**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 17 02:59:58 2011 Feb 17 03:06:00 sevard: tried gronmayer? Feb 17 03:08:01 bah, I wish I could find out what dbus interfaces telepathy-ring was exporting Feb 17 03:10:30 hmmm, doesn't matter, I found out what I wanted to know Feb 17 03:10:39 groanmayer? Feb 17 03:10:42 found them here Feb 17 03:10:43 http://nakkiboso.com/maemofuse/ Feb 17 03:10:47 what's groanmayer? Feb 17 03:11:21 Its clear that Maemo will NEVER be able to use ofono in place of the closed telephony stack Feb 17 03:11:33 so ofono is not the answer for cell broadcast Feb 17 03:19:26 jonwil: why not? Feb 17 03:22:06 there are too many closed components that talk to the current telephony stack (even for just calls and SMS which are the bits we would want to replace with ofono) Feb 17 03:24:13 that's exactly the problem. you can't replace one closed blob, they seem to be all connected to all, in several undocumented ways Feb 17 03:28:21 other than telepathy-ring (which would need to be replaced), the things using the call interface are bluetoothd, intellisyncd, libcodelockui.so, libconnui_cell.so, libicd_network_gprs.so, librtcom-call-ui.so, librtcom-notification-ui.so, sscd, module-nokia-voice.so, libsystemuiplugin_devlock.so and libsystemuiplugin_emergency.so. SMS is being used by sms-manager, libcpcherry.so and cherry. Feb 17 03:29:55 hello, do you know any good lockscreen widgets? Feb 17 03:33:19 nuke the cherry bullshit! Feb 17 03:34:09 We cant nuke nodule-nokia-voice.so or libtrcom-call-ui.so Feb 17 03:37:04 oh wow Feb 17 03:37:05 cherry, justcherry Feb 17 03:37:32 i didn't know that pressing the power button twice will create a slide mode screen unlock Feb 17 03:38:55 what would need to be done is: 1.Identify any interfaces exposed by maemo telepathy-ring that are not exported by meego telepathy-ring. Feb 17 03:38:57 2.Identify which blobs use those interfaces. Feb 17 03:38:58 3.If those blobs cant be removed or replaced, modify telepathy-ring to expose those interfaces. (with required changes to ofono to support that) Feb 17 03:39:00 4.identify the call and SMS interfaces used by the other binary blobs Feb 17 03:39:08 depends, once again on /etc/mce/mce.ini Feb 17 03:39:27 (slidelock) Feb 17 03:40:22 5.If those blobs cant be removed or replaced, implement the needed call and SMS interfaces somehow Feb 17 03:40:23 6.Once thats covered, you would be able to replace csd-sms and csd-call with a build of ofono built to just do SMS and calls Feb 17 03:41:07 but yeah its a fair whack of work to pull that off Feb 17 03:43:17 on my n810 how can I run a command as root on boot? Feb 17 03:44:10 And more importantly, until it's 'done' - it doesn't work at all Feb 17 03:52:44 It would be easier to just reverse engineer and 1:1 clone libsms, libcsd-sms, libcscall and libcsd-call Feb 17 03:52:47 and then modify those Feb 17 03:53:30 so there's /etc/inittab which sets a default run level of 2 Feb 17 03:53:39 then there's /etc/rc2.d/ Feb 17 03:53:55 which holds a bunch of the same scripts, but they're named S[num][name] Feb 17 03:54:15 is this where i can put some commands to run at boot? Feb 17 03:54:28 how can i ensure that the wireless comes up before my command runs? Feb 17 04:13:26 woot. Feb 17 04:13:27 found it Feb 17 04:13:51 /etc/network/if-up.d Feb 17 04:57:14 sevard you should use event.d Feb 17 05:22:04 mooooorning Feb 17 05:22:32 Sc0rpius: so, what about perl 5.8.4 in scratchbox? :) Feb 17 05:29:54 well I actually had to modify some things Feb 17 05:30:37 SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/perl:/usr/bin/dh_clean Feb 17 05:30:52 debhelper tools are also wrapped Feb 17 05:31:14 and scratchbox, at least mine, uses 5, and libperl-dbi needs 7 Feb 17 05:31:25 meh Feb 17 05:31:29 it compiles, but some tests fails, because threads in 5.8.3 are weird Feb 17 05:31:38 so it doesn't build the package, since some tests fails Feb 17 05:31:39 is it possible to ignore /usr/bin/* ? Feb 17 05:32:04 not needed, with those two is more than enough Feb 17 05:32:30 the problem is multithreaded perl 5.8.3 Feb 17 05:32:35 at least for me Feb 17 05:32:44 no wait. Feb 17 05:33:03 i built it on builder. Feb 17 05:33:10 I know there's a way to disable multithreaded functionality Feb 17 05:33:26 it builds in 5.8.4, but it will never work in a N900 Feb 17 05:33:31 only in scratchbox x86 Feb 17 05:33:54 i see Feb 17 05:34:10 so, how did you prevent 5.8.4? Feb 17 05:34:23 well I guess you can update your perl in your N900 to 5.8.4 Feb 17 05:34:58 my /usr/bin/perl is 5.8.3, with the SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE takes that one Feb 17 05:36:24 well, without ignore, i was getting x86 perl Feb 17 05:37:00 without ignore you take the host perl Feb 17 05:37:05 yep Feb 17 05:37:26 one from /scratchbox Feb 17 05:37:38 and what version is /usr/bin/perl? Feb 17 05:37:42 anyway you'll always get an x86 perl since you can't run ARM executables in builder, but it creates ARM things when it's supposed to Feb 17 05:37:56 i can't? oh really? Feb 17 05:38:11 builder doesn't run QEMU to build Feb 17 05:38:19 my /usr/bin/perl is 5.8.3 Feb 17 05:38:30 that's not a problem though (running perl in x86) Feb 17 05:38:48 *** You are using a perl configured with threading enabled. Feb 17 05:38:51 that's my current problem Feb 17 05:39:36 t/35thrclone..............FAILED tests 12-44 Feb 17 05:40:25 a dirty way is to modify those tests and skip them Feb 17 05:40:35 but the professional way should be disabling multithreading in perl Feb 17 05:42:57 actually the source says: Feb 17 05:43:12 # skip seems broken with threads (5.8.3) Feb 17 05:44:09 let's see if skipping that one works Feb 17 05:53:18 all tests are ok when building on n900. i still thing builder environment is screwed up. is it possible to build deb locally and upload it to builder? Feb 17 05:53:32 no Feb 17 05:53:37 that's not possible Feb 17 05:53:42 builder has to build it Feb 17 05:54:17 I don't really think /usr/bin/perl on builder is 5.8.4. No way Feb 17 05:54:25 but I did something different, because bad experience using bash: Feb 17 05:55:03 http://pastie.org/1573448 Feb 17 05:55:29 export VARIABLE=thing inside a script never works for me Feb 17 05:55:41 VARIABLE=thing; export VARIABLE inside a script is what always worked for me Feb 17 05:55:45 in the CLI, doesn't matter. Feb 17 05:56:12 so... that changes anything? Feb 17 05:57:13 anyway it died with a NullP and created a core file heh Feb 17 05:57:21 -rw-r--r-- 1 naikel naikel 5795840 Feb 16 21:46 qemu_perl_20110216-214631_7407.core Feb 17 05:57:35 let's see without the ignore Feb 17 06:06:43 you know what? Feb 17 06:06:55 i think that i built it correctly Feb 17 06:07:17 except one minor thing, deb dependency Feb 17 06:07:21 well I can't compile it because that debhelper >= 7 is giving me SERIOUS problems Feb 17 06:07:40 it is done with dh_perl and what it does is parses output of dpkg -s perl Feb 17 06:07:47 if it depends in some perl module 5.8.4 then it's not building correctly Feb 17 06:08:03 i don't think it does Feb 17 06:08:27 Sc0rpius: what version do you get for "dpkg -s perl | grep Version" Feb 17 06:09:31 Version: 5.8.3-3osso11+0m5 Feb 17 06:09:41 and I should have osso13+0m5 but I'm lazy to upgrade Feb 17 06:10:42 i also have osso11 on n900, so let's pretend that osso13 doesn't exist :) Feb 17 06:12:35 meeeh... where it gets 5.8.4 then? Feb 17 06:14:22 I know it sounds dumb but you should try the assign and export in different lines Feb 17 06:15:37 Sc0rpius: according to https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libdbi-perl_1.605-1maemo1/armel.build.log.OK.txt it really used /usr/bin/perl Feb 17 06:16:26 Sc0rpius: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libdbi-perl_1.605-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt that's how it behaved with no ignore/path Feb 17 06:16:34 oh it doesn't matter, if you don't set the SBOX ignore /usr/bin/perl is still mapped Feb 17 06:17:14 well, that build was much slower Feb 17 06:17:31 i mean, the one with ignore Feb 17 06:18:48 Sc0rpius: what "which dh_perl" gives you in scratchbox? Feb 17 06:20:20 /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/dh_perl Feb 17 06:21:13 and that's a problem for me since the debhelper is 5 Feb 17 06:22:03 and do you have /usr/bin/dh_perl ? Feb 17 06:22:47 yeah Feb 17 06:22:51 Sc0rpius: could you please pastebin contents of /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/dh_perl ? Feb 17 06:22:52 I can use it if I ignore it too Feb 17 06:23:08 * slonopotamus tried ignoring /usr/bin/dh_perl Feb 17 06:23:15 *tries Feb 17 06:23:27 http://pastie.org/1573509 Feb 17 06:25:31 and that thingie somehow results in 5.8.4... Feb 17 06:25:58 dh_perl: Sorry, but 5 is the highest compatibility level supported by this debhelper. Feb 17 06:26:00 I'm still getting that Feb 17 06:26:05 and I have debhelper 7 Feb 17 06:26:41 weird :) Feb 17 06:27:22 export SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/perl:/usr/bin/dh_perl:/usr/bin/dh Feb 17 06:27:24 let's see Feb 17 06:27:37 ok now that tries to build the package Feb 17 06:28:49 * slonopotamus really wants export SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=damnit_everything Feb 17 06:29:29 well everything will fail on me until I ignore every /usr/bin/dh_* Feb 17 06:29:34 there's a way to do that Feb 17 06:30:04 unset SBOX_REDIRECT_FROM_DIRS Feb 17 06:30:07 done Feb 17 06:30:08 now let's see Feb 17 06:30:56 heh Feb 17 06:31:00 now it's a mess :) Feb 17 06:31:10 well I give up and it's 2 am actually Feb 17 06:31:36 hehe :) Feb 17 06:31:36 g'night Feb 17 06:32:00 http://mat.exon.name/logs/maemo nice reading :) Feb 17 06:32:01 nite Feb 17 06:53:19 is it possible to disabe "scratchbox-provided dependencies"? Feb 17 06:56:00 Sc0rpius: craaaap. i found where 5.8.4 comes from. that dh_perl that you pasted. look at first line. Feb 17 06:58:42 Sc0rpius: and dh_perl substitutes perl version that it runs with **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 17 07:32:21 2011 Feb 17 07:39:44 unfortunatly libsms is a complicated library and I dont have the skills to clone it (or csd-sms) Feb 17 07:45:02 jonwil, iirc someone got ofono running on the N900 Feb 17 07:45:23 Its possible if you throw away the dialer, messaging app and a bunch more Feb 17 07:45:25 so maybe work on getting that integrated with the current set instead of trying to decypher the stuff Feb 17 07:45:39 well you can replace the dialer Feb 17 07:45:44 yeah true Feb 17 07:45:58 the messaging app you just need a new frontend(the backend is telepathy and iirc open)... Feb 17 07:46:13 it would require a rethink and rework(or borrowing from MeeGo)... Feb 17 07:46:27 but it's probably easier than reverse engineering all the closed stuff... Feb 17 07:47:07 In any case I doubt every feature worked properly given all the dependancies on the telephony stack from things like intellisyncd, module-nokia-voice.so, libicd_network_gprs.so, libconnui_cell.so and others Feb 17 07:48:33 it may " Feb 17 07:48:52 may "work" in the sense that you can make calls Feb 17 07:49:09 but so many of the little things will break that its not a viable option Feb 17 07:49:55 frankly I'd be happy with MeeGo if the handset UX would be like maemo5 or even the older m4 UX... Feb 17 07:50:46 meego isn't an option for most people simply because there are many many features maemo has the meego does not Feb 17 07:51:52 jonwil, hmmm like? Feb 17 07:52:10 well there is no support for SIM PIN in meego yet. Feb 17 07:52:12 No GPS. Feb 17 07:52:30 ok... I'd be happy with a completly disable no-power use GPS anyway Feb 17 07:52:36 the SIM PIN stuff... ugh... Feb 17 07:52:37 annoying Feb 17 07:52:46 how are rest of the apps, like email, browser etc Feb 17 07:52:51 there are just too many holes to make meego-on-n900 any good Feb 17 07:52:55 at least from what I have read Feb 17 07:53:03 hell I'd like proper user support i.e. login+pw... Feb 17 07:53:14 I haven't tested meego since 1.1 as it was unusable as sdhc install Feb 17 07:53:22 you would need to talk to the gurus in meego-arm for the minute details of whats missing Feb 17 07:53:40 but its just not an option for most N900 users Feb 17 07:53:45 hmm meego worked on the sdhc fine for me... Feb 17 07:53:47 after a reboot Feb 17 07:54:01 and neither is replacing the telephony stack with ofono Feb 17 07:54:21 ruskie, yeah it took like 30-60 seconds to start an app when run from class 4 SD Feb 17 07:54:24 our only hope is that nokia can release some code and headers or that someone can reverse engineer things Feb 17 07:54:31 hmm I think I had a class 6 Feb 17 07:54:43 and solve the issues in the telephony stack Feb 17 07:54:49 so was actually running... Feb 17 07:54:52 but still way to broken Feb 17 07:55:01 jonwil, well it would be nice... Feb 17 07:55:06 but I doubt it will ever happen Feb 17 07:55:44 would be helpful if they release the code to the council with an NDA and the council then extends that NDA to devs that want to fix it... Feb 17 07:55:58 or any such way... Feb 17 07:57:14 well one suggestion was to have someone who works with nokia, has access to code to review in preparation for a release and can also fix bugs in code that Nokia is unwilling to release (e.g. 3rd party IP, legal reasons, not wanting to share sensitive algorithms) Feb 17 07:57:26 I cant remember details but I think someone put their hand up Feb 17 08:01:30 I doubt it gets done, it seems anyone who could make decision like that at Nokia and had active interest in open source is gone or leaving soon Feb 17 08:09:13 Hi! Can someone please point me to the correct thread regarding the issue wherein SMS conversations are not saved to el-v1.db. Feb 17 08:10:21 erm... use the search thingy? Feb 17 08:10:26 on tmo... Feb 17 08:31:57 ruskie: I have already done that before, and the results I'm getting so far do not propose a reproducible solution. Feb 17 08:46:44 observed n900 used price range on ebay.de last week: 150-290 euro - median 220-250 Feb 17 08:47:09 closer to 250 Feb 17 08:47:23 damn Feb 17 08:47:27 I paid 500 for it Feb 17 08:47:29 lol Feb 17 08:47:41 that's a pretty good resale price Feb 17 08:48:01 i bought mine for $500usd in november 2009... selling it for 250eur now is very decent Feb 17 08:49:08 i bought mine in november for 200eur from my operator Feb 17 08:49:18 normal price arround here was 600eur :/ Feb 17 08:52:45 damn nokia Feb 17 08:52:53 so what is the real price of this thing? Feb 17 08:53:03 cannot fluctuate between 200EUR and 600EUR Feb 17 08:53:18 I got mine for $325 about 6 months ago. Feb 17 08:53:20 Used Feb 17 08:53:30 the price is the higher one Feb 17 08:53:34 200eur but with contract Feb 17 08:53:42 without a contract it was 600 Feb 17 08:54:28 yeah $300, refurbished, in October Feb 17 08:54:49 Amazon has it new for $349 Feb 17 08:54:56 so that's the priceof it. Feb 17 08:56:24 oh with contract Feb 17 08:56:31 I see I bought it without it Feb 17 09:03:47 iirc someone said there was a 0GBP w/ contract deal too Feb 17 09:04:00 of course, if you're paying in GBP, then your contract costs suck :) Feb 17 09:05:24 i had a contract before my n900 so nothing changed and i got myself a cool mobile computer :) Feb 17 09:10:36 * jonwil wonders what the license on the certificates in http://gitorious.org/maemo-5-certificate-manager/maemo-security-certman/trees/master/etc/certs is Feb 17 09:10:47 * jonwil wonders if its the same LGPL license as the rest of the code in that repo Feb 17 09:11:31 * jonwil still cant find a license quote for libosso-graphics-game-chess either :( Feb 17 09:11:51 I would assume that anything on gitorious has some sort of valid open source license Feb 17 09:12:54 I think in the absence of any other license statement, it would be difficult for Nokia to argue that those files are not LGPL Feb 17 09:13:05 osso-graphics-game-chess on the other hand Feb 17 09:13:19 in the absence of any notation otherwise, the project is listed as GPL and LGPL Feb 17 09:13:43 so it's valid to assume any code in a project labeled as GPL/LGPL as being such unless otherwise noted Feb 17 09:14:07 That means that FreeSmartPhone can use those certificates in their N900 port :) Feb 17 09:14:50 ow those Feb 17 09:15:04 you can get those from variosu certificate bundles in distros Feb 17 09:15:11 or you can assemble them on your own Feb 17 09:16:26 All I know is that there is talk about needing specific certificates to talk to the Nokia SUPL server for AGPS. And since the only place the AGPS SUPL server could could be getting certificates from is the ones in maemosec-certman, its good to know that any secret key or certificate is in fact free for FSO to use Feb 17 09:17:07 for their AGPS implementation Feb 17 09:18:06 i think google runs an AGPS server too... not sure what the restrictions are Feb 17 09:27:59 what's freesmartphone? Feb 17 09:34:42 FreeSmartPhone.org Feb 17 09:34:56 ask in #opemoko-cdevel for more details about FSO on N900 Feb 17 09:41:15 hi I didn't my n900 os until now the current version is 3.2010.02-8.003 and I want to know how can I update my phone and what is new version ? also is it possible to install megoo ? Feb 17 09:41:40 ~flashing Feb 17 09:41:41 rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 17 09:42:18 meego is not for production use Feb 17 09:42:24 meego is in alpha stage Feb 17 09:42:32 aha Feb 17 09:42:34 latest official version is PR1.3 20.2010.36-2 Feb 17 09:42:45 megoo is better than meamo ? Feb 17 09:42:49 **maemo Feb 17 09:42:52 nope Feb 17 09:42:59 maybe in the future Feb 17 09:43:02 but now is worst Feb 17 09:43:26 ok . and what should I backup and what things removed from my phone ? Feb 17 09:43:46 everything Feb 17 09:43:51 not even battery loading works Feb 17 09:43:55 just don't install the thing Feb 17 09:44:30 jatt: for example my home ? and etc ? Feb 17 09:44:44 jatt: how can I get the list of software installed? Feb 17 09:44:50 I wouldn't suggest replacing maemo with meego directly. You can run it via microSD and such just to tinker around with it if you are desperate Feb 17 09:45:39 don't install meego just don't do it Feb 17 09:45:57 no i want to install maemo Feb 17 09:46:21 oh then everything is fine Feb 17 09:46:38 there is a backup utility in the n900 use it Feb 17 09:46:39 but I want to know what thing should I backup (for example home is very large ) and how can I get list of software installed ? Feb 17 09:46:51 in a terminal type dpkg -l Feb 17 09:46:57 that will give you a list of installed software Feb 17 09:47:22 there's two ways baackup, one is to use osso-backup which comes as standard with the device. It only downloads debs from the repositories that you originally have not any other 3rd party repositories, etc. Then there's backupmenu v2 which can backup your entire device albeit that requires multiboot Feb 17 09:48:08 psycho_oreos: I should install it ? Feb 17 09:48:22 backupmenu v2 Feb 17 09:49:34 mintux, its entirely up to you. If you have legacy apps that you want to retain working and if the latest PR1.3 doesn't suit your taste you can restore it. Plus backupmenu v2 does more backups from other places if need be, such as /home/user and /home/user/MyDocs.. places that osso-backup wouldn't touch (definitely not /home/user/MyDocs) Feb 17 09:50:03 and there's two ways of updating, one is OTA and the other is flashing Feb 17 09:50:15 but then, touching mydocs isnt needed for a reflash Feb 17 09:50:31 not unless you also flash emmc image Feb 17 09:50:55 ok Feb 17 09:51:11 i want to download firmware but I got this list Feb 17 09:51:21 http://up.iranblog.com/images/bozf3xc8sdnk5akz3ww.png Feb 17 09:51:34 which one of them should I download ? Feb 17 09:51:38 the flashing wiki page notes its a two stage process. One is to flash the emmc then you flash the fiasco Feb 17 09:51:47 pr1.3 global Feb 17 09:54:04 nid0: PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2 ? Feb 17 09:54:28 yes Feb 17 09:55:00 ok and this version when released ? Feb 17 09:56:10 WUT backmenu requires multiboot? NONSENSE Feb 17 09:57:28 *nothing* reqires multiboot, multiboot is deprecated, and just nitdroid folks are still using it because they don't get it Feb 17 10:04:38 can they run android from within a running maemo? Feb 17 10:05:55 they can use uBoot for sure Feb 17 10:08:40 s/can/could and should be able to/ Feb 17 10:08:40 DocScrutinizer meant: they could and should be able to use uBoot for sure Feb 17 10:12:13 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/16/nokia_had_choices_but_couldnt_take_them/ Feb 17 10:17:25 hindsight is a wonderful thing... Feb 17 10:18:07 SpeedEvil: looks like a fair summary to me Feb 17 10:18:24 one of the few reviews that even mentions maemo/770 Feb 17 10:18:29 or retrospectives Feb 17 10:22:46 is it possible to reach the peak points in charging the battery on usb port? Feb 17 10:25:15 'peak points'? Feb 17 10:25:50 the maximum battery charge Feb 17 10:26:01 yes Feb 17 10:26:11 It just takes a little longer. Feb 17 10:26:19 "changing the microSD card causes WP7 to restore factory defaults" <-- WTF??? Feb 17 10:26:58 SpeedEvil, do you need a software? nokia wtvr? Feb 17 10:28:03 interesting... so not much has changed since windows mobile... "Opinion in my company where we have several win7 phone users is that it is rubbish. Missing major functions, drops calls, crashes all the time. They all want different phones" Feb 17 10:28:33 :/ Feb 17 10:28:43 compengi: ? Feb 17 10:28:53 compengi: No software is needed to charge the battery Feb 17 10:32:47 s/no/no special additional/ Feb 17 10:32:52 SpeedEvil, weird, i've plugged in the phone on the usb, at the end the phone showed that it was charged on 95% from hal-device output, i plugged it on the adapter and it continues charging :/ Feb 17 10:33:00 continued* Feb 17 10:33:27 compengi: on replugging it always restarts charging Feb 17 10:33:52 95% from hal is as good as it gets afaik Feb 17 10:34:29 aha Feb 17 10:35:13 and there is no more accurate way to check it? Feb 17 10:35:34 Not with the standard software. Feb 17 10:46:03 SpeedEvil: great article, too bad they misspelled 'n900' Feb 17 10:47:48 most likely just a typo for the missed n, they got it right on the media player image caption Feb 17 10:54:10 http://forums.theregister.co.uk/post/987515 Feb 17 10:56:29 hehe Feb 17 10:57:52 true Feb 17 10:58:27 that corporate attention deficit hyperactivity disorder was the reason I left Nokia Feb 17 10:58:57 n900 wasn't missing much... :( Feb 17 10:59:35 you talk like it's not there anymore Feb 17 11:00:14 from nokia's perspective, it isnt Feb 17 11:00:43 I love the next post. Feb 17 11:02:58 hi there Feb 17 11:04:09 is it normal that the kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo46_armel.deb occupies just 1.9 MB? Feb 17 11:04:16 it seems very light.. Feb 17 11:04:58 http://forums.theregister.co.uk/post/987634 :) Feb 17 11:06:19 http://forums.theregister.co.uk/post/987539 isn't bad either Feb 17 11:07:06 I must say I do often like the fact that I work for a small company Feb 17 11:07:26 "hey, what about doing this?" "sure, give it a shot" is about as hard as it gets Feb 17 11:10:15 with the introduction of WP7. you think Nokia will drop support for n900 / maemo completely? Feb 17 11:11:16 Kowalczyk: how could they drop it even more? they would have to invent new kind of concept for dropping :) Feb 17 11:11:26 haha :D Feb 17 11:11:44 they could visit every n900 owner and smash the phones Feb 17 11:12:01 wow that'd be a honour Feb 17 11:12:41 N900 is still the only fun phone for me :/ Feb 17 11:13:10 if we could just get a commitment to *one* successor device Feb 17 11:13:25 pupnik: same here.. Feb 17 11:13:55 pupnik, what about android phones? Feb 17 11:14:04 the big shame is with the seeming lack of any n900 successor anytime soon I had been seriously thinking of picking up an e7, as i've really liked all my past e-series and communicator devices Feb 17 11:14:07 i have an android tablet... so far, not fun. Feb 17 11:14:08 Nokia can have my N900 when they pry it from my cold dead hands (or when they give me a free replacement of a superior phone) Feb 17 11:14:13 :( Feb 17 11:14:25 what I mean then... what will happen to n900 I mean? Feb 17 11:14:28 but following last week, buying a symbian device seems like a dumb idea Feb 17 11:14:33 a probable meego device, I wonder what will they stuff inside it, probably fill it with inferior parts compared to their upcoming WP7 phone.. make meego act like winME for the springboard financial boost Feb 17 11:15:12 s/the financial/their financial/ Feb 17 11:15:12 i'd be real happy with omap3640 and 512MB Feb 17 11:15:38 I thought nokia did commit to one MeeGo device this year... Feb 17 11:15:55 i hope that device has a cellphone radio Feb 17 11:15:57 yeah they did say that but there's no indication what it'll be Feb 17 11:16:08 they've axed the great n9 Feb 17 11:16:18 no Feb 17 11:16:29 Kowalczyk: nothing will happen to n900 as far as nokia is concerned, I don't think they produce them anymore and it would be a surprise to get any updates Feb 17 11:16:38 its probably a good indication they probably won't create something equivalent or better than the specs of the n9 Feb 17 11:16:39 no? Feb 17 11:16:56 theyve axed *a hardware variant* of what might have become the n9 Feb 17 11:17:05 Trewas: ok.... but aas long as maemo lives on it will be okay.. regarding packages and so on Feb 17 11:17:20 I hope:d hehe Feb 17 11:17:53 nid0, you could do that at nokia too, I've heard about lots of interesting expirements. it's just that things would never get past engineer level because someone above thought it would mess with their bonuses or something and cancel the project Feb 17 11:18:17 Trewas, community SSU ;) Feb 17 11:18:19 and to fill the new n9 with the supposedly inferior stuff? Feb 17 11:18:23 jarkkom_: yeah thats the difference though, i get the "sure, give it a shot", try it, and if it works, deploy it Feb 17 11:19:04 there are serious fixed costs to releasing any phone though - case moulding, production facility, certification, channel distribution Feb 17 11:19:10 iPhone next then:d hehe :D Feb 17 11:21:13 I wouldn't consider about buying iphone unless there's no android devices that could satisfy me. But then again I'd choose iphone anyday over WP7 if I were forced to choose either of those Feb 17 11:21:20 hi Feb 17 11:21:34 yeah but with either you're basically caged in the role of a consumer Feb 17 11:21:38 does the maemo built-in skype caller have video? Feb 17 11:21:40 a monkey pushing at the screen Feb 17 11:21:40 cause i just tried Feb 17 11:21:52 tbh theres nothing wrong with wp7, the amount of bashing it gets just because it has a "microsoft" tag on it from people who've never even touched it is kinda tiresome Feb 17 11:21:52 and though i could see myself, my companions at the other end of the line couldn't Feb 17 11:22:04 psycho_oreos: same her.. rather iPhone than WP7 Feb 17 11:22:06 El_Angelo: it does Feb 17 11:22:11 or you could look at blackberries and say there's nothing wrong with them either Feb 17 11:22:11 and I dont want an HTC. I had one.. so no Feb 17 11:22:20 imagine that E7 with 800x480, omap3 @ 1ghz and 512MB ram Feb 17 11:22:25 nid0: i need anything special? Feb 17 11:22:37 sad pupnik Feb 17 11:22:47 El_Angelo: no, if you've got the camera button available, pressed it, and can see yourself they should be able to see you too Feb 17 11:22:59 weird Feb 17 11:23:06 Kowalczyk, glad that you agree :) then again, android would be a hell lot better if they took a different approach to their linux environment Feb 17 11:23:13 pupnik: e7 is a heluva sexy phone Feb 17 11:23:24 pupnik: on a hardware side Feb 17 11:23:25 i know wazd ... beautiful Feb 17 11:23:47 for me, the most beautiful phone ever Feb 17 11:24:05 e7 would be fine software wise too if nokia hadnt just killed all possibility of further third-party development last week Feb 17 11:24:06 but arm 1136 cpu Feb 17 11:24:13 pupnik: yeah, looks like it for me too Feb 17 11:24:16 >_< Feb 17 11:24:27 I don't like WP7 phone to have a `windows' key. That just reminds me of how they made literally the entire PC market keyboards to have that `windows' key. What if you don't use windows on the phone? tough luck, suck shit and die? Feb 17 11:24:57 how is this any different to the buttons android phones have to have? Feb 17 11:25:04 psycho_oreos: remember that nokia can do with wp7 whatever it wants Feb 17 11:25:15 and then there was that news of them giving credits to chevronWP7 and not providing a native alternative OS installer Feb 17 11:25:22 psycho_oreos: no restrictions at all Feb 17 11:25:30 android doesn't have a dedicated android button Feb 17 11:25:40 how about they release a wp7 phone and we get an unofficial maemo for it Feb 17 11:25:52 wazd, correct and we as consumers will see what devices suits us Feb 17 11:25:55 unofficial meego .. Feb 17 11:26:08 psycho_oreos: what difference does the logo on the button make? Feb 17 11:26:25 android dictates required buttons, wp7 does the same, but only wp7 is lame because of it? Feb 17 11:26:40 nid0, why must they place a logo of windows on it? Feb 17 11:26:49 nid0: dunno, but I'm talking about possibilities to remove it if they'd like it Feb 17 11:27:06 android doesn't dictate that it must require an android button with a symbol of android Feb 17 11:27:26 guys is it normal that the kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo46_armel.deb occupies just 1.9 MB? Feb 17 11:27:30 psycho_oreos: it's basically just a home button Feb 17 11:27:32 apple doesn't do it with their iphone/ipad why must microsoft do it? proud-ness? Feb 17 11:27:41