**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 18 02:59:57 2011
Feb 18 03:00:22 <pupnik> nice GeneralAntilles - if i sell a N900 i'll use that as the product pic
Feb 18 03:12:40 <apol_> can somebody tell me on what repository can I find liblzma1?
Feb 18 03:14:17 <GeneralAntilles> apol: http://maemo.org/packages/view/liblzma1/
Feb 18 03:15:03 <apol> so extras-devel?
Feb 18 03:16:23 <apol> awesome :D thanks
Feb 18 03:16:24 <ShadowJK> and extras-testing
Feb 18 03:31:17 <newbie007> does any one know if it is possible/ feasible to put maemo on a nook. color?
Feb 18 03:33:16 <newbie007> thiss nook thing has android. in order to install notepad i need to grant location aware security setting
Feb 18 03:34:21 <newbie007> sorry cannot type weell i.m using a" "nook
Feb 18 03:35:13 <rm_work> lol cause the notepad needs to be able to track you down in case you type something that triggers a homeland security alert
Feb 18 03:35:21 <rm_work> (assuming you're in the US)
Feb 18 03:35:51 <rm_work> otherwise, s/homeland security/secret police/
Feb 18 03:36:07 <rm_work> it's a synonym really
Feb 18 03:36:51 <newbie007> it is rather creepy. if i were at a mall i would ask for his home address to use a pen
Feb 18 03:37:26 <newbie007> n.t.  i woulddnn.t
Feb 18 03:37:51 <newbie007> it is rather creepy. if i were at a mall i would ask for his home address to use a pen
Feb 18 03:38:26 <newbie007> this android os scares me and i want mt freedom back
Feb 18 03:38:39 <rm_work> lol
Feb 18 03:40:20 <newbie007> tinstall the androd OS I HAd to tell them twice - don.t. upload my gps
Feb 18 03:41:34 <newbie007> i mean thanks for asking. but no way and stay away from my family
Feb 18 03:42:41 <newbie007> if android were person it would be a creepy old man stairing at people in a park
Feb 18 03:43:29 <newbie007> protect the homeland!
Feb 18 03:44:33 <newbie007> lets hire the old man in the park to go through our bags to keep us" safe.
Feb 18 03:45:40 <newbie007> maemo is like a guy in a park that if you said hi to je would probably say hi back
Feb 18 03:46:18 <lolcat> newbie007: Lol
Feb 18 03:46:32 <lolcat> What is the easiest way to install meego?
Feb 18 03:55:43 <korhojoa> lolcat: read the wiki
Feb 18 03:55:48 <lolcat> Wiki?
Feb 18 03:55:55 <korhojoa> wiki.
Feb 18 04:01:07 <pupnik> 04:33 < newbie007> thiss nook thing has android. in order to install notepad  i need to grant location aware security setting
Feb 18 04:01:10 <pupnik> ha ha ha
Feb 18 04:01:49 * pupnik pictures users wrapping their nooks in tinfoil
Feb 18 04:02:34 <chx> imagine angry users throwing their crappy ereader out the window
Feb 18 04:02:46 * chx is getting a Sony as he is fed up with the nook.
Feb 18 04:03:32 <pupnik> i have an arthos a70s which can run angstrom and probably meego
Feb 18 04:03:38 <pupnik> *archos
Feb 18 04:04:30 <chx> I will have a Sony that runs for weeks without charging and has a big eInk Pearl screen. Win.
Feb 18 04:33:36 <comawhite> I am sshing in my phone. I can't find the .sounds folder
Feb 18 04:36:21 <Venemo> comawhite: 'cd /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/'
Feb 18 04:37:17 <comawhite> yeah I get "Could not enter folder fish://root@192.168.1.109/home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/
Feb 18 04:37:32 <Venemo> interesting
Feb 18 04:37:54 <comawhite> yeah my usb port on my n900 is fucked up, so I need to find another way to add music on the phone
Feb 18 04:38:03 <Venemo> mhm
Feb 18 04:38:05 <korhojoa> comawhite: heh, same here
Feb 18 04:38:11 <Venemo> you can add music to any other folder btw.
Feb 18 04:38:16 <korhojoa> how come it doesn't show?
Feb 18 04:38:20 <comawhite> nfc
Feb 18 04:38:28 <comawhite> I logined in as root :S
Feb 18 04:38:31 <Venemo> korhojoa: because stuff beginning with '.' are hidden in linux
Feb 18 04:38:35 <korhojoa> what's fish?
Feb 18 04:38:43 <comawhite> ssh login via kde :P
Feb 18 04:38:58 <korhojoa> Venemo: i know that, i meant the folder, why he can't access it
Feb 18 04:39:16 <Venemo> korhojoa: I have no idea, sorry
Feb 18 04:39:20 <korhojoa> comawhite: can you access it on the device?
Feb 18 04:39:33 <korhojoa> if you can, just rsync it off using the device
Feb 18 04:40:26 <comawhite> some folder called Nokia N900/Audio clips/
Feb 18 04:41:09 <pahartik> korhojoa: Is "/home/user/MyDocs" mounted?
Feb 18 04:42:22 <korhojoa> pahartik: it's not my device
Feb 18 04:42:32 <comawhite> pahartik, it's my device
Feb 18 04:43:21 <korhojoa> well then
Feb 18 04:43:26 <pahartik> comawhite: Is "/home/user/MyDocs" mounted?
Feb 18 04:43:27 <comawhite> now it's showing
Feb 18 04:43:29 <korhojoa> i'll leave you to figure it out
Feb 18 04:43:33 <johnx> does fish show any folders?
Feb 18 04:43:40 <comawhite> i got it working now
Feb 18 04:43:44 <korhojoa> i have to go, flight attendants want me to turn off my phone
Feb 18 04:43:45 <comawhite> I don't know what I did
Feb 18 04:43:48 <korhojoa> comawhite: great :D
Feb 18 04:43:51 <comawhite> korhojoa, hehe
Feb 18 04:43:53 <comawhite> thanks guys
Feb 18 04:44:12 <korhojoa> remember, #maemo is your friend
Feb 18 04:44:20 <comawhite> :D
Feb 18 04:44:48 <comawhite> too bad the ssh speed sucks balls
Feb 18 04:49:11 <StanStill> hello
Feb 18 04:49:39 <StanStill> anyone in here own a Nokia N900?
Feb 18 04:50:59 <ieatlint> i think at least one person in here does
Feb 18 04:51:23 <pahartik> StanStill: Yes
Feb 18 04:54:02 <krayon> I'd go as far as saying more than one. At least 3.
Feb 18 05:00:21 <Venemo> check this out: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=949457#post949457
Feb 18 05:59:32 <newbie007> greetings, anyone have any idea if maemo could run on a nook color? The specs are similar, both arm  screen is different
Feb 18 06:00:12 <pupnik> Is there a linux distro for nook color?
Feb 18 06:00:35 <newbie007> you can put android on it, it comes with android
Feb 18 06:00:56 <pupnik> Well nobody has ported maemo to another system because much of it is closed
Feb 18 06:01:30 <newbie007> I have heard that it is more closed than open
Feb 18 06:01:45 <RobbieThe1st> That's true with regards to the UI mostly
Feb 18 06:01:47 <pupnik> But http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer  this could run perhaps
Feb 18 06:01:48 <RobbieThe1st> And a few drivers
Feb 18 06:01:59 <newbie007> really I want the repoistories
Feb 18 06:02:32 <RobbieThe1st> Pupnik: I'd try Ubuntu before Mer - I tried loading Mer on an x86 tablet PC with a 1GHZ processor and 1GB of ram. It worked at oh... 1fps.
Feb 18 06:03:06 <pupnik> ok
Feb 18 06:03:15 <RobbieThe1st> Could be simply needing a better OpenGL driver or something... But still, it's not like you'll find one for the Nook most likely
Feb 18 06:03:25 <pupnik> i don't remember mer needing GL
Feb 18 06:04:01 <RobbieThe1st> I don't know if it needs it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's almost required for proper transition support.
Feb 18 06:10:41 <slonopotamus> https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/curl_7.18.2-8lenny4/
Feb 18 06:10:50 <slonopotamus> what's up with it?
Feb 18 06:21:48 <slonopotamus> X-Fade: /\
Feb 18 06:27:47 <krayon> Venemo: That looks awesome!
Feb 18 06:30:06 <krayon> Venemo: Any plans to make the pieces "puzzle" shaped?  Not too difficult I would think and would make it even cooler.
Feb 18 07:53:29 <toadpole> hey anyone using carman on n900?
Feb 18 08:05:57 <khertan> Morning
Feb 18 08:15:55 <pupnik> muhu khertan :)
Feb 18 08:16:57 <lolcat> I can't wait untill I get my new phone subscription!
Feb 18 08:17:01 <khertan> 'lo pupnik
Feb 18 08:17:27 <pupnik> did you see you can get White and Gold n900 cases? )
Feb 18 08:17:36 <khertan> pupnik, i'll try today the last meego 1.1 version on n900 :)
Feb 18 08:17:42 <pupnik> cool
Feb 18 08:18:06 <pupnik> http://www.ecaseshop.com/nokia-n900-housing-replacement-case-shell-white-p-3672.html
Feb 18 08:18:10 <pupnik> imagine a white N900
Feb 18 08:18:42 <khertan> pupnik, i more interested by an n900 with a induction charger
Feb 18 08:18:47 <khertan> like the one on palm pre :)
Feb 18 08:19:54 <lolcat> pupnik: I would like one of those, I lost my stylus :(
Feb 18 08:19:55 <pupnik> that is sexy sure
Feb 18 08:20:01 <khertan> pupnik, but interesting as some parts are missing on my n900 plastic cover :)
Feb 18 08:20:22 <pupnik> i'm pretty sure these are chinese aftermarket copies
Feb 18 08:20:40 <khertan> of course
Feb 18 08:20:43 <pupnik> but it would be very strange to have a white n900
Feb 18 08:21:30 <ds3> much rather have an n900 with a compass
Feb 18 08:21:55 <khertan> pupnik, indeed ... too bad no more maemo summit ... i ll did it :)
Feb 18 08:21:58 <khertan> just for fun
Feb 18 08:21:59 <khertan> :)
Feb 18 08:22:11 <khertan> s/i ll/else i ll
Feb 18 08:22:13 <pupnik> :)
Feb 18 08:22:31 <ds3> has anyone actually built a compass for the N900?
Feb 18 08:22:37 <khertan> and the gold edition : http://www.ecaseshop.com/nokia-n900-housing-faceplate-cover-gold-p-3673.html
Feb 18 08:22:39 <khertan> ;)
Feb 18 08:23:03 <pupnik> bling
Feb 18 08:23:22 <pupnik> you can see the poor moulding / uneven color
Feb 18 08:23:28 <khertan> pupnik, unfortunatly no aluminium one ... will be perfect for overclocking :)
Feb 18 08:23:34 <khertan> pupnik, indeed
Feb 18 08:23:44 <pupnik> which is almost funnier
Feb 18 08:23:56 <pupnik> "how to prevent your n900 from being stolen"
Feb 18 08:24:32 <khertan> pupnik, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfRq_AUnsw0
Feb 18 08:24:34 <lolcat> I want to buy a second phone, some cheap ass shit that I can use with a twin sim. Any suggestions?
Feb 18 08:24:53 <lolcat> I need one with long battery life, for drunken escapades and such
Feb 18 08:25:01 <chem|st> MohammadAG: something of your hildon-home eats up ram after a while, I got no 3rd party widgets running so if you need further testing or logs don't hesitate to gimme some instructions, I am off for the weekend so query me and I will have a look in a few days
Feb 18 08:25:16 <pupnik> ah ty khertan
Feb 18 08:25:39 <pupnik> bling :)
Feb 18 08:25:54 <khertan> pupnik, the author didn't recommand to buy cheap cover ...
Feb 18 08:26:03 <khertan> he say him come from ebay
Feb 18 08:27:05 <khertan> pupnik, but it s still black around the screen
Feb 18 08:27:14 <khertan> and so it s not really beautiful
Feb 18 08:27:53 <pupnik> not totally bad though
Feb 18 08:28:16 <pupnik> anybody have a speaker upgrade?
Feb 18 08:28:37 <pupnik> maybe dremel-out some space and put in n810 speakers?
Feb 18 08:29:15 <khertan> lol
Feb 18 08:29:35 <pupnik> hey if the case + keymat = $19, why not go crazy
Feb 18 08:29:39 <chem|st> how do I search ram mappings of a program again? I am looking at hildon-home attached processes atm and cannot find the bug anymore where the instructions are
Feb 18 08:48:04 <chem|st> can someone have a look into his hildon-home process smaps and tell me how big his libgtk is?
Feb 18 08:48:30 <chem|st> cat /proc/$(pidof hildon-home|cut -d' ' -f1)/smaps > smaps-hildon-home
Feb 18 08:49:02 <chem|st> and what is your percentage of ram usage of hh
Feb 18 08:49:09 <EsEhAr> do we have pulseaudio-alsa package in maemo5 ?
Feb 18 08:49:42 <chem|st> damn locale-archive eats 2MB... what for?
Feb 18 08:49:52 <RobbieThe1st> Um... google it? Or try "apt-cache search" with extras-devel enabled?
Feb 18 08:50:06 <RobbieThe1st> (@EsEhAr)
Feb 18 08:50:33 <EsEhAr> I check but not find
Feb 18 08:50:40 <chem|st> RobbieThe1st: got a sec to pastebin me your smaps?
Feb 18 08:50:54 <RobbieThe1st> Sure, why not
Feb 18 08:51:20 <chem|st> and the percentage of your ram usage of hildon-home would be nice
Feb 18 08:51:53 <EsEhAr> its not even here http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=pulseaudio&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same
Feb 18 08:51:55 <chem|st> o_O locale archive has double entries or eats 4MB...
Feb 18 08:54:55 <RobbieThe1st> http://pastebin.com/kZjpXxp6
Feb 18 08:55:19 <RobbieThe1st> Note, there's two pids for hildon-home; one gave that, the other a much smaller file
Feb 18 08:55:30 <RobbieThe1st> This was the higher PID
Feb 18 08:56:06 <chem|st> RobbieThe1st: my [heap] is 34MB, thanks...
Feb 18 08:56:13 <chem|st> yours 10...
Feb 18 08:57:09 <RobbieThe1st> Huh. Mind you, I only have a few buttons on my desktop; two desktops enabled, and only three widgets(media player, FM transmitter and pedometer)
Feb 18 08:57:59 <chem|st> I got additionaly to you weather and calendar..., and buttons but no widgets
Feb 18 08:58:20 <alterego> media player is my only widget
Feb 18 08:58:36 <chem|st> and calendar and contacts seems to be loaded from hildon-desktop not home
Feb 18 08:58:47 <chem|st> alterego: what is your heap
Feb 18 08:59:32 <alterego> 38M free with 2 xterms open atm
Feb 18 08:59:54 <alterego> With one microb 7M free :D
Feb 18 09:00:21 <chem|st> no the smaps heap shows the max usage of it, not the current
Feb 18 09:00:48 <alterego> under proc meminfo?
Feb 18 09:01:09 <chem|st> cat /proc/$(pidof hildon-home|cut -d' ' -f1)/smaps > smaps-hildon-home
Feb 18 09:01:40 <chem|st> it is one of the first 10 entries with [heap] in the line
Feb 18 09:02:30 <chem|st> .oO(I actualy try to get my head off the edge while waiting on my blood parameters)
Feb 18 09:03:08 <chem|st> even messed up hildon-home from PR1.2 had a max heap of 22MB
Feb 18 09:03:09 <alterego> size 3700kB
Feb 18 09:03:24 <chem|st> for heap?
Feb 18 09:03:33 <alterego> yup
Feb 18 09:03:37 <chem|st> thats awesome
Feb 18 09:03:55 <alterego> says swap 2132kB
Feb 18 09:04:04 <alterego> is that how much is swapped out atm?
Feb 18 09:04:23 <chem|st> at heap it is the max swapped by hh ever
Feb 18 09:04:31 <chem|st> since last start
Feb 18 09:04:37 <alterego> Ah, cool
Feb 18 09:04:50 <chem|st> at least that is what I understand from smaps
Feb 18 09:04:58 <alterego> Right
Feb 18 09:05:26 <chem|st> all other things is the size the size of the loadable module, but does not mean that it needs that much ram when running
Feb 18 09:39:12 <khertan> Seems it ll be time to update my n900 to maemo pr1.3 :)
Feb 18 09:42:14 * pupnik watches the tumbleweeds
Feb 18 10:04:23 <rafal_g> How do I get around adding new client for specific portocol type (eg instead of the default rtcom-messaging-ui) ?
Feb 18 10:04:41 <lolcat> Can I install android from the appstore (or whatever it is called)?
Feb 18 10:06:10 <rafal_g> lolcat: Can't tell if serious or just trolling :|
Feb 18 10:06:43 <lolcat> I am serious
Feb 18 10:06:55 <alterego> You want to install android from Ovi store?
Feb 18 10:07:06 <lolcat> No, the other program installer
Feb 18 10:07:17 <lolcat> Program manager
Feb 18 10:07:27 <alterego> lolcat: well, why don't you read the numerous nitdroid threads ..
Feb 18 10:07:40 <alterego> There are plenty of howtos on howto instrall it ..
Feb 18 10:08:15 <lolcat> Anyone for ubuntu?
Feb 18 10:08:16 <MohammadAG> there's also a howto on howto read a howto :P
Feb 18 10:08:21 <lolcat> Do I need acomputer?
Feb 18 10:08:39 <alterego> lolcat: I don't F*cking know, read the howto
Feb 18 10:09:01 <alterego> You will more than likely need a Linux running computer ..
Feb 18 10:09:14 <alterego> But don't ask questions that can all be answered in the installation howto.
Feb 18 10:09:25 <alterego> Which you've clearly not read ..
Feb 18 10:15:11 <lolcat> Hmm
Feb 18 10:17:22 <lardman> morning all
Feb 18 10:17:48 <lardman> just a quickie, what does one need to put in a pro file to use qtmobility-12 ?
Feb 18 10:18:27 <lardman> I seem to remember it was something like tack -12 onto the end of the names of the packages to be pulled in
Feb 18 10:20:35 <rafal_g> What's the best way of gettin QtMobility 1.1 on N900?
Feb 18 10:20:51 <alterego> apt-get install
Feb 18 10:20:54 <lardman> install it from Extras-devel?
Feb 18 10:22:56 <rafal_g> extras-devel you say? I'll have a look
Feb 18 10:23:27 <lolcat> http://wiki.nitdroid.com/index.php?title=N900-Autoinstaller
Feb 18 10:23:31 <lolcat> Is it that easy?
Feb 18 10:23:56 <alterego> lolcat: really the wrong place to ask, follow the instructions.
Feb 18 10:27:59 <rafal_g> How do I get it from extras-devel? Do I have to add an entry to sources.list?
Feb 18 10:28:10 <MohammadAG> #nitdroid
Feb 18 10:28:34 <lardman> rafal_g: is this sb or on-device?
Feb 18 10:28:39 <alterego> I'm sure there's a wiki page for this
Feb 18 10:28:53 <rafal_g> lardman: I need both
Feb 18 10:29:17 <lardman> on-device copy the Extras settings and just tack -devel on the end where Extras is
Feb 18 10:29:31 <lardman> then take a look on-device in /etc/apt/* and see what it has done
Feb 18 10:29:31 <MohammadAG> lardman, CONFIG += mobility12
Feb 18 10:29:32 <MohammadAG> maemo5 { CONFIG += mobility12 } else { CONFIG += mobility }
Feb 18 10:29:45 <lardman> MohammadAG: thanks, no - needed
Feb 18 10:32:25 <rafal_g> lardman: Where do I copy it from?
Feb 18 10:35:19 <lardman> you changed it in ham?
Feb 18 10:36:57 <achipa> X-Fade: ping
Feb 18 10:38:11 <lolcat> It told me to backup, any sence in doing that?
Feb 18 10:38:19 <lolcat> And to update?
Feb 18 10:38:33 <lolcat> And do I need a power kernel?
Feb 18 10:39:12 <DocScrutinizer> lolcat: I'm not interested in what a android-installer tells you
Feb 18 10:39:17 <DocScrutinizer> take it elsewhere
Feb 18 10:39:51 <khertan> hum .... about update too :)
Feb 18 10:40:05 <khertan> i ve a little problem to install last maemo release
Feb 18 10:40:11 <khertan> ask me to backup
Feb 18 10:40:16 <khertan> so i do it ...
Feb 18 10:40:20 <khertan> but install stop
Feb 18 10:40:46 <DocScrutinizer> what does it say?
Feb 18 10:40:54 <khertan> ok ... next time i ll read completely the message
Feb 18 10:40:55 <khertan> :)
Feb 18 10:41:11 <khertan> backup and connect it to your pc to flash it
Feb 18 10:41:13 <khertan> :)
Feb 18 10:41:37 <DocScrutinizer> that's a helpless way to tell you there've been problems with SSU
Feb 18 10:41:48 <khertan> :)
Feb 18 10:42:00 <DocScrutinizer> either some incompatibilities or too few free space
Feb 18 10:42:13 <khertan> i think that the pr1.1 was the reason
Feb 18 10:42:14 <khertan> :)
Feb 18 10:42:22 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Feb 18 10:44:04 <lardman> bbiab
Feb 18 10:44:06 <DocScrutinizer> though it *should* update a ootb PR1.1 OTA no problem. But takes ages
Feb 18 10:45:20 <khertan> oh to reboot an n900 ... remove the backcover while swap on sd
Feb 18 10:45:22 <khertan> ...
Feb 18 10:45:37 <DocScrutinizer> I know better ways
Feb 18 10:45:43 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Feb 18 10:46:31 <SpeedEvil> BTDT.
Feb 18 10:46:35 <SpeedEvil> Thoughnot with n900
Feb 18 10:46:46 <DocScrutinizer> but yeah I guess reboot is best the system can do
Feb 18 10:47:03 <SpeedEvil> I've actually argued ages ago that it's not.
Feb 18 10:47:11 <SpeedEvil> Per-user swap would be a nice thing to add.
Feb 18 10:47:16 <khertan> yeah ... open the keyboard violently
Feb 18 10:47:26 <SpeedEvil> So you can say 'only not-root gets to use this swap device'
Feb 18 10:47:47 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: nice
Feb 18 10:48:22 <khertan> oh ... funny default language after flash for regular n900 are english
Feb 18 10:48:30 <khertan> for the preproduction one it s finnish
Feb 18 10:48:31 <khertan> :)
Feb 18 10:49:00 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil:taking into account we need a flashcontroller aware kswapd anyway, I'd say this goes hand in hand nicely together
Feb 18 10:49:11 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Feb 18 10:50:33 <DocScrutinizer> so who's taking it to LKML?
Feb 18 10:51:06 <MohammadAG> cat /dev/kmem ftw
Feb 18 10:51:15 <DocScrutinizer> hehehehe
Feb 18 10:51:25 <DocScrutinizer> you thieeeeef
Feb 18 10:53:19 <DocScrutinizer> I need to prepare a patch that will set first 1024 bytes in kmem all to "reboot (C) jr\nreboot (C)jr\n..."  :-P
Feb 18 10:53:20 <SpeedEvil> Oooh. http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets-accessories/wired-headsets/nokia-digital-radio-headset-dab
Feb 18 10:53:25 * SpeedEvil wonders.
Feb 18 10:54:14 * SpeedEvil ponders abusing the Distance Selling Regulations to see if it could be made to work.
Feb 18 10:54:30 <SpeedEvil> Also.
Feb 18 10:54:42 <SpeedEvil> WTF can't I buy the nice right-angled plug anywhere.
Feb 18 10:54:44 <SpeedEvil> Grrrr.
Feb 18 10:54:56 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
Feb 18 10:57:30 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: my much cooler "echo heartbeat >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:b/trigger" is allegedly fixed :-/
Feb 18 10:58:03 <HRH_H_Crab> hey guys, i prob. don't say this enough and i idle in here a lot, so:
Feb 18 10:58:27 <HRH_H_Crab> thanks to all of you who work on maemo & the free (as in speech and beer) software for n900.
Feb 18 10:58:31 <HRH_H_Crab> it is awesome.
Feb 18 10:59:11 <DocScrutinizer> HRH_H_Crab: you're welcome, though we'd love to see you contribute
Feb 18 10:59:18 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Feb 18 10:59:31 <DocScrutinizer> well, you just started
Feb 18 11:00:01 <HRH_H_Crab> i dont program - im just a geeky end user, but i'll surely contribute to wiki / docs as appropriate if i get a chance!
Feb 18 11:00:36 <DocScrutinizer> as valuable a contribution as any other
Feb 18 11:01:05 <alterego> :)
Feb 18 11:01:34 <alterego> HRH_H_Crab: sometimes it's nice to just know people appreciate our efforts ;)
Feb 18 11:01:46 <SpeedEvil> Cash works too.
Feb 18 11:01:49 <SpeedEvil> ;)
Feb 18 11:01:49 <DocScrutinizer> even just testing programs and giving feedback, esp about missing/defect things is valuable
Feb 18 11:02:11 <SpeedEvil> But yes - testing or documentation, or help with bgfixes is valuable too.
Feb 18 11:02:14 <HRH_H_Crab> alterego: i totally do.
Feb 18 11:03:36 <HRH_H_Crab> i'll help as much as i can.
Feb 18 11:04:05 <HRH_H_Crab> ive settled into a fairly comfortable useage pattern now though, so im not really trying new stuff much.
Feb 18 11:09:59 <DocScrutinizer> start with documenting this usage pattern, so devels see what's the most used apps that are worth getting some love
Feb 18 11:15:30 <HRH_H_Crab> DocScrutinizer: and just post it on the forums?
Feb 18 11:17:19 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, you can do that. Or edit http://wiki.maemo.org/User:HRH_H_Crab(or whatever is your correct nick there)
Feb 18 11:20:46 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: (heartbeat) iirc it only "works" when issues during screen off and ind-LED active
Feb 18 11:22:33 <DocScrutinizer> LOL, and it's fixed and *really* works (not as a reboot trigger) on PK
Feb 18 11:24:50 <DocScrutinizer> cat /sys/class/leds/lp5523:b/trigger   ; #if you're curious
Feb 18 11:25:21 <Venemo> [07:29] <krayon> Venemo: Any plans to make the pieces "puzzle" shaped?  Not too difficult I would think and would make it even cooler. -> Yes, there are plans. I just haven't got to it yet.
Feb 18 11:26:17 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: this MUST come with puzzle tiles rotatable then :-P
Feb 18 11:26:31 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: tiles rotatable? wut?
Feb 18 11:26:39 <DocScrutinizer> oh sheeesch that's going to get difficult
Feb 18 11:26:53 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: that would require some multitouch-wouldn't it
Feb 18 11:27:27 <DocScrutinizer> difficult was the multi-meaning keyword of my last line ;-)
Feb 18 11:28:29 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: you could use gestures, like microB does, for zooming
Feb 18 11:28:45 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: I could imagine rotating the tiles with the multitouch pinch-to-rotate gesture (like on every crapdroid fone)
Feb 18 11:28:56 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: but for single-touch, no idea
Feb 18 11:29:08 <DocScrutinizer> or simply double-click
Feb 18 11:29:20 <DocScrutinizer> to rotate 90° clockwise
Feb 18 11:29:20 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: mhm
Feb 18 11:29:26 <villager> perhaps the user could rotate the pieces by clicking away from their center-of-mass...
Feb 18 11:29:35 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Feb 18 11:29:41 <villager> and dragging
Feb 18 11:30:24 <Venemo> so far, double click is the most user-friendy
Feb 18 11:30:59 <lardman> re
Feb 18 11:31:21 <Venemo> btw DocScrutinizer, in case you missed it: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=949457&postcount=38
Feb 18 11:32:54 <rafal_g> how can I get extras-devel working in scratchbox?
Feb 18 11:33:01 <pupnik> nice demo of N8 running 13 apps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5Z2fSBmptc  [ Nokia N8 Multitasking Torture Test ]
Feb 18 11:33:12 <Venemo> rafal_g: add the repo to /etc/apt/sources.list
Feb 18 11:33:15 <Zeddy> Hey, how exactly do you export your calendar from the latest maemo firmware?
Feb 18 11:33:37 <Zeddy> i mean google exchange fails miserably, it takes 5 minutes and then it tells me that connection to exchange server fails
Feb 18 11:33:52 <Zeddy> i tried using wlan and 3G, same thing for both
Feb 18 11:34:14 <rafal_g> Venemo: I've added deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free but it complains about Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'
Feb 18 11:34:52 <Venemo> rafal_g: mhm
Feb 18 11:35:51 <DocScrutinizer> pffff 13 apps. I find myself running 13 terminals by accident, in addition to quite some other crap
Feb 18 11:36:10 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: :)
Feb 18 11:36:22 * BCMM hands DocScrutinizer his free copy of GNU Screen
Feb 18 11:36:59 * khertan use often more than 20 terminal
Feb 18 11:37:00 <khertan> :)
Feb 18 11:37:00 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: meh screen, taskswitcher muuuuuuch nicer
Feb 18 11:37:12 <khertan> i agree
Feb 18 11:37:50 <DocScrutinizer> plus with MHD I got much easier shortcuts to switch between screens/terminals
Feb 18 11:38:41 <Zeddy> whats gonna become of the maemo community now?
Feb 18 11:39:48 <DocScrutinizer> a crown of creaming monkeys - it's Frifay afternon now ;-P
Feb 18 11:39:58 <DocScrutinizer> crowd*
Feb 18 11:40:08 <DocScrutinizer> damn
Feb 18 11:40:18 <Venemo> Zeddy: most people will go to the MeeGo community (probably only after there is some really usable MeeGo), the rest is gonna go to android or whatever, and some people will remain at hacking good old Maemo
Feb 18 11:40:23 <DocScrutinizer> a crowd of creaming monkeys - it's Friday afternon now ;-P
Feb 18 11:40:31 <DocScrutinizer> a crowd of screaming monkeys - it's Friday afternon now ;-P
Feb 18 11:40:41 <villager> Zeddy: well if all else fails, you can try SyncEvolution... even if you don't want to sync with a server, it has command-line options for dumping the PIM databases to files (mainly for debugging, but can be useful)...
Feb 18 11:40:44 <DocScrutinizer> see what I mean :-P
Feb 18 11:41:32 * DocScrutinizer takes a note in callendar about the day he broke the record of typos in one post
Feb 18 11:41:48 <Zeddy> :p
Feb 18 11:42:09 <Zeddy> my school just gave me a htc desire hd and told me to start developing apps for it instead
Feb 18 11:42:28 <Zeddy> kinda sad that i took all that time to learn Qt and then they just drop it
Feb 18 11:42:44 <Robot101> you can get qt on android :P
Feb 18 11:42:58 <trx> u can use qt even on win
Feb 18 11:43:10 <crashanddie> You can even say "you" instead of "u"
Feb 18 11:43:11 <DocScrutinizer> maemo community existed pror to N900, it will stay around when N900 is dead and forgotten
Feb 18 11:43:16 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: "plus with MHD I got much easier shortcuts to switch between screens/terminals" - talking about ctrl-backspace-as-alt-tab, or something xterm-specific?
Feb 18 11:43:26 <DocScrutinizer> prior* damn what's with my fingers?!
Feb 18 11:43:42 <niala_> question: what is the maximum resolution that can be played on the n900
Feb 18 11:43:43 <DocScrutinizer> ctl-bs
Feb 18 11:43:51 <Zeddy> qt and android is still so alphabeta it can get
Feb 18 11:43:58 <niala_> i mean n900 on a tv
Feb 18 11:44:13 <DocScrutinizer> PAL
Feb 18 11:44:34 <trx> crashanddie is is so terrible to say "u" instead of "you"?
Feb 18 11:44:54 <villager> trx: yes
Feb 18 11:44:59 <Robot101> yes - IRC doesn't have a 160 character limit :)
Feb 18 11:45:17 <Robot101> we have as many characters as we want, to express ourselves clearly, with no additional charge!
Feb 18 11:45:27 <trx> they why are you using stuff like AFAIK, IIRC, etc?
Feb 18 11:45:32 <trx> then*
Feb 18 11:46:07 <villager> Robot101: as a faq I once read said - so each additional character you write saves you money!
Feb 18 11:46:57 <DocScrutinizer> trx: it's about convention, about crashanddie's mood, and of course about readability and compression factor ;-D
Feb 18 11:47:17 <trx> :)
Feb 18 11:47:54 <trx> ok, i will have that in mind next time i want to say something..
Feb 18 11:47:57 <DocScrutinizer> u instead of you has a really poor factor of 3:1 and a poor uniqueness
Feb 18 11:48:56 <DocScrutinizer> I'd let users get away with it if they are really in a hurry all the time, like raster. crashanddie kicks :-P
Feb 18 11:49:29 <ruskie> Robot101, IRC does have a char limit
Feb 18 11:49:37 <ruskie> it depends on the irc server
Feb 18 11:50:00 <ruskie> but generally ~512 chars is the average norm... some do 1024... then they cut off the rest
Feb 18 11:50:15 <ruskie> that's why things like splitlong.pl in irssi exist...
Feb 18 11:51:15 <crashanddie> I don't kick
Feb 18 11:51:19 <crashanddie> I haven't kicked in ages
Feb 18 11:51:23 <villager> besides, things like "AFAIK" are acronyms, while "u" is not an acronym, just ugly...
Feb 18 11:51:28 <DocScrutinizer> TOPICLEN=390
Feb 18 11:51:35 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: you kicked raster
Feb 18 11:51:42 <crashanddie> when?
Feb 18 11:51:47 <DocScrutinizer> for using 'u'
Feb 18 11:51:50 <crashanddie> I did?
Feb 18 11:51:59 <DocScrutinizer> last time he's been here :-P
Feb 18 11:52:00 <crashanddie> or because he was a dick afterwards?
Feb 18 11:52:38 <Venemo> lol
Feb 18 11:52:46 <ruskie> *yawn*
Feb 18 11:57:34 <deno> hi there
Feb 18 11:57:46 <deno> can you tell me why did you set fifo_mode = 5 instead of fifo_mode = 4?
Feb 18 11:58:08 <deno> for the h-e-n team :)
Feb 18 11:58:37 <MohammadAG> all patches are commented on in the git repsotiroy
Feb 18 12:03:29 <deno> MohammadAG, thx
Feb 18 12:07:59 <niala_> question: synergy run on maemo ?
Feb 18 12:09:17 <Venemo> how ridiculous is this? M$ disallows FOSS apps in their marketplace.
Feb 18 12:11:43 <lolcat> Meh, android sucked hard
Feb 18 12:11:56 <Venemo> lolcat: why the past tense? it sucks hard.
Feb 18 12:12:08 <lolcat> In the sence I won't be using it anymore
Feb 18 12:12:18 <lolcat> Didn't show me spotify
Feb 18 12:12:24 <ruskie> niala_, you mean synergy2 ? should work... both are X
Feb 18 12:12:30 <lolcat> Trying to do the recommended steps to get spotify, it crashed
Feb 18 12:13:16 <niala_> ruskie, i mean to share keyboard from my desktop to n900
Feb 18 12:13:27 <ruskie> niala_, yeah... should work... both are X
Feb 18 12:13:45 <lolcat> Maybe I should try meego some day
Feb 18 12:14:00 <niala_> niala_, niala_  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=synergy+maemo
Feb 18 12:14:44 <ruskie> lolcat, maybe you'll have a better reaction it's UX than I did...
Feb 18 12:15:20 <lolcat> UX?
Feb 18 12:15:35 <niala_> lolcat, you can try on sd  card with no changing maemo.
Feb 18 12:15:38 <niala_> i believe
Feb 18 12:15:50 <lolcat> I think so
Feb 18 12:15:55 <lolcat> Can't be bothered now
Feb 18 12:15:59 <ruskie> user experience... aka UI and it's use and feel ;)
Feb 18 12:16:12 <lolcat> Starting to show symptoms of sleep deprevation now
Feb 18 12:16:46 <lolcat> I am getting a new phone company soon
Feb 18 12:16:52 <lolcat> 2/3
Feb 18 12:17:20 <BCMM> on no account sign any contracts when sleep-deprived.
Feb 18 12:18:34 <lolcat> Trust me, this is a good idea
Feb 18 12:19:01 * lolcat has started sleeping every other day
Feb 18 12:19:09 <lolcat> 48 houres awake, 16 houres sleep
Feb 18 12:19:50 <BCMM> there was some record-holdingly-old person who for some reason slept for two days then stayed awake for two days
Feb 18 12:20:10 <BCMM> (not as a way of becoming very old)
Feb 18 12:20:20 <ruskie> lolcat, that works great... if you don't actually have work and such like...
Feb 18 12:20:28 <BCMM> does that actually work, long term
Feb 18 12:20:30 <BCMM> ?
Feb 18 12:20:33 <BCMM> it sounds like a terrible idea
Feb 18 12:20:43 <ruskie> according to various research not really
Feb 18 12:20:49 <ruskie> i.e. does it work
Feb 18 12:20:57 <BCMM> if it does work, it also sounds like it would be pretty hard to get in to, and once in to it, even harder to get out of
Feb 18 12:21:04 <BCMM> (if you had to be in real life for a bit)
Feb 18 12:21:24 <lolcat> I don't have any real-life duties
Feb 18 12:21:40 <ruskie> I used to have similar things when I was younger...
Feb 18 12:21:46 <lolcat> Or, I am expected to show up at the university 6 houres a week
Feb 18 12:21:51 <BCMM> also, it doesn't even stay in phase with real days
Feb 18 12:21:52 <lolcat> on three diffrent days
Feb 18 12:21:53 <ruskie> then I discovered that 8h/day sleep is just right for my needs...
Feb 18 12:22:09 * SpeedEvil wants a 28h or so day
Feb 18 12:22:46 * ruskie wants to work for 6h/day sleep for 8h/day and the rest have it to himself...
Feb 18 12:24:33 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/18/rim_india/ <-- seriously... give it a rest...
Feb 18 12:25:42 <SpeedEvil> 'Having threatened to ban the service, and repeatedly petitioned RIM to do the impossible,' - missing the point
Feb 18 12:26:00 <SpeedEvil> It is not impossible for RIM to change their buisness model to facilitate government.
Feb 18 12:26:27 <ruskie> :)
Feb 18 12:26:30 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/18/stop_offering_me_stuff_i_must_pay_for_metropcs/ <-- hmm
Feb 18 12:26:39 <ruskie> especially the last bit of that article is interesting
Feb 18 12:35:42 <flux> well, their argument makes sense if without the extra $10-$20 they (try to) block all music transfers from the web
Feb 18 12:36:13 <flux> but not, if for $10-$20 they are providing their own music streaming (or whatever) service
Feb 18 12:37:45 <DocScrutinizer> to all those constantly searching for something to hack up: fix powertop so it works correctly with powerkernel
Feb 18 12:38:03 <SpeedEvil> powertop has no source
Feb 18 12:38:31 <DocScrutinizer> that should get fixed as well, it's GPL isn't it?
Feb 18 12:38:43 <ruskie> http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/download/powertop-1.13.tar.gz <-- erm... is it any different than this?
Feb 18 12:38:54 <SpeedEvil> yes
Feb 18 12:39:00 <SpeedEvil> It's utterly unrelated.
Feb 18 12:39:06 <ruskie> other than by name?
Feb 18 12:39:16 <ruskie> I thought it was the same thing...
Feb 18 12:39:18 <ruskie> just ported over...
Feb 18 12:39:49 <SpeedEvil> They're totally unrelated - there was a request to open powertop, but it was a won'tfix IIRC
Feb 18 12:40:24 <DocScrutinizer> I'd say they are just enough related to force Nokia to obey GPL and open up the source
Feb 18 12:40:37 <SpeedEvil> It's a flat reimplementation.
Feb 18 12:40:45 <SpeedEvil> I'd say there are no grounds at all.
Feb 18 12:40:46 <DocScrutinizer> I doubt that
Feb 18 12:41:05 <SpeedEvil> Why? Look at powertop, look at the other powertop.
Feb 18 12:41:16 <ruskie> why not just adjust the proper powertop to work on it?
Feb 18 12:41:17 <SpeedEvil> There is little reason to believe they have shared code
Feb 18 12:44:30 <ShadowJK> Yeah I doubt there's any shared code
Feb 18 12:47:44 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: I also implemented your feature request btw :)
Feb 18 12:54:19 <ruskie> hmm where exactly is powertop hidden? in what repo?
Feb 18 12:54:46 <ruskie> I can't find it in my scratchbox install even though I have nokia binaries, tools sdk and all the extras enabled...
Feb 18 12:57:07 <visz> ehlo
Feb 18 12:57:14 <visz> <3 nokia
Feb 18 12:57:25 <visz> To assist you with your development activities in the near-term, we will ship one free Nokia E7 device to all  program  members. Additionally, we will send to you one free Nokia WP7 device, as soon as it becomes available.
Feb 18 12:58:24 <SpeedEvil> On the basis of what ?
Feb 18 12:58:28 <ruskie> rofl
Feb 18 12:58:53 <visz> launchpad member
Feb 18 12:58:55 <SpeedEvil> A free nokia WP7 device might be fun to see if you can root it.
Feb 18 12:59:50 <chx> and then?
Feb 18 12:59:58 <SpeedEvil> Profit!
Feb 18 13:00:03 <DocScrutinizer> meh
Feb 18 13:00:12 <chx> you do not have anything to put on it
Feb 18 13:00:21 <chx> maemo is abandoned if i understand correctly
Feb 18 13:00:24 * SpeedEvil imagines CSSU for noksofts.
Feb 18 13:00:26 <chx> and who knows what happens to meego
Feb 18 13:00:31 <jarkkom_> WP7 got rooted about week after being on sale
Feb 18 13:00:43 <BCMM> chx: and then? install maemo!
Feb 18 13:00:55 <BCMM> (yes i know, drivers)
Feb 18 13:00:57 <SpeedEvil> By rooted, I man sufficient to run a linux kernel supporting all of the features of the device.
Feb 18 13:01:02 <chx> why not install maemo on the G2 then
Feb 18 13:01:13 <chx> the hardware drives me to "want"
Feb 18 13:02:25 <jarkkom_> SpeedEvil, not sure about maemo/meego but android probably would be fairly straightforward since AFAIK wp7 phones are based on qualcomm chipsets and there's tons of similar android phones out already
Feb 18 13:03:36 <SpeedEvil> I just think it'd be amusing to post about a free windows dev device that I'd got meego running on it. :)
Feb 18 13:04:23 <flux> maybe you could hack it to use the windows drivers ;)
Feb 18 13:09:46 <BCMM> how hard is it to make android drivers work with a proper kernel?
Feb 18 13:11:44 <ruskie> I thought they were just kernel modules?
Feb 18 13:11:48 <ruskie> and still loaded as kernel modules
Feb 18 13:13:21 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: ruskie: ask mickeyl, I heard him swear about annoyance in doing exactly that
Feb 18 13:22:12 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, you're right. Powertop of maemo and x86-intel powertop seem to be completely disjunkt
Feb 18 13:23:31 <DocScrutinizer> well, I could go into RE mode, and compare the regenerated sourcecode, but that's not on my todo list of today
Feb 18 13:34:53 <visz> http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/18/nokia-giving-developers-free-e7-and-nokia-wp7-device-when-availa/
Feb 18 13:35:02 <ruskie> DocScrutinizer, comparing strings shows 2 completly different things...
Feb 18 13:35:17 <ruskie> the nokia one also has a reference to: pmtrackerdaemon
Feb 18 13:37:18 <ruskie> but the diff is very obvious... nokia one only references like 6 or 7 /sys nodes while powertop has 40+
Feb 18 13:37:21 <DocScrutinizer> ruskie: I know, as that's exactly what I did :-)
Feb 18 13:37:43 <ruskie> :)
Feb 18 13:38:22 * ruskie needs to try making his own theme sometime... a bit more modified than his current just change the colour of digital nature theme...
Feb 18 13:38:54 <Jaffa> visz: Yeah, I got that email.
Feb 18 13:38:59 <ShadowJK> intel powertop gropes a large number of /sys nodes to offer tune-up advice
Feb 18 13:39:00 <DocScrutinizer> ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -l root IroN900 'strings `which powertop`' | sort >xxx1
Feb 18 13:39:19 <ruskie> nice hostname ;)
Feb 18 13:39:28 <ruskie> mine is baldr
Feb 18 13:39:34 <ShadowJK> nokia powertop is more basic, but has more detailed statistics on Arm than intel powertop on intel cpus
Feb 18 13:41:03 <DocScrutinizer> ...and gives me >>  1150 MHz |   nan% | << for % in CPU freq, on PK :-S
Feb 18 13:41:58 <DocScrutinizer> even though it's NOT OC'd! (as you might have guessed)
Feb 18 13:44:39 <OkropNick> It would be nice for me to use shutter button for song changing (next button). Any ideal how to do that?
Feb 18 13:44:49 <OkropNick> I mean on N900
Feb 18 13:44:50 <ruskie> shortcud?
Feb 18 13:44:57 <ruskie> erm shortcutd
Feb 18 13:45:07 <ruskie> or some other tool... iirc there is something to do such crazy things...
Feb 18 13:45:13 <OkropNick> ruskie: thx, I'll check it :)
Feb 18 13:48:29 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/18/vodafone_intel/
Feb 18 13:55:21 <rafal_g> I've installed QtMobility 1.1 on scratchbox but it's installed in /opt/qtm11
Feb 18 13:55:35 <rafal_g> How do I use those libraries then?
Feb 18 13:56:41 <DocScrutinizer> cd /sys/class/leds/lp5523:r; echo timer >trigger ; echo 1000 >delay_on; echo 500 >delay_off
Feb 18 13:56:43 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Feb 18 13:56:57 <DocScrutinizer> alas mce is ruining everything in a matter of seconds
Feb 18 13:58:03 <Venemo> [14:40] <DocScrutinizer> ...and gives me >>  1150 MHz ---->  yes, we know you OC'd your n900!
Feb 18 13:58:47 <DocScrutinizer> :NAN%:
Feb 18 13:59:14 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: you're just trying to keep it a secret.
Feb 18 13:59:28 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: :P
Feb 18 13:59:43 <kerio> OMFG YOU HAVE AN IMAGINARY CPU
Feb 18 13:59:59 <Venemo> kerio: he has an N910
Feb 18 14:00:04 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, so PSHHHH!
Feb 18 14:00:09 <Venemo> xD
Feb 18 14:00:40 <DocScrutinizer> I'd rather keep secret I never ever tested OC
Feb 18 14:01:06 <kerio> N900i
Feb 18 14:01:25 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: me neither
Feb 18 14:01:33 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: my N900 is, and has always been snappy
Feb 18 14:01:44 <DocScrutinizer> just fine as is
Feb 18 14:02:14 <DocScrutinizer> no fsckng need to OC or swap nbattery for a 6V type
Feb 18 14:02:23 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: when I read from people who say it's slow or sluggish, it surprises me
Feb 18 14:02:33 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: as I haven't discovered what to do with N900 to make it sluggish
Feb 18 14:02:41 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: except running HAM, of course :P
Feb 18 14:02:58 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, that, or running flash in microB
Feb 18 14:03:02 <Corsac> just let it run for a few days
Feb 18 14:03:28 <DocScrutinizer> t900:/sys/class/leds/lp5523:r# uptime
Feb 18 14:03:30 <DocScrutinizer>  15:03:31 up 15 days,  1:12, load average: 0.01, 0.00, 0.00
Feb 18 14:04:21 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# uptime
Feb 18 14:04:22 <DocScrutinizer>  15:03    24 Tage 18:38 an,  0 Benutzer,  Durchschnittslast: 0,06, 0,04, 0,00
Feb 18 14:04:32 <E0x> tage ?
Feb 18 14:04:39 <OkropNick> ruskie: thank You, this is EXACTLY what I needed!
Feb 18 14:05:04 <DocScrutinizer> bash?
Feb 18 14:05:38 <sig^> E0x: http://dict.leo.org/ende?lang=en&search=tage
Feb 18 14:06:10 <DocScrutinizer> the 0 users part is funny though
Feb 18 14:07:01 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: did you ever figure what /dev/twl4030-adc was?
Feb 18 14:07:16 <Venemo> E0x: 'tage' = 'days' [German]
Feb 18 14:07:18 <alterego> I'm guessing it's an interface to A/D converter channels.
Feb 18 14:07:23 <E0x> ok ,thx
Feb 18 14:07:26 <SpeedEvil> alterego: It's the ADC on the GAIA - it's connected to various stuff
Feb 18 14:07:32 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: should, yes
Feb 18 14:07:42 <alterego> SpeedEvil: cool, what kind of stuff is it connected to?
Feb 18 14:07:46 <SpeedEvil> alterego: For example, I think another battery voltage sensor
Feb 18 14:07:51 <alterego> Ah, neat.
Feb 18 14:07:57 <alterego> I guess I should look at the schematic?
Feb 18 14:08:02 <SpeedEvil> Probably, yes.
Feb 18 14:08:05 <alterego> m'kay
Feb 18 14:08:08 <vi_> is the battery voltage sensor on the i2c bus?
Feb 18 14:08:15 <SpeedEvil> no
Feb 18 14:08:19 <SpeedEvil> Not that one.
Feb 18 14:08:26 <SpeedEvil> It's a resistive divider, connected to the ADC
Feb 18 14:08:34 <SpeedEvil> err - I may mean the battery capacitive sensor
Feb 18 14:08:57 <SpeedEvil> There is a seperate bq* chip that does battery voltage on the I2C bus - search wiki for charge monitor
Feb 18 14:09:48 <DocScrutinizer> BSI, bat_temp, some other cruft
Feb 18 14:10:27 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# lsof|grep adc
Feb 18 14:10:28 <DocScrutinizer> bme_RX-51   735       root    3r   CHR      10,63                1639 /dev/twl4030-adc
Feb 18 14:10:34 <DocScrutinizer> GRRRR
Feb 18 14:10:57 <vi_> can we write values to the bq chip? i.e. change some values to have it charge the battery to 4.3 volts instaed of 4.2?
Feb 18 14:11:06 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: :D
Feb 18 14:12:08 <DocScrutinizer> vi_: yes, that's exactly the stuff you could do and Nokia is SCARED of you doing it. Me too
Feb 18 14:12:39 <DocScrutinizer> WHY THE FUCK would you want to do that?
Feb 18 14:12:53 <lardman> portable pocket fireball machine?
Feb 18 14:13:14 * lardman visualises the burning lithium
Feb 18 14:13:33 <DocScrutinizer> nah, it just will destroy your batery cell, but without any noticable effect beyond it failing
Feb 18 14:13:33 <vi_> to eek a few extra mAh outta the battery at the expense of battery lifespan
Feb 18 14:13:54 <DocScrutinizer> vi_: you're a moron
Feb 18 14:13:55 <vi_> not true
Feb 18 14:14:26 <vi_> 4.2v is the optimal balance between battery lifespan and charge capacity
Feb 18 14:14:46 <DocScrutinizer> no, 4.2 is the max rated cell voltage
Feb 18 14:15:16 <vi_> it can be charged ever so slightly over 4.2v
Feb 18 14:15:27 <DocScrutinizer> vi_: you're a moron
Feb 18 14:16:02 <vi_> actually i am an electronic engineer you unqualified charlitan
Feb 18 14:16:38 <DocScrutinizer> then you should know it gains you maybe 30mAh to charge the cell to 4.3
Feb 18 14:17:29 <Shadikka> it would actually be a rather comical self-destruct function with SMSCON or something.
Feb 18 14:17:30 <DocScrutinizer> while wear will go up by a factor 10..50
Feb 18 14:17:42 <kerio> >charlitan
Feb 18 14:17:44 <kerio> wtf
Feb 18 14:17:55 <Shadikka> And yes, I know you couldn't probably actually light the battery on fire that way.
Feb 18 14:18:07 <kerio> misspelling your insults is probably the worst thing you can do
Feb 18 14:18:16 <kerio> because it makes you look line a uneducated moron
Feb 18 14:18:19 <kerio> *like
Feb 18 14:18:28 <kerio> (gah, i knew it - fucking muphry's law)
Feb 18 14:18:28 <nid0> moran, surely!
Feb 18 14:19:39 <kerio> my point still stands
Feb 18 14:19:53 <DocScrutinizer> so next time you get LESS capacity even when charging it to 4.3, due to damage done to cell chemistry
Feb 18 14:20:29 <SpeedEvil> This also applies at 4.2
Feb 18 14:20:41 <SpeedEvil> A li-ion only ever charged to 4.1 will maintain capacity a _lot_ longer
Feb 18 14:20:47 <_trine> can someone tell me the keys to press to reduce the size of the font when in a terminal on the N900
Feb 18 14:20:52 <kerio> -
Feb 18 14:20:58 <SpeedEvil> _trine: volume keys
Feb 18 14:21:05 <DocScrutinizer> I meant less than for a proper 4.2 charge cycle, without the damage done by 4.3
Feb 18 14:21:07 <_trine> thanks
Feb 18 14:21:20 <NIN101> If I write data to a device on my N900 through USB mass storage mode, is data cached somewhere (insecurely) before it finally arrives the device?
Feb 18 14:21:28 <_trine> SpeedEvil, I did know that once then i forgot it
Feb 18 14:21:28 <NIN101> device = /dev/something
Feb 18 14:21:33 <SpeedEvil> NIN101: What do you mean 'insecurely' ?
Feb 18 14:21:37 <SpeedEvil> NIN101: sync
Feb 18 14:21:59 <SpeedEvil> In general, it's written out every at most 30s or so probably
Feb 18 14:22:11 <SpeedEvil> Unless the system is busy
Feb 18 14:23:21 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: 4.2: 1256mAh, 1255mAh, 1255mAh, 1254mAh;;  4.3: 1280mAh, 1221mAh, 1150mAh...
Feb 18 14:23:35 <SpeedEvil> Yes, I know
Feb 18 14:23:57 <SpeedEvil> Laptop batteries, for example - can be nearly 'as new' if you only charge them to ~85% or so
Feb 18 14:23:58 <NIN101> So for example a truecrypt mapped device, exposed to mass storage mode with /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh . Wouldn't be cool if data which should be stored encrypted is cached and later somehow accessable.
Feb 18 14:24:14 <SpeedEvil> Whereas they may hit 85% capacity in 100 'normal' discharge cycles
Feb 18 14:24:27 <SpeedEvil> NIN101: you need to encrypt swap too
Feb 18 14:24:58 <DocScrutinizer> so I feel sorry with whoever employer has to live with vi_ as EE
Feb 18 14:25:37 <SpeedEvil> It's not quite an invalid question - there are occasions when you know that you value the one-time life more than the cyclic.
Feb 18 14:25:38 <NIN101> yeah, I thought the same SpeedEvil.
Feb 18 14:26:50 <DocScrutinizer> one time life of 4.3 is just about one week standby, then damage done and battery selfdischarged to less than what you'd have with 4.2
Feb 18 14:27:09 <SpeedEvil> yup
Feb 18 14:27:12 <nid0> cool if you can afford a new battery every week
Feb 18 14:27:28 <DocScrutinizer> also the additional capacity is really marginal and negligible
Feb 18 14:27:41 <SpeedEvil> I wasn't meaning so much in the phone use - but I'm also involved in a group that sends up balloons, with trackers on.
Feb 18 14:28:00 <DocScrutinizer> that's a valid usecase, ok :-D
Feb 18 14:29:04 <vi_> oh no, someone is attacking your dogma doc, best ad hominem fast.
Feb 18 14:29:06 <vi_> wanker
Feb 18 14:29:53 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, even insults to chanops aren't tolerated here
Feb 18 14:30:40 <DocScrutinizer> (i'm well aware moron isn't a nice name either, but it's to the point, while wanker... well :-P)
Feb 18 14:31:25 <vi_> your actions speak louder than words doc
Feb 18 14:32:03 <DocScrutinizer> your words are louder than your rationale
Feb 18 14:32:13 <DocScrutinizer> and you've been warned now
Feb 18 14:32:56 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: hmm... you... stupid!
Feb 18 14:33:34 <DocScrutinizer> well, stupid is an atribute I'm pleased to duscuss
Feb 18 14:33:43 <DocScrutinizer> discuss*
Feb 18 14:33:57 <kerio> you're ugly!
Feb 18 14:34:06 <DocScrutinizer> agreed
Feb 18 14:34:18 <kerio> you fight like a dairy farmer!
Feb 18 14:34:23 <DocScrutinizer> though my mother would beat you :-P
Feb 18 14:34:31 <LjL> you're an op on irc!
Feb 18 14:34:35 <LjL> sorry, sorry, that was too much
Feb 18 14:34:41 <kerio> LjL: dude, that was cold
Feb 18 14:35:07 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, I hate that
Feb 18 14:35:50 <vi_> so i ask a question that you dont really know the answer to, you call me a moron then kick me when i have the audacity to retaliate
Feb 18 14:36:44 <nid0> you did actually get an answer
Feb 18 14:36:51 <nid0> for what its worth
Feb 18 14:36:55 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, I missed the question. Can you repeat it please?
Feb 18 14:37:08 * FauxFaux hands vi_ and DocScrutinizer "Congratulations, you're twelve." awards.
Feb 18 14:37:45 <sig^> calling people moron isn't nice  I:
Feb 18 14:37:55 <DocScrutinizer> agreed
Feb 18 14:38:02 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: I've spoken with apes more polite than you!
Feb 18 14:38:16 <sig^> politemen
Feb 18 14:38:35 <kerio> HE WAS KICKED FOR OUR SINS!
Feb 18 14:39:00 <NIN101> lol
Feb 18 14:39:16 <flat`> :D
Feb 18 14:39:21 <flat`> aww
Feb 18 14:39:31 <RST38h> Ho ho ho
Feb 18 14:51:54 <kerio> he's back!
Feb 18 14:52:08 <kerio> faster than jesus too
Feb 18 14:52:31 <DocScrutinizer> I have to apologize to whole channel, and especially to vi_
Feb 18 14:53:00 <DocScrutinizer> obviously in a inappropriate state of mind today
Feb 18 14:55:06 <kerio> wait, what
Feb 18 14:55:29 <E0x> lol
Feb 18 14:56:55 <kerio> and now he won't come back anymore
Feb 18 14:56:58 <kerio> like jesus ._.
Feb 18 15:01:54 <doc|home> kerio: depends on whose opinion on that it is that you're listening to
Feb 18 15:05:23 <kerio> well since he never actually existed i doubt he can come back
Feb 18 15:06:00 <kerio> jesus, not docscrutinizer
Feb 18 15:12:06 <crashanddie> anyone calling someone else a wanker in this channel deserves to be banned, regardless.
Feb 18 15:12:54 <Venemo_N900> hey
Feb 18 15:13:11 <Venemo_N900> is there some command to shut down the keyboard leds?
Feb 18 15:13:20 <visz> i wonder if you could use a usb ethernet adaptor with n900 otg
Feb 18 15:14:50 <kerio> i don't get it, what's with the negative connotations related to masturbation?
Feb 18 15:15:37 <Venemo_N900> kerio: ?
Feb 18 15:15:56 <trx> visz i use one all the time
Feb 18 15:16:07 <nid0> Venemo_N900: as in, why is a wanker a bad thing
Feb 18 15:16:09 <nid0> I assume
Feb 18 15:16:11 <visz> wow
Feb 18 15:16:29 <Venemo_N900> mhm
Feb 18 15:16:47 <Venemo_N900> ok, solved
Feb 18 15:17:07 <Venemo_N900> trick the ALS to turn off the keyboard lights, then do modprobe -r leds-lp5523
Feb 18 15:28:08 <alterego> What's twl4030_wdt?
Feb 18 15:28:09 <alterego> :)
Feb 18 15:28:16 * alterego googles
Feb 18 15:29:31 <MohammadAG> alterego, vibrator
Feb 18 15:29:42 <alterego> watchdog :P
Feb 18 15:30:16 <MohammadAG> twl4030:vibrator
Feb 18 15:30:18 <MohammadAG> my bad :P
Feb 18 15:31:47 * jonwil is tempted to reverse engineer all the places the dialer app talks to anything lower level that isn't a GUI call (or something like glib or libc) so that everything one needs to know to write a new dialer would be documented
Feb 18 15:32:26 <jonwil> although that still wont catch all the wierd corner cases
Feb 18 15:32:39 <jonwil> and the special stuff that goes on
Feb 18 15:32:57 <jonwil> so its not really going to help at all
Feb 18 15:33:07 <Necc> i smell paranoidism?
Feb 18 15:33:21 <jonwil> :P
Feb 18 15:34:59 <jonwil> The only way we are going to be able to implement features like call filtering, converting a voice call into a cheaper VoIP call etc is if hell freezes over and Nokia releases the dialer source :P
Feb 18 15:35:32 <Venemo_N900> jonwil: or just wait for MeeGo where all the relevant stuff is OSS
Feb 18 15:35:55 <jonwil> :P
Feb 18 15:36:09 <jonwil> in any case doesn't matter to me
Feb 18 15:36:54 <jonwil> The stuff at http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant covers the issues and things I actually care about
Feb 18 15:36:58 <jonwil> like Cell Broadcast SMS
Feb 18 15:47:16 <alterego> Nice old news on the forum.nokia site: "promo
Feb 18 15:47:17 <alterego> icon
Feb 18 15:47:19 <alterego> Nokia Focusing on Qt, Will Extend Reach for Developers"
Feb 18 15:47:36 <Venemo_N900> alterego: wtf?
Feb 18 15:47:45 <Venemo_N900> jonnylamb_: ping
Feb 18 15:48:03 <alterego> I'm just saying that they're still "promoting" Qt on the forum Nokia website.
Feb 18 15:52:38 <Venemo_N900> alterego: of course they are
Feb 18 15:52:57 <Venemo_N900> alterego: forum nokia will probably promote Qt forever
Feb 18 15:53:06 <khertan> alterego, but not for wp7 :)
Feb 18 15:53:30 <Venemo_N900> WP7 is supported by MSDN enough. no need for forum nokia to support it
Feb 18 15:54:02 <khertan> Venemo_N900, hum ... did you mean that noone should support wp7 :)
Feb 18 15:54:37 <Venemo_N900> khertan: MSDN has 98654334568 articles for wp7 and sl. why should anyone bother rewriting them?
Feb 18 15:55:04 <crashanddie> wow
Feb 18 15:55:21 <crashanddie> All 6 WP7 phone owners must be chuffed there's so many pages dedicated to them.
Feb 18 15:56:03 <MohammadAG> xD
Feb 18 15:56:46 <deno> ls
Feb 18 15:56:57 <jaska> cd ..
Feb 18 15:57:03 <MohammadAG> rm -rf...
Feb 18 15:57:12 <deno> sudo reboot
Feb 18 15:57:16 <deno> lol
Feb 18 15:57:23 <deno> wrong window :)
Feb 18 15:57:29 <rjel> rm /lib/glib*
Feb 18 15:57:54 <rmrfchik> rmrfchik bless rm /lib
Feb 18 15:58:02 <Venemo_N900> crashanddie: also there are the blogs of MS zealots which also have lots of info on it
Feb 18 15:58:11 <rjel> rm /lib/libc* even ;)
Feb 18 15:58:12 <khertan> Venemo_N900, yep why should anyone bother writing app for them
Feb 18 15:58:15 <deno> reboot me && apt-get source LeonardoDaVinci-kernel
Feb 18 15:58:38 <deno> now I have to compile and flash it
Feb 18 15:58:59 <Venemo_N900> khertan: actually, it's a lot easier than writing apps in C or C++, IMO
Feb 18 15:59:28 <khertan> Venemo_N900, mouarf
Feb 18 15:59:51 <khertan> Venemo_N900, it s easier to write app in python/qt than C#
Feb 18 15:59:52 <khertan> :)
Feb 18 16:00:09 <khertan> Venemo_N900, at least MeeGo/Maemo give the choice to developpers
Feb 18 16:00:10 <Venemo_N900> khertan: I was a .NET dev for a long time
Feb 18 16:00:11 <MohammadAG> tbh
Feb 18 16:00:19 <MohammadAG> I find C++ easier than Python
Feb 18 16:00:20 <MohammadAG> :p
Feb 18 16:00:39 <khertan> MohammadAG, exactly ... it s a developper choice
Feb 18 16:00:50 <MohammadAG> yep
Feb 18 16:01:50 <khertan> i ve made a dropbox clone in 100 line of code in python for the server and 100 other line for the client with a rsync style for sending modifications only :)
Feb 18 16:01:55 * MohammadAG tests his app
Feb 18 16:02:08 <MohammadAG> Now listening to "Forever and Always" by "Bullet For My Valentine"
Feb 18 16:02:10 <MohammadAG> yay
Feb 18 16:02:30 * khertan is listening Bring them to light - Apocalyptica
Feb 18 16:02:38 <MohammadAG> that's not on the N900 :p
Feb 18 16:03:19 <Venemo_N900> I would prefer developing in C# anytime. it's just that easier.
Feb 18 16:03:39 <Venemo_N900> C++ with Qt is almost that easy too
Feb 18 16:03:42 <flailingmonkey> isn't it all forced to be silverlight though
Feb 18 16:03:57 <Venemo_N900> flailingmonkey: correct
Feb 18 16:04:14 <alterego> C# is only easier because MSVS is more featureful.
Feb 18 16:04:33 <alterego> I guess the language maybe a little easier, but then I'm pretty proficient with both so I can't really say :)
Feb 18 16:04:54 <Venemo_N900> alterego: it's equally as easy in monodevelop too.
Feb 18 16:05:06 <flailingmonkey> MSVS... is so god damn gigantic
Feb 18 16:05:11 <Venemo_N900> alterego: have you heard about linq?
Feb 18 16:05:39 <alterego> Yes
Feb 18 16:05:46 <alterego> Heard about, never used.
Feb 18 16:05:57 <Venemo_N900> alterego: if only Qt had anything like it...
Feb 18 16:06:17 <alterego> Meh
Feb 18 16:06:23 <alterego> What's wrong with SQL :P
Feb 18 16:06:27 <flailingmonkey> it's not really something that makes sense in Qt
Feb 18 16:06:49 <Venemo_N900> not talking about linq to sql
Feb 18 16:07:26 <flailingmonkey> shoe horning functional programming in C#, was my impression of linq
Feb 18 16:07:39 <Venemo_N900> let's say I have an array of items in which I want to find something
Feb 18 16:07:53 <drj_cro> vleave
Feb 18 16:07:54 <Venemo_N900> in C++, I have to write a 5-line loop
Feb 18 16:08:05 <Venemo_N900> in C#, it's 1 line linq
Feb 18 16:08:15 <flailingmonkey> except when people don't use linq :p
Feb 18 16:08:25 <flailingmonkey> it's possible to make it one line w/ linq
Feb 18 16:08:26 <FauxFaux> Venemo_N900: std::find(list, [i] { return i.bar() == 5; });
Feb 18 16:08:50 <Venemo_N900> FauxFaux: what syntax is that?
Feb 18 16:09:01 <FauxFaux> A guess at the C++0x lambda syntax.
Feb 18 16:09:01 <flailingmonkey> yeah, functional programming shoe horned into object oriented programming
Feb 18 16:09:10 <FauxFaux> Probably has a () in there too.
Feb 18 16:09:20 <flailingmonkey> functions as first class objects, which you can pass around like any other object
Feb 18 16:09:32 <Venemo_N900> FauxFaux: if C++0x was done, I would use this :)
Feb 18 16:09:38 <flailingmonkey> possibly even modify, but I dunno what linq specifically is like
Feb 18 16:10:12 <FauxFaux> You probably actually have to write int bar; std::find(foo, [bar](T t) -> boolean { return t.foo() == bar; }); // but it's still pretty good.
Feb 18 16:10:50 <Venemo_N900> myItem = items.Single(x => x.Name == "Joe");
Feb 18 16:11:13 <FauxFaux> (Too used to Haskell; which is basically C++; filter (\x -> foo x == bar) list.)
Feb 18 16:11:15 <flailingmonkey> still, you'll probably see people use the 5 line C# instead of LINQ. not just because they are more familiar with that way, but it is also easier to read
Feb 18 16:11:52 <Venemo_N900> myItems = items.Where(x => x.LastName == "Smith").OrderBy(x => x.BirthDate).ThenBy(x => x.FirstName);
Feb 18 16:12:05 <Venemo_N900> how may lines would this take in C++?
Feb 18 16:12:19 <MohammadAG> 1 if you don't use line breaks :p
Feb 18 16:13:00 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG: exactly ;)
Feb 18 16:13:12 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG: it'll be a long way before you reach lcuk's sense of humor.
Feb 18 16:13:21 <flailingmonkey> Venemo_N900: that is one ugly jumble of code. less lines not better
Feb 18 16:13:35 <MohammadAG> lcuk's sense of humor is unique, no one can reach it
Feb 18 16:13:50 <Venemo_N900> flailingmonkey: it is very well understandable and does works well.
Feb 18 16:14:09 <MohammadAG> actually, it can take 0 lines
Feb 18 16:14:18 <MohammadAG> if you write to /dev/null
Feb 18 16:14:32 <Venemo_N900> flailingmonkey: even if you write the method calls to separate lines, it'll be shorter than the C++ counterpart
Feb 18 16:14:41 <flailingmonkey> Venemo_N900: I believe it works, but it isn't going to be more maintainable that way
Feb 18 16:15:01 <Venemo_N900> flailingmonkey: many developers disagree with you.
Feb 18 16:15:18 <flailingmonkey> Venemo_N900: many developers don't know how to write maintainable code either :p
Feb 18 16:15:48 <Venemo_N900> flailingmonkey: the ability to write nonmaintainable code is language-independent :P
Feb 18 16:15:57 <lcuk> MohammadAG, \@
Feb 18 16:16:02 <Venemo_N900> anyway, my point is: I wanna C++0x features!!!
Feb 18 16:16:11 <flailingmonkey> passing functions as first-class objects is a great language feature though
Feb 18 16:16:23 <Venemo_N900> flailingmonkey: yes
Feb 18 16:16:28 <MohammadAG> lcuk, @/ to you too :p
Feb 18 16:16:32 <MohammadAG> what's @/ :P
Feb 18 16:16:40 <Venemo_N900> flailingmonkey: it is possible in C++ too, via function pointers
Feb 18 16:16:50 <lcuk> angry old man waving his walking stick at you youngsters
Feb 18 16:16:58 <Venemo_N900> flailingmonkey: just there's no lambdas in C++
Feb 18 16:17:06 <MohammadAG> us whipper snappers?
Feb 18 16:17:08 <Venemo_N900> lcuk: you are not old :P
Feb 18 16:17:12 <MohammadAG> indeed
Feb 18 16:17:15 <lcuk> I will be on Sunday
Feb 18 16:17:17 <lcuk> a whole 36
Feb 18 16:17:26 <flailingmonkey> yeah, it can be done, but the syntax to do it is much uglier compared to C#
Feb 18 16:17:27 <MohammadAG> 36 isn't old
Feb 18 16:17:30 <MohammadAG> 69 is
Feb 18 16:17:31 <flailingmonkey>  or LINQ
Feb 18 16:17:33 * MohammadAG giggles
Feb 18 16:17:38 <lcuk> 68 is fun, not old.
Feb 18 16:17:44 <Venemo_N900> lcuk: I'm only 20
Feb 18 16:17:54 <MohammadAG> you're 20
Feb 18 16:18:00 * lcuk has a dream of sitting on park bench with Tracy at that sorta age :)
Feb 18 16:18:13 <Venemo_N900> :)
Feb 18 16:18:31 <lcuk> haven't decided which bench yet lol
Feb 18 16:19:34 <MohammadAG> you're 20?*
Feb 18 16:19:41 <MohammadAG> i thought you were 18
Feb 18 16:20:09 <MohammadAG> am I the youngest on the channel? :p
Feb 18 16:20:22 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG: I turned to 20 at 22 january
Feb 18 16:20:35 <lcuk> happy belated birthday Venemo_N900
Feb 18 16:20:44 <MohammadAG> very belated* :p
Feb 18 16:20:48 <lcuk> did you add a birthday cake picture to your app to celebrate?
Feb 18 16:21:09 <Venemo_N900> thanks :)
Feb 18 16:21:16 <MohammadAG> I like how angry birds seasons turned into a love theme on 14/2
Feb 18 16:21:20 <Venemo_N900> lcuk: it didn't occour me to do so
Feb 18 16:21:32 <MohammadAG> I wanted to do that with PSFreedom, but that app is basically dead
Feb 18 16:23:03 <lcuk> Venemo_N900, there are a lot of amazingly good cakes
Feb 18 16:23:16 <slonopotamus> X-Fade: ping
Feb 18 16:23:23 <lcuk> ask noobmonkey, his wife bakes cakes :) and he is a great photographer
Feb 18 16:23:40 <Venemo_N900> it's a bit lat now
Feb 18 16:23:52 <Venemo_N900> but I will add cakes at your birthay :P
Feb 18 16:23:59 <Venemo_N900> when is it gonna be?
Feb 18 16:24:08 <lcuk> Sunday
Feb 18 16:24:21 * lcuk is going to Manchester Museum of Science and Industry :)
Feb 18 16:24:32 <Venemo_N900> the day after tomorrow? nice!
Feb 18 16:24:33 <lcuk> they have a replica of the Manchester Mark I
Feb 18 16:24:49 <lcuk> a huge room spanning computer
Feb 18 16:24:49 <Venemo_N900> what's Manchester Mark I?
Feb 18 16:24:54 <lcuk> that writes love letters :)
Feb 18 16:25:02 <Venemo_N900> :)
Feb 18 16:25:42 <lcuk> Venemo_N900, it was the evolution of the Manchester Baby and was one of the first stored program computers
Feb 18 16:25:44 <lcuk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Mark_1
Feb 18 16:25:52 <Venemo_N900> lcuk: nice
Feb 18 16:26:13 <Venemo_N900> lcuk: of couse, stored program computer was also invented by a Hungarian
Feb 18 16:27:04 <lcuk> awesome
Feb 18 16:27:12 <lcuk> who?
Feb 18 16:27:22 <Necc> Janos Neumann
Feb 18 16:27:25 <Venemo_N900> lcuk: John Neumann
Feb 18 16:27:50 <Venemo_N900> lcuk: or Neumann János, as we call him
Feb 18 16:33:45 <mullein> is there or will there be a squeeze version of the maemo sdk?
Feb 18 16:34:24 <slonopotamus> mullein: no
Feb 18 16:34:34 <mullein> thanks
Feb 18 16:35:42 <slonopotamus> mullein: err... did you mean "installable on squeeze" or "with squeeze-based contents"?
Feb 18 16:36:16 <mullein> at the moment just installable on squeeze
Feb 18 16:36:41 <mullein> i'd prefer a debian package over running the installer script
Feb 18 16:37:30 <slonopotamus> huh. take virtualbox/vmware sdk image, it does the least pollution of host system
Feb 18 16:38:10 <mullein> yeah that's probably what i'll do
Feb 18 16:39:47 <slonopotamus> and, actually, virtualbox image is upgradable to ubuntu 10.04 (haven't tried 10.10)
Feb 18 16:45:30 <mullein> actually i'll probably do a debian lenny install into a fresh virtualbox image and then install maemo sdk in that
Feb 18 16:50:42 <kerio> lenny? D:
Feb 18 16:50:51 <kerio> it's awfully outdated!
Feb 18 16:52:10 <crashanddie> It's only a couple years old
Feb 18 16:58:16 <Venemo_N900> ~ping
Feb 18 16:58:17 <infobot> ~pong
Feb 18 17:00:47 <kerio> crashanddie: it's worse than the stable
Feb 18 17:08:01 <crashanddie> kerio, well, squeeze hasn't been out for so long
Feb 18 17:08:34 <crashanddie> I'm still installing etch machines at work :)
Feb 18 17:17:44 <GAN900> crashanddie, yo.
Feb 18 17:17:55 <crashanddie> yo
Feb 18 17:28:59 <piggz> qt, code once, run on meego, maemo, symbian, desktop and android http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvDDu9GXoLI .... very cool proof of concept
Feb 18 17:30:25 <MohammadAG> Qt isn't a concept
Feb 18 17:30:50 <piggz> MohammadAG: no, but the android bit is
Feb 18 17:31:32 <MohammadAG> ah
Feb 18 17:33:10 <slonopotamus> meh. looks like https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/curl_7.18.2-8lenny4 hanged
Feb 18 17:38:26 <Venemo_N900> piggz: how well does it actually work on android?
Feb 18 17:39:01 <piggz> Venemo_N900: no idea, just saw the video on twitter
Feb 18 17:42:42 <piggz> Venemo_N900: wow, even qt creator integration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_zPnQrM6E&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Feb 18 17:46:05 <lardman> I seem to be getting QContact stuff pulled in from /usr/include while all the rest of my includes are from opt, how does Qt get its include paths from  CONFIG += mobility12?
Feb 18 17:46:32 <Venemo_N900> hm pig
Feb 18 17:46:34 <Venemo_N900> hm piggz
Feb 18 17:46:41 <Venemo_N900> interesting
Feb 18 17:48:59 <piggz> Venemo_N900: certainly.....i like the idea of developing for n900, meego, symbian and android from one codebase
Feb 18 18:12:46 <RST38h> ...They point out that, weight-for-weight, pure silver is cheaper than most tablets, and that, like jewelery, tablets are highly thievable...
Feb 18 18:13:02 <ccooke> RST38h: it's true.
Feb 18 18:14:47 <javispedro> oth, if you try to steal your averagely nerd cs student's computer...
Feb 18 18:15:25 <GAN900> Tablets are strange
Feb 18 18:15:40 <GAN900> Who wants to hold an iPad in their hands all day?
Feb 18 18:15:50 <GAN900> Except people who think it's fashionable.
Feb 18 18:16:54 <javispedro> or apple heads ;)
Feb 18 18:17:07 <javispedro> saw lots of them, even at the microsoft presentation
Feb 18 18:17:08 <RST38h> same people
Feb 18 18:17:38 <wmarone> iPads are stupidly popular
Feb 18 18:20:03 <javispedro> I'm sick of the word exciting.
Feb 18 18:20:23 <GAN900> Exciting community ecosystems!
Feb 18 18:20:24 <javispedro> Seriously, nothing at the mwc was exciting.
Feb 18 18:20:33 <divan> Can I use uboot-power with modified kernel power46-wl1 (with wi-fi drivers)?
Feb 18 18:20:41 <javispedro> And this is a from a guy that finds setting up the virtualbox web service interesting..
Feb 18 18:20:43 <GAN900> It's amazing how marketing can turn useful words into meaningless groups of noise.
Feb 18 18:21:03 <GAN900> javispedro, not even the TI booth?
Feb 18 18:21:17 <wmarone> GAN900: hire chimps, record the screeches and hooting. Instant marketing team!
Feb 18 18:21:20 <MohammadAG> muhahaha http://i53.tinypic.com/1z4bspu.jpg
Feb 18 18:21:49 <MohammadAG> first phase btw, looks shitty
Feb 18 18:21:50 <javispedro> GAN900: I had already seen the largish Omap Zoom...
Feb 18 18:21:52 <divan> Actually I tried just now and the phone went to reboot loop, so I restored the kernel with flasher. But anyway, I would like to understand why uboot for kernel-power46 doesn't work for kernel-power46-wl1
Feb 18 18:21:57 <wmarone> MohammadAG: waht is it?
Feb 18 18:21:59 <wmarone> what*
Feb 18 18:22:01 <GAN900> javispedro, nothing newer, then?
Feb 18 18:22:10 <MohammadAG> Bluetooth messenger in Qt Mobility
Feb 18 18:22:16 <MohammadAG> should be cross platform
Feb 18 18:22:17 <javispedro> newer -- sure. exciting -- hardly...
Feb 18 18:22:19 <wmarone> cool
Feb 18 18:22:23 <GAN900> Ah
Feb 18 18:22:25 <MohammadAG> works on Ubuntu and Maemo for now
Feb 18 18:22:32 <GAN900> Android has really overwhelmed things.
Feb 18 18:22:37 <javispedro> MohammadAG: nice!
Feb 18 18:22:42 <GAN900> It's a sad time for mobile devices.
Feb 18 18:23:38 <lcuk> javispedro, every app should tell a story.
Feb 18 18:24:36 * GAN900 pictures lcuk droning on about the little engine that could.
Feb 18 18:24:43 <javispedro> MohammadAG: how does it work, which protocol are you using?
Feb 18 18:25:01 <RST38h> Rather than complain about Android, why not consider integrating it with your own platform?
Feb 18 18:25:04 <javispedro> maybe I could then make it be able to talk to older Palm PDAs and find a new life for them =)
Feb 18 18:25:09 <RST38h> I.e. Android + native SDL games for example
Feb 18 18:25:19 <RST38h> Or, native desktop + android apps
Feb 18 18:26:39 <GAN900> Anything it touches is evil.
Feb 18 18:26:51 <DocScrutinizer> patch_echo ' for ((i=0; i<256; i++)); do for led in 1 2 3 4 5 6; do echo $i >/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/leds\:lp5523\:kb$led/brightness; done; sleep 0.01; done'   >/usr/lib/mce/modules/libkeypad.so
Feb 18 18:26:55 <MohammadAG> javispedro, QBluetooth
Feb 18 18:27:04 <MohammadAG> actually, sec
Feb 18 18:27:12 <MohammadAG> laptop hibernated :/
Feb 18 18:27:21 <javispedro> don't mind
Feb 18 18:28:24 <MohammadAG> i'd appreciate it if i could disable hibernate on low battery
Feb 18 18:30:16 <javispedro> so
Feb 18 18:30:24 * javispedro goes back to setting up vbox web service :)
Feb 18 18:31:03 <MohammadAG> QRfcommServer and QBluetoothSocket
Feb 18 18:32:01 <javispedro> rfcomm, easy enough.
Feb 18 18:32:21 <javispedro> this means you will be able to talk to hyperterminal on windows ;)
Feb 18 18:32:50 <DocScrutinizer> venemo: sed -i 's/BacklightTimeout=30/BacklightTimeout=1' /etc/mce/mce.ini; stop mce; start mce
Feb 18 18:33:48 <MohammadAG> hyperterminal?
Feb 18 18:34:06 <MohammadAG> WTF is wrong with ubuntu
Feb 18 18:34:37 <wmarone> ?
Feb 18 18:34:47 <DocScrutinizer> what's wrong with windoze, heard hyperterminal got nuked years ago
Feb 18 18:35:05 <javispedro> oh, nuked.
Feb 18 18:35:07 <MohammadAG> it keeps saying battery critical
Feb 18 18:35:08 * javispedro feels old
Feb 18 18:35:13 <wmarone> what does ubuntu have to do with hyperterminal?
Feb 18 18:35:19 <MohammadAG> the battery meter says 98%
Feb 18 18:35:41 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: check voltage
Feb 18 18:35:46 <MohammadAG> that's fine DocScrutinizer
Feb 18 18:35:51 <MohammadAG> it's a problem on the software side
Feb 18 18:36:03 <DocScrutinizer> lart bme
Feb 18 18:37:06 <MohammadAG> bme?
Feb 18 18:37:09 <MohammadAG> it's my laptop :p
Feb 18 18:37:22 <javispedro> run bme on your laptop!
Feb 18 18:37:33 <javispedro> just reboot it already
Feb 18 18:37:36 * MohammadAG installs qemu-arm-static!
Feb 18 18:37:41 <MohammadAG> I did
Feb 18 18:37:45 <MohammadAG> battery meter works
Feb 18 18:37:47 <DocScrutinizer> HAH!!! plugged in charger, screen undimmed (as it usually does), NO swoosh sound, NO charging notification
Feb 18 18:37:49 <MohammadAG> but it says it has to hibernate
Feb 18 18:38:14 <MohammadAG> the first time I plugged my N900 in the charger I was like wtf
Feb 18 18:38:51 <MohammadAG> achipa, any ideas when Qt mobility 1.2 will work on Symbian/Windows/Mac?
Feb 18 18:38:58 <MohammadAG> well, the BT API
Feb 18 18:40:39 <achipa> MohammadAG: well... it was said that originally 1.2 was scheduled for meego 1.2, so that gives you a rough estimate...
Feb 18 18:41:23 <achipa> of course some beta/rc/whatever release might come earlier
Feb 18 18:41:29 <MohammadAG> hmm, April
Feb 18 18:41:38 <MohammadAG> well, good enough for me, thanks :D
Feb 18 18:42:24 <DocScrutinizer> ohwell, bme wasn't running
Feb 18 18:51:34 <ShadowJK> mce reads vbus
Feb 18 18:51:47 <lardman> achipa: I can confirm those header file issues that were reported on TMO re mixing qtm 1.0 + 1.2
Feb 18 18:51:47 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Feb 18 18:52:50 <DocScrutinizer> I'm like >:-(( for missing ALS.so in http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/mce/blobs/master/modules
Feb 18 18:53:23 <achipa> lardman: care to share a pointer ? I kinda missed the report
Feb 18 18:54:34 <achipa> lardman: though honestly I would suggest NOT to have both -dev packages
Feb 18 18:54:46 <lardman> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67588&page=2
Feb 18 18:54:58 <lardman> yeah, I've removed the 1.0 package now
Feb 18 18:56:18 <achipa> lardman: rright, but where's the original issue reported ? we only talked about imports/plugins, include never came up...
Feb 18 18:56:43 <achipa> lardman: I do know that some BT headers are missing due to an upstream makefile error, but I guess that's not the problem here
Feb 18 18:58:38 <lardman> ah, I thought I'd read something in there about the headers
Feb 18 18:58:42 <lardman> my fault then
Feb 18 18:59:09 <lardman> but there's certainly a bug wherein it makes no odds which mobility version you choose, you still get the old headers included in the build too
Feb 18 18:59:46 <lardman> so mobility gives the 1.0 headers, mobility12 gives both old and new, which causes redefinition errors
Feb 18 19:00:56 <lardman> anyway not a biggie, as I now know what the solution is
Feb 18 19:02:37 <MohammadAG> wtf http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70048
Feb 18 19:02:54 <javispedro> yet another duplicate thread..
Feb 18 19:03:51 <MohammadAG> achipa, another question, will QtM 1.1 really be pushed via the official SSU?
Feb 18 19:03:59 <MohammadAG> or should we just give up and switch that to CSSU?
Feb 18 19:06:11 <achipa> MohammadAG: no idea, really, always in motion, the future is
Feb 18 19:06:46 <Venemo_N900> hey achipa :)
Feb 18 19:06:57 <achipa> MohammadAG: though 1.1.1 has some quite significant maemo fixes so I wouldn't push anything prior to that
Feb 18 19:07:08 <achipa> hey Venemo_N900
Feb 18 19:08:28 <Venemo_N900> achipa: how're you? :)
Feb 18 19:24:39 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo_N900: :-)
Feb 18 19:24:48 <DocScrutinizer> venemo: sed -i 's/BacklightTimeout=30/BacklightTimeout=1' /etc/mce/mce.ini; stop mce; start mce
Feb 18 19:36:04 <DocScrutinizer> Feb 18 20:28:14 IroN900 cellular: csd[784]: ISI_SMS .067627> incoming_cell_broadcast(): Incoming cell broadcast
Feb 18 19:38:18 <ieatlint> heh, i just noticed that in qtcreator 2.1rc, the mobile application template has this "#elif defined(Q_WS_MAEMO_5) || defined(Q_WS_MAEMO_6)"
Feb 18 19:38:22 <ieatlint> how sad
Feb 18 19:39:49 <achipa> Venemo_N900: a bit tired, clocked 4 flights in under 24h yesterday...
Feb 18 19:40:19 <Venemo_N900> achipa: nice
Feb 18 19:42:08 <ShadowJK> maemo 6 also known as harmattan also known as "MeeGo Instance" :)
Feb 18 19:42:34 <ieatlint> yeah...
Feb 18 19:42:46 <achipa> ieatlint: there is one (mobile) template that people care about - qt quick application. all the rest is legacy (=junk)
Feb 18 19:43:05 <ieatlint> achipa: you are incorrect
Feb 18 19:43:43 <ieatlint> i can say that resolutely for 2 reasons: 1) qt quick and the c++ side are not separate at all, and it's VERY common to do at least part of your logic in straight qt (or build widgets in qt and display with qml)
Feb 18 19:44:06 <ieatlint> and 2) qml isn't even on symbian phones yet (developer preview only), and all the apps currently out and such are straight qt...
Feb 18 19:44:22 <achipa> ieatlint: urrm.... what you describe *IS* qt quick application
Feb 18 19:44:40 <ieatlint> heh, you're separating them unnecessarily
Feb 18 19:45:05 <achipa> ieatlint: as for 2), qtcreator 2.1 is QtSDK 1.1 which will be synced to the QML availability on symbian devices
Feb 18 19:45:16 <achipa> ieatlint: separating what ?
Feb 18 19:45:21 <ieatlint> qt quick from qt
Feb 18 19:45:33 <ieatlint> and qtcreator 2.1 is still rc
Feb 18 19:45:34 <achipa> ieatlint: ? it's not separate
Feb 18 19:45:53 <ieatlint> heh
Feb 18 19:46:23 <ieatlint> anyway, qml is considered this weird thing, an attempt to make qt easier... and its adoption is not across the board
Feb 18 19:46:53 <achipa> qml is part of qtquick just as qt is, nothing separate or exclusive there
Feb 18 19:47:30 <ieatlint> marketing has really gotten to you :P
Feb 18 19:47:37 <achipa> ieatlint: and as said, qtcreator 2.1 = QtSDK 1.1 = QML = Ovi = devices = etc
Feb 18 19:48:03 <achipa> ieatlint: erwhat ? :) enlighten me
Feb 18 19:49:04 <ieatlint> qt 1.1 is in tp, it's not out, and qml is not the exclusive future of qt... it's an attempt to make it easier for people to use qt
Feb 18 19:49:27 <ieatlint> qt quick is more of a term to describe applications that use qt declarative, and for practical purposes, QML == QtDeclarative == Qt Quick
Feb 18 19:49:49 <kerio> am i stupid if i want an inPulse?
Feb 18 19:49:52 <ieatlint> and it's not production
Feb 18 19:50:15 <ieatlint> it's planned for the major symbian release coming out (and yes, i know that maemo pr1.3 supports it, but it's not considered production still)
Feb 18 19:50:40 <ieatlint> and i know that >4.7, marked stable, supports it too... but it's still too new
Feb 18 19:52:34 <achipa> ieatlint: okay, so to clear things up. QtSDK has nothing to with any of these. It serves as integrative purpose, and will be declared 'released' when all parts/services/firmwares have come up to par with the functionality provided
Feb 18 19:53:00 <ieatlint> in the sense of official qt development, no
Feb 18 19:53:13 <ieatlint> but you're kidding yourself if you think people are going to adopt something that the sdk barely has support for
Feb 18 19:53:23 <ieatlint> and that's where you said people only care about qt quick
Feb 18 19:53:58 <achipa> ieatlint: no, I did not say that.
Feb 18 19:54:04 <ieatlint> additionally, for mobile devices, as was the context, qml only has support for the n900... for symbian, there is no production support for qml
Feb 18 19:54:06 <achipa> ieatlint: read back carefully what I said
Feb 18 19:54:09 <ieatlint> and no date for it to arrive
Feb 18 19:54:41 <ieatlint> you called qml the only part people care about and the rest "junk"
Feb 18 19:54:45 <ieatlint> for mobile
Feb 18 19:54:51 <achipa> TEMPLATES
Feb 18 19:55:02 <achipa> (MOBILE) TEMPLATES at that
Feb 18 19:55:22 <ieatlint> :P
Feb 18 19:56:26 <alterego> And MeeGo
Feb 18 19:57:22 <DocScrutinizer> LOL - /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input* was at 28 real, then I gave it a shot of icespray and it froze at 17, now no matter what I do it stays there
Feb 18 19:58:51 * DocScrutinizer wonders if that's the silicon bug mentioned by TI
Feb 18 19:59:51 <achipa> ieatlint: but since you opened that particular can of worms - qml *is* the de facto future of qt mobile development, *especially* on symbian
Feb 18 20:00:08 <ieatlint> according to marketing, yes
Feb 18 20:00:41 <DocScrutinizer> looks really scary, when the thermal management doesn't see any other core temp than 17°C anymore, even during flash playback of videos
Feb 18 20:00:42 <achipa> ieatlint: so, what's the largely embraced alternative ? qwidgets ? orbit ?
Feb 18 20:00:58 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: interesting
Feb 18 20:01:12 <ieatlint> achipa: based on what i've seen first hand, straight qt
Feb 18 20:01:30 <achipa> ieatlint: define 'straight qt'
Feb 18 20:01:44 <ieatlint> no qml
Feb 18 20:01:52 <ieatlint> widgets, qgraphicsview to some extent
Feb 18 20:02:20 <achipa> nobody works on qwidgets
Feb 18 20:02:28 <RST38h> Doc: It's a zombie CPU!
Feb 18 20:02:28 <achipa> and qml IS qgraphicsview made easy
Feb 18 20:02:28 <lcuk> People around the world use various languages!   QML is a bit long winded, I prefer English :P
Feb 18 20:02:46 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo_N900: what? the temp thing or kbd-BL?
Feb 18 20:03:07 <ieatlint> achipa: what's your basis on your assertion that no one uses qwidgets?
Feb 18 20:03:10 * lcuk wonders what real people would do if they had to talk in markup language
Feb 18 20:03:25 <javispedro> bash Microsoft.
Feb 18 20:03:27 <ds3> <b>YiKeS!</b>
Feb 18 20:03:28 <ieatlint> and qml is more like "let's throw some weird ass pseudo-javascript crap into the mix!"
Feb 18 20:03:39 <rm_work> <em>lol</em>
Feb 18 20:03:41 <ieatlint> most developers are kinda staring at it and asking wtf
Feb 18 20:04:11 <ieatlint> the docs are mediocre, there are no books, and the training materials are in their first draft with major errors
Feb 18 20:04:22 <lcuk> qml question: does it use the same javascript engine used in the html web thingy?
Feb 18 20:04:31 <ieatlint> lcuk: yes
Feb 18 20:04:33 <ieatlint> exact same one
Feb 18 20:04:52 <lcuk> so, QML is indeed more optimal!
Feb 18 20:04:54 <achipa> ieatlint: qwidgets basically don't exist on symbian (=so bad it hurts)
Feb 18 20:05:05 <lcuk> since QML is shorter than HTML
Feb 18 20:05:12 <rm_work> <hr />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<em>lcuk</em>: sup?<hr />
Feb 18 20:05:17 <ieatlint> achipa: that's funny, i'm employed to work on mobile apps for symbian that use qwidgets
Feb 18 20:05:42 <DocScrutinizer> <¡>I'm talking like this <style color=red> all the time</color></¡>
Feb 18 20:06:09 <achipa> ieatlint: and, again, you're twisting my words, I never said nobody USES qwidgets, but that nobody WORKS ON qwidgets
Feb 18 20:06:24 <MohammadAG> uh
Feb 18 20:06:33 <MohammadAG> QWidgets don't exist on symbian?
Feb 18 20:06:39 <ieatlint> you said they "basically don't exist on symbian" ... and i'm telling you not only do they exist, i use them daily
Feb 18 20:06:55 <achipa> (=so bad it hurts)
Feb 18 20:07:07 <ieatlint> and seeing as i'm a contractor working on half a dozen projects over the course of a week from other companies, i can tell you that using qwidgets is the de facto method of symbian qt dev
Feb 18 20:07:48 <achipa> ieatlint: which applications are we talking about ?
Feb 18 20:07:52 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG: they exist, but look very ugly
Feb 18 20:08:04 <ieatlint> i'm not able to say
Feb 18 20:08:04 <achipa> ieatlint: I kinda do some Qt development myself occasionaly
Feb 18 20:08:07 <ieatlint> mobile apps
Feb 18 20:08:19 * javispedro fails to grasp what is left from Qt when you remove "widgets"
Feb 18 20:08:29 <ieatlint> javispedro: qgraphicsview
Feb 18 20:08:55 <Venemo_N900> javispedro: QtGui is just one module
Feb 18 20:09:05 <ieatlint> qgraphicsview itself is a widget, but only to just display shit that isn't a widget
Feb 18 20:09:13 <lcuk> javispedro, Qt-Mobility
Feb 18 20:09:13 <achipa> ieatlint: I talked to a few hundres symbian app developers, and they don't seem to share your sentiment
Feb 18 20:09:17 <RST38h> javispedro: QMobility!
Feb 18 20:09:32 <ieatlint> achipa: i'm impressed you found a few hundred symbian devs :P
Feb 18 20:09:34 <lcuk> a serious attempt at cross compatible simple APIs for common apps
Feb 18 20:09:58 <javispedro> so, funnily enough, it won't abstract the UI toolkit but the accelerometer and on? :P
Feb 18 20:10:01 <ieatlint> in truth, we're both arguing what the hypothetical future of a dead platform is though, haha
Feb 18 20:10:19 <achipa> ieatlint: might have to do something with my day-job :)
Feb 18 20:10:24 <MohammadAG> dead platform?
Feb 18 20:10:33 <MohammadAG> Qt is far from dead
Feb 18 20:10:35 * RST38h laughs diabolically
Feb 18 20:10:35 <ieatlint> symbian
Feb 18 20:10:39 <RST38h> no, symbian
Feb 18 20:10:42 <MohammadAG> oh, that
Feb 18 20:10:51 <MohammadAG> yeah, it's dead
Feb 18 20:10:56 <achipa> 'mortally wounded' would probably describe it better
Feb 18 20:11:13 <MohammadAG> needs a medic then :p
Feb 18 20:11:15 <ieatlint> achipa: yeah, we're both arguing with info from our day jobs, and dancing around specifics to back up our claims due to certain contracts i suspect
Feb 18 20:11:49 <ieatlint> so far the biggest push i've seen for qml has been from marketing guys
Feb 18 20:12:00 <ieatlint> and i don't trust a word they say
Feb 18 20:12:38 <achipa> ieatlint: no contract involved, and I'm not a marketing dude
Feb 18 20:12:55 <ieatlint> that said, quim gil, a nokia organiser for meego conferences, insists that "as far as he knows" the meego conference this spring is on, with nokia as a partner
Feb 18 20:13:06 <ieatlint> achipa: i know you're not a marketing guy... you know too much about qt
Feb 18 20:13:59 <ieatlint> he says that registration was supposed to open last monday, and claims they delayed it because they felt there was "too much going on" to announce it, but expects it'll be officially open for registration in the next week, maybe two
Feb 18 20:14:00 <DocScrutinizer> Friiiiiiiidaaaaay! wait for me!
Feb 18 20:14:23 <ieatlint> and an intel guy stood next to him nodding a lot
Feb 18 20:15:15 <DocScrutinizer> what else he got left to do
Feb 18 20:15:23 <ieatlint> drink
Feb 18 20:15:32 <achipa> could be doing both y'know
Feb 18 20:15:32 <DocScrutinizer> maybe shake his head in dispair
Feb 18 20:15:32 <achipa> :D
Feb 18 20:15:51 <ieatlint> yeah... a bunch of meego people are about to quit i'm told
Feb 18 20:15:56 <javispedro> or keep bashing microsoft.
Feb 18 20:16:20 <ieatlint> not being laid off (yet?), but are too upset with their project being subjugated at best, cancelled at worst
Feb 18 20:17:12 <GAN900> ieatlint, we all know who qgil is. :P
Feb 18 20:17:20 <ieatlint> GAN900: just in case :P
Feb 18 20:17:23 <javispedro> am I the only one that just discovered and is finds extremely surprising that despite all the hype qwidgets -- probably the most known feature of Qt -- "look ugly" under symbian?
Feb 18 20:17:35 <GAN900> ieatlint, ESPECIALLY achipa. *g*
Feb 18 20:17:38 <ieatlint> i hope the conference still goes on
Feb 18 20:17:55 <GAN900> I can't imagine it wouldn't.
Feb 18 20:17:59 <achipa> GAN900: I might, indeed :P
Feb 18 20:18:56 <DocScrutinizer> Information on qgil (account qgil): Registered : Dec 08 21:02:27 2006 (4 years, 10 weeks, 2 days, 23:15:30, Last seen  : Feb 17 02:32:08 2011 (1 day, 17:45:49 ago)
Feb 18 20:19:30 <ieatlint> achipa: mind if i ask where you're based?
Feb 18 20:19:30 <achipa> javispedro: ieatlint seems to disagree :) I saw them with my own eyes, and am kinda suprised people would WANT to use that over qml (apart from religious reasons)
Feb 18 20:20:34 <ieatlint> actually a lot of what i've seen is not using things like pushbuttons, but things like redoing the paintevent to insert a pixmap so it doesn't look so much like ass
Feb 18 20:21:34 <achipa> ieatlint: yes, well, that's not really qwidgets then, more like self-implemented-ui-kit (finland, btw)
Feb 18 20:21:51 <javispedro> hmm..
Feb 18 20:21:53 <ieatlint> splitting hairs there
Feb 18 20:22:06 <DocScrutinizer> sudo make me a sandwich!
Feb 18 20:22:15 <ieatlint> what i can't believe is the lack if kinetic scrolling in scrollareas
Feb 18 20:22:35 <achipa> ieatlint: and what gets you is not the buttons, but things like spinboxes, sliders, scrolls... exactly
Feb 18 20:23:01 <achipa> though you can trick your way around that
Feb 18 20:23:11 <ieatlint> yeah, but qml is a joke at the moment for many of those... you have to design your own stuff
Feb 18 20:23:52 <trumee> will updating glib in fremantle break everything else?
Feb 18 20:23:58 <javispedro> ieatlint: I guess that's the point...
Feb 18 20:24:08 <achipa> ieatlint: symbian components are progressing nicely and you have a fairly usable subset
Feb 18 20:24:22 <ieatlint> i'll be very curious to see them
Feb 18 20:24:49 <ieatlint> i also feel at the moment that with the symbian components coming out, making a qml app now is going to be reinventing the wheel only to end up with something that is nonstandard
Feb 18 20:24:52 <achipa> ieatlint: I agree it's not production level, but in all honesty, I wouldn't call qwidgets on symbian production level either
Feb 18 20:24:55 <trumee> i thought of building latest version of telepathy-sofiasip but it needs updates telepathy-glib which further needs updated glib
Feb 18 20:25:13 <trumee> s/updates/updated
Feb 18 20:25:26 <ieatlint> achipa: i've seem a couple very decent iphone app ports that looked identical in symbian based on qwidgets
Feb 18 20:25:35 <ieatlint> so it's possible
Feb 18 20:25:43 <ieatlint> but yeah, it requires you reinvent the wheel a bit there too
Feb 18 20:26:01 <achipa> ieatlint: http://confusingdevelopers.wordpress.com/
Feb 18 20:26:09 <achipa> :P
Feb 18 20:26:47 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: you're aware telepathy-sofiiasip won't change any little bit of how the system handles an inbound RTP stream?
Feb 18 20:27:03 <achipa> ieatlint: hey, I'm not saying you absolutely totally cannot make a decent app in qwidgets, only that it's really painful to do and is a very specific solution - qml, hype or not, *is* a lot better in that regard, even now
Feb 18 20:27:23 <ieatlint> i'm unconvinced... but we'll see
Feb 18 20:27:25 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: yes, i am aware of that. But telepathy-sofiasip has fixes for some very annoying things
Feb 18 20:27:41 <DocScrutinizer> ok, just felt like mentioning it
Feb 18 20:27:53 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: like this, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8615
Feb 18 20:27:55 <povbot> Bug 8615: telepathy-sofiasip uses lots of memory and causes the phone to swap
Feb 18 20:28:06 <DocScrutinizer> aaah yes
Feb 18 20:28:20 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: atm N900 is incapable of talking to FreeSwitch
Feb 18 20:28:24 <DocScrutinizer> that in turn WILL change system performance on RTP as well
Feb 18 20:29:03 <GAN900> Wish h-d had more inertia on the desktop scrolling.
Feb 18 20:29:14 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: what i find hilarious is that Collabora uses FreeSwitch as their pbx, and it is broken on N900
Feb 18 20:29:29 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Feb 18 20:30:17 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: MohammadAG tweaked that long ago iirc
Feb 18 20:30:28 <DocScrutinizer> might be simple
Feb 18 20:30:44 <MohammadAG> i did the app menu
Feb 18 20:31:13 <MohammadAG> GAN900, what do you mean by more inertia on the desktop?
Feb 18 20:31:15 <trumee> MohammadAG: do you plan to update glib in CSSU?
Feb 18 20:31:27 <MohammadAG> wouldn't that break things?
Feb 18 20:31:58 <trumee> MohammadAG: Not sure about that myself
Feb 18 20:32:45 <trumee> MohammadAG: But telepathy-sofiasip needs updated telepathy-glib which further needs a later glib
Feb 18 20:33:20 <DocScrutinizer> if done correctly you can install both versions of glib concurrently, I'd guess
Feb 18 20:35:32 <GAN900> MohammadAG, for scrolling panel-to-panel.
Feb 18 20:35:36 <MohammadAG> ah
Feb 18 20:35:48 <GAN900> It's a pain to swipe from one desktop to the next since you have to go so far.
Feb 18 20:35:55 <GAN900> Be nice if you could sort of toss it.
Feb 18 20:37:04 <MohammadAG> GAN900, can you go into edit mode (gear icon), then swipe only a small bit from outside the screen?
Feb 18 20:37:14 <MohammadAG> like the browser + mouse pointer
Feb 18 20:37:18 <MohammadAG> is that what you want?
Feb 18 20:37:35 <GAN900> Oooh
Feb 18 20:37:46 <GAN900> Yeah, that's not bad at all.
Feb 18 20:58:11 <trumee> MohammadAG: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=950055&postcount=51
Feb 18 21:30:42 <MohammadAG> http://i52.tinypic.com/x1etds.jpg
Feb 18 21:31:25 <MohammadAG> http://i54.tinypic.com/i55f9f.jpg <-- needs work
Feb 18 21:32:08 <vi__> wtf am i looking at mo?
Feb 18 21:33:00 <vi__> is there a stable version of opera mobile for n900?
Feb 18 21:33:26 <vi__> the one from the repo crashaes as soon as i try and choose any links
Feb 18 21:33:30 <MohammadAG> vi__, hildon-desktop
Feb 18 21:33:39 <MohammadAG> modified to show 4 lines and 6 icons in the app launcher
Feb 18 21:34:07 <lcuk> you need to modify the spacings MohammadAG
Feb 18 21:34:12 <lcuk> but cool beans indeed
Feb 18 21:34:15 <MohammadAG> lcuk, yeah, I noticed
Feb 18 21:34:19 <piggz> vi__: works ok for me
Feb 18 21:34:30 <vi__> mmm, i like it.
Feb 18 21:34:33 <ShadowJK> works ok for me too
Feb 18 21:34:36 <vi__> proceed
Feb 18 21:34:44 <frals> man i suck at times
Feb 18 21:34:53 <frals> forgot to ship the new code in last update of fmms
Feb 18 21:34:57 <lcuk> :) hi frals
Feb 18 21:35:00 <frals> only took me 5 days to realise it :D
Feb 18 21:35:00 <MohammadAG> apparently, it's dynamic
Feb 18 21:35:01 <MohammadAG>   guint icons_width = HD_LAUNCHER_TILE_WIDTH * HD_LAUNCHER_GRID_MAX_COLUMNS +
Feb 18 21:35:01 <MohammadAG>                       h_spacing * (HD_LAUNCHER_GRID_MAX_COLUMNS-1);
Feb 18 21:35:48 <frals> !seen w00t
Feb 18 21:35:53 <frals> ~seen w00t
Feb 18 21:35:59 <frals> hm, maybe not
Feb 18 21:36:09 <vi__> mohammed i have an suggestion
Feb 18 21:36:18 <frals> hi lcuk, sup?
Feb 18 21:36:18 <MohammadAG> infobot, seen w00t_
Feb 18 21:36:25 * MohammadAG shoots the bot
Feb 18 21:36:26 <infobot> w00t <~w00t@freenode/podcast/presenter/w00t> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 75d 2h 13m 58s ago, saying: ':p'.
Feb 18 21:36:27 <infobot> w00t_ <~w00t@freenode/podcast/presenter/w00t> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 5h 10m 52s ago, saying: 'yes'.
Feb 18 21:36:50 <MohammadAG> hmm, am I lagging, or is infoboot very slow today
Feb 18 21:36:54 <MohammadAG> vi__ shoot
Feb 18 21:37:06 <vi__> there is no right click on n900
Feb 18 21:37:12 <lcuk> frals, just mucking about with desktop background
Feb 18 21:37:14 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/20110218_024.jpg
Feb 18 21:37:26 <MohammadAG> oh but there is
Feb 18 21:37:31 <MohammadAG> it's remapped to tap and hold
Feb 18 21:37:39 <MohammadAG> well, at least in apps that support it
Feb 18 21:37:41 <vi__> dont talk about tap and hold!
Feb 18 21:37:57 <MohammadAG> microB's URL bar supports right clicks (seriously, it shows a context menu with a BT mouse)
Feb 18 21:38:21 <frals> lcuk: :)
Feb 18 21:39:00 <kerio> cool
Feb 18 21:39:09 <vi__> text input fields also react to right clicks
Feb 18 21:39:23 <kerio> we need a way to make the touchscreen recognize different fingers
Feb 18 21:39:25 <vi__> battle for wesnoth needs right clicks
Feb 18 21:39:33 <vi__> so my idea is...
Feb 18 21:39:46 <vi__> use proximiy sensor as a modifier
Feb 18 21:40:01 <kerio> i want the touchscreen to act as in i'm rightclicking when i tap with the other end of the stylus
Feb 18 21:40:27 <lolcat> kerio: How would that be possible?
Feb 18 21:40:37 <MohammadAG> with a digitizer
Feb 18 21:40:44 <vi__> i think it can be done with dbus-scipts and an xmodmap command to swap the mouse buttons
Feb 18 21:40:46 <lcuk> kerio, n800 had detection for stylus vs finger
Feb 18 21:40:47 <MohammadAG> current hw doesn't support it
Feb 18 21:40:58 <lcuk> so if you pressed with stylus, it brought up one menu
Feb 18 21:41:02 <vi__> what do you think mo?
Feb 18 21:41:06 <lcuk> if you used finger it brought up a different one
Feb 18 21:41:18 <MohammadAG> I'm not sure how X works tbh
Feb 18 21:41:19 <ShadowJK> N810 too, but it rarely works on N810 for me
Feb 18 21:41:19 <lcuk> it worked a lot of the time happily
Feb 18 21:41:26 <kerio> how about ctrl+tap?
Feb 18 21:41:28 <kerio> it works on os x
Feb 18 21:41:33 <maheshk> guys any one know how to measure GPU performance on N900?
Feb 18 21:41:35 <vi__> dude your spamming up my idea with this noobery
Feb 18 21:41:37 <MohammadAG> lcuk, how did that work o_O
Feb 18 21:41:49 <kerio> vi__: the proximity sensor is not abusable like that
Feb 18 21:41:55 <lcuk> MohammadAG, point spot (stylus) versus splodge with finger
Feb 18 21:41:57 <lolcat> kerio: Why not?
Feb 18 21:41:59 <kerio> it's powered down like half the time
Feb 18 21:42:07 <MohammadAG> kerio, lies
Feb 18 21:42:12 <lcuk> different pressure levels and motion in the press
Feb 18 21:42:17 <vi__> uh stfu
Feb 18 21:42:20 <MohammadAG> it's always on
Feb 18 21:42:30 <kerio> oh k
Feb 18 21:42:32 <MohammadAG> get an infrared camera
Feb 18 21:42:37 <MohammadAG> film the N900
Feb 18 21:42:44 <MohammadAG> it shows the proximity sensor's light
Feb 18 21:42:51 <kerio> yeah i'll get an infrared camera just for the purpose of figuring out if the proximity sensor is on
Feb 18 21:43:01 <kerio> (i know a cheap webcam would work)
Feb 18 21:43:05 <MohammadAG> well, the N86 cam also showed it
Feb 18 21:43:23 <MohammadAG> light is a bad term to use of course
Feb 18 21:43:24 <lolcat> Doesn't any digital camera show infared ligth?
Feb 18 21:43:26 <maheshk> alterego, there?
Feb 18 21:43:28 <vi__> mohammed is it possible to use proximity sensor as a modifier ala map it to control?
Feb 18 21:43:47 <MohammadAG> of course, how otoh, is beyond me atm
Feb 18 21:43:57 <GAN900> lolcat, no.
Feb 18 21:43:58 <vi__> lol
Feb 18 21:44:05 <vi__> ok mate
Feb 18 21:44:05 <GAN900> Many have IR filters.
Feb 18 21:44:45 <GAN900> lolcat, well, technically you're right.
Feb 18 21:44:49 <lcuk> frals, are you drinking tonight?
Feb 18 21:45:04 <GAN900> But most people don't have the tools to remove the filters without damaging their cameras.
Feb 18 21:45:06 <frals> lcuk: nah, too friggin cold to be anywhere but in bed, why? :D
Feb 18 21:45:28 <frals> lcuk: only had one beer with valerio earlier at your pizza place ;)
Feb 18 21:45:32 <lcuk> just wondering, I am on Guinness tonight
Feb 18 21:45:48 <lcuk> my son goes on holiday tomorrow, and for once - I can't wait for my birthday :)
Feb 18 21:45:57 <lcuk> I am going to enjoy visiting the MOSI
Feb 18 21:46:12 <lcuk> frals, :) please smile at the guy for me
Feb 18 21:46:23 <lcuk> I will drop in for a kebab with him again soon.
Feb 18 21:46:28 <frals> hehe
Feb 18 21:47:11 <lolcat> GAN900: It shows my IR remote
Feb 18 21:51:19 <GAN900> lolcat, which camera?
Feb 18 21:54:57 <nox-> moin
Feb 18 21:56:59 <lolcat> GAN900: Any camera
Feb 18 22:03:22 <GAN900> lolcat, we're going around in circles here.
Feb 18 22:03:40 <GAN900> All digital sensors are capable of "seeing" IR.
Feb 18 22:03:42 <lolcat> GAN900: Round round round like a record
Feb 18 22:04:02 <GAN900> Most of them, through software or glass IR filters, are prevented from doing so.
Feb 18 22:04:06 <lolcat> GAN900: Take your tv remote up against the camera on the N900
Feb 18 22:04:09 <lolcat> You will see it
Feb 18 22:04:22 <GAN900> lolcat, OK, so the camera in question is the N900 camera.
Feb 18 22:04:30 <lolcat> Put it against a canon camera
Feb 18 22:04:32 <ZogG> i hope meego device is not last and it would have multitouch resistence scren =)
Feb 18 22:05:00 <GAN900> lolcat, my 7D and S95 both have IR filters.
Feb 18 22:05:13 <mullein> what is a good external gps that i can connect to my n900?
Feb 18 22:05:17 <lolcat> GAN900: I have newer found a camera that can't see iR
Feb 18 22:05:26 <lolcat> mullein: It has an internal gps
Feb 18 22:05:27 <GAN900> ZogG, I think resistive has been pretty well killed by Apple.
Feb 18 22:05:38 <mullein> i know
Feb 18 22:05:51 <mullein> and when i was in the woods it didn't fix its location after hours
Feb 18 22:06:00 <mullein> i want something better for my hikes :)
Feb 18 22:06:03 <lolcat> How did apple kill resistive screens+
Feb 18 22:06:04 <lolcat> ?
Feb 18 22:06:43 <GAN900> By making everybody think they want capacitive screens
Feb 18 22:06:49 <lcuk> which apple devices had resistive screens ?
Feb 18 22:07:11 <lolcat> The N900 has resistive screen?
Feb 18 22:07:17 <GAN900> So all of the manufacturers are tripping all over themselves to release only capacitive devices.
Feb 18 22:07:20 <GAN900> lcuk, Newton.
Feb 18 22:07:26 <lcuk> no, the N900 has a high precision screen.
Feb 18 22:07:32 <GAN900> lolcat, yes, as did all other Maemo devices for it.
Feb 18 22:07:42 <lcuk> GAN900, lol
Feb 18 22:07:43 <lolcat> Wish I had a high precision thumb
Feb 18 22:07:51 <GAN900> lcuk, which uses resistive touch technology.
Feb 18 22:07:56 <lcuk> lolcat, cut your nails right
Feb 18 22:07:58 <GAN900> lcuk, you would LOVE the Newton.
Feb 18 22:08:03 <lcuk> GAN900, I know
Feb 18 22:08:36 <lcuk> GAN900, did you see, I changed my background picture http://liqbase.net/20110218_024.jpg
Feb 18 22:08:49 <lcuk> is a photograph I took on holiday in England :)
Feb 18 22:09:01 <lolcat> lcuk: Huh?
Feb 18 22:09:23 <ZogG> GAN900 until we didn't have multitouch resistence
Feb 18 22:09:43 <lcuk> its not the technology, its what you do with it.
Feb 18 22:09:51 <lcuk> s/its/it's/
Feb 18 22:09:51 <infobot> lcuk meant: it's not the technology, its what you do with it.
Feb 18 22:09:55 <GAN900> ZogG, Stantum has been available for a few years now, yet nobody has shipped a single product.
Feb 18 22:09:59 <lolcat> Capacitive screens only can be touched with fingers?
Feb 18 22:10:08 <lcuk> *warm fingers
Feb 18 22:10:09 <GAN900> Or pork sausages.
Feb 18 22:10:17 <GAN900> Have to be grade aa, though.
Feb 18 22:10:20 <lolcat> That is boring
Feb 18 22:10:43 <GAN900> lcuk, that is a picture in need of cropping.
Feb 18 22:10:52 <ZogG> lcuk nope, before we could have only fake software multitouch
Feb 18 22:11:35 <ZogG> GAN900 a lot of money?
Feb 18 22:12:43 <ZogG> but resistance is good cause it can know the strength and accuracy and how thin/wide line should be
Feb 18 22:12:45 <GAN900> ZogG, no real market interest.
Feb 18 22:13:42 <ZogG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfh7WGNk4KU
Feb 18 22:13:47 <alterego> maheshk: yup wassup?
Feb 18 22:16:33 <alterego> maheshk: you usually measure performance with benchmarks
Feb 18 22:17:09 <maheshk> alterego, no tool/command to check check GPU utilization?
Feb 18 22:17:49 <alterego> I don't believe so, no.
Feb 18 22:18:12 <alterego> You mean like % utilisation?
Feb 18 22:18:23 <alterego> I'm not sure it even makes that much sense.
Feb 18 22:19:39 <alterego> Basically when it comes to gpu stuff, you try and maintain a certain framerate.
Feb 18 22:20:26 <alterego> So if you're pushing it too hard you fps will drop, otherwise you should get a constant interval.
Feb 18 22:23:20 <alterego> I suppose in theory, you could set up and render an empty scene and hammer it, do as many buffer swaps you can and measure the performance, then as you add polygons or enable multisampling, you can use the frame drops to calculate a pseudo percentage.
Feb 18 22:23:37 <alterego> But I'm still not sure that makes much sense :)
Feb 18 22:25:29 <maheshk> true, actually I disabled some accelerated compositing features in my video player and wanted to see if its still using GPU
Feb 18 22:25:48 <maheshk> even if not exact % but just to make sure
Feb 18 22:28:14 <maheshk> alterego, I guess it is still using GPU because my CPU doesnt go beyond 30% :)
Feb 18 22:28:51 <alterego> maheshk: it will use the gpu if you're telling it to. How are you rendering your video?
Feb 18 22:29:23 <maheshk> qgraphicscene + qvideoitem
Feb 18 22:29:34 <maheshk> thats all I care about.. using qtmobility apis basically
Feb 18 22:29:43 <alterego> With a QGLWidget as the viewport?
Feb 18 22:29:52 <maheshk> so it can either go with raptor or openGL in these case
Feb 18 22:30:56 <maheshk> not sure about QGLWidget though.. any easy way? I think i can GDB on device right? as long as i have debug binaries
Feb 18 22:32:09 <alterego> Well, you create a QGraphicsView, you setScene(scene) then you setViewport(new QGLWidget)
Feb 18 22:32:25 <alterego> That's the short version,you obviously need to do it properly ;)
Feb 18 22:33:59 <alterego> There's a nice example of it in the docs about the Qt Graphics Framework.
Feb 18 22:33:59 <trumee> anybody using lxp wifi drivers? Is it possible to get Fapman working with his updated osso-wlan package?
Feb 18 22:40:34 <alterego> Anyhow, bed time. g'night folks.
Feb 18 22:41:25 <kaie> hi. "nokia n900 german version", do I need "global" firmware? (out of "usa", "middle east+africa", "uk", "global")
Feb 18 22:41:45 <psycho_oreos> yes]
Feb 18 22:42:13 <kaie> thx
Feb 18 22:42:29 <psycho_oreos> keine problem
Feb 18 22:42:33 <kaie> :)
Feb 18 22:45:23 * alterego would really like OpenCL support for the pvr sgx in the N900
Feb 18 22:47:26 * alterego sighs, doesn't look likely,
Feb 18 22:47:52 * alterego goes back to dreaming of GPU accelerated FFTs and facial recognition algorithms.
Feb 18 22:49:50 <alterego> Could probably do it in a fragment shader, oh well.
Feb 18 22:50:03 * alterego zzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZZZZ
Feb 18 22:50:19 <MohammadAG> night alterego
Feb 18 23:23:34 <Pillum> anyone here?
Feb 18 23:23:43 <OkropNick> :)
Feb 18 23:24:48 <Pillum> are we able to develop n900 widgets only with qt creator
Feb 18 23:24:54 <Pillum> so without scratchbox?
Feb 18 23:25:09 <OkropNick> I don't know
Feb 18 23:25:31 <OkropNick> I'm just N900 owner
Feb 18 23:25:38 <Pillum> lol
Feb 18 23:25:47 <OkropNick> :)
Feb 18 23:26:24 <Pillum> so,
Feb 18 23:26:26 <Pillum> http://maemo.org/static/5/5465fe5633bf11deb806433817206cf16cf1_modest-beta.png
Feb 18 23:26:32 <Pillum> do you know this theme?
Feb 18 23:26:37 <OkropNick> but probably it's possible, QT belongs to Nokia
Feb 18 23:27:25 <Pillum> yeah, but the official maemo 5 sdk is scratchbox
Feb 18 23:27:57 <OkropNick> Sorry, I'm just PHP coder :|
Feb 18 23:29:32 <OkropNick> I'm here mostly to "listening", not to speak
Feb 18 23:29:37 <Pillum> :)
Feb 18 23:35:18 <RaveniquE> Hello! :)
Feb 18 23:35:49 <RaveniquE> anybody alive here?
Feb 18 23:36:41 <OkropNick> no, I'm just a common  bot...
Feb 18 23:37:48 <RaveniquE> cool. I need some help for playing videos, here I wrote it : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70066
Feb 18 23:41:03 <OkropNick> Sorry, I read your post, but I don't know how to help you. I'm going to sleep. Good Luck!
Feb 18 23:41:41 <nox-> maybe try mplayer?
Feb 18 23:52:35 <RaveniquE> I did :)
Feb 18 23:53:08 <RaveniquE> as I told in topic, tried mplayer with KMPlayer, but it throws me up to KMlayer menu after a few secs
Feb 18 23:56:00 <psycho_oreos> there's also smplayer in the repos
Feb 18 23:57:14 <RaveniquE> I will try it, but main problem is default media player can't play even default videos!
Feb 18 23:57:36 <RaveniquE> (I mean the videos that comes with N900)
Feb 18 23:57:54 <nox-> huh
Feb 18 23:58:39 <psycho_oreos> that could be an issue with the extra-decoders that you have installed, something didn't work out right. The default media player doesn't depend on mplayer
Feb 18 23:58:55 <RaveniquE> I think so
Feb 18 23:59:26 <RaveniquE> but, is there a code to check my codecs are fine?
Feb 19 00:00:24 <psycho_oreos> dpkg -l extra-decoders ?
Feb 19 00:01:20 <psycho_oreos> nah its called decoders-support
Feb 19 00:01:37 <RaveniquE> I uninstalled it
Feb 19 00:01:55 <RaveniquE> should I reinstall it?
Feb 19 00:02:28 <RaveniquE> seems like it corrupted my main codecs on N900
Feb 19 00:02:28 <psycho_oreos> mm hard to say, might be a good idea
Feb 19 00:02:50 <RaveniquE> will try asap, a break for WC lol
Feb 19 00:06:16 <psycho_oreos> the decoders-support package doesn't really add any extra decoders, according to the list of files provided by that package, it just adds an xml file detailing the extra extensions and their specific descriptors
Feb 19 00:11:07 <RaveniquE> will try it anyway..
Feb 19 00:12:10 <RaveniquE> it needs 3,7 Mb though
Feb 19 00:13:41 <psycho_oreos> actually my bad, it depends on a whole bunch of other gstreamer plugins
Feb 19 00:14:02 <RaveniquE> ok, done installing, let's check
Feb 19 00:14:53 <RaveniquE> nothing changed
Feb 19 00:15:11 <RaveniquE> where is the codecs in N900?
Feb 19 00:15:17 <RaveniquE> *are
Feb 19 00:15:52 <alterego> I didn't think mplayer used gst ...
Feb 19 00:16:05 * alterego wanders off again
Feb 19 00:17:09 <psycho_oreos> osso media player uses gst, mplayer has its own library
Feb 19 00:17:39 <psycho_oreos> might be /usr/lib/gstreamer0.10/
Feb 19 00:19:59 <RaveniquE> yeah, there're tons of files like libgstnokiamp3dec.so
Feb 19 00:20:18 <psycho_oreos> 166 files :)
Feb 19 00:20:44 <RaveniquE> how to check the number with filebox?
Feb 19 00:21:19 <psycho_oreos> I don't use filebox, I use ssh :) ls -l| wc -l
Feb 19 00:21:59 <psycho_oreos> actually I made some mistakes though with the counting of files, its 164 because I did ls -al which includes the directories . and .. which are irrelevant
Feb 19 00:23:24 <RaveniquE> what is the size of libgstavi.so?
Feb 19 00:23:33 <RaveniquE> mine is 71.13kb
Feb 19 00:24:12 <psycho_oreos> 72k
Feb 19 00:24:21 <psycho_oreos> s/k/K/
Feb 19 00:24:46 <RaveniquE> hm.. seems size is ok too
Feb 19 00:26:43 <psycho_oreos> comparing by size doesn't really help, especially it might even be a few bytes off and yet the number is still rounded off
Feb 19 00:27:20 <psycho_oreos> I can't remember what was needed to be done when installing decoders-support, I do recall trackerd was needed to be restarted a few times.
Feb 19 00:29:11 <sleepee> so i'm having some trouble updating my n900 to pr 1.3.  i can't do ota update and nokia software updater/ovi suite doesn't install on any OS i have.  am i out of luck?
Feb 19 00:29:14 <RaveniquE> can you check the version of mafw-gst-renderer version on your device?
Feb 19 00:29:30 <RaveniquE> no, you should try flasher
Feb 19 00:29:43 <RaveniquE> what is your operating system?
Feb 19 00:30:06 <psycho_oreos> 20.2010.36-2
Feb 19 00:30:22 <RaveniquE> sleepee : http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher
Feb 19 00:30:32 <sleepee> i have fedora/win2K3 on my desktop and mint/virus-ridden win7 on my laptop.
Feb 19 00:30:34 <psycho_oreos> oops
Feb 19 00:30:52 <RaveniquE> psycho_oreos : I need mafw-gst-renderer version :)
Feb 19 00:30:57 <RaveniquE> in fapman
Feb 19 00:31:22 <psycho_oreos> RaveniquE, 0.3.2010.24-1+0m5
Feb 19 00:31:28 <sleepee> thanks RaveniquE.  i'll read that and see what i can do..
Feb 19 00:31:31 <RaveniquE> sleepee : check http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher , it is the healtiest way to flash
Feb 19 00:31:37 <RaveniquE> nevermind :)
Feb 19 00:31:38 <psycho_oreos> and I used dpkg -l for that :)
Feb 19 00:31:41 <RaveniquE> good luck :)
Feb 19 00:31:59 <RaveniquE> fine, I have same version
Feb 19 00:32:20 <RaveniquE> should I delete it and somehow install it again?
Feb 19 00:32:34 <psycho_oreos> sleepee, I think using fapman will do something equivalent of osso HAM's OTA
Feb 19 00:33:07 <psycho_oreos> RaveniquE, hmm hard to say, what I would try doing instead of restarting all over again is to try rebooting the device
Feb 19 00:33:28 <sleepee> you lost me. lol.  what is osso HAM's OTA?
Feb 19 00:33:58 <psycho_oreos> sleepee, osso is the packages that nokia usually describes their built-in software, HAM is hildon application manager, OTA is over the air :p
Feb 19 00:34:35 <psycho_oreos> I can't quite remember what was the acronym for osso
Feb 19 00:34:36 <RaveniquE> I couldn't count how many times that I rebooted my device =)
Feb 19 00:34:51 <sleepee> ohhh lol!!  i got it now... that was a lot of acronyms.
Feb 19 00:35:05 <psycho_oreos> RaveniquE, after you did the reinstallation of decoders-support?
Feb 19 00:35:10 <RaveniquE> yeah.
Feb 19 00:36:22 <sleepee> so i can use fapman to do an ota update?
Feb 19 00:36:24 <psycho_oreos> RaveniquE, something is broken/screwed up somewhere :) the easiest way would be to resetup, the alternative (and potentially harder) way is to try and trace down the actual problem. I have lots of potential pointers but no actual direct way of finding out the exact errors
Feb 19 00:37:03 <RaveniquE> things start to change, the one lasts 2.30 was able to play, the one lasts 1.15 cannot, my movie didn't give any warning but didn't play either, gone back to menu
Feb 19 00:37:08 <RaveniquE> will dig, wait
Feb 19 00:37:50 <psycho_oreos> sleepee, not quite but something similar in a way. Let me give you what happened in my case. I flashed my device to pr1.3 without using OTA and when it came to installing a fair few packages via fapman, the total installation required downloading something like 200+ files which was far more than the packages I have selected to install
Feb 19 00:38:23 <RaveniquE> I saw green screen on 2.30 one, but paused it quickly to see if others are OK too, now rechecking the 2.30 one and can't play. -.-
Feb 19 00:38:57 <RaveniquE> DAMN!
Feb 19 00:39:04 <psycho_oreos> RaveniquE, that reminds me, I have a screencap recording I did on my n900 which was meant to be 0.50 but it only played a for a few seconds (skipping like about 100,000 frames) before reaching to the end
Feb 19 00:39:08 <RaveniquE> it gave codec not supported error, again.
Feb 19 00:40:01 <psycho_oreos> actually that 100,000 frames was a bit of exaggeration, but it was maybe around the 5,000 frames or so mark
Feb 19 00:40:22 <sleepee> well that's not a very good package manager then...
Feb 19 00:41:02 <RaveniquE> fapman rocks, IMO.
Feb 19 00:41:15 <RaveniquE> rebooted, will recheck
Feb 19 00:41:28 <psycho_oreos> sleepee, its alot faster than HAM to say the least :)
Feb 19 00:42:03 <sleepee> well that's true.. ham is pretty frickin slow..
Feb 19 00:43:03 <psycho_oreos> HAM is even more slower when you enable red pill mode and checked a few boxes such as showing all packages and magic system packages
Feb 19 00:43:11 <RaveniquE> nah. I saw green screen at the beginning of the video (2.30) then screen gone black
Feb 19 00:43:50 <RaveniquE> waited a few seconds, no sound, no screen, and I'm at  menu again.
Feb 19 00:43:51 <sleepee> yea, and having more than 2 or 3 repos makes it crawl...
Feb 19 00:45:02 <psycho_oreos> fapman doesn't do that at all, with the equivalent amount of repos I have in both HAM and fapman, fapman is at least 3x faster
Feb 19 00:45:25 <RaveniquE> -.-
Feb 19 00:45:45 <RaveniquE> I don't want to reflash just because of vid's !
Feb 19 00:46:33 <sleepee> i think im going to see if i can install this fapman first
Feb 19 00:46:34 <RaveniquE> it was the first time that I wanted to watch something though
Feb 19 00:49:44 <psycho_oreos> well the alternative way is to try and trace down the source of the issue, it could be a failed package, something that may have been shown in syslog (which needs to be installed separately) or running media-player via console and seeing if there's any useful outputted messages for example
Feb 19 00:50:10 <RaveniquE> well, I'm all ears.
Feb 19 00:50:50 <RaveniquE> how to check packages?
Feb 19 00:54:14 <sleepee> dammit.. i can't install faster application manager..  i think i need to update maemo first.. grr
Feb 19 00:56:14 <RaveniquE> I must quit now, thanks psycho for your try =)
Feb 19 00:56:27 <RaveniquE> gnight everybody
Feb 19 00:56:43 <sleepee> bye and goodluc
Feb 19 00:56:48 <sleepee> good luck*
Feb 19 00:56:53 <RaveniquE> u too :)
Feb 19 00:58:40 <psycho_oreos> back in a bad timing, ahh well
Feb 19 01:09:16 <thomasjfox> does anyone know how many pixels the top status bar takes up?
Feb 19 01:43:00 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie: I'm marginally faster on Dvorak, with significantly less wrist and hand strain.
Feb 19 01:48:29 <luke-jr> GeneralAntilles: now you just need to adopt Tonal too :D
Feb 19 01:49:41 <chx> I use a vertical keyboard :)
Feb 19 01:51:35 <luke-jr> I use a Dvorak-Tonal keyboard
Feb 19 01:51:50 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/education/tonal/keyboard/dvorak-tonal.png
Feb 19 02:04:25 <chx> luke-jr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bevanr/3899004832/ my Kinesis
Feb 19 02:05:38 <luke-jr> ugly
Feb 19 02:06:30 <chx> yes but useful
Feb 19 02:06:42 <chx> if you mean me, well, too bad :)
Feb 19 02:06:56 <lcuk> chx, gorilla arm needed
Feb 19 02:07:13 <chx> why...??
Feb 19 02:07:17 <lcuk> I cannot imagine holding up arms like that to type all day
Feb 19 02:07:36 <chx> well this was at a conference
Feb 19 02:07:43 <chx> normally you have a chair with an armrest.
Feb 19 02:08:03 <chx> so you are actually resting your hand all day long
Feb 19 02:08:09 <chx> your arm at least
Feb 19 02:08:16 <psycho_oreos> for arms to be held that high? what about elbows? wouldn
Feb 19 02:08:22 <psycho_oreos> wouldn't they get sore? :p
Feb 19 02:10:48 <lcuk> chx, it also blocks easy access to touchscreens on the device infront of you
Feb 19 02:12:33 <chx> touchscreens. ahem.
Feb 19 02:54:43 <Sc0rpius> hehe I didn't see the pic in the topic till now
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 19 02:59:57 2011