**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 27 02:59:57 2011 Feb 27 03:00:05 I doubt there can be done anything in linux land about it Feb 27 03:00:26 anyway, first step: reflash to plain OOTB state Feb 27 03:00:31 then why would reboot fix the symptom? Feb 27 03:00:35 we don't know? Feb 27 03:00:47 reboot also resets cmt Feb 27 03:01:00 can I reset CMT without reboot? Feb 27 03:01:11 though actually yiu'd think going airplane mode as well should do this Feb 27 03:01:19 yes, ^^^ Feb 27 03:01:28 okay, I will try airplane mode now Feb 27 03:02:02 power button press ; swipe unlock ; power button press ; Offline mode Feb 27 03:02:14 airplane mode should power down all TX in N900, and goinf back to normal mode should restart Feb 27 03:04:11 waited, now switching to normal mode Feb 27 03:04:33 DocScrutinizer: you getting those speakers soon? i'd like you to confirm that they work Feb 27 03:04:44 since they look different than what i have here Feb 27 03:05:20 Jaffa: do you know if cmt FW is flashed every time you flash COMBINED, or does it need some trick like downgrading and then upgrading again, or maybe changing to international and back to US version, to force a cmt FW flash? Feb 27 03:05:31 "2.5"G indicator ; select "T-Mobile internet" from connection selector ; after about 30 seconds I get "Internet connection failed. Try again?" Feb 27 03:05:52 lucent: repeating procedure won't help Feb 27 03:06:09 correct. rebooting now, to try Feb 27 03:06:20 you should select auto for 2G/3G Feb 27 03:06:33 why auto, if there is no 3G service anywhere around here? Feb 27 03:06:43 not for hundreds of miles Feb 27 03:07:18 because possibly forcing it to one band is creating problems that won't appear on auto. Auto is the genuine mode for modem Feb 27 03:07:37 okay. That's new information to me :) Feb 27 03:08:09 FYI the reboot is complete, connected to "2.5"G indicator and internet is up on T-Mobile internet Feb 27 03:08:56 DocScrutinizer: do you mean "Dual" Network mode ? Feb 27 03:09:03 strange. Well - as said above - next step: OOTB plain image Feb 27 03:09:09 or "Network selection" automatic Feb 27 03:09:11 yes, dual Feb 27 03:09:33 nite guys Feb 27 03:10:02 netwok selection forcing it to your carrier might help as well Feb 27 03:10:09 seems like gcc maemo compiler provided in nokia Qt sdk can't handle void* pointer arithmetic Feb 27 03:10:24 is there a way to get this? Feb 27 03:10:26 Kevin_B: makes sense, SINCE THAT'S ILLEGAL Feb 27 03:11:19 there might be a 'rogue' alternative carrier that keeps the phone trying to register, or actually just it's roaming and the network has no data at all Feb 27 03:11:29 mingw-gcc provide it Feb 27 03:11:41 DocScrutinizer: but phone calls still work? Feb 27 03:12:26 if you're roaming on a alien network and this network doesn't allow data, that would show exactly this effect then Feb 27 03:12:55 understand, now :) Feb 27 03:13:24 that does happen when I travel every day, I roam and one of the networks doesn't allow data Feb 27 03:13:24 you could use netmon to check details of carrier, band, BTS ID etc, so maybe you find some patterns Feb 27 03:14:03 bbl Feb 27 03:21:22 DocScrutinizer: any immediate way to log all that information timestamped and such? Feb 27 03:25:16 umm, maybe via syslog and dbus-monitor. But I'm not really sure how netmon acquires that info Feb 27 03:35:15 luke-jr, still around ? How you been? Feb 27 03:36:18 zakkkm: busy Feb 27 03:36:28 luke-jr, remember me? Feb 27 03:36:52 just got me one of those N900s Feb 27 03:41:49 pretty cool eh zakkkm Feb 27 03:44:34 zakkkm: oh well Feb 27 03:44:47 yeah Feb 27 03:45:00 pupnik, still trying it out though, have no time :) Feb 27 03:46:12 not liking the battery that much though Feb 27 03:46:23 questioning whether i should pay $9.99 and get joikuspot Feb 27 03:47:40 to tether something to n900 zakkkm Feb 27 03:47:56 yeah Feb 27 03:48:15 there's a free app too Feb 27 03:48:17 i tether my n900 to my desktop.. got unlimited data ( Toronto, Canada ) .. but you know other devices, maybe friends and such Feb 27 03:48:33 i was thinking of some bash script i could just run, and package it myself Feb 27 03:48:43 then there's also usb-tethering with the pc-suite Feb 27 03:48:44 make it have like a on and off Feb 27 03:48:49 yeah im doing usb tethering now Feb 27 03:48:55 zakkkm: Mobile Hotspot is in extras Feb 27 03:49:22 didnt see that? Feb 27 03:49:27 thought i went through them all Feb 27 03:49:39 luke-jr: what's the best battery grapher Feb 27 03:49:42 got the extras-devel too, unsure if i should get extras-testing Feb 27 03:49:53 so i can get an idea of my usage habits Feb 27 03:49:55 does it do WPA2? Feb 27 03:50:28 i see only WEP Feb 27 03:50:57 pupnik: Eye Feb 27 03:51:05 ty Feb 27 03:52:02 you guys use normal microb browser? Feb 27 03:52:18 when I browse Feb 27 03:52:55 opera here Feb 27 03:53:54 http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1579/maemodeb.jpg know what icon set that is? Feb 27 03:54:42 so is meego/nitdroid worth trying, or should stick to maemo ? Feb 27 03:54:44 wow that looks neat Feb 27 03:55:08 i think if it's fun to try them then do, but neither are more useful Feb 27 03:56:12 zakkkm: none of the above Feb 27 04:07:40 pupnik: I heard bat eye is eating bat :-P Feb 27 04:08:31 pupnik: I suggest bq27200.sh script and redirect taht to a file if you want devent logs Feb 27 04:08:58 is it sad to say i think maemo 3 looks better than 5? Feb 27 04:09:33 zakkkm: well, for quite a number of aspects I think m4 is better than m4 Feb 27 04:09:55 m4 is better than m4? Feb 27 04:10:26 e.g complete functionality via hw keys - while on m5 you can't even open a menu without touchscreen Feb 27 04:10:35 when the n900 was first shown, looked so cool and loved it mostly cause of the speed, which seemed muchh faster than n800, and also 3d Feb 27 04:10:38 meh m4 > m5 Feb 27 04:11:12 but now having the n900, i miss maemo 3 with plankton :P Feb 27 04:11:21 m5 did away with oldschool 'start menu' style application launcher Feb 27 04:11:35 if they didnt all WSOD ( like my old 770) i would attempt to acquire one Feb 27 04:11:49 I found some ways to leverage this flaw in m5 via modified hildon desktop, to some extent Feb 27 04:12:05 you guys overclock? or mess with system services? i find maemo 5 alot slower than i thought it would be Feb 27 04:12:15 havent done CSSU yet, does that help? Feb 27 04:12:16 nah, OC is for fools Feb 27 04:12:18 what exactly seems slow zakkkm Feb 27 04:12:34 window animations Feb 27 04:12:43 switching apps mostly Feb 27 04:12:52 hmm, then tune the transitions :-P Feb 27 04:12:56 i enabled the "use custom window animations(fast) from theme thing , which helped Feb 27 04:15:06 "there's an app for that" ;-P caled transition tweaker os sth like that Feb 27 04:15:25 "there's an app for that" ;-P called transition tweaker or sth like that Feb 27 04:16:09 DocScrutinizer: you seem to be right - idle current was 25mA without battery eye, 55mA with it Feb 27 04:16:21 yeah Feb 27 04:16:27 how you testing mA amount? Feb 27 04:16:37 bq27200.sh Feb 27 04:16:42 25mA idle?! Feb 27 04:16:47 thats high Feb 27 04:16:48 ./bq27220.sh Feb 27 04:17:01 not for a script running every 5 seconds Feb 27 04:17:02 compared to what zakkkm Feb 27 04:17:14 average phones Feb 27 04:17:22 or smartphones rather Feb 27 04:17:30 oh, do avrg phones shell scripting? Feb 27 04:17:52 and WLAN ssh? Feb 27 04:18:00 ssh is in alot of phones? Feb 27 04:18:01 this is going over wlan ssh Feb 27 04:18:28 pupnik: I knew, as I get exactly same figures Feb 27 04:18:41 gotta pick up on my shell scripting , get my LPI level 2 certification Feb 27 04:18:50 thanks for confirm... let me know when you test those speakers pls DocScrutinizer Feb 27 04:18:57 pupnik: increase cycle time to 60s to see current drop massively Feb 27 04:19:39 I never ordered those speakers, I wish I had, though they won't get tested as they are suppoesed to be original spare Feb 27 04:20:33 oh i was holding-off on my order Feb 27 04:20:40 will order tonight Feb 27 04:21:09 I'm still waiting for my bare PCB to arrive Feb 27 04:21:16 :-S Feb 27 04:21:47 looks like they wait to put a large set of orders on a boat to europe or smth Feb 27 04:24:00 much-better mame for maemo Feb 27 04:24:09 Notes: order sent out on 14th Feb 2011 by normal airmail,it always takes 3-7 weeks to delivered Feb 27 04:25:07 :/ Feb 27 04:25:22 airmail = hot-air balloon? Feb 27 04:25:30 prolly Feb 27 04:25:56 wait til it drifts by somewhere near my, driven by the winds Feb 27 04:26:21 :) hmm now i'm getting more readings like 16-22mA Feb 27 04:26:44 I seem to recall JApan shiped bombs to the western countries this way, in WW2 Feb 27 04:27:31 PSM on? Feb 27 04:28:07 PSM is what? Feb 27 04:28:15 WLAN PSM Feb 27 04:28:44 power saving Feb 27 04:28:51 i assume so? Feb 27 04:29:18 I'd rather check :-) Feb 27 04:30:16 yes, on (maximum) Feb 27 04:32:31 check your script Feb 27 04:33:25 http://paste.debian.net/108964/ RS=22 ! Feb 27 04:33:35 has been 30 at times Feb 27 04:34:05 the peaks at 39, 44mA are due to GSM Feb 27 04:34:40 05:32 4175 100 100 -13 1380 1380 1380 65535 6150 26 0 Feb 27 04:34:42 05:33 4175 100 100 -10 1380 1380 1380 65535 7734 26 0 Feb 27 04:34:43 05:33 4175 100 100 -12 1380 1380 1380 65535 6459 26 0 Feb 27 04:34:45 05:34 4172 100 100 -15 1379 1379 1379 65535 5428 25 0 Feb 27 04:35:26 heh i am losing ssh to device on inactivity Feb 27 04:35:33 script is from early last year Feb 27 04:36:15 duh, I found about bq27200 last summer iirc Feb 27 04:36:51 so script hardly can be older than that Feb 27 04:37:25 aaah, no wait Feb 27 04:37:49 Apr 4 2010 bq27220.sh Feb 27 04:37:58 actually it's not been me who found the bq27200, I think I found bq24150 Feb 27 04:38:51 05:36 3779 0 0 -31 0 0 0 65535 0 297 0 Feb 27 04:38:51 05:36 3789 0 0 -17 0 0 0 65535 0 297 0 Feb 27 04:38:52 05:37 3789 0 0 -17 0 0 0 65535 0 297 0 Feb 27 04:39:18 seems there's sth eating a 5 some mA Feb 27 04:39:44 might be WLAN Feb 27 04:39:53 battery eye is running Feb 27 04:40:06 you could run the script on local xterm, and disconnect Feb 27 04:40:09 LOL Feb 27 04:41:02 well, for a prog accused to be a bat hog that'S not that bad Feb 27 04:41:30 GSM? Feb 27 04:41:54 off Feb 27 04:42:03 that'S another 4mA Feb 27 04:42:27 so you're like 10mA high Feb 27 04:42:50 ok ill stop battery eye and run bq from terminal Feb 27 04:43:01 and disconnect WLAN Feb 27 04:43:36 should get you down to <10 Feb 27 04:43:49 actually way less than 10 Feb 27 04:44:04 only when screen blanked ;-D Feb 27 04:44:33 ok thanks. will let this run Feb 27 04:44:36 notifier LED breathing light is humble Feb 27 04:44:51 I'd guess a 0.5 avrg Feb 27 04:45:00 that's not running Feb 27 04:45:06 o.O Feb 27 04:45:09 wow Feb 27 04:45:21 you disabled breathing light? Feb 27 04:45:37 i think yes... it's certainly not doing anything Feb 27 04:45:52 is CSSU any faster, or just bug fixes? Feb 27 04:45:59 bugfixes Feb 27 04:46:36 most of us are just happy with performance of OMAP3430 at 600MHz max ;-D Feb 27 04:46:45 ohh maybe you know, Mail exchange keeps saying like cannot connect Feb 27 04:46:52 first synchronization is fine.. then just randomly stops working Feb 27 04:47:03 hmm Feb 27 04:47:30 would use normal "email" i just want contact/calendar sync though too Feb 27 04:47:35 I think I've seen that on PR1.0 Feb 27 04:48:03 never used any sync though Feb 27 04:48:04 synchronisation failed. error in communication with exchange server Feb 27 04:48:13 :shrug: Feb 27 04:48:32 version 20.2010.36-2 i assume its PR1.3? Feb 27 04:48:39 yep Feb 27 04:51:43 pupnik: for reference: http://paste.debian.net/108965/ idle, GSM, blank screen, via WLAN PSM max WPA ssh Feb 27 04:54:46 DocScrutinizer: with wlan off, screen off, no gsm i get -14 - -15 mA over the last minutes Feb 27 04:55:00 meh, that's too much Feb 27 04:55:23 for a 30s period of bq27200.sh Feb 27 04:55:40 yes oh. i see battery eye continues running after closed gui Feb 27 04:55:47 lol Feb 27 04:57:04 something is starting python -OO /opt/maemo/usr/lib/advanced-power-monitor/apmdaemon.py start Feb 27 04:59:04 ahh "advanced power monitor" package Feb 27 05:00:19 pupnik: sounds like it uses more power monitoring it Feb 27 05:00:45 yeah i unstalled everything battery-monitorish and rebooting now - will see if i can get it lower Feb 27 05:01:41 heh Feb 27 05:01:53 doesn't battery eye also use the monitoring daemon? Feb 27 05:02:25 i wonder how many times it monitors... probably isn't too bad if it does it once every 20 mins or so Feb 27 05:03:22 Macer: maybe all it does is log that data when not onscreen Feb 27 05:08:52 well, I seem to recall rumour about it refreshing graphics even when in background and screen locked :-P Feb 27 05:11:03 I really love this video that guy published there. Don't even understand Italian and still it's absolutely clear what'S going on :-D Feb 27 05:11:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ&NR=1 Feb 27 05:11:52 rebooted, offline mode, 14-15 mA Feb 27 05:12:32 powertop, see what processes got lots of wakeups Feb 27 05:16:53 "Tax protester William Monroe once wrote: 'I have to buy less food, less tobacco, less recreation; I would LIKE to buy LESS GOVERNMENT.'" hahah Feb 27 05:40:11 Hello Feb 27 05:40:36 i went through this http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME and i wanted to know a possible way to actually find out if my battery was original Feb 27 05:40:47 any proper command to see the max capacity ? Feb 27 05:45:46 xDaReaperx: completely charge, discharge, charge, discharge, then run bq27200.sh Feb 27 05:46:04 *completely* Feb 27 05:46:10 ok it was my kernel DocScrutinizer - the nokia kernel has been averaging -2 -3 mA Feb 27 05:46:19 without removing battery in between Feb 27 05:46:41 pupnik: o.O Feb 27 05:46:52 just sitting there, doing nothing Feb 27 05:46:53 pupnik: what's wrong with your kernel then? Feb 27 05:47:05 dunno some old experimental kernel Feb 27 05:47:12 odd Feb 27 05:47:39 anyway nice to learn your hw is ok Feb 27 05:47:46 yes yes1 thanks for the help Feb 27 05:47:54 yw Feb 27 05:48:29 time for chilling Feb 27 05:48:38 o/ Feb 27 05:49:23 okay Feb 27 05:49:25 thank you Feb 27 05:49:40 and if chocolaate maan visits, say "hi bot". Don't expect an answer though ;-P Feb 27 05:51:44 xDaReaperx: actually you ma want to run bq27200.sh 60 >mybatlog.txt all the time, while charging discharging completely, to see where cell gets low/full Feb 27 05:52:07 actually batterygraph shows 1207 full charge Feb 27 05:52:11 bq27200 chip isn't guaranteed to learn bat capacity in just 2 learning cycles Feb 27 05:52:21 1250 is the max right ? Feb 27 05:52:32 meh, battery graph I'm not trusting Feb 27 05:52:39 hmm okay Feb 27 05:52:42 13080 here Feb 27 05:52:46 woah Feb 27 05:52:48 lol Feb 27 05:52:49 1380 actually Feb 27 05:52:56 it's the original ? Feb 27 05:53:01 yep Feb 27 05:53:09 cause as far as i've read i've seen max was 1250 or something around 1300 Feb 27 05:53:34 that's design capacity. good cells may go igher Feb 27 05:53:37 higher Feb 27 05:53:39 and when ever i do a full charge after unplugging it shows only 95 or 96 % charged Feb 27 05:54:00 never mind, that's bme lies Feb 27 05:54:05 all just lies :-P Feb 27 05:54:06 oh okay Feb 27 05:54:09 lol Feb 27 05:56:13 is this Japod battery good ? Feb 27 05:56:21 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/japod-bl-5j-replacement-3-7v-1350mah-li-ion-battery-for-nokia-5800-32398 Feb 27 05:56:29 xDaReaperx: http://paste.debian.net/108965/ Feb 27 05:57:10 nice which command did you use ? Feb 27 05:57:24 this one it self right ? bq27200.sh 60 >mybatlog.txt Feb 27 05:57:51 30 but yes Feb 27 05:58:24 you might want to use 300 Feb 27 05:58:42 aka 5 min Feb 27 05:58:48 ok Feb 27 06:01:31 xDaReaperx: make sure you got RS=22 in that script Feb 27 06:01:40 not RS=30 Feb 27 06:03:56 and don't erase your script when restarting, watch out to use >> instead of > Feb 27 06:04:26 s/script/log/ Feb 27 06:04:27 DocScrutinizer meant: and don't erase your log when restarting, watch out to use >> instead of > Feb 27 06:05:11 Speaking of which, this is (at east essentially) the same thing as the original charger, isn't it? http://www.dealextreme.com/p/genuine-nokia-mini-ac-10u-us-type-ac-charger-100-240v-32331 Feb 27 06:05:28 when bat-low alarm yells, you might need to `stop bme` Feb 27 06:06:04 RobbieThe1st: according to the URL yes Feb 27 06:08:09 afk, bbl Feb 27 06:09:15 why is RS=22 better than RS=30? Feb 27 06:36:52 because of that's the correct value for the sensing resistor Feb 27 06:37:41 maybe 20, but obviously not 30 Feb 27 07:21:23 * jonwil wishes he could find someone who knows lots about how to program telepathy and related APIs Feb 27 07:39:12 NASA Says Nuclear Warfare Could Reverse Global Warming! Feb 27 07:58:54 cool, but please not in my garden Feb 27 08:01:33 DocScrutinizer says a Colt .45 can avoid dying from cancer Feb 27 08:11:49 * jonwil wonders if people here actually care about making maemo better or if they have all given up and moved to other platforms Feb 27 08:12:06 * RST38h cackles at that Feb 27 08:13:23 My guess is that people do care about making maemo better but they just dont care about trying to replace, clone, reverse engineer or figure out the closed source bits because its too much work :P Feb 27 08:15:14 Morning all Feb 27 08:15:32 Morning jaffa Feb 27 08:16:27 * DocScrutinizer wonders how to fill global warming into cans, so today could get any better by opening a few Feb 27 08:16:39 who is qgil? Feb 27 08:16:45 quim gil Feb 27 08:16:51 and he is? Feb 27 08:16:56 Someone at Nokia I assume Feb 27 08:17:00 yep Feb 27 08:17:08 but what position? Feb 27 08:17:10 Nokia FOSS evangelist Feb 27 08:17:12 jonwil: I'd reimplement stuff like the calendar, just that I don't have time Feb 27 08:17:22 jonwil: so it's not that I don't care... Feb 27 08:18:58 Find me a telepathy/missioncontrol guy and I could have a large chunk of the non-ui information required to write an alternative dialer app figured out within a week :P Feb 27 08:19:29 http://maemo.org/profile/view/qgil/ Feb 27 08:20:48 http://www.linkedin.com/in/quimgil Feb 27 08:22:04 The #1 and #2 problems with a dialer clone or replacement is 1.figuring out all the things the current dialer does and 2.finding a set of tests that is guaranteed to test every feature Feb 27 08:22:50 I suspect the dialer does a lot of things that most people would never think of Feb 27 08:24:04 You do noy necessarily have toduplicate every internal thing it does Feb 27 08:24:48 Doc: So,it is no longer Meego and back to Maemo? Feb 27 08:25:56 Ah wait he simply has not updated his linkedin profile in years Feb 27 08:27:15 You dont have to duplicate everything but you have to figure out all the features it exposes to the user Feb 27 08:27:36 For example the dialer does special things with certain special phone numbers (USSD or whatever it is) Feb 27 08:28:25 jonwil: this has nothing to doto the dialerit is part of the gsmstandard Feb 27 08:28:41 And I do suspect that most things dialer does end up in DBus calls Feb 27 08:29:05 i was crying today after read late news, and pictures of crying meegoids... :'( Feb 27 08:30:36 Most of what the dialer does results in dbus calls or telepathy calls Feb 27 08:30:44 RST38h: well, some things are a bit special about *# codes. For sure the reaction to the reply is not like with a normal call Feb 27 08:30:49 the non-ui stuff Feb 27 08:31:02 there are also a bunch of addressbook calls Feb 27 08:31:18 and some libhal calls Feb 27 08:31:25 ok, i'll go, i cant anymore :'(... here it is www.linuxjournal.com/content/oh-nokia-we-loved-you-so Feb 27 08:31:29 now it's getting funny Feb 27 08:32:28 http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-165 Feb 27 08:33:14 Heck, we even tolerated the resistive screen on the N900 ... KTHNXBYE Feb 27 08:33:22 but yeah most of the important stuff the dialer does likely goes through dbus and through telepathy/missioncontrol Feb 27 08:33:44 the HAL stuff seems to be audio related Feb 27 08:34:35 :nod: mhm Feb 27 08:35:08 there's more to dialer than just sending ATD+180055512345 Feb 27 08:35:39 yep, thats why its so hard to clone Feb 27 08:35:48 at least clone in a feature-complete way Feb 27 08:47:22 its not rocket science, all it would need is someone with telepathy skills, an interest in improving maemo and enough time to work on it :P Feb 27 08:52:44 jonwil <-- apparently has not estimated the complexity of the whole task Feb 27 08:53:52 :P Feb 27 08:54:33 it is not only the dialer, you know... Feb 27 08:54:35 I took a look at the call-ui source code, might take a while to clone it :P Feb 27 08:55:32 Cloning it might take some time but figuring out all the external interfaces wouldn't take anywhere near as much time Feb 27 08:55:41 i.e. everything non-ui related that its doing Feb 27 09:00:36 if you know the important things its doing, you can clone things bit by bit :) Feb 27 09:11:15 Hi! Does anybody know the tmo and wmo page discussing how to mount the external microsd card automatically sl startup, if it is fully formatted as ext2? Feb 27 09:11:52 complicated Feb 27 09:12:02 most of scripts have hardcoded vfat Feb 27 09:14:20 I cheat Feb 27 09:14:32 I use a queen beacon script to do startuppy things Feb 27 09:14:45 That's set to run once. Feb 27 09:16:46 I cheat... I modify all the stuff to actually support ext ;) Feb 27 09:19:04 Hmm. Feb 27 09:19:14 I'll try the one described here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_on_microSD_card Feb 27 09:21:20 why do you want ext2 Feb 27 09:22:25 http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2011386&cid=35308108 Feb 27 09:22:26 because not everyone runs vfat on their sd cards... Feb 27 09:22:28 * timeless_w7ip sighs Feb 27 09:24:01 jacekowski: Because of file size limits Feb 27 09:24:18 It's OK. I have EXT2FSD installed on Windows system that I use. Feb 27 09:26:04 http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2011386&cid=35308696 Feb 27 09:26:06 * timeless_w7ip rotfl Feb 27 09:27:15 avs: did you see http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Nokia-and-open-source-a-trial-by-fire-1194928.html ? Feb 27 09:32:56 Slashdotter attempts at humor only cause pity Feb 27 09:46:50 good morning Feb 27 09:54:07 timeless_w7ip, yes Feb 27 10:00:15 * timeless_w7ip sighs Feb 27 10:00:28 is there a magic table somewhere that maps ubuntu releases to debian releases? Feb 27 10:03:23 I don't think such a thing would be feasible Feb 27 10:05:56 timeless_w7ip: what would you like precisely? Feb 27 10:06:07 packages versions in various releases? Feb 27 10:08:32 a way to use a certain ppa from debian w/ the lowest chance of failure Feb 27 10:08:43 and don't tell me "debian and ubuntu aren't compatible" Feb 27 10:08:49 i don't give a F**** Feb 27 10:09:02 i can also not use apt for this, and i'd be happy Feb 27 10:09:05 well, they are at matching releases, which is your point :) Feb 27 10:09:22 i believe that squeeze and lucid are the pair i care about Feb 27 10:10:17 http://www.chengin.com/?p=66 is awesome btw, the webapp converted -- into a single character Feb 27 10:10:23 to ensure that all of the commands will fail Feb 27 10:17:57 timeless_w7ip: on the debian PTS you have the various debian version and (I guess) the version in current ubuntu release Feb 27 10:18:00 http://packages.qa.debian.org/libh/libhildon.html for example Feb 27 10:18:03 timeless_w7ip: I'd guess that squeeze would be on par with last year october's ubuntu. just a guess though Feb 27 10:18:38 timeless_w7ip: you can have the same kind of view for all packages from a maintainer, but not for *all* packages Feb 27 10:18:51 I remember that something like that exists but I can't find it right now Feb 27 10:18:58 William Clay. Democrat • 1st District, Missouri • 6th Term • Sworn In 2001 "There's no way the Federal Reserve could possibly have an effect on the value of the dollar" Feb 27 10:19:12 oops Feb 27 10:22:25 timeless_w7ip: just install the latest one Feb 27 10:22:33 if it complains about libraries, install the one before that Feb 27 10:22:50 it shouldn't make that big of a difference for normal programs Feb 27 10:27:16 also w7 ¬_¬ Feb 27 10:43:00 kerio: err Feb 27 10:43:11 the point is that the one available from the default debian release is too old Feb 27 10:43:39 there's a ppa which offers the version i want, but i'm supposed to pick an ubuntu distro so it can try to be nice to me about dependencies Feb 27 10:43:52 timeless_w7ip: yeah Feb 27 10:43:54 * timeless_w7ip ponders trying to send a patch for the linux kernel Feb 27 10:44:05 so install the latest one, and if it complains about dependencies, install the previous one Feb 27 10:44:05 well, not really the kernel, technically linux/README :) Feb 27 10:44:36 is there an apt-get install --not-really-just-tell-me-if-you-would-like-me package flag? :) Feb 27 10:45:18 dpkg iirc can force stuff avoiding deps and errors Feb 27 10:45:30 ruskie: totally not the goal here Feb 27 10:45:52 the goal is to provide a way for an admin to install a version of a package i'd like if the admin insists on using apt to manage the package Feb 27 10:46:17 with the understanding that w/o providing a non debian repo, the admin would be unable to install a version of the package that i'd like Feb 27 10:48:27 My (new) n900 drains about 20% battery in 8h without usage (3G, wifi and GPS disabled, all X applications closed, screen locked). Is that normal? Feb 27 10:48:46 check what the cpu is doing... Feb 27 10:48:57 dschoepe: so you're getting 5 days standby? Feb 27 10:49:17 8 hours = 1 day? Feb 27 10:49:33 1 business day :) Feb 27 10:49:44 ok, <2days Feb 27 10:49:49 dschoepe: that's low Feb 27 10:49:51 dschoepe: there can be many causes of that Feb 27 10:50:12 ruskie: BatteryGraph shows some spikes about each hour Feb 27 10:50:17 dschoepe: you might have media which is being 'indexed' (or causing the indexer to throw fits) Feb 27 10:50:36 do you have presence disabled? Feb 27 10:50:38 dschoepe, cpu use.. not battery monitor... Feb 27 10:50:55 ruskie: oh, I meant cpu usage, batterygraph displays that Feb 27 10:51:05 i bet you installed a bunch of stuff that uses cpu Feb 27 10:51:32 timeless_w7ip: I didn't enable it myself, is it on by default? Feb 27 10:51:54 dschoepe: shrug, you haven't added any accounts? Feb 27 10:52:14 no Feb 27 10:52:22 did you buy it new or used? Feb 27 10:52:26 new Feb 27 10:52:35 I'd check top to see if there is some process using a lot of cpu time... Feb 27 10:52:51 and you haven't installed anything? Feb 27 10:52:58 I have installed various daemons like shortcutd and headphoned, but they shouldn't use any noticeable amount of CPU, right? Feb 27 10:53:03 have you added widgets to your desktop? Feb 27 10:53:26 yeah, but just a calendar, feedingit(with auto-update disabled) and that location-thingie Feb 27 10:53:38 try ditching calendar Feb 27 10:53:47 (and ditch location) Feb 27 10:53:59 heck, while you're investigating, ditch them all! Feb 27 10:54:22 * timeless_w7ip ponders Feb 27 10:54:45 "i'm using this calendar thing which shows me future events. it seems every hour some power is burned. that couldn't possibly relate, could it?" Feb 27 10:55:26 that would explain the spike in CPU usage, that batterygraph showed every hour Feb 27 10:55:41 if you were wrinting "my first calendar daily view", how would you write it? :) Feb 27 10:56:30 ruskie: htop doesn't show anything suspicious, except hildon-desktop and X using about 10% but not continuously Feb 27 10:56:31 out of curiosity, is there anything in your calendar? :) Feb 27 10:56:48 fwiw, desktop widgets are part of hildon-desktop Feb 27 10:57:08 yes, but only about 5 appointments, one of which is shown Feb 27 10:58:03 sure, so "my first calendar" might want to decide if it should hide or change the display of that one appointment :) Feb 27 10:58:31 anyway, try w/o those widgets and see how things go Feb 27 10:58:45 yeah, will do Feb 27 10:58:49 heck, it sounds like you can monitor overnight to find out if that does it Feb 27 10:59:51 speaking of which, could the logging that batterygraph does, cause it? Feb 27 11:00:01 potentially Feb 27 11:00:10 anything that results in wakeups and i/o isn't free Feb 27 11:00:48 * timeless_w7ip doesn't use such tools and doesn't know what their expected cost is Feb 27 11:01:01 okay, removed that too, lets see if that helps Feb 27 11:01:40 thanks for your help Feb 27 11:01:53 do pop back to indicate what happened Feb 27 11:03:11 scoobertron: are you using the nokia kernel? i just found that the 'power kernel' sucked power Feb 27 11:03:16 (not oc'd) Feb 27 11:03:26 pupnik: *shocking* :) Feb 27 11:03:51 :D Feb 27 11:12:44 can i insert microsd while power is on? Feb 27 11:12:58 pupnik: yes Feb 27 11:13:28 (at least I could without any problems) Feb 27 11:13:29 No. Feb 27 11:13:44 Because the power to the microSD is turned off when the back cover is opened. Feb 27 11:14:13 MohammadAG: ping Feb 27 11:15:23 worked fine here SpeedEvil Feb 27 11:15:45 MohammadAG: concerning the cssu, is the phone application also closed source? otherwise adding filtering on incoming/outgoing etc calls like in extended call log makes sense Feb 27 11:16:19 the phone dialer app (rtcom-call-ui) is closed source unfortunatly Feb 27 11:16:32 Call filtering features is something I would really love to be able to do Feb 27 11:16:43 but its not possible unfortunatly due to the fact that the dialer app is closed source Feb 27 11:16:46 jonwil: thanx for the info Feb 27 11:17:26 I am working on reverse enginering the phone dialer (more specifically all those non-ui bits that would be required to produce a replacement) but I lack the telepathy knowledge to advance it further :( Feb 27 11:18:09 i have a kind of bug: i use OptimizeN900 on a daily basis with alarmed but in same cases i am not able to use the ui anymore as a background screen "select font" comes to the foreground and i cant get rid of it, just rebooting helps Feb 27 11:18:50 jonwil: did you have a look on the dialer apps from the openmoko project, shr etc... Feb 27 11:19:15 The issue is not "write a phone dialer" Feb 27 11:19:23 the issue is "figure out all the special stuff the stock dialer does" Feb 27 11:19:39 it does all sorts of things like USSD calls Feb 27 11:19:53 and stuff connected to emergency numbers Feb 27 11:19:59 thank you Thomas Tanner for 'locate' utility! Feb 27 11:20:07 jonwil: okay ... i guess the shr guys have the same problem with their port Feb 27 11:20:24 hey Feb 27 11:20:24 * ZogG hugs pupnik Feb 27 11:20:30 wut Feb 27 11:20:56 the only way to get that information (assuming Nokia wont release the dialer source code) is to reverse engineer the dialer (something which no-one except me seems to be particularly interested in :P Feb 27 11:20:57 jonwil: what about the meego dialer, does it also use telepathy? Feb 27 11:21:11 its not just telepathy Feb 27 11:21:16 its all the other things the dialer talks to Feb 27 11:21:22 okay Feb 27 11:21:27 * pupnik needs locate like oxygen Feb 27 11:21:52 i bet we could have the media framework use the locate system instead Feb 27 11:22:11 jonwil: I'm interested too. Feb 27 11:22:21 btw the need for this info only matters if you are using the maemo telephony stack Feb 27 11:22:32 jonwil: But am currently spending time taking apart my bathroom. Feb 27 11:23:01 Finding people that actually know anything much about telepathy seems difficult Feb 27 11:23:09 jonwil: i had also big issues as i tried out a dual sim card as there is no special menu for it Feb 27 11:23:33 hey ZogG i don't see locate command Feb 27 11:23:46 and no updatedb either Feb 27 11:24:54 jonwil: switching between the two sims didnt worked on the n900, no problem on old nokias Feb 27 11:25:21 That feature may require changes in the cellular modem firmware Feb 27 11:25:26 Depends how it works Feb 27 11:25:30 pupnik me either Feb 27 11:26:21 jonwil: the only cool thing was that the adapter was a non cut version which fits perfectly in the n900 Feb 27 11:29:18 pupnik, the funny thing, i do have it on desktop but don't rememeber what package does have it so don't have it on laptop =) Feb 27 11:29:47 http://agilialinux.com/main/about.html -- nice new linux =) Feb 27 11:31:05 ZogG: - mlocate or slocate are the common packages Feb 27 11:31:33 I recon if we knew the special stuff the dialer does (telepathy, dbus, HAL etc) writing a new dialer wouldn't be that difficult\ Feb 27 11:33:49 pupnik i mean "locate" Feb 27 11:36:46 hmm reinstalling javisp's new dosbox gives no usable config file or keyboard layout Feb 27 11:52:22 hmm. tåke idag. Ikke noe prøve-teleskop-vær, iallefall... Feb 27 11:52:34 say wut Feb 27 11:52:46 #wrong channel. Feb 27 11:53:51 Hah Feb 27 12:22:26 pupnik: speedevil was explaining a technical detail Feb 27 12:22:54 you aren't actually inserting the uSD card to a live bus. the power to that slot is off when the cover is removed. this prevents harm to things. Feb 27 12:23:06 oh i see Feb 27 12:24:40 pupnik: i'm not certain that tracker always honors file extensions. it's possible it ignores them... Feb 27 12:24:41 pupnik, it's not that hard for me to make xmms2 functionality with API as to make gui =) Feb 27 12:25:15 timeless_w7ip: the 'locate' thing is just a convenience for linux folks Feb 27 12:25:27 'where'd that file go' is much nicer with locate Feb 27 12:25:39 jonwil: typically dualsim is managed by using SIMTK or whatever that monstrocity is called Feb 27 12:25:42 true Feb 27 12:25:51 pupnik, but true linux guys use find actually Feb 27 12:26:08 STK? Feb 27 12:26:24 ZogG: i don't think so - it's slow Feb 27 12:26:35 you are slow =) Feb 27 12:26:43 not slow, just not paying attn Feb 27 12:26:46 but it's like comparing bike and car Feb 27 12:27:06 find is a disaster on any file system w/ lots of data Feb 27 12:27:09 it does not scale well Feb 27 12:27:29 there's a reason everyone since BeOS has been trying to move toward a database for their file system Feb 27 12:27:34 ms tried w/ Cairo Feb 27 12:27:42 timeless_w7ip: updatedb can run when i'm sleeping. that's a good system even for a portable Feb 27 12:28:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_%28operating_system%29 Feb 27 12:28:32 pupnik: users tend to be rather annoying Feb 27 12:29:15 there was a cool /. comment about people and military use wrt. iraq/afghanistan/libya Feb 27 12:30:36 http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2011386&cid=35308108 Feb 27 12:30:48 > The simple fact is that the real world is a hellishly difficult place and western governments are dealing with an electorate incapable of keeping a coherent train of thought in a single sentence. Feb 27 12:30:58 a translation for people only familiar w/ computers Feb 27 12:31:21 users demand "excellent battery life" and "immediate responsiveness" and "instant access" and Feb 27 12:31:25 "perfect search" and Feb 27 12:31:26 ... Feb 27 12:31:32 users want everything! Feb 27 12:31:53 and engineers decide what makes users happiest based on their uninformed feedback Feb 27 12:31:58 case in point. we were using a PSn (dunno if it was 2 or 3, i'm a user, i don't care) Feb 27 12:32:24 while we watched a movie, we arranged for the media server we were using to download an additional movie Feb 27 12:32:41 we wanted to be able to immediately select the new movie from the list as soon as we finished watching the current movie Feb 27 12:32:49 we were acting like typical users Feb 27 12:33:10 having to reboot or wait for the system to do a daily media update would *not* have made us happy Feb 27 12:33:29 can you imagine telling your sister "no, you can't watch the movie you just bought today, wait until tomorrow"? Feb 27 12:33:42 surely some of you have siblings? Feb 27 12:34:19 * kerio has two much older ones Feb 27 12:38:29 * RST38h cannot imagine that: he isnot buying any movies Feb 27 12:39:25 hmmm, the dialer app supports video calls (skype video calls I assume, possibly SIP also) Feb 27 12:39:37 rst: substitute steal for buy if you must Feb 27 12:39:45 jonwil: and google talk Feb 27 12:39:48 among others Feb 27 12:40:46 No, you are not getting it: I am not even stealing any movies Feb 27 12:41:13 you don't watch movies? i get it Feb 27 12:41:19 you aren't my target audience Feb 27 12:41:23 See? Now you get it. Feb 27 12:41:37 nor were you the official target of this feature Feb 27 12:41:42 Also, the concept of "stealing" originally included the notion of the victim losing the stolen good. Feb 27 12:41:52 since you're clearly a hacker, just disable the stupid feature and stop whining Feb 27 12:41:57 oh fuck off Feb 27 12:42:11 And losing "potential revenue" probably wouldn't count. Feb 27 12:42:41 language is used to describe concepts Feb 27 12:42:47 timeless <-- fallomorphs easily Feb 27 12:42:58 you clearly understood the concept based on your response Feb 27 12:43:06 which means the language was sufficient and effective Feb 27 12:45:36 is this the place to get some help with Hildon? Feb 27 12:47:26 zhasha: you can ask here, there's probably also a -dev somewhere Feb 27 12:47:59 but some people are moving to Qt, so the available set of devs is dwindling Feb 27 12:48:06 there's a #maemo-dev but that kinda says development of Maemo, not for Maemo Feb 27 12:49:11 in any case, I just want to know how to make what I believe is called a sub-view. as in, I want to have a list to select from, and when you do select something, it moves to the next screen as in the music player, and displays a back button in the upper right hand corner Feb 27 12:56:30 Well, he was patient :D Feb 27 12:57:09 heh Feb 27 12:57:50 I guess some people just don't like waiting Feb 27 12:58:19 alterego: tell that to rst! :) Feb 27 12:58:22 It is quiet strange that people think we're all here staring at the window waiting for someone to come in and ask a question ;) Feb 27 12:58:36 s/quiet/quite/ Feb 27 12:58:37 alterego meant: It is quite strange that people think we're all here staring at the window waiting for someone to come in and ask a question ;) Feb 27 12:58:51 * RST38h downloads a 300kB book in ~3 seconds, starts reading happily Feb 27 12:59:17 RST38h: that's almost 150kB/s! Feb 27 12:59:18 * alterego is working on his Qml based dialer Feb 27 12:59:24 * kerio is playing transformice Feb 27 13:00:06 Well, establishing connection probably eats most of those 3 sec Feb 27 13:00:23 alterego: You too??? jonwil here is working on one Feb 27 13:00:38 RST38h: mine is for MeeGo, I don't know what he's doing :D Feb 27 13:00:56 And no doubt he wont be using QML Feb 27 13:01:46 kerio: what kind of math are you using? Feb 27 13:04:40 does anyone know if there is ANY documentation about symbol dialog (Blue arrow + Ctrl) ? Feb 27 13:04:43 alterego: I think he is rewriting the maemo one Feb 27 13:04:48 I am not working on a dialer, Feb 27 13:04:56 I am simply reverse engineering the maemo dialer Feb 27 13:04:59 jonwil: :) didn't think you were Feb 27 13:05:01 to find out anything special it does Feb 27 13:05:05 alterego: Is there hope the stuff you are doing for Meego will be portable for other OSes? Feb 27 13:05:17 or maybe if its oss, where sould i look? Feb 27 13:05:19 RST38h: yes, provided it uses ofono ... Feb 27 13:05:39 alterego: I.e. no way to plug anything esle? Feb 27 13:05:40 RST38h: that and the application engine can be adapted. I might port it to maemo for a laugh Feb 27 13:06:04 http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/research/qmldialer/20110227_130312.png Feb 27 13:06:20 At the moment I've just cloned the current meego reference dialer UX in QML Feb 27 13:06:56 OMG HE IS USING ABSOLUTE PATHS Feb 27 13:07:08 * RST38h explodes Feb 27 13:07:19 Yes, I've not put in the theme engine support yet :P Feb 27 13:07:48 And that UX is subject to radically change. Feb 27 13:08:03 I'm more prototyping the interface between Qt and the Qml UI code. Feb 27 13:08:11 trx: what about it? Feb 27 13:08:12 timeless_w7ip: why, am i wrong? Feb 27 13:08:15 and no, it isn't open Feb 27 13:08:23 So eventually, anyone can hack together a QML UX for the dialer and use my Qt application engine code to power it. Feb 27 13:08:31 Imagine what themers could do to a device then ;) Feb 27 13:08:40 kerio: why isn't 300/3 = 100? Feb 27 13:08:45 timeless_w7ip i need to know how does it send characters to focused widget Feb 27 13:08:47 i said it's almost 150 Feb 27 13:08:58 it's almost a million too... Feb 27 13:09:06 no, it's way less than a million Feb 27 13:09:39 which package provides the symbol dialog? Feb 27 13:09:42 timeless_w7ip do i need to set some special flags or something.. because my custom widget doesnt recieve any keyboard events.. Feb 27 13:09:42 trx: um, xtrace is your friend Feb 27 13:10:07 http://xtrace.alioth.debian.org/ Feb 27 13:10:20 nice Feb 27 13:10:20 from memory it does take some magic Feb 27 13:10:31 the mozilla port ran into pain when dealing w/ it Feb 27 13:10:38 you could look to see how we handled it Feb 27 13:10:42 doesnt matter, gives me a start Feb 27 13:10:49 Specifically want I am reverse engineering is anything the maemo dialer does that isnt UI Feb 27 13:10:53 because there is nothing about it.. Feb 27 13:11:06 http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?string=maemo&find=qt Feb 27 13:11:22 jonwil: it supports <.> ;-) Feb 27 13:11:30 the ui someone linked to only offered + Feb 27 13:11:44 it also somewhat supports

and iirc Feb 27 13:12:29 jonwil: it's closed, so i'm not sure how the package helps Feb 27 13:12:36 it'd be an inputmethod something Feb 27 13:12:41 ok Feb 27 13:13:22 and yes, it's more or less stupid Feb 27 13:13:26 such is life Feb 27 13:13:27 I doubt the dialer is doing anything special in the UI that would be essential for a custom dialer clone Feb 27 13:13:56 well all of the #<...> stuff is magical Feb 27 13:14:03 e.g. the sequence to get the system version Feb 27 13:14:34 while you're adding features, please let me before a call is established Feb 27 13:14:54 if i want to mute, and the call isn't ready, your'e a program, and you can remember that i want to mute, and when the call is ready, you can mute Feb 27 13:14:59 and then i, a user, will be happy Feb 27 13:15:29 jonwil: the dialer is in charge of showing incoming call as well, so it's always running afair Feb 27 13:15:37 ok Feb 27 13:15:51 basically the idiots designing the ui were told "we can't mute until X" so the ui people said to the app author "don't let the mute button work until we're told it will work" Feb 27 13:15:55 And there are special things, like handling ussd codes. Feb 27 13:15:59 Emergency calls Feb 27 13:16:25 There is actually a whole raft of things that a good dialer has to do. Maybe look at the current meego dialer reference app to get an idea. Feb 27 13:16:25 you need to deal w/ putting a call on hold Feb 27 13:16:32 and trying to conference a call Feb 27 13:16:34 As the maemo dialer app will be quite similar in functions. Feb 27 13:16:43 you also to some extent are responsible for dealing w/ audio policy Feb 27 13:16:52 e.g. screwing up the camera when you're on a call Feb 27 13:16:52 Yeah Feb 27 13:17:02 i'd recommend not screwing up the camera, but that might not be possible Feb 27 13:17:12 ideally i should be able to take a picture while i'm using the phone Feb 27 13:17:17 but again, see ui idiots Feb 27 13:17:23 (and local regulations) Feb 27 13:17:56 the law iirc is in a country to which the n900 did not originally sell Feb 27 13:18:26 so write a camera-ui replacement :P Feb 27 13:18:29 but because nokia, being a big corporation, doesn't want to deal w/ inconsistencies or future lawsuits etc. the restriction was global Feb 27 13:18:58 well, basically you should be aware that the app you're replacing deals w/ the audio-policy stuff Feb 27 13:19:12 the simplest path is to do the same audio policy requests that it did Feb 27 13:19:24 but there are other paths (after you've implemented the simple path) Feb 27 13:19:54 well I am not actually going to be writing code Feb 27 13:19:59 just some documentation of what its doing Feb 27 13:20:16 funny irony, that 'power kernel' :D Feb 27 13:21:02 jonwil: sure, then this goes to the doc Feb 27 13:21:17 and only the bits that look specific to the dialer or special or wierd or funky. For example, I dont see any reason to document what the phone dialer is doing with rtcom-eventlogger Feb 27 13:21:43 maybe just which functions its calling Feb 27 13:24:00 well Feb 27 13:24:14 someone needs to know who is responsible for showing incoming calls Feb 27 13:24:21 and showing missed calls in the switcher Feb 27 13:24:38 and whether those missed calls are still visible after the battery is exhausted Feb 27 13:24:55 (please don't assume i know the answer to these questions, i'm lazy) Feb 27 13:25:37 oh, and the speakerphone button is very important Feb 27 13:25:51 speakerphone and other things are dbus calls IIRC Feb 27 13:25:51 as is the ability to turn on/off the video camera while in a video supporting call Feb 27 13:26:48 * timeless_w7ip shrugs Feb 27 13:26:55 the dialer still has to expose it Feb 27 13:27:21 bonus points for spelling out the names of the functions to save the dialer author further research Feb 27 13:31:18 in the case of the speakerphone, I will document the details of the dbus call it makes :) Feb 27 13:33:02 :) Feb 27 13:33:58 how the guy writing the dialer clone exposes the feature is up to them Feb 27 13:39:40 hm, timeless_w7ip now im lost, how would you suggest i setup xtrace? Feb 27 13:40:19 (considering that there is no package for maemo) Feb 27 13:40:30 trx: run it on another computer Feb 27 13:40:48 you basically want to run an app w/ DISPLAY:3 which is xtrace Feb 27 13:40:58 and have xtrace send its data back to DISPLAY:0 Feb 27 13:42:01 trx: note that maemo generally works from in a scratchbox where DISPLAY=:2 Feb 27 13:42:01 ok, ty Feb 27 13:42:17 so it's just a matter of being fancy with things Feb 27 13:42:22 yeah Feb 27 13:42:50 im kinda new to the whole X stuff Feb 27 13:43:06 you might end up wanting to have the entire xsession running to the xtrace (probably will actually) Feb 27 13:43:54 k, i'll give it a try.. Feb 27 13:47:06 fwiw, i'd suggest you start w/ the simple stuff: Feb 27 13:47:08 1. get xtrace Feb 27 13:47:10 2. run it Feb 27 13:47:13 3. use it on xeyes Feb 27 13:47:15 hey all \o/ Feb 27 13:47:34 whats the password for su in scratchbox? Feb 27 13:47:35 * SpeedEvil looks up turtle soup recipies. Feb 27 13:48:47 there is a trutle soup also :o Feb 27 13:48:48 ? Feb 27 13:49:23 turtle: err Feb 27 13:49:27 fakeroot Feb 27 13:49:30 ~fakeroot Feb 27 13:49:30 rumour has it, fakeroot is at http://freshmeat.net/projects/fakeroot/ Feb 27 13:49:43 turtle: scratchbox is not a vm Feb 27 13:49:59 su would still be the real computer's su, but you really would not want to do that Feb 27 13:50:11 hmm Feb 27 13:50:22 i am using the downloaded vm Feb 27 13:50:25 ubuntu Feb 27 13:50:35 want to do an apt-get Feb 27 13:50:44 dont have the permissions Feb 27 13:50:51 what to do? Feb 27 13:51:02 google fakeroot maemo Feb 27 13:51:07 * Turtle^^ moves slowly to win the race Feb 27 13:51:15 ok Feb 27 14:13:58 The NY Times reports that there are indications that a sea change is taking place in consumer behavior as a result of the great recession: Americans are buying less tech stuff and making it last longer Feb 27 14:14:08 OMG back to durable goods? Feb 27 14:14:18 What will Chinese do??? Feb 27 14:14:31 Print more money, of course. Feb 27 14:14:53 Are their printing US money or their own? Feb 27 14:15:05 Does it make a difference? Feb 27 14:15:09 they can ask for their money back from the us Feb 27 14:15:26 I don't think they can. Feb 27 14:15:30 Dunno, probably does to Wall Street Feb 27 14:15:31 They already have all our money. Feb 27 14:15:39 Patti Hauseman stuck with her five-year-old Apple computer until it started making odd whirring noises and occasionally malfunctioning! Feb 27 14:15:55 Ah, the horror! The suffering! Feb 27 14:17:56 Stuck with a Mac for five years does sound pretty horrifying. Feb 27 14:18:25 not if you're a loyal mac fan Feb 27 14:19:00 Being a loyal Mac fan sounds pretty horrifying, too. Feb 27 14:26:53 RST38h: question - do you mind if i make arrowkeys in Falcons Eye go 'diagonal' by default and 'straight' with CTRL-Arrow? Feb 27 14:27:10 so for e.g. 'left' arrow would go 'up-left' Feb 27 14:27:35 right now the game can't be navigated with arrow keys - but you can use the roguelike directions Feb 27 14:27:45 which are also pretty bad since the n900 keybd is shifted Feb 27 14:40:43 timeless_w7ip: hmm, removing all widgets and battery monitoring daemons seems to have had no effect. I've noticed however that hildon-desktop continuously causes about 8% cpu load. Is that normal? Feb 27 14:41:59 dschoepe: do you have many widgets? Feb 27 14:42:29 alterego: I removed all of them to see whether one of them was causing my unusually short battery life Feb 27 14:42:43 Ah, m'kay Feb 27 14:42:54 I'll check if rebooting helps Feb 27 14:43:41 dsh check also the plugins to the top bar, the update flasher thing and other misc Feb 27 14:45:03 lcukn901: I only have a brightness-applet and the 3g/2g-switcher Feb 27 14:55:10 hi how to set default email client (maemo 5, n900) to use unicode ? Feb 27 15:02:19 * timeless_w7ip wonders what modest uses Feb 27 15:03:01 juozapas: what's it sending instead? Feb 27 15:05:38 ? symbols Feb 27 15:07:01 timeless_w7ip: any ideas ? Feb 27 15:07:06 use gmail Feb 27 15:07:54 juozapas? really modest does not support unicode? Feb 27 15:08:11 timeless_w7ip: i'm using gmail Feb 27 15:08:58 it was ok before, i think maybe something changed after update Feb 27 15:10:35 and you're really talking about sending? Feb 27 15:11:32 no, about received mails Feb 27 15:11:56 you're probably missing a font Feb 27 15:12:05 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7402 Feb 27 15:12:07 Bug 7402: Modest not handling single apostrophe (#146) Feb 27 15:24:34 timeless_w7ip, why does microB enable portrait UI even if the desktop isn't rotated Feb 27 15:26:47 mohammad: eh? Feb 27 15:27:05 portrait ui in microb is controlled by a user pref in options/settings whatever you call that stuff Feb 27 15:27:43 timeless_office, yes, but it fails with orientation lock Feb 27 15:28:09 timeless_w7ip, basically, it listens to mce instead of hildon-desktop Feb 27 15:28:09 "fails"? Feb 27 15:28:23 * timeless_w7ip wonders wtf orientation lock is Feb 27 15:28:56 if you're talking about an imaginary feature which was introduced long after support was added in microb Feb 27 15:29:02 which i suspect you are Feb 27 15:29:03 something i implemented Feb 27 15:29:06 then i hope the answer is obvious Feb 27 15:29:08 oh wait Feb 27 15:29:18 it locks orientation to landscape Feb 27 15:29:18 you're asking why a shipped product didn't predict a future mutation? Feb 27 15:29:21 are you *nuts*? Feb 27 15:29:31 no, all@stock apps do it properly Feb 27 15:29:39 we just aren't that good at reading tea leaves Feb 27 15:29:40 fucking hildon-input-method Feb 27 15:29:42 sorry Feb 27 15:29:50 HIM supports this? :) Feb 27 15:30:00 (him is a stock app!) Feb 27 15:30:11 him isn't a UI Feb 27 15:30:28 but the N900's failing atm, PVR getting stuck so it makes typos Feb 27 15:31:25 mohammad: we were basically the first app after image viewer + phone to support portrait mode Feb 27 15:31:29 we did it because we needed it Feb 27 15:31:38 we were not given particularly useful or helpful guidance Feb 27 15:32:16 nor were we given useful requirements beyond 'support portrait mode' Feb 27 15:33:16 heh Feb 27 15:34:14 is there some software to update the tiles cache (e. g. of openstreetmap tiles)? Feb 27 15:35:54 sp3000: ping Feb 27 15:35:59 * timeless_w7ip needs help Feb 27 15:36:19 timeless_w7ip: plongg Feb 27 15:37:28 * timeless_w7ip kicks comic chat for being painful Feb 27 15:38:57 timeless, recent build of comic chat or dug out from archive? Feb 27 15:38:57 * timeless_w7ip kicks comic chat Feb 27 15:39:26 archives :* Feb 27 15:40:13 re Feb 27 15:40:28 Azog: did you find any info for your question yet? Feb 27 15:41:14 pupnik: no Feb 27 15:42:22 i'll snoop around a bit Azog ... btw enabling wlan increased idle current from 2mA to 16mA Feb 27 15:43:00 i wonder if there's a way to get that wlan power down even more to 'demand-only' communications Feb 27 15:43:50 timeless_w7ip, one more question, is it possible to get updates for closed source parts? Feb 27 15:43:57 for the CSSU Feb 27 15:57:24 MohammadAG: I think that those bugfixes that are done but haven't made it into the official SSU could be included Feb 27 15:57:53 Venemo, I was thinking of stuff for microB, contacts etc Feb 27 15:58:00 Somebody needs to add windows to FBReader. Feb 27 15:58:10 I mean, adding a portrait flag to Contacts is piss easy Feb 27 15:58:27 it just needs someone to do it, compile the binary and ship it to us Feb 27 15:59:15 my n900 connect to wireless automatically while I don't press anything ? why? Feb 27 15:59:16 MohammadAG: also, there are bugfixes for MicroB that are documented to be fixed a year ago, but haven't made it into any PR yet Feb 27 16:01:35 venemo: because management killed the release vehicles Feb 27 16:01:51 timeless_w7ip: yes, you told me that already :) Feb 27 16:02:03 timeless_w7ip: we agreed on the fact that your management is nuts :P Feb 27 16:02:05 mohammadag: ask your official contacct Feb 27 16:02:15 there's no way in hell that i can give them to you Feb 27 16:02:30 i'd probably be fired for theft Feb 27 16:02:33 <_0x47> Hi, would you suggest moving to MeeGo with my N900? Is Maemo dead yet? Feb 27 16:02:42 no. no. Feb 27 16:02:44 ~cssu Feb 27 16:02:45 hmm... cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU Feb 27 16:03:02 _0x47: does your n900 still work? Feb 27 16:03:04 timeless_w7ip: I think MohammadAG is looking for an official way to do this, and not asking you to steal code Feb 27 16:03:16 is it working any less today than it was 5 months ago? Feb 27 16:03:34 venemo: *shrug*. we have our code integrated the same way everyone else does Feb 27 16:03:39 <_0x47> timeless_w7ip: sure, but it really sucks to have no recent packages and I don't see any progress in getting newer packages (core) Feb 27 16:03:50 which means that whomever his contact is has the same access to it as everything else (except flash) Feb 27 16:04:04 _0x47: see infobot's url Feb 27 16:06:09 dschoepe: read http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools regarding 8% HD CPU hog Feb 27 16:08:13 DocScrutinizer: thanks Feb 27 16:09:53 <_0x47> timeless_w7ip: i see, but how would CSSU update closed source binaries from nokia (e.g. drivers)? reverse engineering? Feb 27 16:10:35 dschoepe: are you using catorize or apmefo? Feb 27 16:11:45 categorize, yes Feb 27 16:12:13 iirc the cpu hog got triggered by bouncing up and down by 0 pixels constantly any window with kinetic scrolling that's actually shorter than screen height Feb 27 16:13:00 particularly applauncher when there's been too less icons to make the window scrollable Feb 27 16:13:37 hmmm microb browser has lost on one tab the 'reload' option on the menu. all other pages have it. Feb 27 16:13:42 curious Feb 27 16:14:04 lcukn901: Ctrl+R Feb 27 16:14:31 thanks, but the missing menu is bit odd Feb 27 16:14:49 <_0x47> timeless_w7ip: anyhow, thanks for pointing me there! Feb 27 16:14:49 it will probably come back when i reopen tab Feb 27 16:15:38 lol venemo, it came back after doing that manual ctrl R refresh, double thanks Feb 27 16:17:58 mohammadag: ask your official contacct Feb 27 16:18:06 who's my official contact? Feb 27 16:31:03 Hmm... is there a German online who wouldn't mind answering me a question nothing to do with maemo? Feb 27 16:33:35 dashavoo: sure, go ahead Feb 27 16:34:38 thanks dschoepe, I'll pm you so as not to spam the channel Feb 27 16:39:50 anybody know a mp3 player that does EQ before transforming from frequency to time-domain? Feb 27 16:46:30 pupnik: that'd be sooooo nice Feb 27 16:46:59 pupnik: did you find anything for the tiles cache? Feb 27 16:47:04 To boost the number of Windows Phone 7 apps, Microsoft has relaxed a strict rule and will let employees moonlight and keep the resulting intellectual property and 70% of the revenue, as long as that second job is writing apps for WP7-based devices. Feb 27 16:47:30 * DocScrutinizer curses this impinching MAFW concept Feb 27 16:47:46 Heh Feb 27 16:47:56 mafw is a good idea imo Feb 27 16:48:06 I think most of our services should be based around dbus services. Feb 27 16:48:11 DocScrutinizer: i think winamp used to do that :D Feb 27 16:48:18 dbus has performance problems Feb 27 16:48:21 http://cekirdek.uludag.org.tr/~ismail/ffmpeg-docs/mpegaudiodec_8c-source.html looking at this Feb 27 16:48:24 Allows for a much more unified and integrated UX Feb 27 16:48:35 RST38h: sure, but those things can be addressed. Feb 27 16:48:49 you definitely WANT some way of communication between front end and back end, but dbus adds a shitload of overhead Feb 27 16:49:09 alterego:people have been banging on dbus for years Feb 27 16:49:15 alterego: send audio via dbus? are you nuts? Feb 27 16:49:16 Yeah Feb 27 16:49:24 DocScrutinizer: no, not send audio via dbus :P Feb 27 16:49:28 Doc: Hasn't Arts done that? Feb 27 16:49:51 DocScrutinizer: what low frequencies would you throw away for n900? I'm guessing anything below 200hz at least Feb 27 16:50:18 RST38h: NFC, Arts hasn't had >100 cpu-seconds on all my machines added up Feb 27 16:50:22 there's a table of bands, but the allocation of those seems to be dynamic Feb 27 16:50:38 pupnik: probably 150 Feb 27 16:52:34 RST38h: *I* sometimes wish devels wouldn't think client/server and frontend/backend for each cmdline echo binary Feb 27 16:55:28 Can I map control characters such as Escape or Tab to e.g. Fn+y? My naive attempt at just putting them there in rx-51 didn't work; not Fn+y only produces a y. Feb 27 16:55:34 *now Fn+y.. Feb 27 16:56:03 pupnik: you could run a freq sweep via ALSA (w/o XPROT) and see what freq range the N900 speakers actually support, then for sure cut out any freq bands that wouldn't result in any noticeable output anyway Feb 27 16:56:37 i'll download a sample sindewave from somewhere Feb 27 16:56:47 DocScrutinizer: mafw doesn't send audio over dbus Feb 27 16:57:05 Venemo: I never suggested that Feb 27 16:58:04 mafw is just using a standard mp3 decoder that has none of the easy-to-implement nice-to-have features like EQ Feb 27 16:58:29 seamless playback of consecutive files... Feb 27 16:58:43 pitch/tempo adjust Feb 27 16:59:14 aka seamless FFW/REW Feb 27 16:59:49 dynamic compression/expansion Feb 27 17:00:08 whatnot else Feb 27 17:00:28 all much easier to implement in frequency domain rather than time domain Feb 27 17:01:30 for N900 MAFW/PA audio chain I'd not be surprised to learn we got 3 or 4 or more FFT and back Feb 27 17:01:48 Ahaha Feb 27 17:02:51 freq sweep 300hz to 5 hz, 5 seconds >> sox -r 22050 -n output.wav synth 5 sine 300-5 Feb 27 17:03:02 DocScrutinizer: in this case, all we would have to do is remove the mp3 gstreamer plugin and install a sane one Feb 27 17:03:50 Venemo: heh, yeah. One that comes with proper UIs for the new features.... friggin nonsense Feb 27 17:04:27 still that wouldn't help for seamless FFW/REW and gapless playback Feb 27 17:04:42 why not? Feb 27 17:05:35 because all API is missing for that, as well as GUI support from player, in case of seamless FFW Feb 27 17:06:06 even gapless playback isn't supported by player afaik Feb 27 17:06:31 as next pipe gets set up no earlier than last song ended Feb 27 17:06:41 or do sox -r 22050 -n output.wav synth 30 sine 180-20 Feb 27 17:06:49 and see at how many seconds the audio is not audible Feb 27 17:07:34 I suggest using a semi-decent mic and HDD-recording, then check amplitude and freq in e.g audacity Feb 27 17:09:18 DocScrutinizer: gapless playback is not a question of media player GUI Feb 27 17:09:25 damn, in the 80s even 30$ radios came with a product sheet claiming 250-16000Hz. N900 doesn't need such tech specs for customer Feb 27 17:09:45 Venemo: well, maybe it isn't Feb 27 17:09:50 DocScrutinizer: GUI just gives a playlist to MAFW to play, and MAFW plays it. so lack of gapless is a fault of MAFW Feb 27 17:10:24 probably you have to send the list for next 2 hours playback to MAFW and hope you get notice when next song starts Feb 27 17:10:35 yeah Feb 27 17:11:03 great, so how do you implement cross-fade? Feb 27 17:11:30 such stuff needs to be implemented in MAFW Feb 27 17:12:19 yes Feb 27 17:12:29 sorry, I'm rather consolidated in my notion MAFW is a brainfucked concept Feb 27 17:12:32 you just need to change gstreamer pipes in mafw Feb 27 17:12:41 mafw's source that is Feb 27 17:13:45 DocScrutinizer: :) Feb 27 17:14:13 DocScrutinizer: actually, is there any concept in Maemo that you don't find brainfucked? :P Feb 27 17:14:32 introducing all sorts of layering issues and limitations for no obvious purpose or benefit Feb 27 17:14:50 Venemo: sure, a whole lot Feb 27 17:14:59 the fact that mafw's open source means we can have crossfade in stock player Feb 27 17:15:12 actually, the player's just a GUI that does nothing Feb 27 17:16:06 that's the problem Feb 27 17:16:33 ok yes, at about 150hz there is no usable music output Feb 27 17:19:38 heh, gimme 5 Feb 27 17:23:10 as retarded as Nokia's decision to use the 256MB flash for the OS is, it's better than the iPhone's approach Feb 27 17:24:10 MohammadAG: What does the iPhone do? Feb 27 17:25:05 actually reversing the sweep from low-to-high is a better test perhaps Feb 27 17:25:10 i only start to notice the sound around 160hz Feb 27 17:25:25 and i can't increase volume above 1/2 or else the speaker rattles Feb 27 17:26:39 Jaffa, wipes the 32GBs when you restore Feb 27 17:26:55 a "full" backup doesn't include songs Feb 27 17:29:57 pupnik: so depending on whether you use ALSA or PA-playing-ALSA or PA-native you get XPROT or mere HW freq plot Feb 27 17:30:19 actually i'd say it's about 200 hz Feb 27 17:30:38 there's just no usable output below it Feb 27 17:30:54 ok, no useable output sounds about right Feb 27 17:33:07 still you want to place the -6/-12dBm point (I'd suggest to use a 12dB/octave filter) to 150Hz, not to 200Hz ;-) Feb 27 17:35:48 nota bene this still would start reducing volume at freq >>150Hz Feb 27 17:39:40 does anyone know how I can detect the current build target when building in maemo.org's builder? Feb 27 17:39:44 no, no traditional filter... discard freqs... Feb 27 17:39:54 simply drop anything below 200hz Feb 27 17:40:09 "if sb-conf current |grep ARMEL" doesn't seem to work Feb 27 17:41:05 pupnik: it's physically impossible to "discard frequencies" Feb 27 17:41:44 * pupnik winks at DocScrutinizer who has to think again about how mp3 works Feb 27 17:43:03 cutting out a single band in freq domain might sound awful I'm afraid Feb 27 17:43:18 how does mp3 store audio information? Feb 27 17:43:21 (and ogg) Feb 27 17:43:50 basically via additive synthesis Feb 27 17:44:57 and a tone with a slight vibrato close to your cutoff freq with infinite sharpness will sound stuttering and awful Feb 27 17:45:01 how can I see my version of maemo from terminal ? Feb 27 17:46:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-1_Audio_Layer_II Feb 27 17:46:53 osso-product-info Feb 27 17:48:04 IroN900:~# osso-product-info -q OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION Feb 27 17:48:06 10.2010.19-1 Feb 27 17:48:34 thanks Feb 27 17:48:54 also `echo $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION` as all those are envs as well Feb 27 17:49:07 mintux, i have this in one of my makefiles which seems to work ok at least for most builds UNAMEISARM := $(shell uname -m | grep arm) Feb 27 17:49:44 20.2010.36-2 here Feb 27 17:49:59 why you have an older one DocScrutinizer ? Feb 27 17:49:59 yeah, PR1.2 here Feb 27 17:50:09 1.3 not to your liking? Feb 27 17:50:15 not really Feb 27 17:50:36 what should i look-for that sucks? Feb 27 17:50:36 hmm Feb 27 17:51:25 downgrade path, broken restore when trying to restore for PR1.2 Feb 27 17:52:37 Nokia once again managed to fsckup the repos (ok, admittedly only for testing and devel, but nevertheless - the user here that has NO pkg from testing/devel installed please holler) Feb 27 17:54:00 so yeah, I can restore to PR1.2 - but STOCK Pr1.2, and that's just an insult Feb 27 17:54:03 if is install ussd-common can I dial some special code from my phone? Feb 27 17:54:23 err wut? Feb 27 17:54:30 use starhash enabler Feb 27 17:54:54 it's even in extras :-D Feb 27 17:55:09 when I want to check my credit with this code *140*1# it said incorrect number Feb 27 17:55:20 use starhash enabler Feb 27 17:55:44 jaffa, the computer detection stuff using 2d barcodes, I have this photo taken from BCN 2009 trip: http://liqbase.net/liq.barcode.advert.barcelona.for.lardman.20091204_002.jpg Feb 27 17:56:06 thanks Feb 27 17:56:09 yw Feb 27 17:56:27 thnaks for using *# starhash-enabler :-D Feb 27 17:58:23 DocScrutinizer: it said again incorrect number . my number is *140*1# Feb 27 17:58:39 you installed *# ? Feb 27 17:59:04 DocScrutinizer : yeap sudo apt-get install starhash-enabler Feb 27 17:59:18 umm, please use HAM Feb 27 17:59:30 also I installed ussd-common and ussd-widget Feb 27 17:59:36 does it need to reboot? Feb 27 17:59:41 you don't need those Feb 27 17:59:46 no Feb 27 18:00:02 what is HAM? Feb 27 18:00:09 the app manager Feb 27 18:00:14 ~ham Feb 27 18:00:15 somebody said ham was oink oink. Hildon Application Manager. Hazardous Application Manager. Hildon application Manager Ham is also lovely with pickle. Feb 27 18:00:24 ahan Feb 27 18:00:38 what difference ? Feb 27 18:00:55 *# isn't tested with apt-get Feb 27 18:01:21 and *# is a rather special 'program' Feb 27 18:01:30 it has zero executable binary Feb 27 18:01:44 I simply dunno what apt-get will do Feb 27 18:01:52 hmm Feb 27 18:02:33 esp when run without run-satndalone.sh Feb 27 18:02:43 standalone Feb 27 18:02:58 I bet it will fail, so please use HAM Feb 27 18:03:52 ok Feb 27 18:04:00 should I have remove it before? Feb 27 18:04:14 don't forget to clean aka uninstall it via apt-get previously Feb 27 18:04:18 yes Feb 27 18:10:38 (topic dialer) you're aware it's absolutely mandatory to quit any call when dialer process quits, for whatever reason, segfault or kill -9 or "pressing the close button" or OOM Feb 27 18:11:07 ^^^ unrelated to mintux conv. Feb 27 18:13:46 actually dialer should even get watched by dsme like some other important processes (bme for example), and process restarted if watchdog expires. Rationale: you MUST avoid to keep calls established on dialer segfault/freeze that cost maybe 9$/min. Even worse keep them established without user even noticing that Feb 27 18:15:32 and telepathy/whatever has to take care about freezes in a similar way, basically if ISI doesn't have a call to tickle a WD in cmt then it's flawed as is cmt-firmware Feb 27 18:16:06 s/call/method/ Feb 27 18:16:07 DocScrutinizer meant: and telepathy/whatever has to take care about freezes in a similar way, basimethody if ISI doesn't have a call to tickle a WD in cmt then it's flawed as is cmt-firmware Feb 27 18:16:28 s/ call/ method/ Feb 27 18:16:30 DocScrutinizer meant: and telepathy/whatever has to take care about freezes in a similar way, basically if ISI doesn't have a method to tickle a WD in cmt then it's flawed as is cmt-firmware Feb 27 18:17:21 heh Feb 27 18:18:13 DocScrutinizer: mpg123 can do it! "free" eq! http://mpg123.orgis.org/api/group__mpg123__voleq.shtml Feb 27 18:18:23 \o/ Feb 27 18:23:22 DocScrutinizer: I installed from HAM not different Feb 27 18:23:27 doesn't worrk Feb 27 18:23:40 that's weird Feb 27 18:24:50 :-( Feb 27 18:25:43 mintux: Feb 27 18:26:13 please `cat /home/user/.osso/call-ui.ini` Feb 27 18:26:31 check for " Feb 27 18:26:34 [supplementary] Feb 27 18:26:36 ssc=1 Feb 27 18:26:37 " Feb 27 18:28:35 mintux: while installing via HAM, you've seen a yellow notifier saying "restarting rtcom-call-ui dialer now" (or words to the effect) ? Feb 27 18:29:07 DocScrutinizer: no Feb 27 18:29:23 DocScrutinizer: just installed application Feb 27 18:29:28 I guess you messed sth up by installing via apt Feb 27 18:29:34 [rotation] Feb 27 18:29:35 orientation=2 Feb 27 18:29:35 [supplementary] Feb 27 18:29:35 ssc=1 Feb 27 18:30:02 DocScrutinizer:I removed before install from HAM Feb 27 18:30:21 docscrutinizer?@really installation of app requires interaction? Feb 27 18:30:29 killall -9 rtcom-call-ui Feb 27 18:30:50 lcukn902: nope Feb 27 18:30:56 just notifier Feb 27 18:31:18 so it requires hildon access Feb 27 18:31:37 which might fail for apt-get running as root Feb 27 18:32:28 DocScrutinizer: done . then ? Feb 27 18:32:34 though it sounds a silly explanation to me, as HAM as well runs apt-get Feb 27 18:32:38 retry Feb 27 18:32:44 Has anybody built bluez 4.89? Feb 27 18:33:16 DocScrutinizer: what should happen after killall -9 rtcom-call-ui Feb 27 18:33:18 and recheck if cat /home/user/.osso/call-ui.ini is unchanged Feb 27 18:33:26 nothing really Feb 27 18:33:32 nothing visible Feb 27 18:33:37 hmm Feb 27 18:33:45 after that what should I do? Feb 27 18:33:53 dialer process gets retarted and reads in the config file with SSC=1 Feb 27 18:34:03 hmm Feb 27 18:34:12 so open dial and enter number? Feb 27 18:34:20 restarted* Feb 27 18:34:24 yep Feb 27 18:34:33 reboot my phone ? Feb 27 18:34:42 shouldn't be needed Feb 27 18:34:55 start with trying *#61# Feb 27 18:35:14 :'( incorrect number Feb 27 18:35:28 answering my own question: "sb-conf show -A |grep -q -i arm" detects if the current build target is ARM Feb 27 18:35:39 should I remove ussd-common ? Feb 27 18:36:02 No. Feb 27 18:36:18 yes, I told you so Feb 27 18:36:26 mintux: ^^^ Feb 27 18:36:46 hmm Feb 27 18:37:43 sudo apt-get remove ussd-common ussd-widget starhash-enabler Feb 27 18:37:51 then install starhash-enabler from HAM Feb 27 18:38:00 mintux: testing it here, it works to the extent of reply "request not processed". My carrier supports same with *104*1# which works like a charm Feb 27 18:38:41 I hope they haven't fsckd it up in PR1.3 Feb 27 18:38:43 DocScrutinizer: I tried your number *#61# and got error Feb 27 18:38:54 DocScrutinizer: PR1.3 ? Feb 27 18:39:11 afaik it's on by default in 1.3 Feb 27 18:39:14 I might be wrong Feb 27 18:39:31 it's fsckdup by default it seems Feb 27 18:39:57 DocScrutinizer: I never update my phone since I bought it Feb 27 18:40:03 bad, bad idea Feb 27 18:40:09 duh Feb 27 18:40:54 I have lots of setting and information and I afraid to do that . and I don't have enough time to do that Feb 27 18:41:11 mintux: this isn't tested for hmm Feb 27 18:41:28 :-( Feb 27 18:42:09 mintux: update! Feb 27 18:42:22 indeed Feb 27 18:42:25 it's so bad . I can't update my phone soon . because I do a lot of settings on it such as link many directory to home folder Feb 27 18:42:36 and a lot of softwares Feb 27 18:42:40 backup then update Feb 27 18:43:05 mintux: what's result of ` osso-product-info -q OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION` ? Feb 27 18:43:25 3.2010.02-8.003 Feb 27 18:43:36 *cough* Feb 27 18:43:42 :-D Feb 27 18:43:47 good evening, i have a question to n900 Feb 27 18:44:31 when i start navit on xterm i get the message: "invalid type gpsd", what does this mean? Feb 27 18:46:19 mintux: if you would have updated incrementally from 1.0->1.0.1->1.1->1.2 you wouldn't have had any problems whatsoever about losing your config. Alas now I guess a FULL reflash is your only chance. So backup with backup app, then backup /home/user, and MyDocs, via USB mass storage, then do a full reflash as in Feb 27 18:46:21 ~flash Feb 27 18:46:22 [flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 27 18:46:39 i'm having some trouble with my n900 where suddenly it is unable to receive calls and texts. i have no way of knowing that this stopped functioning until someone tells me they can't reach me.... Feb 27 18:46:41 very annoying Feb 27 18:46:44 any idea what could be causing it? Feb 27 18:46:56 (a reboot fixes it) Feb 27 18:48:09 ok Feb 27 18:48:17 yay, you're like the third report like that, in a few days Feb 27 18:49:18 it's always problem I have with linux . it's very hard to upgrade when new version released :P Feb 27 18:49:52 bakarat: might be a hw problem. Reflash to a clean state, DO NOT restore any apps, and test if problem persists. If yes -> repair hw. If no, then come back and we might find the sw causing the error Feb 27 18:51:38 has anyone a answer for my question? Feb 27 18:51:53 sorry for my bad english :-( Feb 27 18:52:51 Strunz: this probably means N900 has no gpsd of the kind navit needs Feb 27 18:54:51 DocScrutinizer, what must i do to solve this problem? Feb 27 18:56:33 sorry no idea. If I'd guess I'd say you imported and built navit source from somewhere, and it's not adapted to meet maemo system Feb 27 18:57:07 basically afaik there's no gpsd on maemo5 Feb 27 18:57:12 minigpsd Feb 27 19:41:15 what what? Feb 27 19:41:21 in the butt? Feb 27 19:41:46 i said what what Feb 27 19:41:47 in the butt Feb 27 19:51:06 guys Feb 27 19:51:16 girlz Feb 27 19:51:16 anyone know more about android 2.3.3 compatibility? Feb 27 19:51:44 info from e-yes : #android 2.3.3 and Nokia #n900 are compatible:) Feb 27 19:51:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiFQk08xqME&feature=player_embedded Feb 27 19:51:58 i can see on this movie sms notyfication Feb 27 19:52:13 or something like that.. Feb 27 19:52:16 #nitdroid Feb 27 19:52:22 Ask e-yes. Feb 27 19:53:07 hmm Feb 27 19:53:13 Hi, does anyone know about using qdbus with interfaces with hyphens? eg com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer Feb 27 19:53:16 i think he doesnt like responsing about nitdroid status Feb 27 19:53:28 but maybe have some logs about 2.3.3 from irc Feb 27 19:53:28 ;) Feb 27 19:53:34 Because he gets pestered for support. Feb 27 19:54:47 true Feb 27 19:54:54 thats why i dont want to ask him :) Feb 27 19:55:00 well Feb 27 19:55:01 nevermind ;-) Feb 27 19:55:06 tarantism_, QDBus takes QStrings/QVariants, hyphens shouldn't matter in a string Feb 27 19:56:03 MohammadAG: I get an Invalid interface class: com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer Feb 27 19:56:21 Apparently hyphens are invalid in an interface Feb 27 19:56:59 oh, I see ... maybe Feb 27 19:57:05 http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/nowplayingwindow.cpp#line198 Feb 27 19:57:54 MohammadAG: Thanks, I'll look over that code. Feb 27 19:58:38 That looks perfect. Feb 27 19:58:51 Not always easy to find this stuff!!! Feb 27 20:00:19 puchaty; http://gitorious.org/android-n900 Feb 27 20:00:36 yw :) Feb 27 21:26:44 Oh no, Mohammedia Player has competition! Feb 27 21:27:00 orly? Feb 27 21:27:13 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70405 Feb 27 21:28:30 I used SomePlayer for some time. It eats to much CPU, so I dropped it. Maybe now it's better, dunno. Feb 27 21:28:32 and it looks good Feb 27 21:32:15 Sounds like, from the description, that it doesn't use MAFW & Tracker? Feb 27 21:33:21 Correct. Feb 27 21:34:28 It uses Phonon Feb 27 21:34:32 * alterego chuckles Feb 27 21:34:46 And do we trust software written by Russians? Feb 27 21:34:51 heh Feb 27 21:35:24 alterego, is this new kind of racism? ) Feb 27 21:35:47 Considering the security model that Maemo has (none) Feb 27 21:36:08 And the fact that Russia is the largest entity when it comes to cyber fraud etc. Feb 27 21:36:14 I think it's probably a valid point :P Feb 27 21:36:19 I'm from Ukraine, but we're pretty close to Russia and I speak russian usually. Feb 27 21:36:48 I'm not being nasty about Russians in general, but Russian programmers usually work for the mob, as they get paid a lot more :) Feb 27 21:36:55 heh Feb 27 21:37:21 All I'm suggesting is, someone audit his code ;) Feb 27 21:37:55 * alterego chuckles Feb 27 21:38:26 Heh ) I have no objection) Feb 27 21:39:51 alterego, the most downloaded and adored maemo app (omweather) has a heavy Russian influence Feb 27 21:40:11 Oh really? Interesting :) Feb 27 21:40:24 You see? They're very clever ... Feb 27 21:40:31 only in so far as your views of russian developers Feb 27 21:40:33 They write popular apps with trojans :P Feb 27 21:41:02 vlad and tanya and wazd have done a great deal for our devices Feb 27 21:41:14 I know, I know Feb 27 21:41:18 I'm just bored. Feb 27 21:41:19 as well as many other devs up and down the oss spectrum Feb 27 21:41:39 Though, I must admit that Russia(and most ex-Soviet countrires) do not have solid Computer Science education in high schools. Many programmers are selfmade. Feb 27 21:41:39 well please stop insuting entire nations Feb 27 21:42:09 * SpeedEvil puts on 'Blame Canada'. Feb 27 21:42:24 Well, I wasn't insulting an entire nation, just an entire nations programming population Feb 27 21:42:28 :) Feb 27 21:42:30 LOL Feb 27 21:43:16 Maybe their FOSS software is so good because they dedicate more time because they get paid millions for their "real" work ... Feb 27 21:43:28 Sputnik. Feb 27 21:44:03 Laika. Feb 27 21:44:08 * SpeedEvil will never forget. Feb 27 21:44:19 ))) Feb 27 21:44:32 * SpeedEvil forgets what he will never forget, but I will never forget that I was to never forget something. Feb 27 21:44:34 Maybe. Feb 27 21:44:40 divan: are you coding lisp again? Feb 27 21:45:06 alterego he is just finishing something he started months ago Feb 27 21:45:07 alterego, not funny ) Feb 27 21:45:20 Haha Feb 27 21:45:29 lcukn902: yeah, doing better than me to be honest. Feb 27 21:45:39 I've not worked on Columbus for almost a month :x Feb 27 21:46:12 * SpeedEvil wonders if columbis can do bus timetables. Feb 27 21:46:21 No :P Feb 27 21:46:42 * SpeedEvil needs to fix his keyboard. Feb 27 21:52:47 is ther app that when u plug in headphones, it starts musicplaye Feb 27 21:52:50 r Feb 27 21:53:11 There is an app which pauses the media player hen phones are unplugged I think. Feb 27 21:53:18 seriously??? Feb 27 21:53:23 there are sensors for that?? Feb 27 21:53:29 yes Feb 27 21:54:08 headphoned Feb 27 21:54:28 Actually, headphoned will pause when unplugged. Feb 27 21:54:33 chx: Yes, have you not noticed the status area gains an icon to show you when headphones & headsets are plugged in? And that it has its own volume level. Feb 27 21:55:10 mmm true. Feb 27 21:55:14 If you want it to start when plugged in, you can use actionmanagerdaemon Feb 27 21:57:45 see... n900 is powerful Feb 27 21:58:11 can the windows mobile community hack their device this easily Feb 27 21:58:13 i doubt it Feb 27 21:59:01 ... Feb 27 21:59:05 even android is a pain to work with. I had to go to some haxxor site to get a ssh daemon which i couldn't trust, had no feedback Feb 27 21:59:38 to build their browser takes like 15GB Feb 27 21:59:48 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/u8-3-0-touch-screen-dual-sim-dual-network-standby-quadband-gsm-tv-cell-phone-w-wifi-java-red-55711 Feb 27 21:59:55 Check out the on-screen 'widgets' Feb 27 22:00:35 haha i pasted http://www.dealextreme.com/p/cube-world-stick-people-series-2-handy-5571 Feb 27 22:01:26 nice copy of maemo icons Feb 27 22:36:20 could anyone tell me how to read strenght power of fm transmitter from terminal? :D Feb 27 22:38:59 cat /sys/clas/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/power_level ? Feb 27 22:41:31 the power level of my transmitter is <9000 :( Feb 27 22:41:37 yes, that one :D Feb 27 22:41:45 thank you hawaii_ :D Feb 27 22:54:22 http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/04/guess-their-origin-and-rate-their.html Finland beats Germany Feb 28 01:25:23 * GeneralAntilles yawns. Feb 28 01:29:37 valhalla resigned? Nice. Feb 28 01:51:02 bah, I found YET ANOTHER THING that is closed source in maemo and open source in meego Feb 28 01:51:06 ohm-plugins-misc Feb 28 02:02:39 heheh Feb 28 02:05:56 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320658879120&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT absolute classic 'SmashTV' console going for fairly good price - 50 minutes left Feb 28 02:19:46 I am sort of figuring some stuff out about the dialer but I dont know the best way to document the information Feb 28 02:31:08 wiki page comming up **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 28 02:59:57 2011