**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 28 02:59:57 2011 Feb 28 04:21:56 pupnik: I love mpg123 Feb 28 04:22:12 from what they have on their feature page Feb 28 04:23:10 >>GStreamer apps could also profit from getting libmpg123 mojo -- and there is a libmpg123 plugin for GStreamer, which apparently just needs some polish. See discussion at GNOME / Rhythmbox and launchpad bug for Rhythmbox<< for the MAFW fanboys Feb 28 04:32:39 I think ffmpeg is much faster than libmpg123 on arm Feb 28 04:45:40 >>The ffmpeg project could still profit from getting a libmpg123 wrapper: ffmpeg audio decoder performance comparison. Now a question is: Which fork of ffmpeg? I remember Michael saying that he won't oppose a wrapper when it's maintained, while Diego stronly argued for actually moving mpg123 code into ffmpeg and ditch any separate specialized library.<< Feb 28 04:46:28 http://mpg123.orgis.org/cgi-bin/news.cgi Feb 28 04:48:16 >> Feb 28 04:48:17 FFmpeg is quite an amazing program. There’s a certain smugness that comes with being involved with it. That can lead to a bit of complacency followed by shock when realizing that you’re not as good as you thought you were. Feb 28 04:48:19 That happened to me recently when I realized the official libtheora decoder is significantly more performant than FFmpeg’s Theora decoder. Feb 28 04:48:20 << Feb 28 04:51:39 >> Results: FFmpeg: 22.3s libmad: 24.2s mpg123: 9.5s<< Feb 28 04:52:04 mpg123 -q -s file.mp3 > /dev/null Feb 28 04:54:18 well, 14 months old Feb 28 04:57:54 that's most likely on x86 Feb 28 04:58:03 but yeah, >> As Mans discovered, sometimes FFmpeg’s deficiencies are actually gcc’s fault. However, that blog post was primarily concerned with PowerPC.<< somebody might want to test that for ARM. Nevertheless mpg123 *has* that nice feature list (EQ, gapless playback...) Feb 28 04:58:51 gapless is more of a player feature, not so much of a codec feature :) Feb 28 04:59:02 not really Feb 28 04:59:46 the decoder engine has to know how to switch mp3 encoded input in a gapless way Feb 28 05:00:10 engine != codec Feb 28 05:00:33 hm, yeah Feb 28 05:00:40 sorry, no coffee Feb 28 05:01:31 mpg123 is both anyway, and that's what I like it for Feb 28 05:03:07 When you put libmpg123 in another "engine" or player, there wont necessarily be gapless playback unless the engine+player supports it Feb 28 05:04:04 yeah, but when you put MAFW into any player GUI, there'll be *no* gapless playback no matter what you do Feb 28 05:04:47 not to mention the other points listed in http://mpg123.orgis.org/features.shtml Feb 28 05:08:46 * ShadowJK tested mplayer-maemo5 decode of a random mp3 file just now Feb 28 05:09:10 ffmpeg 25 seconds mp3lib (internal copy of libmpg123) 30 seconds Feb 28 05:09:32 quite decent for the aded functionality Feb 28 05:10:09 the easiest hack for gapless playback with most players+codecs: cat *.mp3 | player - Feb 28 05:10:12 ;p Feb 28 05:10:22 lol Feb 28 05:13:02 meh, my point stands: mafw is clumsy crap, monolithic apps doing eq and whatever else mangeling (dyn compr), and decoding all in one step are per definitionem more versatile and higher optimized than backend frameworks like MAFW Feb 28 05:13:36 sure Feb 28 05:13:56 mafw and gstreamer are best avoided :) Feb 28 05:15:40 don't forget about PA, should become an element of your list of things to avoid - esp XPROT which best is done in HW but also can be done withut 18% CPU punishment in mpg123 for example Feb 28 05:17:24 18% of the cpu is wasted for protection? Feb 28 05:18:27 btw I hope you repeated your tests of mplayer ffmpeg vs mp3lib a several times, to make sure you always got the same cache situation etc Feb 28 05:20:37 yeah Feb 28 05:20:59 disabled sounds output too Feb 28 05:21:42 I'd prefer to compare to mpg123 anyway Feb 28 05:23:11 but honestly I'm not that much interested in performance, way more in feature set and quality Feb 28 05:25:12 hm, new firefox/fennec Feb 28 05:25:16 yeah I know, mp3 and quality in same sentence is kinda paradox. But that's where that mindset to tolerate all kinds of quirks comes from, people don't care about HiFi and *music* any more, the want cheap *sound* Feb 28 05:25:21 * ShadowJK hopes proxy support is back Feb 28 05:26:02 libmad (and its mad123 player) are probably highest quality, iirc it decodes to 20 bits or something Feb 28 05:26:44 won't help when you postprocess that in XPROT and whatnot, not to mention EQ Feb 28 05:29:21 won't help when you postprocess that in XPROT and whatnot, not to mention EQ Feb 28 05:29:23 and a true gapless clickfree playback of Pink Floyd album where one song fades into next, that's still not an original feature of libmad Feb 28 05:30:41 * DocScrutinizer heads out to get some coffee somewhere Feb 28 05:31:11 it's not a codec feature Feb 28 05:31:56 but it's a mpg123 feature Feb 28 05:32:57 For gapless playback either the calling player or the codec itself must be able to truncate the last mp3 frame to correct length. The calling player must not flush,close,open sound output between songs Feb 28 05:33:20 mpg123 the player obviously can do this Feb 28 05:33:43 and mafw never even thought about it Feb 28 05:33:54 right Feb 28 05:34:26 probably not gstreamer either Feb 28 05:34:50 and we don't know if the nokia supplied mp3 decoder can truncate last frame Feb 28 05:53:07 Hello Feb 28 05:56:52 How to increase the size of the partition rootfs in a flashing ? Feb 28 05:57:24 ( I'm french, sorry for my bad english ) Feb 28 06:01:46 rootfs is using all the space available, you can't increase it (it's on 256MB NAND) Feb 28 06:03:49 /opt however is mounted from /home which lives on eMMC in a default 2GV partition that easily can grow, see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Feb 28 06:04:31 2GB* Feb 28 06:07:13 I'm can to increase the size of partition 256 MB ? Feb 28 06:08:11 NAND is a separate flash chip of 256MB size Feb 28 06:08:56 think of it like your boot HDD in your PC. It can't grow Feb 28 06:09:02 Because in the end it was she who flange for installing all my programs. Feb 28 06:09:40 your programs should install to /opt, see Feb 28 06:09:45 ~optification Feb 28 06:09:46 [optification] a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 Feb 28 06:10:53 This is a limitation physic? Omg. Feb 28 06:12:27 It is possible to ignore this chip and copy the contents into the 30Gb disk? Feb 28 06:21:19 OK. Thank you very much. Feb 28 06:23:44 And it is possible to mount the phone via USB root? (And not chroot in the /home/user/MyDocs) Feb 28 06:25:13 Use in mass storage Feb 28 06:28:26 sorry, I was busy with buying and preparing coffee. Can you please rephrase your question Feb 28 06:32:21 (ignore chip) well, not really/completely. The bootloader (caled NOLO, the thing that displays "NOKIA" during boot) will try to mount the rootfilesystem from that 256MB NAND chip, and also will look for kernel there Feb 28 06:32:49 cat /proc/mtd Feb 28 06:33:35 also output of cmd `mount` and `df -h` Feb 28 06:34:42 ubi0:rootfs 228M 159M 66M 71% / Feb 28 06:34:57 /dev/mmcblk0p2 2,0G 575M 1,4G 31% /home Feb 28 06:36:18 you might notice / is only 228MB, the rest is for the other partitions living on that 256MB NAND, as shown by `cat /proc/mtd` Feb 28 06:38:38 anyway no tested app you can install from maemo-extras shall use more than a very few kB in rootfs. Optification (a process usually taken care of on buildhost) shall move all the huge space consuming stuff of any app to /opt Feb 28 06:40:04 can autobuilder be fixed to stop segfaulting on each and every arm binary? Feb 28 06:42:04 admittedly that's a nasty hack, that has been invented to keep seamless software update working, as maemo-PR1.0 didn't have any /opt and of course no decent partitioning that would allow to mount /usr and /var partitions from that 32GB into rootfs. So everything is moved to /home/opt and linked to with symlinks Feb 28 06:42:47 Thank you very much, I'm going forward with all your information. :) Feb 28 06:42:48 I go again here in half a day. Feb 28 06:43:17 you are welcome Feb 28 06:45:57 I think 1.0 had /opt, I think it was the summit 300 that came without /opt, and getting those devices migrated to bigger /home partition was when the emmc flashing arrived Feb 28 06:46:34 umm, not sure about that Feb 28 06:46:40 lcuk should know Feb 28 06:47:22 maybe it had /opt, but no default policy to optify apps Feb 28 06:47:42 we should ask mintux ;-D Feb 28 06:48:24 autobuilder didn't do it automatically, no. That was probably added later as a facepalm response to devs consuming / :P Feb 28 06:48:52 or the "my app is soooo important it has to be in /" that everyone had Feb 28 06:50:29 I wish they had the balls to do a clear cut with 1.1 and iron out the nonsense of having boot relevant stuf in /usr, then actually bindmount /usr and /var from eMMC Feb 28 06:51:06 I wish they'd adopted /usr/maemo or /usr/apps as a PREFIX for all extras apps :p Feb 28 06:51:12 on emmc Feb 28 06:52:09 ls ~user/.config - BLARGH!! Feb 28 06:52:43 and it's not even backed uo by backup utility :) Feb 28 06:52:52 MUHAHA Feb 28 06:53:05 failwhale Feb 28 06:53:46 * DocScrutinizer takes a huge gulp of his coffee Feb 28 06:57:03 sometimes you start to think somebody in Nokia favouring sybian has placed a few moles inside Qt, then forced Qt into maemo/meego as a part of a huge masterplan to make it fail and step back behind sybian Feb 28 06:59:52 honestly, where's the benefit of that nuking down maemo for Qt and then another time for QML, that outweighs the fact Nokia missed to come up with a competitive OS version on a new device, in 2010? Feb 28 07:02:23 and I'm afraid they aren't done yet with maemo, but rather will push a m6-harmattan-meegoHE based on Qt down maemo/N900 community's throat, to kill the whole "ecosystem" for good Feb 28 07:04:41 as in m6 you can bet your ass there'll be so many regressions and bugs in all the ported-to-Qt maemo-core stuff, it'll be mere unusable as a daily phone, and m5 will become obsolete the day m6 rolls out. Mission accomplished, maemo dead Feb 28 07:18:14 SpeedEvil: don't you think we've seen all this before? Feb 28 07:28:00 * DocScrutinizer idly dreams about a reality where there's been no meego-merger and Nokia assigned all manpower to improving/FOSSing maemo, came up with a nifty sleek m6 competitive to andridiot, on a selection of 2 or 3 alternative N9++ devices in 2010, while eventually adopting dalvik-emu to maemo... Feb 28 07:29:33 one single downside: this path wouldn't serve as a hindsight excuse for buying trolltech/Qt, and wouldn't serve as a catalyst for Qt in symbian (which is dead either way) Feb 28 07:29:52 and what's the point of having dalvik-emu again? Feb 28 07:30:13 for the "we want that fart app" fanboys Feb 28 07:30:17 ahh Feb 28 07:30:23 so basically another useless thingy Feb 28 07:30:27 yes Feb 28 07:30:41 as useless as nitdroid Feb 28 07:30:47 but better Feb 28 07:32:05 plus for Nokia it's a living "ecosystem" better than the winP7 crap they got now Feb 28 07:38:49 erm... weird problem: I have two N800s and only one of them is able to see my home network. Any idea about why that could happen? There seems to be no problem at other networks. Feb 28 07:40:10 chan 13, US vs EU WLAN channel regulation Feb 28 07:41:39 I think I'm using channel 6, but you might be on to something... I'll check it when I get home. Feb 28 07:41:43 thanks for the idea. Feb 28 07:53:07 http://wiki.maemo.org/Dialer Feb 28 07:53:16 Figured out some of the interesting stuff in librtcom-dialer-ui Feb 28 07:57:38 jonwil: WOW Feb 28 08:00:49 nice Feb 28 08:04:03 Next up I am going to identify function prototypes for all the functions in librtcom-dialer-ui called by rtcom-dialer-ui Feb 28 08:21:11 btw, the US vs EU channel 13 thing is what wl1251-cal is doing (and possibly why its closed source) Feb 28 08:21:56 yup Feb 28 08:22:44 also all access to CAL seems is covered by policy "always closed" Feb 28 08:24:47 whats us vs eu channel 13 thing? Feb 28 08:25:17 wireless lan rules in different parts of the world Feb 28 08:25:37 i c Feb 28 08:26:30 same thing as FM radio only going up to 108 in some parts of the world, or down to 87... Feb 28 08:26:56 while down to 72(?) in others Feb 28 08:27:14 don't remember the numbers, that's why I didn't give it a shot :D Feb 28 08:27:22 or FMTX maximum power Feb 28 08:27:37 how far does the n900's fm radio go to? Feb 28 08:27:45 see above Feb 28 08:28:08 holla Feb 28 08:28:37 * marainein wonders what secrets lie beyond the 108 mhz region Feb 28 08:28:51 FBI radio Feb 28 08:29:13 military and stuff Feb 28 08:29:16 batman Feb 28 08:29:45 DocScrutinizer: knows Feb 28 08:30:04 anyway why MohammadAG Feb 28 08:30:11 in the US, aviation navigation frequencies Feb 28 08:30:12 want to talk to me Feb 28 08:30:17 actually TV, taxi/other, Police 2m band... Feb 28 08:30:28 aviation as well, yes Feb 28 08:30:52 radio amateur Feb 28 08:31:03 well, aviation frequencies are about 10mhz higher Feb 28 08:31:20 and in between, hmm not much Feb 28 08:31:34 tv is a lot higher Feb 28 08:31:54 TV channel 6 is < 87.9Mhz in the US. Feb 28 08:32:00 but all these rules are fine, why close the source for them? Feb 28 08:32:52 in the software to control the frequencies Feb 28 08:32:56 crashanddie: hmmmm Feb 28 08:33:15 u know to much about US military for the french guy Feb 28 08:33:34 Turtle^^: close source of what Feb 28 08:34:50 ZogG, well, a/ I'm not french, b/ this is just general knowledge, has nothing to do with military Feb 28 08:37:37 jacekowski, it was being discussed up there some code that is closed source due to us vs eu rules Feb 28 08:37:50 that's not at all what I saw. Feb 28 08:38:16 http://cgi.ebay.de/Allband-Funk-Empfaenger-Flug-Feuerw-Polizei-Schiff-Taxi-/330515544919 Feb 28 08:38:18 [09:22:17] also all access to CAL seems is covered by policy "always closed" Feb 28 08:38:18 [09:24:20] whats us vs eu channel 13 thing? Feb 28 08:38:18 [09:24:50] wireless lan rules in different parts of the world Feb 28 08:40:11 well, wireless driver isn't closed Feb 28 08:40:48 the firmware is Feb 28 08:40:57 and iirc there was some code that detected where you are and based on that enabled disabled channels Feb 28 08:41:06 but i'm not sure where it got location info Feb 28 08:41:17 the country you gave it during setup Feb 28 08:42:07 Is it supposed to forgett the date every time I remove the battery? Feb 28 08:42:13 No Feb 28 08:42:20 only if your internal safety battery is dead Feb 28 08:42:24 (usually after a year or so) Feb 28 08:42:46 Bougth it as a display model... Feb 28 08:42:55 this may be a retarded question, but can i install packages from the fremantle sdk (the ones used by scratchbox) onto my n900? Feb 28 08:43:24 DocScrutinizer: It does look ratehr familiar, yes. Feb 28 08:43:44 lolcat: the internal battery seems to hold date and time only for a minute or so Feb 28 08:44:52 marainein: O_o Feb 28 08:46:09 i want libc6-dev, because ruby-dev depends upon it, but libc6-dev it isn't in the extras repository Feb 28 08:46:41 marainein, sure, but try to ensure you only install a specific package Feb 28 08:46:58 marainein, don't go around doing a "apt-get update / apt-get upgrade" or something silly like that Feb 28 08:47:15 download && dpkg -i ? Feb 28 08:47:27 anyway what object of qt creator should be used for text changed by app, for example the name of song of widget? label? Feb 28 08:47:55 marainein, no, I meant "don't go upgrading all the packages in your N900 using those provided in the SDK repo" Feb 28 08:48:17 marainein, if you can just wget/dpkg, go for it, if there are dependencies, try to be cautious... Feb 28 08:48:24 FYI (*all* frequencies :-D) http://mitglied.multimania.de/bauersebi/BOS-Funk/Funkdienste/Bandplan2GHz.htm Feb 28 08:48:34 crashanddie, ok, i'll see what happens Feb 28 08:48:49 DocScrutinizer, http://xkcd.com/273/ Feb 28 08:48:57 khertan: mon ami Feb 28 08:50:15 chem|st: It was out only for 20-30 seconds while I replaced the sim. Feb 28 09:12:47 crashanddie: nice Feb 28 09:16:08 aviation++ http://mitglied.multimania.de/bauersebi/BOS-Funk/Funkdienste/Flugfunk.htm Feb 28 09:16:31 (MIR probably isn't exactly aviation) Feb 28 09:16:40 This dialer work is hard Feb 28 09:16:57 I dont think I will ever be able to figure out enough information to let one build a dialer replacement Feb 28 09:18:57 jonwil: I would not hestitate to bet on you. That work on the recent wikipage is awesome Feb 28 09:20:14 jonwil: we got working FOSS dialer implementations (though not on maemo yet) to compare what's needed. This will facilitate to figure what those calls are for Feb 28 09:22:10 it's skype and SIP integration that complicates things quite a bit Feb 28 09:22:37 If all you want to do is to make a GSM phonecall thats possible Feb 28 09:23:12 SIP? Feb 28 09:23:25 yeah, even from commandline ;-D echo ATD55512345 | pnatd Feb 28 09:23:25 Does skype use a lot of bandwith? Feb 28 09:23:28 sip is a VoIP protocol Feb 28 09:23:32 ahh Feb 28 09:25:25 Thanks to my work, we now know how to send DTMF tones Feb 28 09:25:57 IMO the dialer is probably the most complex piece of software on the N900 Feb 28 09:26:57 http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control <-- has a lot of dbus stuff Feb 28 09:27:02 my attempt to get ruby-dev installed by installing libc6-dev eventually did work. i can now use gem to install ruby gems Feb 28 09:27:04 yep I saw that Feb 28 09:27:11 quite possibly it actually is, yes Feb 28 09:28:50 while it looks so simple, on fist glance. Really not too bad an implementation, if only a few quirks weren't there, or - even better - it'd be FOSS Feb 28 09:29:52 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Ofono <-- this of course is a tad dated... Feb 28 09:30:00 or at very least had a comprehensive set of hooks and a decent API doc Feb 28 09:30:53 s/hooks/hooks & plugin interface/. Feb 28 09:32:34 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/28/german_data_regulators_want_to_tighten_ip_laws/ <-- interesting Feb 28 09:33:06 even barisione which I consider one of the most knowledgeable and talented developers on maemo, had to do nasty hacks to *somehow* implement per-contact-ringtones Feb 28 09:38:48 Is the N900 capable of FM tramsmitting to the 800mhz range? Feb 28 09:40:54 no Feb 28 09:41:06 The FM tranmitter is hardware limited Feb 28 09:41:38 SpeedEvil: eh? Feb 28 09:46:43 ruskie: yeah, our data privacy and security authorities aren't that bad. Alas they are rather teethless Feb 28 09:46:59 DocScrutinizer: eh? ? Feb 28 09:47:10 [2011-02-28 10:40:38] The FM tranmitter is hardware limited Feb 28 09:47:28 Err Feb 28 09:47:29 relates to? Feb 28 09:47:34 * SpeedEvil misread (09:38:21 AM) lolcat: Is the N900 capable of FM tramsmitting to the 800mhz range? Feb 28 09:47:42 The antenna probably wouldn't have enough gain to to xmit to the 800Mhz range Feb 28 09:47:58 So yeah, I'm with SpeedEvil on this one, hardware limited. Feb 28 09:48:16 aah, that's why I missed it :-D Feb 28 09:48:56 ignorelists are nice but sometimes equally annoying to the cause they're supposed to cure Feb 28 09:48:57 Oh - no, I diddn'tr misread it Feb 28 09:49:08 crashanddie: It may actually have more gain Feb 28 09:49:18 hmm? Feb 28 09:49:23 But the chip won't do it. Feb 28 09:49:40 FMTX chip can't go 800 Feb 28 09:49:59 crashanddie: The tx antenna is horribly limited due to the length being a tiny fraction of the wavelength. Feb 28 09:50:18 btw who wants 800MHz, wtf is there that could use FM? Feb 28 09:51:04 maybe stereo FM with RDS X-P Feb 28 09:51:54 DocScrutinizer: I have a remote headset that does ~853 I think Feb 28 10:00:22 * DocScrutinizer ponders idly about friggin TV remotes still use that clumsy IR so you need to point to the TV set, while smartphones never adopted 433/866 and went straight to BT. The huge class of X10 alike remote controls is a complete commercial fail, and I wonder why Feb 28 10:00:57 It's a patchwork. Feb 28 10:01:08 You can't - generally - take any device and make it work with any other. Feb 28 10:01:26 you can't do that with CIR either Feb 28 10:01:44 I'd just go for a ceiling mounted IR-blaster that is then IP connected :) Feb 28 10:01:50 ruskie: hey Feb 28 10:01:51 legacy integration Feb 28 10:02:02 dm8tbr: ack, still a botch Feb 28 10:02:36 ruskie: i have a request for you Feb 28 10:02:37 ZogG_w, looking for me? Feb 28 10:02:49 things are increasingly IP connected, so that's the way to go IMHO Feb 28 10:02:53 of course there are custom RCs on 433 that have a RX station to convert to CIR Feb 28 10:02:55 upnp and all Feb 28 10:03:02 haha Feb 28 10:03:06 upnp is still a joke sadly Feb 28 10:03:10 I know Feb 28 10:03:20 ruskie: can you please upload xmms2 and all relevant stuff from your repo to extras? Feb 28 10:03:23 just tossing some buzz-words :) Feb 28 10:03:23 I'm kinda bored by all the electric-enabled stuff Feb 28 10:03:35 and IP aware RCs are rare, damn rare :-P Feb 28 10:03:39 I've been trying to buy a proper salt and pepper mill, but you can only get electric ones Feb 28 10:03:54 ZogG_w, not likely to happen since I don't really like extras as such Feb 28 10:03:55 DocScrutinizer: I think that's called a tablet :) Feb 28 10:03:57 crashanddie: lol Feb 28 10:04:08 who the fuck wants an electric pepper mill? Feb 28 10:04:22 Are people really so fucking lazy they won't turn a knob anymore? Feb 28 10:04:33 crashanddie, people without a pestle and mortar ;) Feb 28 10:04:49 dm8tbr: I do not want a frigging tablet, which urges me to look at a screen full of softkeys, to control chan/vol of my TV and home stereo Feb 28 10:04:52 crashanddie: Mine is not electric Feb 28 10:04:57 crashanddie: is that retorhorical? Feb 28 10:05:10 alterego, heh Feb 28 10:05:19 lolcat, congrats Feb 28 10:05:26 DocScrutinizer: then you are not the target demography, stick to your legacy IR remote ;-p Feb 28 10:05:42 wow, that was bad spelling, forgive me I've just woken up ;) Feb 28 10:05:42 DocScrutinizer, I bought an iPod touch Feb 28 10:06:04 DocScrutinizer, and an airport express, so that any computer in the house can stream music to the sound system Feb 28 10:06:17 NO!! I want a proper 'legacy" RC with decent rubberbuttons, that doesn't need pointing to TV Feb 28 10:06:18 and the iPod touch to control the macbook / iTunes Feb 28 10:06:52 I'm getting this thing: http://www.teufelaudio.com/audio-streaming/1raumfeld-c.html Feb 28 10:07:06 crashanddie: Some have physical difficulties with ordinary pepper mills. Feb 28 10:07:18 SpeedEvil, oh come on Feb 28 10:07:24 crashanddie: Also - profit margin on electric ones is better. Also - ebay. Feb 28 10:07:42 hell, even my car and flat doorlock works with a dongle keypress that doesn't require any pointing. 866MHz Feb 28 10:07:48 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOX-12-NEW-SEALED-WOODEN-PEPPER-MILLS-/120688209042?pt=UK_Kitchen_Accessories&hash=item1c1993ec92 Feb 28 10:08:49 crashanddie, http://www.silit.com/diavolo-stainless-steel_1097/spice-mill-diavolo-st-steel-unfilled_3882.html Feb 28 10:08:51 ruskie: why don't you? it's just as i said i work on some client/widget for xmms2 and it would be not nice to release it without xmms2 itself Feb 28 10:09:12 ruskie, I don't see a price Feb 28 10:09:21 ZogG_w, because I don't like optification and is the main reason I never submited anything to it... Feb 28 10:09:32 crashanddie: you don't want to see that ;-D Feb 28 10:09:54 crashanddie, http://www.silit.de/gewuerzmuehle-salz-u-pfeffermuehle/muehlen-befuellt_1349.html Feb 28 10:10:08 ruskie: but u do have optified stuff Feb 28 10:10:11 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cole-Mason-King-Pepper-mill-grinder-wooden-baseball-bat-/180629820000?pt=UK_Kitchen_Accessories&hash=item2a0e605260 Feb 28 10:10:15 duh, thought you meant the teufelaudio Feb 28 10:10:25 ZogG_w, only due to the borkedness of the solution sadly :( Feb 28 10:10:40 ruskie: as well as you understand why we do optify, but u can upload not opt Feb 28 10:10:58 lol SpeedEvil Feb 28 10:11:25 ruskie: anyway if u will bored this week i would love you more if you up already optified package of xmms2 Feb 28 10:11:47 SpeedEvil, I kinda like this one: http://www.amazon.fr/dp/B002EL4T4Q/ref=asc_df_B002EL4T4Q2161501?smid=A1X6FK5RDHNB96&tag=kelkoo_delta_kitchen-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22782&creativeASIN=B002EL4T4Q Feb 28 10:11:58 hmm I should start looking into getting the latest xmms2 setup... that I might be willing to submit to extras Feb 28 10:13:43 ruskie: hmm i just looked thru your repo, you are mad man, you have so many tasty things and they are optified but u do not want to share =( Feb 28 10:13:44 DocScrutinizer, something wrong with the teufelaudio stuff? Feb 28 10:13:44 I mean, seriously, electric salt and pepper grinders, WITH A FUCKING CHARGING BASE STATION http://www.amazon.fr/Domo-Do-313Pzdomo-Moulins-%C3%89lectriques-Rechargeables/dp/B002BA58S6/ref=sr_1_4?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1298887958&sr=1-4 Feb 28 10:13:58 ruskie: friggin expensive? Feb 28 10:14:00 ZogG_w, I share.. people are free to add my repos Feb 28 10:14:04 DocScrutinizer, actually cheap Feb 28 10:14:08 ruskie, expensivvvvvvvve Feb 28 10:14:09 DocScrutinizer, see linn.co.uk ;) Feb 28 10:14:21 ruskie, and quality not as good as you could expect from a self-branded designer Feb 28 10:14:22 B&O Feb 28 10:14:28 DocScrutinizer++ Feb 28 10:14:28 ruskie: but if everyone would make separete repo for everything it would be madness and not sparta Feb 28 10:14:39 except that B&O is basically Philips hardware with a very nice design Feb 28 10:14:55 ZogG_w, I don't believe in a centralised distro setup Feb 28 10:15:18 ruskie, we spent *months* trying to get all the bloody repos out of the wild Feb 28 10:15:21 And we managed Feb 28 10:15:22 crashanddie, I doubt it... since technically linn and all the other highend ones are the same ;) Feb 28 10:15:49 Trust me, we've all gotten quite experienced at the mind games required to get people to remove their repos :P Feb 28 10:16:07 the only one we've tolerated was... khertan Feb 28 10:16:15 Mind, it'd be nice if we had a couple mirrors of the current one... I remember what happened when it went down :\ Feb 28 10:16:34 ruskie: that's why we have extra, extra-dev ,extra-testing and other repos and community, you can talk to MohammadAG and maybe submit some stuff to community or something, as i saw some fixed or newer things u have Feb 28 10:16:59 cssu doesn't want stuff outside of core Feb 28 10:17:12 unless it requires changes to core Feb 28 10:17:23 and I can respect that Feb 28 10:17:29 crashanddie: khertan does have his repo too? Feb 28 10:17:36 yeah Feb 28 10:17:50 as for mind games feel free to try... Feb 28 10:18:04 ruskie: but u have patched modest wich is in cssu and curl and other system usefull things Feb 28 10:18:16 I don't give a crap... I made the packages I did for myself and merley offered them to people that might be interested... Feb 28 10:18:26 crashanddie: but he uses extras as well Feb 28 10:18:38 yes Feb 28 10:18:59 so let him use his repo as all i need in extras anyway Feb 28 10:19:29 ruskie: but u do like to have good and tasty apps and new stuff right? Feb 28 10:19:41 also I don't plan on maintaining anything I submit to extras Feb 28 10:19:55 think if MohammadAG and cssu team would make update but wouldn't make it public Feb 28 10:20:16 ruskie: u don't have, it's better old app than no app at all =) Feb 28 10:20:29 actually iirc extras stuff needs to be maintained... Feb 28 10:20:38 by maintained I mean I wouldn't even bother with bugfixing Feb 28 10:20:40 ruskie: so if u once in 3 months update it u can just up it that's all Feb 28 10:20:54 I haven't actually updated the xmms2 packages since I created them Feb 28 10:21:23 anyway off to get some food Feb 28 10:21:29 ruskie: u see i found you something more interesting than chating here, xmms2 update and upload it to extras Feb 28 10:21:41 ruskie: no wokr is done — no food Feb 28 10:21:55 ruskie, I've got a relatively inexpensive setup, maybe 500 quid for the lot? Tannoy R3 Revolution, Cambridge Audio pre-amp and power-amp, a NAD C545 for CDs, and then streaming for everything that's on the computer... Works brilliantly Feb 28 10:22:15 sudo update xmms2 && sudo upload --extras Feb 28 10:26:33 ZogG_w: Is zmms2 bether than fmms? Feb 28 10:27:27 xmms2* Feb 28 10:29:08 lolcat: what? xmms2 is not for mms Feb 28 10:29:23 Ahh Feb 28 10:29:28 Then I guess it isn't... Feb 28 10:29:53 meh Feb 28 10:30:03 gonna add ruskie repo Feb 28 10:32:47 ruskie has her own repo? Feb 28 10:34:05 hmm, didn't like Tannoy back in 1985. Dunno what they sound like nowadays Feb 28 10:38:49 DocScrutinizer, Well, I got them for a bargain, so I can't complain Feb 28 10:39:34 DocScrutinizer, they're a bit bass heavy if you don't tune your amp, and dual-wired (so you do need a power amp and cables that can handle them) Feb 28 10:39:59 crashanddie, I just need something to plug into the existing hi-fi... and it needs to be self hosting... i.e. no external pcs or something to stream to... so this raumfeld is good... I could go for a philips np2500 for ~140 eur to do more or less the same things(one of the things is usb ... Feb 28 10:40:04 Also, I filled mine with sand, so they anchor properly into the ground, however I'm lucky to be on ground floor Feb 28 10:40:04 ... connection with native flac support)... Feb 28 10:40:11 but that raumfeld is imho nicer than a philips thing Feb 28 10:40:20 lolcat, has his own repo... yes Feb 28 10:40:26 is hostmode-easy-now the way to get usb otg for n900? Feb 28 10:40:40 lolcat, wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie Feb 28 10:40:49 ruskie: I thougth ruskie was a girlsname, sorry Feb 28 10:41:07 visz: no. Feb 28 10:41:09 lolcat, a girl in #maemo? Feb 28 10:41:16 visz: The n900 cannot do OTG Feb 28 10:41:25 ruskie, oh definitely, go for it if you like it, just be aware that you might get stuck in vendor lock-in... Feb 28 10:41:28 lolcat, actually it means russian in a few languages... and no I'm not... Feb 28 10:41:30 crashanddie: well, what you call bass heavy is what I call missing transparency and locatability of treble Feb 28 10:41:30 mm really? Feb 28 10:41:46 i thought that was resolved ages ago Feb 28 10:41:48 crashanddie, it actually supports upnp so no real locking Feb 28 10:41:59 UPnP doesn't take care of codecs ;) Feb 28 10:42:03 crashanddie, and they are actually working on brining full upnp to all their streaming devices Feb 28 10:42:09 visz: It is incapable of doing OTG in hardware. Tehre are missing components. This is completely seperate to USB hostmode. Feb 28 10:42:09 ruskie: A girl I knew had a dog that I assumed was female that was named ruskie... She liked to go to russia and looked a bit russian... Feb 28 10:42:10 crashanddie, it supports flac and ogg ;) Feb 28 10:42:12 or is usb otg and usb host mode different? Feb 28 10:42:15 ah Feb 28 10:42:54 crashanddie, it's enough for my needs... 99% of my music is either flac or ogg... the few mp3s I have I don't actually worry about being able to play since they tend to play on everything Feb 28 10:43:05 aye Feb 28 10:43:13 most of my music is also ripped from cds I actually own... Feb 28 10:43:27 most of my music is streamed from Spotify :) Feb 28 10:43:39 ahh vendor lockin ;) Feb 28 10:43:42 crashanddie: But how do you do offline mode? Feb 28 10:43:53 lolcat, eh? Feb 28 10:44:01 SpeedEvil: please repeat your metaphor about how hostmode relates to OTG :-D Feb 28 10:44:13 ruskie, good point :D Feb 28 10:44:15 crashanddie: On the N900. If you need internet somewhere else Feb 28 10:44:29 dude, the n900 is shit, I'm just in this channel for the people and conversations Feb 28 10:44:33 I don't use the N900 anymore Feb 28 10:44:46 hehe Feb 28 10:45:09 * lolcat N900es crashanddie (like stoning, except you throw N900'eds) Feb 28 10:45:34 well, with all the bricked devices out there, that might not be inappropriate... Feb 28 10:46:06 visz: OTG is mostly a marketing term, you usually want hostmode, not OTG Feb 28 10:46:18 crashanddie, really bricked where??? Feb 28 10:46:23 right on Feb 28 10:46:42 got some new phones to the office today Feb 28 10:46:57 e7 ships with usb-host mode cable so i'm testing it out Feb 28 10:47:41 "Newsflash, Nokia CEO Stephen Elop has been found drowned in one of Finland's main rivers, in what appears to be a terror act from disgruntled customers. He had been tied with USB cables and put in a bag, weighted down by what can only be described by hundreds of Nokia phones (N900, N810, N800 and N770)." Feb 28 10:47:51 ("N770" written with an N on purpose) Feb 28 10:47:54 visz: if that cable actually fits to N900, then you can use it with h-e-n Feb 28 10:48:21 if i get hen up and running that is Feb 28 10:49:23