**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 01 02:59:57 2011 Mar 01 03:03:15 SpacedOut: if the kernel wasn't installed right in the first place, all the modules might not be there and as such it wouldn't be happy at least Mar 01 03:04:33 * jonwil wishes he could find some example code for a Telepathy Approver thats specific to the maemo version of telepathy (which is about a dozen versions behind mainline) Mar 01 03:04:53 Agree, but I installed the power kernel, and neither that or the pr1.3 kernel will -l load and -b boot with the flasher. Mar 01 03:05:54 If that's expected and flashing to the device to boot should work, I might try that, but I would really prefer to not flash a testing kernel and risk having to flash everything. Mar 01 03:24:14 * jonwil doesn't think he will ever find the point at which Telepathy tells rtcom-call-ui that there is an incoming call Mar 01 03:28:47 Talking about calls, why is it that the call duration isn't recorded? I would like to make use of that information. Mar 01 03:29:43 I'm not sure if they aren't recorded, but maybe there's no GUI/app to show you that info Mar 01 03:30:33 Well the /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db sqlite file has fields for it, but all the voice calls have the end time set to 0. Mar 01 03:33:11 jonwil, and why do you want to know that? Mar 01 03:33:26 for my dialer reverse engineering work Mar 01 03:34:03 do you want to know what calls rtcom-call-ui? I think it's telepathy-ring Mar 01 03:38:28 aha, I think its not rtcom-call-ui OR librtcom-call-ui thats registering with telepathy as the telepathy Approver Mar 01 03:38:34 I think its rtcom-notification-ui Mar 01 03:38:50 thats actually saying "yes I want the call" or "no I dont" Mar 01 03:52:29 * pupnik hopes jonwil has good success Mar 01 03:52:46 SpacedOut: call duration and summaries would be nice Mar 01 03:53:14 * jonwil thinks making a feature-complete dialer or notification replacement is never going to happen Mar 01 03:55:26 both apps are doing far too much funky stuff Mar 01 03:57:05 There is bug 11781 Mar 01 03:57:07 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11781 consider opening rtcom-notification-ui Mar 01 03:57:18 but I cant see that going forward Mar 01 04:01:55 * jonwil wonders if adding bug 11781, bug 11780 and a matching one for rtcom-call-ui to http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant would be worth doing... :P Mar 01 04:01:56 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11780 consider opening rtcom-messaging-ui Mar 01 04:05:06 in any case its clear that I am never going to be able to reverse engineer enough of the dialer, notification etc for a feature-complete replacement to be able to be written Mar 01 04:05:52 what are you doing to reverse engineering? Mar 01 04:06:12 I assume you're using IDA and disassembling the ARM binaries Mar 01 04:06:15 yes Mar 01 04:06:17 I am Mar 01 04:06:18 why? Mar 01 04:06:25 just wondering Mar 01 04:06:38 * jonwil wishes he could afford the newest version of IDA with that sweet sweet ARM decompiler Mar 01 04:07:15 it will suck =) Mar 01 04:07:46 what will suck? Mar 01 04:08:58 the arm decompiler, I remember promises of it since palmos days (but back then ida wasn't even able to properly detect a palmos5 syscall...) Mar 01 04:09:32 yeah but we had a .txt file to know what call was which one Mar 01 04:09:53 even guessing the number of parameters is hard... Mar 01 04:10:42 Sc0rpius: I didn't mean palmos4 traps, though. Mar 01 04:12:19 jonwil: erm, you realize telepathy is documented openly, right? Mar 01 04:12:25 yes I realize that Mar 01 04:12:30 but the doucmentation is a nightmare Mar 01 04:12:49 http://wiki.maemo.org/Dialer is as far as I am likely to get with my dialer work Mar 01 04:17:03 plus in any case the telepathy stuff is only part of a much larger jigsaw puzzle Mar 01 04:20:30 basically unless hell freezes over and Nokia decides to open source rtcom-notification-ui, rtcom-call-ui and rtcom-messaging-ui, all the features people want like call filtering are not going to happen Mar 01 04:21:02 jonwil: why? Mar 01 04:21:06 ofono can't do it? Mar 01 04:21:16 ofono-on-maemo is not an option Mar 01 04:21:39 * Sc0rpius reads again the channel's name.. #maemo or #meego ? Mar 01 04:21:48 because too many bits of maemo are tied to the current stack Mar 01 04:22:30 plus any dialer that people would actually USE needs to be feature complete vis a vis the nokia dialer Mar 01 04:22:59 jonwil: Maemo is dead. Mar 01 04:23:08 I think I've read a python script around to block calls on Maemo Mar 01 04:23:20 Maemo is dead = fact Mar 01 04:23:24 but Meego is also dead Mar 01 04:23:28 and Maemo works, Meego doesn't Mar 01 04:23:30 Gentoo is alive. :D Mar 01 04:23:44 argh, Gentoo. Mar 01 04:23:46 /etc/init.d/net.gprs0 start Mar 01 04:23:47 :D Mar 01 04:23:54 why, oh why they don't get rid of the .la files already? Mar 01 04:24:36 ok why if there is a blocking calls application people can't have call filtering? Mar 01 04:24:55 I saw a python scripts that registers to /com/nokia/csd/call/Coming signal Mar 01 04:25:06 and it block calls from numbers from a .txt file Mar 01 04:25:21 Sc0rpius: so if you decide to block, what do you next. Start killing random PIDs? Mar 01 04:25:26 you don't need to hack half Maemo for that Mar 01 04:25:37 and see if it prevents ringing, ui showing, etc. Mar 01 04:25:54 I never tried the script Mar 01 04:26:18 http://myportableworld.com/posts/block-unwanted-calls-on-your-n900 Mar 01 04:26:44 seemingly, they just drop the call =) Mar 01 04:27:02 more complicated would be implementing selective muting/ignore call list Mar 01 04:27:36 another one: http://maemo.org/packages/view/catblock/ Mar 01 04:33:22 I do know of one feature request someone had that is only possible by changing the dialer, someone wanted the ability to e.g. switch the call to a VoIP number based on certain criteria Mar 01 04:33:37 I think it was MohammadAG or DocScrutinizer who wanted that Mar 01 04:35:10 MohammadAG wants to change the UI so it includes a scroll bar to "swipe to answer" Mar 01 04:37:08 In any case there ARE use cases out there for features that can only be implemented by changing the dialer, messaging and notification UI. But its unlikely that anyone will ever be able to come up with a feature-complete replacement for any of those 3 Mar 01 04:37:18 Or that Nokia will release their source code Mar 01 04:37:30 yup Mar 01 04:37:38 will never happen Mar 01 04:38:02 the requests on http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant are more likely to happen though IMO Mar 01 04:39:20 Anyone know what part of the world Jaffa is in or what time he is usually around? Mar 01 04:40:25 he's around in european central time mornings, usually. Mar 01 04:41:59 is that GMT+2?> Mar 01 04:49:01 yep Mar 01 04:57:28 hmmm, I have a quote from Quim Gill "This week I plan to discuss with Mika Leppinen what to do with the Maemo 5 licensing change requests. I will update here as soon as I know something." on bug 11128 Mar 01 04:57:29 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11128 Opening the source for Sharing services framework Mar 01 04:57:51 Dont know who Mika Leppinen is though Mar 01 04:58:03 but it sounds something vaguely resembling promising :P Mar 01 04:58:27 and who's QUim Gill Mar 01 04:59:08 "open source advocate @ Maemo Devices" Mar 01 04:59:17 "Hi! I work in the Maemo SW team advocating for open source. In practice this means I'm responsible of promoting peace, love and intelligence at maemo.org + all our relationships with free software projects and the community in general." Mar 01 04:59:26 thats from his maemo.org profile Mar 01 04:59:27 oh Mar 01 04:59:33 poor guy, then he will be fired in any moment now Mar 01 04:59:42 Sc0rpius: qgil Mar 01 04:59:51 yeah I got it Mar 01 05:00:11 I wonder if all those Maemo/Meego guys working @ Nokia are scared Mar 01 05:00:18 'cos I would definitely be Mar 01 05:00:51 well, some of them are here ... search logs ... Mar 01 05:02:57 I should hit the bed Mar 01 06:03:16 can anyone get soundcloud.com to work on their n900? Mar 01 06:16:00 so. why autobuilder segfaults? :) Mar 01 06:52:49 how do you guys take less blurry photos with the n900? Mar 01 06:55:46 * dm8tbr waits for autofocus to kick in and makes sure the glass in front ot the lense is clean Mar 01 07:43:33 good morning Mar 01 07:59:16 * jonwil wishes there was a way to obtain .debs/changelogs of packages only found in SSU and not in SDK Mar 01 07:59:47 technically you can Mar 01 08:00:34 how? Mar 01 08:00:48 unpack the deb Mar 01 08:00:58 but how do I get the .deb for such a package Mar 01 08:01:04 e.g. how would I get rtcom-call-ui deb Mar 01 08:01:17 its only in the SSU repos Mar 01 08:01:24 apt-get -d --reinstall install rtcom-call-ui Mar 01 08:01:35 scp it from /var/cache/apt/archives Mar 01 08:01:42 great Mar 01 08:02:30 thanks Mar 01 08:02:32 just what I needed Mar 01 08:02:44 yw :) Mar 01 08:18:04 morning guys Mar 01 08:18:29 someone confident with painting custom QWidget on maemo? Mar 01 08:29:09 KevinB, depends ... what are you trying to achieve ? Mar 01 08:29:57 I just tried to paint dots inside the Widget Rectangle Mar 01 08:30:34 and use a setMask(triangle) not to see the dots outside the triangle Mar 01 08:31:06 on Desktop no problem but on maemo -> painted stuff outside triaangle is still visible Mar 01 08:32:41 actually I dont need that widget for now so it is ok, just I'd like to understand Mar 01 08:32:49 May b a bug right Mar 01 08:37:35 KevinB, probably a stylesheet for Maemo5 style Mar 01 08:38:10 you de mean there' s some default stylesheet on maemo? gross Mar 01 08:39:33 Maemo uses a theme engine Mar 01 08:39:43 QMaemo5Style, it's more than a stylesheet Mar 01 08:40:53 hoo I see it is a QStyle Mar 01 08:41:08 then I know where to look at now :) thanks Mar 01 09:05:17 hmmm, interesting, Nokia documented the HAL interface to hald-addon-bme in the readme file of the hald-addon-bme package Mar 01 09:08:13 nice, Nokia documented the DBUS interface for GPRS in csd-gprs package Mar 01 09:10:15 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> quick question if anyone knows the answer. Is there a maximize/fullscreen toggle that will force a java application fullscreen? The normal maximise keystroke used by easydebian has no effect. Mar 01 09:11:45 DocScrutinizer, HildonPannableArea is based on "MokoFingerScroll from libmokoui OpenMoko Application Framework UI library" Mar 01 09:19:48 any ideas how to run oss (as in sound) applications on maemo, such as flite? Mar 01 09:21:02 i guess you'd need padsp Mar 01 09:21:26 it's available but doesn't work Mar 01 09:21:49 shouldn't alsa take care of that? Mar 01 09:21:55 setting alsa to redirect to pa Mar 01 09:22:04 and having alsa oss modules loaded to provide /dev/dsp Mar 01 09:24:40 i can't find anything relevant on google Mar 01 09:44:30 Jaffa: ping Mar 01 09:46:26 Are the qt4.7.1 libraries out for maemo ? Mar 01 09:47:42 there are Qt 4.8 libs afaik Mar 01 09:47:51 so you might find 4.7.1, or just go with 8 Mar 01 09:51:06 Morning, all Mar 01 09:51:08 jonwil: pong Mar 01 09:51:19 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> mornin' Mar 01 09:52:45 Jaffa: Quim Gil posted on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11128 with an interesting statement "This week I plan to discuss with Mika Leppinen what to do with the Maemo 5 licensing change requests. I will update here as soon as I know something." Mar 01 09:52:47 Bug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework Mar 01 09:53:28 jonwil: Yes, that's cos of the poke :-) Mar 01 09:53:37 No idea who mika leppinen is Mar 01 09:53:48 Me neither. Mar 01 09:54:18 Probably not http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mika-leppinen/4/912/104: "chief executive at Finnish Veterinary Association" Mar 01 09:54:19 jonwil: Interesting! Mar 01 09:54:32 Or which requests are going to be invesitgated Mar 01 09:54:38 Jaffa: I'm guessing he is. Mar 01 09:54:47 Jaffa: He's responsible for releasing the hounds. Mar 01 09:55:05 Jaffa, Sc0rpius's modest has an option to use the default UI or tree view ;) Mar 01 09:55:08 jonwil: qgil got the link and I explained the content. He's going to discuss all of those in light of stuff Mar 01 09:55:23 MohammadAG: Cool; and where does that option go? Have we solved the translations problem? Mar 01 09:55:42 well he posted on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11128 even though that issue wasnt covered on the wiki link Mar 01 09:55:44 Bug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework Mar 01 09:55:45 Jaffa, Settings, he has that in mind it seems, since it's a translation string, not an english one Mar 01 09:55:59 MohammadAG: Cos a missing translation could be all that's preventing https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11832 being made Mar 01 09:56:01 Bug 11832: Offline IMAP support Mar 01 09:56:03 "mcenfioptionstreeview" is not english :p Mar 01 09:56:23 jonwil: True. Well, a complete review in light of the work you & DocScrutinizer51 did isn't a bad thing Mar 01 09:56:25 though that should be mcen_fi_options_treeview Mar 01 09:56:26 MohammadAG: :-) Mar 01 09:56:53 Jaffa, he's reversing the translations and making them into packages I think Mar 01 09:57:15 http://research.nokia.com/biblio?search=Mika+Leppinen Mar 01 09:57:56 Jaffa, http://gitorious.org/modest-l10n Mar 01 09:58:05 MohammadAG: Cool Mar 01 09:58:19 http://www.flickr.com/photos/bertogg/2870834134/ Mar 01 09:58:44 MohammadAG: neat! Now if I only used email on n900. Mar 01 09:58:58 MohammadAG: Does modest do nntp? Mar 01 09:59:06 SpeedEvil, Sc0rpius is making it an enjoyable experience tbh Mar 01 09:59:13 SpeedEvil, what's nntp? :) Mar 01 09:59:19 In addition to the 8 or so items on the wiki page, I did some further bugzilla spelunking and found another 11 or so that are unresolved (either positive or negative) Mar 01 09:59:26 Network News Transfer Protocol. Mar 01 09:59:29 AKA usenet. Mar 01 09:59:29 MohammadAG: Network News Transfer Protocol Mar 01 09:59:41 The only one I found that isnt under "license change requests" is bug 3836 Mar 01 09:59:42 oh, not sure Mar 01 09:59:43 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/3836 Move MicroB to an open development process Mar 01 09:59:57 It's like forums, but better. :( Mar 01 10:01:06 MohammadAG: SpeedEvil: It does not. Mar 01 10:01:15 k, thanks. Mar 01 10:01:15 I'm not sure Modest's UI is suited to Usenet Mar 01 10:01:19 * jonwil hopes for positive resolution of 11780, 11781 and 11953 Mar 01 10:01:30 !bug 11780 Mar 01 10:01:32 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11780 consider opening rtcom-messaging-ui Mar 01 10:01:55 didn't qgil said they're looking at requests again? Mar 01 10:01:59 say* Mar 01 10:02:13 MohammadAG: Yes. Mar 01 10:02:19 This conversation is looping ;-) Mar 01 10:02:29 :D Mar 01 10:02:30 didn't qgil said they're looking at requests again? Mar 01 10:02:40 :) Mar 01 10:02:41 now correct the typo khertan_ Mar 01 10:03:26 QGil n'a pas parler de regarder encore aux requetes ? Mar 01 10:03:44 MohammadAG, ^ this is one correct syntax Mar 01 10:04:02 the unanswered question is whether the reasons previously used to deny a release are still going to be used as a reason to deny a release Mar 01 10:06:26 Jaffa, do you have a link handy to Gitorious's ssh keys page? Mar 01 10:06:36 I can't access my dashboard for some reason Mar 01 10:06:50 hello Mar 01 10:07:00 !list Mar 01 10:09:13 bah, maemo wiki is down Mar 01 10:09:15 or not working for me Mar 01 10:09:19 now it works Mar 01 10:16:14 MohammadAG: http://gitorious.org/~jaffa/keys Mar 01 10:16:38 Jaffa, thanks Mar 01 10:23:35 Nokia Qt SDK is updated today. /me expects trojan horses from Elop. Mar 01 10:24:10 :D Mar 01 10:24:23 Now including dh-duh-duh, wp7 support and msvs .net express! Mar 01 10:25:32 * jonwil suspects that the new QT SDK is going to remove those cellmodem headers he found a while back Mar 01 10:25:49 Why? Mar 01 10:25:56 Are they in the beta? :P Mar 01 10:26:02 no idea :P Mar 01 10:26:16 hmm, 4.7.2 for Symbian Mar 01 10:26:24 when will Maemo's Qt be updated? :P Mar 01 10:26:25 Sweet Mar 01 10:26:35 MohammadAG, when it becomes relevant again? Mar 01 10:26:42 MohammadAG: when you put it in the cssu? :P Mar 01 10:27:11 alterego, what use is that? Apps that require will have to pull in the whole CSSU and be built against it Mar 01 10:27:20 require it* Mar 01 10:27:45 i.e apps in -devel will still use 4.7.0, and apps in the CSSU have an ABI break with 4.7.0 Mar 01 10:28:47 Talk to x-fade, we should plan a transition. Mar 01 10:29:18 otoh, ovi poses the largest problem. Mar 01 10:29:34 4.7.0 is backwards compatible with 4.7.3 Mar 01 10:29:41 so ovi can stfu Mar 01 10:29:54 4.7.2, whatever Mar 01 10:29:59 it should be compatible with 4.8 too Mar 01 10:31:38 meh Mar 01 10:31:44 Qt upgrades need a whole PR upgrade Mar 01 10:31:54 only Qt Mobility was separated from the PR Mar 01 10:31:58 (cc Jaffa) Mar 01 10:32:15 so the only way this can be done is with the CSSU :/ Mar 01 10:32:19 apt-cache show mp-fremantle-generic-pr | grep libqt4 (returns hits) Mar 01 10:37:08 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> does anyone know of any java command switches to forcve a java app into fullscreen windowless mode? Mar 01 10:38:20 talk directly to widget set (Qt, GTK, etc) to set widnow flag Mar 01 10:38:33 window* Mar 01 10:41:18 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> afraid I'm not versed in any of that. was trying to get microemulator to go fullscreen without a titlebar using the ctrl+space keybind from easy debian with no luck. Mar 01 10:48:42 * jonwil is adding more use cases to some of the bugs under "license change requests" to increase the chance that someone at Nokia will decide that its worth putting in the effort Mar 01 10:49:07 Nokia have said in the past that uses cases will help Mar 01 10:50:15 jonwil: put up a list of ones you would like use-cases for Mar 01 10:50:44 If I find any that Mar 01 10:50:52 that I need more use cases for, I will let everyone know :) Mar 01 10:56:01 hmmm, does the existence of ringtoned mean the reasons to open source libhildon-plugins-notify-sv go away? Mar 01 10:58:41 imho there's no need for a reason but.. :) Mar 01 10:59:41 np: Boy Zone - Open Source me for a reason (Let that reason be love) Mar 01 10:59:52 is it me, or does Firefox 4 look like Chrome Mar 01 11:05:04 Mohammad: It does Mar 01 11:05:19 Mohammad: And once Chrome removes the address bar, Firefox will do so too Mar 01 11:05:38 what does Chrome plan to use instead? Mar 01 11:06:29 kittens Mar 01 11:07:15 MohammadAG, yea, it's sad isn't it - FF losing it's individuality. Fortunately, it can -stop- looking like chrome easily - Just right-click, uncheck "tabs on top" Mar 01 11:09:05 You can put back the status bar - status bar 4 ever Mar 01 11:09:09 add-on. Mar 01 11:09:14 Also - ass-hatted. Mar 01 11:09:44 To be fair, I've actually gotten to like the -new- replacement statusbar thingie they've added in the last beta Mar 01 11:10:04 Where it's still in the same spot, but in it's own bar Mar 01 11:10:40 It allows for longer URLs than the statusbar, especially when half-full of add-ons Mar 01 11:26:09 http://pastebin.com/apRrgbY1 Mar 01 11:26:27 Those are the bugs where it is worth trying to put more use cases into Mar 01 11:39:24 jonwil: Added a couple Mar 01 11:40:45 ok, great Mar 01 11:47:33 I've had a collision in the Conversations program with two different contacts appearing in the same conversation. I just noticed that the sqlite db containing "Events", el-v1.db, has a column "group_uid" which is the 7 last digits of the "remote_uid". I vaguely remember reading about a collision, but can't recall if it was about Maemo or some other OS -- could it be (or is it) connected to the group_uid column? Mar 01 11:50:05 btw, if you want to see more openness on Maemo, go vote for the bugs in the pastebin I linked Mar 01 11:50:20 voting for them would show Nokia that there is community interface Mar 01 11:50:26 Community intreest Mar 01 11:50:30 interest Mar 01 11:54:39 I am really hoping we can get more middleware code out of this (like the SMS code and the ICD stuff) Mar 01 11:55:26 Which the powers that be don't really care about :P Mar 01 12:06:15 jonwil: some of the code is not nokia's power to publish Mar 01 12:08:41 chem|st: that's mostly driver or near driver level stuff Mar 01 12:08:43 i'd written a meego image onto a 16 gig sd, i wanna kill it and format the emmc... any easy way to do it through x-term and restore original sizes? Mar 01 12:09:03 the closer you get to the ui layer the more it's just managerial turf wars Mar 01 12:13:16 toadpole: 'format' in context menu of card in hildon filemanager? Mar 01 12:17:42 I doubt any of the code we are asking for in these various requests is code Nokia is unable to publish Mar 01 12:19:06 are you asking for sgx drivers? Mar 01 12:19:16 nope Mar 01 12:19:20 we know we wont get those Mar 01 12:19:41 pragmatic realists... wow Mar 01 12:21:38 the list of various filed bugs includes the microb UI bits, rtcom-messaging-ui, rtcom-notification-ui, rtcom-call-ui, status-area-applet-battery, libosso-abook, MCE, libhildon-plugins-notifiy-sv, libbmeipc headers, libsms/csd-sms code, some ICD stuff and the various connectivity UI bits (status bar widgets, control panels, configuration dialogs etc) Mar 01 12:22:04 Mar 01 12:22:18 Soo, what is new in the world of suffering today? Mar 01 12:24:05 scrum! Mar 01 12:24:11 it makes me suffer Mar 01 12:28:11 we are discussing outstanding license change requests and how likely they are to be fulfilled Mar 01 12:29:47 scrum shscrum who cares Mar 01 12:30:03 jonwil: My pocket Cpt Obvious says UNLIKELY. Mar 01 12:30:40 jonwil: But, of course, you have to be quick, while there is someone at Nokia who knows what you are talking about Mar 01 12:30:49 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11128#c8 says something might happen Mar 01 12:30:50 Bug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework Mar 01 12:31:00 In 6 months, the response may well be "Huh?" Mar 01 12:59:27 fact is, there is someone at Nokia willing to try and move forward on this. So we should encourage them to do that Mar 01 13:13:29 timeless_xchat, fixed orientation lock, just had to reroute /system/osso/af/slide-open somewhere else :p Mar 01 13:15:31 MohammadAG: is that for the "slide to answer project" Mar 01 13:15:39 no, microb Mar 01 13:15:52 oh ok Mar 01 13:15:53 orientation lock, as on iOS/Android Mar 01 13:16:07 no clue , but is ok Mar 01 13:16:20 i prefe use microb in landspace Mar 01 13:16:35 i wonder where microb settings are Mar 01 13:21:42 MohammadAG: Is that a portrait orientation lock? :-) Mar 01 13:22:24 MohammadAG, if you have any further use cases for any of the bugs linked here http://pastebin.com/apRrgbY1 please post them Mar 01 13:24:01 Jaffa, landscape, but microB listens to KB slides and mce instead of hildon-desktop rotation Mar 01 13:25:40 mohammadag, :) Mar 01 13:26:31 timeless_office, does microB use gconf for rotation settings? Mar 01 13:27:20 * BCMM hands timeless_xchat a tab key Mar 01 13:27:36 (shift-space for maemo xchat) Mar 01 13:28:08 microb=osso-browser (.browser, .browser_typed_urls) + xulrunner (.mozilla/microb/prefs.js) Mar 01 13:28:19 my n900 forgets the date with every battery change... is there a replaceable clock battery on the board? Mar 01 13:28:48 yes, needs desoldering and stuff Mar 01 13:28:52 pupnik: I have the same issue Mar 01 13:29:10 BCMM, :o, thanks Mar 01 13:29:12 i used to have the issue Mar 01 13:29:18 dropped the phone and it worked :) Mar 01 13:29:19 MohammadAG: any pictures or something? Mar 01 13:29:24 Can't the N900 synch itself? Mar 01 13:29:38 oh dear, i don't want to solder on that board Mar 01 13:29:48 can anyone get soundcloud.com to work on their n900? Mar 01 13:29:58 it's just a small solder afaik Mar 01 13:30:10 it's the same as the OpenMoki FR battery Mar 01 13:30:17 what do you mean rotation settings? Mar 01 13:30:35 "Enable rotation" Mar 01 13:30:52 MohammadAG: do you know any special search terms for it for google? "FR battery"? Mar 01 13:31:02 Enable_Rotation=true in .browser Mar 01 13:31:21 FreeRunner, ask DocScrutinizer Mar 01 13:31:55 timeless_xchat, what's .parentlock? Mar 01 13:32:11 someone has _much_ expecience in the application "frontView" ? what are the main things, to get good results? only one paper per image? dark or white background? someone has some tipps? Mar 01 13:32:25 MohammadAG, it's the code so your parents can stop you from watching the satellite porn channels... Mar 01 13:32:26 it's gecko's way of saying "this profile is in use by a running process" Mar 01 13:32:42 ideally when gecko quits, it deletes the file Mar 01 13:33:02 note that the lock file names predate mozilla/5 Mar 01 13:33:09 timeless: Any hidden trick to permanently enable text reflow? Mar 01 13:33:13 but browserd never quits :P Mar 01 13:33:27 rst38h: afaik there isn't Mar 01 13:33:34 it would be fun to solder a tiny battery in parallel with the n900 main battery to allow hotswap Mar 01 13:33:35 http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf Mar 01 13:33:39 mohammadag: technically false Mar 01 13:33:59 you can ask browserd instances to stop Mar 01 13:34:08 and note that there are a couple Mar 01 13:34:48 anyone know2 what vcard is? Mar 01 13:34:54 pupnik: for hotswap you should use a USB dongle with some 4 NiMH button cells Mar 01 13:35:51 hmm that's clever Mar 01 13:36:05 pupnik: for backup bat for RTC see above link. The capacitor type at bottom recommended (by me :-D) Mar 01 13:36:28 So if you have the charger plugged in you can hot swap sim cards? Mar 01 13:36:34 pupnik: sure it's clever. That's an Idea I came up with :-P Mar 01 13:36:51 jonwil, wasn't vcard supposed to be this technology to exchange identities from phone to phone? Virtual Business Cards? Mar 01 13:37:00 http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Seiko-Instruments/XH414H-IV01E/?qs=i40xbvP3shnmoWHAOBMGLw%3d%3d << ? Mar 01 13:37:57 pupnik: for the battery dongle hotswap, switch on VBUS while battery is good for that. Then when swapping just follow the instructions in my hotswap tmo thread Mar 01 13:39:33 yes i just remembered that Mar 01 13:40:18 DocScrutinizer: theoretically it would be possible to wire up unregulated button cells in parallel with the main battery leads right? Mar 01 13:40:35 they just float along with whatever voltage the main battery has Mar 01 13:40:46 well duh Mar 01 13:40:52 they'd be almost empty when the main batt is empty Mar 01 13:40:52 no, only a single LiIon cell of same chemistry type would play nice Mar 01 13:41:03 ah Mar 01 13:41:24 thanks for the link DocScrutinizer Mar 01 13:41:31 you can parallel cels, but only if they are same chemistry and charge state Mar 01 13:41:35 yw Mar 01 13:42:26 timeless_xchat, do settings stay in memory? Mar 01 13:42:41 cause changing it changed the setting back Mar 01 13:44:45 pupnik: yes, that link you posted looks OK Mar 01 13:44:58 (I haven't checked exact dimensions) Mar 01 13:46:05 crashanddie: jonwil: sure, export vcard from maemo contacts. look at the file Mar 01 13:47:04 DocScrutinizer: it's linked from the last product on the pdf page you gave me Mar 01 13:48:45 * jonwil has run out of things to reverse engineer Mar 01 13:49:41 jonwil, how about actually forward engineering something then Mar 01 13:50:12 implement the source code and produce future binaries Mar 01 13:50:17 jonwil, why not holp with the powervr drivers then? http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/new-high-priority-project-powervr-drivers Mar 01 13:51:10 None of the things I want to code are things I can do at this point Mar 01 13:51:13 Curious Mar 01 13:51:16 for various reasons Mar 01 13:51:25 As for PowerVR drivers, good luck cloning those Mar 01 13:51:38 They are insanely complex Mar 01 13:51:47 jonwil, I thought that a few years ago Mar 01 13:52:04 Is anyone with actual skills working on powervr drivers? Mar 01 13:52:20 jonwil, apparently Mar 01 13:52:29 Modification of the Linux Kernel driver is at least possible, and will allow print-outs to be taken of the data passing through it. (As there is no encryption, this is perfectly possible and reasonable). From these print-outs, it will be possible to write simple OpenGL applications that perform ... Mar 01 13:52:34 ... simple 3D operations, one by one, and the results observed, recorded and then, ultimately, replayed. This well-known method has already been utilised to great effect, to reverse-engineer the majority of Samsung's FIMD-3D engine present in the S3C6410 and the S5PC100. Mar 01 13:52:51 Thats not as simple as it sounds, trust me Mar 01 13:52:59 * MohammadAG wonders Mar 01 13:52:59 never said it was Mar 01 13:53:06 so if I want to fix microB Mar 01 13:53:19 The USSE opcodes have been reverse-engineered, as well as the assembly language decoded. This is an important step forward because this information cannot easily be decoded from simple observation of the data passing through the Linux Kernel Driver. Mar 01 13:53:30 I need to listen to dbus (from C, meh), then set slider state to on when orientation's locked Mar 01 13:53:34 sounds dirty :/ Mar 01 13:53:46 (even if the slider's locked) Mar 01 13:55:38 MohammadAG: you're talking gibberish Mar 01 13:56:33 for PowerVR, figuring out 3D is not the highest priority, figuring out 2D is Mar 01 13:57:57 Having working X (on maemo and meego) without closed-bins is more usefull than trying to get OpenGL going Mar 01 13:58:22 I thought that was already possible Mar 01 13:58:40 Clark Kent is an IT nerd! http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2011386&cid=35310148 Mar 01 13:59:49 2D is not possible, not without libpvr2d.so Mar 01 13:59:57 and friends Mar 01 14:00:51 jonwil, also might be of interest: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?28188-There-Might-Be-An-Open-PowerVR-Driver-In-Q3-11 Mar 01 14:01:05 I saw that link befor3e Mar 01 14:02:49 I dont believe it will happen, I suspect PowerVR are too concerned about patents and IP issues to open their userspace like that Mar 01 14:09:26 I am surprised that we havent seen Intel push hard for openness in this space Mar 01 14:09:52 If Intel said "we want to buy a graphics IP core for our mobile ATOM efforts and we will buy from someone who is open" companies might listen Mar 01 14:11:45 as for the situation with the N900 GPU, best place to start Mar 01 14:11:58 IMO is to reverse engineer libsrv_um.so Mar 01 14:12:07 which is a thunk layer to kernel Mar 01 14:13:52 jonwil, are your reverse engineering efforts above board? I thought it was frowned upon in many juristictions? Mar 01 14:14:23 Open Source working around roadblocks has historically not been about reverse engineering, but by coding around the issue! Mar 01 14:14:48 so, have you looked around to see what open source 3d libraries there are already? Mar 01 14:15:06 (or 2d for that matter) Mar 01 14:15:43 (noted based on the mediaplayer guys, they did not reverse engineer the closed binaries, they reimplemented the app) Mar 01 14:16:39 lcuk, this work because you can connect to the backend ... else reverse will be necessary :) Mar 01 14:17:22 khertan_, I thought linux engineers poked at the hardware metal to work out how to use it Mar 01 14:17:35 rather than looking at any existing binaries Mar 01 14:17:53 (which is probably more work than just sending signals) Mar 01 14:18:47 I remember at college questions like "you have a black box with N wires, work out the logic and tell us what this box does" Mar 01 14:18:51 lcuk, in fact ... most of the time, the easiest way is to sniff how the official closed driver talk to the materials ... and reproduct it :) Mar 01 14:19:10 and we had to send binary signals into the box and record results to see what logic gate was inside Mar 01 14:19:43 khertan_, and whilst that may be the simplest, as I said in a lot of countries reverse engineering is not considered right Mar 01 14:19:54 this kind of things is quite easy with 2^8 logic gate ... but not here Mar 01 14:19:55 reverse engineering by disassembly is very common in all sorts of situations Mar 01 14:20:05 not considered legal perhaps, but it'd still be right, imo Mar 01 14:20:37 lcuk, it s not reverse by disassemblies, it s understanding how to talk to the materials by reproducting the same communication protocols Mar 01 14:20:45 and this is legal in france Mar 01 14:20:55 jonwil, where are you? Mar 01 14:21:02 Australia Mar 01 14:21:11 and would the results of your work be legal in other countries? Mar 01 14:21:18 lcuk, yep Mar 01 14:21:20 :) Mar 01 14:23:04 * jonwil has been reverse engineering binaries since the days when the best way to reverse engineer stuff was to use SoftIce system debugger to do it Mar 01 14:24:50 * lcuk has been writing new program source since the days when the best way to code stuff was to use the ZX Spectrum BASIC interpreter. Mar 01 14:25:02 I been writing new code for years too Mar 01 14:25:10 but reverse engineering stuff is fun :P Mar 01 14:26:06 mostly I reverse engineer games Mar 01 14:26:52 mostly I play and write games Mar 01 14:27:02 * lcuk notices a theme here ;) Mar 01 14:27:03 * SpeedEvil pokes lcuk. Mar 01 14:30:29 i just recently learned that my first programming was on microsoft basic :( Mar 01 14:33:14 back to thinking about what to poke around inside next Mar 01 14:35:29 lcuk: (what logic gate) have fun when the 'logic gate' is any LSI, like a small CPU or sth :-P Mar 01 14:36:06 Go ask the people behind MAME what deep level reverse engineering is like :P Mar 01 14:37:39 DocScrutinizer, was just example, I cannot remember which it was Mar 01 14:37:51 but black box decoding was the way we were taught Mar 01 14:37:57 lcuk: ...or - in this case - a GFX core Mar 01 14:38:02 yeah Mar 01 14:38:10 there are similar things I remember from the n810 Mar 01 14:38:19 someone worked out how to poke it to switch it on Mar 01 14:38:35 remember, n810 there was no sgx binary so everything had to be done the old fashioned proper way Mar 01 14:39:08 I think those interested in the PowerVR stuff should talk to the Noveau guys about how to reverse engineer linux graphics drivers Mar 01 14:39:18 lcuk: what do you think HOW that dude worked out how to switch it on? Mar 01 14:39:25 jonwil, the n8x0 had no binaries to reverse engineer Mar 01 14:39:28 by throwing random patterns at it? Mar 01 14:39:33 yeah true Mar 01 14:39:44 and has a powervr core inside it Mar 01 14:40:06 DocScrutinizer, hard work Mar 01 14:40:15 notice, WD-1 was not released Mar 01 14:40:23 it took until WD-40 to find something worthwhile Mar 01 14:40:33 if the guys had given up early we would all have rusty bolts Mar 01 14:41:58 frankly, nobody tries to figure how some complex chip works, by throwing patterns at it and watch the results - as long as there's a working implememntation Mar 01 14:42:17 in windoze or sth which you can trace to see how it's done Mar 01 14:42:39 *Windows Mar 01 14:42:56 yeah trying to blackbox reverse engineer the N900 GPU would be stupid when we have a working implementation we can poke around in and play with Mar 01 14:43:04 including an open source kernel blob we can hack Mar 01 14:43:18 meh, sense of adventure Mar 01 14:43:51 my view is that I use whatever sources of information I can get my hands on Mar 01 14:43:53 and monitoring a process and carefully trace what it does is *not* RE in the ToS meaning Mar 01 14:44:36 copying the source (even binary source) would be RE that'S forbidden in some countries Mar 01 14:44:54 AFAIK I never agreed to an EULA for my phone Mar 01 14:45:11 using gdb or tcpdump or whatever tools to monitor is not RE Mar 01 14:45:21 jonwil: you did Mar 01 14:45:39 but that's highly irrelevant Mar 01 14:47:17 I must not disassemble bme and then re-implement it based on the original assembler listing. But I'm free to check what bme is acting like wrt writing registers in bq24150, and then conclude what I want to do to treat battery in a similar or better way Mar 01 14:47:29 unless it involves copy protection, in the US at least, cleanroom reverse engineering is legal (i.e. the IBM bios clone) Mar 01 14:47:50 same applies to all the other interfaces bme has to other system components and the data that's transferred there Mar 01 14:47:58 It might be a copyright violation to disassemble something and write direct code based on the results Mar 01 14:48:10 yep Mar 01 14:49:15 in the case of the N900 though, I cant see Nokia deciding to sue me for reverse engineering status-area-applet-battery or libcsd-sms :P Mar 01 14:49:36 Didn't the IBM bios cloning include describing the interfaces to someone else, who subsequently did the coding...? Mar 01 14:49:36 in EU it's even allowed to disassemble and patch the binary, to fix issues that the manufacturer won't address Mar 01 14:50:05 * lcuk just reads old computer magazines Mar 01 14:50:49 well, o/ - too nice weather outside to sit here and chat - bbl Mar 01 14:53:31 MohammadAG: Presumably the slide redirect would be useful for portrait lock as well :-) Mar 01 14:56:26 yeah Mar 01 14:56:39 just make a new boolean and sed the browser binary Mar 01 14:56:48 like Slide instead of slide Mar 01 15:00:21 hello, question: GPS guidance works ovimap? i see contradictory information on the web? Mar 01 15:03:51 GPS does work with ovi maps Mar 01 15:03:59 what you dont get is the voice navigation Mar 01 15:08:29 ok i found it http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/maps-support/compatibility-and-download#/nokia-n900/ Mar 01 15:08:44 jonwil: compared to google nav... ovi maps is retarded :) Mar 01 15:08:57 yep Mar 01 15:08:59 Macer: why? Mar 01 15:09:13 because google nav is just better Mar 01 15:09:22 what is the diff ? Mar 01 15:09:22 ive used both and gnav is awesome Mar 01 15:09:23 ok Mar 01 15:09:55 voice turn by turn directions... better routes... way way better interface Mar 01 15:10:03 easier to choose your destination Mar 01 15:10:24 ovi maps just has a retarded method to choose a destination Mar 01 15:10:52 in gnav you just say your destination and it gets you there Mar 01 15:12:07 once nitdroid can use the gps i don't think i would ever use ovi maps again Mar 01 15:12:35 what about mappero ? Mar 01 15:12:37 oh yeah... not sure about this but if you miss a turn gnav auto reroutes within seconds Mar 01 15:12:41 look like work fine Mar 01 15:12:55 E0x: never tried it Mar 01 15:13:50 E0x: i will try it out Mar 01 15:14:04 ok Mar 01 15:14:08 i have to get to the airport soon anyways Mar 01 15:14:28 the only thing i think is not sure about offline use Mar 01 15:14:43 I doubt GPS will be working on nitdroid anytime soon Mar 01 15:15:14 or bme Mar 01 15:15:32 jonwil: i doubt a lot of things will be working in anything but maemo any time soon Mar 01 15:16:00 i am actually just considering getting myself a G2 Mar 01 15:16:02 GPS will be working on MeeGo soon I suspect Mar 01 15:16:33 heh. i doubt it :) no offense to the meego guys.. but meego won't be functional in forever Mar 01 15:16:41 the n900 is almost obsolete Mar 01 15:16:43 the launch of meego was not set to april ? Mar 01 15:16:44 AFAIK GPS (not AGPS) works and is awaiting legal approval to push the right bits to the meego-closed-bins repo Mar 01 15:17:06 E0x: not sure about the n900 port Mar 01 15:17:22 well n900 is the dev plataform Mar 01 15:18:03 E0x: i don't think so. i thought the arm adaptation was more of a pure community driven platform Mar 01 15:18:12 Might as well get yourself a stockpile of n900s Mar 01 15:18:22 meegoo looks crap to me Mar 01 15:18:35 tych0: i like my n900 tbh Mar 01 15:18:40 i hate nokia ;) Mar 01 15:18:47 tych0: why ? Mar 01 15:18:51 they totally dropped the ball over the last 5 years Mar 01 15:18:53 what i saw so far look good Mar 01 15:19:11 which is why i am sure most of their exec board will be fired soon Mar 01 15:19:17 or "repositioned" Mar 01 15:19:50 they had a real chance if they put effort in maemo when they had the chance.. but they didnt want to give up on symbian Mar 01 15:20:14 which was totally obsolete in features compared to other mob OSes Mar 01 15:20:50 ovi maps vs gnav http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmOz1iVypnE Mar 01 15:21:05 the real shame is if they marketed maemo before apple ... they'd be what the iphone is now Mar 01 15:21:23 they were way ahead of the game when the iphone came out Mar 01 15:21:43 but dropped the ball over and over because they considered touch things niche Mar 01 15:21:55 and put almost no effort in maemo Mar 01 15:22:05 a true shame Mar 01 15:22:13 yep Mar 01 15:22:59 ah well... now they are in panic mode using winmob and abandoning all their operating systems Mar 01 15:23:10 once ms gets their claws into nokia they are done Mar 01 15:23:40 i don't think that Mar 01 15:23:41 they will only have business users who require exchange support Mar 01 15:23:48 Macer: swap to meego ? no? Mar 01 15:23:56 which is all winmob is really good for Mar 01 15:24:07 a lot of people put great effort into maemo :| Mar 01 15:24:07 most end users want ios or android Mar 01 15:24:28 Macer: that's why android on linux (maemo/meego) is such a value proposition Mar 01 15:24:30 pupnik: oh i agree... but nokia's support could have been way better Mar 01 15:24:34 yes Mar 01 15:25:04 even if you only support a subset of android apps, you cet the 'multipass' effect (lilu) Mar 01 15:25:04 the actual community kept maemo going. which is sad Mar 01 15:25:17 google put its full weight behind android.. and look at it now Mar 01 15:25:24 it is crushing everything Mar 01 15:25:32 and you can do your 1st class apps in gtk or qt or whatever Mar 01 15:25:58 while nokia has to use a MS os? Mar 01 15:26:13 they can eliminate half their programmers now Mar 01 15:26:19 if not all of them :) Mar 01 15:26:21 maybe windows mobile 7 will be good Mar 01 15:26:22 i hesitate between android or a n900 second hand Mar 01 15:26:32 nobody is sure about anything Mar 01 15:26:37 niala1: i thought you bought the n900 for 180? Mar 01 15:26:45 that was a good deal. all of them are 200+ here Mar 01 15:27:16 yes but the guy is very slow, he say he call me but he don't!!. Mar 01 15:27:20 i have the archos android tablet and it only gets used for media playback - it's really no fun Mar 01 15:27:25 ah ok Mar 01 15:27:42 n900 has better apps than android :) Mar 01 15:27:45 for me at least Mar 01 15:28:56 pupnik: maemo has a lot of great apps.. but nokia made devs skeptical of making anything on it because every revision means the last one is dropped Mar 01 15:29:34 has anyone tried meego on n900 and can comment on performance of starting-up apps? Mar 01 15:29:40 i heard it's terrible Mar 01 15:29:52 "10 seconds to start dialer" Mar 01 15:30:02 maybe he had swap issues, i dunno Mar 01 15:30:36 pupnik, making sure you really want to answer that call Mar 01 15:30:42 the bug is filed under dialer afaik Mar 01 15:30:55 and the app will be mem locked or something Mar 01 15:31:29 men locked ? Mar 01 15:31:41 reserve mem for it ? Mar 01 15:32:07 lcuk: ok how about starting some random qt app... Mar 01 15:32:24 btw i got cpu-less speaker protection running in mpg123 Mar 01 15:33:00 sound quality is meh though Mar 01 15:33:09 but it's good for lectures/spoken podcasts Mar 01 15:33:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzi4xfMWMuw - funny Intel ad ) Mar 01 15:54:07 wheee Mar 01 15:54:55 combined with "easyplay" we'll have ultralow cpu mp3 playback :D Mar 01 16:01:34 maaarghh! fried remaining speaker again stress-testing Mar 01 16:06:59 now you need 0 cpu to play back mp3 Mar 01 16:07:18 about 10% at 250mhz Mar 01 16:08:07 isn't there some new age mystical mp3s that actually promise to recharge your batteries just by listening to them? Mar 01 16:12:20 I'd be happy with whatever reasonable CPU usage if only we get decent EQ, and gapless mp3 playback Mar 01 16:12:21 hm Mar 01 16:12:26 trying ut mapero Mar 01 16:12:30 *out Mar 01 16:14:11 how do i get driving directions with it? Mar 01 16:14:13 :) Mar 01 16:19:04 pupnik_: I think (still without yet checking the original bat's formfactor) that you should use http://www.mouser.com/access/?pn=628-XH414H-II06E Mar 01 16:20:54 pupnik_: yes, verified in schematics board photo you need formfactor F which is XH414H-II06E Mar 01 16:35:11 hm Mar 01 16:35:32 when i look up businesses i get ... operation not permitted Mar 01 16:35:35 wtf :) Mar 01 16:36:06 DocScrutinizer: unfortunately the 32 fixed-bands involved in mp3 decoding do not map to useable musical eq bands. Mar 01 16:36:20 at least those exposed by mpg123 do not Mar 01 16:36:43 However now my second speaker has stopped working again, so testing is out for the time-being :D Mar 01 16:38:31 hm Mar 01 16:43:30 is it allowed to upload a .deb to repos with a precompiled binary? Mar 01 16:43:54 not that i know, trx Mar 01 16:44:03 possibly in the non-free section Mar 01 16:44:19 trx does your precompiled binary work on both x86 and arm? Mar 01 16:44:22 *grin* Mar 01 16:44:41 only arm because of eg, libconic Mar 01 16:44:45 Hello friends, I am trying to connect my n900 to my pc using usb. I want to ssh from my pc to n900. I followed n900 usb networking wiki. But i am not able to ping my n900 from my pc. My pc's ip is 192.168.1.5. Please guide me with the configuration to be done Mar 01 16:45:27 well. what went wrong? Mar 01 16:45:28 pupnik its an open source app but i cant get the autobuilder to compile it Mar 01 16:45:33 poomalairaj, there may be many many things getting in your way - check your pc firewall/viruschecker/time of day etc Mar 01 16:45:47 trx, which app? better to fix it Mar 01 16:45:53 than to offer bad binary Mar 01 16:46:11 ie, where is the failure log from maemo autobuilder Mar 01 16:46:13 because it uses lazarus/free pascal which is really hard to pack as a deb and send it to the repos Mar 01 16:46:16 (it sends a mail with link) Mar 01 16:46:16 (for me) Mar 01 16:46:19 the app is just fine Mar 01 16:46:23 there is nothing to fix Mar 01 16:46:58 its the compiler i cant pack Mar 01 16:47:05 and its not in the repos :/ Mar 01 16:47:17 trx why can't you submit it? Mar 01 16:47:49 if you built it by hand yourself, autobuilder should be able to rebuild if setup correctly :) Mar 01 16:48:01 lcuk: you have some really annoying comments here Mar 01 16:48:04 lcuk, Please clarify me am i using the right ip address and gateway. The guide says the n900's ip should be 192.168.2.15 but my computer's ip is 192.168.1.5 and broadband modem's address is 192.168.1.1 Mar 01 16:48:04 i didnt build the compiler myself Mar 01 16:48:31 there is no FPC compiler in the repos, so autobuilder cant use it to compile my app Mar 01 16:49:43 pupnik, which comments are annoying? Mar 01 16:49:57 /lastlog lcuk Mar 01 16:51:27 trx: perhaps you should make a dummy package that downloads the binary from another location Mar 01 16:52:08 if there are objects you cannot move, sometimes you need to go around them Mar 01 16:52:35 i have created a .deb which works properly with the binary in it Mar 01 16:52:45 and installed it on my n900 and it works well Mar 01 16:53:03 its just that i dont know if im allowed to send that to the repos Mar 01 16:54:19 because of the whole "never install untested/trusted binaries" thing Mar 01 16:56:26 i would provide the source of course etc.. Mar 01 17:09:11 trx: there's no mechanism for it. you need to get all your dependencies built in autobuilder Mar 01 17:09:27 if you want to upload your package Mar 01 17:11:56 i was affraid of that, thats really lots of work, to install the compiler.. Mar 01 17:12:19 afraid* Mar 01 17:13:29 trx, trailblazers always end up doing more work than those that follow. Mar 01 17:14:46 yeah but i can with one click compile my bin for win/*nix/mac/etc arm/x86/x86-64 Mar 01 17:15:15 and with one click change underlying widgetsets (qt/gtk/carbon/win) Mar 01 17:17:00 trx, :) moving from what you can do to what anyone can do is always tricky. Mar 01 17:17:08 * lcuk speaks from experience Mar 01 17:17:49 timeless_xchat: to convert from e.g "mcen_ap_name" to sth like "mail" would I use gettext(1)? I.E. are those translations in standard .po or has Nokia invented another proprietary system for that? Mar 01 17:18:37 lcuk this isnt a problem really, its a problem for me as im new to linux and debian packages, thats why its *atm* hard for me to create a package Mar 01 17:19:21 while someone who works with linux and fpc could probably do this in matter of hours Mar 01 17:19:48 i dont mind, ill learn from this ;) Mar 01 17:25:48 trx: to upload something to the repositories, you actually upload a description file and a tarball to buildhost. You need an account to do this Mar 01 17:26:35 yes, i have an account and can upload to extras Mar 01 17:26:56 the tarball consists of all the sources, so buildhost will create a package from it (when you're lucky) Mar 01 17:27:09 its just that the autobuilder doesnt have my compiler (FPC) Mar 01 17:27:52 and i dont know how to create a package of my compiler and even if i create one, am i allowed to upload it to the repos.. Mar 01 17:28:31 but that question is for people at #fpc, not here Mar 01 17:29:20 umm, if your package needs a special compiler, then you need to "upload" that compiler first. Then buildhost will pull in the dependency and use it - afaik. Without that special compiler in repos neither buildhost nor anybody else can build your package Mar 01 17:29:29 so thats why i asked if i'm allowed to send binary and have the autobuilder actually compile nothing, just pack the .deb Mar 01 17:30:31 nah, the compiler of course also needs to be FOSS and get built on buildhost from source, with gcc or whatever Mar 01 17:30:48 it is FOSS of course Mar 01 17:30:56 its free pascal Mar 01 17:32:08 then its confirmed, i will have to create the compiler package first Mar 01 17:32:18 :nod: I guess there's no other way than to create a package for building FPC then. Dunno if there are other sources of executables that buildhost can pull from Mar 01 17:33:35 but you better ask somebody who got a bit of an idea how buildhost works - I'm an ignorant regarding that Mar 01 17:34:23 someone told me some time ago that it extracts an empty OS image, installs the dependencies and then compiles my app Mar 01 17:35:14 esp my assumption about buildhost pulling in buildtime dependencies for tools from the own repos is mere hearsay and disclaimer "IIRC" Mar 01 17:35:31 yep Mar 01 17:38:14 honestly there should be quite a number of guys hanging out here who know way better than me and can give you really useful hints Mar 01 17:44:13 standard .po Mar 01 17:44:18 thnx Mar 01 17:44:28 and nokia bought trolltech Mar 01 17:44:45 who in turn already invented their own localization format (.ts) Mar 01 17:44:56 do we get partial credit there? :) Mar 01 17:44:59 just wondering why an apt-get install gettext includes gettext-base which seems is 8MB :-/ Mar 01 17:46:23 well, wondering why it's 8MB maybe Mar 01 17:46:54 or, to be precise, I just want the gettext cli binary without all that cruft Mar 01 17:47:13 i want an n900 whose usb port works Mar 01 17:47:21 you're being greedy Mar 01 17:47:26 (low battery) Mar 01 17:47:31 or some other cli tool to get the translation mcen_ap_name->mail Mar 01 17:48:08 mxr.maemo.org? Mar 01 17:48:16 *cough* Mar 01 17:49:02 mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=mcen_ap_name&find=po$ Mar 01 17:49:12 the second hit would work for me :) Mar 01 17:49:59 I planned to use gettext(1) or any other cli means to translate that darn mcen_ap_name in a script I planned to publish. Can't depend on gettext-base (8MB) for users to use that script Mar 01 17:50:55 Is anyone in here using muppen64plus from the extras-devel repository? Mar 01 17:51:16 also using greasemonky or some wget|awk wizardry requiring internet connectivity isn't bearable as a prerequisite for that script Mar 01 17:53:13 honestly I wonder how Nokia managed to screw things so nicely once again. .desktop already has (and always had) generic support for I18n, still Nokia decided to implement .po based crap into it Mar 01 17:54:52 DocScrutinizer: just a question, do you also use Linux on your desktop or laptop computer? Mar 01 17:55:02 the whole translation concept of maemo is fundamentally flawed Mar 01 17:55:16 Venemo: sure, why? Mar 01 17:55:49 all systems use .po -> .mo files Mar 01 17:55:57 so? Mar 01 17:55:57 DocScrutinizer, I'm just curious, what distro do you use? Mar 01 17:56:18 meh, irrelevant. No buntkuh crap Mar 01 17:56:33 just please tell me Mar 01 17:56:45 OpenSuse Mar 01 17:56:51 find /usr/share -name *.mo Mar 01 17:56:54 mhm Mar 01 17:56:58 openSUSE probably uses them too Mar 01 17:57:21 DocScrutinizer: Opensuse is related to Fedora, right? Mar 01 17:57:23 so? what? Mar 01 17:57:50 Venemo: nfc Mar 01 17:58:22 okay DocScrutinizer :) Mar 01 17:59:42 Where is javispedro? I can't understand how to use LD_PRELOAD support for preenv within the .desktop file. Mar 01 18:00:22 And why applications are called through d-bus service rather then via exec call as written .desktop? Mar 01 18:00:55 X-Osso-Service Mar 01 18:01:29 Any ideas? Simply passing LD_PRELOAD to .desktop/.service doesn't work. Mar 01 18:01:44 IroN900:~# grep Name= /usr/share/applications/hildon/modest.desktop /usr/share/applications/hildon/htop.desktop Mar 01 18:01:46 /usr/share/applications/hildon/modest.desktop:Name=mcen_ap_name Mar 01 18:01:47 /usr/share/applications/hildon/modest.desktop:Name=uri_link_compose_email Mar 01 18:01:49 /usr/share/applications/hildon/htop.desktop:Name=Htop Mar 01 18:01:50 /usr/share/applications/hildon/htop.desktop:GenericName=Process Viewer Mar 01 18:02:22 Venemo: archlinux Mar 01 18:02:34 MohammadAG, I see how it's called, but I can't understand the reason - why to use dbus service call instead of direct call? Mar 01 18:02:37 divan, .sh file Mar 01 18:02:47 divan, transitions when opening the file are one Mar 01 18:03:31 MohammadAG, .sh means overwriting/duplication all wrapper.sh and env.sh stuff. I want to follow javispedro scripts and make as straightforward as possible. Mar 01 18:03:51 MohammadAG, didn't get about transitions. Can you explain? Mar 01 18:04:25 the screenshot that opens when an app opens Mar 01 18:04:31 to make it look faster Mar 01 18:04:37 that's the only thing I can think of atm Mar 01 18:04:37 i hate that Mar 01 18:04:40 Huh Mar 01 18:04:54 open the clock app, it'll show a screenshot then the application itself Mar 01 18:05:08 it make look fast but crappy at the same time Mar 01 18:05:30 also don't invoke twice, rather bring to front the running instance Mar 01 18:05:56 DocScrutinizer, lcuk mentioned that to me once, but Exec= also bought back the running instance Mar 01 18:06:04 undeamonice it even, for preloaded apps Mar 01 18:06:24 MohammadAG: yes, indeed Mar 01 18:06:25 so I'm guessing it's hildon-desktop doing some magic Mar 01 18:07:08 otoh iirc I was able to start independent instances of xterm Mar 01 18:07:11 How 'clock' invoker knows what screenshot to launch? Mar 01 18:07:18 Actually I like this idea) Mar 01 18:07:56 divan, X-Osso-Service Mar 01 18:08:03 hildon_take_screenshot() takes a screenshot Mar 01 18:08:17 stores it as ~/.cache/launch/$serviceName.pvr Mar 01 18:08:18 o/ Mar 01 18:08:38 the pvr is loaded using the Power VR SGX, so it shouldn't delay app startup Mar 01 18:09:40 MohammadAG, thanks Mar 01 18:10:42 yq Mar 01 18:10:44 yw* Mar 01 18:11:31 yq = you cute ? Mar 01 18:11:33 :P Mar 01 18:11:41 still I think it's a friggin PITA. I *always* click in vain on settings subfunctions _two times_ until I realize it's just the screenshot Mar 01 18:11:57 DocScrutinizer: indeed Mar 01 18:12:49 freaking annoying Mar 01 18:13:20 I'd prefer just about everything over this stupid screenshot Mar 01 18:13:48 anyway bbl for real now Mar 01 18:16:09 I just look at the spinning circle Mar 01 18:16:22 hah Mar 01 18:16:23 I think my way of implementing it in PSFreedom works best :p Mar 01 18:16:34 how do you implement it? Mar 01 18:16:41 an image saying PSFreedom is loading, Please Wait Mar 01 18:16:57 apt-get install it and see for yourself :P Mar 01 18:33:57 Hi :) Mar 01 18:34:03 o/ Mar 01 18:35:00 remoo pupnik, javispedro Mar 01 18:35:07 moorning Mar 01 18:36:00 hola RST38h Mar 01 18:36:23 what do you think of the cursor-movement in falcons eye? make the arrow keys move diagonally? Mar 01 18:36:41 would allow navigating the levels without the stylus Mar 01 18:37:30 maybe it doesn't have enough users to make it worthwhile Mar 01 18:38:21 javispedro, morning. We've discussed reasons of invoking apps via d-bus service rather then direct exec from .desktop. Do you have something to add to 'visual launch speed-up' and 'preventing from launching twice'? Mar 01 18:38:39 "it is the maemo way"? Mar 01 18:41:27 javispedro, also I didn't find right way to pass LD_PRELOAD to wrapper.sh from .service file, so end up with own .sh wrappers. But maybe you'll suggest more elegant solution? Mar 01 18:42:16 if all you want is to add a single environment variable, I suggest you take a look at the "env" tool Mar 01 18:42:53 javispedro, I need to add it per app only Mar 01 18:43:25 I tried to cal env from .service's Exec - no luck Mar 01 18:43:33 s/cal/call/ Mar 01 18:43:33 divan meant: I tried to call env from .service's Exec - no luck Mar 01 18:44:01 that's how I was doing it previously, so recheck... Mar 01 18:44:14 Exec=/usr/bin/env VAR=VALUE /path/to/binary --arg1 Mar 01 18:50:26 javispedro, it works! Thanks. I've tried with quotes before '/usr/bin/env' and it didn't work. Mar 01 18:53:32 who's on PR1.3 without the CSSU installed? Mar 01 18:53:39 me Mar 01 18:54:13 dpkg -l hildon-desktop pwease? :P Mar 01 18:55:06 MohammadAG: no wireless access , what you need ? Mar 01 18:55:19 ( i mean i can ssh from there and paste easy ) Mar 01 18:55:31 version number Mar 01 18:55:49 is it something like 2.2.140-1+0m5? Mar 01 18:55:52 1:2.2.140-1+0m Mar 01 18:56:03 what is CSSU? Mar 01 18:56:11 5, the last part didn't fit (you need to zoom out to see it), thanks anyway :) Mar 01 18:56:15 ~cssu Mar 01 18:56:16 hmm... cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU Mar 01 18:57:22 MohammadAG: yes is a 5 Mar 01 18:57:38 i send the output to a file and check it Mar 01 18:59:34 By the way guys, I'm working on a theme (and hope I get it finished), could someone later help me with packaging it? Mar 01 19:07:21 hmm Mar 01 19:07:35 never knew you could disable desktop composition with CTRL+SHIFT+N Mar 01 19:08:38 * E0x testing Mar 01 19:09:20 hmm MohammadAG i dont see the effect Mar 01 19:10:32 where are you doing it? Mar 01 19:10:49 @n900 Mar 01 19:11:04 Can you turn it back on though :P Mar 01 19:11:22 http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/23/outraged-child-killers-to-protest-bill-gates-for-calling-them-child-killers Mar 01 19:12:57 I just like the headline :D Mar 01 19:18:15 alterego, toggles it Mar 01 19:20:10 I don't notice a difference :P Mar 01 19:20:41 "disabling" composition on h-d would case title bar to disappear and a whole lot of wacky stuff Mar 01 19:20:43 I doubt it works Mar 01 19:21:36 it does, the title bar does disappear :P Mar 01 19:22:41 oh, good stuff then. Mar 01 19:23:03 lo * Mar 01 19:23:26 Weird, it re-enables it though Mar 01 19:23:35 that makes it even more easier to test when/if h-d causes tearing, MohammadAG. Mar 01 19:24:04 It re-enables it when you task switch Mar 01 19:25:10 due to the way it is written h-d can't do very much when not compositing Mar 01 19:25:41 hmm, you're right Mar 01 19:25:48 turning off compositing reduces tearing Mar 01 19:27:43 now do us an antifavor and post it on tmo, calling it "turbo mode" or "greenpill mode" Mar 01 19:27:43 alterego: funny enough, it wasn't long ago that Bill Gates referred to vaccines as a population control method Mar 01 19:28:03 javispedro, I wouldn't do that now, would I? :P Mar 01 19:28:16 >:) Mar 01 19:28:18 Overclock the UI is a nicer title Mar 01 19:28:31 Heh Mar 01 19:28:56 12 days uptime. REBOOT. Mar 01 19:29:20 Oh, holy Tentacled One, the Phone application really sucks at 12 days uptime... Mar 01 19:29:39 RST38h: make a video of it crawling Mar 01 19:29:56 i had a wierd problem with my n900 earler that has never ocurred before...it constantly asked to choose a connection, if if one was active...no matter what was selected, it just kept popping up...anyone seen that before? Mar 01 19:30:01 javispedro: too painful even to watch it happen Mar 01 19:30:12 exactly, it would be like puppies dying Mar 01 19:30:46 javispedro: the screen blinks, rotates once, part of the phone UI comes up, it gets stuck, the screen rotates one more, it draws properly this time but is sitll stuck, and so forth for 5-10 seconds Mar 01 19:30:59 piggz: maybe you setup something that is needed of a internet connection Mar 01 19:31:08 and that is way is asking for one Mar 01 19:31:21 E0x: but i selected one, and it was active Mar 01 19:31:41 check if is not getting disconnect Mar 01 19:31:48 Venemo, qildon's zoom works fine Mar 01 19:31:50 maybe your provider is having problem with the data Mar 01 19:31:59 RST38h, are you going to attend the fruct conference? Mar 01 19:32:19 E0x: well, it is fixed now after i rebooted it Mar 01 19:32:25 ok Mar 01 19:32:53 Arkenoi: Nope Mar 01 19:33:08 RST38h, i probably will Mar 01 19:33:17 Arkenoi: No point, as none of the people I know will be there Mar 01 19:33:22 whats all this twitter activity about an n950...does it look any good? Mar 01 19:33:49 no even exist Mar 01 19:33:52 so not sure Mar 01 19:33:58 just one comment in a conference Mar 01 19:33:58 no, it does not Mar 01 19:33:59 is there any real information or is it just the name Mar 01 19:34:30 ShadowJK, the only thing we know for sure is that it won't have keyboard, so dump it Mar 01 19:34:46 how you know that for sure if the problem not even exist Mar 01 19:34:49 ? Mar 01 19:34:52 :\ Mar 01 19:34:56 there is a video on youtube, but i dont have the badnwidth atm to watch it :) Mar 01 19:35:28 E0x, Green told so Mar 01 19:39:36 no keyboard? wtf. Mar 01 19:39:43 :( Mar 01 19:40:07 I do not think we know for sure it doesn't have a keyboard. Mar 01 19:40:59 also, still scraping the mwc videos for rumours? Mar 01 19:41:03 * javispedro sighs Mar 01 19:41:11 historically we requeste people not speculate here Mar 01 19:41:26 it prevents nokians from being present Mar 01 19:41:49 the history is ending anyway Mar 01 19:42:14 javispedro: makes no sense guessing. it will leak, sooner or later, and then everyone will complain about it. Mar 01 19:42:29 RST38h: then, after it leaks, it will be scrapped. Mar 01 19:42:30 lol Mar 01 19:42:39 MohammadAG: you merged it? Mar 01 19:42:43 MohammadAG: that's nice :) Mar 01 19:42:56 * javispedro sighs at a pm Mar 01 19:42:58 javispedro: likely, yes Mar 01 19:43:02 I want to kill someone today. Mar 01 19:43:10 javispedro: ah, you too? :) Mar 01 19:44:29 Venemo, manually, patch failed to patch it :p Mar 01 19:46:19 Hey, a little stupid but important for me question Mar 01 19:46:52 is it worth to install community SSU (ofc with making backup first)? Mar 01 19:47:14 What color scheme would you want on a glossy theme? Black and... ? Right now i'm using blue (009cff) Mar 01 19:48:14 * Arkenoi wonders why community SSU is disabling communications on install and reboots even if no big changes are installed and nothing that may affect system stability during install happens. Mar 01 19:48:26 Scorcerer: imho, yes, ats great Mar 01 19:48:41 libya was under colonial rule by Italy Mar 01 19:48:47 dammit wrong channel Mar 01 19:48:48 so there are more changes than those listed on http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog#PR_1.3.3.7-6.5 ? Mar 01 19:50:48 MohammadAG, always wanted to ask ifin PR_1.3.3.7-6.5 1337 is for leech? Mar 01 19:52:22 it is funny, N900 is the first device ever getting a 1337 patch. Which means it's the most superior patch ever. Mar 01 19:52:51 how do i force rotation globally in community ssu (like ctrl-shift-R everywhere)? Mar 01 19:55:35 Arkenoi: forcerotate=1 in thp_tweaks Mar 01 19:56:06 Arkenoi: sorry, forcerotation=1 Mar 01 19:57:54 in transitions.ini ? Mar 01 19:58:28 Arkenoi: yes Mar 01 19:59:52 BCMM, huh Mar 01 19:59:59 BCMM, i'm desperated Mar 01 20:05:17 ZogG, yes, it's 1337 Mar 01 20:05:29 MohammadAG \o/ yay Mar 01 20:07:29 did you know that microsoft's legal department definition of "mobile phone" is a device "that does not include a keyboard designed for use with more than two fingers" Mar 01 20:08:17 lolwut Mar 01 20:09:04 they're retarted. it seems that even on every EULA they put their usual GPL-bashing. Mar 01 20:12:02 when will qt 4.7.2 be available for maemo5? Mar 01 20:13:00 a mobile phone that does not include a keyboard designed for use with more than two fingers? That's... stupid Mar 01 20:13:10 I always used 2 fingers :) Mar 01 20:15:43 i am asking because in qtmobility 1.1.1 the following issue should be fixed: ur.ly/Fr8n Mar 01 20:25:37 javispedro: laptop with apple iwheel Mar 01 20:26:27 aha, the onion. Mar 01 20:28:15 Other than tweakr, are there any other apps which extended the functionality of profiles? Mar 01 20:29:59 steve___, porfilesX, but it sucks Mar 01 20:30:27 Arkenoi: good to know, thanks. Mar 01 20:31:25 * ruskie has yet to find a use for more than silent and general profiles Mar 01 20:32:07 and even those two I switch using a cronjob Mar 01 20:34:53 ruskie: ascending volume would be nice. It would be nice to have a different sound for different email accounts or something like steve___@gmail.com vs steve___+nagios@gamil.com etc Mar 01 20:35:28 Use two E-mail clients, but that's not a viable solution :D Mar 01 20:35:44 break libnotify to actually support that? Mar 01 20:36:09 I read on the board Andriod has a profile app which change profiles based on GPS location. Walking into a theatre would set it to silent... leaving sets it to 'general' Mar 01 20:36:32 ruskie, sound is not made by libnotify Mar 01 20:36:53 lol? Mar 01 20:37:22 Venemo, I would assume that the notifier actually generates the sound based on event... Mar 01 20:37:26 not the actual app Mar 01 20:37:48 ruskie, libnotify is a standard thing accross all Linux distros Mar 01 20:37:56 ah, forced auto rotation does bad trick for programs with "forced portrait" mode like spb brain evolution :-( Mar 01 20:38:06 Venemo, I know Mar 01 20:38:14 ruskie: it just handles some D-Bus stuff, but not sounds Mar 01 20:38:18 also it would be nice to vibrate three times then sound Mar 01 20:38:34 I would assume it sends a play this sound notification as well Mar 01 20:38:48 going further two quick vibrates vs a normal vibrate. Mar 01 20:38:55 anyway... don't really care Mar 01 20:39:09 steve___: modest is open source, feel free to improve it in the ways you want Mar 01 20:39:18 But I'm sure this has all been said before, I was just wondering if there was anything out there. Mar 01 20:39:40 Venemo: No, I completely understand... I'm in no way complaining. Mar 01 20:39:55 ZogG: what's "desperated"? Mar 01 20:40:39 BCMM like wives in TV show Mar 01 20:40:41 pcsuite mode on windows allows browsing files doesnt it? is that possible on linux? i dont want to use mass storage mode becuase im tethering off it over usb Mar 01 20:41:11 piggz: if you've already got a network connection to it, why not use SFTP? Mar 01 20:41:23 piggz: if you already have an SSH daemon running, that is Mar 01 20:41:37 ssh is slower Mar 01 20:41:40 if you use KDE or Gnome, your file manager will accept sftp://user@n900/ as a URL Mar 01 20:41:46 BCMM: good point... Mar 01 20:42:05 where n900 is your n900's hostname or ip, ofc Mar 01 20:42:10 yeah, thats how i get stuff to and from my maemo virtual machine Mar 01 20:42:15 mine's in /etc/hosts Mar 01 20:42:23 i can't remember when i last used mass storage Mar 01 20:42:39 try to copy movie over ssh Mar 01 20:42:46 <_0x47> hi! I just tried to do the update on http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/60704 and realized the .deb file is gone. Anyone know if this still works and where I may get the .deb file? Mar 01 20:43:15 i only use it for putting films on the n900 to watch with TV-out, or copying raw photos off it - anything else is quick enough over sftp to make it not worth plugging it in Mar 01 20:43:17 _0x47: that's way out of date Mar 01 20:43:28 _0x47: problem is gone Mar 01 20:43:34 _0x47: because pr 1.3 is released Mar 01 20:44:14 _0x47: and http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/stable/main/binary-i386/ Mar 01 20:44:44 <_0x47> jacekowski: oh lol, i was gone for too long Mar 01 20:54:37 my brain hurts. who names their method as MaemoPackageCreationStep::addWorkaroundForHarmattanBug, anyway ? Mar 01 20:54:45 <_0x47> jacekowski: thanks, btw :) Mar 01 21:01:41 <_0x47> jacekowski: I'm a bit confused from the devkit thing. I guess I'm supposed to install the .deb file to my "host" as I get "permission denied" in the scratchbox (after /scratchbox/login). So, dpkg -c showed me it will install into ./scratchbox/... (note the leading ./) Mar 01 21:01:55 <_0x47> does that mean I have to run in from / to make it got to /scratchbox? Mar 01 21:02:05 <_0x47> or manually copy it's contents to /scratchbox? Mar 01 21:03:20 i never tried installing it like that Mar 01 21:03:33 but as far as i remember dpkg changes working dir to / anyways Mar 01 21:06:17 <_0x47> oh, then it should be fine, thanks Mar 01 21:13:33 im my qt maemo app....buttons appear with a gradient....but, assuming the colorrole of one of the colors is Qt::Button, what is the other? ive tried light, midligh, mid and dark, but none look right Mar 01 21:28:27 pupnik, hey Mar 01 21:28:29 sup Mar 01 21:28:39 MohammadAG, ping Mar 01 21:29:05 pong Mar 01 21:32:59 piggz, try to ask on #qt Mar 01 21:33:58 divan: i did, no answer...so...i did it myself, by taking the color, converting it to hsv, and adding to the v component to make it slightly lighter :) Mar 01 21:36:05 piggz, maybe you know how to make Qt buttons look like default Hildon buttons? (without gradient and blue border). Of course, I can do it with stylesheet, but I guess there is some more 'native' method without guesswork. Mar 01 21:37:52 divan: my qt buttons look very much like hildon buttons...tho im using plastik dark black theme, so maybe that makes a difference Mar 01 21:38:32 ZogG: what's heppininin Mar 01 21:39:05 MohammadAG can you please try to build something for me for maemo? Mar 01 21:39:23 pupnik, nothing, do you use xmms2 on maemo? Mar 01 21:39:34 i didedid! Mar 01 21:39:49 long time ago at least Mar 01 21:39:54 it's wierd nicolai is using gtk for developing =) Mar 01 21:40:05 no, it's not :) Mar 01 21:40:21 Gtk is faster than Qt (at least for startup) Mar 01 21:40:33 it's not Mar 01 21:40:42 it's just a fact that gtk is already loaded into memory Mar 01 21:40:45 yes Mar 01 21:40:47 but if you load them from nothing Mar 01 21:40:53 qt will be faster Mar 01 21:41:00 should've made myself clear Mar 01 21:41:05 Gtk is faster than Qt (at least for startup), on Maemo 5 Mar 01 21:41:26 the only thing I've seen launcher faster, even on Maemo 5, is my media player rewrite Mar 01 21:41:34 the UI shows up faster than Nokia's one Mar 01 21:41:40 wow Mar 01 21:41:45 that's pretty fast Mar 01 21:41:55 I'd say Nokia's UI is slow :P Mar 01 21:42:10 compared to what? Mar 01 21:42:16 to my rewrite Mar 01 21:42:20 duh Mar 01 21:42:29 if I recompile a desktop widget, how would I go about loading the new one without rebooting? Mar 01 21:42:37 MohammadAG, your code is green. Mar 01 21:42:46 merlin1991, open the .desktop file, save it, close it Mar 01 21:42:48 all new code is faster than the system standard Mar 01 21:42:51 actually, you just need to save it Mar 01 21:42:53 MohammadAG: tested with another Qt application already running? Mar 01 21:42:53 see fapman vs ham Mar 01 21:43:04 lcuk, HAM is threaded, it's epically fast on a PC Mar 01 21:43:09 once fapman gets all hte checks and balances in etc Mar 01 21:43:17 MohammadAG, yes :) Mar 01 21:43:21 part of the reason GTK applications start faster could be that GTK is loaded at boot, but Qt is very likely not loaded already Mar 01 21:43:23 but a pc is not an n900 Mar 01 21:43:27 true Mar 01 21:43:43 I wish Qt would be loaded into memory Mar 01 21:44:06 MohammadAG does he made mediaplayer as well? Mar 01 21:44:07 readahead can preload it Mar 01 21:44:16 but it will be quickly replaced Mar 01 21:44:19 ZogG, no, I said _my_ rewrite for a reason Mar 01 21:44:21 FASTER CODE!! Mar 01 21:44:36 he did make the Mafw wrappers though Mar 01 21:44:39 what's it written in? Mar 01 21:44:40 C? Mar 01 21:44:44 Qt Mar 01 21:44:50 i.e C++ Mar 01 21:45:09 some may argue that Qt is not C++, anyway... Mar 01 21:45:39 Qt apps don't *have* to be written in C++... Mar 01 21:45:45 yes Mar 01 21:45:53 They can be written in PyQt Mar 01 21:45:53 for Qt preload check out KDE Mar 01 21:45:54 but saying that a native c++ Qt app is not really C++ is a little silly, imho Mar 01 21:46:07 BCMM, but accessing the API using anything other than C++ compiler is troublesome Mar 01 21:46:21 * DocScrutinizer wonders idly if maemo/meego will adopt such scheme Mar 01 21:46:22 I left PyQt, it's too slow Mar 01 21:46:23 BCMM, there are many documented writeups about Qt Mar 01 21:46:27 lcuk: i wouldn't know; never used any of the bindings Mar 01 21:46:29 MohammadAG: some may argue, but i bet they'd be wrong ;) Mar 01 21:46:32 since it uses the MOC stuff Mar 01 21:46:36 DocScrutinizer, I think MeeGo does it Mar 01 21:46:45 but there seem to be plenty of perfectly good KDE plasmoids in python Mar 01 21:47:17 yes, there is clever moc stuff and so on, but in the end you can call other C++ APIs perfectly normally from a Qt application, and so on Mar 01 21:47:18 I wonder if Qt preload can be hacked in Mar 01 21:47:23 MohammadAG yeah i know about your rewrite but faster than nicolai's what than? Mar 01 21:47:36 ZogG, I said Nokia's, not nicolai's Mar 01 21:47:40 :nod: seeing meamo doing same thing via maemolaucnher Mar 01 21:47:48 for GTK? Mar 01 21:48:05 ah, so that's what maemo-launcher does? Mar 01 21:48:12 MohammadAG: of course, if nothing else worked you could just have a Qt application run and instantly quit on startup... Mar 01 21:48:25 MohammadAG oh Mar 01 21:48:26 that's... it? Mar 01 21:48:37 now it makes sence Mar 01 21:48:40 doesn't it have to stay in memory? Mar 01 21:48:46 err /usr/bin/maemo-invoker Mar 01 21:48:49 i'll ask Nokia or Nicolai to change the name Mar 01 21:48:57 I'd guess yes, that'S what it does Mar 01 21:49:01 don't bother, NokSoft :P Mar 01 21:49:14 MsNokla Mar 01 21:49:42 BCMM, if a Qt is already running, then it sure as hell beats the stock mediaplayer Mar 01 21:50:18 MohammadAG: clearly, the best way for you to improve your media player would be to port H-D to Qt. :) Mar 01 21:50:39 MohammadAG: start mediaplayer from a `LDPRELOAD=qtfoo,qtbar xterm` Mar 01 21:51:04 what goes in place of qtfoo? :P Mar 01 21:51:15 your QT libs.so Mar 01 21:51:19 ah Mar 01 21:51:32 i was thinking that preloading is a total waste of resources, but it actually wouldn't be if it was an optional thing that you install if use have a lot of Qt applications Mar 01 21:51:55 yeah Mar 01 21:52:01 so xterm has a link to those libs and loaded them, and (I hope) any child of xterm will inherit Mar 01 21:52:02 for one app, it's obviously a waste Mar 01 21:52:11 i'd certainly love to be able to launch FCamera faster; it starts slow enough to permit things to run away Mar 01 21:53:09 at the stupidest level, it could be a very minimal Qt application that runs in the background and does nothing Mar 01 21:53:25 MohammadAG: sure, but that'S not how /usr/bin/maemo-invoker works Mar 01 21:53:47 2s till the UI shows Mar 01 21:54:03 Nokia's takes 4s Mar 01 21:54:10 and uses maemo-launcher :) Mar 01 21:54:36 bergie: that was an interesting blogpost! thank you! :) Mar 01 21:55:49 MohammadAG: well, wait with bragging til your MP is feature-complete Mar 01 21:55:55 Controlling your bladder makes you better at controlling yourself when making decisions about your future, too, according to a study to be published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science. Mar 01 21:56:12 DocScrutinizer, it already lists songs and videos at startup Mar 01 21:56:28 something the stock player doesn't do (it only lists them when you click Songs or Videos) Mar 01 21:57:01 and Mafw is DBus-based, all calls are based on signals and so shouldn't block the UI Mar 01 21:57:31 hmm, still genuine MP might "preload" aka initialize objects for subscreens, so you as well have to check how fast yours is for e.g. switching to audioplayer or videoplayer, compared to original Mar 01 21:57:44 well, true that Mar 01 21:57:58 I'm not sure how to implement the video player part, never worked with video Mar 01 22:24:41 anyway tell me when it learned to display current playlist, and to list videos as textlist with full title rather than thumbnails of random scenes out of the video Mar 01 22:24:53 I'm eager to give it a real test Mar 01 22:26:03 uh, and search of course Mar 01 22:26:21 heh Mar 01 22:26:35 preferrably file hirarchy view Mar 01 22:27:43 I'm quite capable of moving my mp3 to the right subdirectory, and I don't want to lose that info introduced by that sorting work Mar 01 22:28:45 if only someone with gstreamer skills could modify mafw-gst-renderer to include gapless playback Mar 01 22:28:54 I'll try to work on the mediaplayer in the morning Mar 01 22:32:18 MohammadAG: that'd be really sweet yes Mar 01 22:36:40 gapless mafw-gst-renderer(whatever that is) isn't a patch or tweak, but a mayor redesign, for all I know Mar 01 22:37:51 DocScrutinizer, it's a patch Mar 01 22:37:56 aiui the whole concept of gstreamer is basing on one pipe setup per file to playback Mar 01 22:38:00 Nokia's using playbin2 Mar 01 22:38:05 in mafw Mar 01 22:38:15 playbin2 somehow supports gapless playback Mar 01 22:38:38 so we need to listen to the about-to-finish signal and pass the next item to the sink Mar 01 22:39:07 umm Mar 01 22:39:50 next item would be currentItem()+1 from the currently assigned playlist Mar 01 22:42:53 if it wasn't *that* boring to me, I'd check the PIDs of all the processes involved in playback of a song, then see if they change for next song, I.E. if any of those processes terminates when the current song is finished Mar 01 22:43:30 obviously starting a new process means there's a massive obstacle for clickfree gapless Mar 01 22:43:39 yeah Mar 01 22:43:50 and a massive laziness while coding Mar 01 22:44:08 ideally, mafw should use one sink for all Mar 01 22:44:21 well, a sink for audio and a sink for video Mar 01 22:44:52 yeah, but that's not what the gstreamer concept looks alike, for all I've seen about it Mar 01 23:05:57 actually htop with [x]show threads, [x]different color for threads, F5(tree) is rather nice to watch abominations like 1 main and 7 hidden threads for PA, while NOT playing any audio Mar 01 23:09:48 well /usr/sbin/browserd -s 3327 -n RTComMessagingS isn't any better :-D, 1 main and 6 hidden, /usr/sbin/browserd -d even 2 visible childs and sigma 12 child threads Mar 01 23:10:07 these are pthreads Mar 01 23:10:13 yo Mar 01 23:10:17 otherwise called light treads Mar 01 23:10:25 can anyone get soundcloud.com to work on their n900? Mar 01 23:10:38 not anything to be too worried about Mar 01 23:10:46 pa itself is a problem Mar 01 23:10:53 yoh Mar 01 23:11:51 well, actually pthreads aren't especially greedy or hogging Mar 01 23:13:08 anyway, just interesting, and if I could be arsed to lift it and move it over to N900 to playback some songs via mediaplayer, this htop display would probably tell us some interesting story Mar 01 23:17:54 well, /usr/bin/mafw-dbus-wrapper mafw-gst-renderer 10..14% CPU, /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority 19..25% Mar 01 23:24:51 all threads together it's more like 14..19% and 25..35% Mar 01 23:28:03 @250Mhz (95.8%) though Mar 01 23:28:17 <_0x47> anyone here who could give me a hint on SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE? Mar 01 23:28:58 <_0x47> !rape DocScrutinizer Mar 01 23:29:06 <_0x47> ~rape DocScrutinizer Mar 01 23:29:06 * infobot takes DocScrutinizer behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams Mar 01 23:29:10 <_0x47> haha Mar 01 23:30:26 <_0x47> well nn then Mar 01 23:31:43 hello all ;-) Mar 01 23:32:17 is Maemo only use by the N900 smartphone ? Mar 01 23:32:23 yes Mar 01 23:32:29 no Mar 01 23:32:31 well Mar 01 23:32:54 it's also used by N8x0 tablets Mar 01 23:33:05 which aren't exactly smartphones Mar 01 23:33:21 an older version of maemo though Mar 01 23:33:35 770! Mar 01 23:34:05 ok i don't know this tablets ^^ Mar 01 23:35:30 Spydemon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N800 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N810 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_770 Mar 01 23:35:52 javispedro: I was saucy to ignore 770 :-P Mar 01 23:36:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N950 Mar 01 23:36:36 hmm Mar 01 23:36:39 as I'm not even sure if those ran maemo X-D Mar 01 23:36:43 * SpeedEvil ponders lullage. Mar 01 23:36:46 LOL Mar 01 23:37:20 Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name - MEH Mar 01 23:39:54 DocScrutinizer: yes, 770 ran Maemo Mar 01 23:40:57 thought it's been SCO unix or sth ;-P Mar 01 23:41:12 minix Mar 01 23:42:17 i'm interested in the N900 buying, principally for Maemo, but i have understand that his developpement is more and more slower Mar 01 23:42:46 it's the same about his community ? ^^ Mar 01 23:42:46 Ultrix-11 Mar 01 23:42:47 bs, he's growing moustache every day Mar 01 23:45:19 Spydemon: it's not getting slower, it matures Mar 01 23:45:24 seems that our little friend abill_uk got tired of pestering in the omap "swap in upgrade" thread and now wants wp7 on his non-upgraded n900. Mar 01 23:45:40 swap in upgrade? Mar 01 23:45:42 mehehe Mar 01 23:45:59 omap3640 Mar 01 23:46:00 Oh - upgrading the omap? Mar 01 23:46:23 You can in principle upgrade to the faster speed grade of the current processor. Mar 01 23:46:38 But I really doubt the 36 would be pin compatibl Mar 01 23:46:40 with a pile of 3 512MB POPs Mar 01 23:47:00 oh, come to think of it Mar 01 23:47:10 there's actually a newer speed grade of the current processor -- the omap3440 Mar 01 23:47:17 yeah Mar 01 23:47:21 720MHz? Mar 01 23:47:30 WOOOOOW¡ Mar 01 23:47:37 * javispedro checks Mar 01 23:47:45 wikipedia says 800Mhz Mar 01 23:47:45 oh - 800 Mar 01 23:47:58 WOOOooooooOOOOOOOOooooooOOOOoooooOOoOooooooOOW¡ Mar 01 23:48:18 BRING IN ABILL_UK -- I NEED HIS MAD COW SKILLS! Mar 01 23:48:28 * DocScrutinizer cackles Mar 01 23:49:54 ow if it turned out new N900 are equipped with 3440 just for the availability of chips, that'd be news Mar 01 23:49:59 Now* Mar 01 23:50:13 alas I think there are no new N900 Mar 01 23:50:18 :( Mar 01 23:50:20 It's called the n950 :) Mar 01 23:50:46 omfg Mar 01 23:52:15 I want my omap5! Mar 01 23:52:26 4 ARM cores, dual-channel DDR3 Mar 01 23:53:40 Assymetric multicore would be realy interesting. Mar 01 23:53:59 well, omap is pretty much that Mar 01 23:54:21 I mean assumetric multicore, with them binary compatible. Mar 01 23:54:32 Say a core tuned for low power. Mar 01 23:54:38 I'll certainly buy a N900 soon, so i would may be join you in the Maemo community :-) Mar 01 23:55:14 Spydemon: it's dying community Mar 01 23:55:19 Or with soft instructions that gcc doesn't use. Mar 01 23:55:23 could we change that "don't use /usr/share/applications/hildon" ticket to a comprehensive "fix your .desktop sh*t, Nokia!"? Comment: Don't use hildon subdir, don't use version=57.1337 as 1.0 is the only valid value, don't use name=tana_fi_foo_bar_micmacmucx style getttext.po shit in .desktop and stick to freedesktop L10n Mar 01 23:55:29 Spydemon: wait until everything clarifies Mar 01 23:55:30 * divan going to buy second N900 ) Mar 01 23:55:37 Spydemon: like for example n950 is release Mar 01 23:55:40 released* Mar 01 23:56:15 DocScrutinizer: woot? Mar 01 23:56:25 i'm pretty sure normal l10n was working as well Mar 01 23:57:27 jacekowski: one cmd to explain it all: less /usr/share/applications/hildon/modest.desktop Mar 01 23:58:07 jacekowski, N950 seems to look uglier than N900 :-( Mar 01 23:58:33 Spydemon, nobody saw N950. Mar 01 23:59:00 so pictures on Internet are fake, okok Mar 01 23:59:15 The photos in internet articles are author's assumptions based on some Nokia leakes prototype pictures. Mar 01 23:59:27 Spydemon: n900 is not manufactured anymore Mar 01 23:59:30 Spydemon: not supported Mar 01 23:59:32 s/leakes/leaked/ Mar 01 23:59:33 divan meant: The photos in internet articles are author's assumptions based on some Nokia leaked prototype pictures. Mar 02 00:00:02 Spydemon: and without nokia support platform will die in couple months Mar 02 00:00:41 jacekowski, it's sade.. :-( Mar 02 00:00:52 jacekowski: that's not entirely correct. You still get same amount of support you got a year ago, hell you even get a newer OS, and for sure you still can buy unused "new" N900 Mar 02 00:00:59 Spydemon, it will not die. I don't agree with jacekowski. Mar 02 00:01:49 * DocScrutinizer neither Mar 02 00:03:13 Spydemon: just make absolutely clear on your expectations. Don't buy the device for what it might (or most likely will not) become eventually - check if it meets your needs today Mar 02 00:03:53 yeah Mar 02 00:03:56 nokia maps Mar 02 00:04:10 don't hope for a bright future if the present isn't what you like Mar 02 00:04:24 future will be only darker Mar 02 00:04:42 my phone broke down last week and and i was interested by the N900. So it's a good idea or not ? I didn't have the time to wait until N950 come out :x Mar 02 00:04:47 not exactly much darker, but for sure not much brighter either Mar 02 00:05:22 i need a regular smartphone Mar 02 00:05:28 If I hadn't already two of them, I'd buy another N900 tomorrow. Hell, I might do anyway Mar 02 00:05:30 If I was in themarket for a new phone, the only one that would suit me is then900. Mar 02 00:05:31 not more, not less Mar 02 00:05:47 The n900 does not have any fart apps. Mar 02 00:06:12 N900 is all but a regular smartphone Mar 02 00:07:04 it's more like the smallest 600MHz laptop with a cheesy phone built in Mar 02 00:08:28 if you're in for a "regular smartphone" then get an iPhone or andridiot device Mar 02 00:11:10 duh, timeless_w7ip using a wp7 iphone? Mar 02 00:11:23 SpeedEvil, i know, N900 is the only phone that i know which work with an open source platform. And i'm able to make myself lot of software "for computer". So i hope that i will able to make some apps out for him Mar 02 00:12:12 so you're using linux on your "computer"? Mar 02 00:12:37 DocScrutinizer, yes Mar 02 00:12:43 Archlinux Mar 02 00:12:48 so you'll probably love N900 Mar 02 00:12:49 if you know ^^ Mar 02 00:13:05 DocScrutinizer: my guess: "windows 7 IdeaPad" Mar 02 00:13:08 aka the lenovo table Mar 02 00:13:11 *tablet Mar 02 00:13:17 *cough* Mar 02 00:13:56 i hope the SDK is good x) Mar 02 00:14:04 what sdk Mar 02 00:14:13 maemo sdk Mar 02 00:14:29 they just point you to gcc! that should be enough! Mar 02 00:14:30 yes maemo sdk for n900 Mar 02 00:15:39 maemo is pretty much a standard linux as far as it's about app development Mar 02 00:17:21 X, bash, gcc, all you're used to. Of course you need some crosscompiling setup which is usually scratchbox for maemo Mar 02 00:18:44 does scratchbox support custom paths for it's chroot environment? Mar 02 00:19:23 because it took to much space on my root partition, I tend to keep that small and throw all kind of stuff in /home and /opt wich are on different partitions Mar 02 00:20:00 the rest is about Qt and some special libs for special mobile phone things: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Alarm_Framework Mar 02 00:20:07 /scratchbox can also be a mount point Mar 02 00:20:07 DocScrutinizer, yes but it exist a library specific for the N900 for catching key press or, for use the vibrator for exemple, aren't ? Mar 02 00:20:32 no because key presses come the standard way, and no because the vibrator can't be used by apps =) Mar 02 00:21:33 with Maemo we can't use the phone's vibrator ?? Mar 02 00:21:35 catching keys is done like on every linux system, usually via X. Vibrator there's a process called mce that controlls it, you talk to mce via dbus to make vibrator start Mar 02 00:21:57 okok :-) Mar 02 00:22:45 You can definatly use the vibrator, look in the mce-dev package to see the right dbus calls to make Mar 02 00:23:09 that's hardly use -- you're talking about patterns et all? Mar 02 00:24:02 well, you are free to directly access /sys/vib/brightness, but that will probably only work for short clicks as mce will shut it off again Mar 02 00:24:56 Check MCE_START_MANUAL_VIBRATION Mar 02 00:25:08 errr wut? Mar 02 00:25:11 DocScrutinizer: exactly Mar 02 00:25:29 undocumented feature via dbus or what? Mar 02 00:25:53 (this is one of the usecases I've added to the mce bug report.... Linux has a quite nice API for vibrators. The MCE one isn't) Mar 02 00:26:32 MCE_START_MANUAL_VIBRATION is documented in the mce-dev package Mar 02 00:26:45 jonwil: what is it? Mar 02 00:27:06 read the mce-dev header to see what it is :) Mar 02 00:27:15 :-S Mar 02 00:27:57 tell me the cmdline you used to verify it works on maemo5 Mar 02 00:28:26 thank for your answers. I'll go to bed now. It's late in France :-P Mar 02 00:28:38 bye all, i'll see you soon ;-) Mar 02 00:28:39 yw Mar 02 00:29:01 thanks ;-) Mar 02 00:29:32 I havent tested it but its definatly present in the Maemo5 vibrator code Mar 02 00:29:55 mmmpf Mar 02 00:30:56 DocScrutinizer: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_start_manual_vibration int32:255 int32:1500 Mar 02 00:31:39 Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "req_start_manual_vibration" with signature "ii" on interface "com.nokia.mce.request" doesn't exist Mar 02 00:31:57 there you have. Mar 02 00:32:13 hi guys Mar 02 00:32:24 i am having a settings doubt on N900,,, Mar 02 00:32:35 any one pls help me on it Mar 02 00:32:53 i need help on activating gprs settings Mar 02 00:33:02 ~ask Mar 02 00:33:02 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Mar 02 00:33:31 can anyone tell me how to find destinations option under connectivity menu Mar 02 00:33:49 because i need to set up free mobile web from my mobile provider Mar 02 00:34:08 errr Mar 02 00:34:22 do u know about it doc? Mar 02 00:34:34 bcoz i am surfing thru the net for days to find it Mar 02 00:34:41 pls help me wit it Mar 02 00:34:51 I thought I know how to set up GPRS, but I don't understand your problem (yet?) Mar 02 00:35:14 please report the steps you took Mar 02 00:35:32 Nokia n 900 go to Menu and then to the settings> Connectivity> Destinations> New AN type Pocket internet Account name: lycamobile Access Point Name: data.lycamobile.co.uk user name : lmuk password : plus Authentication type: normal proxy: no proxy address: proxy port: home page: www.lycamobile.com. Mar 02 00:35:35 I'll holler as soon as something isn't correct Mar 02 00:35:41 oh. Mar 02 00:35:50 thats the settings that i have to input on my mobile,, Mar 02 00:36:15 but i am struck after getting through settings and connectivity,,i could not find destinations,, Mar 02 00:36:24 DocScrutinizer: vibrator thing works on mine :P (PR1.3?) Mar 02 00:36:35 :nod: Mar 02 00:36:52 can u understand me now, mr.doc Mar 02 00:37:21 Sujith: trying to duplicate your steps Mar 02 00:37:46 * javispedro ponders if I could map the simpler effects on top of this dbus api Mar 02 00:37:49 ok sure,, Mar 02 00:38:12 bah, the MCE vibrator plugin is too complex to reverse engineer :( And there is no vibrator code in the MeeGo MCE tree to study :( Mar 02 00:38:21 try finding the destination option under your connectivity ,,, Mar 02 00:39:21 settings, internetconections, (menu with "automatic" "interval 10min" "[x] connect WLAN if available" shows) -> click "connections" Mar 02 00:39:40 jonwil: but... why??? I do not think what it does is a secret, it's just missing someone with time to code it. Mar 02 00:39:57 Its doing more than just simple vibrator activation Mar 02 00:40:12 patterns, and ... ? Mar 02 00:40:24 ya,,,i just done what you have said,, Mar 02 00:40:29 Sujith: from the list of connections select the one with two arrows in a white circle Mar 02 00:40:50 if there's none, select "new" and GPRS Mar 02 00:40:54 yeah,,i did it ,,i selected the one you told Mar 02 00:41:13 do i have to edit it or press done ? Mar 02 00:41:17 select "edit" Mar 02 00:41:33 yeah,,done,,, Mar 02 00:41:37 next step ? Mar 02 00:41:48 Connection name: "jadhjahjökh " connection type: packet data shows Mar 02 00:42:14 chose a nice name for your GPRS connection Mar 02 00:42:15 yeah ,,done that too Mar 02 00:42:23 i think my name would be very nice Mar 02 00:42:24 click "continue" Mar 02 00:43:09 enter APN name, username, password, as you got told by your carrier/provider Mar 02 00:43:35 yeah,,,everything so far done as mentioned by my provider, Mar 02 00:43:40 quite frequently username and password are empty, or both are "internet" or sth like that Mar 02 00:43:48 do i have to go to advanced settings Mar 02 00:43:57 or just press finish Mar 02 00:44:02 usually not. should just work Mar 02 00:44:09 sure,,will give a try Mar 02 00:44:13 press finish and test it Mar 02 00:44:52 should i allow data roaming or not? Mar 02 00:45:34 err, where's that choice? Mar 02 00:46:03 when i just selected the connection,,it is asking for '' allow data roaming '' yes or no Mar 02 00:46:20 i have to proceed this step to get connected,i think Mar 02 00:46:41 heh, so you're not in your SIM card's home network Mar 02 00:47:14 data roaming usually is A) expensive and/or B) doesn't work at all Mar 02 00:47:40 no no,,,i am in the limits of the provider,, Mar 02 00:48:46 yeah,,i did it,,, Mar 02 00:48:52 its connected,,, Mar 02 00:49:32 thanks a lot for your help mr.doc,,, Mar 02 00:49:37 in settings - phone you can select network ( "auto", "manual") On "manual" you can forbid roaming, so data wouldn't roam either Mar 02 00:50:01 i am very glad that i got helped by this forum,,thanx a lot to this forum,, Mar 02 00:50:15 yw Mar 02 00:50:46 this is an IRC Mar 02 00:50:47 o_o Mar 02 00:51:07 can i install new themes to my mobile,, Mar 02 00:51:14 yes Mar 02 00:51:24 and my phone is quite slow,,, Mar 02 00:51:34 is there any way i can make it fast,, Mar 02 00:51:52 don't start too many apps at once Mar 02 00:51:52 slow in the sense,,,while closing applications, Mar 02 00:52:15 oh ,,,thats right,,i do start too many apps,,,i should avoid it,,thanx Mar 02 00:52:16 esp don't keep browser open Mar 02 00:52:53 one more thing is that,,i tried to install Sleep Analyser application Mar 02 00:53:08 i could just download it,,,but while installation,,it says some files missing Mar 02 00:53:17 and i couldnt continue installation Mar 02 00:53:18 it's a hoax, and I never tried it. So sorry can't help Mar 02 00:53:32 oh its ok ,,,no probs,, Mar 02 00:53:43 i just installed a theme,, Mar 02 00:53:50 and i dont know where it got installed Mar 02 00:54:03 settings - themes Mar 02 00:54:26 oh yeah,,i got it,,thanx again,, Mar 02 00:55:09 time for 12648430 ☕ Mar 02 00:55:20 i am getting 10 mb free everyday,, Mar 02 00:55:43 should suffice for basics Mar 02 00:55:48 usually a web page is just 10 kb,,is that ri8 Mar 02 00:55:56 depends Mar 02 00:56:03 oh ok ok,, Mar 02 00:56:17 some are incredibly huge just for the shiny shit Mar 02 00:56:27 hehehe,,thats right too Mar 02 00:56:47 by the way,,are you a forum member,,,or just a guest like me,, Mar 02 00:56:59 because u seem to know almost everything,mr.doc Mar 02 00:57:08 you can check data volume used, in xterm: ifconfig Mar 02 00:57:25 we are al just guests here Mar 02 00:57:41 oh thats fantastic,, Mar 02 00:57:50 how to check the data i used,, Mar 02 00:58:05 if i type ifconfig in xterminal it says not found Mar 02 00:58:07 you got rootsh installed? Mar 02 00:58:19 no,,i dont think so,, Mar 02 00:58:39 install rootsh, in xterm type 'root' Mar 02 00:58:48 i have just installed many silly games,,can you tell me how to remove it,,, Mar 02 00:58:55 the ifconfig works -take care, you're root then Mar 02 00:59:13 same way you installed them Mar 02 00:59:44 oh ok,,so application manager does that trick,,i am clear..thanks again Mar 02 00:59:49 start app manager, left of the 3 choices is "installed apps" Mar 02 01:00:04 but,,the root u guided me to install doesnt work Mar 02 01:00:10 it again say not found ,,, Mar 02 01:00:26 in appmanager install package "rootsh" Mar 02 01:00:43 then maybe reboot (dunno if that's needed) Mar 02 01:00:52 then in xterm type root Mar 02 01:01:33 i cant find rootsh in app.manager Mar 02 01:01:41 errrm Mar 02 01:01:43 i hav only few apps left to install Mar 02 01:02:05 you need extras catalog Mar 02 01:02:25 and you need an update if extras isn't enabled by default Mar 02 01:02:37 yeah,,i dont have extras.. Mar 02 01:03:04 what's your system version? (settings - about product) Mar 02 01:03:18 cool,,i ll search now and give you Mar 02 01:03:22 or productinfo Mar 02 01:03:48 Version : 10.2010 Mar 02 01:04:02 more please Mar 02 01:04:12 yeah Mar 02 01:04:22 10.2010.19-1.003 Mar 02 01:04:30 thats the thing,,, Mar 02 01:04:33 that's PR1.2 Mar 02 01:04:38 oh Mar 02 01:04:42 what does that mean,, Mar 02 01:04:52 should be fine, dunno why your extras repo is disabled Mar 02 01:05:06 PR1.3 is recent version Mar 02 01:05:18 I'm on PR1.2 as well here Mar 02 01:05:21 can i update to the latest version Mar 02 01:05:31 you probably should do that Mar 02 01:05:42 how could i do that,,,mr.doc.. Mar 02 01:06:10 appmanager, updates, maemo-bla-bla system update Mar 02 01:06:37 better do that on wifi tho i guess... :) Mar 02 01:06:39 you'll want to uninstall all that games crap prior to that, so it has enough free space Mar 02 01:06:59 yes, definitely not a good idea to run update over GPRS Mar 02 01:07:16 yeah,, Mar 02 01:07:20 its pretty slow,, Mar 02 01:07:26 anyway, for now you could just enable extras catalog, and install rootsh Mar 02 01:07:29 and as u said,,i hav a lot of crap games Mar 02 01:07:45 and i should remove those,, Mar 02 01:08:02 * DocScrutinizer afk, bbl Mar 02 01:09:31 is ther any better things to do with N900 ? Mar 02 01:09:46 any tips to keep the phone last long time ? Mar 02 01:10:27 don't play n900fly. Mar 02 01:10:34 take care about your USB, or it will break and destroy the phone Mar 02 01:10:49 disconnect from network when not in use, dont keep unneeded apps running, etc Mar 02 01:10:51 sorry i heard your warning aa bit late,, Mar 02 01:10:57 i broke the USB plate Mar 02 01:11:01 and i am struggling,, Mar 02 01:11:12 is ther any way i can sort it out,, Mar 02 01:11:15 play angry birds Mar 02 01:12:28 doc,, are you there,, Mar 02 01:14:06 is there anyone ,,who could help me,, because my USB plate is broken in my N900 Mar 02 01:14:19 can anyone help me with a suggestion Mar 02 01:14:33 If its broken, you will probably need to take it to Nokia to get it fixed Mar 02 01:14:46 or send it to Nokia if there is no Nokia Care facility in your area Mar 02 01:15:31 Sujith, you came into channel about half an hour ago asking about gprs Mar 02 01:15:31 but i bought bak in india,,and the warranty is limited in india only,,, Mar 02 01:15:42 and now i am in UK now,, Mar 02 01:15:50 not about your usb (which I would guess would take priority) Mar 02 01:16:03 how come you only mention usb after doc brought it up? Mar 02 01:16:17 sorry lcuk,,i couldnt get you Mar 02 01:16:33 well talking about games and connections and stuff Mar 02 01:16:45 are assuming your device happily charges Mar 02 01:16:53 can u help me with that broken USB stick Mar 02 01:16:58 if my usb were broken and did not charge, i would not be messing with games Mar 02 01:17:26 Sujith, jonwil just answered Mar 02 01:17:30 the only answer there is Mar 02 01:17:40 i have a limited warranty problem too Mar 02 01:18:04 that i can repair back in india where i bought,,, but onw in UK Mar 02 01:18:08 so what is up with your usb Mar 02 01:18:14 what symptoms do you have Mar 02 01:18:24 i couldnt do anything with the USB Mar 02 01:18:38 either charging or data transfer,, Mar 02 01:18:43 like what? Mar 02 01:18:46 right Mar 02 01:18:50 did it ever work? Mar 02 01:19:22 it never worked for two months,,because i was bit playful wit the USB stick,,plugging and unplugging often Mar 02 01:19:32 so it got broken Mar 02 01:20:08 well then go and be playful with the repair people Mar 02 01:20:31 heheheh,,,cool,,, Mar 02 01:20:49 do you know will it work if i just replace the USB plate in a local shop Mar 02 01:21:04 and will the replacement last long Mar 02 01:21:08 If you can find someone who can fix it with the right part, it should work Mar 02 01:21:12 I can consult my crystal ball for you if you like. Mar 02 01:21:14 but you will loose any warranty you have Mar 02 01:21:26 How long the replacement lasts depends on how rough you are with it Mar 02 01:21:35 and how good the replacment part is Mar 02 01:21:59 oh thaks jonwil,,, Mar 02 01:22:20 thanx 4 d info guys,,,, Mar 02 01:22:43 this forum really helped a lot,,,thanx to the organiser and maemo support,,, Mar 02 01:22:46 i appreciate that,, Mar 02 01:54:10 meh, he's gone Mar 02 01:54:26 was about to suggest http://www.nokia.co.uk/support/repair/repair/warranty Mar 02 01:55:58 there WILL BE a n950 Mar 02 01:56:00 nokia announced Mar 02 01:56:05 uhuh Mar 02 01:56:10 with Meego, of course Mar 02 01:56:12 very nice Mar 02 01:56:17 [citation needed] Mar 02 01:56:45 At this point, nothing short of a device I can buy is going to make any real difference :P Mar 02 01:56:49 they're talking about this year's "meego" device that elop mentioned half a month ago Mar 02 01:56:59 CTO Rich Green said that during the Nokia Developer Day Mar 02 01:57:19 http://www.gsmarena.com/nokias_meego_device_will_be_called_n950_will_be_out_this_year-news-2372.php Mar 02 01:57:23 at MWC. I was there..... Mar 02 01:57:50 I guess that has been more in the past than just yesterday - so it's obsolete, forget it Mar 02 01:58:22 well elop mentioned it post elopcalypse Mar 02 01:58:58 the "n950" name, and even it being a phone is just the press adding their crap and speculatino over the facts. Mar 02 02:00:13 eeeeew "interesting UI" - I feel sick Mar 02 02:00:35 I think a sequal to the N900 would be a very popular device amongst geeks Mar 02 02:00:46 One with better hardware and running MeeGo Mar 02 02:02:38 jonwil: say it's basically identical to n900 but with 1ghz cpu, ~512MB ram, slightly better display and keyboard -- what pricepoint do you think would sell well? Mar 02 02:03:10 no idea Mar 02 02:03:17 700 euro / usd? Mar 02 02:03:17 anyway I'd buy it. Mar 02 02:03:54 *burp* Mar 02 02:04:01 500? Mar 02 02:04:08 c-ts, who's holding the bet? Mar 02 02:04:24 shitty crappy c-ts Mar 02 02:04:27 7000 euro Mar 02 02:04:43 it will come with a gold chassis and a free wp7 device. Mar 02 02:04:52 or two. Mar 02 02:04:59 ok, javispedro 7000 on non-c Mar 02 02:05:41 well I didn't actually want to hold that bet, but will be happy to pay you 7000 Bison dollars if it is non capacitive =) Mar 02 02:06:13 bison dollars 8-o Mar 02 02:06:57 aka 0% chance it is anything other than a lame capacitive screen. Mar 02 02:06:59 bizarre dollons? Mar 02 02:07:50 it appears to me that capacitive is better for scrolling things Mar 02 02:08:00 meh Mar 02 02:08:03 bah Mar 02 02:08:08 I think the N900 touchscreen is good Mar 02 02:08:10 I like it Mar 02 02:08:29 I still perffer physical keyboard for typing stuff though Mar 02 02:08:30 it only takes me a couple of minutes to adapt to n900 screen from capacitive Mar 02 02:08:43 plus n900 works with gloves and stylii Mar 02 02:09:10 stantum FTW, screw capacitive Mar 02 02:09:47 pupnik: ...and fingernails! Mar 02 02:09:48 the resistive seems to be more power-user to me Mar 02 02:11:32 only use of a capacitive is to sacrifice half of screen for a touchpad function to move a mouse cursor in the other half Mar 02 02:12:11 but then I'd prefer to have that touchpad on the read of device Mar 02 02:12:19 rear* Mar 02 02:14:39 jonwil: btw, read that the vibra thing does work? Mar 02 02:14:47 yeah Mar 02 02:15:08 I think I will be able to map the simplest of the SDL effects into that... Mar 02 02:15:20 (aka 1 CONSTANT) Mar 02 02:15:20 md5sum /sbin/mce Mar 02 02:15:36 DocScrutinizer: you're on PR1.2? Mar 02 02:15:50 DocScrutinizer: can you dpkg -l mce Mar 02 02:15:51 IroN900:~# mce --version Mar 02 02:15:52 mce v1.8.118 Mar 02 02:16:14 ;-D Mar 02 02:16:18 @since v1.8.18 :P Mar 02 02:16:59 errr, now is .18 > .118 or what? Mar 02 02:17:08 nfc Mar 02 02:17:15 but I have 1.8.126 Mar 02 02:17:20 eeew Mar 02 02:17:28 k Mar 02 02:17:34 friggin PR1.3 Mar 02 02:18:17 dammit I wish I had more free time.. Mar 02 02:19:18 whats wrong with PR1.3? Mar 02 02:20:31 what's wrong with PR1.2! It doesn't restore anymore, as they managed to screw the repos (testing, devel) Mar 02 02:21:09 so I'm simply refusing to find out what's wrong with PR1.3, as PR1.2 just works for me Mar 02 02:22:10 and odds are I get a phone with fashinable new PR1.3 that's borked for daily phone usage to my metrics Mar 02 02:22:54 what was your gripe there? Mar 02 02:23:37 missing downgrade/restore Mar 02 02:25:23 * javispedro calls it a day Mar 02 02:25:27 cya Mar 02 02:25:32 And I wasn't able to find the moment with the mood to test backupmenu full image restore Mar 02 02:25:38 cya Mar 02 02:28:55 jonwil: backup app is useless if you got any apps installed from testing and/or devel, on PR1.2 Mar 02 02:31:06 for example alarmed, it nags me every day with an update that's not installable on PR1.2, so if I ever decide I want to go back from PR1.3 to PR1.2 I'd definitely lose that app Mar 02 02:33:55 they damn had to either fork the test and devel repo as they did with extras, or promote all apps from test/devel to extras-1.2 prior to rollout of the incompatible PR1.3 libs Mar 02 02:35:37 nota bene I'm not asking for updates of 1.2-devel apps, I just want a way to restore a 1.2 system the way it's supposed to work Mar 02 02:37:29 but Nokia, in their eternal wisdom, decided on pr1.2 users using testing / devel apps aren't worth a restore option any more, when they rolled out PR1.3 Mar 02 02:39:48 DocScrutinizer: you know what would be a good product? powerline-networking security cameras Mar 02 02:40:08 uh Mar 02 02:40:22 they're just not on the market Mar 02 02:40:33 yeah, strange Mar 02 02:41:27 just that crap you can eavesdrop with a babyphone Mar 02 02:41:56 or WLAN based IP cam, but no PL Mar 02 02:42:09 bnc / cctv type, wlan, ethneret Mar 02 02:43:29 PL-AP wallwarts also seem quite handy Mar 02 02:45:45 seems like a 'no-brainer' to make security-cam wallwarts Mar 02 02:51:12 indeed Mar 02 02:51:19 ~botsnack Mar 02 02:51:22 :), DocScrutinizer Mar 02 02:52:48 Shit Mar 02 02:52:53 I ordered a Nookcolor. Mar 02 02:52:59 That's wrong on several levels. Mar 02 02:53:15 lol Mar 02 02:53:33 what's that? a colored tire? Mar 02 02:54:02 DocScrutinizer: I hope not. Mar 02 02:54:08 Considering I just dumped $200 on it. Mar 02 02:54:20 that's not expensive Mar 02 02:54:32 meh, my car's tires were way more expensive Mar 02 02:54:38 Per tire? Mar 02 02:54:41 yup Mar 02 02:54:45 Nice car. Mar 02 02:54:49 What're you driving? Mar 02 02:55:20 285/45 Mar 02 02:55:35 >250km/h Mar 02 02:55:38 z Mar 02 02:55:41 ? Mar 02 02:55:54 ok that's expensive Mar 02 02:55:56 y I think Mar 02 02:56:19 when i was a kid 'h' was already high end :) Mar 02 02:56:50 oh an android tablet... Mar 02 02:57:53 well, got rid of that car. A pity but I found no oilfield in my garden... :-/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Mar 02 02:59:57 2011