**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 04 02:59:59 2011 Mar 04 04:23:00 hey all - has the linux "wipe" utility bene ported to maemo/n900 yet? Mar 04 04:29:19 MrPPS: wipe will not help you on flash media Mar 04 04:30:29 you only put wear stress on the media but it marks blocks as unused (without necessary deleting their content) and writes data to another block, wear leveling Mar 04 04:31:48 ah i see, so it effectively does nothing for flash? Mar 04 04:31:57 and therefore, would be just as secure with flash using rm -rf? Mar 04 04:32:23 it does .. it damages the flash :P Mar 04 04:32:29 yeah Mar 04 04:32:56 well if you wipe or write the flash disks size many times it eventually overwrites the data Mar 04 04:33:12 but since flash has limited overwrite cycles thats a bad idea Mar 04 04:33:33 better use an encrypted filesystem or something like that for the data Mar 04 04:34:01 yeah fair enough Mar 04 04:34:04 cool, thanks for the help :) Mar 04 04:47:37 Hello Mar 04 04:48:36 quick question: over a VNC connection, how come clicking on the "4 squares with top-left one falling off" icon (all applications) doesn't work? Mar 04 04:55:21 *sigh* bbl... Mar 04 05:23:09 has anyone else seen a crash with the Contacts app on the n900, where you add an address for a contact, and select the "Region", and choose anything, and it will just crash? Mar 04 05:26:06 how to run the contact apps from the command line? Mar 04 06:44:29 so, people complain about how long it takes for nokia to respond to bugs, right? Mar 04 06:44:30 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=346405 Mar 04 06:44:31 Bug 346405: was not found. Mar 04 06:44:33 * timeless_w7ip sighs Mar 04 06:44:35 yes dumb bot Mar 04 08:06:57 i want to install the cssu, do some packages from extras-devel conflict with it? for instance hildon-desktop_kinetic or hildon-desktop_double_column? Mar 04 09:07:35 any uboot expert here? cannot get uboot to load maemo at all, shr boots ok from uSD, can flash without any problems... Mar 04 09:07:51 after flashing default kernel, i can boot maemo ok Mar 04 09:08:32 have tried custom uboot, combined images, default power46 with uboot... Mar 04 09:08:45 still get stuck at "booting kernel..." Mar 04 09:09:03 are some modules or parameters required or what is it? Mar 04 09:18:12 modules need to match kernel. uBoot replaces kernel by a uboot+kernel hybrid Mar 04 09:18:25 Doc. Moorning. Mar 04 09:18:29 moo Mar 04 09:18:50 Doc: Any idea where this out-of-the-blue Meego DE announcement came from? Mar 04 09:19:04 ?? Mar 04 09:19:10 Why such a sudden generosity? Mar 04 09:19:39 http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/481839.html Mar 04 09:19:41 no clue what U r talking bout Mar 04 09:19:46 see above Mar 04 09:21:30 NFC Mar 04 09:21:39 is it worth anything? Mar 04 09:26:23 Morning Mar 04 09:28:32 DocScrutinizer: hmm, my kernel matches, at least i think it does. Mar 04 09:28:47 as if i flash it directly, it boots Mar 04 09:28:54 vanous: I installed PK46+uBoot via HAM, and it worked Mar 04 09:29:08 nogo here Mar 04 09:29:29 normal pk46 boots ok for me Mar 04 09:30:19 is there way to enable better kernel booting output? Mar 04 09:30:30 oh, people still working on dpkg for harmattan Mar 04 09:30:33 tty-fixture Mar 04 09:31:25 Corsac, probably the best idea ... give fragmentation ;) Mar 04 09:39:58 RST38h: probably "Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers" Mar 04 09:40:30 RST38h: I.E. no apps for meego, so N950 is going to be an epic flop Mar 04 09:41:03 omfg n950 Mar 04 09:41:06 is it really happening? Mar 04 09:41:10 a n900 with more ram? Mar 04 09:42:04 RST38h: my suspicion is that the pushbutton-to-recompile compatibility promise from maemo5 to meego doesn't deliver Mar 04 09:42:48 doc: did we promise that? Mar 04 09:43:22 err yes, originally that's been the promise of meego and maemo-qt4.7 Mar 04 09:43:26 4.6? Mar 04 09:43:31 whatever Mar 04 09:45:26 and it's been the only reason why meego didn't got bashed to the ground from beginning Mar 04 09:45:53 it's not going to be a flop if they already expect very low sales? Mar 04 09:48:00 http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/qt/ indicates meego has 4.7.1 Mar 04 09:48:45 RST38h: I guess M6-meegflavoured-HE doesn't fly either, as in no apps for that either - "out of the box" Mar 04 09:49:48 doc: in theory a Qt 4.6 app can look ugly on both maemo5 and meego Mar 04 09:49:51 so it should "work" Mar 04 09:50:08 proof needed Mar 04 09:50:22 i don't think i have Qt on my n900 Mar 04 09:50:36 the migration path never been considered worthy for a QA criterion Mar 04 09:51:03 oh, i have libqt4-core 4.7.0~git... Mar 04 09:51:17 you bet you have Mar 04 09:51:18 so in theory a Qt 4.7.0 app can look ugly on both maemo5 (pr1.3) and meego Mar 04 09:51:32 migration? what's that? Mar 04 09:51:36 yeah no, we don't test that Mar 04 09:51:41 we barely test the basic update path Mar 04 09:51:51 in practice it will segfault without further comment though? Mar 04 09:52:04 which is why there was e.g. a pr1.0.1 to deal w/ the fact that we couldn't upgrade from pr1.0 to pr1.1 of maemo5 :) Mar 04 09:52:30 well, i dunno, it might not segfault, but i sure would bet on it looking ugly Mar 04 09:52:44 it's qt anyway, so it's ugly Mar 04 09:52:47 wops Mar 04 09:53:06 I dont give a flying F on looks Mar 04 09:54:26 what worries me is Nokia's notion about "bare bones supported, everything fancy is your problem and we honestly try to fsck it up for every update" Mar 04 09:55:44 morning Mar 04 09:55:48 hey Mar 04 09:55:54 who was looking at quad copters? http://www.elektor.com/news/quadrotor-up%28s%29-and-down%28s%29-with-ni-labview.1731573.lynkx?utm_source=UK&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news Mar 04 09:56:01 hi Mece Mar 04 09:56:02 lardman, you're the developer of mbarcode, right? Mar 04 09:56:06 yep Mar 04 09:56:18 as in "NK-enter bug in libvte? Not our problem. We fixed the cli binaries that ship with stock system to work with NK-enter" Mar 04 09:56:19 * lardman wonders if he should have logged on this morning... ;) Mar 04 09:56:38 lardman, i had some problems with it, i wondered if there's a solution. Mar 04 09:57:04 what were your problems? Mar 04 09:57:19 lardman, i wanted to scan the barcode from an invoice so I wouldn't have to writ the thing into the bank thing Mar 04 09:57:41 doc: we don't honestly try Mar 04 09:57:41 do you know what type of barcode it is? Mar 04 09:57:47 but we do honestly succeed! Mar 04 09:57:57 * ptl wonders if there's Meego for the Galaxy Tablet (1) yet Mar 04 09:58:04 lardman, first it couldn't read the thing for some reason. (it's a long one. no idea, it didnt say) Mar 04 09:58:20 ptl: yes, but no touch events yes Mar 04 09:58:33 doc; oh, is that why over ssh generally breaks? Mar 04 09:58:33 s/yes/yet Mar 04 09:59:08 timeless_w7ip: yes Mar 04 09:59:16 doc: got a bug i can vote for? Mar 04 09:59:18 but after i took a picture and opened the file it could read it, only how am I supposed to get the data? I ended up using google and copying from the url. Mar 04 09:59:42 timeless_w7ip: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Mar 04 09:59:47 is there a way to just read the data so I can copy it to the clipboard? Mar 04 09:59:55 Mece: ah ok, so mBarcode would decode it from file? Mar 04 10:00:06 lardman, yep. Mar 04 10:00:24 well mBarcode should give you the option of just copying the raw data to the clipboard Mar 04 10:00:26 Doc: Honestly, I am now out of ideas. My crystal balls are all clouded. Mar 04 10:00:26 lardman, and then it wanted me to choose a service Mar 04 10:00:37 at the top there's a button to copy the data Mar 04 10:00:44 And moo, lardman Mar 04 10:00:49 hi RST38h Mar 04 10:00:49 lardman, hmm. i just got a list of services. Mar 04 10:00:53 # "fix" the hold-key=sym nonsense Mar 04 10:00:54 ooh! Mar 04 10:00:55 lemme try again Mar 04 10:00:58 timeless_w7ip: >> Mar 04 10:01:00 # NK-Enter bug, putting less +/, htop "search", and many other back to proper Mar 04 10:01:01 # https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009 Mar 04 10:01:02 Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications Mar 04 10:01:39 Mece: top right on the results window Mar 04 10:02:04 ptl: why, you want to do some kernel hacking? Mar 04 10:02:13 no Mar 04 10:02:16 lol Mar 04 10:02:17 I want to use it Mar 04 10:02:18 :) Mar 04 10:02:35 Well I'll try to get the xinput2 stuff working over the weekend Mar 04 10:02:50 hmm.. perhaps I have some wrong settings. I ended up directly in the search providers dialog Mar 04 10:03:08 cool... do you have a page for your project, lardman? I've only seen your announcement. Mar 04 10:03:14 Mece: oh, you mean the websearch plugin? Mar 04 10:03:27 ptl: the hummingbird page on the meego wiki Mar 04 10:04:15 Mece: if you only have one plugin enabled and the checkbox ticked to automatically use that plugin, then it will jump straight to it without giving you the list of plugins that can handle the barcode content (and the copy button is on the top right of that page) Mar 04 10:04:27 lardman, ah found the problem. my bad. Mar 04 10:04:40 wiki.meego.com/ARM/Hummingbird ? Mar 04 10:04:46 ptl: yes Mar 04 10:04:56 i'd like to see mBarcode send the scanned barcodes to some sort of server Mar 04 10:05:10 visz: they are broadcast in a DBus message Mar 04 10:05:22 right Mar 04 10:05:23 lardman, is there any way to improve the searching somehow? so i don't have to take picture and open? Mar 04 10:05:59 Mece: What type of barcode is it? 2D like a QR code, or a long 1D version? Mar 04 10:06:51 Some problems have been reported with very large barcodes, which seem to be caused by insufficient resolution in the video stream Mar 04 10:06:59 Hi, I'd have a quick question about promoting application from -Testing to Extras. Mar 04 10:07:01 i use the mbarcode to scan mac-addresses of ip-phones from their boxes, and use the macs to generate auto-provisionings Mar 04 10:07:11 the video stream is not running at full res as otherwise the processing and display all take longer Mar 04 10:07:22 i guess the process could be automated much more if i just had the time =P Mar 04 10:07:23 lardman, long 1D Mar 04 10:07:25 Why in some cases those applications won't go to the Extras, though they've got required thumbs up and QA is over? Mar 04 10:07:40 For example : http://maemo.org/packages/view/hermes/ Mar 04 10:07:41 lardman: how about increasing resolution automatically? Mar 04 10:07:42 visz: glad it's finding a use :) You could probably write a python plugin to do what you want quite easily Mar 04 10:07:49 Mece: ok Mar 04 10:07:59 RST38h: yeah I was thinking about doing that, not had time yet Mar 04 10:08:10 but you have to stop the pipeline to alter the res, can't be done on the fly afaiu Mar 04 10:08:49 and then it's working out whether you need higher res, or the user just hasn't pointed at the barcode yet, etc Mar 04 10:09:15 perhaps I should add a button on the screen to temporarily increase the res for the next 5s or whatever Mar 04 10:09:38 lardman, like this: http://www.niksula.hut.fi/~tsokura/pics/lasku.bmp Mar 04 10:09:41 whoa, bmp Mar 04 10:09:41 :d Mar 04 10:10:22 not sure I'd post my bank statement online either ;) Mar 04 10:10:46 ok I see the barcode, is long and also has rather fine bars, so that will be the issue Mar 04 10:11:11 ok, I'll sit down this weekend and see if I can take a crack at temporarily increasing the video res for things like this Mar 04 10:11:18 and also look at fixing some of the other bugs, etc Mar 04 10:11:34 lardman, it's not mine, LOL Mar 04 10:11:39 i just googled lasku Mar 04 10:11:43 oh that's ok ;) Mar 04 10:12:09 lardman, I have a differen suggestion. Mar 04 10:12:15 fire away Mar 04 10:12:29 allow mbarcode to take a photo, and crop it in the application Mar 04 10:12:45 manually if need be Mar 04 10:12:57 so photo -> crop -> decode like that Mar 04 10:13:08 still needs the pipeline to be reset Mar 04 10:13:55 lardman, no idea what the pipeline means in this context, but photo -> decode -> if fail -> crop -> decode Mar 04 10:14:24 there's a gstreamer pipeline which brings the data from the camera/video source Mar 04 10:14:44 lardman ah yes. Well I guess you'd choose which mode to use. Mar 04 10:14:59 currently the res is reduced so fewer pixels need to be processed which means the app is more responsive Mar 04 10:15:42 lardman, yep, problem is with long codes need to have the camera further away.. Mar 04 10:15:53 I'll have a look at temp switching the pipeline to full video res, but of course the still frame res is larger still Mar 04 10:16:10 mece: that's a side effect of the video res thing Mar 04 10:16:20 lardman: do you know how many and which sensors the galaxy tab has? This information was easy to find for the N900, but it seems quite hard to do the same for samsung galaxy tab. Mar 04 10:16:23 I chop off the edges, so you appear to be closer Mar 04 10:16:26 lardman, well I was thinking having optionally the photo version instead of the active search thing. Mar 04 10:16:34 anyway, thanks. Great app btw :) Mar 04 10:16:37 like, does it have an ambient light sensor? Mar 04 10:16:46 mece: ok, I'll have a think about that idea too Mar 04 10:16:55 np, glad people like using it :) Mar 04 10:17:05 ptl: yes it has one of those afair Mar 04 10:17:27 ptl: you could look at your dmesg output to see the sensor list Mar 04 10:18:43 lots of output. Mar 04 10:18:58 cat to a text file and read on a PC? Mar 04 10:19:13 no need, I am reading it on my pc already Mar 04 10:19:35 thanks anyway. Mar 04 10:19:38 I was just saying that is a long text to parse. I'll try it. But I'd prefer a web source : Mar 04 10:19:41 :) Mar 04 10:19:51 you'll need to stick the part ids into Google to see what they are in a lot of cases Mar 04 10:20:09 ptl: well xda probably has something, but you have the raw info in front of you Mar 04 10:20:50 <_0x47> hi, I'm facing troubles on porting a debian package. The problem seems to be, that it comes with a built-in libtool, and scratchbox redirects the execution to the default libtool. Now, I've got some SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE lines in my debian/rules, but I'm not exactly sure if it works as expected. Output: http://pastebin.com/6MFW2pFX sbox_redirect_log: http://pastebin.com/FQi0jP6C debian/rules: http://pastebin.com/ZVCZbZed Mar 04 10:23:59 has anyone used qtm 1.x to try to add calendar events? Is the backend supposed to work? Mar 04 10:24:32 <_0x47> was my message displayed correctly (3 links in the end)? Mar 04 10:24:40 _0x47: yep Mar 04 10:24:44 <_0x47> k thx Mar 04 10:25:02 but quite possibly no one knows how to fix your prob Mar 04 10:26:00 <_0x47> Yeah, I guess I'll just give up, seems like nobody really knows how/wants to use scratchbox. Not much info on the internet either... Mar 04 10:26:43 looks like your libtool is being used though? Mar 04 10:27:19 <_0x47> I suppose if it was, there shouldn't be a line in the redirect log at all? Mar 04 10:28:04 <_0x47> I'm really not sure tho, I was just wondering why it should crash if it used the libtool from the package, as it builds on Debian just fine Mar 04 10:28:33 well those errors are quite odd, looks like an X has been added to the front of each argument Mar 04 10:28:45 * lardman wonders about the last redirect Mar 04 10:28:58 tacks on a /bin/sh to the start Mar 04 10:29:40 anyway sorry, I don't know much about redirects in sb, other than that I try to avoid needing them Mar 04 10:29:51 <_0x47> even more weird is the fact, that these commands are not *in* the libtool (even without the leading X) Mar 04 10:29:53 by e.g. renaming the binary I'm going to need to use Mar 04 10:30:09 they are in the command line being passed to doltlibtool though Mar 04 10:30:34 last line of the build Mar 04 10:30:41 <_0x47> oh, then this may be an issue, but I don't understand if it is redirected or not Mar 04 10:31:01 <_0x47> because I onlt put redirect-ignores for libtool in the debian/rules Mar 04 10:31:12 would it need to be, is doltlibtool even in sb? Mar 04 10:31:20 <_0x47> let me check Mar 04 10:31:33 I think not, perhaps your trying to redirect it has broken things Mar 04 10:32:46 <_0x47> not doing anything to doltlibtool yet, and is was broken right from the very first build. So maybe preventing any sort of redirecting helps. but wait, I'm doing a find right now Mar 04 10:33:05 it appears in the redirect log was why I asked Mar 04 10:33:31 <_0x47> well no, it is not in sb, so it cannot be redirected Mar 04 10:34:04 [2011-03-04 10:08:29 24946] Redirect(0): Script(0) ../../doltlibtool -> /scratchbox/tools/bin/bash ../../doltlibtool Mar 04 10:34:08 but perhaps that's normal Mar 04 10:34:21 <_0x47> doltlibtool: http://pastebin.com/UMTmFCKP Mar 04 10:34:30 <_0x47> i hope it's normal Mar 04 10:35:12 bbiab, got to pop out Mar 04 10:36:09 <_0x47> fair enough, bb Mar 04 10:47:25 * mva become a father second time. About half hour ago... ;) Mar 04 10:53:38 <_0x47> mva: congratulations! Mar 04 10:53:52 _0x47: thx Mar 04 10:56:20 from dmesg: http://paste.kde.org/6438/ -> I do not see anything in the output of 'fdisk -l' after connecting the device to the host PC in mass storage mode, nor the N900 memory, nor even the mmc/sdcard partition table. What do I do wrong ? from lsusb: Bus 002 Device 005: ID 0421:01c7 Nokia Mobile Phones N900 (Storage Mode) Mar 04 11:07:27 is there any more generic way to display notifications and esp yes/no dialogs from .deb pre/post-install scripts than particularly calling dbus-send to rise those hildon notifiers? Mar 04 11:09:05 in fact that's a massive flaw in pkgs like powerkernel, i2ctools, *#-ena and probably others, that breaks things when installing e.g via ssh remote login & apt-get Mar 04 11:09:50 ouch Mar 04 11:10:00 yeah, ouch Mar 04 11:10:25 works great with HAM, fails epically via fapman, apt-get and others Mar 04 11:11:59 those should be like notes for ham triggering dbus-send and be normal apt-get status Mar 04 11:12:14 so something like HAM: $status for apt-get Mar 04 11:12:41 and not the pkgs themself calling it Mar 04 11:14:10 sounds interesting but gibberish to me Mar 04 11:14:24 re Mar 04 11:14:31 NB I am a noob to deb packaging Mar 04 11:15:40 my first approach would be to catch return error codes on dbus-send Mar 04 11:15:43 statusmessages should be handled in a way that apt understands in any case, with X or without... just fail! Mar 04 11:16:00 wut?? Mar 04 11:16:12 nobody wants it to fail Mar 04 11:16:26 no it is fail Mar 04 11:17:50 sorry, I just can't see what "apt nderstands" means for installing a pkg in HAM that needs to open a "this needs a restart! " requester Mar 04 11:19:26 DocScrutinizer: the package should make HAM aware of it and HAM should generate the dbus-send, apt-get should show something like a sidenote Mar 04 11:19:40 should Mar 04 11:19:48 so not the package should handle it but ham Mar 04 11:19:49 ...doesn't help Mar 04 11:20:07 Im just talking what it should be like, yes Mar 04 11:20:27 I'm asking HOW to implement it exactly like you suggested, I asked if there's a way to do it that way Mar 04 11:20:47 nope, that is missing from HAM side Mar 04 11:21:13 afaik Mar 04 11:22:23 what you could do is check the parent process and if it is not HAM skip things Mar 04 11:23:38 quick&dirty way: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteInfoprint string:"NOTIFICATION" || echo "NOTIFICATION" Mar 04 11:24:36 dual purpose - catch error return codes and try a fallback plain echo Mar 04 11:26:46 of course the check for PPID==HAM (or similar semantics) looks more sane, as e.g in a remote ssh the dbus-send still might work just displays on a screen you don't expect it at Mar 04 11:32:01 I have no better idea for now sorry Mar 04 11:32:12 MohammadAG: afaik only i2ctools, powerkernel-related pkgs, and *#-ena do this weird thing. I consider getting rid of those notifications in all of them Mar 04 11:35:33 apt-get for example should work as well on a system in maintenance mode when there's no dbus started at all, not to talk about X/Hildon Mar 04 11:36:01 +1 Mar 04 11:36:56 * chem|st would leave those msg an just restart, note it down in the pkg details... Mar 04 11:37:30 if we need a special level of user protection, we could go for sth like `I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING=yes apt-get install i2ctools` Mar 04 11:38:03 suggested sth like that a year ago Mar 04 11:40:02 everything but extras and ovi should have ham to warn users, instead of stupid "pkg is not verified" stuff Mar 04 11:40:35 hmm http://myn900.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/meego-on-the-n900-officially-targeted-by-nokia/ Mar 04 11:41:44 if [ x$I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING -ne xyes ]; then echo "please read the docs at http://wiki.maemo.org/i2ctools and in the README file in this pkg! aborting installation..."; exit 10; fi Mar 04 11:46:45 * ruskie really wishes people would stop using: [ x$I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING -ne xyes ] constructs... the x is completly pointless in modern day shell... especially if you know what the system will run... :( Mar 04 11:47:49 hmm anyone played with dosbox on n900? Mar 04 11:48:01 pupnik? Mar 04 11:48:09 * SpeedEvil remembers someone playing with it. Mar 04 11:48:33 can't remember if I played anything but I've started it a few times :) Mar 04 11:49:08 jr@halley:~> if [ $me_doesnt_exist -ne xxx ]; then echo one; fi Mar 04 11:49:10 bash: [: -ne: Einstelliger (unärer) Operator erwartet. Mar 04 11:50:12 if [ "$me_doesnt_exist" != "xxx" ]; then echo one; fi Mar 04 11:50:16 works just fine Mar 04 11:50:24 and gets rid of that annoying x Mar 04 11:50:49 I wonder if it can play some of those nice fp dungeon crawlers, Mar 04 11:51:08 like minecraft? Mar 04 11:51:15 no, like eye of the beholder Mar 04 11:51:33 minecraft's better Mar 04 11:51:34 or you could even do: if [[ $me_doesnt_exist != xxx ]]; then echo one; fi Mar 04 11:51:43 kerio, umm... Mar 04 11:51:47 yeah, -ne is BS Mar 04 11:53:02 IroN900:~# if [[ $me_doesnt_exist != xxx ]]; then echo one; fi Mar 04 11:53:03 sh: xxx: unknown operand Mar 04 11:53:09 there might be a few operations where one would use the -mnemonic instead of a different operation... but in those cases it can be easier to predefine a blank variable and override it Mar 04 11:53:13 yes... [[ ]] is not sh Mar 04 11:53:21 but in this case was refering to bash Mar 04 11:53:30 since that's what you were running Mar 04 11:53:39 if [[ $me_doesnt_exist != xxx ]]; then echo one; fi Mar 04 11:53:40 one Mar 04 11:53:44 on bash or zsh Mar 04 11:54:13 we aren't talking about bash, we were about postinst in apt-get Mar 04 11:54:33 kerio, one might also argue that dragon age: origins is better than eye of the beholder, but that is entirely unrelated to my question ;) Mar 04 11:54:52 minecraft *is* a first person dungeon crawler Mar 04 11:54:56 so you shoud stay with generic shell syntax Mar 04 11:54:57 it has dungeons, and it's first person Mar 04 11:55:06 DocScrutinizer, then [ "$me_doesnt_exist" != "xxx" ]; should work just fine Mar 04 11:55:20 kerio, true. but it does not run in dosbox, or on the n900 afaict Mar 04 12:05:54 hey, where are the icons for the categorize of ham stored? and where ist apmefo looking for icons? (I would like to symlink them) Mar 04 12:21:15 apmefo and catorice don't look for icons anywhere, basically. Both just edit the /usr/share/applications/hildon/ directory structure Mar 04 12:22:07 hildon is looking for icons that are defines in *.desktop files, no matter if catorize, apmefo, or nothing is installed Mar 04 12:22:10 DocScrutinizer>: I mean the folder icons. Mar 04 12:22:29 catorize is using the HAM icons Mar 04 12:23:09 I don't know where they are, but would like to link them to /opt/usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/hildon Mar 04 12:23:23 so that I can use them with apmefo Mar 04 12:23:42 I already did this once but I forgot where these icons are stored Mar 04 12:28:27 ok I found them. The HAM Icons are in /usr/share/themes/default Mar 04 12:38:26 arg I messed something up. in which package are the icons of /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/hildon/ ? Mar 04 12:38:55 gnome-hicolor maybe? or something similar Mar 04 12:39:01 note: dpkg is your friend Mar 04 12:39:07 it has a flag to search for a file in package Mar 04 12:39:18 might be dpgk -S /path/with/filename Mar 04 12:40:04 so , what about the official support of meegon in n900 as dev version ? Mar 04 12:40:08 thx I just forgot about this Mar 04 12:40:21 i want hear you opinion about it DocScrutinizer Mar 04 12:40:40 it's nice that they plan on working on it Mar 04 12:40:59 would be nicer if they streched some design muscle and actually made a usable UI for the handset version Mar 04 12:41:22 ruskie: the actual UI ( i not tested it yet ) is not good ? Mar 04 12:41:45 it's like a mix between iphone and android... Mar 04 12:42:04 but is that bad ? Mar 04 12:42:11 aka a smartphone style device... so generally unusable for anything but phone functionality Mar 04 12:42:20 ah ok Mar 04 12:42:24 i get you now Mar 04 12:42:32 not bad per-se... but frankly I wouldn't want to use it for anything more than phoning Mar 04 12:42:39 just like I used my n95... Mar 04 12:42:42 true Mar 04 12:42:48 has all those functions... but pointless controls/ui Mar 04 12:42:55 maemo style is more mini-computer style Mar 04 12:42:59 yup Mar 04 12:43:04 and that's what I love about it Mar 04 12:43:09 maybe a mix between then could better Mar 04 12:43:30 something like maemo 5 with a good portrait mode Mar 04 12:43:42 or just have two distinct UI setups Mar 04 12:44:09 one stronger on portrait/smartphone layout the other computer style/landscape Mar 04 12:44:10 or a table mode , something like that Mar 04 12:44:16 ruskie: yes Mar 04 12:44:44 that's really the only way I can see the device fitting everyone Mar 04 12:45:22 true Mar 04 12:45:36 a least this dev version of meego Mar 04 12:46:02 an as I'm not that familiar with various smartphone UIs I couldn't say if the current mode is great for those that prefer smartphone centric UIs Mar 04 12:46:05 but it could be Mar 04 12:46:24 so the only thing that would be needed is a computer centric mode based on m4 or m5 Mar 04 12:46:39 i really like maemo 5 style , but something i wish could be in portrait mode Mar 04 12:46:48 like unlock screen Mar 04 12:47:05 I never use it one handed Mar 04 12:47:22 i can now type my unlock code with one hand just fine Mar 04 12:47:44 but was hard Mar 04 12:48:15 I generally have reach for all the sw keys Mar 04 12:50:50 talking about this now make sense Mar 04 12:50:55 the project at tmo Mar 04 12:51:02 about have meego core and maemo UI Mar 04 12:51:37 well I could live with any computer like UI frankly... Mar 04 12:54:03 for sure I won't accept that meego mickey mouse UI Mar 04 12:54:29 DocScrutinizer51: heh Mar 04 12:55:14 now nokia just need open everything in maemo5 Mar 04 12:58:10 ...plus introduce world piece. easy one. Mar 04 12:58:14 s/piece/peace Mar 04 12:58:21 heh Mar 04 13:00:14 DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG my uboot story has no lucky end. after all possible combinations (for MohammadAG: i can boot shr from uSD but cannot get maemo booting with uboot, it boots OK witj pk46) i have reflashed rootfs and did a clean install of pk46 and u-boot-power via ham, boot still ends with "Starting kernel..." Mar 04 13:40:00 "N900 crahes ever 3 minutes!" another OC casualty? :D Mar 04 13:40:32 probably Mar 04 13:43:13 does OC damage look the same as it does on x86? random segfaults and so on, certain applications effected disproportionately? Mar 04 13:43:49 Probably. Mar 04 13:43:51 Hard to say. Mar 04 13:44:46 Jaffa: want to dump the twitter feed to the 'pad sometime today or tonight so I can work on it tonight? Mar 04 13:44:55 BCMM: yes. also smoke and a vague smell of burning Mar 04 13:45:17 i mean, it's really really recognisable on a linux PC Mar 04 13:45:23 well, overheating damage in general Mar 04 13:46:19 never OCed anything very far, but was asked to fix a P4 that was running at ~100C due to terrible cooling... Mar 04 13:47:33 ccooke: surely that would happen long after the device was completely dead? Mar 04 13:48:23 BCMM: depends. I'm aware of an x86 chip that continued working while it was smouldering. Not for very long, mind Mar 04 13:48:35 wow... Mar 04 13:49:06 there was a story about an amd proc that had the cpu fan fail ages ago and it kept running just with a heatsink @116C for months Mar 04 13:49:10 actually, if a p4 can run for *months* at about 100C (idle-ish), i wouldn't be surprised if you could reach the smoke point of some plastics, for a few minutes Mar 04 13:49:45 ruskie: wow, any BIOS that doesn't kill the power when the temp does that is pretty worrying Mar 04 13:50:05 Woo! Mar 04 13:50:08 BCMM, this was when bios was not that smart Mar 04 13:50:10 Nokia Nielsen Panel - Invitation to Wall Charger Survey Mar 04 13:50:15 Actually - meh. Mar 04 13:50:28 and bios doesn't do all Mar 04 13:50:53 my amd 3200+ (2ghz) was oc to 3.8Ghz Mar 04 13:50:54 and again bios can be disabled to do that Mar 04 13:50:57 and I do it always Mar 04 13:51:01 with a very high voltage Mar 04 13:51:09 works during 2 days :) Mar 04 13:51:25 and die :) Mar 04 13:51:45 frankly had cpus that ran without a heatsink for some 5-10 minutes... than the system just froze Mar 04 13:52:01 shut it down... put the heatsink back... and it ran on Mar 04 13:53:35 my bios is configured to make horrible noises if the CPU fan stops, and shut down if the temp hits 90 or something - i thought everybody had that now? Mar 04 13:53:44 (unless they are actually trying to do somethign stupid) Mar 04 13:53:51 BCMM, by default it might be Mar 04 13:54:05 I find it annoying that the bios would shut down the system for whatever reason Mar 04 13:54:27 Lol. Mar 04 13:54:28 especially as the sensors can actually be off-by-a-lot Mar 04 13:54:33 How do you feel, if the charger is non-black? How do you feel, if the charger is slim? How do you feel, if the charger is thick? Mar 04 13:54:43 rather have it that way than have it shut down by the heat, personally Mar 04 13:55:00 BCMM, yep Mar 04 13:55:08 I'd need to check if my bios is actually set to do anything Mar 04 13:55:14 other than just start some siren crap Mar 04 13:55:46 Do people read these things? Mar 04 13:55:51 "How do you feel, if the size of the charger cost is optimized? How do you feel, if the size of the charger cost is not optimized?" Mar 04 13:56:24 of course I'm not exactly worried about overheating... the amount of air that goes through all my computers tend to be quite high... so usually get just a slightly warmer breeze on the other side Mar 04 13:56:29 SpeedEvil, rofl Mar 04 13:56:42 is that meant for some I don't know... beancounters or something? Mar 04 13:57:04 ruskie: It's a survey I got invited to take part in. Mar 04 13:57:08 About phone chargers. Mar 04 13:57:57 ruskie, instead of having a expensive cooling system, it s cheaper to buy a higher processor and underclock it for the same result :) Mar 04 13:58:21 SpeedEvil, size didn't matter Mar 04 13:58:23 my only suggestion about phone chargers... use the same plug and don't make the bricks so large that they cover any other plugs around them... and for the EU market... make them schuko... NOT euro plugs so that they'll actually STAY in the damn outlet... Mar 04 13:58:31 SpeedEvil, what s matter is to not to connect cable ! Mar 04 13:58:36 khertan, who said about expensive? Mar 04 13:58:48 most of the fans I got out of old/ancient PSUs and other systems Mar 04 13:58:56 :) Mar 04 13:59:09 SpeedEvil, http://www.palm.com/us/products/accessories/touchstone-technology.html <<<< probably the best charger i ever see Mar 04 13:59:12 I have a 120mm fan iirc that I got from some ancient dual cpu 486 ibm servers Mar 04 13:59:22 had to destructively dismantle the psu unit Mar 04 13:59:29 it was basically wellded shut Mar 04 13:59:51 khertan: I have a PSU design for my advanced torch that uses a really bright LED. Mar 04 14:00:53 but I'm running it on 5V or maybe 12V not sure anymore... could be 12V it's quite but moves a LOT of air Mar 04 14:00:57 and that goes through my server Mar 04 14:01:11 it also helps that my server and firewall both run atom boards Mar 04 14:01:22 np: Blondie - Atomic. Mar 04 14:03:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko <-- I want such a plug on the bricks... not the whimpy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug which if the pins aren't just right will just fall out of the socket... Mar 04 14:03:40 "I would like the cable to be fixed, but replaceable. For example, a standard nokia microUSB cable would plug onto the charger, and then wrap neatly round the charger, for secure transport. Mar 04 14:03:40 The cable could then be removed if you needed to connect to a PC, or if you need to use it as a garrotte, in case of meeting Mr Elop" Mar 04 14:03:54 hehe Mar 04 14:04:08 I don't want usb plugs Mar 04 14:04:24 I want the charger to be dedicated with high quality electronics that do what needs to be done Mar 04 14:04:26 yeah - well - power by wifi isn't there yet. Mar 04 14:04:37 I've went through to many 220v<->usb plugs Mar 04 14:04:52 and power by EM field adds weight. Mar 04 14:04:53 they all have this annoynig high pitched whine due to shoddy electronics... even the higher quality ones Mar 04 14:05:02 ruskie: How old are you?> Mar 04 14:05:06 28 Mar 04 14:05:11 I have very good hearing Mar 04 14:05:13 ruskie: Odd. Mar 04 14:05:21 Most PSUs operate at >60KHz Mar 04 14:05:35 actually - maybe not in pulse skipping mode under no loada. Mar 04 14:05:40 and by that I mean that I can "hear" if a TV is on without seeing if it's on... Mar 04 14:06:01 That's only 15625hz though Mar 04 14:06:02 it's actually annoying since an ambulance siren will cause me to cover my ears Mar 04 14:06:11 Are you in fact a bat? Mar 04 14:06:22 just sensitive hearing Mar 04 14:06:45 superpower! Mar 04 14:07:05 Great hearing isn't a superpower. Mar 04 14:07:13 it's a curse a lot of the time Mar 04 14:07:22 It'd be a superpower if he could hear something in another country. Mar 04 14:07:32 * SpeedEvil realises he is listening to australia right now. Mar 04 14:07:51 it's actually a medical condition and could be treated Mar 04 14:08:19 but so far the benefit of actually being able to listen to whispered conversations in a rather crowded room outweigh it Mar 04 14:08:20 you should start dj'ing Mar 04 14:08:34 why? Mar 04 14:08:40 to actually lose my hearing? Mar 04 14:08:42 * SpeedEvil is reminded of the guy with two functional penises, who got one removed. Mar 04 14:08:55 can't actually stand a lot of noise Mar 04 14:09:38 bass is something that happens to other people I just experience pain Mar 04 14:09:47 Earplugs easily fix that though. Mar 04 14:09:53 sounds bad Mar 04 14:10:05 cos^, well since I'm not a party goer Mar 04 14:10:20 and tend to enjoy any music at rather low low volumes it's not to much of a problem Mar 04 14:10:43 it can be treated by broadband noise theraphy Mar 04 14:10:55 to reset the levels Mar 04 14:11:12 but as said... so far hasn't negatively impacted me to such an affect Mar 04 14:11:16 anyway gotta run Mar 04 14:11:48 headphones to high volume and then cat /dev/urandom /dev/dsp Mar 04 14:12:12 ==diy broadband noise therapy Mar 04 14:15:47 dang, doesn't work on ubuntu. there's no more /dev/dsp Mar 04 14:17:11 ah, cos^ Mar 04 14:17:25 did you see my post from earlier about a quadcopter? Mar 04 14:18:05 cos^: http://www.elektor.com/news/quadrotor-up%28s%29-and-down%28s%29-with-ni-labview.1731573.lynkx?utm_source=UK&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news Mar 04 14:18:36 Bloody Android, first time I bother to boot it in weeks and I may have downloaded one of those bloody virus-ridden apps Mar 04 14:19:45 lardman: nice Mar 04 14:19:54 what, the virus? ;) Mar 04 14:20:10 Is there away to set the profiles based on time? eg 11pm Silent, 8am General Mar 04 14:20:18 time for after work.. afk Mar 04 14:21:56 is there a kindle app for maemo Mar 04 14:23:21 iluminator101: Is the kindle ebook format called epub? Mar 04 14:24:10 hmm....idk...i use only use .mobi's Mar 04 14:27:51 iluminator101: ahh. I haven't used a kindle. The other day I downloaded an epub file and viewed it with a firefox plugin. Mar 04 14:29:23 steve___, i use this program called fbreader but its does have page forwards tags.... Mar 04 14:38:00 so I have the Nokia N900 and am exploring ways to sync my contacts between it and Thunderbird, any ideas? Mar 04 14:38:42 I guess Funambol is the way to go Mar 04 14:40:15 I found this cool SyncML lightweight PHP/MySQL server called mooha, but I can't sync contacts to the phone from the server, only the other way around Mar 04 14:47:38 on the n900, is it programmatically possible to turn off the network devices (WLAN, 3G) without switching to flight mode? Mar 04 14:51:12 dominikb: of course, but whether such functionality is readily available I don't know Mar 04 14:52:15 lardman: maybe via dbus? probably not via qt(mobility)? Mar 04 14:52:44 perhaps, I'd look to see what if anything is passed over dbus when you use the on/off button flight mode switch Mar 04 14:53:15 otherwise I guess you should be able to do what you need by echoing appropriate values in the sysfs Mar 04 14:55:54 lardman: flight mode is ok and i can easily switch to it via dbus, but i do not want this mode to be active when the device powers up again. when the device is powered off while in flight mode it presents a modal dialog on startup. Mar 04 14:56:14 yep Mar 04 15:00:24 lardman: thanks. that does the job: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Disable_cellular_radio Mar 04 15:00:46 good good Mar 04 15:36:43 öri öri kirahvi Mar 04 15:36:48 oops Mar 04 15:36:57 #wrong Mar 04 16:01:30 phew, looks like I didn't have any affected apps on my Tab Mar 04 16:01:55 lardman, ? Mar 04 16:02:43 virus scare for Android, and I happened to boot Android (first time in weeks) just while the infected files were in the market Mar 04 16:02:55 lol Mar 04 16:03:04 You had nothing to worry about unless you downloaded the apps. Mar 04 16:03:15 autoupdate? Mar 04 16:03:21 And unless you tend to download scummy Paris hilton nude apps, you should be fine. Mar 04 16:03:25 lol Mar 04 16:03:54 yeah, well there was a scientific calculator and a barcode scanner listed too, it was those rather than the racy japanese school girl apps I was worried about ;) Mar 04 16:04:33 I highly doubt you would have downloaded them. They were all essentially spam apps anyways. Mar 04 16:04:52 What you can do to make sure you don't ever have a problem is install Lookout. Mar 04 16:05:25 It s funny that many french site are speaking about the n950 and his rumored specs as official Mar 04 16:05:44 I learned long ago never to believe french sites about anything. lol Mar 04 16:05:50 Definitely not about games. Mar 04 16:06:30 safer to finish porting Meego and not have to use Android again ;) Mar 04 16:06:42 lol Mar 04 16:06:44 right. Mar 04 16:07:00 Safer to not bother wasting your time, really. Mar 04 16:11:42 otoh, it's quite good to play with Android and see just how nicely it works, gives one something to aim for with Meego Mar 04 16:11:57 viruses notwithstanding Mar 04 16:12:38 And still have a command line to boot. Mar 04 16:13:13 for an end user the nice calendar, email integration, very good maps, etc. make it great Mar 04 16:13:42 but I'd like to run maths and modelling sw, so need to be able to program in C/C++/FORTRAN really Mar 04 16:13:55 plus who wants a finished product, it's the getting there that's fun Mar 04 16:14:00 Think you can do that now. Mar 04 16:14:27 Agreed. Mar 04 16:14:50 that's why I'm helping port cyanogenmod 7 (gingerbread) to my phone with a few others. Mar 04 16:15:08 N900? Mar 04 16:15:18 Samsung Captivate. Mar 04 16:15:33 Galaxy S Mar 04 16:15:35 ah ok, no wonder you've not been around much Mar 04 16:16:20 When the whole shift to meego happened, I wasn't happy with what I saw and what I had to deal with. Mar 04 16:19:10 zerojay: understandable Mar 04 16:20:26 zerojay: and how do you find the galaxy S and the whole android stuff? Mar 04 16:20:52 zerojay, ordered a Nook Color for shits'n'giggles. Mar 04 16:21:42 GAN900: planning to port Meego to it? Mar 04 16:25:25 any thoughts on this sudden Meego on the N900 effort from Nokia? Mar 04 16:25:40 perhaps they have finished Harmattan and needed something to do with their time? Mar 04 16:25:53 what sudden effort? Mar 04 16:25:56 yeah they figured that they make an insane mistake with the wp7 stuff Mar 04 16:26:06 (haven't been on tmo in a while, sick) Mar 04 16:26:08 MohammadAG, haven't you heard? nokia is officially helping with n900 meego Mar 04 16:26:14 the recent announcement that they'll produce a developer edition Mar 04 16:26:18 hasn't that always been true? Mar 04 16:26:26 http://myn900.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/meego-on-the-n900-officially-targeted-by-nokia/ Mar 04 16:26:34 MohammadAG, no Mar 04 16:26:34 they were working on a hw reference platform, but not on making it usable, apparently Mar 04 16:26:35 lardman, yes. Mar 04 16:27:03 <_0x47> lardman: hey there, remember my problem with the porting? Mar 04 16:27:12 _0x47: yes indeed Mar 04 16:27:15 get it sorted? Mar 04 16:27:25 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/04/windows_update/ <-- they broke it again... Mar 04 16:27:26 <_0x47> not really, but I indeed found the problem Mar 04 16:27:32 wp7 that is Mar 04 16:27:52 <_0x47> lardman: optarg=`$echo "X$arg" | $Xsed -e 's/[-_a-zA-Z0-9]*=//'` ;; Mar 04 16:28:02 <_0x47> $echo is echo Mar 04 16:28:07 MohammadAG: on meego ml or meego wiki rather than tmo Mar 04 16:28:21 <_0x47> X$arg is the current arg, with X in front Mar 04 16:28:30 <_0x47> and Xsed is sed (gnu) Mar 04 16:28:35 <_0x47> to remove the X again Mar 04 16:28:35 cool Mar 04 16:28:47 <_0x47> so, I ran these commands from command line like Mar 04 16:28:52 _0x47: well glad you worked out what it was Mar 04 16:28:59 <_0x47> echo "Xasdfsgfarg" | /usr/bin/gnu/sed -e '1s/^X//' -e 's/[-_a-zA-Z0-9]*=//' Mar 04 16:29:05 <_0x47> and it works perfect :/ Mar 04 16:29:20 anyone got a link to meego-dev? Mar 04 16:29:25 but still not the script? Mar 04 16:29:25 lardman, hope something useful comes of it. Mar 04 16:29:26 <_0x47> lardman: yeah, but I don't get it, why would it fail from a script? Mar 04 16:29:31 apparently, I'm only subscribed to -community Mar 04 16:29:37 GAN900: iirc Ubuntu is/has been ported Mar 04 16:29:45 MohammadAG: too many bloody lists over there Mar 04 16:29:58 MohammadAG, http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev Mar 04 16:30:07 _0x47: check that bash/sh handles the shell stuff correctly Mar 04 16:30:24 lardman, the guides I saw all seemed to be doing it weirdly, though. Mar 04 16:30:32 Had to launch a vnc server. Mar 04 16:30:36 <_0x47> lardman: do you know how I can find out whether I use sh or bash? Mar 04 16:30:40 _0x47: might expect bash, but gets sh in sb, somethihng like that Mar 04 16:30:42 It's chroot or similar bs. Mar 04 16:30:51 GAN900: ah ok, yeah that's a waste of time Mar 04 16:31:01 <_0x47> lardman: i just had the same thought, but how to find out? Mar 04 16:31:11 GAN900: well when you get it give me a shout and I'll give you a hand Mar 04 16:31:19 Seems like Ubuntu could be booted fine, though. Mar 04 16:31:26 GAN900, thanks Mar 04 16:31:42 _0x47: check what is and isn't available in sh vs bash, see if that stuff is used in the script, etc? Mar 04 16:32:03 GAN900: yes I'd have thought so, then just a faff getting touch to work, etc Mar 04 16:32:15 what is up with this silly irc server? Mar 04 16:32:38 it's freenode Mar 04 16:32:48 Really cool if I could get MeeGo going. Mar 04 16:32:58 presumably one of the servers is having troubles Mar 04 16:33:04 Too bad there's no Tablet UX yet, though. Mar 04 16:33:06 <_0x47> lardman: it's so weird, it works on both. (if I run the command from sh, and bash I get the expected result) Mar 04 16:33:14 GAN900: have you done some digging into how to flash a kernel, etc? Mar 04 16:33:22 GAN900: does it have an SD card slot? Mar 04 16:33:49 _0x47: not the raw command but the shell-isms used to get the commands running in the scrikpt Mar 04 16:34:27 <_0x47> lardman: but If I run the script manually from bash or sh, it will fail. I have debug enabled and modified it a bit to see on which line the sed command fails, let me pastebin Mar 04 16:34:55 what does it have after the hash-bang? Mar 04 16:35:04 doesn't matter if you run the commands in the terminal Mar 04 16:40:01 lardman, yes. Mar 04 16:40:11 lardman, no, haven't done any digging yet. Mar 04 16:40:38 <_0x47> lardman: http://pastebin.com/1wrAM2LQ Mar 04 16:40:55 GAN900: yes to the sd slot? Mar 04 16:41:00 Hi guys! Mar 04 16:41:01 Yes. Mar 04 16:41:04 How the nexts steps og meego by Nokia?? If I buy a N900, how it will be supported? Mar 04 16:41:10 that's good, can leave the main system intact then Mar 04 16:41:11 <_0x47> doesn't matter if I run the script with sh or bash (#!/bin/bash) or from command line Mar 04 16:41:11 Little Endian question response? Mar 04 16:41:17 lol Mar 04 16:41:35 I really like high-dpi IPS displays. Mar 04 16:41:41 _0x47: hmm, ok, so it's not that then Mar 04 16:41:55 1024x600 at 7 inches is about perfect for a tablet. Mar 04 16:41:57 _0x47: I don't know I'm afraid, and am a bit busy atm so don't really have time to do any digging Mar 04 16:42:07 GAN900: yeah same as the Tab Mar 04 16:42:10 <_0x47> lardman: ok, thanks anyways Mar 04 16:42:45 _0x47: multitasking writing CUDA code and talking is about all I can manage, not also debugging shell script problems, sorry! Mar 04 16:42:46 Lot cheaper, though. *g* Mar 04 16:42:58 GAN900: yeah Mar 04 16:43:21 <_0x47> lardman: it's okay :P Mar 04 16:51:06 <_0x47> lardman: I found it! :) the $echo variable has the very amazing and totally awesome value if '' (these are two ' with nothing in it ffs) Mar 04 16:51:16 <_0x47> if -> of* Mar 04 16:51:54 <_0x47> that's kind of a lame thing, took me like forever to find out Mar 04 16:58:13 always the simple things you know ;) Mar 04 17:03:59 is it possible to program the n900 so that it wakes up (powers up) at a certain time? Mar 04 17:05:19 dominikb_, since the n900 already can wake itself up to bring up alarms and stuff, I would say it is pretty likely, though probably uber complex Mar 04 17:05:40 hi there Mar 04 17:05:46 It's actually not. Mar 04 17:05:53 is it possible to use a more recent kernel on the n900? Mar 04 17:05:58 The n900 will wake itself from off if there are scheduled alarms Mar 04 17:06:01 AIUI Mar 04 17:06:40 SpeedEvil, waking up to ring alarm != bringing it up fully afaik? Mar 04 17:06:50 ie do you know how to change it to do it? Mar 04 17:07:42 hmm Mar 04 17:07:51 tru Mar 04 17:10:03 no one? Mar 04 17:10:42 hejos, more recent in what way? afaik only meego ould biuld with later later kernels Mar 04 17:12:16 lcuk: why not? I need the latest version of our usb controller driver Mar 04 17:12:52 with meego I heard it's not possible to use the host mode on the n90 Mar 04 17:12:54 n900 Mar 04 17:13:02 hejos, don't ask me, IANAKH (I am not a kernel hacker) Mar 04 17:13:17 hey, how can I check if a charger support fast charging on N900? Mar 04 17:13:51 thx anyway :) Mar 04 17:17:34 flexxxv, what's it rated for? Mar 04 17:18:01 1A Mar 04 17:18:15 This is a SpeedEvil or DocScrutinizer question, but I'd say less than 700 or 800mA and it's unlikely to meet a fast definition. Mar 04 17:18:18 Yes. Mar 04 17:18:22 But I dont know if it shorts D+ and D- Mar 04 17:18:26 The factory one is 1.2A Mar 04 17:18:31 Ah, hmm. Mar 04 17:18:53 Does it charge? Mar 04 17:19:06 My 0th order answer would be 'get out your DMM' Mar 04 17:19:53 yeah it charges (or it woul but says it is full) Mar 04 17:20:19 I couldn't I use a multimeter? Mar 04 17:22:11 DMM = Digital MultiMeter Mar 04 17:22:31 measure between the D+ and D- pins - if shorted, it will fast charge Mar 04 17:22:35 flexxxv is a steampunk hipster Mar 04 17:22:44 he only uses analog equipment Mar 04 17:22:58 zooming into hildon-desktop is fun Mar 04 17:23:10 it's a shame some patches on gitorious were ignored Mar 04 17:23:18 hejos: the exact comment was iirc that someone would need to get the host patches in order and preferably mainlined Mar 04 17:23:43 :P not too easy to measure these pin... need some old cable Mar 04 17:24:15 well SpeedEvil was into measuring pins before it became mainstream Mar 04 17:28:26 what does 200 Ihm means? Mar 04 17:28:39 (between D+ and D-) Mar 04 17:30:05 Steampunk hipster? I'm gonna have to remember that one. Mar 04 17:41:14 MohammadAG: i am trying to troubleshoot system not wanting to uboot into maemo pk46. the uboot-pr13 boots just fine. any way to see what happens after "Starting kernel ..." ? Mar 04 17:42:33 i have tried all combinations, making sure pk46 and modules are installed correctly, finally reflashed rootfs and did a clean u-boot install but situation is still the same Mar 04 17:42:51 used HAM for the install Mar 04 17:44:08 yesterday i tried the same, after extracting pk46 kernel from deb and flashing it directly (from a linux box) it would boot, when i create a combined image, i get always the same result (as with u-boot-power): "Starting kernel..." Mar 04 17:44:19 MohammadAG: any idea? Mar 04 18:01:39 flexxxv: for N900 this means fastcharge Mar 04 18:02:16 flexxxv: only when measured at charger output :-P Mar 04 18:03:13 great Mar 04 18:03:16 one charger less Mar 04 18:04:09 My Camera also needs micro usb for chargin :D Mar 04 18:07:09 yeah, micro-usb now is kinda defacto standard for charging (at least in china and EU) - nevertheless they found some dozen creative ways how to use those 5 pins for charging, so an apple charger won't work with Nokia, and odds are your camera charger is using still another scheme to indicate / enable fastcharging Mar 04 18:07:36 microusb sucks Mar 04 18:07:46 old nokia connectors were so much more robust Mar 04 18:07:46 china sucks Mar 04 18:08:07 EU sucks Mar 04 18:08:15 DocScrutinizer sucks Mar 04 18:10:45 I still haven't experienced any probs with micro usb. (N900, other cellphone, mouse etc) Mar 04 18:13:41 hi Mar 04 18:14:23 * DocScrutinizer neither Mar 04 18:14:31 why did my MyDocs file system become read-only? Mar 04 18:14:46 rounds endurance of micro-usb is higher than mini-usb Mar 04 18:15:15 Venemo_N900, fsck it Mar 04 18:15:16 Venemo_N900: my suggestion is that you use a computer (via usb mass storage) to backup it, then fsck/scandisk it, then restart n900. Mar 04 18:15:38 eh Mar 04 18:15:47 and why did it become messed up? Mar 04 18:15:51 no need to restart, just umount, fsck, mount Mar 04 18:16:09 can I do it from the N900 alone? Mar 04 18:16:09 unsafe removal Mar 04 18:16:18 yeah Mar 04 18:16:22 how? Mar 04 18:16:28 Venemo_N900: beacuse you don't know why it happened is why I suggest you back it up. Just in case... Mar 04 18:16:31 with 5 cups of coffe Mar 04 18:16:47 ;-P Mar 04 18:17:05 javispedro, understandable Mar 04 18:17:07 umount /dev/mmcblk0p1; fsck -a /dev/mmcblk0p1; mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /home/user/MyDocs Mar 04 18:17:11 DocScrutinizer, hahaha Mar 04 18:17:27 something along the line umount; fsck.ext3; reboot Mar 04 18:17:43 DocScrutinizer, vfat* Mar 04 18:17:49 *cough* Mar 04 18:17:53 time for 12648430 ☕ Mar 04 18:18:14 :P Mar 04 18:18:32 umount: cannot umount /home/user/MyDocs: Device or resource busy Mar 04 18:18:59 this is why you _always_ suggest to restart when doing support ;) Mar 04 18:19:08 close whatever's using it Mar 04 18:19:12 ehh Mar 04 18:19:41 but why the hell is it busy? only the irc app and terminal are running Mar 04 18:20:26 anyway, I'll do it when I get home and take a backup as javispedro suggested Mar 04 18:20:47 thx Mar 04 18:20:57 Venemo_N900: install backupmenu, it has a fsck option for all fs, early during boot when they aren't yet mounted Mar 04 18:21:06 (or force the umount) Mar 04 18:21:07 umount -l ... Mar 04 18:21:14 wow Mar 04 18:21:17 that does not force it Mar 04 18:21:25 it does a lazy unmount, which could actually be dangerous here Mar 04 18:21:41 :-P Mar 04 18:21:50 can't you tell what file handles are open? Mar 04 18:22:13 n900 has lsof iirc Mar 04 18:22:27 (on stock busybox I mean) Mar 04 18:22:44 lardman: just read, what do you mean? Mar 04 18:22:58 hejos: re host mode? Mar 04 18:23:55 I mean Mar 04 18:24:07 it's not possible to apply that patches because Mar 04 18:24:23 there are also the nokia patches and the H-E-N patches Mar 04 18:24:26 right? Mar 04 18:24:41 you would need to change the patchset Mar 04 18:24:50 or the hen patches are just mainline patches? Mar 04 18:24:52 but there's no reason why you couldn't do that Mar 04 18:25:09 uhm Mar 04 18:25:12 I've not compared so I don't know Mar 04 18:25:16 fuser -k Mar 04 18:25:43 but basically the kernel version has changed, you'd need to rebase the host mode patches and either keep them for your use, or try to get them into mainline Mar 04 18:26:12 yes exactly, the kernel version is changed so even applying those patches Mar 04 18:26:20 wut? Mar 04 18:26:27 only to that files it's very very very possible that it doesn't compile Mar 04 18:26:43 hejos: of course, I've no doubt they won't even apply Mar 04 18:26:45 h-e-n patches never will go mainline :-P Mar 04 18:27:25 what's the problem? Mar 04 18:27:39 in which case hejos will need to maintain a patchset against the current Meego kernel, which is what hen does now against the Meego kernel afaiu Mar 04 18:27:44 DocScrutinizer: yes but I mean, h-e-n patches are based on mainline right? Mar 04 18:27:53 no Mar 04 18:27:59 uhm Mar 04 18:28:02 based on the Maemo kernel afaiu Mar 04 18:28:03 lcuk: just read your msg. you think it's not that easy to schedule a 'power on', right? Mar 04 18:28:15 nah, they are on top of nokia patchset Mar 04 18:28:32 so maemo, yes Mar 04 18:28:45 but what Nokia does in particular? Mar 04 18:28:53 who knows Mar 04 18:29:00 and why the host mode doesn't work on Meego Mar 04 18:29:09 Meego it's a new kernel Mar 04 18:29:13 there should be the host mode Mar 04 18:29:20 now that's an interesting question Mar 04 18:29:21 stupid question maybe Mar 04 18:29:49 maybe they got a completely different musb-core stack Mar 04 18:30:01 are you speaking about Meego? Mar 04 18:30:05 yes Mar 04 18:30:08 k Mar 04 18:30:19 the patches aren't upstream Mar 04 18:30:21 but doesn't work for sure? Mar 04 18:30:33 the usb host on meego Mar 04 18:30:38 I heard (and know) mainline is some patches ahead with musbcore Mar 04 18:30:39 afaik no one tried Mar 04 18:31:08 and meego bases on mainline afaik Mar 04 18:31:10 k Mar 04 18:31:35 maybe I can try meego Mar 04 18:31:44 what's the main disadvantage? Mar 04 18:31:51 what doesn't work? Mar 04 18:31:56 ?? Mar 04 18:32:08 in meego? Mar 04 18:32:12 yep Mar 04 18:32:15 meego + n900 Mar 04 18:32:23 I guess installing angrybirds won't work Mar 04 18:32:27 I mean which features of the n900 don't work Mar 04 18:32:42 angrybirds works i think Mar 04 18:32:52 it's just a game Mar 04 18:33:06 are you a developer? Mar 04 18:33:07 hejos: your justification was that you required a more modern version of something or other wasn't it? Mar 04 18:33:16 yes Mar 04 18:33:21 so s/angrybords/arbitrary maemo apps/ Mar 04 18:33:30 so you should trade off the effort of moving the patches forward vs your code backwards Mar 04 18:33:41 I want to try the last version of our usb controller Mar 04 18:33:51 Yep MohammadAG Mar 04 18:35:29 so if you know about why your usbcontroller (whatever it be) needs newest kernel usb support, you also should know about the usb differences between maemo and meego Mar 04 18:36:14 and applying/adapting the h-e-n patches shouldn't be any hard for you Mar 04 18:36:20 I'm assuming this controller is a controller of something with usb control, as opposed to a controller of usb devices Mar 04 18:37:31 I guess that backporting your device driver would be significantly easier than moving the HEN patches forward to Meego, but I've not looked at either Mar 04 18:38:02 h-e-n patches are basically simple Mar 04 18:38:04 see you guys Mar 04 18:38:09 thx Mar 04 18:38:09 hejos: which particular kernel version intoduced the change in the usb driver that causes your problems? Mar 04 18:39:17 his problems are caused by git. Paul's commit is pretty clear Mar 04 18:39:47 ah well, I tried Mar 04 18:39:49 :) Mar 04 18:40:53 lardman: check h-e-n git, it's mainline + nokia patches + paul's h-e-n patches Mar 04 18:41:04 iirc Mar 04 18:41:08 ok Mar 04 18:41:17 not something I've ever used nor needed to Mar 04 18:41:36 but really it'd not surprising that the patches don't apply to a far newer kernel Mar 04 18:42:34 it's not a huge complicated patchset, and if it doesn't apply, then we seen some improvements in musb-core that are nice to have and might obsolete some of h-e-n Mar 04 18:42:40 not hard to figure Mar 04 18:42:49 it should apply with some offsets Mar 04 18:42:51 ah fair enough Mar 04 18:43:07 as I said, I've not seen either his driver nor the hen patches Mar 04 18:43:28 it would be better to try to move the patchset to the Meego kernel of course Mar 04 18:43:41 sure Mar 04 18:44:12 * lardman is facing the same issue with the Samsung patches for the Tab Mar 04 18:44:26 I can't see elementary problems, except maybe meego is missing quite some bits nokia contributed for musb-core that aren't mainline Mar 04 18:45:07 but meego is never using anything not mainline, so also won't ever use h-e-n :-P Mar 04 18:45:33 But like now, someone could maintain a patchset against the current Meego kernel Mar 04 18:45:35 as h-e-n has zero chance to ever go upstream Mar 04 18:45:47 sure Mar 04 18:45:55 could, if somebody cared Mar 04 18:46:05 I'm not interested in meego Mar 04 18:46:16 paul isn't as well afaik Mar 04 18:46:25 docscrutinizer: we'll get you there in the end, I hope Mar 04 18:46:47 xD Mar 04 18:46:48 so odds are you rather see a h-e-n debian than a h-e-n meego maintained somewhere XD Mar 04 18:47:01 stock player's shows Information not available Mar 04 18:47:03 (media player) Mar 04 18:47:14 I started mine, and it picked up song metadata right Mar 04 18:47:16 oh... Mar 04 18:47:46 I'd like to see an orderly move to Meego, assuming we have something usable Mar 04 18:47:51 FINALLY, i understand why "do you want to proceed? (y/n): y" "ok, arborting" happens Mar 04 18:48:01 Meego is dead Mar 04 18:48:30 due to it promting for y/n, but it expects an answer in my own language >.> Mar 04 18:48:39 (apt, that is) Mar 04 18:48:43 LOL Mar 04 18:48:45 "j" worked Mar 04 18:48:57 Yeah, that's annoying tbh Mar 04 18:49:17 pressing enter without a "y" works though Mar 04 18:49:19 LANG=C apt-get install foo Mar 04 18:49:30 MohammadAG: yeah Mar 04 18:49:36 but still annoying Mar 04 18:49:48 it needs answer in local locale Mar 04 18:49:53 but asks question in english Mar 04 18:49:57 idiotic, a clear bug in apt-get or I18n Mar 04 18:50:02 aka .po Mar 04 18:50:02 god this fails, I restarted Nokia's player and it still says Information not available Mar 04 18:52:07 MohammadAG: that'S because the string "commandment 1: I am your mediaplayer. You shalt not have other mediaplayers than me" is accidentally missing in Nokia mediaplayer Mar 04 18:52:34 DocScrutinizer: i don't think he believes in 12 commandments Mar 04 18:52:38 or was it 10 Mar 04 18:52:43 13 Mar 04 18:53:01 DocScrutinizer, nah, it's because Nokia's player heaviliy interacts with tracker Mar 04 18:53:02 what religion has 13 commandments? Mar 04 18:53:11 mine :-P Mar 04 18:53:12 hmm Mar 04 18:53:15 pastafarianizm? Mar 04 18:53:21 sm* Mar 04 18:53:23 mine talks to mafw, which talks to tracker Mar 04 18:53:35 and for metadata, I fetch it directly from the file with mafw Mar 04 18:53:50 coooooool Mar 04 18:54:38 so it's almost there for working without friggin trackershit Mar 04 18:54:40 so basically, the closed mediaplayer is made of shitty code Mar 04 18:55:04 like all closed Nokia code Mar 04 18:55:12 and open too Mar 04 18:55:16 modest? :p Mar 04 18:55:22 Modest is terribly shitty Mar 04 18:56:12 that disproves my assumption shitty code and embarrassment i smain reason for Nokia keeping things closed Mar 04 18:57:17 well, mediaplayer source is useless as you can't compile it without the gfx-accel .h Mar 04 18:57:32 and those never will go FOSS Mar 04 18:57:38 hmm Mar 04 18:57:41 though I dunno why Mar 04 18:57:45 why is it using gfx-accel? Mar 04 18:57:55 gstreamer should be accelerating directly Mar 04 18:57:56 for video pla.... errrrrr Mar 04 18:58:08 rrrright Mar 04 18:58:54 should Mar 04 18:59:04 see metadata and tracker X-P Mar 04 18:59:06 but isn't? Mar 04 18:59:08 heh Mar 04 19:00:47 hi Mar 04 19:01:09 I was thinking of adding the output of "pactl list" from my n900 Mar 04 19:01:40 btw I still feel like it's unknown yet how to playback video with superimposed graphic widgets (rew, play/pause, fwd et al) on N900 screen, while routing plain video to AV-jack Mar 04 19:02:02 pactl doesn't come with the default pulseaudio package, but I wanted the output so I compiled a binary myself and have it now Mar 04 19:02:10 for both superimposing the widgets, and not doing that on AV Mar 04 19:02:39 would somebody like to suggest some specific location in the wiki where this information would fit in=? Mar 04 19:03:02 err pactl, seems I got that Mar 04 19:03:27 IroN900:~# pactl --version Mar 04 19:03:29 pactl 0.9.15 Mar 04 19:03:30 Compiled with libpulse 0.9.15 Mar 04 19:03:32 Linked with libpulse 0.9.15 Mar 04 19:04:21 is there a single dbus command for deactivating the wireless device? found one for cellular radio, but none for wireless so far. http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control Mar 04 19:04:21 IroN900:~# apt-cache search pactl Mar 04 19:04:23 pulseaudio-utils - Command line tools for the PulseAudio sound server Mar 04 19:04:37 DocScrutinizer, aha ok thx Mar 04 19:05:04 on the pc it's in the same package, so I just thought it was excluded Mar 04 19:05:38 packaging on maemo is a bit different sometimes Mar 04 19:06:09 DocScrutinizer, http://i55.tinypic.com/ot0r5g.jpg Mar 04 19:06:16 dominikb_: nah, afail it's more involved than simple dbus-send Mar 04 19:06:30 btw, you probably noticed the zoom in, but it's still 800x480 Mar 04 19:06:48 that's the zoom in feature in hildon-desktop in the next CSSU update Mar 04 19:07:18 LOL it still shows cover art XP Mar 04 19:07:34 yeah, but the whole playlist is "Information not available" Mar 04 19:07:45 so is the label above the seekbar Mar 04 19:08:20 zoom in HD, that's a nice feature Mar 04 19:08:28 and there's a white line under the cover art Mar 04 19:08:28 hum... I never noticed there was a reflection in mediaplayer? Mar 04 19:08:36 javispedro, that's mine Mar 04 19:08:46 hahahaha Mar 04 19:08:53 then who's the "information not available" one? Mar 04 19:08:58 Nokia's Mar 04 19:08:59 xD Mar 04 19:09:05 :P Mar 04 19:09:46 * DocScrutinizer wonders what it sounds like to have both playback same song. Do both sync??? :-o Mar 04 19:09:50 DocScrutinizer: i found that savepress-script and to turn off WIFI they shut down the interface, unload the kernel module. and for restarting WIFI they have to do even more (http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=16190&d=1291669973). just thought that there was an easier path to that ... Mar 04 19:10:33 no, that's what I frequently hear devels talk about, for WLAN Mar 04 19:10:40 backend (MAFW) should sync them both Mar 04 19:10:43 DocScrutinizer, mafw's the backend, they should co-exist fine since mafw's doing the actual playback Mar 04 19:11:01 is it possible to change the input box in xchat to as it looks on desktop, or is it changed at source level? Mar 04 19:11:05 MohammadAG: javispedro: that's what I thought Mar 04 19:11:22 FIQ|n900, source code Mar 04 19:11:27 aw, ok Mar 04 19:11:36 change it from hildon_text_edit(?) to gtk_text_edit(?)* Mar 04 19:11:39 then compile Mar 04 19:11:47 DocScrutinizer: is what happens when one changes to "flight" mode open, i.e. accessible as source code or is that in some closed software component? ;) Mar 04 19:11:49 *cough* Mar 04 19:12:11 Well, if i had scratchbox set up :P Mar 04 19:12:20 dominikb_: nfi Mar 04 19:12:27 I'd guess closed Mar 04 19:13:34 DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks! Mar 04 19:13:36 dominikb_: it's a known issue WLAN kernel driver will eat batery until modprobe -r Mar 04 19:14:26 DocScrutinizer: ok, so it's wise to unload the kernel driver. i'll do that then. Mar 04 19:14:30 I don't think there's any subsystem that interfaces fro dbus to modprobe Mar 04 19:14:53 btw, one question Mar 04 19:15:07 how does one listen to dbus signals when the app's closed? Mar 04 19:15:22 if there's any then it's called ICD2 -> closed source Mar 04 19:15:30 Like, how do I listen to the dbus signal that requests the now playing window Mar 04 19:16:25 dbus has some methods for so called proxies, and it can start up the original process when somebody talks to the proxy - is what I seem have heard sometime Mar 04 19:17:57 this won't work for signals, for obvious reasons - signals aren't associated to any target so target can't have a proxy Mar 04 19:18:19 back Mar 04 19:18:19 you need a daemon like dbus-scripting then Mar 04 19:19:17 still you got the problem of "target" missing the signal that caused the "target" startup Mar 04 19:20:06 so dbus-scripting saemon would have to resend this particular signal in a modified way only to the started process Mar 04 19:21:34 nfc what's a "now playing signal" Mar 04 19:22:00 moo RST38h Mar 04 19:22:05 javispedro: heya Mar 04 19:22:10 shouldn't this be a message rather than a signal? Mar 04 19:22:43 DocScrutinizer, it's a signal for the stock player to open the now playing window Mar 04 19:22:48 nm, I don't want to know that Mar 04 19:23:06 you can see it when you click the stock mediaplayer widget Mar 04 19:28:42 random twitter to irc crossover Mar 04 19:28:43 http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/43753764334735360 Mar 04 19:29:03 * RST38h says hello Mar 04 19:29:59 * SpeedEvil says fish. Mar 04 19:30:37 RST38h, \o Mar 04 19:32:17 * javispedro ponders when's stupid bill gates going to push w7 sp1 x64 to him. he's surely going to choose the busiest day ever instead of a light weekend. Mar 04 19:32:52 turn off automatic updates Mar 04 19:33:39 good point. Mar 04 19:33:56 the ideapad spent more than four hours to install it. you've been warned. Mar 04 19:34:20 Ideapad is feeble Mar 04 19:34:36 javispedro, it has to be there already Mar 04 19:34:42 I mean the SP1 patch Mar 04 19:35:02 but it's not FORCED, but if you go to Windows Update without clicking anything you'll read "1 important update is available" Mar 04 19:35:15 "Windows 7 Service Pack 1 for x64-based Systems" Mar 04 19:35:20 it'll be forced in months Mar 04 19:35:23 * javispedro comes from that dialog, and he saw nothing save for the usual crap Mar 04 19:35:33 weird Mar 04 19:35:41 all my computers have the update available. Mar 04 19:35:48 but i haven't install it yet Mar 04 19:35:50 installed Mar 04 19:37:20 sp1 is tiny anyway Mar 04 19:37:30 tiny!!! Mar 04 19:37:36 if you've been installing all normal updates, sp1 is like a 15mb install Mar 04 19:37:41 hah! Mar 04 19:38:25 more like 500... Mar 04 19:38:52 well, it was a 15mb download and about a 30 second install on my desktop Mar 04 19:39:07 the ideapad spent more than four hours to install it Mar 04 19:39:10 slightly smaller on my tablet, but a few mins to install Mar 04 19:43:09 hi there Mar 04 19:44:40 is there any kind of application error log on the N900? Mar 04 19:45:02 videorecording is broken and i want to check why :) Mar 04 19:45:25 Afternoon, all. :3 Mar 04 19:46:41 Is there any way to disable the magnetic sensor for the internal SD card on the N800? Mar 04 19:47:29 I seem to have... misplaced my battery cover. >_> Mar 04 19:50:34 Anyone? Mar 04 19:54:24 jakemaheu, never owned an N800, but a custom kernel should fix it Mar 04 19:56:41 * jakemaheu isn't a kernel hacker. :P Mar 04 19:57:06 it's just a case of commenting out some lines Mar 04 19:57:16 Is fanoush still in the biz? Mar 04 19:57:25 but I don't have an N800, so I'm basing this off what I know from the N900 Mar 04 19:57:43 think not :( Mar 04 19:58:09 :< he was the bomb with the 770 Mar 04 19:58:13 can i lunch camera in terminal to see the application errors? Mar 04 19:59:11 should, i can launch mbarcode and it spits out debug mesages Mar 04 19:59:26 ymv, though Mar 04 19:59:31 *ymmv Mar 04 19:59:38 the cam app only crash on taking videos Mar 04 19:59:47 taking pictures works Mar 04 20:00:08 it's videocamera then? Mar 04 20:00:20 which device do you use? Mar 04 20:00:34 n900 Mar 04 20:01:02 Ahhh, not sure, then. Mar 04 20:03:35 damn Mar 04 20:04:10 jakemaheu: use arbitrary other magnet :-D Mar 04 20:04:37 time to grab the source for the turbo-diablo kernel ;D Mar 04 20:04:44 ThreeM: overclocked? Mar 04 20:05:04 it was, but now it runs with stock clock Mar 04 20:05:19 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/04/doj_investgates_mpeg_la_over_vp8_attack/ <- so I guess you need to be google to get anything like this going... Mar 04 20:05:21 damage done by OC persistes Mar 04 20:05:23 ahh but! Mar 04 20:05:26 undervolted Mar 04 20:05:33 irrelevant Mar 04 20:05:50 anything else runs fine Mar 04 20:05:52 except it might actually cause the errors whan undervolt in effect now Mar 04 20:06:02 ThreeM: doesn't matter Mar 04 20:06:54 odds are it's completely unrelated, but there's a non-zero chance OC fried the GFX core video cam part Mar 04 20:07:12 and undervolting doesn't help anything to make OC more safe Mar 04 20:07:21 i have set up the clock about 50mhz higher to 650mhz, so i dont beleive that the error cause by oc Mar 04 20:07:47 nah, that shouldn't cause a lot of damage in the short term Mar 04 20:08:11 though I never heard 650 is a valid core clock freq Mar 04 20:08:29 or it was 750, ok 100mhz higher Mar 04 20:08:57 only way to verify it is to flash to stock again i think Mar 04 20:09:49 sigh Mar 04 20:10:04 changing software doesn't fix damaged hardware Mar 04 20:15:02 yeah, so the idea to flash stock system without any additional apps is actually the only right thing to verify if it's hw related or not Mar 04 20:16:14 ok, good to have the option to backup Mar 04 20:16:17 i give it a try Mar 04 20:16:33 there might be niche cases where a hw part is broken that only shows when running non-stock sw, but that's rare Mar 04 20:17:26 its the only function to be broken, then cpu damage i gues other things also have problems... but im not very similiar with ARM cpus Mar 04 20:17:55 early stages of OC EM deterioration might show as failures occuring at OC frequencies that formerly ran without problems, for example Mar 04 20:18:21 Gotta love life's way of reminding you you're at its mercy... Mar 04 20:18:32 What's that about the cobbler's son always being the one without shoes? Mar 04 20:18:39 nah, EM will happen at one spot, one gate, one MMOSFET first Mar 04 20:18:52 I work in telco, and the DSL line at my flat is maxing out at an amazing... 1.3MBit/s Mar 04 20:20:31 EPIC Mar 04 20:20:43 Apparently, while they were wiring the connection yesterday, they thought it'd be a good idea to connect me to the MDF about 7km away... Mar 04 20:20:50 Rather than the one less than 2km... Mar 04 20:21:03 also EM is causing statistical effects first, like more and more 1+1=3 results, but not always Mar 04 20:21:03 7km is closer than 2km Mar 04 20:21:08 duh Mar 04 20:21:34 This being said... The modem is effing cool though... Mar 04 20:21:52 crashanddie: usually they don't have a choice Mar 04 20:21:59 Remote control has motion sensor, even the modem has a tilt sensor so it can display the information based on if you hold it horizontally or vertically Mar 04 20:22:00 crashanddie: There is only one wire Mar 04 20:22:09 Why? Mar 04 20:22:32 SpeedEvil: they have a choice, my neighbour is on the right MDF. Mar 04 20:22:43 Oh - it has a screen, I guerss Mar 04 20:22:50 WUT? modem with autorotate? o.O Mar 04 20:22:59 SpeedEvil: and the MDF I need to be on has exactly 1338 free lines Mar 04 20:23:08 DocScrutinizer: yeah, lol Mar 04 20:23:21 Modem has internal HD of 250Gb, available as NAS Mar 04 20:23:31 surely it doesn't have gigabit ethernet =) Mar 04 20:23:32 DocScrutinizer, it rotates the bits 90degrees to align them correctly coming out of the port Mar 04 20:23:33 * SpeedEvil is guessingthatis not Medium Density Fibreboard. Mar 04 20:23:43 lcuk: :-D Mar 04 20:23:45 lcuk: Don't be so skeptical. Mar 04 20:23:57 lcuk: There are actually wireless devices that do that. Mar 04 20:23:58 lol SpeedEvil, that's exactly what i thought... MDF... hrm Mar 04 20:24:00 instead of 0 and 1, it gives 0 and - Mar 04 20:24:07 Encode data in polarisation. Mar 04 20:24:11 crashanddie_, did you get KZ3? Mar 04 20:24:15 rm_work & SpeedEvil: main distribution frame Mar 04 20:24:15 different issue SpeedEvil Mar 04 20:24:21 KZ3? Mar 04 20:24:32 King Zeus the 3rd? Mar 04 20:24:41 Killzone 3 Mar 04 20:24:48 crashanddie: Is that like a DSLAM? Mar 04 20:24:56 yep Mar 04 20:25:02 prolly Mar 04 20:25:11 SpeedEvil: oh, DSLAM is international is it? Mar 04 20:25:17 didn't know DSLAM is international Mar 04 20:25:20 Everyone here in France keeps talking about "NRA" Mar 04 20:25:32 in german it clls DSLAM Mar 04 20:25:58 yeah, but they translate it to "DSL Anschalt Multiplexer" Mar 04 20:26:16 while it actually is Access I guess Mar 04 20:26:46 http://francois04.free.fr/liste_dslam.php?nra=KEN66 Mar 04 20:26:49 :D hurray for damn small linux Mar 04 20:26:50 That's the one I want to be on Mar 04 20:27:18 http://francois04.free.fr/liste_dslam.php Mar 04 20:27:22 this is the one they put me on Mar 04 20:27:29 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSLAM Mar 04 20:27:37 anyway Mar 04 20:27:39 crashanddie_: last link was not valid Mar 04 20:27:49 (missing nra) Mar 04 20:27:52 http://francois04.free.fr/liste_dslam.php?nra=ELN66 Mar 04 20:28:12 the modem is damn cool though... the TV module has a bluray player? lol Mar 04 20:29:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoMnfda0dR0 Mar 04 20:30:15 Bonus points if you notice they show "1337" as the time during the video Mar 04 20:31:00 see how most routers suck Mar 04 20:31:10 and this is the TV interface: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaoYq8lEXYg&feature=related Mar 04 20:31:17 they even put a dect base into that one and I'm sure it won't even get as hot as a stupid retail one Mar 04 20:31:24 web browser et all Mar 04 20:31:50 with multi-tab browsing :D Mar 04 20:32:25 anyway Mar 04 20:32:33 I'm off for the night, need to meet some friends and stuff Mar 04 20:32:50 take care people Mar 04 20:32:59 cya crashanddie_ Mar 04 20:33:58 oh, javispedro here you see it on its "foot" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp5BO1opiBM&feature=related Mar 04 20:35:48 and the accelerometer Mar 04 20:36:33 that is one kickass router =) Mar 04 20:38:23 if it actually works then yes Mar 04 20:38:59 the fot is extreme nonsense however Mar 04 20:39:02 foot Mar 04 20:39:04 Are you sure it's an accellerometer? Mar 04 20:39:23 I have a digital picture frame with a little rotaryswitch to do orientation Mar 04 20:42:23 steelball switch Mar 04 20:48:42 tbh I'm not amused by IP-TV and the fact they got immanent control about what and when you can and actually do watch Mar 04 20:49:24 they can't already do that? Mar 04 20:49:34 localized, even personalized news - not a nice future Mar 04 20:50:33 what about the transcendent control? Mar 04 20:50:33 jakemaheu: I don't think anybody can monitor what I am watching on my TV right now, without placing highly sophisticated spy equipment next corner Mar 04 20:51:15 do you have a cable box for on-demand? Mar 04 20:51:30 OTA braodcast by definition is one-to-many and anonymous Mar 04 20:53:30 ahhh Mar 04 20:59:07 * nox- satellite dish, same Mar 04 21:00:23 and also, iptv `steals' adsl bandwidth when in use... Mar 04 21:07:48 video-on-demand is basically BS. If I want to watch a movie, I'm free to download it from any commercial site, and for true television as it's meant to be, OTA or equivalent one-to-may technologies are the right choice, no need for one-to-one botch to emulate OTA Mar 04 21:08:22 s/-may/-many/ Mar 04 21:08:23 DocScrutinizer meant: video-on-demand is basically BS. If I want to watch a movie, I'm free to download it from any commercial site, and for true television as it's meant to be, OTA or equivalent one-to-many technologies are the right choice, no need for one-to-one botch to em... Mar 04 21:19:45 if somebody is able to read french, infos about N950 here : http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/62288-meego-nokia-n950-caracteristiques.htm Mar 04 21:21:13 Spydemon: what do you want to know Mar 04 21:21:13 768mb ram Mar 04 21:21:22 1.2ghz cpu Mar 04 21:21:26 16gb or 32gb Mar 04 21:21:52 4 row keyboard Mar 04 21:21:57 4g? wtf Mar 04 21:22:07 looks thin <3 Mar 04 21:24:39 screen 4 fingers Mar 04 21:25:11 no date Mar 04 21:26:06 4g http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G Mar 04 21:26:10 i know Mar 04 21:26:14 what kind of 4g? Mar 04 21:27:01 not specified Mar 04 21:27:09 i know that too :) Mar 04 21:27:35 if he will look like photos, i find N900 cuter :P Mar 04 21:29:14 but he say source= different sources not specified. Mar 04 21:30:17 The N950 was presented by Rich Green, CTO of Nokia, during a conference dedicated to developers Mar 04 21:30:42 on website. not me :) Mar 04 21:30:50 I thought it was simply mentioned in a presentation. Mar 04 21:30:54 Or is this more thanthat. Mar 04 21:31:07 specs and shit, yo Mar 04 21:31:21 i think google can tell you more Mar 04 21:31:50 o_O 3d even... Mar 04 21:32:06 i think webmaster just search on google Mar 04 21:33:50 hm Mar 04 21:35:01 no hdmi... Mar 04 21:39:41 re Mar 04 21:39:51 ok guys, hardware issnt broken Mar 04 21:40:09 after reflash to stock PR1.3 videorecording works again Mar 04 21:40:48 DocScrutinizer , you made me frighten :) Mar 04 21:41:10 good :-D Mar 04 21:41:54 but why it fails before? i have no idea how to check it :) Mar 04 21:42:59 me neither Mar 04 21:43:17 might be fcam kernel drivers or whatever Mar 04 21:44:02 i had remove the fcam driver, but it dont fix the problem Mar 04 21:44:36 but anyway, i dont mess up the device :) i will never overclock again :) Mar 04 21:45:46 so N950 "official" news, and first website that has it is a french one ? o.O Mar 04 21:46:12 sorry I simply have no trust in french websites Mar 04 21:46:15 :-P Mar 04 21:46:44 don't worry - I don't trust chinese websites either XD Mar 04 21:47:42 hehe Mar 04 21:47:52 link? Mar 04 21:48:03 i will verified it for you ;) Mar 04 21:48:33 oh dear my english today is the best :( Mar 04 21:48:35 mini-USB MUHAHAHAHA french Mar 04 21:48:58 see scrollback Mar 04 21:49:18 (for link) Mar 04 21:54:36 l'ecran tactile capacitive - MEH piss off Mar 04 21:57:25 just another case of "wait iPhone, *I* can do that" - instead of Nokia doing something *smart* and adopting these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc cute Stantum MT Mar 04 21:59:44 see which direction meego is heading. a metoo-iPhone-clone, useless for true tablet use Mar 04 22:00:50 CalDAV is so weird... Mar 04 22:00:51 that's what Nokia thinks is best way to "differentiate" Mar 04 22:00:55 MEH Mar 04 22:02:01 always difernetiating to make uterly clear "we're second best, and trying hard to never ever regain pole position" Mar 04 22:02:36 DocScrutinizer: that's exactly, what I thought, when I booted meego on my N900. Mar 04 22:03:54 they are throwing away everything good and copy iOS really cheap. Mar 04 22:04:07 yeah Mar 04 22:05:03 instead of integrating the really good things of the iPhone. Mar 04 22:05:39 binning the bits where they differ from iPhone crap, and trying to improve on the copied parts so they get as close as possible to #1 on hteir #2 postion. That's a sure path to always-second never-pole Mar 04 22:05:50 like CalDAV/CardDAV (instead of the stupid and broken-by-design SyncML) Mar 04 22:09:50 DocScrutinizer: something that really shocked me, was how fast NITdroid runs. Mar 04 22:10:22 much faster than meego Mar 04 22:10:44 ([2011-03-04 19:45:25] docscrutinizer: we'll get you there in the end, I hope) forget it, with this product policy it's getting more unlikely every day Mar 04 22:12:05 I'm not interested in meego GUI, meego concept, and neither in what they obviously plan to roll out as meego-device Mar 04 22:13:47 DocScrutinizer: what's the alternative? Android? Mar 04 22:15:46 Treibholz: meego is completely ignorant about special situation on a mobile phone (low ram, slow writes to swap, battery power conservation by consequent use of IRQ driven peripherals, whatever) They simply treat handset UX (NB the term) as a usual desktop (possibly even x86 arch centric) with a special skin Mar 04 22:16:32 DocScrutinizer, sounds bad ( Mar 04 22:17:02 DocScrutinizer: well, that's not very different to Maemo. Mar 04 22:18:22 DocScrutinizer, http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition Mar 04 22:19:14 nope, that's *very* different to maemo, where even kernel seen massive special work done by Nokia to tailor it to OMAP arch and all the system around it. Exemplary case: lis302dl driver vs lis3lv02 driver Mar 04 22:20:12 DocScrutinizer: and that's kind of what I like at Maemo. The n900 ist not a good phone, but a good computer for my pocket. And I can make calls with it! (Isn't that amazing?!) Mar 04 22:20:16 in short: maemo using a nice IRQ based design for acceleormeter while meego is abusing a joystick driver that incidentally was found upstream and used same chip Mar 04 22:21:14 maemo driver (C) Nokia and tailored to fit N900 Mar 04 22:21:27 DocScrutinizer: but Maemo also uses too much swap and the n900 has not enough RAM. Mar 04 22:21:59 DocScrutinizer, can I ask, does MeeGo do anything right? Mar 04 22:22:09 not maemo uses too much swap, the apps are too greedy Mar 04 22:22:25 setting swappines to 100 is not what I call usefull. Mar 04 22:22:53 lcuk: dunno, basically I'm not interested in what's done right in meego as there's enough that's done terribly wrong Mar 04 22:24:03 I'm not interested in meego en todo Mar 04 22:25:42 btw. What are the 1300 Meego-developer do all day, I read so much about? Mar 04 22:25:43 they fsckd up for ~ one year now, I'm not seeing things rapidly changing all of a sudden Mar 04 22:26:09 developing tablet UX Mar 04 22:26:20 Treibholz: ^^^ Mar 04 22:26:29 Treibholz, ooh where did you pull actual figures out from? Mar 04 22:27:08 lcuk: wait, I'll try to find the links again. Though they may be in German... Mar 04 22:30:16 while meego code development may be more or less open, the system architecture design clearly wasn't, that's why Nokia and Intel made some poor decisions that are biting their back now and will continue to do that for long time. This starts on rationale to base kernel on a particular branch and doesn't stop at UX design rules Mar 04 22:30:55 DocScrutinizer, the tablet ux is nice and shiny Mar 04 22:31:13 for iPhone fanbois, yes Mar 04 22:31:32 oooh tablet, yes Mar 04 22:31:42 maybe, I'm not interested in tablets Mar 04 22:32:10 we're talking handset here Mar 04 22:32:34 so the change in focus for handset that I jsut showed Mar 04 22:32:56 and clearly an OS tailored to meet tablet needs and requirements is a poor match for a phone - that's meego foundation bug Mar 04 22:33:10 what do you mean by "base kernel on a particular branch"? develop their kernel like a fork, rather than as a patchset for the mainstream kernel? Mar 04 22:33:31 lcuk: http://thehandheldblog.com/2011/03/02/nokia-meego-devs-50-percent-bonus/ they even talk about 6500 devs! Mar 04 22:34:36 BCMM: basically meego isn't accepting the need to have a patchset to tailor the kernel for the platform. If it's not main then it is not accepted Mar 04 22:34:43 lcuk: http://www.golem.de/1102/81366.html here the say 600 Mar 04 22:34:44 Treibholz, no, it says engineers Mar 04 22:35:26 DocScrutinizer, you are insulting quite a few people here. But I guess you know that. Mar 04 22:35:28 that can mean people up and down the entire product spectrum Mar 04 22:35:40 I'm not insulting anybody Mar 04 22:35:40 not just those tip of the iceberg ones we see working publicly Mar 04 22:35:53 lcuk: and what else should an engineer do with meego? Mar 04 22:36:10 Treibholz, well since there has been public verification of a meego device Mar 04 22:36:26 perhaps you know quite a few of them might actually be engineering things in hardware Mar 04 22:36:53 evening mikhas \o Mar 04 22:37:10 heya Mar 04 22:37:55 Treibholz, watch a Wolkswagon advert, they have a great set where they show one engineer working out how to specifically make windows work or door seals or antennas or something Mar 04 22:38:08 Volkswagen, ahem Mar 04 22:38:12 mikhas: that's probably the problem meego gods feel insulted when somebody questions their decisions Mar 04 22:38:31 mikhas, it is a good example because theyshow what individuals do to make the whole product Mar 04 22:38:53 Or perhaps it's reason things are not discussed openly enough, when certain people complain about everything. Regardless of the outcome, they'll always find something. Mar 04 22:40:13 lol, yeah when there's enough to complain about, including the process itself, then you're likely to find a few bits. For sure closing down discussion is a good way to defend your decisions Mar 04 22:40:16 lcuk, VW has this: http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Volkswagens-Incredible-Glass-Factory/A_2538/article.html Mar 04 22:40:35 How long the CSSU upgrade/installation is supposed to take? I've had it now working for maybe an hour. THe screen's empty, keyboard and suspend button lit the backlight but nothing can be seen.. Mar 04 22:41:08 mikhas, :O Mar 04 22:41:12 kudos Mar 04 22:41:57 the factory gets the materials by using the public tram service Mar 04 22:42:22 mikhas: the whole city belongs VW... Mar 04 22:42:47 Dresden belongs to VW? Nah ... ;-) Mar 04 22:42:58 Wolfsburg OTOH, perhaps ... Mar 04 22:43:01 ahh, not in Wolfsburg? Mar 04 22:43:09 nope, not this one Mar 04 22:43:18 Phaeton comes from Dresden. Mar 04 22:43:25 mikhas, Nokia building where qgil is are right in the heart of the town and do not include cafe and stuff afaik Mar 04 22:43:48 I remember reading how it helps to integrate the workforce in with the surroundings and obviously also helps local economy Mar 04 22:43:59 interesting concept Mar 04 22:44:14 I hope I remembered that correctly Mar 04 22:45:16 in the last 20 years a lot of money was put in the infrastructure of eastern Germany, so this is a quite good idea, to use it. Mar 04 22:50:15 found a brief thing on it Mar 04 22:50:16 http://mynokiablog.com/2011/02/05/nokias-new-us-hq-in-sunnyvale-california-silicon-valley/ Mar 04 22:50:30 Instead of creating a standalone enclosed campus, Nokia have renovated from bare skeleton a new corporate HQ. I’d say that fits Nokia’s green credentials. Nokia’s new building is close to amenities and the hundreds of new Nokia staff (and possibly their family) will revitalize the city with new business. Mar 04 22:51:00 * RST38h yawns Mar 04 22:51:11 hmm Mar 04 22:51:21 lcuk: Man, you should go work at Nokia's public relations Mar 04 22:51:56 * RST38h personally would like to see lcuk pitching the new WP7-based Nokia phone =) Mar 04 22:52:40 well depending on what club I use, I guess I could get it a couple of hundred yards at least Mar 04 22:53:00 hehe =) Mar 04 22:53:27 phone gulfing, now that sounds fun :) Mar 04 22:53:41 i would like to see revived development for n8x0 :) Mar 04 22:54:11 wow.. gizmo5 is shutting down.. bummer! Mar 04 22:54:45 There are already the phone throwing competitions in .fi, but usually the winning phones have been out of production for a decade :P Mar 04 22:54:50 merkavah, I just released new app for n8x0 Mar 04 22:55:04 yeah. what to do get new Sip provider Mar 04 22:55:09 cool Mar 04 22:55:28 infact, all the apps I write should work on 8x0 Mar 04 22:55:39 but, meh that is just because of how I started Mar 04 22:56:08 gizmo5 was the only free sip provider that integrated with google voice, no? Mar 04 22:56:17 seems a lot of stuff i see is around 2009 Mar 04 22:56:24 or less Mar 04 22:56:36 wacha making? Mar 04 22:56:37 merkavah, yeah but there are some Mar 04 22:56:46 afaik, puzzlemaster is one of the more recent games Mar 04 22:56:52 that now work on n8x0 Mar 04 22:56:59 that is written in Qt too Mar 04 22:57:11 all it usually takes is careful thought about using standard API Mar 04 22:57:12 lcuk: and I really love your work for that aspect (as well) - please keep it like that Mar 04 22:57:27 DocScrutinizer, it would be difficult not to Mar 04 22:57:41 i have a sipgate account, maybe have to put it on my 810 Mar 04 22:57:46 I would have to really fsck the code up to stop it from working! Mar 04 22:57:56 nah, it's too darn easy to forget about it and code botch Mar 04 22:58:04 though I do have a couple of bugs Mar 04 22:58:15 people do not like the top left corner dashboard switcher Mar 04 22:58:22 and think the back button is not needed Mar 04 22:58:32 (eascape and switcher are hardkeys on n8x0) Mar 04 22:58:37 merkavah: I'm using sipgate with stock diablo on N810, works like a charm Mar 04 22:59:33 $8~3 @9~ :k Mar 04 22:59:53 nice, doc :) Mar 04 23:00:37 i thought of mer but havent yet Mar 04 23:01:19 of course - depending on your particular router - you need to open up and forward some ports, possibly disable SIP-ALG, etc. But that's not related to maemo SIP support in any way Mar 04 23:01:22 not sure if this question is best asked here, but I've recently installed the pidgin-otr from extras-devel and though it installed just fine when I try to initiate a private conversation I'm never prompted to select the method for handling the public/private key... just get an error that 'length error'. anyone know anything about this? Mar 04 23:01:36 CSSU anyone? How long is it supposed to install and what should I do if i've had black screen for ~hour? Backlight responses. Mar 04 23:02:05 10 min Mar 04 23:02:10 rhkfin, #maemo-ssu Mar 04 23:02:14 if installed just right now :) Mar 04 23:02:30 lcuk: been there, quiet.. Mar 04 23:02:46 :-P Mar 04 23:03:15 be patient :) Mar 04 23:04:46 AFNit Mar 04 23:19:55 general advice: when rebooting, unplug USB prior to device shutdown Mar 04 23:20:16 boot from battery, replug charger when system is up Mar 04 23:20:34 ahem DocScrutinizer, that is not general advice :P Mar 04 23:20:48 it can't hurt, no? Mar 04 23:20:55 general advice: tying your shoe laces correctly helps prevent accidents Mar 04 23:21:34 why does that matter though GeneralAntilles Mar 04 23:21:37 errr DocScrutinizer Mar 04 23:21:54 lcuk: how is optification dealing with act_dead on initial boot? Mar 04 23:23:25 I thought it's a very poor idea to interrupt the post-install optification copy process by a reboot. "powering up" device from ACT_DEAD is such a reboot though Mar 04 23:23:39 afaik Mar 04 23:24:18 well, maybe no complete reboot, but enough of a boot to kill of the copy halfway, if it got started in ACT_DEAD Mar 04 23:24:42 s/ of a / off a / Mar 04 23:24:43 DocScrutinizer meant: well, maybe no complete reboot, but enough off a boot to kill of the copy halfway, if it got started in ACT_DEAD Mar 04 23:24:49 DocScrutinizer, specifically not sure, since the optification stuff should have already either been done in postinst (if ssu) or already preinstalled yonks ago Mar 04 23:25:55 lcuk: after rootfs flash, the first bot shouldn't be one that enters ACT_DEAD, no? Mar 04 23:26:21 IDK Mar 04 23:26:31 * lcuk hones Mar 04 23:26:33 t Mar 04 23:30:20 lcuk: I don't know either, so the advice isn't a hoax Mar 04 23:30:41 DocScrutinizer, I never said it was a hoax Mar 04 23:30:47 but context is everything Mar 04 23:30:55 this is not -ssu channel, and most people reboot normally Mar 04 23:31:31 generally an install that needs a reboot is considering that next bootup to enter full working mode, not ACT_DEAD and get interrupted after 10s when user decides to "switch on" the device Mar 04 23:31:34 had you prefixed it with saying "when doing updates ..." Mar 04 23:32:26 ok, granted Mar 04 23:33:43 general advice: when rebooting according to advice of any installation process (or reboot triggered automatically by such process), unplug USB prior to device shutdown Mar 05 00:00:55 factoid: N900 keyboard matrix isn't made to cope with arbitrary N-key rollover. Don't expect all 3-key and esp 4-key combinations to work reliably Mar 05 00:02:33 there's a list of "not working" 3-key combos: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard - for 4-key combos (ctrl-shift-blue-) you're on your own Mar 05 00:05:19 (another nice example why N900 is NOT just a miniaturized PC, and why you need to keep in mind this fact even while designing userland apps) Mar 05 00:05:45 well, how many key presses typical pc keyboard can do Mar 05 00:05:58 your standard average keyboard can only do like 4-5 Mar 05 00:06:07 depends, usually they have full N-key rollover Mar 05 00:06:08 and only some limited combinations Mar 05 00:06:41 at very least fo all the qualifier keys Mar 05 00:06:48 not all of hem Mar 05 00:06:57 gaming keyboards can do like 10 keys Mar 05 00:07:16 my old ibm keyboard couldn't do left+right alt at the same time Mar 05 00:07:32 you hardly find any PC kbd that can't handle ctrl-shift-alt- Mar 05 00:08:00 new keyboard Mar 05 00:08:08 try like 5 years ago Mar 05 00:08:21 never found any Mar 05 00:10:56 i'm just watching tron Mar 05 00:11:16 and there is nice nix thing there Mar 05 00:11:26 around 22:55 Mar 05 00:11:42 he's using real nix commands and getting real results Mar 05 00:13:57 ah, i remember that scene :D Mar 05 00:16:26 jacekowski, did you bought that film? Mar 05 00:16:29 you are pirate Mar 05 00:16:53 ZogG: nope Mar 05 00:17:06 not in this case Mar 05 00:22:23 erm... is there an md5sum package for Diablo at a repository? Mar 05 00:23:00 (I could do with a .deb instead) Mar 05 00:36:57 Does the n900 come default with a screen protector already on it? Mar 05 00:37:05 No Mar 05 00:37:15 fellu: thanks. Mar 05 00:37:17 Just some black sticker Mar 05 00:37:25 Cannot see thru it Mar 05 00:37:57 You can. Mar 05 00:37:59 Sort-of. Mar 05 00:38:02 But not really. Mar 05 00:38:10 It's good enough to see the screen is working. Mar 05 00:38:18 And that the device has booted normally Mar 05 00:38:22 But not much more. Mar 05 00:38:44 yeah, anyway screen protectors really impair the nice sensitivity of the N900 touchscreen Mar 05 00:39:46 screen protectors arent needed anyway if you make use of a case + care Mar 05 00:40:42 depending on your usage patterns it might be worth considering a touchpanel swap for ~80EUR after some 2..4 years rather than to get annoyed about a 20bucks screen protector turning N900 in a dull piece of hw Mar 05 00:40:52 I disagree Mar 05 00:41:03 I find screen protectors completely essential Mar 05 00:41:15 I however tend to abuse my device accidentally. Mar 05 00:41:31 thats where the "care" part comes in :P Mar 05 00:41:35 I was gardening, and accidentally put the seccateurs in the wrong pocket, and bent down and up a hundred times. Mar 05 00:41:39 that's why I said "depending on your usage pattern..." Mar 05 00:41:44 Screen protector was damn near opaque. Mar 05 00:41:58 my n900 lives in its' leather case 100% of the time it's not being used Mar 05 00:42:15 On more rational usage - I got addicted to blocks for a bit. Mar 05 00:42:19 screen with no protector on it's still flawless Mar 05 00:42:24 nidO: nope, you also charge it ;-P Mar 05 00:42:26 That killed the screen. Mar 05 00:43:14 DocScrutinizer: yeah true fair enough, it lives in its' case whenever it's anywhere other than in my hands or on its' stand Mar 05 00:43:32 If you use fingers, then it's hard to scratch if that's how you use it Mar 05 00:43:41 Fingertips Mar 05 00:44:06 i use both fingers and stylus, but im always intentionally careful when using the stylus Mar 05 00:45:20 i've found that the stylus that comes with it can not scratch the screen Mar 05 00:45:30 Hard to IME tell when you've got a microscopic bit of grit on the stylus though. Mar 05 00:45:36 Which can scratch the screen. Mar 05 00:45:42 same with a finger Mar 05 00:45:58 well, you can feel microscopic objects with a fingertip actually, but still possible Mar 05 00:46:15 actually the single microscopic scar I got in one of the N900 screens was with fingernail when teher's been some sand or glass or whatever that stcked to that fingernail Mar 05 00:46:22 the stylus's that Fake was/is selling seem like theyre probably a bit better than the nokia one at avoiding scratches, the tip seems to be made of slightly softer plastic Mar 05 00:46:23 i did totally ruin a screen protector, before i stopped using them, by getting addicted to a game Mar 05 00:46:49 you could see all the in-game buttons on the screen protector when i got rid of it Mar 05 00:47:01 With a finger, it's _really_ hard to scratch the screen, even with a bit of grit - using the fingertip Mar 05 00:47:14 Not so with a nail, of course. Mar 05 00:47:38 Oddly, I found that a sharp green wood stylus was awesome from a 'not attracting grit' POV Mar 05 00:48:11 I used a japanese maple twig from a tree in the garden, lightly whittled Mar 05 00:48:31 :-D Mar 05 01:21:40 somthing went bad with my accounts :( Mar 05 01:23:05 everything was set to disabled , the passwords were gone and the display names were reset to the respective usernames, and it seems msetting things again doesn't make login work :( Mar 05 01:27:02 any idea what is going on? Mar 05 01:29:27 Android Market reviewers are idiots. Mar 05 01:29:55 gah, things are even worse, the Settings app is CTDing on launch Dx Mar 05 01:32:00 Evening. Mar 05 01:32:30 hm, somthing is seriouslly fucked up, can't open more than one terminal window anymore.... Mar 05 01:33:11 you clik on top bar Mar 05 01:33:19 and select new window there? Mar 05 01:34:01 that worked Mar 05 01:34:32 If there are any kernel hackers here, please ping me. :) Mar 05 01:34:42 don't ask to ask just ask Mar 05 01:34:56 control-shift-X isn't doing anything though Mar 05 01:35:07 TiagoTiago: try flashing it Mar 05 01:35:28 jakemaheu, convention usually says, present your question in a way which explains the problem efficiently and let people decide to answer Mar 05 01:35:45 don't got a PC avaiable (mine is down, mobo issues it seems) Mar 05 01:36:36 and it would be a pain to reinstall and set everything again, not to mention backing up all the individual files and folders i don't wanna loose Mar 05 01:36:56 what is the command to launch the Settings app from terminal? Mar 05 01:37:49 I lost the battery cover for my N800. Because of the sensor for the internal card slot, I can't use the card and swap file. Is there any way to disable the sensor? Mar 05 01:38:22 not really Mar 05 01:38:34 you could hack kernel to do it Mar 05 01:38:40 but rebuilding it is a pain Mar 05 01:38:48 just get a magnet Mar 05 01:38:57 and how to fuck you've lost a back cover? Mar 05 01:39:18 Or, suggest a place I can get a back cover.. Mar 05 01:39:42 ebay Mar 05 01:39:52 nope, checked Mar 05 01:40:07 where are you? Mar 05 01:40:14 US Mar 05 01:42:10 other than reflashing, can you think of any alternatives? Mar 05 01:42:47 what term are you using? Mar 05 01:43:02 me? Mar 05 01:43:13 yeah Mar 05 01:43:24 the one that comes with the N900 Mar 05 01:43:38 xterm, then? Mar 05 01:43:48 i think so Mar 05 01:45:12 jakemaheu: still same as suggested some hours ago: use an arbitrary magnet Mar 05 01:45:37 jakemaheu: what happened to your shortterm memory? Mar 05 01:45:47 i'd prefer to have a cover :[ Mar 05 01:46:41 that's no explanation why you ask same thing that got answered before already Mar 05 01:46:48 jakemaheu, ask on the maemo forums Mar 05 01:47:00 see if anyone has a spares/repairs device and will part with a cover Mar 05 01:47:28 and follow DocScrutinizer's advice with a magnet until you can get one Mar 05 01:47:50 alternatively, ask nokia Mar 05 01:48:32 is there a way i can get a list of installeted packages sorted by the order they were installed? Mar 05 01:50:48 why would you need sortorder install-time? Mar 05 01:51:11 TiagoTiago, yes there is something Mar 05 01:51:15 you can ls a folder Mar 05 01:51:23 and it has it in, but i cannot remember which folder Mar 05 01:51:39 DocScrutinizer, its good to know what you installed and the order you did it Mar 05 01:51:46 /var/apt/cche/bla Mar 05 01:51:46 because all things needed for something are clustered Mar 05 01:52:04 hmm, k Mar 05 01:52:05 i just asked exactly this in rpm Mar 05 01:52:06 I wanna see which packages got installed more recently to try uninstalling them and see if that fix things Mar 05 01:53:15 Whoops, forgot to charge my tablet :P Mar 05 01:53:22 ls -l /opt Mar 05 01:53:36 should kinda help a bit Mar 05 01:54:08 hm, seems FAPMAN lets you sort by date, is that really the install date? Mar 05 01:56:02 find /opt -executable -ls Mar 05 01:57:12 duh, nm. That's compile date usually Mar 05 01:57:22 ...it seems Mar 05 01:57:43 yeah i was just about to wonder... Mar 05 01:58:04 the debs are just unpacked, keeping timestamps intact Mar 05 01:58:14 yep Mar 05 01:59:14 so back to ls -l /var/cache/apt/archives/ Mar 05 02:00:41 meh, same Mar 05 02:01:11 isn't there a log somewhere that says what was installed when? Mar 05 02:03:49 btw, does the N900 got a wayto schedule a boottime file system checkup? Mar 05 02:04:19 iirc the power kernel tools had something Mar 05 02:04:43 not sure about ls -lc /var/cache/apt/archives/ Mar 05 02:05:57 TiagoTiago, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2009-02-08.log.html#t2009-02-08T01:20:48 Mar 05 02:06:35 hm Mar 05 02:07:00 TiagoTiago, plenty of suggestions :) Mar 05 02:07:04 and actual info Mar 05 02:07:20 I used that to do whatever I needed - infact, I setup a bookmark on my sftp client Mar 05 02:07:21 shit, browser is CTDing too Mar 05 02:07:23 so I could see Mar 05 02:07:57 should i try rebooting or the less i reboot the better right now? Mar 05 02:08:53 ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | awk '{print $6 " "$7" "$8}' | sed s/.list// | sort ;# just nice :-D Mar 05 02:09:16 Man, Android sucks more than I remember. Mar 05 02:11:08 only shows the dates, but not the stuff associated with them Mar 05 02:13:09 is 380mb free on /home enough? Mar 05 02:15:26 GeneralAntilles: and it will never suck less Mar 05 02:17:20 Since Mugen has the BP-5L out of stock, are there any other companies that make decent high-capacity batteries? Mar 05 02:17:55 TiagoTiago: what do you mean by "associated with them"? a complete graph of rdepends is a quite huge thing Mar 05 02:18:32 wasn't that a list o dates of when things were installed? Mar 05 02:19:00 yes, so? Mar 05 02:19:20 it only shows the when, i wanna also know the what Mar 05 02:19:39 isn't that clear by the name of the file? o.O Mar 05 02:20:17 I mean, what more do you need? Mar 05 02:20:52 wait, what filename? Mar 05 02:21:01 2011-01-19 19:31 /var/lib/dpkg/info/orrery Mar 05 02:21:02 2011-01-22 18:55 /var/lib/dpkg/info/libmarble Mar 05 02:21:04 2011-01-22 18:55 /var/lib/dpkg/info/marble Mar 05 02:21:05 2011-01-22 18:55 /var/lib/dpkg/info/marble-data Mar 05 02:21:07 2011-01-22 18:55 /var/lib/dpkg/info/marble-plugins Mar 05 02:21:08 2011-01-22 18:57 /var/lib/dpkg/info/marble-maps Mar 05 02:21:10 2011-01-26 18:26 /var/lib/dpkg/info/flashlight-applet Mar 05 02:21:25 with me it only outputs the date and time.... Mar 05 02:22:40 actually, it just gives me month, day and then hour and minute, no year nor seconds Mar 05 02:22:49 sorry dude, copied from backscroll here and pasted to xterm, works Mar 05 02:23:14 sorry, the seconds are there Mar 05 02:23:44 weird... Mar 05 02:23:55 meh, blame: Mar 05 02:23:58 ~messybox Mar 05 02:23:59 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Mar 05 02:24:17 use a decent shell, use bash Mar 05 02:24:24 no, sorry, i was right the first time, no seconds Mar 05 02:24:43 ok Mar 05 02:26:10 same result inside bash.... Mar 05 02:26:31 nope, here it works in bash while I get your result in messybox Mar 05 02:27:04 maybe you should install coreutils as well, ls in bash still is busybox ls Mar 05 02:27:49 you can tell by `ls --help` Mar 05 02:31:32 IroN900:~# busybox ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/zlib1g.list Mar 05 02:31:34 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 284 Oct 30 2009 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zlib1g.list Mar 05 02:31:35 IroN900:~# ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/zlib1g.list Mar 05 02:31:37 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 284 2009-10-30 12:29 /var/lib/dpkg/info/zlib1g.list Mar 05 02:31:43 Any high-capacity battery sugggestions? ^_^;; Mar 05 02:31:45 i got core-utils gnu installed, but the plain core-utils asks me to uninstall lots of stuff to install it.... Mar 05 02:31:55 For the N800. Mar 05 02:32:22 TiagoTiago: then make sure you are using coreutils-gnu ls in the cmdline I posted Mar 05 02:32:39 probably gls Mar 05 02:32:41 how do i do that? Mar 05 02:32:43 iirc Mar 05 02:32:57 or /bin/gnu/ls or sth Mar 05 02:33:40 /usr/bin/gnu/ls --help Mar 05 02:33:59 gls --help Mar 05 02:34:03 ls --help Mar 05 02:34:34 IroN900:~# echo $PATH Mar 05 02:34:36 /usr/bin/gnu:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11 Mar 05 02:34:53 there we go, thx Mar 05 02:35:59 is it safe to make bash and the gnu coreutills the default in the N900? Mar 05 02:37:18 not really Mar 05 02:37:34 I think coreutils for default breaks boot Mar 05 02:37:54 just because of such incompatibilities like the one you just witnessed Mar 05 02:37:57 hm, that list isn't up-to-date it seems, i've installed lots of shit this year but the list starts with december of 2010.... Mar 05 02:38:56 it might be incomplete, if var/lib/dpkg/info got cleaned by whatever Mar 05 02:39:20 also of course a reflash is like a new install, even when you restore backup Mar 05 02:39:50 so odds are you reflashed in dec 2010? Mar 05 02:39:55 no, new stuff is missing but old stuff is there Mar 05 02:40:09 hmm, nfi Mar 05 02:40:20 ~nfi Mar 05 02:40:21 well, nfi is No Fucking Idea Mar 05 02:41:14 does Maemo Synaptic bypasses the procedure that leaves traces where that command reads from? Mar 05 02:45:55 That is what i usually use for installing, uninstalling and upgrading programs, HAM freezes too much, FAPMAN doesn't work (complains about repositories), and apt-get lacks a nice GUI Mar 05 02:46:25 btw the busybox ls date format was about the first thing I cursed on linux, some >15 years ago Mar 05 02:46:45 back then it's been standard format of ls Mar 05 02:48:09 Seriously, Android. . . . Mar 05 02:48:16 This is what people use and they LIKE it?! Mar 05 02:48:19 * DocScrutinizer cackles Mar 05 02:48:33 * DocScrutinizer cackles satanically Mar 05 02:48:47 What were they thinking when they choose busybox for their pseudo-flagship hackerphone? Mar 05 02:48:59 ~messybox Mar 05 02:49:00 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Mar 05 02:49:33 for lean scripting which is fast with small memory footprint it's quite OK I guess Mar 05 02:50:31 nah, actually not even then, which is proven by the annoying initscript incompatibilities Mar 05 02:51:58 GeneralAntilles: what's that shell on Andridiot? X-D Mar 05 02:52:18 Kinda sounds like they didn't really knew what they were doing and just went with what their friend that worked at a computer store suggested... Mar 05 02:52:31 DocScrutinizer: beanshell? :) Mar 05 02:53:06 lol Mar 05 02:53:27 do you operate it via browser rather than xterm? Mar 05 02:53:41 possibly :P Mar 05 02:54:06 you know ajaxterm btw? Mar 05 02:54:15 jeah, heard of it Mar 05 02:54:21 yeah even Mar 05 02:54:32 Would it be possible for the community to develop a fixed version of Maemo5 that works with bash and gnu coreutils or the parts that are dependent on bb are closed source? Mar 05 02:54:42 there's been an article in c't some years ago Mar 05 02:55:07 a lot is closed source Mar 05 02:55:29 there is closed source in bb? Mar 05 02:55:35 didnt know that Mar 05 02:55:38 but for coreutils and shell there's no real problem Mar 05 02:55:52 any idea how i can fix my N900 (messed up Accounts' acounts, lots of programs CTDing on launch ) without reflashing? Mar 05 02:56:03 yes you can replace anything and just keep busybox around for the messy parts Mar 05 02:56:40 which is pretty much what I do Mar 05 02:56:52 Are there plans of doing that in the CSSU project? Mar 05 02:57:22 don't think so, that's mainly admin stuff, you can do it yourself basically Mar 05 02:58:06 see, that cmdline worked "ootb" on my N900 bash+*-utils setup Mar 05 02:58:25 btw i dint cared yet but where can i get CSSU? its not on the repos Mar 05 02:58:37 it's an own repo Mar 05 02:58:38 Wouldn't that save the users from lots of headaches etc and not have any sinificant downsdides? Mar 05 02:58:57 TiagoTiago: normal userland is much bigger Mar 05 02:59:01 TiagoTiago: it will break on next SSU Mar 05 02:59:20 the only advantage of busybox is that it is small :P Mar 05 02:59:21 will there be one outside of the CSSU? Mar 05 02:59:34 there are alreaady ... Mar 05 02:59:47 cehteh: not that it really was THAT much bigger so it would make a diff on a device with 32GB storage **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 05 02:59:56 2011