**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 24 02:59:58 2011 Mar 24 04:12:26 so I set the upper limit of my power kernel to 1100, and load a cpu intensive flash file, it goes to 1100 briefly, but then dips to 250mhz even when the flash is using 100 cpu Mar 24 04:22:49 Sazpaimon_: and? Mar 24 04:23:24 well, why isn't power management setting the frequency when its needed Mar 24 04:23:27 (not asking why you think Ocing to 1100 would be anything near a smart idea) Mar 24 04:23:53 why do you think it's 'needed'? Mar 24 04:24:08 because the flash plays better when its set to a higher frequency Mar 24 04:24:20 100% CPU without any task waiting is optimum Mar 24 04:24:45 i also have savecpu installed which will bring the frequency down at a certain temperatre Mar 24 04:24:54 haha Mar 24 04:25:20 though undervolting still concerns me a bit Mar 24 04:25:32 * DocScrutinizer suggests to also fill some snakeoil into the device, via the AV receptacle Mar 24 04:26:00 ~omap-oc Mar 24 04:26:01 i heard omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that! Mar 24 04:26:24 100.00% silicone oil might work better Mar 24 04:26:30 snake oil has too much snake residue Mar 24 04:27:09 yeah, silicone oil might fill the holes caused in chip by OC erosion Mar 24 04:27:43 DocScrutinizer, if powermanagement keeps the clock at 250 at most times, how is the cpu being damanged Mar 24 04:27:47 *damaged Mar 24 04:28:32 by the factor 100,000...1,000,000 faster electromigration during the times CPU runs at 1100 Mar 24 04:29:42 well, maybe factor 1000.. 10,000 Mar 24 04:30:56 CPU lifetime is <0.5 at 600MHz, compared to 500 - and the effect is exponential Mar 24 04:31:39 so at 750MHz lifetime maybe is 0.01 of what you get at 500 Mar 24 04:32:17 <0.5 of what though Mar 24 04:32:29 what is the expected lifetime of the cpu Mar 24 04:32:30 of 100,000h iirc Mar 24 04:33:29 at 600MHz it's down to sth like 40,000/20,000 depending on chip build and overall temperature Mar 24 04:34:03 of course that's assuming it's running at that frequency for 40,000 hours straight Mar 24 04:34:06 NB you got no reliable way to readout the temperature of CPU chip hotspots Mar 24 04:34:42 sure that's not inclusive the times where CPU is at 0Hz Mar 24 04:35:05 or even 250Mhz Mar 24 04:35:49 nah, 250MHz is eating up "fuel" at 100,000 rate Mar 24 04:37:43 again, this figure is at max chip temp of 95°C, which you neither can guarantee nor probe, as you dunno about exact parameter's of N900 thermal management Mar 24 04:38:18 10°C more and lifetime also is half Mar 24 04:38:36 i think the average user would notice if your cpu is heating up that much Mar 24 04:39:01 maybe I'm giving the average user too much credit actually.. Mar 24 04:39:10 I think that's wishful thinking. Not even experienced EE has any idea at allof chip temp Mar 24 04:40:17 you can't know of chip temp even when dismantling the device so you could touch the ceramic/plastic around the chip Mar 24 04:40:54 on a side note, looks like xfreerdp isn't in the default maemo repo Mar 24 04:40:56 only rdesktop Mar 24 04:41:22 as - like explaned above - you don't know how much the chip's case is isolating and how much the PCB can dissipate the heat from chip Mar 24 04:42:32 and nota bene hotspots on chip heat up in milliseconds if not sub-ms time Mar 24 04:44:02 yeah you're right Mar 24 04:44:36 anyway, I guess I'll see if I can port this from sid later Mar 24 04:47:44 so odds are each time the CPU gets ramped up to 800MHz for 20ms, you see a bite taken out of CPU lifetime that's like / ( 2 ^ ((800MHz - 600MHz)/100MHz)) / (2 ^ ((150°C - 95°C)/10°C)) Mar 24 04:48:47 = / (2^2 * 2^5.5) Mar 24 04:49:37 = / 16 * 45 Mar 24 04:49:59 oh hey Mar 24 04:50:03 for an arbitrary temp of 150 instead of 95°C at hotspots Mar 24 04:50:17 the armel package from debian sid's libfreerdp works fine in maemo Mar 24 04:50:24 no dependency issues Mar 24 04:50:30 nobody except Nokia and of course TI know what's the hotspots realy like Mar 24 04:51:02 oh wait, the actual binary needs libc 2.7 Mar 24 04:51:47 I guess I'll rebild it later Mar 24 04:54:03 now you're free to do the math for 1100-500 (oops that has to be 500 instead of 600 in that equation above), plus any random hotspot temp >>95°C you'd like to assume Mar 24 04:54:23 okay Doc, I get it Mar 24 04:57:01 and this equation is assuming a constant factor of 0.5 for each additional 100MHz which most likely istn't exactly true either, it tends to get worse on more overclocking, like *0.5 for 500->600, plus *0.3 for 600->700, plus *0.1 for 700->800, so 500->800 might be *0.5*0.3*0.1 rather then *.5*.5*.5 Mar 24 05:30:36 HAH, looked at twinkle first time since year(s) - still like it Mar 24 05:31:47 though my private edition evidently looked better than this smiley party ;-P Mar 24 05:32:36 WTF is "diamondcard"?? Mar 24 06:17:23 got a g2 Mar 24 06:21:40 does it run maemo? Mar 24 06:23:40 no.. maybe meego some year Mar 24 06:23:48 :) Mar 24 06:24:44 or maybe in 2020 i can pull the n900 out the drawer and install meego on it :) Mar 24 06:25:43 Heya Macer Mar 24 06:25:58 moo Mar 24 06:27:37 Moo Doc Mar 24 06:30:08 heh. hello Mar 24 06:34:28 keine mitleid für das maemo? Mar 24 06:38:50 Hi! Is there a desktop applet for changing profile? Mar 24 06:39:26 *profiles Mar 24 06:47:55 It's OK. I got it. Mar 24 06:55:30 morning Mar 24 07:12:49 anyone using opera on N900? Mar 24 07:34:06 hey if you want to laugh: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/2141/linux-cell-phones/4983#4983 Mar 24 07:40:09 good morning Mar 24 07:49:13 mece: yeha...using it and its very smooth Mar 24 07:57:17 that cutetube dev is umm.. interesting(?) http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=974337&postcount=841 Mar 24 07:58:21 MohammadAG, lovely. Mar 24 07:58:25 Trust you to notice that Mar 24 08:00:51 Termana, I hate you :) Mar 24 08:03:46 but seriously, shouldn't he focus on getting a working version out then adding what he wants to that... Mar 24 08:07:56 MohammadAG, mmm, I would hope there is setting to disable that or something Mar 24 08:08:36 Termana, same tbh Mar 24 08:09:50 DocScrutinizer: looks like a troll to me. Mar 24 08:10:28 indeed, a trolls meeting there Mar 24 08:11:55 haha, GE warns Japan about salt in seawater may clog the cooling path of reactors - very unexpected new thought Mar 24 08:13:34 well, no problem as tepco reduced seawater injection after they learnt each time they inject water to core, the pressure is rising dramatically - another really unexpected effect :-P Mar 24 08:14:13 three stooges, really Mar 24 08:14:40 Australia has no nuclear power plants. Win for Australia Mar 24 08:14:43 (for once) Mar 24 08:16:27 Termana, but you lot have sufficient room to put tons and tons of alt power stations ;) Mar 24 08:16:53 some countries don't have such luxury and need the higher fuel/power ratio of nuke power plants Mar 24 08:16:58 block 5 cooling broken, so now we finally have 5 critical blocks \o/ Mar 24 08:17:11 is this by western news outlets? Mar 24 08:17:57 * ruskie stopped following after half of the second week and just asks a friend who lives in Tokyo what's the status... and nobody really seem to be bothered with anything Mar 24 08:18:32 except there's no more water in bottles for sale anywhere :-( Mar 24 08:18:57 why exactly would you need that? Mar 24 08:20:57 me?? Mar 24 08:21:26 don't ask me, ask the Tokyo residents who bought all of it Mar 24 08:22:16 maybe related to gvmt's recommendation to not feed babies with tap water in Tokyo Mar 24 08:22:41 well japan does a lot of precautionary things Mar 24 08:23:00 yeah, and for some reason Mar 24 08:23:38 Anyone have any idea or pointer how to figure out why WLAn doesn't work on N900+CSSU (from ~3 weeks ago). It gets the IP but no traffic. Mar 24 08:24:07 better start early, it's a bonus those 3 real critical blocks take that long until final super-GAU Mar 24 08:24:43 well, actually 4 blocks Mar 24 08:25:42 rhkfin: wfm Mar 24 08:26:37 wfm..? Mar 24 08:26:59 almost like wtf, ftw and rtfm.. ;)? Mar 24 08:29:15 ~wtf wfm Mar 24 08:29:17 WFM: works for me Mar 24 08:29:23 ah, I see ;) Mar 24 08:29:38 ~wtf roflmfao Mar 24 08:29:40 Gee... I don't know what roflmfao means... Mar 24 08:29:41 fail Mar 24 08:29:41 It also worked for me for long but suddenly (maybe while upgrading some packages, not sure) stopper Mar 24 08:30:11 I'll upgrade CSSU again & see what happens.. Mar 24 08:34:44 How to see what happens if N900 gets IP and that's it..? Mar 24 08:34:48 MohammadAG: yeah, fail. Doesn't make sense, neither to ibot nor to me Mar 24 08:35:22 ~rofl Mar 24 08:35:22 rofl is probably rolling on the floor laughing Mar 24 08:35:31 ~lmfao Mar 24 08:35:32 rumour has it, lmfao is Laughing My Fucking Ass Off Mar 24 08:36:03 ~wtf roflmfao Mar 24 08:36:05 Gee... I don't know what roflmfao means... Mar 24 08:36:45 man wtf Mar 24 08:40:10 * mece gasps! Mar 24 08:40:27 infobot said fuck! Banhammer time! Bwuahahaha! Mar 24 08:42:49 mece: Life of Brian? Mar 24 08:43:29 "He said Jehova!" "YOU said Jehova!" Mar 24 08:43:55 "They both said Jehova!!!!" Mar 24 08:47:01 what's the min pixel height of a finger-hittable row on the n900? Mar 24 08:47:50 looks like... 70 pixels Mar 24 08:48:18 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079470/quotes?qt=qt0471968 Mar 24 08:48:36 (don't say "Jehova"!)^^^ Mar 24 08:53:28 DocScrutinizer :D Mar 24 09:00:50 pupnik: seems to depend on size of finger Mar 24 09:02:00 pupnik: I rarely have trouble with the ebook 'open' selecrror on fbreader Mar 24 09:02:40 maybe 13 vertical pixels per screen? Mar 24 09:02:44 err Mar 24 09:02:46 13 rows Mar 24 09:03:53 70 is a bit much Mar 24 09:03:58 But safe Mar 24 09:24:24 hey MohammadAG, i left pelephone and moved to orange... tbe n900 works better... (it have 2G now) Mar 24 09:25:16 now it's time to port waze...... Mar 24 09:25:54 AsiQue, 2G? Mar 24 09:26:09 Orange has 3.5G Mar 24 09:26:14 yeha... when u don't have 3G reception Mar 24 09:26:48 pelephone works on diferent freq... so i dosn't work there Mar 24 09:27:15 anyway it's a work line... so i have internet... so gonne look into porting waze... Mar 24 09:27:33 Oh right, Pelephone uses the US frequencies Mar 24 09:27:34 *so it dosn't work there Mar 24 09:27:41 yep Mar 24 09:44:13 i am the slowest programmer in the world Mar 24 09:44:50 upgraded CSSU, WLAN works again. Mar 24 09:45:50 SpeedEvil: 480p height - if i stack fingers up the n900 screen, i can fit about 5 = ~ 90 pixels height Mar 24 09:46:08 actually 4 is closer Mar 24 09:47:36 pupnik: yeah - but the centre of the finger... Mar 24 09:48:26 http://i.imgur.com/1nGuR.jpg working on that Mar 24 09:48:50 Hyy what do you people use to sync google calendar to maemo calendar? MS Exchange sync just keeps failing :/ :( Mar 24 09:49:13 pupnik: that seems challenging to touchify Mar 24 09:49:24 (based on my experiences of nethack) Mar 24 09:49:39 yeah but fun Mar 24 09:49:44 pupnik: Also - why does your keyboard have stuff on it Mar 24 09:52:41 SpeedEvil: that's where i wore through the coating Mar 24 09:53:20 pupnik: Ah. I would guess some game? Mar 24 09:53:35 mount -t reiserfs -o killwife=disabled /dev/sda3 / Mar 24 09:53:38 no mostly irc/shell Mar 24 09:53:53 crashanddie_: That's not fair. Mar 24 09:54:10 crashanddie_: One should only criticise after writing a filesystem, and not killing their partner. Mar 24 09:54:23 I'm not criticising, I'm admiring Mar 24 09:54:32 i cannot judge as i didn't know the woman Mar 24 09:54:34 Has anyone really investigated other filesystem authors spousal death statistics? Mar 24 09:55:53 :) Mar 24 09:59:25 Error handling in foss mediaplayer, the way it should've been http://i52.tinypic.com/xdb5uo.jpg Mar 24 09:59:52 should be installed instead of supported, but meh Mar 24 10:00:13 Not found. Mar 24 10:00:20 As it may not be installable Mar 24 10:00:31 Not found would be best. Mar 24 10:01:06 http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/mafw/MafwRenderer.html#MafwRendererError lots of useful error codes, all dumped by Nokia Mar 24 10:01:19 :/ Mar 24 10:02:12 oO Mar 24 10:02:20 I figured out how to merge contatcs Mar 24 10:03:08 Does it involve a popular blendtek product, and lots of screams? Mar 24 10:03:45 MAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_DRM The media item has drm protection and cannot be played. Mar 24 10:03:53 I thought the N900 didn't support DRM Mar 24 10:04:01 might be for m6 Mar 24 10:04:36 I'd guess m6 doesn't use mafw Mar 24 10:06:06 MohammadAG: you can't decode DRMd stuff if you don't have DRM protectoipn Mar 24 10:13:14 error handling is boring Mar 24 10:13:56 Error handling is like wearing condoms. It takes the edge off the fun, but it might stop you regretting things for the next 20 years. Mar 24 10:15:33 LOL Mar 24 10:16:10 what would be better, "playlist is corrupt" or "playlist is corrupted"? Mar 24 10:16:28 I'd go with corrupt Mar 24 10:16:31 gimp kills my .png alpha channels Mar 24 10:16:35 "Playlist corrupted" or "Corrupted playlist" probably. Mar 24 10:16:35 * pupnik cries Mar 24 10:17:01 hmm, it might be empty Mar 24 10:17:09 MohammadAG: How about "The playlist seems to be corrupt? Clear, retry, ignore? Mar 24 10:17:13 damn spambot on tmo Mar 24 10:17:35 so again, "playlist is corrupt or empty" or "playlist is corrupted or empty" Mar 24 10:17:51 MohammadAG, "I'm terribly sorry, dear friend, but it would appear I am yet again unable to provide any assistance. You see, your playlist is corrupted, and my creators have not implemented an artificial intelligence good enough that would allow me to make something useful out of the shreds of song names you provided me with." Mar 24 10:17:53 corrupt, in that case Mar 24 10:17:56 robbiethe1st, not possible with the Maemo 5 dialog, but anyway, you can just click the item again and it makes a playlist Mar 24 10:17:58 MohammadAG, the ed one. Mar 24 10:18:09 erm Mar 24 10:18:23 MohammadAG: You can't pop up a QMessageBox(I think it is)? Mar 24 10:18:24 "Corrupted playlist" is the best suggestion Mar 24 10:18:33 imo Mar 24 10:18:41 crashanddie_, you know, error messages like those would make it more fun Mar 24 10:18:47 mece, what about empty? Mar 24 10:18:54 it would send the same int for empty/corrupt playlist Mar 24 10:18:56 empty != corrupt Mar 24 10:19:08 MAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_PLAYLIST_PARSING Renderer tried to parse a media playlist and it corrupted (or empty). Mar 24 10:19:23 exactly that "Error while parsing the playlist" Mar 24 10:19:25 perhaps just playlist error Mar 24 10:19:28 How about this "The playlist appears to be empty. Are you sure you added media to this playlist?" Mar 24 10:19:32 yes what crashanddie_ said Mar 24 10:19:52 or "Couldn't parse playlist" Mar 24 10:19:54 sans "the" imo. Mar 24 10:20:02 error while sounds better. Mar 24 10:20:18 erm no Mar 24 10:20:19 wait Mar 24 10:20:35 failed is a better word Mar 24 10:20:46 no error. Mar 24 10:20:48 erm Mar 24 10:20:59 dude Mar 24 10:21:03 Whatever the message is, it needs to be something -not- 'scary' - something that's not likely to make people post in the forums asking about it. Mar 24 10:21:13 take your multiple-personality-disorder-pills, mece Mar 24 10:21:23 crashanddie_, I forgot them at home Mar 24 10:21:24 or try to agree with yourself before typing :P Mar 24 10:21:27 If it said like "Error! guru meditation #110357"... well.. Mar 24 10:22:06 well then I think it's better to say that it's the playlists fault and not the software trying to parse it :) Mar 24 10:22:13 ^^ Mar 24 10:22:23 "Playlist may be corrupt or empty"? Mar 24 10:22:24 On on the of the biggest projects I worked on Mar 24 10:22:27 when things went really wrong Mar 24 10:22:28 yes Mar 24 10:22:47 we'd just dump "Something bad happened" to the screen Mar 24 10:22:50 and that was it Mar 24 10:22:59 all the funky logging infrastructure that was available was completely ignored Mar 24 10:23:48 Now, when a customer spends $20M on a product, out of which, $1M was dedicated to the logging infrastructure, they were kinda pissed when it just died with a silent "Something bad happened" Mar 24 10:23:51 "shit happened" Mar 24 10:23:52 would be nice Mar 24 10:24:24 BTW, I love my job Mar 24 10:24:45 What's the plural of "value", "try", "entry"? Mar 24 10:25:02 values, tries, entries? Mar 24 10:25:08 you'd think that Mar 24 10:25:16 however... if ((trys >= 3) && !ok) ccc.qos_node.innerHTML Mar 24 10:25:31 Heh Mar 24 10:25:38 :D Mar 24 10:25:47 Basically, this is a guy who's written shitloads of macros Mar 24 10:26:17 It's not uncommon to have bad spelling in code tbh :P Mar 24 10:26:39 so when he wants a linked chain (he doesn't use libstd, stl or anything, wrote everything himself), he needs to track the "singular" name of the chain, but also name it to be the chain, in which case it's plural Mar 24 10:26:46 so when it's plural, he just adds an s Mar 24 10:27:46 This, from a guy who tightly controls the compilation process because he "doesn't trust the linker" Mar 24 10:28:20 O_o Mar 24 10:28:21 Sounds like a right pedant. Mar 24 10:28:22 That pesky linker! Mar 24 10:28:38 Good luck him getting a decent job :P Mar 24 10:28:50 oh he makes well over 200k euro a year Mar 24 10:28:53 the linker stiffed me for 20€ the other day. I don't trust him either. Mar 24 10:29:16 Heh Mar 24 10:29:41 So we have this library, called wo, it takes care of everything from sockets to xml parsing and generation Mar 24 10:29:59 you'd think you just include the header file and be done with it, right? Mar 24 10:30:21 maybe point the compiler to the right .so or something Mar 24 10:30:36 not quite, because he doesn't trust the linker, we have conditional compilation Mar 24 10:30:45 Do you have to define defines to get certain bits working? Mar 24 10:30:55 yes Mar 24 10:30:56 Yeah, that's what I thought :) Mar 24 10:31:08 well, during the compilation -DSPECIFIC_FEATURE Mar 24 10:31:18 This guy is like 50? Mar 24 10:31:25 just under it, yeah Mar 24 10:31:39 which also means that instead of compiling everything once, and then linking the correct bits together Mar 24 10:31:40 Yeah, sort of makes sense :) Mar 24 10:31:43 any tmo mods here? could we have a kick/ban/removeallposts for this one: http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=52296 Mar 24 10:31:54 we compile the library about 80 times Mar 24 10:32:25 so on my quad core computer, about 9 minutes of compilation for a release (which has -g and -O6) Mar 24 10:32:37 crashanddie_: It could be worse. You could be using boost. Mar 24 10:32:41 true Mar 24 10:32:53 but it's kinda fun, because he's tired of the project Mar 24 10:32:59 so he's giving me all the info I want Mar 24 10:33:05 I completely rewrote the makefiles Mar 24 10:33:15 what's with the boost hate? Mar 24 10:33:23 optimised the compilation process to gain roughly 30% speedup, not bad. Mar 24 10:33:47 Are you gonna make it a .so? Mar 24 10:34:01 And I'm silently, and discreetly, rewriting the whole 350k lines of code in real C++, with inheritance and all Mar 24 10:34:21 alterego, will see, I'm basically kicking out all the unnecessary libraries Mar 24 10:34:23 alterego, badam-bom-tcssssssh Mar 24 10:34:46 Heh, why? Why not just use Qt? Mar 24 10:35:02 alterego, I don't see the point of maintaining our own proprietary XML parser, rather than using libxerces or something Mar 24 10:35:26 I talked to the CEO, I have the green light to get the guys to contribute to open source rather than maintaining our own shit Mar 24 10:35:41 The new version, the one I'm silently designing/writing will probably be open sourced Mar 24 10:35:52 I'm actually working with xml parsing in my current work project and it's driving me towards hard drugs Mar 24 10:36:41 cool Mar 24 10:36:42 But why not use Qt? Mar 24 10:36:54 alterego, you asking me? Or mece? Mar 24 10:37:08 he's asking you crashanddie_ Mar 24 10:37:14 Because I don't like Qt Mar 24 10:37:20 well, it's not bad per se Mar 24 10:37:26 it's just way too bloated for what we do Mar 24 10:37:45 there's a reason the guy uses -O6 Mar 24 10:37:58 might be the wrong reasons, but the end thought is still valid Mar 24 10:38:03 hehe Mar 24 10:38:31 for telephony systems, you need very fast systems Mar 24 10:38:52 why not use ASM then ;) Mar 24 10:39:13 btw, for the record on a gigabit network, we answer a call in less than a ms Mar 24 10:39:17 The new version, the one I'm silently designing/writing will probably be open sourced <-- you do realize that was logged, twice Mar 24 10:39:24 Hrm .. Mar 24 10:39:41 MohammadAG, yeah, and did I ever mention his name, the company's name, or the project's name? Mar 24 10:39:47 ok, it'll be project Google. Mar 24 10:39:48 hehe ;) Mar 24 10:39:56 Well, as long as you have a reason to basically write another framework :P Mar 24 10:39:59 good luck for him finding that keyword on the interweb ;) Mar 24 10:40:10 alterego, I won't be writing another framework Mar 24 10:41:18 alterego, the portions that are valid will remain as the library, the ones that aren't (SIP management? OpenSIP does it fine, XML? Xerces is awesome and fast. Encryption? OpenSSL will do that) will get removed/replaced by maintained and opensource libs Mar 24 10:41:55 so it'll be like any other project, leveraging what others have done. Mar 24 10:42:30 To give you an idea, he wanted to implement PKI encryption himself... Mar 24 10:42:55 I told him to stop being an arrogant ass, and to use OpenSSL or nss. Mar 24 10:43:15 or any other ssl lib that's already developed Mar 24 10:43:20 exactly Mar 24 10:44:40 There are a few. Mar 24 10:44:40 This guy sounds like stallman :P Mar 24 10:44:53 Nha Mar 24 10:44:56 He's more like Sheldon Mar 24 10:45:13 ahah, yeah. Mar 24 10:45:19 I mean, physically and all Mar 24 10:45:51 with the trousers that are too short, the hair cut by his wife every weekend and all. Mar 24 10:45:53 which error policy should I set in case an error occurs Mar 24 10:45:55 MAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_POLICY_CONTINUE move to next item in playlist if available. Mar 24 10:45:55 MAFW_RENDERER_ERROR_POLICY_STOP stop playback. Mar 24 10:46:03 Heh, weird. Mar 24 10:46:04 CONTINUE Mar 24 10:46:09 I'd go with stop, the user can... why? Mar 24 10:46:24 MohammadAG, ever listened to audio CDs? Mar 24 10:46:28 like, in the car? Mar 24 10:46:40 this is a video window :P Mar 24 10:46:48 You know when a song is fucked, and the CD player just goes beserk? Mar 24 10:47:08 It's nicer when it just skips to the next available song, rather than plainly give up Mar 24 10:47:10 it doesn't go berserk, ours goes on playing till you pull it out :P Mar 24 10:55:09 i have no CD player Mar 24 10:56:31 crashanddie_: do you know that there is ASM XML parser Mar 24 10:56:40 crashanddie_: and it's like 10x faster than anything else Mar 24 10:56:56 probably, but XML parsing isn't time critical in most cases Mar 24 10:57:24 http://tibleiz.net/asm-xml/ Mar 24 10:57:40 http://tibleiz.net/asm-xml/benchmark.html Mar 24 10:57:49 Xereces is slowest Mar 24 10:58:13 jacekowski, and lemme guess, you don't drive :P Mar 24 10:58:22 MohammadAG: i do Mar 24 10:58:53 i should buy a bicycle Mar 24 10:58:57 and i'm thinking about that Mar 24 10:59:04 and getting to work on a bicycle Mar 24 10:59:10 but i would have to wake up hour earlier Mar 24 10:59:40 i'm trying to flash my n900, flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f works just fine, when its done i try to run -F -f -R, it says "booting device into flash mode" then nothing happens except the USB-icon in the upper right corner on the phone dissapears and the led goes yellow Mar 24 10:59:49 what can i do? Mar 24 11:00:39 jacekowski, xerces isn't that slow actually, expat is good, but the scenery has changed a lot since I last looked at it, thanks for that link. Mar 24 11:02:03 ilon: without -R Mar 24 11:02:14 jacekowski: okey, will try Mar 24 11:04:00 jacekowski: tho every guide says i should run "flasher-3.5 -FRX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R", i.e. with the -R flag Mar 24 11:08:18 jacekowski: no difference, still stuck at the same point, CMT flash successfully, EMMC flash dosnt find my device after rebooting it into flash mode. Mar 24 11:18:08 How do I install a .deb file+ Mar 24 11:18:11 ? Mar 24 11:18:19 Morning, all Mar 24 11:21:19 Polesch: ipkg install i think Mar 24 11:21:27 Polesch: on a debian system that is Mar 24 11:21:45 I'm on the N900. Mar 24 11:22:02 ilon, ipkg??? I think you're cofused Mar 24 11:22:10 dpkg -i deb Mar 24 11:22:46 Second question, is MeeGo useful? Mar 24 11:22:55 The N900 is debian based Mar 24 11:22:56 "Worth installing"? Mar 24 11:22:57 Define useful Mar 24 11:23:08 Developer? Mar 24 11:23:26 If you want to get involved in development/bug reports, yes Mar 24 11:23:47 MohammadAG: maemo is debian based, the N900 is the hardware :P Mar 24 11:23:53 I'm just a curious avid user. Mar 24 11:24:17 alterego, Cambridge right? *books plane tickets* Mar 24 11:24:32 Polesch, you might find it slow/not suitable for day to day use Mar 24 11:25:16 Polesch: we're getting there, I'd come back when DE is available, unless you want to hlep us :) Mar 24 11:25:44 "We are"? Are you a developer? Mar 24 11:26:04 ruskie: confused it is :P Mar 24 11:27:20 Yes, I am a developer, Mar 24 11:27:55 I will come here and blame you for all the future problems I will have with that system then. Mar 24 11:28:25 Just be sure to get a call manager into this MeeGo, I hate not being able to block some callers, or blacklist them. Mar 24 11:28:46 Polesch, try #meego for meego related stuff ;) Mar 24 11:29:19 I paid almost a thousand bucks for this device, just be aware of that. Mar 24 11:29:59 Polesch: you didn't pay me a thousand bucks which gives you absolutely no right to get pissy at me. Mar 24 11:30:11 Of course I can. Mar 24 11:30:12 I work for free Mar 24 11:30:25 That's stupid, don't blame me! Mar 24 11:30:51 we're not working for Nokia Mar 24 11:31:20 The hardware is great, the system is mostly the problem. Mar 24 11:31:25 this is a communtiy channel Mar 24 11:31:26 and I paid a thousand bucks for it, makes your argument invalid Mar 24 11:31:30 so wrong place to spew bile... Mar 24 11:31:34 it's not our problem Mar 24 11:31:38 I have nothing to complain about though, so :) Mar 24 11:31:50 Polesch, please stop trolling, or I'll make you stop. Mar 24 11:31:52 you want to spew bile direct it to the nokia conversations forums thingy... Mar 24 11:32:14 Okey, sorry for my ranting! Mar 24 11:32:40 But can I ask an honest question, why would you work for free? Mar 24 11:33:14 Polesch, why does the red cross work through the work of free volunteers? Mar 24 11:33:14 The fun of it, we're not working for anyone Mar 24 11:33:44 But the red cross actually do get paid. Mar 24 11:33:50 No, they don't Mar 24 11:33:55 And the workers at red cross get all their expenses paid for. Mar 24 11:33:56 their volunteers dont Mar 24 11:33:58 Volunteers are just that, volunteers, no payment. Mar 24 11:34:08 expenses, sure. But we don't incur expenses, do we? Mar 24 11:34:21 And when we travel for it, some of us (who need it) get their expenses paid. Mar 24 11:34:39 So you get paid in experience and fun, eh? Mar 24 11:34:49 Something like that Mar 24 11:35:01 same as pretty much every community contributor for any open project yeah Mar 24 11:35:30 I put it on my CV, and it pretty much got me my current job Mar 24 11:36:17 Back to the real problems, I'm having problems with superuser privileges. I tried to install rootsh, but "sudo gainroot" still give me: "Enable RD.." Mar 24 11:36:28 install rootsh from the repos first Mar 24 11:37:17 Is there a general ideology among you programming-volunteers? Anti-capitalism? Mar 24 11:37:40 not really Mar 24 11:38:10 You just think that we should have a free alternative? Mar 24 11:38:22 Not necessarily either Mar 24 11:38:27 Open != Free Mar 24 11:39:35 and Free != free Mar 24 11:39:44 I do it for two reasons, one because it interests me, and two, becuase I rely and use a lot of free open source stuff myself, I feel I'm giving something back. Mar 24 11:41:54 When I use the command: "dpkg -i", how do I direct it to the file located in the "Documents" folder? Mar 24 11:42:11 you really shouldn't use dpkg -i Mar 24 11:42:13 It's in "home/user" Mar 24 11:42:33 I have a ".deb" file that I'd like to install.. Mar 24 11:45:27 I just get "No such file or directory" Mar 24 11:45:42 dpkg -i /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/file.deb Mar 24 11:46:11 use tab to complete filenames Mar 24 11:46:24 all filenames and paths are case sensitive Mar 24 11:47:09 I can't get the correct path.. Mar 24 11:47:56 On the phone, it says: "Nokia N900/Documents/filename.deb" Mar 24 11:48:53 then MohammadAG's path is correct Mar 24 11:51:05 Seems to work now. Thanks a lot. Mar 24 11:54:42 alterego, sounds exactly like my motivation for oss Mar 24 11:54:43 :D Mar 24 11:55:06 I can't access the extras-devel repository though. Mar 24 11:55:22 ok, Polesch, here's the thing Mar 24 11:55:40 "repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/" Mar 24 11:55:54 Use a bloody search engine. We are not your housekeepers. Mar 24 11:56:32 But search engines all give the same result, where I have a problem. Mar 24 11:57:10 I'm about to kick you out of this channel, understood? Mar 24 11:57:11 "Download libxss1" from the repository.. I can't find it in the repository! Mar 24 11:57:18 Because I'm still not sure whether you're a troll or not. Mar 24 11:57:43 Probably somewhere inbetween. Mar 24 11:58:34 I keep facing these problems, and they are frustrating for me too. Mar 24 12:00:44 * ruskie would suggest reading the instruction manual and wiki.maemo.org Mar 24 12:00:52 and possibly searching on talk.maemo.org Mar 24 12:01:03 there's an instruction manual? Mar 24 12:01:48 mece, amazing isn't it? Mar 24 12:01:53 it does have some info in there Mar 24 12:02:02 but I hardly recall what's in there Mar 24 12:04:28 http://www.reghardware.com/2011/03/24/iphone_survives_plunge_from_plane/ <-- fun... Mar 24 12:06:39 ilon: ehh Mar 24 12:06:51 ilon: don't restart it Mar 24 12:07:02 ilon: combined -> emmc -> then restart Mar 24 12:07:49 jacekowski: it restarted by itself when done flashing combined.. Mar 24 12:07:56 jacekowski: tried on 3 windows installs Mar 24 12:08:10 jacekowski: then i found out there's actually a flasher for linux Mar 24 12:08:23 jacekowski: made it a walk in the park, made it on the first try :)) Mar 24 12:08:36 jacekowski: now its reflashed and reverted to my backup Mar 24 12:09:58 yeah, linux flasher is the way to go Mar 24 12:10:04 windows one tends to not work very often Mar 24 12:12:59 jacekowski: well, i use linux as my primary OS, dosnt even own a device with win on, used klient PCs when flashing, didnt know the flasher was around for linux Mar 24 12:17:21 ilon: there are two flashers for windows Mar 24 12:17:33 one is a gui flasher and one is a commandline flasher that works just like the linux one Mar 24 12:17:56 the gui flasher was designed a long long time ago for your average user Mar 24 12:18:20 it wasn't updated to deal w/ optfication Mar 24 12:18:58 ~flash Mar 24 12:18:59 it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Mar 24 12:21:02 it's a typical case of people not properly setting dependencies in an architecture diagram such that when someone changes how things works the dependent team is notified and asked to update their component :( Mar 24 12:21:19 ironically i'm sure both teams spent a lot of time writing useless architecture documents which no one read Mar 24 12:45:50 timeless_w7ip: windows flasher failed Mar 24 12:49:06 jacekowski: *which* and doing *what*? Mar 24 12:49:25 timeless_w7ip: commandline one Mar 24 12:49:28 timeless_w7ip: flashing Mar 24 12:49:37 timeless_w7ip: same commands on linux just worked Mar 24 12:50:14 hrm Mar 24 13:19:11 anyone had drlaunch not launch any apps no matter how long you press? Mar 24 13:22:25 Does the N900 handle 5000 numbers in one contact? Mar 24 13:23:10 try it Mar 24 13:26:09 It didn't seam to work Mar 24 13:26:44 any particular reason you need 5000 numbers? Mar 24 13:26:47 I only got a few Mar 24 13:26:58 ruskie: All the common phone sellers in Norway Mar 24 13:27:11 Is there a way to have two phone books in the N900? Mar 24 13:27:19 don't think so Mar 24 13:27:21 I could import the top 250 as separate numbers Mar 24 13:27:52 But that would pollute my contact list Mar 24 13:28:16 get an unlisted number Mar 24 13:28:30 Won't help Mar 24 13:28:39 Some of these are fraudulent numbers Mar 24 13:28:50 don't you like have some laws for this? Mar 24 13:29:11 I can get registrated as someone who does not wish contact with phone salesmenn Mar 24 13:29:21 But they can still call me about 'free offres' and such Mar 24 13:29:53 So to have them all in a phonebook would be sweet Mar 24 13:30:19 you can have quite a few numbers in a single contact though Mar 24 13:30:28 have you actually tried with something like 100? Mar 24 13:31:16 I tried it with 5000 Mar 24 13:31:24 I can tell it is FAR less than 5000 Mar 24 13:31:44 how can you tell that? Mar 24 13:32:44 I opened the contact Mar 24 13:32:45 also have you looked at any of the blacklist thingies? Mar 24 13:32:56 those might let you just list numbers and not rely on contacts Mar 24 13:33:57 It only supports 22 numbers in one contact Mar 24 13:34:09 Probably Mar 24 13:35:05 well maybe you could use one of those to do so... Mar 24 13:36:08 There is also one woman, who has called me 7-8 times this month Mar 24 13:36:11 Wrong number Mar 24 13:36:29 Next time I will tell her, if she don't stop I will take legal actions against her Mar 24 13:36:49 lolcat: no Mar 24 13:36:55 there's a limit of around 50 contact fields Mar 24 13:37:24 it isn't precisely 50, and the number is somewhat quirky because of implentation bugs involving counting fields Mar 24 13:37:30 (it's closer to 47 iirc) Mar 24 13:37:39 there should be a bug filed by me in bugs.maemo.org that talks about the limit Mar 24 13:37:41 timeless_w7ip: http://www.telefonterror.no/uke_alle/terrorliste.vcf it is 5000 numbers in that one. It only shows 22 on my n900 Mar 24 13:38:12 * timeless_w7ip shrugs Mar 24 13:38:23 i manually hit the limit while investigating error strings Mar 24 13:38:35 this was a *long* time ago Mar 24 13:38:48 but i know for i fact i "spent" the time hitting the limit Mar 24 13:38:58 partially to determine just how buggy the counting code was Mar 24 13:39:07 (yes, i think i even wrote a patch, no i don't think they took it) Mar 24 13:39:24 provide a patched binary to the CSSU? :) Mar 24 13:39:49 ... Mar 24 13:40:02 i rarely provide patched binaries Mar 24 13:40:04 I'll take that as a no Mar 24 13:40:13 although i have at times been known to provide patchers for binaries Mar 24 13:40:36 when things just have buggy strings, it's easy Mar 24 13:40:44 when you have to actually fix logic, it's more effort than it's worth Mar 24 13:40:58 Is there a patch? Mar 24 13:41:20 the patch only fixes the logic to not be buggy wrt the boundary edge Mar 24 13:41:27 it doesn't magically enable you to have 1000 items Mar 24 13:41:49 the bug was that you could have X or X+1 depending on whether you had a first/last name present Mar 24 13:42:03 and sometimes you would get or not get an error at some point Mar 24 13:44:47 bah, fixing logic is easy on binary level, if and only if you got an idea at source level of what's going on. Then just replace one (or maybe 2) OPcode by a jump to your patch which you append to end of binary Mar 24 13:45:18 of course patching ELFs isn't *that* easy Mar 24 13:45:56 as ELF isn't a plain binary format like that errr .bin? .cmd? .com? Mar 24 13:47:37 .exe?? Mar 24 13:48:28 doc: it helps if you understand the opcodes for the relevant format Mar 24 13:48:34 i can do that for x86 (for basic ops) Mar 24 13:48:40 i haven't wasted my time for arm Mar 24 13:48:44 :-D Mar 24 13:49:26 gcc intermediate asm listings sometimes are mad useful Mar 24 13:49:57 also quite entertaining every now and then Mar 24 13:50:43 your definition and my definition of 'useful' diverge somewhere before Mar 24 13:50:56 * timeless_w7ip is trying to decide how to count bugs Mar 24 13:50:59 https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AigJOFz-h_P4dE1ESTh4NkhHVGJtcmxBeHpXYmNaX1E&hl=en Mar 24 13:51:07 in case you want to play along Mar 24 13:51:12 when a 150char c++ line gets reduced to 40 char asm and ~6bytes opcode Mar 24 13:52:31 or a simple case statement blows up to 20kb of NOP plus 3 labels for the 3 cases ;-P Mar 24 13:52:55 (seen that in a brainfsckd modula comiler's asm listing) Mar 24 13:55:19 case X in 1) bla;; 20000) blub;; *) null;; esac Mar 24 13:56:09 -> 20k of jump landing zone list, with mostly catchall redirects for the *) case Mar 24 13:56:26 except for first and last entry Mar 24 13:56:30 XP Mar 24 13:57:47 DocScrutinizer: code caves Mar 24 13:57:47 of course each of the 20k entries been a full size JMP opcode, so sth like 3 byte ot that machine Mar 24 13:58:00 DocScrutinizer: there are always some non used spaces in binaries Mar 24 13:58:36 DocScrutinizer: it's even more fun if you modify binary by calculating all opcodes and addresses by hand Mar 24 13:58:41 in Germany we call that Soda-bytes "Die sind einfach So Da" Mar 24 13:58:52 like i did with fmtxd 1.3 Mar 24 13:59:20 jacekowski: (calculate by hand) that's how I started coding Mar 24 13:59:25 1974 Mar 24 14:00:49 timeless_w7ip: i used the CLI-flasher for windows, and no, it dosnt have the same options. Mar 24 14:01:15 timeless_w7ip: the win CLI-flasher dosnt seems to be handeling the -R (reboot) option as it should Mar 24 14:02:56 ilon: that's not a bug, that's a feature. The -R option is BS and cruft and you usually don't want it. See Mar 24 14:02:58 ~flash Mar 24 14:02:59 hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Mar 24 14:03:57 DocScrutinizer: well, it was the reboot option (on OFF) that made my flash to success. Mar 24 14:04:17 errrr wut? Mar 24 14:04:51 DocScrutinizer: for some reason, with the same options, the windows CLI-flasher failed, the linux one didnt. Mar 24 14:05:39 DocScrutinizer: would reflash it just to find out EXACTLY what went wrong in windows, if this wasnt my primary phone Mar 24 14:05:43 for some reason the -R is dangerous, as you MUST NOT rebot after flashing the rootfs before flashing eMMC (if you opt for that particular sequence) Mar 24 14:05:45 ~2119 Mar 24 14:05:46 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Mar 24 14:07:07 soo.. what is the definition "to be"? Mar 24 14:07:15 DocScrutinizer: yeah, and for some reason, leaving out the -R on win CLI-flash didnt work, while using the linux-flasher worked. Mar 24 14:08:11 ilon: you know the story of the scared little boy who kicked a powerline pole and same moment the whole town suffered a blackout? Mar 24 14:08:53 DocScrutinizer: spare me the stories :) Mar 24 14:08:58 well, maybe too metaphoric. So here you are: mere incidence Mar 24 14:09:11 DocScrutinizer: tried every suggested approach with win CLI-flasher, none worked. Mar 24 14:09:30 DocScrutinizer: what would you say was the problem then? Mar 24 14:09:47 yeah, that win that fscks up flashing, but not the flasher as such Mar 24 14:10:05 might be Mar 24 14:10:22 nokiasuite been installed and driver get in the way - common failure path Mar 24 14:10:55 DocScrutinizer: no pcsuite installed, only drivers are the one chipped with flasher Mar 24 14:11:13 flasher is known to break when USB got hijacked by the nokiasuite drivers Mar 24 14:11:50 DocScrutinizer: tried the flasher in a virtualbox aswell, after the os-flash the phone dosnt come back (got a tail -f /var/log/messages), only reported a USB disconnect after successfully flashing Mar 24 14:12:04 there are other failure pathes, but honestly lackking win here (actually all redmond crap) I can't really comment on it Mar 24 14:13:39 ilon: toldya -R after rootfs(OS) flash is dangerous Mar 24 14:14:12 DocScrutinizer: same resoult w/o -R Mar 24 14:14:21 :shrug: Mar 24 14:14:27 :) Mar 24 14:14:30 redmond virus Mar 24 14:14:36 yeah, probably Mar 24 14:14:43 i blame canada Mar 24 14:14:59 duh, winlabs moved? Mar 24 14:15:16 thought M$ is redmond still Mar 24 14:16:31 how does the policychange at Nokia affect their development of maemo? did they stoped it completly? Mar 24 14:17:20 maemo was dead ages ago :) Mar 24 14:17:24 maemo became meego Mar 24 14:17:28 and meego isn't dead Mar 24 14:17:31 (yet) Mar 24 14:18:02 It's just pining for the fjoords. Mar 24 14:18:07 timeless_w7ip: ages would be a little longer than reality, PR1.3 wasnt that long ago Mar 24 14:19:24 ilon: um... Mar 24 14:19:36 pr1.3 took its sweet time getting into your hands Mar 24 14:19:52 but that doesn't mean significant work for it was done in recent member Mar 24 14:19:57 s/member/memory/ Mar 24 14:19:58 timeless_w7ip meant: but that doesn't mean significant work for it was done in recent memory Mar 24 14:20:09 Hello Mar 24 14:20:27 moud: i don Mar 24 14:20:34 't suppose i could get you to use a lowercase nick? Mar 24 14:21:07 BETTAH? Mar 24 14:21:09 thank you for not shouting. Mar 24 14:21:21 * timeless_w7ip adds haha to /ignore Mar 24 14:21:40 timeless_w7ip: im sorry but no. Mar 24 14:21:47 got a headache, timely? Mar 24 14:21:50 yes Mar 24 14:22:01 aww Mar 24 14:22:10 * crashanddie plays the worlds tiniest violin, just for you. Mar 24 14:22:22 s/lds/ld's/ Mar 24 14:22:26 :) Mar 24 14:22:52 (and yes, i realize was going to complain about that) Mar 24 14:24:18 hah, and I bet you just accidentally a whole coke bottle, too, no? Mar 24 14:24:41 what meme is that? Mar 24 14:25:33 so, can anyone help me? Mar 24 14:25:35 timeless_w7ip: still isnt an answer to the question if they'll halt development. Mar 24 14:25:51 on what? Mar 24 14:26:01 timeless_w7ip: maemo / meego Mar 24 14:26:06 you didn't ask that! Mar 24 14:26:09 you asked about maemo Mar 24 14:26:14 ok, i asked about maemo Mar 24 14:26:15 and i said that maemo's life had already ended Mar 24 14:26:22 i.e. it did not affect it Mar 24 14:26:24 timeless_w7ip: are you sure about that? Mar 24 14:26:31 since they still market phones with maemo Mar 24 14:26:33 dunno, i used to work for maemo devices Mar 24 14:26:36 timeless_w7ip: I have my router and I would like to crack the Wep key, how can I do that with my n900? Mar 24 14:26:38 now i work for meego devices Mar 24 14:26:47 perhaps there's a secret memo from my employer that i missed? Mar 24 14:26:51 it's possible Mar 24 14:26:57 timeless_w7ip: tssk Mar 24 14:27:15 MOUD, get the injection drivers, get a copy of neopwn too if you want to be lame Mar 24 14:27:16 moud: same way you would w/ any other linux thing Mar 24 14:27:30 ilon, MeeGo is a Linux Foundation project, Nokia have special focus on the handset, but the project has no bearing on any individual company, infact you yourself could help to bring it up. Mar 24 14:27:42 personally, i'd use my n900 to find the manufacturer's pdf and then read it Mar 24 14:27:50 crashanddie: could you tell me where I can get those please? Mar 24 14:27:54 then i'd reset the key and reconfigure the router Mar 24 14:27:58 MOUD, No. Mar 24 14:28:00 that'd be a much better use of my time and my n900 :) Mar 24 14:28:10 lcuk: yeah i know Mar 24 14:28:23 crashanddie: ok, thanks for the info btw :) Mar 24 14:28:32 lcuk: but before the change on CEO at Nokia, they actually participated in the development afaik? Mar 24 14:28:33 aww, you didn't like my answer! Mar 24 14:28:55 ilon: oddly, i think we're more involved in MeeGo now than we were before the MS annoucement Mar 24 14:29:07 but note that the CEO change was somewhere around August Mar 24 14:29:12 whereas the MS announcement was Feb Mar 24 14:29:30 ilon, I have seen more active open development and pushing for a really usable Nokia handset more recently than ever before Mar 24 14:29:31 timeless_w7ip: did u talk with me? Mar 24 14:29:36 see focus on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition for principle example Mar 24 14:29:58 timeless_w7ip: well, that pretty much answer my thoughts :) Mar 24 14:30:10 moud: yes Mar 24 14:30:30 moud: same way you would w/ any other linux thing Mar 24 14:30:33 and following Mar 24 14:31:26 timeless_w7ip / lcuk: sorry that i made such vauge / errorous questions Mar 24 14:31:50 apology accepted and appreciated Mar 24 14:32:01 ilon, :) Mar 24 14:33:26 I dont want to do that because I need to reset my DSL modem and the company will have to reconfigure it again and they are very lazy. If u call them they'll take around 5 to 7 days to come and reconfigure it. Mar 24 14:33:46 moud: read the manual Mar 24 14:33:56 perhaps there's an ethernet port and a well known password Mar 24 14:34:14 really, manuals are your friend, and your n900 can help you get and read them :) Mar 24 14:34:30 there's probably a reset method, button, pull the power plug out 3 or 4 times, whatever Mar 24 14:34:47 timeless_w7ip: i just want to try wep cracking on my n900, nothing more. Mar 24 14:34:49 so please stop bullshitting us, and just say you want to break your neighbour's wifi network Mar 24 14:35:24 but sorry bru, the hot chick living next door doesn't keep naked pictures of herself on a shared drive Mar 24 14:35:25 and i find it rather odd that your model can't properly retrieve settings on its own Mar 24 14:35:44 moud: also, your n900 can take you to google Mar 24 14:35:56 from there you can read all about any subject you like, including wep cracking Mar 24 14:36:08 im doing that already Mar 24 14:36:25 moud: there's an old addage: Mar 24 14:36:36 Search First. Ask Questions Later Mar 24 14:36:41 please respect it Mar 24 14:37:34 timeless_w7ip: ok, i will. Mar 24 14:50:03 sp3000: got an estimated time of departure? Mar 24 14:58:09 is there going to be a new patch for maemo? Mar 24 15:02:54 MOUD: there is the CSSU... but no *official nokia* patch yet Mar 24 15:03:34 chem|st: thanks, i'll check if there's any changelog for it Mar 24 15:04:26 MOUD: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog Mar 24 15:04:50 chem|st: checking now :) Mar 24 15:06:27 who does understand korean? there is new samsung linux based phone Mar 24 15:07:03 ZogG: Koreans. Mar 24 15:07:16 FauxFaux oh right Mar 24 15:11:13 Samsung will ship SLP phones from 2011 Mar 24 15:11:14 http://www.oss.kr/?module=file&act=procFileDownload&file_srl=1609&sid=96028cc2f522ec804ec973e9b92d5bd9 Mar 24 15:12:24 * timeless_w7ip departs Mar 24 15:12:52 MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer lcuk ^ check the pdf Mar 24 15:13:05 why? Mar 24 15:13:23 pdf does not work well through vnc Mar 24 15:14:59 it's presentetion for samsung new mobile linux os with LiMo and it's device independent Mar 24 15:18:15 meh Mar 24 15:20:03 MohammadAG, didn't like it? Mar 24 15:20:22 debian based. but istead of Qt efl =) Mar 24 15:20:42 e17 =) Mar 24 15:43:39 ZogG, I just hate samsung :) Mar 24 15:44:04 DocScrutinizer, looking at hd-launcher's code, it seems you can define the "cached" image that shows up when you click an app in the .desktop file Mar 24 15:45:31 #define HD_DESKTOP_ENTRY_IGNORE_LOWMEM "X-Maemo-Ignore-Lowmem" <-- this is new Mar 24 15:45:41 and #define HD_DESKTOP_ENTRY_SWITCHER_ICON "X-Maemo-Switcher-Icon" o_O Mar 24 15:47:02 I think you can disable live windows, for whatever reason Mar 24 15:47:34 Can I make my n900 (temporarily) export a file as its mass storage device instead of the whole flash drive? Mar 24 15:49:06 MohammadAG h/qw independent Mar 24 15:55:27 DocScrutinizer, added to http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format#Maemo_extension_keys Mar 24 15:59:06 * -- @video_fname: Where to look for the last-frame video screenshot Mar 24 15:59:06 * for this application. Deduced from some property Mar 24 15:59:06 * in the application's .desktop file. Mar 24 15:59:10 riiight, what? Mar 24 16:00:07 the n900 is the firefly of cell phones Mar 24 16:00:41 I found firefly generally annoying. Mar 24 16:01:19 I'm confused, so live windows are actually screenshots that keep on being generated? Mar 24 16:02:09 MohammadAG, that is what compositing is Mar 24 16:02:34 apps draw onto a texture Mar 24 16:02:42 lcuk, I don't suppose those are being stored on the file system, so why would it attempt to look for them Mar 24 16:02:49 which is then taken and shown on the main framebuffer Mar 24 16:03:06 MohammadAG: Isn't that for the statup splash? Mar 24 16:03:18 MohammadAG: The fake 'look it started quickly' thing? Mar 24 16:03:21 no, that's X-App-Loading-Image Mar 24 16:03:36 love you too, SpeedEvil Mar 24 16:03:45 I'm talking about X-Maemo-Switcher-Icon Mar 24 16:08:48 http://idle.slashdot.org/story/11/03/24/1145245/IPhone-4-Survives-1000-Foot-Fall-From-Plane Mar 24 16:10:17 hahahaha Mar 24 16:10:25 built to last Mar 24 16:10:35 but can it handle a blender? Mar 24 16:14:49 http://idle.slashdot.org/story/11/03/24/1145245/IPhone-4-Survives-1000-Foot-Fall Mar 24 16:15:09 i need to get a case like that for my g2 Mar 24 16:16:05 Macer, actually, yit blends Mar 24 16:16:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1ckCkm8YI Mar 24 16:16:26 gets better signal afterwards too Mar 24 16:16:40 * SpeedEvil checks to see if his submission has been accepted. Mar 24 16:16:49 Meh - no blended n900 Mar 24 16:17:21 SpeedEvil, ask them Mar 24 16:17:26 SpeedEvil: the n900 would have defense lasers that destroy the blender Mar 24 16:17:29 I did. Mar 24 16:17:31 I think they tried to though Mar 24 16:17:43 I submitted the n900 as a suggestion of stuff to blend. Mar 24 16:17:44 and it was too tough Mar 24 16:17:53 public submission/voting list? Mar 24 16:17:58 lies! haha Mar 24 16:18:02 yes Mar 24 16:18:11 where link? Mar 24 16:18:30 419 people here would like to see it and thousands more on all the other channels and twitter and facebook etc Mar 24 16:18:50 haha Mar 24 16:19:02 they shouldnt blend them Mar 24 16:19:05 is there a gles equivalent to libgtkglext1-dev on maemo Mar 24 16:19:06 417, ChanServ and infobot can't watch, they're too young Mar 24 16:19:13 i am sure they will be rare soon Mar 24 16:19:19 or is libgles2-sgx-img-dev suitable enough Mar 24 16:19:32 http://www.willitblend.com/ - link on left 'suggest stuff to blend' Mar 24 16:20:48 they should blend a cityman 900 Mar 24 16:21:11 " Mar 24 16:21:12 Because I do not think it will. Mar 24 16:21:12 N900 is tougher than any of the lesser devices. Mar 24 16:21:12 thousands of enthusiasts worldwide will enjoy watching :D" Mar 24 16:21:30 (they ask why you want to see it blended) Mar 24 16:21:36 http://www.willitblend.com/suggestions.aspx Mar 24 16:22:26 infact I might submit another one "Because Macer doesn't think we should" Mar 24 16:22:28 Thanks for your suggestion! Mar 24 16:23:35 according to jokes heard, the rest of the tech world would not believe N900 will even fit in the blender, let alone be turned into smoke Mar 24 17:14:05 hi all, since a couple of weeks the textedits on my N900 are black (instead of white) and I cannot read the text. anyone has an idea of what happen? Mar 24 17:15:41 bash`: in the shell? Mar 24 17:15:52 pupnik_: no, the UIs Mar 24 17:16:01 i think he may mean all gtk text entry widgets Mar 24 17:16:14 to which i'd say try another theme Mar 24 17:16:19 BCMM: yes, the right way to explain is that Mar 24 17:16:25 BCMM: how to reinstall the default? Mar 24 17:16:56 just set the theme back? Mar 24 17:17:14 if this helps, doesn't happen with every apps, but only with someone Mar 24 17:17:35 MohammadAG: unfortunately doesn't work Mar 24 17:17:50 Qt or Gtk apps? Mar 24 17:18:06 MohammadAG: good catch, PyQt Mar 24 17:18:58 hmm Mar 24 17:19:12 try apt-get --reinstall install libqt4-gui python2.5-qt4-gui Mar 24 17:21:06 MohammadAG: didn't work :( Mar 24 17:21:31 which app is it? Mar 24 17:21:45 smscon-editor, happen with GRead too Mar 24 17:23:12 hmm, no ideas, sorry Mar 24 17:23:30 MohammadAG: ok...thanks anyway Mar 24 17:24:21 MohammadAG: I'm reinstalling n900ftp Mar 24 17:24:43 I disinstalled it recently and it needs more pyqt libs Mar 24 17:25:49 hmm, yeah, could be python2.5-qt4-maemo5 Mar 24 17:25:57 or libqt4-maemo5, since I think those sets styles Mar 24 17:34:58 nothing... Mar 24 17:38:17 something... Mar 24 18:01:21 Hi all. Running maemo hackers on a n810, my 'dark grey' in osso-xterm is pitch black Mar 24 18:01:29 is there a way to configure palettes ? Mar 24 18:03:26 This seems to be bug 7164 Mar 24 18:03:29 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/7164 osso-xterm dark grey color shown as black Mar 24 18:03:31 marked as solved, put probably not my version Mar 24 18:03:39 yeah, exactly, that one Mar 24 18:03:52 great bot Mar 24 18:12:40 Zevv, just apply http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/vte/commit/8ba1088e3bf0e9da21b251f2971222a0ed0950c1 on osso-xterm's source Mar 24 18:12:51 then builds Mar 24 18:12:54 build* Mar 24 18:14:34 MohammadAG: yeah, I found that out just a few secs ago Mar 24 18:14:40 too bad i don't have the sdk at hand Mar 24 18:14:46 was hoping for the easy way out, of course :) Mar 24 18:15:49 No N810 here, so I don't have the Diablo SDK :/ Mar 24 18:16:25 np Mar 24 18:27:20 so I heard t-mobile is replacing all 3g handsets Mar 24 18:27:26 will that affect the n900? Mar 24 18:30:25 it will, the N900 will not have 3G service in the United States Mar 24 18:30:36 well Mar 24 18:30:50 that will happen IF the acquisition goes through Mar 24 18:31:16 which will probably take more than a year Mar 24 18:31:29 oh ok Mar 24 18:31:40 cause if that happened recently that would suck Mar 24 18:32:00 but a year still might be too soon Mar 24 18:32:14 as the n900 seems to be last of its kind really Mar 24 18:32:50 yes, it does Mar 24 18:33:05 but I'm on AT&T's 2.5G service as it is, so no real impact for me Mar 24 18:33:46 this N9 gossip, is there any truth in that? Mar 24 18:34:16 unknown Mar 24 18:34:27 stick with my n810 then Mar 24 18:36:29 i'll stick with my n910 =P Mar 24 18:36:34 :) Mar 24 18:37:56 Zevv: there will be n9 but nobody knows for sure if it will have wp7 or meego Mar 24 18:38:08 Zevv: or only meego phone nokia will release is n950 Mar 24 18:38:09 auch Mar 24 18:38:20 wp7 Mar 24 18:38:28 wp7 isn't bad Mar 24 18:38:33 it's bit limited Mar 24 18:38:38 I will have the n900 with the cssu Mar 24 18:38:41 but less limited than ios Mar 24 18:38:54 and you can jailbreak it Mar 24 18:39:12 hmm, seems that it's so wrong to even need to break your device Mar 24 18:39:33 yea thats a bit unnerving Mar 24 18:39:34 having linux is one of my main reasons for using the n series Mar 24 18:39:39 wmarone_: why would they get rid of 3g? Mar 24 18:39:58 I can develop on my phone without having to get a developer edition Mar 24 18:39:59 wmarone_: or disable old working transmitters Mar 24 18:40:21 so the android NDK has GLESv1_CM.so, and maemo has GLES_CM.so Mar 24 18:40:24 are these the same file? Mar 24 18:40:40 what if they are? Mar 24 18:40:51 no Mar 24 18:40:56 jacekowski: IIRC, AT&T wants to use the frequency for LTE Mar 24 18:41:14 okay, not "same file", but are they both gles v1 libraries Mar 24 18:41:24 LTE is market ready? Mar 24 18:41:38 jacekowski: well, they need to roll it out to stop being behind Verizon Mar 24 18:41:41 meaning, can i link an application using GLES_CM.so when it originally is looking for GLESv1_CM.so, Mar 24 18:41:48 wmarone_: maybe. or they are afraid t-mobile will succeed in their 4g efforts and be a significant competitor Mar 24 18:41:53 And, heh, MetroPCS Mar 24 18:42:07 wmarone_: well, who needs LTE in first place Mar 24 18:42:09 chx: I don't think AT&T was worried about that Mar 24 18:42:20 wmarone_: plain old 3g can deliver like 20MBps Mar 24 18:42:23 jacekowski: faster wireless data access is a good thing Mar 24 18:42:29 i guess I'll just try it and see Mar 24 18:43:04 wmarone_: 42MBps Mar 24 18:43:04 that and having Verizon and AT&T move to a compatible protocol would be nice (maybe, if we can get some carrier-iindependent handsets...) Mar 24 18:43:22 jacekowski: right, I believe "4G" is reserved for LTE Advanced or something Mar 24 18:43:30 which goes even faster Mar 24 18:43:39 wmarone_: wireless can't be fast Mar 24 18:43:45 jacekowski: anything officialy known about the N950 ? Mar 24 18:43:57 Zevv: some bits of information Mar 24 18:43:59 Zevv: not a lot Mar 24 18:44:10 waiting then Mar 24 18:44:13 thauta: Mar 24 18:44:17 no, I mean: thanks Mar 24 18:44:35 jacekowski: arguing this with me is largely fruitless, since I don't really have any control over it... Mar 24 19:13:06 hey anyone here that speaks french? Mar 24 19:14:20 natively? Mar 24 19:14:22 :P Mar 24 19:16:32 je parles like charles Mar 24 19:16:56 rm_work: yes. Mar 24 19:18:13 lol Mar 24 19:18:30 need to know if french uses ellipses Mar 24 19:18:46 translating a sentence with an elipses Mar 24 19:38:49 Everybody seems to be ignoring the fact that an architectural decision was made unilaterally (and behind closed doors) by Intel. Mar 24 19:39:06 Whatever the other issues involved. That's a problem when the governance documentation says that shouldn't happen. Mar 24 19:41:00 GeneralAntilles, which descision? Are we talking about the tracker thing? Mar 24 19:42:42 that mailing list thread is really depressing Mar 24 19:43:06 Kaadlajk, Have an url? Mar 24 19:43:41 mece: it is the tracker thingie, it has changed subject so many times that it is hard to link Mar 24 19:44:20 ah yes. Last I read on it was the "Nokia was not involved in this decision" comment Mar 24 19:45:49 mece: yes. Mar 24 19:46:19 mece: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/482162.html Mar 24 19:46:23 That one's interesting, too. Mar 24 19:46:44 Technical discussions aside, that's really what worries me. Mar 24 19:48:48 yikes that is scary Mar 24 19:50:48 But it's not particularly unsurprising given the project so far. Mar 24 19:51:10 Makes me yearn for Maemo. At least you know where you stand there (even if the position sucks). Mar 24 19:56:32 Hurp, there hostility from a lot more than @nokia.com people. Mar 24 19:57:16 I think everyone coming from maemo is pretty disappointed and not just us, there's a few other people that felt the move was a bit of a crap one. Mar 24 19:58:34 Stskeeps ftw http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/482172.html Mar 24 19:59:38 Any idea how to resolve "input/output error" while trying to mount a windows/cifs share? Mar 24 20:02:48 alterego: are you reading the !@nokia.com bit as hostility coming from nokia people? Mar 24 20:03:15 wmarone_: that's the impression it gives isn't it? Or am I missing something? Mar 24 20:03:49 I think it was meant as a not, IE from people not @nokia.com (none-too-subtle jab at the Intel folks is how I read it) Mar 24 20:04:06 Oh, Mar 24 20:04:09 and considering Arjan's responses, I'm not terribly surprised Mar 24 20:04:16 Yeah, I must have misinterpreted that. Mar 24 20:24:34 Hey folks, I'm trying to find a WiFi password for one of the connections I've got stored - unfortunately n900's connection manager doesn't seem to have an option to show me the password. Mar 24 20:24:42 Where else can I find it? Mar 24 20:27:04 jMCg, walk over to the router and see if there is a little yellow postit note, or just ask the owner. Mar 24 20:30:22 GeneralAntilles: what happened? i missed something, I feel Mar 24 20:30:32 GeneralAntilles: what is all the noise about mailing lists and Intel and Meego stuff Mar 24 20:31:04 rm_work: Arjan came out and said. "We're switching to these technologies." Mar 24 20:32:16 jMCg, probably stored in gconf Mar 24 20:32:28 What's the best email client for maemo? Mar 24 20:32:30 http://mwkn.net/2011/11/devel.html Mar 24 20:32:37 outlook Mar 24 20:32:48 ?! Mar 24 20:32:51 :P Mar 24 20:33:14 rm_work: basically, Intel is apparently making closed-door unilateral architecture decisions to remove Nokia-backed technology from MeeGo. Mar 24 20:34:49 So does this mean basically nothing for the upcoming planned 'meego' device - except that any work on those subsystems is now going to have to be internal? Mar 24 20:36:26 gconftool-2 -R /system/osso/connectivity/IAP | grep passp Mar 24 20:38:00 GeneralAntilles: ok, but from what i can tell, they're changing them to things that are OPEN. so... why is that bad? it's like they're smacking nokia for all the closed-source / proprietary crap they've pulled in the past Mar 24 20:38:06 GeneralAntilles: unless i'm missing something Mar 24 20:38:31 rm_work: nothing nokia source was closed, last I checked Mar 24 20:38:31 rm_work, Tracker is open. Mar 24 20:38:40 and also ridiculously bad Mar 24 20:39:00 tracker is the source of a ton of problems IIRC >_> Mar 24 20:39:08 or rather, nothing that isn't N900-specific Mar 24 20:39:12 would be nice if they could get rid of it entirely Mar 24 20:39:35 The big issue is the unilateral Intel arch decision Mar 24 20:39:44 sure, and apparently they intend on doing so. but it would be nice if they did it in the open Mar 24 20:39:46 moving to a well-known standard like Evolution / EvolutionSync sounds like one of the best decisions i've heard out of that project in a while Mar 24 20:39:56 rm_work, that doesn't seem to be the consensus for MeeGo Mar 24 20:40:03 :/ Mar 24 20:40:22 Well, I wish they hadn't switched to RPM, but that was a concern for like... forever ago Mar 24 20:40:23 rm_work, again the technical stuff isn't the core issue Mar 24 20:40:33 it's not that WHAT but the HOW? Mar 24 20:40:57 so, it's not the decisions they made (possibly good ones?) but that they made them without nokia consulatation? Mar 24 20:41:09 *consultation Mar 24 20:41:15 It's the Intel half of the arch team making closed-door unilateral decisions Mar 24 20:41:24 well, there *is* no Nokia half Mar 24 20:41:25 right? Mar 24 20:41:27 That's not how it works. Mar 24 20:41:30 so... yeah Mar 24 20:41:34 No, there are two people from Nokia. Mar 24 20:41:43 Neither of them were consulted. :) Mar 24 20:42:02 People aren't making mountains out of molehills here. Mar 24 20:42:37 damn you GAN900 and your reason Mar 24 20:42:40 just read a post that said it was two people, Arjan from Intel and someone from Nokia, and the Nokia person had resigned a bit ago, so it was just the one guy Mar 24 20:42:42 we are trying to get riled up here Mar 24 20:43:21 GAN900: it was the post you linked: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/482162.html Mar 24 20:43:25 we make mountains out of mountains! Mar 24 20:43:53 rm_work, that's the TSG, not the arch team. :) Mar 24 20:43:57 ah Mar 24 20:44:36 There's a major anti @nokia attitude issue emanating from Intel Mar 24 20:44:45 anyone have the smtp auth failed on outgoing gmail in the default email client? Mar 24 20:46:09 could it be that nokia is wtf Mar 24 20:52:08 how do you merge two mail accounts? Mar 24 20:52:19 cat Mar 24 20:53:32 lcuk, really? Mar 24 20:54:05 I want to delete the email account, then make a new one, then import all of the old emails (but they get deleted, I think, if the account is deleted) Mar 24 20:54:34 internetishard, no I was joking. Mar 24 20:54:58 yeah I know, the "really" was directed at the joke Mar 24 20:55:01 internetishard: system mail accounts? IMAP accounts? Mar 24 20:55:20 imap from the default n900 mail client Mar 24 20:55:26 theres an imap_copy tool in linux... Mar 24 20:55:27 erk Mar 24 20:55:33 dunno if you can do it ON your n900 Mar 24 20:55:42 wheres the problem then, all the mail will be retained server-side Mar 24 20:55:49 but if it's IMAP, it's all serverside anyway Mar 24 20:55:57 what nidO said Mar 24 20:56:09 okay, the reason I'm doing this is making a new gmail account from scratch fixes my outgoing mail problems, while no combination or change of settings on the existing one does Mar 24 20:56:44 you're just deleting and re-adding the same gmail account, right? Mar 24 20:56:48 nidO: how do I get it to download all of it again then? Mar 24 20:56:51 yep Mar 24 20:56:54 it just will. Mar 24 20:56:58 it's IMAP. Mar 24 20:57:04 just re-add the account and all the mail will get re-downloaded Mar 24 20:57:09 its all still sitting in the gmail acct Mar 24 20:57:10 only POP3 does download&delete Mar 24 20:57:20 IMAP keeps it all on the server Mar 24 20:58:59 okay Mar 24 20:59:11 it seems to be downloading more and more of the old mail Mar 24 20:59:17 I'll check later if it gets it all Mar 24 21:02:30 it should only download the top 100 headers or so Mar 24 21:02:35 maybe more depending on settings Mar 24 21:02:59 it will download more when you try to scroll back though... i mean, it is all *there*, just the mail client won't be retrieving *everything* Mar 24 21:04:50 LOLWUT, i had never seen or even heard this kind of thing existed: http://vimeo.com/12556898 Mar 24 21:06:27 rm_work: so old. Mar 24 21:06:34 yeah, i imagine Mar 24 21:06:46 but how did i never know it existed Mar 24 21:09:43 where was the site that had me and lcuk and a bunch of people talking about the n900? :P Mar 24 21:10:15 http://n900-mobile.co.uk Mar 24 21:10:39 lol Mar 24 21:11:55 ...up to 24 apps? Mar 24 21:12:38 24 apps? Unpossible! Mar 24 21:12:52 24? Mar 24 21:14:53 :P Mar 24 21:15:23 i feel like i should save that video somewhere for posterity, because that site will probably go down at some point, possibly soonish Mar 24 21:22:26 All of those stupid Wikia websites seems to bring WebKit browsers to their knees. Mar 24 22:09:21 anyone use the rdesktop port? Mar 24 22:09:39 i cant get the fullscreen icon to go away Mar 24 22:10:07 it makes it impossible to use the corner of the screen Mar 24 22:16:21 Sazpaimon_: I can't either, that seems to be a "feature" Mar 24 22:17:19 what's a good way to automate a password prompt on the n900? Mar 24 22:17:50 This is so I can mount sshfs quickly Mar 24 22:19:39 setup keys properly, o you don't need passwords Mar 24 22:19:42 use an rsa key .. Mar 24 22:20:12 Oh, I'm trying to use two factor Mar 24 22:25:45 internetishard: ssh keys? Mar 24 22:25:52 oh, right Mar 24 22:26:02 so, what's the point of two factors if you're just going to store both of them? Mar 24 22:26:21 both of what? Mar 24 22:26:25 a password and a key? Mar 24 22:26:41 so that I'm not fucked if someone gets ahold of my key Mar 24 22:26:47 have we sussed out how to do fingerprint recognition on multitouch screens yet? Mar 24 22:26:56 * Arkenoi is playing with e7.. appears that web browser is *much* more smooth there :-( Mar 24 22:27:03 or is the resolution not great enough? Mar 24 22:27:31 Arkenoi, lower the screen resolution and you make it easier to do stuff Mar 24 22:27:52 heh. pretty sure both the resolution and the maximum number of simultaneous touches detected are an order of magnitude too low Mar 24 22:28:34 internetishard: but you are proposing storing the password on the n900, to automate things, right? Mar 24 22:28:49 oh no Mar 24 22:28:55 I want to automate the mount process Mar 24 22:28:58 HEH Mar 24 22:29:00 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/24/google-keeping-honeycomb-source-code-on-ice-says-its-not-ready/ Mar 24 22:29:01 so it has the key and when I click mount or wahtever Mar 24 22:29:02 BCMM: more like 3 orders Mar 24 22:29:06 I want to be prompted for the password Mar 24 22:29:14 and keyboard is definitely better as well :-( Mar 24 22:29:27 SpeedEvil: for touch points, definitely. i have no idea about resolution Mar 24 22:29:33 SpeedEvil: but at least 2, yes Mar 24 22:29:48 internetishard: ah, i see. so not really "automate" at all Mar 24 22:30:23 internetishard: so you're using a key with a passphrase, rather than using normal ssh keyboard auth? Mar 24 22:30:42 yeah, it is key + pass auth (two factor) Mar 24 22:30:55 how long is your password? Mar 24 22:30:57 and I'm pretty sure sshfs works on maemo, but I haven't tried yet Mar 24 22:31:10 like 8 chars with specials Mar 24 22:31:26 keeping the key safe doesn't seem like a bit deal, really Mar 24 22:31:36 text looks like shit due to low dpi Mar 24 22:31:44 i mean, use a key just for the n900, erase the key from the server if the n900 is lost Mar 24 22:32:06 as for compromising the n900 without stealing it; if that happens, your keystrokes can be logged anyway Mar 24 22:32:06 n900 doesn't have great security, though eh? Mar 24 22:32:15 I mean, I've been meaning to get iptables on it Mar 24 22:32:15 (see last line) Mar 24 22:32:36 internetishard: there appears to be a slight misconception here Mar 24 22:32:57 setting up firewall rules to block ports is a poor substitute for simply not having servers listening in the first place Mar 24 22:33:14 for sure Mar 24 22:33:33 but in any case, if the n900 gets pwned, your passphrase can be logged Mar 24 22:34:18 i can't really see a situation that the passphrase would prevent other than your n900 physically being stolen by somebody who uses the key before you get a chance to take it's pair off the server Mar 24 22:35:24 It didn't seem utterly useless in this case since the server's data is important Mar 24 22:36:02 either you trust the n900 enough to log in to the server using it, or you don't... Mar 24 22:36:17 also, i still don't see how iptables will help to "secure" the n900 Mar 24 22:37:08 If you allow logging in from only your local wifi net,forex Mar 24 22:38:11 of course, but he seems to feel it's insecure by default or until a firewall is put in place Mar 24 22:38:25 whereas the measure you suggest is still not as good as just not installing an sshd Mar 24 22:38:44 Sure. Mar 24 22:38:51 heh, Google won't dump Android 3.0's source code on the interwebz Mar 24 22:39:13 i could be missing something in this case, but a lot of people feel that way by being used to windows xp Mar 24 22:39:32 is the text in lower-left and lower-right readable on your n900? http://i.imgur.com/MAqJi.png Mar 24 22:39:49 which was, indeed, not suitable for use on the internet without a NAT router or 3rd-party firewall software Mar 24 22:39:50 or would you want an even bigger font, darker background... Mar 24 22:41:57 pupnik_: repost Mar 24 22:42:38 http://i.imgur.com/MAqJi.png Mar 24 22:44:03 It's basically readable in good conditions. Mar 24 22:45:20 MohammadAG: curious to know what the real reason is, really Mar 24 22:46:37 dunno SpeedEvil - i think the purple and orange needs to be brighter Mar 24 22:47:00 my guess is "exclusivity" cause it'll appear on all sorts of cheaper devices once it hits the AOSP Mar 24 22:47:10 Teehee Mar 24 22:47:15 Android isn't open source at all. Mar 24 22:47:32 well, there's a lot of stuff which is GPL there Mar 24 22:47:40 so they don't have much choice for those Mar 24 22:48:01 well, Google can do anything it wants, but Motorola has to ship the sources for the xoom kernel, for example Mar 24 22:48:10 and that's all Mar 24 22:48:11 I don't get how people delude themselves into thinking Google is their friend (or the friend of open source). Mar 24 22:51:03 It's really not googles problem if the vendors don't provide open-source. Mar 24 22:51:13 GeneralAntilles, because the dancing android that was on engadget the other day is cute? Mar 24 22:51:15 (for the GPL componenrts, where they should) Mar 24 22:51:41 It is Google's decision not to release platform source. Mar 24 22:52:04 in Android 3.0's case, yes Mar 24 22:56:25 MohammadAG: and people might think google is their friend because they don't have any other friend Mar 24 22:57:02 MS, Apple, Nokia aren't exactly looking friendly right now Mar 24 22:57:39 there also seems to be no way to zoom with rdesktop Mar 24 22:58:08 not very good for precision clicks :/ Mar 24 23:02:36 how do you make the indexers not look in specific dirs? Mar 24 23:03:52 ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg Mar 24 23:03:53 from memrory Mar 24 23:04:05 Fiddle with that, and you can exclude dirs. Mar 24 23:10:54 despite low screen resolution, no auto focus and no memory card, i'd switch to e7 if it could run maemo/meego. symbian is disaster, not an option anyways. Mar 24 23:11:48 symbian isn't a disaster Mar 24 23:11:55 symbian is very good fast os Mar 24 23:11:59 it's just developer hostile Mar 24 23:12:18 but if you get used to it's specifics it's really good system Mar 24 23:13:00 developer hostile and lacking unified communications. i use instant messaging very much and symbian sucks in that. Mar 24 23:13:36 only phone with that unified was n900 Mar 24 23:13:47 and even that not so much Mar 24 23:14:06 have to notice there is great progress since s60r3fp2, no more "out of memory" all the way at least Mar 24 23:14:30 symbian was running on much more resource constrained devices Mar 24 23:15:25 the funniest thing with that there was plenty of memory available, "memory" meant some fixed size internal allocation structures Mar 24 23:16:19 that was tradeoff with resource usage Mar 24 23:16:29 symbian started off on devices that had less than 1M of ram Mar 24 23:16:49 and it scaled up way better than any other os i've ever seen Mar 24 23:16:57 but installing ~50+ applications and having 500+ contacts in address book among with several "plugins" like nokia conversations rendered my old e90 almost.. well, not really unusable, but you had to know what to close before you run another thing Mar 24 23:17:05 and slow as hell Mar 24 23:17:37 i had over 2k contacts in my old ngage Mar 24 23:18:00 i have about 1k, problems started at 500 Mar 24 23:18:05 just because one time i messed up things and stuff got doubled Mar 24 23:18:12 s80 was worse, though Mar 24 23:18:15 when syncing with gnokii Mar 24 23:18:27 ah, and syncing was hell all the time Mar 24 23:18:43 but never had any problems with it Mar 24 23:18:47 it was just working fine Mar 24 23:18:56 i remember it as being faster than n900 contacts Mar 24 23:44:52 Well this suck Mar 24 23:44:53 s Mar 24 23:45:07 With TMO being bought out this means no more N900 in the USA :( Mar 24 23:45:13 At least with decent mobile speeds Mar 24 23:52:27 Jef91, why? Mar 24 23:53:05 please call it something besides TMO, which is talk.maemo.org Mar 24 23:53:07 you scared me Mar 24 23:53:10 :) Mar 24 23:53:37 Arkenoi only company thats gives n900 3g speeds state sides Mar 24 23:53:51 After AT&T buys them they are taking down that 3g band Mar 24 23:54:00 erm Mar 24 23:54:26 wont there be a few ppl like a million or ten who sues AT&T out of existence if it does that? Mar 24 23:54:26 Jef91, why taking down frequencies they already own? Mar 24 23:54:43 seems illogical to me Mar 24 23:54:45 you cant just go in and take away AWS service... Mar 24 23:54:57 Upkeep costs Mar 24 23:55:05 I would think they would rather build on it Mar 24 23:55:08 Nope, they are within their rights to do that Mar 24 23:55:11 it's already up to 42 mbps isnt it? Mar 24 23:55:16 They are going to "give" peole new handhelds Mar 24 23:55:31 but as many of us know, no handheld is the n900 Mar 24 23:55:36 were are you hearing all these things? Mar 24 23:55:37 that'd be a very costly endeavour, give everyone a new device who is using AWS. Mar 24 23:55:43 yeah Mar 24 23:55:51 sounds reddit bullshit to me :) Mar 24 23:55:52 or are you just making them up Mar 24 23:55:54 yeah Mar 24 23:56:35 there is no way they are not going to use the tmobile frequencies Mar 24 23:56:45 that spectrum is worth a shit ton Mar 24 23:56:45 in my imagination AT&T will just use TMO's existing network to provide LTE Mar 24 23:56:53 and expand it Mar 24 23:57:01 that'd be very logical wouldnt it? Mar 24 23:57:06 they already have a 42mbps network Mar 24 23:57:15 that's quite something. Mar 24 23:57:22 AT&T can't match that, not even close Mar 24 23:58:22 see http://blog.laptopmag.com/hands-on-t-mobiles-new-42-mbps-network-faster-than-lte here. AT&T is so behind, it's not even mentioned. Mar 25 00:00:04 the problem will be data plans. if you dont have an imagination of what will transpire, https://www.orderrogers.ca/rocket/data-plans check this. Mar 25 00:02:34 heh Mar 25 00:02:44 All users would benefit from a simple unified data plan. Mar 25 00:03:12 Text message costs per byte are clearly what this should be based on. Mar 25 00:03:21 heh Mar 25 00:03:53 wow Mar 25 00:04:02 I wish I could get that network in chicago Mar 25 00:04:07 I get round 2mb here Mar 25 00:04:08 burst up to 5 Mar 25 00:08:48 don't start too many projects Mar 25 00:22:13 hey Mar 25 00:22:38 is it illegal to decompile an android app to recode it? Mar 25 00:25:26 probably Mar 25 00:26:08 sounds OK to me Mar 25 00:29:37 in the states we just have laws preventing "unauthorized use of a computing resource" Mar 25 00:30:13 which does not cover decompilation of software you have license to use. Mar 25 00:30:37 who cares about what laws are there in the states...? Mar 25 00:30:39 and the federal DMCA, which only protects products with "protection mechanisms" Mar 25 00:30:44 maybe Pillum does. Mar 25 00:30:47 EULAs? Mar 25 00:30:55 I don't live in the state, so I don't. Mar 25 00:30:55 They usually say 'cannot decompile, ...' Mar 25 00:31:14 And AIUI EULAs have been decided to be binding - at least what law has been made around them. Mar 25 00:31:32 I live in germany Mar 25 00:32:06 In Europe, the 1991 Software Directive explicitly provides for a right to decompile in order to achieve interoperability. Mar 25 00:36:10 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31991L0250:EN:HTML Mar 25 00:36:58 There is the "Article 6" about decompilation Mar 25 01:55:52 Any idea how to make the N900 create a resolv.conf based on the data sent from my mobile provider? Mar 25 02:05:10 so, I'm trying to get fldigi working Mar 25 02:05:30 sound is a bit stuttery with the version available through the debian chroot Mar 25 02:13:31 good morning Mar 25 02:26:56 hallo Termana **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 25 02:59:57 2011