**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 30 02:59:57 2011 Mar 30 03:32:40 is anyone interested in this remmina port or is it just me Mar 30 03:32:49 timeless_w7ip: 20.2010.36-2.002 Mar 30 03:38:26 Sazpaimon__, there's a vnc client too so i suspect some will... Mar 30 03:39:03 will be Mar 30 03:43:22 Sazpaimon__, do the port for yourself and upload it and talk about it :) Mar 30 03:43:29 screenshots help! Mar 30 03:55:39 nox-, NX client too Mar 30 03:55:49 i havent tested either, just the RDP client Mar 30 03:55:57 lcuk, like I said, I already 'ported' t Mar 30 03:55:58 *it Mar 30 03:56:11 it isnt hildonized though Mar 30 03:56:13 yeah good stuff for those that need it :) Mar 30 04:04:09 nox-, i dont know enough about maemo's dpkg differences, though Mar 30 04:04:37 i just did a straight debian dpkg-buildpackage of the sid repository on the sdk Mar 30 04:04:50 are there any differences on the package building process Mar 30 04:05:13 im not deep enough into this yet to know that... Mar 30 04:33:06 How can I reflesh maemo onto my memory, unfortunately I made a 'dd' operation for that partition while trying to make a 'dd' with the meego image instead of the sd card ? Mar 30 05:36:50 what's the latest firmware? Mar 30 05:36:55 20.2010.36-2.002 ? Mar 30 07:02:12 Morning, all Mar 30 07:04:05 Jaffa, \o Mar 30 07:18:37 I accidentally deleted the emmc content of my N900 gadget, which image should I copy onto the emmc ? Mar 30 07:20:10 djszapi, ;) morning. both, as per: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 Mar 30 07:20:10 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 -> maybe this one ? Mar 30 07:20:30 lcuk: I was lucky. Mar 30 07:20:42 the usb mass storage works just fine with the rescue menu Mar 30 07:20:49 I mean I see the EMMC from the host. Mar 30 07:23:22 lcuk: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php -> I have no idea what the production id is Mar 30 07:24:52 djszapi, it tells you where it is printed Mar 30 07:26:26 no clue which image to download Mar 30 07:27:01 djszapi: it's imei Mar 30 07:27:20 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Mar 30 07:27:24 ? Mar 30 07:27:49 yeah, seems this one. Mar 30 07:28:34 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -> ohh this is newer Mar 30 07:29:05 which /join #Economics Mar 30 07:29:09 hah oops Mar 30 07:29:23 pupnik: :-) Mar 30 07:29:56 there is no undo in life! Mar 30 07:30:38 what u doingk djszapi - reflashing a n900? Mar 30 07:31:19 http://www.failepicfail.com//epic-fail/1011/dorito-fail-theone-epic-fail-1291155392.jpg here is a weird weird sfw picture Mar 30 07:31:36 can anyone here read japanese? Mar 30 07:31:57 Of course. Mar 30 07:32:12 please translate picture Mar 30 07:34:40 lcuk: ERROR: APE algorithm has to be provided to flash all the subimages Mar 30 07:34:56 lcuk: http://paste.kde.org/8508/ Mar 30 07:35:30 djszapi: fiasco first then emmc Mar 30 07:35:41 djszapi: and use n900 flasher Mar 30 07:35:49 djszapi: not n8x0 flasher Mar 30 07:36:06 djszapi: 3.5 is for n900 Mar 30 07:36:25 jacekowski, :) that is later flasher Mar 30 07:36:40 no it's not Mar 30 07:36:45 flasher 3.10.5 (Feb 14 2011) Harmattan Mar 30 07:36:50 pupnik: "Electric Anma Revival". I have no idea what "Anma" is. Mar 30 07:36:52 ah Mar 30 07:36:53 it is Mar 30 07:36:55 that is certainly not n8x0 Mar 30 07:36:55 well, I just deleted the emmc, not sure why I need the fiasco, if that was not deleted... Mar 30 07:36:59 * lcuk giggles Mar 30 07:37:09 jacekowski: lcuk is right Mar 30 07:37:10 lcuk: i looked at it like 50 vs 10 Mar 30 07:37:16 nooo... Mar 30 07:37:20 i'm not fully woken up yet Mar 30 07:37:25 :-) Mar 30 07:37:28 still, try 3.5 Mar 30 07:37:29 nor is djszapi :) Mar 30 07:37:32 i know it works Mar 30 07:38:05 djszapi, you need to reflash both because unfortunately, optification moves some files onto the emmc Mar 30 07:38:18 so if you just flashed the emmc, you bootup with no fonts or themes etc Mar 30 07:38:32 and half the app data missing Mar 30 07:38:38 derf: that's too weird for brain. why do they do stuff like that? Mar 30 07:38:41 so, you have to reflash emmc as well as rootfs Mar 30 07:38:54 Because it's Japan. Japan is like that, all the time. Mar 30 07:39:50 is this the proposed fiasco image for flashing ? http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Mar 30 07:41:01 lcuk ^ Mar 30 07:42:21 that looks right djszapi yes. Mar 30 07:46:01 lcuk: same output for the fiasco image. Mar 30 07:46:17 djszapi: use flasher on PC Mar 30 07:46:25 http://paste.kde.org/8511/ Mar 30 07:47:02 ~tell djszapi about flashing Mar 30 07:47:20 djszapi, it is the version of the flasher I think. Mar 30 07:47:50 I was never aware there is any new version of flasher for PC Mar 30 07:48:12 so I gather you're running that cmd on N900/maemo Mar 30 07:48:14 djszapi: and you are in flashing mode on your phone? Mar 30 07:48:53 jacekowski: good question, what is the flasher option to check that out ? Mar 30 07:49:10 djszapi: look at display on a phone Mar 30 07:49:12 or you installed some weid flasher version from dunnowhere Mar 30 07:49:20 djszapi: does it say NOKIA with small usb logo in a corner Mar 30 07:49:22 djszapi: for flashing maemo5 to n900, use the flasher 3.5 from tablets-dev http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php Mar 30 07:49:31 jacekowski: yup. Mar 30 07:49:52 sandst1: Actually, I was doing that ;) Mar 30 07:50:15 djszapi: this log says 3.10.5?? http://paste.kde.org/8511/ Mar 30 07:50:25 is there any ready made converter for n900 .mp4 files to some format that everybody can open Mar 30 07:50:28 you misunderstood... Mar 30 07:50:29 like mpeg or wmv Mar 30 07:50:42 djszapi: get flasher from that website Mar 30 07:50:45 sandst1: after that try I started downloading the 3.5 version.... Mar 30 07:50:55 djszapi: ookay. well, that should work Mar 30 07:51:38 - ./flasher-3.5: error while loading shared libraries: libusb-0.1.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Mar 30 07:51:38 jacekowski: mplayer? vlc? Mar 30 07:51:42 jacekowski: try avidemux Mar 30 07:51:55 djszapi: install libusb Mar 30 07:52:19 jacekowski: it is obviously installed ;) Mar 30 07:52:36 otherwise my system would behave kinda nasty otherwise. Mar 30 07:52:51 seems not compatible with this libusb version. Mar 30 07:53:10 ohh yes, because of the lib32-libusb-compat and x86_^4 story. Mar 30 07:53:13 x86_64 story Mar 30 07:53:15 * djszapi sighs Mar 30 07:53:51 I have never understood why flasher was not done for the x86_64 architecture, never really understood. Most of the people use x86_64 nowadays. Mar 30 07:54:20 djszapi: I dunno, but I never had any trouble with x86_64 Ubuntu or Debian... Mar 30 07:55:07 robbiethe1st: can you give me an x86_64 flasher binary, please ? Mar 30 07:55:17 there's none Mar 30 07:55:19 I just used the standard 32-bit one Mar 30 07:55:24 It just worked (tm) Mar 30 07:55:53 apparently overhead for archlinux users. Mar 30 07:55:58 you need the 32bit compatibility libs on your system (sorry not awake, so ask somebody who is) Mar 30 07:56:00 and system messing. Mar 30 07:56:11 gotta have the compat libs installed though, right? I swear I remember doing so and it still didn't work. Mar 30 07:56:28 I just pulled out a spare 32-bit laptop and used it, last time I had to reflash Mar 30 07:56:35 I just grabbed the .tar.gz file, extracted the binary, and ran it as root. easy. Oh, and I think I had to rmmod the cdc_phonet and phonet modules IIRC Mar 30 07:57:02 good point Mar 30 07:57:02 lcuk jacekowski: http://paste.kde.org/8512/ Mar 30 07:57:40 I wonder if a 32-bit Virtualbox session would work Mar 30 07:57:58 keithzg: I think it is enough if mess up your system Mar 30 07:58:03 * you Mar 30 07:58:07 * keithzg is tempted to try Mar 30 07:58:14 but I would expect a cleaner solution from the flasher guys :) Mar 30 07:58:16 djszapi, lol you are not having much luck this morning. Mar 30 07:58:22 You're gonna need to run the non-OSS version IIRC, because of the USB device support? Mar 30 07:58:28 lcuk: what is wrong about that this time ? ;) Mar 30 07:58:37 Or, just throw a Ubuntu LiveCD in the drive Mar 30 07:58:38 so the first flash worked but then you could not flash the second part Mar 30 07:58:39 use that Mar 30 07:58:42 that seems off Mar 30 07:58:47 yeah, sadly the OSS version doesn't have USB support Mar 30 07:58:51 lcuk: 'off' ? Mar 30 07:59:30 djszapi, "off" == something not quite right. since your computer did connect and flash once Mar 30 07:59:52 try command again with your n900 in the flashing mode thingy, just like you did for the first image Mar 30 08:00:11 well, I can flash the fiasco image, but not the MMC Mar 30 08:00:23 djszapi: PLEASE READ THE ~flashing PAGE Mar 30 08:00:35 you are NOT supposed to use -R Mar 30 08:01:46 lcuk: k, I cannot now flash the fiasco either. Mar 30 08:01:59 reboot laptop Mar 30 08:02:00 seems the first fiasco flashing made it go to haywire. Mar 30 08:02:13 I once had bug for a few weeks where I could only flash one image per reboot Mar 30 08:02:25 djszapi: PLEASE READ THE ~flashing PAGE Mar 30 08:02:26 something gremlinish in the usb drivers Mar 30 08:02:40 ALL OF IT Mar 30 08:02:41 updating my laptop os worked and not seen it since Mar 30 08:04:21 [2011-03-30 09:52:25] ... Oh, and I think I had to rmmod the cdc_phonet and phonet modules IIRC Mar 30 08:04:52 mmh...lcuk: no u-boot :) Mar 30 08:05:02 seems the fiasco flashing destroys it. Mar 30 08:05:13 of course it does Mar 30 08:07:05 hmmm wait has the N900 ceased production? It's disappeared from Amazon.ca and Omega Cell. Mar 30 08:07:34 ...this might become a problem if the meego device doesn't turn out to be a handset and I never bought a spare N900 . . . Mar 30 08:08:39 Ebay? Mar 30 08:08:49 it hasn't been available in nokia store for a few months Mar 30 08:09:02 I just hope that the one who ended up with my N900 which I lost in a taxi in Dubai was a geek who became happy with it ;) Mar 30 08:09:23 * keithzg feels uneasy now Mar 30 08:10:28 I'd much rather buy a new, retail one than eBay or such (especially since shipping electronics into Canada is surprisingly expensive sometimes) Mar 30 08:11:06 lcuk: just reinstall 'uboot-pr13' ? Mar 30 08:11:18 djszapi, IDK, not using uboot myself Mar 30 08:11:25 oh ok Mar 30 08:11:37 how do you make the dual boot with meego then ? you do not ? Mar 30 08:11:50 * keithzg thinks that if the last Nokia linux device doesn't turn out to be a handset, now, going to finally feel that much-delayed sting of betrayal Mar 30 08:12:30 I boot from flashing the kernel, I have to stay attached to USB for other reasons anyway, so it never seemed much bother Mar 30 08:13:06 wow :) Mar 30 08:13:17 I am not attached to USB on the bus, or on the way at home ;) Mar 30 08:13:22 or in a bar, etc :p Mar 30 08:13:47 didn't they already announce that they'll announce (heh) the new harmattan phone in some meego conference in may? Mar 30 08:14:08 Nope Mar 30 08:14:23 they'll be almost certainly announcing a new *device* Mar 30 08:14:30 they've never, ever specifically said that it'll be a handset Mar 30 08:14:37 * DocScrutinizer fails to see why anybody would want to boot meego while riding a bus Mar 30 08:14:56 and they've submitted diagrams for tablets to the FCC, so . . . Mar 30 08:15:55 don't get me wrong, a proper Linux tablet would be really cool, but if they remove the N900 from the market and mine breaks, what the hell am I going to do for a phone? Mar 30 08:16:26 keithzg: but they did say it will be harmattan and not meego proper, which have never been intended for tablets Mar 30 08:16:35 keithzg: do they still have phone booths where you live? Mar 30 08:16:44 (it worked for clark kent!) Mar 30 08:17:41 Trewas: it's "Harmattan" in a large part because their build and development infrastructure is still their own (ex. Debian-based) Mar 30 08:18:21 remember, all the Maemo devices before the N900 were tablets too, albeit of that earlier breed; for their final Linux device to be a non-phone wouldn't be unprecedented Mar 30 08:18:34 keithzg: btw "production" of N900 probably stopped mid of last year the latest Mar 30 08:19:03 keithzg: I don't think Nokia is building to order in batches of 12 Mar 30 08:19:05 timeless_w7ip: Heh, well I have spare phones I could use instead, but I hardly ever use my N900 for phoning! Mar 30 08:19:39 keithzg: It's like printing books (been in the old days) Mar 30 08:20:25 DocScrutinizer: If they're gearing up for an N900-alike new device, that's alright. But if not, then all us huge geeks out here will be left without a proper Linux-based phone. The closest will be WebOS! Mar 30 08:22:31 keithzg: fab line is ramped up for RX-51 (two weeks), a first test batch of maybe 1000 is produced (6h) and analyzed for shield, then fab line gets some adjustments, and they run it for like 4 weeks to produce some million devices. Then sell those Mar 30 08:23:00 s/shield/yield/ Mar 30 08:23:01 DocScrutinizer meant: keithzg: fab line is ramped up for RX-51 (two weeks), a first test batch of maybe 1000 is produced (6h) and analyzed for yield, then fab line gets some adjustments, and they run it for like 4 weeks to produce some million devices. Then sell those Mar 30 08:25:08 keithzg: there'll be some 100,000 NEW original devices N900 on shelf, to sell. I don't think they ran short of devices Mar 30 08:25:32 it's another story when they stop advertising it Mar 30 08:26:38 DocScrutinizer: Problem is, it seems to have disappeared from stores that don't even have shelves, thus don't need to keep inventory themselves. When it runs out at those sorts of places, then I start to think they aren't selling it to anyone anymore. Mar 30 08:28:14 Hmmm, it's still available on Amazon.com though. Okay, Step #2: Befriend someone living in the U.S., haha Mar 30 08:28:30 keithzg: those shops don't sell devices that aren't contributing to their profit. There's a time where you kick an item from your list of products you sell, as the maintenance of the page costs more than the few devices sold earn you Mar 30 08:29:24 DocScrutinizer: Amazon is NOT one of those kinds of sites, not for a moment. They have the most ridiculously obscure stuff listed, as long as there's still one person out there who might buy it it's worth it for them. Mar 30 08:30:04 meh Mar 30 08:30:13 It's still up there on the Amazon.ca site. Mar 30 08:30:27 The page is still there, it's just unavailable: http://www.amazon.ca/N900-Nokia-Maemo-Smartphone/dp/B002OB49SW Mar 30 08:31:27 I honestly fail to see your problem Mar 30 08:31:36 why the canadian? Mar 30 08:31:40 it's up on the .com site. Mar 30 08:31:49 yeah, but they refuse to ship to Canada Mar 30 08:32:18 keithzg: so obviously Nokia stopped to produce N900 in Canada ;-P Mar 30 08:32:20 and that stops you? (I am in Canada too.) Mar 30 08:32:41 Well, yeah. I live pretty far from the border, heh. Mar 30 08:32:46 docscrutinizer: wait, did we ever *start* advertising it? Mar 30 08:32:46 meh Mar 30 08:32:55 you dont have an american friend? Mar 30 08:33:02 or , heaven forbid, google :P ? Mar 30 08:33:02 Surprisingly, no. Mar 30 08:33:04 timeless_w7ip: sure Mar 30 08:33:14 there are many remailers Mar 30 08:33:44 Yeah I know, I suppose I could go that route, it just adds an extra layer where something could go wrong Mar 30 08:34:05 no pain, no gain Mar 30 08:34:16 advertising is super expensive and needs to have a return on investment... do you think that n900 could have had a ROI for advertising dollars timeless_w7ip ? Mar 30 08:34:16 And I've had bad experiences with Canadian customs deciding things needed serious taxing before. Mar 30 08:34:39 serious??? Mar 30 08:34:51 timeless_w7ip: e.g. -> http://shop.nokia.de/nokia-de/product.aspx?sku=6958534 witch now also shows "not found" for the first time. " weeks ago it was still available there Mar 30 08:35:00 noo :( Mar 30 08:35:02 s/"/2/ Mar 30 08:35:02 DocScrutinizer meant: timeless_w7ip: e.g. -> http://shop.nokia.de/nokia-de/product.aspx?sku=6958534 witch now also shows 2not found" for the first time. " weeks ago it was still available there Mar 30 08:35:07 our beloved n900 Mar 30 08:35:10 meh Mar 30 08:35:30 "meh"? really? Mar 30 08:35:58 the end is near, stockpile n900 while you can. Mar 30 08:37:29 i hope the nakio e900 gets released soon ;) Mar 30 08:37:32 If only there was some way of getting warning if the N900 was going to go out of stock on Amazon.com, then I could wait for a Nokia "turns out our sole MeeGo device is a handset after all!" announcment until the last minute. Mar 30 08:37:43 as long as there's "buy now" for "NEW" N900 on ebaeh... I'm not worried Mar 30 08:38:14 Yeah, but once it's not available for $350 on Amazon.com the market price is going to start creeping up again. Mar 30 08:38:37 LOL Mar 30 08:38:38 Or maybe outright jump. Mar 30 08:39:00 Hi? =) Mar 30 08:39:12 . Mar 30 08:39:19 Those people gotta get it from somewhere, and nobody's going to sell terribly far below recouping their costs. Mar 30 08:39:40 I just owerwrited /bin/sh... anyother way get it back than reflashing? =) Mar 30 08:40:05 nakkimakkara: /bin/sh is a symlink Mar 30 08:40:59 ln -s buszbox sh Mar 30 08:41:01 IroN900:~# ls -l /bin/sh Mar 30 08:41:03 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2010-06-23 06:13 /bin/sh -> busybox Mar 30 08:41:34 well, most of stuff would overwrite original Mar 30 08:41:39 and symlink would stay Mar 30 08:41:45 so his busybox is probably replaced Mar 30 08:41:55 GOOD! ;-P Mar 30 08:42:08 I just shutted off my n900 and now it no boot.. NOKIA logo comes and shutting down after about 30sec Mar 30 08:42:26 :( Mar 30 08:42:35 hmm, yeah, you nuked messybox then Mar 30 08:42:58 reflashing rootfs should be the easiest fix Mar 30 08:43:16 DocScrutinizer: you're a good egg Mar 30 08:44:23 FFS Mar 30 08:44:34 how to convert these useless mp4 files to something usable Mar 30 08:44:53 well shutting it down was not the best idea :( Mar 30 08:44:59 nakkimakkara: you might want to give rescue-initrd a try, and restore /bin/sh (and /bin/busybox) Mar 30 08:45:11 before that you prolly could've plugged in usb Mar 30 08:45:39 coulda woulda shoulda Mar 30 08:45:59 reflash! Mar 30 08:48:08 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=978304&postcount=32 Mar 30 08:48:56 Reflashing edit partitions? Mar 30 08:49:17 pupnik: LOL Mar 30 08:49:22 nakkimakkara: sorry? Mar 30 08:50:42 "useless" mp4 files? What the hell can't play mp4 in this day and age? Mar 30 08:51:05 reflashing edit partitions or not? Mar 30 08:51:13 nakkimakkara: sorry? Mar 30 08:51:33 nakkimakkara: the question is not possible to answer Mar 30 08:51:44 Why? =D Mar 30 08:51:49 the question does not make sense Mar 30 08:52:21 jacekowski: is there a specific reason why you need to use a format other than mp4? Mar 30 08:52:51 yes Mar 30 08:52:56 nobody can play mp4 Mar 30 08:53:08 who ARE these people that can't play mp4 files? Mar 30 08:53:18 I mean, they even work on my phone! :P Mar 30 08:53:29 anybody who has work computer Mar 30 08:53:31 ...apologies, that was a bit snide, but I do mean that. Mar 30 08:53:34 like here Mar 30 08:53:42 because there is no codecs installed Mar 30 08:53:44 Just run VLC on it Mar 30 08:53:49 as people are not supposed to watch movies Mar 30 08:53:55 and i want to send it to some places Mar 30 08:54:14 * DocScrutinizer suggests a link to youtube then Mar 30 08:54:24 * keithzg agrees with the good doctor! Mar 30 08:54:32 that was exactly what I was about to say. Mar 30 08:54:45 again, blocked in lot of places Mar 30 08:54:46 And of course, even the N900 itself could convert the files to other formats Mar 30 08:55:05 jacekowski: so you're talking about an uphill battle Mar 30 08:55:15 i want to convert that shitty mp4 format to normal wmv Mar 30 08:55:22 but nothing is touching mp4 Mar 30 08:55:29 ummmmm wmv is shitty Mar 30 08:55:32 you want to enable something that sysadmins of your recipients' boxes actively fight Mar 30 08:55:33 no Mar 30 08:55:35 wmv just works Mar 30 08:55:36 it's proprietary and impossible to work with Mar 30 08:55:49 apparently you're using Windows, and I'm using Linux ;) Mar 30 08:55:59 or mpeg Mar 30 08:56:04 i would be happy with mpeg Mar 30 08:56:06 mpeg, that's easy to work with Mar 30 08:56:17 you could convert to that with your N900 itself, I do believe Mar 30 08:56:36 not aware of any graphical program, but mencoder or ffmpeg should do the trick easily Mar 30 08:57:39 heh Mar 30 08:57:49 VIDEO: [YV12] 848x480 12bpp 1000.000 fps 120921.5 kbps (14760.9 kbyte/s) Mar 30 08:57:53 that's where the problem is Mar 30 08:57:58 1000fps Mar 30 08:58:02 wtf Mar 30 08:58:05 * DocScrutinizer anticipates jacekowski's next question: "how to attach a 2MB media file to a mail to somebody who isn't allowed to receive *any* attachments?" Mar 30 08:58:07 fucking morons at nokia Mar 30 08:58:16 it can't be 1000fps Mar 30 08:58:20 something's misreading that Mar 30 08:58:23 no Mar 30 08:59:16 -ofps 25 Mar 30 08:59:24 and it maybe will work Mar 30 08:59:24 it would be cool if our brains worked 10x faster Mar 30 08:59:30 how the fsck is that related to Nokia? Mar 30 08:59:49 DocScrutinizer: it's what mencoder says when i encode file that came from n900 Mar 30 08:59:56 See, that's wrong. Mar 30 09:00:16 That's not what the video framerate the camera app takes is. Mar 30 09:00:19 I'm notorious to insult Nokians (though never anybody personally), but please consider if it's justified before you utter such things Mar 30 09:00:44 it's not, but that's what it writes to file Mar 30 09:00:58 that's what mencoder is saying for some reason Mar 30 09:01:14 when I open the videos I take, it never says anything like that. Mar 30 09:01:39 So it seems unlikely that the problem would lie with any code from Nokia. Mar 30 09:05:19 it would be megacool *if* the camera could take video @ 1000 fps :-D Mar 30 09:05:28 haha Mar 30 09:05:42 man that would be awesome Mar 30 09:05:52 Nokia *does* always have the best cameras Mar 30 09:06:40 well DocScrutinizer Mar 30 09:06:42 would be nice to have class15 microsd's that could actually write the output, too Mar 30 09:06:43 actually I'd be happy with something like 200fps Mar 30 09:06:51 display output framerate includes as you decrease resolution Mar 30 09:06:57 I believe the camera does the same Mar 30 09:07:00 hmm, i looked at mp4 file Mar 30 09:07:08 so you might get close at pixel size -1*-1 Mar 30 09:07:08 and headers says 1000fps Mar 30 09:07:16 but stream header says 25 Mar 30 09:07:29 it's nokia fuck up Mar 30 09:07:56 it's maybe TI DSP lib fsckup Mar 30 09:08:06 or the designer specified 1000fps and actual implementation is just a shade under! :P Mar 30 09:08:11 it's maybe even mpg4 spec fsckup Mar 30 09:09:17 or the fps value has semantics of a multiplier in 0/00 Mar 30 09:11:01 like "playback at 1000/1000*25fps Mar 30 09:12:35 there's quite a few error pathes, it's a bit a shot from the hip to blame Nokia about it Mar 30 09:13:03 Stream #0.0(eng): Video: mpeg4, yuv420p, 848x480 [PAR 1:1 DAR 53:30], 3462 kb/s, 23.92 fps, 250 tbr, 1k tbn, 30k tbc Mar 30 09:13:11 mine seem perfectly fine. Mar 30 09:13:35 that's all from metadata, obviously Mar 30 09:14:07 philurich: what is encoding at 848x480? Mar 30 09:14:16 or rather, for what device do these get created? Mar 30 09:14:20 philurich: stream framerates are ok Mar 30 09:14:31 philurich: it's just global framerate in file header that's wrong Mar 30 09:14:34 I'm just running mencoder on my videos from the N900's camera Mar 30 09:15:53 jacekowski: I see what you're saying here . . . "stream 0 codec frame rate differs from container frame rate: 30000.00 (30000/1) -> 250.00 (250/1) Mar 30 09:15:53 " Mar 30 09:16:08 totem tells me an obviously normal 25ishfps video is 3fps Mar 30 09:16:08 btw the problem of some videos (even from youtube) playing back at NN* original speed is notorious Mar 30 09:17:03 this is why I prefer .mkv to mp4, way less buggy container format. But of course they needed to go with mp4, since it's the only freely available container that's also widely used. Mar 30 09:17:37 * DocScrutinizer suspects a flawed ambiguous spec of fps in mp4 original specifications Mar 30 09:18:40 and for more fun mp4 has timecodes for each frame as well Mar 30 09:18:51 heh Mar 30 09:18:54 or a false friend (see version= mess in all maemo .desktop files) Mar 30 09:19:13 so when you play mp4 file you have 3 ways of playing it Mar 30 09:19:15 * philurich would hardly be surprised, it's what you get when you have a consortium of corporations being the ones decided on spec rather than actual programmers. Mar 30 09:19:17 using file framerate Mar 30 09:19:23 stream framerate Mar 30 09:19:25 timecodes Mar 30 09:19:52 there might be a good reason for that redundancy Mar 30 09:20:17 ...yeah, because they couldn't get everyone to agree on one of them ;) Mar 30 09:20:29 well, whole format came from apple Mar 30 09:20:36 how about recovery from errors, damaged files Mar 30 09:20:56 yeah, I was being snarky Mar 30 09:21:12 the problem comes when there isn't a primary agreed upon method Mar 30 09:21:26 KISS Mar 30 09:21:31 Keep It Simple Stupid Mar 30 09:21:42 now this debate is utterly useless speculation Mar 30 09:21:45 avi dos the job Mar 30 09:21:48 does* Mar 30 09:21:48 it's fair enough to have redundancy, but have a clear heirarchy, so that you can predict the use. Mar 30 09:21:49 yea Mar 30 09:22:33 you don't even know IF it is really redundant, or has a proper semantics beyond what everybody thinks it is Mar 30 09:23:15 please read cononical specs, then you got a base for further debates Mar 30 09:23:55 * DocScrutinizer suspects the coders of mencoder etc also missed on doing this Mar 30 09:24:21 naw, they're a bright bunch as far as I can tell Mar 30 09:24:40 It's quite possible the semantics of fps for the container are NOT what you might like to think it were Mar 30 09:24:48 well sure Mar 30 09:24:58 but they just report that it says something like that, no more. Mar 30 09:25:32 it seems unlikely that they'd be THAT unaware of the spec, if they're the people writing from scratch the implementation Mar 30 09:25:38 [2011-03-30 11:05:07] or the fps value has semantics of a multiplier in 0/00 Mar 30 09:26:05 philurich: you'd be surprised Mar 30 09:26:26 philurich: mp4 spec is based on old mov spec Mar 30 09:26:43 but well, i've converted it now and i'm happy Mar 30 09:27:19 DocScrutinizer: Okay, show me where the code does it then and I'll believe :) but since it is indeed somewhat based on .mov, I suspect a spec problem . . . 'cause that was a shitty container. Mar 30 09:27:51 philurich: I'm not going to do anything like that Mar 30 09:28:11 heh you'd be pretty crazy if you did Mar 30 09:28:20 hmm, i had some work to do today Mar 30 09:28:24 but i don't remember what Mar 30 09:28:43 I'm just pointing at the fact everybody here is just handwaving and shouting at Nokia, without any proper knowledge of the facts Mar 30 09:29:21 I'm not claiming anything else, other than that you seem to be doing the same thing about Mencoder! Mar 30 09:29:42 jacekowski: send a video of an exploding freq converter to sme Israel manufacturer? ;-D Mar 30 09:30:22 philurich: which evidently I didn't Mar 30 09:30:27 DocScrutinizer: well, i was converting these videos first Mar 30 09:30:49 and i have video just before explosion Mar 30 09:30:53 not explosion itself Mar 30 09:31:28 "DocScrutinizer suspects the coders of mencoder etc also missed on doing this" sounds like it to me. Mar 30 09:31:44 I'd be interested in photos of the converter *after* explosion Mar 30 09:33:54 well, it's just a IGBT that exploded Mar 30 09:33:57 philurich: I'm >>suspecting<<, not shouting at anybody and calling names on them Mar 30 09:34:24 when i'll have it back here i'll make some photos of it Mar 30 09:35:23 jacekowski: one of the 100A class? Mar 30 09:35:54 size of a teacup Mar 30 09:35:56 200A Mar 30 09:36:00 :-D Mar 30 09:36:11 and guess what is stupid in whole thing Mar 30 09:36:15 it has 6 huge capacitors Mar 30 09:36:19 3 on bottom Mar 30 09:36:21 3 on top Mar 30 09:36:39 igbts are connected with copper bars Mar 30 09:36:53 yeah, nice Mar 30 09:36:58 and 3 top capacitors are connected directly to these bars Mar 30 09:37:02 no fuse Mar 30 09:37:11 and bottom capacitors have additional 2 bars Mar 30 09:37:24 and fuse to link these bars to igbt bars Mar 30 09:37:35 weird shit Mar 30 09:37:40 fail Mar 30 09:37:47 so if shit happens fuse pops but there is still shitloads energy in capacitors on top that are unfused Mar 30 09:38:01 and it has discharging resistor Mar 30 09:38:02 s Mar 30 09:38:06 fused capacitors - WTF Mar 30 09:38:09 but these are connected only to bottom capacitors Mar 30 09:38:20 DocScrutinizer: supply is also connected there Mar 30 09:38:30 DocScrutinizer: before fuse Mar 30 09:38:39 AAH Mar 30 09:38:45 DocScrutinizer: but idea with fuses is to minimise damage to everything Mar 30 09:39:01 and if you have 4mili farad caps x3 @400V Mar 30 09:39:09 yeeeha Mar 30 09:39:13 unfused Mar 30 09:39:25 if igbt goes wrong it can only explode Mar 30 09:39:48 yeah, switch it ON while vlatge applied and BOOM Mar 30 09:39:54 voltage* Mar 30 09:42:13 OTOH 1mF@300V was what I built for fun by connecting in parallel several motor starter C, charged it via diode and incandescent lamp from 220V~ then shorted it for the bang Mar 30 09:42:28 wasn't THAT powerful Mar 30 09:42:45 a 200A IGBT shouldn't exactly explode on that Mar 30 09:43:34 DocScrutinizer: I wasn't doing anything beyond speculation either. Mar 30 09:47:35 jacekowski: I guess the IGBT got a false trigger (or voltage surge causing it to break down and switch on) and then drew some 20..100kA from the copper rails, and that was sufficient to blow it up so fast not even the fuse was fast enough to help Mar 30 09:48:15 DocScrutinizer: well, that converter was doing strange things for months now Mar 30 09:48:23 DocScrutinizer: and it started making some funny noises Mar 30 09:48:33 and voltage on that phase was fluctuating Mar 30 09:48:44 hmm, that's been how it started Mar 30 09:48:52 it could have been faulty igbt from the beggining Mar 30 09:49:28 funny noises expected when you switch on both trunks of a totem pole output stage Mar 30 09:51:36 he current spikes running thru those copper bars will cause magnetic fields that can even make the steel case vibrate and create funny noises Mar 30 09:52:05 kA as mentioned above Mar 30 09:52:22 not that kind of noise Mar 30 09:52:28 let me just upload the video Mar 30 09:52:38 :-D Mar 30 09:52:52 more like tortured igbt noise Mar 30 09:55:47 Robot101: @all: how would I find out about the meaning of uint values in: Mar 30 09:55:54 signal sender=:1.20 -> dest=(null destination) serial=9969 path=/com/nokia/csd/call/1; interface=com.nokia.csd.Call.Instance; member=CallStatus Mar 30 09:55:55 uint32 15 Mar 30 09:55:57 uint32 3 Mar 30 09:55:59 uint32 17 Mar 30 09:56:17 I would guess it's the same as the libc definition of uint32 Mar 30 09:56:30 or wherevr it's defined Mar 30 09:56:58 yeah, but what does 15 or 3 or 17 mean Mar 30 09:56:58 ruskie: nonsense, I'm interested in the enum, not in the def of uint type Mar 30 09:57:02 that is the question Mar 30 09:57:15 will it blend Mar 30 09:57:27 ugh... sorry not had enough sleep in the last 3 days to process things Mar 30 09:58:09 I gather from lots of dbus sniffing that the third one == 17 means "busy" Mar 30 09:58:28 shouldn't this be in the api docs? Mar 30 09:58:37 which ones? Mar 30 10:00:13 first one == 15 might mean "cancelled" Mar 30 10:01:19 I really need the enum def for those three, for all the possible values from 0..17(+?) Mar 30 10:02:11 any pointer to API specs or sourcecode welcome Mar 30 10:03:44 trying to find anything relevant Mar 30 10:04:52 http://wiki.maemo.org/Dialer#cui_errors_disconnect_reason_to_string <-- DocScrutinizer maybe this? Mar 30 10:05:01 according to best practice about "asking questions the smart way" I should add I'm only guessing about this dbus signal being the right one to gather info about state of call progress. If anybody can point me to a better way, I'm more than happy Mar 30 10:05:07 DocScrutinizer: http://jacekowski.jacekowski.org/20110329_001.mpeg Mar 30 10:05:24 DocScrutinizer: that kind of sound Mar 30 10:06:06 http://i.imgur.com/0oI6Y.jpg DocScrutinizer god made a beautiful universe Mar 30 10:06:07 ruskie: \o/ mille gracie Mar 30 10:07:03 ruskie: not exactly matching but definitely right direction Mar 30 10:07:11 DocScrutinizer: and voltage is dropping by like 10V when it's making that sound Mar 30 10:07:16 and then it stops Mar 30 10:07:20 for a while Mar 30 10:07:22 and starts again Mar 30 10:07:24 randomly Mar 30 10:07:28 doesn't match? Mar 30 10:07:30 well, used to before explosion Mar 30 10:07:42 or could it be just sending multple signals for each call(irrelevant if it's voip or normal?) Mar 30 10:08:11 meh, "there is no demux plugin for this stream" on my desktop Mar 30 10:08:30 btw what are you working on? Mar 30 10:08:32 it's standard mpg Mar 30 10:08:46 ruskie: detecting busy calls Mar 30 10:09:07 Mind, it works for me via VLC. Mar 30 10:09:38 jacekowski: yeah, my desktop isn't set up for video playback really Mar 30 10:10:20 I always resort to this one :D Mar 30 10:10:28 haha, 1.2 millions dislikes on a youtube video Mar 30 10:10:37 jacekowski: Hm, how come only the left tester drops in voltage? Could the power-factor/wave-form be an issue here? Mar 30 10:10:51 robbiethe1st: that's a phase that had a problem Mar 30 10:10:51 cui_errors_tp_reason_to_disconnect_reason <-- maybe this is what you might actually be looking for? errors_tp_reason? whatever that is... Mar 30 10:10:58 robbiethe1st: and that's a phase where that igbt exploded Mar 30 10:11:02 probably telepathy errors Mar 30 10:11:04 robbiethe1st: and it's on pure resistive load bank Mar 30 10:11:07 was* Mar 30 10:11:09 oh Mar 30 10:11:17 So what's making the noise? Mar 30 10:11:28 probably igbt that exploded Mar 30 10:11:28 to many TBAs on that page :( Mar 30 10:11:35 oh Mar 30 10:11:46 it was working for 20 minutes Mar 30 10:11:49 and then decided to explode Mar 30 10:12:56 hear hear, the beauty of this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0 Mar 30 10:13:34 though it might only be translating this: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/telepathy-glib/telepathy-glib-errors.html stuff to those numbers... Mar 30 10:14:21 jacekowski: IGBT breakdowns, caught by some filter, so it is creating that tone Mar 30 10:14:36 DocScrutinizer: maybe Mar 30 10:14:40 jacekowski: How did you manage to get the cell neighbor info using at commands? (I know you said you couldn't parse it, but it sounds like you got a lot further than I did.) Mar 30 10:14:43 DocScrutinizer: lot of options, but it's exploded now Mar 30 10:14:49 hehe Mar 30 10:15:01 neal: nope, i found code responsible for it in rapuyama Mar 30 10:15:11 ah Mar 30 10:15:52 jacekowski: Do you mean you found code in the firmware? Mar 30 10:16:02 yes Mar 30 10:16:05 yes, that's what he said Mar 30 10:16:30 DocScrutinizer: Sorry, I wasn't sure that rapuyama was the firmware. Mar 30 10:16:35 we only need to figure how to call that code :-D Mar 30 10:16:55 jacekowski: Did you manage to get any output? Mar 30 10:16:56 BB5 rapuyama is our modem chip Mar 30 10:17:11 jacekowski: I think I remember you said you got some output but couldn't parse it Mar 30 10:17:24 nah Mar 30 10:17:33 too bad Mar 30 10:18:05 jacekowski: Have you found a list of commands - or is it more complex than that? Mar 30 10:18:20 there probably is that info available via ISI interface, but not supported by neither libisi nor pnatd or anything else Mar 30 10:18:43 SpeedEvil: ISI is a rather binary interface Mar 30 10:18:47 afaik Mar 30 10:18:47 SpeedEvil: i have no idea where at parser is Mar 30 10:18:53 SpeedEvil: it may not be there at all Mar 30 10:18:55 there's none Mar 30 10:19:05 jacekowski: ah. Mar 30 10:19:06 it could be pnatd doing that all Mar 30 10:19:11 AT parser is in onatd Mar 30 10:19:17 pnatd Mar 30 10:19:21 DocScrutinizer: When you say ISI interface, do you mean the interface you talk to via phonet? Mar 30 10:19:27 yeah Mar 30 10:19:44 at 3:20 this morning (it is now 11:14) someone asked about music playback, I started a playlist and it has played ever since with screen off. phone battery is now about 40% Mar 30 10:19:57 I mean the wies running to modem, that transfer some r/w:addr(:value) Mar 30 10:20:09 is that reasonable for music playback, I dont normally have music on (battery was practically full) Mar 30 10:20:18 DocScrutinizer: oh, ok. Mar 30 10:20:21 lcuk: It'll play >12h through phones Mar 30 10:20:49 AIUI the BB5 has a sort of I2C interface Mar 30 10:21:01 well, **sort of** Mar 30 10:21:02 SpeedEvil, ok so it is reasonably ok to keep going for a while longer? Mar 30 10:21:09 lcuk: yes Mar 30 10:21:11 :) Mar 30 10:22:09 DocScrutinizer: it looks differently in nolo Mar 30 10:22:27 jacekowski: ? Mar 30 10:22:33 it's called SSI Mar 30 10:22:40 yeah Mar 30 10:23:29 and AIUI you write adr:value tuples to it, and read from other adr to get values back Mar 30 10:24:21 or maybe it's more like "IP" messages that have binary "opcode" and a payload Mar 30 10:24:34 anyway no AT interface of any kind Mar 30 10:25:05 and no public spec for opcode to query neighbour cells Mar 30 10:25:28 anyone know why I can connect by ssh on a wifi but not by browser? Mar 30 10:25:50 please elaborate Mar 30 10:26:06 connect from where to where? Mar 30 10:27:04 n900 with a termscreen open can ssh to a remote server by IP and I am on irssi in screen there Mar 30 10:27:27 DocScrutinizer, http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=58128 Mar 30 10:27:37 DocScrutinizer: Have you look at this patch: http://www.mail-archive.com/ofono@ofono.org/msg09180.html ? Mar 30 10:27:37 but my browser will not connectmaybe dns issuesj Mar 30 10:28:02 jpinx: http://209.85.143.104 Mar 30 10:28:05 works, or not? Mar 30 10:28:08 neal: probably yes Mar 30 10:28:12 DocScrutinizer: The opcode for getting the cell neighbor info from an isi modem is published there. Mar 30 10:28:32 it's using some function in libisi we are missing for N900 afaik Mar 30 10:28:41 where do I edit my dns? Mar 30 10:28:44 good morning Maemo :) Mar 30 10:28:45 ooh, so let me take a look Mar 30 10:28:48 DocScrutinizer: oh. Mar 30 10:28:54 nid0: yes Mar 30 10:29:02 jpinx: dtatic IP? Mar 30 10:29:05 jpinx: st Mar 30 10:29:15 jpinx: /etc/resolv.conf Mar 30 10:29:19 dunno Mar 30 10:29:32 jpinx: settings internet or something, select the connection, 'next' a few times, and it's under 'advanced' at the end. Mar 30 10:29:34 add 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220 Mar 30 10:29:41 you can enter DNS IP Mar 30 10:29:47 Do not do what nid0 suggests. Mar 30 10:29:53 It'll get wiped net boot Mar 30 10:30:00 itll test the problem now though Mar 30 10:30:04 True Mar 30 10:30:09 nid0: thanks Mar 30 10:30:12 But doing it through the UI is trivial Mar 30 10:30:46 DocScrutinizer: The first part of that patch set (http://www.mail-archive.com/ofono@ofono.org/msg09176.html) includes the following: NET_NEIGHBOUR_CELLS_REQ = 0x1A, Mar 30 10:31:04 which is then used as an op code in the phonet message Mar 30 10:31:06 looks interesting Mar 30 10:31:12 I thought that that was sent directly to the modem Mar 30 10:31:20 maybe Mar 30 10:31:49 I'm worried about #include Mar 30 10:32:20 SpeedEvil: nothing in options in my browser Mar 30 10:32:27 DocScrutinizer: I think that is just used to wrap phonet Mar 30 10:32:32 but I'm not that brilliant in scanning source in 3 minutes and understand how it works Mar 30 10:32:53 so maybe we got a proper pointer to something there Mar 30 10:33:04 jpinx: its in your internet connections settings Mar 30 10:33:46 does anyone have any simple examples of sending messages using the phonet api? Mar 30 10:33:53 settings > internet connections > select the connection you're using > edit > next > next > next > advanced > ip addresses > untick "auto-retrieve dns" enter 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220 Mar 30 10:34:29 I've tried to reverse engineer ofono, but the use of callbacks makes following the control flow difficult Mar 30 10:34:47 I tryin reflash my n900 but i got this: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pPX7DhAH Mar 30 10:35:20 "I tried to reflash my n900 but all I got was this stupid t-shirt" Mar 30 10:37:46 crashanddie =) Mar 30 10:38:23 ruskie: thanks for tmo link. Seems OP there missed the dbus signal I quoted above Mar 30 10:38:27 Kaardemumma, unplug it... start flasher... plug it... Mar 30 10:38:30 nid0: SpeedEvil did the DNS edit to those nameserers but still not connecting after restart the browser Mar 30 10:38:36 Kaardemumma google about flashing maemo and some modules that popup and ruin it Mar 30 10:39:22 DocScrutinizer, well the second post atleast provides 3 retcodes Mar 30 10:39:29 yep Mar 30 10:39:45 I do wonder where this is documented... Mar 30 10:39:54 * DocScrutinizer too Mar 30 10:39:59 s/where/whether/ Mar 30 10:40:08 hehe Mar 30 10:41:08 jpinx: The browser has to know the internet connection is up. How did you take it up? Mar 30 10:41:47 open the browser before connecting Mar 30 10:42:06 let me disconnect and do that again.... Mar 30 10:42:34 when i try flashing and plyg cabble my pc try install USB rom device or something and then its say "cabble is unplugged" Mar 30 10:43:34 SpeedEvil: the browser is causing the connection to be made Mar 30 10:43:51 jpinx: Ah. Mar 30 10:44:07 jpinx: But you're not getting DNS? Mar 30 10:44:16 nope Mar 30 10:44:25 seems that way Mar 30 10:44:37 Have you tried entering the DNS in the GUI? Mar 30 10:44:48 I get ssh and http by IP number Mar 30 10:45:17 Kaardemumma, stop it doing that or prep flasher(i.e. waiting for device)... and hold u on the n900 while powering it up/plugging it in(iirc)... might work Mar 30 10:45:22 I did the edit by the gui as per instructions from nid0 above Mar 30 10:46:33 ~tell Kaardemumma about flash Mar 30 10:47:25 Kaardemumma: that's correct Mar 30 10:47:29 Kaardemumma: you're doing it wrong Mar 30 10:47:35 DocScrutinizer, hmm tried stringing the dialer to see if it's hidding anything? Mar 30 10:47:35 Kaardemumma: start flasher Mar 30 10:47:38 Kaardemumma: in short: remove battery, start flasher, hold 'u', insert battery while holding 'u' Mar 30 10:47:40 Kaardemumma: switch off phone Mar 30 10:47:43 Kaardemumma: hold u Mar 30 10:47:51 Kaardemumma: plug in the cable Mar 30 10:47:58 when i hold u on the n900 while powering it up/plugging it windows start installing USB ROM DEVICE driver and then its abort installing the driver and flashing wait device Mar 30 10:47:59 Kaardemumma: insert battery Mar 30 10:48:02 SpeedEvil: in etc/resolv.conf the old dns still exists Mar 30 10:48:14 Kaardemumma: that's for cold flashing Mar 30 10:48:17 Kaardemumma: don't worry about that Mar 30 10:48:22 Kaardemumma: and use linux Mar 30 10:48:28 Kaardemumma: windows tends to mess things Mar 30 10:48:44 work on virtual pc? Mar 30 10:48:50 Kaardemumma: do you get a NOKIA screen *with small usb icon*? Mar 30 10:48:56 Yep Mar 30 10:49:12 but icon go away when driver installing abort Mar 30 10:49:24 Kaardemumma: use linux Mar 30 10:49:44 Its working on virtual pc? Mar 30 10:49:58 allegedly it does Mar 30 10:50:39 but honestly booting off a live linux DVD is the best you can do Mar 30 10:50:49 or live usb Mar 30 10:51:07 ruskie: nope, not yet tried string dialer-ui Mar 30 10:52:08 I guess it could also be somewhere in csd(whatever that is)... but I'm guessing that's somewhat closed... Mar 30 10:52:22 yeah Mar 30 10:53:06 dialer should have it if it listens to the raw codes(since it needs to present those to the user(or so I think))... could be that csd actually does the final stuff and sends a notification... Mar 30 10:54:26 there's that yellow hildon notifier saying "number busy" that vanishes after some 3s, and I seem don't see any related dbus traffic causing that, so my suspicion is dialer is talking to *something* directly via some lib.so function calls/callbacks, and you don't get to know about this by dbus-monitor Mar 30 10:55:10 or that notifier is a child of csd, whatever this really is Mar 30 10:55:24 jacekowski: Is there a copy of the firmware on the N900? Mar 30 10:55:34 neal: it's in fiasco image Mar 30 10:55:37 just unpack it Mar 30 10:55:39 with flasher Mar 30 10:55:45 jacekowski: ah. thanks. Mar 30 10:58:41 DocScrutinizer, com.nokia.csd.Call.Error.Network.UserBusy Mar 30 10:58:54 DocScrutinizer, and there's a string "User Busy" sent as well somewhere Mar 30 10:58:58 sounds good, but what is that? Mar 30 10:59:10 busy from dbus-monitor Mar 30 10:59:20 :-o Mar 30 11:00:18 org.freedesktop.Telepathy.Channel.Interface.Group has string "User Busy" Mar 30 11:01:32 and debug-message string "mt-release: reason=BUSY (3) cause=com.nokia.csd.Call.Error.Network.UserBusy (3.17) Mar 30 11:02:13 ruskie: I can't find all that Mar 30 11:02:33 dbus-monitor --monitor | grep -A10 -B10 -i "busy" Mar 30 11:02:36 that's how I got it Mar 30 11:02:39 is this from dbus-monitor? if yes, which bus? Mar 30 11:02:41 tried calling myself through the dialer Mar 30 11:02:50 ran dbus-monitor as user Mar 30 11:02:55 aah, k, will retry Mar 30 11:03:15 oooooh :blush: Mar 30 11:03:20 * DocScrutinizer <- idiot Mar 30 11:03:36 of course monitoring the session dbus of root is BS Mar 30 11:03:59 I would assume using --system might help as well Mar 30 11:04:07 since I would assume this would be on the system bus as well Mar 30 11:04:14 nope, on system bus there's no "busy" Mar 30 11:04:24 fun Mar 30 11:05:05 I basically did same as you did (dbus-mon|grep) but user root :-S Mar 30 11:05:09 hehe Mar 30 11:05:29 also dbus-momitor --system, which gave me no "busy" Mar 30 11:05:44 I tend to always start with the user bus Mar 30 11:05:48 then go from there when I don't find it Mar 30 11:06:29 I did as well (but forgot I logged in as root via ssh) Mar 30 11:06:42 bad practice ;) Mar 30 11:06:48 I always login as user and only su if I need to Mar 30 11:06:51 yeah, probably Mar 30 11:07:05 more or less get upset if I see ppl sshing as root Mar 30 11:07:14 ~spank DocScrutinizer Mar 30 11:07:14 * infobot bends DocScrutinizer over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on DocScrutinizer's pasty white buttocks. Mar 30 11:08:24 ruskie: thanks :-) Mar 30 11:08:29 yw Mar 30 11:08:36 * ruskie likes interesting challanges Mar 30 11:09:48 nevertheless those >>signal sender=:1.20 -> dest=(null destination) serial=9939 path=/com/nokia/csd/call/1; interface=com.nokia.csd.Call.Instance; member=CallStatus uint32 15 uint32 3 uint32 17<< are quite promising as well Mar 30 11:10:12 the 3rd one at 17 clearly seems to indicate "busy" Mar 30 11:10:36 there might be different types of busy in general... Mar 30 11:10:51 "mt-release: reason=BUSY (3) cause=com.nokia.csd.Call.Error.Network.UserBusy (3.17)" <-- i.e. Mar 30 11:11:03 reason BUSY (3) but then you get 3.17 Mar 30 11:11:15 while first one seems to be call progress like "trying" "ringing" "established" "cancelling" "cancelled" Mar 30 11:13:35 I did dbus-monitor --system | grep -A3 member=CallStatus Mar 30 11:15:59 glad you can atleast reverse engineer the thing if nothing else Mar 30 11:16:06 I get 1-0-0 3-0-0 10-3-17 15-3-17 0-3-17 for a call of own number Mar 30 11:16:19 I got that by calling my own number Mar 30 11:16:27 while for a call to a nonvalid number it looks quite different Mar 30 11:17:20 I'd suggest you grab the whole comm from the user bus since that seems to include raw strings as well Mar 30 11:18:46 so let's postulate for 1st uint: 1=request, 3=trying, 10=failed?, 15=disconnecting, 0=idle Mar 30 11:20:03 ruskie: I af course also logged the whole dbus-mon >xxx - that's where I got above values from right now Mar 30 11:21:24 nayway I'd prefer a proper spec to any postulating Mar 30 11:21:39 true Mar 30 11:26:45 Has anyone seen a n900 USB failure that's ripped off the tracks on the motherboard? Mar 30 11:26:47 (not mine) Mar 30 11:28:17 um, no. I guess Nokia Service might have seen several. What exactly is your question? Mar 30 11:29:09 jonwil's work for http://wiki.maemo.org/Dialer is incredible Mar 30 11:29:48 I'm idly wondering about a phone I see on ebay. Mar 30 11:29:57 With a failed USB Mar 30 11:30:18 aaah, wondering if it's fixable Mar 30 11:30:41 no? Mar 30 11:32:10 yeah Mar 30 11:32:14 (not for me) Mar 30 11:32:26 (well - I mean not for me as the end user) Mar 30 11:33:00 'After I received phone back I noticed that keyboard don't work properly(2 lines it very hard to push to get any letters ,but there is few letters with almost don't need to touch -it types itself)...when I told that to company who repaired my phone-they just said-we don't know nothing about it!' Mar 30 11:33:06 Misaligned keyboard mat? Mar 30 11:33:09 you got F5300, J5300, J5301, and arbitrary GND for alternative solder points - omitting ID Mar 30 11:33:18 Hmm. Mar 30 11:33:20 Neat Mar 30 11:33:50 (misaligned) yup Mar 30 11:34:56 for J5300/1 you should use a bifilar choke Z5300 to 'wire' the connector to those testpoints Mar 30 11:35:09 thanks. Mar 30 11:35:15 yw Mar 30 11:35:16 crashanddie, heeey Mar 30 11:35:37 DocScrutinizer: have you actually ordered from ownta? Mar 30 11:35:43 Shipping? Mar 30 11:35:46 yeaj Mar 30 11:35:55 got my bare PCB Mar 30 11:36:06 waiting for those "compatible" speakersa Mar 30 11:38:30 DocScrutinizer: What's shipping like? Mar 30 11:38:33 ~xyawn Mar 30 11:38:33 rumour has it, xyawn is big coffee Mar 30 11:38:41 OOO...K Mar 30 11:38:53 SpeedEvil: takes ages Mar 30 11:39:03 packaging is kinda OK Mar 30 11:39:19 K. Mar 30 11:39:52 hotline is fast as hell, answers in 10 min Mar 30 11:40:46 My n900 is faster now after nokia flashed it! Mar 30 11:41:49 DocScrutinizer: you can use telepathy to see cellular call end reasons, it will be in MembersChanged on the group interface Mar 30 11:48:28 Robot101: thanks. Alas that's a bit like Chinese to me. Is that a dbus-call to telepathy? Mar 30 11:49:10 no that's a signal telepathy emits when the person you're calling leaves the call channel as they're busy Mar 30 11:49:17 I forgot my root password and HAM isnt working... Mar 30 11:49:30 dbus signal? Mar 30 11:49:33 yes Mar 30 11:49:38 k, thanks Mar 30 11:49:55 I think I'll manage to find info about it based on that Mar 30 11:51:05 I hope so at least Mar 30 11:51:14 lolcat: type 'root' in xterm to become root then 'passwd' to change password Mar 30 11:52:22 DocScrutinizer: you could ask in #telepathy - but the spec at telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec has alllllll the stuff, although the tp book might introduce the concepts better - rather than trying to learn the language by reading the dictionary :) Mar 30 11:52:43 -sh: root�: not found Mar 30 11:54:33 I got HAM working Mar 30 11:58:29 Robot101: think I got a hold on it: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/Channel_Interface_Call_State.html#Flags:Channel_Call_State_Flags Mar 30 12:00:53 DocScrutinizer: so these are kind of orthogonal to call termination reasons - they just toggle on and off during a call without a specific state progression guaranteed by telepathy Mar 30 12:01:36 :nod: still searching for the termination codes Mar 30 12:01:47 DocScrutinizer: the members of a call are in the Group interface Mar 30 12:02:03 DocScrutinizer: (the call is represented as a StreamedMedia channel for historical reasons) Mar 30 12:02:03 can't find that Mar 30 12:02:13 Channel.Interface.Group Mar 30 12:02:39 http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/Channel_Interface_Group.html#Signal:MembersChangedDetailed Mar 30 12:02:51 reasons and other metadata are in the dictionary here Mar 30 12:03:18 change-reason will be one of http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/Channel_Interface_Group.html#Enum:Channel_Group_Change_Reason Mar 30 12:03:36 thanks Mar 30 12:09:04 Robot101: I gather this interface is agnostic of transport (SIP/GSM/...) Mar 30 12:09:21 transmission says read only filesystem -.- Mar 30 12:09:43 DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's kind of the point of telepathy :) Mar 30 12:09:50 hehe Mar 30 12:11:44 so I "just" need to figure how to redial an *arbitrary* call, no matter if it's been a GSM or SIP or whatever one Mar 30 12:13:08 (my original plan was to implement automatic redial on busy only for GSM. This starts to become a tad more involved now) Mar 30 12:15:36 dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.csd.Call /com/nokia/csd/call com.nokia.csd.Call.CreateWith string:"$NUMBER" uint32:0 Mar 30 12:15:46 obviously fails on that aim Mar 30 12:16:22 in Telepathy you can start a call with CreateChannel on mission control's channel dispatcher interface Mar 30 12:17:27 :nod: <> Mar 30 12:18:49 DocScrutinizer: given there's an index, you should be able to find these things... :P Mar 30 12:19:10 http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/Channel_Dispatcher.html#Method:CreateChannel though Mar 30 12:19:27 /index.html ^F:mission ->"not found" Mar 30 12:20:13 mhm, should have tried "dispatcher" I guess Mar 30 12:22:58 * DocScrutinizer scratches head and ponders to have a walk first Mar 30 12:29:04 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/nokia_appeals_to_symbian_qt_devs/ <-- hmm Mar 30 12:31:33 SpeedEvil, :) battery still going now, but am going to sleep so will start recharging. Mar 30 12:42:00 lcuk: hehehe Mar 30 12:43:12 lcuk: probably determining actual power consumption via bq27200.sh script is advantageous over actually depleting battery to see how long it lasts Mar 30 12:43:37 DocScrutinizer, for sure, but it has been an interesting datapoint for me. Mar 30 12:43:47 I rarely have music on and just had this on the entire evening Mar 30 12:43:59 it was actually quite relaxing :) Mar 30 12:44:07 :-D Mar 30 12:45:07 MohammadAG, will the OSS media player potentially be about the same battery drain wise? Mar 30 12:45:12 with the screen off and stuff Mar 30 12:45:19 I don't see why there would be much difference Mar 30 12:45:53 * DocScrutinizer wishes wading thru all the telepathy stuff at http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ - to find how to actually establish a call to arbitrary URI like SIP:foobar@acme.org would be similarly relaxing Mar 30 12:46:03 hmm I can get anywhere from 13-16h of music/charge using xmms2 Mar 30 12:46:12 seems there's ome "Telepathy in a nutshell" thing missing Mar 30 12:46:35 http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/doc/book/ Mar 30 12:46:47 aah, many thanks Mar 30 12:52:21 yau, now we're talking :-) http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/doc/book/sect.calls.requesting.html Mar 30 12:56:23 ZogG, yes? Mar 30 13:07:22 hmm, not really - still gives me headaches starting with first parameter to org.freedesktop.Telepathy.ChannelDispatcher.CreateChannel, which according to all the telepathy docs http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/Channel_Dispatcher.html#Method:CreateChannel is "Account-o" Mar 30 13:08:03 no friggin idea how to determine what to provide there Mar 30 13:09:01 seems to me Telepathy.ChannelDispatcher.CreateChannel is NOT any kind of replacement for a dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.csd.Call /com/nokia/csd/call com.nokia.csd.Call.CreateWith string:"$NUMBER" uint32:0 Mar 30 13:09:24 it is, you just need to be aware of the account Mar 30 13:09:33 there's a tp-ring account for the cellular connection Mar 30 13:09:35 I'd call someone and monitor dbus Mar 30 13:09:53 easier than reading docs Mar 30 13:09:55 on maemo it's actually hardcoded, the ring account, I just don't know what it is Mar 30 13:09:57 both good points Mar 30 13:10:27 I guess I'd be able to get the account of the original call that I plan to redial Mar 30 13:10:52 the account is your account Mar 30 13:11:00 ie, the fact you want to place a cellular call Mar 30 13:11:05 and not some SIP account Mar 30 13:11:34 yeah, but the idea been telepathy is agnostic of transport ;-) Mar 30 13:11:51 so I might want to redial SIP calls as well, when far end busy Mar 30 13:12:08 it's the same way to place the call, but that doesn't mean you don't need to know what call you want to place Mar 30 13:12:16 it's not prescient :P Mar 30 13:12:36 I'm aware of that Mar 30 13:13:12 and as mentioned 2 lines above I guess dialer did that for me when user placed the initial call that failed with "busy" Mar 30 13:13:28 so I just re-use that account for that call to that far end Mar 30 13:14:09 assuming I don't want to change transport for redialing Mar 30 13:14:20 right? Mar 30 13:15:37 http://xkcd.com/ - on specifying user interfaces carefully. Mar 30 13:15:51 and I'm hoping for caller-ui to pop up for that redial call as it should and does for CSD calls Mar 30 13:22:28 the concept is: monitor dbus to gather call details (account, TargetID, foo, bar) and "busy" condition;; pop up a requester "auto-redial?" on call failed with 'busy';; if yes-> pop up another modal requester "redialing in nn:nn minutes:seconds [CANCEL]" ;; after timer expired, try redialing, on 'busy' increase timer value by factor *n.n, repeat; on "RINGING" (call progress) holler at user, then quit Mar 30 13:25:05 NB this concept doesn't include any "GUI" (other than requesters) and depends on rtcom-call-ui handling the call Mar 30 13:32:41 needs some management of special cases like e.g inbound calls during a pending redial Mar 30 13:33:11 (probably simply abort the pending redial) Mar 30 13:33:30 (close requester) Mar 30 13:34:26 outbound calls not possible due to modal requester blocking access to dialer-ui Mar 30 13:43:19 * DocScrutinizer wonders if it's a bearable restriction you can't have more than one concurrent pending redial Mar 30 13:43:41 meh Mar 30 13:44:58 it's not a flaw,it's a feature ;-D User might get confused on call established and he doesn't know which of the 9 pending ones Mar 30 13:47:01 also user is not supposed to get involved into any distracting activities (like IRC) while waiting for a redial to succeed :-) Mar 30 13:47:26 comments welcome Mar 30 13:55:16 help please my n900 is on "life support" in a way , it powers on gets to the "save configuration" page i tap on save it appears to complete the boot up then powers off and all i see is a dim NOKIA on the screen....is this a dead device ? Mar 30 13:58:15 ~flashing Mar 30 13:58:15 hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Mar 30 13:58:17 Is your battery too low? Mar 30 13:58:26 Havem you tried reflashing? Mar 30 13:59:42 Wow, I'm not sure how others find SomePlayer usable Mar 30 13:59:53 the UI is just way too confusing :/ Mar 30 14:01:49 MohammadAG: +1 Mar 30 14:01:51 GAN900: it exhibits the same behavior plugged into the wall charger Mar 30 14:02:34 an0therb0x: what's the >>"save configuration" page< somebody answer the question of how reset the battery memory that somebody was asking here ? Mar 30 14:04:12 eh? Mar 30 14:04:19 There is no battery memory. Mar 30 14:04:38 heh Mar 30 14:05:05 I feel like aphasic Mar 30 14:05:20 DocScrutinizer: its the factory startup screen, i am not sure why it even goes to that screen Mar 30 14:05:29 all tose words don't make any sense to me Mar 30 14:05:31 hehe i have almost 12 hours in red status of the battery Mar 30 14:05:38 and the phone don't power off Mar 30 14:05:47 so , something is wrong there Mar 30 14:06:26 E0x: bme goes mad frequently. This doesn't mean a thing really Mar 30 14:06:27 the screen one sees the very first time the device is un-boxed and powered on Mar 30 14:06:42 DocScrutinizer: :S Mar 30 14:06:50 nothing i can do ? Mar 30 14:07:03 an0therb0x: that's when it lost poswer of backup battery (due to broken) when main battery been removed Mar 30 14:08:10 an0therb0x: on a new N900 this mustn't happen unless battery got removed >8 weeks. On a 6 months old N900 it seems to happen on battery removed >10 seconds Mar 30 14:08:39 E0x: try rebooting, with shortly removing main bat Mar 30 14:09:10 should fix bme madness usually - to a somewhat partially sane state Mar 30 14:09:38 Not any that Maemo uses anyway :) Mar 30 14:09:42 E0x: this effect is notorious to happen after bme got stopped for some time Mar 30 14:09:55 an0therb0x: that happens if you swap SIM Mar 30 14:09:57 DocScrutinizer: turn off , remove battery for a few seconds put it back and power on ? Mar 30 14:10:07 SpeedEvil: not afaik Mar 30 14:10:28 SpeedEvil: only due to the fact you have to remove battery to swap sim Mar 30 14:10:58 E0x: yep Mar 30 14:11:23 maybe even a plain reboot (w/o bat removal) should help Mar 30 14:12:48 E0x, original nokia battery? Mar 30 14:13:01 an0therb0x: anyway that "set locale, date, time" screen is usually unrelated to device shut down later on Mar 30 14:13:02 ShadowJK: yes Mar 30 14:14:10 hmm still in red Mar 30 14:14:57 E0x: please: lshal|grep voltage Mar 30 14:15:42 lshal|grep voltage.c even Mar 30 14:15:49 current= 3602 Mar 30 14:16:10 that's a plain clean RED Mar 30 14:16:35 device will shutdown in like 5 min Mar 30 14:16:36 what is the voltage for full charge battery ? Mar 30 14:16:37 DocScrutinizer: ....the device has been having charging issues lately, only usb charging works , nokia has referred me to 3rd party for service .... i was just trying IRC if there was another solution available Mar 30 14:16:41 4200 Mar 30 14:16:44 +/- Mar 30 14:17:00 let start media player and play something to get it discharge Mar 30 14:17:41 an0therb0x: does mass storage mode work? Mar 30 14:17:51 or get a wav file and use lame to convert it Mar 30 14:18:04 playing Easy A movie Mar 30 14:18:05 :P Mar 30 14:18:27 decoding takes less CPU load than encoding Mar 30 14:18:29 * E0x n900 screen look very nice Mar 30 14:18:53 DocScrutinizer: yes mass storage works when the device powers on but now just dim NOKIA on the screen or power cycles Mar 30 14:19:54 an0therb0x: I suspect you got a broken Nokia charger (D+/- short broken). Bootloop might be related to depleted battery Mar 30 14:20:26 you should try charging from PC USB Mar 30 14:20:54 if switched off device enters flashing amber mode, let it sit and charge for some time Mar 30 14:21:37 do NOT try to reflash, unless prior proper charging to 100% battery Mar 30 14:21:46 Does it flash amber when sitting at the date & time display? Mar 30 14:22:14 prolly not, the indicator is off when screen is on Mar 30 14:23:10 I have the secretary who runs in my office, completely whitefaced, saying that she has a lawyer on the phone who is going to sue us. Mar 30 14:23:14 an0therb0x: connect switched off device to PC, watch, report Mar 30 14:23:39 do NOT try to üower it up Mar 30 14:23:43 I ask her to transfer me, and I get this very angry dude who threatens to sue us more often that he can say "I". Mar 30 14:24:07 uhuh :-P Mar 30 14:24:22 He explains that 6 months ago, we were paid X amount (specific up to the penny), but we never delivered any product, the name rings a bell, so I play ball Mar 30 14:24:48 hehe Mar 30 14:25:08 don't forget she might recall who you really are Mar 30 14:25:10 later Mar 30 14:25:26 I start digging through my mail, and I find this email exchange I had with an idiot, he wanted me to send him our core server, I OK'd it with management, and asked him to provide an FTP/SCP address I could send the thingie to Mar 30 14:25:42 The guy insisted I do it by email, I told him that the file was too large, and it would just be easier to FTP it Mar 30 14:26:38 In the end, he said he opened an FTP server, I tried to connect, I couldn't. He forgot to open the firewall, so I give him my IP address, but still can't, because the username is wrong, and then the password, and then I couldn't write into the home directory Mar 30 14:26:39 send 100 mails with tarsplit chunks Mar 30 14:26:55 yada yada yada, in the end I told him to get back to us when he'd have a working system I could drop his files to Mar 30 14:27:33 So did you send him his files now? Mar 30 14:28:08 I explained the situation to the lawyer, he'll handle it now Mar 30 14:28:15 If he wants, I'll even post a DVD or something Mar 30 14:30:23 ~ping Mar 30 14:30:24 ~pong Mar 30 14:31:49 heh , it turn off Mar 30 14:34:55 crashanddie: tar -M -L 100k | mail Mar 30 14:35:23 E0x: toldya Mar 30 14:35:53 uuencode Mar 30 14:36:02 that too of course Mar 30 14:36:11 mail should handle that Mar 30 14:39:00 "dear Mr. XXX. As we found no other way to send this 100MB file to you, according to your request, we decided to split it to chunks and send you per email for your convenience. As already explained to you, we had to send each chunk as a separate mail, due to limitations regarding maximum size of emails. You simply can concatenate, uudecode, and untar the file once the last chunk arrived at your side. Sincerely crashanddie" Mar 30 14:41:53 postscriptum: this mail has 999 follow-ups Mar 30 14:42:41 Print out and mail uuencoded. Mar 30 14:43:16 LOL Mar 30 14:43:29 too expensive Mar 30 14:44:30 SpeedEvil: "we added this button cell to the package, for the "e" in email"? Mar 30 14:47:08 crashanddie: create an ftp account with opie auth for him Mar 30 14:47:37 send 2 passwords as you are a nice guy :-D Mar 30 14:48:36 why not send a video with the data as qr-code... so he can read it with his iphone... Mar 30 14:48:38 once he spent his two tries, you can charge him for sending more passwords ;-P Mar 30 14:48:50 chem|st: nice XD Mar 30 14:49:12 * chem|st read DVD and thought of why not making a movie... Mar 30 14:49:54 or sampling some open-media with aalib fed with the code as lib source... Mar 30 14:50:08 hah, a dvd with a sequence of numbers "0,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,1,0,1" Mar 30 14:50:23 to easy to decode... Mar 30 14:50:30 depends Mar 30 14:50:35 maybe he has to play it backwards Mar 30 14:50:55 yeah big-endian - LOL Mar 30 14:50:56 and at some random interval, you play the anti-piracy clip. Mar 30 14:51:25 Stranger: hi asl? Mar 30 14:51:25 You: 127, both, narnia Mar 30 14:51:25 Your conversational partner has disconnected. Mar 30 14:51:42 wmv with morse code Mar 30 14:51:51 hehehehehe Mar 30 14:52:00 to have a proprietary file... Mar 30 14:52:20 also simple to decode, for somebody with a trace of a clue Mar 30 14:53:03 send a pdf (pdf is so a nasty container format... Mar 30 14:55:28 I like being BOFH... "you got 50MB of free space in your home now - thanks, how big is it now a 100? - still 50 meg! - urgh" Mar 30 14:58:02 crashanddie: core server? Mar 30 14:58:25 Our main product, the one needed to use any of the other ones :P Mar 30 14:59:54 what are you doing? Mar 30 15:00:35 ^^sending 999 emails^^ Mar 30 15:01:09 chem|st: that one with teh 50MB also is really nice Mar 30 15:02:27 DocScrutinizer: I love those stories but I like the real world even more... Mar 30 15:03:40 crashanddie: honestly, you should send him the server chopped up into 1000 pieces, wrapped into 1000 emails Mar 30 15:04:27 "would you mind to remove the viruses (not the plural) from my system - nope - nice - (45min later) done - cool thanks - wtf where is my windows - ehrm you said I should remove the viruses so I removed it..." Mar 30 15:04:46 it's like a slightly longer one-liner shell cmd for you, but a hell for him Mar 30 15:05:21 s/not/note/ Mar 30 15:05:22 chem|st meant: "would you mind to remove the viruses (note the plural) from my system - nope - nice - (45min later) done - cool thanks - wtf where is my windows - ehrm you said I should remove the viruses so I removed it..." Mar 30 15:06:28 which reminds me some friend asked me to remove the virus from her laptop :-/ Mar 30 15:07:13 my girl "wants" me to introduce her to linux/gnu, so does my sis-in-law Mar 30 15:07:29 that is something I like to... Mar 30 15:07:40 you mind will change on that Mar 30 15:07:46 wait and see... Mar 30 15:08:11 ... not Mar 30 15:08:28 lmgtfy.com!!! Mar 30 15:08:39 you don't want to introduce her? Mar 30 15:08:40 introducing users to unix never pays back Mar 30 15:09:21 nope you end up as maintenance-staff Mar 30 15:09:42 except for the ones that ask for an account to test that cute shell they never seen on wincrap Mar 30 15:09:56 ...and get excited on "man man" Mar 30 15:10:19 afternoon chaps Mar 30 15:10:44 lardman: good morning Mar 30 15:11:09 :) Mar 30 15:11:09 moo lardman Mar 30 15:12:46 * chem|st leans back and watches company's accessDB die on floating boxes Mar 30 15:13:07 o.O Mar 30 15:13:10 I <3 it Mar 30 15:13:25 selfmade bug... Mar 30 15:15:28 floating point equations overflow at a currency box Mar 30 15:15:29 btw reboot hildon-desktop , modest , just help a bit about the laging when you have too much days of uptime :( Mar 30 15:15:56 E0x: depends Mar 30 15:15:57 I thought currency was fixed point? Mar 30 15:16:09 chem|st: well in my case just help a bit Mar 30 15:16:13 lardman: that is what I thought too Mar 30 15:16:15 WTF is using floats for currency? Mar 30 15:16:51 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/cell_tracking/ Mar 30 15:16:54 getting errors of currency field overflow after addition of two currency fields... Mar 30 15:17:16 you must be dealing with some rather large numbers there then :) Mar 30 15:17:57 DocScrutinizer: I guess the guy who scripted it uses fp for the equation and puts it back in a currency field... but I am too tired to look at it now... Mar 30 15:18:01 using floats for currencies is a BAD thing as you get unpredictable errors on computations Mar 30 15:18:11 lardman: <20k... Mar 30 15:18:35 DocScrutinizer: tell the freak who set it up in the first place! Mar 30 15:18:54 COBOL is even using display vars for that purpose Mar 30 15:19:59 well, not exactly, but there's othing stopping you from defining 01 cash value 9(14). Mar 30 15:20:15 * DocScrutinizer ooops Mar 30 15:20:23 s/value/picture/ Mar 30 15:20:23 DocScrutinizer meant: well, not exactly, but there's othing stopping you from defining 01 cash picture 9(14). Mar 30 15:20:24 I guess it has some rounders in .$sum where $sum > 8bit Mar 30 15:21:49 you'd probably want to use picture 9(12).99 though Mar 30 15:22:09 even -9(12).99 Mar 30 15:22:50 the weird thing is that this happens since 01.01.2011 Mar 30 15:23:07 haha Mar 30 15:23:08 does that thing use a date string for currency BS? Mar 30 15:23:28 µsoft should have stopped after WinME Mar 30 15:23:38 damn, you *must* have quite some experts there Mar 30 15:24:55 it might be that someone just hit "Yes" when the DB asked "Should I convert myself to Access2007 DB?" on a Access2000 DB... Mar 30 15:25:40 but the actual frontend stayed 2k... Mar 30 15:25:48 hi Mar 30 15:26:19 µsoft products are barely down-/upwards compatible Mar 30 15:26:23 does anyone know a command line to increase and decrease the volume on n900? Mar 30 15:26:34 yes Mar 30 15:26:37 yes Mar 30 15:26:40 no Mar 30 15:26:44 ^^ Mar 30 15:27:13 lol I wish the 'yes' was for me Mar 30 15:27:26 it was Mar 30 15:27:58 oh cool then could you please write it for me? Mar 30 15:28:00 http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Set_volume Mar 30 15:28:35 I already saw this one Mar 30 15:29:17 but in this command you have to specify the volume but waht I want to do is increase let's say by 5 from where you are already Mar 30 15:29:23 *what Mar 30 15:29:56 umm sec Mar 30 15:30:11 well I wonder if there's an equivalent get command Mar 30 15:30:19 then add 5 to that and set it back ;) Mar 30 15:30:32 prolly Mar 30 15:30:41 there is Mar 30 15:30:44 sec Mar 30 15:32:03 I seem to recall there's even a increment/decrement call, but maybe I'm wrong Mar 30 15:32:25 I looked everywhere couldn't find anything Mar 30 15:33:20 dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string:volume Mar 30 15:35:04 dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string:volume| tail -1 | awk '{print $3}' Mar 30 15:35:10 i suck at awk though Mar 30 15:35:41 grrr [ERR]: No introspection data at object '/com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer' Mar 30 15:36:41 heh Mar 30 15:37:18 i suck at nesting long command Mar 30 15:37:23 shouldn't this work? Mar 30 15:37:25 dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:volume uint32:$((`dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string:volume| tail - Mar 30 15:37:28 1 | awk '{print $3}'`+5)) Mar 30 15:37:41 i'm still writing lol Mar 30 15:38:05 what about just calling the fakekey? Mar 30 15:40:24 yeah, works fine here Mar 30 15:40:26 phone-control --volume $((`./test`+5)) Mar 30 15:40:47 i should update that script... Mar 30 15:42:41 eh? Mar 30 15:43:13 for some weird reason it doesn't even set my volume when called by the straight command Mar 30 15:44:03 dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:volume uint32:100? Mar 30 15:44:56 yeah, stays at 79 Mar 30 15:45:21 weird, got a renderer? Mar 30 15:45:30 prolly not Mar 30 15:45:44 start the mediaplayer, play something, exit mediaplayer Mar 30 15:45:47 though the dbus object exists Mar 30 15:47:26 hmm, now it works Mar 30 15:47:43 err nope Mar 30 15:48:01 I get 'Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer was not provided by any .service files Mar 30 15:49:43 HAHAHAAAAA it stops mediaplayer Mar 30 15:51:26 err, what? Mar 30 15:51:29 get_extension_property correctly reports current volume setting Mar 30 15:51:55 setting extension to no value at all causes the current renderer to segfault Mar 30 15:51:59 set_extension_property stops mediaplayer playback in midst the song Mar 30 15:52:17 thus the mediaplayer stops, make sure you're setting a correct 32-bit unsigned int value Mar 30 15:52:44 dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:volume uint32:76 Mar 30 15:52:56 forget the --print-reply Mar 30 15:55:00 incorrect value Mar 30 15:55:08 dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:volume variant:uint32:76 Mar 30 15:55:12 that should work Mar 30 15:55:59 yeah Mar 30 15:56:39 this works Mar 30 15:56:47 DBus is confusing tbh Mar 30 15:56:54 quite Mar 30 15:58:41 * DocScrutinizer wonders how he could miss the variant:, as it's there on http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Set_volume Mar 30 16:00:08 anyway, learnt sth new this way - wondered about the variant bit in get-ext-properties output, but didn't really realize what to do about it Mar 30 16:02:34 When I set the command on the wiki it works perfectly but when I type your command I get this error I'm confused Mar 30 16:02:38 huhu Mar 30 16:03:02 have a problem i can not playing mp3 in the mediaplayer on nokia n900 Mar 30 16:04:25 I think I've shot the entire file system Mar 30 16:04:51 Since then I have indeed the problem and it depends Mar 30 16:05:19 phap: so here it is: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:volume variant:uint32:$((`dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string: Mar 30 16:05:21 volume| tail -1 | awk '{print $3}'`-5)) Mar 30 16:05:30 (as user) Mar 30 16:05:41 can I somehow everything back to factory settings Mar 30 16:06:08 ~flash Mar 30 16:06:08 well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Mar 30 16:07:02 I have flashed is still so Mar 30 16:08:15 dbus-monitor --session | grep -A 10 error Mar 30 16:08:26 in terminal, then try to play a file Mar 30 16:08:34 mom Mar 30 16:08:53 hardly fs corruption Mar 30 16:09:13 when I open the media player is not displayed as title Mar 30 16:09:24 mafw outputs useful error info Mar 30 16:09:31 mediaplayer discards it Mar 30 16:10:29 honestly I can't think how a complete flashing of rootfs and emmc wouldn't fix it though Mar 30 16:10:43 me neither Mar 30 16:11:37 mom takes a little Mar 30 16:11:47 * DocScrutinizer afk Mar 30 16:17:53 I still get this error: 'Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer was not provided by any .service files' ... Mar 30 16:19:49 id Mar 30 16:20:01 what's your user? Mar 30 16:20:26 normal user Mar 30 16:20:36 just open the terminal Mar 30 16:20:48 start some renderer, like MohammadAG sugested (mediaplayer) Mar 30 16:21:24 I evidently got a renderer that's used for ts-clicks Mar 30 16:21:41 wie kann ich das zeichen machen "|" Mar 30 16:21:44 fc Mar 30 16:21:54 blue-sym Mar 30 16:22:06 now it doesn't want to play any song Mar 30 16:22:16 thx Mar 30 16:22:25 you killed the mafw Mar 30 16:22:27 reboot Mar 30 16:23:09 ok I reboot Mar 30 16:23:10 o/ Mar 30 16:23:24 then I open mediaplayer start a song and type the command? Mar 30 16:24:56 ok I upload issue Mar 30 16:25:01 after reboot you probably don't need to start mediaplayer Mar 30 16:25:21 but you should, to test it works again Mar 30 16:25:38 then c&p command as I did to post it here Mar 30 16:25:59 it worked for me so should work for you Mar 30 16:26:07 bye Mar 30 16:26:29 Alleluhia!! It works Mar 30 16:26:41 Thanks a lot MohammadAG and DocScrutinizer ! Mar 30 16:26:48 Now I can go shopping Mar 30 16:27:15 error "com.nokia.mediaplayer" dosen7t exist (the only error) Mar 30 16:33:56 how can I copy everything in the terminal? Mar 30 16:35:11 you mean to log it? Mar 30 16:35:29 Meh. Mar 30 16:35:33 'script' is not there. Mar 30 16:36:46 I have problem solved I may try to nokia n900 not unmount in opensuse Mar 30 16:37:01 http://i017.radikal.ru/1103/71/e500af99aec9.jpg - getting ready for april 1st :) Mar 30 16:37:15 Hi there, what is the simplest way to enable ipv6 on a n900 wout rebuilding a custome kernel ? Mar 30 16:38:41 wazd: what a terrible place for ctrl Mar 30 16:40:14 pressing ctrl+alt+delete will definitely be challenging :) Mar 30 16:43:34 wazd: Needs fingerprints, a scratch, render it against a real surface, not a bad wood texture. And a windows key. Mar 30 16:44:14 wazd: Needs fingerprints, a scratch, render it against a real surface, not a bad wood texture. And a windows key. Mar 30 16:44:32 slonopotamus: haven't thought of that :) Mar 30 16:45:03 Also - if you do it in 'dim' light, with the keyboard backlight on, it may distract from the flat keys. Mar 30 16:46:19 wazd, is this a 3d render? Mar 30 16:46:30 SpeedEvil: I'm not ready for spy photos yet :P Mar 30 16:46:43 ShadowJK: nope, unfortunatelly Mar 30 16:48:15 SpeedEvil: I'm still working on keys, yes, they're kinda too flat Mar 30 16:49:51 <[XeN]> hi, I have a problem regarding qt creater and scratchbox. I described it in a thread but nobody seems to read it. maybe someone from here can help? --> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=973214 Mar 30 16:49:57 Make it a big Windows 7 slashscreen, like, Microsoft totally dominating the screen, and a tiny "by Nokia" in the corner in blue :) Mar 30 16:51:11 <[XeN]> does anyone use qt creater and scratchbox together? Mar 30 16:53:54 ~ping Mar 30 16:53:54 ~pong Mar 30 17:00:12 ShadowJK: http://s59.radikal.ru/i165/1103/91/012b97b2ee5d.jpg :) Mar 30 17:01:21 *droll* Mar 30 17:04:06 It's really fun to make "real-like" concepts than some crazy fantasms with 4GHz 8-core CPUs and stuff Mar 30 17:22:56 lol, PIIX4 :) Mar 30 17:25:27 sup sup Mar 30 17:25:33 who highlighted me? Mar 30 17:26:33 wazd: cool, running VMware, with floppy and cdrom support Mar 30 17:26:52 also 2 ttyS rs232 interfaces Mar 30 17:28:13 ShadowJK: yeah, exactly ;-D Mar 30 17:29:28 DocScrutinizer: absoultely, can't imagine modern smartphone without floppy :) Mar 30 17:30:26 I honestly hope this thing will come with user imprintable keymat, and 3-key rollover for 2 of the 3 in either leftmost or rightmost col Mar 30 17:32:20 hell, make that a proper N-key rollover, spending one diode per key Mar 30 17:32:20 wazd, but the old one Mar 30 17:32:29 NKRO :3 Mar 30 17:33:05 wut? Mar 30 17:33:17 wazd DocScrutinizer and we don't need screen. just old printer printing screen in morse code Mar 30 17:34:02 Each key could be an oled display Mar 30 17:34:11 could, yeah Mar 30 17:34:29 ShadowJK: West Coast Customs style :D Mar 30 17:34:55 ShadowJK: And in each seat we've built in a 56" plasma! Mar 30 17:35:02 I know about full kbd and NK pad working like that. Only 400 bucks or sth like that for the 16key NK Mar 30 17:35:33 DocScrutinizer: actually one of Samsungs or Toshibas has e-ink keys Mar 30 17:35:46 cool shit Mar 30 17:36:04 e-ink prolly way cheaper than oled/LCD Mar 30 17:36:24 HEY!! Mar 30 17:36:51 and ps3 games with kinect Mar 30 17:37:10 isn't e-ink like persistent and you *could* write on it like on a metallized paper? Mar 30 17:37:27 i don't know i think not Mar 30 17:37:28 we actually could do the writing while slider opening Mar 30 17:38:18 DocScrutinizer, it's so yesterday, we should have mindcontroller Mar 30 17:38:31 DocScrutinizer: the real deal is oled large oled screen beneath keys Mar 30 17:38:38 just install a "brush/comb" inside the screen upper half case Mar 30 17:39:16 wazd, sup artman =) Mar 30 17:39:20 wazd: that'S difficult as you hardly find 100% transparent springs that also are conductive Mar 30 17:39:26 ZogG: o/ :) Mar 30 17:40:29 DocScrutinizer, eink is persistent... but not usable as a replacement for speedy refresh rates of oled/lcd Mar 30 17:40:45 and a 6" eink screen should be ~100 eur for a mere mortal... Mar 30 17:40:46 wazd how ya doing? Mar 30 17:40:58 ruskie: who needs speedy refresh rates on their key printing Mar 30 17:41:57 e-ink's problem is backlight Mar 30 17:42:01 not really Mar 30 17:42:03 that's the best bit Mar 30 17:42:04 :) Mar 30 17:42:05 or more like forelight Mar 30 17:42:06 not needed ;) Mar 30 17:42:08 don't see Mar 30 17:42:26 e-ink should be semi-transparent Mar 30 17:42:28 ruskie, but as i know e-ink screens were not even touchscreens at the beggining and than there was a problem with touch ones, cause it was not so bright than it was not so good as e-book. Mar 30 17:42:39 ZogG, even lcd/oleds aren't touchscreens ok... Mar 30 17:42:44 ZogG: pretty fun :) Mar 30 17:43:00 DocScrutinizer, impossible really since it's actually physical objects inside(i.e. spheres) Mar 30 17:43:03 ZogG: we're not talking about screens here Mar 30 17:43:12 DocScrutinizer, ? Mar 30 17:43:15 ruskie, ok Mar 30 17:43:19 ruskie: rrright Mar 30 17:43:41 DocScrutinizer: let's get like 10 years back :) Mar 30 17:43:45 ruskie, there is nothing impossible Mar 30 17:43:51 DocScrutinizer: with transparent e-inks :) Mar 30 17:43:59 * ruskie has been in love with eink since he first heard of it like what pre-kindle days... Mar 30 17:44:01 there is just no technology Mar 30 17:44:18 ruskie, i have sony's prs 650 Mar 30 17:44:18 also eink in colour is rather rare Mar 30 17:44:24 jinke v3 Mar 30 17:44:27 i didn't like the idea of eink at first Mar 30 17:44:29 running openinkpot Mar 30 17:44:37 as i said books should be made of papepr Mar 30 17:44:46 as for touchscreen... I seriously don't need touchscreen to read a book Mar 30 17:44:54 i'm too Mar 30 17:45:16 i just read a lot of good reviews and i bought it not cause of touchscreen Mar 30 17:45:18 http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/e-ink-newspaper-is-semi-transparent <_- DocScrutinizer ahh guess they did manage something... Mar 30 17:45:33 :-D Mar 30 17:45:39 DocScrutinizer, what ya doing? are you building a bomb again? Mar 30 17:45:47 DocScrutinizer, but it says it's a concept Mar 30 17:45:59 really depends on the layer Mar 30 17:46:13 the deeper the layer the more pronounced the contrast Mar 30 17:46:26 ruskie: I have tons of that concepts in my "trash" folder :D Mar 30 17:46:46 hehe Mar 30 17:46:49 why? Mar 30 17:46:56 i have a concept for better world Mar 30 17:47:13 fsckng website assraping my PC, dozens of cookies to reject, and never stops loading shit Mar 30 17:47:20 I'd love to have a physical keyboard with eink screens(sorta like the oled stuff that costs way to much)... Mar 30 17:48:01 and a pull out eink screen on a normal monitor as well Mar 30 17:48:14 so that I could actually read websites without straining my eyes... Mar 30 17:48:43 I'd definitely stop with OLED :) Mar 30 17:48:52 ? Mar 30 17:49:02 for keys backing Mar 30 17:49:09 to each their own Mar 30 17:49:19 I always am in a well lighted area Mar 30 17:49:38 also muscle memory helps not actually needing to see the keys anyway Mar 30 17:50:01 OLED in keys is a fsckg bad idea, as you can't reasonably contact them for the moving keycaps Mar 30 17:50:16 erm? Mar 30 17:50:26 http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/ <_- you did see this right? Mar 30 17:50:55 yes, the costs-more-than-gold one I mentioned before Mar 30 17:51:08 ruskie: how big of a e-ink leyboard? Mar 30 17:51:12 guess *why* it's so expensive Mar 30 17:51:49 ruskie: it has an oled screen in each key - that's completely wrong approach Mar 30 17:51:53 ds3, think a model M but with eink screens... Mar 30 17:52:22 ruskie: what I want is a single lowres oled screen behind the keys Mar 30 17:52:37 so what? transparent keys? Mar 30 17:52:55 ruskie: yep, shaded transparent keys :) Mar 30 17:52:57 and some optical stuff to relay the image up to the top of the screen? Mar 30 17:54:12 ruskie: well, the size of the gap will be really tiny and you can easily align the phone to see all the symbols clearly Mar 30 17:54:24 ahh for the phone Mar 30 17:54:25 ruskie: but what's is the size in inches or cms or whatever units Mar 30 17:54:28 so I guess no need in extra lens magic here Mar 30 17:54:53 ds3, normal keyboard button? like what are the... 1x1cm or something Mar 30 17:55:17 ruskie: I mean the overall keyboard... sounds like you are looking for a standard PC size keyboard with eink? Mar 30 17:55:22 yup Mar 30 17:55:30 ah blah Mar 30 17:55:33 hehe Mar 30 17:55:36 wazd: you can not get a single oled screen behind the keys, for low profile kbd design Mar 30 17:55:39 what did you think I expected? Mar 30 17:55:52 then I won't suggest using a TS enabled e-reader repurposed into a keyboard :D Mar 30 17:56:04 ds3, I actually want physical keys Mar 30 17:56:23 ruskie: that can be done with minor mods Mar 30 17:56:25 TS is a nice toy... but ultimately pointless for trying to get things done Mar 30 17:56:28 problem is the size Mar 30 17:57:03 DocScrutinizer: why so? :) Mar 30 17:57:35 you need some *contacts* which you can't place between the OLED and the keycaps Mar 30 17:58:14 it can be done... someone has done something like that with a regular LCD Mar 30 17:58:34 so your keycaps need bolts to protrude tru holes in the oled layer, to operate contacts springs below Mar 30 17:58:45 no you don't Mar 30 17:58:52 uhuh Mar 30 17:59:05 DocScrutinizer: oled touchscreen? :) Mar 30 17:59:11 a molded sheet of silicone can do the spring action Mar 30 17:59:19 sure you can use a fuckin touchscreen Mar 30 17:59:20 quite a few modern PC keyboards do that Mar 30 17:59:28 but !!MEH!! Mar 30 17:59:45 DocScrutinizer: touchscreen beneath keys I mean :) Mar 30 18:00:28 make ZERO difference. The key movement is 0, and the keyclick also is 0 Mar 30 18:00:47 touchscreen is BS for keyboard usage Mar 30 18:00:59 silicone overlay on top of touch screen gives you the movement Mar 30 18:01:02 DocScrutinizer++ Mar 30 18:01:10 keyclick can be software simulated Mar 30 18:01:25 ds3: UHUH, shall be quite a transparent silicone then Mar 30 18:01:35 err... Mar 30 18:01:41 ds3: BS, not the tactile keyclick Mar 30 18:01:43 https://dev.openwrt.org/browser/trunk/target/linux/omap24xx/patches-2.6.38/900-n810-battery-management.patch?rev=26378 it charges?! Mar 30 18:02:03 DocScrutinizer: a company showed basically that but with a LCD on the bottom at CES this year Mar 30 18:02:13 I don't have the URL anymore Mar 30 18:02:55 ds3: they showed WHAT? a disk-spring tactile feedback on keypress simulated in software? Mar 30 18:03:39 I'd like to see THAT Mar 30 18:04:50 trying to google the URL Mar 30 18:05:28 hi does anyone know how to make application manager to install missing dependencies instead of whining about them not being installed? Mar 30 18:05:34 I need no URL. You should recall how they managed to force-feedback to the keys from software Mar 30 18:06:39 no, this was suppose to be real physical movement Mar 30 18:06:48 especially without opaque objects under the keycaps creating that force Mar 30 18:08:22 there is no software simulating the feeling when you press down a disk spring. Not anyone that's simpler or smaller or more transparent than a real disk spring Mar 30 18:08:54 wait a sec Mar 30 18:09:21 I find those roll up silicone keyboards to be not too far off Mar 30 18:09:27 there's a lot of room for wiring and stuff under the keys Mar 30 18:09:44 so get it - we won't see any keyboard based on a touchscreen like tech, low profile, and transparent, and still with proper tactile feedback Mar 30 18:09:49 http://s55.radikal.ru/i147/1103/08/cc3d8e665965.jpg Mar 30 18:10:51 all the red zomes can be used for wiring and springs Mar 30 18:10:59 zones* Mar 30 18:11:40 oh yeah, amazingly much real estate :-P Mar 30 18:12:13 does anyone know how to make application manager to install missing dependencies instead of whining about them not being installed? Mar 30 18:12:15 just enough to drill holes through your oled layer, and have proper springs beneath Mar 30 18:12:33 application manager does install dependencies Mar 30 18:12:41 assuming theyre available in the repos you have enabled Mar 30 18:12:42 banan_: provide a repo that has them Mar 30 18:13:02 DocScrutinizer: I'm not sure if OLED will work with holes in it :) Mar 30 18:13:12 I'm sure it will Mar 30 18:13:26 http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/razer-switchblade-7-inch-pocket-gaming-concept-blows-our-minds/ Mar 30 18:13:28 that one Mar 30 18:14:07 DocScrutinizer: extras repo has them, i can manually install them and then the app will install, all i want is to make it happen automatically Mar 30 18:14:35 ds3: I'm not exactly interested in even looking at it, as you can't tell me how it works (supposed to work), so I gather it's not to be found there Mar 30 18:14:52 'k Mar 30 18:14:59 banan_: this should happen automatically Mar 30 18:15:59 ds3: see, there IS NO way to simulate the tactile feedback in software, not in a small device Mar 30 18:16:37 the smallest simulation of a disk spring is a disk spring Mar 30 18:16:44 that 7inch thingy looks like it has the same key style as the optimus keyboard Mar 30 18:17:01 eh? Mar 30 18:17:22 ruskie: it does sortof, except the idea is that the entire lower portion is a screen with keys overlaid on top of it, rather than individual keys with a tiny oled embedded on top Mar 30 18:17:24 all I said was physical tactile feed back using silicone like modern keyboards... only audio is via software Mar 30 18:18:45 transparent silicone can't do a fake disk spring for you, it's always dead flesh feeling to press such a key Mar 30 18:19:16 have you taken apart PC keyboards? Mar 30 18:19:22 pff Mar 30 18:19:32 most of them have switched to silicone Mar 30 18:19:43 really? Mar 30 18:19:50 with a mold in black peice (carbon?) that connects contacts Mar 30 18:20:01 like on the nokia phones Mar 30 18:20:04 most of them are crap as well. None of them is small like a smartphone kbd, and for sure none is transparent Mar 30 18:21:13 I find them quite useable but not going to contest "crap" ;) Mar 30 18:21:56 you CAN NOT have a layer of transparent silicone between a touchscreen and a keycap-mat that acts like the keys had proper springs beneath them Mar 30 18:22:44 if only it were for the support of that silicone also is the touchpad Mar 30 18:23:17 but also because you don't want the optics of that thing distorting your LCD/OLED display Mar 30 18:23:43 even if it's 100% transparent, it still acts as a lens-alike thing Mar 30 18:24:18 lens like effects are better then nothing Mar 30 18:24:25 and an the size of e.g. N900 kbd silicone is simply too weak and soft to give and proper spring Mar 30 18:24:34 damn british people Mar 30 18:24:50 so attempting to hldonize this program has made me realize how little i know about gtk Mar 30 18:24:56 there those movies i can't watch them with no subs as of thier accent Mar 30 18:25:12 anyone else want to have a stab? Mar 30 18:25:52 ZogG: do you mean british people, or fail americans trying to impersonate british accents? Mar 30 18:26:11 that sounds like a fun challenge... a N900 sized silicone keyboard Mar 30 18:26:13 british Mar 30 18:26:22 i think he is british Mar 30 18:26:38 who/what film Mar 30 18:27:13 nid0, Brits trying to pull off American accents are generally more irritating. :P Mar 30 18:27:26 Australians are the worst, though (see Avatar). Mar 30 18:28:18 ds3: go ahead, design a silicone kbd that's transparent so you can read the LCD thru it, works by placing it on top of a touchpad, and doesn't feel like you're poking into warm shit. You'll earn a fortune with that Mar 30 18:28:46 nid0 london boulevard Mar 30 18:28:56 can't find him on imdb Mar 30 18:28:58 the actor Mar 30 18:29:07 DocScrutinizer: you want to be able to read through it??? Mar 30 18:29:12 colin farrell? Mar 30 18:29:17 no Mar 30 18:29:21 not the main one Mar 30 18:29:46 nid0, i don't know where he is from but he speaks english and british english understandable Mar 30 18:29:53 ds3: that'S been the whole purpose of the topic (starting with e-ink in kbd so you can change the writing on keycaps) Mar 30 18:30:10 if anyone is interested in helping get this app decent looking on hildon let me know, I'll package up what I have Mar 30 18:30:26 DocScrutinizer: that's different from reading through it. Mar 30 18:30:41 ds3: oh? how that? Mar 30 18:30:44 (the program btw is remmina) Mar 30 18:31:18 it's s modular remote desktop client with plugins for RDP, VNC, NX, ssh and a few others Mar 30 18:31:26 DocScrutinizer: reading through it implies being able to read at whatever resolution of the LCD is whereas keycap changing means being able to read something at a much low resolution centered on the "keycap" Mar 30 18:31:27 * DocScrutinizer bbl Mar 30 18:42:37 http://www.techchee.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Samsung-Zeal-Verizon.jpg <- i'm not sure why we can't just swap e-ink with oled Mar 30 18:43:05 wazd, because eink taske 0 power to display Mar 30 18:43:10 erm takes Mar 30 18:43:34 you can power it down and it'll still display if it isn't reset @powerdown Mar 30 18:44:49 nid0, http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/uo2he32t/screenshot_054.png Mar 30 18:45:10 ruskie: but it has no backlighting, which is rather bad Mar 30 18:45:17 wazd, not really Mar 30 18:45:30 backlight is not required Mar 30 18:45:49 and in generally is bad for the eyes Mar 30 18:47:15 ruskie: and how to type in the dark? Mar 30 18:47:26 erm... why would I need to type in the dark exactly? Mar 30 18:47:30 eink is like a book, that's the point of it Mar 30 18:47:51 * SpeedEvil does most of his typing with the keyboard under the blankets. Mar 30 18:48:08 I don't read in the dark, I don't watch TV in the dark, don't watch any backlit screens in the dark... Mar 30 18:48:29 my eyes tend to not like me if I do that Mar 30 18:49:46 I find properly set backlights not a problem. I read a lot onthe n900. Mar 30 18:49:56 (with brightness set to the hw minimum) Mar 30 18:49:58 I feel sad for your eyes Mar 30 18:50:32 WFM. Mar 30 18:50:55 I find it easier than the kindle in some ways - it's easir to hold, and I don't need to screw around to get the right lighting. Mar 30 18:51:25 I have one 100W lightbulb in my room... and I never direct it at what I'm reading but it's pointed up at the ceiling Mar 30 18:51:35 ruskie so basically there should be no backlight in the keys cause you don't often type in the dark? :) Mar 30 18:51:59 SpeedEvil: what else you do under the blankets Mar 30 18:52:11 backlights on keys are fine as long as it doesn't impact battery life ;) Mar 30 18:52:12 wazd, no... but your: eink sucks because it lacks a backlight is in essence a flawed argument Mar 30 18:52:42 you could get side lighting on top that would give you sufficient light to do so... Mar 30 18:56:02 ruskie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fZhIYBObWU - here's e-ink side lighting Mar 30 18:56:03 also I think you could do backlighting... but you'd need some transparent spheres in the mix to do it... and would basically be able to switch between it all Mar 30 18:56:38 might not be as strong as oled but it should still be visible Mar 30 18:56:42 didn't sony tried side lighting eink in one of their readers? Mar 30 18:57:36 is there a way I can add an application catalog to get openssh on my n900? I'm running the latest OS Mar 30 18:58:40 nvm I found it, it was under the network catalog Mar 30 19:03:00 wazd, hmm that's a fast refresh eink... *drool* Mar 30 19:05:28 don't see the side lighting Mar 30 19:06:45 ruskie: light green Mar 30 19:07:10 ruskie: almost invisible in bright light though Mar 30 19:07:18 http://i032.radikal.ru/1103/f0/8eb5354cf736.jpg <- updated keyboard layout :D Mar 30 19:08:20 well don't really need it in bright light Mar 30 19:36:36 * DocScrutinizer51 ponders eink balls that have a white side that has electroliminescent properties Mar 30 19:38:47 aslo balls that have 'channels' (like nanotubes) to let light pass thru in exactly one orientation come to mind Mar 30 19:39:29 DocScrutinizer51, interesting ideas Mar 30 19:39:43 basically we had all these with LCD already Mar 30 19:40:11 just that LCD isn't persistent Mar 30 19:40:53 and requires power to actually run... Mar 30 19:41:36 is there a way to charge the N900 while it's using USB host mode? Mar 30 19:42:01 nowadays LCD works by polarizing, but I seem to reacll we had colored rods that were 'invisible' when standing in the glass and blue/whatever when parallel to glass Mar 30 19:42:19 ~hostmode-powered Mar 30 19:42:19 it has been said that hostmode-powered is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 Mar 30 19:42:45 Venemo: ^ Mar 30 19:43:18 thx DocScrutinizer51 Mar 30 19:43:27 yw Mar 30 19:43:46 click thanks on that tmo post :-) Mar 30 19:44:28 will do Mar 30 19:44:39 oh, no, I won't Mar 30 19:44:43 seems that I already have. Mar 30 19:47:15 DocScrutinizer51, two more questions. 1) can it work with a powered USB hub? 2) where do I get such a weird Y-cable? Mar 30 19:48:14 speaking of thanks, sometimes I get really frustrated when people you help don't click that button. It's no big deal really, but if you go out of your way to help with a particular problem it kinda gets to you.. Mar 30 19:48:35 DocScrutinizer51, MEMs display characteristic, they actually shimmer like butterfly wings or pearl shell depending upon the orientation Mar 30 19:49:03 I rather say thank you to the person directly not use some "abstract" function Mar 30 19:49:05 so different amounts of current change the angle that each tiny mirror sits at Mar 30 19:50:52 ruskie, the function is quite concrete Mar 30 19:52:05 Venemo: powered hub, sure, but you still need that 'weird Y-cable' that comes with every USB HDD and is easily spotted at ebay et al Mar 30 19:52:36 DocScrutinizer51, right. so I can just use the one that comes with an HDD? Mar 30 19:52:45 yes Mar 30 19:52:49 great :) Mar 30 19:55:53 DocScrutinizer51, will this not short-circuit the hub? Mar 30 19:56:07 no Mar 30 19:56:31 okay :) Mar 30 19:57:32 you can even connect the one plug to thehub's upstream port, and the power-trunk plug to one of the powered hub's downstream ports Mar 30 19:58:21 DocScrutinizer51, my Y-cable has all-male endings. Mar 30 19:58:36 need an adapter Mar 30 19:58:54 possible Mar 30 19:59:03 I think I have one somewhere Mar 30 19:59:30 maybe even 2 adapters Mar 30 20:00:30 what do you mean? Mar 30 20:00:44 is it possible to get gcc to compile natively on the n900? Mar 30 20:00:56 or I have to use scratchbox to cross compile stuff Mar 30 20:01:24 jigrap, it's possible, but not convenient, on the n900 Mar 30 20:01:33 jigrap, you need to enable the SDK repo and install stuff Mar 30 20:01:42 jigrap, BEWARE, they're NOT optified. Mar 30 20:03:37 jigrap, from small light projects it is a fun game to play. Mar 30 20:03:43 means you'll run into trouble by filling your rootfs, unless you take special care Mar 30 20:03:57 level 1-10 involve moving stuff around to make space Mar 30 20:04:15 level 11-50 involve actually building stuff :P Mar 30 20:04:30 :) Mar 30 20:05:58 It's easy. Mar 30 20:06:13 copy / to /home/user/chroot Mar 30 20:06:27 now cd to that, chroot . sh Mar 30 20:06:37 apt-get install gcc Mar 30 20:07:09 that installs gcc in a chroot, so you can't screw up / Mar 30 20:07:12 n900evil, that has the same space and complexity requirements :P Mar 30 20:07:38 does not cause issues on / Mar 30 20:07:40 i would just use scratchbox Mar 30 20:07:46 and should only be done on device with enoug hfree space on /home Mar 30 20:07:46 its easy to setup Mar 30 20:08:01 true Mar 30 20:08:06 i have a scratchbox environment set up on one of my dedicated servers Mar 30 20:08:28 Sazpaimon__, sure thing. Mar 30 20:08:29 so I just ssh into it, backport what I need from sid, and download the deb from my n900 Mar 30 20:08:41 * lcuk ponders actually making optified micro sdk Mar 30 20:09:25 speaking of which, does anyone want to look at my remmina port and make it not suck? Mar 30 20:09:46 it works, but the interface isn't optimized for small resolutions Mar 30 20:09:59 and my attempts and hildonizing it went awry Mar 30 20:10:27 Sazpaimon__, that would require me to have remote desktop server wouldn't it? Mar 30 20:10:41 lcuk, no, you can run remmina with no plugins Mar 30 20:10:50 remmina is just the frontend Mar 30 20:11:00 frontend for what? Mar 30 20:11:14 http://www.ubuntugeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/screenshot1.png Mar 30 20:11:16 that Mar 30 20:11:30 the RDP plugin works fine i believe Mar 30 20:11:44 the actual main interface needs work though Mar 30 20:12:16 Sazpaimon__: it's just a frontend for VNC and RDP and so on, right? Mar 30 20:12:34 BCMM, useful for windows admins I would expect Mar 30 20:12:46 BCCM, RDP, VNC, NX, and XDMCP Mar 30 20:12:55 Sazpaimon__, when you use it to connect, the UI might not yet look right, but is the connection stable and fast? Mar 30 20:12:57 *cough* Mar 30 20:13:05 lcuk, for the most part, yeah Mar 30 20:13:22 * DocScrutinizer announces special grumpy period Mar 30 20:13:24 for some reason it's only showing 8-bit colors, but that might be a setting getting cut off by the UI Mar 30 20:13:25 Sazpaimon__, I use VNC Mar 30 20:13:50 heh my vnc server is also configured to send over 8bit only Mar 30 20:14:01 also, fn keys dont seem to work, might just be an issue with how it picks up keyboard events Mar 30 20:14:01 cheapskates! =) Mar 30 20:14:05 RST38h, :P Mar 30 20:14:28 the frontend also has a fullscreen menu that displays when you move your mouse to the top of the screen Mar 30 20:14:41 n900evil: agreed, just I'd call it /home/user/sandbox Mar 30 20:14:45 Sazpaimon__, that is tricky since we do not have mice Mar 30 20:14:45 i suppose that could be retained by a gesture Mar 30 20:15:13 lcuk, right, but by say, quickly sliding the stylus from the top of the screen it can appear Mar 30 20:15:19 for example, that is Mar 30 20:15:37 Oh, and there's support in the git branch for pulseaudio Mar 30 20:15:43 which means audio redirection over RDP Mar 30 20:15:48 * DocScrutinizer glares at that friggin MX mouse with the crappy switches Mar 30 20:16:04 possibly audio input too if that uses pulseaudio Mar 30 20:16:13 Sazpaimon__, have it respond to voice command Mar 30 20:16:22 * DocScrutinizer ponders to fetch sledgehammer Mar 30 20:16:29 "WILL THIS GODDAMNED RDP BRING UP THE F&£"^"&^"&^"*&£^"&£ MENU" Mar 30 20:16:36 "ding!" menu appears Mar 30 20:16:52 lcuk, audio input is in the RDP plugin itself i believe Mar 30 20:17:00 shame :P Mar 30 20:17:05 since RDP supports outputting remote audio and inputting local audio Mar 30 20:17:28 which means i could, say, talk on skype over RDP Mar 30 20:17:36 eeek a spy Mar 30 20:18:05 also, remmina supports scaling and other junk Mar 30 20:18:09 and zooming support Mar 30 20:18:22 "but how will he read the newspaper, rolled up like this" wondered the spider Mar 30 20:18:26 so it might be a worthwhile port Mar 30 20:18:32 lcuk, any interest? Mar 30 20:19:34 like i said, my attempts at hildonizing the UI failed, I was able to make it work with GTK 2.14 (it's targeted for 2.16), using libsexy, but making the interface look decent is proving difficult for me Mar 30 20:19:58 Sazpaimon__, not personally my VNC configuration works as is, but I am sure there are many people whom it will be useful for Mar 30 20:20:28 Sazpaimon__, making a handheld UI look decent is a very tricky problem for many :) Mar 30 20:20:41 thanks guys Mar 30 20:20:56 lcuk, at this point, just having all the options available would be swell Mar 30 20:20:56 is there a doc online that I can see how to get scratchbox sdk for ubuntu? Mar 30 20:21:09 hi there! :) Mar 30 20:21:19 most of the menus get cut off with no way to scroll them Mar 30 20:21:19 jigrap, maemo.org/development or similar Mar 30 20:21:26 thx Mar 30 20:21:38 jigrap, setting up the Maemo SDK in Ubuntu is one of the strongly tested pathways Mar 30 20:22:01 awesome Mar 30 20:22:38 Sazpaimon__, screenshots of your options dialog as it stands would be useful Mar 30 20:22:55 hold on, then Mar 30 20:23:37 lcuk: ( is a very tricky) see apmefo :-P Mar 30 20:24:23 i've a problem: when i runsome pygtk apps under user some of them has black flat buttons and both black background and foreground color in edit boxes. But when i do "su -" to get root clear environment — all of them working fine (renders all elements in right way). Mar 30 20:24:32 DocScrutinizer, eternal problem Mar 30 20:24:32 anybody knows, hot to fix this? :) Mar 30 20:24:59 Sazpaimon__: create submenues Mar 30 20:25:26 DocScrutinizer, I'm very novce with gtk, and even less so with hildon Mar 30 20:25:51 install opera, see how it's done there Mar 30 20:26:25 I'd consider opera11b the app with best menues ever Mar 30 20:28:15 DocScrutinizer, I know how it's supposed to look, I just dont know enough about the API to do it myself Mar 30 20:33:13 lcuk, http://imgur.com/vJiL3.png Mar 30 20:34:00 Sazpaimon__, go into Network configuration options dialogs Mar 30 20:34:25 and see how maemo system lays out similar complex dialogues :) Mar 30 20:36:48 lcuk: Including non-scrolly bits at the ends, where they gave up. Mar 30 20:36:58 SpeedEvil, :) Mar 30 20:37:14 SpeedEvil, it is indeed one of the most complex dialogs in the whole of maemo Mar 30 20:37:31 lcuk, so you think foregoing the tabbed options menu for a single scrolling menu might be best? Mar 30 20:37:41 or am I not seeing what dialog you're referring to Mar 30 20:37:52 Sazpaimon__, I am not giving you any suggestions for what to do! Mar 30 20:38:38 lcuk, i think you should, I can't really come up with anything nice on my own Mar 30 20:38:41 Settings/Internet Connections/Connections/Edit/next/next/Advanced Mar 30 20:38:48 has a 3 tab layout ;) Mar 30 20:39:15 not bad Mar 30 20:39:26 I just need to know how the API renders something like that Mar 30 20:40:04 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10160 Mar 30 20:40:05 Bug 10160: Connection settings advanced settings do not scroll with drag. Mar 30 20:40:38 SpeedEvil, the entire dialog is not ff Mar 30 20:40:46 yeah Mar 30 20:40:51 but afaik it is difficult Mar 30 20:41:08 at the ux meets code meetup at end of 2009 Mar 30 20:41:13 this was highlighted :) Mar 30 20:42:00 ~uptime Mar 30 20:42:15 ~seen apt Mar 30 20:42:16 apt was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 87d 2h 15m 27s ago, saying: 'Cahnops, please /kick me. My alter ego infobot resurrected'. Mar 30 20:44:42 * DocScrutinizer prefers menus of just one screen size, with possible 4 or 5 levels of submenus on new screens Mar 30 20:45:48 in my book each screen holds up to 10 menu items, minus [back] is 9 Mar 30 20:46:10 makes 9 submenus each with 9 items Mar 30 20:47:08 which in turn could open 81 sub-sub-menus Mar 30 20:47:14 DocScrutinizer, tiled I hope! Mar 30 20:47:18 each with 9 items plus back Mar 30 20:47:23 original liqbase had that design Mar 30 20:47:31 infact had a UI menu functioncall Mar 30 20:47:43 you just specified N parameters and it would make the fingerable dialog Mar 30 21:19:27 ßo/ Turkey plans nuke plants, built by Russians and by Tepco(!) [damn, I thought Tepco bought theirs at GE] - of course at shore and in the most earthquake prone areas they could possibly find. Well, when Chernobyl clowd conaminated large areas in Turkey, their minister stated (honestly): "radioactive tea tastes better!". I called Tepco at Fucku "3 stooges" - I seriously miss the right terms for Turkey Mar 30 21:22:05 MohammadAG: Mar 30 21:22:33 Sup :) Mar 30 21:23:36 from a macro-darwinistic POV I think it's OK. May the radioactivity sterilize them all. Those who survive are civilizations that were smart enough to kick or even kill their leaders when those tried to sell nuke plants to their people Mar 30 21:24:50 kudos to Austria Mar 30 21:31:02 hey! Mar 30 21:31:27 cansomebody help me with my problem? ;) Mar 30 21:32:06 ~ask Mar 30 21:32:07 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Mar 30 21:33:00 DocScrutinizer: i was ask it about hour ago ;) Mar 30 21:33:15 »» i've a problem: when i runsome pygtk apps under user some of them has black flat buttons and both black background and foreground color in edit boxes. But when i do "su -" to get root clear environment — all of them working fine (renders all elements in right way). Mar 30 21:34:07 seems some of your relevant files were installed with wrong permissions Mar 30 21:34:55 check for files that miss read perms for group/other Mar 30 21:36:24 is it any way to check which of them? and, btw, i don't think, that problem is in permissions: when i ran them under sudo — it's the same problem. And problem goes away only with clear root env (after "su -") Mar 30 21:36:48 and, btw, where i should check perms? in /home/user? Mar 30 21:39:39 MohammadAG? Mar 30 21:40:08 if the problem vanishes only on proper root / su -, but not on sudo ginroot / su, then it evidently depends on environment of root, which is ~ and $PATH and envs Mar 30 21:41:17 mva: have you got a screwed-up gtkrc? Mar 30 21:41:32 (or $GTK2_RC_FILES) Mar 30 21:41:51 so, as I still suspect some files are the problem, you should check what's in ~root/* and try set $path of user to that of root temporarily to check Mar 30 21:53:33 BCMM: uhm... I don't touch it, but as i see, it is no such GTK2_RC_FILES variable under user (and it IS under root). But, bad thing: if i set it under user to the same value, as it is under root — it is no effect :( Mar 30 21:54:01 is it a gtk or qt application? Mar 30 21:54:53 pygtk (some C gtk apps working fine) Mar 30 21:55:30 (xchat, for example) Mar 30 21:58:06 btw, yep, long time ago, it was the same problem with qt apps (sync evolution, for example), but it was fixed by maintainers. Mar 30 21:58:41 and I don't know how to fix this thing with gtk ;) Mar 30 22:12:39 btw, DocScrutinizer51, if i set HOME=/root under user — it is still broken looking in this apps, and even if i set HOME=/home/user under root with "su -" — it is still good. So, i doubt, if it is files fault. But, in other hand, i try to reexport root env under user, and it is no effect too :( Mar 30 22:13:53 hmm that's strange Mar 30 22:14:48 you said sudo gainroot doesn't fix. So do sudo gainroot, then bit by bit set env to match that of a proper root env Mar 30 22:15:26 first change $HOME to /root, cd Mar 30 22:15:43 then set $PATH to that of root env Mar 30 22:15:58 check app after each change Mar 30 22:16:12 i need to stop chewing on my stylus Mar 30 22:16:51 continue with env $vars that are related to gtk (dunno exactly what these are, I think there are some, for theme, font, etc) Mar 30 22:20:16 mva: I think BCMM got sth there. You should unset that $GTK2_RC_FILES var under root and see if things break, rather than set it under user and hope it will fix things Mar 30 22:21:55 odds are there's more than one point of failure (e.g. env var not set, and the files pointed at in that var are not readable for user) Mar 30 22:22:58 so you got a really daunting task to fix the user environment. Better see which of the differences between user and root make root fail when setting them to the state found in user Mar 30 22:23:42 huh... it break in oter way: this apps looks ugly (default gtk light gray interface with BIG square buttons) :) Mar 30 22:23:49 *other Mar 30 22:24:21 and, btw, under user too ;) Mar 30 22:24:30 you should consider creating a proper backup, then reflash&restore Mar 30 22:26:34 or, another approach, you could lsof your app under root and under user, and compare which files are open for root but missing/different_path for user Mar 30 22:28:37 btw, can somebody paste /etc/hildon/theme/gtk-2.0/gtkrc? Mar 30 22:28:56 sure Mar 30 22:30:23 umm sorry, 129kB Mar 30 22:30:45 can you upload it to ompldr.org? :) Mar 30 22:31:42 there really needs to be a sharing plugin for that... Mar 30 22:31:51 i wonder how they work Mar 30 22:34:48 mva: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/gtkrc | gtkrc.cache Mar 30 22:35:05 thx Mar 30 22:36:06 finished? Mar 30 22:36:22 yep, thx Mar 30 22:36:57 yw Mar 30 22:43:59 huh... strange thing... if i delete gtkrc from there — it is identical default gtk's BIG-square gray interface both under root and user. but even with your gtkrc under user i see broken black flat interface ;) (and under root i see it normally). very-very-very strange... Mar 30 22:49:19 okay this doesnt make sense Mar 30 22:49:38 the same program builds find on an FREEMANTLE_ARMEL target, but FREEMANTLE_X86 errors out Mar 30 22:49:47 error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'HildonProgram' Mar 30 22:50:06 I Mar 30 22:50:18 I'm including hildon/hildon-program.h, so i dont know why this isn't working Mar 30 23:13:12 hello Mar 30 23:13:12 Hay Pillum leuk dat je wat zegt Mar 30 23:13:19 lol wat? Mar 30 23:19:21 anyone here? Mar 30 23:26:31 ~botsnack Mar 30 23:26:31 :), DocScrutinizer Mar 30 23:26:44 ~+uptime Mar 30 23:26:44 - Uptime for ibot - Mar 30 23:26:45 Now: 32m 17s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux Mar 30 23:26:46 1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 2010 Mar 30 23:26:46 2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 2009 Mar 30 23:26:46 3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug 4 17:38:59 2009 Mar 30 23:27:05 mmh how may I invert/mirror my xserver-display? Mar 30 23:27:38 xrandr? Mar 30 23:27:58 is there xrandr? Mar 30 23:28:09 dunno, thought so Mar 30 23:28:40 umm no Mar 30 23:28:49 at least there is libxrandr2 Mar 30 23:31:41 just remembered having a nice but mirror image when putting the n900 right in front of my speedmeter in car (at night) Mar 30 23:32:16 Put the n900 facing down. Mar 30 23:32:28 And it'll be the right way round. Mar 30 23:32:31 Err. Mar 30 23:32:32 nvm Mar 30 23:32:39 SpeedEvil: hehe Mar 30 23:33:06 the image is mirrored in the plastic shield of the meters... Mar 30 23:33:41 chem|st: there is xrandr, the protocol, but there is not /usr/bin/xrandr Mar 30 23:34:02 sorry, i mean there is an RandR extension Mar 30 23:34:13 also for having it attached to a projector with rearprojection this feature would be nice Mar 30 23:34:19 xrandr would work if you installed it; it works for me when i ssh -x to a machine that has it Mar 30 23:35:04 BCMM: yeah now we need programs to make use of it Mar 30 23:35:22 like mappero or columbus Mar 30 23:35:27 and TVout Mar 30 23:48:44 apt-cache search TVout... Mar 30 23:50:16 ...or xrandr Mar 31 02:14:19 hm. does skype video chat work on n800 or n810? Mar 31 02:14:42 chx: no, they had a stand-alone skype client with no video Mar 31 02:14:51 (they have no H264 encoder) Mar 31 02:14:54 Any other way to do video calls? Mar 31 02:15:18 yes, the built-in XMPP client has jingle video call support Mar 31 02:15:27 however you can only call to people with H263 Mar 31 02:15:36 which is... rare - google video call uses H264 for example Mar 31 02:15:45 I have Linux. Mar 31 02:16:02 That means I should have every possible program in existence, lol Mar 31 02:16:19 it should work with Empathy on the desktop provided you install gstreamer-ffmpeg plugins with h263 enabled Mar 31 02:16:43 it might have bitrotted though, since for a couple of years everyone will have been testing with H264 Mar 31 02:16:57 Hm Mar 31 02:17:08 Then maybe two N810 tablets is the best? Mar 31 02:17:20 the breakage will be on the Empathy end though, we made it nice and reliable in the N800 and N810 OSes Mar 31 02:17:29 that should definitely work, yes Mar 31 02:17:44 but if Empathy is broken then you should be able to ask on #telepathy or #farsight for help fixing it Mar 31 02:18:47 I want to make it easier for my brother to put my 2yrs old nephew on a video call. I am quite a bit far but I truly adore the little guy. Having a webcam is not the best. I was thinking on a tablet that we could hand over to the lil' one. Mar 31 02:19:13 :D Mar 31 02:19:20 I was even thinking, you know, maybe a cheap Android tablet, could even play games, but it seems the price for these things are not yet in the range where you'd hand it to a 2yr old. Mar 31 02:19:40 so I'll warn you, the quality on the N810 video call isn't amazing Mar 31 02:19:58 there's quite a low resolution because of CPU limitation Mar 31 02:20:13 the video accelerator in the OMAP2 didn't have any linux drivers Mar 31 02:20:19 so it's doing encoding and decoding on software :( Mar 31 02:20:20 or, i have not seen an Android tablet made by Panasonic or Lenovo -- if there'd be I would buy in a heartbeat if they'd be similar to their laptops, a 2yr old does not have the strenght to break either Mar 31 02:20:39 i dunno, your run-of-the-mill webcam isnt terribly high res either Mar 31 02:20:53 lenovo build quality is going very bad in my experience, my T410s has a screen defect after 1 month Mar 31 02:21:05 and my last X200s screen died too Mar 31 02:21:34 really? i have a t400s that survied everything and my bro is using T series since the dawn of time. Mar 31 02:21:43 and I just bought a t420 :) Mar 31 02:21:47 so, newer ones suck more...? :/ Mar 31 02:22:14 I have a 2 inch wide vertical stripe of random colours which appeared about a third of the way along my screen Mar 31 02:22:17 it's... really annoying Mar 31 02:22:20 oh THAT one! Mar 31 02:22:37 http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/t410s-vertical-band-in-my-LCD/td-p/245040 is this your problem? Mar 31 02:22:45 it used to come and go, pinching the screen at the bottom used to fix it Mar 31 02:22:53 but now its here to syau Mar 31 02:22:56 *stay Mar 31 02:23:31 http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-76367 Mar 31 02:24:00 Call Lenovo, they know about it Mar 31 02:24:33 and yeah it's that problem Mar 31 02:24:56 it's so well known they have a page about it. Mar 31 02:25:02 I've been travelling the past 2 weeks so never had any time I wanted to send off my computer or wait on-site for a repair Mar 31 02:25:18 I tried to find a place in SF who would do a walk-in warranty repair as I know LCD replacement is easy Mar 31 02:26:00 but, well, their list of places in SF was useless - one of them was gone and a the number rang through to a recruitment agency, the other didn't do lenovo repairs, and the third was just a dead number Mar 31 02:26:05 I gave up Mar 31 02:30:17 somewhat sad Mar 31 02:30:33 still, these kinds of problems alas reach every manufacturer Mar 31 02:31:05 to me this looks like a soldering defect where the ribbon cable reaches the lcd but i might be totally wrong -- it might be a soldering diefect elsewhere :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 31 02:59:58 2011