**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 03 02:59:58 2011
Apr 03 03:00:28 <nox-> lens :)
Apr 03 03:00:34 <nox-> not objective
Apr 03 03:00:50 <ShadowJK> ok
Apr 03 03:00:51 <ShadowJK> :-)
Apr 03 03:15:02 <TiagoTiago> Can someone point me to a tutorial for packaging and posting an wallpaper imageset on the repos please?
Apr 03 03:22:17 <pupnik> Amazing guitar demo recorded by a friend from Napster back in 2002 - Bach Toccata and Fugue -http://www.mediafire.com/?12nc9kt713ww3b7
Apr 03 06:37:40 <climbz> halo maemo
Apr 03 06:46:31 <keithzg> halo climbz
Apr 03 07:21:27 <tr4sk> hi :)
Apr 03 07:22:04 <tr4sk> I have a little question for you people.
Apr 03 07:22:44 <tr4sk> I was using kernel-power. and recently I decided to try nitdroid
Apr 03 07:23:10 <robbiethe1st> Yea?
Apr 03 07:23:31 <tr4sk> but now, the kernel power does'nt seem to boot
Apr 03 07:24:27 <tr4sk> I'm stuck with 2.6.28-omap1
Apr 03 07:24:37 <tr4sk> or nitdroid
Apr 03 07:25:09 <tr4sk> I did'nt find a solution to boot the custom kernel.
Apr 03 07:25:41 <robbiethe1st> Reinstall kernel-power?
Apr 03 07:25:51 <pupnik> hi
Apr 03 07:25:58 <robbiethe1st> "sudo apt-get install --reinstall kernel-power kernel-power-flasher"?
Apr 03 07:26:41 <tr4sk> I already try this.
Apr 03 07:26:48 <tr4sk> hi pupnik
Apr 03 07:27:47 <tr4sk> robbiethe1st: it's look like the multiboot app does'nt have the custom kernel
Apr 03 07:29:35 <robbiethe1st> IIRC, there's a kernel-power-multiboot package or something
Apr 03 07:29:39 <robbiethe1st> it's a special package
Apr 03 07:34:21 <tr4sk> robbiethe1st: thx I found it :)
Apr 03 07:35:53 <auenfx4> weird, still network error with msn pecan
Apr 03 09:24:17 <pupnik> i have to say i'm a pretty good ui guy
Apr 03 09:30:11 <MohammadAG> anyone know of a good lyrics API?
Apr 03 09:38:39 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: same one clementine uses
Apr 03 09:39:25 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: lyrics.wikia.com
Apr 03 09:39:31 <MohammadAG> looks like Qt Creator for some reason
Apr 03 09:40:04 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: lyricstime.com, lyricsreg.com lyricsmania.com metrolyrics.com azlyrics.com elyrics.net
Apr 03 09:40:17 <MohammadAG> do they all have APIs?
Apr 03 09:43:26 <MohammadAG> he API only returns a small portion of the lyrics (about 1/7th of them) <- meh
Apr 03 09:47:45 <jacekowski> well, clementine can pull everything
Apr 03 09:48:31 <MohammadAG> from the first site?
Apr 03 09:49:15 <jacekowski> yes
Apr 03 09:49:25 <jacekowski> just download clementine source code
Apr 03 09:49:27 <jacekowski> it's in qt as well
Apr 03 09:49:46 <jacekowski> so you can just use method pionieered by c.opy & p.aste
Apr 03 10:05:02 <njain> hey guys
Apr 03 10:05:42 <SpeedEvil> There may be girls here too.
Apr 03 10:05:43 <MohammadAG> QTime has a nice timing feature
Apr 03 10:05:47 <MohammadAG> hey njain
Apr 03 10:05:54 <njain> i want to write a script that enables the auto-call-receive in some time
Apr 03 10:06:01 <SpeedEvil> Also horible creatures from the black lagoon.
Apr 03 10:06:06 <njain> if headphones are plugged in
Apr 03 10:06:10 <MohammadAG> MediaPlayer startup took 544 ms
Apr 03 10:06:25 <MohammadAG> yay, UI starts in half a sec
Apr 03 10:06:25 <njain> SpeedEvil: i meant for all...
Apr 03 10:06:39 <MohammadAG> auto-call-receive?
Apr 03 10:06:45 <njain> yeah
Apr 03 10:07:06 <MohammadAG> auto-answer?
Apr 03 10:07:12 <njain> that means if headphones are in, the user has an option to set in time
Apr 03 10:07:35 <njain> after which the incoming call is automatically received
Apr 03 10:07:46 <njain> MohammadAG: yeah
Apr 03 10:07:56 <MohammadAG> I suck at shell scripting
Apr 03 10:08:03 <MohammadAG> but it should be easy
Apr 03 10:08:10 <pupnik> MohammadAG: google, cut, paste :D
Apr 03 10:08:18 <njain> i am unable to figure out how to if headphones are plugged in
Apr 03 10:08:23 <njain> the hal manager
Apr 03 10:08:36 <MohammadAG> look at headphoned I guess
Apr 03 10:08:42 <njain> receives the signal deviceadded
Apr 03 10:08:58 <njain> i wrote a two line python code
Apr 03 10:09:01 <SpeedEvil> njain: Can you in fact cause it to answer a call?
Apr 03 10:09:02 <njain> using dbus
Apr 03 10:09:09 <njain> yeah
Apr 03 10:09:16 <njain> thats easy
Apr 03 10:09:51 <MohammadAG> signal sender=:1.10 -> dest=(null destination) serial=5079 path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_soc_audio_logicaldev_input; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition
Apr 03 10:09:52 <MohammadAG>    string "ButtonPressed"
Apr 03 10:09:52 <MohammadAG>    string "jack_insert"
Apr 03 10:10:01 <njain> it means a call is answered, and you don't have to pick out phone from your pocket
Apr 03 10:10:13 <njain> hmm
Apr 03 10:10:18 <njain> i found this
Apr 03 10:10:23 <njain> too
Apr 03 10:10:40 <njain> but null destination object could not be made..
Apr 03 10:10:59 <MohammadAG> not sure about Python, but I can easily listen to that with QtDBus
Apr 03 10:11:02 <SpeedEvil> njain: I vaguely recall that the button on the headset does this already.
Apr 03 10:11:29 <njain> with my headphones it doesn't
Apr 03 10:11:48 <njain> anyways i wanna try it out..
Apr 03 10:11:49 <SpeedEvil> The stock headset?
Apr 03 10:12:47 <MohammadAG> QDBusConnection::systemBus().connect("", "/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_soc_audio_logicaldev_input", "org.freedesktop.Hal.Device", "Condition", QObject, SLOT(someSlot()))
Apr 03 10:12:53 <MohammadAG> is that it would look like with Qt
Apr 03 10:14:26 <MohammadAG> btw, signal sender=:1.10 -> dest=(null destination) serial=5160 path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_headphone; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition
Apr 03 10:14:26 <MohammadAG>    string "ButtonPressed"
Apr 03 10:14:27 <MohammadAG>    string "connection"
Apr 03 10:14:33 <MohammadAG> listening to that would be better I guess
Apr 03 10:14:57 <MohammadAG> only problem is that the same signal is sent on connect and disconnect
Apr 03 10:18:08 <DocScrutinizer> the button on all standard one-button headsets compliant with http://members.omtp.org/Lists/ReqPublications/Attachments/36/OMTP_Local_Connectivity_Wired_Analogue_Audio_v1_0.pdf shall answer calls when pressed
Apr 03 10:19:02 <DocScrutinizer> also end call when pressed a second time
Apr 03 10:19:24 <MohammadAG> does the stock headset follow that?
Apr 03 10:19:28 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Apr 03 10:19:29 <MohammadAG> (the spec)
Apr 03 10:19:58 <MohammadAG> so qwerty12's headset-control should work on all headsets with one button?
Apr 03 10:20:01 <DocScrutinizer> Nokia explicitly stated that their devices all follow this spec
Apr 03 10:20:24 <DocScrutinizer> that's where I found it
Apr 03 10:21:27 <DocScrutinizer> seems Nokia is a member of OMTP and contributed or even initiated that spec
Apr 03 10:24:39 <alterego> Ah, sunday morning tmo trolling
Apr 03 10:24:40 <DocScrutinizer> it's still largely unclear how those multi-button multimedia headsets work, but definitely they seem to be incompatible for the button operation, at least to the way the N900 driver reads out that signal. N95 has a similar hardware to handle headsets and obviously can handle multibutton
Apr 03 10:26:16 <timeless_w7ip> doc: depending on whose headset you're talking about
Apr 03 10:26:21 <timeless_w7ip> they use a proprietary protocol
Apr 03 10:26:30 <timeless_w7ip> which required significant effort toimplement
Apr 03 10:26:35 <timeless_w7ip> s/toi/to i/
Apr 03 10:26:35 <infobot> timeless_w7ip meant: which required significant effort to implement
Apr 03 10:26:50 <timeless_w7ip> .. spread across multiple software stack levels
Apr 03 10:27:01 <delphi> DocScrutinizer so they aren't supported on driver level?
Apr 03 10:27:06 <MohammadAG> alterego, you still read that site?
Apr 03 10:27:30 <DocScrutinizer> according to the source appearing somewhere on web Nokia has another linux device that will use a dedicated MCU ASIC to communicate to the MM-headsets
Apr 03 10:27:43 <DocScrutinizer> delphi: seems so
Apr 03 10:28:04 <DocScrutinizer> this source suggests the protocol is rather complex
Apr 03 10:28:19 <timeless_w7ip> further, it wasn't a requirement and the hardware that was shipped was selected because it wasn't unsupported
Apr 03 10:28:29 <timeless_w7ip> (we're practical, not always stupid)
Apr 03 10:28:34 <DocScrutinizer> and probably any kind of serial, and also probably via mic similar to one-button
Apr 03 10:28:56 <timeless_w7ip> obviously we have hardware which didn't work withour device, and obviously it was available in volume since it shipped w/ other devices
Apr 03 10:30:36 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_w7ip: you lost me on your last 3 posts
Apr 03 10:30:55 <DocScrutinizer> last 2.5 to be precise
Apr 03 10:32:00 <timeless_w7ip> simply put
Apr 03 10:32:07 <timeless_w7ip> there's a reason we shipped the headset we did
Apr 03 10:32:11 <timeless_w7ip> instead of a more complicated one
Apr 03 10:32:18 <timeless_w7ip> we definitely had more complicated headsets availalbe
Apr 03 10:32:22 <DocScrutinizer> sure, but that's never been a topic
Apr 03 10:32:27 <timeless_w7ip> s/lbe/ble/
Apr 03 10:32:27 <infobot> timeless_w7ip meant: we definitely had more complicated headsets available
Apr 03 10:32:50 <timeless_w7ip> and the reason is that it wasn't practical to implement the necessary bits for the n900
Apr 03 10:33:05 <robbiethe1st> Oh; that makes sense - So, they just used a simpler headset
Apr 03 10:33:17 <robbiethe1st> Hm... the hardware
Apr 03 10:33:25 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, ok. np. The topic (my topic) is slightly different though
Apr 03 10:33:25 <timeless_w7ip> yeah, we used something that worked
Apr 03 10:33:29 <robbiethe1st> It'd do a better headset with proper driver, right?
Apr 03 10:33:33 <timeless_w7ip> instead of shipping something that wouldn't work
Apr 03 10:33:51 <timeless_w7ip> robbie: the proper driver being split across 3 or more layers
Apr 03 10:33:55 <timeless_w7ip> iirc including kernel
Apr 03 10:34:06 <timeless_w7ip> "it'd do better with better software, it's only software"
Apr 03 10:34:19 <robbiethe1st> Alright. But it's still a software problem, not hardware.
Apr 03 10:34:24 <DocScrutinizer> it's not any question the shipped headset is both crap and standard compliant, as are all phones since ~4 years
Apr 03 10:34:25 <timeless_w7ip> well
Apr 03 10:34:46 <MohammadAG> Retrieving information on the new media files.
Apr 03 10:34:47 <MohammadAG> Estimated time remaining: %s
Apr 03 10:34:57 <MohammadAG> how do I pass an int to that strings?
Apr 03 10:34:59 <timeless_w7ip> my understanding is that doing it in software is hard and that it /might/ be possible to make it easier for the software if there was fancier hardware
Apr 03 10:35:00 <MohammadAG> string*
Apr 03 10:35:13 <timeless_w7ip> mohammadag: by first converting the int to a string
Apr 03 10:35:24 <MohammadAG> that's easy, then?
Apr 03 10:35:27 <DocScrutinizer> it's just the point I dunno what exactly the PHY layer specs are for the MM-headsets, but I'm sure N900 could do as N900 has same hw as N95
Apr 03 10:35:31 <robbiethe1st> Ah
Apr 03 10:35:41 <MohammadAG> printf? or is there some other Qt equivalent
Apr 03 10:35:50 <timeless_w7ip> mohammadag: there should be a Qt thing for it
Apr 03 10:36:01 <timeless_w7ip> look for Number.ToString or String.FromNumber or ...
Apr 03 10:36:10 <DocScrutinizer> and of course bitbanging a serial 1 wire protocol in sw is tricky
Apr 03 10:36:22 <MohammadAG> QString::fromNumber(), I mean is there something to pass that string to the translatable one
Apr 03 10:36:32 <timeless_w7ip> usre
Apr 03 10:36:35 <timeless_w7ip> s/usre/sure/
Apr 03 10:36:37 <infobot> timeless_w7ip meant: sure
Apr 03 10:36:51 <DocScrutinizer> we been there, done that, for HDQ protocol of gta02 battery bq27000
Apr 03 10:37:14 <timeless_w7ip> oddly i've actually even used it
Apr 03 10:37:22 * timeless_w7ip did Qt work for VirtualBox not too long ago
Apr 03 10:38:31 <DocScrutinizer> I gather that's why Nokia EE got requirement specs for a MCU ASIC to handle that protocol on N9AA
Apr 03 10:40:15 <DocScrutinizer> anyway implementing such shit in sw, as kernel driver, is exactly my domain of expertise
Apr 03 10:40:45 <DocScrutinizer> and I regularly piss of sw devels with layering violations
Apr 03 10:41:03 <DocScrutinizer> but in the end it always works
Apr 03 10:43:11 <DocScrutinizer> I would have started with specifying the sw arch long ago, if somebody would've paid me for a MM-headset and a N95 plus a week's worth rent for a scope
Apr 03 10:43:44 <DocScrutinizer> or - even better - Nokia would've disclosed this protocol specs
Apr 03 10:45:52 <DocScrutinizer> I'd not even be surprised if the basic timing and protocol actually would be like HDQ
Apr 03 10:45:56 <timeless_w7ip> i'm pretty sure i could get you the headset
Apr 03 10:46:05 <timeless_w7ip> but the n95 seems a bit harder to manage
Apr 03 10:46:37 <jacekowski> what are we talking about?
Apr 03 10:46:43 <jacekowski> fancy headsets?
Apr 03 10:46:51 <DocScrutinizer> the headset might suffice when I sacrifice it inder my microscope and screwdrivers
Apr 03 10:47:02 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: multibutton headsets
Apr 03 10:47:19 <timeless_w7ip> doc: which country are you in?
Apr 03 10:47:23 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: multibutton headsetsd
Apr 03 10:47:23 <jacekowski> i have 3 buttons on my headset
Apr 03 10:47:26 <DocScrutinizer> D
Apr 03 10:47:34 <jacekowski> never tried them
Apr 03 10:47:48 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: you got a scope?
Apr 03 10:47:55 <jacekowski> 3
Apr 03 10:47:59 <DocScrutinizer> storage?
Apr 03 10:48:07 <jacekowski> and analogue
Apr 03 10:48:13 <DocScrutinizer> cool,
Apr 03 10:48:33 <DocScrutinizer> N95 / any other Nokia capable of working with MB-hs?
Apr 03 10:49:04 <MohammadAG> all new Nokias have it btw
Apr 03 10:49:06 <DocScrutinizer> maybe even borrow?
Apr 03 10:49:11 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Apr 03 10:49:16 <DocScrutinizer> I gues they do
Apr 03 10:49:32 <jacekowski> N95
Apr 03 10:49:46 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_w7ip: I could use the headset when trying to implement the protocol on N900
Apr 03 10:49:58 <jacekowski> but then i have no way of connecting it all together
Apr 03 10:50:05 <timeless_w7ip> doc: what country are you in?
Apr 03 10:50:10 <jacekowski> timeless_w7ip: germany
Apr 03 10:50:15 <timeless_w7ip> (this affects shipping and point of origin costs)
Apr 03 10:50:23 <jacekowski> i would have to get 4 pin plug and 4 pin socket
Apr 03 10:50:27 * timeless_w7ip ponders
Apr 03 10:50:28 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: could you wiretap the mic and L|R on 2 chan and record what'S going on when pressing a button?
Apr 03 10:50:42 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_w7ip: D
Apr 03 10:50:43 <timeless_w7ip> i think we could probably arrange for one to be sent from germany to an address in german
Apr 03 10:50:48 <timeless_w7ip> Denmark?
Apr 03 10:50:56 <MohammadAG> DE I guess
Apr 03 10:50:59 <DocScrutinizer> Deutschlant
Apr 03 10:51:11 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: t?
Apr 03 10:51:11 <DocScrutinizer> .de
Apr 03 10:51:13 <MohammadAG> fancy word for Germany?
Apr 03 10:51:14 <MohammadAG> :P
Apr 03 10:51:15 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: not d?
Apr 03 10:51:21 <timeless_w7ip> when people ask me where i'm from, i don't say 'u' = 'uae'
Apr 03 10:51:24 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: well, have you got an idea how to connect scope to that headset
Apr 03 10:51:35 <DocScrutinizer> adapter
Apr 03 10:51:45 <jacekowski> i don't have one
Apr 03 10:51:52 <DocScrutinizer> 3.5/4 male<->female
Apr 03 10:52:04 <DocScrutinizer> I'll happily solder ne and send to you
Apr 03 10:52:13 <jacekowski> i can solder one myself
Apr 03 10:52:20 <jacekowski> it's just matter of getting parts
Apr 03 10:52:33 <jacekowski> and i don't think 4 pin plugs/sockets are readily avaliable
Apr 03 10:52:44 <DocScrutinizer> insert 2R resistors in each wire, so you also can probe current
Apr 03 10:53:07 <DocScrutinizer> and distinguish pull-to-gnd by hs from by device
Apr 03 10:53:25 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: they are, no problem
Apr 03 10:53:54 <jacekowski> link
Apr 03 10:53:59 <DocScrutinizer> even Conrad has them
Apr 03 10:54:00 <MohammadAG> I wonder if the N97 mini and the N95 headsets differ
Apr 03 10:54:03 <DocScrutinizer> mompls
Apr 03 10:54:45 <MohammadAG> the N95 has a two part headset, one of them is the headphones (normal 3.5mm plug), the other is the buttons
Apr 03 10:54:58 <trx> i have one that came with my 5800, the cable can easily be disconected from the board
Apr 03 10:55:03 <trx> so no need for adapters
Apr 03 10:55:07 <jacekowski> farnell has some
Apr 03 10:55:14 <MohammadAG> the N97 mini's headset is like the N900's, but with 3 buttons (or 5) instead of one
Apr 03 10:55:43 <MohammadAG> http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/107973_music1.jpg
Apr 03 10:55:51 <MohammadAG> all new Nokias have that instead of the N95's
Apr 03 10:56:04 * MohammadAG checks the N8 packagge
Apr 03 10:56:07 <MohammadAG> -g
Apr 03 10:56:57 <kwtm> Hi. Looking for text-based browser for N900.  I see we have lynx.  Do we also have elinks? (I see it's available for Diablo but I didn't find it for Fremantle.)  Do we also have links2?
Apr 03 10:57:00 <timeless_w7ip> n8 has call, volume +/-, next, play-pause, previous
Apr 03 10:57:02 <jacekowski> ohm
Apr 03 10:57:06 <jacekowski> maplin has them
Apr 03 10:57:21 <timeless_w7ip> i'd call that 6 buttons
Apr 03 10:57:27 <timeless_w7ip> but counting the +/- may be hard
Apr 03 10:57:41 <jacekowski> i'll be back later
Apr 03 10:57:43 <jacekowski> going to maplin
Apr 03 10:59:27 <MohammadAG> <timeless_w7ip> i'd call that 6 buttons
Apr 03 10:59:32 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/730223/ female
Apr 03 10:59:34 <MohammadAG> play/pause are the same button
Apr 03 11:00:32 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/730208/ male
Apr 03 11:00:45 <DocScrutinizer> nicely goldplated
Apr 03 11:01:48 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: ^^^
Apr 03 11:03:52 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: make that 10R, not 2R
Apr 03 11:05:02 <DocScrutinizer> 3 of them: mic, L, R. Six testpoints, 3 "before" the Rs, 3 at headset side "after" the Rs
Apr 03 11:05:30 <DocScrutinizer> duh, plus GND of course =7
Apr 03 11:07:11 <trx> 5800XM one has Prev, Next, Stop, Play/Pause, Vol+, Vol-, Answer and the lock switch
Apr 03 11:08:51 <DocScrutinizer> doesn't matter. 2 and 55 buttons all will be handled and signalled same way, serial over analog, probably via mic pin (maybe with clock on L/R - but I seriously doubt that)
Apr 03 11:09:27 <trx> i could get an access to a scope
Apr 03 11:09:33 <trx> the thing is, i never used one
Apr 03 11:09:58 <DocScrutinizer> either they "morse" the data by "ultrafast pressing" of the one-button short-to-gnd thing
Apr 03 11:10:10 <DocScrutinizer> trx: then it's useless
Apr 03 11:10:19 <jacekowski> hmm
Apr 03 11:10:26 <jacekowski> if i have volume + answer buton
Apr 03 11:10:28 <jacekowski> will that do?
Apr 03 11:10:40 <DocScrutinizer> or they use some kind of "carrier" to transmit the serial data
Apr 03 11:10:57 <jacekowski> or that doesn't have enough buttons?
Apr 03 11:11:06 <jacekowski> and hmm, that's a pain
Apr 03 11:11:10 <DocScrutinizer> if it doesn't work with N900 but does with N95 then it will be sufficient
Apr 03 11:11:48 <jacekowski> i either have 2 channel with nice interface to pc or 4 channels with slow rs232 interface to pc ( and i don't have correct cable with me anyways )
Apr 03 11:12:05 <jacekowski> but well
Apr 03 11:12:07 <DocScrutinizer> we prolly don't need >2 chan
Apr 03 11:12:12 <jacekowski> first i have to get plugs
Apr 03 11:12:34 <MohammadAG> I thought you went to maplin
Apr 03 11:12:43 <jacekowski> not yet
Apr 03 11:12:43 <DocScrutinizer> I'm rather sure mic wire is all we need to probe
Apr 03 11:13:24 <DocScrutinizer> see my comment above, I guess it's some flavour of HDQ protocol
Apr 03 11:13:46 <trx> can't we just "listen" to the crap coming into the n900?
Apr 03 11:13:53 <jacekowski> trx: how?
Apr 03 11:13:54 <DocScrutinizer> you can read about HDQ in bq27000 datasheet
Apr 03 11:14:02 <jacekowski> trx: with a scope
Apr 03 11:14:10 <jacekowski> trx: how to connect scope?
Apr 03 11:14:10 <DocScrutinizer> trx: I tried that, to no success
Apr 03 11:14:16 <jacekowski> trx: you need plugs and stuff
Apr 03 11:14:26 <trx> you open the headset
Apr 03 11:14:37 <jacekowski> then you break it
Apr 03 11:14:37 <trx> and disconnect the wires you need
Apr 03 11:14:44 <jacekowski> and i don't want to break my only headset
Apr 03 11:14:53 <trx> anyways
Apr 03 11:14:56 <trx> i didnt mean that
Apr 03 11:14:57 <DocScrutinizer> trx: when you disconnect wires, then nothing will work
Apr 03 11:15:22 <trx> i mean connect the scope directly
Apr 03 11:15:25 <DocScrutinizer> you need to probe a working set
Apr 03 11:15:36 <jacekowski> hmm, simplest way to check if headset is working is calling my phone and pressing button
Apr 03 11:15:44 <DocScrutinizer> we'll use an extension cable for that
Apr 03 11:16:48 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: pressing vol+/- while listening to music, and see if you can level down at hs and level back up at phone - makes sure the vol+/- is transmitted to phone
Apr 03 11:17:06 <trx> you tried connecting the headset to the n900 and listening if anything "comes up"?
Apr 03 11:17:13 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Apr 03 11:17:21 <trx> how are we to listen when we figure out the signals?
Apr 03 11:17:24 <DocScrutinizer> recorded from headset
Apr 03 11:18:12 <jacekowski> yeah
Apr 03 11:18:16 <jacekowski> nothing happens
Apr 03 11:18:21 <DocScrutinizer> also probed headset with R-meter and found it does nuttin while pressing keys
Apr 03 11:18:22 <trx> what i mean is, we would need a driver anyway
Apr 03 11:18:41 <DocScrutinizer> that's what we are about to investigate
Apr 03 11:18:50 <trx> yeah
Apr 03 11:20:11 <MohammadAG> then after a driver you need to "wire" the policy crap correctly
Apr 03 11:20:22 <DocScrutinizer> hypothesis: headset needs power, so micbias will be on. micbias delivered from N95 will be within specs for 'normal' hs, i.e. 2..3V@2kR
Apr 03 11:20:32 <MohammadAG> actually, no, it detects it has a headset
Apr 03 11:20:44 <MohammadAG> as*
Apr 03 11:20:45 <timeless_w7ip> mohammad: yes, play-pause is one, but vol+ and vol- are two, and call is a button.... i don't see how you can have trouble w/ my math
Apr 03 11:20:53 <DocScrutinizer> N95 won't poll, that means first pulse comes from headset when pressing button
Apr 03 11:21:25 <jacekowski> well i suppose power is same in both cases
Apr 03 11:21:31 <jacekowski> it's just signaling that's different
Apr 03 11:21:39 <jacekowski> otherwise they would risk blowing up something
Apr 03 11:21:54 <DocScrutinizer> vague hypothesis: N95 will ACK this first pulse, then start applying clock to read out further data
Apr 03 11:22:17 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: exactly
Apr 03 11:22:37 * timeless_w7ip loves it when people don't believe/listen
Apr 03 11:22:43 <DocScrutinizer> that's been part2 of my first hypothesis post above
Apr 03 11:22:59 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_w7ip: ?
Apr 03 11:23:14 <kwtm> Is there a way to read winmail.dat (TNEF-format) attachments sent by Microsoft Outlook?
Apr 03 11:23:28 <timeless_w7ip> kwtn: google?
Apr 03 11:23:41 <jacekowski> kwtm: yes
Apr 03 11:23:54 <jacekowski> kwtm: there are programs that can extract tnef
Apr 03 11:24:03 <kwtm> jacekowski: Great!  There is hope!  Which maemo package keyword should I look for?
Apr 03 11:24:07 <DocScrutinizer> tinneff?
Apr 03 11:24:18 <jacekowski> kwtm: don't remember
Apr 03 11:24:53 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Yeah, the wife uses Blackberry with her company mSEXchange server, and doesn't understand why I can't see the 20 PDF's embedded inside the giant winmail.dat file. :(
Apr 03 11:25:20 <DocScrutinizer> mpffff
Apr 03 11:26:03 <kwtm> jacekowski: As far as you remember, is this a stand-alone cmd-line thing to extract from a saved winmail.dat, or is it something that integrates into the built-in email reader?
Apr 03 11:26:04 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, NFC
Apr 03 11:28:33 <jacekowski> kwtm: standalone commandline thing
Apr 03 11:28:34 * DocScrutinizer wonders if it wasn't saner to teach that crackberry/sexch crap to use IETF RFC formats rather than try to cope with proprietary tinnef
Apr 03 11:30:49 <DocScrutinizer> next step: teach modest to read account details out of a copied M$ registry binary file
Apr 03 11:31:03 * DocScrutinizer shudders
Apr 03 11:32:55 <MohammadAG> hmm
Apr 03 11:33:14 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I'm trying to see if my MicroSD is really fried
Apr 03 11:33:24 <MohammadAG> [11498.794831] mmc0: error -110 whilst initialising SD card <-- on PC
Apr 03 11:33:31 <DocScrutinizer> now you also fried your SD?
Apr 03 11:33:33 <MohammadAG> on an N86 it causes a kernel panic
Apr 03 11:33:41 <MohammadAG> nah, it fried itself 3 months ago
Apr 03 11:33:47 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Apr 03 11:34:16 <DocScrutinizer> yeah those errors look like solidly fried and welldone
Apr 03 11:34:33 <MohammadAG> I like how the N86 just crashes
Apr 03 11:34:40 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Apr 03 11:34:42 <MohammadAG> it can't respond to anything, it doesn't even boot up when the card's in
Apr 03 11:35:04 <DocScrutinizer> wonders of sybian
Apr 03 11:35:11 <MohammadAG> I blame MeeGo, I used that card for testing!
Apr 03 11:35:31 <DocScrutinizer> umm, quite possible. There's been a ticket iirc
Apr 03 11:35:38 <MohammadAG> now where do I get some sulphuric acid...
Apr 03 11:35:46 * SpeedEvil has a barrel of 94%
Apr 03 11:35:55 <DocScrutinizer> car battery
Apr 03 11:35:56 <SpeedEvil> 'It seemed like a good idea at the time'
Apr 03 11:36:07 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Apr 03 11:36:11 * SpeedEvil should not be left alone with a credit card.
Apr 03 11:36:23 <DocScrutinizer> probably mad useful for killing weed
Apr 03 11:36:29 <SpeedEvil> Or plating stuff.
Apr 03 11:36:52 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: are you still unemployed?
Apr 03 11:36:55 <SpeedEvil> I was intending to use it for large-scale plating/electrodeposition experiemntes for regenerative rocket engine nozzles and combustionchambers.
Apr 03 11:37:00 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: Unfortunately, yes.
Apr 03 11:37:23 <MohammadAG> on N900: [70157.500122] mmc0: error -110 whilst initialising SD card
Apr 03 11:37:29 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you ARE a geek
Apr 03 11:37:37 <MohammadAG> hmm, /me tries it on the PS3 for the lulz
Apr 03 11:39:22 * DocScrutinizer envisions SpeedEvil standing at the side of a small steaming stinking pool in his garden and watching the leafs fall off the trees nearby
Apr 03 11:39:23 <kwtm> Thx for info about winmail.dat.  Unrelated question: I have installed lynx from extras-devel, but some help files seem to be missing.  In particular, "dpkg -L lynx" shows that files like "/usr/share/doc/lynx/lynx_help/leystrokes/cookie_help.html" (for example) were (supposed to be) installed, but the entire /usr/share/doc/lynx directory is missing.  How can I get the maemo.org web site to list what's actually in the lynx package to
Apr 03 11:39:25 <kwtm> see if the files are in the ".deb" file in the first place?
Apr 03 11:40:38 <DocScrutinizer> That's actually sth I wondered myself yesterday
Apr 03 11:42:12 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: (still unemployed) are you asking for hints about what you're facing?
Apr 03 11:42:23 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: the n900 has limited storage
Apr 03 11:42:27 <timeless_w7ip> so it uses "docpurge"
Apr 03 11:42:33 <timeless_w7ip> which suppresses /usr/share/doc
Apr 03 11:42:37 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Hmm.  I guess that's an indication I might not be able to have that question answered.  Ok, well, I think I'll install Lynx on my desktop and then rsync the files over to the N900.
Apr 03 11:42:44 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, what a crap
Apr 03 11:42:46 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Oh, crumm.  Is that why man pages are non-existent?
Apr 03 11:42:52 <timeless_w7ip> yes
Apr 03 11:42:53 <DocScrutinizer> (docpurge)
Apr 03 11:43:33 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: mompls
Apr 03 11:43:49 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Is this "docpurge" thing something that automatically happens each time I install a package, or the packages just come this way?  Geez, 32GB storage --you'd think they could include a few man pages. :P
Apr 03 11:43:53 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# man lynx
Apr 03 11:43:55 <DocScrutinizer> No manual entry for lynx
Apr 03 11:44:01 * DocScrutinizer frowns
Apr 03 11:44:05 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Sorry ... "mompls"?
Apr 03 11:44:13 <DocScrutinizer> moment please
Apr 03 11:44:25 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: err
Apr 03 11:44:26 <timeless_w7ip> no
Apr 03 11:44:35 <timeless_w7ip> there's 32gb of space for *user* storage
Apr 03 11:44:39 <timeless_w7ip> there's um
Apr 03 11:45:00 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: mandb-n900 pkg
Apr 03 11:45:25 <kwtm> Oh, that's what it stands for.  ... yeah, most of the time I can do without man pages since I can always look them up on the web ... with lynx ... if only I could navigate it properly with the proper keystrokes ... if I had the FRIKKKN keystrokes help file!!!  :(
Apr 03 11:45:56 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: don'tlisten to those youngsters that never had a linux box with a 80MB(sic!) HDD and complete manpages
Apr 03 11:46:29 <timeless_w7ip> doc: some of us used hdds w/ <40mb of space
Apr 03 11:46:42 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Yeah, I never figured out the distinction ... and I never understood why people wanted it formatted for some retarded DOS filesystem that doesn't even support symlinks.  Someday when I get half a moment I'm going to reformat for ... what does the rest of the N900 use, ext3 or ReiserFS?
Apr 03 11:46:45 * DocScrutinizer too, not for linux though
Apr 03 11:46:51 <timeless_w7ip> right
Apr 03 11:47:13 <arcol> hi
Apr 03 11:47:13 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: you don't care about being able to use your n900 w/ a second computer?
Apr 03 11:47:14 <DocScrutinizer> ext3
Apr 03 11:47:16 <kwtm> My first working Linux was BasicLinux with 20MB hard drive.
Apr 03 11:47:34 <timeless_w7ip> most *humans* like being able to plug their phones into a desktop or laptop and copy songs or stuff across
Apr 03 11:47:50 <timeless_w7ip> for this to work you need to either support MTP which some hackers curse
Apr 03 11:47:57 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Not with a computer that requires MicroS**t compatible system.  I use my N900 with a second computer by SSH'ing into the N900. :)
Apr 03 11:47:58 <timeless_w7ip> or something like FAT which some hackers also curse
Apr 03 11:48:07 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Apr 03 11:48:15 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: you aren't a human
Apr 03 11:48:20 <DocScrutinizer> about changing size of partitons
Apr 03 11:48:28 <timeless_w7ip> and thus are not relevant to design decisions
Apr 03 11:48:35 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Yeah, that's what I'm told.
Apr 03 11:49:00 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: do you honestly think the average person uses ssh?
Apr 03 11:49:14 <timeless_w7ip> you're welcome to fsck up your n900 as much as you like once you buy it
Apr 03 11:49:19 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip, do YOU think the average person uses a N900?  :)
Apr 03 11:49:30 <timeless_w7ip> but nokia's goal in designing the n900 was to sell the n900 to as many people as possible
Apr 03 11:49:32 <pupnik> there's a n online game with like 50k people that has an SDL client unported btw
Apr 03 11:49:37 <timeless_w7ip> and oddly enough it did an incredibly good job
Apr 03 11:49:44 <timeless_w7ip> for a product it wasn't really trying to sell at all
Apr 03 11:49:54 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Do you recommend resizing partitions more than changing the entire ~/MyDocs to ext3? (or whatever it uses...)
Apr 03 11:50:13 <DocScrutinizer> that's been the fundamental flaw in N900 concept
Apr 03 11:50:25 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Yeah, never quite figured out what Nokia wanted to do with the N900 until recently when Elop said, "Hey, let's have intercourse with Micros**t!"
Apr 03 11:50:33 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: some apps need that vfat it seems
Apr 03 11:50:38 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: please don't curse here
Apr 03 11:50:47 <timeless_w7ip> if you want to curse, go elsewhere
Apr 03 11:50:54 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Sorry, ** = "of".  Did you think I meant anything else? :)
Apr 03 11:50:57 <timeless_w7ip> please note that the n900 design decisions were made roughly 3 years ago
Apr 03 11:51:10 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: i think you're being an a**hole
Apr 03 11:51:16 <timeless_w7ip> ** = lt
Apr 03 11:51:19 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: What's a aofhole?
Apr 03 11:51:31 <kwtm> Ok, point taken with the asterisks,.
Apr 03 11:51:49 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Ahh... so I really do need the vfat partition, then ...
Apr 03 11:51:49 <timeless_w7ip> elop joined nokia <1 year ago
Apr 03 11:52:03 <timeless_w7ip> so any design decisions made for the n900 happened >2 years before he joined
Apr 03 11:52:10 <timeless_w7ip> and blaming him for them is absolutely *insane*
Apr 03 11:52:15 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: suggestion is to keep like 1GB, maybe 500M
Apr 03 11:52:21 <timeless_w7ip> please don't try to sound stupid, it's incredibly easy but will not win you any respect
Apr 03 11:52:38 <timeless_w7ip> compatibility with other devices is a general goal
Apr 03 11:52:45 <timeless_w7ip> it makes it easier for sales clerks to sell products
Apr 03 11:53:00 <timeless_w7ip> and it reduces returns stemming from "this doesn't work with my x"
Apr 03 11:53:10 <timeless_w7ip> both of which are important when you're in the business of selling hardware
Apr 03 11:53:23 <timeless_w7ip> as for whether average people use n900s, i've seen more n900s than i expected
Apr 03 11:53:27 <timeless_w7ip> and we sold more than we expected
Apr 03 11:53:37 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_w7ip: the general product requirement specs of N900 to comply with M$ lusers been a major fault
Apr 03 11:53:56 <timeless_w7ip> and they're definitely used by people who use normal computers
Apr 03 11:54:06 <timeless_w7ip> including apple macintoshes and windows
Apr 03 11:54:06 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, like me
Apr 03 11:54:15 <timeless_w7ip> doc: not really
Apr 03 11:54:27 <timeless_w7ip> the size balance was a marketing decision
Apr 03 11:54:47 <timeless_w7ip> optification design was an engineering flaw unrelated to the fat partition choice or the partition size
Apr 03 11:55:13 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: anyway
Apr 03 11:55:21 <timeless_w7ip> your device has 256mb of core storage
Apr 03 11:55:24 <DocScrutinizer> Nokia UX dudes failed epically on adapting maemo to windows paradigms and lusers' expectations, and they spoiled quite some bits for the linux nerds
Apr 03 11:55:32 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Your repartitioning web page seems to say that I have to re-aptgetinstall everything after I repartition and then reflash?
Apr 03 11:55:49 <timeless_w7ip> well over half of that is in use when we ship the device
Apr 03 11:56:15 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: it's the most simple 1 cmdline tweak to partition size, done prior to flashing
Apr 03 11:56:16 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Just to clarify: I was not blaming Elop, just saying that Nokia's direction was not clear until he joined.
Apr 03 11:56:31 <DocScrutinizer> there are other ways but they are way more complicated
Apr 03 11:56:35 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: well
Apr 03 11:56:45 <timeless_w7ip> the reason it wasn't clear is because it didn't have one
Apr 03 11:56:55 <timeless_w7ip> your statement implied it had a secret one
Apr 03 11:56:57 <timeless_w7ip> which is false
Apr 03 11:57:12 <timeless_w7ip> and there's an incredibly significant difference between having a secret agenda
Apr 03 11:57:16 <timeless_w7ip> and not having an agenda at all
Apr 03 11:57:30 <kwtm> I probably deserve to seem stupid but didn't want to seem *that* stupid.  I just didn't realize that Nokia's poor decisions had such a deep-seated cause until Elop brought to light how bad things were internally at Nokia.
Apr 03 11:57:31 <timeless_w7ip> elop did not "unveil a secret plan from 5 years ago"
Apr 03 11:58:02 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: ok, just in the future, please be *much* more careful with your choice of words
Apr 03 11:58:08 <timeless_w7ip> words are incredibly powerflu
Apr 03 11:58:14 <timeless_w7ip> 477M    /usr/share/
Apr 03 11:58:23 <timeless_w7ip> is a size from a random linux box i'm using right now
Apr 03 11:58:35 <timeless_w7ip> keep in mind that the file system for the n900 is only 256mb large and needs to host an os
Apr 03 11:58:47 <timeless_w7ip> app devs have a tendency to stick lots of crap in /usr/share
Apr 03 11:58:47 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_w7ip: get a cup of coffee and a cig
Apr 03 11:58:54 <timeless_w7ip> which 99% of the population never touch
Apr 03 11:59:11 <timeless_w7ip> err, sorry
Apr 03 11:59:18 <timeless_w7ip> 94M     /usr/share/doc/
Apr 03 11:59:32 <timeless_w7ip> but still, if we allocated 100mb for /usr/share/doc/
Apr 03 11:59:34 <pupnik> a smaller root filesystem saves battery, yes?
Apr 03 11:59:36 <timeless_w7ip> there wouldn't be any space for apps
Apr 03 11:59:43 <timeless_w7ip> pupnik: saves on cost
Apr 03 11:59:46 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: how that?
Apr 03 11:59:53 <timeless_w7ip> the flash used for the root file system is faster and smaller
Apr 03 12:00:09 <timeless_w7ip> buying more flash in that form costs more
Apr 03 12:00:13 <DocScrutinizer> marginally faster
Apr 03 12:00:18 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: dunno, smaller emmc device costing less energy?
Apr 03 12:00:28 <timeless_w7ip> pupnik: we're not talking about emmc
Apr 03 12:00:32 <timeless_w7ip> this is about rootfs
Apr 03 12:00:35 <timeless_w7ip> a different flash module
Apr 03 12:00:40 <pupnik> oh what's it called?
Apr 03 12:00:50 <timeless_w7ip> nand flash i suppose
Apr 03 12:00:52 * timeless_w7ip shrugs
Apr 03 12:01:00 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: how does that help when we got a 32gb emmc anyway, and btw root is on NAND, not emmc
Apr 03 12:01:06 <timeless_w7ip> the problem is that they're both 'flash memory' and you can flash 'both' of htem
Apr 03 12:01:09 <timeless_w7ip> s/htem/them/
Apr 03 12:01:09 <infobot> timeless_w7ip meant: the problem is that they're both 'flash memory' and you can flash 'both' of them
Apr 03 12:01:12 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: your replacement for apt-get: that is intended to do the usual apt-get plus record the installations in a log file?  Is that necessary for me to change the partition size?  It is not clear to me what that does which "dpkg --get-selections >WhatIHaveInstalled.log" doesn't do.
Apr 03 12:01:43 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: do emmc / nand devices sleep?
Apr 03 12:01:45 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: no that's unrelated
Apr 03 12:02:17 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: not exactly
Apr 03 12:02:22 <timeless_w7ip> pupnik: the choice of 30gb (?) for user data was mostly marketing again
Apr 03 12:02:37 <timeless_w7ip> it sounds better and makes sufficient sense for the vast majority of users
Apr 03 12:02:46 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Also: if I grasp this correctly, by changing a line in vanilla.bin, I can change the size of /home when I reflash.  So this is the vanilla.bin that is on my desktop before I flash it onto the N900, correct?
Apr 03 12:02:51 <timeless_w7ip> you're unlikely to manage to install 2gb of apps
Apr 03 12:03:02 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: only the first box is about partitioning
Apr 03 12:03:12 <timeless_w7ip> (ignore the fact that there's a marketing allocation of 3/4gb for swap for another marketing item)
Apr 03 12:03:24 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: correct
Apr 03 12:04:16 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: to answer your next question: the rest of eMMC will get used for vfat
Apr 03 12:04:18 <timeless_w7ip> pupnik: sizes are basically tunables
Apr 03 12:04:21 <kwtm> Oh!  I didn't realize it was that easy.  Ok, will probably do that sometime this week (I'm tuning/purging my laptop/desktop these next few days so will probably keep my N900 as is until everything on the desktop is shown to be working again.)
Apr 03 12:04:33 <timeless_w7ip> picking defaults is hard
Apr 03 12:04:53 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Oh!  I didn't realize I had a next question, but now that you mention it, I suddenly have this urge to ask ... How does it know how much I want for vfat?  --Oh!  You answered it already. :)
Apr 03 12:04:55 <timeless_w7ip> but you often turn to marketing which makes a call based on what it thinks makes sense unless you can come up w/ a better reason not to
Apr 03 12:05:06 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: if you want to take pictures
Apr 03 12:05:11 <timeless_w7ip> or worse.. movies
Apr 03 12:05:18 <timeless_w7ip> you want space for them
Apr 03 12:05:32 <timeless_w7ip> (yes, the camera is among the thinks which is picky about having a fat volume)
Apr 03 12:05:54 <timeless_w7ip> part of the reason for that is that it wants to know when the place where it's trying to save isn't available because it's exported to a usb host
Apr 03 12:06:22 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Hmm... ok, so the camera requires vfat.  Hmm... I do take pictures/movies ... what to do what to do..
Apr 03 12:06:23 <DocScrutinizer> camera will happily store to uSD though
Apr 03 12:07:11 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer to the rescue!  I suppose I can check if camera has a setting to store to uSD?  Come to think of it, I think that's what I've got it set at right now.
Apr 03 12:07:18 * pupnik has gone from wishing the n900 were better to being happy it ever was produced
Apr 03 12:07:47 <kwtm> Speaking of which, can the N900 handle uSD >16GB?  No such card has been available locally so I never asked.
Apr 03 12:08:00 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: allegedly yes
Apr 03 12:08:26 <kwtm> pupnik: I've taken to assuming that, any moment now, I will be the only N900 user left on this planet.  Which is why I'm installing all sorts of stuff on my N900 now even though I might not use it for a long long time.
Apr 03 12:08:59 <pupnik> what do u mean, there's no replacement device in-sight
Apr 03 12:09:00 <HRH_H_Crab> im still using mine.
Apr 03 12:09:02 <HRH_H_Crab> :P
Apr 03 12:09:21 <DocScrutinizer> I'll use mine for a loooong time to come
Apr 03 12:09:23 <HRH_H_Crab> if i had the cash id buy another spare too for when this one dies.
Apr 03 12:09:38 <pupnik> planning for another one here too
Apr 03 12:09:39 <HRH_H_Crab> if i had a LOT of cash id prob. buy multipe spares.
Apr 03 12:09:44 * DocScrutinizer got ONE spare
Apr 03 12:09:58 * DocScrutinizer would like to have another one
Apr 03 12:10:10 <kwtm> pupnik: What I mean is: the N900 ecosystem is fragile.  There might not be replacement parts, and if I upgrade to PR 1.3 there won't be a Nokia person at the other end of the helpline to say, "We'll support you!"
Apr 03 12:10:58 <DocScrutinizer> helpline has de facto moved to <here>
Apr 03 12:11:03 <kwtm> and I'm paranoid about the USB port now ... I've got my universal battery charger ... figuring out how to SSH into the N900 in case the keyboard fails or my screen gets cracked ...
Apr 03 12:11:13 <pupnik> kwtm: it's not exactly like buying a symbian/apple phone in that regard
Apr 03 12:11:15 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Yeah, I'm so glad the maemo community is here.
Apr 03 12:12:04 <pupnik> what kind of question would you ask a support line?
Apr 03 12:12:19 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: I sympathize with your mindset
Apr 03 12:12:22 <pupnik> i haven't even been able to think of one that i'd expect them to be able to answer
Apr 03 12:12:33 <kwtm> You know, I can't seem to find where to tell my camera to capture to uSD instead of flash memory.  Not in "camera" or "settings".  Can someone refresh my memory?
Apr 03 12:12:58 <DocScrutinizer> in camera
Apr 03 12:13:00 <kwtm> pupnik: I already used Nokia twice to return the first two N900's that I bought.
Apr 03 12:13:07 <DocScrutinizer> click on card icon iirc
Apr 03 12:13:16 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: I tap on the ... ohhh, the CARD icon!  Let me try..
Apr 03 12:13:20 <pupnik> what was defective kwtm (!)
Apr 03 12:13:35 <ShadowJK> open lens cover, tap preview so you get titlebar frame, tap titlebar, tap general settings
Apr 03 12:14:20 <DocScrutinizer> meh, tap on card icon bottom left
Apr 03 12:15:26 <DocScrutinizer> time for 12648430   ☕
Apr 03 12:15:42 <kwtm> pupnik: Ohhh... well, after fiddling with it for a bit, it wouldn't boot properly, until I reflashed.  Then it would happen again.  Since I didn't reboot the N900 too often, it was not obvious exactly when it would switch over to this state where a reboot would cause it to hang, and what I was doing (if anything) to cause it.
Apr 03 12:16:44 <kwtm> After spending a long time in this IRC channel and in the forums, we tried switching uSD cards and SIM cards and it would still happen, so I thought it might be a bad unit, or (after buying another one from the same store) a bad batch.
Apr 03 12:17:13 <pupnik> interesting
Apr 03 12:17:26 <pupnik> did you resolve the issue?
Apr 03 12:17:28 <kwtm> After the same problem happened with a unit I got from Amazon instead of the local electronics store, I thought maybe, just maybe, there was actually a bug in the software.  [omit mention of the derision I got from some N900 experts here ...]
Apr 03 12:18:14 <kwtm> anyway, it turned out that a 2-line text file which does not exist by default on the N900, which if present, can cause one of the installed-by-default pieces of software on the N900 to prevent being able to boot properly.
Apr 03 12:19:13 <pupnik> where was this textfile stored and what did it contain?
Apr 03 12:19:28 <pupnik> much of the configuration of linux devices is in text files
Apr 03 12:19:37 <kwtm> So, the lesson is, never assume that anything you do on the N900 is safe and won't interact with other software, no matter how ridiculous it might seem that such a harmless thing can bring down a $500 piece of equipment.
Apr 03 12:20:12 <kwtm> The text file is ~/.profile  ... which, to all rights, should NOT be executed by the shell unless it's an interactive shell.
Apr 03 12:20:47 <kwtm> Furthermore, if the shell DOES decide to execute it, and it results in an error, it should NOT cause the entire device to lock up on booting! :(
Apr 03 12:21:18 <pupnik> i didn't know it read .profile on boot either
Apr 03 12:21:44 <kwtm> In the ~/.profile, I sourced a longer .profile stored in flash storage ... which is not yet mounted on bootup.  So then it just decides to flash those five bootup dots forever.
Apr 03 12:22:21 <kwtm> And here I was, trying to figure out how to download the flash image from my crummy connection on my hotel room ...
Apr 03 12:22:25 * timeless_w7ip ponders
Apr 03 12:22:34 <timeless_w7ip> are you sure about your claims for .profile?
Apr 03 12:22:37 <kwtm> unable to make phone calls on my cell because the N900 was in "forever dots" mode.
Apr 03 12:22:39 <pupnik> you're serious?
Apr 03 12:22:51 <timeless_w7ip> my naive reading says ".profile is executed each time you log in"
Apr 03 12:22:54 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: When I removed the ~/.profile, it worked.
Apr 03 12:23:00 <timeless_w7ip> to me when i start X, i've "logged in"
Apr 03 12:23:41 <pupnik> i'm surprised i haven't messed up my .profile yet
Apr 03 12:24:09 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: I could be wrong.  My understanding is that .bashrc or .shlogin whatever the equivalent is for logging in, and .profile is for when I get a shell prompt.
Apr 03 12:24:26 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: But possibly the N900 considers the GUI as a form of having logged in.
Apr 03 12:24:54 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: But I continue to think that, if a file is non-existent, the resulting error should not render the device unbootable.
Apr 03 12:25:24 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: if you can break the device from the gui (x terminal is not the gui) without installing third party software
Apr 03 12:25:26 <timeless_w7ip> then it's a bug
Apr 03 12:25:26 <kwtm> We also had a lively discussion about whether the N900 should have a reset button like my desktop or the Treo (e.g 650 which I had been using previously)
Apr 03 12:25:42 <timeless_w7ip> if you can't, then you're taking advantage of your powers as a user to break everything
Apr 03 12:25:53 <ShadowJK> iirc there's a "set" statement that makes commands in a script not fail entire script
Apr 03 12:26:25 <ShadowJK> but I just added ||echo "Oh no" to everything I add
Apr 03 12:26:29 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: I guess I'll just say we all have our own opinions about what does or does not constitute a bug, and leave it at that.
Apr 03 12:26:47 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: a bug is something that doesn't work according to design
Apr 03 12:27:04 <timeless_w7ip> the design allows you to break the device as much as you like by installing third party software or using xterminal
Apr 03 12:27:06 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: I guess I'll just say we all have our own opinions about what does or does not constitute reasonable design, and leave it at that.
Apr 03 12:27:24 <timeless_w7ip> if we *didn't* allow you to break your device
Apr 03 12:27:29 <timeless_w7ip> you'd scream bloody murder
Apr 03 12:27:33 <timeless_w7ip> you can't have that both ways
Apr 03 12:27:33 <kwtm> Anyway ... so, watch out for ~/.profile
Apr 03 12:27:45 <timeless_w7ip> i suggest you be happy w/ the tradeoff of being able to break your device
Apr 03 12:27:53 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Well, that wasn't the main issue .. the main issue was that no one else had encountered this problem before, so it was difficult to track down.
Apr 03 12:27:55 <timeless_w7ip> otherwise, you should buy an iPhone
Apr 03 12:28:19 <timeless_w7ip> there are an infinite number of ways to break a unix system
Apr 03 12:28:31 <timeless_w7ip> so yeah, it's unfortunate that you found a less travelled path :)
Apr 03 12:28:32 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Just to be clear, I'm NOT accusing you of breaking my device.
Apr 03 12:28:38 <kwtm> :)
Apr 03 12:28:41 <timeless_w7ip> oh good
Apr 03 12:28:50 <BCMM> timeless_w7ip: y'know, the iphone runs Unix...
Apr 03 12:28:51 <timeless_w7ip> sadly you're unhappy about my employer and my larger team
Apr 03 12:29:02 <timeless_w7ip> bcmm: well
Apr 03 12:29:05 <timeless_w7ip> it uses a mach kernel
Apr 03 12:29:08 <timeless_w7ip> and runs iOS
Apr 03 12:29:16 <timeless_w7ip> whether people would call it unix, i dunno
Apr 03 12:29:17 <ShadowJK> BCMM, but they dont let you tinker with it
Apr 03 12:29:17 <kwtm> Aaaanyway, so that's why I'm really careful nowadays about what I do with my N900 ...
Apr 03 12:29:23 <BCMM> i know
Apr 03 12:29:25 <timeless_w7ip> OS X is unix, yes
Apr 03 12:29:51 <BCMM> isn't iOS Darwin-based?
Apr 03 12:29:53 <timeless_w7ip> and on OS X, you do have the abilities given to you by unix to break your mac in an infinite number of ways
Apr 03 12:30:01 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Well, I guess I really had high hopes for Nokia, and part of it was going in the right direction in terms of having the support of the Open Source community ... but sadly that is not going to continue. :(
Apr 03 12:30:05 <timeless_w7ip> iOS does not however give you that power
Apr 03 12:30:19 <timeless_w7ip> and that's a design choice
Apr 03 12:30:23 <timeless_w7ip> it isn't a "bug"
Apr 03 12:30:33 <timeless_w7ip> just as the n900 *does* give you that power
Apr 03 12:30:40 <timeless_w7ip> and you exercising that power is not a bug per se
Apr 03 12:30:48 <timeless_w7ip> it may lead to unfortunate results
Apr 03 12:31:05 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Well, I got a lot of "you're such a NOOB!  I've had my N900 for 6 months now and I'
Apr 03 12:31:12 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Well, I got a lot of "you're such a NOOB!  I've had my N900 for 6 months now and I've NEVER had it unable to boot!" etc. etc.
Apr 03 12:31:22 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: did you use tmo or something?
Apr 03 12:31:25 <timeless_w7ip> if so, i'm sorry :)
Apr 03 12:31:29 <kwtm> What's tmo?
Apr 03 12:31:31 <timeless_w7ip> for that, you do have my sympathies
Apr 03 12:31:38 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_w7ip: is this just me or are you actually in an argue-happy mood today? Did the cig and coffee fail on giving you some relief?
Apr 03 12:31:48 <timeless_w7ip> doc: i'm unhappy today, yes
Apr 03 12:31:50 <pupnik> kwtm: well that's an unfortunate sequence of events :/
Apr 03 12:31:56 <BCMM> kwtm: somewhere people say NOOB a lot :)
Apr 03 12:32:07 <BCMM> (the talk.maemo.org forums)
Apr 03 12:32:16 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: if you don't know, count yourself as blessed and don't find out
Apr 03 12:32:19 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Or is it just me?  If so, I'm sorry, I don't mean to argue.  Just saying that this N900 is very very precious to me now that we don't foresee more Linux support for such devices from Nokia.
Apr 03 12:32:42 <BCMM> i like TMO. it distract certain people who could end up on IRC without it.
Apr 03 12:32:44 <DocScrutinizer> ~tmo
Apr 03 12:32:44 <infobot> it has been said that tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo
Apr 03 12:32:47 * timeless_w7ip isn't sure how to reply to that
Apr 03 12:32:53 <timeless_w7ip> bcmm++
Apr 03 12:32:54 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Oh, you mean where did I get the flak from?  No, actually, I got mostly good support from tmo.  The flak was from this IRC channel, actually.
Apr 03 12:33:51 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: sorry to hear that
Apr 03 12:34:08 <timeless_w7ip> anyway, generally speaking a terminal on any os will enable you to break stuff
Apr 03 12:34:21 <kwtm> I see now that there can be just a minority of people who can make things really intimidating for a noob.
Apr 03 12:34:21 <timeless_w7ip> and there's an implied contract that you should know what you're doing and remember what you've done
Apr 03 12:34:50 <timeless_w7ip> you can break a windows computer or a macintosh similarly easily if you wield a command prompt
Apr 03 12:34:58 <mikhas> happens with every community
Apr 03 12:35:01 <timeless_w7ip> my favorite is OS X w/ file vault
Apr 03 12:35:08 <timeless_w7ip> if you ssh into a file vault'd user and log out
Apr 03 12:35:18 <timeless_w7ip> then you'll never be able to log into that user's account again
Apr 03 12:35:24 <timeless_w7ip> because it doesn't unmount the volume
Apr 03 12:35:26 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: Well, at the time we were suspicious of all sorts of packages from extras-devel, so I tried installing half of it at a time, installing different halves and seeing which combination of installed packages resulted in a crash.  Which is why I haven't been installing from extras-devel until recently.
Apr 03 12:35:27 <mikhas> some people feel their opinion has more weight, because they've been there "from the beginning", or so
Apr 03 12:35:28 <timeless_w7ip> and gets really pissed :)
Apr 03 12:36:03 <kwtm> mikhas: Yes, I see that now.  But at the time I hadn't been on IRC a lot ; I just logged on because I was desperate to make a phone call and my cell phone had crashed. :P
Apr 03 12:36:08 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: the reason to be suspicious of third party <Stuff> is because it's usually to blame
Apr 03 12:36:16 <timeless_w7ip> in this case it was a third party file created by you :)
Apr 03 12:36:28 <timeless_w7ip> it's easier to finger third party software because that's easier to spot
Apr 03 12:36:39 <timeless_w7ip> it's also easier to test/revert
Apr 03 12:36:54 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: that too
Apr 03 12:36:56 <kwtm> So, going back to the original reason I brought this up: now it's a tradeoff between "don't install from extras-devel because it might break the N900 again!" and "install from extras-devel now before the repository disappears in a Left Behind type scenario!"
Apr 03 12:37:01 <timeless_w7ip> note that the same applies on windows, os x and other browsers
Apr 03 12:37:02 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: ??
Apr 03 12:37:06 <jacekowski> 13:37 < DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: (still unemployed) are you asking for hints about what you're facing?
Apr 03 12:37:13 <timeless_w7ip> the first step is "try safe mode (which disables third party drivers, addons, etc)"
Apr 03 12:37:26 <jacekowski> i have all plugs and sockets and stuff
Apr 03 12:37:49 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: ah
Apr 03 12:37:56 <timeless_w7ip> well, install one app at a time
Apr 03 12:38:02 <timeless_w7ip> and test all apps after you install each app
Apr 03 12:38:05 <timeless_w7ip> but actually
Apr 03 12:38:12 <timeless_w7ip> the right thing to do is to get someone to mirror it
Apr 03 12:38:18 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: I haven't found any *serious* problems with any devel sw
Apr 03 12:38:28 <kwtm> I ask myself: if I am marooned on an island on the other side of the world, where no one has ever heard of Linux, for how long will I be able to use my smartphone?  (This actually happened, btw.)
Apr 03 12:38:30 <timeless_w7ip> because as i learned, just because you install stuff doesn't mean you won't want to reinstall it later
Apr 03 12:38:48 <timeless_w7ip> kwtm: your island has cellular/wifi? :)
Apr 03 12:38:54 * timeless_w7ip prefers the islands that don't
Apr 03 12:39:05 <timeless_w7ip> also, it has A/C? :)
Apr 03 12:39:18 <timeless_w7ip> again, the islands which don't are better ;)
Apr 03 12:39:31 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: I tried installing one app at a time, but because the crash would only happened at odd times, I couldn't actually trigged it to crash.  When I realized it was crashing on bootup, then I figured out how to reproduce the fault and it took only 2 hours to zero in on the problem.
Apr 03 12:39:55 <timeless_w7ip> (wrt installing stuff, i had installed an app i really liked, but it disappeared from its repo, and after reflashing i couldn't reinstall it. had i saved the .deb's i'd have been fine)
Apr 03 12:40:02 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: the island in question has wifi/cellular, yes.  Also A/C.  Also N900's for sale!  But no one has heard of Linux.
Apr 03 12:40:18 <timeless_w7ip> n900's for sale!? wow
Apr 03 12:40:24 <timeless_w7ip> get me the number for that island!
Apr 03 12:40:40 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: It happened before I bought my N900.  I had my Treo, and a car charger for it, plus an adapter so I could plug the car charger into a wall socket.
Apr 03 12:40:56 * timeless_w7ip nods
Apr 03 12:41:04 <timeless_w7ip> still a cool island
Apr 03 12:41:12 <jacekowski> where is that island
Apr 03 12:41:15 <kwtm> timeless_w7ip: (The sale price was higher than from Amazon.com)  So, anyway... the adapter for the wall socket blew.  SO I couldn't charge my Treo.
Apr 03 12:41:19 <jacekowski> is it australia?
Apr 03 12:41:19 <kwtm> jacekowski: Hong Kong.
Apr 03 12:41:33 <timeless_w7ip> that's a rather sizable island :)
Apr 03 12:41:38 <timeless_w7ip> and sales there started late
Apr 03 12:41:54 <DocScrutinizer> eeeew hong kong
Apr 03 12:42:05 <DocScrutinizer> way too busy
Apr 03 12:42:07 <kwtm> So I looked around in the PLETHORA of electronic stores that cover Hong Kong.  Well, they've never heard of a car-charger-to-wall adapter.  Most people don't drive cars.
Apr 03 12:42:09 * timeless_w7ip notes that it's roughly equivalent to calling Austalia or Japan "islands")
Apr 03 12:42:28 <timeless_w7ip> heh
Apr 03 12:42:31 <jacekowski> kwtm: just get a car battery charger
Apr 03 12:42:41 <timeless_w7ip> jacekowski: and a car?
Apr 03 12:42:46 <jacekowski> kwtm: some of them have 12V socket on them
Apr 03 12:42:48 <kwtm> The Treo (curse you, Palm!) uses a non-standard charger that changes with each model of Treo.
Apr 03 12:43:07 <kwtm> jacekowski: I *have* a car battery charger.  I didn't have a car.  99% of the population don't.
Apr 03 12:43:19 <jacekowski> as far as i know that agreement between manufacturers to use microusb for charging
Apr 03 12:43:27 <jacekowski> is now a law in eu
Apr 03 12:43:29 <kwtm> So then I looked for a universal battery charger!  Guess what --the Treo battery is 2mm too large to fit in.
Apr 03 12:43:50 <jacekowski> kwtm: no wonder why palm went bust
Apr 03 12:43:53 <jacekowski> and taken over by hp
Apr 03 12:44:01 <kwtm> jacekowski: Yeah, I'm so glad there's that standard.  Treo sells a USB adapter for charging ... which, with express shipping, would arrive about 2 days after I left Hong Kong.
Apr 03 12:44:27 <jacekowski> kwtm: isn't most of that stuff made i china anyways
Apr 03 12:44:42 <kwtm> jacekowski: Hey, I was a  relatively early Palm adopter (Palm III was my first), and after they got bought by USRobotics, they were already showing signs of $BIG_COMPANY managing $SMALL_STARTUP
Apr 03 12:44:47 <pupnik> more gaming measurements - averaging around 390 mA current draw
Apr 03 12:45:29 <kwtm> jacekowski: Yeah, but you can't buy it in Hong Kong.  I asked, "Treo 650?" and they said, "Wasn't that from ancient history?  Like, from the Ming dynasty?  Everyone's using the Treo 9900000x nowadays --want a charger for *that*?"
Apr 03 12:45:53 <pupnik> kwtm: can you order things on-line there?
Apr 03 12:46:14 <kwtm> jacekowski: Then I got the TRGpro, and the HandEra, and then (what a mistake!) the Tungsten SomethingOrOther, and finally the Treo 650, before that charger fiasco made me say: No more Palm!
Apr 03 12:46:24 <kwtm> pupnik: Yes, but I was only in Hong Kong for 3 weeks, and shipping would take too long.
Apr 03 12:46:36 <pupnik> ah annoying
Apr 03 12:47:22 <kwtm> So (not that this conversation is related to Maemo any more) I was so paranoid that I had my Treo off all the time (it was on red-warning-low-battery mode by now) and couldn't rely on the calendar reminders (like "renew travel documents TODAY so you can travel back home!")...
Apr 03 12:47:28 * pupnik raises a glass to micro-usb charging
Apr 03 12:48:09 <MohammadAG> ~seen noobmok3y
Apr 03 12:48:11 <kwtm> It turns out that, once I was able to get it charged (finally found a wall charger in some far-off electronics store), the Treo uses practically no battery charge if you don't use it as a cell phone ...
Apr 03 12:48:12 <pupnik> another nice thing is a spare battery + universal charger, kwtm
Apr 03 12:48:15 <MohammadAG> ~seen noobmonk3y
Apr 03 12:48:18 <infobot> MohammadAG: i haven't seen 'noobmok3y'
Apr 03 12:48:19 <infobot> noobmonk3y <~Noobmonk3@212.183.128.78> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23d 18h 29m 2s ago, saying: 'lol'.
Apr 03 12:48:41 <kwtm> pupnik: tried that.  Universal chargers nowadays won't fit the large Treo 650 battery.  It was just 2mm too large to squeeze in.
Apr 03 12:49:11 * kwtm shudders.
Apr 03 12:49:24 <kwtm> Anyway, microUSB chargers ftw.
Apr 03 12:49:29 * DocScrutinizer curses USB charging
Apr 03 12:50:00 <kwtm> Nice talking with you guys.  I have to go purge some desktop/laptop Ubuntu setups and then reflash my N900.
Apr 03 12:50:08 <DocScrutinizer> It's like having a standard to convert arbitrary vacuum cleaners into hairdryer
Apr 03 12:50:43 <pupnik> cheers kwtm
Apr 03 12:52:06 <Macer> hahahaha
Apr 03 12:52:27 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: but at least you can use different chargers
Apr 03 12:52:46 <Macer> :)
Apr 03 13:00:38 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: you happened to notice you could use virtually any arbitrary Nokia charger (barrel type 3.5mm) for every Nokia phone, since 1997, and as well all universal PSU with a 4.5V setting and a matching 3.5mm adapter?
Apr 03 13:02:15 <DocScrutinizer> plus those barrel plugs were WAY more ruggedized than any mini/micro-USB
Apr 03 13:02:41 <DocScrutinizer> and magnitudes cleaner useage pattern
Apr 03 13:03:56 <DocScrutinizer> also could handle *real* fastcharging, while USB is specified only up to 1000mA afaik
Apr 03 13:05:32 <DocScrutinizer> probably requiring all devices have a 3.5mm stereo headset receptacle and the abuse that for charging would have been a saner concept than charging over USB
Apr 03 13:06:16 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: i meant other brand phone chargers
Apr 03 13:06:26 <DocScrutinizer> so what?
Apr 03 13:06:52 <Macer> well. sometimes you might forget your proprietary nokia charger
Apr 03 13:07:06 <DocScrutinizer> you can specify all phones need a 3.5mm barrel charger receptacle as easily as they specified all phones need to charge via USB
Apr 03 13:07:07 <Macer> maybe nokia should have kept both
Apr 03 13:07:21 <pupnik> charging over 3.5mm headset - cool idea DocScrutinizer
Apr 03 13:07:31 <Macer> usb was already a standard
Apr 03 13:07:36 <DocScrutinizer> BS
Apr 03 13:08:06 <Macer> and... screw nokia anyways. they suck. nobody wants to follow nokidiot inc
Apr 03 13:08:09 <timeless_w7ip> isn't usb more like 100 standards?
Apr 03 13:08:09 <pupnik> i love the idea
Apr 03 13:08:18 <Macer> :)
Apr 03 13:08:20 <DocScrutinizer> charging over USB was nothing near any standard. Not even all phones having an USB was any standard, neither defacto nor written
Apr 03 13:08:50 <ShadowJK> usb wasnt a standard, in fact, many pre-standard usb chargers are incompatible with standards compliant devices :)
Apr 03 13:08:51 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_w7ip: would you like to kick Macer ?
Apr 03 13:08:54 <Macer> but i am sure the usb charging was easier to implement as a charging solution
Apr 03 13:09:17 <Macer> across the board
Apr 03 13:09:35 <pupnik> but more phones have a 3.5mm jack
Apr 03 13:09:40 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: not at all. USB charging gives endless headache
Apr 03 13:10:05 <timeless_w7ip> pupnik: a lot of phones don't though :)
Apr 03 13:10:16 <DocScrutinizer> see N810, has nice USB hostmode *because* it doesn't need to charge via USB
Apr 03 13:10:22 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: to you maybe. only time i thought it was an issue was when i couldnt charge and listen to music in headphones on my g1
Apr 03 13:10:57 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: who gives a fsck about *your* headache
Apr 03 13:11:01 <Macer> hahaha
Apr 03 13:11:13 <DocScrutinizer> are *you* designing the hardware?
Apr 03 13:11:18 <Macer> who gives a fsck about yours? ;)
Apr 03 13:12:16 <DocScrutinizer> about mine all those bother that get kicked ass when the EE design doesn't meet my requirements
Apr 03 13:12:40 <DocScrutinizer> so it's their headache as well
Apr 03 13:12:43 <Macer> i think the goal was to allow charger swapping. he usb stuff was probably already in place to be manufactured whereas developing a "new" standard would require more time.. and most importantly... money
Apr 03 13:13:13 <DocScrutinizer> and you bet it's been Nokia EE's headache when they found they had to bin hostmode on N900 due to USB charging
Apr 03 13:13:43 <Macer> nokia could have added a secondary host
Apr 03 13:13:58 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: stop telling BS. 3.5mm barrel is from 1997 as I already explained above. No need to "invent a new standard"
Apr 03 13:14:09 <Macer> they didnt because it cost too much and they could care less about some usb host mode hackery
Apr 03 13:14:11 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: no, you mustn't
Apr 03 13:14:20 <DocScrutinizer> read USB-OTG specs
Apr 03 13:14:54 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: you're soo err smart. I dunno what to answer
Apr 03 13:15:00 <ShadowJK> usb charting *was* a new standard. Existing stuff didnt work with it. This is why hostmode is so difficult on n900, they had to add a separate chip to meet the new usb charging standard
Apr 03 13:16:11 <timeless_w7ip> shadowjk: s/charting/charging/ ;-)
Apr 03 13:16:54 <Macer> ShadowJK: they didn't HAVE to. they wanted to. they could have just as easily used their older charging method. there isnt a law preventing them from doing that. i suppose it is just an idea to be able to charge while hooked up to a nokia netbook (running windows 7) to charge their new nokia phone (running winmob)
Apr 03 13:17:44 * timeless_w7ip is pretty sure nokia committed to usb charging *before* the EU mandated it
Apr 03 13:17:46 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: stop handwaving telling BS. There
Apr 03 13:18:01 <DocScrutinizer> 's a law that made manufs have USB charging
Apr 03 13:18:02 <timeless_w7ip> nokia could have shipped 2 usb ports too
Apr 03 13:18:06 <timeless_w7ip> but ...
Apr 03 13:18:06 <DocScrutinizer> no
Apr 03 13:18:20 <DocScrutinizer> not if trying to get USB-OTG cert
Apr 03 13:18:24 <Macer> heh they could do whatever they wanted to
Apr 03 13:18:32 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Apr 03 13:18:32 <timeless_w7ip> doc: you're only allowed one? :)
Apr 03 13:18:37 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Apr 03 13:18:40 <DocScrutinizer> OTG
Apr 03 13:18:43 <timeless_w7ip> wow, interesting
Apr 03 13:18:45 <DocScrutinizer> only one receptacle
Apr 03 13:19:11 <Macer> they could have used their older charger
Apr 03 13:19:11 <timeless_w7ip> fwiw, oddly the n8 has two charging ports
Apr 03 13:19:27 <MohammadAG> timeless_w7ip, not a USB one
Apr 03 13:19:27 <DocScrutinizer> you MAY have a dedicated charger receptacle in addition though
Apr 03 13:19:38 <timeless_w7ip> mohammadag: um, they both work
Apr 03 13:19:42 <DocScrutinizer> *not* USB formfactor
Apr 03 13:20:02 <MohammadAG> timeless_w7ip, but one's a USB, the other isn't
Apr 03 13:20:14 <MohammadAG> the E75 has the same
Apr 03 13:20:17 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: they are not required by some sort of law to adhere to a usb charging method are they?
Apr 03 13:20:26 <DocScrutinizer> they are
Apr 03 13:20:34 <timeless_w7ip> mohammadag: careful w/ your English
Apr 03 13:20:36 <Macer> uhm
Apr 03 13:20:48 <DocScrutinizer> uhm yeah. Now please stop that BS
Apr 03 13:20:54 <timeless_w7ip> the n8 has *one* usb port which is a 'usb [charging] one' and one non usb port which is for charging too
Apr 03 13:20:57 <Macer> er
Apr 03 13:21:03 <DocScrutinizer> come back after reading specs and wiki
Apr 03 13:21:24 <MohammadAG> timeless_w7ip, can't someone be lazy?
Apr 03 13:21:28 <Macer> i would love to read this international law requirement that completely restricts hardware development
Apr 03 13:21:37 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_w7ip: now that'S really odd
Apr 03 13:21:40 <timeless_w7ip> mohammadag: one can try, but it's incredibly risky
Apr 03 13:21:50 <timeless_w7ip> doc: i didn't say it wasn't
Apr 03 13:21:52 <Macer> if you have a link i would love to read it
Apr 03 13:22:00 <timeless_w7ip> macer: it isn't about development
Apr 03 13:22:07 <timeless_w7ip> laws generally cover sale
Apr 03 13:22:18 <timeless_w7ip> "you may not sell an <X> unless it does|has <Y>"
Apr 03 13:22:32 <timeless_w7ip> e.g. "you may not sell electronics which does not have FCC certification"
Apr 03 13:22:39 <timeless_w7ip> or whatever the EU equivalent is
Apr 03 13:22:43 <DocScrutinizer> USB-OTG specs aren't exactly unambiguous on that, but the usual way to read those is you must not have 2 USB receptacles
Apr 03 13:22:52 <timeless_w7ip> doc: lol
Apr 03 13:23:12 <DocScrutinizer> though technically they speak about 2 USB host receptacles IIRC
Apr 03 13:23:34 <DocScrutinizer> s/host/OTG/.
Apr 03 13:23:34 <Macer> well. i would love to read the law that says "you must use usb charging and have no other method to charge all phones from this day forward"
Apr 03 13:23:50 <DocScrutinizer> there's no such law
Apr 03 13:24:02 <Macer> then.... nokia just said fu
Apr 03 13:24:06 <SpeedEvil> It's currently an agreement.
Apr 03 13:24:15 <DocScrutinizer> you friggin don't even read (or fail to understand) what's been written here 10 min ago
Apr 03 13:24:18 <SpeedEvil> And there are moves afoot to make it mandatory in europe.
Apr 03 13:24:26 <SpeedEvil> Or it may already be mandatory.
Apr 03 13:24:37 <DocScrutinizer> it is
Apr 03 13:24:45 <DocScrutinizer> in china it is since years
Apr 03 13:25:09 <timeless_w7ip> macer: i believe nokia committed to include usb charging
Apr 03 13:25:15 <timeless_w7ip> that's not an exclusive commitment
Apr 03 13:25:16 <DocScrutinizer> but they never forbid other alternative charging methods if they are *additional*
Apr 03 13:25:19 <timeless_w7ip> as in the n8
Apr 03 13:25:21 <Macer> timeless_w7ip: i am sure they did
Apr 03 13:25:32 <timeless_w7ip> nokia legal/pr isn't that stupid
Apr 03 13:25:47 <timeless_w7ip> note that practically speaking it's expensive to include and test both
Apr 03 13:25:59 <timeless_w7ip> plus testing the case where people like <timeless> try to use both at once
Apr 03 13:26:05 <Macer> timeless_w7ip: i am sure it is
Apr 03 13:26:12 <timeless_w7ip> so eventually you'll only have the mandated itemms
Apr 03 13:26:13 <Macer> haha
Apr 03 13:26:14 <timeless_w7ip> s/mm/m/
Apr 03 13:26:14 <infobot> timeless_w7ip meant: so eventually you'll only have the mandated items
Apr 03 13:26:27 <timeless_w7ip> but.... that's not something you promise right away
Apr 03 13:26:29 <timeless_w7ip> why bother
Apr 03 13:28:21 <Macer> too bad i cant hook a usb kb up to my n900
Apr 03 13:28:26 * Macer hides
Apr 03 13:31:34 <DocScrutinizer> too bad you fail on trolling as much as you fail on arguing about design considerations and requirements
Apr 03 13:32:51 <DocScrutinizer> and if you even fail on hooking up a kbd to your N900, that's really TOO bad
Apr 03 13:33:54 <DocScrutinizer> a large crown of noobs that have done exactly that without particular problems is laughing at you
Apr 03 13:34:02 <DocScrutinizer> crowd even
Apr 03 13:35:49 * DocScrutinizer wonders if andridiot usage actually deteriorates wetware that rapidly, or Macer is just practicing trolling - on a rather beginner's level
Apr 03 13:38:04 <Macer> heh
Apr 03 13:39:06 <Macer> i gyhink your blood pressure rises too easily over meaningless arguments. start your own phone manufacturing company and you can design the perfect design all you want
Apr 03 13:39:56 <ZogG> i made meego t-shirt - check it out http://i.imgur.com/bDs9h.png
Apr 03 13:40:02 <Macer> considering the fact that... you get what you get and have to deal with it
Apr 03 13:40:19 <DocScrutinizer> fsckoff, go carve your perfect phone for yourself. I'm not interested in your unqualified provocations
Apr 03 13:40:50 <MohammadAG> float to int doesn't take time right?
Apr 03 13:40:55 <Macer> :) your choice.
Apr 03 13:41:05 <Macer> ZogG: thats awesome
Apr 03 13:41:14 <MohammadAG> <Macer> too bad i cant hook a usb kb up to my n900 <-- can't?
Apr 03 13:41:24 <alterego> MohammadAG: should take one tick
Apr 03 13:41:28 <alterego> Or les
Apr 03 13:41:30 <ZogG> Macer right ah?
Apr 03 13:41:33 <alterego> ~less depending on architecture.
Apr 03 13:41:37 <ZogG> MohammadAG, how is my t-shirt?
Apr 03 13:42:20 <MohammadAG> alterego, ty :)
Apr 03 13:42:24 <Macer> ZogG: a grave with flowers in front of it with the maemo logo on the headstone would be cool too
Apr 03 13:42:33 <MohammadAG> lol ZogG
Apr 03 13:42:50 <MohammadAG> Macer, isn't there an #android channel somewhere? :P
Apr 03 13:42:54 <DocScrutinizer> what an idiot, claiming X is perfect, then when you explain X is far from being perfect, just a requirement due to Y, he's suggesting "go start your own company to do it better" - how utterly missing the point
Apr 03 13:43:48 <Macer> MohammadAG: saying maemo is dead doesnt make me hate it. it makes me miss it.
Apr 03 13:43:57 <Macer> plus.. carman is great
Apr 03 13:44:16 <alterego> Maemo isn't dead until the last person leaves this channel and the last person doesn't post in tmo ..
Apr 03 13:44:29 <alterego> And the last device gets abandoned running maemo by the last uesr.
Apr 03 13:44:31 <alterego> ~user
Apr 03 13:44:31 <infobot> i heard user is currently detached. Talk to this user upon their return. You will now be ignored. [HackFactor Elite 2.0], or a synonym for moron
Apr 03 13:44:35 * SpeedEvil notes there are still a couple of hundred people in #openmoko
Apr 03 13:44:37 <MohammadAG> multiplying a float by 100 should make it an int right?
Apr 03 13:44:43 <Macer> n810 with a windshield mount and the bt obd2
Apr 03 13:44:52 <alterego> MohammadAG: no
Apr 03 13:44:55 <SpeedEvil> Ok - a hundred.
Apr 03 13:44:58 <alterego> MohammadAG: you have to cast it
Apr 03 13:45:16 <alterego> MohammadAG: a floats precision isn't just to two decimal places :P
Apr 03 13:46:06 <MohammadAG> status : 	buffering status as a fraction (0.0 - 1.0).
Apr 03 13:46:15 <Macer> SpeedEvil: how did that openmoko work out?
Apr 03 13:46:21 <MohammadAG> it's not that precise here :P
Apr 03 13:46:28 <alterego> MohammadAG: ah, then multiply by 100 and cast to an int
Apr 03 13:46:39 <alterego> To get integer percent, if that's what you're trying to do.
Apr 03 13:46:54 <MohammadAG> yeah
Apr 03 13:47:00 <MohammadAG> lemme guess, (int) float?
Apr 03 13:47:06 <SpeedEvil> Macer: It comedically worked out pretty much exactly like maemo has worked out in many ways.
Apr 03 13:47:15 <khorben_> (some Gtk+ controls expect float values)
Apr 03 13:47:25 <SpeedEvil> Macer: Though nokia asmittedly did produce a _lot_ more functional software stack.
Apr 03 13:47:32 <MohammadAG> int percentage = (int) buffer*100 <-- i.e like that?
Apr 03 13:47:50 <Macer> SpeedEvil: ah. thought quite a few people got freerunners
Apr 03 13:47:53 <khorben_> int p = (int)(buffer*100); /* is better I think */
Apr 03 13:47:59 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: while the OM one is a lot more open ;-D
Apr 03 13:48:03 <SpeedEvil> But - changing toolkits mid-stream, and back again - delays in hardware, company deciding it'd ratehr do other things than linux phones.
Apr 03 13:48:06 <SpeedEvil> All parallels.
Apr 03 13:48:14 <SpeedEvil> Macer: ~5-10K
Apr 03 13:48:32 <SpeedEvil> Macer: Whereas the n900 probably sold that in the first day or three of preorder.
Apr 03 13:48:54 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: afaik 12k
Apr 03 13:48:56 <Macer> only because of the nokia name
Apr 03 13:49:05 <Macer> ;)
Apr 03 13:49:22 <Macer> n900 did have so much promise tho. it is a shame
Apr 03 13:49:51 <Macer> i sometimes think companies try to reduce fun on their devices on purpose
Apr 03 13:50:11 <kerio> it's because they're idiots
Apr 03 13:50:21 <Macer> because if you are able to keep a phone awesome for 10 years nobody will buy one of your new ones
Apr 03 13:50:26 <Macer> :)
Apr 03 13:50:46 <khorben_> (sony ps3 + linux)
Apr 03 13:50:49 <kerio> if you're able to keep a phone awesome for 10 years but you make even more awesome phones, you'll still sell well
Apr 03 13:50:51 <Macer> the cooperate mentality
Apr 03 13:51:05 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: at least "we" released all we possibly could, enabling 'the community' to continue developing on a proper sw stack, which actually is an ongoing effort
Apr 03 13:51:09 <Macer> kerio: yeah. i think that too
Apr 03 13:51:25 <DocScrutinizer> so in a number of regards OM is more alive than maemo
Apr 03 13:51:28 <kerio> i have no idea what to buy after the n900 as of now :(
Apr 03 13:51:54 <Macer> kerio: hah. get a nokia winmob phone
Apr 03 13:51:55 <khorben_> is it obsolete?
Apr 03 13:52:04 <Macer> and find out how to install meego on it
Apr 03 13:52:11 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: any if there's anything still missing to get published, I'm more than happy to help out
Apr 03 13:52:18 <kerio> khorben_: no, but i always want new shiny toys anyway
Apr 03 13:52:29 <khorben_> ah, that's another issue :p
Apr 03 13:52:48 <kerio> there's no toy that's sufficiently shiny and sufficiently open as of now :(
Apr 03 13:53:44 <khorben_> that's plenty of time to improve OSS support then :)
Apr 03 13:54:17 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: calypso firmware source? :)
Apr 03 13:54:37 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: but indeed - OM is much more open than n900.
Apr 03 13:54:50 <DocScrutinizer> query me, but don't rise hopes too high. Not even OM got more than maybe 10% of it
Apr 03 13:54:56 <DocScrutinizer> and that'S the boring 10%
Apr 03 13:55:07 <SpeedEvil> In practice, I'm not interested really.
Apr 03 13:55:25 <SpeedEvil> I don't have the time or skills to give it the poking it should have, even if I did have it.
Apr 03 13:56:06 <khorben_> osmocom ftw
Apr 03 13:56:20 <DocScrutinizer> all you can poke is AT interpreter and hw tty handshake
Apr 03 13:56:33 <DocScrutinizer> or go osmocom
Apr 03 13:56:40 <SpeedEvil> Yeah. I'm meaning similar to osmocom.
Apr 03 13:56:42 <kerio> why can't we get at least *the source* to rapuyama anyway?
Apr 03 13:56:48 <SpeedEvil> But starting from working code.
Apr 03 13:56:54 <SpeedEvil> kerio: trade secrets.
Apr 03 13:57:37 <DocScrutinizer> osmocom is based on that featurephone calypso FW, so it's more of a working code (in %) than I could share to you from 'official' OM sources
Apr 03 13:58:05 <dangergrrl> how do you get sip in .au?
Apr 03 14:00:30 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Apr 03 14:01:00 <kerio> s/trade secrets/the code is really, really, really awful and kludgy/
Apr 03 14:01:03 <dangergrrl> it was a serious question
Apr 03 14:01:13 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: yeah, cert issues and trade secrets. But even when you get that source it won't help a lot, as you can't mess with it. It's locked like milestone. You can't flash without signing the image with a private key that is in Nokia's steel safe
Apr 03 14:01:36 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: yeah but figuring out what it can do could help
Apr 03 14:01:43 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Apr 03 14:02:01 <DocScrutinizer> you're free to disassemble it. jacekowski did
Apr 03 14:02:12 <kerio> that's not enough source-y
Apr 03 14:02:20 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Apr 03 14:02:46 <DocScrutinizer> you're not enough hacker-y
Apr 03 14:02:52 <kerio> i'm not :(
Apr 03 14:03:30 <jacekowski> i have my plugs and stuff soldered
Apr 03 14:03:51 <dangergrrl> so is there sipgate.co.au or such?
Apr 03 14:04:18 <dangergrrl> oh ti is giving out a cortex a9 protoboard
Apr 03 14:04:21 <dangergrrl> i entered
Apr 03 14:04:45 <dangergrrl> no display
Apr 03 14:04:58 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i can hear something in headphones when pressing buttons
Apr 03 14:05:09 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Apr 03 14:05:10 <dangergrrl> but it's like dual core 1ghz n900 with no screen
Apr 03 14:05:23 <jacekowski> on n95
Apr 03 14:05:32 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Apr 03 14:05:44 <jacekowski> and nothing on n900
Apr 03 14:05:45 <pupnik> i am getting my butt kicked by sdl right now
Apr 03 14:05:48 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: so maybe they actually clock via L/R
Apr 03 14:06:04 <dangergrrl> am i too ugly to get sip even here?
Apr 03 14:06:07 <jacekowski> hmm
Apr 03 14:06:25 <dangergrrl> oh doc you are in germany?
Apr 03 14:06:25 <jacekowski> and when you plug in you can hear something like 1s after plugging in
Apr 03 14:06:31 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Apr 03 14:06:47 <dangergrrl> are you german?
Apr 03 14:07:00 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: that's this obscure "readout of config storage" I bet
Apr 03 14:07:07 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Apr 03 14:07:18 <dangergrrl> i am in fact linuxian
Apr 03 14:07:24 <jacekowski> hmm
Apr 03 14:07:25 <jacekowski> ok
Apr 03 14:07:28 <jacekowski> something is wrong
Apr 03 14:07:36 <jacekowski> when i plug in these headphones using my cable
Apr 03 14:07:41 <jacekowski> it asks what is it
Apr 03 14:07:53 <dangergrrl> can i have yr sip again?
Apr 03 14:08:07 <dangergrrl> i'll even show my video :(
Apr 03 14:10:23 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: any idea why my cable connected breaks things
Apr 03 14:10:45 <DocScrutinizer> you got those Rs?
Apr 03 14:10:48 <trx> diffrent resistance?
Apr 03 14:10:55 <jacekowski> Rs?
Apr 03 14:11:01 <DocScrutinizer> ok, so not
Apr 03 14:11:10 <jacekowski> it's just plain extension cable
Apr 03 14:11:17 <DocScrutinizer> doublecheck wiring
Apr 03 14:11:19 <jacekowski> that's 20cm long
Apr 03 14:11:20 <jacekowski> i did
Apr 03 14:11:29 <DocScrutinizer> :-S
Apr 03 14:11:40 <DocScrutinizer> NFC
Apr 03 14:11:52 <DocScrutinizer> triple check
Apr 03 14:12:03 <DocScrutinizer> use R-meter to check
Apr 03 14:12:27 <jacekowski> yeah
Apr 03 14:12:29 <jacekowski> it works on my pc
Apr 03 14:12:32 <jacekowski> left and right
Apr 03 14:12:44 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, sensing is via mic as well
Apr 03 14:14:33 <jacekowski> well, if left and right is working
Apr 03 14:14:43 <jacekowski> then wires are not swapped
Apr 03 14:20:35 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Apr 03 14:20:52 <DocScrutinizer> but mic might have a short or break
Apr 03 14:22:00 <jacekowski> can you verify that pin 1
Apr 03 14:22:06 <jacekowski> on plug
Apr 03 14:22:06 <DocScrutinizer> actually it's also the contact which is most prone to problems, as receptacles often use a switch on that one, with a 5th pin
Apr 03 14:22:23 <jacekowski> 1,2,3,4
Apr 03 14:22:26 <jacekowski> where 4 is gnd
Apr 03 14:22:37 <DocScrutinizer> nah, I can't. No idea about your plug or receptacle build
Apr 03 14:22:46 <jacekowski> on headset
Apr 03 14:22:48 <jacekowski> hmm
Apr 03 14:22:52 <jacekowski> i can do it myself
Apr 03 14:22:58 <dangergrrl> i have a +1415 sipgate
Apr 03 14:23:16 <DocScrutinizer> on plug, from tip to sleeve: L, R, mic, GND
Apr 03 14:23:31 <jacekowski> yeah
Apr 03 14:23:37 <dangergrrl> but google has me at 7204 32768 1
Apr 03 14:23:42 <dangergrrl> +1
Apr 03 14:24:01 <jacekowski> and 250k on MIC
Apr 03 14:24:02 <DocScrutinizer> dangergrrl: you might want to not spread those details in open channel
Apr 03 14:24:08 <jacekowski> 33.2 on L and R
Apr 03 14:24:24 <dangergrrl> it was the lowest information number they offered
Apr 03 14:24:59 <dangergrrl> docscrutinizer youy may call that anytime even video if possible
Apr 03 14:25:13 <dangergrrl> i promise to be ugly as usual
Apr 03 14:25:49 <dangergrrl> i still have the power of 2
Apr 03 14:26:12 <dangergrrl> nhot as good as 729
Apr 03 14:26:29 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: check with stock N900 hs, and press button -> should short mic to gnd
Apr 03 14:26:38 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i've lost it
Apr 03 14:27:03 <DocScrutinizer> plug in a 3-pin headphone, same effect
Apr 03 14:27:07 <dangergrrl> do the french think the internet is american?
Apr 03 14:27:09 <ZogG> [ebuild     U  ] x11-libs/gtk+-3.0.7 [3.0.6]
Apr 03 14:27:15 <ZogG> haha
Apr 03 14:27:29 <dangergrrl> it is not
Apr 03 14:27:46 <ZogG> dangergrrl internet is soviet
Apr 03 14:27:51 <dangergrrl> well i have met stephen tweedie
Apr 03 14:27:59 <dangergrrl> but not remy card
Apr 03 14:28:10 <dangergrrl> i am soviet
Apr 03 14:28:22 <dangergrrl> daspedonia
Apr 03 14:28:23 <ZogG> no you are not
Apr 03 14:28:44 <ZogG> not all onia is soviet but all soviet is onia
Apr 03 14:28:54 <ZogG> =)
Apr 03 14:29:07 <ZogG> commrade dangergrrl
Apr 03 14:29:19 <dangergrrl> so i can't type cyrls bullshit
Apr 03 14:29:19 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: hmm
Apr 03 14:29:22 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: it's working now
Apr 03 14:29:31 <ZogG> ☭
Apr 03 14:29:47 <DocScrutinizer> \o/
Apr 03 14:29:50 <ZogG> i'm soviet — ftw!!!
Apr 03 14:29:54 <dangergrrl> i am alive and communist
Apr 03 14:30:19 <DocScrutinizer> this proves you're NOT soviet
Apr 03 14:30:23 <dangergrrl> and i want a fag
Apr 03 14:30:31 <dangergrrl> lol
Apr 03 14:30:47 <ZogG> soviets are soviets and not communists but communists are soviets
Apr 03 14:30:54 <ZogG> it's too complicated for you
Apr 03 14:31:20 <khorben_> communists are a sbu-set of soviets?
Apr 03 14:31:31 <dangergrrl> you know if you play the communist manifesto backwards you go to heaven
Apr 03 14:31:54 <ZogG> dangergrrl, КГБ за тобой выехало, разговор окончен!
Apr 03 14:32:15 <dangergrrl> i can not m ake sounds to those letters
Apr 03 14:32:29 <dangergrrl> it is what m ade me not defect
Apr 03 14:33:02 <dangergrrl> but i believe in freedom
Apr 03 14:33:25 <dangergrrl> and that means freedom to copy
Apr 03 14:33:47 <ZogG> фтв г фку 12 кшпре,
Apr 03 14:33:56 <ZogG> and you are 12 right?
Apr 03 14:34:20 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: please probe all three lines L R mic when pressing a button (N95). I guess LR are identical or only one used. So you can probe the used one plus mic in a 2chan scope
Apr 03 14:34:48 <dangergrrl> u r too geeky
Apr 03 14:35:01 * joga enjoys reading geeky stuff here
Apr 03 14:35:08 <DocScrutinizer> timebase range 100ms...0.1ms/sweep
Apr 03 14:35:16 <dangergrrl> i just wanted to lust over your german accent
Apr 03 14:35:33 <joga> wish I had a german accent
Apr 03 14:35:33 <dangergrrl> not like my bike will cross oceans
Apr 03 14:35:35 <jacekowski> i have it
Apr 03 14:35:38 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: I need the timing and levels
Apr 03 14:35:59 <dangergrrl> i need a sip number
Apr 03 14:36:40 <dangergrrl> pls
Apr 03 14:37:17 <Corsac> 17
Apr 03 14:37:22 <dangergrrl> mine is 720 690 7016
Apr 03 14:38:05 <dangergrrl> i want anonymous to call
Apr 03 14:40:01 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: http://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1093&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Apr 03 14:40:22 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: that sort of stuff
Apr 03 14:41:39 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: yeeha, that's starting to become a kickoff
Apr 03 14:41:48 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: is that mic?
Apr 03 14:41:50 <jacekowski> yes
Apr 03 14:42:07 <DocScrutinizer> could you get L+R on a parallel 2nd chan?
Apr 03 14:42:10 <jacekowski> not sure why i can hear it in L
Apr 03 14:42:29 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: it looks like all communication is done using that single channel
Apr 03 14:42:38 <DocScrutinizer> expected
Apr 03 14:42:46 <dangergrrl> it says i may not caal u
Apr 03 14:43:02 <dangergrrl> bad
Apr 03 14:43:05 <dangergrrl> call
Apr 03 14:43:05 <DocScrutinizer> anyway check if there's *any* decent signal on LR, or it's really just noise, please
Apr 03 14:43:41 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: nothing there
Apr 03 14:43:44 <dangergrrl> we had a linux fest here yesterday
Apr 03 14:44:07 <dangergrrl> i may have a ti proroboard
Apr 03 14:44:16 <DocScrutinizer> great, so now we need to separate pull-to-GND by N95 from pull-2-gnd by hs
Apr 03 14:45:08 <DocScrutinizer> easiest way: have a 10R on mic line, and probe both ends with 2 sync chan
Apr 03 14:45:10 <jacekowski> different voltage lefels
Apr 03 14:45:48 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: first pull to gnd is from headset, next block is from phone next from hs and next from phone
Apr 03 14:46:06 <jacekowski> the one from phone is slightly highe
Apr 03 14:46:24 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i can send you csv file with waveform
Apr 03 14:46:25 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, I see
Apr 03 14:46:33 <jacekowski> or
Apr 03 14:46:33 <dangergrrl> uhm
Apr 03 14:46:35 <jacekowski> psdata
Apr 03 14:46:37 <DocScrutinizer> is it zoomable
Apr 03 14:46:39 <DocScrutinizer> ?
Apr 03 14:46:49 <jacekowski> http://www.picotech.com/softdownloader.html
Apr 03 14:46:50 <dangergrrl> you expect my approval
Apr 03 14:46:51 <jacekowski> psdata is
Apr 03 14:46:54 <jacekowski> if you get that
Apr 03 14:46:59 <jacekowski> it can open it
Apr 03 14:47:00 <dangergrrl> non
Apr 03 14:47:40 <DocScrutinizer> dangergrrl: sorry, you lost me, and everybody else here I guess
Apr 03 14:48:41 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: duh, looks like redmond dongled sw
Apr 03 14:48:47 <jacekowski> no
Apr 03 14:48:53 <jacekowski> it's not dongled
Apr 03 14:48:56 <jacekowski> but it's windows
Apr 03 14:49:03 <jacekowski> i can send you csv file
Apr 03 14:49:05 <DocScrutinizer> yeah that's what I meant
Apr 03 14:49:38 <DocScrutinizer> I'd prefer a html like first one, just more spreaded so you can tell apart the single ditches
Apr 03 14:49:50 <jacekowski> do you have oo.o
Apr 03 14:49:51 <jacekowski> or msoffice
Apr 03 14:49:55 <DocScrutinizer> actually read their duration and timing
Apr 03 14:50:05 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Apr 03 14:50:16 <jacekowski> then csv will do
Apr 03 14:50:20 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Apr 03 14:50:28 <DocScrutinizer> if it's accurate enough
Apr 03 14:50:57 <jacekowski> it is
Apr 03 14:51:35 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: please doublecheck the burst from hs isn't clocked by single pulses from device
Apr 03 14:51:56 <jacekowski> i checked
Apr 03 14:51:58 <jacekowski> nothing
Apr 03 14:52:01 <DocScrutinizer> ok :-D
Apr 03 14:52:10 <DocScrutinizer> you're a smart guy
Apr 03 14:52:25 <DocScrutinizer> a pleasure to cooperate
Apr 03 14:52:47 <jacekowski> hmmm
Apr 03 14:52:55 <jacekowski> it looks like it may be just uart
Apr 03 14:53:32 <jacekowski> hmm
Apr 03 14:53:32 <jacekowski> no
Apr 03 14:53:56 <DocScrutinizer> yup. I see a 18 duration coded bits during 10ms
Apr 03 14:54:16 <DocScrutinizer> long low = 1, short=0
Apr 03 14:54:22 <DocScrutinizer> sth along that line
Apr 03 14:54:38 <DocScrutinizer> I'd need a more sharp picture
Apr 03 14:54:45 <DocScrutinizer> or csv
Apr 03 14:56:25 <DocScrutinizer> I need the first burst from phone exactly, to know how to start the session, all that follows is RE'able on N900
Apr 03 14:57:06 <DocScrutinizer> probably watchin plugin negotiation would help as well
Apr 03 14:57:36 <jacekowski> http://maemo.jacekowski.org/headset/n900hs.rar
Apr 03 14:57:58 <jacekowski> one file per waveform
Apr 03 14:58:00 <jacekowski> + other stuff
Apr 03 14:58:14 <jacekowski> so 3*3 are interesting
Apr 03 14:58:16 <jacekowski> 9 in total
Apr 03 14:58:20 <jacekowski> other can be ignored
Apr 03 14:58:29 <jacekowski> it's pushing button, releasing
Apr 03 14:58:31 <DocScrutinizer> ok
Apr 03 14:58:42 <DocScrutinizer> thnaks a lot
Apr 03 14:58:43 <jacekowski> and like a second later after any event there is short burst that means something
Apr 03 14:58:46 <jacekowski> but i'm not sure what
Apr 03 14:59:22 <DocScrutinizer> bye?
Apr 03 14:59:36 <DocScrutinizer> good night?
Apr 03 14:59:56 <alterego> f'ing love ruby :)
Apr 03 15:00:13 <alterego> status_flags.map(&[:to_s, :capitalize]).join(', ')
Apr 03 15:00:43 <alterego> Being able to extend base classes is p. awesome.
Apr 03 15:06:27 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: now we only need to switch on micbias *rapidly* (and in a reasonable manner ;-D), and read out "button-pressed" detector fast enough to reliably sample up to 2000Bd
Apr 03 15:07:28 <jacekowski> hmm
Apr 03 15:07:38 <jacekowski> burst on plug in is too long for me to read
Apr 03 15:08:12 <jacekowski> it's 100ms long
Apr 03 15:09:24 * ShadowJK sometimes gets plug-in burst in ears
Apr 03 15:09:28 <alterego> "tag fags"
Apr 03 15:09:32 <alterego> Still makes me laugh
Apr 03 15:10:17 <jacekowski> hmm, i could read it
Apr 03 15:10:24 <jacekowski> but with different software
Apr 03 15:12:34 <MohammadAG> god mafw is messed up for radio
Apr 03 15:12:42 <MohammadAG> TITLE = artist + album apparently
Apr 03 15:13:57 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: seems like shortest pulses are in the range of 0.1ms
Apr 03 15:14:57 <DocScrutinizer> so oversampling at 20ks/s should do
Apr 03 15:15:43 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski++
Apr 03 15:15:49 <DocScrutinizer> we'd probably need a kernel driver that directly reads the GPIO connected to the comparators
Apr 03 15:16:12 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: yeah, he's the hero of the day, isn't he?
Apr 03 15:17:18 <jacekowski> that negotiation on plug in may not be important
Apr 03 15:17:28 <jacekowski> as long as phone responds something
Apr 03 15:17:42 <jacekowski> headset will send buttons
Apr 03 15:17:42 <DocScrutinizer> I think we can revamp the OMHDQ driver for that
Apr 03 15:18:15 <MohammadAG> and that's radio playback sorted in the OMP, finally
Apr 03 15:18:55 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: yeah. As mentioned before, that obscure driver source for the MCU based hs controller suggested it is 'readout of config storage'
Apr 03 15:20:05 <MohammadAG> 552.0k <-- not too bad
Apr 03 15:21:47 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: so I guess all that is happening at plugin is hs telling "I'm ACME-556, and I have: mic, stereo headphones, and the buttons: vol+, vol-, pause-play, call, ..."
Apr 03 15:22:56 <DocScrutinizer> first of all I need to make sense of the binary code
Apr 03 15:23:12 <jacekowski> no need
Apr 03 15:23:23 <jacekowski> just compare known waveforms with recieved
Apr 03 15:23:32 <DocScrutinizer> not really, we could just pattern-match
Apr 03 15:23:37 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Apr 03 15:23:42 <DocScrutinizer> but ugly :-)
Apr 03 15:23:55 <jacekowski> or we can ask nokia
Apr 03 15:24:00 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Apr 03 15:24:03 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Apr 03 15:24:13 <trx> anyone controled a parallel port on n900?
Apr 03 15:24:23 <DocScrutinizer> err huh?
Apr 03 15:24:24 <trx> (i've got usb to parallel)
Apr 03 15:24:28 <jacekowski> there is no parellal port on n900
Apr 03 15:24:28 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Apr 03 15:24:57 <trx> i need to use ioperm from libc to allow my app to use the ports
Apr 03 15:25:06 <trx> but i dont know how to write to them :/
Apr 03 15:25:07 <DocScrutinizer> well, where's the problem? shouldn't those come with driver source usually?
Apr 03 15:25:35 <trx> it has a driver, i get a /lp0
Apr 03 15:25:41 <trx> thats cool
Apr 03 15:25:41 <DocScrutinizer> aaah
Apr 03 15:25:43 <jacekowski> trx: then google will help you
Apr 03 15:26:01 <pupnik> n900 is missing a centronics port
Apr 03 15:26:08 <trx> jacekowski yeah, i just wanted to check if anyone here worked with it..
Apr 03 15:26:23 <DocScrutinizer> trx: I assume you had a flawlessly working hostmode?
Apr 03 15:26:30 <trx> yeah :)
Apr 03 15:26:34 <trx> ty for that btw
Apr 03 15:26:34 <trx> :)
Apr 03 15:26:37 <DocScrutinizer> yw
Apr 03 15:26:51 <DocScrutinizer> thank you for exploiting it
Apr 03 15:26:56 <trx> yw :)
Apr 03 15:27:12 <trx> im about to make a "robot car"
Apr 03 15:27:23 <DocScrutinizer> cool
Apr 03 15:27:25 <trx> the n900 will control the steppers
Apr 03 15:27:55 <alterego> Anyone got N900 working with mindstorm?
Apr 03 15:28:24 <ShadowJK> ioperm is only relevant for controlling a pc parallell port hooked up to ISA
Apr 03 15:28:49 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_w7ip: (<jacekowski> or we can ask nokia [about the binary codes transfered on MuBu-hs]) could you help with that one?
Apr 03 15:29:47 <ShadowJK> trx, has anyone ever used a usb parallell port to do this?
Apr 03 15:30:02 <trx> not that i know of
Apr 03 15:30:07 <trx> (on arm)
Apr 03 15:30:21 <ShadowJK> well on anything
Apr 03 15:30:32 <DocScrutinizer> somebody did, on Freerunner :-D
Apr 03 15:30:50 <trx> yeah
Apr 03 15:31:03 <trx> i did it on my pc
Apr 03 15:31:04 <DocScrutinizer> not exactly steppers, but a 16 relay card
Apr 03 15:31:19 <trx> relays, steppers, leds
Apr 03 15:31:21 <trx> etc
Apr 03 15:31:29 <trx> via ULN2803
Apr 03 15:31:52 <trx> steppers via L297 -> L298
Apr 03 15:32:00 * DocScrutinizer smiles and says "cheers, laters..."
Apr 03 15:32:23 <pupnik> o/
Apr 03 15:34:57 <trx> i can write a stream to /dev/lp0
Apr 03 15:35:05 <trx> google magic :)
Apr 03 15:42:56 <GAN900> How the hell does a dialer application which makes you miss calls half the time placing the red button in the green spot pass QA?!
Apr 03 15:47:41 <SpeedEvil> Because it conforms to the UI standards.
Apr 03 15:53:22 <halin> I have apache ant in my File Manager, so I set export ANT_HOME=/MyDocs/apache-ant. But when I set the path as export PATH=${PATH}:${ANT_HOME}/bin
Apr 03 15:53:29 <halin> it says ANT_HOME not found
Apr 03 15:56:35 <halin> Am I doing some thing wrong
Apr 03 15:56:38 <halin> ?
Apr 03 16:05:24 <halin> I am doing this on an N900
Apr 03 16:05:45 <halin> but I don't if I have set ANT_HOME correctly
Apr 03 16:07:20 <LOD> hey *
Apr 03 16:22:07 <RST38h> EHLO WRLD
Apr 03 16:23:12 <LOD> yo
Apr 03 16:27:47 <Corsac> RST38h: Reject, host not found (in response to ehlo command)
Apr 03 16:30:46 <LOD> just to say ;) Im a happy user of Maemo with my N900 ; it seems M$ has changed something for Messenger and I can't log in with Pecan ; Pidgin works but I prefer Telepathy ; Im calling for a solution, please
Apr 03 16:31:25 <MohammadAG> hmm, noticed that as well
Apr 03 16:31:26 <SpeedEvil> When did rthe change occur?
Apr 03 16:31:35 <MohammadAG> yesterday or today
Apr 03 16:31:39 <MohammadAG> this weekend
Apr 03 16:31:40 <LOD> 2 or 3 days ago
Apr 03 16:31:45 <LOD> yes
Apr 03 16:32:47 <MohammadAG> should be on pecan's bugtracker I think
Apr 03 16:33:36 <LOD> I was on pecan irc they know but no more reactions
Apr 03 16:34:04 <LOD> ofcourse I imagine they need time
Apr 03 16:36:25 <MohammadAG> meh, MSN works on iOS
Apr 03 16:36:33 <RST38h> Do notice that Nokia has just updated MS Messenger app for Symbian^3 phones
Apr 03 16:37:31 <MohammadAG> oh actually, I do remember there was an update on iOS too
Apr 03 16:37:41 <MohammadAG> it was more than 3 days ago
Apr 03 16:38:00 <LOD> and Nokia is a M$ partner but Windows and Linux :/
Apr 03 16:38:22 <LOD> yes mayba 4 now
Apr 03 16:38:30 <MohammadAG> telepathy-pecan isn't by Nokia
Apr 03 16:38:45 <MohammadAG> there should be a fix soon, it's used on other platforms
Apr 03 16:39:03 <LOD> Felipe is a Nokia employed no ?
Apr 03 16:39:09 <LOD> ok
Apr 03 16:39:28 <MohammadAG> not sure, think so
Apr 03 16:39:31 <LOD> Felipe is Pecan author I think
Apr 03 16:39:34 <MohammadAG> felipe`, ping
Apr 03 16:39:46 <MohammadAG> oh, nvm, wrong person
Apr 03 16:39:58 <MohammadAG> ~seen felipec
Apr 03 16:40:06 <infobot> felipec <~felipec@nat/nokia/x-gbhqdwkayfjabany> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 17d 23h 48m 57s ago, saying: 'qgil: no, I mean the tools... but apparently only Director was killed'.
Apr 03 16:40:07 <LOD> no problem :)
Apr 03 16:40:44 <LOD> yes it is him I think
Apr 03 16:43:09 <MohammadAG> best thing to do would be to watch the bug report
Apr 03 16:43:26 <MohammadAG> if there isn't one, open a new bug
Apr 03 16:43:32 <MohammadAG> (not on bugs.maemo.org)
Apr 03 16:44:04 <LOD> please do that, I imagine I need to register... :s
Apr 03 16:44:17 <MohammadAG> I don't know the bugtracker :P
Apr 03 16:44:40 <LOD> author Felipe Contreras
Apr 03 16:45:01 <LOD> oh there is gmail email
Apr 03 16:47:47 <LOD> I will email him and wait and see ; bye * oh Im an experimented Blender user, so if you need help a day or anther, ring me on #blender-fr (it is french channel but we will find solution to speak ;)
Apr 03 16:48:12 <LOD> Blender, I mean the 3D software ;)
Apr 03 17:10:22 <njain> hey what is the signature of CallStatus() on co.nokia.csd.call.Inc\stance interace??
Apr 03 17:10:36 <njain> no help from google
Apr 03 17:10:38 <njain> :(
Apr 03 17:14:50 <njain>  MohammadAG: hey??
Apr 03 17:28:49 <timeless_w7ip> gan900: hey, do you know if True Lies's Tango is a reference to Never Say Never Again's?
Apr 03 17:42:06 <GAN900> timeless_w7ip, I have absolutely no context for that. :P
Apr 03 18:23:34 <pupnik> you guys @ nokia did a good job with SDL on maemo5 thank you
Apr 03 18:23:45 <pupnik> many annoyances are fixed from the n810 days
Apr 03 18:23:56 <pupnik> saves pupnik time
Apr 03 18:28:27 <halin> I have ant in my File Manger (N900). I set the ant home as: export ANT_HOME=/home/user/MyDocs/apache-ant-1.8.2. But when I use: export PATH=${PATH}:${ANT_HOME}/bin, it says: ANT_HOME not found, PATH not found
Apr 03 18:28:45 <halin> Is this needs to be handled differently for N900
Apr 03 18:28:48 <halin> than in linux
Apr 03 18:28:50 <halin> ?
Apr 03 18:37:23 <pupnik> http://i.imgur.com/1PFug.jpg   fixed the HP/Mana/Grace sdl draw errors :D
Apr 03 18:38:25 <pupnik> happy happy
Apr 03 18:38:27 <halin> I have even checked that MyDocs contains apache-ant-1.8.2
Apr 03 18:38:49 <halin> but still XTerminal connot find it
Apr 03 18:38:55 <SpeedEvil> you cannot run programs on MyDocs.
Apr 03 18:39:07 <SpeedEvil> <ydocs is a FAT filesysrtem, and does not support rexecutable files
Apr 03 18:39:29 <halin> SpeedEvil: right now I am just setting the path
Apr 03 18:39:33 <halin> ANT_HOME
Apr 03 18:39:36 <halin> and PATH
Apr 03 18:39:47 <halin> it is not able to proceed even there
Apr 03 18:40:18 <Sc0rpius> did you actually read what SpeedEvil said?
Apr 03 18:40:32 <Sc0rpius> you cannot have ant under MyDocs
Apr 03 18:41:05 <halin> Sc0rpius: ok, so I should firs copy it to /home/user and then run it ?
Apr 03 18:41:37 <Jaffa> Anyone got anything interesting for http://www.mwkn.net/ this week?
Apr 03 18:41:40 <Sc0rpius> that's what I would od
Apr 03 18:41:43 <Sc0rpius> do
Apr 03 18:49:29 <halin> Sc0rpius: when I do mv /home/user/MyDocs/apache-ant-1.8.2 to /home/user it says "Operation not permitted"
Apr 03 18:51:23 <halin> ls in Xterminal shows this: MyDocs  apache-ant-1.8.2
Apr 03 18:53:39 <halin> But stilll I get the same error that ANT_HOME not found
Apr 03 18:53:50 <halin> Sc0rpius: Am I doing something now ?
Apr 03 18:53:56 <halin> Sc0rpius: Am I doing something wrong now ?
Apr 03 19:00:10 <halin> Sc0rpius: SpeedEvil Can I also not run executables from /user/home
Apr 03 19:00:12 <halin> ?
Apr 03 19:00:20 <halin> */home/user
Apr 03 19:07:33 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: faintly. Brilliant Mr. jacekowski  checked serial protocol of multibutton headsets for DocScrutinizer, so we got a clue now how to finally support those on N900. Nevertheless info from Nokia regarding specific format/codes on that interface much appreciated and asked for
Apr 03 19:08:05 <DocScrutinizer> dunno if that's a mini news or just <yawn>
Apr 03 19:10:11 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: Ta. Any appropriate URL?
Apr 03 19:11:57 <DocScrutinizer> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-04-03.log.html#t2011-04-03T13:19:59  http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-04-03.log.html#t2011-04-03T13:43:07 ff
Apr 03 19:12:12 <DocScrutinizer> http://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1093
Apr 03 19:15:59 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, so it just uses GND?
Apr 03 19:16:23 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: sorry, didn't get that
Apr 03 19:16:41 <MohammadAG> grounding voltage
Apr 03 19:17:38 <DocScrutinizer> yes, it's a wire with a pullup R, plus two IO that swtich between pulling down the wire to GND for sending and listening to voltage for RX
Apr 03 19:18:06 <memouser> hi people, good nights
Apr 03 19:19:10 <memouser> i have one question, when use micro browser and store flash cache with tempy, in large videos more of 15 minuts the browser fail
Apr 03 19:19:22 <memouser> can i change cache for more large videos ?
Apr 03 19:21:57 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: there's also some thread about pushbutton on hs to skip to next track on mediaplayer, but I can't find it. Some of the later posts there by me are to that topic as well
Apr 03 19:22:21 <DocScrutinizer> thread on tmo :-)
Apr 03 19:23:06 <MohammadAG> sec, I have that somewhere
Apr 03 19:23:18 <MohammadAG> it's something about jack bias
Apr 03 19:23:24 <MohammadAG> whatever that is
Apr 03 19:24:41 <MohammadAG> found it
Apr 03 19:24:42 <MohammadAG> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=659580&postcount=80
Apr 03 19:28:51 <SpeedEvil> jack bias is the voltage that is applied to the headset hack to make it able to heatr stuff on hte mic
Apr 03 19:29:02 <SpeedEvil> And as a side-effect - be able to report button presses.
Apr 03 19:30:11 <GAN900> Jaffa, time to start soapboxing for padding?
Apr 03 19:40:23 <joejoe> hi, i have broken touch screen on my n900. It is possible to make backup from terminal?
Apr 03 19:43:22 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=799047#post799047 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=951162#post951162
Apr 03 19:43:28 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: thanks
Apr 03 19:47:06 <joejoe> it is possible to perform backup only from command line?
Apr 03 20:06:11 <DocScrutinizer> joejoe: I think yes, it should. I seem to recall I knew how to do it (some dbus call, or parameters on calling backup app as cmd) as I pondered to do backups automatically via cronjob aka alarmed. Alas I have to confess I never got to really set up things like that and I forgot about details
Apr 03 20:07:16 <DocScrutinizer> s/like that/that way/
Apr 03 20:07:16 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: joejoe: I think yes, it should. I seem to recall I knew how to do it (some dbus call, or parameters on calling backup app as cmd) as I pondered to do backups automatically via cronjob aka alarmed. Alas I have to confess I never got to really set up things...
Apr 03 20:07:41 <N900n00byy> hi i think i did something wrong. my whole menu looks fu**ed up... i see stuff like stab_me_bt where there was ocne just bluetooth connection. what happend ?
Apr 03 20:09:08 <Veggen> N900noobyy: did you deinstall som translations?
Apr 03 20:19:57 <n900n00byy> sorry, had to reconect
Apr 03 20:21:49 <DocScrutinizer> you messed up (moved/deleted/uninstalled) some localization files
Apr 03 20:22:24 <DocScrutinizer> or the LOCALE/LANG setting itself
Apr 03 20:22:49 <DocScrutinizer> first you might try to select another language in settings
Apr 03 20:23:58 <DocScrutinizer> then, if that doesn't help, you probably want to ask timeless_wp7 how to fix the messed up .po files
Apr 03 20:27:01 <n900n00byy> thx DocScrutinizer, but this did not help :( where should be the locale/lang folder ?
Apr 03 20:27:55 <DocScrutinizer> /usr/share/locale
Apr 03 20:29:24 <n900n00byy> lol k, this folder does not exits anymore. dont know why.
Apr 03 20:30:23 <DocScrutinizer> so you're in trouble
Apr 03 20:30:35 <DocScrutinizer> I suggest flashing rootfs
Apr 03 20:31:00 <n900n00byy> damn, looks like
Apr 03 20:31:03 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: bad news
Apr 03 20:31:07 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: it's not going to work
Apr 03 20:31:13 <DocScrutinizer> thnen restore all apps from backup app
Apr 03 20:31:18 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: Vbias on N900 is only 2-2.5V
Apr 03 20:31:28 <DocScrutinizer> :-O
Apr 03 20:31:33 <jacekowski> not 3.3 as on n95
Apr 03 20:31:39 <jacekowski> 2.5 with nothing connected
Apr 03 20:31:40 <DocScrutinizer> and how much does that sh*t need?
Apr 03 20:31:41 <jacekowski> 2V on load
Apr 03 20:31:47 <DocScrutinizer> ugh
Apr 03 20:31:50 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: N95 provides 3.3
Apr 03 20:32:11 <DocScrutinizer> WTF?!
Apr 03 20:32:29 <jacekowski> hmm
Apr 03 20:32:30 <DocScrutinizer> I'll compare N95 and N900 circuit around micbias
Apr 03 20:32:31 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, can  you check a different device?
Apr 03 20:32:33 <jacekowski> wait
Apr 03 20:32:39 <jacekowski> hmm
Apr 03 20:32:44 <jacekowski> emm
Apr 03 20:32:45 <jacekowski> no
Apr 03 20:32:52 <jacekowski> i looked at it incorrectl
Apr 03 20:33:01 <DocScrutinizer> a lot of micbias sources have selectable / configurable voltage
Apr 03 20:33:15 <jacekowski> it is 2.5V on n95
Apr 03 20:33:40 <jacekowski> hmm
Apr 03 20:33:51 <MohammadAG> one question though, the N95 was the first device with TV-out, you sure it's for the buttons and not that?
Apr 03 20:34:02 <DocScrutinizer> but 3.3V would be quite a bit too hig for that OMFG specs
Apr 03 20:34:21 <jacekowski> i think that 3.3V i had came from my pc micbias
Apr 03 20:34:27 <jacekowski> that i was measuring
Apr 03 20:34:27 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: AV doesn't need DC
Apr 03 20:35:23 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, what about its detection?
Apr 03 20:35:34 <MohammadAG> or is that done with the 4th pin?
Apr 03 20:35:37 <jacekowski> that's a good question
Apr 03 20:35:43 <jacekowski> how is that done
Apr 03 20:35:59 <DocScrutinizer> detection is via mic as well, but that'S same thing - micbias
Apr 03 20:36:03 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: do you have a scope?
Apr 03 20:36:20 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: have you looked at files i've sent you
Apr 03 20:36:34 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: and do you know that oo.o can do graphs as well
Apr 03 20:36:35 <SpeedEvil> For these frequencies - audio card line in would work OK
Apr 03 20:37:02 <jacekowski> it's square wave
Apr 03 20:37:11 <jacekowski> and sound card i bet has low pass filter
Apr 03 20:37:12 <DocScrutinizer> well, I always thought I sometimes heard a tiny click when I pressed button of mubu-hs plugged to N900. According to the diagrams it's a real thing
Apr 03 20:37:26 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: yes
Apr 03 20:37:28 <DocScrutinizer> and yes
Apr 03 20:37:39 <MohammadAG> <DocScrutinizer> detection is via mic as well, but that'S same thing - micbias <-- so doesn't it need VBUS?
Apr 03 20:37:48 <DocScrutinizer> you've seen my battery charge graph done in ooo?
Apr 03 20:37:54 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, I'm assuming you mean an oscilloscope, if so, nope, I'm no EE, yet
Apr 03 20:38:03 <DocScrutinizer> VBUS?
Apr 03 20:38:12 <MohammadAG> err, voltage
Apr 03 20:38:16 <DocScrutinizer> VBUS is a USB thing
Apr 03 20:38:22 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: no
Apr 03 20:38:26 <MohammadAG> sorry, got used to hostmode discussions when talking about voltage
Apr 03 20:38:48 <DocScrutinizer> yes,it is using same micbias voltage that's supposed to be 2..2.8V via 2kR
Apr 03 20:39:04 <jacekowski> yeah
Apr 03 20:39:05 <jacekowski> hmm
Apr 03 20:39:24 <jacekowski> i have an idea
Apr 03 20:39:50 <jacekowski> i'll play with my AWG tomorrow
Apr 03 20:39:52 <DocScrutinizer> http://members.omtp.org/Lists/ReqPublications/Attachments/36/OMTP_Local_Connectivity_Wired_Analogue_Audio_v1_0.pdf
Apr 03 20:39:57 <jacekowski> and maybe i can talk to it
Apr 03 20:40:02 <jacekowski> with just that
Apr 03 20:40:03 <DocScrutinizer> AWG?
Apr 03 20:40:11 <jacekowski> arbitrary waveform generator
Apr 03 20:40:15 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Apr 03 20:41:00 <DocScrutinizer> but you'd probably want to duplicate the exact bit pattern that gets sent to hs by device to start session
Apr 03 20:41:14 <DocScrutinizer> it's for sure not only a freq burst
Apr 03 20:41:29 <DocScrutinizer> it's a sort of cmd or at least sync byte
Apr 03 20:41:58 <jacekowski> no need
Apr 03 20:42:03 <DocScrutinizer> ?
Apr 03 20:42:10 <jacekowski> when i unplugged and plugged hs from my extension cable
Apr 03 20:42:19 <DocScrutinizer> yeah?
Apr 03 20:42:20 <jacekowski> it talked to phone for a lot shorter period of time
Apr 03 20:42:31 <jacekowski> than when i plugged it in and out of phone
Apr 03 20:42:49 <jacekowski> so it looks like hs just expects any valid communication
Apr 03 20:42:59 <DocScrutinizer> I meant that initial 8bit(?) burst sent from device to hs after hs said "click"
Apr 03 20:43:46 <jacekowski> yeah
Apr 03 20:44:35 <DocScrutinizer> the burst from ~5..~10 on time in http://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1093
Apr 03 20:44:47 <DocScrutinizer> you need to duplicate that
Apr 03 20:44:52 <DocScrutinizer> I guess
Apr 03 20:45:24 <jacekowski> yeah
Apr 03 20:45:36 <DocScrutinizer> that's why I asked if you think it's exact enough in your diagrams so I can "decode"
Apr 03 20:46:08 <DocScrutinizer> a new diagram with a time base 10 times faster would help a lot
Apr 03 20:46:38 <yourself> I love the N900
Apr 03 20:46:41 <DocScrutinizer> just showing this initial burst, and maybe the leading click
Apr 03 20:47:33 <DocScrutinizer> also comparing first dev-orig burst and hs-answer with second one would be really interesting
Apr 03 20:48:38 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/batlog.txt.odf
Apr 03 20:48:59 <jacekowski> ehh
Apr 03 20:49:02 <jacekowski> use civilised format
Apr 03 20:49:04 <jacekowski> doc or docs
Apr 03 20:49:06 <jacekowski> docx
Apr 03 20:49:17 <jacekowski> not something i can't open
Apr 03 20:49:26 <DocScrutinizer> that's a diagram in ooo
Apr 03 20:57:16 <kwtm> Hi. Need help with usb networking. The wiki on maemo.org is unclear: it says "You can also add the following lines to set the default route correctly "  Does this mean it's optional, or I NEED to add the following lines?  This is referring to "up route del default" and "up route add default gw  192.168.2.14"
Apr 03 20:58:00 <BCMM> kwtm: do you want to talk to the internet, or just to the machine on the other end of the cable?
Apr 03 20:58:26 <BCMM> btw, would you mind linking that wiki page?
Apr 03 20:58:41 <BCMM> i haven't had it set up nicely since i last flashed
Apr 03 20:58:41 <kwtm> BCMM: Just the machine.  I plan to use fish:/ as a file transfer protocol.  (Also being able to ssh into the N900 would be nice when I'm not able to have both machines connect to the same router.)
Apr 03 20:58:52 <DocScrutinizer> depends if some other mechanism did the route setup for you previously. Just check route with `route`, and add the route as suggested if it's not yet there
Apr 03 20:59:03 <kwtm> I guess an easy ... ah, thanks DocScrutinizer
Apr 03 20:59:05 <BCMM> kwtm: you don't need the route then
Apr 03 20:59:16 <BCMM> kwtm: btw, sftp:// should perform better
Apr 03 20:59:31 <BCMM> (provided you've got an openssh server. won't work with dropbear.)
Apr 03 20:59:44 <kwtm> BCMM: I've had bad luck with sftp://, and now all my scripts have standardized on fish://
Apr 03 20:59:53 <BCMM> ok
Apr 03 21:00:02 <BCMM> using what software, btw?
Apr 03 21:00:53 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Ok, $(route) is blank.  So I guess I need to add the route.  But right now "ifconfig usb0" (as root) does not even show an IP address even though it says "RUNNING".  Is this a problem or will the "route" add in the IP address?
Apr 03 21:01:15 <kwtm> BCMM: You mean to ssh?  Well, commandline (OpenSSH), rsync -e ssh, KDE Kparts, etc.
Apr 03 21:01:28 <BCMM> kwtm: i mean, what fish client
Apr 03 21:01:34 <BCMM> ah, kioslaves
Apr 03 21:01:44 <kwtm> Also, what's the difference between "sudo gainroot" and "root"?
Apr 03 21:01:45 <DocScrutinizer> no, you need to have proper IP addr for NIC prior to setting up route
Apr 03 21:01:48 <BCMM> (kparts aren't the bits that handle the transfer protocols)
Apr 03 21:01:55 <kwtm> BCMM: Well, there's also mc (midnight commander)
Apr 03 21:02:14 <BCMM> kwtm: iirc, they've fixed the sftp:// ioslave in the next version of kde
Apr 03 21:02:37 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Yeah, how does that work?  Does my laptop need to have a DHCP server?  I see the default is 192.168.2.15 for the N900 and .14 for the laptop, but does the laptop know that?
Apr 03 21:02:58 <DocScrutinizer> sftp:// works just fine here (not tested via USB but that shouldn't matter)
Apr 03 21:03:10 <kwtm> BCMM: I'm afraid I haven't placed much faith in "the next version of KDE" ... but anyway, fish:// seems to be a good common denominator and all my scripts from KDE3 are using fish.
Apr 03 21:03:29 <DocScrutinizer> no, your desktop doesn't know that magically
Apr 03 21:03:34 <kwtm> (note: I'm using KDE4 ... but only have time to migrate what I need.)
Apr 03 21:03:44 <DocScrutinizer> you should config the NIC with ifconfig
Apr 03 21:04:05 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Are you referring to my laptop or the N900?  ("you should config the NIC with ifconfig")
Apr 03 21:04:23 <DocScrutinizer> btw on your PC you don't need a route set for the USB nic, unless you want to access internet via N900 modem
Apr 03 21:04:31 <kwtm> I mean, my laptop is already assigned a (different , I might add) IP address already.
Apr 03 21:04:48 <BCMM> kwtm: huh?
Apr 03 21:05:23 <DocScrutinizer> I'm using Konqui all the time to access sftp://root@N900
Apr 03 21:05:37 <kwtm> Hmm... you seem to be implying that the laptop's interfaces can each have a different IP address, and I do seem to recall that it can be connected wireless and wired with two different IP addresses.  So the USB connection itself will be assigned another IP address, and I just tell my laptop what it is, and it'll start responding from the USB?
Apr 03 21:05:55 <BCMM> kwtm: i dunno, just saw that it was mentioned in the kde commit digest. don't actually know what they changed.
Apr 03 21:06:14 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: your laptop probably has TWO NICs
Apr 03 21:06:15 <BCMM> kwtm: yeah, different interfaces do typically have different IP addresses
Apr 03 21:06:23 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Glad to hear that sftp:// is working.  Right now it would not be feasible for me to change all my scripts, though, and they seem to be working otherwise.
Apr 03 21:06:29 <DocScrutinizer> one default eth0 or whatever, plus the USB
Apr 03 21:06:42 <BCMM> kwtm: yeah, fish:// will work fine; just perform slightly less well
Apr 03 21:08:14 <BCMM> fish only requires standard utilities; i.e. it's basically just running cat on the server for you
Apr 03 21:08:47 <BCMM> and sftp uses an extension to the ssh protocol especially for this sort of thing
Apr 03 21:09:13 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Apr 03 21:09:20 <DocScrutinizer> ~wtf fish
Apr 03 21:09:21 <infobot> Gee...  I don't know what fish means...
Apr 03 21:09:52 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: the fish:// protocol...
Apr 03 21:10:02 <DocScrutinizer> got that much
Apr 03 21:10:06 <DocScrutinizer> nfc
Apr 03 21:10:20 <DocScrutinizer> smells ;-P
Apr 03 21:10:20 <BCMM> nfc about what?
Apr 03 21:10:38 <DocScrutinizer> never heard about digital fish
Apr 03 21:10:48 <kwtm> Does that mean I need to put "auto usb0 ;iface usb0 inet static ; address 192.168.2.15 ;netmask 255.255.255.0; gateway 192.168.2.14" and all that into the laptop /etc/network/interfaces file, too?
Apr 03 21:10:48 <DocScrutinizer> except for friggin crypted IRC
Apr 03 21:10:50 <BCMM> like i said, it's like SFTP, but without special server-side support
Apr 03 21:11:20 <BCMM> so it's just logging in with ssh and running commands at a shell for you
Apr 03 21:11:36 <kwtm> fish:// is FIle over SsH transfer --basically, it just logs into a shell and then sends files by doing real shell commands like "cat >filename".  Available anywhere you can get a shell prompt.
Apr 03 21:11:40 <DocScrutinizer> kwtm: Too? not exactly. Only there
Apr 03 21:12:33 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: By "too" I mean that the N900 already has this in /etc/network/interfaces.  But my laptop does not.  So this should be reproduced at the laptop end also, and then I reboot?  (or kill 1 or whatever the politically correct thing to do is)
Apr 03 21:12:40 <DocScrutinizer> on N900 it at least should look marginally different
Apr 03 21:13:20 <kwtm> that was copied directly from the N900 file.  How should it be modified for the laptop?  Oh... address is .14 instead of .15.  But what's the "gateway"?
Apr 03 21:14:11 <DocScrutinizer> there's no need for a gateway,unless you expect the far end to forward packets to 3rd party (aka internet) for you
Apr 03 21:14:47 <kwtm> Ohh.. it says "you need to install usb-network-modules".  The very last sentence of the first section. mentioned almost as an afterthought.  I suppose this means it's actually the essential key without which everything else will fail? :)
Apr 03 21:15:30 <DocScrutinizer> but better ask BCMM - I'm not very used to this stuff
Apr 03 21:15:37 <DocScrutinizer> rarely do it
Apr 03 21:15:47 <DocScrutinizer> so I might be rong
Apr 03 21:15:52 <khertan> Hello
Apr 03 21:15:52 <DocScrutinizer> wrong even
Apr 03 21:15:59 <BCMM> kwtm: what distro are you on?
Apr 03 21:16:13 <BCMM> iirc, ubuntu already has USB networking drivers
Apr 03 21:16:22 <khertan> https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/Pygments_1.4-3/ someone understand what is the problem ?
Apr 03 21:17:21 <kwtm> BCMM: Kubuntu 10.04 LTS, but I was hoping I could get this done for WinXP also (that's of secondary importance).
Apr 03 21:17:37 <BCMM> can't remember what USB networking in windows is like
Apr 03 21:18:39 <BCMM> it would be cool if there was some kind of GUI to enable usb networking, configure the interface, and run a DHCP server so that almost any computer, no matter how stupid, would get a working connection...
Apr 03 21:19:03 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: iirc on windows it's called ipconfig, not ifconfig ;-D
Apr 03 21:19:23 <BCMM> khertan: illegal character `P' - are upper-case letters allowed?
Apr 03 21:19:29 <kwtm> Ok, so I'm going to install usb-network-modules, then ... unless someone here says that's not the right thing to do.
Apr 03 21:19:31 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: also, it doesn't work.
Apr 03 21:19:36 <BCMM> other than that, almost the same,
Apr 03 21:19:50 <khertan> BCMM, ? oh ... The name of the package
Apr 03 21:19:52 <khertan> thx ;)
Apr 03 21:20:07 <BCMM> khertan: np
Apr 03 21:20:13 <khertan> BCMM, there is an app nammed Mad Developper (works on unix and seven)
Apr 03 21:20:21 <khertan> ms windows seven
Apr 03 21:20:22 <khertan> à
Apr 03 21:20:23 <khertan> ;à
Apr 03 21:20:26 <khertan> :)
Apr 03 21:20:34 <DocScrutinizer> khertan: also, is that a spece in there?
Apr 03 21:20:38 <BCMM> i've just been using scratchbox and testing with scp
Apr 03 21:20:39 <DocScrutinizer> space*
Apr 03 21:20:58 <khertan> a space ?
Apr 03 21:21:05 <BCMM> ssh connection sharing is cool
Apr 03 21:21:20 <DocScrutinizer> *s_1.4*
Apr 03 21:21:23 <BCMM> (scp is practically instantaneous is it can re-use an existing ssh connection)
Apr 03 21:21:27 <BCMM> s/is/if/
Apr 03 21:21:27 <infobot> BCMM meant: (scp if practically instantaneous is it can re-use an existing ssh connection)
Apr 03 21:21:28 <DocScrutinizer> *s 1.4*
Apr 03 21:21:37 <BCMM> curses.
Apr 03 21:21:45 <BCMM> no i didn't, infobot.
Apr 03 21:22:09 <BCMM> a robot is being sarcastic about my sed.
Apr 03 21:22:30 <khertan> yep the setup file use was the wrong ... so truncated version number too :à
Apr 03 21:22:32 <khertan> :)
Apr 03 21:22:47 <khertan> python-pygments_1.4.0-1 should be better
Apr 03 21:23:05 <kwtm> abc bcd testing infobot
Apr 03 21:23:09 <kwtm> s/c/C/2
Apr 03 21:23:27 <kwtm> Ok, fine, infobot, you can ignore me. :(
Apr 03 21:23:55 <DocScrutinizer> infobot ignores all malformed s/x/y/
Apr 03 21:24:14 <DocScrutinizer> s/igno/xxx/.
Apr 03 21:24:15 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: It's not *malformed*.  It's just *too advanced for infobot*. <grump!>
Apr 03 21:24:26 <DocScrutinizer> s/igno/xxx/
Apr 03 21:24:26 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: s/xxx/xxx/.
Apr 03 21:24:35 <DocScrutinizer> ;-P
Apr 03 21:24:51 <khertan> [extras-builds] [fremantle]: python-pygments 1.4.0-1 OK  << thx BCMM
Apr 03 21:24:51 <khertan> :à
Apr 03 21:25:07 <kwtm> aaa testing infobot
Apr 03 21:25:08 <kwtm> s/a/A/
Apr 03 21:25:09 <khertan> grr i didn't like this n130 netbook keyboard
Apr 03 21:25:09 <infobot> kwtm meant: Aaa testing infobot
Apr 03 21:25:10 <kwtm> s/a/A/
Apr 03 21:25:10 <infobot> kwtm meant: Aaa testing infobot
Apr 03 21:25:19 <khertan> :à
Apr 03 21:25:22 <BCMM> heh, i've never even used builder
Apr 03 21:25:23 <kwtm> Ok, so it's not cumulative.
Apr 03 21:25:28 <khertan> s/à/)/
Apr 03 21:25:28 <infobot> khertan meant: :)
Apr 03 21:25:40 <BCMM> aaa
Apr 03 21:25:49 <BCMM> s/a/A/g
Apr 03 21:25:51 <infobot> BCMM meant: AAA
Apr 03 21:25:57 <BCMM> ah, he does do that.
Apr 03 21:26:06 <kwtm> Yeah, it's just /g or nothing.
Apr 03 21:26:35 <khertan> it s a test ... test
Apr 03 21:26:42 <khertan> s/*/A/g
Apr 03 21:26:46 <kwtm> s/o\(.\)/-\1O\1/
Apr 03 21:26:53 <khertan> s/.*/A/g
Apr 03 21:26:53 <kwtm> Hah!
Apr 03 21:27:09 <khertan> :)
Apr 03 21:28:27 <kwtm> Ok, so ... having usb-network-utilities doesn't seem to help.  Both the laptop and the N900 show usb0 as "UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST" but neither has an IP address.
Apr 03 21:28:52 <kwtm> when BCMM said "already has usb drivers", does that mean (just to confirm) I do NOT need to modify /etc/network/interfaces on my laptop?
Apr 03 21:29:12 <kwtm> Because I am not sure what my next step should be.
Apr 03 21:29:12 <DocScrutinizer> forget it, she's not acting on anything except s/x/y/ and s/x/y/g
Apr 03 21:30:28 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Is there any difference between "root" and "sudo gainroot"?  I used the former to become root and do the "ifconfig usb0 up" command --I don't think it matters but I want to be sure.
Apr 03 21:30:54 <DocScrutinizer> yes, root is a full login, while sudo gainroot simply changes user
Apr 03 21:31:06 <DocScrutinizer> without changing anything regarding env
Apr 03 21:31:29 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Thus anything I can do with "sudo gainroot" I can do with root, right? ... ohhh, so it's possible I changed the environment with "root", then.  I still don't think it matters...
Apr 03 21:31:48 <DocScrutinizer> yes, shouldn't matter
Apr 03 21:32:23 <kwtm> Also, I typed "ifconfig usb0 up" and that worked, but "ifup usb0" gave an error: /usr/lib/avahi/avahi-daemon-check-dns.sh: line 143: diff: not found
Apr 03 21:33:28 <kwtm> It seems to have worked, though, because the second time I typed "ifup usb0" it said "already configured".  Wtheck?  Did someone write a script requiring a command-line utility that's not installed by default and failed to give the correct dependency?
Apr 03 21:35:16 <DocScrutinizer> try a simple ifconfig usb0 addr 56.32.3.775
Apr 03 21:35:37 <DocScrutinizer> when I see avahi I get goosepimples
Apr 03 21:36:03 <DocScrutinizer> my lennart allergy
Apr 03 21:36:29 <kwtm> I can try any arbitrary IP addr, right?  I might as well try something on 192.168.x.x to see if it will connect that way...
Apr 03 21:36:56 <BCMM> kwtm: my advice: don't argue with your router.
Apr 03 21:37:20 <kwtm> BCMM: ?? Not sure what that means.  I have been treating my router with the utmost respect.  How is it related to what we're doing?
Apr 03 21:37:52 <BCMM> i mean, if your router's DHCP server uses 192.168.1.x, play in 192.168.2.x or something
Apr 03 21:38:03 <BCMM> (or 10.0.0.x)
Apr 03 21:38:21 <kwtm> BCMM: Of course.  I put in 192.168.2.16 (one up from the .15 that I've been using.)  My router uses 192.168.1.x
Apr 03 21:38:44 <kwtm> So, it says "ifconfig: bad address 'addr'"  Will check correct syntax of ifconfig command.
Apr 03 21:39:13 <BCMM> (this is because your computer will have a route set up to put traffic for 192.168.1.x on the correct interface)
Apr 03 21:39:24 <BCMM> but other than that, choice of IP address is arbitrary really
Apr 03 21:39:29 <kwtm> I see now that it should have been    ifconfig usb0 56.32.3.775   rather than    ifconfig usb0 addr 56.32.3.775
Apr 03 21:39:49 <BCMM> that's not an IP address.
Apr 03 21:40:35 <kwtm> BCMM: Well, this is what I don't get: so my N900 is told that it is 192.168.2.14 (or whatever) and that the gateway is 192.168.2.15.  But my laptop has no idea of this.  How does it know to respond to my N900 when tne N900 asks for "the computer at 192.168.2.15"?  Does the N900 tell the laptop to set up this way when it first connects via USB?
Apr 03 21:41:03 <kwtm> BCMM: That's the example I was given, so I'm just quoting it word for word.  I am actually using 192.168.2.16 for the IP address in question.
Apr 03 21:41:05 <BCMM> do ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.15 on the laptop?
Apr 03 21:41:39 <BCMM> n900 puts packets on the usb interface, laptop gets them, laptop ignores them unless they're addressed to it
Apr 03 21:41:50 <kwtm> BCMM: Ahh!  So that's the question I had been asking from 30 minutes ago.  Thanks for the answer.
Apr 03 21:42:11 <BCMM> ip networking doesn't really need central organisation...
Apr 03 21:42:27 <BCMM> kwtm: not sure i understand.
Apr 03 21:42:37 <BCMM> i mean, i'm not even sure what i answered
Apr 03 21:43:13 <kwtm> BCMM: You actually didn't answer.  DocScrutinizer gave an answer but I wasn't sure what he meant.  My request for clarification got lost in the jumble when someone else asked for help.  Glad we cleared it up.
Apr 03 21:43:30 <kwtm> Ok, N900 now able to communicate with laptop (at least with ping).  cleared a big hurdle.  Thank you!
Apr 03 21:43:49 <BCMM> i still don't really understand; but if the problem was basic IP networking, there are channels for that
Apr 03 21:44:44 <kwtm> BCMM: To clarify (not that it's relevant any more) I did not realize what to do *to my laptop* to tell it that it should talk to the N900 over USB.  It was not at all obvious from the wiki.
Apr 03 21:45:44 <kwtm> You know, those minor details that people leave out because they've done it so often that they've taken it for granted (and probably installed an autoconfig script) long before they've worked everything out and put things in a wiki so people can follow in their footsteps.
Apr 03 21:45:58 <BCMM> yeah, looks like it's got a lot of distro-specific stuff rather than how to do it manually with ifconfig
Apr 03 21:46:03 <kwtm> Speaking of which, I can't seem to change the wiki even when I log in to t.m.o.
Apr 03 21:46:17 <BCMM> if you're on ubuntu, you can just use the debian instructions though
Apr 03 21:53:15 <kwtm> Success!  Thank you all, especially BCMM.  I am able to ssh into shell from either direction and can fish:// files to/from the N900.  Thanks!
Apr 03 21:53:24 <BCMM> have fun!
Apr 03 21:53:44 <BCMM> fish:// (or sftp://) in konqueror is very smooth
Apr 03 21:54:02 <BCMM> i think i only enable mass storage mode for downloading photos now
Apr 03 21:54:49 <kwtm> Ohhh... logins at wiki.maemo.org and talk.maemo.org are separate!  Ok, got it.
Apr 03 21:59:26 <kwtm> BCMM: I haven't even enabled mass storage mode for some time now.  I just do a periodic rsync over the network.  So when I'm off vacationing and I want to make sure the video of my toddler makes it back to the home server even if the N900 gets stolen, I just call my rsync script. :)
Apr 03 22:00:09 <kwtm> BCMM: Hey, can you interpret this for me?  (I'm editing the wiki now.)  "With this default configuration, the N900 USB interface will have the IP address 192.168.2.15, and the remote end will have the IP address 192.168.2.14."  This is ambiguous: the "remote end" --does that mean (in my case) the laptop?
Apr 03 22:00:27 <BCMM> kwtm: i shoot a crapload of raw (DNG) photographs with fcamera
Apr 03 22:01:10 <BCMM> i mean, i take several shots when i take a photo, and weed out the bad ones on my desktop with the benifit of a proper screen
Apr 03 22:01:11 <kwtm> BCMM: Well, nothing takes up as much memory as a video, I'm afraid ... especially when you record for 5-10 minutes waiting for the little tyke to "do that little cute thing you just did again"
Apr 03 22:01:42 <kwtm> BCMM: Although I agree that you want to transfer those over USB, not some 2.5G cellular connection, if you want to edit them.
Apr 03 22:02:00 <BCMM> i kinda want to investigate how fast a really minimal camera application could start
Apr 03 22:02:10 <BCMM> i mean, if you didn't even need a viewfinder
Apr 03 22:02:26 <BCMM> for stuff like cats and children that might rapidly stop doing something amusing
Apr 03 22:11:07 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: mplayer tv:// takes about 0.8s before showing pictures.
Apr 03 22:16:10 <SpeedEvil> It's more like 0.3s after opening /dev/video0 that it gets the first picture
Apr 03 22:16:17 <SpeedEvil> It spends a while screwing around on dbus
Apr 03 22:51:58 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: the default camera app is always running in the background isn't it?
Apr 03 22:54:31 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: Sort-of.
Apr 03 22:54:46 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: It has a daemon, then forks the actual UI I think
Apr 03 22:55:49 <SpeedEvil> ps|grep cam
Apr 03 23:10:59 <yourself> I seam to remember a way to send all my contacts through bluetooth, amd I wrong?
Apr 03 23:17:56 <DocScrutinizer> should work, yes
Apr 03 23:26:00 <yourself> If I could only just list the contacts with a phone number
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 03 23:55:23 2011
Apr 03 23:56:07 <ArGGu^^> dh_clean: Sorry, but 5 is the highest compatibility level supported by this debhelper.
Apr 03 23:56:26 <ArGGu^^> Trying to build source file and deb in scratchbox
Apr 03 23:57:04 <ArGGu^^> Should add devel or testing repository?
Apr 03 23:57:39 <ArGGu^^> if I need newer version debhelper
Apr 03 23:58:09 <ArGGu^^> or how I can make the compatibility to level 5?
Apr 04 00:01:18 <ArGGu^^> found answer with google just changed the level to five from compat
Apr 04 00:03:43 <ovnicraft> hello the site is down !
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 04 15:14:14 2011
Apr 04 15:25:14 <sobczyk> I launched FM radio app, it hanged and now I can't kill ti even with 'kill -9' is there some way to kill app like that?
Apr 04 15:29:34 <crashanddie_> "it hung"
Apr 04 15:29:52 <crashanddie_> sobczyk, if it doesn't die with kill -9 it means that something is in the way
Apr 04 15:29:59 <crashanddie_> or that you're not killing the right process
Apr 04 15:30:11 <crashanddie_> May I suggest rebooting?
Apr 04 16:05:47 <FIQ> hrm...
Apr 04 16:05:49 <FIQ> interesting
Apr 04 16:06:09 <FIQ> before, when my device decided it was time for me to flash (which it showed by not booting)
Apr 04 16:06:22 <FIQ> i used "chsh" to change shell
Apr 04 16:06:22 <pupnik> lol awesome, scratchbox's VI hilights "FIXME" in code
Apr 04 16:06:32 <FIQ> Maybe that's because it failed?
Apr 04 16:06:43 <FIQ> because er, I've always modified /etc/passwd manually, then it works
Apr 04 16:06:55 <pupnik> i've never tried chsh
Apr 04 16:07:06 <FIQ> I will not attempt "chsh" again, due to what happened for me last time
Apr 04 16:07:13 <pupnik> thanks for the info
Apr 04 16:07:15 <FIQ> even if it's said to be "the right way(tm)"
Apr 04 16:08:03 <pupnik> i change passwords with the 'passwd' command
Apr 04 16:09:12 <FIQ> Maybe it isn't "chsh" that did it, but then there was some nice timing there
Apr 04 16:09:25 <FIQ> but well, modifying /etc/password always worked for me
Apr 04 16:09:29 <FIQ> s/or//
Apr 04 16:09:29 <infobot> FIQ meant: but well, modifying /etc/passwd always worked for me
Apr 04 16:10:32 <FIQ> but tbh, i would like some way to actually see exactly what the problem for booting were
Apr 04 16:10:45 <FIQ> not just a stuck loading screen D:
Apr 04 16:12:16 <Sazpaimon_> finally got xulrunner-dev built for maemo
Apr 04 16:12:55 <troulouliou> hi when using aircrack / kismet i can not see the right end of thez screen in xterm even with font size at 6
Apr 04 16:13:10 <troulouliou> is there any way to have those apps full screen ?
Apr 04 16:16:35 * ShadowJK sighs
Apr 04 16:16:50 <ShadowJK> i regret upgrading laptop to ff4
Apr 04 16:17:07 <ShadowJK> pageup/pagedown works like back/forward.
Apr 04 16:17:22 <ShadowJK> I just want a way to, like, scroll pages :(
Apr 04 16:20:38 <GAN900> Spacebar?
Apr 04 16:24:37 <ShadowJK> also home and end manipulates history rather than page
Apr 04 16:25:28 <ShadowJK> wtf
Apr 04 16:30:43 <GAN900> I hate it when developers decide to hijack keys with existing functionality.
Apr 04 16:30:46 <GAN900> (Google)
Apr 04 16:31:37 <troulouliou> it is crazy my N900 had a battery life of 3 hours
Apr 04 16:31:42 <troulouliou> i almost wante to drop it
Apr 04 16:31:52 <troulouliou> then i  free lots of space in rootfs
Apr 04 16:31:57 <troulouliou> and it is back to normal now
Apr 04 16:32:07 <ShadowJK> this isn't a Sun keyboard with "Back" and "forward" buttons, it says "Page up" and "Page down" on them, I want them to do that :(
Apr 04 16:33:25 <Jaffa> ShadowJK: PgUp/Down work fine for me in FF4 (Win7). And I think they do at home in Ubuntu as well
Apr 04 16:39:27 <ShadowJK> Yeah sometimes they work fine, sometimes not
Apr 04 18:54:09 <tych> Hi, does anyone know if it possible to flash a n900 from a arch linux 64 bit os ?
Apr 04 18:54:50 <jacekowski> it is
Apr 04 18:55:09 <tych> how? it says it int possible
Apr 04 18:55:18 <tych> so how do i go past it
Apr 04 18:56:00 <jacekowski> where does it say it's not possible?
Apr 04 18:59:41 <khertan> tych: just require some ialib32
Apr 04 19:02:15 <tych> where can i get it khertan
Apr 04 19:03:08 <khertan> use your package manager
Apr 04 19:03:12 <khertan> sorry didn't use arch
Apr 04 19:03:25 <khertan> just sure that it s works as i see it working on it
Apr 04 19:06:03 <tych> Cant find any info on that package
Apr 04 19:10:02 <khorben_> search variations of that name
Apr 04 19:10:21 <tych> just gives me a no such file or dir error when i give the command
Apr 04 19:11:03 <tych> well, ive google alot of names but it doesnt give me anything
Apr 04 19:11:12 <tych> would be better if i knew what it was
Apr 04 19:12:07 <khorben_> i386 emulation
Apr 04 19:12:48 <khorben_> compatibility libraries to run 32 bit programs on amd64 platforms
Apr 04 19:12:59 <tych> error while loading shared libraries: libusb-0.1.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Apr 04 19:13:42 <khorben_> you need that one too apparently
Apr 04 19:13:49 <tych> already have it
Apr 04 19:14:00 <khorben_> in 32 bit version?
Apr 04 19:14:05 <troulouliou> does anybody here use xterm and not ossi-xterm ?
Apr 04 19:14:47 <tych> how do i get it in 32 when my system is 64 ?
Apr 04 19:14:58 <khorben_> you install the compatibility libraries to run 32 bit programs on amd64 platforms
Apr 04 19:15:05 <khorben_> including libusb
Apr 04 19:16:53 <tych> libusb-compat ?
Apr 04 19:17:33 <tych>  libusb-compat-0.1 is a replacement for  libusb-0.1. However, instead of being an actual implementation,  libusb-0.1 is more of a compatibility layer (or wrapper) which just  converts libusb-0.1 calls into their libusb-1.0 equivalents.
Apr 04 19:19:53 <tych> it doesnt ask specifically for a 32 bit libusb thats why its weird
Apr 04 19:20:03 <DocScrutinizer> libia32?
Apr 04 19:20:18 <tych> error while loading shared libraries: libusb-0.1.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Apr 04 19:20:30 <tych> when i do
Apr 04 19:20:38 <tych>  sudo ./flasher-3.5 -F ./RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f
Apr 04 19:21:26 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.google.de/search?q=libia
Apr 04 19:21:30 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.google.de/search?q=libia32
Apr 04 19:25:15 <tych> No it is ialib32
Apr 04 19:26:29 <tych> I think it has something to do with it not finding the n900 device with libusb
Apr 04 19:27:42 <tych> I guess Im fucked
Apr 04 19:27:58 <tych> I just need it to reflash so the battery icon will work I have to do something else
Apr 04 19:30:07 <jpinx> dropping the n900 made it crash :(
Apr 04 19:30:32 <tych> I get it
Apr 04 19:30:38 <tych> It doesnt mount in linux
Apr 04 19:30:43 <tych> jpinx: Sheeeeeeeit
Apr 04 19:30:59 <jpinx> I used to regularly drop my nokia 6310 and it never crashed
Apr 04 19:31:35 <jpinx> unless the battery popped out on impact ;)
Apr 04 19:32:50 <jpinx> and the n900 is very fussy about what charger it'll accept
Apr 04 19:35:21 <jpinx> I can't find one without a cable so I only have one piece or wire to carry around
Apr 04 19:35:55 <jpinx> s/or/of
Apr 04 19:37:14 <DocScrutinizer> jpinx: :-o ??
Apr 04 19:38:06 <jpinx> also a car charger without cable
Apr 04 19:38:50 <jpinx> then one cable and 2 plugs covers all eventualities
Apr 04 19:41:41 <DocScrutinizer> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=907080#post907080
Apr 04 19:42:20 <RST38h> Google is tightening its control over Android in an attempt to standardize the platform. Licensees must agree to a 'non-fragmentation clause' that gives Google final approval over operating system changes, allegedly sparking complaints to the Justice Department.
Apr 04 19:42:53 * RST38h feels kinda sorry for Google: whatever these guys do nowadays, it is met with scorn and conspiracy theories
Apr 04 19:44:44 <DocScrutinizer> jpinx: ebay should have an abundance of wallwart USB chargers that come without cable
Apr 04 19:45:36 <DocScrutinizer> you just have to open up and short D+/D- on 95% of those
Apr 04 19:46:16 <DocScrutinizer> to make them work with N900 and CA-101
Apr 04 19:46:54 <DocScrutinizer> (the middle two pins/contacts of the USB-A receptacle, in case you wonder)
Apr 04 19:47:13 <tych> Anyone know how to get the battery icon back?
Apr 04 19:47:24 <tych> The battery icon tray notifier is gone for me
Apr 04 19:47:31 <cehteh`> insert battery :P
Apr 04 19:47:34 <DocScrutinizer> depends on why it vanished :-)
Apr 04 19:47:43 <tych> I have no idea
Apr 04 19:47:47 <tych> It just went away
Apr 04 19:47:58 <tych> I tried copying some battery icon files from a forum threa
Apr 04 19:48:00 <cehteh`> well this is configureable with one of the tweaker programs, forgot which one and its name
Apr 04 19:48:03 <tych> but its still not showing up
Apr 04 19:50:29 <cehteh`> is it just a theme issue .. or maybe unintentionally disabled in the status menu handler
Apr 04 19:50:29 <tych> Ive tried changing themes and even downloading new ones
Apr 04 19:50:29 <tych> Where is the status menu handler ?
Apr 04 19:50:30 <cehteh> well looks rather like some theme issue then
Apr 04 19:50:30 <cehteh> tried resetting to the default theme?
Apr 04 19:50:30 <tych> Yes
Apr 04 19:50:30 <cehteh> (and be patient .. sometimes changing theme is slow)
Apr 04 19:50:30 <cehteh> and then reboot
Apr 04 19:50:30 <DocScrutinizer> check /etc/hildon-desktop/status-menu.plugins and /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-menu/status-area-applet-battery.desktop
Apr 04 19:50:38 <tych> thats the folder i copied all the image files to
Apr 04 19:50:56 <cehteh> do you have any battery status monitor from extras installed? desinstall it
Apr 04 19:51:34 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Apr 04 19:51:43 <DocScrutinizer> then it's clear why it vanished
Apr 04 19:51:54 <tych> ?
Apr 04 19:52:21 <tych> I http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68987 i did this
Apr 04 19:52:24 <tych> didnt work
Apr 04 19:52:30 <tych> copied that too hildon dir
Apr 04 19:53:15 <cehteh> try'n'error fuckup :)
Apr 04 19:53:36 <tych> Alright
Apr 04 19:53:39 <tych> I found the error
Apr 04 19:53:58 <tych> I had installed "advanced power"
Apr 04 19:56:40 <tych> Damn it
Apr 04 19:56:54 <tych> Now i replaced the old battery icons with some shit icons instead
Apr 04 19:57:22 <yacc> Wonder if there is a way to make the media searching service disregard some files?
Apr 04 19:57:23 <DocScrutinizer> tych: forget that, you're messing it up even more
Apr 04 19:57:47 <DocScrutinizer> http://pastebin.com/QU13Sd4y <-is the /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-menu/status-area-applet-battery.desktop
Apr 04 19:59:53 <DocScrutinizer> this is /etc/hildon-desktop/status-menu.plugins ->http://pastebin.com/Q9viguSG
Apr 04 20:00:33 <yacc> I mean, I don't want voice recordings in the media player, nor images that have been included in say a HTML based document, ...
Apr 04 20:00:52 <DocScrutinizer> NB the .desktop points to an EXECUTABE (well, actially a linrary) :: X-Path=status-area-applet-battery.so
Apr 04 20:02:01 <DocScrutinizer> tracker-config, yacc
Apr 04 20:03:19 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: tracker configuration app
Apr 04 20:07:46 <dangergrrl> i am seriously wanting a pandaboard
Apr 04 20:08:59 <dangergrrl> i just don't know if it's fast enough for the augmented reality stuff i want to try to do
Apr 04 20:10:45 <DocScrutinizer> you definitely want something with more grunt, esp at GFX accel
Apr 04 20:11:09 <tych> an executable?
Apr 04 20:11:36 <tych> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon i replaced the icons there
Apr 04 20:11:43 <DocScrutinizer> tych: .so is a library that makes the battery icon display anything usefiul
Apr 04 20:11:54 <DocScrutinizer> that's not what you stated above
Apr 04 20:11:56 <mikki-ku1> hey there guys... can someone tell me how i can tell the n900 to mark all instant messages received as read?
Apr 04 20:12:17 <tych> tych: I http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68987 i did this
Apr 04 20:12:49 <DocScrutinizer> mikki-ku1: NFC, prolly not at all. At least for mail I found no such function :-/
Apr 04 20:12:55 <tych> So, now i need to replace them with the defaults
Apr 04 20:13:07 <mikki-ku1> DocScrutinizer: i meant instant messages such like the ones received via skype
Apr 04 20:13:23 <mikki-ku1> ohhh, wait, i d/c'ed again?! i'll be back in a moment
Apr 04 20:13:26 <DocScrutinizer> tych: if you already know what you need to do, why are you hanging around here asking?
Apr 04 20:14:03 <tych> because i want to get the default icons
Apr 04 20:14:12 <DocScrutinizer> ~flash
Apr 04 20:14:12 <infobot> it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Apr 04 20:14:13 <mikki-kun> and back
Apr 04 20:14:23 <tych> Well
Apr 04 20:14:27 <tych> As I said before
Apr 04 20:14:49 <tych> I tried getting it to work on 64 bit linux os
Apr 04 20:15:22 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, you're obviously a special case
Apr 04 20:15:29 <tych> Flasher doesnt want to work
Apr 04 20:16:33 * DocScrutinizer steps back from PC. Maybe that pill has some strange side effects - been the first one since prescription been of today
Apr 04 20:16:54 <tych> Do that
Apr 04 20:16:59 <tych> You aint helping anyway
Apr 04 20:19:25 <dangergrrl> flasher worked for me from 64 bit linux
Apr 04 20:20:51 <DocScrutinizer> tych: please don't get stupid
Apr 04 20:20:58 <Jade> dangergrrl,
Apr 04 20:22:30 <DocScrutinizer> tych: if you are pissing at people who try to explain things to you (and I know they were to the point and fact were correct)... You'll have a hard time finding help here
Apr 04 20:23:20 <tych> dangergrrl: what did you do?
Apr 04 20:24:06 <DocScrutinizer> o/ dangergrrl
Apr 04 20:24:06 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer: you don't recall a list which shows most of the dbus commands, do you?
Apr 04 20:24:21 <DocScrutinizer> phonecontrol maybe
Apr 04 20:24:54 <DocScrutinizer> for sure not most of, but some
Apr 04 20:25:26 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control
Apr 04 20:25:28 <dangergrrl> x86_64 with multilib, it worked fine didn't have to do anything special
Apr 04 20:26:08 <DocScrutinizer> and http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS
Apr 04 20:26:11 <tych> First, I dont need you to explain to me what a .so file is, second if you go around calling people "special cases" you will have a hard time earning the respect of others
Apr 04 20:29:58 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer: thanks :)
Apr 04 20:30:13 <mikki-kun> and nice move there ^^
Apr 04 20:49:53 <jpinx> DocScrutinizer51: not in Spain ;)
Apr 04 20:50:21 <jpinx> and not all wall-chargers work with the n900
Apr 04 21:06:01 <divansantana> Anyone have an idea on how to hack your phone so you can save to /home/user/* and not MyDocs. The "HildonFileChooserDialog"(I think) only says Nokia N900(/home/user/MyDocs) or Memory Card. This is useful to change after a repartition
Apr 04 21:10:55 <yacc> divansantana, as a hackish solution that comes to mind would be ln -s /home/user /home/user/MyDocs and mounting MyDocs somewhere else?
Apr 04 21:14:10 <divansantana> yacc: thanks,Hmm thats an option.. Otherwise I might umount MyDocs and simply mount /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM as the vfat partition, since I only need vfat for camera app I think
Apr 04 21:14:44 <yacc> divansantana, probably only if you want to access it from a host as a vfat filesystem?
Apr 04 21:15:26 <yacc> I don't think that vfat offers that much over native filesystems. Possible but I don't think overly so.
Apr 04 21:16:17 <divansantana> apparently the camera app doesn't work in ext3
Apr 04 21:16:26 <divansantana> only reason i kept vfat
Apr 04 21:16:39 <divansantana> I don
Apr 04 21:16:52 <divansantana> i dont mind regarding accessing it via usb host
Apr 04 21:17:10 <divansantana> i'll try my suggesting and see how it goes thanks :)
Apr 04 21:18:08 <timeless_w7ip> uacc: supporting cameras and host mode isn't "important"?
Apr 04 21:18:29 <DocScrutinizer51> yacc: divansantana bindmount
Apr 04 21:18:31 * timeless_w7ip thinks those are quite valuable
Apr 04 21:18:41 <yacc> DocScrutinizer51, yeah, that's even better. :)
Apr 04 21:19:06 <yacc> divansantana, what you probably need is MyDocs => many apps are configured to stuff data in there by default, ...
Apr 04 21:19:09 <timeless_w7ip> divansantana: why do you need files in ~ ?
Apr 04 21:19:10 <divansantana> supporting camera is important, host usb connect for me isn't since I copy most data over wifi.
Apr 04 21:19:15 <DocScrutinizer51> symlinks seem not working on FAT
Apr 04 21:19:25 <timeless_w7ip> fat doesn't have a concept of symlinks...
Apr 04 21:20:08 <FIQ|n900> FAT = much compatibility
Apr 04 21:20:11 <divansantana> because I repartitioned my memory so 27G is ext3 /home/user and 2 G is vfat /home/user/MyDocs as per wiki
Apr 04 21:20:14 <FIQ|n900> no other adventages
Apr 04 21:20:14 <yacc> DocScrutinizer51, well, yes, vfat does not have a concept of inodes, the metadata is stored directly in the directory entry too, only one timestamp value with 2-seconds precision, and so on, ...
Apr 04 21:20:44 <timeless_w7ip> fiq: simplicity is an advantage
Apr 04 21:20:47 <divansantana> did this so I can use kontact touch and store all my local mail which doesn't work on vfat and stores mail in ~/.local/share/akonadi
Apr 04 21:21:09 <yacc> DocScrutinizer51, but this is rather stuff that will make apps requiring unix semantics fail on fat fs, but seldom make apps that expect vfat fs to fail on unix fs. ;)
Apr 04 21:21:12 <timeless_w7ip> why won't mail work on vfat?
Apr 04 21:21:17 <FIQ|n900> hmm
Apr 04 21:21:19 <timeless_w7ip> you could make ~/.local a symlink into MyDocs
Apr 04 21:21:29 <FIQ|n900> can't you symlink the other way around at least?
Apr 04 21:21:39 <yacc> DocScrutinizer51, the only thing that comes to mind, vfat is semi-case-insensitive, I have to admit that I have no idea how the Linux vfat.ko handles that, ...
Apr 04 21:21:52 <FIQ|n900> i.e. from ~/foo to ~/MyDocs/foo
Apr 04 21:22:05 <timeless_w7ip> ~/foo to ~/MyDocs/.private/foo
Apr 04 21:22:24 <divansantana> akonadi doesn't start on vfat .
Apr 04 21:22:31 <timeless_w7ip> "start"?
Apr 04 21:22:36 <timeless_w7ip> you don't run programs from vfat
Apr 04 21:22:45 <FIQ|n900> hm
Apr 04 21:22:58 <FIQ|n900> vfat doesn't have executable flags
Apr 04 21:23:10 <divansantana> akonadictl start fails.
Apr 04 21:23:18 <yacc> timeless_w7ip, well, some classical pattern for non-locking safe access to files rely relatively strong on Unix semantics, e.g. everything that fails on NFS might fail on VFAT too.
Apr 04 21:23:28 <FIQ|n900> IIRC, it will be "always on" or "always off" (or maybe always off?)
Apr 04 21:23:46 <yacc> timeless_w7ip, actually that's a question of mount options, but yes, usually it makes no sense.
Apr 04 21:24:11 <yacc> timeless_w7ip, vfat has no concept of access rights (e.g. executable), hence these come from the mount option.
Apr 04 21:25:34 <yacc> Wonder if the RadioTime client can be made to call a different player. Actually a script that inserts the URLs into the normal media player database would be enough, ...
Apr 04 21:25:50 <FIQ|n900> hm
Apr 04 21:26:45 <yacc> RadioTimeToGo is to jumpy with alternative streams. Seems the chances to get a really dead stream url are much better if you jump on problems, instead of just reopening the existing url, ...
Apr 04 21:27:22 <yacc> sigh.
Apr 04 21:29:07 <FIQ|n900> Autocapsing is pretty annoying sometimes (i've it turned off nowdays)
Apr 04 21:30:14 <timeless_w7ip> yacc: why are you telling me this?
Apr 04 21:30:24 <timeless_w7ip> does it sound like i don't  know this?
Apr 04 21:30:28 <timeless_w7ip> does it sound like i care?
Apr 04 21:30:38 <FIQ|n900> There's only one way to (temporary) disable it in a context, that is, by holding shift when typing it (as shift will do lower letters when caps is on). No matter what you do, the setting will not go away (like on usually phones if you temporary want it off).
Apr 04 21:30:42 <yacc> timeless_w7ip, wrong addressing ;)
Apr 04 21:30:48 <timeless_w7ip> yacc: please be more careful
Apr 04 21:31:39 <FIQ|n900> I always ended up writing (random letter), the letter, then removed the letter that weren't supposed to be there
Apr 04 21:31:39 <FIQ|n900> I ended up shutting off it completly
Apr 04 21:31:48 <yacc> FIQ|n900, well, actually, you can also type in 2 letters, and backspace the first one :-P
Apr 04 21:32:08 <FIQ|n900> that was what i meant with <FIQ|n900> I always ended up writing (random letter), the letter, then removed the letter that weren't supposed to be there
Apr 04 21:32:09 <FIQ|n900> :P
Apr 04 21:32:14 <yacc> FIQ|n900, lol, my solution too, I turned it off :)
Apr 04 21:35:59 <DocScrutinizer51> you are aware shift will uncapitalize autocaped first chars?
Apr 04 21:36:16 <FIQ|n900> yes
Apr 04 21:36:20 <FIQ|n900> but only if holded
Apr 04 21:36:30 <FIQ|n900> just pressing will not actually work
Apr 04 21:36:34 <DocScrutinizer51> not that it sucks less when knowing/using this
Apr 04 21:36:39 <FIQ|n900> (as i expected it would)
Apr 04 21:37:13 <FIQ|n900> and that doesn't really make sense
Apr 04 21:37:37 <DocScrutinizer51> I disabled all that shit
Apr 04 21:37:44 <DocScrutinizer51> auto-*
Apr 04 21:37:52 <DocScrutinizer51> eat it!
Apr 04 21:38:25 <FIQ|n900> I went into settings for text input and just unchecked everything except autocapsing
Apr 04 21:38:31 <FIQ|n900> I though it would be useful
Apr 04 21:38:44 <FIQ|n900> but w/o any good way to dodge it, I turned it off as well
Apr 04 21:40:11 <timeless_w7ip> heh
Apr 04 21:40:31 <timeless_w7ip> auto complete isn't bad w/ auto comp editor
Apr 04 21:40:37 <yacc> Well, I guess we are all slightly the hardware keyboard type of user, or we would be using a different device, ...
Apr 04 21:40:48 <timeless_w7ip> yacc: well
Apr 04 21:40:53 <timeless_w7ip> #maemo supports the 770/n800
Apr 04 21:40:59 <timeless_w7ip> both of which don't have hardware keyboards
Apr 04 21:41:13 <yacc> Better a better keyboard than all kinds of magic that bites one in the posterior :)
Apr 04 21:41:17 <FIQ|n900> and also very old
Apr 04 21:41:31 <yacc> timeless_w7ip, well, and I wondered how I could turn off the softkeyboard, ...
Apr 04 21:41:34 <FIQ|n900> and not commonly used anymore
Apr 04 21:41:52 <timeless_w7ip> yacc: there's a checkbox in text input to do that..
Apr 04 21:42:05 <yacc> Good idea ;)
Apr 04 21:43:25 <yacc> timeless_w7ip, :) it has been already disabled, and seems like I do not need to open the keyboard when plugging into USB, ...
Apr 04 21:43:27 <yacc> :)
Apr 04 21:44:09 <DocScrutinizer51> knightstalker: you might want to set up auto-authenticate, or disable nameserv enforce
Apr 04 21:48:08 <yacc> timeless_w7ip, well, autocomplete does not handle my usecase which includes using different languages with different people ;)
Apr 04 21:48:34 <yacc> timeless_w7ip, German/English are similar but not THAT similar ;)
Apr 04 21:49:26 <timeless_w7ip> yacc: dual dictionary?
Apr 04 21:49:37 <yacc> And how do I use that?
Apr 04 21:49:40 <timeless_w7ip> there's a check box for it in text input
Apr 04 21:49:46 <DocScrutinizer51> ctl-space *should# handle this, but seems is buggy
Apr 04 21:50:00 <yacc> Yeah, I know, but there is no documentation how to use it ;)
Apr 04 21:50:35 <timeless_w7ip> in theory it should complete from both ...
Apr 04 21:50:41 <DocScrutinizer51> it's simple: forget it
Apr 04 21:52:26 <RST38h> Ctrl+Space does not change physical keyboard language. It is broken by design.
Apr 04 21:53:07 <RST38h> To make it change things, set second language to Russian, then modify the keymap. Yes, it is the only way [sic]
Apr 04 21:53:13 <DocScrutinizer51> I found friggin autocomplete slows my typing down by factor 3 while causing double the keystrkes, blus migraine
Apr 04 21:53:27 <RST38h> Doc: Switch it off? =)
Apr 04 21:54:24 <DocScrutinizer51> you doon't think I used autocomplete last or this year, do you?
Apr 04 21:55:27 <DocScrutinizer51> In fact it got disabled bfore battery had one full charge cycle :)
Apr 04 21:56:17 <DocScrutinizer51> autocaps took like 6 weeks to die
Apr 04 21:56:35 <RST38h> No, I don't...
Apr 04 21:57:57 <RST38h> Hm, another tmo busybody asking for removing others' "privileges"
Apr 04 22:15:53 <jigrap`> is it possible to force reflashing of my n900?
Apr 04 22:16:06 <jigrap`> i run the flasher and it doesnt do anything it just boots into the phone
Apr 04 22:16:14 <jigrap`> I want to wipe out the install and do a fresh flush
Apr 04 22:20:27 <SpeedEvil> Does the USB port on your phone work normally?
Apr 04 22:22:41 <jigrap`> got it nvm
Apr 04 22:22:44 <jigrap`> yea
Apr 04 22:22:55 <jigrap`> for some reason it was rebooting itself
Apr 04 22:23:01 <jigrap`> it will show the nokia sign
Apr 04 22:23:07 <jigrap`> for a few seconds then reboot itself
Apr 04 22:23:19 <jigrap`> i think i fixed it by taking out the battery
Apr 04 22:23:22 <jigrap`> and letting it sit for a bit
Apr 04 22:23:27 <jigrap`> now it seems to be flashing
Apr 04 22:23:31 <jigrap`> not sure if it will clear everything
Apr 04 22:27:11 <jigrap`> bummer it seems to have flashed it but the contents didnt get deleted
Apr 04 22:27:28 <nid0> what contents
Apr 04 22:27:43 <jigrap`> my customizations and stuff
Apr 04 22:27:47 <jigrap`> and all the apps i installed to it
Apr 04 22:28:03 <nid0> it didnt flash then
Apr 04 22:28:03 <jigrap`> also it still has my pin
Apr 04 22:28:18 <jigrap`> -F fiasco.bin -f -R ?
Apr 04 22:28:53 <ShadowJK> There are two flashing images. One flashes the rootfs, which only contains the operating system, no settings or user files are stored there. The other image flashes the emmc, which contains user settings and files. Pay attention to the instructions: if you flash emmc you must also flash rootfs image
Apr 04 22:29:31 <jigrap`> RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin its the one I used
Apr 04 22:29:32 <Clmbr> halo
Apr 04 22:30:33 <jigrap`> I guess I need the emmc one too
Apr 04 22:31:40 <ShadowJK> I guess you could use a site such as pastebin.com to show us the output of your flashing attempt
Apr 04 22:34:44 <jigrap`> sure, http://pastebin.com/rwmDJMSn
Apr 04 22:35:44 <jigrap`> I'm trying the emmc one now
Apr 04 22:46:41 <jigrap`> the emmc didnt work either :(
Apr 04 22:46:54 <jigrap`> i mean the process completed but it kept my settings
Apr 04 22:49:40 <ShadowJK> very weird
Apr 04 22:49:56 <jigrap`> actually everything is gone but my pin
Apr 04 22:50:08 <jigrap`> i was assuming everything was there because it kept my pin
Apr 04 22:50:09 <jigrap`> my bad
Apr 04 22:50:30 <jigrap`> sorry about this
Apr 04 22:51:36 <ShadowJK> pin is stored in the sim card
Apr 04 22:51:47 <ShadowJK> lock code isn't erasable by flashing
Apr 04 22:52:03 <jigrap`> no sim i think its the lock code
Apr 04 22:52:07 <jigrap`> ahh ok
Apr 05 02:56:19 * GeneralAntilles wishes you could Thank! mailing list posts. http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-April/003847.html
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 05 02:59:58 2011