**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 07 02:59:58 2011
May 07 06:21:59 <Natanaiel> can u open https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/ ? it tells me Access Denied!
May 07 06:28:46 <vldcnst> 403 here, too.
May 07 06:31:15 <Natanaiel> 3 of my catalogues are unavailable for this reason
May 07 06:31:30 <Natanaiel> nokia SSU, nokia applications & OVI
May 07 07:09:59 <pupnik__> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110505/14444714170/homeland-security-demands-mozilla-remove-firefox-extension-that-redirects-seized-domains.shtml   Homeland security is an illegal organization
May 07 08:27:49 <Termana> good morning
May 07 08:41:08 <pupnik__> moo
May 07 09:11:44 <pupnik> Pupnik "Evil Ram" version:  http://www.beastsofwar.com/rama/minirama-scifi/pupnik-evil-ram-version/
May 07 10:01:18 <rcg> pupnik: i got no clue what this is.. looks pretty damn nice though ;)
May 07 10:02:13 <pupnik> that artist has a whole website full of amaaazing miniatures
May 07 10:02:54 <pupnik> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wdkIFdzbrpY/TB4YboSR5gI/AAAAAAAABZw/pEqv0y9eXJY/s1600/Untitled-2.jpg    about the size of a bottle cap
May 07 10:04:44 <rcg> sweet.. must be a hell of a lot of work.. gotta hit the road though... bbl
May 07 10:07:14 <pupnik> yeap
May 07 11:01:49 <Natanaiel> can anybody open https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/ ?
May 07 11:01:59 <Natanaiel> Access denied for me!
May 07 11:02:27 <Natanaiel> I cant's access to Nokia SSU, Nokia applications & OVI
May 07 11:03:07 <Natanaiel> I don't know what's wrong with thease catalogues?!
May 07 11:15:43 <ShadowJK> you always get access denied with the browser
May 07 11:35:06 <Natanaiel> ShadowJK: I always get access denied! with or without browser!
May 07 11:36:18 <SpeedEvil> you're trying to download it how?
May 07 11:37:11 <Natanaiel> thoses catalogues don't upgrade & I always get error 403 for them
May 07 11:41:24 <Natanaiel> they failed to refresh
May 07 11:48:12 <cityLights> hi, I am tring to use gobject.timeout_add in a python script and somehow it all loops
May 07 11:48:15 <cityLights> http://dpaste.com/539788/
May 07 11:48:32 <cityLights> can anyone pls explain what I did wrong?
May 07 11:56:22 <otwieracz> Hello.
May 07 11:57:58 <otwieracz> Is available, to communicate from PC with my n810 through virtual com ports by usb cable?
May 07 12:00:18 <robbiethe1st> otwieracz: Yes, I think. How, I dunno.
May 07 12:02:14 <otwieracz> I want use mapping program basing on NMEA data send from PC.
May 07 12:02:55 <otwieracz> usbserial at n810, I think.
May 07 12:02:59 <otwieracz> But what at Windows?
May 07 12:03:43 <pupnik> http://pupnik.de/photos/Summer_Skin_Beetle_sm.html
May 07 12:23:28 <Venemo> MohammadAG, ping
May 07 12:42:37 <Guest73711> So I'm about to reflash my phone as it's stuck in a reboot loop. I'm wondering what's the latest and greatest that I should flash? The forum has become quite a mess with the 200+ page long threads. How is the community version coming?
May 07 12:42:40 <otwieracz> How to get /dev/ttyUSB0 at n810?
May 07 12:42:56 <Venemo> Guest73711, see
May 07 12:42:57 <Venemo> ~flashing
May 07 12:42:58 <infobot> flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
May 07 12:43:20 <Venemo> after the reflash, you can install the Community SSU, but I'd recommend not to until a recent issue with Qt will be solved
May 07 12:43:45 <Guest73711> Ok, see that's the type of thing I'd have no clue about.
May 07 12:43:49 <Guest73711> Thanks.
May 07 12:46:40 <Guest73711> So PR 1.3 then?
May 07 12:47:31 <Venemo> Guest73711, PR 1.3 Global Combined
May 07 12:48:04 <Guest73711> Venemo: how usable is the community SSU? I'd image a problem with qt is going to cause pretty big dependency issues but assuming that gets resolved how workable is it?
May 07 12:48:27 <Venemo> Guest73711, it is very nice stuff
May 07 12:48:51 <Guest73711> Hmm I don't see "Global Combined" under tablets-dev.nokia.com
May 07 12:48:54 <Venemo> Guest73711, the only problem is that the updated Qt version (4.7.2) has a borked raster graphics system
May 07 12:49:16 <Venemo> Guest73711, RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin 	200174197 	PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2 	Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900
May 07 12:49:28 <Guest73711> Ok, cool.
May 07 12:49:30 <Guest73711> Thanks.
May 07 12:50:03 <Guest73711> And what eMMC should I use?
May 07 12:50:17 <Venemo> latest
May 07 12:50:30 <Venemo> RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin 	262090105 	eMMC content 10.2010.13-2 	Latest Vanilla version of the eMMC content for Nokia N900
May 07 12:51:52 <Guest73711> Ok, any current issues with the Power Kernel?
May 07 12:53:18 <Venemo> if there are, I don't know about 'em
May 07 12:54:25 <Guest73711> Cool, thanks. I know last time I flashed there were issues with fcamera
May 07 12:55:01 <pupnik> hey are there any more dev units for n900?
May 07 12:55:11 <pupnik> i have some people who deserve developer n900s
May 07 12:55:22 <pupnik> X-Fade: Jaffa
May 07 12:59:49 <markinfo> is there Obex server installed in n900?
May 07 13:02:25 <markinfo> I get always in Blueman from my Notebook - Failed to open "obex://[5C:57:C8:77:DD:69]/"
May 07 13:14:31 <Venemo> [14:53] <pupnik> i have some people who deserve developer n900s -> contact qgil
May 07 13:26:24 <pupnik> where can i upload a mp3
May 07 13:27:52 <SpeedEvil> youtube
May 07 13:44:23 <otwieracz> How to enable virtual COM communication between PC and n810 through bluetooth?
May 07 13:48:10 <cityLights> SpeedEvil: do you use python?
May 07 13:48:13 <cityLights> I seek help
May 07 14:12:32 <Jaffa> pupnik: The Council manage the Developer Device Queue, for which there is a wiki page
May 07 14:16:19 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: what devices are you managing there?
May 07 14:16:23 <DocScrutinizer> now?
May 07 14:16:29 <pupnik> Jaffa: BE PART OF THE
May 07 14:17:08 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: DO YOU SUCK THE COCK
May 07 14:17:16 <pupnik> DO YOU SLURP THE JISM
May 07 14:18:13 <pupnik> sorry
May 07 14:18:39 <pupnik> i hate the doofus murderers
May 07 14:19:05 <pupnik> i have so much awesome music to share
May 07 14:20:48 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: you gotta hear my music
May 07 14:20:57 <pupnik> doc|home: you suck israeli cock
May 07 14:21:04 <cityLights> DocScrutinizer: was waiting
May 07 14:21:24 <cityLights> can you pls look at http://dpaste.com/539788/
May 07 14:21:35 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: next one is a kickban
May 07 14:21:41 <pupnik> why
May 07 14:22:12 <pupnik> jew ?
May 07 14:22:16 <DocScrutinizer> this is a worksafe channel
May 07 14:22:28 <pupnik> reality free?
May 07 14:22:30 <cityLights> right, and I need gobject help
May 07 14:22:35 <DocScrutinizer> and insults are not tolerated
May 07 14:23:15 <DocScrutinizer> as I know you for ages now, I'll help you...
May 07 14:23:27 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: i'll discuss things with you
May 07 14:23:57 <DocScrutinizer> ping me if you got sober again
May 07 14:25:49 <cehteh> uhm .. popcorn time?
May 07 14:26:57 <DocScrutinizer> dunno, my backscroll visible is like 30 lines
May 07 14:27:13 <DocScrutinizer> and I'm just looking at it fist time since hours
May 07 14:27:47 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-05-07 16:15:32] <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: DO YOU SUCK THE COCK
May 07 14:28:07 <DocScrutinizer> is the first thing somebody says to me, before I even got my morning coffee
May 07 14:35:04 <lolcat> Why is Android so flashy?
May 07 14:35:22 <lolcat> The N900 is the best communications device I know
May 07 14:35:31 <lolcat> But android looks so SLICK
May 07 14:37:30 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: afaik there are no more devel devices available from Nokia. Quim last time said "this is the last devdev shipping ever" - ask GAN900
May 07 14:38:17 <lolcat> I didn't get a device from Nokia :(
May 07 14:38:24 <cehteh> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/05/07/1215246/Micro-SD-Card-Slot-Abused-As-VGA-Port
May 07 14:38:29 <cehteh> haha .. nice hack
May 07 14:38:51 <DocScrutinizer> lolcat: you're applying for a /nokia/troll cloak, you can't get both
May 07 14:39:40 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: SD card slot is good for a lot of things
May 07 14:39:48 <lolcat> DocScrutinizer: Who is our GC?
May 07 14:39:57 <DocScrutinizer> x-fade
May 07 14:40:01 <cehteh> but in many devices you have only one to fry :P
May 07 14:40:02 <dm8tbr> that's because it's simply SDIO :)
May 07 14:40:19 <dm8tbr> wifi is often connected by SDIO
May 07 14:40:21 <lolcat> X-Fade: May I have a /nokia/opensourcesomething cloack?
May 07 14:41:04 <DocScrutinizer> lolcat: this is maemo, not nokia
May 07 14:41:52 <DocScrutinizer> dm8tbr: exactly
May 07 14:42:33 <lolcat> Is there any issues in buying display N900's?
May 07 14:42:50 <DocScrutinizer> the dummy devices?
May 07 14:43:31 <DocScrutinizer> I think SpeedEvil found they're largely useless, except for the stylus
May 07 14:46:18 <lolcat> No, there is a shop in Norway who has two real N900eds used as display models
May 07 14:46:27 <lolcat> THey use real models so you can try them out in the shop
May 07 14:47:30 <lolcat> They apparently have two
May 07 14:49:02 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: It was a friend - but yes.
May 07 14:49:08 <SpeedEvil> It's 100% custom
May 07 14:50:34 <DocScrutinizer> lolcat: nothing special with these, except I would get me a fresh battery same time I buy any of those
May 07 14:52:24 <cityLights> when I issue this command gobject.timeout_add(wait_duration,callback) does it issue the callback straight away or does it wait first?
May 07 14:52:37 <ShadowJK> I saw display models in a shop. Some cheeky cunt had entered a lock code.
May 07 14:52:43 <DocScrutinizer> lolcat: make sure you get them with original package and accessory, or a decent rabate on price
May 07 14:53:52 <DocScrutinizer> heh, yeah. make sure there's no lockcode as well, or even more substantial down on price
May 07 14:54:51 <psycho_oreos> make sure the accessory works and there's no accessory left out
May 07 14:57:47 <SpeedEvil> Making sure it's not barred or locked too
May 07 14:57:49 <psycho_oreos> the display models I saw were all fake (you can easily tell they had silver case for the screen portion). Also the cheeky assistant installed a few things like frozen-bubble, IME input method and few other things (which screwed up the ability to bring up extra chars)
May 07 14:59:56 <psycho_oreos> for me, I also make sure that I had the hw rev of 2204 not 2101
May 07 15:04:46 <DocScrutinizer> psycho_oreos: that's hard to accomplish
May 07 15:05:16 <DocScrutinizer> as those salesmen have no clue how to determine hw rev
May 07 15:06:00 <psycho_oreos> DocScrutinizer, I'd demo the device prior to purchasing. They allow you do that when I was in HK (though they were rather amused at me tapping away on the console)
May 07 15:06:48 <DocScrutinizer> well, if you can check the device before purchase, then no problem anyway, no?
May 07 15:07:13 <DocScrutinizer> I was thinking along ebay purchase
May 07 15:07:30 <psycho_oreos> not always :) but at least you've ruled most of the potential issues with N900 or better yet if they tried to sell you a fake N900 :D
May 07 15:07:33 <psycho_oreos> ahh those
May 07 15:08:30 <DocScrutinizer> wasn't there an app called healthcheck or sth? ;-D
May 07 15:08:49 <lolcat> DocScrutinizer: Should I buy both?
May 07 15:09:02 <DocScrutinizer> never tested it, but I'd think it ought to be the exactly right app for this purpose
May 07 15:09:37 <DocScrutinizer> lolcat: how do you think I could possibly answer that question?
May 07 15:09:44 <psycho_oreos> ahh yeah I've ran that program before, couldn't understand what was its usefulness when you could pretty much do everything from the console :D
May 07 15:10:23 <lolcat> First time I bougth a display model it was without the carger. So I got a usb cable and some converter thing. It had a tiny scratch in the screen, and the stylus was gone (didn't notice the stylus untill afterwards) but I got it quite cheap.
May 07 15:11:19 <DocScrutinizer> well, I'd like to get working devices that are <100$ anyway
May 07 15:11:31 <psycho_oreos> my second n900 didn't come with nokia A/V cable and headset doesn't work with n900 (it worked with n95-1 however on the contrary)
May 07 15:11:38 <DocScrutinizer> I'd stop eating for a week to afford it
May 07 15:11:52 <lolcat> Les than $100? I think that would be hard
May 07 15:12:06 <psycho_oreos> well with a functional n900 at this rate :)
May 07 15:12:21 <psycho_oreos> let alone running actual maemo OS not symbian dressed up as maemo
May 07 15:12:41 <lolcat> I love the IM and skype integration
May 07 15:12:46 <lolcat> Everything at one place
May 07 15:14:24 <psycho_oreos> I liked it because it was an actual linux powered phone, I didn't really care if it was nokia (and not anymore because of Elop).
May 07 15:18:35 <lolcat> If only they could get the next one with the latest debian. 1gb ram, 1ghz cpu, a better gpu and I can't think of anything else my N900 needs
May 07 15:21:19 <SpeedEvil> Screen taking up a bit more orf the bezel might be nice.
May 07 15:21:26 <psycho_oreos> only time will tell
May 07 15:21:37 <SpeedEvil> Some better solution to usb socket
May 07 15:21:53 <lolcat> We have USB hostmode, isn't that good enough?
May 07 15:22:02 <lolcat> I just have to figure out where it is
May 07 15:22:09 <lolcat> The shop with the two N900's
May 07 15:22:29 <SpeedEvil> I mean mechanical.
May 07 15:22:34 <lolcat> Ahh
May 07 15:22:48 <lolcat> That I agree with. My N900 is dead for the second time because of it
May 07 15:22:53 <lolcat> err, thrid
May 07 15:22:58 <SpeedEvil> The 'easy' solution would be to make a low-profile cable
May 07 15:23:38 <SpeedEvil> http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets-accessories/wired-headsets/nokia-digital-radio-headset-dab/gallery
May 07 15:23:41 <SpeedEvil> They even make one
May 07 15:23:59 <lolcat> That is why I am asking for a refund, to buy a 'new' N900 and have a few hundred extra for new batteries and such. And a new 5 year warrant will be nice (if the price is over $400, less and it will be 2 years).
May 07 15:24:16 <SpeedEvil> 5r year?
May 07 15:24:28 <lolcat> Yep
May 07 15:24:30 <lolcat> By law
May 07 15:24:56 <lolcat> Wich is awesome, since only a fraction of phones lasts longer than 5 years
May 07 15:25:30 <lolcat> They have 2 chances to repair the same error. On the thrid time it appears you can demand a refund / a new device.
May 07 15:26:56 <lolcat> Could I just go into the shop, get a friend to set a lock code, and then demand a huge discount on one of them. THen I buy the other one at $400 so I get the 5 year warranty. Wichever breaks first I return on the 5 year warranty...
May 07 15:27:04 <lolcat> or on the two year probably
May 07 15:27:24 <GAN900> You do realize that government-mandated warranty periods are just factored into the product price, right?
May 07 15:28:35 <lolcat> GAN900: Yes and? Most people don't utilize them. I argue every time, say I work customer support so I need to borrow a smartphone while mine is in for repairs.
May 07 15:28:52 <lolcat> And I can have NO cost in having phones for the rest of my life
May 07 15:29:43 <SpeedEvil> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4215741/Nokia-may-lag-shift-to-dual-core-phones?cid=NL_EETimesDaily
May 07 15:29:48 <SpeedEvil> hahahahahhahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahahah
May 07 15:30:04 <DocScrutinizer> wtf??
May 07 15:30:39 <DocScrutinizer> I *NEED* 8 cores at minimum!!1!111!!!!eleven!!1
May 07 15:30:43 <lolcat> Do maemo support dual-core?
May 07 15:30:53 <cehteh> linux supports smp
May 07 15:30:56 <lolcat> I would think it does if you make a custom kernel
May 07 15:31:01 <lolcat> smp?
May 07 15:31:11 <SpeedEvil> lolcat: In principle if you had a dual-core ARM and kernel
May 07 15:31:15 <DocScrutinizer> ~wiki smp
May 07 15:31:19 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smp (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'SMP' is a three letter abbreviation that can refer to the following: * In computing, Symmetric multiprocessing, the use of multiple CPUs. * In computing, Symbolic Manipulation Program, a computer algebra system and predecessor of Mathematica. * In cryptography, Socialist Millionaire Problem, a protocol for two parties to verify the identity of the remote party through the use of a shared ...
May 07 15:31:42 <lolcat> SpeedEvil: Or just two of the cpu that is in it?
May 07 15:32:25 <SpeedEvil> You'd need arbitrartion logic - the ARM does not support that
May 07 15:32:26 <DocScrutinizer> friggin fools
May 07 15:32:33 <cehteh> which was the phone with one slow very power conserving cpu and one high performance core? asymetric multiprocessing
May 07 15:32:40 <cehteh> i think i like this idea
May 07 15:32:42 <DocScrutinizer> those smp fanboys
May 07 15:32:44 <psycho_oreos> if the kernel can be made SMP you still need apps to take advantage of SMP
May 07 15:32:59 <GAN900> cehteh, sort of pointless with voltage and mhz scaling.
May 07 15:33:08 <cehteh> GAN900: nope its not
May 07 15:33:31 <cehteh> even scaling cant be work as well as a chip explicitly designed to run at slow speed
May 07 15:33:32 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: that's been GTA03-v0.4
May 07 15:33:52 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: i meant some commercial one recently released
May 07 15:34:32 <lolcat> Why does Nokia repeatedly shoot temselves in the leg?
May 07 15:34:44 <cehteh> masochism
May 07 15:34:50 <GAN900> At the extremes, but when do you really need a 50MHz CPU running all the time?
May 07 15:35:33 <cehteh> GAN900: look at the n900 there are plenty of maintenance tasks which wake up the cpu
May 07 15:36:34 <cehteh> handling interrupts, caring for watchdogs, sync filesystem, and such
May 07 15:37:11 <cehteh> and you know that the 125Mhz mode isnt really power conserving at the normal cpu
May 07 15:37:50 <cehteh> but there are arm cores around 100mhz which work *very* power conserving much more than the cortex a7
May 07 15:38:20 <lolcat> Can't they do like the SandyBridge where you turn off the cores that isn't needed? That way dual-core won't use more
May 07 15:39:32 <GAN900> lolcat, they do that and way more
May 07 15:39:54 <GAN900> ARM designs have been doing Sandy Bridge powersaving since forever.
May 07 15:39:54 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: we did even way more - our 2nd aux CPU been a really small one that handles all the peripheral things, and it been clocked at some 20NHz afaik
May 07 15:40:18 <cehteh> nanohertz awesome :)
May 07 15:40:21 <DocScrutinizer> it's called SmartReflex
May 07 15:40:30 <DocScrutinizer> M ;-D
May 07 15:40:54 <DocScrutinizer> idle power consumption in the uW range
May 07 15:41:00 <cehteh> yeah
May 07 15:41:30 <lolcat> oO
May 07 15:41:33 <DocScrutinizer> would've served for a better replacement for LP5523 et al
May 07 15:42:05 <DocScrutinizer> even check WiFi for relevant pkgs to wake main CPU
May 07 15:42:09 <lolcat> How much would it cost to make a new N900? With new debian, and the same features.
May 07 15:42:16 * cehteh wonders what powering up a cpu and switching the frequencies alone costs without doing any work
May 07 15:42:30 <DocScrutinizer> lol, only ~53mio
May 07 15:42:53 <lolcat> ~$53 millions?
May 07 15:43:04 <lolcat> Did they use THAT much on the N900? Oo
May 07 15:43:41 <cehteh> btw any news on the gta04?
May 07 15:44:23 <lolcat> I thougth, steal the motherboard, improve the usb port, change cpu/ram, add a new 4G modem. Get a better battery, and a hdmi port. Then you need software, a dialer, modem drivers, skype, and the maemo layout.
May 07 15:44:34 <lolcat> Oh, and a new GPU
May 07 15:44:56 <lolcat> What license is Maemo?
May 07 15:45:30 <GAN900> A variety
May 07 15:46:06 <cehteh> lolcat: the hardware is very tightly integrated you cant just exchange some parts
May 07 15:46:59 <DocScrutinizer> and you'll NEVER get skype
May 07 15:47:00 <cehteh> cpu, dsp, ram are on one die .. the gpu maybe as well i dont know, DocScrutinizer prolly knows
May 07 15:47:02 * lolcat is frustrated for the lack of announcments regarding N900'eds sequell
May 07 15:47:16 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: is as wee
May 07 15:47:19 <DocScrutinizer> well
May 07 15:47:32 <cehteh> is baseband on another die?
May 07 15:47:39 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 07 15:47:45 <lolcat> 4G isn't really a big deal
May 07 15:47:49 <cehteh> with gps ..
May 07 15:47:58 <DocScrutinizer> RAPUYAMA (+ GAZOO) BB5 modem chipser
May 07 15:48:27 <DocScrutinizer> chipset
May 07 15:49:53 <DocScrutinizer> the main problem is the sourcing
May 07 15:49:57 <GAN900> So, any bets on what the N950 is running?
May 07 15:50:05 <GAN900> If it's not OMAP3630
May 07 15:50:22 <DocScrutinizer> you simply can't buy small amounts of those nice new SOCs
May 07 15:50:49 <lolcat> GAN900: 1GHz dual core, 1GB ram, 60GB ssd, 4G, and mini hdmi
May 07 15:50:49 <cehteh> any bets if the n950 will be withdrawn? :)
May 07 15:50:57 <GAN900> lolcat, good for you.
May 07 15:51:06 <GAN900> cehteh, I wouldn't be surprised at this point.
May 07 15:51:20 <cehteh> hey its nokia ... nothing surprises me
May 07 15:51:26 <lolcat> GAN900: They should have made it like an oQo, they have pretty impressive specs.
May 07 15:51:26 <GAN900> Given the announcements that'd been reversed over the past few years.
May 07 15:51:27 <DocScrutinizer> ask timeless
May 07 15:51:43 <DocScrutinizer> aiui he's no Nokian anymore
May 07 15:51:55 <lolcat> Where can you chat to Nokia people?
May 07 15:52:02 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, oh?
May 07 15:52:02 <DocScrutinizer> nowhere
May 07 15:52:03 <cehteh> is stefan kost still at nokia?
May 07 15:52:31 <GAN900> The MeeGo Devices team is actually making commits to WP7, they just don't realize it.
May 07 15:52:38 <DocScrutinizer> maybe I mixed sth, but I seem to recall sth that's not been a dream
May 07 15:52:53 <GAN900> "Man, this Qt stuff looks a lots like .NET. . . ."
May 07 15:53:21 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: who's Stefan Kost?
May 07 15:53:27 <cehteh> i dont care about nokia .. and my next smartphone will be a free linux again, if not from nokia then from someone else (not sony :P)
May 07 15:53:40 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: gstreamer guy
May 07 15:53:41 <lolcat> Does Nokia own the trademark N950?
May 07 15:53:45 <lolcat> cehteh: Wich one?
May 07 15:54:03 <cehteh> lolcat: i dont plan to buy one soon, my n900 still works
May 07 15:54:18 <cehteh> i decide when the n900 falls apart
May 07 15:54:19 <GAN900> cehteh, that's the problem. Who is the someone else?
May 07 15:54:23 <cehteh> gta05 :)
May 07 15:54:28 <lolcat> I can't wait to get my new N900 back
May 07 15:54:35 <DocScrutinizer> I plan to buy a 3rd N900 to make sure this doesn't change next time
May 07 15:56:25 <DocScrutinizer> I already dropped it one time, and one time dropped, saved from falling into street drain but then stepped on it. Still works but a scary statistic for 18 months usage
May 07 15:57:23 <bekoz> who else makes good free linux phones?
May 07 15:57:33 <cehteh> hehe mine dropped on the stree while biking
May 07 15:57:35 <DocScrutinizer> nobody
May 07 15:57:41 <cehteh> street
May 07 15:57:58 <cehteh> my self build case worked, prevented any damage
May 07 15:58:07 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
May 07 15:58:12 <bekoz> that just bites
May 07 15:58:15 <lolcat> bekoz: N900 is free?
May 07 15:58:19 <DocScrutinizer> photo or it didn't happen
May 07 15:58:23 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: Was thisthat wierrd polycarbonate one?
May 07 15:58:26 <bekoz> yeah I have one
May 07 15:58:30 <cehteh> SpeedEvil: yes
May 07 15:58:31 <bekoz> Just wondering
May 07 15:58:43 <lolcat> I don't know any other real linux phones that are usable
May 07 15:58:47 <bekoz> I couldn't find any others
May 07 15:59:06 <cehteh> for now the n900 is certainly the best
May 07 15:59:10 <SpeedEvil> There are open-source phones - but not linux.
May 07 15:59:17 <bekoz> ti will be a shame if this one ever dies on me and I can't replace it
May 07 15:59:29 <cehteh> there are some expensive niche products
May 07 15:59:37 <SpeedEvil> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/287
May 07 15:59:38 <DocScrutinizer> there are open-source linux phones, but obsolete ;-D
May 07 15:59:43 <SpeedEvil> Open-source phone.
May 07 15:59:47 <SpeedEvil> Not linux though.
May 07 16:00:07 <DocScrutinizer> there are also anti-vendor ports
May 07 16:00:15 <bekoz> yeah but how long will they stay open-source
May 07 16:00:37 <DocScrutinizer> e.g on palm pre, HTC dunnowhat, milestone iirc
May 07 16:00:46 <cehteh> http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/18/road-keeps-their-linux-handy-pc-concept-alive/ is ROAD still alive?
May 07 16:01:08 <DocScrutinizer> duh, it ever been?
May 07 16:01:12 <bekoz> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/287 - LOL SpeedEvil
May 07 16:01:15 <cehteh> yes i seen them
May 07 16:01:19 <bekoz> hard to carry
May 07 16:01:27 <cehteh> theh had real working hardware
May 07 16:01:34 <cehteh> but underpowered and too expensive
May 07 16:01:42 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, for 9999 gold
May 07 16:01:57 <cehteh> on the good side they wanted to make a very rugged phone for workers and so on
May 07 16:01:57 <dangergrrl> i know people who are very happy with their ols openmoko phones
May 07 16:02:01 <dangergrrl> old
May 07 16:02:02 <flux> recently I discussed with friends, that it would be great to have a rotary voip phone
May 07 16:02:07 <cehteh> but i dont know how they progressed
May 07 16:02:08 <dangergrrl> but openmoko is old now
May 07 16:02:12 <flux> you could rotate in the ip digits..
May 07 16:02:20 <DocScrutinizer> obsolete as I said
May 07 16:02:26 <DocScrutinizer> dangergrrl: ^^^
May 07 16:02:33 <DocScrutinizer> ~ DocScrutinizer
May 07 16:02:33 <infobot> hmm... docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko
May 07 16:02:43 <cehteh> if i had expected the gta04 upgrade path some years ago i would have buyed a openmoko instead a n900
May 07 16:03:20 <GAN900> Portrait phones are useless.
May 07 16:03:31 <DocScrutinizer> ack
May 07 16:03:53 <DocScrutinizer> "phones" w/o hw kbd are useless as pocket PC
May 07 16:04:29 <DocScrutinizer> hell, I'd not even like to use a tablet/pad
May 07 16:05:02 <cehteh> http://www.road-gmbh.de/
May 07 16:05:05 <cehteh> aha ... ok
May 07 16:05:20 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 07 16:05:21 <cehteh> another one bites the dust :/
May 07 16:05:33 <DocScrutinizer> try gizmo4you
May 07 16:05:46 <DocScrutinizer> prolly vanished as well
May 07 16:06:09 <dangergrrl> i'm really considering getting a handykey twiddler2 for use with my n900 except i wonder how using usb host mode would effect battery life #1 and #2 when i sit and use the n900 i'm almost always plugged into power so using a usb kb would prevent that
May 07 16:06:20 <cehteh> thats the problem .. you cant do this business as startup with small series
May 07 16:06:28 <cehteh> you can not compete
May 07 16:06:45 <DocScrutinizer> dangergrrl: NAK for #2
May 07 16:06:52 <dangergrrl> i'm already having an issue with my planned use for mine in that the fm transmitter won't work while charging
May 07 16:06:54 <cehteh> so over & out
May 07 16:06:58 <DocScrutinizer> ~powered-hostmode
May 07 16:07:05 <DocScrutinizer> hhmpf
May 07 16:07:12 <DocScrutinizer> ~hostmode-powered
May 07 16:07:13 <infobot> it has been said that hostmode-powered is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203
May 07 16:08:26 <DocScrutinizer> dangergrrl: there's also a workaround for the FMTX-while-charging issue
May 07 16:08:59 <dangergrrl> i was looking at a 'car cassette adaptor' that lists n810 but not n900 as supported but i'm not sure the 3mm plug is the same
May 07 16:09:06 <dangergrrl> oh, i should look that up
May 07 16:09:42 <bekoz> I just use a generic casette adapter
May 07 16:09:44 <DocScrutinizer> dangergrrl: car cassette adapters are plain headsets for all that matters
May 07 16:09:48 <bekoz> works just fine
May 07 16:10:19 <DocScrutinizer> bekoz: ack
May 07 16:10:25 <bekoz> works great actually
May 07 16:11:08 <DocScrutinizer> should work flawlessly with N810 as well as N900
May 07 16:11:37 <DocScrutinizer> as well as any arbitrary "walkman" type device
May 07 16:12:04 <dangergrrl> well i know the n900 provided headset i get mono if i plug it into the pc, seems it should work, maybe my pc headphone jack is a bit off spec
May 07 16:12:19 <dangergrrl> so i thought there was a slight alignment issue
May 07 16:12:25 <DocScrutinizer> N900 is compatible to standard 3pole 3.5mm plugs for headphones
May 07 16:12:55 <dangergrrl> so the $2 cassette adaptor from amazon should be fine
May 07 16:12:59 <dangergrrl> awesome
May 07 16:13:02 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 07 16:13:38 <DocScrutinizer> NB there are also "hacks" to make FMTX work "always"
May 07 16:13:56 <dangergrrl> i'm gonna try one more time with a charger at radio shack because i'm already $20 invested there, nokia branded chargers actually cost less than what i've spent on a charger that fails
May 07 16:14:27 <DocScrutinizer> yup
May 07 16:14:30 <dangergrrl> the fmtx works always hack i would like better
May 07 16:14:51 <DocScrutinizer> ask MohammadAG if we got that in CSSU
May 07 16:15:03 <dangergrrl> i like to keep the n900 in my fairing pocket and carry it inside with me when i stop, less wires == better
May 07 16:15:18 <DocScrutinizer> I think it was of the class that can't easily get deployed via extras(-devel)
May 07 16:15:43 <MohammadAG> nah, it's illegal to distributed patched binaries
May 07 16:15:58 <dangergrrl> oh
May 07 16:16:01 <DocScrutinizer> yay
May 07 16:16:06 <DocScrutinizer> ok then
May 07 16:16:12 <dangergrrl> you have to hack it yourself?
May 07 16:16:19 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: you at least got a link?
May 07 16:16:50 <bekoz> for informational purposes ofcourse
May 07 16:16:57 <bekoz> :)
May 07 16:17:19 <MohammadAG> jacekowski.org
May 07 16:17:28 <DocScrutinizer> \o/
May 07 16:17:32 <DocScrutinizer> hail jacekowski
May 07 16:18:08 <DocScrutinizer> a fsckng genius
May 07 16:18:25 <merlin1991> X-Fade: ping
May 07 16:18:44 <DocScrutinizer> merlin1991: it's weekend
May 07 16:19:00 <merlin1991> there's always a chance :D
May 07 16:19:20 <DocScrutinizer> getting less of a chance month by month
May 07 16:19:59 <DocScrutinizer> I'm actually waiting for several of Nokia infra getting orphaned
May 07 16:20:05 <MohammadAG> lol @ http://www.youtube.com/user/NokiaHomebase
May 07 16:20:39 <DocScrutinizer> buildhosts, IRC...
May 07 16:21:13 <merlin1991> wtf MohammadAG that ad is fail :D
May 07 16:21:33 <dangergrrl> awesome, i will very much use that, thanks again DocScrutinizer and MohammadAG  :)
May 07 16:21:48 <DocScrutinizer> yw
May 07 16:22:08 <dangergrrl> the jacekowski thing does exactly what i wanted
May 07 16:22:21 <DocScrutinizer> spread the word! maemo not dead, just nobody knows how alive it is
May 07 16:22:24 <dangergrrl> other than not turning the fm transmitter off at random times
May 07 16:22:46 <dangergrrl> i'm honest with people when i recommend the n900
May 07 16:22:59 <dangergrrl> maemo support form nokia is dead
May 07 16:23:06 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 07 16:23:10 <dangergrrl> but the community still lives
May 07 16:23:21 <DocScrutinizer> but honestly there's never been too much :-P
May 07 16:23:36 <DocScrutinizer> (maemo support from Nokia)
May 07 16:23:42 <dangergrrl> the community is what i bought the device for
May 07 16:23:48 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
May 07 16:24:37 <DocScrutinizer> and community is pretty much here on IRC
May 07 16:24:38 <dangergrrl> i still don't know if it's just nokia were clueless or there is no way to make money with a device this open
May 07 16:25:02 <DocScrutinizer> history will tell
May 07 16:25:35 <DocScrutinizer> Nokia forgot they are a HARDWARE manufacturer
May 07 16:25:45 <dangergrrl> amazon is back up to asking $550us for n900, i got mine at $350 from amazon in december
May 07 16:25:58 <DocScrutinizer> they tried to play the content provider game
May 07 16:26:05 <DocScrutinizer> and failed epically
May 07 16:26:32 <GAN900> dangergrrl, Nokia is clueless.
May 07 16:27:00 <GAN900> Run by a bunch of arrogant Finnish dinosaurs.
May 07 16:27:03 <RST38h> Moo, ladies and gentlemen
May 07 16:27:09 <dangergrrl> i've been using mappero and really see no reason i would use ovi maps instead except maybe for offline mode
May 07 16:27:20 <RST38h> routing.
May 07 16:27:38 <dangergrrl> i like the google router better
May 07 16:27:45 <DocScrutinizer> if you're going to make money with open phones, you won't play the content provider game to add value. Your added value is good documentation of the HW so your customers are really free
May 07 16:27:52 <dangergrrl> the ovi router has no option for motorcycle routes
May 07 16:28:12 <dangergrrl> google []avoid highways gives nice motorcycle routes
May 07 16:28:34 <DocScrutinizer> customers will even pay more for same hw, when it comes with a warranty for open docs
May 07 16:28:56 <DocScrutinizer> of course not joe average-user
May 07 16:29:02 <dangergrrl> that's my only gripe even going to this is the warantee is basicly useless
May 07 16:29:09 <DocScrutinizer> but those who are concerned about their freedom
May 07 16:29:36 <dangergrrl> if you actually use the n900 you are going to void the warantee in under a day
May 07 16:30:27 <dangergrrl> why even say it has one year warantee when the warantee is void if you use the device the way most users will
May 07 16:30:38 <DocScrutinizer> not really, and also that's not what I referred to by "warranty"
May 07 16:31:11 <DocScrutinizer> voiding warranty starts with OCing
May 07 16:31:20 <DocScrutinizer> not with using whatever sw
May 07 16:31:22 <dangergrrl> the hardware waranee is void if you install the power kernel at all i think even if you don't overclock
May 07 16:31:34 <DocScrutinizer> not really
May 07 16:32:06 <dangergrrl> oh, because i have it installed
May 07 16:32:19 <dangergrrl> but only oc if something doesn't work
May 07 16:32:37 <DocScrutinizer> doesn't really matter unless your failure pattern is OC caused
May 07 16:33:18 <DocScrutinizer> and believe me, EE can tell what's due to OC and what is a clear warranty case
May 07 16:33:18 <dangergrrl> i've had one or two video files that have stalls unless i oc
May 07 16:33:54 <dangergrrl> my copy of lain
May 07 16:34:18 <dangergrrl> which i can't read the subs on without using the ntsc out cable anyhow :)
May 07 16:34:58 <DocScrutinizer> so while Nokia probably can tell you installed the PK, they usually won't mind as long as your warranty case is clearly unrelated
May 07 16:35:43 <dangergrrl> oh
May 07 16:35:48 <dangergrrl> that's fine then
May 07 16:36:29 <Kilroo> Watching some of my friends with their ipads has got me considering both installing nitdroid to my n900 emmc, and shopping around for tablets that can theoretically dual-boot android and meego.
May 07 16:36:39 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, but NB it's easy to kill the device in a number of ways, no matter whether with PK, nitdroid, or plain stock kernel
May 07 16:37:15 <dangergrrl> nothing at all like a hacked psp then if you send a psp in hacked to sony they won't fix it whether the failure is hacking related or not
May 07 16:37:18 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, think they've got EEs in their repair centers? :P
May 07 16:38:01 <nid0> dangergrrl: a consideration is also how much the service centres care - if your device is dead and the moisture strips arent flagged and it hasnt clearly been dropped, chances are theyll just bin it and send you a new one
May 07 16:38:07 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: I think they got instructions at repair center about which falure patterns to send to special care EE department
May 07 16:39:00 <DocScrutinizer> nid0: ^^^ to you as well
May 07 16:39:16 <dangergrrl> sony has a policy to check what firmware is on the device for psp if they can read the flash at all but they actually replaced the water damaged psp i sent them
May 07 16:39:38 <dangergrrl> but sony obviously does not care about your freedom :)
May 07 16:39:54 <psychologe> has someone know how to use dbus or x-termini command close current application?
May 07 16:40:22 <DocScrutinizer> umm
May 07 16:40:28 <DocScrutinizer> good question
May 07 16:40:30 <nusse> hi there
May 07 16:40:48 <cityLights> when I issue this command gobject.timeout_add(wait_duration,callback) does it issue the callback straight away or does it wait first?
May 07 16:40:58 <nusse> should the sdk install work on the latest ubuntu? failes for me, eg creating the sbox group
May 07 16:41:14 <dangergrrl> but if certain thinks are known to burn up when oc too much it should be easy to look for those
May 07 16:41:17 <DocScrutinizer> there's a button "close current task" on powerbutton menu. I think investigating there you could find an answer
May 07 16:41:20 <Kilroo> ...wouldn't a terminal command to close the current application close the...er...terminal?
May 07 16:41:57 <trx> he wants to execute that cmd from the program itself i guess
May 07 16:42:03 <DocScrutinizer> cityLights: of course it will wait first
May 07 16:42:05 <Kilroo> Ah.
May 07 16:42:25 <cityLights> thanks, I need to find my bug then
May 07 16:42:38 <psychologe> i want use "shortcutd" set long press focus key to close current,when current on full screen
May 07 16:42:41 <cityLights> I am three days , trying to understand what is wrong
May 07 16:42:47 <cityLights> the program is not that big
May 07 16:43:11 <dangergrrl> i actually would like to play with meego, can you install it fully to a microsd and boot it with flasher?
May 07 16:43:11 <dangergrrl> i have a 4gb microsd i'm not using
May 07 16:44:01 <dangergrrl> (i know the flasher recovery boot thing is actually a meego kernel)
May 07 16:44:10 <DocScrutinizer> dangergrrl: yes
May 07 16:44:14 <Kilroo> I wish my 32gb microsd weren't fail.
May 07 16:44:24 <psychologe> i want use "shortcutd" set long press focus key to close current application ,when current application on full screen
May 07 16:44:54 <dangergrrl> i should look into that
May 07 16:45:00 <DocScrutinizer> psychologe: check the powerbutton sub-function that does exactly that
May 07 16:45:37 <psychologe> i think it's quicker faster
May 07 16:46:48 <dangergrrl> and also figure out how best to get madde under gentoo/sabayon but i don't know how to rewrap for portage
May 07 16:47:03 <Kilroo> Triple-booting maemo, meego and nitdroid is still a pain in the nether regions, right?
May 07 16:47:16 <RST38h> yes
May 07 16:47:34 <DocScrutinizer> nitdroid *is* a pain on booting
May 07 16:48:13 <Kilroo> Wonder if anything will ever come of that briefly-mentioned idea of making multiboot and uboot play nice together.
May 07 16:48:15 <dangergrrl> nitdroid seems neat but last i checked half the hardware was still unsupported
May 07 16:48:42 <DocScrutinizer> as those lazy ignorant maintainers of nitdroid refuse to care about proper integration into uBoot, and still rely on fsckdup deprecated multiboot that breaks things for everybody else except nitdroid
May 07 16:49:39 <DocScrutinizer> see, meego works with uBoot. Nitdroid could as well, if only they'd care
May 07 16:49:48 <DocScrutinizer> no need for multiboot really
May 07 16:50:16 <DocScrutinizer> multibood is a genius friggin nasty hack
May 07 16:50:33 <Kilroo> I thought at one point I saw a post where someone claimed to have gotten nitdroid to boot with uboot...but there was never any explanation of how so I'm assuming I misunderstood.
May 07 16:51:01 <DocScrutinizer> that's prone to break the whole system and make you have to reflash, on every single boot and even more any update
May 07 16:51:56 <DocScrutinizer> honestly if you're interested in andidiot, get yourself a decent cheap andridiot device
May 07 16:51:56 <dangergrrl> is this the same multiboot that is the standard grub file format or am i thinking of something else?
May 07 16:52:40 <dangergrrl> there seems to be a community thing around the hacked nook color
May 07 16:52:41 <DocScrutinizer> dangergrrl: completely different thing. They FLASH KERNEL on each boot :-O
May 07 16:52:46 <dangergrrl> oh
May 07 16:53:43 <dangergrrl> yes the grub thing is just some tweaks on a standard ELF file iirc
May 07 16:54:11 <Kilroo> Yeah, I was looking at some information about the nook color to see if it could run meego...I have a friend who was about to root hers the last time I saw her. Apparently the answer is no, though. I'm considering an archos.
May 07 16:54:38 <DocScrutinizer> interrupt boot (aka kernel flashing) -> borked, reflash.  Update kernel of maemo ) -> borked, reflash.
May 07 16:55:04 <dangergrrl> oh
May 07 16:55:04 <bekoz> dangergrrl: what is google router?
May 07 16:55:09 <DocScrutinizer> uninstall nitdroid -> borked, reflash.
May 07 16:55:11 <dangergrrl> sounds no fun
May 07 16:55:18 <otwieracz> Is this available to use gcc 4.x in Diablo scratchbox SDK?
May 07 16:55:50 <dangergrrl> google router? no clue...
May 07 16:56:10 <DocScrutinizer>  boot multiboot (aka flash kernel) -> uBoot borked
May 07 16:56:21 <bekoz> weren't yopu talking about it earlier
May 07 16:56:25 <bekoz> ?
May 07 16:56:34 <dangergrrl> i don't think so
May 07 16:56:38 <nid0> you mean their travel routing?
May 07 16:56:54 <dangergrrl> oh
May 07 16:56:55 <dangergrrl> yes
May 07 16:56:55 <bekoz> yeah
May 07 16:56:56 <dangergrrl> that
May 07 16:56:59 <bekoz> maps
May 07 16:57:19 <dangergrrl> you can choose to use the google map router in mappero if you like
May 07 16:57:32 <bekoz> Kewl thanx
May 07 16:57:36 <DocScrutinizer> ergo -> stay AWAY from multiboot, so stay away from nitdroid! Seriously
May 07 16:58:04 <dangergrrl> and if you choose both avoid highways and avoid tolls it gives great cross country routes that avoid superhighways
May 07 16:58:26 <bekoz> that's what I was looking for
May 07 16:58:27 <dangergrrl> ideal for motorcycle rides
May 07 16:58:30 <bekoz> TY
May 07 16:58:34 <DocScrutinizer> ...until those nitdroid fools care to sanitize their boot process so it's in line with what maemo and meego do
May 07 16:58:37 <dangergrrl> i HATE the superhighways in cities
May 07 16:58:43 <dangergrrl> on a bike it's no fun
May 07 16:58:47 <bekoz> same here
May 07 16:58:58 <bekoz> nothing but concrete
May 07 16:59:10 <bekoz> to see
May 07 16:59:28 <dangergrrl> stop and go on a bike is a pain too
May 07 17:00:20 <dangergrrl> coming home from the store here i drive 20-30mph through a neighborhood to avoid stop lights
May 07 17:00:24 <dangergrrl> at least i'm moving
May 07 17:01:58 <dangergrrl> the google router also does bicycle for usa and canada now
May 07 17:02:32 <bekoz> How do you choose Google router ?
May 07 17:02:58 <bekoz> or is it just the maps?
May 07 17:03:29 <RST38h> Proper (not Maemo) Ovi Maps also do that
May 07 17:03:56 <dangergrrl> in mappero
May 07 17:03:56 <RST38h> They are surprisingly good too, tried them on an E7, best GPS I ever had
May 07 17:04:17 <dangergrrl> when you click 'find a route to...' after tapping on the map
May 07 17:04:30 <dangergrrl> the bottom option is 'Router'
May 07 17:04:40 <bekoz> IC
May 07 17:05:29 <dangergrrl> then the button on the right that says options brings up different options for different routers
May 07 17:06:44 <dangergrrl> odd, didn't list public transport, maybe because i picked a highway destination
May 07 17:10:46 <dangergrrl> mappero brings in espeak and says it gives voice notifications but i've never heard it do so
May 07 17:11:05 <DocScrutinizer> I did
May 07 17:11:58 <DocScrutinizer> dangergrrl: seems mappero espeak language is related to kbd-mapping you set
May 07 17:12:24 <DocScrutinizer> and a lot of mappings have no matching espeak vocabulary
May 07 17:15:34 <Venemo_N900> dangergrrl, there was a TMO thread about the developer requesting sound files in various languages
May 07 17:15:34 <Venemo_N900> I'm not sure how far they got at the end
May 07 17:15:35 <Venemo_N900> ~tomorrow
May 07 17:15:36 <infobot> Tomorrow will probably suck too.
May 07 17:16:36 <Venemo_N900> ~tomorrow
May 07 17:16:36 <infobot> Tomorrow will probably suck too.
May 07 17:18:13 <dangergrrl> oh
May 07 17:20:03 <DocScrutinizer> there's quite some bits I think should have gathered in mappero - settings - general rather than hardcoded or linked to such nonsense like kbd mapping
May 07 17:20:15 <dangergrrl> i flashed from world, no idea which keyboard mapping i have, is "C" a valid answer?  echo $LANG says 'en_US' that's a good sign
May 07 17:20:38 <Venemo_N900> it's open source, feel free to contribute
May 07 17:20:46 <dangergrrl> fork?
May 07 17:21:40 <Venemo_N900> I'm talking about contributing, not forking
May 07 17:21:50 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo_N900: I know, but I've not enough clones (aka fork(me) )to contribute to all the projects I have suggestions for
May 07 17:22:11 <Venemo_N900> yo DocScrutinizer
May 07 17:22:36 <bekoz> wish mapero brought in addresses from contacts
May 07 17:23:11 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer, yeah, sometimes I feel like that too - there should be another me who does the hard stuff and then I could just focus on improving the software I have ideas for
May 07 17:24:05 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, saturday night fever ("ooops, need to buy some $food...") - l8r
May 07 17:24:12 <dangergrrl> i must have something misconfigured
May 07 17:24:20 <dangergrrl> i didn't even hear interlingua
May 07 17:24:48 <Venemo_N900> hehe
May 07 17:25:03 <DocScrutinizer> lol @ interlingua. What a funny useless idea
May 07 17:25:12 <DocScrutinizer> bye
May 07 17:28:58 <dangergrrl> i like the idea of lojban but haven't bothered to learn it
May 07 17:29:12 <dangergrrl> it is parsable with lex/yacc though :)
May 07 17:30:10 <dangergrrl> probably a silly idea for a language for humans to speak but i like it (the idea)
May 07 17:30:34 * DocScrutinizer kicks own ass for checking another detail rather than hurrying for shopping
May 07 17:37:35 <DocScrutinizer> general advice regarding maemo-OS: http://paste.debian.net/116294/
May 07 17:37:47 <DocScrutinizer> bye, now for real
May 07 17:42:55 <DocScrutinizer> (also a funny way to hide files)
May 07 17:43:48 <DocScrutinizer> only way to access this -rw-r--r--    1 root     root            0 Jan  2  2009 x   is to umount the MyDocs
May 07 17:44:56 <DocScrutinizer> if espeak/mappero is going to install voice files to MyDocs/* (a sane concept) that this will fail epicaly if N900 is in ass-rage mode
May 07 17:46:28 <derf> Though that'll cause lots of fun if mappero is running while you plug the device into your PC.
May 07 17:47:23 <derf> I enjoyed Android's solution, which was to forcibly unmount the SD card when you do that, causing any programs using a file on it to crash.
May 07 17:48:42 <MohammadAG> my X keeps disappearing every now and then :/
May 07 17:49:08 <DocScrutinizer> derf: that's exactly what maemo in fact does with MyDocs
May 07 17:49:15 <DocScrutinizer> see that pastebin
May 07 17:49:28 <psychologe> mappero has a defect , can't search place used google data
May 07 17:49:32 <DocScrutinizer> nah, not exactly, it fails to umount then
May 07 17:50:15 <derf> Though one thing that can be said for the Android approach: it's easy to find out what programs were using the SD card when you want to mount it on the PC.
May 07 17:51:02 <derf> I've given up and rebooted my N900 before.
May 07 17:58:47 <DocScrutinizer> ok, too late :-S
May 07 18:00:55 <GAN900> Usually tracker is the culprit
May 07 18:02:03 <DocScrutinizer> fuser     -k        kill processes accessing the named file (not on messybox shit)
May 07 18:14:17 <DocScrutinizer> actually I'm missing psmisc-gnu
May 07 18:14:53 <jacekowski> i've seen domebody mentioned me
May 07 18:16:54 <DocScrutinizer> The following packages will be REMOVED:
May 07 18:16:56 <DocScrutinizer>   busybox-symlinks-psmisc cell-modem-ui
May 07 18:16:57 <DocScrutinizer> The following NEW packages will be installed:
May 07 18:16:58 <DocScrutinizer>   psmisc
May 07 18:17:07 <DocScrutinizer> o.O  D-:
May 07 18:17:52 <chx> cell-modem-ui does not sound good
May 07 18:17:59 <DocScrutinizer> indeed
May 07 18:19:02 <DocScrutinizer> and I wonder how the heck installing psmisc can cause cellmodem-ui do vanish
May 07 18:20:13 <ShadowJK> apt-cache show on both psmisc and cell-modem-ui?
May 07 18:20:26 <ShadowJK> It's probably because one is installing debian package in maemo :P
May 07 18:20:29 <DocScrutinizer> just doing that
May 07 18:21:56 <DocScrutinizer> didn't help other than giving me headache
May 07 18:22:42 <DocScrutinizer> apt-cache show cell-modem-ui is unbearable
May 07 18:24:15 <DocScrutinizer> meh
May 07 18:24:35 <DocScrutinizer> *I HATE MESSYBOX*
May 07 18:33:25 <ShadowJK> I can't even see a psmisc
May 07 18:33:53 <DocScrutinizer> actually I can't figure how to use messybox fuser for *anything*
May 07 18:34:32 <renato> hi guys I have already uploaded the pyside package twice to the fremantle builder, I have received the e-mail with the OK log, but the package did not appear on repository
May 07 18:35:28 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# apt-cache policy psmisc
May 07 18:35:38 <DocScrutinizer>   Version table:
May 07 18:35:38 <ShadowJK> cell-modem-ui depends on busybox-symlinks-psmisc, so whoever packaged psmisc fucked up if he didn't put it elsewhere to avoid conflicts, or tested it functional with the system so that you could have had a Replaces
May 07 18:35:39 <DocScrutinizer>      22.6-1 0
May 07 18:35:41 <DocScrutinizer>         500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages
May 07 18:36:35 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-05-07 20:12:39] <DocScrutinizer> actually I'm missing psmisc-gnu
May 07 18:39:25 <DocScrutinizer> renato: are you maintainer of pyside pkg?
May 07 18:42:08 <kwtm> quick question: it says PR 1337 version 7 has "Landscape orientation lock".  Does this include "Portrait orientation lock"?  If not, does a subsequent version have it?  (I am at v6.5, trying not to upgrade too quickly, in order to avoid usability bugs)
May 07 18:42:42 <DocScrutinizer> my 7 doesn't have portait lock
May 07 18:42:52 <Jaffa> kwtm: THere is no portrait orientation lock yet, no.
May 07 18:43:04 <Jaffa> kwtm: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog is accurate and up-to-date
May 07 18:43:08 <DocScrutinizer> just this friggin useless icon in status bar when landscape lock is set
May 07 18:43:45 <kwtm> Ok, thanks.  Wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand.
May 07 18:44:43 <DocScrutinizer> I'd actually love to keep things with portrait like they were in maemo stock
May 07 18:45:08 <DocScrutinizer> well, I know I'm not exactly mainstream with this notion
May 07 18:45:34 <kwtm> Wait, so "this friggin useless icon in status bar when landscape lock is set" means that when I rotate from portrait to landscape, it will rotate (since it's unlocked) into landscape mode, whereupon it locks since it is now landscape-locked?  That would actually be useful to me.
May 07 18:46:30 <DocScrutinizer> sorry you lost me
May 07 18:46:49 * Cor-Ai finds DocScrutinizer in the kitchen
May 07 18:47:17 <DocScrutinizer> good idea indeed
May 07 18:49:54 <kwtm> Jaffa: WHen you say that wiki "is accurate and up-to-date", it still doesn't necessarily tell the whole story, including about bugs.  I notice, in version 8, a note that "Fixed bug #11831: Removal of mp-fremantle-*-pr breaks apt autoremover ", so now I'm leery of version 9 coming out with "Fixed bug: N900 no longer explodes when you double-tap."  Right now v6.5 seems fairly usable except for this ridiculous tendency to rotate when
May 07 18:49:55 <kwtm> the device is still 20 degrees from the horizontal
May 07 18:49:55 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11831 Removal of mp-fremantle-*-pr breaks apt autoremover
May 07 18:50:36 <Jaffa> kwtm: You should look at the bug reports: "breaks apt autoremover" has been in there since the first version
May 07 18:51:06 <kwtm> Jaffa: Ok, so now I need to look at bug reports.  How long to go through 11831 of them, since there are apparently that many?
May 07 18:51:16 <Jaffa> kwtm: If you're not willing to test, don't test. Wait for the stable version - and, indeed, start a conversation on maemo-developers about how and/when that could be
May 07 18:51:45 <Jaffa> kwtm: Those are all the Maemo bugs. You're extrapolating from a line in a changelog that a bug in the CSSU is fixed, and assume it was introduced in the previous version. That's almost certainly not true in the majority of cases.
May 07 18:52:00 <kwtm> Jaffa: I have already asked maemo developers about that.  In the meanwhile, I wanted to see if the landscape lock included portrait lock.
May 07 18:52:39 <Jaffa> kwtm: And if it did, it'd say "landscape/portrait orientation lock" or just "orientation lock"
May 07 18:52:49 <Jaffa> kwtm: "asked maemo developers about that"?
May 07 18:53:23 <kwtm> Jaffa: You are right that it would mention "portrait lock", but I wanted to see if the portrait lock had already been introduced in an earlier version, or otherwise was somehow subsumed into that.
May 07 18:54:01 <kwtm> Jaffa: Meanwhile, what I meant about the Changelog is that there may be changes not listed in the log.
May 07 18:54:38 <kwtm> Jaffa: I continue to be wary about the text highlighting bug that DocScrutinizer mentioned, for which he (and now I) has been avoiding going beyond v7.
May 07 18:56:34 <Jaffa> kwtm: Well, it doesn't look like the Qt upgrade is going to be reverted so it's a question of drumming up Qt developers to investigate & fix.
May 07 18:57:03 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: I see that v7, which you have, is listed as having "Improved press effect " whereas in the next version, it says "Reverted improved zoom on press effect. "   Is the "press effect" the same as "zoom on press effect"?  If yes, then what is this "press effect" which the developers decided to revert in the next version?
May 07 18:58:15 <DocScrutinizer> no idea, seems you had to enable it in transitions.ini or sth, which is fine for me
May 07 18:58:26 <kwtm> Jaffa: Ok. I will hold off on anything beyond v7 then, till a fix is in.
May 07 18:58:35 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Thanks.  That's good news.  Up to v7 I go, then.
May 07 18:59:14 <Jaffa> kwtm: Kinda breaks the covenant of being able to test the damned thing and get it stabilised, but <shrug/>
May 07 19:02:07 <kwtm> Jaffa: Well, I do believe that further testing of versions that are not the newest is also of value, partly because not all features are updated in the next version, and partly because I seem to have a knack for digging up bugs in the darndest places.
May 07 19:04:57 <DocScrutinizer> in my notion cssu is already halfway down the "introduce new bleeding edge feature, fix one bug, introduce 4 new ones - nobody cares about a testing not to mention stable branche due to missing manpower" road of no return
May 07 19:05:49 <kwtm> In an unrelated question, how would I tell HAM to check for updates every 30 years instead of the default which is too frequent for my taste (and connection and battery)?
May 07 19:06:11 <DocScrutinizer> see cistomizing-maemo wiki
May 07 19:06:20 <kwtm> will search. thx
May 07 19:09:07 <RST38h> Somebody should really downgrade Modest in the CSSU: it crashes way too often
May 07 19:09:11 <DocScrutinizer> (road of no return) that's the path that SHR is following since like 2 years now, and it started quite like cssu does right now
May 07 19:09:30 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: thanks, got the auto updates frequency tweak.
May 07 19:09:40 <DocScrutinizer> yw
May 07 19:09:59 <Sazpaimon> Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to talk.maemo.org
May 07 19:10:01 <Sazpaimon> oh bou
May 07 19:10:03 <Sazpaimon> *boy
May 07 19:10:11 <kwtm> SHR, DocScrutinizer?
May 07 19:10:29 <DocScrutinizer> http://shr-project.org
May 07 19:10:50 <DocScrutinizer> the most popular OM FR distro
May 07 19:11:28 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Useful info!  Thanks.
May 07 19:11:38 <kwtm> Okay, I'm off.  Bye all!
May 07 19:13:02 <compengi> what's the sudo password on maemo?
May 07 19:13:26 <Guest24091> So I installed a crud load of software on my n900 about a month ago. Bad idea, it crashed and went into a reboot loop. Since then I've reflashed 5 times. Every time I reflash it works until I reboot and then it goes back into a reboot loop. Any ideas what would cause this?
May 07 19:14:42 <Sicelo_> multiboot, perhaps Guest24091 ?
May 07 19:14:43 <RST38h> Guest: Have you installed any dual loaders, nitroid, meego, etc?
May 07 19:15:29 <DocScrutinizer> multiboot
May 07 19:15:41 <GAN900> flash emmc?
May 07 19:16:01 <DocScrutinizer> meh, don't install nitdroid/multibot
May 07 19:16:20 <Guest24091> At one point I think I installed nitroid, but that was many flashes ago (both eMMC and FIASCO)
May 07 19:16:43 <Guest24091> If that's the problem is there something else I have to do to get rid of it?
May 07 19:17:50 <DocScrutinizer> reflash, then on restoring your "data" from backup-app make sure you don't install nitdroid/multiboot again
May 07 19:18:13 <DocScrutinizer> there's a comfortable per-app selection option in backup-restore
May 07 19:18:57 <Guest24091> I actually haven't been restoring anything from the backup app. Just using exchange to sync all of my google contacts, installing fcamera and a few widgets.
May 07 19:19:10 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
May 07 19:19:28 <DocScrutinizer> so you should try to reboot before you do that
May 07 19:19:34 <DocScrutinizer> and see if that works
May 07 19:19:43 <Guest24091> This time it crashed in the middle of installing apps via fast app manager and then went into a reboot loop.
May 07 19:19:44 <renato_filho> DocScrutinizer, yes I'm the maintainer  of PySide pkg
May 07 19:19:45 <Guest24091> Ok
May 07 19:19:51 <Guest24091> Worth a try.
May 07 19:20:16 <DocScrutinizer> you as wel might do wrong by flashing eMMC after fiasco/rootfs, and so destroying /opt
May 07 19:21:24 <DocScrutinizer> well, it wouldn't boot out of flashing mode after you do that
May 07 19:21:41 <Guest73711> No, I'm definitely flashing the eMMC first.
May 07 19:21:51 <DocScrutinizer> good
May 07 19:22:11 <DocScrutinizer> so check if you can boot a 'virgin' system several times
May 07 19:22:16 <Guest73711> (I can follow directions once I've been bitten by not following them)
May 07 19:22:19 <DocScrutinizer> then come back and report
May 07 19:22:30 <Guest73711> Ok, just rewiped and am doing that.
May 07 19:23:06 <DocScrutinizer> one of your widgets may make hildon reboot
May 07 19:23:21 <DocScrutinizer> I had that once
May 07 19:23:24 <Guest73711> (App search and Touch search?)
May 07 19:23:38 <compengi> what's the sudo password on maemo?
May 07 19:23:44 <DocScrutinizer> nome
May 07 19:23:45 <compengi> i want to issue apt-get
May 07 19:23:48 <DocScrutinizer> none
May 07 19:23:51 <compengi> oh
May 07 19:24:07 <DocScrutinizer> #~> root
May 07 19:24:14 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: And what's your proposal to fix that situation, then? :-p
May 07 19:25:06 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: hard to give good advice. By al means care about a testing branch that's focused on usability/stability rather than bleeding edge
May 07 19:25:20 <compengi> DocScrutinizer, i want to issue apt-get update, what should i do?
May 07 19:25:52 <DocScrutinizer> compengi: type `root>ENTER>whatever-apt-get-you-like....'
May 07 19:26:07 <DocScrutinizer> root
May 07 19:26:12 <DocScrutinizer> is the magic word
May 07 19:26:16 <DocScrutinizer> not sudo
May 07 19:26:32 <compengi> it says not found
May 07 19:26:40 <Guest73711> Wait, seriously? No need to install gainroot or rootsh?
May 07 19:26:41 <DocScrutinizer> root is kinda short for "sudo gainroot"
May 07 19:26:59 <DocScrutinizer> compengi: install rootsh pkg
May 07 19:27:09 <DocScrutinizer> try sudo gainroot first
May 07 19:27:49 <DocScrutinizer> if it says "enable R&D to brick your ..." then you need to install rootsh pkg
May 07 19:28:00 <compengi> yeah
May 07 19:28:00 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: I don't disagree, but it's a question of trying to steer people towards the goal of releasing something stable.
May 07 19:28:15 <renato_filho> DocScrutinizer, Who I can ask for more info about these packages? Only the i386 package was uploaded to repository
May 07 19:28:25 <DocScrutinizer> you need to have milestones and developers assigned to the task
May 07 19:28:39 <DocScrutinizer> you need feature freeze dates
May 07 19:29:13 <DocScrutinizer> you even might need to freeze -devel work until -testing is done
May 07 19:29:50 <compengi> DocScrutinizer, my package manager is hallucinating, it says there are no protocols configured and it happened when i stopped updating portage process
May 07 19:30:20 <DocScrutinizer> umm, no idea
May 07 19:31:03 <DocScrutinizer> compengi: disable all catalogs except extras (and the Nokia catalogs of course)
May 07 19:31:19 <MohammadAG> ZogG, ping
May 07 19:32:19 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: for now probably 7 is a good base for a testing or even stable release to easy users' access to cssu
May 07 19:33:09 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: No-one's volunteered to organise and pitch that though, AFAICT.
May 07 19:33:33 <DocScrutinizer> that's the problem that will kill cssu if not tackled NOW
May 07 19:35:21 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: If no-one's got the itch enough to scratch, maybe it'll stay niche then because the community is really too small to sustain any such project.
May 07 19:35:22 <DocScrutinizer> cssu will become the playground of the devels rather than a valid option for all users
May 07 19:35:51 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, exactly that'll going to happen
May 07 19:35:58 <DocScrutinizer> as it did on SHR
May 07 19:37:25 <Jaffa> SHR?
May 07 19:37:39 <DocScrutinizer> there are so many users not even aware of IRC or CSSU and just disappointed about bugs in maemo5proper
May 07 19:38:06 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-05-07 21:08:51] <DocScrutinizer> http://shr-project.org
May 07 19:38:07 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-05-07 21:09:12] <DocScrutinizer> the most popular OM FR distro
May 07 19:38:09 <DocScrutinizer> 
May 07 19:38:41 <DocScrutinizer> CSSU is targeted to give hope to those users, instant relieve
May 07 19:39:15 <DocScrutinizer> they don't care about FOSS replacement for cam or mediaplayer, first instance
May 07 19:39:27 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: I've been trying to get the people who can help polish it to help, but little repsonse
May 07 19:39:40 <DocScrutinizer> what they care about is broken enter key in shell, CPU rape on catorize
May 07 19:40:01 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: Both of which are fixed, of course
May 07 19:40:15 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, in CSSU they are of course
May 07 19:40:54 <DocScrutinizer> but nobody of those 'noobs' will go for an unstable cssu that gives them more new problems than it fixes
May 07 19:41:13 <DocScrutinizer> and FUD is another big factor here
May 07 19:41:37 <DocScrutinizer> they won't even go for ANY cssu as long as it's labled '-devel'
May 07 19:41:47 <MohammadAG>  the only two critical bugs that need to be resolved ASAP are the QTBUG 18720 and the modest crashes
May 07 19:41:57 <DocScrutinizer> lot of N900 users NEED a working phone
May 07 19:42:37 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: fine, them make a roadmap: fix those two bugs, feature freeze, test, move to stable
May 07 19:44:00 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, it's not like I'm not trying to get it fixed
May 07 19:44:03 <Venemo> hey again guys
May 07 19:44:19 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: the feature freeze is the key bit
May 07 19:44:39 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer ++ ++ ++
May 07 19:45:00 <trx> is TMO down?
May 07 19:45:27 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, can I make phone calls with SHR?
May 07 19:45:32 <DocScrutinizer> feature freeze NOW, make a milestone for stable-rc0, fix the known bugs, test, publish
May 07 19:45:43 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: on some devices yes
May 07 19:45:48 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, N900?
May 07 19:45:57 <DocScrutinizer> not yet, but we're close
May 07 19:46:33 <DocScrutinizer> took like 5 months to get shit sorted, but last 2 weeks there's been great progress
May 07 19:46:46 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I fully agree, but the fact is, Qt bugs seem to be assigned to /dev/null
May 07 19:46:58 <DocScrutinizer> then go for 7
May 07 19:47:13 <DocScrutinizer> declare that version your feature freeze
May 07 19:47:31 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, btw, is SHR an abbreviation?
May 07 19:47:31 <DocScrutinizer> review, fix things that need to be fixed, then test and publish that one
May 07 19:47:43 <DocScrutinizer> Stable Hybrid Release
May 07 19:47:47 <DocScrutinizer> hahahaha
May 07 19:47:51 <nox-> hah
May 07 19:47:57 <Venemo> "Hybrid release"?
May 07 19:48:07 <DocScrutinizer> hybrid like meego
May 07 19:48:10 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
May 07 19:48:32 <DocScrutinizer> union of old OM2008 and FSO
May 07 19:48:42 <DocScrutinizer> iirc
May 07 19:48:45 <Venemo> mhm
May 07 19:48:49 <Venemo> ~iirc
May 07 19:48:50 <infobot> well, iirc is "if I recall correctly"
May 07 19:48:57 <Sicelo_> ~fud
May 07 19:48:58 <infobot> fud is probably Fear, uncertainty, doubt. Originally invented by IBM, but now used by many others. or YAFA. or Fscking Useless Data or otherwise known as false information or mindless facts with no backup facts or http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=7420
May 07 19:50:23 <DocScrutinizer> trx: yeah, tmo down or dog slow
May 07 19:51:01 <MohammadAG> down for me too
May 07 19:51:28 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, RL is calling
May 07 19:51:50 <DocScrutinizer> go CSSU crew, goooo, GOOOOOOO!! :-D
May 07 19:52:14 <RST38h> Mohammad:Please, do something about Modest
May 07 19:52:29 <RST38h> Mohammad: If it is impossible to fix, downgrade it: right now it coredumps on many emails
May 07 19:53:12 <DocScrutinizer> declare rev7 the base for stable feature freeze. Modest been ok in 7 afaik
May 07 19:53:20 <MohammadAG> Sc0rpius, thoughts?
May 07 19:53:36 <SpeedEvil> Or if it reliably coredumps - do the bisect thing
May 07 20:02:47 * Sc0rpius readsa
May 07 20:02:49 * Sc0rpius reads
May 07 20:03:56 <cityLights> guys,
May 07 20:04:03 <cityLights> I need help
May 07 20:04:09 <cityLights> I wrote this program
May 07 20:04:17 <cityLights> and somehow it loops
May 07 20:04:21 <Sc0rpius> and what RST38h needs exactly in Modest?
May 07 20:04:26 <cityLights> and I just cant find why
May 07 20:04:35 <cityLights> http://dpaste.com/539788/
May 07 20:04:57 <cityLights> I got no clue as to why timer_callback is called every time
May 07 20:04:57 <Sc0rpius> RST 38H as in the 8080 instruction? hehe
May 07 20:05:12 <cityLights> I tried adding debug messeges
May 07 20:05:21 <cityLights> but just dont understand it
May 07 20:05:37 <DocScrutinizer> cityLights: are you sure yu give correct value for timeout to qtimerfoo?
May 07 20:05:57 <DocScrutinizer> it might as well be millisec, even microsec
May 07 20:06:23 <DocScrutinizer> check that
May 07 20:06:36 <RST38h> Sc0rpius: I want it not to crash when viewing seemingly random emails
May 07 20:07:00 <Sc0rpius> since exactly when that is happening to you? since CSSU, or since a specific version of CSSU?
May 07 20:07:01 <cityLights> yes
May 07 20:07:17 <cityLights> you can also see this in the plot near the bottum
May 07 20:07:26 <RST38h> Sc0rpius: Since a few last iterations of CSSU
May 07 20:07:44 <RST38h> Sc0rpius: Ok, since CSSU started including Modest :)
May 07 20:07:51 <Sc0rpius> CSSU has always included Modest
May 07 20:08:00 <Sc0rpius> since the very first one
May 07 20:08:25 <Sc0rpius> but I noticed a few crashes since 14.2
May 07 20:09:00 <Sc0rpius> and the other day I was thinking it was very weird since the last commit I made to Modest it was working fine and severely tested
May 07 20:09:08 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: prepare a conveniently installable version7, declare that -test
May 07 20:09:12 <DocScrutinizer> NOW
May 07 20:09:31 <RST38h> Sc0rpius: I do suspect the crashes were in whatever version got imported into CSSU
May 07 20:09:35 <DocScrutinizer> no fixing, nuttin
May 07 20:09:59 <RST38h> Sc0rpius: So it is unlikely to be your personal changes but the damn thing still crashes, which is hardly tolerable =(
May 07 20:10:34 <Sc0rpius> a downgrade from 3.90 to 3.4 (stock Maemo) will not be considered
May 07 20:10:48 <paulyn900> hi
May 07 20:10:53 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: please test on 1337-7-rc0 soon to come
May 07 20:10:59 <Sc0rpius> well gitorious isn't helping me right now to see what was the last changes in Modest and who made them
May 07 20:11:12 <paulyn900> i have n900 and.
May 07 20:11:18 <DocScrutinizer> 1337-7-testing-rc0 even
May 07 20:11:24 <Sc0rpius> RST38h: it crashes viewing mails?
May 07 20:11:37 <RST38h> Yes
May 07 20:12:04 <paulyn900> want to restore it to default factory but my usb is broken? any ideas?
May 07 20:12:31 <DocScrutinizer> paulyn900: you're pretty much fsckd
May 07 20:12:32 <Sc0rpius> RST38h: are you using tree view mode or normal list mode?
May 07 20:12:45 <paulyn900> i cant reflash
May 07 20:12:52 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
May 07 20:13:26 <DocScrutinizer> N900 with broken USB is a semi-brick, a zombie
May 07 20:13:34 <paulyn900> lol
May 07 20:13:39 <paulyn900> i know
May 07 20:13:51 <RST38h> normal
May 07 20:14:32 <paulyn900> u think someone would buy it in its condition?
May 07 20:14:32 <Jaffa> BUg 11961?
May 07 20:14:34 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11961 Random email application (modest) crashes with CSSU
May 07 20:14:47 <Jaffa> There are stack traces and stuff on there, and a comment which may link it to a widget or something
May 07 20:14:49 <RST38h> yeaaaa
May 07 20:14:55 <DocScrutinizer> paulyn900: under battery is a single pair of 2 gold dots, these are USB D+/-
May 07 20:14:57 <paulyn900> i think im goona move away from maemo / nokia
May 07 20:14:59 <Jaffa> Although I've got the widget enabled and don't have any Modest crashes at all
May 07 20:15:04 <Jaffa> Sc0rpius: ^^^
May 07 20:15:17 <Sc0rpius> hmm
May 07 20:15:21 <paulyn900> ahhh really
May 07 20:16:03 <paulyn900> i have a spare usb cable
May 07 20:16:50 <SpeedEvil> paulyn900: Where in the world ar eyou?
May 07 20:17:04 <DocScrutinizer> when those 2 dots are upper left, counting down the rows, vbus 5V is on 2nd row down, leftmost dot
May 07 20:17:09 <SpeedEvil> paulyn900: Also - it's possible that there is debris in the connector - look carefully nder a strong light
May 07 20:17:13 <DocScrutinizer> gnd is everywhere ;-D
May 07 20:17:14 <RST38h> OMG they have found a videotape of Osama watching TV feature about himself!
May 07 20:17:18 <paulyn900> baltimore, md usa
May 07 20:17:22 <RST38h> How cute!
May 07 20:17:37 <SpeedEvil> paulyn900: Ah - EU has 2 year warranties - guess that doersn't help.
May 07 20:17:48 <paulyn900> no worries
May 07 20:17:52 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: wait til you see the awesome rest
May 07 20:18:13 <RST38h> RU has walk-in electronics repair shops - guess that doesn't help either
May 07 20:18:32 <paulyn900> lol im using a t mobile my touch 3g slide i found at the mall
May 07 20:18:33 <RST38h> Doc: Will there be Osama porn?!?!?
May 07 20:18:49 <paulyn900> feel bad for whoever lost it
May 07 20:19:15 <RST38h> paul: Have you tried returning it to whoever lost it?
May 07 20:19:23 <paulyn900> yes
May 07 20:19:46 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: yeah, coloring his beard, pondering if he looks alright for taking a video
May 07 20:19:47 <paulyn900> no awnser
May 07 20:19:58 <paulyn900> so its mines now
May 07 20:21:05 <paulyn900> Android is quite nice for end user but i cant figure out how to close a program quite odd
May 07 20:21:06 <RST38h> Doc:Playing with his golden AK-54!
May 07 20:21:07 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, I found pointers to the QTBUG
May 07 20:21:07 <MohammadAG> remember that it also made the fcamera manual focus circle disappear?
May 07 20:21:07 <MohammadAG> I dug around fcamera's sources
May 07 20:22:01 * Sc0rpius is trying to reproduce the bug scrolling fast or viewing mails or anything that ppl have reported to cause the crash
May 07 20:22:29 <paulyn900> anyone want to buy n900 with broken usb? in usa
May 07 20:22:29 <RST38h> Sc0rpius: it is not from scrolling, for sure
May 07 20:22:41 <RST38h> Sc0rpius: For me, it consistently crashes when OPENING certain emails
May 07 20:22:44 <DocScrutinizer> may be a friggin detaol in mails
May 07 20:22:48 <Sc0rpius> RST38h, do you use MfE?=
May 07 20:23:03 <RST38h> No
May 07 20:23:06 <RST38h> God, no
May 07 20:23:09 <Sc0rpius> just IMAP accounts?
May 07 20:23:21 <RST38h> A GMail account and a POP3 account
May 07 20:23:38 <Sc0rpius> does it crash viewing a gmail mail?
May 07 20:23:58 <RST38h> Good question...I *think* I only saw it crash with POP3 emails
May 07 20:24:08 <RST38h> May be wrong though: not receiving a lot of GMail stuff
May 07 20:24:13 <paulyn900> i think maemo shoud have used webkit browser its so quick
May 07 20:24:22 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: shame on you. You should know how to open tickets
May 07 20:24:29 <DocScrutinizer> and provide proper info
May 07 20:24:34 <Sicelo_> paulyn900: i would be wary of putting my sim card in an unknown phone.. if owner reports it as lost..you could find yourself answering stupid questions :/
May 07 20:24:39 <paulyn900> midori port is alright
May 07 20:25:05 <Sc0rpius> do you autodownload images in your emails or you press the image button to download them after viewing emails? also, does it crash in texts emails or heavy HTML with images mails'
May 07 20:25:07 <Sc0rpius> ?
May 07 20:25:08 <paulyn900> its okay ill just say i bought it from someone
May 07 20:25:09 <Sicelo_> too bad i'm in southern africa.. i'd certainly buy your n900
May 07 20:25:13 <RST38h> Doc: Looks like the ticket is already open
May 07 20:25:41 <RST38h> Doc:And I am not yet pissed off enough to open a ticket and insist on maintainers' attention to it
May 07 20:25:50 <DocScrutinizer> k
May 07 20:26:26 <DocScrutinizer> nevertheless you are the one who can dissect the issue and track it down
May 07 20:26:29 <Sc0rpius> anyway I would be the one with the ticket :P
May 07 20:26:57 <RST38h> Doc: Lack any time =(
May 07 20:27:01 <Sc0rpius> but wow I haven't creashed the Modest and I'm vieweing and scrolling mails like crazy
May 07 20:27:18 <DocScrutinizer> send the offending mail to somebody else who's interested
May 07 20:27:26 <RST38h> Doc: I mean, literally. Don't have enough time to sleep even.
May 07 20:27:33 <Sc0rpius> maybe it's kinda of private but do you have an email that always crashes?
May 07 20:27:58 <derf> RST38h: As long as you have time to IRC.
May 07 20:27:58 <RST38h> Sc0rpius: I think I had. Once I catch another one, I will keep it there and contact you.
May 07 20:28:18 <DocScrutinizer> sounds like a plan
May 07 20:28:20 <RST38h> derf: Yea, but this is happening in parallel with some development
May 07 20:28:41 <paulyn900> n900 needs like an external portable power source for it to last one day
May 07 20:29:20 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: don't mess with modest bugfixing, make a 1337-7-testing release - NOW
May 07 20:30:01 <paulyn900> and i canf even charge it my external charger take 3hours to fully charge
May 07 20:30:03 <Sc0rpius> I wish I could reproduce the crash :(
May 07 20:30:26 <t_s_o> how much free space is recommended to ensure diablo-turbo installs cleanly?
May 07 20:30:38 <DocScrutinizer> yay
May 07 20:30:50 <DocScrutinizer> those were the times :-)
May 07 20:31:06 * Sicelo_ understands DocScrutinizer's point
May 07 20:31:09 <paulyn900> i love maemo just frustrated with my broken device bbl
May 07 20:31:28 <Sicelo_> how much u selling it for?
May 07 20:32:01 <DocScrutinizer> paulyn900: get "your" hw fixed
May 07 20:32:21 <paulyn900> i know
May 07 20:32:21 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, modest isn't "assigned" to me
May 07 20:32:23 <MohammadAG> and downgrading Qt means downgrading hildon-desktop
May 07 20:32:40 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, all doesn't matter
May 07 20:32:55 <DocScrutinizer> even good, so you don't have to bother with it
May 07 20:33:14 <DocScrutinizer> get 1337-7 and move it to a testing branch
May 07 20:33:55 <DocScrutinizer> prepare a way for normal mortals to install it, and publish the news cssu got a testing now
May 07 20:34:16 <DocScrutinizer> after one or two weeks, decide whether to call it stable now
May 07 20:34:32 <MohammadAG> ...
May 07 20:34:52 <MohammadAG> you do realize that up to maemo7, nothing new was there?
May 07 20:35:10 <DocScrutinizer> cssu7?
May 07 20:35:54 <MohammadAG> without fixing the Qt bug in one way or another, I won't push a stable release
May 07 20:36:00 <DocScrutinizer> yeah I realize, and that's exactly why this version is OK for a first testing that is exclusively targeted at fixing maemo bugs
May 07 20:36:02 <paulyn900> sicelo_ 250 usd
May 07 20:36:14 <MohammadAG> also, I'd appreciate it if extras-devel got new versions of Qt Mobility, the current ones suck
May 07 20:36:24 <DocScrutinizer> wtf, which Qt bug - in 1337-7???
May 07 20:36:44 <MohammadAG> mameo7 doesn't have any new features
May 07 20:36:57 <DocScrutinizer> I never heard of mameo7
May 07 20:36:58 <MohammadAG> Features frozen on current release
May 07 20:39:07 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm talking about 2010.36-2maemo13
May 07 20:39:26 <DocScrutinizer51> aka 1337-7
May 07 20:39:27 <Sc0rpius> wow I can't crash this
May 07 20:41:05 <MohammadAG> Sc0rpius, I only encountered a modest crash once
May 07 20:42:08 <Sc0rpius> it crashed on me yesterday actually
May 07 20:42:12 <DocScrutinizer> this version has actually been tested at very least by me for several weeks, maybe months, and it kinda works. No use in moving bleeding edge to testing after fixing most annoying recently known bugs, there'll be no better version to backport bugfixes from
May 07 20:42:12 <Sc0rpius> just once too
May 07 20:42:19 <Sc0rpius> I'm downloading the core dumps somebody posted in the bug
May 07 20:43:05 <DocScrutinizer> the whole point of a testing version *is* it's *not* bleeding edge
May 07 20:43:26 <DocScrutinizer> that's why I say let's use  2010.36-2maemo13
May 07 20:43:40 <Sc0rpius> what you don't like about cssu 14?
May 07 20:44:11 <DocScrutinizer> all the bugs that MohammadAG thinks he has to fix before he can release that one for a testing version
May 07 20:44:15 <DocScrutinizer> simple as that
May 07 20:45:05 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-05-07 22:40:33] <DocScrutinizer> this version has actually been tested at very least by me for several weeks, maybe months, and it kinda works. No use in moving bleeding edge to testing after fixing most annoying recently known bugs, there'll be no better version to backport bugfixes from
May 07 20:45:27 * Jaffa also thinks that the new Qt version could perhaps use more in-depth testing, and having the first CSSU release out would alleviate the pressure on that
May 07 20:45:49 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
May 07 20:46:05 <DocScrutinizer> hey, it's a testing(!!!) release
May 07 20:46:34 <DocScrutinizer> means we're rather sure we fixed all the bugs we knew, but we expect some more to appear
May 07 20:46:37 * Sc0rpius just wants to crash Modest
May 07 20:47:11 <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/unique-bluetooth-handset-pink-6-hour-talk-160-hour-standby-24476
May 07 20:47:11 <DocScrutinizer> kill -SIGSEGV $(pidof modest)
May 07 20:48:40 <DocScrutinizer> so pretty please go for 1337-7 for first testing release, and do it *now*
May 07 20:49:55 <DocScrutinizer> fixing bugs in <bleeding edge> isn't like preparing a testing release, it's the contrary
May 07 20:52:12 <kerio> i think bleeding edge is a pretty cool guy
May 07 20:52:24 <kerio> eh introduces new features and bugs and doesn't afraid of anything
May 07 20:54:35 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: I see what you were talking about
May 07 20:57:39 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, I've looked at the SHR video
May 07 20:57:51 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
May 07 20:58:12 <DocScrutinizer> it's quite some months old
May 07 20:58:19 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, seems that the GUI was designed by two persons - one who knows about usability and one who doesn't.
May 07 20:58:21 <DocScrutinizer> the N900 one
May 07 20:58:30 <DocScrutinizer> hehehe
May 07 20:58:35 <DocScrutinizer> might be right
May 07 20:58:56 <Venemo> why do you make your own UX anyway? you could use an existing one
May 07 20:59:10 <DocScrutinizer> don't ask me
May 07 20:59:33 <DocScrutinizer> I think much of that stuff based on raster's illume
May 07 20:59:46 <DocScrutinizer> enlightenment, whatever
May 07 21:00:21 <Venemo> well I don't really care what it's based on. and it really doesn't matter
May 07 21:00:48 <DocScrutinizer> but, as always, there are some gifted devels, and some not so gifted, and if your team is short on manpower, you're happy about every helping hand
May 07 21:00:50 <Venemo> what really matters is how good it looks ans how comfortable it is to use.
May 07 21:01:38 <Venemo> yeah, I agree - all the more reason to use something that already exists instead of reinventing the wheel again.
May 07 21:02:37 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: SHR is so far down the street of no return, that I'm trying to save cssu from, they don't care about usability, for sure not about "looking good", they have their devel playground to bring another "better component replacing XYZ"
May 07 21:03:33 <Venemo> haah
May 07 21:03:38 <Venemo> yeah
May 07 21:03:47 <Venemo> sounds like the complete opposite of meego
May 07 21:03:53 <DocScrutinizer> before they even start to think about 'looking good' they need a new platform as the old one got obsolete
May 07 21:04:40 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, so, what is it that's got obsolete?
May 07 21:05:00 <DocScrutinizer> that's why SHR not seen any testing not to mention stable release since ~2 years, afaik
May 07 21:06:39 <Venemo> heh.
May 07 21:13:25 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: May 05 17:14:23 <mickeyl>   in http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel/openmoko-cdevel.20110506.txt
May 07 21:14:47 <DocScrutinizer> also grep 20110507 for antric, mickeyl and DocScrutinizer
May 07 21:15:05 <DocScrutinizer> antrik actually
May 07 21:15:20 <Venemo> May 05 16:01:42 <antrik> DocScrutinizer: well, if you are willing to do whatever it takes to get it upstream, then *you* should be the one who starts the discussion on LKML...
May 07 21:15:55 <DocScrutinizer> so what, read my answer as well
May 07 21:16:06 <Venemo> I'm reading
May 07 21:18:11 <Venemo> yeah DocScrutinizer, Linux world is full of stupid politics
May 07 21:19:43 <Venemo> but the end comment sounds promising
May 07 21:19:44 <Venemo> May 05 17:28:17 <mickeyl> yo, surely interesting. right now i think they're more pressuring issues, but once we have the connectivity issues sorted out, i'm sure there'll be movements towards that
May 07 21:20:37 <DocScrutinizer> won't happen - there'll be other more pressing affairs by then
May 07 21:21:06 <Venemo> well, I am not a kernel hacker either
May 07 21:21:14 <DocScrutinizer> devels' playground, you know. No testing, no stable ever
May 07 21:21:26 <Venemo> yea...
May 07 21:21:37 <Venemo> but I don't get what's the point in that
May 07 21:21:48 <DocScrutinizer> "let's port the shit to LG now, as N900 is not sold anymore..."
May 07 21:22:23 <nox-> that reminds me of...  http://linuxfr.org/news/linus-torvalds-l%E2%80%99interview-anniversaire-des-20%C2%A0ans-du-noyau#comment-1230981
May 07 21:22:25 <DocScrutinizer> [9 months later] "\o/ we got modem to connect to GPRS"
May 07 21:22:50 <Venemo> why is it that all these ports of various projects suck so miserable?
May 07 21:22:55 <Venemo> miserably*
May 07 21:23:14 <DocScrutinizer> becuase devels take no pride in *finalizing* things
May 07 21:23:15 <nox-> lack of manpower?
May 07 21:23:18 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: Funding.
May 07 21:23:20 <Venemo> and why is the phone modem always the barrier?
May 07 21:23:24 <ShadowJK> Maybe it's actually hard and maybe it takes actual effort? :-)
May 07 21:23:42 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: Maemo probably had well over a thousand paid devs involved.
May 07 21:23:52 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: Lack of documents.
May 07 21:23:57 <Venemo> nor meego, nor nitdroid, nor SHR, neither of them manages to actually make a phone call.
May 07 21:23:58 <SpeedEvil> The many-eyes fallacy.
May 07 21:24:16 <Venemo> lack of docs may be a good excuse for Nitdroid or SHR, but not for MeeGo
May 07 21:24:17 <SpeedEvil> The many eyes hypothesis is that with enough eyes, all bugs are shallow.
May 07 21:24:31 <SpeedEvil> The problem is that this is only true for 'pure' code.
May 07 21:24:36 <Venemo> "many-eyes" requires "many eyes" who _care_
May 07 21:24:58 <SpeedEvil> Once you start to get into hardware - the number of devs who would have a clue plummets.
May 07 21:25:06 <SpeedEvil> So have a clue * care = ~0
May 07 21:25:10 <SpeedEvil> And progress stalls.
May 07 21:25:12 <Venemo> I see.
May 07 21:25:14 <ShadowJK> Meego makes phonecalls now :-)
May 07 21:25:21 <Venemo> ShadowJK, nope, it doesn't
May 07 21:25:29 <Venemo> not for me anyway
May 07 21:25:32 <DocScrutinizer> SHR also does afaik, just sound is missing
May 07 21:25:37 <Venemo> heheh
May 07 21:25:48 <Venemo> phone call without sound is not phone call by definition.
May 07 21:25:51 <ShadowJK> The phone calls part actually requires some code writing :-)
May 07 21:25:56 <DocScrutinizer> maybe that changed though, during last 12h
May 07 21:26:13 <Venemo> also, MeeGo can't connect to wifi either, and the handset ux sucks
May 07 21:26:32 <Venemo> they have made a _VERY_ good job on its performance however
May 07 21:27:14 <ShadowJK> I think the idea of upstreaming everything came from the frustration of all the hw having custom drivers that break with every new release of everything else
May 07 21:27:22 <Venemo> yeah
May 07 21:27:26 <Venemo> and that's a good point
May 07 21:27:35 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: (progress stalls) and when somebody with a clue * interest points them to a flaw, to better code, to the problems involved for battery life etc, then it's "duh, we are no kernel hackers, so we gonna use what's upstream"
May 07 21:28:17 <ShadowJK> But then you also need people with the passion, attention to detail, motivation, and most of all, time, to write code that gets accepted upstream
May 07 21:28:44 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
May 07 21:28:54 <SpeedEvil> And sometimes upstream appear to be ass-hats.
May 07 21:29:10 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, at this point, I think some piece of OSS software is much better destined to succeed than those that target phones. simply because they don't have to hack around the cell modem. (seems that the cell modem is always the most evil thing)
May 07 21:29:21 <Venemo> meh
May 07 21:29:26 <SpeedEvil> It's really not that.
May 07 21:29:35 <SpeedEvil> Well - not that alone.
May 07 21:29:35 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, at this point, I think some piece of OSS software which targets _Tablets_ is much better destined to succeed than those that target _phones_. simply because they don't have to hack around the cell modem. (seems that the cell modem is always the most evil thing)
May 07 21:29:36 <ShadowJK> And these things are more complicated than you think. For example, I am more than able myself of writing code to control the battery gauge and battery charger hardware of the N900, but I would have no friggin clue about how to get it integrated and working together with the Linux kernel, let alone working together with any operating system ontop of the kernel
May 07 21:29:41 <DocScrutinizer> even worse, you need somebody to "defend the new code, maintain it, and you will have a hard time to explain why the existing driver can't get fixed and API has to change"
May 07 21:29:45 <SpeedEvil> A cellphone is a _fucking_huge_ codebase.
May 07 21:30:05 <Venemo> sorry I typo'd the first one.
May 07 21:30:19 <SpeedEvil> If you want it to do more than send and recieve texts, and make calls.
May 07 21:30:27 <SpeedEvil> Even then, with the n900, that's a major task.
May 07 21:30:54 <SpeedEvil> Especially if you want to track upstream.
May 07 21:30:57 <ShadowJK> It doesn't help that 3g specifications includes reinventing all of Internet up until 2001 or so.
May 07 21:31:14 <ShadowJK> in a new incompatible-with-the-real-internet way :)
May 07 21:32:27 <Venemo> but why doesn't anyone actually send that fucking modem driver upstream? why didn't nokia for one do so?
May 07 21:32:44 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: lol, yeah
May 07 21:32:48 <SpeedEvil> Much of the nokia code is not upstreamable in its present state.
May 07 21:33:08 <Venemo> I also don't understand why the actual manufacturers of the modem make a driver for it
May 07 21:33:24 <Venemo> I really need to take a break
May 07 21:33:29 <SpeedEvil> For example - component_version in /proc
May 07 21:33:32 <Venemo> I also don't understand why the actual manufacturers of the modem _don't_ make a driver for it
May 07 21:33:35 <SpeedEvil> Why is it not in cpuinfo
May 07 21:33:48 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: not in the contract.
May 07 21:33:57 <ShadowJK> In this case Nokia is the manufacturer. There's a driver in ofono, that uses phonet in kernel. I've seen phonet patches on linux kernel mailing list.
May 07 21:34:20 <Venemo> I thought phonet is some closed source shit
May 07 21:34:21 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: the maemo modem driver is closed source, the meego ofono one is still beta, and there are several quirks in RAPUYAMA that are not like what open cellphone specs (or what they're caled) require
May 07 21:34:36 <Venemo> what's RAPUYAMA?
May 07 21:34:46 <ShadowJK> The modem in N900 actually consists of a powerful ARM processor too, running its own firmware, with its own SDRAM. On its own it could actually run a low-end cellphone too :-)
May 07 21:34:50 <DocScrutinizer> the N900 (et all) BB5 modem
May 07 21:35:14 <DocScrutinizer> RAPUYAMA = baseband, GAZOO = PMU
May 07 21:35:16 <Venemo> ShadowJK, so the N900 in fact has two processors?
May 07 21:35:26 <ShadowJK> It depends on how you count processors
May 07 21:35:33 <DocScrutinizer> yes, it actually has some dozen
May 07 21:35:48 <Venemo> okay, if I count in the DSP and the others, then yeah
May 07 21:36:08 <DocScrutinizer> LP5523 LED controler engines are almost a cpu
May 07 21:36:18 <Venemo> but ShadowJK said that the modem has its own ARM CPU... not sure why it needs that though :D
May 07 21:36:24 <ShadowJK> But Symbian handsets used to say "Dual CPU" in their specs. Then Symbian gained hard-realtime capability, after which they could run Symbian and Modem on the same CPU (on N900 it's one CPU for Modem and one CPU for operating system) :-)
May 07 21:36:46 <ShadowJK> It was a big costs-saving advantage for Nokia at one point :P
May 07 21:36:47 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: It needs that for managing the GSM OTA protocol
May 07 21:37:02 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, is that protocol so hard that it needs its own CPU?
May 07 21:37:09 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 07 21:37:29 <Venemo> heh
May 07 21:37:30 <DocScrutinizer> esp if yu want the user to have full access to "the other" CPU
May 07 21:37:37 <Venemo> mhm
May 07 21:37:47 <Venemo> well then no wonder that the cell modem uses up so much power
May 07 21:38:01 <DocScrutinizer> it actually doesn't
May 07 21:38:07 <DocScrutinizer> standby is like 4mA
May 07 21:38:17 <DocScrutinizer> which is pretty decent
May 07 21:38:23 <Venemo> well the device's battery lasts considerably longer in offline mode
May 07 21:38:24 <ShadowJK> You know, when 3g specs were finalized, the fastest PC processor at the time was too weak to process all the protocols and algorithms required to implement 3g :-)
May 07 21:38:35 <Venemo> heh
May 07 21:38:37 <Venemo> I didn't know that
May 07 21:38:42 * SpeedEvil checks on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11091
May 07 21:38:44 <povbot> Bug 11091: Bug in cpufreq module - exposed in /proc/timer_stats
May 07 21:38:48 * SpeedEvil sighs.
May 07 21:38:53 <DocScrutinizer> sure Venemo - that's because TX is blasting with up to 0.5W
May 07 21:40:09 <Venemo> mhmm
May 07 21:40:21 <ShadowJK> Mostly power drain happens because of CDMA, your phone has to "join" other phones transmitting. Like a choir singing a chorus. Every phone has to regulate their transmission power accurately and precisely, so that no single one becomes too powerful, and so that the base station can still tell them apart. Once your phone is singing in the choir, it can't exit for a few seconds or so.
May 07 21:40:41 <ShadowJK> So, every single packet of data transmitted makes your phone transmit for like 5 seconds.
May 07 21:40:46 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: make sure your GPRS packet radio AP setup is empty, so no way any data gets transfered either way, and watch N900 standby like 250h on GSM
May 07 21:40:50 <ShadowJK> Which is roughly equivalent to 5 seconds of talk time.
May 07 21:41:38 <ShadowJK> If you're transfering data at high speed, the power drain is 2 - 4X that of "talk time" power consumption
May 07 21:41:39 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, yeah, GSM (even EDGE) also lasts considerably longer than 3G/HSDPA
May 07 21:42:09 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: see ShadowJK 's nice explanation above. 3G == WCDMA
May 07 21:42:40 <ShadowJK> GSM/EDGE is TDMA. Instead of everyone transmitting at the same time, they all get a small timeslot during which they must attempt to transmit their data. After that, another device gets the chance to transmit.
May 07 21:42:55 <Venemo> mhmm
May 07 21:43:07 <Venemo> thanks for explaining ShadowJK :)
May 07 21:43:11 <DocScrutinizer> which makes for the 200Hz humm on 2G
May 07 21:43:38 <ShadowJK> There's lots of extra overhead because EDGE is a kludge ontop of a kludge ontop of a kludge, etc... so it's actually pretty inefficient overall.. But, for always-on stuff like IRC and instant messengers, it's alot better than 3g
May 07 21:43:43 <DocScrutinizer> was it 200?
May 07 21:43:49 <ShadowJK> Dunno :-)
May 07 21:44:16 <ShadowJK> The tip-tap-tip-tap in speakers is from the low-rate command channel I think... and then there's the hum at.. yeah, 200-400hz somewhere?
May 07 21:44:30 <DocScrutinizer> 200
May 07 21:44:54 <DocScrutinizer> google for GSM timeslice - or slots
May 07 21:45:07 <DocScrutinizer> think it was 200
May 07 21:45:24 <ShadowJK> I think the chinese are on the right track with their TCDMA based 3g/4g solution. I know they just did it to be different and reduce patent licensing expenses, but hey
May 07 21:45:36 <ShadowJK> oh wait
May 07 21:45:42 <ShadowJK> nevermind
May 07 21:45:49 <ShadowJK> I don't know how TCDMA works :)
May 07 21:46:00 <DocScrutinizer> btw that's also where that nice Timing Advance value comes from - that tells you aout your distance to BTS on a 550m accuracy
May 07 21:46:12 <ShadowJK> Yeah :)
May 07 21:46:42 <GAN900> Ah, electronics.
May 07 21:46:50 <ShadowJK> Then we have wifi. Wifi is unique, its spectrum management facility is best described as "FUCK ME, FUCK YOU!"
May 07 21:47:26 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: that's definitely no electronics
May 07 21:47:39 <Venemo> ShadowJK, what do you mean by "FUCK ME, FUCK YOU!"?
May 07 21:47:51 <SpeedEvil> http://fatpita.net/?i=7269
May 07 21:47:54 <ShadowJK> Every station shouts, and the one that shouts first or loudest gets to speak, and then shouts until it gets its message across, however long that might take, blocking everyone else.
May 07 21:47:55 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, close enough for 5:46 on a Saturday. :P
May 07 21:48:05 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: that's what sw devels think about as "duh electronics, doesn't matter"
May 07 21:48:27 <Venemo> GAN900, what 5:46? where are you? :O
May 07 21:48:29 <GAN900> ShadowJK, makes the hardware rather cheap though, no?
May 07 21:48:41 <DocScrutinizer> in fact that's basics about how stuff works, and most of it is sw related
May 07 21:48:44 <GAN900> Venemo, in the land of 12-hour time.
May 07 21:49:01 <Venemo> GAN900, it's 23:47 here
May 07 21:49:37 <DocScrutinizer> good (UGT) morning everybody then
May 07 21:49:37 <GAN900> 17:47 here, but I was saving digits.
May 07 21:49:43 <ShadowJK> GAN900, no not really. It's actually just someone who copy&pasted bits of the ethernet spec, and then someone had to implement it in hardware.
May 07 21:49:51 <ShadowJK> on wireless, which behaves entirely different to wired.
May 07 21:50:09 <Venemo> GAN900, ah. I thought you meant 5:46 AM :P
May 07 21:51:13 <Venemo> ShadowJK, btw, are you an EE too?
May 07 21:51:17 <ShadowJK> Compare to like wimax, which allocates a fixed-length of transmission time (TX and RX) to every station, during which they'll push through as much data as possible. This ensures everyone gets a fair share of spectral bandwidth :-)
May 07 21:51:21 <ShadowJK> Venemo, no
May 07 21:52:05 <Venemo> ShadowJK, you sure do know a lot about this stuff
May 07 21:52:07 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: He's knowledgeable enough to count as junior EE to me
May 07 21:52:08 <ShadowJK> At this point I'm at best some sort of ad-hoc hybrid of unqualified ME and AE :)
May 07 21:52:23 <SpeedEvil> AE?
May 07 21:52:29 <ShadowJK> automation
May 07 21:52:46 <GAN900> ShadowJK, ah, interesting.
May 07 21:52:54 <Venemo> I'm having my first year in uni, studying EE
May 07 21:54:05 * Sicelo_ is still reading that Torvalds link. good reading imo
May 07 21:54:52 <Venemo> Sicelo_, what Torvalds link?
May 07 21:55:37 <DocScrutinizer> eeew, knew it - FRENCH
May 07 21:55:57 <DocScrutinizer> ouch, that headache....
May 07 21:56:12 <SpeedEvil> It's not actually a revealing interrview IMO
May 07 21:56:28 <DocScrutinizer> wtf, you all read that?
May 07 21:56:34 <Sicelo_> the one DocScrutinizer gave: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel/openmoko-cdevel.20110506.tx
May 07 21:56:38 <Sicelo_> t
May 07 21:56:43 <Sicelo_> yay :P
May 07 21:56:46 <DocScrutinizer> meh, that's a chanlog
May 07 21:57:15 <Venemo> Sicelo_, how is that a "Torvalds link"?
May 07 21:57:26 <DocScrutinizer> yeah .oO(???)
May 07 21:57:37 <DocScrutinizer> I'm not Linus ;-P
May 07 21:58:23 <Sicelo_> maybe wrong wording Venemo :-S
May 07 21:58:23 <DocScrutinizer> I guess he did a ECNP
May 07 21:58:29 <Venemo> wut?
May 07 21:58:37 <DocScrutinizer> c&p ERROR
May 07 21:58:48 <Venemo> aah.
May 07 21:58:59 <Sicelo_> i'm reading it via lynx, and it looks like an interview to me ;)
May 07 21:59:14 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-05-07 23:20:45] <nox-> that reminds me of...  http://linuxfr.org/news/linus-torvalds-l%E2%80%99interview-anniversaire-des-20%A0ans-du-noyau#comment-1230981
May 07 21:59:32 <Venemo> ah
May 07 21:59:34 <Sicelo_> omg
May 07 21:59:42 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo_: please quote like 8 words of it
May 07 21:59:47 <Sicelo_> that's the one i meant
May 07 21:59:52 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, it gives me an error
May 07 22:00:17 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: forget it, it's friggin froggy french
May 07 22:00:35 <nox-> well there is the original en interview in it too
May 07 22:00:50 <nox-> thats what the #comment tag is
May 07 22:00:51 <Venemo> heh
May 07 22:01:03 * nox- doesnt speak fr either :)
May 07 22:01:05 <Sicelo_> my bad
May 07 22:04:45 <SpeedEvil> http://linuxfr.org/nodes/85904/comments/1230981 - it's in english
May 07 22:05:00 <SpeedEvil> So the first and the very negative answer is that I absolutely despise the people who try to push the GPL as being about "ethics".
May 07 22:05:01 <SpeedEvil> I think that's absolute bullshit. Why? Because ethics are to me something private. Whenever you use it as an argument for why somebody_else should do something, you're no longer being ethical, you're just being a sanctimonious dick-head.
May 07 22:05:18 <Sicelo_> that's the one i'm reading
May 07 22:05:24 <ruskie> haha
May 07 22:05:34 <ruskie> guess he has a skewed reality field
May 07 22:05:47 <Sicelo_> i'm here now: LinuxFR : Various people criticized kernel security. Do you think..
May 07 22:08:33 <Sicelo_> wow.. him comments on openbsd :D
May 07 22:08:42 <Sicelo_> s/him/his
May 07 22:08:52 <ruskie> wasn't that the wanking monkeys one?
May 07 22:09:31 <Sicelo_> Linus Torvalds : I think that any single-purpose OS project is a failure, and it doesn't matter what the purpose is. Security on its own is not a worthy goal - you need to have users for security to even matter in the first place.
May 07 22:14:45 <ruskie> well the point is they have users
May 07 22:16:07 <Sicelo_> true that
May 07 22:16:31 <ruskie> but frankly all these charismatic leaders tend to be full of bull anyway ;)
May 07 22:16:50 <Sicelo_> u mean linus?
May 07 22:17:00 <ruskie> among them yeah
May 07 22:17:40 <GAN900> ruskie, seems so, doesn't it?
May 07 22:17:54 <GAN900> Besides, Linus is an Android supporter. The bastard.
May 07 22:18:05 <Corsac> well, at least android has users
May 07 22:18:31 <Sicelo_> yeah.. i noticed his android comments too
May 07 22:18:36 <GAN900> At what cost, though.
May 07 22:20:10 <GAN900> I think Android has probably stolen a whole generation of open source programmers and enthusiasts.
May 07 22:20:37 <Venemo> android is horseshit
May 07 22:21:52 <GAN900> It's a con job
May 07 22:22:21 * ruskie wants to bash head into wall until brain splatters...
May 07 22:22:32 <GAN900> Sounds like fun.
May 07 22:22:45 <GAN900> Or maybe sounds like me trying to get Natty to behave.
May 07 22:22:47 <ruskie> bosses for some insane reason seem to want to developed mobile apps...
May 07 22:22:52 <ruskie> or even do cloud services
May 07 22:22:55 <ruskie> aarrrgghhh
May 07 22:23:16 <merlin1991> ~seen khertan
May 07 22:23:26 <infobot> khertan <~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-191-117.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 4d 5h 31m 7s ago, saying: 'i didn't think :)'.
May 07 22:23:31 <Sicelo_> i gotta sleep now
May 07 22:23:59 * Sicelo_ only wishes he could do something for maemo community
May 07 22:38:53 <Venemo> GAN900, Natty?
May 07 22:44:28 <MohammadAG> Venemo, Ubuntu 11.04
May 07 22:46:41 <Venemo> MohammadAG, aah. you could just say bugbuntu n+1
May 07 22:46:50 <GAN900> Yes, that.
May 07 22:46:52 <Venemo> :P
May 07 22:52:38 <DocScrutinizer> buntkuh
May 07 22:52:47 <DocScrutinizer> ~buntkuh
May 07 22:53:09 <DocScrutinizer> infobot: await a lesson later on
May 07 22:53:40 <DocScrutinizer> booze
May 07 22:54:23 <DocScrutinizer> on a last remark: couldn't agree more with Linus
May 07 22:55:34 <DocScrutinizer> just he completely ignores most of andidiot folks are dickheads who don't care about anything except their own little thing
May 07 22:57:24 <DocScrutinizer> seeing where android came from, that's quite natural
May 07 23:00:27 <lolcat> DocScrutinizer: Linus said something about android?
May 07 23:00:51 <Venemo> lolcat, yep
May 07 23:01:32 <Venemo> anyway
May 07 23:01:34 <Venemo> I'm gonna sleep now
May 07 23:01:36 <Venemo> bb
May 07 23:02:12 <lolcat> Venemo: Link?
May 07 23:02:20 <lolcat> Venemo: Are you Torvald Linus?
May 07 23:02:47 <Venemo> lolcat, scrollback.... voilá: http://linuxfr.org/nodes/85904/comments/1230981
May 07 23:03:05 <Venemo> lolcat, it's an inteview with Linux.
May 07 23:03:08 <Venemo> lolcat, it's an inteview with Linus
May 07 23:19:44 <lolcat> Venemo: Cool
May 07 23:23:28 <MohammadAG> we need a vbulliten app
May 07 23:23:56 <lolcat> We need a wheater app that shows images of raindrops and a windshield wiper when it is raining
May 07 23:44:17 <Sc0rpius> does anybody knows how to turn stderr in the console in the N900?
May 07 23:44:29 <Sc0rpius> because it is totally ignored
May 07 23:44:42 <Sc0rpius> if I run the same program in scratchbox I can see all the stderr output
May 07 23:44:44 <Sc0rpius> but none in the device
May 07 23:46:26 <ShadowJK> and you're starting them from a terminal in both cases?
May 07 23:46:43 <Sc0rpius> yeah
May 07 23:47:34 <ShadowJK> Well that's very strange then, because when you start it from a working terminal, the stdout and stderr gets connected to the terminal
May 07 23:47:37 <MohammadAG> is there a way to debug an app launched with dbus?
May 07 23:47:46 <ShadowJK> lol
May 07 23:47:55 <Sc0rpius> hmm
May 07 23:48:02 <Sc0rpius> and a echo thing >/dev/stderr works
May 07 23:48:10 <Sc0rpius> maybe it's not stderr what I'm looking for
May 07 23:48:33 <Sc0rpius> [13534]: GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - SaveToDraftsMenu: missing action ActionsSaveToDrafts
May 07 23:48:39 <MohammadAG> my app crashes when launched with DBus, but not when launched from terminal
May 07 23:48:41 <Sc0rpius> I want those kind of lines to show in the device
May 07 23:48:56 <ShadowJK> I've seen those when I've launched stuff from xterm
May 07 23:49:11 <MohammadAG> syslog
May 07 23:49:24 <ShadowJK> I don't think that goes to syslog :-)
May 07 23:50:01 <DocScrutinizer> /dev/stderr is quite probably sth different than fileahndle 2 of a process
May 07 23:50:28 <ShadowJK> MohammadAG, if it's your own app, then at the starting of the app I'd just reassign stdout/stderr to a file somewhere if such output is what you're after
May 07 23:50:47 <DocScrutinizer> echo this-goes-to-stderr 2>&1 is
May 07 23:50:49 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, nah, the app is closed for some reason
May 07 23:50:50 <DocScrutinizer> it
May 07 23:50:54 <ShadowJK> There's also easy methods for sending stuff to syslog, not that I rememver what hte functions are called
May 07 23:50:59 <MohammadAG> so I want to debug segfaults
May 07 23:51:46 <MohammadAG> isn't there a way to prevent the app from closing on segfault?
May 07 23:52:01 <nox-> attach a gdb?
May 07 23:52:16 <nox-> or enable coredumps if that works on n900
May 07 23:52:50 <MohammadAG> nox-, doesn't that prevent the app from doing what it normally does?
May 07 23:53:09 <nox-> well you'd hit c for continue
May 07 23:53:31 <nox-> and maybe tell gdb to pass one or the other signal thru
May 07 23:53:32 <ShadowJK> If it receives alot of signals normally, you'd tell gdb to ignore those
May 07 23:53:36 <nox-> yeah
May 07 23:53:37 <Sc0rpius> MohammadAG is right, those go to /var/log/messages with syslog
May 07 23:53:49 <ShadowJK> awesome
May 07 23:54:35 <nox-> if coredumps work you can also look at those with gdb after a crash
May 07 23:54:59 * nox- just never tried that on the device :)
May 07 23:55:18 <MohammadAG> they work, I just don't know how to enable them :p
May 07 23:55:34 <nox-> ulimit -c unlimited?
May 07 23:55:39 <nox-> or is there more to it?
May 07 23:56:23 <MohammadAG> Program terminated with signal SIGKILL, Killed.
May 07 23:56:24 <MohammadAG> The program no longer exists.
May 07 23:56:24 <MohammadAG> wtf
May 07 23:56:34 <ShadowJK> heh
May 07 23:56:38 <MohammadAG> SIGKILL isn't a segfault
May 07 23:56:43 <nox-> true
May 07 23:56:43 <MohammadAG> why the fuck is it getting killed
May 07 23:56:48 <nox-> might just be oom
May 07 23:56:57 <DocScrutinizer> ooops, of course 1>&2
May 07 23:56:59 <MohammadAG> oom?
May 07 23:57:07 <ShadowJK> There's that thing with Maemo, iirc, where you have to reply to something or other to let it know you're alive, or else it kills you
May 07 23:57:08 <nox-> out of memory
May 07 23:57:12 <nox-> (resp swap)
May 07 23:57:20 <ShadowJK> OOM would be in dmesg
May 07 23:57:53 <MohammadAG> nothing about that
May 07 23:57:53 <MohammadAG> and wtf is it with the [42388.512329] wl1251: ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up errors
May 07 23:58:11 <DocScrutinizer> there's been that funny stuff that killed apps like 60s after starting them
May 07 23:58:24 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, this is it
May 07 23:58:35 <DocScrutinizer> was sth very star
May 07 23:58:39 <DocScrutinizer> strange
May 07 23:58:48 <nox-> killing it with the big hammer?
May 07 23:58:49 <MohammadAG> I hope this isn't the hildon-desktop hibernate feature
May 07 23:59:06 <nox-> sigkill isnt very nice :P
May 07 23:59:15 <ShadowJK> are you getting killed 60s after start?
May 07 23:59:36 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: yeah, seems so
May 07 23:59:45 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, yeah
May 07 23:59:48 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: what was that?
May 07 23:59:49 <ShadowJK> the wl1251 error indicates weak signal or access point with uncooperative power saving features
May 07 23:59:55 <MohammadAG> I didn't time it but
May 07 23:59:59 * MohammadAG tarts apt
May 08 00:00:04 <MohammadAG> starts app* even
May 08 00:00:32 <DocScrutinizer> a lot of apps had that eventually
May 08 00:00:45 <DocScrutinizer> was a weird little bit
May 08 00:00:50 <ShadowJK> If I remember correctly, there is thing that specifically requires a response (or a message) within X seconds of getting started, or else hildon or libosso or whatever kills it
May 08 00:00:56 <ShadowJK> But I don't remember the details
May 08 00:00:57 <DocScrutinizer> like stdout not assigned or whatever
May 08 00:01:09 <ShadowJK> IIRC, in the N8x0 days it was even on a developer FAQ somewhere.
May 08 00:01:57 <MohammadAG> killed
May 08 00:02:06 <MohammadAG> so it's two minutes actually
May 08 00:02:08 <DocScrutinizer> registering it with osso-service-name in .desktop to dbus though it's not a dbus aware app
May 08 00:02:11 <DocScrutinizer> whatever
May 08 00:02:21 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, two minutes
May 08 00:02:26 <DocScrutinizer> dbus timeout
May 08 00:02:31 <DocScrutinizer> probably
May 08 00:02:32 <ShadowJK> If he's starting it via dbus maybe it implies it should be dbus aware
May 08 00:02:49 <MohammadAG> I've had apps not dbus aware started via DBus
May 08 00:02:51 <DocScrutinizer> maybe then it should also register with dbus
May 08 00:02:53 <MohammadAG> and they never had this
May 08 00:03:07 <DocScrutinizer> no idea really, just handwaving
May 08 00:03:19 <DocScrutinizer> I know it was a nasty little detail
May 08 00:04:05 <MohammadAG> hmm
May 08 00:04:05 <MohammadAG> I think it's a line in the .desktop file
May 08 00:04:11 <MohammadAG> X-Osso-Type=application/x-executable
May 08 00:04:12 <DocScrutinizer> me too
May 08 00:04:16 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 08 00:04:21 <MohammadAG> we'll know in 10s
May 08 00:04:34 <DocScrutinizer> that's the dbus thing I meant
May 08 00:04:54 <DocScrutinizer> nah, in 10?
May 08 00:05:01 <DocScrutinizer> rather in 130
May 08 00:05:08 <MohammadAG> nope, killed :/
May 08 00:05:21 <nox-> stupid q: what does osso stand for anyway :)
May 08 00:05:39 <DocScrutinizer> open source software Oslo
May 08 00:05:44 <DocScrutinizer> j/k
May 08 00:06:00 <nox-> hah
May 08 00:06:10 <ShadowJK> open source software operations
May 08 00:06:24 <DocScrutinizer> sth about Nokia's FOSS software anyway
May 08 00:06:31 <nox-> ah
May 08 00:07:16 <MohammadAG> Open Source (ha) Software Operations
May 08 00:07:33 <DocScrutinizer> incredible nobody here knows what's that kill-after-120s issue been
May 08 00:10:09 <MohammadAG> well, psfreedom doesn't get killed
May 08 00:10:10 <DocScrutinizer> ohI think if you start an app via dbus, it has to register to dbus under same name, or sth like that
May 08 00:10:20 <MohammadAG> and it's pretty much the same (no DBus awareness etc)
May 08 00:10:40 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
May 08 00:10:44 <MohammadAG> and it uses 13MBs of RAM
May 08 00:10:54 <MohammadAG> I  have to say, for two buttons, that's quite a lot
May 08 00:11:04 * MohammadAG criticizes past coding skills
May 08 00:11:30 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: try to make sure your stdin and stdout and stderr are closed or redirected to /dev/null
May 08 00:11:48 <DocScrutinizer> maybe that's the trick
May 08 00:11:53 <MohammadAG> both apps use qDebug()
May 08 00:12:03 <MohammadAG> nah, that's not it
May 08 00:12:22 <DocScrutinizer> you *googled* ?
May 08 00:13:10 <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Black-Unlocked-Smartphone-/260779780473?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item3cb7afa979 amused
May 08 00:13:46 <MohammadAG> yes I have DocScrutinizer
May 08 00:14:11 <lolcat> SpeedEvil: What is fun about that?
May 08 00:14:54 <SpeedEvil> lolcat: Note the aquatic flightless bird.
May 08 00:15:27 <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-GOLD-BL-5J-BUSINESS-BATTERY-NOKIA-N900-5800-/200605413295?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2eb503afaf 1930mAh bl5j!
May 08 00:15:41 * SpeedEvil suspects not.
May 08 00:16:20 <lolcat> There where a thread about a better N900 battery, not the bigger one, but one that had more capacity than it should
May 08 00:18:42 <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-GOLD-BL-5J-BUSINESS-BATTERY-NOKIA-N900-5800-/320658428835?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4aa8bb53a3
May 08 00:18:52 <SpeedEvil> hmm - I can't pick iup the qrcode on that one
May 08 00:18:57 <SpeedEvil> Is it a real qrcode?
May 08 00:21:36 <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-n900-Faulty-excellent-condition-/300554668303?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item45fa74490f Is this a barred phone?
May 08 00:21:46 * SpeedEvil should probably stop linkspamming.
May 08 00:28:32 <arvut> how do I check the cpu temp in xterm?
May 08 00:28:43 <arvut> of my n900 ofcourse
May 08 00:28:51 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: at least I now recall Fahrplan had the same problem
May 08 00:30:16 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: so maybe in tmo fahrplan thread you find the answer
May 08 00:35:54 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=575969#post575969
May 08 00:37:54 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, making a wrapper script and starting it with run-standalone.sh is a workaround
May 08 00:38:18 <DocScrutinizer> hmhm
May 08 00:39:19 <SpeedEvil> arvut: there is no reliably working temperature sensor on the CPU
May 08 00:40:36 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/fahrplan/0.0.7/ *quit fix  - whatever that means
May 08 00:41:30 <nox-> osso_context_t *osso_ctx = osso_initialize (PACKAGE, VERSION, FALSE, NULL);
May 08 00:41:40 <nox-> in one of the postings
May 08 00:41:51 <DocScrutinizer> ?
May 08 00:42:05 <nox-> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?s=241fc3b109055b3a1271a10dffa6931d&p=587103&postcount=76
May 08 00:42:06 <DocScrutinizer> on fahrplan?
May 08 00:42:09 <nox-> yeah
May 08 00:42:20 <DocScrutinizer> aah
May 08 00:44:41 <MohammadAG> I don't want osso at all in my app
May 08 00:46:38 <DocScrutinizer> well, starting via dbus IS an osso thing
May 08 00:46:50 <DocScrutinizer> I guess
May 08 00:48:54 <DocScrutinizer> by your wraper script, you get the "osso" in the shell/xterm I'd assume, so the function that waits for some magic on dbus after starting the app gets satisfied by that
May 08 00:50:06 <MohammadAG> hmm, true
May 08 00:50:11 <pronto> mmmm cookies
May 08 00:50:15 <MohammadAG> I'm just a bit surprised I didn't notice this till now
May 08 00:50:17 <DocScrutinizer> quite obviously that's the hardcoded timeout of dbus anyway
May 08 00:50:23 <pronto> :( i dont think im allowed in this channel anymore D:
May 08 00:51:00 <pronto> (i got a new phone today, thats not an n900)
May 08 00:51:07 <MohammadAG> KICK HIM!
May 08 00:51:16 <pronto> D:
May 08 00:51:16 <MohammadAG> oh wait, torture him first
May 08 00:51:18 <DocScrutinizer> not yet, but soon
May 08 00:51:20 <MohammadAG> :P
May 08 00:51:28 <pronto> i still has my n900
May 08 00:51:38 <pronto> i jsut wanted to unlock my phone with my finger print o_o
May 08 00:51:47 <MohammadAG> Atrix?
May 08 00:52:04 <MohammadAG> biometric locks are overrated, had them in my Pocket PC
May 08 00:52:14 <pronto> yeah atrix
May 08 00:52:19 <pronto> it was $150 today
May 08 00:52:27 <MohammadAG> I heard the voice quality's crappy (not trolling)
May 08 00:52:31 <MohammadAG> holy shit that's cheap
May 08 00:52:35 <MohammadAG> subsidized?
May 08 00:52:43 <pronto> MohammadAG: it cant be wrose the then n900
May 08 00:52:51 <DocScrutinizer> wut?
May 08 00:52:51 <pronto> and i tested it for about two hours today seemed good enough
May 08 00:52:55 <MohammadAG> nah, the N900's voice quality is superb imo
May 08 00:53:18 <DocScrutinizer> absolutely
May 08 00:54:32 <DocScrutinizer> voice quality is last thing to argue about on N900
May 08 00:55:20 <DocScrutinizer> is as good as it gets
May 08 00:56:15 <MohammadAG> yeah, the best two phones I've talked on are the N900 and the iPhone 4 (given it has a case on it)
May 08 00:56:16 <DocScrutinizer> even speakerphone is excellent
May 08 00:56:50 <DocScrutinizer> though a lil bit more sensitivity on mic would be nice
May 08 01:00:20 <DocScrutinizer> pronto: if you had poor voice audio on N900, you should ask for a replacement
May 08 01:00:28 <DocScrutinizer> probably sth is broken
May 08 01:00:29 <pronto> *shrugs*
May 08 01:32:14 <SpeedEvil> http://blogs.sonyericsson.com/developerworld/2011/05/06/how-to-build-a-linux-kernel/
May 08 01:32:15 <SpeedEvil> hmm
May 08 02:02:16 <DocScrutinizer> yay, what a statement
May 08 02:02:43 <DocScrutinizer> sonyericsson going to teach us how to do it right?
May 08 02:03:35 <DocScrutinizer> I'm somehow reluctant to click this link, dunno why, may sth to do with my adrenaline or my heartburn
May 08 02:04:26 <psycho_oreos> somehow I could think of it as how to install their custom linux that is laden with DRM loving softwares
May 08 02:04:46 <DocScrutinizer> none the better
May 08 02:05:42 <psycho_oreos> a clean linux that doesn't have any of the sony's backdoored or otherwise scms patented crap would be a hell lot better
May 08 02:06:30 <DocScrutinizer> makes me yawn, still not even going to click on that URL
May 08 02:07:27 <DocScrutinizer> hay, maybe they tell us how to avoid security vulnerabilities in linux servers ;-P
May 08 02:08:00 <DocScrutinizer> so you don't watch somebody downloading 110mio of your customer data records
May 08 02:08:16 <psycho_oreos> and get sued by the millions :)
May 08 02:08:30 <DocScrutinizer> hrhrhr >:-)
May 08 02:09:08 <DocScrutinizer> it's not been a trick, it's just sony
May 08 02:09:22 <psycho_oreos> and then find some lame excuse to blame on.. oh noez! anonymous was ere!
May 08 02:10:11 <DocScrutinizer> wait, is Sony = Japan as well?
May 08 02:10:56 <DocScrutinizer> seems there's a culture of publishing negative facts late and partially
May 08 02:10:57 <psycho_oreos> Sony's headquarters is in Japan yes
May 08 02:11:33 <DocScrutinizer> then bow down deep and beg for pardon
May 08 02:11:47 <psycho_oreos> there's lots of hatred on sony and they should continue hating imo :D. They (sony) screwed people around the world several times
May 08 02:11:50 <DocScrutinizer> but actually do nothing
May 08 02:12:38 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, point is, if sony's giving people an unlocked bootloader that's a huge step forwards
May 08 02:15:42 <psycho_oreos> the question will be: for how long will they momentarily play nice? like how they treated ps3 linux owners with otherOS?
May 08 02:16:10 <MohammadAG> till geohot the II shows up :P
May 08 02:19:29 <psycho_oreos> I'll be honest here, I really don't see geohot being the culprit, he just likes attention and if sony has a flaw in their system, they should cop it and fix it rather than disabling the whole damn thing thereby pissing their linux community off. On top of that making ostracising comments like,"If you want to keep your OtherOS and don't want to play online with PSN, you don't have to upgrade."
May 08 02:19:45 <DocScrutinizer> I won't give a single thought about Sony
May 08 02:20:04 <psycho_oreos> I wished they rot in hell
May 08 02:22:20 <DocScrutinizer> I'm simply not interested in either Sony hw details nor any Sony sw. I got several Sony devices and always found they are of rather questionable quality hw wise, nifty but flimsy or buggy same time
May 08 02:23:02 <DocScrutinizer> there's even been a time where you got service manuals for free from Sony
May 08 02:23:26 <DocScrutinizer> but they didn't help too much as their hw was unserviceable
May 08 02:25:15 <DocScrutinizer> the cutest thing ever been their scoopman
May 08 02:26:30 <DocScrutinizer> I never dared to open it, after studying the service manual. seems they used one flexible PCB and folded it to 7 layers, in a device hardly half the size of a pack of cigarettes
May 08 02:28:11 <Sazpaimon> you guys dont realize how dissapointed I am that I can't play VVVVVV at full speed on my N900
May 08 02:28:17 <Sazpaimon> its a travesty
May 08 02:29:31 <DocScrutinizer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoopman
May 08 02:29:55 <DocScrutinizer> only scoopman NT-2 there, way larger than my NT-1
May 08 02:31:40 <psycho_oreos> VVVVVV?
May 08 02:32:08 <DocScrutinizer> also what a shit on wikipedia, ""stored memos"" WUT? in stereo-hifi? NT-1 not even had a built-in mic
May 08 02:32:57 <Sazpaimon> psycho_oreos, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VVVVVV
May 08 02:33:24 <Sazpaimon> ive probably played it about a hundred times since i got it last year
May 08 02:33:48 <Sazpaimon> too bad it completely chokes on my phone due to lack of hwaccel in flash
May 08 02:33:53 <Sazpaimon> thanks adobe!
May 08 02:34:50 <Sazpaimon> its definately a great game though
May 08 02:35:51 <psycho_oreos> Sazpaimon, "A Linux version was in development, but eventually cancelled due to technical difficulties." - LOL
May 08 02:36:19 <DocScrutinizer> ohmy
May 08 02:36:20 <Sazpaimon> yeah because its annoying to pack a flash file into a linux executable
May 08 02:36:27 <Sazpaimon> trust me I've tried
May 08 02:36:34 <psycho_oreos> its so adobe for you
May 08 02:36:41 <DocScrutinizer> flash IS annoying
May 08 02:36:41 <Sazpaimon> its not worth the effort and youre better off running the exe in wine
May 08 02:37:05 <psycho_oreos> emulated wine inside qemu
May 08 02:37:07 <psycho_oreos> heh
May 08 02:37:11 <Sazpaimon> that said, I have an swf version of the game
May 08 02:37:26 <Sazpaimon> i extracted the swf from the exe and decompiled it, and removed any security stuff that prevented it from running
May 08 02:37:47 <DocScrutinizer> what a friggin weird shit
May 08 02:38:07 <Sazpaimon> it runs perfectly fine on my desktop browser, but my n900 plays it at like half speed
May 08 02:38:20 <DocScrutinizer> obviously done by fools who had more an idea of how to PLAY a agme than how to CODE it
May 08 02:38:48 <Sazpaimon> DocScrutinizer, the AS is pretty solid
May 08 02:38:52 <DocScrutinizer> flash packed into an exe, cmon
May 08 02:39:02 <Sazpaimon> DocScrutinizer, its very commonplace actually
May 08 02:39:17 <Sazpaimon> lots of developers pack an swf into an embedded flash player
May 08 02:39:20 <DocScrutinizer> yeah fools and noobs are pretty common, agreed
May 08 02:39:39 <Sazpaimon> flash CS3 and up i believe have that feature included
May 08 02:40:06 <Sazpaimon> because believe it or not, not everyone has a standalone flash player installe
May 08 02:40:07 <Sazpaimon> d
May 08 02:40:12 <Sazpaimon> nor do they want to do so to play a game
May 08 02:40:38 <DocScrutinizer> indeed I don't even want to play any flash based game
May 08 02:41:10 <DocScrutinizer> unless it's maybe some simple shit embedded in a webpage
May 08 02:41:10 <Sazpaimon> so its not unheard of or even bad practice to publish a flash game with an embedded flash player as an exe
May 08 02:41:15 <Sazpaimon> so it "just works"
May 08 02:41:34 <psycho_oreos>  /* the joys of 5th generation programming language is ever more friendly with humans to the point of which people just bury their heads in and forget about its predecessors and how much more friendlier it would have been to the machine rather than to humans.*/
May 08 02:41:39 <DocScrutinizer> as I said above, fools and noobs...
May 08 02:41:49 <Sazpaimon> i think adobe officially calls it a projector
May 08 02:42:24 <Sazpaimon> yeah thats what they call it
May 08 02:42:32 <DocScrutinizer> I don't give a flying fart what Adobe calls it
May 08 02:43:25 <DocScrutinizer> adobe reached the point where they're on par with M$ on my hate-list
May 08 02:43:44 <Sazpaimon> i detect some mad here
May 08 02:43:46 <Sazpaimon> are you.. mad
May 08 02:43:47 <Sazpaimon> bro?
May 08 02:44:57 <DocScrutinizer> I suggest you publish your games as .xls (win7 format) rather than flash
May 08 02:45:22 <DocScrutinizer> way less proprietary
May 08 02:46:04 <Sazpaimon> yes, definately some mad going around here
May 08 02:46:10 <DocScrutinizer> sure
May 08 02:46:19 <Sazpaimon> don't worry, doc, I'm here for you
May 08 02:46:23 <Sazpaimon> come here, I'll hold you
May 08 02:46:28 <DocScrutinizer> meh
May 08 02:46:30 <Sazpaimon> there there, its okay
May 08 02:46:37 <Sazpaimon> the adobe monsters can't hurt you anymore
May 08 02:46:52 * DocScrutinizer heads out to find a hooker to beat him with a whip written adobe on it
May 08 02:48:42 <DocScrutinizer> all hail to apple for banning flash from their phones
May 08 02:49:55 <GeneralAntilles> Ok, how do I unload the Intel GPU driver to see if it's the source of resume problems?
May 08 02:50:13 <DocScrutinizer> erhm
May 08 02:50:31 <DocScrutinizer> unload like in? modprobe -r ?
May 08 02:50:39 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that.
May 08 02:50:52 * GeneralAntilles has lost all brain capacity tonight pounding his head against multiple technical barriers.
May 08 02:50:58 <DocScrutinizer> well, lsmod and pick your fav
May 08 02:51:23 * GeneralAntilles just wants a working laptop.
May 08 02:51:33 <DocScrutinizer> I doubt the system will like that though
May 08 02:51:42 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, buntkuh?
May 08 02:51:51 <GeneralAntilles> Good, inflicting suffering on Ubuntu? Yes.
May 08 02:53:17 <DocScrutinizer> there's some advice about how to unload drivers prior to suspend and load it after resume
May 08 02:53:40 <DocScrutinizer> there are means for that, to deal with drivers not behaving
May 08 02:54:07 <DocScrutinizer> you don't want to do that manually
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 08 02:59:58 2011