**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 12 02:59:58 2011
May 12 03:15:06 <Kilroo> This is weird...the rmmod trick seems to have stopped working.
May 12 03:59:02 <Kilroo> I wonder if this was the wrong meego to try out.
May 12 03:59:59 <Kilroo> Seems all right so far, just slow as molasses
May 12 04:00:22 <Kilroo> which is probably moreso the fault of my sd card
May 12 04:15:30 <Jade> hi
May 12 04:27:59 <Kilroo> Rats!
May 12 05:23:12 <RST38h> The U.S. government spent $2 trillion combating bin Laden over the past decade, more than 20 percent of the nations $9.68 trillion public debt.
May 12 05:26:03 <derf> That's okay, we spent something like $20tln bailing out Wall Street in 2008 and 2009 alone.
May 12 05:26:17 <derf> Though of course most of that will never show up on the books.
May 12 05:46:46 <RST38h> derf: hasn't most of this money been returned to the fed though?
May 12 05:47:57 * slonopotamus wonders when the hell diablo extras sign key will be fixed
May 12 05:48:06 <derf> RST38h: No, the Fed got "collateral", otherwise known as the worthless shit they couldn't sell on the open market.
May 12 05:48:14 <derf> Priced at whatever the banks said it was worth.
May 12 05:49:16 <derf> But the Fed is only part of the picture... there were at least a dozen different programs beyond the famous ones like TARP.
May 12 05:49:42 <RST38h> What a fail in the making...
May 12 05:50:23 <derf> My favorite being ABCPMMMFLF.
May 12 05:50:58 <RST38h> OMG google actually finds this thing
May 12 05:51:06 <derf> I'm not making this up.
May 12 05:51:32 <RST38h> Some bureaucrat had vivid bureaucratic imagination
May 12 05:51:45 <derf> It was their finest hour, I'm sure.
May 12 05:51:52 <achipa> Venemo: no, but the gl stuff can be tricky, i.e. die because of not apparent reasons
May 12 05:52:22 <RST38h> going-to-work time...
May 12 06:50:11 <Termana> good morning
May 12 07:27:50 <mece> I can has final qtmobility1.2 for maemo plz?
May 12 07:33:21 <mece> hello
May 12 07:33:46 <achipa> me yesiree, one fresh qtmobility1.2 coming up
May 12 07:33:52 <achipa> mece: ^^
May 12 07:34:22 <achipa> also will update the qtm-11 packages to 1.1.3
May 12 07:37:30 <mece> WOOHOO!
May 12 07:38:08 <mece> I'm actually having some trouble with qml-location plugin, hopefully it will work with the final version
May 12 07:38:38 <mece> qml location stuff is absolutely epic! I already have like 10 apps planned.
May 12 07:38:47 <mece> Also, can we push it to extras now that it's final?
May 12 07:43:04 <Venemo> mece, what're those 10 apps?
May 12 07:43:17 <mece> ok maybe a small exaggeration
May 12 07:46:36 <mece> one is a program where you track friends who share location in realtime (0.5 - 1  updates per second) and another is a tourism map thing for certain areas in the baltic sea (Turku archipelago in Finland, the Estonian islands and Roslagen in Sweden)
May 12 07:47:42 <mece> I have some other vague plans too, but nothing concrete
May 12 07:49:49 <mece> achipa, anyway in qml, MapMouseArea and MapCircle for example doesn't work properly in the current version of qtm12 for maemo.
May 12 07:51:57 <mece> I love that we're first with everything new :)
May 12 08:13:57 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, yeah, you gather correctly
May 12 08:57:32 <DocScrutinizer> mece: yeah, esp with unique new bugs ;-D
May 12 08:59:54 <DocScrutinizer> "sorry developer. We have to report that qtm is broken to the bones, and your app using qtm can't qualify for extras due to excessive battery drain caused by qtm. Please wait until we *eventually* fix this issue, or rewrite your app to use another API/lib TK thatn qtm"
May 12 09:19:33 <RST38h> Doc: Won't "Fuck off" be more concise, while retaining both the meaning and the tone of the message?
May 12 09:19:35 <mece> DocScrutinizer, a whaa?
May 12 09:20:12 <mece> DocScrutinizer, where did that come from?
May 12 09:21:05 <DocScrutinizer> outa my arse, though *ought* come from qtm devels
May 12 09:21:47 <DocScrutinizer> based on "< MohammadAG > yeah, qtm-sensors eats 35% of my CPU" (OWTTE)
May 12 09:21:53 <mece> is there a particular bug you're referring to?
May 12 09:22:17 <mece> DocScrutinizer, which qtm version was that then?
May 12 09:22:29 <DocScrutinizer> sure, qtfilesensor-object is polling
May 12 09:24:40 <DocScrutinizer> ask MohammadAG
May 12 09:24:40 <RST38h> The funny part is, they would not have to do it if Maemo Platform guys implemented proper Linux-friendly sensor APIs
May 12 09:25:09 <RST38h> For which there even was a bug in Bugzilla, but they disregarded it
May 12 09:25:53 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: listening to lis302 directly is a layering violation as that'S a task best performed by a middleware (like mce, fso) that needs root and exclusive access to sensors like lis302
May 12 09:26:24 <mece> DocScrutinizer, seems to be fixed: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-1505
May 12 09:26:26 <DocScrutinizer> so qtm tries to do things in userland that definitely should be root daemons - this can't pan out
May 12 09:30:42 <ruskie> hehe
May 12 09:30:43 <DocScrutinizer> mece: that's utter bullshit, they simply changed the sampling rate rsp made it user-configurable. It's still polling. POLLING!!! this is absolutely completely definitely brainfucked concept
May 12 09:32:07 <mece> DocScrutinizer, so don't use it.
May 12 09:33:35 <DocScrutinizer> that's what I said: don't use qtm on maemo, it's bad to the bones
May 12 09:34:05 <mece> I want to.
May 12 09:36:46 <DocScrutinizer> so don't hope for your app passing QA as it will rape the battery
May 12 09:37:17 <ShadowJK> is the interrupt line even connected to anything
May 12 09:37:26 <DocScrutinizer> wait, wasn't that exactly what I said initially?
May 12 09:38:17 <ShadowJK> my screen is too small
May 12 09:38:42 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: which one? the both IRQ lines of e.g. lis302dl?of course they are connected to SoC
May 12 09:38:52 <mece> DocScrutinizer, are you saying everything in qtm eats up battery?
May 12 09:39:17 <ShadowJK> Are those IRQs exposed by the kernel?
May 12 09:39:19 <DocScrutinizer> QObject filesensor is broken by design
May 12 09:39:21 <DocScrutinizer> so yes
May 12 09:39:40 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: sure, usually they are
May 12 09:40:04 <ShadowJK> I don't remember seeing them in /sys anywhere
May 12 09:40:04 <DocScrutinizer> one way or another
May 12 09:40:54 <DocScrutinizer> the somewhat suboptimal lis302.ko shall cause a kevent when updating coord
May 12 09:41:11 <DocScrutinizer> it shall update coord when IRQ happens
May 12 09:41:31 <DocScrutinizer> IRQ should fire (set up to do that) when actual device orientatiopn changes
May 12 09:42:34 <DocScrutinizer> a way nicer concept is what we got on OM/OE for lis302.ko, which creates a /dev/input/* device that simply blocks on read until next *new* data from lis302 arrives
May 12 09:43:48 <DocScrutinizer> I.E. until the IRQ of lis302 fires, however it's configured (data-ready which means chip-clocked 'polling', IRQ-WU-FF which can be set via thresholds to fire only when device gets moved...)
May 12 09:45:18 <DocScrutinizer> the upstream lis3lv02.ko driver predates both the maemo and OM driver, and is written with joysticks and coninuous data sampling in mind, so it doesn't support any proper IRQ driven concept
May 12 09:45:47 <mece> DocScrutinizer, curiously the qtm1.2 app I'm running right now uses a massive 1% cpu.
May 12 09:45:50 <DocScrutinizer> for sensors like proxy / ALS sitaution is similar or even worse
May 12 09:46:39 <flux> mece, what is the application doing?
May 12 09:46:47 <DocScrutinizer> constantly using 1% for NOTHING is absolutely no yota better than eating 35%
May 12 09:47:08 <flux> mece, if it's not doing anything, 1% is more than enough for bringing the CPU out of its power saving mode..
May 12 09:47:17 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
May 12 09:47:53 <flux> but, I can understand if some app framework uses polling for sensors. or has someone actually proven (with code) that interrupt-driven IO can bring the same abilities?
May 12 09:48:06 <flux> but if it does everything in a polling manner, then something has gone awfully wrong.
May 12 09:48:28 <mece> well now it's using 0.0% cpu...
May 12 09:48:45 <flux> powertop would tell you if it causes wakeups
May 12 09:48:48 <DocScrutinizer> flux: mce has proven it
May 12 09:48:50 <flux> if not, then it's great
May 12 09:49:04 <flux> docscrutinizer, mce runs as root, though?
May 12 09:49:26 <DocScrutinizer> that's my point, scroll up!
May 12 09:49:51 <flux> well, maybe they don't like to do daemons. once a proper solution arrives, I'd imagine they are happy to use it.
May 12 09:49:57 <achipa> mece: yes, libqtm-12 is going to extras after we give it a shake
May 12 09:50:08 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-05-12 11:23:41] <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: listening to lis302 directly is a layering violation as that'S a task best performed by a middleware (like mce, fso) that needs root and exclusive access to sensors like lis302  [2011-05-12 11:24:14] <DocScrutinizer> so qtm tries to do things in userland that definitely should be root daemons - this can't pan out
May 12 09:50:09 <flux> it doesn't like a great deal of refactoring would be required to make use of better facilities
May 12 09:50:50 <flux> I can understand if some people want to use sensors, but don't want to write system software to do it, if some other way is available.
May 12 09:51:32 <mece> what exactly does "using sensors" mean?
May 12 09:51:32 <achipa> ... hm, should also update the MADDE rootstraps with this one so they would be usable from QtSDK...
May 12 09:52:05 <mece> achipa, yes, it's really annoying to when I can't test stuff on desktop
May 12 09:52:13 <DocScrutinizer> that other way has immanent issues though, as "no resource sharing", "no proper usage of kevent or other sane concepts to keep CPU in c5"...
May 12 09:52:13 <flux> mece, have functionality that depends on sensor input?
May 12 09:52:22 <mece> flux, what counts as sensors?
May 12 09:52:36 <flux> mece, a component that reacts to real-world operations..
May 12 09:52:55 <DocScrutinizer> the whole concept of qtm is buggy
May 12 09:53:02 <mece> flux, umm.. like the keyboard?
May 12 09:53:18 <flux> mece, like a keyboard. keyboards have great interrupt-driven support throughout the systems.
May 12 09:53:18 <DocScrutinizer> in a way that's hard or even impossuble to fix
May 12 09:53:53 <flux> mece, some other sensors, like the proximity sensors, doesn't have that level of support.
May 12 09:54:06 <mece> flux, ok...
May 12 09:54:07 <DocScrutinizer> exactly that's the problem
May 12 09:54:42 <flux> and it's slightly more difficult anyway. for example how do you describe the hardware that exact condition when you want an interrupt, if you're not satisfied with a simple level triggering.
May 12 09:54:54 <flux> and what if there are multiple applications that all want a different triggering level
May 12 09:54:54 <DocScrutinizer> proximity sensor is connected to a CPU GPIO that probably can easily be set up to create an IRQ
May 12 09:55:57 <DocScrutinizer> flux: fuzzy, but to the point however. That's why you need a root middleware sensor handler
May 12 09:56:17 <flux> docscrutinizer, which might just end up polling, if it supports complex triggering events..
May 12 09:56:21 <DocScrutinizer> and that in turn is why qtm never will pan out
May 12 09:56:26 <flux> of course, it's better to have one poller than many
May 12 09:56:44 <DocScrutinizer> nonsense, the hardware is designed to avoid polling
May 12 09:57:36 <DocScrutinizer> there's no such case like mutually exclusive sets of triggers
May 12 09:57:48 <flux> proximity sensor gives our a number I imagine?
May 12 09:57:59 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
May 12 09:58:03 <DocScrutinizer> it gives one bit
May 12 09:58:06 <DocScrutinizer> 1/0
May 12 09:58:28 <DocScrutinizer> to a GPIO (general purpose input/output) of the SoC
May 12 09:58:33 <flux> oh, I was thinking it might have some states in-between as well, the final value being considered as the boolean being a tunable matter.
May 12 09:58:37 <mece> well regardless, DocScrutinizer, you comment that my app that uses qtm12 will drain battery, and thusly not be able to make it to extras, is just plain wrong, even with the problems you're describing, because you actually have to use those components of qtm to have the problems.
May 12 09:59:15 <DocScrutinizer> well, that's true I *guess*
May 12 09:59:41 <DocScrutinizer> I'd hope qtm wouldn't poll sensors if you don't even include or whatever them
May 12 10:00:03 <timeless_w7ip> odd
May 12 10:00:15 <flux> I would expect you need to manually setup the class etc to get access to sensors.
May 12 10:00:15 * timeless_w7ip got a call from "reception" asking about a package
May 12 10:00:50 <flux> timeless_w7ip, but the thing is, you don't have reception?!
May 12 10:00:51 <flux> ;)
May 12 10:00:56 <mece> DocScrutinizer, well as I said it used 0.0% cpu. so qtm location bits seem fine.
May 12 10:01:00 <DocScrutinizer> but then otoh you never know which stuff in qtm is using the sensors for their own purposes, like "QOrientation" (if there's such a thing), display ratio which is based on orientation, etc etc
May 12 10:01:30 <flux> docscrutinizer, how does the current web browser detect the orientation change, btw?
May 12 10:01:40 <flux> I guess it can just use the same mechanism. or if it doesn't, it could in the future.
May 12 10:01:42 <DocScrutinizer> dunno, ask MohammadAG
May 12 10:02:21 <flux> in any case, I can see (reiterating my point) that the QT Mobility team doesn't consider writing daemons to platforms beloinging into the project scope.
May 12 10:02:43 * DocScrutinizer too
May 12 10:02:54 <DocScrutinizer> but that's no excuse for doing botch
May 12 10:03:50 <mece> DocScrutinizer, have you filed bugs?
May 12 10:04:01 <DocScrutinizer> you can't base the architecture of a general purpose lib on what you like to write and what you don't
May 12 10:04:34 <flux> indeed. better say "this is impossible, because it results in non-optimal battery consumption."
May 12 10:04:55 <flux> I really really doubt that is an architectural decision, btw.
May 12 10:05:03 <flux> rather the implementation of one class.
May 12 10:05:12 <flux> qt is really built to be very asynchronous.
May 12 10:08:02 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, I as well wondered why they went for this concept there
May 12 10:08:18 <DocScrutinizer> mece: (ticket) ask Venemo
May 12 10:15:28 <DocScrutinizer> flux: (better say "this is impossible, because it results in non-optimal battery..) also in race conditions when several concurrent apps try to access the same sensor, esp when it's a configurable sensor like lis302dl g-meter that *needs* some reasonable configuration and management
May 12 10:17:22 <DocScrutinizer> flux: this qtm approach is kinda DOS-minded - "I'm *the* (only) app running on this machine, so I can pretty much do what I want as long as I clean up befor quit"
May 12 10:23:15 <timeless_w7ip> flux: correct, the call was from Nokia reception
May 12 10:23:19 <timeless_w7ip> and i don't work for nokia
May 12 10:23:28 <timeless_w7ip> they were very  funny
May 12 10:23:34 <timeless_w7ip> first they accused me of coming in this morning
May 12 10:23:40 <timeless_w7ip> then they accused me of coming in yesterday morning
May 12 10:23:51 <timeless_w7ip> then they accused me of having received a package
May 12 10:24:16 <timeless_w7ip> ... what i actually did was attempt to *leave* a box for nokia <to be trashed by an authorized employee> yesterday afternoon!
May 12 10:25:58 <timeless_w7ip> (it was the box for my corporate DSL modem, i had returned the modem when I resigned and discovered the box later)
May 12 10:41:54 <ShadowJK> You resigned?
May 12 10:43:31 <DocScrutinizer> he did
May 12 10:47:14 <frals> timeless_w7ip: so where are you going now, RIM?
May 12 10:57:20 <RST38h> timeless: No longer at Nokia? Where to then?
May 12 11:03:17 <timeless_w7ip> frals: yes
May 12 11:07:13 * SpeedEvil imagines for a moment RIM going open-source.
May 12 11:07:18 * SpeedEvil has doubts.
May 12 11:07:34 * sp3000 has a cold
May 12 11:07:36 <sp3000> trade?
May 12 11:24:12 <timeless_w7ip> speedevil: these days most companies use some open source software
May 12 11:24:52 <timeless_w7ip> RIM bought Torch Mobile
May 12 11:26:32 <timeless_w7ip> but i won't be working on software
May 12 11:26:39 <timeless_w7ip> so i'm not going to care
May 12 11:26:49 <timeless_w7ip> my goal is to improve the life of normal people
May 12 11:27:06 <timeless_w7ip> and while i work on software, my goal is to develop skills i can market to future employers
May 12 11:27:27 <timeless_w7ip> working on open source software at one employer is a marketable skill when i talk to my next prospective employer
May 12 11:27:37 <timeless_w7ip> working on a product which is full of trade secrets, is not
May 12 11:27:47 <timeless_w7ip> and if that product never ships, then i have very little to show
May 12 11:28:53 <timeless_w7ip> grr
May 12 11:28:56 * timeless_w7ip hates this stuff
May 12 11:29:09 <timeless_w7ip> someone is bugging me to add ~5 extra lines to a patch
May 12 11:29:19 <timeless_w7ip> but that requires getting access to $random_lame_vcs
May 12 11:33:54 <RST38h> "You're awesome! Thanks for trying Google Chrome!" <== what is with the "awesome" part? How is downloading this thing making me awesome?
May 12 11:34:32 * RST38h writes it off as incomprehensible figure of speech
May 12 11:36:16 <ShadowJK> After babysitting users trying to use facebook, just the fact that they manage to click a link and download something makes them quite awesome, relatively speaking
May 12 11:36:21 <robbiethe1st> RST38h: You gave them /free/ data! How much more awesome can you get?
May 12 11:36:48 <RST38h> Not yet.
May 12 11:37:19 <lardman|home> RST38h: they just know that you in particular are awsome because they've already been tracking your web usage ;)
May 12 11:37:27 <lardman|home> or awesome even :)
May 12 11:37:29 <RST38h> Ah
May 12 11:37:37 <RST38h> awwsome, indeed
May 12 11:44:03 <flux> rst38h, you know how everyone thinkgs that they are not special enough to be tracked? well, with google chrome you ARE that awesome!
May 12 11:52:42 <an0therb0x> is it possible to sync n900 contacts with my google contacts ?
May 12 11:57:41 <Venemo_N900> meh
May 12 11:58:02 <Venemo_N900> since I've reflashed my N900, transmission (again) refuses to work
May 12 12:07:44 <Venemo_N900> how can I get apt-get to ignore the dependencies of something?
May 12 12:08:45 <Sicelo_> ~aiui
May 12 12:08:45 <infobot> aiui is, like, As I Understand It
May 12 12:11:24 <mece> Venemo_N900, --ignore-missing
May 12 12:14:14 <Venemo_N900> thx mece
May 12 12:15:32 <Venemo_N900> mece, it doesn't work
May 12 12:16:26 <mece> Venemo_N900, what does it say?
May 12 12:18:30 <Venemo_N900> same thing it says without that option
May 12 12:18:51 <mece> Venemo_N900, bugger. well then wget the deb and do dpkg --force-conflicts -i file.deb
May 12 12:19:46 <mece> Venemo_N900, or you can apt-get --download-only if you don't feel like looking for the file
May 12 12:20:26 <mece> they end up somewhere... was it ~/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/ perhaps
May 12 12:20:53 <mece> anyway good luck with that. I'm off.
May 12 12:25:27 <Venemo_N900> eh
May 12 12:25:34 <Venemo_N900> this crap froze
May 12 12:25:46 <Venemo_N900> and now I get 'readonly filesystem'
May 12 12:31:32 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG, could you repeat me what to do when I get readonly filesystem?
May 12 12:32:25 <trx> actually readonly fs would be usefull when conecting to windows pc's via usb
May 12 12:32:37 <trx> i usually pickup all kind of crap
May 12 12:32:43 <Venemo_N900> hehe
May 12 12:32:49 <Venemo_N900> yeah
May 12 12:36:19 <merlin1991> andjust the mass storage sh? :D
May 12 12:36:24 <merlin1991> *adjust*
May 12 13:52:13 <arvut> haj haj im so..
May 12 13:54:20 <arvut> I think I just came up with an algorithm for a crypto..
May 12 13:55:11 <SpeedEvil> Generally some of the most ill-advised words in coding.
May 12 13:55:41 <SpeedEvil> Right along with 'naah - I don't think I need to salt these passwords'.
May 12 13:56:13 <SpeedEvil> And 'I'll just use the encrypted seconds since epoch as my key.
May 12 14:02:01 <edheldil> SpeedEvil:  exactly
May 12 14:02:28 <ShadowJK> arvut, does it involve ^
May 12 14:13:04 <edheldil> ShadowJK:  no, it does (n+3)%26 with each letter of the plaintext ;-)
May 12 14:14:54 <edheldil> SpeedEvil:  even better is "let's remove this MD_update() since valgrind thinks it's unassigned data" :-D
May 12 14:15:37 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
May 12 14:16:45 <SpeedEvil> That also shows a more subtle problem.
May 12 14:17:00 <SpeedEvil> Namely the lack of reviews in security code.
May 12 14:18:34 <edheldil> One could argue that the act of review was the problem :)
May 12 14:20:44 <SpeedEvil> I suppose that's the major reason why I think linus is wrong that 'security bugs are just bugs'
May 12 14:21:15 <SpeedEvil> In that there is at least a subset of them where tehy work just fine for 'normal' users, and only exhibit flaws for attackers.
May 12 14:29:09 <edheldil> SpeedEvil:  Agreed in the sense that for sys admins deciding whether to install a new kernel there's a huge difference between a bug which does not affect them during normal operation and an exploitable flaw
May 12 14:29:59 <jacekowski> have you heard that nokia has applied for FCC certification for N9
May 12 14:30:07 <SpeedEvil> Not quite that - I mean that security issues may be utterly silent until you have an attacker. It will never ever cause normal users an issue. So it can only be found on cod review.
May 12 14:30:10 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
May 12 14:30:19 * SpeedEvil decides on fish-fingers for tonight.
May 12 14:30:24 <SpeedEvil> And I meant code review of course.
May 12 14:31:13 <Nanohcv> hello, who is responsible for the repositories? Or how can I remove my Application from extras-devel?
May 12 14:31:28 <jacekowski> you can't
May 12 14:31:39 <jacekowski> once uploaded it stays there forever
May 12 14:32:03 <Nanohcv> Nobody can remove it?
May 12 14:32:18 <jacekowski> somebody can remove it
May 12 14:32:21 <jacekowski> but he's not here
May 12 14:33:51 <Nanohcv> thanks! Where can I find somebody? :-)
May 12 14:35:11 <edheldil> Nanohcv:  why remove it? :)
May 12 17:06:16 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: how do you tweak it?
May 12 17:06:41 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: usbnetworking or wifi?
May 12 17:07:01 <DocScrutinizer> what's it?
May 12 17:07:18 <chem|st> ssh to off device it was
May 12 17:07:30 <chem|st> mce.ini you said
May 12 17:08:02 <DocScrutinizer> aah, it seems there's some setting in mce.ini to define if device should stay "online" (aka wifi on) during act_dead
May 12 17:08:33 <chem|st> act_dead is that boot state for charging
May 12 17:08:46 <chem|st> ?!
May 12 17:08:52 <DocScrutinizer> right atm I'm unsure if it's been mce.ini, but I think it was
May 12 17:08:57 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 12 17:09:08 <DocScrutinizer> act_dead is charging while "off"
May 12 17:09:27 <chem|st> so predefined network to logon to by IAP_ID or what?
May 12 17:09:58 <chem|st> have a google search phrase in mind or a link already?
May 12 17:10:11 <DocScrutinizer> I've not looked into it thoroughly, just noticed some comment regarding this somewhere
May 12 17:10:30 <DocScrutinizer> wait a minute
May 12 17:10:37 <chem|st> mmh would be interesting to have it provide an usb interface
May 12 17:11:31 <DocScrutinizer> [SoftPowerOff]
May 12 17:11:32 <DocScrutinizer> # Connectivity policy with charger connected
May 12 17:11:41 <DocScrutinizer> et al, in mce.ini
May 12 17:11:48 <chem|st> softpoweroff is not in use in rx51
May 12 17:12:02 <chem|st> thats for <810 afaik
May 12 17:12:12 <DocScrutinizer> hmmm
May 12 17:12:38 <chem|st> at least that is what I remember from a discussion about that softpoweroff-state
May 12 17:14:24 <chem|st> gtg
May 12 17:17:06 <DocScrutinizer> well, act_dead aka soft-poweroff is an init-state. So you always can tailor etc/rc5(?).d/* to meet your idea of what this state should really do
May 12 17:17:15 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: ^^^
May 12 17:39:05 <blizzow2> I used to have an N900, then I lost it skiing, so I picked up a new one and a new SIM card from T-mobile USA.  I had tethering working on my old N900, but now it doesn't.  I called T-mobile and they said I needed to add a tethering plan to my already unlimited data/web.  I don't believe the customer service guy, does anyone here know how I should be setting up tethering?  (With Ubuntu Natty)
May 12 17:39:31 <DocScrutinizer> pondering about that, I come to think it might well be worth to #define act_sane act_dead
May 12 17:40:15 <Venemo> blizzow2, tethering is not really good without a data plan anyway
May 12 17:41:19 <blizzow2> It worked well enough  with my old N900 Venemo.
May 12 17:41:19 <DocScrutinizer> I.E. make act_dead a state where you get a minimalistic but guaranteed to work system, that's not influenced by any tweaks to normal initstate tweaks like messing with mounts and other tweaks to init, settings, widgets, whatever
May 12 17:41:34 <blizzow2> C0s3.14pho!
May 12 17:42:04 <e-yes> only way to disable tethering i see is set TTL on incoming IP packets to 1. is this what they really do?
May 12 17:42:30 <ShadowJK> does the usual browser work?
May 12 17:44:56 <ShadowJK> 80% C4
May 12 17:45:06 <ShadowJK> quiet time of day on irc I guess
May 12 17:45:13 <Proteous> too quiet
May 12 17:45:18 <Venemo> yeah
May 12 18:00:08 <jacekowski> e-yes: you can work around ttl as well
May 12 18:00:42 <blizzow2> Venemo: plus, I do have a data plan.  From my N900 I can ssh, surf the web, or use bittorrent...  I shouldn't have to pay $15/month just to hook my laptop up to it.
May 12 18:00:49 <e-yes> yea. if so (TTL=1) it's possible to fix it via iptables, me thinks.
May 12 18:01:12 <Venemo> blizzow2, okay, then it should indeed work
May 12 18:01:12 <jacekowski> blizzow2: well, you should
May 12 18:01:24 <jacekowski> blizzow2: T&C says that data plan is to be used only on phone
May 12 18:01:40 <jacekowski> but well, what is the problem
May 12 18:01:47 <jacekowski> you get any error messages or something
May 12 18:22:55 <blizzow2> jacekowski: no error messages.
May 12 18:28:34 <Hukka> Ok... so I updated media player, and now the album list is ignoring my flac albums
May 12 18:29:23 <Hukka> It's not that it doesn't understand the metadata; if I select a file to play via file view, it adds it and the player shows the album and artist correctly
May 12 18:29:41 <Hukka> Nor is it a matter of resetting tracker, did that and it still only adds mp3 albums
May 12 18:42:59 <DocScrutinizer> blizzow2: just ignore that
May 12 18:43:59 <DocScrutinizer> there's basically zero difference between you surfing via microb on N900, and you surfing via FF on PC which it tethered to N900
May 12 18:45:46 <ShadowJK> the point about TTL though..
May 12 18:46:51 <DocScrutinizer> maemo is tethered to modem same way as any buntkuh on a PC, in PC-Suite mode
May 12 18:47:43 <ShadowJK> hm..
May 12 18:49:52 <ds3> use slirp to tether
May 12 18:50:12 <ds3> so it becomes just an app doing weird data access
May 12 18:59:02 <DocScrutinizer> damn, what's been the command to erase single lines from chanlog? povbot! erase RE .*tweak.*tweak.*tweak.* ?
May 12 19:00:27 <DocScrutinizer> sorry for that line, seems I suffered from a general pariry error on stack
May 12 19:03:07 <RST38h> Doc: what line? =)
May 12 19:11:28 <DocScrutinizer> the one matching that RE, isn't that obvious ;-D
May 12 19:22:21 <yigal> how do I completely erase my N900
May 12 19:23:08 <Hukka> Write over with the default images
May 12 19:24:01 <Hukka> Both the "firmware" and the default contents. That restores the 9 trailer etc
May 12 19:24:02 <yigal> I tried with RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin, but I think there's something else I need to use?
May 12 19:24:17 <Hukka> Yeah, that's just the programs, not the contents of the home
May 12 19:24:24 <Hukka> Don't remember the filename, but it's out there
May 12 19:24:45 <yigal> ok, one sec I'll throw names at you
May 12 19:25:04 <Hukka> What was the page?
May 12 19:25:08 <yigal> eMMC image
May 12 19:25:14 <yigal> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php
May 12 19:25:17 <yigal> ?
May 12 19:26:11 <Hukka> yigal: Yeah, that's the one
May 12 19:26:16 <Hukka> The emmc image
May 12 19:26:22 <yigal> cool, thought so :D
May 12 19:26:55 <chx> So anyone knows more about that n900 successor that guy was tweeting about the other day?
May 12 19:27:07 <chx> my finger is twitching to buy a Veer :/
May 12 19:27:08 <yigal> ? sounds cool
May 12 19:27:13 <yigal> chx: :D
May 12 19:27:15 <Hukka> chx: I imagine that if someone does, they can't tell
May 12 19:27:29 <Hukka> Besides, we've had N9 rumours for a year now *sigh*
May 12 19:27:40 <chx> honestly, my problem with the n900 is that it's too large. the Veer looks tiiiiny
May 12 19:28:18 <GeneralAntilles> http://mynokiablog.com/2011/05/11/nokia-rm-680nokia-n950n9-passes-fcc-looks-like-the-qwerty-n9-leaked-from-last-year/
May 12 19:28:53 <chx> OH
May 12 19:29:14 <yigal> similar form factor but 4 row keyboard, thumbs UP
May 12 19:29:56 <yigal> why 3 rows for a hacking device?
May 12 19:30:02 <yigal> could never understand this
May 12 19:30:21 <chx> weight will decide. the 180gr of the n900 is killing me.
May 12 19:30:38 <GeneralAntilles> yigal: keeps your fingers closer to the touchscreen.
May 12 19:30:48 <GeneralAntilles> As Maemo is very touch-oriented, this works out better.
May 12 19:31:32 <yigal> ok, that type of use makes sense, thanks for a sensible rational
May 12 19:31:51 <Venemo> chx, 180g is killing you???
May 12 19:32:09 <yigal> lift some weights good on so many levels
May 12 19:32:17 <chx> yes, a phone shouldnt be more than 100gr
May 12 19:32:24 <chx> i still ues my E51 more because it's light
May 12 19:32:42 <chx> Now come on I exercise daily that does not mean i like a 180gr brick in my pocket :/
May 12 19:32:44 <Venemo> I never understand why people thing that 180g is heavy.
May 12 19:32:49 <yigal> :D
May 12 19:33:04 <GeneralAntilles> chx, a phone, maybe, but a pocketable laptop is something else. ;)
May 12 19:33:09 <Venemo> 20 kg may be heavy. 50 kg is definitely heavy. 180 g is not heavy. at all.
May 12 19:33:33 <yigal> I have a viliv S5 390g, this is still fine with me
May 12 19:33:43 <yigal> but I understand
May 12 19:36:10 * merlin1991 pokes X-Fade cloak?
May 12 19:36:55 <yigal> 30s more of downloading emmc image looking forward to getting my partition back
May 12 19:40:12 <yigal> yes, it's writing, I'm a happy man
May 12 19:51:18 <DocScrutinizer> >>In 1956, the world’s first partly automatic car phone system, Mobile System A (MTA), was launched in Sweden. MTA phones were composed of vacuum tubes and relays, and had a weight of 40 kg<<
May 12 19:51:44 <DocScrutinizer> now THAT'S heavy
May 12 19:51:47 <yigal> but who cares if it's attached to a car
May 12 19:51:57 <RST38h> Not if it is permanently attached to a car
May 12 19:51:59 <RST38h> heh
May 12 19:52:03 <yigal> it's not like you have to heft all 40kg+
May 12 19:52:32 * RST38h actually remembers transistor based systems like that
May 12 19:53:05 <yigal> I've heard carrying ~20% of one's weight continuously is quite good for endurance and overall strength
May 12 19:53:30 <yigal> so maybe that's the way to go, though that's more on the order of ~20kg at most
May 12 19:54:06 <RST38h> Meanwhile, 100% of Fukushima Unit-1 rods are melted
May 12 19:54:33 <yigal> so sad
May 12 19:54:54 <RST38h> so fun
May 12 19:55:36 <Hukka> rd: Apparently they have stopped covering it completely over here
May 12 19:56:36 <yigal> Hukka: here?
May 12 19:56:47 <DocScrutinizer> one time in two years when a hope for somebody jumping up yelling "this is MOT a phone" - meh....
May 12 19:57:28 <yigal> MOT or NOT?
May 12 19:57:29 <DocScrutinizer> N900 definitely is the smallest lightest 600MHz 256MB RAM 32GB storage PC I ever touched
May 12 19:57:35 <yigal> yes
May 12 19:57:38 <DocScrutinizer> NOT of course
May 12 19:57:51 <yigal> sorry I'm being a grammar nazi
May 12 19:58:10 <Hukka> It's not grammar
May 12 19:58:14 <Hukka> It's spelling...
May 12 19:58:26 <Hukka> Sorry for being a semantic smartass
May 12 19:58:27 <yigal> yes
May 12 20:00:10 <yigal> no that's syntax
May 12 20:03:40 <DocScrutinizer> yigal: that's been a typo
May 12 20:04:26 <DocScrutinizer> a simple mechanical 1-off typo
May 12 20:04:50 <DocScrutinizer> at least on NY keyboard ;-P
May 12 20:05:05 <yigal> :D
May 12 20:17:35 <DocScrutinizer> btw syntax definitions only apply loosely to natural speech
May 12 20:18:48 <DocScrutinizer> it even seems natural speech has a fuzzy dynamic syntax, if any
May 12 20:19:04 <DocScrutinizer> ...
May 12 20:19:11 <DocScrutinizer> ;-P
May 12 20:19:18 <DocScrutinizer> imho
May 12 20:19:40 <DocScrutinizer> even ore on IRC (and SMS)
May 12 20:19:45 <DocScrutinizer> Nore
May 12 20:20:06 <DocScrutinizer> XD
May 12 20:52:56 <yigal> DocScrutinizer: tru dat, 4 sure
May 12 20:56:21 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
May 12 20:56:42 <RST38h> "Bin Laden wanted to attack U.S. on 9/11 anniversary" <== so sentimental!
May 12 20:56:44 <DocScrutinizer> fine. I've not been sure about anybody getting my point
May 12 20:57:22 <RST38h> "In one particularly macabre bit of mathematics, bin Laden's writings show him musing over just how many Americans he must kill to force the U.S. to withdraw from the Arab world."
May 12 20:57:54 <SpeedEvil> I'm surprised they haven't brought up his massive porn collection.
May 12 20:58:09 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
May 12 20:58:18 <SpeedEvil> Of him rogering pigs, or something.
May 12 20:58:57 <RST38h> SPeed: probably confiscated it and are now enjoying it themselves
May 12 20:59:07 <DocScrutinizer> completely useless. They've tried this with several al qaida dudes - arab world ignores it
May 12 20:59:35 <RST38h> ok, pigs no longer work, neither do skyscrapers.
May 12 20:59:48 <RST38h> will both sides take it to the next level? =)
May 12 21:00:15 <DocScrutinizer> nothing US can do will impress those fanatics. They don't even believe Al Qaida that bin laden is dead
May 12 21:01:03 <RST38h> hey I do not even wholly believe bin Laden has ever been alive!
May 12 21:01:31 <DocScrutinizer> when sth comes from the west, is related to the west, or involves actions of the west, it's for sure a hoax. At least for them
May 12 21:02:52 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: you're probably pretty close to all fanatic islamists: "Our blood is no real blood. Only your blood is real blood"
May 12 21:04:09 <RST38h> Doc: Nah, that is too deep for me
May 12 21:04:53 <RST38h> Doc: I simply suspect the whole bin Laden craze to be a hoax, on the basis of it being a little bit too convenient
May 12 21:04:56 <DocScrutinizer> seems they have a tendency to think of *this* life as something unreal, and it's a good thing to escape from it
May 12 21:06:03 <DocScrutinizer> so wait 50 years, I bet they tell us Bin Laden never existed as a real human being, but more like some incarnation of god that's immortal by definition
May 12 21:06:15 <RST38h> Doc: This approach is not specific to Islam though, mostly specific to places with a lot of piss poor single 16-25 years old males with no prospects for advancement
May 12 21:06:41 <DocScrutinizer> ack
May 12 21:06:55 <yigal> crusades, poor ass Germany WWII
May 12 21:06:56 <RST38h> Doc: In the middle ages, wars usually took care of weeding these out
May 12 21:07:09 <DocScrutinizer> you forgot "and with abysmal education"
May 12 21:07:11 <yigal> stop the poor ass males from going crazy, please
May 12 21:07:52 <RST38h> yigal: you find a solution for this problem, and they will give you a Nobel Peace Prize at the very least
May 12 21:08:19 <RST38h> [hint: concentration camps have been tried before, think harder]
May 12 21:08:25 <yigal> damnit
May 12 21:08:28 <rm_work> umm, huge porn drops?
May 12 21:08:40 <rm_work> just keep them in their rooms all day
May 12 21:08:40 <Hukka> RST38h: They weren't run by women
May 12 21:09:02 <Hukka> Ergo not all of the poor ass males were on the right side
May 12 21:09:33 <rm_work> IMO free porn == problem solved
May 12 21:09:34 <RST38h> Hukka: this does not actually matter at the end
May 12 21:10:27 <RST38h> Hukka: You have got male group A watching male group B. The only difference between those is the fence placement and the weaponry
May 12 21:10:54 <Hukka> Yeah, but if it was a female group watching the males it might end up differently
May 12 21:11:03 <yigal> :D
May 12 21:11:06 <RST38h> Hukka: Smarter dictators had constant rotation between these two groups
May 12 21:11:11 <Hukka> Might be interesting if all the armed forces were changed female only
May 12 21:11:38 <RST38h> Hukka: "Female group watching the males" is pretty much a definition of any modern education system
May 12 21:11:53 <Hukka> Not in our university it isn't
May 12 21:12:07 <yigal> are you monks or are they all lezbians?
May 12 21:12:12 <RST38h> Ok, primary-through-high school education.
May 12 21:12:15 <Hukka> And more often than not the principals even in lower levels are men
May 12 21:12:34 <RST38h> Depends.
May 12 21:12:36 <yigal> Hukka: ah separation of the sexes, so sad
May 12 21:12:52 <rm_work> I went to a private gradeschool where our principle actually WAS a nun T_T
May 12 21:13:12 <yigal> did she beat you with a meter stick?
May 12 21:13:39 <RST38h> rm_work: Have you been shown a sculpture of some crucified guy and told his grades were really low? =)
May 12 21:13:48 <yigal> lol
May 12 21:13:53 <Hukka> RST38h: Good one
May 12 21:13:57 <rm_work> lol
May 12 21:14:01 <nox-> haha
May 12 21:14:10 <Hukka> "Always look into the bright side..."
May 12 21:14:29 <nox-> at the bright side...
May 12 21:14:31 <nox-> :)
May 12 21:15:46 <jani> RST38h: url ?
May 12 21:16:44 <mc_teo> Irlandais, douze points
May 12 21:18:38 <yigal> great song either way
May 12 21:26:36 <RST38h> 11~1
May 12 21:27:22 <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/n8-00-3-2-touch-screen-dual-camera-quadband-gsm-cell-phone-w-java-tf-red-71210 - I wonder how much it'd be to get one of these vendors to release something useful.
May 12 21:37:35 <cehteh> SpeedEvil: as in an open operating system on it?
May 12 21:38:10 <SpeedEvil> yeah
May 12 21:38:17 <SpeedEvil> Well - not this specific model.
May 12 21:38:35 <SpeedEvil> Though it probably could run linux of a form - it's not going to do much well.
May 12 21:38:51 <cehteh> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/sm-w968-1-2-touch-screen-quadband-gsm-cell-phone-watch-with-bluetooth-headset-black-33641
May 12 21:38:52 <cehteh> haha
May 12 21:39:23 <cehteh> 190grams
May 12 21:39:34 <cehteh> gives a good punch :)
May 12 21:39:57 <jani> not that much ui design effort in those screenshots
May 12 21:40:49 <cehteh> these things are not made for brand recognition or sustainable user experience
May 12 21:41:06 <cehteh> the only point is to produce them as cheap as possible and sell them
May 12 21:41:06 <jani> no shit =)
May 12 21:41:37 <cehteh> anyone ever tried to get a warranty repair for such a phone?
May 12 21:41:54 <cehteh> that must be an interesting experience
May 12 21:43:11 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: Sure.
May 12 21:43:25 <jani> i wonder if they bought gsm licenses from nokia ? =)
May 12 21:43:29 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: The problem the west has is that it's not going to stay this way.
May 12 21:44:26 <SpeedEvil> On the battery of above watch.
May 12 21:44:34 <SpeedEvil> 'To preven tinjury or burns'
May 12 21:44:39 <cehteh> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/n900-2-5-touch-screen-dual-sim-dual-network-standby-quadband-gsm-cell-phone-33953
May 12 21:44:44 <cehteh> haha n900 mini :)
May 12 21:44:48 <SpeedEvil> Doesn't that just inspire you as to the quality and attention to detail in the product.
May 12 21:45:29 <cehteh> there where some really good n900 fakes
May 12 21:45:49 <cehteh> (good as in looking almost like the original)
May 12 21:47:02 <cehteh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t27QMN5AH2c
May 12 21:48:29 <jani> cehteh: damn, it booted fast!
May 12 21:49:04 <SpeedEvil> I love portrait mode hands.
May 12 22:15:05 <Venemo> cehteh, lol
May 12 22:20:55 <GAN900> Ubuntu: Continually useless.
May 12 22:21:29 <Venemo> GAN900, why don't you give a try to F15?
May 12 22:21:58 <Venemo> GAN900, it's still beta, but definitely worth a try
May 12 22:23:41 <GAN900> If a laptop is supposedly "Supported" shouldn't things actually work?
May 12 22:24:12 <Venemo> yeah
May 12 22:24:34 <GAN900> Certified, I should say.
May 12 22:25:12 <Venemo> "certified" is supposed to be better than just "supported"
May 12 22:27:53 <SpeedEvil> Why smart devices are a bad idea.
May 12 22:27:56 <SpeedEvil> http://i.imgur.com/S0UZQ.jpg
May 12 22:30:23 <rm_work> ROFL
May 12 22:30:28 <clmbr> hi all
May 12 22:30:52 <nox-> haha
May 12 22:36:51 <BCMM> if one submits a GPG key for one's Garage account, is one then compelled to sign everything one uploads?
May 12 23:46:53 <Jaffa> Hmm, trying to connect to my IrSSI session in screen via Terminus on the iPad. Seems to be working well :-)
May 12 23:47:24 <Venemo> Jaffa, you have an iPad?
May 12 23:47:46 <Jaffa> Venemo: bought it yesterday whilst in the US
May 12 23:48:12 <Venemo> Jaffa, does it worth its money?
May 12 23:48:30 <Jaffa> For when the N900 is too small or battery life too shit.
May 12 23:48:50 <Venemo> mhm
May 12 23:48:51 <merlin1991> Jaffa, can you lart X-Fade for me? :D
May 12 23:48:57 <Jaffa> I liquidated some other gadgets to get the xash
May 12 23:49:02 <merlin1991> my cloak is still mia :P
May 12 23:49:04 <Jaffa> s/xash/cash/
May 12 23:49:05 <infobot> Jaffa meant: I liquidated some other gadgets to get the cash
May 12 23:49:08 <Venemo> for such cases, I'd rather have some android tablet which I can hack meego on
May 12 23:49:24 <Jaffa> X-Fade: pping re merlin1991's cloak...
May 12 23:49:40 <SpeedEvil> Is the ipad jailbroken yet?
May 12 23:49:58 <Jaffa> I played with some
May 12 23:50:19 <Jaffa> Venemo: It's still shit and the reviews are right.
May 12 23:50:29 <Venemo> Jaffa, "it"=?
May 12 23:50:34 <Jaffa> SpeedEvil: No, and that is one of my cpncerns
May 12 23:50:41 <Jaffa> Venemo: Honeycomb
May 12 23:51:04 <Venemo> Jaffa, well, that doesn't really matter much. as I said, I'd hack meego onto it
May 12 23:52:23 <Jaffa> Venemo: There're still vendor-specific jailbreaks required, aren't there; or do those not required for the big boys?
May 12 23:52:37 <Venemo> dunno
May 12 23:53:04 <Venemo> what I do know is archos for example opened up their devices
May 12 23:53:34 <GAN900> Well, after the 10.10 installer helpfully nuked my W7 partition and I reinstalled 11.04 from scratch resume seems to be working.
May 12 23:53:37 <GAN900> Woo
May 12 23:53:48 <Venemo> GAN900, congrats :)
May 12 23:54:01 <GAN900> Jaffa, how's Detroit. Immigration control didn't abuse you too terribly I hope?
May 12 23:54:12 <Venemo> anyway now, it's 2 AM and I'll have an exam tomorrow... so I'd better get some sleep
May 12 23:54:18 <Venemo> so, good evening guys :)
May 12 23:54:50 <GAN900> Later
May 12 23:55:09 <Venemo> bb
May 12 23:56:14 <yigal> I have a UMPC that has a female micro usb port.  I've just installed Ubuntu 11.04 on it, I'm wondering if there's a way to ssh into the new device via usb as I would on an N900?  If someone has any clue and is willing to share I'd be grateful.
May 12 23:56:54 <xd13> when i can actually afford it i want to buy an imac and put slackware on it put a ban sticker on the apple logo and a penguin one 2......the only problem is i'll b supporting apple by purchasing the laptop
May 12 23:57:09 <xd13> macbook not imac
May 12 23:57:32 <SpeedEvil> yigal: You need to setup sshd listening on the port, and then setup a USB-gadget-ethernet driver on the port.
May 12 23:57:43 <Venemo> xd13, lol
May 12 23:57:46 <SpeedEvil> xd13: Steal it.
May 12 23:57:47 <SpeedEvil> :)
May 12 23:57:50 <xd13> na
May 12 23:58:18 <xd13> apple has to be the company i hate more than any other
May 12 23:58:51 <xd13> i'm not saying they have bad products by any means they just control the living shit out of everything and i will hate them endlessly for it
May 12 23:59:02 <Venemo> actually, google is even more evil
May 12 23:59:07 <yigal> SpeedEvil: how do I do the "USB-gadget-ethernet driver on the port" business?
May 12 23:59:26 <xd13> google can turn super evil at any second
May 12 23:59:37 <Venemo> google _is_ super evil
May 12 23:59:47 <xd13> at least they give free products
May 12 23:59:52 <yigal> SpeedEvil: is this a pretty standard business, should I just rtfm e.g. google it?
May 12 23:59:56 <GAN900> xd13, Apple doesn't lie about it, though.
May 13 00:00:03 <xd13> very true
May 13 00:00:11 <xd13> but it sucks that people don't care
May 13 00:00:14 <GAN900> xd13, Google just PRETENDS to be Open.
May 13 00:00:14 <xd13> they just give in
May 13 00:00:17 <GAN900> Which is fine
May 13 00:00:19 <Venemo> xd13, android does the same thing as apple. the difference is, apple admits openly that it is evil, but google doesn't.
May 13 00:00:30 <SpeedEvil> yigal: pretty much.
May 13 00:00:32 <xd13> if they ever join forces
May 13 00:00:32 <Venemo> google lies about itself; this makes it more evil
May 13 00:00:40 <SpeedEvil> yigal: maemo isn't doing anything special.
May 13 00:00:49 <Venemo> [01:57] <xd13> but it sucks that people don't care ----> sucks indeed
May 13 00:01:12 <xd13> i have an ipod video with rockbox on it
May 13 00:01:23 <yigal> SpeedEvil: that's great! ok I have my next move planned then
May 13 00:01:51 <xd13> best mp3 player ever right now but if this thing dies i will have 2 find me something that i can just drag and drop files onto no way am i dealing with a humongo piece of software just to copy my music over
May 13 00:02:44 <SpeedEvil> yigal: This assumes that USB device functionality works.
May 13 00:02:58 * SpeedEvil wishes rockbox would work on later ones.
May 13 00:04:12 <yigal> SpeedEvil: the device has a regular, A female USB 2.0 port, and a micro female USB port, at least the "regular" one is working?
May 13 00:04:29 <xd13> same time there are a lot of smaller mp3 players now with a lot of storage, i remember there was this sony 64gb one that was only in japan but oh man was it nice
May 13 00:05:54 <SpeedEvil> I like my n900 as a media player.
May 13 00:06:24 <xd13> i should b getting that good rater battery soon
May 13 00:06:37 <xd13> for some reason usps held on to it for 3 days without delivering
May 13 00:12:52 <yigal> better than a Fedex delivery I had where the guy claimed to come in the night time and found no one at home, when it was 1pm and I was waiting for my package
May 13 00:14:16 <yigal> I made sure to call Fedex and claim before the time the deliverer claimed to come by my house
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 13 02:59:58 2011