**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 17 02:59:59 2011
May 17 05:26:11 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/16/mono_founders_launch_new_company/ <-- hehe can't keep a zombie down...
May 17 05:49:08 * RST38h still wants an ability to ignore people on tmo, after all that time
May 17 05:49:21 <RST38h> abill_uk is a serious source of background noise
May 17 05:55:16 <RST38h> "Fabrice Bellard, the initiator of the QEMU emulator, wrote a PC emulator in JavaScript. You can now boot Linux in your browser, provided it is recent enough." -- eek
May 17 05:56:30 <robbiethe1st> Heh. We'll have Linux taking over everywhere /except/ the desktop.
May 17 05:58:26 <RST38h> "No segment limit and right checks when accessing memory (Linux does not rely on them for memory protection, so it is not an issue. The x86 emulator of QEMU has the same restriction)."
May 17 05:58:42 * RST38h laughs satanically, whispers "wimp!"
May 17 06:33:31 <infobot> msg from chanop: pupnik, please stay on topic and DO NOT INSULT OR GO XXX, this isn't #politics and (usually) a worksafe chan
May 17 07:12:52 <mensoif> Hi, I have a proble with my n900.
May 17 07:13:40 <mensoif> When someone calls me, I often hang up, just by taking my phone out of it's case
May 17 07:15:03 <mensoif> is there a settings that does not unlock the screen when in the case (usin the light sensor)
May 17 07:15:49 <mensoif> or a similar workaround? If I have to unlock the phone manually each time, it's not a big issue for me.
May 17 07:18:30 <slonopotamus> mensoif: updated to latest maemo release? it improved situation *a bit*
May 17 07:18:48 <mensoif> yes, I even use CSSU
May 17 07:19:35 <geaaru> hi, is there a way to turn off keyboard led when r&d mode is enable? thanks in advance
May 17 07:22:25 <cityLights> haha I got a working program with a UI!
May 17 07:22:28 <cityLights> YES
May 17 07:22:37 <cityLights> so happy, now need to package it
May 17 08:02:51 <chem|st> re
May 17 08:22:42 <Coke> Is someone here kind enough to check this out http://lohmanders.se/test/index.sv.html and tell me if the GIF at the bottom right is displayed properly.
May 17 08:23:50 <ruskie> any specific browser you would like to have it tested?
May 17 08:25:29 <Coke> ruskie: the default one on N900
May 17 08:25:54 <ruskie> ahh nope... won't be trying to get that url there...
May 17 08:26:05 <Coke> ruskie: I've already concluded that it has some severe bugs, failing on SVG rendering so now I'm checking if the GIF works
May 17 08:26:35 <Coke> In my browser the GIF is cut off.
May 17 08:26:43 <Coke> Making the default N900 browser even more broken than IE7
May 17 08:26:48 <Coke> (which is quiet a feat in itself)
May 17 08:27:08 <ruskie> you sure it's broken?
May 17 08:27:28 <Coke> the only other person I know (who has access to an N900) isn't using it anymore so no batts and no charger.
May 17 08:27:32 <Coke> ruskie: 99%
May 17 08:27:45 <Coke> ruskie: the rendering behavior is irratic and makes no sense.
May 17 08:28:37 <ruskie> 'erratic' and it works just fine here
May 17 08:28:42 <Coke> ruskie: it does?
May 17 08:28:45 <ruskie> yup
May 17 08:28:49 <Coke> you see the full round red gif?
May 17 08:28:53 <ruskie> yup
May 17 08:29:01 <Coke> what version of the built-in browser do you use?
May 17 08:29:02 <ruskie> I opened the page in vimprobable2 as well on my desktop
May 17 08:29:09 <ruskie> the page looks the same with to diffs
May 17 08:29:23 <Coke> i dont know what vimprobable2 is, I'm talking about the default browser in N900
May 17 08:29:47 <ruskie> yes as am I
May 17 08:30:36 <Coke> how do I find out what version my browser is?
May 17 08:30:40 <ruskie> 2.9.5-1.23+0m5
May 17 08:30:49 <ruskie> dpkg -l | grep microb
May 17 08:30:51 <ruskie> is what I used
May 17 08:31:08 <Coke> argh
May 17 08:31:14 <Coke> i have no pipe char on this keyboard
May 17 08:31:30 <ruskie> 20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5 <-- for the microb-engine
May 17 08:32:29 <Coke> ok I have to go through a monster list of installed packages to find it
May 17 08:32:37 <ruskie> you don't
May 17 08:32:47 <ruskie> since you can get the pipe symbol iirc
May 17 08:32:47 <Coke> ok the package is named microb-engine
May 17 08:32:51 <Coke> 20100401-1.9.2
May 17 08:32:57 <ruskie> 20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5
May 17 08:33:05 <Coke> nothing +-5.2+0m5
May 17 08:33:08 <Coke> where did you get it?
May 17 08:33:31 <ruskie> maybe it just got cut off for you since it was a full list
May 17 08:33:45 <ruskie> formating and what not...
May 17 08:34:20 <ruskie> btw you can get the pipe symbol from the special symbols virtual keyboard
May 17 08:34:25 <ruskie> fun+sym key
May 17 08:35:24 <Coke> oh great, bash history still doesnt save??
May 17 08:35:34 <ruskie> wouldn't know
May 17 08:35:37 <ruskie> I use zsh
May 17 08:36:04 <Coke> I'm a bash user
May 17 08:36:30 <Coke> it has worked for me since early 90's on every platform, even Windows. maemo is the first platform I don't have proper hsitory in bash
May 17 08:37:15 <Coke> apt-get says ive got the latest microb when I try to update it
May 17 08:37:26 <ruskie> try dpkg -l | grep microb
May 17 08:37:28 <Coke> the GIF is cut off in my browser
May 17 08:37:56 <Coke> fun+sym doesnt do anything
May 17 08:38:19 <ruskie> erm...
May 17 08:38:20 <Coke> (the blue arrow up/right and Sym/ctrl keys)
May 17 08:38:23 <ruskie> yup
May 17 08:38:27 <Coke> nada
May 17 08:38:37 <ruskie> that should display a symbol selection virtual keyboard
May 17 08:39:01 <Coke> it doesn't.
May 17 08:39:07 <ruskie> atleast when in a terminal or app
May 17 08:39:16 <Coke> im in the x terminal
May 17 08:39:28 <robbiethe1st> Press alt(blue arrow), release it,  then ctrl.
May 17 08:39:40 <Coke> that worked
May 17 08:39:51 <Coke> similarly, is there a way to drop out from fullscreen?
May 17 08:40:27 <ruskie> bottom right
May 17 08:40:32 <Coke> ruskie: yep, same version number as you have
May 17 08:40:43 <ruskie> should be an up arrow thingy or something
May 17 08:41:05 <Coke> up arrow?
May 17 08:41:17 <Coke> 20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5
May 17 08:41:19 <ruskie> on the display
May 17 08:41:25 <ruskie> for fullscreen
May 17 08:41:37 <Coke> no i meant, sometimes apps take over the phone
May 17 08:41:40 <Coke> i cant get out of the app
May 17 08:41:47 <ruskie> ctrl+backspace
May 17 08:41:52 <ruskie> will get you to the app switcher
May 17 08:41:58 <Coke> tapping or simultaneously?
May 17 08:42:04 <ruskie> simult
May 17 08:42:07 <Coke> ok
May 17 08:42:09 <Coke> yes.
May 17 08:42:21 <Coke> so... my browser seems to be completely bonkers
May 17 08:43:24 <ruskie> btw how is it cut off? bottom or right or both???
May 17 08:43:27 <Coke> I've confirmed it to work on FF4, FF3.5, Midori, Safari, iphone, android, IE9 and your N900
May 17 08:43:48 <ruskie> note I don't have flash so if there is any flash content on the site it might cause issues as well
May 17 08:43:53 <Coke> no flash
May 17 08:44:00 <Coke> except for the GIF I'm using only standards
May 17 08:44:06 <ruskie> hmm
May 17 08:44:13 <Coke> which sucks bigtime, because the ONLY browser in the world to actually support the standards is Firefox
May 17 08:44:21 <ruskie> opera as well iirc
May 17 08:44:27 <Coke> ah, havent tried opera
May 17 08:44:44 <Coke> whaddya know. it even has support for SVG smil
May 17 08:44:48 <ruskie> the webkit stuff ought to work as well for the most part...
May 17 08:44:48 <Coke> So add opera to that list
May 17 08:45:50 <chx>  
May 17 08:46:09 <Coke> ruskie: yeah, i thought that about gecko too, but obviously it doesnt in whatever microb is
May 17 08:46:23 <ruskie> microb is gecko
May 17 08:46:40 <Coke> can't be
May 17 08:46:43 <ruskie> it is
May 17 08:46:50 <Coke> so why isn't it rendering properly?
May 17 08:47:06 <ruskie> 20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5 <-- the version itself is a hint here: 1.9.2 xulrunner version
May 17 08:47:28 <ruskie> maybe something is badly configured on your device? maybe some extension for it?
May 17 08:48:10 <Coke> you mean browser extensinos?
May 17 08:48:14 <ruskie> yup
May 17 08:48:19 <ruskie> using wifi or 3g?
May 17 08:48:27 <Coke> wifi
May 17 08:48:30 <Coke> and 3g
May 17 08:48:34 <Coke> right now its in wifi mode
May 17 08:48:49 <ruskie> well with 3g I would assume some cellco proxy somewhere in between mangling crap for no good reason
May 17 08:48:53 <Coke> I have Flashblock installed
May 17 08:48:59 <ruskie> that could be an issue
May 17 08:49:04 <ruskie> or adblock
May 17 08:49:09 <Coke> uh, but theres no flash on my page
May 17 08:49:26 <Coke> not using adblock
May 17 08:49:38 <Coke> besides flashblock i have disabled single sign on and geo location
May 17 08:49:45 <ruskie> same here
May 17 08:49:51 <ruskie> but I don't run flashblock
May 17 08:49:55 <ruskie> simply don't have flash at all
May 17 08:49:58 <Coke> ok, uninstalling flashblock
May 17 08:50:12 <ruskie> extensions can have adverse effects on rendering
May 17 08:50:16 <ruskie> since they hook into there
May 17 08:50:46 <Coke> Wow.
May 17 08:50:48 <Coke> You were absolutely right.
May 17 08:51:11 <Coke> Why the heck would Flashblock even be activated on a page completely void of flash?
May 17 08:51:26 <ruskie> it needs to be active to detect if there is anything flashy on the page
May 17 08:51:46 <Coke> ruskie: but after detecting nothing, why bother telling the browser how and what to render?
May 17 08:52:02 <Coke> anyway, thanks a lot ruskie
May 17 08:52:06 <ruskie> that could be a bug or by design
May 17 08:52:15 <Coke> i dont think I would have ever thought that flashblock would mess up GIFs
May 17 08:52:17 <ruskie> or it could do stuff with gifs just because it can
May 17 08:52:25 <Coke> but why cut the top 1/3 off?
May 17 08:52:26 <Coke> makes no sense
May 17 08:52:37 <Coke> Im pretty sure this is indeed a bug in flashblock.
May 17 08:53:11 <ruskie> personally prefered method to get rid of flash is to just remove it
May 17 08:53:20 <Coke> ruskie: mm. I'll consider that.
May 17 08:53:29 <ruskie> I haven't found any sites that I need flash for frankly
May 17 08:53:36 <Coke> ruskie: I'm an avid youtuber
May 17 08:53:41 <ruskie> youtube-dl for watching youtube stuff
May 17 08:53:43 <Coke> altho I dont use my phone for anything except a terminal
May 17 08:54:01 <Coke> I found that the mail client is suboptimal and the phone is just to laggy and slow for me to feel productive with it.
May 17 08:54:18 <Coke> The worst part is: I can't get rid of it. It's the ONLY phone that can do X forwarding which is why I use it for work
May 17 08:54:23 <ruskie> I just download a pile of youtube stuff using youtube-dl and then watch it when I have time without bothring about a connection etc...
May 17 08:54:32 <Coke> Once this phone breaks I'll be sent back to 1995, no cellphone
May 17 08:54:44 <ruskie> for me every mail client outside of alpine is suboptimal
May 17 08:54:52 <Coke> ruskie: Im a mutt fan
May 17 08:54:56 <ruskie> but ssh helps there to connect to my server
May 17 08:55:21 <ruskie> as for phone... I'm planing on getting a second n900... but when those breaks... I want a simple s40 device for calls
May 17 08:55:55 <Coke> s40?
May 17 08:56:23 <ruskie> s40... yeah nokia s40
May 17 08:56:25 <Coke> Ah, that one. Yes, there's no phone on the market right now that can actually replace a N900
May 17 08:56:36 <ruskie> I doubt there will ever be one
May 17 08:56:41 <Coke> why is the industry and consumers so phukking retarded?
May 17 08:57:16 <Coke> I don't really care that the animations and menus are slow on my N900, at the end of the day it's a very small laptop on which I can do everything from writing budget reports to accessing our production system
May 17 08:58:17 <Coke> ruskie: how can S40 replace N900? It's a shitty symbian.
May 17 08:58:37 <Coke> Symbian and Winmo are by far the worst creations I have ever had the misfortune of ever having in my target platform list.
May 17 08:59:15 <Sicelo_> s40 is not symbian
May 17 08:59:34 <ruskie> Coke, the thing is I don't need a fancy smartphone
May 17 08:59:48 <ruskie> for phone I'm happy with a 10 year+ nokia 5110 funcitonality
May 17 08:59:53 <Coke> I see.
May 17 09:00:02 <Coke> S60 is the symbian based one
May 17 09:00:05 <ruskie> yup
May 17 09:00:20 <Coke> ruskie: i dont need a smartphone either, but pretty soon thats all youll be able to get
May 17 09:00:24 <Sicelo_> and series 80 & 90, long extinct :P:P
May 17 09:00:28 <Coke> ive got one of them really old ericsons at home
May 17 09:00:40 <Coke> it nwo has an uptime of some 700 days
May 17 09:00:56 <Coke> THAT is the type of quality I expect from software. If it means reducing the number of features, than so be it
May 17 09:00:59 <ruskie> I have a bunch of old phones
May 17 09:02:09 <ruskie> 5110, 3210, 5140i, n95
May 17 09:02:12 <Coke> Tbh, I only use my phone as a small laptop. The only time and place its used as a phone is in the office
May 17 09:02:14 <chx> Series 80????
May 17 09:02:31 <Coke> I wonder if Intel will ever release morestown
May 17 09:02:33 <chx> wow
May 17 09:02:54 <ruskie> Coke, I hardly use my n900 other than when I'm not @home or @work
May 17 09:03:18 <Coke> ruskie: I use it as a remote control to my media station at home
May 17 09:03:44 <ruskie> ahh
May 17 09:03:55 <ruskie> I'd get n8xx for that
May 17 09:04:02 <Coke> what is n8xx ?
May 17 09:04:59 <ruskie> n800 or n810
May 17 09:05:09 <Coke> ruskie: they can do remote X over SSH too?
May 17 09:05:52 <ruskie> others will have to answer that but I thought they had proper X
May 17 09:05:55 <ruskie> afk lunch
May 17 09:06:09 <Coke> Might be an alternative.
May 17 09:07:36 <Sicelo_> yup Coke, nokia 9500 and it's brothers were series 80. 7710 was only series 90
May 17 09:08:25 * Sicelo_ still uses 9300i series 80 nokia, hoping to get n900 soon
May 17 09:10:32 <RST38h> "An Israeli couple inspired by the spawn of Zuckerberg have dubbed their unfortunate daughter "Like", the BBC reports."
May 17 09:25:12 <crashanddie> In other news, the BBC reports that people are still stupid. No cure has been found, other than education; even though this has proven a failure in the past already.
May 17 09:26:48 <ruskie> education does not unstupify people
May 17 09:26:52 <Macer> heh
May 17 09:26:57 <Macer> sure doesn't
May 17 09:27:04 <Macer> i have seen some pretty stupid smart people out there
May 17 09:27:14 <ruskie> education has more to do with knowledge
May 17 09:27:22 <chx> not. quite.
May 17 09:27:36 <khertan> Morning
May 17 09:27:36 <Macer> ruskie: education also aids in social interaction
May 17 09:27:44 <chx> good education esp at a university has more to do with teaching you how to learn
May 17 09:27:59 <crashanddie> Education teaches you to think. Intelligence just makes your thinking process faster, or allows you to see links others might not make immediately.
May 17 09:27:59 <ruskie> glad you come from a place where that is true
May 17 09:28:02 <Macer> chx: i always figured early education did that
May 17 09:28:35 <chx> it's called 'university' because it gives you universal knowledge, a certain... attitude i could say?
May 17 09:28:41 <Macer> college seemed more like spitting out something someone said about something
May 17 09:28:51 <ruskie> I still don't see how craming a bunch of books into my head and then promptly forgetting them after the exam gives me anything
May 17 09:28:53 <chx> it matters less than you'd think whether you get that by studying archeology or programming
May 17 09:29:03 <Macer> while having notes on where they said it
May 17 09:29:13 <Macer> heh
May 17 09:29:40 <RST38h> last ab
May 17 09:32:19 <chem|st> Coke: for your notice... I tried that svg lately in firefox on windows and got to know that it converts it to png instantly
May 17 09:32:33 <Coke> chem|st: really? i had it working in my ff on win
May 17 09:32:55 <chem|st> and your gif is showing fine on microb
May 17 09:33:30 <Coke> chem|st: yeah it was an addon for blocking Flash
May 17 09:33:33 <Coke> chem|st: it was buggy
May 17 09:33:37 <Macer> maemo ftw
May 17 09:33:46 <Coke> chem|st: anyway, SVG's work just fine in FF on windows
May 17 09:33:57 <Coke> chem|st: if it doesnt for you, I recommend you upgrade to 3.6 or newer
May 17 09:34:02 <chem|st> ff on maemo shows too
May 17 09:34:06 <Macer> i don't care how old and outdated it gets.. it works with my bt keyboard :)
May 17 09:34:12 <chem|st> Coke: 4.x
May 17 09:34:16 <Macer> there's ff for maemo?
May 17 09:34:22 <chem|st> Macer: yes
May 17 09:34:24 <Coke> chem|st: "shows too" == ?
May 17 09:34:30 <Coke> shows the SVG with SMIL animations?
May 17 09:34:37 <Macer> it isn't that mobile one that meego is using is it?
May 17 09:34:38 <chem|st> gif in ff on maemo
May 17 09:34:41 <Macer> i can't remember what it is called
May 17 09:34:47 <chem|st> not cut or anything
May 17 09:34:48 <Macer> it was horrible
May 17 09:34:58 <Coke> chem|st: that is probably because it's SVG animation is disabled, just like on microb
May 17 09:35:01 <chem|st> Macer: it is the fennec
May 17 09:35:05 <Macer> yeah
May 17 09:35:08 <Coke> chem|st: but FF on windows shouldn't have SVG SMIL disabled.
May 17 09:35:08 <Macer> fennec was sooo bad
May 17 09:35:20 <Macer> why can't someone make a chromium for maemo :) ?
May 17 09:35:22 <chem|st> and the damn sync plugin isnt working since the last upgrade
May 17 09:35:25 <Coke> chem|st: perhaps you forgot to build it with smil support
May 17 09:35:30 <Macer> tear is webkit right?
May 17 09:35:39 <Coke> Macer: why not just have a proper FF build??
May 17 09:35:39 <Macer> meh. webkit is only half of it
May 17 09:35:48 <Macer> Coke: because ff is total bloatware
May 17 09:35:55 <Macer> it is the non ms alternative to ie
May 17 09:36:00 <chem|st> Coke: as I build anything for windows O_o
May 17 09:36:17 <Coke> chem|st: well, FF 3.6 and newer do work fine with animations on windows
May 17 09:36:31 <Coke> chem|st: so you must have DL'ed a crippled version or maybe not hit refresh? :)
May 17 09:36:51 <Coke> I'm looking at a 3.5, it works too
May 17 09:37:27 <chem|st> as I said it converts "your" svg to png (didn't check others)
May 17 09:37:40 <Coke> chem|st: it shouldn't convert anything
May 17 09:37:51 <chem|st> Coke: I gave it the direct link to the svg
May 17 09:37:59 <Coke> http://lohmanders.se/test/images/decor/comp_animation.sv.svg
May 17 09:38:13 <chem|st> exactly
May 17 09:38:20 <Coke> chem|st: I don't know what to say. I've tried every FF I have for Windows 7, all work fine with SVG's
May 17 09:38:36 <Coke> you must have some extension, plugin or setting that disables interactive SVG
May 17 09:38:42 <chem|st> I am on xp maybe thats the difference
May 17 09:38:45 <Coke> Macer: http://lohmanders.se/test/images/decor/comp_animation.sv.svg
May 17 09:38:52 <Coke> chem|st: worked fine on XP too last time I checked.
May 17 09:39:10 <Coke> chem|st: besides, why would Mozilla upstream disable animation events for the XP build explicitly?
May 17 09:39:13 <Coke> Macer: http://lohmanders.se/test/images/decor/comp_animation.sv.svg
May 17 09:39:21 <Coke> Macer: does chromium load and animate this SVG properly?
May 17 09:40:05 <chem|st> on 3.6.17 I get that file info data:image/png;base64...
May 17 09:40:07 <Coke> Gecko and Webkit both support it.
May 17 09:40:22 <Coke> chem|st: you have some messed up setting.
May 17 09:40:54 <Coke> It's either a GIF or an SVG. If it's converted to PNG it's something local to your browser.
May 17 09:41:10 <piggz> hmmm, thats new...my rootfs is full /
May 17 09:41:13 <piggz>  :/
May 17 09:42:27 <chem|st> piggz: that's new?
May 17 09:43:14 <piggz> chem|st: its never been full before, and im in a catch-22 situation, i cant uninstall anything, becuase i need to run dpkg --configure -a first, which cant becuase the filesystem is full
May 17 09:45:08 <chem|st> piggz: just move one of the bigger files away like localizations stuff
May 17 09:45:21 <chem|st> piggz: don't forget to symlink!
May 17 09:46:34 <piggz> chem|st: where are they kept?
May 17 09:46:45 <piggz>  /usr/share?
May 17 09:46:51 <chem|st> one sec
May 17 09:47:35 <piggz>  /usr/share/locale is 15mb
May 17 09:47:42 <piggz> that should do
May 17 09:49:12 <chem|st> there was "one" file about 24MB somewhere...
May 17 09:49:45 <SpeedEvil> find / -mount -size +1000000
May 17 09:52:20 <chem|st> piggz: /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive
May 17 09:52:55 <chem|st> ~20MB
May 17 09:52:59 <piggz> chem|st: ta
May 17 09:55:07 <piggz> chem|st: i found the culprit...i had installed libqtm-11-* .... which included all the -dbg packages :)
May 17 09:55:18 <piggz> now have 65mb free on /
May 17 09:55:31 <chem|st> ouch
May 17 10:07:35 <chem|st> ~facepalm
May 17 10:07:35 * infobot facepalms at the situation
May 17 10:08:13 <chem|st> now I see an animated graphics on his site... it is 4 pngs in a svg container
May 17 10:10:49 <auenf> 4 png's in a svg container sounds like a poor mans mng
May 17 10:12:06 <piggz> hmmm, why does the N900_PORTRAIT_SENSORS hack not seem to work
May 17 10:13:50 <chem|st> auenf: he is already considered "noob"
May 17 10:14:27 <chem|st> and spirit is again messing up! the whole device gets unresponsive when logged on to skype
May 17 10:20:28 <pupnik> RST38h: jim rogers named his daughter 'happy'
May 17 10:22:20 <piggz> is anyone familiar with the N900_PORTRAIT_SENSORS hack ?
May 17 10:22:27 <piggz> sorry, wrong chanel
May 17 10:22:36 <piggz> meant to be #qt :)
May 17 10:35:53 <cehteh> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/05/17/0242244/Boot-Linux-In-Your-Browser   ... works in fennec! :P
May 17 10:40:09 <robbiethe1st> Hm... can we boot Linux inside of Linux booted inside of Linux inside our browser>
May 17 10:40:40 <cehteh> not yet :P
May 17 10:41:08 <cehteh> the emulator has only serial console output (connected to a terminal in the browser)
May 17 10:41:40 <cehteh> well links2 once had a javascript engine .. but they removed it because it was too buggy
May 17 10:41:48 <SpeedEvil> Fabrice Bellard is _so_ awesome.
May 17 10:42:02 <cehteh> if someone get a browser with javascript working on that :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 17 10:44:26 2011

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 17 10:44:26 2011
May 17 10:45:22 <robbiethe1st> Now, if only it worked in Firefox... I get "Invalid arguement on line 9"
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 17 10:45:25 2011

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 17 10:45:53 2011
May 17 10:46:16 <pupnik> why SpeedEvil
May 17 10:46:44 <pupnik> oh nm
May 17 10:56:10 <ruskie> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/05/17/0242244/Boot-Linux-In-Your-Browser
May 17 11:00:36 <Venemo> good afternoon guys
May 17 11:00:44 <pupnik> hi
May 17 11:07:22 <MohammadAG> hmm
May 17 11:07:26 <MohammadAG> my LED is blinking red
May 17 11:07:37 <MohammadAG> (PatternError)
May 17 11:07:41 <Venemo> MohammadAG, that is the 'error' pattern by default
May 17 11:08:11 <chem|st> never got this apart from camera "on"
May 17 11:08:15 <MohammadAG> yes, I know, but why
May 17 11:08:27 <chem|st> syslog?
May 17 11:09:02 <MohammadAG> what's [46218.779052] in normal time formats?
May 17 11:09:09 <MohammadAG> chem|st, that's a steady red, not blinking
May 17 11:10:28 <MohammadAG> meh
May 17 11:10:44 <MohammadAG> I was browsing repos yesterday and installed lowbatled
May 17 11:11:01 <MohammadAG> of all patterns, it uses the error one to indicate battery low
May 17 11:11:19 <Venemo> heheheh
May 17 11:17:29 <chem|st> lol
May 17 11:19:02 <lcuk> MohammadAG, that is seconds from bootup isn't it?
May 17 11:19:37 <chem|st> is sipwitch integrating with the phone software or standalone?
May 17 11:21:13 <chem|st> how do I reset my battery to proper readings?
May 17 11:21:57 <MohammadAG> lcuk, no idea, SpeedEvil mentioned something about kernel times last week iirc
May 17 11:22:00 <chem|st> it sais 19 cycles since learning but CI is still 1
May 17 11:22:05 <MohammadAG> though I can't seem to remember that
May 17 11:23:44 <ShadowJK> With bme: run from fully charged until shutdown. 4 times. With luck, it'll work.
May 17 11:25:32 <chem|st> is there anything to replace that piece of sh|t yet?
May 17 11:26:10 <ShadowJK> Without bme: run from fully charged running "./bq27200.sh 5" constantly until EDV1 column becomes 1. Careful, there's only a minute or so between EDV1 and hard shutdown, which is extremely risky and might damage or corrupt the emmc, onenand and microsd.
May 17 11:26:45 <ruskie> yay use more battery to report that the battery is low ;)
May 17 11:27:00 <ShadowJK> Repeat 3 times or so
May 17 11:27:07 <ruskie> gah I hate when I'm scrolled up
May 17 11:36:37 <pupnik> http://i.imgur.com/Pw136.gif  you might know this pic ... i found the source .. enjoy (ntsfw)
May 17 11:37:25 <Corsac> pupnik...
May 17 11:38:14 <pupnik> ever research computer graphics Corsac
May 17 11:39:19 <Corsac> pupnik: I think everyone knowing Lenna knows the source
May 17 11:39:36 <pupnik> i didn't
May 17 11:39:45 <pupnik> http://imgur.com/gallery/BkdrN   nice aquarium
May 17 11:39:48 * merlin1991 didn't either
May 17 11:41:32 <pupnik> What British people say vs what the rest of the world hears  http://imgur.com/gallery/lHPEn
May 17 11:42:06 <merlin1991> lmao
May 17 11:43:19 <ruskie> pupnik, well my vocab apparently is closer to british than rest of the world
May 17 11:45:39 <pupnik> funny to me how out of balance the picture looks when the crop is different
May 17 11:56:16 <chem|st> finally someone made use of it... http://imgur.com/gallery/wD3cT
May 17 11:58:16 <vldcnst> chem|st: indeed, excellent
May 17 12:00:34 <Macer> hm. is there a way to print directly in maemo?
May 17 12:00:43 <Macer> i think the limitation would be abiword wouldn't it?
May 17 12:02:22 <Macer> i could do it from easydeb but that would be lame :)
May 17 12:03:29 <BCMM> Macer: there's an app in extras that prints
May 17 12:03:46 <Macer> really? which one?
May 17 12:03:52 <BCMM> Macer: it works by ssh'ing to a machine with a CUPS server though
May 17 12:03:56 <Macer> oh
May 17 12:04:04 <BCMM> did you want to use a USB printer with HEN?
May 17 12:04:05 <Macer> i guess that would be kind of cool too
May 17 12:04:12 <Macer> no ... networked printer
May 17 12:04:19 <Macer> but the printer is independent
May 17 12:04:31 <Macer> i doubt it has a way to ssh to it :)
May 17 12:04:43 <Macer> although i suppose i can set up cups on something in order to do it
May 17 12:04:52 <BCMM> yeah, you'd need to run a cups server somewhere
May 17 12:04:56 <BCMM> assuming there is a cups driver for it
May 17 12:05:08 <Macer> there is for the printer. i'm using kde to print to it
May 17 12:05:19 <Macer> it's an older brother hl
May 17 12:05:34 <Macer> awesome printer for how much i paid for it when it was new :) only b/w but that's all i really need
May 17 12:05:38 <DocScrutinizer> I seen cups for fremantle
May 17 12:05:59 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: well in 2025 when meego for n900 is done maybe i'll try it :)
May 17 12:07:17 <Macer> although i do believe i'll look into the ssh printing option. not sure how it works tho.. a ps converter then send it to an ssh tunnel to the cups server?
May 17 12:07:37 <Macer> that would actually be kind of cool to print while on the road and come home and grab what i printed :)
May 17 12:07:57 <Macer> and a little safer than opening an unprotected cups port on the router
May 17 12:07:58 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: haha .oO(???)
May 17 12:08:11 <Macer> huh?
May 17 12:08:48 <Macer> i'm a firm oo user :) abiword is great tho for a portable word processor
May 17 12:09:08 <Macer> i used it last night to make a whole report using my su8w that i finally got working flawlessly
May 17 12:09:27 <Macer> it's like a laptop in the pocket.. it's wonderful. if it could print on its own then it would be perfect
May 17 12:09:55 <Macer> i actually don't care that maemo won't ever get updated anymore.. maybe there are still a few devs out there that will support it since it is rather n900 specific
May 17 12:10:11 <Macer> i don't really see the kernel needing anything more .. the hardware works :)
May 17 12:10:21 <DocScrutinizer> there IS CUPS for maemo!!!
May 17 12:10:28 <Macer> oh yeah?
May 17 12:10:40 <DocScrutinizer> so WTF shouldn't it be able to print like a laptop?
May 17 12:10:59 <Venemo> sure, I have a cup too, although I couldn't say for certain that it is "for maemo".
May 17 12:11:06 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: well.. for one.. i don't think there are any good apps that have a printing option or have been built against cups
May 17 12:11:31 <Macer> at least abiword doesn't which is probably the only word processor worth using
May 17 12:11:42 <Macer> nor gnumeric which seems to be the only good spreadsheet app worth using
May 17 12:12:30 <Macer> if the ssh printing/cups option works by choosing a file to print that will work :)
May 17 12:12:57 <Macer> but right now i have to finish proofing the report i did last night so i don't have time to tinker.. i'm happy enough that my su8w is working. i haven't used my G2 in 2 days haha
May 17 12:13:00 <Macer> n900 ftw
May 17 12:13:13 <Macer> it just found new life
May 17 12:13:22 <Macer> to think i was about to ebay it too :)
May 17 12:22:38 <DocScrutinizer> apt-cache show cups-bsd   -  fool
May 17 12:23:40 <merlin1991> Macer: abiword has 3 missing images for me :D
May 17 12:24:29 <merlin1991> in the main ui the ones for bold / underlined / italic
May 17 12:24:35 <DocScrutinizer> >>.. has its own filtering driver model for handling various document types.<<   >>This package provides the BSD commands for interacting with CUPS.<<
May 17 12:25:17 <Venemo> why BSD?
May 17 12:25:54 <DocScrutinizer> legacy?
May 17 12:27:24 <DocScrutinizer> e.g. because OSX is also based on BSD?
May 17 12:29:31 <Venemo> wtf cares about OSX?
May 17 12:29:50 <DocScrutinizer> cups been a child of apple
May 17 12:30:01 <DocScrutinizer> for quite some time
May 17 12:30:10 <DocScrutinizer> dunno if still
May 17 12:30:15 <ruskie> sure it is
May 17 12:30:32 <ruskie> it actually has some nice ideas... though as with all printing subsystems... it's a hack upon hack
May 17 12:31:09 <pupnik> it got a lot easier to configure a couple years ago, following a complaint by... alan cox i think
May 17 12:31:50 <DocScrutinizer> the point is: if your app can not print, then you need to export your document to some semi-popular format like pdf, ps2, txt, whatever, and feed this to cups directly
May 17 12:32:09 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: hehe
May 17 12:32:37 <DocScrutinizer> >>.. has its own filtering driver model for handling various document types.<<
May 17 12:33:06 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: i'll lookinto it
May 17 12:33:11 * ruskie has a dot matrix printer he can just do cat plaintext.txt > /dev/lp0 -> prints it
May 17 12:33:21 <Macer> wow.. dot matrix :)
May 17 12:33:23 <Macer> how nostalgic
May 17 12:33:39 <Macer> back in the carbon copy era haha
May 17 12:33:42 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, ah, I understand
May 17 12:34:32 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: i never did an apt-cache search for cups
May 17 12:34:35 <Macer> wow
May 17 12:34:43 <pupnik> i had a typewriter with serial interface
May 17 12:34:52 <Macer> cups-common
May 17 12:34:53 <pupnik> i could cat files to it
May 17 12:34:54 <Macer> :)
May 17 12:35:08 <Macer> and there is a cups-client as well
May 17 12:35:27 <pupnik> there was something awesome about the sound of an electric typewriter pecking-out your reports
May 17 12:35:41 <ruskie> Macer, well it works even got new tapes for it
May 17 12:35:41 <Macer> pupnik: hahaha
May 17 12:35:48 <ruskie> just need to set it up sometime
May 17 12:35:49 <psycho_oreos> a busy typist
May 17 12:35:56 <Macer> ruskie: oh i'm sure it does. those things are tanks :)
May 17 12:35:58 <ruskie> I need to reorganize my space for taht
May 17 12:36:16 <ruskie> even have some of that infinite paper for it
May 17 12:36:17 <pupnik> i also miss the fizz sound of a dot-matrix
May 17 12:36:27 <pupnik> fizzbt fizzbt fizzzzzzzzbt fizbt
May 17 12:36:28 <Macer> pupnik: that noise would drive me crazy
May 17 12:36:36 <Macer> like scratching a chalk board
May 17 12:36:41 <ruskie> I have 2 printers that are currently not in use... a hp laserjet 4l and that dot matrix
May 17 12:36:42 <pupnik> yeah but it sounded like work was being done
May 17 12:37:04 <ruskie> need to find them room and possibly print servers
May 17 12:38:41 <ruskie> of course now-a-days you enter a computer store and say I need a parallel/lpt port cable with a centronix connector... all the y'ng ones with not even any hair on their chins will just stare wide-eyed at you
May 17 12:39:04 <ruskie> or even a centronix print server
May 17 12:39:15 <trx> haha
May 17 12:39:19 <trx> true
May 17 12:42:05 <ruskie> and apparently they lack a definition of "good hardware"
May 17 12:42:46 <ruskie> is this plasticky switch any good since it's the only one you have on offer... erm ow yeah no probs at all... has been chugging along for the past year...
May 17 12:43:09 <ruskie> hook up... ok works... pass 9 months... part of the network stops working
May 17 12:46:47 <chem|st> Macer: post network printers speak postscript or any common language and you can send files in that format to them without queue if the ram of the printer is huge enough
May 17 13:00:40 * DocScrutinizer glares at his hp lj-p1505
May 17 13:01:12 <Macer> chem|st: heh. well. i will dick around with getting maemo to print tomorrow. too much to do now.
May 17 13:01:18 <DocScrutinizer> just amazing it works at all under linux
May 17 13:01:32 <Macer> like i said.. i was happy enough i was able to use my su8w like an actual keyboard
May 17 13:01:37 <Macer> i typed up a huge report all on my n900 :)
May 17 13:01:57 <Macer> i haven't had a need for gnumeric tho.. i'm glad both apps save as od?
May 17 13:02:30 <Macer> well. actually both apps save as pretty much anything :) they're aweswome for a portable office suite
May 17 13:02:46 <Macer> at the very least better than anything android has atm
May 17 13:03:34 <DocScrutinizer> spell: andridiot
May 17 13:04:14 <pupnik> http://www.erikyyy.de/tempest/   listen to music via RF from your CRT monitor
May 17 13:04:44 <Macer> maybe but at least the hardware manufacturers for android phones seem a lot more open with getting their hardware to work with the community than nokia has ever been
May 17 13:06:16 <Macer> i've never heard cyanogen saying "we can't get the camera going after 3 years because htc..."
May 17 13:10:07 <SpeedEvil> Aren't android 'ROMs largely simply reusing the original - not OS - apps without proper licencing?
May 17 13:10:33 <Macer> who cares.. it works and they're not getting sued over it :)
May 17 13:11:07 <Macer> companies probably just turn a blind eye to it because it draws people to their phones.. google turns a blind eye because they advance android and draw more people to them.. it's win win
May 17 13:11:12 <Macer> a concept nokia never understood
May 17 13:12:14 <Macer> i've rooted and installed cyanogen on friends' G1s and G2s and they love it.. later they come with someone else asking me to do the same
May 17 13:13:01 <Macer> and people are wondering why android is taking over the world.. because they are simply doing it right. they're starting to crush iphones
May 17 13:13:24 <Macer> nokia is on its way out sooner or later after this ms disaster
May 17 13:13:44 <Macer> palm is a joke
May 17 13:14:07 <Macer> symbian might have a chance on the $5 prepay phones that can't do shit
May 17 13:14:11 <pupnik> no repositories
May 17 13:16:04 <Macer> cyanogen probably added another year to my G1 :) since TMob saw no need to actually put out updates in a timely fashion. Wow did android suck when it first came out.. but look at how far it has coome.. you can use the dev argument about dalvik this and that... no xorg.. blahblah.. but it works and that's what is important. and has apps and features people actually want
May 17 13:16:35 <pupnik> google momentum
May 17 13:16:50 <pupnik> if nokia had pushed maemo big, they would have had nokia momentum
May 17 13:16:55 <pupnik> 2007-2008
May 17 13:16:55 <Macer> pupnik: maybe. but google makes things people want too
May 17 13:17:01 <Macer> pupnik: that's hindsight
May 17 13:17:08 <pupnik> that was my foresight
May 17 13:17:09 <Macer> of course they could have
May 17 13:17:18 <Macer> but they dropped the ball and are now out of the game
May 17 13:17:24 <pupnik> they were early
May 17 13:17:24 <chem|st> Macer: nokia is aware of further loss of at least 15% marketshare for smartphones due to transitional gaps, they still remain leading supplier of mobile devices
May 17 13:17:46 <Macer> chem|st: heh. that gap is going to grow
May 17 13:18:15 <chem|st> Macer: yeah it is a realy dumb idea to dodge maemo and "wait" for wp7
May 17 13:18:20 <Macer> only thing keeping nokia alive are its cheap phones that they sell to india indians
May 17 13:18:50 <Macer> chem|st: it sure was. if they put their full weight behind maemo and dropped symbian when they had a chance then maemo would be doing amazing things
May 17 13:19:00 <Macer> not to mention their half assed "community support" which was just for marketing
May 17 13:19:08 <chem|st> actualy I'd like to see wp7 for enterprise solutions and maemo/meego for all other smartphones and keep symbian for the lowcost devices
May 17 13:19:31 <Macer> chem|st: symbian has to go to the low cost devices.. nobody wants it anymore
May 17 13:19:41 <Macer> it is pretty much a worthless throw away os
May 17 13:19:55 <chem|st> Macer: it is not a matter of want it is a matter of price
May 17 13:20:07 <Macer> demand drives price
May 17 13:20:27 <chem|st> still symbian is one of the best enterprise solutions I know which do not need extra servers for everything
May 17 13:20:47 <Macer> i would have thought the blackberry stuff was better
May 17 13:21:05 <Macer> which is why i am sure blackberries still own the cooperate world :)
May 17 13:21:11 <chem|st> enterprise solutions do not need to do fancy they need to work, safe, secure and reliable
May 17 13:21:26 <chem|st> Macer: yes
May 17 13:21:41 <Macer> most people don't think "secure" when they think windows
May 17 13:22:10 <Macer> be it because of their market share of PCs runnign windows.. but windows is always the one which is attacked the most and also the easiest to do it to
May 17 13:22:31 <chem|st> but still companies like Daimler let their emps choose between a blackberry and a nokia for the sole reason to have not "only" one supplier at hand
May 17 13:23:08 <pupnik> robustness has gotten more attention since the japan quakes
May 17 13:23:24 <Macer> pupnik: the word? :)
May 17 13:23:29 <chem|st> huge companies cycle suppliers over time to keep the market running (at least the intelligent systems)
May 17 13:23:35 <Macer> i am kind of sick of hearing "cloud" myself
May 17 13:23:39 <pupnik> Macer: alternatives
May 17 13:24:10 <pupnik> Macer: in designing systems and outsourcing solutions, you can optimise but sometimes that optimisation leads to fragility
May 17 13:24:48 <chem|st> all my closer friends move back to "phone just phone" but for the dirty bit, waterproof >2m for 30mins, dustproof et al
May 17 13:25:05 <chem|st> no more fancy stuff
May 17 13:25:28 <Macer> heh. i have a g1 g2 and n900.. just because the su8w started to work with my n900.. i almost see no moe need for the g2
May 17 13:25:43 <Macer> android is pretty ... but maemo just found a special place in my heart again
May 17 13:25:47 <chem|st> and for sure as soon as I get a UMPC as light and durable as the n900 I dodge the smartphone market again
May 17 13:25:51 <Macer> and the n900 has actually turned into a sensible office solution
May 17 13:26:01 <chem|st> true
May 17 13:26:33 <Macer> if maemo concentrated on things like bt keyboards and printing when it first came out.. it would be leading the pack :)
May 17 13:26:34 <chem|st> I thought of buying one or two in spare account just to have untouched hardware for the next years before they stop selling it
May 17 13:26:42 <Macer> especially considering the powerful linux based apps it can run
May 17 13:27:08 <Macer> nothing beats abiword in android.. and i've tried them all heh
May 17 13:27:22 <pupnik> maybe meego device will be a phone
May 17 13:27:27 <Macer> but then again i'm a big kde4 fan so maybe it's just me :)
May 17 13:27:43 <Macer> pupnik: i am incredibly skeptical about meego.. nokia turned meego into sega
May 17 13:28:04 <chem|st> just recently "no you are not... damn you are... freak... to keep the list short... how good is it with the coffeemaker?"
May 17 13:28:12 <Macer> abandon this for that.. then abandon this for that.. and so on and so forth until nobody wants it because it will be abandoned again
May 17 13:28:26 <Macer> as they proved with maemo
May 17 13:28:44 <Macer> and i can't think of any other manufacturer who will pick up meego as their os
May 17 13:28:54 <Macer> intel will probably release some pad that will fail
May 17 13:29:18 <chem|st> Macer: meego is already on a productive device
May 17 13:29:28 <chem|st> I mean "sold" with
May 17 13:30:37 <chem|st> Macer: http://wetab.mobi/en/product/
May 17 13:32:28 <chem|st> damn I need to nice things like tar and stuff by default...
May 17 13:32:40 <chem|st> music stopped again :\
May 17 13:33:08 <DocScrutinizer> (meego)-> [2011-05-17 13:29:21] <kjokinie> alterego: about uptime.. I haven't run measurements lately, though jhnikula made couple of patches to fix the audio parts, we should be in the ballpark of 15mA consumption when idling currently... battery is 1320mAh, you can do the math yourself :)
May 17 13:33:36 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-05-17 13:30:26] <kjokinie> alterego: that's still almost 3 times the maemo consumption
May 17 13:34:30 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-05-17 13:31:24] <kimju> I'm seeing quite a lot cpu activity, we are not staying idle that much
May 17 13:34:38 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: idle wifi logged in with a few accounts gives 20mA^^
May 17 13:35:20 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-05-17 13:37:02] <kimju> and another issue is that sometimes the device stays "idling" around ~65mA level. no idea about what is causing that
May 17 13:36:07 <Macer> :)
May 17 13:36:46 <DocScrutinizer> </quote> and that's not going to change any time soon for meego-arm, as they rely on a general-purpose upstream kernel and middleware that's written by guys ignorant of the particular needs of an embedded device
May 17 13:37:18 <Macer> meego uses fennec by default. that should say it all right there :)
May 17 13:37:37 <DocScrutinizer> so better don't hold your breath for a *proper* true meego based phone
May 17 13:40:30 <Macer> chem|st: "based on meego" that would make me nervous to buy one right there
May 17 13:40:32 <GAN900> Another dual-core Android monster phone.
May 17 13:40:35 <Macer> wonder how much they sell them for
May 17 13:40:41 <GAN900> N950 better kick ass.
May 17 13:40:51 <edheldil> Macer:  500e
May 17 13:41:10 <Macer> edheldil: ah. so judging by the Greece problems.. $20US?
May 17 13:41:16 <Macer> :) jk
May 17 13:41:59 <DocScrutinizer> judging by the US deficit, probably around 1500USD
May 17 13:42:03 <Macer> euro banks are better at bailing countries out than our treasury dept.. when they're not off raping maids and what not
May 17 13:42:17 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: the european deficit is probably just as much ;)
May 17 13:42:29 <edheldil> Macer:  heard about immininet US bankrupcy on TV, so I would not be as impertinent ;-)
May 17 13:42:37 <GAN900> Hooray for collectivist assholes.
May 17 13:42:45 <Macer> edheldil: it's ok.. we have tanks :)
May 17 13:43:00 <DocScrutinizer> well, EU hastn't received a credibility warning of a top notch rating agency yet
May 17 13:43:08 <Macer> "yet"
May 17 13:43:25 <DocScrutinizer> so what, USA actually has
May 17 13:43:34 <Macer> hahaha.. fair enough :)
May 17 13:43:47 <Macer> $US is still gaining on the euro every day
May 17 13:43:55 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, as your politicians seems more agressively collectivist across the board, I don't think it'll take too long. :P
May 17 13:44:08 <Macer> only thing slowing it down is europe.. talk about chicken and the egg
May 17 13:44:18 <Macer> too many EU investments here
May 17 13:44:28 <Macer> free trade in a nutshell i suppose
May 17 13:44:36 <Macer> at least we dragged everybody down with our housing market :)
May 17 13:44:46 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
May 17 13:45:11 <Macer> you don't think we love free trade because of the profits do you? it's really just to make sure when we go we take everybody else with us
May 17 13:45:19 <DocScrutinizer> and it's actually harder to get 37 credit cards each holding debit, in random EU country
May 17 13:45:24 <GAN900> Macer, this situation has very little to do with free trade. ;)
May 17 13:45:43 <Macer> GAN900: :) the situation here does.
May 17 13:46:07 <GAN900> More like protectionism, government-sponsored credit overextension, out-of-control entitlement spending, corporatism, etc.
May 17 13:46:11 <chem|st> OPEC already dropped $ out of their funds cycle, now its EUR YEN and their own currency
May 17 13:46:25 <GAN900> None of those have anything to do with the free market or capitalism.
May 17 13:46:42 <pupnik> the latter word gets used to mean different things
May 17 13:46:42 <chem|st> mexico sold all their $ balances
May 17 13:46:42 <GAN900> Since what we practice in the US bears only a passing resemblance.
May 17 13:47:04 <Macer> so just piss poor world wide government fiscal irresponsibility?
May 17 13:47:24 <Macer> chem|st: how do you know that isn't the grand plan? :)
May 17 13:47:43 <GAN900> Macer, that's a big part of it, but there's also the nasty corporate cronyism between politicians and monopolists.
May 17 13:48:09 <Macer> tell the nasdaq to reduce the rating.. drop the value.. buy it back incredibly cheap... then await the housing market return and sell AIG at a huge gain eliminating the debt
May 17 13:48:46 <GAN900> Also: stop paying people just for getting old.
May 17 13:49:00 <Macer> well. :)
May 17 13:49:10 <Macer> social security is more so a mess because it was the cookie jar
May 17 13:49:12 * DocScrutinizer funds bartertown
May 17 13:49:23 <Macer> not to mention people are paid more than they put in which was not its intent
May 17 13:49:29 <Macer> but old people vote so they get what they want :)
May 17 13:50:01 <GAN900> Ponzi scheme
May 17 13:50:10 <Macer> sure is
May 17 13:50:17 <Macer> worst one ever made :)
May 17 13:50:20 <pupnik> wb wazd
May 17 13:50:26 <Macer> had good intentions tho
May 17 13:50:43 <GAN900> The road to hell and whatnot.
May 17 13:50:44 <pupnik> so did pol pot
May 17 13:50:55 <GAN900> Collectivism just doesn't get you anywhere.
May 17 13:51:17 <GAN900> And, frankly, I don't think it ever had good intentiond.
May 17 13:51:20 <pupnik> what youtube viewer do you use on n900?
May 17 13:51:24 <GAN900> It's always about control.
May 17 13:51:34 <GAN900> Quieting the discontented masses.
May 17 13:51:38 <GAN900> MicroB
May 17 13:51:51 <chem|st> Macer: grandplan? the us is actualy bankrupt
May 17 13:52:04 <pupnik> GAN900: i'd prefer not using the flah vm
May 17 13:52:09 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: now you begin to see why I refuse to own a credit card
May 17 13:52:17 <pupnik> chem|st: and germany isn't?
May 17 13:52:38 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: definitely not yet
May 17 13:52:44 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, because collectivists want to bribe everybody into believing they're not evil?
May 17 13:52:55 <BCMM> talking of youtube, are there any hardware-accelerated HTML5 <video> implementation for the n900?
May 17 13:53:01 <GAN900> There's nothing wrong with reasonable credit
May 17 13:53:01 <chem|st> pupnik: as long as you get deposit your at least save
May 17 13:53:04 <BCMM> i mean, the hardware ought to be capable of it
May 17 13:53:14 <GAN900> Only way to grow an economy with any sort of speed.
May 17 13:54:04 <pupnik> BCMM: there's .flv player (mplayer) that does the job much better than flash
May 17 13:54:09 <DocScrutinizer> bartertown is the future
May 17 13:54:24 <BCMM> pupnik: most stuff does most stuff better than flash :)
May 17 13:54:25 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: I run bartertown
May 17 13:54:35 <nid0> I fail to see how my credit card is in any way evil :\
May 17 13:54:44 <chem|st> can we please get rid of flash and java?!
May 17 13:54:45 <BCMM> but mplayer still isn't hardware-accelerated, is it?
May 17 13:54:49 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: I'll call you Turner
May 17 13:55:19 <pupnik> barter is not the future, it's the deep past
May 17 13:55:22 <BCMM> but yeah, even on my desktop i typically watch youtube in mplayer
May 17 13:55:37 <pupnik> correct BCMM
May 17 13:55:47 <BCMM> i have a short script that uses youtube-dl to get the URL, then plays it in mplayer
May 17 13:56:10 <pupnik> there's also a youtube-shell that will let you search and launch youtubes from command line
May 17 13:56:18 <BCMM> there ought to be a firefox extension to replace youtube vids with an mplayer-starting button
May 17 13:57:08 <pupnik> or a *anything* starting button
May 17 13:57:38 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: see? history running in circles
May 17 13:58:16 <pupnik> raise the transaction costs too high and civilization collapses into a new dark age
May 17 13:58:45 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: Masterblaster please
May 17 13:58:52 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: clubs are weapons of the deep past as well, still Einstein said he doesn't know about WW3, but he's sure clubs are the weapons of WW4
May 17 13:59:21 <nid0> except he misspoke
May 17 13:59:43 <nid0> there'll still be someone somewhere with a gun for ww4, and he'll beat the clubs hands-down
May 17 14:01:20 <chem|st> what is the definition of WW3? Terrorist VS western hemisphere sounds pretty much like WW3
May 17 14:01:44 <DocScrutinizer> nid0: that might be true for guns and clubs (though I doubt), but it doesn't apply to power of money and stock market speculations in the financial war. Bartering won't simply care about little papers with funny printings on them, no matter how much of then anybody got
May 17 14:02:34 <nid0> well, until that day comes along, im perfectly happy with the convenience of swiping my shiny little bit of plastic to pay for things :)
May 17 14:03:39 <chem|st> nid0: worst case, this year already... some huge countries are walking the razoredge already
May 17 14:05:17 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, yes, fiat currency is ridiculous.
May 17 14:05:27 <GAN900> Doesn't mean barter is a viable alternative.
May 17 14:05:40 <GAN900> What you're actually looking for is the gold standard. :P
May 17 14:05:44 <DocScrutinizer> sure, never claimed that
May 17 14:06:25 <DocScrutinizer> just playing one of my sarcastic fatalistic jokes on our modern world
May 17 14:07:16 <DocScrutinizer> not all of a joke, when you look at Greece getting economy-bombed back to ~1920
May 17 14:08:20 <DocScrutinizer> next: Ireland, Portugal, USA, the world
May 17 14:08:29 <DocScrutinizer> ;-D
May 17 14:09:33 <pupnik>  funny that linux compositing WM's still haven't supported keycolor transpareency in like 8 years
May 17 14:10:14 <DocScrutinizer> thought we got alpha for that
May 17 14:10:40 <DocScrutinizer> compositing isn't a bluebox
May 17 14:10:42 <pupnik> it means that your text is unreadable
May 17 14:11:00 <pupnik> it's the wrong solution
May 17 14:11:34 * pupnik thwaps linux kids with Foley & Van Damme
May 17 14:12:09 <Macer> word
May 17 14:12:15 <Macer> damn sshguard
May 17 14:12:28 <Macer> :) i didn't whitelist my local subnet
May 17 14:12:42 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
May 17 14:16:32 <Macer> love west wing
May 17 14:16:43 <Macer> best damn thing martin sheen was ever in
May 17 14:27:04 <ShadowJK> http://bellard.org/jslinux
May 17 14:27:16 <ShadowJK> ultimate madness: running that in fennec on n900
May 17 14:27:25 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
May 17 14:27:53 <DocScrutinizer> please don't tell me some fool implemented the kernel in js
May 17 14:27:54 <Macer> haha
May 17 14:27:58 <Macer> yup
May 17 14:28:06 <jaska> its just x86 emu
May 17 14:28:16 <Macer> no chromium for maemo?
May 17 14:28:22 <ShadowJK> It's qemu implemented in js
May 17 14:28:45 <DocScrutinizer> PFFFF
May 17 14:28:49 <DocScrutinizer>   ERROR: your browser is too old to run JS/Linux.
May 17 14:28:50 <DocScrutinizer>                                                                                   
May 17 14:28:51 <DocScrutinizer>   You should use a recent browser such as Firefox 4.x or Google Chrome.
May 17 14:29:04 <ShadowJK> 2.5 minutes: kernel booted, init starting
May 17 14:29:23 <DocScrutinizer> <YAAAWN>
May 17 14:29:27 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: yah.. me too hahaha
May 17 14:29:31 <Macer> old microb
May 17 14:29:41 <ShadowJK> oh hey I have a prompt
May 17 14:29:47 <Macer> is microb even being developed anymore?
May 17 14:29:48 * ShadowJK is running it in fennec
May 17 14:30:32 <DocScrutinizer> I couldn't think of anything more useless atm - maybe that changes on my next booze
May 17 14:31:10 <ShadowJK> I'm surprised this boots on n900 at all
May 17 14:31:22 <ShadowJK> in a time less than the expected age of the universe
May 17 14:32:00 <Macer> haha
May 17 14:32:10 <DocScrutinizer> meh, you don't assume this to be some serious thing
May 17 14:32:13 <DocScrutinizer> you do?
May 17 14:32:54 <ShadowJK> fabrice always does crazy tech demos
May 17 14:33:09 <ShadowJK> like the tcc compile+boot kernel in 8 secs
May 17 14:33:25 <mece> jacekowski, ping
May 17 14:33:55 <ShadowJK> or producing valid DVB-T signal by drawing the right patterns of pixels to framebuffer
May 17 14:34:18 <DocScrutinizer> o,O
May 17 14:34:52 <ShadowJK> only in the VHF band, but still :)
May 17 14:35:31 <pupnik> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/16/android_impersonation_attacks/ 99% of Android phones leak secret account credentials   anyone miss this?
May 17 14:36:10 <DocScrutinizer> andridiot, meh. who cares
May 17 14:37:11 <DocScrutinizer> as if I had expected anything different - of course each andridiot system is leaking all info to google
May 17 14:37:37 <mece> pupnik, #obvious
May 17 14:38:11 <mece> pupnik, although I always enjoy spreading dirt on google, so thanks for the link :)
May 17 14:39:06 <mece> speaking of evil, I mean google, has anyone tried to compile chromium 11 for maemo?
May 17 14:39:34 <pupnik> hahah
May 17 14:39:42 <ShadowJK> lol
May 17 14:39:42 <pupnik> how many GB source does it require
May 17 14:41:11 <pupnik> Well done Google, authentication tokens over plain HTTP, top marks for stupidity.
May 17 14:42:45 <ShadowJK> I recently saw someone's hotmail account taken over for exact same reason
May 17 14:43:35 <ShadowJK> apparently https is "optional" and you have to go into settings (and there are like 5 different settings links, taking you to different subsets of settings with no apparent pattern)
May 17 14:43:41 <ShadowJK> and enable https
May 17 14:43:53 <DocScrutinizer> hexavalent chromium (Cr(VI) or Cr6+) is very toxic and mutagenic
May 17 14:45:07 <DocScrutinizer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexavalent_chromium#Toxicity
May 17 14:45:48 <mece> pupnik, talking to me?
May 17 14:46:12 <pupnik> mece: me?
May 17 14:46:23 <mece> pupnik, (05:37:06 PM) pupnik: how many GB source does it require
May 17 14:46:25 <pupnik> yes, the chromium source
May 17 14:46:47 <mece> pupnik, no idea. I was just curious.
May 17 14:47:30 * DocScrutinizer is waiting for a browser caled VX
May 17 14:47:50 <mece> pupnik, I've tried to make sense of Capt'n Corrupt's ramblings on tmo regarding chrome os, and afaik chrome browser == chrome os in practice.
May 17 14:49:16 <DocScrutinizer> isn't chrome OS basically a bloated browser to do everything as HTML?
May 17 14:51:19 <DocScrutinizer> >> Since Google Chrome OS is aimed at users who spend most of their computer time on the Internet, the only application on the device will be a browser incorporating a media player.<<
May 17 14:51:57 <chem|st> reality got me back....
May 17 14:52:18 <mece> DocScrutinizer, yes.
May 17 14:52:36 <mece> DocScrutinizer, so chrome os < ALL OTHER OS's
May 17 14:52:48 <DocScrutinizer> fsckit
May 17 14:52:55 <chem|st> stupitity is no excuse^^
May 17 14:53:27 <DocScrutinizer> I suggest a kernel with built-in X, so all you do at boottime is open a X port and connect to a remote server
May 17 14:54:19 <DocScrutinizer> *BLAERGH*
May 17 14:54:36 <mece> DocScrutinizer, a whaa?
May 17 14:55:30 <pupnik> remember thin clients
May 17 14:55:42 <DocScrutinizer> I know, I know
May 17 14:56:32 <chem|st> ~400mW with wifi and playback of mp3s over headset is not that bad would love to have that on my netbook... there my system up "only" is 10W
May 17 14:56:32 <infobot> that's too long, chem|st
May 17 14:57:05 <chem|st> ~IDK
May 17 14:57:05 <infobot> hmm... idk is I don't know
May 17 14:57:32 <DocScrutinizer> ~kick chem|st
May 17 14:57:32 * infobot kicks chem|st
May 17 14:57:42 <DocScrutinizer> ;-)
May 17 14:58:13 <chem|st> ~coffee DocScrutinizer
May 17 14:58:14 * infobot steals some of ZogG's special coffee and gives it to DocScrutinizer on a silver platter.
May 17 14:58:16 <ShadowJK> I sounds low, but if it's playback of mp3 on N900, it makes sense
May 17 14:58:30 <Macer> hm
May 17 14:58:38 <Macer> let me try out firefox
May 17 14:58:45 <chem|st> 70mA at 4.xV
May 17 14:58:54 <Macer> maybe it is just because i used fennec while it w2as n[Cw
May 17 14:59:00 <Macer> was new
May 17 14:59:57 <chem|st> I needed to purge fennec and install it from scratch as some of the upgrades did screw it
May 17 15:00:06 <Macer> omg why is app manager so slow
May 17 15:00:25 <Macer> i blame python
May 17 15:00:30 <lcuk> macer with -devel enabled, it has every version of every package
May 17 15:00:33 <DocScrutinizer> because of the huge repos it has to update and rebuild the local db
May 17 15:00:54 <Macer> oh
May 17 15:01:07 <lcuk> suggestions in the past would be to have the repositories including only required dependencies I think
May 17 15:01:31 <DocScrutinizer> hi lcuk
May 17 15:01:35 <lcuk> hi DocScrutinizer  \o
May 17 15:02:04 <ShadowJK> app manager on my N900 does "Hcecking for updates" after every single tap
May 17 15:02:24 <ShadowJK> and doesn't update automatically when not running HAM
May 17 15:02:27 <DocScrutinizer> that's indeed the unique feature of HAM
May 17 15:02:30 <chem|st> Macer: 18MB repos if all extras are enabled
May 17 15:03:07 <lcuk> I am guessing it would be possible to scan and filter to specifically required packages
May 17 15:03:28 <lcuk> so that all dependencies are cared for
May 17 15:03:36 <lcuk> but that would be server side
May 17 15:03:42 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: speaking outa my a... I'd say that's almost exactly what HAM does
May 17 15:03:58 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, server side - good point
May 17 15:04:21 <edheldil> there is also a possibility to run apt-get install and apt-cache search directly ;-)
May 17 15:04:34 <Macer> no flash in fennec?
May 17 15:04:36 <lcuk> edheldil, PITA for end users
May 17 15:04:44 <DocScrutinizer> edheldil: also dangerous
May 17 15:04:52 <chem|st> and incremental diff support to not have a download of xMB each update
May 17 15:05:04 <mece> Macer, you can do some about:config setting hack to enable flash
May 17 15:05:25 <ShadowJK> I just tapped "Update". So one repo died, it popped up message about that. Upon tapping "Details", to see which repo failed, it went "Checking for updates" again.
May 17 15:05:29 <chem|st> Macer: about:config^^
May 17 15:05:43 <chem|st> Macer: its just not activated
May 17 15:05:45 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: that's odd
May 17 15:06:05 <chem|st> ShadowJK: vlc died lately
May 17 15:06:09 <ShadowJK> yeah
May 17 15:06:55 <Macer> chem|st: ok. i will hunt it down
May 17 15:07:09 <ShadowJK> sygic too
May 17 15:14:32 <Macer> chem|st: uhm
May 17 15:14:45 * GeneralAntilles teehees.
May 17 15:14:52 <Macer> what do i enable
May 17 15:15:04 <Macer> about:config has a million options
May 17 15:15:11 <GeneralAntilles> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/05/firmware-hack-can-transform-a-2009-mac-pro-into-a-12-core-monster.ars
May 17 15:16:14 <DocScrutinizer> monster as in "no sw support for those friggin cores"?
May 17 15:16:47 <pupnik> n900fly is on maemo-select >_<
May 17 15:17:02 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer: OS X is quite good on the SMP.
May 17 15:17:32 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer: do a lot of video and CGI stuff that parallelizes well, too. ;)
May 17 15:20:35 <DocScrutinizer> well, the URL wording is massively misleading. It's about a physical CPU upgrade and how to support it via EFI. I thought they're going to enable user to use some "hidden" cores - like the shaders in gfx or sth - which wouldn't exactly match the def for SMP
May 17 15:21:36 <ShadowJK> the fact you have to hack firmware to do a cpu upgrade...
May 17 15:21:46 <DocScrutinizer> is bad enough
May 17 15:21:46 <ShadowJK> spot the facepalm
May 17 15:22:18 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer: yes, well. ;)
May 17 15:22:24 <GeneralAntilles> ShadowJK: yes, I agree.
May 17 15:22:34 <GeneralAntilles> But the damn thing was free.
May 17 15:22:57 <DocScrutinizer> what? your 2009 mbp?
May 17 15:24:26 <mece> anyway back to android bashing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6hienXEd0Y
May 17 15:24:32 <mece> I LOL'd
May 17 15:26:10 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, my late-2004 G5 (water cooled) leaked early in 2009 and killed itsely.
May 17 15:26:17 <GeneralAntilles> s/itsely/itself
May 17 15:26:21 <mece> the video brings up the question are both processors actually used on the atrix?
May 17 15:27:11 <chem|st> isnt fring the microsoft facebook?
May 17 15:27:15 <GeneralAntilles> Took about 5 months, but I eventually got Apple to replace it wholesale after first having them agree to a free repair of: motherboard, PSU, case, and CPUs, which was DOA.
May 17 15:28:05 <mece> N9 trailer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-KfxrI1NXg
May 17 15:29:53 <GeneralAntilles> OK, who wants to collect the screengrabs and post them on Talk for Thanks!+++++++
May 17 15:30:38 <Lynoure> mece: the real device will come with even longer shots of beautiful people and scenery? :)
May 17 15:31:39 <GeneralAntilles> "Your watched item, Nikon Nikkor 85mm f1.4, is ending soon" clearly filmed by a photographer.
May 17 15:32:35 <ShadowJK> Someone reply with "What about flash10 and 3g video calls?!" to that youtoob
May 17 15:32:45 <ShadowJK> :P
May 17 15:34:40 <ShadowJK> hm, so.. No lens cover, single flash (led or xenon?), portrait mode, cocaine dispenser, hw keyboard N97 style,
May 17 15:35:08 <ShadowJK> and too thin for a proper battery. No visible battery door?
May 17 15:35:22 <ShadowJK> This should set tmo on fire :)
May 17 15:35:26 <Jaffa> Nokia've been moving away from those for ages
May 17 15:35:31 <Jaffa> People still read TMO?
May 17 15:37:38 * ShadowJK wonders how long until MeeGo DE on N9
May 17 15:40:05 <ShadowJK> I wonder what became of Nokia's fuel cell prototypes
May 17 15:40:20 <ShadowJK> fuel cell and a Li-Ion battery in a phone
May 17 15:40:30 <ShadowJK> it did hotswap :(
May 17 15:41:47 <merge> hey, i run mozillas latest-beta repo and don't get version 4.0.1
May 17 15:41:58 <merge> why is that
May 17 15:54:34 <chem|st> ShadowJK: no cocaine dispenser would be a show stopper!
May 17 15:56:51 <mece> GeneralAntilles, good idea! :D http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1008281&postcount=505
May 17 15:59:44 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: where from you got those hw spec details?
May 17 16:01:01 <Jaffa> ShadowJK: The video on YouTube claiming to be a teaser for the N9
May 17 16:01:05 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: ^
May 17 16:01:19 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: Aspects of it look convincing that it's *some* form of Harmattan device
May 17 16:01:30 <MohammadAG> it seems to be harmattan, indeed
May 17 16:01:46 <MohammadAG> wanna bet you'll get it at meegoconf?
May 17 16:01:53 <MohammadAG> (And I won't, /me cries)
May 17 16:03:42 <Jaffa> Not sure I'd bet on it for meegoconf
May 17 16:04:28 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, pretty sure it'll be there, at least as a developer device like the 300 one in Amsterdam
May 17 16:04:30 <Jaffa> Would be nice to get something shiny
May 17 16:05:04 * DocScrutinizer frowns and turns away
May 17 16:06:20 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, if that's true then can I blame my exams for not getting one?
May 17 16:07:26 * Jaffa hopes Harmattan isn't an enormous regression in usability (e.g. good hardware keyboard, terminal, SSH, hackability)
May 17 16:07:41 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: isn't there a devel dev queue for N9?
May 17 16:07:44 <lardman> MohammadAG: I wonder if I can blame needing to move house?
May 17 16:08:39 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I'm guessing there's nothing until they announce it
May 17 16:08:42 <nid0> tbh, the keyboard cant be much worse than the n900's, but from that trailer it looks like it is a crummy n900-style 3-line job
May 17 16:08:44 <MohammadAG> at least as a dev issue
May 17 16:08:44 <lardman> I quite like the look of the E7 though, if it ran Linux
May 17 16:09:01 <MohammadAG> lardman, moving is one thing, exams is another :p
May 17 16:09:18 <Jaffa> The E7 feels a lot flimsier and more delicate than the N8, cos of the big sliding keyboard
May 17 16:09:54 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. In principle I could get to meego 2011 - but without any money to spend once I got there.
May 17 16:10:04 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, ever used an N97?
May 17 16:10:04 * SpeedEvil was idly wondering.
May 17 16:10:14 <SpeedEvil> I have way more sane things to spend cash on.
May 17 16:10:17 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: I have.
May 17 16:10:21 <lardman> MohammadAG: hey I have to invigilate some exams :p
May 17 16:10:48 <lardman> so what was that a trailer for?
May 17 16:10:51 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: if Nokia fails to send me a N9 evaluation PV sample, after I've proven on N900to find all the bugs in hw, then they're more ignorant than I ever thought
May 17 16:11:20 <Jaffa> lardman: Looks to be RM-680, a Harmattan device.
May 17 16:11:33 <lardman> Jaffa: ah, finally it breaks cover
May 17 16:11:34 <Jaffa> Whether that's the "N9" or the "N9 Dev Device" or...
May 17 16:11:39 <lardman> I have given up reading TMO
May 17 16:11:42 <nid0> thank christ its not edof
May 17 16:11:45 <MohammadAG> N9 isn't the name afaik
May 17 16:11:54 <MohammadAG> that's for Windows Phone 7 stuff
May 17 16:12:01 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Oh?
May 17 16:12:35 <MohammadAG> Yeah, I thought they went back to NXXX
May 17 16:12:40 <MohammadAG> like N950
May 17 16:12:49 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: There's been no public talk about a name. There was the "N950" to set expectations over what you'd get, and there was the Settings translations debacle which contained
May 17 16:13:13 <Jaffa> ..."About my N9" - but that could change at any point.
May 17 16:13:14 <MohammadAG> anyway, I guess we should refer to it as the RM-680
May 17 16:13:21 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Or "Harmattan device"
May 17 16:13:24 <MohammadAG> it's a shame it won't have an RGB LED, that's a big regression imo
May 17 16:13:55 <lcuk> the n900 has 384001 RGB leds :P
May 17 16:14:03 <SpeedEvil> No it doesn't.
May 17 16:14:08 <Jaffa> No it... snap
May 17 16:14:08 <SpeedEvil> It has one.
May 17 16:14:17 <lcuk> ok it has 384000 RGB lcd thingies
May 17 16:14:20 <lcuk> and 1 led
May 17 16:14:32 <MohammadAG> by the looks of it, the N950 will also lack lasers
May 17 16:14:37 * MohammadAG is disappointed
May 17 16:14:43 <lardman> and a couple of RGB ones which have the same output on each channel
May 17 16:14:45 <Jaffa> And a tea's made
May 17 16:14:48 <SpeedEvil> What about lazors?
May 17 16:14:55 <Jaffa> s/made/maid/
May 17 16:14:56 <infobot> Jaffa meant: And a tea's maid
May 17 16:15:03 <SpeedEvil> lardman: more than that - keyboard and display LEDs too
May 17 16:15:07 <SpeedEvil> lardman: a dozenish
May 17 16:15:08 <lcuk> will it come with seabass attachment though?
May 17 16:15:12 <lardman> SpeedEvil: true :)
May 17 16:15:34 <MohammadAG> I want the one that shoots portals!
May 17 16:15:37 <DocScrutinizer> those aren't RGB
May 17 16:16:09 <lcuk> MohammadAG, interesting
May 17 16:16:16 <DocScrutinizer> they're evidently BY aka white
May 17 16:16:56 <DocScrutinizer> N8 seems to have OLED screen?
May 17 16:17:14 <DocScrutinizer> so maybe RX680 as well?
May 17 16:17:23 <MohammadAG> RM-680
May 17 16:17:31 <DocScrutinizer> then indeed it has quite a number of RGB LEDs
May 17 16:17:34 <MohammadAG> that's what MeeGo's sources say
May 17 16:17:44 <MohammadAG> well, mce's sources
May 17 16:18:00 * lardman browses Google looking for Harmattan goodies and finds lots of pages from '09
May 17 16:18:01 <DocScrutinizer> say what?
May 17 16:18:27 <DocScrutinizer> OLED or RM-680?
May 17 16:18:46 <MohammadAG> err, what?
May 17 16:19:01 <MohammadAG> I think you're confused, I was talking about the notification light :p
May 17 16:19:08 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
May 17 16:19:19 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, idiocy
May 17 16:19:25 <MohammadAG> I have it red for SMS, green for IM, blue for emails, fading in and out red/blue for missed calls
May 17 16:19:31 <MohammadAG> one light can't indicate all those
May 17 16:19:36 <MohammadAG> so that's a regression for me
May 17 16:19:37 <SpeedEvil> Morse.
May 17 16:19:44 <DocScrutinizer> as a RGB LED isn't really more expensive than a silly white one
May 17 16:19:46 <MohammadAG> cba to learn that :p
May 17 16:20:03 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I'm guessing they went with an N8 look
May 17 16:20:09 <SpeedEvil> It's a bit more expensive. I'd guess 15 cents, not 5
May 17 16:20:18 <MohammadAG> I hope they add in hardware buttons for s(end)
May 17 16:20:26 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: no way
May 17 16:20:47 <MohammadAG> 15 cents won't break Nokia anyway
May 17 16:20:55 <DocScrutinizer> marginally more expensive, but in the range of 5ct rather than 15
May 17 16:21:11 <lardman> lol, I thought you were talking about the finish of the device
May 17 16:21:31 <MohammadAG> the screen's probably a 4" AMOLED, ala E7
May 17 16:22:05 <SpeedEvil> The cheapest LED I see in 1000s is $.37 at digikey
May 17 16:22:13 <MohammadAG> chances are Nokia learned from the N900, so a 32GB eMMC will hold rootfs
May 17 16:22:31 <lardman> so do we reckon dual core then?
May 17 16:22:34 <MohammadAG> which in turn probably means flashing = removing user data
May 17 16:22:42 <Sc0rpius> N9 will have 64 GB or so I heard
May 17 16:22:46 <lardman> Cortex A9?
May 17 16:22:55 <MohammadAG> lardman, I'm guessing single core 1.0 - 1.2
May 17 16:23:23 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, I really hope so at this point.
May 17 16:23:25 <MohammadAG> don't mind a dual core device, would need software optimizations but at least the HW's safe
May 17 16:23:31 <GeneralAntilles> Coming out of the gate with an OMAP3630 is going to be bad news.
May 17 16:23:47 <MohammadAG> wb alter
May 17 16:23:52 <MohammadAG> tab fail
May 17 16:23:52 <alterego> I have to say, that teaser trailer is very sexy
May 17 16:23:56 <GeneralAntilles> mece, more pictures.
May 17 16:24:01 <alterego> I actually did a little wee in my pants.
May 17 16:24:19 <nid0> the lack of dedicated number row on the keyboard is disappointing though :(
May 17 16:24:21 <alterego> And I like the new rocky style promo video
May 17 16:24:32 * GeneralAntilles notes the dimmer TRIAC on one of the overhead lights is now pulsing at 3hz in the "off" position. . . .
May 17 16:24:44 <MohammadAG> GeneralAntilles, I really hope I'm wrong about the single core guess but...
May 17 16:24:45 <alterego> Much cooler than the normal Nokia (look how nice and green we are)
May 17 16:25:03 <MohammadAG> the same N9 was around in what? November?
May 17 16:25:04 <GeneralAntilles> MohammadAG, I don't think you are.
May 17 16:25:17 <lardman> well whatever the case I hope they just get on with it, am getting bored of waiting
May 17 16:25:18 <GeneralAntilles> But there were those rumors about delays to update hardware.
May 17 16:25:23 <alterego> MohammadAG: unless they've updated the previous hardware (OMAP3650
May 17 16:25:23 <GeneralAntilles> lardman: +++++++++++++++++++
May 17 16:25:25 <DocScrutinizer> ok, been wrong. Actually digikey has then in the 30ct range
May 17 16:25:28 <lardman> in fact I was getting bored of waiting 8 months ago
May 17 16:25:29 <alterego> It will be single core.
May 17 16:25:49 * MohammadAG hears the sound of dreams shattering
May 17 16:25:49 <alterego> 12MP Carl Zeiss, I'm happy with that :)
May 17 16:26:00 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: (digikey) yes ^^^
May 17 16:26:06 <alterego> It looks like an aluminum back cover (like the N810 had) too
May 17 16:26:06 <nid0> and AF \o/
May 17 16:26:08 <MohammadAG> 12MP is meh, bring on 25!
May 17 16:26:21 <alterego> MohammadAG: 12MP is about as high as I'm willing to go for that size tbg
May 17 16:26:28 <alterego> Hell, it's arguable too high for that size.
May 17 16:26:38 <MohammadAG> alterego, 25 isn't realistic, your sarcasm detector's borked
May 17 16:26:46 * GAN900 orders a real backpack for SF.
May 17 16:26:47 <alterego> So's your face.
May 17 16:26:52 <MohammadAG> fu :p
May 17 16:27:17 <alterego> GAN900: we're all meeting for drunks in the Hyatt bar on Saturday night if you're interested?
May 17 16:27:26 <alterego> s/drunks/drinks/
May 17 16:27:26 <infobot> alterego meant: GAN900: we're all meeting for drinks in the Hyatt bar on Saturday night if you're interested?
May 17 16:27:33 <lardman> hmm, wish I'd applied for SF now that work has tailed off
May 17 16:27:34 <alterego> Freudian slip ...
May 17 16:27:35 <lardman> ah well
May 17 16:27:39 <GAN900> alterego, was thinking dinenr sometime before that.
May 17 16:28:01 <alterego> GAN900: I arrive at 3:30pm, I'd be happy to wander around with you ;)
May 17 16:28:08 <GAN900> And the mwkn during/after drinking.
May 17 16:28:12 <alterego> I'm arriving with Jaffa
May 17 16:28:19 <GAN900> Got a dozen or so people in for dinner.
May 17 16:28:25 <alterego> Sounds good
May 17 16:28:34 <MohammadAG> alterego, ever wondered if columbus worked in flight?
May 17 16:28:36 <lardman> do we know if there will be streaming coverage of the talks in SF?
May 17 16:28:42 <GAN900> Apparently the council is meeting up sometime in the evening for their secret planning meeting.
May 17 16:28:45 <Jaffa> GAN900: MWKN drinks/food is Sunday, no?
May 17 16:28:45 <alterego> MohammadAG: I'll be testing it :P
May 17 16:28:48 <GAN900> So maybe after that.
May 17 16:28:56 <GAN900> Oh, yes.
May 17 16:29:03 <GAN900> Saturday != Sunday
May 17 16:29:22 <lardman> depends if your logic is fuxxy
May 17 16:29:26 <lardman> fuzzy even
May 17 16:29:44 <GAN900> Well maybe if we get drunk enough it wont matter.
May 17 16:29:50 <MohammadAG> lol
May 17 16:29:58 <lardman> well that's a definition of fuzzy :)
May 17 16:29:58 <alterego> Hahah
May 17 16:30:01 <GAN900> lardman, I'm planning on providing a live IRC blog.
May 17 16:30:08 <alterego> GAN900: me too!
May 17 16:30:15 <MohammadAG> <alterego> MohammadAG: I'll be testing it :P <-- sure the speed digits will fit?
May 17 16:30:23 <lardman> cool :)
May 17 16:30:29 <alterego> MohammadAG: heh
May 17 16:30:33 <MohammadAG> I doubt you'll be traveling at 100-999 kmph speeds :p
May 17 16:30:36 <alterego> MohammadAG: overflow ftw! :)
May 17 16:30:47 <GAN900> alterego, I may be in for Saturday. I'm getting in in the evening and staying with a friend. He may want to do dinner.
May 17 16:30:50 <ShadowJK> MohammadAG, rootfs on emmc is going to be such a lagfest once you marginally even approach using more than 70% ram it wont even be funny anymore :)
May 17 16:30:58 <alterego> MohammadAG: I'll update it to include an extra 0 :P
May 17 16:31:02 <ShadowJK> especially if they're still using ext3
May 17 16:31:03 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: Columbus too the ship
May 17 16:31:07 <DocScrutinizer> tok*
May 17 16:31:14 <DocScrutinizer> damn
May 17 16:31:17 <MohammadAG> alterego, I'd start adding division
May 17 16:31:24 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: Columbus took a ship
May 17 16:31:42 <MohammadAG> so alterego's hijacking the plane?
May 17 16:31:52 <alterego> MohammadAG: yeah, I'll do a branch called "Wright" :P
May 17 16:32:25 <MohammadAG> merlin1991, I'm getting my license tomorrow :p
May 17 16:34:05 * alterego notes "Ovi Maps" in this screeny - http://nokiagadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lLLLLL.jpg
May 17 16:34:08 <lardman> ah, it seems there will indeed by live streaming :) http://sf2011.meego.com/program/live-streaming
May 17 16:34:13 <alterego> TV & Video?
May 17 16:34:14 <lardman> s/by/be
May 17 16:34:15 * ShadowJK wonders if sandisk's "iSSD" is actually non-stupid
May 17 16:34:23 <alterego> Oh no ..
May 17 16:34:42 * lardman heads for home
May 17 16:34:44 <lardman> cu chaps later
May 17 16:35:11 <SpeedEvil> I was interested to see that samsungs newer 'emmc' line offers something similar to trim.
May 17 16:36:07 <ShadowJK> Yeah... and Nokia has trim support iirc
May 17 16:36:12 <ShadowJK> (in harmattan)
May 17 16:37:22 <ShadowJK> I'm not sure trim helps much if they're still using the same fundamental algorithms as on typical sd/mmc/usbflash though..
May 17 16:39:34 * alterego notices the camera app icon looks somewhat reminiscent of this - http://a.abcnews.com/images/Technology/ap_hal_080415_ssh.jpg
May 17 16:40:27 <SpeedEvil> Trim helps modestly to avoid fragmentation on flash.
May 17 16:40:49 <SpeedEvil> It means that the flash controller explicitly knows what parts of the disk are not wanted, and can be zeroed.
May 17 16:41:03 <SpeedEvil> Rather than having to interpret.
May 17 16:41:20 <SpeedEvil> This means that there is more 'free space' for wear leveling to happen in.
May 17 16:41:51 <SpeedEvil> In a normal SD card, the 'free space' is only the space specifically allocated to wear leveling.
May 17 16:42:07 <SpeedEvil> In a trim-supporting card, it's potentially that, plus any empty space.
May 17 16:42:17 <ShadowJK> And allocation takes place in erase block sizes anyway..
May 17 16:42:53 <ShadowJK> And there's a limited (1-4, according to linaro's research) amount of pages it can keep "open" simultaneously
May 17 16:42:58 <SpeedEvil> Potentially.
May 17 16:43:06 <alterego> Ooo, the on screen keyboard looks nice.
May 17 16:43:14 * SpeedEvil wishes that the micro was exposed, and programmable again.
May 17 16:43:19 <pupnik_> elop looks like something out of a cthulhu book
May 17 16:43:46 <ShadowJK> So that means if you have two apps writing 4k sequentially, it is translated into repeated 256k (or 512k, whatever erase block size is) read-modify
May 17 16:44:13 <ShadowJK> so class rating speed divided by 64 :P
May 17 16:45:33 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: wtf are you talking about?
May 17 16:45:49 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, N9/N950 trailer
May 17 16:46:16 <DocScrutinizer> I fsckng haven't seen a vknd looking nice there
May 17 16:46:56 <DocScrutinizer> nor do I get how anybody can find out about "no visible battery door"
May 17 16:48:23 <pupnik_> thin is in
May 17 16:48:48 <alterego> Sort of looks like it could be Malik
May 17 16:48:52 <alterego> But probably not.
May 17 16:52:01 <frals> trailer wat?
May 17 16:54:53 <alterego> frals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-KfxrI1NXg
May 17 16:55:40 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: just look at the first few seconds when it rotates to show the back.
May 17 16:55:44 <alterego> Looks like brushed metal
May 17 16:55:48 <alterego> Not saying it is.
May 17 16:56:05 <alterego> Just saying it reminds me of the N810, especially with the edges at the top
May 17 16:57:40 <alterego> The flash looks a bit puney though
May 17 16:57:52 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: which timemark?
May 17 16:58:03 <alterego> ~3seconds
May 17 16:58:16 <ShadowJK> alterego, but atleast it wont blind itself with the flash
May 17 16:58:19 <ShadowJK> like n900
May 17 16:58:29 <alterego> Has anyone managed to read a disk that hasn't been finalized under windows on a Linux PC?
May 17 17:00:20 <MohammadAG> <--
May 17 17:01:01 <alterego> How?
May 17 17:01:39 <MohammadAG> just pop it in and press play
May 17 17:01:40 <MohammadAG> :p
May 17 17:01:46 <MohammadAG> it works as is for me
May 17 17:03:09 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: that's quite a blurry sth I can't tell anything from, at ~3s
May 17 17:03:21 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: yeah, it sort of comes in and out of focus.
May 17 17:03:36 <alterego> I think I'll download the video and watch it on my local machine ;)
May 17 17:03:42 <alterego> Seems to have a 1080p source ..
May 17 17:03:56 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: you in SF next week?
May 17 17:04:13 <DocScrutinizer> alas not, no CC
May 17 17:04:22 <alterego> Aw :(
May 17 17:05:20 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: you may try to find sb who understands about why to send me an evaluation sample, an NDA + a schematics
May 17 17:05:55 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: we'll see.
May 17 17:06:08 <alterego> I bet you'll all be offered dev devices
May 17 17:06:13 <SpeedEvil> Wish I had spare funds to get to SF.
May 17 17:06:38 <alterego> I'm still quite hesitant to believe they'll me giving them out in SF
May 17 17:06:44 <alterego> Seems pretty unlikely to me ..
May 17 17:06:50 <alterego> s/me/be/
May 17 17:06:51 <infobot> alterego meant: Seems pretty unlikely to be ..
May 17 17:07:03 <alterego> ffs ..
May 17 17:08:00 <alterego> Heh, there's an advert for an E7 next to the N9 vid in my browser.
May 17 17:08:36 <lardman> one thing I did forget to ask, is do we reckon it will have a digital compass?
May 17 17:08:41 * lardman hopes so
May 17 17:09:10 <alterego> lardman: I'm pretty sure it will.
May 17 17:09:15 <alterego> They're sticking them in all the others.
May 17 17:09:39 <lardman> well that was the case with the N97 too, but I do hope so
May 17 17:09:41 <alterego> I imagine peripheral wise it should be similar to N8, so I'm hoping for HDMI, USB OTG &, compo, compass etc.
May 17 17:10:01 <ShadowJK> what about a gyro
May 17 17:10:34 <lardman> for position information in lifts? ;)
May 17 17:10:51 <ShadowJK> for attitude info
May 17 17:11:10 <lardman> can't one determine that with a 3 axis accelerometer?
May 17 17:11:33 <ShadowJK> no
May 17 17:11:48 <lardman> assuming one is standing still on the ground, why not?
May 17 17:11:53 <ShadowJK> yeah
May 17 17:12:03 <ShadowJK> but not determine which way you're pointing
May 17 17:12:05 <DocScrutinizer> camera antishake is done with gyro
May 17 17:12:13 <ShadowJK> like for star gazing
May 17 17:12:16 <alterego> ShadowJK: that's why the compass is there.
May 17 17:12:45 <lardman> the gyro would need to have its orientation and heading set otherwise anyway
May 17 17:12:48 <ShadowJK> compass is slow, inaccurate and prone to interference..
May 17 17:12:59 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
May 17 17:13:10 <lardman> ok fair enough, so use compass to setup gyros?
May 17 17:13:18 <lardman> that would work I suppose
May 17 17:14:06 <lardman> afaicr the Galaxy Tab has a gyro, and it doesn't improve the behaviour of the compass that's for sure! :)
May 17 17:14:10 <rm_you> hrm, wonder what the status of meego on n900 is now <_<
May 17 17:14:58 <MohammadAG> Not bad - good
May 17 17:15:03 <lardman> the whole Meego thing has really put me off, I would like some hardware though and a toolchain that will work with it
May 17 17:15:11 <ShadowJK> Yeah, compass, accelerometer to setup gyro. Gyro gives fast response, and can distinguish between acceleration and rotation
May 17 17:15:23 <lardman> and thereby some sort of goal and platform on which to work
May 17 17:15:34 <GeneralAntilles> What a mess.
May 17 17:15:52 <lardman> ShadowJK: ok, would require decent sw to decide how to setup the gyro, but certainly doable
May 17 17:16:52 <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: eh?
May 17 17:16:57 <rm_you> Meego seems like it is moving super slowly and i'm not really sure what their real goal is, they've generalized so much, will it work RIGHT for *any* platform? >_>
May 17 17:16:57 <GeneralAntilles> MeeGo
May 17 17:17:13 <lardman> GAN900: yeah, not the ideal way to try to get your developer community doing anything imho
May 17 17:17:25 <GeneralAntilles> Unsurprising, though.
May 17 17:17:28 <DocScrutinizer> rm_you: quite to the point, yes
May 17 17:17:30 <GeneralAntilles> Intel only knows how to deal with OEMs.
May 17 17:17:37 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia is thrashing itself to death.
May 17 17:17:37 <lardman> rm_you: exactly, almost as if they have withdrawn into OEM only mode
May 17 17:17:47 <rm_you> yeah i was very disappointed by the the state of meego when they first announced it, and nothing has really changed my mind
May 17 17:18:38 <rm_you> you'd think if they really wanted a community to support it, they would have done some sprints to get it functioning properly and usably on n900 or SOME hardware ASAP
May 17 17:18:46 <rm_you> by now, no one really cares anymore
May 17 17:19:07 <DocScrutinizer> indeed, except alterego
May 17 17:19:11 <lardman> well the N900 is pretty old and slow now, so that is part of the issue
May 17 17:19:18 <lardman> certainly not shiny and new
May 17 17:19:28 <rm_you> pft, old and slow? :P still pretty good compared to many handsets
May 17 17:19:42 <rm_you> only things that beat it are the really new fancy ones, but they're not THAT much faster
May 17 17:19:42 <lardman> hmm, clock is slow, it's a brick too
May 17 17:19:49 <GeneralAntilles> Still my main.
May 17 17:19:50 <lardman> I do love it still, but times have changed
May 17 17:19:54 <lardman> still mine tpp
May 17 17:19:55 <rm_you> yeah
May 17 17:19:56 <lardman> too
May 17 17:20:01 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: if your system can't get to work properly on "old" hw like N900, then you got some fundamental problems
May 17 17:20:02 <rm_you> still using it as my main :P
May 17 17:20:21 <rm_you> i'd put n900 "middle of the road" for the current gen
May 17 17:20:21 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: certainly, just thinking about the appeal of writing sw for something
May 17 17:20:32 <lardman> rm_you: for smartphones?
May 17 17:20:42 <rm_you> yes
May 17 17:20:55 <lardman> hmm, clock is quite low for current day
May 17 17:20:56 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, you have to keep up with competitors in the end
May 17 17:21:16 <MohammadAG> people like eye candy, the N900 can't do a lot of stuff people want in that field
May 17 17:21:23 <MohammadAG> and MeeGo seems to add a lot of it
May 17 17:21:24 <DocScrutinizer> who's competitor to meego-arm?
May 17 17:21:30 <MohammadAG> to Nokia
May 17 17:22:52 <lardman> for me the poor calendar and maps are the major issue, plus slow (if complete) browser
May 17 17:22:57 <lardman> oh, and slow connection
May 17 17:23:23 <lardman> but other than those it's fine, not too bothered about bling, but I think it should be available to wow people
May 17 17:23:47 <GeneralAntilles> I want more RAM.
May 17 17:23:49 <nid0> my girlfriend still gets all starry-eyed by gasballs on the n900
May 17 17:23:51 <lardman> screen size does it no favours too
May 17 17:25:11 <pupnik_> gasballs ?
May 17 17:25:55 <nid0> pupnik_: http://store.ovi.com/content/51436 - A visual demo thing nokia released quite a while ago
May 17 17:26:07 <lardman> ah the dreaded Ovi store
May 17 17:26:07 <rm_you> i never got my Ovi store working :/
May 17 17:26:08 <lardman> :)
May 17 17:26:36 <lardman> nor did I, other than manually through HAM, and I try not to use HAM as I'm sure you'll all agree
May 17 17:28:36 <lardman> Nice work on the CSU though, I've not used the camera for ages and did so today and found some random distance numbers on the screen
May 17 17:28:46 <lardman> not sure what they do, but they looked nice
May 17 17:29:27 <rm_you> lolol
May 17 17:29:28 <DocScrutinizer> useless autofocus thing
May 17 17:29:38 <derf> Useless?
May 17 17:29:49 <derf> mbarcode really needed some autofocus.
May 17 17:30:00 <rm_you> ooo how is mbarcode doing
May 17 17:30:08 <DocScrutinizer> but no random numbers telling you... what?
May 17 17:30:26 <rm_you> last version of that i had was the version i built for n800 with the onboard UPC database :P
May 17 17:31:15 <SpeedEvil> mbarcode now doesn't crash for me on n900 - which is nic e- I just now need to work out how to get it to spit out barcodes to a named pipe, or a file.
May 17 17:31:19 <SpeedEvil> or dbus
May 17 17:37:27 <MohammadAG> <lardman> not sure what they do, but they looked nice
May 17 17:37:32 <MohammadAG> distance from focused object
May 17 17:38:58 <pupnik_> can i use it to make a shoping list and track prices?
May 17 17:42:39 <RST38h> http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/05/ron-paul-suggests-basic-freedoms-come-second-to-property-rights/
May 17 17:44:50 <alterego> MohammadAG: my QML based dialer will be in the handset images for N900 DE starting from tomorrow ;)
May 17 17:45:18 <MohammadAG> alterego, non-trolling question, how much ram does it take?
May 17 17:45:25 <alterego> No idea
May 17 17:45:28 * alterego checks
May 17 17:45:44 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, what's your point?
May 17 17:45:48 <MohammadAG> alterego, another thing, slide to answer? pwease?
May 17 17:45:53 <alterego> 16.9% when not shown.
May 17 17:46:04 <MohammadAG> wtf
May 17 17:46:20 <alterego> 15% when shown
May 17 17:46:22 <MohammadAG> so 16.9% of RAM when it's not being used?
May 17 17:46:26 <MohammadAG> damn that's a lot :/
May 17 17:46:27 * alterego chuckles.
May 17 17:46:33 <alterego> Yeah, gonna need to look into that.
May 17 17:46:40 <MohammadAG> you can't
May 17 17:46:44 <MohammadAG> it's QML :P
May 17 17:46:53 <alterego> It's QML+MTF actually
May 17 17:47:03 <alterego> And a load of other shit that isn't really needed.
May 17 17:47:17 <alterego> I imagine it could be streamlined a bit more, but that's quite typical for QML really.
May 17 17:49:49 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: (distance from focused object) would need some proper calibrating and compensation for a number of factors. It's just the current sent to an electromagnet moving the lens against some sping
May 17 17:52:08 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: so the conversation of this electric current value to some proper distance numbers needs quite some bits of mangling, probably even including device orientation relative to earth g
May 17 17:52:13 <pupnik_> http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/05/ron-paul-suggests-basic-freedoms-depend-on-property-rights/  RST38h
May 17 17:52:54 <pupnik_> nothing new about that really
May 17 17:53:04 <RST38h> heh
May 17 17:58:19 <MohammadAG> alterego, a reason I hate QML tbh
May 17 17:58:30 <MohammadAG> my mediaplayer's entraintainment view doubles ram usage
May 17 17:58:35 <MohammadAG> that's why it's not there by default
May 17 17:58:53 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, no idea, it's a number returned by digicam (the backend)
May 17 17:58:55 <Treibholz> good bye guys! I switched to android...
May 17 17:59:00 <Treibholz> with a heavy heart...
May 17 17:59:16 <MohammadAG> You'll be back
May 17 17:59:19 <MohammadAG> Eventually
May 17 17:59:30 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: yeah, and to there from v4l2 or sth
May 17 17:59:47 <Treibholz> MohammadAG: I won't sell the n900! :-)
May 17 17:59:53 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: nevertheless aiui it's not calibrated anywhere
May 17 18:00:11 <Treibholz> it will stay on my desk until I find something usefull, I can do with it.
May 17 18:01:12 <MohammadAG> Treibholz, see? You're already back
May 17 18:01:37 <trx> lol
May 17 18:01:43 <DocScrutinizer> Treibholz: If you haven't managed to find anything by now, odds are it's definitely the wrong device/OS/concept for you and there'll be nothing any more exciting in the future
May 17 18:02:48 <Treibholz> DocScrutinizer: the Maemo Concept was great, it's just dead.
May 17 18:03:06 <DocScrutinizer> oh? mine is pretty fine and alive here
May 17 18:05:38 <DocScrutinizer> and the basic idea of having the option to port basically arbitrary linux stuff to my pocket computer still delivers
May 17 18:05:49 <Treibholz> DocScrutinizer: Oh, my old Palm Vx is still working, too.
May 17 18:07:23 <DocScrutinizer> moot point
May 17 18:08:47 <trx> is there any good MySQL "explorer" on n900?
May 17 18:09:13 <DocScrutinizer> some weeks ago there's been a major new version of opera, and yesterday I updated marble
May 17 18:11:25 <RST38h> Funny: http://www.concept-phones.com/
May 17 18:15:28 <DocScrutinizer> rather depressing
May 17 18:16:08 <DocScrutinizer> trx: maybe openoffice
May 17 18:16:45 <DocScrutinizer> or any of the things that pop up on packet searck for "mysql"
May 17 18:17:00 <trx> DocScrutinizer searched packages, no results
May 17 18:17:12 <trx> (proper results)
May 17 18:17:36 <trx> its actually a good news
May 17 18:17:47 <trx> i'm gonna write one :)
May 17 18:17:47 <DocScrutinizer> tbh I don't know of any mysql explorer, no matter on which platform
May 17 18:18:27 <lardman> sorry, was cooking
May 17 18:18:35 <chx> DocScrutinizer: http://www.arabic-ps.com/?q=node/8 ?
May 17 18:18:46 <lardman> rm_you: mbarcode, doing ok, though on a break as it's been my end of year review time, so lots on at work
May 17 18:18:59 <trx> DocScrutinizer PhpMyAdmin is really good, but web based..
May 17 18:19:01 <lardman> the thought of new hw is making me think of addressing various bugs though
May 17 18:19:16 <GeneralAntilles> I hate that 5400RPM drives have had a resurgence.
May 17 18:19:20 <DocScrutinizer> trx: what's "web based"?
May 17 18:19:34 <lardman> MohammadAG: I assumed as much (re autofocus distance) though it wasn't the right number and didn't change (probably in macro mode I guess)
May 17 18:19:37 <GeneralAntilles> I keep seeing them on Slickdeals and thinking they're real drives.
May 17 18:19:48 <trx> DocScrutinizer its written in php, so you need a http server running
May 17 18:20:09 <DocScrutinizer> well, there seems to be a few to run on maemo ;-D
May 17 18:20:21 <lardman> pupnik_: re shopping lists, not quite, though it would be very easy to do, but I need to make it so
May 17 18:20:42 * lardman heads back to the kitchen bbl
May 17 18:23:26 <piggz> alterego: awesome....will it accept calls without the dialler running?
May 17 18:33:21 <DocScrutinizer> (<alterego> I imagine it could be streamlined a bit more, but that's quite typical for QML really.) I think that's typical for current "generation" of embedded developers and projects at large. Nobody cares about lean code and performance, everybody jumps on the "it's so OO and cross-platform" train
May 17 18:34:39 <DocScrutinizer> even qtmob demonstrating an amazing ignorance when it comes to system architecture details taking into account the real target platform
May 17 18:34:44 <RST38h> Doc <-- riding his favorite horse again =)
May 17 18:34:50 <DocScrutinizer> sure
May 17 18:35:07 <RST38h> Doc: Lemme throw a bit more wood onto the fire....
May 17 18:35:51 <RST38h> Doc: http://www.concept-phones.com/
May 17 18:36:02 <RST38h> Sorry, this link: http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/08/25/improving-the-string-performance-with-more-simd-or-not/
May 17 18:36:02 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h: I'm bored.
May 17 18:36:03 <DocScrutinizer> naaaah, not this again
May 17 18:36:19 <RST38h> Doc: sorry it was stuck in my paste buffer, use the second one
May 17 18:36:28 <DocScrutinizer> oh, and that one doesn't look any better
May 17 18:36:59 <DocScrutinizer> tales from the land of trolls and fools
May 17 18:37:10 <RST38h> Doc: I mean, haven't people finished optimizing string.h contents 10-15 years ago?
May 17 18:40:51 <DocScrutinizer> you dunno qstrings :-P
May 17 18:41:01 <DocScrutinizer> where every char is an object
May 17 18:41:14 <RST38h> noooo...can't  be
May 17 18:41:30 <DocScrutinizer> no kidding
May 17 18:41:53 <alterego> It's not that inefficient though
May 17 18:41:55 <alterego> Not really.
May 17 18:42:04 <alterego> And a QChar isn't realy an object so to speak ..
May 17 18:42:13 <alterego> At least, not a QObject
May 17 18:42:41 <DocScrutinizer> just that a Qtextedit box has an overhead of textsize * 1000 to *10000
May 17 18:43:02 <RST38h> I do suspect that sizeof(QChar) is 1
May 17 18:43:02 <alterego> Why?
May 17 18:43:07 <RST38h> anyone willing to check?
May 17 18:43:11 <DocScrutinizer> err, *100 to *1000
May 17 18:43:19 <alterego> It just needs to load the vtable once.
May 17 18:43:31 <alterego> A string and a character are still the size they would otherwise be.
May 17 18:43:39 <RST38h> aha
May 17 18:43:40 <alterego> (in memory)
May 17 18:44:34 <DocScrutinizer> and funny enough I've seen this gorgeous amount of used RAM just doubling on *closing*(!!) of that Qtestedit box
May 17 18:45:09 <alterego> How do you know the memory is to do with the string and not the widget itself?
May 17 18:45:41 <DocScrutinizer> I don't
May 17 18:46:47 <SpeedEvil> I was today amused at NXP - pushing 'an enhanced 32-bit RISC processor featuring improved coding efficiency  and up to 32MIPs performance, a fully compliant 2.4GHz IEEE802.15.4  transceiver, 128kB of ROM and 128kB of RAM'. As the one computer per light-bulb solution.
May 17 18:46:58 <DocScrutinizer> just know opening logs in twinkle is a friggin poor idea, when you got a logfile of ~1MB like I do
May 17 18:47:38 <RST38h> Doc: I do suspect it is mostly for rich text annotation
May 17 18:47:48 <RST38h> still would not requirethat much ram though
May 17 18:47:49 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 17 18:48:23 <DocScrutinizer> I'd be amazed if a QString can't hold richtext as well
May 17 18:48:25 <RST38h> Speed: Got an email from someone who wanted to run VGB on the NXP chip today
May 17 18:48:50 <RST38h> Doc: Why not ask at #meego? Maybe they can tell you why?
May 17 18:49:05 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: VGB?
May 17 18:49:13 <alterego> Gameboy emulator
May 17 18:49:17 <pupnik_> Wow RST38h thanks for that link, the comments are an education for me
May 17 18:55:06 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: here are some pics that kind of see what I saw: http://thehandheldblog.com/2011/05/17/nokia-n9-n950-meego-nseries-teaser-leaked/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MaemoCentral+%28The+Handheld+Blog%29
May 17 18:55:22 <alterego> Ignore the guys comments though, he's doing a fair amount of guess work in there ..
May 17 18:56:20 * slonopotamus compiled 2.6.38 openwrt kernel for n800... time to try it
May 17 18:58:08 <RST38h> yeah
May 17 19:00:09 <Sicelo_> ~nda
May 17 19:00:09 <infobot> I'm not allowed to tell you
May 17 19:00:21 <Sicelo_> lol
May 17 19:00:26 <RST38h> ~lol
May 17 19:00:26 <infobot> well, lol is stands for Laughs Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead.
May 17 19:00:27 <AcTiVaTe> I have been unable to connect to Facebook chat on my N900. Did anything change that caused it to stop working or is my install just fubar?
May 17 19:00:47 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: for all I know it could be a photoshopped hoax made from http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277338 and a few other sources
May 17 19:01:07 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: they are all stills from the video
May 17 19:01:21 <DocScrutinizer> I meant the video
May 17 19:01:25 <alterego> Oh right
May 17 19:01:40 <alterego> Yes, that is certainly a possibility, I find it quite unlikely.
May 17 19:02:59 <alterego> The models actually look very similar really. Though those leaked photos you just linked to do look like they're a prototype rather than the more refined design pictured in the video.
May 17 19:03:32 <GeneralAntilles> Good lord what sort of odious pedant wrote that factoid. . . .
May 17 19:04:27 <DocScrutinizer> ~factinfo lol
May 17 19:04:27 <infobot> lol -- last modified at Tue Aug 31 04:12:29 2004 by mentor!~matthew@mentor.registered; it has been requested 163 times, last by RST38h, 4m 1s ago; it has been locked by mentor.
May 17 19:04:43 <DocScrutinizer> mentor HAHA LOL
May 17 19:05:25 <DocScrutinizer> nomen est omen ;-D
May 17 19:05:50 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: so you'll be at the meego conf?
May 17 19:05:58 <DocScrutinizer> o/
May 17 19:07:17 * AcTiVaTe wonders if anyone even uses FB chat on their N900...
May 17 19:07:30 <alterego> GAN900: will you be joining the rest of us running N900 Developer Edition?
May 17 19:07:52 <rm_you> AcTiVaTe: not really :?
May 17 19:08:06 <alterego> I do actually,
May 17 19:08:06 <rm_you> AcTiVaTe: i had problems once  a while back, doing an apt-get upgrade fixed it
May 17 19:08:25 <rm_you> there was some lib that got held back from the application manager upgrade, had to force it
May 17 19:08:31 <GeneralAntilles> alterego: if it's not shit.
May 17 19:08:56 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you: yes.
May 17 19:08:58 <AcTiVaTe> Perhaps that's my prob, I did a reflash recently and then a restore which already caused more probs. Such as the rtcom event db that I had to let recreate
May 17 19:09:31 <alterego> GeneralAntilles: well, that depends what you mean, it's obviously not as feature full as Maemo, but it works quite nicely as is, making calls, receiving calls, sms etc.
May 17 19:09:41 <alterego> Haven't really used the calendar yet.
May 17 19:10:06 <GeneralAntilles> I need working XChat, working GTalk/AIM, working FBReader, working browser, working SMS and working call.
May 17 19:10:16 <GeneralAntilles> and I don't feel like spending a week making that happen. :P
May 17 19:10:18 <alterego> Not likely then :)
May 17 19:10:29 <alterego> Don't you have a second N900?
May 17 19:11:10 <GeneralAntilles> One has a borken USB, the other is water damaged.
May 17 19:11:16 <alterego> Hah
May 17 19:11:28 <alterego> None are under warranty?
May 17 19:11:39 * alterego got one replaced last week
May 17 19:11:47 <rm_you> heh i had three n900s at one point
May 17 19:11:58 <GeneralAntilles> The USB one is a proto, the water one is, but I haven't worked myself up to sending it in yet.
May 17 19:12:10 <rm_you> one with broken USB and one that had some serious hardware issue, possibly bad RAM
May 17 19:12:19 <alterego> You should put in the number for the water damaged one, and send in the usb one.
May 17 19:12:23 <alterego> They wont check IMEI
May 17 19:12:27 <GeneralAntilles> My DDP device is currently on loan to a friend.
May 17 19:12:30 <alterego> And they wont repair water damage for free.
May 17 19:12:42 <GeneralAntilles> The proto says "Property of Nokia" on the inside.
May 17 19:12:50 <alterego> Hah
May 17 19:12:50 <rm_you> lol
May 17 19:12:54 <alterego> Okay :P
May 17 19:12:56 <GeneralAntilles> It wasn't a lot of water.
May 17 19:13:05 <GeneralAntilles> It was just the perfect amount to short out something important.
May 17 19:13:06 <alterego> Have you tried asking for another one? :P
May 17 19:13:11 <GeneralAntilles> I've got a working one.
May 17 19:13:13 <GeneralAntilles> So, no.
May 17 19:13:23 <alterego> :)
May 17 19:13:36 <alterego> Well, I've got a spare spare, if you needed one
May 17 19:13:47 <GeneralAntilles> Nah, I've got one in good shape, so I'm OK.
May 17 19:14:52 <alterego> I could stare at the MeeGo orientation transition for hours
May 17 19:14:55 <alterego> So silky smooth ..
May 17 19:15:40 <RST38h> http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/17/intel-promises-smartphones-in-first-part-of-next-year-we-put/
May 17 19:16:59 <yigal> I want to install Angry Birds, I tried out the Chrome version recently and realized I could easily waste 3 minutes/day playing this game
May 17 19:17:03 <rm_you> rofl
May 17 19:17:04 <rm_you> " Intel blamed its partnership with Nokia, calling it a mistake. "In hindsight, Nokia was the wrong partner to have picked," said Otellini"
May 17 19:17:06 <GeneralAntilles> Like Intel's any better than Nokia.
May 17 19:17:17 <GeneralAntilles> Both of them are amazingly incompetent.
May 17 19:17:24 <yigal> hey guys here is the GMA 500
May 17 19:17:34 <yigal> it will never really work very well for you, ya we're Intel
May 17 19:17:36 <rm_you> i need to check that thing i signed for nokia a while back
May 17 19:17:51 <rm_you> i think it said i wasn't allowed to say anything negative about them for several years...
May 17 19:18:00 <yigal> WOW!
May 17 19:18:03 <alterego> Heh
May 17 19:18:13 <alterego> Yes, the normal Nokia agreement ;)
May 17 19:18:31 <alterego> I wouldn't take that _too_ seriously tbh
May 17 19:18:35 <yigal> just state the facts
May 17 19:18:43 <rm_you> lol
May 17 19:18:56 <alterego> "You are not allowed to state the facts, if the facts make us look bad"
May 17 19:19:02 <alterego> Nope, can't do that either :P
May 17 19:19:27 <yigal> :D, well that was expected
May 17 19:19:43 <yigal> how many years is this supposed to go on?
May 17 19:19:53 <alterego> infinity
May 17 19:19:54 <rm_you> dunno, that's what i was gonna check :P
May 17 19:20:23 <alterego> rm_you: that was the thing you signed to get the device in Amsterdam right?
May 17 19:23:04 <rm_you> no
May 17 19:23:05 <alterego> Actually wasn't one of the clauses you weren't allowed to talk about it?
May 17 19:23:17 <alterego> Oh, sounds like that one.
May 17 19:23:35 <rm_you> "I will not during the Term give any interview, provide any information or make any statement, whether in writing or orally, to any person, television company, radio station, newspaper, magazine or other media organisation, website or internet service which is or can be construed as being defamatory, derogatory or disparaging of W+K, the Client, its affiliates or employees or otherwise likely to adversely affect the commercial use of my Co
May 17 19:23:35 <rm_you> ntent;"
May 17 19:24:12 <rm_you> the Client = Nokia
May 17 19:24:17 <rm_you> the Term = 50 years
May 17 19:24:18 <rm_you> rofl
May 17 19:26:35 <SpeedEvil> A _50_ year NDA?
May 17 19:26:37 <SpeedEvil> Wow.
May 17 19:28:36 <SpeedEvil> You can however freely express your views on the product by Mime, interpretive dance, art, sculpture, ...
May 17 19:30:17 <kerio> how do you mime nokia?
May 17 19:30:28 <kerio> shake your hand?
May 17 19:31:48 <yigal> is Ovi store open right now, and can I download Angry Birds somehow from it - I've never actually used Ovi store, never thought it would amount to much, self fulfilling prophecy perhaps
May 17 19:34:58 <alterego> Heh
May 17 19:35:14 <alterego> rm_you: is it "50 years or if we sink, whatever comes first" ;)
May 17 19:41:57 <rm_you> i suppose :P
May 17 19:43:35 <lardman> just seeing what I missed when I dropped out
May 17 19:44:01 <lardman> I sent off a "Property of Nokia" N900 for a warranty screen fix and got some strange reactions
May 17 19:44:09 <lardman> they seemed to think I'd nicked the thing
May 17 19:44:17 <lardman> never sent it back to me of course
May 17 19:44:57 <yigal> lol
May 17 19:45:14 <ds3> speaking of screen nicks, is the touch panel surface considered part of the case (for the purposes of looking at replacement parts)?
May 17 19:50:19 <yigal> anyone using natively compiled texlive for TeXing?
May 17 19:58:27 <yigal> ah well had to change the general.useragent.override back to the original to get my Angry Birds, yay man I'm so behind the times
May 17 20:32:14 <dRbiG> grr, witter left the led blinking blue - can I somehow kill that without resetting the whole device?
May 17 20:33:06 <dRbiG> hmm
May 17 20:37:35 <dRbiG> done
May 17 20:42:46 <mece> I guess you can :D
May 17 20:50:43 <piggz> space invaders 0.3 uploaded to extras-devel, now with global hi scores, so, get competing!
May 17 20:50:54 <piggz> :)
May 17 20:51:00 <RST38h> yooooo
May 17 20:53:32 <piggz> and, please dont break the  minor security i added to prevent fraudulent scores...im not running the playstation network!
May 17 20:55:57 <Gh0sty> hmm fraudulent scores ^^
May 17 20:56:02 <RST38h> Now, once you have said that.... =B)~
May 17 20:56:13 <Gh0sty> wonder what would be the hardest ... beating the game or beating your coode :p
May 17 20:57:13 <piggz> i suspect it would be harder to break the code if it wasnt open source!
May 17 20:57:30 <RST38h> Ah holy fuck: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8512408/Roswell-was-Soviet-plot-to-create-US-panic.html
May 17 20:57:30 <ruskie> tcpdump works well ;)
May 17 21:00:01 <GeneralAntilles> http://skysurvey.org/
May 17 21:17:52 <lardman> RST38h: The Grundian has some interesting things in it sometimes, like this: http://all-that-is-interesting.com/post/4956385434/the-first-zombie-proof-house
May 17 21:18:13 <lardman> sorry I meant Guardian of course ;)
May 17 21:22:57 <pupnik> in some ways that looks pretty
May 17 21:24:11 <lardman> not sure I like the roller blinds at the front when all the other openings have nuclear-proof concrete slabs! :)
May 17 21:24:40 <RST38h> lardman: But...mmm.... don't they break through the glass?
May 17 21:24:58 * RST38h moos at javispedro
May 17 21:25:51 * javispedro moos back
May 17 21:26:11 <javispedro> pardon the absence, but believe me, it was well worth it :)
May 17 21:26:24 <lardman> RST38h: scroll down a bit, I think the concrete shutters stop that
May 17 21:26:27 <RST38h> lardman: Anyway, you have got the housing, while we have got ZOMBIES: http://idu-shagayu.livejournal.com/2527348.html#cutid1
May 17 21:26:31 <lardman> and the roller blind
May 17 21:26:32 <pupnik> what you been doing javispedro
May 17 21:26:49 <RST38h> javispedro: Was it WebOS or the opposite gender? =)
May 17 21:26:51 * javispedro graduated this very morning, and even has a job in mind, so life's in order
May 17 21:27:01 <pupnik> congrats!
May 17 21:27:07 <lardman> RST38h: hmm, my Russian is a little rusty, time to get Google on the case
May 17 21:27:22 <RST38h> lardman: forget the text, pictures say it all
May 17 21:27:38 <lardman> lol Google reckons that's Italian on auto-detect :D
May 17 21:27:40 <javispedro> pupnik: ty
May 17 21:27:53 <RST38h> javispedro: !
May 17 21:28:31 <lardman> javispedro: indeed congratulations :)
May 17 21:28:46 <pupnik> is that zombie eating borscht?
May 17 21:29:24 <lardman> pupnik: you know that's a sure sign of a zombie, have you not read the guide? ;)
May 17 21:30:30 <pupnik> i think it's something else made with paprikas
May 17 21:30:54 <RST38h> lardman: + http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5604/bender008.20/0_66075_4d7424e4_orig
May 17 21:31:16 <javispedro> ty lardman :)
May 17 21:32:15 <lardman> RST38h: no I want the link to #18!
May 17 21:32:28 <lardman> "18. Mmm what a girl in the red. "
May 17 21:32:44 <lardman> unfortunately the web seems to be going vvvveeeeeeerrrrrrrryyy slowly here
May 17 21:34:47 <DocScrutinizer51> hey javispedro \o/ - long time no see!
May 17 21:35:07 <javispedro> heya DocScrutinizer51
May 17 21:35:17 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, indeed. Long time no see.
May 17 21:35:27 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully productive things distracted you from this bs.
May 17 21:35:42 <lardman> javispedro: don't try blaming the exams, MohammadAG has already used that excuse ;)
May 17 21:36:17 <javispedro> exams? thesis!
May 17 21:36:24 <RST38h> qwerty12 used that excuse to quit!
May 17 21:36:37 <RST38h> before he used his second excuse that is.
May 17 21:36:51 <lardman> lol
May 17 21:37:09 <lardman> javispedro: ok thesis is a new one, we'll give you that one :D
May 17 21:37:21 <Macer> RST38h: which was?
May 17 21:37:34 <Macer> was that the maemo community sucked rant?
May 17 21:37:41 <lardman> Android has better hw?
May 17 21:37:48 <Macer> :) which was true i suppose
May 17 21:37:48 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, ah congraduations to your gradumalation.
May 17 21:38:18 <Macer> javispedro: do your thesis in abiword on your n900 with a bt keyboard
May 17 21:38:26 <Macer> it will give you a sense of satisfaction about buying it
May 17 21:38:48 <Macer> or should is say... FINALLY give you a sense of satisfaction haha
May 17 21:38:54 <DocScrutinizer51> hey Dr. javispedro
May 17 21:39:04 <javispedro> undergrad thesis =)
May 17 21:39:08 <lardman> Macer: lol, I wrote a 3rd year project on a Psion series 5. That was bloody painful
May 17 21:39:23 <RST38h> javispedro: that obviously has to be fixed
May 17 21:39:23 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer51: so no dr (yet) ;)
May 17 21:39:26 <Macer> lardman: i did my fair share of stuff like that on my n95
May 17 21:39:43 <RST38h> lardman: I have seen a guy who did his thesis in MS Word
May 17 21:39:46 <Macer> usiong this same keyboard as a matter of fact
May 17 21:39:51 <Macer> wow this thing is pretty old heh
May 17 21:39:52 <lardman> javispedro: DocScrutinizer and I are both Doctors, so perhaps we could do you an honorary one ;)
May 17 21:39:55 <javispedro> there's still a chance I get a cum laude for it, so it's been quite a bit of hard work
May 17 21:39:57 <Macer> but it works SO good in maemo now
May 17 21:40:01 <Macer> i can just molest it
May 17 21:40:09 <RST38h> lardman: He was completely bold and had to type it in 20-page chunks, because Word crashed on bigger documents
May 17 21:40:11 <mece> \o
May 17 21:40:18 <RST38h> s/bold/bald/
May 17 21:40:18 <infobot> RST38h meant: lardman: He was completely bald and had to type it in 20-page chunks, because Word crashed on bigger documents
May 17 21:40:36 <Macer> RST38h: hahaha
May 17 21:40:53 <Macer> would sure suck if it crashed after typing 19
May 17 21:40:57 <lardman> RST38h: Bloody M$ Word wasn't happy with my thesis, at the last minute it started arsing about with page breaks, section formatting, the whole lot. Craptastic
May 17 21:40:58 <RST38h> Entering mathematical formulas was particularly tricky
May 17 21:41:09 <Macer> i'm guessing he was saving it every 10 seconds
May 17 21:41:15 <RST38h> lardman: Real men use LaTeX
May 17 21:41:20 <Macer> HAHAH
May 17 21:41:22 <lardman> yeah yeah!
May 17 21:41:25 * javispedro used LaTeX.... and beamer...
May 17 21:41:34 <Macer> latex.. woooo!
May 17 21:41:38 <RST38h> lardman: [keeps them from overusing graphics too, given how painful it is to prepare graphics for latex]
May 17 21:41:53 <lardman> RST38h: yeah I've heard that about it :)
May 17 21:42:31 * Macer goes back to his west wing
May 17 21:42:36 <Macer> love this show
May 17 21:42:51 <mece> Wow, I love the Zombie house! Absolutely beautifyl!
May 17 21:42:53 * javispedro now has a few days of "nothing to do" until paperwork is done, so I'm pondering what project update first
May 17 21:43:04 <lardman> Macer: when you said that earlier I thought of Green Wing and was going to suggest Campus (which was shot on my campus)
May 17 21:43:15 <Macer> haha
May 17 21:43:15 <RST38h> Meanwhile: http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/17/unannounced-samsung-hercules-headed-to-t-mobile-bearing-godli/
May 17 21:43:29 <lardman> mece: got to wonder how long it would take to close the blast doors though in case of zombie attack....
May 17 21:43:32 <RST38h> javispedro: preenv? ;)
May 17 21:43:45 <javispedro> very probably, got a lot of patches to merge...
May 17 21:44:23 <javispedro> either way. what's new and cool?
May 17 21:44:37 <RST38h> Well...N9 (or N950) has passed the FCC
May 17 21:44:45 <RST38h> and some promo videos started showing up
May 17 21:45:12 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: btw, was quite unsatisfied with Portal2. Way too short. (I bet you bought it? ;) )
May 17 21:45:13 <RST38h> According to Eldar (sic), Nokia will start discussing selling its mobile division to MS in a week, expecting to finish the deal by the end of 2011
May 17 21:45:37 <lcuk> javispedro, is it playable?
May 17 21:45:40 <lardman> javispedro: what does one do in Portal?
May 17 21:45:41 * lcuk has not yet tried it
May 17 21:45:46 <lardman> I'm playing Crysis 2 atm
May 17 21:46:07 <lcuk> lardman, original portal was puzzle based on jumping through a pair of portal windows you could fire at different parts of the room
May 17 21:46:32 <lcuk> highly addictive, me and jake would play for hours
May 17 21:46:32 <lardman> so it's a cross between puzzle and FPS?
May 17 21:46:32 <mece> gaah! the N9/50 speculations are turning my hair grey
May 17 21:46:47 * lardman passes the Just For Men
May 17 21:46:57 <javispedro> lcuk: obviously, it is nice, a bit of an evolution from the first game, no big surprises... but sadly, just a bit longer. less than 8h total single-player game for me, and I'm quite slow.
May 17 21:46:58 <lcuk> lardman, FPS arena with brainwork to solve the puzzles
May 17 21:47:05 <RST38h> mece: FCC filing is no speculation
May 17 21:47:06 <lardman> ok
May 17 21:47:24 <javispedro> RST38h: saw fcc stuff, no fmtx =(
May 17 21:47:40 <lardman> RST38h: do you have a link for the FCC stuff?
May 17 21:47:46 <RST38h> javispedro: does not mean it is not there
May 17 21:47:59 <javispedro> but "it should" mean that
May 17 21:48:16 <RST38h> lardman: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=233837&fcc_id=%27LJPRM-680
May 17 21:48:28 <lardman> hmm, interesting: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Forbidden-LEGO-Models-Parents-Against/dp/1593271379/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1305668702&sr=8-5
May 17 21:48:30 <javispedro> in my brief contact with real life paperwork I've come to learn that one should use the word SHOULD more often..
May 17 21:48:31 <lardman> the title at least
May 17 21:48:39 <lardman> thanks RST38h
May 17 21:49:46 <RST38h> javispedro: may just be disabled
May 17 21:50:17 <RST38h> javispedro: the planned production volume is rumored to be in the 100000 range
May 17 21:50:46 <lardman> so it has n-band Wifi
May 17 21:50:54 <lardman> n-mode even
May 17 21:51:08 <javispedro> oh, I thought that 100000 was the MSRP =)
May 17 21:51:10 <mece> RST38h, where'd you get those numbers?
May 17 21:51:46 <RST38h> mece: no longer remember, but looked semi-credible(i.e. had a source attached)
May 17 21:52:53 <RST38h> The most intriguing question is not what it has, but how are we going to get one... Given all the havoc at Nokia, will they even sell those to normal people?
May 17 21:52:59 <mece> hehehe http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1008605&postcount=112
May 17 21:53:20 <javispedro> video?
May 17 21:53:29 <RST38h> mece: *yawn*
May 17 21:53:30 <mece> RST38h, that's the part that's giving me grey hairs.
May 17 21:53:52 <mece> javispedro, "btw. I had a phone call with Nokia some hours ago. They will start  investigation who leaked that video tomorrow. Someone is in serious  trouble..."
May 17 21:54:04 <javispedro> zehjotkah is really enjoying his position...
May 17 21:54:08 <mece> yep
May 17 21:54:11 <Sc0rpius> what video?!?!?
May 17 21:54:15 <lardman> RST38h: are we normal people?
May 17 21:54:17 <Sc0rpius> lemme see the video!
May 17 21:54:28 <pupnik>  i hope not
May 17 21:54:29 <mece> Sc0rpius, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-KfxrI1NXg
May 17 21:54:29 <javispedro> I met him at MWC, iirc he joined intel...
May 17 21:54:32 <Sc0rpius> thx
May 17 21:54:50 <pupnik> zekot has a job?
May 17 21:55:01 <mece> he said he's a blogger
May 17 21:55:11 <lardman> Battery BL-4D, how many mAh is that i wonder
May 17 21:55:21 <mece> 1.2Ah
May 17 21:55:28 <lardman> thanks
May 17 21:55:42 <javispedro> pupnik: his position was more of "community engager" or sth along the lines
May 17 21:55:45 <pupnik> it's gorgeous, i hope they really make em
May 17 21:55:58 <mece> pupnik, indeed.
May 17 21:56:05 <pupnik> i'll miss the clickey keys
May 17 21:56:10 <pupnik> spongy keys arenm't as fun
May 17 21:56:19 <RST38h> lardman: Yes we are, until stated otherwise
May 17 21:56:23 <mece> pupnik, I think those are clicky
May 17 21:56:45 <lardman> RST38h: :(
May 17 21:56:48 <pupnik> i'll bet you a beer they'll be spongy
May 17 21:56:51 <RST38h> lardman:At the moment,I have to assume that there is not going to be any developer program, so, yea, we are normal
May 17 21:57:14 <lardman> well we can all cross our fingers and toes
May 17 21:57:25 <javispedro> pfft
May 17 21:57:26 <mece> RST38h, actually as I understand it there are 2 different devices, one which is dev device.
May 17 21:57:33 <javispedro> they no longer have the budget to even ship the devices
May 17 21:57:44 <RST38h> pupnik: I think there were some disassembled photos, they do show clicky-like membranes
May 17 21:57:56 <pupnik> yaay
May 17 21:58:09 <lardman> javispedro: that is more worrying of course
May 17 21:58:30 * alterego sighs
May 17 21:58:34 <RST38h> javispedro:I will happily BUY the bloody device if they tell me where.
May 17 21:58:39 <alterego> People are getting very worked up about this N9 device.
May 17 21:58:54 <RST38h> alterego:There ain't any alternatives
May 17 21:59:00 <pupnik> if it has drivers for maemo then yaay
May 17 21:59:10 <lardman> RST38h: back of the production facility in Korea? ;)
May 17 21:59:15 <RST38h> alterego: Hence is the unhealthy interest
May 17 21:59:27 <mece> pupnik, leaky pics: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277330
May 17 21:59:33 <javispedro> assuming the device will even go into production!
May 17 21:59:39 <alterego> Yeah
May 17 21:59:49 <mece> pupnik, clicky membrane spotted.
May 17 22:00:03 <lardman> well that FCC filing is quite recent, no point in doing that if you're not going to produce it I'd have thought
May 17 22:00:04 <alterego> I think a lot of people make some guesses, then these stupid guesses snow ball into "fact" :/
May 17 22:00:08 <RST38h> alterego:I checked the Android devices. If it comes to worst, yes, I will go with Android, some very nice hw there
May 17 22:00:11 <pupnik> maybe the project is endangered and the leaker wants to generate interest
May 17 22:00:21 <alterego> I don't even think Nokia will be handing anything out next week
May 17 22:00:27 <RST38h> alterego: But the sw....meh
May 17 22:00:39 <alterego> I'd love to be prooved wrong, but I don't get that same feeling I had about Amsterdam.
May 17 22:00:46 <lardman> alterego: as long as they send stuff out too to those of us who couldn't make it !
May 17 22:00:51 <RST38h> alterego:It will be Intel's conference.
May 17 22:00:52 <alterego> Admittedly that was more of a sods law feeling, as I was heading to Iceland :)
May 17 22:01:01 <RST38h> alterego:So, no, no Amsterdam
May 17 22:01:24 <pupnik> what's the screensize on that n9 prototype
May 17 22:01:28 <RST38h> 4"
May 17 22:01:33 <alterego> People are guessing 4"
May 17 22:01:36 <javispedro> prolly the best part of the device..
May 17 22:01:44 <alterego> It's capacitive :P
May 17 22:01:47 <javispedro> argh
May 17 22:01:56 <alterego> Now what's the best part?
May 17 22:01:59 * alterego chuckles
May 17 22:02:01 <pupnik> i like being able to click with gloves
May 17 22:02:02 * RST38h goes to train himself on the E7 screen
May 17 22:02:04 <javispedro> thanks for ruining my good humour
May 17 22:02:07 <mece> alterego, no kidding. with microsoft coming charging like 600 ton turd, I'm not feeling the maemo love from Nokia...
May 17 22:02:43 <RST38h> javispedro: at least it will be multitouch
May 17 22:02:47 <pupnik> i see a career in malware in my future
May 17 22:02:54 <RST38h> javospedro: those damn game conrols will finally become workable
May 17 22:03:00 <mece> alterego, big screen, 4 row keyboard, slim, fast, linux :)
May 17 22:03:07 <lardman> pupnik: targetting Iranian centrifuges?
May 17 22:03:09 <javispedro> pupnik: go directly to jail. do not pass go. do not collect $200 ;)
May 17 22:03:16 <alterego> mece: I'd say that's a lot of love where it counts
May 17 22:03:32 <pupnik> javispedro: no, just badly written software for wp7 so people will go 'THIS SUCKS!'
May 17 22:03:35 <alterego> If the device is as refined as it looks in the adverts, I think it'll be a nice thing to see.
May 17 22:03:46 <mece> alterego, well if we and by we I mean I, can get our hands on the thing, then it's ok.
May 17 22:03:52 <lardman> it'll be nice to see no matter what
May 17 22:03:53 <javispedro> pupnik: have you been doing this "job" already? because I see people already saying wp7 sucks ;)
May 17 22:04:02 <lardman> lol
May 17 22:04:04 <mece> wp7 sucks!
May 17 22:04:06 <pupnik> :)
May 17 22:04:12 <mece> I think it's a fair assumption
May 17 22:04:18 <pupnik> i ar winning
May 17 22:04:20 <alterego> mece: I'd ignore tmo, in Nokias eyes a developer is anyone that wants to buy the device for development.
May 17 22:04:33 <mece> yay, that's me!
May 17 22:04:48 <alterego> mece: and I think people are getting confused about the few that Nokia tend to give out cheap to platform and application developers with the ones that are paid for full price by noirmnal consumers.
May 17 22:04:52 <alterego> They're not different devices.
May 17 22:05:05 <javispedro> alterego: you can hope the same crazy head who decided to send those forum nokia freebies will also be around this team
May 17 22:05:10 <alterego> And Elop and the other guy said explicitiy there will be a meego device later this year.
May 17 22:05:13 <mece> alterego, no, but people are claiming they are infact different in this case.
May 17 22:05:15 <alterego> To me "a" means one.
May 17 22:05:16 <RST38h> javispedro: WP7 does not need pupnik to suck.
May 17 22:05:29 <RST38h> Handles the job on its own, quite admirably
May 17 22:05:36 <javispedro> indeed.
May 17 22:05:43 <alterego> mece: those threads are so noisy someone whispers "dev device" and everyone suddenly thinks there are two
May 17 22:05:58 <alterego> Someone mentions "but there was a rumour 6 months ago that we wouldn't have a keyboard"
May 17 22:06:06 <mece> wait, does pupnik suck on his own, or were you referring to wp7?
May 17 22:06:17 <alterego> So now the _other_ fictional device doesn't have a keyboard.
May 17 22:06:17 <RST38h> alterego: In Nokia's eyes, a developer is anyone the manager responsible for developer relations deems a developer
May 17 22:06:35 <alterego> RST38h: good point, I never had an N900 DDP ...
May 17 22:06:35 <RST38h> alterego: This may vary from conference attendees to Forum Nokia members
May 17 22:06:40 <alterego> My karma was too low apparently :)
May 17 22:06:45 <RST38h> completely random
May 17 22:07:00 <alterego> I don't think Forum Nokia had anything to do with Maemo in the past.
May 17 22:07:00 <lardman> alterego: you need to lay off the fly swat
May 17 22:07:20 <alterego> Can't see that happening now either.
May 17 22:07:21 <RST38h> lardman: And get the RAID?
May 17 22:07:29 <alterego> Except maybe to drum up more interest in MeeGo
May 17 22:07:33 * javispedro naively kills a damn stupid fly
May 17 22:07:36 <lardman> well perhaps one gets more karma for a quick death...?
May 17 22:07:56 <RST38h> Anyway, it doesnot make sense to speculate. Let us wait and see.
May 17 22:07:57 <alterego> lardman: I don't understand what you mean about the flies :P
May 17 22:08:23 <alterego> Or is it a metaphor for this "shitty" situation? ;)
May 17 22:08:25 <mece> alterego, well you have plenty of karma now :)
May 17 22:08:39 <alterego> Really? I thought it was still like 180 or something
May 17 22:08:42 <lardman> alterego: you know reincarnation, karma and all that
May 17 22:08:45 <alterego> I swear it never changes.
May 17 22:08:48 <mece> alterego, tswindell?
May 17 22:08:52 <alterego> mece: yes
May 17 22:08:53 <mece> http://maemo.org/profile/view/tswindell/
May 17 22:08:56 <mece> 450
May 17 22:09:05 <alterego> pfft, that's f'all
May 17 22:09:15 <mece> alterego, 100 was needed last time...
May 17 22:09:24 <alterego> I think it was actually 300
May 17 22:09:31 <mece> I'm pretty sure it was 100
May 17 22:09:37 <alterego> Or 250, certainly more than  100
May 17 22:09:53 <mece> hm whatever. you are in the top 100 karma class at least.
May 17 22:09:59 <alterego> Wow, I've got 220 points from ITT thanks?!
May 17 22:10:10 <javispedro> karma is more worthless than ever though
May 17 22:10:10 <alterego> Nice.
May 17 22:10:16 <alterego> Indeed
May 17 22:10:23 <alterego> They wont make the karma mistake again
May 17 22:10:30 <alterego> Intel have a nice ninja programme
May 17 22:10:44 <SpeedEvil> 502. Almost meaningless.
May 17 22:10:51 <lardman> if you survive you get a device?
May 17 22:10:52 <alterego> I signed up for the intel app up developer thing on Sunday
May 17 22:11:11 <alterego> I hope they give out exopc's like they have at the others' ..
May 17 22:11:13 * alterego chuckles
May 17 22:11:21 <javispedro> exopcs?
May 17 22:11:28 <javispedro> I've only seen more lenovos
May 17 22:11:49 <alterego> They're basically the same as a wetab
May 17 22:11:58 <alterego> But normally come with WP7
May 17 22:12:05 <javispedro> *W7
May 17 22:12:20 <alterego> Intel buy them cheap, stick meego tablet on it and have been handing them out at App Up developer workshops
May 17 22:12:30 <alterego> Yeah, W7, sorry, freudian slip
May 17 22:14:43 <mece> lardman, LOL!
May 17 22:16:54 <javispedro> so the Mono guy now started his own Mono company? Maybe he wants to be bought out by Microsoft...
May 17 22:17:49 <DocScrutinizer51> ouch
May 17 22:17:49 * javispedro laughs briefly at the idea...
May 17 22:18:18 <pupnik> Say's Law:  production is the means whereby we empower ourselves to purchase other things
May 17 22:18:20 <mece> hehehe I like how daperl changed his avatar to a pic from the leaked video :D
May 17 22:19:05 <javispedro> heh
May 17 22:19:16 <javispedro> I bet that will all the leaked stuff registrations to meegoconf will now be filling _fast_
May 17 22:19:49 <pupnik> maybe
May 17 22:20:32 <alterego> Heh, there's a sign on the sf2011 site, "Oh, so _NOW_ you want to come to the conference ... "
May 17 22:20:56 <javispedro> that would be frigging hilarious
May 17 22:21:06 <pupnik> do you guys use hdparm -S on laptops?
May 17 22:21:18 <mece> javispedro, yep. actually there was a tweet about that: @MeeGoConference: Registrations are filling up fast. If you want to attend #MeeGoConf, register now before we are full!
May 17 22:21:26 <alterego> pupnik: you mean sleep?
May 17 22:21:28 <alterego> No,
May 17 22:21:29 <pupnik> ywa
May 17 22:21:33 <pupnik> yea
May 17 22:21:42 <alterego> Spin down pisses me off
May 17 22:21:44 <DocScrutinizer51> not anymore
May 17 22:21:49 <javispedro> pupnik: my laptop has one of the stupid western dig. hdds that tends to spin down after every 5 seconds of idleness
May 17 22:21:52 <mece> pupnik, damn, it's late. I need to hfparm -S on myself
May 17 22:21:59 <alterego> Especially considering how Ubuntu fucked it up for about 2 releases.
May 17 22:22:16 <javispedro> pupnik: so I use hdparm -B to disable it when I cannot stand the visible UI pauses while the disk spins up any more
May 17 22:22:19 <pupnik> i kind of like fan off, drive off
May 17 22:22:24 <alterego> My load cycle count probably did the equivalent of 10 years in a week.
May 17 22:22:24 <pupnik> hmm
May 17 22:22:34 <javispedro> ah, load cycle.
May 17 22:22:38 <javispedro> *s
May 17 22:22:56 <pupnik> makes the thinkpad feel like an arm device with no moving parts
May 17 22:23:03 <SpeedEvil> 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   151   151   000    Old_age   Always       -       148103
May 17 22:23:04 <SpeedEvil> hmm
May 17 22:23:10 <DocScrutinizer51> is killing HDD
May 17 22:23:18 <javispedro> funny story. After a brief email exchange with the WD hdd support guy about how their stupid 5 seconds idle timer was making the load cycle count go over the roof
May 17 22:23:23 <pupnik> how do i see the number of spinups
May 17 22:23:38 <javispedro> I basically decided to end by saying "Ok, I will do nothing about it. If the disk dies early, I'm going to shove it up your ass."
May 17 22:23:40 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: smartctl -a /dev/whatever
May 17 22:23:47 <javispedro> and he basically agreed...
May 17 22:24:07 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: Well - disk drives are getting smaller, and with less protrusions.
May 17 22:24:08 <alterego> javispedro: :)
May 17 22:24:21 <pupnik> 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   001   001   000
May 17 22:24:34 * javispedro is already preparing some petrolium jelly for when the inevitable happens...
May 17 22:24:40 <javispedro> I wouldn't want to be that guy...
May 17 22:24:44 <SpeedEvil> Then of course there are microSDs.
May 17 22:25:01 <alterego> pupnik: doesn't look like you've got smart enabled.
May 17 22:25:03 <lardman> SpeedEvil: is it a 2.5" or a 3.5" though, that's the real sticking point, so to speak
May 17 22:25:16 <alterego> pupnik: or your HDD is really dodgy :P
May 17 22:25:19 <SpeedEvil> I find it mind-boggling that you can swallow a terabyte of storage in one gulp.
May 17 22:25:44 <pupnik> llol lardman
May 17 22:26:03 <pupnik> how about a quantum 'bigfoot' drive
May 17 22:26:13 <lardman> ouch
May 17 22:26:15 <SpeedEvil> I have a couple of those somewhere.
May 17 22:26:24 <Kilroo> SpeedEvil: I would want some kind of a casing or sauce or something, or that could really hurt.
May 17 22:26:32 <SpeedEvil> Also a 60M double-height SCSI.
May 17 22:26:34 <lardman> sauce! lol
May 17 22:26:44 <lardman> chocolate perhaps?
May 17 22:26:47 <ShadowJK> it makes sense, 001 is one step away from failure
May 17 22:27:03 <SpeedEvil> Kilroo: I was meaning for example 30 32G microSDs.
May 17 22:27:13 <Kilroo> SpeedEvil: So was I.
May 17 22:27:43 <Kilroo> I have a 32G microSD. It has sharp corners.
May 17 22:27:52 <Kilroo> Oh!
May 17 22:28:13 <Kilroo> I need to go thank that thread where they posted the fixed drivers so the damn thing would work.
May 17 22:28:46 <mece> SpeedEvil, are your bigfoot drives still working? they were the crappiest drives ever. Lasted about a week in my computer at the time iirc.
May 17 22:29:02 <pupnik> almost bankrupted the company mece
May 17 22:29:11 <mece> pupnik, yep
May 17 22:29:15 <SpeedEvil> mece: Stopped working after I dropped the computer onto concrete.
May 17 22:30:04 <DocScrutinizer51> duh! shouldn't, really
May 17 22:30:16 <DocScrutinizer51> :-P
May 17 22:31:30 <Kilroo> I'm trying to decide which project to work on after dinner...installing debian on my new Archos101, or seeing if I can get it to tether to my n900 for internet and use my n900+Columbus for GPS at the same time
May 17 22:31:49 <Kilroo> When what I should be doing is cooking dinner first and worrying about that later.
May 17 22:31:51 * javispedro finishes answering tmo private messages... booooooooooring
May 17 22:32:01 <SpeedEvil> If you plug it in with USB tethering, it 'just works'.
May 17 22:32:57 <alterego> People actually use Columbus?
May 17 22:33:03 <lardman> bed time, nice chatting chaps, catch you on the morrow
May 17 22:33:06 <Kilroo> SpeedEvil: Well, using it for GPS over Bluetooth worked pretty easily once I figured out where Android expects you to tell it you have a bluetooth GPS for it to connect to.
May 17 22:33:08 <javispedro> cya lardman
May 17 22:33:11 <javispedro> alterego: you bet!
May 17 22:33:31 * alterego feels guilty he's neglected it for so long
May 17 22:33:43 <javispedro> (though /me prefers less flashy graphics)
May 17 22:33:49 <alterego> Heh
May 17 22:33:56 <SpeedEvil> I used it once or twice on the bus.
May 17 22:34:37 <alterego> People catually use the USB tethering in Columbus?!
May 17 22:34:42 <Kilroo> alterego: I googled how to use my n900 as a bluetooth GPS for another device, and Columbus came up via a post along the lines of "Awesome, a replacement for the minigpsd that I can't install."
May 17 22:34:56 <alterego> Hah
May 17 22:34:59 <Kilroo> I didn't have a usb cable with me so I did bluetooth instead of usb though.
May 17 22:35:13 <alterego> Yeah, those -devel packages are still broken
May 17 22:35:18 <alterego> -testing even ..
May 17 22:35:24 <mece> alterego, now that qtm12 is out you could pimp columbus with some maps :)
May 17 22:35:31 <alterego> I promise I'll make a release shorty after SF ;)
May 17 22:35:42 <Kilroo> And I have not yet gotten the "let me share my ipv6 beta connection" scripts for usb and bluetooth from google code
May 17 22:35:55 <alterego> mece: I had something slightly contemporary in the way of maps planned.
May 17 22:36:04 <Kilroo> I have the mobilehotspot clone one but I haven't gotten it working yet.
May 17 22:36:14 <mece> alterego, well takes about 5 lines of qml to show the map ;)
May 17 22:36:21 <alterego> mece: though using qtm for maps will probably be a part of it.
May 17 22:36:25 * mece loves qml
May 17 22:36:32 <javispedro> requiring connectivity would make this way less useful
May 17 22:36:48 <alterego> mece: this is what we're demoing at SF: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/meego/screenshots/handset/
May 17 22:36:55 <alterego> It's my QML based dialer application :)
May 17 22:37:05 <alterego> Ignore first and last screenshot ..
May 17 22:37:17 * javispedro goes directly to first screenshots
May 17 22:37:20 <Kilroo> I will admit, though, that for what I've done with it so far Columbus could just as well be a daemon I could toggle through the status menu or something.
May 17 22:37:49 * SpeedEvil ponders a 'Bounce' based dialer.
May 17 22:37:52 <mece> javispedro, columbus?
May 17 22:38:07 <javispedro> mece: yep, maps
May 17 22:38:19 <mece> javispedro, obviously it shouldn't be a requirement
May 17 22:38:28 <javispedro> it uses the ovimaps data?
May 17 22:38:46 <alterego> Kilroo: well, they are just plugins
May 17 22:38:50 <mece> javispedro, at least if you put "nokia" as the plugin
May 17 22:38:55 <javispedro> nice to know!
May 17 22:38:58 <alterego> Kilroo: I was planning on doing different use case types like that at some point.
May 17 22:40:24 <alterego> Kilroo: so yeah, basically desktop widgets and standalone service plugins.
May 17 22:40:28 <alterego> But I got distracted.
May 17 22:40:36 <Kilroo> alterego: Cool. For the time being, though, assuming I do get both interwebs and gps connected between the devices at the same time, yay I get to try Google Navigation on a 10 inch screen.
May 17 22:40:39 <javispedro> TMO has gone so downhill that I bet posts about android now add to a sizable amount.
May 17 22:41:03 <alterego> javispedro: I think the largest thread is that android one
May 17 22:41:06 <Kilroo> And I can definitely understand getting distracted. Kudos for getting distracted at a point where stuff actually works.
May 17 22:41:34 <alterego> Kilroo: well, after you actually manage to install it ;)
May 17 22:41:53 <javispedro> Kilroo: that's most open source software for you! problem appears, developers solves the problem, creates gigantic plans of future development for the little project, wanders off
May 17 22:42:06 * javispedro is starting to realize that he is repeating such cycle too...
May 17 22:42:13 <Kilroo> Now that I have an android tablet I feel considerably less motivated to see whether I'd brick my phone trying to make nitdroid use uboot...
May 17 22:42:13 <mece> javispedro, there are posts about android on tmo?
May 17 22:42:43 <javispedro> mece: there's a lot of NitDroid questions. 10% of the PMs I got were about android.
May 17 22:43:01 <javispedro> (can you port this to androidthis or help me doing X on nitdroidthat)
May 17 22:43:02 <Kilroo> alterego: Manage? I selected it in fapman and it installed...I've done that at least three times, the most recent being when I actually had something to use it for...never had any difficulties.
May 17 22:43:02 <alterego> javispedro: why are they sending you questions about android?
May 17 22:43:08 <mece> javispedro, I've so shut out everything android that I don't even notice that stuff
May 17 22:43:22 <javispedro> alterego: the question I always ask myself is: why they do send me PMs?
May 17 22:43:25 <alterego> Kilroo: oh, I think it was an issue when you upgraded from the last release.
May 17 22:43:33 <alterego> javispedro: I get hardly any.
May 17 22:43:42 <alterego> The occasional one about "How did you get Columbus to do this"
May 17 22:43:48 <javispedro> alterego: I am way too friendly on other boards...
May 17 22:43:54 <alterego> "Do you want to work for me?"
May 17 22:44:09 <alterego> "Can I have your babies"
May 17 22:44:13 <alterego> "Where did you go?!"
May 17 22:44:24 <pupnik> you released emulators
May 17 22:44:25 <javispedro> I know that music indeed.
May 17 22:44:46 <alterego> "Why don't you answer my calls anymore?!"
May 17 22:44:55 <alterego> "I'm standing outside your window .... "
May 17 22:46:06 <javispedro> (if anyone reads the logs, and wonders if I'm talking about his PM: if you're reading the IRC logs, you are very probably not the kind of person I'm complaining about)
May 17 22:47:13 <mece> oh man, speaking of android, did you see the N8 vs Atrix video on youtube?
May 17 22:47:36 <Kilroo> I am now imagining someone just sitting and reading through IRC logs for hours
May 17 22:47:43 <mece> LOL
May 17 22:47:51 <alterego> Heh
May 17 22:47:55 <Kilroo> It was hard to imagine until I realized I could very easily end up doing so under certain circumstances
May 17 22:48:16 <javispedro> Kilroo: "tvtropes^W#maemo irc logs will ruin your life"
May 17 22:49:43 <javispedro> mece: just saw the video. the nvidia tegra sucks as expected =)
May 17 22:49:55 <pupnik> explain javispedro ?
May 17 22:49:58 <mece> javispedro, yeah, that is just embarassing.
May 17 22:50:10 <mece> pupnik, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6hienXEd0Y
May 17 22:50:27 <mece> pupnik, we're talking 2x1000Mhz vs 680Mhz processors here :D:D:D
May 17 22:50:46 <javispedro> pupnik: there was a lot of complaining here about how embarrasingly slow the tegra1 was when compared to virtually any other arm core
May 17 22:51:09 <mece> javispedro, you think it's just the processor?
May 17 22:51:11 <pupnik> n8 doesnt use tegra1
May 17 22:51:20 <javispedro> pupnik: watch the video
May 17 22:51:35 <pupnik> kk
May 17 22:51:58 <javispedro> (the atrix iirc uses tegra2)
May 17 22:52:15 <mece> I don't really care about symbian, other than the fact they use Qt, so I can make stuff for them, but that video just feels like victory :D
May 17 22:52:24 * mece is not a fan of android
May 17 22:53:08 * Kilroo is not a fan of android or iOS either, but is something of a fan of Words with Friends, particularly since none of his friends seem interested in wabble.org
May 17 22:53:11 <alterego> It's thmb and doesn't have hardfp
May 17 22:53:11 <ds3> except the tegra2 is crippled
May 17 22:53:15 <alterego> ~thumb
May 17 22:53:15 <infobot> Configurable image directory thumbnail viewer. URL: http://www.datrix.co.za/thumb/
May 17 22:54:10 <pupnik> hey nice video ty
May 17 22:54:26 <mece> dammit infobot! That url goes nowhere!
May 17 22:56:55 * javispedro ponders going to bed early..
May 17 22:57:04 <javispedro> or playing some portal2...
May 17 22:58:05 <pupnik> see the second keynes vs hayek video?
May 17 22:58:12 <pupnik> btw nice big screen on the motorola
May 17 23:01:48 <pupnik> the fight continues
May 17 23:04:55 <javispedro> well, gnite folks. a pleasure to see the lights are still running here ... ;)
May 17 23:07:41 <pupnik> cua
May 17 23:16:13 <mece> gah what the hell am I still doing here! Damn all these rumors, keeping me up late!
May 17 23:18:24 <ShadowJK> N8x0 "has" hardfp :)
May 17 23:18:43 <ShadowJK> it's an ABI thing more than a hw thing
May 17 23:35:07 <alterego> ShadowJK: it's a hardware thing with the tegra
May 17 23:35:26 <alterego> The tegra core can't do hardfp
May 17 23:39:47 <GAN900> Tegra sux
May 17 23:44:17 <pupnik> why was the motorola so slow in picture zooming
May 17 23:46:01 <alterego> Poor coding, poor floating point
May 17 23:46:01 <alterego> Could be a number of things
May 17 23:46:10 <DocScrutinizer> http://de.eye.fi/products/mobilex2 nice SD card
May 17 23:51:45 <SpeedEvil> Those have been around for ages.
May 17 23:52:11 <SpeedEvil> There are IIRC cracks to make them work 'properly'
May 17 23:52:20 <SpeedEvil> without the eye-fi server in the middle.
May 17 23:55:01 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, a SitM
May 17 23:55:30 <DocScrutinizer> annoying shit
May 18 00:06:45 <GeneralAntilles> Engadget
May 18 00:06:56 <GeneralAntilles> What's with everybody screaming for WP7 shit on all of the Nokia/MeeGo articles?
May 18 00:07:21 <gabrielhidasy> because WP7 has killed maemo
May 18 00:07:39 <alterego> meego killed maemo
May 18 00:07:44 <alterego> Well suffocated it
May 18 00:07:49 <GeneralAntilles> Nah, Nokia board and Canada killed Maemo.
May 18 00:07:53 <gabrielhidasy> both of then
May 18 00:08:06 <alterego> WP7 is killing Nokia's FOSS envolvement.
May 18 00:08:31 <gabrielhidasy> nokia was my favourite company, however
May 18 00:09:01 <gabrielhidasy> dealing with microsoft and with the devil is not so diferent
May 18 00:10:49 <pupnik> baseball bat to kneecap
May 18 00:10:58 <pupnik> lol
May 18 00:11:11 <SpeedEvil> Maemo got killed way before microsoft.
May 18 00:11:30 <SpeedEvil> Intel killed Maemo.
May 18 00:11:36 <SpeedEvil> And nokia open-source.
May 18 00:13:06 <gabrielhidasy> well, this is the maemo channel and it is not death, only stunned
May 18 00:15:04 <GeneralAntilles> and slowly suffocating in its own bodily fluids.
May 18 00:17:01 <pupnik> still best phone OS :)
May 18 00:22:37 <Serpher> Can anybody awnser a few questions I can't find out on my own about service in Toronto with the Nokia N900?
May 18 00:24:02 <chx> Unlikely. Call Wind.
May 18 00:24:49 <Serpher> Bell has it I know but Bell is...Bell. Wind wouldn't work for me cause I'm too far from Toronto to get reliable service so I'm told.
May 18 00:25:40 <chx> Bell?
May 18 00:25:55 <chx> Bell uses Band V, N900 uses Band IV
May 18 00:26:03 <chx> you mixed something up.
May 18 00:26:30 <chx> Wind or Mobilicity is your only options.
May 18 00:28:56 <Serpher> The Bell store said they were getting some in and it supported 3G and everything.
May 18 00:31:32 <chx> Then go to that Bell store and ask them to browse on the N900...
May 18 00:31:56 <ShadowJK> they could browse on 2g
May 18 00:31:59 <Serpher> They were out, were getting more on Friday but I guess I could check it out then.
May 18 00:32:03 <chx> ShadowJK: good luck
May 18 00:32:08 <chx> ShadowJK: Bell does not have a GSM network
May 18 00:32:21 <chx> ShadowJK: they have an ancient CDMA and a modern Band V WCDMA
May 18 00:32:35 <chx> ShadowJK: The phone won't even be able to authenticate to the network.
May 18 00:32:55 <chx> Serpher: heck, you know what, make a call :D
May 18 00:33:02 <chx> Serpher: that's not the N900
May 18 00:33:09 <chx> Serpher: isit o the Bell website?
May 18 00:33:11 <chx> Serpher: where?
May 18 00:33:43 <chx> Serpher: it's well hidden  http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=site%3Abell.ca++n900&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq= Father Google can't find it either.
May 18 00:34:03 <Serpher> A physical store they have.
May 18 00:34:44 <chx> You seriously believe this?
May 18 00:34:53 <chx> they have misunderstood what you asked, that's it.
May 18 00:35:30 <wazd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-KfxrI1NXg
May 18 00:35:35 <wazd> whawhawha?!
May 18 00:35:41 <Serpher> I asked like a bunch of times "The Nokia N900 running Maemo?" "Yeah, we just starting selling it a few months ago, really popular"
May 18 00:36:27 <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
May 18 00:36:32 <SpeedEvil> Customer services lie.
May 18 00:36:42 <SpeedEvil> First rule of fight club.
May 18 00:36:42 <chx> Serpher: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Mobility
May 18 00:36:52 <chx> Serpher: HSPA+ 850 and 1900 (Launched November 4, 2009)
May 18 00:37:00 <chx> Serpher: i do not even know about that 1900
May 18 00:37:24 <Serpher> I'm pretty clueless about cellphone technology so this is all greek to me xD If you want to relate it to any normal networking protocols that will work.
May 18 00:37:44 <chx> Serpher: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N900  and here iit says UMTS 900/1700/2100
May 18 00:37:53 <chx> Serpher: and ... that's the end of it for you.
May 18 00:38:05 <Serpher> Mobilicity will support me though?
May 18 00:38:10 <chx> yes
May 18 00:38:13 <chx> they will
May 18 00:38:30 <chx> Mobilicity throttles the data so be careful
May 18 00:38:41 <chx> check howardforums on that
May 18 00:39:11 <chx> Wind reserves the rght to throttle after the first 5gb and they also block a number of ports
May 18 00:39:31 <chx> but, moiblicity makes sure you wont be able to watch streaming vieo.
May 18 00:39:47 <chx> (youtube normal works but higher bandwidth? no way)
May 18 00:39:56 <Macer> that sucks
May 18 00:40:16 <chx> Welcome to Canada, the land of mobile service sucks
May 18 00:40:31 <chx> at least wind and mobilicy have sane prices for the data
May 18 00:40:33 <Serpher> Mobilicity has a $10 unlimited data plan @_@?
May 18 00:40:33 <Macer> :)
May 18 00:41:00 <Macer> bell has 50% of the market share at 6M
May 18 00:41:01 <chx> https://www.orderrogers.ca/rocket/data-plans
May 18 00:41:02 <Macer> ?
May 18 00:41:09 <chx> look at those prices.
May 18 00:41:19 <Macer> not a big canadian demand huh?
May 18 00:41:36 <Serpher> We're just pushovers and too complacant
May 18 00:41:43 <Serpher> We need to complain more and stop being panises
May 18 00:41:47 <chx> right
May 18 00:41:47 <Serpher> pansies*
May 18 00:42:03 <Serpher> Jesus, those prices are high =X
May 18 00:42:16 <Macer> dont most cap at 5GB?
May 18 00:43:03 <chx> Macer: not in general
May 18 00:43:16 <chx> Macer: with 5c per mb Rogers will be SO happy if you consume 5gb.
May 18 00:43:18 <pupnik> The Drake vs the Hydra - Mayer uncovers the story behind the illegal wiretapping  http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/23/110523fa_fact_mayer?currentPage=1
May 18 00:45:02 <Macer> 5c???
May 18 00:45:04 <Macer> omg
May 18 00:46:59 <chx> well some cable companies wanted $2 per gigabyte.....
May 18 00:47:04 <chx> this is Canada, my friend.
May 18 01:03:53 <DocScrutinizer> 2$/GB? sounds just sane
May 18 01:05:28 <DocScrutinizer> here we can't get uncapped data, all carriers providers limit at 5GB (/month) the latest. Those dataplans are usually ~20€. You can get 1GB for 10EUR
May 18 01:05:42 * GeneralAntilles yawns.
May 18 01:05:48 <GeneralAntilles> Is it Saturday yet. . . .
May 18 01:05:55 * DocScrutinizer passes coffee to GeneralAntilles
May 18 01:06:12 <pupnik>  is there a plugin ffox that can read pages
May 18 01:06:12 <SpeedEvil> I'm especially amused that one of the UK providers has chosen to offer an actually unlimited service.
May 18 01:06:22 <SpeedEvil> They still sell an 'unlimited' - limited service
May 18 01:06:33 <SpeedEvil> The real unlimited one is called 'all you can eat'.
May 18 01:07:41 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, I just read "cable", missed that. WTF?!!?!?!!
May 18 01:08:28 <DocScrutinizer> so our German 3G is as expensive as as Canadian DSL?? o.O
May 18 01:09:04 <DocScrutinizer> HELL
May 18 01:10:19 <chx> nah they shot that one down
May 18 01:10:46 <chx> there was http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/1623145~cea3aea2fb8c9d31f7ec4f246faaac34/4494_57 this campaign
May 18 01:19:19 <dangergrrl> well, tmobile's "unlimited" service bites after you hit your quota for the month on the first day
May 18 01:19:45 <dangergrrl> it still kinda works but pandora won't even stream
May 18 01:56:18 <SpeedEvil> Somewhat off-topic. Does anyone happen to have an xrandr commandline setup for rotating the screen so it is rotated 60 degrees right?
May 18 01:57:39 <pupnik> it can do that?
May 18 01:57:44 <SpeedEvil> yes.
May 18 01:58:16 <SpeedEvil> hmm - I must have been tireder than I thought last time I looked at xrandr manpage. It looks comprehensible this time.
May 18 02:00:23 <pupnik> how about a manpage viewer that puts most common examples at top
May 18 02:00:44 <SpeedEvil> To be fair, that's not really a common request.
May 18 02:01:04 <pupnik> yepa
May 18 02:01:10 <SpeedEvil> A manpage viewer that puts the topic you want at the top would be truly awesome.
May 18 02:01:21 <pupnik> i tilt the laptop
May 18 02:01:32 <pupnik> heh
May 18 02:01:32 <SpeedEvil> I want to comfortably read the screen while lying flat.
May 18 02:01:47 <pupnik> 90 degrees too much?
May 18 02:01:51 <SpeedEvil> However - it's a desktop screen, and tilting it may make it fall over.
May 18 02:01:52 <SpeedEvil> yeah
May 18 02:01:56 <pupnik> oh
May 18 02:02:37 <SpeedEvil> I find it more comfortable not to have my head quite horizontal.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 18 02:59:57 2011