**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 29 02:59:58 2011
May 29 03:00:11 <ghostnik11> dangergrrl: yeah on home internet i pull 5gb in a day also on verizon fios but thats different
May 29 03:00:22 <dangergrrl> and we didn't pay cable this month so been using my phone for pc internet
May 29 03:00:57 <ShadowJK> My 50kbps unit can stream BBC World Service fine.
May 29 03:01:25 <ShadowJK> VoIP is like <20kbps :-)
May 29 03:01:33 <SpeedEvil> I keep meaning to try to get a rtmp transcoder working properly.
May 29 03:02:00 <dangergrrl> i don't know what they are doing but i get 7.5kbytes/s on most file transfers
May 29 03:02:09 <dangergrrl> and nothing streaming works at all
May 29 03:02:18 <ShadowJK> Of course, if operators want to be assholes they'll throttle to 0 kbps for 10 seconds and 40 for 10 seconds, and call it 20
May 29 03:02:43 <dangergrrl> that may be how they are doing it
May 29 03:02:51 <ShadowJK> (and it'll be slightly less then 20 for a download)
May 29 03:02:53 <SpeedEvil> Deep packet inspection.
May 29 03:02:58 <ghostnik11> shadowjk: when i check my tmobile data though, its kind of weird b/c if i talk to someone while i am using sip on carrier network, per min its like a mb. so if i talk 19 mins it shows up as 19 mb
May 29 03:03:00 <SpeedEvil> And per-site blocking.
May 29 03:03:04 <ShadowJK> Demand information, demand details.
May 29 03:03:14 <dangergrrl> pandora i can connect to
May 29 03:03:14 <ShadowJK> I dunno
May 29 03:03:27 <dangergrrl> but i get regular pauses in the audio
May 29 03:03:36 <SpeedEvil> My ISP explicitly explains what they prioritise, and how.
May 29 03:03:44 <dangergrrl> enough to where it is not enjoyable
May 29 03:03:54 <ShadowJK> you americans are like "I want a cellphone" <operator> "Ok, bend over, and I'll assrape you" - "Please be gentle" - "That'll be $150 extra for lube"
May 29 03:04:26 <SpeedEvil> rtmp transcorder for flash - so I can watch a 1M flash stream as a 100k stream.
May 29 03:04:50 <ShadowJK> I guess it's not easy when everyone is an assrapist
May 29 03:04:51 <dangergrrl> ShadowJK: there are only two gsm providers in the usa, probably only one soon
May 29 03:04:54 <ghostnik11> i need to start like a sip revolution and tell people in usa that we should boycott carriers and just use sip and other voip for phone communcations
May 29 03:05:44 <dangergrrl> all other cell providers are CDMA
May 29 03:06:36 <ghostnik11> dangergrrl: i just want to know if that merger goes through, how much fcc was bribed to make merger happen, b/c it seems like every tmobile customer is against this merger
May 29 03:07:11 <dangergrrl> ghostnik11: every cell phone customer should be against it no matter who they use
May 29 03:08:35 <dangergrrl> there is supposed to be a new iphone soon that does both GSM and CDMA so that verizon customers can have world portable iphones
May 29 03:08:41 <DocScrutinizer51> well, USA opted for CDMA and GSM was a late start and probably never performed up to breakeven ROI wise
May 29 03:09:25 <dangergrrl> which the fcc may use as justification to allow the merger
May 29 03:09:56 <DocScrutinizer51> now they're simply running out of available band while going for 3G, 4G whatnot
May 29 03:10:11 <ghostnik11> thats the thing i went from CDMA (verizon) to GSM (tmobile) and i won't go back, the fact that i can just take a sim and put into anyone and it will work, is fantastic
May 29 03:10:18 <dangergrrl> thatś the biggest reason against it; only gsm phones are world portable and this merger would make att the only gsm provider
May 29 03:11:20 <ghostnik11> meant to say any phone
May 29 03:11:56 <dangergrrl> true enough if my n900 broke i could go get a tracphone prepay at walmart and put my sim in it while the n900 was getting repaired
May 29 03:12:30 <dangergrrl> dunno who tracphone resells but it must be att or tmobile
May 29 03:14:20 <dangergrrl> my sister gets a good deal on unlimited text and data from virgin mobile and even has an android phone; in a year on what she saves over sprint (same network even) the android phones will be paid for
May 29 03:14:39 <dangergrrl> i wanted an n900
May 29 03:14:57 <dangergrrl> if i didn't want an n900 i would still want a gsm device
May 29 03:15:57 <dangergrrl> hmm, is a $30 feature phone likely to be sim locked?
May 29 03:16:22 <ghostnik11> i wish i had a n900, but learned about it late, i just wanted it to be offered in the states but didn't have money to buy it brand new off nokia site, and now i am waiting for the next n900 from nokia that will contain meego
May 29 03:16:29 <DocScrutinizer51> probably
May 29 03:16:44 <dangergrrl> oh i bought mine on amazon
May 29 03:16:50 <dangergrrl> $350 last december
May 29 03:17:04 <dangergrrl> last time i checked they want $550 again
May 29 03:17:59 <DocScrutinizer51> that's kinda insane
May 29 03:18:01 <dangergrrl> if you watch the price on amazon they go as low as $300
May 29 03:18:30 <ghostnik11> well i will wait, for this meego phone that i hope its coming to tmobile in usa and hopefully tmobile won't be bought by at&t so i will get to enjoy a phone that can last for the next 5 to 7 years with out having to say i need an upgrade or new phone
May 29 03:18:45 <dangergrrl> $350 for a handheld computer than i can use as a phone?
May 29 03:19:39 <DocScrutinizer51> dangergrrl: going up
May 29 03:19:41 <dangergrrl> thatś not insane i would want it if it did not have gsm or cdma at all
May 29 03:20:08 <ghostnik11> the thing about n900 is that it transcends time, i feel, its the only phone i know that can run 3 different OS and you can do anything with it. Apple has a commercial that says they have an app for everything for there iphone brand but an n900 transcends time which iphone can't b/c people always have to get latest one
May 29 03:20:11 <dangergrrl> i wouldn't buy it at 550, i would wait :)
May 29 03:21:25 <dangergrrl> ghostnik11: what i would do if i were you is wait for the manual for the new device to be released june 26th or so
May 29 03:21:25 <DocScrutinizer51> 4 OS
May 29 03:21:35 <DocScrutinizer51> 5 actually
May 29 03:21:37 <dangergrrl> then you will maybe know what itś specs are
May 29 03:22:02 <dangergrrl> DocScrutinizer51: i am wanting to port OSKIT to n900 also
May 29 03:22:38 <ghostnik11> dangergrrl: i will, i am just hoping even though its probably by a miracle that it would contain 4g bands
May 29 03:22:43 <dangergrrl> the n900 should go down in price before itś out of stock in theory
May 29 03:22:58 <DocScrutinizer51> ghostnik11: it won't
May 29 03:23:04 <dangergrrl> it is 3.5 like the n900
May 29 03:23:10 <dangergrrl> that is released already
May 29 03:23:15 <dangergrrl> in the fcc report
May 29 03:23:43 <dangergrrl> i also do not think it has an fm transmitter
May 29 03:23:44 <DocScrutinizer51> I mentioned that like 2h ago
May 29 03:23:55 <dangergrrl> because the fcc report did not mention it
May 29 03:24:05 <ghostnik11> dangergrrl: well if its 3.5 then thats perfect b/c my carrier only has up to 3.5 that they market as 4g
May 29 03:24:54 <dangergrrl> DocScrutinizer51: was it hspda?  you know these acronyms better than i do
May 29 03:25:01 <DocScrutinizer51> then why not get a N900?
May 29 03:25:12 <DocScrutinizer51> HSPA
May 29 03:25:14 <psycho_oreos> because they are cheapskates
May 29 03:25:29 <dangergrrl> i love the fm transmitter
May 29 03:25:36 <DocScrutinizer51> d own   and  u p
May 29 03:26:26 <DocScrutinizer51> high speed (downlink / uplink) packet access
May 29 03:26:51 <ghostnik11> damn no fm transmitter but why wouldn't they include it as the n900 has it
May 29 03:27:23 <dangergrrl> i think i have 160 minutes more video to watch before i can archive some more video and free some disk space
May 29 03:27:27 <DocScrutinizer51> too much trouble
May 29 03:27:54 <DocScrutinizer51> with cert
May 29 03:28:24 <ghostnik11> oh for tmobile its hspa + = 4g network here in usa
May 29 03:29:03 <DocScrutinizer51> hspa+ is faster hspa
May 29 03:29:10 <dangergrrl> DocScrutinizer51: if it had fm it would have been listed in that fcc test wouldn't it?
May 29 03:29:18 <DocScrutinizer51> it's usually useless though
May 29 03:29:33 <DocScrutinizer51> dangergrrl: probably
May 29 03:29:47 <dangergrrl> most of that report was greek to me
May 29 03:30:05 <SpeedEvil> Umm.
May 29 03:30:13 <dangergrrl> i have no idea if rf energy is harmful to my brain or if it is how much is enough to worry about
May 29 03:30:18 <SpeedEvil> Isn't it exempted under 'low power' rules?
May 29 03:30:33 <psycho_oreos> and here comes that same old lame debate about rf energy being harmful
May 29 03:30:35 <SpeedEvil> Does the n900 test report mention fmtx I guess
May 29 03:30:49 <DocScrutinizer51> SpeedEvil: also possible
May 29 03:30:54 * SpeedEvil places psycho_oreos in his microwave oven, and hits defrost.
May 29 03:30:56 <dangergrrl> SpeedEvil: they would have to turn it on in the body adsorbtion tests i am thinking
May 29 03:31:01 <psycho_oreos> if you're that worried about rf energy is harmful, don't buy a phone, simple
May 29 03:31:11 <DocScrutinizer51> you could check back with N900 FCC
May 29 03:31:20 * psycho_oreos sends SpeedEvil to hell for a quick tour of heated earth :þ
May 29 03:31:22 <ghostnik11> rf energy might be harmful but i think we should do more test on if it actually is or isn't
May 29 03:31:52 <SpeedEvil> dangergrrl: The power emitted by the FM transmitter is about 20 million times weaker than the cellphone.
May 29 03:31:59 <dangergrrl> they were measuring the maximum energy it could transmit into a tissue like substance shaped like a human head
May 29 03:32:31 <SpeedEvil> Also - the coupling of that frequency into the human body is worse than at GSM freqs.
May 29 03:32:57 <psycho_oreos> everyday we're exposed to rf energy of some sort, yet you're feeblishly worrying what a cell phone could do to your head.. good lord. There's plenty of other phones out there whom may not have placed such a burden on your head
May 29 03:33:25 <dangergrrl> iḿ not worried
May 29 03:33:40 <dangergrrl> that was the information that is released on the new device
May 29 03:33:43 <psycho_oreos> I wonder how good of a troll you'll be in ##iphone or #android talking the same old bullshit with rf energy
May 29 03:33:48 <ghostnik11> hey we don't know the implications right away some of these things take years to develop into a disease, look at cigarettes and lung cancer at first no one knew the dangers
May 29 03:33:55 <dangergrrl> i was scanning it for information
May 29 03:34:19 <dangergrrl> i was just saying i had no way to use most if the information that was available
May 29 03:34:40 <DocScrutinizer51> psycho_oreos: please
May 29 03:34:51 <dangergrrl> all that had been relesased was an fcc test report
May 29 03:35:16 <psycho_oreos> the bottom line is, if you're here to buy a phone for functionality, you probably wouldn't give a damn about rf being in the way
May 29 03:35:20 * psycho_oreos sighs
May 29 03:35:28 <dangergrrl> it lists all the bands that the device has radio transmitters on
May 29 03:35:33 <DocScrutinizer51> dangergrrl: it's the SAR value, a mandatory test for all cellphones nowadays
May 29 03:35:43 <dangergrrl> right
May 29 03:36:34 <dangergrrl> i learned for example that is has 802.11n but not dual band
May 29 03:36:49 <DocScrutinizer51> it allows to compare different phone types
May 29 03:37:06 <ghostnik11> docscrutinizer51: the SAR rating on my phone htc magic/sapphire 32B is on high end and the phone does heat up alot when under heavy use and some times my hands might hurt me for a little after i am done using it after heavy usages
May 29 03:37:17 <dangergrrl> DocScrutinizer51: the info i was looking for was of the sort i just mentioned
May 29 03:37:48 <dangergrrl> but i scanned through all the diagrams of rf penetrating a model head to see if it said anything else interesting
May 29 03:37:58 <DocScrutinizer51> dangergrrl: I know
May 29 03:38:14 <dangergrrl> that part was boring
May 29 03:38:30 <DocScrutinizer51> hehe
May 29 03:38:56 <dangergrrl> my original statement was that i do not even know that it is a fact that rf energy is harmful at all
May 29 03:39:12 <dangergrrl> some people seem very concerned about VLF
May 29 03:39:42 <dangergrrl> i have not studied their claims
May 29 03:40:05 <dangergrrl> so i do not know if it is harmful to live under high tension power lines for example
May 29 03:40:35 <DocScrutinizer51> indeed, the farmers in northern germany, when their cows fall down dead when the 5Hz submarine communication transmitter fires
May 29 03:41:28 <DocScrutinizer51> (some xx MW)
May 29 03:41:32 <dangergrrl> i am not saying it is not real
May 29 03:41:45 <dangergrrl> but do you know that it is real?
May 29 03:41:46 <ghostnik11> docscrutinizer51: is there an article on web i can read about that info you just posted
May 29 03:42:03 <DocScrutinizer51> dead cows?
May 29 03:42:05 <dangergrrl> i said i have not reviewed factual evidence
May 29 03:42:06 <ghostnik11> yes
May 29 03:42:20 <DocScrutinizer51> dunno, google is your friend
May 29 03:42:28 <ghostnik11> thanks
May 29 03:42:38 <dangergrrl> dead cows that can be directly correlated to submarine VLF transmissions
May 29 03:43:17 <dangergrrl> i mean i have heard bits and pieces about a thing called HAARP
May 29 03:43:34 <dangergrrl> but the people who talk about it are usually of questionable sanity
May 29 03:43:41 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm, rings a bell
May 29 03:43:55 <ghostnik11> HAARP read about haarp and weather manipulation and nikolas tesla
May 29 03:44:19 <dangergrrl> i think itś a standing wave weapon of some sort in theory
May 29 03:45:31 <dangergrrl> i don't know about a lot of things but i try to keep an open mind
May 29 03:45:51 <dangergrrl> i am pretty sure there is no secret reptillian world shadow government
May 29 03:45:57 <DocScrutinizer51> well, the submarine thing is simple transmitter for reaching submarines on sea. You need insanely low freq and high energy. The antenna is a burried cable loop
May 29 03:46:08 <ghostnik11> dangergrrl: don't know if its true but in life i believe anything is possible, i mean in school in primary school at least we never learned about there being 100 tornadoes all at once and the past couple months in the states we have been getting 100 tornadoes at once which to me is crazy weather
May 29 03:46:24 <dangergrrl> if you leave the reptillians out of it i have concerns there may be some truth to it
May 29 03:46:34 <ghostnik11> lol
May 29 03:47:37 <dangergrrl> art bell and alex jones would have you believe all recent us presidents have been reptiles wearing latex human suits
May 29 03:47:51 <dangergrrl> oh and charlie sheen
May 29 03:48:10 <dangergrrl> but he admitted he is on crack
May 29 03:48:16 <ghostnik11> alex jones is the man but not everything he says is true, you have to take it as a grain of salt
May 29 03:48:35 <dangergrrl> i think some of it is true
May 29 03:48:40 <dangergrrl> the riddle is how much
May 29 03:48:45 <ghostnik11> good point
May 29 03:49:05 <dangergrrl> if you want to hide the truth you feed it to a nutjob noone will believe
May 29 03:49:16 <DocScrutinizer51> he part about crack might be true
May 29 03:49:42 <dangergrrl> i think charlie sheen really is on crack
May 29 03:50:05 <dangergrrl> i believe there really was nanothermite residue at "gorund zero"
May 29 03:50:10 <ghostnik11> dangergrrl most likely cocaine which is the drug of choice for rich celebs and people on wall street
May 29 03:50:32 <dangergrrl> i believe osama bin laden knew too much to risk taking him alive
May 29 03:50:43 <ghostnik11> lol
May 29 03:50:59 <dangergrrl> i think he had something to do with 9/11
May 29 03:51:30 <dangergrrl> but someone in the government had to have been involved
May 29 03:51:49 <ghostnik11> what did he know? i mean they were looking for him for a long time, i think there was no way osama was going to be trial by jury, what would he say?
May 29 03:51:58 <dangergrrl> obl was unarmed orders were to kill not capture
May 29 03:52:34 <dangergrrl> we could have taken him to nuremburg
May 29 03:52:43 <dangergrrl> but bush and obama should go too
May 29 03:52:46 <dangergrrl> and blair
May 29 03:52:50 <ghostnik11> that is strange to me though, why was he unarmed i mean didn't he know the usa was coming for him, with full force
May 29 03:53:22 <dangergrrl> after 10 years?
May 29 03:53:39 <dangergrrl> if you go underground
May 29 03:53:50 <dangergrrl> and they do not find you after 10 years
May 29 03:53:55 <dangergrrl> you would relax some
May 29 03:54:20 <ghostnik11> 10 years man, i wanted to know how the hell he was hiding so well, we have satellites that can track every move and this man can stay hidden for 10 years?
May 29 03:54:31 <dangergrrl> abby hoffmanś book on the time he spent underground is amazing
May 29 03:54:58 <dangergrrl> the fbi 10 most wanted list is propaganda
May 29 03:55:08 <dangergrrl> if you are hiding and appear on it
May 29 03:55:15 <dangergrrl> it means they think they have you
May 29 03:56:32 <ghostnik11> i figured there was no way anyone can hide from usa government, its the usa government they will hunt anyone down and find them look at wesley snipes who didn't pay taxes, usa went to his swiss bank accounts with money and talked to swiss government and bam they got his money and put him in jail
May 29 03:56:42 <dangergrrl> (i think it was "Soon To Be A Major Motion Picture"/Abby Hoffman)
May 29 03:57:14 <dangergrrl> one has to wonder
May 29 03:57:45 <dangergrrl> are they really less competent or capable than one would think
May 29 03:57:51 <dangergrrl> or were they not trying
May 29 03:58:37 <DocScrutinizer51> they didn't want to
May 29 03:59:06 <dangergrrl> i think osama bin laden took credit for wtc after the fact because he wanted the notoreity
May 29 03:59:29 <DocScrutinizer51> hell, how to sell Irak to the masses - when bin laden been caughr
May 29 03:59:55 <dangergrrl> the other things that i am sure he was involved with he could have been convicted of
May 29 04:00:28 <dangergrrl> what if they put hime on trial for 9/11 and he actually did not plan that one?
May 29 04:00:28 <ghostnik11> well why wouldn't they want to, i mean osama i feel should have been found the next day and we shouldn't have had to go to war b/c of osama with 2 countries, we should have just sent elite teams like we did from beginning and capture him within a couple weeks or months but not 10 years
May 29 04:00:56 <ghostnik11> dangergrrl: then its back the drawing boards to find out who really did it
May 29 04:01:09 <ghostnik11> but he took credit for doing it
May 29 04:01:26 <dangergrrl> it fit with his agenda to be credited for it
May 29 04:01:37 <dangergrrl> whether he did it or not
May 29 04:02:01 <DocScrutinizer51> ghostnik11: where's the profit in that?
May 29 04:02:11 <DocScrutinizer51> for industry
May 29 04:02:25 <dangergrrl> i do not know what really happened and the people who know for sure are not talking
May 29 04:02:29 <ghostnik11> well one things for sure all troops should be home resting, not at war? since osama bin hidden is found and dead
May 29 04:02:32 <dangergrrl> i do not buy the official story
May 29 04:02:53 <dangergrrl> ghostnik11: that is what i hope will come of this
May 29 04:03:25 <dangergrrl> but the troops will not come home from afghanistan until mid 2012 i bet
May 29 04:03:43 <dangergrrl> just in time for the election
May 29 04:04:05 <ghostnik11> docscrutinizer51: well your right about that the war industrial complex companies are making a fortune but at the people of the usa's expense b/c we have to pay bill through taxes that why i don't think we as a country should put our own people in danger by going to war b/c we lose money and might lose our own people's lives
May 29 04:04:09 <dangergrrl> maybe i just watch rt.com too much
May 29 04:04:28 <ghostnik11> rt.com is great
May 29 04:04:39 <dangergrrl> it is russian propaganda
May 29 04:04:45 <dangergrrl> but i love it
May 29 04:05:23 <dangergrrl> they convinced me that the entire cold war was because of the evil usa and uk
May 29 04:05:44 <ghostnik11> dangergrrl: tell u what if the troops come home in time for re-election then your right about everything you said b/c that's too well timed for current administration
May 29 04:05:47 <dangergrrl> and i saw the vistory day parade in red square
May 29 04:06:24 <ghostnik11> dangergrrl: if the troops come home for 2012, why couldn't they come back now
May 29 04:06:37 <dangergrrl> i do not know what is up with the bilderburg group
May 29 04:06:42 <dangergrrl> i believe they exist
May 29 04:07:14 <dangergrrl> i believe hillary and obama slipped away from campaign commitments to go to a meeting
May 29 04:07:48 <ghostnik11> well there have always been secret societies since god knows when, i believe the exist, and i believe they are powerful in terms of certain things. like elections and other stuff that involves high ranking officials
May 29 04:07:50 <dangergrrl> i do not know that they have plans for mass murder or enslavement
May 29 04:08:26 <dangergrrl> all of this information is out there
May 29 04:08:33 <dangergrrl> some is true and some is false
May 29 04:09:03 <dangergrrl> have you seen "the yes men save the world
May 29 04:09:21 <ghostnik11> yeah well i have the internet to help thanks for the information like stuff like that b/c i know for a fact regular news wouldn't bring stuff like that
May 29 04:09:32 <ghostnik11> the yes men save the world? no? whats that
May 29 04:09:45 <dangergrrl> it is a film on vodo
May 29 04:09:47 <DocScrutinizer51> do you really need anything more than your own common sense to see the truth?
May 29 04:10:09 <dangergrrl> http://vo.do/ or http://vodo.net/ i think
May 29 04:10:29 <ghostnik11> docscrutinizer51: no but its good when you see what you always knew or thought would happen
May 29 04:10:59 <dangergrrl> DocScrutinizer51: you know there is a xephyr/virtualbox issue?
May 29 04:11:12 <dangergrrl> each blames the other
May 29 04:11:16 <DocScrutinizer51> this applies for every BS nowadays. You can find literally everything in internet
May 29 04:11:44 <dangergrrl> xephyr will not work in a client with virtualbox guest editions
May 29 04:11:45 <DocScrutinizer51> dangergrrl: nothing known
May 29 04:12:01 <dangergrrl> and some of the sdk apps are hard coded for unix sockets
May 29 04:12:32 <dangergrrl> if you remove guest additions it works
May 29 04:13:08 <dangergrrl> can not just run xephyr in the host and use ipaddr:2
May 29 04:13:38 <dangergrrl> i wanted to try to fix it myself before i asked anyone for help
May 29 04:13:55 <dangergrrl> i found a workaround
May 29 04:14:46 <dangergrrl> but sadly the virtualbox and xephyr folks are too busy pointing fingers at each other to actually fix the problem if i want it to work right i have to find the bug myself
May 29 04:15:12 <ghostnik11> dangergrrl: thanks for making me aware of the yes men fix the world will watch it and thanks everyone else for information and good conversation on different topics
May 29 04:15:57 <dangergrrl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox-ose/+bug/673597
May 29 04:16:07 <dangergrrl> one of the many articles i found on it
May 29 04:17:42 <dangergrrl> DocScrutinizer51: i wanted it in the irc log that this was a known issue with workaround, is our irc log indexed by google?
May 29 04:18:03 <DocScrutinizer51> sure
May 29 04:18:29 <dangergrrl> good then i do not need to post on tmo or anything :)
May 29 04:18:58 <dangergrrl> i don't actually have an account yet i have not needed to post
May 29 04:20:47 <dangergrrl> i will have one
May 29 04:21:12 <dangergrrl> when i have code to contribute
May 29 04:23:16 <SpeedEvil> Or fix the wiki
May 29 04:24:31 <dangergrrl> does the wiki actually cover installing the sdk in virtualbox with 32 bit ubuntu?
May 29 05:40:06 <psycho_oreos> woot, USB networking finally working properly on both N900 :D
May 29 05:40:48 <pronto> :O
May 29 05:40:48 <pronto> neat
May 29 05:41:07 <psycho_oreos> you have two or more N900?
May 29 05:42:49 <psycho_oreos> maybe not I suppose :)
May 29 05:43:28 <pronto> i have one n900
May 29 05:43:47 <pronto> dont really use it much anymore
May 29 05:44:12 <psycho_oreos> so what do you use now?
May 29 05:44:44 <pronto> the atrix
May 29 05:45:15 <psycho_oreos> android =_=
May 29 05:45:18 <pronto> got tired of being stuck on 2.5g honestly
May 29 05:45:42 <pronto> plus it has a finger print scanner o_o
May 29 05:46:02 <psycho_oreos> I think that's a problem with the carrier if you're stuck with 2.5G
May 29 05:46:18 <pronto> yeah att's freq for 3g is something that the n900 does not support
May 29 05:48:41 <psycho_oreos> lol
May 29 05:48:55 <pronto> plus, i have '4g' , and a phone thats like 1/3rd as thick
May 29 05:51:34 <psycho_oreos> too bad it doesn't have a hardware keyboard and a puny 16GB internal storage :) probably also has locked bootloader
May 29 05:51:56 <psycho_oreos> s/and a/and has a/
May 29 05:51:57 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: too bad it doesn't have a hardware keyboard and has a puny 16GB internal storage :) probably also has locked bootloader
May 29 05:53:21 <pronto> *shrugs* its a lot faster, swype is decent enough
May 29 05:53:50 <pronto> i do miss a lot of the things maemo had though
May 29 05:54:01 <psycho_oreos> well without a doubt it probably will be, dual core 1GHz processor and has google's backing
May 29 05:54:21 <pronto> the camera is horrid comapred to the n900 though
May 29 05:54:38 <pronto> then again the n900 has one of the best cell phone camerss i've seen
May 29 05:58:05 <psycho_oreos> I've heard better cameras are on other phones apart from N900 but meh
May 29 06:04:55 <Kilroo> I think I recall Nokia had one Symbian phone with an 8 megapixel camera, and I think one other phone matched that and someone put out one with a 12...those are the only ones better than the n900's I recall hearing about.
May 29 06:16:03 <psycho_oreos> N8 has 12MP camera iirc
May 29 07:45:39 <robbiethe1st> Hello all
May 29 08:06:33 <robbiethe1st> Hm, so I'm messing with HEN, and a serial adaptor, and I can't quite get it to work. Dmesg reports: "pl2303 ttyUSB0: pl2303_open - failed submitting read urb, error -19"
May 29 08:37:53 <robbiethe1st> *phew*. good. I just made a big mistake, but fortunately it didn't damage anything. I'm /very/ glad now that the n900's charger's rated for 20V maximum imput.
May 29 08:38:06 <robbiethe1st> ...Because I just plugged it into a 12V source accidentally
May 29 08:53:17 <cityligh1s> so its sunday in munchen
May 29 08:54:19 <dm8tbr> I believe it's sunday pretty much everywhere else on this planet by now too.
May 29 08:58:06 <cityligh1s> well I wasnt around this channel much
May 29 08:58:28 <cityligh1s> and there where a few ppl from munich here
May 29 08:59:04 <cityligh1s> I am now seeking a breakfest place
May 29 08:59:10 <cityligh1s> any advice?
May 29 09:02:42 <dm8tbr> haven't been down there in a few years
May 29 09:28:58 <Shapeshifter> cityLights: dude
May 29 09:29:09 <Shapeshifter> cityLights: sorry for not answering the PMs, I've been on travels through asia.
May 29 09:29:13 <Shapeshifter> I'm back now.
May 29 09:29:15 <Shapeshifter> ^^
May 29 09:29:45 <Cor-Ai> awsome
May 29 09:31:59 <psycho_oreos> any of you guys that never used USB networking before? if so, can you please pastebin me your /etc/network/interfaces file?
May 29 09:35:34 <Cor-Ai> psycho_oreos: http://pastebin.com/mvUDDNPt
May 29 09:36:08 <psycho_oreos> Cor-Ai, thanks (apologies for that PM thingy :) got sick of random people PMing without permission)
May 29 09:36:28 <Cor-Ai> psycho_oreos: haha np!
May 29 09:43:57 <psycho_oreos> Cor-Ai, creating a patch file to make my life a little easier :)
May 29 09:48:42 <Itschue> yeeaahaa
May 29 10:03:52 <cityligh1s> ok I am back
May 29 10:04:05 <cityligh1s> great wether in munchen
May 29 10:05:20 <MohammadAG> anyone good at C?
May 29 10:06:25 <MohammadAG> dbusdispatcher.cpp: In member function 'void Maemo::DBusDispatcher::setupDBus()':
May 29 10:06:27 <MohammadAG> dbusdispatcher.cpp:474: error: 'g_main_context_get_thread_default' was not declared in this scope
May 29 10:06:39 <MohammadAG> I can't figure out why I get that, even though glib.h is included
May 29 10:08:01 <psycho_oreos> haha I know very little C, but afaict that's C++ you are meddling around there. Of course its only different in terms of OOL usage between both
May 29 10:09:06 <MohammadAG> psycho_oreos, g_main_context_whatever is glib/C stuff
May 29 10:09:31 <MohammadAG> ii  libglib2.0-dev                       2.20.3-1maemo5+0m5                   Development files for the GLib library
May 29 10:09:33 <MohammadAG> crap :/
May 29 10:09:41 <MohammadAG> Qt 4.8 requires headers from 2.22
May 29 10:10:00 <psycho_oreos> MohammadAG, no what I meant was the filename :) that's the only thing I can see how they different but apart from that I know very little C let alone to tell much of the difference between C and C++ coding styles
May 29 10:10:46 <psycho_oreos> in other words I'm only picking out negligible issues that one usually wouldn't fuss too much over
May 29 10:12:57 <MohammadAG> copying over what compiled
May 29 10:20:49 <chem|st> goooooooog mooorning maemo
May 29 10:21:06 <MohammadAG> http://i51.tinypic.com/eajhom.jpg didn't turn out to be a stupid idea after all
May 29 10:30:49 <psycho_oreos> hah! revisiting the old hack I got to get ja_JP to work on that tmo thread shows how vague I was back then :|
May 29 10:32:51 <chem|st> READY! FIGHT! talk about abill in closed forums started off again
May 29 10:35:45 <robbiethe1st> Closed forums?
May 29 10:41:46 <NIN101> leaked :P
May 29 10:41:59 <SpeedEvil> uu
May 29 10:42:07 * SpeedEvil sighs at keyboards.
May 29 10:46:36 <chem|st> robbiethe1st: we mods have an invisible forum to discuss&track issues (not only people)
May 29 10:47:32 <chem|st> robbiethe1st: primary goal is to act similar and as group and track infractions
May 29 10:48:35 <robbiethe1st> Makes sense...
May 29 10:48:54 <chem|st> barely used but helpfull in some cases
May 29 10:49:22 <robbiethe1st> Yea; like mod forums everywhere
May 29 10:49:42 <robbiethe1st> Now that I know they exist, now I just need to become a mod ;)
May 29 10:50:41 <chem|st> robbiethe1st: they aren't very interessting
May 29 10:51:07 <robbiethe1st> True enough I suppose.
May 29 11:15:28 <compengi> can i install maemo sdk without scratchbox?
May 29 11:17:20 <MohammadAG> no
May 29 11:17:27 <lcuk> compengi, that is like a cream egg without the creme
May 29 11:17:32 <lcuk> cream
May 29 11:24:46 <MoonTiger> hi guys :)
May 29 11:24:56 <MoonTiger> no MUFC fans here i hope :)
May 29 11:25:23 <psycho_oreos> MUFC?
May 29 11:25:30 <MoonTiger> manchester united
May 29 11:25:33 <MohammadAG> Man U I guess
May 29 11:25:56 <MohammadAG> not a fan of barrcelona, so ... ;P
May 29 11:25:59 <MoonTiger> i went to a local bar to watch the game and the ppl went crazy :)
May 29 11:26:17 <BCMM> given the level of geek in here, i would predict a greater than average proportion of people who do not support a football team
May 29 11:26:31 <MoonTiger> me either but the night was a fun night
May 29 11:26:33 <MohammadAG> lol
May 29 11:27:19 <MoonTiger> well anyways... geek stuff
May 29 11:27:35 <MoonTiger> how do i see the output from ULOG_DEBUG_L in sb?
May 29 11:27:50 <BCMM> doesn't maemo SDK typically refer to scratchbox?
May 29 11:28:18 <psycho_oreos> no I hardly watch football, let alone any sports :P
May 29 11:28:29 * psycho_oreos goes back to getting ja_JP locales to work
May 29 11:30:51 <BCMM> out of interest, what other kinds of ja_ exist?
May 29 11:32:31 <psycho_oreos> none
May 29 11:33:18 <psycho_oreos> ja is just Japanese literally.. and the locales weren't ported for use with PR1.3, so there's lots of things one needs to amend to get it to work properly (even though the translation itself is rather incomplete)
May 29 11:42:03 <MoonTiger> anybody have an idea how i can see the output of ULOG_DEBUG_L ?
May 29 11:47:34 * alterego contemplates deleting his TMO account
May 29 11:50:35 <MohammadAG> alterego, you can't do that
May 29 11:50:49 <alterego> Watch me :P
May 29 11:54:55 <psycho_oreos> any of you guys created locales before? I need to figure out apart from regenerating locale-archive, what is required to get Language & region (under Settings) for the locales to show up? I'm sure the obvious solution is reboot but other international locales have managed to have their entry and I'm sure without requiring reboot
May 29 11:56:18 <MohammadAG> psycho_oreos, there's a command for it, I remember it when I helped with the ar-sy locale
May 29 11:57:16 <MohammadAG> Psi,
May 29 11:57:20 <MohammadAG> err, sorry, psycho_oreos
May 29 11:57:22 <MohammadAG> Nokia-N900:~# add_remove_language
May 29 11:57:22 <MohammadAG> Usage: add_remove_language [remove|add] language_CODE
May 29 11:57:59 <psycho_oreos> MohammadAG, hmm I'll give that a try, thanks a bunch!
May 29 11:59:03 <psycho_oreos> hmm doesn't quite work lol, says the language is in the system. I guess that might just be the frontend to localesdef -a
May 29 12:00:25 <psycho_oreos> thing is that Device Language shows up only 3 entries [English (United Kingdom), English (United States of America) and Français (France)]
May 29 12:09:20 <psycho_oreos> bah thanks for the heads up MohammadAG, I had a poke at it. I didn't get far, stringed the binary to try and source its roots and its pointed to gconf. Checked gconf for any possible clues but got nothing lol
May 29 12:09:41 <MohammadAG> psycho_oreos, do you have your language under /usr/share/locale/?
May 29 12:09:48 <MohammadAG> with a code like this xx_XX
May 29 12:10:00 <psycho_oreos> MohammadAG, yup and also in /opt/maemo/usr/share/locale
May 29 12:10:49 <psycho_oreos> its ja_JP, I regenerated locale-archive via: localedef -f UTF-8 -i ja_JP ja_JP.utf-8
May 29 12:11:36 <psycho_oreos> on my other N900, without regenerating locale-archive or even installing n900-extra-locales-jajp I get way more options inside Device Language
May 29 12:12:36 <psycho_oreos> it is funny to note that the locale is mentioned in gconf, for me it appears alongside with zh_CN,zh_HK,zh_TW
May 29 12:14:00 * psycho_oreos is thinking about trying the most dumbest method but probably the foolproof method of checking if that locales will be available.. that is to reboot the device.
May 29 12:22:52 <psycho_oreos> nope that failed.. wonder what I did historically lol
May 29 12:23:25 <RiD> You're talking to yourself? :o
May 29 12:26:40 <psycho_oreos> yes, I'm having such a great time creating a monologue. Must be becoming a broken record player :þ
May 29 12:27:58 * alterego has the wetab os running on his exo :)
May 29 12:28:49 <psycho_oreos> wetab? exo?
May 29 12:29:59 <alterego> Now if only I could find an xterm
May 29 12:32:24 * RiD has double vision.
May 29 12:34:35 <RiD> The funny thing of this IRC chat is that there are loads of people connected, but most of them are sleeping (??)
May 29 12:34:46 <RiD> Sorry, i mean IRC channel*
May 29 12:36:04 <dm8tbr> no, but why should we all fill the channel with meaningless noise. you're new to IRC aren't you?
May 29 12:36:06 <psycho_oreos> there are bots, there are people who live in different timezones and there are those with whom are preoccupied with whatever they are doing to fill their time
May 29 12:37:25 <psycho_oreos> if we're all active, I'm sure this channel would be noisy as hell, your questions would be scrolled out of your site in no time.. and if someone posted an answer during that busy time, you'll have fun scrolling up to see what was the answer
May 29 12:37:33 <psycho_oreos> s/site/sight/
May 29 12:37:33 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: if we're all active, I'm sure this channel would be noisy as hell, your questions would be scrolled out of your sight in no time.. and if someone posted an answer during that busy time, you'll have fun scrolling up to see what was the answer
May 29 13:00:00 <RiD> Hehe, that makes sense. Yes i'm a bit new to IRC's, I've only been on gaming IRCs and they are totally different (it's usually a mess)
May 29 13:16:46 <cityligh1s> so , is there anyone in munich?
May 29 13:17:47 <psycho_oreos> I wish I was
May 29 13:57:43 <cityligh1s> dont know why I keep getting disconected
May 29 13:58:17 <cityligh1s> anyway I am using o2 hdspa and its fine
May 29 13:58:20 <cityligh1s> love sip
May 29 13:58:30 <cityligh1s> ppl can call me in over this voip
May 29 13:58:56 <cityligh1s> ~seen lardman
May 29 13:59:01 <infobot> lardman <~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 15h 50m 26s ago, saying: 'night all'.
May 29 14:16:08 <mr_jrt> Arrg. I seem to have invoked the
May 29 14:16:23 <mr_jrt> N900 boot louckup
May 29 14:16:47 <mr_jrt> Brief dots...then backlit blackness
May 29 14:17:43 <mr_jrt> Is there anyway to see what the actual problem is?
May 29 14:22:10 <cehteh> mr_jrt: power kernel?
May 29 14:24:56 <mr_jrt> 47
May 29 14:26:16 <Choom> I have that issue sometimes, but it's consistent and I've had it ever since I bought the phone
May 29 14:26:22 <Choom> it never boots the first time
May 29 14:26:30 <Choom> only the second
May 29 14:28:09 <mr_jrt> Only thing I've done that's even remotely dodgy was to install syslog, then uninstall it. I then moved /var/log to /opt/var/log and added a symlink to prevent rootfs filling up if I forgot to remove syslog next time.
May 29 14:31:23 <psycho_oreos> I think that's where you borked it, I've done that before
May 29 14:31:36 <mr_jrt> Reflashing isn't a big problem...but I'd really like the "/home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger" directory. I'm guessing if I reflash the rootfs, that wipes that out?
May 29 14:32:15 <mr_jrt> ...in hindsight, the optify log should have probably set of alarm bells that the logs can't go on another partition as there aren't any for that log
May 29 14:32:32 <mr_jrt> (when it starts up)
May 29 14:34:01 <psycho_oreos> reflashing fiasco/combined shouldn't affect /home/user
May 29 14:53:16 * alterego just purchased a mini HDMI-C -> HDMI-A for his exo :)
May 29 14:53:27 <DocScrutinizer> burp
May 29 14:54:01 <mr_jrt> How right you are. Phew.
May 29 14:54:39 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: there's an interesting meego project you may be interested in.
May 29 14:54:43 <alterego> Hardware related
May 29 14:54:53 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
May 29 14:55:06 <alterego> There's been some talk exploring the possibility of creating a community driven device.
May 29 14:55:22 <mr_jrt> Ironically, I was avoiding backupmenu on my main N900 as I didn't want anything that could compliate boot and break things. Might have to make another exception now ;)
May 29 14:55:27 <alterego> With an investor ..
May 29 14:55:36 <DocScrutinizer> hahaha
May 29 14:55:50 <DocScrutinizer> been there done that, 1000 times too often
May 29 14:56:06 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, count on me
May 29 14:56:09 <alterego> We have an investor
May 29 14:56:19 <DocScrutinizer> we had as well, at OM
May 29 14:56:23 <alterego> But yeah, thought you might be interested.
May 29 14:56:39 <alterego> Still very early days yet, I'll keep you posted as things start shaping.
May 29 14:57:01 <DocScrutinizer> thanks a lot, very interesting
May 29 14:58:06 <DocScrutinizer> you're lucky, I'm vacant atm ;-D
May 29 14:58:24 <alterego> Currently I think the idea is to use some reference platform, but still unclear.
May 29 14:58:56 <alterego> Oh, definitely ARM too ;)
May 29 14:59:01 <DocScrutinizer> good
May 29 14:59:46 <DocScrutinizer> if you want to go not tooooo adventurous, then even keep the arch (OMAP)
May 29 14:59:58 <alterego> I think I'll be pushing OMAP for sure
May 29 15:00:18 <alterego> We need to reduce the work involved in keeping an adaptation N900 like
May 29 15:00:35 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 29 15:00:44 <DocScrutinizer> sensible
May 29 15:02:03 <MoonTiger> hi guys :)
May 29 15:02:40 <MoonTiger> can anybody point me somewhere that explains how to see the DEBUG messages while my app is running in sb?
May 29 15:09:51 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: is your investor prepared to go up to the 10^6USD range?
May 29 15:10:43 <alterego> I'm gonna leave that to him.
May 29 15:10:46 <DocScrutinizer> anything less is prone to fail
May 29 15:10:56 <alterego> We're not looking at a mass market device.
May 29 15:11:09 <alterego> We're looking at a developer handset platform
May 29 15:11:19 <alterego> So maybe 10-100k units
May 29 15:11:21 <DocScrutinizer> the issue with hw is that mass market doesn't really make the big diff
May 29 15:11:22 <alterego> (I'm guessing here)
May 29 15:11:40 <DocScrutinizer> 10k are already MP btw
May 29 15:12:12 <alterego> :)
May 29 15:12:12 <DocScrutinizer> the rest is just feeding the sales dudes with enough cookies
May 29 15:12:21 <alterego> Well, hardware isn't exactly my speciality ;)
May 29 15:12:47 <DocScrutinizer> the magic limit is somewhere between 10 and 1000
May 29 15:12:50 <DocScrutinizer> units
May 29 15:13:21 <alterego> He obviously wants to make his money back, but I don't think he's interested in profit
May 29 15:13:23 <DocScrutinizer> more next to 500 than to 50
May 29 15:14:32 <DocScrutinizer> I got a lil bit of RL experience with this stuff - you're free to ping me (or send a flight ticket) anytime
May 29 15:14:43 <alterego> :)
May 29 15:14:57 <alterego> Like I said, early days, but you didn't pop into my mind when we were discussing this.
May 29 15:17:21 <DocScrutinizer> that's been a failure. I probably even could bring in the beter 10% of OM experience staff
May 29 15:18:35 <DocScrutinizer> building hw is an ongoing process over there, and there are some contacts and cute people, which I might tease
May 29 15:20:17 <DocScrutinizer> ( of curse me being the cutest of them all, when it comes to designing hw ;-P )
May 29 15:22:05 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: you should talk to your peers/group/whatever now, as many really fundamental and hurting conceptual ooopses happen at early planning stage
May 29 15:24:05 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: isn't this a topic for #meego-arm, #meego, or a private /query ?
May 29 15:24:21 <alterego> Probably, I was just mentioning it, you're the one that started getting into a deep discussion :P
May 29 15:24:22 <DocScrutinizer> or any ##channel
May 29 15:24:41 <alterego> I'll keep you informed, the real discussions will probably start next week.
May 29 15:24:49 <alterego> And in the public
May 29 15:24:50 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: you got me excited about it
May 29 15:24:56 <alterego> So I'll ping you when something happens
May 29 15:25:02 <DocScrutinizer> thanks
May 29 15:25:12 <alterego> Anyway, I'm gonna play with my exo
May 29 15:26:04 <DocScrutinizer> time for 12648430   ☕
May 29 15:27:16 <alterego> exo pc slate :P
May 29 15:27:23 <alterego> aka wetab reference tablet
May 29 15:30:09 <mr_jrt> <cityligh1s> If you mean disconnected from IRC, then I started getting it a lot on here. I found something saying that Freenode doesn't do the ping/pong thing properly, and they supplied a script that pings on connect or somesuch to keep the connection active. Fixed it for me.
May 29 15:32:20 <mr_jrt> Ah, here it is: http://forums.mirc.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/37425/page/1/fpart/3#Post37472
May 29 15:33:40 <DocScrutinizer> duh, what?
May 29 15:34:02 <Choom> the old ircd did not ping clients
May 29 15:34:44 <Choom> you ghosts would stay online forever if they were idling outside of channels, or at least until wallops or any kind of global messages were sent
May 29 15:34:52 <Choom> s/you/so
May 29 15:36:01 <mr_jrt> I dunno. Not much of an IRCer. Just using an old mIRC version I have around. I was getting disconnected every 5 minutes or so...which grew very tiresome when looking for activity after much idling.
May 29 15:36:03 <theoriginalgri> alterego: How is the exopc display when using in the garden (shade)?
May 29 15:36:48 <alterego> I've not really tested it, hang on
May 29 15:55:23 <Cor-Ai> psycho_oreos: haha ok,
May 29 15:59:00 <DocScrutinizer> Choom: isn't it standard for *each* end to ping the other with keep-alives?
May 29 16:00:23 <DocScrutinizer> if only to keep sessions alive on NAT
May 29 16:41:01 <Choom> DocScrutinizer: I have no clue, but the old ircd didn't, and along with causing ghosts to stay online forever it also caused problems with NAT; the current ircd doesn't have that issue anymore, though as I understand it the pings ae kinda low freq so they may still cause issues with NAT
May 29 16:42:53 <DocScrutinizer> indeed, aiui they changed ping interval for freenode lately (some 12 months ago), from 10 -> 2 min. Or was it other way around?
May 29 16:43:30 <Sicelo> Choom: i don't know too much about irc, but every pc in swaziland is behind nat, afaict, and i have never had any issues
May 29 16:43:54 <Sicelo> except with sending/receivering files via dcc
May 29 16:43:56 <Choom> if you are on active channels it is unlikely to affect you
May 29 16:44:16 <Choom> the problems only manifest on idle connections
May 29 16:44:41 <FIQ|n900> Hi. Now it's the 2nd time a SMS don't arrive at my side. Just wonder before i proceed, is this N900 or my provider's fault (or is it possible that it can be any of them)?
May 29 16:45:10 <Sicelo> your sms center number correctly set?
May 29 16:45:24 <FIQ|n900> It works, not just always, so yeah
May 29 16:46:49 <FIQ|n900> Also, one time following thing happened recently: I got a SMS, readed it, etc, all fine. Then N900 crash rebooted (as happens sometimes), and I ended up getting it again (but I didn't end up having 2 of them - the first just disappeared)
May 29 16:53:21 <Sicelo> idk FIQ|n900
May 29 16:53:47 <Sicelo> what did u do 1st timeto make it work fine again/
May 29 16:54:17 <Sicelo> /s/timeto/time to/
May 29 16:54:27 <Sicelo> s/timeto/time to/
May 29 16:54:27 <infobot> Sicelo meant: /s/time to/time to/
May 29 16:55:11 <Sicelo> yay!
May 29 17:15:41 <Macer> er
May 29 17:15:51 <DocScrutinizer> FIQ: hildon-notifications use a db to pop up that "new SMS" notifier. On a crash this db might not update correctly and so the same notification show again after boot. That doesn't mean the SMS got transmitted OTA 2 times
May 29 17:15:52 <Macer> hello
May 29 17:17:19 <DocScrutinizer> if an SMS doesn't arrive that's usually carrier's fault
May 29 17:18:00 <Necc> most providers sends out the SMS only once, whenever the device conformed the receive or not
May 29 17:18:09 <DocScrutinizer> SMS also time out (sender of SMS may select an expiry period, also may request for delivery notification)
May 29 17:18:40 <Necc> SMS timeout is typically weeks or even months
May 29 17:18:52 <DocScrutinizer> meh, 1 week max afaik
May 29 17:19:04 <Necc> operator depedent
May 29 17:19:36 <Necc> my operator stores up to 3 months (aked customer service)
May 29 17:23:07 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, my 10y-old Nokia 6210 had a setting for expiry time of SMS. Can't find anything like that on N900 - as usual :-/
May 29 17:23:38 <Necc> point of that?
May 29 17:24:02 <Necc> not just N900 doesn't support such thing, same applies to my symbian devices
May 29 17:24:47 <DocScrutinizer> sometimes it feels like N900 designers just specified things they used in their own daily usage pattern, rather than looking at any sane example or spec for finding out about what's mandatory or even standard
May 29 17:25:16 <DocScrutinizer> prominent example: starhash
May 29 17:25:26 <DocScrutinizer> aka GSM service codes
May 29 17:25:42 <DocScrutinizer> "divert on busy? WTF?!"
May 29 17:26:15 <Necc> forward if no reply...
May 29 17:26:48 <Necc> but hey, they made *#06# work :P
May 29 17:26:56 <DocScrutinizer> pffff
May 29 17:27:18 <DocScrutinizer> probably just because they'd not pass FCC cert otherwise
May 29 17:27:57 <Necc> FCC checks software too?
May 29 17:28:03 <DocScrutinizer> you bet
May 29 17:28:15 <NIN101> There was a pretty cool vulnerable on a Nokia Phone afaik, DoS over SMS. It caim never to the point where the Device would acknowledge the receivment of the SMS, so ones it rebooted and logged in to the GSM again, the provider would usually send the SMS again...
May 29 17:29:16 <DocScrutinizer> there were several those glitches. Another one iirc was to send a SMS with a special char sequence that somehow fsckd up the phone
May 29 17:29:37 <NIN101> yes, afaik there was a talk about it on the 27c3
May 29 17:29:43 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
May 29 17:30:01 <Necc> Siemens S60... send a special SMS -> brickphone!
May 29 17:30:43 <MohammadAG> ~seen Venemo
May 29 17:30:48 <infobot> venemo <~Timur@timur.sch.bme.hu> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 4h 50m 19s ago, saying: '~seen zehjotkah'.
May 29 17:31:46 <Necc> shall i check if on MSN?
May 29 17:33:20 <DocScrutinizer> lo MohammadAG
May 29 17:43:02 <MohammadAG> hey DocScrutinizer
May 29 17:43:38 <Robot101> the dependencies on maemo are such a trainwreck, I can't install bluemaemo without some libeina crap and removing ogg support for gstreamer. boggle
May 29 17:44:00 <DocScrutinizer> mmpf
May 29 17:44:56 <DocScrutinizer> now when YOU say that...
May 29 17:45:10 <maybeHere> ..ooO(debian-based, allright)
May 29 17:45:19 <DocScrutinizer> ...I gather it's just useless to try to help
May 29 17:46:18 <DocScrutinizer> you for sure know your way around, and it's quite certainly completely wrecked if you say there are those issues
May 29 17:46:59 <Robot101> yeah it's more, I don't quite have the energy to try and debug at the moment
May 29 17:47:01 <Robot101> something is whacked
May 29 17:47:27 <DocScrutinizer> hi btw
May 29 17:47:37 <Robot101> hi o/ :) I only want bluemaemo so I can type in my details on the mac so I can buy portal 2
May 29 17:47:45 <Robot101> now I got my projector back from repair :)
May 29 17:48:00 <Robot101> unforutnately my bluetooth kbd has run out of batteries so I'm waiting for them to recharge...
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 29 18:06:11 2011
May 29 18:25:32 * MoonTiger walks in and waves
May 29 18:25:34 <MoonTiger> hi guys
May 29 18:26:18 <MoonTiger> nobody home?
May 29 18:26:23 * MoonTiger sighs
May 29 18:26:29 <nox-> moin MoonTiger
May 29 18:26:42 <MoonTiger> :)
May 29 18:26:55 <MoonTiger> you wouldnt happen to know anything about signond would you?
May 29 18:27:12 <nox-> not really sorry
May 29 18:27:44 <nox-> hm theres a comma missing there i guess...
May 29 18:27:44 <MoonTiger> ok thnx anyways :)
May 29 18:28:00 <MoonTiger> ?
May 29 18:28:13 <nox-> not really, sorry
May 29 18:28:14 <nox-> :)
May 29 18:35:55 * lcuk moons at wavetiger
May 29 18:40:20 <MoonTiger> hey lcuk
May 29 18:40:22 <MoonTiger> :)
May 29 18:40:29 <MoonTiger> just banging my head against a wall
May 29 18:40:34 <MoonTiger> didnt see you
May 29 18:40:37 <lcuk> :( poor wall
May 29 18:40:41 <lcuk> what are you stuck with?
May 29 18:40:47 * MoonTiger sighs
May 29 18:40:52 <MoonTiger> sharing plugin
May 29 18:41:09 <lcuk> and what specifically is your problem with it?
May 29 18:41:27 * MoonTiger look sat the alphabeticized list of problems....
May 29 18:41:30 <MoonTiger> heh
May 29 18:41:43 <MoonTiger> well right now i cant get signond to run without errors
May 29 18:42:23 <lcuk> is signond something you wrote?
May 29 18:42:33 * lcuk is ignorant of what signond is
May 29 18:43:05 <MoonTiger> lcuk, no its apparently the signon daemon that runs onb the actual tablets but in sbv you need to start it manually signond &
May 29 18:43:09 <MoonTiger> but it fails
May 29 18:43:24 <lcuk> sbv?
May 29 18:43:34 <MoonTiger> sb
May 29 18:43:35 <MoonTiger> sorry
May 29 18:43:42 <lcuk> if it runs on the tablets it should already be running?
May 29 18:43:47 <lcuk> ahh
May 29 18:43:55 <MoonTiger> no according to the docs you have to start it manually
May 29 18:43:56 <lcuk> so this is something you cannot test within scratchbox
May 29 18:44:04 <MoonTiger> apparently you can
May 29 18:44:06 <lcuk> or are having trouble testing
May 29 18:44:16 <MoonTiger> the sharing set up runs but fails to send anything because of a) abouve
May 29 18:45:13 <lcuk> hmm I owuld say: have you tested it on device itself
May 29 18:45:24 <MoonTiger> no ... its totally not ready for that yet
May 29 18:45:37 <MoonTiger> im just tryng to get it to talk to the internet
May 29 18:46:37 <lcuk> ok
May 29 18:47:03 <lcuk> lets go back a bit: you said "signond &" files
May 29 18:47:15 <lcuk> what specific error messages do you get
May 29 18:47:25 <lcuk> during the course of trying to run this
May 29 18:47:26 <MoonTiger> signond[1607]: GLIB CRITICAL ** default - signond: cannot setup proper DB access rights: 1
May 29 18:47:36 <lcuk> it might be other misc random planet alignments went wrong too
May 29 18:47:55 <lcuk> ok MoonTiger which user are you running it as?
May 29 18:48:02 <lcuk> have you tried "fakeroot signond &"
May 29 18:48:05 <lcuk> or similar?
May 29 18:48:06 <MoonTiger> i try as me and as fakeroot
May 29 18:48:11 <MoonTiger> both fail
May 29 18:48:20 <MoonTiger> and the docs dont mention fakeroot
May 29 18:49:15 <lcuk> yeah i know
May 29 18:49:25 * MoonTiger laughs
May 29 18:49:25 <lcuk> hm on my scratchbox I havent even got signond
May 29 18:49:31 <MoonTiger> right
May 29 18:49:35 <MoonTiger> awesome hey?
May 29 18:50:00 <MoonTiger> not hard to figure why nokia went so far down lately *sigh*
May 29 18:50:22 <Macer> haha
May 29 18:50:35 <Macer> MoonTiger: thats what i said about their horrible sdk
May 29 18:50:50 <Macer> i think they just slapped it together and shoved it out there
May 29 18:51:01 <Macer> even the vm image is crap
May 29 18:51:08 <MoonTiger> i dont think its even finished actually
May 29 18:51:18 <lcuk> well scratchbox does handle most of this stuff and the emulator does work, I have just never seen anyone playing with sharing services like htis
May 29 18:51:19 <Macer> it sure isn't
May 29 18:51:32 <MoonTiger> i think they just bent over for MS and dropped everything, including their pants
May 29 18:51:40 * lcuk knows of only a couple of people who might even know
May 29 18:51:52 <lcuk> but I dont know if they ever used scratchbox
May 29 18:51:53 <Macer> well. they dont support maemo anymore
May 29 18:51:58 <Macer> not for a long time
May 29 18:52:10 <Macer> lcuk: no community sdk?
May 29 18:52:18 <Macer> is it possible to make one?
May 29 18:52:21 <Macer> :)
May 29 18:52:23 <MoonTiger> this is why i got fed up with my N810
May 29 18:52:43 <MoonTiger> the N900 hardware is great (apaet from the usb)
May 29 18:52:49 <MoonTiger> but the dev stuff?
May 29 18:53:00 <lcuk> MoonTiger, what are you actually writing?
May 29 18:53:05 <MoonTiger> i dont think ive ever tried to work with such a broken tool chain
May 29 18:53:16 <Macer> heh
May 29 18:53:21 <MoonTiger> i want to write a sharing plugin for my website
May 29 18:53:48 <lcuk> sounds reasonable
May 29 18:53:57 <lcuk> ftp uploader type thing?
May 29 18:54:04 <MoonTiger> i wrote one for symbian ... one for android ... i figured the N900 should be easy enough
May 29 18:54:24 <MoonTiger> http://gagfoot.com
May 29 18:54:31 <MoonTiger> a piccie uploader type thing
May 29 18:55:00 <lcuk> MoonTiger, I believe someone already did write a configurable one
May 29 18:55:22 <MoonTiger> the pavo-pavo-pavo-whatever one?
May 29 18:55:46 <MoonTiger> but i want to write one ... it cannot be that hard
May 29 18:55:58 <lcuk> I know
May 29 18:56:07 <lcuk> there are a large number of sharing services though
May 29 18:56:12 <MoonTiger> its kinda like my own personal hello world
May 29 18:56:13 <lcuk> ie, they have somehow managed it
May 29 18:56:17 <lcuk> sure
May 29 18:56:23 <lcuk> everyone has their birdsong
May 29 18:56:34 <MoonTiger> i have some example code but that doesnt tell me how to get f***ing signond working *sigh*
May 29 18:57:06 <MoonTiger> but this is why we're geeks right? to beat our head against walls untill something sinks in :)
May 29 18:57:34 <MoonTiger> lcuk, are you still debeloping for N900?
May 29 18:57:41 <MoonTiger> developing too
May 29 18:58:07 <lcuk> i have MeeGo n900-DE running on my n900
May 29 18:58:17 <MoonTiger> oooooooo
May 29 18:58:22 <MoonTiger> hows that working out for you?
May 29 18:58:48 <lcuk> I test/workon/faff/discuss/cunjure up stuff on it
May 29 18:59:02 <lcuk> it is looking a hell of a lot better now than it did 6 months ago
May 29 18:59:18 <MoonTiger> is it functional
May 29 18:59:47 <lcuk> vsync tearing patches, meego tablet ux, real QML apps etc
May 29 19:00:02 <MoonTiger> so you can use it for your main device?
May 29 19:00:04 <lcuk> I keep reaching for it for tasks but not everything works
May 29 19:00:08 <MoonTiger> ah
May 29 19:00:43 <lcuk> I purposefully keep it within hands reach, it has gotten stable enough to perform actions
May 29 19:01:01 <lcuk> and I am looking for ways to update daily (ssu) rather than having to reflash
May 29 19:01:15 <theoriginalgri> oh since you're talking about qml apps ... is the flash memory of the n900 so much slower than on the iphone? If you've seen the video on youtube with qml on the iphone: it starts immediately, on my maemo n900 it loads a while
May 29 19:01:18 <lcuk> because once data gets onto the device and being filled in more than "I added 3 test contacts"
May 29 19:01:22 <nox-> how many device do you have lcuk?
May 29 19:01:55 <nox-> devices even
May 29 19:04:58 <lcuk> nox- that are in use, 2 in regular testing and 1 with broken usb
May 29 19:05:17 <nox-> heh ok
May 29 19:05:24 <MoonTiger> lcuk, you have the broken usb
May 29 19:05:27 <MoonTiger> ?
May 29 19:05:46 <nox-> yeah how do you charge that one, external charger?
May 29 19:06:13 <lcuk> yeah nox-, but I need usb working for data rather than batteries
May 29 19:06:20 <lcuk> MoonTiger, ^
May 29 19:06:25 <MoonTiger> :)
May 29 19:06:26 <nox-> i c
May 29 19:06:44 * nox- must be lucky, my usb still works
May 29 19:07:05 <lcuk> the one with broken usb was from lukes room
May 29 19:07:17 * lcuk shakes walking stick at kids
May 29 19:07:23 <nox-> haha
May 29 19:08:14 <lcuk> MoonTiger, http://liqbase.net/20110526_002.jpg
May 29 19:08:19 <lcuk> my apps scale upwards
May 29 19:08:52 <MoonTiger> schweet
May 29 19:08:59 <MoonTiger> thinkpad i see ;)
May 29 19:09:42 <lcuk> hmm that has broken screen atm
May 29 19:09:49 * lcuk cannot wander round with that one
May 29 19:09:54 <MoonTiger> shame ... i only use thinkpads
May 29 19:10:02 <lcuk> I replaced the screen ok
May 29 19:10:11 <lcuk> several hundred parts
May 29 19:10:14 <lcuk> scattered on bed
May 29 19:10:25 <MoonTiger> :)
May 29 19:10:25 <lcuk> but the inverter is broke too
May 29 19:10:34 <MoonTiger> they dont cost much tho right?
May 29 19:10:39 <lcuk> no
May 29 19:10:47 <lcuk> I hope it is the inverter anyway
May 29 19:10:54 <lcuk> if it is the ribbon cable that is worse
May 29 19:19:05 <lcuk> TheXception|off, please show me where QML running on iphone?
May 29 19:19:39 <lcuk> since QML is just a data set, if the QMLlauncher is running already and you open a small test, it should not be slow
May 29 19:19:41 <ruskie> hmm wanted to use my old n95 for gps and music box type stuff on my bike with no sim... but can't get any gps lockon... fun... :(
May 29 19:20:00 <lcuk> but if you are loading/opening the whole QML infrastructure to open a 1kb QML file it is understandable
May 29 19:21:25 <dm8tbr> ruskie: most likely the gps chipset is deaf as a stone without access to AGPS data
May 29 19:21:54 <ruskie> dm8tbr, or the offline mode is keeping it offline
May 29 19:22:27 <ruskie> so on to the next question... anyone managed to make an app for the N900 that would expose the GPS through bluetooth? so that one could pair it with other bluetooth devices?
May 29 19:22:40 <jacekowski> lcuk: can you scale out as well?
May 29 19:23:20 <jacekowski> lcuk: what have you broken?
May 29 19:23:42 * MoonTiger goes back to fighting signond
May 29 19:24:50 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, any ideas about signond ?
May 29 19:24:50 <lcuk> jacekowski, screen got damaged on the thinkpad
May 29 19:25:12 <jacekowski> as in no backlight?
May 29 19:25:17 <jacekowski> or nothing at all
May 29 19:25:29 <MohammadAG> What's signond?
May 29 19:26:01 <MoonTiger> inside of sb
May 29 19:26:04 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71414
May 29 19:30:28 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: for an occasional flashing it will "just work" if you take care about proper ESD protection (discharge all static before connecting... first touch metal to metal of both devices to connect)
May 29 19:31:46 <MohammadAG> no, I meant what is it
May 29 19:32:03 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, next CSSU will make you less worried about the CSSU
May 29 19:32:16 <DocScrutinizer> \o/
May 29 19:32:26 <MohammadAG> which should tonight
May 29 19:32:29 <MohammadAG> should be*
May 29 19:34:41 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, its the sharing service sign on daemon
May 29 19:34:59 <MohammadAG> oh, no idea
May 29 19:35:03 <MohammadAG> frals might know
May 29 19:38:10 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer,
May 29 19:38:12 <lcuk> ..
May 29 19:38:15 <lcuk> nice
May 29 19:40:25 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: It's been a sure bet Nokia needs access to those signals during production process, without mating that friggin micro-USB
May 29 19:41:17 <DocScrutinizer> I mentioned that here in this chan prior to that thread showing up, IIRC
May 29 19:41:53 <ruskie> hmm nice there is a bluetooth gps tool for the n90
May 29 19:41:58 <ruskie> erm n900
May 29 19:42:18 <ds3> bluetooth gps tool ? where?
May 29 19:43:05 <ruskie> as in to make the n900 act as a bluetooth/usb/network gps device
May 29 19:43:14 <ruskie> columbus
May 29 19:43:21 <ruskie> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67276
May 29 19:43:28 <FIQ> I will speak to my carrier if it happens again then (about SMS receviving problem)
May 29 19:43:50 <MoonTiger> oh hey lcuk how do i get debug messages to show up on the terminal window?
May 29 19:44:03 <ds3> Nice
May 29 19:44:11 <ds3> ruskie, I haven't seen that before. thanks!
May 29 19:44:19 <ruskie> I just started looking for it
May 29 19:44:38 <ruskie> now I might actually be able to use the n95 as a cheap display thingy for the phone while the n900 is nicely tucked somewhere more safe
May 29 19:48:05 <MoonTiger> f**k this is frustrating
May 29 19:55:57 <MoonTiger> how do i get an xterm on the sb emulator?
May 29 19:56:36 <cehteh> osso_xsterm
May 29 19:56:45 <MoonTiger> yah but how do i install it?
May 29 19:56:55 <shanttu> I ran into unmet depencies when upgrading smscon editor, any help? http://pastebin.com/qLZkuwum
May 29 19:56:59 <MohammadAG> why do you need an xterm
May 29 19:57:06 <MohammadAG> just use the scratchbox shell
May 29 19:57:09 <MoonTiger> to see if there are some files missing
May 29 19:57:14 <MoonTiger> right
May 29 19:57:17 * MoonTiger slaps head
May 29 19:57:19 <MoonTiger> thnx
May 29 19:57:34 <MohammadAG> cehteh, osso-xterm isn't installed since you don't need it
May 29 19:58:03 <cehteh> heh .. could be its long ago that i used the sdk only installed it 2 days ago
May 29 19:58:07 <cehteh> (again)
May 29 19:58:43 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, how do i get log messages to show when my app runs?
May 29 19:59:05 <MohammadAG> if your app logs they should just show there
May 29 19:59:09 <MohammadAG> it's a normal shell
May 29 19:59:10 <MoonTiger> where?
May 29 19:59:17 <MohammadAG> scratchbox shell
May 29 19:59:22 <MoonTiger> nothing shows up
May 29 19:59:33 <lcuk> MohammadAG, afaik MoonTiger is making a sharing plugin thingie
May 29 19:59:39 <lcuk> ie not a normal urnning app instance
May 29 19:59:46 <lcuk> running even
May 29 19:59:57 <MoonTiger> no lcuk MoonTiger is breaking this desk up with my head
May 29 20:00:00 <cehteh> MoonTiger: what kind of app? C/C++/Qt?
May 29 20:00:07 <MoonTiger> c
May 29 20:00:11 <MohammadAG> oh, so how do you run it then?
May 29 20:00:24 <MoonTiger> sharing setup in control panel
May 29 20:00:30 <MoonTiger> add new account
May 29 20:00:33 <MohammadAG> cehteh, I'd guess C, since that's the only API available
May 29 20:00:35 <cehteh> checkout nobug.pipapo.org my debugging and logging library :) .. i once compiled it on the n900
May 29 20:00:44 <MohammadAG> (there are C++ wrappers but I haven't seen anyone using them)
May 29 20:00:54 <cehteh> worked but i dont want to package it by myself
May 29 20:01:06 <MoonTiger> cehteh, is it ready to use on the n900 now?
May 29 20:01:13 <cehteh> should be
May 29 20:01:19 <lcuk> MoonTiger, :( please do not break the desk, seek to duplicate one of the existing open source sharing things
May 29 20:01:21 <cehteh> if not blame me i'll fix then
May 29 20:01:31 <lcuk> fmms is python and has bindings to sharing service
May 29 20:01:33 <cehteh> you just have to build and install it
May 29 20:01:34 <lcuk> I believe
May 29 20:01:43 <MohammadAG> i thought the syslog is shown on stdout/err
May 29 20:02:11 <MoonTiger> lcuk, yes i am doing exactly that but the signond thing is broken and is preventing me from moving forward
May 29 20:02:26 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, well i must be doing something wrong then
May 29 20:02:28 <lcuk> test on device
May 29 20:02:36 <lcuk> I always did all my testing directly there anyway
May 29 20:02:49 * lcuk did not understand scratchbox much 
May 29 20:03:02 <MoonTiger> lcuk, but even if it "runs" on the device i still need to be able to test it on the sb
May 29 20:03:05 * MohammadAG never uses X86 scratchbox
May 29 20:03:19 * MoonTiger sighs
May 29 20:03:33 <MoonTiger> im beginning to think installing gcc on the n900 is the easiest way to go
May 29 20:03:34 <cehteh> i should install the SDK on the device too .. chroot
May 29 20:03:39 <MohammadAG> Actually I did use it, before I had the device
May 29 20:03:47 <MohammadAG> cehteh, I haz that
May 29 20:03:55 <MohammadAG> way too slow for Qt apps though
May 29 20:04:10 <lcuk> MoonTiger, :) it is easy, however the rest of the sdk (especially all hildon dependencies) makes it non trivial
May 29 20:04:25 <MoonTiger> ok i will start with a simpler regular app to make sure i understand the tool chain
May 29 20:04:29 <lcuk> MohammadAG, you did actual testing of qt apps on device didn't you?
May 29 20:04:34 <cehteh> MohammadAG: would be nice to make a package out of it somehow, because i am lazy :P
May 29 20:04:56 <cehteh> i dont program in Qt anyways :)
May 29 20:04:59 <MoonTiger> cehteh, your debug lib ... it runs as a service?
May 29 20:05:03 <MohammadAG> cehteh, asked X-Fade about it once, he didn't reply
May 29 20:05:12 <MohammadAG> We need Nokia's approval to reupload their binaries
May 29 20:05:15 <cehteh> MoonTiger: nope you link it to your application
May 29 20:05:22 <MohammadAG> and installing binaries on the device is a b****
May 29 20:05:27 <MoonTiger> ok so i just build the lib and inc the headers as usua
May 29 20:05:32 <MoonTiger> l
May 29 20:05:32 <MohammadAG> lcuk, only compiled them as a benchmark
May 29 20:05:43 <cehteh> internally it logs everything to a ringbuffer (which you may turn persistent)
May 29 20:05:57 <MoonTiger> can i see the log messages somewhere easy?
May 29 20:06:07 <MohammadAG> cehteh, I think lcuk's liqflow compiled in 3 seconds?
May 29 20:06:07 <cehteh> and then it dispatches logging to whatever you like, console, debugger, files, syslog etc
May 29 20:06:17 <MoonTiger> sweet
May 29 20:06:22 <MoonTiger> i will give it a go
May 29 20:06:30 <lcuk> MohammadAG, and the qt app took nearly 2minutes I recall?
May 29 20:06:47 <MohammadAG> 3 or 4
May 29 20:06:53 <cehteh> controlled by a env var   NOBUG_LOG=something:TRACE,somethingelse:NOTICE@syslog etc
May 29 20:06:54 <MohammadAG> that was my mediaplayer
May 29 20:07:39 <MoonTiger> cehteh, so "set NOBUG_LOG=STDOUT" ?
May 29 20:08:02 * MohammadAG would use export
May 29 20:08:11 <cehteh> NOBUG_LOG=something:TRACE   .. if you do a 'alpha' build it logs to console
May 29 20:08:12 <MoonTiger> cehteh, you wrote this?
May 29 20:08:24 <cehteh> it tries to give sane defaults
May 29 20:08:26 <cehteh> yes
May 29 20:08:30 <MoonTiger> wow
May 29 20:08:54 <MoonTiger> i am ashamed to admit it but most of my c/c++ experience is from windows
May 29 20:08:55 <cehteh> where 'something' is a flag/channel you have to define
May 29 20:09:03 <MoonTiger> im not used to the gcc tool chains
May 29 20:09:28 <cehteh> MoonTiger: i am prolly later into cinema and back then in a few hour if you have any questions, you can nag me or subscribe its mailinglist
May 29 20:09:34 <cityligh1s> hi again
May 29 20:09:38 <MoonTiger> thnx
May 29 20:09:40 <MoonTiger> :)
May 29 20:09:41 <lcuk> MohammadAG, it was the one album art test app wasnt it?
May 29 20:10:02 <cityligh1s> ~seen lardman
May 29 20:10:08 <MohammadAG> lcuk, nah, half working mediaplayer
May 29 20:10:10 <infobot> lardman <~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22h 1m 33s ago, saying: 'night all'.
May 29 20:10:31 <cehteh> cityligh1s: tomorrow evening? :)
May 29 20:10:57 <cityligh1s> I seek help at muchen, can anyone recomend a cool place to dine?
May 29 20:11:15 <cehteh> hofbräuhaus? :)
May 29 20:11:19 <cehteh> j/k
May 29 20:11:22 <cityligh1s> cehteh: hi there
May 29 20:11:32 <cehteh> i dont know munich well
May 29 20:11:52 <cityligh1s> time passed so fast, and 2morrow I am traveling to your town
May 29 20:11:58 * MoonTiger goes off to get some bread and honey
May 29 20:12:46 <cityligh1s> can you send me your number or gtalk?
May 29 20:13:01 <cehteh> skype .. 'cehteh'
May 29 20:13:03 <cityligh1s> there whee sevral ppl from munchen here
May 29 20:13:25 <cehteh> my lumiera co developer is in munich
May 29 20:13:46 <cehteh> cityligh1s: you use skype?
May 29 20:14:21 <cityligh1s> yes. min
May 29 20:14:27 <cehteh> i see :)
May 29 20:18:48 <MoonTiger> i think i need to go back to basics and learn the autotools stuff
May 29 20:19:15 <cityligh1s> does anyone remeber how is from munchen here?
May 29 20:19:28 <cehteh> MoonTiger: maybe you try scons, its little better
May 29 20:19:40 <cehteh> i use autotools too, just a old bad habit
May 29 20:19:45 <MoonTiger> cehteh, does it run on maemo?
May 29 20:19:57 <cehteh> its python prolly yes
May 29 20:20:18 <MoonTiger> i think i should actually learn autotools tho ... its used everywhere
May 29 20:20:27 <cehteh> ok :)
May 29 20:20:31 <MoonTiger> i dont like not understanding my tools properly
May 29 20:20:39 * MohammadAG doesn't know auto* stuff
May 29 20:20:45 <MohammadAG> manual makefiles ftw
May 29 20:20:50 <cehteh> well i doubt anyone knows autotools fully :P
May 29 20:20:55 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, yah all that
May 29 20:21:16 <cehteh> if you only program for one platform (or very similar ones) then plain makefiles are nice
May 29 20:21:21 <MoonTiger> but trying to write a simple app requires all that configure.am and configure.in etc etc
May 29 20:21:36 <cehteh> if you can define to use 'gnu make' then you have quite some mightly stuff
May 29 20:21:37 <MohammadAG> when I see autoconf.in I just run all auto* tools and hope it works
May 29 20:21:40 <cityligh1s> MohammadAG: hi, did you that lardman offered to help port waze to maemo?
May 29 20:21:48 <MohammadAG> What's waze?
May 29 20:21:59 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, me too but when it doesnt you're screwed
May 29 20:22:17 <MoonTiger> waze is a crowd sourced gos navigator app
May 29 20:22:21 <MoonTiger> gps
May 29 20:22:25 <MohammadAG> MohammadAG, hasn't happened to me yet
May 29 20:22:25 <MohammadAG> wtf xchat
May 29 20:22:26 <cehteh> autotools is a bit awkward
May 29 20:22:47 <cityligh1s> waze.com road navigation with traffic jam calc
May 29 20:23:14 <MoonTiger> cehteh, th whole ./configure ... make ... make install is autotools yes?
May 29 20:23:24 <cehteh> thats a free project (waze?)
May 29 20:23:25 <cityligh1s> MoonTiger: how do YOU know waze?
May 29 20:23:43 <MoonTiger> cityligh1s, its on a lot of platforms and i read about a lot of stuff :)
May 29 20:23:45 <cityligh1s> yes!
May 29 20:23:51 <cehteh> MoonTiger: uhm ... thats what the user sees .. as developer there is shockingly much more brokeness
May 29 20:23:53 <MohammadAG> that's for israel?
May 29 20:24:13 <cityligh1s> recently also for germany
May 29 20:24:18 <cityligh1s> and the us
May 29 20:24:20 <MoonTiger> cehteh, do you know a good resource for learning as much as i need to know?
May 29 20:24:28 <cityligh1s> and australia
May 29 20:24:31 <cehteh> MoonTiger: take a look like nobug is set up, its a relative small and straight project so you can learn from that
May 29 20:24:39 <MoonTiger> ok thnx
May 29 20:24:44 <cehteh> and it uses 'non-recursive' builds thats really the way to go
May 29 20:24:48 <MohammadAG> cityligh1s, what does it offer that a normal maps app doesn't?
May 29 20:25:00 * MoonTiger ponders recursive builds and shdders
May 29 20:25:06 <cehteh> ('include' other files instead SUBDIRS=)
May 29 20:25:12 <cityligh1s> its free and updated by the users
May 29 20:25:18 <cehteh> the SUBDIRS= things is verboten :P
May 29 20:25:33 <MoonTiger> ok good ... trying to read that stuff is a nightmare
May 29 20:25:46 <cehteh> autotools is :)
May 29 20:25:55 <MohammadAG> cityligh1s, besides that? Google Maps is also free
May 29 20:25:55 <cehteh> and i am by no means expert with it
May 29 20:26:04 <cityligh1s> must find a nice place to have dinner and say good buy to munchen
May 29 20:26:20 <MoonTiger> cityligh1s, i havent had dinner in munich so i cant help
May 29 20:26:21 <MohammadAG> the site sends me to the hebrew version, doesn't help me
May 29 20:26:35 <cityligh1s> google maps doent offer traffic updates
May 29 20:26:40 <MoonTiger> cehteh, thnx for all the help
May 29 20:27:04 <cityligh1s> MohammadAG: use google translate
May 29 20:29:37 <MohammadAG> yay, API is in english
May 29 20:30:22 <cehteh> haha hebrew perl api ?
May 29 20:31:42 <telmich> wie heißt der film, in dem jemand zum geburtstag so einen realitätsabgleich geschenkt bekommt?
May 29 20:31:59 <cityligh1s> ha?
May 29 20:32:13 <telmich> und dann sich alles bei ihm im leben ändert und er zum schluß suizid beginnen muss
May 29 20:33:48 <cehteh> so bye cinema
May 29 20:45:10 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, CSSU Qt 4.7.0 with "some" fixes we need being uploaded
May 29 20:47:53 <merlin1991> MohammadAG: I want that package
May 29 20:47:55 <merlin1991> NAO ;)
May 29 20:55:55 <MohammadAG> merlin1991, uploading straight to CSSU
May 29 20:55:57 <MohammadAG> they take time
May 29 21:00:57 * MoonTiger just figured out the make clean thing
May 29 21:03:45 <lcuk> lol MoonTiger
May 29 21:04:03 <MoonTiger> seriously... its amazing what you learn when you rtfm
May 29 21:04:05 <dangergrrl> sigh
May 29 21:04:17 <MoonTiger> i never do ... i just jump in and start modifying code
May 29 21:04:25 <dangergrrl> i wish i had time to spend playing with code
May 29 21:04:25 <MoonTiger> never really learn the tools and such from basics
May 29 21:04:44 <MoonTiger> dangergrrl, i dont have a lot of time but my gf is away and its the weekend
May 29 21:04:45 <dangergrrl> i have to go try to lift an 800lb motorcycle instead
May 29 21:05:01 <dangergrrl> well, i will be able to in a day or two
May 29 21:05:12 <MoonTiger> :)
May 29 21:05:28 <dangergrrl> i have an oil leak and some superficial parts to mount
May 29 21:05:57 <dangergrrl> radiator shroud bottom cover etc
May 29 21:06:38 <dangergrrl> need to look at where the oil is leaking from
May 29 21:06:45 <MoonTiger> eeesh sounds like fun
May 29 21:06:51 <MoonTiger> what bike is it?
May 29 21:07:02 <MoonTiger> a harley right
May 29 21:07:03 <MoonTiger> ?
May 29 21:07:04 <dangergrrl> working on a gold wing is not fun
May 29 21:07:07 <MoonTiger> ahhh
May 29 21:07:18 <MoonTiger> the bike with a reverse gear
May 29 21:07:20 <MoonTiger> :)
May 29 21:07:22 <dangergrrl> they have plastic covering everything
May 29 21:07:34 <dangergrrl> i bet an electraglide would not be fun either
May 29 21:07:36 * MoonTiger now understand make install too
May 29 21:07:51 <MoonTiger> my last bike was a R1
May 29 21:07:52 <MoonTiger> :)
May 29 21:07:56 <dangergrrl> actually the starter motor runs the reverse on mine
May 29 21:08:01 <dangergrrl> the new ones have airbags
May 29 21:08:22 <MoonTiger> airbags? on a bike??
May 29 21:08:30 <dangergrrl> well, the plan is for some major touring
May 29 21:08:30 * MoonTiger goes back to makefiles
May 29 21:08:34 <MoonTiger> ahhhhh
May 29 21:08:36 <MoonTiger> where?
May 29 21:08:42 <dangergrrl> iǘe seen the crash test videos
May 29 21:08:45 <dangergrrl> they help
May 29 21:09:18 <dangergrrl> i think the canam spyder has engine powered reverse
May 29 21:09:38 <dangergrrl> but itś like auto transmission
May 29 21:09:52 <dangergrrl> so glad i did not get a 500cc vespa
May 29 21:10:08 <MoonTiger> do they make vespas at 500cc
May 29 21:10:10 <MoonTiger> ?
May 29 21:10:15 <dangergrrl> yes
May 29 21:10:24 <dangergrrl> still cvt
May 29 21:10:35 <dangergrrl> and flat floor in front of the seat
May 29 21:10:56 <dangergrrl> no shifting
May 29 21:11:06 <dangergrrl> but i bet they are still pretty fun
May 29 21:11:19 <MoonTiger> wouldnt work for me
May 29 21:11:24 <dangergrrl> not as fun as a bike with manual transmission
May 29 21:11:27 <MoonTiger> i like kicking up and down the gears
May 29 21:11:34 <dangergrrl> me too
May 29 21:11:44 <MoonTiger> i have the clutch mark on all my boots
May 29 21:11:46 <MoonTiger> :)
May 29 21:12:01 <dangergrrl> i tried a dirt bike on the streets around campus in college
May 29 21:12:16 <dangergrrl> fell and scraped the crap out of my ankle
May 29 21:12:17 <MoonTiger> a real dirt bike?
May 29 21:12:59 <MoonTiger> i rode one near moses lake in washington state for a day or two ... was real fun but scarey
May 29 21:13:11 <MoonTiger> they have some wicked dunes there
May 29 21:14:01 <dangergrrl> waited almost 30 years to ride again
May 29 21:14:05 <dangergrrl> got a dui that night on account of my banged up ankle and spinning my tired on a wet road at a stop light
May 29 21:14:05 <dangergrrl> tires
May 29 21:14:05 <dangergrrl> (in my car, not the dirt bike which was illegal on the streets)
May 29 21:14:07 <dangergrrl> i was sober tbh
May 29 21:14:08 <dangergrrl> but i had an empty vidka bottle in my back seat
May 29 21:14:30 <MoonTiger> america is so retarded for the open containe laws
May 29 21:14:31 <dangergrrl> well it was in houston we were riding it on roads near uni of houston
May 29 21:14:40 <MoonTiger> texas is even worse
May 29 21:14:58 <dangergrrl> texas open container outside a vehicle is legal
May 29 21:15:02 <dangergrrl> most cities
May 29 21:15:21 <dangergrrl> you can walk to 7-11 and buy a beer and drink it walking home
May 29 21:15:29 <MoonTiger> im glad i left there now :) back to the land(s) of the sane
May 29 21:15:35 <dangergrrl> but they nail people for public intoxication
May 29 21:15:47 <dangergrrl> sometimes just for being mexican
May 29 21:15:57 <dangergrrl> or gay or black
May 29 21:16:50 <dangergrrl> but they can charge anyone at any time for PI
May 29 21:17:09 <dangergrrl> my boots have a pad for the shifter
May 29 21:17:11 <MoonTiger> lcuk ... makefiles have recursive variables ffs!
May 29 21:17:35 <lcuk> MoonTiger, ?
May 29 21:17:40 <dangergrrl> isn'that normal?
May 29 21:17:48 <MoonTiger> they have recursive variables ... wtf?
May 29 21:18:01 <MoonTiger> i never heard of a recursive variable before
May 29 21:18:07 * MoonTiger shakes head
May 29 21:18:07 <dangergrrl> automake does that
May 29 21:18:20 <MoonTiger> thats what im learning
May 29 21:18:40 <dangergrrl> wait itś conditionally defined and recurses more than once?
May 29 21:19:45 <dangergrrl> what does meego use for init?
May 29 21:20:00 <dangergrrl> i know i saw upstart roll by in the maemo sdk
May 29 21:20:31 <DocScrutinizer> upstart aka initctl (?) for maemo, nfc about meego
May 29 21:20:46 <dangergrrl> systemd would give faster boot times
May 29 21:20:53 <wmarone> it does use systemd
May 29 21:20:55 <dangergrrl> but i think is a bad idea
May 29 21:21:02 <MoonTiger> christ ... jquery, php and now makefiles ... all using the $ *sigh*
May 29 21:21:09 <dangergrrl> so there are no shell scripts?
May 29 21:21:11 <DocScrutinizer> UUUAERGHH, it's a lennart poettering thing
May 29 21:21:19 <MoonTiger> this is fun ... lots of stuff is becoming clear
May 29 21:21:24 <wmarone> one sec
May 29 21:21:31 <wmarone> actually
May 29 21:21:39 <wmarone> 1.2 is on Upstart, going forward they're moving to systemd
May 29 21:21:46 <merlin1991> trunk is systemd already
May 29 21:21:49 <dangergrrl> bad
May 29 21:22:23 <dangergrrl> why not extend busybox instead?
May 29 21:22:34 <DocScrutinizer> only when there L.P. on the outside, you *know* there's ****inside ;-P
May 29 21:22:39 <dangergrrl> make it into initsh
May 29 21:22:39 <wmarone> because it's busybox
May 29 21:23:27 <dangergrrl> well systemd claims faster boot times
May 29 21:23:32 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer: were does your L.P. hate come from? :D
May 29 21:23:34 <dangergrrl> partially due to less forking
May 29 21:23:35 <DocScrutinizer> pffff
May 29 21:23:47 <DocScrutinizer> you're ASKING?
May 29 21:23:53 <merlin1991> yes
May 29 21:23:57 <dangergrrl> we can have less forking in sh scripts if we put more in busybox
May 29 21:24:12 <andre__> DocScrutinizer, I'm very sorry for you that your pulseaudio integration was screwed up by the packager of your distribution and that you know target the wrong person for your problems. Not.
May 29 21:24:17 <DocScrutinizer> pukeaudio: L.P.    avahi: L.P.   systemd: L.P.
May 29 21:24:33 <wmarone> dangergrrl: one of the main things with meego is moving away from busybox (and all of its crippled facilities)
May 29 21:25:03 <dangergrrl> but why not turn busybox or even ash or gads bash
May 29 21:25:08 <dangergrrl> into initsh
May 29 21:25:21 <DocScrutinizer> andre__: PA been screwed up on every system I've seen so far, INCL maemo
May 29 21:25:26 <wmarone> what's bad about systemd, anyway?
May 29 21:25:32 <dangergrrl> and integrate most of the things that init needs
May 29 21:25:35 <DocScrutinizer> NIH shit
May 29 21:25:36 <andre__> DocScrutinizer, not really. :)
May 29 21:25:54 <dangergrrl> wmarone: booting is no longer hackable using traditional unix skills
May 29 21:25:55 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer: i see the point about pa, have nfc about avahi, but don't see why systemd is evil
May 29 21:26:14 <dangergrrl> init is very simple
May 29 21:26:27 <DocScrutinizer> why do we need systemd when we can improve/augment upstart?
May 29 21:26:29 <dangergrrl> all of booting is configurable by editing text files
May 29 21:26:53 <dangergrrl> most of it is implemented in text files
May 29 21:27:05 <DocScrutinizer> why do we need PA while ALSA just works fine
May 29 21:27:09 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: same reason as PA
May 29 21:27:12 <dangergrrl> why not find ways to make that faster without changing itś face?
May 29 21:27:20 <DocScrutinizer> and WTF do we need avahi for at all?
May 29 21:27:39 <andre__> yes, and why don't we just stay in the 70es and want no progress at all? why this internet thingy at all?
May 29 21:27:55 <DocScrutinizer> BS
May 29 21:27:57 <andre__> letters also worked fine for me! I don't need this for my limited usecases!
May 29 21:28:20 <DocScrutinizer> ALSA is evidently *better* than PA
May 29 21:28:21 <dangergrrl> i have not come up against avahi
May 29 21:28:25 <jacekowski> pulseaudio has less features than alsa
May 29 21:28:26 <andre__> assuming that BS refers to what you've written: cool that you realize
May 29 21:28:29 <jacekowski> and it's slower
May 29 21:28:39 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: exactly
May 29 21:28:44 <dangergrrl> pulseaudio has not given my trouble on the n900
May 29 21:28:45 <jacekowski> it's just a buggy fucked up frontend for alsa
May 29 21:28:50 <dangergrrl> on my pc it fails a lot
May 29 21:28:57 <jacekowski> dangergrrl: except using up 50% of cpu
May 29 21:29:14 <dangergrrl> jacekowski: haven't caught that
May 29 21:29:20 <andre__> "DVDs have this default disclaimer at the beginning. I can't skip that by fast forward! That's why I prefer VHS tapes!"
May 29 21:29:22 <andre__> oh yesh.
May 29 21:29:36 <DocScrutinizer> since avahi I got issues on my networks I never had vefore, while I've never seen any benefit
May 29 21:29:44 <dangergrrl> jacekowski: on my pc it starts giving my audio odd harmonics after a while
May 29 21:29:46 <DocScrutinizer> and for systemd... ohmy
May 29 21:29:52 <dangergrrl> and it gets worse with time
May 29 21:30:06 <dangergrrl> i read the paper on systemd
May 29 21:30:06 <jacekowski> andre__: dvd has some measurable quality improvements
May 29 21:30:08 <nox-> andre__, http://www.geekologie.com/image.php?path=/2010/02/25/piracy-full.jpg
May 29 21:30:21 <jacekowski> andre__: pa is based on same alsa
May 29 21:30:23 <andre__> nox-, hehe, had that one in mind, yes :)
May 29 21:30:23 <dangergrrl> i think he answers many of the right questions the wrong way
May 29 21:30:28 <jacekowski> andre__: and it's just another layer of complexity
May 29 21:30:33 <nox-> andre__, :)
May 29 21:30:54 <andre__> jacekowski, well... that's very generalizing and partially wrong
May 29 21:31:01 <dangergrrl> so
May 29 21:31:13 <dangergrrl> i am about to have only a n900 to work on for a while
May 29 21:31:53 <dangergrrl> it it possible to make a user maintained maemo+upstart for >1.2?
May 29 21:31:55 <jacekowski> andre__: name one thing that PA is giving me or anybody
May 29 21:32:00 <jacekowski> andre__: that alsa couldn't
May 29 21:32:16 <dangergrrl> jacekowski: redirection over ip
May 29 21:32:17 <jacekowski> positive thing to be precise
May 29 21:32:22 <jacekowski> alsa can do that
May 29 21:32:24 <DocScrutinizer> audio over TCP ;-P
May 29 21:32:27 <dangergrrl> but i can not get it to work
May 29 21:32:38 <jacekowski> dangergrrl: alsa has drivers for that as well
May 29 21:32:39 <dangergrrl> alsa can do tcp by itself?
May 29 21:32:42 <jacekowski> yes
May 29 21:33:01 <dangergrrl> then what does pulse do besides break?
May 29 21:33:12 <DocScrutinizer> also, do you think more tha 0.0001% of users need this?
May 29 21:33:22 <jacekowski> there is virtual sound card driver
May 29 21:33:27 <jacekowski> that does that and some other stuff
May 29 21:33:39 <andre__> jacekowski, errm, e.g. applications that don't block the audio hardware anymore? (except for crappy closed flash maybe)
May 29 21:34:10 <jacekowski> andre__: emm
May 29 21:34:14 <jacekowski> andre__: alsa does that as well
May 29 21:35:03 <DocScrutinizer> and always did
May 29 21:35:15 <andre__> that's news to me compared to last time I checked this whole PA debate (probably a year ago)
May 29 21:35:36 <DocScrutinizer> that's been news to L.P. as well
May 29 21:36:33 <jacekowski> andre__: dmix was added to alsa in 1999
May 29 21:37:26 <DocScrutinizer> BUT BUT, PA can do >>per app volume<< pffff http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/message/1731
May 29 21:37:40 <andre__> ah, since alsa 1.0.9
May 29 21:37:56 <DocScrutinizer> WUT?
May 29 21:37:56 <jacekowski> andre__: no
May 29 21:38:02 <jacekowski> andre__: since alsa 0.0.9
May 29 21:38:14 <jacekowski> andre__: for 12 years now
May 29 21:38:18 <andre__> "For ALSA 1.0.9rc2 and higher you don't need to setup dmix for analogue output"
May 29 21:38:21 <andre__> according to http://alsa.opensrc.org/Dmix
May 29 21:38:37 <DocScrutinizer> yeah hoe TERRIBLE
May 29 21:38:43 <andre__> DocScrutinizer, +1
May 29 21:38:57 <DocScrutinizer> before you had to get a def for dmix in /etc/asoundrc
May 29 21:39:00 <dangergrrl> alsa can not do per app mixing?
May 29 21:39:09 <jacekowski> andre__: since 1.0.9rc2 dmix is enabled by default
May 29 21:39:12 <DocScrutinizer> UNBEARABLE
May 29 21:39:13 <jacekowski> dangergrrl: yes it can
May 29 21:39:32 <DocScrutinizer> dangergrrl: see my link!!
May 29 21:39:35 <dangergrrl> then why does anyone need pulse?
May 29 21:39:47 <DocScrutinizer> nobody needs this sh*t
May 29 21:39:57 <jacekowski> dangergrrl: nobody needs it
May 29 21:40:01 <jacekowski> dangergrrl: that's the thing
May 29 21:40:02 <andre__> I like it.
May 29 21:40:46 <dangergrrl> then i suppose i am running gentoo with the sabayon overlay and USE=-pulse then
May 29 21:40:53 <dangergrrl> when i find the bandwidth
May 29 21:42:24 <DocScrutinizer> ok, when "I like it" was the last argument for PA, then
May 29 21:42:29 <DocScrutinizer> done, what's next
May 29 21:42:44 <jacekowski> and besides, pulse forces you to do software mixing even if your HW can do HW mixing
May 29 21:42:58 <jacekowski> and my sound blaster can do full HW mixing
May 29 21:43:27 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: good point
May 29 21:43:29 <andre__> DocScrutinizer: I consider "I like it" slightly less childish and more argumentative then kids writing "nobody needs this sh*t"
May 29 21:44:31 <DocScrutinizer> well, bot is a statement. The relative relevance for the world though is obviously different
May 29 21:44:37 <DocScrutinizer> both*
May 29 21:45:10 <andre__> hehe, agreed :)
May 29 21:45:34 <DocScrutinizer> and thanks for "kids", I'm feeling miuch younger now, I can use it :-D
May 29 21:45:42 <andre__> haha
May 29 21:45:50 <andre__> you're welcome :)
May 29 21:47:37 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, you've got PM
May 29 21:48:19 <dangergrrl> lol
May 29 21:48:36 <dangergrrl> i somehow doubt DocScrutinizer is a kid
May 29 21:48:59 <dangergrrl> sorry
May 29 21:49:22 <dangergrrl> i do not know for sure but if he is then like WOW
May 29 21:52:47 <jacekowski> afaik he's more like 40ish
May 29 21:54:08 <dangergrrl> i guessed that actually
May 29 22:09:40 <MoonTiger> do pp; really write these makefiles by hand??
May 29 22:13:56 <MoonTiger> lcuk, you still here?
May 29 22:17:50 <MohammadAG> MoonTiger, simple ones, yes
May 29 22:18:36 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, it makes sense now that i look at how they are made ... and the integration of pkg-confg means you dont need to mess with inc and lib paths right?
May 29 22:18:48 <MohammadAG> yep
May 29 22:18:55 <MoonTiger> wow that is sweet
May 29 22:19:02 <MoonTiger> i think i can get the hang of this
May 29 22:19:32 <MohammadAG> :D
May 29 22:19:46 <MoonTiger> heh i know right? welcome to the 1990's party moon
May 29 22:19:48 <MoonTiger> :)
May 29 22:25:31 <lcuk> MoonTiger, i am thinking
May 29 22:35:10 <merlin1991> anyone else in here thinking R&D means research and destroy?
May 29 22:35:44 <SpeedEvil> ?
May 29 22:36:37 <merlin1991> SpeedEvil: R&D mode on the device, some sources say that's research and develop mode, but imo it's research and destroy :P
May 29 22:36:38 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!
May 29 22:36:52 <SpeedEvil> Ah
May 29 22:37:47 <DocScrutinizer> repent&desist
May 29 22:40:26 <MoonTiger> night all :)
May 29 22:40:33 <DocScrutinizer> o/
May 29 22:40:36 <NIN101> I love the read poettering bashing
May 29 22:43:23 <cityligh1s> where to find morning breakfast open at 7?
May 29 22:43:37 <cityligh1s> how can I even ask google?
May 29 22:44:23 <DocScrutinizer> here. If it were 7o here. Alas it's shortly after midnight and I'll have a hard time finding breakfast *now*
May 29 22:45:00 <DocScrutinizer> nevertheless I have to try... o/
May 29 22:45:15 <cityligh1s> well as you maybe from munchen...
May 29 22:46:24 <cityligh1s> s/maybe/may ba/
May 29 22:46:25 <infobot> cityligh1s meant: well as you may ba from munchen...
May 29 22:48:00 <compengi> does anyone use maemo sdk on ubuntu 11.04 64bit?
May 29 22:48:18 * MohammadAG raises hand
May 29 22:48:58 <compengi> MohammadAG, how did you install it?
May 29 22:55:08 <MohammadAG> compengi, carried it over from Ubuntu 10.10, why?
May 29 22:55:21 <MohammadAG> I installed it on some other PC running Natty iirc
May 29 22:58:31 <Macer> MohammadAG: i couldn't get it working in natty
May 29 22:58:52 <MohammadAG> what errors did you get?
May 29 22:59:06 <Macer> i dont remember... i just use the vm
May 29 22:59:20 <Macer> which runs an ancient ver of ubuntu
May 29 22:59:50 <MohammadAG> 8.10 I think
May 29 22:59:51 <Macer> the sdk needs to be fixed... can the cssu people fix it?
May 29 22:59:54 <Macer> :)
May 29 23:00:13 <MohammadAG> can't fix it if I don't know what's broken
May 29 23:00:27 <MohammadAG> I mean, it works fine for me, and I guided a friend through it the other day and it worked
May 29 23:00:38 <Macer> updating the install scripts for more modern linux would help
May 29 23:01:48 <Macer> MohammadAG: do you have a wiki on how to do it?
May 29 23:01:58 <MohammadAG> ~maemosdk
May 29 23:01:59 <infobot> methinks maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation
May 29 23:02:31 <Macer> tried that. install script doesnt work
May 29 23:02:43 <Macer> keeps dying out when newgrp
May 29 23:02:52 <MohammadAG> the script or the GUI?
May 29 23:02:53 <Macer> and then it tries to do the pkg install
May 29 23:02:57 <Macer> the script
May 29 23:03:09 <Macer> dpkg always gives out errors
May 29 23:03:23 <Macer> it downloads the debs
May 29 23:03:37 <Macer> then tries to install and gives a million dep errors
May 29 23:03:48 <MohammadAG> sudo error I guess
May 29 23:03:57 <MohammadAG> sudoers/visudo
May 29 23:04:08 <MohammadAG> I remember that on 10.04 but not 11.04
May 29 23:04:18 <Macer> the user i am installing for is in sudoers
May 29 23:05:14 <Macer> but yeah... that is the problem i am having installing on my natty box so i use the vm
May 29 23:05:26 <Macer> i need to learn how to make debs
May 29 23:05:50 <Macer> but i kind of lost my thunder for it all as i felt like pulling out my teeth with installing the sdk
May 29 23:06:03 <Macer> not to mention using a vm hinders the speed
May 29 23:07:42 <MohammadAG> Macer, no, I meant the problem is related to sudoers in scratchbox
May 29 23:08:00 <Macer> oh
May 29 23:08:28 <Macer> well.. once the script goes.. it goes
May 29 23:08:41 <Macer> the target is created and it goes on auto pilot
May 29 23:09:38 <Macer> so am i supposed to finish with the error and go into the sb target and fix /etc/sudoers and try to apt-get everything?
May 29 23:10:32 <Macer> well... that is what needs fixing ;)
May 29 23:10:35 <Macer> heh
May 29 23:10:36 <Macer> bbl
May 29 23:16:56 <MohammadAG> Macer, no, you should fix that before the script even starts
May 30 00:59:13 <cehteh> find: unrecognized: -exec
May 30 00:59:19 <cehteh> busybox crap
May 30 01:01:19 <merlin1991> ~messybox
May 30 01:01:19 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
May 30 01:01:21 <merlin1991> :D
May 30 01:01:30 <cehteh> yesyes
May 30 02:26:19 <Macer> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1147415
May 30 02:33:09 * SpeedEvil posts 'where can I download the linux 3 kernel with android support' on TMO.
May 30 02:35:29 <DocScrutinizer> yo
May 30 02:36:30 <DocScrutinizer> apt-get install findutils-gnu
May 30 02:37:11 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# echo $PATH
May 30 02:37:13 <DocScrutinizer> /usr/bin/gnu:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11
May 30 02:37:43 <DocScrutinizer> WTF
May 30 02:37:53 <DocScrutinizer> FTW
May 30 02:37:59 <DocScrutinizer> ;-P
May 30 02:39:32 * DocScrutinizer idly ponders /usr/local optification
May 30 02:41:47 <DocScrutinizer> also general optification sanitizing:
May 30 02:41:51 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# ls -l /usr/bin/gnu/|wc -l
May 30 02:41:53 <DocScrutinizer> 119
May 30 02:41:54 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# ls -l /usr/bin/gnu/|grep lrwx|wc -l
May 30 02:41:56 <DocScrutinizer> 113
May 30 02:42:57 <DocScrutinizer> .
May 30 02:43:01 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# ls -l /usr/bin/gnu/|grep -v lrwx
May 30 02:43:02 <DocScrutinizer> insgesamt 124
May 30 02:43:04 <DocScrutinizer> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 18680 2010-04-21 12:14 cmp
May 30 02:43:05 <DocScrutinizer> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 61316 2010-04-21 12:14 diff
May 30 02:43:07 <DocScrutinizer> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 18960 2010-04-21 12:14 diff3
May 30 02:43:08 <DocScrutinizer> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root    43 2010-03-19 22:50 rgrep
May 30 02:43:10 <DocScrutinizer> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 18204 2010-04-21 12:14 sdiff
May 30 02:43:51 <DocScrutinizer> .
May 30 02:43:57 <DocScrutinizer> that's *sick*
May 30 02:44:51 <DocScrutinizer> ~optification
May 30 02:44:52 <infobot> methinks optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3
May 30 02:49:23 <DocScrutinizer> ~optification
May 30 02:49:23 <infobot> from memory, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3
May 30 02:54:50 <DocScrutinizer> you really should have a look at http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 - how can it be Nokia managed to put binaries into /usr/bin that are clearly needed *before* /usr gets mounted, and then - instead of doing the right thing and just move the binary from /usr/bin to /bin - they come up with this optification abomination ""because we need some of the binaries of /usr/bin to exist on rootfs"" ::mad::
May 30 02:56:08 <DocScrutinizer> it the most nobe duty of a distro maintainer to sort such things out in a *sane* way
May 30 02:56:15 <DocScrutinizer> noble*
May 30 02:58:44 <DocScrutinizer> not to go "ohmy, developer of foo pkg decided to install it to /usr/bin/foo. We need it during boot, so let's invent this optification chimera crack nightmare
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 30 02:59:59 2011