**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 10 02:59:57 2011 Jun 10 03:29:58 ~chaninfo Jun 10 03:29:58 I'm on 115 channels: #debian/1052, #meego/429, #kde/328, #maemo/320, #gsoc/244, #asterisk/206, #oe/151, #wowuidev/142, #wowace/140, #wowhead/129, #webos-internals/111, #openmoko/100, #htc-linux/83, #openmoko-cdevel/77, #bzflag/69, #utah/68, #tomcat/59, #curseforge/53, #uclibc/51, #asterisk-dev/50, #edev/50, #sc2mapster/49, #slug/45, #elinux/34, #norganna/30, #gllug/29, #/28, #utos/27, #asterisk-bugs/26, #brlcad/26, #buglabs/25, ##kierra/24, ... Jun 10 03:29:58 i've cached 4757 users, 3496 unique users, distributed over 115 channels. Jun 10 03:30:06 ~uptime Jun 10 04:03:16 G'day everyone. Jun 10 05:35:04 my n900 lives once more! Jun 10 06:05:30 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/10/automatic_device_driver_synthesis/ Jun 10 06:20:29 hey chanserv Jun 10 06:20:36 are you the admin here ? Jun 10 06:21:48 i need to confirm something Jun 10 06:21:49 :$ Jun 10 06:26:27 Well. Moo. Jun 10 07:16:41 MohammadAG, hey Venemo said you used q-extras notification in some app, could you tell me which one so I can use it as an example? Jun 10 09:23:37 frals: hey mister! fmms should respect the general roaming settings? I have always allowed it but still fmms keeps asking about it and thus won't automatically fetch my mms :( Jun 10 09:27:48 damn, it's hot in here. des Finlandes Jun 10 09:28:33 as we say: "this is no weather for white man" Jun 10 09:40:59 whee, got my patch accepted into easy-chroot Jun 10 09:41:51 morning Jun 10 09:42:25 ohai lardman Jun 10 09:43:14 hi Hurrian Jun 10 09:56:33 hello Jun 10 09:56:49 how can I purge exif data from images? Jun 10 10:41:06 hmm, could really do with a time & location triggered way of changing whether auto connect to the network is enabled Jun 10 10:41:24 otherwise my phone keeps pinging at me as it reconnects overnight sat on my bedside table Jun 10 10:58:47 lardman: Yeah :-( Jun 10 10:59:02 lardman: A really good time/location framework would be very useful Jun 10 10:59:43 something I'd be tempted to do, if I knew what the next step in the overall masterplan was Jun 10 11:06:29 i think the masterplan was "always online" Jun 10 11:10:05 is there a masterplan? Jun 10 11:10:15 * lcuk has been taking notes if there was Jun 10 11:18:05 nah I meant hardware-wise Jun 10 11:18:55 whether it's worth investing time in a platform which will move to Meego perhaps, or may all succumb to usb port failure before too long Jun 10 11:19:06 that sort of masterplan Jun 10 11:19:39 but yeah, it was supposed to be always on, that's fair enough, it's just that the noises are bloody annoying if your net connection drops while you're aslee Jun 10 11:19:40 p Jun 10 11:19:45 lardman: Some kind of Qt Mobility-based app with a QML UI and a powerful pluggable engine should do Jun 10 11:20:05 lardman: Or, you're on hotel free wifi which times out whilst you're asleep Jun 10 11:20:09 * lardman has no desire to use QML for things that don't need a ui Jun 10 11:20:18 Jaffa: exactly Jun 10 11:20:30 I guess a daemon is the best bet, with some sort of control panel control Jun 10 11:20:34 lardman: Well, something needs to be configurable Jun 10 11:20:42 I might code something up if I get bored over the weekend Jun 10 11:20:44 lardman: Trouble with Control Panel is you end up being OS-specific Jun 10 11:20:58 lardman: But daemon, which won't drain power, would be good. Jun 10 11:21:17 lardman: e.g. configurable liblocation level so cell-tower positioning or wifi is enough Jun 10 11:21:20 yeah, but as long as the control panel applet is separate from the daemon, and you know the way to change the settings Jun 10 11:21:26 I see what you mean though Jun 10 11:21:54 definitely, would be a very power conscious daemon Jun 10 11:22:03 * chem|st requested clearance for removal of distracting members from tmo Jun 10 11:23:00 Jaffa: I'd guess that just using cell ids would be enough for most people, and if people need more accuracy one would use the cell id to trigger the gps to switch on for the accuracy Jun 10 11:23:28 would have to maintain an offline cell tower id list though, or at least download the relevant ones when some condition is set Jun 10 11:27:12 bb in 5h Jun 10 11:27:15 completely different topic - I was standing in the bank yesterday waiting behind some chap who was trying to show some details on his iPad to the cashier, and I thought that NFC and a standard file format would be quite useful for passing document snippets between people Jun 10 11:27:21 cu MohammadAG Jun 10 11:28:40 lardman: what about BT? Jun 10 11:28:58 I guess that could stand in Jun 10 11:29:21 NFC is closer though, which would mean you'd have fewer devices showing up for you to decide which to connect to Jun 10 11:29:25 and you do not have to hold the devices against each other... the same room is just enough Jun 10 11:29:48 makes it hard to know who is who though, but yeah the same system could go ontop Jun 10 11:30:35 a blank secure connection protocol could help that Jun 10 11:31:12 ? Jun 10 11:31:20 and to not connect to the wrong you could gen random pins Jun 10 11:31:36 sure, but you still need to pick the right one from a list Jun 10 11:31:42 I was thinking of it "just working" Jun 10 11:32:06 BT stack got no secured connection prot you can pan and tunnel Jun 10 11:32:16 Anyone struggling to use the N900 as an USB-modem? Jun 10 11:32:34 phellarv: plugin -> use Jun 10 11:32:39 Phonet unknown PEP type :1 Jun 10 11:33:10 umm vague? Jun 10 11:33:23 which host OS? Jun 10 11:33:28 chem|st: Please fell free to elaborate. Jun 10 11:33:38 psycho_oreos: Natty Narval Jun 10 11:33:51 lardman: what about qr-code implementation for something like this Jun 10 11:34:02 yep that's a definite possibility Jun 10 11:34:14 anyway was just a random thought Jun 10 11:34:40 so the program opens cam for connectiing and not a connection dialogue Jun 10 11:34:41 I'd also quite like to be able to flick documents in the right direction a la CSI wall screens and have them arrive elsewhere :) Jun 10 11:34:42 psycho_oreos: Power-kernel v47 and CSSU Jun 10 11:34:45 phellarv, that's more like a linux distribution but meh, I've never really have issues using N900 as a USB wireless broadband modem, though I get messages like that along with others appearing in dmesg all the time Jun 10 11:34:53 perhaps I should talk to lcuk about adding such a feature to liq* Jun 10 11:34:54 lardman: no, stay with it! it is a very good idea Jun 10 11:35:27 psycho_oreos: What do you use as tethering software? Script? Jun 10 11:35:29 lardman: g-speak? Jun 10 11:35:51 chem|st: what's that? Jun 10 11:36:08 phellarv, nah networkmanager, though it may also work if I tried umtsmon as well Jun 10 11:36:10 pardon lardman ? Jun 10 11:36:36 lcuk: just some random ideas :) Jun 10 11:36:50 lardman: you know the police's data terminal from minority report (movie) Jun 10 11:37:00 ah yeah Jun 10 11:37:10 that thing is real! Jun 10 11:37:22 the flicking in the right direction is difficult though as location accuracy is too low Jun 10 11:37:26 plus we lack a compass Jun 10 11:37:35 lardman, I am distracted by many things in meego atm Jun 10 11:38:12 lcuk: tbh I'm bored of trying to make things work, I'd just like to make some end-user apps work Jun 10 11:38:15 lardman: http://oblong.com/ Jun 10 11:38:25 lardman, yeah I know that feeling Jun 10 11:38:32 messing about with bootloaders and kernel initramfs is rapidly losing its appeal Jun 10 11:38:38 * lcuk nods Jun 10 11:38:39 chem|st: /me looks Jun 10 11:38:48 the guy inventing it got famous with minority report and was able to start business Jun 10 11:38:52 yay, ice-cream truck ! Jun 10 11:38:52 that is why I am pushing for default simple usecases on n900-CE Jun 10 11:39:03 (I adore that new name for the meego community stuff :) Jun 10 11:39:33 chem|st: cool, I'll have a watch of the vid once I've finished messing about with these pics for a report Jun 10 11:40:24 with that said, the location/time scheduler is something I will have a crack at this weekend Jun 10 11:40:53 just think of all the minutes over the year I'll save not needing to go to control panel > internet connections to switch on/off the auto connection time ;) Jun 10 11:42:35 lardman, :) good idea Jun 10 11:42:53 fiferboy has experience also with making desktop widget / apps Jun 10 11:43:02 so you could talk to him about the gui bit for it Jun 10 11:43:09 to perhaps have an override button on desktop Jun 10 11:43:24 (if maemo related of course) Jun 10 11:43:27 GUI? nah, command line control of the daemon ;) Jun 10 11:43:49 yeah is Maemo related, or Meego, or at leasrt something portable (device and sw) Jun 10 11:53:38 chem|st: interesting video, shame they don't say how it works Jun 10 11:55:39 Scelt: doh, it just checks if its roaming or not actually, not what the user setting for it is Jun 10 11:56:04 frals: yeah but it should. pretty annoying to download manually all the mms Jun 10 11:56:37 yeah, didnt even think of it tbh Jun 10 11:57:00 someone at work complained about no roaming warning so i just added that Jun 10 11:57:08 yeah :) Jun 10 11:57:17 bah, flight about to take off, flight mode time i guess Jun 10 11:57:20 o/ Jun 10 11:57:49 bye Jun 10 12:08:34 * lardman heads home to start wotk on the location daemon thingie, bbiab Jun 10 12:35:41 any of you guys know how to check the firmware version you are running (N900) without relying on Settings > About Product ? Jun 10 12:38:28 *#000#? Jun 10 12:38:52 *#0000# Jun 10 12:39:21 ah yes, missed a 0 Jun 10 12:40:05 odd, the n900 doesn't have all the starhashes of the symbian phones Jun 10 12:40:27 bah apart from that :D Jun 10 12:40:44 trying to find a way through the command line/console so to speak Jun 10 12:40:47 yeah, for exmaple no *#7370# Jun 10 12:40:51 which resets the phone Jun 10 12:41:52 and there were a few clock lock mods Jun 10 12:51:42 goes back to the age old saying,`N900 is not a phone, it is a computer with phone capability added to it' Jun 10 12:52:09 psycho_oreos, run osso-product-info in an xterm Jun 10 12:52:44 mgedmin, thanks! Jun 10 12:56:28 need help with nitdroid Jun 10 12:56:35 have the latest version of rootsh Jun 10 12:56:54 however, nitdroid-installer gives a message saying this: Jun 10 12:57:05 Depends: rootsh (>= 1.8) but 1.5 is to be installed Jun 10 12:58:26 don't use nitdroid-installer Jun 10 12:58:31 download the tarball Jun 10 12:58:37 partition the uSD card Jun 10 12:58:57 format it ext4 Jun 10 12:58:59 *ext3 Jun 10 12:59:13 mount to /and, untar N12 Jun 10 12:59:21 install nitdroid-kernel Jun 10 12:59:25 reboot Jun 10 12:59:52 may i pls have the link to that tarball? Jun 10 13:00:28 ~rape quentin Jun 10 13:00:28 http://downloads.nitdroid.com/e-yes/N12_UMay.tar.bz2 Jun 10 13:00:29 * infobot takes quentin behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams Jun 10 13:01:25 cool i'll chk it out Jun 10 13:02:15 int main( int argc, const char* argv [] ) { printf( "\nNo raping on IRC!\n\n" ); } Jun 10 13:02:55 ~nuke roman Jun 10 13:02:56 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at roman ... B☢☢M! Jun 10 13:11:25 re Jun 10 13:20:59 how do I share a document in Google Docs? Jun 10 13:21:17 am writing down conditions and actions for the location/time/etc daemon Jun 10 13:25:49 lardman, in teh top right there's a button that says share Jun 10 13:42:06 ah, thanks KMFDM Jun 10 13:42:31 and how would I allow public access? Jun 10 13:43:21 lardman, share>sharing settings Jun 10 13:43:31 at the top where it presumably says private Jun 10 13:43:32 select change Jun 10 13:43:35 and make it public Jun 10 13:44:22 thanks Jun 10 13:44:23 https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai6d6M5t99WJdGJ4dEpLbk1YVkpheEJ2ZzQ0OGZkS0E&hl=en_GB&authkey=CNH4-KAF Jun 10 13:45:32 lardman, you are making a state table Jun 10 13:45:40 yes, basically Jun 10 13:45:59 I was thinking a state editor with boolean operators and some action that should then be performed Jun 10 13:46:00 it seems large enough to become a banquet! Jun 10 13:46:21 lardman, do you intend for this to be scriptable? Jun 10 13:46:48 yes, for there to be an editor in which people can add their own combinations of states + actions Jun 10 13:46:55 also have pluggable actions Jun 10 13:47:32 lardman, Jun 10 13:47:39 have you used parental controls on windows 7? Jun 10 13:47:54 nope Jun 10 13:47:58 it has a nice grid that you can assign allowed/not allowed to use the computer Jun 10 13:48:08 very simple ui but easy enough Jun 10 13:48:22 based on hours of the week Jun 10 13:48:39 if you have just a few primary states you can colour in easily Jun 10 13:48:50 without needing a mathematical formula Jun 10 13:48:52 just a mo Jun 10 13:49:13 yeah I understand Jun 10 13:49:25 http://img.ampercent.com/post/set-up-time-limits-parental-controls.png Jun 10 13:49:35 well you can change the ui, but the underlying structure must be based on something more fundamental Jun 10 13:49:43 similar to other things of course, but that is the case I see yours closest to Jun 10 13:50:21 easy to convert that to a bunch of state + actions Jun 10 13:50:36 the issue I do see is mutually conflicting state changes Jun 10 13:50:40 nod Jun 10 13:50:43 will have to have priorities established too Jun 10 13:51:57 yeah Jun 10 13:54:58 There is one of these for another platform. Hmm, what is it. Maybe for Android - may be something to get inspiration from or, if nothign else, avoid Jun 10 13:57:47 sure, if anyone can think of the name that would be useful Jun 10 14:04:11 Android app called "Near to there" which gives you a reminder when you get close to somewhere Jun 10 14:04:16 http://www.near2there.com/index.aspx Jun 10 14:04:48 I've no desire to implement this directly, but it could work ontop of this daemon with e.g.a within X m of location then run some app to display message Jun 10 14:05:51 http://forums.precentral.net/hedami/217570-geostrings-location-based-reminders.html is another view, location based task reminders Jun 10 14:05:57 again could be built ontop Jun 10 14:06:18 I'll need an api for other apps to add and remove and check the rules that are currently set in that case Jun 10 14:06:21 * lardman adds that to the list Jun 10 14:07:32 http://www.appbrain.com/app/llama-location-profiles/com.kebab.Llama Jun 10 14:07:43 might be closer to what we were originally thinking of Jun 10 14:09:39 wiki page might be better than a spreadsheet me thinks Jun 10 14:10:37 anyone got any ideas for a cool name? Jun 10 14:11:25 Proximus Jun 10 14:11:37 Mix of "proximity" and "tempus" - the original use cases Jun 10 14:11:37 Proximus Min Jun 10 14:12:36 tempox ;) Jun 10 14:12:56 probably needs an r in there Jun 10 14:13:00 :D can go roller skating in white shorts Jun 10 14:13:00 temprox Jun 10 14:13:45 anyway good call Jaffa, proximus sounds good Jun 10 14:13:48 tempox also sounds like something that alarms once a month. Jun 10 14:13:53 I'll create a wiki page Jun 10 14:14:04 SpeedEvil: yeah, I thought it sounded sort of nasty Jun 10 14:14:41 it is far from nasty, it is the time when ladies go swimming and do sports activities Jun 10 14:14:56 don't you watch the adverts? Jun 10 14:15:05 Watersports too. Jun 10 14:15:18 * lcuk never understood why they could only do these things once a month Jun 10 14:16:12 lcuk: Natural law. Jun 10 14:16:22 They could tell us, but they'd have to kill us. Jun 10 14:16:25 thanks all by the way Jun 10 14:16:25 * SpeedEvil remembers the Natural Law party. Jun 10 14:16:35 I now have the bodyform advert song in my head :| Jun 10 14:23:57 fuck Jun 10 14:24:08 i was working on a freerdp/remmina port for a while Jun 10 14:24:12 then someone else does it Jun 10 14:25:38 oh looks like he only did freerdp Jun 10 14:25:44 remmina is still fair game Jun 10 14:26:28 http://wiki.maemo.org/Proximus Jun 10 14:33:22 MohammadAG, ping Jun 10 14:33:34 lardman: Cool. Jun 10 14:34:37 Does debian/optify handle python modules installations? Jun 10 14:35:43 divan: If your Python modules go into the right place, they are already in an optified volume Jun 10 14:35:54 divan: Python makes /usr/lib/python (and a few other places) optified Jun 10 14:36:00 Jaffa, ah, right. Thanks. Jun 10 14:36:04 divan: You can see them by typing "mount" in X Terminal Jun 10 14:51:37 so what do we think about implementation, I guess fork is not the thing to do in Qt? ;) Jun 10 14:51:44 QtService? Jun 10 14:58:32 lardman: Filled in a gap in the Proximus spec - and proposed some syntax. Once you've got syntax the rest of the design can be derived :) Jun 10 14:58:57 cool, /me looks now Jun 10 15:01:24 lardman: The engine's going to have to be quite smart about when push events (e.g. timers or dbus signals) might contribute to trigerring a rule Jun 10 15:01:37 lardman: It's basically an inference engine like JBoss Drools Jun 10 15:02:47 psycho_oreos: the BB5 RAPUYAMA "modem" in N900 however is a mature phone chip(set) used in several *phones* of Nokia Jun 10 15:03:31 psycho_oreos: so there's no excuse for N900 not supporting *full* functionset of those Jun 10 15:04:54 except obvious things like "reset all to factory: **1570*yes#" or similar foo, as that'd need the modem controlling the APE, which is definitely sth nobody wants to have Jun 10 15:05:48 Lenovo's UEFI can't actually boot GPT. What a surprise. Jun 10 15:06:01 incredible Jun 10 15:06:52 still thinking UEFI was meant for booting GPT, and MBR/partitiontab was just a legacy extension Jun 10 15:09:18 DocScrutinizer, in terms of software standards, maemo however is really half baked if anything Jun 10 15:09:39 maybe you have to code the msdos loader extension in UEFI yourself, in fourth Jun 10 15:09:40 'course Lenovo vehemently claims it does. Jun 10 15:10:10 This is why I'm still primarily a consumer of Apple hardware. Jun 10 15:10:31 * GeneralAntilles is not a fan of dicking around with this shit. Jun 10 15:11:20 when lenovo claims it does, it should do, no? Jun 10 15:17:22 ~lart TalkTalk Jun 10 15:17:23 * infobot executes killall -TERM TalkTalk Jun 10 15:18:11 So I have indeed been talking to myself, I see from checking the logs Jun 10 15:18:30 lardman> presumably one structures this like a tree, with a join at the top and each join containing two joins/conditions? Jun 10 15:18:30 anyone have any experience of this? Jun 10 15:18:30 I'm thinking a class called e.g. Boolean_item, which is subclassed by Condition, Joins, and Brackets Jun 10 15:18:30 might as well split NOT away from Joins too Jun 10 15:18:30 so each join has a root and is root for two more Boolean_items Jun 10 15:22:59 Jaffa: I see your comment in the log re push events Jun 10 15:23:36 will there be non-push events? Jun 10 15:25:16 if a given condition receives a push event (these will probably have to be managed with condition objects registering for a notification to provide a single point of access), then it can signal its root join/Boolean object to check the state, and keep propagating the signal up as long as it is true Jun 10 15:25:22 at least that would be my first thought Jun 10 15:27:02 lardman: Yes, for a non-push event I imagine it's triggered by another push event (e.g. a timer) Jun 10 15:28:22 timers are reasonably easy, but location will be less so Jun 10 15:28:42 as the events we want require some analysis of the location, not just the provided push event that it has changed Jun 10 15:29:22 but still that can be abstracted away in a location manager type object with which location events must register Jun 10 15:32:54 lardman: proximus reminds me of profile switcher for PalmOS. Jun 10 15:33:34 edheldil: well that is part of what we would like to achieve Jun 10 15:33:57 but it may as well be made very flexible, as both an interesting challenge, and to avoid lots of apps all doing the same thing Jun 10 15:34:08 needing to do the same thing Jun 10 15:44:32 lardman: Yeah, so the "push" event isn't raw and without processing Jun 10 15:44:42 lardman: They can be artificially generated Jun 10 15:46:48 timer events probably could be raw, with each of the condition object just waiting to be signalled, but even then it might make sense to use a timer manager to only have the minimum of active timers required Jun 10 15:47:42 e.g. if you had a couple of timers both elapsing at the same time, would make sense to just have one and farm out the result Jun 10 15:47:52 s/farm/send Jun 10 15:57:57 * lardman thinks it would be nice to Qtcreator to provide a nice tree view of the class hierarchy Jun 10 15:58:06 s/to/for Jun 10 15:59:26 oh god Jun 10 15:59:31 this freerdp port is awful Jun 10 15:59:35 it takes over the entire desktop Jun 10 16:00:18 and there's no way to quit without pressing the power button and selecting to end the task Jun 10 16:01:58 MUHAHA Jun 10 16:02:11 1 miiiilion dollars Jun 10 16:02:18 * DocScrutinizer found canola to be the same, that's why it got binned here Jun 10 16:03:03 lardman: +1000 Jun 10 16:03:05 it doesn't want to close from dashboard with ctrl-backspace Jun 10 16:03:50 I admit I forgot how ctl-bs is supposed to work on non-M hd Jun 10 16:04:58 canola is a stinking pile of bio-fertilizer when it comes to GUI Jun 10 16:06:27 btw ovi-maps isn't really so much better ;-) Jun 10 16:06:52 it's POS too, 'tis for sure Jun 10 16:06:58 non-M hd? Jun 10 16:07:08 What is new and exciting, gentlemen? Jun 10 16:07:27 * ShadowJK hasn't seen a good map app yet, but ovi is most usable so far I think.. Jun 10 16:08:05 lardman: It might also be worth trying to think about not being too granular on the timers, so only 5 minute accuracy? Jun 10 16:08:07 DocScrutinizer, command line sms sending, where do I dig in the wiki for thee details? Jun 10 16:08:24 lcuk: phone_control Jun 10 16:08:30 :D thanks Jun 10 16:08:31 at bottom of page Jun 10 16:08:47 yw Jun 10 16:08:52 Jaffa: agreed, and same on the location stuff Jun 10 16:09:04 bbiam, /me moves to the living room + netbook Jun 10 16:09:04 ShadowJK: Maep Jun 10 16:09:13 lardman: 5 minutes is rather lot ... Jun 10 16:10:11 The biggest thing that makes Ovi usable is that it has good map data :P Jun 10 16:10:37 Sygic has that too, but its crashiness and crappy search are friggin annoying. Jun 10 16:10:39 ShadowJK: But you better reboot your N900 every time you use it Jun 10 16:10:56 Huge swap hog Jun 10 16:11:07 why would I reboot.. Jun 10 16:11:14 Being a web app and all Jun 10 16:11:24 Shadow: So that you have got fresh swap partition =) Jun 10 16:11:39 it only uses marginally more than browsing tmo :-) Jun 10 16:11:52 I don't need to reboot to have fresh swap partition Jun 10 16:12:01 Shadow: I no longer browse with the microb either Jun 10 16:12:04 Opera. Jun 10 16:12:13 ShadowJK: modified/matan's HD Jun 10 16:13:00 well in stock install you arrive at dashboard? Jun 10 16:13:23 aah, so it's same Jun 10 16:13:58 just you have that nice additional rotation of thumbnails *in* dashboard Jun 10 16:14:07 with MHD Jun 10 16:14:08 re Jun 10 16:14:10 that took a while Jun 10 16:14:24 long walk from the study to the living room Jun 10 16:14:25 bye, will take a while Jun 10 16:14:30 ShadowJK, Ovi has the worst map data here :p Jun 10 16:17:17 certainly has the worst map application Jun 10 16:17:32 argh, bloody unity Jun 10 16:17:44 * lardman|home tries to work out how to get rid of it Jun 10 16:18:04 Ubuntu have signed their death warrant making this the default in 11.04 Jun 10 16:20:30 lardman: GNOME3 is not that much different Jun 10 16:21:01 The whole thing feels like regression from the normal desktop concept Jun 10 16:23:12 RST38h, aiming to make a touchable presence I believe Jun 10 16:23:56 touchable is good on the right platform Jun 10 16:24:10 any ideas what I should try to install then to get rid of Unity? Jun 10 16:24:31 lcuk: still not sufficient explanation Jun 10 16:25:00 lcuk: they also need to make the applications touch friendly Jun 10 16:25:07 lardman|home, just flip to classic? Jun 10 16:25:13 lardman|home, yes Jun 10 16:25:14 lcuk: that is the major issue with Ubuntu on the Tab Jun 10 16:25:21 that is the connunderum most face Jun 10 16:25:24 it is the same on windows Jun 10 16:25:24 MohammadAG: yeah, how do I do that? Jun 10 16:25:35 apps designed for mouse are tricky to modify Jun 10 16:25:38 lardman|home, I already told you yesterday Jun 10 16:25:42 First of all, they need bloody touchscreens everywhere Jun 10 16:25:48 And I do notsee those too much Jun 10 16:25:52 they need apps designed for touchscreens Jun 10 16:25:58 no, we obviously need mind control Jun 10 16:26:06 MohammadAG: did you? I must pay more attention Jun 10 16:26:10 i made you type that MohammadAG Jun 10 16:26:15 Mohammad: Just need a human secretary Jun 10 16:26:20 :D Jun 10 16:26:27 lardman|home, you were paying attention :p Jun 10 16:26:37 RST38h: to operate the computer for me? Jun 10 16:26:41 logout, click your name, click ubuntu classic in the bottom menu, login Jun 10 16:26:50 oh that Jun 10 16:26:54 lcuk, you did? Jun 10 16:26:57 I didn't see that again Jun 10 16:26:57 lardman: for example, yes Jun 10 16:27:02 hang on, I'll give it a go Jun 10 16:27:07 bbiam Jun 10 16:27:24 and that. Jun 10 16:28:25 MohammadAG: you're a star Jun 10 16:28:47 nah, I just give advice that doesn't work for me Jun 10 16:28:52 heh Jun 10 16:29:20 * DocScrutinizer controls MohammadAG 's mind Jun 10 16:29:20 anyway good riddance to that Unity crap Jun 10 16:29:24 gnome-panels are broken, can't initialize applets here, so I either 1) reinstall Ubuntu 2) fix what's wrong (no idea) or 3) stick to unity Jun 10 16:29:35 I'm on 3 atm Jun 10 16:29:39 I like bacon Jun 10 16:29:59 nothing wrong with liking bacon Jun 10 16:30:07 lardman|home, install windows xp Jun 10 16:30:09 * lcuk hides Jun 10 16:30:11 hmm BACON Jun 10 16:30:15 mmm bacon Jun 10 16:30:32 o/ Jun 10 16:30:38 lcuk: I have WinXP installed on the netbook too, but I find it easier developing Linux applications on Linux... ;) Jun 10 16:30:45 Francis Bacon? Jun 10 16:30:46 mmmm bacon Jun 10 16:30:48 http://liqbase.net/liq.20090115_233206.gary.scr.png Jun 10 16:31:51 achipa, ping Jun 10 16:34:17 MohammadAG: I only upgraded because dpkg started throwing fits about repos without something or other Jun 10 16:34:53 lardman|home, I upgraded and that broke my applets Jun 10 16:35:37 well I can feel happy that it seems to be working Jun 10 16:35:44 an indeed even the wifi seems to work better now Jun 10 16:37:16 haha placebo, the best upgrade ever Jun 10 16:37:53 DocScrutinizer51: indeed ;) Jun 10 16:39:18 lardman|home, can you paste me the output of ls /usr/lib/gnome-panel/ Jun 10 16:39:35 and gnome-applets Jun 10 16:39:57 simon@simon-N140:~$ ls /usr/lib/gnome-panel/ Jun 10 16:39:58 clock-applet gnome-panel-add notification-area-applet Jun 10 16:39:58 fish-applet modules wnck-applet Jun 10 16:40:16 simon@simon-N140:~$ ls /usr/lib/gnome-applets/ Jun 10 16:40:16 accessx-status-applet geyes_applet2 null_applet Jun 10 16:40:16 charpick_applet2 gweather-applet-2 stickynotes_applet Jun 10 16:40:16 cpufreq-applet invest-applet trashapplet Jun 10 16:40:16 drivemount_applet2 multiload-applet-2 Jun 10 16:59:57 Authorities in Spain say they have arrested three members of the hacktivist collective Anonymous and seized at least one computer used in the attacks on Sony. Jun 10 17:03:48 I'm sure that will take a chunk out of the DoS capabilities Jun 10 17:13:14 Anyone know of a good set of instructions for installing debian ARM on the n900? Jun 10 17:17:56 Jaffa: I've applied for a Garage project and have started writing some code to get some ideas down Jun 10 17:19:04 lardman: Cool Jun 10 17:20:22 Jaffa, does hermes import contacts? Jun 10 17:20:28 or just update them a bit? Jun 10 17:26:09 Wifi power saving mode doesn't work with dd-wrte? Jun 10 17:26:13 dd-wrt? Jun 10 17:26:58 that sucks man Jun 10 17:28:10 Sc0rpius: worked here. Jun 10 17:28:15 DD-WRT is shit, though. Jun 10 17:28:22 Sc0rpius, usually the issue is the router and not the N900. Jun 10 17:29:40 well I like DD-WRT since it can measure bandwidth consumption Jun 10 17:29:52 but if there's another (OpenSource) option out there I could try it out no problem Jun 10 17:30:30 it seems DD-WRT doesn't work well with ANY Nokia with WifI power-saving mode enabled. If it's turned off it works alright Jun 10 17:31:32 Tomato is nice Jun 10 17:31:41 Try a different version Jun 10 17:32:05 dd-wrt has no problems with power saving here. Jun 10 17:32:09 So it's not just DD-WRT. Jun 10 17:32:50 the N900 has a intermediate power-saving option, if I use that, it works Jun 10 17:33:04 but I use the default power-saving mode, I lose connectivity after a few seconds Jun 10 17:33:21 but I lose it TO the N900, not FROM the N900 Jun 10 17:33:37 I mean: I ssh to the N900, it won't work unless the N900 is doing something, like a constant ping Jun 10 17:33:49 or something else that uses the network Jun 10 17:34:06 Sc0rpius: what router do you have (hardware)? Jun 10 17:34:49 I have a Linksys WRT54G2 Jun 10 17:35:14 with DD-WRT v24-sp2 micro - build 14896 I can change that to whatever it shows mrtg-like graphics Jun 10 17:35:26 or at least let me turn on a snmpd Jun 10 17:35:30 hmm Jun 10 17:35:48 Anyone know of a good set of instructions for installing debian ARM on the n900? Jun 10 17:36:07 with the Linksys stock firmware it worked like a charm Jun 10 17:36:35 Jef91, there's already a package called something like Easy Debian that has wizard and everything Jun 10 17:36:50 that you can look for it in your Application Mananager Jun 10 17:37:13 No Jun 10 17:37:20 I want to actually install it as a second OS Jun 10 17:37:24 not just run it in a chroot Jun 10 17:37:40 Sc0rpius: if you're feeling adventurous, you could try openwrt and see if that fixes things Jun 10 17:38:13 I know my router and n900 never worked with power saving modes, but I don't know if it was a dd-wrt or a hardware thing Jun 10 17:38:16 I wonder if that supports my router, Tomato doesn't (I just checked it) Jun 10 17:38:52 http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt54g#info Jun 10 17:38:54 I think it does Jun 10 17:39:47 hm Jun 10 17:39:59 the WRT54G2 is not the WRT54G v2.0 Jun 10 17:40:06 no heh Jun 10 17:40:08 maybe not (yet) Jun 10 17:40:18 the WRT54G2 is the one that looks like a cockroach and doesn't have antennas Jun 10 17:40:34 oh, ouch Jun 10 17:40:42 it's one with a tiny amount of flash Jun 10 17:41:20 yeah, 16 MB I think Jun 10 17:41:26 16? Jun 10 17:41:56 everything I see says it's using vxworks and needs the "micro" builds of dd-wrt Jun 10 17:42:05 which would indicate 2-4MB Jun 10 17:42:05 yeah Jun 10 17:42:17 checking... Jun 10 17:42:37 yeah, 2MB flash, 16MB RAM Jun 10 17:42:41 yeah that is Jun 10 17:42:53 16MB of RAM and 2MB flash Jun 10 17:45:13 lcuk: It can create them, yes Jun 10 17:45:37 lcuk: e.g. birthday only from Facebook, or full info from LinkedIn Jun 10 17:46:16 @Jef91 .. try this https://elektranox.org/n900/ (haven't tested myself :D ) Jun 10 18:12:51 Jaffa, ping? Jun 10 18:32:23 my bandwidth reset Jun 10 18:33:23 i will be listening to Rammstein in an hour! :) but i need to kill ff to run the sdk vm Jun 10 18:34:19 Ah, ehlo dangergrrl Jun 10 18:34:58 oh hai Jun 10 18:35:04 i thought i was in trouble Jun 10 18:40:44 Hmm...how do I disablepage previews in google search? Jun 10 18:46:51 the same way you disable instant serch, you don't Jun 10 18:47:05 you just let your phone browser crawl along Jun 10 18:47:09 and curse google Jun 10 18:47:52 I disabledinstant search via settings Jun 10 18:49:13 Log into google - click the 'gear' to the far right of the page on the top Jun 10 18:49:32 then click search settings, - scroll down to goolge instant - and deselect it Jun 10 18:50:20 freaking previews are not disableablethough Jun 10 18:52:28 yes they are Jun 10 19:13:51 GeneralAntilles: pong Jun 10 19:14:09 Jaffa, want to try to push the TSG issue to the next meeting agenda? Jun 10 19:14:48 * Jaffa was thinking of mailing Imad :) Jun 10 19:15:08 GeneralAntilles: Is there a meeting schedu;ed? Jun 10 19:15:22 Jaffa, no, which makes this a good time to start filling up an agenda. Jun 10 19:15:26 Jaffa, what was the tweet for? Jun 10 19:15:37 lcuk: fingers falling off Jun 10 19:15:43 :D:D:D Jun 10 19:16:01 it is just a bit squashed but had forgotten that Jun 10 19:16:12 / strange for me Jun 10 19:16:21 GeneralAntilles: Heh. Good plan. I'm up for it, if ppl think it's a good idea Jun 10 19:17:27 * Jaffa 's choices of OS never ends well though, I could be the death knell for MeeGo: Acorn & RISC OS, Psion & EPOC, Nokia & Maemo... Jun 10 19:17:49 Does anyone knows why garage autobuilder replaces #!/usr/bin/python with #!//scratchbox/tools/bin/python ? And how to tell it not to replace? Jun 10 19:18:34 divan: make sure your code (including debian/rules) use python2.5 instead of just "python" Jun 10 19:18:37 divan: Python in Scratchbox is special. Jun 10 19:18:48 jaffa, you missed amiga workbench thankfully Jun 10 19:19:07 lcuk: Thankfully indeed. Jun 10 19:19:19 * lcuk admired that OS greatly Jun 10 19:19:27 divan: also see last question in http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/FAQ Jun 10 19:19:42 You look like an Amiga user :-p Jun 10 19:19:48 by the way jaffa liqbase liqstar liq* liqOS Jun 10 19:19:49 ^lcuk: Jun 10 19:20:24 * lcuk has gutu meditations occasionally Jun 10 19:20:25 lizardo, thanks a lot. Jun 10 19:20:31 Jaffa, yes, it's a good idea. Jun 10 19:21:42 jaffa4tsg! Jun 10 19:22:05 :) Jun 10 19:25:34 you don't really have a choice, it's that or sharing a room with abill_uk for the next ten years! Jun 10 19:25:58 ;P Jun 10 19:37:17 javispedro: Those are the exact two options? Jun 10 19:38:42 well, no, abill_uk may or may not be having a meego-based device with him. Jun 10 19:39:43 It's a world of false dichotomies. Get used to it. Jun 10 19:40:06 Yes, abill_uk gets a new meego device. Jun 10 19:40:19 But it has 120gramms of C4 in it. Jun 10 19:45:34 a 120++g device? :-o Jun 10 20:17:18 m.google.com stopped working with mfe Jun 10 20:17:19 wtf Jun 10 20:17:20 :) Jun 10 20:17:28 would be nice to have a google syncing app for maemo that worked Jun 10 20:17:49 syncevolution seems to work Jun 10 20:18:06 i have to run 3 apps just to sync google.. awesome Jun 10 20:18:58 i ended up paying up for nuevasync Jun 10 20:19:14 works with google? Jun 10 20:20:31 i have to use syncevolution for contacts.. erminig for calendar and imap for mail :) Jun 10 20:20:37 it's kind of retarded Jun 10 20:20:47 i might be able to sync it all with syncevolution but i don't want to screw up my contacts Jun 10 20:20:55 er... calendar Jun 10 20:22:10 syncevolution doesn't do email anyways.. and i don't think the gmail "exchange" server works too well to begin with Jun 10 21:16:46 'Honestly, only 1 out of 500 customers comes in here asking for a Windows phone,' he said. 'Verizon won't roll them out to kiosks until it performs better on the market.' Jun 10 21:17:29 hmm... best overall s60 phone? Jun 10 21:17:50 i'm undecided between n95 and 6120c Jun 10 21:22:08 e90 Jun 10 21:22:30 6600 Jun 10 21:22:34 nothing could beat it Jun 10 21:27:32 hiemanshu: hahaha no Jun 10 21:27:35 something *good* Jun 10 21:27:51 nid0: the e90 is not s60, come on Jun 10 21:27:53 i mean, technically yeah Jun 10 21:28:03 it shouldnt be s60, but it is Jun 10 21:28:20 old N-Gage Jun 10 21:28:30 you guys are making this hard Jun 10 21:28:36 best overall s60v3 phone? Jun 10 21:28:51 e90 by miles, still :D Jun 10 21:29:00 kerio: N73? Jun 10 21:29:04 kerio: N85? Jun 10 21:29:21 N82? Jun 10 21:29:24 the n73 is a candybar n95 without the good camera Jun 10 21:29:26 well actually Jun 10 21:29:36 the nokia c3 gold plated edition Jun 10 21:29:37 the n85... hm, maybe Jun 10 21:29:48 I own a N82 Jun 10 21:30:34 javispedro: WP7 isn't exactly a bestseller, indeed Jun 10 21:32:14 Anyone who sends or posts an image online (and yes, that includes TwitPics) that they "reasonably should know" would "cause emotional distress" could face several months in jail and thousands of dollars in fines. [in Tennessee] Jun 10 21:32:59 RST38h: so, will Nokia tank after or before shipping the first harmattan device? place your bets, gentlemen! Jun 10 21:33:24 the moron senator that thought that one up causes me great emotional distress over the devolution of these wonderful things called "common sense" and "intelligence", and therefore should go to jail Jun 10 21:33:49 javis: you think Nokia will ship harmattan device? Jun 10 21:34:05 nid0: send him the tubgirl! Jun 10 21:34:27 send him ascii goatse Jun 10 21:34:31 and the real one Jun 10 21:34:37 and ask em to compare? Jun 10 21:36:38 RST38h: I do believe, that, eventually, they will at least try to ship once... otherwise the clusterfsck increases by an order of magnitude. Jun 10 21:37:01 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/06/10/1936237/Windows-Phones-Getting-Buried-At-Carriers-Stores Jun 10 21:37:05 javis: so far looks like everyone has abandoned the ship Jun 10 21:37:08 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jun 10 21:37:18 a few words more by elop and this goes directly into history books Jun 10 21:37:22 * RST38h likes this one better: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/06/10/1919203/Australian-Built-Hoverbike-Prepares-For-Takeoff?utm_source=rss1.0&utm_medium=feed Jun 10 21:37:38 * SpeedEvil ponders the truly amusing prospect of M6 outselling W7. Jun 10 21:37:42 javis:it will already go to the history books Jun 10 21:37:57 javis: looks like WSJ reported on Samsung trying to bid on Nokia =) Jun 10 21:38:05 (regrettably unlikely - but...) Jun 10 21:38:18 Speed: I kinda suspect M5 will outsell W7 :) Jun 10 21:38:43 one thing is for sure: s60 will outsell w7 =) Jun 10 21:38:53 yeah Jun 10 21:40:52 asus has gone berserk, they now make virtually everything that could be made. a 3d glasses free ebook reader? check. "padfone?" check. Jun 10 21:41:18 if they only made it in good quality... Jun 10 21:41:35 asus still not making digital camers though, samsung does, shitty ones Jun 10 21:42:02 "Eee Videophone" Jun 10 21:42:50 EEEEeeeee shower - the heater works half the time Jun 10 21:43:24 * javispedro now realizes that the EEE is kinda a pun on the _i_Devices =( Jun 10 21:43:42 any list of bugs for the Maemo 5/PR1.3 ? Jun 10 21:43:46 eee was first wan't it? Jun 10 21:43:54 user0: yes Jun 10 21:44:00 https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?classification=Maemo%20Official%20Applications&classification=Maemo%20Official%20Platform&resolution=FIXED&target_milestone=5.0%2F%2820.2010.36-2%29&order=map_products.name%2Cbugs.bug_id Jun 10 21:44:03 SpeedEvil: earlier than ipod? Jun 10 21:44:03 !bug 10 Jun 10 21:44:05 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/10 Missing sample application for libOSSO Jun 10 21:44:14 javispedro: err - probably not Jun 10 21:45:14 SpeedEvil : thats for the list of fixed bugs Jun 10 21:45:35 user0: It's not - it's for the list of all reported bugs Jun 10 21:45:54 i was talking about the link i pasted Jun 10 21:46:15 yes - you need to fiddle with your serarh Jun 10 21:46:20 so you get all bugs Jun 10 21:47:29 https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__all__&product=&content= Jun 10 21:47:33 that Jun 10 21:48:01 im viewing it now Jun 10 21:48:04 big fuckn list Jun 10 21:49:22 what did you expect Jun 10 21:49:40 this is an entire OS... Jun 10 21:50:18 SpeedEvil : nokia planning on releasing anything beyond PR1.3? Jun 10 21:50:27 or is it known to be the last Jun 10 21:50:39 javispedro : true. Jun 10 21:50:44 They are releasing one new 'meego' device. Jun 10 21:50:56 Which isn't really meego. Jun 10 21:51:00 But... Jun 10 21:51:08 It may be happening in the next couple of weeks. Jun 10 21:51:13 At least - they've said so. Jun 10 21:51:44 na, the rumour comes from the fcc disclosure date Jun 10 21:51:48 (they've said they're releasing it - not that ti'll be released in the next couple of weeks) Jun 10 21:51:55 yeah - that Jun 10 21:51:56 ah. Jun 10 21:52:14 so Jun 10 21:52:46 * lardman crosses his fingers for a release in the next few weeks Jun 10 21:52:47 javispedro : the one that talked about the meego developers edition ? Jun 10 21:52:49 while we're at it. do I have to start stocking cyanide pills, to distribute when june passes by with no new devices? Jun 10 21:52:54 thats what you mean by fcc? Jun 10 21:53:14 Federal something Commission Jun 10 21:53:19 :S Jun 10 21:53:43 user0: I have no other information than what was posted on the fcc. Jun 10 21:53:48 http://mynokiablog.com/2011/05/11/nokia-rm-680nokia-n950n9-passes-fcc-looks-like-the-qwerty-n9-leaked-from-last-year/ Jun 10 21:53:53 links to it Jun 10 21:54:02 first hit on Google for "fcc n950" Jun 10 21:54:52 * lardman heads for bed Jun 10 21:54:54 SpeedEvil : so this means all we have now is the community ssu update? Jun 10 21:54:55 night all Jun 10 21:55:06 user0: There is the meego desktop environment. Jun 10 21:55:27 but they aren't planning for PR1.4 Jun 10 21:55:42 and this meego has no apps yet Jun 10 21:55:45 I would put the likelyhood of a nokia update to the N900 as about equally likely to be WP7, PR1.4, and gnu hurd. Jun 10 21:55:49 a few i'd guess Jun 10 21:57:10 SpeedEvil : i watched this presentation yesterday regarding the meego developers edition for the n900 Jun 10 21:57:19 you cant tell if its gona work out in the end Jun 10 21:57:31 lardman|gone: I hope the blogger will pay royalties fir that URL, as that's what I said after 5min Jun 10 21:57:41 its like they just want developers to be able to develop for the OS using a device thats available atm Jun 10 21:57:50 user0: Exactly Jun 10 21:58:45 waste of time installing meego atm Jun 10 21:59:33 unless someones willing to help out Jun 10 22:05:00 user0: that's exactly the point Jun 10 22:17:59 http://twitter.com/#!/zehjotkah/status/79270983592194049 "Nokia N9 revealed!" Jun 10 22:18:37 In twitter, must be true. Jun 10 22:18:38 >.< Jun 10 22:19:15 The tune is wrong Jun 10 22:19:36 omfg Jun 10 22:20:11 GRRRRRRR Jun 10 22:20:19 :D Jun 10 22:20:53 next one luring me into clicking this FSCKING twitter URLs that gibe we a blank screen after loading some 100 pics Jun 10 22:21:15 give me* Jun 10 22:22:13 * DocScrutinizer does echo 0.0.0.0 twitter.com >>/etc/hosts Jun 10 22:22:52 DocScrutinizer: evidently, it is a fake. Jun 10 22:22:56 come back when you got a page that actually loads Jun 10 22:24:05 as I won't move to MSIE for watching sites that are too stupidly maintained to work with arbitrary browsers Jun 10 22:24:56 haha that just links to http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tune=IAYRjAFHKOSQ4hRCiFHKIeQogRAjjAHAUAoARhjEnJOEcI4QggA* Jun 10 22:25:17 * nox- ff4 with noscript Jun 10 22:25:24 on freebsd too :P Jun 10 22:43:13 .. Jun 10 22:43:55 hm Jun 10 22:44:09 i guess that sounded more harsh than it was meant Jun 10 22:53:08 nox-: what? Jun 10 22:53:35 * DocScrutinizer fails to sense harsh words, except own bitching against twitter Jun 10 22:53:38 WOT Jun 10 22:53:49 heh ok Jun 10 22:54:23 I admit I sometimes fail on social skills though Jun 10 22:56:38 DocScrutinizer: i was arguing with somebody on irc saying that N900 is low end device because it has resistive touchscreen and it doesn't cost as much as samsung galaxy S Jun 10 22:58:07 i hate getting into an anecdote when alluva sudden a word containing P or F causes a fountain of spittle to erupt. Jun 10 22:58:07 haha Jun 10 22:58:28 hmm, so what? If you're not afraid of some dudes not getting the sarcasm... Jun 10 22:59:01 DocScrutinizer: he was being serious Jun 10 22:59:07 this conversation is kinda surrealist, am I missing messages or something? Jun 10 22:59:18 and another stupid thing i've seen today Jun 10 22:59:19 aah, *he* said that Jun 10 22:59:47 i got an e-mail from somebody and his signature was looking like that --\nName Surname\ne-mail address - \n are newlines for people not knowing Jun 10 22:59:53 what's the point of having e-mail address in e-mail signature Jun 10 23:00:30 hah Jun 10 23:00:35 NFC Jun 10 23:00:48 because modern email clients hide the email address in the header Jun 10 23:00:49 javispedro: the world goes apeshit Jun 10 23:01:04 DocScrutinizer: for last 100 years Jun 10 23:01:06 DocScrutinizer: No Fat Chicks? Jun 10 23:01:15 ShadowJK may be onto something... Jun 10 23:01:35 ShadowJK: outlook doesn't Jun 10 23:01:36 National Fake Control Jun 10 23:01:38 ShadowJK: opera doesn't Jun 10 23:02:58 ShadowJK: that's because users must get protected from such nasty details like true pathnames, email-addr, etc Jun 10 23:03:40 that reminds me of.. http://jonoscript.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/some-people-cant-read-urls/ Jun 10 23:04:07 ShadowJK: users are supposed to click "Answer", "Add to Contacts", whatever. So what's the friggin use of placing the email addr into signature so all these brilliant concepts fail and users' eyes will bleed from looking at it? Jun 10 23:04:28 Jun 10 23:05:06 users are supposed to click Reply _to ALL_ Jun 10 23:06:21 With a convenent 'reply to all in your list' button too, that will mail everyone in your contacts list the email. Jun 10 23:06:41 honestly, rather than adding my email to signature I'd maybe better should add a replyto:billsucks@ms.com Jun 10 23:06:44 SpeedEvil: exactly Jun 10 23:07:07 but it might not be needed because the email they are reapplying is already a spammy powerpoint thingie Jun 10 23:07:17 containing most of their contacts Jun 10 23:07:24 s/reapplying/replying Jun 10 23:08:38 oh yeah, the "to: " mails Jun 10 23:09:40 now only make each of the recipients click "Add All To Contacts" and HOORAY Jun 10 23:10:11 * DocScrutinizer ponders oiling the rifles Jun 10 23:10:34 * javispedro ponders what to buy in amazon so as to get free shipping Jun 10 23:10:55 buy "free shipping" ;-P Jun 10 23:11:21 a 32G Class 10 microSD card Jun 10 23:11:43 * DocScrutinizer sets up an ebay auction selling "feee shipping" to the highest bid Jun 10 23:11:55 free even Jun 10 23:13:11 is there anything else bizarre we could talk about? Jun 10 23:14:13 ds3, do those even exist? Jun 10 23:14:30 heard there are now Jun 10 23:14:49 ugh, when's the 64GB card coming out? Jun 10 23:14:50 how many body parts will that cost me? Jun 10 23:14:56 well NFI about class10 Jun 10 23:15:01 MohammadAG: 32G does... donno about the class 10 part Jun 10 23:15:15 was more interested in the class 10 part :p Jun 10 23:15:32 classX is a fake anyway Jun 10 23:15:36 so never mind Jun 10 23:15:42 btw, having songs on a uSD loads them marginally faster Jun 10 23:15:47 no real benchmarks Jun 10 23:15:55 not completely Jun 10 23:16:07 an unclassed card was painfully slow compared to a class4 Jun 10 23:16:10 for all practical purposes it is Jun 10 23:16:22 ask ShadowJK Jun 10 23:16:26 so MeeGo isn't practical Jun 10 23:16:27 :p Jun 10 23:17:01 that's never been a discussed issue, of course it's not practical ;-P Jun 10 23:17:24 can MeeGo talk to the radio yet? Jun 10 23:17:31 lol Jun 10 23:17:42 have to ask =) Jun 10 23:17:43 the real FM radio? Jun 10 23:17:57 no, the above 1GHz radio that is neither WiFi or BT Jun 10 23:18:11 aah, think they can, somewhat Jun 10 23:18:26 "even" SHR can Jun 10 23:18:33 since quite some time Jun 10 23:18:42 and do 3G data? Jun 10 23:18:50 since a few fays we got semi-decent audio too for calls ;-P Jun 10 23:19:03 days* Jun 10 23:19:22 not released yet though Jun 10 23:19:23 I think it can do 3G yeah Jun 10 23:19:45 if it can do GPRS then it can do 3G Jun 10 23:21:00 fee shipping! Jun 10 23:21:03 Actually, class X isn't fake as such. It's a perfect measurement of what kind of performance you can expect if you set your digital camera to rapidfire ;p Jun 10 23:21:20 but that's about the only place it's relevant Jun 10 23:23:08 I don't know if MeeGo QA used a Kingston or Transcend, but apparently it randomly "doesn't work" Jun 10 23:23:36 "randomly doesn't work" is a phrase I've heard many times with the current state of afairs in meego n900, sadly. Jun 10 23:24:26 do we start to guess about root cause of that now? Nah, better not Jun 10 23:24:42 I'm giving meego another chance Jun 10 23:24:51 now I'm wondering what I should try Jun 10 23:24:56 meego-tablet or handset Jun 10 23:25:11 and after that, de-sanity or de-acceptance Jun 10 23:25:17 DocScrutinizer: simple: reduced manpower. needs way more contributors, and specially testers with experience Jun 10 23:25:19 try tablet, a fast one. Less chances for races Jun 10 23:25:22 DocScrutinizer, well... a) Kingston only pretends to have read the SD spec b) there's some funny mmc timing code in maemo's kernel atleast Jun 10 23:25:32 shouldn't that be a in- and un-? Jun 10 23:25:33 :p Jun 10 23:26:29 Kingston cards have issues elsewhere too due to randomly not responding in the 250ms the spec requires Jun 10 23:26:31 javispedro: I won't answer this as I opted not to "act erratically" once again. See my advice to MohammadAG for a clue what I think is the true root cause Jun 10 23:26:33 iirc Jun 10 23:26:55 ShadowJK: but how they do it Jun 10 23:27:01 ShadowJK: if they are not even making them Jun 10 23:27:09 ShadowJK: they are only assembly company Jun 10 23:27:30 buy off the shelf flash chip, controller put it together and sell Jun 10 23:27:35 and that's all they doing Jun 10 23:27:45 it needs less QML imo Jun 10 23:27:48 with same controllers and flash chips everybody else is using Jun 10 23:27:53 jacekowski: they can _choose_ the controller Jun 10 23:28:01 (and go bankrupt =) ) Jun 10 23:28:17 javispedro: there are only so many controllers available Jun 10 23:28:34 jacekowski, they aren't assembly company either Jun 10 23:29:22 jacekowski: I bet each company has their own flavour of the controller firmware Jun 10 23:29:28 they actually also have their own controller (in cooperation with someone else, I forget who). It's beyond crap Jun 10 23:30:32 repository.maemo.org giving me 500kb/s, I'm actually impressed Jun 10 23:33:29 it's akamai Jun 10 23:33:35 specially static files like .debs Jun 10 23:40:35 javispedro, meego image Jun 10 23:40:40 hi all, i'm blind and working on a project to make my n900 talk. is anyone here familiar with u-boot? Jun 10 23:41:57 just ask I guess, though #meego would be a better place for uboot/meego related issues Jun 10 23:42:15 or #meego-arm, not sure Jun 10 23:42:15 actually #meego-arm Jun 10 23:42:31 thanks javispedro Jun 10 23:43:43 i asked on meego-arm the other day and they really didn't have an answer for me. Jun 10 23:44:00 Thordasin: What's your u-boot question? Jun 10 23:44:03 i was told to go to #maemo that there were some sharp guys over there :) Jun 10 23:44:17 it must be quite a hard question :) shoot. Jun 10 23:44:22 hm. Jun 10 23:44:38 hmrpf. Jun 10 23:44:57 don't know what just happend :) Jun 10 23:45:09 asking here wouldn't hurt I guess Jun 10 23:45:11 What's your u-boot question? Jun 10 23:46:00 i have it built and working but it wants to load from the sd card, i have my debian rootfs on the emmc, how do you change the boot device? Jun 10 23:46:47 that's a queation MohammadAG should be able to answer Jun 10 23:46:49 the readme talks about bootargs, but i can't find the file where they set them. Jun 10 23:47:25 MohammadAG made his device boot meego from eMMC Jun 10 23:47:27 yes thats the built in 32gb Jun 10 23:47:33 DocScrutinizer, Thordasin last time I asked ali1234 he said he couldn't get uboot to read the eMMC Jun 10 23:47:50 DocScrutinizer, I use flasher-3.5 -k image -l -b "custom cmdline" Jun 10 23:48:00 aaah Jun 10 23:48:34 which means you get maemo normal if you power off and back on right? Jun 10 23:48:57 yeah Jun 10 23:49:13 I couldn't get the kernel to recompile with my custom cmdline Jun 10 23:49:15 i tried to flash the debian kernel to the phone but its too big. :) Jun 10 23:49:21 actually I couldn't get it to compile Jun 10 23:49:35 load it manually Jun 10 23:49:46 I don't think it goes in the flash, I got a 4MB kernel loaded once Jun 10 23:49:58 i've worked on building a kernel for almost a week now with no luck. i can build it no problem but the phone won't load it it powers off or reboots. Jun 10 23:50:04 it was 2.6.35, was trying to get it on maemo (ha) Jun 10 23:50:18 of course, I couldn't get past mounting the ubifs Jun 10 23:50:27 I would reconsider if you really need a custom kernel, specially if you want to run debian. Jun 10 23:50:31 why not take the meego-2.6.37 kernel? Jun 10 23:50:34 that would probably be the watchdog not the kernel Jun 10 23:50:51 it didn't exist back then Jun 10 23:51:18 ahh Jun 10 23:51:34 javispedro: what do you mean? Jun 10 23:51:58 by the way ou guys need to remeber as i'm blind when several people talk i'll miss messages *grin* Jun 10 23:52:12 (sorry to hear that) Jun 10 23:52:31 Thordasin: what do you want to get with the new kernel? maybe you do not need it; Debian will probably run fine with the stock kernel. Jun 10 23:52:51 speakup Jun 10 23:53:00 and tty Jun 10 23:53:20 But then Kingston is also known for taking anyone's surplus cards, flash, controllers, etc and branding them as their own Jun 10 23:53:57 Thordasin, are you in R&D mode? Jun 10 23:54:19 i don't think so Jun 10 23:54:20 cause whether it's the stock kernel, or the meego kernel, or a custom one, it'll shut off in 30/60/120s Jun 10 23:54:34 unless you ping the watchdog Jun 10 23:54:57 fun times, look at http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode Jun 10 23:55:04 oh, well what hapens is the uboot loads ther kenel and it gets down to starting kernel... then it powers off Jun 10 23:55:06 you'll need no-omap-wd Jun 10 23:55:20 MeeGo pings the watchdog afaik Jun 10 23:55:35 You don't (I'm 99% sure you don't :p) Jun 10 23:56:09 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918 <- about kingston :P Jun 10 23:57:24 MohammadAG: wouldn't i get more boot messages before it powered off if it was the watch dog? Jun 10 23:59:01 uh Jun 10 23:59:42 If you dont ping the hardware watchdog, it will think the operating system is dead. It makes no effort to talk to something dead, and reboots the system Jun 11 00:01:30 Thordasin, no idea, I'd give R&D mode a shot Jun 11 00:01:43 If you dont ping the hardware watchdog, it will think the operating system is dead. It makes no effort to talk to something dead, and reboots the system Jun 11 00:01:48 since you missed that :p Jun 11 00:01:58 Thordasin: actually after NOLO loads uBoot you got some 30s to start up the kernel and system and start to ping watchdog, otherwise it simply reboots Jun 11 00:03:30 sorry guys it will take a minute to review message, i got stuck in something called chanserv and couldn't get out of it. Jun 11 00:04:45 Thordasin: ooops, chanserv is a bot that's master of this channel Jun 11 00:05:04 ohh well i finally hit excape and it closed Jun 11 00:05:04 Thordasin: as of all freenode channels actually Jun 11 00:05:41 if the phone reboots its the wqatch dog, is that true if it powers off? i've had both happen this week. Jun 11 00:05:57 may happen as well Jun 11 00:06:15 ok can i have that r&d link again please Jun 11 00:06:19 I'm unsure about what decides if it powers down or reboots Jun 11 00:06:37 http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode Jun 11 00:06:53 do you guys want me to come back and tell you if i get this kernel working? it builds just fine. Jun 11 00:07:01 sure Jun 11 00:07:23 you are welcome any time Jun 11 00:08:21 THANKS YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN MORE HELP IN 5 MINTUESTHAN THEY HAVE BEEN ON THE MEEGO-ARM IN THE PAST WEEK. Jun 11 00:09:03 you're welcome :) Jun 11 00:09:23 OK I'M SWITCHING WINDOWS TO READ THAT CATCH YOU IN A BIT :) Jun 11 00:10:16 that's funny considering meego-arm says #maemo is a useless wasteland :P Jun 11 00:10:44 ShadowJK, yeah, not impressed by that crowd. Jun 11 00:10:47 Thordasin: hint: your capslock is set ;-) Jun 11 00:11:39 DocScrutinizer, might be something to help with his eyes :/ Jun 11 00:11:50 OOPS THANKS :) Jun 11 00:11:53 better :) Jun 11 00:12:15 MohammadAG: nah, it just reads similar on some MMI Jun 11 00:12:28 DocScrutinizer, hey did I tell you about that fancy Li-Ion charger I ordered? Jun 11 00:12:41 nope Jun 11 00:13:38 fancy feature to measure battery internal resistance Jun 11 00:15:14 anyone else here surprised that the n900 had a fm transmitter? Jun 11 00:15:51 Hurrian, its for audio thru car radios etc Jun 11 00:15:55 nope :P Jun 11 00:16:00 Also, it came with a bonus internal short circuit somewhere after the output stage. I did wonder "wtf" when it complained about input voltage being bad, considering my source wwas good for 50A @ 12V. I checked cables to eliminate bad contacts and retried repeatedly while wiggling cables. Then it went bang and started smoking. Fortunately it has a fan, and turned it on to blow all the smoke in my face Jun 11 00:16:12 i seriously didnt know that it had an internal fmtx Jun 11 00:16:23 and that you cant use fmrx by default Jun 11 00:16:31 ShadowJK: haha Jun 11 00:16:40 china \o/ Jun 11 00:16:55 acidently closed :) did i hear some one say the fmt does not work? Jun 11 00:17:55 i was going to read the scroll back but acidently closed the window :) Jun 11 00:18:03 Thordasin: he was just surprised that the N900 had one. Jun 11 00:18:17 Thordasin: (a FM Radio transmitter, that is) Jun 11 00:18:20 oh ok thought some said it had a short :) Jun 11 00:18:50 the FMTX has epic quality if you're in a clear area actually Jun 11 00:18:54 yes thats one reason i got it, i use fmt to listen to books all the time Jun 11 00:19:48 anyone ever looked into speech recognition engines? Jun 11 00:19:54 i own several bluetooth to fmt's and wanted my phone to just have it! Jun 11 00:19:55 would've been fun to measure IR of my puffed BP-4L and my useless BP-4L :-/ Jun 11 00:20:36 I want a simple car mode for the N900, something that can fire up my music with one click, route calls to bluetooth/fmtx Jun 11 00:20:51 something I can remember without having to look at the N900 Jun 11 00:21:23 a while back i did, i mean i worked for 15 years for the irs in the adaptive equipment office and we used dragon all the time, but in linux there are a few gpl'd apps but i'm not sure how good they are hmm one of them had ear in the name Jun 11 00:21:27 confirmation by saying Yes/No to the N900 would be nice Jun 11 00:22:47 i'd love to work in mae mor but i never could get that hildon test swuit to compile Jun 11 00:23:31 its something you can use to query the objects and focus in the hildon interaface Jun 11 00:24:12 sorry about the typoes guys i just miss them some times. Jun 11 00:24:31 no worries Jun 11 00:24:31 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1026650&postcount=1 Jun 11 00:24:35 oh wow, seriously? Jun 11 00:26:15 do you need both the wd flags? Jun 11 00:27:07 I'd give it all 3 Jun 11 00:27:52 the lifeguard and two wds Jun 11 00:27:52 they're comma separated afaik Jun 11 00:27:54 3 i only saw 2 let me read again :) Jun 11 00:28:24 ok got it Jun 11 00:28:37 no-lifeguard-reset (though I think that's a maemo software watchdog, it doesn't hurt to try) Jun 11 00:28:44 ShadowJK: sorry, reading backscroll, had some battles going on in my garden (drunk assholes and police) Jun 11 00:29:12 damn, dropped my N900 with the USB plugged in again Jun 11 00:29:50 okay guys, one question, did you ever notice on a stock N900, the USB connector is ever so slightly higher on one side? Jun 11 00:30:00 Hurrian, "it's complicated" Jun 11 00:30:40 after reading every single page of the long-ass USB thread, i looked at my connector Jun 11 00:30:52 "oh wow, it's slightly bent" Jun 11 00:30:58 >commence freak out Jun 11 00:31:23 MohammadAG: (speech recog) pocketsphinx Jun 11 00:31:31 although i heard on TMO that they're not really attached straight on Jun 11 00:33:51 MohammadAG: (s2t) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72565 Jun 11 00:36:37 Hurrian: USB is soldered rather poorly, both on adjustment and proper soldering Jun 11 00:37:15 Hurrian: a "bent" USB may indicate it has an immanent problem that may cause complete failure way more easily Jun 11 00:38:00 * DocScrutinizer even thinks 90% of those coming-off incidents are caused by poor soldering Jun 11 00:38:01 uhh, not "bent" as in it wiggles a lot Jun 11 00:38:24 bent as in one side is higher by 1/10ths of 1mm Jun 11 00:38:28 yeah, just slightly non-parallel to the case Jun 11 00:38:35 exactly Jun 11 00:38:56 they seem to fail to press the component all the way down to PCB when soldering Jun 11 00:39:38 of all components, nokia decides to screw up the charging/data transfer port Jun 11 00:39:44 making for a gap between PCB mech support pads and the support levers, which is more or less filled with solder then Jun 11 00:40:01 guess i better encase the USB port with hot glue Jun 11 00:40:12 under, over and on the sides Jun 11 00:40:13 doesn't help a lot Jun 11 00:40:25 doesn't help at all actually Jun 11 00:40:38 if it's gonna break, it's gonna break Jun 11 00:40:45 yowch Jun 11 00:40:59 this is the 5th fall of my N900 with the USB in Jun 11 00:41:28 next time charge it on the floor? :) Jun 11 00:41:35 and nokia still doesnt want to answer what batch they fixed it? Jun 11 00:42:11 nox-, letting it fall is better than stepping on it Jun 11 00:42:25 well, under the sofa then or something Jun 11 00:42:26 just sayin Jun 11 00:42:34 mine's a December batch (2nd one I think) Jun 11 00:42:50 dec 2009? Jun 11 00:42:59 yeah Jun 11 00:43:25 December 18th if I remember correctly Jun 11 00:43:33 it was out of stock before that Jun 11 00:43:39 how do you find that out? i think mine doesnt at least need much force un/plugging the usb if thats the same problem... Jun 11 00:43:49 mine was made in mid-feb 2010, and was in storage for a very, very long time Jun 11 00:44:01 i bought it in mid-feb 2011 Jun 11 00:44:32 nox-, it was out of stock, so it surely came in a new batch Jun 11 00:44:42 and it hasn't fell out - yet Jun 11 00:44:53 fallen*, whatever Jun 11 00:44:56 this is wierd it says there is no no-retu-wd flag Jun 11 00:45:45 MohammadAG, well i only remember some ppl having issues needing much force un/plugging, and then breaking the connector that way... Jun 11 00:46:10 nox- , are you pulling the usb with your nondominant hand around the N900, and 2/3 fingers from your dominant hand around the USB connector? Jun 11 00:46:35 i find that by doing it that way, i reduce the amount of force needed to pull it out Jun 11 00:46:43 hmm Jun 11 00:47:28 mine doesnt need much force either way... Jun 11 00:47:32 and from my experience with the N95's AV-out cable, pulling the cable is a very bad idea Jun 11 00:48:06 yeah always better to grab the plug not the cable Jun 11 00:48:15 Hurrian, two N900s here, the new requires more force in the same way Jun 11 00:48:22 oh Jun 11 00:48:41 what's the new one's hw revision? Jun 11 00:48:48 1) the charger's two pins or whatever (clips?) get weaker Jun 11 00:48:59 both are 2101 Jun 11 00:49:03 ah Jun 11 00:49:14 how do you check the hw revision again? Jun 11 00:49:18 cpuinfo Jun 11 00:49:22 2) whatever clips on the inside gets weaker Jun 11 00:49:29 cat /proc/cpuinfo Jun 11 00:49:39 MAG, i can confirm that 1) is true Jun 11 00:49:44 2204 Jun 11 00:50:07 the charger cable's pins are squishy, unlike the usb data cable which is still strong Jun 11 00:50:13 Hurrian: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 Jun 11 00:50:22 for obvious reasons, you know why ;) Jun 11 00:51:26 the data cable is actually weaker than the charger for me Jun 11 00:51:42 MAG: reflashing a lot? :) Jun 11 00:51:53 DocS: did he scratch out a line on the PCB? Jun 11 00:51:59 confirmed, data cable needs a little more force Jun 11 00:52:25 Hurrian, 28 times when I was a noob :p Jun 11 00:52:33 :) Jun 11 00:53:00 MAG: i'm seriously tempted to disable watchdogs Jun 11 00:53:18 been in R&D mode since umm, June Jun 11 00:53:24 or was it April Jun 11 00:53:31 DocScrutinizer, what, press down components? I thought they ust placed them on the board and let the boards sit outside in the sun for awhile Jun 11 00:53:34 2010 of course Jun 11 00:53:55 i can't get the flasher-3.6 to toake the no-retu-wd flag? anyone know why? Jun 11 00:54:00 ShadowJK: I think that's exactly what they do ;-D Jun 11 00:55:02 is it ok to paste my small script here so you guys can tell me if i have a typo? Jun 11 00:55:06 ShadowJK : XD Jun 11 00:55:26 i actually laughed in real life Jun 11 00:55:47 it's funny, because it's probably true Jun 11 00:55:49 Thordasin: anything >10 lines will get you in severe troubles Jun 11 00:56:02 no its about 8 Jun 11 00:56:07 #!/bin/bash Jun 11 00:56:07 arg1="--enable-rd-mode" Jun 11 00:56:07 arg2="--set-rd-flag=no-lifeguard-reset" Jun 11 00:56:07 arg3="--set-rd-flag=no-omap-wd" Jun 11 00:56:07 arg4="--set-rd-flag=no-retu-wd" Jun 11 00:56:08 sudo flasher-3.5 $arg1 $arg2 $arg3 $arg4 Jun 11 00:56:10 usually 3 lines are considered max paste, I'd like to accept 10 in this case Jun 11 00:56:53 --set-rd-flags=flag1,flag2,flag3 afaik Jun 11 00:56:58 Thordasin: you need to use -set-rd-flag= only once Jun 11 00:57:07 Some days the sun doesn't shine. That's why USB ports fall out of N900s for no apparent reason Jun 11 00:57:11 yes, exactly what MohammadAG said Jun 11 00:57:22 well itworks on the first two, its only reject arg4 Jun 11 00:58:00 --set-rd-flag without parameters gives a list of known ones Jun 11 00:58:16 oh really Jun 11 00:58:28 yeah, forgot that one Jun 11 00:58:40 the wiki may be wrong Jun 11 00:58:43 easily Jun 11 00:59:11 thats why the web site is wrong Jun 11 00:59:15 k guise, g2g, see you all tomorrow. Jun 11 00:59:18 I actually have a hrd time figuring what's retu anyway Jun 11 00:59:27 and on a side note, WMO is terribly outdated Jun 11 00:59:36 bye :) Jun 11 00:59:56 WTF WMO? Jun 11 01:00:24 so i need no-ext-wd not no-retu-wd right? Jun 11 01:00:56 no-ext-wd,no-omap-wd,no-lifeguard-reset Jun 11 01:01:56 Possible R&D flags: Jun 11 01:01:57 no-omap-wd Jun 11 01:01:59 no-ext-wd Jun 11 01:02:00 no-lifeguard-reset Jun 11 01:02:02 serial-console Jun 11 01:02:03 no-usb-timeout Jun 11 01:02:05 sti-console Jun 11 01:02:06 no-charging Jun 11 01:02:08 force-power-key Jun 11 01:03:13 I think retu been a N8x0 thing Jun 11 01:04:37 i think you miunderstood my question i just asked should i drop no-retu-wd and put in no-ext-wd :) but never mind i hav eit :) Jun 11 01:11:40 oh sheees i think i just bricked my phone, i acidently pull the usb while flashing Jun 11 01:20:21 i think you should be able to flash it again still Jun 11 01:30:50 Thordasin: no problem Jun 11 01:31:16 usually nothing bad will happen, just restart flashing process from beginning Jun 11 01:31:42 wow cat got you gusy tongue :)its wierd it comes on no vibrate and stays on the nokia screen and my flasher is not seeing it Jun 11 01:31:50 o/ Jun 11 01:31:51 in rare cases you might have killed NOLO bootloader, and need to follow coldflashing Jun 11 01:32:30 hmm Jun 11 01:32:43 you're holding the 'u' key, yes? Jun 11 01:33:43 NOKIA screen usually would mean NOLO is ok Jun 11 01:33:56 so flashing should "just work" Jun 11 01:34:20 take care about your battery charging state though! Jun 11 01:34:28 i got it i had to put the battery and us calbe in very close togeather Jun 11 01:34:48 because if yo put the bat in the phone came on with out power switch :) Jun 11 01:34:50 please rephrase Jun 11 01:35:12 yeah, that's R&D mode Jun 11 01:35:44 you should first start flasher, then plug cable, then insert battery Jun 11 01:36:02 ok got that now :) never had to do that before Jun 11 01:36:17 you enabled R&D mode, no? Jun 11 01:36:18 ok kernel i compield is flashed no i have to boot to rescue and copy modules Jun 11 01:36:30 yes Jun 11 01:37:02 I guess that's why it came up on battery insert Jun 11 01:38:34 (actually I think it always "powers up" on battery insert, then reads rd-flags from CAL storage, and usually goes back to off state in a few milliseconds Jun 11 01:38:36 ) Jun 11 01:39:42 that make since Jun 11 01:40:42 there's also force-power-key that's somehow related Jun 11 01:40:49 it won't flash until i snap the back on :) Jun 11 01:41:02 I think you can set this parameter to revert to old behaviour despite R&D Jun 11 01:42:14 ah that sound s good i'll try it once i test the krnel Jun 11 01:42:34 actually somebody "who should know his stuff" told me about that when my other device's power-button was ill Jun 11 01:43:45 actually he told me "no problem, you can make device boot up on USB insert" Jun 11 01:43:59 and pointed me to force-power-key Jun 11 01:44:17 yeah, insert battery is a bit different Jun 11 01:44:38 but hey, it's for engineers to enable R&D Jun 11 01:45:02 so it makes sense device boots up on bat insert as well, in R&D mode Jun 11 01:45:28 where are these serial pins they talk about i can't find them Jun 11 01:46:07 serial pins? are located in a recession under battery, some copper pads on PCB Jun 11 01:47:16 there are some D and parallelogram shaped appertures in the steel under battery. The pads are there Jun 11 01:48:36 almost impossible to contact without a specially designed service jig Jun 11 01:49:39 even then you need a level converter as that's low-voltage serial (RS232) Jun 11 01:49:48 can you explain better useing bat pins, simholde wall bottom to give me a refrence please? Jun 11 01:50:05 i have a bus priate Jun 11 01:50:10 pirate :) Jun 11 01:50:38 I have to look up for the correct pins, there are some dozen there Jun 11 01:51:01 really where? i don't see any pinse but the bat pins Jun 11 01:51:07 will take a while, if you're willing to wait Jun 11 01:51:24 there are holes in the steel under the battery Jun 11 01:51:48 sure i'll be here but tell me where the doxen are its killing me that everyone says there here and i can't find them Jun 11 01:52:14 check for the holes in stell bottom under battery Jun 11 01:52:21 underneath Jun 11 01:52:28 http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://dailymobile.pl/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/nokia-n900-disassembly.JPG&imgrefurl=http://dailymobile.pl/2009/12/05/rozkrec-swoja-nokie-n900/&usg=__hnuDODnFwLc8M8_3tQpg0NqntmI=&h=305&w=500&sz=18&hl=en&start=30&sig2=fTZErRa-BvzsSW0JEY3oPw&zoom=1&tbnid=xgyZtGzERSd3WM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=206&ei=F8ryTfqqPNKZhQev1ujHBg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dn900%2Bdisassembly%2Bpic%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1352%26bih%3D929%26tbm% Jun 11 01:52:33 you need to remove battery, the find them Jun 11 01:52:36 oh god Jun 11 01:52:45 http://dailymobile.pl/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/nokia-n900-disassembly.JPG Jun 11 01:52:46 indeed Jun 11 01:52:47 >.< Jun 11 01:52:56 yes there are many wholes, is the little round on up at the top to the right of the bat, or the big u shaped slit lower down Jun 11 01:53:23 th elittle round one has two pads D+/- of USB Jun 11 01:53:50 the other dozens are on the "slit" Jun 11 01:54:48 ah, so holding the phone with the camer away the slit looks like a u which pin is for serial? Jun 11 01:56:16 it's one long parallelogram shaped hole to the middle, and two D shaped ones (trapezoid) next to left wall of battery compartment Jun 11 01:56:26 wow i had to turn r&d off to get the rescue image to work Jun 11 01:56:49 have to look up for the right pins for serial Jun 11 01:57:00 will take time as I need to find the wiki page Jun 11 01:57:26 sure sorry, thought it was on that picture you were looking at :) Jun 11 01:57:39 oh, there's also a small square hole next to the "round" one - it's just "nothing" Jun 11 01:57:54 no, I'm talking from my memory Jun 11 01:58:12 not now though, opened up device ;-) Jun 11 01:58:35 as I never "looked" at it without using my eyes ;-) Jun 11 01:59:03 is that the link ur after http://wiki.maemo.org/Compiling_the_kernel Jun 11 01:59:13 down the bottom 'serial console' Jun 11 01:59:23 the D+/- hole is close right to the plastic nose up center Jun 11 02:00:22 fusi[n900]: indeed, though that's not the best *picture*, it is actually ideal for Thordasin Jun 11 02:00:41 better img of the back: http://muare1.vcmedia.vn/images/30/IMG_008c_1282226561.jpg Jun 11 02:00:59 ill stop spamming crud to channel now ^^ Jun 11 02:01:02 o/ Jun 11 02:01:04 there where this FCC photos which where pretty detailed Jun 11 02:01:41 actually that page is about N8x0 Jun 11 02:01:49 just realised that :( Jun 11 02:01:52 sorry Jun 11 02:02:02 np, help appreciated Jun 11 02:02:31 :) Jun 11 02:02:35 so i did not understand where the pads are, could you start at the uper elft of the u and count pads around the u to the right. Jun 11 02:02:36 DocScrutinizer: the usb under the battery is that a 2nd usb or just the same as on the socket? Jun 11 02:03:14 same as on socket Jun 11 02:03:39 found it for n900: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking - scroll down to debug ports Jun 11 02:03:46 yes, that one Jun 11 02:03:50 ok thanks Jun 11 02:05:19 Thordasin: you "see" http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking the "Here are the pad names..." Jun 11 02:05:22 ? Jun 11 02:06:04 sorry was trying to figure out why my rescue image won't work anymore. Jun 11 02:06:40 checking it now Jun 11 02:06:49 the " + J5301 " is the upper of both D+/- pads, you have to hold device with cam to the left to get same orientation as on this diagram Jun 11 02:07:39 ok Jun 11 02:09:47 gl, i gotta shoot o/ x Jun 11 02:09:52 i book marked it thats going to take some serious study for a blind man :) Jun 11 02:09:57 o/ and thanks Jun 11 02:10:56 I'm afk for a bit Jun 11 02:11:05 Thordasin: ping me if any questions Jun 11 02:12:19 ok thanks i think i'm awk for a bit as well my ack is killing me :) Jun 11 02:12:29 oops afk :) Jun 11 02:17:20 Can Windows application UIs be less consistent, please? Jun 11 02:17:39 even less? Jun 11 02:17:42 ;-P Jun 11 02:18:00 or are you talking about consitant annoyance? Jun 11 02:19:04 The web browsers change every version. Jun 11 02:19:09 It's becoming ridiculous. Jun 11 02:19:15 If you're going to try to ape Apple all the time Jun 11 02:19:20 at least try to do it not-shit. Jun 11 02:19:52 I always found windows sucks consistently Jun 11 02:19:59 Yes. Jun 11 02:20:09 But I know there's going to be a time when I need it on my laptop. Jun 11 02:20:33 I feel with you, been there done that Jun 11 02:20:48 there are those industry tools... :-S Jun 11 02:21:25 mentorgraphics PADS for example Jun 11 02:22:06 you're pretty much at "use it or quit the job", if your company decided that's what you develop hw on Jun 11 02:23:00 and actually there's rarely any comarable tool on linux Jun 11 02:23:10 comparable* Jun 11 02:25:44 yes, my jobs often bought crap dev tools Jun 11 02:26:07 but i got to play with logic analyzers and ICEs Jun 11 02:30:50 So, round two. Jun 11 02:31:04 The Ubuntu installer still doesn't see that I installed Windows. Jun 11 02:31:06 * GeneralAntilles cries. Jun 11 02:48:05 http://www.mentor.com/products/pcb-system-design/design-flows/pads/pads-pcb-viewer Jun 11 02:48:11 for an example Jun 11 02:53:48 dangergrrl: yeah, had that weird project where I developed a PCB on Eagle for linux, but the atmel flasher worked on genuine DOS only Jun 11 02:54:07 was a nightmare to keep the project files in sync and one place Jun 11 02:56:43 well, you have an EE you probebly got to do more fun stuff than me Jun 11 02:56:52 just for the laughs and giggles you had to throttle the processor for flashing, as there's been a hard delay coded into the flasher program, that didn't work on contemporary 486 any more Jun 11 02:57:05 i did unix kernel and embedded work for a long time though Jun 11 02:57:13 lol **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 11 02:59:57 2011