**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 12 02:59:56 2011 Jun 12 03:23:39 SpeedEvil, fresh food works better for me. Jun 12 03:23:55 I don't do well at "Use up what's in storage" Jun 12 03:25:13 GAN900: I mean stuff like pasta and flour and oil and bacon - stuff that's going to be quite edible for 6 months, and I'm unlikely to stop eating. Jun 12 03:25:41 Ah, yeah. Jun 12 03:26:01 I tend to stock up on such when it goes buy-one-get-one. Jun 12 03:26:21 Recently got 26Kg of pasta, as it was half price. Jun 12 03:26:26 Which helps too. Jun 12 03:29:46 Cooking for one is still the worst, though. Jun 12 03:30:23 yeah. Hence my other defence - cooking _massive pots of delicious stuff, and portioning it. Jun 12 03:32:45 I never bother to freeze cooked stuff. So it usually means three days of eating the same thing. Jun 12 03:32:59 good morning Jun 12 03:33:18 spent all night trying to get libpurple-twitter-protocol working Jun 12 03:33:53 some dood called mikage has an oauth version 0.8.0 Jun 12 03:34:07 trying to hack it into compiling Jun 12 03:34:11 in esbox :x Jun 12 03:35:49 There's no libdouche? Jun 12 03:36:13 I'm incredibly disappointed by the open source community. Jun 12 03:36:26 mm? Jun 12 03:38:00 waah nvm time for a reefa then bed o/ Jun 12 03:54:39 all hail to B-52's party mix!! Jun 12 03:55:16 GAN900: But if you do it right, that's 3 (or 15) days spread out at one a week Jun 12 03:56:17 (stil pondering if hunger or 11°C is worse ;-P) Jun 12 03:57:33 so please stop talking food or I'll gonna shake Jun 12 04:15:05 SpeedEvil, yeah, but I fail. Jun 12 04:15:33 * DocScrutinizer epically Jun 12 04:16:31 * DocScrutinizer considers "cooking" another coffee, the only thing ever "cooked" here Jun 12 06:40:19 word Jun 12 06:40:21 hi Jun 12 06:44:10 word Jun 12 06:50:25 Moo Macer Jun 12 06:51:01 mooo Jun 12 07:06:38 super moo Jun 12 07:49:21 wow, netsplit Jun 12 07:50:52 wb Jun 12 08:30:21 good morning Jun 12 08:42:52 morning Venemo Jun 12 08:42:58 morning lardman Jun 12 08:53:20 morning Venemo lardman Jun 12 08:53:30 hey hiemanshu :) Jun 12 09:25:16 If you have a Boolean expression broken down into a tree structure, can one economise on finding the element states knowing the exact Boolean conditions Jun 12 09:25:45 yes is the answer, but it means evaluating the state of each child element individually and then using that to save evaluating the next one Jun 12 09:26:07 hmm, sorry for the noise, started making sense when I started writing it down Jun 12 09:31:47 is XOR useful for Proximus? Jun 12 10:08:04 right onto rules and how they should be conveyed to the proximus daemon Jun 12 10:08:23 I'm thinking DBus for the comms, as that will also allow external apps to easily use the service Jun 12 10:08:46 in terms of the rules: textual rules like SQL statements is my first thought Jun 12 10:08:49 any other ideas? Jun 12 10:10:17 * lardman wonders about shortcuts to parser writing and establishing a syntax Jun 12 10:13:52 lardman: What would you like to parse? Jun 12 10:15:58 RST38h: rules Jun 12 10:16:02 ;) Jun 12 10:16:07 hang on a tick let me find the link Jun 12 10:16:32 http://wiki.maemo.org/Proximus Jun 12 10:17:19 also need to establish names of conditions (like wifi_connected) and also allow users to provide their own Jun 12 10:17:29 lardman:Ok, first hint: you do not want syntax that will require your parser to back up and reconsider. Jun 12 10:17:37 either via DBus commands, or by providing plugins Jun 12 10:17:47 ok Jun 12 10:18:20 I should be able to split everything out using brackets for the grouping, then split on boolean operators Jun 12 10:18:22 lardman: Second hint: const char *SkipWS(const char *P), const char *Match(const char *P,const char *Word), const char *GetInt(const char *P,int *N) Jun 12 10:18:41 lardman: And your parse will look like this: Jun 12 10:18:52 const char *Parse(const char *P) { Jun 12 10:19:03 P = P? SkipWS(P):0; Jun 12 10:19:14 P = P? Match(P,"keyword"):0; Jun 12 10:19:26 P = P? GetInt(P,&Arg):0; Jun 12 10:19:27 ... Jun 12 10:19:32 return(!!P); Jun 12 10:19:49 Am I making myself clear? =) Jun 12 10:19:53 hmm Jun 12 10:19:54 ;) Jun 12 10:20:01 I will sit down and have a look at that Jun 12 10:20:37 Basically, you want todevelop a bunch of functions that match keywors and extract args Jun 12 10:20:39 I'm hopful that the parsing should be quite simple, as it will require brackets and Boolean ops to break up things Jun 12 10:20:45 yes Jun 12 10:20:50 Andthen use them in a simple linear fashion I have shown above Jun 12 10:21:02 So that it stays very clear and easy tomodify Jun 12 10:21:04 sounds like a sound plan Jun 12 10:21:14 Well, it worked for me, multiple times. Jun 12 10:21:53 ok, so what about using brackets for grouping and to contain fn arguments? Jun 12 10:22:03 same brackets, or would I be wise to use different ones? Jun 12 10:22:19 goes like this: Jun 12 10:23:03 const char *Parse(const char *Text,const char *Terminators) Jun 12 10:23:18 when you encounter a bracket, you do this: Jun 12 10:24:43 if(*P=='[') { P=Parse(P+1,"]");P = P? P+1:0; } Jun 12 10:24:55 I.e. your parser becomes recursive Jun 12 10:25:23 Upper level gets called as Parse(Text,0) (i.e. no additional terminating symbols to match) Jun 12 10:26:02 ok Jun 12 10:26:14 Same goesfor all other types of brackets Jun 12 10:26:53 * lardman wonders if Qt has a parser inbuilt already Jun 12 10:26:55 Shit, can I somehow develop for Android *without* Eclipse???? Jun 12 10:27:06 lardman: hehehe Jun 12 10:27:24 * lardman has to go to a midwife's appointment, bbl to continue Jun 12 10:27:39 RST38h: read up on what functions are still not removed in Bionic Jun 12 10:27:54 What is Bionic? Jun 12 10:28:32 the replacement for glibc Jun 12 10:29:35 it's google incompatible libc Jun 12 10:34:04 * ZogG is away: going for few weeks to army Jun 12 10:34:26 * RST38h is moreconcerned about how tocompile the damn project Jun 12 11:59:49 MohammadAG: pong (sry, summer parties + metal festivals lead to a lot of lag) Jun 12 12:00:14 (morning everyone !) Jun 12 12:00:32 \o Jun 12 12:24:50 In marble, what's the left-most button of those 4 good for? the one with 3 roads and an 'i' in the middle. It's always greyed out. Also, how can I most easily send my gps coordinates via sms? Jun 12 12:41:22 Can I install CSSU in the scratchbox or will it damage my environment? Jun 12 12:51:41 gri: hold on, why can't you just copy it? Jun 12 12:52:15 kerio: You mean compiling everything myself? Jun 12 12:52:23 no, i mean Jun 12 12:52:29 what's your scratchbox environment? Jun 12 12:52:30 isn't it a VM? Jun 12 12:52:37 It is Jun 12 12:53:02 so copy it Jun 12 12:53:04 I just wanted to ask if anyone ever tried before wasting time Jun 12 12:53:05 and try to install cssu Jun 12 12:53:14 Info Notice: Next week, the MeeGo N900 Community edition will be testing direct import of Maemo contacts Jun 12 12:53:53 so testing meego for day to day use will be much easier since all your favourite people will be on the device :) Jun 12 13:26:02 yawn Jun 12 13:28:19 http://twitpic.com/5adya1 Jun 12 13:29:03 Another twitter client? Jun 12 13:29:54 no just trrying to get the ibpurple pluginn working Jun 12 13:30:09 ah Jun 12 13:30:36 :) Jun 12 13:50:46 what would be the normal way of triggering some event on the 2nd of every month? Jun 12 13:50:57 within an application written using Qt Jun 12 13:52:06 apparently a QTimer can last ~24 days, so doing weekly events is doable, but things longer than that would presumably use some sort of shorter timer which resets itself as it gets closer? Jun 12 13:52:14 lardman, does Qt have signals/slots for the female menstrual cycle? Jun 12 13:52:19 like the 770's timer iirc which couldn't even manage 24h Jun 12 13:52:33 lcuk: I thought that was like 28 days?! Jun 12 13:53:07 lardman, IT CAN BE AS LONG AS I SAY IT CAN BE! Jun 12 13:53:10 anyway any thoughts? Jun 12 13:53:26 when I asked about similar, isn't there the shell script "at" command Jun 12 13:53:36 but I heard it was not implemented on maemo Jun 12 13:53:44 well there's crond too Jun 12 13:53:49 I have in the past just had an app running Jun 12 13:54:00 with an icon in the thing near the clock Jun 12 13:54:20 and a sleep 1hr/check the date Jun 12 13:54:40 speaking of which, I need to fix liqcalendar Jun 12 13:54:40 yeah I guess I'll have to do something like that Jun 12 13:55:30 lardman, problem with that is Jun 12 13:55:36 if user closes it Jun 12 13:55:56 if they close it that's fine as it needs to be left running Jun 12 13:56:06 lardman: cron? Jun 12 13:56:07 that is the point Jun 12 13:56:07 and if they shut it down they obviously don't want the functionality Jun 12 13:56:25 fusi[n901]: yeah Jun 12 13:56:29 * lcuk would hope the functionality would be sustained Jun 12 13:56:36 just closing window Jun 12 13:56:44 this is a daemon Jun 12 13:56:52 so they would have to kill it explicitly Jun 12 13:56:53 then that is ok Jun 12 13:57:10 is this the windows/linux app? Jun 12 13:57:11 ah ye u said crond yer Jun 12 13:57:13 or specifically maemo Jun 12 13:57:31 the interesting point then becomes whether to start a single timer for each event, or to use some timer which is a factor of the desired timers Jun 12 13:57:55 id use asingle timer Jun 12 13:58:01 less resiurce Jun 12 13:58:03 lcuk: maemo Jun 12 13:58:27 but im not a Dr :p Jun 12 13:58:51 fusi[n901]: well I am, and I'm asking too :) Jun 12 13:59:24 hehe Jun 12 13:59:32 to use a single timer which is e.g. a daily (assuming I have both daily, weekly and monthly events) would make the logic more complex Jun 12 13:59:54 but that's trading off against the extra resource use of timer per event Jun 12 14:00:05 could wrap it Jun 12 14:00:11 probably best to go with the easiest case first Jun 12 14:00:23 kiss eh Jun 12 14:00:27 fusi[n901]: sure, but Qt probably does that already anyway Jun 12 14:00:50 fair point Jun 12 14:01:24 rightio Jun 12 14:01:42 time for me tocrack on with this oauth Jun 12 14:01:46 toodlepip Jun 12 14:01:53 cu :) Jun 12 14:03:04 hi guys Jun 12 14:03:31 does anyone know how to get the damn signond service running on the sbox env? Jun 12 14:31:31 ok i give up ... trying to develop for maemo absolutely sucks Jun 12 14:31:48 what a bunch of complete fucking idiots nokia are Jun 12 14:31:54 outty Jun 12 14:34:30 lol Jun 12 14:34:32 oh Jun 12 14:34:43 Well he's not tried developing for Meego yet Jun 12 14:34:58 and from what RST38h says Android is a step worse even than that Jun 12 14:42:04 I quite fancy a croissant Jun 12 14:42:12 slightly ot I know Jun 12 14:59:13 Hi. There's info missing in the maemo SDK install page - the scratchbox shell script also requires you to specify a path for scratchbox to be installed to. Jun 12 15:02:37 FIQ: it's a wiki, fix it :) Jun 12 15:34:00 Wacky. Jun 12 15:34:11 I just got a banner ad from nokia pointing me to a n900 on contract Jun 12 15:34:37 http://www.nokiadirect.co.uk/Pay-Monthly/sc521/p26078.htm Jun 12 15:35:24 :D Jun 12 15:35:55 I think it's a cockup, not reality though Jun 12 15:36:04 It does say in-stock on the page - but ... Jun 12 15:36:07 shame, I need to get luke a new phone soon Jun 12 15:36:21 wtf Jun 12 15:36:37 i hope it is a cockup Jun 12 15:36:54 bought this simfree only couple of months ago Jun 12 15:37:04 300quid Jun 12 15:37:13 and im on tmob Jun 12 15:37:19 and due an upgrade Jun 12 15:37:32 tried to get b4 but there were none anywhere Jun 12 15:38:00 took me ages to find one on theorder.co.uk as clearance Jun 12 15:38:51 why? Jun 12 15:39:01 mine cost the same Jun 12 15:39:05 £25/month Jun 12 15:39:10 on shitty tmobile Jun 12 15:39:32 It's not showing any more. Jun 12 15:39:38 On the nokia shop Jun 12 15:39:45 (not the nokia direct site) Jun 12 15:40:16 nokiadirect is a sort of frontend i guess Jun 12 15:41:17 hmm Jun 12 15:41:21 mmm Jun 12 15:41:27 just wondering, what is vdso exactly? Jun 12 15:41:41 the maemo SDK didn't work if i didn't put vdso32=0 as boot option Jun 12 15:41:45 a nasty infection i hear Jun 12 15:41:46 but what IS it? Jun 12 15:41:55 :p Jun 12 15:42:02 (x86_64, that is) Jun 12 15:42:06 nfi soz Jun 12 15:44:22 waaah dead batt Jun 12 15:44:32 o/ x Jun 12 16:31:18 Hm, trying to reflash my N900, but I'm gettitng the "Unable to enumerate USB buses!" error from flasher. I've blacklisted cdc_phonet and rmmoded it (since it was already loaded), but this doesn't seem to help. Are there any other possible causes for this message? Jun 12 16:31:54 you're root? Jun 12 16:31:57 Yup Jun 12 16:32:10 And you've plugged it directly in, not a hub? Jun 12 16:32:14 Some have reported issues Jun 12 16:32:16 Hm Jun 12 16:32:27 Directly plugged in, though it's plugged to a USB3 port, I just realised.. Jun 12 16:32:32 Let me try a USB2 one Jun 12 16:33:28 Nope, same message Jun 12 16:34:19 Nope, same message Jun 12 16:34:28 oops, up+enter in wrong window.. Jun 12 16:35:43 I assume you've googled the error? Jun 12 16:36:27 Yeah, I did. Only found references to the cdc_phonet module and libusb being outdated Jun 12 16:36:38 It seems my libusb is up-to-date at least Jun 12 16:36:43 Sorry - no great ideas - it's always just worked for me. Jun 12 16:37:04 You could post your n900 to me with a stamped addressed envelope, I'd flash it, and return it. :) Jun 12 16:37:40 I think I'll try flashing it from some other computer instead, that'd probably be cheaper.. :P Jun 12 16:42:46 <_trine> FireFly, I dont want to state the obvious but you have kept the 'u' key pressed when you boot the n900 havent you? Jun 12 16:42:57 I did Jun 12 16:43:28 <_trine> do you see the usb icon in the top righthand corner of the n900 Jun 12 16:43:53 Yep, seems to be there Jun 12 16:44:15 <_trine> well that means its waiting for the flasher Jun 12 16:44:58 Huh, apparently running flasher after it's in flasher-waiting mode seems to work Jun 12 16:45:04 Hopefully I didn't screw anything up Jun 12 16:45:22 <_trine> well that should be it Jun 12 16:45:39 <_trine> sudo /usr/bin/flasher-3.5 -F -f -R Jun 12 16:46:07 <_trine> or there is a different methos for using on a 64 bit computer Jun 12 16:46:13 <_trine> method* Jun 12 16:48:02 ~flash Jun 12 16:48:02 i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jun 12 16:48:42 * _trine flashes but his zip gets stuck :P Jun 12 17:02:52 I'd like to know which funny fool started to call the content of a linux rootfs "firmware" Jun 12 17:03:52 Blurring the lines. Jun 12 17:04:40 <_trine> DocScrutinizer, probably people like me who flash routers Jun 12 17:04:47 indeed Jun 12 17:06:07 one of the criteria of firmware is that it's impossible to alter it by user except for using a special flasher(-device). Evidently the N900 can alter his own "firmware" without needing special means Jun 12 17:07:01 <_trine> well my routers are an halfway house in that respect Jun 12 17:07:36 <_trine> insomuch as you flash the firmware and it then creates rootfs_data Jun 12 17:07:51 I'd happily call NOLO and cal firmware code and config data Jun 12 17:09:20 maybe tht's been unparsable Jun 12 17:09:39 NOLO and cal I'd happily call firmware code and config data Jun 12 17:11:13 <_trine> well we haven't heard any screams of anguish so FireFly must have succeeded Jun 12 17:11:28 obviously cmt has a firmware by all metrics Jun 12 17:11:29 Indeed Jun 12 17:11:40 Thanks for the help btw Jun 12 17:11:46 <_trine> np Jun 12 17:12:59 <_trine> I only operate on extremely low level problems Jun 12 17:13:01 <_trine> :) Jun 12 17:13:12 and iirc our rootfs *has* firmware for WLAN and BT chip Jun 12 17:21:28 wow, the guy minting the title of that article was really ahead of his time regarding nomenclature ;-) >>Opler, Ascher: Fourth-Generation Software. In: Datamation. 13, Nr. 1, Januar 1967<< Jun 12 18:20:33 /msg thp Hello, i read on some google group and other obscur mailing list that you was trying to package pyapps for webos, does this app can be distributed by the hp webos store ? Jun 12 18:20:36 grrrr Jun 12 18:21:01 hehe :) Jun 12 18:21:02 Hello Jun 12 18:24:03 hey Jun 12 18:24:30 testing it over my NDS Jun 12 18:25:11 not so bad ... dev palm pr� : 277,227409 euros Jun 12 18:28:09 can anyone tell me if i can shut off the automaticilly-checking-for-updates thing? Jun 12 18:28:12 it's really annoying Jun 12 18:28:39 I read about this Jun 12 18:28:46 apparently you cant, but you can change the interval Jun 12 18:29:57 gconftool -s --type int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval Jun 12 18:29:57 oh Jun 12 18:30:05 changing it to every century seems fair Jun 12 18:30:14 once every century* Jun 12 18:30:16 just remove the applet Jun 12 18:30:59 removing the applet disables the check Jun 12 18:32:05 and the applet is named...? Jun 12 18:37:14 FIQ: see customizing_maemo wikipage Jun 12 18:38:20 I think removing applets indiscriminately isn't recommended Jun 12 18:39:10 Well, I just incerased it Jun 12 18:39:20 you might face side effects you can't relate to the applet removal and you won't know how to deal with those Jun 12 18:39:36 the check time, i mean Jun 12 18:39:40 to 8640000 (didn't know it readed in minutes at first) Jun 12 18:43:41 please check the wiki page - there's some upper value that mustn't get exceeded Jun 12 18:48:15 i know it's an int, it is specified in the command Jun 12 18:48:33 and i take that as it is an 32-bit signed int Jun 12 18:48:45 and i seems to be correct, when i checked the wiki Jun 12 18:51:20 yeah, signed is one of the keywords, plus I seem to recall the applet and system blowing chunks on some arbitrary upper limit exceeded - I might be wrong Jun 12 18:53:07 there also might be issues this int being represented binary coded decimal somewhere, so sth like a max of 9999 for a value of bitsize sufficient for 32768... whatever, you'll see Jun 12 18:56:02 in tech speak we call this 4.5 digits Jun 12 19:13:49 * MohammadAG gives KDE a try, Gnome sucks on Ubuntu 11.04 Jun 12 19:14:43 Moo all Jun 12 19:16:55 also I love ubuntu forums, rm -rf ~/.gconf2/apps/whatever was posted as rm -rf ~/ .gconf Jun 12 19:17:11 luckily I noticed the space and CTRL^C'd quickly, I'm guessing I lost some stuff though Jun 12 19:17:16 moo RST38h Jun 12 19:17:37 nice advice! Jun 12 19:21:25 MohammadAG: how's KDE then? Jun 12 19:24:07 KDE is awesome Jun 12 19:24:33 only problem with KDE, they haven't fixed the KWin, Intel issue, so it won't run on my desktop :/ Jun 12 19:24:43 s/desktop/laptop/ Jun 12 19:24:43 hiemanshu meant: only problem with KDE, they haven't fixed the KWin, Intel issue, so it won't run on my laptop :/ Jun 12 19:39:33 lardman, seems fun to use Jun 12 19:39:42 transitions are quite neat Jun 12 19:43:25 does that require something to be installed? Jun 12 19:44:38 sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop Jun 12 19:45:26 is there any program on N900 which can encrypt my text file? Jun 12 19:48:21 encrypt like...? ROT-13? Jun 12 19:48:37 thanks MohammadAG Jun 12 19:50:18 andre__: something which can password protect the file. Jun 12 19:50:43 andre__: i want to save personal info in the text file like bank accnt numbers etc Jun 12 19:50:57 I remember that there was some tool that I once tested... hmm, what was the name... Jun 12 19:51:14 passwordsafe maybe? Jun 12 19:51:25 andre__: pySafe? Jun 12 19:51:29 hmm, not exactly what you are looking for Jun 12 19:52:38 there's a built-in program named gpg Jun 12 19:54:57 psycho_oreos: ah, gpg would do it. thanks for the reminder Jun 12 19:55:04 nw Jun 12 19:56:22 uh, gpg is built in? Jun 12 19:56:55 afaik it is, its required at least by apt-get Jun 12 19:57:24 crap. and I never realized. sigh :-( Jun 12 19:57:38 andre__: me too :) Jun 12 19:57:48 * andre__ closes https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4192 Jun 12 19:57:49 04Bug 4192: GPG/PGP support Jun 12 19:57:55 we all learn someting new Jun 12 19:58:11 ah damn, that ticket is only about email. Jun 12 19:58:14 * andre__ shuts up Jun 12 19:59:14 I'd guess so, for apt at least Jun 12 20:00:19 lol Jun 12 20:01:37 * lardman restarts to see the kde goodness, bbl Jun 12 20:28:32 MohammadAG: stay away from buntkuh, it's for lusers Jun 12 20:29:30 real men don't use buntkuh, hell they refuse to even touch it Jun 12 20:34:47 :((( Jun 12 20:37:57 GAN900: what do you expect when a billionaire "buys" (read hijacks) linux to form it to sth where he's the emperor? Jun 12 20:39:45 DocScrutinizer: Is "buntkuh" some form of 12 year old's "humorous" slagging off of Ubuntu? Jun 12 20:40:07 >>of course each fresh CD-RW you buy at any shop now comes with a install copy of buntkuh, but we're not forcing anyone to anything, you're still free to use the distro you like<< Jun 12 20:41:03 Jaffa: is it your age and the unwillingness to wear glasses that makes you think you need to insist in my age being 12? Jun 12 20:42:07 Jaffa: no, it's just a common error my auto spellchecker does each time I try to write buntkuh Jun 12 20:42:13 see, did it again Jun 12 20:45:59 DocScrutinizer: I didn't say you were 12, I asked if "buntkuh" was the sort of thing a 12 year old would come up with when trying to rearrange the letters of Ubuntu to be close to "but[t] cunt". Jun 12 20:47:00 buntkuh is an unusual other German word for fleckvieh, a checkered cow Jun 12 20:48:20 also there's the idiom of "known like a colored cow" in german, which is "bunte kuh" Jun 12 20:48:45 Ah, I see. Jun 12 20:50:04 so you see my spellchecker has quite a bit if wit Jun 12 20:50:12 of* Jun 12 20:52:11 especially since there's the notorious Kubuntu which sounds like "Kuh bunt (uh)" here Jun 12 20:56:01 whatever... http://xkcd.com/424/ Jun 12 20:59:19 and anyway, google buntkuh, google fleckvieh is your friend Jun 12 21:01:49 DocScrutinizer, sorry, no other sane systems Jun 12 21:04:17 awesome forum software replacing *each* "ass" by *** X-P http://www.foonews.info/de-sci-biologie/2851718-buntkuh.html Jun 12 21:07:12 hahaha Jun 12 21:13:16 hello world Jun 12 21:13:17 DocScrutinizer, that is cl***ic Jun 12 21:13:26 * timeless is getting to love BlackBerry Jun 12 21:13:34 or in the terms of other software: that is clbuttic Jun 12 21:13:49 timeless, do you have a raised eyebrow? Jun 12 21:13:57 lcuk: makes for some h***le when reading Jun 12 21:14:05 Unlike my n8, there's a Google Mobile App for BlackBerry (there used to be one for Symbian, but I think Google dropped it) Jun 12 21:14:14 lcuk: why do you ask? Jun 12 21:14:55 there used to be one for j2me too Jun 12 21:14:56 did you not expect a polished experience? Jun 12 21:15:05 lcuk: oh Jun 12 21:15:10 i had no expectations to be honest Jun 12 21:15:25 i mean, i had a basic hope "it has to be better than Symbian" Jun 12 21:15:29 good approach Jun 12 21:15:56 * timeless didn't pay *any* attn to rim news until after joining Jun 12 21:16:35 most things are much better here Jun 12 21:16:54 unfortunately i've found a couple of apps which don't seem quite interested in dying and i'm not quite sure yet how to kill them Jun 12 21:16:59 but i'm sure i'll figure it out Jun 12 21:19:56 oh, unlike my n8, the BlackBerry Torch has a green button that one can use for search in google apps... Jun 12 21:20:18 * timeless chuckles @nokia's lack of a green button and how that totally ruined google's clever ui for voice search) Jun 12 21:24:26 green button? Jun 12 21:24:33 buttons are so yesterday Jun 12 21:26:20 Yeah - this is the interface of the future. He's writing an email. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYFDYX4i2EY Jun 12 21:31:10 grr Jun 12 21:32:01 LOL, maybe for mobile this interface is better? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcaslP9ODAk&feature=related Jun 12 21:32:39 anyone know why i'm getting a 1% fee while trying to send money from paypal[finland] to paypal[USA/Canada]? Jun 12 21:32:45 SpeedEvil: the one you suggested is a bit hard to use e.g. in subway ;-) Jun 12 21:33:10 kerio: i'll have to find a picture of the ui at some point, or take a photo, i might actually have a photo of it in my n8 gallery on facebook Jun 12 21:33:16 if you haven't looked at the gallery, please do :) Jun 12 21:33:17 timeless: currency conversion? Jun 12 21:33:51 doc: nope, i have currency in EUR and USD and my recipient accounts can all take USD and i set up the CA one to take EUR Jun 12 21:34:11 paypal points me to https://www.paypal.com/fi/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees Jun 12 21:34:18 but there's no sign of a 1% fee anywhere in it Jun 12 21:34:19 so put it away with tag "paypal sucks" Jun 12 21:34:27 DocScrutinizer: Even ideal for multitouch Jun 12 21:36:08 timeless: you know paypal can freeze your account any time, as long as they like, and reject all your complaints with "please sort it out with your neighbour" Jun 12 21:36:25 i know Jun 12 21:36:29 so far i haven't had a problem w/ it Jun 12 21:36:36 and i've managed >40k USD w/ it Jun 12 21:36:48 (downpayment on my Finnish apartment) Jun 12 21:37:56 well, you're lucky Jun 12 21:38:07 can happen to everyone Jun 12 21:38:28 and there's basically nuttin you can do against it Jun 12 21:39:10 they can steal your money, ruin your business, and laugh at your face while doing that - any time they like Jun 12 21:39:20 I'm not a business Jun 12 21:39:35 Doing business using PayPal would be a different story Jun 12 21:39:49 the landlord of your appartment in Finland obviously been though Jun 12 21:39:57 ? Jun 12 21:40:15 I own the property, surely that makes me my own landlord? Jun 12 21:40:21 But I'd rather be screwed by PayPal than each of my Banks in each of the countries in which I've resided Jun 12 21:40:24 ok, whatever Jun 12 21:40:40 At least PayPal speaks English Jun 12 21:40:47 sure Jun 12 21:40:50 and is mostly honest and has reasonable documentation Jun 12 21:40:56 even its horror stories are public! Jun 12 21:41:03 the same can not be said for my Finnish banks Jun 12 21:41:03 yeah Jun 12 21:41:31 which have been incredibly dishonest and whose dirty laundry is either private or enciphered in an indecipherable language for which no particularly good translation tools exist :) Jun 12 21:42:02 I'd not let my friggin paypal account grow to any 4 digit amount anyway Jun 12 21:44:14 the interest rate on a US based PayPal account (when established as a Money Market) was considerably better than anything I could get at a bank Jun 12 21:44:14 paypal is too big, with too few real human beings involved into the process, and not bound to any jurisdiction that would help me out when the IT goes mad Jun 12 21:44:27 and its fee structure was much much much better, as was my abilitity to use it as a liquid account. Jun 12 21:44:47 Heck, I could have gotten a credit card for it to enable me to draw its funds directly. Jun 12 21:45:41 that's all fine as long as it works. If something fails you're screwed Jun 12 21:46:00 * timeless shrugs Jun 12 21:46:08 placing all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea Jun 12 21:46:09 try to get back your 1% Jun 12 21:46:17 my eggs are spread across a number of baskets Jun 12 21:46:17 try to get an explanation about it Jun 12 21:46:39 yeah, i just set a "message" asking about it Jun 12 21:46:47 you'll get text templates forever Jun 12 21:47:15 "please read https://www.paypal.com/fi/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees" Jun 12 21:47:17 we'll see Jun 12 21:47:24 * timeless sighs Jun 12 21:47:36