**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 23 02:59:56 2011 Jun 23 03:00:09 lol Jun 23 03:00:28 all i know is n9 is looking mighty attractive to me Jun 23 03:00:44 plus having 64gb i can put all my music on there Jun 23 03:02:31 what i can't seem to find a picture of is texting with the phone in landscape orientation texting window Jun 23 03:03:41 is the type and size of screen on the N9 known? Jun 23 03:04:36 ya Jun 23 03:04:39 u can google that up Jun 23 03:09:40 xd13, you're way behind the times. Jun 23 03:09:46 http://swipe.nokia.com Jun 23 03:09:50 N950 has been announced Jun 23 03:09:56 as a limited-production developer kit Jun 23 03:10:02 N9 has also been announced. Jun 23 03:10:27 ds3, 3.9-inch OLED Jun 23 03:10:31 854x480 or so. Jun 23 03:10:35 general have u seen any landscape mode pics ? because i can't find any Jun 23 03:11:11 They don't seem to wan to show much landscape. Jun 23 03:11:23 http://wiki.meego.com/Maliit Jun 23 03:11:27 Is what's being used. Jun 23 03:11:30 So it may be something like that. Jun 23 03:11:32 ACtually Jun 23 03:11:35 * GeneralAntilles checks UX guidelines Jun 23 03:12:19 http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Text_Input.html Jun 23 03:12:22 No landscape mention there. Jun 23 03:12:49 GA: Hmmmmm wonder how well does the OLED perform outdoors Jun 23 03:13:08 the N900 screen does okay in sunlight Jun 23 03:13:38 The Nokians seem to think it does OK. Jun 23 03:13:50 We discussed it with frals earlier and he said he hasn't had any problems. Jun 23 03:13:54 (in Finland) Jun 23 03:15:38 good thing is i have a few months to get some $ together Jun 23 03:15:50 is this the dark period or the light period in fi? Jun 23 03:15:58 Light Jun 23 03:15:59 Summer Jun 23 03:16:26 has anyone compared battery life? Jun 23 03:17:35 Supposedly much improved. Jun 23 03:17:50 OMAP3630, plus bigger battery, plus OLED seems likely to help. Jun 23 03:18:00 ds3: Non-removable batter :( Jun 23 03:18:04 same or better camera? Jun 23 03:18:12 krayon: oh? :( Jun 23 03:18:13 s/batter/battery/ Jun 23 03:18:14 krayon meant: ds3: Non-removable battery :( Jun 23 03:19:23 and the radio is still GSM with the TMO 3G band ? Jun 23 03:20:54 The battery is supposed to be moderately easily replacable. Jun 23 03:21:24 ya i didn't understand y either Jun 23 03:21:33 all the new phones r 4g Jun 23 03:22:49 Much better camera. Jun 23 03:22:56 Supposedly the fastest camera out there. Jun 23 03:23:06 Under 3 seconds from activation to first shot. Jun 23 03:23:16 ds3, pentaband 3g Jun 23 03:23:23 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jun 23 03:23:33 There isn't a good reason why the n900 can't do that. Jun 23 03:23:41 (the cam anyway) Jun 23 03:23:42 Hmmmm looks tolerable Jun 23 03:23:59 but it is capacitive right? Jun 23 03:24:49 ds3: :( probably. Jun 23 03:25:09 Yes Jun 23 03:25:16 always 1 drawback in each new model! Jun 23 03:25:17 Evidently a pretty good quality one, though. Jun 23 03:25:27 ds3, one step forward, two steps back. Jun 23 03:25:43 well, I have yet to see a cap touch that I can use to sign a PDF file Jun 23 03:25:44 When they do the initial planning meetings they figure out which features they're going to change or remove to make it shittier. Jun 23 03:25:47 Hehe Jun 23 03:26:10 give me the N800 size display with sunlight readability and the same number of buttons Jun 23 03:26:31 * SpeedEvil ponders selling modded n900s with other screens. Jun 23 03:26:47 you got a source for screens that fit the N900 case? Jun 23 03:26:50 It'd be lovely to be able to buy the boards. Jun 23 03:26:53 ds3: no Jun 23 03:26:56 oh :P Jun 23 03:27:16 You almost can't do a bigger screen in the existing case. Jun 23 03:27:30 It'd need to be a custom one. Jun 23 03:27:58 even if I do a custom case, I don't think they expose the signals for a lot of LCDs Jun 23 03:28:09 btw, is the N9 going to add a compass? Jun 23 03:28:18 yes Jun 23 03:28:37 ds3: they don't - you'd need to find a compatible LCD - which is not completely impossible Jun 23 03:28:56 that might be enough reason to get it; assuming Meego isn't completely f'ed Jun 23 03:29:22 * SpeedEvil found a magnetometer which may make it possible to make a compass microSD Jun 23 03:29:25 SpeedEvil: aren't they DSI screens? Jun 23 03:29:31 ? Jun 23 03:29:49 the LCDs on there are not parallel (DPI) but serial, right? Jun 23 03:30:00 Essentially most modern LCDs are. Jun 23 03:30:15 no Jun 23 03:30:22 LVDS is not DSI Jun 23 03:31:28 DSI is sort of LVDS Jun 23 03:32:01 except DSI is direct from the OMAP whereas LVDS requires a transmitter, AFAIK Jun 23 03:32:04 there are some screens out there. Jun 23 03:32:55 LVDS is a low-level standard. There are screens - most screens nowadays - that connect over it in a standardish way - this is called LVDS - it's really not. Jun 23 03:33:19 ~moo Jun 23 03:33:19 * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass Jun 23 03:33:32 It's LVDS in the same way that it's correct to call a container of milk a gallon jug. Jun 23 03:33:43 Without specifying that it's milk in it. Jun 23 03:34:38 PCIe is LVDS too Jun 23 03:34:46 (maybe) Jun 23 03:35:09 or calling those testpads RS232 Jun 23 03:35:27 Or calling posters on TMO retards. Jun 23 03:35:29 while they are often 1.8V Jun 23 03:37:16 Bleh Jun 23 03:37:32 They still don't have a complete English translation for N900CE Jun 23 03:44:43 I guess they stil have that tana_fi_foobar abomination Jun 23 03:45:22 I.E. no proper compiled-in textstrings for LANG=C Jun 23 03:46:38 the rationale for which is really unheard: The *translators* don't manage to get their texts right otherwise Jun 23 03:47:58 umm - what has locale got to do with translators? Jun 23 03:51:03 I heard of several ways to deal with the problem: prefixes like in "[E:4154] File not found" is one, Qt-linquist has the concept of context qualifiers and even comments in source. But never I seen something as awkward as "Homescreen" -> "tana_fi_thumb_home_btn" Jun 23 03:56:23 SpeedEvil: I guess the translators don't have the software to test their translations live, but only screenshots at best. Now if there are several "file not found" msgs that maybe need different translations depending on application context ("can not read config" vs "Project file not found"), then obviously the only solution they could come up with is to have unique crappy strings like "tana_fi_thumb_home_btn" in source/program, so the Jun 23 03:56:25 screenshots have unique references to which text tupel is the one the translator needs to edit for this one Jun 23 03:58:50 as mentioned above even a dead simple "Home [9634]" would be better than that, as it doesn't kill users that have no proper locale (set) Jun 23 04:01:02 then add //%translatorhint% [9634] button, small, english text "home", fontsize foo, semantics blah Jun 23 04:01:08 to source Jun 23 04:02:03 grep '%translatorhint%'|sort>translators_auxiliary_docs.txt Jun 23 04:03:28 or simply look how it's done in qt-linguist, isn't Qt a Nokia thing anyway in the end? Jun 23 04:06:22 GeneralAntilles: though I just start to wonder what it's been you're telling us. N900CE sounds like meego-arm(proper) Jun 23 04:06:35 Hmm? Jun 23 04:07:03 which language do they use other than plain english? I can't imagine meego adopted that idiocy with tana_fi_* Jun 23 04:07:21 Doesn't claim to have anything but en_GB installed. Jun 23 04:08:24 ([2011-06-23 05:35:18] They still don't have a complete English translation for N900CE) please elaborate - and bear with me, coffee still about to take effect :-) Jun 23 04:09:30 what else do they have then, when no proper english "translation"? Jun 23 04:13:08 GeneralAntilles: was your comment just about en_GB vs en_EN (or whatever)? Jun 23 04:13:40 Just the lack of complete strings for N900 CE Jun 23 04:13:48 example? Jun 23 04:13:49 Seems like that would be something relatively easy to fix. Jun 23 04:16:25 * DocScrutinizer starts to wonder if the ""problems with CE cert"" that kontorri(?) said was responsible for N950 sales blocker actually meant "problems with Consumer Edition firmware QA and finalizing" Jun 23 04:49:16 * kirma reads about harmattan device security policy. wondering if "The device owners define the device policy based on their needs and goals" means that on unlocked, non-developer mode devices, users can really install software sources easily, with credentials for *any* resource any practical application or service could need Jun 23 04:50:01 as far as those don't put MSSF or hardware itself at risk Jun 23 04:50:38 because if that's not possible, it's that S60/MIDP application signing hell once again... Jun 23 04:51:31 if user decides to trust ACME Inc as software source, he should be allowed to do so Jun 23 04:59:50 kirma: seems harmattan security framework has purged DRM part, so possibly the hell is some steps ahead yet Jun 23 05:00:22 nevertheless in visinity Jun 23 05:00:35 ~spell visinity Jun 23 05:00:36 possible spellings for visinity: vicinity disunity virginity vanity visit Vinita sanity vicinity's vising Vicente visiting Jun 23 05:03:10 DRM doesn't really bother me. content by *other* software vendors may be encrypted or limited in access in a way that my software can't access it. I'm just considered of the possibility that I couldn't set up my own software shop that could for instance implement some of the plugins without expensive application certifications... Jun 23 05:04:06 just if user decides to trust my software source, I could do basically everything else except compromise MSSF itself, or, for instance, blow up the battery Jun 23 05:04:45 also wondering what would be the best channel to ask this kind of questions regarding meego/harmattan Jun 23 05:12:01 kirma: the problem with DRM is you must make sure no ripper or other rogue sw is running in parallel to your e.g. mediaplayer Jun 23 05:12:26 so DRM is exactly what hits you as a small shopee selling your own sw Jun 23 05:14:10 either you get Nokia to sign your sw after QA and security evaluation, or it mustn't run in parallel to DRM protected sw on same system, concurrently Jun 23 05:15:08 there's no option for user to override this principle, as it's exactly the user that is considered rogue and has to get gontrolled by industry Jun 23 05:15:20 s/contr/contr/ Jun 23 05:15:28 s/gontr/contr/ Jun 23 05:15:28 DocScrutinizer meant: there's no option for user to override this principle, as it's exactly the user that is considered rogue and has to get controlled by industry Jun 23 05:16:57 but, as mentioned above (thanks to Corsac for pointing me at the relevant email), it seems harmattan hasn't implemented DRM (yet?) Jun 23 05:19:14 so for the rest of aegis benefits (should I say "benefits"?) you might actually be allowed to have full user control over all such things like integrity check, resource allocation and granting, crypted data storage, etc pp Jun 23 05:20:21 and yes, this might include sw-tokes for licence management of apps as well Jun 23 05:20:22 well, I'm not interested in rippers. I might be interested on call recorders, or implementing various plugins for which API is provided, or, of course, applications that access for instance address book and location data Jun 23 05:20:51 kirma: it's irrelevant in what you're interested Jun 23 05:21:23 as the devels of acme-mediaplayer don't know for sure if your app is rogue or not Jun 23 05:22:17 I'm not exactly certain if we are talking of the same thing Jun 23 05:22:45 that's what QA and cert at Nokia/$random-appstore is meant for - they guarantee that all signed apps are behaving, in sense of DRM Jun 23 05:23:20 kirma: believe me, we are talking about same thing Jun 23 05:24:04 but what I'd want to see is concrete description of harmattan security policy in practice - what kind of software sources developers can create without certification by someone related to nokia, and what credentials such sources may grant (or, put the other way, which they *can't* grant) Jun 23 05:25:36 as mentioend above, since the critical DRM part got dropped, it seems user has full control over that, so basically there should be no limit there about what can or can not be granted Jun 23 05:25:41 or defined Jun 23 05:26:38 Hm... I always like to see DRM dropped, but in what? Jun 23 05:26:55 robbiethe1st: aegis, harmattan Jun 23 05:27:04 Oh, good Jun 23 05:27:04 OTOH, it's only good in my opinion for device security that files can be kept visible only to their owning applications and encrypted with proper chain of trust if wanted so Jun 23 05:27:29 kirma: sure Jun 23 05:27:51 and that access to various resources can be strongly enforced... as long as developers accessing non-critical features don't require going through certification hell Jun 23 05:28:00 but that can be done differently anyway Jun 23 05:28:35 thee are some concerns about this as well, regarding privacy, remote control over your property (data getting invalidated via online cert, see windows genuine) etc Jun 23 05:29:06 but those concerns are minor, compared to big toad DRM Jun 23 05:29:43 I got the idea that MSSF principles were based on reasonably consumer-friendly basis originally, but are the actual shipping devices also hacker-developer-deployment friendly Jun 23 05:29:46 Isn't that sort of what the whole group/user model with Linux is supposed to do? Jun 23 05:30:14 because one thing that surely killed deployment of many MIDP and S60v3 applications were the capability limitations and the bureaucratic processes involved Jun 23 05:30:22 Root can access everything; setup a user with specific access to certain files; any other user without permission can't access files that aren't chmodded the right way... Jun 23 05:30:49 kirma: regarding cet hell for critical resources: I think each user is devel and each devel is user. Means there can't get any sane scheme installed that would e.g. forbid access to voltage regulators for apps without cert Jun 23 05:31:15 well, maybe there is, first instance. Though users can circumvent it if they like Jun 23 05:32:08 robbiethe1st: basically yes Jun 23 05:32:16 well, developers can put their *own* devices to developer mode... but, it should be possible to deploy applications that don't try excess things such as blow up the battery also on normal-mode devices (I hope!), without cert hell Jun 23 05:32:23 aegis is basically useless without DRM Jun 23 05:32:46 also, deploying such applications without IMEI bindings... Jun 23 05:32:57 as all the other parts could have been implemented using existing methods Jun 23 05:34:00 Aegis is useful to tell people who absolutely want it that it is there Jun 23 05:34:08 Well, kirma, that's what repos are for, like on the N900. Jun 23 05:34:15 Does not even have to do anything useful, just be there Jun 23 05:34:31 You have extras for tested apps; and extras-testing / devel for potentially dangerous stuff Jun 23 05:34:46 kirma: I don't think there's such thing like "developer mode" Jun 23 05:35:01 except for the DRM related "open" mode Jun 23 05:35:29 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/images/thumb/2/21/SecurityBoot.PNG/500px-SecurityBoot.PNG Jun 23 05:36:07 at http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/index.php?title=Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Harmattan_platform_and_Platform_SDK_overview/Security_domain_overview Jun 23 05:38:10 ugh sim lock Jun 23 05:38:13 >>Additionally, some Harmattan device distribution channels may require installation or blocking of certain applications or services without a possibility for users or applications to change these settings. ...<< that's DRM basically Jun 23 05:38:48 pabs3: that part is mere BS as SIMlock is handled inside modem, and user has no access to this domain whatsoever Jun 23 05:39:37 well, nicely enough, our friend elop has now explicitly stated that n9 will be the last and only meego phone. great marketing, but his intents are pretty clear. Jun 23 05:39:52 kirma: got link? Jun 23 05:39:54 SUCKER Jun 23 05:40:53 kirma, where? Jun 23 05:40:57 hmm stskeeps left Jun 23 05:41:33 >>Services, such as mobile payments and copyright protection, require a strong security support from the operating system. The security of these services is essential to their usage, which is why such enablers should be provided by MSSF<< also DRM Jun 23 05:42:17 paper version of helsingin sanomat, interview of elop, supposedly Jun 23 05:42:20 wth is MSSF??? Jun 23 05:42:23 What is Elop thinking? Jun 23 05:42:31 so probably that mail Corsac pointed at, that stated harmattan is dropping DRM was only another fog bomb to brainwash devels Jun 23 05:42:32 How the hell can you end this with one device. Jun 23 05:42:47 GAN900, what he always has been... how to ruin Nokia so that Microcrud can absorb it as a mobile division Jun 23 05:42:49 mobile simple security framework Jun 23 05:42:57 ruskie: ^^^ Jun 23 05:42:58 "Here's this awesome thing that even Engadget loves. But let's burn it down." Jun 23 05:43:16 the true name of aegis Jun 23 05:43:24 OK, so what is the BOARD thinking. . . . Jun 23 05:43:25 well, elop wants to make certain that sales are miserable so that he can stagnate "long term" development of meego into oblivion, making nokia dependent on microsoft Jun 23 05:43:30 I'm more impressed that quite a few people @work are interested in a N9 Jun 23 05:44:10 So, in summary, "Long term disruptions." is bs Jun 23 05:44:19 then again, definition of a "phone" is slippery for nokia, and thus they can use weasel word excuses later if elop-sabotage fails Jun 23 05:44:21 How much bs can one company spew out? Jun 23 05:44:33 GAN900, think Microsoft Jun 23 05:44:37 I don't know the exact wording on the paper now Jun 23 05:45:12 I think infinite amount comes close to it Jun 23 05:45:34 kirma: nice one Jun 23 05:45:34 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/23/uspto_rejects_oracle_android_claims/ Jun 23 05:46:42 title is "Elop rules out return of Meego" Jun 23 05:47:02 kirma: link! Jun 23 05:47:06 the guy really is a trojan of microsoft Jun 23 05:47:15 DocScrutinizer, [07:40:03] paper version of helsingin sanomat, interview of elop, supposedly Jun 23 05:47:23 it's in finnish, and requires subscription Jun 23 05:47:28 can Meego run Maemo binaries? Jun 23 05:47:57 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/23/australia_laws_fight_cybercrime/ Jun 23 05:48:00 http://www.hs.fi/haku/?kaikkiSanat=elop+sulkee+pois+meegon+paluun Jun 23 05:48:32 ruskie: how's that link related? Jun 23 05:48:49 it isn't Jun 23 05:48:59 but it is interesting none-the-less Jun 23 05:49:34 without a warrant, wtf Jun 23 05:49:36 kirma, is this a link to the article (-teaser)? Jun 23 05:50:07 it's a link to article search, and from there you can, at least theoretically purchase the full interview article Jun 23 05:50:38 copy paste to a pastebin? Jun 23 05:50:42 Well, if the stock goes up more with release, I'm not sure how the board can ignore it. Jun 23 05:50:59 atleast the relevant parts Jun 23 05:51:33 A lot of people in the US have already had experience with WinMob Jun 23 05:51:42 they're not interested in more of it. Jun 23 05:52:06 well, Elop obviously trusts that his disrespect for the platform makes operators and consumers avoid N9, and details of sales come at least one quarter late, just nicely for WP7 to take over Jun 23 05:52:44 fate of nokia is not important to elop, it's just better that nokia is weak than self-supporting Jun 23 05:53:51 it's incredible how anyone can let a guy with such self-sabotaging comments stay as CEO of a company Jun 23 05:54:14 a comment like that costs millions, if not tens of millions, and apparently it's completely intentional... Jun 23 05:54:40 GAN900: indeed, also shareholders will go mad about it. But seems Elop is not tangented by any of that Jun 23 05:55:34 incredible attitude considering very positive feedback from the media, for once, for a nokia product Jun 23 05:55:52 yup Jun 23 05:55:59 indeed Jun 23 05:56:26 seems Nokia completely bent over and surrendered Jun 23 05:57:16 we should send vaseline to the board Jun 23 05:57:23 kirma: :( Jun 23 05:57:40 should see the real article, though. Jun 23 05:58:26 it seems like elop is intentionally attacking back on positive feedback Jun 23 05:59:14 well i don't think many people in this channel appreciate his ideas Jun 23 05:59:30 it's so fsckng obvious it really hurts your eyes watching this (!self-)destruction Jun 23 06:00:03 how about everyone in this channel leave to form a new linux phone company Jun 23 06:00:38 monoid: will still open a gap of several million on capital Jun 23 06:00:45 you will immediately be beset by software patent and hardware patent lawsuits Jun 23 06:00:56 that as well Jun 23 06:00:57 they do not want new up-and-comers entering the market Jun 23 06:01:21 chip manufs simply ignore you... Jun 23 06:01:31 and idiots will spam forums bitching about you lacking an ecosystem Jun 23 06:01:32 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fi&u=http://www.aamulehti.fi/cs/Satellite/Talous/1194684338547/artikkeli/elop%2Bhs%2Blle%2Bn9%2Bjaa%2Bainoaksi%2Bmeego-puhelimeksi%2Bmyyntimenestyksesta%2Briippumatta.html&ei=v9UCTqC6OYjvsga85tn1Cg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.aamulehti.fi/cs/Satellite/Talous/1194684338547/artikkeli/elop%252Bhs%252Blle%252Bn9%252Bjaa%252Bainoaksi%252Bmeego-puhelimeksi%252Bm Jun 23 06:01:39 ah, nice link! Jun 23 06:02:09 http://tinyurl.com/62fwkmw Jun 23 06:02:30 * ruskie is grateful for kirma not posting a tinyurl first ;) Jun 23 06:02:32 not the original source, but at least outlines the content Jun 23 06:02:52 fsckng google is slow like hell for me, since last day Jun 23 06:03:24 - I've talked a lot about how to increase people's sense of responsibility, empathy, listening to customers and each other and avoid being arrogant, Elop said. <-- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Jun 23 06:03:39 i usually have to censor my comments about that man Jun 23 06:03:49 still loading Jun 23 06:03:55 basically the headline says "Elop to Helsingin Sanomat: N9 to remain as the only Meego phone regardless of sales numbers" Jun 23 06:04:12 ruskie, it's funny. Jun 23 06:04:15 He's right. Jun 23 06:04:30 Arrogance is a big part of Nokia's problem Jun 23 06:04:38 and he kinda personifies it Jun 23 06:04:45 arrogance of elop Jun 23 06:04:45 But he's also a damn hypocrite Jun 23 06:04:48 he exploits that Jun 23 06:05:01 I get it now Jun 23 06:05:11 well there were problems before elop, like making maemo a 5-year chinese plan Jun 23 06:05:13 Elop did not arrive at Nokia to find a "burning platform" Jun 23 06:05:25 he came and found a messy platform, and promptly set it on fire Jun 23 06:05:26 "only Meego phone even if it would be sales success" Jun 23 06:05:32 monoid, right, the arrogance. Jun 23 06:05:32 WTF??!?! still loading Jun 23 06:05:33 then sat outside, like arsonists do Jun 23 06:05:39 "omg it's on fire" Jun 23 06:05:44 what a moron with company interests can really make such statements Jun 23 06:05:51 wmarone_, *facepalm+ Jun 23 06:06:17 lol wmarone_ Jun 23 06:06:56 wmarone_: haha :D Jun 23 06:07:15 it's depressing true Jun 23 06:07:34 wow 96% loaded Jun 23 06:08:10 DocScrutinizer: it loaded very fast for me Jun 23 06:08:18 Is it just me, or is the internet just getting slower? Jun 23 06:08:25 Nothing loads quickly anymore Jun 23 06:08:42 disable javascript? Jun 23 06:08:46 There was a short time just after broadband became affordable when things were snappy. Jun 23 06:08:52 Now it's all just slow Jun 23 06:09:01 monoid, that's part of it, yeah. Jun 23 06:09:03 GAN900: I think it's Florida. The whole state is being throttled. Jun 23 06:09:14 wmarone_, could be. Jun 23 06:09:30 It was slow in CA. Jun 23 06:09:46 'noscript' is a wonderful ffox plugin Jun 23 06:09:49 that's because you had 1000 people using it Jun 23 06:10:06 wmarone_, at my friend's apartment in the city Jun 23 06:10:15 oh, hm Jun 23 06:10:19 and at my parent's house south. Jun 23 06:10:19 i nfs mounted simtel in 1991 on the laboratory NeXT :) Jun 23 06:10:43 hmm 1992 mabe Jun 23 06:10:44 I guess my local comcast franchisee is strangely competent then Jun 23 06:10:45 what a fscking mole Jun 23 06:10:49 I actually get the speed I pay for Jun 23 06:10:56 I do too, generally Jun 23 06:11:15 But most things just seem slow. Jun 23 06:11:37 * ruskie is amused at how quickly the conversation goes from Elop bashing to internet slowness Jun 23 06:11:56 ruskie, late night unfocussednessssss Jun 23 06:12:09 0810 here Jun 23 06:12:34 Besides, there's only so much rage I feel like working up over things anymore. Jun 23 06:13:14 ruskie: indeed, time to get breakfast, as my stomach can't take the elopocalypse any longer, without a basement Jun 23 06:13:50 hehe Jun 23 06:13:57 I really wonder what protection class Elop's car is Jun 23 06:14:25 i want to see the cream pie to the face moment bill gates got Jun 23 06:14:30 probably he made Nokia get him a car that's nuke-safe Jun 23 06:14:32 Yes. Jun 23 06:14:44 Mr. No-Arms deserves it and more. Jun 23 06:15:06 good morning Jun 23 06:15:09 morning Jun 23 06:15:12 morn Termana Jun 23 06:16:41 all this bad news makes me appreciate the N900 achievement more Jun 23 06:16:44 I honestly suggest to unify maemo with pure meego and turn it into an anti vendor port project Jun 23 06:17:02 what this means? Jun 23 06:17:30 get OS on arbitrary hw platforms, with or without support from vendors Jun 23 06:17:51 isn't meego a vendor project? Jun 23 06:17:55 intel etc? Jun 23 06:17:57 basically emancipate from Nokia Jun 23 06:18:09 and Intel ;-P Jun 23 06:18:58 I mean maemo community is still strong, we can drive such a project, even when Elop says meego is dead Jun 23 06:20:12 i like this Jun 23 06:20:29 in the end meego is not a property of Elop, and he can't do more than deny support for porting maemo/meego to future Nokia products. He can't stop it though Jun 23 06:21:17 umm. he could make drm'd WP7 phones Jun 23 06:21:27 Does that matter though? So long as MS gets their WP7 fee for each phone sold, do they really care what OS is actually run? Jun 23 06:21:37 and I bet a good, even the better part of Nokians is with us, either subversive in their working time, or during leisure time Jun 23 06:26:23 plus it's probably the only way to significantly spoil Elop's evil plot, when this anti vendor project gets some momentum, as it will have impact on MS plans about the ecosystem Jun 23 06:27:06 how open is meego? is it tightly controlled by vendors? Jun 23 06:27:18 as soon as MS notices it and considers it as a potential threat in the future, they will do as always: embrace Jun 23 06:27:52 so I can already see Balmer giving Elop a call Jun 23 06:28:24 I don't think we have too much to worry about there... No way is MS going to control anything, what with Android taking over the market. Unless MS does something amazing - Like providing a full backawards-compatible desktop environment on x86 phones -- I doubt that will change Jun 23 06:28:44 * pabs3 would consider Debian instead of MeeGo Jun 23 06:28:48 * pabs3 is biased though Jun 23 06:29:55 pabs3: we got debian "running" on N900 since quite some time afaik. The point is Nokia did a pretty good job in adapting linux to embedded, their particular embedded Jun 23 06:30:17 not even meego-arm can catch up with this yet Jun 23 06:30:50 that's why I sid "unify maemo-harmattan and meego proper" Jun 23 06:30:54 said* Jun 23 06:32:54 mainly it's just abold public statement council had to publish, about "we don't listen to Elop, we definitely will continue Meego(/maemo-harmattan)" Jun 23 06:33:05 first instance Jun 23 06:33:18 * pabs3 would like to see that at the very least Jun 23 06:33:59 even such statement will kinda counteract Elop's plans Jun 23 06:34:30 and may rise sales of N9 quite a bit Jun 23 06:34:54 which will spoil Elp's/Balmer's plans even further Jun 23 06:37:05 then get some anonymous Nokia employees state they like the idea of keeping meego alive and will help any way they can Jun 23 06:37:34 maybe even not so anonymous Jun 23 06:38:01 heck, this Elop isn't Godfather himself Jun 23 06:38:13 it feels so dilbert Jun 23 06:38:17 get the higher-ups who already left involved in the statement Jun 23 06:40:56 Discussing elop are we. Jun 23 06:41:14 I get the feeling that guy really hates linux... Jun 23 06:41:54 that guy is MS. Period Jun 23 06:42:14 yep Jun 23 06:50:00 LOL >>Welcome to Nokia Developer Launchpad program! Your membership is now active...<< Applied accidently with reasoning "blablabla" on why I want to join, literally Jun 23 06:52:49 DocScrutinizer: haha! Jun 23 06:53:14 DocScrutinizer: as if they have time to actually read applications to the program :p Jun 23 06:53:44 seems they have, as it took ~16h for acceptance Jun 23 06:55:21 DocScrutinizer, so does that mean you're getting a N950? Jun 23 06:57:39 maybe Jun 23 06:57:57 konttori thought I should Jun 23 06:58:52 konttori probably got enough pull on this to make it happen ;) Jun 23 07:01:04 I'd think so, if I was capable to correctly apply Jun 23 07:01:27 and he doesn't forget about it during those stormy days Jun 23 07:02:46 * kirma wonders if the news he passed are exactly from elop's mouth. it would not be the first time news outlets mix up factoids and persons commenting things... still haven't seen the paper version Jun 23 07:04:09 DocScrutinizer: the thing is, they seem to really want app developer (to bootstrap, I guess) and I'm not sure they're really interested in “platform” people Jun 23 07:04:18 he might even deny and step back, depending on immediate impact this is causing. I doubt though he'll do anything like that Jun 23 07:04:33 to arrogant Jun 23 07:05:01 * ruskie would like a n950 as well but not a dev of any reasonable semblance.. mostly just a hacker Jun 23 07:05:11 Corsac: Konttori thought it might be valuable to have some "hackers" as well Jun 23 07:05:18 good news Jun 23 07:05:41 though 250 n950 is really little, they'll have a hard time selecting people Jun 23 07:06:00 sure, but there are more on the commercial side Jun 23 07:06:32 * pabs3 heard orders of magnitude more Jun 23 07:06:46 ho? Jun 23 07:06:48 I'd guess so, yes Jun 23 07:07:00 (hey pabs3, you've been upgraded?) Jun 23 07:07:13 Corsac: usual PV run at Nokia is probably some thousand Jun 23 07:07:30 not sure exactly where I got that 250 number though Jun 23 07:07:51 it's a correct number for meego community Jun 23 07:07:57 Corsac: I read on tmo that it was ~ 92000 total Jun 23 07:08:14 but who knows how accurate that is :) Jun 23 07:08:15 Nokia developer has probably 10 times that number Jun 23 07:08:29 pabs3: what? Jun 23 07:08:35 WHAT? Jun 23 07:08:45 92k units N950??? Jun 23 07:09:14 well, then the sales boxing really makes sense ;-D Jun 23 07:10:02 i want one! Jun 23 07:11:06 DocScrutinizer: last post on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72784&page=2 Jun 23 07:11:15 thanks Jun 23 07:11:30 what i don't understand is why nokia is effectively wasting all the time spent in R&D for the n950 Jun 23 07:11:53 hmm what's this about LG making a Meego device??? Jun 23 07:12:00 if they've got that many even I will apply even though I will most likely not have the time Jun 23 07:12:04 dunno where this tweet is, that seems to be the start of this 92k thing: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1033439&postcount=6354 Jun 23 07:12:31 why does that claim selling? Jun 23 07:12:55 meh, May 5th, Eldar Jun 23 07:13:06 "planning" even Jun 23 07:13:12 are we supposed to get a confirmation mail when registering to the developer program? Jun 23 07:13:13 kerio: I like to believe the idea is to have a platform to fall back to just in case WP7 ends up being a total failure Jun 23 07:13:32 well no shit it'll fail Jun 23 07:13:37 nobody likes wp7 apparently Jun 23 07:13:44 kerio: I don't think they planned or are planning now to do so (waste) Jun 23 07:14:13 ruskie: (LG) rumour has that since quite some time Jun 23 07:14:16 devs don't like having to use html5, windows mobile users don't like the handholding, linux nerds don't like it because it's windows Jun 23 07:14:30 it's a big company, with different factions inside, I assume Jun 23 07:15:07 Corsac: yes Jun 23 07:15:18 for devels.nokia.com Jun 23 07:15:30 not so for meego.com aiui Jun 23 07:15:45 ok Jun 23 07:15:52 (I used meego.com) Jun 23 07:16:10 for dev.nokia.com that's launchpad accept nitification though Jun 23 07:16:14 full helsingin sanomat elop interview (in finnish): http://pastebin.com/Td9XJyKU Jun 23 07:16:26 ok, the 250 number comes from https://meego.com/community/device-program/devices/nokia-n9-devkit Jun 23 07:16:36 yup Jun 23 07:16:38 I guess I'll pass on that Jun 23 07:16:45 my finnish isn't up to date Jun 23 07:17:17 Choom, run it through a translator Jun 23 07:17:48 unless it's journalist speculation, it'd appear that elop states that qt is not coming to wp7, and that "according to elop, there is no return to meego, even if n9 would be a sales success" Jun 23 07:18:21 well, we already know long term consistency isn't exactly a nokia specialty Jun 23 07:18:32 (though I'm not sure we can count on that :) Jun 23 07:18:50 kirma, QT is nothing new Jun 23 07:18:51 and Intel seems really bored about Harmattan beeing called MeeGo after Nokia dropped them for MS Jun 23 07:19:42 I really wonder if these should be interpreted as official, stock exchange level statements or if elop uses his freedom to make informal statements to erode credibility of non-windows platforms Jun 23 07:20:05 considering the win platform has none.. Jun 23 07:20:10 that's a bit hard to do Jun 23 07:20:30 well, I think the company hasn't explicitly stated anything about inclusion or non-inclusion of qt on wp7 phones Jun 23 07:20:37 they have Jun 23 07:20:59 iirc Jun 23 07:21:22 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/ Jun 23 07:26:15 from what I'm reading, elop claims that meego will not return, but in the other hand he doesn't consider the N9's OS to be meego, he regards that as an implementation of "cutie" Jun 23 07:28:59 why can't he go do something less harmful, like satanic ritual murder of children Jun 23 07:33:13 :/ /me agrees with monoid Jun 23 07:36:58 monoid: that should go to LWN as a quote of the week :) Jun 23 07:38:36 -sigh- Jun 23 07:41:55 monoid, LOL Jun 23 07:42:43 monoid, heh I'm listening to a song called ritual right now. They don't state if it's children they murder tho. But satanic it definately is :D No sign of Elop Jun 23 07:43:26 s/definately/definitely/ Jun 23 07:43:27 mece meant: monoid, heh I'm listening to a song called ritual right now. They don't state if it's children they murder tho. But satanic it definitely is :D No sign of Elop Jun 23 07:48:17 sorry that was uncouth Jun 23 07:48:39 i'd be more upset if i were a finn Jun 23 07:57:02 Morning Jun 23 07:57:49 well Jun 23 07:58:15 I doubt investors would watch elop driving nokia to the ground idly Jun 23 07:58:30 he can be held accountable for damaging management Jun 23 08:00:21 Choom: investor and board push it to the top of the company, and they probably didn't care of company future, they just want short term profit. Jun 23 08:01:57 tbh, while I want to see succesful followups to the n9 as much as anyone else, a lot of people crying for it really give the wp7 strategy more stick than it deserves Jun 23 08:03:09 nid0, hehe Jun 23 08:04:18 i think the both system can't survive ... i just hope that the winphone ecosystem will never appear :) Jun 23 08:05:23 they need somehting to power the lower end of the spectrum Jun 23 08:05:27 morning khertan Jun 23 08:06:02 cloudyLights: Morning Jun 23 08:07:08 wp7 and harmattan are both high end systems, I don't think they can compete with symbian on budget budget phones Jun 23 08:07:17 I need to fix the errors you found Jun 23 08:07:28 that whole def cli() is not in use Jun 23 08:07:35 yep but i think wp7 and harmattan can't survive in the same company Jun 23 08:08:23 I dont understand, did most developers here use hartman now? Jun 23 08:08:33 cloudyLights: nope :) Jun 23 08:09:03 I mean , was all of the noise yesterday here about that new image Nokia released? Jun 23 08:09:04 cloudyLights: but using python/pyside i'm targetting Fremantle and Harmattan at the same time :) Jun 23 08:09:13 was it a hartman image? Jun 23 08:09:18 new image ? Jun 23 08:09:32 n950 firmware I think Jun 23 08:09:49 as there was a lot of trrafic I didnt keep up Jun 23 08:09:51 ah ... yep i take a look at it too :) Jun 23 08:09:59 ext4 and such Jun 23 08:10:08 but i didn't have the device to try it Jun 23 08:10:09 cloudyLights, the noise in here is about the N9 and the lack of N950 for sale and yeah the firmware for the N950 Jun 23 08:10:34 summing it quite good Jun 23 08:10:38 at the same time, i ve take a look at the repository ... there is a icon for NeedForSpeed shift in the theme :) Jun 23 08:10:58 and a few other game Jun 23 08:11:13 so it ll probably be sold with one or two commercial game Jun 23 08:11:14 :) Jun 23 08:11:20 (or demo) Jun 23 08:11:56 it is also possible that nokia is testing the marketplaces Jun 23 08:12:13 half of apple's profit comes from the iphone Jun 23 08:12:56 and I'm inclined to believe that the app store contributes with a huge slice to that profit Jun 23 08:19:43 I say it too often: the "number if apps" shouldnt be the main factor Jun 23 08:19:57 the quality of the apps - should Jun 23 08:20:49 If I need to choose between a device that does all I NEED and one that can do lots of thing I dont know , I would take the first option Jun 23 08:21:48 also, I think that maemo/meego should give better performance compared to android Jun 23 08:22:08 say agumneted reality applications Jun 23 08:22:09 hmm fun... my cellco is offering an VoIP option so that I can use the same mobile number using VoIP stuff... and he wants me to pay 2eur for such a privelege... Jun 23 08:22:26 sweet Jun 23 08:23:06 and of course they charge me for calls normally Jun 23 08:24:21 cloudyLights: yep and every user have different use case. Jun 23 08:24:39 * khertan need a keyboard, an source code editor, python and qt Jun 23 08:24:40 :) Jun 23 08:24:48 anyone know if the OpenGL ES requirement in Qt 5 is final? or did they recant? Jun 23 08:25:05 I mean , my co worker has an iphone4 and I think I can now do more with my N900 then he can Jun 23 08:25:16 khertan: I'm quite excited about the N9, actually Jun 23 08:25:32 it seems to have been designed with my requirements in mind Jun 23 08:26:09 other than a lack of keyboard, the n9 is overall very ace imo Jun 23 08:26:12 the iphone has annoying restrictions Jun 23 08:27:49 iphone users live comfortably with their on-screen keyboards Jun 23 08:28:15 iPhone users live comfortably in their iClouds. :) Jun 23 08:28:28 I could make up iStuff forever.. :) Jun 23 08:28:59 with enough time i could make my own slider case + keyboard for n9 Jun 23 08:29:09 well, easier to do a hinge Jun 23 08:29:16 Choom: some iphone user ... i ve try to use it ... clearly not for me Jun 23 08:29:34 even after 2 weeks ... the onscreen keyboard was a real pain to use Jun 23 08:30:29 monoid: http://t.co/Fz6TT9z + http://t.co/KS7BPHD for a keyboard mod :) Jun 23 08:31:08 the n9 is a nice device ... it just doesn't for all users Jun 23 08:31:36 khertan, seriously, I am going to tape your mouth with that duct tape if you link to it again ;) :p Jun 23 08:31:44 s/for/have all needed thing for all user Jun 23 08:31:50 Termana: haha Jun 23 08:32:00 Well.. you can get cheap stuff from chine for iPad and iPhone(bt kb) so, why not for N9.. ;) Jun 23 08:32:40 PolarFox: because it s not well integrated so not useable while standing up in metro or tube ... and drain battery (bluetooth) Jun 23 08:33:39 true :( I wouldn't use one of those while driving either.. :) Jun 23 08:34:16 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k very sexy n950 video showing keyboard in use Jun 23 08:35:08 PolarFox: using while driving ? bou !!! Jun 23 08:35:13 dangerous Jun 23 08:35:18 you can tell that the extra work to polish UI/apps for landscape as well as portrait (n9's focus) was too much, so they decided for portrait this time, vs. landscape focus when they did N900 Jun 23 08:35:43 khertan: With N8 it's dangerous.. Wasn't that much when using qwerty of N900... Jun 23 08:37:09 if you didn't look the road or distracting doing something else, reaction time rise up ... it s really dangerous ... Jun 23 08:37:17 for you ... but also for other Jun 23 08:37:46 hmm, so very shiny, matte screen might be better Jun 23 08:37:53 anyone seen a phone with one? Jun 23 08:37:54 flailingmonkey, quite nice :) I don't think it's as pretty as n9, but damn, WANT! Jun 23 08:38:20 It's a bad habit. I'm usually able to wait until at least I am stopped, not while in motion, before reading, let alone writing on my cell Jun 23 08:38:54 PolarFox: two week's ago i stop at 10cm of a herd of boar crossing the road ... if i lost less than half of a second to react ... my car will be dead Jun 23 08:39:52 mece: you haven't seen it before ? only nfc missing and it ll be the perfect meego device.... but not sold Jun 23 08:39:53 but on the bright side, you woulda had plenty of pork to eat Jun 23 08:40:10 nid0: not really ... how i carry them :) Jun 23 08:41:02 nid0: and it s not big pork, it was true boar from Ardennes Jun 23 08:41:14 not really same impact on the car Jun 23 08:43:35 nid0: 80kg Jun 23 08:44:25 night Jun 23 08:47:34 I'm always surprised at how useless these android phones are Jun 23 08:47:44 I am disappoint. Jun 23 08:48:12 The only great things are the superb google sync and maps/places/navigation Jun 23 08:48:26 Shapeshifter: try to found a text editor with source code highlighting in the iPhone app store ... :) Jun 23 08:48:36 iphone are useless Jun 23 08:48:36 :) Jun 23 08:48:42 (at least for me) Jun 23 08:49:34 certainly. but the android market is littered with rubbish. And I just looked up some 'top 20 must have apps' for android and it comes up with lame stuff like facebook and twitter. and some photoshop Jun 23 08:49:55 Now I'm trying to find a decent ssh client but they're either terrible or don't work Jun 23 08:51:00 I think connectbot is ok Jun 23 08:58:08 hi Shapeshifter :-) Jun 23 08:59:18 DocScrutinizer, hi Jun 23 08:59:18 Shapeshifter: any clue why alarmed can't get killed by ^C when started from x-term without -C ? Jun 23 09:00:03 DocScrutinizer: mh, I need to check, maybe I'm not catching the signal. Jun 23 09:00:14 :-) Jun 23 09:00:28 khertan, haven't seen it in such detail before :) Jun 23 09:01:48 Shapeshifter: I typoed yesterday (missed the -C out) and had to head over to other room to close the GUI ;-) Jun 23 09:03:16 (didn't feel like messing any databases via kill -9 ) Jun 23 09:04:36 great, devel.nokia.com launchpad DDP has exactly ZERO devices I could get there, incl N9-devpack Jun 23 09:05:46 mece: :) Jun 23 09:06:09 mece: you can imagine that .... i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! i want one ! Jun 23 09:06:27 while i ll not bought an n9 :) Jun 23 09:07:02 keyboard + 1Gb of Ram + python apps accepted in ovi ... perfect python mobile device for me :) Jun 23 09:07:10 and a 4" screen Jun 23 09:07:18 what can i ask more :) Jun 23 09:07:20 khertan, it is just crazy how epic those specs are.. Jun 23 09:07:23 perfect! Jun 23 09:10:31 khertan: Swings-and-roundabouts on the Boar thing. You'd have lots of tasty, tasty pork though. Jun 23 09:13:55 I already made that suggestion :p Jun 23 09:17:53 That was a test of the emergency SpeedEvil system. Jun 23 09:18:05 If that had been a real SpeedEvil, I would have been awake. Jun 23 09:18:44 The n9 screen is about the same sie as the n900 isn't it khertan? Jun 23 09:19:27 DocScrutinizer, why is that? Jun 23 09:20:19 that's what I try to find out right now, dunno if you can reach that forum: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?225798-N950-avaialbility&p=848505#post848505 Jun 23 09:21:31 DocScrutinizer, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3597 Jun 23 09:23:59 * DocScrutinizer CURSES his DSL, the internets, all webservers and IT in general. Another time page takes minutes to load Jun 23 09:25:18 hey, my webservers are working fine, dont blame them :( Jun 23 09:25:54 minutes? AGES! Jun 23 09:26:24 while a parallel opened page from bmo is almost instantly Jun 23 09:27:43 so same browser, just tabs, that somewhat precludes any problesm with my hw, huh? Jun 23 09:28:22 BANG, there it is Jun 23 09:28:35 at least first 30% Jun 23 09:28:37 ;-P Jun 23 09:34:26 DocScrutinizer: mh yeah the -C option thing is ugly. Jun 23 09:37:14 Shapeshifter: not too bad, but I felt like asking about it Jun 23 09:38:03 SpeedEvil: about the same n9 is amoled 3.9", n950 is tft 4" Jun 23 09:38:30 sure it's tft? Jun 23 09:38:43 yes Jun 23 09:38:56 CSTN FTW. Jun 23 09:39:25 MohammadAG: this is was the note of the firmware flash image say Jun 23 09:39:36 s/was/what Jun 23 09:40:10 MohammadAG, http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes.html Jun 23 09:42:24 morning Jun 23 09:42:54 hey docScrutinizer at least you have internet ;) Jun 23 09:43:15 yo, and moo lardman Jun 23 09:43:17 * lardman thinks that may sound odd as he's obviously using the internet now Jun 23 09:43:22 hi Doc Jun 23 09:43:50 ty khertan / Venemo Jun 23 09:51:40 N9: Standby time: Up to 450 hours (WCDMA), up to 380 hours (GSM) ----> how is this possible? I would have thought that GSM takes less energy than WCDMA Jun 23 09:51:56 mo MohammadAG Jun 23 09:53:10 Venemo: depends on particular build of modem. Basically standby means "RX only" and that might actually be better on WCDMA than on GSM Jun 23 09:54:30 RX with occasional waking up to check for scheduled signal from toer, and more occasional transmit to tower to tell it you're still awake Jun 23 09:54:45 for TX WCDMA is usually more power consuming than GSM, mainly to the active time after transmitting a single byte of data Jun 23 09:54:46 mhm Jun 23 09:55:34 moo DocScrutinizer Jun 23 10:02:17 I gotta go now Jun 23 10:02:19 bb Jun 23 10:02:35 hi Jun 23 10:03:03 time to start preparing for midsummers. Bye! Jun 23 10:03:40 can some know ,how use command show User_List on X-Chat for N900 Jun 23 10:05:53 or user shortkey to show User_List Jun 23 10:06:58 ctrl +vol seems to work here Jun 23 10:07:08 i.e. ctrl+F7 Jun 23 10:08:32 uh, is this right that the builtin maemo sip protocol handling doesn't work with most sip servers? Jun 23 10:08:39 because of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5342 Jun 23 10:08:41 04Bug 5342: IM and VoIP accounts: Cannot sign in to ekiga.net SIP. Jun 23 10:09:02 and does someone know a provider that works with the n900 behind nat? Jun 23 10:10:48 Sipgate Jun 23 10:10:49 FireFly|n900, thank you very much Jun 23 10:10:52 Worked easily Jun 23 10:12:12 robbiethe1st: "Due to the increased volume of new registrations within the last few weeks, we have unfortunately ran out of free numbers in your area and we are currently not able to offer you any alternative free phone number at the moment" :( Jun 23 10:12:39 I don't even want a 'free number' Jun 23 10:13:08 tried pbxes.com, also not working Jun 23 10:17:01 \o/ iptel.org works Jun 23 10:23:05 bah. calling out works but calling in doesn't. Jun 23 10:27:43 this sucks. Jun 23 10:39:33 Now some nameless nokia engineer says that Elop is lying about MeeGo... That they could easily release multiple devices.. nice. Jun 23 10:39:34 now it works. oh well Jun 23 10:42:11 PolarFox: link? Jun 23 10:43:31 http://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/my-disagreement-with-elop-on-meego/ Jun 23 10:43:42 mameo the so good system.why nokia loss it Jun 23 10:44:29 pabs3: Story about that blog post is now in finnish media. Jun 23 10:45:03 hmm interesting Jun 23 10:45:14 DocScrutinizer Jun 23 10:45:32 old news but alien dalvik Jun 23 10:45:33 I have a friend's phone with me, he wanted it flashed and stuff, he had a lock code and it persisted after flashing Jun 23 10:46:50 Yea, old news. Jun 23 10:47:05 flash pr1.2 Jun 23 10:47:12 Grab the lock code, crack it with John the reaper Jun 23 10:47:20 or w/e Jun 23 10:48:08 any maemo/nokia folks going to DebConf11? Jun 23 10:48:42 robbiethe1st, I have the code, just saying that some old FW didn't ask for it after flashing Jun 23 10:49:03 Huh, interesting Jun 23 10:50:51 MohammadAG, flash pr1.2 Jun 23 10:53:03 PolarFox, I wouldn't call Felipe nameless though... :) Jun 23 10:54:12 andre__: Well.. Finnish media.. ;D Jun 23 10:55:06 I'm not one of the informed people in here ;) Jun 23 10:55:15 I just whined alot when I had my N900.. Jun 23 10:55:26 Now I whine because I don't have it :( Jun 23 10:57:27 heh Jun 23 11:05:28 11 a Jun 23 11:05:33 16 a Jun 23 11:05:39 9 a Jun 23 11:37:54 MohammadAG: TOLDYA Jun 23 11:38:39 psychologe: color spaming is asking for kick Jun 23 11:39:22 l am sorry Jun 23 11:39:46 * RST38h yawns Jun 23 11:41:41 MohammadAG: you tested if flashing both images cured the lockcode query issue? Jun 23 11:42:24 MohammadAG: ...as that's be the right behaviour for this lockcode thing Jun 23 11:43:59 * DocScrutinizer feels a bit embarrassed to have talked user0 and others thru endless series of hoops that were doomed to fail Jun 23 11:47:58 MohammadAG: also psychologe 's suggestion to flash PR1.2 COMBINED might or might not help, depending on what Nokia did to "fix" this issue Jun 23 11:49:04 flash PR1.2 ,code will clean Jun 23 11:49:38 with ssh access : install packe code-reset Jun 23 11:51:21 psychologe: you actually tested that? Jun 23 11:51:52 khertan: missing the point Jun 23 11:52:40 my friend try it ,it's ok Jun 23 11:52:48 Ah, I see Elop did explicitely say that N9 is the last device> Jun 23 11:52:49 ? Jun 23 11:52:58 but PR1.3 can'5 Jun 23 11:53:02 but PR1.3 can't Jun 23 11:53:06 from 1.3 back to 1.2, after flashing 1.3 asked for code? Jun 23 11:53:23 RST38h: indeed Jun 23 11:53:47 YES Jun 23 11:53:56 very good, thanks Jun 23 11:55:00 mmm, since this is #maemo, can i ask if anyone's been able to get the rootfs.lzo file opened up? Jun 23 11:55:03 so Nokia just "fixed" the mce-whatever process that asks for lockcode, and probably checks for a cookie on eMMC somewhere in PR1.3 version Jun 23 11:55:41 the simple but usually sufficient approach Jun 23 11:56:05 not for using PR1.2 rootfs though ;-P Jun 23 11:56:56 to fix it for PR1.2 "crack" as well, they had to patch NOLO Jun 23 11:57:42 which still leaves vulnerability of using coldflashing Jun 23 11:58:01 so they can as well not care at all Jun 23 11:59:50 they could take down PR1.2 COMBINED from their download site ;-P Jun 23 12:00:09 silly move Jun 23 12:00:43 then again, most people who steal phones don't usually know how to use flasher ;) Jun 23 12:01:13 yeah, the whole purpose is rather questionable in the end Jun 23 12:01:17 AAnd you typically lose most data during the flash, so... Jun 23 12:01:30 either they know, then they will crack lockcode anyway Jun 23 12:01:44 or they dont, and just go "meh" Jun 23 12:01:52 'Course, you can alternately just flash a backupmenu image, set it up, and get everything other than was on the rootfs... Jun 23 12:02:13 exactly Jun 23 12:02:20 infinite attack vectors Jun 23 12:02:37 boot meego from uSD, via flasher Jun 23 12:02:42 and recover all Jun 23 12:02:58 Physicall ownership = ownership, really. Jun 23 12:03:12 unless you use proper cryptofs Jun 23 12:03:26 also, n900 wasn't designed for full device encryption Jun 23 12:03:33 as we're painfully aware of Jun 23 12:03:34 yup Jun 23 12:04:31 the most you could do locking down the thing would be crippling osso-usb-export, adding a lockcode, crypting /home and remounting everything, etc Jun 23 12:04:31 ok, so general advice: GET YOUR LOCKCODE prior to flashing. If you missed on that, flash PR1.2 rootfs and reset it Jun 23 12:05:39 patching NOLO would help a lot Jun 23 12:05:55 DocScrutinizer: well. how do we patch NOLO? Jun 23 12:06:00 >>>>>closed source Jun 23 12:06:09 not at all, as we're missing source Jun 23 12:06:23 just mentioning it Jun 23 12:06:31 unless we do it like the OpeniBoot people and rewrite it ourselves Jun 23 12:06:34 Hurrian: ...Or just mount an encrypted FS on MyDocs, and symlink your important data into that Jun 23 12:06:37 DocScrutinizer, basically, he had the device ask for a lock code every hour or something Jun 23 12:06:39 *as a file in Jun 23 12:06:43 I know the code, so I didn't disable this Jun 23 12:06:58 the device asked for the code before and after flashing Jun 23 12:07:23 seems it even asks after flashing on devices that didn't ask before Jun 23 12:07:45 as soon as you've changed lock code from default to sth different Jun 23 12:08:00 Doc: O RLY? Jun 23 12:08:03 wow, that's broken Jun 23 12:08:22 there shouldve been a flag in CAL to indicate whether lock is ON or OFF Jun 23 12:08:30 uhh, like the Symbian phones Jun 23 12:08:38 Hurrian: mhm Jun 23 12:08:54 just that it's not like that, at least for PR1.2 Jun 23 12:09:35 that's a rather sewious regression then] Jun 23 12:10:32 so what they probably do is set a flag on both rootfs (there it's known to be in gconf) and on eMMC (there unknown yet), and if any of both is set, then ask for lockcode if it's not the default 12345 Jun 23 12:10:46 * SpeedEvil expands into 4 clones, and sings as a barbershop quartet on the theme of how fun it is to enter bugs into bugzilla. Jun 23 12:10:48 ah Jun 23 12:10:59 DocScrutinizer, afaik only if you have it set to lock after some time Jun 23 12:11:33 user0 claimed different Jun 23 12:12:09 moo gentlemen Jun 23 12:12:18 baaa javispedro Jun 23 12:12:22 moo, just finished shagging another cow Jun 23 12:12:47 huh, so elop also just showed off the first wp7 device? Jun 23 12:12:52 There is a piece of good news about Elop though: he has never spent more than a year on a job Jun 23 12:12:54 moo javispedro Jun 23 12:13:05 nid0: and elop doesn't care whether the N9 is a flop or a hit Jun 23 12:13:12 RST38h: there's always a first time! Jun 23 12:13:20 wasted RD dollars indeed Jun 23 12:13:34 javispedro: the chances of this one being the first time are kinda slim though Jun 23 12:13:36 remember, MS won't certify a device for WP7 if it doesnt have the buttons Jun 23 12:13:59 bit dumb telling a load of journos to turn off all their cameras because hes gonna show them something he doesnt want getting out Jun 23 12:14:04 then whipping out a new phone Jun 23 12:14:40 haha Jun 23 12:14:52 nid0: not dumb Jun 23 12:15:02 * SpeedEvil wonders if the CEO needs to sign NDAs. Jun 23 12:15:17 javispedro: practically every WP7 device looks very much the same. Jun 23 12:15:42 slab, the nav buttons, and screen pixel density Jun 23 12:15:55 where are the nav buttons on this one btw? Jun 23 12:15:55 MS controls how devices with WP7 are being built Jun 23 12:15:59 it seems like nokia have got carte blanche to ignore that Jun 23 12:16:00 MS is very, very strict about this Jun 23 12:16:08 as the new one's identical to the n9 but with a camera button Jun 23 12:16:21 I hate how KDE restores everything I had open before shutting down Jun 23 12:16:34 MAG, gnome3 does this too by default Jun 23 12:16:35 MohammadAG: you can turn that off somehow. I forget how. Jun 23 12:16:45 OS X Lion now does this too Jun 23 12:16:48 WHY Jun 23 12:16:48 That's useful in some peoples opinions Jun 23 12:16:54 MohammadAG: change it in KDE sysconfig Jun 23 12:16:59 yer, tbh its incredibly useful Jun 23 12:17:00 Pretty sure that is possible to shut off Jun 23 12:17:07 FIQ, useful for people who only browse facebook and the like Jun 23 12:17:10 implementing a custom enhanced lockscreen, QWidget/QML? Jun 23 12:17:11 it's the unix way Jun 23 12:17:18 when i say shut down, i say SHUT DOWN Jun 23 12:17:28 and it shuts down Jun 23 12:17:40 and no, windows, shutting down does not take 20 minutes Jun 23 12:17:48 same goes for android Jun 23 12:17:50 and iOS Jun 23 12:17:59 KDEsystemsettings->extended->sessionmanagement Jun 23 12:18:09 Hurrian: ive seen windows take 20 mins to shutdown before on numerous occasions. Jun 23 12:18:11 MohammadAG: ^^^ Jun 23 12:18:36 I have as well Jun 23 12:18:52 ty DocScrutinizer Jun 23 12:18:56 yw Jun 23 12:18:59 only the other day i pulled the plug on a w2k3 server because i was cheesed off with waiting for it. Jun 23 12:19:02 Usually it is when it feels like installing some random things within windows update Jun 23 12:19:07 even my tablet only take like 5 mins to shutdown win7 after a huge round of updates, maybe try not running it on a toaster Jun 23 12:19:18 DocScrutinizer: are the channel logs true? was your launchpad application approved???? Jun 23 12:19:29 yes Jun 23 12:19:33 nid0, running it on a sandy bridge i5-2500k + 128GB SSD Jun 23 12:19:36 GOD HEAVENS! Jun 23 12:19:36 so again, should I use QML or QWidget for the custom lockscreen? Jun 23 12:19:37 deffo not a toaster Jun 23 12:19:40 BUT.... Jun 23 12:19:49 MohammadAG: QWidget !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jun 23 12:19:53 so what the hell does launchpad have against me?? Jun 23 12:19:56 NO BUTS Jun 23 12:20:01 javispedro: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?225798-N950-avaialbility&p=848505#post848505 Jun 23 12:20:21 DocScrutinizer: I am not there for the devices Jun 23 12:20:21 javispedro: it s not against you ... it s against everyone which aren't applying for a windows phone Jun 23 12:20:33 (as there is no win phone ... it s against everyone) Jun 23 12:21:01 * MohammadAG wonders how good of a UI he can get with QWidgets Jun 23 12:21:04 ok, where do I complain Jun 23 12:21:06 javispedro: apply again. They accepted "blablabla" as my reason to join Jun 23 12:21:17 DocScrutinizer: cannot: it says my application is in progress!! Jun 23 12:21:18 ;-P Jun 23 12:21:26 DocScrutinizer: REALLY??? Jun 23 12:21:28 ohfsck Jun 23 12:21:30 "blablablabla" Jun 23 12:21:30 ?? Jun 23 12:21:34 yes Jun 23 12:21:39 literally??? Jun 23 12:21:43 yes!! Jun 23 12:21:44 * javispedro curses Jun 23 12:22:24 I mailed support though, whining about the whole case and why I entered blablabla on 4th time trying Jun 23 12:22:31 maybe that's been it Jun 23 12:22:44 DocScrutinizer: tell me who to spam Jun 23 12:22:54 support link Jun 23 12:23:02 on that friggin page Jun 23 12:23:25 stephen.elop@nokia.com Jun 23 12:23:38 LOL Jun 23 12:24:03 "There is an existing membership application already for this program. The applicant will be notified by e-mail once the membership application has been reviewed. " Jun 23 12:24:17 and I made my application back when they had the _old_ design Jun 23 12:24:44 fsck Jun 23 12:24:50 tell that to support Jun 23 12:25:36 I think I used https://www.developer.nokia.com/General/Website_Feedback.xhtml Jun 23 12:28:43 done Jun 23 12:29:15 * javispedro -> lunch Jun 23 12:29:24 mmpf, 5 N900 on remote-device-access, no N950 though Jun 23 12:43:39 regarding nfc: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/01/netcom-shows-off-microsd-card-with-integrated-nfc-goodness-vide/ Jun 23 12:44:46 does nfc-on-microsd also come with specs for writing a driver... Jun 23 12:46:01 first rule is that neither the back cover nor the microSD card holder should be made out of metal; Jun 23 12:46:05 teee heee Jun 23 12:46:26 lol Jun 23 12:46:39 yawn Jun 23 12:46:49 then again, those card shields are easily removable Jun 23 12:46:57 they dont need device disassembly Jun 23 12:49:05 There have been all sorts of completely wacky SDs. Jun 23 12:49:07 One with GPS Jun 23 12:49:21 so only company launchpad members can purchase dev devices? Jun 23 12:49:50 As I understand, yes. Jun 23 12:51:32 Having only recently bought a N900, I dont much care about the N9 or the N950 Jun 23 12:51:35 :P Jun 23 12:52:06 >The Nokia N9-00 is a smartphone made by Nokia based on the MeeGo "Harmattan" mobile operating system. Jun 23 12:52:11 does not compute Jun 23 12:52:26 first, did they get meego cert for it? Jun 23 12:52:59 second, i dont remember nokia naming a meego instance "harmattan" Jun 23 12:53:13 iirc "harmattan" + Moblin became mainline meego Jun 23 12:55:50 * jonwil is sad that Maemo bug 8347 is unlikely to be fixed :( Jun 23 12:55:51 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available Jun 23 12:58:09 Oh! Jun 23 12:58:16 Does n950 use a related modem? Jun 23 13:01:05 The sad fact is that its a 1-line change but its in a closed binary that has too many exports to the rest of the system to be easily replaced with an open-source clone Jun 23 13:03:52 Although right now I would be happy if I could figure out why Findmine from the Jun 23 13:03:55 from the repos Jun 23 13:03:57 wont boot Jun 23 13:04:02 Hurrian, what are you ON? Jun 23 13:04:04 draws some stuff then fails Jun 23 13:04:13 and quits Jun 23 13:04:31 Just do a google search for Harmattan MeeGo Jun 23 13:04:35 Any ideas how I can debug what Findmine might be doing or why its suddenly failing? Jun 23 13:04:38 and yes, they got TSG approval to use the name Jun 23 13:04:54 I tried a reinstall and and a reboot and etc and no luck :( Jun 23 13:05:06 jonwil, RE: Having only recently bought a N900, I dont much care about the N9 or the N950 Jun 23 13:05:12 That'll change soon enough, believe me Jun 23 13:05:48 Back just before the N900 got released, even though I knew it was coming, I brought an N810. When the N900 got released I thought I could contain myself Jun 23 13:06:17 I only bought one in January and I just cant afford to replace my "new" phone so soon after purchase Jun 23 13:08:27 you can always sell your old new phone and buy a genuinely new one Jun 23 13:08:57 some people seem to want to own as many n900 as they can put their hands on here Jun 23 13:09:10 But if you buy an N9 Jun 23 13:09:12 well I have no interest in buying a N9 Jun 23 13:09:17 Your only allowed to get it in black Jun 23 13:09:22 ;) Jun 23 13:09:31 since I specifically bought the N900 because of the physical keyboard Jun 23 13:09:55 not like the n900 had many colors to choose from Jun 23 13:10:21 And the N950 isn't likely to be something I can obtain here in Australia with an Australian warranty that I can get fixed at the local Nokia Care Jun 23 13:10:45 jonwil, no N950 will come with any warranty, since that is the devkit Jun 23 13:10:54 that's not for public consumption either Jun 23 13:11:03 The N9 will come in Australia, with Nokia Care here Jun 23 13:11:08 is the alien dalvik application available for the N900 ? Jun 23 13:11:09 I have bought my n900 in May, for ~ 150$. Since I expect the n9/n950 will/would be close to 1000$ here, no much offset in selling n900 for n9 Jun 23 13:11:09 but I dont want an N9 Jun 23 13:11:36 so I have no option but to keep my N900 as the N950 is not likely to be available to me Jun 23 13:12:10 the n9 is horrible Jun 23 13:12:13 The N950 is only available to developers, but the N9 will be available in Australia Jun 23 13:12:27 i don't know wtf was nokia thinking Jun 23 13:12:33 what exactly are you defining as "not like to be _available to me_" Jun 23 13:12:39 likely* Jun 23 13:12:59 the only hope is the fact that they did design the n950, and making 5 units is going to be a waste Jun 23 13:13:03 they were and are thinking about a phone for human beings looking for a phone and not a pocket linux box Jun 23 13:13:19 Choom: well they thought wrong, because nobody will buy it for that purpose Jun 23 13:13:28 I will Jun 23 13:13:30 because for normal phones there's android and the iphone Jun 23 13:13:40 and many iphone users have demonstrated interest in it Jun 23 13:14:05 anyway, they're evidently capable of making n950s Jun 23 13:14:08 why won't they sell me one Jun 23 13:14:23 i want a pocket linux box heh Jun 23 13:14:26 kerio, manufacturing/carrier issues Jun 23 13:14:34 I do expect the N9 to sell a lot better than the N900 Jun 23 13:14:34 carrier issues? :| Jun 23 13:14:37 Also Jun 23 13:14:38 i am sure there is a pretty big market for that Jun 23 13:14:38 i want to buy it from nokia Jun 23 13:14:51 They have designed the N9 for both MeeGo and WP7 Jun 23 13:15:00 i don't want a qwertyless n9 :( Jun 23 13:15:15 and i sure in hell dont want winmob Jun 23 13:15:18 Macer: you mean you don't want a qwertyless nit Jun 23 13:15:18 That's why they are selling the N9, because they can mass produce them for both markets Jun 23 13:15:22 the n9 is qwertyless Jun 23 13:15:28 kerio: nope. phone too Jun 23 13:15:32 i know it is Jun 23 13:15:34 well, yeah Jun 23 13:15:38 nit/phone, like the n900 Jun 23 13:15:47 which is why i hope they release the n950 to the masses Jun 23 13:16:12 kerio: well. i would consider it more of a laptop in my pocket Jun 23 13:16:15 Nokia is very puzzling , why would they tie themselves down to a single OS, if an individual is an adherent Nokia fan and is interested in trying applications of functions available on Android or WinOS you are not forced to move away from Nokia Jun 23 13:16:16 but whatever :) Jun 23 13:16:26 they've said they won't pretty clearly Jun 23 13:16:28 an0therb0x: because elop Jun 23 13:16:34 everything elop has been doing lately, especially after revealing N9 has pointed towards him trying to kill all interest on the device, though. Jun 23 13:16:40 why no make great devices that runs Android WinOS and Meego Jun 23 13:16:50 petterw: they said the n950 will be released to devs Jun 23 13:16:56 next he could announce that all developers are fired before the device is coming to consumers Jun 23 13:17:00 an0therb0x: exclusivity agreements Jun 23 13:17:03 meego without a qwerty is retarded if it has xterm :) Jun 23 13:17:14 Macer: that's not "to the masses" Jun 23 13:17:14 Macer: and meego without xterm is retarded Jun 23 13:17:17 kirma: i can see that Jun 23 13:17:31 though I don't think wp7 is going to power the budget phones Jun 23 13:17:31 Macer, xterm is not included by default on the n9. You can install it though Jun 23 13:17:49 Termana: omg wtf? Jun 23 13:17:49 Termana: and how can you operate it? Jun 23 13:17:53 Choom: Samsung , HTC makes devices for Android and WinOS , why not Nokia ? Jun 23 13:17:57 with the vkb? Jun 23 13:17:58 with a virtual keyboard taking half of the screen away? Jun 23 13:17:59 kerio, wtf do you mean Jun 23 13:17:59 :) Jun 23 13:18:12 the n900 can barely display 79x25 Jun 23 13:18:13 or a bt keyboard Jun 23 13:18:21 and that's going fullscreen with no toolbar Jun 23 13:18:28 theres a question about a BT keyboard though Jun 23 13:18:34 DOES an n9 support them? Jun 23 13:18:34 an0therb0x: they might be trying to find a place in the new phone market Jun 23 13:18:42 because the current spec list doesnt include the hid profile Jun 23 13:20:00 nid0: there's no reason to believe it won't Jun 23 13:20:20 well, the spec list listing all the bluetooth profiles it supports, and not having hid on the list, would be a reason. Jun 23 13:20:24 oh well hope the N950 is available to the public because I like Maemo/Meego and the physical keyboard , btw I tried Meego 1.99 on the N900 it comes with firefox Jun 23 13:20:37 * ShadowJK has 133x27, not fullscreen. N900 Jun 23 13:21:16 Choom, dude, experience tells us that if obvious feature is not listed, it's probably missing Jun 23 13:21:28 it's a software issue Jun 23 13:21:43 well of course it is. Jun 23 13:21:56 it's not like the FM transmitter, which you can not fix Jun 23 13:22:04 it's more like MMS on the N900, which you can Jun 23 13:22:49 that's assuming it really isn't supported Jun 23 13:22:56 ShadowJK, that's not entirely true Jun 23 13:23:08 Wasn't like on the N800 or something there was something hidden Jun 23 13:23:09 IIRC Jun 23 13:23:58 eh? Jun 23 13:24:19 N800 supported bluetooth keyboards. N810 too. On N900 you need hacking Jun 23 13:25:10 No, I'm simply saying that there was a feature on I pretty sure it was the N800, that was not listed but was later discovered Jun 23 13:25:18 I'm pretty* Jun 23 13:25:41 interesting that the n9 apparently is actually going to ship with swype though Jun 23 13:26:14 are you sure that's swype, and not you, or someone else, confusing it with swipe? Jun 23 13:26:25 if theres confusion, its on nokia's spec list Jun 23 13:26:34 under "software platform" Jun 23 13:26:34 Swipe gesture instantly takes you back to the home view you started from Jun 23 13:26:44 then "applications" Jun 23 13:26:44 Key applications: Facebook, Twitter, Skype, Joikuspot Wi-Fi tethering, Accuweather, AP News, Swype, Track and Protect, Galaxy on Fire 2, Real Golf, Angry Birds Magic, Mail, video player, Drive, Feeds, search, calculator, Calendar, Contacts, music player, web browser, messaging, photos, photo editor, Ovi Store, Maps Jun 23 13:27:00 hm :-) Jun 23 13:30:38 how lockscreens should be http://i53.tinypic.com/2yoeb6a.jpg :) Jun 23 13:32:01 MohammadAG, playing bad music? Jun 23 13:32:06 just kidding :p Jun 23 13:35:46 hey guys .... anybody here familiar with qt? Jun 23 13:40:37 i am new study pyqt Jun 23 13:44:00 MoonTiger: depends ... Jun 23 13:46:01 oh god ... the #n9 camera button to take picture is soft ... Jun 23 13:46:03 this sucks Jun 23 13:46:11 like on iphone Jun 23 13:46:26 each time u move move your hand on the screen Jun 23 13:46:28 pfff Jun 23 13:46:31 hi, guys, may I ask few questions. I got sound issue with some games including abuse, alien blaster, seems all sdl games. Jun 23 13:46:53 do you have silent profile on? Jun 23 13:46:55 beside, another question is, I cannot use camera. Jun 23 13:47:02 silent profile? Jun 23 13:47:19 I can listen to music and play some other games fine Jun 23 13:47:31 khertan, community app #2 to be released for it will probably a shortcutd variant to repurpose the screen lock/power button when in the camera as a shutter :) Jun 23 13:47:55 One more issue is: the keyboard have tap sound - can I disable this feature? Jun 23 13:48:00 music player bypasses phone profile setting Jun 23 13:48:24 It is funny to see that Sea Ray did get a shutter button though :) Jun 23 13:48:31 Settings - display - touh screen vibration Jun 23 13:48:55 uh wait Jun 23 13:48:58 keyboard? Jun 23 13:49:14 X-Fade: the design story video for the n9 also has what now seem to be sea ray shown in it Jun 23 13:49:25 oh, settings - profile - key sounds Jun 23 13:49:42 as it shows a few shots of an n9 with an extra button, which originally looked like an older prototype or something Jun 23 13:49:43 nid02: Brothers :) Jun 23 13:50:45 ShadowJK: thanks Jun 23 13:51:33 ShadowJK: i saw other user post in forum about the same camera issue after setup cssu Jun 23 13:54:01 The usage of tense... I have to improve my English... Jun 23 13:56:08 khertan, thnx ... i was in the qt channel and they helped Jun 23 13:56:14 just learning the "qt way" Jun 23 13:56:24 and using the qtcreator thingy Jun 23 13:56:40 i think it is better to move to qt for n900 and future work yes? Jun 23 14:06:52 can someone tell me, how do i access my n810 via ssh? Jun 23 14:06:58 i've installed openssh Jun 23 14:10:51 MoonTiger: Yes it s ... even if qml isn't really ready for all apps, and qwidget is deprecated for future :) Jun 23 14:11:09 ok Jun 23 14:11:20 QWidget is NOT deprecated Jun 23 14:11:26 at least its c++ .... plain c is a nightmare after getting used to c++ / pyhton etc Jun 23 14:11:31 MeeGo deprecates it Jun 23 14:11:58 Harmattan doesn't Jun 23 14:12:07 Qt 5 has it marked as done, not deprecated Jun 23 14:12:14 what replaces it in meego? Jun 23 14:12:37 QML is the preferred UI toolkit Jun 23 14:12:50 MTF is nice, and deprecated Jun 23 14:13:16 qml is the script stuff no? Jun 23 14:13:29 MohammadAG: but Harmattan isn't already marked as deprecated ? :) Jun 23 14:13:52 khertan, Harmattan is quite nice Jun 23 14:14:08 MohammadAG: of course Harmattan is quite nice ... Jun 23 14:14:10 MoonTiger, Qt Metaobject Language Jun 23 14:14:18 a markup language Jun 23 14:14:21 *sigh* Jun 23 14:14:34 if you're a web dev it's easy to develop in Jun 23 14:14:45 exactly what I feel about it Jun 23 14:14:51 i dont want to do f***ing web dev :) Jun 23 14:14:58 MohammadAG: if you are a dev it s more easy to make really crappy design Jun 23 14:15:03 i do enough of that anyways Jun 23 14:15:07 in php / c# Jun 23 14:15:11 i want to do c++ Jun 23 14:15:13 but eventually you have to get with the times I guess Jun 23 14:15:15 i like c++ Jun 23 14:15:25 Me too Jun 23 14:15:31 I don't know QML well Jun 23 14:15:40 MoonTiger: it s not web dev ... it s a look like css/js interface to say ... put my fucking QObject at this place Jun 23 14:15:48 the rest can be done in c/c++ Jun 23 14:15:53 or whatever else Jun 23 14:16:03 so its the ms xaml approach Jun 23 14:16:07 the problem is that it s new, and not mature enought Jun 23 14:16:13 *sigh* squared Jun 23 14:16:21 don't know anything related to ms Jun 23 14:16:28 lucky u Jun 23 14:16:36 it s a choice Jun 23 14:16:44 well i have to pay the rent Jun 23 14:16:50 * khertan too Jun 23 14:17:00 so that currently involves businesses who are MS shops Jun 23 14:17:04 but i didn't use ms tech Jun 23 14:17:15 if i could fins OS based businesses i would be happy Jun 23 14:17:21 the product run on ms windows Jun 23 14:17:26 but i didn't touch it Jun 23 14:17:26 :) Jun 23 14:17:36 *sigh* Jun 23 14:17:52 i use 4D Jun 23 14:17:53 :) Jun 23 14:17:59 a frenchy dev env Jun 23 14:18:10 and for the rest ... PYTHON !!!! Jun 23 14:18:16 well i have to make big db driven web cms systems that run fast enough not to suck on IIS and .net Jun 23 14:18:45 can someone tell me, how do i access my n810 via ssh? Jun 23 14:18:58 tommis, find its ip and log in? Jun 23 14:18:59 ok.... there is some c#dot.net dev in my team Jun 23 14:19:13 khertan, u are a python ninja Jun 23 14:19:19 python lover :) Jun 23 14:19:34 i prefer c++ .... i dont quite get the python object model yet Jun 23 14:19:57 addict ... ninja ... probably not ... ninja are discrete Jun 23 14:20:03 hehe Jun 23 14:20:21 MoonTiger: depends of use case ... each language have advantage ... and problems Jun 23 14:20:37 anyway ... even in 4D i use python now for some tasks Jun 23 14:21:11 http://khertan.net/python_for_4d <<< for example ... this is a plugin to integrate python interpreter in 4D, and it s written in c Jun 23 14:21:12 :) Jun 23 14:21:40 khertan, Jun 23 14:21:44 i have a c project Jun 23 14:21:50 lcuk: hey ! Jun 23 14:21:53 \o Jun 23 14:21:53 MoonTiger, don't work Jun 23 14:22:17 lcuk: yeah ? a c project ? Jun 23 14:22:17 tommis, do ou have openssh installed on the n810? Jun 23 14:22:26 khertan, Jun 23 14:22:30 pseudocode Jun 23 14:22:34 called project_42 Jun 23 14:22:41 lcuk, i have a bunch of c code i wrote just lately for n900 .... what a throw back to the old days Jun 23 14:22:49 MoonTiger, yep Jun 23 14:22:55 khertan, 4d is like powerbuilder Jun 23 14:23:01 khertan, http://liqbase.net/liq.20110621_200232.codebox4.scr.png Jun 23 14:23:03 tommis, is it running? Jun 23 14:23:09 i dunno Jun 23 14:23:14 how do i check Jun 23 14:23:45 open a terminal and do "ps -e | grep ssh" Jun 23 14:23:47 ssh root@localhost worked on N810 itself so i quess it should pe Jun 23 14:23:50 be* Jun 23 14:24:00 lcuk: look like basic Jun 23 14:24:21 MoonTiger: more like WinDev, Or Omnis Jun 23 14:24:58 right Jun 23 14:25:16 lcuk: pretty slow write ... are you using n9 vkb ? Jun 23 14:25:16 tommis, does your network have a firewall? or port forwarding? Jun 23 14:25:17 :) Jun 23 14:25:31 khertan, Jun 23 14:25:40 what do you mean slow write? Jun 23 14:25:45 MoonTiger, i've got no idea Jun 23 14:25:46 that is hand-typed! Jun 23 14:25:55 oh ... really ? Jun 23 14:25:57 tommis, u might want to find out :) Jun 23 14:26:03 this explain that :) Jun 23 14:26:04 i va Jun 23 14:26:04 i should check probably Jun 23 14:26:10 i use a keyboard :) Jun 23 14:26:10 i should have tought that Jun 23 14:26:20 khertan, it is my hand writing but typed. Jun 23 14:26:20 tommis, np ;) Jun 23 14:26:22 but i am stupid and i need help on everything Jun 23 14:26:31 so I wrote some random pseudocode Jun 23 14:26:33 its cool to ask 1st time Jun 23 14:26:42 and a parser for it Jun 23 14:32:26 but but but lcuk.....you're smart :) Jun 23 14:32:41 MoonTiger, determined. Jun 23 14:32:42 lcuk: seems pretty nice Jun 23 14:33:10 MoonTiger, when I look to my left, I see: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110623_015300.liqbase-playground.scr.png Jun 23 14:36:51 well my lil identica app has been rewritten 4 times already Jun 23 14:37:14 MoonTiger, each developer has their birdsong Jun 23 14:37:26 libgrss / not libgrss .... libsoup / not libsoup Jun 23 14:37:30 is that 4 times on maemo or overall different oses? Jun 23 14:37:30 :) Jun 23 14:37:41 using diff approaches and libs Jun 23 14:37:47 to get it feeling right Jun 23 14:37:58 it wasnt feeling "elegant" Jun 23 14:38:04 Python, C/Gtk, C++/Qt, QML? :P Jun 23 14:38:16 well it was plain c Jun 23 14:38:22 now im going to use qt Jun 23 14:38:25 so c++ Jun 23 14:39:01 i know the world doesnt need another identica client but i want to do one for the fun and learning Jun 23 14:39:11 and cos i think heybuddy isnt so good on maemo Jun 23 14:39:22 it s like me ... i ve written pygtkeditor ... version 2 using gtksourceview ... version 3 not ... khteditor ... rewrite in qt ... khteditor 2 ... rewrite in more elegent qt :) Jun 23 14:39:38 its about the feel of it for me Jun 23 14:39:44 MoonTiger: Khweeteur can use identi.ca :) Jun 23 14:39:47 it has to "feel" right Jun 23 14:40:07 right but i dont like the interfaces and lack of multi account support Jun 23 14:40:33 oh ... multi account supprt Jun 23 14:40:35 doh! Jun 23 14:40:41 i just rm -rf / *'ed my N810. is this bad? Jun 23 14:40:53 tommis, probably yes Jun 23 14:40:53 reflash, win Jun 23 14:41:04 khertan, that looks sweet actually Jun 23 14:41:07 MoonTiger: it support multiaccount :) ... and after the ui ... it s a personnal choice Jun 23 14:41:09 is it in the dev repo? Jun 23 14:41:15 i can understand some didn't like it Jun 23 14:41:15 oh now the poor N810 tries to boot Jun 23 14:41:21 MoonTiger: yep in the dev repo Jun 23 14:41:27 i will install it now Jun 23 14:41:33 brb in 10 min Jun 23 14:42:25 khertan, 27mb for khweeteur?? Jun 23 14:42:37 Probably python Jun 23 14:42:59 thats why i want to write a native app Jun 23 14:43:17 i knew there was a reason Jun 23 14:43:19 :) Jun 23 14:43:58 if i take battery out of my N810 while its running the screen keeps the last image Jun 23 14:44:08 like ghost or something Jun 23 14:44:13 scary Jun 23 14:44:19 thats impossible Jun 23 14:44:24 ? Jun 23 14:44:28 it's python AND qt :) Jun 23 14:44:29 with no power the lcd goes dark Jun 23 14:44:53 hmm Jun 23 14:44:58 MoonTiger, actually the LCD goes slowly white, and the backlight dies Jun 23 14:45:04 haha Jun 23 14:45:16 ShadowJK, Python and PyQt actually :p Jun 23 14:45:17 great success Jun 23 14:45:20 i mean khweeteur sure looks nice and is a damn sight more powerful than i am going to write but 27mb?? Jun 23 14:45:54 ShadowJK, without paower an lcd goes dark .... no power = no "on" switches Jun 23 14:46:10 Gees Jun 23 14:46:31 Did the N9 suddenly roll in a bunch of turd lickers? Jun 23 14:47:15 Termana, ? Jun 23 14:47:19 /ignore #maemo Jun 23 14:47:26 MoonTiger, it's actually one of the ways you can tell if your N900 has bad battery contacts, if it goes white just before getting entirely black (because backlight also went away) Jun 23 14:47:35 ahhhhhhh Jun 23 14:47:58 ShadowJK, but thats n900 specific and it will go dark without paower Jun 23 14:48:07 MoonTiger, it's quite obvious you have not used an N810 Jun 23 14:48:12 just it might do something else for a few seconds before going dark Jun 23 14:48:20 Termana, i have an n810 Jun 23 14:48:21 thanks Jun 23 14:48:28 i wrote software for it Jun 23 14:48:30 thanks Jun 23 14:48:33 next Jun 23 14:48:53 Pull the fucking battery out of it while it's stuck on the bootloader dipshit Jun 23 14:49:08 mine didnt get stuck on the bootloader so i cant Jun 23 14:49:10 dipshit Jun 23 14:49:34 Then stop talking about things that you have no clue about Jun 23 14:49:40 and if you have managed to create an lcd that retains an image after having no power you should file for a nobel prize Jun 23 14:50:05 Actually my SmartQ 7 does it too. It has sysfs nodes exposing the power controls for lcd and backlight. When just lcd power is cut, it fades to white. When it "properly" switches off screen, the software coordinates painting the screen black, switching off backlight, switching off lcd Jun 23 14:50:29 how can it be "white" with no power?? Jun 23 14:50:46 it's probably the default state :-) Jun 23 14:51:06 but white is the generating of light Jun 23 14:51:12 black is the absence of light Jun 23 14:51:18 no power = no light Jun 23 14:51:32 what am i missing? Jun 23 14:51:43 intelligence Jun 23 14:51:51 possily Jun 23 14:51:58 +b Jun 23 14:52:02 typing skills for sure Jun 23 14:52:48 backlight is on. The LCD normally either passes or blocks light by using electrical current to make crystals align in a certain direction polarizing the light. If the crystals naturally pass light through with no power applied, it'll look white Jun 23 14:53:08 I think the N900's default is black Jun 23 14:53:12 from the reflected light? Jun 23 14:53:30 also from the dying backlight Jun 23 14:53:36 it has bigger power buffer Jun 23 14:53:38 the dying backlight yes of course Jun 23 14:53:49 but when that has gone Jun 23 14:53:51 you know the crystals dont exactly change the state as soon the power is cut Jun 23 14:53:56 yes of course Jun 23 14:54:00 and on SmartQ7 I can turn lcd off and keep backlight on :) Jun 23 14:54:03 thats why i said when it has *no* power Jun 23 14:54:27 so the front layer allows the light to pass Jun 23 14:54:37 and since there is no backlight, its not bright white Jun 23 14:54:41 but pass from where? Jun 23 14:54:46 ahhhh ok Jun 23 14:54:49 you know how LCDs work? Jun 23 14:54:52 yes Jun 23 14:54:57 well i think so Jun 23 14:55:09 Anyway, google admitted on Earth Day that "turning out the lights" on google.com frontpage (they gave it black background) actually wasted more power, because it takes more power to display black on lcd than to display white :P Jun 23 14:55:21 liquid crystal between 2 sheets of plastic that either block or allow light Jun 23 14:55:35 ShadowJK: that depends on the LCD Jun 23 14:55:48 so there are black and white lcds? Jun 23 14:55:55 yes, of course Jun 23 14:56:07 not "black and white" as in monochrome Jun 23 14:56:07 black means no light is being passed, white means all light is being passed Jun 23 14:56:13 i mean black lcds and white lcds Jun 23 14:56:21 yes Jun 23 14:56:38 but where does the light "pass" from if it has no power? Jun 23 14:57:10 transflection. Jun 23 14:57:18 ok so reflected light Jun 23 14:57:37 if the crystals in the active layer display a parallel alignment to the polarizing filter in the active layer, light passes through by default Jun 23 14:57:39 My watch is actually hybrid, the numbers appear black under reflected light, but the backlight has inverted polarisation compared to reflected light, so when i activate backlight the background appears black and the numbers white :) Jun 23 14:57:47 MoonTiger, when this is all done, you can have some of my ice cream. It's cookies and cream, it'll make you feel better. Jun 23 14:58:01 Termana, ok thnx ... my head hurts already Jun 23 14:58:10 http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/23/nokias-first-windows-phone-images-and-video/ <<< look like elop is trying to kill the MeeGo n9 buzz Jun 23 14:58:12 stop using it then Jun 23 14:58:25 khertan: let me link you the full video Jun 23 14:58:29 hiemanshu, ok if you willstart being more polite Jun 23 14:58:33 if you turn the polarizing filter 90 degrees the crystals in the active filter will align perpendicularly to the polarizing filter thus preventing light from passing by default Jun 23 14:58:44 and a french joke : Elop ton windows phone, on en a rien à SeeRay Jun 23 14:58:50 MoonTiger: you know I am just kidding :P Jun 23 14:58:50 choom ok got it Jun 23 14:58:52 khertan: http://www.technet.hu/telefon/20110624/exkluziv_video_elop_bemutatja_az_elso_windowsos_nokiat/ Jun 23 14:59:00 hiemanshu: no need to view this crappy os ... Jun 23 14:59:00 * MoonTiger is feeling sensitive Jun 23 14:59:03 :) Jun 23 14:59:08 ancient finnish joke: Mokia Jun 23 14:59:16 khertan: thats the full video :P Jun 23 14:59:27 (it means screw-up-ia) Jun 23 14:59:30 where he talks about the N9, and how the UX from the N9 will stay Jun 23 14:59:35 god he's a knob Jun 23 15:01:27 nid0, Bluetooth keyboards are supported. Jun 23 15:01:48 GAN900: great, so hid's just missing from the list but is there? Jun 23 15:01:53 wow winphone does actually blow Jun 23 15:02:08 i have a very good friend at ms and even he admits it sucks and isnt ready yet Jun 23 15:02:15 I would NEVER buy a Windows Phone 7 phone Jun 23 15:03:02 jonwil: I would buy one, spit on it, and throw it outside my windows, just for the lulz :P Jun 23 15:03:06 -s Jun 23 15:03:24 The #1 reason being that you need to pay Microsoft a yearly fee just to be able to write your own software for it. Jun 23 15:03:34 With the N900 or with an Android handset, you dont. Jun 23 15:04:26 sure but a java stack on a linux kernel, a living hell :P Jun 23 15:04:32 though I haven't heard good things about the android marketplace Jun 23 15:04:50 Yeah, Android is nowhere near as good from a development point of view as the N900 is IMO Jun 23 15:04:53 jonwil, many people will happily use microsoft software since the rest of their business infrastructure is windows too Jun 23 15:04:55 fwiw, the android market does have a registration fee for publishers Jun 23 15:05:21 At least with Android you can develop, sell, distribute and install software outside of Google and its marketplace Jun 23 15:06:04 you can on any device Jun 23 15:06:09 but needing a 1ghz processor with 512M of RAM just to run stuff decently? Jun 23 15:06:20 lcuk: iPhone? Jun 23 15:06:31 Both the iPhone and Windows Phone 7 are locked down Jun 23 15:06:33 hiemanshu, if that is the current stock coming out of the factories, why shouldn't it be used? Jun 23 15:06:38 and you need to pay money just to develop for them Jun 23 15:06:48 nid0, apparently. See qgil's blog comments. Jun 23 15:06:50 Which is why I would never buy either device Jun 23 15:06:52 hiemanshu, I tohught linux booted on iphones Jun 23 15:06:58 and ipods etc Jun 23 15:07:07 lcuk: like I said the other day, not everything :P Jun 23 15:07:14 details Jun 23 15:07:19 lcuk: well I was talking about low priced devices Jun 23 15:07:27 You can hack the iPhone but only if you own one of the older models that has known exploits Jun 23 15:07:29 lack of motivation from the linux hackers then ;) Jun 23 15:07:48 You cant walk in off the street and buy an iPhone/iPod/iPad right now and hack it Jun 23 15:07:52 lazy asses :P Jun 23 15:07:55 lcuk: they are working on it http://www.idroidproject.org/wiki/OpeniBoot Jun 23 15:08:03 good! Jun 23 15:08:21 lcuk: they are working on the kernels, and there are barely 8 people in the group working on about 4-5 devices Jun 23 15:08:43 hiemanshu, some parts of meego are similar Jun 23 15:09:01 lcuk: true, but this is the whole project :P Jun 23 15:09:10 roll up your sleeves to any favourite project where you can help Jun 23 15:09:43 hiemanshu, if the iphone stuff can work Jun 23 15:09:52 lcuk: I am looking to help, well but I'll be busy with my GSoC till about end of august Jun 23 15:09:58 it will be really good to see on identical hardware how we can make meego fly Jun 23 15:10:07 what is your gsoc? Jun 23 15:10:09 * lcuk was a mentor in 2009 Jun 23 15:10:35 lcuk: Fedora Events System Jun 23 15:10:40 * hiemanshu is a fedora contributor Jun 23 15:10:53 awesome Jun 23 15:11:17 hiemanshu, exactly what about he current events system isnt good? Jun 23 15:11:22 are the fedora app catalogues installable on meego netbook? Jun 23 15:11:39 I dont have a netbook to try it on :/ Jun 23 15:11:43 * hiemanshu is a poor student Jun 23 15:11:45 because people are wanting a regular set of desktop apps on their meego builds Jun 23 15:12:03 office and stuff Jun 23 15:12:50 hiemanshu, ahhhhhh i found it ... a web app Jun 23 15:12:51 got it Jun 23 15:12:52 lcuk: I'll need to get a decent netbook first to try it Jun 23 15:13:10 get an ideapad :) Jun 23 15:13:13 nice little devices Jun 23 15:13:22 lcuk: please donate :) Jun 23 15:13:23 1024*600 capacitive multitouch too Jun 23 15:13:50 is it powervr? Jun 23 15:13:54 I have places in my house for about 4 linked ones Jun 23 15:13:55 I am a student, dont expect me to have a lot of stuff Jun 23 15:13:56 no, atom Jun 23 15:14:02 it is nice though Jun 23 15:14:03 OK, this seems like pretty firm signal. Jun 23 15:14:07 and battery lasts forever Jun 23 15:14:15 GAN900, how do you find your ideapad? Jun 23 15:14:24 Announce Harmattan, stock goes up Jun 23 15:14:35 Announce WP7 prototype, stock goes back down. Jun 23 15:14:38 lcuk, shit. Jun 23 15:14:43 atom comes with either intel graphics, nvidia ion, or powervr in disguise Jun 23 15:14:44 really Jun 23 15:14:53 Crap TN panels on convertable netbooks are worthless. Jun 23 15:14:53 GAN900: i didn't see a problem with that :) Jun 23 15:14:54 ShadowJK, ahh yes Jun 23 15:15:02 but I dont use 3d so don't notice Jun 23 15:15:25 but you need 3d for meego Jun 23 15:15:26 ShadowJK, liqbase runs smoother on n900 than the ideapad! Jun 23 15:16:41 also, I searched for ideapad, results in order of poularity: core i5, Pentium U5400, Turion II N530, core i5, core i3, Jun 23 15:18:18 lcuk: about $450 in India, I'll probably get one in a few months Jun 23 15:19:52 where is liqbase for n900 ? Jun 23 15:20:03 it s not in the repo, isn't it ? Jun 23 15:24:53 khertan, i am not very good at packaging so I am just trying to keep repository updated, hold on I have meego instructions Jun 23 15:25:06 http://liqbase.net/liqbase.from.scratch.MeeGo.txt Jun 23 15:25:20 the repositories and instructions work on maemo Jun 23 15:25:41 they need tweaking and stuff, but have remained unchanged and in principle work on the n8x0 directly too Jun 23 15:25:47 lcuk: did I understand that as support when you meant "++ if possible" ? Jun 23 15:25:54 with enough disk space liqbase is buildable on device happily Jun 23 15:26:22 yes DocScrutinizer, I think having an amount of technical knowledge around enhances the channel Jun 23 15:26:34 like was just done with the keyboard backlights Jun 23 15:26:48 :) you are a regular and knowledgable member of this community Jun 23 15:26:53 lcuk: so you might consider how you could maybe help Jun 23 15:27:16 I'm definitely not expecting anything to come from quim Jun 23 15:27:31 if you got a better idea, I'm all ears Jun 23 15:27:57 thought about asking konttori Jun 23 15:28:42 maybe you can investigate what's the true situation inside about that issue, in some private chats Jun 23 15:29:12 not really DocScrutinizer Jun 23 15:29:22 a pity Jun 23 15:29:22 i have too much family stuff to worry about private chats Jun 23 15:29:33 aah Jun 23 15:30:17 so just coming in and out of public is easier on my mind for now, but talk about the simple things rather than complexifying it by hostmode stuff Jun 23 15:30:52 well, if you run into some Nokian that might be a worthy object for interrogations, just remember to ask about schematics and what he thinks about it Jun 23 15:30:55 DocScrutinizer, are you trying to get them to release schematics? When has the _ever_ happened from Nokia (besides leaks)? I thought that this would really be considered a dead end, after the run around with the N900 schematics Jun 23 15:31:45 Termana, it is a discussion for technical folks, as important to them as code is to devs Jun 23 15:31:57 or bugs for the testers Jun 23 15:32:06 Termana: not release, just let me have a look at them Jun 23 15:32:16 lol DocScrutinizer Jun 23 15:33:42 Termana: obviously Nokia never will *publish* schematics Jun 23 15:33:56 lcuk, yes, but unlike bugs and code, Nokia has continuously given the round around with schematics Jun 23 15:34:23 DocScrutinizer, what makes you think they are going to change their mind though. Last time they wouldn't let you look at them Jun 23 15:34:26 Termana, are there schematics for ferrari cars? Jun 23 15:34:40 shrug Jun 23 15:34:49 I'm just not giving up Jun 23 15:35:03 lcuk, don't ask me about cars, I am completely clueless about cars. But I would suppose so? Jun 23 15:35:04 and I feel I can help better when I got them Jun 23 15:35:14 For... the electronics? Jun 23 15:35:42 And I'm sure they have some sort of design documents for their cars Jun 23 15:35:47 Lets not talk about cars, ok? :p Jun 23 15:35:47 Termana, right Jun 23 15:35:54 Termana: your sw actually runs on that electronics - I know you don't want to hear that :-P Jun 23 15:36:00 but now, we used to get those same documents with hardware Jun 23 15:36:24 Anyone happen to know of links to pictures of n950 that can be used in wiki? Jun 23 15:37:28 o/ Jun 23 15:38:45 software running on electronics? nonsense! :p Jun 23 15:38:47 Something tells me, Nokia doesn't care about the fact that computers in the 80s/early 90s came with schematics - I hope this is not the reason you guys are going to give them the second time around Jun 23 15:38:55 it all runs "in the cloud" :P Jun 23 15:39:21 When your pushing a car uphill, you don't tell someone to jump in and hit the accelerator Jun 23 15:39:28 while it's in drive Jun 23 15:39:41 you tell them to hit the brakes, so you can rest for a while Jun 23 15:39:42 when the car is facing the people pushing Jun 23 15:39:54 pushing a car uphill is stupid anyway Jun 23 15:41:48 so is the software on the cloud Jun 23 15:41:50 * hiemanshu runs Jun 23 15:42:45 hiemanshu, I have an application that runs in the cloud Jun 23 15:42:51 It's called Precipitation Jun 23 15:42:54 ba dum tsss Jun 23 15:43:29 Termana: the output is rain, and when its corrupted it outputs hail? Jun 23 15:45:15 hiemanshu, nah man. Hail is just one of those bugs that turned out really good because it ruins idiots cars. So I called it a feature instead. Jun 23 15:46:33 greetings, Does anyone know if the n950 for general public use (opposed to developers) and is it maemo ? Jun 23 15:46:34 Termana: +1 :D Jun 23 15:46:47 newbie007: no and yes/no Jun 23 15:47:04 what's the os? Jun 23 15:47:39 well I guess it's up to the dev huh.. Jun 23 15:48:24 is maemo now hildon-desktop or some other transisitional state? Jun 23 15:50:21 Harmattan does not have hildon Jun 23 16:05:19 Watching Elop makes me want to punch kittens. Jun 23 16:06:15 is the full video up anywhere easy btw? Jun 23 16:06:21 http://www.mobile-review.com/fullnews/main/index_eng.shtml?33913#33913 Jun 23 16:07:33 Why did they break N9? :/ Jun 23 16:09:38 GeneralAntilles: poor kittens :( Jun 23 16:09:57 Elop needs to put his hands down sometimes when he's talking. Jun 23 16:16:28 GeneralAntilles: Nah, we might get Maggie to shoot him if he keeps it up Jun 23 16:16:42 http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/6/6a/Mr_Burns_evil.gif Jun 23 16:17:14 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/Mr_Burns.png is better at summing up his subtly Jun 23 16:20:02 Jaffa: the hot one from die hard 4.0? Jun 23 16:22:31 http://www.fplusd.org/uploads/pics/hgberndanzug.gif Jun 23 16:25:36 Jaffa, tweet that yet? Jun 23 16:30:38 http://i.imgur.com/SVuh1.png Jun 23 16:32:11 that leak is fake Jun 23 16:32:24 or rather, staged Jun 23 16:33:15 let us hope that the win phone ends up being a total failure Jun 23 16:33:41 well its not fake or staged, its not a leak Jun 23 16:33:45 this serves to show that there are internal tensions inside nokia though Jun 23 16:34:09 the ceo of a company announcing the company's new phone publicly to a room full of journalists isnt a "leak" by any stretch of the word's definition Jun 23 16:35:33 Sure it is - he said don't film this bit. Jun 23 16:40:14 whats the conversation app called if id like to start it from my terminal? Jun 23 16:42:33 It's like Apple during the 80s Jun 23 16:44:29 GAN900: you mean when they kicked steve jobs out? Jun 23 16:44:35 nokia did the opposite thing though Jun 23 16:44:57 instead of fiding a good ceo they hired a bad one Jun 23 16:45:26 they should have hired me instead :P Jun 23 16:45:28 they hire a trojan horse Jun 23 16:45:38 any person will be better than elop Jun 23 16:45:52 I'll take that as a compliment :P Jun 23 16:45:57 kerio, pitting Apple against Macintosh. Jun 23 16:46:32 So question, has anyone found a source for a replacement logic board for the n900 yet, seeing as how I doubt I can get my hands on the n950 anytime soon, I figured I would try to repair mine one more time, GSM chip seems ot be fried, just get communications error, blah blah, please reboot on every boot of the device Jun 23 16:48:29 Only way would be to either buy another N900 or to find someone with a broken N900 (e.g. broken screen) and salvage the logic board from there Jun 23 16:48:47 Seablade: resolder the chips Jun 23 16:49:08 DocScrutinizerNot completely certain my soldering chops are up to it, but that is my last resort yes Jun 23 16:49:09 Seablade: there *are no* replacement boards anymore afaik Jun 23 16:49:49 Seablade: some gentle hot air plus preheating on oven should do Jun 23 16:49:57 DocScrutinizer Well that is unfortunate Jun 23 16:50:43 Nokia themselves don'r repair N900 anymore when they can't fix a small part Jun 23 16:51:13 I wonder if theyll change the authorised replacement from n8's to n9's when theyre out Jun 23 16:51:20 In both cases when my N900 broke, it was replaced rather than repaired Jun 23 16:51:21 so if Nokia can't swap boards, I doubt you can find one Jun 23 16:51:28 with a new N900 Jun 23 16:51:33 once was for the USB Jun 23 16:51:38 and the other was for a busted flexboard Jun 23 16:52:21 Yea unfortunatly in the US with the single year warranty, otherwise I would have sent it back Jun 23 16:52:31 busted flexboard normally gets repaired by swapping the flexboard Jun 23 16:52:41 in my case they seemed to replace it rather than repair Jun 23 16:52:50 or thats what the info I got from nokia indicated Jun 23 16:53:11 in the case of the busted USB they fixed it very quickly Jun 23 16:53:34 and just said that a busted USB = automatic replacement no matter what Jun 23 16:53:56 Yea busted USB hasn't hit me but that I am fairly confident in my abilities to resolder, Surface mount chips on the other hand not so confident Jun 23 16:54:24 Since that happened, I am now VERY careful with the N900 and if I have the charger plugged in, I make sure the phone is somewhere where its impossible for it to be knocked to the ground Jun 23 16:54:28 I do a fair amount of sodlering, but the smallest I get is miniature plugs and jack typically for wireless mics and the like, this is a bit smaller;) Jun 23 16:56:36 * Seablade contemplates using a toaster to remelt the existing solder as he doesn't have a hot air gun... probably a bad idea:) Jun 23 16:56:54 PS Don't let me interrupt the Elop bashing either for the record;) Jun 23 16:59:36 * loft306 has used a toaster or a hotplate to reploadwhole boards... i but i wouldnt do it to it to my 900 if it hosed the usb port but thats just me Jun 23 16:59:52 *refloat Jun 23 17:00:14 loft306: Yea but in this case the USB port is fine, it is the GSM chip that is seemingly having problems Jun 23 17:00:27 tet Jun 23 17:00:30 heh Jun 23 17:00:35 loft306: It actually worked for you? Did you wrap in foil or anything? Jun 23 17:00:57 thot air gun? realy small one? Jun 23 17:01:03 *hot Jun 23 17:01:13 loft306: Nah toaster is what I was referring to Jun 23 17:01:22 i know Jun 23 17:01:45 loft306: No hot air gun available to me at this time sadly Jun 23 17:01:48 just thinking ot other ways to do it without refloating the whole thing Jun 23 17:02:02 hmm, that was a long day Jun 23 17:02:06 I know lots of people have used toasters and things to heat up and re-solder things like Xbox 360s and PS3s but I have never heard of it being done to something like a N900 before Jun 23 17:09:55 any exciting new news today, I've spent all day by a windtunnel Jun 23 17:09:57 ? Jun 23 17:10:08 lardman: elop announcing a wp7 device Jun 23 17:10:19 javispedro: I said exciting ;) Jun 23 17:10:25 lardman: Elop confirmed in an interview that N9 will be absolutely LAST Meego/Maemo device independently on its success Jun 23 17:10:29 everytime I see him doing a move, the more I think he's a chessmaster and this is a trap Jun 23 17:10:38 RST38h: well that is rubbish Jun 23 17:10:41 lardman: And leaked WP device photos show basically an N9 with WP Jun 23 17:10:49 WP? Jun 23 17:10:59 Windows Phone? Jun 23 17:11:12 lardman, thats what i thought too Jun 23 17:12:47 lardman: Also there is a nice fake letter from Sean Connery (circa 1989) telling Steve Jobs to fuck off with his advertising proposal Jun 23 17:12:59 :) Jun 23 17:13:17 lardman: Not sure if it can soothe the Elop-caused disappointment though Jun 23 17:13:27 no, that's true Jun 23 17:13:43 I feel sorry for the people who are employed at Nokia doing Linuxy stuff though Jun 23 17:14:19 Insanity Jun 23 17:15:29 which is why I made http://i.imgur.com/SVuh1.png Jun 23 17:15:49 he's not insane Jun 23 17:15:54 this is all a master plan Jun 23 17:15:58 and a big trap Jun 23 17:17:05 He kinda sounds like Al Gore Jun 23 17:17:14 "I'm super serial. Turn off your cameras." Jun 23 17:17:50 General: Sounds like a typical American idiot on a mission Jun 23 17:18:10 General: The one defining feature is inability to listen Jun 23 17:18:31 sounds like my mother in law ;) Jun 23 17:18:42 He is obama of the Phone world Jun 23 17:19:41 hmm, did someone ping me? scrollback is a bit long Jun 23 17:20:07 Not since you last spoke Jun 23 17:20:11 (unless I was discoed) Jun 23 17:20:19 Oh Jun 23 17:20:45 ok, irssi claimed highlight but cant remember if i was on from proxy since Jun 23 17:20:49 ds3: the N900 screen does okay in sunlight GenralAntilles: The Nokians seem to think it does OK. GenerlAntilles: We discussed it with frals earlier and he said he hasn't had any problems. Jun 23 17:21:12 hi, anyone got work usb speakers with n900, just fixed n8 micro-usb2usb line to work with n900, and installed usb host to n900. Now i get it to turn speakers on, but no sound. Think its how to make sound to go through usb to speakers. Probaly not easy, but do you have any suggestions? Tried mplayer and other things, still hoping that someone have had it working. Jun 23 17:21:30 Hmm 3 Minutes in a toaster on high in aluminum foil.... lets see how my n900 does now;) Jun 23 17:21:56 SpeedEvil: cheers Jun 23 17:22:01 frals: Would you happen to have links to any n9/n950 pictures/pictures from said devices. Jun 23 17:22:02 Lies Jun 23 17:22:06 I had nothing to do with that. Jun 23 17:22:09 I'd would save my juhannus Jun 23 17:22:26 * SpeedEvil is trying to update the wiki, and can't find any cc-by pics Jun 23 17:23:50 RST38h, except he's Canadian. Jun 23 17:24:31 he's surely been bastardized by the year he spent at MS Jun 23 17:25:10 long day, am going to head home Jun 23 17:25:18 I still reckon it's all an evil plot by juniper to get into software and phones Jun 23 17:25:20 hmmm, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html is interesting reading Jun 23 17:25:27 will try to catch you chaps tomorrow before another windtunnel stint Jun 23 17:25:31 have a nice evening all! Jun 23 17:25:34 javispedro, I'm pretty sure all Canadians come that way. *g* Jun 23 17:25:37 cya lardman ! Jun 23 17:25:47 to see just how much of Harmattan is new and how much of it is updated versions of maemo packages Jun 23 17:26:02 well 3 minutes is not enough, lets move on to 5 Jun 23 17:28:21 SpeedEvil: sorry, n Jun 23 17:28:27 no* Jun 23 17:28:28 k Jun 23 17:28:39 evil mr.burn-looking canadians! Jun 23 17:28:41 Thanks. Jun 23 17:29:20 (in a car heading for the bush so losing 3g all the time) Jun 23 17:29:20 kaari: you need the proper usb soundcard kernel driver Jun 23 17:29:38 frals: You want to use SSH+screen+irssi and your N950's keyboard Jun 23 17:30:34 hi jonwil - long time no see Jun 23 17:31:23 Still using my N900, still havent had the time or inspiration to do any actual dev for it :) Jun 23 17:31:51 Right now I want to get Findmine working again, it wont work even after uninstalling it with package manager and reinstalling it Jun 23 17:31:58 and restarting the device several times Jun 23 17:32:06 ok Doc, tell newbie hot to go forward Jun 23 17:32:18 just starts and then immediatley closes Jun 23 17:32:32 I wish I could find out why its closing Jun 23 17:33:15 do i have to turn kenrnel myself Jun 23 17:35:12 1st round of community N950s go out next week. Jun 23 17:35:18 Hopefully to the right people. Jun 23 17:36:16 Jaffa: i am, with horrible latency ;) Jun 23 17:39:11 Well if nothing else I have successfully burnt off all the dust on the board somehow;) Jun 23 17:39:39 Well not all, but seemingly a good amount, certainly looks cleaner anyways Jun 23 17:44:33 YAY, my FindMine problem was a corrupted config file Jun 23 17:44:36 now it works again :) Jun 23 17:52:02 How to install package from SDK repository into sysroot for using with Madde/QtCreator? (Fremantle) Jun 23 17:53:02 Some posts on tmo says there is no way to install packages into the sysroot. But don't really belive it.. how to develop apps which link to another libraries? Jun 23 17:54:52 divan_: You can extract the .deb files yourself to the madde sysroot. Or use scratchbox sdk Jun 23 17:55:57 gri_, thanks.. Jun 23 18:03:40 GeneralAntilles, did qgil say that somewhere? Jun 23 18:03:50 MohammadAG, what, about the bluetooth keyboard support? Jun 23 18:04:05 http://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt/#comment-2426 Jun 23 18:04:39 GeneralAntilles: It sucks, no kb Jun 23 18:04:52 GeneralAntilles: you know that qgil might be very meaning "you pair a keyboard after hiring a hacker to implement missing support for it" ;) Jun 23 18:05:33 Doubt it. Jun 23 18:05:37 Could be, but doubt it. Jun 23 18:06:34 GeneralAntilles, no, N950s going out next week Jun 23 18:06:43 Oh Jun 23 18:06:44 Yes. Jun 23 18:06:47 On the MeeGo forum Jun 23 18:06:51 Don't feel like sourcing it. Jun 23 18:06:55 In the N950 devkit thread. Jun 23 18:07:10 kaari: you need the proper usb soundcard kernel driver. anyone no how to make this to happen? Jun 23 18:07:11 "So what could the N9 disrupt?  Well, so far it’s done a number on the MeeGo and Maemo communities, http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&authuser=0&source=hp&q=N9+site%3Atalk.maemo.org&pbx=1&oq=N9+site:talk.maemo.org&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=10583l12301l1l9l7l1l0l0l0l345l1406l0.3.2.1l6&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=47abf8ce1604813c&biw=1077&bih=606." Jun 23 18:07:11 failed to find it =) Jun 23 18:07:17 --Texrat Jun 23 18:07:26 Ok 7 minutes and no change, I suppose keep moving up, but might not have time to right now Jun 23 18:07:44 * MohammadAG hopes he gets a device :/ Jun 23 18:08:07 Planning to take the best of Fremantle and rewrite it in Harmattan's context Jun 23 18:08:09 http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=22785&postcount=3 Jun 23 18:08:16 MohammadAG: hum? Jun 23 18:08:18 simple-brightness-applet would be the first thing in mind Jun 23 18:08:27 ah, you mean the best community apps? Jun 23 18:09:16 "the best from fremantle " looks like if you want to port hildon ;) Jun 23 18:09:25 but maybe that's because I'm still heavily biased =) Jun 23 18:10:26 the meego forum thread about n9devkit also proves how little devices there are Jun 23 18:10:54 So I know this is going to be a loaded question, but is there likely to be another way other than the Maemo Community Program to get a hold of the n950? I actually do some coding myself and wouldn't mind coding for Harmattan/Meego on a few things but my time is limited right now so I don't feel quite appropriate doing a loan style program like that Jun 23 18:10:58 you see jaffa saying "hopefully oldtimers are considered" and a few posts after it someone saying "hopefully newbies will be considered" Jun 23 18:11:27 I bet we will see in the next hours oldtimers thanking jaffa's post and newcomers thanking that other guy's post =) Jun 23 18:11:45 Seablade, not currently afaik Jun 23 18:12:03 apparently there are only 250 of them on planet earth Jun 23 18:12:20 gri_, simple extraction of deb package doesn't handle dependencies check on dpkg-buildpackage step :/ And mad dpkg -i seems not to work. Jun 23 18:12:44 divan_: madde is designed for apps that crossbuild nicely, sbox is designed for the rest Jun 23 18:12:51 javispedro, I'm no old timer but I thanked his post :p Jun 23 18:12:58 MohammadAG: you are an old timer by now Jun 23 18:13:56 really :D Jun 23 18:14:00 javispedro, yep, but what if I don't want to move to sbox only because I need one small package? Jun 23 18:14:25 MoonTiger: A real shame to be honest Jun 23 18:14:38 divan_: extract the package with dpkg -x, and make dpkg-buildpackage ignore build deps (see manpage) Jun 23 18:14:54 divan_: but this only really works for very very small packages... if it has any scripts, or symlinks, or sth.... go sbox. Jun 23 18:15:18 Seablade, wel if you look at nokia's history it really shouldn't be a surprise that they manage to completely f**k up the child of the N900 too eh? Jun 23 18:15:31 javispedro, ok, thanks. Jun 23 18:15:58 i mean i cant see how the N950 is any good for develping for the N9 anyways Jun 23 18:16:28 if you want to develop for the N9, get a N9 Jun 23 18:16:41 So, theres many people ready to code to meego, could you pass this problem to meego developers. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1000405 Jun 23 18:20:14 And of course, there is not way to change dpkg-buildpackage arguments within QtCreator. Erhh.. Jun 23 18:20:21 MoonTiger: True. Personally I don't mind developing for them, but it is really the preference for the form factor that would make me want to get the 950, without a hardware keyboard the n9 has a large strike against it compared to the n900 for me, and in which case I may as well just stick with the n900 Jun 23 18:20:23 s:not way:no way: Jun 23 18:20:43 Seablade, im sticking with my N900 as well Jun 23 18:20:50 as am I Jun 23 18:20:51 same for me, if cannot get n950 Jun 23 18:21:12 if a N950 type device did launch with comparable specs to the N9 plus a hardware keyboard i would buy one Jun 23 18:21:20 MoonTiger: My only thing is I have been holding off on replacing the n900 I am trying to fix till they announced the n950, and now that they did and that noone is going to be able to get it it means I gotta make a decision sadly Jun 23 18:21:57 N900s are cheaper these days Jun 23 18:22:05 but i hear you Jun 23 18:22:20 i think this is actually part of the plan to kill of maemo from nokia Jun 23 18:22:29 MoonTiger: Cheaper yes, but $350 for a used one when I am trying to close on a house is VERY tough Jun 23 18:22:31 to completely fragment and fracture the community Jun 23 18:22:48 MoonTiger: While I am not accepting that yet, I am not counting it out either Jun 23 18:22:56 kaari: you'd be better off linking a post with patch instead of binary kernel modules that don't show what changes have been made and dont work on meego Jun 23 18:23:18 Seablade, i got one in as-new condition from the US recently Jun 23 18:23:22 for $300 Jun 23 18:23:27 roughly 200 GBP Jun 23 18:24:16 MoonTiger: Yea, I can get them in good condition used from Amazon, which is probably what I will have to do as I can cash in credit card rewards to cut down the price significantly... of course if the decision comes down to new phone or working fridge in the house I am buying, guess which one I am choosing:) Jun 23 18:24:33 heh yah i hear you Jun 23 18:27:22 simple-brightness-applet would be the first thing in mind Jun 23 18:27:24 whats wrong with your N900 btw? Jun 23 18:27:31 MohammadAG: well, I'm doing ABL Jun 23 18:27:35 so there's that :P Jun 23 18:27:46 MoonTiger: The fun Communication Error, reboot device, never use it as a cell phone again Jun 23 18:27:48 not to discourage competition though, as they have two very different audiences Jun 23 18:28:01 dont know that one ... what causes it? Jun 23 18:28:26 MoonTiger: Most commonly seems to be a hardware failure, a broken connection somewhere Jun 23 18:28:33 * MoonTiger sighs Jun 23 18:28:36 that sux Jun 23 18:28:45 MoonTiger: But apparently from some people is is software, just not for most and not for me Jun 23 18:29:05 pff, who needs fridge Jun 23 18:29:08 i had (still do in fact) an N810 and that was fun Jun 23 18:29:21 Seablade: yeah, I know what you mean about having to choose between a commonly used household appliance and a flashy phone :( but i'm sure your family will get used to using only dried or freshly bought foods Jun 23 18:29:21 could always bluetooth for a GSM connection Jun 23 18:29:36 Docscrutinizer: ^^ Jun 23 18:29:36 rm_work, lol Jun 23 18:29:46 MoonTiger: I sitll have my n700 and n800, just came across both the other day as we pack:) Jun 23 18:30:02 MoonTiger: My wife's n900 still works fine as well, just mine has died Jun 23 18:30:06 yah i want to build a beowulf cluster with my spare devices one day Jun 23 18:30:31 running a modified haiku os Jun 23 18:30:34 :) Jun 23 18:30:52 Actually I am seriously considering whether I want to build a small app to do home automation through an ISYS Insteon/X10 programmable module Jun 23 18:31:02 Both the n700 and n800 would be great for it Jun 23 18:31:51 welp gotta go... festival here and beach parties happening tonight with fires on the beaches and fireworks etc Jun 23 18:32:35 MoonTiger: Have fun Jun 23 18:32:40 :) thnx Jun 23 18:33:28 MoonTiger: (beowulf) we cdonsidered that at OM for the remaining few thousand FR that never will sell Jun 23 18:33:31 Gotta go set a stage for rehearsal myself, then back to do a 10 minute bake in a toaster to see if that fixes this... Jun 23 18:34:16 So, first thing we need to do is a shortcut swipe to the app switch Jun 23 18:34:17 er Jun 23 18:34:23 or maybe a shortcut swipe to the last application Jun 23 18:35:02 GeneralAntilles: There is already that. Jun 23 18:35:20 Oh? Jun 23 18:35:21 GeneralAntilles: Swipe to the right -> open apps. Jun 23 18:35:34 Ehm from right to left. Jun 23 18:35:51 And last used app is on top. Jun 23 18:36:03 Need one for a quick alt-tab kinda thing. Jun 23 18:36:23 Well, that is just swipe, click on the app :) Jun 23 18:36:57 One for "open new browser window" and immediately switch to something else while waiting for page to load Jun 23 18:37:46 maybe there's "Open link in background", but i have doubts they'd add any useful features.. Jun 23 18:45:42 good morning, can somebody please have a look at this -> http://stirkbin.com/b11148 Jun 23 18:45:56 i'm getting high cpu activity regularly even when i'm not using the phone Jun 23 18:46:29 and when i receive an sms/email and i click on the bottom left corner to skip the message, the phone takes about 2 minutes to clear that message and mark it as read Jun 23 18:46:32 greetings from trackerd Jun 23 18:46:40 is this happening with anybody else? Jun 23 18:47:12 biston, lots of images on the device? Jun 23 18:47:40 yea, lots of thumbnails that got placed there from apps i guess Jun 23 18:48:07 could that be the only problem causing all this? Jun 23 18:50:17 dbus-daemon is used by top ? Jun 23 18:51:01 nope Jun 23 18:53:13 i just cleared about 3000 pics Jun 23 19:01:30 n900 camera automatic doing stuff: http://imagebin.org/159671 Jun 23 19:01:37 check the traffic lights, lol Jun 23 19:06:01 a blueish green... Jun 23 19:07:40 nox-: yeah Jun 23 19:08:00 currently theres heavy clouds outside and everyhting is in a rather brow light Jun 23 19:08:07 like you'd get with old movies Jun 23 19:08:11 kinda Jun 23 19:08:35 but no I can't capture the awseome moment, somethings filters it to a "normal" pic :/ Jun 23 19:09:19 s/brow/brown/ Jun 23 19:17:01 ShadowJK: didnt you read the thread, it concern both maemo and meego. For me is it to make boot from n900 to meego using uboot. what i read, its problem with some mmc cards anfd needs fix kernel module? Jun 23 19:18:29 kaari, I just pasted this in the meego-arm channel, and the reply was "If you're seeing a bug, please make a bugreport" Jun 23 19:18:52 I don't have a class 10 card though, so I can't test MeeGo on class 10. Jun 23 19:20:32 jeps, i try it. already sing-up to meego community, but kind of newbie to make bugreport. but i will try. this concern too maemo. Jun 23 19:21:06 There will be no official fix for Maemo. Jun 23 19:21:25 with my class 4 card everythings works fine, but with class10 i get read-only state. starnge Jun 23 19:21:53 dont need Jun 23 19:23:05 jeps, i should be in meego irc channel to tell it, infact im. but first time they didnt really take me serious. Jun 23 19:23:26 What brand is your card? Jun 23 19:23:35 kingston Jun 23 19:23:47 ah. Jun 23 19:24:07 and have been contcact with support and used several tools for the card Jun 23 19:24:20 the card is working Jun 23 19:24:32 kingston cards are broken by design :-) Jun 23 19:24:54 and pretty random. Not even kingston themselves know what components were used Jun 23 19:24:58 they no own factories Jun 23 19:25:08 and maybe, but it works everyother things nut not booting meego on n900 Jun 23 19:25:28 and i think i found the answer Jun 23 19:26:49 and if you read the trhread its some guy from texas instruments who make solution Jun 23 19:28:12 i paid 100 euros for the card, thats sad Jun 23 19:28:19 hello ! Jun 23 19:28:49 wtf! Jun 23 19:28:52 big card? Jun 23 19:29:03 16 g Jun 23 19:29:09 can someone help me bit with a noob thing ? I see there is a chromium package. however a search (apt-cache search chromium) doesnt give anything. why is that ??? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/chromium/5.0.369.2-maemo2/ Jun 23 19:29:18 somthing like 5 months ago Jun 23 19:29:49 is there chromium for maemo? Jun 23 19:29:58 yep, quite old Jun 23 19:30:14 then use opera :( Jun 23 19:30:39 kaari: I wanna try chromium. I am quite impressed right now with it Jun 23 19:30:49 I used to use firefox, but on n900 it sucks. Jun 23 19:31:11 and now on desktop, also, chromium is much faster than ff Jun 23 19:31:19 dont you like default webbrowser Jun 23 19:31:21 and version 5 of ff is not cool Jun 23 19:31:23 merlin1991, i guess the n900 camera app doesnt allow for manual white balancing? Jun 23 19:31:23 * ShadowJK uses opera on n900 Jun 23 19:31:29 microb ? not much Jun 23 19:31:34 it is good yes Jun 23 19:31:42 nox-: it does but for some reason that didn't work out either Jun 23 19:31:46 but chromium must be better :p Jun 23 19:31:59 at least on android chromium rocks Jun 23 19:32:01 its best for almost all, but then i use opere also Jun 23 19:32:12 merlin1991, :/ Jun 23 19:32:34 kaari: the question is, why http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/chromium/5.0.369.2-maemo2/ doesnt show here ? Jun 23 19:33:05 ShadowJK: you put your charge script offline? :) Jun 23 19:33:21 did I? Jun 23 19:33:39 oko, maybe i test it Jun 23 19:33:42 maybe i pasted a wrong url got 404 Jun 23 19:33:56 but well i had it here already and running it now Jun 23 19:34:12 charge21.sh.txt ? Jun 23 19:34:22 lets see if i improve it maybe rewrite it in C Jun 23 19:34:45 ah works .. i tried without .txt Jun 23 19:34:59 kpoman: copyright claims Jun 23 19:35:08 kpoman: it's in my onw repository Jun 23 19:35:13 jacekowski: oh ! do you know where to get it ? Jun 23 19:35:16 but micrb does it fot me, and wht i lags i uose opera. but now im installning chromium. maybe you could get iron browser to turn they code to arm Jun 23 19:35:22 jacekowski: how do I add it ? is it a new version ? Jun 23 19:35:35 kpoman: no it's same old version Jun 23 19:35:39 ShadowJK: eventually i am thinking to backoff the charge current when charge stop because of insufficient voltage and then restart charging Jun 23 19:35:46 jacekowski: newer one doesnt compile ? Jun 23 19:35:54 kpoman: since opera was released i stopped all work on chromium Jun 23 19:36:08 and run as realtime process Jun 23 19:36:12 kpoman: opera is much better Jun 23 19:36:25 jacekowski: it is good yes Jun 23 19:36:36 jacekowski: do you have other stuff on your repo ? Jun 23 19:36:41 kpoman: but if you want to try it, deb http://maemo.jacekowski.org/ fremantle free non-free Jun 23 19:36:58 jacekowski: where do I add that line ? Jun 23 19:37:05 also integrating dbus messages as bme does and configureable low level battery warning Jun 23 19:37:12 but no time now Jun 23 19:37:16 cehteh, actually haven't had any single event where not being realtime has had an impact :-) Jun 23 19:37:20 kpoman: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ Jun 23 19:37:25 jacekowski: let me see Jun 23 19:37:29 kpoman: create file in that folder Jun 23 19:37:33 kpoman: and add that line there Jun 23 19:37:35 On N8x0 it would be dangerous, because without software control the hardware runs amok Jun 23 19:37:48 ShadowJK: yes its more a gimmick .. under extreme load it may save you from not pinging the watchdog Jun 23 19:37:58 jacekowski: ok cool Jun 23 19:38:08 kpoman: only other program in that repository is program reseting lock code to 12345 Jun 23 19:38:10 Yeah it's never missed a ping so far Jun 23 19:38:11 it sleeps most of the time so there is no danger Jun 23 19:38:19 kpoman: if you forget it Jun 23 19:38:24 probably because it's tiny :P Jun 23 19:38:28 well tried it under real extreme load with much things swapped out? Jun 23 19:38:30 and busybox is tiny too :) Jun 23 19:38:46 been up to about 400M swap use Jun 23 19:38:50 prolly the device already prioritizes root processes with cgroups .. but better safe than sorry Jun 23 19:39:01 cehteh: no it doesnt Jun 23 19:39:04 mostly other maemo kernel bugs kill the device first though Jun 23 19:39:13 huh you have /bin/bash on top not busybox Jun 23 19:39:14 Nobody, knows how to get touch in with n950, like James Bond Jun 23 19:39:15 jacekowski: ok ! Jun 23 19:39:16 cehteh: i don't think there is support for cgroups in stock kernel Jun 23 19:39:28 there is Jun 23 19:39:31 /syspart Jun 23 19:39:35 jacekowski: iirc ohmd uses cgroups Jun 23 19:39:38 jacekowski: do you know of the most complete list of repos ? Jun 23 19:39:45 kpoman: nope Jun 23 19:39:45 for example I had missed that one yours Jun 23 19:39:56 (or whats the profile watching thing) Jun 23 19:40:13 np Jun 23 19:40:15 the thing which uses prolog under the hood to tune the device Jun 23 19:40:22 ohmd Jun 23 19:40:31 yes Jun 23 19:40:39 jacekowski: did you have many steps for compiling it ? apart from the scratchbox Jun 23 19:40:40 so that uses cgroups Jun 23 19:41:56 ShadowJK: if you want we can make a list of 'todo' someday for what a better bme needs apart from the charger control (dbus messages etc) Jun 23 19:42:00 kpoman: quite a bit Jun 23 19:42:06 maybe DocScrutinizer will be there then Jun 23 19:42:07 kpoman: lot of stuff there was arm unfriendly Jun 23 19:42:16 eh? Jun 23 19:42:23 kpoman: like js JUT Jun 23 19:42:23 jacekowski: oh but even if it is available also for android ? Jun 23 19:42:29 JIT* Jun 23 19:42:33 haha waekup call Jun 23 19:42:38 cehteh: you summoned me? Jun 23 19:42:40 bq27200.sh needs to be turned into C and/with a gui.. :P Jun 23 19:42:56 kpoman: there is no chrome for android Jun 23 19:43:11 oh ? Jun 23 19:43:17 DocScrutinizer: i am thinking (slow brainstorming) what better bme (charge21.sh maybe rewritten in C) would need Jun 23 19:43:26 their browser isnt crhome ? Jun 23 19:43:29 kpoman: no Jun 23 19:43:35 ah didnt know that Jun 23 19:43:38 kpoman: it is something else Jun 23 19:43:42 cehteh: an API in /sys Jun 23 19:43:43 ok Jun 23 19:43:47 see backlog .. most notably generating bme compatible dbus message, but having more freedom for configuration Jun 23 19:43:54 https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/2/28/494 Jun 23 19:43:58 DocScrutinizer: no kernel changes :P Jun 23 19:44:11 then forget it Jun 23 19:44:17 kpoman: i'm not even sure it's webkit based Jun 23 19:44:37 DocScrutinizer: well i want to have it useable on stock kernel too Jun 23 19:44:53 and i dont have the time and a spare device to burn :) Jun 23 19:45:02 kpoman: only work i've done on maemo port of it was to make it compile and work, and then fix some most serious bugs Jun 23 19:45:27 well then you need a kernel module working on stock kernel, that you can load for supporting proper battery anagement, and rmmod for using old bme crap Jun 23 19:45:35 jacekowski: ok... Jun 23 19:45:55 kpoman: but N900 is bit low on memory for anything like that Jun 23 19:45:58 DocScrutinizer: yeah may work .. but then kernel development is more pita than userland Jun 23 19:46:10 cehteh: I'm happy to help out with auditing and specs Jun 23 19:46:19 and it still needs a userland daemon for the events Jun 23 19:46:28 yes Jun 23 19:46:35 that's be a good design Jun 23 19:46:51 i am pragmatic here :) Jun 23 19:46:53 jacekowski: do you think it would be interesting to re-port it now that it is so fast ? :p Jun 23 19:47:10 i just thinking about adding the missing bits to charge21.sh Jun 23 19:47:19 kpoman: opera is faster Jun 23 19:47:27 kpoman: and chrome uses now even more memory Jun 23 19:47:37 kpoman: and that is major problem on n900 Jun 23 19:47:37 pragmatic? the forget about it, it's not worth the effort, if you want to do botch that can't go next rev even, not to mention upstream Jun 23 19:47:37 kpoman: ok :s Jun 23 19:47:46 kpoman: on n9 it may work Jun 23 19:48:08 kpoman: but it's not released yet Jun 23 19:48:09 has the n9 n950 the same bme crap? Jun 23 19:48:20 dunno yet Jun 23 19:48:22 possibly Jun 23 19:48:26 i mean, i dont care for upstream i want something working for me now Jun 23 19:48:31 bme was with us for few years Jun 23 19:48:39 BME has it's roots in rapuyama Jun 23 19:48:42 cehteh: probably yes Jun 23 19:49:09 is the n9 kernel completely open? Jun 23 19:49:15 no one knows :P Jun 23 19:49:42 would be awesome if its even a vanilla kernel .. but *cough* .. i have high doubts Jun 23 19:49:49 I'd think it's completely open as usual Jun 23 19:50:10 haha and lets see how old it will be .. 2.6.32? ... Jun 23 19:50:23 we had no closed kernel bits on fremantle either Jun 23 19:50:36 yep, exactly Jun 23 19:50:43 2.6.32 I heard Jun 23 19:50:49 the n8xx kernels and before had some closed parts people told me Jun 23 19:51:14 not in kernel, not for fremantle Jun 23 19:51:34 they managed to implement all the blobs in userland Jun 23 19:51:34 not freemantle but before Jun 23 19:51:47 cehteh: 2.6.32 is good version Jun 23 19:51:59 and there are quite a few blobs still Jun 23 19:52:03 .28 was good too Jun 23 19:52:16 but dated :) as .32 will be when the device comes out Jun 23 19:52:34 * DocScrutinizer adores dated kernels Jun 23 19:52:49 well doesnt it use btrfs? Jun 23 19:52:58 btrfs isnt even in 3.0 stable Jun 23 19:52:58 cehteh: older kernels tend to be faster Jun 23 19:52:59 you finally got to know each sysfs path by heart, etc etc Jun 23 19:53:53 a properly maintaned aged kernel is way better than bleeding edge Jun 23 19:53:59 yes Jun 23 19:54:18 but .. well .. some things eventually improve in newer kernels Jun 23 19:54:25 yep Jun 23 19:54:50 rarely seen anything *essetial* though, esp nothing that couldn't get backported Jun 23 19:54:51 and with this devices and nokias politics there is no much an kernel upgrade path Jun 23 19:55:17 backporting things over about 10 kernel versions would be pita Jun 23 19:55:46 doesn't matter. What really sucks is when your userland blows chunks on the new stuff Jun 23 19:55:54 yes Jun 23 19:56:27 I know boxes that happily run 4 year old kernels Jun 23 19:56:35 my server :P Jun 23 19:56:50 * cehteh runs Jun 23 19:57:38 it's not like kernels actually bitrot, you just have to keep them up to date with current threats Jun 23 19:57:45 and patches to fix those Jun 23 19:59:04 you're starting to be screwed when you want to install acme-app-Vtomorow++ which uses all that ultra new cute stuff Jun 23 19:59:51 hello Jun 23 20:00:05 i need your help Jun 23 20:00:51 i am connect to my N900 via ssh from ubuntu pc Jun 23 20:01:07 and i would like save my ohone contact Jun 23 20:01:26 but i don t know where is repertory or file Jun 23 20:01:37 can you help me Jun 23 20:01:45 export to vcard Jun 23 20:01:45 make backup Jun 23 20:02:18 contacts app GUI -> menu -> export Jun 23 20:02:21 yes but i would like keep on the pc Jun 23 20:02:37 ok i try thanks Jun 23 20:02:47 dunno how to export to vcard via PC, maybe use vnc? ;-D Jun 23 20:03:57 of course you also can copy the contacts.db file, but that's hard to read out on your PC I guess Jun 23 20:04:10 you could copy it back any time though Jun 23 20:04:34 what is the format of the file? Jun 23 20:04:42 sqlite? Jun 23 20:05:26 jacekowski: ok, I tested it. it is really good port ! Jun 23 20:05:31 berkley afaik Jun 23 20:05:35 jacekowski: sad you discontinued it Jun 23 20:05:49 jacekowski: because it works great, fast scroll, youtube, javascript, etc... Jun 23 20:06:38 ok i have save my contact in file name.vcf Jun 23 20:06:42 kpoman: opera is better Jun 23 20:07:02 how can you reinstall after Jun 23 20:07:05 on N900 Jun 23 20:08:16 import :-) Jun 23 20:08:40 i haven't import choice in menu Jun 23 20:09:29 ok sorry i find it Jun 23 20:09:31 thanhs Jun 23 20:09:35 get contacts Jun 23 20:09:35 thanks Jun 23 20:09:39 ok Jun 23 20:09:47 thanks doc Jun 23 20:09:52 yw Jun 23 20:10:31 hmhm, is tmo not supposed to have https? Jun 23 20:10:34 jacekowski: do you have youtube wokring on it ? Jun 23 20:10:48 opera I meant Jun 23 20:10:48 kpoman: i don't watch youtube Jun 23 20:10:56 jacekowski: oh ok Jun 23 20:11:09 not on phone Jun 23 20:11:14 it takes too long to load Jun 23 20:11:29 and if i'm in wifi range i can use laptop Jun 23 20:13:17 jacekowski: ok, it complains about unsupported rtsp Jun 23 20:13:32 Corsac: are you MAD? this crap transmitted on a secured connection? WTF? Jun 23 20:13:45 ;-D Jun 23 20:14:29 Corsac: maemo.org has ssl, tmo doesnt Jun 23 20:15:55 that said, ssl on maemo.org's hard to use because whoever set midgard up set everything with hard links Jun 23 20:17:02 Soooo Jun 23 20:17:06 Anything I missed/ Jun 23 20:17:07 ? Jun 23 20:17:12 nid0: crap Jun 23 20:18:21 not enough's ssl secured tbh Jun 23 20:26:40 woo Jun 23 20:26:52 Just came from Linkin Park concert in Moscow :) Jun 23 20:30:10 heya wazd Jun 23 20:31:10 X-Fade: lardman|gone : Just realised the http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS doesn't talk *at all* about the build plans/targets. Jun 23 20:32:59 hello Jun 23 20:33:06 i come back Jun 23 20:33:23 where are location of video Jun 23 20:33:24 Jaffa: Obviously needs some more info. Jun 23 20:33:45 X-Fade: Aye. Was it covered yesterday? If not, I'll try and flesh it out tonight Jun 23 20:34:03 video that i take with n900 Jun 23 20:34:41 i would like save it Jun 23 20:38:52 nid0: use noscript and force ssl Jun 23 20:39:53 do you know where is the repertory of video on N900 Jun 23 20:40:26 i would like to save it via ssh Jun 23 20:40:34 on my pc Jun 23 20:40:41 under ubuntu Jun 23 20:42:37 ric31: in /home/user/MyDocs Jun 23 20:45:19 i can find video on it Jun 23 20:45:30 it s strange Jun 23 20:45:42 and i can see via the appli Jun 23 20:47:52 Fun,pure fun: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26921/ Jun 23 20:56:55 ric31: it's in a hidden folder Jun 23 20:57:03 ric31: ls -la /home/user/MyDocs Jun 23 20:57:12 it's like... /home/user/MyDocs/.video/ Jun 23 20:57:55 jacekowski: there's opera for n900 now? Jun 23 20:59:48 rm_work: yes Jun 23 20:59:56 rm_work: for like a year or so Jun 23 21:00:07 lol Jun 23 21:00:12 how did I not know that? Jun 23 21:00:31 i was a huge fan of opera before, and was very disappointed when it went away Jun 23 21:00:31 http://get.opera.com/pub/.custom/campaign/labs/maemo/20100510/opera.install Jun 23 21:00:32 errr Jun 23 21:00:45 k Jun 23 21:00:46 cool Jun 23 21:01:02 ok, so, old, but works great i assume? :P Jun 23 21:01:06 yes Jun 23 21:01:52 02 Jun 23 21:03:50 rm_work> thanks there is only one video on/home/user/MyDocs/.video Jun 23 21:04:32 and not my all video i take Jun 23 21:04:42 ric31: do you have a microSD card? Jun 23 21:04:52 ric31: it will often default to the microSD card Jun 23 21:05:24 in which case, I am not 100% sure where it goes on there, but a quick browse (and make sure to check for hidden folders) should help Jun 23 21:06:13 no Jun 23 21:06:38 i see there is a lot file bebin by dot Jun 23 21:06:56 begin Jun 23 21:07:11 i am looking in Jun 23 21:07:52 after all the fuss about the n9 score on html5test.com, i just realised my n900 beats it anyway :) Jun 23 21:08:04 lol what piggz? Jun 23 21:08:38 rm_work: 262 + 9 bonus (meego 1.2 ce with firefox ;) Jun 23 21:09:11 piggz: but what fuss about n9 score? Jun 23 21:09:57 wazd: Funny side topic... I just came from here.... http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2011/06/21/photos-u2-preparations-in-baltimore.html Jun 23 21:10:09 wazd: Specifically went straight from that job to my full time work Jun 23 21:10:11 ppl saying it is a good score i think Jun 23 21:10:13 ;) Jun 23 21:10:29 piggz: ah i see it, 257 + 14? Jun 23 21:10:49 y Jun 23 21:10:52 yeah that is pretty good for mobile browsers :P but yeah. n900 was just fine there too Jun 23 21:12:04 jacekowski: wow this seems slick. man, i always loved opera :P Jun 23 21:13:35 maemo scores 271+9 on html5test.com nice :) Jun 23 21:13:50 firefox on maemo Jun 23 21:14:03 does anyone use wifi-switcher? Jun 23 21:15:06 hmm 10 minutes in a toaster, and the n900 still turns on amazingly, but sadly no improvement in cell problems, so I now have an internet tablet it seems. I don't think I should try longer than 10 minutes though as I am already beginning to smell things I shouldn't be I don't think Jun 23 21:15:29 Seablade, wut? Jun 23 21:16:05 Venemo: Ongoing report from earlier, short version I am having communications error, reboot device, etc. that means I can't talk to cellular networks with my n900 anymore Jun 23 21:16:30 Venemo: Been trying to reflow the solder with a toaster, but if it has happened there hasn't been any difference Jun 23 21:16:36 Seablade, why don't you just take it to warranty repair? Jun 23 21:16:55 how do you do to backup video from n900 to pc linux Jun 23 21:16:57 then he'll get an n8 back... Jun 23 21:17:04 Venemo: Because I am in the US, bought one of the first batches, and due to a 1 year warranty over here it is well out of warranty Jun 23 21:17:22 Seablade, ah. unlucky :( Jun 23 21:18:07 Venemo, someone said they're out of spare parts and now send ppl other phones back like n8.s Jun 23 21:18:18 LoooL Jun 23 21:18:28 what the heck should I do with an N8? Jun 23 21:18:34 right :) Jun 23 21:18:40 N8 is not a mobile computer Jun 23 21:19:18 Venemo, it is a mobile Qt platform though Jun 23 21:19:24 runs your app well? Jun 23 21:19:51 there is something wrong with your qt if it does not want to work there? Jun 23 21:20:07 oh Venemo, it is also multitouch Jun 23 21:20:12 yes, my app runs on the N8 in a not-so-bad manner Jun 23 21:20:35 however, the philosophy of the N900 feels closer to my heart than the philosophy of the N8 Jun 23 21:21:07 good stuff Jun 23 21:21:58 is maemo6 on the N9 also such a nice integrated SIP/jabber phone btw? Jun 23 21:22:30 mer_ge, yes as far as I saw it Jun 23 21:23:58 is there _any_ other phone out there except of maemos that do that? me doubting Jun 23 21:27:47 yes it integrates shit Jun 23 21:28:09 nice! that's SO underrated imo Jun 23 21:28:41 Would be nice if it integrated into Google's services a bit better IMO, but that isn't to say I dislike the integration that is in the n900 Jun 23 21:29:04 what about fmtx on n9? Jun 23 21:29:07 any info on that Jun 23 21:29:10 is it there or not? Jun 23 21:29:17 pretty likely not Jun 23 21:29:41 Nokians have said h/w is on the wifi/BT chip as on N900 Jun 23 21:29:45 I thought I saw the hardware is there, but like Maemo5 the software is not, but I could easily be passing along false information Jun 23 21:29:48 I think there is one, but I'm not sure Jun 23 21:29:51 But whether or not you can make it work is up to external softwar Jun 23 21:30:12 Jaffa: that's not a problem Jun 23 21:30:22 Jaffa: is it same chip? Jun 23 21:30:25 Jaffa: or something else? Jun 23 21:30:35 and NDAs will be a problem? Jun 23 21:30:49 jacekowski: I *think* I read same chip; but ICBW Jun 23 21:31:05 and when is it going to be released? Jun 23 21:31:13 Seablade: It's not only the chip Jun 23 21:31:38 Seablade: It will also depend on if the antenna matching components are there. If it's not - there is no hope. Jun 23 21:31:58 oh - for tx - the antenna ratehr Jun 23 21:32:05 well, if you only need 10cm or so you only need piece of copper connected to chip Jun 23 21:32:06 SpeedEvil: Define antenna matching components for me...? Jun 23 21:32:36 Seablade: few inductors and few capacitors Jun 23 21:32:44 to make transmission happen Jun 23 21:33:30 jacekowski: Oh ok, so the RF transmission front end that connects to the antenna itself, yes I would consider that to be a necessary part of the hardware Jun 23 21:34:21 but 1G of ram is amazing Jun 23 21:34:27 and 64G of flash Jun 23 21:34:39 Of course I consider the FMTX nice and use it often in my car, I am not personally on the line of it needs to be there, I owuld be happy using A2DP as well Jun 23 21:34:53 Seablade: my radio can't do a2dp Jun 23 21:35:02 jacekowski: Neither can mine Jun 23 21:35:05 exactly Jun 23 21:35:25 jacekowski: Thus why I use FMTX already on my n900, but worst case scneario I owuld hook a bluetooth receiver up to it Jun 23 21:35:51 bt uses more power Jun 23 21:36:05 jacekowski: Then again playing with sound is my passion and my life. I make my living from it. I can understand that not everyone wants to do the same Jun 23 21:36:18 Oooh, I want my next car radio to have Bluetooth & NFC :) Jun 23 21:36:36 There's that Bluetooth standard which is better audio quality than A2DP; which it seems the N9 supports Jun 23 21:36:38 bye-bye Jun 23 21:36:45 anyone ever tried to transfer data with FMTX? AX.25 or so? :) Jun 23 21:36:58 jacekowski: Possibly yes, not something I Know off hand, but I am not to worried about the power differential myself, worst case just get a USB car charger Jun 23 21:37:21 Jaffa: I would be curious on both standards, got links to info on them? Jun 23 21:37:22 and palm pre style charging Jun 23 21:37:25 contactless Jun 23 21:38:08 Jaffa: I have often wondered what A2DP actually supported, obviously not something I use a whole lot, even given my profession as it isn't reliable enough for me to use professionally Jun 23 21:38:11 and for fast charge put it on our induction stove :P Jun 23 21:38:51 compatibility with that wouldn't be bad feature Jun 23 21:39:24 Seablade: http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/21/nokia-steps-it-up-a-gear-with-new-accessories/ - scroll down to see the MD-310 Jun 23 21:39:31 Seablade: APT-X is the alternative Jun 23 21:39:56 [offtopic] I think soon there'd be no need to integrate Gtalk anymore at all as it becomes standard jabber-jingle http://www.zool.dk/?p=118 Jun 23 21:40:10 jacekowski: the induction stove? Jun 23 21:40:16 i wont try it :) Jun 23 21:40:38 Jaffa: Yea, I couldn't care less about their hardware, it is almost a guarantee it won't be what I want, looking up the protocol now Jun 23 21:40:42 i mean pumping 3.5KW into the tiny device .. what can possibly go wrong? :) Jun 23 21:42:01 mer_ge: n9(00) might not be happy about that: http://blog.barisione.org/2011-06/broken-gtalk-calls Jun 23 21:42:38 petteri, mer_ge: the N9 is fine Jun 23 21:42:52 mer_ge: I still want for a google voice call to ring my n900, which I believe is outside of the standard Jingle specs from my experience, but haven't looked into it to much yet. All I Know is it doesn't work on the n900 currently:) Jun 23 21:42:58 barisione: nice to hear Jun 23 21:43:16 mer_ge: That should be, Google Voice Call forwarded to Google Talk, should ring my cell phone, it currently doesn't Jun 23 21:43:20 petteri: we already released and integrate the fix for Harmattan Jun 23 21:43:49 Seablade: how does google voice calls work exactly? Jun 23 21:44:08 barisione it's sip I think Jun 23 21:44:16 mer_ge: No Jun 23 21:44:24 k Jun 23 21:44:25 Google Voice itself does not make calls. It only forwards calls Jun 23 21:44:58 But it can forward calls to Google Talk, which can make and receive calls via Jabber/Jingle. Yet for some reason on the n900 when doing this it won't ring the n900 Jun 23 21:45:15 jabber != sip Jun 23 21:45:27 Jaffa: my car has A2DP built in, it is awesome Jun 23 21:45:39 I work on gabble (so XMPP for both GTalk and Facebook), but others maintains the call bits Jun 23 21:45:40 *? Jun 23 21:45:46 so I don't know much about it :) Jun 23 21:45:50 Google Voice can also forward calls to any landline which is how I am currently using it, forwarding to a skype number which I get on my n900 since it's cell phone doesn't work Jun 23 21:45:58 Jaffa: when I turn on my car it auto-pairs to n900 and does calls over the radio / builtin mic, and plays music otherwise :P Jun 23 21:46:08 never take my phone out of my pocket Jun 23 21:46:39 rm_work, we don't have a problem with bluetooth cars Jun 23 21:46:45 lol yeah Jun 23 21:46:53 its the fact you wear stocking and suspenders to "turn your car on" Jun 23 21:47:12 rofl Jun 23 21:47:19 Jaffa: Based off what I am seeing on APT-X it is still unsuitable for professional uses, despite what Wikipedia may say:) But that being said I would still want to see side by side between it and A2DP to see the difference, if they are even comparable Jun 23 21:48:17 I don't really get it. Google changed the jingle standard now? Will this affect any non-google calls in any way? Jun 23 21:49:11 mer_ge: i'm pretty sure that google did something non-standard before, and are now moving to using jingle. is that right? Jun 23 21:49:13 mer_ge: Google didn't change the Jingle standard, what Google is doing with Voice integration is either outside of the Jingle protocol extension, or is something not yet implemented by the n900 Jun 23 21:49:32 IIRC Google was involved in the development of Jingle but again this is something that I may be wrong on Jun 23 21:50:15 yes, google develped jingle but used their own dialekt of it Jun 23 21:50:52 now they seem to merge Jun 23 21:51:30 and I thought that'd resolve any remaining little issue there might be anywhere :) Jun 23 21:53:30 but I get confused by this issue. and I don't use google, but you can log in to your google account using a non-gtalk client as well. and make calls over jingle right? Jun 23 21:53:46 the client decided (I thought) Jun 23 21:54:30 mer_ge: Yes you can, thus why the n900 can make calls over google talk Jun 23 21:54:56 * Seablade -> out(FinishStageSet) Jun 23 21:57:06 thanks all! of what I read, everything seem to evolve nicely :) Jun 23 21:57:13 bye Jun 23 22:28:51 ugh, rootfs.lzo file structure is ODD. Jun 23 22:29:33 there's no ext4 header, it starts off immediately with the FS label Jun 23 22:30:39 ext4? are you sure n900 even knows that? Jun 23 22:32:10 Can anyone point me at n950 source? Secifically kernel - but any is handy Jun 23 22:34:50 http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/k/kernel/ Jun 23 22:34:52 SpeedEvil, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/k/kernel/ I guess Jun 23 22:35:00 Thanks! Jun 23 22:35:00 heh Jun 23 22:35:06 nox- i'm working with the rootfs.lzo image from the N950 system Jun 23 22:35:09 And Human wins! Jun 23 22:35:10 :) Jun 23 22:35:15 nokia has it on download ;) Jun 23 22:35:22 oh ok :) Jun 23 22:35:46 also, i've found the EXT4 header at 18E, tried to mount it at offset 398, no dice Jun 23 22:35:59 "53 EF" Jun 23 22:36:02 Hurrian: it may be ubifs Jun 23 22:36:13 Hurrian: i wouldn't expect them to change it Jun 23 22:36:49 i will shoot somebody if they actually strapped an ext4 fs on top of ubi Jun 23 22:37:20 then again, you may be right Jun 23 22:37:20 are you sure it's ext4 header Jun 23 22:37:27 not something looking like ext4? Jun 23 22:37:27 the "ext4" header comes after FS label Jun 23 22:37:49 i'm comparing an ext4 sparse file to the rootfs.lzo image Jun 23 22:38:01 i would shoot them just for using ext4 on mobile device Jun 23 22:38:21 Hurrian: Sorry - not awake - how do I go from deb to source? Jun 23 22:38:28 uhh, wait Jun 23 22:38:42 SpeedEvil: apt-get source packagename Jun 23 22:39:05 I expect ext4 for /home (but vfat for the user documents section) Jun 23 22:41:03 andre__: that's another whole load of bullshit Jun 23 22:41:06 thanks Jun 23 22:41:19 vfat is not fit for *anything* nowadays Jun 23 22:41:36 Is there a onenand, or is it one big eMMC? Jun 23 22:41:48 s/onenand/POP nand/ Jun 23 22:41:49 SpeedEvil meant: Is there a POP nand, or is it one big eMMC? Jun 23 22:42:29 kerio, sure, let's just ignore the 96% Windows users out there that want to copy Music onto the device Jun 23 22:43:14 you mean let's ignore the 4 windows users who will buy the n9 by mistake? Jun 23 22:43:39 andre__: you can always do it in MTP mode Jun 23 22:43:56 * kerio ponders about vfat emulation Jun 23 22:44:59 kerio: i thought about that Jun 23 22:45:04 jacekowski: also for non-media files? always thought that it was a windows media player thingy, but haven't used windows for years so no idea Jun 23 22:45:12 would that work? Jun 23 22:45:17 kerio: yes Jun 23 22:45:22 kerio: complicated though Jun 23 22:45:41 andre__: no Jun 23 22:45:58 andre__: you can use MTP to transfer any kind of files Jun 23 22:45:59 you'd still need to umount the fs from meego though Jun 23 22:46:01 ah Jun 23 22:46:46 no Jun 23 22:46:51 that's the thing with mtp Jun 23 22:46:59 it's more like scp sort of thing Jun 23 22:47:06 just over usb and called differently Jun 23 22:47:11 and implementd slightly differently Jun 23 22:47:34 so, not like scp Jun 23 22:52:53 uuuugh, i wish we can port MTP to maemo 5 Jun 23 22:53:04 this is the way nokia should've done it a LONG time ago Jun 24 00:48:41 Hi all Jun 24 00:48:55 only flashing rootfs and kernel i'll be at PR 1.3 ? Jun 24 00:50:29 depends on what you are flashing it? with Jun 24 00:52:22 if i only flashed they,and i flash everything now again,i'll brick it? Jun 24 00:54:13 not sure if that made sense Jun 24 00:54:23 is english your first language? Jun 24 00:54:56 no,sorry :( Jun 24 00:55:29 maybe ask if someone here speaks your language Jun 24 00:55:36 341 people Jun 24 00:55:40 good chances man Jun 24 00:56:29 I'm Brazillian..some one speaking Portuguese?? Jun 24 00:56:41 c2pLaY: btw,sorry my bad english :( Jun 24 00:56:47 its ok Jun 24 00:56:49 it's ok Jun 24 00:56:54 though I couldn't understand either Jun 24 00:56:59 hope someone would take pitty on me if i was in brazil Jun 24 00:57:09 ;) Jun 24 00:57:12 pity Jun 24 00:57:16 umm yeah Jun 24 00:57:17 typo Jun 24 00:57:23 what do you know Jun 24 00:57:25 heh Jun 24 00:57:26 i rarely use that word Jun 24 00:57:28 ;) Jun 24 00:57:50 angelox|laptop why would you want to flash your phone? Jun 24 00:58:28 vc explcalo in portugus Jun 24 00:58:32 and I'd understand Jun 24 00:59:28 some days ago my phone wasn't booting because i flashed a wrong kernel,i needed to flash only kernel and rootfs(was from pr 1.3) and it worked,and now i'd like to know if my phone is in pr 1.3 now...it was pr 1.2 Jun 24 00:59:38 please check if you can understand Jun 24 00:59:59 well go to Settings -> About product and what version does it say? Jun 24 01:00:17 i think he's saying it won't post Jun 24 01:00:22 so he can't check Jun 24 01:00:27 let me check Jun 24 01:00:31 oh Jun 24 01:00:38 you thought his phone didn't boot? :) Jun 24 01:00:47 well that's what he said... Jun 24 01:00:48 lol Jun 24 01:00:56 he confused "only" with "just" Jun 24 01:00:58 that's all Jun 24 01:01:06 "I needed to flash just the kernel and rootfs..." Jun 24 01:01:19 oi Jun 24 01:01:20 because in portuguese, only and just is the same word Jun 24 01:01:24 ARE Jun 24 01:02:18 sorry,i forgot only word :\ but i know what that means Jun 24 01:02:52 well my phone says 20.2010.36-2 but I have CSSU installed so I'm not sure what was PR1.3 version number but it's something very similar Jun 24 01:02:59 ouch... Version: unknown Jun 24 01:03:03 really? Jun 24 01:03:13 yes! (LOL) let me reboot Jun 24 01:03:19 Sc0rpius, PR1.3 is exactly that Jun 24 01:03:44 the CSSU doesn't change that cause the ovi store is epic and doesn't handle other versions Jun 24 01:03:51 haha Jun 24 01:03:54 didn't know that Jun 24 01:04:21 I never heard of a case where the version is unknown Jun 24 01:04:36 sometimes it gets unset Jun 24 01:04:54 the CSSU doesn't change that cause the ovi store is epic and doesn't handle other versions Jun 24 01:04:56 wat Jun 24 01:05:12 osso-product-info says unknown too Jun 24 01:05:18 if we change the version number the ovi store would break Jun 24 01:05:33 why...? Jun 24 01:05:37 angelox|laptop, dpkg -l mp-fremantle-* Jun 24 01:05:48 cause the store's retarded Jun 24 01:06:07 indeed, if that is true... Jun 24 01:06:10 if he's not in PR1.2 and the version is unset the upgrade popup will never appear, right? Jun 24 01:06:34 MohammadAG: 20.2010.36-2 Jun 24 01:06:35 if the package isn't present yes Jun 24 01:06:41 angelox|laptop, latest version Jun 24 01:07:03 feel free to run /var/lib/dpkg/info/mp-fremantle-generic-pr.postinst Jun 24 01:07:15 that will fix his problems? Jun 24 01:07:26 osso-product-info -s OSSO_VERSION="RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR0" 2> /dev/null || exit 0 Jun 24 01:07:45 what's that || exit 0 for Jun 24 01:07:50 :) Jun 24 01:07:51 MohammadAG: should i flash whole my firmware image to don't get any problem? Jun 24 01:07:57 idk, it's the postinst not me :P Jun 24 01:08:00 no Jun 24 01:08:02 angelox|laptop, no Jun 24 01:08:03 no Jun 24 01:08:15 just run the post install script like MohammadAG said Jun 24 01:08:28 Oh three "no"..ok i'll do it Jun 24 01:08:41 :_ Jun 24 01:08:53 :) * Jun 24 01:09:59 MohammadAG: i have only:/var/lib/dpkg/info/mp-fremantle-generic-pr.list Jun 24 01:11:08 osso-product-info -s OSSO_VERSION="RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR0" 2> /dev/null Jun 24 01:11:34 that's weird Jun 24 01:11:46 ok.. Jun 24 01:12:00 yeah just do that and your phone will be 100% ok Jun 24 01:12:20 and type it EXACTLY like that! Jun 24 01:12:24 sure about that? Jun 24 01:12:29 about what exactly? Jun 24 01:12:39 about it being OK Jun 24 01:12:42 i joint to irc to copy and paste on my n900 Jun 24 01:12:50 as it for some reason didn't do it right from the beginning Jun 24 01:12:50 no, but that's what all support IT guys say all the time Jun 24 01:13:09 you don't need to do that angelox|laptop Jun 24 01:13:15 it's better to SSH from your PC to your phone Jun 24 01:13:18 and then copy paste it there Jun 24 01:13:23 ah yes...i forgot that :) Jun 24 01:13:25 thank you Jun 24 01:14:15 FIQ|n900: ? Jun 24 01:14:29 nvm Jun 24 01:14:57 ok Jun 24 01:15:16 i didn't know the ctcp version,only ctcp time... Jun 24 01:19:31 thank you,worked Jun 24 01:22:23 :) Jun 24 01:25:56 * angelox|laptop liked the N900,but it didn't like me :( Jun 24 01:36:01 * angelox|laptop reboots Jun 24 02:35:44 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Jun 24 02:36:02 ~botsnack Jun 24 02:36:02 :), DocScrutinizer Jun 24 02:36:28 yay Jun 24 02:38:22 Is it possible to send text messages to a cell phone using my Nokia N900 if I don't have a SIM card? Jun 24 02:38:53 No. Jun 24 02:38:57 Well - yes Jun 24 02:39:06 If you use a web-text service of some form and wifi Jun 24 02:39:11 Or USB network Jun 24 02:39:11 :-) Jun 24 02:40:59 Thanks Jun 24 02:41:41 even some SIP providers allow that, but you'd need a SIP client that can send INFO messages then Jun 24 02:42:17 so for I only know of twinkle, and that's not running on maemo Jun 24 02:42:28 so far* **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 24 02:59:57 2011