**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 24 02:59:57 2011
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 24 03:19:19 2011

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 24 03:20:10 2011
Jun 24 03:25:19 <SpeedEvil> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/439717632-3-6-inch-dual-sim-cards-Slider-and-QWERT-keyboard-input-FM-radio-N950-mobile-phone-wholesalers.html
Jun 24 03:26:15 <ds3> Is that a Nokla product?
Jun 24 03:26:24 <Seablade> didn't take long for chinese knockoffs
Jun 24 03:26:26 <SpeedEvil> Well - I'll let you guess on that one.
Jun 24 03:26:35 <bindi> fake
Jun 24 03:27:34 <Seablade> Well considering it has pics of at least 2 different phones listed, yea Ill go with fake trying to rip you off;)
Jun 24 03:27:35 <wmarone_> nah, not a Nokla
Jun 24 03:27:40 <Hurrian> surprising that chinese symbian knockoffs work as good as the real symbian
Jun 24 03:27:45 <wmarone_> it's quite clearly spelled "Nokia"
Jun 24 03:28:14 <wmarone_> hehe
Jun 24 03:28:19 <wmarone_> with a DROID 2 knockoff design
Jun 24 03:38:26 <DocScrutinizer> moo
Jun 24 03:40:57 <Hurrian> moo
Jun 24 03:41:15 <Hurrian> Doc: heard of anyone unpacking that M6 root filesystem?
Jun 24 03:45:10 <Hurrian> hmm, i don't think rootfs.lzo is a ubifs dump a la m5 root
Jun 24 04:02:01 <DocScrutinizer> Hurrian: not yet, other than on device ;-)
Jun 24 04:04:26 <DocScrutinizer> wmarone_: are you sure about the spelling? seen several Nokla phones ;-P
Jun 24 04:04:53 <Hurrian> Doc: this lzo file sure is odd
Jun 24 04:05:26 <Hurrian> after forcibly adding the magic i get header corrupted
Jun 24 04:05:36 <Hurrian> mmm, let's try prepending the magic instead
Jun 24 04:09:25 <Termana> good morning
Jun 24 04:09:30 <opdf2> is it 1gb physical ram on n9?
Jun 24 04:09:43 <Termana> opdf2, AFAIK yes
Jun 24 04:10:14 <opdf2> meego multitask looks awesome
Jun 24 04:11:10 <dymaxion> is it me or am I spending far too much time hunting down every N9 teaser video and watching them over and over again! How sad! :-)
Jun 24 04:13:30 <opdf2> i really hope there's room for 4 great OSes
Jun 24 04:14:02 <opdf2> dymaxion:  you saw gsmarena's first look?
Jun 24 04:14:40 <dymaxion> yep... I can't wait to get one.. hopefully in HK they will bring em out early... I'll be straight down the Nokia store to play :-)
Jun 24 04:15:05 <opdf2> too bad they closed Nokia flagships stores in usa
Jun 24 04:15:12 <dymaxion> really.. that's a shame... 
Jun 24 04:15:20 <dymaxion> in Asia they still have very strong brand
Jun 24 04:16:15 <dymaxion> it's a shame ppl have been moving to HTC etc... my other half has a Sony Experia arc, and I've got a temporary (HTC Aria) broken... poor call quality , poor build..
Jun 24 04:16:57 <dymaxion> after a while the OS gets completely boring and cameras always disappoint...   bring on the N9...  !   (Unfortuantely my N8 died after 4 months)
Jun 24 04:18:22 <dymaxion> dead N8 <--- was my own fault... trying to use Maps, lost on a mountain during a tropical rainstorm which was more like a power-shower! :-)
Jun 24 04:18:34 <opdf2> loving the pentaband umts
Jun 24 04:18:48 <opdf2> need to see more pentaband devices
Jun 24 04:18:56 <dymaxion> yep... I get frustrated that Nokia don't market that aspect
Jun 24 04:19:35 <dymaxion> in fact they are rubbish at marketing their best features...   if only they have Jobs' hypnotic presentations... 
Jun 24 04:20:20 <dymaxion> waching marko Ahtisaari's presentation was a bit painful... so many long pauses, dead pan face etc.
Jun 24 04:21:58 <opdf2> yeah Apple's foray into physical retail store space is astounding
Jun 24 04:22:13 <opdf2> something Sony and Nokia have tried and failed in america
Jun 24 04:22:30 <opdf2> Nokia deserves better marketing soo badly
Jun 24 04:22:42 <dymaxion> would it be fair to say there's a bit of "home" support because Apple is US company?
Jun 24 04:23:08 <opdf2> yes
Jun 24 04:23:46 <opdf2> its hard to change the usa's state of mind on Nokia.. the brand is recognized as cheap in usa
Jun 24 04:24:01 <dymaxion> I think the US mentality is very different from Europe... I'm from UK originally, and we find American marketing lacking subtlety, and too many superlatives on matters of to little substance
Jun 24 04:24:50 <opdf2> americans are easily subdued by marketing tricks
Jun 24 04:25:04 <dymaxion> and the reason is that US carriers have always controlled Nokia, not allowing their top phones on the market etc unless on punitive contact terms for Nokia..  I find it strange that ppl in the USA don't realise how far behind (mobile networks) they are vs rest of Europe/Asia
Jun 24 04:25:18 <dymaxion> you seem to be immune! :-)
Jun 24 04:26:00 <Hurrian> lzop: rootfs.lzo: you need a newer version of lzop
Jun 24 04:26:05 <Hurrian> uuuuuuuuuugh
Jun 24 04:26:59 <opdf2> unfortunately i dont see N9 succeeding in usa unless subsidized
Jun 24 04:28:05 <opdf2> jeez even then, i dont think anyone can break iphone's hypnotic powers
Jun 24 04:29:00 <opdf2> only major carriers that carry the iphone can survive in usa
Jun 24 04:29:16 <Hurrian> why do people love the iphone?
Jun 24 04:29:16 <dymaxion> yes it drives me mad... ppl using the iphone camera and thinking it's the best thing on the planet, or wondering why reception is bad and blaming the network, but I stand next to them with my N8 and no problem... etc.
Jun 24 04:29:27 <opdf2> =(((
Jun 24 04:29:54 <Hurrian> it's extremely overpriced, the camera is the shittiest 5MP i've ever seen, battery life is meh, and the screen has terrible viewing angles
Jun 24 04:30:03 <dymaxion> then I see low light photos on the iphone... and it's rubbish... i have done a lot of photos on my other half's Experia Arc... again worlds apart...    hypnotised :-(
Jun 24 04:30:23 <opdf2> majority of people don't care about all that
Jun 24 04:30:37 <dymaxion> yes viewing angles... ppl would care if they realised!  
Jun 24 04:30:51 <dymaxion> they get annoyed and think it's normal... 
Jun 24 04:31:18 <opdf2> ios is monkey easy to use, smooth, streamlined experience...and the hardware is a fashion accessory
Jun 24 04:31:38 <opdf2> + marketing is no fail
Jun 24 04:31:44 <dymaxion> I wonder about the software stack on N9 though.. whether meego allows deep linking between apps as Mango has... I think inter-woven apps is key to a functional OS
Jun 24 04:32:18 <opdf2> mango is great too... i dont want to see duopoly os
Jun 24 04:32:31 <Hurrian> reminds me of the iFruitphone in GTA IV: no buttons, no reception, no storage capacity, all ego
Jun 24 04:32:44 <Hurrian> actually, i cant believe they predicted "no reception" right
Jun 24 04:32:58 <dymaxion> also iOS clever lock in....    proprietary connectors...  !    my mates have spend hundreds of pounds on accessories... docks, speakers etc.. don't want to move away from iOS cos that will all be wasted
Jun 24 04:33:36 <dymaxion> then charged to license use of the proprietary connectors... 
Jun 24 04:33:53 <Hurrian> herp da dee derp, i love laughing at people who bought expensive-ass Bose docks way back when and now on the iphone, they're "unauthorized accessories"
Jun 24 04:34:04 <Hurrian> does anyone still remember what a 3.5 is?
Jun 24 04:43:52 <Hurrian> lzop: rootfs.lzo: header corrupted (checksum error)
Jun 24 04:43:58 <Hurrian> rrrrrrraaaaaaage
Jun 24 06:06:48 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Jun 24 06:08:15 * SpeedEvil fails at lollery.
Jun 24 06:08:19 <SpeedEvil> Also sleep.
Jun 24 06:08:47 <DocScrutinizer> so sleep!
Jun 24 06:09:12 <SpeedEvil> Can't sleep, clowns will eat me.
Jun 24 06:09:21 <DocScrutinizer> while I did some updates to your new wikipage :-)
Jun 24 06:12:27 * DocScrutinizer wonders how long it will take til finally can get service of some 14 y o dude brings the shopping from supermarket, on a phonecall - here in friggin Germany
Jun 24 07:34:23 <khertan> Morning all !
Jun 24 08:02:39 <DocScrutinizer> ~moo
Jun 24 08:02:40 * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass
Jun 24 08:05:53 <dm8tbr> mood groaning
Jun 24 08:37:54 <DocScrutinizer> morning dm8tbr 
Jun 24 08:38:32 <DocScrutinizer> anybody else getting "java exception: nullpointer" for this probably interesting address?  https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/eas/GetApplicationAttachment.html?id=1462104
Jun 24 08:39:01 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, it says "You are not authorized to access this page"
Jun 24 08:39:04 <dm8tbr> 'you're not authorized...'
Jun 24 08:39:18 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, am I about to v& by the US feds?
Jun 24 08:39:22 <Termana> to be*
Jun 24 08:39:43 <Termana> shiiite, there's a white van outside
Jun 24 08:39:49 <dm8tbr> they'll want to make sure and nuke you from orbit
Jun 24 08:40:28 <DocScrutinizer> nonsense, these are the long-to-disclose parts of Nokia's FCC approval for N9(50?)
Jun 24 08:40:54 <DocScrutinizer> https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=339630&fcc_id=%27LJPRM-680%27
Jun 24 08:41:30 <DocScrutinizer>   external photos   	External Photos  	05/10/2011  	pdf  	06/24/2011 (<-- date-available)
Jun 24 08:42:08 <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: If I follow the link from the second URL I get a null pointer too now
Jun 24 08:43:04 <DocScrutinizer> so is it still yesterday in that par of USA where FCC resides?
Jun 24 08:43:32 <DocScrutinizer> my clock shows 2011-06-24 here
Jun 24 08:44:12 <dm8tbr> mh, by now it should be past midnight everywhere but alaska IIRC
Jun 24 08:44:21 <DocScrutinizer>   manual   	Users Manual  	05/10/2011  	pdf  	06/24/2011  >:-(
Jun 24 08:44:42 <dm8tbr> oh, also past midnight in alaska too
Jun 24 08:44:48 <dm8tbr> no excuses then
Jun 24 08:45:05 <DocScrutinizer> well, FCC never hurries or rushes things
Jun 24 08:45:57 <dm8tbr> prolly an official has to push some buttons and move some levers manually
Jun 24 08:46:15 <jonwil> bah, my code wont run
Jun 24 08:46:23 <jonwil> The binary just gives a segfault and I cant work out why
Jun 24 08:47:03 <DocScrutinizer> https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/eas/GetApplicationAttachment.html?id=1462101   Request for confidentiality   	Cover Letter(s)  >> Pursuant to Sections 0.457 (d) (l) (ii) and 0.459 of the Commission’s Rules, the Applicant hereby requests confidential treatment of some of the information accompanying this Application of FCC ID: LJPRM-680 and as outlined below: - - - Exhibit 4: Block Diagram Exhibit 5: Schematic Diagrams Exhibit 12: Theory of 
Jun 24 08:47:04 <DocScrutinizer> Operation / Description of Circuitry<<<  GRRRRRR >:-(
Jun 24 08:47:44 <Termana> Hmm, I can't even access that
Jun 24 08:47:57 <Termana> They all tell me I'm not authorised
Jun 24 08:48:04 <DocScrutinizer> seems direct links don't work
Jun 24 08:48:20 <DocScrutinizer> https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=339630&fcc_id='LJPRM-680'
Jun 24 08:48:39 <DocScrutinizer> try this
Jun 24 08:48:41 <jonwil> Anyone know how to tell why my binary might be segfaulting?
Jun 24 08:48:48 <jonwil> Its just basically an empty cpp file
Jun 24 08:49:23 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 24 08:49:36 <DocScrutinizer> wrong type of runtime libs
Jun 24 08:49:39 <DocScrutinizer> ?
Jun 24 08:50:05 <jonwil> well I am running the standard N900 install fully updated
Jun 24 08:51:38 <DocScrutinizer> arm ELF on x86?
Jun 24 08:51:55 <jonwil> ARM
Jun 24 08:52:03 <jonwil> this is an ARM ELF running on my N900
Jun 24 08:52:16 <DocScrutinizer> doublecheck
Jun 24 08:52:21 <jonwil> its definatly ARM
Jun 24 08:52:26 <jonwil> since gcc -v says its ARM
Jun 24 08:52:34 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Jun 24 08:52:40 <jonwil> and since scratchbox says "FREMANTLE_ARMEL"
Jun 24 08:52:46 <DocScrutinizer> I'd use file nevertheless
Jun 24 08:53:12 <DocScrutinizer> also strace should usually help a lot, no?
Jun 24 08:53:42 <dm8tbr> It's much more fun if you have a binary compiled for the wrong libc.
Jun 24 08:53:47 <DocScrutinizer> even gdb if nothing else
Jun 24 08:53:55 <dm8tbr> then you can try to run it and it will say 'File not found'
Jun 24 08:53:56 <jonwil> file says "ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
Jun 24 08:54:04 <DocScrutinizer> dm8tbr: that's what I meant
Jun 24 08:54:53 <jonwil> where do I get strace for the N900?
Jun 24 08:54:59 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: strace it
Jun 24 08:55:06 <DocScrutinizer> tools repo
Jun 24 08:56:13 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Debugging
Jun 24 08:57:22 <nid0> not enough's ssl secured tbh
Jun 24 08:57:23 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Installation
Jun 24 08:57:27 <nid0> oops
Jun 24 08:58:56 <jonwil> http://pastebin.com/w9YqtS5y
Jun 24 08:59:00 <jonwil> Thats what strace has to say
Jun 24 09:04:10 <jonwil> aha, I found it, somehow its transmitting as ascii
Jun 24 09:11:26 <DocScrutinizer> looks very strange
Jun 24 09:12:52 <MohammadAG> anyone doing Maemo 5 devel with Qt might find these classes interesting https://gitorious.org/maemo5-foss-lockscreen/enhanced-lockscreen/trees/master/backends
Jun 24 09:15:06 <lardman|gone> Jaffa: re build targets, yeah I noticed that
Jun 24 09:15:17 <lardman> morning all
Jun 24 09:19:02 <jonwil> I think I might have a solution to bug 8347...
Jun 24 09:19:03 <povbot> 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available
Jun 24 09:28:00 <Jaffa> lardman: I didn't get a chance to expand on it last night.
Jun 24 09:28:23 <Jaffa> lardman: Instead I was busy trying to build a Harmattan app for qgil to run :)
Jun 24 09:29:04 <lardman> Jaffa: no worries
Jun 24 09:29:48 <lardman> I'm going to try some coding this weekend, assuming I can set up the SDK off line
Jun 24 09:35:10 <MohammadAG> Harmattan SDK installer is an online installer
Jun 24 09:35:47 <jonwil> There are manual setup steps
Jun 24 09:37:21 <MohammadAG> where?
Jun 24 09:37:24 <Termana> There better be, otherwise I will rage
Jun 24 09:37:25 <Termana> :p
Jun 24 09:39:50 <RST38h> Yaahooo: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/kate-alholas-forum-nokia-blog/2011/06/23/nokia-meego-1.2-harmattan-qt-quick-components
Jun 24 09:42:20 <lardman> urgh, online, that's a pita
Jun 24 09:42:34 <lardman> it's Python though, so I guess I could download the components and do an offline install
Jun 24 09:42:50 <lardman> or I can curse TalkTalk for not getting on with my phone line + broadband
Jun 24 09:43:18 <jonwil> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Troubleshooting_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Installing_Harmattan_Platform_SDK_manually
Jun 24 09:43:24 <jonwil> That should be it
Jun 24 09:44:30 <Jaffa> RST38h: Fantastic news isn't it, on Qt Quick Components :-)
Jun 24 09:46:19 <jonwil> The only problem I had getting the Harmattan SDK going was that Gentoo is missing a package for scratchbox-devkit-hashutils-squeeze-sdk
Jun 24 09:47:51 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, thoughts on QML and Qt components?
Jun 24 09:48:13 <MohammadAG> before I start rewriting Sociality :p
Jun 24 09:49:53 <RST38h> Jaffa: It is
Jun 24 09:50:07 <RST38h> Jaffa: The whole thing has a sense of finality to it though
Jun 24 09:51:27 <lardman> thanks jonwil 
Jun 24 09:52:33 <RST38h> Meanwhile: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/24/nokias-android-flirtations-revealed/
Jun 24 09:53:46 * lardman heads off to Bristol for the day, see you all later
Jun 24 09:56:58 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: QML good. Qt Components - API looks good, but not tried using in anger yet.
Jun 24 09:59:45 <MohammadAG> so should I make the switch for Harmattan?
Jun 24 10:02:59 <MohammadAG> yay figured out how to restart X
Jun 24 10:03:53 <jonwil> I wish I could get this thing to properly debug libcsd-sms.so or libsms.so
Jun 24 10:08:20 <jonwil> if I could single step the code in libsms or libcsd-sms, I would have this licked no problems
Jun 24 10:12:42 <divan> Have anyone seen the Boost libraries build for Maemo?
Jun 24 10:15:28 <gri> Meegotouch applications by default have a home and back button. When using the "blanco" (n9) theme, the back button is hidden and the toolbar moves to bottom. Does the same behaviour also apply to the qml-components or do I manually have to find out whether I should place the toolbar on top or bottom and create/hide specific buttons?
Jun 24 10:19:11 <MohammadAG> I'm also interested in that
Jun 24 10:20:10 <mikkov> divan: in Extras, even multiple version
Jun 24 10:20:20 <mikkov> s
Jun 24 10:21:34 <khertan> MohammadAG: until you didn't have need for advanced text manipulation ... qml is not too bad
Jun 24 10:23:05 <khertan> MohammadAG: also be carreful to not load use qml native component for loading things. The user agent isn't properly set and so it s didn't work on 3G with many phone isp
Jun 24 10:23:36 <MohammadAG> khertan, you mean QWebView in QML?
Jun 24 10:23:51 <khertan> MohammadAG: http://gitorious.org/maenews <- works on wifi, not over 3G
Jun 24 10:24:53 <khertan> MohammadAG: qwebview, XmlListModel, and everything that made call to a QNetworkFactory
Jun 24 10:25:45 <MohammadAG> what if I use C++ for the backend and QML for the UI?
Jun 24 10:26:01 <khertan> MohammadAG: it ll be fix quickly, it s a well know bug
Jun 24 10:26:40 <khertan> MohammadAG: it ll be ok as you can set the useragent in the qnetworkfactory qnetworkrequest in c++
Jun 24 10:30:42 <gri> by the way: Is there a way that ListView etc. completely load the model instead of creating delegates while scrolling? (For scrollbar reasons)
Jun 24 10:32:25 <MohammadAG> gri, not sure but I think qmltube does it
Jun 24 10:33:50 <gri> MohammadAG: I'll take a look at that, not sure if it only creates a flickable and stacks the items or something like that
Jun 24 10:34:24 <jonwil> bah, I cant get this working
Jun 24 10:37:02 <jonwil> I cant get the debugger to stop on the function I want it to stop on
Jun 24 10:37:06 <jonwil> so I can see whats going on with this code
Jun 24 10:37:11 <jonwil> and what the numbers look like :(
Jun 24 10:55:53 <jonwil> bah I give up
Jun 24 10:56:11 <DocScrutinizer> (<jonwil> I think I might have a solution to bug 8347...) what? really?
Jun 24 10:56:13 <povbot> 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available
Jun 24 10:56:23 <jonwil> If I could just get the debugger to stop on sms_gsm_cb_routing_ntf I might be able to see whats going on
Jun 24 10:57:03 <jonwil> If I can debug the .asm for it I can verify my theories of how the data looks
Jun 24 10:57:15 <jonwil> and can see if in fact my potential fix idea is fesable
Jun 24 10:59:06 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, why doesn't gdb work?
Jun 24 10:59:56 <DocScrutinizer> It's supposed to stop at breakpoints you've set
Jun 24 11:00:13 <jonwil> The problem I have is that libcsd-sms.so (and hence libsms.so) is loaded dynamically
Jun 24 11:00:19 <jonwil> so its hard to get GDB to stop on it
Jun 24 11:00:21 <DocScrutinizer> of course I guess debugging .so is a bit more tricky
Jun 24 11:00:51 <DocScrutinizer> indeed, you'd need to debug the process that loads the .so
Jun 24 11:02:07 <jonwil> aha, I have an idea
Jun 24 11:02:39 <vi__> so do I, get some golf clubs and meet me on the roof in 20 minutes.
Jun 24 11:03:50 <DocScrutinizer> those not interested in golf can meet me in the beergarden down the street in 5 min
Jun 24 11:15:03 <jonwil> finally, I have what should be a breakpoint where I want it
Jun 24 11:23:35 <jonwil> ok, I think I know whats going on
Jun 24 11:38:14 <jonwil> Whats the correct command for apt-get to say "I dont care what version I have, re-download it anyway"?
Jun 24 11:38:35 <psycho_oreos> apt-get install --reinstall ?
Jun 24 11:38:45 <jonwil> thanks
Jun 24 11:38:47 <jonwil> thats what I needed
Jun 24 11:38:53 <psycho_oreos> nw
Jun 24 11:38:57 <jonwil> now I can be sure my libcsd-sms.so file isn't busted
Jun 24 11:45:17 <jonwil> ok, I now have a proper libsms.so with my one byte change in place
Jun 24 11:46:42 <jonwil> now I just need the tower to send me another CBSMS
Jun 24 11:51:12 <jonwil> ok, NOW the tower decides not to send me a CBSMS
Jun 24 12:05:52 <jonwil> one more CBSMS and I can verify that my fix is the right solution at this point
Jun 24 12:10:33 <jonwil> Thankyou to nokia for harmattanbeta\libsms0_i386.deb for letting me see how the CBS code works on harmattan and that my fix for Maemo is on the right track :)
Jun 24 12:11:57 <jonwil> I just hope all this starting and stopping of CSD isn't putting my phone at risk somehow
Jun 24 12:15:10 <jonwil> If I could find out how to decode a CBSMS or the SMS alphabet, I could verify that what dbus just sent my dbus test program is correct
Jun 24 12:25:41 <edheldil> what fix are you working on?
Jun 24 12:25:53 <jonwil> bug 8347
Jun 24 12:25:54 <povbot> 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available
Jun 24 12:26:09 <jonwil> I have a dump of what should be a cell broadcast SMS
Jun 24 12:26:20 <jonwil> but I need some code or something to decode the actual message to see if its valid
Jun 24 12:26:30 <jonwil> i.e. if the data decodes to a valid looking string
Jun 24 12:45:00 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: have you looked at the osmocom or whatever the acronym mailing listsl?/
Jun 24 12:45:16 <jonwil> currently playing with some ofono code
Jun 24 12:48:49 * khertan currently playing ... hum not ... qml isn't funny ... 
Jun 24 12:48:58 * khertan trying to resolve that : http://lists.qt.nokia.com/pipermail/qt-qml/2011-June/002745.html
Jun 24 12:49:36 <jonwil> If this decodes properly, then all we need for cbsms to work should be a one-byte change to libsms.so plus a userspace daemon to wire up to the IncomingCBS signal
Jun 24 12:49:42 <jonwil> I mean userspace widget
Jun 24 12:49:46 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/ - and the coresponding 
Jun 24 12:49:50 <jonwil> which can do something with the incoming SMS
Jun 24 12:49:59 <vi__> :wq
Jun 24 12:50:01 <vi__> :Q
Jun 24 12:50:03 <vi__> :q!
Jun 24 12:50:09 <SpeedEvil> open source base station project
Jun 24 12:51:03 <jonwil> ok, ofono test code is correct
Jun 24 12:52:27 <jonwil> I see output of EastVicPark which seems to be correct
Jun 24 12:52:52 <jonwil> that reflects a suburb near where I live which I assume is the nearest Optus GSM tower
Jun 24 12:52:54 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 24 12:53:02 <jonwil> or the one that the phone has decided to talk to anyway
Jun 24 12:53:16 <SpeedEvil> You took a break from this?
Jun 24 12:53:24 <jonwil> yes I took a break for a while
Jun 24 12:54:02 <jonwil> it was only yesterday when I started playing with harmattan-beta-SDK and specifically the libsms0 i386 package that was included
Jun 24 12:54:10 <SpeedEvil> Ah
Jun 24 12:54:38 <SpeedEvil> Tried applying for harmattan dev?
Jun 24 12:55:06 <jonwil> nope, not interested in harmattan
Jun 24 12:55:10 <jonwil> interested in maemo
Jun 24 12:55:13 <jonwil> fremantle
Jun 24 12:55:15 <jonwil> since thats what my hardware runs
Jun 24 12:55:40 <jonwil> only value of harmattan-beta-sdk is info to help with understanding fremantle
Jun 24 12:55:43 <SpeedEvil> I was meaning for hw. 
Jun 24 12:55:47 <SpeedEvil> but yes.
Jun 24 12:55:56 <jonwil> I dont want or need new hardware :)
Jun 24 12:55:58 <SpeedEvil> Still keeping my n900 for a while.
Jun 24 12:56:13 <jonwil> of note is that harmattan SDK contains libbmeipc-dev package for harmattan version of bme/libbmeipc
Jun 24 12:56:53 <SpeedEvil> Wondering, as in principle your skillz might be useful for n950/n9/
Jun 24 12:57:23 <khertan> jonwil: think of it two time ... as many have problem with sim recognition in their n900
Jun 24 12:57:30 <xd13> is meego going to be community supported like maemo ?
Jun 24 12:57:36 <khertan> i doubt mine used all days will last for 1 more year
Jun 24 12:57:56 <SpeedEvil> xd13: Meego - yes.
Jun 24 12:57:57 <khertan> xd13: there is already a community edition for n900 :)
Jun 24 12:58:07 <SpeedEvil> xd13: Harmattan - that's another question
Jun 24 12:58:12 <xd13> huh
Jun 24 12:58:16 <xd13> isn't meego harmattan ?
Jun 24 12:58:23 <xd13> i thought it was one word
Jun 24 12:58:26 <khertan> there is more chance of a MeeGo community edition ... than maemo harmattan and fremantle
Jun 24 12:58:33 <SpeedEvil> Harmattan is meego in some ways.
Jun 24 12:58:41 <xd13> chances are i will b buying n9
Jun 24 12:58:47 <SpeedEvil> Harmattan forked from meego 12 monthsish ago
Jun 24 12:58:57 <khertan> SpeedEvil: oh ... really ?
Jun 24 12:59:03 <khertan> it s 1.2 ? 
Jun 24 12:59:04 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Jun 24 12:59:35 <SpeedEvil> It's a mash of meego + maemo components.
Jun 24 12:59:38 <khertan> hum ... oh it could be 1.2, as it was forked 12 month ago ... 
Jun 24 12:59:38 <khertan> :(
Jun 24 13:00:04 <chem|st> khertan: it is 1.2 upwards
Jun 24 13:00:31 <chem|st> after 1.3 they moved most devel people to it
Jun 24 13:00:37 <jonwil> From looking at the SDK, most of the lower level bits are still the closed-source Maemo bits
Jun 24 13:00:42 <chem|st> or was it 1.2 already?
Jun 24 13:00:43 <xd13> all i know is depending on the price of the n9 when it comes out i'll either wait for a price drop or purchase
Jun 24 13:00:45 <jonwil> cell stack for example
Jun 24 13:00:48 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: Indeed.
Jun 24 13:01:17 <jonwil> Give me an N9 with the keyboard and touchscreen of the N900 (stylus included) and sell it at retail and I will be VERY interested
Jun 24 13:01:39 <chem|st> jonwil: n950 devel is it
Jun 24 13:01:42 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: An open n9 with perhaps a reverse engineered security framework and android...
Jun 24 13:01:50 <SpeedEvil> alien-android
Jun 24 13:01:58 <xd13> n950 man they rly need 2 put that out for people 2 purchase
Jun 24 13:02:02 <Corsac> RE security framework? why so?
Jun 24 13:02:04 <chem|st> sadly we wont see any resistive screens any time soon again
Jun 24 13:02:04 <SpeedEvil> xd13: ++
Jun 24 13:02:12 <BCMM> the keyboard is important. the n900 is the smallest netbook i've ever seen; phone calls are a bonus
Jun 24 13:02:16 <khertan> jonwil: welcome to the club
Jun 24 13:02:26 <chem|st> BCMM: +1
Jun 24 13:02:28 <khertan> keyboard is essential
Jun 24 13:02:29 <jonwil> The N950 is good for dev but no good as a daily use phone
Jun 24 13:02:33 <SpeedEvil> Corsac: Well - I'm going off some of Doc's comments - I haven't investigated exactly how the scurity framework will work.
Jun 24 13:02:37 <khertan> jonwil: ?
Jun 24 13:02:38 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: ?
Jun 24 13:02:39 <xd13> i don't know, if n900 didn't have phone capability i would probably have an android phone right now and no n900
Jun 24 13:03:00 <xd13> jonwil wut y not?
Jun 24 13:03:00 <Corsac> Doc doesn't have a clue about security, the only thing he sees is DRM
Jun 24 13:03:00 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: I don't personally see why.
Jun 24 13:03:03 * khertan think that MeeGo community edition is better and better
Jun 24 13:03:18 <jonwil> I mean that because its not possible to replace, if you use it as a daily phone and its damaged, stolen or otherwise has problems, you are in trouble
Jun 24 13:03:20 * khertan will probably not switch to android ... due to poor python support
Jun 24 13:03:21 * SpeedEvil needs to try installing meego CE
Jun 24 13:03:40 <xd13> thats y u need to take care of ur phone
Jun 24 13:03:44 <jonwil> yeah I do take care
Jun 24 13:03:47 <xd13> i've had n900 since its rls in 2009
Jun 24 13:03:50 <jonwil> but things happen beyond my control
Jun 24 13:03:50 <SpeedEvil> khertan: I don't mean switching to android - I mean to be able to run externals
Jun 24 13:03:52 <SpeedEvil> jonwil:  Ah
Jun 24 13:03:53 <xd13> its in mint condition right now
Jun 24 13:04:06 <xd13> i never put a screen protector on it so a few slight marks but except for that perfect
Jun 24 13:04:09 <chem|st> khertan: python... what about uploading your personal data to google...
Jun 24 13:04:12 <SpeedEvil> xd13: You can take care of the phone, and it can still develop wierd faults.
Jun 24 13:04:18 <xd13> very true
Jun 24 13:04:22 <SpeedEvil> Also - the hinge looks damn fragile to me.
Jun 24 13:04:27 <xd13> but n900 has been like a godsend to me
Jun 24 13:04:30 <SpeedEvil> Can anyone comment on how the hinge feels?
Jun 24 13:04:40 <khertan> mine was dropped three from 1,5 meter on floor without impact :)
Jun 24 13:05:01 <xd13> as much as i love a keyboard i'm thinking if i could get used to on screen buttons...........i will miss the keyboardi think
Jun 24 13:05:08 * khertan think n900 will be the perfect device with more ram and larger screen
Jun 24 13:05:14 <khertan> exactly what is n950
Jun 24 13:05:21 <xd13> ya
Jun 24 13:05:24 <xd13> and better screen
Jun 24 13:05:36 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N950
Jun 24 13:05:37 <khertan> n900 screen is pretty good
Jun 24 13:05:41 <SpeedEvil> See that - for diffenences
Jun 24 13:06:33 <xd13> can someone explain to me tft and olded so i don't have 2 look it up, i rly should know it but i don't
Jun 24 13:06:38 <xd13> and which is better
Jun 24 13:06:41 <khertan> non-Zeiss f/2.2, 28mm focal kength, 10cm to inf. focus  <<< so this is why they abandon it !
Jun 24 13:06:46 <SpeedEvil> OLED is LED based
Jun 24 13:06:58 <SpeedEvil> khertan: ?
Jun 24 13:07:18 <khertan> SpeedEvil: speculation
Jun 24 13:07:21 <SpeedEvil> It emits light. It is more efficient at low amounts of white on screen
Jun 24 13:07:36 <SpeedEvil> khertan: Yes - I'm failing to parse that as a sentance with meaning
Jun 24 13:07:47 <xd13> is one better than the other or r there good/bad to both sides ?
Jun 24 13:07:52 <SpeedEvil> Due to the use of different display technologies, on the N9, developers  should avoid one pixel width fonts(?) and graphical objects with lines  one pixel wide. Also avoid the extensive use of bright colors,  especially white, when developing for OLED displays as this increases  the power consumption (typical for OLED displays).
Jun 24 13:08:15 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, 
Jun 24 13:09:02 <lcuk> single pixel use is tricky to use in a ux that involves scaling
Jun 24 13:09:13 <lcuk> and also smudges muchly
Jun 24 13:09:16 <lcuk> when you AA it
Jun 24 13:09:41 <SpeedEvil> It's not that simple.
Jun 24 13:09:53 <SpeedEvil> If you're doing AA, you need to know the hardware layout, and deal with it
Jun 24 13:10:02 <jonwil> ok, so should I post my Cell Broadcast SMS findings to the mailing list?
Jun 24 13:10:10 <SpeedEvil> Any arrangement that attempts to do AA without knowuing the pixel orientation and setup fails hard
Jun 24 13:10:19 <xd13> aa ?
Jun 24 13:10:27 <SpeedEvil> Anti-Aliasing
Jun 24 13:10:31 <xd13> ah
Jun 24 13:10:50 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, of course
Jun 24 13:10:56 <lcuk> but I did some testing earlier this yyear
Jun 24 13:10:57 <jonwil> ok, will post to the mailing list then
Jun 24 13:11:05 <lcuk> and was very vocal about the issues of lines
Jun 24 13:11:08 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: surely it's OK provided you don't attempt subpixel hinting?
Jun 24 13:11:23 <BCMM> (which is a recipe for ugly and headaches anyway)
Jun 24 13:11:42 <xd13> wut r the chances nokia is just teasing us about n950 ?
Jun 24 13:14:26 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, single thickness clock: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110313_051154.ciroclock.scr.png    then panned onto a "desktop" http://liqbase.net/liq.20110320_032054.liqbase-playground.scr.png    then the fremantle same http://liqbase.net/Screenshot-20110314-225450.png
Jun 24 13:14:54 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, unless realtime rendering of single thickness lines can be done everywhere their recommendation is right.
Jun 24 13:15:08 <SpeedEvil> They can't.
Jun 24 13:15:49 <SpeedEvil> I was meaning that 'AA' - can make thins much worse if you just try to pretend it's a simple triplet display.
Jun 24 13:17:31 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, http://alienryderflex.com/sub_pixel/
Jun 24 13:20:36 <SpeedEvil> err - no
Jun 24 13:20:56 <chem|st> we need to get people not to buy N9s...
Jun 24 13:20:59 <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_Matrix_Family
Jun 24 13:21:07 <BCMM> see, i don't know if my eyes are weird or what, but i see obvious coloured fringes in the subpixel example
Jun 24 13:21:12 <BCMM> and it's horrible
Jun 24 13:21:13 <xd13> what is nfc ?
Jun 24 13:21:23 <chem|st> near field communications
Jun 24 13:21:28 <xd13> which is ?
Jun 24 13:21:33 <chem|st> payment method
Jun 24 13:21:53 <xd13> oh wow that thing
Jun 24 13:22:07 <MohammadAG> saying it's a payment method isn't exactly right :p
Jun 24 13:22:19 <chem|st> its a chip that can do what the name sais, prolly used for payment and other things
Jun 24 13:22:24 <dm8tbr> nfc is rfid on steroids
Jun 24 13:22:31 <dm8tbr> and it's just that
Jun 24 13:22:35 <chem|st> MohammadAG: yeah but for users it is just that
Jun 24 13:22:50 <dm8tbr> if you want payments, that's a protocol on top of that involving smart-card chips etc
Jun 24 13:22:56 <chem|st> dm8tbr: growing muscels?
Jun 24 13:23:04 <xd13> don't need it
Jun 24 13:23:04 <chem|st> or breasts?
Jun 24 13:23:08 <MohammadAG> nope
Jun 24 13:23:15 <MohammadAG> the N9 can pair bluetooth devices with NFC
Jun 24 13:23:19 <MohammadAG> or send photos
Jun 24 13:23:22 <dm8tbr> chem|st: making it think it's stronger than it is ;)
Jun 24 13:23:27 <MohammadAG> devs can use it to send crap
Jun 24 13:23:49 <dm8tbr> does the n9 have nfc with secure element?
Jun 24 13:23:52 <chem|st> MohammadAG: yeah it is another BT only working on close range
Jun 24 13:24:19 <chem|st> nfc is said to do the same as BT was said...
Jun 24 13:24:37 <chem|st> but more secure in some way
Jun 24 13:24:56 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: BT can be read at a hundred meters easily
Jun 24 13:25:02 <SpeedEvil> this may not be desirable for NFC
Jun 24 13:25:55 <BCMM> any short-range thing can probably be done at longer ranges if you have a directional antenna and no respect for following spec
Jun 24 13:26:06 <SpeedEvil> NFC is near-field.
Jun 24 13:26:18 <SpeedEvil> It drops off as 1/r^4, not 1/r^2
Jun 24 13:26:45 <SpeedEvil> So at 10 times the range, the signal is down 10000 times, not 100.
Jun 24 13:26:55 <lcuk> they made a special EM signal?
Jun 24 13:27:08 <SpeedEvil> It's M, not E
Jun 24 13:27:35 <dm8tbr> SpeedEvil: it might couple into objects in the near field though and if your're lucky/unlucky they are resonant...
Jun 24 13:27:47 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 24 13:28:00 <SpeedEvil> Simplifying a lot for those that don't understand.
Jun 24 13:28:04 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: the capabilities payment, data transfer, doorlocks
Jun 24 13:28:28 <SpeedEvil> Depending on stuff.
Jun 24 13:28:32 <nid0> you can be much more inventive with nfc than that though
Jun 24 13:28:46 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: not talking about hardware though
Jun 24 13:28:48 <SpeedEvil> NFC has a lot of meanings to a lot of people, and the devices do not always interoperate
Jun 24 13:28:55 <nid0> putting my phone on my bedside table and having it go auto silent for the night would be far more useful
Jun 24 13:29:02 <nid0> only takes an nfc sticker on the table
Jun 24 13:29:24 <SpeedEvil> And for the NFC 'reader' to be very low power and active continuously.
Jun 24 13:29:29 <SpeedEvil> Something that I question.
Jun 24 13:35:46 <jonwil> What makes NFC different to all those transit cards or office door cards that already exist?
Jun 24 13:36:11 <jonwil> other than being built into a phone
Jun 24 13:36:14 <X-Fade> jonwil: you can influence the data.
Jun 24 13:36:15 <jonwil> instead of being a separate card
Jun 24 13:36:34 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: It's a reader too
Jun 24 13:36:39 <jonwil> oh nice
Jun 24 13:37:32 <SpeedEvil> I suspect in practice 'our'a ccess to it will be very strongly limited for seciruty reasons.
Jun 24 13:37:54 <jonwil> I posted all my Cell Broadcast SMS stuff to the devel mailing list
Jun 24 13:39:13 <RST38h> Meanwhile: A Russian woman died of a heart attack at her own funeral, after waking up to find praying mourners filing past her coffin.
Jun 24 13:39:48 <gri> In the future I also have to put a NFC sticker at my cat when the rfid chip gets old? :D
Jun 24 13:40:16 <jonwil> I look forward to a day when I can pay someone else money right then and there with a card, no need to worry about having to find an ATM to get cash from or hoping the other guy has an expensive merchant account with Visa or MasterCard
Jun 24 13:40:20 <nid0> no particular reason to
Jun 24 13:40:33 <nid0> for purely identifying a chip, nfc has no benefits over rfid
Jun 24 13:40:38 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: As I understand it the NFC payments thing is _not_ peer-peer
Jun 24 13:42:09 <jonwil> I guess I was thinking of something like Square for iPhone only using the NFC reader already in the phone
Jun 24 13:42:46 <jonwil> and someone finding a way to convince the credit card companies to support it without the need to spend huge bucks on expensive merchant account annual fees etc
Jun 24 13:43:15 <jonwil> but I doubt the credit card companies want to make it easier for Joe Blogs to accept credit cards, the risks are too big
Jun 24 13:43:26 <jonwil> After all, Joe Blogs might really be Joe the fraudster
Jun 24 13:43:46 <nid0> that would be possible with debit cards, but no way credit cards are going to take the risks on reversible transactions
Jun 24 13:44:46 <jonwil> anyhow, this is a moot point right now as the N900 sitting in front of me has no NFC :P
Jun 24 13:45:10 <jonwil> and I have no need to be able to accept payment from random people in this way
Jun 24 13:45:36 <nid0> device location aspects of nfc are way more interesting to me anyway
Jun 24 13:46:44 <jonwil> I think using NFC as a security device has possibilities, i.e. instead of using your keys to get inside your house, you swipe your phone over the reader and the door unlocks.
Jun 24 13:47:20 <jonwil> Although given that there have been alternatives to standard keys for years and very few houses use them, I doubt that's a big market
Jun 24 13:47:46 <nid0> the problem is that door unlocks with alternative methods generally also have a key for backup
Jun 24 13:48:05 <nid0> which makes the alternative method kind of redundant as the lock may as well not have it and remain just as pickable
Jun 24 13:48:44 <jonwil> Personally I would err on the side of security and not have key backup at all
Jun 24 13:49:10 <nid0> most people dont like, for example, being locked in/out of their house if there's a power cut though
Jun 24 13:49:16 <nid0> or if the reader breaks
Jun 24 13:49:19 <nid0> or if their phone breaks
Jun 24 13:49:20 <jonwil> Thats why you power the lock with both batteries and mains
Jun 24 13:49:21 <nid0> etc
Jun 24 13:49:27 <jonwil> If the mains goes off, the batteries kick in
Jun 24 13:49:45 <divan> Is there any QtDesigner/Creator plugins for Maemo-specific widgets(like Maemo5ValueButton)?
Jun 24 13:49:49 <nid0> and how long's the battery last? my keyed lock can last through an infinite-length power outage
Jun 24 13:50:16 <jonwil> You can also have an external plug where you can connect standard off-the-shelf batteries in case of emergency
Jun 24 13:50:56 <nid0> you're then introducing weaknesses into the lock and housing
Jun 24 13:51:04 <jonwil> true
Jun 24 13:51:32 <jonwil> but ultimatly if you want more security than a standard keyed lock, you have to give up something somewhere
Jun 24 13:51:45 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: The other issue is that what happens if the n9 battery dies
Jun 24 13:51:51 <jonwil> Thats a good point
Jun 24 13:52:09 <nid0> swipey card locks and similar are great for looking fancy, but theyre generally shitty for actual security because theyre either bypassable by design or risk being unopenable with failures either in the lock or device unlocking it
Jun 24 13:53:08 <jonwil> swipe card locks are best in environments where you need to give a bunch of different people keys and you want auditing and logging
Jun 24 13:53:23 <jonwil> hence why office buildings use them
Jun 24 13:53:26 <jonwil> and hotels use them
Jun 24 13:54:00 <nid0> another key reason places like them use them though is there're people on hand if the lock suddenly doesnt work for any reason
Jun 24 13:54:05 <RST38h> And they are also generally perfect for unlocking doors with a credit card pushed into the gap between the door and the frame
Jun 24 13:54:19 <nid0> where if you come home at 3am for a night out and the lock fails you're shit out of luck
Jun 24 13:55:59 <nid0> this building errs on the side of caution with it's rfid entry doors, it has several that relevant fobs will work on and uses magnetic locks
Jun 24 13:56:08 <nid0> the downside ofc being powercut = doors all unlocked
Jun 24 13:57:43 <jonwil> Auto-open-on-powercut tends to be mandated for safety reasons
Jun 24 13:57:53 <khertan> (15:48:46) SpeedEvil: jonwil: The other issue is that what happens if the n9 battery dies <<< nfc can work without battery
Jun 24 13:58:03 <jonwil> although auto-open-on-fire-alarm also seems to be mandated
Jun 24 13:58:04 <nid0> precisely, but on a house it equals a great way to bypass the lock :P
Jun 24 13:58:13 <SpeedEvil> khertan: yes, it can.
Jun 24 13:58:26 <SpeedEvil> khertan: The question is - what does it do without power - implementations vary.
Jun 24 13:58:59 <SpeedEvil> khertan: Does it rely on a back-end to do the right thing - for example pair with bliuetooth speakers, or open your door, with the NFC chip being a dumb radio.
Jun 24 13:59:12 * khertan would love to see device with digital print reader for unlocking (but which work fast)
Jun 24 13:59:16 <SpeedEvil> Or are there smarts in the NFC chip that are able to do stuff independantly.
Jun 24 13:59:29 <SpeedEvil> Capacitive screen with resolution to read prints.
Jun 24 13:59:37 <SpeedEvil> khertan: Also - iris recognition
Jun 24 13:59:57 <jonwil> The mythbusters busted fingerprint scanners as a security idea
Jun 24 14:00:10 <jonwil> although iris recognition works
Jun 24 14:00:13 <khertan> iris will be unusable in sun light condition and pretty slow
Jun 24 14:00:28 <jonwil> voice recognition could work
Jun 24 14:00:42 <khertan> jonwil: fingerprint is still better than putting dumb four number code
Jun 24 14:00:44 <SpeedEvil> khertan: It's not slow
Jun 24 14:00:57 <khertan> SpeedEvil: i mean on an mobile phone
Jun 24 14:01:05 <ruskie> besh security... something you have, something you are and something you know
Jun 24 14:01:12 <SpeedEvil> khertan: ah - yes - you do need to move the camera to the eye
Jun 24 14:01:16 <SpeedEvil> ruskie: naah.
Jun 24 14:01:22 <SpeedEvil> ruskie: There is _much_ better than that.
Jun 24 14:01:32 <SpeedEvil> Something you have, something you are, and something you don't know.
Jun 24 14:01:35 * khertan want an integrated stungun
Jun 24 14:02:06 * ruskie wants a tazer that looks like a phone he can hand off to a mugger and arm it in the process...
Jun 24 14:02:08 <khertan> so someone still your phone ... and detect then thief aren't the trusted user ... and stun it
Jun 24 14:02:53 <nid0> tbh, im happy that the n9 does at least come with theft tracking software
Jun 24 14:02:55 <khertan> and i also an api to activated it to stupid user saying that khweeteur sucks because it s not done in qml
Jun 24 14:03:06 <khertan> nid0: ? there is on ?
Jun 24 14:03:13 <khertan> s/on/one ?
Jun 24 14:03:25 <nid0> yeah, theres a piece of software in the included software list called "track and locate" or sth
Jun 24 14:03:44 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: WHO? it's been German CCC
Jun 24 14:03:47 <nid0> Key applications: Facebook, Twitter, Skype, Joikuspot Wi-Fi tethering, Accuweather, AP News, Swype, Track and Protect, Galaxy on Fire 2, Real Golf, Angry Birds Magic, Mail, video player, Drive, Feeds, search, calculator, Calendar, Contacts, music player, web browser, messaging, photos, photo editor, Ovi Store, Maps
Jun 24 14:03:50 <DocScrutinizer> not mythbusters
Jun 24 14:03:52 <nid0> "track and protect"
Jun 24 14:04:13 <ruskie> DocScrutinizer, could have been both
Jun 24 14:04:18 <jonwil> Mythbusters busted fingerprint readers in one episode
Jun 24 14:04:19 <ruskie> MythBusters featured it
Jun 24 14:04:24 <jonwil> Others may have busted it also
Jun 24 14:04:26 <khertan> nid0: no NFS Shift ? there is a icon in the theme of this game
Jun 24 14:04:29 <jonwil> but Mythbusters is where I saw it
Jun 24 14:04:35 <DocScrutinizer> mythbusters are the modern 3 stooges
Jun 24 14:04:41 <DocScrutinizer> they busted nothing really
Jun 24 14:04:56 <DocScrutinizer> except the things they blasted away with nitro
Jun 24 14:05:04 <khertan> didn't never heard of mythbuster
Jun 24 14:05:23 <nid0> khertan: no idea, thats just the key included software list on the nokia site
Jun 24 14:05:40 <nid0> that list doesnt seem to be all inclusive though, as it doesnt include foursquare either
Jun 24 14:05:45 <nid0> which is specifically mentioned at http://swipe.nokia.com/applications/
Jun 24 14:05:46 <DocScrutinizer> khertan: stuntman and SFX holiwood dudes that pretend to go science
Jun 24 14:06:01 <jonwil> ok, its been good talking about security and N9 and Cell Broadcast SMS but I have a hunger only the Kernel can satisfy so its time to go out and get some food (the success of CBSMS means that I am in a good mood and feeling like junk to celebrate :)
Jun 24 14:06:04 <nid0> though it might just be some will be on ovi rather than preloaded
Jun 24 14:06:07 <jonwil> cya later guys
Jun 24 14:06:12 <nid0> later
Jun 24 14:06:36 <khertan> nid0: also :)
Jun 24 14:06:48 <DocScrutinizer> sucess???? I obviously missed something
Jun 24 14:07:00 <SpeedEvil> he's decoded a broadcast CBS
Jun 24 14:07:08 <DocScrutinizer> hah
Jun 24 14:07:21 <DocScrutinizer> I could do that probably, with wireshark
Jun 24 14:07:28 <DocScrutinizer> hope he used sth better
Jun 24 14:07:31 <DocScrutinizer> smarter
Jun 24 14:08:19 <DocScrutinizer> alas it seems SMSCB is a strictly 2G thing
Jun 24 14:08:25 <DocScrutinizer> never seen any on 3G
Jun 24 14:08:39 <khertan> and it s 
Jun 24 14:08:45 <DocScrutinizer> so it's almost getting obsolete?
Jun 24 14:08:45 <khertan> and it s usefull for what ?
Jun 24 14:09:02 <DocScrutinizer> in Japan they send tsunami warning
Jun 24 14:09:12 <javispedro> omg
Jun 24 14:09:19 <DocScrutinizer> here you may get homezone notifications
Jun 24 14:09:19 <khertan> hum ... so they can prepare cam ?
Jun 24 14:09:31 <javispedro> do you realize this could mean than the lack of cbsms support in the n900 could have caused indirect tsunami deaths?
Jun 24 14:09:47 <khertan> oh ... this thing that is implemented in all s40 nokia phone which was never working in France
Jun 24 14:09:52 <DocScrutinizer> I'm aware of this
Jun 24 14:10:12 <khertan> and for those not having phone ?
Jun 24 14:10:23 <khertan> it s maybe not frequent in japan ... :)
Jun 24 14:10:34 <DocScrutinizer> those will get a call from you on landline
Jun 24 14:10:52 <DocScrutinizer> or you run over and shake them
Jun 24 14:11:55 <DocScrutinizer> I give a sh** what it's used for, I'm only interested if it's supported or not
Jun 24 14:12:58 <DocScrutinizer> my first mobile had no SMS support at all - "why do you need that? it's not even working as carriers don't support it here". One year later I was the only one who couldn't text for free
Jun 24 14:14:00 <DocScrutinizer> (yes, there's been a time where SMS were free, and only when carriers noticed users like it, they started to charge for it)
Jun 24 14:14:10 <nid0> I had a long conversation with a vodafone sales rep once who told me that "cameras are the new thing, but theyll never be available in phones you can get free on contract"
Jun 24 14:15:07 <ruskie> heh
Jun 24 14:15:17 <nid0> 12 months later, practically every phone on my o2 contract renewal list had a camera
Jun 24 14:15:19 <ruskie> frankly tha cameras in cell phones even the better ones aren't worth it
Jun 24 14:15:21 <DocScrutinizer> the hackers here wil know where I come from, and why it's stupid to ignore technology on a "who's using it" rationale
Jun 24 14:16:34 <nid0> sadly though, all the mobile carriers here are largely doing that
Jun 24 14:16:49 <ruskie> hmm is it just me or does qmfmail seem more useless than modest
Jun 24 14:16:50 <DocScrutinizer> ruskie: I dare to differ. I'd friggin useful
Jun 24 14:17:01 <nid0> the 4g spectrum sale that's coming soon is expected to do pretty badly, with the rationale being that people dont use 3g much so why bother with 4g
Jun 24 14:17:16 <SpeedEvil> ruskie: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/ WFM
Jun 24 14:17:24 <nid0> and they dont get that they arent raking in cash from 3g because it's 1) overpriced 2) shitty coverage and 3) shitty speed
Jun 24 14:18:19 <ruskie> SpeedEvil, so noisy pic...
Jun 24 14:18:50 <ruskie> http://codemages.net/20110617_001.jpg <-- frankly can't use this for anything much really
Jun 24 14:19:31 <Hurrian> ruskie, is that from the n900?
Jun 24 14:19:32 <ruskie> DocScrutinizer, ? qmfmail? it didn't even load anything from my INBOX... I expect an IMAP client to get a listing quickly...
Jun 24 14:19:35 <ruskie> Hurrian, yup
Jun 24 14:19:37 <javispedro> meegotouch does too many things
Jun 24 14:19:50 <Hurrian> the n900's camera is terrible in bad lighting conditions
Jun 24 14:20:03 <ruskie> Hurrian, which 90% of the time there are
Jun 24 14:20:10 <SpeedEvil> yep
Jun 24 14:20:11 <Hurrian> heh
Jun 24 14:20:16 <Hurrian> ^^^
Jun 24 14:20:25 <ruskie> even the pics SpeedEvil posted have noise in them
Jun 24 14:20:26 <SpeedEvil> In mediochre light, the default camera app does not do well
Jun 24 14:20:37 <SpeedEvil> ruskie: And yes, they do.
Jun 24 14:20:58 <Hurrian> speedevil, so does blessn900. i always have to use fcamera to get the shots my N95 used to take
Jun 24 14:21:09 <SpeedEvil> fcam++
Jun 24 14:21:55 <ruskie> frankly I'm looking for a decent always-in-pocket dedicated camera myself
Jun 24 14:21:58 <DocScrutinizer> ruskie: ?? I'm talking about camera
Jun 24 14:22:08 <ruskie> ahh
Jun 24 14:23:01 <hiemanshu> the only decent cameras are DSLRs
Jun 24 14:23:07 <DocScrutinizer> *all* my pictures at shae.ovo.com are made by N900 (minus one)
Jun 24 14:23:25 <joga> are there any (free) alternatives to sygic mobile maps if I'd like to have turn by turn car navigation for n900?
Jun 24 14:23:31 <DocScrutinizer> I just don't *need* a decent cam
Jun 24 14:23:43 <DocScrutinizer> I need a everywhere and always cam
Jun 24 14:23:50 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: DSLR
Jun 24 14:24:28 <ruskie> hiemanshu, not really
Jun 24 14:24:33 <ruskie> there are good alternatives
Jun 24 14:24:45 <hiemanshu> ruskie: hold on, I'll show you why
Jun 24 14:24:53 <ruskie> fuji actually has good sensors that they stick in some of theirs
Jun 24 14:25:05 <ruskie> they put big sensors in the compacts
Jun 24 14:25:16 <DocScrutinizer> I basically don'T care even if the shots are uggly as my butt
Jun 24 14:25:22 <ruskie> apparently has great low-light properties and low noise
Jun 24 14:25:37 <DocScrutinizer> I need the documentation, not the art and beauty
Jun 24 14:25:44 <ruskie> hiemanshu, also there's a new upstart that has some interesting tech
Jun 24 14:25:54 <hiemanshu> ruskie: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27748502/IMG_4501.JPG 
Jun 24 14:25:57 <hiemanshu> thats an unedited pic
Jun 24 14:26:10 <javispedro> aha, so orientation works very much like the pre
Jun 24 14:26:17 <Hurrian> oh, which reminds me, let's put all that wasted space, i mean the back cover to use. optical zoom, anyone?
Jun 24 14:26:58 <hiemanshu> most POS cameras I have used/have owned are shit, megapixel values barely matter
Jun 24 14:27:05 <Hurrian> ^^^
Jun 24 14:27:26 <javispedro> mikkov: did you build SDL statically on warmux?
Jun 24 14:27:36 <ruskie> hiemanshu, MP above 8 is pointless
Jun 24 14:27:40 <Hurrian> i have a 14.1 MPX sony cam, noisy as f***
Jun 24 14:27:56 <ruskie> the prob is that nobody bothers expanding the colour range and improve noise performance
Jun 24 14:28:05 <ruskie> http://www.lytro.com/ <-- btw that startup
Jun 24 14:28:06 <hiemanshu> ruskie: decent POS cameras are about $200-250, you could instead get a low end DSLR for about $350-400 which will perform much much better
Jun 24 14:28:14 <ruskie> hiemanshu, I already have a DSLR
Jun 24 14:28:21 <ruskie> I want something I can have in my pocket
Jun 24 14:28:27 <ruskie> and I'm planing on spending 100-200 eur on it
Jun 24 14:28:30 <hiemanshu> #justsaying
Jun 24 14:29:22 <hiemanshu> ruskie: for POS, canon, fuji, nikon
Jun 24 14:29:31 <hiemanshu> err
Jun 24 14:29:33 <hiemanshu> P&S
Jun 24 14:29:36 <ruskie> hehe
Jun 24 14:29:51 <ruskie> well fuji seems to be the best low-light peformer
Jun 24 14:29:56 <ruskie> though lytro seems interesting as well
Jun 24 14:30:01 <hiemanshu> my mind interperts P&S as POS :P
Jun 24 14:30:28 <ruskie> frankly don't want anything from canikon
Jun 24 14:30:32 <hiemanshu> the only reason there is a camera in my phone is that it comes with one
Jun 24 14:31:01 <hiemanshu> ruskie: well canon and nikon are decent
Jun 24 14:31:19 <hiemanshu> sony and olympus suck
Jun 24 14:31:36 <ruskie> I'm quite happy with the pics my Oly produces
Jun 24 14:32:05 <hiemanshu> I have an old oly too
Jun 24 14:32:10 <hiemanshu> from the 1990s
Jun 24 14:32:28 <ruskie> e-520 here
Jun 24 14:32:30 <hiemanshu> works better than most cameras today
Jun 24 14:33:45 <Damnshock> hello everybody
Jun 24 14:33:57 <Damnshock> I'm trying to flash the vanilla image
Jun 24 14:33:59 <Damnshock> without success
Jun 24 14:34:08 <Damnshock> I previously installed meego on it
Jun 24 14:34:37 <Hurrian> open kb, start flasher, hold U and connect
Jun 24 14:34:47 <hiemanshu> Damnshock: first flash vanilla image, then eMMC and then again vanilla one
Jun 24 14:34:51 <Damnshock> Hurrian: I'm trying to but it always boots meego
Jun 24 14:35:03 <ruskie> hah I can get a samsung omnia 7 from my cellco for 140eur... they must be joking...
Jun 24 14:35:44 <hiemanshu> ruskie: I have heard good things about the Canon PowerShot S95
Jun 24 14:36:25 <Hurrian> damnshock, flash the kernel then
Jun 24 14:36:27 <ruskie> the only interest for canon I might have is for use with the custom firmware stuff
Jun 24 14:36:53 <Damnshock> Hurrian: any link to where I can get?
Jun 24 14:37:08 <ruskie> but frankly when I was comparing pics from various cams... each one tended to skew one colour or another
Jun 24 14:37:12 <hiemanshu> Damnshock: need to flash the fiasco image first, then eMMC and then fiasco again
Jun 24 14:37:29 <Damnshock> mmm hiemanshu I'll try that
Jun 24 14:37:33 <DocScrutinizer> you all noticed the "user" manual for harmattan/N950?
Jun 24 14:37:46 <hiemanshu> Damnshock: dont reboot until the last flash
Jun 24 14:37:48 <DocScrutinizer> available since ~3h
Jun 24 14:38:19 <DocScrutinizer> 15 psges pdf
Jun 24 14:38:24 <DocScrutinizer> pages even
Jun 24 14:38:41 <ruskie> DocScrutinizer, nope? linky
Jun 24 14:39:01 <DocScrutinizer> see wiki n950 -> FCC registration
Jun 24 14:39:17 <Damnshock> hiemanshu: flashing right now:)
Jun 24 14:39:20 <DocScrutinizer> I'm not posting a direct link here, for some reason
Jun 24 14:40:32 <GeneralAntilles> http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23272&postcount=203
Jun 24 14:40:33 <GeneralAntilles> Teehee
Jun 24 14:40:48 <Damnshock> hiemanshu: it reboot by itself :S
Jun 24 14:41:05 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, did you apply for a devkit?
Jun 24 14:41:09 <hiemanshu> Damnshock: did you use the -R switch?
Jun 24 14:41:11 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: yep
Jun 24 14:41:23 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, out of interest, what project did you put?
Jun 24 14:41:33 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: I want to see that for myself (the PC swearing ;) )
Jun 24 14:41:37 <Damnshock> hiemanshu: yes, I did :S
Jun 24 14:41:51 <Damnshock> crap, should have done that hehe
Jun 24 14:41:52 <DocScrutinizer> there are also butt ugly exterio photos and rather interesting (for me) internal photos now
Jun 24 14:41:55 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: I've put some stuff about SDL games. 
Jun 24 14:42:01 <GeneralAntilles> community program?
Jun 24 14:42:15 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: yep, no launchpad account.
Jun 24 14:42:35 <hiemanshu> Damnshock: well just reflash the eMMC and fiasco now
Jun 24 14:42:39 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody needs to apply with theme hacking in mind.
Jun 24 14:42:41 <javispedro> I'm actually very interested in deciphering how does rotation work and how we can make SDL games first class citizens.
Jun 24 14:42:44 <Damnshock> hiemanshu: I'm going to :)
Jun 24 14:42:55 <GeneralAntilles> Given what konttori has said about the themes.
Jun 24 14:43:02 <DocScrutinizer> of course the internal photos aren't good enough to read a single chip print
Jun 24 14:43:24 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: agreed, they look awfully complex.
Jun 24 14:43:46 <DocScrutinizer> batery is BL-4D anyway
Jun 24 14:43:50 <GeneralAntilles> ian_r may be applying under theme hacking.
Jun 24 14:54:13 <Damnshock> hiemanshu: everything seems to have gone fine,booting the device right now. Thanks a lot for your help man!!!
Jun 24 14:54:57 <DocScrutinizer> the USB receptacle looks terribly strange
Jun 24 14:55:03 <hiemanshu> Damnshock: np
Jun 24 14:55:30 * khertan really hope to catch an n950 ... but have the feeling he will be disapointed ...
Jun 24 14:56:00 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: SpeedEvil: jacekowski: you might be interested in the shots of N950 internal hw guts
Jun 24 14:56:09 <SpeedEvil> where?
Jun 24 14:56:12 <DocScrutinizer> FCC
Jun 24 14:56:13 <dm8tbr> https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=339630&fcc_id=%27LJPRM-680%27
Jun 24 14:56:19 <SpeedEvil> Oh - I diddn't look through them in detail
Jun 24 14:56:30 <dm8tbr> available since today in the morning
Jun 24 14:56:55 <DocScrutinizer> not early in the morning though :-)
Jun 24 14:57:03 <dm8tbr> ack :)
Jun 24 14:57:14 <dm8tbr> the pictures are fairly low res though
Jun 24 14:57:22 <DocScrutinizer> yep :-S
Jun 24 14:57:33 <DocScrutinizer> no chip labels
Jun 24 14:57:58 <DocScrutinizer> but they removel ALL the cans :-)
Jun 24 14:57:59 <dm8tbr> let's hope some devices surface in the meego tampere community soon
Jun 24 14:58:09 <dm8tbr> then we can have a happy picture session
Jun 24 14:59:14 <DocScrutinizer> I hope to see one on my desk soon, though I'm undecided if I want to go N900-exploded again
Jun 24 14:59:16 <javispedro> fragile hinge
Jun 24 14:59:23 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jun 24 14:59:43 <DocScrutinizer> that's why it got rejected by carriers I heard
Jun 24 14:59:53 <SpeedEvil> The hunge looks fragile
Jun 24 14:59:57 <SpeedEvil> I wonder if it really is
Jun 24 15:00:24 <DocScrutinizer> you bet you mustn't sit on THAT device 
Jun 24 15:00:43 <javispedro> stupid grainy photos
Jun 24 15:00:45 <DocScrutinizer> N900 had chances to survive - this NOT
Jun 24 15:01:42 <jonwil> They could have just used the same design as the N900 but with upgraded hardware and OS
Jun 24 15:01:49 <jonwil> i.e. same sliding action
Jun 24 15:02:27 <dm8tbr> it's fairly similar to the E7 mechanics
Jun 24 15:02:27 <DocScrutinizer> now if only they had placed the file "schematics" there as well, by acciddent
Jun 24 15:03:18 <DocScrutinizer> N97 as well?
Jun 24 15:03:44 <DocScrutinizer> I like the fact it has a 42 key kbd
Jun 24 15:03:56 <javispedro> nah, hinge on n97 looks bigger
Jun 24 15:03:59 <DocScrutinizer> wouldn't want that to be 43
Jun 24 15:04:06 <dm8tbr> dunno would need to find an n97 to check :)
Jun 24 15:04:43 <DocScrutinizer> domesheet, just as somebody asked yesterday "click or soft?"
Jun 24 15:06:17 <DocScrutinizer> is there any way or time when/how you can get those schematics from FCC?
Jun 24 15:06:21 <khertan> ouch even the manual say hello developper
Jun 24 15:06:30 <DocScrutinizer> yep!
Jun 24 15:06:40 <DocScrutinizer> also watch the number of pages
Jun 24 15:07:18 <DocScrutinizer> khertan: developer doesn't mean a thing though, just "no consumer helpdesk included"
Jun 24 15:07:43 <Hurrian> lzop.c: undocumented option '--no-header'. just for testing.
Jun 24 15:08:01 <DocScrutinizer> also doesn't have to adhere to mandatory stuff for consumer devices, like 911 et cetera
Jun 24 15:08:28 <javispedro> ah, my carrier is going to love it.
Jun 24 15:08:44 <SpeedEvil> ?
Jun 24 15:08:49 <javispedro> being ironic
Jun 24 15:08:51 <javispedro> ;P
Jun 24 15:08:53 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ?
Jun 24 15:08:53 <SpeedEvil> Oh - you can't easily register arbitrary phones?
Jun 24 15:09:18 <javispedro> I can
Jun 24 15:09:53 <khertan> DocScrutinizer : This device is not commercially available. is pretty clear :)
Jun 24 15:10:13 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, so, microsim
Jun 24 15:10:22 <khertan> yep microsim
Jun 24 15:10:25 <GeneralAntilles> What is AT&T gonna say when (if) I take an N9 in there.
Jun 24 15:10:29 <GeneralAntilles> Is the N950 microsim?
Jun 24 15:10:35 <dm8tbr> thought the thing said explicitly NOT microsim
Jun 24 15:10:36 <DocScrutinizer> you can get scary shit commercially, like chainsaws, even 750kV transformers
Jun 24 15:10:50 <ruskie> or guns!!!
Jun 24 15:11:02 <khertan> GeneralAntilles: nope
Jun 24 15:11:06 <DocScrutinizer> developer doesn't mean it's not on sale. Just the shops are different ;-P
Jun 24 15:11:10 <SpeedEvil> The n950 battery is replaceable - and it has a microSD?
Jun 24 15:11:14 <SpeedEvil> Or no microSD
Jun 24 15:11:20 <SpeedEvil> I need to go and look at those phoens
Jun 24 15:11:21 <khertan> GeneralAntilles: Do not use a mini-UICC SIM card, also known as a micro-SIM card
Jun 24 15:11:30 <khertan> it s pretty clear too :)
Jun 24 15:11:31 <dm8tbr> SpeedEvil: if you pop off the back cover you can change the battery yes
Jun 24 15:11:40 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: miniSIM
Jun 24 15:12:01 <SpeedEvil> SD
Jun 24 15:12:03 <SpeedEvil> not SIM
Jun 24 15:12:07 <khertan> n950 The battery in the device is non-removable,
Jun 24 15:12:13 <dm8tbr> I was told in theory you can replace the N9 battery too, but it's much harder to pry it open
Jun 24 15:12:17 <DocScrutinizer> battery is BL-4D
Jun 24 15:12:31 <DocScrutinizer> khertan: it is
Jun 24 15:12:31 <dm8tbr> khertan: it sure is, saw it wednesday myself :)
Jun 24 15:12:34 <DocScrutinizer> definitely
Jun 24 15:12:59 <khertan> GeneralAntilles: no sd slot
Jun 24 15:13:17 <SpeedEvil> I wondered yesterday if the N9 can have its SIM live-swapped
Jun 24 15:13:19 <khertan> dm8tbr: so manual isn't uptodate :)
Jun 24 15:13:20 <GeneralAntilles> I wonder if AT&T even needs to see tho phone.
Jun 24 15:13:25 <ShadowJK> people cry and want battery hotswap, nokia makes coldswap impossible too. progress right there ;)
Jun 24 15:13:39 <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: both N9 ands N950 are microSIM
Jun 24 15:13:46 <dm8tbr> khertan: user replaceable and 'you can still do it if you know how' are two different things...
Jun 24 15:13:52 <khertan> DocScrutinizer it s not what manual say
Jun 24 15:14:14 <khertan> dm8tbr: so it s not removable :)
Jun 24 15:14:18 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, N950 manual seems to say not for N950.
Jun 24 15:14:24 <dm8tbr> khertan: if you consider yourself a dumb user, yes
Jun 24 15:14:26 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Jun 24 15:14:39 <DocScrutinizer> mompls
Jun 24 15:14:51 <khertan> dm8tbr: yeah but i mean ... use a second battery ... i ll not lost crew changing battery in the metro
Jun 24 15:14:53 <khertan> or tubes
Jun 24 15:14:54 <khertan> :)
Jun 24 15:15:02 <khertan> must go on .... bye everyone
Jun 24 15:15:05 <SpeedEvil> WAve.
Jun 24 15:15:06 <dm8tbr> khertan: it works fine without the screws
Jun 24 15:15:19 <dm8tbr> you still need to pry the plastic back off
Jun 24 15:15:58 <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: I may be wrong, but it sure looked like a standard sim what I saw in the N9
Jun 24 15:16:04 <DocScrutinizer> indeed, the holder seems to be 'normal' SIM size
Jun 24 15:16:38 <DocScrutinizer> dm8tbr: that's weird as the N9 specs clearly say microSIM iirc
Jun 24 15:16:47 <dm8tbr> also the n950 inside picture looks  like 'nowadays' normal sim
Jun 24 15:17:04 <dm8tbr> notice normal SIM is credit card size and a bit out of fashion :D
Jun 24 15:17:16 <DocScrutinizer> 0Y161 holder looks like standard SIM anyway
Jun 24 15:17:51 <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: maybe I didn't look close enough. I'll have to check monday.
Jun 24 15:18:01 <DocScrutinizer> dm8tbr: not here, just grabbed a phone and "meh, not THIS one, the holder there is sure not right size" ;-P
Jun 24 15:18:31 * dm8tbr still owns a _working_ Siemens P1 ...
Jun 24 15:18:38 <DocScrutinizer> dm8tbr: internal shots p13 looks like standard sized SIM
Jun 24 15:18:39 <dm8tbr> that takes 'normal' sims! :D
Jun 24 15:19:09 <DocScrutinizer> supernormal 
Jun 24 15:19:09 <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: ack, we'll need to check for the n9 too though
Jun 24 15:20:56 <DocScrutinizer> neither 0Y161 nor OY161 gives me any hit for hw component :-S
Jun 24 15:21:11 <GeneralAntilles> OYL61?
Jun 24 15:21:59 <DocScrutinizer> neither
Jun 24 15:23:22 <dm8tbr> btw: just noticed, on page 12 you can see the keyboard frame and it says N9 on it, lol, old casing
Jun 24 15:24:01 <dm8tbr> page 5 you can see it better
Jun 24 15:25:53 <ShadowJK> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/23/wireless_disclosure_act/ <- americans call hspa 4g? Is that why every random idiot is asking about 4G support?
Jun 24 15:26:03 <DocScrutinizer> this 0Y161 is *definitely* standard
Jun 24 15:26:07 <DocScrutinizer> not micro
Jun 24 15:26:20 <DocScrutinizer> I metered the dimensions
Jun 24 15:26:23 <nid0> ShadowJK: it varies from carrier to carrier
Jun 24 15:26:33 <dm8tbr> ShadowJK: carrier marketing departments screwed this one up
Jun 24 15:26:40 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jun 24 15:26:42 <nid0> at&t or one of them has a "4g" service thats just non-crippled 3g, afaik
Jun 24 15:26:58 <dm8tbr> ShadowJK: elreg ran a nice article that 4G is NOT what people claim :)
Jun 24 15:27:13 <DocScrutinizer> N9 like there: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333
Jun 24 15:27:24 <DocScrutinizer> we know this device for quite some time now
Jun 24 15:28:04 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: basically yes aiui
Jun 24 15:28:05 <nid0> odd that they totally threw the design out and went for a candybar instead, really
Jun 24 15:28:16 <DocScrutinizer> hspa+
Jun 24 15:29:08 <ShadowJK> ah I forget there was hspa+
Jun 24 15:29:36 <dm8tbr> ShadowJK: http://www.reghardware.com/2011/05/24/wtf_is_4g
Jun 24 15:32:28 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, *subtle* diffs between http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277344 and FCC internal shots regarding PCB layout
Jun 24 15:33:47 <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: well one says 0724 the other 1122, go figure :)
Jun 24 15:33:59 <DocScrutinizer> NB those engadget shots are 10 months old
Jun 24 15:34:10 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: N950 has regular sim slot btw.
Jun 24 15:34:22 <DocScrutinizer> we gathered as much :-)
Jun 24 15:34:27 <DocScrutinizer> nevertheless thanks
Jun 24 15:34:46 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: any idea about if that might change for N9?
Jun 24 15:35:42 <DocScrutinizer> not that it really matters, just out of curiosity
Jun 24 15:35:52 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: No, don't know.
Jun 24 15:36:12 <DocScrutinizer> what's your gut feeling?
Jun 24 15:36:22 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: micro
Jun 24 15:36:28 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Jun 24 15:36:32 <DocScrutinizer> makes sense
Jun 24 15:36:43 <DocScrutinizer> more "hype"
Jun 24 15:36:56 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: I seem to recall reading or seeing it in one of the videos.
Jun 24 15:37:27 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, me too that'S why I got taken by surprise to find mini on N950
Jun 24 15:37:58 <nid0> it is also clearly listed on nokia's site as using micro :p
Jun 24 15:38:12 <DocScrutinizer> that's what I meant
Jun 24 15:38:35 <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: what I'm wondering from this picture is. is the OMAP in the POP variety or is that RAM next to it. what's your take?
Jun 24 15:38:54 <DocScrutinizer> nid0: otoh the N950-flasher_release_notes don't list SIM in the list of hw diffs to N9
Jun 24 15:39:16 <DocScrutinizer> dm8tbr: mompls
Jun 24 15:39:26 <nid0> ima have to take a knife to my sim
Jun 24 15:39:55 <dm8tbr> how likely is it that the SIM holder size changes between an proto and the release version of the n9?
Jun 24 15:40:14 <dm8tbr> my guess would be unlikely, but that's just a guess
Jun 24 15:41:08 <DocScrutinizer> dm8tbr: I gues that huge critter next to SOC is companion chip. But that's really hard to tell
Jun 24 15:41:44 <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: companion chip as in PMIC, TI TWLxxxx?
Jun 24 15:42:15 <DocScrutinizer> dm8tbr: needs housing changes. Tooling is *expensive*. They won't do without massive need to
Jun 24 15:42:26 <DocScrutinizer> dm8tbr: yup
Jun 24 15:42:35 <dm8tbr> k, tx
Jun 24 15:42:39 <DocScrutinizer> just a really uneducated guess
Jun 24 15:42:45 <dm8tbr> yeah
Jun 24 15:43:06 <DocScrutinizer> I think OMAP always comes POP
Jun 24 15:43:09 <dm8tbr> well I can have a look out. after all the N9 density here in hervanta should be quite high ;)
Jun 24 15:43:13 <DocScrutinizer> TI OMAP
Jun 24 15:43:16 <plautius> why does this channel still have 300 lurkers?
Jun 24 15:43:29 <nid0> why not?
Jun 24 15:43:38 <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: IIRC you can get OMAP3 also in the non-pop variety, but TI doesn't recommend it
Jun 24 15:44:07 <DocScrutinizer> would be silly anyway for that class of device, that formfactor
Jun 24 15:44:13 <dm8tbr> plautius: nokia just released a new maemo device, why shouldn't it?
Jun 24 15:44:48 <DocScrutinizer> plautius: plus there's ~1/2 a million happy N900 usres, maybe more
Jun 24 15:44:51 <plautius> dm8tbr: i thought it was a meego device
Jun 24 15:45:03 <dm8tbr> plautius: that's what marketing likes to call it...
Jun 24 15:45:05 <plautius> DocScrutinizer: those numbers are real? that's great!
Jun 24 15:45:10 <DocScrutinizer> so why does this chan ONLY have 365 users?
Jun 24 15:45:38 <plautius> the only normal people i ever saw with n900s were in finland
Jun 24 15:45:56 <dm8tbr> there are normal people in finland? *snicker*
Jun 24 15:45:57 <obcecado_> plz define normal people
Jun 24 15:46:06 <plautius> i immediately asked them 'why did you buy that!'
Jun 24 15:46:13 <plautius> he said 'it's the best from nokia'
Jun 24 15:46:20 <plautius> he had no idea about linux
Jun 24 15:46:34 <Choom> I have an n900 and do not live in finland
Jun 24 15:46:34 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, the curse of maemo
Jun 24 15:46:40 <nid0> I know lots of people who have / have had n900's
Jun 24 15:46:46 <dm8tbr> plautius: congratulations you found out the motivation of 99% of all buyers
Jun 24 15:46:48 <Choom> the coworker sitting right beside me has an n900 and doesn't live in finland
Jun 24 15:46:50 <nid0> though admittedly theyre all ex symbian coders in cambridge
Jun 24 15:47:00 <Choom> and I have another two friends with n900s who don't live in finland
Jun 24 15:47:26 <DocScrutinizer> I know some that all are (ex-)Freerunner users
Jun 24 15:47:28 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
Jun 24 15:47:50 <DocScrutinizer> and they all are damn aware about the OS
Jun 24 15:48:08 <Choom> everyone I know bought it because it's a pocket linux bocks that also makes phone calls
Jun 24 15:48:27 <Choom> box*
Jun 24 15:48:28 <Choom> wow
Jun 24 15:49:27 <Choom> another interesting thing
Jun 24 15:49:36 <Choom> is that I'm seeing quite a lot of people excited about the N9
Jun 24 15:49:49 <Choom> even apple fanboys who haven't bought anything besides iphones for the last 4 years
Jun 24 15:50:37 <plautius> Choom: i will never understand what motivates the booboisie to buy a phone
Jun 24 15:50:51 <nid0> even my girlfriend likes the idea of a black n9
Jun 24 15:51:04 <plautius> i like them too - they look super
Jun 24 15:51:07 <nid0> she mentioned it to an apple fanboy she works with though, and his reply was "pff, dead platform"
Jun 24 15:51:31 <nid0> sadly, that says it all unless nokia make a definite statement to the contrary before release
Jun 24 15:51:32 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Jun 24 15:51:52 <DocScrutinizer> too late
Jun 24 15:52:13 <DocScrutinizer> trollop already confirmed THAT statement
Jun 24 15:52:14 <Choom> we don't know about their strategy yet
Jun 24 15:52:41 <Choom> assuming the rumors of an android N9 also making it to the market, they might be targeting different markets with different OSes
Jun 24 15:52:50 <DocScrutinizer> oh really? I have not the slightest doubt about trollops strategy
Jun 24 15:52:55 <Choom> windows for corporate environments, android for the average user, linux for the nerds
Jun 24 15:53:11 <Choom> well
Jun 24 15:53:13 <Choom> android is linux
Jun 24 15:53:18 <Choom> but you get the point :P
Jun 24 15:53:34 <DocScrutinizer> Choom: you're dreaming
Jun 24 15:53:44 <nid0> DocScrutinizer: im not so sure. the full video of the presentation to staff when he showed em the wp7 device hinted several times that meego dev is continuing with more devices on the way
Jun 24 15:55:22 <DocScrutinizer> ""trolop says >no more linux devices after N9, even when it sells like skunk<"
Jun 24 15:55:42 <DocScrutinizer> newspaper of yesterday
Jun 24 15:55:43 <nid0> iv seen that quote thrown about, but whats the actual source
Jun 24 15:55:50 <DocScrutinizer> interview with trolop
Jun 24 15:55:56 <nid0> it certainly wasnt said in the 20 min presentation he gave
Jun 24 15:56:16 <Choom> no, he said no more meego devices
Jun 24 15:56:24 <DocScrutinizer> ok
Jun 24 15:56:32 <Choom> and then stated that tne N9 was not meego but a Qt implementation
Jun 24 15:56:43 <DocScrutinizer> idi....
Jun 24 15:57:26 <DocScrutinizer> he's presenting a meego 1.2 harmattan device, and next day says "it's not meego" ???
Jun 24 15:57:53 <nid0> his video presentation also clearly has him saying that the ui concepts the n9 introduces are going to continue, qt is going to continue into the next billion "and elsewhere", and several references to the meego teams "continuing to do" great work etc etc, all in present tense
Jun 24 15:58:45 <DocScrutinizer> err, I'd need to actually watch that - alas I got no bucket around
Jun 24 15:59:53 <Choom> there was also a possible leak yesterday with a phone very similar to the N9 and its windows counterpart running android
Jun 24 16:00:10 <nid0> even his first sentence of it gives a clue, talking about the meego team and the "quality of work that's being done", not been done
Jun 24 16:00:30 <DocScrutinizer> I bet 98% of interested devels as well as users and other folks are rather convinced of "dead platform"
Jun 24 16:00:33 <jonwil> me, all I care about is making my N900 the best it can possibly be :)
Jun 24 16:00:34 <nid0> if he was in the mindset that "there thats the n9 launched, now meego can fuck off", im sure some past tenses would be slipping out
Jun 24 16:00:47 <lolcat> DocScrutinizer: Its alive!
Jun 24 16:00:58 <Choom> which, along with the fact that elob doesn't want to call it a meego phone, leads me to believe that they intend to target different market segments
Jun 24 16:01:08 <Choom> might be wishful thinking from me, but I like to believe it
Jun 24 16:01:20 <lolcat> What does he want to call it?
Jun 24 16:01:44 <nid0> well, he calls it meego frequently
Jun 24 16:01:52 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: I'm all with you
Jun 24 16:03:18 <ShadowJK> Choom, like samsung's bada?
Jun 24 16:03:41 <DocScrutinizer> maybe he starts calling it "OUR meego" next week, as opposed to "intel's meego" ;-P
Jun 24 16:03:59 <ShadowJK> did he say "intel's meegp"?
Jun 24 16:04:03 <lolcat> heh
Jun 24 16:04:31 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: I dunno, I really can't watch such shit
Jun 24 16:05:20 <nid0> the first minute and a half of the video is the main bit
Jun 24 16:05:34 <DocScrutinizer> too long for my stomach
Jun 24 16:05:41 <nid0> the next quarter of an hour is a finglish demonstration about how to view airline flight information on wp7.
Jun 24 16:05:51 <jonwil> I am currently investigating making some improvements to the FindMine game, if I can figure out how to get libillumination0-dev installed into my Scratchbox install
Jun 24 16:05:52 <plautius> come to ##antiwarradio
Jun 24 16:05:53 <plautius> show is on now    http://listen.kaosradioaustin.org/kaos-128
Jun 24 16:06:23 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: for winP7? ;-P
Jun 24 16:06:36 <jonwil> For maemo :P
Jun 24 16:07:41 <DocScrutinizer> plautius: now it's time to earn some bonus points before you got trolling/off-topic next time :-)
Jun 24 16:08:11 <lolcat> DocScrutinizer: He did that in several channels
Jun 24 16:08:22 <plautius> there is no fixing the plautius 
Jun 24 16:08:33 <DocScrutinizer> you bet there is
Jun 24 16:08:39 <jonwil> ok, good, FindMine is GPL
Jun 24 16:08:47 <jonwil> so it should be no problems to make the changes I want to make
Jun 24 16:08:49 <lolcat> DocScrutinizer: Lets nuture (fix) plautius 
Jun 24 16:08:58 <plautius> hey lolcat 
Jun 24 16:09:03 <lolcat> hello
Jun 24 16:09:21 <plautius> you keep that sphincter sewn shut
Jun 24 16:09:22 <Choom> google translate text:     Elopin that N9 is more Qt programming environment than MeeGo operating system utilizing the device. Qt programming environment allows applications to be programmed to operate three of Nokia's operating system, but not a Windows phone.
Jun 24 16:10:03 <lolcat> Nokia has three oses?
Jun 24 16:10:08 <nid0> well, if that is a true theyre obviously just trying to spin it the other way round to android
Jun 24 16:10:31 <DocScrutinizer> nah, but Qt runs on windows desktop afaik
Jun 24 16:10:33 <nid0> android is "our java overlay is linux really!!" and nokia's "our linux underlying os is a qt experience!"
Jun 24 16:10:53 <Choom> lolcat: yes: symbian, maemo, and harmattan
Jun 24 16:11:05 <lolcat> Meego is intel's
Jun 24 16:11:11 <Choom> those are the current target platforms in the Qt SDK
Jun 24 16:11:22 <lolcat> Also Maemo isn't an os, it is an distro
Jun 24 16:11:30 <Choom> which is an OS
Jun 24 16:11:51 <lolcat> Nokia doesn't own Linux (wich is an OS)
Jun 24 16:12:01 <Choom> no, linux is just a kernel
Jun 24 16:12:11 <lolcat> GNU/linux then
Jun 24 16:12:22 <DocScrutinizer> pleeease gentelmen
Jun 24 16:13:16 <DocScrutinizer> when trolop says "Qt runs on 3 OS" he probably meant symbian, linux, and windows desktop
Jun 24 16:13:18 <jonwil> ok, even better, the libillumination-dev package I need is in extras which means getting it for Scratchbox should be easy enough :)
Jun 24 16:13:34 <Choom> DocScrutinizer: no, he has claimed that Qt will not be available on wp7
Jun 24 16:13:51 <DocScrutinizer> pff
Jun 24 16:13:51 <Choom> there was an engadget article about it
Jun 24 16:14:14 <DocScrutinizer> wP7
Jun 24 16:14:32 <DocScrutinizer> he said exactly same in same sentence, above
Jun 24 16:14:42 <lolcat> So we can write a something (app/program/application/whatever floats your boat) in qt and have it multi platform?
Jun 24 16:14:49 <DocScrutinizer> >>but not a Windows phone.<<
Jun 24 16:15:08 <lolcat> Symbian, Maemo, Meego and Android?
Jun 24 16:15:19 <nid0> isnt it more likely by the 3 os's he means s40, symbian, and maego?
Jun 24 16:15:25 <jonwil> If I had a dollar for everything posted on Engadget that later turned out not to be true...
Jun 24 16:15:34 <DocScrutinizer> maemo and meego are the same OS basically
Jun 24 16:15:37 <lolcat> nid0: Maego? A mix of maemo/meego?
Jun 24 16:15:46 <DocScrutinizer> maybe not for trollop
Jun 24 16:15:49 <nid0> lolcat: ie both being counted as one, as essentially they are
Jun 24 16:15:57 <DocScrutinizer> but then he got his count incorrect
Jun 24 16:16:01 <lolcat> DocScrutinizer: Maemo has apt-get! I like apt-get
Jun 24 16:16:02 <Choom> DocScrutinizer: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/
Jun 24 16:16:22 <DocScrutinizer> lolcat: and I like russian vodka
Jun 24 16:16:39 <DocScrutinizer> Choom: SO WHAT?
Jun 24 16:17:04 <DocScrutinizer> even the URL says exactly what trollop said up there ^^^^
Jun 24 16:17:08 <Choom> DocScrutinizer: the UI frameworks are quite different, and they are presented as distinct target systems on Qt Creator
Jun 24 16:17:21 <lolcat> DocScrutinizer: Can I get the N9, take its stuff out, stick it into the n900 case, replace the screen with the N9 screen, and then make meego maemo + meego updates?
Jun 24 16:17:25 <DocScrutinizer> *yawn*
Jun 24 16:17:28 <Choom> so I Would Guess that nokia considers hem different OSes (and so would I, considering that core frameworks change)
Jun 24 16:18:05 <DocScrutinizer> Choom: you're boring me as you don't listen
Jun 24 16:18:17 <Choom> I'm sleepy
Jun 24 16:18:24 <Choom> sorry
Jun 24 16:18:25 <lolcat> I want N9 hardware into my N900!
Jun 24 16:18:26 <DocScrutinizer> Qt also is available on ubuntu, on debian, on fedorea...
Jun 24 16:18:28 <Choom> reading back :P
Jun 24 16:18:51 <DocScrutinizer> so how would trollop count exactly THREE os?
Jun 24 16:19:06 <Choom> sure, but none of those are Nokia OSes
Jun 24 16:19:21 <DocScrutinizer> and once again, I said "afaik windows DESKTOP runs Qt"
Jun 24 16:19:25 <nid0> I dont get the problem. s40, symbian, and meego.
Jun 24 16:19:30 <Choom> and I think we're nitpicking here
Jun 24 16:19:35 <Choom> so I won't continue down this road
Jun 24 16:19:46 <nid0> maemo is either not counted or included under the meego count, because they dont develop it any more and havent done for quite a while
Jun 24 16:19:48 <jonwil> hmm, someone suggested earlier that I ask on the osmocombb project channels about cell broadcast stuff but I dont know which channel would be most appropriate
Jun 24 16:20:50 <DocScrutinizer> honestly, I'm either geting a heart attack, or fall asleep, when we continue discussing trollop shit on that level
Jun 24 16:22:00 <DocScrutinizer> he trolls this chan even though he isn't here at all
Jun 24 16:22:10 <lolcat> nid0: s40 is symbian
Jun 24 16:22:16 <DocScrutinizer> yo
Jun 24 16:22:22 <lolcat> Sure he isn't here?
Jun 24 16:22:29 <DocScrutinizer> not really
Jun 24 16:22:39 <ShadowJK> s40 is not symbian
Jun 24 16:22:44 <ShadowJK> s60 is symbian
Jun 24 16:22:57 <lolcat> Elop, you dirty fuck, reveal yourself! You broke my N9! Fuck you!
Jun 24 16:23:36 <lolcat> Really?
Jun 24 16:23:48 <DocScrutinizer> [Whois] elop ist ~elop@wsru.co.uk (elop)
Jun 24 16:24:16 <ShadowJK> lolcat, really, s40 isn't symbian
Jun 24 16:24:40 <ShadowJK> s30 and s40 are "Nokia OS" 
Jun 24 16:25:22 <ShadowJK> j2me devel api for third party apps
Jun 24 16:26:12 <lolcat> hmm
Jun 24 16:26:23 <lolcat> I'll never have on of those
Jun 24 16:26:32 <lolcat> Maybe a cheap s40 for backup
Jun 24 16:26:46 <ShadowJK> they're what the common man refers to as "dumbphone" and nokia calls featurephone
Jun 24 16:26:51 <Sicelo> s30 doesnt 'exist' anymore, does it?
Jun 24 16:26:56 <ShadowJK> dunno
Jun 24 16:27:20 <DocScrutinizer> don't you think it's *way* more interesting and exciting to spot references to new unseen devices in meego repository, rather than decrypting trollop's way to count platforms that run Qt?
Jun 24 16:27:26 <Sicelo> iirc it was only on 3510i
Jun 24 16:27:49 <ShadowJK> What does 1100 and 1600 run?
Jun 24 16:28:03 <nid0> you can still get nokia 1100's 
Jun 24 16:29:53 <Sicelo> those don't do j2me :/
Jun 24 16:29:59 <Sicelo> maybe i'm OT
Jun 24 16:30:54 <ShadowJK> yeah they dont
Jun 24 16:30:59 <lolcat> Sicelo: Nobody was OT since febuary last year here
Jun 24 16:31:11 <lardman> re
Jun 24 16:32:00 <jonwil> I wish I had some more docs on how Cell Broadcast works or better yet some example packets beyond just the one I can get the local tower to send me
Jun 24 16:32:01 <Sicelo> what happened February? :p
Jun 24 16:32:15 <nid0> meego got announced.
Jun 24 16:32:23 <nid0> and maemo was eol'd
Jun 24 16:32:56 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: drive around a bit?
Jun 24 16:33:17 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: Or publish something that can snarf them if we install it
Jun 24 16:33:44 <jonwil> well I posted on the mailing list with all the notes and stuff I had
Jun 24 16:33:46 <jonwil> have
Jun 24 16:33:54 <jonwil> including the test dumper I am using
Jun 24 16:34:13 <jonwil> and the bytes I had to change in libsms to get things to work
Jun 24 16:34:18 <SpeedEvil> I mwan in extras-devel or something
Jun 24 16:35:07 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: \o/
Jun 24 16:35:20 <jonwil> \o/ what?
Jun 24 16:35:30 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: I suggested that one byte, some time ago. You recall that? :-)
Jun 24 16:35:49 <jonwil> This is a change of 3 bytes
Jun 24 16:35:53 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: nice you succeeded to receive a smscb
Jun 24 16:36:07 <jonwil> based on what I see in the new Harmattan x86 libsms package
Jun 24 16:36:08 <DocScrutinizer> ok, one opcode
Jun 24 16:37:10 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: *that* is clearly a patch tha needs to go to cssu
Jun 24 16:37:23 <jonwil> nope, its 2 opcodes actually
Jun 24 16:37:25 <jonwil> :)
Jun 24 16:37:29 <jonwil> 2 instructions :)
Jun 24 16:37:32 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Jun 24 16:37:55 <jonwil> is there an IRC channel or discussion forum/list for CSSU where the dev guys hang out?
Jun 24 16:39:42 <jonwil> I just thought of another option, perhaps it would be possible to completly duplicate sms_gsm_cb_routing_ntf and then use LD_PRELOAD to make the dynamic linker use my new copy instead of the original. Although I have no idea how that works on ARM
Jun 24 16:39:46 <lardman> jonwil: yep, #maemo-ssu
Jun 24 16:40:03 <jonwil> or with ARM position-independent-code though
Jun 24 16:42:06 <jonwil> the advantage of LD_PRELOAD is that it doesn't require redistributing a nokia binary file
Jun 24 16:42:41 <lardman> jonwil: just read your post to the list, nice bit of binary patching work there :)
Jun 24 16:43:49 <jonwil> believe it or not, I find reverse engineering fun :)
Jun 24 16:43:55 <nicofs> Is there a way to create one's own easy debian image?
Jun 24 16:44:00 <jonwil> and have been doing it for years
Jun 24 16:44:13 <plautius_> wow! very insteresting documents released from the arizona police department by lulzsec!
Jun 24 16:44:14 <jonwil> mostly on PC games of all sorts
Jun 24 16:44:26 <plautius_> DocScrutinizer: have you seen them yet?
Jun 24 16:44:45 <lardman> jonwil: same here :)
Jun 24 16:48:10 * lardman heads for home, catch you guys over the weekend hopefully
Jun 24 16:48:46 <jonwil> ok, a look at sms_gsm_cb_routing_ntf suggests that cloning it shouldn't be hard
Jun 24 16:50:56 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: ld_preload would work for sure, but on cssu I guess we could even patch the original file
Jun 24 16:51:23 <jonwil> LD_PRELOAD is cleaner though and wont require people to install CSSU just for CBSMS
Jun 24 16:52:04 <DocScrutinizer> still needs cssu, as you need to patch the location where you have to insert LD_PRELOAD
Jun 24 16:52:23 <DocScrutinizer> but I agree a clone is for sure the nicer method
Jun 24 16:53:54 <DocScrutinizer> well, if we create a package that brute-force patches existing files, the we could get away with a package in extras repo ;-)
Jun 24 16:55:48 <jonwil> a simple binary patch does seem the easiest, will discuss it in #maemo-ssu then
Jun 24 16:56:02 <jonwil> who are the people that do the decision making regarding the CSSU? (if there are such people)
Jun 24 16:57:03 <nicofs> Is there a way to create one's own easy debian image? Or some sort of how-to for creating a similar chroot environment? Any help is appreciated...
Jun 24 16:58:13 <jonwil> the other problem I just realized with a clone of that function is that it calls msgbuf_get_ptr, sb_length_get and sb_id_get from libisi.so (functions I dont really know how to properly use)
Jun 24 16:58:41 <scoobertron> is anyone using mediabox?  am I right in thinking it should work as a dlna control point?
Jun 24 18:12:13 <dragly> Anyone where who's got their hands on a N950?
Jun 24 18:12:39 <dragly> I'm already having trouble flashing mine :(
Jun 24 18:13:11 <pronto> if i ever own a bunch of land(like massive mounts of acres)  im so going to put shit like this on it in random places, hopefully some of it is wooded area   http://i.imgur.com/3Dhzj.jpg   
Jun 24 18:13:21 <pronto> wait
Jun 24 18:13:25 <pronto> the n950 is out?
Jun 24 18:13:48 <dragly> kinda. It's not for sale, but Nokia has started shipping it to developers.
Jun 24 18:14:21 <ShadowJK> dragly, where do you live?
Jun 24 18:14:27 <dragly> Worked very fine until I decided to "Clear device". Now it won't even boot.
Jun 24 18:14:29 <dragly> Norway
Jun 24 18:14:36 <ShadowJK> Ah ok
Jun 24 18:15:04 * ShadowJK calls his SWAT team: "The device is in Norway, I repeat, the device is in Norway."
Jun 24 18:15:54 <dragly> Hehe.
Jun 24 18:16:29 <dragly> Have you got any experience with the N900 flasher. Seems they are similar, so maybe I can issue some command line options that would help?
Jun 24 18:17:01 <ShadowJK> Well with N900 the main challenge is getting the N900 into a state where it will accept flashing
Jun 24 18:17:07 <Corsac> dragly: and you can't reflash it again?
Jun 24 18:17:22 <Corsac> I mean, what does it say when you try?
Jun 24 18:17:24 <ShadowJK> The easiest way is to remove the battery, connect the USB cable, start flasher, insert battery
Jun 24 18:17:30 <dragly> I'm doing a reflash now. It's "erasing" as we speak.
Jun 24 18:17:51 <dragly> Hm... Guess I'll have to dig out some special screw drivers to lift the battery out in that case.
Jun 24 18:19:07 <dragly> The flash log is here, if it is of any help: http://pastebin.com/Qa13VdbK
Jun 24 18:19:22 <dragly> Seems to be some kind of strange security error. (Pentagon device?)
Jun 24 18:20:12 <ShadowJK> Looks like it found the device ok
Jun 24 18:20:28 <dragly> Yes. And it erases everything with success too apparently.
Jun 24 18:20:52 <dragly> But as soon as it's supposed to load the images, it just fails with the errors you see in the log.
Jun 24 18:21:20 <dragly> The erase takes about 15 minutes, so it's an awful lot of time to wait just to see it fail every time :(
Jun 24 18:21:56 <ShadowJK> hm
Jun 24 18:21:58 <Corsac> hmhm, thanks, ape-algo is indeed a tiny flashing environment then
Jun 24 18:22:38 <dragly> seems so. The transfer before the erase is extremely quick.
Jun 24 18:23:22 <Corsac> bb5_rdc_cert_read() are the function calls to the TEE which checks if you have a r&d cert on the device (which you have not, but I think it's normal)
Jun 24 18:23:41 <Corsac> but the real problem seems to be that your apparently try to “downgrade” the firmware
Jun 24 18:23:45 <dragly> ah, so that shouldn't be the problem?
Jun 24 18:23:53 <Corsac> which is not allowed
Jun 24 18:24:01 <dragly> I see. Why would they publish an older firmware version than they ship?
Jun 24 18:24:10 <Corsac> no idea :/
Jun 24 18:24:18 <FIQ|n900> quick question: has anyone got J2ME to run on N900? a friend ask
Jun 24 18:24:26 <ruskie> there is some emulator
Jun 24 18:24:28 <wmarone> heh
Jun 24 18:24:37 <Corsac> Version of 'sw-release': DFL61_HARMATTAN_10.2011.24-7_PR_RM680
Jun 24 18:24:47 <Corsac> Image SW version DFL61_HARMATTAN_1.2011.22-6_PR_RM680
Jun 24 18:24:49 <wmarone> four twitter clients, none work
Jun 24 18:24:57 <FIQ|n900> i know J2SE works with iced tea
Jun 24 18:24:58 * wmarone casts voodoo upon them
Jun 24 18:25:01 <FIQ|n900> but J2ME?
Jun 24 18:25:30 <dragly> Ah, thanks for pointing that out Corsac.
Jun 24 18:25:32 <ruskie> FIQ|n900, as said there is something about j2me in the repos
Jun 24 18:25:41 <ruskie> emolator iirc or something
Jun 24 18:25:44 <ruskie> erm emulator
Jun 24 18:25:46 <FIQ|n900> let's check it out
Jun 24 18:25:58 <dragly> I guess they might have done a mistake by uploading an old version or something then.
Jun 24 18:26:22 <dragly> Why would it be risky to downgrade by the way? Isn't that quite normal?
Jun 24 18:26:30 <Corsac> depends
Jun 24 18:26:34 <Corsac> on a developer device it might be ok
Jun 24 18:26:52 <Corsac> but downgrading on a production phone can be problematic
Jun 24 18:26:54 * dragly hoping for a command line option that says "--force-downgrade"
Jun 24 18:27:17 <Corsac> if you find a flaw in a firmware version, then you hope people upgrade and you try to prevent reverting to the bad version
Jun 24 18:27:34 <Corsac> so noone can exploit you by reverting to the vulnerable version
Jun 24 18:27:46 <dragly> That makes sense.
Jun 24 18:28:24 <dragly> Hmm... How can I obtain the new version then. Better go for a Google-hunt. I guess there are noone at work at Nokia until monday again.
Jun 24 18:29:04 <Oppo|n900> hi
Jun 24 18:29:08 <dragly> Except it the U.S. maybe? But would anyone there have the newest firmware laying around on their desk?
Jun 24 18:29:56 <Oppo|n900> is there a java SE in the repositories for maemo?
Jun 24 18:30:12 <dragly> Damn... I was so happy that the device came today. Guess I'll have to be patient for a couple more days.
Jun 24 18:30:27 <Oppo|n900> if so, what is it called?
Jun 24 18:30:45 <Oppo|n900> ME*
Jun 24 18:30:45 <dragly> Where should I file a bug for this? I guess bugs.maemo.org isn't the right place anymore?
Jun 24 18:31:02 <Sicelo> 0_0.. coincidence? ;/
Jun 24 18:31:25 <dragly> I'll try http://developer.nokia.com/bugs
Jun 24 18:33:14 <Corsac> dragly: when you got your n950 didn't you get an url or something to report issue?
Jun 24 18:33:26 <Corsac> in the package itself or in the mail you might have received
Jun 24 18:33:39 <FIQ|n900> wat
Jun 24 18:33:48 <FIQ|n900> N950 already being produced?
Jun 24 18:33:49 <dragly> Nope. Just the developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo page
Jun 24 18:33:59 <dragly> FIQ|n900: It's already being shipped :)
Jun 24 18:34:05 <dragly> But only to developers
Jun 24 18:34:10 <Corsac> reporting on meego.com might not really be a good idea either
Jun 24 18:34:13 <FIQ|n900> yeah, i know
Jun 24 18:34:33 <dragly> Seems http://developer.nokia.com/bugs has a Harmattan category. I'll try my luck there.
Jun 24 18:34:45 <dragly> After all, I downloaded the flasher from developer.nokia.com as well.
Jun 24 18:34:48 <FIQ|n900> too bad there's only one device for us non-devs on meego in sight, and that one doesn't have a keyboard...
Jun 24 18:35:05 <FIQ|n900> I guess I'll stick to N900 a bit more
Jun 24 18:35:15 <FIQ|n900> as it still works fine
Jun 24 18:35:43 <FIQ|n900> keyboard as in, a hardware one
Jun 24 18:35:49 <dragly> Strange thing that the date for the firmware version on my device is 24th of July by the way... :s
Jun 24 18:36:04 <Sicelo> Oppo|n900: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37799 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52898
Jun 24 18:38:02 * FIQ|n900 wants a phone that works the way his computer do, more or less, i.e. real linux experience. N900 is the *only* options on the market currently with that
Jun 24 18:38:12 <FIQ|n900> option*
Jun 24 18:38:46 <Corsac> dragly: it's not july 24th
Jun 24 18:39:17 <Corsac> dragly: if the versionning scheme didn't change it's more like the 7th revision on week 24
Jun 24 18:39:24 <Corsac> so last week
Jun 24 18:39:25 <dragly> oh, I see that it would make no sense now :-p
Jun 24 18:39:42 <dragly> that would make the day a major version and the month a minor
Jun 24 18:39:42 <Corsac> (well, week number is not really a good idea since not everyone has the same definition but eh :)
Jun 24 18:39:53 <Corsac> I don't think there's day/month
Jun 24 18:40:08 <dragly> hehe. Okay, but then I'm not so scared. I guess they have a newer version internally.
Jun 24 18:40:30 <Corsac> yeah but not providing the installed version is a bad idea
Jun 24 18:40:38 <Corsac> as you already found out :)
Jun 24 18:41:09 <dragly> Yep. Which leaves me with a "bricked" device over the weekend.
Jun 24 18:41:23 <Corsac> but at least you have a device
Jun 24 18:41:24 <Corsac> ;p
Jun 24 18:41:45 <Corsac> it'd be worth trying to fool the flasher though
Jun 24 18:42:05 <dragly> Yeah, but how.
Jun 24 18:42:13 <gri_> dragly: Could you take a photo with the n950 and n900 side by side (even though it does not work)? :) I'm interested in the thickness-factor
Jun 24 18:42:37 <dragly> Maybe I could open the bin in some Hex editing program and change the version number? :p
Jun 24 18:42:47 <dragly> gri_: Of course. Hang on a minute ;)
Jun 24 18:43:13 <Corsac> dragly: nah you don't need that
Jun 24 18:43:19 <Corsac> well, I don't think so
Jun 24 18:43:21 <Corsac> wait a sec
Jun 24 18:44:28 <dragly> Corsac: Okay :) Thanks
Jun 24 18:44:42 <Corsac> hmhm, well, yeah, maybe you have to
Jun 24 18:44:43 <Corsac> :)
Jun 24 18:45:50 <dragly> Would that be dangerous in any way?
Jun 24 18:45:58 <dragly> Could it get any worse? :p
Jun 24 18:45:58 <Corsac> no idea :)
Jun 24 18:46:56 <dragly> Don't know if I dare trying. But I'll try to open the bin file at least :p
Jun 24 18:47:52 <Corsac> no exactly sure how they are packed, you can extract them but I don't from where exactly the version number is checked
Jun 24 18:47:58 <Corsac> and if there's a signature somewhere
Jun 24 18:48:07 <Corsac> (I'd assume so)
Jun 24 18:48:10 <FIQ|n900> "ups, i bricked the developer phone a few hours after getting it"
Jun 24 18:48:21 <dragly> FIQ|n900: That's me! :p
Jun 24 18:48:43 * FIQ|n900 wants a N950 too
Jun 24 18:48:50 <Corsac> fun, the flasher.save doesn't have the --moslo arg
Jun 24 18:49:20 <dragly> Corsac: What is the --moslo arg?
Jun 24 18:49:24 <Corsac> no idea
Jun 24 18:51:18 <piggz> the problem with tmo is that it stops be getting any work done!
Jun 24 18:52:15 <ShadowJK> fennec on N900/MeegoCE seems much faster than on N900/Maemo5...
Jun 24 18:52:46 <piggz> ShadowJK: yes, i got that impression too
Jun 24 18:52:58 <Corsac> hmhm, iirc fiasco-gen has a way to sign images so you can unpack images but I'm not sure you could repack it correctly
Jun 24 18:53:29 <Corsac> but it might be possible to extract the various images and flash them one by one, but as we don't really know how flasher works, it might be a bad idea
Jun 24 18:55:00 <dragly> Corsac: I guess you're right. I really miss the --force option in the flasher :(
Jun 24 18:55:10 <dragly> Can't seem to find anything similar yet.
Jun 24 18:55:21 <FIQ|n900> Hm, would it be possible to get uboot running w/o running stock kernel but powerkernel?
Jun 24 18:55:22 <Corsac> not sure it's in the flasher
Jun 24 18:55:36 <Corsac> it's more in the n950 itself
Jun 24 18:55:44 <Corsac> well, in the ape-algo image
Jun 24 18:55:55 <FIQ|n900> as uboot in the repositories seems to conflict with powerkernel
Jun 24 18:57:31 <dragly> FIQ|n900: I think I read about something like a uboot-power, but I won't say that for sure.
Jun 24 18:57:46 <FIQ|n900> du kunde ha valt en bättre font ;)
Jun 24 18:57:54 <FIQ|n900> er, wrong channel..
Jun 24 18:58:04 <FIQ|n900> dragly, i'll look
Jun 24 18:58:05 <dragly> Corsac: So no renaming would do then :(
Jun 24 18:58:13 <dragly> FIQ|n900: Jeg synes fonten er fin jeg :)
Jun 24 18:59:04 <FIQ|n900> indeed uboot-power seems to be there
Jun 24 19:01:32 <dragly> gri_: Transfering image to PC now ;)
Jun 24 19:06:24 <dragly> gri_: Here is the N900 and the N950 lined up next to eachother: http://dragly.org/?attachment_id=494
Jun 24 19:07:54 <gri_> dragly: Thank you! Looks as thick as an Iphone but with keyboard :)
Jun 24 19:08:15 <SpeedEvil> dragly: Ok to use that in wiki?
Jun 24 19:09:04 <Corsac> hmmh yeah, ape-algo is a linux kernel + a tiny script to run softupd
Jun 24 19:09:11 <dragly> SpeedEvil: To use the web browser in wiki?
Jun 24 19:09:16 <SpeedEvil> dragly: pic
Jun 24 19:09:27 <dragly> Oh, of course. CC-BY-SA ;)
Jun 24 19:09:48 <SpeedEvil> Trying to fix up the wiki a bit.
Jun 24 19:10:36 <dragly> SpeedEvil: Cool :)
Jun 24 19:14:04 <dragly> Uhm... Was it stupid of me to post the full log online? I just saw that there is a Device Identifier in there :o
Jun 24 19:14:23 <Corsac> yeah, might not have been the wisest thing
Jun 24 19:14:36 <dragly> Doh...
Jun 24 19:15:17 <dragly> But how can that possibly be misused?
Jun 24 19:15:38 <Corsac> no idea but I usually prefer to be safe than sorry :)
Jun 24 19:18:12 <Shapeshifter> dragly: is it good?
Jun 24 19:18:13 <dragly> I agree :)
Jun 24 19:18:31 <dragly> Shapeshifter: Is what good? The N950?
Jun 24 19:18:38 <Shapeshifter> yeah
Jun 24 19:18:58 <dragly> I managed to temporarily brick it now, but until I did that it was a pleasure to use :)
Jun 24 19:20:09 <Shapeshifter> dragly: how linuxy is it? I mean, does it feel like a proper linux or is it slightly out of shape like on the n900?
Jun 24 19:21:13 <dragly> I'm not really sure what you mean by that. It has a terminal like the N900, but the interface is of course like a smartphone.
Jun 24 19:21:22 <dragly> It is pretty far from any desktop distro.
Jun 24 19:23:18 <gri_> dragly: Did they send you one with norwegian keyboard layout? :D
Jun 24 19:23:19 <Shapeshifter> dragly: does it ship with busybox? does it have man pages? 
Jun 24 19:24:42 <dragly> gri_: Nope. It's the english keyboard version. Didn't notice that before just now :p
Jun 24 19:25:21 <dragly> Shapeshifter: That I haven't had the chance to check. It's said that the N9 will have BusyBox, so I guess the N950 does too, but man pages I don't know if are installed.
Jun 24 19:25:56 <Shapeshifter> dragly: mh, I'd also like to know about the partitioning, being one of the utterly broken things on the n900.
Jun 24 19:26:09 <Shapeshifter> but oh well. we'll never see it in the stores anyway, so
Jun 24 19:27:34 <gri_> RX71-47-2_QEMU_MR0:~# man
Jun 24 19:27:34 <gri_> -sh: man: not found
Jun 24 19:28:37 <Shapeshifter> well I admit it makes sense to not include man pages on a device with limited space. a premade package would be nice though
Jun 24 19:29:07 <Sicelo> Shapeshifter: iirc somewhere nokia mentioned that partitioning follows the FHS
Jun 24 19:56:58 <GAN900> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/06/nokias-new-meego-based-n9-is-set-up-for-failure.ars
Jun 24 20:16:19 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, up for fixing the accelerometer driver? :)
Jun 24 20:16:48 <DocScrutinizer> lol, ask me next week, I feel pissed by the N950 fighting and bitching
Jun 24 20:16:56 <merlin1991> MohammadAG: is the lockscreen still an overlay?
Jun 24 20:17:16 <dragly> DocScrutinizer: Do you have an N950?
Jun 24 20:17:28 <DocScrutinizer> nope, and I'll not get any
Jun 24 20:17:43 <dragly> heh, ok :)
Jun 24 20:18:59 <DocScrutinizer> not really sad about it, I'm happy with my N900. But I regret the hours invested for applying
Jun 24 20:19:43 <dragly> Oh, so that's what you meant about fighting. I was thinking you was fighting with the device or something.
Jun 24 20:19:52 <DocScrutinizer> almost a whole day, counting in the the really unpleasant experience at developers.nokia.com
Jun 24 20:20:08 <MohammadAG> merlin1991, you shouldn't know that
Jun 24 20:20:25 <merlin1991> :D
Jun 24 20:20:29 <merlin1991> But is it?
Jun 24 20:20:31 <dragly> You ended up not applying? Or you didn't have your application approved?
Jun 24 20:21:11 <DocScrutinizer> I ended up getting advised to apply better
Jun 24 20:21:33 <dragly> Ah, I see :(
Jun 24 20:22:57 <MohammadAG> I applied, but for some reason I doubt I'm getting a device
Jun 24 20:22:58 <gri_> DocScrutinizer: You could also apply again at meego.com?
Jun 24 20:23:22 <DocScrutinizer> I did, after wasting a day with dev.nokia.com
Jun 24 20:23:48 <DocScrutinizer> and now learnt that's a beauty competition of project pages
Jun 24 20:25:04 <DocScrutinizer> meh, nevermind. Konttori asked me to apply, it's up to him if I receive a device or not. I don't really care
Jun 24 20:26:56 <DocScrutinizer> it's not like my daily presence here could get any increase, I'm for sure not designing a project page to make my later wasting time with helping out happen
Jun 24 20:27:09 <DocScrutinizer> that'S why I suggested MohammadAG to ask next week
Jun 24 20:27:43 <MohammadAG> I see
Jun 24 20:35:29 <MohammadAG> does anyone know how to read notifications?
Jun 24 20:35:59 <lcuk> with your eyes.
Jun 24 20:36:12 <lcuk> when they popup, look in their direction :P
Jun 24 20:37:27 <hiemanshu> or record the screen at all times with another camera, so it can pause and read it if you are really slow
Jun 24 20:38:54 <lcuk> hiemanshu, would you need to track the notifications on the second cameras' screen also?
Jun 24 20:38:55 <wmarone> buncha comedians in here ;)
Jun 24 20:39:37 <hiemanshu> lcuk: right so setup a circular recursive recording which ends up at the N900s camera
Jun 24 20:40:27 <lcuk> with magnets?
Jun 24 20:41:58 <hiemanshu> nope, tripods
Jun 24 20:42:00 <hiemanshu> they are cheap
Jun 24 20:43:00 <lcuk> MohammadAG, I hear you can use dbus
Jun 24 20:43:12 <lcuk> is the other option
Jun 24 20:43:52 <MohammadAG> hmm
Jun 24 20:45:29 <lcuk> wmarone, I was being technically correct
Jun 24 20:48:21 <GeneralAntilles> The best kind of correct.
Jun 24 21:04:29 * merlin1991 has fun with scratchbox again, yay for cheap us suppliers
Jun 24 21:18:14 <FIQ|n900> dragly, do you have the device or just loan it?
Jun 24 21:20:19 <FIQ|n900> the N950 i mean
Jun 24 21:28:33 <messerting> My N900 clock is constantly 2 minutes off. I have set "update automatically" in the clock settings. From where does it sync?
Jun 24 21:29:14 <X-Fade> messerting: gsm network.
Jun 24 21:29:37 <angelox> Hi all 
Jun 24 21:30:04 <angelox> installed kernel-power by running "apt-get install kernel-power-settings kernel-power-bootimg" on console and now Camera,Bluetooth and Lock Button doesn't work ...
Jun 24 21:30:07 <messerting> X-Fade: Ok, so I should blame my provider. Hm, well, or live with those 2 minutes off..
Jun 24 21:30:23 <X-Fade> messerting: Or just disable that. The clock is fairly stable.
Jun 24 21:31:11 <smhar> will N9 allow the the use of multiple 'Desktops' like N900?
Jun 24 21:31:38 <X-Fade> smhar: There are no desktops as such.
Jun 24 21:31:43 <X-Fade> smhar: no widgets
Jun 24 21:32:25 <smhar> X-Fade, that sucks !!!!! why would they do that?!!
Jun 24 21:32:32 <messerting> X-Fade: ah, good idea. But then I loose the automatic change when I travel abroad, right?
Jun 24 21:33:02 <X-Fade> messerting: Yes, but you are aware of time changes then.
Jun 24 21:33:11 <X-Fade> messerting: Or at least it is likely.
Jun 24 21:33:18 <messerting> yep, true, I hope.. :)
Jun 24 21:33:44 <DocScrutinizer> messerting: you also can go for ntpd
Jun 24 21:34:02 <messerting> DocScrutinizer: yes - easy to setup?
Jun 24 21:34:06 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: If you want to kill battery life :)
Jun 24 21:34:06 <DocScrutinizer> messerting: just if you got frequent connectivity
Jun 24 21:34:36 <angelox> some idea?
Jun 24 21:34:51 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: yeah, I don't think ntpd is particularly suited for mobile with random connectivity
Jun 24 21:34:53 <messerting> DocScrutinizer: pretty frequent, at least once a day.
Jun 24 21:35:11 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: And it prevents the device from sleeping.
Jun 24 21:35:28 <DocScrutinizer> messerting: you could used the ntpd parameter equivalent to the meanwhile binned ntpdate/ntptime
Jun 24 21:36:03 <messerting> prevents from sleeping? err, doesn't sound good
Jun 24 21:36:13 <DocScrutinizer> the best use it each time you set up connection, via a hook in ifup or sth
Jun 24 21:36:37 <DocScrutinizer> messerting: yes, ntpd doesn't care about cpu and network usage
Jun 24 21:36:43 <X-Fade> Or just set your time every time you travel.
Jun 24 21:37:00 <X-Fade> 2 seconds work vs a lot more to set it up properly :)
Jun 24 21:37:06 <messerting> Ok, will see how stable the local clock is, and try to remember to change time on travel
Jun 24 21:37:09 <X-Fade> Fight the right battles.
Jun 24 21:37:34 <messerting> thanks for the input. Will go back and read about the weird N9 news...
Jun 24 21:37:46 <rm_you> weird n9 news?
Jun 24 21:37:53 <DocScrutinizer> messerting: but honestly, I think calling ntpd once every hour or twice a day, to adjust your sysclock and hw-clock is best and most simple
Jun 24 21:37:54 * rm_you just got here
Jun 24 21:38:32 <messerting> DocScrutinizer: agreed, will look into it. Is there a step-by-step wiki available..?
Jun 24 21:38:50 <DocScrutinizer> messerting: you might want to have a look at alarmed app
Jun 24 21:39:05 <DocScrutinizer> ideal for such cron-like scheduling
Jun 24 21:39:45 <messerting> rm_you: yes, weird: "meego is dead, wp7 is the future, developer only n950 phone, oh, and a meego N9 (not really meego, but maemo 5)"
Jun 24 21:39:59 <messerting> DocScrutinizer: ok, will do
Jun 24 21:40:02 <rm_you> oh
Jun 24 21:40:15 <rm_you> so, the original news from a few days ago. k :P
Jun 24 21:40:19 <DocScrutinizer> ntpd -q
Jun 24 21:40:22 <rm_you> was afraid i missed something crazt
Jun 24 21:40:26 <DocScrutinizer> twice a day
Jun 24 21:40:27 <rm_you> *crazy
Jun 24 21:40:44 <messerting> rm_you: eh, yep, I should have said "old news" :)
Jun 24 21:40:46 <DocScrutinizer> disable GSM sync, if your carrier is flaky
Jun 24 21:41:13 <messerting> DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks :)
Jun 24 21:42:37 <angelox|laptop> I'm back with the same question: I installed kernel-power by running "apt-get install kernel-power-settings kernel-power-bootimg" and now Camera,Bluetooth and lock button doesn't work...i installed kernel-power correctly ?
Jun 24 21:42:39 <DocScrutinizer> don't miss on hwclock --systohc --noadjfile immediately after successfull invocation
Jun 24 21:42:45 <DocScrutinizer> messerting: ^
Jun 24 21:43:32 <DocScrutinizer> actulally hwclock --systohc --noadjfile --utc  afaik
Jun 24 21:44:01 <DocScrutinizer> so: ntpd -q && hwclock --systohc --noadjfile --utc  afaik
Jun 24 21:44:28 <DocScrutinizer> might have "typos", so please check
Jun 24 21:44:32 <merlin1991> hm anybody else not able to run qt-creator under ubuntu lucid?
Jun 24 21:44:38 <merlin1991> (talking about the one from the repos)
Jun 24 21:44:49 <messerting> DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks - is it "openntpd" package I need to install?
Jun 24 21:45:02 <DocScrutinizer> I think yes
Jun 24 21:45:48 <DocScrutinizer> make sure ntpd isn't linked in to system init when installing it, though
Jun 24 21:47:58 <DocScrutinizer> you don't want to have ntpd running daemonized all the time, as X-Fade mentioned above
Jun 24 21:48:39 <DocScrutinizer> messerting: may I as who's your GSM carrier?
Jun 24 21:51:54 <messerting> DocScrutinizer: Norwegian carrier, I think it is Netcom (my subscription is to another company, using that network)
Jun 24 21:52:54 <DocScrutinizer> that might explain it
Jun 24 21:53:59 <messerting> DocScrutinizer: Ok, so I installed openntpd and is started ntpd. Should I remove a symlink in /etc/init... or something, right?
Jun 24 21:54:10 <DocScrutinizer> iirc the time message via GSM has a really weird format, and also some unexpected bits. And if you maybe are forwarded to another host or sth... dunno
Jun 24 21:54:47 <DocScrutinizer> messerting: (init) yes
Jun 24 21:54:56 <messerting> DocScrutinizer: the "ntpd" that comes with openntpd doesn't support the -q flag...
Jun 24 21:55:06 <DocScrutinizer> ooops
Jun 24 21:55:30 <DocScrutinizer> so maybe it still has ntpdate or ntptime or sth like that as separate command
Jun 24 21:56:59 <messerting> DocScrutinizer: Hm, only ntp* command is ntpd (according to tab completion)
Jun 24 21:57:05 <DocScrutinizer> from ntpd manpage: >> -q      Exit  the ntpd  just after the first time the clock is set. This behavior mimics that of the ntpdate  pro-               gram, which is to be retired. The -g  and -x  options can be used with this option.
Jun 24 21:58:30 <ShadowJK> openntpd is openbsd's replacement to "real" ntpd. It's far less advanced
Jun 24 21:59:23 <DocScrutinizer> so why we got an openntpd pkg instead of the "real" good stuff
Jun 24 21:59:23 <messerting> Well, I'm removing openntpd now. will rely on the internal clock.
Jun 24 22:05:37 <vi__> s
Jun 24 22:05:46 <vi__> did you guys get that?
Jun 24 22:06:32 <joga> the s?
Jun 24 22:06:34 <vi__> DocScrutinizer: did you get what i just wrote or did my damn connect crap out again?
Jun 24 22:07:05 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-06-25 00:03:10] <vi__> s
Jun 24 22:07:06 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-06-25 00:03:19] <vi__> did you guys get that?
Jun 24 22:07:14 <DocScrutinizer> that's all
Jun 24 22:07:27 <vi__> damnit
Jun 24 22:07:28 <vi__> ok
Jun 24 22:07:32 <NIN101> I saw a discussion about this "asked for lock code after reflash thing" here recently and maybe this information could be useful somehow for somebody: I just flashed roofs and I was asked for it... 
Jun 24 22:07:32 <vi__> here goes again
Jun 24 22:08:00 <vi__> MohammadAG: yo
Jun 24 22:08:08 <vi__> I saw your enhanced lock and almost backflipped with joy.  You asked for 'suggestions'.  If I may be so bold, I suggest a major enhancement would be an option of unlocking with double click of power button.
Jun 24 22:08:21 <DocScrutinizer> NIN101: it been enabled before you flashed?
Jun 24 22:08:25 <NIN101> yes
Jun 24 22:08:26 <vi__> i.e. double click already locks the screen.
Jun 24 22:08:36 <vi__> current I press power once while the screen is locked and it shows the 'lock' screen.
Jun 24 22:08:37 <DocScrutinizer> NIN101: thanks for reporting
Jun 24 22:08:50 <vi__> add an option that allows me to press power button once on lock screen to unlock.
Jun 24 22:09:21 <vi__> tl;dr, map power button to 'unlock' phone on lock screen.
Jun 24 22:09:37 <vi__> thank you for your time and effort.
Jun 24 22:09:42 <vi__> I O U 1 BEER
Jun 24 22:10:35 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG doesn't enjoy beer ;-)
Jun 24 22:11:11 <vi__> uh...milk?
Jun 24 22:11:13 <MohammadAG> who said so? :P
Jun 24 22:11:25 <MohammadAG> double press to unlock? completely doable
Jun 24 22:11:55 <vi__> MohammadAG: i know!
Jun 24 22:11:56 <ShadowJK> is N9 using accelerometer or ts to do it?
Jun 24 22:12:10 <ShadowJK> proximity for sure
Jun 24 22:12:18 <DocScrutinizer> do what?
Jun 24 22:12:22 <vi__> that sucks
Jun 24 22:12:27 <ShadowJK> double-tap unlock
Jun 24 22:12:33 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Jun 24 22:12:35 <vi__> you have to keep ts on all the time
Jun 24 22:13:03 <vi__> what is the quiescent current of a crapacitiv ts?
Jun 24 22:13:15 <DocScrutinizer> good question, sane concept uses lis302 as touchscreen probably has no doubleclick detect
Jun 24 22:13:46 <DocScrutinizer> if they have lis302 or similar
Jun 24 22:14:00 <DocScrutinizer> plus correct hw IRQ line
Jun 24 22:14:04 <ShadowJK> on the order of uA I'd think
Jun 24 22:14:21 <DocScrutinizer> depends
Jun 24 22:14:21 <ShadowJK> does N900 have irq line?
Jun 24 22:14:22 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: you're, as usual, being optimistic!
Jun 24 22:14:23 <ShadowJK> physically
Jun 24 22:14:29 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jun 24 22:14:37 <DocScrutinizer> even 2 ;-D
Jun 24 22:14:39 <javispedro> "worse is good"
Jun 24 22:15:23 <DocScrutinizer> btw N900 has r-ts which doesn't need any power on idle, and also creates irq - usually
Jun 24 22:15:50 <DocScrutinizer> no doubleclick detect though
Jun 24 22:16:18 <DocScrutinizer> so you always wake cpu when device is in your pocket while jogging
Jun 24 22:16:41 <DocScrutinizer> that's why you completely lock the screen
Jun 24 22:17:31 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, double tap afaik
Jun 24 22:17:50 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, from description of N9, it seems it ignores double-tap if it's in pocket (proximity sensor?)
Jun 24 22:18:13 <DocScrutinizer> possible
Jun 24 22:18:19 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, got any pointers to the driver's name?
Jun 24 22:18:32 <DocScrutinizer> which one?
Jun 24 22:18:57 <DocScrutinizer> N9 touchscreen?
Jun 24 22:19:15 <DocScrutinizer> might be interesting
Jun 24 22:19:33 <DocScrutinizer> I've seen something, darn, I forgot
Jun 24 22:20:12 <DocScrutinizer> somebody string'ed the image
Jun 24 22:20:47 <vi__> ok
Jun 24 22:20:49 <vi__> gtg
Jun 24 22:20:49 <SpeedEvil> Interesting 'next sensor in phone' - that's being pushed - I have a sample of a 1.6mm*1.6mm I2C temperature sensor - $1.5@1K
Jun 24 22:20:54 <SpeedEvil> Non-contact
Jun 24 22:21:15 <ShadowJK> "next sensor"?
Jun 24 22:21:25 <DocScrutinizer> non-contact means distance?
Jun 24 22:21:30 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 24 22:21:31 <SpeedEvil> IR
Jun 24 22:21:38 <SpeedEvil> All in a nice easy to use package.
Jun 24 22:21:43 <SpeedEvil> TI (which now seems down)
Jun 24 22:21:47 <DocScrutinizer> cool, thermometer for detecting flu ;-P
Jun 24 22:21:47 <SpeedEvil> I guess for face sensing
Jun 24 22:22:19 <vi__> MohammadAG: also some bro suggested the status bar could be visable in task manager screen.
Jun 24 22:22:20 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: cool indeed
Jun 24 22:22:25 <vi__> food for thought
Jun 24 22:22:26 <DocScrutinizer> seem that contactless swipe sensor?
Jun 24 22:22:30 <vi__> bb
Jun 24 22:22:33 <vi__> :q
Jun 24 22:22:34 <javispedro> know your phone will report you to the WHO directly
Jun 24 22:22:38 <javispedro> s/know/now
Jun 24 22:22:49 * ShadowJK has a "normal" non-IR i2c temp sensor with 0.0625C resolution that can tell the difference between human moving within 2m and human moving away from within 2m
Jun 24 22:23:19 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 24 22:23:38 <ShadowJK> Atleast when the readings are interpreted by human staring at gnuplot :P
Jun 24 22:23:47 <SpeedEvil> http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tmp006.html
Jun 24 22:23:53 <DocScrutinizer> ;-D
Jun 24 22:25:22 <DocScrutinizer> a touchless thermometer of sufficient precision could indeed become a nice gimmick
Jun 24 22:25:50 <ShadowJK> I want one with <10 degree FOV
Jun 24 22:26:14 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: I want a hundred pixel one
Jun 24 22:26:22 <ShadowJK> yeah or that
Jun 24 22:26:32 <SpeedEvil> You can put a hole in front of it.
Jun 24 22:26:33 <ShadowJK> But I decided that actual arrays are too expensive
Jun 24 22:26:36 <SpeedEvil> Of course
Jun 24 22:26:38 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 24 22:26:55 <ShadowJK> though I've seen a 6 pixel one that was kinda affordable
Jun 24 22:26:57 <SpeedEvil> There are some awesome thermal cameras out there.
Jun 24 22:27:09 <Shapeshifter> a 6 pixel what?
Jun 24 22:27:51 <cehteh> http://urfin.soup.io/post/141032053/via-Geek-And-Poke-G
Jun 24 22:27:54 * DocScrutinizer ponders contraception app
Jun 24 22:28:21 <ShadowJK> Shapeshifter, 6 pixel infrared temperature sensor
Jun 24 22:29:10 <ShadowJK> basically 6 IR sensors in one package, with 90 deg vertical and something smaller than 90 deg field-of-view in the other direction
Jun 24 22:29:54 <cehteh> .. and detecting the polarization of the IR ...
Jun 24 22:30:05 <cehteh> dunno whats that good for, but someone will find out :P
Jun 24 22:30:11 <ShadowJK> I've seen people mount them on servos to pan&scan, building up a crude image
Jun 24 22:30:43 <Shapeshifter> ah
Jun 24 22:34:16 <DocScrutinizer> RING RIIINNGG... "Hello?" "Good morning, this is your contraception app, please keep the phone at your ear until the beep ends! Beeeeeeeeeeeep"
Jun 24 22:36:27 <javispedro> it gives you brain cancer because it forces you to stare at the phone for years?
Jun 24 22:40:12 <smhar> can I use latest maemo in N810 device?
Jun 24 22:40:21 <ShadowJK> Maemo5? no
Jun 24 22:40:50 <MohammadAG> There was Mer, and then came MeeGo
Jun 24 22:41:34 <DocScrutinizer> and meego's chances to ever get on N8x0 are... :-S 
Jun 24 22:41:44 <javispedro> oh, it's already there
Jun 24 22:41:50 <DocScrutinizer> really?
Jun 24 22:41:51 <javispedro> it of course depends on your definition of meego.
Jun 24 22:41:53 <DocScrutinizer> oh
Jun 24 22:42:02 <DocScrutinizer> hah
Jun 24 22:43:34 <MohammadAG> Mer seemed like a better candidate for the N8x0
Jun 24 22:44:02 <ShadowJK> Would be probably more sensible to try do a meego core + xfce onto N8x0
Jun 24 22:44:07 <mrdongle> an updated n810 would be great
Jun 24 22:44:10 <mrdongle> N910
Jun 24 22:44:17 <Atarii> woop, just bought an N900, any good starting points?
Jun 24 22:44:28 <mrdongle> congrats Atarii 
Jun 24 22:44:35 <Atarii> thanks :)
Jun 24 22:45:03 <mrdongle> for learning about the device ?
Jun 24 22:45:43 <Atarii> yea, I had a 770 a while back, so just need a refresher really. internettablettalk still good?
Jun 24 22:46:17 <mrdongle> less good than in the 770 days
Jun 24 22:46:17 <javispedro> mostly
Jun 24 22:46:26 <javispedro> touché =)
Jun 24 22:46:52 <ds3> anyone betting on how long the N9/N950 will remain on the market?
Jun 24 22:46:59 <mrdongle> i remember people actually talking bout linuxy stuff on itt
Jun 24 22:47:20 <Atarii> anyone used the modified injection enabled N900 drivers?
Jun 24 22:49:21 <smhar> No one can ever predict Nokia. but from the little I know about N9/N950, they are definitely less good that N900
Jun 24 22:49:54 <cehteh> good is subjective .. they have few advantages (and also some disadvantages)
Jun 24 22:50:49 <mrdongle> microsoft is a cancer
Jun 24 22:51:02 * cehteh thinks 1GB ram is finally sufficient
Jun 24 22:51:21 <javispedro> sufficient for yesterday's handheld!
Jun 24 22:51:41 <cehteh> heh well you can max that out for sure
Jun 24 22:52:00 <cehteh> but the 256MB on the n900 are maxed out when booted ...
Jun 24 22:52:00 <javispedro> I do have to admit that it looks like one of the largest values in a handheld
Jun 24 22:52:09 <derf> The N900 was certainly less good than the N810.
Jun 24 22:52:11 <cehteh> i have constantly around 200MB in swap
Jun 24 22:52:30 <javispedro> and that it's nice to see someone giving importance to RAM instead of more clock speed.
Jun 24 22:52:31 <cehteh> so 1GB means no swapping and still some headroom for more demanding apps
Jun 24 22:53:12 <javispedro> more interesting, large cache!
Jun 24 22:53:18 <cehteh> yes
Jun 24 22:53:42 <mrdongle> the cache size is larger than n900?
Jun 24 22:53:43 <derf> I'm sure the memory bandwidth will still be terrible.
Jun 24 22:54:01 <cehteh> derf: compared to flash bandwidth? :)
Jun 24 22:54:13 <derf> Maybe not _that_ terrible.
Jun 24 22:54:24 <javispedro> derf: it is the same
Jun 24 22:54:58 <cehteh> i have no idea how much the memory bandwidth is .. but mmc/sd is terribly in sense of bandwidth and moreover latency/tps
Jun 24 22:55:30 <cehteh> the n9 with certainly peform 3 times better with the same workload than the n900
Jun 24 22:55:40 <javispedro> ??
Jun 24 22:56:05 <javispedro> no way =)
Jun 24 22:56:10 <SpeedEvil> But it's not got the same workload
Jun 24 22:56:17 <cehteh> hey my n900 is constantly sapping
Jun 24 22:56:20 <cehteh> swapping
Jun 24 22:56:28 <ds3> add more memory 
Jun 24 22:56:29 <ds3> ;)
Jun 24 22:56:36 * SpeedEvil pondered that.
Jun 24 22:56:43 <SpeedEvil> I can't find anyone who will ship the memory
Jun 24 22:56:56 <ds3> SpeedEvil: what size and how many do you need?
Jun 24 22:56:58 <cehteh> hey and wait until people find out how to overclock it to 2GHZ :P
Jun 24 22:57:14 <SpeedEvil> ds3: 168 ball for POP 512M
Jun 24 22:57:36 <ds3> SpeedEvil: for the OMAP3530 POP right?
Jun 24 22:57:40 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 24 22:57:55 <ds3> SpeedEvil: if I get the memory, can you do the bootloader work to support it?
Jun 24 22:57:58 <cehteh> heh .. desoldering the omap isnt hard enough .. lets repackage it :)
Jun 24 22:58:07 <Hurrian> which reminds me. where's the RAM on the N900?\
Jun 24 22:58:09 <ds3> desoldering the OMAP is trivial
Jun 24 22:58:13 <Hurrian> is it inside the SOC?
Jun 24 22:58:19 <cehteh> Hurrian: yes
Jun 24 22:58:20 <SpeedEvil> Hurrian: No - it's soldered on the top
Jun 24 22:58:21 <ds3> Hurrian: it is on TOP of the SoC
Jun 24 22:58:36 <cehteh> well that counts as yes, somewhat :)
Jun 24 22:58:39 <Hurrian> the fffffffffffffff, nokia meant it literally?
Jun 24 22:58:53 <ds3> SpeedEvil: I should be able to get the memory, I just don't have time to do the SW work for it
Jun 24 22:58:59 <Hurrian> "the system memory and onenand are ontop of the omap3 AP"
Jun 24 22:59:11 <ds3> Is the N900 OneNAND?
Jun 24 22:59:16 <Hurrian> yes.
Jun 24 22:59:28 <ds3> Ohhh it is a samsung part
Jun 24 22:59:30 <SpeedEvil> The easiest way to do it is probably to get a new SOC (a 720MHz one) , and in a nitrogen atmosphere reflow the POP RAM on top of it
Jun 24 22:59:45 <SpeedEvil> then reflow this onto the board with hot air and plenty of preheat underneath
Jun 24 22:59:54 <ds3> I can get the part replaced... got one done as a test job already
Jun 24 23:00:08 <cehteh> yes something i do daily in my kitchen :P
Jun 24 23:00:11 <Hurrian> speedevil, in before loads of people order omap3530 samples ;)
Jun 24 23:00:13 <SpeedEvil> I haven't investigated the bootloader hacking required to get it working.
Jun 24 23:00:17 <ds3> is the N900 using the secure feature of the 3430?
Jun 24 23:00:21 <SpeedEvil> You can't sample it
Jun 24 23:00:31 <Hurrian> speedevil, i got one from TI
Jun 24 23:00:34 <ds3> SpeedEvil: you need to get x-loader to properly configure the memory
Jun 24 23:00:43 <SpeedEvil> ds3: Doesn't really matter - once you solder on your own 3530 - you pretty much own it.
Jun 24 23:00:47 <ds3> the ones I can get are plain NAND though so you'll need to redo a few drivers
Jun 24 23:00:48 <SpeedEvil> And yes.
Jun 24 23:01:03 <SpeedEvil> Umm - plain NAND won't work so well.
Jun 24 23:01:09 <SpeedEvil> Most software needs RAM.
Jun 24 23:01:11 <Hurrian> ds3, there's a tiny ROM inside the OMAP3 that downloads code from USB interface
Jun 24 23:01:23 <ds3> no no...there are some minor funny business with the 3430 part that is disabled/unsupported on the 3530 part
Jun 24 23:01:33 <ds3> what's wrong with plain NAND?
Jun 24 23:01:44 <SpeedEvil> ds3: The chip is ROM+RAM
Jun 24 23:02:08 <ds3> SpeedEvil: no no, you misunderstood - I mean I can get RAM + NAND. I was just told the current part is RAM + OneNAND (samsung)
Jun 24 23:02:13 <SpeedEvil> Ah
Jun 24 23:02:21 <ds3> I can even get RAM only
Jun 24 23:02:24 <Hurrian> oh, now i know what those pads on top of the 3530 are for
Jun 24 23:02:25 <SpeedEvil> Alas - it's an idle rumination.
Jun 24 23:02:34 <ds3> but then you need to mod the board to boot off the eMMC
Jun 24 23:02:49 <SpeedEvil> ds3: Even given the parts, and the tools, I'm unlikely to have the time to omplete it.
Jun 24 23:02:53 <Hurrian> ds3, can be done in NOLO
Jun 24 23:02:58 <SpeedEvil> (actually - I probably have the tools)
Jun 24 23:03:01 <ds3> SpeedEvil: ah :( oh well... 
Jun 24 23:03:07 <ds3> I just did basically that on the BB
Jun 24 23:03:10 <SpeedEvil> Though nitrogen reflow would be nice.
Jun 24 23:03:21 <ds3> Hurrian: but no sources for the NOLO...makes it harder
Jun 24 23:03:27 <Hurrian> all we have to do is just feed NOLO a complete EMMC image and flash some other bootloader
Jun 24 23:03:33 <SpeedEvil> ds3: Well - yes - and no. 
Jun 24 23:03:45 <Hurrian> exactly what does nolo do?
Jun 24 23:03:57 <SpeedEvil> ds3: It's just a 'normal' bootloader then - no need to put nonlo bak on
Jun 24 23:03:58 <Hurrian> run the kernel image and display splash?
Jun 24 23:04:00 <ds3> Hurrian: no, there are sysboot pins that may need to be reconfigured so the processor will pull the boot data off the eMMC instead of the NAND
Jun 24 23:04:33 <Hurrian> ds3, ah, sorry, dont know much about ARM boot process
Jun 24 23:04:35 <ds3> is the eMMC on MMC1?
Jun 24 23:04:45 <SpeedEvil> ds3: yes
Jun 24 23:04:54 <ds3> Nice
Jun 24 23:04:55 <SpeedEvil> I don't recall which is which actually
Jun 24 23:05:04 <Hurrian> speedevil, mmc1 should be right
Jun 24 23:05:20 <Hurrian> maemo 5/nolo does something to change around the names
Jun 24 23:05:21 <ds3> Hmmm so Nokia put in extra parts for the uSD slot?
Jun 24 23:06:13 <ds3> MMC1 can operate natively on 3.x volt... MMC2/MMC3 are 1.8V only so they require extra parts for an external slot
Jun 24 23:06:15 <Hurrian> ds3, yes, they just put in a uSD slot despite the N900 having a massive 32GB
Jun 24 23:06:28 <SpeedEvil> mmcblk0 is emmc
Jun 24 23:06:28 <SpeedEvil> But if that means it's mmc0
Jun 24 23:06:28 <SpeedEvil> BB=blackberry?
Jun 24 23:06:28 <SpeedEvil> Oh - beagleboard
Jun 24 23:06:42 <ds3> BB == beagleboard
Jun 24 23:06:53 <SpeedEvil> I don't recall any extra parts along the SD wiring other than ESD protection
Jun 24 23:07:01 <SpeedEvil> There are _lots_ of ESD protection
Jun 24 23:07:15 <Hurrian> ds3, think you can add another SD slot?
Jun 24 23:07:20 <ds3> I suspect they are using software trickery 
Jun 24 23:07:28 <ds3> Hurrian: nope...that requires a new PCB
Jun 24 23:07:32 <SpeedEvil> Hurrian: Sure. Unsolder the EMMC
Jun 24 23:07:38 <ds3> memory is easy to do 
Jun 24 23:07:45 <SpeedEvil> And maybe a teeny amount of software tweaks
Jun 24 23:08:00 <SpeedEvil> In principle you can just do a SDIO card expander
Jun 24 23:08:11 <SpeedEvil> SDIO->7 microSD
Jun 24 23:08:52 <ds3> that should just work assuming there is enough power
Jun 24 23:09:04 <angelox> Can someone help me?
Jun 24 23:09:13 <SpeedEvil> angelox: Do you require CPR?.
Jun 24 23:09:27 <angelox> sorry,cpr ?
Jun 24 23:09:51 <SpeedEvil> It might be a good idea if you ask your question.
Jun 24 23:10:04 <SpeedEvil> Otherwise it's kinda hard to tell. Sorry.
Jun 24 23:10:19 <angelox> I installed kernel-power and my camera,bluetooth and lock button doesn't work correctly now
Jun 24 23:11:22 <angelox> uname -r: 2.6.28.10-power47
Jun 24 23:11:51 <cehteh> thats strange, works for me
Jun 24 23:12:01 * merlin1991 starts to hate the twitter api
Jun 24 23:12:15 <cehteh> installed anything else? .. rebooted?
Jun 24 23:12:53 <angelox> installed with "apt-get install kernel-power-settings kernel-power-bootimg" nothing else..rebooted 4 times
Jun 24 23:15:34 <angelox> remembering that my phone is flashed with rootfs and kernel from PR 1.3,nothing else...
Jun 24 23:20:51 * angelox sings "Help...i need somebody, Help...."
Jun 24 23:22:44 <cehteh> hehe .. no idea
Jun 24 23:22:59 <angelox> should i flash my phone with all parts(not only kernel and rootfs) ?
Jun 24 23:23:14 <cehteh> well using apt-get directly can have some bad sideffects
Jun 24 23:23:37 <cehteh> run a ham update and see if it fixes anything
Jun 24 23:23:53 <cehteh> well and what exactly is wrong?
Jun 24 23:24:17 <angelox> bluetooth gives me errors,camera too and lock button simply doesn't do anything
Jun 24 23:24:24 <cehteh> what errors
Jun 24 23:24:43 <cehteh> try to reinstall the kernel with HAM
Jun 24 23:24:54 <cehteh> prolly some dependency/module not installed? no idea
Jun 24 23:25:01 <angelox> fail in operation (translated from my language, don't know if that's correct)
Jun 24 23:25:07 <cehteh> what tells dmesg?
Jun 24 23:25:10 <angelox> ham? command not found
Jun 24 23:25:28 <ds3> beacon?
Jun 24 23:25:28 <bindi> hildon application manager
Jun 24 23:25:30 <cehteh> hildon application manager .. the slow gui thing
Jun 24 23:25:54 <angelox> ahh ok,that i know :)
Jun 24 23:26:01 <cehteh> at least once in a while and for critical updates you should use it
Jun 24 23:26:23 <cehteh> it sprinkles some fairy dust over apt
Jun 24 23:26:48 <angelox> just to say,i'm running a modified kernel,with kexecboot at the power up...i configured it to use that kernel when i boot maemo
Jun 24 23:27:16 <cehteh> kexec? .. i didnt even known that thats supported on the device
Jun 24 23:27:26 <cehteh> disable kexec, do a cold rebot
Jun 24 23:28:04 <angelox> flashing original kernel works,but if i flash original kernel,and install kernel-power the problem is there too
Jun 24 23:28:24 <angelox> kexec works in all of my friend's phones..only on my one no :( 
Jun 24 23:28:24 <cehteh> sure?
Jun 24 23:28:35 * angelox thinks that his n900 doesn't love his owner 
Jun 24 23:28:36 <cehteh> i never tried kexec
Jun 24 23:29:01 <cehteh> disable it and see
Jun 24 23:29:11 <angelox> disable = flash original kernel
Jun 24 23:29:19 <cehteh> that may be well the cause, missing to initialize some hardware, keep some stale registers whatever
Jun 24 23:29:27 <cehteh> no .. just no kexec
Jun 24 23:29:40 <cehteh> i have power-47 too but no kexec
Jun 24 23:29:51 <cehteh> i didnt even know its ported and in the repositories
Jun 24 23:29:57 <angelox> apt-get install --reinstall kernel kernel-flasher
Jun 24 23:30:06 <angelox> i'll try it ok?
Jun 24 23:30:14 <Hurrian> kexec would be in kexec-tools, and requires kernel-power
Jun 24 23:30:24 <cehteh> disable kexec and do a cold reboot i saied .. is that so hard?
Jun 24 23:30:28 <Hurrian> and angelox, the system is probably not seeing the gpio's
Jun 24 23:30:52 <angelox> Hurrian,maybe,but my friends use the same zImage as mine and work for they
Jun 24 23:30:55 <cehteh> cold reboot == remove battery 
Jun 24 23:30:58 <angelox> cehteh: Cold reboot?
Jun 24 23:31:00 <angelox> ah ok
Jun 24 23:31:08 <cehteh> (after turning it off)
Jun 24 23:31:15 <cehteh> and no charger/usb connected
Jun 24 23:31:29 <angelox> how to disable kexec,i only know do it doing "apt-get install --reinstall kernel kernel-flasher"
Jun 24 23:31:31 <GAN900> Texrat, silly Astros and their lame timezone.
Jun 24 23:31:43 <cehteh> how did you installed kexec?
Jun 24 23:31:50 <cehteh> its for sure not default
Jun 24 23:32:10 <angelox> cehteh: flashing a modified kernel,that haves it
Jun 24 23:32:21 <angelox> btw,i'm not using kexec sorry,it's kexecboot
Jun 24 23:32:31 <angelox> so it goes into kernel iirc
Jun 24 23:32:49 <cehteh> eh?
Jun 24 23:32:55 <cehteh> you know what kexec is?
Jun 24 23:32:59 <angelox> yes
Jun 24 23:33:22 <cehteh> well i cant even find kexec-tools in the repositories 
Jun 24 23:33:23 <angelox> but kexecboot is a bit different isn't?
Jun 24 23:33:35 <angelox> because that's compiled by SHR group...
Jun 24 23:33:49 <angelox> that isn't on the repositories 
Jun 24 23:33:50 <cehteh> i dont know it?
Jun 24 23:33:57 <cehteh> wtf kernel do you use there 
Jun 24 23:34:12 <angelox> i can give you the link of that
Jun 24 23:34:48 <angelox> btw,sorry for saying something wrong,i'm a lot confused with that too (newbie in bootloaders...)
Jun 24 23:35:46 <angelox> so i asked,should i coldflash my N900 to do everything correctly now?
Jun 24 23:37:45 <cehteh> there is a power-47 in some of the community repos (extras-devel? lemme check)
Jun 24 23:38:18 <cehteh> if you install some non working kernel for somewhere else then dont be surprised ... even the normal power kernel comes with no warranty :P
Jun 24 23:40:30 <angelox> you didn't understood
Jun 24 23:40:47 <angelox> s/understood/understand/
Jun 24 23:40:48 <infobot> angelox meant: you didn't understand
Jun 24 23:41:10 <cehteh> well ... i dont care about your problems, i am running the power-47 kernel without problems
Jun 24 23:41:24 <angelox> ok,so should i coldflash my phone?
Jun 24 23:41:36 <angelox> and install power-47 kernel
Jun 24 23:42:20 <cehteh> just deinstall the 3rd party kernel you currently have installed and go back to the stock nokia kernel
Jun 24 23:42:27 <cehteh> and then check if anything works
Jun 24 23:42:59 <angelox> everything will work
Jun 24 23:43:05 <cehteh> ok
Jun 24 23:43:18 <cehteh> so why do you need the power-47 kernel then?
Jun 24 23:43:35 <cehteh> well and then from where did you get it?
Jun 24 23:43:47 <angelox> to use kexec feature
Jun 24 23:43:58 <angelox> i get it by that command i said
Jun 24 23:43:59 <cehteh> m(
Jun 24 23:44:08 <angelox> apt-get install kernel-power-settings kernel-power-bootimg
Jun 24 23:44:09 <cehteh> for what do you need kexec?
Jun 24 23:44:13 <cehteh> http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power
Jun 24 23:44:44 <cehteh> meego?
Jun 24 23:44:45 <angelox> i'm a embedded developer,and i help to develop SHR(or at least,i try) and i need 2 distributions on my phone
Jun 24 23:45:21 <cehteh> ok
Jun 24 23:45:38 <cehteh> well no idea why your phone doesnt work with the power kernel
Jun 24 23:45:44 <angelox> see,i'm now with stock nokia kernel
Jun 24 23:45:50 <cehteh> figure that out .. dmesg etc
Jun 24 23:46:03 <angelox> can you give me the correct steps to install power kernel ? 
Jun 24 23:46:16 <angelox> i'll try again if you can help me
Jun 24 23:46:17 <cehteh> use HAM
Jun 24 23:46:30 <angelox> using extras-devel ?
Jun 24 23:47:02 <cehteh> extras-testing maybe i dont know which repo
Jun 24 23:47:22 <cehteh> yes the page i pasted above tells -testing
Jun 24 23:47:24 <cehteh> read it
Jun 24 23:48:05 <cehteh> Have you problem with bluetooth on v47 and not on v46? See this:
Jun 24 23:48:05 <cehteh> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=764
Jun 24 23:48:48 <angelox> thank you,i installed with -devel so that could be the problem...
Jun 24 23:49:05 <angelox> btw,invalid link
Jun 24 23:49:22 <cehteh> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71879:
Jun 24 23:49:28 <cehteh> well read yourself
Jun 24 23:49:39 <cehteh> i am out
Jun 24 23:49:58 <angelox> ok,thanks by all
Jun 24 23:55:46 <javispedro> even the clock app reminds of the webos
Jun 24 23:56:02 <javispedro> which I guess is nice, cause I was having impure thoughts about the webos UI...
Jun 25 00:08:20 <javispedro> "some implementations of pulseaudio have a difficult time dealign with non-44k frequencies" hmm
Jun 25 00:10:12 <GeneralAntilles> There's a ball player called Wandy Rodriguez.
Jun 25 00:10:35 <GeneralAntilles> I'm pretty sure pronouncing it as "Wand-y" is incorrect.
Jun 25 00:13:03 <mrdongle> i would donate to a faster pulseaudio project
Jun 25 00:13:16 <ShadowJK> heh
Jun 25 00:13:26 <ShadowJK> I have to admit, pulseaudio works pretty darn well on N900
Jun 25 00:13:28 <ShadowJK> compared to like meego
Jun 25 00:13:56 * ShadowJK started his midsummer holiday with fixing a Vista computer, then loading MeeGo on his spare N900
Jun 25 00:15:23 <javispedro> heh
Jun 25 00:15:25 <javispedro> btw
Jun 25 00:15:37 <javispedro> Nokia just said that launchpad n950 application deadline is july 31st
Jun 25 00:15:55 <ShadowJK> launchpad = you're a company?
Jun 25 00:16:09 <javispedro> technically there's launchpad for individuals
Jun 25 00:16:14 <javispedro> but for some reason they hate me
Jun 25 00:16:28 * ShadowJK wonders if he can create a company before 31st next month
Jun 25 00:16:55 <GeneralAntilles> July 31st to give away 92,000k?
Jun 25 00:16:57 <GeneralAntilles> *g*
Jun 25 00:16:59 <ShadowJK> My outside-actual-job activities last year and this year will have volume taking me close to the point where I have to
Jun 25 00:17:08 <javispedro> cause I've been waiting since early this year to get mine approved and yet doc got his application approved on a single overnight
Jun 25 00:17:20 <GeneralAntilles> Email support
Jun 25 00:17:27 <javispedro> did yesterday, no answer yet
Jun 25 00:17:49 <ShadowJK> doc got his approved?
Jun 25 00:18:07 <GeneralAntilles> The bastard.
Jun 25 00:18:11 <javispedro> the one where according to himself he put "blablabla", yes.
Jun 25 00:18:17 <javispedro> _literally_ blablabla
Jun 25 00:18:21 <javispedro> eh, DocScrutinizer? ;)
Jun 25 00:18:54 <ShadowJK> I thought 6 hours ago he was complaining that he has nothing else than "blablabla" to put there and had no possibility of getting approved
Jun 25 00:19:24 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, DocScrutinizer.
Jun 25 00:19:27 <GeneralAntilles> You so silly.
Jun 25 00:19:58 <javispedro> I hereby swear that if ever get the change to edit my 400+ words application, i will delete them all and put "blablabla".
Jun 25 00:20:13 <javispedro> *chance
Jun 25 00:20:18 <ShadowJK> I guess konttori bought a few badgers, coals, sausages and mustard for the Nokians deciding on device approval :P
Jun 25 00:21:47 <javispedro> oh
Jun 25 00:22:26 <ShadowJK> Only finns will know why a badger would be beneficial ;P
Jun 25 00:22:32 <javispedro> funnily enough, gmail-googling I found an email from nokia launchpad apologizing for the delay processing my application... sent on MARCH
Jun 25 00:23:05 <javispedro> "If you have a contact within Forum Nokia, [...], please contact that person in order to expedite the reviewing of your membership application."
Jun 25 00:23:13 <javispedro> oh, I get how this works.
Jun 25 00:23:23 <ShadowJK> lol
Jun 25 00:23:23 <javispedro> where are those badgers and sausages?
Jun 25 00:23:30 <ShadowJK> nepotism :)
Jun 25 00:23:43 <ShadowJK> It's how I'd rule if I ruled the world
Jun 25 00:24:39 <javispedro> wikipedia, you always surprise me.
Jun 25 00:24:44 <ShadowJK> hm?
Jun 25 00:24:45 <javispedro> the Nepotism article has a _list of examples_
Jun 25 00:24:50 <ShadowJK> lol
Jun 25 00:24:54 <javispedro> by country.
Jun 25 00:24:57 <javispedro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism
Jun 25 00:25:13 <ShadowJK> Wouldn't you want wiktionary or something
Jun 25 00:25:38 <javispedro> and miss the list of spaniard nepotism examples? noway!
Jun 25 00:25:39 <Hurrian> http://goput.it/str/hp4.png
Jun 25 00:25:52 <Hurrian> okay, how's that for a lock screen?
Jun 25 00:26:26 <ShadowJK> I was impressed by Meego N900 CE's lock screen
Jun 25 00:26:40 <Hurrian> shadowjk, the drag to lock one?
Jun 25 00:26:43 <ShadowJK> both impressed and frustrated
Jun 25 00:26:45 <ShadowJK> yeah
Jun 25 00:26:54 <Hurrian> it was slow on mine for some reason
Jun 25 00:26:58 <Hurrian> cool nonetheless
Jun 25 00:27:10 <ShadowJK> frustrated because it appeared randomly, impressed by the drag key of unlocking and place key in the lock
Jun 25 00:27:27 <Hurrian> oh yeah, the random appearances
Jun 25 00:27:33 <Hurrian> tis derpy
Jun 25 00:27:36 <ShadowJK> Oh, every animation, every transition are just silk smooth for me
Jun 25 00:27:42 <ShadowJK> atleast when I compare to Maemo5
Jun 25 00:27:50 <Hurrian> animations++
Jun 25 00:28:14 <ShadowJK> First thing I noticed, apps take fucking ages to appear, but you can swipe menus with silk smoothness while waiting :P
Jun 25 00:28:41 <Hurrian> shadowjk, settings is probably the worst offender
Jun 25 00:28:47 <ShadowJK> hm?
Jun 25 00:28:53 <Hurrian> holy fuck is the settings app slow
Jun 25 00:29:11 <ShadowJK> It just seems mostly broken to me
Jun 25 00:29:31 <ShadowJK> "clocks" and calendar took much longer to start than settings
Jun 25 00:29:44 <javispedro> ~seen pupnik
Jun 25 00:29:55 <infobot> pupnik <~pupnik@p54B2A321.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 27d 14h 55m 43s ago, saying: 'o/'.
Jun 25 00:30:16 <ShadowJK> Awesomeness: zypper install gcc make
Jun 25 00:31:01 <ShadowJK> iostat shows about 1.5Mbyte/s of reads while apps are loading, at an average latency/wait of 5ms, but there are 20kbyte/s of writes, at an average latency of 500ms
Jun 25 00:31:17 <ShadowJK> The problem with flash :/
Jun 25 00:32:54 <MohammadAG> javispedro, haven't seen him anywhere lately
Jun 25 00:33:21 <javispedro> yep :S
Jun 25 00:34:28 <jonwil> hi
Jun 25 00:34:50 <javispedro> hi
Jun 25 00:37:42 <Hurrian> http://goput.it/str/2ht.png
Jun 25 00:37:46 <Hurrian> it's sexy time
Jun 25 00:38:01 <Hurrian> MohammadAG , what do you think of my proposed lock screens?
Jun 25 00:39:17 <beford> harmattan?
Jun 25 00:40:05 <MohammadAG> Sexy indeed, where do the media controls go? :P
Jun 25 00:40:17 <Hurrian> wait, i have a screen with that
Jun 25 00:40:23 <Hurrian> http://goput.it/str/hp4.png
Jun 25 00:40:32 <Hurrian> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1038410&postcount=23
Jun 25 00:40:38 <ShadowJK> beford, no, harmattan has always-on screen or something, benefit of oled
Jun 25 00:41:23 <beford> oh, that's new for me, enhaced lockscreen, does it work landscape/portrait?
Jun 25 00:42:47 <ShadowJK> I think it's mockup
Jun 25 00:43:01 <beford> yes, I'm reading the post now heh
Jun 25 00:43:55 <Hurrian> what are we talking about, MAG's app or my mockups?
Jun 25 00:44:50 <Hurrian> anyways, in my mockups i made sure that you can use it with one hand, the controls being available to your hands either in one side or on all sides
Jun 25 00:44:53 <beford> your mockups for MohammadAG app :P
Jun 25 00:45:01 <Hurrian> anyone like it?
Jun 25 00:46:02 <Hurrian> anyways, a portrait unlock screen would likely look a lot like the iPhone's unlock screen
Jun 25 00:46:05 <merlin1991> Hurrian: where did you get that wallpaper from / is it available?
Jun 25 00:46:13 <Hurrian> merlin1991: wallbase.cc
Jun 25 00:46:22 <ShadowJK> Yeah, I'd like media controls on lock screen. That'd be awesome
Jun 25 00:46:42 <beford> looks nice Hurrian 
Jun 25 00:46:47 <Hurrian> :)
Jun 25 00:47:26 <Hurrian> MohammadAG , if you'd like a slider instead of a tap-to-unlock, i can design that too
Jun 25 00:47:41 <merlin1991> hm the tagcloud on wallbase.cc, I guess the main users are male
Jun 25 00:48:18 <Hurrian> http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1112640
Jun 25 00:51:17 <merlin1991> Hurrian: I think there should be some sort of border between the "title bar" time & date and the mafw controls
Jun 25 00:51:34 <merlin1991> also whatabout fading the notification area a lil towards the edge?
Jun 25 00:53:43 <Hurrian> ah, ok
Jun 25 00:54:23 <Hurrian> i think the mafw controls will be fine as the date+time bar shouldn't respond to taps
Jun 25 00:55:04 <Hurrian> however, double tapping on the mafw bar (except for the play/pause prev/next area) will unlock and open the media player
Jun 25 00:56:54 <ShadowJK> So my use case is this: At work I am frequently in a high-noise environment. I have professional hearing protection cups, with audio-input. I often connect N900 to audio-input. When someone wants to talk to me, I either press volume-down on N900 often enough to mute, or rip out the cable. Would be cool to be able to pause it quickly :-)
Jun 25 00:58:01 <Hurrian> shadowjk, i wanted something like hold+ on my psp - you can control the music even when it's locked
Jun 25 00:58:19 <Hurrian> probably the solution would be in the camera button
Jun 25 00:58:27 <Hurrian> a full press maybe
Jun 25 00:58:31 <Hurrian> when lock
Jun 25 00:58:31 <javispedro> ShadowJK: "headphone daemon"?
Jun 25 00:58:41 <javispedro> or bus daemon or whatever it was called
Jun 25 00:58:56 <Hurrian> merlin1991 : http://goput.it/str/wwa.png
Jun 25 01:03:01 <MohammadAG> <ShadowJK> Yeah, I'd like media controls on lock screen. That'd be awesome
Jun 25 01:03:14 <MohammadAG> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1038328&postcount=1
Jun 25 01:03:17 <ShadowJK> actually I should get some avrcp thing
Jun 25 01:03:52 <Hurrian> MohammadAG : not very viewable without a dark overlay on the background ;)
Jun 25 01:04:00 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, a sliding design would be interesting :)
Jun 25 01:04:08 <Hurrian> sure, coming right up :)
Jun 25 01:06:33 <MohammadAG> k, let's try a quick mockup
Jun 25 01:09:48 <Hurrian> http://goput.it/9tt.png
Jun 25 01:10:45 <MohammadAG> let's try this :D
Jun 25 01:10:46 <Hurrian> MohammadAG : done the slider mockup :)
Jun 25 01:20:45 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, http://i52.tinypic.com/2cosrcl.jpg
Jun 25 01:21:33 * MohammadAG ponders how to implement that slide to unlock
Jun 25 01:22:12 <Hurrian> MAG :)
Jun 25 01:22:23 <Hurrian> now, can you custom-style the unlock button?
Jun 25 01:22:35 <MohammadAG> sure
Jun 25 01:22:38 <Hurrian> i think it would look better if it was flat black and translucent
Jun 25 01:22:43 <MohammadAG> familiar with Qt Stylesheets?
Jun 25 01:22:49 <Hurrian> uhh, nope
Jun 25 01:22:52 <MohammadAG> or at least the colours
Jun 25 01:23:12 <Hurrian> i know jack about the following: CSS, JS, C, C++, Python
Jun 25 01:23:16 <MohammadAG> that's just background-color: rgba(100, 100, 100, 150) in the pic
Jun 25 01:23:34 <MohammadAG> surely you know the colours you want :p
Jun 25 01:23:39 <Hurrian> MAG, shouldn't it be 0,0,0,200
Jun 25 01:23:47 <Hurrian> black + translucency
Jun 25 01:25:17 <Hurrian> on a side note, hmm, i wonder how you'll implement the slide
Jun 25 01:25:50 <Hurrian> i guess the slide position corresponds to a number, say 9000, and when the slide gets to 9000, it sends the unlock command
Jun 25 01:26:12 <MohammadAG> well, I don't think I can style the stock Qt slider
Jun 25 01:26:35 <Hurrian> hmm, and the slide position should only increment/decrement by 1, so that you don't just press the words "slide to unlock" and it'll unlock
Jun 25 01:27:20 <Hurrian> MAG, would this help? http://www.qtcentre.org/threads/26895-Slider-Style-sheet
Jun 25 01:28:03 <MohammadAG> thanks!
Jun 25 01:28:51 <MohammadAG> http://i56.tinypic.com/11hqfcg.jpg
Jun 25 01:28:58 <MohammadAG> is that the colour you wanted?
Jun 25 01:29:23 <Hurrian> Yes!
Jun 25 01:30:06 <Hurrian> whee cssu maemo16 push here we gogogo!
Jun 25 01:30:46 <MohammadAG> nah, the lockscreen stays outside the CSSU since we can install it from extras
Jun 25 01:31:04 <Hurrian> k
Jun 25 01:31:30 <MohammadAG> should I make the top colour solid or should I keep it as a gradient?
Jun 25 01:31:51 <Hurrian> solid
Jun 25 01:32:17 <Hurrian> you know, like the top and bottom boxes in a movie ;)
Jun 25 01:32:25 <Hurrian> so yeah, make it like the bottom
Jun 25 01:32:57 * MohammadAG saves this in his IRC logs
Jun 25 01:32:58 <MohammadAG> background: qlineargradient(spread:pad, x1:0.011, y1:0, x2:0, y2:1, stop:0 rgba(0, 0, 0, 255), stop:1 rgba(36, 36, 36, 0))
Jun 25 01:33:53 <javispedro> the CSS abuse from qt is spectacular
Jun 25 01:34:48 <MohammadAG> lol
Jun 25 01:35:38 <javispedro> still, I guess there's a long way until we get to the "filter: progid:RandomMicrosoftCrap.DirectX.Transform(morecrap)"
Jun 25 01:36:27 <MohammadAG> hmm, the button turned out darker for some reason
Jun 25 01:37:23 <Hurrian> MohammadAG , which button, the MAFW controls?
Jun 25 01:37:46 <Hurrian> i mean the MAFW Now Playing aread?
Jun 25 01:38:01 <MohammadAG> no, sec
Jun 25 01:38:49 <MohammadAG> http://i54.tinypic.com/21ch28p.jpg
Jun 25 01:38:58 <Hurrian> ah
Jun 25 01:39:13 <Hurrian> and both are rgba(0,0,0,200) right?
Jun 25 01:39:18 <Hurrian> that's... odd
Jun 25 01:39:53 <MohammadAG> oh
Jun 25 01:39:54 <MohammadAG> silly me
Jun 25 01:40:00 <MohammadAG> one's 100 and the other is 200
Jun 25 01:42:13 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, http://i55.tinypic.com/b9gf8o.jpg
Jun 25 01:43:50 <Hurrian> better :) planning on adding the padding to the top?
Jun 25 01:44:03 <Hurrian> it shouldn't be that close to the screen edge
Jun 25 01:44:32 <MohammadAG> thought about it, but the bezel on the N900 makes it look good :P
Jun 25 01:45:40 <Hurrian> k
Jun 25 01:46:12 <MohammadAG> lemme up a binary
Jun 25 01:46:25 <MohammadAG> http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/enhanced-lockscreen
Jun 25 01:46:34 <MohammadAG> ignore the 1MB size, it's cause I didn't remove the old wallpaper
Jun 25 01:47:26 <the_lord> MohammadAG: any chance to help me with my camera-app not letting me use the internal memory?
Jun 25 01:47:56 <MohammadAG> did you ask in nicolai's thread?
Jun 25 01:49:30 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, the lockscreen reminds me of Harmattan for some reason
Jun 25 01:49:45 <Hurrian> that's odd, i've never seen harmattan's lockscreen before
Jun 25 01:49:50 <MohammadAG> probably cause of this http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/08/10x08108h3434tf.jpg
Jun 25 01:50:33 <Hurrian> isn't that meego's home screen?
Jun 25 01:50:49 <MohammadAG> yeah, but they look similar
Jun 25 01:51:01 <MohammadAG> that was probably Harmattan 0.1
Jun 25 01:51:30 <the_lord> MohammadAG: which thread?
Jun 25 01:51:31 <Hurrian> now MAG, time to implement the message count?
Jun 25 01:51:48 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, no idea how tbh :p
Jun 25 01:51:54 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, got the slider handle?
Jun 25 01:52:08 <Hurrian> wait, lemme get it out of photoshop
Jun 25 01:52:31 <MohammadAG> the_lord, sec
Jun 25 01:52:43 <MohammadAG> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70870
Jun 25 01:53:48 <Hurrian> MAG: http://goput.it/qay.png
Jun 25 01:54:26 <MohammadAG> did you try the binary btw?
Jun 25 01:54:43 <Hurrian> nyet, lemme dl and run it
Jun 25 01:56:11 <Hurrian> whoa
Jun 25 01:56:13 <Hurrian> that's cool
Jun 25 01:56:33 <Hurrian> however, i have no song playing and it just says unknown song unknown artist
Jun 25 01:56:37 <the_lord> MohammadAG: let me see
Jun 25 01:56:54 <Hurrian> that bar should be hidden when there's no song playing
Jun 25 01:57:43 <Hurrian> nice unlock animation BTW
Jun 25 01:58:19 <mrdongle> finally cell phones can translate text in your enviroment: http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2010/05/translate-real-world-with-google.html
Jun 25 01:58:51 <Hurrian> MAFW controls are working properly, that's a plus
Jun 25 01:59:50 <Hurrian> MAG, all you need to do now is custom-style the buttons
Jun 25 02:00:21 <Hurrian> when i press them, the GTK buttons appear and it's ugly
Jun 25 02:02:08 <Hurrian> http://goput.it/2ep.png
Jun 25 02:02:12 <Hurrian> something like this i guess
Jun 25 02:10:08 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, mind looking at /usr/share/themes/alpha/mediaplayer?
Jun 25 02:10:19 <MohammadAG> see if you can make a pause icon similar to the prev/next icons
Jun 25 02:12:05 <Hurrian> k
Jun 25 02:12:12 <mrdongle> LULZSEC: "If President Obama wears a shoe on his head throughout the entirety of his next big speech, we will cease fire on all targets forever."
Jun 25 02:15:32 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, slider done, you can pull in the latest binary
Jun 25 02:16:01 <mrdongle> the joke has an error though
Jun 25 02:16:02 <mrdongle> since there's no guarantee that any person or group will never do anything in the name of 'lulzsec'
Jun 25 02:18:16 <Hurrian> MAG: slider works, not very smooth though, and you still need to put in the fading text
Jun 25 02:18:43 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, that would be Qt, I'm not sure why the stock slider is slow :/
Jun 25 02:19:32 <mrdongle> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20003431-1.html   makeup that fools face recognition systems
Jun 25 02:20:06 <lolcat> mrdongle: It is a guy in #mtgox trolling with the name lulzecuriti
Jun 25 02:20:12 <lolcat> or smthing
Jun 25 02:20:34 <mrdongle> oh
Jun 25 02:21:36 <Hurrian> http://goput.it/6ey.png
Jun 25 02:21:47 <Hurrian> MohammadAG : remade the pause icon
Jun 25 02:22:42 <MohammadAG> thanks Hurrian 
Jun 25 02:23:29 <Hurrian> hey MAG, the slider doesn't go back to the start should you stop dragging it ;P
Jun 25 02:24:29 <Hurrian> oh, and the slider generally lags behind the finger, you may want to work on that first
Jun 25 02:24:43 <MohammadAG> <MohammadAG> Hurrian, that would be Qt, I'm not sure why the stock slider is slow :/
Jun 25 02:26:13 <Hurrian> :(
Jun 25 02:26:14 <the_lord> MohammadAG: nope, nothing there to fix my problem, it's only with the internal memory
Jun 25 02:28:15 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, can you do the same to the play button?
Jun 25 02:29:24 <Hurrian> sure
Jun 25 02:30:12 <Hurrian> MohammadAG , what's a QT tickInterval wrt qslider?
Jun 25 02:30:25 <Hurrian> http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qslider.html#tickInterval-prop
Jun 25 02:30:49 <Hurrian> http://www.qtcentre.org/archive/index.php/t-16003.html
Jun 25 02:30:59 <Hurrian> see the last post on qtcentre, might help
Jun 25 02:32:07 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, the ticks under each value
Jun 25 02:34:05 <Hurrian> ah
Jun 25 02:34:29 <Hurrian> MohammadAG : http://goput.it/3g4.png
Jun 25 02:34:47 <Hurrian> that's the play button
Jun 25 02:38:46 <Hurrian> quoting warhawk007 on TMO: Is it possible to hide the "Now Playing" notification when Media Player is closed and reappear only when Media Player is open? This would add a more polished look. Just my humble opinion.
Jun 25 02:43:01 <MohammadAG> MAFW can run in the background without the mediaplayer
Jun 25 02:44:59 <Hurrian> ah
Jun 25 02:45:00 <Hurrian> k
Jun 25 02:45:54 <Hurrian> hide it when it can't see any song then, e.g. right after you start up so it wont show unknown song unknown artist
Jun 25 02:49:07 <MohammadAG> I'll check if there's a renderer in the next version
Jun 25 02:52:33 <MohammadAG> gotta hit the sack for now :p
Jun 25 02:57:06 <Hurrian> k
Jun 25 02:58:17 <Hurrian> http://goput.it/6wg.png
Jun 25 02:58:28 <Hurrian> since a lot of people are asking for a big clock, there it is
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 25 02:59:57 2011