**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 30 02:59:57 2011 Jun 30 04:15:29 * divan had a lot of sex with WeTab OBS build service.. The words build system ever and looks like almost unmaintained. Jun 30 04:16:00 night was soo long :) Jun 30 04:16:19 s/words/worst/ Jun 30 04:19:56 Gee - fighting with a build service counts as sex? I'm a stud, and I didn't even know! Jun 30 04:43:06 Jaffa: and the next day corporate security is knocking on my door asking for it ;) Jun 30 04:50:28 Jaffa, they want your N950 back? Jun 30 04:50:37 Er, s/Jaffa/frals Jun 30 04:51:22 * GAN900 rewatching season 13 of South Park reminds me that Cartman's Poker Face is probably the greatest cover ever. Jun 30 05:18:18 GAN900: who knows, i guess by the time im fired none will care thou ;) Jun 30 05:18:41 GAN900: and mine is slightly different than the DDP ones ;( Jun 30 05:18:55 512MB, eh? :P Jun 30 05:19:22 nah Jun 30 05:19:34 Purple? Jun 30 05:19:41 just says property of nokia and some other crap Jun 30 05:19:45 Ah, yeah Jun 30 05:19:57 Still got that RX-51 in a drawer here. Jun 30 05:20:07 * GAN900 should send it back to Peter. Jun 30 05:31:05 hmm am i supposed to be able to import my contacts from n900 over bluétooth to n950? its not seeing the n900, while regular pairing went fine Jun 30 05:32:16 so is the new terminal app on n950 any good? Jun 30 05:33:30 it looked good while i was doing apt-cache search git Jun 30 05:33:38 what is there to look out for? Jun 30 05:33:47 im really really liking the new media player Jun 30 05:34:12 it has favorites and a very nice ux flow between activities and use cases Jun 30 05:36:04 macmaN: n900 -> n950 contacts over bt should work fine Jun 30 05:36:13 macmaN: saw someone do it yesterday at the meetup Jun 30 05:38:30 hrm Jun 30 05:38:44 frals: who are you irl, are you in the meetup list? Jun 30 05:44:18 hrm so whats wrong with my contact sync i wonder Jun 30 05:49:01 ahh, initiating it from n900 side worked Jun 30 05:49:22 through the totally intuitive "Get Contacts" menu item in N900 Contacts menu Jun 30 06:12:16 macmaN: yes ;) Jun 30 06:12:20 macmaN: Nick Jun 30 06:16:14 cool Jun 30 07:39:54 hi all Jun 30 07:40:35 someone can tell me how to enable/disable screen dimming and blanking with a shell command line ? Jun 30 07:41:54 the appropriate values to pass to dbus-send would be great Jun 30 07:44:48 moo all Jun 30 07:45:18 RST38h, STOP! Mjolnir time! http://pics.livejournal.com/no_detective/pic/000e7ch8 Jun 30 07:47:21 Morning, all Jun 30 07:47:26 \o Jun 30 07:49:38 Moo, Jaffa Jun 30 07:50:56 Jaffa: I know this sounds stupid, but how do I edit the Meego Wiki page? Need to add a link to the web page Jun 30 07:51:18 RST38h, log in, click edit? Jun 30 07:51:47 When I click on LOG IN, it moves me directly to my account settings Jun 30 07:51:55 i.e. I appear to be logged in Jun 30 07:53:11 mece, why does he have a handbag? Jun 30 07:54:22 Morning Jade. Jun 30 07:54:25 (joking btw) Jun 30 07:54:26 Jaffa: Jun 30 07:54:56 RST38h: Log out. There's a bug with the credentials sharing with MediaWiki Jun 30 07:55:06 RST38h: Log out and back in again and you should be good to go Jun 30 07:56:10 Termana, I believe that is his hammer, mjolnir :) Jun 30 07:56:30 Jaffa: Aye aye Jun 30 08:04:59 morning Jun 30 08:05:26 hi MohammadAG Jun 30 08:05:56 MohammadAG: may I ask, why are you so involved in QT on meego now? Jun 30 08:06:09 what was the reason to start using QT? Jun 30 08:06:33 I'm involved in Qt on MeeGo? Jun 30 08:06:36 are you working on a specific app? Jun 30 08:07:18 you seem to write here a lot regrding qt 4.7.1 Jun 30 08:07:21 and such Jun 30 08:07:42 I mean you where the one asking to switch to 4.8 in the cssu, right? Jun 30 08:08:10 asking? no, I ran 4.8 for a day Jun 30 08:09:14 ok, so you are using qt on maemo to develop a media player - right? Jun 30 08:09:30 it's on git and tmo Jun 30 08:09:41 right now, I don't have any projects at hand Jun 30 08:09:58 may I ask why did you start writing a media player in qt? Jun 30 08:10:14 I mean , I didnt see this here Jun 30 08:10:28 That was December Jun 30 08:10:37 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org Jun 30 08:10:43 find the post there Jun 30 08:10:54 o ok Jun 30 08:11:54 I am waiting for the guy that wrote pypackager to show up Jun 30 08:12:45 I used the netmon to log cellular data, but need to work on the logging Jun 30 08:13:25 I right , that when I reach the right busstation, I get the same cellid Jun 30 08:14:04 so my app may seek to "see" when cellids change in a known order then , alert me Jun 30 08:14:19 and I can leave it on all the time Jun 30 08:17:02 now it is getting on my nerves... is there anything I can do about facebook not uploading pictures (built in share thing) Jun 30 08:17:28 delete the account, and readd it Jun 30 08:17:42 chem|st: it stopped working for me a while ago, deleting all your accounts and recreating it worked for me. Jun 30 08:18:05 I should push the sociality update Jun 30 08:18:20 delete the account and NOT readding it should work too, shouldn't i_ Jun 30 08:18:23 ? Jun 30 08:18:36 hmm, LWN editors are hinting that they would like to review the N950 Jun 30 08:19:29 alterego: 23. May I can tell... Jun 30 08:19:39 so deleting the share account.. Jun 30 08:19:55 alterego: btw how is columbus doing? Jun 30 08:20:24 chem|st: not bad, been refactoring it and getting it ready to move to QML Jun 30 08:20:34 Whilst working on the QML Ux Jun 30 08:20:48 *facepalm* Jun 30 08:21:00 Still got quite a lot to do though Jun 30 08:21:29 chem|st, why the facepalm? Jun 30 08:21:58 mece: I changed my password... and the share account has nothing to do with the other accounts... Jun 30 08:22:15 Heh Jun 30 08:22:33 alterego: you did awesome with the first devel, keep up the good work! Jun 30 08:23:55 Thanks :) Jun 30 08:24:18 alterego: as you were asking or thinking about doing a pay-for-app, if you keep the current setup free and add some awesomeness to a pay-for I am good with it^^ was using it on the last turn to find the vessel in the harbour and to find the harbour again Jun 30 08:25:05 and did some waypoint tryouts Jun 30 08:25:48 it crashes way to often as to being reliable for proper tracking Jun 30 08:26:28 pabs3: sure why not? Jun 30 08:26:34 Still crashing? Jun 30 08:26:41 I thought I fixed that :) Jun 30 08:26:55 Oh, maybe I didn't release the new version. Jun 30 08:27:02 lol Jun 30 08:27:32 :) Jun 30 08:27:50 macmaN: can you hook that up (I guess mail lwn@lwn.net)? anyways, article is here: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/449552/ce2407f8ccdcda48/ Jun 30 08:27:51 I should be better at maintaining the new version. Jun 30 08:28:04 for both m5, harmattan and meego Jun 30 08:28:22 As well as supporting tablet form factor and desktop too. Jun 30 08:32:26 FB works again Jun 30 08:32:54 alterego: don't remember any upgrades^^ Jun 30 08:33:12 pabs3: heh, i wasnt expecting a review request, but i might have a paid approach to the review as well, so i might kill two birds one stone Jun 30 08:33:44 DocScrutinizer: did the SIP guy die finally? Jun 30 08:34:20 this sdk installer is pretty nice piece of work methinks Jun 30 08:36:40 macmaN: ok cool Jun 30 08:38:19 pabs3: you just motivated me to make a 1-year subscription to lwn.net Jun 30 08:38:21 :) Jun 30 08:38:31 nice :) Jun 30 08:38:58 * pabs3 thanks HP for sponsoring the Debian group subscription Jun 30 08:44:16 Morning Jun 30 08:46:29 khertan! Jun 30 08:46:48 I need your help Jun 30 08:47:06 I used the netmon python code to log cellualr info Jun 30 08:47:18 when I ride the bus from home to work Jun 30 08:47:41 I see error in opening the dbus Jun 30 08:48:35 i'll be back in 15 min Jun 30 08:48:42 up the log and ll look Jun 30 08:48:50 I will paste the lines Jun 30 08:52:56 Wow Jun 30 08:53:03 Dell hired some pretty bright people... Jun 30 08:53:05 "'I wouldn't say it's perfectly indestructible, but it is pretty much indestructible,' Joe Stewart, director of malware research at Dell" Jun 30 08:53:33 Would you say it's completely massively indestructible? No, just almost quite positively indestructible. Jun 30 08:54:34 rofl Jun 30 08:54:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfBWds4HChI - on unbreakability (phones) Jun 30 09:00:13 khertan: http://dpaste.com/561220/ Jun 30 09:05:23 how can I paste more code then dpaste? Jun 30 09:05:28 more lines Jun 30 09:06:14 cloudyLights: org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable isn't a interface of object : /com/nokia/phone/net Jun 30 09:06:34 cloudyLights: what are you trying to get ? Jun 30 09:06:34 right Jun 30 09:07:19 in http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/netmon/0.9-1/ Jun 30 09:07:27 I downloaded the source Jun 30 09:07:51 then used the netmongui.py to log the cellular data Jun 30 09:08:03 this file is too big for dpaste Jun 30 09:08:25 in that file I get these errors Jun 30 09:08:37 but the program still works Jun 30 09:09:24 may I show my additions to that file/ Jun 30 09:09:26 ? Jun 30 09:09:30 cloudyLights: what are you trying to do ? get the id of cellular towel ? Jun 30 09:09:50 I want to log every change in the cellular data Jun 30 09:09:59 import dbus bus = dbus.SystemBus() proxy = bus.get_object("com.nokia.phone.net","/com/nokia/phone/net",False) cell_info = proxy.get_registration_status(dbus_interface="Phone.Net") print "complete cell info" cell_info print cell_info[2] Jun 30 09:10:07 give you the cell towel id Jun 30 09:10:53 thanks Jun 30 09:11:30 cloudyLights: did you read : http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Using_Location_API Jun 30 09:11:40 and then I need to look at these: Jun 30 09:11:58 print str(time())+" mnc: "+str(mnc)+" mcc: "+str(mcc)+" cellid: "+str(cellid)+" lac: "+str(lac)+" decibel: "+str(decibel) Jun 30 09:12:01 use it to get notified of change and use a dbus call for cell_info as you can't get it in python Jun 30 09:12:23 I mean, maybe any of these fields will change Jun 30 09:13:05 so I setup a dict for the values and test if any of them change from one pool to the other Jun 30 09:13:55 netmon uses: Jun 30 09:13:58 status, lac, cellid, mnc, mcc, nettype, netservices, neterror = self.cellinfo.registration_status() Jun 30 09:14:15 and I can keep these and verify they didnt change Jun 30 09:14:24 if they do change print them out Jun 30 09:14:28 http://pastebin.com/fLzusntG <<< a untested example Jun 30 09:15:14 you are trying to locate yourself using the cellular information ? Jun 30 09:15:17 as I get all the info using dbus , why would I need libcbsms? Jun 30 09:15:23 yes Jun 30 09:15:42 so you just need cellular towel id ? right ? Jun 30 09:17:29 looks ok Jun 30 09:17:47 I need to track any cellular data change Jun 30 09:18:03 then figure out what fields help me know I arrived Jun 30 09:18:15 cellid is most helpfull Jun 30 09:18:28 but lac may also be used Jun 30 09:19:25 cloudyLights: hum ... lac isn't available for wcdma Jun 30 09:20:10 I am soon going to eat , but I will be back Jun 30 09:20:32 I basiclly need to run that line: Jun 30 09:20:39 status, lac, cellid, mnc, mcc, nettype, netservices, neterror = self.cellinfo.registration_status() Jun 30 09:26:07 this cellinfo is: http://dpaste.com/561227/ Jun 30 09:40:28 morning Jun 30 09:46:11 moo lardman Jun 30 09:46:57 hi RST38h Jun 30 10:01:38 "We hope you enjoy your flight!" ? Jun 30 10:01:40 Eh? Jun 30 10:02:36 Also wtf'd at that Jun 30 10:02:58 I'm guessing he copied an email about a conference invitation and just replaced parts of it Jun 30 10:03:27 Hah, maybe. Jun 30 10:03:34 alterego, what's that from? Jun 30 10:04:50 alterego: I raised an eyebrow, but assumed it was a sort of "it's a bit like a booking confirmation" Jun 30 10:04:53 so MohammadAG you got one anyway? Jun 30 10:05:28 frals, not yet, no Jun 30 10:06:52 Yeah Jun 30 10:07:33 Anyway, I don't want to see a template email, I want to see the damn email :) Jun 30 10:08:31 likewise Jun 30 10:08:40 alterego: :) Jun 30 10:08:57 * Jaffa has the DDP page open, nothing on it for him yet :-( Jun 30 10:09:15 Jaffa: what do you mean? Jun 30 10:09:25 I saw your name on the list, what else are you looking at? Jun 30 10:09:35 * alterego creates a wiki page in preparation Jun 30 10:10:14 I don't want to see any email, I want my name on the list :P Jun 30 10:10:54 Can't anyone edit that page and put their name on it? Jun 30 10:11:06 yeah that was what I was thinking Jun 30 10:11:14 lol Jun 30 10:11:16 or some malicious editing to get people's hopes up Jun 30 10:11:28 which would not be nice Jun 30 10:11:37 Something tells me Quim probably has a private list and he isn't reliant on that list Jun 30 10:12:24 I'm sure that's true. But the page is an invitation to mischief. Jun 30 10:12:27 lardman: There's a URL for the Forum Nokia Device Distribution Programme. It was used for N900 DDP (IIRC) Jun 30 10:12:32 Plus, you would be able to see the douchebag that did it Jun 30 10:12:40 (in the edit history) Jun 30 10:12:40 Jaffa: ah ok Jun 30 10:13:12 lardman: https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP - I've no idea if that'll be used to actually distribute the devices, but I'm guessing it will be. Jun 30 10:13:57 need a premium developer account for that? Jun 30 10:14:35 lardman: No idea. Does it open with your account? Jun 30 10:14:46 nope, says I need to register for a premium one Jun 30 10:14:55 Ah Jun 30 10:15:08 Maybe they won't use that, then. Or there's still work to do. Or ... Jun 30 10:15:17 no worries, I'll wait and see Jun 30 10:15:45 It's like waiting for Willie Wonka's Golden Ticket. Jun 30 10:15:56 perhaps I should have registered for a premium one, or there are two layers or something - the whole Nokia developer registration process was rather confusing about what I was registering for Jun 30 10:18:12 hey guys Jun 30 10:18:28 i just downloaded the latest offline installer for the qt sdk but it has no maemo options Jun 30 10:18:51 you're not the only one I've heard that from Jun 30 10:19:00 really?? Jun 30 10:19:01 I wonder if they dropped support for it Jun 30 10:19:23 how the f*** am i supposed to get qt 4.7.3 for qtcreator then? right now it builds for 4.6.2 Jun 30 10:19:30 :| Jun 30 10:19:53 4.7.3? 4.7 is the last official version Jun 30 10:20:08 well right now my qtcreator builds for 4.6.2 Jun 30 10:20:12 :/ Jun 30 10:21:01 Did you get it from developer.nokia.com/swipe? Jun 30 10:21:05 Or qt.nokia.com? Jun 30 10:21:12 qt.nokia.com Jun 30 10:21:17 That's why then ;) Jun 30 10:21:59 alterego, i am no developing for the n9 Jun 30 10:23:12 alterego, does that have the 4.7 for maemo in it too? Jun 30 10:24:35 ahhhh i see it does .... thnx :) Jun 30 10:24:42 typical nokia confusion Jun 30 10:24:53 lardman: hi Jun 30 10:25:14 hi cloudyLights Jun 30 10:25:16 ok, I used this http://dpaste.com/561253/ Jun 30 10:25:38 technically you can install two SDKs, you'll end up with one creator and more targets Jun 30 10:26:02 so I am looking for the cellid change and loging it Jun 30 10:26:16 ok, I am thinking to do this: Jun 30 10:26:36 when you install this app it will alwas log the last four cellids Jun 30 10:27:10 when you decide to MARK a bus station , is when you are at that location Jun 30 10:27:48 I will then have the previous cell ids and can establish the pattern Jun 30 10:28:02 when this pattern happens again- I will alert the user Jun 30 10:28:04 ok? Jun 30 10:28:07 cloudyLights: openbmap will give you lat lon lookups for cellids Jun 30 10:28:24 In Israel? Jun 30 10:28:27 I'd be tempted to allow the user to grab some data from there and store it Jun 30 10:28:38 cloudyLights: assuming Israelis have added to it Jun 30 10:29:18 in any case we should go for a generic library/daemon from which to obtain the data so that more than one app can use it Jun 30 10:29:31 so this kind of program , will always run Jun 30 10:29:37 * Jaffa has just got an email Jun 30 10:29:45 "A Nokia N950 is waiting for you" Jun 30 10:29:48 and will allways alert on that petern Jun 30 10:29:57 Jaffa ftw Jun 30 10:30:13 how much$$ ? Jun 30 10:30:18 >600$? Jun 30 10:30:34 cloudyLights: possibly - I see something along the lines of if you have a net connection then download data for the present location and thereabouts; if you don't have a connection but the gps is on, log the current location and the cellid Jun 30 10:30:45 it's a dev device, free until the loan ends Jun 30 10:31:46 cloudyLights: so this is the location portion, Proximus will have an api that you can use to wake your app when you get near a given location, once I finish writing it Jun 30 10:32:42 dev device == no firmware update. Jun 30 10:32:45 ever. Jun 30 10:33:08 I'd prove you wrong, if I had a device :p Jun 30 10:33:21 Jaffa, lies! Jun 30 10:33:23 Order placed :-) Jun 30 10:33:30 anyway, they're giving the option to trade it for an N9 when the loan is done Jun 30 10:33:36 Jaffa, one day shipping? :P Jun 30 10:33:43 vi__: It runs the same firmware as the N9 Jun 30 10:33:46 (we think) Jun 30 10:33:52 MohammadAG: "Approximate delivery time: one week" Jun 30 10:33:53 Jaffa: No chance Jun 30 10:34:10 * lardman repeatedly hits the "Check mail" button Jun 30 10:34:11 chem|st> DocScrutinizer: did the SIP guy die finally? || Inbound worked, and then I had some other duties Jun 30 10:34:17 Jaffa: It runs developer edition software. Jun 30 10:34:26 X-Fade: Ah, good point Jun 30 10:34:33 Jaffa, they aren't sending the emails out one by one are they? Surely they would do something automatic... Jun 30 10:34:43 apparently there's new software in the offing for it though isn't there? Jun 30 10:34:48 Termana, you never know *insert troll face* Jun 30 10:34:59 soooo, anything new and exciting? Jun 30 10:35:17 DocScrutinizer: greece is about to default. Jun 30 10:35:29 that's not ne Jun 30 10:35:31 w Jun 30 10:35:33 ah no, online firmware is older than the on-device firmware Jun 30 10:35:37 DocScrutinizer: Edinburgh tram system has just been cancelled at a cost of 700million pounds Jun 30 10:35:48 hah Jun 30 10:35:49 Yeah, that's pretty shit isn't it .. Jun 30 10:35:55 lardman, mmcblks, you can dd them Jun 30 10:36:04 I hope someone does that Jun 30 10:36:12 alterego: what the firmware or the trams? Jun 30 10:36:46 MohammadAG: sure, when I get one Jun 30 10:36:47 run some basic initrd, dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=flashingImage Jun 30 10:36:58 vi__: firmware Jun 30 10:38:30 Termana: They already know my developer.nokia.com ID, so I've skipped a step Jun 30 10:39:09 Jaffa, ah ok. Jun 30 10:40:22 lardman: i will try to see this tommorow morning Jun 30 10:40:30 Heh, the web browser as an "add to apps" feature that basically does what 99% of iPhone apps do built in :D Jun 30 10:40:51 but I agree that this kind of deamon is very usefull in day to day life Jun 30 10:41:16 alterego: Combine that with something like Oculo and it'd be very cool Jun 30 10:41:36 for example "remind me to send this mail when near my post" Jun 30 10:42:04 btw, as buses use gps now, to announce the next station, they can offer an api Jun 30 10:43:10 where is the schedule for alarmd stored? Jun 30 10:43:12 you'd think meanwhile somebody would've bothered to turn http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#Results into a proper 1) 2) 3) table/list Jun 30 10:44:19 obviously no mediawiki cracks interested in that page Jun 30 10:45:38 DocScrutinizer: qgil said he'd find a not-table easier to work with and ppl to add to Jun 30 10:45:57 *cough* Jun 30 10:47:22 DocScrutinizer: Well, indeed. Jun 30 10:47:35 isn't quim a It dude? wouldn't he think about semantic tagging a bit? mandatory "Name: ", so you could still wc -l somehow Jun 30 10:47:47 IT* Jun 30 10:48:31 meh Jun 30 10:48:38 Jaffa: you got your email? Jun 30 10:49:23 alterego: I skipped the one about "send your developer.nokia.com ID to *******@nokia.com" as they already had it. So I moved on to the next bit, where they've put it into your account as available through the DDP Jun 30 10:49:37 Oh! Jun 30 10:49:49 alterego: I keep pressing "refresh" on the order status to see if it changes to "Shipped", but I suspect they'll do batches of devices out to DHL Jun 30 10:49:51 So I should be able to order mine with me developer.nokia.com account? Jun 30 10:50:31 alterego: I got an email from no.reply-developer@nokia.com, subject "A Nokia N950 is waiting for you" Jun 30 10:50:35 arn't you bothered that the n950 is the MOST dead ended of dead ends? Jun 30 10:51:00 Jaffa: oh, :( Jun 30 10:51:15 Jaffa: was your nokia developer account linked to your submnission? Jun 30 10:51:19 vi__: Well, no, cos a) it's a new toy which meets my requirements; b) it's free (loan); c) it's faster than qemu for developing apps for the N9 Jun 30 10:51:44 alterego: No. I think they just know it. Jun 30 10:52:19 hmm, still no email, a watched email account never receives an email from Nokia, or was that kettles? Jun 30 10:52:50 No email for me, either. Jun 30 10:53:07 Is your surname Youg? Jun 30 10:53:11 Young even Jun 30 10:53:16 Yup Jun 30 10:53:35 Mine is Pickering, so perhaps they've made it to F(legg) but no further Jun 30 10:53:48 hehehe Jun 30 10:54:12 I hope quim is at least using c&p for sending the mails Jun 30 10:55:23 otherwise, if I had to send 200 mails, that'd take ~200h Jun 30 10:56:05 * khertan 's email account refresh rate exceeded Jun 30 10:56:17 but my mailer allows multiple "to:", even multiple "BCC:" ;-) Jun 30 10:56:51 hmm password recovery seems to not send mails to my usual account... Jun 30 10:57:13 everyone has a different ID Jun 30 10:57:23 tbh I'd script it Jun 30 10:57:46 mail ftw Jun 30 10:58:00 man mail Jun 30 10:58:34 DocScrutinizer: I didn't get an email from Quim Jun 30 10:58:47 thought as much Jun 30 11:00:26 ok, cleaned out my cookies so the "session-end" meego.com cookie didn't stop me from logging in anymore ;-P Jun 30 11:01:06 ...til next logout I guess XP Jun 30 11:01:45 hmm still no Nokia email but I did finally get paid £340 in expenses which was a nice email to see too Jun 30 11:03:52 mails from nokia tend to end in my spamfilter regularly, as they manage to mess up quite a lot with their mail accounts and mailers. No proper RDNS or sth, meh I forgot what my sysadmin explained to me between the 50% swearwords Jun 30 11:04:13 I think I have all spam scripts turned off Jun 30 11:05:15 yeah, Nokia on my *whitelist* now :-o Jun 30 11:07:07 before my sysadmin did that, the mails were not even delivered, so no trace of them even in spam-bin Jun 30 11:07:16 yeah that's my worry too Jun 30 11:09:18 Nokia on Openmoko's mail-whitelist - kinda funny Jun 30 11:12:25 mhm .. we all should thank elop .. in about 1.5 years nokia will be a penny stock and we can buy it up :P Jun 30 11:12:51 cehteh: Im not really into investing in wellie boots Jun 30 11:12:55 oh damn .. i forgot, thats the secret plan from M$ for acquireing it Jun 30 11:22:42 I think I'm gonna do an N950 unboxing (my first unboxing) and I'm going to say, "Yeah, it runs Maemo6 Harmattan" Jun 30 11:22:50 "Oh, I mean MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan" Jun 30 11:22:56 lol Jun 30 11:23:09 Oh that boot up screen is quite nice. Jun 30 11:23:23 * mgedmin is green with envy Jun 30 11:23:54 re magnetic field lines, is there a readily available model that can also give a latitude? Jun 30 11:23:59 mgedmin: hi :-) Jun 30 11:24:09 I'm thinking the measurement accuracy might need to be quite high for this Jun 30 11:24:16 * mgedmin waves vaguely Jun 30 11:24:21 s/latitude/longitude Jun 30 11:24:25 hi mgedmin Jun 30 11:24:27 alterego: you gonna hd-record the unboxing? Jun 30 11:24:31 mgedmin: do you still run your own irc logger? Jun 30 11:24:34 yes Jun 30 11:24:36 macmaN: yup, with the N8 Jun 30 11:24:41 word up Jun 30 11:24:42 * alterego chuckles Jun 30 11:24:51 mgedmin: does it still log #openmoko-cdevel? Jun 30 11:24:52 and it still doesn't have sane text search Jun 30 11:24:56 Actually, I don't even know if I'll get the N8 in time .. Jun 30 11:25:08 did it ever log #openmoko-cdevel? I don't think so Jun 30 11:25:18 if you don't see povbot in the channel, then it's not logging anything Jun 30 11:25:27 aah Jun 30 11:25:48 so let's invite the sucker ;-) Jun 30 11:25:57 sure, I can set it up Jun 30 11:26:12 while cursing supybot's pain-in-the-posterior configuration interface all the time Jun 30 11:27:27 hmm, strange, I bet I've seen nicely formatted (courtesy mgedmin) chanlogs of om-cdevel once Jun 30 11:27:44 of course povbot won't simply join Jun 30 11:27:47 on invite Jun 30 11:27:58 no, you have to talk to it, give it an admin password, etc. Jun 30 11:28:07 sure Jun 30 11:29:53 We should get "I have an N950" tshirt, with the troll face on it. Jun 30 11:30:39 good, so people know who to rob :) Jun 30 11:30:54 FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- :P Jun 30 11:31:50 jaska: sure, but I wont be taking the N950 out of the house, I'll be carrying around an N8 :P Jun 30 11:31:56 * MohammadAG starts printing I have no N950 shirts http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/12/120905/1818742-fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu_super.gif Jun 30 11:32:09 :) Jun 30 11:32:17 alterego: well, then we can take hostages and demand n950s :) Jun 30 11:32:19 too bad touch-hold isn't emulating right click, it just.. well, does function that way Jun 30 11:32:31 jaska, cambridge UK, know anyone who lives there? :P Jun 30 11:32:43 not offhand Jun 30 11:32:46 as context menus @computer doesn't open w/X forwarding and applications Jun 30 11:33:24 i would prefer it emulating right click completly Jun 30 11:33:48 o/ Jun 30 11:33:52 \o/ Jun 30 11:33:55 I live there! Jun 30 11:33:57 \o/ Jun 30 11:35:49 alterego, you're the target Jun 30 11:35:56 so, has anyone received their N950 e-mails yet? Jun 30 11:36:20 Jaffa Jun 30 11:36:26 No one has Jun 30 11:36:41 I thought a few people had? Jun 30 11:36:42 Jaffa's submission is a special case Jun 30 11:36:52 Khertan, Anidel, etc. Jun 30 11:36:54 why is it taking so long :/ Jun 30 11:36:56 He had his developer nokia account setup right, obviously .. Jun 30 11:36:59 crashanddie, helsinki meet up, all attendees got one Jun 30 11:37:04 Oh, ok. Jun 30 11:37:18 As well as Nokia Employees Jun 30 11:37:19 Wow, didn't even know there was a Helsinki meetup Jun 30 11:37:26 When? Jun 30 11:37:28 they had one for some time, probably since November Jun 30 11:37:35 Yesterday Jun 30 11:37:42 Fairy nuff. Jun 30 11:38:01 Well, good for them, I guess Jun 30 11:38:10 I'm just not impressed anymore. Jun 30 11:39:24 there is like 1% chance that i will get n950 and i keep checking my mail Jun 30 11:39:27 I also have a developer.nokia.com accound. it turns out that I've had it since 2007 (same as forum nokia and ovi account) Jun 30 11:39:30 that sucks :) Jun 30 11:39:36 MohammadAG: november sounds correct, given date of http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333 Jun 30 11:40:28 so that's not going to happen again I guess Jun 30 11:42:12 crashanddie: ? Jun 30 11:42:40 crashanddie: 'lu Jun 30 11:42:45 yo Jun 30 11:43:01 khertan, did you think of a solution for a proper on screen keyboard for KhtEditor? Jun 30 11:43:11 crashanddie: nope still waiting email. Jun 30 11:43:30 MohammadAG: a proper ? the native one is so bad ? Jun 30 11:43:59 MohammadAG: didn't look too bad in harmattan sdk Jun 30 11:44:22 I killed MInputMethod, so no idea :P Jun 30 11:44:49 MohammadAG: but yes i ll need to found a way to close it Jun 30 11:45:03 as when it s open you can t close it Jun 30 11:45:20 khertan, just make the QTextEdit lose focus Jun 30 11:45:35 same for windows i ven't found how to close it on sb Jun 30 11:45:46 MohammadAG: yep but button take place Jun 30 11:45:56 now are Nokia email addresses formatted? first.last@nokia.com? Jun 30 11:46:04 so i ll probably need to do a gesture Jun 30 11:47:03 khertan: You don't close windows. Jun 30 11:47:13 khertan: You just swipe away. Jun 30 11:47:48 X-Fade: yep or swipe away them Jun 30 11:47:48 :) Jun 30 11:48:14 lardman, yes Jun 30 11:48:26 thanks MohammadAG Jun 30 11:49:19 X-Fade: but i ven't never been able to swipe them away. It s working on other app but not KhtEditor ... so maybe it s due to plain qt Jun 30 11:50:59 khertan: That should not matter. I can swipe away a plain qt app. Jun 30 11:53:31 swiping is done on the window manager/compositor level, you can swipe away any app Jun 30 11:53:34 X-Fade: i should probably do some more quake live game to improve mouse dexterity for swiping windows in xephyr ... i used too much my n900 ... :) Jun 30 11:53:42 I hope this works with the N9/50 http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/21/nokia-steps-it-up-a-gear-with-new-accessories/nokia-bluetooth-stereo-headset-bh-111_black_3/ Jun 30 11:54:03 * DocScrutinizer mumbles about "close xchat via menu... pfff" Jun 30 11:54:05 hi. does anyone know of google+ app for maemo5? Jun 30 11:54:25 It's a bluetooth headset unit, where you can plug in your own headphones. Jun 30 11:54:26 alterego: my bh-214 works at least. Jun 30 11:54:29 Wonder how it charges. Jun 30 11:54:34 thresh: dev need an invite before :) Jun 30 11:54:37 X-Fade: does it have media keys? That's more important to me :D Jun 30 11:54:39 Jaffa, ping Jun 30 11:54:49 khertan: hehe I don't have invites yet sorry :( Jun 30 11:54:55 thresh: :) Jun 30 11:54:57 X-Fade: does that imply you can not close apps, just like idiotic windows phones? Jun 30 11:55:11 alterego: Start stop, volume? Jun 30 11:55:18 I have an invite, it says I have to be 18+ to use it Jun 30 11:55:30 X-Fade: yeah, fwd/prev too? Jun 30 11:55:39 DocScrutinizer: No, you can close them if you really want too. Jun 30 11:55:39 DocScrutinizer: i remember someone saying there will be a gesture for closing Jun 30 11:55:41 Track skipping and pause/play are my main functions Jun 30 11:55:51 I was pissed with the N900 didn't work with Nokia headset remotes :/ Jun 30 11:55:54 DocScrutinizer: on the N9/N950? You can close apps on the grid Jun 30 11:56:12 whatever that means Jun 30 11:56:22 The open applications view Jun 30 11:56:25 DocScrutinizer: tap & hold Jun 30 11:56:29 Then press the x Jun 30 11:56:37 It's kinda similar to removing widgets on Fremantle desktop. Jun 30 11:56:39 aah k Jun 30 11:57:00 Except tap and hold, rather than press and then press the gear icon Jun 30 11:57:24 I've just thought what I'd really like out of the application switcher/view Jun 30 11:57:25 alterego: Yeah, skipping works fine. Jun 30 11:57:30 X-Fade: awesome :) Jun 30 11:57:37 I'll be ordering something like that then Jun 30 11:57:41 alterego: And play/pause too of course. Jun 30 11:58:01 swipe down to close Jun 30 11:58:04 I'd like to scrap the "most recent app is first" in the app lister. Jun 30 11:58:12 And I'd like to make them movable Jun 30 11:58:17 So I can drag them around in the grid Jun 30 11:58:21 frals: Ssssh :) Jun 30 11:59:01 So, I'd like to be able to organise the "windows" how I want them to be organised and not have the automatic most recent stack like behaviour Jun 30 11:59:13 alterego ++ Jun 30 11:59:34 i thought it would bother me, but it doesnt so far really Jun 30 11:59:38 * alterego adds idea to his wiki Jun 30 12:00:05 frals: what would bother you? The slightly more fiddly app closing? Jun 30 12:00:08 Or the organisation? Jun 30 12:00:17 the recent goes first Jun 30 12:00:28 To be honest, I have 20 apps open and I don't notice a thing. Jun 30 12:00:30 app closing is not fiddly with swipe down ;) Jun 30 12:00:55 frals: I'm not saying it'd annoy me, I think I'd just like to be able to organise them myself. Jun 30 12:01:09 alterego: at least you can organise the launcher ;D Jun 30 12:01:10 If we really can have all these live apps open, then sure, I'd like it to be like a dashboard ;) Jun 30 12:01:15 Heh Jun 30 12:02:19 alterego: You can pinch. Jun 30 12:02:26 X-Fade: not the same :P Jun 30 12:02:27 alterego: So more fit on your screen :) Jun 30 12:02:38 I mean properly organising Jun 30 12:02:44 Like the app launcher grid Jun 30 12:02:56 alterego: Ah, like old times :) Jun 30 12:03:30 javispedro: hi Jun 30 12:03:35 hi there Jun 30 12:05:34 i am also just now wondering about app closing Jun 30 12:05:53 i am pretty sure i saw a setting on N9 that said either up or down swipe closes the app Jun 30 12:05:59 there is no such setting that i can see in n950 Jun 30 12:06:05 Jaffa, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=24198#post24198 Jun 30 12:06:13 task switcher becomes hella cluttered quickly Jun 30 12:06:27 X-Fade: (20 apps open, no thing) regarding resources? that's not the point. xchat will happily continue eating data traffic volume when running in background, so there *is* a diff between closing and swiping away Jun 30 12:06:32 macmaN: you dont have it in your build yet Jun 30 12:06:35 so, what's new and interesting? Jun 30 12:06:42 MohammadAG: DocScrutinizer: any of you on the n950 list? Jun 30 12:06:50 frals: yeah thats what im thinking Jun 30 12:06:52 DocScrutinizer: Just tap and hold and hit the X then. Jun 30 12:06:53 nah, list didn't change Jun 30 12:06:56 good to know its coming Jun 30 12:07:07 X-Fade: yup, fair enough Jun 30 12:07:10 javispedro, wanna start us a channel? Jun 30 12:07:15 lcuk: hi Jun 30 12:07:18 Jaffa, ping Jun 30 12:08:03 /join ##weneverreallywanted950 Jun 30 12:08:06 MohammadAG: there will be no need. I'm counting on that ;) Jun 30 12:08:13 Just got my email Jun 30 12:08:29 oh. Jun 30 12:08:37 click click click click ... refresh rate exceeded ... Jun 30 12:08:40 DocScrutinizer, more like ##IdonthaveanN950butactuallywantedone Jun 30 12:09:06 MohammadAG: take lessons in sarcasm :-) Jun 30 12:09:07 * javispedro nearly hits on the "add qgil to google+ link" Jun 30 12:09:15 :) Jun 30 12:09:58 DocScrutinizer, wasn't being sarcastic Jun 30 12:10:14 Google+ meh Jun 30 12:10:31 honestly, probably you are too young for good sarcasm ;-) Jun 30 12:10:32 * MohammadAG opens the invite, sees This feature is not available for your account You must be over a certain age to use this feature. Jun 30 12:10:36 Just got my wmail Jun 30 12:10:38 ~email Jun 30 12:10:38 well, email is the lifeblood of the pornternet Jun 30 12:10:56 .... WOUHOU ! Same here Jun 30 12:10:59 MohammadAG: I hate Google+, but I made a bet with someone a few months ago Facebook would end in less than three years. Jun 30 12:11:13 MohammadAG: so I _really_ need Google+ to win for me to win the bet. Jun 30 12:11:21 * lardman almost missed the fact he needs to reply to the email Jun 30 12:11:37 I'd use Google+ if it didn't want me to give a public profile. I don't *want* people knowing I liked something, just that someone did Jun 30 12:12:25 ok, time to fire up that password sniffer so I can get all those n950s while people log in Jun 30 12:12:34 * MohammadAG checks his email, maybe this was just a joke Jun 30 12:12:41 * MohammadAG realizes he's living in denial Jun 30 12:12:51 o.O Jun 30 12:13:20 * DocScrutinizer is tempted to set up FF's "watch this page for chages" feature Jun 30 12:13:27 changes even Jun 30 12:13:35 You have an existing contact, please disassociate from developer account page before creating a new account. < ? Jun 30 12:13:48 NO, NO, NO!! Jun 30 12:13:50 NOOOOOOOOOOOOoo Jun 30 12:13:58 launchpad stuff involved. Jun 30 12:14:16 ? Jun 30 12:14:17 WTF? Jun 30 12:14:29 I friggin need the launchpad account Jun 30 12:14:34 so it's as good as dead for me =) Jun 30 12:14:44 "please create a launchpad account to receive your N950" ? Jun 30 12:14:49 DocScrutinizer: mostly. Jun 30 12:14:58 FSCK! Jun 30 12:15:01 mece: pong Jun 30 12:15:08 DocScrutinizer: you have one, why you are complaining! Jun 30 12:15:16 for you Jun 30 12:15:21 'Status: "Device sent to customer"' Jun 30 12:15:22 I have no idea what I'm doing .. Jun 30 12:15:23 I won't need mine anyway Jun 30 12:15:23 :-D Jun 30 12:16:03 MohammadAG: Are you 18 yet? Actually, I think you are ;-) Jun 30 12:16:19 * javispedro goes for lunch. Then, I will _MASH THE SEND WEBSITE FEEDBACK BUTTON_ Jun 30 12:16:37 Jaffa: N950 comes with p0rn preloaded? Jun 30 12:16:37 javispedro, what's launchpad? Jun 30 12:16:38 Nokia Developer Id is the login ? Jun 30 12:16:41 Jaffa, I was wondering where you got that info about the dev device, but I saw the email now. Only problem is I'm already in some stuff here. Jun 30 12:17:13 Jaffa, 17 Jun 30 12:17:14 MohammadAG: devel.nokia.com special class of users Jun 30 12:17:20 * lardman waits for the launchpad accepted email Jun 30 12:17:24 MohammadAG: I think you're wrong. Jun 30 12:17:33 About? Jun 30 12:17:42 MohammadAG: Your age. I'm pretty sure you're 18. Jun 30 12:17:48 Jaffa, conveniently none of the three steps described in the mail work. Jun 30 12:17:49 MohammadAG: I'm also pretty certain they don't check ID Jun 30 12:17:56 MohammadAG: definitely, don;t you remember the party earlier in the year? Jun 30 12:18:10 Jaffa: he's definitely 18, he just entered a hoax birthdate Jun 30 12:18:18 typo, easy to do Jun 30 12:18:25 ah wait. I need to send that Account ID? Jun 30 12:18:29 MohammadAG: We know how vain you are, but really - you're not fooling anyone Jun 30 12:18:43 hehe Jun 30 12:18:51 just saying you're under 18 doesn't stop the gray hairs you know ;) Jun 30 12:18:56 Most of us wait until we've hit 30 before saying we're younger than we actually are. Jun 30 12:18:59 I'm actually 28 Jun 30 12:19:22 Who was it that suggested that we should make the date-time picker for the date time control panel better? Jun 30 12:19:25 nah, google+ still not working :p Jun 30 12:19:46 jonwil: that happened to be me Jun 30 12:19:52 jonwil: DocScrutinizer suggested it was shit. I suggested the Harmattan one is shiny Jun 30 12:20:19 time for 12648430 ☕ Jun 30 12:22:17 pfffff i understand nothing on nokia developper website Jun 30 12:22:23 there is account par page ? Jun 30 12:23:11 khertan, I agree it's super confusing. Jun 30 12:23:40 lardman: Congrats! Jun 30 12:23:50 SpeedEvil: thanks Jun 30 12:23:52 I sent qgil the stuff I found under https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml Jun 30 12:24:01 there's Account ID and Account name. Jun 30 12:24:19 well the way to make those widgets better is to bring Libhildon1 into the CSSU and improve that Jun 30 12:24:20 SpeedEvil: did you see my question up above about the magnetic field lines and whether the model gives you any chance of a longitude fix too? Jun 30 12:24:35 mece: !!! Thx ... i wasn't able to found it :) Jun 30 12:24:39 lardman: I diddn't. However. Jun 30 12:24:48 well that's the question basically :) Jun 30 12:24:50 khertan, I'm not sure that's the thing he wants tho, mind you. But I think so. Jun 30 12:25:01 One thing I noticed on the order page. The "quantity" defaults to one, but is a drop-down... didn't bother checking what the other options were Jun 30 12:25:18 mece: it s look like Jun 30 12:25:23 lardman: longitude only via astrological means Jun 30 12:25:24 lardman: The phone gives you a direction of the magnetic field vector. If you're in the UK - for example - this will be an arrow pointing up and north. Jun 30 12:25:49 Gaddamn, I'm all giddy. How the hell did you get a reply so fast Jaffa? Jun 30 12:25:55 * mece does the harmattan dance Jun 30 12:25:55 lardman: You with the accellerometer can work out the angle between these and 'down' apply some maths ang get latitude. Jun 30 12:26:03 yeah don;t worry I get that, but yesterday someone was talking about a model for the field line directions and it taking up some non-trivial amount of space Jun 30 12:26:08 lardman: magnetic sensor can only give you clue about latitude Jun 30 12:26:17 lardman: They were wrong. Jun 30 12:26:22 mece: They already had my Nokia Developer Professional/Launchpad/whatever account, and knew the details Jun 30 12:26:26 lardman: It's a few hundred bytes of spherical harmonics Jun 30 12:26:26 ok fine, that's what I thought Jun 30 12:26:44 Jaffa, ah. I see. Jun 30 12:26:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Magnetic_Model Jun 30 12:27:00 so add in a MCC country code and it will give you a rough fix too, all good Jun 30 12:27:18 a fix on latitude only. Jun 30 12:27:33 SpeedEvil: And within the borders of the country a range of longtitudes ;-) Jun 30 12:27:44 yes, but MCC will give you a rough fix on longitude as on its own the latitude isn't much use Jun 30 12:27:46 The contours of every country might be a bit large ;-) Jun 30 12:27:55 You could add any observable extraatmospheric object and get a fix on position. Jun 30 12:28:11 like sun Jun 30 12:28:15 Yes. Jun 30 12:28:20 grr Jun 30 12:28:21 That'd be very cool. Jun 30 12:28:22 need proper time Jun 30 12:28:29 why is it when I maximize Konsole my whole laptop goes down Jun 30 12:28:30 DocScrutinizer: Get it from GPS ;-) Jun 30 12:28:34 lol Jun 30 12:28:34 DocScrutinizer: nope - just date Jun 30 12:28:44 err Jun 30 12:28:44 is it me or does n950 browser have trouble with self signed certificates Jun 30 12:28:46 * SpeedEvil ponders. Jun 30 12:29:06 o.O Jun 30 12:29:17 It's an ambiguous position without time I think, yeah. Jun 30 12:29:30 so I guess I found out how to send invites out in G+, so developers are welcome :D Jun 30 12:29:57 thresh: no thanks Jun 30 12:30:04 they question is where to implement extra location methods? I guess QtM would be the place if they are willing to take patches Jun 30 12:30:05 * mece wishes G+ will fail as miserably as buzz and wave Jun 30 12:30:16 What the f is google+ ? Jun 30 12:30:31 alterego, the next step in control and world domination Jun 30 12:30:32 alterego: I was about to ask the same question :) Jun 30 12:30:39 lardman: The fun issue is can we add this data usefully to a fix. Jun 30 12:30:47 mece: facebook++ I heard Jun 30 12:30:52 yep. Jun 30 12:31:07 * Jaffa doesn't want everything he does through Google to be part of his social network. Jun 30 12:31:16 exactly Jaffa Jun 30 12:31:34 SpeedEvil: yep, but how to present the ability to a dev who doesn't care about the method, just the fact it can be done without a connection, etc Jun 30 12:31:38 "Jaffa now watches pr0n" :) Jun 30 12:31:51 X-Fade: ;-) Jun 30 12:31:56 I HATE google for integrating everything. I do not want them reading my emails and adjusting my search results. I like google services, but I want them absolutely separate. Jun 30 12:32:01 Or searches for. Even worse :) Jun 30 12:32:03 Jaffa: so you not yet replaced your DHCP provided DNS servers by 8.8.8.8 ? Jun 30 12:32:07 X-Fade, exactly Jun 30 12:32:08 X-Fade: he uses your google login for that Jun 30 12:32:25 DocScrutinizer, I use that sometimes. My isp's dns is broken :/ Jun 30 12:32:51 DocScrutinizer: Not everywhere, no - but I accept Google know it. I just don't want them exposing it to someone who I once emailed as part of a reply-all on maemo-users Jun 30 12:33:07 are meego touch libs in the harmattan SDK? Jun 30 12:33:12 Oh, well that is all ok. I'll use yours to search for all kinds of weird std pictures. I guess you will see some adds for meds soon :) Jun 30 12:33:24 MohammadAG: Should be, yes. Jun 30 12:33:25 :) Jun 30 12:33:27 Jaffa: :-P Jun 30 12:33:53 That's my problem with Google Contacts as well. I like the autocompletion when composing an email, but I don't consider them a "contact" Jun 30 12:33:53 Jaffa, how do I make a new project with MTF then? Jun 30 12:34:03 MohammadAG: Err, no idea. Jun 30 12:35:04 lardman: SpeedEvil: what *is* the harmattan analogon to liblocation? Jun 30 12:35:35 liblocationextras is part of it Jun 30 12:35:36 mece, ping Jun 30 12:35:42 Termana, o/ Jun 30 12:35:43 DocScrutinizer: no idea Jun 30 12:36:01 cellular-qt does cellids Jun 30 12:36:02 mece, is "Account name" suppose to be our real full name or just a username? Jun 30 12:36:08 qtm-location does the gps stuff Jun 30 12:36:15 Account name is username Jun 30 12:36:17 lardman: :nod: Jun 30 12:36:25 so basically it's all spread out around the place, which is a bit crap Jun 30 12:36:28 click your username in top left, and you should see full name Jun 30 12:36:32 lardman: :nod: Jun 30 12:36:38 s/click/Termana, click/ Jun 30 12:36:38 mece meant: Termana, click your username in top left, and you should see full name Jun 30 12:36:51 dammit, Termana, top right I mean Jun 30 12:36:56 but it should all be wrapped as alternative methods in the qtm-location stuff, as currently it only supports gps Jun 30 12:37:21 lardman: QtM is a flawed concept anyway Jun 30 12:37:32 but what we have to work with Jun 30 12:37:34 lardman, supports network also... Jun 30 12:37:41 mece: QtM? Jun 30 12:37:45 lardman, at least 1.2 Jun 30 12:37:47 lardman: you don't want to replace middleware daemon stuff by a lib linked to every app Jun 30 12:38:07 that's just ODD Jun 30 12:38:10 lardman, I'm using it indoors so I'm pretty sure I don't have gps signal Jun 30 12:38:26 DocScrutinizer, I don't think the location bits are broken though Jun 30 12:38:32 mece: hmm interesting, I'll do some looking Jun 30 12:38:48 lardman, you can force it to use gps if you want though. Jun 30 12:39:17 mece: I was looking through the harmattan api docs and didn't see it, just let me find the qtm 1.2 docs Jun 30 12:39:37 mece: if QtM is talking to whatever sensors (here GPS chip) "directly" on a per-app basis, then who's delaing with switching off the chip? Jun 30 12:39:53 s/dela/deal/ Jun 30 12:39:55 DocScrutinizer meant: mece: if QtM is talking to whatever sensors (here GPS chip) "directly" on a per-app basis, then who's dealing with switching off the chip? Jun 30 12:40:23 this is a so obviously broken design Jun 30 12:40:40 lardman, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2/qgeopositioninfosource.html#PositioningMethod-enum Jun 30 12:40:42 QtM talks to liblocation or whatever management backend there is gypsy etc. Jun 30 12:40:48 Ok, question: Is a clone of the date-time control panel usefull or not? Jun 30 12:40:58 alterego: aah ok then Jun 30 12:41:01 It's handled on a reference-by-reference basis I think. Jun 30 12:41:11 Remember that GPS comms is proprietary and closed ;) Jun 30 12:41:20 mece: but there are no other methods defined, just a generic "nonsatellite" Jun 30 12:41:31 MohammadAG: launchpad is their app store developer project Jun 30 12:41:36 lardman, well it depends on whatever the device supports I suppose Jun 30 12:41:44 MohammadAG: re meegotouch: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/api_refs/showdoc.php?pkn=libmeegotouch&wb=daily-docs&url=Li94bWwvZGFpbHktZG9jcy9saWJtZWVnb3RvdWNo Jun 30 12:41:44 lardman, on N900 it uses network positioning Jun 30 12:41:46 jonwil: control panel as in "settings"? probably not. Replacement of the used widget systemwide? YES!!! Jun 30 12:41:57 what device are you using that gives you wifi ap location data? Jun 30 12:42:08 ah ok Jun 30 12:42:09 javispedro, can't find which headers I need for status menu applets Jun 30 12:42:15 oh. Jun 30 12:42:15 lardman, hmm I haven't tried that one. Jun 30 12:42:17 good question. Jun 30 12:42:32 #meego's dead Jun 30 12:42:51 mece: on the N900 the other rolls up all the liblocation stuff, but on the N950 I can't see what is included in that, and how I can add methods Jun 30 12:42:53 MohammadAG, #maemo is where it's at \o/ Jun 30 12:42:56 #meego's not harmattan (MNG) Jun 30 12:42:58 er.. Jun 30 12:43:01 (MNH) Jun 30 12:43:05 Fixing the widget involves bringing libhildon1 into the CSSU and fixing that Jun 30 12:43:07 ;PO Jun 30 12:43:22 All the code for the widget is open source Jun 30 12:43:34 lardman, but isn't it enough to put NonSatellite? Jun 30 12:43:41 javispedro, then why's the DDP being discussed on meego.com? Jun 30 12:44:18 because it s an harmattan device ... a mix of meego / maemo Jun 30 12:44:18 :) Jun 30 12:44:22 mece: perhaps, but there are levels of accuracy one can obtain with differing penalties - e.g. cellid location requires a net connection (currently) to get the lat/lon Jun 30 12:44:49 lardman, yes... hmm ok at least my n900 found my position through wlan :) Jun 30 12:45:06 MCC is free, so long as you have a cell connection; offline cell id could also be free and far more accurate; magnetic field lines could be free and not need a cell connection at all, etc Jun 30 12:45:13 javispedro, Jun 30 12:45:14 libmeegotouchsettings.so.0 => /usr/lib/libmeegotouchsettings.so.0 (0xf70a2000) Jun 30 12:45:15 libmeegotouchextensions.so.0 => /usr/lib/libmeegotouchextensions.so.0 (0xf7019000) Jun 30 12:45:15 libmeegotouchviews.so.0 => /usr/lib/libmeegotouchviews.so.0 (0xf551b000) Jun 30 12:45:17 mece: you are lucky ... precision for me is center of France over Wlan :) Jun 30 12:45:53 Yeah I end up in Birmingham, so a hundred miles out or so Jun 30 12:46:05 khertan, LOL well I'm in university's IT department, and they do some stuff with location so I suppose they have properly set up the position of the router. Jun 30 12:46:15 jonwil: appreciated addition to CSSU Jun 30 12:46:19 they just look at the IP address iirc Jun 30 12:46:33 so none of the ap location stuff that one can get on e.g. the iPhone Jun 30 12:46:45 lardman, yep, but that ip has to be connected to a location.. Jun 30 12:46:47 but it would be nice to be able to use that capability with the data from openbmal Jun 30 12:46:57 openbmap Jun 30 12:47:22 I dont have the GUI programming skills to fix the date and time widgets Jun 30 12:47:29 javispedro, the status menu in Harmattan is based on MeeGo's Jun 30 12:47:34 or is actually MeeGo's Jun 30 12:47:45 jonwil, which date/time widgets? Jun 30 12:47:45 MohammadAG: is MeeGo's afaik. Jun 30 12:48:04 the HildonDateButton and HildonTimePicker Jun 30 12:48:08 MohammadAG: Somehow I think it is the other way around, but yeah ;) Jun 30 12:48:12 that people have suggested should be made better Jun 30 12:48:37 HildonTimeButton Jun 30 12:48:38 * javispedro has to understand that one bit yet Jun 30 12:48:51 I think the statusbar can be drawn either by mcompositor decorator _or_ the client application Jun 30 12:48:59 lardman: AP location on iPhone used to be SkyHook, but they switched to a genuine apple service later Jun 30 12:49:00 javispedro, I can't find ANY docs for it Jun 30 12:49:21 hmmm, I think I might clone the date time settings applet anyway just for fun :) Jun 30 12:49:21 DocScrutinizer: That was the name I was trying to remember; would be nice to be able to do the same Jun 30 12:50:59 Might also play with libtelcommon and libcsnet Jun 30 12:51:27 duh, what's that? never heard about those libs Jun 30 12:52:22 lardman: building a database for AP locations is not going to fly until you got a critical mass of users Jun 30 12:52:47 or sth like google streeview cars gathering the info en passant Jun 30 12:52:55 was it engadget that had pictures of the DevKit? Jun 30 12:53:13 libcsnet is where network related signals come from Jun 30 12:53:16 like operator change Jun 30 12:53:25 or cell tower change Jun 30 12:53:41 lardman: of course you can keep you local list of known AP and related GPS coords on device Jun 30 12:54:02 MohammadAG: "system-ui" package Jun 30 12:54:17 mece: pictures of devkit? mompls Jun 30 12:54:39 javispedro, no docs there Jun 30 12:54:41 Docscrutinizer: that would be an alternative is openbmap doesn't have the data in question Jun 30 12:54:55 mece: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n950-press-shots/#4243193 Jun 30 12:55:00 javispedro, system-ui-status-indicator-menu-volume-nokia Jun 30 12:55:16 no, that's just the volume menu Jun 30 12:55:24 the battery one seems to be in system-ui itself Jun 30 12:55:35 DocScrutinizer: and to also upload the missing data of course Jun 30 12:56:09 lardman: yeah, openbmap is retarded as they don't collect *all* the available data for accquisition points Jun 30 12:56:33 Why is there so much interest in a non-GPS way of doing location tracking? Jun 30 12:56:33 I didn't realise, but if they are the best going then c'est la vie Jun 30 12:56:39 YES I didn't get an email from qgil :D Jun 30 12:56:42 DocScrutinizer, yeah, found it. SEXYYYY Jun 30 12:56:44 MohammadAG: oh, you are interested in the menu itself Jun 30 12:56:51 MohammadAG \o/ Jun 30 12:56:55 "Email sent to 210 participants not accepted in the N950 program." Jun 30 12:56:59 jonwil: just covering all the bases, plus the N900 gps is rubbish without assistance data Jun 30 12:57:04 lardman: openbmap is based on the circle model which is flawed for real life Jun 30 12:57:11 MohammadAG, wot? Jun 30 12:57:27 http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24212&postcount=184 Jun 30 12:57:48 so its more looking for a way to do better location in the situation where a data connection is unavailable or expensive? Jun 30 12:57:51 woohoo, I didn't receive an email, that must mean that I'm gonna get one! Jun 30 12:57:59 jonwil: exactly Jun 30 12:58:03 jonwil: interest in non GPS location is due to a)TTFF b)power consumption of GPS c)indoors etc Jun 30 12:58:05 not a replacement but a fallback Jun 30 12:58:08 no, it doesn't, it just means you weren't rejected/accepted yet :D Jun 30 12:58:12 MohammadAG: did you get one such email? O.o Jun 30 12:58:22 ah Jun 30 12:58:24 you didn't =) Jun 30 12:59:11 I wonder if he's going from newest to oldest applications Jun 30 12:59:21 cause I'm pretty sure I'm one of the first 100 or 200 Jun 30 12:59:50 MohammadAG: I thought you got accepted? Jun 30 13:00:16 alterego, nope Jun 30 13:00:24 MohammadAG:there seems to be a "indicator menu extension" sample in system-ui/demos/plugins/call Jun 30 13:00:39 as well as demos/lugins/profile Jun 30 13:00:50 where are those? Jun 30 13:00:55 oh, source Jun 30 13:00:57 source package 'system-ui' Jun 30 13:01:06 yeah, realized that :p Jun 30 13:01:16 didn't know system-ui was open Jun 30 13:01:30 me neither, but this is one step forward. Jun 30 13:01:31 MohammadAG: Didn't you say you got an invite for a device? Jun 30 13:01:36 it has all of the usb dialogs Jun 30 13:01:44 so extending the "usb cable connected" dialog Jun 30 13:01:48 Jaffa, when did I say that? Jun 30 13:01:49 shall now be possible. Jun 30 13:02:14 javispedro, extending it on fremantle is possible Jun 30 13:02:19 just rewrite it, it's simple Jun 30 13:02:22 =) Jun 30 13:02:25 just some DBus and system() calls Jun 30 13:02:41 MohammadAG: I thought you said that earlier, and that was what the age stuff was about Jun 30 13:02:43 profile example, excellent Jun 30 13:02:53 Or is that Google+ shit? Jun 30 13:02:58 Hah Jun 30 13:03:04 Google+ Jun 30 13:03:08 Okay, that makes sense :D Jun 30 13:03:13 lol Jun 30 13:03:17 * javispedro reads the age stuff in backlog Jun 30 13:03:21 I don't have to be 18+ for a DDP :P Jun 30 13:03:39 MohammadAG: technically you have. NDA is after all legal agreement. Jun 30 13:03:53 javispedro, this isn't under an NDA Jun 30 13:03:57 hmmm Jun 30 13:04:02 There is a contract MohammadAG Jun 30 13:04:04 it's a loan Jun 30 13:04:05 N900 DDP was Jun 30 13:04:15 how do I know what my "Nokia Developer Id" is? Jun 30 13:04:19 it was a jokenda, but there was one Jun 30 13:05:03 MohammadAG: though, I wouldn't worry. After all, you're 18. Jun 30 13:05:21 * GAN900 sighs Jun 30 13:05:22 Yeah Jun 30 13:05:35 moo GAN900 Jun 30 13:05:39 javispedro, anyway, under local rules I'm allowed to make legal decisions Jun 30 13:05:45 Venemo, go here: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml Jun 30 13:05:46 Venemo: do you have a nokia developer account? Jun 30 13:05:46 Venemo: I wondered the same, I think it's the name up the top Jun 30 13:05:54 Nokia Developer application still hasn't gone through Jun 30 13:05:54 Venemo: it's the number AID-XXXXXXX Jun 30 13:05:57 actually allowed to do anything, besides renting cars *grumbles* Jun 30 13:06:28 GAN900: 210 denials sent by quim Jun 30 13:06:29 oh crap, I sent the wrong thing then Jun 30 13:06:31 GAN900, ? mine went straight through. Do you mean the Launchpad one? Jun 30 13:06:33 GAN900: consider yourself lucky. I'm still stuck in launchpad limbo Jun 30 13:06:36 where do you find that number then> Jun 30 13:06:48 umm, 3 different replies from 3 people Jun 30 13:06:50 and have been for the last half year.. Jun 30 13:06:52 aah, nokia devel Jun 30 13:06:59 alterego: where is that AID-??? thing located? Jun 30 13:07:04 if it means anything, I've just completed step 2 from the e-mail Jun 30 13:07:08 lardman, http://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml Jun 30 13:07:10 lardman: https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml Jun 30 13:07:11 Termana, yeah, I've been to that page Jun 30 13:07:18 lardman: it's the first box on the left "Account ID" Jun 30 13:08:11 Venemo, ^ what alterego just said. Isn't yours there? Jun 30 13:08:29 qgil is already karmawhoring in f.m.c, he really knows how to do it. Jun 30 13:08:43 haha Jun 30 13:08:49 Hahah Jun 30 13:08:51 lmao Jun 30 13:08:58 javispedro: For the day when karma's introduced? ;-) Jun 30 13:09:18 according to http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n950-press-shots/#4243193 and my poor math there are ~120 devices for 240 applicants yet Jun 30 13:09:23 Re: NDA - you accept a click through NDA when you sign up for a premium developer account. Although half of you probably didn't read that Jun 30 13:09:37 Heh Jun 30 13:09:41 I wish I could import my tmo thanks to fmc :P Jun 30 13:09:46 Termana: the NDA is also at the bottom of the page ;) Jun 30 13:09:52 ah, yeah! I got it Jun 30 13:09:54 Termana: the premium_profile.xhtml page that is. Jun 30 13:09:55 thanks Termana, alterego Jun 30 13:09:56 Jaffa: Maybe he knows a future Meego handset maker _will_ use Karma ;) Jun 30 13:09:56 thanks alterego & Termana Jun 30 13:10:01 np Jun 30 13:10:06 javispedro, where is he karmawhoring? Jun 30 13:10:08 DocScrutinizer: according to Engadget what? O.o Jun 30 13:10:14 meh Jun 30 13:10:16 mce: f.m.c = forum.meego.com Jun 30 13:10:19 er.. Jun 30 13:10:21 mece^^ Jun 30 13:10:21 javispedro, yeah Jun 30 13:10:36 javispedro, I meant is it any post in particular? Jun 30 13:10:36 http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24212&postcount=184 Jun 30 13:10:46 DocScrutinizer: ah, wrong link, ok *relief* Jun 30 13:10:54 mece: the devkit thread ;) Jun 30 13:11:03 according to http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24212&postcount=184 and my poor math there are ~120 devices for 240 applicants yet Jun 30 13:11:20 alterego, after doing step 2, do I have to wait for the answer for my mail to do step 3? Jun 30 13:11:37 DocScrutinizer, that is still an 1/2 chance, not bad. Jun 30 13:11:41 Venemo, I don't think you have to do step 3 Jun 30 13:11:50 why not mece? Jun 30 13:11:52 Doc: not 120, 40. Jun 30 13:11:54 Venemo: after sending your AID to quim, just wait. Jun 30 13:11:58 OUCH Jun 30 13:12:00 alterego, ok Jun 30 13:12:01 Venemo, wait.. hm Jun 30 13:12:13 "Wireless Keyboard For HP TouchPad. iPad sold separately." Jun 30 13:12:16 210 + 240 = 450 Jun 30 13:12:16 ah nevermind, adds up Jun 30 13:12:20 RST38h: how 40? Jun 30 13:12:29 250-210=40 Jun 30 13:12:33 hey, I didn't check my email's junk box Jun 30 13:12:46 RST38h: wut? those 210 were denials Jun 30 13:12:47 MohammadAG, mine ended up in spam Jun 30 13:12:51 yep, my junk filter also filtered it Jun 30 13:13:07 * MohammadAG gulps Jun 30 13:13:18 MohammadAG, well? Jun 30 13:13:32 Doc: I think we are reading it differently Jun 30 13:13:41 alterego, whoops. I already applied for the Launchpad account and it seems others have as well Jun 30 13:13:42 mece, I'm sure I wasn't accepted yet, but I'm not sure if I got a rejection email Jun 30 13:13:53 i got no mail so far Jun 30 13:13:55 MohammadAG, gulp indeed Jun 30 13:13:55 Termana: I have, in march Jun 30 13:14:03 my gmail's clean, /me checks his hotmail Jun 30 13:14:06 alterego, so, should I apply to this launchpad thing or not? Jun 30 13:14:08 alterego: and yours was approved? Jun 30 13:14:10 RST38h: >>Email sent to 210 participants not accepted in the N950 program.<< how can we read that differently? Jun 30 13:14:13 Termana: way before this, I don't think that will matter, I think we should just wait a few hours for some news. Jun 30 13:14:13 i would like to recieve any kind of mail Jun 30 13:14:18 javispedro: nope. Jun 30 13:14:20 just to be over with it :/ Jun 30 13:14:27 alterego: nice to have someone in the club! Jun 30 13:14:29 Venemo: no, just wait. Jun 30 13:14:31 Venemo, I already applied there actually, come to think about it, so I guess qgil will just tell them to accept my application. Jun 30 13:14:34 ok alterego Jun 30 13:14:38 javispedro: w00t__ is in the same situation ;) Jun 30 13:14:42 good, no rejections Jun 30 13:14:48 alterego: I applied in january to launchpad Jun 30 13:14:56 javispedro: Hah :) Jun 30 13:15:03 javispedro, :D Jun 30 13:15:07 Yeah, I applied earlier this year, march or before. Jun 30 13:15:19 no answer from them, no answer from support, no answer from noone Jun 30 13:15:27 w00t__: apparently applied too, I guess none of us have had any acceptance emails. I've still got the one saying "please be patient" :D Jun 30 13:15:30 I applied the same day I applied to meego.com Jun 30 13:15:34 maybe I should start testing my tcp face-punching application. Jun 30 13:15:45 Heh Jun 30 13:16:02 Ah, maybe we could share some code, I was working on a UDP honey badger application Jun 30 13:16:07 RST38h: my math is like: 250devices -~130names_on_accepted_list = 120devices_left Jun 30 13:16:13 mece: so you hold the longest launchpad waiting time world record? when did you sign up? Jun 30 13:16:40 hmm, I read it that we do have to do step 3 after responding with out AID thing Jun 30 13:16:47 s/out/our Jun 30 13:16:52 I'm confused. Jun 30 13:16:56 RST38h: >>240 proposals are still in the game.<< means 120 devices for 240 proposals Jun 30 13:17:13 Ah ok Jun 30 13:17:15 javispedro, no no I meant the same day I signed up for community device Jun 30 13:17:20 * RST38h misunderstood Jun 30 13:17:28 mece: bah, you newbie ;D Jun 30 13:17:33 Heh Jun 30 13:17:43 So, who wants to share their AIDs? Jun 30 13:17:45 DocScrutinizer, 210 rejections sent, 130 names in the accepted list, and 530 total applications. meaning: 190 applications for 110 devices remain Jun 30 13:17:48 * alterego chuckles Jun 30 13:17:49 yup, I got that mail, alterego Jun 30 13:17:52 alterego, lol Jun 30 13:17:52 lardman: "You are already a member of this program, there is no need to re-apply. " Jun 30 13:17:55 javispedro, yep. Although I think I might have applied for other devices, because I already had an account there. I don't remember which though. Possibly N900 Jun 30 13:18:10 w00t__: I hope their systems can cope with it ; Jun 30 13:18:13 oooooooooh. Jun 30 13:18:14 Venemo: >>240 proposals are still in the game.<< Jun 30 13:18:26 my premium_registration form is prefilled with what I think was the stuff I put on my launchpad application Jun 30 13:18:34 Come one guys, I want your AIDs! Jun 30 13:18:35 DocScrutinizer, aah. that is a contradiction Jun 30 13:18:40 so it was not sent to the trash! Jun 30 13:18:40 yeah that sounds right javispedro Jun 30 13:18:41 javispedro, that's the one. Jun 30 13:18:43 alterego: they probably dealt with it by redirecting all mail to /dev/null :) Jun 30 13:18:47 * Termana gives alterego lots and lots of AIDs Jun 30 13:19:01 w00t__: I don't think they have /dev/null on MSDN Jun 30 13:19:08 s/MSDN/Nokia Developer/ Jun 30 13:19:08 alterego meant: w00t__: I don't think they have /dev/null on Nokia Developer Jun 30 13:19:18 alterego: they have $NUL Jun 30 13:19:22 er... NUL: Jun 30 13:19:34 alterego: interesting slip of the finger/tongue Jun 30 13:19:46 :p Jun 30 13:19:47 lardman: I'm just saying it how I see it. Jun 30 13:19:49 MSDN *is* NULL: Jun 30 13:19:51 ;) Jun 30 13:19:59 alterego, "In this restaurant, the hamburger deluxe comes with french fries, lettuce, tomato, mayo, and AIDS." Jun 30 13:20:06 lardman: Makes the transition from Nokia Developer to Microsoft Developer Network easier .. Jun 30 13:20:17 well the look is already there Jun 30 13:20:28 Even the API docs are MSDN-esque :/ Jun 30 13:21:38 and the forum icons are wp7's Jun 30 13:21:58 this is not a hidden conspiracy, it's all on the light. Jun 30 13:21:59 Heh Jun 30 13:22:06 Indeed. Jun 30 13:22:25 I actually wouldn't be suprised if an MS aquisition goes through Jun 30 13:22:37 DocScrutinizer, actually, MSDN has very good documentation on their stuff Jun 30 13:22:40 But it could only pass through the EUC if their stock is worthless. Jun 30 13:22:44 Oh wait ... Jun 30 13:23:51 What does Quim Gil mean when finish the letter with the sentense "We hope you enjoy your flight! :)"? Should we flight to Finland in order to get N950? :) Jun 30 13:23:53 alterego: though if you are to follow the count of posts, virtually more people are interested in webtv than wp7 =) Jun 30 13:24:22 divan: it's tongue-in-cheek Jun 30 13:24:25 Heh Jun 30 13:24:27 divan, yes, didn't you know that what apart of the deal? You can only use it in Finland Jun 30 13:24:27 divan, it's a proverb Jun 30 13:24:33 s/what/was Jun 30 13:24:37 or perhaps an expression of how fantastic using the device will be Jun 30 13:24:38 ah, I was unsure, thanks ) Jun 30 13:24:53 what's outside temperatue in finland? Jun 30 13:24:57 today? Jun 30 13:25:07 It's going to be so fun demoing the phone with "Developer Edition" plastered all over the UX Jun 30 13:25:21 yeah, makes you look like a badass Jun 30 13:25:35 alterego, and PROPERTY OF NOKIA on the back. You'll be locked up Jun 30 13:25:45 alterego, is it plastered all over the UX? Jun 30 13:25:47 hmm, so after sending the wrong info in reply to the email, then sending the right info, and applyiing for launchpad, what happens next? Jun 30 13:25:58 alterego, does it have developer edition plastered all across the UI? Jun 30 13:25:58 lardman, you play a nice game of wait Jun 30 13:26:12 you evolve into the next plane of existence Jun 30 13:26:13 alterego: it's going to be so fun reflashing the phone to meego ce :) Jun 30 13:26:22 lardman: I don't know I did the same :D Jun 30 13:26:34 sandst1: yup :) Jun 30 13:26:34 Have you had a reply from Launchpad yet? Jun 30 13:26:43 sandst1: I've heard it works really well. Jun 30 13:26:50 lardman, reply to what? Jun 30 13:27:00 launchpad application Jun 30 13:27:03 alterego: tried it last week, quite smooooth Jun 30 13:27:15 lardman: no reply yet, apparently it normally takes 1-2 days Jun 30 13:27:20 sandst1: Of course, the covenant is that you're getting this device to put at least one app in apps.meego.com :-p Jun 30 13:27:26 sandst1: ah ok, thanks Jun 30 13:27:57 lardman, no reply for me Jun 30 13:28:05 Venemo, settings app, top status menu, back of the device says not for sale Jun 30 13:28:44 can one flash the non developer edition software to that thing? Jun 30 13:29:01 MohammadAG, "not for sale" on the back is actually fun Jun 30 13:29:10 hahah indeed Jun 30 13:29:11 possibly Jun 30 13:29:16 bad thing is, you can't downgrade Jun 30 13:29:36 you can make fun of those who cant get one with that sticker, thats for sure :) Jun 30 13:30:04 trx, no one can get one without the sticker Jun 30 13:30:36 Venemo, see the top here http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/nokia_n950_developer_edition-580x435.jpg ? Jun 30 13:30:38 Jaffa: yup :) Jun 30 13:30:40 Termana i meant other people that would like to buy/get one but cant Jun 30 13:30:58 MohammadAG, I see... but, is that final? and is it non-removable? Jun 30 13:31:23 why? it makes you feel special :p Jun 30 13:31:25 I think Venemo is worried he will be arrested... :p Jun 30 13:31:30 hehehe Jun 30 13:31:40 hm, one question though Jun 30 13:31:58 my favourite photo of n950: http://habrastorage.org/storage1/129a08e4/ac6bea14/647598e2/6f9459fd.jpg Jun 30 13:32:09 can I actually use the device for personal use until it's with me? (provided that I take good care of it) Jun 30 13:32:26 Venemo: No, you can't use it until you have it(?!) Jun 30 13:32:30 You do not have the required access rights to the page you were trying to access. <<< w8 and see Jun 30 13:32:35 my favourite photo of the n950 would be one taken where the n950 is on my desk :P Jun 30 13:32:37 Jaffa, I was asking, "until it's with me" Jun 30 13:32:42 divan, nice indeed Jun 30 13:32:45 Venemo: You mean "*whilst* it's with me"? Jun 30 13:32:48 sandst1 ++ Jun 30 13:33:01 Jaffa, hmmm... yeah, I think that's what I meant Jun 30 13:33:06 lol Jun 30 13:33:14 Jaffa, "while" it is with me? Jun 30 13:33:15 I was getting confused too Jun 30 13:33:23 * Venemo is not a native English speaker Jun 30 13:33:25 no, it'll take out a laser and kill you Jun 30 13:33:26 while and whilst are pretty interchangable Jun 30 13:33:33 Venemo: OK, yes. You can use it for personal purposes. Otherwise how will you know what apps scratch your itches? Jun 30 13:33:45 Venemo: What lardman said about "whilst" and "while" Jun 30 13:33:46 nokia profiles are still outdated, eh. Jun 30 13:33:56 I kinda like that they allow me to say I stil develop for the PalmOS. Jun 30 13:34:01 Venemo: "until it's with me" would mean the period of time *before* you got it. Jun 30 13:34:01 Jaffa, so I can slap in my SIM card and take it with me like I would a normal personal device? Jun 30 13:34:13 Jaffa, okay, thanks for the correction. Jun 30 13:34:27 Venemo: Yes. That's the intention, use it as much as possible! Jun 30 13:34:35 Jaffa, I think I meant "while" it is me, meaning during the period it is with me Jun 30 13:34:49 The loan agreement does say you won't publicise deficiencies. So that'd impact anyone planning a negative review ;-) Jun 30 13:35:00 heheh Jun 30 13:35:21 I only wish I could somehow keep it, or maybe buy it for a discount after the loan. Jun 30 13:35:33 Jaffa, what does it say about how long the loan is? Jun 30 13:35:44 mece, nothing exact Jun 30 13:35:47 mece: It doesn't specify a timescale, AFAICS Jun 30 13:36:02 what if one loses their phone? Jun 30 13:36:03 Jaffa, so it defaults to" infinity" Jun 30 13:36:13 mece, Quim only posted in the thread that basically while they know that the device is in good hands with you, you can have it Jun 30 13:36:15 will nokia just ensure that it's banned from all carriers? Jun 30 13:36:51 Choom, I doubt anything will happen, other than the fact that you won't have the phone anymore Jun 30 13:37:00 Choom, if you lose it? they will shoot you, then slice you into 4 pieces and put them on display with a caption "this is what happens if you lose an N950" Jun 30 13:37:04 Venemo, that's sweet Jun 30 13:37:18 lol Jun 30 13:37:20 fuu. I've got to go. Jun 30 13:37:21 tata Jun 30 13:37:31 mece: so what if you claim to have lost / destroyed it unintentionally? does that mean you get to keep it? Jun 30 13:37:33 cya mece Jun 30 13:37:48 mece: The exact terms are: "14. Returns. Nokia may request return of the Product at any time. Upon such request, You will promptly and in a secure manner return the Product to Nokia or its designee. [...]" Jun 30 13:38:15 what if you don't? Jun 30 13:38:21 Choom, well if it's broken it's broken. Lost at sea might be a good idea.. Jun 30 13:38:24 * divan is buying second N900 today btw :) Jun 30 13:38:30 Choom: they send in the black helicopters Jun 30 13:38:36 Choom, they could sue you for it I suppose Jun 30 13:38:37 divan: MINE!! Jun 30 13:38:39 Choom, you might be lawyered, who knows. I doubt anything will happen tho. Jun 30 13:38:41 Choom: It goes on to say it is designated "lost" Jun 30 13:38:46 DocScrutinizer, you late ) Jun 30 13:38:52 ALL MINE!! Jun 30 13:39:02 ;-) Jun 30 13:39:05 LOL Jun 30 13:39:08 Jaffa: so does that mean it gets banned from all carriers? Jun 30 13:39:09 ok rlly gonna go now. tata Jun 30 13:39:15 though I believe Elop is reserving the black helicopters to ensure extermination of all Meego developers and users when the first Nokia Wp7 is announced. Jun 30 13:39:18 Choom: I can't see if they define what happens in that situation; but you'll be in Breach of Contract. Lawyering is possible, but - as mece says - seems unlikely Jun 30 13:39:39 Choom: It's a legal clause; it means anything & nothing. Jun 30 13:39:52 I don;t know why people start asking this sort of question Jun 30 13:39:53 Choom, just do what your meant to do with it and you'll be fine Jun 30 13:39:57 Otherwise Jun 30 13:39:58 +! Jun 30 13:39:59 I kill you Jun 30 13:40:00 +1 Jun 30 13:40:02 :P Jun 30 13:40:12 heh Jun 30 13:40:40 I surely hope that at the end we can have either the N950, or can buy it, or something, or maybe a discounted N9? whatever. Jun 30 13:40:46 lardman: I'm just wondering how they protect themselves in these situations, nothing else Jun 30 13:41:05 Choom, they sue your pants off Jun 30 13:41:19 how do the 'know that the device is in a good hands'? Is there good hands sensor on N950? Jun 30 13:41:21 ^) Jun 30 13:41:54 Venemo, you can keep the N950 or trade it for an N9 afaik Jun 30 13:41:58 Venemo: alterego says qgil said that on the launch of the N9, recipients of the N950 would be able to swap Jun 30 13:42:02 which is a touch decision Jun 30 13:42:04 tough* Jun 30 13:42:08 Aye Jun 30 13:42:19 * javispedro will probably swap Jun 30 13:42:20 alterego: sed -i "s/DEVELOPER EDITION/ALTEREGO SPECIAL/g" * Jun 30 13:42:29 I like the screen of the N9, the extra storage, and want NFC Jun 30 13:42:30 DocScrutinizer: :) Jun 30 13:42:30 javispedro: I'll try using VKB in terminal etc. Jun 30 13:42:42 I like the keyboard of the N950 Jun 30 13:42:43 MohammadAG: I don't think it's tough, I'd prefer the N9, better support. Jun 30 13:42:45 MohammadAG: Of course, there's no guarantee the swap won't be for a 16GB N9 :-( Jun 30 13:42:46 Choom: I'd guess that they would sue to give you a scare, but equally and more importantly if you piss about then you will get a bad name and that's it for you w/ Nokia Jun 30 13:42:53 I'll keep the N900 for typing .. Jun 30 13:42:54 divan: that's what they've got the Swipe UI for. It asserts that the devices can only be used with good hands Jun 30 13:42:59 MohammadAG, Jaffa: yeah, alterego said that. but we don't know if at that time it would still be a loan or you could just own the device. Jun 30 13:43:02 alterego: Bluemaemo as the keyboard for an N9? ;-) Jun 30 13:43:11 Venemo: I think you're overworrying. Jun 30 13:43:12 Jaffa: sure, and I've got my bluetooth keyboard. Jun 30 13:43:23 Venemo: Just look at what happened with the Amsterdam N900s. Jun 30 13:43:40 they lost their USBs Jun 30 13:43:42 what happened to them? Jun 30 13:43:44 :P Jun 30 13:43:45 MohammadAG: :-) Jun 30 13:43:47 MohammadAG, :P Jun 30 13:43:49 I had a strange phonecall from Nokia warranty wondering if I'd stolen one Jun 30 13:43:50 alterego: on a somewhat related topic: what's the state of things about the meego community device? Jun 30 13:43:53 Venemo, everyone has kept theirs Jun 30 13:43:57 Venemo: I don't know anyone who returned it, or got chased up to return it. Jun 30 13:44:01 alterego: cancelled? Jun 30 13:44:03 Termana, for free? Jun 30 13:44:06 DocScrutinizer: no, not cancelled Jun 30 13:44:09 alterego: for N950/N9? Jun 30 13:44:09 Venemo, ... yes Jun 30 13:44:11 the USB loss? yes, it was free Jun 30 13:44:15 lol Jun 30 13:44:17 Termana, that is good enough for me :) Jun 30 13:44:31 not quite free, you had to expend some energy shoving the cable in and out a few times Jun 30 13:44:32 DocScrutinizer: still WIP, apparently a lot has been going on about, still need to touch base with the project leader. Jun 30 13:44:33 so basically, the N950 will probably do the same Jun 30 13:44:34 MohammadAG, xD Jun 30 13:44:39 swap it for an N9, or it'll explode Jun 30 13:44:53 alterego: I'd love to join the team Jun 30 13:45:13 DocScrutinizer: when things start moving you'll be there ;) Jun 30 13:45:14 MohammadAG, Jokes on you - new meaning to time bombed software, it interacts with hardware too now Jun 30 13:45:21 actually, it's a no-brainer. choosing between a limited run developer-only exclusive device (of which only a few hundred exists on the planet) versus an overhyped mass market device. Jun 30 13:45:32 Termana, I wasn't accepted, joke's on you!!! Jun 30 13:45:35 * MohammadAG adds a yet Jun 30 13:45:42 alterego: My contributions fail to take effect when coming in late Jun 30 13:45:56 MohammadAG, maybe you haven't been accepted yet because the gold plating on your N960 hasn't been completed yet. Jun 30 13:45:58 MohammadAG, don't jinx yourself ;) Jun 30 13:46:12 alterego: like "ohwell, let's fix this hw issue for next version" Jun 30 13:46:14 Venemo: There's a golden N960? Jun 30 13:46:17 Termana, well, 3 days ago I was saying I think I won't get a device Jun 30 13:46:19 DocScrutinizer: still very early stage at the moment ;) Jun 30 13:46:20 sandst1, yep, for MohammadAG Jun 30 13:46:23 I think I already jinx'd myself Jun 30 13:46:30 :P Jun 30 13:46:35 Venemo: ah :P Jun 30 13:46:51 lol Jun 30 13:46:56 Venemo, I think I'd keep the developer device and BUY an N9 :p You can't BUY an N950 Jun 30 13:47:01 surely they will need someone for the Harmattan Community SSU, so maybe they'll just send MohammadAG a device when that need arises Jun 30 13:47:17 Termana: if that's a possibility, I'll do the same ;) Jun 30 13:47:26 Venemo, then I should've had it ten months ago, I don't know how to crack aegis Jun 30 13:47:32 Termana, yep. I'd keep the N950, but I wouldn't have money for an N9. Jun 30 13:47:38 alterego: joining in and keeping up doesn't hurt, starting to contribute as soon as project reaching a state where it makes sense to do so Jun 30 13:47:41 MohammadAG, what is aegis? Jun 30 13:47:48 your next nightmare Jun 30 13:47:51 Please don't talk about aegis Jun 30 13:47:58 The channel will implode Jun 30 13:47:59 MohammadAG :D Jun 30 13:48:00 alterego: other way round usually results in me being in late Jun 30 13:48:06 srsly, what is it Jun 30 13:48:11 DocScrutinizer: well, when I talk to him next, I'll mention it, we realy need to get a proper communications channel in operation. Jun 30 13:48:16 So we can all work together. Jun 30 13:48:20 Venemo, apart of the DRM scheme Jun 30 13:48:26 alterego: agree Jun 30 13:48:35 Termana, what does it actually do? Jun 30 13:48:42 Venemo, Security framework Jun 30 13:48:50 alterego, proper communications channel for what? Jun 30 13:48:54 drop a binary somewhere, execute it, get Operation not permitted Jun 30 13:48:57 Venemo: your mom! :P Jun 30 13:49:02 Aegis has to approve your binary Jun 30 13:49:06 I've gotta go, bbiab Jun 30 13:49:08 alterego, my mom, again? Jun 30 13:49:15 MohammadAG, chmod +x? Jun 30 13:49:19 ttyl alterego Jun 30 13:49:27 ciao Jun 30 13:50:04 Venemo, you thought it was that easy? Jun 30 13:50:11 MohammadAG, yep Jun 30 13:50:13 Venemo: aegis refuses to run binaries not installed there by package manager. Jun 30 13:50:14 it lives in kernel space, not user space Jun 30 13:50:22 I already said, it's your next nightmare Jun 30 13:50:26 oh my god Jun 30 13:50:38 this is a ridiculous limitation for a dev device. Jun 30 13:50:39 can I just uninstall it? Jun 30 13:50:46 It's like the second coming of abill_uk. Jun 30 13:50:51 lol Jun 30 13:50:52 a horrible nightmare. Jun 30 13:51:05 Currently I'm running a self compiled app without doing anything special. Don't make it too special. Jun 30 13:51:12 Venemo, hah, uninstall it, hahahahaa Jun 30 13:51:30 you can switch to open mode, and lose some apps in the process Jun 30 13:51:39 you can't run a custom kernel without open mode Jun 30 13:51:41 MohammadAG: You don't have to do that. Jun 30 13:52:21 hay Jun 30 13:52:32 is today the last day to apply for the N9 dev kit? Jun 30 13:52:42 cloudyLights, already closed Jun 30 13:52:43 I was sure I got one more month Jun 30 13:52:47 when? Jun 30 13:52:58 lol *rolls over in grave* Jun 30 13:53:01 X-Fade, hmm? Jun 30 13:53:04 yesterday/today Jun 30 13:53:08 it's closed already Jun 30 13:53:24 cloudyLights: apply as an open source dev, or commercial? Jun 30 13:53:39 MohammadAG: I just installed from an untrusted source, that works fine. Jun 30 13:54:00 javispedro: open source Jun 30 13:54:08 AEGIS AEGIS AEGIS AEGIS AEGIS AEGIS WUHAHAHAHAAAAHAAA Jun 30 13:54:14 toldya Jun 30 13:54:20 cloudyLights: closed Jun 30 13:54:24 nobody did listen Jun 30 13:54:27 bah, I give up trying to figure out libisi and the rest of the telephony stack Jun 30 13:54:51 DocScrutinizer, EVERYONE. DUN. GOOFED. Well, no one has actually confirmed it's there yet Jun 30 13:55:01 Although there was that aegisfs thing Jun 30 13:55:06 some very fuzzy cloudy rumour has it they'll nuke aegis for N9 Jun 30 13:55:15 aegis is there Jun 30 13:55:27 Oh lord, the sky is FALLIN Jun 30 13:55:40 it's *mostly* disabled so not as bad as it could have been, but still Jun 30 13:55:52 achipa, so, what, if MADDE copies over a binary to the N950 and tries to execute it, will Aegis let it do that? Jun 30 13:56:04 Venemo: That is no problem at all. Jun 30 13:56:15 DocScrutinizer: sounds kinda like selinux? Jun 30 13:56:24 WAAAY worse Jun 30 13:56:29 note that I'm not using MADDE's packaging features, just the mode where it just copies the binary Jun 30 13:56:32 this is trusted platform shit Jun 30 13:56:45 hey, SELinux CAN be tamed, and disabled Jun 30 13:56:51 how deep does it go? locked bootloader? Jun 30 13:56:55 yep Jun 30 13:56:56 untrusted you mean Jun 30 13:57:03 selinux is useful Jun 30 13:57:04 I don't trust it Jun 30 13:57:08 :p Jun 30 13:57:15 completely armed implementation Jun 30 13:57:22 javispedro: are you in-charge/ Jun 30 13:57:23 ? Jun 30 13:57:35 cloudyLights: nope Jun 30 13:57:42 DocScrutinizer: so what about open mode, can you overwrite the bootloader then? Jun 30 13:57:45 I have SELinux on my F15, and it never stopped me from doing what I want. Jun 30 13:57:45 Venemo: not by default Jun 30 13:57:51 achipa, ? Jun 30 13:58:03 DUDE# Jun 30 13:58:04 Venemo: scp over binary and run Jun 30 13:58:07 YOU HAVE AN F15??? Jun 30 13:58:07 pabs3: of course, but then your device is a brick Jun 30 13:58:22 crashanddie, ba dum tsss Jun 30 13:58:30 achipa, yes, that's what MADDE does, isn't it? Jun 30 13:58:57 Venemo: sorta. currently it goes through the package manager, which is aegis-enabled Jun 30 13:58:57 Venemo: there's some kind of "devel-su" thing, yet to test it cause it seems to be only in real device Jun 30 13:59:07 DocScrutinizer: eh? how so? does the ROM verify the bootloader? Jun 30 13:59:11 crashanddie, yeah, he's a lucky bastard, I only have F1-F12!!! Jun 30 13:59:12 yes Jun 30 13:59:19 achipa, well, that "feature" is the first thing I disable in Qt Creator Jun 30 13:59:53 ugh, I guess on the off chance I get an N950 in the dev thing I will reject it Jun 30 13:59:53 pabs3: toldya, complete implementation, rock solid Jun 30 14:00:03 MohammadAG, I've got F-all. Jun 30 14:00:18 * pabs3 goes looking for Android dev programs Jun 30 14:00:32 they don't have any! Jun 30 14:00:38 pabs3: that's been my reaction as well Jun 30 14:00:55 achipa, could you please help me a bit with the Harmattan SDK? Jun 30 14:01:06 javispedro, unless you show up at their stupid shindig and then they give them out to all the pansies in the crowd Jun 30 14:01:11 probably I'll burn my fingers touching tha piece from hell Jun 30 14:01:30 Termana: overrated. I showed up at the Android booth in MWC and I didn't left with a device. Jun 30 14:01:32 DocScrutinizer: And still you piss and moan around here. Isn't it time for you to just leave? Jun 30 14:01:50 not really, there's hope still Jun 30 14:01:56 * pabs3 goes to mail quim Jun 30 14:02:01 and I didn't notice I moaned Jun 30 14:02:09 pabs3, you aren't SERIOUS are you? Jun 30 14:02:43 I guess they'll be helping push the LaunchPad applications through as part of the process? Jun 30 14:02:55 Termana: well, an unlocked bootloader is kinda essential to the project I proposed, so if it isn't available, then he should reject my application Jun 30 14:02:58 X-Fade: au contraire, I'm still willing to actually burn my fingers if quim thinks I should do Jun 30 14:03:08 guys, that's like saying if I can't have a strawberry cake *WITH MINT*, then I'd rather eat a 2 month old cookie Jun 30 14:03:23 DocScrutinizer: I'm pretty sure that if people read the backscroll, you won't get anything. Jun 30 14:03:24 GAN900, you would assume so. Unless it's a big conspiracy and you never get one because they never approve the Launchpad account Jun 30 14:03:26 GAN900: I guess the Launchpad guys will receive a list of numbers to enable and that's that Jun 30 14:03:34 :shrug: Jun 30 14:03:38 why? Jun 30 14:03:43 I doubt anyone outside of Nokia will ever be able to do anything to the telephony stack except tinker around the edges or make use of the few tidbits of information Nokia have published like libcsnet-dev :( Jun 30 14:03:53 so eerybody here got one Jun 30 14:04:02 so, I start Xephyr with 'Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 854x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite &', then I issue '/scratchbox/login' and 'meego-sb-session start' in another terminal Jun 30 14:04:08 but the Xephyr window stays empty Jun 30 14:04:19 I'm doing this on the HARMATTAN_X86 target Jun 30 14:04:28 X-Fade: calling aegis a hell spawn doesn't look like a personal insult to me Jun 30 14:04:37 DocScrutinizer: was the N900 also bootloader locked? Jun 30 14:04:38 weirdly, it works from HARMATTAN_ARMEL Jun 30 14:04:49 pabs3: first stage yes Jun 30 14:04:54 jonwil, what are you talking about? Harmattan's or Fremantle's telephony stack? Otherwise, ofono will work fine for either the N900 or N950/N9. Jun 30 14:04:57 pabs3: 2nd stage aka NOLO not Jun 30 14:05:03 Fremantle stack Jun 30 14:05:06 X-Fade: are u mad because doc called aegis gay? Jun 30 14:05:07 cloudyLights, no Jun 30 14:05:12 ofono works fine for small values of " Jun 30 14:05:15 of "fine" Jun 30 14:05:29 specifically it works fine if and only if you are completly replacing half the system Jun 30 14:06:11 pabs3, what's the project you proposed. You will still be able to load another distro on there or whatever Jun 30 14:06:21 s/proposed/proposed?/ Jun 30 14:06:22 Termana meant: pabs3, what's the project you proposed?. You will still be able to load another distro on there or whatever Jun 30 14:06:33 pabs3: there were users editing NOLO to get rid of NOKIA bootscreen Jun 30 14:06:36 worked Jun 30 14:06:44 won't work on N950 Jun 30 14:07:03 hmm, can't open any sites in firefox Jun 30 14:07:12 DocScrutinizer: does that mean I can have a tux bootscreen? Jun 30 14:07:13 I'd call my ISP, but they'd probably say the internet is down Jun 30 14:07:31 something is really messed up in my SDK :( Jun 30 14:07:45 vi__: on N900 NOLO you probably could, if you figured the image format of the NOLO screen Jun 30 14:08:00 err NOKIA screen of NOLO Jun 30 14:08:01 Termana: Debian stuff Jun 30 14:08:21 so yeah replacing maemo stack with ofono is not going to happen hence why being able to play with the existing stack would be very useful... Jun 30 14:08:21 pabs3, that will still work Jun 30 14:09:11 jonwil, well sure, if your going to stay on maemo 5 then it's not a good choice Jun 30 14:09:18 Where's the maemo dbus docs on the wiki? Jun 30 14:09:25 lardman: what is the name of that deamon : prox...? Jun 30 14:09:28 But, I don't see much reason to do that Jun 30 14:09:39 proximus Jun 30 14:09:44 I am staying on maemo because there is no better option for the N900 yet Jun 30 14:09:50 thanks Jun 30 14:09:51 still wip though Jun 30 14:09:59 and there is unlikely to be one anytime soon Jun 30 14:10:45 given that, messing with the maemo cell stack is the only option available unless you are willing to sacrifice functionality and/or live on the bleeding edge Jun 30 14:11:00 Neither of which I plan to do on my main phone Jun 30 14:11:01 X-Fade: please tell me what I did wrong. I'm not bitching on anything except aegis intentionally, Sorry if you got that different Jun 30 14:11:22 Why does nokia want this security system anyway? Jun 30 14:11:36 THAT is a good question Jun 30 14:12:04 * pabs3 imagines they do it for most Symbian/etc phones Jun 30 14:12:28 carriers, drm Jun 30 14:13:04 I am sorry I didnt apply before Jun 30 14:13:38 carriers (wireless and wired) need to realize that the world is moving towards a situation where they are just dumb pipes and stop standing in the way of that move Jun 30 14:13:39 was too occupied with my application and this new job Jun 30 14:13:45 jonwil: The N9 was *going* to be Nokia's flagship consumer-focused phone. One of the justifications for Aegis given in Amsterdam was for protecting video content purchased online. Jun 30 14:14:19 I can easily see another justification as well: protecting the user from applications Jun 30 14:14:30 should there ever have been a big application marketplace Jun 30 14:15:08 although I wonder if aegis really would be able to do that.. Jun 30 14:16:02 hiemanshu, ping Jun 30 14:19:12 anyway, the point of #meego, cssu and etc is not to replace Fremantle but to find ways to make Fremantle better. Part of that may well mean reverse engineering some of the Nokia stuff and figuring out how it works or how to talk to it :) Jun 30 14:19:38 Jaffa, speaking of which, does this aegis thing exist in the N95? Jun 30 14:19:44 honestly I wonder why X-Fade gone mad on me - maybe I may post a link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jun 30 14:19:44 jonwil, what's the point? just use MeeGo CE. Jun 30 14:19:47 MohammadAG: N95 or M950? Jun 30 14:19:56 s/M9/N9/ Jun 30 14:19:56 Jaffa meant: MohammadAG: N95 or N950? Jun 30 14:20:12 Jaffa, N95 Jun 30 14:20:34 that thing had dcf files which wouldn't play on other devices Jun 30 14:20:34 MohammadAG: The 3 year old Symbian phone? Jun 30 14:20:39 MeeGo CE is NOT a viable replacement for Fremantle Jun 30 14:20:42 * vi__ ***cough***someone leak the code to all fremantle components***cough*** Jun 30 14:20:50 jonwil, why is that? Jun 30 14:20:51 thought it was 5 Jun 30 14:21:02 MohammadAG: Oh, no. Aegis is built on top of POSIX permissions, chroots and users Jun 30 14:21:05 MohammadAG, it's a 2007 device, so 4 years old Jun 30 14:21:06 MohammadAG: I was going to say 5 ;-) Jun 30 14:21:07 hmm, quim suggested I ask about the bootloader stuff on meego-handset Jun 30 14:21:12 Jaffa: chroots? Jun 30 14:21:22 Jaffa: obscure black magic, I would say. :( Jun 30 14:21:22 vi__: Why? Couldn't be used in CSSU if it was Jun 30 14:21:49 MeeGo CE does not have all the features of Fremantle Jun 30 14:21:56 I suspect the point of Aegis wasn't for the N9. Jun 30 14:21:59 frals: Well, true. The *design* of it was quite sensible, but could be used for good or ill (from our PoV) - that's the impression I got in Amsterdam anyway Jun 30 14:22:08 * lardman heads for home to write a paper Jun 30 14:22:12 jonwil, which one is easier? to enhance MeeGo CE for your needs or to reverse-engineer Fremantle? Jun 30 14:22:12 catch you tomorrow all Jun 30 14:22:15 SpeedEvil: It was; but remember the point of N9 changed after Feb 11th Jun 30 14:22:16 It was designed at a time when _all_ future phones were going to be meego. Jun 30 14:22:22 jaffa appart from your own morals who will stop you? No one cares for this old device. Also it gives you a SERIOUS headstart WRT to rewriting closed parts. Jun 30 14:22:24 SpeedEvil: Well, true - good point. Jun 30 14:22:31 jonwil, also, you can use Cordia with MeeGo CE which provides Fremantle's UX Jun 30 14:22:31 jonwil, are you kidding? The point of #meego is not to make fremantle better Jun 30 14:22:34 vi__: Copyright law, for one. Jun 30 14:22:49 So it's kinda like a nuclear bomber that's ended up being deployed to keep kids off the lawn. Jun 30 14:22:51 I meant #maemo not #meego Jun 30 14:22:57 vi__: And given the CSSU is hosted on maemo.org, and enjoys good relations with Nokia, and Nokia pay for maemo.org - why do you think? Jun 30 14:23:04 * javispedro presents a stupid webapp that might be useful: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=24234#post24234 Jun 30 14:23:05 SpeedEvil: Good analogy :) Jun 30 14:23:41 javispedro: Genius Jun 30 14:24:07 javispedro, you've just saved me! Jun 30 14:24:17 javispedro, are you planning to do an OpenTTD port for Harmattan? Jun 30 14:24:25 javispedro: Does it make the icons fit into the borders conformant with the guideliens? Jun 30 14:24:32 Venemo: you bet =) Jun 30 14:24:49 javispedro, I think you are! Jun 30 14:24:53 Jaffa: if I understood the guidelines well, yes. Size of background layer is 80x80, size of icon is 56x56 Jun 30 14:25:10 but that's why I am posting, let's see if someone criticises :) Jun 30 14:25:19 javispedro: Cool Jun 30 14:25:54 javispedro: whahou ! cool ... i m far to be an icon designer ... will try it now ... : Jun 30 14:25:55 :) Jun 30 14:26:05 javispedro, the edges of the background layer seem to be poorly antialiased, but that won't be visible on the 4" screen anyway. Jun 30 14:26:06 javispedro: Afaik they need to be bigger? Jun 30 14:26:28 I just wish Nokia would come out and say that they never actually planned to open anything as part of the "license change requests" BS :P Jun 30 14:26:34 Venemo: yes, either way I believe it is suggested to use svg files for launcher icons Jun 30 14:26:37 instead of pngs Jun 30 14:26:55 well, I will use pngs anyway. I don't have enough inkscape skills for svg Jun 30 14:26:56 the rendering is done using QtSvg to check if it looks well (svg is too complex and qtsvg sometimes does a disaster) Jun 30 14:26:58 javispedro: Got an error when re-submitting. Took http://gitorious.org/attitude/attitude/blobs/master/attitude.svg and submitted it with defaults. Then submitted with nothing (got an error). Then submitted with the same file again, but set to mean and greys at 5bpp. Got a load of "Argument #2 should be an array in ..../index.php line 123, 149, 150, 123, 157, 123, 163 and 123" Jun 30 14:27:15 jonwil, they did open things from that. There's a list on the wiki somewhere Jun 30 14:28:00 X-Fade: would you mind to explain why you gone mad at me, please Jun 30 14:28:23 X-Fade: I'm not feeling good about it Jun 30 14:28:35 javispedro: Seems to be the "greys at 5bpp per channel" which causes me problems Jun 30 14:29:07 Jaffa: yes, I understand you dislike the black dominant color =) Jun 30 14:29:26 javispedro: Other suggestion, allow picking (or just specifying the hex code) of a dominant colour Jun 30 14:29:37 javispedro: ...and still get the fade and the other suggestions :) Jun 30 14:29:38 On the topic of webapps that may be useful: Jun 30 14:30:01 http://www.tiddlywiki.com/ Jun 30 14:30:08 A javascript in-browser wiki. Jun 30 14:30:14 can anyone suggest an app that will let me 'browse' web pages as such? Jun 30 14:30:20 Save-as - and you're done. Jun 30 14:30:28 vi__: I assume you don't mean a browser? Jun 30 14:31:00 seems I made it on X-Fade's ignore list - meh Jun 30 14:31:02 javispedro: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/hicg/files/4e0c87a7557be_icon.svg Jun 30 14:31:04 You need to set file permissions on a persistant basis for that webpage though. Jun 30 14:31:08 o/ Jun 30 14:31:14 (ideally) Jun 30 14:31:19 pretty good ! Jun 30 14:31:39 A 'theme' for that - optimising touch would be awesome. Jun 30 14:31:39 khertan: yes, but I dislike black Jun 30 14:31:58 khertan: when I fix grey5 try it, it should get you a yellow one Jun 30 14:32:58 javispedro, khertan how do you do svg files Jun 30 14:33:12 MohammadAG: inkscape Jun 30 14:33:17 SpeedEvil: that is very cool Jun 30 14:33:32 SpeedEvil: if only I could serve it from my n900 Jun 30 14:33:36 !!! Jun 30 14:34:22 SpeedEvil: and it syncs!! Jun 30 14:35:07 vi__: yes - there are sync modules for it. Lots of modules. Also - #tiddlywiki Jun 30 14:35:31 Seem to be some devs there - or were. Jun 30 14:35:44 SpeedEvil: #tiddly on freenode? Jun 30 14:35:47 javispedro: yep say me when it s fixed ... Jun 30 14:36:10 the icon is a bit too dark i think Jun 30 14:36:21 #tiddlywiki Jun 30 14:36:42 MohammadAG: i don't create svg, i extract them from CC Icon Archive :) Jun 30 14:38:55 khertan: it gets slightly more bluish Jun 30 14:39:13 looks a bit better imho Jun 30 14:39:43 khertan: also: you cannot link svgs to forum, use pngs for that Jun 30 14:40:39 Anyone heard anything back yet after sending AID? Jun 30 14:40:42 javispedro: Modern browsers can show them :) Jun 30 14:40:53 javispedro: Ah, ignoring greys works better and gets me blue. Jun 30 14:40:56 Jaffa: your new attitude bluish icon: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/hicg/files/4e0c8a1419871_icon.svg Jun 30 14:40:57 ;) Jun 30 14:41:06 javispedro: You could autorotate to 30deg as per the guidelines as well ;-) Jun 30 14:41:08 javispedro, Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 94371840 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 71 bytes) in /home/javispedro/srv/depot/nit/hicg/index.php on line 76 Jun 30 14:41:14 javispedro, too big of a file? Jun 30 14:41:21 javispedro: It's great - thank you Jun 30 14:41:37 Termana: yes, or you are sending too many colors Jun 30 14:42:23 ;P Jun 30 14:43:58 javispedro, the file is only 3.5KB - must be the colours Jun 30 14:44:03 Termana: have linkie? Jun 30 14:44:31 javispedro, here is the original jpeg - http://www.clipartguide.com/_thumbs/0511-1001-1318-4338.jpg Jun 30 14:44:50 ah, I need to check on rasters-embedded-on-svg Jun 30 14:45:44 * javispedro has to get back to work =) Jun 30 14:46:25 http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/proto_icon_purple.png or http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/proto_icon.png Jun 30 14:46:30 (Logo will change) Jun 30 14:46:40 GeneralAntilles: hehe, aperture science one =) Jun 30 14:46:46 Sort of Jun 30 14:46:50 Aperture Science has got more blades Jun 30 14:46:56 So not a DIRECT ripoff. *g* Jun 30 14:47:15 you could call it Maeperture =) Jun 30 14:47:31 j/k Jun 30 14:47:34 GeneralAntilles: What's this? A will it blend app? Jun 30 14:47:52 GeneralAntilles: Orange. And don't change it! Jun 30 14:48:17 SpeedEvil: lol Jun 30 14:48:19 actually purple also looks ok, and will probably leave more of an impact Jun 30 14:48:53 http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/hicg/files/4e0c8ab50a49a_icon.png Jun 30 14:48:57 ^ KhtEditor Jun 30 14:49:13 Jaffa, was thinking about circular aperture blades. Jun 30 14:49:15 khertan: Looks nice - and should work well on OLED Jun 30 14:49:22 javispedro: Thanks. Anyway, new icon now in gitorious :) Jun 30 14:49:27 GeneralAntilles: Circular? Jun 30 14:49:32 Er Jun 30 14:49:33 Rounded Jun 30 14:49:36 javispedro: yep Thx ! Jun 30 14:49:46 * noobmonk3y prods MohammadAG Jun 30 14:49:51 GeneralAntilles: Ah, OK. Concept is cool, then - change the realisation but keep the concept Jun 30 14:50:21 khertan: Jaffa: yw! Jun 30 14:50:23 * noobmonk3y throws a bucket of soggy trouts at frals Jun 30 14:50:53 javispedro, you forgot the drop shadow. :P Jun 30 14:51:28 * MohammadAG prods noobmonk3y Jun 30 14:51:41 GeneralAntilles: Yes, true. They all seem to have that. Jun 30 14:51:45 * noobmonk3y giggles Jun 30 14:52:54 haha Jun 30 14:53:05 colleague at work just challenged us to try to DDoS their new server Jun 30 14:53:17 simple ping flood from 3 other servers locked up their machine Jun 30 14:56:09 Has anyone had any thing back after sending Quim the Account ID? Jun 30 14:56:54 People.. really... he is one guy. Give it some time. You won't get the device before the weekend anyway :) Jun 30 14:57:07 Ya-Ya :P Jun 30 14:57:17 I just thought there'd be some automation :P Jun 30 14:57:33 Not for an ad hoc, 250 piece giveaway. Jun 30 14:58:04 fair point Jun 30 14:58:16 so anyone seens transformers 3? i hear rumours about a n950 in it Jun 30 14:58:22 might just have to go watch it ;( Jun 30 14:58:26 I heard those rumours too Jun 30 14:58:30 Wanna see it Jun 30 14:59:07 * Jaffa doesn't want to go and see it on the off-chance. I'd rather have one in my hands ;-) Jun 30 14:59:19 http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/proto_icon_lightmeter_branded.png and http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/proto_icon_lightmeter.png Jun 30 14:59:30 frals: nope :( bahhhh... no time for tv :( Jun 30 14:59:43 oi noobmonk3y! long time! ;) Jun 30 14:59:45 so... Jun 30 14:59:56 GeneralAntilles: Change the circular top of the second to *be* the "brand logo" Jun 30 14:59:56 you know it's just marketing for a phone you'll have soon Jun 30 15:00:00 hehe i've been around just not ircing :p Jun 30 15:00:01 yet you still want to go see the movie? Jun 30 15:00:05 keep forgetting to reinstall it :) Jun 30 15:00:15 Jaffa, the lightmeter head? Jun 30 15:00:18 crashanddie: Maybe alterego *likes* the Transformers movies Jun 30 15:00:20 GeneralAntilles: yeah Jun 30 15:00:44 GeneralAntilles: I didn't want to use a technical term as I'd almost certainly get it wrong - been *far* too long since I did proper photography (at school) Jun 30 15:00:51 Hehe Jun 30 15:01:11 Has anyone else noticed that Sergey Ivanov is on the #n950 accepted list twice... lucky him ;) Jun 30 15:01:23 noobmonk3y: Yes, it has been noticed Jun 30 15:01:26 :) Jun 30 15:01:59 or maybe its just a common name? ;) Jun 30 15:03:06 is anyone using meego on the desktop? Jun 30 15:03:31 Hey. I've patched a package, and am trying to build the deb for it. I did everything on my device, but dpkg-buildpackage fails due to busybox's gzip not supporting the '-n' argument. So I switched over to try and build it using madde, and have hacked in the extra lib from the device, but again, cannot build the deb due to the package using autotools (which MADDE apparently doesn't support), so the configure stuff falls apart. :( Jun 30 15:03:31 how often does maep update map tiles, I wonder Jun 30 15:04:22 mgedmin: Cache invalidation. Second hardest problem in computer science (after naming things) Jun 30 15:04:29 yep Jun 30 15:04:36 Jaffa, interesting. Needs more stylization, though, I think. http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/lightmeter_head.png Jun 30 15:04:51 I wish mappero used the same tile cache as maep Jun 30 15:06:05 mr_jrt: you can't package on device due to busy box limitation ... if it s a pure python package you can use sdist_maemo Jun 30 15:07:20 frals, C7 methinks Jun 30 15:09:09 GeneralAntilles: Oh, I meant use the Aperture Science bit *as* the light meter head, but keep the body. However, the body's aspect ratio won't make a good icon anyway Jun 30 15:09:13 (I don't think) Jun 30 15:09:46 MohammadAG: i heard x7 and n950 Jun 30 15:09:50 khertan: C++ shared lib. Jun 30 15:10:19 Jaffa, doesn't he have to ask GLaDOS Jun 30 15:10:47 MohammadAG: Only if he wants cake Jun 30 15:11:16 Ah, I see. Jun 30 15:12:43 right back laters again - off to a meeting Jun 30 15:12:50 Oooh! /me notices http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24212&postcount=184 and realises he doesn't have email. Jun 30 15:12:51 Woo! Jun 30 15:13:26 Well - not thrown out with the obvious crap anyway. Jun 30 15:16:49 Jaffa, I'll have to see if I can play with the ratios a bit to fit more in. . . . http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/lightmeter_mod.png Jun 30 15:19:14 GeneralAntilles: Yeah Jun 30 15:24:09 GeneralAntilles: An analog meter might work better in the icon Jun 30 15:24:57 SpeedEvil, yeah, rm_you proposed a light bulb with a dial in front. Jun 30 15:24:59 thass what I said :D Jun 30 15:25:12 GeneralAntilles: no, that was me :P Jun 30 15:25:25 Ah, whomever, then. Jun 30 15:25:35 (bitch) :P Jun 30 15:26:16 The above may be a little fiddly on-screen at the final size Jun 30 15:26:53 im having a problem with my n900 where nonexistant wifi networks show up in the stock wifi connection program Jun 30 15:27:12 Sure they're not neighbouring? Jun 30 15:27:26 i connected once and now they are showing up every time i wanna connect to something Jun 30 15:27:42 yes, im sure that they are not there Jun 30 15:28:05 Odd. Jun 30 15:28:11 also, theres a dot over the signal strength indicator Jun 30 15:28:16 Does areboot cure this? Jun 30 15:28:29 nope, it dosnt Jun 30 15:29:49 it means they're adhoc Jun 30 15:30:14 btw: aegis conflicts with uBoot Jun 30 15:30:20 aha Jun 30 15:30:24 Which means they are always available after configuring them, to remove them delete them from the network connections in settings. Jun 30 15:30:48 thank you :) Jun 30 15:30:56 that actually makes sense Jun 30 15:32:03 :) Jun 30 15:32:48 aaand problem solved :D Jun 30 15:32:52 stupid adhoc Jun 30 15:33:51 Adhoc is basically turn the reciever on in promisc mode, and blast out raw tcp/ip hoping that that fixes all packet losses? Jun 30 15:34:06 Never actually set itup. Jun 30 15:35:02 something like that Jun 30 15:36:22 but i think a mesh network would be better than adhoc anyway Jun 30 15:38:31 Venemo: pong? Jun 30 15:39:16 hiemanshu, does the SDK work for you on F15? Jun 30 15:39:50 Venemo: which one? Jun 30 15:40:48 Venemo: harmattan sbox one? Jun 30 15:41:44 Ugh Jun 30 15:42:01 The DHL truck pulled up out front when I was walking to the car. Jun 30 15:42:07 Freaked out for a second. Jun 30 15:42:22 hiemanshu, yes Jun 30 15:42:29 GAN900 ? Jun 30 15:42:40 Venemo: yes, use the .py installer, no patches required for this Jun 30 15:42:50 hiemanshu, it doesn't work for me Jun 30 15:42:57 hiemanshu, the Xephyr window stays empty, black Jun 30 15:43:00 Venemo: hmm, what does it say? Jun 30 15:43:04 GAN900: Heh Jun 30 15:43:04 Venemo: ah Jun 30 15:43:05 hiemanshu, no error messages Jun 30 15:43:29 Venemo: you have to start Xephyr, and at the same time do a meego-sb-session start Jun 30 15:43:36 Venemo: let me get you the exact commands Jun 30 15:43:46 hiemanshu, yes, I did that. I used the commands from the docs Jun 30 15:44:06 Bodged it :) Grabbed an armel version of gzip from ubuntu's site, dumped it in /usr/local/bin and it all works fine. Jun 30 15:44:15 Venemo: odd, works fine for me Jun 30 15:45:26 hmm Jun 30 15:46:00 Venemo, Nokia usually ships devices via DHL Jun 30 15:46:12 and since nobody else uses DHL in the US.... Jun 30 15:46:19 Venemo: echo $DISPLAY in the sbox shell Jun 30 15:46:42 GAN900: And they are shipping the N950s via DHL as well. Jun 30 15:47:24 GAN900: I've got a DHL tracking number for mine, but I *think* (from its status), it's sitting in Nokia's Goods Outwards department, and isn't flying over the Nordics on its way to me :-( Jun 30 15:48:21 Jaffa, you only ordered a few hours ago - no mail is that fast! :p Jun 30 15:48:24 * SpeedEvil imagines n950s with the power of flight. Jun 30 15:48:44 Damn - I should have added a quadcopter app. Jun 30 15:48:59 it's all Linus's fault, he should've picked a flying bird as the mascot! Jun 30 15:51:25 Termana: I'm hoping for a flurry of activity overnight Jun 30 15:53:45 hello guys, im experiencing issues while trying to associate with a wireless network (802.1x peap mschapv2 with certificate) Jun 30 15:54:14 it turns out, when i enter all the details, maemo asks me for the cert passwod ? Jun 30 15:54:17 which i dont have Jun 30 15:55:19 any hints ? Jun 30 15:58:44 I should have done better app pages. Meh. Jun 30 16:04:19 khertan: congrats btw :D Jun 30 16:07:23 hiemanshu, I did 'export DISPLAY=:2' Jun 30 16:07:33 before meego-sb-session start Jun 30 16:08:22 Venemo: hmm, works fine here Jun 30 16:08:47 * GAN900 recalls DHL dropping off the September proto with the apartment leasing office. Jun 30 16:11:18 Damn, realised we're well past Helsinki office hours now; so it seems unlikely that anything'll be happening with my device leaving Nokia tonight Jun 30 16:11:30 So, Monday delivery (hopefully) Jun 30 16:12:24 Jaffa: So you got word? Jun 30 16:12:34 * timsamoff missed something. Jun 30 16:13:38 bah, downside with doing what you love for a living is you try to avoid it on your free time... Jun 30 16:14:56 timsamoff: Cos my Nokia Developer account was already, everything was synced up & I was able to order. Jun 30 16:16:22 Jaffa: Ah, cool! Jun 30 16:18:56 o/ timsamoff Jun 30 16:19:29 \o MohammadAG ;) Jun 30 16:20:01 in case i didnt link it here earlier, Nokia is sponsoring Stockholm Fashion Week in August to show the N9 0:} Jun 30 16:20:46 Free n9s to hot models. Jun 30 16:21:01 I wonder if any of them can code. Jun 30 16:22:35 so nokia already settled on n950s to developers? Jun 30 16:23:02 Sortof. Jun 30 16:23:07 There are two programs. Jun 30 16:23:12 Commercial side. Jun 30 16:23:17 yeah but the one from meego.com? Jun 30 16:23:18 And then open-source side Jun 30 16:23:27 open-source side is 250 - commercial side is more Jun 30 16:23:47 123? of the open source ones have been allocated Jun 30 16:23:57 133 i think? Jun 30 16:24:14 Oh - I though this was another channel - my bad. Jun 30 16:24:17 mhmh, no mail received :( Jun 30 16:24:23 So I wasn't bothering with round numbers. Jun 30 16:24:31 Corsac: That's good though - it means you've not been binned Jun 30 16:24:40 So 50:50 chance. Jun 30 16:24:45 (neglecting lots) Jun 30 16:24:47 :) Jun 30 16:24:53 SpeedEvil: do elected people got a mail? Jun 30 16:25:35 Corsac: Those in the first round I think got mail - the 133 Jun 30 16:25:47 And the 250? that were rejected Jun 30 16:25:55 any idea what From is used? Jun 30 16:26:28 Oooh, no - having said that: mine has been "Processed at HELSINKI-FINLAND" :-D Jun 30 16:27:28 frals: Hmm, I might have to go back to Swedbank in August and get some backstage time with some hot Swedish models. Jun 30 16:27:41 Jaffa: :D Jun 30 16:27:48 frals: Having seen the median Swedish woman, I can't imagine what the models must be like ;-) Jun 30 16:27:54 ;) Jun 30 16:28:06 (guess why I'm moving back to .SE ;)) Jun 30 16:28:08 frals: And you get Crown Princess Victoria, we get Prince William. Jun 30 16:28:22 frals: Josefina's on a summer evening - bliss. Jun 30 16:28:36 Jaffa: We have Princess Madeleine ;-) Jun 30 16:29:30 Jaffa: can you tell the From:/Enveloppe-From: in the mail your received (assuming you did receive a selection mail from meego.com for n950) Jun 30 16:30:21 no changes to the list yet? Jun 30 16:30:34 Corsac: I didn't get the meego.com email, brecause everything was already set up with my Nokia Developer account. The logs have the From & Subject that I got from developer.nokia.com Jun 30 16:30:43 ok Jun 30 16:31:11 frals, my oh my - you DO have Princess Madeleine Jun 30 16:31:31 Corsac, comes from Quim Jun 30 16:31:52 timsamoff, hey-ho. Jun 30 16:32:16 Termana, Karaoke app :D Jun 30 16:32:26 Termana: thanks :) Jun 30 16:32:29 MohammadAG, *TROLL FACE* Jun 30 16:32:50 MohammadAG, see, you should have stolen my idea, then you would have got an N950! Jun 30 16:33:14 Not such a bad idea after all now was it MohammadAG? :p Jun 30 16:33:20 I never knew you did development :p Jun 30 16:33:48 Hi GeneralAntilles! Jun 30 16:34:16 yeah, nah man, I sit around on me arse and drink beer like a typical 'stralian Jun 30 16:35:51 fosters? Jun 30 16:36:36 dm8tbr, I see you know some people who drive commonwhores Jun 30 16:37:17 s/commonwhores/commodores/ Jun 30 16:37:18 Termana meant: dm8tbr, I see you know some people who drive commodores Jun 30 16:38:00 sorry, couldn't resist a stereotype Jun 30 16:38:13 :p Jun 30 16:38:45 frals: Wow, Princess Madeleine... wow. Jun 30 16:38:55 frals: And your King looks like Jim Broadbent! Jun 30 16:39:33 ;D Jun 30 16:39:57 It's very disturbing coming through Arlanda and seeing all the "this is my home town" and seeing Jim Broadbent. Jun 30 16:39:58 * GeneralAntilles updates the Qt SDK. Jun 30 16:40:16 haha Jun 30 16:43:25 https://twitter.com/#!/klasstrom/status/86468867412598784 Jun 30 16:45:10 I'm off to bed, good night all Jun 30 16:45:16 Night! Jun 30 16:45:56 RST38h, ping? Jun 30 16:51:57 a bit simplistic question, but what are the recommended brands of Micro SDHC I should use for n900? SanDisks have only class 2 here Jun 30 16:52:56 Still no email from quim about the AID :( Jun 30 16:53:26 lol Jun 30 16:53:40 hungry ... Jun 30 16:53:46 * alterego wonders off. Jun 30 16:53:54 alterego: i read that as "about the AIDS" Jun 30 16:53:55 edheldil: the class thingy sucks as it doesn't say about random access. Jun 30 16:54:44 edheldil: but class 6 seems to be about what performs ok enough for things like e.g. meego installs Jun 30 16:56:44 [17:42] Venemo, Nokia usually ships devices via DHL ---> that is good to hear :) Jun 30 16:57:09 alterego, no email for me either Jun 30 16:57:12 you get a tracking number as well apparently. Jun 30 16:58:31 I just wish it to be here already Jun 30 17:00:01 Heh, soon enough Jun 30 17:00:24 how soon? Jun 30 17:00:58 Soon Jun 30 17:01:01 soonâ„¢ (as with CCP) ? Jun 30 17:02:08 blizzard soon Jun 30 17:02:14 I just think Quim might be drowning in our AIDs Jun 30 17:02:30 CCP soon is too soon! Jun 30 17:02:53 I just want my name on the wiki /me cries Jun 30 17:03:24 so what is the deal, MohammadAG still isnt certain? Jun 30 17:03:33 MohammadAG: "don't worry" Jun 30 17:03:39 maybe your name is alphabetically so behind Jun 30 17:03:42 knawmean? Jun 30 17:03:58 I think it's to do with export rules to his country :P Jun 30 17:04:12 I already got an N900 shipped here :p Jun 30 17:04:24 That wasn't a loan :P Jun 30 17:04:38 it was, it was just never asked for :p Jun 30 17:04:43 yet Jun 30 17:04:52 that's why I kept it in out of the box new condition Jun 30 17:05:00 it even has the sticker on the back Jun 30 17:05:20 "Dear MAG, we're writing to tell you, instead of getting an N950, we want all your N900s back" Jun 30 17:05:35 * alterego chortles Jun 30 17:05:37 i remember first time i went to HEL and met quim Jun 30 17:05:56 MohammadAG: "don't worry" <-- this and that ^ contradict :P Jun 30 17:05:56 he pretty much threw a n900 box at me and never heard about it again Jun 30 17:06:12 MohammadAG: sure, take the first answer ;) Jun 30 17:06:20 * MohammadAG cries Jun 30 17:06:35 MohammadAG: seriously, don't worrk :) Jun 30 17:06:37 frals, does the N9 come with MMS? :P Jun 30 17:06:48 heh, harmattan has MMS Jun 30 17:06:50 * frals tries to update Qt SDK and install Harmattan toolchain Jun 30 17:06:53 MohammadAG: yes Jun 30 17:07:00 ;) Jun 30 17:07:02 Have a good day everyone. ;) Jun 30 17:09:52 frals: did you do it? :) Jun 30 17:10:01 no ;< Jun 30 17:10:09 Heh Jun 30 17:10:19 But you have an N9 so you can do one :P Jun 30 17:10:26 most of the fun stuff was done when i was up to speed on stuff Jun 30 17:10:34 Ah right Jun 30 17:11:25 can see some of the stuff did at meego.gitorious.org thou ;-) (not mms related) Jun 30 17:11:40 :) Jun 30 17:12:09 I'm thinking of disabling meego mls for a bit, keep getting notifications, that aren't from launchpad! Jun 30 17:12:30 alterego: filters = win Jun 30 17:12:51 anything from meego MLs goes straight to subfolders without notification :P Jun 30 17:13:49 Ugh Jun 30 17:13:54 Mailing list overload. Jun 30 17:28:25 frals, I'm guessing your MMS implementation is open? :P Jun 30 17:31:32 gitorious.org/fmms always been :p Jun 30 17:36:53 MMSes are evil, i say Jun 30 17:36:54 evil Jun 30 17:37:00 avoid them! Jun 30 17:37:08 frals is the devil! Jun 30 17:38:02 Venemo: sorry I was away, didja get it to work? Jun 30 17:38:14 frals, Harmattan :P Jun 30 17:38:14 cause it's probably C++ there ;) Jun 30 17:38:20 hiemanshu, no, I gave up Jun 30 17:38:31 hiemanshu, I'll probably just use MADDE anyway once the device gets here Jun 30 17:40:52 Venemo: well, I have it working Jun 30 17:41:21 hiemanshu, good for you :) Jun 30 17:42:07 Venemo: Well, you should try to do a meego-sb-session start after a couple of seconds delay after the Xephyr command, and try removing -extension Composite Jun 30 17:43:16 hiemanshu, hm Jun 30 17:43:22 hiemanshu, I will try Jun 30 17:43:40 Venemo: for me at times it fails to start with -extenstion Composite Jun 30 17:43:44 but works just fine without it Jun 30 17:45:04 hiemanshu, okay, I'm trying Jun 30 17:46:31 * divan got Google+ invite.. But can't apply it. Google+ says "try again later". Jun 30 17:48:17 divan: right, they have exceeded limits or something Jun 30 17:48:25 also, if anyone cares, Steam Sale :D Jun 30 17:54:03 Damn, it's only been a week and I've lost my N900 stylus already! Is there any offical replacement pack or reputable sources to buy from? Jun 30 17:54:30 Atarii, as I recall, Fake sells them alongside his stands Jun 30 17:55:00 is that someone from here or foums? Jun 30 17:56:36 Atarii: i bought one on ebay Jun 30 17:56:38 felt bad, man Jun 30 17:56:39 :( Jun 30 17:56:48 Atarii, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43593 Jun 30 17:57:09 kerio does it fit ok into device? near enough to normal one? Jun 30 17:57:12 thanks Venemo :) Jun 30 17:57:18 i bought a nokia one Jun 30 18:00:52 I just saw the last episode of quantum leep Jun 30 18:00:56 ~leap .. Jun 30 18:01:02 Forgot how sad it was :'( Jun 30 18:01:21 heh Jun 30 18:01:28 just ran QtInfo on N950 Jun 30 18:01:43 and it says... Hardware features: Bluetooth, Camera, FM Radio, LED, Memory card, USB, Vibra, WiFi, SIM, GPS, Haptics Jun 30 18:01:54 :) Jun 30 18:01:55 alterego: I take it you are getting a N950 too? Jun 30 18:02:08 Yeah, at some point, when I hear back from Launchpad :D Jun 30 18:02:24 Or Quim, or however it's going to work. Jun 30 18:02:59 alterego: so not in the first round? Jun 30 18:03:13 Yeah Jun 30 18:03:17 I was on the first list. Jun 30 18:03:36 Got the acceptance email, replied back with my developer nokia account id Jun 30 18:03:40 Just sitting waiting now .. Jun 30 18:04:33 alterego: ah, I dont know your real name but I saw columbus on the list :D Jun 30 18:04:44 :) Jun 30 18:04:47 Tom Swindell :P Jun 30 18:05:01 right Jun 30 18:05:37 alterego: Swindell is a mis-splet spindle with s,w,p and +l Jun 30 18:05:39 * hiemanshu runs Jun 30 18:06:43 * hiemanshu remembers that because some other Swindell I knew told me his name like that Jun 30 18:07:17 Weird Jun 30 18:07:31 I heard my name originates from pig farming in scotland Jun 30 18:07:34 Wine Dale Jun 30 18:07:36 Or something Jun 30 18:07:40 Erm, Swine Dale Jun 30 18:08:25 alterego, interesting :) Jun 30 18:09:35 Meh :) Jun 30 18:09:46 I bet we were cutting edge MeeGo pig farmers Jun 30 18:09:57 well I am lucky not to have a weird name, esp likes the ones around here in India Jun 30 18:10:16 thanks Venemo, I've fired him off an email Jun 30 18:10:25 I have a friend whose full name is around 24 words Jun 30 18:10:42 "round 24 words"? were his parents on drugs? Jun 30 18:11:26 Atarii: well no, a lot of indians in south india have the names of loads of before generations, caste, village and other stuff like that Jun 30 18:12:00 ah, does that mean it's rare to have people with the same name? Jun 30 18:12:09 very Jun 30 18:12:21 'Warnakulasuriya Patabendige Ushantha Joseph Chaminda Vaas' for example is a famous cricketer from Sri Lanka Jun 30 18:13:13 wow Jun 30 18:14:22 I am pretty sure the only name you can pronouce from that is Joseph :P Jun 30 18:15:00 agreed ;p Jun 30 18:20:54 GeneralAntilles: well, no email here yet either Jun 30 18:21:01 so, i guess that's good-ish Jun 30 18:21:27 i wouldn't expected my application to be a slam-dunk anyway since i basically stopped developing around the time i actually got an N900 <_< Jun 30 18:27:35 * mgedmin jumps up and down excitedly Jun 30 18:27:56 got an email! Jun 30 18:28:13 mgedmin: duh! Jun 30 18:28:37 I got a DHL notification ;-P Jun 30 18:29:10 DocScrutinizer: it's called a spam Jun 30 18:29:15 or a virus Jun 30 18:29:23 "please pick up your mail at..." - alas it's just some silly letter Jun 30 18:29:26 if that's the one i'm thinking about Jun 30 18:29:43 jacekowski: nope, it's a paper in my letterbox Jun 30 18:30:05 a card actually Jun 30 18:30:24 oldschool Jun 30 18:30:29 Stupid Nokia better figure out my LaunchPad account. Jun 30 18:30:29 hehehe Jun 30 18:30:30 Bastards. Jun 30 18:30:42 lol GeneralAntilles Jun 30 18:30:56 is that the same account as for the n900 dev program? Jun 30 18:31:07 because i had that account all set up back then, but never actually used the dev program Jun 30 18:31:20 I wonder when my mail arrives "Sorry, we've been informed you hate aegis. This device isn't for you" :-P Jun 30 18:32:20 DocScrutinizer: if hating aegis would revoke device access... well.... :P Jun 30 18:32:29 lol Jun 30 18:32:38 check your backscroll ;-) Jun 30 18:47:13 YES I WAS ACCEPTED :D Jun 30 18:47:51 No? Really? Who would have thought that :) Jun 30 18:48:27 moin moin Jun 30 18:50:43 i want to play angry birds but what is better install preenv and install angry birds or install webos and us this for installing angry birds ? Jun 30 18:51:13 lol literally pressing Install button for Angry Birds and you typed that Jun 30 18:51:21 Just install it from OVI? Jun 30 18:52:06 rm_work, no Jun 30 18:52:31 MohammadAG: YAY! Jun 30 18:52:34 At least, the LaunchPad stuff wasn't involved then. Jun 30 18:52:36 in ovi i only see the levelpacks Jun 30 18:52:41 MohammadAG: NO MORE ANDROID AND DALVIK AND SHIT Jun 30 18:52:46 MohammadAG, Quim comes through again. :P Jun 30 18:52:57 MohammadAG: I still wonder, why not first round :/ Jun 30 18:53:28 hiemanshu, I wouldn't try to divine too much from it. Jun 30 18:53:38 x-fade Jun 30 18:57:36 X-Fade, I actually didn't think I was gonna make it :P Jun 30 18:57:39 hmmm, opencv really takes a lot of time to build :/ Jun 30 19:06:44 Itschue: angrybirds should be installable via hildon app manager I think Jun 30 19:07:42 yup Jun 30 19:07:45 in didnt see it in ham but i didnt have devel activ Jun 30 19:07:56 should be in extras Jun 30 19:08:07 search for bird Jun 30 19:08:07 with other name? Jun 30 19:08:20 i searched for angry Jun 30 19:08:21 you know the search option? Jun 30 19:08:32 yes still type in Jun 30 19:08:37 select "all" Jun 30 19:09:06 ok, I got opencv to build in sbox (after a couple of patches) Jun 30 19:09:10 for harmattan Jun 30 19:09:11 if you can't find it, check your list of installed apps in "uninstall" Jun 30 19:09:17 but i want to have option that shows the available packages in date order Jun 30 19:10:49 and for the future wich is the better way from these two install preenv and than the games or webos and with this the games? Jun 30 19:11:00 ham is fucking slow Jun 30 19:11:17 get Faster Application Manager Jun 30 19:11:53 i had trouble with fap man i dont want to use this anymore Jun 30 19:12:38 DocScrutinizer cant find angry birds by type bird or angry Jun 30 19:13:32 even FAM is slow, better to just use apt-get Jun 30 19:13:59 Trizt true. Itschue use apt-cache search birds Jun 30 19:14:00 congrats MohammadAG :) :) Jun 30 19:14:06 and actually congrats to many peoples in here :) hehe Jun 30 19:14:12 thanks noobmonk3y :D Jun 30 19:14:27 very deserved :) - can't wait to see what you produce for meego! :) Jun 30 19:15:07 MohammadAG; you got yourself a n950? Jun 30 19:15:34 trizt - second round just done :) Jun 30 19:15:44 Trizt: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia Jun 30 19:16:12 Itschue: http://pastebin.com/nyhmVH5i Jun 30 19:16:24 apt-gat cache find it Jun 30 19:16:25 noobmonk3y: how many more left? (devices) Jun 30 19:16:32 angrybirds is in PR1.3 it seems Jun 30 19:17:43 MohammadAG; congrats which you many sleepless nights ;) Jun 30 19:18:23 * Trizt leave the computer to spend some time to wife to be Jun 30 19:18:34 lol! Jun 30 19:19:43 Itschue: if it doesn't show up in HAM, makes sure your maemo nokia download catalogues are not flawed Jun 30 19:19:56 apt-get cache find angry birds apt-cache policy says non installed and on the downloads.maemo.nokia.... are 2 available so why ham didnt show me angry birds? Jun 30 19:20:32 let me check Jun 30 19:20:58 will take some minutes, HAM is slow as you know Jun 30 19:20:59 Itschue: Use ovi store. Jun 30 19:21:03 Itschue: not apt Jun 30 19:21:19 where i can see or fix the flowed cataloges? Jun 30 19:21:26 MohammadAG: I told you you were on the list Jun 30 19:21:33 I said don't worry and be patient :P Jun 30 19:21:36 Itschue: listen to X-Fade Jun 30 19:21:56 i dont want use ovi store Jun 30 19:22:12 then try apt-get install angrybirds Jun 30 19:22:48 Itschue: Then you are out of luck. Jun 30 19:22:52 lol alterego any other visionary names? :) Jun 30 19:23:07 but i need preenv so what is better install preenv and angry birds and other webos games over apt-get or webos games manager? Jun 30 19:23:36 Itschue: actually I wonder if it'd be a good thing to flash a clean PR1.3 on your RMA-returned device Jun 30 19:23:56 Itschue: preenv is a completely different thing Jun 30 19:24:25 angrybirds is a native maemo app Jun 30 19:25:05 all angry bird are native maemo app seasons rio? Jun 30 19:25:19 yup, angrybirds doesn't show up in HAM, probably this hidden stuff from OVI appstore Jun 30 19:25:30 ok Jun 30 19:25:39 actually I wonder if it'd be a good thing to flash a clean PR1.3 on your RMA-returned device why? Jun 30 19:26:09 RST38h, which IRC client you think you'll port? Jun 30 19:26:17 IIRC angrybirds should be there by default - even if I'm wrong on that, it still is a sane thing to get a n Jun 30 19:26:24 known good system Jun 30 19:26:38 after repair men messed with it :-) Jun 30 19:26:56 damn batches, again i havent recieved any mail :/ Jun 30 19:28:20 so my rma returned device isnt really clean like it is when i flash it now with pr1.3 and flash vanilla and fiasco? Jun 30 19:28:54 GeneralAntilles, wtf is Brief account description Jun 30 19:29:05 MohammadAG, in the LaunchPad form? Jun 30 19:30:20 MohammadAG, if so, I just put some generic wish-wash about why I need a LaunchPad account. Jun 30 19:30:21 hmm Jun 30 19:32:13 muuhh Jun 30 19:34:30 Itschue: who knows. once you flash vanilla and combined, you're sure about state of your system, as well as about fixed eMMC or whatever caused the failure to flash VANILLA Jun 30 19:35:03 MohammadAG: heh, congrats Jun 30 19:36:09 GeneralAntilles: I entered "blablabla" there, by accident, to go on to a presumed second page of that form ;-P Jun 30 19:37:04 some 10h later launchpad accound got granted Jun 30 19:39:47 ok i i flash my device but not yet i do that tomorrow and what is better for webos games install preenv and the games over apt-get or install webos and with this the games? Jun 30 19:42:14 DocScrutinizer: been 10 days here, nothing :P Jun 30 19:42:35 hiemanshu: launchpad? Jun 30 19:42:40 DocScrutinizer: yes Jun 30 19:42:46 hey MohammadAG Jun 30 19:42:56 hiemanshu: same for javispedro, just for him it's 6 months now Jun 30 19:43:01 DocScrutinizer: yes Jun 30 19:43:03 MohammadAG, this is your lucky day, have you noticed? http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia Jun 30 19:43:08 DocScrutinizer: also did you get any email? Jun 30 19:43:29 Venemo_N900: you are late to the party, you can take that corner there -----> Jun 30 19:43:36 I get ~3 email / minute - what are you referring to particularly? Jun 30 19:43:40 hiemanshu, wut? Jun 30 19:43:56 DocScrutinizer: heh, about your application :P Jun 30 19:44:01 nah Jun 30 19:44:08 DocScrutinizer: so you are still in the game :D Jun 30 19:44:20 hiemanshu, I was among the first to join the party, only left because of connectivity issues Jun 30 19:44:37 Venemo_N900: ah ok :D Jun 30 19:44:42 they won't notify me about my reclassification from quinClass-1 to quimClass-0 due to bitching about aegis Jun 30 19:44:47 ooh, an NDA Jun 30 19:45:12 MohammadAG: NDA? Jun 30 19:45:21 launchpad Jun 30 19:45:22 Venemo_N900, already got the email :) Jun 30 19:46:02 right Jun 30 19:46:04 MohammadAG :) Jun 30 19:48:01 MohammadAG: fine, so you can bring USB hostmode to N9, will need it desperately regarding the missing uSD slot Jun 30 19:50:07 where do I get my Forum Nokia Id? Jun 30 19:50:30 this Nokia Developer User ID ? Jun 30 19:50:57 forum.nokia is now forum.developer.nokia Jun 30 19:51:08 or sth like that Jun 30 19:51:28 so yes, probably Jun 30 19:53:41 MohammadAG, go to the premium-account site again, and it will be the top left field Jun 30 19:53:50 DocScrutinizer: didnt apply for N950? Jun 30 19:53:55 MohammadAG, AID-0000xxxx Jun 30 19:53:56 I did Jun 30 19:53:56 Your application is being processed, you will be notified by email once the application has been reviewed. I'm assuming I'm done? Jun 30 19:54:15 trumee: konttori suggested I should Jun 30 19:54:24 MohammadAG, yep. don't forget to send a reply to Quim's mail Jun 30 19:54:27 DocScrutinizer: and didnt work out? Jun 30 19:54:30 where's this? Jun 30 19:54:34 can't find it Jun 30 19:54:37 trumee: not yet Jun 30 19:54:49 DocScrutinizer: too bad. Jun 30 19:54:53 MohammadAG, step 2 in Quim's mail contains the url Jun 30 19:54:56 :shrug: Jun 30 19:55:10 You have an existing contact, please disassociate from developer account page before creating a new account. Jun 30 19:55:34 I just made it and agreed to an NDA Jun 30 19:55:35 hmmm Jun 30 19:55:38 MohammadAG: I created my Launchpad account 10 days ago and I am still getting that Jun 30 19:55:49 trumee: look, N9 isn't my dream device, so I'd develop for it for community, not for me. I'm not desperate if I don't get a N9-devkit Jun 30 19:55:50 Venemo_N900: it isnt the user name? Jun 30 19:56:04 hiemanshu, nope Jun 30 19:56:18 Venemo_N900: darn-it I sent him the user name :P Jun 30 19:56:36 hiemanshu, heh Jun 30 19:56:39 can't see any AIDs Jun 30 19:57:13 lol Jun 30 19:57:36 look for SIDA ;-P Jun 30 19:59:39 ok Jun 30 19:59:49 so which is the premium site page? Jun 30 20:00:00 if I go the registration link I get You have an existing contact, please disassociate from developer account page before creating a new account. Jun 30 20:00:41 I sent him the one at the end of my NDA Jun 30 20:01:01 hiemanshu: I had to log out *all* browser tabs and windows, to relogin - if that helps Jun 30 20:02:11 it said Nokia Developer Id Jun 30 20:02:21 also you'll receive some confirmation mail with a confirmation URL to activate the account fully. Doesn't work prior to doing that Jun 30 20:03:14 DocScrutinizer: I made a launchpad account about 10 days ago, I am guessing that would have asked me to make a premium registration? Jun 30 20:03:31 the whole developer.nokia.com felt quite like an online dungeaon to me :-) Jun 30 20:03:53 hiemanshu: no clue Jun 30 20:05:06 Venemo_N900: wanna help me out? :P Jun 30 20:05:25 DocScrutinizer: i will need somebody to test N9 against my * server :) Jun 30 20:05:58 oh shit found it Jun 30 20:06:00 for the record https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml Jun 30 20:06:21 you can get there by developer.nokia.com, profile -> edit -> developer profile Jun 30 20:06:33 trumee: I'd be glad to help, but I guess you have to find somebody else Jun 30 20:06:37 MohammadAG, that is what I was talking about Jun 30 20:07:28 isn't it an exciting text adventure? ;-D Jun 30 20:07:37 actually it is developer.nokia.com -> Settings -> Settings again -> Developer Account =) Jun 30 20:08:00 the Nokia Developer maze. Jun 30 20:08:04 Venemo_N900, that was in settings Jun 30 20:08:10 hiemanshu, see what MohammadAG linked Jun 30 20:08:10 yeah \o/ Jun 30 20:08:13 possibly designed as a barrier-to-entry. Jun 30 20:08:14 yes Jun 30 20:08:15 MohammadAG, yepp Jun 30 20:08:26 javispedro: indeed Jun 30 20:08:30 MohammadAG saves the day again :D Jun 30 20:08:47 :) Jun 30 20:08:49 javispedro, yep, that's where I found it, not at the top left of the page ;)\ Jun 30 20:08:51 that's why they don't need to reject "blablabla" reason for launchpad ;-) Jun 30 20:09:02 * javispedro hits DocScrutinizer Jun 30 20:09:08 lol Jun 30 20:09:16 now to read the NDA Jun 30 20:09:16 MohammadAG, well, I saw it on the top left field Jun 30 20:09:19 I at least I feel more confident now that I know that I'm not alone waiting for my approval. Jun 30 20:09:28 not on the top left of the page obviously Jun 30 20:09:32 otherwise I would have thought they're on to me. Jun 30 20:09:47 MohammadAG: enjoy Jun 30 20:10:00 MohammadAG: I fell asleep halfway thru Jun 30 20:10:02 DocScrutinizer, well, whatever it says, I agreed to it Jun 30 20:10:09 so I better know what I'm up against Jun 30 20:10:28 hehe Jun 30 20:10:33 * javispedro hears the black helicopters Jun 30 20:10:44 one question Jun 30 20:10:56 what if a user who applied doesn't know english well? Jun 30 20:10:57 bah, the black helicopters jokes are no longer funny, not now that Nokia is a third-world corporation after the elopcalypse. Jun 30 20:11:21 legal english isn't that better fwiw Jun 30 20:11:23 MohammadAG: major fail Jun 30 20:12:10 MohammadAG: (legal english) see why I fell asleep? Jun 30 20:12:37 actually first I got headache, then fell asleep Jun 30 20:12:45 NDA should have smileys Jun 30 20:12:47 NDAs* Jun 30 20:12:56 they have Jun 30 20:13:03 MohammadAG: lets edit that PDF and add some :D Jun 30 20:13:44 MohammadAG: every time they say "you" envision a >:D added after it Jun 30 20:13:45 1) We know own your soul :D 2) We own everything you make ;) 3)Naaw dawg, I was kidding xD Jun 30 20:14:00 s/know/now/ Jun 30 20:14:01 hiemanshu meant: 1) We now own your soul :D 2) We own everything you make ;) 3)Naaw dawg, I was kidding xD Jun 30 20:14:52 javispedro, any way you can add the dropshadow? Jun 30 20:15:05 GeneralAntilles: ah yes, that, you were absolutely right. Jun 30 20:15:14 javispedro: that's actually amazingly rare a word in legal text Jun 30 20:15:15 Though I'd make it optional. Jun 30 20:15:23 mikhail's Twitter icon looks better without it there. Jun 30 20:15:34 I've been reading (during work hours >:) ) and seems it is very easy using some svg stuff Jun 30 20:15:40 will code it now Jun 30 20:15:42 so anyone who's read it, do I have to stfu about anything? Jun 30 20:16:15 javispedro: usually the terms are ""the loser"" and ""the company"" Jun 30 20:16:37 rather than "you" and "we" Jun 30 20:17:37 oh Jun 30 20:17:51 I know remember that I had a FN user id, and it's completely different to the AID. Jun 30 20:18:03 AID is the number Jun 30 20:18:16 *now Jun 30 20:18:23 so it's >>1) The company now own the loser's soul :D 2) The company own everything the loser make ;) 3)Naaw dawg, the company was kidding xD Jun 30 20:18:28 MohammadAG, according to Jaffa, you must not publicize any deficiencies of the device Jun 30 20:19:06 GeneralAntilles: yes, but the FN id is also a 7-digit id... and a different one. Jun 30 20:19:09 hp licenses WebOS to samsung .. haha Jun 30 20:19:17 cehteh: WHAT? Jun 30 20:19:50 javispedro: rumors .. but i bet that will turn out true ... Jun 30 20:19:56 There is a "Primary Account ID" (AID-00000xxxxx) and "Nokia Developer User ID" (xxxxxxx) Jun 30 20:19:57 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bericht-HP-will-WebOS-an-Samsung-lizenzieren-1270974.html Jun 30 20:20:00 OMFG Jun 30 20:20:13 pwn :) Jun 30 20:20:24 aber Ich spreche nur ein bischen Deutsch! Jun 30 20:20:44 yeah wait a few days or until its announced on other news channels Jun 30 20:20:55 javispedro, Engadget had an article this morning. Jun 30 20:21:26 javispedro: learn chinese and german, or you'll not keep up ;-) Jun 30 20:21:31 hey samsung could sell Baida (or what was its name?) to nokia :P Jun 30 20:21:34 So who's going to release an unbranded theme for Harmattan first? Jun 30 20:21:46 Nobody wants to demo an N950 to friends with "DEVELOPER EDITION" plastered all over it. Jun 30 20:21:52 (anybody remember the OS2006 betas?) Jun 30 20:22:03 bada Jun 30 20:22:10 is that true? does it have that all over the place, M$ beta style? Jun 30 20:22:13 GeneralAntilles, what was on the os2006 betas Jun 30 20:22:22 which raster called a "hickup" ;-) Jun 30 20:22:32 yeah Jun 30 20:22:32 BETA in big bold letters Jun 30 20:22:39 http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7809/591/1600/screenshot00.png Jun 30 20:23:09 It was worse on those scary candy themes: http://www.kernelconcepts.de/~fuchs/nokia770/screenshots/old/screenshot00.png Jun 30 20:23:24 i secretly wondered if samsung might be the next big one who tries a open platform .. no bets yet but not completely impossible Jun 30 20:23:25 * GeneralAntilles misses the 770. Jun 30 20:23:37 GeneralAntilles: sed -i "s/DEVELOPER EDITION/GAN'S ACME VERSION/" * Jun 30 20:23:58 i never seen webos in action but its told to be nice Jun 30 20:24:07 wait, aegis won't allow that XP Jun 30 20:24:16 DocScrutinizer: bada in hindi = big :P Jun 30 20:24:37 GeneralAntilles, interesting Jun 30 20:25:03 cehteh: raster is working on that samsung open platform since, well years Jun 30 20:25:10 i know Jun 30 20:25:25 samsung is at least not openly hostile to free software Jun 30 20:26:01 and the way some of their products are locked down (and can be broken) leaves speculations that its not completely unintentional Jun 30 20:26:31 hm Jun 30 20:27:22 having a comment in a init script at the exact place and size to overwrite it # comment -> ; telnetd Jun 30 20:27:46 GeneralAntilles, only if you insist Jun 30 20:27:53 nah, I'm going to sleep now.. bye! Jun 30 20:28:54 cehteh: nice Jun 30 20:38:28 isn't Alan Bruce qole? Jun 30 20:39:36 MohammadAG: Yes Jun 30 20:39:50 Moo, gentemen Jun 30 20:39:57 How is suffering tonight? Jun 30 20:40:21 so he got accepted, /me wonders why the last post implies he wasn't Jun 30 20:40:44 moo RST38h Jun 30 20:41:18 MohammadAG: I think he means his application work is considered "on the fringe" in Quim's rating scheme Jun 30 20:41:39 The poster seems to have interpreted it wrong Jun 30 20:42:02 lol and that makes me so far on the fringe that i should be in the tv show the fringe? :P Jun 30 20:43:25 oh noobmonk3y's still here :D Jun 30 20:43:46 yup! Jun 30 20:44:07 sitting here smoking my electric cigarette... wooo yay i can smoke in the flat! Jun 30 20:44:30 I thought those were more harmful than normal cigarettes Jun 30 20:44:50 well, only nicotene, no tar etc... bahhhm anyway saving me a bunch of money Jun 30 20:45:00 and i can smoke at my desk at work :P Jun 30 20:45:09 i feel a bit retro :P Jun 30 20:45:28 anyway, I hope you did the right thing Jun 30 20:45:45 the right thing? Jun 30 20:46:35 overclocked the shit out of it Jun 30 20:46:47 lmfao! Jun 30 20:46:58 supercharged cigarette... genius Jun 30 20:47:04 it does charge via my pc... hmmmmmmm Jun 30 20:47:50 then we need hostmode on the N9 to charge cigarettes Jun 30 20:47:57 grrr the waigint is killing me :( i swear it'll be down to 1 device and 2 people before i get told no ;) hehe Jun 30 20:48:00 balls...it looks like i didnt send him my id, like someone above... Jun 30 20:48:02 aiting* Jun 30 20:48:04 btw, contrags MohammadAG Jun 30 20:48:23 thanks piggz, you can still send it afaik Jun 30 20:49:03 :) Jun 30 20:49:09 MohammadAG: where do i find the id..i thought it was the username... Jun 30 20:49:44 https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml Jun 30 20:49:48 go into your account Jun 30 20:50:01 then click "developer Account" on the right hand menu Jun 30 20:50:05 it will show at the top :) Jun 30 20:50:21 ah yes, i see it Jun 30 20:50:23 thx Jun 30 20:53:20 alterego: i suspect my name also originates from pig farming...who would have thought, 2 pig farmers getting N950s Jun 30 21:02:00 MohammadAG: what's with your journey now? postponed? Jun 30 21:02:41 DocScrutinizer, not traveling till the device arrives Jun 30 21:02:48 ;-) Jun 30 21:03:03 prepare for even more suspense then Jun 30 21:05:50 eek Jun 30 21:05:50 I'm expecting a day or two's delay :p Jun 30 21:05:53 also, I'm wondering what customs will do Jun 30 21:06:06 When I got the DDP N900 they wanted 250 bucks tax Jun 30 21:06:12 on a sidenote: SHR distro got decent downstream audio on cmt finally, upstream next (though an itsy bit more tricky) Jun 30 21:06:46 MohammadAG: ouch Jun 30 21:06:54 MohammadAG: that's robbery Jun 30 21:07:19 DocScrutinizer, 34% off the price Jun 30 21:07:26 technically the N950's price is NULL Jun 30 21:07:35 of* Jun 30 21:07:54 yeah, that'll have potential to get really nasty Jun 30 21:08:27 they may guess an arbitrary real value, as 0 obviously can't be correct Jun 30 21:09:16 customs tend to get funny when price ==NAN Jun 30 21:09:24 MohammadAG and his N950, unstoppable force Jun 30 21:10:35 DocScrutinizer, they noticed something on the DDP N900 and said customs was paid in FI Jun 30 21:10:52 aaah good Jun 30 21:11:34 * GeneralAntilles fiddles with the Qt SDK Jun 30 21:11:36 omg svg shadow goodness Jun 30 21:11:49 4px vertical offset should be ok Jun 30 21:13:14 DocScrutinizer, not sure they're gonna the NULL nicely :p Jun 30 21:19:33 javispedro, Nokia's template Photoshop shadow settings are: 2 px distance (offset), 2% spread and 6 px size. From 12 o'clock. 50% opacity. Jun 30 21:21:46 GeneralAntilles: where to get those btw? Jun 30 21:22:40 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Resources/Library/Design_and_UX/designing-for-nokia-platforms/designing-for-meego-12-harmattan/meego-12-harmattan-iconography-guidelines/use-the-templates-from-the-icon-creation-toolkit.html Jun 30 21:22:59 ta! Jun 30 21:24:12 GAN900: sup Jun 30 21:24:16 high latency today Jun 30 21:24:21 rm_work, congrats. Jun 30 21:25:33 GeneralAntilles: haven't actually seen an email yet, i was just asking :P Jun 30 21:25:50 oh Jun 30 21:25:51 nm Jun 30 21:25:51 No, I'm congratulating you for being high latency. Jun 30 21:25:52 there it is Jun 30 21:25:55 Jun 30 21:25:58 i got accepted :P Jun 30 21:26:03 lol did you know before i did? :P Jun 30 21:26:55 hadn't checked my email until just now Jun 30 21:30:55 GeneralAntilles: do you have something that opens .ait files? I would like to get an .svg from it (I need the path only, cause for the current template I made it manually) Jun 30 21:31:07 indeed the best to kill the suspense: just ignore the whole thing until you run into an email ;-) Jun 30 21:31:18 lol DocScrutinizer, yes Jun 30 21:31:52 i have not been really worrying about it, or bugging quim, etc... keep wondering why everyone else is so frantic, there's nothing you can really do other than annoy him <_< Jun 30 21:32:09 indeed Jun 30 21:32:38 and actually receiving a loaner isn't really a century event Jun 30 21:34:28 yeah Jun 30 21:34:34 sure exciting for a moment, but not like you won the lottery Jun 30 21:35:17 i honestly was expecting to maybe not get in, since i just skipped Maemo5 pretty much as a whole Jun 30 21:35:32 javispedro: http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/harmattan-icon-template.svg Jun 30 21:36:00 I thought konttori prodding me to apply would mean it's a nobrainer, but meh Jun 30 21:36:12 did you not get in? Jun 30 21:36:18 nope Jun 30 21:36:21 :( Jun 30 21:36:34 Don't know how long it will take me to get what i want to do done Jun 30 21:36:46 maybe i will end up sending mine your way or something Jun 30 21:36:54 not sure how they're doing that Jun 30 21:36:55 welcome Jun 30 21:37:16 am kind of surprised tho Jun 30 21:37:24 * DocScrutinizer too Jun 30 21:37:29 Well, fringe stuff is tough. Jun 30 21:37:36 Quim hasn't had any interaction with you, either. Jun 30 21:37:41 and did you have a project page up? Jun 30 21:37:49 thought having hostmode was a priority when there's no other external storage Jun 30 21:37:57 yeah, that's true, though it shouldn't make me more qualified just because i've met him like 4 times Jun 30 21:38:40 on the plus side, now that i'm working, i can afford to go to the events without requiring sponsorship (though no idea how many more events there will BE...) Jun 30 21:39:00 Yes, but will your employer let you go? =) Jun 30 21:39:26 hehe Jun 30 21:43:25 MohammadAG: http://pentest.snosoft.com/2011/06/24/netragards-hacker-interface-device-hid/ :) Jun 30 21:45:50 RST38h: ah yes, that is the tricky part Jun 30 21:46:03 RST38h: that's when i mysteriously come down with the Flu... Jun 30 21:47:07 make sure your boss isn't on same conference then :-) Jun 30 21:49:12 lol Jun 30 22:29:02 <_trine> is there anyone who can tell me why when I try to install the sdk it gives this message :- Jun 30 22:29:03 <_trine> Couldn't retrieve file 'maemo-sdk-rootstrap_5.0_10.2010.19-1_armel.tgz Jun 30 23:21:04 GeneralAntilles: so i was asking earlier Jun 30 23:21:20 is the account they want you to make on developer.nokia the same one as for the N900 DDP? Jun 30 23:38:55 good morning Jun 30 23:49:17 Hope to get that bloody launch pad email tomorrow :) Jun 30 23:49:24 Hopefully in the moaning .. Jun 30 23:49:28 g'night Jul 01 00:04:30 Termana: morning, aussie Jul 01 00:28:44 MohammadAG: rm_you - congrats! Jul 01 00:28:56 * SpeedEvil waits nervously. Jul 01 00:30:10 SpeedEvil, lrn2comma :p Jul 01 00:30:11 SpeedEvil: better get a good cup of tea and feel good in knowing it's not you who need them, it's them who desperately need you Jul 01 00:30:16 SpeedEvil, your still in the last 100? Jul 01 00:30:57 Apparantly. Jul 01 00:31:14 And yes - well... Jul 01 00:31:26 DocScrutinizer, have you actually received a rejection email? (reading through the channel logs, you seem to indicate this) Jul 01 00:31:26 I regret my application in terms of apps, and app history was poor. Jul 01 00:31:45 and even worse for them if they don't realize they need you Jul 01 00:31:59 I added some brief sketches of ideas I've had in the past, and it'd be the impetus for learning to code again. Jul 01 00:32:30 For apps. Jul 01 00:32:47 SpeedEvil: without you neither openmoko nor maemo wiki would be what it's now Jul 01 00:32:50 But that was after the deadline - I hope they're looking at the updated pages. Anyone know about that? Jul 01 00:33:08 and without wiki there wouldn't be a single decent app Jul 01 00:33:51 Night all. Jul 01 00:34:28 asking for "applications, applications, applications" Balmer style completely neglects the prerequisites Jul 01 00:35:19 I'm not going to be a puppet on Nokia's strings Jul 01 00:35:43 I'm willing to *help* if they make it happen Jul 01 00:35:59 if not... Not my headache Jul 01 00:38:19 Termana: no, x-fade probably told quim I'm the one person that hates aegis the most and so I don't qualify for any DDP, but for sure they don't bother to inform me about that fact Jul 01 00:43:57 i managed to sneak in on today's list of recipients to my surprise... Jul 01 00:45:54 ieatlint, congrats :) Jul 01 00:46:10 i would've hoped all the old openmoko guys would've made it Jul 01 00:46:40 don't call them old! /sarcasm :p Jul 01 00:46:48 they'd strike me as the more desirable candidates... used to dealing with difficult dev environments and still turning out unique and impressive things Jul 01 00:47:16 ieatlint: (old OM guys) made what? Jul 01 00:47:45 haha Jul 01 00:47:55 a phone that kinda worked Jul 01 00:48:42 i think quim recognized my name, which helped, heh Jul 01 00:48:43 well, OM the hw manuf is dead - for phones. Jul 01 00:49:02 OM the community lives on and is more vivid than ever Jul 01 00:49:24 yeah, but the community based around it had a lot of desirable aspects Jul 01 00:49:39 i still run into enough openmoko peoples Jul 01 00:50:20 ieatlint: jus today mrmoku implemented modem call audio according to my design and considered "downstream fine and ok. Now tackling upstream" Jul 01 00:50:53 for N900 Jul 01 00:51:31 hah Jul 01 00:52:14 and nota bene we are not using PA closed source crap ripped ou from meego or where ever Jul 01 00:52:31 this is an ALSA based implementation Jul 01 00:53:00 alsa suxs Jul 01 00:53:11 meh, audio sucks Jul 01 00:53:16 it can be made as complex and heavy as PA Jul 01 00:53:17 DocScrutinizer, for the N900? So no speaker protection? Jul 01 00:53:17 pulseaudio sucks too Jul 01 00:53:24 it's a competition as to which sucks more Jul 01 00:53:25 ieatlint++ Jul 01 00:53:41 Termana: xprot is user's common sense for now Jul 01 00:53:53 I wonder how's xprot in n{950,9} Jul 01 00:54:04 not needed? Jul 01 00:54:09 was interested the other day in the audio chipset but google returned nothing interesting Jul 01 00:54:11 DocScrutinizer: no idea Jul 01 00:54:19 pulseaudio will have a special place of hatred for me after having to deal with its api Jul 01 00:54:32 ieatlint: I suggest dealing with the ALSA api Jul 01 00:54:41 worse? Jul 01 00:54:45 ieatlint: after careful consideration, the ALSA api is many,many,many times worse than PA's Jul 01 00:54:46 javispedro, Stskeeps indicated to me that he thinks its the same situation as the N900, but that wasn't definitive. Jul 01 00:55:11 dear god... Jul 01 00:55:27 Termana: fascinating Jul 01 00:55:34 I was able to switch to using qtmobility for my audio needs Jul 01 00:55:44 and i'm oh so happy for it Jul 01 00:55:47 bah, ALSA has a steeper learning curve Jul 01 00:55:50 use qtmultimedia Jul 01 00:55:56 seems to be better Jul 01 00:55:59 "seems". Jul 01 00:56:08 once you want *goof quality* ALSA is way more transparent Jul 01 00:56:18 good* even Jul 01 00:56:19 yeah, qtmultimedia now, used to be part of qt Jul 01 00:57:21 and one thing to keep in mind: a poor crappy API doesn't get better by adding 7 layers of abstraction on it Jul 01 00:57:29 DocScrutinizer: you're describing alsa Jul 01 00:57:38 indeed, and PA Jul 01 00:58:04 yeah, but in qt's case, it abstracts it so i don't have to deal with it, and makes the code portable Jul 01 00:58:05 which still is using ALSA as soundcards Jul 01 00:58:12 gimme OSS! Jul 01 00:59:09 gimme a bottle of premium wodka! and cyel8er Jul 01 00:59:24 I need to find some way to bring audio in, convert it to floating point numbers, do some stuff to it and the send it back out again Jul 01 00:59:31 then* Jul 01 00:59:41 couldn't care less about harmattan and Nokia madness Jul 01 01:00:15 floating point? Jul 01 01:00:28 why floating point? Jul 01 01:00:37 *COUGH* Jul 01 01:00:45 Termana: it's absolutely easy with pulse! Jul 01 01:00:49 S16_LE Jul 01 01:00:51 ieatlint, digital signal processing Jul 01 01:01:18 meh, have fun kids! Jul 01 01:01:34 yeah, i've done that, but as doc says, s16le Jul 01 01:01:41 DSP, muhahaha Jul 01 01:02:42 Termana: Proper speaker protection is configuring the output 'soundcard' right - it has hardware speaker protection filtering. Jul 01 01:02:59 Termana: That was already done as a proof of concept and found to work. Jul 01 01:03:07 SpeedEvil: indeed Jul 01 01:03:21 Which involves no CPU power at all to do the prot Jul 01 01:04:21 just Nokia with their APE centric concept haven't found the time to implement it properly, as a last-minute-fix prior to N900 rollout Jul 01 01:06:24 That, and 'it works' - when mp3 might use 10-20% less CPU if properly setup. Jul 01 01:07:01 implemented for harmattan - fremantle is dead Jul 01 01:07:46 sustainable product maintenance? what's that? Jul 01 01:10:30 I just feel with the Nokia EE, who did an incredible awesome job mostly, but 30% are ignored by sw department Jul 01 01:11:28 and the figure getting worse - buzzword QtMobility et al Jul 01 01:13:01 you know why you can't do proper rainbow effects on notifier LED? Just because mce devels were lazy Jul 01 01:15:27 you know why you can't do even more shiny proper rainbow effects on notifier LED? Just because somebody beefed up the LED driver of N810 without regarding *any* od the new capabilities of LP5523 chip used in N900 Jul 01 01:16:14 check out who wrote mce, check out who wrote LP5523 driver Jul 01 01:20:59 i thought that was because they use one channel for the keyboard leds Jul 01 01:29:33 SpeedEvil: :P Jul 01 01:30:00 ? Oh Jul 01 01:32:53 cehteh: indeed. And why? Jul 01 01:33:24 there's no sound rationale to do it this way Jul 01 01:33:42 heh no idea .. guess they needed something to drive the keyboard leds ... Jul 01 01:33:50 dunno the specs Jul 01 01:34:01 cehteh: also LP5523 has twice the program storage made available by the driver Jul 01 01:34:40 well the program storage was never a problem for me .. but 3 channels for really multicolor blink patterns would be awesome Jul 01 01:34:50 cehteh: nope, you perfectly can drive 6 led via sw and keep the three engines for the indicator LED Jul 01 01:35:09 ok i didnt know that Jul 01 01:35:57 it's just *simpler* to do it via na engine, to have that silly 250ms ramp up, ramp down of kbd backlight Jul 01 01:36:33 ha .. now where you say it .. yes indeed :P .. didnt noticed it before Jul 01 01:36:35 even if you think you want to do it via an engine, you could allocate this engine and free it 250ms later Jul 01 01:37:31 slothfulness of mce coders Jul 01 01:37:32 Does anyone happen to know is the "Account ID" for a Nokia Developer account is the same as a "Nokia Developer ID" for purposes of replying to a community N950 developer device program email? Jul 01 01:37:36 well .. and i want customizeable current for the leds ... and feedback from the light sensor Jul 01 01:37:50 s/is/if/ Jul 01 01:37:50 Ken-Young meant: Does anyone happen to know if the "Account ID" for a Nokia Developer account is the same as a "Nokia Developer ID" for purposes of replying to a community N950 developer device program email? Jul 01 01:38:28 from a software standpoint it would be nice to calculate total energy per time on a blink pattern and maximize the brightness Jul 01 01:39:33 doing it via engine makes it smooth always Jul 01 01:39:36 :D Jul 01 01:40:00 ShadowJK: and what for do you need the engine when the ramp has finished? Jul 01 01:40:06 20 ms bright white flashes with 15mA with 500ms pauses would be a nice notifier Jul 01 01:41:30 cehteh: you noticed that usually indicator is 'black' when kbd backlight is in use? Jul 01 01:41:43 ShadowJK: ^^^ Jul 01 01:41:49 sorry cehteh Jul 01 01:41:51 :) Jul 01 01:42:07 well i dont notice either .. what do you mean? Jul 01 01:42:37 When/if I get free time I want to try implement charging led for meego (my own charge.sh of course) Jul 01 01:42:37 I mean kbd backlight and indicator engine use are mutually exclusive anyway Jul 01 01:42:43 and maybe ts vibration, if there's a way that doesn't involve X Jul 01 01:42:45 indicator goes off for many common patterns when screen is active Jul 01 01:42:57 nope Jul 01 01:43:05 works here .. Jul 01 01:43:23 i changed the charging pattern to be always active Jul 01 01:43:37 thats just one of the bits you give to mce Jul 01 01:44:11 i once configured it to keep all patterns active but i got lazy after the last reflash Jul 01 01:44:28 cehteh: well that's unusual, and yet you could snatch away the engine from charging pattern to do the ramp-up/down of kbd. I mean 250ms, c'mon Jul 01 01:44:45 yeah sure Jul 01 01:45:05 actually who needs the ramp for the keyboard? Jul 01 01:45:15 on/off with brightness control would be ok Jul 01 01:45:25 well *that* actually uses brightness control .. Jul 01 01:45:37 but not the indicator where it would be much more useful Jul 01 01:45:50 but honestly the CPU is perfectly capably to do a smooth ramp for kbd backlight without using an engine Jul 01 01:45:59 that too Jul 01 01:46:44 it's a braindamaged lazy design Jul 01 01:47:09 well it all has an end .. Jul 01 01:47:27 nokia will be history soon .. at least for opensource / free software Jul 01 01:47:35 the cpu is capable, but making sure it does it is a PITA ;P Jul 01 01:47:38 yeah Jul 01 01:47:57 ShadowJK: meh, nonsense Jul 01 01:48:18 Ken-Young: And congrats! Orrery on a platform with magnetometer should be fun! Jul 01 01:48:26 people laughed at "stuck" leds before, so I guess some manager wanted it to be smooth Jul 01 01:48:33 SpeedEvil: +++ Jul 01 01:49:00 and coders didn't want to spend the 10x effort on more realtime code ;p Jul 01 01:49:03 one led per key would be nice :P Jul 01 01:49:11 ShadowJK: doesn't apply to kbd backlight, not at all really Jul 01 01:49:12 one RGB led per key! Jul 01 01:49:28 I'd really like one LED on the backlight to be illuminable. Jul 01 01:50:24 ShadowJK: (10 x the effort) lazy, toldya Jul 01 01:50:38 SpeedEvil, Thanks! The main complaint users have had about orrery is that they could not hold the N900 up to the sky and have it orient itself. Many users asked me to try to do that with accelerometers, but that just didn't seem like it would give any precision. Magnetometers should be fun. Jul 01 01:51:18 Ken-Young: will be awesome Jul 01 01:51:23 accelerometers just dont work that way Jul 01 01:51:24 Accellerometers can give you only the angle of the gravity axis, yes. both give you pointing to around a degree or three. Jul 01 01:51:25 :) Jul 01 01:52:17 I also will be adding a location based feature for eclipses. Jul 01 01:52:21 you can actually make N9 show the segment of sky it covers Jul 01 01:53:03 augmented reality Jul 01 01:53:12 DocScrutinizer, But you need to know the distance of the N9 from your eye to do that properly, don't you? Jul 01 01:53:26 indeed :-) Jul 01 01:53:29 Front camera Jul 01 01:53:34 hehehe Jul 01 01:53:42 Though that's not going to work well for nighttime of course. Jul 01 01:53:52 SpeedEvil, !!!! Good idea! Jul 01 01:53:54 I hope that the display can go dim enough. Jul 01 01:53:56 there's always a solution - just define the problem propperly Jul 01 01:54:16 Because if it can - OLED at night would be a truly awesome display for stargazing. Jul 01 01:54:26 Yet another 'platform' issue. Jul 01 01:54:29 well if you just guess 1/2 average arm length you are prolly good enugh Jul 01 01:54:30 Special eyeglasses with LEDs at the frame tips, for the front camera to pick up. Jul 01 01:55:03 SpeedEvil: (nighttime) ask lcuk about 2 or 3 light on head of user Jul 01 01:55:15 just make the screen very bright to illuminate the head, also blinds the user, so they wont notice in case the displayed sky is a bit off. Jul 01 01:55:24 i'd like a device with a full set of location sensors .. accelerometer, magnetometer, gyroscope ... and gps Jul 01 01:55:39 Gyro doesn't buy you that much in addition to accel and mag. Jul 01 01:55:45 if you have them all, then they can cross callibrate and improve accuracy Jul 01 01:55:49 For conditions where the device is mostly stationary. Jul 01 01:55:55 cehteh, There's an add=on board for Openmoko Freerunners that give you that. Jul 01 01:56:07 In cases of motion, it can de-drift the attitude a lot. Jul 01 01:56:09 Aire pressure etc. too. Jul 01 01:56:09 two leds make for distance, 3 for decent orientation relative to the 3 leds Jul 01 01:56:17 yes Jul 01 01:56:43 9 axis will be next year. Jul 01 01:56:58 6 axis chips have gotten fairly cheap. - $3 or so in _quantity_ Jul 01 01:57:12 9axis? wtf :P Jul 01 01:57:14 But you have to pick accel + gyro or accel + mag Jul 01 01:57:26 cehteh, It's for string theorists. Jul 01 01:57:27 Gyro, mag and accel in the one chip - 9 axes. Jul 01 01:57:36 ah ok Jul 01 01:57:53 i should just start telling people the app i submitted to apply for an n950 is a grindr.com client Jul 01 01:58:00 i was thinking you talk about a 9 axes gyroscope Jul 01 01:58:25 ieatlint: Go for it! :) Jul 01 01:59:00 http://wiki.meego.com/User_talk:Speedevil/Projects - my 'project' page. :) Jul 01 01:59:07 Note the sucky apps bit at the front. Jul 01 01:59:42 * DocScrutinizer surrenders to the general feeling of "MEH!" Jul 01 01:59:51 o/ Jul 01 02:00:52 OTOH - most of the people on the list at the bottom have gotten devices - :) Jul 01 02:01:25 SpeedEvil, Thanks for listing me on your page. Jul 01 02:01:38 Orrery was clearly a stunning app. Jul 01 02:01:46 Or should be. Jul 01 02:01:47 I still don't get how an acceleration measuring device returns device orientation Jul 01 02:01:55 MohammadAG: Because of gravity. Jul 01 02:01:59 SpeedEvil, Well, most people prefer Stellarium. Jul 01 02:02:16 the device is exposed to the same gravitational field Jul 01 02:02:24 I really want xephem! :) Jul 01 02:02:36 (though really, it'd be silly for a touchscreen one window device) Jul 01 02:03:17 MohammadAG: yes, in fee fall it is Jul 01 02:03:25 MohammadAG: but you're holding it Jul 01 02:03:31 SpeedEvil, I'm *really* tempted to port NRAO AIPS, and ancient FORTRAN radio astronomy data reduction package. Jul 01 02:03:36 MohammadAG: so gravity points 'down' Jul 01 02:03:40 MohammadAG: so there's a force on the case from your hand Jul 01 02:03:45 MohammadAG: If you don't move the device too much. Jul 01 02:03:59 MohammadAG: Consider it like a little weighted string hanging from the accellerometer. Jul 01 02:04:18 MohammadAG: same force with inverse signs is detected by accelerometer Jul 01 02:04:19 It's pretty much exactly like that - apart from the pendulumn-like swinging. Jul 01 02:04:28 ah Jul 01 02:04:47 so technically, down is different to it in different positions Jul 01 02:04:48 Ken-Young: There is so much of what used to be 'big iron' data reduction that becomes relevant to the cellphone again. Jul 01 02:04:49 got it Jul 01 02:05:08 Especially with multiple devices in communication. Jul 01 02:05:51 MohammadAG: the accelerometer tells you exactly what forces your hand applies to the device by holding it Jul 01 02:06:01 MohammadAG: modulo the pinch Jul 01 02:07:42 so what kind of interesting things could one do with that? Jul 01 02:08:07 measure the constant g Jul 01 02:08:11 Gyjf: basically with just accel, all you can sense is where that virtual string/weight is. Jul 01 02:08:17 find out if screen heads up or to you? Jul 01 02:08:31 Gyjf: And get a ~30km (IIRC with the n900 accel) altitude resolution. Jul 01 02:08:51 actually can g be measured? Jul 01 02:09:03 Accurately? if the device is in free fall Jul 01 02:09:36 when free fall, all 3 axis are 0 Jul 01 02:09:47 lis302 even detects that Jul 01 02:10:07 it's one of the primary usecases Jul 01 02:10:17 can I legally jump off a plane and try that? Jul 01 02:10:28 parachute? Jul 01 02:10:29 yes :-ÃœP Jul 01 02:10:33 :-P Jul 01 02:10:50 Gyjf, no, I always land on my feet Jul 01 02:11:03 And I have some boots from Portal Jul 01 02:11:19 sweeet, where can i get a pair? :P Jul 01 02:11:34 contact valve Jul 01 02:11:37 WU_FF == wake up on free fall Jul 01 02:11:48 you can get a free crusher with them too Jul 01 02:11:56 DocScrutinizer, interesting Jul 01 02:11:58 It can also interrupt on 'taps' Jul 01 02:12:01 And doubletaps Jul 01 02:12:10 For a 'zero' power wake Jul 01 02:12:17 does the device go into free fall if dropped say, 10m? Jul 01 02:12:33 It goes into freefall from the millimeter you release it Jul 01 02:12:35 would be nice to have a you fucking dropped me app Jul 01 02:12:52 It then gradually picks up aerodynamic drag. Jul 01 02:12:52 yeah but when does it reach terminal velocity? Jul 01 02:13:02 MohammadAG: it goes into free fall on 10 cm Jul 01 02:13:07 I'd imagine it's slowed a lot after a couple of seconds. Jul 01 02:13:29 I can't imagine it's terminal velocity is much more than that. Jul 01 02:14:30 Gyjf: if it reaches "terminal velocity" then the air is the "holding hand" and accelerometer will thing device sits o a table Jul 01 02:14:38 is there a way to get direct speed? Jul 01 02:14:43 NRAO AIPS - yikes Jul 01 02:14:43 No. Jul 01 02:14:49 without differentiation... k Jul 01 02:14:51 GPS Jul 01 02:15:00 DocScrutinizer, downward speed Jul 01 02:15:02 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals Jul 01 02:15:13 Is a FAQ I wrote ages ago Jul 01 02:15:20 gps sees that as 0, unless we're measuring delta altitude Jul 01 02:15:34 SpeedEvil, thanks :D Jul 01 02:15:58 MohammadAG: openmoko wiki is a real treasure ;-) Jul 01 02:16:03 though I'm in bed and I'd barely understand technicalties atm, so night :) Jul 01 02:16:12 DocScrutinizer, I gather OM was awesome Jul 01 02:16:23 and would've been awesome, the N900 killed it though Jul 01 02:16:23 Awesome, and sucky. Jul 01 02:16:26 At the same time. Jul 01 02:16:27 NAah. Jul 01 02:16:31 spec up your devices Jul 01 02:16:33 N900 was the nail in the coffin. Jul 01 02:16:34 as all wikis Jul 01 02:16:40 get better looks Jul 01 02:16:47 start selling to consumers Jul 01 02:16:50 OM was killed by its own actions. Jul 01 02:17:08 idk what its actions were Jul 01 02:17:10 OM was killed by his own boss Jul 01 02:17:26 For example, they could have had saleable hardware with a working X+GTK+basic phone with SMS and calls in xmas 2007. Jul 01 02:17:56 but no, we go for QtMoko Jul 01 02:18:13 But they decided to go for shiny, when apple and others were coming over the horizon - and did a major software change, followed by another change to Qt, followed by a change away from Qt Jul 01 02:19:21 I really wish someone would write an insider's history of Openmoko. Something like "The soul of a New Machine". Jul 01 02:19:25 then some users said "enough now!" and started SHR - stable hybrid release, cherrypicking where due Jul 01 02:20:14 keeping X11 Jul 01 02:20:36 keeping Enlightenment/Illiume Jul 01 02:21:07 * ShadowJK thought the device looked cool in pictures, design-wise Jul 01 02:21:38 looks like a shower radio, or a poorly built hockey puck Jul 01 02:21:39 The Freerunner is *still* a wonderful GPS unit, IMHO. Jul 01 02:22:20 yeah the GPS chipset of uBLOX isn't really bad Jul 01 02:22:33 There was some work done on using the GPS to get differential positions in the decimeter range. Jul 01 02:22:41 That could have been truly awesome if polished. Jul 01 02:22:45 and we got an external GPS antenna connector Jul 01 02:22:48 ;-) Jul 01 02:23:02 talking about gps:s, is it only me or does the gps in the n900 realy suck? Jul 01 02:23:30 Gyjf: sucks without SIM Jul 01 02:23:31 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS has some graphs Jul 01 02:23:48 SIM? as in SIM card? Jul 01 02:23:52 yep Jul 01 02:24:03 i have a simcard Jul 01 02:24:26 Freerunner GPS sucks with uSD card, N900 GPS sucks without SIM card :-P Jul 01 02:24:58 cya folks Jul 01 02:25:13 Have a good snooze. Jul 01 02:25:17 Night. Jul 01 02:26:24 even with a simcard it cant seem to lock on enough sattelites to fix Jul 01 02:27:04 Outside? Jul 01 02:27:11 Gyjf, That does not match my experience. Jul 01 02:27:14 There have been reports of hardware problems with some units. Jul 01 02:27:38 so its probable that i have a bad unit? Jul 01 02:27:47 It's not impossible. Jul 01 02:28:07 If you still have problems with a SIM in, after it's had a lock prior, outside, then definately. Jul 01 02:28:26 unlikely, use location test app Jul 01 02:28:57 lots of apps do nonsense on liblocation Jul 01 02:29:04 even maemo maps Jul 01 02:29:08 http://maemo.org/packages/view/location-test-gui/ Jul 01 02:29:28 is that in the main repos? Jul 01 02:30:40 * ShadowJK uses gpsjinni for offline (location-test-gui pops up network to resolve street names) Jul 01 02:31:53 Gyjf, sdk tools repo probably? Jul 01 02:34:01 couldnt find it in the installer Jul 01 02:35:43 location test gui, AGPS, 1s interval. Solid 3D fix indoors old building without concrete: 5s Jul 01 02:37:53 Ugh, Google+ invites. Jul 01 02:38:12 another facebook? Jul 01 02:38:21 I guess. Jul 01 02:39:27 google+ == facebook+++ Jul 01 02:41:47 Outside - had a fix in the last few days - with cellmo - good GPS fix in ~6s **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 01 02:59:57 2011