**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 05 02:59:57 2011 Jul 05 03:43:34 LOL Jul 05 03:46:32 vermicious knids Jul 05 04:19:43 turn off the tv forever Jul 05 04:40:11 Hello Jul 05 04:43:51 hi Jul 05 04:50:04 Morning everyone Jul 05 05:19:11 ok, since turning the mce source code for MeeGo or Harmattan into code that matches Fremantle is impossible, time to go back to the other project I am working on and write some complete documentation on how to write a new tklock systemui plugin Jul 05 05:23:53 anyone successfully booted openwrt kernel on n8x0? for some reason it hangs after mounting root partition and freeing unused memory (init is supposed to be started just after it) Jul 05 06:06:56 slonopotamus, topic? Jul 05 06:12:43 crashanddie: that's maemo init :P Jul 05 06:13:30 "PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED" Jul 05 06:15:22 I thought it also said stay clear of shit Jul 05 06:18:57 hi MohammadAG Jul 05 06:20:35 hey jonwil Jul 05 06:20:59 The work to turn the MeeGo and Harmattan mce code into usable Fremantle mce code was a bust Jul 05 06:21:17 because of too many changes in powerkey and devlock Jul 05 06:22:00 why? what would break? Jul 05 06:22:33 well MeeGo mce code has no devlock code at all Jul 05 06:23:10 what's devlock? Jul 05 06:23:37 device lock I believe Jul 05 06:23:50 can't it be implemented manually? Jul 05 06:24:02 no, not really Jul 05 06:24:15 It's just a dialog that compares the code enter with cal's lock-code value Jul 05 06:24:26 with some dbus calls Jul 05 06:24:31 Its not that simple from what I can tell Jul 05 06:24:40 but even given that, there are too many differences in the powerkey code to get something that works on Fremantle without breaking stuff Jul 05 06:24:43 and in the tklock code Jul 05 06:29:35 the devlock code for example installes handlers to 5 different datapipes (whatever those are) as well as at least 2 dbus handlers Jul 05 06:31:04 I do plan to see which of the mce modules/plugins I can come up with usable code for though Jul 05 06:31:22 But right now I am about to make a mailing list post giving all the details you need to replace the tklock systemui plugin Jul 05 06:31:54 tklock? Jul 05 06:32:03 toucscreen/key lock Jul 05 06:32:06 ahh Jul 05 06:32:22 its the slide-to-unlock screen among other things Jul 05 06:37:16 and since MohammadAG is working on a new lockscreen, being able to replace the stock lockscreen instead of simply sitting on top of it seems like a useful goal Jul 05 06:37:55 remember the lock screen can also initiate emergency calls Jul 05 06:38:50 I'd aim for it to be able to make either A, emergency calls, B, calls to contacts, or C, calls to all from there. Jul 05 06:38:58 That code (whatever it might be) is an implementation detail of the lockscreen itself. Should the stock lockscreen make any dbus calls or other special API calls, those calls will be documented Jul 05 06:39:01 depending on settingsd Jul 05 06:40:00 Anything else not handled by the lockscreen may be handled by mce Jul 05 06:40:03 such as alarm related code Jul 05 06:40:26 btw, we are talking about the swipe/to/unlock screen here, not the enter-a-code device lock Jul 05 06:40:32 which is different code altogether Jul 05 06:40:55 oh ok - right Jul 05 06:41:29 If MohammadAG or anyone else wants me to reverse engineer the enter-a-code lock logic, I will do that later Jul 05 07:18:51 Morning, all Jul 05 07:18:58 morning Jul 05 07:23:44 <[DarkGUNMAN]> morning Jul 05 07:48:02 I think I am finally beginning to understand the mysteries of the universe. Or at least of the Maemo tklock ui code :) Jul 05 08:02:13 jonwil: Be careful: if you find out too much and start talking about it, the agents of the world government will come in a white van and take you away to the mental institution! Jul 05 08:02:27 lol Jul 05 08:20:59 debugging code written on the wall of institution with an imaginary pencil is probably difficult Jul 05 08:21:34 is it me or does n950 battery go down really fast just idling overnight Jul 05 08:27:57 macmaN: I never check overnight as I charge at night. Jul 05 08:28:14 But during the day I have plenty left. Jul 05 08:29:10 right, just seems a bit uncomfortable with getting n900 finally last like 3 full days or so Jul 05 08:31:59 macmaN, always keep the N900 on charger while you sleep, and in offline mode. then at the morning when you wake up, plug the charger out and in again Jul 05 08:32:18 by the time you depart, it will be full Jul 05 08:32:40 n950 you mean or...? Jul 05 08:32:47 i dont have an issue with n900 :> Jul 05 08:32:51 macmaN, I thought we're talking N900 Jul 05 08:33:00 aaah Jul 05 08:33:00 no, just comparing Jul 05 08:33:04 you meant your N950... ehh. Jul 05 08:33:11 * Venemo is envious :) Jul 05 08:33:21 ooh look at me i'm so cool i can complain about a very exclusive phone for developers Jul 05 08:33:21 i hate you so much right now Jul 05 08:33:39 right this hate is just spreading too, im getting attacked on tmo even :> Jul 05 08:33:47 also try to install powertop or something like that Jul 05 08:33:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1044883 Jul 05 08:33:56 perhaps you have something draining your battery Jul 05 08:34:23 it does have some energy profiler app built in Jul 05 08:35:48 maybe it's just a bug Jul 05 08:39:46 macmaN, btw, congrats for your N950 Jul 05 08:40:21 <[DarkGUNMAN]> aye.. lucky bugger Jul 05 08:41:04 kerio, your not a little... butthurt are you? Jul 05 08:41:12 noooo Jul 05 08:41:14 why would you think so Jul 05 08:41:26 ooh look at me i'm so cool i can complain about a very exclusive phone for developers Jul 05 08:41:41 i was sarcastic Jul 05 08:41:45 i'm absolutely butthurt Jul 05 08:41:53 lol Jul 05 08:42:14 this thing really is tha shiznit Jul 05 08:42:19 so no wonder Jul 05 08:42:35 honestly, swipe just redefined how these stupid devices are supposed to be used Jul 05 08:42:44 what does it do? Jul 05 08:42:49 all of them, android ios etc blah Jul 05 08:43:03 hi, i am looking for a similar frontend to promote packages like http://maemo.org/packages/ ? is it a plugin within Midgard CMS or a self written frontend? Jul 05 08:43:12 kerio, it makes phone calls? Jul 05 08:43:16 :p Jul 05 08:43:28 i was talking about swype Jul 05 08:43:55 oh. It's not swype, it's swipe Jul 05 08:44:10 oh ok Jul 05 08:44:11 MrRagga: It is a midcom component. Jul 05 08:44:13 im just talking about the gesture in general, who cares what the trademark is called Jul 05 08:44:14 not the keyboard then Jul 05 08:44:32 just the way how it matches with human cognition Jul 05 08:44:49 X-Fade: so a component within the cms system? if i install midgard i can test it myself? Jul 05 08:45:07 MrRagga: Yes. Jul 05 08:45:07 with re app and context switching. definitely shows that nokia does have a few bright sports either in house or the people in companies they work with. Jul 05 08:45:15 *had Jul 05 08:45:15 X-Fade: thanks Jul 05 08:45:24 i havent found out yet who has originally come up with the whole concept Jul 05 08:45:34 macmaN: It is very geared towards maemo of course. Jul 05 08:51:40 well well well what do we have here? Jul 05 08:52:26 Someone using a nickname they have never used before. But they are using a certain country provider and real name that tells everyone who they are! :p Jul 05 08:53:39 Or one big coincidence Jul 05 08:53:54 come on, there could be more than one joerg in germany Jul 05 08:59:39 I know 3 joergs in germany :P Jul 05 08:59:47 heh Jul 05 09:11:45 hiemanshu: do they use t-dialin? Jul 05 09:13:23 kerio: hah, never checked :P Jul 05 09:27:09 X-Fade: what is the name of the component? Jul 05 09:27:24 MrRagga: org_maemo_packages Jul 05 09:28:15 X-Fade: thanks Jul 05 09:28:31 MrRagga: Very obvious name, isn't it? :) Jul 05 09:31:11 X-Fade: indeed ;) Jul 05 09:31:48 morning Jul 05 09:31:52 Aloiha Jul 05 09:31:55 -i Jul 05 09:32:26 * lardman checks emails.... Jul 05 09:32:38 * lardman experiences disappointment Jul 05 09:32:51 Heh Jul 05 09:33:16 Is it me or are the meego forums going epically slow? Jul 05 09:34:26 So has *anyone* gotten an email from the meego devkit device program? Jul 05 09:34:33 well, the n950 one anyway Jul 05 09:35:04 No Jul 05 09:35:19 I'm sure we'd know as soon as someone has ;) Jul 05 09:35:41 :p, so that means the few who *do* have them got them through other methods Jul 05 09:35:53 Not entirely, but yes. Jul 05 09:36:38 that's actually decent news. Jul 05 09:39:00 mkay, battery drain is actually mentioned in w22 image release notes Jul 05 09:59:21 any launchpad confirmations yet? :P Jul 05 10:01:55 Nope Jul 05 10:16:52 MohammadAG: its only tuesday :P Jul 05 10:18:37 hmm, I hope someone's told the Launchpad guys that we expect the emails on Wed in that case ;) Jul 05 10:20:31 I'm expecting the device to spend 4 days in customs Jul 05 10:22:18 MohammadAG: thanks for the sociality client, seems to work pretty well :-] Jul 05 10:22:58 * lardman wonders what laptops play nicely with Linux, or rather which don't Jul 05 10:23:16 MohammadAG, I posted a data dump to the mailing list with all the info that is related to the tklock systemui plugin Jul 05 10:23:21 you're welcome obcecado Jul 05 10:23:26 I should update it though Jul 05 10:23:28 In theory it should be enough information to replace it completly Jul 05 10:23:51 jonwil, cool :) Jul 05 10:25:11 I hope it helps you out Jul 05 10:25:16 in your lockscreen work Jul 05 10:25:29 and if you have any questions or need me to do any further reverse engineering, let me know Jul 05 10:25:38 let me know if you need me to figure out what the devlock stuff does also Jul 05 10:26:27 MohammadAG: looks like we can blow harmattan home right open with qml .. Jul 05 10:26:46 Can't wait to get one to do some mods. Jul 05 10:26:53 alterego, err what? Jul 05 10:27:53 Harmattan home looks to be qml based, so should hopefully be quite easy to create extra home views (like widgets) Jul 05 10:28:01 Same goes for anyone else, anything you want me to reverse engineer or dig into, let me know and I will see what I can do :P Jul 05 10:28:20 hmm, is the harmattan ui open source, like fremantle-hildon-desktop? Jul 05 10:28:44 Hurrian: not really no, some parts of it are but the main UX code is not. Jul 05 10:28:59 mmm Jul 05 10:29:05 jonwil: thanks for the email Jul 05 10:29:29 so, if the n900 bombs out on the thumb-2 instructions for harmattan, there's no way we're getting a full port Jul 05 10:29:34 I hope that data dump is actually understandable to anyone but me... Jul 05 10:29:44 yes Jul 05 10:30:02 Sounds like Harmattan goes BACKWARDS as far as whats open and not open goes :( Jul 05 10:30:13 on a side note, damn apt-worker.real Jul 05 10:30:25 i mean, 78% CPU Jul 05 10:30:27 lol, yes indeed Jul 05 10:30:30 you have got to be kidding me Jul 05 10:30:40 has nokia heard of apt-get? Jul 05 10:31:02 Can't you just disablwe it? Jul 05 10:31:34 uhh, lets see here, auto-update interval Jul 05 10:31:47 next update : after universe's chill death Jul 05 10:31:48 Oh, yea. I did that on my N900. set it to 1 year Jul 05 10:32:02 it'll never do it, because you'll manually update more than that Jul 05 10:32:55 which reminds me, i'll need to redo my ext4 /home Jul 05 10:32:55 hmm I need to disable that auto update crap Jul 05 10:33:11 i'll probably wait for power48 with the anti-ext4-corruption patch Jul 05 10:33:33 what corruption patch? Jul 05 10:34:23 ask tigerite Jul 05 10:35:37 jonwil, just read the email, nice :) Jul 05 10:35:55 are you sure "silent" isn't about HILDON_DO_NOT_DISTURB? Jul 05 10:36:27 I ran xprop on the default lockscreen and that atom was set Jul 05 10:36:34 it blocks banners/notifications etc Jul 05 10:37:08 also, TKLOCK_ENABLE_VISUAL doesn't send the signal unlocked, just the one for display = on Jul 05 10:37:19 ok, well something is sending unlocked Jul 05 10:37:24 must be the other TKLOCK_blah Jul 05 10:37:27 MohammadAG , working on the lockscreen? Jul 05 10:37:27 whatever that is Jul 05 10:37:30 in that mode, tactile feedback isn't on Jul 05 10:38:04 I already made a lockscreen, but it overlays the old one Jul 05 10:38:18 will this lockscreen be open source? Jul 05 10:38:21 jonwil, that's what HILDON_STACKING_LAYER IS FOR Jul 05 10:38:51 http://gitorious.org/maemo5-foss-lockscreen iirc Jul 05 10:39:13 a higher stacking layer means hildon will show it on top Jul 05 10:39:35 the call dialog is layer 9 or 10, slide to answer is that +1 so it overlays it Jul 05 10:40:48 HILDON_WM_ACTION_NO_TRANSITIONS disables transitions, the lockscreen is a dialog shown fullscreen and not a window, so if transitions are enabled it slides downwards (which is a nice effect, but Nokia decided to take it out in PR1.1) Jul 05 10:41:59 MAG, i like the transition ;) Jul 05 10:42:12 regarding silent, I can confirm that the code I have for both Diablo and MeeGo says "@param silent TRUE to disable infoprints, FALSE to enable infoprints" Jul 05 10:43:16 As for HILDON_DO_NOT_DISTURB, the only places I see that reference it are hildon-desktop.launch, libhildon-1.so, tscalibrate and volume_status_menu_item.so Jul 05 10:43:23 Hurrian, me too, that's why I kept it ;) Jul 05 10:43:41 all except the last one are open source IIRC Jul 05 10:43:43 jonwil, that atom hides all notifications except battery low Jul 05 10:44:14 volume_status_menu_item.so uses it so the volume bar doesn't show while you're using the volume keys with the status menu open Jul 05 10:44:29 ok, so anything else you need me to reverse engineer at this point? Jul 05 10:44:33 or to investigate? Jul 05 10:44:36 heya Jul 05 10:44:38 that's kinda retarded, since that's why the status menu closes before an IM arrives, so the flag is no longer valid Jul 05 10:44:51 anyone received an email from launchpad yet? Jul 05 10:45:05 Termana: what's up? Jul 05 10:45:15 Venemo_N900, all of us, except you Jul 05 10:45:31 :P Jul 05 10:45:32 jonwil, I think that's about enough info Jul 05 10:45:46 thanks Jul 05 10:45:55 ok, great Jul 05 10:46:34 So now you can make a complete replacement for libsystemuiplugin_tklock.so Jul 05 10:46:47 which is how it should be done (rather than overlaying the default lockscreen) Jul 05 10:47:20 Do you need me to figure out the devlock (device lock) stuff? Jul 05 10:47:37 no need, but my C skills are meh at best Jul 05 10:47:44 MohammadAG, srsly? Jul 05 10:47:50 kerio: hiemanshu: eh? joerg? Jul 05 10:48:00 Venemo_N900, of course... not Jul 05 10:48:19 MohammadAG, ? Jul 05 10:48:23 ah, ok. Jul 05 10:48:28 I understand :P Jul 05 10:48:36 Venemo_N900, I was messing around, no one got anything Jul 05 10:48:44 besides Jaffa Jul 05 10:48:47 ok, so I wont bother reverse engineering the device lock bits then Jul 05 10:49:23 Ok, so if I am going to reverse engineer some mce plugins, which plugin(s) should I focus on? Jul 05 10:49:34 Which ones would be usefull to have as open source? Jul 05 10:49:47 there are some open source ones afaik Jul 05 10:49:56 in MeeGo's repo Jul 05 10:50:15 jonwil: did you find that accidentally released code? Jul 05 10:50:31 yep, I found the Diablo MCE code Jul 05 10:50:35 MohammadAG, I'm starting to get worried Jul 05 10:50:36 cool Jul 05 10:50:39 didnt help all that much Jul 05 10:50:45 :) Jul 05 10:50:46 as the N900 and N8x0 are so diffrerent Jul 05 10:51:24 yea Jul 05 10:52:14 yeah the MeeGo mce codebase has some meego mce plugins Jul 05 10:53:03 But what I am trying to find out is which maemo MCE plugins I should clone (using the meego MCE plugin code as a guide and reference and then matching that code back to the Fremantle binaries) Jul 05 10:54:10 we have libaccellerometer.so, libalarm.so, libaudiorouting.so, libbattery.so, libcallstate.so, libcamera.so, libdisplay.so, libfilter-brightness-als.so, libfilter-brightness-simple.so, libhomekey.so, libinactivity.so, libkeypad.so, libled.so and libvibrator.so Jul 05 10:54:26 which of those sound like they would be worth being able to recompile and replace on Fremantle? Jul 05 10:56:02 * SpeedEvil thinks he'd need to do way more research. Jul 05 11:01:53 ~lart Termana Jul 05 11:01:53 * infobot whacks Termana with a giant beaver's tail Jul 05 11:02:08 Jaffa: does the N950 support channel bonding in 802.11n wireless connections? Jul 05 11:02:16 jonne, I'd guess libdisplay Jul 05 11:02:25 libcallstate does some annoying things too Jul 05 11:02:45 I mean, I'd rather have touch disabled than the whole display off when a call is active Jul 05 11:06:51 Jaffa, when clicking the power button on the N950, do you get a menu or does it simply lock the device? Jul 05 11:07:02 locks Jul 05 11:07:15 its actually quite convenient Jul 05 11:07:32 IIRC someone said they wanted to do things for brightness, maybe I should do that too Jul 05 11:07:52 Does the N950 have dedicated camera button? Jul 05 11:07:55 vibrator too Jul 05 11:07:58 no it doesnt Jul 05 11:08:00 app launched Jul 05 11:08:07 lame Jul 05 11:08:28 I might just go ahead and do all of them where possible :) Jul 05 11:08:28 for me it seems like having the camera app in task switcher makes me feel the best Jul 05 11:08:35 on standby Jul 05 11:08:36 harmattan: quickest launch to picture, but you have to find the icon first. Jul 05 11:08:44 lol true Jul 05 11:08:44 yeah Jul 05 11:08:48 was thinking that Jul 05 11:09:06 but since you currently cant close apps at all with downswipe Jul 05 11:09:07 ... Jul 05 11:09:17 I want a recent "media" view in home Jul 05 11:09:19 i guess thats why i dont want to be bothered with relaunching all the time Jul 05 11:09:22 Think I might mod one Jul 05 11:09:46 camerad is always running anyway :) Jul 05 11:09:50 It's prestarted Jul 05 11:10:00 yeah. just a mental thing. Jul 05 11:10:01 cameraui even Jul 05 11:10:44 macmaN, can you comfortably press two hardware buttons at the same time? Jul 05 11:10:55 like power + volume Jul 05 11:10:57 wdym? Jul 05 11:11:07 with one hand or how or what? Jul 05 11:11:11 having a shortcut to the camera is useful Jul 05 11:13:18 ~seen Termana Jul 05 11:13:29 termana is currently on #htc-linux (11h 36m 55s). Has said a total of 13 messages. Is idling for 2h 19m 48s, last said: 'Or one big coincidence'. Jul 05 11:13:30 You know what else I'd like to see modded? Using bluetooth or headset remote to take a picture. Jul 05 11:13:36 That would make having a tripod awesome .. Jul 05 11:14:24 ~seen hiemanshu Jul 05 11:14:25 hiemanshu is currently on #kde (9d 8h 8m 22s). Has said a total of 865 messages. Is idling for 57m 32s, last said: 'MohammadAG: its only tuesday :P'. Jul 05 11:14:54 ~seen DocScrutinizer51 Jul 05 11:14:54 docscrutinizer51 is currently on #openmoko (5d 13h 14m 4s) #openmoko-cdevel (5d 13h 14m 4s). Has said a total of 9 messages. Is idling for 1d 5h 7m 4s, last said: 'moin auch'. Jul 05 11:15:27 ~+chaninfo Jul 05 11:15:29 alterego, you already have a tripod for the N9? Jul 05 11:15:39 HAH Jul 05 11:15:49 crashed it! Jul 05 11:16:03 Not a tripod. A pedestal! Jul 05 11:16:04 No Jul 05 11:16:06 But I'd make one if I did :) Jul 05 11:16:31 Can someone help me get my contacts from phone to conversations to send sms...? Jul 05 11:16:32 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Jul 05 11:16:55 i ordered this http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-plastic-tripod-for-cell-phone-34564 for the n900 Jul 05 11:17:15 MohammadAG: yeah those buttons are quite close, i can see a shortcut thing workingthere Jul 05 11:17:24 you can press them with one hand too Jul 05 11:18:17 ~seen DocScrutinizer51 Jul 05 11:18:18 docscrutinizer51 is currently on #maemo #openmoko-cdevel #openmoko, last said: 'moin auch'. Jul 05 11:18:18 Nice N9 review: http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/07/05/two-weeks-with-the-nokia-n9/?sf1748383=1 Jul 05 11:18:32 ~seen Termana Jul 05 11:18:33 termana is currently on #htc-linux #maemo, last said: 'Or one big coincidence'. Jul 05 11:18:40 better Jul 05 11:19:13 what about ~+chaninfo :P Jul 05 11:19:23 ~+chaninfo Jul 05 11:19:24 I'm on 26 channels: #debian/1084, #maemo/367, #kde/328, #openmoko/104, #htc-linux/82, #openmoko-cdevel/77, #slug/44, #/26, #debianppc/20, #debian.gr/17, ##guleague/14, #elive/10, #debian-bots/9, ##essy/9, #debian-france/8, #openslug/6, #linuxpakistan/4, #wowroster/4, #lugwv/3, ##pxe/3, ##bz-inc/3, ##bspress/2, ##ols/2, ##icf/2, #palmchat/1 Jul 05 11:19:24 i've cached 2229 users, 1981 unique users, distributed over 26 channels. Jul 05 11:19:59 joining in a throttled way Jul 05 11:20:23 ~+chaninfo Jul 05 11:20:24 I'm on 29 channels: #debian/1088, #maemo/367, #kde/328, #openmoko/104, #htc-linux/82, #openmoko-cdevel/77, #slug/44, #/26, #debianppc/20, #debian.gr/17, ##guleague/14, ##ducleague/11, #elive/10, #debian-bots/9, ##essy/9, #debian-france/8, #openslug/6, #linuxpakistan/4, #wowroster/4, #lugwv/3, ##pxe/3, ##bz-inc/3, #arm-netbook/2, ##bspress/2, ##t42/2, ##ols/2, ##icf/2, #palmchat/1 Jul 05 11:20:24 i've cached 2248 users, 1988 unique users, distributed over 29 channels. Jul 05 11:21:02 I just want to send an sms with my n900 but somehow i don't have any contacts to send it to... what can i do about that? Jul 05 11:21:02 “a solid email client” aha Jul 05 11:21:13 not exactly the pov of Jaffa Jul 05 11:24:47 MohammadAG: I still wonder what's the fuss about >>ast said: 'Or one big coincidence'.<< Jul 05 11:25:06 somebody stole my nick or what? Jul 05 11:25:44 [2011-07-05 10:51:49] [CTCP] Versionsanfrage von Termana empfangen. Jul 05 11:28:40 Please guys... someone must have at some point used his device to send an sms... Jul 05 11:29:00 using contacts of course Jul 05 11:29:28 if i choose someone from contacts i can either skype or phone... i want sms... Jul 05 11:29:59 if i choose conversations -> new sms i don't have any contacts... Jul 05 11:30:14 nicofs: sounds broken Jul 05 11:30:23 have you actually tried entering the number for the person you want to sms to? Jul 05 11:30:49 I mean I don't understand what your problem is to be frank Jul 05 11:30:54 psycho_oreos, if i type in a number the sms gets there - but that's not a solution... Jul 05 11:31:13 i can't memorize every number from my contact list... Jul 05 11:31:15 nicofs, can you check if you have SMS disabled for phones? Jul 05 11:31:20 nicofs, so you used to have people in your contacts but now they're all gone? Jul 05 11:31:28 it might be picking up all numbers as phones for some reason Jul 05 11:31:41 psycho_oreos, he has his contacts set up right, but without an SMS button Jul 05 11:31:51 psycho_oreos, i have a full contact list - but the sms app can't access it, i guess Jul 05 11:32:06 nicofs: see MohammadAG's comment Jul 05 11:32:11 Contacts -> SEttings -> Display SMS only for Mobile numbers Jul 05 11:32:12 MohammadAG, how can i do that? Jul 05 11:32:16 MohammadAG, oh Jul 05 11:32:53 or just set the contacts' phone numbers to the correct type Jul 05 11:33:13 MohammadAG, that did the trick... thanks a lot Jul 05 11:33:31 I'm bored. What fun thing can I do with the n900? Jul 05 11:33:40 I've got like an hour to waste Jul 05 11:33:51 n900fly Jul 05 11:33:56 lol Jul 05 11:33:58 I'd rather not Jul 05 11:34:09 I personally wouldn't too :) Jul 05 11:34:33 you could do it programmatically Jul 05 11:34:53 in fact it's a shame the contacts app doesn't do it for you by recognising the numbers Jul 05 11:35:06 price of smashed phone= ~$600, price of replacing broken (and now longer easily obtained N900)= priceless :) Jul 05 11:35:25 nicofs: your SMS service plugin for contacts is messed up or gone (wild handwaving, had same for VoIP) Jul 05 11:35:25 s/now/now\ no/ Jul 05 11:35:25 psycho_oreos meant: price of smashed phone= ~$600, price of replacing broken (and now\ no longer easily obtained N900)= priceless :) Jul 05 11:36:01 nicofs: or what MohammadAG said Jul 05 11:36:13 *rolls eyes* my quote was full of fails lol, ah well Jul 05 11:36:37 Shapeshifter, improve scripts? ;) Jul 05 11:37:38 lardman: ++ Jul 05 11:37:48 I could fix that bug in alarmed Jul 05 11:37:54 mh, but the latest source in on my laptop. Jul 05 11:37:55 lardman: indeed a PITA Jul 05 11:38:06 * Shapeshifter turns on computers at home Jul 05 11:38:09 * lardman ponders the closedness of some components Jul 05 11:38:28 and the fact it means we can't add useful features Jul 05 11:38:41 just write them from scratch Jul 05 11:39:00 lardman: ++ Jul 05 11:39:01 RST38h: yeah, we didn't know we'd need to when the N900 came out though Jul 05 11:39:27 but I guess we should just crack on and do so for the N950/N9 in the expectation that things probably won't get fixed Jul 05 11:39:34 me ponders that the open source components are too complicated for him to understand and adapt. like modest, hildon-desktop etc... Jul 05 11:40:12 some of them for sure Jul 05 11:40:19 lardman: No idea. Not got 802.11n here Jul 05 11:40:25 lardman: Not seen it in the settings Jul 05 11:40:25 I can write a small program in C, but all that stuff is so big and complicated :| Jul 05 11:40:26 telepathy ;-O Jul 05 11:40:29 It'd be so nice if we could go back to the start with n900 Jul 05 11:40:37 And do it 'right'. Jul 05 11:40:38 Jaffa: np, was just curious as I need to buy a new wireless router Jul 05 11:40:48 wl1271 is 802.11n afaik Jul 05 11:40:58 With the knowledge that it's possible to get past some of the closed stuff. Jul 05 11:41:05 lardman: but NOW we know better, don't we? :) Jul 05 11:41:07 And much of the closed stuff was in fact open Jul 05 11:41:12 mmm would be nice to be able to use e17/illume on the n900 instead of hildon... Jul 05 11:41:14 Shapeshifter: and poooooorly documented Jul 05 11:41:21 RST38h: yes I'd say so Jul 05 11:41:34 far too much of the important bits on the N900 and yes the N9 and N950 is closed source Jul 05 11:41:36 RST38h: and if we're wrong, then we can be pleasantlt surprised Jul 05 11:41:40 but there's things that one wished Nokia would have done more of a proper job in adding useful functions in, like alarm without the ability to set workdays is annoying when one has multiple/sequential alarms :) Jul 05 11:41:59 psycho_oreos: I wrote a program for that Jul 05 11:42:03 lardman: always the case with pessimists! =) Jul 05 11:42:04 psycho_oreos: don't get me started on the calendar Jul 05 11:42:23 Shapeshifter, alarmed? :) Jul 05 11:42:36 psycho_oreos: yeah. you can set which workdays Jul 05 11:42:53 lardman, there's plenty of other little nuisances one can find when using N900 on a daily basis :) Jul 05 11:43:16 modest is the worst thing about the n900 Jul 05 11:43:24 HAM Jul 05 11:43:32 apt-get works... Jul 05 11:43:33 HAM Jul 05 11:43:35 meh, simply do email on a *real* PC :-P Jul 05 11:43:45 email is essential in communication Jul 05 11:43:51 more important that phoning, for me Jul 05 11:43:55 Shapeshifter, hmm, should make it a todo thing about importing user set alarms through osso-alarm or osso-clock whatever it was Jul 05 11:44:42 psycho_oreos: won't fly Jul 05 11:45:02 lol email functionality was provided but was not done properly :) its kinda like buying a car that would could actually go but you had to pedal by feet (like flintstones) ;) Jul 05 11:45:02 * ruskie checked stast that the cellco offers for the past few months on his cell usage... calls: 0, 1, 0, 4, 0 sms: 1, 2, 0, 0, 1 mms: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 data(in mb): 200, 300, 100, 200, 400 Jul 05 11:45:14 calls in minutes that is Jul 05 11:45:15 psycho_oreos: you'd have to integrate alarmed into all those usually closed bits Jul 05 11:45:28 DocScrutinizer, I　know I know, as with lots of other things *sigh* I'll just have to do them by hand :/ Jul 05 11:45:47 the individual entries that I had with osso-clock Jul 05 11:45:52 ruskie: I barely do 5 calls a month Jul 05 11:46:02 Shapeshifter, I barely do 1 Jul 05 11:46:03 yeah, like selecting "mobile" instead of "phone" for 70% of new contacts Jul 05 11:46:09 RST38h, lardman Fremantle seems more open than Harmattan Jul 05 11:46:20 Shapeshifter, those were in minutes... so basically last 5 months... 5 minutes of calls Jul 05 11:46:36 :o Jul 05 11:46:39 mhm Jul 05 11:46:52 ruskie: looks like my stats Jul 05 11:47:10 DocScrutinizer, ruskie : me too! Jul 05 11:47:15 I'd like to get data closer to my limit of 2GB Jul 05 11:47:17 damn, I forgot that windows overwrote my MBR Jul 05 11:47:24 but no matter how much I try I can't really get it Jul 05 11:47:25 now my desktop at home booted windows Jul 05 11:47:28 didn't fix it yet Jul 05 11:47:30 ruskie: emule ;-P Jul 05 11:47:40 haven't used that in aeons Jul 05 11:47:46 ruskie: get spare batteries! Jul 05 11:47:47 ruskie, mirror some maemo repositories or even nokia maemo repository ;) Jul 05 11:48:16 ruskie: wathing streaming video is another good way Jul 05 11:48:20 or just crawl through mxr LOL Jul 05 11:48:32 30min of live broadcast ~500MB Jul 05 11:48:39 DocScrutinizer, ha Jul 05 11:48:50 I watched a whole 90 minute footbal match a year or so ago Jul 05 11:48:55 I think it came ~500mb Jul 05 11:49:20 depends on content ;-) Jul 05 11:49:43 fotball has really low info density Jul 05 11:50:17 *MY* fav TV otoh ... ;-P Jul 05 11:50:30 I really can't force my eyes on the tiny screen sadly Jul 05 11:50:59 Get nearsighted Jul 05 11:51:07 you can just use N900 as a mobile broadband modem you know, you don't have to watch things or do things with a small screen :) Jul 05 11:51:16 I regularly watch TV via IPTV and TV linked to AV Jul 05 11:51:34 psycho_oreos, but what would I use it with Jul 05 11:51:44 I don't have a laptop Jul 05 11:51:55 ruskie, not even a computer?　:) Jul 05 11:51:56 I hardly consider the eeepc something worth using a lot... Jul 05 11:52:03 lol Jul 05 11:52:08 ruskie: >/dev/null ;-P Jul 05 11:52:11 and I have a usb 3g dongle that I can use Jul 05 11:52:18 but you have to admit that eeepc has a much bigger screen than N900 :) Jul 05 11:52:34 eeepc 701 Jul 05 11:52:38 lol and null device becomes full ;) Jul 05 11:53:13 so 7" screen Jul 05 11:53:14 yeah, 10" vs what 3 or so inches? :) Jul 05 11:53:15 not that much bigger Jul 05 11:53:21 701 is 7" Jul 05 11:53:21 its still double ;D Jul 05 11:53:41 I'm planing on getting a touchbook or an eee pad transformer or the lenove thinkpad tablet thingy... Jul 05 11:53:46 a friend of mine used to start 3 or 4 concurrent lifestreams when he left home. Rationale: it's flatrate so I want to USE it! OMG Jul 05 11:53:49 erm lenovo even Jul 05 11:54:02 what about a big TV? you can probably do what DocScrutinizer did, hook it up to TV and watch IPTV, youtube or whatever through there :D Jul 05 11:54:18 already have a media box hooked to the tv at home Jul 05 11:54:25 * cpscotti finds out that blinkbox.com works on his n900; "How to use all you data problem" solved. Jul 05 11:54:33 and I'd really NOT want to use 3g to stream anything bigger than a matchbox Jul 05 11:55:12 cpscotti, "not available in your country" Jul 05 11:55:16 just trying to find ways for you to eat up more of that 2G quota :p. I'm somewhat envious (I'm stuck here with 300MB) Jul 05 11:55:17 so... no that doesn't work Jul 05 11:55:29 psycho_oreos, I pay what... 12 eur for that quota Jul 05 11:55:40 I can up it to 20gb for 18 eur Jul 05 11:55:47 or down to I think 100mb for 8 eur Jul 05 11:55:58 I don't make package contracts Jul 05 11:56:03 basic service I pay 5 eur Jul 05 11:56:13 for no minutes, sms, mms, data Jul 05 11:56:43 psycho_oreos, IPTV? Jul 05 11:57:10 ruskie, that's relatively cheap compared to here :) in my case I don't just get 300MB (that 300MB one of the three options I was entitled to as added bonus), I get fair few hours worth of calls, and few SMS for AUD$79/month Jul 05 11:57:11 screw that, how about a script that fetches RSS of new shows and auto-subscribes and torrents them? Jul 05 11:57:27 Hurrian, yeah streaming video TV :) Jul 05 11:57:37 i always wanted to automate my RSS downloads Jul 05 11:57:38 that was somewhat suggested :) Jul 05 11:57:49 heh write a scraper ;) Jul 05 11:58:13 i dont want to look for shows, i want to watch shows, and have the scheduled air times show on some home screen Jul 05 11:58:15 I'm lucky that I'm still keeping my own package... I don't upgrade the package at all... Jul 05 11:58:31 and in my country, digital TV and cable TV are shite Jul 05 11:58:33 the one I started with Jul 05 11:58:53 haha Hurrian that more or less makes two of us Jul 05 11:58:54 ever since i replaced all my tubes with LCD TVs, i need HD content Jul 05 11:59:13 ...the Internet gives me my HD content Jul 05 11:59:20 atm the cheapest I could get would be 7€/month if I started new and I get 51 minutes in that included Jul 05 11:59:22 but damn, i cant be assed to look for my own shows Jul 05 11:59:45 hmm, time to make a script myself then Jul 05 11:59:57 there are tools for that already Hurrian Jul 05 11:59:57 every few hours = timeslot Jul 05 12:00:11 automating rss torrent ep downloads Jul 05 12:00:31 at certain times of day, it dl's and shows... shows/movies of $TIMESLOT genre Jul 05 12:00:42 hmm, should probably add auto-compensation for download times Jul 05 12:02:08 ruskie, i already have RSS for torrent downloads of episodes Jul 05 12:02:21 i meant, the script automatically looks for new shows and downloads them Jul 05 12:02:40 * ruskie is trying to figure out if people really don't calculate that N months*price is higher than buying device operator free... Jul 05 12:03:47 ruskie: people love $1/device + $70/month "unlimited" data Jul 05 12:03:55 yeah I've noticed Jul 05 12:04:02 also, in the USA, people love CDMA Jul 05 12:04:03 over here it's about the same Jul 05 12:04:10 why the fuck they do, i don't know Jul 05 12:04:32 more providers in stateside uses CDMA　from what I've read and heard Jul 05 12:04:39 i mean, if you bring your CDMA superdroid over to Europe, it turns into an iPod Touch ;) Jul 05 12:04:44 or indeed sometimes margnially cheaper as you get more data/minutes/etc if you pay more per month, even if that does subsidise the device cost Jul 05 12:06:04 I bet quims emails are in launchpad spam Jul 05 12:06:22 I'm still hopeful tomorrow is the day :) Jul 05 12:06:41 Hi! I'm thinking about moving to gpe-contacts and gpe-calendar. Jul 05 12:07:06 How can I easily import my contacts and calendars into the gpe apps? Jul 05 12:07:06 the media made a point in calculating how much an iphone 4 costs on contract vs cellco free... Jul 05 12:07:08 great ... Jul 05 12:07:18 ruskie: and? Jul 05 12:07:18 the diff between the cheapest 16gb model was like 400eur overpayed Jul 05 12:07:34 wow Jul 05 12:07:37 got a link? Jul 05 12:07:59 http://www.delo.si/druzba/infoteh/koliko-stane-iphone.html <-- you'll need to translate it ;) Jul 05 12:08:14 the comparison on how much it costs you from operators is in the pdf linked to at the bottom of the article Jul 05 12:08:18 heh, thanks Jul 05 12:08:29 the free price of it is somewhere in the beginging(630 eur) Jul 05 12:08:48 Yeah, sounds free to me .. Jul 05 12:09:26 I mean taking out a loan for 630 eur you would overpay like 20-50 eur somewhere... Jul 05 12:10:14 * DocScrutinizer has PAYG since 1999 Jul 05 12:10:24 never felt like changing that Jul 05 12:10:38 same sim? :P Jul 05 12:10:41 yes Jul 05 12:10:43 :-D Jul 05 12:10:54 Heh Jul 05 12:11:42 not like it's my only sim - bought me like 20 or 30 for test purposes Jul 05 12:11:55 Heh Jul 05 12:12:03 I've got about 10 Jul 05 12:12:03 you know, senior EE of a phone builder company Jul 05 12:12:59 ex* Jul 05 12:13:07 I started with prepay Jul 05 12:13:24 but frankly... the prices for calls and data simply were to high Jul 05 12:13:45 they were high in the beginning Jul 05 12:13:56 now are better than contract most usually Jul 05 12:14:00 though I did actually change to postpay like in 2008 or so Jul 05 12:14:53 ah wow Jul 05 12:15:04 and as the subsidized bricks they offer for their contracts never are what I'm looking for, there's definitely no use in contracts for me Jul 05 12:15:22 DocScrutinizer: same Jul 05 12:15:25 im on a contract, dunno about elsewhere in the world but contract + subsidized phone prices in the uk tend to work out fairly decent Jul 05 12:15:39 they give me some useless nokia brick every year Jul 05 12:15:46 lately, they gave me a C3-01 Jul 05 12:15:58 S40 --- the pain Jul 05 12:16:13 s40... imho the best mobile os around Jul 05 12:16:17 for phones Jul 05 12:16:30 ...out of memory Jul 05 12:16:38 what the hell? Jul 05 12:16:45 is nokia still to cheap to buy more RAM? Jul 05 12:16:46 it's not meant to be used as a feature/smart phone Jul 05 12:16:57 it's meant to be used as... a phone Jul 05 12:17:03 anyways, the great tactile on it is... great Jul 05 12:17:18 you can feel the touchscreen button under your finger Jul 05 12:17:30 although i think it has a lot to do with the metal back cover Jul 05 12:17:30 I'm fine with ~10EUR / month right now: pay 30 get 30 on top for bonus minutes/sms. The basic 30 go for 500mb data @ 10/month, the bonus goes higher and higher as my calls are like 5min/month Jul 05 12:17:33 what Jul 05 12:18:03 hmm comparing postpaid and prepaid... the call prices are the same atm... Jul 05 12:18:14 ruskie, not here Jul 05 12:18:21 Hurrian...'feel touchscreen button Jul 05 12:18:28 and if I go with a specific setup(no monthly cost just how much I use) I cen even get mobile net options... Jul 05 12:18:31 i rarely if ever text people, so i always call Jul 05 12:18:53 postpaid Jul 05 12:18:57 US$20/mo with unlimited data + unlimited calls to own network Jul 05 12:19:09 that would certainly save me an extra 5 eur/month Jul 05 12:19:12 Parslee , have you tried any of the new symbian devices? Jul 05 12:19:17 tactile is excellent Jul 05 12:19:19 no Jul 05 12:19:28 but I have some other things enabled on my service that I would then lose Jul 05 12:19:52 The screen dynamically createss raised buttons? Jul 05 12:20:04 parslee , i meant the vibration Jul 05 12:20:16 actually my cellco is offering voip service now as well Jul 05 12:20:20 it's just long enough to feel enough like a button Jul 05 12:20:30 Parslee: your idea is WiP Jul 05 12:20:35 ahh Jul 05 12:20:54 personally half the reason I hold on to my current contract is because of its' unlimited data allowance that my network dont offer any more :< Jul 05 12:21:01 takes another maybe 5 years Jul 05 12:21:09 ruskie, they better start moving to voip and charge for data Jul 05 12:21:21 with 4G mandating all-IP etc Jul 05 12:21:56 haha Jul 05 12:22:00 Hurrian: that's a simplified view on 4G Jul 05 12:22:03 they actually started an LTE test network Jul 05 12:22:10 but they don't even have ipv6 Jul 05 12:22:27 makes sense not to Jul 05 12:22:57 anyone in here who use weechat? Jul 05 12:24:18 well, if you buy their really cheap SIM cards and putting it into your phone, you're already transmitting data to the tower, and basically have a data connection 24/7. what they should charge you for would be the peering to other networks, e.g. the internet Jul 05 12:24:42 their voip setup is free for softphone use and payed for normal calls or to normal numbers through softphone Jul 05 12:25:24 I should probably enable it Jul 05 12:25:35 ruskie, so it's free for voip->voip? Jul 05 12:25:38 yup Jul 05 12:26:08 they do charge 2eur for the service though Jul 05 12:26:10 hmm Jul 05 12:26:14 is it worth it... Jul 05 12:26:18 probably not Jul 05 12:26:23 ah, i noticed a lot of operators switching to IP backbones recently, probably explains all the "unlimited everything" everything Jul 05 12:27:18 ...within one network, of course Jul 05 12:29:53 they really should make this a free service Jul 05 12:31:02 not pay us an extra 2 eur to use it Jul 05 12:31:55 then it would actually make sense to me to get a mobile internet service and use the sip stuff on the n900 and lose the data addon on the main service Jul 05 12:33:42 ruskie, so they should make a service free in order for you to be able to stop paying for their other service as well, that's going to fly.. ;-) Jul 05 12:33:56 flux, you misunderstand ;) Jul 05 12:34:09 I'd still be paying the 5eur/month for normal phone service Jul 05 12:34:13 sip should be included for free in that Jul 05 12:34:32 the only change would be that I would drop the data addon from that service and buy a separate data service from them Jul 05 12:36:12 and yes I would get the data package from them ;) Jul 05 12:36:29 mainly because I don't like for whatever reasons any of the other primary providers Jul 05 12:39:51 * ruskie goes to bother his landline provider that has voip service about when they are planing to unlock access for softphone use... Jul 05 13:04:23 ruskie: I'd like them to pay me 2 eur to use it ;-D Jul 05 13:04:52 DocScrutinizer, hehe Jul 05 13:07:04 ruskie: quite usually VoIP on landline *is* unlocked for softphones - just they frequently don't tell you explicitly how to do it Jul 05 13:07:51 NGN is plain SIP usually Jul 05 13:08:20 hmm Jul 05 13:08:42 whoever linked the reddit about getting N8 as replacement for N900, i whinged @ "@NokiaHelps": https://twitter.com/#!/NokiaHelps/status/88207986937438209 Jul 05 13:09:16 eeeew a twitter URL Jul 05 13:09:30 would you mind to quote plain text here please? Jul 05 13:09:42 "Yes, you are right, N8 not the same as N900, unfortunately it seems that there was no better option in this case. ^PP" Jul 05 13:10:19 =/ Jul 05 13:10:33 hehe Jul 05 13:10:43 they can gimme N9 to replace my N900 Jul 05 13:10:53 lol Jul 05 13:10:55 What The.... The better option is to send back the broken N900 *together* with the N8 Jul 05 13:11:04 xD Jul 05 13:11:05 they can pry the n900 from my cold dead hands Jul 05 13:11:05 i missed the context, but lol Jul 05 13:11:32 visz: ++ Jul 05 13:11:53 it is **MY** N900 Jul 05 13:12:13 visz ++ Jul 05 13:12:15 :P Jul 05 13:12:17 nobody, I repeat NOBODY may keep it and give me N8 crap for it Jul 05 13:13:15 funny how they still haven't picked up the fact that lots of happy maemo owners wouldn't want N8 as a replacement device Jul 05 13:13:55 * SpeedEvil wonders if anyone will get n9 in replacement of n900 Jul 05 13:13:57 all they can do is pretend they are understanding when they aren't in actual fact Jul 05 13:14:04 psycho_oreos, I think they don't understand that there are happy Maemo owners Jul 05 13:14:09 not for the next 3 months Jul 05 13:14:24 maybe not for next 6 Jul 05 13:14:33 Venemo_N900, rather they were blinded by Elop's awe ;) Jul 05 13:14:42 after N9 rollout they may do that Jul 05 13:14:44 psycho_oreos, yea. Jul 05 13:14:59 DocScrutinizer :) Jul 05 13:15:18 well, i have an idea Jul 05 13:15:24 i'll send my N900 back Jul 05 13:15:28 if i get N8 back Jul 05 13:15:41 i'll sell it and buy N900 on ebay Jul 05 13:15:49 and i'll probably even make few quid on it Jul 05 13:15:57 that's what I suggested to do anyway Jul 05 13:16:02 lots of round work Jul 05 13:16:08 jacekowski :) Jul 05 13:16:23 as that's probably what Nokia meant you to do, and only thing they can handle the situation Jul 05 13:16:36 well, sure, there'd be a lot of idiots happily buying an N8 Jul 05 13:17:07 see, Nokia can't find a N900 on ebay for you Jul 05 13:17:36 they can't give you back the original amount of money you paid for N900 Jul 05 13:17:38 DocScrutinizer: looking for me? Jul 05 13:17:39 they should get that N950 production line going for the rest of the happy maemo users or I'm sure someone will sue them Jul 05 13:17:43 hmmmm Jul 05 13:17:51 they can't give you a new N900 as they ran out of stock Jul 05 13:18:20 hiemanshu: what's theat foo about "joerg" a few hours ago? Jul 05 13:18:23 wouldn't they still have the parts for N900? Jul 05 13:18:25 pitchforks and torches for n950s Jul 05 13:18:33 hehe Jul 05 13:18:39 psycho_oreos: no Jul 05 13:18:42 hmm, N8 is only worth around £140 on ebay Jul 05 13:18:51 DocScrutinizer: we saw someone enter as joery with t-dialin host, so kerio thought it was you with a different nick Jul 05 13:19:06 DocScrutinizer: jhb (~joerg@p4FEF564B.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #maemo Jul 05 13:19:10 i didn't, someone else did Jul 05 13:19:16 psycho_oreos: parts appeared on chinese resellers who probably bought the surplus from Nokia for cheap Jul 05 13:19:37 hiemanshu: aah, no wasn't me Jul 05 13:19:44 ah it was Termana Jul 05 13:19:47 DocScrutinizer, lol shocking. They manufacturered N900, had all the tools for hacking N900 physically and it seems like all those stuff went to either scrap or elsewhere Jul 05 13:20:02 DocScrutinizer: yeah, we all are bored waiting for the nokia email, so just trollin :P Jul 05 13:20:22 hiemanshu: there is more then one n900 user in germany :-) Jul 05 13:20:48 meanwhile you lucky N950 guys will be guaranteed of getting N950, other avenue of possibly obtaining N950 has been closed Jul 05 13:20:48 jhb: more like more than one joerg with a t-dialin ISP :P Jul 05 13:21:06 :-) Jul 05 13:21:18 psycho_oreos: well you cant call use lucky until we have one in our hands :P anything can change :P Jul 05 13:21:31 hiemanshu: me? t-dialin? how comes you think I got t-dialin? Jul 05 13:21:42 alterego: Just had a call from Nokia Care - they've got an *enormous* waiting list for N900s at the moment, and can offer a swap for an E7. They wouldn't have N9s for swap until about 3-4 months after launch. Since E7s are going for more than N8s on eBay, and I have another N900 anyway, I'm going for the E7 and will liquidate the cash towards an N9 ;-) Jul 05 13:21:59 DocScrutinizer: Someone using a nickname they have never used before. But they are using a certain country provider and real name that tells everyone who they are! :p Jul 05 13:22:17 hiemanshu, I can't vouch for guaranteed but I'm sure you guys would have the upper hand of getting N950 than those who either got rejected or didn't apply for one in time :) Jul 05 13:22:57 psycho_oreos: true :D Jul 05 13:23:17 hiemanshu: I hope there's no indication whatsoever about the internet provider and link I'm using Jul 05 13:23:54 DocScrutinizer: nope, you are cloaked Jul 05 13:25:15 DocScrutinizer, if the devices don't ship before Thursday I'll probably leave and ask someone to ship it to me Jul 05 13:25:42 hiemanshu, I got rejected for that OSS　but I didn't think the other avenue would be closed. They stated somewhere towards end of July and its already now closed, lame Jul 05 13:26:10 psycho_oreos: they got more applications then they expected, which is a good thing actually Jul 05 13:26:47 hiemanshu, I don't think that will change Elop's stance of scrapping meego in the long run Jul 05 13:27:20 psycho_oreos: lets murder him and appoint DocScrutinizer as the next CEO :D Jul 05 13:27:38 psycho_oreos: Oh - the other one which said end July has closed? Jul 05 13:27:42 though one thing qgil said on that meego thread kept reminding me about how hard it was for them to shortlist people Jul 05 13:27:43 we will have OSS meego, with hostmode and nice hardware :P Jul 05 13:27:53 hiemanshu, only one can hope Jul 05 13:27:58 SpeedEvil, yup :/ Jul 05 13:28:04 Meh. Jul 05 13:28:19 Oh well, I guess my backup plan of mugging someone comes to the fore then. Jul 05 13:28:37 Easier than writing a nice blurb about what I'll do is. Jul 05 13:29:19 and that ebay scam is starting to look really shiny (as in addictive) Jul 05 13:29:32 :) Jul 05 13:29:55 s/addictive/tempting/ Jul 05 13:29:55 psycho_oreos meant: and that ebay scam is starting to look really shiny (as in tempting) Jul 05 13:31:11 SpeedEvil, I guess you were rejected or didn't apply for one in time? Jul 05 13:32:29 Rejected from the oss program. My initial app was basically platform, not apps. I added some apps later on, but that wasn't counted Jul 05 13:32:49 haha makes two of us :) two known rejects Jul 05 13:32:58 SpeedEvil: 3 of them dont have owners yet, try again Jul 05 13:33:39 hiemanshu: I've already pinged quim about my entry for reconsideration, and been knocked back, so I doubt it. Jul 05 13:33:58 http://wiki.meego.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Speedevil/Projects Jul 05 13:34:10 SpeedEvil: ah Jul 05 13:34:20 The apps section was largely tacked on, and would admittedly mean me learning Qt/... Jul 05 13:35:10 bleh, the tesco app should get you a device on its own :< Jul 05 13:35:14 I　wonder if the are still short listing applicants or are they going to just reserve the 3 extras just for themselves? Jul 05 13:35:23 nid0: I added that after the deadline Jul 05 13:36:31 <[DarkGUNMAN]> do you have any good online resources for learnng qt from the very beginning? Jul 05 13:36:51 SpeedEvil: I also changed my application significantly to emphasize H-E-N is an APP, shortly after deadline Jul 05 13:37:03 [DarkGUNMAN], do you know C++? Jul 05 13:37:28 <[DarkGUNMAN]> nope. never touched it Jul 05 13:37:45 <[DarkGUNMAN]> only stuff i did was vb and autoit Jul 05 13:37:46 then it will be a bit more difficult Jul 05 13:38:01 if you ever coded anything, that may help. Jul 05 13:39:04 vb is a good basis to start with python and Qt bindings Jul 05 13:39:12 wow, David Weinehall responded to my tklock post (presumably the same guy who's name appears at the top of Jul 05 13:39:19 the top of the tklock source files in MCE Jul 05 13:39:19 so from the forum postings we know atleast they are working on our accounts Jul 05 13:39:21 <[DarkGUNMAN]> yes I do code, but nothing too heavy. still I have to start somewhere and if you have any good newbie links i'd be grateful Jul 05 13:39:38 and has clarified a couple of things which is nice :) Jul 05 13:39:38 jonwil: \o/ Jul 05 13:39:41 W00T, it shows for me Jul 05 13:39:50 DocScrutinizer: it shows that I am a part of launchpad Jul 05 13:39:59 jonwil: $Nokia starts to notice your existence Jul 05 13:40:21 alterego: no email, but check your developer account settings, Jul 05 13:40:27 hiemanshu: welcome to the club Jul 05 13:40:37 hiemanshu: so what we're supposed to do now? Jul 05 13:40:43 DocScrutinizer: lets wait :P Jul 05 13:40:48 jonwil: :) Jul 05 13:40:50 DocScrutinizer: atleast we are in the same boat now :P Jul 05 13:40:58 DocScrutinizer: http://i.imgur.com/7eeKm.png Jul 05 13:41:00 wait for WHAT? wait for DHL ringing my doorbell? Jul 05 13:41:49 DocScrutinizer: email saying 'We have a N950 waiting for you' Jul 05 13:42:28 [citation needed] Jul 05 13:42:34 DocScrutinizer: https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/ Jul 05 13:42:37 does that open for you? Jul 05 13:42:43 yes Jul 05 13:43:17 ok, so we are in the same boat Jul 05 13:43:28 DocScrutinizer: shouldn't be long now Jul 05 13:43:33 hah Jul 05 13:44:29 we atleast they are accepting you into launchpad Jul 05 13:44:42 see, it's a major PITA to scan all my environment (both IT and RL) for unusual events maybe related to N950 Jul 05 13:45:35 * jonwil is going to send a thankyou note to David thanking him for the clarification on those points :) Jul 05 13:45:44 DocScrutinizer: just do what me and GeneralAntilles did, write a scirpt to check your mail for the keyword N950 and play a nice song or do some disco lights Jul 05 13:45:48 you'll learn quickly that your situation hasn't really improved by getting accepted to launchpad - au contraire Jul 05 13:46:41 I'll LMFAO if the mail reads "there's a N9-devkit pack for you" :-P Jul 05 13:47:17 btw I get mails with N950 in them like a dozen every minute Jul 05 13:47:18 Or if they accidentally start shipping out a dusty pile of n810s. Jul 05 13:49:04 or even "RM-680 available" Jul 05 13:49:21 SpeedEvil: if they ship me a N810 with the features of the N950, I would be happy Jul 05 13:49:29 or "the device from DDP is available now for you" Jul 05 13:49:46 but honestly who says there will be any mail at all? Jul 05 13:49:57 DocScrutinizer: The email I got was "There is a Nokia N950 waiting for you@ Jul 05 13:50:13 Jaffa: OK! that'S a word now Jul 05 13:50:42 Jaffa: could you pretty please answer to http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24950&postcount=396 Jul 05 13:50:52 DocScrutinizer: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-06-30.log.html#t2011-06-30T13:47:23 Jul 05 13:53:00 Jaffa: thanks for the link Jul 05 13:54:13 DocScrutinizer: email saying 'We have a N950 waiting for you' Jul 05 13:54:20 afaik that means place your damn order Jul 05 13:54:27 MohammadAG: right Jul 05 13:54:31 MohammadAG: also check http://i.imgur.com/7eeKm.png Jul 05 13:54:32 err Jul 05 13:54:47 MohammadAG: https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml see if you have been accepted yet Jul 05 13:54:48 did you? :P Jul 05 13:54:51 its tuesday :D Jul 05 13:55:23 My programs Jul 05 13:55:25 No programs. Jul 05 13:55:47 MohammadAG: hah, so I am in atleast :P Jul 05 13:56:26 they're going over applications one by one Jul 05 13:56:33 which really deserves a facepalm Jul 05 13:56:46 I definatly dont think I am deserving of a N950 Jul 05 13:56:58 jonwil: awesome, give yours to SpeedEvil Jul 05 13:57:02 and after they finished that, they'll process those that already were accepted for launchpad ;-P Jul 05 13:57:06 I didnt even apply :P Jul 05 13:57:12 jonwil: damn Jul 05 13:57:15 for that reasons Jul 05 13:57:28 DocScrutinizer: atleast we know, some people cant script :P Jul 05 13:58:06 Time to get back to reverse engineering the mce plugins Jul 05 13:58:19 since reverse engineering the mce binary itself has been a bust Jul 05 13:58:23 jonwil: any pointer to tha convo with weinehall? Jul 05 13:59:01 Venemo_N900, do you plan on continuing the bubbles clone? Jul 05 13:59:12 yes, absolutely Jul 05 13:59:27 DocScrutinizer: https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP is still empty :( Jul 05 13:59:43 yes Jul 05 14:00:02 what is this bubbles clone you speak of? Jul 05 14:00:11 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2011-July/028473.html Jul 05 14:00:21 Thats the post on the developer mailing list by Weinehall Jul 05 14:00:22 "no programs" Jul 05 14:00:44 My response was a private email that basically said " Jul 05 14:00:48 said "thanks for the info" Jul 05 14:01:24 jonwil, it will be a new lockscreen for Maemo 5 Jul 05 14:01:59 Great, then I assume my mailing list posting with the lockscreen details was of value... Jul 05 14:02:45 alterego: muhahah, I got mine today :D :D :D Jul 05 14:03:03 alterego: Me too Jul 05 14:03:12 jonwil: thanks Jul 05 14:04:19 Why are you interested anyway doc? Jul 05 14:05:01 Is there any maemo imap client that can use imap over ssh tunnel? Jul 05 14:05:04 quoting FZ: your launchpad is stuffed with absolutely nothing. I mean you get nothing with your launchpad acceptance Jul 05 14:05:15 Rather than a direct imap connection? Jul 05 14:05:19 jonwil, Nokia Bubbles, a lockscreen for Symbian^3 Jul 05 14:05:27 which seems to have gotten slower as of the latest version Jul 05 14:05:29 NMB: "I get nothing - well that's what I want" Jul 05 14:06:08 FZ: a true Zen saying "Nothing is what I want" Jul 05 14:06:35 so yeah Mohammad, you see the nice mailing list message from David Weinehall? Good to get clarification on those things Jul 05 14:06:52 especially from the guy who wrote the code :) Jul 05 14:07:01 hiemanshu, where did you get the email? spam? Jul 05 14:07:14 MohammadAG: no email, just checked it manually and found it Jul 05 14:08:15 jonwil: follow up on it - probably winehall is eager to shar more info, as he dislikes the closed-source state as much as we all do Jul 05 14:08:16 jonwil, he doesn't seem to be @nokia anymore though Jul 05 14:08:22 or he's using a personal address Jul 05 14:08:46 MohammadAG: a lot of nokians do Jul 05 14:08:57 I just followed up on it with an email that said "thanks for the info, it will really help" basically Jul 05 14:09:01 hiemanshu: and it says there's a device for you there does it? Jul 05 14:09:32 lardman: nope no device, just accepted into launchpad Jul 05 14:09:49 because you can get that page? Jul 05 14:09:50 one step in the long journey towards N950 :P Jul 05 14:10:03 lardman: yes Jul 05 14:10:04 Doc, do you mean you are intending to email David or are you suggesting I should or what? Jul 05 14:10:13 rm_work: yep, an exciting journey for which we know no waypoints ;) Jul 05 14:10:13 lardman: https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP is empty Jul 05 14:10:15 hiemanshu, accepted? huh! Jul 05 14:10:20 Venemo_N900: yes Jul 05 14:10:25 I can also see that page, and it's empty Jul 05 14:10:26 hiemanshu, I envy you Jul 05 14:10:31 Venemo_N900: hah Jul 05 14:10:33 Venemo_N900: check https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/ Jul 05 14:10:40 Venemo_N900: if you access it, you have been accepted too Jul 05 14:10:44 it isn't sending emails though Jul 05 14:10:51 jonwil: I'm suggsting you reconsider RE of things you gave up due to missing info, and you go to ask winehall about those missing bits Jul 05 14:11:17 Interesting there' a "Maemo test" in the dropdown list Jul 05 14:11:22 hiemanshu, "ou do not have the required access rights to the page you were trying to access. Please see our Developer Programs pages for further details about our offering. " Jul 05 14:11:31 Venemo_N900: ah, so wait Jul 05 14:11:37 Except that he may not have any info on those other things. (or be able to share too much) Jul 05 14:11:38 jonwil: you'll have to learn to ask smart questions, as winehall can't disclose any code longer than 1 or 2 lines Jul 05 14:11:40 lardman: w00t, you are accepeted too :D Jul 05 14:11:48 I've been waiting for a week Jul 05 14:11:57 right, so we're progressing gradually Jul 05 14:11:59 Venemo_N900: I got mine today, you might be tomorrow Jul 05 14:12:02 lardman: yes Jul 05 14:12:11 DocScrutinizer, he can disclose all the code per line Jul 05 14:12:14 ? Jul 05 14:12:24 no, he can disclose fragments I suspect Jul 05 14:12:25 jonwil: but he may be more than happy to help on your RE enterprise, as that should result in sth he thinks is the right thing Jul 05 14:12:27 Venemo_N900: there is another hour left for the day Jul 05 14:12:38 hiemanshu, we shall see then :) Jul 05 14:12:46 I know, patience is a virtue Jul 05 14:13:02 * w00t__ is not yet accepted :-p Jul 05 14:13:11 w00t__: hah Jul 05 14:13:14 Venemo_N900: would probably get him into trouble Jul 05 14:13:16 w00t__, me either Jul 05 14:13:27 With regard to the mce binary itself, there is very little that will let me get something usable short of having the entire code for tklock.c, devlock,c, powerkey.c and the others that are very different between Diablo, Fremantle, MeeGo and Harmattan Jul 05 14:13:30 DocScrutinizer, do you know what I don't understand? Jul 05 14:13:43 * lardman hopes that the Launchpad team are accepting users and adding their N950 at the same time Jul 05 14:13:55 Venemo_N900: there is another hour left for the day Jul 05 14:14:26 what timezone is that? :P Jul 05 14:14:26 lardman, afaik you have to order it Jul 05 14:14:38 jonwil: you can get proper specifications on what that code does, and how, from winehall -maybe Jul 05 14:15:00 I doubt it, its way too much code and info Jul 05 14:15:03 DocScrutinizer, imagine the following: an anonymous Nokia employee and a Maemo fan meet at a pub and share a few beers. Next day, someone from the Maemo community announces that he had rewritten MCE. Jul 05 14:15:06 MohammadAG: it around 4 something there right? or do I have the timezone wrong Jul 05 14:15:15 why isn't this happening? Jul 05 14:15:20 MohammadAG: there's nothing I can order yet Jul 05 14:15:35 Venemo_N900: I know your idea Jul 05 14:15:38 lardman: yes, we'll have to wait for that :( Jul 05 14:16:04 Venemo_N900: too risky if it's about your job Jul 05 14:16:19 hiemanshu, a day ends at 12, or 11:59:59 :P Jul 05 14:16:27 MohammadAG: work day Jul 05 14:16:29 DocScrutinizer, I can recall 2 people who quit Nokia in the past month or so Jul 05 14:16:39 hiemanshu, work days end at 5? Jul 05 14:16:41 Venemo_N900: NDAs still apply typically. Jul 05 14:16:42 DocScrutinizer, couldn't they had done this before they quit? Jul 05 14:16:50 MohammadAG: for most of them yes Jul 05 14:16:58 Venemo_N900: see SpeedEvil Jul 05 14:17:25 SpeedEvil, the aforementioned Maemo community member could insist that he had written the code himself Jul 05 14:17:38 Venemo_N900: you're typically hoping for a good reputation for your next aplication for another job Jul 05 14:18:51 DocScrutinizer, sure, but in this situation, noone would know who did it Jul 05 14:18:53 anyway Jul 05 14:19:09 Venemo_N900: too risky, too sneaky Jul 05 14:19:11 I'll stop this before my next boss reads this discussion :P Jul 05 14:19:20 see? ;-P Jul 05 14:19:46 logs :D Jul 05 14:20:03 actually if you plan to do sth like that, then you typically include stuff to a SDK that's not really needed there Jul 05 14:20:16 or put more to a repo than "intended" Jul 05 14:21:11 e.g a 120MB tarball ;-P Jul 05 14:21:21 "ups" Jul 05 14:21:35 a pity they revoked it before anybody got to download it Jul 05 14:21:51 lol, has it actually happened? Jul 05 14:22:00 ask javispedro Jul 05 14:22:05 :D Jul 05 14:22:06 lol Jul 05 14:22:34 yep, he found it cached on google Jul 05 14:22:40 not the actual tarball though Jul 05 14:22:57 found what? Jul 05 14:23:09 a 120MB tarbal in the repos Jul 05 14:23:13 heh Jul 05 14:23:14 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vh48kRUtKpoJ:harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/p/package-manager/+http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/package-manager&cd=2&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.es Jul 05 14:23:33 heh, talk about massive source.. Jul 05 14:23:36 a 117mb tarball calaiming to be source for harmattan package-manager Jul 05 14:24:29 hmmm Jul 05 14:24:36 alas we don't know the 57 guys who actually downloaded it Jul 05 14:24:40 nice thing to put in repos Jul 05 14:25:05 and, .deb? Jul 05 14:25:11 how do you know anyone actually downloaded it? Jul 05 14:25:11 wasn't MeeGo supposed to use .rm? Jul 05 14:25:13 so this bit got loast for community, whatever it was Jul 05 14:25:16 s/rm/rpm/ Jul 05 14:25:17 FIQ meant: wasn't MeeGo supposed to use .rpm? Jul 05 14:25:30 this is Harmattan, not MeeGo Jul 05 14:25:36 FIQ, Harmattan is Maemo 6, not MeeGo Jul 05 14:25:36 Harmattan uses .deb Jul 05 14:25:54 Hm Jul 05 14:26:10 They brand it as meego :D Jul 05 14:26:19 nokia=confusing? Jul 05 14:26:24 FIQ: pleeease.... Jul 05 14:26:38 btw there is also this Jul 05 14:26:38 this debate is really out Jul 05 14:26:40 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wcUkzAUoYE4J:harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/p/package-manager/package-manager_0.26.2%2B0m6.dsc+http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/p/package-manager/package-manager_0.26.2%2B0m6.dsc&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&source=www.google.com.au Jul 05 14:26:47 which is a cache of the .dsc file Jul 05 14:26:55 DocScrutinizer: i'll not debate, as I don't know much of harmattan Jul 05 14:27:00 and shows that a lot of packages get built from that source Jul 05 14:27:07 about* Jul 05 14:27:09 including test packages Jul 05 14:27:13 FIQ, this is not news. Harmattan is Maemo 6, and that's it. Jul 05 14:27:14 which may explain its large size Jul 05 14:27:34 it's API compatible with MeeGo, so they did put a MeeGo sticker on it. Jul 05 14:27:40 ok Jul 05 14:28:24 didnt http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/o/osso-wlan/ use to be closed source? Jul 05 14:28:33 or do i remember wrong Jul 05 14:28:48 nope, open Jul 05 14:28:51 ok Jul 05 14:29:01 mafw used to be open :P Jul 05 14:29:07 mafw is? Jul 05 14:29:28 mafw's open on Fremantle Jul 05 14:29:33 closed in Harmattan Jul 05 14:29:40 odd Jul 05 14:29:48 lool Jul 05 14:30:02 qmafw is in harmattan, same dbus apis though. Jul 05 14:30:03 I planned to "mirror" (aka wget) the whole friggin repo twice a day, but I'm short of storage on my box Jul 05 14:30:19 alterego, the old API should work too Jul 05 14:30:36 my mediaplayer should build and run on it Jul 05 14:30:40 I *know* there are a few guys on this globe who did Jul 05 14:30:44 how big is it? Jul 05 14:30:50 Sure, and my im status updater :) Jul 05 14:31:01 There are a few things in Harmattan that are open that were closed in Fremantle Jul 05 14:31:10 get rid of pyside, please :P Jul 05 14:31:18 libbmeipc-dev is available in Harmattan but not Fremantle Jul 05 14:31:23 same with libsysinfo-dev Jul 05 14:31:28 and vice versa Jul 05 14:31:47 jonwil: its open? hmm Jul 05 14:31:58 where? Jul 05 14:32:14 well libbmeipc-dev is available in the Harmattan SDK repo Jul 05 14:33:34 but I dont think its actually open, just "usable" in the way that some other headers are Jul 05 14:34:32 at least the .h files contain no license, only a nokia (c) Jul 05 14:34:57 what filenames? Jul 05 14:35:15 usr/include/bme/* Jul 05 14:35:19 in a SDK install Jul 05 14:35:25 package is libbmeipc-dev Jul 05 14:35:42 only available from the nokia-binaries SDK repo Jul 05 14:35:46 i dont have harmattan sdk on my computer nor do i want it :P got a pastebin of the filenames? Jul 05 14:36:12 jonwil: The fact that it is in nokia-binaries means that they are closed :) Jul 05 14:36:24 same license as say libcal-dev Jul 05 14:36:49 at least we have those headers compared to the nightmare of years ago Jul 05 14:37:05 bmeisa.h, bmehal.h, em_isi.h, bmeipc.h, bmemsg.h Jul 05 14:37:13 heh, might have hit gold there Jul 05 14:37:19 Hah, Apple hacked Jul 05 14:37:21 compare with the libbme ones on gitorious? Jul 05 14:37:27 Stskeeps, how come that you're visiting #maemo again? Jul 05 14:37:33 Venemo_N900: autojoin fail Jul 05 14:37:39 Stskeeps, aah. Jul 05 14:38:54 the filenames from Harmattan libbmeipc-dev and from trunk of MeeGo libbme dont match Jul 05 14:39:16 well, you hit gold then Jul 05 14:39:49 Those files are useful for Harmattan work but not so good for Fremantle work as the interface to BME seems different. Jul 05 14:39:53 fairly sure those arent supposed to be there :) Jul 05 14:40:05 Best reference for the Fremantle BME interface is the first revision checked into libbme in MeeGo git Jul 05 14:40:34 I wonder what else isn't supposed to be there :p Jul 05 14:41:44 jonwil: can you pastebin some of those for me? I would like to look at them but don't have access to SDK currently Jul 05 14:42:30 I used some reverse engineering tricks and also various meego git revisions to identify interfaces to libbmeipc as used by other bits of the system (I made a maemo-developer list posting about it the other day). It contained the info one would need to replace BME with a new thing that talked directly to the hardware charger chip and yet not break any existing code Jul 05 14:42:46 I mean existing binaries Jul 05 14:43:30 did you see my old bme protocol page? Jul 05 14:44:02 I think I might have. But in any case we know all we need to know to be able to replace libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme with new bits and not break anything else in the system. Jul 05 14:44:08 Thanks to my list posting :) Jul 05 14:44:20 I could even go further and completly clone libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme if I cared :) Jul 05 14:44:52 rm_work, are you interested in libbmeipc headers for Harmattan or for Fremantle or what? Jul 05 14:44:55 or just curious in general? Jul 05 14:45:04 Harmattan Jul 05 14:45:12 related to something i am working on possibly Jul 05 14:46:27 what I *really* want to see is DSME headers Jul 05 14:46:32 or code... ^_^ Jul 05 14:46:41 dsme is public Jul 05 14:46:47 err? Jul 05 14:46:48 since? Jul 05 14:47:02 since a fairly long time Jul 05 14:47:03 they "said" it was public as of Berlin Jul 05 14:47:12 but only published parts of it that don't matter Jul 05 14:47:19 kept the important bits closed still Jul 05 14:47:22 i need the WHOLE thing Jul 05 14:47:37 which parts are you interested in_ Jul 05 14:47:46 the parts that control the backlight :P Jul 05 14:47:49 dsme is 100% open source Jul 05 14:47:58 rm_work: thats handled in mce now i think Jul 05 14:48:03 T_T Jul 05 14:48:09 so they moved it to MCE and THAT is closed? Jul 05 14:48:14 well, sort of Jul 05 14:48:14 MCE is open in harmattan now also Jul 05 14:48:16 AFAIK Jul 05 14:48:19 AH Jul 05 14:48:22 that would be good Jul 05 14:48:28 fremantle one is, meego n900 mce one is open, Jul 05 14:48:35 i just remember they opened DSME and it was totally useless Jul 05 14:49:15 yeah, we have code for Diablo mce (from who knows where), Harmattan mce, MeeGo mce but not Fremantle mce (where it would be the most usefull :P Jul 05 14:49:23 lol Jul 05 14:50:10 rm_work: meego n900 has a working display plugin, at least Jul 05 14:50:15 and i think ALS code is there too Jul 05 14:50:34 cool Jul 05 14:51:01 hiemanshu: having no "launchpad" listed under "My Programs" means I applied wrong or I have not been reviewed? (don't get it from your forum post) Jul 05 14:51:17 gri: just not reviewed yet, afaik Jul 05 14:51:22 I attempted to take Diablo/MeeGo/Harmattan MCE code and Fremantle binaries, figure out the difference and make some code that matched Fremantle Jul 05 14:51:23 gri: not been reviewed yet Jul 05 14:51:32 but doing it for the main mce binary was too hard Jul 05 14:51:43 Ok, as long I did not apply wrong, that's fine :) Jul 05 14:51:51 too many differences between the 4 versions (Fremantle, Diablo, MeeGo, Harmattan) Jul 05 14:51:52 jonwil: ignore the binary.. plugins are where the guts are Jul 05 14:52:03 yeah I intend to hit the plugins next Jul 05 14:52:27 and see which ones I can reverse engineer into a matches-fremantle state Jul 05 14:54:36 blah Jul 05 14:55:01 not seeing backlight control in MCE besides "is it on, is it dim, is it off" and "set on, set dim, set off" Jul 05 14:55:04 actually there is a lot more in the mce binary than you might think Jul 05 14:55:35 especially related to device lock, tklock, power button Jul 05 14:55:49 those 3 in particular were where I ended up getting stuck, deciding it was too hard and giving up Jul 05 14:56:03 Stskeeps, rm_work backlight has always been controlled in mce afaik Jul 05 14:56:19 MohammadAG: Diablo it was DSME Jul 05 14:56:24 but afaik, the plugin that controls that is closed in fremantle Jul 05 14:56:39 it might be open in MeeGo or Harmattan Jul 05 14:57:29 Interesting, I commented to David and said "Its a pitty the "license change requests" thing never went anywhere Jul 05 14:57:31 (cf bugs like this https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11794 ) " Jul 05 14:57:33 04Bug 11794: Open Fremantle's MCE Jul 05 14:57:43 and he replied and said Definitely. But it took me almost 7 years just to get mce opened up Jul 05 14:57:45 at all (just in time for me leaving Nokia).... Jul 05 14:57:48 so he has left Nokia Jul 05 14:58:24 * Stskeeps isnt happy about the license change requests queue and the way it played out, but still maintains it was a solid process, just one of the wheels was broken Jul 05 14:58:30 ( jonwil: ignore the binary.. plugins are where the guts are) is this also true for tweaking formats in mce.ini file? Jul 05 14:58:38 DocScrutinizer: hmm, good question Jul 05 14:58:41 DocScrutinizer: i dont recall Jul 05 14:59:14 I think mostly the issue with the license-change-requests queue is that the things people wanted were things that were difficult to release for various reasons (some legitimate, some less so) Jul 05 14:59:24 I'm pondering to finally put straight the LP5523 mess, and enable 3 engines and patterns longer than 16 steps Jul 05 14:59:24 yeah, but even slam dunk ones were difficult Jul 05 14:59:42 i think there is something to be said about open source contribution processes from 2003 doesnt apply in 2011s world of git trees and merge requests and open development Jul 05 15:00:08 those processes were centered around code dumps basically Jul 05 15:00:29 er, drops Jul 05 15:00:31 yup Jul 05 15:00:47 seems even intel has difficulties with those, too Jul 05 15:00:49 throw over the wall, listen (or not) for the cheers Jul 05 15:01:18 that's not how FOSS works today Jul 05 15:02:19 I suspect a lot of the license change requests were hard not because they themselves contained senstitive bits but because they would have exposed interfaces that Nokia didnt want to expose Jul 05 15:02:34 e.g. anything that would have exposed the dbus interface used to talk to the CSD daemon and its plugins Jul 05 15:02:45 They seem very reluctant to expose that at all Jul 05 15:02:55 which is likely why cellular-qt is closed source in Harmattan Jul 05 15:03:18 jonwil_: most licence changes were hard because no manpower to assign to the needed code review and legal mambojambo Jul 05 15:03:30 hmmm yeah true Jul 05 15:03:44 I have seen that with other companies when it comes to releasing code Jul 05 15:04:18 in any case there are all sorts of interesting bits of info out there that I plan to make use of where possible Jul 05 15:04:27 No emails yet? Jul 05 15:04:44 basically it is "we developed that 'to just work' and nobody thought about FOSS. Now opening it up means we have to redo the whole process basically" Jul 05 15:05:12 GAN900, not for me, but some lucky bastards got one already, eg. hiemanshu Jul 05 15:05:31 MAIL???? Jul 05 15:05:34 naaw Jul 05 15:05:47 mail Jul 05 15:05:50 GAN900: no email, but I manually checked, and I have been accepted into the program Jul 05 15:05:56 hiemanshu got accepted for launchpad - that's all Jul 05 15:06:04 yea Jul 05 15:06:07 http://pastie.org/pastes/1150052 for example is one random piece of info I stumbled upon Jul 05 15:06:08 with google Jul 05 15:06:30 How many here have been accepted? Jul 05 15:06:38 alterego: me, lardman so far Jul 05 15:06:40 * cpscotti not Jul 05 15:06:50 and I have plugged who knows how many package names, filenames, function names, structure names etc into Google in case something randomly useful shows up... Jul 05 15:07:05 So 2 :) Jul 05 15:07:08 me thinks you are just poking fun at the rest of us mortals with no response yet Jul 05 15:07:48 jonwil: well, ISI stuff is documented quite extensively on openhandeld.com or what's been the URL Jul 05 15:08:00 www.wirelessmodemapi.com Jul 05 15:08:04 and yes ofono code Jul 05 15:08:08 alterego: DocScrutinizer was already in, so technically 3 Jul 05 15:08:15 GAN900: IF they can process two a day we are in pretty good shape :P Jul 05 15:08:17 Thats great if you are working on new stuff Jul 05 15:08:37 but in my case I need to work with the existing closed stack Jul 05 15:08:44 hence reverse engineering is the only answer most of the time Jul 05 15:08:45 yup Jul 05 15:09:11 fiferboy: well timoph was the one that pointed out he was accepted too Jul 05 15:09:19 thats when I checked Jul 05 15:10:10 but things like that pasteie.org paste can really help fill in the gaps some times Jul 05 15:10:14 take that launchpad acceptance and eat it, I want a mail saying "there's a N950 waiting for you" Jul 05 15:10:27 DocScrutinizer: give me your email :P Jul 05 15:10:39 haha Jul 05 15:11:16 at very least I'm not watching for DHL cars parking in front of my house anymore ;-) Jul 05 15:11:33 Also of value is a great package called libcsnet-dev_0.4.14+0m5_armel from the Fremantle SDK nokia-binaries repo. Have to force-install it since its missing dependancies but it contains documentation for all the cellular network dbus calls Jul 05 15:11:38 like signal strength Jul 05 15:11:47 and tower info Jul 05 15:11:49 and stuff Jul 05 15:12:06 though last time with DDP exactly that happened X-P Some package arrived without ANY prior notice Jul 05 15:12:34 javispedro: moo Jul 05 15:12:44 hello Jul 05 15:12:53 javispedro: accepted yet? Jul 05 15:13:12 javispedro: check your account sttaus Jul 05 15:13:31 funnily you mention it Jul 05 15:13:34 javispedro: https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/ Jul 05 15:13:38 check if you can access it Jul 05 15:13:43 though, as just mentioned, launchpad acceptance doesn't buy you a thing really Jul 05 15:13:45 jonwil: nice Jul 05 15:13:48 it now acts like if I never registered. Jul 05 15:14:06 you would be surprised how much info there is in /usr/share/doc/blah Jul 05 15:14:17 javispedro: check https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/ Jul 05 15:14:23 probably why that doc-purger thing is run ;) Jul 05 15:14:27 hiemanshu: and jaffa :P Jul 05 15:14:41 hiemanshu, no, not yet approved seemingly. Jul 05 15:14:44 alterego: right Jul 05 15:15:09 wouldn't I get an email or sth if it were approved Jul 05 15:15:20 jonwil: (libcsnet) could you document all that stuff somewhere on wiki please? Jul 05 15:15:34 its not in an easy form to document Jul 05 15:15:41 and I dont understand it enough myself Jul 05 15:15:43 well, if anyone sees any actually open code for directly controlling backlight level, let me know Jul 05 15:15:44 Anyway, Finnish day would have ended now, so I imagine no more activity until tomorrow. Jul 05 15:15:51 javispedro: nope Jul 05 15:15:52 hiemanshu: were you in the first wave? Jul 05 15:16:00 alterego: yes Jul 05 15:16:02 but AFAICT right now I will still have to reverse engineer it again Jul 05 15:16:30 alterego: so you might be right, and yours might be wednesday :P Jul 05 15:16:44 I will be reverse engineering the mce plugins soon Jul 05 15:17:07 can't you control the backlight via procfs? Jul 05 15:17:21 iirc it's overridden quite quickly Jul 05 15:17:23 If anyone has any clues to backlight (e.g. mce.ini entries, dbus signals or any other known info that could help me locate the specific code for it) please tell me Jul 05 15:17:31 lardman, ah, same as vibra then :S Jul 05 15:17:41 yeah the vibration plugin is on my todo list Jul 05 15:17:45 hiemanshu: well, I was 1st wave too, if that means anything :) Jul 05 15:17:52 alterego: I know Jul 05 15:18:00 especially since its not in any of the MCE code we have Jul 05 15:18:04 qwerty's simple brightness applet? Jul 05 15:18:05 They're either doing it alphabetically, or processing quims mails in order. Jul 05 15:18:07 jonwil: grep for the device name for the sysfs entry? Jul 05 15:18:09 Who knows :) Jul 05 15:18:19 what is the sys/proc entriy then? Jul 05 15:18:26 javispedro: on 770 that is the only way, for Diablo it was in DSME, could set it via a socket Jul 05 15:18:27 btw, accelerometer comes via input layer in harmattan Jul 05 15:18:50 Venemo_N900: i think that just does the stock 5 levels, which is controlled by gconf Jul 05 15:18:57 rm_work, mhm Jul 05 15:19:08 jonwil: for backlight, https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/adv-backlight/advanced-backlight.c?revision=145&root=adv-backlight&view=markup Jul 05 15:19:12 jonwil: that is how it USED to work Jul 05 15:19:21 look for "advanced_backlight_plugin_dsme_update_brightness" function Jul 05 15:19:42 ok, I will see if I can find it Jul 05 15:19:49 I should be able to find it inside mce Jul 05 15:19:52 alterego: they might be doing it in order, but I am sure, I wasn't really fast on the email Jul 05 15:19:53 or "SYSFS_BRIGHTNESS" definition = /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level Jul 05 15:20:17 jonwil: i mean, that is MY function :P dunno what theirs is called Jul 05 15:20:20 jonwil: /sys/nodes are what mce i susing and updating frequently Jul 05 15:20:54 * Jaffa wonders if he should reveal that he *hasn't* got an N950 after all. Nokia shipped him a 5800 instead. Jul 05 15:20:56 jonwil: yeah, that sys node IS still possible to use, but it is immediately overwritten pretty much by ANYTHING Jul 05 15:21:08 Jaffa: rofl Jul 05 15:21:17 :D Jul 05 15:21:33 jonwil: and the formula is retarded T_T Jul 05 15:21:34 Jaffa, srsly? Jul 05 15:21:43 lol Jul 05 15:21:43 Venemo_N900: Yeah, srsly. Jul 05 15:21:44 Jaffa: Another "upgrade"? :D Jul 05 15:21:53 rm_work: It works adequately in pitch darkness to set the backlight level to minimum Jul 05 15:21:53 alterego: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Jul 05 15:21:57 Jaffa :D Jul 05 15:22:08 rm_work: yes. that's where my idea is from, to LD_PRELOAD a wrapper to catch all open() and write() and related file funcrions when tehy match a certain path Jul 05 15:22:11 SpeedEvil: yeah :P Jul 05 15:22:12 alterego: E7s seem to go for about 280 quid these days on ebay Jul 05 15:22:30 are you talking about screen brightness or keyboard backlight? Jul 05 15:22:31 DocScrutinizer: R O F L Jul 05 15:22:35 jonwil: screen Jul 05 15:22:39 ok Jul 05 15:22:42 Is there an easy way to esit the levels that advanced-backlight-widget sets? Jul 05 15:22:56 Jaffa: it's when you tell us they're running windows phone as a strategic coup. Jul 05 15:23:00 SpeedEvil: ? Jul 05 15:23:05 rm_work: ??? Jul 05 15:23:16 rm_work: I want to set the lowest to '2' - for example Jul 05 15:23:20 DocScrutinizer: that just might work, and it's a hilarious idea Jul 05 15:23:26 hiemanshu: so, kinda looks like my tomorrow guess was correct ;) hopefully :) Jul 05 15:23:32 hah Jul 05 15:23:32 it's a HACK Jul 05 15:23:37 SpeedEvil: ah, yeah i could implement that Jul 05 15:23:38 a nasty one too Jul 05 15:23:48 the only way they are approving my launchpad application is with a hammer Jul 05 15:23:49 DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's why I ROFLed :P Jul 05 15:23:51 alterego: SSH only works cos it's running a qemu port to WP7 Jul 05 15:23:51 alterego: yes :) Jul 05 15:23:52 that, or an act of god. Jul 05 15:23:59 alterego: well at least your predicton can no longer be late ;) Jul 05 15:24:20 even more of a hack is to sed -i "s./sys.XXX." mce.binary Jul 05 15:24:29 SpeedEvil: I mean, the "levels" that ABL sets are... any backlight number Jul 05 15:24:39 SpeedEvil: I could allow the user to change the low/high range Jul 05 15:24:45 * javispedro has ordered two devices pluse n950 thing on monday, and is making bets who will ship first: lenovo, amazon, or nokia. Jul 05 15:24:52 so instead of going from 0-127, it goes 2-120 Jul 05 15:24:54 or something Jul 05 15:24:55 ok, in the mce code I see display.h with a #define DISPLAY_BACKLIGHT_PATH /sys/class/backlight Jul 05 15:25:12 javispedro: amazon >_> Jul 05 15:25:22 javispedro: no question :P Jul 05 15:25:32 rm_work, not sure actually, lenovo estimate says shorter time Jul 05 15:25:34 javispedro: you did WHAT? Jul 05 15:25:56 javispedro: order a N950??? Jul 05 15:26:17 obviously not Jul 05 15:26:28 sorry, misread Jul 05 15:26:34 parse as (has ordered two devices) plus (n950 thing) Jul 05 15:26:46 javispedro: amazon usually ships basically instantly... tho i guess, did you buy it from AMAZON, or from some dealer VIA amazon? Jul 05 15:26:54 DocScrutinizer: You're now sending like qole on any mention of 'meltemi' Jul 05 15:26:54 so on Harmattan we have /sys/class/backlight as #define DISPLAY_BACKLIGHT_PATH Jul 05 15:27:08 and in MeeGo code we have the same path defined as DISPLAY_CABC_PATH Jul 05 15:27:09 rm_work, for some reason they have not shipped yet Jul 05 15:27:20 jonwil: well, k. though I doubt the sysfs node is going to be the way to go Jul 05 15:27:22 Either way, it looks like I need to reverse engineer and clone the Fremantle libdisplay.so file for backlight work Jul 05 15:27:27 Jaffa: elaborate please Jul 05 15:27:29 Jaffa: Meltemi! Who knows about that!! Jul 05 15:27:36 then you can replace it Jul 05 15:27:36 rm_work, (despite all of the items I bought being in stock) Jul 05 15:27:40 and do things your way Jul 05 15:27:43 or should be able to Jul 05 15:28:00 yes, that would be useful =) Jul 05 15:28:01 DocScrutinizer: qole at the conference was convinced that finding the answer to "What is Meltemi?" would illuminate Nokia's secret plans for the continuation of MeeGo Jul 05 15:28:13 jonwil: yes, very useful :P Jul 05 15:28:22 lolwut Jul 05 15:28:22 Jaffa: and did he find the answer? Jul 05 15:28:30 DocScrutinizer: It was funny/exciting/embarrassing[* delete as appropriate] Jul 05 15:28:31 Jaffa: sounds rather nuts Jul 05 15:28:35 rm_work, do you follow the maemo-developers mailing llist? Jul 05 15:28:46 Anything I do related to mce code will be posted on there most likely Jul 05 15:28:46 lardman: No, of course not - it's just the name of another internal project. Probably WP7-ey Jul 05 15:28:55 ah ok Jul 05 15:28:57 lardman: But he was like Pavlov's dogs ;) Jul 05 15:28:59 jonwil: i used to but somehow i got un-signed-up Jul 05 15:29:06 ok Jul 05 15:29:12 but i am around here a lot Jul 05 15:29:15 so not a red herring planted on purpose then :) Jul 05 15:29:21 lardman: :) Jul 05 15:29:26 it's a planet on the M57 galaxy Jul 05 15:29:29 *a sun Jul 05 15:29:39 they are obviously sending Elop there. Jul 05 15:29:42 * lardman wonders what the Finnish for "red herring" is Jul 05 15:30:43 harhautus or harhautusyritys apparently fwiw Jul 05 15:30:54 but yeah lots of the readme files and docs for various packages have useful info Jul 05 15:31:35 hmhm, shouldn't the next wind start by J? Jul 05 15:32:10 Why J? Jul 05 15:32:23 yes, what happened to Inverna? Jul 05 15:32:31 It should be G, but we've already done that one, so next by my reckoning is I Jul 05 15:32:33 you mean ilmatar Jul 05 15:33:18 heh Jul 05 15:33:33 sounds like another code word for Qole :) Jul 05 15:34:15 ironically i was at a intel hiring event at the same address of tuxera ntfs guys and a resturant ilmatar Jul 05 15:36:33 cool, someone came up with a header file for the otherwise closed HildonTimeZoneChooser widget Jul 05 15:36:35 neat Jul 05 15:37:05 i still find it interesting it was said that qt5 wont be for symbian Jul 05 15:37:42 I hope the face recognition / object tracking stuff in Harmattan is open enough to use. Jul 05 15:37:44 elopocalypse Jul 05 15:37:55 Though I imagine it's neither recognition or tracking. Jul 05 15:38:26 definitely it's face detection, not recognition Jul 05 15:38:37 Yeah, Jul 05 15:38:50 I'm contemplating an auto tagger for camera Jul 05 15:39:10 Doing it before uploading to facebook, on your phone, seems less intrusive .. Jul 05 15:39:28 who was it that claimed he got true face recognition working on maemo? Jul 05 15:39:29 alterego: apparently more info will be available on that after the N9 launch Jul 05 15:39:31 Where as the auto recognition _on_ facebook, got a lot of flack. Jul 05 15:39:55 DocScrutinizer: face detection Jul 05 15:40:24 I thought somebody was working on recognition though Jul 05 15:40:37 mentioned that 2 or 4 days ago in this chan Jul 05 15:40:40 DocScrutinizer: yes I was Jul 05 15:40:44 I may be wrong Jul 05 15:40:45 I am working on it Jul 05 15:40:52 but I got face detection working Jul 05 15:40:54 aah Jul 05 15:41:20 openCV comes to mind Jul 05 15:41:30 yup Jul 05 15:41:46 * DocScrutinizer wonders about the strange processes in his brain sometimes Jul 05 15:41:49 interesting, the csd-gprs package comes with dbus docs for it Jul 05 15:41:52 neat Jul 05 15:42:00 bbl Jul 05 15:42:43 jonwil: you NEED a blog, or a dedicated wikipage, wher we could look up all the awesome stuff you dig up every day Jul 05 15:42:46 DocScrutinizer: there are quite a few examples with opencv, libface and haar detections Jul 05 15:43:30 jonwil: IRC is too volatile for that sort of stuff Jul 05 15:43:34 :) Jul 05 15:43:46 mailing lists too unstructured Jul 05 15:44:21 * hiemanshu will bbl Jul 05 15:44:30 jonwil: I'm doing my best to keep up with all that bits of info you dump here, but I fail Jul 05 15:44:54 jonwil: yes plz, blog Jul 05 15:45:07 I just dont have the time to do a formal blog. I think the most likely place to dump this would be some wiki page(s) somewhere on the maemo wiki Jul 05 15:45:17 if I get any time to do it that is Jul 05 15:45:29 jonwil: honestly, if you want others to profit from your work, you need a central place where everything is aggregated Jul 05 15:45:56 do it on wiki Jul 05 15:46:18 yeah if I get the chance I will see what I can toss up there Jul 05 15:46:23 in the way of links and info Jul 05 15:46:45 add random bits, the page may look like a mess, as long as the bits are documented there and not only here on IRC Jul 05 15:47:36 jonwil: a blog is not hard. register for some random blog site, just paste whatever you find into the text box and hit "post" Jul 05 15:47:46 jonwil: it's even less clicks than a wiki IMO Jul 05 15:47:53 wiki is better, its easier for me Jul 05 15:47:59 * alterego agrees Jul 05 15:48:06 Just do something .. Jul 05 15:48:08 yeah, given then people can reformat for you Jul 05 15:48:24 and add their own info Jul 05 15:48:40 jonwil: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Wifi_Hotspot and http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/NAT Jul 05 15:48:48 jonwil: ...for an example Jul 05 15:49:12 I'd go with the wiki, then the structure can be organised by people who are interested in that, leaving you to crack on with the investigation, which is what interests you Jul 05 15:49:17 with regards to opening stuff up, more often than not, its not actual code I want, its definitions of dbus calls, disk files, gconf configs and stuff. Or its header files and info on a handful of functions Jul 05 15:49:28 jonwil: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/ for a more messy example Jul 05 15:49:54 for example there are maybe 1/2 dozen functions in libconnui and libconnui-qt that I wish I had info on but dont. Jul 05 15:50:05 lardman: ++ Jul 05 15:53:05 So, kimitake is the 3rd person to get an email. Jul 05 15:53:17 what mail?? Jul 05 15:53:49 n950 Jul 05 15:54:20 :-o Jul 05 15:54:38 jonwil: yeah, do a wiki page like that, and even put a section for "LOOKING FOR INFO ON [...]" and maybe anonymous people will add stuff for you :P Jul 05 15:54:40 who's second then? Jul 05 15:54:56 GeneralAntilles: what does the email look like? Jul 05 15:55:09 DocScrutinizer, think it was thp. Jul 05 15:55:24 hmm Jul 05 15:55:28 rm_work, same as Jaffa's, I guess. Jul 05 15:55:30 no mail here yet Jul 05 15:55:35 which was? Jul 05 15:56:28 "A N950 is waiting for you. Sincerely, noreply@nokia" Jul 05 15:56:50 I gather Jul 05 15:57:12 I got my NACK on friday :( Jul 05 15:57:30 Basically, yes. Jul 05 15:57:50 DocScrutinizer: FWIW, it then did appear in the "Devices available" section of the DDP. Well, that's where the URL in the email went. Jul 05 15:58:07 DocScrutinizer: I was clicking quite quickly so didn't explorer any other routes to get to the same info ;-) Jul 05 15:58:11 Jaffa: \o/ Jul 05 15:58:39 * DocScrutinizer hits F5 Jul 05 15:59:00 not yet Jul 05 15:59:39 hello world Jul 05 15:59:43 sp3000: ping Jul 05 15:59:50 Hey, timeless. Jul 05 15:59:52 Jaffa: you might want to edit your post and add https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP Jul 05 15:59:54 (or any Finnish speaker) Jul 05 15:59:55 hi Jul 05 16:00:09 hi timeless Jul 05 16:00:14 hi timeless, long time no see Jul 05 16:00:22 * timeless is enjoying Toronto Jul 05 16:00:30 heh Jul 05 16:00:34 well... I also managed to give myself a nasty sunburn on Sunday Jul 05 16:00:42 Sunny day... keeping the clouds away ... Jul 05 16:01:03 ok, this is odd Jul 05 16:01:10 Sampo bank sent me a letter in *English* Jul 05 16:01:15 lol Jul 05 16:01:19 * timeless didn't know they could do that Jul 05 16:01:22 * rm_work waves at timeless Jul 05 16:01:27 hi Jul 05 16:01:59 Your loans: | have been transferred from Sampo Bank plc to Sampo Housing Loan Bank plc on . Jul 05 16:02:23 aha Jul 05 16:02:33 You are among those of our favoured loan customers whose loan (see loan numbers and ocrresponding capital above) and related collaterals have been transferred to Sampo Housing Loan Bank plc. Jul 05 16:02:58 congrats Jul 05 16:03:12 DocScrutinizer: Specifically https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 Jul 05 16:03:50 ... Jul 05 16:04:11 Jaffa: even more appreciated to post that link somewhere, as it doesn't show up for me otherwise Jul 05 16:04:34 yay timeless's back :D Jul 05 16:04:35 You must contact your branch of Sampo Bank, use Web bank or call Sampo banks telephone service , if you have a query about the loan, would like to have interest only, if you want to discuss other potential changes to your loan or apply for at new loan. Jul 05 16:04:45 Jul 05 16:05:22 Well, it clearly wasn't written by a native speaker, and it clearly isn't a machine translation... Jul 05 16:05:40 DocScrutinizer: It's in the post. But it's the top thing in the email. Hell, it's the only thing I saw ;-) Jul 05 16:06:07 timeless: You're enjoying Canada? Jul 05 16:06:18 yes, it's great Jul 05 16:06:38 wonderful weather (perhaps a bit sunny -- see sun burn...) Jul 05 16:06:44 friendly people (this is a big plus) Jul 05 16:06:49 you're not in... FRENCH CANADA... are you? T_T Jul 05 16:06:53 lots of things to do (this is a huge difference) Jul 05 16:07:06 rm_work: no, Toronto is definitely not French Canada :) Jul 05 16:07:10 Jaffa: fine, now I definitely know what to script Jul 05 16:07:11 whew Jul 05 16:07:11 rm_work: He said friendly people, so no :P Jul 05 16:07:12 :-) Jul 05 16:07:17 fiferboy: yeah :P Jul 05 16:07:38 * rm_work has to deal with french canadians for work T_T Jul 05 16:07:56 * fiferboy does too, but not directly Jul 05 16:08:21 DocScrutinizer, stop hitting F5, you'll get an email :P Jul 05 16:08:23 Quebec was interesting last year.... Jul 05 16:08:54 MohammadAG: or not, if it gets rejected by spamfilter like ~70% of Nokia mails Jul 05 16:09:43 DocScrutinizer, you'll see everyone talking about it then ;) Jul 05 16:10:00 lardman: Interesting good? Jul 05 16:10:05 hmm Jul 05 16:10:08 no, I won't as I'm not looking everywhere to see people talk about sth Jul 05 16:10:11 the weather was nice Jul 05 16:10:43 * javispedro curses good weather Jul 05 16:10:46 I'd say we won't be planning to head back soon Jul 05 16:10:47 MohammadAG: scripting the F5 hitting is definitely the better method Jul 05 16:10:50 I want clouds, DARKNESS!! Jul 05 16:11:06 lardman: Did you see any of English Canada? Jul 05 16:11:19 DocScrutinizer, breaking it off they keyboard is even better :P Jul 05 16:11:38 DocScrutinizer, and you're always on IRC, you'll see most of us talking about how we ordered N950s and are now waiting for them Jul 05 16:11:52 fiferboy: unfortunately not Jul 05 16:12:10 MohammadAG: so what? I got that "watch page" in FF Jul 05 16:12:53 lardman: I drove sort of nearish to Bath in the fall Jul 05 16:13:16 nearish meaning Scotland? ;) Jul 05 16:13:45 lardman: No, Cardiff to London Jul 05 16:13:48 * GAN900 contemplates driving to see the shuttle launch Jul 05 16:13:52 * GAN900 gets lazy. Jul 05 16:13:58 GAN900: It's your last chance! Jul 05 16:14:04 :(, no Finnish speakers? Jul 05 16:14:13 oh right, pretty close then; if you're about again give us a shout, we have more rooms now Jul 05 16:14:24 GAN900: they still launch shuttles? Jul 05 16:15:52 final F5, and nothing available yet Jul 05 16:16:01 * lardman heads for home, catch you all on the morrow Jul 05 16:17:53 hmm, can someone create an instance of a class from itself? Jul 05 16:18:03 DocScrutinizer, last one. Jul 05 16:18:26 timeless, Summer holiday? :P Jul 05 16:18:28 MohammadAG, stupid question? or is there something else? Jul 05 16:19:08 MohammadAG: Of course. Why not? Jul 05 16:19:21 GeneralAntilles: ... Jul 05 16:19:48 hiya timeless Jul 05 16:19:54 Its perfectly fine to create an instance of a class from inside itself Jul 05 16:20:05 hi Jul 05 16:20:32 javispedro, stupid question ;) Jul 05 16:20:54 :D Jul 05 16:21:28 happens sometimes.. Jul 05 16:22:21 * javispedro today for some reason forgot that "-" is used often to represent stdin/stdout in args and wondered why "_" didn't work, until I decided to do an ls and saw the _ file... Jul 05 16:23:14 finding people who know stuff about otherwise undocumented parts of maemo is hard :P Jul 05 16:25:36 and I am now convinced more than ever that we will never have source code for the mce binary that is usable on Fremantle :) Jul 05 16:25:40 - isn't really a Maemo-ism Jul 05 16:25:55 it's a standard Unix-ism Jul 05 16:26:00 Nor will we ever be able to replace the cell stack with ofono (too many undocumented pieces of the jigsaw there) Jul 05 16:26:11 :/ Jul 05 16:26:27 ICD is also too closed to be of use Jul 05 16:28:02 * timeless rotfl Jul 05 16:28:08 Notification concerning transfer of residence Jul 05 16:28:12 Dear Client, Jul 05 16:28:23 You requested a correspondence to Your application in English. Jul 05 16:28:32 jonwil: that's the main reason why i didn't attempt to run gentoo on n900. too much closed stuff. Jul 05 16:28:34 We are sorry to inform, but we cannot give a resolution in English. Jul 05 16:28:55 timeless, that's a bit sad. Jul 05 16:29:11 Short translation to the resultion, sent to You, is that since You have meoved permanently abroad (Canada), You no longer are covered under the Finnish social security system from onwards. Jul 05 16:29:16 Yours sincerely Jul 05 16:29:30 Jul 05 16:29:42 GeneralAntilles: what i find amusing is that she gave me what I wanted Jul 05 16:30:07 timeless: you moved to Canada, permanently? how did i miss that, lol Jul 05 16:30:28 but she sent me two distinct letters: the official Finnish one and the unofficial English one Jul 05 16:30:37 I guess they don't care about cost of mail delivery Jul 05 16:30:52 rm_work: i mostly announced it on fb... Jul 05 16:31:08 i've been here a month Jul 05 16:31:20 well, i also told people @MeeGo/SF Jul 05 16:31:33 since I was going to Toronto the following week.. Jul 05 16:33:10 heh yeah, wonder if i wasn't paying attention or if we aren't FB friends :P Jul 05 16:33:23 ah well, looks like i'm using Google+ now Jul 05 16:34:11 rm_work: you should be able to find me if we aren't, i tried to add people between Jan and May (for Maemo people mostly May) Jul 05 16:34:22 i'm still waiting on G+ Jul 05 16:34:34 i got an invite after it ran out of slots Jul 05 16:34:39 me too Jul 05 16:34:44 they add more slots like every hour or so Jul 05 16:34:56 I got an invite before it ran out of slots and I couldn't join Jul 05 16:34:59 just got my invite on friday from hiemanshu Jul 05 16:35:24 * MohammadAG has to wait 32 days Jul 05 16:35:30 why? Jul 05 16:35:39 if anyone wants invited, PM me your gmail ID Jul 05 16:35:54 invites* Jul 05 16:35:59 cause that's when I turn 18 Jul 05 16:36:24 MohammadAG: under 18 not allowed? Jul 05 16:38:05 hiemanshu, yeah Jul 05 16:38:17 MohammadAG: thats stupid, I thought it was 13+ Jul 05 16:38:34 hiemanshu: no.. it's G+ Jul 05 16:38:34 Given meego-on-N900, the only really closed source bits of software left right now are sgx, wl1251-cal (which I reverse engineered a while back and dumped notes on the wiki for IIRC), sysinfod (whatever that does), closed pulseaudio bits (never did find out what those do or why they need to be closed), libcal and BME Jul 05 16:38:38 and I think GPS blobs Jul 05 16:38:50 This feature is not available for your account Jul 05 16:38:51 You must be over a certain age to use this feature. Jul 05 16:38:54 (hehe) Jul 05 16:39:10 cpscotti: hah Jul 05 16:39:16 MohammadAG: use fake ages :P Jul 05 16:40:13 hiemanshu, cba, they're only 32 days :P Jul 05 16:40:48 MohammadAG: I could change the world in 32 days! :P Jul 05 16:42:36 F5 F5 F5 F5 Jul 05 16:42:43 bleh, the DDP page is still empty :( Jul 05 16:49:36 hehe, same here Jul 05 16:52:47 I wonder why I dont have email yet Jul 05 16:55:07 they haven't found a trainee to check the list yet? :D Jul 05 16:55:38 http://www.new-technology-online.com/black-nokia-n9/ Jul 05 16:55:45 what's w/ the second big picture on that page? Jul 05 16:56:00 haha. Jul 05 16:56:19 The corners change shape when you open the keyboard. Jul 05 16:56:24 What an innovative idea! Jul 05 16:56:42 * SpeedEvil patents. Jul 05 16:56:53 plus it gets extra buttons! Jul 05 16:57:29 Anyone know of a list of all the packages that come with a harmattan install on either n950 or n9? Jul 05 16:57:36 Not the SDK, the actual on-phone package list Jul 05 16:57:50 jonwil: pulseaudio stuff is basically nokia algorithms that help audio quality and other 3gpp mandated stuff Jul 05 16:58:04 jonwil, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=G92Ugk7c Jul 05 16:58:09 Looks like some of that stuff is opensource in Harmattan Jul 05 16:58:28 pulseaudio-meego, pulseaudio-policy-enforcement and some stuff like that Jul 05 16:59:09 oh wait no, looks like they are just not in the SDK Jul 05 16:59:19 think weve abstracted the algorithms out at least Jul 05 16:59:24 you can work without them, fwiw Jul 05 16:59:29 so pulseaudio-module-nokia-algorithms and pulseaudio-module-nokia-common and pulseaudio-module-nokia-eci-parameters Jul 05 16:59:30 but audio quality may suffer Jul 05 16:59:37 seem to remain Jul 05 16:59:45 and are presumably still closed in Harmattan Jul 05 16:59:49 yeah.. and those are pretty much fat chance to get released Jul 05 16:59:57 very much of what makes a nokia phone nokia Jul 05 17:00:39 yeah audio quality is a BIG point of difference with phone makers Jul 05 17:00:59 so algorithims that improve audio quality (esp call quality) are big business Jul 05 17:01:29 i want to transform them towards a lib or something like that so we arent hurt by pulseaudio updates, so thats one action point for me Jul 05 17:01:50 as at this rate we can assume at some point, the honey stops Jul 05 17:02:02 I think the answer would be to do something a bit like what NVIDIA does with their kernel blob for their GPUs Jul 05 17:02:26 :nod: Jul 05 17:02:34 i.e. you figure out the minimum bits that must remain closed and transfer the code into static libraries which dont call any pulseaudio functions at all Jul 05 17:02:46 instead they call glue code Jul 05 17:02:53 which then calls whatever pulseaudio bits they need to call Jul 05 17:02:57 that is my plan, but lets see Jul 05 17:03:12 something else that I think is still closed is the stuff for speaker protection Jul 05 17:03:26 jonwil: wan't a dpkg -l on a n950 rootfs? Jul 05 17:03:31 jonwil: :nod: Jul 05 17:03:33 i.e. to keep audio from damaning the speakers on the device Jul 05 17:03:59 * KMFDM didn't get an n950 :( Jul 05 17:04:16 at least we dont have any closed kernel drivers Jul 05 17:04:18 nor is the n9 going to be sold in my country i'll have to import from germany or something Jul 05 17:04:20 that is just such a mess Jul 05 17:04:37 cryptsetup is on the device, i wonder what theyre doing with that Jul 05 17:04:52 Stskeeps: Linux not having binary driver API is a part of this mess Jul 05 17:04:59 RST38h: no disagreements Jul 05 17:05:02 yeah closed kernel drivers are a nightmare Jul 05 17:05:16 Often though what you get is a company that moves the closed bits to userspace Jul 05 17:05:23 and has a kernel shim that just does the actual hardware access Jul 05 17:05:29 same as what BME does I guess :) Jul 05 17:05:48 Sounds like just an uglier case to do the same though Jul 05 17:06:00 so can anyone tell me just what sysinfod/libsysinfo actually does? Jul 05 17:06:19 best guess is that it retrieves information from various system places (cal, secure storage etc) Jul 05 17:06:25 jonwil: good guess Jul 05 17:06:40 and that its closed because Nokia doesnt want people to be able to touch those secure areas Jul 05 17:07:11 I am surprised that the libsysinfo headers are in the Harmattan SDK though Jul 05 17:07:12 Checking Maemo Heartbeat ... Not Found <-- wtf is Maemo Heartbeat Jul 05 17:07:21 MohammadAG: libiphb Jul 05 17:07:28 very interesting technology but noone uses it Jul 05 17:07:30 MohammadAG: That was/is the thing which synchronised network access IIRC Jul 05 17:07:43 Although it could be that sysinfo headers are in the SDK by mistake... Jul 05 17:07:51 But it should've been implemented at the stack level, rather than being an API developers had to rewrite to use Jul 05 17:07:51 its just a dbus interface Jul 05 17:08:18 (sysinfo) Jul 05 17:08:32 jonwil: http://molly.corsac.net/~corsac/maemo/harmattan/dpkg.txt Jul 05 17:08:57 no, its both a dbus interface (/com/nokia/SystemInfo) and a library (libsysinfo) Jul 05 17:09:11 Both the dbus interface and the library are documented through the headers in the Harmattan SDK Jul 05 17:09:13 think that is just a dbus wrapper Jul 05 17:10:03 possibly Jul 05 17:10:11 although sysinfod links to libsysinfo Jul 05 17:10:16 so it might be the other way around Jul 05 17:10:24 in any case its all documented Jul 05 17:11:08 reading sysinfo.h I can see why some of this stuff is sensitive Jul 05 17:11:41 things like wlan mac address Jul 05 17:11:51 or bluetooth ids Jul 05 17:11:59 or imei Jul 05 17:12:32 secure certificate access Jul 05 17:15:24 I think I finally understand what all the closed-in-meego bits DO at long last :) Jul 05 17:15:31 and why they are closed Jul 05 17:16:09 in meego we have really tried to avoid blobs for no good reason, but some powers are just stronger than us :) Jul 05 17:16:31 yeah Jul 05 17:16:44 Like the FCC for example (referencing wl1251-cal here) Jul 05 17:17:32 being that wl1251-cal appears to be responsible for important stuff related to detecting which of the different sets of wireless regulations should be used at the current time Jul 05 17:17:37 e.g. FCC or EU or whatever Jul 05 17:17:57 at least the situation is better than years ago, we can fairly easily get a binary-only license that can be redistributed for non commercial purposes Jul 05 17:18:00 that is really a big step up Jul 05 17:18:34 are these hardware specific bits? Jul 05 17:18:40 yeah Jul 05 17:18:46 yes, all these bits are specific to the N900 Jul 05 17:18:52 no closed source goes into meego trunk, trunk must not depend on them Jul 05 17:18:59 right Jul 05 17:19:17 ok, just making sure I wasn't reading it wrong Jul 05 17:19:21 I just hope Nokia will give meego-ce all the needed blobs for meego-ce-on-n9(50) Jul 05 17:19:22 it makes the platform so much more portable than maemo ever was Jul 05 17:19:27 jonwil: we are very actively working on it Jul 05 17:19:37 I am sure Jul 05 17:20:02 N9 and N950 should be made first class citizens for meego-ce just as N900 is Jul 05 17:20:57 it has been running alongside meego ce images for a long time Jul 05 17:21:11 i would really like a proper upstream based kernel but that is in progress.. Jul 05 17:25:10 Are there technical reasons why the GPS bits on MeeGo N900 are closed? Reasons related to nokia-secret-ip like the pulseaudio bits? Or does it just need some sort of redo in the way ofono n900 support is a redo of the old cell stack? Jul 05 17:25:57 DocScrutinizer: so I got opencv to compile on sbox for harmattan as well (with a few patches yes), now only to find a way to disable the aegis crap so I can test it when I get hold of it Jul 05 17:26:03 jonwil: i'd hope that was answered by qgil ages ago.. Jul 05 17:26:07 * timeless can't remember offhand Jul 05 17:26:12 I cant remember either Jul 05 17:26:18 i know nokia has too much ipr in that area Jul 05 17:26:38 I am guessing though its issues related to nokia secret IP related to making their GPS better than the other guys (including not wanting to let just anyone use their AGPS implementation and backend servers) Jul 05 17:26:40 i think the low level drivers might be licensed from someone Jul 05 17:26:58 IIRC the lowlevel stuff for GPS is done on the cell modem Jul 05 17:27:20 The cellmo just spits out location Jul 05 17:27:21 * timeless tried not to pay attn to that stuff Jul 05 17:27:23 Pretty much Jul 05 17:27:42 jonwil: well, we get stuff working first, under redistributable license, but location based stuff is a differentiation thing :/ Jul 05 17:27:56 true Jul 05 17:28:14 i wouldnt mind if someone properly reversed the communication Jul 05 17:28:21 but even that didnt happen on n8x0 Jul 05 17:28:34 n8x0 GPS is very different arch to n900 Jul 05 17:28:49 Stskeeps: Someone has Jul 05 17:28:59 Stskeeps: n8x0 GPS is _vastly_ different Jul 05 17:29:01 but even with that, agps info is needed Jul 05 17:29:12 Stskeeps: All the high level stuff is done in the CPU on the 8x0 Jul 05 17:29:20 Stskeeps: It's all done in the 'GPS' in the n900 Jul 05 17:29:23 i know.. Jul 05 17:29:24 :P Jul 05 17:29:28 Stskeeps: AGPS isn't actually needed Jul 05 17:29:33 It's nice, but not needed. Jul 05 17:29:40 very useful if you dont have patience :P Jul 05 17:31:05 i have a bluetooth GPS unit that gets a fix in <10s in almost every single case, even cold-boot across the globe.... so why is AGPS necessary? >_> Jul 05 17:31:18 cos the antenna sucks in nokia devices Jul 05 17:31:19 :P Jul 05 17:31:22 lol Jul 05 17:31:27 ridiculous T_T Jul 05 17:32:04 so they wouldn't NEED to have fancy proprietary agps code and servers.... if they just manufactured a phone with a decent GPS Antenna for once >_> Jul 05 17:32:06 btw, about the low level communication, I have a file pn_location_isi.h taken from a Nokia QT SDK which seems to be a correct match for the N900 Jul 05 17:32:52 so the info on the actual interface to the cellmo over isi/phonet IS documented Jul 05 17:32:52 actually it seems AGPS as of APE doesn't really work - at least sometimes Jul 05 17:33:26 APE? Jul 05 17:33:55 APlication proceesor Environment Jul 05 17:34:06 i.e. "linux" Jul 05 17:34:14 as opposed ti cmt Jul 05 17:34:18 to* Jul 05 17:35:04 wait, what? so that translates to "AGPS doesn't really work on linux"? Jul 05 17:35:09 rm_work: it is likely that your GPS device saves your last location so that it can speed up the syncing Jul 05 17:35:13 like, presently Jul 05 17:35:26 Choom: as i said, even cold-boot across the globe :P Jul 05 17:35:32 last time I checked a device with proper access to internet via WLAN (for SUPL) but without a SIM card to get GPS hints via GSM didn't acquire a fix Jul 05 17:35:43 rm_work: I question if that's possible. Jul 05 17:35:45 i'm aware it can get a hot-fix, and THAT takes <3s Jul 05 17:35:54 SpeedEvil: well, anyone i was with in Berlin saw it Jul 05 17:36:02 in any case I see no great obstacles in the way preventing someone (e.g. freesmartphone people) from doing usable GPS on the N900 Jul 05 17:36:06 rm_work: By cold boot, do you mean that has not been turned on in over 12 weeks? Jul 05 17:36:18 Or has no stored data at all? Jul 05 17:36:19 i mean last time it was turned on, it was in Texas, and now it's in Berlin Jul 05 17:36:29 Ah - that's a different case then. Jul 05 17:36:39 It has live almanac Jul 05 17:36:48 and probably ephimeredes. Jul 05 17:37:02 So you can plausibly get a position in on the order of 6 seconds. Jul 05 17:37:17 AFAIK it can't hot-fix outside of like.... a hundred miles or so Jul 05 17:37:25 ok Jul 05 17:37:28 interesting Jul 05 17:37:30 Even the supl/agps issue can be dealt with (IIRC google provides a supl server) Jul 05 17:37:32 rm_work: the alm and ephem are global Jul 05 17:37:39 it was also able to get an accurate fix inside an airplane Jul 05 17:37:45 that lead to hilarious speed readings Jul 05 17:37:55 The GPS satellites broadcast 'time' every 6 seconds. Jul 05 17:38:12 tracked my plane on the way to LAX for about 5 minutes Jul 05 17:38:20 after that you got your current alm/ephem Jul 05 17:38:21 left quite a quick trail :P Jul 05 17:38:27 if it's in storage Jul 05 17:38:28 You need to recieve at least one time signal. If you odn't have an almanac, or ephemerides, you need at least one 30s cycle of the signal. Jul 05 17:38:44 ok Jul 05 17:38:45 so then Jul 05 17:38:59 the n810 / n900 GPS still has no excuse for taking 5 minutes Jul 05 17:39:05 though the n900 isn't QUITE that bad Jul 05 17:39:16 SpeedEvil: I think FSO guys made it down to st like 14s without stored pickle? Jul 05 17:39:17 It's not quite that simple. Sometimes there is a good excuse. Jul 05 17:39:24 http://thenokiablog.com/2009/12/16/google-location-server-supl/ Jul 05 17:39:29 As the recievers need to be individually tuned per satellite Jul 05 17:39:35 seems like using the Google supl server may help Jul 05 17:39:46 erm Jul 05 17:39:47 so again Jul 05 17:40:10 what advantage would my BT GPS have, if it was turned off at the same time as an n810 GPS in Texas, and then turned on at the same time in Berlin? Jul 05 17:40:34 besides a useful antenna? :P Jul 05 17:40:42 rm_work: Better firmware, and possibly more correlators. Jul 05 17:40:58 rm_work: advantage is your BT mouse doesn't suck on GPS implementation ;-P Jul 05 17:41:01 wouldn't it have seen the same sattelites? :P Jul 05 17:41:16 rm_work: The resciever has to search through a three dimensional 'space' to find the points that represent the current satellite position. Jul 05 17:41:50 rm_work: Throwing enough hardware at it, one or two of these dimensions can be solved 'instantly' Jul 05 17:42:08 (within 20ms or so) Jul 05 17:42:15 those are the correlators Jul 05 17:42:15 anyhow, there is information that suggests that using the google supl server is better on the n900 Jul 05 17:42:20 so I will give it a go :) Jul 05 17:42:26 and see what happens Jul 05 17:43:14 jonwil: NB usually the "supl" the GPS is using gets delovered via GSM network Jul 05 17:43:27 if you got any SIM inserted Jul 05 17:43:36 well people said its better Jul 05 17:43:40 so it cant hurt to try it :P Jul 05 17:43:49 only a few carriers don't support it on their network Jul 05 17:43:50 my n900 is set to the nokia one... Jul 05 17:43:54 i will try changing it Jul 05 17:43:59 what is the google one? Jul 05 17:44:11 supl.google.com Jul 05 17:44:23 lol k Jul 05 17:44:33 fucking facebook Jul 05 17:44:46 you'll most likely get random results unless you understand *exactly* what you're doing Jul 05 17:44:47 right after I implemented something I found out I can't access it with the API Jul 05 17:44:51 MohammadAG: language :P Jul 05 17:44:52 fuck facebook Jul 05 17:44:54 in the face Jul 05 17:45:12 (book) Jul 05 17:45:26 hiemanshu, didn't know this was a family channel Jul 05 17:45:35 hiemanshu, hey, this isn't #meego. :P Jul 05 17:45:37 afaik there are no females either Jul 05 17:45:46 just guy talk all the way! Jul 05 17:45:51 yeah, Myrrti is gone i think :/ Jul 05 17:45:51 does it matter if there are females? Jul 05 17:45:53 to meego Jul 05 17:45:57 btw, http://gitorious.org/maemo-5-certificate-manager/ is nice to have Jul 05 17:46:05 nice to have that code to play with Jul 05 17:46:11 GeneralAntilles: did you check if you have access yet? Jul 05 17:46:15 Just now. Jul 05 17:46:16 and no. Jul 05 17:46:19 MohammadAG: follow the fucking freenode rules Jul 05 17:46:22 it even includes all the root certificates and stuff Jul 05 17:46:26 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=884296#post884296 (<---AGPS broken) Jul 05 17:46:32 I mean, females swear all the time Jul 05 17:46:34 lol Jul 05 17:46:40 since the ratio is like 1 to 1134 it makes sense to hold diversity precious and refrain from cursing Jul 05 17:46:53 MohammadAG: stop playing with their dolls then Jul 05 17:46:59 I never can install that certman Jul 05 17:47:22 should probably try rolling my own Jul 05 17:47:36 'Digia Plc is a Finland base usability house that provides this service for EUR890' <--- LOLWAT Jul 05 17:47:41 If I sync my data from N900 with syncevolution, where does it store the actual synced data? Jul 05 17:47:52 hiemanshu: hm? Jul 05 17:48:08 Stskeeps: do you run it? Jul 05 17:48:31 run what Jul 05 17:48:41 FYI, I can confirm that any certificates that would be used to access the nokia supl server are included as part of that maemosec package, i.e. there are NO certificates stored in the GPS code itself that I have seen :) Jul 05 17:48:42 Stskeeps: Digia Plc :P Jul 05 17:48:51 which is useful for the freesmartphone guys :P Jul 05 17:48:56 Stskeeps: 'Welcome to User Experience Evaluation Service! ' <--- launchpad thing Jul 05 17:49:04 hiemanshu: what about digia? Jul 05 17:49:19 hiemanshu: no Jul 05 17:49:25 * MohammadAG puts on grammar nazi hat and visits the N950 wiki page Jul 05 17:49:47 macmaN: 890 Euros to evaluate the UX Jul 05 17:50:05 i guess it depends Jul 05 17:50:11 hiemanshu: cheap Jul 05 17:50:21 Stskeeps: cheap? Jul 05 17:50:22 i would be more expensive Jul 05 17:50:38 depends on what exactly do they give you for that money Jul 05 17:50:50 if it's just a poster saying "ROX" or "SUX" Jul 05 17:50:58 i probably would pay $100 for that Jul 05 17:51:00 :P Jul 05 17:51:09 i work for a company that pays somewhere around $1,000,000 / year for licensing... Jul 05 17:51:22 macmaN: I'd give it to you and ask your opinion :P Jul 05 17:51:37 yeah but i expect one helluva designer poster Jul 05 17:51:45 art museum type shiznit Jul 05 17:51:46 890 Euro is kinda lolz Jul 05 17:52:06 8 hours of qualified work Jul 05 17:52:22 well 890 euros to me is a lot Jul 05 17:52:36 you would be surprised how expensive a lot of activities are in mobile linux Jul 05 17:52:38 hehe... ~200eur more and it's my monthly pay Jul 05 17:53:08 Stskeeps: maybe I should open a company that does that Jul 05 17:53:53 hiemanshu: that would be quite a welcome move Jul 05 17:54:05 competition is the only thing driving price down Jul 05 17:54:14 i might get my SUX poster for $50 Jul 05 17:54:38 anyone know if the Ageis stuff on the N9/N950 would get in the way of meego-ce on those devices? Jul 05 17:54:45 i.e. whatever the security crap is Jul 05 17:54:51 jonwil: ask DocScrutinizer :P Jul 05 17:55:07 ~aegis Jul 05 17:55:07 it has been said that aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 05 17:55:18 hiemanshu: :-P Jul 05 17:55:50 DocScrutinizer: anyways opencv compiles fine in sbox for harmattan Jul 05 17:55:57 well it needs a few patches Jul 05 17:56:11 jonwil: no Jul 05 17:56:30 Stskeeps: is the N950 bootloader closed? or did they leave it open? Jul 05 17:56:50 jonwil: actually meego-CE *has* problems with aegis, as they want to set up dualboot and that doesn't coexist with meegoHarm trusted mode Jul 05 17:57:06 hiemanshu: closed and developer mode Jul 05 17:57:52 dammit Jul 05 17:57:52 I.E. for now it seems you lose meegoHarm when installing meegoCE Jul 05 17:58:32 hiemanshu: specifics is a little hazy to me Jul 05 17:58:56 someone of Nokia is tackling it by publishing a bootloader that has Nokia signature and allows dual-boot - AIUI Jul 05 17:59:11 hiemanshu: go read up about MOSLO Jul 05 17:59:15 anyone got their launchpad account? (someone got approved on fmc) Jul 05 17:59:18 moslo right Jul 05 17:59:33 MohammadAG: I did Jul 05 17:59:36 At least this stuff is miles more open than either my previous Motorola motomagx phone OR pretty much any Android handset to date Jul 05 17:59:48 hiemanshu, I know you did :p Jul 05 18:00:14 MohammadAG: timoph and lardman|gone did too Jul 05 18:00:18 Stskeeps: Mo'Slo Computer Slowdown Software ? Jul 05 18:00:42 hiemanshu: no, meego os loader or smth Jul 05 18:01:06 well, quoting incredible Mr SpeedEvil Stirling: Aegis is like a nuklear bomber deployed to keep the kids off the lawn Jul 05 18:01:51 * Corsac sighs Jul 05 18:02:03 and I'm not quite convince aegis will make it into N9 mass market meego Jul 05 18:02:15 DocScrutinizer: we already know it won't Jul 05 18:02:17 hope it doesn't Jul 05 18:02:36 DocScrutinizer, wow, that's quite an accurate description Jul 05 18:02:52 the meego security system is based on smack and ima/evm Jul 05 18:03:16 hmmh wait, this is crap, it's about N9, sorry :) Jul 05 18:03:36 Stskeeps: right, I was looking at it already :P Jul 05 18:03:38 but please, people, don't confuse security and drm Jul 05 18:03:48 drm is broken Jul 05 18:04:39 instead of whining about aegis or MSSF, whine about who has the keys Jul 05 18:05:17 And what sort of alarm system do they have. Jul 05 18:05:20 heh, would've been lulz if that 130MB source had the keys Jul 05 18:05:33 Corsac: what do you think? The hw manuf has the rootkey, nothing else makes sense Jul 05 18:06:29 why exactly is lulz > lol these days Jul 05 18:06:51 Corsac: as lonk as all systems have same rootkey cert, it's utterly useless to disclose and make publicly available this particular certkey Jul 05 18:07:04 s/onk/ong/ Jul 05 18:07:05 DocScrutinizer meant: Corsac: as long as all systems have same rootkey cert, it's utterly useless to disclose and make publicly available this particular certkey Jul 05 18:07:25 s/systems/devices/ Jul 05 18:07:25 DocScrutinizer meant: Corsac: as lonk as all devices have same rootkey cert, it's utterly useless to disclose and make publicly available this particular certkey Jul 05 18:08:01 DocScrutinizer: Now do both corrections together :) Jul 05 18:08:12 lol Jul 05 18:08:16 you *could* ship each OMAP with its very unique rootkey, and give user access to the key via some magic passphrase printed *on the box* Jul 05 18:08:40 fiferboy: she's too retarded to do that Jul 05 18:08:56 or have some kind of hardware switch to “take ownership” of the device Jul 05 18:09:07 indeed Jul 05 18:09:21 really hard to implement though Jul 05 18:09:28 btw stskeeps, if you guys DO end up being able to abstract out the pulseaudio blobs into static libraries with glue code, I would like to suggest you abstract the dependency between module-nokia-algorithms.so and libbmeipc. I suggest this for the benefit of people doing the various work to replace BME with code that talks more closely to the hardware. Jul 05 18:09:31 as you need a secure path to that Jul 05 18:09:51 And since that one reference is the only place in the closed-bins that references libbmeipc Jul 05 18:09:58 yeah, it's easier to move a jumper on a motherboard than on a smartphone Jul 05 18:10:02 wiki.meego.com/ARM/N950 Jul 05 18:10:16 jonwil: MUHAHAHA good one Jul 05 18:10:45 jonwil: i would like to replace it with libbme Jul 05 18:11:03 jonwil: that'S a particularly weird and bizarre one anyway Jul 05 18:11:17 yes replacing it with libbme would then allow the closed libbmeipc to be dropped completly Jul 05 18:11:37 It needs quite a fair bit of phantasy to imagine how audio and bme are related Jul 05 18:12:04 It is related when the algorithim logic needs to obtain the battery temprature info Jul 05 18:12:05 prolly temperature Jul 05 18:12:22 and I have a cornucopia of scary stories what it's meant for Jul 05 18:12:40 to blow up in your pocket, yours alone Jul 05 18:13:08 aaaah, so it's a special sort of alert sound? ;-P Jul 05 18:13:17 lithium cold fusion device! Jul 05 18:14:28 meh: a) reduce power to speakers when device is hot, for speakers' sake. b) reduce for power usage/temperature_of_bat's sake Jul 05 18:15:13 c) make audio play a warning sound when bat low, no matter what Jul 05 18:15:37 the function that calls libbmeipc is called voice_temperature_timer_cb Jul 05 18:15:55 ok, that's a clue :-) Jul 05 18:16:33 jonwil: I hope this line will show up on wiki.maemo.org/user:jonwil/ in a minute :-) Jul 05 18:17:58 obviously voice_temperature_timer_cb gets called on a pace set by timer, to read out temperature of battery Jul 05 18:19:03 well that function has a pa_log call for the string Xprot inactive, shutting down. Jul 05 18:19:05 now we can do whatever we like with that info in PA closed blob... text-to-speech read it to speakers every minute ;-P Jul 05 18:19:13 so its related to Xprot Jul 05 18:19:20 which AFAIK is the speaker protection Jul 05 18:19:23 or switch of ringtone when device is >38°C Jul 05 18:19:38 off* Jul 05 18:19:51 jonwil: xprot is speaker prot yep Jul 05 18:20:43 ultimatly it logs a message Ambient temperature updated Jul 05 18:20:50 so probably Nokia's research resulted in a ambient_temp vs joule/min curve where speakers fail Jul 05 18:21:01 so I am guessing that yes, the speaker protection requires the battery temp Jul 05 18:21:06 to protect the speakers Jul 05 18:21:09 and/or the device Jul 05 18:21:42 thermal management - the completely unknow black magic in embedded Jul 05 18:22:19 nobody seems have heard of it, nobody in FOSS seems to bother Jul 05 18:22:30 and well, usually you get away without it Jul 05 18:22:48 just sometimes ... BOOM :-P Jul 05 18:23:53 or *scortch* Jul 05 18:24:22 blue magic smoke escapes Jul 05 18:25:02 usually you expect EE to do a 105% job on avoiding such situations Jul 05 18:25:56 but hten you'd also expect EE to do same 105% job on protecting speakers on a hw level Jul 05 18:26:59 of course *if* Nokia would've failed on some of those mandatory properties of their hw, you bet they'd not disclose the sw posterior hotfixes they implement Jul 05 18:28:21 I hope for Nokia's sake this one is just for speaker protection, and not to avoid fatal battery overtemp Jul 05 18:29:12 as on battery overtemp there's nothing less to do than *immediate* *total* shutdown of system Jul 05 18:29:19 I am sure its only for speaker protection Jul 05 18:29:25 on a hw basis Jul 05 18:29:41 Any battery protection stuff would be in the closed source BME blob most likely Jul 05 18:30:11 probably, but I'd hope it's a circuit in GAIA Jul 05 18:31:27 however bme *should* tell dsme or mce or whomever it may concern to throttle cpu clock to 250 max Jul 05 18:31:43 *before* max cell temp is reached Jul 05 18:32:21 to avoid hard immediate shutdown Jul 05 18:33:09 as there were reports of guys frying their cell by OC and mmenc or what's it called, I gather bme fails on that task Jul 05 18:33:15 not surprised Jul 05 18:33:24 bme seems to fail on so much Jul 05 18:33:50 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/05/tablet_and_ereader_owndership_statistics/ Jul 05 18:36:40 and obviously it also fails on complete system shutdown on cell overtemp, as does GAIA - if that report was true Jul 05 18:37:24 owndership? Jul 05 18:40:35 it's el-reg... do you think they bother really? Jul 05 18:41:55 where to download all the SDKs while they are fresh and uncensored? :-) Jul 05 18:42:19 for? Jul 05 18:42:28 I guess I've seen a link on developer.meego.com? Jul 05 18:42:58 ruskie: ALL! I want them ALL ;-D Jul 05 18:46:56 Qt_SDK_Lin32_offline_v1_1_2_en.run 1.1GB downloading... Jul 05 18:47:31 anything else recommended? Jul 05 18:48:46 ETA 12..20h ;-P Jul 05 18:49:10 Hi, I having trouble running sudo gainroot. I got rootsh installed, it may be because of the reason that I got multiboot and booting on nr 2 that is power-kernel Jul 05 18:49:22 I'm afraid I'll never dl that stuff, unless I can resume Jul 05 18:49:50 sudo gainroot = root is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported. Jul 05 18:49:55 nucce2: unrelated Jul 05 18:50:05 DocScrutinizer, too? Jul 05 18:50:18 nope Jul 05 18:50:31 what's your current user? ( id ) Jul 05 18:50:41 whoami = root Jul 05 18:50:46 :-P Jul 05 18:51:04 well I see the irony but I cant do anything. Jul 05 18:51:06 root can't tun sudo gainroot Jul 05 18:51:17 run* Jul 05 18:51:44 hmm Jul 05 18:51:48 and honestly it seems a bit pointless, no? ;-) Jul 05 18:51:51 Ok, that may be true.. ;) Jul 05 18:52:14 Yea, I cant disagree with you there.. bah, then its the problem that kernel-config command doesnt work Jul 05 18:52:57 try >> su - user Jul 05 18:53:11 then try again whatever it was that failed for you Jul 05 18:53:18 ok Jul 05 18:53:50 I cant even find the kernel-config command Jul 05 18:57:53 might indicate it's one of the poorly configured apps that don't have a symlink from /usr/bin/foo to /opt/foopkg/bin/foo Jul 05 18:58:34 you can tell from .desktop file exec line having a full pathname to /opt/*/*/* Jul 05 18:59:07 some funny people even claimed that'd be the "right way" Jul 05 18:59:34 I got a different notion on that Jul 05 19:01:47 launchpad account reviewed ... can connect to launchpad now :) Jul 05 19:01:52 still no device Jul 05 19:01:54 ;) Jul 05 19:01:58 but in progress Jul 05 19:02:37 found what the problem was Jul 05 19:02:48 thanks DocScrutinizer anyway.. ;( Jul 05 19:02:49 ;) Jul 05 19:04:06 Strange: Qemu button was enabled, but target does not match. Jul 05 19:04:06 <<< someone have idea what this mean ? QtCreator QEmu didn't launch Jul 05 19:04:39 khertan: did you get an email? Jul 05 19:04:42 MohammadAG: one more ^ Jul 05 19:05:02 nucce2: what was it? Jul 05 19:05:29 hiemanshu, no email Jul 05 19:05:47 hiemanshu, just connect to see :) Jul 05 19:06:08 MohammadAG: + 2 more from the forum Jul 05 19:06:12 hiemanshu, logout and login was require Jul 05 19:06:13 khertan: awesome, we just have to wait Jul 05 19:06:16 yup Jul 05 19:06:18 hiemanshu, yep Jul 05 19:06:35 DocScrutinizer: so a lot more in the same boat as ours :) Jul 05 19:06:50 hiemanshu, nothing here :p Jul 05 19:07:09 MohammadAG: try logging out and back in Jul 05 19:08:00 doesn't matter, same Jul 05 19:08:22 MohammadAG: you are in the second batch, you'll have to wait till everyone else is done :P Jul 05 19:08:29 from the first batch Jul 05 19:09:17 hiemanshu, more like everyone who sent in the ID before me Jul 05 19:09:24 or actually applied Jul 05 19:09:27 yup Jul 05 19:09:46 handwaving Jul 05 19:09:51 MohammadAG, indeed doesn't matter ... can't command device for the moment :) Jul 05 19:10:02 w8 and see :) Jul 05 19:10:10 the guy at Nokia droped the stack op printouts and collected the papers in random order Jul 05 19:10:53 DocScrutinizer, hum ... this explain why it slow for just validating 250 account ... print all email Jul 05 19:10:58 rewrite number Jul 05 19:10:58 it's a HUGE stack of printouts ;-P Jul 05 19:11:05 made 3 copy for administration Jul 05 19:11:32 enter manually the id in an email for other guys Jul 05 19:12:20 other guys print the email and give them to a poor new guy which enter id manually in the system Jul 05 19:12:27 khertan: we know some guys are not as swift and familiar on scripting as others ;-D Jul 05 19:12:46 DocScrutinizer: dont copy my conclusion :P Jul 05 19:13:06 :) Jul 05 19:13:34 now i just hope it ll not be delivered by tnt Jul 05 19:13:46 last tnt delivery take 5 months Jul 05 19:14:10 hell, if I had to script this with VBA and outlook, I'd probably be faster the manual way anyway X-P Jul 05 19:15:14 so better hope for manual processes over there at Nokia ;-) Jul 05 19:15:25 DocScrutinizer: all you need is some xdotool magic Jul 05 19:16:05 I'm wondering if I should ask someone to send it to me from IL or just wait for it Jul 05 19:17:13 * DocScrutinizer ponders, scratches head, mumbles xdotool and wonders some more, shudders and turns away Jul 05 19:18:35 MohammadAG: for now *nobody* got a 'regular' device yet. Once they get shipped, it will maybe take some days til it's your turn. Then some more days for shipping Jul 05 19:18:43 MohammadAG: ponder! Jul 05 19:19:27 I'll do the former then Jul 05 19:19:34 MohammadAG: this will be your F5 holiday in your memory Jul 05 19:19:43 I don't do F5s Jul 05 19:19:56 hiemanshu does push notifications for me :P Jul 05 19:20:06 hehe Jul 05 19:20:41 MohammadAG: hah Jul 05 19:20:47 DocScrutinizer: dont like xdotool? Jul 05 19:20:47 MohammadAG: honestly - enjoy your holiday, worry about N950 *later* Jul 05 19:21:02 xdoWHAT? Jul 05 19:21:18 ~dict xdotool Jul 05 19:21:21 could not find definition for xdotool Jul 05 19:21:27 same here Jul 05 19:21:31 ~botsnack Jul 05 19:21:31 aw, gee, DocScrutinizer Jul 05 19:22:01 DocScrutinizer: you can program to do kb and mouse input events at specifc positions on the screen Jul 05 19:22:09 +it Jul 05 19:22:37 aaah, I faintly remember that stuff from my win95 times Jul 05 19:23:33 never seemed to work flawlessly and a general botch Jul 05 19:24:24 yeah, probably that's how such things are done in windows world Jul 05 19:26:50 last real memories abut redmonf stuff is a royal pita with making machine actually shut off on windows shutdown for windowsNT back in 2000 when I did XMLMaker Jul 05 19:28:51 (XMLMaker = excel plugin http://www.textropur.de/sub/gsdc/GSDC_XMLMaker.htm) Jul 05 19:32:42 I think that's been enough of windows for the rest of my life Jul 05 19:32:55 esp enough of VB Jul 05 19:34:41 even back then I tried to pport XMLMaker to OpenOffice ;-P Jul 05 19:34:59 major fail XD Jul 05 19:36:42 DocScrutinizer: http://www.semicomplete.com/projects/xdotool/ Jul 05 19:36:47 its a linux thing :P Jul 05 19:37:19 oooh Jul 05 19:37:32 interesting. Thanks :-) Jul 05 19:38:02 I use it batch process my stuff on gimp :P Jul 05 19:38:05 +to Jul 05 19:40:44 http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/AMD-Hondo/?kc=rss Jul 05 19:40:49 due to (I think) accidentally overwriting all the kernel modules, my n900 doesn't boot (endlessly reboots). It's basically impossible for me to download a 150meg firmware image due to my internet connection. I can extract the kernel modules from the image on a remote server and download them seperately easily enough, any thoughts on how I can get the device going enough to copy the modules somehow? or am I just going to have to wait a week for the firmware i Jul 05 19:40:49 mage to download? Jul 05 19:41:37 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/05/anti_powerpoint_party/ Jul 05 19:47:15 hello everybody Jul 05 19:47:24 ico2, pretty much Jul 05 19:49:13 hmmmm Jul 05 19:49:23 hmm, it might be possible for him to use a rescue initrd and copy the modules back, or? Jul 05 19:49:24 is there a "deborphan" package available for maemo5? i've done some searching and haven't found anything yet. closest i could find was the debian package for armel arch. is that suitable to use with maemo5? Jul 05 19:49:34 anyone got the link to add ssh keys to gitorious? Jul 05 19:49:45 NIN101, yes, that's the hope Jul 05 19:49:52 I can't access it since git f'd up my account and my dashboard returns 500 Jul 05 19:50:42 NIN101, if I use flasher to load the standard kernel and an initramfs consisting of the modules, busybox and libc, I should be able to get something working perhaps? Jul 05 19:51:13 MohammadAG: https://gitorious.org/~USERNAME/keys Jul 05 19:51:29 although that does leave the problem of how to control the device. unless the kernel supports usb gadget serial port Jul 05 19:51:43 thanks frals Jul 05 19:51:44 ico2: probably Jul 05 19:51:49 I guess I can do that with init scripts, but it'll be a bit tricky to do blind Jul 05 19:51:58 you basically get a shell Jul 05 19:52:35 and then it _should_ be possible to mount the rootfs of maemo and copy the modules. Jul 05 19:53:00 NIN101, is there any good way to activate a shell? or usb serial gadget or fbcon or something Jul 05 19:53:40 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd Jul 05 19:55:43 NIN101, that should do the trick :) thanks :) Jul 05 19:56:02 !infobot Jul 05 19:56:07 yw Jul 05 20:00:33 is there a "deborphan" or "cruft" package available for mameo5? i have searched and not found anything yet. would a package from debian's archive for armel arch be suitable? Jul 05 20:03:44 don't all jump at once to answer my question! Jul 05 20:06:02 mtnman, debian's armel package might be suitable check the dependency version numbers against those in the maemo repos Jul 05 20:06:38 KFDM: thanks. would it require a recompile or would the binary be ok? Jul 05 20:07:42 mtnman, i THINK but don't quote me on this that it will just work if the dependencies match up Jul 05 20:08:14 KMFDM: cool, thanks! Jul 05 20:14:05 does the n9/950 support activesync/mfe? Jul 05 20:15:52 KFDM: lenny's deborphan depends on libc >=2.7-1 but maemo5 has 2.5.2-1eglibc27+0m5 Jul 05 20:16:16 oops...KDFDM ^^ Jul 05 20:20:59 anyone here used Dbuscron? Jul 05 20:21:18 ico2: NIN101: afail the meego rescue_initrd is pretty much uuseless as it comes without proper kbd driver, without ubifs, without ntfs for maemo rootfs, pretty much without *anything* you need to do anything reasonable Jul 05 20:22:23 hmm Jul 05 20:24:13 so while it's a nice tool in theory, in practice however I've not heard of anybody accomplishing anything with it Jul 05 20:25:26 last user here finished recovering from dbus config edit just yesterday, by installing a full meego to eMMC, as he didn't get the job done with initrd Jul 05 20:28:17 yes but he can not download meego because it would take a week or so as he said, therefor I suggested he should use the rescue initrd. I know it was fckd some time ago (no keyboard map etc.), but iirc I recently read that it kinda got added finally. But, just checked it now, nope :/ Jul 05 20:29:09 well, that has to be realy recently then, as jonwil failed on rescue-initrd last wee Jul 05 20:29:11 week Jul 05 20:29:26 "ntfs for maemo rootfs" <- lol? Jul 05 20:29:36 whatever Jul 05 20:29:37 DocScrutinizer yes, just a few days ago Jul 05 20:29:50 instead of bitching, send fucking patches Jul 05 20:29:51 :P Jul 05 20:30:05 who's bitching, except you? Jul 05 20:30:18 I'm stating facts Jul 05 20:30:19 you Jul 05 20:30:21 c'mon gentlemen Jul 05 20:31:01 while you love to bitch on me, it seems Jul 05 20:32:02 * javispedro notes his cloak has finally been downgraded to "contributor" Jul 05 20:33:03 ... ah, well, it had to happen Jul 05 20:33:18 OK, meme makers. Jul 05 20:33:25 fiferboy and I have had an excellent idea. Jul 05 20:33:38 * javispedro thinks Stskeeps is a bit sensitive to criticism Jul 05 20:33:45 A demotivated poster for the N950 Jul 05 20:33:45 GeneralAntilles, cool story bro Jul 05 20:33:53 good enough meme? :P Jul 05 20:33:55 MohammadAG, and then I found five dollars. Jul 05 20:34:08 GeneralAntilles: "n950: you are not going to have it"? Jul 05 20:34:09 For those of you who've seen Arrested Development. Jul 05 20:34:22 and are F5ing the Nokia Dev page. Jul 05 20:34:22 gimme gimme gimme! Jul 05 20:34:28 You see where it says "No programs." Jul 05 20:34:45 That reminds me immensely of the "No touching!" thing from Arrested Development. Jul 05 20:35:10 GeneralAntilles, how about a tshirt: "If you have a N950 and show it, I'll mug you" Jul 05 20:35:13 So, I need a screencap of one of the prison guards slapping the nightstick down on the table. Jul 05 20:35:57 http://www.stripedwall.com/gallery.php?dir=television/ArrDev Jul 05 20:35:59 Has the caps Jul 05 20:36:02 But Jul 05 20:37:53 stupid amazon, ship! ship! ship! Jul 05 20:38:08 * javispedro cannot really believe I am pressing F5 more on the amazon page than the ddp page.. Jul 05 20:39:14 javispedro, what did you order from amazon? Jul 05 20:39:43 mostly books =) Jul 05 20:39:47 ahhhh Jul 05 20:39:58 do you have a n950 on its way too? Jul 05 20:40:26 no launchpad account Jul 05 20:40:47 yet Jul 05 20:40:52 don't forget the "yet" Jul 05 20:41:06 hmmmmmm Jul 05 20:41:17 so i am curious about the n950 / n9 thing Jul 05 20:41:38 MohammadAG: optimistic, eh? Jul 05 20:41:43 assuming they have more n950s as is believed when do you think they will let ppl get them? Jul 05 20:41:51 javispedro, always am Jul 05 20:42:01 ignore the time I wasn't on the list :P Jul 05 20:42:07 javispedro, ha, me too. Jul 05 20:42:10 Contributors FTW! Jul 05 20:43:47 at least I can now go around the webos channels without feeling like an enemy spy ;) Jul 05 20:43:49 j/k Jul 05 20:44:12 you have a palm javis? Jul 05 20:44:18 or is the n9 going to be a dev-able device too? Jul 05 20:44:19 How is it? Jul 05 20:44:33 I just go an email with "Product Loan Agreement" to send back signed :) Jul 05 20:44:39 Of course mooniger Jul 05 20:44:46 hmmmmm ok Jul 05 20:45:04 so not getting a n950 isn't the end of the world then so to speak Jul 05 20:45:07 incredible, if I'd consider sending patches to every property $random somebody thinks $random software has and I know it doesn't... OhMy Jul 05 20:45:11 MySpaez: it's the most similar to maemo in hackability imho, but a step behind. Jul 05 20:45:51 just really wish there was an n9 with slide out landscape keyboard *sigh* Jul 05 20:46:09 "send fucking patches" pfff, I'm not even sure if that's a bug, a flaw, or a feature of rescue-initrd Jul 05 20:47:09 meego doesn't use the nand for anything, so missing nand support isn't surprising Jul 05 20:47:13 DocScrutinizer: you know the answer: noone that cared enough put work on it. Jul 05 20:47:45 It's so easy to put the uSD in your PC and fix whatever you broke :-) Jul 05 20:48:44 javispedro, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=wPP045pM Jul 05 20:49:07 anyway stskeeps isn't going to motivate anybody with this way to jump in to a consulting convo Jul 05 20:49:15 MohammadAG: I think I know many of those by now :) Jul 05 20:49:27 DocScrutinizer: have to agree there. Jul 05 20:49:31 javispedro, not all of them though :P Jul 05 20:51:04 fscking Meego netbook installer that overwrites bootloders, worse than windows. Jul 05 20:51:28 whatever... Jul 05 20:51:45 ico2: you'll probably have to download the COMBINED image Jul 05 20:51:50 and flash that Jul 05 20:51:50 * javispedro feels dejàvú Jul 05 20:52:12 what's ico2's problem? Jul 05 20:52:20 deleted *.ko Jul 05 20:52:22 * MohammadAG adds to javispedro's dejv Jul 05 20:52:27 which kernel? Jul 05 20:52:33 DocScrutinizer, yeah :( was hoping to avoid spending days downloading the file Jul 05 20:52:34 stock? Jul 05 20:52:42 DocScrutinizer, yep Jul 05 20:52:54 and you never had power kernel installed? Jul 05 20:53:09 hehehehe Jul 05 20:53:17 MohammadAG: you're brilliant Jul 05 20:53:29 MohammadAG, nope Jul 05 20:53:34 :/ Jul 05 20:53:35 cyal8r Jul 05 20:54:08 ico2, prefer downloading 150ish MBs or 400MBs without losing anything? Jul 05 20:54:42 would prefer not to lose anything, if possible Jul 05 20:55:45 got a microSD? if so what size? Jul 05 20:56:04 nope, don't have one Jul 05 20:57:08 I have a backup from a month or two ago, so it wouldn't be a tragedy if I lost the data. not ideal. What am I looking at losing if I flash the standard firmware image? Jul 05 20:58:24 apps and modifications on rootfs Jul 05 20:58:28 the rest should stay Jul 05 20:59:02 damn net died, back now Jul 05 20:59:10 basically nothing, just the restore will download all the apps again you had installed, so until that's accomplished as well, you'll have none of the apps that were installed before Jul 05 20:59:12 I have a backup from a month or two ago, so it wouldn't be a tragedy if I lost the data. not ideal. What am I looking at losing if I flash the standard firmware image? Jul 05 20:59:18 apps and modifications on rootfs Jul 05 20:59:20 the rest should stay Jul 05 20:59:25 ah Jul 05 20:59:29 that's fine then Jul 05 20:59:45 the download will take forever, but other than that it's ok Jul 05 20:59:52 I'll probably just do that then Jul 05 21:00:17 good luck and good bandwidth Jul 05 21:00:27 http://thousandsparrows.com/n950.jpg Jul 05 21:00:29 thanks Jul 05 21:00:44 dialup :( Jul 05 21:01:21 ironically, I was trying to fix mobilehotspot to make use of the phone's net when I broke it, lol Jul 05 21:01:45 anyway, I'll stop complaining and get to downloading that file Jul 05 21:01:59 thanks for all the help and advice guys :) Jul 05 21:02:14 ooh, so after you got the COMBINED image, your other apps get fast access to the internet then - good Jul 05 21:02:46 s/your/your download of/ Jul 05 21:02:46 DocScrutinizer meant: ooh, so after you got the COMBINED image, your download of other apps get fast access to the internet then - good Jul 05 21:03:02 ico2: yw Jul 05 21:03:30 yep :) (assuming I can manage to position the phone in the one corner of the house that gets a 3g signal for long enough ;)) Jul 05 21:03:50 right, i'm off now, cheers again all Jul 05 21:04:04 time to patch that initrd Jul 05 21:04:12 seems like many users need to use it Jul 05 21:09:08 wtf Jul 05 21:09:32 ? Jul 05 21:09:33 meego netbook thinks I have an ssd for some reason. Jul 05 21:09:45 * NIN101 wonders how the initrd deals with watchdogs Jul 05 21:09:54 it is letting you know it istime for an upgrade Jul 05 21:11:31 hi all Jul 05 21:11:52 is there any pdf reader for maemo which supports reflowing documents? Jul 05 21:29:10 DocScrutinizer, latest initrd has keymaps working Jul 05 21:35:04 how can i check which firmware version is currently installed on my n900? Jul 05 21:35:36 Settings -> About my device. Jul 05 21:35:37 settings - about product Jul 05 21:35:41 or that Jul 05 21:35:48 I really want a n900-updated-hardware Jul 05 21:36:02 MohammadAG: wow Jul 05 21:36:07 but there's not written whether it's PR1.3 or not Jul 05 21:36:22 DocScrutinizer51, options not working though for some reason Jul 05 21:36:23 Version: 10.2010.19-1 Jul 05 21:36:32 evening alls :) - random linux nooby question! :) - just installed linux (again) then dloaded the qt sdk.run file.... double clicking doesnt do anything - do i need to use terminal etc? Jul 05 21:36:38 options? Jul 05 21:36:46 vdv: that's pr 1.2 iirc. Jul 05 21:36:54 Noobmonk3y, chmod +x and ./filename here Jul 05 21:36:57 Noobmonk3y, terminal, "chmod +x qtsdk.run", "./qtsdk.run" Jul 05 21:37:03 DocScrutinizer, C/H/M/N etc Jul 05 21:37:07 they're all ignored Jul 05 21:37:10 ooh Jul 05 21:37:21 bahhh now i need to find terminal, wtf is up with the seriously crappy applications menu and no easily visible task menu? Jul 05 21:37:34 but the keymap works Jul 05 21:37:35 Alt-f2? Jul 05 21:37:50 Noobmonk3y, Ubuntu? Jul 05 21:37:51 lol all that does is display the shit menu! Jul 05 21:37:53 yeah :( Jul 05 21:38:11 i'd slike to slap it with a trout... might make it easier to use? :) Jul 05 21:38:11 MohammadAG: ubi support? Jul 05 21:38:12 maybe you're not qualified to use ubuntu Jul 05 21:38:25 Corsac, .... how does ubuntu want to get new users? :P lol Jul 05 21:38:56 maybe you're not the kind of user they want? Jul 05 21:39:20 DocScrutinizer51, can't check if options are ignored Jul 05 21:39:25 but the source references ubifs Jul 05 21:39:30 lol corsac Jul 05 21:39:40 I *hope* I'm not the kind of user buntkuh wants Jul 05 21:39:47 terminal is gnome-terminal Jul 05 21:39:52 ok, stupid, question if i minimize something in windows, i can see it on the taskbar.... it just vanishes on ubuntu Jul 05 21:40:03 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd This here has an ubifs.ko Jul 05 21:40:14 Noobmonk3y, don't use Unity Jul 05 21:40:18 ohhhhhhhhhh Jul 05 21:40:23 frals warned me about this crap! Jul 05 21:40:30 but i didnt see any option to turn it off :) Jul 05 21:40:34 log out Jul 05 21:40:38 click your username Jul 05 21:40:47 look at the bottom of the screen, session type or something Jul 05 21:40:54 pick ubuntu classic, log back in Jul 05 21:40:58 ooo ok, yay! will go try! :) :) Jul 05 21:41:06 NIN101, lacks some stuff to actually work Jul 05 21:41:11 yes. Jul 05 21:41:12 /ban Noobmonk3y Jul 05 21:41:12 :P Jul 05 21:41:27 if he didn't find that by himself, maybe he deserves unity Jul 05 21:43:27 ahhhh this is better! soooo soooo much better! Jul 05 21:43:36 thank you very very much MohammadAG :) :) Jul 05 21:43:44 right now i can actually get on with stuff! Jul 05 21:43:51 anyway being able to get digits and - and / and = on a cmdline is a good step forward for rescueinitrd Jul 05 21:45:28 now make mounting ubi0 possible and the thing starts to become a useful tool Jul 05 21:46:08 any recommendations on where, where not to install the qtsdk? Jul 05 21:46:15 ie not in home , or must be in home blah blah Jul 05 21:46:34 try /dev/shm/ Jul 05 21:46:48 run the script as user, not root Jul 05 21:46:52 ot anywhere where you got less than 3GB free Jul 05 21:46:54 Corsac, after your last comments, do i take you seriously or not? Jul 05 21:46:55 I ask myself why nobody created a working one yet in all the years. Jul 05 21:47:51 NIN101: initrd? Jul 05 21:47:56 yes Jul 05 21:49:03 meego guys don't need it ;-) Jul 05 21:50:21 DocScrutinizer51, 3GBs Jul 05 21:50:22 ? Jul 05 21:50:30 heh Jul 05 21:50:37 you sure about that? Jul 05 21:50:44 5.3G QtSDK Jul 05 21:52:39 now the meego kernel boots microsd through a magical way, it is build with CONFIG_CMDLINE="root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 bla bla bla". So, if I am understand this right, for NOLO mmcblk0* is the microsd, right? Jul 05 21:52:51 yes Jul 05 21:52:58 ok, thx Jul 05 21:53:05 naming is a bit stupid Jul 05 21:53:21 with an eMMC and uSD in, mmcblk0 is the uSD, 1 is the eMMC Jul 05 21:53:30 without a uSD, mmcblk0 is the eMMC Jul 05 21:54:45 is there a wallet style keyboard for n9? Jul 05 21:54:59 MySpaez: what dat iz? Jul 05 21:55:51 A leather or plastic case with fold-out keyboard Jul 05 21:56:04 They make em for tablets Jul 05 21:56:13 bluetooth? Jul 05 21:56:23 Ya Jul 05 22:05:43 ahh okey, you meant hw device Jul 05 22:05:52 i thought it mightve been a vkb Jul 05 22:43:13 MohammadAG: (3GB) obviously I'm not sure - download of 1.1GB finished some minutes ago Jul 05 22:45:13 MySpaez: the problem frequently is the BT coonection which you can'T keep esablished all the time or your battery will drain fairly fast Jul 05 22:47:46 im sad for the maemo Jul 05 22:48:23 wish i could have made the 770 popular like iphone Jul 05 22:48:30 i tried Jul 05 22:57:43 anyone here familiar w/ MGCP or H.248/Megaco ? Jul 05 23:13:10 * alterego held an N950 today Jul 05 23:13:13 woo! Jul 05 23:17:30 I was offered one too, but had to turn it down. Jul 05 23:17:36 * alterego is sad :) Jul 05 23:17:43 Why? Jul 05 23:17:52 Just offer your Community device to the next person in line. Jul 05 23:21:27 abill_uk. Jul 05 23:22:03 :) Jul 05 23:23:34 *COUGH* Jul 05 23:27:28 alterego: me me me me wants a n950 ;) Jul 05 23:29:50 * DocScrutinizer searches for the unicode page for musical notes Jul 05 23:31:26 * DocScrutinizer offers chanson, hooligan style, and child song melody for merlin1991 Jul 05 23:31:32 DocScrutinizer: U+1D100 ff Jul 05 23:32:10 good morning Jul 05 23:32:21 ~trout Termana Jul 05 23:32:21 * infobot slaps Termana around a bit with a large trout! Jul 05 23:33:10 𝄞𝄚 Jul 05 23:33:15 DocScrutinizer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT2GLdWrqLM just replace hulahoop with n950 ;) Jul 05 23:34:10 >> Leider ist dieses Video in Deutschland nicht verfügbar, da es Musik enthalten könnte, für die die GEMA die erforderlichen Musikrechte nicht eingeräumt hat. Das tut uns leid.<< Jul 05 23:34:18 ffs Jul 05 23:34:24 DocScrutinizer, what was that for? :p Jul 05 23:34:59 for highlighting me about a completely nonsensical "joerg" issue some 18h ago :-) Jul 05 23:35:27 also for CTCP-VERSIONing me Jul 05 23:35:33 seems you have memory like an elephant :) Jul 05 23:36:09 DocScrutinizer, lol, I saw that hiemanshu said something to you about it. No sense of humour it seems :p Jul 05 23:36:19 elephants bow down in awe Jul 05 23:38:20 cehteh: damn, Konversation fails on that one - unusual Jul 05 23:38:36 :P Jul 05 23:38:44 cehteh: probably not in my font pool Jul 05 23:41:08 Termana: my sense of humour for sure is weird, but actually the trout was a joke Jul 05 23:41:22 mwahaha, success. Jul 05 23:41:26 I know :p Jul 05 23:41:30 lcuk: there? Jul 05 23:41:41 javispedro: eh? Jul 05 23:42:15 DocScrutinizer: my multitouch stuff. Jul 05 23:42:21 \o/ Jul 05 23:42:25 congrats Jul 05 23:42:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj2Jeo4YUkk Jul 05 23:42:49 with #define MAXFINGERS 10 ? Jul 05 23:42:51 the boobies test! Jul 05 23:43:39 yes, it's now called SDL_MAXMOUSE, and it's 10 =) Jul 05 23:44:07 javispedro: now WTF is THIS? Jul 05 23:44:22 lcuk's optical input? Jul 05 23:44:33 no, way simpler. Jul 05 23:44:34 invar Jul 05 23:44:48 I'm just making standard c-ts MT available to sdl apps. Jul 05 23:45:26 DocScrutinizer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV7nceF0sio maybe gema isn't as evil on this one Jul 05 23:45:29 it damn looks like dunno a plain sheet of paper or .... (me is puzzled) Jul 05 23:45:58 DocScrutinizer: because it's just the library. Now it's waiting for someone to put the game on it ;) Jul 05 23:46:13 alterego, I hate you Jul 05 23:46:25 you could've sent it to me Jul 05 23:46:28 and I'd give my N950 to someone else Jul 05 23:46:41 MohammadAG: you're going to get one / got one? Jul 05 23:46:43 either way, the video was for lcuk ;) Jul 05 23:46:58 merlin1991, yes, but I'm leaving IL on Sunday Jul 05 23:47:07 aaaah spotted the "Lenovo" writing Jul 05 23:47:10 so I need someone to ship it to me Jul 05 23:47:30 DocScrutinizer: yes, testing on it while waiting for N950.. Jul 05 23:47:36 luckily I found the perfect iPhone user who's guaranteed not to take a Nokia Jul 05 23:47:46 cause while not the same driver both seem to use the same reporting style. Jul 05 23:47:57 javispedro: thought almost that's a plain sheet of white paper Jul 05 23:48:07 sssht ;P Jul 05 23:48:23 ok, ok, I'll fill more of the description. Jul 05 23:52:33 devel-su: su tool adapted to MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan platform security Jul 05 23:52:43 apparently that's the equivalent of gainroot Jul 05 23:53:16 been reading about it a bit, apparently it also does some tricks with aegis capabilities Jul 05 23:53:55 ~aegis Jul 05 23:53:55 aegis is, like, http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 05 23:54:30 * DocScrutinizer barks like one of Pavlov's dogs Jul 05 23:55:10 ~bark Jul 05 23:55:10 * infobot barks, like a rabid dog. Jul 05 23:56:17 merlin1991: yes, that one worked, alas that voice wouldn't get decoded by my audio processor even if it were plain German Jul 05 23:56:43 I have to say either that this XInput2 MT API looked good right until I realized that since it mostly just bypasses kernel data, well, coordinates are physical but normalized 0 ... 1 no matter what the resolution, your window size, or your window position is. Jul 05 23:57:05 which, obviously, sucks, unless your application is a fullscreen one on a single-window window manager (like the harmattan use case) Jul 05 23:57:24 # dpkg -i package_name.deb Jul 05 23:57:26 Aegis rejecting package_name.deb: package 'package_name' already installed from 'source_name' -- not replacing it from unknown origin Jul 05 23:57:29 ooh fun Jul 05 23:57:30 You mean you have to scale for your window size? Jul 05 23:57:37 makes a CSSU harder Jul 05 23:57:37 SpeedEvil: yep. Jul 05 23:57:41 Eww Jul 05 23:57:42 javispedro: MUHAHAHA Jul 05 23:58:04 SpeedEvil: even worse: trim Jul 05 23:58:24 oh Jul 05 23:58:26 :/ Jul 05 23:59:02 MohammadAG: hail Aegis Jul 05 23:59:34 DocScrutinizer, apparently you have to have an aegis file under debian/ which shows what your app needs to access Jul 05 23:59:40 e.g cellular modem, location etc Jul 05 23:59:43 I was thinking how Qt does the scaling when I realized that it doesn't need to. After all, meegotouch qt apps always run fullscreen... Jul 06 00:00:04 * DocScrutinizer bounces up and down the room like a rubber ball, laughing evilly and shouting "AEGIS" "AEGIS" Jul 06 00:00:22 MohammadAG: it's autogenerated from function calls if meegotouch app Jul 06 00:00:33 and I think they made something for qml Jul 06 00:00:38 who uses MTF? it's deprecated in 1.3 Jul 06 00:00:46 obviously, the rest of us are forced to learn the abomination. Jul 06 00:00:52 anyway, interesting(?) read http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_6cbe.html Jul 06 00:01:51 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders how much of an effort it'd be to NUKE AEGIS for good Jul 06 00:02:48 CSSU will flourish, we need replacements for all aegis-locked apps Jul 06 00:03:05 now, I at least think that this part of aegis is the good one Jul 06 00:03:35 this is the one that does app isolation and no "any app can delete all your contacts" Jul 06 00:03:43 Ithink aegis isn't handleable, like a can of trinitroglycerine Jul 06 00:04:13 The one thing I like about Aegis is that something like theme-customizer can't replace hildon-home without asking Jul 06 00:04:25 which caused us quite a lot of duplicate bug reports Jul 06 00:04:49 hah, only until it got a signature Jul 06 00:05:48 * MohammadAG considers pranking someone and sending them a "A Nokia N950 is waiting for you" email Jul 06 00:06:05 once it has a signed manifest, it will replace *you* without any asking Jul 06 00:06:38 and Aegis makes sure you won't come back Jul 06 00:06:59 and then it will hide your socks and buy iphones to your friends. Jul 06 00:07:17 quite possible Jul 06 00:07:35 so no santa this year? Jul 06 00:07:48 access to socks is a restricted resource controlled by aegis for sure ;-P Jul 06 00:07:49 OMG Jul 06 00:08:00 another n950 shiped.. Jul 06 00:08:03 bastard. Jul 06 00:08:16 WUT Jul 06 00:08:23 THIS TIME? Jul 06 00:08:34 "Today, 01:50 AM" Jul 06 00:08:38 that's post date&time Jul 06 00:08:57 the guy clearly was not hitting F5 in timely manner... Jul 06 00:09:16 wow, my prank worked worse than expected then Jul 06 00:09:20 "- While applying it said expected delivery 1 week Jul 06 00:09:20 - never got any confirmation or mail from launchpad " Jul 06 00:09:54 err.. linkie http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25061&postcount=440 Jul 06 00:10:28 hmmmmmmm :-S Jul 06 00:10:30 1 week expected delivery :S Jul 06 00:10:37 DHL is overnight Jul 06 00:10:42 So, expect it quickly when it ships. Jul 06 00:10:47 MohammadAG: LOL Jul 06 00:11:02 DocScrutinizer, problem is, this makes me reconsider Jul 06 00:11:07 I wonder how they're processing people. Jul 06 00:11:11 This seems ridiculously slow. Jul 06 00:11:19 when I asked qgil about my DDP N900... Jul 06 00:11:20 MohammadAG: send your prank to yourself! Jul 06 00:11:22 I mean, if they had gotten a few dozen out today, I could understand that. Jul 06 00:11:27 even DHL, if it doesn't ship by thursday morning, forget about having it this week. Jul 06 00:11:29 He replied on a saturday that he didn't send it Jul 06 00:11:36 I got it on wednesday Jul 06 00:12:13 Package was sent from HEL Jul 06 00:12:40 GeneralAntilles, do remember that some people don't post on forums Jul 06 00:12:49 I saw names on the wiki I never heard of Jul 06 00:12:57 True Jul 06 00:12:59 * merlin1991 is reading the security faq, seems like you can run shell scripts without restrictions Jul 06 00:13:05 But if you figure a random distribution. Jul 06 00:13:20 Then the likelihood is that we'd get more than one person saying it shipped. Jul 06 00:13:27 merlin1991, not the ./ way Jul 06 00:13:37 merlin1991: LOL, sure. Only the script has restrictions Jul 06 00:13:49 "sh " vs "./" Jul 06 00:13:58 well, andre_ got his Jul 06 00:14:10 so did X-Fade, we never heard of them anymore Jul 06 00:14:19 might be aegis preventing irggi from running Jul 06 00:14:38 :-P Jul 06 00:14:49 MohammadAG: don't open you n950 package, it's a biological weapon sent from microsoft to prevent spreading of open source ! Jul 06 00:15:09 merlin1991, I GOT DIS Jul 06 00:16:22 remember how I said days ago Jul 06 00:16:33 launchpad applications would be processed one by one, and in reverse arrival order? Jul 06 00:16:46 I bet they are Jul 06 00:16:46 javispedro, that's how it's happening? Jul 06 00:16:59 doubt it, first batch got their emails Jul 06 00:17:04 well, 5 of them Jul 06 00:17:05 pile up papers on a stack, then process from top-down Jul 06 00:17:14 except for the big four, see this "saturn" guy. Jul 06 00:17:32 I bet he's batch 6 Jul 06 00:17:56 seriously, this can be done quicker with a script Jul 06 00:18:03 the alphabetically last of batch 7 Jul 06 00:18:05 or with Qt Jul 06 00:18:20 I bet that a printer, tons of paper, a wooden table, and a scanner are involved in the process. Jul 06 00:18:20 Forum Nokia is still Forum Nokia Jul 06 00:18:24 whatever the name Jul 06 00:18:30 expose the process via an API Jul 06 00:18:48 make a QStringList with all IDs, HTTP POST Jul 06 00:18:55 and you're done in an hour max Jul 06 00:18:58 * DocScrutinizer hits mohammad Jul 06 00:19:17 watch your system die under the load of thousands of n950 owner wanna bes. Jul 06 00:19:45 MohammadAG: you're crazy, do you know how long it will take to get the API thru UX designer and lawyer department? Jul 06 00:20:10 API and UX designers? wtf Jul 06 00:20:50 you don't think anything happens without OK from UX designers? Jul 06 00:21:26 they might want to design a Apple-like Core* logo for your 3-line Web API. Jul 06 00:21:47 probably even Quim is considered part of the meego UX and they tell him what to eat Jul 06 00:22:21 did anyone ever point out that 90% of the people talking in here are close to insane? Jul 06 00:22:36 merlin1991, hush. Jul 06 00:22:36 ooh only 90 Jul 06 00:22:45 merlin1991, prerequisite to getting an N950 Jul 06 00:22:58 Termana: I knew I'm doing something wrong ;) Jul 06 00:22:59 tell me whom to kick for not matching the channel rules Jul 06 00:23:03 hey, 90% is the average for humanity. Jul 06 00:23:13 that must mean we're quite good. Jul 06 00:23:25 also, do we have 10 active persons atm, or is someone only 85% insane? :D Jul 06 00:24:25 I'm 745% insane Jul 06 00:24:38 I'm 7 times as insane as DocScrutinizer. Jul 06 00:24:40 so don't worry, I'll compensate Jul 06 00:24:49 somehow the MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan Developer Library makes me feel it's written for idiots: "All applications are automatically terminated when the device is shut down." Jul 06 00:24:58 wow, this actually explains a lot. Jul 06 00:25:08 ROTFL Jul 06 00:25:10 no if you shut down the devices the magic fairy will kepp some apps alive Jul 06 00:25:20 s/kepp/keep/ Jul 06 00:25:22 merlin1991 meant: no if you shut down the devices the magic fairy will keep some apps alive Jul 06 00:25:34 merlin1991: it depends on your definition of shut down. Jul 06 00:25:49 some devices (specially PDAs) didn't have a traditional sense shutdown mode, but rather only suspend. Jul 06 00:25:57 no, it depends of the def of "terminated" Jul 06 00:26:05 touché. Jul 06 00:26:24 I bet you guys laugh @ metajokes too ;) Jul 06 00:26:30 the whole statement makes sense with a lil "gracefully" Jul 06 00:26:38 either way, on a PalmOS book you could very well read that "app state is saved after turning off the handheld". Jul 06 00:27:25 though I actually wonder if that's what they meant to say Jul 06 00:27:48 maybe it's a unixism and they're talking about SIGTERMs. Jul 06 00:28:04 that's what I got first Jul 06 00:28:23 * DocScrutinizer can't hide he's thinking binary Jul 06 00:28:33 in which case it is also entirely correct and nice to know (if your app survives the X11 server being terminated first...) Jul 06 00:28:39 you got statistics to back up that 90% claim merlin1991? Jul 06 00:29:03 DocScrutinizer, put that thing away you dirty old man Jul 06 00:29:10 MohammadAG: don't you know the #1 rule about statistics? Jul 06 00:29:10 swinging about your thinking binary Jul 06 00:29:13 MohammadAG: he's just over-optimistic Jul 06 00:29:16 only trust the ones you faked yourself! Jul 06 00:29:16 let's review the possibilities javispedro Jul 06 00:29:29 if it's Qt, it segfaults Jul 06 00:29:36 MTF is based on Qt, refer to 1 Jul 06 00:29:45 QML uses Qt, in a way, refer to 1 Jul 06 00:29:59 Gtk apps segfault Jul 06 00:30:17 hah, my daemon survives Jul 06 00:30:32 Gtk? Jul 06 00:30:39 aegis kills DocScrutinizer's daemon. Jul 06 00:30:42 I thought there is no such thing in a Qt Ecosystem Jul 06 00:30:44 DocScrutinizer, invoker probably calls the daemon, invoker segfaults Jul 06 00:30:46 heh Jul 06 00:30:53 merlin1991, they need gconf Jul 06 00:30:55 but then a daemon clearly isn't an app Jul 06 00:30:57 gconf needs glib Jul 06 00:31:08 gtk can run on a glib-enabled system Jul 06 00:31:20 so platform api -> gtk -> profit? Jul 06 00:31:24 DocScrutinizer, only when applying for an N950 Jul 06 00:31:33 touche Jul 06 00:32:04 DDP created a whole new meaning of "app" Jul 06 00:32:34 man, if this is the crew that is supposed to get apps.meego.com "filled" by the end of the year, we are sooooo doomed. Jul 06 00:32:39 stop using tlas, ddp as in what? Jul 06 00:33:03 javispedro, muhahahaha Jul 06 00:33:10 device distribution program? Jul 06 00:33:17 developer device program iirc Jul 06 00:33:29 at least in n900 times.. Jul 06 00:33:41 how good is the remote device access thingy for developing? Jul 06 00:33:55 * merlin1991 thinks about starting todo something despite no n950 Jul 06 00:35:02 javispedro: thanks, obviously time for some relax Jul 06 00:35:07 ing Jul 06 00:35:31 indeed. Jul 06 00:35:45 meh Jul 06 00:35:50 >>Device Distribution program<< Jul 06 00:35:56 I hate mutter. Jul 06 00:35:57 https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP Jul 06 00:36:18 ~lart javispedro Jul 06 00:36:18 * infobot burns javispedro to a crisp with a laser Jul 06 00:36:47 so, do I lose my DDP for failing to resolve a TLA? Jul 06 00:36:47 javispedro: you really made me doubt my own selfcheck functions Jul 06 00:38:37 merlin1991: last time I checked all 5 N950 were offline Jul 06 00:38:49 * DocScrutinizer blames MohammadAG Jul 06 00:38:54 so much for that idea :/ Jul 06 00:39:01 he probably erased CAL Jul 06 00:39:29 ;-P Jul 06 00:40:15 >>There are some N950s available in RDA now. It's good to keep in mind that N950, including its device software, is not a commercial device and the quality/feature set of N950 is of beta quality. There are also some technical limitations/issues with the RDA implementation for this device, such as that screen orientation change doesn't currently work (so display appears sideways the menu view), application installer uses currently pkgmgr Jul 06 00:40:17 instead of dpkg etc. We are currently looking into these. Eventually our intention is to replace this device with N9s.<< Jul 06 00:41:48 I guess I'll just have to rob someones n950 then Jul 06 00:42:17 * merlin1991 wonders if thp go / applied for one, that would be a close and possible target *insane laugh* Jul 06 00:42:40 hmm, right now in "reservations" all 5 are available Jul 06 00:42:44 merlin1991, he already has it Jul 06 00:44:40 I'm the outsider here, no n950 and no chance of one :D Jul 06 00:44:53 merlin1991: I got one of the 5 reserved for next 15min Jul 06 00:45:12 there are 4 free to grab right now Jul 06 00:45:34 I'll cancel my reservation Jul 06 00:45:45 so you got 5 to choose from Jul 06 00:45:49 :D Jul 06 00:46:29 I'm a lil confused right now, apps.meego.com would be the community obs / community packages and the nokia way would be ovi store? Jul 06 00:46:59 or is the community repo yet another source? Jul 06 00:48:20 nfc Jul 06 00:48:23 sorry Jul 06 00:48:30 grab your N950! Jul 06 00:48:39 http://apu.ndhub.net/devices Jul 06 00:50:31 DocScrutinizer, wtf is this? Jul 06 00:51:07 nevermind Jul 06 00:54:42 Nokia N950 Developer Kit programme is closed at this time Jul 06 00:54:43 Thank you for your interest in publishing apps for the Nokia N9 smartphone. We have received a tremendous response to our offer for the Nokia N950 developer kit, and can no longer accept any new requests. Jul 06 00:54:51 .. muahaha Jul 06 00:54:59 cehteh: meh Jul 06 00:55:06 they are serious Jul 06 00:55:25 "You want it, We kill it!" Jul 06 00:55:50 by now they are probably still handling applications that want the free n8. Jul 06 00:55:55 when will the wp7 phone be released? Jul 06 00:56:10 i dont want to miss to see it fail :P Jul 06 00:56:59 and i hope that will be the last nail at the coffin for elop Jul 06 00:57:04 the day before the n9 is. Jul 06 00:57:13 good :) Jul 06 00:57:16 the sooner the better Jul 06 00:57:30 it will also be half the price of the n9. Jul 06 00:57:35 yes Jul 06 00:57:36 and double the core frequency. Jul 06 00:57:45 and double as much ram :) Jul 06 00:57:58 and you get 500 free SMS with it Jul 06 00:57:58 that I would never believe :) Jul 06 00:58:02 (ram) Jul 06 00:58:05 haha Jul 06 00:58:14 and it will *still* fail Jul 06 00:58:52 is there any active community around it? or users worshipping wp7? ... or anyone educated interested in it? Jul 06 00:59:00 OMG feelings like with first M$windows on a box without GFX accel Jul 06 00:59:23 there may be some fools who think "Windows .. hey thats on my computer i want that" .. but that all Jul 06 00:59:49 this RDA N950 might be fast as hell, my desktop, on showing the screen, definitely isn't Jul 06 00:59:50 DocScrutinizer, bunch of junk Jul 06 01:00:06 reaction to a swipe takes like 60s Jul 06 01:00:43 I couldn't get into anything, it just kept going to the close or rearrange icons Jul 06 01:00:54 clicking on a reserved device just gives me a downloadable jnlp file Jul 06 01:00:55 haha Jul 06 01:00:59 In firefox Jul 06 01:01:03 anyone had it working? Jul 06 01:01:09 yeah, you need to start that Jul 06 01:01:15 how? Jul 06 01:01:22 SpeedEvil, java webstart Jul 06 01:01:22 execute, in FF Jul 06 01:01:31 execute in ff? Jul 06 01:01:49 FF asked me "download" or "open (with)" Jul 06 01:02:00 I clicked "open" Jul 06 01:02:05 * javispedro calls it a day -- gnite! Jul 06 01:02:09 open with what though? Jul 06 01:02:15 javispedro: gnite Jul 06 01:02:28 whatever that's been that FF suggested Jul 06 01:02:40 DocScrutinizer: Are you on windows? Jul 06 01:02:45 nope Jul 06 01:02:52 hmm Jul 06 01:04:25 ah - javaws Jul 06 01:06:44 alarm (clock) timepicker is actually the way it should be, no slotmachine \o/ Jul 06 01:08:06 DocScrutinizer: yea, responsetime to swipes is extreme Jul 06 01:08:24 also for some reason swipes desided to stop working for me oO Jul 06 01:09:15 unbearable, basically Jul 06 01:09:41 MohammadAG: was it same lame crook for you? Jul 06 01:12:09 On the dev thingy - how do you rotate it to landscape? Jul 06 01:13:23 And how do I get to a shell? Jul 06 01:13:48 rotate? not at all? see initial notice Jul 06 01:13:54 dunno Jul 06 01:13:56 ah - I misread that Jul 06 01:14:09 I didn't read it at all Jul 06 01:14:30 just grasped something about orientation Jul 06 01:14:39 "not yet working" blabla Jul 06 01:15:37 "Camera not responding! Close application?" Jul 06 01:15:40 MEH Jul 06 01:17:33 a nifty idea, this RDA. But either my equipment isn't appropriate, or there's something so lame with the device and RDA rack that you can't use it Jul 06 01:18:54 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders how to reboot the remote N950 Jul 06 01:19:01 never got slide to work at all Jul 06 01:19:05 swipe Jul 06 01:19:11 there's been some app running from the guy before me Jul 06 01:19:22 click the 'hide app' button Jul 06 01:19:26 on the lkeyboard Jul 06 01:19:45 SpeedEvil: you need to click close to the border, but inside where cursor still is a hand Jul 06 01:20:22 DocScrutinizer, what crook? Jul 06 01:20:29 RDA Jul 06 01:20:44 feels like molasses Jul 06 01:21:30 starting up camera took like 60s Jul 06 01:21:35 maybe more Jul 06 01:21:48 a swipe the same Jul 06 01:22:58 selecting another alarm sound in clock takes 10s to switch the blue highlicght form clock1 to clock3 Jul 06 01:24:16 it feels like "yeah, this *could* actually work" Jul 06 01:25:23 maybe 1.8GHz are too slow for java Jul 06 01:26:04 (no idea about CPU load as I had to run it fullscreen to show the whole thing) Jul 06 01:27:29 but then to make it useable I'd need a 20GHz CPU ;-P Jul 06 01:28:58 Interesting - everything on /home is mounted on 'aegisfs' Jul 06 01:29:12 Got shell - some of the devices have 'terminal' on Jul 06 01:29:19 but I can't ping or ssh out Jul 06 01:30:34 hey you got ...9016236? Jul 06 01:30:57 How do I tell the number? Jul 06 01:31:17 no idea how to tell from inside Jul 06 01:31:25 osso-systeminfo? Jul 06 01:31:30 yes Jul 06 01:31:35 to that number Jul 06 01:31:47 I get the ser# from "reservations" Jul 06 01:32:16 not exactly crowded Jul 06 01:32:37 I cheated, and rotated my physical screen. Jul 06 01:32:48 I think I'll like the real hw better Jul 06 01:33:23 SpeedEvil: there's a rotate menu item in the window's menues Jul 06 01:33:29 I gather it's dead Jul 06 01:34:31 SpeedEvil: are the characters in shell aslo at a rate of 1 per 10s? Jul 06 01:35:20 SpeedEvil: and where you found the xterm? an icon on applauncher screen? Jul 06 01:35:35 'terminal' right at the top Jul 06 01:35:42 mhm Jul 06 01:36:00 I'm not eager to start another session right now Jul 06 01:36:25 was way too tiring Jul 06 01:36:56 Trying to work out if I can punch a ssh out to my net with socks proxying, then ssh back in Jul 06 01:37:03 so I have sane terminal and stuff Jul 06 01:37:15 basically I spent 12 of my 15min with finding out how long to wait for mouse actions to take effect Jul 06 01:40:12 and I tried all "quality" settings for display, from 6 down to 1, no difference Jul 06 01:40:39 except it gets B&W for <=3 Jul 06 01:52:06 Oh - it has tv out Jul 06 01:52:46 \o/ Jul 06 01:52:57 settings -> accessories Jul 06 01:53:21 * DocScrutinizer muses about serial numbers, which best are read RTL, and just one is completely another batch Jul 06 01:53:23 I don't understand how browsing works. Jul 06 01:53:38 wget can't get dns resolution, and no proxy is configured Jul 06 01:55:11 4 of the 5 are like 510, 220, 610, 410 Jul 06 01:56:33 SpeedEvil: probably you're not "online" Jul 06 01:57:28 I know - browser can get to the web though Jul 06 01:57:38 o.O Jul 06 01:57:48 And no proxy set Jul 06 01:58:16 ifconfig? Jul 06 01:58:31 route? Jul 06 01:58:45 Oops - I may have broken it. Jul 06 01:58:53 LOL Jul 06 01:58:53 It's not resolving anymore Jul 06 01:59:34 ~xyawn Jul 06 01:59:35 extra, extra, read all about it, xyawn is big coffee Jul 06 01:59:43 ~cheers Jul 06 01:59:43 happy christmahanakwanzakuh! Jul 06 02:04:38 graaarrrrr Jul 06 02:04:41 Ok. Jul 06 02:04:43 I want my N950 Jul 06 02:04:57 When you haven't turned the internet off, you can ssh out. Jul 06 02:05:02 Doh. Jul 06 02:06:00 And good luck to the person that gets that net tunneling into my system as I've removed the port forward. ;) Jul 06 02:06:38 neNeed to setup a user I truly don't care about, for obvious treaons Jul 06 02:08:35 Then it should be easy to get back in over the ssh connection, and deal with it with a sane terminal. Jul 06 02:08:58 I think MohammadAG did that Jul 06 02:09:42 yeah - I got to the point where it showed me my ssh fingerprint - and at that point - it's just tediosity to get it working Jul 06 02:09:52 I gather you're not considering this browser&java based remote thing a sane shell access Jul 06 02:09:58 No. Jul 06 02:10:05 No scrollback, can't copy+paste, ... Jul 06 02:10:57 did what? Jul 06 02:11:03 I regularly get headache with ssh portforwards Jul 06 02:11:21 reverse ssh? Jul 06 02:11:24 MohammadAG: ssh'd into a rdp device Jul 06 02:11:26 MohammadAG: log in to N950 via ssh Jul 06 02:11:36 you need a server Jul 06 02:11:37 I was just going to setup a socks proxy locally and go through that Jul 06 02:11:52 hi everyone, i am trying to gain battery information. Jul 06 02:11:57 is there anyone can help me? Jul 06 02:12:01 either one on your PC, or a remote server Jul 06 02:12:01 ? Jul 06 02:12:15 i don't know how to write a C code to get battery information. Jul 06 02:12:17 what do you mean by 'a server' ? Jul 06 02:12:22 need some simple example for help Jul 06 02:12:32 holmesII: which battery information? Jul 06 02:12:32 openssh-server Jul 06 02:12:41 which can be accessed from an external device Jul 06 02:12:41 like charge level Jul 06 02:12:44 so basically Jul 06 02:12:53 MohammadAG: you just mean a box into which you can ssh? Jul 06 02:12:55 ssh -R2222:localhost:22 user@server Jul 06 02:13:00 SpeedEvil, yes Jul 06 02:13:01 yeah - that Jul 06 02:13:14 then ssh localhost -p2222 Jul 06 02:13:19 like Current battery capacity (mAh) Jul 06 02:13:20 and to the dev device Jul 06 02:13:26 Oh. Jul 06 02:13:27 then on your PC, ssh -p 2222 root@localhost Jul 06 02:13:30 yes Jul 06 02:13:31 What's the password? Jul 06 02:13:35 rootme Jul 06 02:13:37 ah Jul 06 02:13:39 many thanks to who can help me!! Jul 06 02:13:59 holmesII: there's such info in HAL Jul 06 02:14:10 lshal|grep battery Jul 06 02:14:15 holmesII: hal gives you an indication. Jul 06 02:14:23 yes. but how can i get it with my C code? Jul 06 02:14:33 Work out how to call hal Jul 06 02:14:34 check what lshal does Jul 06 02:14:37 https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/status-area-applet-battery/blobs/master/src/status-area-applet-battery.c like this Jul 06 02:14:38 i am not familiar with HAL Jul 06 02:14:44 or that Jul 06 02:15:08 FYI, that's missing a libhal_ctx_init call, which I have locally but haven't committed it yet Jul 06 02:15:20 between lines 199 and 200 Jul 06 02:15:24 but it works Jul 06 02:15:27 MohammadAG: isn't that direct access to bq27200? Jul 06 02:15:41 DocScrutinizer, no Jul 06 02:15:45 ooh, ok Jul 06 02:15:50 I don't know bq2700 Jul 06 02:15:56 27200 even Jul 06 02:16:02 good Jul 06 02:16:09 but it'll never make it into the CSSU till I add sounds Jul 06 02:16:14 Hal is basically a lie. Jul 06 02:16:16 libcanberra isn't that friendly Jul 06 02:16:24 But it's the same lie that the device knows - so ... Jul 06 02:17:20 * DocScrutinizer burrps in libcanberra's general direction Jul 06 02:18:51 oh and it doesn't detect battery low/empty yet, I know how, just haven't implemented it Jul 06 02:19:29 MohammadAG: holmesII just wants charge, nothing more sophisticated :-) Jul 06 02:20:31 i just want to get the battery.reporting.current = 956 (0x3bc) (int) Jul 06 02:20:34 that's it. Jul 06 02:21:08 see the link MohammadAG posted Jul 06 02:21:54 hmmm, interesting comment from that ex-Nokia guy. He basically said "Opening MCE was hard because there was concern from management about possible valuable IP in there" Jul 06 02:22:18 l o l Jul 06 02:22:26 Nokia management needs to be downsized Jul 06 02:22:37 That's the only thing that'll save the company. Jul 06 02:23:07 * DocScrutinizer wonders about the amount of valuable IP in Nokia management Jul 06 02:23:50 holmesII: Jul 06 02:23:52 [2011-07-06 04:10:47] https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/status-area-applet-battery/blobs/master/src/status-area-applet-battery.c like this Jul 06 02:23:53 [2011-07-06 04:10:48] i am not familiar with HAL Jul 06 02:24:18 and please post your questions in channel, not in private query Jul 06 02:25:18 holmesII: if you lost your IRC client's backscroll, there's also a chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Jul 06 02:26:09 MANY THANKS TO YOU GUYS!!!! I just downloaded it. I will read it. If I can't understand, I will back to you. Again, Thank you you two! Jul 06 02:27:17 OMG!!!1111!!! Jul 06 02:27:21 :p Jul 06 02:27:30 Termana, you really deserve a troll of the day award Jul 06 02:27:48 jonwil: I suppose the 'right' way to determine that is to pass it through a lawyer to check for patentable stuff first. :/ Jul 06 02:27:53 MohammadAG, TROLOLOLOLO Jul 06 02:27:55 :p Jul 06 02:27:56 he got the star in hall of fame for that Jul 06 02:28:57 DocScrutinizer, trolls are usually stupid, this one is the complete opposite Jul 06 02:29:02 SpeedEvil: you bet it's exactly that Jul 06 02:29:34 MohammadAG: makes things worse ;-P Jul 06 02:30:21 DocScrutinizer, I mean, taking my idea of pranking someone with an N950 email and using it against me Jul 06 02:30:27 damn, that's just, gold Jul 06 02:32:14 lol Jul 06 02:32:20 There is one downside - it's a situation of the boy who cried wolf, if I say anything serious about the N950 DDP no one will believe a word I say :p Jul 06 02:33:00 well, the only thing that gave it away was that Nokia doesn't use tinyurls pointing to youtube Jul 06 02:33:12 Termana, what was the vid btw? Jul 06 02:33:13 when i make it, i got "Package hildon-1 was not found in the pkg-config search path" error Jul 06 02:33:15 hey, my n900 just staying making a faint high pitched hissing sound instead of vibrating... any ideas? Jul 06 02:33:30 and other packages . Jul 06 02:33:32 holmesII, you need some -dev packages Jul 06 02:33:41 MohammadAG, you didn't watch it? :p It was Rick Astley of course. Jul 06 02:33:42 libhildon-dev I think Jul 06 02:33:51 Termana, no, I didn't :P Jul 06 02:34:04 But rick rolling has improved, there's Nyan Cat now Jul 06 02:35:17 MohammadAG, next time I should a) use an actual publicised email (which I didn't see on the forum) b) use a shorting service that doesn't allow previews and c) use that Dimitri guy instead Jul 06 02:35:33 Termana, the email is correct Jul 06 02:35:40 i tried, i can't find it in my repository. Jul 06 02:35:51 cound't find package libhildon-dev Jul 06 02:35:58 you're building in scratchbox right? Jul 06 02:36:46 i don't know where i build it. i am running by SSH connection. Jul 06 02:37:05 now i am trying to install it in x terminal Jul 06 02:37:32 err Jul 06 02:37:43 the same result. Jul 06 02:37:44 you can't build it on the N900 Jul 06 02:37:59 ~maemosdk Jul 06 02:38:00 well, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation Jul 06 02:38:04 hmmmm. but i am using N900 with meamo Jul 06 02:38:05 see that Jul 06 02:38:34 anyway, gotta sleep Jul 06 02:38:49 if you run into anything with sdk installation I'm sure someone can help Jul 06 02:38:50 night Jul 06 02:39:31 ok. good night. see you tomorrow~~ Jul 06 02:39:46 for building native on target, there are few users that actually do that Jul 06 02:40:29 you for sure must have done quite some installing effort to get gcc to run on N900 at all Jul 06 02:41:27 i can run gcc now. Jul 06 02:41:28 it's however not the "usual" way to build binaries for maemo, nor is it well documented or supported Jul 06 02:41:32 and make Jul 06 02:41:54 however, i have a lot of stuffs that i don't understand. Jul 06 02:42:17 just got a N900 phone today. Jul 06 02:42:20 sure, but with gcc pkg alone your rootfs will probably fill up to the limit Jul 06 02:42:43 i installed it by build-essential Jul 06 02:42:50 gcc isn't really meant or made to get installed on maemo N900 directly Jul 06 02:43:16 dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_pattern_deactivate string:'PatternIncomingCall' <---this is in a thread that helped some people fix their vibration, why does it say the cmd isn't correct? Jul 06 02:43:27 all the 3 users that did that installed all the needed stuff to a chroot iirc Jul 06 02:43:30 incorrect dbus-send usage? Jul 06 02:43:56 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51280&page=2 Jul 06 02:44:53 ~ask Jul 06 02:44:53 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Jul 06 02:45:24 why does it say the cmd isn't correct? what is wrong with this question? Jul 06 02:46:29 http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Start_vibrating Jul 06 02:46:51 I'm thinking it isn't software though, since it doesn't do that short vibrate right when I turn it on anymore Jul 06 02:47:36 your command is req_vibrator_pattern_*de*activate Jul 06 02:49:15 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/notify.sh Jul 06 02:49:57 yeah, it just makes a high pitched sound Jul 06 02:50:05 same as when I turn it on Jul 06 02:50:08 fucking omg Jul 06 02:50:14 I've no money for a phone right now Jul 06 02:50:26 * DocScrutinizer should finally fix this, --print-reply is nonsense as is calling play-sound first Jul 06 02:51:00 internetishard: replacing the vibrator isn't that hard Jul 06 02:51:01 I need a phone that is more fixable, if I'm going to spend this much, then the hardware should be open enough to order parts for Jul 06 02:51:06 can I do it myself? Jul 06 02:51:14 I mean, where can such parts be bought Jul 06 02:51:18 internetishard: either your vibrator collected debris and got stuck (*very* likely), or the motor or driver chip are defect Jul 06 02:52:08 Got a schematic so I can find the vibrator? Jul 06 02:52:37 internetishard: vibrator in N900 is soldered and really hard to replace. Also there's no easily available spare part Jul 06 02:52:42 oh Jul 06 02:53:25 internetishard: it's right under the cam-key Jul 06 02:53:33 you can't miss it Jul 06 02:53:34 use eyes to find Jul 06 02:54:03 also - try banging the n900 while vibrator active Jul 06 02:54:11 gently Jul 06 02:54:38 actually rotating suddenly along the long axis Jul 06 02:56:08 well, the vibrator more located *between* power and cam button Jul 06 02:56:39 with the excenter mass close to cam button Jul 06 02:56:44 DocScrutinizer, so I should be able to see it without unscrewing anything? Jul 06 02:56:53 maybe I can get it going from here Jul 06 02:56:55 no, alas not Jul 06 02:57:12 lol, bang gently? Jul 06 02:57:17 yes Jul 06 02:57:19 how hard... tap? hit on table? Jul 06 02:57:22 rotate Jul 06 02:58:53 knock firmly with your fingertips Jul 06 02:59:26 Not on the screen Jul 06 02:59:34 indeed Jul 06 02:59:46 not sure what I did Jul 06 02:59:49 got it going again Jul 06 02:59:55 I'm curious about the point of failure Jul 06 02:59:57 see :-D **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 06 02:59:57 2011