**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 06 02:59:57 2011 Jul 06 03:00:00 You guys are great Jul 06 03:00:03 debris Jul 06 03:00:07 hmm Jul 06 03:00:11 I can't see it though Jul 06 03:00:23 on the back under the camera button is covered with plastic Jul 06 03:00:27 but maybe it can be taken off Jul 06 03:00:34 no Jul 06 03:00:36 you can't Jul 06 03:01:20 look there: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/ Jul 06 03:01:39 cool, thanks Jul 06 03:02:15 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_11.jpeg shows vibrator upper middle, the huge silver thing Jul 06 03:02:59 the excenter mass is on the left Jul 06 03:03:48 you actually need to disassemble the device to reach there Jul 06 03:04:41 as you can see it's underneath the PCB, you need to take out the board from the case Jul 06 03:04:50 to reach it Jul 06 03:05:09 I'd not recommend you do that, esp if it's working again Jul 06 03:08:27 OK, kids. Jul 06 03:08:32 We're all going to get processed tomorrow Jul 06 03:08:36 Get our N950s Thursday. Jul 06 03:08:37 Deal? Jul 06 03:09:04 meh Jul 06 03:09:22 are you the friggin santa, or what? Jul 06 03:09:58 btw here it's already "tomorrow" ;-) Jul 06 03:10:56 so ETA for next \o/ event: ~3h Jul 06 03:11:59 GeneralAntilles: I hope you are prepared for your disco firing in the mid of your night ;-) Jul 06 03:13:24 It doesn't fire when the house is in sleep mode. Jul 06 03:13:34 :-D Jul 06 03:13:59 root is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported. Jul 06 03:14:11 sometimes i got user is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported. Jul 06 03:14:12 you ARE root Jul 06 03:14:31 ok. i see. Jul 06 03:15:07 GeneralAntilles: did you build on target? Jul 06 03:15:11 i still have problem on mahammad's code. i don't know how to install the hildon package Jul 06 03:15:19 DocScrutinizer, build what? Jul 06 03:15:25 anything Jul 06 03:15:37 GeneralAntilles: see holmesII ^^^ Jul 06 03:15:53 Oh, Qt SDK here. Jul 06 03:15:58 So, I'm all bullshit. Jul 06 03:16:22 see me for what? :) Jul 06 03:16:23 hmm, *somebody* did it Jul 06 03:16:43 .................any help? Jul 06 03:16:49 i'm really newbi Jul 06 03:16:52 haha Jul 06 03:17:07 holmesII: yeah, learn to read IRC backscroll Jul 06 03:18:14 holmesII: I seriously suggest you try to build on PC in SDK Jul 06 03:18:35 [2011-07-06 04:34:09] ~maemosdk Jul 06 03:18:36 [2011-07-06 04:34:10] well, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation Jul 06 03:19:33 holmesII: it's absolutely nontrivial to set up a complete build environment on N900 Jul 06 03:19:55 your root filesystem isn't large enough for that Jul 06 03:20:18 df -h / Jul 06 03:21:33 i got aroud 35G space in tatol Jul 06 03:21:42 MohammadAG's battery-applet needs quite a few libraries, that won't fit on your root Jul 06 03:22:01 yes, then you need to either Jul 06 03:22:14 use a chroot, like easydebian or sth Jul 06 03:22:16 or Jul 06 03:22:20 ~optify Jul 06 03:22:25 err Jul 06 03:22:31 ~optification Jul 06 03:22:31 optification is, like, a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3 Jul 06 03:23:50 i just wonder if i can install those libriaries, then i don't have to build a PC environment. I just need to do a small program and may not need to do deep development. Jul 06 03:24:43 holmesII: told you this is NOT the recommended way to build binaries for maemo, and that there's really no support for that anywhere, and you need to do a lot of work and know your way around to get it working. Only very few users have done that before Jul 06 03:25:12 holmesII: I seriously suggest you try to build on PC in SDK Jul 06 03:25:24 holmesII: it's absolutely nontrivial to set up a complete build environment on N900 Jul 06 03:26:00 o. i see. thank you! i have one other question. if I build it on PC. the PC environment should have the libriaries, right? and how do i make a program and run in N900? Jul 06 03:26:22 you mean on N900 or on PC? Jul 06 03:26:37 you build on PC in a chroot called scratchbox, for ARMEL target Jul 06 03:26:57 you simply copy the resulting binary to N900 and run it there Jul 06 03:27:09 i see. thank you!! Jul 06 03:27:12 i will try Jul 06 03:27:56 the maemo SDK comes with virtually all the libraries you'll probably need Jul 06 03:28:06 (that's why it's ~5GB) Jul 06 03:29:14 hehe, all right. thank you!!! but BTW, is there any good website to let me know how to build the environment for scratchbox? Jul 06 03:29:25 i am afraid found some one wrong. Jul 06 03:29:39 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation Jul 06 03:30:34 thanks!! Jul 06 03:30:35 holmesII: please pay attention, we pointed you at this website 3 times now Jul 06 03:30:55 yes. i did. i just want to confirm it. Jul 06 03:31:06 i saw it few times. thank you very much! Jul 06 03:31:27 hi anyone want to trade their n8 for n900? Jul 06 03:32:03 i want something different Jul 06 03:32:05 you'll probably have questions when you got SB (scratchbox) installed and running. Come here and ask, every devel did Jul 06 03:32:08 :-) Jul 06 03:32:09 i am just thinking install it in my ubuntu system or in my windows system. Jul 06 03:32:25 ubuntu Jul 06 03:32:28 which one do you recommend? Jul 06 03:32:28 definitely Jul 06 03:32:34 i have ubuntu 10.04 Jul 06 03:32:42 is that all right? Jul 06 03:32:45 should work Jul 06 03:33:43 pauly: I bet you won't have to wait for more than 24h to complete that deal Jul 06 03:34:01 what u mean? Jul 06 03:34:03 all right. thank you! i have four systems. i think i got to reboot my pc and going to ubuntu. but i think i have go to bed now. I will talk to you tomorrow. Anyway, you are a very very nice person i meet in freenode. Jul 06 03:34:07 thank you so much! Jul 06 03:34:24 I mean there are a few users with a N8 they hate, who want a N900 urgently Jul 06 03:34:38 you have a good night. Jul 06 03:34:50 u know them lol i dont have an TMO account Jul 06 03:35:18 they are all here during the next 24h Jul 06 03:35:27 that'S why I say won't take long Jul 06 03:35:53 just repost your offer every 60 min Jul 06 03:41:09 anyone here got a few spare minutes and not in the US? Jul 06 03:41:29 need a quick app tester... Jul 06 03:41:37 with a linkedin account Jul 06 03:43:11 holmesII: ooh, don't use the graphic installer there, it usually gives you trouble. It seems the script based installation is easier Jul 06 03:43:44 ok. got it.:) im leaving now. Jul 06 03:43:52 see you tommorrow Jul 06 03:45:32 DocScrutinizer: have u used n8 Jul 06 03:45:32 ? Jul 06 03:46:38 DocScrutinizer: so one of them is getting their N950 shipped Jul 06 03:47:02 DocScrutinizer: i just want something different, i dont have time to customize maemo like everyone else mine is stock lol Jul 06 03:47:54 pauly: sorry, no Jul 06 03:48:44 DocScrutinizer: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25061&postcount=440 Jul 06 03:48:48 did you see trhat? Jul 06 03:49:36 yes Jul 06 03:50:29 DocScrutinizer: so the people from the first batch should have it for them in a day or two Jul 06 03:50:43 o.O Jul 06 03:51:40 looking at the accepted page, only a few have received that email Jul 06 03:52:02 http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community%20device%20program/Nokia Jul 06 03:52:02 DocScrutinizer: that guy was from batch four 0_0 Jul 06 03:52:17 exactly Jul 06 03:52:49 last in first out Jul 06 03:52:50 so hmm, well the ones with the launchpad activated should have it soon Jul 06 03:53:00 the way a stack of paper works Jul 06 03:53:18 yup Jul 06 03:53:50 well, I'm in batch 3 ;-P Jul 06 03:53:54 :( Jul 06 03:54:58 but I'm still sure the dude processing the requests dropped the pile of sheets and collected them in random order Jul 06 03:56:16 but why the fuck are they using sheets, haven't they heard of google docs or email or evernote or etherpad Jul 06 03:56:31 anyway I'm expecting quite a number of processed devices for today Jul 06 03:57:17 hiemanshu: given the likelihood of M$ products being used there, I'd rather *hope* for sheets Jul 06 03:57:39 DocScrutinizer: hah true :P Jul 06 03:59:57 Quim thinks even end of *next* week not all requests are processed Jul 06 04:00:26 he does Jul 06 04:00:27 ? Jul 06 04:00:38 which would make an average per day of <25 Jul 06 04:00:55 anyone want to trade me their n8 for my n900? Jul 06 04:02:00 hiemanshu: who were the guys who got a N8 for their warranty N900? Jul 06 04:02:09 DocScrutinizer: Jaffa was one Jul 06 04:02:18 yep, thought so Jul 06 04:02:28 DocScrutinizer: but he traded his for a E7 or something Jul 06 04:02:56 hmm, dunno if he did, or just planned to do Jul 06 04:03:12 pauly: E7? Jul 06 04:04:03 DocScrutinizer: i like 12mp on n8 but keyboard on e7 ughhh idk Jul 06 04:04:35 whatever, you'll find somebody interested in your swap deal, easily Jul 06 04:04:36 i take pics so i still want n8 Jul 06 04:04:55 * DocScrutinizer afk Jul 06 04:04:55 DocScrutinizer: you ever use symbian 3? Jul 06 04:04:57 o/ Jul 06 04:16:42 anyone know anything about product IDs? I know the N900 is RX-51 Jul 06 04:16:49 but I got a bunch of others I cant ID Jul 06 04:17:16 anyone want to trade me their n8 for my n900? Jul 06 04:17:28 anyone know what a SU-18, RX-44, RX-48, RM-680, RM-690, RM-696 or RM-716 is? Jul 06 04:17:37 SU-18 is 77p Jul 06 04:17:47 RX-44 is N810 Jul 06 04:17:56 RM-680 is N950 Jul 06 04:18:00 RX-34 is probably N800 Jul 06 04:18:16 aha, RX-48 is N810 wimax Jul 06 04:18:36 690 or 696 is N9 Jul 06 04:19:03 RX-71 was an unreleased devboard Jul 06 04:24:52 http://wiki.maemo.org/Codenames Jul 06 04:26:13 could use some update, I guess Jul 06 04:26:14 twitter sucks on maemo tweedsuit is decent though Jul 06 04:27:20 i hate using the twitter.com site Jul 06 04:27:20 jonwil: google is your friend as well, quite interesting what you get on a search for all those codenames Jul 06 04:54:01 Jaffa: pauly wants a N8 raher than his N900 Jul 06 05:02:18 anyone know if the maemo builder is down? Jul 06 05:15:15 has anyone found a way to use google+ mobile version on the n900. m.google.com/plus defaults to the full site with all the cpu clogger javascript. Jul 06 05:18:17 no, nobody knows the iPhone-specific URL so far Jul 06 05:18:43 bummer Jul 06 05:30:20 anybody know of any arm based full fledged pc diy type kit? Jul 06 05:30:31 maybe a beagleboard based kit? Jul 06 05:30:51 something that can run kubuntu? :-) Jul 06 05:31:24 you answered your own question Jul 06 05:32:32 http://trimslice.com/web/models Jul 06 05:32:40 was thinking of something like that Jul 06 05:33:01 that tegra looks like quite a beast but i am curious as to how well the video works Jul 06 05:33:13 tegra is reported to suck ballz Jul 06 05:34:00 really?? that sucks Jul 06 05:34:08 if you want something open with an interested community http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/home/ Jul 06 05:34:40 last time I looked at tegra2 I heard it has e.g. problems with decoding media Jul 06 05:34:49 hehehe Jul 06 05:35:11 Macer and SmartBook... Jul 06 05:36:58 yeah the only prob with always innovating... still no actual product for the touchbook v2 and I would guess smartbook as well Jul 06 05:36:59 dm8tbr: omg! dont ever mention alwaysinnovating again Jul 06 05:37:12 * dm8tbr shrugs Jul 06 05:37:15 hehe Jul 06 05:37:20 i preordered their touchbook a while back Jul 06 05:37:26 and? Jul 06 05:37:34 what a total piece of s*it Jul 06 05:37:42 v1 I take it? Jul 06 05:37:47 what was wrong with it? Jul 06 05:38:00 it tipped over.. the screen was non responsive Jul 06 05:38:21 the video was slow.. the keyboard connectivity would mess up Jul 06 05:38:28 etc etc Jul 06 05:38:44 it was garbage.. and i was so excited about it Jul 06 05:38:44 I'm gonna get touchbook v2 if it ever materializes Jul 06 05:38:53 dont preorder! Jul 06 05:38:55 else one of the other tablet/netbook type devices Jul 06 05:39:02 Macer, I haven't and won't Jul 06 05:39:07 until they have a physical product Jul 06 05:39:09 wait til everybody tells you it sucks as bad as v1 Jul 06 05:39:28 i do want to try out a tegra based system tho just to see Jul 06 05:39:29 wess v2 supposedly has capacitive... so touchscreen shouldn't be non-responsive... just crappy Jul 06 05:39:52 i am sure it is the lowest bidded broken capacitive they could get a hold of Jul 06 05:40:15 with dead pixels all over it from chinese slave laborers blood seeping into it suring production Jul 06 05:40:19 well just the fact that it is capacitive means it's crappy Jul 06 05:40:24 no matter what value Jul 06 05:40:34 during Jul 06 05:40:47 I did hear about the tipping Jul 06 05:40:58 the tipping was the worst part Jul 06 05:41:04 :-) Jul 06 05:41:07 ruskie: Avoid these guys like if you were avoiding the Pandora guys Jul 06 05:41:28 the stuff I like about it is... plugin in usb sticks to expand it Jul 06 05:41:28 if it went anywhere past 90 degrees it would tip Jul 06 05:41:43 it was just a let down. a total pos Jul 06 05:41:58 and ability to run multiple OSes easily Jul 06 05:42:13 a great idea poorly made Jul 06 05:42:18 pfft Jul 06 05:42:37 heh Jul 06 05:43:37 and the non responsive screen was the icing on the cake Jul 06 05:44:14 you had to dig your finger half way into it in order for it to do anything Jul 06 05:44:56 I want to get a tablet/netbook combo system... but I also don't want to be stuck with only the one system that is on it Jul 06 05:45:51 ruskie: fair enough Jul 06 05:46:36 anyone want to trade me their n8 for my n900? Jul 06 05:47:08 ruskie: i am sure most are locked Jul 06 05:47:13 yeah Jul 06 05:47:15 wish there was an n900 dock Jul 06 05:47:18 :-) Jul 06 05:47:36 maybe n9 dock?? Jul 06 05:47:54 heh (yeah right.. nokia? something good?) Jul 06 05:48:06 noone has n8 :( Jul 06 05:50:35 Macer, well always innovating has a bluetooth dock thingy... https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/keyboard.htm Jul 06 05:53:24 pauly: wait for Jaffa, he'll be around in a couple of hours or so Jul 06 05:53:36 lol! Jul 06 05:53:47 i am sure it is fail ruskie Jul 06 05:54:11 i am telling you what i know. you go ahead and get one and tell me i was wrong later Jul 06 05:54:15 hiemanshu:i thought he has e7? Jul 06 05:54:32 ;-) to each their own. maybe you will like it Jul 06 05:54:48 pauly: he was hoping to get it changed or something, so well you are besst off asking him Jul 06 05:56:16 lol okay im just too excited for symbian anna lol i just want something easier everyday use, and n8 seems like it Jul 06 06:02:29 symbian anna? Jul 06 06:03:48 i wonder what the trimslice runs for an os Jul 06 06:03:51 chrome os? Jul 06 06:04:21 macer: new symbian 3 version is anna Jul 06 06:04:53 oh Jul 06 06:04:58 http://trimslice.com/web/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/with-pen.png Jul 06 06:05:10 wp-cotent? fail Jul 06 06:17:33 your usb fixed pauly? Jul 06 06:17:50 bought a different n900 Jul 06 06:17:52 lol Jul 06 06:18:09 sicelo: u got an n8 Jul 06 06:18:11 how much did you spend for a new n900 Jul 06 06:18:22 or different n900 Jul 06 06:18:28 180 used Jul 06 06:18:35 USD? Jul 06 06:18:38 or eur Jul 06 06:18:44 i wanna trade it for n8 Jul 06 06:18:47 usd Jul 06 06:18:53 not bad at all Jul 06 06:19:33 do yous have an n8 that u wanna trade? Jul 06 06:20:26 no pauly. my n900 is 3 days old Jul 06 06:21:46 oh no i want n8 cause it seems easy to use im tired of having the coolest open source device and not using it the way i should cause i dont have the time Jul 06 06:22:14 Oh well... Jul 06 06:22:41 so the usb? Jul 06 06:23:41 sicelo that n900 i also broke screen on lol Jul 06 06:24:37 USB issues seem to vary with hardware revision; some older ones were 'weak', mine(gotten more recently) hasn't had any trouble, despite being dropped onto the cord several times Jul 06 06:24:37 so now i have two n900 that i wanna sell or trade Jul 06 06:25:25 You have one with broken screen and usb, pauly? Jul 06 06:25:32 so u bought another one & now u don't like it 0_0 Jul 06 06:25:41 ya lol Jul 06 06:25:47 i know Jul 06 06:26:00 pauly: i have been unable to break mine, strong as a rock Jul 06 06:26:26 i dont know if i want n8 n9 or sgs 2 or japenese docomo phone Jul 06 06:26:28 robbiethe1st: your latest BackupMenu is in the repos? Jul 06 06:26:36 In -devel, yes. Jul 06 06:27:16 As of yet there's no way for me to promote *any* version to -testing, because one of my dependancies is only in -devel. Jul 06 06:28:16 * Sicelo will get it later today Jul 06 06:28:19 robbiethe1st: i thought that dependancies were automatically brought in when you promote to -testing Jul 06 06:28:58 It will work if your dependancy has a valid version in -testing. Jul 06 06:29:03 Otherwise, it just gives an error. Jul 06 06:29:55 that makes sense cause the dependancy might not be perfected yet and there goes the whole point? Jul 06 06:31:10 bought my wife a droid x for $20 usd bad esn including 16gb sd card Jul 06 06:33:05 l remember symbian having bitorrent client ohh im so excited and the nokia beta labs apps :) Jul 06 06:35:06 i would hope s60 fifth edition apps work on symbian 3???? Jul 06 07:10:42 hmmm I wonder if it's worth waiting for some meego based arm tablet... Jul 06 07:12:18 ruskie: help on the meego -> nookcolor hackathon Jul 06 07:13:48 macmaN, I'd like something that comes out WITH it already on Jul 06 07:16:43 where can i look for release notes of the latest firmware for n900? Jul 06 07:18:22 Honestly, I don't know. I don't think I've ever seen any release notes on it Jul 06 07:19:06 lol thers a #symbian channel Jul 06 07:19:13 i want to reflash my n900, but not sure if it's worth it Jul 06 07:19:34 Back up your stuff, and yea, do so Jul 06 07:19:38 it fixes some glitches Jul 06 07:20:23 and i'm not sure whether "Version: 10.2010-19-1" installed now is not the latest one Jul 06 07:20:48 I am getting a new n900 as I wanted to get the last piece before its out Jul 06 07:20:57 So tell me can I run meego on it ? Jul 06 07:21:17 last flashed image was: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Jul 06 07:21:31 or even better maemo with Qt on it .. ( harmattan release ? ) Jul 06 07:21:55 Yea, there's newer out there Jul 06 07:22:12 ok, thanks Jul 06 07:22:14 It's at least version 20.2010.36, IIRC Jul 06 07:23:00 I'd say what version my device says, but it's been hacked so many times it just reports "" :P Jul 06 07:24:52 any1 want to trade my n900 for ur n8 Jul 06 07:26:37 pauly: You'd have to ask elsewhere. Noone with an N8 would be in here... Jul 06 07:26:41 >>A Nokia N950 is waiting for you<< Jul 06 07:26:42 (or atleast admit it Jul 06 07:27:29 DocScrutinizer: Just provide your bank account number and SSN to Mr Genuine Prince of Nigeria to recieve it! Jul 06 07:27:42 where would they be Jul 06 07:27:56 (or fill out a survey... *participation required) Jul 06 07:27:56 Doc: What else is that N950 saying to you? Jul 06 07:28:05 pff Jul 06 07:28:09 pauly: Uh... #symbian ? Jul 06 07:28:23 lmao n950 i seen transformers those 2 seconds was like wow Jul 06 07:28:45 it's a friggin HTML mail @.@ Jul 06 07:29:39 DocScrutinizer: what will you be doing with yours Jul 06 07:30:39 NSFW Jul 06 07:31:42 robbiethe1st: someone in here said someone would be interested so i will stay here Jul 06 07:31:52 DocScrutinizer: actually, went and found your entry on the accepted participants page Jul 06 07:32:16 flailingmonkey: Link? Jul 06 07:32:39 http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia then search for Joerg Jul 06 07:32:42 Name Nokia N950 Special device type Loan device Jul 06 07:32:44 Availability date 30.6.2011 Estimated Delivery Time Approximately one week Jul 06 07:32:45 Price 0,00 Additional information No picture available Jul 06 07:34:28 DocScrutinizer: wow Jul 06 07:34:30 DocScrutinizer: you got yours? Jul 06 07:35:37 yoh Jul 06 07:35:43 DocScrutinizer: dammit Jul 06 07:35:52 * hiemanshu shoots DocScrutinizer Jul 06 07:36:07 * hiemanshu crosses fingers and checks Jul 06 07:36:19 * DocScrutinizer knew it - N950 is dangerous to your health Jul 06 07:36:32 omg Jul 06 07:36:36 then give them to me Jul 06 07:36:41 DocScrutinizer: hah Jul 06 07:36:43 I'll take care of them Jul 06 07:36:57 * hiemanshu isnt at home and is too lazy to check email Jul 06 07:37:24 DocScrutinizer: nothing :'( Jul 06 07:37:33 DocScrutinizer: maybe there will be soemthing by the end of the day Jul 06 07:38:13 https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/OrderAgreement?product=Nokia+N950 Jul 06 07:38:37 DocScrutinizer: 'Product you requested does not exist' Jul 06 07:38:42 So, erm, the only people who show up on http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia are the ones accepted? Jul 06 07:38:42 DocScrutinizer: summary of your project goals: fill in the gaps where developers got lazy Jul 06 07:39:03 robbiethe1st: yrd Jul 06 07:39:05 yes* Jul 06 07:39:18 DocScrutinizer, your forgetting (mostly) no one else can read that Jul 06 07:39:22 yeah, they're working on getting the devices out now, past the selection phase Jul 06 07:39:30 Ok, so I don't have to be sad quite yet, I guess... Jul 06 07:39:35 nope, I'm aware of that Jul 06 07:39:48 Termana: did you get accepted into launchpad yet? Jul 06 07:39:55 hiemanshu, nope. Jul 06 07:39:56 DocScrutinizer: if you got it, I must not be too far Jul 06 07:40:19 I'll be out for most of the day, hope to have an email by the time I am home Jul 06 07:40:24 toldya I'm batch 3 Jul 06 07:40:29 I was in the first round - so they must be going backwards! Jul 06 07:40:31 :p Jul 06 07:40:38 Oh, wait. Tea, I'm declined. Oh well. Jul 06 07:40:41 Termana: I was in first round too Jul 06 07:41:01 DocScrutinizer: hah, fucking LIFO Jul 06 07:41:05 The wait is killing me Jul 06 07:41:14 I'll be dead before they get to me Jul 06 07:41:15 :p Jul 06 07:42:04 Termana: http://i.imgur.com/GNeQr.jpg Jul 06 07:42:11 >>No Copying or Distribution of the Product. You may not copy the Product, or export, sublicense, lease, lend, sell, assign or otherwise transfer the Product to any third party. << :-D Jul 06 07:42:19 hiemanshu, lol Jul 06 07:42:27 Termana: you know what would be worse, waiting for it to arrive :/ Jul 06 07:42:46 now you are hitting F5, next you'll be sitting at the door for over a week :P Jul 06 07:42:58 DocScrutinizer, have you built a cloning machine? Jul 06 07:43:10 I got offered an N950 last night Jul 06 07:43:14 Termana: yes, its called china Jul 06 07:43:19 alterego: huh? Jul 06 07:43:21 hiemanshu: the sad thing is that the kittens actually help Jul 06 07:43:33 flailingmonkey: yes they do :D Jul 06 07:43:38 hiemanshu, yeah, especially because I don't know how it's going to go down. Apparently they only deliver to your door, but all packages like that have always gone to my post office because I'm rural, so IDK Jul 06 07:43:53 hiemanshu: a Nokia guy was at an event I was at. Jul 06 07:43:54 Termana: whats the nearest DHL office? Jul 06 07:43:59 alterego: ah Jul 06 07:44:04 alterego: didja take it? Jul 06 07:44:12 alterego: i assume you declined on principle Jul 06 07:44:17 No, said I'm expecting one soon. Jul 06 07:44:20 *W*T*F* >>No Reverse Engineering. You may not (or allow others to) disable, disassemble, decompile or reverse engineer the Product or determine the source code of any code that is not delivered to You by Nokia in source code format. You may not (or allow others to) enable any logic or protocols in the Product that are disabled when delivered to You by Nokia. << Jul 06 07:44:29 of not having two :p Jul 06 07:44:37 So he didn't give it out to anyone in the end. Jul 06 07:44:47 alterego: sad Jul 06 07:44:49 DocScrutinizer: that's pretty damn funny, because that's basically why you were chosen to get one Jul 06 07:45:03 indeed Jul 06 07:45:07 alterego: where was the event Jul 06 07:45:11 DocScrutinizer: they say a lot, you dont follow everything :P Jul 06 07:45:13 alterego, did you goto the app-up? Jul 06 07:45:13 London Jul 06 07:45:18 lcuk: yeah Jul 06 07:45:21 cool Jul 06 07:45:24 was it good? Jul 06 07:45:39 what sort of event? wish they did that sort of thing in the US :p but I'm not holding my breath Jul 06 07:45:45 Oh well, not that I had much chance at a N950 anyway, but I got the standard "proposal declined" message. I guess I'm just not a good enough dev. Or something. :P I apparently can try to claim different... but I've only got one shot. Any ideas on anything I can do to get one more shot in while I've still got a chance? Jul 06 07:45:49 hiemanshu, 170kms away I think Jul 06 07:45:59 It was, there was some UK specific info that wasn't in the SF app up. Jul 06 07:46:05 And it was much more bried Jul 06 07:46:26 brief ... Jul 06 07:46:40 Free beer and pizza Jul 06 07:46:47 followed by a free bar. Jul 06 07:46:53 Termana: ah, so once you have your tracking number start poking DHL :P Jul 06 07:46:55 alterego, so what was the uk info? Jul 06 07:47:48 Just things like PC World / Dixons group shipping netbooks and laptops with appup client installed. Jul 06 07:47:50 Yay, I'm in Launchpad Jul 06 07:47:57 MohammadAG: :D Jul 06 07:48:02 MohammadAG: and DocScrutinizer got his N950 Jul 06 07:48:11 Seriously? Jul 06 07:48:15 yup Jul 06 07:48:15 Lame Jul 06 07:48:20 wtf Jul 06 07:48:24 alterego: nothing for you yet? Jul 06 07:48:26 same day shipping or what? Jul 06 07:48:28 Nope Jul 06 07:48:33 MohammadAG: next day Jul 06 07:48:34 MohammadAG: >>A Nokia N950 is waiting for you<< Jul 06 07:48:36 alterego, nothing in my email fyi Jul 06 07:48:45 alterego, so when did he order it? Jul 06 07:48:53 MohammadAG: about 10 mins back Jul 06 07:48:54 I know, I've already checked launchpad Jul 06 07:48:55 I mean Jul 06 07:48:57 hiemanshu, I got that, with a link to Rick Astley Jul 06 07:49:02 lol Jul 06 07:49:04 MohammadAG: I think he's just got the email. Jul 06 07:49:16 MohammadAG: yeah I meant that ^ Jul 06 07:49:19 MohammadAG, :p lol Jul 06 07:49:31 oh you're still awake? Jul 06 07:49:45 soory for long post, but that's the WTF of the day: Jul 06 07:49:50 No Public Statements. Nokia is delivering the Product to You in an effort to assist You in developing Your software for the Product. On the other hand, You acknowledge that the Product is in prototype stage and still in development by Nokia and thus, not in commercial quality. In view of the foregoing, You agree not to i) make public statements about the possible errors, deficiencies, faults of the Product or Your other findings about the Jul 06 07:49:52 incomplete nature of the Product; and/or ii) disclose the Feedback to third parties, without Nokia’s prior written permission. You agree not to break or attempt to break any sealed security boxes or other security mechanisms protecting the Product. You will ensure that Your employees, if any, have been advised of these obligations. The termination or expiry of this Agreement does not relieve You of the obligations imposed above. This Jul 06 07:49:53 MohammadAG, yes, guess who was my next trolling victim? j/k :p Jul 06 07:49:53 Section 9 overrules any previous NDA’s between You and Nokia regarding the Product, if any. Jul 06 07:49:59 MohammadAG, it's still the same day here Jul 06 07:50:07 5:16pm Jul 06 07:50:25 DocScrutinizer, I think we have to stfu about the NDA Jul 06 07:50:40 check that before the next paste Jul 06 07:50:56 anyway, what's the Nokia+N950 url again? Jul 06 07:51:14 MohammadAG: https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/OrderAgreement?product=Nokia+N950 Jul 06 07:51:58 MohammadAG: of course the NDA is NOT under NDA Jul 06 07:52:05 Morning Jul 06 07:52:11 khertan: morning Jul 06 07:52:14 DocScrutinizer, sure? Jul 06 07:52:18 YES Jul 06 07:52:22 khertan: get an email yet? Jul 06 07:52:35 You can't be under an NDA until you accept the NDA Jul 06 07:52:38 * MohammadAG chokes Jul 06 07:52:43 Product you requested does not exist Jul 06 07:52:46 hiemanshu, yep, but not from nokia :) Jul 06 07:52:58 MohammadAG: yes, stand in the line behind me Jul 06 07:53:05 He's perfectly within his right to paste info, until he accepts it :) Jul 06 07:53:22 didn't he already? Jul 06 07:53:22 DocScrutinizer: so its a conspiracy? :P Jul 06 07:53:26 by accepting launchpad account you sign an nda ;) Jul 06 07:53:32 so the nda is under nda :) Jul 06 07:53:47 yeah, but that is different :P Jul 06 07:53:54 Ah, fair point Jul 06 07:54:18 meh who cares, like they can hunt me down in India :P Jul 06 07:54:23 It is clearly saying we shall NOT blog, post, mail, etc etc about the products properties, as nobody can know if we might show shortcomings by doing that Jul 06 07:54:48 DocScrutinizer: you can about your app, but not your device Jul 06 07:55:01 lulz, conflict with expectation that all participants in meego open source dev program blog/post about their work Jul 06 07:55:11 hiemanshu: DocScrutinizer's work is the device Jul 06 07:55:21 About my app means about the device, as clearly there's no such app on the device yet. So... Jul 06 07:55:27 that's not what he stated in the application Jul 06 07:55:28 flailingmonkey: right, so he can talk about what he is doing, not how nokia fucked up Jul 06 07:55:35 hiemanshu: specifically making up for the platform deficiences :p Jul 06 07:55:49 well thats what quim said Jul 06 07:55:54 actually this none of this really applies at all Jul 06 07:55:54 Hey I build a better email client... OOOOPS Jul 06 07:56:03 because N950 is not a product Jul 06 07:56:17 You agree not to break or attempt to break any sealed security boxes or other security mechanisms protecting the Product. <-- hahahahaha what's the point of getting the device if you can't actually do all of that... Jul 06 07:56:18 need to add it to bugzilla: NOTAPRODUCT NOTAPRODUCT NOTAPRODUCT Jul 06 07:56:42 flailingmonkey, filing bugs != defeciencies Jul 06 07:57:20 MohammadAG: sure, but some bugs might be filed, and could be closed by such a status :p Jul 06 07:57:34 they probably wanted something like that for N900: NOTACONSUMERPRODUCT Jul 06 07:57:34 snifff qemu in qtcreator didn't want to run Jul 06 07:57:52 khertan: are you choosing the right target? Jul 06 07:58:16 harmattan ... seems Jul 06 07:58:19 there is only one Jul 06 07:58:27 I know what they meant, but what the NDA *says* is pretty much you mustn't talk about your own app even, as you inevitably would disclose about "missing properties" of "the product" by talking about the awesomeness your app will bring to N9(50) Jul 06 07:58:28 i ve try to create an harmattan project Jul 06 07:58:37 khertan: there should be two, one harmattan, and one meego 1.2 harmattan something Jul 06 07:58:54 Strange: Qemu button was enabled, but target does not match. <-- indeed ... seems a problem Jul 06 07:59:10 DocScrutinizer, by app they meant normal app Jul 06 07:59:13 hiemanshu, i ve 4 target Jul 06 07:59:24 me too, me too Jul 06 07:59:26 not one that relies on tinkering with hardware Jul 06 07:59:29 khertan: go to projects, select harmattan Jul 06 07:59:46 seems that meego harmattan run Jul 06 07:59:48 khertan: there should be a drop down with two options Jul 06 07:59:51 not harmattan only Jul 06 08:00:00 thx Jul 06 08:00:11 MohammadAG: where did I mention hardware in my concern? Jul 06 08:00:25 [2011-07-06 09:52:03] Hey I build a better email client... OOOOPS Jul 06 08:00:44 umm, what's wrong in that? Jul 06 08:00:59 MohammadAG, it says that there is a definiciancy in the inbuilt one Jul 06 08:01:06 MohammadAG: indirectly you mean 'Nokias clients sukz arse' Jul 06 08:01:08 deficiency* Jul 06 08:01:13 no, it says you built a better one Jul 06 08:01:33 I'd actually love to see a better client... Jul 06 08:01:39 on any platform Jul 06 08:01:44 Don't stretch the NDA Jul 06 08:01:47 telling you build an email client at all implies it's a better one than the stock one (if any). So automatically you disclose details about a "shortcoming" of "the Product" Jul 06 08:01:49 I just want someone to port kmail to it Jul 06 08:01:51 that's not how legal shit works Jul 06 08:01:57 hiemanshu, it's there Jul 06 08:02:05 hiemanshu, atleast for the n900 Jul 06 08:02:09 robbiethe1st: for harmattan? Jul 06 08:02:11 err Jul 06 08:02:14 ruskie: ^ Jul 06 08:02:20 :P Jul 06 08:02:21 hehe Jul 06 08:02:40 though considering how much crap it needs to just run... not even do anything... Jul 06 08:02:53 ruskie: yeah kdelibs and stuff Jul 06 08:02:58 not really bothered about that Jul 06 08:03:02 but all the daemons it needs to run Jul 06 08:03:05 MohammadAG: That's EXACTLY how legal shit works Jul 06 08:03:29 as you wish Jul 06 08:03:36 DocScrutinizer, you already agreed right? Jul 06 08:03:38 just telling Jul 06 08:03:52 of course NOT Jul 06 08:04:18 DocScrutinizer: so you are not going to agreee to it? Jul 06 08:04:19 I'm actually *reading* such an NDA Jul 06 08:04:52 hierI probably will, it's a nice excuse not to publish *any* word about what I'm doing ;-P Jul 06 08:05:00 lol Jul 06 08:05:07 Morning, all Jul 06 08:05:13 DocScrutinizer: hah ok Jul 06 08:05:15 morning Jaffa Jul 06 08:05:19 Jaffa: soon you will no longer be alone :P Jul 06 08:05:22 honestly, this needs clarification with Quim Jul 06 08:05:38 DocScrutinizer: read the N950 thread, he states it clrearly Jul 06 08:05:40 clearly* Jul 06 08:06:01 he states something that's clearly in conflict with the NDA Jul 06 08:06:32 DocScrutinizer: the NDA is most likely for the other devs (other than the meego DDP) Jul 06 08:06:39 well atleast thats what I can understand Jul 06 08:06:47 hierlooks like, yes Jul 06 08:06:48 DocScrutinizer, I wonder what the legal standpoint is if you make two agreements with conflicting provisions Jul 06 08:07:04 hiemanshu: ^^^ Jul 06 08:07:14 Termana: Later one wins; because meego.com isn't providing anything to you. Jul 06 08:07:28 Termana: you follow the one with the more money and power to sue your arse Jul 06 08:07:42 As Texrat points out, "share your experience" on meego.com isn't entirely conflicting with "these aren't review units, don't say anything negative2 Jul 06 08:07:42 DocScrutinizer: trying to find the post give me a few Jul 06 08:07:48 hiemanshu: it's clearly tailored towards commercial parties Jul 06 08:07:55 DocScrutinizer: yup Jul 06 08:08:45 hiemanshu: ^^^ didn't mean (see above) for an answer, just for my ETAB Jul 06 08:09:03 DocScrutinizer: yeah, I saw that Jul 06 08:09:44 Jaffa: the NDA is too strict and ill worded Jul 06 08:10:05 It's a BS NDA anyway Jul 06 08:10:06 DocScrutinizer: 'The point is to share your development experience, or anything related. These are not review devices for bloggers.' Jul 06 08:10:31 I don't care what the NDA says anyway, if it says I am signing my soul to them, I will, if they hurry it along and get it in front of me! :P Jul 06 08:11:05 Termana: hah Jul 06 08:11:08 so if I find a bug in develpment environment aka SDK that comes with the device, this also is covered by the NDA Jul 06 08:11:24 obviously not as it's public Jul 06 08:11:40 I already filed a bug against the SDK, no black choppers above my house Jul 06 08:11:44 but according to the strict meaning of NDA words it was Jul 06 08:11:57 MohammadAG: no replies too either Jul 06 08:12:10 hiemanshu, no word is good word! Jul 06 08:12:11 ish Jul 06 08:12:11 hiemanshu, I wasn't under any NDA Jul 06 08:12:44 DocScrutinizer's not saying they'll enforce it, just that its overreaching. basically so that if they don't like you, they're pretty sure to find some rule you agreed to and didn't follow Jul 06 08:12:45 anyway the NDA talks about the N950, not the SDK Jul 06 08:12:54 MohammadAG: true, but I was expecting the devs to atleast reply to the bug Jul 06 08:13:12 hiemanshu, seriously? you expected that? Jul 06 08:13:19 how long have you been with us? :P Jul 06 08:13:23 hiemanshu the optimisttt Jul 06 08:13:24 flailingmonkey: I'm quite sensitive to such "tricks" Jul 06 08:13:25 Heh Jul 06 08:13:38 MohammadAG: yes, well, nothing wrong in hoping :P Jul 06 08:14:07 'I just ordered one for me. Now waiting... this can be a very long week :P' so one more person got it Jul 06 08:14:15 * hiemanshu hopes it have it today or tomorrow Jul 06 08:14:25 s/it/to/ Jul 06 08:14:26 hiemanshu meant: 'I just ordered one for me. Now watoing... this can be a very long week :P' so one more person got it Jul 06 08:14:34 actually the NDA is missing an excemption of publicly known stuff Jul 06 08:14:36 there's still time for today Jul 06 08:14:52 MohammadAG: its barely noon there Jul 06 08:15:04 that's the crux with this NDA Jul 06 08:15:15 DocScrutinizer: NDAs for suits to sue other suits Jul 06 08:15:19 +are Jul 06 08:15:38 hiemanshu, you've ordered one? WHAT? :p Jul 06 08:15:46 Termana: nope, someone else did Jul 06 08:15:54 Termana: thats from the forum Jul 06 08:15:56 oh ok, that's why you had the quotes Jul 06 08:16:03 quotation marks* Jul 06 08:16:05 yup Jul 06 08:16:10 hiemanshu: I take pride in outsmarting suits on their playground Jul 06 08:16:32 DocScrutinizer: true, its fun :D Jul 06 08:16:40 What's the point? Jul 06 08:16:58 i guess I'll get my ass over to the Intel AppUp event in NYC, maybe get to check this thing out in person :p Jul 06 08:17:05 the point is the NDA for N950 has no excemption for publicly known stuff Jul 06 08:17:25 DocScrutinizer: it also has no domain over it. Jul 06 08:17:40 sue it has Jul 06 08:17:45 nope Jul 06 08:17:51 nothing yet Jul 06 08:18:06 It infers no restrictions over open source packages on some server. Jul 06 08:18:18 That it doesn't even mention. Jul 06 08:18:19 I must not -according to the NDA - blog about their sucking email client AS SEEN IN THAT PROMO Jul 06 08:18:47 m'hmm Jul 06 08:19:09 everybody else may, not me though Jul 06 08:19:26 Who cares? You know they're not going to do anything. Jul 06 08:19:31 DocScrutinizer: ssh + alpine FTW :D Jul 06 08:19:44 What NDA? What experience? I have not heard anything back from Quim yet Jul 06 08:20:02 I know they're not going to do anything, but I'm goinf to sign a paper Jul 06 08:20:05 RST38h: you're not likely to. Jul 06 08:20:22 RST38h: quim isn't replying, launchpad is. Jul 06 08:20:28 I READ papers before I sign them Jul 06 08:20:37 Ok, have not heard anything from the Launchpad either Jul 06 08:20:47 and this paper is CRAP Jul 06 08:20:48 RST38h: joion the club :) Jul 06 08:21:01 I sign them then read it Jul 06 08:21:06 DocScrutinizer: you remind me of the south park episode, where kids agree to be used in human experiments when accepting iTunes EULA Jul 06 08:21:07 that way I know I can't reject it Jul 06 08:21:08 hehe Jul 06 08:21:15 RST38h: but some people have noticed launchpad appearing on their nokia developer profile Jul 06 08:21:35 So you could religiously check there until you see launchpad :P Jul 06 08:21:46 Mohammad: Really bad practice Jul 06 08:21:51 time to check my junk folder Jul 06 08:22:10 alterego: I have had launchpad account for months Jul 06 08:22:15 MohammadAG: check the URL, the device shows up there anyway Jul 06 08:22:17 flailingmonkey: human centipad, copied from human centipede :P Jul 06 08:22:23 alterego: that part is not a problem Jul 06 08:22:24 yup Jul 06 08:22:40 Ah, m'kay Jul 06 08:22:58 DocScrutinizer: all I see is a how to on 'Order Devices' :P Jul 06 08:23:19 I think this stuff is being done alphabetically anyway .. Jul 06 08:23:44 alterego: nope, randomness Jul 06 08:24:10 I don't like randomness .. Jul 06 08:24:20 DocScrutinizer, device doesn't exist Jul 06 08:24:37 There must be a method Jul 06 08:25:06 I would have thought alphabetically or by the order the emails came in Jul 06 08:25:07 alterego: its called 'pick up a lucky bastard' Jul 06 08:25:15 But if MohammadAG has got it now ... Jul 06 08:25:22 And he was one of the last Jul 06 08:25:33 I got launchpad, not the N950 Jul 06 08:25:37 alterego: he was batch two Jul 06 08:25:42 second batch bitch :P Jul 06 08:25:44 alterego: and DocScrutinizer is batch 3, got his email Jul 06 08:25:50 Yeah, exactly. Jul 06 08:26:04 alterego: so the method is 'pick up a lucky bastard' :P Jul 06 08:26:04 DocScrutinizer was already launchpad Jul 06 08:26:07 if it's alphabatical Jul 06 08:26:14 you have a long way to go :P Jul 06 08:26:33 Not really, if they're already on 'm' :P Jul 06 08:26:52 alterego: timpoh got it too Jul 06 08:26:56 explain that? :P Jul 06 08:26:59 a quick google search yielded http://paste.debian.net/122060/ Jul 06 08:27:44 so I am going to get a new KB today, I am sure I'll break my F5 key by the end of the week Jul 06 08:27:51 rofl Jul 06 08:28:08 DocScrutinizer, one question Jul 06 08:28:13 Heh Jul 06 08:28:16 which email do they send it to? Jul 06 08:28:21 I'm checking all 3 addresses Jul 06 08:28:23 and my current KB is expensive, should get a cheap $5 one for the F5 Jul 06 08:28:34 MohammadAG: launchpad registered one Jul 06 08:28:56 MohammadAG: the one you gave to launchpad Jul 06 08:29:13 I actually changed my nokia developer email address last week Jul 06 08:30:07 oh wait, I could just use ctrl + r Jul 06 08:31:17 DocScrutinizer: does the device show up on the DDP page too? Jul 06 08:31:30 YES!!! Jul 06 08:31:34 hiemanshu, you can also use Qt to make an auto refreshing browser Jul 06 08:31:41 immediately Jul 06 08:32:11 https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 Jul 06 08:32:27 You could write an N950 app to check if you're getting an N950 :) Jul 06 08:32:35 And run it in the emulator .. Jul 06 08:32:40 DAMN! I can not "save as..." the friffin NDA Jul 06 08:32:59 DocScrutinizer, there's a pdf version if you accept it Jul 06 08:33:17 haha Jul 06 08:33:29 hmm, I am off for a few hours, hope to have an email by the time I am home Jul 06 08:35:29 ttyl hiemanshu Jul 06 08:38:30 alterego, i was batch 1 and still waiting n950 Jul 06 08:38:40 Perhaps the Launchpad processing order is a stack :P Jul 06 08:38:43 so just wait Jul 06 08:39:09 launchpad.stack.rand() Jul 06 08:39:17 see? reverse arrival order! Jul 06 08:39:38 khertan, still waiting for Launchpad approval or just the N950 email? Jul 06 08:40:15 Apple has reportedly begun the filtering of outbound messages sent via its MobileMe service. Jul 06 08:40:46 No, really: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/06/mobileme_censorware_row/ Jul 06 08:41:15 Heh Jul 06 08:41:19 Termana, n950 in launchpad :) i ve got the launchpad approval (but no email) Jul 06 08:41:31 there's no launchpad approval email Jul 06 08:41:48 heya javispedro Jul 06 08:42:00 I'm still waiting to be accepted to launchpad :p Jul 06 08:42:11 hello Jul 06 08:42:11 hmmm. The wiki page has a history, so we could figure out the processing order from that x) Jul 06 08:42:28 RST38h: MobileMe was killed off, replaced by Cloud Jul 06 08:42:36 here a review of N950 http://www.fonearena.com/blog/40638/exclusive-the-epic-nokia-n950-hands-on.html Jul 06 08:42:43 I know one thing's for sure: my application is last ;) Jul 06 08:43:00 we cannot have all our applications last at the same time Jul 06 08:43:25 oh, it would deadlock until next year. Jul 06 08:43:49 Termana, logout / login when verifying ... as using the same session seems give cache data Jul 06 08:44:07 i think N950 might be secret genius move Jul 06 08:44:16 no need to logout/login khertan Jul 06 08:44:24 MohammadAG, was the case for me Jul 06 08:44:29 they pretend its a devkit, while getting N9 ready Jul 06 08:44:42 flailingmonkey, you deserve your thinking right revoked Jul 06 08:44:45 * MohammadAG calls aegis Jul 06 08:44:57 MohammadAG, or i got it quickly between login / logout :) Jul 06 08:45:12 aegis ? Jul 06 08:45:26 but use feedback to release N1K with cutting edge chipset and benefit of massive "focus group" Jul 06 08:45:27 * RST38h calls Ahura Mazda and the Tentacled One Jul 06 08:45:40 focus group begging to give opinions and not needing to be paid :p Jul 06 08:46:19 AEGIS ("Antimatter Experiment: Gravity, Interferometry, Spectroscopy") Jul 06 08:46:28 you wish Jul 06 08:46:43 javispedro, khertan doesn't know about aegis Jul 06 08:46:55 khertan, did you know your nose grows when you lie? Jul 06 08:47:00 :p Jul 06 08:47:19 khertan, also, logging out and logging back in didn't show it but thanks anyway :) Jul 06 08:47:53 hi, does anybody use the n900 for tethering in fedora? Jul 06 08:48:09 MohammadAG, warning: aegisSessionOpen() - failed to open platsec device (ret=-1) <<< hum ... i see aegis word here :) Jul 06 08:48:32 Termana, trying is better than nothing Jul 06 08:48:32 :) Jul 06 08:49:04 khertan: its harmattan security framework Jul 06 08:49:05 you know what platsec means right? Jul 06 08:49:36 a poloneese cake ? Jul 06 08:49:48 heh Jul 06 08:50:13 MohammadAG, morning, which apps are you doing with n950? Jul 06 08:51:34 lcuk, the one I PM'd you the other day Jul 06 08:51:41 as well as some other unannounced work :P Jul 06 08:52:30 heh Jul 06 08:53:05 Urgh, some of these "developers" don't sound like they deserve their place on the DDP Jul 06 08:55:14 ~aegis Jul 06 08:55:14 rumour has it, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 06 08:55:26 alterego, based on their current project or past projects? Jul 06 08:55:42 Termana: just whining .. Jul 06 08:56:02 alterego: I didn't even bother putting in an application, because I don't have published work. I think thats a pretty sensible requirement Jul 06 08:56:34 alterego, :p Jul 06 08:56:41 flailingmonkey: yeah, lets hope most of these guys bring worthwhile apps ;) Jul 06 08:57:08 Anyway, I'm gonna hit the shower,bbiab Jul 06 08:57:19 hit elop instead Jul 06 08:58:53 "Hit the elop" sounds so well that t has to mean something special (I mean, other than hitting the actual Elop) Jul 06 08:59:13 RST38h: yeah, it's like 'Hammertime!" Jul 06 09:01:08 * RST38h suggsets: "Hit the elop" (engl., slang) - Engage into a long row of complaints about corporate governance and upper management ruining the good, technically sound projects Jul 06 09:02:28 won't catch on, as that happens so rarely Jul 06 09:02:35 good technically sound projects i mean Jul 06 09:02:42 morning Jul 06 09:02:54 moorning lardman Jul 06 09:03:08 hi RST38h Jul 06 09:03:13 dare I ask about emails....? Jul 06 09:03:22 lardman: no, not yet Jul 06 09:03:32 lardman: nobody knows when either Jul 06 09:03:49 lardman: But Doc has dug out the N950 NDA somewhere Jul 06 09:04:31 I had to log into my Nokia Developer account this morning, rather than it just remembering, but that may be nothing Jul 06 09:04:40 certainly no device yet available for me Jul 06 09:05:25 * lardman goes off to do some testing Jul 06 09:20:27 DocScrutinizer, I'll ask again, did you accept the NDA? Jul 06 09:21:06 Of course he accepted it Jul 06 09:21:37 and I remember a part of it mentioning it shouldn't be pasted anywhere Jul 06 09:23:32 MohammadAG, he can paste it before he accepts it Jul 06 09:23:39 after that he can't Jul 06 09:24:04 I'd delete this then http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=25110#post25110 Jul 06 09:33:08 That section 5 is exactly why I could never work with a N950 Jul 06 09:33:24 All of the thing I do involve reverse engineering or otherwise trying to make the platform better Jul 06 09:33:44 jonwil: it's all bs, it's a default NDA Nokia use for everyone. Jul 06 09:34:20 Doesn't mean much in the context of N9/50 harmattan as every developer working on MeeGo Community Edition breaks its' terms :) Jul 06 09:34:34 btw, I am getting closer to having a clone of the Fremantle libdisplay.so mce plugin Jul 06 09:34:51 it will need some testing by people to ensure it works though Jul 06 09:35:00 i.e. that nothing broke Jul 06 09:35:08 its surprisingly complex Jul 06 09:35:36 :D Jul 06 09:35:51 alterego: You are supposed to pay 500 euros for breaking it =) Jul 06 09:35:54 after libdisplay, I will go for some more mce plugins Jul 06 09:35:58 jonwil, so you're basically working on getting fremantle into Freemantle? Jul 06 09:36:04 RST38h: pfft, they can f'off :P Jul 06 09:36:17 RST38h: if I break it I expect a replacement :) Jul 06 09:36:39 BTW, all the launchpad-specific pages are gone off forum.nokia.com Jul 06 09:36:40 I am working on cloning/finding info on specific bits of Fremantle to aid in other projects Jul 06 09:36:44 I cannot find a single one Jul 06 09:39:03 Developer Account Preferences still state both NDA and the Launchpad membership though Jul 06 09:40:40 I have a link on my N900 home screen which opens my developer account settings on nokia developer .. Jul 06 09:40:47 Still no launchpad :( Jul 06 09:41:03 alterego, still no launchpad here either Jul 06 09:41:16 I wanna start hacking on it. Jul 06 09:42:43 there is also a point that tell about a loan of 3 years. Nokia suppose to get it back after that time ? Jul 06 09:43:11 I guess the main question is whether Nokia will sitll exist in 3 years =( Jul 06 09:43:17 Heh Jul 06 09:43:19 But we will see Jul 06 09:43:19 ha Jul 06 09:43:54 Nokia wont go under, as long as they've got MeeGo in the background Jul 06 09:44:05 And the talented hardware designers they currently have. Jul 06 09:44:23 The whole N8, E7, N9, N950 look is super sleek Jul 06 09:44:26 alterego: 1) Elop explicitely said there will not be Meego in the background Jul 06 09:44:31 And it's unique, which is awesome. Jul 06 09:44:50 RST38h: are you talking about that sea ray demo? Jul 06 09:44:50 alterego: 2) He also said that WP phoens are being developed in California, not in some stinky nordic shitspot Jul 06 09:45:07 Yeah, that's rather retarded .. Jul 06 09:45:13 alterego: Which is [supposedly] unable to satisfy the sophisticated tastes of American customers Jul 06 09:45:21 But then, I'm actually happy about it at the same time. Jul 06 09:45:21 s/that/he/ Jul 06 09:46:49 alterego: And finally 3) lots of European Nokia engineers got the message and left by now Jul 06 09:46:53 RST38h, s/customers/operators/. no one gives a shit about customers in US, it is operator-controlled market Jul 06 09:47:16 alterego: So, in 3 years, only the Tentacled One can tell what will happen. But He is not saying. Jul 06 09:47:23 No one, _should_ give a shit about the Us .. Jul 06 09:47:29 what I hope is that at some point there won't be any Elop in the bg Jul 06 09:47:32 question is, where did they leave to Jul 06 09:47:36 No one, _should_ give a shit about the Us .. Jul 06 09:47:38 Yeah, we'll wait and see Jul 06 09:47:43 Arkenoi: Well, do not mix his public message with his real goals Jul 06 09:47:45 alterego++ Jul 06 09:48:03 operators like WP7 because they can customize it a lot but at the same time its very locked down against user modification Jul 06 09:48:05 Arkenoi: For the public, he has to provide a plausible explanation of what is going on. Jul 06 09:48:17 Android is customizable Jul 06 09:48:22 but also user modifiable Jul 06 09:48:27 Arkenoi: So he says "Americas are the main market and Americans want an American-design phone" Jul 06 09:48:38 The US is tiny compared to, Asia and the Middle East Jul 06 09:48:48 Fuck American market :) Jul 06 09:49:04 Concentrate on the more up-to-date European and Asian markets. Jul 06 09:49:05 Arkenoi: And his US investors listen to him and nod Jul 06 09:49:57 I really don't get it why an EU based company would make america their main market Jul 06 09:50:03 it just doesn't make sense Jul 06 09:50:21 ruskie: indeed .. Jul 06 09:50:36 It literally, doesn't make any sense. Jul 06 09:50:38 MS Shill Jul 06 09:50:42 Makes p[erfect sense Jul 06 09:51:01 ruskie: because US is where the money is? Jul 06 09:51:14 http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/comScore-July-11-MobilLens-report/ <-- especially when reading something like this the WP7 thing makes even less sense Jul 06 09:51:20 Well, it does kinda make sense, Nokia can't compete with the super high end magic that happens in asia, and they have no market share in super smart phones in Europe and the US .. Jul 06 09:51:42 ruskie: because CEO is an American and he does not really care about weird slowpokes behind the ocean? Jul 06 09:52:30 note to world... USA isn't the only thing around Jul 06 09:52:46 ruskie: For US investors and managers it is Jul 06 09:52:58 ruskie: And it actually works out pretty well for them Jul 06 09:54:52 alterego: thanks for the QGraphicsView->scale thing yesterday at the meetup.. made my day and stopped me from going on an ugly, epic-failed, path.. :) Jul 06 09:55:04 :) Jul 06 09:55:04 the CEO was also a manager of microsoft :) Jul 06 09:55:15 cpscotti: no problem, have you tried it? :D Jul 06 09:55:16 Or did, anyway. Who knows what happens once US loses dominance Jul 06 09:55:45 asia takes over ;) Jul 06 09:55:49 MohammadAG: stop spreading FUD, point me to the passage stating the NDA itself includes itself into it, I.E. NDA is under NDA. Damn we're not the friggin CIA, but neverthelesas I have to kill you when I say one more word about it Jul 06 09:55:55 cpscotti: sorry about the abrupt exit, you know, trains and losing track of time ;) Jul 06 09:56:28 DocScrutinizer: you accepted an NDA when you created the developer account Jul 06 09:56:44 Which could possibly cover other NDAs under that :P Jul 06 09:56:51 alterego, yeah yeah.. I know how it works Jul 06 09:57:23 Still, was a good evening Jul 06 09:57:26 alterego, I just added graphicsView->scale(1.35,1.55) and.. voilá! :D Jul 06 09:57:41 Nice :) Jul 06 09:57:55 I'm glad it worked :D Jul 06 09:57:57 the ratio's not the same bc of the menu on top Jul 06 09:58:04 alterego: if that'd contain any material marked "confidential" then you'd be right Jul 06 09:58:05 me too Jul 06 09:58:20 DocScrutinizer: well, I don't remember :) Jul 06 09:58:34 I always read them, but don't really remember what they say :D Jul 06 09:59:00 I clearly remember this particular NDA does NOT contain any note about it being confidential, and hell why should it??? Jul 06 09:59:07 Doc: You can kill him not being the CIA. Being CIA just allows you to kill him remotely, from a drone Jul 06 09:59:30 Heh Jul 06 10:00:00 cpscotti: seeing and holding that N950 last night .. Jul 06 10:00:10 Really looking forward to having my own :D Jul 06 10:00:26 yeah.. crazy.. but they are coming.... I hope Jul 06 10:00:47 I said it then, but it's definitely got the sex appeal / wow factor the N810 had. Jul 06 10:00:52 I miss it already.. Jul 06 10:01:25 The N900 lacked it, but made up for it because it's just awesome, but the N950 just makes maemo look sexy again .. Jul 06 10:01:30 *cough* meego Jul 06 10:01:36 Lol Jul 06 10:01:52 btw.. the tablet there... a bit ugly aint it? Jul 06 10:02:16 I tried on the bus for 5 mins.. got bored and went back to my n900 for entertainment Jul 06 10:02:40 btw you'll have a chance to read this particular NDA soon enough, and then point me to the "confidential" mark on top that's not there. Or you use google or a better search engine and find it already disclosed elsewhere so I'm talking about publicly available stuff, and that's usually not under anrstriction whatsoever Jul 06 10:04:43 anyway you need to make up your mind: am *I* the one nitpicking on the NDA, or are *you* even better than me on that nitpicking and even spreading FUD Jul 06 10:06:36 ((honestly kids, I probably can buy a preprinted form containing this exact wording on my next office utilities store)) Jul 06 10:08:53 cpscotti: I'd recommend installing the wetab os on it. Jul 06 10:09:09 And when you stop acting like childs, ask yourself what damage is done to Nokia when this NDA gets public. Obviously none whatsoever Jul 06 10:09:14 Though ubuntu 11.04 works quite nicely, you just need to use a keyboard with it ;) Jul 06 10:09:42 as there's ZERO confidential material in it Jul 06 10:10:46 the only faintly confidential material is the fact of existence of such an NDA at all, and that's been pretty self-evident with the community DDP Jul 06 10:11:54 alterego, Hmm, looks like a good idea (the wetab one). but I'll force myself to just play around the beast and do something cool out of that.. so.. the less useful the better Jul 06 10:11:56 Doc, stop fuming over nothing Jul 06 10:12:35 Whether it is ok or not to publish the NDA, it is your personal decision, nobody here can *make* you change it. Jul 06 10:12:55 Nokia might, but then it will be between you and them Jul 06 10:15:04 cpscotti: at the least, update it to a newer tablet version ;) Jul 06 10:15:38 The one it comes with is, well, super old. Jul 06 10:16:00 ahh ok. So then the wetab one is the easier way out? Jul 06 10:16:45 DocScrutinizer, read sections 1a, 1b, 1c, 2, 3, 6 and 14 of the Nokia Developer NDA Jul 06 10:17:12 Oh, what a bunch of raving wikipedian IANALs =) Jul 06 10:17:32 isn't the proper term... armchair lawyers? Jul 06 10:17:33 cpscotti: the wetab os is more mature, but the meego tablet build that comes on the exo is old, so if you want to hack on meego tablet ux, then I'd at least update the install. Jul 06 10:17:50 I won't, as Quim is a saner partner to discuss this stuff. See http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25124&postcount=469 Jul 06 10:18:09 But if you want to _use_ the tablet, I'd install wetab os ;) Jul 06 10:18:18 ruskie; yes, but it does not incude the asshole in it Jul 06 10:18:29 rofl Jul 06 10:18:37 cool cool! Thanks.. by default I'd just think that what comes on it was what you'd get Jul 06 10:19:02 Neah, I think you've also got a windows 7 license on the back ;) Jul 06 10:19:09 DocScrutinizer, I was referring to disclosing information contained in the NDA for the N950 Jul 06 10:19:41 Termana: MohammadAG: so if you want to start a legal case aginst me, you obviously have to find other partners. Quim won't evidently support you Jul 06 10:20:14 sigh, this discussion is still going? Jul 06 10:20:16 and for all that matters, in my book Quim == Nokia here Jul 06 10:20:57 DocScrutinizer, gees you make such a big deal about the writing in the subsequent NDA, but you are fine with ignoring the first one. Jul 06 10:21:04 Termana: I'm doing this legal mambojambo since ~30 years now. Don't tell me how to read NDA Jul 06 10:21:41 alterego, thanks! Jul 06 10:21:43 hell, I *managed* NDA stuff at OpenMoko Jul 06 10:22:35 cool story bro Jul 06 10:22:37 and MY name is on first page of documents "disclosing stuff", so expect me to know my business Jul 06 10:22:47 cpscotti: np :) Jul 06 10:29:28 sorry for my pissed mood, but >>[2011-07-06 11:16:35] DocScrutinizer, I'll ask again, did you accept the NDA?<< sounds rather offensive to me Jul 06 10:30:20 DocScrutinizer, actually, none intended Jul 06 10:30:55 does anybody know how to (using grep/sed/awk) read just the latest version number from debian/changelog ? Jul 06 10:31:06 apparently talking about the N950 is causing arguments(?) or bad moods, let's talk N810s Jul 06 10:31:13 moo lcuk :-D Jul 06 10:31:19 lcuk, Qt peeps Jul 06 10:31:19 moo! Jul 06 10:31:38 It is the long wait. Jul 06 10:31:38 I know how to stop the bad moods and arguments, send us emails! Jul 06 10:31:42 * RST38h feeds lcuk some grass Jul 06 10:32:06 lcuk: grep "wahtever .*" infile|tail -n 1 Jul 06 10:32:08 lcuk, $(shell head -n 1 debian/changelog | sed 's/[^0-9.-]//g') Jul 06 10:32:11 head -1 debian/changelog | sed 's/[^(]*(\([^)]*\)).*/\1/' Jul 06 10:32:14 lcuk, have fun Jul 06 10:32:20 * lardman adds some tasty daisies Jul 06 10:32:26 \o/ thanks all Jul 06 10:32:31 ooh, head Jul 06 10:32:33 yeah Jul 06 10:32:45 3 answers, all of them different :D Jul 06 10:32:51 lardman, nom nom nom emails Jul 06 10:33:08 I cheated though http://qt.gitorious.org/+qt-developers/qt/x11-maemo/blobs/4.7-fremantle/debian/rules#line11 Jul 06 10:33:16 heh Jul 06 10:33:23 mine the simplest as you don't need sed when you can use grep ;-) Jul 06 10:33:24 MohammadAG, hah, the answer I gave I use in drnoksnes debian/rule Jul 06 10:33:31 Termana: you received anything yet? Jul 06 10:33:41 lardman, nope, still not accepted into launchpad Jul 06 10:33:50 hmm Jul 06 10:34:13 I'm assuming I'm accepted as I can see that page, but still nothing to order Jul 06 10:34:57 MohammadAG's the smartest as it really delivers exatly the string you asked for Jul 06 10:35:36 mhm, network is so slow today Jul 06 10:35:46 though head -1 tends to fail nowadays Jul 06 10:35:48 Ah I see Doc has ordered Jul 06 10:35:58 yoh Jul 06 10:36:42 DocScrutinizer, my regexp is too strict though, of course it works well for my version numbering style Jul 06 10:37:17 javispedro: I' also puzzled about $(shell ,,,) Jul 06 10:37:32 DocScrutinizer, comes from a makefile, which is where I bet it is going to be used in ;) Jul 06 10:37:42 wow, this has to be the best N950 review ever - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 Jul 06 10:37:43 hey, it's not mine, it's Qt's debs' maintainer's Jul 06 10:37:44 *GNU makefile Jul 06 10:38:03 javispedro: anyway, a subshell in a subshell? Jul 06 10:38:20 DocScrutinizer, that's how makefile exec shell commands Jul 06 10:38:29 no, $(shell x) is standard GNU make syntax to spawn a shell -c "x", and capture stdout Jul 06 10:38:34 strange Jul 06 10:38:38 makefiles* Jul 06 10:38:44 CURRENTVERSION := $(shell head -1 debian/changelog | sed 's/[^(]*(\([^)]*\)).*/\1/') Jul 06 10:38:51 afaik $( ) already opens a subshell Jul 06 10:38:57 in bash maybe Jul 06 10:39:03 meh Jul 06 10:39:09 and ash Jul 06 10:39:13 don't say the word! Jul 06 10:39:15 but not /usr/bin/make Jul 06 10:39:20 ok Jul 06 10:39:23 wow Termana, awesome review Jul 06 10:39:28 make is a special critter Jul 06 10:40:21 lardman, do you mean this page - https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 ? I just get "Unexpected error has occured. Please try again." and it's not listed under My programs Jul 06 10:41:06 Where does one find "My Programs"? Jul 06 10:41:30 lardman, https://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml Jul 06 10:41:36 near the bottom of that page Jul 06 10:42:02 Termana i guess it will appear here : https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP?sfdc.tabName=01r20000000L8iX Jul 06 10:42:24 Same error :p Jul 06 10:42:45 try to log out Jul 06 10:42:50 and back in Jul 06 10:43:04 tried that several times Jul 06 10:43:09 I get some redirects and eventually back to the Device Distrubution page with no devices listed Jul 06 10:43:16 lardman me too Jul 06 10:43:26 * lardman goes back to waiting Jul 06 10:43:43 But, when trying to follow the launchpad application link from the email I get Jul 06 10:43:44 "There is an existing membership application already for this program. The applicant will be notified by e-mail once the membership application has been reviewed." Jul 06 10:44:02 well, it will show up/not produce errors eventualy so all we need is patience :) Jul 06 10:45:43 In the mean time you should all watch that review I linked above, it's great! Jul 06 10:46:07 * RST38h goes back to chewing nails Jul 06 10:46:12 Termana: we know you're probably rick rolling again :P Jul 06 10:46:21 Termana: if you didn't do it everyday ... Jul 06 10:47:06 Hi w00t__ Jul 06 10:47:20 alterego, have you checked your email? I sent you something earlier Jul 06 10:47:37 pfft Jul 06 10:47:53 My email checks me Jul 06 10:48:09 If you've sent something it must be the wrong address :P Jul 06 10:49:15 alterego, it was an @msn.com one I pulled from Maemo packages Jul 06 10:49:22 Oh Jul 06 10:49:26 * alterego checks Jul 06 10:51:40 Hah, you're in junk :P Jul 06 10:52:59 I'd believe the email Termana if I hadn't already seen an authentic one :P Jul 06 10:53:07 reboot time, the wonders of Windows, brb Jul 06 10:53:40 alterego, I don't know what your talking about? Jul 06 10:53:42 And obfuscating links in emails is a no, no :P Jul 06 10:54:10 How many other people did you troll or is it just me? Jul 06 10:54:13 darn it Jul 06 10:54:26 alterego, MohammadAG came up with the idea and 5 minutes later I got him with it Jul 06 10:54:33 Heh Jul 06 10:54:49 kojacker ordered his N950 Jul 06 10:55:02 Neat Jul 06 10:55:07 Where's mine? :P Jul 06 10:55:40 Termana: also, that isn't the address I'm using on nokia developer ;) Jul 06 10:56:01 Termana: also, that isn't the address I'm using on nokia developer ;) Jul 06 10:56:02 It's not called a spam bucket account for no reason .. Jul 06 10:56:48 Termana, didn't click the link though :P Jul 06 10:56:57 I mean, Nokia doesn't use Tinyurls :P Jul 06 10:57:16 MohammadAG: yes, that was one of the give aways :P Jul 06 11:00:13 my n950 is on a trash can somewhere in HEL Jul 06 11:00:20 http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23n950club Jul 06 11:00:34 it's just waiting for it be to found Jul 06 11:00:54 * javispedro puts on indiana jones hat and mentally sings indiana theme Jul 06 11:02:46 Termana: I went thru the nuisance to read LAunchpad/Developer NDA agreement and evaluate the ponts you quoted: they clearly define "Information" as "technical and/or commercial" in 1 a)b)c). An NDA is none of each, it's a contract and as such not information per se. So the further points need no evaluation Jul 06 11:03:13 MohammadAG: anything yet? Jul 06 11:03:33 hiemanshu_, Elop leaves Nokia! Jul 06 11:03:42 MUHAHAHA Jul 06 11:03:47 if only this was true Jul 06 11:03:58 MohammadAG: muhahahaha! I'll now buy a N950 soon :D Jul 06 11:04:19 MohammadAG: and I'll gift you one too Jul 06 11:04:19 Elop leaves "Nokia, a Microsoft subsidiary" because now that he's back into redmond Elop also wants his old office back. Jul 06 11:04:20 but wait, maybe not. Him leaving probably means "job accomplished, Nokia dead". So... Jul 06 11:04:27 MohammadAG: and preorder a Nokia N10 :D Jul 06 11:04:46 Nah Jul 06 11:04:50 Nokia still has a chance Jul 06 11:04:53 actually I winder what this RM-715(?) is Jul 06 11:04:59 timeless: pong (+20h) Jul 06 11:05:00 wonder* Jul 06 11:05:11 MeeGo isn't bad for consumers Jul 06 11:05:16 DocScrutinizer, remember the RX-71? Jul 06 11:05:20 I wish they would just let me order my fucking N950 Jul 06 11:05:21 yo Jul 06 11:05:45 aah, I see a schema Jul 06 11:05:56 maybe ;-P Jul 06 11:06:04 DocScrutinizer: so did you finally agree to the NDA and order your N950? Jul 06 11:06:07 nah, sure of it :P Jul 06 11:06:24 don't ask how though Jul 06 11:07:26 * RST38h sees the huge green robot eating symbians, webosians, and elopians alike Jul 06 11:07:37 http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/mce/blobs/master/mce-hal.h >>#define PRODUCT_RM716_STR "RM-716" /**< ??? */ Jul 06 11:07:50 While the latter engage in their petty market squabbles Jul 06 11:07:53 RST38h: the one wiping the shit on the road? Jul 06 11:08:13 RST38h: Oh well, so long as we still have devices with open bootloader, we can then load our own super-OS onto the Android device of our choice Jul 06 11:08:22 hah Jul 06 11:08:36 first step after the green robot eats the market is forget about glibc 3d drivers. Jul 06 11:08:37 Meanwhile: A former Flextronics exec is facing up to 30 years in prison for leaking details of Apple's iPhone 4 development as part of an insider trading scam Jul 06 11:08:43 alterego, MohammadAG: I'll stop pranking everyone for a while Jul 06 11:08:44 robbiethe1st: HTC is finally going to unlock theirs Jul 06 11:08:49 Termana, why? Jul 06 11:08:50 I heard about that Jul 06 11:08:51 But have you checked your emails lately Jul 06 11:08:53 :p Jul 06 11:09:00 j/k Jul 06 11:09:07 Termana: you dont have my email ID do you? :P Jul 06 11:09:19 Termana: spam GeneralAntilles and wake him up with disco lights :P Jul 06 11:09:21 RST38h, the details include keywords such as magic fairy powder? Jul 06 11:09:36 Termana: you are actually gone off that wiki.meego.com page Jul 06 11:09:45 Termana: I wonder why... Jul 06 11:10:08 javispedro: If I tell you, they will make me share the cell with him! Jul 06 11:10:09 hiemanshu_: gan said the alarm is off when "house sleeps" Jul 06 11:10:16 DocScrutinizer: damn :( Jul 06 11:11:06 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders where to pick up the DHL tracking number of the order :-D** Jul 06 11:11:09 javispedro: Have you ever shared a jail cell with a business executive? It must be torturous! Jul 06 11:11:13 RST38h, from being a naughty boy? Jul 06 11:11:24 * hiemanshu_ shoots DocScrutinizer Jul 06 11:11:31 ~shoot DocScrutinizer Jul 06 11:11:32 * infobot shoots DocScrutinizer in the foot with a spitwad! Jul 06 11:11:50 ~trout DocScrutinizer Jul 06 11:11:51 * infobot slaps DocScrutinizer around a bit with a large trout! Jul 06 11:11:53 hiemanshu_, no I don't unfortunately. I was going to do you earlier but I couldn't find your email address. Consider yourself lucky! :p Jul 06 11:12:06 Termana: muhahaha :D Jul 06 11:12:37 //kick hiemanshu_ Jul 06 11:12:54 re Jul 06 11:13:12 my PC at home still has the script running, so if I get an email with N950, it would start playing music, that would freak out everyone at home :P Jul 06 11:13:23 lardman: anything other than launchpad yet? Jul 06 11:13:30 RST38h, but those usually get out "quite early", fortunately. Jul 06 11:13:41 (for his cellmates, that is ;) ) Jul 06 11:14:26 hiemanshu_: nothing on the order page and no email either Jul 06 11:14:39 lardman: ugh, sad :( Jul 06 11:14:42 yeah Jul 06 11:15:30 MUHAHAHA actually there's no trace on my launchpad site about any order Jul 06 11:15:46 I gather it's been a hoax by termana Jul 06 11:16:01 DocScrutinizer, I went the extra mile for you my friend Jul 06 11:16:32 really? Jul 06 11:16:42 * lardman removes Doc from hish Xmas card list :p Jul 06 11:17:26 btw Jul 06 11:17:27 "You have a watch waiting to be collected' <-- WTF :( Jul 06 11:17:39 on unrelated good news, nokia care does sell n900 stylus, for 6€ apiece. Jul 06 11:17:41 LOL Jul 06 11:17:48 ouch Jul 06 11:17:54 lardman: but... but... I got the paperprint of the orderpage!!1!!1!!!1!eleven Jul 06 11:18:14 It is the Meego watch!!! Jul 06 11:18:18 DocScrutinizer: stop wasting paper, nokia is wasting enough already Jul 06 11:18:19 send me the device so I can confirm you had one, and I'll put you back on the list Jul 06 11:18:26 hahaha Jul 06 11:18:26 hiemanshu, whoever came up with that is a genius Jul 06 11:18:57 MohammadAG, he's not, it would have been much funnier if s/watch/n8/ Jul 06 11:19:03 MohammadAG: hah, well I renewed a subscription to something, they are sending me a free watch Jul 06 11:19:04 AAAAAH Jul 06 11:19:17 WP7 phone would be even funnier Jul 06 11:19:22 MohammadAG: I dont care about watches though Jul 06 11:19:27 hiemanshu_, oh so it's a not a troll Jul 06 11:19:29 We would be able to see Doc explode right here Jul 06 11:19:34 MohammadAG: nope Jul 06 11:19:52 >>>Your order has been received<<< >>>Your order has been sent<<< >>>Ticket for order OID-052736 [ ref:00D2Kmvd.5.......]<<< Jul 06 11:20:07 DocScrutinizer: sent? :D Jul 06 11:20:14 now mail actually starts getting interesting Jul 06 11:20:20 Arrival from Nigeria in 10 days. Jul 06 11:20:35 customs invoice number to pay? Jul 06 11:20:36 When you receive and unpack your order, do not forget to feed him. Jul 06 11:20:51 hmm, my SD swap script doesnt seem to be working properly Jul 06 11:20:52 RST38h: you mean blow her up? :P Jul 06 11:21:10 hiemanshu: This strictly depends on what you have ordered Jul 06 11:21:11 >>Your order has been sent on 6.7.2011. Please see the order information below.<< Jul 06 11:21:18 DocScrutinizer: w00t Jul 06 11:21:32 DocScrutinizer: so you should one of the first people to recieve it Jul 06 11:21:33 those guys are fast as lightning Jul 06 11:21:41 yeah Jul 06 11:21:50 I wonder how that could happen Jul 06 11:21:53 now only if I could order one :/ Jul 06 11:22:10 DocScrutinizer: I can imagine quim standing there with a trout :P Jul 06 11:22:20 'WORK YOU BIATCHES! WORK' Jul 06 11:22:51 More like calling them on a mouldy rotary phone Jul 06 11:22:58 All covered with cobwebs Jul 06 11:23:04 now the DDP page wont load :( Jul 06 11:23:13 because half of this channel hit F5. Jul 06 11:23:24 nah, they are used to send 1000000 devioces per day Jul 06 11:23:48 DocScrutinizer: so they are sending it from .fi? Jul 06 11:23:55 :shrug: Jul 06 11:24:11 I know apple sends me from china, much much closer to me :D Jul 06 11:24:13 Hi Jul 06 11:24:14 please let me know once you have received the device. Jul 06 11:24:16 Thank you, Jul 06 11:24:17 Joan Jul 06 11:24:19 DAS Jul 06 11:24:27 DocScrutinizer: no tracking number? Jul 06 11:24:33 ah, lucky bastards getting the N950 Jul 06 11:24:43 Hurrian: only DocScrutinizer Jul 06 11:24:51 >>You will also receive an automatic email notification from the courier providing you the shipment details. << Jul 06 11:25:09 ah Jul 06 11:25:17 ok, votes for kicking all the bastards who have a device from this channel? Jul 06 11:25:19 so once they collect it for shipment, they'll send it to you Jul 06 11:25:24 javispedro: +1 Jul 06 11:25:36 javispedro: Jaffa goes first, then X-Fade Jul 06 11:25:37 DocScrutinizer: I guess you already read today xkcd? :) Jul 06 11:25:47 nope :-D Jul 06 11:26:01 then go :) Jul 06 11:26:02 javispedro: I'd like to see you do that :) Jul 06 11:26:21 =) Jul 06 11:26:44 half of the chanops have a device, so it would be a kinda takeover =) Jul 06 11:27:15 X-Fade: come on do eet! kick yourself out :P Jul 06 11:28:39 It gets takeovererer and takeovererer Jul 06 11:29:36 Corsac: exactly to the point X-D Jul 06 11:29:41 http://beta.html5test.com/results-mobile.html Jul 06 11:29:47 dohoho, nokia Jul 06 11:30:22 Hurrian: well they'll have to improve to beat iOS 5 Jul 06 11:30:40 webkit vs webkit? fight! Jul 06 11:30:58 webkit vs webkit2 Jul 06 11:31:27 anyone know if the new M6 browser is open source? Jul 06 11:31:28 plus their JS engine, nitro something Jul 06 11:32:36 Windows Phone 7 is *25*??? Jul 06 11:32:38 hmmm, there seems to be nothing yet Jul 06 11:32:41 and /me has to leave Jul 06 11:32:48 see all of you from home Jul 06 11:36:37 hmm, /me has bad feeling that nokia-binaries is hueg Jul 06 11:36:41 No programs. No programs. No programs. Jul 06 11:36:48 ""This is the reference implementation of the self-referential joke"" http://xkcd.com/917/ HAHAHA Jul 06 11:38:55 Launchpadthis launchpadthat, when are we launchpading into launchpad? Jul 06 11:39:06 my battery on the n900 seams dead and wont charge Jul 06 11:39:14 not even 1 year old yet Jul 06 11:39:25 appiah, desktop charger or 5800 XPressmusic Jul 06 11:39:30 Appiah, hook the device to the power plugged charger and leave it for a couple of hours... Jul 06 11:39:43 or maybe your usb connector messed up Jul 06 11:39:45 ruskie: oh ok Jul 06 11:39:47 Hurrian, never really needed that one Jul 06 11:39:59 no I got another battery and it started charging right away Jul 06 11:40:29 well if it's near flat it needs quite a while to get up Jul 06 11:40:46 and yeah... needs to be using the power plugged adapter Jul 06 11:40:51 hmm, i'm thinking of buying a bag worth of batteries and swapping every time it goes flat Jul 06 11:41:09 beacuse I got a low warning , then I started charging , 1 hour later i unplugg and 10secs later it dies Jul 06 11:41:19 and wouldnt charge again. Jul 06 11:41:22 thats odd Jul 06 11:41:43 But I'll try again, right now I need to recive some calls :) Jul 06 11:41:48 1 hour charges roughly ~40% on the n900's stock battery Jul 06 11:42:35 that is odd Jul 06 11:43:30 eeeh Jul 06 11:43:31 wait Jul 06 11:43:41 this other battery is not charging either >_> Jul 06 11:43:48 dead usb? Jul 06 11:43:53 appiah, likely Jul 06 11:43:56 it just happens to be nearly full Jul 06 11:44:06 use a desktop charger , etc Jul 06 11:44:17 looking at pics of older NITs, the kickstand's as large as the whole device Jul 06 11:44:38 that'd be nice to have on the N900 Jul 06 11:44:42 I'm using the wallcharger that was included Jul 06 11:44:52 hmm Jul 06 11:44:58 then sounds like a broken usb Jul 06 11:45:00 Nokia replaces this for free right? Jul 06 11:45:15 should Jul 06 11:45:18 yes, by giving you a n8., Jul 06 11:45:19 but you might get a swap device Jul 06 11:45:32 javispedro: please dont joke about that! Jul 06 11:45:36 he's not Jul 06 11:45:39 people actually get that Jul 06 11:45:45 send a n900 -> get back a n8 Jul 06 11:45:45 in what countries? Jul 06 11:45:50 sometimes, a E7 Jul 06 11:45:51 n8 is the n900 swap device Jul 06 11:45:59 cant fucking be Jul 06 11:46:02 appiah, if n900 stocks run out Jul 06 11:46:02 frankly I rather take a soldering iron to mine Jul 06 11:46:15 if that needs to be done Jul 06 11:46:18 gonna call the store I bought it from and check first Jul 06 11:46:20 ruskie ++ Jul 06 11:46:44 even if I need to wire up each wire separately and have it sticking out of the device I would still do it Jul 06 11:46:56 appiah, the USB replacement is in the service manuals Jul 06 11:47:00 if it hasnt snapped off yet Jul 06 11:47:15 that is after I would try with the actual local service Jul 06 11:47:25 since they aren't nokia they might actually fix it Jul 06 11:47:26 lots of other nokia devices made in 2008-2009 use micro-b, you should be able to get it fixed Jul 06 11:48:21 and if nokia charges out the ass for a USB repair, take it to a local shop Jul 06 11:48:27 HAH http://xkcd.com/912/ Jul 06 11:48:43 I'm going to the store were I bought it , and I know they dont send it to "nokia" but a service company Jul 06 11:48:47 print out any additional directions from the N900 usb repair thread Jul 06 11:48:55 same company that handles most computers and TV's in this country.. Jul 06 11:48:57 tell them to do that to it Jul 06 11:49:33 but so far had 0 issues with the usb port *knock on wood* Jul 06 11:50:02 and had it since december 4th 2009 the day it was available here Jul 06 11:51:04 hmm, really depends on device Jul 06 11:51:22 I think also how one treats it Jul 06 11:51:36 ruskie, yeah I had no problem with the USB port on my N900 Jul 06 11:51:50 Until I ripped it open and cracked the usb port off Jul 06 11:51:51 Appiah: I'd check the friggin wallcharger first Jul 06 11:52:07 or try a usb charge? Jul 06 11:52:11 and would conect device to PC to do so Jul 06 11:52:38 Termana, lol wut Jul 06 11:52:52 lol Jul 06 11:52:58 I didn't really crack the usb port off Jul 06 11:53:11 hmm, i wonder if there's a way to make the USB port actually hook to the case Jul 06 11:53:18 But i did rip it open, that tex screw gave me this shits and it was already dead Jul 06 11:53:23 the* Jul 06 11:53:31 like... every other Nokia device. Jul 06 11:53:52 first, why the **** is there a gap between the case and the USB port Jul 06 11:53:55 Hurrian, I meant the hardware Jul 06 11:54:06 i know Jul 06 11:54:30 just complaining about how the symbian nseries people were likely involved in the N900 design Jul 06 11:54:36 Hurrian: there's a gap to allow PCB insertion to the case Jul 06 11:54:57 Hurrian, it just looked like you were making a joke about Nokia devices being dead (dead end as the tmo people say) Jul 06 11:55:10 Hurrian: of course you *could* mount a usb receptacle to the case and solder to board with 5 wires Jul 06 11:55:12 @Termana, uhh, nope Jul 06 11:55:17 6 actually Jul 06 11:55:32 Hurrian, well it was a good joke, so should have claimed it Jul 06 11:55:38 docscrutinizer, i'd like to be able to disassemble the thing ;) Jul 06 11:56:07 yeah, pretty much that's hindering disassembly Jul 06 11:56:43 in addition, i'd still like to make my white and green N900 case Jul 06 11:57:00 which i'll probably do with a lot of vinyl stickers Jul 06 11:57:02 hmm apparently Nokia is dropping Japan market Jul 06 11:57:04 DocScrutinizer: I tried 3 Jul 06 11:57:10 2 of them are nokia original Jul 06 11:57:18 + i tried 3 usb cables Jul 06 11:57:19 hmmm Jul 06 11:57:33 ruskie, not surprising Jul 06 11:57:39 ruskie, for real this time Jul 06 11:57:49 Appiah: and you can activate and use mass storage mode? Jul 06 11:57:56 nope Jul 06 11:57:58 and apparently the main player on the Japanese market is Apple???!!!??? Jul 06 11:57:59 get nothing Jul 06 11:58:09 * ruskie tries to figure that out... Jul 06 11:58:12 ruskie, not really surprising Jul 06 11:58:16 Appiah: then your usb receptacle is broken Jul 06 11:58:24 how the hell? apple in the japanese market? Jul 06 11:58:28 yeah Jul 06 11:58:29 haven't you seen the Japanese with their sausages? Jul 06 11:58:31 same reaction Jul 06 11:58:37 Appiah: check for debris Jul 06 11:58:42 I'm making a trip to the store, and gonna ask em not to replace the phone if they are not gonna fix it , but just send it back Jul 06 11:58:46 Appiah: or bent contacts Jul 06 11:58:49 considering that they use something other than what us or europe use for mobile stuff iirc Jul 06 11:58:51 DocScrutinizer: looks fine Jul 06 11:59:05 but it does look a bit loose Jul 06 11:59:09 or like it turned a bit Jul 06 11:59:24 touch it carefully - does it move Jul 06 11:59:29 ruskie, no, they're mostly GSM+WCDMA Jul 06 11:59:31 ruskie, Apple accommodated that Jul 06 11:59:31 With the iPhone 4 Jul 06 11:59:45 DocScrutinizer: with what? Jul 06 11:59:47 only that they're carrier-locked like fuck Jul 06 12:00:05 Appiah: fingernail, match, toothpick... Jul 06 12:00:18 doc: stylus! Jul 06 12:00:23 does not really move.. Jul 06 12:00:23 yeah! Jul 06 12:00:45 Appiah: let it check at a competent repair store Jul 06 12:00:45 Hurrian: :D Jul 06 12:01:04 Appiah: ask your dealer about warranty swap Jul 06 12:01:17 yes I will Jul 06 12:01:21 Appiah: make sure you get *your N900* back Jul 06 12:01:24 like I said Jul 06 12:01:28 uses for the N900 stylus: drawing in MyPaint, using the horribly-hildonized connection settings menu, and poking people Jul 06 12:01:34 If they wont fix it , send it back , dont replace Jul 06 12:01:39 Hurrian, I thought they used some odd freqs as well Jul 06 12:01:54 well wish me luck Jul 06 12:02:00 atleast read alot about your phone most likely won't work in japan type stories Jul 06 12:02:42 ruskie, should still at least be GSM Jul 06 12:02:55 so basic service Jul 06 12:03:01 yes Jul 06 12:03:20 friend of mine that is now living and working there bought a LiMO phone Jul 06 12:03:35 and it seems they have quite selection of those from various operators as well Jul 06 12:04:23 IIRC in Japan you have to register your IMEI to carrier Jul 06 12:04:36 Doc - it's SIM registration Jul 06 12:04:37 so NO imported 'alien' phone will work Jul 06 12:05:24 IIRC that's how they keep their markets clean in Japan and Korea Jul 06 12:05:59 and probably makes imeis a high value target Jul 06 12:06:00 it's even a *crime* to try and forge IMEI to make your unregistered phone work Jul 06 12:06:11 legal registered ones that is Jul 06 12:06:36 are ~200 bucks if you get at all, again IIRC Jul 06 12:06:39 DocScrutinizer : >implying IMEI forging isnt illegal in a large portion of the world Jul 06 12:07:05 * RST38h isn't sure that the JP situation can be called "a market" Jul 06 12:07:14 Too heavily regulated, to believe you Jul 06 12:07:38 Hurrian: remember the "IMEI 3645***345" line on that NOKLA phone yesterday? Jul 06 12:07:48 yeah Jul 06 12:08:25 Hurrian: I guess that's the kind of IMEI forging you get sued for in Korea and Japan Jul 06 12:09:02 docscrutinizer, my gov't had a huge problem reprogramming the cheap crap phones you buy from China Jul 06 12:09:13 on a side note, it is a PITA to reprogram IMEI on anything but chinese phones Jul 06 12:09:36 carriers have their own phones that are registered OOTB. If you import your phone, you need to ask them to register it, and either it's prohibitively expensive or they outright refuse to do Jul 06 12:09:52 iirc, nokia phones require a baseband replacement for changing IMEI Jul 06 12:10:14 * ruskie tries to recall what he wanted to take a look at... Jul 06 12:10:15 for sure not Jul 06 12:10:46 there's always a way to flash a new IMEI usually Jul 06 12:11:03 you just need the signing key ;-D Jul 06 12:12:04 most people in my country just say screw that and obtain some cheap BB5 phone Jul 06 12:13:21 eh, i remember IMEI changing used to be profitable with older baseband chips from different vendors Jul 06 12:13:29 now it's all fucking locked down ;) Jul 06 12:13:56 sometimes, it's even in ROM (although it's a side effect of preventing unlocking) Jul 06 12:16:11 on a side note, i wonder how people spend $500 on a phone and have it constrained to cdma Jul 06 12:16:50 shouldn't it be still possible transitioning between cdma operators? Jul 06 12:16:54 just harder? Jul 06 12:17:08 ruskie, not every country has CDMA Jul 06 12:17:20 ruskie, the point is prolly that there're hardly any cdma operators Jul 06 12:17:48 also, you're f---d if the cdma operator doesnt want to register your meid Jul 06 12:18:54 we are talking about cdma2000 based network ala Verizon? Jul 06 12:19:04 yes. Jul 06 12:19:22 although, cdma operators have you at their mercy if you want to switch Jul 06 12:19:40 well gsm operators had you at their mercy as well really Jul 06 12:19:51 with cell locking to network and such Jul 06 12:20:24 ruskie, at least you can unlock and transfer to another network by popping in a new SIMN Jul 06 12:20:49 you can't unlock if it's sim locked to the originator network Jul 06 12:20:57 some operators even give you the unlock code or the software can be unlocked by some speshal flashing jig Jul 06 12:21:12 they either need to unlock it for you or yeah you need to unlock it some way Jul 06 12:21:22 it's different for every manufacturer tho Jul 06 12:21:37 some can be unlocked in system software, some need srs hax Jul 06 12:21:38 around here they charged quite a premium to unlock phones Jul 06 12:21:48 ruskie, $10 around here isnt bad Jul 06 12:22:07 now iirc it's all free Jul 06 12:22:20 but I've stopped buying on-contract phones Jul 06 12:22:31 only bought one... and not really worth it Jul 06 12:22:46 if you lurk around a certain forum, they'll freely give out cracked versions of unlocker apps Jul 06 12:23:05 which are a b**** to find anywhere else Jul 06 12:23:24 @ruskie, one operator sells sim locked devices in kiosks Jul 06 12:23:34 I rather pay the manufacturer the pure price for the device than pay the operator a 160 markup for the device Jul 06 12:23:37 whee cheap devices... oh wait it's simlocked Jul 06 12:23:51 basically, prepaid simlock (lol) Jul 06 12:23:54 it's sort of suprising that the idea of detachable sim cards was ever implemented Jul 06 12:24:08 I think all prepaid and mobile internet devices around here are simlocked Jul 06 12:24:09 wouldn't the operators have been much happier had it not been, I wonder Jul 06 12:24:14 because they sell them as a "package" Jul 06 12:24:24 what usually happens is that people take them to unlock shops Jul 06 12:24:45 flux , prolly was a time when operators were less evil Jul 06 12:24:48 flux, wouldn't know... never discussed this with anyone in the business Jul 06 12:24:49 contract phones in the uk are reasonably worthwhile if you actually use it, and getting non locked devices is easy on all carriers Jul 06 12:25:32 hmm, i still remember the time when SMS was charged $0 and calls were charged out. the. ass. Jul 06 12:25:43 unless the operator forces me I don't plan on changing my package choice simply because I have no need for paying 2 eurs extra so I can get 50 minutes free/month Jul 06 12:26:01 considering I don't even remotely use up that many minutes Jul 06 12:37:02 just left my n900 to the store, I did leave a message in the description of the error that I dont want a n8 replacement Jul 06 12:37:27 not that the people in the store had any idea on what I was talking about. But now I just have to wait about 8 weeks and see Jul 06 12:37:48 fun Jul 06 12:41:20 woo, n950 order being processed Jul 06 12:41:54 sad panda :( Jul 06 12:41:57 :p Jul 06 12:42:11 ieatlint when did your launchpad account got active? Jul 06 12:44:23 march Jul 06 12:44:55 first time it's been useful actually, heh Jul 06 12:45:02 glad it finally paid off :P Jul 06 12:45:42 Holey shite Jul 06 12:45:52 Some progress - my Launchpad account has been approved Jul 06 12:46:34 march.. Jul 06 12:47:09 mine today, i hope i wont wait that long before mine gets useful :) Jul 06 12:47:45 Still can't access any of the areas though Jul 06 12:48:09 they are empty anyway Jul 06 12:48:28 yeah, hence my comment on how useful it is Jul 06 12:48:43 if you go to "support center" there is a "device distribution" tab Jul 06 12:49:01 but it was always empty for me... i got sent an email telling me an n950 was waiting for me Jul 06 12:50:11 Everyone's launchpad account is being approved Jul 06 12:50:14 Except mine :( Jul 06 12:50:28 I should have been right at the top Jul 06 12:50:30 alterego, heh, mine only just got approved. Hold on tight! :p Jul 06 12:50:32 well, at least you were selected to have an n950 :) Jul 06 12:50:37 And I held an N950 last night .. And it was sooooo sweeeet .. Jul 06 12:50:44 there are much more people that weren't selected :) Jul 06 12:50:51 Pfft Jul 06 12:50:51 alterego, you should have just taken it :\ :p Jul 06 12:51:01 Termana: they were going to give it to me. Jul 06 12:51:10 I know Jul 06 12:51:11 But I had to turn it down, it's kinda too late to cancel the DDP stuff. Jul 06 12:52:24 otoh, I was kinda right about today being the day :) Jul 06 12:52:30 Though probably not for me :P Jul 06 12:54:32 alterego: Mine was approved about 5 minutes ago Jul 06 12:54:57 is launchpad useful for other than perhaps getting an n950?-) Jul 06 12:54:58 Nice Jul 06 12:55:11 alterego: There is still hope for you Jul 06 12:55:30 flux: it's useful for getting pre-release hardware if you're a developer, the DDP is a prize in the form of an N950 _and_ quick launchpad verification :) Jul 06 12:55:39 I really can't justify trying to get a n950... not even remotely interested in developing for it Jul 06 12:55:53 Android fanboy? Jul 06 12:56:08 you wish Jul 06 12:56:12 to honest Jul 06 12:56:24 Eh? Jul 06 12:56:34 Why would I care what you prefered to develop for? Jul 06 12:56:45 alterego, I don't code much, what I do code tends to be not even user visible most of the time Jul 06 12:56:58 m'hmm Jul 06 12:57:00 I mostly hack on existing stuff Jul 06 12:57:01 alterego, I'm not sure whether being verified for launchpad is really a *prize* except for the explicit purpose of getting the N950 :P Jul 06 12:57:11 You probably wouldn't be eledgible then :P Jul 06 12:57:27 alterego, as said to honest to lie about the true purpose Jul 06 12:57:30 Termana: that depends if you want to get other devices from Nokia to test your stuff on Jul 06 12:57:59 else I'd just spin out stuff about porting whatever things to it and so on Jul 06 12:58:29 Well, if you're capable you could have just applied and ported some apps or something. Jul 06 12:58:32 Worth it imo Jul 06 13:04:37 ok, finally DHL tracking Jul 06 13:05:36 Nokia N8xx concept.. http://www.coroflot.com/ultrajjo/nokia-concept-smartphone/4 Jul 06 13:08:29 * cpscotti out of launchpad so far.. Will try to stop checking every 3(0) mins. Jul 06 13:08:36 ughh Jul 06 13:09:37 cpscotti, you'll get an email now when it's ready Jul 06 13:09:51 alterego: the individuals Launchpad mebership seems to generally NOT allow you to receive any pre-release hw Jul 06 13:10:51 Hmm that's strange Jul 06 13:10:58 They've locked me out of launchpad :p Jul 06 13:11:18 I wasn't exactly easy to find out why DDP is empty for me, but finally somebody pointed me to a little word like "corporate" when Launchpad description explained about hw for developers Jul 06 13:11:32 Hmm Jul 06 13:11:41 err Jul 06 13:11:50 nevermind, clicked the wrong link I think Jul 06 13:12:27 Termana, hope so.. otherwise veins in my brain will start to act weird a blow up Jul 06 13:12:40 so your individual launchpad account is really mostly void Jul 06 13:13:07 DocScrutinizer, do you mean that account type 'Individual' isn't suitable for those who in the n950 receiving list? Jul 06 13:13:28 you have access to sales balance of Q2/Q3/2010 or sth Jul 06 13:13:50 divan: no, it's the correct account for N950 Jul 06 13:13:52 Neat, obs support for Harmattan :) Jul 06 13:13:57 * alterego attempts to build something. Jul 06 13:14:26 divan: but there were zero other devices available via that DDP page Jul 06 13:14:36 * ruskie attempts to not melt in this heat Jul 06 13:15:01 DocScrutinizer, ok. The absence of any news/updates make me a bit unsure if I applied correctly. Jul 06 13:15:30 divan: I know that feeling Jul 06 13:15:48 divan: you got a mail from quim "ACCEPTED"? Jul 06 13:16:02 DocScrutinizer, yep, and replied with my developer ID. Jul 06 13:16:18 divan: me too, lets stick together ;) Jul 06 13:16:47 then just wait until your device gets available. You'll receive a mail and device will show up on URL https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 Jul 06 13:16:47 There's probably just under another our of Finnish work time left .. Jul 06 13:17:13 Though some people reported getting launchpad access over night. Jul 06 13:17:18 * alterego makes an egg sandwich Jul 06 13:17:33 * lardman shivers after coming out of a -8C room Jul 06 13:17:41 hmm, still no email Jul 06 13:17:47 * javispedro wants to be in that -8C room Jul 06 13:17:52 lol Jul 06 13:17:58 * ruskie wants to be in a 20C or lower room... Jul 06 13:17:59 got nippy after 5 min Jul 06 13:18:06 * lardman heads to a meeting Jul 06 13:20:21 * divan got completely soaked today in the rain. Jul 06 13:20:42 * DocScrutinizer feels not exactly comfortable with being the only(?) one who got a device shipped today Jul 06 13:20:57 must be wrong Jul 06 13:21:16 I wonder if konttori... Jul 06 13:21:21 It's quite irritating having Maemo reboot in the middle of the night and uboot default to MeeGo. Jul 06 13:21:29 No programs! Jul 06 13:21:39 GAN900: HAH Jul 06 13:21:51 GAN900: that's clearly a flaw in uBoot Jul 06 13:21:58 this MUST get sticky Jul 06 13:22:00 No programs! Jul 06 13:22:42 GAN900: rename the uBoot.menu(?) file on uSD Jul 06 13:22:44 ? Jul 06 13:23:04 DocScrutinizer: your guardian angel clearly works for nokia. Jul 06 13:23:29 javispedro: looks like. o.O I wonder how I earned that Jul 06 13:24:44 always seemed like the majority of Nokians rather dislike me, for being a bit "asperger" Jul 06 13:24:49 No programs! Jul 06 13:24:55 Heh Jul 06 13:25:04 DocScrutinizer: the keyword these days is "fringe", as coined by qgil Jul 06 13:25:04 hey lol dont get mad at me Jul 06 13:25:22 Dunham Jul 06 13:25:39 but anyone wanna trade their n8 for my n900 Jul 06 13:26:00 we need a #meego-fringe channel, best way to describe what we'd do there. Jul 06 13:26:45 javispedro: you think fringe is a positive attribute now? Jul 06 13:26:51 * alterego branches meego-terminal to add multiwindow support. Jul 06 13:26:56 DocScrutinizer: definitely... Jul 06 13:27:02 ok Jul 06 13:27:18 I think I'm definitely fringe ;-P Jul 06 13:27:38 always been Jul 06 13:27:44 I remember the first days of Fringe when people noticed "Artificial Intelligence" appeared on the list of fringe sciences ;) Jul 06 13:27:56 Heh Jul 06 13:28:18 my uni's dept. of software was not amused :) Jul 06 13:28:26 so does anyone here actually care about my efforts to make the N900 better? Jul 06 13:28:32 through improvements to Fremantle Jul 06 13:28:38 hmm, is intelligence a science, after all? Jul 06 13:28:59 jonwil, I'm sure there is someone Jul 06 13:29:17 A lot of us are just excited about the N9/N950 Jul 06 13:29:24 jonwil: DEFINITELY!!! how can you ask such things? Jul 06 13:29:28 O. M. G. Jul 06 13:29:30 and DocScrutinizer is too worried about what people think of him Jul 06 13:29:53 Nokia is apologising to me for delaying my Launchpad application Jul 06 13:30:14 ... and I'm in! Jul 06 13:30:20 javispedro, Nokia... apologising? Screenshot that stuff! Jul 06 13:30:21 Termana: I'm never worried about what people think about me. Otherwise I wouldn't know where to stop worrying Jul 06 13:30:22 :p Jul 06 13:31:04 Termana, do you ever sleep? Jul 06 13:31:16 I would say that the N900 is a BETTER piece of hardware than either the N950 or the N9 Jul 06 13:31:20 MohammadAG, hell nah. It's only 11pm here Jul 06 13:31:37 I'm in, I'm in! /me clicks URLs around like crazy Jul 06 13:31:49 jonwil: depending on requirement specs I tend to agree mostly Jul 06 13:32:16 The main reason I consider the N900 to be so good is that the touchscreen is BETTER than any other TS I have ever used Jul 06 13:32:22 including that on the iPhone and the HTC Desire Jul 06 13:32:31 jonwil, even though I'll get N950, I bought the second N900 last week. Cause I'm in doubt that we'll have a kind of a such great device in the feature. Jul 06 13:32:46 jonwil: and N950 comes with c-ts which I *hate* Jul 06 13:32:55 so it seems that n9(50) has new terminal app. Anyone knows if it is opensource and if it would possible to port it to N900? Jul 06 13:33:13 divan: ++ Jul 06 13:33:17 petteri: It is in gitorious Jul 06 13:33:26 fiferboy_: do you have link? Jul 06 13:33:28 I think it is QML based, so probably workable for N900 Jul 06 13:33:37 it cannot be fully qml based Jul 06 13:33:46 https://gitorious.org/meego-terminal Jul 06 13:33:52 javispedro: Probably not fully, no Jul 06 13:33:53 I'd be surprised if it is =) Jul 06 13:33:56 thanks, I will take a look Jul 06 13:34:36 I would be impressed if it was Jul 06 13:34:39 ah, so it is based on kterminal Jul 06 13:34:44 *kconsole Jul 06 13:34:46 Actually, looks like pyqt4 is used for the interface Jul 06 13:34:54 ew Jul 06 13:35:10 Yesterday I said it could only get worse if javispedro got one too--now it is!! Jul 06 13:35:24 he got one? Jul 06 13:35:45 javispedro: now https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 should work for you... To get either nice "internal error" OR... Jul 06 13:35:53 MohammadAG, not yet. He got his launchpad account Jul 06 13:36:02 do i understand it right that meego only will use pyside instead pyqt? Jul 06 13:36:41 MohammadAG: I got an email about LP (blabla vast number of applications - I think this is because of the spam I sent ;) ) , but I cannot yet enter LP with my account :S Jul 06 13:36:53 maybe I should logout -> login Jul 06 13:36:57 javispedro, try that Jul 06 13:37:03 logout/login worked for me Jul 06 13:37:09 javispedro: indeed Jul 06 13:37:19 where does once access their launchpad account? Jul 06 13:37:32 no deal :( Jul 06 13:37:38 MohammadAG: lower left "develper prog" Jul 06 13:37:39 * divan got approved on launchpad program just now. Jul 06 13:37:48 MohammadAG, https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/ Jul 06 13:37:50 I wish they'd add a N950 instantly Jul 06 13:38:01 javispedro, just give it 5 minutes then Jul 06 13:38:01 oh Jul 06 13:38:06 it is listed in My programs Jul 06 13:38:07 in My Programs on http://www.developer.nokia.com/Profile/premium_profile.xhtml page there is 'Launchpad for individuals' appeared. Jul 06 13:38:10 You do not have the required access rights to the page you were trying to access. Please see our Developer Programs pages for further details about our offering. Jul 06 13:38:20 same as MohammadAG. Jul 06 13:38:22 javispedro: log out ALL browser tabs Jul 06 13:38:23 but it's in my programs Jul 06 13:38:29 * jonwil wishes mce wasnt so damn complex :( Jul 06 13:38:38 And in https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP?sfdc.tabName=01r20000000L8iX I see the tab 'Device distribution' Jul 06 13:38:52 SPLIT Jul 06 13:38:58 * javispedro was going to try OBS, so I can wait Jul 06 13:39:22 I just want it shipped before the weekend :( Jul 06 13:39:26 DocScrutinizer, got a DHL number? Jul 06 13:39:32 yup Jul 06 13:39:43 GeneralAntilles: MWAHAHAHA, but if they're doing it in reverse arrival order, and I'm approved already, your approval is soon. Start warming your stereo... Jul 06 13:40:11 GeneralAntilles: Too bad the approval doesn't trigger your setup Jul 06 13:40:17 n950!!!! Jul 06 13:40:26 omg thats so cool Jul 06 13:40:31 did any of you already start to port your maemo apps to meego? Jul 06 13:40:46 patrick dempsy used one also Jul 06 13:40:49 fiferboy_: but the N950 is here mail will Jul 06 13:40:54 fiferboy_: even if you ignore LP status Jul 06 13:41:33 jonwil: center on the plugins! Jul 06 13:41:39 actually you don't need either of those mails Jul 06 13:41:46 Even the plugins are damn complex Jul 06 13:41:49 like the display driver one Jul 06 13:42:03 javispedro: Yes, unless it goes to spam Jul 06 13:42:05 i.e. libdisplay.so Jul 06 13:42:19 but keep the URL of your order confirmation webpage - only way to access it later! Jul 06 13:42:23 jonwil: btw, I remember that MohammadAG found that vibra has a special d-bus api for manually triggering the vibrator (so that mce does not reset it), so I'm no longer interested in vibra :P Jul 06 13:42:34 well, not THAT interested. Jul 06 13:42:38 Well, if I hopefully get launchpad tomorrow, then maybe I am still in with a chance to get t he N950 this weekend .. Jul 06 13:42:46 well I intend to reverse engineer what the vibrator plugin does Jul 06 13:42:54 jonwil: what does libdisplay.so? Jul 06 13:43:03 libdisplay.so handles display brightness Jul 06 13:43:13 jonwil: you know the fremantle plugin<->mce api? Jul 06 13:43:15 jonwil: figured that out yet? Jul 06 13:43:17 :P Jul 06 13:43:19 and yes I do Jul 06 13:43:21 But that's probably wishful thinking .. Jul 06 13:43:40 DocScrutinizer: Can you tell where the device ships from? Jul 06 13:43:48 epoo Jul 06 13:44:08 The real deal Jul 06 13:44:10 alterego: my past experience tells me that if you are in europe, thursday 12:00 should be latest if you want the device on friday. Jul 06 13:44:18 jonwil: i don't need a complete reverse engineer of libdisplay.so i just need to know: when the display brightness is changed, where does it create a socket to, and what data does it send Jul 06 13:44:24 err not really Jul 06 13:44:26 jonwil: i can easily figure it out once i get a device i think Jul 06 13:44:28 HEL Jul 06 13:44:29 javispedro: Saturday is fine with me actually. Jul 06 13:44:31 So I don't mind :) Jul 06 13:44:53 ah well, there are some countries out there were people work on saturdays I bet ;) Jul 06 13:44:54 alterego, HA. Courier no deliver on weekend silly boy. Jul 06 13:44:57 well I already reverse engineered it and will finish cloning it Jul 06 13:45:06 jonwil: ah, cool Jul 06 13:45:12 https://gitorious.org/qtbook/qtbook/blobs/master/systemnotification.cpp#line45 Jul 06 13:45:19 javispedro, ^ Jul 06 13:45:19 jonwil: :) send me what you have for that as soon as you're done Jul 06 13:45:21 Termana: they do for me. Jul 06 13:45:34 MohammadAG: was talking about fremantle vibra Jul 06 13:45:35 jonwil: what does libdisplay.so? Jul 06 13:45:40 I've had plenty of DHL deliveries on Saturdays .. Jul 06 13:45:43 MohammadAG: but maybe I'm confused Jul 06 13:45:49 jonwil: what does libdisplay.so? Jul 06 13:45:50 libdisplay.so handles display brightness Jul 06 13:45:58 ooh Jul 06 13:45:59 javispedro, line 61 Jul 06 13:46:00 alterego, I've been reading some experiences with DHL Australia. Apparently they get to to Australia quick and then it sits around for a couple of weeks here in Australia before they wonder wtf they are doing Jul 06 13:46:06 MohammadAG: yes, that's the one =) Jul 06 13:46:07 thnx Jul 06 13:46:17 MohammadAG: I used it in preenv since you found it. Jul 06 13:46:19 Termana: good job I'm not in Australia then :P Jul 06 13:46:25 :D Jul 06 13:46:29 Bloody lazy Aussies :P Jul 06 13:46:34 heh :p Jul 06 13:47:01 does QFeedbackHapticEffect work on Maemo 5? Jul 06 13:47:18 http://dudelol.com/img/microsoft-skype-skynet.png Jul 06 13:47:23 te what Jul 06 13:47:26 nothing yet :( Jul 06 13:48:01 hiemanshu, wb Jul 06 13:48:09 MohammadAG: via MCE vibra does not support any effect other than constant Jul 06 13:48:25 hey Termana Jul 06 13:48:41 javispedro, that's Qt Mobility :P Jul 06 13:48:50 well I intend to finish cloning the display plugin then I will post its code Jul 06 13:48:59 After that, I will reverse engineer some other things Jul 06 13:49:04 like the vibrator plugin Jul 06 13:49:08 MohammadAG: yes, but is it based on mce? or they bypass it in some secret way? Jul 06 13:49:26 I suspect it comes through mce Jul 06 13:49:46 on normal linux (&webos) vibra is an input ff device Jul 06 13:50:04 but changing that on maemo of course breaks mce.. Jul 06 13:50:12 heh, yet more reason for a vibra mce plugin clone ;) Jul 06 13:50:35 anyone wanna trade their n8 for my n900 Jul 06 13:50:36 javispedro: MCE doesn't support other than constant vib?? Jul 06 13:51:23 DocScrutinizer: note though that your definition of constant is potentially more simple than mine's Jul 06 13:51:40 yeah, probably Jul 06 13:51:49 my definition includes a "intensity" or similar which is of course implemented with a pwm, so by your definition probably not constant ;) Jul 06 13:51:56 DocScrutinizer: so nothing for me today, maybe tomorrow? :P Jul 06 13:52:00 constant patterns of any shape and number Jul 06 13:52:41 javispedro: see mce.ini Jul 06 13:53:03 I can confirm that the vibra plugin writes to /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_vibra/pulse Jul 06 13:53:19 yeah Jul 06 13:53:25 javispedro: /[VibraPatternRX51] Jul 06 13:53:40 Woo, LaunchPad. Jul 06 13:53:48 So looks like alterego likely has it. Jul 06 13:53:50 jonwil: but if you write to it, at the next screen touch or ~something seconds, vibra plugin resets. Jul 06 13:53:56 "With his Wednesday prediction" Jul 06 13:54:04 GeneralAntilles: :) Jul 06 13:54:09 GeneralAntilles: everyone except me .. Jul 06 13:54:11 javispedro: yes Jul 06 13:54:22 What's the hardware page link? Jul 06 13:54:52 javispedro: MCE is missing a "keep your sticky fingers off $subsystem!" command Jul 06 13:54:53 DocScrutinizer: can't look at the file atm, n900 does not respond to ssh for some reason and I can't be arsed to move ;) Jul 06 13:55:11 "Nokia Developer Member since 2001" Wow! Jul 06 13:55:16 it also reads dbus messages for req_vibrator_pattern_activate req_vibrator_pattern_deactivate req_vibrator_enable req_vibrator_disable req_start_manual_vibration req_stop_manual_vibration Jul 06 13:55:17 ~n950order is https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 Jul 06 13:55:18 MohammadAG: okay Jul 06 13:55:27 DocScrutinizer: but that's where the dbus call that MohammadAG found comes into play: it allows you set a given intensity for a given time, and mce won't do anything for that time. Jul 06 13:55:41 javispedro: http://paste.debian.net/122094/ Jul 06 13:55:42 you still do not have raw access, but anything is better than nothing. Jul 06 13:55:58 ~botsnak Jul 06 13:56:03 ~botsnack Jul 06 13:56:03 :), DocScrutinizer Jul 06 13:56:38 * cpscotti "Launchpad for individuals (06-Jul-2011–06-Jul-2012)", voilá! Jul 06 13:56:39 ~feed MohammadAG coffee Jul 06 13:56:40 * infobot gives MohammadAG coffee on a paper plate and seats MohammadAG on the park bench. Jul 06 13:57:31 * javispedro clears cookies and cache and retries LP.. Jul 06 13:57:32 cpscotti: not you too! Jul 06 13:57:34 WAAAAAH! Jul 06 13:57:54 Hmm.. Devices list in 'Device Distribution' page is empty. Is it ok? Device order should appear in some time, right? Jul 06 13:58:08 DocScrutinizer, coffee on a paper plate Jul 06 13:58:09 lol Jul 06 13:58:14 javispedro: if mce actually does nothing, then maybe you *get* raw access during that timespan Jul 06 13:58:29 hehe Jul 06 13:58:30 lol Jul 06 13:58:38 alterego: you haven't got it yet? Jul 06 13:58:45 DocScrutinizer: nah, I think it will try to keep resetting to the intensity you specified in call Jul 06 13:58:47 Nope Jul 06 13:58:48 but never tried tbh Jul 06 13:58:54 Looks like I'm the last now :P Jul 06 13:58:54 divan, that's how it's suppose to be until you get the email Jul 06 13:58:58 I doubt that Jul 06 13:59:01 GeneralAntilles: hey yeah, launchpad on mine too :P though still no device listed Jul 06 13:59:04 Termana, thanks. Jul 06 13:59:08 (not really have any game that does anything other than constant effects!) Jul 06 13:59:18 javispedro: can you decode that foo to a standard dbus-send call? Jul 06 13:59:23 * divan stopped worrying. Jul 06 14:00:07 * javispedro lols Jul 06 14:00:19 we already had this conversation =) Jul 06 14:00:20 divan: see Jul 06 14:00:20 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-02.log.html#t2011-03-02T02:30:17 Jul 06 14:00:24 ~n950order Jul 06 14:00:25 well, n950order is https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 Jul 06 14:00:26 DocScrutinizer, eww, I hate coffee Jul 06 14:00:33 ooh sorry Jul 06 14:00:36 ice coffee is different but normal coffee is eugh Jul 06 14:00:40 I bet there's a cock up with my application Jul 06 14:00:42 no devices shown though... probably they're doing it as we type.. haha lol Jul 06 14:00:46 virtually 4 months ago heh Jul 06 14:00:53 DocScrutinizer: I would love some coffee though Jul 06 14:00:56 DocScrutinizer, this links gives me an error "Unexpected error has occured. Please try again." Jul 06 14:00:58 * hiemanshu got drenched in the rain Jul 06 14:01:04 alterego, watch your language Jul 06 14:01:09 this channel is G rated Jul 06 14:01:17 G for gonads? Jul 06 14:01:20 groin? Jul 06 14:01:23 Groping? Jul 06 14:01:24 g+ Jul 06 14:01:39 yes, now I can get into lp Jul 06 14:01:43 G for Granny Jul 06 14:01:52 Free Microsoft App Hub registration Jul 06 14:01:53 ! Jul 06 14:02:00 time to /mkick then Jul 06 14:02:03 javispedro, that is the evil part Jul 06 14:02:09 lol @ RDA image: https://www.developer.nokia.com/pics/rda_structure_3.jpg Jul 06 14:02:10 javispedro: woo! Jul 06 14:02:17 it's an N900 and an N9 Jul 06 14:02:24 rm_work: N8 Jul 06 14:02:28 ah Jul 06 14:02:28 well Jul 06 14:02:36 well, does RDA even work with N900? Jul 06 14:02:37 javispedro: for one year Jul 06 14:02:43 rm_work: yes Jul 06 14:02:49 At least it used too .. Jul 06 14:02:50 interesting, never knew that Jul 06 14:02:55 would have been useful maybe Jul 06 14:03:08 RDA is useLESS Jul 06 14:03:10 javispedro: alas this call does nuttin here Jul 06 14:03:12 lol Jul 06 14:03:18 DocScrutinizer: you still on PR1.2? Jul 06 14:03:18 Termana: not really Jul 06 14:03:26 nah! Jul 06 14:03:36 This whole process seems to be just refreshing a new page in every step Jul 06 14:03:58 hiemanshu, It didn't work good at all. The concept is nice, but the implementation is crap IMO Jul 06 14:04:04 rm_work: N8 Jul 06 14:04:08 E7 actually Jul 06 14:04:16 Termana: worked perfect for me Jul 06 14:04:41 fiferboy: not really, the last step is 'Sleep/Sit outside your house and jump infront of every DHL van' Jul 06 14:04:43 hiemanshu, I had major delays, couldn't open apps, swiping was just as bad etc. Jul 06 14:04:50 Termana, it's because they're running 4 vms per device. Jul 06 14:05:05 hiemanshu: I thought it would be 'Refresh the tracking page to see if there has been any change' :{ Jul 06 14:05:08 GAN900: launchpad yet? Jul 06 14:05:14 hiemanshu: the last step is very described by today's xkcd ;) http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/delivery_notification.png Jul 06 14:05:24 divan: that's exactly what that link gives until your N950 shows up instead Jul 06 14:05:27 javispedro: Yes, very appropriate timing Jul 06 14:05:30 hiemanshu, just within the last 10 minutes. Jul 06 14:05:31 javispedro: done :P I wrote an app just to do that Jul 06 14:05:33 Who thinks the xkcd guy is getting an N950? :p Jul 06 14:05:44 ~coffee hiemanshu Jul 06 14:05:45 * infobot steals some of Guest39395's special coffee and gives it to hiemanshu on a silver platter. Jul 06 14:05:50 Termana: No, I think he is getting a sword Jul 06 14:06:04 GAN900: so accepted? Jul 06 14:06:25 DocScrutinizer, ok, thanks. Jul 06 14:06:27 the first package is a laptop Jul 06 14:06:32 No N950 yet, though. Jul 06 14:07:38 were the n950s posted ? Jul 06 14:08:27 javispedro: the funny part about that dbus call is it succeeds Jul 06 14:08:28 GAN900: what time did your email arrive saying you've got launchpad? Jul 06 14:08:46 DocScrutinizer: do not have my n900 around to test but I am quite confident it should work Jul 06 14:08:50 alterego: No emails for Launchpad acceptance Jul 06 14:08:51 alterego: there will no email Jul 06 14:08:55 +be Jul 06 14:09:14 Oh Jul 06 14:09:31 alterego: you'll have to check your developer page and see it listed Jul 06 14:09:32 So I just have to keep logging out and back in to developer.nokia.com until something appears? Jul 06 14:09:39 yeah Jul 06 14:09:41 alterego: That is why GAN's disco lights didn't go off Jul 06 14:09:42 Or wait for the "N950 ready for you" email I guess, Jul 06 14:09:46 well, you dont ahve to log out Jul 06 14:09:52 Oh Jul 06 14:09:54 alterego: just wait for the email Jul 06 14:10:11 because launchpad is nothing extra except microsoft app hub :P Jul 06 14:10:45 javispedro: lol yeah that happens to me ALL THE TIME. and i've tried to do that several times, too... though got lost trying to find their random sorting office in the middle of nowhere, or else it was closed anyway Jul 06 14:10:48 javispedro: Jul 06 14:10:50 IroN900:~# dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_start_manual_vibration int32:255 int32:1500 Jul 06 14:10:52 method return sender=:1.13 -> dest=:1.2388 reply_serial=2 Jul 06 14:10:54 though i called and they said they actually could give it to me Jul 06 14:10:55 nuttin Jul 06 14:11:31 For me, in d.n.c -> settings -> developer account -> my programs, it says "Launchpad for individuals (06-Jul-2011–06-Jul-2012)" Jul 06 14:11:41 i have a dhl office at 3 minute walking distance, so going to it is very tempting ;) Jul 06 14:12:00 IroN900:~# mce --version Jul 06 14:12:02 mce v1.8.126 Jul 06 14:12:03 IroN900:~# uname -a Jul 06 14:12:05 Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown Jul 06 14:12:22 javispedro: and the vib works, evidently Jul 06 14:12:34 just not with this dbus call Jul 06 14:12:37 javispedro: heh, and what? Waiting outside and checking every van? Jul 06 14:13:31 DocScrutinizer, works for me Jul 06 14:13:57 Q: Is it possible to install CSSU in scratchbox ? Jul 06 14:13:58 the exact line I pasted above? Jul 06 14:14:14 oooh wait, under 29999? Jul 06 14:14:38 nah, system bus Jul 06 14:14:48 dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_start_manual_vibration int32:255 int32:1500 Jul 06 14:14:51 Well, it's after working hours in Finland now I guess, so maybe I'll get lucky tomorrow :( Jul 06 14:14:51 alterego: encamping right there and refusing to leave until they hand me MY DEVICE!! Jul 06 14:14:52 works fine for me Jul 06 14:15:13 javispedro: xkcd.com Jul 06 14:15:23 javispedro: rather than sitting at home on a nice comfy sofa waiting for them to deliver it to you? :P Jul 06 14:15:41 * javispedro wishes he could sit at a comfy sofa, when the courier comes in I will be at uni office. Jul 06 14:16:02 3hours without my n900 and I got ... (the only?`) a android phone that does not have exchange support, so I have to buy (or run limited trials) to get my mail and calender Jul 06 14:16:06 I miss it already Jul 06 14:16:23 v13: not unless you build the packages yourself Jul 06 14:16:30 the cssu repo only hase armel packages Jul 06 14:16:36 arg... thnks :) Jul 06 14:16:37 s/hase/has/ Jul 06 14:16:37 merlin1991 meant: the cssu repo only has armel packages Jul 06 14:17:25 javispedro, I can pick it up for you Jul 06 14:17:29 Well, guess that means I'm not getting any new tech this week :( Jul 06 14:17:41 Not even the N8 has been dispatched yet. Jul 06 14:17:52 alterego: you ordered an N8? Jul 06 14:17:56 MohammadAG: javispedro: fails for me. Now what? Jul 06 14:18:11 hiemanshu: I'm being sent one to port some apps to Jul 06 14:18:18 alterego: damn you Jul 06 14:18:26 Is there any information regarding this N8 replacement for n900 ? Jul 06 14:18:28 DocScrutinizer: now you wait for jonwil to decipher mce's mysteries. Jul 06 14:18:33 ;P Jul 06 14:18:34 haha Jul 06 14:18:47 Appiah: if you send off your N900 for warranty repairs, there's a good chance you'll get an N8 back .. Jul 06 14:19:09 I wonder if I should send a pattern_deactivate for my xchat click Jul 06 14:19:12 courtesy "upgrade" .. Jul 06 14:19:36 but there is like no official annoucment regarding this shit? Jul 06 14:19:37 always thought patterns time out and good Jul 06 14:20:24 Appiah: why would there be? Jul 06 14:20:41 Appiah: it's announced in their Warranty T&C documentation Jul 06 14:21:27 NOPE Jul 06 14:21:39 refuses to work for me Jul 06 14:21:52 DocScrutinizer: what problem to you have ? Jul 06 14:22:08 dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_start_manual_vibration int32:255 int32:1500 Jul 06 14:22:12 does nothing here Jul 06 14:22:30 nothing here too Jul 06 14:22:37 why should it do somethings ? Jul 06 14:22:40 hm? Jul 06 14:22:40 (is there any doc?) Jul 06 14:22:42 javispedro and MohammadAG claim it works for them Jul 06 14:22:50 and jflatt. Jul 06 14:23:08 nothing. both as root & as user Jul 06 14:23:25 javispedro: do you have ts-click enabled? Jul 06 14:23:29 yes Jul 06 14:23:32 I don't Jul 06 14:23:32 is there any trusted info on the total count of N950 manufactured? Jul 06 14:23:34 :-S Jul 06 14:23:48 and it works for sociality users Jul 06 14:23:56 ther must be some reason why it doesn't work here Jul 06 14:23:57 divan, over 9000! Jul 06 14:23:59 DocScrutinizer: what are you really trying to do? :-) Jul 06 14:24:06 * javispedro ponders where the hell I can find an obs client for gentoo.. Jul 06 14:24:09 Termana, how do you know? Jul 06 14:24:15 docs: it doesn't work for me either Jul 06 14:24:25 v13: find out about that vib dbus cmd Jul 06 14:24:39 I don't - it was a joke Jul 06 14:24:41 javispedro: Get the git repo and compile it? Jul 06 14:24:49 isn't mce only able to play pre-defined vibs ? Jul 06 14:25:08 oooooooooooh Jul 06 14:25:10 allegedly not Jul 06 14:25:16 it's not "obs client" but "osc client" Jul 06 14:25:21 X-Fade: what does OSC mean? Jul 06 14:25:48 javispedro: openbuild service client :) Jul 06 14:25:49 just a quick question: my repositories should just say fremantle or fremantle-1.3? Jul 06 14:26:01 X-Fade: makes sense :) ta! Jul 06 14:26:32 javispedro: MohammadAG: what's your mce and kernel version? Jul 06 14:26:43 Termana, thanks, now I know new mem 'Over 9000' :) Jul 06 14:26:50 same as mine above? Jul 06 14:27:03 Report bugs to Jul 06 14:27:04 Segmentation fault Jul 06 14:27:04 :LMFAO Jul 06 14:27:09 yo Jul 06 14:27:18 same here Jul 06 14:27:26 Nokia-N900:~# mce --version Jul 06 14:27:26 mce v1.8.126 Jul 06 14:27:26 Written by David Weinehall. Jul 06 14:27:26 Copyright (C) 2004-2009 Nokia Corporation. All rights reserved. Jul 06 14:27:26 Segmentation fault Jul 06 14:27:45 # mce --version Jul 06 14:27:45 mce v1.8.126 Jul 06 14:28:06 all the same Jul 06 14:28:44 Nokia-N900:~# dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_start_manual_vibration int32:255 int32:1500 Jul 06 14:28:45 method return sender=:1.12 -> dest=:1.225 reply_serial=2 Jul 06 14:29:39 exactly Jul 06 14:29:53 making a tmo account :) just to get rid of my n900 Jul 06 14:29:55 stupid q: do you all have the device connected with usb ? Jul 06 14:30:00 (regarding the vib) Jul 06 14:30:20 well, method return sender=:1.13 -> dest=:1.2421 reply_serial=2 Jul 06 14:30:37 with or without a USB, it works Jul 06 14:31:00 no USB here Jul 06 14:31:18 pauly: want to sell yours? Jul 06 14:31:31 try restarting mce Jul 06 14:31:54 k Jul 06 14:32:29 same Jul 06 14:34:34 so its 5.30 there, and probably time for them to leave in .fi, nothing today Jul 06 14:34:42 * hiemanshu shoots DocScrutinizer and everyone who got an email today Jul 06 14:34:49 no programs! Jul 06 14:35:05 oh, yes programs ;P Jul 06 14:35:24 javispedro: did you get anything yet? Jul 06 14:35:36 can access LP, but no N950. Jul 06 14:35:50 merlin1991: im looking to trade for n8 or sell Jul 06 14:36:05 javispedro: ah Jul 06 14:36:29 fry the bootloader Jul 06 14:36:29 depending how much you want for it and from where you would ship it I might be interested Jul 06 14:36:32 send to Nokia service Jul 06 14:36:36 profit Jul 06 14:36:40 lol Jul 06 14:36:54 MohammadAG: you forgot the ????? line to fit the scheme Jul 06 14:36:56 what? after all they are replacing N900s for N8s Jul 06 14:37:33 afair, vibra was programmable too. do you remember to sys location for its programming ? Jul 06 14:37:38 hmm, F5 still not producing the desired results Jul 06 14:38:14 lardman: change the key, KTHXBYE :P Jul 06 14:38:34 merlin1991: 300 usd Jul 06 14:38:41 usa md Jul 06 14:38:45 well it refreshes the page, just doesn't give me what I want Jul 06 14:39:18 * gri also has an empty list :( Jul 06 14:39:18 lardman: well, its end of the end at .fi, so nothing today sadly Jul 06 14:39:31 :( Jul 06 14:39:41 ah well, at least some are trickling out slowly Jul 06 14:39:48 pauly: usa is lil bad on shipping to austria :P Jul 06 14:39:52 lardman: wait for tomorrow, also we might be the top at the list Jul 06 14:39:56 I wonder if there's a link between Launchpad date and device order Jul 06 14:40:12 uh oh lol Jul 06 14:40:29 merlin1991: do u want it? Jul 06 14:40:42 hmm, perhaps not, only Docscrutinizer of the normal route people Jul 06 14:40:46 lardman: "I have now activated your membership. Next the meego team will grant you access to N950 after which you can order the device. Jul 06 14:40:47 You will get an email notification about it. " Jul 06 14:40:48 any idea what the shipping would come to? Jul 06 14:40:50 so no link? Jul 06 14:40:56 merlin1991: it's free Jul 06 14:41:11 alterego: lol, learn to read :P Jul 06 14:41:24 gri: who was that email from? Jul 06 14:41:43 I didn't get one of those, but my Launchpad was activated yesterday Jul 06 14:41:47 alterego: I'd like to see the person who sells something in the usa and ships it for free to europe, suuure :D Jul 06 14:42:04 lardman: what?? :( Jul 06 14:42:18 lardman: Nora, Developer Experience and Marketplace, Device Access Services Jul 06 14:42:20 so we can expect a two-day delay since LP activation to device =) Jul 06 14:42:55 javispedro: mine was activated yesterday, so I'll see the device tomorrow Jul 06 14:42:59 hoping for it :P Jul 06 14:43:06 yes, keep the optimism. Jul 06 14:43:13 lardman: But I got contacted to change settings before activation .. thats why you might not get the mail as you had not to change anything Jul 06 14:43:20 ah ok Jul 06 14:43:51 javispedro: Judging by Doc's experience it might be 4 months ;) Jul 06 14:44:22 well, judging from my experience in LP, application -> approval took 6 months. Jul 06 14:44:40 Ah, well I feel special at only 1 day then Jul 06 14:44:50 javispedro: Mine seems to have been activated today. no mail. Jul 06 14:44:51 or perhaps 2, can't remember exactly Jul 06 14:45:17 Oh I thought we were stll talking about the devkit DDP Jul 06 14:45:30 javispedro: Judging from the 6-Jul-2011 - 6-Jul-2012 dates Jul 06 14:45:40 Docscrutinizer: ping Jul 06 14:46:03 alterego: we are sort of, but moved off topic to Launchpad approvals I think Jul 06 14:46:18 * alterego yawns Jul 06 14:46:42 lardman: learn to read Jul 06 14:46:50 dammit, why doesn't anyone read backlogs :P Jul 06 14:46:58 hiemanshu: too long Jul 06 14:47:07 tl;dr Jul 06 14:47:14 :P Jul 06 14:47:22 * lardman has no clue what that means Jul 06 14:47:30 lardman: too long; didn't read Jul 06 14:47:41 ah, thanks Jul 06 14:48:00 merlin1991: btw this n900 can overclock to 1100 mhz Jul 06 14:48:16 pauly: thats a nice way to kill your phone Jul 06 14:48:21 hiemanshu: nod Jul 06 14:48:23 lardman: http://tinyurl.com/c8lrbb :P Jul 06 14:48:51 only did it to try it, i dont like power kernel Jul 06 14:49:01 lardman: pong Jul 06 14:49:14 panorama doesnt work with .ower kernel Jul 06 14:49:31 hey DocScrutinizer, saw your project idea about location stuff - the cinema was the one you mentioned Jul 06 14:49:39 You could use Proximus for that Jul 06 14:49:41 as the backend Jul 06 14:50:17 location aware event triggers Jul 06 14:51:16 * alterego gets bored Jul 06 14:51:21 Think I'm gonna play around with some QML Jul 06 14:51:39 anyway I'm interested in the response that gri got, that it's the Meego team who now somehow enable each Launchpad account to get a device Jul 06 14:52:21 alterego: I'm finally playing around with QML Jul 06 14:52:26 or perhaps this has already been mentioned Jul 06 14:52:41 alterego: Do you find anchor layouts WAY easier to deal with than grid/column/row? Jul 06 14:52:52 fiferboy: yes Jul 06 14:53:02 alterego: watch BBT if you haven't watched, and if you have, rewatch it :P Jul 06 14:53:11 What's BBT? Jul 06 14:53:21 alterego: Big Bang Theory? Jul 06 14:53:25 Oh, right Jul 06 14:53:40 tbbt Jul 06 14:53:41 I'm finally making progress with my layout, now that I switched to anchors in the edit view Jul 06 14:55:07 DocScrutinizer: I need to push some more code to svn, some time event gubbins, am working on location stuff this evening Jul 06 14:55:26 lol svn Jul 06 14:57:12 svn is presumably funny? Jul 06 14:57:21 no, just sad Jul 06 14:57:35 I'll send it flowers Jul 06 14:58:10 lol, the meego harmattan debian policy manual defines and option that is called Maemo-Flags :D Jul 06 14:58:14 while you are at it, please fix it? Jul 06 14:58:45 hiemanshu: what's the problem? Jul 06 14:58:53 everything? Jul 06 14:59:01 works for me Jul 06 14:59:25 probably only for you :P Jul 06 15:00:15 ~lart Dell for only offering 6Gb of RAM Jul 06 15:00:16 * infobot beats Dell severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken for only offering 6Gb of RAM Jul 06 15:00:46 * hiemanshu quits trolling and goes to do something useful Jul 06 15:00:59 6GB? well, if its a subnotebook or netbook Jul 06 15:01:09 lardman: buy 8GB extra for 40GBP? Jul 06 15:01:19 Nah, full laptop with 64bit Win7 as standard Jul 06 15:01:19 lardman: It is cheap online. Jul 06 15:01:29 sure, just trying to save hassle Jul 06 15:01:46 lardman: And pay 600% more :) Jul 06 15:01:57 I also need an nVidia graphics card, which may be troublesome Jul 06 15:02:17 X-Fade: well if they give the option of 8Gb it's probably not so much more expensive than diy Jul 06 15:02:29 lardman: It is. Jul 06 15:02:41 lardman: I was looking for a XPS 15. Jul 06 15:02:50 lardman: Insane upgrade prices. Jul 06 15:03:03 really? Oh, ok, I guess I'm looking at the same device Jul 06 15:03:14 anyway seems to only offer ATi, so no-go Jul 06 15:03:28 lardman: XPS has nvidia. Jul 06 15:03:34 Actually this is a Vostro Notebook Jul 06 15:03:50 * lardman goes back to the start to see why Dell is trying to sell him this one then Jul 06 15:03:55 lardman: sounds interesting, I'll chat about it later with you. Have to run now Jul 06 15:04:13 DocScrutinizer: no internet at home, chat to Jaffa or I will catch you tomorrow Jul 06 15:04:22 np Jul 06 15:04:40 Doc, morning. I am trying to use VMWARE first Jul 06 15:04:40 lardman: never order a dell online, you'll get much much better prices via phone Jul 06 15:04:48 leave me a few links to catch up what's going on, please Jul 06 15:04:50 i'm afraid to destroy my linux system. Jul 06 15:04:55 I need to spec it and pass it to work to get a discount Jul 06 15:05:12 lardman: I for one got a free bag and 10% off on the online price Jul 06 15:05:45 DocScrutinizer: sure, https://wiki.maemo.org/Proximus and https://garage.maemo.org/projects/proximus/ though not much code in the repo yet as my netbook didn't want to connect to the work WLAN yesterday Jul 06 15:06:05 i so thought someone would want a n900 or even two cause i have one with broken screen broken usb Jul 06 15:07:28 how much Jul 06 15:08:07 also exactly how is usb broken Jul 06 15:08:12 What screen res do people think for a 15.6" screen? 1920x1080 seems awfully high Jul 06 15:08:26 lardman: Full HD or higher. Jul 06 15:08:34 lardman: i have a laptop like that Jul 06 15:08:36 love it Jul 06 15:08:43 1920x1200 :) Jul 06 15:08:47 writing must be minute on the screen Jul 06 15:08:47 lardman: mine is 1920x1200 now. Jul 06 15:08:48 i need good screen res to dev Jul 06 15:08:49 lardman: I've got a 15.3 at 1680x1200 Jul 06 15:08:55 lardman: 1600x900 at the minimum Jul 06 15:08:58 lardman: check dwimd Jul 06 15:09:02 wait, mine is the same as X-Fades :) Jul 06 15:09:11 * GeneralAntilles twiddles thumbs. Jul 06 15:09:14 1920x1200 on 15.3 Jul 06 15:09:16 lardman: orphaned but good basis I think Jul 06 15:09:16 right, high res it is by popular vote Jul 06 15:09:51 which laptop? Jul 06 15:09:51 Yeah, you can always increase font size. It just looks a lot better. (You should know that by now) :) Jul 06 15:10:02 one i have like that is a lenovo/thinkpad w510 Jul 06 15:10:29 X-Fade: I'm dev'ing on a Samsung n140 atm Jul 06 15:10:40 so anything higher resolution will be better Jul 06 15:11:26 lardman, IPS if you can find. Jul 06 15:11:29 Will help a lot. Jul 06 15:11:43 I have a 1600 x 900 at 14" Jul 06 15:12:10 MySpaez: well usb isnt on it and lcd cracked other n900 is good condition looking to trade for n8 or nice cash offer Jul 06 15:12:54 Hrm, says I'm a LaunchPad member, but I can't get into the LaunchPad page. Jul 06 15:13:12 GeneralAntilles: log out and back in Jul 06 15:13:22 Broken SSO Jul 06 15:13:23 Gotta love it. Jul 06 15:13:24 all i use the phone for is pics twitter and craigslist so why not have 12mp camera Jul 06 15:13:54 Maemo's better. Jul 06 15:14:05 pauly: then take a feature phone + camera :P Jul 06 15:14:10 bargain, 1181 excluding vat Jul 06 15:14:14 £ Jul 06 15:14:33 cameras re expensive and im not a pro Jul 06 15:14:34 lardman: So then you'll get it at around 900. Jul 06 15:14:51 plus i can directly upload my pics on a phone Jul 06 15:15:08 GeneralAntilles: Same here. I logged out and logged in multiple times. Is there any URL for launchpad other than that "Join Launchpad' link? Jul 06 15:15:50 lardman: I'm adding my 'comments' to https://wiki.maemo.org/Proximus Jul 06 15:15:58 https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad_for_individuals/ Jul 06 15:16:01 lardman: afk, ttyl o/ Jul 06 15:19:36 thanks Doc Jul 06 15:20:21 GeneralAntilles: Thanks. It simply confirms I have launchpad memship. Now, I should just go back to waiting for the email i guess. Jul 06 15:20:31 shame it doesn't give you an expected battery life as you add different processor and graphics card :) Jul 06 15:21:20 lardman, pfff Jul 06 15:21:28 my notebook claims to have 11h battery life when fully loaded and the screen is at its darkest setting :) Jul 06 15:21:30 lardman: heh Jul 06 15:21:44 my netbook does actually manage about 7 hours Jul 06 15:21:52 anyone have a google+ invite to give out Jul 06 15:21:53 ? Jul 06 15:21:54 can't see this quad core monster managing that somehow Jul 06 15:22:21 Im finally biting the bullet and I want in Jul 06 15:22:23 lardman: i5 sandy bridge here, also uses the power good Jul 06 15:22:28 lardman, well, CPU throttling is way better than it used to be. Jul 06 15:22:33 yep Jul 06 15:22:50 To get the nVidia card I have to go with i7, I guess that should be ok Jul 06 15:23:04 which nvidia card? Jul 06 15:23:15 NVS 4200M Jul 06 15:23:23 http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvs_techspecs.html Jul 06 15:23:54 that's a separate one (no nvidia optimus)? Jul 06 15:24:18 no idea Jul 06 15:24:19 kamui, pm me your gmail Jul 06 15:24:23 kamui: I got invited to Google+ but google says "We've temporarily exceeded our capacity. Please try again soon". And I am not in a hurry to join another social network that forces my profile to be public. Jul 06 15:24:30 that card is compute capability 2.1 though, which is good Jul 06 15:24:46 Scifig, they turn it on and off, so keep trying Jul 06 15:25:00 gri: can;'t see optimus on the CUDA support page Jul 06 15:26:22 hmm, the specs of the nvs 4200m look a lot different to the one I have Jul 06 15:26:42 you have that card do you? Jul 06 15:27:13 no Jul 06 15:27:16 I have this one: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-gt-540m-us.html Jul 06 15:28:20 gri, yeah, 'cause it's a workstation card. :P Jul 06 15:28:37 ah that has compute capability 2.1 too Jul 06 15:28:44 Because lardman is all /academic/ and whatnot. Jul 06 15:28:55 GeneralAntilles: I thought M means mobile/notebook? Jul 06 15:29:17 gri: yeah, but workstation cards are differnet Jul 06 15:29:20 different* Jul 06 15:29:28 can anyone tell me which display the N900 uses? An analysis of the mce display plugin suggests that its either a Sony acx565akm or an EID acx565akm Jul 06 15:29:29 lardman: Mine doesn't work good under linux thanks to optimus Jul 06 15:29:30 yours has more cores Jul 06 15:29:35 anyone know which of the 2 it is? Jul 06 15:29:46 Also anyone heard of CABC? Jul 06 15:30:01 gri: tried bumblebee? Jul 06 15:30:02 jonwil, was a Sony when it was first being prototyped. Jul 06 15:30:49 hiemanshu: Once, but had other problems. Ubuntu < 11.04 doesn't even support the i5's intel graphics adapter Jul 06 15:31:14 * GeneralAntilles hits Cmd-R a few more times. Jul 06 15:31:36 jonwil, cabac? Jul 06 15:31:48 no, its spelt CABC Jul 06 15:31:48 gri: doesn't sound promising Jul 06 15:31:49 gri: you need the latest drivers, try fedora 15 Jul 06 15:31:58 GeneralAntilles: and? Jul 06 15:32:29 Nothing Jul 06 15:33:02 hiemanshu: I will use my vmware workstation a little bit more, tried all latest linux distributions with the new laptop and mostly it resulted in: Either no graphics acceleration, no sound, low battery life ... Jul 06 15:33:09 ok, looks like my N900 has the acx565akm Jul 06 15:33:29 Content Adabtive Backlight Control Jul 06 15:33:45 s/ab/ap/ Jul 06 15:33:46 I thought you wrote ablative there for a minute :) Jul 06 15:33:46 DocScrutinizer meant: Content Adaptive Backlight Control Jul 06 15:33:49 dammit, my N900 wont turn on, the battery died, plugged in wall charger, get the blinking orange light, go to the loading screen with circles, and shuts down :( Jul 06 15:34:04 get a new battery :) Jul 06 15:34:28 v13: battery died = low battery :P Jul 06 15:34:30 hiemanshu: How long did it load? Mine also had this once and refused to boot for a few hours ... and suddenly worked again Jul 06 15:34:41 oh. Jul 06 15:34:50 gri: charged for about 45 mins Jul 06 15:35:56 Debugging Bluetooth discovery: get to know the names of all mac book owners in a 5km radius Jul 06 15:35:59 I think mine loaded longer than 45 minus before it wanted to boot again Jul 06 15:37:03 I recon someone should make an initrd and kernel that can be loaded with -l that is specifically for charging the battery somehow and would be designed to use as little juice as possible when doing so to ensure that it could function as long as there is even a tiny bit of juice in the battery. Jul 06 15:37:51 nick titapas Jul 06 15:37:54 oops Jul 06 15:38:37 hi i'm sitting here at a friend of mine who got himself a nokia n800 with maemo.. i wonder how to access the root filesystem.. Jul 06 15:39:05 sadly this friend only has a windows pc besides the nokia device, so all my linux skills are quite unusable at the moment Jul 06 15:39:16 tapas: there is an x-term app in n800 Jul 06 15:39:39 v13: ah ok.. i didn't find it though Jul 06 15:39:55 v13: i guess i have to manually install it.. and vim :) Jul 06 15:40:03 though that might be a chore to use with the on screen keyboard.. Jul 06 15:40:09 IIRC it is already installed Jul 06 15:40:26 The harmattan pdf viewer looks neat Jul 06 15:40:29 yep, definatly looks like I have a sony acx565akm touchscreen in my phone Jul 06 15:40:43 v13: hmm, ok.. i searched the menus though.. must be a sneaky terminal Jul 06 15:40:45 :D Jul 06 15:40:56 tapas: i belive it is in utilities Jul 06 15:41:42 if that fails: is there a way to mount the root filesystem from windows? it seems there was a visible partition on the device but it didn't look like the root fs Jul 06 15:41:47 tapas: have a look at this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6218 Jul 06 15:42:05 found the terminal.. great.. Jul 06 15:42:12 I believe no. unless you setup ssh and you access it over sshfs Jul 06 15:42:26 unless of course you're using an SD card as the root partition. Jul 06 15:42:56 gri: sprry to go off topic again, what laptop do you actually have? Jul 06 15:43:14 v13: ok.. let's see, if i can find the damn templates.. Jul 06 15:43:24 templates ? Jul 06 15:44:54 jonwil: yes, allegedly it's sony. And re charging, that is exactly what maemo does on act_dead Jul 06 15:45:05 ok Jul 06 15:45:25 v13: oh sorry, we're trying to get a software to run on that device... and we need to write a file for that.. Jul 06 15:45:39 v13: today's my lucky day.. i have a terminal and vi :) Jul 06 15:45:51 install an ssh server and ssh to it Jul 06 15:45:56 v13: is there a way to make the ordinary file manager show hidden files (dot files)? Jul 06 15:46:13 v13: will try ssh next... Jul 06 15:46:15 i don't remember. but there is at least one other file manager Jul 06 15:46:22 I'm going to get the email when I'm at the doctor's. Jul 06 15:46:24 ok Jul 06 15:46:30 going with vi for now :D Jul 06 15:47:50 gan900, and the doctor is going to send you to a rehab clinic, given you are unable to let go of your mobile phone.. Jul 06 15:51:35 lardman: Acer Aspire TimelineX 5830TG Jul 06 15:51:43 cool, thanks Jul 06 15:52:49 lardman: The only sad thing in my eyes on that thing is: just a 1366x768 resolution :( Jul 06 15:53:04 I can't buy from Acer easily anyway Jul 06 15:53:38 would also have taken Dell if I had the money :) Jul 06 15:53:52 * lardman has no clue about laptops really Jul 06 15:54:12 gri, 11.6-inch? Jul 06 15:54:12 not been bothered for such a long time, need to re-immerse myself Jul 06 15:54:19 15.6 I think from Google Jul 06 15:54:36 GeneralAntilles: Available in 13, 14 and 15,6 inch - all cost the same Jul 06 15:54:45 That resolution is unbearable for 15.6, and reasonable at 13. Jul 06 15:54:56 GeneralAntilles: I had an idea you might be interested in :P Jul 06 15:55:05 Acer laptops suck :P Jul 06 15:55:15 Brands of laptop that do not suck: Jul 06 15:55:17 Toshiba Jul 06 15:55:21 Apple Jul 06 15:55:23 Asus Jul 06 15:55:38 jonwil: Agree about Asus Jul 06 15:55:46 jonwil, Sony Vaio? :) Jul 06 15:55:51 Dell in the sucks pile then? Jul 06 15:55:53 Nope, Sony is crap Jul 06 15:55:56 Dell is crap Jul 06 15:56:02 in what way? Jul 06 15:56:03 Lenovo are GREAT Jul 06 15:56:05 Lenovo's ThinkPads still seem OK. Jul 06 15:56:07 my eeepc fell on my foot some days ago - the eeepc is fine, my foot not :) Jul 06 15:56:08 IdeaPads not so much. Jul 06 15:56:27 Lenovo is great because they basically bought IBMs laptop division Jul 06 15:56:33 Advent laptops are pretty nice if you're on a budget Jul 06 15:56:43 so all the good things about the IBM laptops are also good about the Lenovo modles Jul 06 15:56:45 models Jul 06 15:56:45 Lenovo X/T series are good though Jul 06 15:56:52 lenovo is great because of light for the keyboard Jul 06 15:57:12 HP and Compaq are also on the sucks pile Jul 06 15:57:15 Apple's backlit keyboards are better. Jul 06 15:57:29 heck, ANYTHING branded HP should be on the "sucks" pile :P Jul 06 15:57:36 well anything PC or computer related Jul 06 15:57:44 Their calculators still kick ass apparently Jul 06 15:57:54 GeneralAntilles, for sure. Actually I don't understand why backlighted keyboards aren't mainstream. Jul 06 15:58:10 my workstation at work is hp - and it really sucks Jul 06 15:58:11 Is it some patents issue or what? Jul 06 15:58:33 The Logitech Illuminated is the best keyboard I ever seen for PC. Jul 06 15:58:35 HP (uggh) had backlit keyboard Jul 06 15:58:41 I guess that normally there's enough light from the screen Jul 06 15:58:43 <3 my illuminated logitech Jul 06 15:58:44 Scifig, which series? Jul 06 15:58:51 IBM Model M is the best keyboard for PC. Jul 06 15:59:01 lardman: who needs to look at the keyboard ? :) Jul 06 15:59:04 (Or the newly-manufactured Unicomps) Jul 06 15:59:12 Pavilion dv something used it until the graphics card + MB burned Jul 06 15:59:13 v13: +1 Jul 06 15:59:16 i've been using backlit keyboards for my pc's for like a decade, theres so few of them tho Jul 06 15:59:22 yeah the Model M is the ultimate keyboard Jul 06 15:59:33 And from what I have heard, its built like a tank Jul 06 15:59:42 Could kill somebody with one. Jul 06 15:59:54 v13, lardman, do you ever had a need to print in three different layouts? It's not easy to learn blind typing for 3 layouts. Jul 06 15:59:56 GeneralAntilles: have you ever been in a lab with >20 IBMs with those keyboards ? Jul 06 15:59:57 v13, when you need function keys on a laptop that isn't a familiar one Jul 06 16:00:02 s/print/type/ Jul 06 16:00:03 divan meant: v13, lardman, do you ever had a need to type in three different layouts? It's not easy to learn blind typing for 3 layouts. Jul 06 16:00:06 Or when you need to calibrate switching from Qwerty to Dvorak. Jul 06 16:00:14 v13, yes, it's a glorious sound. Jul 06 16:00:26 GeneralAntilles: what about midnight programming ? Jul 06 16:00:26 Makes me long for mechanical typewriters. Jul 06 16:00:28 divan: I can percectly type in two layouts Jul 06 16:00:35 without looking at the keyboard Jul 06 16:00:37 divan: no, and I remember working in Switzerland and having terrible troubles with the Z and Y Jul 06 16:00:47 v13, what's midnight programming if the neighborhood doesn't know? Jul 06 16:00:58 Choom, so can I. Jul 06 16:00:58 The ultimate keyboard would be a cross between an IBM Model M and an Optimus Maximus Jul 06 16:01:04 divan: so I understand your pain there Jul 06 16:01:05 ChanServ, me too. But in third I have to look sometimes on keyboard. And functional keys were already mentioned. Jul 06 16:01:10 divan: I was a bit joking about the illuminated keyboards. Although I found the random key placements of laptops a bit annoying... Jul 06 16:01:19 Choom, the problem is I have to have a layout on the keys to put my mind in the right muscle memory. Jul 06 16:01:20 i.e. take the cool sound and feel of the Model M and the cool lit-up displays of the Optimus Jul 06 16:01:25 and you have the ultimate keyeboard Jul 06 16:01:29 I can't type Qwerty on Dvorak (or the reverse). Jul 06 16:01:29 s/Chanserv/Choom/ Jul 06 16:01:36 lardman: I will have the Z and Y trouble with the n950 ... not better :) Jul 06 16:01:38 yeah, I keep turning the volume up rather than jumping to the end of the line Jul 06 16:03:13 GeneralAntilles: I use a US layout by default (which is also printed on the keyboard), but I can also type using a portuguese layout just fine with an american keyboard, except for one key that's missing on most US keyboards, which is the key between left shift and Z Jul 06 16:05:43 I wish I could afford one of the fancy keyboards with the clickey feel and the loud key noise Jul 06 16:06:01 Its a pitty more keyboards that give you that nice loud click dont exist Jul 06 16:06:10 Choom, how different is the Portuguese layout, though? Jul 06 16:06:20 * RST38h yawns as if to swallow the sun Jul 06 16:06:28 Soo, anything new and exciting? Jul 06 16:06:31 But I think loud keyboards became a victim of the cubicle revolution of the late 80s/90s Jul 06 16:06:45 I am still working on the mce display plugin Jul 06 16:06:48 GAN900: lots, they have absolutely nothing in common beyond being QWERTY Jul 06 16:06:53 and the mce vibrator plugin Jul 06 16:06:58 jonwil: Nothing to do with the cubicle revolution, remmeber, for a very long time offices had open layout with a lot of mech typewriters Jul 06 16:07:09 jonwil, and cost cutting Jul 06 16:07:21 Look at the cheap shit bundled with computers these days Jul 06 16:07:24 jonwil: Rubber key membranes are simply cheaper Jul 06 16:07:30 doesn't last more than a couple years. Jul 06 16:07:30 yeah cost cutting is the real thing Jul 06 16:07:31 hmm, they are apparently selling these softtouch quiet ones as a feature Jul 06 16:07:43 keys are too close together though imho Jul 06 16:07:46 jonwil, pckeyboard.com Jul 06 16:07:47 yeah Jul 06 16:07:48 I have a logitech G19 at home Jul 06 16:07:49 My current keyboard is a Logitech, mostly because it was the only non-sucky keyboard I could find Jul 06 16:07:52 which is backlit Jul 06 16:07:53 ~$80 Jul 06 16:07:56 though I don't care much Jul 06 16:08:03 * RST38h uses the occassion to blame Steve Jobs for island keyboards Jul 06 16:08:21 Don't need backlit on desktop keyboard Jul 06 16:08:23 island keyboards are? Jul 06 16:08:32 That layout I've had memorized for years. Jul 06 16:09:27 even more important than a good keyboard is a good mouse Jul 06 16:09:46 jonwil: see any apple keyboard and you will know Jul 06 16:09:50 me, I have a Microsoft USB optical that is just perfect Jul 06 16:09:57 what those freaking island keyoboards are Jul 06 16:10:07 and I would gladly buy another identical mouse if I could find one Jul 06 16:10:16 but all the mice I see in the shops suck Jul 06 16:10:19 * divan tries to avoid mouse usage. vim is a perfect tool here :) Jul 06 16:10:24 GAN: You will honestly refuse a keyboard with individually backlit RGB LED keys? Jul 06 16:10:29 MX Revolution Jul 06 16:10:30 GAN: No, really? Jul 06 16:10:42 hi, i just run maemo virtual machine in my VMWARE, i just wonder, should I install something or can I just start the ESBOX? Jul 06 16:11:01 RST38h, no, but I don't need it on my desktop. Jul 06 16:11:09 ok, fair Jul 06 16:11:39 It's too bad Logitech got rid of the clutched scroll wheel Jul 06 16:11:53 Most genius mouse innovation since the optical mouse. Jul 06 16:11:58 I dont want or need a battery-sucking wireless mouse. I dont want a tiny doesnt-fit-in-my-hand "notebook" mouse and I dont want a fancy expensive gaming mouse with a laser sensor originally developed for NASA Jul 06 16:12:09 I just want a simple mouse with a few extra buttons on the sides Jul 06 16:12:12 nice big buttons Jul 06 16:12:17 like my current MS Jul 06 16:12:26 but no-one makes the mouse I want :( Jul 06 16:12:47 I need a lot of buttons on my mouse Jul 06 16:12:55 get a second keyboard :P Jul 06 16:13:06 jonwil, wouldnt the current intellimouse explorer or optical series work for you Jul 06 16:13:29 GAN900: or this: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/11/18-button-open-office-mouse-makes-a-keyboard-look-minimal/ Jul 06 16:13:31 * RST38h also liked the old Logitech mouse Jul 06 16:13:38 the one built like a little cliff Jul 06 16:13:50 * Scifig bought a cheap wireless "nano" mouse off Amazon and the scrollwheel stopped working in < 30 days :( Jul 06 16:14:54 I'm trying to make full backup of N900 using rsync with -avz switches, but permissions on destination machine are not preserved. Is it because I'm not logged in on destination machine as root? Jul 06 16:15:24 Microsoft doesn't make the the intellimouse explorer anymore Jul 06 16:15:25 yes. you muse be root to preserve ownership Jul 06 16:15:32 at least not according to their website Jul 06 16:15:40 OkropNick: But most probably what you want to use is tar instead of rsync Jul 06 16:15:50 OkropNick: At least for what you describve Jul 06 16:16:04 sp3000: ping Jul 06 16:16:07 ~ass rage Jul 06 16:16:08 it has been said that ass rage is Mass STOrage Jul 06 16:16:09 LOL Jul 06 16:16:09 * timeless needs someone who speaks sed Jul 06 16:16:14 jonwil, dunno where you are but you can still get them anywhere in the uk, every computer retailer sells em Jul 06 16:16:27 I havent seen em at any local retailer for a while Jul 06 16:16:30 including amazon Jul 06 16:16:32 but I havent been looking that hard either Jul 06 16:16:42 v13: thx, I'd rather rsync, it faster after next future usage Jul 06 16:16:54 OkropNick: oh.. sure Jul 06 16:17:01 timeless: I speak a bit Jul 06 16:18:53 OkropNick, you do also actually need to specify -p Jul 06 16:19:07 nid0: thhanks Jul 06 16:20:02 The problem with the current intellimouse compared to the one I have is that the 4th and 5th mouse buttons are too small and in the wrong place Jul 06 16:20:13 http://www.overclock.net/attachments/computer-peripherals/131090d1259511676-help-mouse-razer-diamondback-msftintellimouse.jpg Jul 06 16:20:16 Thats the mouse I have now Jul 06 16:20:35 This one Jul 06 16:20:37 http://www.performancegaming.com.au/product_images/r/807/Intellimouse_main__39633_zoom__53367_zoom.jpg Jul 06 16:20:44 I believe is the latter model Intellimouse Jul 06 16:20:51 with the 4th and 5th buttons in the wrong place Jul 06 16:20:54 and too small Jul 06 16:21:22 my current mouse lets me have my 5 fingers over the 5 buttons Jul 06 16:22:47 BTW http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/e609/?cpg=froogle Jul 06 16:23:37 The white one is kinda ugly but the black one...mhmmm Jul 06 16:23:44 god I wish we had thinkgeek in the uk Jul 06 16:23:59 You have Amazon, which also sells these Jul 06 16:24:12 look for "Luxeed keyboard" Jul 06 16:24:15 95% of the stuff on thinkgeek cant be got here though Jul 06 16:24:20 thinkgeek will ship just fine to the UK btw :) Jul 06 16:24:23 last I checked Jul 06 16:24:29 yeah, but they assrape you for delivery costs Jul 06 16:24:46 nid0: free delivery on this one, form amazon us at least Jul 06 16:24:57 I checked it a while ago and they wanted like $130 shipping for something that was like $40 and not particularly heavy Jul 06 16:24:58 besides, I have heard your government is doing most assraping Jul 06 16:25:27 oh nice, luxeed keyboard on amazon uk, £158 Jul 06 16:25:32 thats a healthy markup Jul 06 16:25:37 nid0: kinda abnormal, you may have dealt with some overseas seller working through amazon Jul 06 16:25:38 and only in white :< Jul 06 16:25:51 wait, I will find you one in UK Jul 06 16:25:55 RST38h: sorry think we're getting wires crossed, that was thinkgeek's shipping cost to the uk Jul 06 16:26:00 is it possible to reflash n900 from shell with flasher-3.5 -F -f -R without usb connection (it is broken) Jul 06 16:26:04 Ah ok Jul 06 16:26:11 i mean directly from device Jul 06 16:26:13 amazon uk do sell that keyboard though through a seller, at £158 Jul 06 16:26:38 Will f103.20 do? Jul 06 16:26:59 http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_30003.html Jul 06 16:28:57 bb Jul 06 16:29:06 heh, $40 case of bawls from thinkgeek = $124 with shipping to the uk :p Jul 06 16:29:25 see you all tomorrow Jul 06 16:34:11 * GAN900 notes spam from a local dealership isn't N950 mail. Jul 06 16:34:28 reverse engineering the vibrator plugin is going to be a pain in the ass :( Jul 06 16:34:45 I guess the Finns have probably gone home for the day. Jul 06 16:35:20 jonwil: that's a confusing sentence :) Jul 06 16:35:43 do you really want to reverse engineer the vibrator in the ass? Jul 06 16:35:57 :P Jul 06 16:39:44 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74669 Jul 06 16:39:47 oh my god Jul 06 16:39:48 this guy Jul 06 16:40:50 Does inotify is available in the Maemo Kernel ? Jul 06 16:41:30 Yes Jul 06 16:41:35 nice ... thx Jul 06 16:44:50 Sazpaimon: Wow Jul 06 16:47:40 Jaffa, this guy has made like, four threads about this Jul 06 16:47:52 Sazpaimon: He must be making *really* good progress then Jul 06 16:47:59 oh yeah Jul 06 16:48:09 he already made a poll with 10 possible names for the project Jul 06 16:48:35 is this tutorial good for rsync backup, or some more additional directories should be excluded from backup?: http://wiki.maemo.org/Manual_backup_and_restore#rsync Jul 06 16:52:24 I can see that /opt is mounted in /home/opt - so probably it should be excluded from backup Jul 06 16:52:41 Is it real? http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9/ - Power Management: GSM StandBy time up to 16 days(!!) Jul 06 16:53:52 divan, don't i didn't have one Jul 06 16:53:53 :) Jul 06 16:54:26 but n900 page say GSM Standby Time up to Jul 06 16:54:26 12 days Jul 06 16:55:34 I think 12 days is gettable, but only in suspend-RAM mode Jul 06 16:55:36 khertan, ah.. clear :) How was it measured? Jul 06 16:55:40 Which isn't implemented. Jul 06 16:57:03 ~1320 / ( 24 * 12 ) Jul 06 16:57:03 4.583333333333 Jul 06 16:57:33 sounds completely feasible, without suspend2ram Jul 06 16:57:49 Maybe just. Jul 06 16:58:23 sure 'just' - it says "up to" Jul 06 16:58:49 OkropNick: /syspart /tmp /var/tmp /var/run /proc are also not necessary i think. Jul 06 16:59:14 Sc0rpius: thx, I'll check it Jul 06 16:59:34 Scifig: : thx, I'll check it Jul 06 16:59:40 OkropNick: you generally exclude all "alien" filesystems Jul 06 16:59:47 :) Jul 06 17:00:51 see du -x / Jul 06 17:01:36 OkropNick: Also, you need to figure out which folders you don't need to sync using rsync. For example, I also exclude /home/user/MyDocs/.videos since I already have them on a PC Jul 06 17:01:39 khertan: tracker uses inotify a lot Jul 06 17:02:09 Scifig: I'm also excluding these folders Jul 06 17:02:44 I'll check disc usage with x switch Jul 06 17:03:26 OkropNick: see wiki user:joerg_rw/tools - I placed there the rsync line I use for syncing once a day Jul 06 17:03:34 DocScrutinizer, tracker isn't a good example ... Jul 06 17:04:11 it is, as it's the classical usage of inotify Jul 06 17:04:13 DocScrutinizer: Can I askfor direct link? Jul 06 17:04:45 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Jul 06 17:05:48 * MohammadAG grumbles 1091 2 root RW 0 0.0 90.6 [sgx_misr] Jul 06 17:06:03 khertan: since I don't know your usecase, I obviously can't tell what's a good example for _you_. That's why I used tracker as it demonstrates what inotify is usually used for and what it does Jul 06 17:06:08 DocScrutinizer: did you get your dhl number? Jul 06 17:06:14 yep Jul 06 17:06:34 DocScrutinizer: awesome, so whats the current status? Jul 06 17:06:35 can I track it for you? Jul 06 17:06:43 DocScrutinizer, :) Jul 06 17:06:56 sittin in Helsinki Airport, waiting for dunno what Jul 06 17:07:14 DocScrutinizer: ah, so its waiting for the DHL cargo flight Jul 06 17:07:24 possibly Jul 06 17:07:45 I enabled SMS notification on all events Jul 06 17:07:48 DocScrutinizer: so you'll have before the end of the week \o/ Jul 06 17:07:55 expect it to arrive tomorrow Jul 06 17:08:05 wow Jul 06 17:08:09 thats fast :D Jul 06 17:08:18 * hiemanshu is still fucking waiting to order Jul 06 17:08:18 DocScrutinizer: Thanks for the Wiki link. Is your rsync script running as root on PC? Jul 06 17:08:21 DHL express is overnight Jul 06 17:08:31 hiemanshu: you're not alone ... Jul 06 17:08:40 Why oh why Jul 06 17:08:44 didn't I get my Jul 06 17:08:46 gri: I was from the first few to be approved by launchpad Jul 06 17:08:49 Scifig: err, as user iirc, from user crontab Jul 06 17:08:55 email, couldn't find anything that rhymes Jul 06 17:08:59 gri: so I am expecting tomorrow to order, and monday to get it here Jul 06 17:09:23 MohammadAG: Why oh Why, didn't I get my email, I sat home waiting after dumping my female? Jul 06 17:09:39 DocScrutinizer, any ideas if express shipping is available for outside EU orders? Jul 06 17:10:18 Nokia will ship DHL express worldwide, dunno if that means overnight worldwide, prolly not Jul 06 17:10:35 MohammadAG: well 3-4 days Jul 06 17:10:54 DocScrutinizer: I want it before the 15th to show it off at the Qt meetup :D Jul 06 17:10:54 well, friday's a weekend but they won't stop the plane mid air for that Jul 06 17:11:07 MohammadAG: DHL works weekends, just no delivery Jul 06 17:11:09 * MohammadAG hopes it ships tomorrow morning Jul 06 17:11:23 MohammadAG: you need the email first :P Jul 06 17:11:36 hiemanshu: I'm *really* sorry about that, but there's absolutely nothing I can do Jul 06 17:11:51 DocScrutinizer: #JustSaying :P Jul 06 17:11:52 DocScrutinizer: I am using similar rsync setup (pushing to PC instead). Will permissions of maemo files (root vs user) be retained with rsync? Jul 06 17:11:54 * gri has bad experience with dhl express ... normal dhl was always faster Jul 06 17:12:46 DocScrutinizer, was overnight for me. Jul 06 17:12:48 I guess after the rather small number of shippings today, tomorrow will be a busy day Jul 06 17:12:51 From Finland. Jul 06 17:13:00 GAN900: to US?> Jul 06 17:13:02 GAN900: to US? Jul 06 17:13:06 Yeah Jul 06 17:13:17 With the N900 DDP Jul 06 17:13:18 well, your night then ;-) Jul 06 17:13:26 and . . . other things. Jul 06 17:13:40 GRRRRR Jul 06 17:13:48 ;-) Jul 06 17:13:53 N900 September Proto, Jul 06 17:14:09 So what does this magical email from launchpad have? A link where you can place the order or something? Jul 06 17:14:25 ~n950order Jul 06 17:14:26 somebody said n950order was https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 and wait for "internal error" changing to something wonderful eventually :-) Jul 06 17:14:26 Scifig, when the N950 email comes, yes. Jul 06 17:14:31 that's the link Jul 06 17:14:47 there's NUTTIN in that mail, except that link Jul 06 17:15:23 Unexpected error :( Jul 06 17:15:36 the fact you get that mail indicates the URL above has started to work Jul 06 17:16:08 DocScrutinizer: Thanks. "Unexpected Error" as expected. F5 marathon continues Jul 06 17:17:16 I had a small hope that the email was just a formality and the link might work now since the launchpad membership is already approved. Jul 06 17:17:48 Scifig: the link may work some hours before mail is reaching you Jul 06 17:18:04 or not, usually Jul 06 17:18:38 probably the mail is faster usually than the status change in their mysql backend Jul 06 17:18:39 Well, I will just believe what sounds good to me :) bookmarked the link Jul 06 17:19:47 Scifig: I've seen mail providers "processing" delivered mails for hours Jul 06 17:20:06 sometimes half a day Jul 06 17:20:23 gmail been notorious for that Jul 06 17:20:32 Yes, I have seen that with gmail too Jul 06 17:20:52 is it possible to perform a firmwarupgrade directly from n900 xterm? Does "flasher-3.5 -F -f -R" work? Jul 06 17:21:18 sid__: good question - probably not Jul 06 17:21:41 DocScrutinizer: any other way? my usb is broken Jul 06 17:21:50 sid__: May be OTA might work if your USB port is broken. But I donno how to get it to work Jul 06 17:21:53 sid__: um, how do you expect that to work? you cannot flash the root fs while you are using the root fs Jul 06 17:22:00 sid__: anyway you have to start softupd or sth like that Jul 06 17:22:24 You can update from meego - if you can get that booted. I don't lknow of any detailed howtos though. Jul 06 17:23:32 hiemanshu: actually once the image.bin on ideally eMMC got opened and flasher is in RAM and executing, you can stop scheduler and run a flashing process happily even to rootfs Jul 06 17:23:45 Hey quick question, what is a decent going rate for an n900 with a broken screen and USB port? Jul 06 17:24:07 50 bucks Jul 06 17:24:42 if at all Jul 06 17:24:46 About what I was thinking too, just wanted to see if anyone had a dissenting opinion Jul 06 17:24:46 so i just have to boot from mmc1 Jul 06 17:24:48 DocScrutinizer: is there a way to do it? Jul 06 17:25:01 Pretty much I am just looking to purchase one for spare parts sinceI need to do some repairs on mine Jul 06 17:25:03 DocScrutinizer: I mean a tested way? Jul 06 17:25:19 hiemanshu: in theory yes. Practically I doubt it's implemented Jul 06 17:26:01 Seablade: when screen and mobo is broken, what are the spare parts then? Jul 06 17:26:15 stylus? backcover? Jul 06 17:26:19 stylus! Jul 06 17:26:28 DocScrutinizer: eMMC? camera lens? SoC? Jul 06 17:26:30 DocScrutinizer The USB port I can likely resolder myself I suspect, to get the MOBO in working condition Jul 06 17:26:34 LOL Jul 06 17:26:50 camera module, fair enough Jul 06 17:27:05 Seablade: gambling Jul 06 17:27:12 that's why I said 50 Jul 06 17:27:13 DocScrutinizer And since the GSM chip in mine seems to be shot that would give me a working mobo again to allow me to actually use it as a phone Jul 06 17:27:30 :nod: Jul 06 17:28:12 Seablade: if you know to hold a hot iron, you probably can fix USB Jul 06 17:28:20 DocScrutinizer Truth be told I am trying to find a pic of the USB port before I make a final offer just to confirm I can do the repair myself, I do at least know my way around an iron Jul 06 17:28:49 DocScrutinizer Considering part of my job description is doing repairs with an iron, though primarily on larger non-SMD devices, I suspect I can get that repair done Jul 06 17:29:20 get that zip pic http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 Jul 06 17:30:11 and this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 Jul 06 17:30:25 DocScrutinizer: maybe you want to repair my usb connector? Jul 06 17:30:26 should help a bit Jul 06 17:30:47 sid__: I'm too old for that kinda stuff Jul 06 17:31:08 DocScrutinizerIt does, that zip pic is interesting, looks like they mounted a SMD USB port to a different plane and then ran jumpers to the connection points on the original board, odd Jul 06 17:31:33 Will Nokia repair broken N900 USB if that's out of warranty? Any idea how much would they charge? Jul 06 17:31:35 DocScrutinizer But the other pics all show that it is a pretty large solder contact area it seems so shouldn't be difficult to resolder Jul 06 17:31:48 Seablade: nah that's original location of USB Jul 06 17:32:00 Seablade: just new solder points a bit off Jul 06 17:32:41 Scifig: nope, they don't Jul 06 17:33:34 * Scifig clutches his 3rd replacement N900 with fear Jul 06 17:33:54 Yea I am tempted to stockpile a few n900 these days... Jul 06 17:34:01 gah, its been 3 hours and my N900 still wont power on :( Jul 06 17:34:17 hiemanshu: wait til "green"! Jul 06 17:35:06 DocScrutinizer: when I power it on, it turns white, then green for a few seconds and then blinking orange again Jul 06 17:35:16 hiemanshu: hmm Jul 06 17:35:24 so, anyone with a facebook can now do video calls Jul 06 17:35:29 might be dead cell Jul 06 17:35:33 even more reason to use G+ Jul 06 17:35:51 Scifig ? Third n900? Glad to know I'm not the only one.. :D Jul 06 17:35:58 yeah my bro is home, going to try the battery from his Jul 06 17:36:04 I remember Jaffa said they sent him an N8 as a replacement for his N900. I hope they checked with him first. Jul 06 17:36:15 hiemanshu: order a cheap new fake battery Jul 06 17:36:16 I don't want no symbian. Thank you Jul 06 17:36:32 DocScrutinizer: lemme test if its the battery Jul 06 17:36:32 No, they didn't check with him first. Jul 06 17:36:42 cpscotti: 1st time - USB broke, 2nd time - SIM not recognized. Jul 06 17:38:07 link to cheap new fake battery that can be trusted pls! Jul 06 17:38:13 * DocScrutinizer wonders if Nokia cut N900 legs due to fab QA issues Jul 06 17:38:38 DocScrutinizer: I plugged out the charger, put the battery in again, and it boots up just fine and shows a 97% charged battery Jul 06 17:38:46 maybe they didn't get their fab QA test procedures tuned to maemo devices? Jul 06 17:38:59 Scifig, my story's way worse; 1st stolen, 2 stolen. First had smscon but not properly configured; second didn't had anything. Jul 06 17:39:01 alterego:That sucks. I will remember that before sending for repair next time Jul 06 17:39:27 hiemanshu: so maybe bme gone mad - I'd not exactly be surprised Jul 06 17:40:07 DocScrutinizer: yeah maybe Jul 06 17:40:23 cpscotti: Thats horrible Jul 06 17:40:47 hiemanshu: maybe you should ge real figures: use bq27200.sh Jul 06 17:40:53 Scifig, I know! I know.. but all's fine now.. Jul 06 17:40:55 get* Jul 06 17:41:45 DocScrutinizer: hmm, how do I use? is it already installed? Jul 06 17:42:13 Random question. I've been overcharged by DHL for an inbound package to me - they've overbilled the customs fee. Has anyone got any idea where to go from here? Jul 06 17:42:17 UK Jul 06 17:44:01 most carriers will charge an "admin fee" on top of customs charges when theres one due Jul 06 17:46:11 What is the administration fee? Jul 06 17:46:12 The fee for business customers is £10 or 2% of the total duty/VAT amount incurred, whichever is the greate Jul 06 17:46:13 r Jul 06 17:46:16 that's dhl's Jul 06 17:46:41 or if you had something going to you as an individual Jul 06 17:46:44 We charge £1.25, or 2% of the total duty/VAT incurred, whichever is the greater Jul 06 17:48:00 nid0: yeah - I object to the 10 quid fee. But the problem is they charged 20 quid duty on a (correctly) declared 50 dollar/35 quid item. Jul 06 17:48:38 I guess I need to phone them. Jul 06 17:48:44 if thats the actual customs charge rather than dhl's admin fee, you'll presumably need to take it up with hmrc rather than dhl Jul 06 17:48:44 hiemanshu: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bq27200 Jul 06 17:48:55 nid0: Possibly, yes. Jul 06 17:49:09 hiemanshu: though you need i2ctools for that Jul 06 17:49:15 DocScrutinizer: I got http://enivax.net/jk/n900/ Jul 06 17:49:20 same Jul 06 17:49:22 +it at Jul 06 17:49:24 basically Jul 06 17:50:26 :wq Jul 06 17:50:33 yoyoyo Jul 06 17:50:56 I'm going to drink a glass of orange juice every 2 hours until Nokia sends me an N950 email. Jul 06 17:51:08 Vi__ says :wq - LOL Jul 06 17:51:18 Mmm . . . orange juice. Jul 06 17:51:48 GeneralAntilles: there is an indian movie 'Delhi Belly' if you watch it, you'll not have orange juice for a while :P Jul 06 17:52:59 DocScrutinizer: is the connector useful/working? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71414&page=4 Jul 06 17:53:38 GeneralAntilles: expensive orange juice, or the cheap stuff? Jul 06 17:53:45 because i'd expect it'd get quite pricy Jul 06 17:53:55 timeless, well, orange juice is never expensive in Florida. Jul 06 17:53:57 But it's roadside. Jul 06 17:54:06 So, I guess it's technically the expensive stuff. Jul 06 17:54:20 but at a local discount Jul 06 17:54:22 so unfair Jul 06 17:54:23 lol Jul 06 17:55:16 timeless, hey, move to Florida. Jul 06 17:55:23 We'll drink orange juice together. :P Jul 06 17:55:27 DocScrutinizer: what output from the script am I looking for? Jul 06 17:55:28 :) Jul 06 17:55:31 sid__: eh? Jul 06 17:55:34 but i just moved once Jul 06 17:55:40 and i'm already burning up here Jul 06 17:55:53 hiemanshu: first of all voltage, and current Jul 06 17:56:08 * timeless hearts Aero behaviors Jul 06 17:56:19 gee.. something nasty happened with my n900's bluetooth.. It won't go ON (either by calling the api or by going on the Bluetooth menu itself) Jul 06 17:56:30 it's always correct and gives you a pretty good idea about state of your cell Jul 06 17:56:30 aaand it erased the device name by itself Jul 06 17:56:31 DocScrutinizer: Reported Battery voltage : 4035 mV Jul 06 17:56:47 may be 80..90% Jul 06 17:56:59 should still charge ~150mA Jul 06 17:57:11 CSOC: 93%, RSOC: 93% Jul 06 17:57:18 for reflashing with broken usb Jul 06 17:57:18 irrelevant Jul 06 17:58:33 sid__: for flashing with broken USB I'd strongly recommend NOT to solder to those testpoints, but rather find a proper fixture to contact them with spring loaded contacts, so called pogopins Jul 06 17:58:33 timeless, how's the new job? Jul 06 17:58:42 pretty good Jul 06 17:58:50 but Nightly's update behavior sucks Jul 06 17:59:37 DocScrutinizer, i am using SCBOX, but when i compile the file mohammad gave me yesterday, i got nothing. Jul 06 17:59:42 DocScrutinizer: jea, i mean the connector http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1025996&postcount=35 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOKIA-N900-UNLOCK-FLASH-CABLE-JAF-UFS-MT-BOX-MXKEY-/320515099442?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccesories_MobilePhoneDataCables_JN&hash=item4aa0304b32 Jul 06 17:59:58 (i always get to restart twice, because the updater is *stupid*) Jul 06 18:00:22 timeless, where are you working now? Jul 06 18:00:25 that one, it's nice, but a bit of a pain to mod it Jul 06 18:00:32 RIM Jul 06 18:00:37 lol Jul 06 18:00:41 should have figured Jul 06 18:00:47 mobile in CA Jul 06 18:00:54 I'll need additional pogopins for it Jul 06 18:01:24 need to get* Jul 06 18:02:13 any other suggestions? i do not want to build it myself Jul 06 18:02:20 *where to buy Jul 06 18:02:26 grr Jul 06 18:02:28 flash is out of date Jul 06 18:02:37 so i get to restart *again* Jul 06 18:03:14 timeless, one reason I stopped using FF. Jul 06 18:03:22 (aside from the non-native widgets) Jul 06 18:03:27 um Jul 06 18:03:29 DocScrutinizer: http://fpaste.org/skVr/ Jul 06 18:03:33 no browser uses native widgets... Jul 06 18:03:44 need help, DocScrutinizer Jul 06 18:03:48 i.e., in the browser window UI. Jul 06 18:03:54 Not the webwidgets. Jul 06 18:04:40 holmesII: sorrry I'm busy. Ask the author of the file please Jul 06 18:04:57 MohammadAG knows way better how to build that than me Jul 06 18:05:26 and note that Adobe's updater is stupid Jul 06 18:05:45 you'll get a .so file whihc you have to place in /usr/lib/hildon-desktop Jul 06 18:05:50 ok, thanks anyway. Jul 06 18:05:53 someone correct my typo, kthxbai Jul 06 18:06:13 it could trivially determine that firefox doesn't use the flash plugin Jul 06 18:06:19 and deal w/ updating the plugin Jul 06 18:06:41 it could also rename the plugin, install the replacement, register a delete-later thing Jul 06 18:06:51 and then terminate a plugin-container which is actually using flash Jul 06 18:06:55 firefox would deal w/ it Jul 06 18:08:18 holmesII, can't see why you need to see it though Jul 06 18:08:25 it's just a clone of the default battery indicator Jul 06 18:08:28 without battery sounds Jul 06 18:09:01 what i need is to gain the charge level (mha) for other purpose use. Jul 06 18:09:42 i am now running VMWARE. the SCBOX is running fine. I can debug your program but when i run it. there is no output. no .so files. Jul 06 18:09:59 i need to read your program and learn how to get the charge level. Jul 06 18:12:21 but if i compile with make in terminal. i will get the same results as in N900. Jul 06 18:12:48 the only thing i am doing now is create a empty project and import your code into it and compile. Jul 06 18:15:45 MohammadAG, ... ours is not to question why ;) hehe Jul 06 18:16:22 i'm sure about 2 years ago someone said can we overclock etc etc.... and most said why (Replace overclock with anything like hostmode blah blah) Jul 06 18:21:01 Noobmonk3y: truth Jul 06 18:21:02 ooh, The Wizard of Oz is playing today Jul 06 18:21:28 also, any time I talked to Quim about my app, he would consistently just say "i don't see why that's necessary" Jul 06 18:21:40 (advanced backlight) Jul 06 18:21:51 rm_work: but you are getting a N950 right? Jul 06 18:21:54 yes Jul 06 18:22:19 and he kept approving me to go to conferences and such Jul 06 18:22:26 rm_work, it wasn't THAT bad. Jul 06 18:22:32 It was just the one time here. :P Jul 06 18:22:34 rm_work: http://www.ihighfive.com/ Jul 06 18:22:34 http://www.blogto.com/film/2011/06/free_outdoor_film_screenings_in_toronto_summer_2011/ Jul 06 18:22:39 * timeless is amused by the start times Jul 06 18:22:41 GeneralAntilles: you weren't at Mozilla/Maemo Denmark Jul 06 18:22:45 Ah Jul 06 18:22:48 Did he make you cry? Jul 06 18:22:50 lol Jul 06 18:22:51 GeneralAntilles: http://www.ihighfive.com/ Jul 06 18:22:53 Want me to go beat him up for you? Jul 06 18:23:06 no but he was like "wtf, not needed" the whole time Jul 06 18:23:14 lol Jul 06 18:23:20 "WHY ARE YOU HERE?" Jul 06 18:23:21 though he did get that ridiculous top-down picture of me Jul 06 18:23:26 "Because you approved me." Jul 06 18:23:27 yeah basically Jul 06 18:23:30 :) Jul 06 18:23:31 "I ASK AGAIN. WHY ARE YOU HERE?" Jul 06 18:23:58 umm, project? Jul 06 18:24:01 just run make Jul 06 18:24:27 GeneralAntilles: bcoz I am so fucken sick, dawg :P Jul 06 18:24:40 yes. if i run make, i will get the same results as i did in N900. it said i don't have hildon-1 package Jul 06 18:25:04 then install it Jul 06 18:25:06 but when i create an empty project in SCBOX, i can see there is referece for hildon-1 and many others Jul 06 18:25:20 when i run make, i got the error results Jul 06 18:25:29 GeneralAntilles: http://twitter.com/#!/b0unc3/status/88511652525383680 :( Jul 06 18:26:37 That's such bullshit. Jul 06 18:26:39 * GeneralAntilles rages a bit. Jul 06 18:27:11 Think they're rolling dice to see who to approve next? Jul 06 18:27:25 GeneralAntilles: he/she is from batch three :/ Jul 06 18:27:31 ah, this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/quimgil/3579487690/ Jul 06 18:28:12 Nice Jul 06 18:29:44 ROFL just saw this one for the first time: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimmy2k/3587005206/ Jul 06 18:30:10 rm_work: thats you? Jul 06 18:30:21 yes lol Jul 06 18:30:42 peeling kiwis is optional.. Jul 06 18:30:52 timeless: indeed :P Jul 06 18:30:56 rm_work: were you planning on swallowing the one thing at once? Jul 06 18:31:01 lol nearly Jul 06 18:31:09 a kiwi is like 3 bites for me Jul 06 18:31:30 Pfff Jul 06 18:31:35 rm_work, got a Flickr account? Jul 06 18:31:40 rm_work: fucking monster :P Jul 06 18:31:52 GeneralAntilles: nope :/ i don't think i do, at least Jul 06 18:31:58 Get one. Jul 06 18:32:04 k sec Jul 06 18:32:05 Then we can tag you in all of these pictures Jul 06 18:32:07 rm_work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cbuddha/2267949099/ Jul 06 18:32:11 and generations to come can laugh and laugh. Jul 06 18:32:27 rofl RST38h Jul 06 18:32:55 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=74663 Jul 06 18:32:57 goddamn Jul 06 18:32:59 i hate TMO Jul 06 18:33:06 ah i can sign in to flickr with google Jul 06 18:33:32 so we are showing off pics? Jul 06 18:33:59 rm_work: http://i.imgur.com/qDHrl.jpg thats the view outside my house at around 7-ish every day Jul 06 18:35:33 GeneralAntilles: i think I have one but i can't remember the login info Jul 06 18:35:37 at least, rm_you is taken Jul 06 18:35:47 and i feel like i remember signing up before now Jul 06 18:36:37 for those of you who haven't been to india : https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/149259_451312467804_685872804_6075996_2752887_n.jpg <--- thats a reason to come :D Jul 06 18:37:41 GeneralAntilles: lol, my yahoo account won't let me recover my password until tomorrow Jul 06 18:37:42 Nice. But too hot, too humid, too many people =) Jul 06 18:38:07 rm_work, I feel like we've discussed this before, too. Jul 06 18:38:12 possibly Jul 06 18:38:18 aha, tmo has now officially degenerated to the *chan status Jul 06 18:38:23 lol Jul 06 18:38:35 i should just start Maemo-Chan Jul 06 18:38:37 RST38h: well no, thats a beach, about 500 kms from where I stay, barely any people there, room rents are about $5 a night Jul 06 18:39:00 has anyone selected for an n950 not yeat heard back grom launchpad/got an update on progress? Jul 06 18:39:08 Two first items stay though =) Jul 06 18:39:25 piggz: pretty much everyone is still waiting Jul 06 18:39:34 This is why everyone should come to Florida: http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/charlotte/22796d1215481567-nother-name-insect-alligator_snake2.jpg Jul 06 18:39:37 a few *random* people got in Jul 06 18:39:45 piggz: I know alterego hasn't heard back from launchpad yet Jul 06 18:40:08 GeneralAntilles: wtf am i looking at, rofl Jul 06 18:40:08 cool..not jsut me, was getting worried :) Jul 06 18:40:16 General: Darwin approves! Jul 06 18:40:23 is that an alligtor that got eaten by a snake and then broke open the snake? Jul 06 18:40:24 rm_work, python tried to eat a gator in the Everglades. Jul 06 18:40:26 GeneralAntilles: I have a reason to come to florida already Jul 06 18:41:05 GeneralAntilles: was there a conclusion? Jul 06 18:41:15 and if that's not your speed, how about this? http://rvtreks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/North-Beach-at-Fort-Desoto-1024x768.jpg Jul 06 18:41:20 http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Samsung-fends-off-Microsoft-and-Apple-attacks/ Jul 06 18:41:26 timeless, to the snake eating a gator? Jul 06 18:41:35 yeah Jul 06 18:41:58 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1006_051006_pythoneatsgator.html Jul 06 18:42:22 GeneralAntilles: well tell the US gov to not disapprove my visa again Jul 06 18:42:38 hiemanshu, I'm in favor of open borders, personally. Jul 06 18:42:46 GeneralAntilles: tried once for a FUDCon in Arizona (sponsored by fedora), and well the fucking embass denied my visa :( Jul 06 18:42:55 embassy* Jul 06 18:42:59 Ok, https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eqDbXWnIUKA/RS6n3Z8aABI/AAAAAAAAADo/pzqv8y0JcUE/s576/CIMG1523.JPG Jul 06 18:44:02 RST38h: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/37847_416748857804_685872804_5312135_3770207_n.jpg Jul 06 18:44:08 I guess if M$ can't win with wp7 it'll go for patent war Jul 06 18:44:29 * GeneralAntilles would rather have the US collecting all of the the useful people it can and not sending them away. :P Jul 06 18:44:39 https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/39698_416749017804_685872804_5312152_3923519_n.jpg Jul 06 18:44:50 hiemanshu: Yea, that is how it looks here, just replace water with snow. Jul 06 18:44:58 RST38h: hah Jul 06 18:45:03 RST38h: well its water here Jul 06 18:45:09 * hiemanshu is far away from water though Jul 06 18:45:49 GeneralAntilles: so they both lost.. Jul 06 18:45:51 Also, https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vVFSz8V6ras/RS6pKMDrABI/AAAAAAAAAGY/9A2KA0WEHLk/s576/CIMG2068.JPG (last one wasw winter night, this one is summer evening) Jul 06 18:46:02 RST38h: too much light Jul 06 18:46:12 hiemanshu: fwiw, s/disapprove/refuse|deny/ Jul 06 18:46:15 That is how much was there Jul 06 18:46:19 timeless, yep. Jul 06 18:46:23 timeless: well yeah :) Jul 06 18:47:01 ruskie: if you had a product which was built around patents, and you offered to license the product or its patents Jul 06 18:47:12 ... and someone shipped a competing product which infringed on your patents Jul 06 18:47:14 ... what would you do? Jul 06 18:47:35 ... clearly the patents are valuable. hopefully the patents were expensive to develop. Jul 06 18:47:48 are you considering in the current system or in a sane system? Jul 06 18:47:50 ... the reason patents exist is to give their inventor a head start for disclosing the innovation Jul 06 18:47:55 in the current system... I wouldn't even have a product Jul 06 18:48:07 ruskie: the current system. Jul 06 18:48:20 the current system is only partially insane Jul 06 18:48:29 The reason patents exist is to make money! Jul 06 18:48:35 mostly the timeline is off by a couple of orders of magnitude Jul 06 18:48:38 I thought it was to prevent people from making money. Jul 06 18:48:57 RST38h: same goes for NDAs Jul 06 18:48:59 By changing the current system, you will destroy the whole business ecosystem of companies living off patents! Jul 06 18:49:00 Also, acquiring patents, particularly software patents, is not expensive. Jul 06 18:49:04 the reason patents exist is to encourage inventors to disclose and share innovations Jul 06 18:49:21 That's the theoretical reason. In practice, the opposite happens. Jul 06 18:49:23 the problem is that in software, a patent should really only last 2-3 years Jul 06 18:49:33 timeless, I'd rather have no patents and have people hide things Jul 06 18:49:34 unfortuantely, they last upwards of 20 Jul 06 18:49:40 Just think of how many children will go hungry once their lawyer dads stop bringin in the dow Jul 06 18:49:49 that way atleast people could reimplement thoeir own way Jul 06 18:49:50 RST38h: s/dow/dough/ Jul 06 18:49:55 Yea, sorry Jul 06 18:49:55 derf, that's a function of the timeline as timeless says, though. Jul 06 18:50:02 and a function of the USPO being retarded Jul 06 18:50:05 RST38h: Thing how many children will be fed because their dads didn't have to pay a lawyer. Jul 06 18:50:11 But that's an inherent property of government. Jul 06 18:50:20 GeneralAntilles: What's a function of the timeline? Jul 06 18:50:21 the same applies to copyright Jul 06 18:50:26 the idea isn't bad Jul 06 18:50:26 BTW, absolutely the same argument works when arguing against federally funded health care Jul 06 18:50:33 derf, the particular brokeness. Jul 06 18:50:35 it's that the timeline has been skewed/stretched way too far Jul 06 18:50:47 GeneralAntilles: Not really, no. Jul 06 18:50:54 derf: Those are not successful people, they have something to hide and prove, if they hire lawyers Jul 06 18:51:08 derf: So, by the laws of social darwinism we shall let 'emstarve Jul 06 18:51:12 a) patents are written to obscure as much as possible, and the people trying to do that are better at it than any regulator trying to stop them Jul 06 18:51:24 b) engineers are told not to look at patents for liability reasons Jul 06 18:51:39 c) even when patents expire, engineers still don't look at them because of a) Jul 06 18:52:10 derf: with a collapsed timeline, i don't think b would be a significant problem Jul 06 18:52:11 * RST38h extrapolates 20-30 years into the future, yawns, gets some popcorn Jul 06 18:52:18 timeless: See c) Jul 06 18:52:44 derf: ideally a is solvable Jul 06 18:52:50 Bullshit. Jul 06 18:52:59 but yes, it involves adjusting the patent grant process Jul 06 18:53:05 *ideally* Jul 06 18:53:09 This has been attempted before. Jul 06 18:53:11 'course, if politics are involved it's always going to degenerate to shit. Jul 06 18:53:15 See: Our Current System Jul 06 18:53:17 a patent on a physical product that the person/company produces... 20 years sure... patents for non-producers... duration 5 years... sw patents... 2 years Jul 06 18:53:17 The FTC has been trying for _decades_. Jul 06 18:53:34 The applicants can adapt much, much more quickly than the beauracracy. Jul 06 18:53:52 How about sw patents: never. Jul 06 18:54:02 It takes more than 2 years just to process the application. Jul 06 18:54:03 agreed but atm you need to fix the system that is in place Jul 06 18:54:05 derf: if the span of a patent is sufficiently short Jul 06 18:54:17 then you won't invest the money in adapting to defeat the other portions Jul 06 18:54:26 once something is granted/forbidden it's much harder to change Jul 06 18:54:29 hence the timeline is an important factor Jul 06 18:54:45 Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see a shorter timeline. Jul 06 18:54:51 But it will not solve all the problems. Jul 06 18:54:58 Gentlemen, I am reluctant to play Cpt Obvious here (again), but as none of you are capable of CHANGING the US patent law, it makes no sense to argue about it Jul 06 18:55:01 oh, it won't solve everything Jul 06 18:55:05 but it could lead things in a much better direction Jul 06 18:55:17 Instead, I suggest we argue about what the current situation will lead to in a few years. Jul 06 18:55:21 RST38h: technically i'm a citizen Jul 06 18:55:32 as is GeneralAntilles Jul 06 18:55:33 timeless: Hey I am also a citizen. What does it change? Jul 06 18:55:39 iirc derf is a UK citizen Jul 06 18:55:47 RST38h: Right, I'll remember that the next time I'm at an FTC workshop on patents. I'll just not argue with them because I can't change anything. Jul 06 18:56:06 timeless: No, I'm not. Jul 06 18:56:08 derf: If you argue with them, will it change anythign? Jul 06 18:56:24 RST38h, you never know if you don't know Jul 06 18:56:25 RST38h: Well, I was certainly the only one there expressing our point of view. Jul 06 18:56:26 erm don't try Jul 06 18:56:29 derf: how often have you been to patent workshops? Jul 06 18:56:40 Last one was two weeks ago? Jul 06 18:56:57 derf: Probably means the others got tired of that a long while ago =( Jul 06 18:57:00 Well, if you don't try you never will change anything. :P Jul 06 18:57:19 http://www.natlawreview.com/article/ftc-hosts-workshop-preventing-patent-hold-ups-standard-setting ? Jul 06 18:57:32 timeless: Yes, that one. Jul 06 18:57:35 and if you do try, you will just be left with the sore throat and the feeling of lost time. Jul 06 18:57:50 See also http://xiphmont.livejournal.com/56718.html and the associated comments we submitted, most of which I wrote. Jul 06 18:58:50 I think I read that earlier Jul 06 18:58:55 DEpressing. Jul 06 18:58:58 General: On the other hand though, it is quite possible that Google will be able to affect the situation Jul 06 18:59:13 General: Given the amount of money they have and the rate at which they hire lobbyists Jul 06 18:59:50 SpeedEvil: Every example in there, even when not tied to specific events, was based on real experiences trying to get stuff standardized. Jul 06 19:00:59 RST38h: Google was invited to that workshop. They declined to attend. Jul 06 19:01:38 anyone knows a good documentation for booting maemo from mmc? Jul 06 19:01:45 *does Jul 06 19:01:52 I also particularly enjoyed how everyone on the panel tried to pretend that standards are set by engineers without worrying about patents at all, and then the lawyers figure out the licensing later. Jul 06 19:02:08 derf, I thought that's what cisco wants Jul 06 19:02:34 At least until I explained to FTC people that no, people really really do consider alternatives and try to invent around. Jul 06 19:03:15 ruskie: I cited an example of Cisco themselves publishing information on how to use old, established algorithms instead of patented techniques for ECC. Jul 06 19:03:18 derf: It's barking mad. Jul 06 19:03:53 ruskie: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6090 Jul 06 19:04:23 sno it's ok for cisco to push their own patents into standards but not for others to do so? Jul 06 19:04:30 Legislators often have a hideously poor understanding of the area they're regulating. Jul 06 19:04:47 Well, Cisco is a big company, but yes. That is my understanding of how the system works. Jul 06 19:05:03 My patents == good. Your patents == bad. Jul 06 19:05:15 SpeedEvil, thus why I can't even begin to fathom why people keep voting them more power. Jul 06 19:05:21 Like they're some sort of wizened elders. Jul 06 19:07:07 This has lead in the case of the UK for example in one trivial area to 'the solar industry' - monkeys that install panels on roofs - driving regulation Jul 06 19:07:36 Meaning panels not installed by said monkeys - even if 1/4 of the price - can never pay off. Jul 06 19:07:48 i hope you mean literal monkeys Jul 06 19:08:02 Pretty much, in some cases. Jul 06 19:09:21 Yes, so stop voting these people more power. Jul 06 19:09:31 Why does anybody want them in charge of your health care? Jul 06 19:09:58 I've yet to find a candidate i actually WANT to vote for Jul 06 19:10:05 derf:How interesting (about Google declining) Jul 06 19:10:14 the last election i was trying to vote for whoever i thought would cause the least damage Jul 06 19:10:44 General: Is there some alternative group of people you would vote into power? Jul 06 19:10:51 rm_work, in such cases I prefer to just invalidate my vote Jul 06 19:11:14 General: And if this group does come to power, by whatever means, how do you make sure they do not repeat what the last group has done? Jul 06 19:11:17 ruskie: yeah but at least i TRIED Jul 06 19:11:22 RST38h, not particularly. Jul 06 19:11:27 But Ron Paul has some appeal. Jul 06 19:11:34 General: Yea, right... =( Jul 06 19:11:44 If he'd stop ranting about the Fed at every opportunity. Jul 06 19:11:45 RST38h: I hear they've hired 12 lobbying firms now that the FTC is investigating them. Jul 06 19:11:58 So maybe that will change! Jul 06 19:12:12 The two-party system makes real change nearly impossible. Jul 06 19:12:15 derf: Yeah, seen that in the news a while ago Jul 06 19:12:21 yeah Jul 06 19:12:27 But if everybody weren't always so dumb as to be in favor of more stupidity. Jul 06 19:12:31 They wouldn't be able to keep it up. Jul 06 19:12:43 General: Well, this is how complex systems work Jul 06 19:12:53 the Tea Party scares me but i'm hoping if we can weather through one term of them in office, it'd break it open for other alternative parties... Jul 06 19:13:06 rm_work, the Tea Party is mostly not that scary. Jul 06 19:13:12 General: If you had a many-party system, there would be complete lack of stability and comprehensive course Jul 06 19:13:15 But the media is pretty frightened of what they stand for. Jul 06 19:13:20 So makes them out to be as scary as possible. Jul 06 19:13:26 General: With the two-party system you get stability but also mediocrity Jul 06 19:13:34 RST38h, hahahaha Jul 06 19:13:36 good joke Jul 06 19:13:36 Notice that the protests in Greece are always described as "peaceful". Jul 06 19:13:50 GeneralAntilles: are they? Jul 06 19:13:53 and Tea Party protests are "violent". Jul 06 19:13:59 valdyn, the Greek protests? Jul 06 19:14:08 lol are they? :P Jul 06 19:14:15 Judge for yourself: http://www.google.com/search?oe=utf8&q=greece+protests&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1239&bih=901 Jul 06 19:14:16 General: Notice how whatever is happening in Kosovo is almost never described at all, for example Jul 06 19:14:32 Haven't been any firebombs at Tea Party-sponsored gathering as far as I'm aware. Jul 06 19:14:46 i don't know if what i've heard is via "the media" or not, but just the candidates i've seen are freakishly conservative Jul 06 19:14:52 GeneralAntilles: i mean, are they described as peaceful? That is not the case here Jul 06 19:14:56 General: And there are more examples like that. The employer tells these journos what to say and how to say it Jul 06 19:14:59 and i mean socially conservative, not fiscally Jul 06 19:15:03 rm_work, well, there are a lot of candidates trying to ride the rise of the movement. Jul 06 19:15:08 Who are crazy as all get out. Jul 06 19:15:13 Yeah, the socon shit has got to end. Jul 06 19:15:24 RST38h, what does Kosovo has with any of this? Jul 06 19:15:33 as a new nation they have their starting problems... Jul 06 19:15:47 so does the N950 have 1G actual RAM or is it actual RAM + swap? Jul 06 19:15:56 valdyn, see: http://reason.com/archives/2011/07/05/give-peace-a-chance Jul 06 19:15:57 ruskie: A random example of a topic whose coverage in the US is restricted Jul 06 19:16:05 GeneralAntilles: that's because no one hates the tea party enough to send them Jul 06 19:16:10 ruskie: There are more like that of course Jul 06 19:16:17 that doesn't mean a tea party member might not send a firebomb to someone else... Jul 06 19:16:22 RST38h, well does it really have any meaning to report about stuff from europe or asia in the US? Jul 06 19:16:41 ruskie: I do not know, you tell me: you seem to have an opinion on the subject Jul 06 19:16:42 frankly I don't expact to see news about the US or asia in europe Jul 06 19:16:45 GeneralAntilles: labeling the protests in greece as left is silly Jul 06 19:16:47 hiemanshu, actual RAM. Jul 06 19:16:55 half the candidates seem to be like "I want to ban gay marriage once and for all and overturn Roe vs. Wade" Jul 06 19:17:05 valdyn, protesting against austerity cuts? Jul 06 19:17:10 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/mailbag-why-i-cant-vote-for-ron-paul-20110502 Jul 06 19:17:11 GeneralAntilles: the RDA devices have 512 right? Jul 06 19:17:19 valdyn, I agree that "left" and "right" are pretty meaningless. Jul 06 19:17:23 hiemanshu, no idea. Jul 06 19:17:29 okay Jul 06 19:17:31 I paste that link particularly for the comments in it about Rand Paul, not Ron Paul. Jul 06 19:17:51 Hehe, finally, a link to Matt's blog :) Jul 06 19:18:25 once i compiled the code in SCBOX, and i can get one binary code and .o file, how do i run in my N900? Jul 06 19:18:39 i can run the binary file in xephyr. but how do i run it in my N900? Jul 06 19:18:40 RDA has 5 devices Jul 06 19:19:05 how do you run it in xephyr? it's a plugin Jul 06 19:19:18 valdyn, I think the Greek protests are a pretty strong signal that socialist policies in Europe aren't working. Jul 06 19:19:25 GeneralAntilles: no Jul 06 19:19:26 and should be .so Jul 06 19:19:26 MohammadAG, i just create a helloworld project in SCBox, and I can compile and run it in xephyr, however, when i copy the folder into my N900. how do i run it? Jul 06 19:19:44 same way Jul 06 19:19:49 RST38h, basically the main thing with Kosovo is their argmuntes with Serbia... and apparently they reached a few agreements about it recently Jul 06 19:19:54 GeneralAntilles: greece is broke because any government in greece in the last 40 years spent to much money Jul 06 19:19:56 i just open the xephyr, and run the project in SCBox, and it's shown helloworld Jul 06 19:20:00 GeneralAntilles: nothing left or right about that Jul 06 19:20:00 and frankly that gets boring pretty fast Jul 06 19:20:10 compile for armel Jul 06 19:20:21 sb-menu -> select armel Jul 06 19:20:27 GeneralAntilles: and extrapolating anything from greece to "europe" makes no sense Jul 06 19:20:40 the agreements they got together were about border crossing using only id cards and recognizing education from each other Jul 06 19:20:45 valdyn, generally excessive government spending is an attribute of the left. Jul 06 19:20:52 rather *yawnable* things Jul 06 19:20:53 No, ruskie, I am afraid it is *not* the main thing with Kosovo ... Jul 06 19:20:57 Excepting the past decade or so of the shift to the NEW right (neocons). Jul 06 19:21:27 GeneralAntilles: so the u.s.a. is left because it has the highest per capita debt ( japan exempt ) ? Jul 06 19:21:35 ruskie: And the actual main thing is far from boring Jul 06 19:21:46 do elaborate Jul 06 19:21:56 yes, i can get a .so file. Jul 06 19:21:59 I must admit that I don't follow the news very carefully Jul 06 19:22:00 ruskie: Going too far off topic here Jul 06 19:22:00 and then ? Jul 06 19:22:06 feel free to PM Jul 06 19:22:11 valdyn, most of the US spending is on income redistribution. Jul 06 19:22:27 valdyn, these are generally programs the left likes to push. Jul 06 19:22:41 GeneralAntilles: not in europe Jul 06 19:22:59 Europe is a messed up place. Jul 06 19:23:08 it is? Jul 06 19:23:15 I fear left/right are stumbling blocks here. Jul 06 19:23:39 ruskie, for my own taste, yes. Jul 06 19:23:44 GeneralAntilles: europe has left reducing "redistribution" and "right" doing the reverse, and vice vera Jul 06 19:23:48 GeneralAntilles: its not that simple Jul 06 19:24:09 ( i like redistribution ) Jul 06 19:24:16 Europe's "left" and "right" are the US's "far-left" and "left" Jul 06 19:24:22 Income redistribution is evil shit. Jul 06 19:24:27 Especially when it's conducted at gun point. Jul 06 19:24:53 What you want is not more income redistribution, it's fewer barriers to entry into the market. Jul 06 19:25:17 no, i want income redistribution Jul 06 19:25:29 and i happily pay my taxes Jul 06 19:25:33 i got it running !!!! Jul 06 19:25:44 valdyn, what I'm saying is that your basic world view is flawed. Jul 06 19:25:56 Income redistribution doesn't lead to anything productive. Jul 06 19:26:26 If you want all of your money to go to other people, then send it. Jul 06 19:26:31 GeneralAntilles: i think of my country as one of the most productive in the world, with one of highest redistribution rates of the world Jul 06 19:26:32 But don't make everybody else do so at gun point. Jul 06 19:26:35 GeneralAntilles: and i like it that way Jul 06 19:26:57 'course you do, it's emotionally satisfying Jul 06 19:26:59 Warm and fuzzy Jul 06 19:27:11 doesn't mean it's ethical or a good choice. Jul 06 19:27:46 GeneralAntilles: Excessive government spending is generally an attribute of those in power, left or right. Jul 06 19:27:56 derf, I agree. Jul 06 19:28:03 In fact the left has had a somewhat better record than the right in recent decades. Jul 06 19:28:05 I got trapped by left/right at the start of the discussion. Jul 06 19:28:20 Clinton actually balanced his budget. Jul 06 19:28:30 No other administration since the 80's has done so. Jul 06 19:28:31 Clinton had an economic boom to help him out. Jul 06 19:28:38 Yes, that certainly helped. Jul 06 19:28:46 Bush oversaw a huge increase in the size of government Jul 06 19:28:48 Also, not starting lots of long-term foreign wars helped. Jul 06 19:28:53 did he have less or just about the same amount of overseas wars going on Jul 06 19:28:54 and Obama is on his way to an even bigger one. Jul 06 19:29:10 (whatever you think about Kosovo, etc., at least it was short) Jul 06 19:29:42 derf: Basically, bombing is ok, especially using cheap drones Jul 06 19:30:01 derf: Placing people on the ground is stupid, unless you really want to colonize the place =) Jul 06 19:30:06 RST38h: Tell that to the civilians in Libiya, Yemen, Pakistan, ... Jul 06 19:30:11 *Libya Jul 06 19:30:38 I also maintain that these things are still not cheap. Jul 06 19:31:10 derf: You now better than me that nobody cares about little brown people Jul 06 19:31:24 derf: When there is a military budget to divide =) Jul 06 19:31:27 I wish we didn't! Jul 06 19:31:39 Then we wouldn't spend so much money trying to kill them. Jul 06 19:31:55 I still don't get Obama's logic in going into Libya. Jul 06 19:32:08 Setting aside his campaign-trail rhetoric. Jul 06 19:32:12 Still doesn't make a lot of sense. Jul 06 19:33:17 General: Ah, it is pretty simple if you take a few things into account Jul 06 19:34:06 General: There is a country whose leader US establishment absolutely hates but who is sitting on a lot of oil and can't be overthrown Jul 06 19:34:27 General: Then SUDDENLY there are people in Lybia fighting against him Jul 06 19:34:32 It'd be a helluva lot cheaper just to drill in the US. . . . Jul 06 19:34:49 this is more likely due to the usa not wanting france to have to much influence over that region Jul 06 19:34:50 General: The really high level US people do not care to conduct a real analysis of who these people are, how string, etc Jul 06 19:34:51 strong Jul 06 19:35:00 Apparently the CIA has been pouring a lot of money into starting these recent "Arab Dawn" uprisings. Jul 06 19:35:18 valdyn, why the hell would we care about France having influence in North Africa? Jul 06 19:35:31 GeneralAntilles: did they pour money into uprising in span or greece as well? Jul 06 19:35:35 spain* Jul 06 19:35:41 General: They see that all around Lybia the revolutions are successful, so they think"Ok, we help these Lybian chums just a little bit and they deliver us the head of their extremeleader" Jul 06 19:35:43 jacekowski, not from the story I was reading. Jul 06 19:35:47 * GeneralAntilles tries to find the link. Jul 06 19:36:01 General: Enter military deployment, drones, budgets, etc Jul 06 19:36:34 Google is, of course, useless. Jul 06 19:37:00 General: Then SUDDENLY they look closely and see that they are dealing with a bunch of tribal bandits not having great success against the tyrant Jul 06 19:37:09 GeneralAntilles: because theres huge business, just like after any war Jul 06 19:37:36 valdyn, mmm, if you say so. Jul 06 19:37:38 General: So, tell me, what an average US policy maker to do in this case? Jul 06 19:38:43 Clearly the answer is not ask for war authorization and continue to conduct the war anyway using insane legal "theories". Jul 06 19:39:03 Hehehe Jul 06 19:40:25 The problem with statues like the War Powers act is there's no credible enforcement mechanism, "Okay, so you broke the law. Now we can... tell you to stop?" Jul 06 19:41:25 *statutes Jul 06 19:41:41 Limited Government Jul 06 19:42:27 is there any battery information logger source code? Jul 06 19:42:46 General: ...won't help here Jul 06 19:43:41 holmesII: probably yes Jul 06 19:43:50 holmesII: there are few loggers Jul 06 19:43:52 please! Jul 06 19:43:52 General: Because there is a system of huge militry contractors, the career military personnel looking for advancement, the politicians who would like to look "strong on international policy", etc Jul 06 19:44:12 holmesII: and so you have to check on maemo.org the one you're using Jul 06 19:44:21 RST38h, hey, I'm trying to keep my cynicism under control. :P Jul 06 19:44:27 General: You can either kill 'em all off and end up in anarchy, or keep them and watch this daily circus Jul 06 19:45:32 Why isn't somebody is Mountain View working on these N950s? Jul 06 19:45:43 I mean, don't they want to get them to their application developers ASAP? Jul 06 19:46:01 their definition of asap might be different from yours =) Jul 06 19:46:26 "Two to three weeks" Jul 06 19:46:35 * GeneralAntilles waits patiently for his decoder ring. Jul 06 19:46:40 holmesII, dude, I already pointed you to a source Jul 06 19:46:42 GeneralAntilles: at least in that case it wont arrive while im away next week! Jul 06 19:47:33 GeneralAntilles: Re: N950's -- have you heard back regarding developer launchpad application? Jul 06 19:47:34 Jaffa, ping? Jul 06 19:47:42 Any idea what's drawing the DEVELOPER EDITION on the statusbar? Jul 06 19:47:43 im in meamo.org->development now, and searched battery logger. got nothing so far. but i am keep on trying it. Jul 06 19:47:50 npm, approved for LaunchPad today Jul 06 19:47:52 No device so far. Jul 06 19:48:03 oh... so do they send mail? Jul 06 19:48:32 Email when the N950 gets up on DDP Jul 06 19:49:09 hopefully i will getlanuchpad approved tomorrow then Jul 06 19:51:34 Jaffa, how bigs the hdd on the n950, 16gb? Jul 06 19:51:41 Noobmonk3y, already answered Jul 06 19:51:44 lol Jul 06 19:51:49 it's called an eMMC Jul 06 19:52:02 not HDD... Jul 06 19:52:15 thankeeeeeeeeees Jul 06 19:52:17 meh Jul 06 19:52:22 16GB Jul 06 19:52:37 Thanks Gen Jul 06 19:53:06 also, its 'how big is...' 'how bigs' doesnt even make sense ;) Jul 06 19:53:26 libhal-dev libprofile-dev libhildon1-dev libhildondesktop1-dev libhildonnotify-dev libdbus-1-dev Jul 06 19:53:37 holmesII, you need those installed ^ Jul 06 19:53:38 piggz... don't try to figure out what i mean, even i don't know......... Jul 06 19:53:51 but realistically, i just can't type....... Jul 06 19:53:58 :) Jul 06 19:54:03 has anybody tried gphoto2 with usb host mode? Jul 06 19:54:21 I would like to use my external camera for sending pics by email Jul 06 19:54:31 Noobmonk3y, I corrected your wiki page :P Jul 06 19:54:36 lots of 's and s mistakes Jul 06 19:54:37 dRN... I'M GONNA NEED A NEW F5 KEY SOON Jul 06 19:54:47 and I'd suggest using passive in the wiki Jul 06 19:54:48 MohammadAG, all of it? you pressed delete?! Jul 06 19:54:51 I or we doesn't work there Jul 06 19:54:52 i.e. I guess the question is, does n900 usb host mode support libusb Jul 06 19:54:54 ? Jul 06 19:54:59 Oh damn, now you are a grammar taecher lol Jul 06 19:55:01 teacher* Jul 06 19:55:20 Noobmonk3y, grammar nazi Jul 06 19:55:22 installed in N900 or where? Jul 06 19:55:27 ^^ Jul 06 19:55:28 What is it about the F5 key? Jul 06 19:55:39 MohammadAG, do you replace f5 keys too? Jul 06 19:55:40 Noobmonk3y: join the no F5 key club Jul 06 19:55:59 lol technically i think logging in / out is better then f5 in this case for some odd reason :P Jul 06 19:56:12 Noobmonk3y, I just took it out Jul 06 19:56:13 almost time for the pub :) yay ... no more f5'nessnessness Jul 06 19:56:17 lol Mo Jul 06 19:56:29 Noobmonk3y: also, use ctrl + r instead :P Jul 06 19:56:32 hehehe Jul 06 19:56:54 i'm pretty near the bottom of that list, but someone right at the bottom has his ordered an on it's way :( Pooooooooo! Jul 06 19:57:16 Noobmonk3y: I am hoping to have mine tomorrow :D Jul 06 19:57:31 hiemanshu, been ordered? Jul 06 19:57:43 Noobmonk3y: nope, email :P Jul 06 19:57:51 Noobmonk3y: because I got my LP yest afternoon Jul 06 19:57:52 ahhh well when ordered, you will be able to track ;) Jul 06 19:57:57 i got mine yesterday too Jul 06 19:58:03 no email yet :( - and no device appearing :( Jul 06 19:59:54 i am now using the VMWARE for scbox Jul 06 20:00:14 MohammadAG, yours on it's way yet? (Or already had it for a while? ;) ) Jul 06 20:01:36 GeneralAntilles: have you seen http://barefootandprogressive.blogspot.com/2010/07/wmlp-bingo.html Jul 06 20:02:00 timeless, "Teabagger" eh. Jul 06 20:02:31 night night :) - pub! Jul 06 20:02:38 General: Also see http://www.leftycartoons.com/the-24-types-of-libertarian/ Jul 06 20:03:05 http://theweek.com/article/index/202620/the-evolution-of-the-word-tea-bagger Jul 06 20:03:12 not my fault they're idiots :) Jul 06 20:03:31 timeless, mmmm Jul 06 20:03:52 I know a lot of people who would label themselves "Tea Party". They're far from idiots. :) Jul 06 20:04:04 Let's avoid the personal attacks, eh? Jul 06 20:04:33 General: and, to finish it off: http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/Peter-Fenn/2011/02/02/tea-party-funding-koch-brothers-emerge-from-anonymity Jul 06 20:04:49 Oh god Jul 06 20:04:58 Koch insanity. Jul 06 20:05:01 Idiots they may not be, but sellouts they definitely are... Jul 06 20:05:25 It's worse than Beck's idiocy with Soros. Jul 06 20:05:43 GeneralAntilles: the ones who chose the name without first checking to see if it had a meaning are... Jul 06 20:05:45 ... idiots Jul 06 20:05:55 nothing to do with others who might affiliate with its ideas Jul 06 20:06:21 it's like the guys who decided to name a platform "MeeGo" without first discovering that it was in fact a failed tv show Jul 06 20:06:27 The fact that the mainstream media can get away with using an insult like that is a bit incredible, though. Jul 06 20:06:44 it wasn't used initially as an insult Jul 06 20:06:49 Yes it was. Jul 06 20:06:52 and it was used by members of the party Jul 06 20:07:07 did you read theweek.com/article/index/202620/the-evolution-of-the-word-tea-bagger ? Jul 06 20:07:10 It's been used by people who don't understand what it's a euphemism on. Jul 06 20:07:25 yes, including older party members Jul 06 20:07:43 only when they realized it did they realize that it wasn't a good thing to embrace Jul 06 20:07:49 BTW, you are fighting over wording rather than the essence of what these guys are Jul 06 20:08:03 Anyway, yes, this is rather pointless. Jul 06 20:08:07 Don't like "teabaggers"? Use "grassroot libertarians" or something Jul 06 20:08:15 RST38h: GeneralAntilles objected to me collectively labeling them as idiots Jul 06 20:08:20 Well, except a lot of the movement isn't actually libertarian. Jul 06 20:08:24 Too much socon bullshit for that. Jul 06 20:08:31 timeless: that was bad, bad of you! Jul 06 20:08:44 most of it is socon (wolf) masked in libertarian "sheep" clothing Jul 06 20:08:50 there are some packages that i can't install either in N900 or my sdk virtual machine. Jul 06 20:09:14 btw, Social Conservative or Southern Conservative? :) Jul 06 20:09:22 same thing, no? Jul 06 20:09:27 holmesII: are they arm-xx ? Jul 06 20:09:29 Not really. Jul 06 20:09:48 Well, one mostly observes lefties in the north Jul 06 20:09:49 actually, that wouldn't make sense, since the n900 is arm... Jul 06 20:09:54 holmesII, read instructions on how to add nokia-binaries repo Jul 06 20:09:54 holmesII: what packages? Jul 06 20:10:02 ~maemosdk Jul 06 20:10:02 from memory, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation Jul 06 20:10:14 libprofile-dev Jul 06 20:10:49 and i cant' install all the packages in my virtual machine image(desktop). Jul 06 20:11:25 few people want software freedom or political freedom Jul 06 20:11:26 holmesII: MohammadAG guessed right.. Jul 06 20:11:40 Maybe 10%? Jul 06 20:11:43 Few people understand what it entails. Jul 06 20:12:02 timeless: i thought a teabagger was something very different! Jul 06 20:12:07 more work :) Jul 06 20:12:19 piggz: it has two interesting meanings Jul 06 20:12:28 one is interesting because it's hated by the other Jul 06 20:12:34 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabag Jul 06 20:12:49 and the second is interesting because it was carelessly adopted by a group which hated the former Jul 06 20:12:49 or, use the free n900 urban dictionary app on ovi store Jul 06 20:13:09 piggz: yeah, that's def:1 Jul 06 20:13:15 i was pointing to def:2 Jul 06 20:13:24 heh Jul 06 20:13:25 which admitteldy had a shorter shelf life Jul 06 20:13:30 how many N900s did nokia sell? Couldnt they sell approx as many n950 units? Jul 06 20:13:38 s/ldy/dly/ Jul 06 20:13:38 timeless meant: which admittedly had a shorter shelf life Jul 06 20:13:47 MySpaez: they can not sell remotely close Jul 06 20:14:19 Did many non-linux people buy the N900? Jul 06 20:14:43 night Jul 06 20:15:01 How many of you have N900s and do not want a N950? Jul 06 20:15:09 Nite Jul 06 20:15:16 MySpaez: the volumes of n900 were incredibly high for a device w/ relatively little marketing Jul 06 20:15:22 however officially the volumes are a corporate secret Jul 06 20:15:31 Ok Jul 06 20:15:40 the n950 is designed as a developer device Jul 06 20:15:45 to be produced in incredibly small numbers Jul 06 20:15:53 (at least as of the last info drop i had before leaving Nokia) Jul 06 20:16:02 You recipients are lucky few Jul 06 20:16:09 * timeless shrugs Jul 06 20:16:21 What are you doing now timeless? Jul 06 20:16:29 You are the browser guy? Jul 06 20:17:04 Browsing made N900 famous Jul 06 20:17:05 I work for RIM on Web Standards Jul 06 20:17:24 so basically I still work on browsers, but from a slightly more meta- level Jul 06 20:17:25 timeless: i got a company blackberry Jul 06 20:17:31 :) Jul 06 20:17:38 timeless: and i don't understand what people like about them Jul 06 20:17:49 jacekowski: which one do you have? Jul 06 20:17:52 i am happy you are in a leadwrship position timeless Jul 06 20:18:05 timeless: how do i check it Jul 06 20:18:10 well, i don't know that i'd call it a leadership position Jul 06 20:18:27 although technically my title does have 'Manager' in it ('Standards Manager') Jul 06 20:18:31 timeless: and way you configure email on it is braindead as well Jul 06 20:18:49 jacekowski: i installed the GMail java app on mine Jul 06 20:18:57 it works as well or better than it did on the N88 Jul 06 20:18:59 s/88/8/ Jul 06 20:18:59 timeless meant: it works as well or better than it did on the N8 Jul 06 20:19:10 and since the N900 and friends don't come w/ Java, there's no comparison.. Jul 06 20:19:21 timeless: 8310 Jul 06 20:19:45 jacekowski: http://www.laptopmag.com/mobile-life/which-blackberry-is-right-for-you.aspx is what google suggested to me Jul 06 20:20:03 timeless: my father had blackberry storm Jul 06 20:20:07 timeless: and i didn't like it either Jul 06 20:20:10 google says yours is a Curve Jul 06 20:20:14 java still makes me wince Jul 06 20:20:24 it didn't even had wifi Jul 06 20:20:43 MySpaez: given the choice of having some apps that work Jul 06 20:20:52 or relying on rare open source devs to try to port to a platform Jul 06 20:20:56 i might seriously consider java Jul 06 20:21:06 i see the point Jul 06 20:21:12 note that Twitter is increasing its use of Java (server side) Jul 06 20:21:12 I got the meaning. I ignored some steps in the instructions. Jul 06 20:21:24 oh server side is fine Jul 06 20:21:26 thank you to timeless and MohammadAG Jul 06 20:21:37 timeless: and email sync is only one way Jul 06 20:21:46 jacekowski: only one way? Jul 06 20:21:55 MohammedAG you are a great community contributor Jul 06 20:21:58 timeless: if i read email in my outlook it's not showing as read on the phone Jul 06 20:22:07 jacekowski: for me it generally does Jul 06 20:22:10 timeless: but if i read it on the phone it shows as read in outlook Jul 06 20:22:34 if it doesn't, go to mail, tap the BB button, and select..."Reconcile Now" Jul 06 20:22:46 it does sync emails Jul 06 20:22:54 i use the e71 again since it lasts all day with music and podcasts Jul 06 20:22:58 it's just not syncing read/unread statuses Jul 06 20:23:03 jacekowski: this is w/ an Exchange server backend, right? Jul 06 20:23:06 and it's not only mine Jul 06 20:23:09 timeless: yes Jul 06 20:23:24 because i was having get a bit stale, and was told that's what I needed to do Jul 06 20:23:30 and it seemed to work when i tried it Jul 06 20:23:37 timeless: it's not only mine bb that does that Jul 06 20:23:46 if it's consistently not working in your company's environment Jul 06 20:23:49 timeless: and i've done factory reset when i got the phone Jul 06 20:23:53 then it'd be good if you filed a ticket Jul 06 20:24:03 of some sort, offhand, i'd hope it's a config error somewhere Jul 06 20:24:08 because it definitely should work Jul 06 20:24:10 timeless: it works fine with N900 Jul 06 20:24:13 and it definitely generally works for everyone here Jul 06 20:24:16 timeless: was it you who managed mxr ? Jul 06 20:24:16 timeless: and everything else Jul 06 20:24:24 DocScrutinizer: yeah Jul 06 20:24:31 DocScrutinizer: i need to get sp3000 to adopt it Jul 06 20:24:39 i can't figure out if he's on vacation or what Jul 06 20:24:45 do you think mxr.maemo.org could use a harmattan branch? Jul 06 20:24:50 DocScrutinizer: is this mxr.maemo or mxr.meego? Jul 06 20:24:56 timeless, isn't a phone easier? Jul 06 20:25:07 GeneralAntilles: isn't a phone easier for what? Jul 06 20:25:11 * timeless lost track of context Jul 06 20:25:12 is this really meego harmattan now? ;-D Jul 06 20:25:27 DocScrutinizer: iirc there's an mxr.meego.com/maemo.gitorious.org/ Jul 06 20:25:41 :-o thanks Jul 06 20:25:51 if there's something else you want hosted on mxr.maemo.org, give me instructions and i'll see if i can get it on mxr.maemo.org at some point Jul 06 20:25:54 timeless, tracking down sp3000. Jul 06 20:25:56 note that it'd have to be a Sunday Jul 06 20:26:10 GeneralAntilles: Nokia had an international calling plan Jul 06 20:26:21 sadly, I don't have that here Jul 06 20:26:24 Ah Jul 06 20:26:27 anyone want to trade their n8 for my n900 Jul 06 20:26:34 ? Jul 06 20:26:42 pauly_: hrm, i have an n8... Jul 06 20:26:47 where are you Jul 06 20:26:51 and why do you think you want it Jul 06 20:26:54 usa Jul 06 20:26:59 (you almost certainly don't, it mostly sucks) Jul 06 20:27:04 12mp Jul 06 20:27:21 you're ok w/ the bump @back for the camera? Jul 06 20:27:35 usa is kinda large, which region? Jul 06 20:27:37 idk never held one Jul 06 20:27:38 (i'm in Toronto) Jul 06 20:27:45 md Jul 06 20:27:49 near dc Jul 06 20:27:55 near Rockville? Jul 06 20:28:05 * timeless plays red-line games Jul 06 20:28:08 pauly_: tldya you'll find someone Jul 06 20:28:12 what color, how many gig Jul 06 20:28:25 Silver, and i can't remember, it's an alarm clock @home Jul 06 20:28:38 whatever was corporate issue @nokia ~6 months ago Jul 06 20:29:04 DocScrutinizer: thanks Jul 06 20:29:28 fwiw, it has the NAm regional variant as opposed to some EU region Jul 06 20:29:31 well if its an alarm clock u wanna trade for a broken n900 instead lol Jul 06 20:29:31 i have two Jul 06 20:29:50 i'd be much more interested in trading for a working n900.. Jul 06 20:30:05 ya lol Jul 06 20:30:12 u say it sucks Jul 06 20:30:27 it's an alarm clock because i use a BlackBerry Torch and an n900 Jul 06 20:30:27 pauly_: you say N900 sucks ;-P Jul 06 20:30:28 idk i like sinplicity Jul 06 20:30:38 lol Jul 06 20:30:40 true Jul 06 20:30:41 (mostly the Torch actually) Jul 06 20:31:10 at this point in time, i mostly need: Gmail, Gmaps, + Browser Jul 06 20:31:29 why dont u like n8? Jul 06 20:31:31 pauly_: timeless worked for Nokia until recently, his N8 is most probably OK Jul 06 20:31:34 and while the google maps web interfaces work, the java ones are better Jul 06 20:31:42 pauly_: do you have facebook? Jul 06 20:31:54 someone here should be able to find you a link for my n8 gallery Jul 06 20:32:00 (it's in the channel logs too) Jul 06 20:32:01 thanks doc Jul 06 20:32:18 can i call u doc cause im lazy Jul 06 20:32:29 ME???? Jul 06 20:32:56 hey, I'm Marty McFly doc. Jul 06 20:33:00 I'm not even really here atm Jul 06 20:33:04 take me to the future doc! Jul 06 20:33:14 do I look cool or what? Jul 06 20:33:19 btw, evening. Jul 06 20:33:22 yes u Jul 06 20:33:24 ugh no but i gots twitter Jul 06 20:33:25 lol Jul 06 20:34:00 not certain Jul 06 20:34:05 pauly_: i think you can probably find a summary of my n8 notes in the channel logs Jul 06 20:34:12 you can definitely get a nice view of them if you load the gallery Jul 06 20:34:15 timeless: wanna trade, i want something fresh and n8 seems fresh Jul 06 20:34:19 sadly that's trapped in the Facebook walled Garden Jul 06 20:34:36 pauly_: if your n900 was working, i might consider it Jul 06 20:34:45 i barely use maemo org i only come in the irc chat Jul 06 20:34:49 but it sounds like it is Jul 06 20:34:51 it does Jul 06 20:34:53 i have two Jul 06 20:35:03 javispedro, did you get a DHL number yet? Jul 06 20:35:05 im on mine now in the webchat Jul 06 20:35:12 ah Jul 06 20:35:14 hrm... maybe Jul 06 20:35:21 how much of a hurry are you in? Jul 06 20:35:29 not really Jul 06 20:35:32 a hurry Jul 06 20:35:50 im just never sastisfied Jul 06 20:35:54 i'll have family traveling up from your area sometime this summer.. Jul 06 20:36:20 GeneralAntilles: nah, /me hopes tomorrow morning Jul 06 20:36:43 with any phone i have Jul 06 20:37:06 btw the proximity sensor on this isnt the best? its spotty Jul 06 20:37:18 one question to timeless/MohammadAG, you said i need to install all those packages. I can install those in scbox, however, when i tried install those in my terminal, i can't find it. So, did i miss something there? (all those I did in the SDK dekstop virtual machine, not in N900 yet) Jul 06 20:38:02 holmesII: installing the nokia repo doesn't install everything from the repo Jul 06 20:38:10 it adds another repo from which you can get the other bits Jul 06 20:38:13 javispedro, ah, good, at least you haven't gotten one yet. Jul 06 20:38:32 wouldn't that be cool too? :D Jul 06 20:38:33 yay an n8 Jul 06 20:38:35 depending on what you've done, you could need to apt-get update or something Jul 06 20:38:59 yes. i follow the instruction and add the nokia repo, i can install the packages in my scbox. but i can't get some packages in my terminal Jul 06 20:39:01 ill probleby miss my n900 but its okay ill get the n9 or something else Jul 06 20:39:21 * timeless wonders what's been announced about the n9 Jul 06 20:39:54 oh right, they announced it doesn't have a keyboard Jul 06 20:40:00 timeless: im so excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jul 06 20:40:16 pauly_: this isn't a promise Jul 06 20:40:21 i kinda need to think about it Jul 06 20:40:29 timeless: i know Jul 06 20:40:41 but i can probably send it down and let you play w/ it for a week or even a month Jul 06 20:40:53 thankfully at this point i have 2 chances to see my folks Jul 06 20:41:07 which means a swap can be arranged between the two meetings :) Jul 06 20:41:10 timeless, http://swipe.nokia.com Jul 06 20:41:29 cool Jul 06 20:41:29 easier then shipping Jul 06 20:42:18 pauly_: the n8 comes w/ a mini-hdmi to hdmi adapter, but that's currently in a box in a warehouse somewhere here Jul 06 20:42:32 and it's probably easier for you to grab one locally than have me include it Jul 06 20:42:37 timeless: no worries Jul 06 20:43:29 all i do is take pics surf craigslist and post pics on twitter Jul 06 20:43:38 so n8 should be nice Jul 06 20:45:00 surfing w/ the n8 is um... Jul 06 20:45:02 not recommended Jul 06 20:45:19 at least not w/ the native browser Jul 06 20:45:34 You're encouraged to try Opera Mobile/Opera Mini Jul 06 20:45:40 you might find those acceptable Jul 06 20:46:09 also, there was a promised UI refresh for the n8 (afaiu), but afaict, it never arrived Jul 06 20:46:12 isnt it "the flagship" Jul 06 20:46:19 Nokia and promises.... .... Jul 06 20:46:42 timeless: you mean the anna thing? last time it was scheduled for next month Jul 06 20:46:52 isnt it coming on the anna update? Jul 06 20:46:54 javispedro: oh, it has a schedule? Jul 06 20:46:57 interesting Jul 06 20:47:16 i wonder if there will be an anna update for my ageing 5800 :D Jul 06 20:47:20 ya and a new browser? Jul 06 20:47:28 lol Jul 06 20:47:29 * timeless shrugs Jul 06 20:47:37 they were working on a new browser all of last year Jul 06 20:47:41 to be the company-wide browser Jul 06 20:47:52 it didn't ship before the WP7 announcement (which includes IE) Jul 06 20:48:01 timeless: you dont work for nokia anymore? Jul 06 20:48:07 no idea if it's included in anna (I know nothing about anna) Jul 06 20:48:09 trumee: correct Jul 06 20:48:21 timeless: after elops fiasco? Jul 06 20:48:40 trumee: actually, my writing was on the wall earlier Jul 06 20:48:46 we lost a power struggle w/ the company-wide webkit browser in December Jul 06 20:48:54 so I needed to find a new boat Jul 06 20:49:13 i don't find elop's logic or reasoning bad Jul 06 20:49:23 it may be unfortunate for certain teams Jul 06 20:49:28 anna Jul 06 20:49:30 but he didn't have any better choices Jul 06 20:49:36 is hottt lol Jul 06 20:50:41 timeless: nice read, http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2011/07/wanna-be-nokia-ceo-take-the-simple-quiz-to-see-if-youre-qualified.html Jul 06 20:50:41 really, the maemo-meego group was screwed by others between the CEO and the maemo-meego management Jul 06 20:51:08 * timeless clicks Jul 06 20:51:16 heh Jul 06 20:51:17 S'too bad Jul 06 20:51:35 I'm worried we wont have any reasonable options for mobile open source anytime soon. Jul 06 20:52:07 Is N9 worse than N800? Jul 06 20:52:13 What? Jul 06 20:52:17 Oh Jul 06 20:52:25 Um, no, after Nokia drops MeeGo. Jul 06 20:52:27 MySpaez: if you require a hardware keyboard? Jul 06 20:52:45 I still have the stowaway Jul 06 20:53:03 * timeless doesn't know if the n9 supports bluetooth keyboards Jul 06 20:53:13 timeless, qgil says yes. Jul 06 20:54:39 MySpaez: i have a stowaway as well but i never liked it Jul 06 20:55:07 MySpaez: The Fn keys and keyboard layout is weird Jul 06 20:55:52 trumee .. Limited alternatives Jul 06 20:59:45 hello Jul 06 21:00:15 moo Jul 06 21:00:48 trumee: interesting Jul 06 21:00:54 trumee: that quiz is hilarious Jul 06 21:01:39 timeless: your blog does not work :/ Jul 06 21:01:57 pauly_: ? Jul 06 21:02:12 timeless.justdave.net/blog seems to work Jul 06 21:02:20 is there something linking to viper? Jul 06 21:02:27 ya Jul 06 21:02:37 if it's an infobot, please fix it Jul 06 21:03:17 its from this http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Timeless Jul 06 21:03:43 ah, that's a wiki, please feel free to update the link Jul 06 21:06:08 trumee: some of those are false dichotomy Jul 06 21:06:18 the Maemo line has generally had Skype Jul 06 21:06:24 but historically it wasn't sold through operators Jul 06 21:06:32 i presume the n9 has Skype Jul 06 21:07:02 if an operator really wants to boycott skype, it would boycott the n9 too Jul 06 21:07:08 timeless: *nod* Jul 06 21:07:25 also, it's unclear that operators matter much Jul 06 21:07:41 beyond forcing a company that makes mobile phones to waste money to bend to its whims Jul 06 21:07:45 timeless: i like that Three in the UK have skype as a standard feature on their handsets Jul 06 21:07:45 updated! Jul 06 21:07:52 wow Jul 06 21:08:22 also, it's not like the n9 is available for sale today Jul 06 21:08:27 is there a current estimate? Jul 06 21:08:42 because Q#5 suggests N.WP7 would be Dec Jul 06 21:08:54 timeless: rumour of Nov release iirc Jul 06 21:08:56 if n9 has the same general arrival date, then Q#5 is silly Jul 06 21:09:20 and a one month variation hardly matters from the perspective of the question Jul 06 21:10:04 Q#6 ignores the fact that you're probably paying *negative* money on your initial phones Jul 06 21:10:19 as it sounds like MS provided a rather large initial subsidy to N Jul 06 21:10:52 one question. is hildon for widget use? i found one source code which doesn't need hildon Jul 06 21:11:13 intersting, on the launchpad application page i now get...You are already a member of this program, there is no need to re-apply. Jul 06 21:11:53 trumee: and pointing to the n8... gah, did you see my fb gallery? :) Jul 06 21:12:10 timeless: link? Jul 06 21:15:15 piggz: which means your launchpad was accepted Jul 06 21:15:18 sadly facebook is a walled garden Jul 06 21:15:49 hiemanshu: yes, i figured :) Jul 06 21:16:00 timeless: my dream device is N9 hardware + hwk +fmtx Jul 06 21:16:01 n8 :) Jul 06 21:16:02 piggz: now, stand in the queue :D Jul 06 21:16:24 no devices yet though :( Jul 06 21:16:29 trumee: where you got information that N9 has no fmtx? Jul 06 21:16:45 where did you get* Jul 06 21:16:50 jacekowski: read somewhere that there is no antenna for fmtx Jul 06 21:17:02 jacekowski: on the meego forums i think Jul 06 21:17:12 nobody has N9 yet Jul 06 21:17:21 so i wouldn't be so sure about that Jul 06 21:17:21 how often do you need / use fmtx? Jul 06 21:17:28 keep in mind that i've never owned a Car Jul 06 21:17:29 trumee: every day Jul 06 21:17:31 timeless: everyday Jul 06 21:17:37 trumee: for? Jul 06 21:17:47 trumee: hands free in a car Jul 06 21:17:55 timeless: driving to work, and listening to my internet radio Jul 06 21:17:57 trumee: using my stero Jul 06 21:17:59 how old is your car? Jul 06 21:18:02 trumee: listening to music Jul 06 21:18:09 timeless: old Jul 06 21:18:13 does it have a casette player? Jul 06 21:18:22 * timeless presumes it doesn't have bluetooth Jul 06 21:18:26 no Jul 06 21:18:31 it's just pure radio Jul 06 21:18:39 how old? :) Jul 06 21:18:44 12 years Jul 06 21:18:57 and these cassette adapters don't really work well Jul 06 21:19:00 so the play you are at has sad radio stations no one wants to listen to? :P Jul 06 21:19:02 hrm, new enough that you chose to skip the casette player because it was going out of style? Jul 06 21:19:09 s/play/place/ Jul 06 21:19:10 hiemanshu meant: so the place you are at has sad radio stations no one wants to listen to? :P Jul 06 21:19:29 timeless: i do use casette adaptor too. Jul 06 21:19:32 most cars these days have bluetoorh/USB Jul 06 21:19:37 timeless: as far as i know cassette player was an extra you had to pay for Jul 06 21:19:49 * timeless nods Jul 06 21:20:03 hiemanshu: and bluetooth A2DP quality sucks Jul 06 21:20:13 jacekowski: not really no Jul 06 21:20:16 yes it does Jul 06 21:20:28 I use bluetooth headsets for my music all day long Jul 06 21:20:30 using em now Jul 06 21:20:38 then you have low requirements Jul 06 21:21:04 hah, ok Jul 06 21:21:30 a2dp has bitrate that is half of CD bitrate Jul 06 21:21:49 are we all still in 2002? Jul 06 21:22:01 no Jul 06 21:22:02 * timeless wonders when China Mobile joined MeeGo Jul 06 21:22:07 * timeless remembers it joined but not when Jul 06 21:22:21 a2dp is 100% for music Jul 06 21:22:28 fine* Jul 06 21:22:34 no it's not Jul 06 21:22:39 yep it is Jul 06 21:22:43 it has less than half of CD bitrate Jul 06 21:22:47 so? Jul 06 21:22:57 You hear bitrate or what? Jul 06 21:23:12 yes Jul 06 21:23:17 lol Jul 06 21:23:22 no, you hear music Jul 06 21:23:38 because sample rate depends directly on bitrate Jul 06 21:23:40 really, bitrate makes no sense Jul 06 21:23:58 An I can bet you can't tell the difference between CD and mp3 on the street Jul 06 21:24:08 or while running Jul 06 21:24:10 wazd: depends on bitrate Jul 06 21:24:12 or biking Jul 06 21:24:17 you just can't Jul 06 21:24:25 wazd: if it's 192kbps mp3 then i can't Jul 06 21:24:34 I'm not talking about 64kbps Jul 06 21:24:37 jacekowski: ok, what is the CD bitrate? Jul 06 21:24:39 sure Jul 06 21:24:42 wazd: but on 96kbps you can tell the difference Jul 06 21:24:46 hiemanshu: 150kB/s Jul 06 21:25:26 hi. when you flash just the initfs with flasher-3.5 you lose the sw-version info, i.e. control-panel -> product info. how to fix this? Jul 06 21:25:35 jacekowski: hmmm, there is 150 at all, CDs are 160, older ones at 96 Jul 06 21:25:36 A2DP has 345kb/s Jul 06 21:25:45 hiemanshu: BS Jul 06 21:25:53 hiemanshu: all CDs are 150kB/s Jul 06 21:26:13 jacekowski: are you sure? Jul 06 21:26:18 They are. Jul 06 21:26:21 yes Jul 06 21:26:33 _all_ audio CDs are 16 bit 44.1KHz Jul 06 21:26:38 Some are mono though Jul 06 21:26:44 Very few though Jul 06 21:26:46 hiemanshu: that was first standard that came out for CDs Jul 06 21:26:53 hiemanshu: called Red Book Jul 06 21:27:03 hiemanshu: and there was no CDs before that Jul 06 21:27:03 Seriously, you're able to notice deleted frequencies thru the street noise? :) Jul 06 21:27:28 You should write symphonies then, what the hell are you doing here Jul 06 21:27:29 wazd: it's about artefacts that it introduces Jul 06 21:27:46 jacekowski: umm, 150 is not a multiple of 16 Jul 06 21:27:53 hiemanshu: roughly Jul 06 21:28:01 jacekowski: CDs are 160 Jul 06 21:28:03 no Jul 06 21:28:09 jacekowski: 150 is the cd data bitrage, not audio Jul 06 21:28:27 jacekowski: you can rip CDs upto 192 Jul 06 21:28:29 1x speed, the completely useless metric Jul 06 21:28:32 jacekowski: please check it Jul 06 21:28:40 you're talking about different things Jul 06 21:28:44 but anyway ;) Jul 06 21:28:52 The audio bit rate is 1411.2 kbit/s ( but maybe wikipedia is lieing ) Jul 06 21:28:55 hiemanshu: you are mistaking bits for bytes Jul 06 21:28:58 achipa: please don't interrupt w/ sense Jul 06 21:29:16 jacekowski: also FM is 96 Jul 06 21:29:23 and AM is 32 Jul 06 21:29:30 timeless: oh, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt the popcorn session ;) Jul 06 21:29:35 hiemanshu: BS Jul 06 21:29:37 I thought FM is 64 Jul 06 21:29:38 hiemanshu: FM is analogue Jul 06 21:29:42 hiemanshu: bitrate is infinite Jul 06 21:29:46 wtf Jul 06 21:29:48 troll Jul 06 21:29:50 * hiemanshu leaves Jul 06 21:30:18 no, you can't compare analogue signal to any bitrate Jul 06 21:30:33 * SpeedEvil drops Claude Shannon on jacekowski. Jul 06 21:30:49 vynil fan eh? Jul 06 21:30:53 because you have infinite amount of levels Jul 06 21:31:13 There is a finite SNR on most real channels. Jul 06 21:31:29 and your "sample" rate is only limited by your bandwidth Jul 06 21:31:45 but there is no way to compare it directly to any bitrate Jul 06 21:31:50 Signal-noise ratio sets effective number of bits of those samples. Jul 06 21:32:15 javispedro: is there any portable lamp-based vinyl player for joggers? :D Jul 06 21:32:29 javispedro: cause I'm an audionerd Jul 06 21:33:03 and I don't know how to spell vynil correctly :( Jul 06 21:33:04 * javispedro is not exactly a vinyl fan.... ;P Jul 06 21:33:11 wazd: actually, you are more correct than me. Jul 06 21:33:37 derf: interesting Jul 06 21:33:58 valdyn: 150 data bitrate is strictly related to audio bitrate Jul 06 21:34:00 so in summary you supported the FTC chief's (initial) view that ex-ante is the way to go Jul 06 21:34:22 wazd: so how is the idea of open swipe coming along? :P Jul 06 21:34:45 valdyn: as you have 150k effective data bitrate, if you add all correction data that's not used on audio, you end up with your audio bitrate Jul 06 21:35:11 timeless: I guess that's as good a one-sentence caveat as any. Jul 06 21:35:31 hiemanshu: Sometimes I feel like Tyler Derden, people ususally ask me for things I don't even know :D Jul 06 21:35:33 1411.2kbits/second Jul 06 21:35:41 The problem as I see it is relying on SSO rules and participation to enforce such a thing is useless. Jul 06 21:35:47 176400 bytes/second Jul 06 21:35:53 * timeless nods Jul 06 21:36:08 but the facts are that a2dp bitrate is significantly lower than that Jul 06 21:36:13 wazd: you were the one with the blog post of the idea like what nokia came up with on N9, or am I wrong? Jul 06 21:36:19 yes, but who cares Jul 06 21:36:21 derf: hrm Jul 06 21:36:29 wazd: he does Jul 06 21:36:57 jacekowski: Part of the problem is also that SBC is terrible. Jul 06 21:37:01 if your bitrate is 4x lower than CD bitrate Jul 06 21:37:02 derf: what's your view on the ? Jul 06 21:37:02 hiemanshu: aw, that was more than a year ago, so I'm just happy it has been used. Or not :) Jul 06 21:37:26 wazd: hah, well it would be nice to ahve a open swipe UX :P Jul 06 21:37:48 it's not even significantly lower than cd bitrate, it's a magnitude lower :P Jul 06 21:37:50 wazd: just license it with a condition (YOU FUCKING USE IT ON ANDROID, PAY ME MONIES TO BUY THE WORLD) Jul 06 21:38:07 you will hear it, esspecialy if you heard it with proper equipment before Jul 06 21:38:10 hiemanshu: well, I'm not 100% happy with this concept Jul 06 21:38:30 wazd: if you were, it would have been implemented :P Jul 06 21:38:31 hiemanshu: cause it blocks developers from using this gesture within apps Jul 06 21:38:37 anyone know how to fix things so the sw-version isn't zapped with when you flash with fanoush? Jul 06 21:38:46 wazd: use 2/3 finger swiping Jul 06 21:39:00 wazd: make it configurable, something nokia missed Jul 06 21:39:26 hiemanshu: if you'll disable it - you won't be able to close or minimize app Jul 06 21:39:42 oh Jul 06 21:39:43 fuck me Jul 06 21:39:50 i've spent 100 quid on phone last month Jul 06 21:39:56 disabling it sounds like a bad idea. You want something that always works for getting out of an app, like ctrl-backspace on N900 :P Jul 06 21:40:01 wow Jul 06 21:40:02 by calling my insurers on 0845 numbers Jul 06 21:40:03 wazd: no disabling, just configuring like 1) edge of the screen 2) number of fingers, etc Jul 06 21:40:20 and spending like 30 minutes each call just listeining to they on hold music Jul 06 21:40:22 mancha: no clue what you're talking bout Jul 06 21:40:23 what's 0845? is that like 1900? Jul 06 21:40:23 timeless: Well, that's a) not a standard and b) Kearns went to them to get them to license the idea before they used it, so it's not like they didn't know about the patent. Jul 06 21:40:29 hiemanshu: yep, that makes more sense Jul 06 21:40:44 DocScrutinizer51: so whats the status of your device? out of the airport yet? Jul 06 21:40:53 anyway, a2dp rules, Canon suxx, good night :D Jul 06 21:40:54 yes Jul 06 21:41:04 wazd: night Jul 06 21:41:11 DocScrutinizer51: so you'll have it tomorrow Jul 06 21:41:12 :D Jul 06 21:41:17 * timeless wonders if there are cars w/o it Jul 06 21:41:32 DocScrutinizer51: btw when you get it, hug it hard and give aegis some love Jul 06 21:41:40 * timeless vaguely wonders if ABS is covered by patents Jul 06 21:41:44 timeless: these are sort of like 0800 numbers Jul 06 21:41:46 There might have been in the 80's! Jul 06 21:41:52 DocScrutinizer51: ah, another Bastard :D Jul 06 21:41:53 timeless, cars without intermittent windshield wiper? Yes. Jul 06 21:41:53 timeless: like reduced rate and stuff Jul 06 21:41:55 Or the 70's, more likely. Jul 06 21:41:57 my guess is that some do Jul 06 21:42:00 timeless: from landline Jul 06 21:42:05 DocScrutinizer51: congrats :) Jul 06 21:42:18 timeless: but from mobile you have to pay more for them Jul 06 21:42:19 jacekowski: in the usa, 1800 numbers are "toll free", from anything Jul 06 21:42:26 (minus general airtime costs) Jul 06 21:42:29 moo wazd Jul 06 21:42:34 RST38h: o/ Jul 06 21:42:39 i had assumed that 1800 mapped to 0800 Jul 06 21:42:43 Cheaper toyotas have "Wipe" - 0 - Lowspeed - Highspeed. The "Wipe" position returns to 0 by a spring, and it wipes once. :P Jul 06 21:43:04 timeless: thing is that normal numbers are free free Jul 06 21:43:18 grr Jul 06 21:43:22 timeless: 0845 numbers are not included in my allowance so i pay for them Jul 06 21:43:26 RST38h: Btw, I have to ask you to send me all Ati85 faceplates if you still have them cause I've f*cked them up :( Jul 06 21:43:29 so it costs you more to dial a number that was free from a land line Jul 06 21:43:34 than it does to dial a general number? Jul 06 21:43:39 timeless: yes Jul 06 21:43:45 bravo Jul 06 21:43:49 excellent system you have there Jul 06 21:44:01 do you pay for data? Jul 06 21:44:04 no Jul 06 21:44:10 skype to 0800 numbers is free :) Jul 06 21:44:18 that's a reason why in some countries you can't dial 0800 numbers from mobiles Jul 06 21:44:31 because they could never agree who would pay and how much Jul 06 21:44:47 wazd: No problem, what address? Jul 06 21:44:47 * timeless sighs Jul 06 21:44:59 ... that isn't civilization Jul 06 21:45:01 ... that's insanity Jul 06 21:45:39 Then the local telephone company has bunch of numbers just like local numbers, and but it's free to call from local telephone company's subscriber lines Jul 06 21:46:20 jacekowski: There are some sites listing local dial numbers for the 0845s Jul 06 21:46:28 RST38h: drew.zhilin[at]gmail.com , thanks a lot Jul 06 21:46:33 SpeedEvil: bit late for that now Jul 06 21:46:37 jacekowski: :/ Jul 06 21:46:42 SpeedEvil: i wasn't expecting for it to cost that much Jul 06 21:47:04 RST38h: have to take a nap, cya tomorrow :) Jul 06 21:47:08 but i've spent in total 250 minutes "talking" to them Jul 06 21:47:09 cya all Jul 06 21:47:15 wazd: sent Jul 06 21:47:17 and tmobile charges like 40p/minute Jul 06 21:47:51 my first thought was that i forgot to disable data roaming Jul 06 21:48:03 jacekowski: saynoto0870.com Jul 06 21:48:22 jacekowski: remember that in the future Jul 06 21:49:01 There was a law/ruling/whatever here at some point that made wait time "free".. But I don't remember who it applied to and how free it was suppsoed to be Jul 06 21:49:32 i'll call tmobile and tell them that i'm not planning to pay for that Jul 06 21:49:46 and i'm just wondering what will be their answer Jul 06 21:50:30 i'll probably end up having to pay it anyways but that's 100 quid wasted Jul 06 21:51:17 when my program running in libhal_ctx_init_direct(&error), i got NULL in there. so any idea ? Jul 06 21:51:20 * SpeedEvil has had amusing issues with the government losing stuff sent to them special delivered. Jul 06 21:51:23 Meh. Jul 06 21:52:01 * trumee needs a popup on his phone when the free call allowance is finished Jul 06 21:52:43 i end up using more than my free minutes every month mostly due to ignorance Jul 06 21:57:10 can the total call timer be queried from cli? Jul 06 21:57:28 derf: it'd be nice if your /ftc/ page had a style which highlighted the linked anchor Jul 06 21:57:31 :( Jul 06 21:57:40 -- trying to follow footnotes is painful Jul 06 21:58:33 any one read the project hald-addon-bme in gitorious.org written by toggles? Jul 06 22:02:28 derf: also, the first "Footnotes" "...so1" link seems broken.. Jul 06 22:13:56 timeless: It sure does. I didn't do the HTML page (just the PDF). I've forwarded your comments, however. Jul 06 22:19:24 * javispedro sighs Jul 06 22:19:42 stupid slashdot. Jul 06 22:23:01 eh Jul 06 22:30:42 Who is /.'s readerbase these days? Jul 06 22:30:49 That place is going more and more to shit. Jul 06 22:31:12 Old people. Jul 06 22:31:39 It's depressing Jul 06 22:31:46 It used to be reasonable. Jul 06 22:32:52 I've been /.-free for 9 years, 238 days. Jul 06 22:33:26 i never read it :/ Jul 06 22:33:33 was it good? Jul 06 22:33:38 No. Jul 06 22:33:44 what is /.? Jul 06 22:33:56 / Jul 06 22:33:57 say it out loud Jul 06 22:34:18 it's a website Jul 06 22:36:41 lately the number of comments has also been severely reduced Jul 06 22:36:57 only news pieces that get a statistically significant number of comments are US politics. Jul 06 22:37:43 If I flash on the the device itself, with softupd and flasher --local, do I actually have to flash the kernel or can I use the "-l" option? So that after I turn the device off and on again, the new kernel loads without being flashed. Is it possible? I guess it isn't, but who knows. Jul 06 22:38:45 DocScrutinizer, http://slashdot.org/ Jul 06 22:41:40 NIN101: no, it isn't Jul 06 22:41:49 GeneralAntilles: hmm, thanks Jul 06 22:42:00 GeneralAntilles: heard about it Jul 06 22:42:13 thx. Jul 06 22:58:44 According to Nielsen, PalmOS has still more market share than WP7. Jul 06 22:59:02 why didn't Nokia license PalmOS? =) Jul 06 22:59:18 can't afford to have a deludge of customers Jul 06 23:00:01 Drug prohibition is bad economics Jul 06 23:00:05 Dammit Jul 06 23:00:30 Irc client pastes old text Jul 06 23:04:51 I guess I can stop pressing F5 Jul 06 23:05:13 GeneralAntilles: no, because you want to get yours before I do! Jul 06 23:07:22 lol Jul 06 23:07:30 GeneralAntilles: yeah i'm thinkin :P Jul 06 23:10:09 is there a uboot-power version which is compatible to 1:2.6.28-10power47? downgrading to *46 fails Jul 06 23:10:40 http://pastebin.com/diPw5r4n Jul 06 23:12:40 sid_: uboot-power is only compatible with power46 Jul 06 23:13:00 on tmo there is a thread howto build your own uboot for power47 Jul 06 23:13:58 merlin1991: too risk, my usb is broken and i want a "rescuesystem" at mmc Jul 06 23:14:18 any other idea? Jul 06 23:15:07 else i will buy a 8gb mmc and install meego Jul 06 23:19:14 Somebody needs to take John Stewart to a nice home somewhere. Jul 06 23:27:19 this reminds me I need to catch up on the daily show. Jul 06 23:28:17 Don't bother Jul 06 23:28:21 It's neither funny nor relevant. Jul 06 23:28:39 he should go back to doing The Faculty sequels then. Jul 06 23:36:40 good morning Jul 06 23:37:21 moo Jul 06 23:47:09 does someone know a good repair shop in germany for usb soldering? Jul 06 23:48:02 some folks on meego.de recommend nokia24.de Jul 06 23:48:57 sid_: I did my own uboot for the power46-wl1 kernel Jul 06 23:49:15 IIRC they do not solder, they just replace, but you better read something about it. Jul 06 23:49:19 took the sources from the uboot-pr13 package and combined them with the hints on tmo Jul 06 23:49:21 worked like a charm Jul 06 23:52:01 it looks like it is already bricked and i do not have usb Jul 06 23:53:10 today i saw a fbus for 5€. it should be like http://www.gpgindustries.com/banners/N900.jpg Jul 06 23:53:34 neat Jul 06 23:53:54 that's the serial adaptor I think - it's not a standard thingy Jul 07 00:01:50 according to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?s=42ed30abe0bf2acee33467c931c2b804&t=71414&page=4 it should work or am i wrong? Jul 07 00:03:03 umm - no Jul 07 00:03:08 quite seperate Jul 07 00:03:22 the above is not as I understand it USB at all, it's serial. Jul 07 00:04:08 Where is that? Jul 07 00:05:58 depressing, will write to nokia24 tomorrow. where is what= Jul 07 00:06:00 ? Jul 07 00:07:12 * SpeedEvil ponders offering a n900 repair service. Jul 07 00:08:11 Oh - I read through the thread - maybe indeed Jul 07 00:08:23 I fyou mod the thing Jul 07 00:10:23 good night Jul 07 01:07:34 Can you rotate the RDA phone image? Jul 07 01:07:52 Or rather - set the phone into landscape mode Jul 07 01:31:33 SpeedEvil, not with the N950 Jul 07 01:31:43 (n950 RDA) Jul 07 01:32:34 k Jul 07 02:20:42 anybody here? Jul 07 02:21:15 about 337 people Jul 07 02:22:05 yes. is there anybody can help me to figure out how to get the battery charge level (mhA) inforamtion? Simple source code would be hlepful Jul 07 02:24:21 lshal | grep bat ... or even better the bq27200.sh script found on TMO Jul 07 02:24:42 im using N900. Jul 07 02:24:50 ok. TMO? Jul 07 02:25:44 i need to program (C/c++) to gain the information. Jul 07 02:25:54 os lshal is not good for me. Jul 07 02:28:42 there is libhal and some api you can query Jul 07 02:28:56 but stock charging (bme) is somewhat borked Jul 07 02:29:28 borked??? Jul 07 02:30:00 it lies to you and the updates while charging are wrong iirc Jul 07 02:30:18 well there are a lot battery tools, get the sources and look Jul 07 02:30:56 the bq27*.sh script does direct i2c queries to the fuel gauge chip, but nokia missed to implement that properly in bme Jul 07 02:31:02 and bme isnt open source Jul 07 02:31:04 i just found one or two sources that are not running correct on my N900 Jul 07 02:32:13 what exactly do you want to do? Jul 07 02:32:52 i want to read the battery charge level periodically Jul 07 02:33:14 for what? Jul 07 02:33:18 and how often? Jul 07 02:34:12 to look at how quick the battery goes on. how often? 0.5 seconds or 1 second or maybe millionseconds. Jul 07 02:35:11 heh .. you know how much alone that would drain the battery? Jul 07 02:35:31 and what do you mean by 'battery goes on' Jul 07 02:36:06 battery graph does a decent job in logging battery Jul 07 02:36:22 i will run my own program and to see how quick the battery runs out. Jul 07 02:36:39 yes, but it doesn't have source code. Jul 07 02:36:52 if you wake the cpu that often then the battery will be empty in 3 hours :P Jul 07 02:36:53 and i need to draw my own figure Jul 07 02:37:24 the battery only last that long because programs must be written not to wake the cpu frquently Jul 07 02:38:40 well, can i ask you one question? if i wrote a program to call lshal | grep ... does it wake up the CPU? Jul 07 02:39:02 or if i wrote a program to call bme/ libhal, does it wake up the CPU? Jul 07 02:39:05 anything you run on the cpu wakes it Jul 07 02:39:27 batterygraph and other tools just do that infrequently .. every 30 seconds or so Jul 07 02:40:10 i see. actually my another program will use the wifi or so very frequently Jul 07 02:40:12 well and you can subscribe notifications from dbus to waken only on some status changes Jul 07 02:40:27 that's why i need to log the battery's infor Jul 07 02:40:43 there is a battery low warning message for example .. but iirc there are no notifcations about other charge levels unfortunally Jul 07 02:41:11 batterygraph is open source iirc Jul 07 02:41:20 take a look at that Jul 07 02:41:25 or use libhal directly Jul 07 02:41:26 really? can you support me the link? Jul 07 02:41:49 yes, i want to use libhal. but i have no idea about it . i need some simple code for study Jul 07 02:41:58 garage.maemo.org maybe .. search by yourself Jul 07 02:42:12 heh .. its python i think so you always get the source Jul 07 02:42:22 google Jul 07 02:42:34 i know there is program wrotten by python. and i got the source code. Jul 07 02:42:41 but i want to learn by c/c++ Jul 07 02:42:57 Look in the CSSU Jul 07 02:43:13 Someone cloned the battery status bar widget and made it better Jul 07 02:43:19 even if its python the libhal api for c would be similar Jul 07 02:43:40 http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/status-area-applet-battery Jul 07 02:43:57 Thats got C code that does battery status monitoring Jul 07 02:48:23 yes. i got it. but it did for widget and i am confused about that code. i don't need to do the widget. Jul 07 02:48:43 but i just got the batterygraph source code. i think that's should be enough for me. Jul 07 02:48:48 thank you guys!! Jul 07 02:48:58 heh .. do you want to program something in C or do you want some finished code? Jul 07 02:49:19 both are good for me. Jul 07 02:49:38 but if the finished code i can use, i juse need to make changes in there. Jul 07 02:49:42 that's should be enough. Jul 07 02:50:02 otherwise i need to program on it, then i have to totally understand the whole stuff on libhal. Jul 07 02:53:33 well remember that your measurement drains battery too ... if you only need that for testing then you prolly put the battery querying directly in your wifi using app (as infrequently as possible) when it is running anyways, then the cpu is already awake that wont cost extra Jul 07 02:53:43 do you know which way will consume more battery? 1. program using libhal 2. call command lshal Jul 07 02:54:13 like in a event loop, check if some time elapsed since the last event (few seconds at least) and do the measuremant before going idle again Jul 07 02:54:30 lshal certainly mor because it forks of a shell Jul 07 02:57:01 when your program consumes too much battery you should check why .. busy loops, polling etc ... install 'powertop' to find out Jul 07 02:57:27 i see. Jul 07 02:57:57 btw, the source code i downloaded batterygraph, there is no makefile Jul 07 02:59:11 setup.py? Jul 07 02:59:11 and it seems a vs project. how can i debug it in windows? Jul 07 02:59:16 no setup.py Jul 07 02:59:17 huh? Jul 07 02:59:23 no idea :) Jul 07 02:59:35 i never looked at its source Jul 07 02:59:36 looks like a vs project. because there is sln and vcxproj Jul 07 02:59:52 well people can use VS for other projects too **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 07 02:59:56 2011