**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 09 02:59:57 2011 Jul 09 03:00:25 grep: /usr/share/sms-handlers/ee84-0018.internal_handler: Permission denied Jul 09 03:01:17 thank you Aegis! Jul 09 03:01:50 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-ring Jul 09 03:01:51 /usr/lib/libsms-manager.so.0.0.0 Jul 09 03:03:41 ok, sounds like telepathy-ring (closed source as usual) is handling the cbsms Jul 09 03:03:59 searching... Jul 09 03:04:07 ok Jul 09 03:04:47 telepathy-ring must not be closed Jul 09 03:05:03 at least I'd be puzzled when it is Jul 09 03:05:03 why do you say that? Jul 09 03:05:12 it was closed in Maemo5 Jul 09 03:05:14 Fremantle Jul 09 03:05:18 :-o Jul 09 03:05:30 and the one in Harmattan is likely a derivitive of the Fremantle one Jul 09 03:05:40 its open source in MeeGo since it talks to the open source ofono backend Jul 09 03:05:49 but Harmattan uses the closed source backend Jul 09 03:05:52 the old CSD daemon Jul 09 03:05:57 /usr/lib/libsms-manager.so.0 Jul 09 03:06:28 hmm Jul 09 03:06:38 ok, I knew about the libsms-manager ones (that's where the signal comes from). So assuming nothing else is referencing it, it should be telepathy-ring that handles it Jul 09 03:06:47 grep: /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/python-support.pth: No such file or directory Jul 09 03:07:32 grep: /usr/sbin/iptables-xml: No such file or directory Jul 09 03:08:12 grep: /usr/bin/osa: Permission denied Jul 09 03:08:13 grep: /usr/bin/[[: No such file or directory Jul 09 03:08:15 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# Jul 09 03:08:45 now all I gotta do is find a binary of telepathy-ring (arm or x86) to pull into IDA to reverse engineer :P Jul 09 03:10:01 damn, its not in the Harmattan SDK :( Jul 09 03:12:51 ok, looks like reverse engineering libcellular-qt may tell me more about what I want to know Jul 09 03:13:27 at least per what networkcell.h has to say Jul 09 03:17:41 harmattan has a "show cell info" switch in settings Jul 09 03:18:29 My guess is that the setting is wired to setNameDisplayEnabled in cellular-qt Jul 09 03:19:58 fair guess Jul 09 03:27:17 my god cellular-qt is comprehensive Jul 09 03:29:52 I still wonder how the same people who made compilers can't make (proper) decompilers Jul 09 03:30:55 decompilation is hard Jul 09 03:31:05 especially in anything that has had optimizations applied Jul 09 03:31:51 run the same de-optimizations in the de-compiler Jul 09 03:33:26 * jonwil wishes cellular-qt was open or at least available on Fremantle Jul 09 03:33:33 looks like very comprehensive and useful library Jul 09 03:42:12 anyone here know anything about how qt_metacall works and what its for? Jul 09 03:47:46 * jonwil has quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))) Jul 09 03:47:49 wtf? Jul 09 03:57:59 Morning Jul 09 03:59:49 WUT? Jul 09 04:01:37 MohammadAG: no kidding? Jul 09 04:02:41 pfff Jul 09 04:02:45 anyone here know anything about how qt_metacall works and what its for? Jul 09 04:02:55 hmm, not getting killed Jul 09 04:04:05 idoru: ? Jul 09 04:04:21 idoru: status Jul 09 04:06:13 MohammadAG: PING Jul 09 04:27:20 friggin idiot bot Jul 09 04:29:28 ""anti spam bot"" according to freenode "staff" - allegedly they can do nothing and jonwil has to mail kline@freenode about it - MEH!!! BS! Jul 09 04:30:01 I wonder how this bot came here - pondering to kickban it Jul 09 04:32:22 X-Fade: is idoru an invited bot? Jul 09 04:32:39 X-Fade: Or shall it get kickbanned? Jul 09 04:33:02 X-Fade: I'm all for kickban Jul 09 04:35:09 Moo all Jul 09 04:37:01 obviously crossposting the line >>anyone here know anything about how qt_metacall works and what its for?<< across two channels where idoru is in, during 2 min, is enough to get **klined** by freenode. Jul 09 04:37:56 I honestly think freenode starts going mad Jul 09 04:39:25 DocScrutinizer: you could try kick banning it, but staff have a capability to not have bans work on them (how nice) Jul 09 04:40:04 I'm rwluctant to do it as long as I'm not sure if chan-owner has invited it Jul 09 04:42:21 ""the bot may have false positives, but freenoe stuff doesn't discuss klines on IRC. Not by him and not by any third person like you speaking for him. He has to mail kline@freenode.bs"" PFFFFF Jul 09 04:43:56 and also ""reverse engineering with IDA is considered cyber terrorism"" - first I thought he's joking, but the dude rephrased it on a second post Jul 09 04:45:12 I wonder if somebody mixed psychotropic substances into my coffee Jul 09 04:45:30 this can't be real Jul 09 04:53:30 GAN900: do you know about this friggin idoru bot? Jul 09 05:11:44 ~seen idoru Jul 09 05:11:51 DocScrutinizer: i haven't seen 'idoru' Jul 09 05:12:00 thought as much Jul 09 05:14:20 damn, pissed and kick-happy Jul 09 05:16:32 * DocScrutinizer glares at idoru Jul 09 05:16:37 >:-( Jul 09 05:18:51 >>Support can be found at #pyfibot on irc.nerv.fi and please contact yllapito@nerv.fi if you want to connect outside of Finland << Jul 09 05:19:14 makes me wonder if that Finland part is mere incidence or... Jul 09 05:19:18 yeah, looking at the details Jul 09 05:19:39 idoru: leave #maemo Jul 09 05:19:50 idoru: ping Jul 09 05:19:59 that thing is deaf Jul 09 05:20:28 this alone would suffice to kickban it, usually Jul 09 05:20:37 PM is also a no-go Jul 09 05:20:41 yup Jul 09 05:20:44 same Jul 09 05:20:46 deaf Jul 09 05:21:07 is this a freenode bot? Jul 09 05:21:13 see cloak Jul 09 05:21:15 :-( Jul 09 05:21:45 sure, otherwise how could it trigger klining jonwil? Jul 09 05:21:53 right Jul 09 05:22:11 but why did it kline him? Jul 09 05:22:28 [2011-07-09 06:32:48] obviously crossposting the line >>anyone here know anything about how qt_metacall works and what its for?<< across two channels where idoru is in, during 2 min, is enough to get **klined** by freenode. Jul 09 05:23:02 that no makes no fucking sense at all Jul 09 05:23:09 indeed Jul 09 05:23:20 it's obvious though Jul 09 05:23:41 maybe he even x-poste to a third chan, like #qt or sth - still no sense in it Jul 09 05:25:17 indeed, just received a mail from him, he sent to #qt as well Jul 09 05:25:41 but that's no damn reason to kline *anybody* Jul 09 05:26:08 DocScrutinizer: I could create an account for him on my server so he can access IRC till it get sorted out Jul 09 05:26:16 quassel account Jul 09 05:26:38 hiemanshu: I'll suggest it to him Jul 09 05:27:01 or better yet, as I guess he's reading IRC log, just post your contact Jul 09 05:27:13 >> | DocScrutinizer: They'd have to email to see why it hppened. Klines are not discussed on IRC, or with "third" people. Jul 09 05:27:50 and are they even responsive about it? Jul 09 05:28:02 >> | sometimes the bot has false positives, and sometimes it indeed is the person flooding or spamming, the persons affected have to email to klines@freenode.net instead of asking it here or having you ask it here for thtem Jul 09 05:28:29 this dude used "they" as if jonwil was a company Jul 09 05:29:16 *persons* Jul 09 05:30:50 http://paste.debian.net/122383/ <-- full log of my convo Jul 09 05:33:19 DocScrutinizer: well atleast they helped you get his email :P Jul 09 05:34:09 meh, I got a better email of him, but I didn't feel like helping Gryllida guy to turn me down Jul 09 05:35:33 btw upb isn't any staffer obviously, while gryllida has a very talking cloak but wasn'T voiced as staff is suppoesed to be in #freenode Jul 09 05:37:41 so if I post something in 3 channels thats spamming, but if I post a huge ascii dragon, taht isnt spamming? Jul 09 05:39:24 if you post ascii grafix here, then you'll get kickbanned by *me* :-P Jul 09 05:40:29 honestly, while x-posting isn't exacly good style, it's not by any rule a reason to kick somebody Jul 09 05:41:25 I did that myself Jul 09 05:41:46 DocScrutinizer: I'll post it while you are sleeping, but that isn't the point, it just stupid to kline someone who x-posted in 3 chans, and just one sentence Jul 09 05:42:03 exactly Jul 09 05:42:25 we should pester freenode staff to take down their apshit bot Jul 09 05:43:23 yeah, or atleast fix/tune it to reduce false positive Jul 09 05:43:26 I appreciate they do a hell of a job to keep freenode clean of all sorts of threats all the time - but that's ridiculous Jul 09 05:43:26 positives* Jul 09 05:44:54 alas I don't feel like continuing my convo with this gryllida guy/gal/whatever. Too weird Jul 09 05:45:47 I feel like killing this bot!!!! Jul 09 05:46:41 hiemanshu: you're free to /join #freenode and continue where I stopped Jul 09 05:49:07 fun Jul 09 05:49:45 btw this Porcher identity also smelled botty, and when I suggested /kick pocher before I left #freenode, I got immediatey spammed with private query expletive - the type though been real, so it has to be a human with an intelect of a spam bot, or a spanbot with an almost human touch noticing even references with typos Jul 09 05:54:16 meh, false assumptions - o fcourse it's been a bot, of the type that spams everybody posting *anything* in the channel Jul 09 05:56:21 Porcher can make you love him Jul 09 05:56:29 I bet Jul 09 05:57:57 won't help, those bots change nick 5 times a second Jul 09 05:58:39 suggestons welcome, if anybody got an IP or sth Jul 09 06:02:21 ~botsnack Jul 09 06:02:22 aw, gee, DocScrutinizer Jul 09 06:02:36 ~good bot Jul 09 06:02:37 DocScrutinizer: :) Jul 09 06:04:03 DocScrutinizer: you shouldn't talk to bots that much! Are you insane? Jul 09 06:04:36 meh! Jul 09 06:13:24 /mode #maemo +b *!*@* Jul 09 06:13:27 should do the trick Jul 09 06:13:29 :p Jul 09 06:22:35 meh, freenode staffers are nice and reasonable people - the *real* stuffers Jul 09 06:22:41 everything fixed Jul 09 06:23:00 and jonwil should be un-klined Jul 09 06:24:34 [2011-07-09 08:13:11] DocScrutinizer, that was probably a mistake . youc an /msg me some details if you like Jul 09 06:28:22 good to be back Jul 09 06:28:37 and I know not to post in too many channels at once now Jul 09 06:28:48 so yeah I found another hidden gem in the depths of the internet Jul 09 06:28:50 https://build.opensuse.org/package/files?package=messaging-ui&project=home%3Achris_liu Jul 09 06:29:09 Its a source tarball for Harmattan QT messaging-ui version 0.0.38.2+0m6 Jul 09 06:29:17 something which I dont think is supposed to be out there Jul 09 06:29:37 quite interesting if you want to see some of how harmattan messaging works :) Jul 09 06:29:56 ooh, couldn't you say a word 5s earlier, would've saved me writing a mail to you ;-P Jul 09 06:30:18 you don't see joins? Jul 09 06:30:25 nope Jul 09 06:30:33 usually not Jul 09 06:31:37 I do wonder if there are any other hidden gems out there somewhere of code that shouldnt be public but is Jul 09 06:34:17 ok, fine then, dont comment on my latest find :P Jul 09 06:35:20 It looks quite nice :-) Jul 09 06:35:46 I wonder how you find those hidden easter eggs Jul 09 06:35:57 in this case it was googling for something else Jul 09 06:36:43 well, this time I first dl'ed it before it vanished :-) Jul 09 06:37:00 it hasnt gone Jul 09 06:37:42 yes, it's still there, but there were cases where javispedro was too late to dl a tarball that looked extremely promising Jul 09 06:37:57 yeah that one app manager one Jul 09 06:38:04 was a lesson for me :-) Jul 09 06:39:18 then of course there are the things you find but cant access Jul 09 06:39:30 like the closed-off git repo for libcellular-qt I found once Jul 09 06:40:18 :-S Jul 09 06:40:45 I mean I found it but it was password protected Jul 09 06:40:52 so I couldn't get to it Jul 09 06:43:56 hmmm, interesting, at one point a lot of nokia closed binaries were at URLs like http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/non-free/b/bme/ rather than being in the nokia-binaries repo Jul 09 06:46:18 Currently using google cache to follow that tree and see just what was in it Jul 09 06:46:30 in case anything iteresting shows up for me to google for Jul 09 06:47:11 used to be a packaged called cellmo-rnd-headers_0.1.2011.08.3+0m6_all.deb in the repo by the looks of it Jul 09 06:51:28 http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/attachmentText?id=55848&aid=-4196978892536996110&name=dpkg.output&token=7cf8407d1a246a47278dd71297b47ac5 >>> ii cellmo-rnd-headers 0.1.2010.20.2 R&D ISI interface headers Jul 09 06:52:06 rnd == R&D Jul 09 06:54:11 yeah Jul 09 06:58:45 actually http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=55848 is quite funny, as it seems some ppe guy was knee deep into developing phonet on his ubuntu box, and posted a full dpkg -l :-D Jul 09 07:01:09 finally found out what causes ubuntu 11.04 to explode on a chroot Jul 09 07:01:17 thumb-2 Jul 09 07:02:23 http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/non-free/c/cellmo-isi-headers/ 404 :-/ Jul 09 07:03:07 Hurrian: n900? Jul 09 07:04:23 because the OMAP3 SoC used in the N900 (34xx/35xx) has broken thumbs (pun intended) Jul 09 07:04:56 * jonwil would LOVE to have csd-sms-dev, csd-plugin-dev, csd-sim-dev, csd-simpb-dev, libisi-dev, libisi-glib-dev, libphonet-dev, libsim-dev, libsimpb-dev, libsms-dev and libsms-utils-dev :) Jul 09 07:07:55 google shows no references for those packages other than that dpkg log and various irc logs Jul 09 07:07:59 i.e. nothing usefull :P Jul 09 07:09:11 so yeah just more pointers to stuff we need but cant have :P Jul 09 07:09:49 dm8tbr , iirc thumb-1 execution is fixed Jul 09 07:09:58 thumb-2 instruction set is MIA Jul 09 07:10:44 Hurrian: I'd need to dig my logs, but I think thumb2 sort of works, but you have a good chance to randomly run into one of two errata (depending which kernel fix you turn on) Jul 09 07:11:25 hmm, didn't know that the N900 was capable of thumb-2 Jul 09 07:12:16 all i know is that the N900 can do thumb (errata patched) and thumb-ee (java env, useless to Maemo, mite b useful for NITDroid) Jul 09 07:14:52 meh I can't find the pages right know. I'm sure Stskeeps knows though. Ask him for clarification. Jul 09 07:15:08 I don't remember enough details for an authoritative clear answer Jul 09 07:17:14 I love making phone calls with my maemo over ssh by copypasting the phone numbers from a web page on my desktop computer to the ssh terminal Jul 09 07:21:57 in any case I have run out of leads on possible hidden info Jul 09 07:22:21 Not that that messaging-ui source is all that great, it doesnt even match the Harmattan build that people seem to have on their N950s Jul 09 07:22:35 or at least the dpkg list given to me by someone a while back Jul 09 07:27:07 jonwil: ive not been keeping up, why do you need all these devpackags? Jul 09 07:27:22 I wasnt saying I need them, just that it would be nice to have them Jul 09 07:27:37 be nice to be able to dig deeper into the cell stack :P Jul 09 07:28:02 ok, so it wasnt for some particular reason except because its fun to see how stuff works? :) Jul 09 07:28:06 hah, a box with proper backbone is a nice thing - esp when nokia has a server with a proper network connection. wget -v diagnostic output bombs in at 20kB/s Jul 09 07:28:49 the autput has bizarre values like 450MB/s Jul 09 07:28:53 I think Nokia has learned and wont be uploading anything secret to the repos anytime soon Jul 09 07:30:53 api-refs/xml/ seems a monster pile of crap though Jul 09 07:31:48 jonwil , uploadng seekrits to repos? Jul 09 07:32:22 There are instances in google cache of files that used to be in the harmattan repos Jul 09 07:32:25 but which are not there Jul 09 07:32:28 and which seem interesting Jul 09 07:32:55 like at one point a source tarball for package-manager was up there Jul 09 07:33:03 but is gone before anyone we know of grabbed it Jul 09 07:35:13 we should check the filesharing services Jul 09 07:36:19 gimme filename. Jul 09 07:36:58 jonwil has, I can't recall off top of my head Jul 09 07:37:31 I searched for these interesting files on all the sharing sites I could find Jul 09 07:37:47 package-manager_0.26.2+0m6.tar.gz is the filename though Jul 09 07:37:49 of the big one Jul 09 07:37:59 the one that we saw and couldn't get Jul 09 07:38:27 * DocScrutinizer wonders how long this mirroring of api-refs/xml/daily-docs.... meh finished Jul 09 07:38:34 Downloaded: 16698 files, 254M in 1m 51s (2.29 MB/s) Jul 09 07:39:39 254M is really manageable Jul 09 07:46:05 hmm, said file is 117MB Jul 09 07:46:12 wonder how large all of harmattan is Jul 09 07:47:04 hmm, it's gone Jul 09 07:47:08 nokia cleaned up early Jul 09 07:49:01 This is cool: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74746 Jul 09 07:53:01 icebergs are cool Jul 09 07:54:21 Well, they're certainly not /warm/. Jul 09 07:55:25 hehe, seems to be a video editor thing running on the n900 Jul 09 07:56:03 dmj726, looks like a web app Jul 09 07:56:29 google Novacut Jul 09 07:56:49 They say they're building their GUI in HTML5 Jul 09 07:57:09 so yeah still getting nowhere with cell broadcast sms Jul 09 07:57:32 Further reverse engineering of libcellular-qt didnt help, the cell stack has changed too much in Harmattan Jul 09 07:57:41 particularly the csd-net bit Jul 09 07:57:45 jonwil: does our radio even recieve it? Jul 09 07:57:48 yep Jul 09 07:58:00 cell broadcast SMS works just fine with my patch to libsms.so Jul 09 07:58:09 Alternately, could we simply grab the firmware/driver out of Harmattan and use that? Jul 09 07:58:09 My guess is one of their devs decided to see if it'll run on the n900 at all :P Jul 09 07:58:20 But now I have to write a UI for it Jul 09 07:58:28 to do something useful Jul 09 07:58:32 and thats where I get stuck Jul 09 07:59:02 In order for the ideas I have for the UI to be possible, I need to figure out more about some of the dbus signals sent by csd-net Jul 09 07:59:07 I know the signals and what they look like Jul 09 07:59:14 What I am missing is info on when they get sent Jul 09 07:59:19 as in, what causes them to be sent Jul 09 07:59:43 robbiethe1st : ...not the same radio, i guess Jul 09 08:00:11 Hurrian: Really? hm, maby Jul 09 08:00:47 cehteh: ^^ Jul 09 08:00:48 i got BB5 errors while trying to run Harmattan on the N900 Jul 09 08:00:49 Morning, all Jul 09 08:00:58 morning Jaffa Jul 09 08:02:14 with mtdswap, i get the feeling someone up at nokia doesnt want the new devices to last long Jul 09 08:03:25 Hurrian: mtdswap... so it's using a pre-defined chunk of the on-chip flash for swap? Jul 09 08:03:29 yes Jul 09 08:03:46 mtd5 Jul 09 08:04:12 Hm... does mtdswap deal with bad blocks at all? Jul 09 08:04:40 idk Jul 09 08:05:31 Well, if it does it won't be a problem - you'll just have a warn out section of mtd. The rest of the space won't be harmed, as there's no global block relocation algorithm, unlike, say, the eMMC. Jul 09 08:05:52 anyways, a device with 1GB RAM shouldnt need to swap at all Jul 09 08:05:54 If not, I see swap issues happening within a year, but it'll be fixable by moving the swap file elsewhere. Jul 09 08:06:14 anyways, if you're going to swap, make the physical swap device replaceable Jul 09 08:06:19 like a dedicated uSD card Jul 09 08:07:26 No, I disagree, Hurrian. It shouldn't need to swap much, but it should be there - Otherwise, like Android, you simply run into a hard limit. And if applications take more ram than they do on the N900, that could be a problem. Add some swap, now you've got extra capacity, and you can offload some junk to swap if it's not being used. Jul 09 08:07:36 anyone know what libbb5 is? Jul 09 08:07:56 seems to be security related Jul 09 08:08:00 and possibly important :) Jul 09 08:08:03 >bb5 Jul 09 08:08:07 sure is important Jul 09 08:08:30 As far as replacable, yes, it's a good idea, but I haven't seen /many/ N900's with dead eMMCs from it, so it's probably not *that* bad. Jul 09 08:08:34 robbiethe1st : ramzswap/compcache + kill allocating task on OOM should be enough for a mobile device Jul 09 08:08:45 but point taken, emmcs havent died from swapping Jul 09 08:09:08 rather, emmcs break from the solder balls breaking Jul 09 08:09:17 Yea, that makes sense Jul 09 08:09:55 Well, see, I'd prefer to not have apps die if I want to run too many - things running slowly, and or a low-memory warning's better than having some random app die at a random time. Jul 09 08:09:55 gurus, the N9/50 uses compcache/ramz right? Jul 09 08:10:23 robbiethe1st: free -m should give you enough info ;) Jul 09 08:10:43 Uh, yea, but noone's going to do that on the fly while working on the device. Jul 09 08:10:48 hmm, a script to send a notification of low RAM when it falls under 20% combined physical and compressed Jul 09 08:11:03 That'd be nice... Jul 09 08:11:47 personally, i think the N9/50 would be the device where everything would run 24/7, unlike the N900 where my OCD kicks in and closes all the apps Jul 09 08:12:34 oh, and i dont know why nokia would still put in a raw flash device Jul 09 08:12:46 I think that's part of the CPU package... Jul 09 08:12:51 everything on mtd1 can be stored on BB5 chip itself Jul 09 08:13:04 robbiethe1st, MTD is literally on top of SOC Jul 09 08:13:10 Yea. Jul 09 08:13:14 it's called PoP Jul 09 08:13:20 Hurrian: (N9/50 uses compcache/ramz) tell me how to check Jul 09 08:13:22 So it's not like they could easily just, you know, remove it.. Jul 09 08:13:28 and you can get PoP with just RAM, not only RAM+NAND Jul 09 08:13:57 DocScrutinizer : try using rzscontrol Jul 09 08:14:20 or check /dev for ramzswap devices Jul 09 08:14:59 Example: rzscontrol /dev/ramzswap0 --init Jul 09 08:15:00 See rzscontrol manpage for details. Jul 09 08:15:04 :-/ Jul 09 08:15:15 it runs on the N950? Jul 09 08:15:39 well, I think the nand flash is quite a bit faster than eMMC or a SD card; it just requires that bad-block management be done in software. Jul 09 08:15:46 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# find /dev -name '*ramz*' Jul 09 08:15:48 /dev/ramzswap0 Jul 09 08:15:49 /dev/.udev/names/block\x2f254:0/\x2fdevices\x2fvirtual\x2fblock\x2framzswap0 Jul 09 08:15:51 /dev/.udev/names/ramzswap0 Jul 09 08:15:57 ah, that's nice Jul 09 08:16:20 plus a few more Jul 09 08:16:30 And, at least on the N900, the rootfs/NAND honestly worked a lot better than the eMMC - I've had the eMMC occasionally get corrupted; rootfs never. Jul 09 08:16:52 duh, I promised you... Jul 09 08:17:12 (though, that being said, I *have* had the kernel get randomly corrupted, and that's also on raw NAND) Jul 09 08:17:13 Will the new devices have better webm support? Jul 09 08:17:15 robbiethe1st - which filesystem? Jul 09 08:17:18 ext3? Jul 09 08:17:23 Hurrian: Yes. Jul 09 08:17:32 not surprising really Jul 09 08:17:37 http://paste.debian.net/122388/ <- mounts Jul 09 08:18:06 :-P Jul 09 08:18:28 wonder how cool it would be if nokia used the money they saved on not buying a raw flash part to give us more RAM or make a larger profit margin Jul 09 08:18:48 DocScrutinizer : rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) Jul 09 08:18:58 dev/root on / type ext4 (rw,noatime,errors=remount-ro,barrier=1,stripe=8,data=ordered) Jul 09 08:19:05 what the f**k? Jul 09 08:20:20 i mean, seriously? Jul 09 08:20:45 Uh, yea... Jul 09 08:20:52 same as in maemo 5 Jul 09 08:21:29 Hurrian: Seems the novacut guys are making a video editor for ubuntu right now Jul 09 08:21:31 i thought that nokia would adhere to standard fstab, with device nodes for non-pseudo-filesystems Jul 09 08:22:20 oh well, i guess it's part of nolo hackery Jul 09 08:23:14 * dmj726 is probably just too excited after waiting like two years for a video editor to emerge for us Jul 09 08:24:38 a real video editor? \o/ Jul 09 08:25:00 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74746 Jul 09 08:25:10 dmj726: so far I've only heard about webm for omap4 from TI. dunno. Jul 09 08:26:31 dm8tbr: We *do* have libvp8 if that's what you mean. it will play webm files, provided you have ogg support, on the N900 Jul 09 08:27:06 robbiethe1st: I just know that webm only works in ff mobile and not microb Jul 09 08:27:36 Oh. Jul 09 08:27:41 ah, microb Jul 09 08:27:57 robbiethe1st: I meant to imply IVA/DSP Jul 09 08:28:09 time to request a new microb from cssu Jul 09 08:28:17 yeah, DSP support for webm would be very nice Jul 09 08:28:23 TI has it Jul 09 08:28:48 probably even for OMAP3, but they might not release it. dunno what the current situation is Jul 09 08:28:52 Hm, speaking of which... couldn't we throw the Fennec back-end behind microb and get the best of both worlds? Jul 09 08:29:36 I thought both use gecko as the engine... Jul 09 08:29:37 apparently it would mainly recall copying the appropriate MicroB bits and changing some links; we'd need the old backend for other stuff that uses it. Jul 09 08:30:29 They do. I think MicroB actually uses xulrunner somehow behind the scenes; it's basically just an optimized version of Firefox with a better frontend. AFAIK Jul 09 08:30:51 moin dm8tbr Jul 09 08:30:55 hmm, people are saying On2 (now google's) had a DSP accelerated codec Jul 09 08:31:29 moin DoktorPruefer :) Jul 09 08:31:34 yeah, microb is good for when sites need user interaction Jul 09 08:31:45 DokumetPruefer ;-) Jul 09 08:31:54 ah :) Jul 09 08:31:59 robbiethe1st : isnt XULRunner notably absent in MicroB? Jul 09 08:32:13 Hurrian: yes, and I heard it sucked, but dunno if google took it further Jul 09 08:32:17 I've no clue... but I haven't looked internally Jul 09 08:33:26 just realized I mirrored the frontpage of http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ but not http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool :-P Jul 09 08:34:23 I wonder what else they got hidden under *.nokia.com/*/* Jul 09 08:36:29 getting a recent Gecko to work on microb would be great Jul 09 08:37:06 then again, what exactly constitutes microb-engine? Jul 09 08:37:17 I wish I knew Jul 09 08:37:17 it's the web browser engine, which is Gecko Jul 09 08:37:26 but who knows what else it provides? Jul 09 08:38:22 ...other than being the thing that displays messages in Conversations Jul 09 08:38:51 wait, really? Jul 09 08:39:09 Is everything a browser front end these days? Jul 09 08:39:14 ...Yes. Jul 09 08:39:19 sad Jul 09 08:39:38 Actually, it's generally a good thing. Makes editing/displaying stuff easy. Jul 09 08:39:45 Even the video editors are jumping on HTML for the gui Jul 09 08:39:47 it's generally a sad thing Jul 09 08:39:59 But it makes it more hackable! Jul 09 08:40:07 Well, if the GUI works well... Jul 09 08:40:18 hmm, the microb garage page looks like it hasn't been touched in a VERY long time Jul 09 08:40:26 considering most renderers are heavy any tend to have issues even with the best markup... Jul 09 08:40:30 it's sad Jul 09 08:41:28 hmm, let's try to build this Jul 09 08:42:10 Well, we spend 90+% of our daily existance on the web, so why not use the same technology elsewhere? And, in this case, the browser's already running in the background, so... Jul 09 08:42:41 really??? we do??? Jul 09 08:43:37 Yep, turns out the real world is just a Matrix running in IE6. That's why things break so much Jul 09 08:44:00 Well, replace that with daily *online* existance in a web browser. Jul 09 08:44:11 I'm still somewhat asleep - took a nap recently Jul 09 08:44:29 I still don't spend much of my online existance in a web browser Jul 09 08:44:40 it's probably more like 10% Jul 09 08:45:14 erm, what do you *do* online then? Jul 09 08:45:39 IRC!!! Jul 09 08:45:40 irc, email, ssh and such like things... none of which involve using a browser Jul 09 08:45:55 indeed Jul 09 08:45:58 irc is a huge timesink online Jul 09 08:46:21 Well, yes, but erm... I at least *always* have my browser running, whether I'm messing with it or not Jul 09 08:46:35 and well, if it's running, the libraries are loaded anyway Jul 09 08:46:57 i sure as hell hope i dont have to download the entire Mozilla hg repo all over again, once more for the fifth time Jul 09 08:47:06 Hurrian, make a copy ;) Jul 09 08:47:13 and you won't need to redo it ;) Jul 09 08:47:42 meh, that's insane: -rw-rw-r-- 1 jr jr 5954080 Jul 9 10:42 wget-log Jul 09 08:48:17 shouldn't have omitted -nv, despite the -b Jul 09 08:48:49 DocScrutinizer: You been looking for a video editor for a long time too? Jul 09 08:48:57 now I get ~100lines per file, like *****.............................28% Jul 09 08:49:43 dmj726: I always thought video cam and sharing is a nonsense without any at least trimming tool Jul 09 08:49:55 yeah, same here Jul 09 08:50:12 that's what got me excited by that video Jul 09 08:51:11 also, thanks to the stupid cam app, you need a concatenator to join snipets into one Jul 09 08:51:40 snippets? Jul 09 08:51:55 you mean like each clip? Jul 09 08:51:59 10s shots, taken on same location Jul 09 08:52:20 the cam has no pause Jul 09 08:52:32 so basically you need to be able to trim individual clips and join them in a sequence? Jul 09 08:52:44 just "start" and "stop&save" Jul 09 08:52:56 yep Jul 09 08:53:37 woof Jul 09 08:53:40 hmm...I've been reading some of the Novacut stuff and that's exactly what they're trying to do on the desktop initially Jul 09 08:53:41 though honestly I'd even prefer to have as well a cam that allows pausing Jul 09 08:54:25 prolly never will see such a critter, thanks to friggin mafw Jul 09 08:54:41 mafw? Jul 09 08:54:43 same problem like with gapless mp3-playback, I guess Jul 09 08:55:14 yeah, I gather the a == audio Jul 09 08:55:47 mafw isn't used for recording. Jul 09 08:55:51 but I bet camera-ui also is using a similar non-pause'able backend Jul 09 08:56:00 gstreamer Jul 09 08:56:02 Yes Jul 09 08:56:05 prolly gstreamer Jul 09 08:56:26 Which is pausable, I don't know why they don't have the ability to pause, it pisses me off :/ Jul 09 08:56:45 DocScrutinizer: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/11/rethinking-video-editing-with-novacut/ Jul 09 08:56:45 that's why I deprecate all those backends Jul 09 08:57:21 if you want it done properly, do it yourself (the mantra for the app, whatever it is, cam-ui or mediaplayer) Jul 09 08:58:23 Seemless playback is also possible, it's just tricky, and I'm not sure the pipeline that mafw uses (i think just playbin2), it can't do it, so :/ Jul 09 08:59:53 dmj726: LART that site, a cookie every 5s Jul 09 09:00:05 I feel like something has crawled into my brain and died. Jul 09 09:00:08 I can't read with all the ESC hitting Jul 09 09:00:19 esc hitting? Jul 09 09:00:44 dmj726: I'm not indiscriminately acepting all sorts of cookies Jul 09 09:00:59 ah, you have it ask you on each one Jul 09 09:01:29 yeah, and that friggin site sends a new one EVERY FIVE SECONDS Jul 09 09:02:22 Nice Jul 09 09:04:42 http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/NovacutSliceSequence-500x375.png Jul 09 09:04:56 now that I decided to bloat my negative-list file and "reject-all", it obviously runs in circles and doesn't let me post a "fix your f*ckng coockie nagging!" comment, instead there's a "please wait..." in the comment box :-( Jul 09 09:05:52 alterego, apparently mafw just drops the pulse pipe Jul 09 09:06:17 Hurrian: it drops the gst pipeline Jul 09 09:06:38 pulse is beside the point tbh Jul 09 09:06:53 Pulse has problems Jul 09 09:07:12 Rst can explain Jul 09 09:07:36 http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/gst-plugins-base-plugins/html/gst-plugins-base-plugins-playbin2.html#GstPlayBin2--uri Jul 09 09:07:40 this looks interesting Jul 09 09:23:06 Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74746 Jul 09 09:23:24 seems perhaps MWNworthy Jul 09 09:23:31 <[DarkGUNMAN]> morning all Jul 09 09:23:53 <[DarkGUNMAN]> does anyone have a working build environment on thieir n900? Jul 09 09:24:07 why? Jul 09 09:24:09 I tend to use python Jul 09 09:24:31 DarkGUNMAN : easy debian with build-essential Jul 09 09:25:18 <[DarkGUNMAN]> I'm trying to compile curlftpfs but I'm missing fuse - using n900sdk chroot image Jul 09 09:25:25 ah Jul 09 09:25:28 fuse.... Jul 09 09:26:05 should be buildable with scratchbox Jul 09 09:26:24 morning alls Jul 09 09:26:42 <[DarkGUNMAN]> according to the output i'm also missing diff Jul 09 09:27:22 Random ubuntu questions... Why does wireless take soooo long to connect? and is battery management generally bad? as it says i have 1hr 50 left on a full battery, yet dual boot back into Windows 7 and i have 3 hrs 58 Jul 09 09:27:31 <[DarkGUNMAN]> hurrian: is build-essential for easydebian an add-on in synaptic Jul 09 09:27:35 <[DarkGUNMAN]> ? Jul 09 09:27:40 Noobmonk3y_, tried in #ubuntu? Jul 09 09:27:50 ruskie, that would just be sensible ;) Jul 09 09:28:13 bahhh that room doesnt exist on freenode :P Jul 09 09:28:24 oh lol ? at end Jul 09 09:28:25 lol Jul 09 09:28:27 Noobmonk3y_: Battery life calculations are iffy at best Jul 09 09:28:33 On *any* system Jul 09 09:29:18 true Jul 09 09:29:20 Windows, IMHO, tends to over-report it: it may report it accurately sometimes, but it usually only reports it accurately if you aren't doing anything Jul 09 09:29:23 but big difference Jul 09 09:29:28 or have a stable workload Jul 09 09:29:54 Well, that's literally the difference between the cpu at full tilt and it idling, or the screen at max vs min... Jul 09 09:30:08 and ubuntu may under-report it Jul 09 09:30:52 Noobmonk3y_ using ubuntu 11.04? Jul 09 09:30:56 yeah Jul 09 09:31:05 power regression Jul 09 09:31:06 without that unity rubbish :) Jul 09 09:31:10 ooo regression?! Jul 09 09:31:27 again there's a power regression in 2.6.38 which ships with ubuntu 11.04 Jul 09 09:31:34 cool that makes sense :) Jul 09 09:31:43 thank you :) Jul 09 09:31:51 hense my total lack of understanding linux :) Jul 09 09:31:54 wait for 3.0.0, it's fixed there Jul 09 09:32:05 lol that sounds a looong way away Jul 09 09:32:43 a few weeks from now ;) Jul 09 09:32:48 cool Jul 09 09:33:05 speaking of 3.0.0, i better ask if meego CE's going to get it Jul 09 09:33:13 lol Jul 09 09:37:24 <[DarkGUNMAN]> hurrian: what do i need to do to get build-essentials insgtalled on easydebian? Jul 09 09:38:15 <[DarkGUNMAN]> sorry if this is simple stuff but i'm on a steep learning curve today! :) Jul 09 09:38:22 Hurrian: yes, it is Jul 09 09:38:39 Hurrian: it boots into UX but IIRC PM is still missing Jul 09 09:38:59 Hurrian: sources should be somewhere public now Jul 09 09:39:23 DarkGUNMAN : apt-get install build-essential Jul 09 09:39:30 (n900), dunno about the n9(|50) Jul 09 09:39:35 after that, install any additional dep libs Jul 09 09:39:52 <[DarkGUNMAN]> cheers :) Jul 09 09:40:09 dm8tbr, i'm guessing it must be a pain to reapply every single patch to 2.6.37, no? Jul 09 09:41:43 Hurrian: kimju mentioned something about pain, yes. although he did an awesome job of untangling everything for the n900 and 2.6.37 Jul 09 09:41:56 ah Jul 09 09:43:04 let's just hope that there will be a few people willing to do kernel work for n9(|00|50) after nokia stops Jul 09 09:44:04 so what's pkg-management on harmattan? Jul 09 09:44:05 I don't know about N950 but I know N900 may suffer the same fate as those in 770,N8{0,1}0 :) Jul 09 09:44:29 which is too bad as n900 is a great device Jul 09 09:44:32 psycho_oreos, as in no one wants to work on it anymore? Jul 09 09:44:45 DocScrutinizer , DEB Jul 09 09:44:59 hopefully, this time no more apt-worker Jul 09 09:45:12 Hurrian, that and the fact that device ages over time which deteriorates the overall amount of maemo fans alike :) Jul 09 09:45:18 e.g. I want to get bash, it's in http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/ Jul 09 09:45:34 I know I *could* dl the .deb Jul 09 09:46:00 and install with dpkg, I *hope* Jul 09 09:46:17 modulo aegis shouting at me Jul 09 09:46:22 for starters, N900 comes with a faulty mUSB port, those affected would no doubt be left out being able to develop further with N900. Then there are those of us hoping that our mUSB port would last and nothing else could become faulty over the life of the ARM powered device :) Jul 09 09:46:56 wait, aegis shouts at you for dpkg -i'ing debs? Jul 09 09:47:03 dunno Jul 09 09:47:11 unfortunately there really isn't anything close to the n900 as a replacement Jul 09 09:47:12 ah Jul 09 09:47:13 quite possible Jul 09 09:47:23 dmj726 , true Jul 09 09:47:45 kinda sorta the n950 but I'm under the impression those aren't exactly easy to come by Jul 09 09:47:58 in before we all have to put together gumstix-based phones Jul 09 09:48:18 android devices are right out as is the n9 Jul 09 09:48:32 maybe some random chinese company will step up to the plate Jul 09 09:48:49 dmj726, that's also true but inevitably these devices do come with a limited lifespan, so with the limited amount of fans dedicating themselves to maintaining the maemo framework. It'll be a matter of time before the inevitable becomes the unfortunate as N900's predecessors have faced Jul 09 09:48:49 dmj726 , i need a device with QUALITY Jul 09 09:49:14 and with the NIT track record, the future looks bleak for the N900 Jul 09 09:49:18 I'm not saying I think that's a good option Jul 09 09:49:23 yeah... Jul 09 09:49:37 and for the N9, it's a dead end Jul 09 09:49:42 and i want a keyboard! Jul 09 09:49:45 without a keyboard Jul 09 09:49:54 xterm is rubbish with an OSK Jul 09 09:49:57 Well, buy a couple N900s Jul 09 09:50:03 and keep em for a couple of years Jul 09 09:50:07 I'd probably be okay with a keyboardless device with two or more screens Jul 09 09:50:27 and forget about 1GB CPU, a/b/g/n wifi, 512MB of physical RAM? :) Jul 09 09:50:28 dmj726 the only double-screened devices out are Android based Jul 09 09:50:30 but not a single screen device Jul 09 09:50:31 Hopefully by then we'll have a good Android device with unlocked bootloader and good alternate OS - Meego or Kubuntu Mobile Jul 09 09:51:08 Hopefully by then phones will come with the option of OSes Jul 09 09:51:14 nexus S and nexus S+? (I think) has unlocked bootloaders Jul 09 09:51:36 It's not like it's hard to port drivers from android to meego Jul 09 09:51:40 dmj, that'll never happen. But someone will do it, especially if Meego gets going Jul 09 09:51:51 it'll never happen /from the factory/ really Jul 09 09:52:12 They might call them different models :P Jul 09 09:52:16 too much paperwork and hassle for them when all they care about is WP7 honestly Jul 09 09:52:30 hmm, it'll be a huge PITA to manufacture devices should we run out of N900s Jul 09 09:52:37 WP7 is never going in my pocket Jul 09 09:52:49 option 1 - modify openmoko GTA04 Jul 09 09:53:04 option 2 - modify OpenPandora Jul 09 09:53:17 the day when Nokia stops producing meego devices will be the end of my interest with Nokia Jul 09 09:53:26 Okay, unless M$ ports WP7 to debian enables multitasking and GPLs the whole thing Jul 09 09:53:41 psycho_oreos: agreed Jul 09 09:53:41 Hurrian, what about WebOS? Jul 09 09:53:44 option 3 - LEGOPHONE! Jul 09 09:53:59 psycho_oreos , isnt it 95% closed? Jul 09 09:54:10 If it had an unlocked bootloader and software, the Motorola Milestone 3 would be a good option Jul 09 09:54:12 dmj726, its sad they've literally cripped N950 and N9 in their own distinct ways Jul 09 09:54:26 psycho_oreos ++ Jul 09 09:54:26 Hurrian, well if you have a look at android I guess its more or less the same no? ;) Jul 09 09:54:44 psycho_oreos, on Android, you can at least port the OS Jul 09 09:55:03 WebOS -> it's like everything's hosted on nokia-binaries! Jul 09 09:55:11 Hurrian, though there's people getting WebOS games to work with N900. The name of the app escapes me Jul 09 09:55:18 lol Jul 09 09:55:19 preenv? Jul 09 09:55:25 yep Jul 09 09:55:30 that's because SDL Jul 09 09:55:46 other than that, NO RECOMPILING FOR OTHER PLATFORMS FOR U Jul 09 09:56:09 also, still no landscape phone Jul 09 09:56:24 i hate blackberries for that reason Jul 09 09:56:26 though admittedly WebOS will continue to roll on, much like android as it is nowadays. Openmoko hasn't been releasing any new devices and OpenPandora is still filling orders in for their own little gaming device (the last I checked, OpenPandora's device were closely matched to that of Nokia N900) Jul 09 09:56:59 Hurrian, true and yes I hate blackberries for a few other reasons as well Jul 09 09:57:03 Running MeeGo on most Android handsets will be hard because of closed blobs for cell modem, WiFi, GPU etc Jul 09 09:57:32 damn, why the hell are gumstix LCD kits very low res? Jul 09 09:57:49 no way am i going back to a phone of that res Jul 09 09:58:00 though ironically the original plan of MeeGo was to open as much as they could. Or is that just another lie Nokia decided to mock us up with? yet again Meego = Maemo's ideals under that fluff? :) Jul 09 09:58:44 heh Jul 09 09:58:56 ...OK, WTF. I'm trying to upload a package with the extras assistant, only to get "file upload error" Jul 09 09:59:03 as for the MicroB discussion from earlier (seen from the chat logs), I think the answer is to identify the closed bits of MicroB and their purpose Jul 09 09:59:04 anyone else have that problem? Jul 09 09:59:06 and then to rewrite them Jul 09 09:59:18 meego has largely bombed in the market, everyone's using Android even on x86 Jul 09 09:59:19 in the very least I guess the UI framework will probably be remain free, if not hacked open so those who switch to android or could find some similar home when installing the theme ;) Jul 09 09:59:36 jonwil, you can start with the browser UI Jul 09 09:59:53 i think nokia should've continued straight on with Maemo Jul 09 10:01:00 they could have done lots of things had it not been maemo CTO and what not leaving the company Jul 09 10:02:32 you know, like release Step 5 in 2010 Jul 09 10:03:16 whao ... my n900 is now in little piece :) Jul 09 10:03:33 right now, the N9 is too late for the party Jul 09 10:03:46 no other nokia device will have a swipe UI - WP7 disallows it Jul 09 10:04:06 the board accumulator seems rusted Jul 09 10:04:35 someone know if n900 boot without it ? i think it ll be better to remove it before it s collapse Jul 09 10:04:52 The trick is to figure out which bits need to be rewritten, which bits we can ignore and which bits we don't need to rewrite but do need to find out how to talk to Jul 09 10:04:54 Khertan , the USB port broke off? Jul 09 10:05:01 Hurrian, yep :) Jul 09 10:05:09 Hurrian, i m trying to repair it Jul 09 10:05:10 yes, it works fine without it Jul 09 10:05:13 thx Jul 09 10:05:18 except that you need to use a desktop charger Jul 09 10:05:24 and you need to scp files to the phone Jul 09 10:05:47 not the usb port, the little accumulator on the main board Jul 09 10:06:04 the one use for keeping time date when sweeping battery Jul 09 10:06:10 ah Jul 09 10:06:13 it s seems rusted Jul 09 10:06:20 so i m asking if i can remove it Jul 09 10:06:41 the RTC? ask robbiethe1st on how to replace it Jul 09 10:06:44 i ll try to fix the usb port by soldering it ... would be difficult due to the size Jul 09 10:07:28 there was a thread on t.m.o. on fixing the mUSB port the `man's way' have you tried that? :) Jul 09 10:07:38 Remove the clock battery? Yes, you can do it without adverse affects - aside from no clock with the main battery removed Jul 09 10:07:42 jonwil , the browser UI is closed, microb-engine is open but very old Jul 09 10:08:00 Replacing it's slightly more difficult; DocScrutinizer knows the exact supercapacitor to replace it with. Jul 09 10:09:02 Hurrian: Means it would probably be entirely possible to update microb-engine Jul 09 10:09:19 as for an "open" phone, I think a possible option would be Motorola Milestone 2/3 if Motorola follows through on its policy of shipping unlocked bootloaders Jul 09 10:09:19 yes, but someone needs to disable xulrunner Jul 09 10:09:50 http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R Jul 09 10:09:57 robbiethe1st, it s already the case for the clock battery, as battery is dead ... but battery start collapsing to avoid collateral damage i think it ll be better to remove it :) Jul 09 10:10:05 Yes. Jul 09 10:10:10 robbiethe1st, thx Jul 09 10:10:20 I'd remove it, order the $5 replacement part, and later install it Jul 09 10:10:31 cause, you know, having the RTC going is handy... Jul 09 10:10:35 hmm, so the last nokia device i'll buy would either be a N9 or N950, and the latter would only be if they're sold on TMO ;) Jul 09 10:10:55 after that, it's android Jul 09 10:11:18 Just.... be careful when removing the + pin. I managed to break off the pad, and that's one pin that's really hard to replace - the only other connection is on the other side of the board, on a tiny resistor... Jul 09 10:11:36 psycho_oreos: FORGET this hoax of that arab terrorist troll about "fixing USB" Jul 09 10:11:46 DocScrutinizer, :o Jul 09 10:11:55 for some reason, the HTC HD2 is the only phone that got decent adaptation of alien OSes Jul 09 10:11:56 Problem is I have very little interest in android Jul 09 10:12:15 other than that, missing drivers everywhere Jul 09 10:12:46 so it's basically just waiting for a good meego device or hoping android will become more like Ubuntu somehow Jul 09 10:12:49 supposedly HTC has got very good documentation on its hardware but apart from that I wouldn't know Jul 09 10:13:29 where the hell is the phone with easily replaceable OSes? Jul 09 10:13:55 where is the phone with fully swappable storage? Jul 09 10:13:57 Or hoping *somehow* all the gas particles in the room fly to one half of the room due to probability and Ubuntu becomes fantastic preinstalled OS on smartphones Jul 09 10:14:56 robbiethe1st, ouch ... the accu is soldered ... Jul 09 10:14:57 grr Jul 09 10:15:20 Yes. I know Jul 09 10:15:39 It took a bit of magnet wire, over an hour, and quite a bit of fussing. Jul 09 10:15:40 dmj726: I prefer the idea that your pot melts while the water inside is freezing, due to same effect Jul 09 10:16:12 DocScrutinizer: yeah, that one's good Jul 09 10:17:14 Khertan: unsoldering the button cell is extremely easy... with TWO 30W soldering irons Jul 09 10:17:49 Ok, guys, can someone help me? I'm trying to use scp to upload to extras-devel, and I keep getting "Permission denied (publickey).". What am I doing wrong? Jul 09 10:18:35 use sshfs ;) Jul 09 10:18:43 probably wrong pass Jul 09 10:19:20 Khertan: OR you use a piece of not too thin aluminium (not exactly foil off the roll), and push this between batery contact and pad gently when solder is molten Jul 09 10:19:43 or use paper if you find a good one Jul 09 10:20:14 Well, I mean, I'm following the key-based instructions here http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras-devel#Setting_up_SSH_to_upload_to_extras Jul 09 10:20:19 just make sure you're not bending up the battery on one end while other end is still soldered Jul 09 10:21:11 ok, c'mon, where's "HAM" in harmattan? Jul 09 10:21:24 battery removed Jul 09 10:21:26 ouf Jul 09 10:21:36 now usb part Jul 09 10:21:46 eh??? Jul 09 10:21:55 *remove* USB? Jul 09 10:22:22 ooh, your superglue abomination Jul 09 10:22:50 robbiethe1st, to be honest I wouldn't have a clue :| Jul 09 10:23:28 Darnit, I'm just trying to get a package uploaded. Jul 09 10:23:36 robbiethe1st: you inserted wrong ssh key to the webpage there Jul 09 10:24:01 morning Jul 09 10:24:12 moo moh Jul 09 10:24:24 remove superglue? Jul 09 10:24:28 uhh, acetone? Jul 09 10:24:31 DocScrutinizer: I assume so, but I just generated another key, cat'd the .pub file, copied, pasted into textbox Jul 09 10:24:36 MohammadAG: how do I install "apps" on harm? Jul 09 10:24:45 I then ran the scp line with -i /path/to/privkey Jul 09 10:25:02 and no luck. I can't figure it out Jul 09 10:25:05 robbiethe1st: you must cut the end or sth like that Jul 09 10:25:26 or head? can't remember, look at it and you'll see it Jul 09 10:26:37 robbiethe1st: and *obviously* you need to "upload" the matching pubkey for your new private key Jul 09 10:26:48 I did that, I'm pretty darn sure Jul 09 10:27:17 Hurrian: ice spray Jul 09 10:27:22 or heat Jul 09 10:27:25 or both Jul 09 10:27:40 the device won't like to get swamped with acetone Jul 09 10:28:12 will definitely ruin parts Jul 09 10:28:36 robbiethe1st: you need to trim it first, then "upload" Jul 09 10:28:49 trim it? Jul 09 10:29:03 cat publickey_rsa Jul 09 10:29:08 you'll see it Jul 09 10:29:29 look closely, there's a leading (or trailing) machine id or sth Jul 09 10:30:00 Yes. that's not supposed to be there? Jul 09 10:30:10 what about the ssh-rsa bit at the beginning? Jul 09 10:30:19 kaeciubuieiuerialbcaljhdg:HOSTNAME Jul 09 10:30:44 try it, I cloudily recall you have to trim it Jul 09 10:31:07 I have "ssh-rsa(space)*base64 data*(space)user@hostname" Jul 09 10:31:34 user@hostname HAS to go AFAIK Jul 09 10:31:40 not sure about the header Jul 09 10:32:44 I could look what mine looks like, IF i could recall what's been the webpage URL Jul 09 10:34:45 https://garage.maemo.org/account/index.php Jul 09 10:35:27 and can you check if you can login to the build server yourself? Seeing as the extras-assistant's not working, it could be a server issue or something Jul 09 10:35:40 ssh-dss AAAAB3NzaC1kc3MAAAEBAP8Bo+QhQ3s1qaC6AyzC Jul 09 10:35:55 .... Jul 09 10:36:24 Hm... ssh-dss eh? Jul 09 10:36:50 my flavour of key Jul 09 10:37:03 ssh-rsa will work as well I guess Jul 09 10:37:50 ooh, your superglue abomination <<< ? Jul 09 10:37:52 Just trying to eliminate possible errors Jul 09 10:38:08 Can you try logging in yourself? I'm still getting the error Jul 09 10:38:12 DocScrutinizer, usb was broken Jul 09 10:38:19 DocScrutinizer, so trying to fix it Jul 09 10:38:50 Khertan: yes, gathered as much - so why do you want to remove USB when it came off anyway? Jul 09 10:38:59 or errr wut... Jul 09 10:40:09 Khertan: sorry, there have been way too many users who got USB breakage and were fixing it during last few days Jul 09 10:40:23 I prolly mix up things Jul 09 10:40:48 robbiethe1st: I'd need an idea how to login at all Jul 09 10:40:59 sftp? Jul 09 10:41:10 which URL? Jul 09 10:41:12 http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras-devel#scp Jul 09 10:41:34 I on'tplan to scp anything to builhost Jul 09 10:41:49 you use dput? Jul 09 10:42:03 I on'tplan to * anything to builhost Jul 09 10:42:23 You don't use extras-devel? Jul 09 10:42:50 I don't HAVE ANYTHING to * anything to builhost Jul 09 10:42:56 Oh. Ok Jul 09 10:43:14 shall I uppload /dev/null or what? Jul 09 10:43:19 Yes. :P Jul 09 10:43:38 No, I'm just trying to figure out if it's me, or the server that's F***ing up. Jul 09 10:43:46 got it Jul 09 10:43:49 especially as the extras-assistant's not working Jul 09 10:44:04 but I can't upload rubbish to see if that works, no? Jul 09 10:44:28 Heck, just knowing if you can *login* is important. Jul 09 10:44:36 if *anyone* can login Jul 09 10:44:54 HOW T F am I going to *login* via scp?? Jul 09 10:45:23 Um... scp uses ssh and logs in, doesn't it? Jul 09 10:45:33 *sigh* Jul 09 10:45:40 sorryu Jul 09 10:45:54 that doesn't mean I could login via ssh to a shell Jul 09 10:46:24 I only could test if I actually could transfer what? rubbish? via scp Jul 09 10:46:30 Point... But wouldn't you get an error of "no shell allowed" or something, vs "permission denied(pubkey)"? Jul 09 10:46:37 um Jul 09 10:47:06 You can have this if you want: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/BackupMenu/backupmenu_1.1-1_amd64.changes Jul 09 10:47:41 what's the destination URL and user? Jul 09 10:47:48 err scratch the user Jul 09 10:48:06 scp *.tar.gz *.diff.gz *.changes *.dsc @drop.maemo.org:/var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle/ Jul 09 10:48:28 use dput Jul 09 10:49:22 alright, whynot Jul 09 10:49:25 MohammadAG: please would you... Jul 09 10:49:48 MohammadAG: I'm *used* to using the extras-assistant, which isn't working. Jul 09 10:49:51 I did that shit exactly once, ~18months ago Jul 09 10:50:22 I'm trying to keep it simple. I have files, I want them uploaded. I don't have scratchbox. Jul 09 10:53:30 http://paste.debian.net/122400/ Jul 09 10:53:42 looks kinda borked to me Jul 09 10:53:51 DocScrutinizer, :) Jul 09 10:54:00 Ok, thanks Jul 09 10:54:03 Wouhou ! USB Port repair ... :) Jul 09 10:54:06 I'll just forget about it tonight Jul 09 10:54:06 thx all :) Jul 09 10:54:29 If you want the new Backupmenu, you've got to get it off my website for today. Jul 09 10:56:18 btw musing about it I seem to never have used scp or dput but that website Jul 09 10:57:19 and the webpage for upload ... >>The SSH key is only required when submitting packages via dput. The key is not required by the Extras Assistant web interface.<< Jul 09 10:58:22 Yea Jul 09 10:58:30 it's not that unusual when builthost blows chunks - esp during weekends when nobody is going to fix it ;-) Jul 09 11:00:02 Seems like it needs an auto-reset/reboot timer Jul 09 11:00:22 Maby setup a watchdog that, when no packages have been built in ~6 hours, restart the computer Jul 09 11:00:44 since at least for now, it happens far more frequently than that when it's working Jul 09 11:04:03 eeeek :-o http://paste.debian.net/122402/ Jul 09 11:05:57 dang, apt-cache search bash returns in not ime with nuttin, still Jul 09 11:06:23 feeling like a noob Jul 09 11:06:44 o/ bbl Jul 09 11:06:51 MohammadAG: how do I install "apps" on harm? Jul 09 11:06:58 isn't there package-manager? Jul 09 11:07:04 and there aren't any repos Jul 09 11:07:26 can't find a package-manager Jul 09 11:07:44 there's a strange thin under settings-applications Jul 09 11:08:01 but it seems it's for uninstalling only Jul 09 11:08:14 or for updating Jul 09 11:10:48 maybe I need to navigate to harmattan-dev.nokia.com with browser, then click on a .deb?? Jul 09 11:11:17 NFC Jul 09 11:12:25 or to store :-O Jul 09 11:12:55 "STORE Coming Soon" Jul 09 11:13:00 meh Jul 09 11:13:41 btw, what browser is Harmattan using? Jul 09 11:13:51 Is it using some version of MicroB Jul 09 11:14:05 or something closer to fennec? Jul 09 11:14:32 jonwil: Last I heard it was WebKit 2 based Jul 09 11:14:43 oh ok Jul 09 11:14:55 so its open webkit with a closed ui. Sounds crap then Jul 09 11:15:01 webkit Jul 09 11:15:18 I'd kill for a gecko based browser on Harmattan Jul 09 11:15:22 something as simple as microB Jul 09 11:15:49 jonwil: it did pretty good with HTML 5 though Jul 09 11:15:55 MohammadAG: there should be fennec for it Jul 09 11:16:28 I am saying its crap because its yet another closed package Jul 09 11:16:31 i.e. the closed UI Jul 09 11:16:40 the webkit engine is not that bad Jul 09 11:17:10 ah Jul 09 11:17:13 I think Apple has done more to advance mobile web browsers than anyone else actually (thanks to their webkit-for-iphone work which they have to release under LGPL) Jul 09 11:17:46 "*Can't install* Invalid installation package" Jul 09 11:19:34 DocScrutinizer: http://bit.ly/p7xZHX see if you can isntall that Jul 09 11:19:47 thats my app, installed fine on RDA Jul 09 11:20:13 thanks, but later maybe Jul 09 11:20:25 this device is not exactly fun Jul 09 11:20:29 hah Jul 09 11:20:44 DocScrutinizer: it just a test to see if something installs atleast Jul 09 11:21:11 this device is not exactly fun <-- at least you have it first hand compared to those of us who has no chance of obtaining one :) Jul 09 11:21:31 otherwise the device is useless, aegis wont let us run stuff, and .debs wont install :P Jul 09 11:21:44 psycho_oreos: your time shall come :P Jul 09 11:21:58 MohammadAG: tried qt-components ? Jul 09 11:22:00 hiemanshu, to own a `pre-loved' N950? :) Jul 09 11:22:12 psycho_oreos: better than none? Jul 09 11:22:54 hell I clicked on http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb Jul 09 11:22:58 hiemanshu, more like to find it more broken than initially but hey I suppose whatever rocks your boat :) I was initally very keen on it and now looking back at that same decision I'm not so keen Jul 09 11:23:04 if that doesn't install, what else? Jul 09 11:23:38 i did my longest mobile web browsing session ever last night at the poker tourney Jul 09 11:23:38 psycho_oreos: Mine should be shipped on monday :P Jul 09 11:23:43 DocScrutinizer: ah lol, that sucks Jul 09 11:23:53 surely there has to be a way to bypass `aegis', if aegis is something like SELinux Jul 09 11:23:57 macmaN: how long was that? Jul 09 11:24:04 n950 is the first device that actually provides a pleasant experience doing that and the built in browser is still in half baked shape Jul 09 11:24:04 hiemanshu, indeed, and where's mine? :p Jul 09 11:24:13 well the battery ended up lasting for like 3+ hours total i think Jul 09 11:24:41 psycho_oreos: in the warehouse, eating dust? :P Jul 09 11:24:44 i'm seriously thinking about telling them to start putting usb charger points into poker tables Jul 09 11:24:58 hiemanshu, more like not a chance :) Jul 09 11:25:15 macmaN: hah Jul 09 11:25:22 psycho_oreos: I was just being nice :P Jul 09 11:26:05 hiemanshu, haha thanks but what's done is done, I'll happily accompany with SpeedEvil and others who went into the reject bin Jul 09 11:26:28 s/who/whom/ Jul 09 11:26:28 psycho_oreos meant: hiemanshu, haha thanks but what's done is done, I'll happily accompany with SpeedEvil and others whom went into the reject bin Jul 09 11:26:36 psycho_oreos: you should all drive up to .fi, and burn down the offices till they hand you your N950 :P Jul 09 11:26:50 ok arent the murder plots getting old by now Jul 09 11:26:56 hiemanshu, and serve time in jail? I think I'll be fine :D Jul 09 11:27:05 macmaN: no, this is burning, not murder :P Jul 09 11:27:34 psycho_oreos: well practise running, and learn to escape from the police :P Jul 09 11:27:39 in fact Elop probably wouldn't care anyway if offices in .fi were burnt down Jul 09 11:27:41 I'd gather there *has* to be a wiki page explaining installation of $random-crap like http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb Jul 09 11:27:55 but honestly, getting tired Jul 09 11:28:04 hiemanshu, I'll stay in the jail longer if I did a premeditated attack :) Jul 09 11:28:15 s/stay/stay longer/ Jul 09 11:28:15 psycho_oreos meant: hiemanshu, I'll stay longer in the jail longer if I did a premeditated attack :) Jul 09 11:28:26 first tests on hostmode were futile. Same as on stock N900 Jul 09 11:28:30 ugh Jul 09 11:28:35 so I'll call it a day Jul 09 11:28:42 i.e. non-existant? o.O Jul 09 11:28:53 DocScrutinizer: can you recap with a oneliner what you have found broken? i just got online Jul 09 11:29:09 sounds like more than just bash Jul 09 11:29:20 I want to install http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb Jul 09 11:29:42 I have no clue what's harmattan's HAM Jul 09 11:29:56 apt-get worked for me :) Jul 09 11:30:07 for... python-feedparser i think Jul 09 11:30:08 apt-cache search shows nuttin - well I guess it's missing repo Jul 09 11:30:12 right Jul 09 11:30:27 DocScrutinizer: cat /etc/apt/sources.list Jul 09 11:30:33 see the repos there? Jul 09 11:30:52 directly clicking the URL in browser got me "*Can't install* Invalid installation package" Jul 09 11:31:22 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# cat /etc/apt/sources.list Jul 09 11:31:23 cat: can't open '/etc/apt/sources.list': No such file or directory Jul 09 11:31:35 hiemanshu, no, not yet Jul 09 11:31:39 yeah theres only sources.list.d with couple of non-meaningful things in there Jul 09 11:31:40 l8ters Jul 09 11:31:45 could it be like a similar case in N900 where its in /etc/apt/sources.list.d or something liek that? Jul 09 11:32:11 yeah possible Jul 09 11:32:33 the whole installing is aegis-ized Jul 09 11:32:36 surely apt-* has to get their source from somewhere.. maybe run lsof or have something like a fs monitoring daemon such as iwatch Jul 09 11:32:54 what if you do dpkg -i foo.deb for instance? Jul 09 11:33:15 see http://paste.debian.net/122402/ Jul 09 11:34:08 funny that its grabbing stuff from maemo repsitory rather than harmattan-dev Jul 09 11:35:03 do you have lsof? if so run lsof on that apt-get Jul 09 11:39:15 psycho_oreos: dpkg -i worked fine for me, when i tried installing my openvpn package Jul 09 11:40:05 macmaN, at least it seems `aegis' couldn't stop that :) Jul 09 11:43:40 * jonwil is surprised how many YouTube videos exist of people remixing the famous Nokia tune Jul 09 11:44:19 indeed, there's plenty of bored people out there ;) Jul 09 11:51:13 * jonwil thinks many cell carriers are the scum of the earth and need to die and be replaced with non-greedy companies Jul 09 11:52:00 http://paste.debian.net/122408/ calling $random-installer from browser, by clicking on the downloaded file, failed... meh Jul 09 11:53:39 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# which bash Jul 09 11:53:41 /bin/bash Jul 09 11:53:42 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# bash Jul 09 11:53:44 -sh: bash: Operation not permitted Jul 09 11:53:50 \o/ aegis Jul 09 11:54:31 * alterego contemplates installing visual studio Jul 09 11:54:47 Heh Jul 09 11:54:59 DocScrutinizer, check to see if bash has execute perms Jul 09 11:55:03 * DocScrutinizer contemplates sending back this xxxxxx Jul 09 11:55:14 dude Jul 09 11:55:34 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# ls -l `which bash` Jul 09 11:55:36 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 859100 Feb 7 17:32 /bin/bash Jul 09 11:55:48 weird Jul 09 11:55:56 ~aegis Jul 09 11:55:57 methinks aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 09 11:56:00 and id yields root? Jul 09 11:56:03 It's not weird, it's aegis Jul 09 11:56:05 DocScrutinizer: if achipa is right you should be able to disable this Jul 09 11:56:21 if it's not installed by the package manager, it wont run. Jul 09 11:56:36 exactly Jul 09 11:56:57 that's pissing me off Jul 09 11:57:32 UID=root,0 and yet you're the fool Jul 09 11:57:33 so in a way they've effectively turned Meego into that shitty Symbian trusted model of where programs are to be signed before they could be installed? lol Jul 09 11:58:04 YES Jul 09 11:58:05 *shrugs* I don't have the device :) Jul 09 11:58:07 ~aegis Jul 09 11:58:08 methinks aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 09 11:58:28 and the first link yields 404 on my end Jul 09 11:59:01 WFM Jul 09 11:59:28 the funny thing was in that pastebin output, line 5 noted aegis intercepted the file but could not clarify the source Jul 09 11:59:45 I'm sure you can disable it DocScrutinizer Jul 09 11:59:50 *scratches head* wouldn't there be a way to make aegis pick up dpkg as a recognised tool? Jul 09 12:00:05 I'm sure *I* can't Jul 09 12:00:11 maybe Nokia can Jul 09 12:00:23 ah well if you're not a nokia developer you get 404 that's all I can say :) I'm not one because I wasn't accepted to be a developer Jul 09 12:00:39 ooh, great! Jul 09 12:01:05 works for me Jul 09 12:01:40 * psycho_oreos is eager to hack that thing, alas if someone has their N950 with ssh and linked to internet maybe I can create some havoc ;) Jul 09 12:01:58 petteri, you logged in? Jul 09 12:02:17 i am not Jul 09 12:02:21 DocScrutinizer: maybe just flash a custom kernel? ;) Jul 09 12:02:30 http://www.google.de/search?q="Application+security+refers+to+procedures+used+in+the+design,+development,+deployment,+upgrade"&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 Jul 09 12:02:50 this channel is slowly trasforming to yet another tmo with all the whiners Jul 09 12:03:02 alterego: SURE! Jul 09 12:03:25 petteri, fancy that. I can see it working but obviously nothing to describe it Jul 09 12:03:34 strange Jul 09 12:03:44 petteri, maybe you have a cached version? Jul 09 12:04:01 are we talking about the same page? Jul 09 12:04:18 would you please refer to the google page and see if the link there works?! Jul 09 12:04:28 petteri, I'm talking about: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide Jul 09 12:04:36 * psycho_oreos checks google link Jul 09 12:04:46 yes that one works for me Jul 09 12:05:10 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide Jul 09 12:05:14 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide Jul 09 12:06:04 Oooops .. sorry . didn't realise putty auto copied... Jul 09 12:06:27 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dB3ljaTknZUJ:library.developer.nokia.com/topic/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_Security_guide_4f17.html+Application+security+refers+to+procedures+used+in+the+design,+development,+deployment,+upgrade&cd=1&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&source=www.google.de <-- this worked Jul 09 12:06:51 I cleared my cache and reloaded that initial link (not google link) and no still no dice Jul 09 12:07:03 the link in ~aegis has a comma at its end, which shouldn't be there of course Jul 09 12:07:21 the page loads fine here without this comma Jul 09 12:08:45 hah! *slaps forehead* and that works lol thanks idont Jul 09 12:09:01 psycho_oreos: yw Jul 09 12:10:34 ~aegis Jul 09 12:10:34 from memory, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 09 12:10:35 haha, if your irc client includes the comma, to bad Jul 09 12:10:40 mine doesn't Jul 09 12:10:49 I'm using plain xchat :-/ Jul 09 12:10:50 yeah, doesn't include comma here either Jul 09 12:11:16 what a shame, ah well Jul 09 12:11:35 infobot: no, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 09 12:11:36 okay, DocScrutinizer Jul 09 12:11:51 :-D Jul 09 12:11:55 I'm using more or less a plain xchat :) Jul 09 12:13:19 petteri: thanks for jumping in :-) Jul 09 12:17:19 NB I've enabled "Allow installations from non-Store sources" in settings-installations Jul 09 12:19:12 ...while the "menu entry" one above, named "Manage applications" seems to only have a list of installed apps I could UNinstall, and a "update" tab that says "device is up to date" Jul 09 12:19:43 I really fail to get it what's the supposed standard way to install apps on harm Jul 09 12:19:44 hehe Jul 09 12:19:48 Symbian Anna leaked Jul 09 12:19:53 alterego, feeling brave? Jul 09 12:21:16 Jaffa: any hints? Jul 09 12:32:56 my n950 vibrates and beeps in seemingly random fashion every once in a while. there's no message of any kind visible when i look at the lock screen after i hear it. does it do it going in and out of network coverage? i'm in a spotty coverage area. Jul 09 12:35:00 I'd run dbus-monitor --system Jul 09 12:35:13 or dbus-monitor --system | grep -A 5 mce Jul 09 12:35:21 and leave it running to see which pattern's vibrating Jul 09 12:36:48 just in case you're still interested in finding how to (not) add repos to apt: http://paste.debian.net/122414/ Jul 09 12:39:18 MohammadAG: hehe thats pretty cool Jul 09 12:40:28 DocScrutinizer: do a watch 'lsof|grep apt >> apt-get.txt', and then run apt-get update in another terminal Jul 09 12:40:47 hiemanshu: ????? Jul 09 12:41:01 what's wrong with the list I posted? Jul 09 12:41:26 DocScrutinizer: its not showing anything with an actual list source Jul 09 12:41:33 indeed Jul 09 12:42:14 and what makes you thing your method will show this, while my ^Z stopping of apt-get update doesn't? Jul 09 12:42:20 think* Jul 09 12:43:02 DocScrutinizer: werent you supposed to call it a day? Jul 09 12:43:04 :> Jul 09 12:43:06 I bet list source is in aegisfs Jul 09 12:43:28 well mostly because it might be accessing the file at that moment Jul 09 12:43:34 so having it in a loop, makes sense Jul 09 12:44:26 don't you think strace was a better choice then? Jul 09 12:46:13 right, that would be a better choice Jul 09 12:47:23 zomg i left xscreensaver into "pick random" mode on a client machine Jul 09 12:48:01 now im sitting here and seeing a screensaver with bomb screens for mac system 7 or 9, BSODs, fake linux kernel panics etc Jul 09 12:48:14 see, it's simple: as alterego(?) noticed quite correctly, aegis won't run binaries that aren't installed via standard method (let's assume that's apt for now). So it wouldn't make *any* sense when a rogue process could simply add a repo to apt's repo-source.list and then install whatever it wants. You can't edit that list as usual Jul 09 12:48:41 if your concentrating on something else that shiznit freaks ME out for a sec, its probably not good for the dumbusers at all Jul 09 12:51:07 Hm, it's all up to /you/ then. You need to build the proper tool to break all this Aegis crap. You are the only one who can do it! Jul 09 12:51:44 Just install a custom kernel .. Jul 09 12:51:50 Or remove it from the rootfs Jul 09 12:52:27 alterego: no go, achipa said that wouldn't work Jul 09 12:52:46 And that's why we need something like backupmenu. That would explain Quim's comment in his decline email to me about Backupmenu potentially not being able to be ported.... Jul 09 12:52:50 Hrm, did he say what would work? Jul 09 12:52:59 mostly because some binaries are signed, and some are encrypted Jul 09 12:53:02 probably be able to, but it'd screw things up as everyone'd be able to edit the rootfs easily. Jul 09 12:53:55 I don't see why that matters. Jul 09 12:53:57 so if there is no way to decrypt the binaries, they wouldn't run at all, and you would have a unusuable system Jul 09 12:54:13 Only devs require this type of functionality. Jul 09 12:54:52 Well, lets see... the binaries have to run unencrypted, right? might it be possible to grab the code from memory once it's unlocked? Jul 09 12:54:53 tell that to nokia :P Jul 09 12:55:25 robbiethe1st: if only it was that easy :P Jul 09 12:55:25 FWIW: Jul 09 12:55:30 open("/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99ssu", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4 Jul 09 12:55:31 open("/etc/apt/sources.list.d/", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_LARGEFILE|O_DIRECTORY|O_CLOEXEC) = 4 Jul 09 12:55:33 open("/etc/apt/sources.list.d/aegis.ssu-keyring-dadd.list", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4 Jul 09 12:55:34 open("/etc/apt/sources.list.d/osa.list", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4 Jul 09 12:56:21 Well, I'm off. while you guys get to mess with /draconian/ DRM restrictions, I get to stay with my open -- but not quite so new -- N900. :P Jul 09 12:56:50 Well, I don't have an N950 yet :P Jul 09 12:56:50 DocScrutinizer: aha, it does read those files, now to find a way to decrypt them Jul 09 12:56:51 * DocScrutinizer hugs his N900 Jul 09 12:56:58 DocScrutinizer: mind pasting the 3 files? Jul 09 12:57:06 lol Jul 09 12:57:40 * hiemanshu doesn't have one, so will have to wait :( Jul 09 12:57:40 I'm using my N900 right now to IRC anyway :P Jul 09 12:58:24 my n950 sleeps at leipzig airport over the weekend :( Jul 09 12:58:42 I am on my terrace with a laptop :P Enjoying the nice cool breeze and ranting about qt-components Jul 09 12:58:44 Acquire::https::Verify-Peer 0; Jul 09 12:58:45 ~ Jul 09 12:58:54 which binary is reading those files? Jul 09 12:58:59 jonwil: apt-get update Jul 09 12:59:00 deb https://qa9recEP:Pat2UGuP@downloads.maemo.nokia.com/harmattan/rm680 ./ Jul 09 12:59:01 deb https://qa9recEP:Pat2UGuP@downloads.maemo.nokia.com/harmattan/tools ./ Jul 09 12:59:03 deb https://qa9recEP:Pat2UGuP@downloads.maemo.nokia.com/harmattan/apps ./ Jul 09 12:59:04 ~ Jul 09 12:59:16 deb-exec /usr/bin/osa Jul 09 12:59:17 ~ Jul 09 12:59:48 Heh, I'm setting up a dev system based on Windows 7 on my exo pc Jul 09 13:00:20 hmm, username and password too Jul 09 13:00:22 thats odd Jul 09 13:00:58 someone wanna look up which files come from the maemointernal-keyring file? Jul 09 13:01:01 package I mean Jul 09 13:01:15 jonwil: fremantle? Jul 09 13:01:22 Harmattan Jul 09 13:01:32 thats something from a harmattan dpkg -l list I have Jul 09 13:01:37 DocScrutinizer: dpkg -L Jul 09 13:01:51 hmm? Jul 09 13:02:12 DocScrutinizer: dpkg -L maemointernal-keyring Jul 09 13:02:18 jonwil wants it Jul 09 13:02:20 DocScrutinizer: have you tried flashing the device? Jul 09 13:02:31 Or are the published images still old? Jul 09 13:02:33 nah Jul 09 13:02:37 alterego: where are the flashers? couldn't find em Jul 09 13:03:17 http://paste.debian.net/122416/ Jul 09 13:03:38 jonwil: ^ Jul 09 13:04:09 hiemanshu: they're at the develop nokia site, Jul 09 13:04:26 alterego: I found the flasher, not the image Jul 09 13:04:32 Someone should do whatever command it is to find which package provides /etc/apt/sources.list.d and /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99ssu Jul 09 13:06:03 erm, they were the same file, it was a self extracting archive. Jul 09 13:06:38 knowing which package contains those files might help one understand where the protection against install random crap comes from Jul 09 13:07:09 if you're further interested: http://paste.debian.net/122417/ Jul 09 13:07:50 DocScrutinizer: dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list.d and /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99ssu Jul 09 13:08:36 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list Jul 09 13:08:38 dpkg: /etc/apt/sources.list not found. Jul 09 13:09:05 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# dpkg -S /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99ssu Jul 09 13:09:06 ssu-keyring-dadd: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99ssu Jul 09 13:09:19 DocScrutinizer: list.d Jul 09 13:09:22 you missed a .d Jul 09 13:09:54 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list.d Jul 09 13:09:55 apt: /etc/apt/sources.list.d Jul 09 13:10:15 ok, so what does dpkg -L ssu-keyring-dadd say? Jul 09 13:11:46 http://paste.debian.net/122419/ Jul 09 13:13:44 what does dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list.d/osa.list say? Jul 09 13:14:20 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list.d/osa.list Jul 09 13:14:22 dpkg: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/osa.list not found. Jul 09 13:14:52 osa sounds like ovi store adapter Jul 09 13:14:56 yeah Jul 09 13:15:16 is there a way to make dpkg or apt list all packages that depend on package x? Jul 09 13:15:18 you dont understand banking Jul 09 13:15:23 specifically the package apt Jul 09 13:15:34 isn't this like "Startrek"? Scotty: "Computer: what does dpkg -S /etc/apt/sources.list.d/osa.list say?" Jul 09 13:16:03 lol Jul 09 13:16:42 who owna the media docscrutinizer? Jul 09 13:17:37 doesn't compute Jul 09 13:18:18 hahah Jul 09 13:18:36 Kind Jul 09 13:18:43 Depp Jul 09 13:19:07 Wichser Jul 09 13:19:14 windows 7 really hits the exo hard, it's struggling now, fan going full pelt and it's quite hot .. Jul 09 13:19:38 This is what those intel based phones are gonna be like I bet. Jul 09 13:20:53 we have some smart people in here, I am sure we can put our heads together and figure out the file(s) that are involved in determining where apt-get install will look Jul 09 13:21:05 and the files involved in ensuring that list isn't tampered with Jul 09 13:21:15 jonwil: believe me it doesn't help Jul 09 13:21:53 in the end it's aegis that calculates hashes, compares signatures, and allows or denies stuff Jul 09 13:22:49 So you may be able to install arbitrary stuff. Jul 09 13:22:58 But if it's not blessed, it will segfault Jul 09 13:23:01 or whatever Jul 09 13:23:06 oh ok Jul 09 13:23:06 It won't start Jul 09 13:23:19 so how do you turn off aegis? Jul 09 13:23:22 or cant you? Jul 09 13:23:25 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# bash Jul 09 13:23:27 -sh: bash: Operation not permitted Jul 09 13:23:33 jonwil: you can't Jul 09 13:24:01 What is 'developer mode' Jul 09 13:24:18 as there's an arbitrary number of core components that are linked against and rely on aegis Jul 09 13:24:21 enabales usb networking and installs ssh/term and some other utilities Jul 09 13:24:59 SpeedEvil: developer mode is when aegis decides the platform is "tainted" -basically Jul 09 13:25:32 It's another state of aegis Jul 09 13:26:59 what core components are linked to aegis then? Jul 09 13:27:04 frals: don't *you* know how to install e.g. bash from http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb (or any other source) Jul 09 13:27:40 DocScrutinizer: cant say ive ever tried, and i guess something complains when you do dpkg -i on your device? ;P Jul 09 13:27:46 jonwil: well, obviously apt and busybox at least Jul 09 13:27:51 In tainted mode, will it let you run anything? Jul 09 13:28:03 frals: nothing complains Jul 09 13:28:11 just (see above) Jul 09 13:28:14 ah Jul 09 13:28:29 isnt there some aegis-exec bullshitcrap you can to run it? Jul 09 13:28:51 tbh i never cared much for that aegis piece of shit, i disable it whenever i need to muck around on any device :( Jul 09 13:28:51 dunno, maybe. there's a aegis-exec Jul 09 13:29:05 how??? Jul 09 13:29:09 eh Jul 09 13:29:11 Heh Jul 09 13:29:12 which i assume is not possible on your devices :p Jul 09 13:29:21 :-P Jul 09 13:29:22 awww :P Jul 09 13:29:37 but i guess you got access to flasher and the images right? Jul 09 13:29:46 yup Jul 09 13:29:55 the ONE obsolete image Jul 09 13:29:59 frals: is there a new image? I heard there was a new image recently Jul 09 13:30:12 Going to be hard to do too much on the N950 if you cant run random software Jul 09 13:30:15 i have no clue about what images there are for devs Jul 09 13:30:23 DocScrutinizer: one fiasco + emmc i guess? Jul 09 13:30:35 think so, yes Jul 09 13:30:36 Whats the point of a developer phone if you cant run stuff you write? Jul 09 13:30:43 anyway, the following might take a shit all over your device so dont blame me if it fucks it up Jul 09 13:30:46 echo 0 > /etc/aegis/enable; echo 0 > /etc/aegis/enforce; sync; reboot Jul 09 13:31:11 im pretty sure it wont let you boot afterwards with the devices you got ;( Jul 09 13:31:16 pff, firing it Jul 09 13:31:51 if I can kill the device by this, then maybe it shall be Jul 09 13:32:30 Heh Jul 09 13:32:40 You wont be able to reflash though .. Jul 09 13:32:54 eeeh, why? Jul 09 13:33:19 screwit Jul 09 13:33:26 alterego: why? Jul 09 13:33:29 not touching this crap anymore today Jul 09 13:33:43 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# cat /etc/aegis/enable Jul 09 13:33:45 cat: can't open '/etc/aegis/enable': No such file or directory Jul 09 13:33:46 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:/sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc# cat /etc/aegis/enforce Jul 09 13:33:48 cat: can't open '/etc/aegis/enforce': No such file or directory Jul 09 13:33:58 DocScrutinizer: after rebooting? Jul 09 13:34:02 nope Jul 09 13:34:05 they dont exist by default Jul 09 13:34:06 not touching this crap anymore today Jul 09 13:34:13 ok ;p Jul 09 13:34:56 first I want a clear word about how's supposed standard way to *isntall* sth on this brick Jul 09 13:35:21 I doubt that we will see a mobile phone that is as open out of the box as the N900 was for a long time Jul 09 13:35:28 considering there's no HAM or similar Jul 09 13:35:44 The carriers will continue to push hard against it Jul 09 13:35:50 because an open phone kills their business model Jul 09 13:36:15 not exactly their business model, rather the ringtone mafia's Jul 09 13:36:29 naah, ringtones arent the big thing Jul 09 13:36:37 these days its about stopping tethering Jul 09 13:36:45 or mobile hotspot Jul 09 13:36:47 haha Jul 09 13:36:54 or other upcharge services Jul 09 13:37:26 not here Jul 09 13:37:53 my provider doesn't offer anything cheaper than plain data volume Jul 09 13:38:02 tether as you like Jul 09 13:39:00 they even don't care in reality about VoIP and p2p Jul 09 13:39:50 hell, they even offer "OTA DSL" Jul 09 13:40:07 my provider doesnt care about my data use either Jul 09 13:40:12 with a proper switch and 4 * 100BT Jul 09 13:40:30 all the same price Jul 09 13:40:38 But carriers in North America DO care Jul 09 13:40:49 and no OEM can afford to ignore the US Jul 09 13:41:02 Nokia did for ages :-P Jul 09 13:41:14 jonwil: I'm using one that doesn't care. Unlimited everything for $40. Jul 09 13:41:33 which carrier would that be? Jul 09 13:41:34 the key being they're new competition and not one of the big ones that have been around for ever Jul 09 13:41:41 jonwil: wind mobile Jul 09 13:41:44 oh yeah Jul 09 13:42:06 Only problem is, Rogers and Bell are using dodgy legal tricks to try and force Wind out of the market Jul 09 13:42:10 frals: how's the "user" way to install "apps" on harmattan? Jul 09 13:42:12 in this country it's always been the lack of competition due to regulations which has killed price wars Jul 09 13:42:27 DocScrutinizer: i assume a "user" would go to ovi store Jul 09 13:42:36 frals: I gather until recebtly that's been OVI Jul 09 13:42:46 yeah :-/ Jul 09 13:42:51 jonwil: yep, lots of politics. Doesn't help that the guy in charge of regulation is a former bell (and rogers iirc) exec Jul 09 13:42:52 DocScrutinizer: but im far removed from how this is suppose to work so im just guessing really Jul 09 13:43:16 click on "Store" on your N950 ;-P Jul 09 13:43:37 Is your political system stuffed up like the US is or can you vote for someone who will actually DO SOMETHING about things like this? Jul 09 13:43:45 hell, this is SUCH a PITA Jul 09 13:43:54 Here in Australia we have a government that gives a stuff Jul 09 13:43:55 jonwil: hahaha, there's no where you can vote for someone who will do things. Jul 09 13:44:10 jonwil: the same government pushing for the censorship? :/ Jul 09 13:44:18 no, they seem to have dropped that Jul 09 13:44:23 due to the public outcry Jul 09 13:44:27 and are re-thinking the policy Jul 09 13:44:29 hahaha Jul 09 13:44:44 so, basically they only give a stuff when they're going to get caught out. Yeah, not great really, is it? Jul 09 13:45:12 no, what happened is that they supported the filter because they needed to keep a particular politician on side in order to pass bills Jul 09 13:45:26 but there has been an election since then Jul 09 13:45:32 and that guy isn't in power anymore Jul 09 13:45:38 so they dont need to suck up to him Jul 09 13:45:40 meh, politics. They screw everyone except the connected. Jul 09 13:45:41 interestingly, our govt actually gets complained about even more when they do things people want Jul 09 13:45:42 hence they can drop the filter Jul 09 13:46:00 but yeah not only is our government building a massive fiber-to-the-home network for most of the population (with wireless and sattelite for the rest) Jul 09 13:46:00 back in a few mins, need to reboot Jul 09 13:46:34 but they have actually passed bills forcing a breakup of the former monopoly telco Jul 09 13:46:41 to separate out the retail and wholesale arms Jul 09 13:46:57 following the bt model then Jul 09 13:46:58 with the wholesale arm to be swallowed up by the new fiber network Jul 09 13:47:02 that worked really well here. Jul 09 13:48:03 Its working better here Jul 09 13:48:10 because both the government and regulator care Jul 09 13:48:12 and have teeth Jul 09 13:49:55 plus, the government is paying $11 billion to Telstra (former monopoly) for access to the old infrastructure so it can build the new network and reuse it Jul 09 13:50:04 sigh, cheap SAN's are akward :< Jul 09 13:50:10 so it will pull the fiber through the ducts where the old copper came from Jul 09 14:04:07 Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the rx-51 file to make the N900's EuroSign key produce Escape instead? Jul 09 14:06:02 sure Jul 09 14:06:26 i think so Ken-Young, but don't quote me. check wiki... Remapping Keyboard Jul 09 14:06:46 do y know where can i find libncurses ? Jul 09 14:06:57 for fremantle Jul 09 14:07:06 it said it was removed ? Jul 09 14:07:07 repos? Jul 09 14:07:16 Sicelo, I've successfullchanged the British Pound key into a "|" key for piping.y modified that file before. I've Jul 09 14:07:19 http://maemo.org/packages/view/libncurses5-dev/ Jul 09 14:07:39 huh, there is no git available in the harmattan scratchbox? Jul 09 14:07:40 Sicelo, But I can't figure out how to make it produce the Escape character. Jul 09 14:08:37 gri i am working on it Jul 09 14:08:40 to built it Jul 09 14:09:07 should be ready soon or later Jul 09 14:09:19 Sicelo, Ooops - I meant: I've successfully modified that file before. I've changed the British Pound key into a "|" key, for piping. Jul 09 14:13:27 there's a tmo thread about reconfiguring the on screen keys on terminal ... might give u leads (i'm on the road atm) Jul 09 14:13:56 Sicelo, Thanks for the pointer. Jul 09 14:16:51 does anybody already have experience with building packages for Harmattan with OBS? Jul 09 14:17:11 cant find any usefull do to shpow how to pack my apps Jul 09 14:20:27 CaCO3: I'd look in the obs for other peoples projects (xfade) would be good :) Jul 09 14:34:10 btw: did anyone spot an FCC filing for the N9 yet? Jul 09 14:36:52 CaCO3: i am doing this for a couple of days Jul 09 14:37:53 http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/rzr/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard/armel/ Jul 09 14:39:26 RzR950: how did you start? did you write the spec file manually or is tere a tool for it Jul 09 14:39:36 DocScrutinizer: Install from .deb in Browser, apt-get install or wait for the apps.meego.com client from pycage Jul 09 14:40:07 DocScrutinizer: There's an FMC thread, "apps.meego.com in N9" which is relevant Jul 09 14:41:35 I tried "Install from .deb in Browser" -->"invalid pkg format" (OWTTE) Jul 09 14:42:02 tried dpkg -i the-downloaded-.deb... installed but doesn't run Jul 09 14:42:43 DocScrutinizer: What deb? Jul 09 14:42:48 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# bash Jul 09 14:42:50 -sh: bash: Operation not permitted Jul 09 14:43:02 http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb Jul 09 14:43:30 * Jaffa can't launch the link from MeeGo Terminal :-( Jul 09 14:45:02 can I help on that? Jul 09 14:46:04 Shouldn't you be able to apt-get install something from that repo? Jul 09 14:47:00 that repo isn't in repo list? dunno, apt-cacje search bash gives nuttin Jul 09 14:47:47 Indeed, just checked. Jul 09 14:49:23 and we definitely won't get it in Jul 09 14:49:38 just like *snip* Jul 09 14:50:01 aegis will terribly bark Jul 09 14:51:02 Booh my USB on my brand new N900 seems not to be working :( Jul 09 14:51:15 dmesg on desktop says unable to enumerate USB device on port 1 Jul 09 14:51:45 Just yesterday people warned me to take care of the USB port , looks like I f*ked it up :( Jul 09 14:51:55 meh Jul 09 14:52:03 ok, we have package developer-mode which depends on aegis-developer-unknown-source-policy Jul 09 14:52:08 Thats from n950 btw Jul 09 14:52:26 pavi_ : how did you break it? Jul 09 14:52:41 I often put a lot of stress onto it, but never had problem Jul 09 14:52:55 DocScrutinizer: are you *still* not giving up? :) Jul 09 14:53:02 DocScrutinizer: i think youve been living like 3 times now Jul 09 14:53:05 leaving* Jul 09 14:53:41 CaCO3: I just used the cable like 3 times , dunno if its broke or not Jul 09 14:53:46 I've survived three excessive headdesking sessions Jul 09 14:53:48 pavi_: check your cable.. try a different port Jul 09 14:53:50 I don't think its broken pavi_ Jul 09 14:54:16 pavi_: hold 'u' Jul 09 14:54:28 pavi_: chck for USB icon on N900 Jul 09 14:54:47 if flasher fails, ^C and redo command Jul 09 14:54:50 USB icon is not showing up .. dmesg on xterm in N900 shows no reaction Jul 09 14:55:38 pavi_: you need to really *power down* N900 (remove battery to be sure) Jul 09 14:55:51 pavi_: hold 'u' - plug in USB Jul 09 14:56:13 pavi_: of course with battery reinserted Jul 09 14:56:17 ok Jul 09 14:56:57 I applied some updates yesterday night Jul 09 14:58:28 Jaffa: aegis-developer-unknown-source-policy is the word Jul 09 14:59:42 pavi: Try another cable Jul 09 15:00:14 I plugged in the USB after turning N9000 off . There is a orange blinking light once I plug in USB . something is trying to come up Jul 09 15:00:32 meh, isn't it *always* the PC and drivers there that barf up Jul 09 15:00:51 you must hold 'U' key Jul 09 15:01:15 when there's a yellow blinking light you're WAAAY too late Jul 09 15:01:47 DocScrutinizer: 'U' key before booting up ? Jul 09 15:02:11 hold U key, then plug in USB - is it really that hard? Jul 09 15:02:16 RzR950: how did you know what to write into the spec file? Jul 09 15:02:54 remove and reinsert batery, hold and keep U, while plugging in USB Jul 09 15:03:45 ok Jul 09 15:03:56 oops sorry for the blank space and line Jul 09 15:03:57 CaCO3: as usual, RTFM Jul 09 15:05:39 pavi_: then check for USN icon on NOKIA screen, start flasher, if flasher doesn't work, ^C and start again. Do 5 times. If that fails, PLEASE read Jul 09 15:05:42 ~flash Jul 09 15:05:43 i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jul 09 15:07:04 pavi_: use linux for flasher, windows is knows to have all sorts of "issues" Jul 09 15:07:12 and poor support here :-) Jul 09 15:07:17 on every close button, this pixel error/disruption appears atm on my device In portrait mode too. A week or so ago I had a similiar issue. What could be causing this? http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/l3kaxb3q/Screenshot20110709165544.png Jul 09 15:07:32 DocScrutinizer: ofcourse linux . ask SpeedEvil :P Jul 09 15:08:51 If it helps , I am using N900 without a sim Jul 09 15:12:37 DocScrutinizer: I tried with U key its giving some console messages after the orange blinking light ,cant read the messages because the brightness is very low and sometimes like once every 20 seconds I get a loading three dots ... and it stops my desktop still shows . unable to emurate Jul 09 15:13:11 your battery is empty Jul 09 15:13:19 you got a bootloop Jul 09 15:13:45 with bootloop the device doesn't charge, so no way to charge battery, ergo no way to reflash Jul 09 15:13:51 Yes exactly a bootloop Jul 09 15:14:23 so do I charge my battery to full ? Jul 09 15:14:31 ~flatbat Jul 09 15:14:34 ~flatbatrecover Jul 09 15:14:35 Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover Jul 09 15:15:17 I removed USB just now and clicked on power swittch its booting nicely ! Jul 09 15:16:04 Battery is now at 25 % Jul 09 15:16:26 SpeedEvil: won't recover from bootloop Jul 09 15:16:33 SHall I switch off and do the above thing ? Jul 09 15:17:04 if it enters blinking orange state, let it sit and charge til green Jul 09 15:17:06 oops Jul 09 15:17:28 you mean in USB mode ? Jul 09 15:17:30 blank screen, no activity Jul 09 15:17:56 I mean when it starts blinking orange, don't touch until green Jul 09 15:18:01 I'm off now Jul 09 15:18:17 ok Jul 09 15:19:28 Thanks for the help .. I will be reading on flashing the device Jul 09 15:21:01 join #aion Jul 09 15:21:04 ... Jul 09 15:21:32 you want full battery for flashing Jul 09 15:23:12 ShadowJK: ok switched it off and kept it for charging Jul 09 15:25:51 Okay, I'm watching iplayer on N8 whilst working on exo :) Jul 09 15:37:00 RzR950: I wouldnt ask if I hadent studied existing packages and the manual Jul 09 15:37:27 RzR950: Would be great if you could help a bit. I now uplaoded a tar.gz and wrote a spec file (https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=shedskin&project=home%3ACaCO3) Jul 09 15:37:53 RzR950: The build fails with the error" nothing provides g++, nothing provides libpcre3-dev, nothing provides libgc-dev, nothing provides python-dev" Jul 09 15:38:22 RzR950: Are they all not (yet) available or whats wrong? Jul 09 15:40:32 moo Jul 09 15:40:52 javispedro: moooo Jul 09 15:41:34 CaCO3: can be that the repository is currently rebuilding or something is broken? Jul 09 15:41:54 javispedro: read chanlog! lots of fun with aegis Jul 09 15:41:57 :-D Jul 09 15:42:01 I dono, I work with OBS the first time :| Jul 09 15:42:57 U updated the spec file, but am wondering how to trigger a rebuild. According to the manual it should be done automaticaly, but cant see any feedback Jul 09 15:43:43 javispedro: there's obviously a mini-howto missing on "make arbitrary .deb work" Jul 09 15:43:59 I thought that would work oout of the box. Jul 09 15:45:10 javispedro: develmode on, allow_foreign-src on, dpkg -i http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb, Jul 09 15:45:12 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# bash Jul 09 15:45:13 -sh: bash: Operation not permitted Jul 09 15:46:02 what does syslog say? Jul 09 15:46:46 maybe the SDK has some magic that build a manifest for your homegrown binary. But the alien .deb (not so alien, see URL) installs but doesn't run Jul 09 15:46:54 nuttin basically Jul 09 15:46:57 not so alien if it comes frm nokia. Jul 09 15:47:24 it is signed et all Jul 09 15:47:50 well, a bit at least... Jul 09 15:48:06 http://paste.debian.net/122432/ Jul 09 15:48:13 I fail to see why a package with com.nokia signature would fail to run =) Jul 09 15:49:06 hum Jul 09 15:49:20 it has no credentials list Jul 09 15:50:00 no clue about that "repo" Jul 09 15:50:12 maybe it's not supposed to run on N950 Jul 09 15:50:22 t is evidently SDK Jul 09 15:50:26 I mean, it's harmatan-beta Jul 09 15:50:38 :shrug: Jul 09 15:50:54 DocScrutinizer: ahh i also noticed youre not allowed to dmesg Jul 09 15:51:05 maybe I need to do the install with sth different than dpkg Jul 09 15:52:31 maybe I need to run dpkg under aegis-acme-foo-execme to give it the proper env for installing manufest or WHATEVER! --sucks-- Jul 09 15:52:46 mhm that makes sense Jul 09 15:52:53 kind of like consolekit Jul 09 15:53:00 I think I see what's going on Jul 09 15:53:05 bash is trying to setgid Jul 09 15:53:06 gah... seems to be an area wide issue with internet Jul 09 15:53:07 atm running from my eeepc hooked to n900 configured as a router ;) Jul 09 15:53:25 but why would bash try to setgid? Jul 09 15:53:26 and no not using *hotspot Jul 09 15:53:56 ruskie: i got internet sharing working through bnep0 thats pretty sweet Jul 09 15:54:10 javispedro: why do you think it does? Jul 09 15:54:21 that's what credential 0::6 is. Jul 09 15:54:28 ouch Jul 09 15:54:37 and kudos for your expertise Jul 09 15:54:49 (AIUI !! IANA Aegis designer ;) ) Jul 09 15:55:04 jr@halley:~> ls -l `which bash` Jul 09 15:55:06 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 582728 24. Okt 2009 /bin/bash Jul 09 15:55:32 ok, I found a setgid call in bash source Jul 09 15:55:32 friggin old? Jul 09 15:55:53 bash 4.1 is friggin old aint it Jul 09 15:56:25 running_setuid && privileged_mode == 0 --> calls setgid Jul 09 15:56:28 but this makes no sense.. Jul 09 15:56:30 I was happy about bash 2 on maemo5 :-) Jul 09 15:56:44 I wonder if the calls are checked statically or sth. Jul 09 15:56:59 then eventually updated to bash3 and found some moron has optimized out the help cmd Jul 09 15:57:41 hehe Jul 09 15:58:14 not that you *could not* script that Jul 09 15:59:04 so whats the verdict on aegis so far Jul 09 15:59:07 yay or nay Jul 09 15:59:11 nay Jul 09 15:59:13 :) Jul 09 15:59:25 mega PITA Jul 09 15:59:26 its definitely sounding like symbians attempt at security Jul 09 15:59:28 macmaN: why you ask considering it as the moment disallowing Doc to run bash? Jul 09 15:59:40 pretty much killed the platform all on its own Jul 09 15:59:43 if we got to manipulate it to our liking, then maybe it stands a chance.. Jul 09 15:59:50 yeah of course Jul 09 15:59:58 indeed Jul 09 16:00:15 though aegis will *never* stand a chance here Jul 09 16:00:21 see the wiki part of Jul 09 16:00:24 ~aegis Jul 09 16:00:25 methinks aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 09 16:02:14 >>believing it will provide computer manufacturers and software authors with increased control to impose restrictions on what users are able to do with their computers. << YEAH Jul 09 16:02:17 evidently Jul 09 16:02:57 I'm root and this piece of xxxx refuses to start bash Jul 09 16:03:19 DocScrutinizer i really think you need to accept the fact that Developerz knows best whats good for you Jul 09 16:03:34 yes MASSA Jul 09 16:04:16 attaboy Jul 09 16:04:20 DocScrutinizer: seriously? Jul 09 16:04:30 the root bash thing? Jul 09 16:05:14 it'll surely be possible to boot CE on this thing anyway right Jul 09 16:05:38 >> The [...] most important benefit for Microsoft is that TC will dramatically increase the costs of switching away from Microsoft products (such as Office) to rival products (such as OpenOffice). For example, a law firm that wants to change from Office to OpenOffice right now merely has to install the software, train the staff and convert their existing files. In five years' time, once they have received TC-protected documents from perhaps Jul 09 16:05:40 a thousand different clients, they would have to get permission (in the form of signed digital certificates) from each of these clients in order to migrate their files to a new platform ...<< Jul 09 16:07:20 except, has that happened? Jul 09 16:07:29 not YET Jul 09 16:07:31 that was a doomsaying prediction from 2003. Jul 09 16:08:28 luckily until today whiners like me made "normal users" aware of the pending doom when going this TP path Jul 09 16:08:30 I think the biggest push for trusted-computing on PCs has been as a way for hardware-enforced protections on laptops and stuff Jul 09 16:08:57 e.g. laptops where the hard disks are protected and cant be accessed without the secret keys from the hardware module Jul 09 16:09:08 and without the passwords that unlock those keys Jul 09 16:09:26 intended as a way to make stolen laptops worthless Jul 09 16:09:40 any luck getting bash to run btw? Jul 09 16:09:56 alas they also make your HDD worthless when the laptop has a defect Jul 09 16:10:11 why is the deb available even in the repo if its essentially non-functioning Jul 09 16:10:15 bash? no Jul 09 16:10:29 perhaps theres something simple we just dont know after all? Jul 09 16:10:39 that's my guess Jul 09 16:10:57 [2011-07-09 17:39:27] javispedro: there's obviously a mini-howto missing on "make arbitrary .deb work" Jul 09 16:11:10 word Jul 09 16:11:20 so is the issue bash specifically or is it "any program"? Jul 09 16:11:54 it might be bash only for all I know Jul 09 16:12:06 I have tried an random bash.deb. No mood for going thru it with any other thing Jul 09 16:12:27 ok, let's pick sth else! Jul 09 16:12:42 suggestions please! Jul 09 16:12:47 did anyone of you try 3G tethering to the laptop through BT DUN yet? Jul 09 16:12:54 URL Jul 09 16:13:47 id try it if i had mobile coverage here :> Jul 09 16:14:00 gimme a URL Jul 09 16:14:17 I'm depressed enough so nothing will spoil my day ;-D Jul 09 16:14:26 www.chickswithdicks.com? Jul 09 16:14:35 * macmaN is confused Jul 09 16:14:41 DocScrutinizer: try running bash -p Jul 09 16:14:57 where are the .deb files there? ;-P only deboras Jul 09 16:15:14 ok Jul 09 16:15:18 that's easy Jul 09 16:15:27 but it'll probably fail.. Jul 09 16:15:41 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# bash -p Jul 09 16:15:42 -sh: bash: Operation not permitted Jul 09 16:15:50 syslog says same thing as before? Jul 09 16:16:16 yes Jul 09 16:18:26 btw I get the feeling this maemo-meego chimera is poisoning #maemo, tmo (who cares), and probably also FMC, and #meego(?) Jul 09 16:18:46 nowhere at home Jul 09 16:18:50 * javispedro ponders if there's a cmdlet to manipulate linux capabilities around Jul 09 16:18:55 we'd need own channels :-/ Jul 09 16:19:20 DocScrutinizer: been wondering the same thing, major internal conflicts around that :> Jul 09 16:19:52 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aegis aegis-constrain aegis-deb-util aegis-install-journal aegis-preinst-hook aegis-deb-add aegis-developer-mode aegis-loader aegis-session aegis-deb-info aegis-exec aegis-origin aegis-unload aegis-deb-release aegis-fixup aegis-postinst-hook aegisfs Jul 09 16:20:04 (tabtab) Jul 09 16:20:14 so, the issue AIUI is that aegis finds that CAP_SETGID is in ether the process effective or permitted linux capabilities set Jul 09 16:20:15 good thinking Jul 09 16:20:29 aegis-exec dpkg -i? Jul 09 16:20:36 but the bash package does not specify it requires CAP_SETGID. Jul 09 16:21:26 which would defeat any purpose of aegis-exec dpkg -i Jul 09 16:22:00 should I purge that package prior to trying reinstalling it? Jul 09 16:22:40 couldnt hurt Jul 09 16:23:08 (noob here, hints welcome) Jul 09 16:23:13 what does "aegis-exec -a CAP::setgid -a CAP::setuid bash" do? Jul 09 16:23:44 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aegis-exec -a CAP::setgid -a CAP::setuid bash Jul 09 16:23:46 bash: Operation not permitted Jul 09 16:23:52 and syslog? Jul 09 16:24:11 MUHAHAHA and a reboot Jul 09 16:24:19 :) Jul 09 16:24:26 a reboot? lol Jul 09 16:24:27 that *is* funny Jul 09 16:25:15 DocScrutinizer, fmc hasn't had as much activity in its whole life as its had the past few weeks. Jul 09 16:25:23 DEVICE IS MALFUNCTIONING! bla bla bla... >Security problem (aegis-exec): /bin/bash< Jul 09 16:25:54 DocScrutinizer: is your house insured? could be some mission impossible type self-destruct shit going on Jul 09 16:26:28 looks like, it suggests reflashing, and contacting service if that doesn't help Jul 09 16:26:47 is it bricked? Jul 09 16:26:51 or what? Jul 09 16:27:18 well, it needed 8s hard shutoff at least Jul 09 16:27:28 HAHAHA bricked Jul 09 16:27:42 :S Jul 09 16:27:53 lol whats it doing on reboot? Jul 09 16:28:02 DEVICE IS MALFUNCTIONING! bla bla bla... >Security problem (aegis-exec): /bin/bash< Jul 09 16:28:05 set up a live ustream or whatnot Jul 09 16:28:06 i hope you can stil reflash it Jul 09 16:28:20 *still Jul 09 16:28:43 * javispedro fails to understand what is going on... is that a UI messagebox? on syslog? on console with ugly letters on top of UI? Jul 09 16:29:16 so have you bricked your N950? Jul 09 16:29:23 If so, sucks to be you :P Jul 09 16:29:38 i dont think it can be known for sure yet Jul 09 16:30:04 wheres that exec coming from, did you add loading bash to init? Jul 09 16:30:23 My N950 got into bootloop last week and after battery died could not turn it on, flasher did the trick for me Jul 09 16:30:28 so try that Jul 09 16:31:05 also, your ovi account probably wont work on that device after that :p Jul 09 16:33:35 http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10170 Jul 09 16:34:04 DocScrutinizer: and no way to reboot out of it? Jul 09 16:34:16 aslani: my ovi account never worked Jul 09 16:34:21 javispedro: nope Jul 09 16:34:29 * javispedro sighs Jul 09 16:34:30 that's first and last thing Jul 09 16:34:31 heh, right Jul 09 16:35:04 time to screw the battery out? Jul 09 16:35:06 you set it to load bash on boot? Jul 09 16:35:10 take photos as well Jul 09 16:35:24 a little bit of Components trollin': http://achipa.blogspot.com/2011/07/qt-components-story-of-ugly-qwidgetling.html Jul 09 16:36:38 remind me not to buy/use a N9(50) if this aegis crap is still there Jul 09 16:38:00 http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25529&postcount=94 Jul 09 16:38:19 jonwil: same Jul 09 16:39:13 * javispedro now feels complete, he has bricked someone else's device ! =) Jul 09 16:40:17 hey, I'd have done the same if I'd have bothered to look what aegis-exec --help says Jul 09 16:41:01 harmattan flasher is http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php here Jul 09 16:41:09 but dunno about image to flash.. Jul 09 16:42:34 I'd say this rootfs needs a bit of love still, act_dead works Jul 09 16:42:43 http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/db230178-aa63-4c73-ba7f-20930da13cad/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers.html Jul 09 16:43:02 aslani: thank god. Jul 09 16:43:33 javispedro: I've done it once already (: Jul 09 16:45:00 oooh great, two flavours of .deb Jul 09 16:45:09 but no tarball Jul 09 16:46:25 so, while on the topic of bricking devices, another good test would be to write 0 to /sys/kernel/security/digsig/enable and /sys/kernel/security/digsig/enforce and /sys/kernel/security/validator/enable Jul 09 16:46:39 but if a plain aegis-exec bricked the device, disabling it would... Jul 09 16:47:37 end the universe. or something like that involving black clouds and thunderstorms. Jul 09 16:47:48 * javispedro is worried. Jul 09 16:49:12 * CaCO3 Note to myself: never type agais in a terminal Jul 09 16:49:20 DocScrutinizer: get the one from the link aslani provided ,seems to be shell archive Jul 09 16:49:32 it overloads the LHC and creates a black hole Jul 09 16:49:43 COOOOOL Jul 09 16:50:00 in a weird turn of events rm -rf / has similar effects Jul 09 16:50:13 except that is somewhat more known to cause trouble Jul 09 16:50:57 javispedro: already had it, but I'm feeling like going out for a walk now Jul 09 16:51:47 * javispedro ponders: if even with aegis in fullenforce mode root can brick the device, what's the point of not allowing root the rest of capabilities? Jul 09 16:52:25 DocScrutinizer: ah well, for the better and sorry for the nuisance :) Jul 09 16:52:59 javispedro: meh, your help always been and still is appreciated. Not your fault Jul 09 16:53:32 (if aegis decided to selfdestruct that means I was on the good track =) ) Jul 09 16:53:49 indeed :-D Jul 09 16:56:49 lovely: >>4) When you connect the cable, the device switches on automatically and the magical flashing sequence starts.<< Jul 09 16:57:53 * javispedro ponders which component prints that security msg thing Jul 09 16:58:16 for now the magical "Extracting files ..." seems to take a while and probably won't have any other effect than bricking my PC as well, due to filling up the rare space on rootfs Jul 09 16:59:20 http://paste.debian.net/122435/ Jul 09 16:59:24 \o/ Jul 09 17:00:22 * javispedro now patiently waits for the device to end flash, reboot and go back into the same screen because the _ILLEGAL security violation_ has been recorded in permanent ROM Jul 09 17:01:14 so, tell us how it when ASAP :S Jul 09 17:01:36 * DocScrutinizer away a while... Jul 09 17:02:26 it took me about 30-40 minutes Jul 09 17:02:42 :nod: Jul 09 17:02:46 bbl Jul 09 17:06:37 seems that aegis is ased on this: http://disec.sourceforge.net/ Jul 09 17:19:07 http://paste.debian.net/122437/ Jul 09 17:19:11 o/ Jul 09 17:19:26 boots "verify your settings" Jul 09 17:21:26 ok, what else could we do tobrickit? Jul 09 17:22:11 so, while on the topic of bricking devices, another good test would be to write 0 to /sys/kernel/security/digsig/enable and /sys/kernel/security/digsig/enforce and /sys/kernel/security/validator/enable ;) Jul 09 17:22:28 but I wouldn't reflash it more than once a day ;) Jul 09 17:22:32 too late, powered it down, off for dinner Jul 09 17:22:40 heh, good to know it worked though. Jul 09 17:23:06 indeed Jul 09 17:23:27 and good to know you found the first capital bug in aegis Jul 09 17:24:22 thank you aegis for protecting me from that rogue bash pkg, which potentially might have messed up all my valuable data Jul 09 18:23:32 looks like you guys did good here while i was having dinner Jul 09 18:36:12 Yay, got Qt app running on Symbian (N8) :D Jul 09 18:38:46 alterego, ditto Jul 09 18:41:11 got a N950 killed and resur... err reflahed Jul 09 18:41:55 what did you do to the poor thing? :) Jul 09 18:43:10 He was trying to disable aegis I imagine ;) Jul 09 18:45:28 on soviet harmattan aegis deactivates you Jul 09 18:46:28 * alterego wanders off Jul 09 18:48:19 alterego: I suggest you read the logs, it's been fun =) Jul 09 18:50:53 hello all Jul 09 18:50:59 I'm trying to figure out where localizations are kept. Jul 09 18:51:58 Here's what I've done: I've made it so that the SIP IM package also draws from the "TEL" string by adding that to the SIP profile in /usr/share/osso-rtcom/ . However, it now shows up in my contacts are as "addr_bd_content_starter" instead of "SIP IM". Jul 09 18:52:04 I'm guessing there's a file somewhere that holds all these strings Jul 09 19:20:35 search for a huuuuge (~20+ MB) file somewhere next to /usr/share/locale Jul 09 19:23:07 this addr_bd_content_starter (commonly known as tanna_fi_foobar) is a special "hack" of Nokia to make their translators happy - a thing you usually find better methods for Jul 09 19:24:56 All sorts of people adding me to Google+ who I don't recognize at all. Jul 09 19:25:01 Wish they had nicknames on there. Jul 09 19:25:07 the consequence is that with LANG=C all genuine Nokia apps have these fubar strings instead of a normal english Jul 09 19:25:24 GeneralAntilles: haha Jul 09 19:25:46 GeneralAntilles: frck all these centralized data silos, lockerproject or some other decentralized comm system is the only one i will be connecting to next Jul 09 19:26:49 heh itll be pretty funny whatll happen if a good enough FOSS decentralized p2p thing comes up. facebook better start paying me to get access and provide ads etc Jul 09 19:26:55 macmaN: lockerproject? Jul 09 19:27:06 google it Jul 09 19:27:45 theyre all pretty young still. i think that ruby thing is the best known. diaspora or whatnot. Jul 09 19:28:26 skype for facebook nerds? Jul 09 19:28:54 i guess, just leave evil binary blobs out of the equation Jul 09 19:29:02 how many ways are there to do p2p? Jul 09 19:29:17 prolly 1.3 Jul 09 19:29:48 macmaN, yeah, it's nasty. Jul 09 19:30:11 hi all. Have you seen the comparsion of n950 and other phones, including N900? Really nice photos! http://hi-tech.mail.ru/photo/review/Nokia_N9-prev.html?62 Jul 09 19:30:12 * DocScrutinizer glares at this aegis coffin Jul 09 19:30:27 :) Jul 09 19:30:43 DocScrutinizer: how old r u Jul 09 19:30:57 too old for that kinda fun Jul 09 19:31:02 hehe Jul 09 19:31:12 just wondering why havent you picked up a glass of wine yet Jul 09 19:31:26 how'd you know I didn't Jul 09 19:31:30 and told the coffin to frck off Jul 09 19:31:53 hmm true i dont know that Jul 09 19:31:55 just ponders something like that, for ~4s Jul 09 19:33:05 then I'd consider it extremely embarrassing to capitulate on a TC platform Jul 09 19:33:22 hehe Jul 09 19:33:29 true dat Jul 09 19:33:42 i like the warrior spirit Jul 09 19:34:09 it's what made h-e-n a reality Jul 09 19:35:11 well, then OTOH I was absolutely sure I could do hostmode. Most of the time, except some extraordinary dark days Jul 09 19:35:56 I'm quite sure though you can't win fighting a properly implemented chain-of-trust architecture Jul 09 19:36:17 or it's not worth the time Jul 09 19:36:23 i wonder if it was more open and elop forced to close it... Jul 09 19:36:34 i doubt that one Jul 09 19:36:43 i dont think elop has a clue whats inside this n950 Jul 09 19:36:54 you just can prod and pester the minister of keys to hand out enough to make your life bearable Jul 09 19:37:05 no i mean n950 generally not this one particularly Jul 09 19:37:38 nox-: I bet it was more closed in the very beginning Jul 09 19:37:46 mh Jul 09 19:38:04 and trollop doesn't even understand what's harmattan Jul 09 19:38:16 one reason i got the n900 was i wouldnt need to `jailbreak' it... Jul 09 19:38:29 that may be true tho Jul 09 19:40:23 DocScrutinizer, how nasty is it? Jul 09 19:40:35 he cant even run bash yet... Jul 09 19:40:44 Eh, meh. Jul 09 19:41:01 GeneralAntilles: this photo is worth a thousand words... http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10170 Jul 09 19:41:10 me on terrace of my building wondering why gps doesnt work Jul 09 19:41:30 I bet we are going to see that warning icon a lot of times.. Jul 09 19:41:40 Ugh Jul 09 19:41:45 pavin: i cant sign into nokia accounts thats why mine doesnt work Jul 09 19:41:53 Well, I kinda get it though Jul 09 19:41:55 GeneralAntilles: they mean what they write Jul 09 19:42:07 luckily flashing went smooth Jul 09 19:42:11 What if somebody downloads a deb that replaces the shell with some nasty shit that forwards everything to troll.ru? Jul 09 19:42:45 That's not an unreasonable sort of job for a security framework to prevent. Jul 09 19:42:57 yeah, better nuke my data than forward it to troll.ru Jul 09 19:42:59 I guess it ultimately comes down to how you get around it when you know what you're doing. Jul 09 19:43:12 true Jul 09 19:43:21 yes. Jul 09 19:43:32 but so far our attempts in that have result in Doc having to reflash his n950 =) Jul 09 19:43:42 I'm not going to try to claim Nokia had the user's best interests as the primary thing in their heart when they wrote the requirements. Jul 09 19:43:52 But, well, there ARE shades of gray here. Jul 09 19:44:08 a few Jul 09 19:44:26 like found in every sack of charcoal Jul 09 19:44:38 I guess the other question here is: What would be a reasonable recovery mode? Jul 09 19:44:42 Short of nuking the device. Jul 09 19:44:50 macmaN disabling nokia network will help get gps ?? Jul 09 19:44:51 none Jul 09 19:45:17 "disabling nokia network" how is that an understandable sentence? Jul 09 19:45:18 DocScrutinizer, on the implementation side for Nokia. Jul 09 19:45:48 Couldn't they keep a clean image available for the system stuff? Jul 09 19:45:52 Recovery mode boot. Jul 09 19:46:29 .oO(nuking the device can also happen by using ms exchange...) Jul 09 19:46:33 effectively javispedro made aegis bend over, and a reboot with locking the device was last resort. Though it's a ridiculous effort, given I was even able to c&p and enter another CR before the reboot took place. Aeons for any malware to intercept whatever they like Jul 09 19:47:08 this makes me thing though that it wasn't what we did that caused the reboot Jul 09 19:47:19 * DocScrutinizer sometimes feels an urge to "disable nokia network" ;-P Jul 09 19:47:34 Keep in mind this is the w22 image, too. Jul 09 19:47:44 who is the current Debmaster? The Extras Assistant seems to be broken Jul 09 19:47:47 Given there were "over 3000 bugs fixed" Jul 09 19:47:50 I mean in location settings there is an option to disable network possitioning Jul 09 19:47:53 come to think of it Jul 09 19:47:54 CaCO3, X-Fade question. Jul 09 19:47:58 yeah i for one cant wait for a fresher image Jul 09 19:48:04 CaCO3, pinging Bugzilla may be useful. Jul 09 19:48:20 GeneralAntilles: actually a funny question Jul 09 19:48:21 generic kernel panic -> /bin/bash corrupted cause it was on cache -> panic on reboot when aegis checks digsig Jul 09 19:48:57 agps needs some kind of help to quick start Jul 09 19:49:08 pavin: no you cant disable this sign in thing Jul 09 19:49:33 javispedro: quite possible Jul 09 19:50:46 ohh isnt there an alternate service ? Jul 09 19:50:58 GeneralAntilles: thx Jul 09 19:51:01 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders what they did with shell escape in less Jul 09 19:51:24 this osc stuff is stupid Jul 09 19:51:35 ? Jul 09 19:51:44 I had to dig in src code to decipher "this is not a project working copy" error message. Jul 09 19:52:05 some commands work inside what he calls "project" working copies, and others in what he calls "package" working copies Jul 09 19:52:47 (project = osc co home:$USER) (package = osc co home:$USER $PACKAGE) Jul 09 20:01:04 "he"? Jul 09 20:02:02 okkkkkkkkkk Jul 09 20:02:12 s/he/it/g Jul 09 20:03:36 the first step one always has to do when starting a long battle is to anthropomorphize his enemy. =) Jul 09 20:05:00 javispedro, "they"? Jul 09 20:06:29 dunno there. Jul 09 20:07:21 Yes, the pronoun you're looking for is "they". :P Jul 09 20:07:46 I was thinking on the osc program itself though Jul 09 20:09:33 Ah, right. Jul 09 20:09:38 Well, it. Jul 09 20:17:22 wtf osc Jul 09 20:17:41 on screen chaos? Jul 09 20:18:36 the opensuse build service command client Jul 09 20:18:41 *command line Jul 09 20:18:53 oooohnoes, I guess it's along opensuse builder Jul 09 20:19:01 aaah Jul 09 20:19:03 yep Jul 09 20:31:33 "The build root needs packages from project 'Maemo.org:MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan'. Jul 09 20:31:33 Note that malicious packages blablabla..." Jul 09 20:42:49 n950 screenshots, anybody a clue? Jul 09 20:43:36 DocScrutinizer: do you have widgetsgallery installed? Jul 09 20:43:41 ctr-shift-P? Jul 09 20:44:00 scren is funny flashing on ctrl-shift-P Jul 09 20:44:29 must be it -brilliant intuitive effect Jul 09 20:44:49 flashlight alike fade-to-white and back Jul 09 20:45:15 frals: dunno Jul 09 20:45:30 what'S that? aaah this abomination... yes Jul 09 20:45:38 3 of them Jul 09 20:45:39 it has a tool for screenshots at least Jul 09 20:45:53 but if ctrl shift p works thats good ;) Jul 09 20:46:24 QMLcomp... QMLcomp... widgets Ga... Jul 09 20:46:42 NFC what's Boosted WG Jul 09 20:47:21 actually I need screenshot to document the abysmal butt ugly datepicker of QML Jul 09 20:48:06 QML has a date picker? Jul 09 20:48:34 I bet screenshots fail in QMLcomp...app - no flashlight effect Jul 09 20:48:49 MohammadAG: slotmachine :-( Jul 09 20:49:15 DocScrutinizer, I don't think QML has standard anything Jul 09 20:49:38 MEH!!! in gallery is only the applauncher icon zoo screen Jul 09 20:49:48 DocScrutinizer: use widgetsgallery -> debug tools -> screen shot or smth like that Jul 09 20:51:13 what's widgetsgallery? has it a different pretty name? Jul 09 20:51:24 "widgets Ga..." Jul 09 20:52:24 boosted WG Jul 09 20:52:37 aaah widgets ga... Jul 09 20:52:51 same icon like boosted wg Jul 09 20:54:16 thanks frals Jul 09 20:54:27 np Jul 09 21:01:12 is there any os except nitdroid and meego which can be installed on n900? Jul 09 21:02:30 SHR Jul 09 21:04:50 DocScrutinizer, thanks, i'll look at it Jul 09 21:05:13 /join #openmoko-cdevel Jul 09 21:05:17 see /topic Jul 09 21:05:38 Damn errant pings. Jul 09 21:05:50 eh? Jul 09 21:05:55 frals, can you go mess up the people in the DDP shipping office, please? Jul 09 21:06:03 DocScrutinizer, "Widgets _GA_" Jul 09 21:06:04 lol Jul 09 21:06:13 MUHAHA Jul 09 21:06:40 GeneralAntilles: dunno whos doing that, sorry ;) Jul 09 21:06:47 I can still order a second n950 Jul 09 21:06:52 I bet this drives you ga-ga Jul 09 21:06:57 frals, liar. Jul 09 21:07:00 It's YOU isn't it?! Jul 09 21:08:21 ARRRGH wlan settings flashed dead Jul 09 21:12:46 ARRGH pubkey nuked Jul 09 21:14:12 you are a fucking coward doc Jul 09 21:14:42 Angs Jul 09 21:14:46 Angst Jul 09 21:14:51 Mama mama Jul 09 21:15:07 You are a little worm Jul 09 21:15:42 So shut the fuck up or i will make you Jul 09 21:17:28 That's cool. Jul 09 21:21:53 I've tested three different screencast methods (vnc, x11grab/ffmpeg and tv-tuner). The tv-tuner is obviously best, here is video example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meTeTCSuCcc (or http://vimeo.com/26208659). It was recorded using vlc and AverMedia TV tuner. Jul 09 21:22:38 Is there any wiki page on n900 screencasting? Jul 09 21:26:38 http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10174?sort=4 date/timepickers Jul 09 21:27:07 obsolete but nice vs modern unusable butt-ugly Jul 09 21:27:59 what a stupid brain donator is that? Jul 09 21:28:48 btw, my n950 is already at the dhl airport warehouse Jul 09 21:29:04 * javispedro was considering going there and pestering whoever was there, but sadly I have some work. Jul 09 21:33:40 profputz == pupnick on gasoline? Jul 09 21:34:23 hey Jul 09 21:34:36 he wasn't that bad :) Jul 09 21:35:05 no but similar when in his worst mood -IP resolves to Frankfurt Jul 09 21:35:37 I know pupnik lives in Frankfurt Jul 09 21:38:40 esp the diction - though german now . is amazing similar, from "sentence" to "sentence" Jul 09 21:39:24 next time I will throw a pupnik bait ;-) Jul 09 21:41:41 Stay away from the dark liquor kids. Jul 09 21:41:50 LOL Jul 09 21:42:07 esp when it smells a bit like gasoline Jul 09 21:45:37 now that's been a day... one selfkick one kick one kickban one kline-revert one brick&flash Jul 09 21:46:02 plus a lot of "fun" Jul 09 21:48:15 javispedro: (already in warehouse) I offer you to test another few nifty ways to brick mine - til when it's monday in your TZ :) Jul 09 21:49:04 * DocScrutinizer just did a ssh-copy-id ;-D Jul 09 21:50:10 is it safe to uninstall U-boot? will maemo boot then correctly? Jul 09 21:50:30 i've installed U-boot because of meego Jul 09 21:51:09 you can't install uBoot - you'll always install a kernel with integrated uBoot Jul 09 21:51:43 ok, i've installed U-boot PR1.3 package from repo Jul 09 21:52:05 and it's striongly deprecated to uninstall kernels (and on this behalf, uBoot) - you need to *install* a kernel without uBoot Jul 09 21:52:51 analog to "unisntalling" powerkernel being a really stupid idea Jul 09 21:53:00 what happens if i install now nitdroid? Jul 09 21:53:07 with it's "autoinstaller" Jul 09 21:53:36 will it overwrite "u-booted kernel"? Jul 09 21:54:18 nitdroid uses multiboot which is a completely different conflicting dirty hack Jul 09 21:54:47 i.e. i should first install normal kernel, and only then nitdroid? Jul 09 21:54:50 and yes, it probably will overwrite uBoot(-kernel) as it flashes a "new" kernel on every boot Jul 09 21:55:24 oh Jul 09 21:55:44 uBoot and multiboot don't play together OOTB. But please check this on a multiboot or android thread, in tmo Jul 09 21:55:55 i hate meego, it's completely useless Jul 09 21:56:13 think nitdroid too Jul 09 21:58:37 you'll talk different when something (e.g multiboot/nitdroid) has messed up your rootfs so you can't boot maemo anymore, but for a lucky incidance the kernel incl uBoot is intact and allows boot of meego, so you can fix maemo rootfs from "outside" Jul 09 21:59:14 alas multiboot has the annoying habit to ruin kernels as well, not only rootfs Jul 09 22:00:05 still you may be able to boot a working meego on a MMC card, via flasher ramload Jul 09 22:00:40 but that's of limited use then, as the mess multiboot creates is fubar Jul 09 22:00:48 ergo -> reflash anyway Jul 09 22:04:53 when X-Fade mentioned that building on OBS currently causes tons of warnings, which warnings was he talking about? Want to bet? =) Jul 09 22:04:53 umm, where's some backup app on that thing? Jul 09 22:05:52 no bets? Jul 09 22:06:16 well, of course, the warning that is repeated a bazillion times is "No AEGIS_HASH_FDS environment" Jul 09 22:06:19 all hail aegis! Jul 09 22:06:31 it's been over 9 months since I had a bootloop Jul 09 22:06:40 but thanks to kernel-power v48, I can feel like a noob again Jul 09 22:07:55 where's that PR1.3 omap1 binary again Jul 09 22:07:56 MohammadAG: o.O Jul 09 22:07:58 wtf Jul 09 22:08:50 DocScrutinizer: what's your overall impression right now? Jul 09 22:08:54 (both on hw and sw) Jul 09 22:09:15 Aegis rocks, obviously Jul 09 22:10:06 c-ts is a royal PITA that often refuses to work for no clear reason (found operating the device without "electrical closed loop" via other hand usually fails) Jul 09 22:10:40 uh. Jul 09 22:10:43 the GUI is amazingly well designed and consistent Jul 09 22:10:57 CPU et all fast like hell Jul 09 22:11:09 DocScrutinizer, "notes" app, try writint "test" 10 times, no correcting self allowed. How any successful? Jul 09 22:11:11 TP module works well Jul 09 22:11:21 aegis is a complete showstopper Jul 09 22:11:33 as expected Jul 09 22:11:41 figured out open mode yet? Jul 09 22:11:45 tried the new flasher? Jul 09 22:12:04 might mitigate when some guru bothers to write a mini-howto Jul 09 22:12:11 I bet that the way to enter open mode is to just build a new kernel without aegis ;) Jul 09 22:12:15 MohammadAG: ??? Jul 09 22:12:33 flasher-3.6 I think Jul 09 22:12:52 MohammadAG: the device of course *is* in developer mode, aka "as open as it gets" Jul 09 22:13:03 no Jul 09 22:13:12 Closed -> Developer -> Open Jul 09 22:13:15 ^ Jul 09 22:13:17 with open being the most open Jul 09 22:13:21 used one-click-flasher as I didn't feel like extracting the image from that blob Jul 09 22:13:30 DocScrutinizer: Thank you for your help. Searching now Jul 09 22:13:44 DocScrutinizer, flasher has a shitload of new options Jul 09 22:13:51 meh Jul 09 22:14:06 purging aegis from the kernel seems trivial =) Jul 09 22:14:09 so it's show-stopped in developer mode too? Jul 09 22:14:20 I obviously don't need a single one of them, also didn't find any tarball of any flasher, just .deb Jul 09 22:14:32 yep, ShadowJK - definitely Jul 09 22:14:45 DocScrutinizer, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23200&postcount=181 Jul 09 22:14:46 ShadowJK: read chanlog of this day, for lulz Jul 09 22:14:55 Devmode is just for root, etc. Jul 09 22:14:59 Not for disabling aegis. Jul 09 22:15:01 That's open mode Jul 09 22:15:04 No idea how to enable it, though. Jul 09 22:15:08 developer mode is just a metapackage Jul 09 22:16:01 obs is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooow Jul 09 22:16:08 being under qemu sure takes its hit Jul 09 22:16:16 frals suggested a echo 0>foo; echo 0>bar; reboot Jul 09 22:16:22 oh Jul 09 22:16:36 and meant "but that for sure will brick *your* devices" Jul 09 22:16:57 DocScrutinizer: so the assertion that running an untrusted binary would automagically switch to open mode was just plain wrong Jul 09 22:17:06 foo and bar are obviously outside sysfs though right? Jul 09 22:17:28 MohammadAG: yes, they where in /etc Jul 09 22:17:39 securityfs has some enforce and enable tunables Jul 09 22:17:51 Corsac: running it will implicitly mean switching to tainted mode. the point is you can't run it that simply Jul 09 22:17:58 but from reading the source they're probably locked. Jul 09 22:18:16 open mode should get you into a bootable state DocScrutinizer Jul 09 22:18:27 uhuh Jul 09 22:18:32 I'm leaving on Monday btw Jul 09 22:18:43 so will probably get my N950 after all of you Jul 09 22:18:43 my device *is* in a bootable state right now Jul 09 22:18:47 * ShadowJK was browsing internet boutiques for android+qwerty today. htc desire z, and a samsung something. Unfortunately specs dont say if bootloader is locked or not :/ Jul 09 22:18:47 bon voyage MohammadAG . Jul 09 22:18:52 but it's not open DocScrutinizer Jul 09 22:19:01 tell that aegis Jul 09 22:19:07 merci javispedro Jul 09 22:19:13 honestly, it's been too much today Jul 09 22:19:38 omg omh Jul 09 22:19:41 my first OBS build! Jul 09 22:19:44 and you're free to suggest another funny method to brick that aegis coffin Jul 09 22:19:58 dpkg -r aegis* Jul 09 22:20:01 ShadowJK, most are. Jul 09 22:20:13 :( Jul 09 22:20:15 DocScrutinizer: but what exactly aegis prevents you to do? Jul 09 22:20:18 ShadowJK, samsung galaxy SII isn't Jul 09 22:20:24 http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25529&postcount=94 Jul 09 22:20:28 read canlog Jul 09 22:20:30 MohammadAG, is that qwerty Jul 09 22:20:30 actually, I think all sammy phones are unlocked Jul 09 22:20:34 ShadowJK, no Jul 09 22:20:42 disqualified :) Jul 09 22:20:48 HTC started unlocking their phones Jul 09 22:20:50 droid 3's the qwerty im currently liking the most tbh Jul 09 22:20:58 need hwkeyboard Jul 09 22:21:10 * ShadowJK can't gewt droid 3 Jul 09 22:21:12 Corsac: ok one last time, I installed a NOKIA(!) bash.deb, and it wasn't startable Jul 09 22:21:18 droid2 is available though Jul 09 22:21:28 Locked bootloader. Jul 09 22:21:35 bah Jul 09 22:21:42 Besides, it's Android. :< Jul 09 22:21:43 Motorola are a no no Jul 09 22:21:48 So there's like no phones at all anymore Jul 09 22:21:48 droid3 is quite probably going to get it's bootloader unlocked Jul 09 22:21:51 Motorolas* Jul 09 22:22:06 ShadowJK, that's why I'm getting the N9 Jul 09 22:22:19 nid0: there's many ways to kill the cat Jul 09 22:22:21 hardware keyboards are probably gone for good Jul 09 22:22:21 But I can't type stuff on n9 Jul 09 22:22:40 unlocked BL is fine when you want to run an ALL NEW OS Jul 09 22:22:42 MohammadAG: give it five years and they will make a comeback. Jul 09 22:22:59 javispedro, only when the iPhone 9 has it Jul 09 22:23:00 MohammadAG; you getting an n9 too? first n950 and now one more... darn Jul 09 22:23:18 Trizt, probably out of my own money Jul 09 22:23:19 nid0: as the old OS may refuse to work when you change just one byte in kernel, a lib, a file in /etc, whatever Jul 09 22:23:20 tbh, moto still at least get the keyboard thing Jul 09 22:23:37 droid 3's first slider i've ever seen with the right number of keyboard rows Jul 09 22:23:38 nid0: even with an "unlocked" bootloader like the one on N950 Jul 09 22:24:06 DocScrutinizer: fact remains though ShadowJK wants an unlocked bootloader, and moto will be unlocking theirs as of the autumn :) Jul 09 22:25:36 sure Jul 09 22:25:38 fine Jul 09 22:25:57 MohammadAG; okey. You got the n950 yet or you have to wait for it? Did myself think of the n9, but at the moment it will be out of my budget Jul 09 22:26:05 then you finally can install another android build than that shipped by moto Jul 09 22:26:25 cyanogen or whatever the name Jul 09 22:26:33 I got it in the sense that I was accepted Jul 09 22:26:41 and if that distro works then OK Jul 09 22:26:56 well, I think tbh a lot of people crying for unlocked bootloaders want an updated do-anything platform like the hd2 Jul 09 22:27:09 when meegoCE finally works on N950 then I'm happy - unless it also comes with aegis Jul 09 22:27:42 (which will never really fly as Nokia won't sign the community builds of kernel every day) Jul 09 22:28:55 even if they one day solve the problem of typing on touchscreens, there'll still be the issue of smaller screenspace :/ Jul 09 22:28:58 fact is that for now harmattan is the most locked down maemo ever, no matter how much of the source may be open Jul 09 22:29:31 DocScrutinizer: aegis doesn't need nokia, and in fact, it was proposed as the meego security framework Jul 09 22:30:28 (I now realize that's what mssf probably means =) ) Jul 09 22:31:00 then Nokia has to roll out a bit in bootprocess that breaks the chain of trust, by verifying signature of a publicly known private-key Jul 09 22:31:14 the question still remains open Jul 09 22:31:21 what will open mode of aegis prevent. Jul 09 22:32:02 let's say ovimaps depended on aegis being armed and boot process "trusted" -- then it would need nokia's pkey Jul 09 22:32:33 sure Jul 09 22:33:05 but I can see that aegis would be useful for someone even without that signature. Jul 09 22:33:18 but that's unrelated to meegoCE which by design is "open mode" as there's no trust in a self-signed kernel whatsoever Jul 09 22:33:33 DocScrutinizer, publicly known private-key? Surelty each vendor deploying meego would have their own secret public key, isolating themselves from other meegos Jul 09 22:34:29 ShadowJK: exactly, and that key is signed with Nokia's masterkey, which has its pubkey in OMAP hw Jul 09 22:34:37 why Jul 09 22:35:04 I mean, if the vendor does not want to run nokia code like ovimaps, why does it need nokia signature? Jul 09 22:35:12 DocScrutinizer, wouldn't other vendors have their own master keys burned into the omaps in their devices Jul 09 22:35:40 if the chain of trust gets corrupted or broken, you can't re-establish it on a higher lever Jul 09 22:35:54 ShadowJK: sure Jul 09 22:36:09 if they are OEMs Jul 09 22:36:54 javispedro: the master key in OMAP is owned by Nokia, on Nokia phones Jul 09 22:37:04 yes, I see now that you're thiking meegoCE on N950. Jul 09 22:37:25 but even then Jul 09 22:37:30 MeegoCE is probably not going to depoly aegis? Jul 09 22:37:32 when you use any sw not signed with a chain of trus up to this rootkey in OMAP, the device *is* in open mode Jul 09 22:37:56 tbh I do not know exactly what plan they have in mind with regards to mssf in meego. Jul 09 22:38:28 ShadowJK: aegis is known as mssf there, but still not included in any version that I know of. Jul 09 22:38:48 I deprecate the "open" mode term, actually it's tainted mode Jul 09 22:38:58 DocScrutinizer: you are completely right in that regard. Jul 09 22:39:16 ShadowJK: for example, they have already started work on aegis-enabled rpm =) Jul 09 22:39:32 need to make a few killer apps that absolutely require "open mode" ;-) Jul 09 22:39:37 lol wtf Jul 09 22:42:20 btw Jul 09 22:42:21 http://conference2010.meego.com/session/mobile-simplified-security-framework-overview Jul 09 22:42:28 mandated reading material for all of you ;) Jul 09 22:43:11 "to prevent a user from accidentally breaking the device" sounds like they dun goofed on that one Jul 09 22:43:33 outch Jul 09 22:43:41 way too lax mask Jul 09 22:43:47 dosn't say much there? Jul 09 22:43:55 there's slides =) Jul 09 22:44:30 DocScrutinizer: either way, are you going to ban someone for saying "lol wtf" ? =) Jul 09 22:44:55 where are slides? Jul 09 22:45:03 ShadowJK: left pane Jul 09 22:45:10 htough there are more of an overview Jul 09 22:45:13 *they are Jul 09 22:46:00 javispedro: same IP Jul 09 22:46:12 ah well. Jul 09 22:47:35 still doesn't answer "how do I get full access to my own phone?" :-) Jul 09 22:50:47 I've been telling one possible answer: build a kernel without Aegis. Jul 09 22:51:15 it's just a security module, so you can #ifdef it out (via .config) Jul 09 22:51:42 of course, what will userspace do is still unknown to me. Jul 09 22:52:15 ShadowJK: or make Nokia deploy a manifest or what they call those aegis rules, that allows all for root Jul 09 22:54:12 I admit I don't understand enough to make a clear statement if that's possible at all, though Jul 09 22:55:41 as you may have several different apps/processes running, and each of those has its own particular special security needs. So you can't probably allow root to run strace against *all* processes no matter what Jul 09 22:56:58 when there's a process that says "I don't want to get straced or get attached to gdb" then this will always override any general permission for root that Nokia may deploy Jul 09 22:57:19 people complain about resistive-ts sensitivity? A cable just slightly moved over the N900 screen and it destroyed my desktop's widget positions. Jul 09 22:57:24 otherwise MSSF/aegis/TC was useless by design Jul 09 22:57:40 javispedro: jup Jul 09 22:58:09 DocScrutinizer: you are still thinking all Aegis is for is DRM, and we have not even yet seen one application that actually requires DRM. Jul 09 22:58:16 keep the optimism :) Jul 09 22:58:21 donno what peole think. I found N950 c-ts way less "sensitive" than N900 r-ts Jul 09 22:58:52 javispedro: eh? Jul 09 22:58:58 I have better accuracy typing on N800 (yes, N800) r-ts /stylus/ vkbd with my thumbs than on my friend's capacitive android :-) Jul 09 22:59:37 DocScrutinizer: even if root is allowed to shit crap in the system, aegis keeps its "other" purpose of preventing untrusted apps from making international calls. Jul 09 22:59:39 javispedro: I always stated clearly TC is about keeping total control over the devices you sell Jul 09 23:00:08 DocScrutinizer: so, for all I know, this aegis-su or dev mode or some other bullshit could enable a proper, clean root with all capabilities and so. Just that I do not know yet. Jul 09 23:00:13 and the silence from Nokia doesn't help. Jul 09 23:00:20 maybe it is because we haven't asked THE QUESTION yet. Jul 09 23:00:46 yes Jul 09 23:01:37 but generally TC is about granting minimum rights and control to $user Jul 09 23:01:39 it's easy to slag off tc/tpm as the evil of the world tbh but there are plenty of valid consumer-benefitting uses of it, the question is just whether aegis is one or not Jul 09 23:02:16 the more control you grant, the more probelmatic cases you may have missed Jul 09 23:02:21 Aegis was _probably_ designed to be one. Jul 09 23:04:16 wow, the vmware guys have a fine usb sniffer these days. Jul 09 23:04:37 nid0: I am on same page as those security experts quoted on wiki: "you don't need TC for implementing this kind of protecting the user from shit" - the *only* usecase that can only handled by TC is to protect *the device* from *the user* Jul 09 23:05:09 for allother cases there are possix-perms, SElinux, whatnot else Jul 09 23:07:06 well, I can name another use-case right now, with sed's - we use them at work now at all our remote storage arrays, and the sole reason is to keep user data safe if drives go walkies from the systems theyre meant to be connected to Jul 09 23:07:46 sorry, please rephrase Jul 09 23:08:38 sorry - self-encrypting drives - hard drives that encrypt themselves via a hardware tpm, so the drive's data is physically irretrievable in any other system Jul 09 23:09:07 software full-disk encryption but via hardware tpm basically, and removes the crippling performance drops software fde has Jul 09 23:09:09 that's pretty much standard on each and every HDD you buy today Jul 09 23:09:53 no, it's not. any drive supports software fde, but pretty much no consumer drives are sed Jul 09 23:10:18 seems that you where right DocScrutinizer, pupnik still gets drunk from time to time. Jul 09 23:10:21 sad to see. Jul 09 23:10:40 any of you are a #meego chanop btw? Jul 09 23:10:45 how do you tell? Jul 09 23:10:49 aah Jul 09 23:10:55 javispedro, nope. :P Jul 09 23:12:46 good morning Jul 09 23:14:13 morning Termana. Jul 09 23:17:29 Termana, time for some Your order has shipped emails Jul 09 23:18:00 incredible, 12 real users on accesslist and the whole #meego chan goes unmoderated Jul 09 23:20:00 DocScrutinizer, seems like it's pupnik Jul 09 23:20:33 of course it's pupnik Jul 09 23:20:36 toldya Jul 09 23:27:27 MohammadAG, sounds good to me. The sooner it ships the sooner I can stop using this STUPID android phone! Oh, and work on making my app work :p Jul 09 23:27:49 whoever picked #meego's ops sure did a great job Jul 09 23:29:50 you all android traitors =) Jul 09 23:33:05 MohammadAG: indeed Jul 09 23:33:21 I gather it's been stskeeps Jul 09 23:34:25 right now dawnfoster and qgil have F as well, but I think originally the canel been founded by stskeeps Jul 09 23:38:17 MohammadAG: which makes me ponder about the number of active and caring chanops in *this* channel Jul 09 23:39:58 seems like stskeeps, andre__, dneary, crashanddie, vdvsx are not really active anymore Jul 09 23:41:50 leaves 4. well 3 as X-Fade isn't as frequently active here as he used to be, and jaffa also seems to become a rare see Jul 09 23:42:33 They've all gone to #meego Jul 09 23:42:50 so have we found a way to bypass aegis yet? Jul 09 23:43:26 there's open mode, which no one's daring to try Jul 09 23:43:43 jonwil: nope Jul 09 23:44:12 MohammadAG: tell no FUD, tell how to do that! Jul 09 23:44:38 I still think finding out what part of the system sets the sysfs aegis security entries might help Jul 09 23:44:48 I'm guessing it's an R&D flag DocScrutinizer Jul 09 23:44:56 uhuh Jul 09 23:45:03 didn't frals give you pointers too? Jul 09 23:45:27 yes, plus the remark "will most likely brick *your* devices" Jul 09 23:45:54 Well, that sounds pleasant Jul 09 23:46:25 brick is so overused Jul 09 23:46:35 so what? reflash Jul 09 23:47:05 so what? it's just the FIRST time ANYBODY did that Jul 09 23:47:12 ...night all. Jul 09 23:47:15 no big deal, yeah Jul 09 23:47:56 MohammadAG: only soft brick? Are we sure he didnt mean *brick* brick? :p Jul 09 23:47:56 also it's easy to go to next shop and get a swap device when flashing fails, for whatever reasons Jul 09 23:48:55 MohammadAG: those loaners weren't sent out to test aegis, after all Jul 09 23:49:27 neither to test flashing, hell it's not even been clear if there's a working image to flash at all Jul 09 23:49:53 luckily I can confirm now the image indeed works Jul 09 23:51:25 just it's a *complete* combined-vanilla-combined flash that won't leave any backups to rstore after flashing, AIUI Jul 09 23:53:23 and rather than messing with friggin aegis I'd prefer to see Nokia give proper advice how to deal with this nuissance, so devels can concentrate on what they're supposed to do: develop, not debug aegis Jul 09 23:54:18 Termana, I'm sure Jul 09 23:54:25 otherwise qgil wouldn't have talked about it Jul 09 23:55:39 Here we go again Jul 09 23:55:44 Shit just got real in #meego Jul 09 23:56:03 Termana, I GOT DIS Jul 09 23:56:05 or not Jul 10 00:01:54 so we are giving up on trying to bypass aegis and are going to ask Nokia to provide an answer ASAP? Jul 10 00:04:49 woot? Jul 10 00:07:02 jonwil: as for now it seems nobody but me ran into this problem, and this won't change until at very least Monday, I'd think it's not really high priority to find out about things that we might get tought "for free" in a few days. Better save our efforts we assign to this topic for the time after we really learned the basics and can poke into the interesting Fringe cases (so I have to pay royalties for "fringe" now?) Jul 10 00:07:15 hiemanshu: jacekowski Jul 10 00:07:27 hiemanshu: sorry ETAB Jul 10 00:07:35 jacekowski: hi! Jul 10 00:07:39 hi Jul 10 00:07:48 you've got N950 or N9? Jul 10 00:07:54 950 Jul 10 00:07:58 where from Jul 10 00:08:07 eeh? Jul 10 00:08:18 bought or from nokia or what Jul 10 00:08:24 Helsinki? Nokia? meego DDP? Jul 10 00:08:29 ddp? Jul 10 00:08:37 developer device program Jul 10 00:08:39 jacekowski: you cant buy an n950 Jul 10 00:08:51 Termana: you can buy everything Jul 10 00:09:03 DocScrutinizer: will you sell N950 for £1million Jul 10 00:09:16 lemme put it this way: I *wouldn't* buy it Jul 10 00:09:50 jacekowski: of course... not Jul 10 00:10:14 jacekowski: see. I told you - you cant buy one Jul 10 00:10:35 but I could imagine somebody would be willing to kill me to sell the N950 for GBP1mio Jul 10 00:10:38 DocScrutinizer: £1 billion Jul 10 00:11:35 jacekowski: if you have that much money to waste, spread some of it our way will ya? :p Jul 10 00:11:39 so I had to run for my life, and meanwhile I bet my apartment gets robbed Jul 10 00:12:47 Termana: i'm just proving that it's only matter of price Jul 10 00:13:19 any news on N9 release date Jul 10 00:13:43 nah Jul 10 00:14:05 does N950 have fmtx? Jul 10 00:14:13 jacekowski: you're waiting for it? Jul 10 00:14:15 jacekowski: it doesnt count whe *you* cant pay the amount. Therefore *you* still couldnt buy one :p Jul 10 00:14:32 DocScrutinizer: well, i'm wondering what it has Jul 10 00:14:34 jacekowski: yes, has FMTX I heard, alas the antenna is missing Jul 10 00:14:49 who said that? Jul 10 00:15:12 rumour has it Jul 10 00:15:42 seems like all TX modulo modem is in one chip Jul 10 00:15:55 BT, WLAN, FMTX and FMRX Jul 10 00:16:35 we'd need the datasheet to know any better details for speculations Jul 10 00:17:15 jacekowski: might be a nice topic for you Jul 10 00:17:36 jacekowski: iirc you wrapped your head quite a bit around N900 FMTX Jul 10 00:22:10 which chip# is that one? Jul 10 00:22:15 model Jul 10 00:23:28 see wiki Jul 10 00:24:02 wl1273? Jul 10 00:24:48 in which case, Jul 10 00:24:49 http://lwn.net/Articles/391209/ Jul 10 00:25:27 http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:N950_Hardware Jul 10 00:25:34 comes with embedded codec, uh. Jul 10 00:40:58 DocScrutinizer, I thought it was wl1271? Jul 10 01:08:55 that's N900 iirc Jul 10 01:12:19 DocScrutinizer, N900 was 1251 Jul 10 01:12:43 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?temhttp://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12762&contentId=29993&DCMP=wtbu_connectivity&HQS=Other+OT+wilink6plateId=6123&navigationId=12762&contentId=29993&DCMP=wtbu_connectivity&HQS=Other+OT+wilink6 Jul 10 01:13:25 so yes, it's probably a 1271 Jul 10 01:14:01 which, for the driver and other specs besides a, doesn't make a diff Jul 10 01:14:24 seeing as how the n950's a developers only thing, will there be an n1000 or somesuch? :( Jul 10 01:14:32 I want a keyboard damn it :( Jul 10 01:14:49 good luck finding a decent handset with a keyboard Jul 10 01:15:05 Handset makers seem to be moving away from keyboards :( Jul 10 01:15:11 the n900's good enough for me Jul 10 01:15:13 which is stupid Jul 10 01:15:31 My N900 is perfectly fine Jul 10 01:19:47 At some point the market becomes toxic. Jul 10 01:20:28 The customers decide due to being pushed that mostly silly features are desirable. Jul 10 01:20:34 For example, depth. Jul 10 01:20:41 Or lack thereof. Jul 10 01:22:50 hey, the N950 is a pretty good proof that you can build slim devices with kbd as well Jul 10 01:23:41 the only part that really sufers is camery Jul 10 01:23:45 camera Jul 10 01:24:06 How does the hinge feel? Jul 10 01:24:18 hinge? Jul 10 01:24:40 aah Jul 10 01:24:56 not as bad as I expected Jul 10 01:25:13 but will definitely break on first accident Jul 10 01:25:40 see my photos on OVI Jul 10 01:26:25 the joints look kinda strange Jul 10 01:27:09 also it's only the small (<40%) center support and a slim lever at one side Jul 10 01:27:32 can I install chrome on maemo5 ? Jul 10 01:27:53 DocScrutinizer, to me it looks better than the N97 Jul 10 01:27:58 is it plastic? Jul 10 01:28:12 I never scrutinized the N97 Jul 10 01:28:13 and when you tell nokia care about the broken hinge, they swap your n950 for a wp7 phone. Jul 10 01:28:36 dunno if it's plastic, I'd think the small lever is alu Jul 10 01:28:42 but before that they install aegis on the wp7 device, so that you can continue doing real harmattan work ;) Jul 10 01:28:49 it was plastic on the N97 :P Jul 10 01:30:07 the center support is plastic Jul 10 01:31:51 btw see the purple dot on top of my "you nuked it" warning screen photo? Proxy, shining all the time Jul 10 01:38:04 * jonwil wishes he could find something to do for the N900 Jul 10 01:38:22 HAHA, all the time isn't exactly correct. It pretty much stops shining when you approach it close enough to make it trigger Jul 10 01:39:35 jonwil: find a way to read out the ADC1..4(..8?) anaolog channels Jul 10 01:39:45 no clue how to do that Jul 10 01:39:52 Low level hardware stuff isnt my area :P Jul 10 01:40:07 aah yes Jul 10 01:40:25 has to be something I can do Jul 10 01:40:41 alsaped Jul 10 01:40:56 find out what the friggin thing is doing Jul 10 01:41:48 I wonder if sd69 realizes he should be using actual titles for those council posts. . . . Jul 10 01:42:26 there's even a hack on the config files: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63997 - but it seems nobody really got a *spec* for what's that stuff in there and how *exactly* it works Jul 10 01:43:00 GeneralAntilles: eh? Jul 10 01:43:32 http://maemo.org/community/council/council_update-july_2011/ Jul 10 01:45:27 * GeneralAntilles exhales a big meh at that post. Jul 10 01:47:05 achipa, woo: http://achipa.blogspot.com/2011/07/qt-components-story-of-ugly-qwidgetling.html Jul 10 01:52:51 grr @ irc.anonops Jul 10 01:54:47 ..wrong chan.. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 10 02:59:58 2011