**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 15 02:59:57 2011 Jul 15 04:41:53 muten gorgen Jul 15 05:21:24 sid_: why df and fdisk? How about just using "mount" Jul 15 07:38:48 GeneralAntilles, yep, got it yesterday Jul 15 07:39:00 the (capacitative) touchscreen is awesome, much better than the one on a N900 Jul 15 07:39:27 I used to hate scrolling because I would usually not push hard enough Jul 15 07:39:31 now a light touch is sufficien Jul 15 07:39:33 t Jul 15 07:41:09 precise aiming (for, e.g., text selection) can be tricky, though Jul 15 07:52:59 haha Jul 15 07:53:55 http://chrisaitchison.com/2011/05/03/you-are-not-a-software-engineer Jul 15 07:54:01 Bill Maher interviews a senator about religion, and Bill Maher tells him "It worries me that people who are running the country, people like you Senator, believe in a talking snake", to which the senator replies "You don't have to pass an IQ test to be a Senator, though", with a big smile... Bill Maher is stumped, and slowly the senator realises what he just said, and his smile fades away. Jul 15 07:54:32 rofl Jul 15 07:55:19 so, the car charger that my n900 didn't detect? Jul 15 07:55:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHqTkAEqmmU&t=7m34s Jul 15 07:55:36 ruskie ^ Jul 15 07:55:46 n950 sees it as a PC -- gives me the usual "mass storage/SDK/whatever" menu, then pops up a notification saying "not enough current for charging" Jul 15 07:55:48 but then charges anyway Jul 15 07:56:01 rofl Jul 15 07:56:06 the battery screen in Settings estimates 14 thousand minutes until full charge Jul 15 07:56:09 iirc Jul 15 07:56:31 so 10 days? Jul 15 07:56:49 I think it's trying to pull the current but it's just not there hence the message Jul 15 07:56:57 probably Jul 15 08:31:27 grr, N950 still is a new order :/ Jul 15 08:32:07 MohammadAG :( Jul 15 08:58:31 my n900 is on ebay and its bid is at $99 usd 6 hours left! Jul 15 09:35:30 hmmm ... so my N900 has an rt-com SIP account .... any idea where it keeps the password ? Jul 15 09:36:18 hm... gconf? Jul 15 09:37:13 lbt, I'd guess same place telepathy stores passwords Jul 15 09:37:36 OK - don't suppose you have a rough path ? Jul 15 09:38:21 nope, sorry :( Jul 15 09:41:43 thanks ... gave me the google-fu : they're in /home/user/.rtcom-accounts/accounts.cfg Jul 15 09:42:07 yo yo Jul 15 09:42:26 how do I query the current volume on the n900 from cli? Jul 15 09:42:37 there doesnt appear to be a gconf2 setting or dbus call Jul 15 09:42:45 vi__: alsactl? Jul 15 09:42:51 interesting Jul 15 09:43:07 however isn't the audio done by pulse? Jul 15 09:43:17 Yes, but it still uses ALSA volume controls. Jul 15 09:43:43 (and ALSA for actual audio output as Pulseaudio itself has no device drivers) Jul 15 09:44:14 vi__, you sure about the lack of a dbus call? Jul 15 09:44:18 so if I turn volume down on alsa then I will be able to turn it up with hardware volume keys? Jul 15 09:44:25 MohammadAG: yes Jul 15 09:44:33 MohammadAG: there is a set, but no get! Jul 15 09:44:38 vi__, wrong Jul 15 09:44:42 orly? Jul 15 09:44:47 vi__, you can get the current n900 volume with gconftool -g /apps/osso/sound/master_volume Jul 15 09:45:34 You could also get the volume via Pulseaudio API but I don't know if there are any CLI tools for that. Jul 15 09:45:34 dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string:volume Jul 15 09:46:01 mgedmin, No value set for `/apps/osso/sound/master_volume' Jul 15 09:46:29 hmm Jul 15 09:47:11 dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string:volume | grep uint32 | awk '{print $3}' Jul 15 09:47:16 I retyped that from a shell script on my n900 that used to work Jul 15 09:47:28 for the numerical value (without dbus reply strings) Jul 15 09:47:33 dunno, maybe firmware updates got rid of the gconf volume thingy Jul 15 09:47:56 dbus works as well I guess Jul 15 09:48:38 MohammadAG: ...you sweet, sick sonovvabitch Jul 15 09:49:26 FWIW I am making a mute script, however I need to store the current volume before I set to 0 so I can restore it after Jul 15 09:49:56 MohammadAG: where did you find that info Jul 15 09:50:07 MohammadAG: I didnt see it on the api page Jul 15 09:50:16 vi__, I wrote an open mediaplayer :P Jul 15 09:50:54 isn't there a separate mute switch? Jul 15 09:51:06 just set volume to 0 Jul 15 09:51:09 or perhaps negative numbers to indicate muteness without losing the old volume? Jul 15 09:51:22 don't think so Jul 15 09:51:27 linux audio apis generally let you mute/unmute and remember the previous volume setting when you unmute... Jul 15 09:51:36 maybe the n900 is special Jul 15 09:51:37 would be useful tbh Jul 15 09:51:44 mgedmin: youd think so... Jul 15 09:51:52 the n900 is speshul! Jul 15 09:52:02 special needs Jul 15 09:52:34 dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Ma Jul 15 09:52:34 fw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.noki Jul 15 09:52:34 a.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string:volume | awk '{print $3}' | tail Jul 15 09:52:34 -n1 Jul 15 09:52:59 bah xterm, shuvving newlines wherever the fk it feels like Jul 15 09:53:24 FYI, for calls you might need PA API + sink-input-by-media-role:phone Jul 15 09:59:51 MohammadAG: mgedmin : nope. 1.1 removed cleartext pwd from the config... however : http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Mission_Control ... mc-tool show will show the passwd Jul 15 10:12:41 :q Jul 15 10:55:31 inspite i have specified "user" in /etc/fstab for an entry, i still can't mount my microsd as normal user, how can enable mounting as user? Jul 15 10:59:04 Do you have the right permissions on the microsd device node? Jul 15 11:06:11 vdv: etc/fstab is cruft Jul 15 11:07:01 vdv: look at your "specified user" in there after next boot! ;-D fstab is autogeneretad at boot, it's the initscripts that actually do all the mounts - hardcoded Jul 15 11:07:20 so fstab is just a better mounttab Jul 15 11:08:19 vdv: alsi see very first line in /etc/fstab - should make you wonder... Jul 15 11:08:24 also* Jul 15 11:09:25 s/mounttab/mtab/ Jul 15 11:10:22 DocScrutinizer, ah Jul 15 11:11:06 here's another related problem Jul 15 11:11:09 for mounting "as user" probably etc/sudoers.d/* is your friend Jul 15 11:11:17 i've changed sudoers Jul 15 11:11:21 yes Jul 15 11:11:32 and i can mount as user now Jul 15 11:11:43 but still don't have write permissions Jul 15 11:11:45 NEVER!!!! NEVER EVER change/edit /etc/sudoers! Jul 15 11:11:57 why? :) Jul 15 11:12:08 you'll risk a reflash Jul 15 11:12:27 indeed... Jul 15 11:12:35 use /etc/sudoers.d/ and update-sudoers cmd Jul 15 11:12:43 what i've added is "user ALL = NOPASSWD: /bin/mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /sdcard" Jul 15 11:12:59 i'll remove that line then Jul 15 11:13:04 vdv: /etc/sudoers also is "autogenerated" Jul 15 11:13:11 ah Jul 15 11:13:31 ### Automatically added by update-sudoers start ### Jul 15 11:13:32 lol Jul 15 11:13:34 look into update-sudoers Jul 15 11:13:48 it's a script afaik Jul 15 11:13:53 you'll understand# Jul 15 11:13:55 DocScrutinizer: what on earth is visudo for then? Jul 15 11:14:13 good question Jul 15 11:14:21 yes, i've edited with visudo Jul 15 11:14:26 because it has worked very well for me Jul 15 11:14:38 then again I don't remember ever using update-sudoers Jul 15 11:14:42 anyway the sudo we got doesn't support #includedir Jul 15 11:15:00 so they implemented sudoers.d/ via update-sudoers Jul 15 11:15:24 and update-sudoers is run at every boot Jul 15 11:15:36 oh Jul 15 11:15:48 DocScrutinizer, so i created a new file under sudoers.d/ ? Jul 15 11:15:58 so if you mess up sth in etc/sudoers , odds are you're up for a bootloop next boot Jul 15 11:16:04 vdv: yes Jul 15 11:16:12 ok Jul 15 11:18:21 http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access#A_note_on_sudo vdv DocScrutinizer Jul 15 11:18:22 sudoers updated, mount as user is working Jul 15 11:18:38 DocScrutinizer: I asked for a tracking number, and my ticket was closed without a reply to it :/ Jul 15 11:19:12 humm Jul 15 11:19:59 hiemanshu, at least yours shipped Jul 15 11:20:15 so, i have to check now whether my sudoers contains duplicated entries? Jul 15 11:20:46 MohammadAG: I had to email them asking it to be shipped ASAP so it isn't stuck when I am moving houses, but MEH, its a friday, and I at the new place on monday Jul 15 11:24:02 how must be mount command look like, so that after mounting as user, it will be possible also to write on mounted device? Jul 15 11:24:42 simply "sudo mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /sdcard" doesn't work Jul 15 11:25:09 /sdcard is still owned by root Jul 15 11:25:25 and others have only read on that dir Jul 15 11:26:14 sudo -t vfat mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /sdcard Jul 15 11:26:35 it's ext3 Jul 15 11:26:48 sudo -t ext3 mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /sdcard Jul 15 11:26:49 :) Jul 15 11:27:02 ext3 with mount is default, no? Jul 15 11:27:18 mount -o uid=29999,gid=29999,utf8,dmask=027,fmask=137 /dev/$partitions /media/$partitions Jul 15 11:27:18 you alway put -t arg Jul 15 11:27:30 is a way Jul 15 11:27:42 ah, ok Jul 15 11:29:03 thanks :) Jul 15 11:43:35 MohammadAG: o/ Jul 15 12:08:47 I think I am getting closer to figuring out the connui stuff at last, just need to keep playing with it a bit Jul 15 12:09:09 I think I got about 3 or 4 functions left to figure out now Jul 15 12:09:31 Being able to debug inside hildon-home with gdb has really helped :P Jul 15 12:17:27 jonwil: :-D Jul 15 12:17:32 and hi Jul 15 12:18:31 with luck I should soon have a clone of connui-cellular-operator-home-item.so :) Jul 15 12:18:33 I wonder how this little adventure (debug hildon-home rsp the equiv) would end on harmattan&aegis Jul 15 12:18:54 jonwil: you're da king Jul 15 12:18:56 can you even get a GDB binary for Harmattan? Jul 15 12:19:06 I think so Jul 15 12:19:08 mompl Jul 15 12:19:30 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# apt-cache search gdb Jul 15 12:19:31 gdb - The GNU Debugger Jul 15 12:19:33 gdbserver - The GNU Debugger (remote server) Jul 15 12:19:51 ok, nice :) Jul 15 12:20:15 yeah, but: Jul 15 12:20:22 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# apt-cache search bash Jul 15 12:20:23 RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# Jul 15 12:22:00 * jonwil wonders if the new IDA he downloaded today will help with reverse engineering any of this stuff :P Jul 15 12:23:17 in a typical nokia fashion, I had to accept a licence that said "NO REVERSE ENGINEERING OF ANY KIND YOU NAUGHTY PERSON" in order to get a n950 Jul 15 12:24:05 those exact words? cool ;-) Jul 15 12:24:14 I'm paraphrasing Jul 15 12:24:28 and it's probably illegal in Europe and thus void Jul 15 12:24:37 yes, it is Jul 15 12:24:38 as long as I'm reverse-engineering for interoperability purposes Jul 15 12:24:41 vid in EU Jul 15 12:24:42 but meh Jul 15 12:24:52 void* Jul 15 12:25:24 though only for sw you *bought* Jul 15 12:25:26 well, its not illegal at all Jul 15 12:25:32 because you didnt buy the n950 Jul 15 12:25:32 if nokia wants to erode their goodwill, who am I to argue? Jul 15 12:25:55 I suspect Nokia arent going to care about reverse engineering as long as the reverse engineering doesn't hurt Nokia in some way Jul 15 12:25:58 if theyre lending you one, they can impose whatever the hell restrictions they want Jul 15 12:26:34 That reminds me, I am going to create a wiki page listing/linking to all the resources out there for source code and things from the N900 Jul 15 12:26:39 so linking to stuff I have found Jul 15 12:26:51 As well as anything I posted to the mailing list (via the archives) Jul 15 12:27:15 well anything I can remember the location of :) Jul 15 12:27:15 jonwil: friggin useful, go for it Jul 15 12:27:31 Then I will post to the mailing list telling people about the wiki page Jul 15 12:27:36 and asking for them to throw more information onto it Jul 15 12:30:41 Lets call the page "N900 resources" Jul 15 12:30:56 unless anyone has any other ideas Jul 15 12:35:29 N900 xeno-resources Jul 15 12:44:52 Still stuck in the UK Jul 15 12:44:55 what a crock Jul 15 12:47:31 GAN900, Same here "Processed at EAST MIDLANDS". Jul 15 12:48:36 One giant wind up Jul 15 12:56:14 maybe ill have to go rob the hell out of that dhl warehouse Jul 15 13:14:20 ok, so source code I have found so far: Jul 15 13:14:37 Maemo and MeeGo gitorius repos Jul 15 13:14:45 Community SSU repo Jul 15 13:14:52 maemo5 certman git repo Jul 15 13:15:18 Maemo Fremantle pool repos (i.e. all of /free/*) Jul 15 13:15:36 Anyone know of anything else source code related I should know of? Jul 15 13:16:18 using http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html to identify possibly interesting packages in Fremantle or Harmattan SDKs Jul 15 13:16:27 or pools or repos Jul 15 13:21:09 GAN900: Mine has moved on. East Midlands to London, sorting, left London (5 AM?) Jul 15 13:23:10 Waiting until Monday. Jul 15 13:23:19 Makes me really dislike Nokia this weekend. Jul 15 13:24:17 Well... Jul 15 13:24:31 GeneralAntilles: You get all weekend to write code with no distractions Jul 15 13:27:51 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4815558/Nokia_N9_RM-696_Service_Manual_L1L2_v1.0.pdf Jul 15 13:27:58 DocScrutinizer, ^ Jul 15 13:29:24 WUTWUTUWUT????? Jul 15 13:30:16 WOOOW Jul 15 13:31:18 They mispelled MeeGo... Jul 15 13:31:35 "Do not leave the battery connected to a charger for longer than a week, since overcharging may shorten its lifetime." Jul 15 13:31:38 lol Jul 15 13:32:54 Battery replacement doesn't look too terrible. Jul 15 13:33:09 now there's actually hope for schematics any time soon Jul 15 13:33:51 though ""solder components info is not available currently and will be updated later"" Jul 15 13:34:09 GeneralAntilles: Where is the N950 service manual? Jul 15 13:36:15 * DocScrutinizer ponders email-pestering service.mauals@nokia.com to send him schematics ;-D Jul 15 13:37:08 today the n950 failed spectacularly =) Jul 15 13:37:13 GeneralAntilles, dude what? Jul 15 13:37:18 fiferboy: won't appear any time soon. Remember? "no warranty" - so no need to train service point technicians Jul 15 13:37:23 ShadowJK, what? Jul 15 13:37:54 http://www.knownokia.ca/2011/07/nokia-n9-service-manual.html is where it came from. Jul 15 13:37:56 It's behind the screen, a flex cable, and a few "do not use again" components? :-) Jul 15 13:38:17 It missed an SMS, didn't ring when someone called, the call-ui window was empty, added the wrong number to the missed calls list, failed to kill an outgoing call, and hung during poweroff =) Jul 15 13:38:18 this N9 L1&2 SM leaking indicates Nokia is about to prepare their service points for N9 rollout Jul 15 13:38:20 ShadowJK, as in: not a phone-ending failure. Jul 15 13:39:22 * javispedro puts sim back on n900 Jul 15 13:39:26 javispedro: epic Jul 15 13:39:43 My N900 misses SMSes all the time. Jul 15 13:39:58 Hm, I wonder. Since the battery isn't integrated and not user replaceable, can it still be considered a consumable or does Nokia have to give it 2 year warranty? :-) Jul 15 13:40:16 DocScrutinizer: Good point Jul 15 13:40:40 * ShadowJK has never really missed anything with N900 Jul 15 13:41:53 ShadowJK: clearly it's under a 2 year warranty then Jul 15 13:41:56 we want new firmware!! Jul 15 13:42:00 ;P Jul 15 13:42:23 we want javispedro and GeneralAntilles on #harmattan ;-P Jul 15 13:42:35 No more channels. Jul 15 13:43:05 sadly, we're losing the "no more channels" war already. Jul 15 13:43:14 drop #meego-handset for it! ;-) Jul 15 13:47:04 DocScrutinizer, and at what threshold is the battery considered spent? :-) Jul 15 13:47:20 the cpf peopel use 85% or something as threshold, iirc Jul 15 13:47:41 and the RC crowd... when it gets pregnant or blows up Jul 15 13:48:24 hmmm, anyone got a suggestion as to what I should call the section in this info page for "stuff thats in the fremantle SDK that is worth downloading but that you might not have known about" Jul 15 13:48:49 but more concise Jul 15 13:49:56 ShadowJK: good point - I guess bme decides on that, you got a display "Battery status: GOOD" in settings Jul 15 13:50:18 javispedro, but we can't surrender! Jul 15 13:50:24 NFC what it needs to make this a "POOR" Jul 15 13:50:34 since when has bme been able to make any sensible decisions Jul 15 13:50:44 never ever Jul 15 13:51:25 we do not have to drop the maemo brand even if Nokia did! Jul 15 13:51:31 reply question: since when have service point technicians ever been educated to make any sensible decisions? Jul 15 13:51:43 lol Jul 15 13:52:18 a suprisingly large amount of the n9 is listed by the service manual as having to be thrown away and replaced just to take it apart Jul 15 13:52:28 nid0: as usual.. Jul 15 13:52:34 1.5 years ago when the local-ish (50km) service point said F U to Nokia and ceased being a Nokia service point? Jul 15 13:52:39 javispedro: nobody is going to "drop the maemo brand" Jul 15 13:53:07 rdate: adjust local clock by 31449601.134596 seconds (lol) Jul 15 13:53:13 javispedro: au contraire I guess #harmattan will join back to #maemo as soon as market get soaked with N9 Jul 15 13:53:50 for now it's highly disturbing to kill the N900 discussions here with harmattan/N950 noise Jul 15 13:55:04 so let's keep this chan for N900 fremantle just a few months longer, until it again suffers the diablo->fremantle aka N900 effect Jul 15 13:55:09 So, any news about those DDP orders? Jul 15 13:55:16 well n950 is the final nail in the coffin for the n900, for maemo and for nokias open platform efforts Jul 15 13:56:11 cehteh: indeed, and that's why I try to promote the idea of a dedicated channel #harmattan for now Jul 15 13:56:13 Doc: Wait, it cannot, there are only 250 N950s! Jul 15 13:56:53 RST38h: there are a feir bit more than 250 Jul 15 13:56:57 fair* Jul 15 13:57:00 .o(DocScrutinizer sets mode +l250 on #harmattan) Jul 15 13:57:00 RST38h: Sure it can - if a large fraction of the talk in here gets to be n950 specific, it becomes much less useful for those doing n900 dev Jul 15 13:57:26 and yet no one created a new #n900 channel during the amsterdam era Jul 15 13:57:37 well, someone should've :) Jul 15 13:57:46 Speed: I think we do not have to worry about too much N950 talk... Jul 15 13:57:55 javispedro: that's not my fault Jul 15 13:57:57 * RST38h still has not got his btw, still registering as "new order" Jul 15 13:57:58 yeah .. lots people feel bad here when asking about n8xx and n710 Jul 15 13:58:06 There was a September proto channel, however. :P Jul 15 13:58:07 Since the 8th Jul 15 13:58:24 Actually the biggest annoyance about N950 talk is that I can't buy one, and I hate being reminded it exists. Jul 15 13:58:25 SpeedEvil: exactly Jul 15 13:58:25 N710? Jul 15 13:58:34 * javispedro friendly-fires on GeneralAntilles for causing me to make a bad point Jul 15 13:58:39 javispedro, ping Jul 15 13:58:43 wrong number? i never had one Jul 15 13:58:49 Venemo: shoot. Jul 15 13:58:51 javispedro, but that one involved NDAs. Jul 15 13:58:57 cehteh, "Nokia 770" Jul 15 13:59:03 ok Jul 15 14:00:00 hey how about a prostest action .. anyone who got a n950 sends it back to nokia because of their politics? Jul 15 14:00:04 (ok pointless) Jul 15 14:00:08 lol Jul 15 14:00:12 * javispedro sighs and ponder surrendering to #harmattan Jul 15 14:00:30 haha Jul 15 14:00:46 javispedro, how familiar are you with harmattan's meegotouch-home? if you prefer, let's have the discussion in #harmattan Jul 15 14:00:47 and btw #harmattan absolutely not been *my* idea - it seems X-Fade was involved in the birth of this chan Jul 15 14:00:57 javispedro, I'm holding out at least 'til Monday, apparently. Jul 15 14:01:18 what, #harmattan is a good channel Jul 15 14:01:23 DocScrutinizer, oh, well, in that case I should join right up. :P Jul 15 14:01:25 so it sounds a bit silly to insist in discussing harmattan stuff here, for now Jul 15 14:01:55 mgedmin: would it be plausible for povbot to start logging #harmattan? Jul 15 14:02:02 well serious question, anyone here considering to port apps to WP7? no i dont want to blame anyone, but i am curious if noka can attract single developers from the free software scene Jul 15 14:02:14 Not me, I HATE WP7 Jul 15 14:02:17 javispedro, #harmattan is logged Jul 15 14:02:20 does anyone here know anything about .NET CF? Jul 15 14:02:21 noone? Jul 15 14:02:25 porting to wp7 will be certainly quite some efforts Jul 15 14:02:32 If I was going to develop for anything else other than the N900, it would be Android Jul 15 14:02:41 Venemo: but refresh daily Jul 15 14:02:52 javispedro, WP7 is not based on .NET CF, but in case you're wondering, yes I know a lot about Silverlight Jul 15 14:02:52 Venemo: instead of 5-minutely like on povbot's site. Jul 15 14:02:55 aah Jul 15 14:03:48 * cehteh thinks that developing/porting apps to wp7 is only feasible for moderately big software houses who can hire some devs Jul 15 14:04:01 Venemo: Silverlight is based on .NET CF? Jul 15 14:04:09 javispedro, no, it is not Jul 15 14:04:20 hm.. Jul 15 14:04:22 there is no QT on WP7 either or? Jul 15 14:04:34 Venemo: either way, the Harmattan meegotouchhome is mostly closed Jul 15 14:04:38 javispedro, Silverlight is a technology originally made to kill Flash, but its apparent lack of portability made it not succeed. Jul 15 14:05:02 javispedro, that is sad. I wish we could fix the redraw issue when it rotates to landscape Jul 15 14:05:17 Venemo: other than where the closed stuff is I don't know much about it. Jul 15 14:05:39 javispedro, is the app grid closed? Jul 15 14:05:43 yes Jul 15 14:05:44 javispedro, yes, I can set up #harmattan logging Jul 15 14:05:46 :( Jul 15 14:05:50 :(:(:( Jul 15 14:05:59 mgedmin: thank you very much! Jul 15 14:07:37 It sucks that all the desktop and home and interface for Harmattan is closed when the same things on Fremantle were open :) Jul 15 14:07:42 that should be :( Jul 15 14:07:44 not :) Jul 15 14:07:47 Nokia has done an interesting move here Jul 15 14:08:02 they have provided open but more simplistic equivalents Jul 15 14:08:20 ie they have provided a simpler meegotouchhome, a simpler compositor Jul 15 14:08:26 (because yes, the compositor also has a closed plugin) Jul 15 14:08:38 so basically they didnt want to share their fancy new UX for Harmattan Jul 15 14:08:42 basically. Jul 15 14:09:34 could we use the open app grid plugin (from meego ce) in harmattan? Jul 15 14:10:50 cehteh: You cannot port applications to WP7. You rewrite them from scratch. Jul 15 14:10:55 weirdly, this issue only happens when it rotates from portrait to landscape or when it rotates back and it's already there. Jul 15 14:11:19 if I make the it redrawn (swipe away and back), then it rotates back to portrait without issue Jul 15 14:11:24 Same for Android (if not using NDK) and iOS (if not using C++ as ObjC++). Jul 15 14:11:26 Tronic: well sometimes a port is rather a rewrite .. but that depends on the application and platform Jul 15 14:11:44 Tronic, there is Qt for Android! Jul 15 14:12:02 But consider PC, Mac, N900, N9, even some Symbian I suppose: you write the program once and compile for all these platforms (with minor changes). Jul 15 14:12:16 and iOS and Android. Jul 15 14:12:20 and WebOS. Jul 15 14:12:37 Venemo: That's why I said without NDK. Jul 15 14:13:04 ah. Jul 15 14:13:08 at least if you're using SDL and OpenGL ES 2 you can these days write a game that is 99.9% source portable between PC, Mac, N900, N9, iOS, Android and WebOS ;) Jul 15 14:13:42 javispedro: Didn't know there were Qt ports to iOS and WebOS, or what did you refer to? Jul 15 14:13:50 I mentioned SDL Jul 15 14:14:30 and the list doesn't end there: Nintendo DS, Wii, ... Jul 15 14:14:42 (but those two without OGL2 =) ) Jul 15 14:15:46 I wish they'd publish a GLES 3.0 already. Jul 15 14:16:12 Adding geometry shaders and better API sync with OGL 4.1. Jul 15 14:16:47 Most importantly new GLSL version because there have been major syntactical changes. Jul 15 14:16:51 So yeah should also be possible to make that game portable on most linux distros Jul 15 14:17:09 jonwil: Source code portable, you'd still have to compile it for each distro. Jul 15 14:17:15 yeah Jul 15 14:17:19 yeah Jul 15 14:17:28 jonwil: ... or try to hack together a statically linked 32 bit binary with everything built into it. Jul 15 14:20:50 Of course it would also be helpful if desktop Linux open-source drivers supported even OpenGL 3.x (hopefully 4.1 as well), they are still stuck with 2.1. The new versions are great but development sucks when you are stuck with these obsolete platforms. Jul 15 14:31:45 I have seen some developers blame software patents for that situation Jul 15 14:35:57 my god the Nokia QT SDK is taking forever to install Jul 15 14:36:04 it wants to install something called madde and I cant turn it off... Jul 15 14:36:29 mgedmin: (#harmattan loggin) much appreciated, go ahead Jul 15 14:36:56 what IS madde anyway? Jul 15 14:37:59 some IDE I thought Jul 15 14:38:49 madde is a) a set of armel cross compilers b) all of the platform header files c) a copy of Fremantle ROM Jul 15 14:39:15 so that you can build "cross-compilable" applications in any platform where the cross compilers run Jul 15 14:39:36 you can build Qt apps for the N900 on Windows with it , for example. Jul 15 14:39:47 but you cannot run a GNU configure script, for another example. Jul 15 14:40:00 and using the ROM + qemu you can test the applications. Jul 15 14:40:04 but this works utterly slow. Jul 15 14:40:39 so it's basically true crosscompile vs the SB qemu "native" build process Jul 15 14:40:43 ? Jul 15 14:49:54 DocScrutinizer: yes. Jul 15 15:08:33 bah, looks like the cellmo-headers stuff isnt in the QT SDK anymore Jul 15 15:15:52 Add that to the list of things that used to be public but are now gone :( Jul 15 15:16:05 oh wait let me try this download Jul 15 15:42:40 ok, gotta rebuild some X stuff on my gentoo box then I can try the download I found and see what happens when I run and install it Jul 15 15:46:15 jonwil: I hope ~50000 people have the SDK download that still has the good stuff Jul 15 15:46:43 is there an SDK download that is... better? lol Jul 15 15:46:44 I found a file that should have it Jul 15 15:46:56 if so, mirror it somewhere plz :P Jul 15 15:46:59 and i'll mirror it Jul 15 15:47:13 no, its just an old SDK that had some headers the newest one does not Jul 15 15:47:19 rm_work: [2011-07-15 17:03:32] bah, looks like the cellmo-headers stuff isnt in the QT SDK anymore Jul 15 15:47:30 I am going to do a compare between the 2 soon and see what has changed Jul 15 15:47:38 ah Jul 15 15:47:41 likely a bug? Jul 15 15:47:49 an ooopsie Jul 15 15:47:52 likely intentional Jul 15 15:47:55 or would they seriously remove that :/ Jul 15 15:48:03 yes Jul 15 15:48:05 an oppsie that they were there to begin with? Jul 15 15:48:05 It was probably an oopsie that they ended up in the SDK in the first place Jul 15 15:48:11 k Jul 15 15:48:12 and also I will find the right link to the old 1.0.x SDK Jul 15 15:48:13 rm_work: yes Jul 15 15:48:17 which is still available for download Jul 15 15:49:18 * DocScrutinizer recalls he has to trigger another wget job on his server with the big backbone Jul 15 15:52:50 ok, so to finish my info posts, I gotta check the mailing list archives for info, finish playing with the QT SDKs, identify any of the .debs I have with interesting bits in their documentation folders and finish checking the irc logs for any links that linked to interesting content Jul 15 15:53:03 i.e. all the stuff I and others have linked to in IRC but never linked anywhere else Jul 15 15:56:08 a daunting task Jul 15 15:56:29 not really, I have a text file containing the search results of the IRC logs for http:// Jul 15 15:56:36 sorted by username Jul 15 15:56:45 so I will sort though looking for relavent links Jul 15 15:56:46 :) Jul 15 15:57:32 hi, how match time take the option erase-mmc of the flasher on the n950 ? Jul 15 15:58:57 rlinfati: you might get better response on #harmattan Jul 15 16:00:42 h-e-n ftw. thanks to all involved Jul 15 16:02:58 Sicelo: yw Jul 15 16:03:06 Sicelo: hope you enjoy it Jul 15 16:05:23 bah, turns out the cellmo headers were NOT removed from the QT SDK Jul 15 16:05:30 I was just looking in the wrong place :( Jul 15 16:08:24 lol Jul 15 16:17:04 how i can login to ovi maps ? :S Jul 15 16:21:34 hey any idea how to clear all personal data off n900 without usb? Jul 15 16:21:54 like wipe it clean Jul 15 16:22:21 pauly, I think there is an option for that.. if not in seetings, then perhaps in file manager. Jul 15 16:23:07 sorting through these IRC logs is not that hard, it shouldn't be rocket science to eliminate large chunks of the logs just based on the domain Jul 15 16:23:12 flux: what about the rootfs side? Jul 15 16:23:15 pauly: you will need to use dd from rootshell to wipe mydocs and home partitions. Jul 15 16:23:28 e.g. anything from YouTube isn't going to be interesting Jul 15 16:23:37 any other option is not secure and the data may be restored. Jul 15 16:23:49 jonwil: unless it's EXTREMELY interesting Jul 15 16:23:52 in which case, it is :P Jul 15 16:24:13 notice that after wiping your device wont work and requires full reflash Jul 15 16:24:13 I mean interesting in the context of having source code/info that Maemo guys might care about Jul 15 16:24:21 why without usb? did it break? Jul 15 16:24:23 i've seen some useful stuff on youtube Jul 15 16:24:42 yeah its my old n900 Jul 15 16:24:44 but i guess it'd still be a good place to start Jul 15 16:24:54 yeah but you dont put source code on YouTube Jul 15 16:25:00 or tools or binaries Jul 15 16:25:06 i suppose :P Jul 15 16:25:13 I am only interested in source code or headers or things of that nature Jul 15 16:25:27 i.e. hidden stuff that may make Fremantle just that little bit more open Jul 15 16:25:30 i dont think there is anything interesting on rootfs but you may dd wipe that after the others to be sure. Jul 15 16:25:57 i want to sell on ebay Jul 15 16:25:58 * jonwil needs a command to say "take this file and remove all lines with in it Jul 15 16:26:12 grep -v Jul 15 16:26:18 broke usb and broke screen Jul 15 16:26:36 ouch, doing it blind! Jul 15 16:26:38 or do you have ssh? Jul 15 16:26:41 jonwil: cat file | grep -v 'this string' > newfile Jul 15 16:26:56 not blind im using tv out :) Jul 15 16:27:06 pauly: lol Jul 15 16:27:44 im backing up all my personal stuff using cp to the mmc1 sc card Jul 15 16:27:51 jonwil: can also do it with sed, but i hate remembering all the sed syntax Jul 15 16:27:58 then after that ill wipe it Jul 15 16:28:01 grep works Jul 15 16:28:37 i even hate remembering proper grep syntax to not need the "cat file | " Jul 15 16:29:02 you are joking? Jul 15 16:29:09 grep -whatever-opts "search" file Jul 15 16:29:11 itd just be grep -v 'string' file > newfile Jul 15 16:29:46 i sold my good condition n900 for $187 usd yay! Jul 15 16:30:05 hmm cheap Jul 15 16:38:12 I doubt I'll sell mine Jul 15 16:38:35 unless I can run a terminal on an N9 I'll be rather split Jul 15 16:39:15 i really want a refined n950 Jul 15 16:39:15 with MOAR SPACE Jul 15 16:46:38 the N9/N950 CPU&RAM in N900 would be a nice device Jul 15 16:47:06 lol ruskie/nid0, seriously ALWAYS forget the arg order for grep, it's like some sort of mental block... i remember all the args for tons of other complicated stuff, but never grep T_T Jul 15 16:47:11 * mgedmin would prefer the N900 software in the N950 hardware Jul 15 16:47:17 even though i prolly use grep more often Jul 15 16:47:22 rm_work, there is no order really Jul 15 16:47:31 grep "search" file Jul 15 16:47:36 you can even do: grep "whatever" file -params Jul 15 16:47:38 useful quick mnemonic: you pass only one regex to grep, but you can pass as many files as you like Jul 15 16:47:39 i always try grep file "search" first Jul 15 16:47:40 iirc Jul 15 16:47:58 and variable-numbered arguments are typically specified last Jul 15 16:48:02 mgedmin: ah, yeah, that makes sense :P we'll see if i remember Jul 15 16:48:21 pauly: for all that's reasonable I'd just do a rm -rf ~user/ Jul 15 16:48:27 i think it's carryover from programming Jul 15 16:48:49 for regex it's always "searchFunction(sourceString, patternString) Jul 15 16:48:50 " Jul 15 16:49:02 otherwise you'll brick the device, in a real sense of "bricking" as you don't have USB to reflash it Jul 15 16:49:36 can a device survive with an empty /home/user? Jul 15 16:49:55 I seem to recall horror stories from ancient n800 times where an error in /home/user/.profile would prevent the device from booting Jul 15 16:50:12 probably not Jul 15 16:50:17 doc: whats that do? Jul 15 16:51:01 There's actually a skeleton /home/user backup in /etc somewhere. If emmc is dead, the system creates a /home on the nand, and copies the bare bones $home to it Jul 15 16:51:25 pauly: it will delete all the stuff you stored to user's home, like widgets, highscores, SIP accounts, whatnot else Jul 15 16:51:54 Docscrutinizer: what about rootfs, do u think any personal data will be on there Jul 15 16:52:03 usually not Jul 15 16:52:32 Docscrutinizer: thanks Jul 15 16:52:45 anyone want an n900 with a broken screen / broken usb? Jul 15 16:53:14 anyway listen to ShadowJK - even deleting home/user/* may cause your device to not bootup anymore Jul 15 16:53:40 pauly: I think SpeedEvil might be interested Jul 15 16:53:44 ya thats all i need Jul 15 16:53:52 lol thanks doc Jul 15 16:54:06 pauly: Somewhat Jul 15 16:54:31 okay Jul 15 16:54:37 pauly: I've got one with a dodgy modem, and swappig it if I can get the USB working would be good Jul 15 16:55:26 speedevil: well i sent it to repair center they fixed usb then it broke again Jul 15 16:55:33 :/ Jul 15 16:56:04 speedevil: the port fell off but idk if u can just put one on Jul 15 16:56:15 It's generally not that simple. Jul 15 16:56:25 Usually as I understad it, pads will have been ripped off. Jul 15 16:56:39 It's generally a tricky task to solder it on. Jul 15 16:56:50 yup, but feasible Jul 15 16:56:59 for a bravehearted EE Jul 15 16:57:01 speedevil: like i said i think they fixed it once? Jul 15 16:57:10 Or maybe swapped the board. Jul 15 16:57:31 I've heard horror stories about people bringing n900s to repair centres and getting back n8s, since the n900s are no longer available Jul 15 16:57:31 speedevil: idk Jul 15 16:58:02 mgedmin: i actually sold my n900 to get an n8 Jul 15 16:58:10 :) Jul 15 16:58:26 so u have N8 already? Jul 15 16:58:42 not yet Jul 15 16:58:58 i sold it fot 187 usd on ebay Jul 15 17:15:05 W T F : http://www.blogger.com/static/v1/widgets/1976720479-widget_css_2_bundle.css Jul 15 17:16:08 conserving precious bandwidth bytes for the win Jul 15 18:34:24 needing help i tried using cp to copy data from a directory in mydocs too mmc1 Jul 15 18:34:51 but it didnt work Jul 15 18:36:02 when i cd to mmc1 and hit ls to see if anything transferd i got an input output error Jul 15 18:38:41 i have no usb im using tv out and touch panel dont work so i just got xterm and mmc1? Jul 15 18:39:31 you have the back cover on? Jul 15 18:39:55 ya Jul 15 18:40:39 dmesg shows anything? Jul 15 18:40:50 i dont know? Jul 15 18:41:24 errors, for example Jul 15 18:42:02 i got to turn it on Jul 15 18:42:22 is that the best way to get the data out of it? Jul 15 18:42:34 what else would work Jul 15 18:43:08 rsync Jul 15 18:43:11 how much data? Jul 15 18:43:38 if i remeber correctly like 8-12 gb Jul 15 18:43:49 i had all of our pics on it Jul 15 18:44:07 That's a couple of hours, so you won't get that off on wifi on one charge at least Jul 15 18:45:04 i know Jul 15 18:45:06 can you access the files from the UI? Jul 15 18:45:17 the mmc Jul 15 18:45:31 touch panel is crazy couldnt open file manager Jul 15 18:45:47 mmc1 is sd card? Jul 15 18:46:23 my only option was to open xterm using shift x ctrl Jul 15 18:47:22 ah Jul 15 18:47:39 I think mmc1 is emmc Jul 15 18:47:40 hangon Jul 15 18:47:52 0 is emmc Jul 15 18:48:01 that makes sence Jul 15 18:48:08 oops Jul 15 18:48:10 What does mount show Jul 15 18:48:13 is it mounted at all? Jul 15 18:48:15 mmc1 Jul 15 18:48:29 I'd first try tking the mmc out and formatting it in some PC Jul 15 18:48:34 its off now im charging batt using my good n900 Jul 15 18:48:40 then plugging it back inn ad see it it is automounted Jul 15 18:49:01 so i should try again using cp Jul 15 18:49:06 If you can charge teh battery a couple of times, I'd not bother Jul 15 18:49:12 I'd just apt-get install rsync Jul 15 18:49:18 then just use that to copy over mydocs Jul 15 18:49:51 ya but wouldnt it get messed up Jul 15 18:50:02 since all data wouldnt transfer Jul 15 18:50:07 on 1 charge Jul 15 18:55:59 ? Jul 15 19:03:54 No - that's the nice bit about rsync Jul 15 19:04:03 It only transfers new bits of file. Jul 15 19:04:05 s Jul 15 19:04:20 oh Jul 15 19:04:31 i was reading on wiki about it Jul 15 19:04:39 mmc0 is the first one detected Jul 15 19:05:27 ? Jul 15 19:06:03 hi. what's the name of the suite of applications for bluetooth monitoring? Jul 15 19:06:12 that's some weird stuff going on with mmc renaming during boot, that afects naming when or when not you have a uSD inserted Jul 15 19:06:43 some parts of kernel still refer to uSD as mmc0 after hte rename Jul 15 19:08:06 im a linux newb so i guess if i just cd to /media and see what directory is there? Jul 15 19:08:36 yeah Jul 15 19:08:41 you'll see both, I believe Jul 15 19:09:01 ohhh Jul 15 19:09:08 wait, no, eMMC is mounted on /home/user/MyDocs, not in /media Jul 15 19:09:09 sorry Jul 15 19:09:33 im looking for sd card Jul 15 19:10:46 google tells me /media/mmc1 is the right place Jul 15 19:11:41 uSD is under /media Jul 15 19:11:50 yes Jul 15 19:12:35 so if i want to see size of Mydocs to see if it will fit on 16gb sd car ill type du /Mydocs Jul 15 19:12:42 cool Jul 15 19:12:44 but when you look up e.g. dmesg errors you might find uSD referred to as mmc0 Jul 15 19:12:45 linux is easy Jul 15 19:13:31 on my n900 /dev/mmcblk0 is the builtin eMMC; I've never plugged in an sd card Jul 15 19:13:49 thanks Jul 15 19:13:57 du -hsx MyDocs might even be nicer Jul 15 19:14:16 whats -hsx flag? Jul 15 19:14:33 mgedmin: yes, if you boot with no uSD in, then eMMC is mmc0 Jul 15 19:15:31 I used to build and sign package with dpkg-buildpackage -sa -rfakeroot -k. I think i lost the keys when i reinstalled scratchbox. Now extras builder is rejecting my package. Jul 15 19:15:33 -h is human-readable, s is "only top directory shown", and x is "don't follow links to other filesystems" Jul 15 19:15:42 Builder says - "gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found" Jul 15 19:16:03 How do I export the new public key and where do I update it on garage? Jul 15 19:16:05 probably x is useless for MyDocs Jul 15 19:16:38 i dont know if i need s since i need subdirectorys Jul 15 19:16:58 you don't want to get them listed though, I guess Jul 15 19:17:08 ? Jul 15 19:17:24 oh Jul 15 19:17:33 to show Jul 15 19:17:33 without -s you get *many* lines of output Jul 15 19:17:40 cool Jul 15 19:18:00 thanks so much Jul 15 19:18:03 yw Jul 15 19:18:11 so just rsync all the data Jul 15 19:21:32 what was that trick to avoid swap bringing large copies to a grinding halt? echo 0 >/proc/swappiness or sth? Jul 15 19:22:02 ShadowJK: ^^^ Jul 15 19:22:35 SpeedEvil: you might recall as well ^^^ Jul 15 19:23:21 Don't Jul 15 19:23:34 rsync - locally - bypasses it Jul 15 19:23:59 ooh it does? Jul 15 19:24:25 * DocScrutinizer suggests >> echo 30 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness << Jul 15 19:24:45 *might* help Jul 15 19:24:51 thats what swappolube does too right? Jul 15 19:24:57 SpeedEvil do i need to set any options with rsync or just rsync /MyDocs media/mmc1 Jul 15 19:24:58 yup Jul 15 19:25:50 I used to build and sign package with dpkg-buildpackage -sa -rfakeroot -k. I think i lost the keys when i reinstalled scratchbox. Now extras builder is rejecting my package. Jul 15 19:26:00 Docscrutinizer - Any thoughts ^^^ ? Jul 15 19:26:16 pauly: yes - that works Jul 15 19:26:20 sorry, no idea Jul 15 19:26:46 Scifig: you do not need to sign packages Jul 15 19:26:51 Still stuck in the UK. Jul 15 19:26:52 Bleh Jul 15 19:26:56 how are you uploading them? Jul 15 19:27:03 GeneralAntilles: ah well, monday afternoon then =) Jul 15 19:27:04 pauly: you'll notice the / is odd at head of MyDocs Jul 15 19:27:12 javispedro, Extras assistant (web based) Jul 15 19:27:16 javispedro, kill me. Jul 15 19:27:43 Scifig: so, no need to sign packages at all. Jul 15 19:27:53 Scifig: if you want to, generate a new key, etc. But only uberparanoids or geeks do that. Jul 15 19:27:59 (like me =) ) Jul 15 19:28:15 ~kill GeneralAntilles Jul 15 19:28:15 * infobot shoots a hyper-charged anti-meson gun at GeneralAntilles Jul 15 19:29:03 javispedro, I stopped signing after the error came up. Don't know whether it is recommended to sign or not. I guess the standard commands on maemo.org wiki included -k i guess. Thats why i started doing that Jul 15 19:29:42 DocScrutinizer: i dont understand? Jul 15 19:30:05 Will there be any possible issues with aegis with signing/not signing once there is a repo for harmattan? Jul 15 19:30:09 Scifig: well, no need to. If you want to continue doing it, then google for "debian packcage signing" or the like Jul 15 19:30:18 Scifig: nope Jul 15 19:30:45 GeneralAntilles: T_T Jul 15 19:30:55 javispedro, Thanks Jul 15 19:31:10 GeneralAntilles: I just hope it eventually LEAVES the UK T_T Jul 15 19:31:29 it'll probably move on saturday Jul 15 19:31:52 pauly: if you're "lucky" and SpeedEvil is wrong (he usually isn't) then odds are your copy/rsync will get *very* slow after a while. the echo 30>... will maybe avoid this Jul 15 19:31:53 GeneralAntilles, Does DHL work on Saturdays, or is it just my dream? Jul 15 19:31:54 Jaffa's padding his collection Jul 15 19:32:13 Scifig, don't think they do. Jul 15 19:32:17 DHL works on Saturdays, couriers do not. Jul 15 19:32:23 "business day" seems to be the wording. Jul 15 19:32:37 Monday it is then. Jul 15 19:32:40 DocScrutinizer: i was talking about the / being odd on mydocs? Jul 15 19:32:55 aah /MyDocs doesn't exist Jul 15 19:33:08 oh Jul 15 19:34:07 \ Jul 15 19:34:18 /home/user/Mydocs Jul 15 19:40:54 DocScrutinizer, echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness; echo 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/nr_requests Jul 15 19:41:25 ShadowJK: thanks Jul 15 19:41:26 the swappiness things adds some jitter/stutter to some things Jul 15 19:42:40 better than a freeze, on cp ~user/MyDocs/really-huge-file /media/mmc1/ Jul 15 19:48:47 how goes the N950 DocScrutinizer ? Jul 15 19:48:52 also do mmcblk1 in that echo Jul 15 19:49:04 both mmcblk0 and mmcblk1 Jul 15 19:50:59 pabs3: well, not my favourite device. Nothing new after all, knew that beforehand Jul 15 19:52:33 ShadowJK: thanks, missed that bit Jul 15 19:57:54 doc: Speedevil: hey i get a skipped directory MyDocs Jul 15 19:58:04 when trying to use rsync Jul 15 20:32:04 * javispedro ponders what to ask when they ask me "where is unistd.h in Windows" Jul 15 20:32:11 s/what to ask/what to answer/ Jul 15 20:33:19 c:\cygwin\usr\include\ :) Jul 15 20:33:46 good point. Jul 15 20:33:46 reply "lol" Jul 15 20:33:46 (no i dont use windows, that was only a guess) Jul 15 20:34:09 actually, I usually get questions the opposite direction, so this one kinda surprised me. Jul 15 20:34:12 there is a copy in wine's msvcrt dir, so presumably ms msvcrt has one too Jul 15 20:45:56 the remaining brainteasers at n9seconds.com are very interesting Jul 15 21:17:06 GAN900: Never heard it called that before Jul 15 21:19:40 Jaffa, your pile of N950s? Jul 15 21:20:45 GAN900: The collective noun for N950s is "murder" ;-) Jul 15 21:25:53 hi all, i wonder if anyone can help. my ubuntu pc doesn't seem to be able to see any of my photos on my maemo n900 over bluetooth. i've searched around a bit and am stumped. Jul 15 21:26:57 * Jaffa has had lots of problems with his N900 and Bluetooth interoperability. But without solution (apart from, get N950) Jul 15 21:27:09 there's an n950? Jul 15 21:28:01 Not for normal people :) Jul 15 21:28:10 Only devs, and they're all allocated. Jul 15 21:28:17 oh hello SpeedEvil where do I know you from? Jul 15 21:28:23 openmoko? Jul 15 21:28:43 Which is an annoying decision, as it's a platform with a keyboard, unlike the schedules mass production version. Jul 15 21:28:43 yes Jul 15 21:28:55 also perhaps openstreetmap a bit? Jul 15 21:29:04 tim_abell: any files visible? Jul 15 21:29:06 i guess i should expect to see some familiar nicks round here Jul 15 21:29:15 yes, everything except the dcim folder :-/ Jul 15 21:29:30 weird.. Jul 15 21:29:44 I've never actually tried that - I diddn't think it worked. Jul 15 21:29:59 hi tim_abell Jul 15 21:30:06 Maybe this was somethign that diddn't work in earlier PR's Jul 15 21:30:44 /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM/ ? Jul 15 21:30:46 it was almost perfect, pairing was beautiful easy and seamless. right click the bluetooth icon, browse files, up they pop Jul 15 21:31:12 yeah that one. shows as "Camera" in the phone file manager, but the console gives the lie to that Jul 15 21:31:23 Also - you've not got the device plugged in? Jul 15 21:31:40 well, to the mains adapter for power, but not to the pc Jul 15 21:31:40 If you have, it will unmount it if you've got mass storage eabled. Jul 15 21:31:47 ah - not the case then Jul 15 21:32:47 you checked if BT does insert some similar lies like "Camera"? Jul 15 21:33:22 tim@atom:~/.gvfs/Deep thought $ ls Jul 15 21:33:22 Audio clips Data Documents Images Memory card Video clips Jul 15 21:33:22 maybe now it's "Pictures" or "Images" or whatever? Jul 15 21:33:43 it does actually insert "Camera" Jul 15 21:33:48 but it's empty Jul 15 21:34:09 Data/DCIM :-) Jul 15 21:34:45 on the phone "ls /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM/" shows all my jpgs Jul 15 21:36:01 hang on the phone went to sleep, misbehaving now Jul 15 21:37:54 My N810 went misbehaving browsing photos on N900 over BT :-) Jul 15 21:38:39 My BT is "gone" on my desktop :-o Jul 15 21:39:03 used to have that systray icon when plugging in the BT dongle... Jul 15 21:39:38 i bought a dlink bluetooth dongle dbt-122 if i remember correctly, and it works fab on ubuntu. couldn't get it work on windows for the life of me Jul 15 21:42:51 * ShadowJK streams mp3 from N900 to N810 over BT Jul 15 21:43:06 N810 is pretty darn good at communication Jul 15 21:43:07 now that's cool Jul 15 21:43:13 Jul 15 23:29:58 halley bluetoothd[21752]: Can't load plugin /usr/lib/bluetooth/plugins/netlink.so: /usr/lib/bluetooth/plugins/netlink.so: undefined symbol: debug Jul 15 21:43:15 Jul 15 23:29:58 halley bluetoothd[21752]: Parsing /etc/bluetooth/network.conf failed: No such file or directory Jul 15 21:43:17 :-/ Jul 15 21:43:19 well, if you ignore the missing cellular Jul 15 21:43:46 you could leave the n810 plugged into your hifi stack which is what i would do Jul 15 21:44:29 nah, N810 audio output is poor Jul 15 21:44:45 you can even hear the noise floor in the built in speakers Jul 15 21:44:52 oh shame. i'm pleased with the n900's headphone out Jul 15 21:46:02 The speakers in N810 are awesome, and makes up somewhat for the noisy amp Jul 15 21:51:39 hrmph browse isn't working at all now. brb going to restart Jul 15 21:52:00 Seems to be using as much powe to play from BT as from mSD Jul 15 21:58:20 130-140 mA with screen locked and cpu locked to 125MHz Jul 15 21:59:08 right, thanks for the tips, my photos are indeed in data/dcim Jul 15 21:59:10 hurrah Jul 15 21:59:15 ls Jul 15 22:31:56 i just had an idea Jul 15 22:32:25 why not use the blank initfs to store an initramfs that sets up encryption on the N900? Jul 15 22:41:15 * DocScrutinizer wonders if NOLO would somehow make use of anything on initfs partition, e.g. by passing the according parameters to kernel Jul 15 22:44:20 NOLO is the one that should load the initfs, so either it is already loading it and passing garbage to the kernel which ignores it, or it is not doing anything and thus never will do anythin. Jul 15 22:48:00 isnt initfs on the n900 blank? Jul 15 22:48:24 yes Jul 15 22:49:16 hmm, i wonder if we could make an initfs Jul 15 22:49:21 javispedro: I thought kernel would load the initrd Jul 15 22:49:44 even better, why not boot a ramdisk for the fastest boots ever? Jul 15 22:49:46 kernel doesn't know how to mmc Jul 15 22:49:53 aah Jul 15 22:49:53 not at that boot stage at least. Jul 15 22:49:55 hmm Jul 15 22:50:19 so how does that work? Jul 15 22:50:30 if it was working - say, on N810 Jul 15 22:50:31 s/mmc/onenand/ ;P Jul 15 22:51:21 I thought sth's odd, didn't really spot the mmc though ;-) Jul 15 22:51:26 well, NOLO loads contents of initrd partition on contiguos memory area, somehow passes pointer to this area to kernel, kernel mounts it, loads modules et all from it. Jul 15 22:52:07 doesn't it need uncompressing as well? Jul 15 22:52:29 potentially, but kernel can uncompress a memory area. Jul 15 22:52:40 in fact, on x86 kernel uncompresses itself (dunno on ARM) Jul 15 22:54:56 hmm, a somewhat loosely related question: would a dd if=/dev/mtd3 of=vmlinux result in a bootable maemo kernel file? Jul 15 22:55:31 dunno (for the same reasons dd if=/dev/mtd5 of=... would not get you a flashable ubifs) Jul 15 22:55:49 I see Jul 15 22:56:17 except from that, the format is suitable? Jul 15 22:56:30 technically yes.. Jul 15 22:56:47 then again, you could just dd the file back on Jul 15 22:56:57 and is that the same format you feed to flasher-3.5 --kernel-only ? Jul 15 22:56:57 but for bad blocks reasons, please dont Jul 15 22:57:15 DocScrutinizer: it's a good question -- I'd say yes. Jul 15 22:57:40 because I do not think there's any extra "transformation" done by flasher. Jul 15 22:58:17 I'm thinking about a maemo on uSD, looking like a meego Jul 15 22:58:53 on diablo times this was called cloning to SD Jul 15 22:59:02 :-D Jul 15 22:59:22 however some people tried on early n900 times and found that some telephony stuff was crapping itself when run from sd Jul 15 22:59:35 what were the pitfalls? Jul 15 22:59:35 (iiirc it was pin entry dialog or the likes :) ) Jul 15 22:59:46 the adventures should be detailed in TMO Jul 15 22:59:55 eeew Jul 15 23:00:06 telephony going mad Jul 15 23:00:13 wtf? Jul 15 23:00:46 anyway for a really nice rescue system telephony isn't exactly mandatory Jul 15 23:01:26 I just have a hard time figuring how to produce a kernel file on-device Jul 15 23:01:44 any SSU package should come with one Jul 15 23:01:51 kernel package, obvsly. Jul 15 23:01:59 (for, say, a package consisting of a scriptfile to prepare such uSD) Jul 15 23:02:12 hmm, of course :-D Jul 15 23:02:31 i get time to time "Error stating file '/home/marek/.gvfs': Transport endpoint is not connected." if i want to open my home directory. Mostly helps full restart. Wat is it? Jul 15 23:03:10 an error msg from your desktop - first instance? Jul 15 23:03:12 who are you and what are you doing on this channel? Jul 15 23:03:39 oh - wrong channel Jul 15 23:03:44 ;P Jul 15 23:04:21 that's gnome error message. Jul 15 23:04:40 gnome virtual file system Jul 15 23:05:00 some abomination Jul 15 23:05:23 though they were just copying kde Jul 15 23:05:55 mhm Jul 15 23:06:27 I already forgot what for it's used anyway Jul 15 23:06:53 it's another layer of abstraction -- between a plain dir and, say, a FTP server. Jul 15 23:11:45 well, gvfs is different from the old gnome vfs (redesigned and moved into the glib family I think)... and ~/.gvfs is a fuse mount point that gives access to the mounted virtual filesystems without needing glib/gnome libs Jul 15 23:12:20 kornbluth acted up on me, sorry Jul 16 00:24:44 http://www.thevash.com/gallery.html Jul 16 00:24:46 neat Jul 16 00:24:49 visual hashes Jul 16 00:24:56 data -> abstract art Jul 16 00:34:40 not my kind of hash Jul 16 00:39:05 any of you guys know where one can purchase USB->uUSB coiled cable on its own? I need something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00582FQHC/ref=asc_df_B00582FQHC3568331?smid=AKBGN3C3XNN03&tag=pr-syn24-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B00582FQHC without the car charger/adapter head Jul 16 00:43:26 Hi guys Jul 16 00:44:25 hi Jul 16 00:45:31 Can someone tell me what is DMA? Isn't it about the sound in N900? Jul 16 00:46:16 where did you read about DMA? Jul 16 00:46:51 well it's hogging my n900 Jul 16 00:48:01 and I saw it with powertop. I did a quick search in google and read that something related with "alsa mixer (DMA)" on a post, that's why im wondering Jul 16 00:48:51 http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=usb%20%20coiled&=&_sacat=See-All-Categories psycho_oreos Jul 16 00:49:11 afaik DMA is a way of how BIOS/kernel interfaces with devices, it isn't directly associated with sound, that's speaking of general PC-wise Jul 16 00:49:17 SpeedEvil, ta Jul 16 00:49:34 Also - you may try tightly winding a USB cable round a pencil, and placing in oven at 100C for an hour Jul 16 00:49:42 remove and leave to cool Jul 16 00:50:01 psycho_oreos: oh, thanks Jul 16 00:50:52 not a bad idea but I only have one usable USB->uUSB cable to play with. I need something like a coiled type for the car and probably preferable to be separate from the original nokia cable I have :) Jul 16 00:51:41 It seems like something related to kernel is kind of screwed up. IRQ: 12 | Activity: 2133 | Type: INTC | DMA. that's for sure very weird Jul 16 00:52:17 Sound is going to do a _lot_ of iterrupts Jul 16 00:52:22 It's pretty much unavoidable Jul 16 00:52:31 the FIFO into the ADC is tiny Jul 16 00:54:15 Also - powertop is at best a hint. Jul 16 00:54:39 And relying on any number at all as a proxy for power use without understanding is prone to failure. Jul 16 00:55:03 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_Power_Consumption Jul 16 00:55:28 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management Jul 16 00:55:29 rather Jul 16 00:55:35 stupid case sensitivity Jul 16 00:56:21 powertop is nice for figuring out power use during standby/idle. That means screen off immediately after starting powertop, and keeping screen off and not touching anything for the 10+30 seconds that powertop does measurement. Jul 16 00:56:26 Then you could pastebin it for us Jul 16 00:56:42 That's what i did Jul 16 00:56:52 I don't see a pastebin link Jul 16 00:56:56 Sure i can put it in pastebin, holdon Jul 16 00:57:32 Yes you're right, sorry but it's a bit late here and my brain is in powersaving mode. Slow reaction eh :p Jul 16 00:58:20 Sound it's quite irrelevant as to 'wakeups' or 'interrupts' as the CPU is on 100% of the time at 250MHz Jul 16 00:59:11 I guess sleepanalyzer and souch would, if running, keep sound & accelerometers active at all times? Jul 16 00:59:28 probably Jul 16 00:59:46 Other than that, sound should be idle most of the time Jul 16 01:00:15 wouldn't sleepanalyser only probes the accelerometer at set intervals rather than leaving it on permanently? Jul 16 01:00:31 If it only probed set intervals it'd miss events Jul 16 01:00:45 http://pastebin.com/BNQrzSud here it is. I had sleepanalyzer installed a long time ago, but removed it also a long time ago before this battery drain issue. Jul 16 01:02:01 afaik sleepanalyser can be set to do a sampling rate, I thought that was something to do with probing the accelerometer at set intervals. Or maybe the data is analysed and ten averaged during the intervals and accelerometer is stuck permanently on? :) Jul 16 01:02:19 s/ten/then/ Jul 16 01:02:19 psycho_oreos meant: afaik sleepanalyser can be set to do a sampling rate, I thought that was something to do with probing the accelerometer at set intervals. Or maybe the data is analysed and then averaged during the intervals and accelerometer is stuck permanently on? :) Jul 16 01:02:32 RiD_, looks weird. Is charger connected? Jul 16 01:03:29 Also things like USBHOST in state RET... that's exceedingly weird Jul 16 01:03:30 oh damn i pasted the wrong log :( Jul 16 01:04:11 that one was with charger connected, i did one without it a few minutes ago. Sorry, my brain isn't working properly Jul 16 01:05:26 ShadowJK: accelerometer should be driven in a IRQ based way, so there's no meaning in "keeping it active" Jul 16 01:05:44 Anything with charger connected is bogus - it causes lots of wakeups Jul 16 01:05:48 IF driver and app are built correctly Jul 16 01:06:09 If you can do what you want to do without streaming data :) Jul 16 01:06:22 http://pastebin.com/KbDy0ckw that's the one without anything plugged on the phone. Connected to wifi and gsm only Jul 16 01:06:46 And screen was blanked :) Jul 16 01:06:47 Doing what? Jul 16 01:07:39 DSS, CAM, USBHOST are in RET instead of OFF. usbhost should always be off, because the usbhost part of the SOC isn't even connected to anything Jul 16 01:07:56 * ShadowJK 'd be inclined to blame powerkernel or whatever it is... Jul 16 01:08:24 what USBHOST are you referring to? there are 2 possible provider of that functionality Jul 16 01:09:00 ds3, there are two usb controllers, a host controller and the otg controller, the musb otg controller is under "PER" I think? Jul 16 01:09:28 RiD_, hm, what does plain top look like? Jul 16 01:09:43 there are actually 3 USB controllers Jul 16 01:10:10 ShadowJK: what do you exactly mean with plaintop? Jul 16 01:10:13 2 is useable at any one time :/ Jul 16 01:10:18 RiD_, "top" Jul 16 01:12:14 right now pulseaudio and browserd are the only ones using more cpu.pulseaudio around 10% and browserd 15-20%. I'm using the browser to chat here Jul 16 01:12:34 hm.. Jul 16 01:12:39 the phone is in silent mode and the volume bar is set to 0, if thatbs worth mentioning Jul 16 01:13:46 I got nuttin on RET status here. CAM and USBHOST should be OFF Jul 16 01:14:16 I'm missing the CPU freq C states Jul 16 01:14:37 did you cut then to hide you are overclocking? ;-D Jul 16 01:15:13 haha Jul 16 01:16:26 I didn't copied the whole thing? whoops. Yes I'm overclocking @700MHz Jul 16 01:16:27 well they seem to be meaningless on titans kernel iirc .. or something else goes wrong when overclocking :P Jul 16 01:17:02 powertop gets confused on the additional freq Jul 16 01:17:28 ah ok Jul 16 01:17:46 probably like a webservice when scanning a html page that has changed Jul 16 01:17:55 :) Jul 16 01:18:15 C0 | 92.2% | | 1150 MHz | nan% | Jul 16 01:18:15 C1 | 1.4% | 0.2ms | Jul 16 01:18:15 C2 | 6.4% | 0.8ms | Jul 16 01:18:29 ... i am definately not overclocking to 1150Mhz Jul 16 01:18:32 now OUCH Jul 16 01:18:38 yeah Jul 16 01:18:43 DocScrutinizer, did you eventually get the apt-get to work with harmatten-dev repos? Jul 16 01:18:47 Anyways the phone never gets to C2 or C3 state Jul 16 01:18:59 but C0 92% is correct nevertheless I guess Jul 16 01:19:05 RiD_: usb connected? Jul 16 01:19:22 DocScrutinizer: yes just installing some software it was under load :) Jul 16 01:19:30 97% on C1 and 3% on C0 Jul 16 01:19:49 RiD_: what apps do you have running? Jul 16 01:19:51 aah Jul 16 01:20:00 cehteh: the last pastebin that I linked didn't have the usb plugged Jul 16 01:20:05 (including widgets, power monitors and all) Jul 16 01:20:24 cehteh: should show up in powertop, no? Jul 16 01:20:37 yes forgot Jul 16 01:20:46 cehteh: only browser and xterm. OMweather widget and ussd widget, both "manual". I got BatteryEye installed Jul 16 01:20:53 well, probably only wakeups Jul 16 01:21:08 close browser, man! Jul 16 01:21:29 and batteryeye EEEEEK Jul 16 01:21:45 it's notorious to hog all it can hog Jul 16 01:21:45 I'm using it to chat here xD Jul 16 01:22:26 really? .. i deinstalled and installed BatteryGraph long ago (more features) but batteryeye worked Jul 16 01:22:39 I mean *batteryGraph Jul 16 01:22:46 I'd consider battery eye a battery stress test with built in monitoring ;-P Jul 16 01:22:50 DAMN I'm so sleepy Jul 16 01:22:51 same Jul 16 01:23:01 I mixed wifiEye name with BatteryGraph, LOL Jul 16 01:23:09 also running powertop over ssh when the display is turned off gives better idle stats Jul 16 01:23:12 actually I'm not sure which of both or even both are evil Jul 16 01:23:39 DocScrutinizer: batterygraph doesnt wake much, ok its python so it takes some memory Jul 16 01:23:59 battery-eye doesn't wake much either, atleast it didn't when I had it installed Jul 16 01:24:08 yes both worked for me Jul 16 01:24:13 one of those cute apps refreshed graphs like 10/s Jul 16 01:24:21 even when hidden Jul 16 01:24:30 Hmmm, I guess im screwed :| Jul 16 01:24:55 batterygraph runs a daemon, dunno how often it polls but i rarely see it waking up Jul 16 01:25:24 the daemon pushes into a sqlite .. and the gui only displays the data from the sqlite .. if i get that right Jul 16 01:26:13 I never installed any of those (I got better tools ;-D), but it's been notorious one of them hogged battery via CPU load Jul 16 01:26:49 maybe you only tried them when they where new and that got eventually fixed? Jul 16 01:27:00 pushes into SQLite, WHAT? Jul 16 01:27:06 LOL Jul 16 01:27:07 http://pastebin.com/eDGybJLz .. btw, mine on idle .. skype sux :P Jul 16 01:27:50 Everybody seems to use sqlite as a backing store for random datastreams. sqlite is a major (if not *THE*) contributor to "stutter" :) Jul 16 01:27:51 at least yours still managed a whooping 0.2% on C3 Jul 16 01:28:04 err i thought i deinstalled applock .. it doesnt work yet :P Jul 16 01:28:49 mhm doing a reboot .. a lot packages fail to stop when removed poor packaging Jul 16 01:28:52 waking up sqlite db daemon process every xx seconds, maybe every second - just brilliant Jul 16 01:28:57 peerhoodd << wtf is that? Jul 16 01:29:06 DocScrutinizer, there's no db daemon Jul 16 01:29:10 yeah Jul 16 01:29:19 whatever, it's a huge machine Jul 16 01:29:23 sqlite can be very well tuned for embedded usage Jul 16 01:29:29 cehteh, lol Jul 16 01:29:36 cehteh: BS Jul 16 01:29:38 (for a sql database ...) Jul 16 01:29:51 no i am not fanboy i dont like sql :P Jul 16 01:29:57 you don't want to do a database operation for each log point Jul 16 01:30:01 but really its better than all the rest Jul 16 01:30:02 no matter what Jul 16 01:30:17 how many points per second? Jul 16 01:30:19 write the crap to a file, done Jul 16 01:30:29 The best tuning you could do is make a LD_PRELOAD .so file which makes fsync() and fdatasync() into a NOP, that'd reduce latency/stutter by about 1 second for each time an app prods a sqlite db :) Jul 16 01:30:41 DocScrutinizer: you can wakes/commits off, it basically is then just some api to write data to a file which speaks sql Jul 16 01:30:58 cehteh: yeah Jul 16 01:31:07 doesnt really matter if you do that in python or sqlite .. :P Jul 16 01:31:08 the last 3 words make it Jul 16 01:31:15 GeneralAntilles: still in the UK rogl Jul 16 01:31:16 *rofl Jul 16 01:31:32 but for the gui it has some advantage as you can easily query things you are interested in Jul 16 01:31:38 Last I heard they had "fixed" sqlite for Harmattan. But they said that about tracker too.. Jul 16 01:31:42 cehteh: you know how a database works, do you? with primary index and whatnot Jul 16 01:31:44 you dont need to read an parse a huge file Jul 16 01:31:46 * javispedro used sqlite to store gps points in his tracklog app, and worked very well, but this was ~2 seconds per point Jul 16 01:31:56 DocScrutinizer: yes i know how sqlite works Jul 16 01:32:38 * ShadowJK remembers when firefox used to hang 3 seconds for each letter you typed into the address bar, because of sqlite :-) Jul 16 01:33:00 javispedro: then probably GPS power consumption made CPU load to maintain a dbms negligible Jul 16 01:33:19 DocScrutinizer: is weigths more than just appending to a file sure .. but if you want to expire old data or selected data from a logfile and want to filter over it and seletively enable/disable things then it has some advantages Jul 16 01:33:42 so what Jul 16 01:33:45 there is 'lite' in its name for a reason Jul 16 01:33:47 I'm going to do a powertop log without browser and wifi Jul 16 01:33:55 The cpu load is probably irrelevant. The random I/O load and fsync/fdatasync requests coming from dbms type things are worse Jul 16 01:34:08 if you think you have to do that realtime, then your design really needs a thorough rethink Jul 16 01:34:28 yeah i hope that the programmer turned fsyncs off for this Jul 16 01:34:36 PRAGMA synchronous = 0, journal_mode = memory; Jul 16 01:34:36 HAHA Jul 16 01:34:37 they didn't Jul 16 01:34:56 see javispedro Jul 16 01:35:35 yeah, sure it's the fsync that kills battery, and I subsumed it under CPU load Jul 16 01:35:43 iirc for Harmattan they were making/investigating/using a mode where it only wrote to journal (on disk) :-) Jul 16 01:35:43 not really correct Jul 16 01:35:44 anyway batterygraph is no much a battery eater here ... Jul 16 01:36:09 Because a journal is cheap to write Jul 16 01:36:21 do the "write to journal" manually, explicitly. That's called apend-to-file Jul 16 01:36:24 and read seeks are "free" on flash Jul 16 01:36:25 but it wakes a lot hardware Jul 16 01:36:36 not really true Jul 16 01:36:47 compared to writes they are :-) Jul 16 01:37:04 even do that to a ram buffer that you write out to the file every 512byte only Jul 16 01:37:06 you have about 200 read IOPS and 4 write IOPS :) Jul 16 01:37:09 from a wear and speed perspective maybe .. but from a power viewpoint no Jul 16 01:37:30 you have to go over a lot layers, wake a lot circruits Jul 16 01:38:18 plus cache poisoning and buffering issues Jul 16 01:38:24 OMG now we are from battery logger doing BS to free seeks on flash Jul 16 01:38:40 note that fsync() on /home on N900 should do basically nothing Jul 16 01:38:41 :) Jul 16 01:38:49 as commit is forced every second either way Jul 16 01:38:59 * cehteh deinstalls batterygraph .. i dont use it anyway anymore Jul 16 01:39:08 so is that any better when it's forced? Jul 16 01:39:09 (obviously if you call fsync() more than once per second you will do "damage") Jul 16 01:39:26 javispedro: not here :) Jul 16 01:39:37 ah right, where do we disable that crap? Jul 16 01:39:41 commit=600 laptop_mode=600 Jul 16 01:39:51 i cant find mount ops for the life of me Jul 16 01:39:58 and not on the n950, fwiw. Jul 16 01:40:17 writing every second isnt exactly ideal Jul 16 01:40:31 peerhoodd << so wtf is that? Jul 16 01:40:35 it depends. Jul 16 01:40:50 I'm back :) http://pastebin.com/cGjrP242 Only connected to GSM, silent mode. @700Mhz Jul 16 01:41:16 javispedro, dirty_expire is longer I think? Jul 16 01:41:27 RiD__ : i can't feel 700MHz, 750 MHz is more like it Jul 16 01:42:16 Hurrian: I"m fine with 700Mhz :) Jul 16 01:42:29 ShadowJK: do not have the n900 around ;) Jul 16 01:42:45 something is *severely* wrong with your device, RiD__ Jul 16 01:43:09 (and somehow I'm sure it's related to OC =) ) Jul 16 01:43:25 RiD__: disable overclocking, use the nokia stock power profile .. and try again Jul 16 01:43:52 RiD__: maybe remove sim .. and memory card Jul 16 01:44:00 "time sync" at idle device just took 1.1 sec :) Jul 16 01:44:30 note that I have no idea how it fsync works in ubifs Jul 16 01:44:35 which you invoked by doing sync =) Jul 16 01:45:15 being a journal based fs, an fsync() there probably does even more damage than ext3, but this is just a uneducated guess. Jul 16 01:45:54 as in wear or you mean filesystem consistency? Jul 16 01:46:13 as in "stuff it has to do" Jul 16 01:46:15 cehteh: in other words, i should uninstall power kernel, remove SIM and run powertop after the phone gets completely turned on (without the tracker messing around). Is it? Jul 16 01:46:23 which means both wear and performance Jul 16 01:46:51 * DocScrutinizer wonders if somebody messed with USBHOST in defconfig of powerkernel Jul 16 01:47:01 RiD__: not necessary deinstall the power kernel .. just keep default frequency and power profile and dont set new ones (remove your configuration) Jul 16 01:47:06 you probably want to install normal kernel instead of uninstalling power kernel... I forget which one "bricked" devices Jul 16 01:47:15 well and measure when usb is not plugged in Jul 16 01:47:27 ShadowJK: haha Jul 16 01:47:53 uninstalling kernels is a really stupid idea, as you get exactly that: a device without kernel Jul 16 01:47:57 ;-P Jul 16 01:48:07 javispedro, iostat attributes atleast 75% of it to emmc :-) Jul 16 01:48:08 stopping skype and other such services is also a good idea Jul 16 01:48:30 skype is off :p Jul 16 01:48:40 the high i2c interrupt count is curious Jul 16 01:48:56 hmm, i feel really tempted to find a spare N900 and try to replace the SoC Jul 16 01:49:08 same package - BGA 515 Jul 16 01:49:10 haha batterygraoh doesnt like to be removed .. Jul 16 01:49:18 voltage is OK (0.8-1.35V) Jul 16 01:49:33 POP is ball-compatible Jul 16 01:49:41 RiD__: stock battery? Jul 16 01:49:50 cehteh: Yes Jul 16 01:50:03 force remove then Jul 16 01:50:38 ShadowJK: the mmc1 IRQs are way more curious Jul 16 01:51:06 not sure if that's emmc or usd, before or after renaming Jul 16 01:51:27 as i saied, try without sim and memory card Jul 16 01:51:27 cehteh: default kernel preset loaded Jul 16 01:51:30 that's eMMC Jul 16 01:51:41 mmc1 is µsd here Jul 16 01:51:59 as uSD is controller 0 so it can get boot Jul 16 01:52:10 cehteh: nah, no way Jul 16 01:52:18 I will do it now. see you guys soon, if i dont fall in sleep Jul 16 01:52:23 maybe in your mounttab Jul 16 01:52:23 Doc, isn't uSD physically on mmc0, and emmc on mmc1? Jul 16 01:52:23 from linux i mean Jul 16 01:52:34 the phone just does some weird switching? Jul 16 01:52:36 yes thats what doc says Jul 16 01:52:46 i was talking bout linux naming Jul 16 01:52:52 Hurrian: indeed, pragmao/1 error Jul 16 01:52:54 so prolly we both are right Jul 16 01:53:28 hmm, maemo community should probably get together and try to mod the N900 Jul 16 01:53:35 ... Jul 16 01:53:45 Hurrian: yes yours first Jul 16 01:53:47 we need to look for ways to obtain bigger PoP OneNAND and LPDDR parts Jul 16 01:53:54 uSD shows up as mmc0 in powertop Jul 16 01:53:56 .... Jul 16 01:54:11 cehteh: yes Jul 16 01:54:13 Hurrian: more ram would be already good enough for me .. Jul 16 01:54:34 ShadowJK: exactly Jul 16 01:55:19 as the romboot would want to boot from controller0, so you want to have uSD there Jul 16 01:56:06 wonder if we'd get in hot water by selling pre-assembled BGA-compatible SoC+RAM+NAND upgrades with the needed x-loaders Jul 16 01:56:37 better offer some service to install it Jul 16 01:56:38 Hurrian, only the people you sold them to Jul 16 01:56:54 that's btw why linux kernel probes uSD first and so uSD becomes mmc0 in early boot, and later gets renamed Jul 16 01:57:18 ok Jul 16 01:57:28 if there's no media on controller0, linux tests controller1, finds eMMC and assigns name mmc0 to it Jul 16 01:58:35 this is how initial name of your eMMC depends on whether you got uSD inserted or not Jul 16 01:59:11 * ShadowJK imagines it'd be more realistic to manufacture new mainboards with new components... Jul 16 01:59:27 except the modem parts aren't available :/ Jul 16 01:59:41 do a cat /proc/partitions and you see the non-renamed original way things are called Jul 16 01:59:56 ShadowJK, we don't exactly have the files needed for making the boards Jul 16 02:00:44 why must one start from scratch or not contribute to devices like openmoko? Jul 16 02:00:45 179 0 15663104 mmcblk0 == 16GB uSD; 179 8 31264768 mmcblk1 == 32GB eMMC Jul 16 02:01:05 it's a lot easier to sell pre-assembled small parts to "teh 1337 hw h4xx0rz" on tmo Jul 16 02:01:06 btw where can one turn of that the pin entry dialog shows the numbers as you press them? Jul 16 02:01:35 psycho_oreos, openmoko people want GTA04 to fit in old cases Jul 16 02:01:40 DocScrutinizer, what kind of successrate in swapping the soc+pop would a skilled (let's assume top 5% in world) engineer get? :-) Jul 16 02:01:56 30% Jul 16 02:01:57 (gta04 with n900 form factor .. muahaha) Jul 16 02:02:03 Hurrian, surely apart from that they want something else ;) Jul 16 02:02:49 when i used an Om device with SHR, my only reaction is: wow that's tiny Jul 16 02:03:00 it's simply way too small height and width wise Jul 16 02:03:06 right, so even if Hurrian managed to hire one of the best people to do upgrade service, he'd still be destroying 70% of the devices :-) Jul 16 02:03:13 :) Jul 16 02:03:41 so you need to send in 3 device to have a reasonable chance to get one back :P Jul 16 02:03:50 (and DIY KIT = 99.999% destruction?) Jul 16 02:04:21 nokia will love you Jul 16 02:04:23 Guess who (a noob) is back :D http://pastebin.com/USb5pvzD Jul 16 02:04:30 a motherboard swap would have better success rate :P Jul 16 02:04:56 why is 'getbootstate' active? Jul 16 02:05:03 ShadowJK , with all the ESD shields Nokia's put in, a mobo swap better be 100% Jul 16 02:05:22 RiD_: and trackerd .. wait until that settles Jul 16 02:05:24 cehteh, part of watchdogs etc Jul 16 02:05:32 that eats mmc too Jul 16 02:05:56 oh, The getbootstate command determines the runlevel a maemo system boots into. Jul 16 02:06:17 interesting, as it never goes into anything but init 5 on startup Jul 16 02:06:18 RiD_: and your device is still overclocked Jul 16 02:06:38 cehteh: god question, I seen it too Jul 16 02:07:08 Sleeping for 6 seconds before sampling << mine always want to sleep 11 secs .. no idea hwy Jul 16 02:07:23 cehteh: LoL I can't belive i'm not doing anything the correct way :( Jul 16 02:07:26 Brb. Jul 16 02:07:37 :) Jul 16 02:07:44 getbootstate is called in initscripts and terminates immediately Jul 16 02:08:31 I'd backup, get original kernel, check again with powertop Jul 16 02:08:40 eh does he chat from his device while measuring? :) Jul 16 02:08:44 indeed Jul 16 02:08:55 nah Jul 16 02:09:08 that's why he's "back" after running powertop Jul 16 02:09:24 well power kernel is ok (at least most of us could compare/verify against that) .. but you have to turn off all overclocking Jul 16 02:09:42 who here runs the stock kernel? Jul 16 02:09:55 * ShadowJK Jul 16 02:09:58 grr ok, I'll boot up T900 (PK) Jul 16 02:10:12 cehteh: me Jul 16 02:11:23 okok Jul 16 02:11:32 that's why I wondered if maybe PK47 defconfig is fsckdup, causing USBHOST RET etc Jul 16 02:11:53 at least works for me Jul 16 02:11:55 I don't have PK47 otherwise I knew Jul 16 02:12:33 You can never know, some people wouldn't notice because they think half day battery life is normal N900 or something Jul 16 02:12:51 it so much depends on usage Jul 16 02:13:39 the day before yesterday i forgot my device in our new flat and left it laying there with skype on and 3g but otherwise idle Jul 16 02:14:16 next day the battery was 2/3 full still (and i heared music before so when i left it was prolly 3/4) Jul 16 02:14:17 Well I mean if people have a bunch of standby-life killing crap installed, and pk is a standby killer, they wont notice much of a difference to standby life after installing pk :P Jul 16 02:14:58 well meanwhile i have my device well enough configured Jul 16 02:15:09 but i can also drain battery in no time if i want to Jul 16 02:16:27 I'm back once again... and http://pastebin.com/Z6Cmbcsg | It's in the stock settings (but powerkernel) Jul 16 02:16:45 sure its stock settings? Jul 16 02:16:58 kernel-config show Jul 16 02:17:39 (paste that) Jul 16 02:17:44 http://paste.debian.net/123061/ <-powertop with friggin thumbnailer running still Jul 16 02:17:57 wakeups are amazingly low, but the cpu is still not enterig sleep states.. Jul 16 02:18:12 watch the power domain activity breakdown Jul 16 02:18:15 sim and memory card removed? Jul 16 02:18:39 cehteh: Yes. Jul 16 02:19:32 cehteh: http://pastebin.com/VKp5uSdK kernel-config show Jul 16 02:20:03 ok looks like stock settings Jul 16 02:21:06 did you turn off the display while powertop is running? Jul 16 02:21:22 Yes, lol Jul 16 02:21:23 (or even better run powertop over ssh and dont open xterm on the device) Jul 16 02:21:28 mhm strange Jul 16 02:22:11 well .. send the device to me .. i'd like to have some spare parts :P Jul 16 02:22:16 http://paste.debian.net/123062/ that's after thumbnailer/tracker quit Jul 16 02:22:38 I sure will :) not Jul 16 02:23:22 RiD: I hope you didn't install some "optimizer" ? Jul 16 02:23:49 DocScrutinizer: what are RET and INA states at power breakdown? Jul 16 02:24:03 eh? Jul 16 02:24:16 DocScrutinizer: no I didn't. With their superb tune up utilities super edition extreme limited whatever names Jul 16 02:24:18 ret is bad, ina is good Jul 16 02:24:29 names :) Jul 16 02:24:40 inaKTIVE Jul 16 02:24:46 retIRED? Jul 16 02:24:49 ah .. hey i am slow today :) Jul 16 02:24:57 ok Jul 16 02:25:51 anyway I don't see how USBHOST ever can be anything but INA Jul 16 02:26:02 So is my best option to reflash the whole device? :( didn't want to do a 3rd time but... Jul 16 02:26:10 * DocScrutinizer plugs in charger to T900 Jul 16 02:26:16 better than having 13hours idle battery :D Jul 16 02:27:03 did you ever tried to overclock it more than you did? Jul 16 02:27:36 As far as i know i went up to 825 Jul 16 02:27:44 or 850 Jul 16 02:27:56 mhm .. well did it worked before that? Jul 16 02:28:04 http://paste.debian.net/123063/ PK46 on USB wallcharger Jul 16 02:28:16 which format of MicroSD card can be supported by Maemo5 ? I formated SD card into FAT32, but system show s that it is not supported. Jul 16 02:28:30 Yes, it was working perfectly, usual battery life Jul 16 02:29:05 so maybe fried because of overclocking Jul 16 02:29:13 Evanescence: VFAT aka FAT32 should work, if you don't use superfloppy format Jul 16 02:29:17 haha Jul 16 02:29:40 reminds me of fried rice :( Jul 16 02:29:52 well really .. this could be and then its permanent damange Jul 16 02:30:16 you may try to reflash if that doesnt fix then you have a problem Jul 16 02:30:32 I will reflash tomorrow or after tomorrow Jul 16 02:30:40 Evanescence: superfloppy would mean you're doing a mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk1 Jul 16 02:30:47 DocScrutinizer: what superfloppy format ? I just format SD in Win7 with right click to format Jul 16 02:31:20 have not Jul 16 02:31:32 Evanescence: correct is mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk1p1 Jul 16 02:31:53 DocScrutinizer: Ok, I do it. Jul 16 02:32:08 Evanescence: even in win7 afaik you can choose between two format options Jul 16 02:32:31 cehteh: I sure hope so that it's not hardware problem. However, if nokia had good warranty service then they could give me a new one with a shiny new screen :D. I'm dreaming too much Jul 16 02:32:39 btw backup menu doesnt like my setup .. either it doesnt support ext4 or the mount sequence is not good for it (i didnt looked into details) Jul 16 02:32:43 you need to get a partition table, usually you do this via fdisk Jul 16 02:33:17 RiD: overclocking voids warranty and they may deduce that you damaged it by overclocking Jul 16 02:33:22 DocScrutinizer: understand now Jul 16 02:33:49 besides, nokia is out of spare devices .. Jul 16 02:33:51 Evanescence: if you don't create partitions and rather format the whole card from block0 to end with a filesystem, then that's called superfloppy Jul 16 02:34:27 WHAT. D*mn, no more N900s :( Jul 16 02:34:51 DocScrutinizer: that's it. I will use fdisk at first. Jul 16 02:35:52 cehteh: Wait, then what about if an N900 stops working for a non-overclock reason, would they give you another phone instead? Jul 16 02:36:01 yes Jul 16 02:36:08 n8 Jul 16 02:36:22 "It's almost the same!" Jul 16 02:36:27 at least timeless got one .. no idea if thats standard practice Jul 16 02:36:34 haha yeah Jul 16 02:36:53 i'd rather opt for money back :P Jul 16 02:37:09 and would they do that? Most likely not eh :( Jul 16 02:37:35 with my money back i could buy a new n900 and still have half of it Jul 16 02:38:17 haha dream on .. money minus usage/expected lifetime bonus .. so 50 Eur now for a n900 :P Jul 16 02:38:22 (really dont know) Jul 16 02:38:47 hat's way too much. They would ask you to pay €50 Jul 16 02:41:43 DocScrutinizer: does Maemo5 support ext4 or ext3 for MicroSD card ? Jul 16 02:42:28 rumour has it ext3 was meant to get support in PR1.3 - I haven't checked, but doubt it Jul 16 02:43:00 DocScrutinizer: thx Jul 16 02:43:53 Evanescence: I nevertheless think building "support for ext3" into the mountscripts is easy Jul 16 02:43:55 well i'm going to sleep now, already a bit late here (03:41). Thanks for all your help Jul 16 02:44:12 Evanescence: should be mentioned on tmo I guess Jul 16 02:44:29 meh, here it's 4:39 Jul 16 02:44:32 DocScrutinizer: what is tmo ? Jul 16 02:44:36 ~tmo Jul 16 02:44:44 talk maemo . org Jul 16 02:44:45 DUH Jul 16 02:44:57 infobot?? Jul 16 02:45:05 good bot Jul 16 02:45:16 No infobot for tmolol Jul 16 02:45:21 here is 10:40 Jul 16 02:45:26 He's sleeping Jul 16 02:45:46 she Jul 16 02:46:19 It's a she? :o Jul 16 02:46:20 [2011-07-16 04:24:55] [Notify] infobot ist offline (kornbluth.freenode.net). Jul 16 02:46:22 meh Jul 16 02:46:37 DocScrutinizer: ext3 is supported... if it wasn't, the easydebian package wouldn't work so well Jul 16 02:46:39 Evanescence: power kernel supports ext4 .. and i am using it on MyDocs and mmc Jul 16 02:47:04 its a bit pita to get backups back after a reflash .. i hope i dont have to do that anymore :P Jul 16 02:47:17 villager: we're talking about automount of uSD Jul 16 02:47:26 DocScrutinizer: oh, auto? Jul 16 02:47:27 ah yes ext3 is in the stock kernel Jul 16 02:47:32 cehteh: really, thanks, I installed power kernel, and can not startup system... afraid now. Jul 16 02:47:49 Evanescence: well i didnt touched the system partitions Jul 16 02:48:02 and it needed some surgery to use ext4 Jul 16 02:48:23 nokias startup scripts are braindead and broken at best Jul 16 02:48:25 understand, I need to play maemo more. Jul 16 02:48:31 cehteh: I guess we're still talking about uSD Jul 16 02:48:36 yes Jul 16 02:48:46 and emmc .. mydocs partition Jul 16 02:48:59 but not /home Jul 16 02:49:34 what about homeless n900? Jul 16 02:49:49 ext4 on uSD should be trivial with PK, if you're willing to manually mount Jul 16 02:49:56 not reformatted to ext4 i meant Jul 16 02:50:03 DocScrutinizer: yes Jul 16 02:50:12 and it gives a noticeable performance boost Jul 16 02:50:41 RiD: homeless N900 are welcome here, I have a place for each of them Jul 16 02:51:02 trivial is subjective .. considering that there are some people which are not linux geeks use a n900 Jul 16 02:51:26 Just like me, cehteh Jul 16 02:52:11 cehteh: I not geeks... Jul 16 02:52:25 DocScrutinizer: The worst decision of NOKIA was to make that dumbass spanish/portuguese keyboard layout. I hate it so much (I'm portuguese) Jul 16 02:52:28 start learning... Jul 16 02:52:59 RiD: so get a qwerty keymat Jul 16 02:53:24 RiD: I hate the german keymat as well Jul 16 02:53:49 send me yours as spare :P Jul 16 02:53:49 I need my 4 cursor keys, not äöü Jul 16 02:53:53 DocScrutinizer: no local shops here with that, and no chance to buy them online Jul 16 02:54:18 why that? Jul 16 02:54:44 DocScrutinizer: my left arrow got replaced with a . and , My up arrow got replaced by ç and ^ Jul 16 02:55:01 cehteh: /proc/filesystems doesn't list ext4 for my T900 PK Jul 16 02:55:06 :-S Jul 16 02:55:16 for a next phone i'd consider to buy one without keyboard (well not n9 .. few years later) Jul 16 02:55:27 and then an external bluetooth keyboard Jul 16 02:55:48 DocScrutinizer: what's worser is that i have one big usleless key: ñ. portuguese people dont use it :( Jul 16 02:55:53 RiD: sure, but why "no chance to order online"? Jul 16 02:56:02 DocScrutinizer: i saied ext3 is supported by the stock kernel .. ext4 for sure not Jul 16 02:56:19 PL! Jul 16 02:56:23 PK! Jul 16 02:56:26 even Jul 16 02:56:30 pk46 Jul 16 02:56:34 ah Jul 16 02:56:41 you dont have the module loaded Jul 16 02:56:46 modprobe ext4 Jul 16 02:56:48 :nod: Jul 16 02:56:56 now we're talking Jul 16 02:57:17 yoh Jul 16 02:57:42 Evanescence: ^^^ see Jul 16 02:57:48 modprobe ext4 Jul 16 02:57:51 DocScrutinizer: I'm underaged and my parents aren't into online shopping so I can't ask them for buy to me. Nor to a friend Jul 16 02:58:02 DocScrutinizer: ok Jul 16 02:58:14 well you dont need to modprobe it normally .. mount does modprobe on demand (well over udev or whatsnot) Jul 16 02:58:31 aah Jul 16 02:58:53 but you need to give -text4 not automatic fs probing Jul 16 02:59:14 (or fstab) Jul 16 02:59:24 DocScrutinizer: ext3 is supported Jul 16 02:59:25 so you just do a mount -t ext4 /dev/mmcblk1p1 /media/card Jul 16 02:59:37 RiD: you dont know anyone who can buy one for you in portugal? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 16 02:59:57 2011