**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 07 02:59:57 2011 Aug 07 03:01:02 I am now realizing that this log-status operation is destructive Aug 07 03:01:07 because it reads the int_mask Aug 07 03:01:17 and it causes something to happen to the device Aug 07 03:01:22 exactly what I dunno. Aug 07 03:01:25 need DS :) Aug 07 03:01:40 actually I wonder how they managed to get some of those I2C control register on an ioctl for v4l2 while others sit in a soundcard ctl and show up in amixer Aug 07 03:02:44 tx power in amixer, go figure! Aug 07 03:03:18 alsamixer actually Aug 07 03:03:26 samething Aug 07 03:03:35 albeit for some reason alsamixer can't set Mode Aug 07 03:03:49 indeed Aug 07 03:03:54 got mad about it Aug 07 03:04:58 after 2 hours it got me wasted Aug 07 03:06:25 no ideas Aug 07 03:06:42 same here Aug 07 03:06:45 the only thing I've discovered is that if you keep /dev/radio0 open then arecord takes a little more time to timeout Aug 07 03:06:55 as in, 4 or 5 seconds. Aug 07 03:07:07 yup Aug 07 03:07:58 maybe I should try and see how BT audio works Aug 07 03:08:10 good plan Aug 07 03:08:22 but I think they'll do bluez instead of using this crap. Aug 07 03:09:04 battery life when using a BT headset was probably not a goal :) Aug 07 03:09:13 depends on what BT in turn is using Aug 07 03:15:08 what is Tx Ctune btw Aug 07 03:15:38 it's read only Aug 07 03:16:06 ooh --- TX tuning capacitor Aug 07 03:16:41 yeah Aug 07 03:16:51 cool audio control, no? ;-P Aug 07 03:17:05 indeed. Aug 07 03:17:53 makes you wonder how much of the stuff the coder actually understood Aug 07 03:19:12 maybe e could get CPU core voltage as an audio control as well? X-D Aug 07 03:19:29 hey, don't give ideas to those crazy tmo overclockers. Aug 07 03:20:59 TX power isn'T r/o iirc Aug 07 03:21:05 nope Aug 07 03:22:08 we could replace settings completely by alsamixer Aug 07 03:22:24 I think I now completely confused the driver Aug 07 03:22:36 it is allowing me to aplay data into the codec Aug 07 03:23:29 no complains in dmesg.. Aug 07 03:23:48 technically mcbsp IF is always bidir Aug 07 03:23:58 and asme thing happens Aug 07 03:24:05 after some data written Aug 07 03:24:08 timeout and -EIO Aug 07 03:24:45 (evidently while waiting for space in buffer) Aug 07 03:25:42 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh Aug 07 03:25:53 even in Bt mode the _same_ _thing_ _happens_ Aug 07 03:25:58 toldya one card for all is a bewildering design Aug 07 03:30:24 anyway if there's some working FOSS BT "framework" on that thing, it might work similarly for FM Aug 07 03:31:00 oh Aug 07 03:31:06 so getting same error for BT is better than getting the error only for FMRX Aug 07 03:31:11 I now realize that "Audio Mode" is a purely software thing Aug 07 03:31:15 er.. Aug 07 03:31:18 "Codec Mode" Aug 07 03:31:40 this makes this very weird Aug 07 03:32:02 what's the values for codec mode? Aug 07 03:32:08 BT FmRx FmTx Aug 07 03:32:15 dang Aug 07 03:32:17 cause this means .... Aug 07 03:32:27 it all works alike Aug 07 03:32:43 and among other things hardware nevers get notified if I switch it to "bt" Aug 07 03:32:49 so switching it to bt does ... nothing?? Aug 07 03:32:52 indeed Aug 07 03:32:55 * javispedro now understands even less than moments ago Aug 07 03:33:19 that's what v4l2 is for Aug 07 03:33:30 .oO(???) Aug 07 03:34:09 seemingly all codec mode does is set some alsa parameter validation Aug 07 03:34:21 :nod: Aug 07 03:35:26 why is it _always_ audio that's messed up fubar, no matter on which platform? Aug 07 03:36:52 * DocScrutinizer waves Aug 07 03:39:08 * javispedro gives up for the day Aug 07 04:50:21 I found my best font for N900 : Linux Biolinum! Aug 07 04:50:58 its style very similar to Chinese writing :D imo Aug 07 04:54:19 `best' is best described as per se, of one's particular interest Aug 07 04:56:49 psycho_oreos: I spoken: "my best"... Aug 07 04:57:26 jiero, rather best rephrased as my \favourite\ instead of \best\ ;) Aug 07 04:58:14 psycho_oreos: yeah, its not eye-catching then. Aug 07 05:02:28 psycho_oreos: what font you use? Aug 07 05:04:10 jiero, a mixture of standard/extra fonts (nothing special really, I only care about legible factors rather than having fancy ones). For instance, on X-Terminal I use Droid fonts, but otherwise I use standard Nokia Sans/Nokia Pure fonts Aug 07 05:08:15 psycho_oreos: ty. have you seen a problem that apt always try to uninstall Droids Font? Due to this problem, I was frustrated and getting other fonts from my laptop... Aug 07 05:10:24 jiero, never seen an issue with apt always wanting to try and and uninstall droid font. I have had at one stage apt incorrectly asking to install a whole bunch of other packages (was related to i10n to be frank) and I think that was fixed up. Probably because the maintainer was modifying the Depends field for that metapackage. Aug 07 05:12:25 ok, hopefully its only on me... Aug 07 05:15:38 I'm guessing it might be the repositories of which you enable/use which may cause apt to do that. There might be a fix for it but don't quote me on it. I have to deal with issues on HAM showing up old packages needing to upgrade, which they have already been upgraded. Aug 07 05:26:01 jiero, when you mean apt always trying to uninstall droid font you mean that whenever you execute apt-get download for instance it shows up ttf-droid is no longer required and can be removed via autoremove command? Aug 07 05:26:49 psycho_oreos: yes Aug 07 05:26:59 and even i install it. Aug 07 05:27:46 I'm rethinking about it now. I know that appears when a package you have installed previously did depend on that package so if it was installed manually (as in ttf-droid) it may not show that issue. Aug 07 05:32:21 complex logic to meO:) Im simple mind... Aug 07 05:32:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OilBV3CUYw&NR=1 Aug 07 05:32:40 I want this game to port to N900 :D Aug 07 05:33:49 its a pretty simple fix I think.. uninstall ttf-droid font (make sure you're not using ttf-droid anywhere) and then manually install ttf-droid. That autoremove message should no longer appear hopefully Aug 07 05:41:55 psycho_oreos: thanks, I told you it won't work:D Aug 07 05:42:00 but.. Aug 07 05:42:06 thanks Aug 07 05:42:48 jiero, there has to be a way to make it work :p I installed ttf-droid on its own and never had that autoremove option for ttf-droid. I'm presuming the same could be said and done in your case. Though if apt-get doesn't work, I'd just go through the dpkg route Aug 07 05:44:43 yeah, just mv ～ Aug 07 05:45:46 lol well mv is technically the last sort of resort that I would use if apt-get still moans about ttf-droid as a dependency package Aug 07 05:46:19 the only issue with that is you'll have to rm it should you no longer require the font in the near future Aug 07 05:46:23 psycho_oreos: I then won't bother package management... Aug 07 05:47:08 psycho_oreos: I just need to reformat all repartation all... 2GB is very strict too me... Aug 07 05:47:27 I need at least 7 GB i suppose. Aug 07 05:48:21 jiero, not that package management is either good or bad but to have a somewhat sense of centralising all the individual bits and pieces of the files that resides on the fs you may as well somehow negotiate with the package management. Though I guess you've already tried doing it :) Aug 07 05:49:04 7GB is enough? you're planning to install every package from the extras-devel repository? :D Aug 07 05:49:07 well. font is more like document... Aug 07 05:50:26 psycho_oreos: 7GB because everything in ~/ need it except ~/MyDocs and I heard a best Linux partition must remain 1/4 space unused. Aug 07 05:50:46 font on the filesystem is still known as a file :) the operating system doesn't really differentiate between a document and a regular file. They only care for few specific things namely: fifo, block devices, character devices, regular files, etc Aug 07 05:51:43 psycho_oreos: here is the differences, font should go ~/MyDocs rather than go system folder... unless its not safe. Aug 07 05:52:49 to use that, I need root..... root somehow need password, omg, i completely failed to learn linux. Aug 07 05:52:56 jiero, I think you're technically misunderstanding things :) /home/user is whatever you store for your own need (and you want it to reside in ext3 rather than fat) apart from that /home/user is also used by programs which store intermediate files (such as personal preferences, score tables, etc). However /home/user shares the same partition as /opt which is regularly used by programs that would otherwise hog the rootfs Aug 07 05:53:49 or rather you could relocate the font directory to /opt and probably symlink it. Not that I would have tried that method but that might be an alternative Aug 07 05:55:08 psycho_oreos: I think font is my own need rather than system need... Aug 07 05:55:38 good morning Aug 07 05:56:12 jiero, well the system would need it if you set any programs to depend on it Aug 07 05:56:15 hi Aug 07 05:57:00 good morning Aug 07 08:20:25 So... I just got my first N900 replacement OEM/knockoff case. Aug 07 08:20:57 impressions?　;) Aug 07 08:21:02 It's actually quite interesting: They evidently bought/copied the original moulds: The pieces are *exact*, down to the ID numbers built into it. Aug 07 08:21:36 However, that's *all* they got: Anything with stamped letters(like the keyboard) evidently had new stamps made, which... aren't quite as good. Aug 07 08:22:00 The letters are thicker, and someone made a mistake: instead of a blue $, there's a blue S Aug 07 08:22:31 Also, the two magnets in the back piece are missing, along with the black/white squares on the camera slider. Aug 07 08:23:15 The slider itself, however, is perfectly made. everything looks great, feels great. Aug 07 08:24:05 I compared the blue $ on both keyboards (one being original keypad to my newer N900, the other, a replacement keypad I bought in China for my older N900). They look exactly the same except the material used on both were different. The newer N900 is more of a matte type keypad as opposed to the glossy look/feel of the Chinese clone Aug 07 08:24:57 yeah the insides of the backplates for the clone looked really funny. I saw a photo of that the other day with a manufacturer selling a clone N900 (which of course wasn't running maemo at all) Aug 07 08:26:13 Let me upload a pic Aug 07 08:26:34 http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/images/n900-replacement-back.jpeg Aug 07 08:26:51 One undernieth is the original, one on top is the replacement. Aug 07 08:27:20 The material on the new one is slightly more "grainy"/matte, versus the original one which reflected more Aug 07 08:27:32 lol that knockoff case is a dramatic improvement to the knockoff N900 that I saw Aug 07 08:27:51 Evidently, yea Aug 07 08:29:47 see the front: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/images/n900-new-back-missing-magnets.jpeg Aug 07 08:38:21 is there still a way let N900 become a bluetooth speaker? Aug 07 08:44:01 jiero: Yes. I don't know how, though Aug 07 08:44:50 robbiethe1st, http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/346983266/for_Nokia_N900_Keypad_black_Colour.html <--- similar if not exact same as the one I　bought when I was in China. afaik its an exact clone except its not matte finish Aug 07 08:46:01 * psycho_oreos is crawling through alibaba for that fake N900 to get the photo of poorly mimicked back cover Aug 07 08:46:09 psycho_oreos: o, you been China before:| what do you think about our people.:D Aug 07 08:46:36 jiero, err ok I suppose Aug 07 08:47:03 psycho_oreos: mind I ask where you from? Aug 07 08:47:29 really shifty when you're the foreigner trying to buy stuff from them, they try to raise the price of what it was worth originally Aug 07 08:47:43 robbiethe1st: thanks. Aug 07 08:47:54 jiero, was born in .tw, now in .au Aug 07 08:48:05 psycho_oreos: I understood. Aug 07 08:48:25 psycho_oreos: no wonder, Im Chinese from mainland in Au as well. Aug 07 08:49:08 ok, my English grammar was wrong. Aug 07 08:49:36 jiero, I was lucky to have me old man, he was able to negotiate with mainland Chinese people or otherwise I'd have to pay things through my nose Aug 07 08:49:45 All you foreigners coming in to invade our land. Aug 07 08:49:58 Doesn't sound like us Australians at all... Aug 07 08:50:01 :p Aug 07 08:50:10 you invaded aboriginies land, don't forget :p Aug 07 08:50:18 :P Aug 07 08:50:39 well. I hope all country become one. :D Aug 07 08:51:14 err that's a fairly vague/broad statement Aug 07 08:51:56 dream to tell, statement to spread Aug 07 08:52:48 o.O Aug 07 08:54:12 heh. Aug 07 08:54:14 no one has a clue what you're saying, sorry. Aug 07 08:58:17 :D http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/439506879/N900.html Aug 07 09:05:48 http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/109188621/BRAND_NEW_Nokia_N900_BUY_2.html <--- lol yet another one (no that looks more like predecessors of N900) Aug 07 09:05:58 hello Aug 07 09:06:24 I am trying to determine the dbus call to set the operator name Aug 07 09:07:26 is there any safe way to remove default applications? Aug 07 09:08:05 apt-get remove ...? Aug 07 09:08:13 dbus-send --system --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.phone. Aug 07 09:08:13 net /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net_operator_name_change string:"lol" Aug 07 09:08:26 it isnt this Aug 07 09:08:37 any suggestions? Aug 07 09:09:20 if it were that simple, there wouldn't be any need for a custom operator name widget created by qwerty12 Aug 07 09:11:55 robbiethe1st: i googled that may cause unstable system Aug 07 09:12:13 Uh... No. Either it will work, or it won't if you remove the wrong thing. Aug 07 09:12:36 custom operator widget was so noobz didnt have to use xterm. Aug 07 09:12:41 apt-get is the internal package manager; it will handle removing things correctly. Aug 07 09:12:41 or if he doesn't know what he's removing/doing Aug 07 09:12:45 it is a simple dbus call Aug 07 09:13:44 I suspect Q12 widget intercepted the the dbus call and replaced it with his own Aug 07 09:25:27 ok, so how i can get package name of program ? ex. "get started" program? Aug 07 10:20:55 Hi, anyone on here have experience using SDL_gles? Aug 07 10:24:39 Juozapas, with dpkg -l and some thinking Aug 07 10:24:54 dpkg -L to verify afterwards as well Aug 07 10:25:26 Aug 07 11:01:43 why the n900 gps is working so slow Aug 07 11:01:58 take me 20-30 min untill he find's a gps signal Aug 07 11:02:16 i can do something about that? Aug 07 11:02:55 so guys some help over here? Aug 07 11:05:39 godtrunks: do you have a sim inside? Aug 07 11:05:52 it just has to be inside, it doesn't even have to be registered to a network Aug 07 11:06:28 yes Aug 07 11:06:37 then wtf Aug 07 11:06:39 i have a sim card inside Aug 07 11:06:42 realy Aug 07 11:06:52 i have sigyc mobile maps 2010 Aug 07 11:07:21 with naftec maps Aug 07 11:07:50 what shoud i do? Aug 07 11:08:16 i have lot's of problems with it since i uninstall nitdroid gingerbread 3.2 Aug 07 11:08:48 what shoud i do next? Aug 07 11:08:51 any advice? Aug 07 11:12:45 godtrunks: you are actually more luck than I am, I never find the signal Aug 07 11:12:56 wtf? Aug 07 11:13:01 why? Aug 07 11:13:14 what i have to do now? Aug 07 11:13:17 warranty? Aug 07 11:13:29 give me another one? Aug 07 11:16:52 see /topic Aug 07 11:17:02 i can't Aug 07 11:17:08 i'n on web irc.. Aug 07 11:17:32 ../toping is not working Aug 07 11:22:28 reflash COMBINED, postpone restoring all your uebergeek apps, install location test GUI, insert SIM and register, go to a free place with free sight at sky, start location test, set to "user" (OWTTE) and wait, fon't move too much Aug 07 11:25:43 aah, and UPDATE!! GPS didn't realy work with old obsolete ootb OS versions Aug 07 11:27:20 and, if this wasn't obvious: never expect GPS to work indoors Aug 07 11:30:47 in a car mate not indor Aug 07 11:31:57 in a car is often worse than indoors. metalized windows Aug 07 11:32:45 how about other gps devices? Aug 07 11:33:03 bot with internet fing signal quick Aug 07 11:33:12 bot with internet find signal quick Aug 07 11:33:27 but with internet find signal quick Aug 07 11:36:15 other devices often have 10 times larger antenna, as they don't need GSM-4band plus 3G-3band, plus BT WLAN antenna, plus FMTX antenna Aug 07 11:38:57 maybe they ought to go back to those retractable antennas sticking out of the phone Aug 07 11:40:31 There are alterenatives to them sticking out of the phone. Aug 07 11:41:25 villager: I'd be all for that... most of the time, you don Aug 07 11:41:30 't need it. But when you do... Aug 07 11:41:32 http://www.movieline.com/images/hcyPLLe/hT6EJkL/xSz50LV/JDkQ/aliens_southpark.jpg Aug 07 11:42:42 anyway, my GPS on N900 been abysmal in the beginning, and after some sw-updates it's just awesome now, with SIM with GPRS/data Aug 07 11:43:40 with a sim withot packet data Aug 07 11:44:04 depends Aug 07 11:44:06 Only remaining issue for GPS for me is the lack of accurate geotagging. Aug 07 11:44:14 ~gsm-agps Aug 07 11:44:14 hmm... rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP Aug 07 11:45:21 SpeedEvil: srill the frigging "last decimals always 0" issue? Aug 07 11:45:51 yeah Aug 07 11:46:12 :-(((( Aug 07 11:47:36 so the advide is to sw update? Aug 07 11:47:59 Yes. Aug 07 11:48:06 If you're not on the latest firmware Aug 07 11:48:19 y think i am Aug 07 11:48:26 last update Aug 07 11:48:49 Settings->about product - should show a version ending in 36-2 Aug 07 11:49:35 or having this sequene somewhere in the name Aug 07 11:51:02 oke Aug 07 11:51:05 thx Aug 07 12:26:31 looking at the internal pictures of the N900, the WLAN module does have hirose u.fl connected, but then there's two other components that has hirose u.fl connectors but I couldn't identify the chipsets. FM transmitter module is definitely not on that list of chipsets that has access to hirose u.fl as it seems to have its own small loop type antenna Aug 07 12:35:03 Waht are you trying to work otu psycho_oreos Aug 07 12:36:42 SpeedEvil, you know those test connectors on the pcb of the N900 itself. I've been trying to figure out what the other two test connectors were. I have figured out one of which is wlan module and just now looking at the schematics the other is GPS　receiver. So now I'm debunking the third one. My rough guess is that it might be for Bluetooth Aug 07 12:37:00 ah Aug 07 12:38:05 nevermind the third one is cellular test connector Aug 07 12:40:09 http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/microsoft_news/231300314 Aug 07 12:43:56 ~aegis is also http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif Aug 07 12:43:57 DocScrutinizer: okay Aug 07 12:44:02 lol Aug 07 12:44:46 call me stupid but isn't BTFM　module the exact same module as BT itself? Aug 07 12:45:25 yes Aug 07 12:45:27 It does both Aug 07 12:45:34 FMTX is a seperate chipset Aug 07 12:45:44 that's what I thought.. hmm now to find that chipset from the pictures Aug 07 12:45:45 DocScrutinizer, nice one ;) Aug 07 12:45:57 yeah FMTX　is the clip on PCB type chip Aug 07 12:46:14 Err - what? Aug 07 12:46:34 It's a small LGA IIRC Aug 07 12:46:39 Or maybe QFN Aug 07 12:46:52 psycho_oreos: please rephrase Aug 07 12:48:02 The FM signal is transmitted from a loop antenna built into the case, and connected to the PCB with clips. <---- http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_FM_radio_transmitter Aug 07 12:48:37 yes Aug 07 12:48:50 That's just the antenna Aug 07 12:48:54 almost correct, though it's not actually a loop antenna afaik Aug 07 12:49:25 looking at the photos available, FMTX　chip is identified via the little weird wire thing on the underside of the screen but on the PCB itself it appears with the FCC　internal photos there's the missing module where FMTX is supposed to be Aug 07 12:49:56 err wut? Aug 07 12:49:57 hmm wait maybe not where the screen might be Aug 07 12:49:58 There are actual photos of purchased units Aug 07 12:51:54 yeah I've seen one of those purchased units pulled apart with all the photos. Just for a beginner like me its not easy to look for which chip on the phsical PCB board is exactly what :) Aug 07 12:52:05 s/phsical/physical/ Aug 07 12:52:05 psycho_oreos meant: yeah I've seen one of those purchased units pulled apart with all the photos. Just for a beginner like me its not easy to look for which chip on the physical PCB board is exactly what :) Aug 07 12:52:14 psy go to schematics, ^F"fm transmitter" -->> find a hit on p.8 and learn fmtx chip is N6180 Aug 07 12:52:21 psycho_oreos: ^^^ Aug 07 12:53:41 search for N6180 on p.16 to find it is located in quadrant G7 Aug 07 12:53:53 DocScrutinizer, thanks, schematics doesn't really help me all that much in terms of comparing that with actual photo of the PCB. I guess I'll just have to dive deeper Aug 07 12:54:00 search quadrant G7 for that chip labeled N6180 Aug 07 12:54:07 ahh! Aug 07 12:55:51 once you learned to spot the chip, you go to http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/ to see if you can read the actual printing on the chip in my super-highres scans Aug 07 12:56:02 thanks! *slaps forehead* this/these pages are also the same pages I've been looking for in comparison with what was noted here: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic and potentially here: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#Additional_Hardware Aug 07 12:56:51 page 16 was extremely helpful :D at least I don't have to guess with exactly which chip goes where Aug 07 12:57:53 also the wiki should probably be updated :) you no longer have your high res images at people.openmoko.org ;) or at least its accessible from my end Aug 07 12:58:11 s/accessible/inaccessible/ Aug 07 12:58:12 psycho_oreos meant: also the wiki should probably be updated :) you no longer have your high res images at people.openmoko.org ;) or at least its inaccessible from my end Aug 07 12:59:46 psycho_oreos: the server is down, and afaik I updated the wiki to include the alternative addr several months ago Aug 07 13:00:04 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/ IS accessable Aug 07 13:00:50 DocScrutinizer, no no I meant: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900 at http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic#cite_note-high_resolution_scans-0 Aug 07 13:01:02 and has some nice additional scans of unpopulated bare PCB Aug 07 13:03:17 ok link fixed on that hardware schematic site :) Aug 07 13:07:07 hah Aug 07 13:07:51 mediawiki is darn smart, it didn't even throw a warning :-D Aug 07 13:08:10 o.O Aug 07 13:08:55 hi. does anyone know of a way to get the data of a n900 (stock bootloader+os) without a working screen? Aug 07 13:09:10 psycho_oreos: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=N900_Hardware_Schematic&diff=44798&oldid=44377 Aug 07 13:09:23 something like an undocumented switch for the flasher or something like that? Aug 07 13:09:39 psycho_oreos: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=N900_Hardware_Schematic&diff=next&oldid=44798 Aug 07 13:09:45 Amorphous, tried using TV out cable? Aug 07 13:09:55 psycho_oreos: I.E. my edit was exactly same as your edit Aug 07 13:09:56 ooh good idea Aug 07 13:10:47 actually no, it added a / Aug 07 13:10:50 DocScrutinizer, except you had a forward slash at the end of your link :D lol oh well Aug 07 13:10:53 yeah Aug 07 13:12:37 so wiki isn't smart, it's not even *noticing* my edit based on a version that got changed from opening the edit page to saving it Aug 07 13:13:52 thought I've seen such "your source changed, can't save your edits" warnings Aug 07 13:15:56 well, maybe it IS extremely smart, detecting the edit I try to save doesn't conflict with the most recent version of the page, though my edit been based on an older "obsolete" version of the page Aug 07 13:16:06 I think in such cases the wiki itself would probably try to differentiate where exactly the source has been changed.. i.e. if I tried to change your link to some other link whilst you changed it back to your proper link, it may show that warning. Probably because on the same link that I used to replace on yours in which you later overwrote with a proper link. Aug 07 13:16:21 yeah Aug 07 13:17:51 see if I changed from your old site to google.com for instance on that wikipage for the link to your high res photos but at the very same time you have an older revision of the wiki that still points to your old site. If you tried to change that old link to the current link whilst I've already saved that wiki page for your link as google.com it would have shown you a warning I bet ;) Aug 07 13:18:15 * SpeedEvil suffers from a stack overflow. Aug 07 13:19:02 * DocScrutinizer suffers from E_caffeine_low Aug 07 13:19:06 time for 12648430 ☕ Aug 07 13:19:33 SpeedEvil: seen the cartoon? Aug 07 13:19:37 segmentation fault Aug 07 13:19:38 :-D Aug 07 13:19:52 yes Aug 07 13:22:34 wolfgang used it on this very nice qi-hw news page: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Copyleft_Hardware_News_2011-08-08 Aug 07 13:36:22 is it just me or does BTFM uses the same antenna as WLAN? I can sort of relate to the schematics FM　is actually wired to 3.5mm stereo jack but what about the BT part? does the TX_CONFX/RF_ACTIVE/STATUS part means something to do with BT transreceiving? Aug 07 13:37:05 n900 is a wl1251? Aug 07 13:37:24 wl1251b Aug 07 13:37:59 at least the wl1271 uses the same antenna for BT and WLAN. better drivers have coexistence features where both BT and WLAN won't try to TX at the same time Aug 07 13:38:43 I thought wl1271 combines wlan, fm and possibly even bt together on a single chip? :) Aug 07 13:39:45 psycho_oreos: What are you trying to do that you need all this hw info? (I don't have info, just wondering) Aug 07 13:41:12 ErwinJunge, been pondering the idea of modding my N900, going to try to push it to its limits (no not overclocking). Though as of this point, I'm only curiously pondering and keeping it in my mind until I have some sort of financial backing to do some real modding :) Aug 07 13:41:20 Also, anyone on who has any experience using SDL_gles? I'm trying to port the darkplaces engine to N900, and it kind of works, but I get 2 screens where I should get one. One has the proper title but is black, the other shows the game menu but has title "unknown" Aug 07 13:42:05 psycho_oreos, could you elaborate a bit? What kind of modding do you mean to push it to its limits? Aug 07 13:43:24 ErwinJunge, the funny thing you see here is, the N900 has 3 hirose u.fl connectors. These are for wlan, cellular and GPS. If lets say I drill some small holes on the actual N900 PCB, have adapters to convert hirose u.fl to RP-SMA and have three RP-SMA　heads sticking out on the back. Attaching right antennas for each of those I gain signal boost :) Aug 07 13:44:44 Sounds cool, you live in the middle of nowhere? :) Living in the Netherlands, I can't really envision a use for that, other than awesomeness-factor. Aug 07 13:46:01 the second thing I'm looking at is to see if there's an antenna connector somewhere for the bluetooth module as I wouldn't want it to be a leech and suck on wlan's connectivity. Maybe even modding the fm transmitter to have external antenna could be possible. Last but not least, was looking at gyroscope/compass that other's have pointed out. I can see there's a bit of space within the front side of N900 (looking at the PCB board of course) maybe some sort Aug 07 13:46:02 of wiring with chips hanging on those front sides could be a possibility Aug 07 13:46:56 ErwinJunge, wouldn't really say in the middle of nowhere but if I can turn this into a living reality, it would be really nice to have a device sticking out differently from the crowd :) Aug 07 13:47:56 Compass sounds interesting. Is a thing I found surprising that it didn't have tbh Aug 07 13:48:27 Just having an N900 doesn't make you stand out enough? It's not really the most popular phone ever ;) Aug 07 13:49:04 I mean notably with wl1251 being open sourced, and having wifi pentesting tool such as aircrack-ng working with it. If you have lets say a 5dbi antenna attached, you could pick up APs from further distances. GPS issues? well with antenna attached it'll be able to pick up satellites more easily.. cellular issues? with external antenna you'll probably be able to still obtain signals even though you seem to be in the middle of nowhere Aug 07 13:49:50 well I admit having N900 would probably stand out (especially if you have kept the device for awhile) but one thing that annoys me with so many small avenues like these that are made possible, why not try to exploit them? Aug 07 13:50:06 All true, it does broaden the applicability of the device. Aug 07 13:51:06 I see some people making 3000mAH batteries, I　see some people making small little amps to boost their stereos Aug 07 13:51:16 More of a software guy myself (I suck at using manual tools), but this sounds cool :) Good luck with it. Do you plan on offering modding service to other people as well? Aug 07 13:52:09 heh thanks, as for offering service I probably won't :)　not that I'm any good with modding myself nor can I guarentee your device would be ok after its modded Aug 07 13:52:31 I may however if I　do decide to eventually modify mine, I will make a documentation for it. Aug 07 13:52:33 Too bad, I might actually be interested :) Aug 07 13:53:25 well I can't see how the other two mobs that modded their N900 in their own ways would be happy to mod yours or anyone else's ;) I can't see why the same logic doesn't apply here Aug 07 13:54:08 Too many negatives in that sentence, I don't get what you mean :) Aug 07 13:54:48 Anyways, apparantly noone here has used SDL_gles :( Aug 07 13:55:14 the people who did hardware modifications on their N900 (i.e. 3000mAH battery hack, amp hack) didn't say they'll provide service to modify anyone else's device. No? :) Aug 07 13:56:28 I'm sure simply put. If people are really desperate to modify their own device, they would do it themselves rather than paying someone else to do it and giving the other party grief when things don't work Aug 07 13:57:12 Well, giving the other party grief doesn't make sense :) I'd approach it more in a "you have less chance of screwing this up than I do" kind of way. Aug 07 13:58:07 If I try to modify my device, I run a 100% risk of completely destroying it. If you get it to work on yours, the risk is at least lower than 100% ;) Aug 07 13:58:08 more like as in, `hey! I paid you to modify my device but now it doesn't work! why? I want my money back! you broke my device!' Aug 07 13:59:03 I understand, it's just not really the kind of contract you'd expect for these kind of services. A "no guarantees" thing makes a lot more sense. Modding is inherantly risky. Aug 07 13:59:13 I'm sure you could hire any electrician or a reliable hobbyist to do the job of modding your device :) Aug 07 13:59:23 I'd be paying for a reduction of risk, not removal of risk. Aug 07 13:59:50 True Aug 07 14:00:10 Would come with the same "no guarantees" thing though ;) Aug 07 14:00:15 yup but many don't realise that.. its quite evident on tmo threads that there's lots and lots of newbs out there who just doesn't have a clue about anything and they're the ones that will give you woes if you offer them services in which they may regret later in life Aug 07 14:00:41 not really, they'll still bicker even if you said that Aug 07 14:02:51 True :) I understand why you'd be hesitant to offer services. Aug 07 14:02:53 at any rate I intend to first add those 3 antennas in, they seem to be the easiest of the lot when it comes to modding Aug 07 14:03:17 Sounds awesome. Where would they stick out of the body? Aug 07 14:04:48 from the rear would be ideal, though there's other thoughts that circulated around my head, such as if one uses 3000mAH　battery mod with a mugen back cover, they maybe able to easily mod that back cover to incorporate three holes for RP-SMA. Aug 07 14:05:35 And then run cables around the battery? Aug 07 14:06:07 Then there's the thought of custom back cover which would be something like a mixture of nokia's stock back cover plus mugen's back cover.. with bigger kick stand and proper camera door, etc Aug 07 14:07:56 nah, been looking at the backside of the N900 and I can see it looks like there is some sort of lump on the plastic part (once you remove the back cover of course). I was thinking of drilling holes there and having three RP-SMA heads sticking out. Obviously I wouldn't want to use extra long hirose u.fl -> RP-SMA　as that would defeat the purpose as well as making a mess Aug 07 14:08:06 Hmm.. do you have a blog/forum thread/wiki/anything else that I can follow? Aug 07 14:09:13 currently no, these are only speculations on my head. If I were serious about it I'd probably blog/forum thread it, especially if I'm going to proceed doing what I have said. Right now these are just imaginations and I won't be able to do them in the near future until my finance approves Aug 07 14:09:23 s/on my/in my/ Aug 07 14:09:23 psycho_oreos meant: currently no, these are only speculations in my head. If I were serious about it I'd probably blog/forum thread it, especially if I'm going to proceed doing what I have said. Right now these are just imaginations and I won't be able to do them in the near... Aug 07 14:10:06 gawd.. I fail.. s/finance approves/finances improves/ Aug 07 14:10:55 Cool that infobot actually applies the substitute on the last message :) Aug 07 14:11:33 indeed but only if you specify the substitution as the first parameter Aug 07 14:12:36 anyhow, I don't plan to keep anyone interested :) I don't want to hold empty promises nor do I care if someone copied my idea right here and now and used it for their own good. Aug 07 14:15:31 Clear. Still sounds awesome, so good luck with it. I hope it'll work :) What kind of finances would you need for a project like this? Aug 07 14:16:59 adapters (hirose u.fl -> RP-SMA) of specific lengths (which needs to be measured), specific drill bits and drill of course Aug 07 14:17:40 I think I already have the right screw heads to undo the screws on the backside of N900, the rest of other mods require soldering tools, flux, etc Aug 07 14:20:32 lcuk, ping Aug 07 14:24:10 psycho_oreos: BT and WLAN share one antenna, and one hirose connector Aug 07 14:24:38 psycho_oreos: no, drilling holes into the PCB is *no* good idea Aug 07 14:25:04 DocScrutinizer, FFS! damn parasite BT for sharing same antenna as WLAN Aug 07 14:25:32 I don't see the problem Aug 07 14:25:45 well yeah though I was looking at empty PCB　spots and I thought there was an area where I can drill holes (after comparing both pictures) it seems to be blank area Aug 07 14:26:15 well it is a problem if for example you're using rfmon with wlan and you're listening to music through bt headphones Aug 07 14:26:21 forget it, there are no "blank areas" on a 7 layer PCB Aug 07 14:26:32 bah :/ Aug 07 14:27:25 so other ways would be to have cable going around the PCB, i.e. where there are gaps for buttons, and stylus pen for instance Aug 07 14:27:34 psycho_oreos: so what's the difference with BT getting killed by WLAN when they share one antenna, compared to a situation where a dedicated WLAN antenna interferes and kills BT on the dedicated BT antenna nearby? Aug 07 14:28:17 DocScrutinizer: same shit Aug 07 14:28:27 DocScrutinizer: transmitter is slightly simpler though Aug 07 14:28:43 jacekowski: see backscroll for context Aug 07 14:29:05 jacekowski: psycho_oreos wants to separate BT and WLAN antenna to fix an unfixable issue Aug 07 14:29:40 actually it *is* fixable and *got fixed*, by hw coexistence Aug 07 14:29:45 DocScrutinizer, its more like WLAN gets interference from BT when its in RFMON mode. Though if both had separate antennas and lets say that I add antennas and place them elsewhere (not within 1 metre radius) it wouldn't be of an issue as compared to having them both together Aug 07 14:30:09 nonsesne Aug 07 14:30:34 well, in the case that I've examined of hw coexistance via lxp's bleeding-edge drivers, it wasn't fixed. It was still showing the same issue Aug 07 14:30:39 exactly the same, unless you place your BT antenna further away than the peer's wlan antenna Aug 07 14:31:33 psycho_oreos: you evidently have a odd idea of how bt/wlan interference and coexistence work Aug 07 14:31:37 but in either case none of this would be possible if both share the exact same antenna anyway :) its not like you could place BT and WLAN antenna at like 1 km apart :) Aug 07 14:32:26 DocScrutinizer, *shrugs* from the way I see it, there's no real proper coexistance :) they both operate on the similar frequency (2.4GHz) Aug 07 14:32:31 BT and WLAN share one frequency. period. Aug 07 14:33:39 there's absolutely no way to make them work concurrently in same geographic area, without separating domains by RF-tight walls Aug 07 14:34:13 coexistence manages some sort of round-robbing tdma Aug 07 14:34:25 aka scheduling Aug 07 14:34:50 this doesn't mean you cured the basic immanent problem Aug 07 14:34:57 which wouldn't work in the case of one having wlan in rfmon mode and bt paired and sending data to another device Aug 07 14:35:20 it can not work Aug 07 14:35:35 actually BT2 has AFH, which excludes the most noisiest channels from the frequency hopping list. I've seen my E75 avoid my wlan frequency when I start pushing lots of data over wlan Aug 07 14:36:31 ShadowJK: psycho_oreos talks about "passive" wlan in monitor mode, scanning whole band I guess. BT will *always* interfere with that Aug 07 14:36:58 which was precisely my problem. Though little did I know that you had to separate WLAN and BT miles apart in order to have them work concurrently for a simple issue Aug 07 14:37:10 and separating antennae by 1, 2, 5m doesn't help either Aug 07 14:39:17 wlan operates on a smaller spectrum than bt but in either case its inevitable that both of them overlaps each other Aug 07 14:39:29 psycho_oreos: if you want to use your speaker box for microphone (which of course would theoretically work), then it won't help if you get a 2nd speaker 1m away playing your heavy metal @ 110dBm, you still can't record the dialog of two guys 10m away while the box is shouting your heavy metal sound Aug 07 14:40:43 well, if you make channels smaller Aug 07 14:40:55