**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 09 02:59:56 2011 Aug 09 03:08:05 just got a random tweet Aug 09 03:08:09 http://store.ovi.com/content/121065 Aug 09 03:08:22 looksnice Aug 09 03:09:48 hmm, now I more focus on media play, svg-edit, boot debian 5 with touch support, and games. Aug 09 03:10:32 None of those humble indie bundle game ported to N900, they even got PSP port :S Aug 09 04:28:48 N9 sale in one month. Maybe in 2 weeks. Aug 09 04:38:55 I know poeple were complaining about where it was being released Aug 09 04:39:09 is there any reason I can just buy it form EU and ship it to US and use it? Aug 09 05:46:13 Does someone here tether via PAN? For me it works every now and then but 9 out of 10 times I try to connect, my laptop can't get an IP address via dhcp; it times out. once it has an ip, it works very well. I tried two different scripts from tmo. Aug 09 06:47:46 X-Fade: ping Aug 09 06:49:20 I got a message from logica, that they have some issues with datacenter, so maemo.org is down for awhile, sorry Aug 09 06:56:12 ok, they got it up. somehow managed to bork their disks again. :) Aug 09 09:53:50 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/09/qnx_blackberry/ <-- hmm Aug 09 09:55:56 what if apple acquire Nokia/? Aug 09 10:01:05 jiero: and what if $foo buys $bar? Aug 09 10:02:07 foo and baz come into a bar, baz buys foo a drink... Aug 09 10:02:08 andre__: no worry Aug 09 12:08:00 Verizon. Know anyone who works there? Aug 09 12:14:24 hello Aug 09 12:14:47 does anyone here know where in the boot process X is launched Aug 09 12:14:58 (on the N900) Aug 09 12:16:14 i cannot find it and i have browsed every init script Aug 09 12:16:22 of runlevel 2 Aug 09 12:16:52 as all of a sudden, in S22-af-services it checks if X is running yet Aug 09 12:17:10 while i havent found any code that executes Xorg Aug 09 12:24:17 i'm a layman peterbjornx. perhaps try to find hildon* in the scripts you mention :/ Aug 09 12:24:24 Somebody ban the idiot Aug 09 12:26:05 RST38h, which one? Aug 09 12:27:16 mayday_jay obv Aug 09 12:27:28 why? What did he do? Aug 09 12:28:57 oh Aug 09 12:28:58 ok Aug 09 12:30:33 -> mayday_jay is maemo binnengekomen Aug 09 12:30:33 <- mayday_jay is niet meer verbonden (Excess Flood) Aug 09 12:30:33 -> mayday_jay is maemo binnengekomen Aug 09 12:30:33 <- mayday_jay is niet meer verbonden (Excess Flood) Aug 09 12:30:33 -> mayday_jay is maemo binnengekomen Aug 09 12:30:34 <- mayday_jay is niet meer verbonden (Excess Flood) Aug 09 12:30:44 o, well nevermind Aug 09 12:30:49 you noticed already Aug 09 12:31:10 wow, IRC in dutch is still as crappy as it used to ;) Aug 09 12:34:37 yeah it is Aug 09 12:34:40 im using opera Aug 09 12:35:26 lcuk: fun in London lately? Aug 09 12:36:15 nothing of last few days can be described as fun Aug 09 12:37:04 lcuk: ok, I have skipped the quotation marks Aug 09 12:37:28 lcuk, joining in the "Clean Riot" thingie? Aug 09 12:37:51 everybody should Aug 09 12:38:03 lcuk: any expected consequences though? random strip searches? rectal CCTV installations? Aug 09 12:38:48 RST38h, some people's lives got ruined. Aug 09 12:47:03 crash: that I have figured out from the videos Aug 09 12:47:41 crash: the extent of the mayhem is not clear though, when watching it from afar Aug 09 12:49:49 does anyone here know where in the boot process X is launched Aug 09 12:50:27 xinit that starts from rc.d? Aug 09 12:51:32 what rc.d file Aug 09 12:52:06 i was viewing each script up to S22af-services which checks if X is running Aug 09 12:53:46 RST38h, a few streets have been wrecked Aug 09 12:55:04 but , where is X/startx/xinit being started Aug 09 13:08:05 Oh, rioters. Aug 09 13:10:21 btw NOK fell below $5 Aug 09 13:12:39 good job Flop Aug 09 13:14:55 Woot Aug 09 13:15:24 RST38h, half the market probably fell below $5 Aug 09 13:15:27 :P Aug 09 13:15:53 clearly a canadian ceo of a finnish company's solely responsible for the collapse of the entire american stock market Aug 09 13:16:03 Termana: Intel is holding, surprisingly Aug 09 13:23:06 Hooray for idiots in Washington. Aug 09 13:25:20 If anybody needs to be rioting it's the US. Aug 09 13:25:39 GAN: Won't happen, not right away anyway Aug 09 13:25:46 When it does, you will not like it, too Aug 09 13:26:59 these guys aren't rioting because of austerity measures Aug 09 13:27:16 Nobody is saying austerity measures are to blame Aug 09 13:27:26 and anyway you guys in the US have happily been spending your bonds to avoid too much pain thus far Aug 09 13:27:39 lardman: just wait =( Aug 09 13:27:46 RST38h: indeed Aug 09 13:28:21 lardman, hey, I didn't vote for them. Aug 09 13:28:34 GAN900: no worries, just the view of an outsider Aug 09 13:28:36 lardman: this shit usually happens when you have got abundance of young males who do not have much to do and [most importantly] do not expect to have anything to do or make any change to anything Aug 09 13:28:47 lardman; So, they make change the only way they know Aug 09 13:28:57 When the bribe money for your constituents runs out the taxpayer isn't responsible for footing a bigger bill. Aug 09 13:29:00 RST38h: yeah, seems to be a small part of a generation who have no hopes Aug 09 13:29:13 RST38h, are you talking about the riots or the US economy now? Aug 09 13:29:13 Cut the entitlements, cut the military spending, cut the subsidies. Aug 09 13:29:18 lardman: whether it happens in UK or fucking Kyrgyzstan or Palestine is of no importance Aug 09 13:29:35 Cut the drug war, cut the TSA, privatize the FAA. Aug 09 13:29:40 GAN900: I don't know the specifics over here, but seems similar to the plans that are being implemented here Aug 09 13:29:48 s/over here/over there Aug 09 13:29:53 Ah, General, you will absolutely *love* Dan Simmons' "Flashback" Aug 09 13:30:25 lardman, the White House is pushing for socialism Aug 09 13:30:37 and the Senate is pushing for bribes for their voters. Aug 09 13:30:48 Sorry, but this is no socialism Aug 09 13:31:04 GAN900: oh let me guess, another I.T Libertarian? Aug 09 13:31:14 * RST38h sometimes wishes Obama pushed for *real* socialism. That would be fun. Aug 09 13:31:27 Obama is what a democrat? Aug 09 13:31:35 lardman, yes Aug 09 13:31:47 and democrats are more left wing than republicans? Aug 09 13:31:56 Starting with tough price controls on medical services and enfing with nationalizing largest banks. Aug 09 13:31:57 democrats are to the left of republicans Aug 09 13:32:11 I am forced to stab my eyes every night watching Fox News because there is no interest Australian shows Aug 09 13:32:12 but compared to european parties, they are farther to the right than most conservative parties! Aug 09 13:32:21 radiofree: ok, that was my assumption from the default business Aug 09 13:32:21 But at least I get some laughs Aug 09 13:32:32 Termana: Surely there should be a BBC channel somewhere? Or are you at a US military base? Aug 09 13:32:39 radiofree: yeah, that's a difficult thing to get a handle on Aug 09 13:32:46 for us over here anyway Aug 09 13:33:16 RST38h, in Australia. I have pay-tv, but it's mostly repeats and crap. I have BBC I think, and CNN. And then all the other channels they chuck on Aug 09 13:33:17 it's like health care, how can that not be something worth having? Republicans just shout the word "SOCIALISM!!" and most people revert back to the cold war Aug 09 13:33:28 RST38h, too socialist for my blood. Aug 09 13:33:37 ^ see Aug 09 13:33:39 and Sky News Aug 09 13:33:40 radiofree, that's a vast simplification of the issue. Aug 09 13:33:40 GAN: Look at it logically then Aug 09 13:33:54 but they all seem boring. Even though I disagree with a lot of what is said on Fox News Aug 09 13:33:54 GAN: This is no fucking socialism. Not really. Aug 09 13:34:12 radiofree: healthcare is certainly worth having but it has to be done efficiently Aug 09 13:34:42 RST38h, I'm for demand based healthcare. Aug 09 13:34:45 GAN: Just a relatively approval worthy attempt to give you afforable health care, a failed attempt too Aug 09 13:34:46 which is an issue we have here Aug 09 13:34:52 Keep the idiocy out. Aug 09 13:34:58 Keep prices down. Aug 09 13:35:12 GAN: Having a federal health care plan would do that Aug 09 13:35:15 RST38h, Obamacare is unworkable. Aug 09 13:35:27 GAN: Dunno, did not get into details Aug 09 13:35:36 No, look at Medicare and Medicade to see how well the Feds can work it. Aug 09 13:35:40 They can't. Aug 09 13:35:41 From what I saw the problem with free healthcare in the US is that is annoys the people who pay their taxes and have provate healthcare that they will pay for those who don't have health insurance Aug 09 13:35:46 that's why they need to fix it Aug 09 13:35:49 GAN: But having a federally managed insurance plan does not sound like such bad idea to me Aug 09 13:35:58 lardman: Ah no Aug 09 13:35:59 yes, what is the quote about the american poor/working class Aug 09 13:36:08 lardman: The problem is not with annoying stupid people Aug 09 13:36:17 they don't see themselves as poor, rather temporarily embarrassed millionaires Aug 09 13:36:18 But as radiofree has so aptly demonstrated, you can't argue with feel-good emotions. Aug 09 13:36:27 Then you're just an evil rich white person. Aug 09 13:36:30 lardman: The problem is with the whole hc insurance industry that will see its business model disappear Aug 09 13:37:06 and they (and other large industrial bodies) hold serious sway afair over there Aug 09 13:37:10 lardman: there are huge non-profits there, making huge margins, paying no taxes, enriching whoever is managing them Aug 09 13:37:26 which is due to what, the way that senatorial campaigns are funded? Aug 09 13:37:40 lardman, them, and unions Aug 09 13:37:42 lardman: more or less Aug 09 13:37:57 any group who holds sway over money and voters holds sway over elected officials. Aug 09 13:38:06 basically, GAN is correct Aug 09 13:38:13 is this all transparent or hidden - i.e. do you have lists of donations made to each senator and from whom? Aug 09 13:38:22 and for how much Aug 09 13:38:25 Stick the money going towards health insurance into individual savings accounts Aug 09 13:38:27 lardman: yes and no Aug 09 13:38:32 and switch to a demand-based system Aug 09 13:38:42 GAN: Nah, that will also fail Aug 09 13:38:42 Competition goes up, prices go down, quality goes up. Aug 09 13:38:42 GAN900: what's a demand based system? Aug 09 13:38:52 lardman, pay when you need it. Aug 09 13:38:54 what exactly is a demand-based system? Aug 09 13:39:02 if you can't afford to pay you can't be treated? Aug 09 13:39:03 GAN: It will fail as the hc prices inflate and your account won't be able to keep up Aug 09 13:39:04 Like buying groceries. Aug 09 13:39:12 GAN900: won't that be very expensive? Aug 09 13:39:14 the gov here(.si) scrapped the partial participation through health insurance simply because most of the money going to the insurance companies doesn't end up in the hc budget Aug 09 13:39:32 GAN: So, at least as far as hc is concerned, some price controls are needed. Or an artifical alternative like afederal hc plan. Aug 09 13:39:39 ruskie: yeah that seems to be a major problem with adding an extra layer Aug 09 13:39:47 ok, so you think that will drive down the common prices, what if someone gets a rare type of cancer that requires specialist treatment? Aug 09 13:40:01 I'm happy we have national health care around here though Aug 09 13:40:05 lardman, hardly. Aug 09 13:40:18 Doctors and hospitals will actually have to compete for your business Aug 09 13:40:30 Well they still do right now Aug 09 13:40:32 instead of competing to get on insurance providers lists. Aug 09 13:40:35 GAN900: why do you trust in the benevolence of "the markets" so much? Aug 09 13:40:41 Ultimately it'll drive prices down Aug 09 13:40:46 haven't they already shown themselves to be pretty much the opposite? Aug 09 13:40:47 GAN900: my business by proxy though, as people won't be able to afford it themselves Aug 09 13:40:50 Really? You think so? Aug 09 13:40:52 radiofree, that statement is so fundamentally flawed. . . . Aug 09 13:40:52 Why? Aug 09 13:41:24 GAN: You do understand that it is in the best interest of all market players to keep prices up? Aug 09 13:41:32 The two biggest components to health costs right now are overconsumption and insurance overhead. Aug 09 13:41:38 * lardman is enjoying this conversation, but must crack on with some coding Aug 09 13:41:40 RST38h, it's not. Aug 09 13:41:53 GAN: And the only way the prices can go down is in the result of a price war, event completely unwanted by all the players? Aug 09 13:41:56 Somebody will figure out they can get more customers if they charge reasonable prices. Aug 09 13:42:04 over-consumption, of health care? is that a joke? Aug 09 13:42:13 RST38h, you're talking about a monopoly or duopoly situation. Aug 09 13:42:24 GAN: oligopoly rather Aug 09 13:42:31 Yes. Aug 09 13:42:49 GAN: But anyway, you are forgetting that these guys need to maximize profit, not throughput Aug 09 13:43:16 GAN: And maximizing throughput is only one of many ways to maximize profit. Aug 09 13:43:31 GAN: Not very effective or safe one BTW Aug 09 13:43:37 radiofree, I'm talking about testing without justification from symptoms or other indicators. Aug 09 13:43:38 radiofree: no. Procedures carried out for the purpose of carrying them out, with limited evidence they help patients. Aug 09 13:43:52 Like running cat scans on anybody coming in with any kind of trauma. Aug 09 13:43:56 GAN: Do consider other ways and then you may get really scared Aug 09 13:44:00 radiofree: Not to mention the elderly hanging on for another couple of weeks. Aug 09 13:44:28 GAN: I mean all these are ok with groceries where demand is elastic Aug 09 13:44:51 GAN: But hc is no groceries, it has got pretty stiff deman curve Aug 09 13:45:10 GAN: Same goes for most of the utilities BTW Aug 09 13:50:00 RST38h, I feel that I'm more qualified to make healthcare decisions for myself than Washington is Aug 09 13:50:29 GAN: But Washington has never intended to make any hc decisions for you, just give you an option Aug 09 13:50:35 and I'd rather see private charities, who actually have money and incentive to help people, provide for those who can't than Washington. Aug 09 13:50:42 RST38h, bullshit. Aug 09 13:51:08 GAN: No, really - the plan was to have an optional federal hc plan you can enroll in, OR you can enroll into a private plan of your choice Aug 09 13:51:29 Making it illegal not to have health insurance isn't not "choice". Aug 09 13:51:34 GAN: Which changes nothing to the current private hc plan customers BUT drops private hc prices through the floor Aug 09 13:51:40 GAN: Ah you mean that one Aug 09 13:51:52 GAN: Yes, I found that part funny too :) Aug 09 13:51:55 and it DOES change private plans. Aug 09 13:52:18 Invoking the commerce clause on a non-action is particularly revealing. Aug 09 13:52:30 GAN: It is pretty much just a way to tax you a little extra. BTW, MA has it in their laws Aug 09 13:52:39 And they DO have a state hc plan Aug 09 13:52:53 Costs something like $86/year in taxes, I think Aug 09 13:53:19 States have that power under the constitution Aug 09 13:53:26 I have not heard anybody complain about the MA plan. Aug 09 13:53:27 The Federal government does not. Aug 09 13:53:41 I mean, they do complain about taxes all the time but not about this particular item Aug 09 13:53:48 I have. Aug 09 13:53:53 Quite vocally. Aug 09 13:54:16 Either way, individual states should do whatever their voters feel is appropriate. Aug 09 13:54:28 briefly stepping back on topic, what does a preceding pair of colons mean, with no class? E.g. ::socketpair() Aug 09 13:54:29 enough of the crappy states discussions. Aug 09 13:54:33 Who cares about the US of A Aug 09 13:54:35 Dunno, I also agree that forcing everyone to have a plan federally is stupid Aug 09 13:54:43 The federal government doesn't quite have that freedom of action under the constitution Aug 09 13:55:01 Especially if you do not provide an affordable option for this plan Aug 09 13:55:19 lardman: default namespace Aug 09 13:55:28 lardman: in your case, probably std:: Aug 09 13:55:47 crashanddie, people who live here. But lardman has a real question so it'd time to stfu. Aug 09 13:56:09 RST38h: I guessed as much, unfortunately they don't belong to std but are in signal.h Aug 09 13:56:31 lardman: I think that belongs to std:: somehow :) Aug 09 13:57:03 lardman, I think it's global scope, not default namespace. Aug 09 13:57:09 yeah, perhaps I need to include rather than signal.h or somesuch Aug 09 13:57:19 crashanddie, probably the Chinese, Japanese, South Koreans and Germans, too. :P Aug 09 13:57:40 crash is probably right Aug 09 13:57:40 GAN900, do you know anyone who works at Verizon Miami? Aug 09 13:57:43 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/unix-signals.html is what I'm following, perhaps foolishly ;) Aug 09 13:58:59 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/b451xz31(VS.80).aspx Aug 09 13:59:06 global variable/function. Aug 09 13:59:56 crashanddie, Miami is, like, 250 miles away by car. Aug 09 14:00:25 GAN900, glad you're offering to go there yourself. $200 daily rate working for you? Aug 09 14:00:44 crash: Will he get a gun for this job? Aug 09 14:00:58 He might get a gun pointed at him. Aug 09 14:01:36 crash: Verizon is *that* tough? Aug 09 14:01:53 In all seriousness, one of our customers contracted Verizon to provide VoIP lines between EU and US (about 900 of them), and they're not answering to emails and we can't get a hold of anyone remotely technical. Aug 09 14:02:25 We explain we're a telco operator, and they're asking if we're calling for an iPoone or whatever. Aug 09 14:02:46 In this case, I'd say we're getting iPwned. Aug 09 14:03:35 crash: A moment. Aug 09 14:03:39 RST38h, got one. :P Aug 09 14:03:51 there might be an easier way to get this solved Aug 09 14:04:24 GAN: Ah, then it will be the ultimate deathmatch: a disgruntled customer vs the phone company operator!!! Aug 09 14:05:18 crash: Try one of these: http://gethuman.com/Verizon-customer-service_1305.html Aug 09 14:05:58 crashanddie, Verizon is pretty terrible. Aug 09 14:06:11 Yeah, I know. Aug 09 14:06:28 crashanddie: Don't they have dedicated 'we're spending silly amounts of money' lines? Aug 09 14:06:30 We get more responsiveness out of BT on christmas night than from Verizon during business hours. Aug 09 14:06:41 Speed: no Aug 09 14:06:53 SpeedEvil, there are, but they are restricted from US callers. Aug 09 14:06:57 Hell, I am getting almost instance response from MGTS Aug 09 14:07:20 While with Verizon it is always 45+ minutes of voice menus and human-manned voice menus Aug 09 14:07:51 RST38h, you do realise I'm the product manager of one of the servers that powers those menus, right ;) Aug 09 14:08:09 crash: Well, you are not buying them to torture your customers, are you? Aug 09 14:08:24 Buying? I'm developing it. Aug 09 14:08:40 Bastard. Explains everything Aug 09 14:09:05 crash: BTW, please, tell me, those Indians, do you keep them in dungeons, feeding them at the endo f the day based on the number of customers they sent away cussing? Aug 09 14:09:26 Heck, the last side-project I worked on was a maze of menus and "Wait, don't hang up, we've got something special for you!" at 1.5euro per minute. Aug 09 14:09:49 RST38h: "std::" is not the default namespace, it's the namespace used by the Standard C++ Library... normally you'd use "using namespace std;" at the top of the program to make the "std" namespace searched automatically when a namespace isn't explicitly specified Aug 09 14:10:02 * RST38h reconsiders his plans not to mention crashanddie to the Tentacled One Aug 09 14:10:18 villager: sorry, my mistake. Aug 09 14:10:56 RST38h, then again, it's a charlatan service (palm reading/future), so us making money out of people's credulity only feels like natural selection. Aug 09 14:11:03 Or at least, that's how I help myself sleep at night. Aug 09 14:11:42 crashanddie: Ok, no extermination then, just a life-long case of hemorrhoids. Aug 09 14:13:00 hello Aug 09 14:13:10 is there a nice easy way to turn on the flash to use as a torch Aug 09 14:13:12 ? Aug 09 14:13:18 vi: yes Aug 09 14:13:30 vi: the Extras has got the Flashlight app. Aug 09 14:13:32 i.e. echo 1 > /sys/somthing/somthing/flash/enable Aug 09 14:13:37 vi__: no Aug 09 14:13:48 bah Aug 09 14:13:49 vi__: It's a v4l control. Aug 09 14:14:02 So you need to open /dev/vide0? and then do the rleevant ioctl Aug 09 14:14:10 is flashlight applet the only thing available? Aug 09 14:14:27 I have use v4lctl to turn it on Aug 09 14:14:34 But it goes off immediately, and only flashes Aug 09 14:14:45 As v4lctl closes the FD Aug 09 14:14:46 SpeedEvil: is it acheivable from a shell script? Aug 09 14:15:04 vi__: I'm going to say probably not. Aug 09 14:15:10 At least, not withanything I've seen. Aug 09 14:15:13 vi__: Why? Aug 09 14:15:52 because I want to have the option of a flashlight without the stupid applet that cause >200 wakeups per 30s Aug 09 14:16:05 vi__: Err - why? Aug 09 14:16:17 Wakeups are - generally - a lie. Aug 09 14:16:28 uh, you want to save battery while using the flash? Aug 09 14:16:32 speedevil now that is not strictly true Aug 09 14:16:39 They are a very, very poor indication of power consumption in any but the idle state. Aug 09 14:16:43 in any case, not a shell script, but could be done in a very short C program Aug 09 14:16:46 Even then, they are not great. Aug 09 14:16:50 NO! I want to save battery when I am NOT using the flash! Aug 09 14:16:58 a python script might also be able to do it, maybe Aug 09 14:16:59 vi__: Somethings wrong the. Aug 09 14:17:10 vi__: I get no extra wakeups from the flashlight applet Aug 09 14:17:24 Typical idle times of several seconds. Aug 09 14:17:30 mm Aug 09 14:17:50 Youare unplugging it andblanking the screen before running powertop? Aug 09 14:18:01 Ideally turning the net off, and doing this through screen? Aug 09 14:18:12 to run powertop I : Aug 09 14:18:29 sleep 30; powertop && powertop && powertop Aug 09 14:18:35 See above Aug 09 14:18:35 then average the results Aug 09 14:18:42 in offline mode Aug 09 14:18:56 With screen blanked? Aug 09 14:19:01 ofc Aug 09 14:19:08 thats what the 30 seconds is for Aug 09 14:19:10 And unplugged from USB? Aug 09 14:19:13 yes Aug 09 14:19:26 HAve you been screwing withthemenus? Aug 09 14:19:35 And got a nice short menu screen? Aug 09 14:19:38 err appmenu Aug 09 14:19:53 appmenu? Aug 09 14:20:38 The appmenu is as is, I hav'nt added/removed anything Aug 09 14:20:58 Pastebin plz Aug 09 14:21:01 (powertop) Aug 09 14:22:55 can I setup my Facebook Account in this internal Chat system on nokia n900? Is it safe enough? Aug 09 14:23:24 markinfo: as safe as any other software written by basement dwelling nerds Aug 09 14:23:31 The flashlight widget didn't increase the amount of wakeups for me Aug 09 14:27:48 markinfo: facebook chat can be accessed as a ordinary Jabber account Aug 09 14:28:10 not sure what you mean about "safe enough" Aug 09 14:29:03 Would be better to setup Facebook in Pidgin? as in this internal program? (besides - what is the name of it?) Aug 09 14:29:28 empathy? Aug 09 14:30:06 markinfo: depends if you prefer pidgin to the Conversations app Aug 09 14:30:25 * ShadowJK checked source, flashlight-plugin has a 1s timer running whenever flashlight is on (LEDs on), checking the status of hte led controller Aug 09 14:30:31 markinfo: (the conversations app is the same one you use for SMS - it can send IMs in a similar interface) Aug 09 14:30:49 hm - advantage of pidgin - i know where are the contacts stored. Aug 09 14:31:08 what is the name this app for chats? (SMS too) Aug 09 14:31:47 Conversations Aug 09 14:33:05 markinfo: the application is called "Conversations". when you said "empathy", you may have been thinking of "telepathy" Aug 09 14:33:24 Telepathy - it is in Gnome Aug 09 14:33:42 telepathy is the (non-maemo-specific) framework used for IM Aug 09 14:33:49 Man man man, 2011 really isn't a good year for Sony. Now their warehouses are set ablaze. Aug 09 14:34:10 well - facebook account to do in Conversations or in Pidgin? Aug 09 14:34:28 markinfo: i use facebook chat in conversations and it works fine Aug 09 14:34:50 it's just a regular Jabber account. You may need to enable it on teh facebook website, for existing facebook accounts at least Aug 09 14:41:55 I had it in Pidgin on my notebook. But another more important Question. If I want backup contacts data from this Program "Conversations" - how to do that? Aug 09 15:02:48 is it possible to compile BTRFS support into maemo's kernel Aug 09 15:09:11 peterbjornx, I doubt it. Aug 09 15:16:37 peterbjornx: you don't really need it, do you Aug 09 15:16:40 unless you want your root FS to be on btrfs Aug 09 15:16:56 well, /usr/ too Aug 09 15:17:00 because ~optification Aug 09 15:17:08 ~optification Aug 09 15:17:09 well, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3 Aug 09 15:19:01 haha Aug 09 15:19:11 the N9 won't be available in the US Aug 09 15:21:35 crashanddie: Similar response to TheInq about teh UK Aug 09 15:21:52 lmao Aug 09 15:21:52 seems that Elop is really worried about n9 success Aug 09 15:21:58 in the negative sense of course Aug 09 15:22:17 he cannot afford that Aug 09 15:22:26 On top of the N9 coming in variants that run "meego" and "mango"? :| Aug 09 15:22:35 mango? Aug 09 15:22:39 wtf is mango? Aug 09 15:22:43 "Windows 7 Mango" Aug 09 15:23:20 http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/228521/windows_phone_7_mango_first_look_at_the_hot_new_features.html Aug 09 15:24:02 heh, "We had enough of troubles with Windows on our computers. Let's keep our phones Windows free!" Aug 09 15:24:12 yes Aug 09 15:24:16 moin moin Aug 09 15:24:27 I wouldn't mind a Windows phone assuming it worked for what I needed. Aug 09 15:24:48 MANGO! MANGO! YEAH! Aug 09 15:26:32 On top of that, the UIs were developed to be the same for the WP7 and Meego variants. Aug 09 15:34:47 I have one windows device I'm happy with. Aug 09 15:34:52 GPS Aug 09 15:34:56 'just works' Aug 09 15:38:36 could you post the charge.sh URL for wget c+p plese Aug 09 15:41:56 is there anyone here who knows from what script xinit/startx/Xorg gets executed Aug 09 15:42:15 couldnt find it in rc2.d and rcS Aug 09 15:42:27 peterbjornx: Look in /etc/rc.d/x.post or something Aug 09 15:43:58 /etc/X11/Xsession.post ? Aug 09 15:44:10 ShadowJK: need charge script! buried alive under luggage in a car, wih N900 on generic charger Aug 09 15:44:16 thats called by the X initialization script Aug 09 15:44:33 i need to know what calls that Aug 09 15:46:17 /etc/event.d/xomap? Aug 09 15:47:17 That seems to be called from the sgx driver init in the same dir Aug 09 15:47:50 yeah - which is brought up by hal Aug 09 15:49:24 ain't hal dead? Aug 09 15:50:48 SpeedEvil: could you link me to shadowjks chargescript? Aug 09 15:50:58 No Aug 09 15:51:09 I don't have a copy around, and don't remember where I got it. Aug 09 15:51:24 I have one that oesn't really work well - I need to reboot after or BME sulks Aug 09 15:51:39 enivax? Aug 09 15:52:12 http://enivax.net/jk/n900/charge21.sh.txt Aug 09 15:52:15 I need 100+ mA for the next 5h Aug 09 15:52:21 seems to have turned up in my awesomebar Aug 09 15:52:21 thnx Aug 09 15:52:26 Which looks right Aug 09 15:52:44 -21 Aug 09 15:58:32 doc Aug 09 16:00:29 DocScrutinizer51 Aug 09 16:06:30 SpeedEvil: what does it do? Persuades n900 to charge with fewer amps? Aug 09 16:09:47 back, isnt that bad practice, starting anything outside of init during boot? Aug 09 16:10:39 lol bad practice Aug 09 16:10:39 ~optification Aug 09 16:10:39 i heard optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3 Aug 09 16:12:19 yoh. NAC rising, thanks Aug 09 16:13:14 why isnt it possible to create a different partition mapping where /usr AND /opt reside on the eMCC Aug 09 16:13:17 *eMMC Aug 09 16:13:26 anyone know how to compare arbitrary QVariants to see if their contents are identical? Aug 09 16:13:56 I could do a to*() operation, but some of those will only convert certain payload types Aug 09 16:14:36 peterbjornx: supposedly some stuff needed during boot is in /usr Aug 09 16:15:17 peterbjornx: i.e., the "systeminit is FUBAR" part Aug 09 16:15:26 ok, more bad design, but shouldnt it be possible to mount the eMMC before it loads init, like multiboot can do? Aug 09 16:16:45 not with the standard kernel I think Aug 09 16:17:07 peterbjornx: the mr hands video needs sound Aug 09 16:17:18 maybe the powerkernel could be made to do it Aug 09 16:17:20 yay for pulseaudio in the early stages of the boot Aug 09 16:18:21 multiboot is able to boot from sd cards and emmc with standard kernel isnt it Aug 09 16:18:23 anhy Aug 09 16:19:09 peterbjornx: well that's different, that's still booting with a single rootfs Aug 09 16:19:18 *anyhow i use a custom kernel with framebuffer console for debugging so if i try to do this ( i know its risky) i can see what goes wrong Aug 09 16:19:33 yes but afaik mount and the FS modules dont use /usr Aug 09 16:21:10 peterbjornx: and neither does init... under FHS, init starts the boot scripts, which then mounts /usr... it is not mounted before init... you were talking about mounting it before init Aug 09 16:23:06 i know, that way any component reliant on /usr would have it mounted Aug 09 16:23:42 what i mean is creating a preinit script that loads the necessary modules and mounts /usr , and then starts init Aug 09 16:24:18 edheldil: more amps, under some circumstances. Aug 09 16:25:05 that would have to be an initrd... which, as mentioned, could probably be put into the powerkernel Aug 09 16:25:50 no it wont have to be, as (afaik) the busybox utils and the kernel dont require /usr Aug 09 16:28:55 while the bootscripts started by init do... Aug 09 16:30:07 I'm sure more people would have repartitioned it like that if it was easy Aug 09 16:30:33 as a test ill try to mount /home before init even gets executed Aug 09 16:31:40 good luck Aug 09 16:33:22 as the very same script already mounts /sys , /proc, /tmp and sets up /dev Aug 09 16:33:45 so loading ext2 module and mounting /home shouldnt be very hard Aug 09 16:35:52 that's started by init, isn't it? Aug 09 16:36:29 no Aug 09 16:36:31 it isnt Aug 09 16:36:34 it starts init Aug 09 16:37:31 btw why is there nothing on this in the wiki: vanilla preinit allows root device choosing from serial console Aug 09 16:37:49 its the script that shows the R&D info on the NOKIA screen Aug 09 17:22:47 ~ping Aug 09 17:23:13 pong Aug 09 17:29:33 ~ping Aug 09 17:30:48 DocScrutinizer, what happened to infobot? Aug 09 17:31:13 why? Aug 09 17:31:47 rebooted 23m ago Aug 09 17:32:04 Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer51) Aug 09 17:32:15 aah. Aug 09 17:32:26 ~+uptime Aug 09 17:32:26 - Uptime for infobot - Aug 09 17:32:26 Now: 24m 7s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux Aug 09 17:32:27 1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 2010 Aug 09 17:32:27 2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 2009 Aug 09 17:32:27 3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug 4 17:38:59 2009 Aug 09 17:32:54 since it didn't respond to my ping, I thought I was disconnected Aug 09 17:34:21 administrating an ircbot via N900 while buried under lugage in a car on its way to chaos champ, damn I feel like a freak Aug 09 17:35:52 DocScrutinizer51, could be worse. Aug 09 17:36:22 :)) Aug 09 17:37:34 19:36:00 up 105 days, 3:47, 8 users, load average: 0.15, 0.22, 0.23 Aug 09 18:07:50 http://www.reghardware.com/2011/08/09/ps3_controller_gets_android_support/ <-- hmm Aug 09 18:09:02 DocScrutinizer51 Aug 09 18:10:20 can somebody help me Aug 09 18:14:23 hello anyone here ? Aug 09 18:34:47 no I'm traveling Aug 09 18:35:13 Vockerode Aug 09 18:39:32 i have no zoomfunction in angrybirds season i installed a angrybirds-mido.fayad.sh keymap file but i didnt work can anyone help me Aug 09 18:40:39 Hi. I want to add a new key using "about: config" in the browser on my N900, but I don't know how. I can use the search bar at the top to locate existing keys, but how do I add a new key? Any idea? Aug 09 18:43:15 I seem to recall that doesnt work Aug 09 18:43:39 DocScrutinizer51, how long is the damn car ride? Aug 09 18:45:41 some 6h Aug 09 18:45:57 2..3 left Aug 09 18:46:49 DocScrutinizer51, damn, long drive. Aug 09 18:46:50 can anyone help me Aug 09 18:48:47 Hm, ok, what I really want is to fake my user agent, because some of my favourite sites recognize me now as a mobile user and present their stupid mobile layout to me. Any hints how to fake the user agent? Aug 09 18:53:27 about:config :P or download some plugin... Aug 09 18:59:26 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Aug 09 18:59:45 nobody here? Aug 09 19:02:22 NIN101: As I already said, I cannot add a new string to "about: config", this sucks. And I found "HideUserAgent 0.3.7", but it has a package karma of -6 and is in extras-testing only. Aug 09 19:03:43 well I just found out how to do it Aug 09 19:03:59 I mean, editing in about:config Aug 09 19:05:24 with the stylus, tap long enough on an entry... Aug 09 19:07:45 doesn't seam to be easy. Aug 09 19:08:50 oh, it is also possible with the return key on the keyboard. Aug 09 19:10:43 NIN101: Ah, ok, cool, works for me now as well. Now I tried to change "general.useragent.vendor" do something else. How do I save these settings? If I just close the browser window and start "about: config" again, then the old value is back again. Aug 09 19:12:18 hmm, you are right Aug 09 19:17:40 NIN101: I'm currently browsing talk.maemo.org and this issue has come up over and over again. Some say that the problem is that some background processes keep MicroB running and erasing the change. Aug 09 19:18:04 I think it's "browserd" Aug 09 19:18:06 mihu: I suppose you could try to always leave at least one browser window open to keep the browser process from shutting down Aug 09 19:18:23 works for me Aug 09 19:18:38 heh don't kill browserd Aug 09 19:19:05 if it shuts down, then I guess it loads default settings when it restarts Aug 09 19:20:24 hmm... wonder where those default settings are loaded from... Aug 09 19:20:31 .mozilla/microb/prefs.js Aug 09 19:20:35 or something Aug 09 19:21:58 NIN101: That's true. I tried to manually change these as well, but they are overwritten as well. And I did not find a way to stop the browser from relaunching. There is an init script /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon.init but a "stop" there does not work. Heck, I'm familiar administrating my system on the command line, but my N900 just won't let me. Aug 09 19:22:18 http://www.forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=73315 is this realy a good thing? Aug 09 19:22:25 there is a way, I'm sure. Aug 09 19:23:56 DocScrutinizer51, let us know if you see pupnik there. Aug 09 19:24:14 mihu: hmm, not true. Just changed the file and rebootet. Before starting the browser, my string was there, after that, they have been overwritten again. Aug 09 19:24:50 I dunno how he looks Aug 09 19:28:15 mihu: /usr/lib/microb-engine/defaults/pref Aug 09 19:28:19 looks interesting Aug 09 19:31:54 brb Aug 09 19:36:43 NIN101: You made my day. Thank you very much. I just added "pref("general.useragent.override", "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110628 Ubuntu/10.10 (maverick) Firefox/3.6.18");" to the end of the file, did a "killall -9 browser browserd" and loaded the page again. I checked with http://whatsmyuseragent.com/ and it shows the correct string and now I'm not redirected to the mobile version of the site any more Aug 09 19:42:31 mihu: yw Aug 09 20:20:10 question... what kernel does the cssu maemo5 include? I've been trying to use mobile hotspot, and I guess I need the power kernel, but I don't want it to break anything in regards to the current cssu maemo 5 I have installed Aug 09 20:20:33 cssu doesnt come with kernel Aug 09 20:20:45 is there a dbus call to set the operator name Aug 09 20:20:53 I mean Aug 09 20:21:09 http://www.humblebundle.com/ Aug 09 20:21:14 where can I find the dbus call to set the operator name? Aug 09 20:21:16 Ending in about two hours. Aug 09 20:23:31 cetheh so, if I install power kernel would it screw anything up? Aug 09 20:23:58 also, I'm able to overclock, I thought u had to have a special kernel to be able to do that... Aug 09 20:23:58 nope Aug 09 20:24:17 you can use cssu with power kernel Aug 09 20:24:28 and power kernel allows you to fry your device too Aug 09 20:24:31 Dantonic: open xterm and type: Aug 09 20:24:35 uname -r Aug 09 20:25:25 2.6.28-omap1 Aug 09 20:26:02 then you cannot overclock Aug 09 20:27:17 oh... strange, thought I had the power kernel... I recently installed nitdroid, I wonder if it installed a different kernel Aug 09 20:27:34 would it mess up the dual boot if I change the kernel? Aug 09 20:27:45 see topic :P Aug 09 20:27:50 I dunno Aug 09 20:28:00 never bothered with that android pish Aug 09 20:28:24 you would need to install the multiboot package for the kernel you are installing Aug 09 20:28:26 the only reason I installed is so I can watch justintv cause it needs flash 10 Aug 09 20:28:30 or something Aug 09 20:28:40 lol Aug 09 20:28:52 I don't even own a TV Aug 09 20:29:04 heh Aug 09 20:30:05 You could always open a topic asking for help on TMO Aug 09 20:30:19 ok Aug 09 20:30:22 be warned though, read and do your research first Aug 09 20:30:36 or they'll rip you a new one Aug 09 20:30:54 well what's the worst that could happen if I re install power kernel? I wouldn't be able to boot into nitdroid? Aug 09 20:31:06 possibly yes Aug 09 20:31:17 but maemo will be fine right? Aug 09 20:31:28 id imagine so Aug 09 20:31:40 btw I dislike android too.... Aug 09 20:31:43 :P Aug 09 20:31:56 benn messing with it for a few days now... Aug 09 20:32:00 even if you fuck it up, you can always re-flash maemo kernel Aug 09 20:32:12 to fix everything Aug 09 20:32:19 yeah Aug 09 20:32:19 android blows Aug 09 20:32:31 the sooner ppl realise this the better Aug 09 20:32:32 I feel like I have no cpontrol over the os Aug 09 20:32:38 lols Aug 09 20:32:39 u can't close apps? Aug 09 20:32:42 wtf Aug 09 20:33:07 just 'background' them, it is the same thing Aug 09 20:33:08 I read on the internet: oh android does it for you, just don't worry about it... Aug 09 20:33:15 I'm like huh? Aug 09 20:33:19 well it does kinda Aug 09 20:33:24 I wanna close the goddamn app Aug 09 20:33:41 yeah idk Aug 09 20:33:59 made me realize how good maemo is... I hadn't tried android before Aug 09 20:34:10 but always thought it might be better Aug 09 20:34:18 too bad we can't get flash Aug 09 20:34:46 well, some dont really care for flash Aug 09 20:35:06 yeah but I do Aug 09 20:35:09 android is a nice simple OS for nice simple people. Aug 09 20:35:20 yeah I sure see that Aug 09 20:35:32 like symbian but without balls Aug 09 20:37:22 brb Aug 09 20:37:25 dinner Aug 09 20:37:27 | Aug 09 20:37:29 ! Aug 09 20:37:32 kk ty Aug 09 21:10:01 catching up on the 'meego coding competition' thread...it got interesting today :) Aug 09 21:16:24 heading over now! any judging start yet? Aug 09 21:16:52 last I heard the disqualified contestants were arguing Aug 09 21:20:38 ~dict lame Aug 09 21:20:41 Dictionary 'lame' (3 of 9): deprive of the use of a limb, especially a leg; "The accident has crippled her for life" ;; someone who doesn't understand what is going on ;; disabled in the feet or legs; "a crippled soldier"; "a game leg" . Aug 09 21:20:58 lol Aug 09 21:21:05 a 'game' leg Aug 09 21:21:21 I think that should be a 'gammy' leg Aug 09 21:21:43 did you hear about the man with a gammy leg named smith? Aug 09 21:22:02 * vi__ no, what did he call the other one? Aug 09 21:22:38 -_- il get my coat Aug 09 21:24:05 hey Aug 09 21:24:09 kernel-power-flasher: PreDepends: kernel-power (= 2.6.28-maemo42) but 1:2.6.28-10power47 is to be installed Aug 09 21:24:30 can't install the power kernel for some reason Aug 09 21:25:03 unmet dependencies Aug 09 21:29:22 so nice having 0 usable navigation apps on the n900 Aug 09 21:29:41 to correct... offline navigation apps Aug 09 21:29:45 ack Aug 09 21:38:18 http://www.humblebundle.com/ tick tick tick Aug 09 21:38:45 BOOM Aug 09 21:56:29 how to use asterisk * symbol in apt-get command? Aug 09 22:12:21 antman8969: yeah, there was some whining...seemed to involve abill_uk too, i dont think voting has started yet Aug 09 22:12:44 drama can be fun... Aug 09 22:30:35 ruskie: monav.openstreetmap.de Aug 09 23:37:57 what is the name of "user guide" package? i want to remove it via apt-get Aug 10 00:08:49 hell what a wind here Aug 10 00:21:47 yea!!!! Aug 10 00:22:01 good morning Aug 10 00:22:05 damn it Aug 10 00:22:37 better Aug 10 00:30:45 can anyone help with a kernel-power issue after installing nitdroid? I seem to have lost kernel-power, and am not sure how to get it back Aug 10 00:31:22 when I try installing it from app manager I get missing dependancies Aug 10 00:34:47 i get application packages missing: kernel-power.... Aug 10 00:35:01 but I can't find that package... where do I find it? Aug 10 00:47:24 can anyone help? Aug 10 00:51:42 :( Aug 10 02:55:41 is the addressbook file on the n900 really encrypted? (~/.osso-abook/db/addressbook.db) Aug 10 02:56:13 Fairly sure not Aug 10 02:56:21 It's just sql Aug 10 02:56:59 pretty much any sql command i do i get: Error: file is encrypted or is not a database Aug 10 02:57:11 or i can't just open it with sqlite3? Aug 10 02:57:39 ah- ok Aug 10 02:57:45 not working here either Aug 10 02:57:57 oh wait Aug 10 02:58:07 file addressbook.db gives me: addressbook.db: Berkeley DB (Hash, version 8, native byte-order) Aug 10 02:58:40 all those .db are not sqlite then... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 10 02:59:57 2011