**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 09 02:59:57 2011 Sep 09 06:01:45 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/08/microsoft_inks_licensing_deals_with_acer_and_viewsonic_over_chrome_and_android/ <-- sheesh... would people stop cowtowing to m$ already Sep 09 06:45:31 moo Sep 09 06:49:30 oink Sep 09 06:54:49 have you ever played with the hacks for ovi maps? (i.e. voice navigation + POI + few other things) Sep 09 06:55:30 * Sicelo has Sep 09 06:56:50 you using the python voice server, the OM voice server or the HTML5 version? Sep 09 06:59:14 OM Sep 09 06:59:26 works quite well :) Sep 09 06:59:41 iirc the python way is deprecated Sep 09 07:01:28 yeah I'm looking through the forum threads and trying to find out why om voice server isn't working in my case.. I'm using cormacb's index.html file and I have before renamed those sound files to .wav without success. I don't see the need to change the voice language as what I need is en_GB only Sep 09 07:02:41 does it run, or segfaults? Sep 09 07:03:31 it runs but no voice guidance Sep 09 07:04:24 I'm thinking of hacking the index.html script to include en_AU lol which is similar if anything to en_GB Sep 09 07:04:38 :/ do the sounds play on the the Command Tester tab? Sep 09 07:04:47 yup they sure do Sep 09 07:05:31 humm another possible reason might be due to me using symlinks... maybe it prefers binding mounts Sep 09 07:07:12 not for me, i just installed it, didn't even rename the voice files, used the correct index.html, and all worked fine afterwards Sep 09 07:07:36 when u start maps, does it ask if u want to use OM server? Sep 09 07:08:07 the question is which index.html file lol, blaizzen has his own, cormacb has his own and there's another bloke with his own Sep 09 07:08:11 nope Sep 09 07:08:35 let me see if i can find u the correct one just now :0 Sep 09 07:08:45 thanks, that'll be really handy :) Sep 09 07:15:54 lol, too many there.. here's the one i use: http://members.bombshellz.net/~sicelo/n900map.zip Sep 09 07:15:55 hi :o anyone tested the firefox mobile nightlies for maemo? Sep 09 07:16:13 i only get "permission denied" and i dont know how. i dont want to run it as root :D Sep 09 07:17:22 s/how/why Sep 09 07:17:34 Sicelo, thanks, I found this which seems to be Blaizzen posting a slightly more refined version of index.html that may depend on omvoiceserver: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=989134&postcount=362 Sep 09 07:18:11 I've tested nightly and it doesn't need root, for some reason your install is messed up Sep 09 07:18:29 i only extracted it. is there an installer? :O Sep 09 07:19:45 its supposed to come in a deb file and you could obtain it by following mozilla's mobile site Sep 09 07:19:58 i got it from nightly.mozilla.com Sep 09 07:20:04 and it is only a .tar.bz2 Sep 09 07:20:06 :O Sep 09 07:20:44 definitely the wrong place to get it :p Sep 09 07:20:58 well aurora (which you get at the mobile site) is not nightly :O Sep 09 07:21:12 nightly will one day become aurora Sep 09 07:21:45 and on the mobile site the arora version is for android only :s Sep 09 07:22:47 http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/m/ <-- that is aurora? Sep 09 07:22:55 no Sep 09 07:23:00 klick on all channels Sep 09 07:23:09 there is arora (which is not nightly) Sep 09 07:23:13 but only for android Sep 09 07:23:31 arora for maemo is only on http://nightly.mozilla.org Sep 09 07:23:41 but it is only a tar.bz2 :s Sep 09 07:24:22 afaik firefox mobile (or fennec even) for maemo is known as nightly once installed through usual method Sep 09 07:25:07 but it is not the same version :o the "normal" one you get on the mobile site is based on gecko 7 or 8 while nightly is gecko 9 Sep 09 07:25:10 there was this app to show wlan keys what was its name, i cant refind it Sep 09 07:25:29 arora is gecko 8 nightly is gecko 9 and normal version is gecko 7 Sep 09 07:26:05 cehteh`, show wlan keys what its name? gconftool? Sep 09 07:26:07 oh well even if i try to run it as root i get a permission denied :s Sep 09 07:26:27 sounds like a perms error :p needs to set +x Sep 09 07:27:07 * psycho_oreos in the meantime is distracted as he loads up fennec Sep 09 07:27:29 psycho_oreos: there was an plugin for the control panel (or was it standalone) .. giving a nice ui Sep 09 07:27:42 i did a chmod a+x :s Sep 09 07:27:49 and a chown user Sep 09 07:27:57 cehteh`, gconf editor or something like that? Sep 09 07:27:57 but nothing worked :o Sep 09 07:28:05 i guess they broke it at some point :D Sep 09 07:28:24 is the normal firefox version usable? the last time i tried it was way to slow :s Sep 09 07:28:57 WPA Key Editor :) .. i think Sep 09 07:29:09 psycho_oreos: i saied 'nice ui' :) Sep 09 07:29:35 its still slow (re fennec) Sep 09 07:29:43 meh Sep 09 07:29:52 is there any other good browser? :o Sep 09 07:30:04 cehteh`, oh that.. well I don't use WPA key editor or whatever you want to call it lol I'm predominantly a CLI man myself Sep 09 07:30:08 i mean the shipped one is good but it could be better :D Sep 09 07:30:28 there's opera but it has its own issues.. then there's macuco which also has its own issues :p Sep 09 07:30:38 in other words, name your poison :P Sep 09 07:30:42 :D yeah already tried them didnt like them xD Sep 09 07:30:53 then i guess i will stick with the shipped one :S Sep 09 07:31:07 there really should be a qt4 webkit browser :O Sep 09 07:31:11 a nice one :p Sep 09 07:32:04 yaccin, `Mozilla/5.0 (Maemo; Linux arm7l; rv:7.0a1) Gecko/20110531 Firefox/7.0a1 Fennec/7.0a1' <--- that's still gecko 7? Sep 09 07:32:16 yes :o Sep 09 07:32:49 Firefox/7.0a1 << rv:7.0a1 << Fennec/7.0a1 << Sep 09 07:32:49 :D Sep 09 07:34:14 I'm relatively a newb at gecko's numbering systems :p Sep 09 07:35:17 anyone knows if its possible to trigger a backup (the nokia app) automatically by alarmd? Sep 09 07:35:35 unattended Sep 09 07:40:12 yaccin, for nightly (that test build in tar.bz2 format) which binary did you run? Sep 09 07:40:32 i tried ./fennec and ./run-mozilla.sh Sep 09 07:42:22 apparently run-mozilla.sh requires extra switches and name of browser to run, fennec works in my case.. I decompressed the tarball into my /opt, ran ./fennec (after run-mozilla.sh and seeing that it won't run) as root which worked, just tried running as user and it still works Sep 09 07:42:42 ugh, s/fennec works/nightly works/ Sep 09 07:44:38 * RST38h yawns Sep 09 07:48:28 I've also been digging around aurora seeing if there's any reason as to why there's none for maemo, apparently there is but on maemo they're basing it on gecko 7 engine and the released aurora for maemo5 is 7.0a2 (which is only slightly newer than whats provided by the mozilla qt repos) Sep 09 07:48:38 https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/nightly/2011-08-09-04-20-42-mozilla-aurora-maemo5-gtk/ Sep 09 07:49:05 or hmm wait.. that's an old directory.. Sep 09 07:50:08 and nope, yaccin you're right yet again, its gecko 8: https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/nightly/latest-mozilla-aurora-maemo5-gtk/ but they seem to only have it released in gtk (as opposed to qt) Sep 09 07:50:45 firefox is always gtk Sep 09 07:50:57 except for that strange frankenstein experiment they did once Sep 09 07:51:02 which did not end that well :D Sep 09 07:52:47 and now you're telling me.. I used the qt version because I thought it was superior.. the truth is, its slow as hell.. maybe I should give gtk a dice instead Sep 09 07:53:41 https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/nightly/latest-mozilla-central-maemo5-gtk/ <--- fennec 9 (which you say its nightly), there's a deb file there so that might help you install a little easier :) Sep 09 08:01:46 Meanwhile: US Senate passes patent system reform bill, Obama expected to sign into law Sep 09 08:24:35 psycho_oreos: thx Sep 09 08:24:37 i try Sep 09 08:25:09 yaccin, essentially you have the whole family there lol, 7.0a2, 8.0a2, 9.0a1 Sep 09 08:25:52 and it looks like they have literally neglected to update their maemo repos.. oh well Sep 09 08:43:44 Morning, all Sep 09 10:56:36 the Galaxy SII isn't that bad Sep 09 10:57:07 http://www.reghardware.com/2011/09/09/microsoft_demos_windows_8_in_eight_second_boot/ Sep 09 11:12:36 so much for 24 hours DocScrutinizer, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1084856&postcount=853 Sep 09 11:12:56 been occupied here and there Sep 09 11:13:03 ? Sep 09 11:14:39 i promised to give feedback about current draw after using N900 hostmode Sep 09 11:52:34 aah Sep 09 11:57:12 hey guys if I build Qt in scratchbox, for the ARM target Sep 09 11:57:45 will my binaries be exactly the same like I would have built it directly on device? Sep 09 11:58:58 (not really exactly, i just wanna if differences are and what they would they be) Sep 09 12:06:18 Google has built a brand-new programming language for "structured web programming", one that appears to be suited to browser-based apps. Sep 09 12:06:23 Oh no not again... Sep 09 12:06:33 RST38h: link ? Sep 09 12:07:02 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/09/google_dart_web_programming_language/ Sep 09 12:22:17 X-Fade: ping (can you remove mp-fremantle-community-pr from Extras-devel, please? MohammadAG oopsed ;-)) Sep 09 15:54:36 omg live penguinbait Sep 09 16:01:57 tis true, I am alive Sep 09 16:04:57 Everybody run! Sep 09 16:05:30 how about a fast shuffle Sep 09 16:27:44 anyone here using the enna media centre on the n900? Sep 09 16:27:57 I was wondering if it works as a dlna control point Sep 09 16:34:09 scoobertron, if it uses dlna it should work Sep 09 16:34:25 so I could use it to control my hifi Sep 09 16:34:46 Im not sure about that Sep 09 16:34:54 I know I use a dlna server to stream media TO my N900 Sep 09 16:36:12 I have a dlna server that streams to my tv, hifi and n900, I just want a tool to control it all. Sep 09 16:36:50 Maybe Rygel can do it Sep 09 16:37:49 Zahaan as well Sep 09 16:38:13 Zahaan may be your best bet Sep 09 16:38:33 or is it Zhaan, I cant remember how its spelt Sep 09 16:38:35 I have been playing with zhaan. So far I have managed to get it to play one song and then crash. Sep 09 16:38:46 Which is kind of a success. Sep 09 16:39:49 Yeah ive never used it before Sep 09 16:39:58 It would be your best bet though Sep 09 17:32:26 hmm Sep 09 17:32:36 I wonder if anyone has made picture uploading automagic Sep 09 17:33:02 I would like to scp pics taken after a blessn900 session automatically.. is this at all doable? Sep 09 17:33:20 fcam > blessn900, but sure Sep 09 17:33:24 have rsync in a cron job Sep 09 17:33:38 hmm Sep 09 17:33:42 or get a button to launch it Sep 09 17:34:21 what's so better about fcam over blessn900? Sep 09 17:34:31 I actually think I have fcam since I have CSSU Sep 09 17:35:55 i always had crappy results from blessn900 \_o_/ Sep 09 17:36:09 if either of those has a way to specify a script to execute after a photo, you can use that Sep 09 17:36:18 but you probably want to group the uploads together Sep 09 17:36:26 so an extra button linked to rsync is probably better Sep 09 17:36:42 wonder if I can add the button to blessn900 D: Sep 09 18:36:13 50 virtual invisible karma point for the first one explaining what the command >> sed -e "s/ -t / -f /" -i /etc/X11/Xsession.post/21hildon-desktop << will cause (beyond the obvious edit of one letter), and why this is or is not a good thing :-D Sep 09 18:36:21 the contest starts... Sep 09 18:36:23 NOW Sep 09 18:37:09 DocScrutinizer: i dunno, read the man page Sep 09 18:37:17 kerio is ut Sep 09 18:37:20 out Sep 09 18:37:22 :( Sep 09 18:38:45 everybody on the bleachers wonders where's javispedro, the champion and winner of last contest. Will he join in late, will he miss on this contest? Sep 09 18:39:05 Hehe Sep 09 18:39:42 c'mon guys, there's an amazing 50 virtual invisible karma points waiting for the winner Sep 09 18:40:25 (and maybe even a memorial plate in the hall of fame of CSSU!) Sep 09 18:41:58 honestly, we'd need a review prior to shipping that, so please have a look Sep 09 18:42:57 Doc: Need I say that sacrifices are supposed to be submitted in human blood? Sep 09 18:43:03 what are the benefits, what are the possible side effects? Sep 09 18:45:48 I don't see the file Sep 09 18:45:57 I've got hildon-desktop-wait Sep 09 18:46:05 duh Sep 09 18:46:39 #!/bin/sh Sep 09 18:46:41 export HILDON_DESKTOP_APPS_PRESTART=auto Sep 09 18:46:42 # sadly, we have to use dsmetool here, so we cant respawn session.. Sep 09 18:46:43 /usr/sbin/dsmetool -c 3 -T 180 -m -17 -t /usr/bin/hildon-desktop Sep 09 18:47:00 . Sep 09 18:47:44 is what a IroN900:~# cat /etc/X11/Xsession.post/21hildon-desktop # gives me Sep 09 18:48:00 odd Sep 09 18:48:05 PR1.3+CSSU16.5 Sep 09 18:48:22 Oh - nocssu here yet Sep 09 18:48:25 I need to play with that Sep 09 18:48:49 I didn't think CSSU is messing with Xsession config (yet) Sep 09 18:49:57 * Sicelo has same setup as SpeedEvil Sep 09 18:50:11 that file doesn't exist on mine too Sep 09 18:50:17 see how important it is to get a review? Sep 09 18:50:36 MohammadAG: what'S up with yours? Sep 09 18:53:45 grep hildon-desktop -r /etc/X11 Sep 09 18:55:31 DocScrutinizer, dead battery Sep 09 18:55:33 hmm, make that >> sed -e "s/ -t / -f /" -i /etc/X11/Xsession.post/2*hildon-desktop << Sep 09 18:56:07 but afaik hildon-desktop was 17 on mine Sep 09 18:56:11 or was that camera-ui Sep 09 18:56:13 dang Sep 09 18:56:17 hmm, make that >> sed -e "s/ -t / -f /" -i /etc/X11/Xsession.post/*hildon-desktop << Sep 09 18:57:39 lol, it is there, 20hildon-desktop on mine Sep 09 18:57:50 same here on t900 Sep 09 18:58:26 so Sicelo SpeedEvil you're in? Sep 09 18:58:27 N900 booted Sep 09 18:58:37 ? Sep 09 18:58:49 [2011-09-09 20:30:49] 50 virtual invisible karma point for the first one explaining what the command >> sed -e "s/ -t / -f /" -i /etc/X11/Xsession.post/21hildon-desktop << will cause (beyond the obvious edit of one letter), and why this is or is not a good thing :-D Sep 09 18:59:13 s/21/*/ Sep 09 18:59:15 DocScrutinizer meant: [2011-09-09 20:30:49] 50 virtual invisible karma point for the first one explaining what the command >> sed -e "s/ -t / -f /" -i /etc/X11/Xsession.post/*hildon-desktop << will cause (beyond the obvious edit of one letter), and why this is... Sep 09 18:59:16 I'm not doing anything sensible today. Sep 09 19:00:43 I'm exhausted after pressure-washing the inside and outiside of a shed, to find that I need to attempt some welding or other fixes on it Sep 09 19:01:04 ooh Sep 09 19:01:28 welda shed?ing? Sep 09 19:01:37 damn touchpad Sep 09 19:01:47 welding? a shed? Sep 09 19:02:42 * Sicelo is out .. too much of a noob :P Sep 09 19:02:50 hmm Sep 09 19:03:01 hint: dsmetool --help Sep 09 19:03:11 i 'm onthat already Sep 09 19:03:42 i'd say it's bad Sep 09 19:03:44 :/ Sep 09 19:03:49 why? Sep 09 19:05:07 in the even that hildon-desktop cant start properly, you seem to have no other means to get control of the device Sep 09 19:05:12 done, time to crash hildon-desktop Sep 09 19:05:20 besides taking battery out :/ Sep 09 19:10:39 Sicelo: what do you think was the operation sequence with an unmodified system in that situation? Sep 09 19:11:36 I think the alternative to "have to remove battery" is "bootloop, please reflash" Sep 09 19:12:11 unless hildon-desktop would magically "repair itself" during a reboot Sep 09 19:12:53 Sicelo: you prefer bootloop to take-out-battery ? Sep 09 19:13:17 hildon-desktop has a rescue.sh Sep 09 19:13:19 idk what it does Sep 09 19:14:35 * Sicelo is trying to figure out what the greek means on that file :p Sep 09 19:14:47 probably it's meant to reset all widgets, walpapers and whatnot to factory defaults, but it needs to detect there'S something odd to actually do that Sep 09 19:15:09 Sicelo: greek? Sep 09 19:15:54 i mean i don't really understand what is happening exactly Sep 09 19:16:28 the -t switch says, ... after which do a SW reset, is that a reboot? Sep 09 19:16:33 dsmetool starts hildon-desktop, exactly as you already found out Sep 09 19:16:43 yes, this is reboot Sep 09 19:17:31 cat /proc/bootreason ->> sw-reset Sep 09 19:18:38 if hildon-desktop blows chunks on e.g. a terribly messconfigured desktop widget, then you'll see a bootloop Sep 09 19:20:26 I once triggered that by doing really nasty and pulling weather-widget from one screen to another, which caused h-d to explode during ransition to new screen and probably messing up the config files for weather-widget. A bootloop ensued which forced me to reflash Sep 09 19:20:49 (back when I had no idea about R&D mode) Sep 09 19:20:58 0.0 Sep 09 19:22:05 note that I theoretically could have logged in via ssh and fixed things, if only the sshd was up for more than 2 seconds on N900, per bootloop-cycle Sep 09 19:23:26 what is the -17 for? Sep 09 19:23:59 so I think even a situatin where you have to remove battery to reboot/shutdown is better than a bootloop. Besides that MohammadAG claims mce and thus powerbutton hard shutdown still works even when h-d segfaulted Sep 09 19:24:14 some resource tweaking for OOM Sep 09 19:28:47 hard? it's the same shutdown as always :) Sep 09 19:29:40 * Sicelo will go insane trying to figure this out ;) Sep 09 19:48:45 * Sicelo admits defeat, and hides Sep 09 20:35:38 OMG they have buried Steve Jobs Sep 09 20:35:44 [prematurely, I guess] Sep 09 20:36:59 brurned? Sep 09 20:37:14 ach buried..... my fault Sep 09 20:42:54 hi Sep 09 20:43:25 rzr: Could you tell the name of a person responsible for the 'mg' package in your repository? Sep 09 20:44:08 i guess its me Sep 09 20:44:11 why? Sep 09 20:44:26 rzr: The name clashes with the name of my package that exists since N810 time Sep 09 20:44:34 is it a rootkit Sep 09 20:44:41 ah i see Sep 09 20:44:45 rzr: So I have been hoping you will rename the package Sep 09 20:44:57 i wont do that Sep 09 20:45:06 but i can remove it Sep 09 20:45:16 why remove it when it can be renamed? Sep 09 20:45:20 mg was years ago yours probally Sep 09 20:45:31 wont have time to do that Sep 09 20:45:33 yes,the original mg is pretty old Sep 09 20:45:50 i can disable it if you want Sep 09 20:45:52 remove it then,if it is ok with you Sep 09 20:46:01 is your mg on obs ? Sep 09 20:46:06 unless of course it is really really really useful Sep 09 20:46:09 no, it is not Sep 09 20:46:34 i am an emacs fan Sep 09 20:46:46 so i planned to use it Sep 09 20:47:08 but cant u rename yours ? Sep 09 20:48:22 tell me if when it is supported by harmattan Sep 09 20:48:33 rzr: lots of people know it as 'mg' Sep 09 20:48:39 rzr: has been around for a while Sep 09 20:48:55 rzr: why don'tyou simply compile the whole emacs? N950 willpull it just fine Sep 09 20:49:38 depends on gtk Sep 09 20:54:43 anyone else had issues with upstart preventing an upgrade recently? Sep 09 20:54:51 it's got some unresolvable deps it seems Sep 09 21:01:55 RST38h, i disabled publishing of mg Sep 09 21:02:43 RST38h, if u port it i think about replacing with yours and rename the old one Sep 09 21:03:40 rzr: There is an emacs package for Fremantle. The easiest thing would be to recompileit forHarmattan, and that would be the real emacs, not the simulation Sep 09 21:04:31 that mg start at speedlight Sep 09 21:04:41 i use it everyday Sep 09 21:06:08 if you hate mg feel free to forkit and rename and push back mg and mg-editor Sep 09 21:06:27 i am in train now on my phone now Sep 09 21:08:59 rzr: nah, I neither hate nor like it Sep 09 21:09:11 rzr: personally, used to pico (or nano) Sep 09 21:54:05 oi javispedro Sep 09 21:54:24 hi there Sep 09 21:54:54 hi mr radio Sep 09 21:55:05 ha :) Sep 09 21:55:07 this reminds me... Sep 09 21:55:15 \o/ 16.7 installs Sep 09 21:55:47 what is this release ? Sep 09 21:55:56 CSSU Sep 09 21:56:12 cool Sep 09 21:56:39 damn, neither Venemo or MAG are here =) Sep 09 21:57:00 duh, where's moh? Sep 09 21:57:46 * javispedro ponders Sep 09 21:57:49 should I try fmtx? =) Sep 09 21:58:11 hah, why not Sep 09 21:59:02 requires runtime patching of the kernel ... check. ignroing several warnings about not doing it .. check. issuing potentially destructive commands to hw I don't know anything about ... check. Sep 09 21:59:15 yeah, let's do it :) Sep 09 21:59:55 aw no Sep 09 22:00:06 sadly, the system global orientation lock comes first :( Sep 09 22:01:25 hah, seems a global issue - semi-fixed it for CSSU today, for me Sep 09 22:02:51 from what I'm looking, it might be quite easy actually, despite what I thought earlier Sep 09 22:02:59 but either way, this is for #harmattan. Sep 09 22:03:22 or #maemo-ssu ;-) Sep 09 22:04:12 heh Sep 09 22:05:05 tbh it never really bothered in maemo, but on harmattan.... seriously, half of the RSS reader app is locked to portrait, the other half is not locked... a mess. Sep 09 22:05:11 s/in maemo/in Fremantle Sep 09 22:05:27 GAN900: seems there's a topic for next monday's MWKN :-D Sep 09 22:08:07 javispedro: /etc/X11/Xsession.post/21hildon-desktop:/usr/sbin/dsmetool -c 3 -T 180 -m -17 -f /usr/bin/hildon-desktop Sep 09 22:08:35 I thought we're fed up with bootloops for no good reason Sep 09 22:08:51 what's wrong with that? Sep 09 22:09:02 with THIS one nuttin Sep 09 22:09:30 the one *you* got on your device is /usr/sbin/dsmetool -c 3 -T 180 -m -17 -t /usr/bin/hildon-desktop Sep 09 22:09:45 * javispedro boots fremantle Sep 09 22:09:49 hi MohammadAG Sep 09 22:10:05 MohammadAG is back \o/ Sep 09 22:10:12 MohammadAG: really appreciate your offer about a MTF radio app =) but still deciding on the app and so. I will probably ship a QtMobility plugin Sep 09 22:10:22 (also really appreciate Venemo's offer too) Sep 09 22:10:32 s/on the app/on the API Sep 09 22:11:52 javispedro, just make a normal Qt lib :) Sep 09 22:11:57 and hi :) Sep 09 22:12:04 DocScrutinizer, /me stabs freenode Sep 09 22:12:10 heh Sep 09 22:12:20 hey, ipv6, don't complain Sep 09 22:12:26 they are *very* busy upgrading ircd seven atm Sep 09 22:12:34 the day I get ipv6 is the day I start my own internet fork Sep 09 22:12:42 and/or my own ISP =) Sep 09 22:13:28 MohammadAG: 16.7 updates fine :-) Sep 09 22:14:04 yay Sep 09 22:14:15 so what do you think, let's call it gold and fork to stable, on next monday? Sep 09 22:14:46 We should fix camera-ui first, then add the cert manager Sep 09 22:14:57 ok, fair enough Sep 09 22:15:08 damn you DigiNora! Sep 09 22:16:02 javispedro, how long do you think you need for that lib? :) Sep 09 22:16:14 you know my notion regarding camera-ui. It'd be best we would find a way to kick it out of CSSU completely Sep 09 22:16:15 i would need an afternoon, but the problem is not me Sep 09 22:16:44 a Nokian has come and offered to do it the "proper way". Sadly, this means no time estimates. Sep 09 22:17:05 any comments from this nokian on FMTX? Sep 09 22:17:11 cause I kinda miss that :P Sep 09 22:17:12 if it wasn't in mp-cssu then this bug was just another app going havoc on user data, so what? Sep 09 22:17:27 MohammadAG: I'm trying FMTX after I get the global orientation lock thingie done Sep 09 22:17:41 have some ideas and a bit of help :) Sep 09 22:18:02 what's with fmtx? Sep 09 22:18:02 (but I wouldn't be optimistic..) Sep 09 22:18:09 has cssu broken it? Sep 09 22:18:51 sorry, this should have been in #harmattan Sep 09 22:18:59 * javispedro messes twice Sep 09 22:19:14 FU Nokia, for http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif Sep 09 22:19:34 re "Nokia offered to do it 'the right way' " Sep 09 22:19:43 Android's security system, or lack thereof > aegis Sep 09 22:19:44 to do what? Sep 09 22:21:00 DocScrutinizer: the current aegis policy allows me to do the daemon idea without many problems Sep 09 22:21:20 MohammadAG: indeed, and problem with HARM-FMRX isn't the FM but the mere friggin PA config Sep 09 22:21:24 but, such daemon would mostly be a pulseaudio clone, a sound server. Sep 09 22:21:45 and I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Specially not a sound server. And more specially not if I it is hackish :) Sep 09 22:22:12 ack Sep 09 22:22:44 see what PA gives us, I *adore* Lennart!!1!1!! >:-( Sep 09 22:24:36 can you turn off aegis yet? Sep 09 22:24:39 given the fact each shit regarding audio is set up using gstreamer anyway, I completely miss the rationale why we (=maemo system / Nokia) MUST use this crap PA Sep 09 22:25:08 ShadowJK: we'll never be able to "turn off aegis" Sep 09 22:25:15 :-( Sep 09 22:25:39 it's designed to first and foremost forbid all turning-it-off Sep 09 22:25:51 DocScrutinizer: this? again? really? I'm sure I explained to you already why Maemo uses it. ah well.... :P Sep 09 22:26:01 so this means I can't read my email Sep 09 22:26:05 on N9 :P Sep 09 22:26:33 DocScrutinizer: we just added dynamic AC3 passthrough to pulse, its pretty cool, you can move your audio stream between the DSP, bluetooth headset or HDMI output dynamically Sep 09 22:26:37 Robot101: sorry, I guess I forgot Sep 09 22:26:52 DocScrutinizer: so that reconfiguring outputs dynamically is a good example Sep 09 22:27:21 but it can't move audio from fmrx to speakers/headphones? :) Sep 09 22:27:45 I'm sure it can be made to - but its probably aegis that stops you modifying the binary or configuration Sep 09 22:27:54 it's probably also the only example we could possibly find. I admit PA might have a small edge there Sep 09 22:28:05 am not really here though, I just wanted to correct DocScrutinizer in case anyone got the wrong idea :P Sep 09 22:28:49 Robot101: for "reconfiguring dynamically" see what aegis done to that on HARM ;-P Sep 09 22:28:55 Well those "cool things" would be neat tricks, but first you'd want the ability to play back sound working properly first ;D Sep 09 22:29:21 DocScrutinizer: I think we agree about aegis a lot more than pulse... :D Sep 09 22:29:30 hehe Sep 09 22:30:14 like, imagine installing Satnav on a Lada or something, there's no point becuase the car never goes far enough before breaking down that you couldn't walk back home without map/nav ;P Sep 09 22:30:41 lol Sep 09 22:32:23 Robot101: given the concept of radically restricting all user access to any system config, using PA on HARM - under aegis - is mere pointless Sep 09 22:32:30 Robot101: there's an actual limitation in pulse here though, the fact that you can only specify one rate for a card, requiring a daemon reboot to change Sep 09 22:33:01 well, not really requiring a reboot, but removing/reinserting the module, which is next to a reboot. Sep 09 22:33:11 resampling is kinda expensive on low cpu Sep 09 22:33:19 however, that is a limitation shared by all sound servers I know. Sep 09 22:33:48 the idea of a sound server bewilders me Sep 09 22:33:48 * ShadowJK recalls 10-20% on his Pentium3 for the minimum acceptable that doesn't butcher the audio entirely Sep 09 22:33:54 ShadowJK: I mean change the hw rate, precisely to avoid a resample operation Sep 09 22:34:07 (or, in the fmrx case, to allow capture in better rates than what are usually used with BT) Sep 09 22:34:13 DocScrutinizer: no, really. pulseaudio does its job - and what it's permitted to do - on harmattan. Sep 09 22:34:48 javispedro, yeah I mean adjusting hwrate is something you'd want on cpu limited platform to avoid costly resampling Sep 09 22:35:00 DocScrutinizer: the fact you're prohibited from reconfiguring it is a separate problem. it still implements the audio policy and calls pausing your music and beeps mixing with music and remembering volume, moving cellular audio from serial to the dsp, etc... Sep 09 22:35:08 Robot101: the only point is there's not much it's allowed to do Sep 09 22:35:16 aw, forget it. Sep 09 22:35:19 that can't be done without PA as well Sep 09 22:35:23 responding to headset insertion and moving streams to/from the audio and the bluetooth headset Sep 09 22:35:34 as said in the current firmware I can do pretty much whatever I want to it =) Sep 09 22:35:50 including replacing all audio output with rickrolling Sep 09 22:36:20 oh, this just gave me an idea for a $2 app in Ovi Store... Sep 09 22:36:53 javispedro: so I think this dynamic reconfiguration stuff has been improved in upstream pulse now, as a result of our recent work Sep 09 22:37:40 ah, upstream is so far here.... Sep 09 22:37:54 Robot101: wouldn't you know the story behind module-alsa-*-old btw? Sep 09 22:38:38 iirc for maemo 5 they did a lot of tweaks to the audio drivers (using unusual parts of the ALSA API) to support the latency requirements for gsm Sep 09 22:38:55 and hacked the alsa drivers in pulse to use that work Sep 09 22:39:22 an educated guess here would be, they kept all those hacks and the pulse work they had done, even though pulse's alsa stuff moved on a lot? Sep 09 22:39:25 just a guess Sep 09 22:39:26 pulse on desktop seems to misreport latency by 10-900 ms for me, depending on its mood :P Sep 09 22:39:41 yeah - alsa drivers usually get this wrong I think Sep 09 22:40:12 it's always spot-on when I use alsa direct Sep 09 22:40:16 hah, the story probably more like "PA got tweaks to support the more unusual alsa API parts that are needed only when you deal with realtime" Sep 09 22:40:20 killing pulse first Sep 09 22:41:36 IMHO, pulse tries to do too much, and as any good unix beard would say, "thus does not anything really well". Sep 09 22:41:56 If it goes much over 1s wrong, I can expect an imminent pulseaudio crash/exit/whatever, which reliable seems to make all programs using pulse go into an infinite cpu loop :D Sep 09 22:42:03 were it to be separated into sound server, policy enforcement, and "the rest".... it would be at least easier to replace. Sep 09 22:42:19 you guys must hate systemd, huh? :) Sep 09 22:42:46 DocScrutinizer, think we'll freeze on version 17 Sep 09 22:42:53 Robot101: you guess :D Sep 09 22:43:37