**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 17 02:59:57 2011 Sep 17 05:39:26 Please note that I say this with all the love and friendship I have for him: The last thing lcuk was talking about that dreadful night was messing about with Visual Studio. It's official, Microsoft's products finally pushed someone over the edge. Sep 17 05:40:00 (Re SpeedEvil & luke-jr) Sep 17 05:40:25 … Sep 17 05:40:39 lcuk's liqbase was all based on Visual Basic last I heard Sep 17 05:41:28 Hardly, he was a VB dev, so you can't blame him, he actually had a few code generators that would allow him to translate VB objects into C, IIRC. Sep 17 05:42:01 But there was a very conscious choice as to why he never tried writing it in VB, and only started out when he could do C on the tablet. Sep 17 05:42:27 Hey, he could not get VB on his tablet even if he wanted to! Sep 17 06:14:42 "Native Client taps the hardware's rarely-used "segment registers" to restrict where a program can read and write data in memory and to make sure the program doesn't jump to code outside a certain memory range. Plus, it uses a modified compiler and a code verifier that restrict code jumps." Sep 17 06:24:24 ... Sep 17 07:31:22 are the mods MIA with all the spam or something? Sep 17 08:10:04 spamcity on the forums today Sep 17 08:58:23 spam is almost wiped out Sep 17 10:00:17 you guys ever have issues making calls or connections even when 3G bars are available because the battery is low? Sep 17 10:09:00 how low is low? Sep 17 10:12:17 a 25 years old man who is 1.6m tall Sep 17 10:17:15 huh Sep 17 10:18:31 grr Sep 17 10:18:41 why does an MWidget's destructor segfault my app Sep 17 10:27:31 how can i expand storage for app install in diablo ? Sep 17 10:27:46 anyone Sep 17 10:28:12 i mean expand using sd card Sep 17 10:33:07 Mohammad: probably deletes some child widget, twice Sep 17 10:33:35 Mohammad: Sure you have not deleted any widgets *after* passing their ownership to MWidget in question? Sep 17 10:34:18 Or maybe you created some widgets on stack(i.e. no "new") and then passed them to your MWidget ? Sep 17 10:52:17 RST38h, right now I'm not deleting anything in that widget manually Sep 17 11:26:58 hello there Sep 17 11:28:51 hi Sep 17 12:17:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_66KAOzXhU --> I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure the N900 is now the only phone with EEG functionality :) Hooray for h-e-n! Sep 17 12:21:28 ugh, its not a phone Sep 17 12:21:47 WOW Sep 17 12:21:53 The headset they're using is only $299! http://emotiv.com/store/hardware/epoc-bci/epoc-neuroheadset/ Sep 17 12:22:19 I so enormously want one of those now. Think of the possibilities! Sep 17 12:23:53 I'm impressed Sep 17 12:24:02 Possibilities are endless but in its current stage, all the programs made available seems to be at an infancy stage Sep 17 12:24:27 USD$299 only if you lived in the US fyi Sep 17 12:24:50 psycho_oreos: today I was listening to Mix106.5 using Radio, and a call came in, but the dialer actually start to listen the radio instead of me! Sep 17 12:24:52 lol Sep 17 12:25:44 jiero, Mix106.5? never heard of that radio station. Sep 17 12:26:03 making a Qt API for that brain thingy shouldn't be hard Sep 17 12:26:24 what's the picture viewer? does it paint pictures from your head or do you simply select photos from a list by thinking about them? Sep 17 12:26:40 the latter MohammadAG Sep 17 12:26:44 I'm guessing select photo by thinking Sep 17 12:26:53 psycho_oreos: http://player.arn.com.au/mix1065.aspx Sep 17 12:26:56 pfft Sep 17 12:27:01 I wanted a brain QPaintEngine Sep 17 12:27:19 The biggest challange is probably mapping the EEG patterns to specific actions Sep 17 12:27:38 jiero, bleh that's gonna chew me monthly quota lol Sep 17 12:27:49 what if I'm like Sep 17 12:27:52 Hey, I would be surprised if current software for it can detect "left/right" without problems, not to mention thinking about certain photo Sep 17 12:28:01 FFS I so wanna rm -rf /* when I'm pissed at the phone Sep 17 12:28:25 Mohammad: Except it may not be doing exactly what they say it is doing Sep 17 12:28:40 at worst it would interpret this as "back" button ;P Sep 17 12:28:52 True Sep 17 12:29:01 I really don't think the `app' is capable of picking up what you want to see in a photo to actually be shown on the screen, here is one of the `apps': http://emotiv.com/store/apps/applications/118/582 Sep 17 12:29:15 Really, detecting brainwave patterns by such a devices and soft for it is pre-infant. Sep 17 12:29:28 I would not even call it pre-natal Sep 17 12:29:37 psycho_oreos: ;) I mostly use radio, but with wifi, I prefer the Internet streaming. wifi is cheap. um, I just hope one day everywhere would be like Hong Kong, sim with nearly free wifi. Sep 17 12:30:12 jiero, someday it'll happen in .au, someday with the great firewall of aust in the mix Sep 17 12:30:20 is it possible to detect electrical activity in the brain remotely? with some sort of antenna? Sep 17 12:30:26 As for wifi I agree, just don't bring us integration with China in 2058 *cough* Sep 17 12:30:28 left/right has been doable for years, I had an OCZ NIA like 3 years ago that with like 15 minutes practise could get pretty decent accuracy thinking left/right Sep 17 12:30:55 marainein, no, brain signals are far too weak to be picked up by an antenna that's not directly connected to a person's head Sep 17 12:30:57 marainein: Technically, yes Sep 17 12:31:04 marainein: Practically no. Sep 17 12:31:11 nid0 - true. That's why I've said "hardly" Sep 17 12:31:29 You can pick up signals in a completely shielded room, using exotic cryogenic detectors. Sep 17 12:31:37 are we ever likely to see advances that change that? would room temperature superconductors help, for instance? Sep 17 12:31:46 Not really. Sep 17 12:31:53 I wait for bwtx Sep 17 12:32:02 brainwave transmitter ;) Sep 17 12:32:02 You can't pick it up without the shielding. Sep 17 12:32:09 Estel_: I think looking at what you said, the word "hardly" is the word you actually missed from your sentence Sep 17 12:32:13 jiero, I've tried wifi radio streaming once, it was so laggy with higher bitrate audio streams that I gave up listening to live streams.. I prefer to record them to be pre-recorded so I don't have to deal with lag nonsense Sep 17 12:32:33 nid0 true :) I've said "surpriaed if without problems" Sep 17 12:32:38 Estel_, with the help of nanobots yes ;) Sep 17 12:32:45 marainein: Why would you even want that? In such a world tinfoil hats would actually make sense... I for one would not want someone to be able to remotely read my brainwaves Sep 17 12:33:07 ErwinJunge, could help with women you know :0 Sep 17 12:33:10 no worries, brainwaves are quite easily adaptable Sep 17 12:33:15 they like to know if you're cheating on them ;) Sep 17 12:33:23 Haha :) Sep 17 12:33:34 You can make You "patterns" more constant by practicing existing device Sep 17 12:33:48 aww, c'mon - if every inventor stopped to think about the social consequences of their inventions, where would the world be? Sep 17 12:34:04 so, in times of brainwave remote antennas, "mind blocking" would be real trait Sep 17 12:34:09 not one from rpg Sep 17 12:34:30 that's why hobbyist devices never reach mainstream.. its because of all the `societal consequences' really Sep 17 12:34:42 marainen - probably non-existing or Rapture-like Sep 17 12:35:11 * Estel_ is making obvious Systemshock/Bioshock refference Sep 17 12:35:21 * psycho_oreos has never played that before Sep 17 12:35:26 do electrical fields fall off in a gradient? what if i had an array of electrodes? Sep 17 12:35:59 test it and tell us, then write open API for it Sep 17 12:36:10 don't go closed source! ;) Sep 17 12:36:25 like what these mobs did -_- Sep 17 12:36:42 * Estel_ is suggesting oreos to start with Systen Schock 2, not newest Bioshock Sep 17 12:36:43 * psycho_oreos is referring to EPOC Sep 17 12:36:53 sure, it's not like having exclusive mind reading powers would be useful Sep 17 12:37:36 * Estel_ think that future will really bring extension of out-of-lab telepathic "powers" Sep 17 12:37:38 * psycho_oreos is trying to not get addicted into gaming, for once he has experienced of `falling into hell hole and meeting with the satan himself'. Sep 17 12:38:24 * Estel_ is thinking that if oreos keep away from crappy as whole MMO genre, he will be fine Sep 17 12:39:39 BTW, I always wanted to prepare semi-fake video with playing Witcher 2 on N900 (via remote desktop ;) ) Sep 17 12:39:55 then posting it in Youtube Sep 17 12:40:47 or even better, prepare another with some Ishit, post it on Ishit forum, then start gathering donations for the project *cough* *cough* Sep 17 12:41:27 Haha, good luck convincing people that it's real though. Maybe you should add some unlimited detail ;) Sep 17 12:41:31 mind reading is quite interesting, imagine where people no longer will get RSI from using mouse all the time.. or a stylus or even having to use limbs all that much :) Its all battle in the brain. I mean you can imagine it would be convenient too to be able to communicate using just brain waves, and in the field of proving innocence or guilty, one no longer needs to go through excessive amounts of paperwork, it'll be polygraph reinvented Sep 17 12:42:15 * psycho_oreos tells Estel_ its not a good idea to get involved in any sort of big games, period ;) even with the ones that does `grinding' which loads of games these days does. Sep 17 12:42:51 * Estel_ is already involved :( Sep 17 12:43:11 psycho_oreos, good point Sep 17 12:43:27 * ErwinJunge points psycho_oreos at minecraft and casually strolls away Sep 17 12:43:29 hahaha you're not alone :) I could get rid of my minor gaming addiction even though I've been burnt by it one stage.. its like any addiction really Sep 17 12:43:31 although I'll not opt for using something like that in law system Sep 17 12:43:56 * psycho_oreos tells ErwinJunge he knows full well about minecraft, its like the new hype like every other game Sep 17 12:43:59 true, everything can be addiction Sep 17 12:44:09 some more pleasant than others. Sep 17 12:44:28 Estel_, I've seen a tv show I believe where they had a mind reader tool which they used to dive into a person's mind. Interesting however Sep 17 12:44:47 * Estel_ is thinking about what other things he is thinking, and how it looks as brainwave matrix Sep 17 12:45:01 I don't think there's that much of pleasurement that can be measured in a tangible form from an external point of view really Sep 17 12:45:36 pleasure from being addicted into something.. everyone has differing views really Sep 17 12:45:58 fortunatelly, pleasure, feelings, emotions, are not objectively measureable Sep 17 12:46:26 hey, there is thin line between pleasure from doing somethiing, to being addicted to it psychically Sep 17 12:46:37 definitely not when one is benefitting it from having experienced Sep 17 12:46:43 chemical addiction is different thing, though, Sep 17 12:46:44 lol Sep 17 12:47:00 I know, I know ;) Sep 17 12:47:34 BTW, all discussion of mind readings bring me thinking about Lucid Dreaming Sep 17 12:47:43 sleepanalyser? Sep 17 12:47:49 :) Sep 17 12:47:52 thats one hell of interesting subject Sep 17 12:48:12 This would hook in very well with sleepanalyser actually, since instead of measuring movement, you could measure the actual brainwaves... Sep 17 12:48:12 hehe I've heard that some people use it to aid inmLucid Dreaming Sep 17 12:48:21 Sleeping with the headset would suck though Sep 17 12:48:40 this is fascinnating topic, really. Sep 17 12:49:37 Would You imagine that when in Dream, and You realize that You're dreaming, You can keep being asleep by spinning around (in dream)? Sep 17 12:49:47 ErwinJunge: many thanks for sharing this awesome story Sep 17 12:50:37 adrenaline rush from realizing that You're dreaming can wake You up, and spinning around keep mind occupied and ease it Sep 17 12:50:54 I looked at the photos of EPOC headset.. I can't imagine anyone would be able to sleep with that sort of headset strapped around them. Mind you I've gone through sleep clinic one stage and with wires hanging from my head it was already awkward enough for me to sleep let alone placing ear muffs on me head and sleeping with it :) Sep 17 12:51:01 when You spin in dream, You're really feeling it, even body reactions are same. Sep 17 12:51:07 brain ones too Sep 17 12:52:31 * Estel_ is thinking if anyone here is addicted to Neil Gaiman books/comics like Estel Sep 17 12:52:31 well pain receptors can be faked ;) Sep 17 12:52:51 true, but spinning actually is quite complicated Sep 17 12:53:07 err the pain from the pain receptors.. afterall the brain is responsible for listening to issues from the body :p Sep 17 12:53:26 * psycho_oreos recalls of painkillers and how they basically work :) Sep 17 12:53:52 not to mention such complex things as tasting, smeeling or sexual feelings. Sep 17 12:54:16 exactly Sep 17 12:54:18 its all the weird and wonderful things that the brain is capable of Sep 17 12:54:40 yea... Explain why in Dreaming, time goes in different pace Sep 17 12:54:56 I mean that, when researches working with lucid dreamers Sep 17 12:55:00 hah as if I'd know the answer to that question :) Sep 17 12:55:10 did interesting experiment Sep 17 12:55:57 as eyes are only one part of body that is 100% active and do same things that we're doing during dreaming Sep 17 12:56:20 I guess time goes at a different pace when we're sleeping anyway, it just seems like the whole state we're being immersed into (during sleep of course) is similar to that of being intoxicated.. Everything seems to go slow yet the scene sporadically changes at a rapid pace during REM Sep 17 12:56:27 they agreed to move their eyes in specific pattern, indicating time Sep 17 12:56:38 every second, the did "eye pattern" Sep 17 12:57:07 for every Lucid dreamer, their second was 1,6 second of "real" time Sep 17 12:57:46 I wonder if it depends on ambient conditions? if it is same for group of people nearby Sep 17 12:58:01 maybe they're communicating somehow? ;) Sep 17 12:58:14 MAG, write us program for it Sep 17 12:58:33 Pali, we want kernel module for that ;P Sep 17 12:58:42 *shrugs* don't know.. but then that would also be related to six point six degrees of separation :) Sep 17 12:58:54 haha Sep 17 12:59:08 Estel_: what? Sep 17 12:59:23 bwtx, barinwave transmitter Sep 17 12:59:56 I want to put HEN upgrade into MAG dreams Sep 17 13:00:12 or pull source code from it Sep 17 13:00:17 o.O Sep 17 13:00:21 (from dreams) Sep 17 13:00:41 * psycho_oreos thinks MAG wouldn't want his ideas to be made that visible :p Sep 17 13:00:55 hey, musicians often dream of some music and write it after awakening Sep 17 13:01:23 I wonder if it apply for source code solutions ;) Sep 17 13:01:35 music is different, it relies on creative thinking.. coding is abstract and would require more logic thinking than creative :) Sep 17 13:02:07 * psycho_oreos imagines a creative only side of thinking would result in a very weird sort of code :p Sep 17 13:02:30 psycho_oreos: ( was already awkward enough for me to sleep) Geishas sleep with their head on a small wooden "seat", not to mess up their hair. I think humans can adapt to almost anything Sep 17 13:02:30 the logic side of the brain would see and think `wtf?' Sep 17 13:02:43 somehow true. On the other hand, Einstein said he was dreaming about his research many times, and everything was much easier inside Dreamland. He even told that few things he remembered helped him in actual research. Sep 17 13:03:27 DocScrutinizer, yeah its doable but that's because its a practise since maybe at young age :) Its not the same as say me telling you to start driving to work in reverse gear for the nest 3 days :) Sep 17 13:03:53 s/nest/next/ Sep 17 13:03:53 psycho_oreos meant: DocScrutinizer, yeah its doable but that's because its a practise since maybe at young age :) Its not the same as say me telling you to start driving to work in reverse gear for the next 3 days :) Sep 17 13:04:20 psycho_oreos: I have no problems driving reverse gear all the time, just hurts a bit in the neck Sep 17 13:04:36 Yea. Prisoners in North Korea, or some China prisons (or USA terrorist prisons, reportedly) tends to sleep in worse conditions, even Sep 17 13:05:10 (hurts) after 30..60min :-P Sep 17 13:05:14 I mean heck, there was also the case where with Japanese women were made to wear wooden stool like shoes with some sort of toe binding Sep 17 13:05:15 at least when they are allowed to sleep ;) Sep 17 13:05:41 Chinese, not Japanese Sep 17 13:05:47 DocScrutinizer, sounds like you've been practising ;) Sep 17 13:05:53 RST38h, my bad :) Sep 17 13:05:59 toe binding is chinese, wooden shoes (gota?) is japanese Sep 17 13:06:46 psycho_oreos: I actually did. The worst thing is drive dynamics of the car at high reverse speeds Sep 17 13:06:48 little more thinking about cruelty in world, and I'm gona emigrate to moon :( Sep 17 13:07:09 DocScrutinizer, out of curiosity, why You did it? Sep 17 13:07:20 because it was hard Sep 17 13:07:22 Kennedy almost approved a project to nuke the moon Sep 17 13:07:23 :-P Sep 17 13:07:46 DocScrutinizer, haha right. so, also out of curiosity ;) Sep 17 13:07:56 RST38h, haha true. Sep 17 13:07:59 DocScrutinizer, not to mention one could rev the poor tits off the engine due to very low gear ratio :) Sep 17 13:08:06 http://www.cracked.com/article/153_nuke-moon-5-certifiably-insane-cold-war-projects/ Sep 17 13:08:10 well, the Kennedy reference came just in time :-D Sep 17 13:08:34 I've done driving in reverse but not for long distances.. like maybe only 20-30metres at most Sep 17 13:09:40 (I'll be driving in reverse gear end of this day, and I'll do it at high speed and without accident, not because it's simple but because it's hard) Sep 17 13:10:06 practise makes perfect ;) Sep 17 13:10:59 I'm sure defensive/stunt driving courses would teach one how to also drive in reverse along with many other maneuvres Sep 17 13:11:09 sometime reverse-gear superpowers can save your live Sep 17 13:11:23 lolwut Sep 17 13:12:10 I only know rear wheel drive's super power can actually save people's lives if they knew how to harness it but not with reverse gear Sep 17 13:24:43 RST38h, thanks for that link about cold war humour Sep 17 13:24:52 I laughed my *** off Sep 17 13:25:44 ... except for fact that it's true. Sep 17 13:26:11 BTW, I'm no fan of conspiracy theories, but I'm indeed in doubt if they ever landed on moon Sep 17 13:27:52 not because goddamnit idiotic topic of flag. Rather by looking at close-ups of video with jumping astronauts, and dust from their feets acting like in atmoapheric conditions, flying around and landing much later that astronaut itself. Sep 17 13:28:22 + the fact that even now, we're getting troubles to successfully send someone to moon. Sep 17 13:28:45 Well, at least faking moon-landing video is better than nuking it Sep 17 13:35:02 lol, priceless >>Nobody saw a problem with it--except President Kennedy, who thankfully realized the implications of Northwood (i.e. that punching yourself in the face as an excuse to punch somebody else in the face was not a valid military strategy) and ultimately rejected it. Most of the documents involving Operation Northwoods were de-classified in 1997, and are now serving out their life-sentences as conspiracy theorist porn all across Sep 17 13:35:04 the Internet.<< Sep 17 13:40:13 yea Sep 17 13:40:39 actually, many americans belive that WTC was inside-job, lol Sep 17 13:40:46 believe* Sep 17 13:42:18 I also believe it was an inside-job, my plot is somewhat more subtle though. I mean we'll never know how many CIA undercover agents supported Bin Laden in which ways for how long Sep 17 13:44:39 more and more info keeps leaking about ties between 3-letter agencies, saudi families in the US, whom they evacuated shortly before 9/11, and those families ties with the hijackers, though. Sep 17 13:44:58 interesting. Sep 17 13:45:45 especially that good'old'osama was CIA friend from old times, at least until he told them to fo Sep 17 13:45:52 they evidently had good info about 9-11 coming, and what bin laden planned to do. They preferred to ignore it Sep 17 13:47:45 Doc <-- talked to pupnik too much Sep 17 13:47:50 Inside job? What inside job? Sep 17 13:48:08 RST38h: http://www.democracynow.org/2011/9/15/former_senator_bob_graham_urges_obama Sep 17 13:48:18 No, I mean, the followup DEFINITELY was the inside job, but not the act itself Sep 17 13:48:36 tomreyn: Sep 17 13:48:51 http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-913-ten-years-on-and-a-long-way-down/ Sep 17 14:00:09 i love war nerd. he's such a spite filled jerk Sep 17 14:04:28 RST38h: so unless i missed something important, this 'war nerd' guy is basically saying that the general idea of using airplanes to attack buildings is simple, thus whoever claims that it is a complex maneuver to plan and carry out such an attack in the U.S. when you're coming from a very different place on earth is irrelevant. Sep 17 14:07:41 the link i posted is about some apparently proovable (I have not tried) facts which suggest that there has been a high degree of cooperation between a few saudi families and the attackers on the one hand, and these families and the three-letter agencies on the other hand just prior to 9/11. Sep 17 14:08:39 so I don't understand why the 'war nerd' article would be a suitable response. Sep 17 14:09:27 if anyone is annoyed by this topic being discussed here, just say so, it surely is off-topic... Sep 17 14:13:21 what's the procedure again for making skype work again? Sep 17 14:13:44 can't find it online for some reason, but i think it involved deleting a folder Sep 17 14:17:36 work *again*?? (SCNR) Sep 17 14:19:23 it stopped working like a week ago, without me changing anything Sep 17 14:19:42 so i deleted the account and tried readding it again Sep 17 14:19:49 but that's not working at all Sep 17 14:22:28 or maybe skyp is just broken in general? Nobody seems to be online on my desktop skype Sep 17 14:33:43 i think i'll just reflash the phone Sep 17 16:20:27 So, is t.m.o finally dead? Sep 17 16:27:30 I have a bunch of double quote characters in my address book. What is the best way to either export and re-import my contacts, or to somehow direct edit the address book in vi or something? Sep 17 16:27:58 it is in an sqlite database Sep 17 16:28:43 that is almost too good to be true. :-) Sep 17 16:28:54 is it password protected or anything? Sep 17 16:29:00 where is it stored Sep 17 16:33:00 Targus to release new WiFi PAN-equipped Laser Mouse this September <== WTF? Sep 17 16:40:22 whats confusing about it Sep 17 16:42:08 any link to more information about accessing the sqlite database with the contacts? Sep 17 16:42:59 google, no? Sep 17 16:44:00 Not yet. Sep 17 16:44:12 I found links, but nothing helpful Sep 17 17:24:20 what is the best way to remove double quotes from all contacts? Sep 17 17:26:27 I want to buy a sd card for n900 for easier install dualboot things. which kind of sd can I use? Sep 17 17:27:08 any kind of microsd Sep 17 17:31:43 okay thanks Sep 17 17:31:57 you might like a faster one tho :) Sep 17 17:40:04 nox-: means? Sep 17 17:40:10 faster might be better if you want to use the sdmicro card as your store for pictures. Sep 17 17:40:27 yeah for example Sep 17 17:40:47 I want to install meego for developing and maybe meego using some day Sep 17 17:40:50 i.e. when writing to the sdmicro from a camer app, faster is often better Sep 17 17:43:06 Transcend Transcend MicroSDHC Class 6 8GB ? Sep 17 17:44:14 that should do it Sep 17 17:44:57 class 10 maybe does not work? Sep 17 17:45:11 there is a kingston class 10 also available Sep 17 17:45:59 dunno, you'd `think' it should work tho Sep 17 17:51:23 RST38h: (contacts) isn't that a berkley DB? Sep 17 17:53:31 I'd go for sandisk whenever possible Sep 17 17:54:07 texasmynsted: export to vcard, edit by , re-import Sep 17 17:56:21 sandisk better than transcend? Sep 17 17:57:04 ok. Sep 17 17:57:07 hmm, I just know sandisk is like always-OK Sep 17 17:57:11 that worked, thank you Sep 17 17:57:20 yw Sep 17 17:57:42 think it is sqlite3 Sep 17 17:58:00 though can't seem to find a way to connect to it via sqlite3 command line app Sep 17 17:58:13 but export/import worked Sep 17 17:59:32 (can't seem to find a way to connect to it via sqlite3) maybe because it's berkley ;-) Sep 17 18:01:48 I have a deja vu regarding this, seems it's not the first time somebody tries to connect to it via sqlite3 and gives up finally. I mean, when even barisione reverted to using vcard ex/import instead of direct access (iirc) Sep 17 18:03:39 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60526 Sep 17 18:06:10 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=791359&postcount=9 Sep 17 18:08:21 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=791451&postcount=12 Sep 17 18:14:25 there was an issue with class 10 with errors being spewed out from the kernel. Users with stock kernel or kernel-power47 (or older) will be affected unless they have applied the class 10 patch Sep 17 18:15:23 ~hail nicolai Sep 17 18:15:23 * infobot bows down to nicolai and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" Sep 17 18:17:34 Topic changes should really come with a diff Sep 17 18:22:33 eichi, I'd recommend buying reputable brands that declare lifetime warranty on said products, buy microSDHC cards from well known stores prevents any potential chances in you getting a microSDHC card with false readings on capacities. Also, there's tools like f3 (linux only) which can test to see if the microSDHC card you bought has indeed its stated capacity rather than having fake label and as a result fake capacity output. Sep 17 18:22:54 ugh.. s/buy/buying/ Sep 17 18:23:59 Hm.. readin the sources thing on the wiki, I found this snippet: Sep 17 18:24:31 Reasons for closed packages: "bme - Battery Management Entity: Security. A misuse of the could lead to serious battery damages that could result in liabilities for Nokia." Sep 17 18:24:58 Because people reverse engineering and tinkering with partial guesswork is much safer than giving them the sourcecode.. Sep 17 18:26:08 I understand it will never be opened, just think the reason is pure BS Sep 17 18:26:21 ErwinJunge: that's been discussed ad nauseum and bottom line is Nokia probably has no (C) in bme code, and also sees no benefit in opening it up Sep 17 18:26:37 yes, that reason is mere BS Sep 17 18:28:18 same BS as the supposed highly evolved sekrit IP in bme Sep 17 18:29:31 Probably, although maybe that links in to battery sales? Sep 17 18:29:43 truth seems to be: bme is a stinking can of worms nobody @ nokia wants to touch Sep 17 18:30:45 Somehow that seems all the more reason to just release it and let the community clean it up Sep 17 18:39:02 missing (C) Sep 17 18:39:18 (just rumours) Sep 17 18:40:20 What do you mean? Sep 17 18:40:31 but see a lot of stuff done by e.g. Collabora which also probably couldn't get opensourced by Nokia even if they'd like to Sep 17 18:41:35 ErwinJunge: I mean Nokia paying subcontractors for writing closed source stuff for them, and then Nokia can't just go "hey, we put this into FOSS now" Sep 17 18:42:17 possibly the (C) is still by the subcontractor and Nokia just may "use" it Sep 17 18:44:49 Ah, yeah, that makes sense Sep 17 18:48:14 I've been told by sources that should know that Nokia seems to have no inhouse competence regarding bme (at least fremantle bme) Sep 17 18:49:36 and a definitive statement is "looking at bme sources makes bleed your eyes and want to to rip them out" Sep 17 18:50:16 Well, that wouldn't be a first for me (and probably none of us) Sep 17 18:50:29 you can tell that's true by simply observing what bme does Sep 17 18:50:56 Working with legacy code in a university environment (not the CS department) is "interesting" Sep 17 18:50:57 e.g it is accessing register #40 of a chip that has only 5 registers at all Sep 17 18:51:11 Wow, that's remarkably crappy Sep 17 18:52:12 What could be the reason to not release the neccesary technical documents to make an open source implementation from scratch btw? IP? Sep 17 18:52:30 They don't have them Sep 17 18:52:31 lawyers. Sep 17 18:52:40 They simply asked another company to develop it, and they did Sep 17 18:53:03 And they don't have a suitable set of reimplemtnation documents that are available and not under other companies NDAs Sep 17 18:53:12 (plausibly - I have no idea if this is true) Sep 17 18:53:27 each single line of code going out to FOSS from Nokia has to get clearance from lawyers first Sep 17 18:53:58 each line of specs as well Sep 17 18:55:21 Meh, sucks. Sep 17 18:55:40 today's industry got raided by patent trolls, and lawyers are supposed to make sure nobody us sueing Nokia for using var names starting with "i" or whatever Sep 17 18:56:06 Anyways, I have to go. Byebye. Sep 17 18:56:11 watch the movie "Patent absurdity" Sep 17 18:56:14 that's obviously an extremely lenghty and expensive process Sep 17 18:58:06 Nokia probably failed to set up a proper structure where employees are paid for sitting in the office and _not_ working for Nokia but rather contributing to FOSS under their own name and responsibility Sep 17 18:59:04 DocScrutinizer, methinks that was never their purpose anyway. Sep 17 18:59:32 exactly Sep 17 19:00:16 as the whole FOSS thing from very beginning wasn't topmost priority for maemo, it seems. More like a means to an end Sep 17 19:03:23 DocScrutinizer, actually alot of people didn't/dont know of Nokia contrinuting to opensource projects at all, since they all do it under own name and such Sep 17 19:03:29 like bluez :P Sep 17 19:04:10 for bme they seem to have missed on it though Sep 17 19:04:54 lol Sep 17 19:05:00 well, this could be related to other NDA stuff that bme is basing on. I dunno Sep 17 19:06:53 It's not exactly productive to speculate why it is the way it is. Fact is bme won't get disclosed, and we should be happy it isn't, as then we are not temped to reimplement same BS again. Honestly I guess any random implementation will serve same purpose at least as well as the closed source bme Sep 17 19:10:01 bbl Sep 17 19:31:21 you guys ever have issues making calls or connections even when 3G bars are available because the battery is low? psycho_oreos: very low (in the red) Sep 17 19:34:46 yes, BB5 might stop working even while OMAP system still can cope with the low voltage Sep 17 19:35:14 BME will usually shut off when voltage gets that low. Sep 17 19:35:28 esp on old worn-out batteries that have a high impedance Sep 17 19:35:33 If you've killed BME, then absolutely that will happen - modem shuts off at a bit over 3V Sep 17 19:35:35 It shouldn't show the network connection in the status thing then, eh? Sep 17 19:35:46 That's a booog Sep 17 19:36:42 internetishard: it will shut down as soon as it tries to pull enormous surges of current for TX from battery, while APE will possibly survive the short dropouts Sep 17 19:37:16 Is there a list of acronyms like "APE" that I can learn? Sep 17 19:37:32 Rather, what book would include them that would get me up to speed? Sep 17 19:40:12 prolly wiki.. Hardware section Sep 17 19:41:45 I'm just saying the connection shouldn't show if this is the case DocScrutinizer... Since you can't connect to anything Sep 17 19:42:48 internetishard: I think it's been obvious by my explanation that this condition can be detected no sooner than when you actually try to place a call so GSM TX starts to operate Sep 17 19:43:29 I agree in that moment the phone connectivity indicator should show the fact that modem just shut down Sep 17 19:44:12 * ShadowJK thinks bme, if not immediately, would shut down at most a few seconds later Sep 17 19:44:33 Yeah, there I was trying to find a website for someone downtown at 2am with the 3g bars showing... I try like 3 times and then try to make a call to 411... And then figured it was due to low battery Sep 17 19:44:34 APE is application processor environment here, aka "the linux side" Sep 17 19:45:01 ShadowJK: not if the dropouts are < a few 100 ms Sep 17 19:45:31 if cellmo crashes or resets it shows up in dmesg Sep 17 19:45:46 yup Sep 17 19:46:04 but more likely in "downtown' network is congested and deprioritizing data to 0 :P Sep 17 19:47:30 at 3 bars I've also not been able to do 3g Sep 17 19:47:47 but then sometimes 1 bar is faster/better than full bars Sep 17 19:48:11 especially in "difficult" conditions :) Sep 17 19:57:15 ShadowJK: would be actually interesting to see at which "open circuit" voltage of cell @ which Ri(cell) the modem starts to fail on TX full blast, and if twl4030 can or can not cope with the (duration of) brownout surges caused by that Sep 17 19:57:58 4030 is way lower Sep 17 19:58:09 IIRC lowest battery voltage I've seen it running at is 2745 Sep 17 19:58:40 the problem with determining this is however that we got no means to know at which power factor the cellmo TX actually operates ATM Sep 17 19:59:21 afaik Sep 17 20:00:06 maybe 3GPP defines some mandatory AT cmds to learn about TX output power Sep 17 20:00:47 eh just download garbage and you know it's full tilt :D Sep 17 20:01:10 (to limit modem TX so it won't add up to a too high SAR value when WLAN is operating same time ;-D ) Sep 17 20:02:09 SpeedEvil: the question though is: will it crap out on short surges as caused by GSM TX Sep 17 20:03:16 esp when GSM TX maybe aborts prematurely due to voltage during brownout is too low for it to properly send out one 20ms chunk/timeslice Sep 17 20:03:26 oh, bme began low battery warnig at 44% bq capacity for my crapbattery :P Sep 17 20:03:33 maybe it's on to something Sep 17 20:03:49 quite possibly Sep 17 20:04:09 you guys have the n9 dev versions yet? How do you like it? Sep 17 20:04:24 you'd probably want a scope to learn what's really going on with battery voltage over (short) time Sep 17 20:04:40 :x Sep 17 20:04:48 As far as I'm aware, nobody in the community has gotten n9s yet Sep 17 20:04:53 (to replace their n950) Sep 17 20:05:03 And there is no new firmware either. Sep 17 20:05:18 those who did don't talk too much about it Sep 17 20:05:31 Sorry, I meant n950 Sep 17 20:05:41 There is no new (public) furmware Sep 17 20:05:42 or wouldn't call themselves "community" Sep 17 20:06:07 2724mV is the lowest in my logs Sep 17 20:08:03 wow Sep 17 20:08:15 so you guys have n950s? Sep 17 20:08:22 what do you think of the speed and everything? Sep 17 20:08:25 that's close to kill-cell Sep 17 20:15:20 DocScrutinizer: kill-cell? Sep 17 20:34:01 kill-cell: battery dies Sep 17 20:35:24 That's not the internal protection kicking off. Sep 17 20:35:32 Actually -nvm Sep 17 20:35:34 it might be Sep 17 20:35:43 thinking of something else. Sep 17 22:00:52 What the hell, man... I just installed this game 'connectagram' and it really shows me how little English I actually speak... Sep 17 22:01:12 nighest? engraft? albinic? Sep 17 22:02:19 nestled? Sep 17 22:03:21 I suck :( Sep 17 22:31:53 hi, there is an action game called AAAA opensourced. It run on OpenPandora. Anybody would like to port it? Sep 17 22:45:53 a simple question: how can i turn off usb mass storage mode? Sep 17 22:46:11 i ummount media on pc, but on n900 appears connected usb mode Sep 17 22:46:59 The easy way is to pull out the plug, and put it back Sep 17 22:47:37 Otherwise, I think there is an entry in the taskbar menu to do it Sep 17 22:49:20 Unfortunatelly, no. Status menu does contain entry for it, but it is active only in charging mode Sep 17 22:49:34 after selecting mass storage or pc suite, its just info. Sep 17 22:50:14 probably doable via fancy xterm command... Maybe, someday, someone will rewrite statusbar applet for that ;) Still, plugging and unplugging is faster Sep 17 22:50:36 I would just unplug and plug from dekstop, to avoid wear and tear on N900 port Sep 17 22:50:46 I vaguely remember tehre is actually a command line applet Sep 17 22:50:55 Also - popping the back cover Sep 17 22:51:18 ... poping the back cover? should it not affect only sd card? Sep 17 22:51:45 oops Sep 17 22:51:48 Ignore me, sorry Sep 17 22:51:54 btw, funny workarounds for such a simple task. It seems, that we really could use applet replacement Sep 17 22:51:59 I've just been drilling out rivets. Sep 17 22:52:03 Tired. Sep 17 22:52:10 yes i use plug and unplug Sep 17 22:52:18