**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 04 02:59:58 2011 Oct 04 04:30:22 I believe that I have successfully made a gcc 4.4 toolchain for scratchbox to target maemo Oct 04 04:30:36 Im unpacking the rootstrap and installing the sdk on it now Oct 04 05:01:46 Hi all, I'm trying to upload my first project in the garage (git)... Oct 04 05:04:21 Has anybody tried vcs.maemo.org/git? Oct 04 05:07:36 Just got an N900 and would like to know what is the best/preferred app to use for rss? Oct 04 05:10:48 BrianB_: I'm using grr, but its tied to google reader Oct 04 05:21:26 faina: Thank you. Oct 04 05:40:43 is there a game like pipe mania ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yutgiwhMKlU ) for maemo or will I have to emulate? Oct 04 05:44:39 ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored. Oct 04 05:44:41 what the Oct 04 05:49:19 Sazpaimon_: fakeroot does a lot of LD_PRELOAD tricks to make things look like you're running as root. Oct 04 05:50:12 faina, I understand that, but why am I getting this error Oct 04 05:50:24 its preventing dh_testroot from suceeding Oct 04 05:51:13 what environment are you running on? Oct 04 05:51:16 woldrich: pipepanic? (didn't look at your link) Oct 04 05:51:21 scratchbox, custom toolchain I made Oct 04 05:52:16 I followed the old instructions at http://maemo.org/development/sdks/pre_alpha_installation/#manualinstall to get the maemo environment set up with it Oct 04 05:52:25 its all working except this fakeroot error Oct 04 05:53:50 hmm looks like echo 4096 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr fixed it Oct 04 05:54:04 huh... Oct 04 05:54:50 for anyone willing to give a new life to n8x0: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1102224&postcount=30 Oct 04 05:55:05 I built my scratchbox environment from the harmattan sdk, and then install fremantle rootstraps into it Oct 04 05:57:01 faina, the harmattan sdk uses hardfp Oct 04 05:57:13 i dont think binaries will be compatible on an N900 Oct 04 05:57:25 not to mention the eglibc version Oct 04 05:58:10 slonopotamus, it's not in the repos? I found evilplumber, it claims to be something similar Oct 04 05:59:10 Sazpaimon_: I'm checking now. Oct 04 06:00:55 slonopotamus, oh jesus, it was horrible Oct 04 06:01:03 perhaps I should just setup uae Oct 04 06:01:36 built hello world, copied to n900, it ran. Oct 04 06:02:10 I used harmattan to create scratchbox, but used the fremantle rootstrap and devkits. Oct 04 06:02:21 Is there some good audio visualization software? I'd love to get projectm working but it doesn't seem easy Oct 04 06:03:34 faina, weird, I decided to play it safe and build my toolchain using the same eglibc version and settings that the default scratchbox toolchain uses Oct 04 06:04:37 Is there any docs on how to create new rootstraps/devkits for scratchbox? Oct 04 06:23:56 I wish there was a decent alternative to MicroB... why does it kill itself so easily? Oct 04 06:24:56 CableTwitch: midori? Oct 04 06:25:07 Whatnow? Oct 04 06:25:19 Isn't that a drink? Oct 04 06:25:23 nope Oct 04 06:25:29 its a lightweight browser Oct 04 06:26:13 Lightweight in what way? Oct 04 06:26:21 check it out Oct 04 06:27:04 And can it be installed easily? I'm useless still when it comes to buggering about with the CLI Oct 04 06:27:49 well IIRC yes Oct 04 06:29:02 Well, I'll have a looksee. I just want something that isn't going to get confused loading more than 2 pages at a time. Oct 04 06:29:15 And isn't dog slow (Firefox) Oct 04 06:33:42 mhm midori. Been a nice browser on SHR/gta02 Oct 04 06:36:10 but honestly available RAM and contemporary web page design make it seem wiser to never open more than one page concurrently on N900 Oct 04 06:37:10 ooh, and moo Oct 04 06:39:19 Sazpaimon_: funny enough binaries for "simple" things are actually compatible between fremantle and harmattan. Basically all that is cli-based and doesn't need floating point calculations Oct 04 06:39:53 no problem to install and use things like less etc from N900 on N950 Oct 04 06:39:58 * mece hates shitty js on web. Oct 04 06:40:08 same here Oct 04 06:40:34 perhaps because all my computers are ancient pieces of crap Oct 04 06:40:41 except my N950 Oct 04 06:40:47 that's pretty new Oct 04 06:44:33 meh, my dualcore 1.8GHz + 2GB should suffice for pretty much all arbitrary web content to be found anywhere, but it SUCKS. Would suck as well on 18GHz+20GB octocore Oct 04 06:47:57 it's the FRIGGIN WEB-"PROGRAMMERS" that shit a pile on js on their "ACME Web2.oh" pages, then mess with it until it somewhat works on their particular browser and hw (of course run from their local HDD) and then even ask to get paid for that abomination Oct 04 06:48:15 I have a quad core 3.0 ghz, 8G of RAM, I have Chromium open with 60 odd tabs Oct 04 06:48:46 mhm, so what? Oct 04 06:48:54 works just fine :P Oct 04 06:49:00 mhm, so what? Oct 04 06:49:18 meh, my dualcore 1.8GHz + 2GB should suffice for pretty much all arbitrary web content to be found anywhere, but it SUCKS. Would suck as well on 18GHz+20GB octocore <---- replying to this remark Oct 04 06:49:45 you're not really asking me to give you a URL pointing to a page that sucks for your superduper hw as well? Oct 04 06:50:05 does it have flash? :P Oct 04 06:50:14 FUCK FLASH! Oct 04 06:50:22 ofc, fuck flash Oct 04 06:50:28 none of my 60 tabs have flash Oct 04 06:50:31 so it works Oct 04 06:50:36 * amiconn wonders what exotic web pages DocScrutinizer is referring to Oct 04 06:50:43 idiots using flash for menues for the mere shits and giggles should get shot! Oct 04 06:51:09 Idiots using flash for tabs, because they cant understand how to use divs Oct 04 06:52:35 fphover FTW! Oct 04 06:53:02 amiconn: e.g developer.nokia.com than has issues with login as soon as you change your cookie mgmt away from ootb standards, loads 150 pictures for each shitty new webpage (mind you loading 150 images is slow via medium grade dsl even on 3GHz 8GB hw!) Oct 04 06:53:54 then uses js for no good reason etc pp Oct 04 06:54:33 developer.nokia.com loads nice & quick for me. No login there, so can't test further Oct 04 06:54:44 pfff Oct 04 06:56:03 It's acktually okay even on N900 Oct 04 06:56:08 *actually Oct 04 06:56:43 I guess you're also using a 5GHz quad core with hyperacmeGPU-graca_overclocked and 16GB, of course with a 50GB cable the to internertz Oct 04 06:56:45 (using opera mobile) Oct 04 06:57:21 My laptop (where I tried it first) is a 2.4GHz Core2 Duo, 4 GB RAM Oct 04 06:57:24 also seems your metrics for "fast and nice" obviously differs from mine - are you web-"programmer"? Oct 04 06:57:38 Well on the laptop it loads in 1-2 seconds Oct 04 06:57:52 N900 needs about 15 Oct 04 06:57:59 MUHAHAHAHA Oct 04 06:58:20 so much for "fast and nice" Oct 04 06:58:53 1-2 seconds is fast & nice for a whole page in my book Oct 04 06:59:00 DocScrutinizer: I did web programming for quite a bit of time Oct 04 07:01:57 Completing the specs, the laptop just runs chipset graphics, and my internet connection is 25/5 Mbps vds2 Oct 04 07:03:17 loading developer.nokia.com: loading 162 pictures (which takes quite some time via my "slow" 2gb DSL), loading and starting js, and if you're unlucky even flash advertisments. compare ct.de which takes a third of the time Oct 04 07:03:45 amiconn: ooh only 25Mbps, I see Oct 04 07:03:47 What are advertisements? ;) Oct 04 07:03:56 adblock ftw Oct 04 07:04:13 HAHAHAHAHA Oct 04 07:04:25 I thought I saw an argument that a lot of internet slowness is due to overloaded ad servers Oct 04 07:04:29 caching on local HDD ftw EH? Oct 04 07:04:33 "Get all the information you need to port your applications from Qt to Windows Phone and from iOS and Android to Qt." Oct 04 07:04:34 wtf? Oct 04 07:04:44 where "internet" actually ment "web" Oct 04 07:05:07 why the heck would anyone port from iOS/Android to Qt at this point? Oct 04 07:05:29 luke-jr: maybe they built qt for windows phone? Oct 04 07:05:47 faina: IIRC, part of their agreement with Microsoft was that they would NOT port Qt to WinPhone Oct 04 07:06:01 and if they did, they wouldn't be saying port from Qt to WinPhone :P Oct 04 07:06:12 if you need another url that *really* sucks, by all metrics: o2.de Oct 04 07:07:20 I'd not be surprised if MSIE and FF on windows were the only two browsers and only platform where that page renders correct and is actually usable Oct 04 07:08:02 enough of ranting, have a few things in RL to sort... cya Oct 04 07:08:23 luke-jr: I'm baffled at why nokia is flailing so incoherently. Oct 04 07:10:55 DocScrutinizer: works fine in Konqueror Oct 04 07:11:16 Thehe, that one's even faster than developer.nokia.com. Loads in a second on desktop & laptop Oct 04 07:11:37 N900 gives me the mobile version, also fast enough but of course not comparable Oct 04 07:12:14 Ahh, I see foaming over web pages. Oct 04 07:12:37 Must be that time of the month again :O) Oct 04 07:14:49 So far the only cases of annoying web page slowness (on non-mobile) I've experienced were caused by overloaded servers. hp.com download pages do this often Oct 04 07:15:23 Mm, Flash. I guess I'm less biased against it, seeing as Albino Black Sheep is a favourite site of mine. And I'm evidently immune to adverts and the like that ustilise Flash, as I barely notice them these days. Oct 04 07:15:44 Slow pages... First World Problem. Oct 04 07:16:00 All it takes is a bit of patience. Oct 04 07:20:18 amiconn: you're out! 25Mbps downstream, c'mon your results are simply irrelevant for 95% of "normal" users Oct 04 07:21:45 No 'normal' users in HERE, Doc ;O) Oct 04 07:22:13 Nobody but us mutants. Oct 04 07:22:36 haha, yeah "can't see any wrong rendering - I'm blind" Oct 04 07:23:20 MicroB sometimes eats the formatting on El Reg.... most of the time it does it correctly. Some wiki also have this issue. Oct 04 07:29:38 pfft Oct 04 07:30:10 you're aware there are still 5..10% of users that are not able to get anything better than ISDN 64kbps? Exactly those that are NOT living in or next to a city Oct 04 07:30:18 My hardware is nowhere near the hyper-mega stuff you claimed though Oct 04 07:31:04 I didn't even get the vdsl because of the downstream, but rather because of the upstream. Oct 04 07:31:45 Lack of upstream was what annoyed me with my previous connection (plain adsl 3072/384 kbps) Oct 04 07:32:15 sdlmame works perfectly on the n900. This has to impress my girlfriends Oct 04 07:32:44 amiconn: which been only 50% better than what I got here Oct 04 07:33:52 amiconn: honestly, you're out! ;-D Oct 04 07:39:59 Eh, Doc is just jealous XD Oct 04 07:40:28 I got 20mbit ADSL at home, and due to my proximity to the exchange, I get almost all 20mbit down. Oct 04 07:40:50 Upstream is crap though. Not even half-meg. Oct 04 07:42:48 * amiconn ponders upgrading to 50/10 Oct 04 07:44:22 That's be nice. If only. Oct 04 07:44:56 Well according to the fritzbox, the line maxes out at 80/25 or so Oct 04 07:45:38 And 25/5 -> 50/10 means +5 €/month Oct 04 07:47:10 Ahh, infinitely more expensive/elusive here in the UK. Oct 04 07:48:08 Well that's just the upgrade, in case it wasn't clear Oct 04 07:48:43 Yeah, I meant it's expensively expensive for a line of that speed here. Oct 04 07:49:30 We run an ancient and odd infrastructure here still. Oct 04 09:37:37 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/04/patent_troll_targets_end_users/ Oct 04 10:20:53 Heh. Looks like the gas gauge chip gets rather confused by side-charging the battery :) Oct 04 10:27:09 Unless you charge ti through the normal circuitry, it's not going to notice the charging at all. Oct 04 10:27:29 and will think it's attached to an infinite battery. Oct 04 10:27:58 If it gets down t the learn threshold, then it will learn up capacity 1/8th a time towards infinity Oct 04 10:28:00 I'd love an infinite battery. Oct 04 10:39:43 CableTwitch: a *charged* infinite battery though Oct 04 10:50:47 I don't want an infinite battery. Just one weighing a ton or so, which can convert at the rate of a kilo a second or so. Oct 04 15:41:01 does the autobilder use gcc 4.2? Oct 04 15:41:22 if so, how do I submit an application I built with gcc 4.4, the only compiles on gcc >=4.4 Oct 04 15:47:55 hey DocScrutinizer, maybe you know this Oct 04 15:48:03 what gcc does the autobuilder use Oct 04 15:48:14 nfc, sry Oct 04 15:48:16 anyone know Java? Oct 04 15:48:26 I need someone to help with some Android code Oct 04 15:48:36 *burp* Oct 04 15:48:44 it's the only hint I found at querying the local bus website Oct 04 15:48:57 there's no documented API for it Oct 04 15:51:56 MohammadAG: hit me Oct 04 15:52:04 * MohammadAG hits merlin1991 Oct 04 15:52:20 lmao, you knew what I mean :D Oct 04 15:52:34 course, PM :P Oct 04 15:55:09 I note that the UK rail company really got pissy at a lot of people using an 'open' API with no permission Oct 04 15:55:31 Eventually pulled it, and requred authentication, with silly T&Cs Oct 04 16:03:03 pretty sure the company doesn't know what an API is Oct 04 16:04:05 API or AP? Oct 04 16:07:32 DocScrutinizer, API Oct 04 16:08:00 uhuh Oct 04 16:59:57 hi all Oct 04 17:00:25 is dual booting of meego which is installed on internal mmc and maemo possible? Oct 04 17:01:32 or nitdroid with maemo Oct 04 19:11:06 * zogg_ waves at #maemo Oct 04 19:11:23 \0 Oct 04 19:11:26 * faina waves back Oct 04 19:12:09 hey faina, howdy? Oct 04 19:12:14 Sicelo, \o/ Oct 04 19:12:16 hello Oct 04 19:12:25 MohammadAG, q Oct 04 19:12:47 I'm wasting time waiting to see if I fixed a bug in some slow running code Oct 04 19:13:07 what bug and what code? Oct 04 19:13:16 work. Oct 04 19:13:17 a? Oct 04 19:13:31 MohammadAG sup, long time no talk Oct 04 19:13:54 analyzing sequencer result files, and I'd made an assumption about file name formats that'd changed. Oct 04 19:14:31 I created a small test case, updated the code for the test case and got that working. Now I see if it can actually scan the real data. Oct 04 19:14:41 faina, is it just nickname or name? and what time is it there if you still at work? Oct 04 19:14:45 nic Oct 04 19:14:58 I'm in GMT-7/8 Oct 04 19:15:08 faina is common female name, that's why i asked Oct 04 19:15:18 not here in the US Oct 04 19:15:22 very dissappointed with my n900... Oct 04 19:15:26 MohammadAG, have you started to study already? Oct 04 19:15:39 vdv, give it to me than Oct 04 19:15:52 ZogG, yeah :) Oct 04 19:15:53 khertan, hey buddy, sup Oct 04 19:16:15 MohammadAG where and what? tehnion? computer science? Oct 04 19:16:33 slonopotamus, privet medved =) Oct 04 19:16:42 ZogG, will i become something instead of it? Oct 04 19:17:01 ZogG: zdraste :-/ Oct 04 19:17:10 ZogG, mchena atm Oct 04 19:17:11 vdv, you'll become great wizard, if i understood your question right Oct 04 19:17:23 MohammadAG, what about psyco? Oct 04 19:17:41 and hebrew? Oct 04 19:18:26 well, that's the mchena Oct 04 19:18:46 ZogG, that was receive.. Oct 04 19:19:11 i just miss up german and english words (bekommen == receive) Oct 04 19:19:13 MohammadAG for hebrew? or mehina is psyco? Oct 04 19:19:22 hebrew Oct 04 19:19:33 *mess up Oct 04 19:19:57 vdv sorry pal, ich nicht shprehen ze duetch, but if you want to give me your n900 as present i'll be more than glad Oct 04 19:20:10 MohammadAG what about psyco? Oct 04 19:20:59 btw can someone explain why tizen and not meego2? Oct 04 19:21:20 ZogG: IMO our corporate masters are insane Oct 04 19:21:22 politics, i think Oct 04 19:21:38 or at least directionless Oct 04 19:21:55 i just don't get it, jumping from place to place Oct 04 19:21:58 ZogG, screw that, mer's back Oct 04 19:22:16 they are losing money already, why would they spend more? Oct 04 19:22:30 IMO, Intel desperately needs a OS that can run on intel chips, Android seems tied to ARM. So they went hunting for a partner Oct 04 19:22:33 MohammadAG, mer is not enduser Oct 04 19:22:34 talk to elop Oct 04 19:22:40 MeeGo was enduser? Oct 04 19:22:49 it was the goal. Oct 04 19:22:50 which platform had MeeGo on it? Oct 04 19:23:02 so... $100 for porting tsc2301 driver onto 2.6.38 :) who'll give a bigger bid? Oct 04 19:23:02 faina, in reality, was it gonna achieve the goal? Oct 04 19:23:59 MohammadAG: beats me. All I can see is intel that intel is probably worried that all the growth is in the mobile market, and they're not shipping any chipsets there Oct 04 19:24:07 but mer is doesn't have vendor, that's my point Oct 04 19:24:12 users wouldn't have been interested in MeeGo if it hadn't been for Swipe Oct 04 19:24:17 and that's Harmattan, not MeeGo Oct 04 19:24:25 ZogG, MeeGo did, did it have any devices? Oct 04 19:24:27 and untill someone do release phone with it, it has nothing to do with non devs =( Oct 04 19:24:47 Original linux started out as a thing you used to replace your default OS with. It looks like we're going back to that place for the mobile world Oct 04 19:24:59 MohammadAG, harmattan was bsed on meego or am i wrong? Oct 04 19:25:07 true, but was it MeeGo? Oct 04 19:25:20 faina, the problem is closed phones and drivers Oct 04 19:25:22 ZogG: as far as I could tell is it was a hybrid. used some meego libraries but packages like maemo Oct 04 19:25:27 harmattan was not meego Oct 04 19:25:40 it was far from MeeGo Oct 04 19:25:51 ZogG: look at all the work that was done reverse engineering drivers in the PC/Laptop world. Oct 04 19:25:56 the only common factor would be libmeegotouch Oct 04 19:25:59 anyway i want some os tht actually running on phones Oct 04 19:26:02 natively Oct 04 19:26:05 iOS Oct 04 19:26:15 i have iphone Oct 04 19:26:18 actually Oct 04 19:26:23 all OSs run natively on phones Oct 04 19:26:24 i cn switch it with you for n950 Oct 04 19:26:35 I'd like an HTML5 kernel, would be interesting Oct 04 19:26:41 I don't have my N950 Oct 04 19:26:42 ZogG: maybe samsung will do something not stupid and release hardware for this platform we can work with. Who knows. Oct 04 19:26:46 let me correct myself i want linux os running on my phone Oct 04 19:26:53 and android is not linux =) Oct 04 19:27:11 technically, it is, linux is just a kernel Oct 04 19:27:19 http://wiki.debian.org/Mobile Oct 04 19:27:33 wmarone, i don't have that much money to buy phone every month just to check if it will be supported and has any future Oct 04 19:28:34 faina nothing there Oct 04 19:28:43 MohammadAG you know what i mean Oct 04 19:28:46 ZogG: I want a posix-like linux environment on my phone too. Oct 04 19:29:01 ZogG: the problem is a lack of software Oct 04 19:29:17 it's a pitty i couldn't get hp touchpad Oct 04 19:29:27 the debian wiki points to a few projects that may or may not actually run on a phone. Oct 04 19:29:28 slonopotamus++ Oct 04 19:29:33 and the lack of APIs doesn't help Oct 04 19:29:42 slonopotamus btw it Daniel ported funtoo on it =) Oct 04 19:30:04 MohammadAG: isn't it more there are too many half-finished APIs? Oct 04 19:30:10 i'll end up buying android phone Oct 04 19:30:15 gtk, qt, qt-declarative... Oct 04 19:30:20 faina, not those APIs Oct 04 19:30:27 usually apps are for something like a service Oct 04 19:30:33 What's missing? closed apps Oct 04 19:30:54 ZogG: there's a handful of android phones that have unlocked boot loaders. Which would at least allow you to switch to something more open. Oct 04 19:30:55 closed apps are fun, isn't it? Oct 04 19:30:57 MohammadAG: apis are less relevant. linux has at least three ui libs, but no single working mobile ui. Oct 04 19:31:04 people are buying iPhones for apps like Viber, Whatsapp Oct 04 19:31:16 slonopotamus, you clearly haven't used libmeegotouch then Oct 04 19:31:22 faina, but drivers and support Oct 04 19:31:35 android is what it is coz of Google Oct 04 19:31:36 ZogG: Have you seen cyanogenmod? Oct 04 19:31:37 I was referring to web service APIs Oct 04 19:31:43 coz they know to promote and support Oct 04 19:31:45 Shazam's missing, there's no API Oct 04 19:31:49 faina, yes Oct 04 19:31:52 Whatsapp, it's built on XMPP, but no API Oct 04 19:31:58 Viber, closed crap, no API Oct 04 19:31:59 MohammadAG: "lib" in its word is a hint to me Oct 04 19:32:17 slonopotamus, Harmattan's UI works fine Oct 04 19:32:18 MohammadAG, whatsapp is not free anymore Oct 04 19:32:28 and viber wouldn't be for a long time i think Oct 04 19:32:30 MohammadAG: works fine where? in harmattan; Oct 04 19:32:31 it's free for Symbian uses Oct 04 19:32:32 ? Oct 04 19:32:32 I think there are drivers available for some phones. Oct 04 19:32:39 slonopotamus, yes Oct 04 19:32:58 Though it might be like the nightmare of 3d drivers on desktop linux Oct 04 19:33:05 faina, think twice Oct 04 19:33:23 or optimus nightmare for laptops =) Oct 04 19:33:24 MohammadAG: that's the point. there is no such thing as a standalone "Harmattan UI". there's "Harmattan UI as a part of Harmattan OS" Oct 04 19:33:49 there's hildon, no one worked on it Oct 04 19:33:54 MohammadAG, it was free for iOS for a while too Oct 04 19:34:10 people still use it over free XMPP Oct 04 19:34:11 yep. and maybe it was wrong. Oct 04 19:34:56 MohammadAG, there is a good reason for that Oct 04 19:35:08 common user doesn't care or knows what is XMPP Oct 04 19:35:14 he want app that works Oct 04 19:35:26 when it's not other client Oct 04 19:35:36 Facebook chat? Oct 04 19:35:39 it's XMPP based Oct 04 19:35:40 but app that makes everything for you you just sent msgs Oct 04 19:35:53 https://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon/hildon is it fremantle hildon? Oct 04 19:36:05 and i mean no need in registration and various clients Oct 04 19:36:26 jut one client that works on all devices and knows if your friends have it Oct 04 19:37:17 I guess we could hit Whatsapp Oct 04 19:37:22 I wonder if the idea's patented Oct 04 19:37:41 what exactly? Oct 04 19:37:45 viber is the same Oct 04 19:37:48 and talkbox Oct 04 19:38:12 anyone wanna set up an XMPP server that's free and uses numbers as usernames? Oct 04 19:38:28 numbers suck Oct 04 19:38:34 :P Oct 04 19:38:46 slonopotamus, end user wouldn't know Oct 04 19:38:56 that's how Whatsapp works :p Oct 04 19:39:01 enter your phone number Oct 04 19:39:04 ZogG: icq users do. Oct 04 19:39:07 it runs through your contact list Oct 04 19:39:22 sees which numbers it has on the server, and shows them in the UI Oct 04 19:39:59 slonopotamus, you didn't get, there is difference between to get number as nickname or to use indefication as phone number, as[ecially as it runs on phone Oct 04 19:40:18 only concern for me is verification Oct 04 19:40:29 sending SMSs for registration is costly Oct 04 19:40:55 MohammadAG, use email instead Oct 04 19:41:17 MohammadAG, use gtalk as base at all so no need in server Oct 04 19:41:22 and that confirms it's your number how? Oct 04 19:41:54 what prevents me from using your number and sending messages to your gf so she breaks up with you? Oct 04 19:42:00 tricky question =) Oct 04 19:42:09 you had to ruin everything ah? Oct 04 19:42:30 MohammadAG, she wouldn't =P Oct 04 19:42:31 there's a reason whatsapp confirms your number Oct 04 19:42:39 ZogG, not after what you said to her Oct 04 19:43:09 she knows i have some dudes over internet that can joke Oct 04 19:43:23 what if you say I'm breaking up with you Oct 04 19:43:30 she wouldn't know it's a dude over the internet Oct 04 19:43:32 it's your number Oct 04 19:43:32 she is from yamen and has no understanding in computers Oct 04 19:44:08 MohammadAG, i have an idea Oct 04 19:44:25 you use whatsapp as registration approval Oct 04 19:44:32 =) Oct 04 19:44:44 wow, that works on Harmattan how? Oct 04 19:44:47 we're back to step 1 Oct 04 19:45:13 you need to have two phones =) Oct 04 19:45:33 it would be migration from old phone Oct 04 19:45:58 anyway n9 is for geeks Oct 04 19:46:15 or ucan try to email whatsapp devs Oct 04 19:47:59 N9's for geeks? Oct 04 19:48:02 you're very wrong Oct 04 19:48:05 geeks would hate the N9 Oct 04 19:48:16 the N9's your typical phone Oct 04 19:48:20 it's no N900 Oct 04 19:50:37 tss Oct 04 19:50:40 im a geek and i love the n9 Oct 04 20:14:52 Anyone here familliar with pulseaudio codin Oct 04 20:14:53 g Oct 04 20:15:13 I have a program that's using pa_stream_begin_write and pa_stream_cancel_write as well as PA_CONTEXT_NOFLAGS Oct 04 20:15:21 none of these exist in maemo's PA Oct 04 20:15:29 is there a workaround that anyone knows? Oct 04 20:30:25 MohammadAG: what's the problem with sms? Oct 04 20:30:37 the only thing is you'd need local numbers in each country Oct 04 20:31:52 merlin1991, yeah... Oct 04 20:31:56 can you afford that? Oct 04 20:32:43 well no, but I bet if we do that within the mamemo community we could get lines in a few countries Oct 04 20:33:11 like I can'T afford lines everywhere, but donate the austrian one to the project would be possible Oct 04 21:47:59 it would be interesting if someone set up a SMS XMPP gateway <.< Oct 04 21:48:15 bypassing SMS when both numbers are connected to it possibly Oct 04 21:51:09 that seems like an alteration to the xmpp servers routing protocol? Also how would the sms get back to the xmpp server? Oct 04 21:51:28 I know there's internet to sms gateways for some mobile phone networks. Oct 04 21:52:52 faina: the same way people reply to Google Voice SMS Oct 04 21:57:25 luke-jr: I think it requires the cooperation of the mobile phone network. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_gateway Oct 04 21:58:46 It does look like there are companies that'll sell you 2-way sms services though Oct 04 22:39:53 you got problems :-P the question is: who's going to *pay* for all those SMS? Oct 04 22:43:14 Yeah, that's why my solution is don't use SMSes but instead stay connected to my jabber server 24/7 Oct 04 22:44:48 I stay on irc 24/7, and I could stay on my public server box 24/7 as well (actually I do with IRC bouncer ZNC already) Oct 04 22:45:33 I'm still trying to decide if I like IRC... Oct 04 22:45:43 and my gsm carrier offers SMS notification on inbound email for free Oct 04 22:46:37 I for ure like it better than jabber Oct 04 22:47:06 the jabber group chat has some serious issues. Oct 04 22:47:19 but for point-to-point jabber seems a bit more straight forward? Oct 04 22:47:46 how so? Oct 04 22:48:59 no issues with /query faina, or whomever I want to reach. As long as I know that person is logged in to a certain IRC network... Oct 04 22:49:16 and I know the nickname Oct 04 22:50:54 and after all there's still SIP as well, has also a chat function Oct 04 22:51:21 aah I forgot I'm 24/7 online with my SIP account of course Oct 04 22:51:58 and via 3G SIP VoIP even works quite well with my carrier Oct 04 22:52:43 maybe a bit laggy Oct 04 22:53:34 moo Oct 04 22:53:42 moo chem|st Oct 04 22:53:54 jabber has proper encryption layers... Oct 04 22:54:00 meh Oct 04 22:54:47 but most clients do not support the full spectrum of jabber so who cares Oct 04 22:54:55 I rarely need encrypted realtime duplex communication Oct 04 22:55:35 thats you... Oct 04 22:55:50 what about terrorists? Oct 04 22:55:53 yup, and if I'd need, there's ZRTP Oct 04 22:56:04 rofl Oct 04 22:56:20 bad joke I know Oct 04 22:56:32 reboot Oct 04 22:57:07 terrorists???? will not tuch encryption with a 10 feet pole usually, as that is like shouting "watch here, I'm going to do nasty" Oct 04 22:57:53 * faina distracted by coworkers Oct 04 22:58:10 terrorists use steganography or simple old codewords Oct 04 23:00:10 or nothing of all that, as they are stupid as a cut down tree - otherwise they were not interested in terrorism Oct 04 23:00:23 ;) Oct 04 23:00:45 off to bed... happy easter! Oct 04 23:01:19 and a merry new year Oct 04 23:18:42 DocScrutinizer: /query opens up a direct message with them? Oct 04 23:18:58 sure Oct 04 23:28:14 you also can /query with infobot ;-) Oct 04 23:28:18 ~query Oct 04 23:28:18 talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :) Oct 04 23:28:45 one other question... the /query rooms are they actually treated as rooms or as just as extra buffers? (Though that might be better asked in #emacs) Oct 04 23:29:23 I think I've seen an infobot in other channels? Oct 04 23:29:38 Somone/thing in #python remaps pastebins Oct 04 23:29:40 queries are (in)direct client to client, they are not like rooms that can get joined by other 3rd parties Oct 04 23:29:49 ~chaninfo Oct 04 23:29:49 I'm on 120 channels: #debian/1071, #meego/397, #maemo/324, #kde/323, #asterisk/204, #gsoc/174, #webos-internals/172, #wowuidev/159, #wowace/138, #oe/137, #harmattan/121, #wowhead/120, #openmoko/103, #htc-linux/75, #openmoko-cdevel/72, #uclibc/63, #tomcat/63, #utah/60, #bzflag/59, #curseforge/55, #asterisk-dev/54, #diablofans/53, #sc2mapster/48, #slug/46, #edev/43, #riftuidev/42, #/37, #uphpu/35, #elinux/31, #norganna/29, #gllug/24, ##kierra/24, ... Oct 04 23:29:49 i've cached 4932 users, 3589 unique users, distributed over 120 channels. Oct 04 23:30:37 Ah, is there a way to find what channels there are? Oct 04 23:30:56 yup, usually your client has a command for that Oct 04 23:31:14 is there a way to get a count before you do the query? Oct 04 23:31:14 sth like /channels or /chanlist or dunno Oct 04 23:31:42 A long time ago I tried a channel list (I think) and got bored of watching my screen scroll for several minutes Oct 04 23:31:57 probably not, as even my client warns me about the traffic that "F5" will cause Oct 04 23:32:24 yup, probably several 1000s of channels Oct 04 23:33:01 there's an URL / a webpage somewhere Oct 04 23:33:14 supposed to list all freenode channels Oct 04 23:33:33 probably next to freenode web frontend Oct 04 23:33:41 aka gateway Oct 04 23:34:10 http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist Oct 04 23:34:12 http://webchat.freenode.net/ Oct 04 23:34:16 aah Oct 04 23:34:43 I wonder what the sort order is. Oct 04 23:34:53 Ah users.... Oct 04 23:35:02 No wonder #ubuntu is never quiet Oct 04 23:36:19 >>Searched for ''. 10864 matching entries found.<< :-D Oct 04 23:36:22 some channels on that list include # and some don't? I thought all irc channel names started with # Oct 04 23:40:05 some start with ## Oct 04 23:40:22 the ## is a temporary channel? Oct 04 23:40:31 somewhat, yes Oct 04 23:41:05 non-official or whatever channels. You probably mustn't create #ibm, but you may create ##ibm Oct 04 23:41:19 iirc Oct 04 23:41:38 ok Oct 04 23:41:43 there are also local channels that start with & Oct 04 23:41:52 duh? Oct 04 23:41:55 local? Oct 04 23:41:57 but I don't think Freenode supports that Oct 04 23:42:14 yeah in IRC networks you can create a server local channel that are not network wide channel Oct 04 23:42:19 it only exists in the server you're connected Oct 04 23:42:41 you can try in a network like EFnet something like: /join &test Oct 04 23:42:43 and it will work. Oct 04 23:42:46 ooh, a voluntary netsplit? nice ;-P Oct 04 23:43:22 my point is not all channels start with # :P Oct 04 23:43:53 Ok Oct 04 23:44:04 the fact I never know where chat.freenode.net will connect me to will somewhat defeat the purpose of those local channels ;-) Oct 04 23:45:50 faina: if you ever run across a command like /writeall or /amsg or sth like that - beware, it sends to all channels you're logged in and that will make freenode ban you for a week or two Oct 04 23:46:06 ah thank you Oct 04 23:46:22 though right now I'm only logged into 2-4 channels Oct 04 23:46:39 I can see the temptation to log into scores though. Oct 04 23:46:40 might suffice, depending on size of the channels Oct 04 23:46:51 ah ok. Oct 04 23:47:10 Also ... do you ever suffer from channel overload? Oct 04 23:48:06 idoru was the nasty bot doing that Oct 04 23:48:26 if you send to several channels where idoru is a user, you get klined Oct 04 23:48:50 faina: channel overload? like join-throttling? Oct 04 23:48:51 is there a way to recognize bots? Oct 04 23:48:57 not reallya Oct 04 23:49:10 more ... puny human brain being overloaded with too many different threads of conversation Oct 04 23:49:16 except Turing test ;-D Oct 04 23:49:29 sure, all the time Oct 04 23:50:19 Bots are getting closer and closer to passing that test. Oct 04 23:50:27 the trick is to ruthlessly ignore when things don't sound interesting Oct 04 23:51:05 I already passed it :) Oct 04 23:51:48 One of the things that seems appealing of IRC over something like twitter... is twitter will helpfully keep track of all the messages, including when you werent there. so you end up further and further behind. Oct 04 23:52:02 IRC was nice because when I was disconnected I could pretend it doesn't exist Oct 04 23:52:43 or you look at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Oct 04 23:53:10 but yeah, irc is inherently volatile Oct 04 23:53:23 Nooooo! ;) (yeah I've looked at that to see what someone was currently talking about while I was out) Oct 04 23:53:38 also not all channels log Oct 04 23:53:43 yes Oct 04 23:56:10 thank you for the pointers to irc culture Oct 04 23:56:16 yw Oct 04 23:56:44 if you don't mind (I like to read that one myself every now and then): Oct 04 23:56:47 ~ask Oct 04 23:56:47 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Oct 04 23:56:50 err Oct 04 23:56:57 ~question Oct 04 23:56:57 hmm... question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Oct 04 23:56:57 so I just installed libgcc1, libstdc++6, and gcc4.4-base from ubuntu lucid to my N900 Oct 04 23:57:03 there were no conflicts Oct 04 23:57:05 no errors Oct 04 23:57:10 and now lightspark is starting Oct 04 23:57:21 i hope I didn't break anything else though Oct 04 23:57:49 as long as there wasn't already a libgcc1 / libstdc++6 it should be good Oct 04 23:58:30 there was Oct 04 23:58:36 it replaced them Oct 04 23:58:45 everything is still running fine Oct 04 23:58:52 have you rebooted the phone? Oct 04 23:58:54 lol Oct 04 23:58:57 what? Oct 04 23:59:04 no not yet, pretty sure I'm about to reflash it Oct 04 23:59:16 Linux doesn't delete files until all of the open file handles have been closed Oct 04 23:59:19 you installed a new libgcc etc? possibly a x86 based one? Oct 04 23:59:29 DocScrutinizer, why would I do that Oct 04 23:59:33 so if something had already opened the old libgcc1 open, it should still have a handle to it Oct 04 23:59:34 why would dpkg allow that Oct 04 23:59:59 dpkg should toss a warning if the architecture doesn't match Oct 05 00:00:05 exactly Oct 05 00:00:09 faina: exactly. Next boot goes BOOM Oct 05 00:00:11 Im going to reboot now and see what happens Oct 05 00:00:42 prepare for bootloop Oct 05 00:00:45 though... there is something you could do Oct 05 00:00:48 lucid's armel libstdc++6 is linked to 2.4>=libc6 Oct 05 00:01:19 extract just the so from the old version and drop it in place Oct 05 00:01:21 sure, do a backup with backupmenu. But you should've done that before you replaced system libs Oct 05 00:01:34 e.g. so you'd have libgcc1.x.y and libgcc1.a.b Oct 05 00:01:35 DocScrutinizer, why, I only will need to reflash rootfs Oct 05 00:01:50 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Oct 05 00:01:59 your reflash, not mine :-) Oct 05 00:02:25 yeah, it seems suck on the bootup lights Oct 05 00:02:29 *stuck Oct 05 00:02:39 oh well, what can you do Oct 05 00:02:43 may I ask what'S the purpose of this experiment? Oct 05 00:02:49 oh wait, it started Oct 05 00:02:59 DocScrutinizer, lightspark only works on gcc 4.4 Oct 05 00:03:05 so I had to compile it with that Oct 05 00:03:28 naturally this breaks compatabiity on the device Oct 05 00:03:51 anyway, the OS started up Oct 05 00:03:59 looks fine, but its not detecting my sim card now Oct 05 00:04:00 umm, so you probably could have proper symlinks to the according matching lib versions and nothing bad would happen if all is done correctly Oct 05 00:04:51 you mean package the program with its own libstdc++.so.6? Oct 05 00:04:56 and libgcc.so.1? Oct 05 00:05:28 depending on lightspark linking you also could place the gcc4.4 locally into lightspark's dir Oct 05 00:05:51 DocScrutinizer, what do you mean with gcc4.4 Oct 05 00:05:59 i meant that it requires gcc4.4 to build Oct 05 00:07:21 err I meant the libs you need Oct 05 00:07:28 man ld-linux|less +'/The shared libraries needed by the program are searched for' Oct 05 00:08:34 yeah that might work, since the libc6 version is fine Oct 05 00:08:43 >> ld.so understands the string $ORIGIN (or equivalently ${ORIGIN}) in an rpath specification (DT_RPATH or DT_RUNPATH) to mean the directory con- taining the application executable. Thus, an application located in somedir/app could be compiled with gcc -Wl,-rpath,'$ORIGIN/../lib' so that it finds an associated shared library in somedir/lib no matter where somedir is located in the directory hierarchy. Oct 05 00:08:44 This facilitates the creation of "turn-key" applications that do not need to be installed into special directories, but can instead be unpacked into any directory and still find their own shared libraries.<< Oct 05 00:09:32 I'll roll back the installation of libstdc++6 because it seems to have broken the detection of the sim card Oct 05 00:09:42 surprisngly everything else works Oct 05 00:10:24 unless its a fluke that the sim card isnt getting detected Oct 05 00:11:37 I guess there's not that much of core system that's coded in c++ Oct 05 00:11:53 opera ran fine, I'm pretty sure that's coded in c++ Oct 05 00:12:00 so did microb Oct 05 00:12:45 but the ABI probably wasnt backward compatible enough Oct 05 00:13:53 basically if a lib isn't abi compatible, it mustn't use same version number and thus won't get used by apps linked against the older version Oct 05 00:14:43 how do I request a specific version number with apt again? Oct 05 00:15:07 err app=version, sth like that Oct 05 00:15:10 mompls Oct 05 00:15:47 I wonder what the output of ldd on microb would be. (Not sure where the executable is) Oct 05 00:15:53 /usr/bin/apt-get install hildon-desktop=1:2.2.140-1+0m5 Oct 05 00:16:18 okay so I want libstdc++6=4.2.1-4maemo13+0m5 Oct 05 00:21:29 http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html might help Oct 05 00:22:13 >>When a new version of a library is binary-incompatible with the old one the soname needs to change.<< Oct 05 00:24:05 >>For C++ (and other languages supporting compiled-in templates and/or compiled dispatched methods), the situation is trickier. All of the above issues apply, plus many more issues. The reason is that some information is implemented ``under the covers'' in the compiled code, resulting in dependencies that may not be obvious if you don't know how C++ is typically implemented.<< Oct 05 01:19:10 uh Oct 05 01:19:43 so I rolloed back my libstdc++6 Oct 05 01:19:56 and my sim card still isnt beinf detected Oct 05 01:20:14 anything I can do before I reflash? Oct 05 01:30:48 DocScrutinizer, ping Oct 05 01:31:08 hmm? Oct 05 01:31:38 [21:16] uh Oct 05 01:31:39 [21:17] so I rolloed back my libstdc++6 Oct 05 01:31:39 [21:17] and my sim card still isnt beinf detected Oct 05 01:31:39 [21:17] anything I can do before I reflash? Oct 05 01:32:01 given the history I'd strongly suggest a reflash, prior to anything else Oct 05 01:32:38 can I reflash on the device itself, or is that just for the kernel Oct 05 01:32:47 you're still free to do a proper backup first, so you could roll back, for whatever purpose Oct 05 01:33:08 I dont have any computers handy with the drivers installed Oct 05 01:33:12 err, rootfs can't get reflashed without PC and USB Oct 05 01:33:31 thought as much Oct 05 01:33:43 at least this time of day I can't figure how to do it Oct 05 01:34:41 my menu->settings->about also isnt showing an imei Oct 05 01:34:43 strange Oct 05 01:35:43 reflash (or reinstall linisi, rtcom-dunno-what rtc) Oct 05 01:35:50 libisi Oct 05 01:36:03 etc Oct 05 01:36:07 *yawn* Oct 05 01:38:26 libisi1? Oct 05 01:38:29 I'll try it Oct 05 01:38:34 probably the most direct way to talk to modem is via pnatd Oct 05 01:39:00 should talk to libisi, and libisi will talk to the modem aiui Oct 05 01:40:32 AAAH, and GPS isn't possible without cellmo working Oct 05 01:41:19 (but then a GPS that can't get a fix isn't anything special) Oct 05 01:41:42 pnatd: AT ->OK Oct 05 01:42:09 -->modem alive Oct 05 01:42:46 I got the same result Oct 05 01:42:54 OK? Oct 05 01:43:00 yep Oct 05 01:43:29 hmm, so somebody isn't talking nicely to modem, to make it detect and register the SIM Oct 05 01:43:45 or the SIM (or anything in modem) is broken Oct 05 01:43:51 I tried a second sim Oct 05 01:44:16 i dont think changing the libstdc++ library would brick the modem Oct 05 01:44:49 I'm quite sure the process that asks for PIN and talks to cellmo to enable GSM is dead, or blows chunks Oct 05 01:47:34 aiui this process also looks somewhere in gconf, or CAL, to get the PIN when set to "don't ask", any of that could have been shot down by libstdc++ Oct 05 01:48:11 possibly even wrote bogus data to the storage, and now it doesn't work anymore even with a perfect lib Oct 05 01:48:31 so a fresh rootfs is probably my only option Oct 05 01:48:44 your best option for sure Oct 05 01:49:30 wait a second Oct 05 01:51:34 I'm listening Oct 05 01:51:38 never mind, can't find it right now. Probably a silly idea anyway Oct 05 01:52:17 thought about asking modem via AT about some SIM detail, oder modem detail (like IMEI) Oct 05 01:52:32 but what would that tell us? Oct 05 01:53:10 if it works we know it's *probably* the rootfs and some process(-config) there, and if it doesn'T work we don't know anything Oct 05 01:53:57 can you run ldd over the binaries and libs? that might be able to find something? Oct 05 01:54:55 that isnt the issue, I dont think Oct 05 02:00:22 You can reflash the device using an install of meego on the SD card and the bootloader installed. Oct 05 02:00:27 I forget how Oct 05 02:10:15 hmmhmm, maybe this start update-mode or what it's been caled, to enable --local Oct 05 02:10:47 but then this would require flasher binary running on meego Oct 05 02:12:31 sure you could restore a backup (or an unpacked rootfs image, for that) from a auxiliary system that's not even mounting the NAND Oct 05 02:12:57 via mtd_debug, or flasherase & nandwrite Oct 05 02:14:07 I'd recommend good ol'reflashing, the most basic method Oct 05 02:14:51 esp since that would also deal with NOLO and cellmo-FW, just in case Oct 05 02:15:47 and (the big mytery) probably even with repartitioning NAND mtdparts Oct 05 02:15:54 mystery* **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 05 02:59:58 2011