**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 06 02:59:56 2011 Oct 06 04:27:35 nokia and monster.... Oct 06 04:27:47 man, why do nokia have to screw EVERYTHING up... Oct 06 04:38:55 good question Oct 06 04:38:59 i love my n900 Oct 06 04:39:25 would not mind having an n9 too if it did not involve huge sums of money vanishing Oct 06 04:42:08 Moo. Oct 06 04:50:38 something new happened to nokia this night? Oct 06 05:28:11 RST38h: well, steve jobs died Oct 06 05:28:13 does that count? Oct 06 05:54:19 RST38h: yeah. jobs came there as a ghost and said he would get them out of the gutter like apple Oct 06 05:54:42 but then walked into the light laughing Oct 06 05:56:46 'lo o/ Oct 06 06:01:50 http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-05/apple-beats-htc-as-nokia-customer-loyalty-has-first-decline.html Oct 06 06:01:56 nokia is doomed Oct 06 06:02:17 they are the starter jackets of the cell phone industry Oct 06 06:02:42 in the 1990s people were getting shot in the knees and their starter jackets stolen Oct 06 06:02:55 now you can get a starter jacket at walmart Oct 06 06:16:20 I'm thinking apple and nokia are going to lose out to samsung and motorola over the next few years in a big way Oct 06 06:17:20 doc|home: haha Oct 06 06:17:53 they're just calibrating the RDF for tim cook Oct 06 06:18:26 eh? Oct 06 06:18:36 the Reality Distortion Field Oct 06 06:18:49 oh, hah Oct 06 06:19:05 once it's back at full functionality... Oct 06 06:19:19 yesterday definitely wasn't it Oct 06 06:20:28 meh, the voice interface is cute Oct 06 06:21:10 so are minis Oct 06 06:21:14 I wouldn't buy one... Oct 06 06:28:17 I suppose the voice interface is not available for older models? you know, there has to be a clear annoying feature to see the difference between true believer and a traitor that doesn't buy new model immediately Oct 06 06:28:49 and what would be more annoying than people going around and speaking to their phones when they have no person to talk to Oct 06 06:28:53 just to show off Oct 06 06:29:45 'hello, computer?' Oct 06 07:00:30 n9 is not linux is it? It's symbian, right? Oct 06 07:01:36 kwtm, it's linux Oct 06 07:01:39 debian based Oct 06 07:01:45 in practice, maemo 6 Oct 06 07:02:32 Really? Wow, and here I thought there was no hope for a new Linux phone. Is it a phone and computer, like the n900? I remember that there was something that prevented it from being my next thing to buy when the n900 broke down. Sorry, I'm being lazy, I should wikipedia it. Oct 06 07:02:48 kwtm, no keyboard Oct 06 07:04:06 kwtm, it also has aegis, so some limitations on what you can do with the original software. You can flash custom kernels tho. Otherwise, it's full linux stack. Busybox like maemo 5. Oct 06 07:04:12 ~aegis Oct 06 07:04:12 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif Oct 06 07:05:30 mece: Thanks. Will look into this. So far will stick to my plan of getting a backup N900 (less work to set up new system, and I see that Nokia is dumping it as a dead end) Oct 06 07:05:33 no removeable battery, no expansion slot, microSIM supported (?) Oct 06 07:05:44 Of course, Nokia itself is probably the living embodiment of a dead end. :P Oct 06 07:06:12 psycho_oreos: Are you serious, I have to carve up my SIM to get it to work, and I can't even take out a piece of memory (microSD)? Oct 06 07:06:13 kwtm, who cares, it's not as if maemo5 was going anywhere either. Oct 06 07:06:25 kwtm, yeah microsim Oct 06 07:06:37 kwtm, apparently its going to have to be cut up Oct 06 07:06:45 mece: True, more or less, except I already put work into getting my N900 to work the way I want, so I might as well get more for it. :P Oct 06 07:07:23 I guess smartphone users of the world enjoy buying new apps for their phone and there's not really that big a market for people who like to have their desktop apps ported to their phone. Oct 06 07:07:25 kwtm, it has a lot of downsides compared to n900, but there are a couple of pretty big upsides. Or, one in particular. 1Gb ram. Damn that is something you feel Oct 06 07:07:28 kwtm, and yes no expandable storage, that's Flop's ultimatum in screwing up N9/meego harmattan as much as he can along with jacked up prices and only to be sold in certan countries Oct 06 07:07:47 also the ui is rather sweet. Oct 06 07:07:54 s/certan/certain/ Oct 06 07:07:55 psycho_oreos meant: kwtm, and yes no expandable storage, that's Flop's ultimatum in screwing up N9/meego harmattan as much as he can along with jacked up prices and only to be sold in certain countries Oct 06 07:08:14 kwtm, unfortunately it's much more of a smartphone than a computer. Oct 06 07:08:31 Well, I've seen the N900 UI. I don't trust Nokia any more with having sweet UI's. Oct 06 07:09:11 Who the **** decided that the "battery charging" status icon would be an animated icon that, 25% of the time, would look exactly like a phone running really low on batteries? :P Oct 06 07:09:12 quote from Hutch (3) "Nokia N9 makes Apple look like Samsung" <- :D Oct 06 07:09:21 LOL Oct 06 07:10:01 kwtm, well the N9 is a very very different beast on the ui side. Very. Oct 06 07:10:13 kwtm, that problem you mentioned is still there and still annoying tho. Oct 06 07:10:29 mece: Perhaps you may be right. But, ... oh well. Oct 06 07:10:31 the charging indicator starts from half batter doesnt it? Oct 06 07:10:51 kwtm: you should look at the N9 UI before dismissing it tbh... http://swipe.nokia.com Oct 06 07:10:56 frals, hmm does it? I think it goes from bottom with N950 beta2 Oct 06 07:11:00 but best is to try it in person, videos/images doesnt make it justice Oct 06 07:11:06 frals, it could change color. that would be nice. Oct 06 07:11:35 mece: ok, im running different fw and its starting from half Oct 06 07:11:57 or maybe its because im actually at half abtter now... Oct 06 07:12:00 kwtm, yeah try it if you like. Besides its faults, It's the only proper linux phone on the market, and it is absolutely awesome as a smartphone. Oct 06 07:12:19 frals, LOL Oct 06 07:12:21 I'd like to get my hands on the guy who decided that, tapping on a friend's face means, not that you phone that friend, but that you have to select from phoning his cell / home / sending SMS to his work / bla bla, and then once you phone, you have to tap a button to say, "Yes, please bring up the Special Advanced Screen so I can have a dialpad, since it's SO RARE to actually use a dialpad when phoning..." (followed by having to close Oct 06 07:12:22 that Dialpad screen before you can even hang up ...) Oct 06 07:13:09 kwtm, I'd hate to have the phone call when I click on someones face. I'd like to give "that guy" a hug. Oct 06 07:13:16 mece: Yeah, unfortunately, unless I get to take a vacation in one of a select number of countries, I'll never get to try the phone. :P Oct 06 07:13:28 kwtm, ah, bummer. Oct 06 07:13:33 * amiconn would *possibly* buy an N950 if those were available for sale. Oct 06 07:14:00 That List of Countries Where N9 Is Not Available? They just went through a list of "Let's see, which countries did kwtm visit in the past few years ... ?" Oct 06 07:14:05 Some advantages and some disadvantages compared to N900. I certainly won't buy an N9 - severe step back imo Oct 06 07:15:02 amiconn, As a hacker device it's definitely a step back. the lack of keyboard is a big issue there. Oct 06 07:15:16 Anyone here actually have a N9? If yes, from where did you get it? Oct 06 07:15:35 mece: Yeah, I'm trying to imagine vim on a keyboardless phone. :P Oct 06 07:15:49 Yeah, lack of hw keyboard is the show stopper for me Oct 06 07:15:54 kwtm, frals works for Nokia and has one. Oct 06 07:16:03 frals, you still work for nokia, right? Oct 06 07:16:54 although that's probably the best editor to have, already, out of all the ones. I sometimes use the onscreen keyboard on the N900 with vim and have to type ggyyGP or something like that. :P Oct 06 07:17:07 heh Oct 06 07:17:48 I use nano and khteditor Oct 06 07:18:13 mece: When you say N9 is only proper linux phone, you mean besides N900? Or is the N900 disqualified in your mind? Oct 06 07:18:27 d'oh Oct 06 07:18:32 kwtm, besides N900 of course. N900 is the linuxest phone :) Oct 06 07:18:41 I found out that I still have the warranty on my N900 Oct 06 07:18:55 mece: Vim is not for everyone. I'm glad I learned it, but it's a huge learning curve. nano's useful, but a lot of Ctrl- i think, and no scripting, right? Oct 06 07:18:57 kwtm, N900 is still the best hacker device by far, and I love it! Oct 06 07:19:03 the usb plug came out, known problem of course Oct 06 07:19:15 and the Nokia Service offered me E7 for a replacement :P Oct 06 07:19:23 Jartza: Are they still supporting that? Oh, E7. :P Oct 06 07:19:38 Jartza, that's terrible. but you might sell the E7 and buy N900 from somewhere else Oct 06 07:19:49 I didn't agree Oct 06 07:19:56 Jartza, what did they say? Oct 06 07:20:03 "USB plug came out? Sorry we don't have a replacement model --how about a year's supply of pink pony stickers for your Nokia Dumfone?" Oct 06 07:20:07 I told them I want my money back but they told me it's not possible :) Oct 06 07:20:12 but the fight is not over yet Oct 06 07:20:29 Jartza, they did not want to try fix it? Oct 06 07:20:45 nope Oct 06 07:20:48 hm Oct 06 07:20:55 they didn't even open it Oct 06 07:21:05 MoonTiger is selling me his extra N900. Oct 06 07:21:12 did you break off a bit of the circuit board or did the port come out alone? Oct 06 07:21:20 they just looked that "oh yeah, the plug is missing" and started to offer me E7 Oct 06 07:21:32 mece: just the port Oct 06 07:21:45 Jartza: Yeah, I'm treating my N900 as an orphaned device now. Planning out how to use it if the keyboard fails, the USB fails (wifi + external batt charger) etc. Oct 06 07:21:54 Jartza, you're a finn? Oct 06 07:22:05 I've been using the phone still, for 3 months, after the plug came out :) Oct 06 07:22:12 because I have an external charger Oct 06 07:22:13 Jartza, cool :) Oct 06 07:22:13 mece: yes Oct 06 07:22:27 ....and of course, 2 batteries Oct 06 07:22:45 Jartza: Good move. Yeah, that lack of removable battery thing on the iPhone etc. doesn't work for me. Doesn't make sense. Oct 06 07:22:50 Jartza, radiotrimmeri in Turku fixed my n900's usb port in 3 hours. Perhaps you could try to take it to them, or some other Nokia service place that is not actually Nokia. Oct 06 07:23:16 Jartza, or at least give them a call. Oct 06 07:23:23 mece: hmm. thanks for the tip. Oct 06 07:23:32 I'm actually going to turku next week Oct 06 07:23:36 :) Oct 06 07:24:40 although it's only 100km from here to Turku, worth driving anyway if the device can be fixed Oct 06 07:25:00 ok well Radiotrimmer is here: http://www.radiotrimmeri.fi/index.phtml Oct 06 07:25:25 Jartza, give them a call and explain the situation. They fixed mine on warranty, so I guess they could fix your too. Oct 06 07:26:21 that was 18 months ago tho. Oct 06 07:26:53 how many n900's are out there? (in users' hands, not in a Nokia warehouse) Oct 06 07:28:16 kwtm, there has never been any numbers released afaik Oct 06 07:31:16 mece: I have to try that, thanks :) Oct 06 07:37:48 uhm Oct 06 07:38:05 is the voice thing "new" like the compass? :-) Oct 06 07:38:13 heh Oct 06 07:38:48 Anyone happen to have their n900 taken apart at the moment? Oct 06 07:39:06 i do but it is being mailed back to me Oct 06 07:39:09 :-) Oct 06 07:39:17 unfixed Oct 06 07:39:18 aww Oct 06 07:39:20 damnit Oct 06 07:39:27 need to buy a new one Oct 06 07:39:42 Macer, what was the problem? USB? Oct 06 07:39:45 did you ever look at the lcd screen without the backlight? Oct 06 07:39:49 fking usb port Oct 06 07:39:54 damn Oct 06 07:39:55 no. sorry Oct 06 07:40:04 never took the screen apart Oct 06 07:40:11 i was focused on the usb pirt Oct 06 07:40:14 port Oct 06 07:40:31 Macer, did it break off completely? Oct 06 07:40:37 mece: yeah, still with nokia atm Oct 06 07:40:40 i think i am just going to see if i can find a compatible charging pad if i get a new one Oct 06 07:40:45 frals :) Oct 06 07:40:49 dmj726: yes Oct 06 07:41:05 pads were good. friend of mine couldnt seem to get one on there tho Oct 06 07:41:23 charging pad? Oct 06 07:41:28 it has gotten to the point where buying a new or slightly used one will be a better option Oct 06 07:41:45 yeah. those pads you toss things on to charge things Oct 06 07:41:50 dmj726: sprry, LCD without backlight? what do you mean? Oct 06 07:42:04 hopefully i can find one that works with an n900 Oct 06 07:42:10 I'm wanting to shoot an image through an LCD Oct 06 07:42:23 maybe a flush receiver would be nice Oct 06 07:42:25 aaah Oct 06 07:42:38 The LCD I tried with makes everything behind it blurry Oct 06 07:42:38 and i will just xfer everything over wifi Oct 06 07:42:44 you might be severely out of luck Oct 06 07:42:45 :-) Oct 06 07:43:04 wondering if that's just LCDs in general or maybe it's because the LCD was matte Oct 06 07:43:38 Macer: There are universal battery chargers out there Oct 06 07:44:04 they have two little contacts that you align with your battery contacts Oct 06 07:44:19 that way you can charge the battery without an n900 Oct 06 07:45:55 DocScrutinizer: you've taken the n900 apart I believe Oct 06 07:47:28 not the screen half Oct 06 07:47:45 and *for sure* not the LCM Oct 06 07:48:21 I partially disassembled LCMs of PM FR Oct 06 07:48:28 OM FreeRunner Oct 06 07:48:59 did you ever look through the panel without the backlight? Oct 06 07:51:21 it wasn't removable on that one Oct 06 07:52:14 the light spreader and possibly diffusor are very unique on each display I guess Oct 06 07:53:12 in this LCD it's been a glued sandwitch iirc Oct 06 07:53:19 sandwich Oct 06 07:55:42 N900 is transflexive which doesn'T help I guess Oct 06 07:55:58 would that mean it's likely also glued together? Oct 06 08:05:47 or worse Oct 06 08:06:22 look at it in bright sunlight, the colors vanish (mostly) Oct 06 08:06:34 now figure how that works Oct 06 08:07:34 there are LCD sets ready made for use on a overhead projector, maybe you want to check out those Oct 06 09:26:18 It's possible to charge a n900 with the help of another n900 and usbcable surely? Oct 06 09:27:30 doubt it Oct 06 09:27:38 why not? Oct 06 09:28:40 you cannot charge a battery with another battery without tricks, at least not in a useful way Oct 06 09:29:12 I thought it would just see it as another computer Oct 06 09:29:39 You can charge it, yes, if you limit the charge rate on the other n900 to 100mA Oct 06 09:30:02 I'm talking about two n900's, usb cable, in the woods Oct 06 09:30:03 It will do this on the other n900 side, if you just enable 'boost' - and don't do anything to enable USB host Oct 06 09:32:47 plus charging @100mA rate is rather questionable an exercise - possibly it will rather discharge than charge Oct 06 09:33:18 Only if the other n900 is used Oct 06 09:33:30 Better way is to pop the battery Oct 06 09:34:46 woldrich: bottom line: it's possible (to some extent) but useless Oct 06 09:35:23 Is there a way to improve N900's talk time, I got only 4 hours talk time from Full to switch off via Skype. Oct 06 09:35:54 this sounds about max you could possibly get Oct 06 09:37:34 maybe 5..6h were possible when carefully tuning all parameters to minimize power consumption - this is a tedious job though, and not particularly simple Oct 06 09:39:24 #1: make sure your data connection doesn't use more power than needed (10/100mW and PSM for WLAN, 2G vs 3G for GPRS dta connection, best was to use USB networking probably) Oct 06 09:39:50 #2: make sure your screen is dim or off during call Oct 06 09:40:00 #3: don't use video!! Oct 06 09:41:02 #4: tweak system to adapt CPU clock etc - only for real experts (who won't touch that anyway as they know about it being useless effort/result ratio) Oct 06 09:41:10 And ensure you're in a good signal spot. Oct 06 09:42:55 yup, also on a WLAN channel (in case of WLAN connection) that doesn't have massive interference with neighbour APs causing up to 300% retransmits Oct 06 09:43:28 retransmissions? Oct 06 09:44:18 meh, data packages getting sent again up to 3 times (possibly more), due to collisions Oct 06 09:45:32 so s/good signal spot/good signal QUALITY (not strength) spot/ Oct 06 09:46:35 hm, wouldn't strength be indicative of the rx power used by the device? Oct 06 09:46:41 well, maybe not, infact Oct 06 09:47:08 but being close to the station should help that, I assume wifi has adaptive rx power like bluetooth Oct 06 09:47:37 and it's tx of course, not rx :) Oct 06 09:47:44 hm there was this application that showed wich networks are on wich channel, some other info and also had a graph over time, I gorgot the name though Oct 06 09:47:44 adaptive rx power? s/rx/tx/ I guess, and no, WLAN doesn't have that Oct 06 09:48:02 hm, on my workstation iwconfig says 'Tx-Power=15 dBm' Oct 06 09:48:24 also my n900 says tx-power 20 dBm Oct 06 09:48:29 should try to move around to see if it changes Oct 06 09:48:33 so what? Oct 06 09:48:41 it won't chage Oct 06 09:48:54 well, can one adjust it? Oct 06 09:48:56 there's no way it could know when and how to change Oct 06 09:49:02 at least there is that one low-power mode for it Oct 06 09:49:15 yes, see N900 WLAN settings advanced 10/100mW TX power Oct 06 09:51:53 on GSM the base station requests a power-factor to make the mobile equipment TX change from some few mW up to possibly 2W. Anyway that's the base station that decides how good is signal strength of signal sent by mobile, and requests and controls that accordingly. There's no such concept in 802.11 Oct 06 09:53:12 the assumption you need a strong TX when you got a poor RX signal is simply wrong Oct 06 09:54:13 (given both refer to mobile equipment's notion of TX power and RX signal) Oct 06 09:55:44 It's not quite wrong. Oct 06 09:55:48 It's usually related Oct 06 09:55:55 it's not always correct Oct 06 09:56:29 so it's useless in real life usage Oct 06 09:57:07 even more with MIMO AP Oct 06 10:03:01 merlin1991: wifi-eye ? Oct 06 10:04:01 merlin1991: rather informative but useless for powersaving if you can't control the AP ;-D Oct 06 10:04:28 yep wifi-eye was the one Oct 06 10:06:00 anyway iwconfig -> " Power Management:on Link Quality=78/100 Signal level:-44 dBm Noise level=-92 dBm " is the most interesting info you can get Oct 06 10:07:27 of course wifi-eye will show relative signal strength of the AP you're interested in vs "noise" by other APs Oct 06 10:09:05 for that those wifi-eye curve diagrams showing sidebands of spread spectrum created by modulation are really useful Oct 06 10:09:50 all thumbs up for wifi-eye Oct 06 10:11:55 * Sicelo downloads wifi-eye Oct 06 10:12:24 * SergSergiu destroy their n900 Oct 06 10:14:56 wifi-eye, DocScrutinizer approves Oct 06 10:14:58 ;) Oct 06 10:16:13 it is really nice. thanks merlin1991 Oct 06 10:17:40 damn It, apt-get upgrade nuked my harmattan scratchbox Oct 06 10:19:48 and this fsckd battery will die before I've dled the new rootstrap Oct 06 10:51:14 hmhm, does anyone know about this store? http://danafursten56.de/web/product.php?id_product=119 Oct 06 10:59:19 \o/ fixed my logitech mx-revolution :-)) Oct 06 12:06:25 hello, if I try to install cssu I get this message: "to update your device to this version of the operation system you must use Nokia PC Suite on your PC. connect the device to your pc via usb cable and launch the application." BUTTON: "create backup" in the FAQ I read that maybe I have to less disk space or I should look at the errors tab in application manager. but there is nothing like that Oct 06 12:06:46 I have latest ssu and want to install cssu package Oct 06 12:08:44 eichi: when you tap the cssu package in the update view check the details/problems tab Oct 06 12:09:30 merlin1991: oh, damn, there I did not look Oct 06 12:09:52 thanks Oct 06 12:13:24 eichi: did you get the update running? Oct 06 12:14:17 at the moment I did a backup and learning math ;) means I can tell you in some minutes Oct 06 12:14:26 I *do a backup Oct 06 12:19:54 merlin1991: it just conflicts with libqt4-test Oct 06 12:23:38 my n900 died two days ago Oct 06 12:23:39 RIP Oct 06 12:24:20 what happened? Oct 06 12:24:24 hardware? overclocked? Oct 06 12:26:12 hardware failure in general i guess Oct 06 12:26:45 it would read sim cards for like 6 months now Oct 06 12:26:54 it wouldn't* Oct 06 12:27:07 and it stopped charging now too Oct 06 12:37:53 eichi: just apt-get remove libqt4-test Oct 06 12:38:00 mc_teo: overclocked or no? Oct 06 12:38:03 you'll get it back with the update afaik Oct 06 12:38:16 merlin1991: I know, thanks :) Oct 06 12:39:12 merlin1991: biggest hope is, that rebote works after cssu installation ;) Oct 06 12:39:19 +o Oct 06 12:39:25 reboot doesn't work? oO Oct 06 12:39:37 well for me it doesn't work because I have uboot :D Oct 06 12:39:49 its updating at the moment, I said its just my hope, that it works Oct 06 12:40:20 I was assuimng reboot didn't work earlier :D Oct 06 12:40:29 s/assuimng/assuming/ Oct 06 12:40:29 merlin1991 meant: I was assuming reboot didn't work earlier :D Oct 06 12:40:49 *its rebooting at the moment* ***hope like a pope* Oct 06 12:41:17 step 1) pin code correct Oct 06 12:41:35 2) baground and panel loaded Oct 06 12:41:41 3) ????? Oct 06 12:41:45 4) profit! Oct 06 12:42:05 2.9) still waiting on widgets Oct 06 12:42:33 2.99) message: OS update sucessful Oct 06 12:42:47 3) widgets loaded ;) Oct 06 12:42:55 4) looking for profits Oct 06 12:44:20 lool, desktop rotation does not make sence if widgets are then on the same place Oct 06 12:44:32 eichi: rearrange them Oct 06 12:44:42 the desktop stores 2 widget positions Oct 06 12:45:00 by the way: why do people like to use n900 vertical? One of the best things in the UI is, that its like widescreen style. I love this Oct 06 12:45:17 just wondering if it's possible to have separate wallpapers for portrait mode? Oct 06 12:45:22 I mean Oct 06 12:45:25 yet? Oct 06 12:45:33 well I use it vertical when I'm like in public transport and just use mediaplyer / twitter / some other thing to pass the time Oct 06 12:45:56 well I use vertical when I'm too lazy to use both hands. Oct 06 12:46:07 and when browsing in opera. Oct 06 12:46:08 CodenameStrike-N: I think arcean over in #maemo-ssu had some expermiental code ready to try Oct 06 12:46:19 oh? Oct 06 12:46:20 nice Oct 06 12:46:25 should consider Oct 06 12:47:09 my vkb is overridden by my JP input though Oct 06 12:47:14 by SCIM that is Oct 06 12:47:36 so I only type vertically when in Opera Oct 06 12:47:46 edheldil: no, not overclocked Oct 06 12:48:06 used it as a portable python interpreter Oct 06 12:48:38 very nice: scrolling desktops works much faster now!! Oct 06 12:49:09 whoops Oct 06 12:49:28 xchat internal error. Oct 06 12:49:35 nice Oct 06 12:49:57 was trying to say that to mc_teo. Oct 06 12:50:22 about him using his as a portable python interpreter. Oct 06 12:51:16 pretty much everyone here uses treats their N900 as their mini-PCs don't they Oct 06 12:51:51 nope I use it as phone then irc client then twitter client Oct 06 12:51:54 this device was like a dream come true I had years ago when I was like... 11 Oct 06 12:51:58 and I browse from time to time :D Oct 06 12:51:58 haha Oct 06 12:52:20 well pretty much like what I do Oct 06 12:52:33 and sometimes I go berserk and fire up hen plug in an external hd and feed movies to my tv Oct 06 12:52:33 plus a lil bit of drawing sometimes Oct 06 12:52:34 mine doesnt read sim cards though Oct 06 12:52:41 so i could use it as a phone if i wanted to Oct 06 12:52:51 whoa Oct 06 12:53:21 I just reflashed yesterday then found out I wasn't reflashing the newest PR Oct 06 12:53:32 me: phone, organizer, do online stuff, listen music with uwk transmitter in bath ;D Oct 06 12:53:38 which led to my sim card not detected Oct 06 13:02:05 hello peeps , im trying to update xterminal but it keeps trying to install NMAP beta can i block it some how Oct 06 13:03:46 update from what to what? Oct 06 13:07:51 some files for metasploit need updating , but it always updates nmap which stops yamas from working Oct 06 13:11:50 cssu tuner or cssu features configuration? Oct 06 13:11:59 which is more updated? Oct 06 13:57:33 eichi: no idea... look for features you need not for how recent they are Oct 06 14:46:59 hello world Oct 06 14:47:15 anyone here remember the process they went through to get permanent residence in finland? :) Oct 06 14:47:27 birth Oct 06 14:47:41 can't remember how i did it Oct 06 14:48:08 for my purposes, citizenship is not compatible w/ permanent residence :) Oct 06 14:52:11 Traditionally, you invade, and take over the government, and declare yourself king. Oct 06 14:58:40 SpeedEvil: or Czar :) Oct 06 14:58:52 but that doesn't make one a permanent resident either :) Oct 06 15:00:54 timeless, why don't you check http://www.migri.fi/netcomm/?language=EN Oct 06 15:01:36 momcilo: does that have a way to look for the date of issue for a permanent residence stamp? Oct 06 15:02:49 timeless: for me it was a trip to the maistraati, show them my EU passport, done. antother thing was the eu residence permit, that was the police office, fill out a form, pay 45EUR, done Oct 06 15:02:54 timeless, I don't know you have to read it yourself, but that is the most logical place find such information, the other is embassy Oct 06 15:03:33 dm8tbr: if you wanted to find out the date your stamp was issued, how would you? Oct 06 15:04:38 uh, stamp? Oct 06 15:04:47 timeless, you already got the resident permit? Oct 06 15:05:01 momcilo: too long ago to remember when Oct 06 15:05:07 * dm8tbr never got a stamp Oct 06 15:05:10 the problem is that my current country of residence is anal Oct 06 15:05:30 * dm8tbr only has the original application form $somewhere(tm) Oct 06 15:05:59 and wants to know my dates and statuses Oct 06 15:06:19 I see Oct 06 15:06:27 dm8tbr: presumably that means you were an EU citizen Oct 06 15:06:36 timeless: you could ask the office where you registered. dunno what sort of proof they'll want for identity. Oct 06 15:06:55 timeless: yes, both my citizenships are for EU countries Oct 06 15:06:59 well, i have a stamp, presumably the stamp's id could be looked up Oct 06 15:07:10 ah, I see Oct 06 15:07:22 it's kinda silly, the 1 and 3 year visa's have dates of issue/expiry on them Oct 06 15:07:30 the permanent residence one doesn't seem to have any dates Oct 06 15:07:35 it's permanent, so that kinda makes sense Oct 06 15:07:44 unless of course, one needs to be able to answer this stupid question! Oct 06 15:09:09 dm8tbr: so, in short, you wouldn't have any good way of answering the question either Oct 06 15:09:26 that makes me feel better, although it isn't particularly helpful (not your fault, i didn't expect a good answer from anyone) Oct 06 15:11:33 :) Oct 06 15:12:22 you could either ask the issuing authority or your local finnish consulate for help Oct 06 15:17:31 ooh, this should be fun Oct 06 15:17:33 http://www.finland.ca/public/default.aspx?nodeid=41225&contentlan=2&culture=en-US Oct 06 15:18:48 http://www.finland.ca/public/default.aspx?nodeid=36030&contentlan=2&culture=en-US doesn't look promising Oct 06 15:19:29 they charge 20eur for certain services that might be similar but probably don't cover my need Oct 06 15:20:00 ooh, fun Oct 06 15:20:01 http://formin.finland.fi/public/default.aspx?nodeid=36584&contentlan=2&culture=en-US Oct 06 15:20:14 try clicking on "Local register offices " on that page Oct 06 15:22:20 contrast that with: http://formin.finland.fi/public/default.aspx?nodeid=36584&contentlan=0&culture=fi-FI Oct 06 15:22:29 * timeless thinks that's the same page more or less in Finnish Oct 06 15:22:47 oh, in case you were wondering, the &culture= bit doesn't seem to actually do something useful Oct 06 15:22:52 it's the contentlan=0 that's exciting :) Oct 06 15:23:29 oh, and the lans are 1(fi), 2(en), 3(sv) Oct 06 15:23:48 :) Oct 06 15:24:00 http://formin.finland.fi/public/default.aspx?nodeid=36584&contentlan=3 Oct 06 15:24:08 the link for swedish speakers also doesn't work Oct 06 15:24:14 anyone here a Swedish Speaking Finn? Oct 06 15:24:33 could you please complain to the people who own that page, asserting your Right to Equal Service Oct 06 15:24:34 :) Oct 06 15:25:37 actually, i should give them some credit, there's a box on the right "This document" which lets you switch languages Oct 06 15:25:53 sadly, there was no way i was going to recognize *that* as the way to switch languages... Oct 06 15:26:04 (it's a good place to hide a useful feature) Oct 06 15:26:30 * RST38h wonders what is wrong with English Oct 06 15:26:43 Doesn't timeless speak and read English? Oct 06 15:26:47 RST38h: the link is 404 Oct 06 15:26:50 try clicking it! Oct 06 15:26:57 (you can try Swedish if you prefer..) Oct 06 15:26:59 > Content administrator Passport and Visa Unit Updated 9/8/2011 Oct 06 15:27:06 > © Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland 2006 | About this site | Web Communications Unit Oct 06 15:27:11 right.. Oct 06 15:27:34 > Päivitetty 8.9.2011 Oct 06 15:27:40 > © Ulkoasiainministeriö 2006 | Tietoa verkkopalvelusta | Verkkoviestintäryhmä Oct 06 15:27:45 well, at least they're consistent :) Oct 06 15:27:50 hm, I clicked on "In English" and got a page Oct 06 15:27:57 It is not the same page, but SOME page in English Oct 06 15:27:58 RST38h: yes Oct 06 15:28:03 [11:17] try clicking on "Local register offices " on that page Oct 06 15:28:25 Ok, I have found this page in English Oct 06 15:28:29