**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 19 02:59:57 2011
Oct 19 03:20:59 <DocScrutinizer> indeed
Oct 19 06:51:24 <doc|home> anyone know how to unset the device lock pin so you can set a new one? Phone's not locked.
Oct 19 06:51:34 <doc|home> or what the default one is?
Oct 19 06:52:11 <doc|home> nm, got it
Oct 19 07:00:35 <woldrich> In what situations do you get to see and 'use' your lockscreen? I've played around with qtlockscreen, but how do I lock the device in such a way that I can see and make use of the lockscreen? Whenever I touches the display or whatever I come back to the desktop. Isn't this controlled with the device lock settings in the settings manager?
Oct 19 07:03:46 <woldrich> if I set the lock screen delay to 5 minutes, after 5 minutes a dialog thing pops up where it wants me to enter the lock password. Do I have to enter a password for *entering* lock mode?
Oct 19 07:05:26 <ruskie> no
Oct 19 07:05:31 <ruskie> it's for unlocking it
Oct 19 07:05:46 <woldrich> but... I never get to see it!
Oct 19 07:07:03 <woldrich> I want to show the lockscreen all the time when I have it connected to the computer. The screen is always on, but I still never get to see the lockscreen
Oct 19 07:09:23 <ruskie> erm
Oct 19 07:09:30 <ruskie> there is a standby screen and a lock screen
Oct 19 07:09:39 <ruskie> the lock screen would be the stuff with the keypad on it
Oct 19 07:09:45 <woldrich> keypad?
Oct 19 07:09:46 <ruskie> standby screen has the slide to unlock stuff and time
Oct 19 07:10:09 <woldrich> http://i.japh.se/n900/screenshot_1318921466.png <--- this
Oct 19 07:10:24 <ruskie> yeah that would be the standby screen
Oct 19 07:10:43 <ruskie> I'm assuming you want to see that one
Oct 19 07:10:48 <woldrich> yes, please.
Oct 19 07:11:20 <ruskie> not sure it is possible
Oct 19 07:11:30 <woldrich> what
Oct 19 07:11:45 <woldrich> grr, what use is these things if I can't see it?
Oct 19 07:32:34 <edheldil> woldrich:  the standby screen is displayed when you double press the OFF button
Oct 19 07:33:06 <woldrich> aaaah! there.
Oct 19 07:33:28 <woldrich> so there's no way I can make it always visible while it's charging?
Oct 19 07:33:57 <edheldil> but since I have installed QtLockscreen, I started to use the slider, hence I don't see it at all
Oct 19 07:34:06 <woldrich> slider?
Oct 19 07:34:32 <edheldil> the Nokia's logic behind slider/button completely eludes me
Oct 19 07:34:58 <edheldil> there's a slider on the right side of the phone, above the audio connector
Oct 19 07:35:04 <woldrich> ah. that thing
Oct 19 07:35:18 <ruskie> hehe
Oct 19 07:37:19 <edheldil> why bother with standbyscreen if there's a hw button bypassing it? Braindead
Oct 19 07:49:37 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/19/ballmer_disses_android_complex/ <-- erm... yes... suuuure
Oct 19 07:59:24 <RST38h> Meanwhile: Certain underground hacking forums are acting as training academies and tech-support networks for cybercriminals as well as creating a marketplace for a vast array of cybercrime tools, say researchers!
Oct 19 07:59:29 <RST38h> OMG
Oct 19 11:36:09 <jacks_lt> Is it possible to use apt pinning with maemo on n900?
Oct 19 11:36:47 <arnet> jacks_lt: I wouldn't do that :)
Oct 19 11:36:57 <arnet> I have a huge experience of bricking my device so far :)
Oct 19 11:38:32 <jacks_lt> hmm ok
Oct 19 11:38:53 <jacks_lt> is there another way to install a typical version number, in this case power kernel 47?
Oct 19 11:41:23 <jacks_lt> arnet: ^
Oct 19 11:44:04 <arnet> jacks_lt: Hmm, you know, after thinking a little more, may be pinning on maemo is not the same as pinning on Debian, because we don't have Sid here...
Oct 19 11:44:38 <arnet> You may mix only stable/testing
Oct 19 11:44:47 <arnet> And it should be safe
Oct 19 11:44:58 <jacks_lt> http://yoush.homelinux.org:8079/tech/etcaptpreferences-on-n900
Oct 19 11:45:29 <jacks_lt> anyway, I like to install pk 47
Oct 19 11:45:47 <arnet> and on maemo4 I was installing specific kernel version just with dpkg
Oct 19 11:46:13 <jacks_lt> you downloaded a deb?
Oct 19 11:46:25 <jacks_lt> or can you use dpkg with repos
Oct 19 11:46:50 <arnet> No, I have downloaded a deb manually
Oct 19 11:46:56 <jacks_lt> k
Oct 19 11:46:56 <arnet> I see (the link)
Oct 19 11:47:40 <arnet> And I remember that apt-get upgrade with extras-devel bricked device.
Oct 19 11:47:44 <edheldil> you can do apt-get install package=version
Oct 19 11:48:00 <jacks_lt> hmm
Oct 19 11:48:29 <arnet> But just installing is safe most of the time.
Oct 19 12:11:11 <jacks_lt> DocScrutinizer: thankx a lot, works like a charm!
Oct 19 12:11:23 <jacks_lt> with new ff adapter
Oct 19 12:11:30 <jacks_lt> :)
Oct 19 12:11:41 <DocScrutinizer> phooooh, I'm glad to hear that :-D
Oct 19 12:12:35 <jacks_lt> it automatically detected my keybd and even my trackpoint is working!
Oct 19 12:12:46 <jacks_lt> it took a while, but very happy now!
Oct 19 12:13:11 <jacks_lt> great
Oct 19 12:13:39 <jacks_lt> an external hub just makes sure the keybd is not sucking the battery of the n900 too much, right?
Oct 19 12:13:49 <DocScrutinizer> right
Oct 19 12:14:10 * jacks_lt using pk 47 btw
Oct 19 12:14:11 <DocScrutinizer> see ~powered-hostmode though
Oct 19 12:14:33 <DocScrutinizer> ~powered-hostmode
Oct 19 12:14:39 <DocScrutinizer> umm
Oct 19 12:14:43 <DocScrutinizer> ~h-e-n
Oct 19 12:14:43 <infobot> it has been said that hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode-charging
Oct 19 12:14:54 <DocScrutinizer> ~hostmode-charging
Oct 19 12:14:55 <infobot> hostmode-powered is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203
Oct 19 12:17:19 <jacks_lt> pk 47 doesn´t seem to have the save problem with gnumeric
Oct 19 12:22:21 <Sicelo> \0/ jacks_lt 
Oct 19 12:27:59 <jacks_lt> DocScrutinizer I have this external hub http://www.sweex.com/nl/assortiment/connectivity/usb-firewire-hubs/US014/
Oct 19 12:28:11 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, yes. And?
Oct 19 12:29:32 <jacks_lt> any typical way to use that thing properly?
Oct 19 12:29:53 <jacks_lt> without nuking my n900?
Oct 19 12:29:56 <DocScrutinizer> nope, absolutely standard
Oct 19 12:32:12 <DocScrutinizer> just keep in mind you don't want to plug in the N900 to one of the downstream ports when you want to do hostmode
Oct 19 12:33:05 <DocScrutinizer> not that this might nuke the device. It just caused a number of users complaining about "hub not working with h-e-n"
Oct 19 12:33:48 <Sicelo> for kernel downgrade, which is best: 1) to revert to stock, then install what i want, or 2) just apt-get install <kernel> :?
Oct 19 12:34:17 * DocScrutinizer fails to see any potential problems in 2)
Oct 19 12:34:51 <Sicelo> ah, thanks :)
Oct 19 12:35:04 <Sicelo> of course, i'll use BM first
Oct 19 12:35:06 <DocScrutinizer> as long as apt-get will fetch the kernel verson you want
Oct 19 12:36:17 <DocScrutinizer> also installing kernel via apt-get is a tad tricky I heard, as yu need to install kernel, kernel-flasher and kernel-modules in the right sequence
Oct 19 12:36:58 <DocScrutinizer> indtalling via HAM takes care about that, but probably won't allow to downgrade
Oct 19 12:37:08 <Sicelo> yeah, i noticed on the PK thread. but wasn't that for installing via debs?
Oct 19 12:37:48 <DocScrutinizer> umm, sorry. It's just too long ago I last time dealt with this, can't recall exactly
Oct 19 12:38:22 <DocScrutinizer> probably you're right, this was about dpkg -i, not about apt-get install
Oct 19 12:38:52 <DocScrutinizer> time for 12648430   ☕ 
Oct 19 12:39:06 <Sicelo> :)
Oct 19 12:40:25 <DocScrutinizer> jacks_lt: you may check if your USB hub is one of the really "cheap broken-by-design" ones that provides 5V on upstream port
Oct 19 12:40:29 <DocScrutinizer> cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_usb/vbus
Oct 19 12:41:02 <DocScrutinizer> 1 == hub delivers 5V (only if booston not yet started ;-D )
Oct 19 12:41:37 <DocScrutinizer> which would mean you could use the hub instead of a Y-cable as in ~hostmode-powered
Oct 19 12:42:34 * Sicelo has failed so far to charge while on h-e-n ... getting 'Shutting down USB.. NO reason'
Oct 19 12:42:46 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Oct 19 12:43:47 <Sicelo> yeah, i am still going to try other setups though. but, Y-cable method works perfectly, even better than plain h-e-n
Oct 19 12:43:50 <DocScrutinizer> err, sure. Stopping booston will "throw that error" - this doesn't mean hostmode got stopped
Oct 19 12:43:50 <Sicelo> :)
Oct 19 12:44:10 <Sicelo> :/ oh
Oct 19 12:44:32 <Sicelo> i have been disconnecting soon as i got that, lol, dumb me
Oct 19 12:45:19 <DocScrutinizer> it just informs you about N900 stopping to provide 5V by itself, which is pretty much exactly what you want it to do, for charging hostmode
Oct 19 12:46:40 <Sicelo> thanks for the info. it makes sense :)
Oct 19 12:48:49 <Sicelo> btw, if i wish to use h-e-n without gui, which scripts should i run, and in what sequence?
Oct 19 12:50:36 <DocScrutinizer> umm, there's no script to run for that yet. You just need to do on cmdline what h-e-n GUI does when you hit the several buttons
Oct 19 12:50:36 <jacks_lt> DocScrutinizer with hen started I get 1 otherwise 0
Oct 19 12:51:17 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, with h-e-n started you see the 1 which means your booston script made N900 apply 5V to USB
Oct 19 12:51:52 <jacks_lt> so this thing is not broken by design?
Oct 19 12:52:48 <Sicelo> yeah DocScrutinizer. that's what i meant.. the cmdline stuff. is it somewhere on tmo?
Oct 19 12:53:09 <DocScrutinizer> jacks_lt: seems it isn't, yep
Oct 19 12:53:15 <jacks_lt> ok
Oct 19 12:53:29 <jacks_lt> how to disconnect a peripheral like my keybd?
Oct 19 12:53:48 <DocScrutinizer> and it won't allow you to charge while hostmode, without using an additional Y-cable
Oct 19 12:54:01 <DocScrutinizer> errr, just unplug
Oct 19 12:54:07 <jacks_lt> Y-cable hmm
Oct 19 12:54:48 <DocScrutinizer> errr, I guess it's on h-e-n garage homepage
Oct 19 12:55:15 <DocScrutinizer> I have to confess I don't exactly recall all the stepps off top of my head
Oct 19 12:55:36 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: ^^^
Oct 19 12:56:44 <jacks_lt> what sucks more battery, a bluetooth keybd or usb?
Oct 19 12:57:38 <DocScrutinizer> something like "echo host-f >/sys/*/*/mode" for selecting hostmode and speed, then start booston, then "echo F > <somewhere>" for starting enum
Oct 19 12:57:51 <DocScrutinizer> jacks_lt: clearly USB
Oct 19 12:58:03 <DocScrutinizer> by a number of magnitudes
Oct 19 13:01:06 <jacks_lt> is that much? :)
Oct 19 13:02:27 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Oct 19 13:03:52 <DocScrutinizer> USB, even in best case, will draw way more constantly all the time than BT might draw for peaks occasionally
Oct 19 13:05:46 <DocScrutinizer> hostmode alone makes OMAP3430 draw quite a lot of power for the not-so-power-optimized mentorgraphics musb-hdrc USB controller inside the SoC, even while no USB peripheral at all attached
Oct 19 13:16:26 <Sicelo> thanks. /me checks garage. thanks a lot
Oct 19 13:47:51 <jacks_lt> thx bbl
Oct 19 14:41:02 <vadimq> Hi :-) I'm considering the N9. Is it good? And is it as open as the N900?
Oct 19 14:44:12 <mgedmin> the N9 is excellent
Oct 19 14:44:36 <mgedmin> I'm not sure how to compare openness
Oct 19 14:44:52 <mgedmin> are you interested in the availability of source code?  or your ability to control the device?
Oct 19 14:45:11 <mgedmin> the N9 has aegis, which forbids the root user from doing all sorts of stuff, like, oh, _writing shell scripts_
Oct 19 14:45:50 <vadimq> hrm, that sounds like a problem. Can it be disabled?
Oct 19 14:46:14 <mgedmin> in theory
Oct 19 14:46:41 <mgedmin> ask in #harmattan about aegis
Oct 19 14:46:47 <mgedmin> or on the forums
Oct 19 14:47:17 <mgedmin> I haven't bothered; the shell script problem can be worked around by creating aliases foo = 'sh /home/user/foo'
Oct 19 14:48:08 <vadimq> what about stuff like loading custom kernel modules?
Oct 19 14:48:38 <mgedmin> dunno, haven't tried
Oct 19 14:49:28 <mgedmin> if you want to know more about aegis (and disabling it), this thread is on topic: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575
Oct 19 14:54:51 <mgedmin> developers from nokia claim that you're allowed to flash your own kernel and do whatever you want
Oct 19 14:55:08 <mgedmin> and I think there are people who have done that
Oct 19 14:58:37 <mece> ...but you loose warranty by doing it.
Oct 19 14:58:40 <mece> lose
Oct 19 14:58:41 <vadimq> Hmm, going to wait to have a confirmation of that
Oct 19 14:59:30 <mgedmin> so far there wasn't anything I wanted to do that aegis would prevent me from doing
Oct 19 15:00:01 <mgedmin> if you enable developer mode, you get xterm, openssh (server + client), and you're free to install unsigned .debs from anywhere
Oct 19 15:07:58 <vadimq> mece: I don't really have use for it if I can't mess with it properly. Also I'm not convinced the "warranty void" is going to fly in the EU, at least for something unrelated to the software
Oct 19 15:11:21 <mece> vadimq, well I suggest you read the thread mentioned >> mgedmin: if you want to know more about aegis (and disabling it), this thread is on topic: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575
Oct 19 15:11:59 <vadimq> reading it, yeah
Oct 19 15:22:33 <DocScrutinizer> (<mece> ...but you loose warranty by doing it) not only warranty but also quite an arm and a leg of harmattan functions
Oct 19 15:22:58 <mece> DocScrutinizer, mm
Oct 19 15:23:48 <DocScrutinizer> and no, there's definitely no way to load custom kernel modules to the "normal" harmattan installation
Oct 19 15:24:37 <vadimq> DocScrutinizer: which functions?
Oct 19 15:24:45 <DocScrutinizer> unless you exploit holes in aegis policy, see javispedro's aegis-disabler
Oct 19 15:25:04 <mece> DocScrutinizer, well we don't know if that works in the new firmware yet...
Oct 19 15:25:06 <DocScrutinizer> vadimq: certs, accounts, all that "security" stuff
Oct 19 15:26:25 <DocScrutinizer> it shows up in corners where you'd maybe never would've thought you'll run into it
Oct 19 15:26:35 <vadimq> DocScrutinizer: what certs and accounts?
Oct 19 15:26:57 <DocScrutinizer> all the accounts that are managed by aegis: 
Oct 19 15:27:26 <DocScrutinizer> mail, nokia, IM, whatnot. I dunno as it annoys me too much to test it
Oct 19 15:27:43 <DocScrutinizer> messages
Oct 19 15:33:27 <Arkenoi> DocScrutinizer, wow, there is aegis-disabler already? where is it?
Oct 19 15:34:52 <DocScrutinizer> no, not really. Javispedro published a way to neuter aegis in beta1, and there's a 'custom' kernel that causes openmode, and allows to hack the kernel to neuter aegis again, on beta2
Oct 19 15:35:19 <Corsac> it'd have been nice to have a real summary of what aegis is and is not, what it prevents you (and malwares) to do, instead of all the FUD there is right now
Oct 19 15:35:40 <DocScrutinizer> *sigh*
Oct 19 15:36:02 <Arkenoi> what it does not is it does not want to go away peacefully
Oct 19 15:36:02 <DocScrutinizer> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575&page=10
Oct 19 15:36:35 <DocScrutinizer> not only page10 but whole thread, plus the links in there
Oct 19 15:38:17 <vadimq> I don't get what's the point of all this stuff anyway, since it seems like it's a deadend of a platform, on a very rare phone. Not like the commercial developers are going to show up en masse
Oct 19 15:38:32 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/Activities_blocked_by_the_N9_and_N950_security_policy
Oct 19 15:39:14 <DocScrutinizer> vadimq: tell that to the Nokia product managers
Oct 19 15:42:33 <Corsac> vadimq: a security systems can still be useful. I can understand it can be frustrating (and maybe I couldn't stand it either, I didn't have a chance to test it myself) but some of the stuff it prevents you to do, it'll prevent bad people/apps as well. As I understand it's really not perfect but I'm glad some people think about that
Oct 19 15:43:13 <Corsac> (now since it's likely to be the last OS in the serie, I guess not doing it perfect means it could have been completely dropped since there won't be ameliorations)
Oct 19 15:43:48 <Corsac> and maybe Maemo platform is not popular enough to be a real target either
Oct 19 15:43:51 <Arkenoi> Corsac, you are totally wrong. there is a way to prevent bad people from doing things legitimate phone owner still can do
Oct 19 15:43:59 <Arkenoi> actually a number of ways
Oct 19 15:44:11 <Arkenoi> restricting owners right on the device should not be tolerated
Oct 19 15:44:16 <Arkenoi> it is abomination
Oct 19 15:44:35 <Corsac> …
Oct 19 15:45:24 <Arkenoi> and all excuses to do those truly evil things are just silly
Oct 19 15:45:42 <Corsac> I can understand your frustration, but such hard word won't really help at making you sensible
Oct 19 15:46:10 <DocScrutinizer> it's just true
Oct 19 15:46:25 <ruskie> digital restrictions managament != security
Oct 19 15:46:51 <Corsac> sure, but aegis is not only about drm, I think you really missed that
Oct 19 15:47:05 <Corsac> and maybe it's not only your fault
Oct 19 15:47:43 <ruskie> it is only that
Oct 19 15:47:56 <ruskie> it doesn't prevent bad people/apps anything
Oct 19 15:48:09 <DocScrutinizer> and aplogetic word about aegis implementation/concept won't help make it any more of a working concept. There's no way to restrict capabilities for *all* apps to avoid *one* rogue app doing nasty. Would you want to forbid sending SMS for all apps, access to your contacts for all apps?
Oct 19 15:48:37 <Arkenoi> Corsac, there *may* be some point in aegis (though given Harmattan "popularity" it is more a research project than anything truly useful anyway) but there can never be any point in revoking user control on it
Oct 19 15:49:11 <DocScrutinizer> what aegis is missing is a way ala andridiot where *user* can decide on a per-app basis what's allowed and what'S not allowed
Oct 19 15:49:38 <Corsac> hmhm, can android do that?
Oct 19 15:49:46 <Corsac> I though you could accept/deny app install, but that's all
Oct 19 15:49:54 <DocScrutinizer> you can not forbit *all* potentially dangerous functions for *all* apps
Oct 19 15:50:01 <DocScrutinizer> forbid*
Oct 19 15:50:14 <Corsac> can every app handle the fact that some permission it needs aren't given on some device?
Oct 19 15:50:28 <DocScrutinizer> no
Oct 19 15:50:48 <SpeedEvil> Aegis - with proper credential review and granularity of credentials would be a great plus.
Oct 19 15:50:49 <DocScrutinizer> there's no such thing as a per-device policy
Oct 19 15:51:12 <ruskie> a MAC setup could work if done properly
Oct 19 15:51:17 <Corsac> DocScrutinizer: I meant, on one user device, if he deny some permission, can the app handle that?
Oct 19 15:51:29 <SpeedEvil> If an app requests SMS capability, and there isn't any mention of SMS in the description - it's malware.
Oct 19 15:51:30 <ruskie> but that would require the user to have control
Oct 19 15:51:36 <Arkenoi> SpeedEvil, for ovi store, yes. and should be either completely disabled or user-controlled for everything else
Oct 19 15:51:37 <DocScrutinizer> there's no "he deny"
Oct 19 15:51:58 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: Not only ovi store, it could be very useful for a community repository
Oct 19 15:51:59 <Arkenoi> because nokia may have some responsibility for things that come from ovi store but definitely nothing else
Oct 19 15:52:05 <ruskie> and of course MAC should not be possible to bypass with "internal" apps
Oct 19 15:52:20 <Corsac> DocScrutinizer: so how can an user decide on a per-app basis what's allowed and what's not?
Oct 19 15:52:27 <Arkenoi> SpeedEvil, (or any other repository that has proper review and QA)
Oct 19 15:52:29 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: It makes it _lots_ easier to QA for nasty stuff, as you don't need to inspect source, just credentials.
Oct 19 15:52:39 <DocScrutinizer> Corsac: he can't on harmattan/aegis
Oct 19 15:52:46 <Corsac> DocScrutinizer: I mean on android
Oct 19 15:53:38 <DocScrutinizer> on andridiot user can review what the app requests for permissions and can decide to accept or deny
Oct 19 15:53:42 <DocScrutinizer> afaik
Oct 19 15:53:49 <DocScrutinizer> never looked into andridiot
Oct 19 15:54:31 <DocScrutinizer> on HARM anyway OVI store decides that for you, on that subset of permissions that is available over OVI at all
Oct 19 15:54:51 <Corsac> DocScrutinizer: ok, so, again, on android you can review what permissions an ask want, and you can accept/deny installation, that's all
Oct 19 15:54:55 <DocScrutinizer> which is all but a comprehensive set of permissions
Oct 19 15:54:59 <Corsac> you can't allow by permission
Oct 19 15:55:23 <DocScrutinizer> dunno, it doesn't really matter - for HARM
Oct 19 15:55:37 <DocScrutinizer> as aegis can't do any of that
Oct 19 15:56:23 <Corsac> you mean you can't review permissions requested by an app?
Oct 19 15:56:27 <DocScrutinizer> on OVI the QA decides if *you* should be able to get a SMS-sending app or not
Oct 19 15:57:27 <DocScrutinizer> no, there's no official way for user to review permissions of an app
Oct 19 15:58:10 <Corsac> afair the manifest is shipped in the deb package so it should be possible to check/display them at install time. Maybe that deserves a bug on HAM
Oct 19 15:58:22 <Corsac> well, I guess it's not HAM anymore
Oct 19 15:59:02 <DocScrutinizer> there's no such thing like HAM
Oct 19 15:59:15 <DocScrutinizer> there's only OVI store, basically
Oct 19 16:00:31 <DocScrutinizer> and no way for you to ship an app that needs any permissions without it going thru OVI, or getting any permissions that are not available on OVI (that's a friggin lot still)
Oct 19 16:01:18 <DocScrutinizer> and once OVI is down for whatever reason - temporarily or discontinued - your N9 is basically a brick
Oct 19 16:01:27 <ruskie> yay
Oct 19 16:01:54 <Corsac> why so?
Oct 19 16:02:38 <Corsac> ovi store down wont prevent the device to work, it will prevent you installing new apps, right?
Oct 19 16:02:41 <DocScrutinizer> as none of the app providers could opt to ship updates via alternative path
Oct 19 16:02:58 <DocScrutinizer> yes, basically
Oct 19 16:03:58 <DocScrutinizer> not only new apps, also updates for existing apps
Oct 19 16:04:24 <DocScrutinizer> but that's just a nice detail on the periphery
Oct 19 16:04:53 <DocScrutinizer> the main crux is aegis prevents any real system administration
Oct 19 16:05:12 <DocScrutinizer> you're not owner of your own device anymore
Oct 19 16:06:13 <DocScrutinizer> well, not owner of the OS called harmattan. Sure meanwhile you can install alternative OS, like meegoCE. But you can't administrate your own device with stock OS aka harmattan
Oct 19 16:06:35 <ErwinJunge> DocScrutinizer: You should write a program to count how many words you spend talking about aegis on IRC, should be quite a lot by now :)
Oct 19 16:06:55 <DocScrutinizer> you got no idea ;-D
Oct 19 16:07:38 <DocScrutinizer> but I guess my words about OC are still >> words on aegis
Oct 19 16:09:21 <ErwinJunge> Aren't your words about OC just a link to the same presentation slide every single time? ;)
Oct 19 16:09:42 <vadimq> What's OC?
Oct 19 16:09:44 <DocScrutinizer> pfff, citation needed
Oct 19 16:10:00 <DocScrutinizer> ~opap-oc
Oct 19 16:10:04 <DocScrutinizer> ~omap-oc
Oct 19 16:10:04 <infobot> somebody said omap-oc was http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05  read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11
Oct 19 16:10:27 <DocScrutinizer> ~oc
Oct 19 16:10:28 <infobot> somebody said oc was an Optical Carrier, An OC1 has 672 channels or 44.736 Mbit/s
Oct 19 16:10:32 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Oct 19 16:10:41 <DocScrutinizer> OvrClocking the CPU
Oct 19 16:12:31 <vadimq> I agree with DocScrutinizer here. It's quite unfortunate that it doesn't seem to get much better anywhere else. I looked a bit at Android, but the more I look at it, the less I like it
Oct 19 16:12:40 <vadimq> hopefully somebody will rip all that nonsense out
Oct 19 16:20:42 <vadimq> does meegoCE make phone calls and have maps?
Oct 19 16:21:36 <wmarone__> calls yes, maps not inherently
Oct 19 16:21:37 <DocScrutinizer> ErwinJunge: if you're interested in a bit more elaborate rant about OC than just "a ever-same link to a slide" you may like this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79018
Oct 19 16:23:43 <vadimq> wmarone__: I mean, I don't care if it's the Nokia sort or not, so long it's something usable. I don't particularly like the maps app on the N900
Oct 19 16:24:36 <mgedmin> the maps app on the n9 is much better
Oct 19 16:24:44 <mgedmin> and the drive app on the n9 is excellent
Oct 19 16:25:09 <mgedmin> the only irritating things about them are slow startup time and the requirement to have an Ovi account
Oct 19 16:26:25 <vadimq> any good third party ones?
Oct 19 16:26:34 <mgedmin> haven't looked
Oct 19 16:26:41 <mgedmin> I loved maep on the n900
Oct 19 16:26:59 <mgedmin> 3rd party apps on the n9 are a bit scarce for now
Oct 19 16:27:53 <DocScrutinizer> (requirement to have an Ovi account) which again makes it questionable if and how long the apps will function on a system that's aegis-neutered
Oct 19 16:28:01 <vadimq> If I get this thing, I'll probably remove the aegis thing soon enough, and the discussion above seems to imply most Nokia stuff will stop working. So I guess I'll have to install something else, or figure out a way to denokify the phone
Oct 19 16:30:02 <vadimq> At first I pondered removing all the Google stuff from Android, but that doesn't seem practical. And their userland looks very annoying too
Oct 19 16:31:18 * mgedmin wants to know what vadimq would be trying to remove from an OpenMoko phone :)
Oct 19 16:31:53 <vadimq> probably nothing, but last I heard it wasn't very usable, or I'd definitely have one
Oct 19 16:32:21 <DocScrutinizer> well, I for one am using a N900
Oct 19 16:32:41 <DocScrutinizer> not one of the ~12 OM devices in my shelf
Oct 19 16:33:42 <vadimq> Yeah, I was pondering to get an OpenMoko one anyway, when I heard about the N900 and that looked just awesome. And still is, except for the lack of RAM and the "stale NFS handle" stuff
Oct 19 16:40:20 <DocScrutinizer> stale NFS handle? are you using mass storage mode frequently?
Oct 19 16:42:54 <vadimq> DocScrutinizer: not very. And it happens on the /home FS, which isn't what gets mounted
Oct 19 16:43:13 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Oct 19 16:43:17 <DocScrutinizer> strange
Oct 19 16:43:30 <vadimq> it seems like the cause is removing the battery while on, or letting it run out of battery
Oct 19 16:43:44 <woldrich> skimmed through your discussion, so the n9 is as useless as it looks?
Oct 19 16:44:31 <vadimq> maybe I have a battery calibration issue and it doesn't shut down gracefully. The way I understand it, the mmc storage doesn't cooperate with the filesystem's attempt to maintain consistency
Oct 19 16:44:31 <woldrich> what's that ovi crap. no one is or wants to use it
Oct 19 16:45:02 <vadimq> I have no clue, I don't have a single package from ovi on my n900
Oct 19 16:45:10 <woldrich> me neither.
Oct 19 16:46:40 <woldrich> I want another n900, with more ram, a bit faster, and a saner keyboard layout, and then it'd be awesome
Oct 19 16:48:05 <vadimq> that's the n950 I think, but it doesn't seem to be on sale
Oct 19 16:49:20 <vadimq> BBL
Oct 19 16:49:47 <woldrich> :(
Oct 19 17:48:27 <hakkattakk> hi! Is it possible to sync this in calendar? http://crille.org/schema.php?klass=TGNIT-H10-
Oct 19 17:48:42 <hakkattakk> I can´t find a way to do it
Oct 19 17:50:12 <hakkattakk> I have a n900
Oct 19 17:59:24 <hakkattakk> nvm
Oct 19 18:05:00 <ErwinJunge> DocScrutinizer: Interesting thread on OC there, thanks for the clear EM explanation :)
Oct 19 18:05:28 <DocScrutinizer> yw
Oct 19 18:30:12 <freemangordon> :D
Oct 19 18:35:55 <luke-jr_> xchat is segfaulting :\
Oct 19 18:36:00 <luke-jr_> any ideas
Oct 19 18:50:56 <DocScrutinizer> extremely obsolete version did that on auto-complete enabled
Oct 19 19:52:36 <ruskie> http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/10/19/viking_hybrid_dram_nand/ <-- nice idea
Oct 19 20:06:02 <user00> hi.
Oct 19 20:09:54 <user00> so any n900 owners that use meego or nitdroid as a replacement for maemo ?
Oct 19 20:10:13 <user00> are these projects mature enough?
Oct 19 20:10:35 <user00> worth the time? what extras to you get buy using these OSs ?
Oct 19 20:11:01 <piggz> lo  devs...is it possible in QML to have an Audio element playing and a SoundEffect playing at the same time??
Oct 19 20:11:31 <user00> by*
Oct 19 20:12:40 <user00> piggz, possible to answer my question ?
Oct 19 20:13:22 <piggz> user00: i have used meego-ce, but not nitroid on my n900
Oct 19 20:13:58 <user00> piggz : any good apps for it?
Oct 19 20:14:08 <piggz> user00: meego-ce is ok...a bit slower than maemo, but some good work is being done on it...it is even binary compatible with n9
Oct 19 20:14:40 <piggz> probably not as many apps as on maemo
Oct 19 20:15:36 <user00> hmm
Oct 19 20:15:48 <user00> i assume many apps would run slowwer on the n900
Oct 19 20:16:07 <piggz> why?
Oct 19 20:16:25 <user00> nice that you could run binaries compiled for n9
Oct 19 20:16:57 <user00> well, the n9 has "1GHz Cortex A8 CPU, PowerVR SGX530 GPU, TI OMAP 3630 chipset"
Oct 19 20:17:02 <user00> and 1gb of ram
Oct 19 20:17:27 <user00> apps that depend on such specs will not run as fast on the n900
Oct 19 20:17:48 <piggz> no
Oct 19 20:19:03 <user00> please prove otherwise
Oct 19 20:19:11 <user00> seems logical to me
Oct 19 20:20:11 <piggz> i mean, i agree with you
Oct 19 20:20:26 <rd> Does anybody know, if XEP-0080 is still working on the n900 with azimuth?
Oct 19 23:35:11 <luojie-dune> Sucessfully run Alchemy on N900 via OpenJDK! WoW.
Oct 19 23:35:52 <luojie-dune> http://al.chemy.org to download Linux build. and run directly on N900
Oct 19 23:36:10 <luojie-dune> Space call menu. and set fullscreen
Oct 20 00:53:49 <Pate> hello
Oct 20 00:54:31 <Pate> anyone alive who can help me to solve a problem
Oct 20 00:54:48 <Pate> I need to disable my camera buttoon which is too sensitiv at the moment
Oct 20 00:54:49 <DocScrutinizer> no
Oct 20 00:54:58 <Pate> I just need to disable this button
Oct 20 00:55:09 <DocScrutinizer> err
Oct 20 00:55:31 <Pate> I am sure there is a way to disable this button some how with rooth.
Oct 20 00:55:58 <Pate> and the phone is n900
Oct 20 00:56:08 <DocScrutinizer> disable what exactly?
Oct 20 00:57:11 <Pate> disable the camera button
Oct 20 00:57:31 <DocScrutinizer> use cyan acrylate glue
Oct 20 00:57:42 <Pate> so now even slight touch of that camera buttoon willl allways open the camera app
Oct 20 00:57:50 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Oct 20 00:58:26 <Pate> i wish i would not have to use psysical force to disable this stupid button 
Oct 20 00:58:36 <DocScrutinizer> umm, I think I've seen an option to disable that somewhere
Oct 20 00:59:08 <Pate> i tried shortcutd app but it just did not do the trick
Oct 20 00:59:59 <DocScrutinizer> hmm yeah
Oct 20 01:00:59 <DocScrutinizer> dunno though, why shortcutd doesn't work. It should
Oct 20 01:01:09 <Pate> or just disaple the camera app is another way to do it
Oct 20 01:01:33 <DocScrutinizer> not that easy
Oct 20 01:01:42 <Pate> or remove that app
Oct 20 01:02:06 <Pate> i reallyy don't need that app
Oct 20 01:02:25 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Oct 20 01:11:14 <DocScrutinizer> Pate: please do in terminal: ls -l /etc/X11/Xsession.post/*camera-ui
Oct 20 01:11:33 <Pate> ok
Oct 20 01:11:43 <Pate> but is this se cover lens 
Oct 20 01:11:46 <Pate> and not the button 
Oct 20 01:12:17 <DocScrutinizer> err? sorry?
Oct 20 01:13:50 <Pate> http://natisbad.org/N900/n900-commented-hardware-specs.html 
Oct 20 01:13:57 <Pate> look that in camera buttoon 
Oct 20 01:14:09 <Pate>  Defined at arch/arm/mach-omap2/Kconfig:157
Oct 20 01:14:21 <Pate> mut i have no idea how to disable that over there??
Oct 20 01:16:10 <DocScrutinizer> me neither
Oct 20 01:16:38 <Pate> i cannot even find those files in my n900
Oct 20 01:18:47 <DocScrutinizer> you may try to disable camera-ui process loading in the files I pointed you at above. Dunno if it helps or if the camera-ui still will get started via dbus service when button is pressed. Worth a try anyway
Oct 20 01:21:54 <DocScrutinizer> I guess you don't want to build a new kernel that has no more definition for the hardware button in Kconfig, so forget about that natisbat stuff
Oct 20 01:22:25 <Pate> ok 
Oct 20 01:22:50 <DocScrutinizer> the correct way to do what you want was probably via gconf tweaks, which is what I guess shortcutd is doing. No idea why that doesn't work for you
Oct 20 01:23:30 <DocScrutinizer> you may want to ask again here in ca. now+12h. Better time for a lot of users in here
Oct 20 01:23:48 <Pate> yeah it is 4:20 in Finlanf
Oct 20 01:23:55 <bindi> finland, winland
Oct 20 01:24:04 <Pate> not the best time to solve this problem 
Oct 20 01:24:16 <Pate> but i ask tomoorow again 
Oct 20 01:24:33 <bindi> Pate: wait
Oct 20 01:24:35 <bindi> install uhhhh
Oct 20 01:24:37 <Pate> yeah
Oct 20 01:24:38 <bindi> oh wait nevermind
Oct 20 01:24:39 <bindi> lol
Oct 20 01:24:41 <bindi> camera *key*
Oct 20 01:24:45 <bindi> i was thinking of cam lens launcher
Oct 20 01:25:16 <Pate> yeah not solving the problem 
Oct 20 01:25:16 <DocScrutinizer> commeting out the # /usr/sbin/dsmetool -t /usr/bin/camera-ui   line in /etc/X11/Xsession.post/*camera-ui, plus reboot might already fix your problem
Oct 20 01:26:16 <Pate> yeah i give it a try but i am going now to bed 
Oct 20 01:26:27 <Pate> hopefully i can fix this problem tomorrow
Oct 20 01:26:48 <Pate> byw and good night all of you. and thanks for help 
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 20 02:59:57 2011