**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 05 02:59:57 2011
Nov 05 03:09:46 <jonwil> I doubt the baseband even exposes that information to the userspace
Nov 05 03:11:26 <jonwil> why would it need to, the userspace doesnt need it
Nov 05 03:14:03 <LaoLang_cool> got disconnected...
Nov 05 03:14:37 <LaoLang_cool> I find the way, press shift, then drap the mouse, then xterm could copy the selection
Nov 05 03:14:45 <LaoLang_cool> s/the/a/
Nov 05 03:14:45 <infobot> LaoLang_cool meant: I find a way, press shift, then drap the mouse, then xterm could copy the selection
Nov 05 03:19:19 <jonwil> so anyone know of any control panel widgets that would be worth cloning?
Nov 05 03:26:47 <DocScrutinizer> neighbour cells... well seems virtually every Nokia phone since at least 1999 had some so called netmonitor that was accessible via special AT cmds and FBus/IrDA. Wouldn't feel surprised to learn it's still buried in BB5 cmt firmware
Nov 05 03:28:03 <DocScrutinizer> also you dunno what liblocation&friends *really* does, neighbour cells are friggin useful to get a location without GPS available
Nov 05 03:34:48 <jonwil> aha, NET_NEIGHBOUR_CELLS_REQ and NET_NEIGHBOUR_CELLS_RESP exist in the headers I have. But I have no way to know if those are functional in the N900 or not
Nov 05 03:36:33 <jonwil> or how to call it given that we dont have headers for libisi
Nov 05 03:37:20 <psycho_oreos> grr this device is really pissing me off... is there any way to invoke bootmenu to run apart from having the keyboard slid out? I have tried numerous times in numerous ways to make the device get into bootmenu but it just refuses to. I've even reinstalled bootmenu and backupmenu which doesn't even seem to help
Nov 05 03:37:44 <jonwil> why cant you slide out the keyboard?
Nov 05 03:39:29 <psycho_oreos> I have, done it many times but the device fails to even get into bootmenu
Nov 05 03:39:42 <psycho_oreos> my other N900 work, except for this one
Nov 05 03:41:53 <jonwil> ok, it appears that the N900 does not have the right PN_NETWORK resource version to support NET_NEIGHBOUR_CELLS
Nov 05 04:01:29 <robbiethe1st> Is Bash installed?
Nov 05 04:02:52 <psycho_oreos> nope
Nov 05 04:03:31 <psycho_oreos> you're not telling me that's a pre-requisite is it? *facepalms self if that were the case*
Nov 05 04:06:58 <robbiethe1st> No
Nov 05 04:07:16 <robbiethe1st> Make sure sh is a symlink to busybox
Nov 05 04:07:44 <robbiethe1st> also, try remove --purge bootmenu and backupmenu, then reinstall
Nov 05 04:08:56 <psycho_oreos> I'll check those, the device came out of a clean reflash (vanilla+combined)
Nov 05 04:09:45 <robbiethe1st> Hell, I don't know. I've never had any trouble myself when I got my new device, flashed it etc.
Nov 05 04:11:55 <psycho_oreos> mine wasn't exactly new, for the 3rd device that is. Though I have had numerous troubles with this device
Nov 05 04:12:18 <robbiethe1st> You can try flashing a BM-installed rootfs...
Nov 05 04:12:24 <robbiethe1st> there's one on my website
Nov 05 04:13:26 <psycho_oreos> definitely going to give that a try if this still fails. Thanks
Nov 05 04:18:26 <luke-jr> [20:35:20] <SpeedEvil> No PC is open. <-- mine is
Nov 05 04:18:52 <luke-jr> [20:37:15] <jonwil> The "closed blobs" argument doesn't apply to ATI anymore <-- the only closed blobs argument ever was firmware, which is still closed afaik
Nov 05 04:19:37 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: Is the microcode open? Is the boot ROM inside the chipset open? ...
Nov 05 04:19:49 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: the software is.
Nov 05 04:20:04 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: considering OpenRISC for my next PC
Nov 05 04:20:28 <SpeedEvil> The software running on the CPU includes that which is run at boot, which is closed.
Nov 05 04:21:02 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: no, it doesn't, because that *isn't* running when I use it
Nov 05 04:21:12 <SpeedEvil> As far as you know.
Nov 05 04:21:19 <luke-jr> I wish it were open though… it only boots like 20% of the time -.-
Nov 05 04:21:25 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: Linux would notice.
Nov 05 04:34:39 <psycho_oreos> robbiethe1st, no dice, going to use that flashable image from your site: flashable_rootfs_v0.56-1-20101109.img
Nov 05 04:34:51 <robbiethe1st> yeah, that's good
Nov 05 04:35:11 <robbiethe1st> it's compatible with all later BM versions, so... you can use it for chainloading your files
Nov 05 04:36:17 <psycho_oreos> cool so you mean I can use it to restore compressed tarballs created by later BM versions? I was about to say with the filename, could it be that it contains a really old BM version
Nov 05 04:36:33 <Macer> faster package manager should seriously be the default
Nov 05 04:37:18 <robbiethe1st> Yeah; none of the important bits changed in later versions
Nov 05 04:37:38 <robbiethe1st> Just mainly GUI stuff and extra features. File paths and contents are the same
Nov 05 04:38:16 <psycho_oreos> too bad FAM lacks a few things like categorising programs in different categories, and it doesn't handle Ovi stuff well
Nov 05 04:38:25 <psycho_oreos> robbiethe1st, hmm ok
Nov 05 04:39:06 <psycho_oreos> as long as I can hack it to make it support ext3 formatted emmc then I should be all good :)
Nov 05 04:39:26 <robbiethe1st> yeah
Nov 05 05:29:46 <Macer> i swear i would love to know how nokia does its wifi
Nov 05 05:30:32 <Macer> the n900 wifi can go through 3ft lead across a room and up some stairs.. with my g2 i was happy to get a signal with the door closed
Nov 05 05:41:31 <ShadowJK> N9 supposedly performs more like g2 ;)
Nov 05 05:42:10 <Macer> so... like crap?
Nov 05 05:42:55 <Macer> margin call is a great movie 
Nov 05 05:43:31 <Macer> 80% of the people were just laid off and he is sad over his dog dying
Nov 05 05:46:47 <Macer> cssu should make faster application manager the default
Nov 05 05:56:49 <ShadowJK> when it doesn't screw up certain things? :)
Nov 05 06:03:07 <LaoLang_cool> I try to install an app via dpkg -i, but it says some depends missing, is there an option to let dpkg solve depends automatically?
Nov 05 06:11:54 <psycho_oreos> no
Nov 05 06:13:02 <LaoLang_cool_> I got disconnected...
Nov 05 06:13:07 <LaoLang_cool_> Anyone has helped me?
Nov 05 06:13:38 <psycho_oreos> answer is no
Nov 05 06:13:51 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: thank you
Nov 05 06:18:33 <LaoLang_cool_> merlin1991: thank you your weechat! it works fine
Nov 05 06:21:10 <LaoLang_cool_> merlin1991: it would be better if it supports perl/python :)
Nov 05 06:21:29 <LaoLang_cool_> I think it can be uploaded to repo
Nov 05 06:23:32 <Macer> anybody know of a good silicon cover for an n900
Nov 05 06:23:36 <Macer> ?
Nov 05 06:24:49 <psycho_oreos> otterbox case
Nov 05 06:24:59 <Macer> does it slide?
Nov 05 06:25:08 <Macer> to access the keybaord?
Nov 05 06:25:12 <psycho_oreos> yes
Nov 05 06:25:18 <Macer> nice. thanks. 
Nov 05 06:25:24 <psycho_oreos> nw
Nov 05 06:26:02 <Jef91> Anyone know how I can get X running from a Debian Chroot on the n900?
Nov 05 06:26:12 <Jef91> I've got a terminal of it, just not sure how to get X running
Nov 05 06:27:06 <psycho_oreos> are you using easy debian?
Nov 05 06:27:16 <Jef91> I installed with that yea
Nov 05 06:27:25 <Jef91> but hitting the "lxde" option in the menu doesn't launch anything
Nov 05 06:27:37 <Macer> doh!
Nov 05 06:27:41 <Macer> amazon doesn't have any :(
Nov 05 06:28:44 <psycho_oreos> Jef91, that debian LXDE was supposed to launch debian chroot with X running. Though it takes a bit of time
Nov 05 06:29:05 <psycho_oreos> Macer, I think they're getting quite rare now, otterbox may still sell them on their own site, if not there's always fleabay
Nov 05 06:30:27 <Jef91> Yea it dumps out
Nov 05 06:31:38 <Macer> hah
Nov 05 06:31:46 <Macer> psycho_oreos: what about the other company...
Nov 05 06:31:58 <Macer> amzer
Nov 05 06:33:57 <psycho_oreos> Macer, amzer? never heard. fyi otterbox case for N900 (commuter series) is not a silicon cover, the material used to make the case is some sort of ABS plastic
Nov 05 06:34:53 <LaoLang_cool_> How to set x resource for xterm? I want to change its background/foreground
Nov 05 06:34:56 <LaoLang_cool_> color
Nov 05 06:35:17 <Macer> http://www.amazon.com/Windshield-Mount-Holder-Large-Suction/dp/B0038B4BY4/ref=sr_1_65?ie=UTF8&qid=1320474859&sr=8-65
Nov 05 06:35:25 <Macer> does tht look like an n900 in the pic? :)
Nov 05 06:35:28 <Macer> hahaha
Nov 05 06:35:41 <Macer> psycho_oreos: yeah i saw that. i will check their site otherwise i will get the amzer one
Nov 05 06:35:46 <Macer> tnx
Nov 05 06:35:58 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, under X Terminal, there's a blue down arrow, hit that and hit color
Nov 05 06:36:05 <psycho_oreos> s/color/font/
Nov 05 06:36:06 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: LaoLang_cool_, under X Terminal, there's a blue down arrow, hit that and hit font
Nov 05 06:38:21 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: nice, thank you, I wonder if maemo supports to set up in .Xdefault? seems it doesn't
Nov 05 06:39:00 <psycho_oreos> Macer, I personally have tried two other cases for N900, but none is as superior as otterbox commuter series case for N900. After several times of removing N900 from the case and replacing it back into the case I never had its plastic tabs falling off. Had those plastic tabs falling off the fitting of the case back onto N900 would be very loose. Also from accidental dropping showed N900 in otterbox case showed no damage to either the case or the device, wh
Nov 05 06:39:00 <psycho_oreos> ereas my first clear case actually cracked
Nov 05 06:39:12 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, don't know it might
Nov 05 06:40:40 <Jef91> where does maemo keep it's .desktop files?
Nov 05 06:41:00 <psycho_oreos> various parts of the filesystem, probably a good idea to issue a find on them
Nov 05 06:41:44 <Jef91> how about easy debian?
Nov 05 06:44:06 <psycho_oreos> Jef91, /usr/share/applications/hildon
Nov 05 06:46:40 <Jef91> thanks!
Nov 05 06:46:48 <Jef91> Got Enlightenment running on this thing finally
Nov 05 06:46:52 <Jef91> Looks really slick
Nov 05 07:00:38 <Jef91> anyone know where easy debian saves it's settings to
Nov 05 07:00:47 <Jef91> like things that would normally go in ~/ where do they go?
Nov 05 07:01:41 <psycho_oreos> settings are saved into the image itself
Nov 05 07:03:53 <Macer> hostmode easy now?
Nov 05 07:04:18 <Macer> wth?
Nov 05 07:05:38 <jonwil> I think Rule #1 of looking after a N900 is to ensure that you NEVER have the phone plugged into USB (data or charging) unless the phone is in a position where accidentally bumping the cable is not possible
Nov 05 07:05:54 <jonwil> I make sure my N900 is never somewhere it can be knocked off with the cable plugged in
Nov 05 07:08:27 <Macer> lol. me too. i put it on a velvet pillow
Nov 05 07:08:33 <LaoLang_cool_> how to see ip? there isn't ipconfig cmd
Nov 05 07:08:39 <LaoLang_cool_> ifconfig
Nov 05 07:08:57 <Macer> i was going to try to use a duracell mygrid
Nov 05 07:09:09 <LaoLang_cool_> oh, it's available when I'm root
Nov 05 07:09:29 <Macer> and see if it were possible to put the microusb clip on without ruining the cam
Nov 05 07:10:13 <Macer> i also have 2 batteries now heh
Nov 05 07:10:39 <Macer> does hostmode work on the n900??
Nov 05 07:12:23 <Macer> homescreen dockbar?
Nov 05 07:14:24 <psycho_oreos> hostmode does work with N900 only if you have power kernel (at least version 46 iinm)
Nov 05 07:22:11 <LaoLang_cool_> what's the default password for root?
Nov 05 07:22:22 <LaoLang_cool_> I'm trying to ssh into n900, but it needs root's passwd
Nov 05 07:23:17 <psycho_oreos> did you install sshd?
Nov 05 07:23:21 <xkr47> LaoLang_cool_, http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access
Nov 05 07:23:28 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: yes
Nov 05 07:23:37 <xkr47> LaoLang_cool_, I use rootsh
Nov 05 07:24:20 <LaoLang_cool_> xkr47: nice!
Nov 05 07:24:24 <LaoLang_cool_> rootme works
Nov 05 07:28:51 <Macer> psycho_oreos: well i will tell you how this case goes ;)
Nov 05 07:28:59 <Macer> if it is any good i might get a couple more 
Nov 05 07:29:08 <Macer> i wish they had red ones still but they don't :(
Nov 05 07:29:33 <Macer> what is home screen dockbar?
Nov 05 07:30:05 <psycho_oreos> Macer, lol they're black by default and its the only colour. What's wrong with black anyway? N900 is black by default lol
Nov 05 07:30:17 <Macer> oh i actually got a clear one
Nov 05 07:30:25 <Macer> because that was one of the few ones in stock :(
Nov 05 07:30:52 <Macer> i don't care about the color. i'm not really worried too much about drops .. if it takes 1 hit from a drop i'm happy and it has done its job
Nov 05 07:31:00 <Macer> it's the minor scratches from common use that i can't stand
Nov 05 07:31:45 <Macer> humanity theme for maemo lol
Nov 05 07:31:48 <Macer> too funny
Nov 05 07:32:02 <Macer> i am going through the faster app manager still installing apps... geez there are a ton of them
Nov 05 07:32:33 <psycho_oreos> clear otterbox case?
Nov 05 07:32:49 <Macer> no.. the other brand... i might get an otterbox too
Nov 05 07:32:52 <Macer> just as a backup
Nov 05 07:32:55 <psycho_oreos> ahh wait those clear crystal cases
Nov 05 07:33:12 <LaoLang_cool_> what's the passwd for user? I try to ssh user@myip
Nov 05 07:33:18 <psycho_oreos> yeah I've dropped it once I think and it cracked the screen portion of the crystal case.
Nov 05 07:33:22 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, there's none
Nov 05 07:33:30 <Macer> amzer
Nov 05 07:33:42 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: but it fails if I simply hit enter
Nov 05 07:33:55 <Macer> psycho_oreos: yeah. i don't intend on dropping my n900 ;)
Nov 05 07:33:58 <LaoLang_cool_> maybe user doesn't allowed to use sshd service?
Nov 05 07:34:03 <psycho_oreos> I haven't heard of amzer but I bought this (somewhat cheap) generic one from the shops. Didn't last long though
Nov 05 07:34:20 <Macer> i'm usually incredibly careful with my gadgets.. ever since the n810 cotastrophe 
Nov 05 07:34:22 <Macer> lol
Nov 05 07:34:26 <Macer> i'm still kicking myself for that one
Nov 05 07:34:32 <psycho_oreos> Macer, I know I know.. neither do I (or most of us anyway), though accidents can and will happen :) the last thing you want is a broken N900
Nov 05 07:34:46 <Macer> oh i agree.. but there is only so much that a case can do ;)
Nov 05 07:34:54 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, no they're allowed, its just there's no passwd set.. you can set it via root however
Nov 05 07:34:57 <Macer> if i were that paranoid i would get the aluminum boxwave armored case
Nov 05 07:35:03 <psycho_oreos> Macer, indeed
Nov 05 07:35:04 <Macer> honestly i would get it now if it slid open 
Nov 05 07:35:12 <Macer> but it doesn't :/
Nov 05 07:35:47 <Macer> psycho_oreos: these n900 accessories are geting more and more rare
Nov 05 07:35:56 <Macer> i think i might actually purchase extra parts just in case
Nov 05 07:36:02 <Macer> like housings and keypads
Nov 05 07:36:33 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: hmm, nice, it works!
Nov 05 07:36:40 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: thank you!
Nov 05 07:37:38 <psycho_oreos> Macer, it is true that N900 accessories are getting rare.. I guess its really inevitable that accessories are only there when there's a huge demand for it.. though its really nokia for you in other sense
Nov 05 07:37:38 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, nw
Nov 05 07:37:48 <LaoLang_cool_> n900 is so cool!
Nov 05 07:37:52 <LaoLang_cool_> for geek...
Nov 05 07:39:42 <psycho_oreos> for a linux user :P
Nov 05 07:40:35 <psycho_oreos> s/user/lover/
Nov 05 07:40:36 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: for a linux lover :P
Nov 05 07:41:14 <psycho_oreos> N950 is even more cool than N900 had it been made available to the public
Nov 05 07:41:54 <LaoLang_cool_> I hear that n950 is only available for developer
Nov 05 07:43:00 <psycho_oreos> indeed, and that still is the case.. only for the selected developers
Nov 05 07:43:49 <LaoLang_cool_> can't understand
Nov 05 07:47:11 <psycho_oreos> N950 is still only for developers.. but nokia gave it out to developers which meets the criteria fit for nokia to hand them out. You can be a developer, no problems with that but if you cannot do the things that nokia for example requests you to do as a developer you're basically not fit for the task.
Nov 05 07:49:28 <Macer> is there a usable sftp client for mameo?
Nov 05 07:49:28 <LaoLang_cool_> I hope I can be a developer on someday :)
Nov 05 07:49:29 <psycho_oreos> If you're not fit for the task, you won't get N950 as a result
Nov 05 07:49:37 <Macer> gftp is still broken
Nov 05 07:49:40 <Macer> :(
Nov 05 07:49:48 <psycho_oreos> sshfs ftw
Nov 05 07:50:05 <Macer> does sshfs work in maemo??
Nov 05 07:50:08 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, unfortunately requests for N950 developer's device has long been closed
Nov 05 07:50:38 <psycho_oreos> Macer, it does for me
Nov 05 07:50:59 <Macer> can you show me an example syntax to mount?
Nov 05 07:52:14 <psycho_oreos> sshfs user@host:/remote/dir /local/dir
Nov 05 07:52:36 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: oh...
Nov 05 07:53:07 <Macer> usage: sshfs [user@]host:[dir] mountpoint [options]
Nov 05 07:53:29 <Macer> oops.. awesome thanks... do i have to do it as root?
Nov 05 07:53:33 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, they only had 400 N950 to hand out for Qt developers. Many applied in the first round (which only 350 were to be handed out), then they had a second round (which they only could send out 50)
Nov 05 07:53:49 <psycho_oreos> Macer, no, if you do it means only root can access that mount point
Nov 05 07:55:58 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: nokia has abandoned the development on meego, so I guess few developer would get intested in it
Nov 05 07:56:46 <Macer> fuse: failed to open /dev/fuse: Permission denied
Nov 05 07:56:49 <Macer> lame
Nov 05 07:57:06 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, that's beside the point, N950 is far superior than N900 in almost every way. The N950 were used by developers to port their programs into Qt so that N9 users can use it
Nov 05 07:57:34 <psycho_oreos> Macer, hmm try as root then (which means you'll have to use root to see things and do transfers, etc)
Nov 05 07:57:52 <Macer> that sucks
Nov 05 07:58:08 <Macer> i just wanted to copy and paste from filemanager
Nov 05 07:58:22 <Macer> maybe i can set an acl on /dev/fuse
Nov 05 07:58:25 <Macer> lol
Nov 05 07:58:26 <psycho_oreos> you might be able to run that as root *snickers*
Nov 05 07:58:39 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: sounds interesting, n900 is still ok
Nov 05 07:58:39 <psycho_oreos> or stickybit.. suid :)
Nov 05 07:58:41 <Macer> omg that is lame too
Nov 05 07:59:54 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, not saying N900 is bad but N950 is rare and its cooler. I was one of the many candidates for the N950 devkit but failed to get shortlisted. Had I have N950 I wouldn't want N9
Nov 05 08:00:06 <psycho_oreos> s/cooler/cool/
Nov 05 08:00:07 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: LaoLang_cool_, not saying N900 is bad but N950 is rare and its cool. I was one of the many candidates for the N950 devkit but failed to get shortlisted. Had I have N950 I wouldn't want N9
Nov 05 08:00:09 <jaska> i wouldnt mind more ram for a n900 :|
Nov 05 08:00:19 <psycho_oreos> jaska, virtually impossible
Nov 05 08:00:24 <jaska> i know
Nov 05 08:00:34 <jaska> which is why i am terminally angry at nokia
Nov 05 08:00:47 <Macer> lol
Nov 05 08:00:50 <psycho_oreos> because of that? lol
Nov 05 08:00:52 <Macer> omg that was ghetto
Nov 05 08:01:08 <Macer> i changed the owner of /dev/fuse to user
Nov 05 08:01:09 <jaska> psycho: no, that and because i cant buy n950s :|
Nov 05 08:01:12 <Macer> and it worked
Nov 05 08:01:28 <Macer> lol! i feel ashamed
Nov 05 08:02:00 <psycho_oreos> jaska, ahh yes that I completely agree.. rumour mills are reporting there's 1000s of N950 probably still lying in various warehouses around the world unused and unloved. Then there's rumours of heaps of N950 in nokia offices
Nov 05 08:02:08 <Macer> doesnt the n900 have "1GB"
Nov 05 08:02:11 <Macer> :)
Nov 05 08:02:17 <Macer> with nand swapping
Nov 05 08:02:18 <jaska> 768mb of swap does not count
Nov 05 08:02:22 <Macer> haha
Nov 05 08:02:25 <Macer> agreed
Nov 05 08:02:30 <psycho_oreos> Macer, 256MB RAM + 768MB Swap
Nov 05 08:02:41 <Macer> yah. hence the "
Nov 05 08:02:50 <Macer> psycho_oreos: thanks. sshfs works
Nov 05 08:02:56 <Macer> i did it ghetto style
Nov 05 08:03:00 <Macer> but it works
Nov 05 08:03:34 <jaska> wouldnt have changing the group on the device node to users and giving g+rw have worked?
Nov 05 08:03:38 <psycho_oreos> Macer, glad it did
Nov 05 08:04:03 <psycho_oreos> jaska, doubt it, user isn't in the group of root
Nov 05 08:04:45 <jaska> psycho: i meant changing the group of the device node to something user is part of.
Nov 05 08:05:12 <jonwil> why not just do it the simple way with chmod a+rw /blah
Nov 05 08:06:20 <jonwil> bah, run out of things to do/clone/reverse engineer that are actually doable :(
Nov 05 08:06:29 <psycho_oreos> jaska, ahh, but that's more or less similar to what Macer did anyway
Nov 05 08:06:56 <psycho_oreos> isn't it chmod o+rw? *shrugs* I prefer octal :D
Nov 05 08:07:07 <Macer> heh
Nov 05 08:07:13 <Macer> my way was horrible
Nov 05 08:07:30 <Macer> fuse shou.d have created a grp and added user to it
Nov 05 08:07:34 <Macer> should
Nov 05 08:08:02 <Macer> this is great tho. awesome using file manager to xfer across my wifi
Nov 05 08:08:15 <Macer> wish file managr simply supported smb
Nov 05 08:08:22 <Macer> :-/
Nov 05 08:08:28 <psycho_oreos> it sort of does I think
Nov 05 08:08:36 <psycho_oreos> there's cifs support via extras-devel iinm
Nov 05 08:08:46 <psycho_oreos> maybe even kp might have it *shrugs*
Nov 05 08:09:29 <jonwil> osso-systemui-tklock is too hard to clone, as are the browser ui bits, the connectivity widgets, and everything else worth cloning :(
Nov 05 08:18:23 <Macer> jonwil: welcome to where maemo failed
Nov 05 08:18:42 <Macer> "open"
Nov 05 08:18:53 <Macer> wait...
Nov 05 08:18:56 <Macer> * open
Nov 05 08:19:35 <Macer> * 30% open hardware 80% open software
Nov 05 08:19:55 <Macer> you would think there would be a rating system like that
Nov 05 08:19:57 <Macer> lol
Nov 05 08:20:22 <Macer> isnt there some "open committee" ? 
Nov 05 08:20:42 <psycho_oreos> non-existent by now I bet :)
Nov 05 08:20:55 <LaoLang_cool_> wow
Nov 05 08:21:21 <LaoLang_cool_> Has nokia stopped produce more n950?
Nov 05 08:21:50 <psycho_oreos> they've stopped it ages ago, it was meant to be for the public I bet before Flop came around
Nov 05 08:22:29 <LaoLang_cool_> The following packages have been kept back:
Nov 05 08:22:32 <LaoLang_cool_>   libsdl-mixer1.2
Nov 05 08:22:43 <LaoLang_cool_> Is it danger to upgrade it?
Nov 05 08:23:51 <psycho_oreos> what are you doing exactly?
Nov 05 08:24:00 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: apt-get upgrade
Nov 05 08:24:18 <LaoLang_cool_> A question, I'm tring to use n900 to ssh my pc, but my pc user name contains a space, how to ssh?
Nov 05 08:24:21 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, I would personally advise against that.. even dist-upgrade
Nov 05 08:24:39 <psycho_oreos> you SSH via its IP address
Nov 05 08:25:06 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: how to upgrade recommended? use app manager?
Nov 05 08:25:36 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: ssh ip@ip?
Nov 05 08:25:56 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, don't upgrade by hand, if there's an update for OTA stuff (like what nokia used to do) then use apt-get.. otherwise don't
Nov 05 08:26:04 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, ssh user@IP
Nov 05 08:26:31 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: but user is a string contains a space, say, "my user"
Nov 05 08:26:55 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: don't upgrade by hand, then by what?
Nov 05 08:27:09 <LaoLang_cool_> ssh my user@ip is wrong I guess
Nov 05 08:27:26 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, linux or unix rather doesn't support usernames with spaces
Nov 05 08:27:35 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: I'm on windows...
Nov 05 08:27:42 <psycho_oreos> its probably got underscore (_)
Nov 05 08:27:49 <psycho_oreos> try enclosing it in quotes
Nov 05 08:28:14 <psycho_oreos> maybe something like ssh "user@IP"
Nov 05 08:28:25 <psycho_oreos> or ssh "user"@IP
Nov 05 08:30:10 <Macer> lol
Nov 05 08:30:11 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: "user"@ip works :)
Nov 05 08:30:16 <Macer> magread?
Nov 05 08:30:26 <Macer> is that for on the go cc theft?
Nov 05 08:30:52 <Macer> :) sir.. you dropped your wallet! after reading all the cards
Nov 05 08:32:45 <Macer> does maemo jabber support jabber channels?
Nov 05 08:36:50 <petteri> on n900 it does
Nov 05 08:37:15 <Macer> does it?
Nov 05 08:37:20 <Macer> i should try it
Nov 05 08:37:29 <Macer> i should make a jabber server heh
Nov 05 08:40:31 <Macer> no google+ clients for maemo?
Nov 05 08:43:29 <MohammadAG> no
Nov 05 08:43:35 <Macer> open media player? :)
Nov 05 08:43:54 <Macer> MohammadAG: that kind of sucks
Nov 05 08:44:06 <Macer> guess i will see how well it runs in the browser
Nov 05 08:58:48 <Macer> does cssu have a hotspot sompatible kernel?
Nov 05 09:01:42 <Macer> damn the maemo vkb is horrible
Nov 05 09:02:06 <Macer> testing
Nov 05 09:02:10 <MohammadAG> CSSU doesn't ship a kernel
Nov 05 09:02:18 <MohammadAG> meego's kb is awesome
Nov 05 09:02:30 <Macer> is there a meego kb for maemo?
Nov 05 09:02:37 <Macer> :)
Nov 05 09:02:54 <MohammadAG> yes, but only for qt-components i think
Nov 05 09:02:56 <MohammadAG> malit
Nov 05 09:02:57 <Macer> it has to be awesome. there is no qwerty
Nov 05 09:03:03 <Macer> oh
Nov 05 09:03:06 <Macer> :(
Nov 05 09:03:16 <Macer> no qwerty for n9
Nov 05 09:03:31 <Macer> and not enough n950s to allow the vkb to suck
Nov 05 09:04:03 <Macer> ok. i am installing like 100 pkgs :) best to charge this thing
Nov 05 09:19:27 <Macer> http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/u-s-cellular-rejected-apple-and-the-iphone-4s/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews
Nov 05 09:19:43 <Macer> you tell em us cellular!
Nov 05 09:19:46 <Macer> haha
Nov 05 11:02:23 <Macer> i wonder if i could turn my n810 into a server :)
Nov 05 11:02:44 <Macer> i would have to install gentoo or something on it tho
Nov 05 11:02:53 <Macer> :-/ or is there a straight debian distro for it?
Nov 05 11:06:09 * Macer has to do some research..i remember luke-jr going out of his way to run gentoo on it
Nov 05 11:06:35 <Macer> maybe there is debian for it :) that would be nice... i want to use my n810 as a low powered server heh
Nov 05 11:06:39 <Macer> with its 128MB of ram
Nov 05 11:06:43 <Macer> and 400MHz cpu
Nov 05 11:06:46 <Macer> RAW... POWER
Nov 05 11:10:26 <HRH_H_Crab> ive run gentoo on a P2 350 before.
Nov 05 11:10:32 <HRH_H_Crab> i think i had more than 128MB though.
Nov 05 11:11:12 <Macer> 128MB is good enough for most things
Nov 05 11:11:28 <Macer> i just want to run bind and httpd on it .. irssi.. stuff like that
Nov 05 11:11:37 <Macer> low powered stuff ... only a handful of users
Nov 05 11:11:39 <HRH_H_Crab> the machine this irc client is running on has 28MB
Nov 05 11:11:42 <Macer> i wonder how well it can do it
Nov 05 11:11:55 <HRH_H_Crab> linksys nslu2
Nov 05 11:11:55 <Macer> haha
Nov 05 11:12:00 <Macer> nice!
Nov 05 11:12:21 <Macer> well i have to find out information on how to install a full linux distro on the n810
Nov 05 11:12:21 <HRH_H_Crab> 211 days uptime
Nov 05 11:12:33 <Macer> heh.. the n810 has its own ups ;)
Nov 05 11:12:55 <Macer> that lasts a very long time.. although i'm sure the battery is drained faster when dealing with a non-maemo distro
Nov 05 11:13:02 <Macer> because of bme problems that are always lingering
Nov 05 11:13:08 <Macer> let me look it up
Nov 05 11:13:30 <HRH_H_Crab> well all you need to do is figure out some way to shut itself down cleanly when it figures out the mains has gone...
Nov 05 11:13:51 <ShadowJK> I wouldn't call it "bme problem" :P
Nov 05 11:14:41 <Macer> ShadowJK: heh.. isn't that where the meego people were having a ton of problems
Nov 05 11:14:46 <Macer> as well as with mer
Nov 05 11:14:54 <Macer> and anything else that ran on the n810
Nov 05 11:14:57 <Macer> n900 too i thought
Nov 05 11:15:10 <Macer> i need a damn minisd adapter... i don't have one lying around
Nov 05 11:15:11 <Macer> ugh!
Nov 05 11:15:16 <ShadowJK> it doesn't affect power consumption though
Nov 05 11:15:31 <Macer> maybe it was cpu throttling that was the issue
Nov 05 11:15:39 <Macer> the cpu always ran full speed
Nov 05 11:15:47 <Macer> when not running maemo?
Nov 05 11:16:06 <ShadowJK> it's all about wakeups
Nov 05 11:16:33 <ShadowJK> under Maemo the cpu is stopped most of the time :P
Nov 05 11:17:16 <Macer> heh
Nov 05 11:17:31 <Macer> omg. i have every sd adapter except micro to mini
Nov 05 11:17:42 <Macer> why couldn't nokia just use a microsd slot for the n810?!
Nov 05 11:17:55 <Macer> oh wait... it has 2GB internal doesn't it? hm.. that might be too small
Nov 05 11:18:41 <ShadowJK> it didn't exist yet
Nov 05 11:19:20 <Macer> really? 
Nov 05 11:19:25 <Macer> wth
Nov 05 11:19:28 <Macer> well.. my mistake :)
Nov 05 11:19:48 <Macer> i will order the adapter when i get a 32GB for my transformer
Nov 05 11:20:10 <Macer> then i can move the 16GB i have in it to my N900 and the 8GB from there to the N810 for debian 
Nov 05 11:20:22 <Macer> it is possible to intall debian onto the n810 right?
Nov 05 11:22:25 <ShadowJK> for various definitions of "possible"
Nov 05 11:22:52 <Macer> bare metal install 
Nov 05 11:22:57 <Macer> using bootmenu to start it
Nov 05 11:23:29 <Macer> and having all the necessary hardware for the server to work.. which i would guess would be the screen and keyboard 
Nov 05 11:23:32 <Macer> and wifi
Nov 05 11:23:48 <Macer> a small server is what i'm aiming for
Nov 05 11:23:56 <Macer> X is unnecessary... console is
Nov 05 11:24:16 <Macer> what makes it so great is if it does have problems i can just flip it open and use the screen and keyboard to find out why
Nov 05 11:24:42 <Macer> and i would also like the screen to be able to turn off :)
Nov 05 11:34:46 <Hurrian> hmm, does the N900 need 15Kohm resistor for USB host mode?
Nov 05 11:35:02 <Hurrian> i hackjobbed a USB AF-AF adaptor
Nov 05 11:35:18 <Sicelo> no
Nov 05 11:36:10 <Hurrian> wait, lemme take a pic of my hackjob
Nov 05 11:37:23 <Sicelo> if u diy the f-f adapter.. make sure it does correct crossing of the connections.. someone here bought one that didn't, and obviously wouldnt work
Nov 05 11:38:25 <Hurrian> any diagrams?
Nov 05 11:38:54 <Hurrian> i connected GND to GND, D+ to D+, D- to D- and VCC to VCC.
Nov 05 11:40:47 <Hurrian> hmm, i might have shorted something, but my usb hub works just fine
Nov 05 11:40:59 <Hurrian> i dont have a multimeter on me right now, so i can't check
Nov 05 11:41:04 <Hurrian> http://goput.it/glm.jpg
Nov 05 11:41:47 <Hurrian> yes the soldering is horrible, yes i used a boxcutter, yes i cut up an ethernet cable to do it
Nov 05 11:46:00 * jonwil is now knee deep in the "conversations" applet trying to figure out as much of the "secret things" that it does as possible
Nov 05 11:46:57 <neal> jonwil: What's your long-term goal with respect to the reverse engineering that you are doing?
Nov 05 11:47:31 <jonwil> multiple things, some of it is to give app developers more options and more things they can use in their apps
Nov 05 11:48:01 <jonwil> some of it is to create things the CSSU can play with and use
Nov 05 11:48:38 <neal> fair enough
Nov 05 11:50:18 <jonwil> The messaging ui bit is to give anyone who might produce a replacement the info they need to make it do some of the important bits
Nov 05 11:52:26 <neal> don't you think it would be better to use community developped APIs rather than Nokia-no-longer-supported APIs?
Nov 05 11:53:42 <jonwil> except that for many of these things there IS no viable community developed API
Nov 05 11:54:37 <jonwil> e.g. if you want to embed the web browser widget, you can either write your own widget embedding (takes time) or just embed a tablet-browser-view widget
Nov 05 11:54:52 <jonwil> and get all the hard parts (scroll, zoom and some others) done for you
Nov 05 11:55:19 <neal> And WebKit doesn't have its own API for that type of thing?
Nov 05 11:55:28 <jonwil> Webkit does but thats if you want webkit
Nov 05 11:55:40 <jonwil> You can embed a QT Webkit widget if you want
Nov 05 11:56:01 <jonwil> but if you want Gecko, tablet-browser-view is the easy option
Nov 05 11:56:16 <neal> What I mean is: wouldn't it be better to replace the proprietary bits with open bits that are maintained (even if not yet integrated into Maemo)
Nov 05 11:57:20 <jonwil> If you were to replace the proprietary browser bits you would need to also replace the conversations app (which embeds a browser widget), the nokia maps app, the "getting started" app
Nov 05 11:57:28 <jonwil> plus the flash plugin
Nov 05 11:57:36 <neal> yes, that would be great :)
Nov 05 11:57:49 <jonwil> its hard
Nov 05 11:58:05 <neal> true
Nov 05 11:58:11 <neal> but it seems more sustainable
Nov 05 11:58:38 <neal> especially given that maemo is abandonned
Nov 05 11:58:40 <jonwil> There are already open browsers for Maemo if you want them
Nov 05 11:58:51 <jonwil> including Firefox mobile (aka Fennec)
Nov 05 11:58:57 <jonwil> and I think at least one Webkit based option
Nov 05 11:58:59 <jonwil> but you dont get flash
Nov 05 11:59:06 <jonwil> or a bunch of other important things
Nov 05 11:59:15 <neal> true
Nov 05 11:59:25 <neal> although flash never worked for me on the built in browser when I needed it
Nov 05 11:59:33 <Hurrian> ahahaha, fennec on maemo
Nov 05 11:59:54 <jonwil> If you think you can produce an open source flash plugin for Maemo, feel free to try.
Nov 05 11:59:59 <Hurrian> it became pretty clear later on that they're not targeting maemo itself
Nov 05 12:00:17 <neal> I don't use flash :)
Nov 05 12:00:35 <Hurrian> i really don't care for flash on mobile - after using ONLY a tab 8.9 for a few days, i learned that you don't miss much
Nov 05 12:00:49 <jonwil> I think an open source flash plugin for embedded linux would be great, especially if it can "lie" to all those flash websites like Hulu that refuse to work on mobile versions of Flash
Nov 05 12:01:02 <jonwil> but hey, I dont know anywhere near enough about Flash to try such a thing
Nov 05 12:01:21 <Hurrian> i don't play games, youtube has device clients everywhere, and no more flash ads, just gif/jpg ads
Nov 05 12:01:48 <Hurrian> jonwil: the desktop flash player is barely even worth using
Nov 05 12:01:57 <Hurrian> *desktop open source
Nov 05 12:02:10 <jonwil> yeah I know open source flash players suck unfortunatly
Nov 05 12:02:22 <jonwil> I am surprised we havent seen more effort into such things
Nov 05 12:03:17 <Macer> flash sucks
Nov 05 12:03:20 <jonwil> yes
Nov 05 12:03:20 <Macer> apple says so
Nov 05 12:03:25 <Macer> :)
Nov 05 12:03:30 <jonwil> but as long as web sites like YouTube keep using it, I have to keep using it
Nov 05 12:03:39 <Macer> yeah
Nov 05 12:03:46 <jonwil> What pisses me off are "web" developers who think designing the entire site in Flash is a good idea.
Nov 05 12:03:54 <Macer> but honestly.. it does suck
Nov 05 12:03:54 <jonwil> Flash as a video player is ok.
Nov 05 12:04:00 <jonwil> Flash for an interactive game is also ok.
Nov 05 12:04:00 <Macer> there are better options 
Nov 05 12:04:14 <Hurrian> ok for the desktop, deffo not for mobile
Nov 05 12:04:16 <Macer> but if there is no need to change people wont change
Nov 05 12:04:19 <jonwil> Name a better option that runs on all the common browsers in use
Nov 05 12:04:26 <jonwil> Including Internet Explorer 6.0
Nov 05 12:04:43 <Hurrian> wait, lemme rethink that
Nov 05 12:04:45 <Macer> uhm.........
Nov 05 12:04:47 <Hurrian> it depends really
Nov 05 12:04:57 <Macer> silverlight?
Nov 05 12:04:58 <jonwil> Silverlight is passable but its not cross platform
Nov 05 12:05:20 <Hurrian> on mobile, you can pipe video stream and let the device software handle how to play it
Nov 05 12:05:33 <Hurrian> sw/hw accel, softsubs support, etc.
Nov 05 12:05:38 <Macer> that would require muxing
Nov 05 12:05:55 <Hurrian> on mobile + flash, only flash needs to be optimized
Nov 05 12:05:57 <Macer> which is not practical on a mob device
Nov 05 12:06:12 <Macer> nor practical for the server to mux
Nov 05 12:06:26 <jonwil> These days its not that hard to create a single H.264 video file that will play with the Flash plugin and through browser support on Android or on iOS
Nov 05 12:06:29 <Macer> the overhead would be too high
Nov 05 12:06:42 <Macer> ios wont do it
Nov 05 12:06:48 <Macer> apple says no
Nov 05 12:06:50 <Macer> :)
Nov 05 12:06:53 <jonwil> iOS wont do flash
Nov 05 12:07:30 <Macer> unfortunately flash has become the commercial standard
Nov 05 12:07:44 <jonwil> If it doesn't do H.264 video in a web page, that's an epic fail for Apple given that it has nice fast hardware playback of such video clips and given that Apple has been pushing HTML5 so much
Nov 05 12:07:46 <Hurrian> the flash client is unresonably buggy
Nov 05 12:07:47 <Macer> adobe has done a fine job of promoting it as well
Nov 05 12:08:06 <Hurrian> the only problem with flash is that it's buggy.
Nov 05 12:08:28 <Hurrian> otherwise, it does everything it set out to do: multimedia content delivery
Nov 05 12:08:43 <Hurrian> AS3 is a pain to learn though
Nov 05 12:09:38 <jonwil> btw, I recon the award for the worst ever use of Flash has to go to a PC game title that used a custom file format based on Flash for the game UI
Nov 05 12:09:51 <Hurrian> jonwil, GTA4?
Nov 05 12:09:57 <jonwil> nope, Command & Conquer 3
Nov 05 12:10:09 <jonwil> and some other games on related engines
Nov 05 12:10:40 <jonwil> Its not flash although the files start out as flash files and then get converted through some (unfortunatly not released to the public) tools
Nov 05 12:11:00 <jonwil> My limited knowledge of Flash internals comes from reverse engineering this nightmare of a format
Nov 05 12:11:43 <Hurrian> i still think the worst use of flash was on banner ads
Nov 05 12:12:23 <jonwil> yeah
Nov 05 12:12:36 <jonwil> Thats why I run Adblock on this desktop PC
Nov 05 12:12:45 <neal> Does anyone have time to review my Woodchuck packages so they can go into extras?
Nov 05 12:12:51 <Hurrian> i mean, if you needed a hover effect, was it so hard to use an iframe of fixed size, then do .shittybannerad:hover{ background: url(
Nov 05 12:13:26 <Hurrian> jonwil, the only device that doesn't run adblock is my android tablet
Nov 05 12:13:40 <Hurrian> because i am opposed to the idea of blocking via hosts files
Nov 05 12:13:43 <Hurrian> that's simply stupid
Nov 05 12:13:48 <Macer> hahaha
Nov 05 12:13:52 <neal> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/murmeltier/0.4~20111102-7/
Nov 05 12:14:17 <neal> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pywoodchuck/0.4~20111102-7/
Nov 05 12:14:26 <neal> those are the two most important, but there are a few others :/
Nov 05 12:14:29 <jonwil> I have no idea if my Gentoo box runs adblock or not (and if so which browsers it runs) but I dont use it to connect to the internet
Nov 05 12:14:53 <Hurrian> you don't connect a gentoo box to the internet?
Nov 05 12:14:57 <jonwil> well to browser the web that is
Nov 05 12:15:03 <Hurrian> ah
Nov 05 12:15:06 <jonwil> obviously I use emerge etc
Nov 05 12:15:13 <jonwil> I use the windows PC for web browsing as a rule
Nov 05 12:15:26 <jonwil> unless I am using gentoo so I can copy text from a web page or something
Nov 05 12:15:27 <Hurrian> i was gonna say 'use debian' if you leave it off the grid ;)
Nov 05 12:15:44 <jonwil> I picked Gentoo because the "build stuff yourself" is fun :P
Nov 05 12:16:08 <jonwil> well it isn't so fun when its taking the best part of 2 hours to emerge a large package like GCC or QT or KDE
Nov 05 12:16:30 <Hurrian> i was using gentoo until i lost track of that cflags etc i'd set
Nov 05 12:16:41 <Hurrian> so i cleaned house, and started using arch
Nov 05 12:16:54 <Hurrian> yes, the defaults are insecure
Nov 05 12:17:15 <jonwil> going back to flash, I think RMS said that Flash is one of the most important "missing pieces" of open source software.
Nov 05 12:17:40 <Hurrian> but then, why?
Nov 05 12:18:02 <Hurrian> what on the internet is missing if you don't have it?
Nov 05 12:18:21 <Hurrian> something more important would be open source mobile drivers
Nov 05 12:18:27 <Hurrian> (GPU, etc)
Nov 05 12:18:45 <jonwil> yeah I would rank "open drivers for the PowerVR GPUs" as the #1 thing the mobile ecosystem is missing
Nov 05 12:19:35 <Hurrian> most video sites nowadays have html5 options, and if you have enough cpu for flash, chances are you have enough cpu cycles for html5 video
Nov 05 12:19:38 <jonwil> unfortunatly its just not possible to buy an ARM SoC with an open GPU in it
Nov 05 12:20:05 <Hurrian> jonwil, yeah, unfortunately, device manufacturers don't like to release code
Nov 05 12:20:28 <Hurrian> i mean, you can't upgrade anything so they just expect you to buy new device if you want newer software
Nov 05 12:22:40 <jonwil> as for why you need Flash, I cant find one off the top of my head but I see sites all the time that would be less usable without Flash
Nov 05 12:23:16 <Hurrian> for a regular user: facebook games, for one
Nov 05 12:23:24 <jonwil> either way, Flash is here to say and rather than shunning it and hoping it goes away, trying to create an open source clone of the thing is the better option
Nov 05 12:25:21 <jonwil> hence GNU Gnash
Nov 05 12:26:19 <Hurrian> ...and lightspark
Nov 05 12:28:47 <jonwil> I wish lightspark and Gnash and all the other free flash efforts would unify under a single effort
Nov 05 12:43:48 <villager> I heard that Apple was working to make Flash go away a while ago, what happened with that?
Nov 05 12:44:31 <jonwil> It helped a little
Nov 05 12:44:52 <jonwil> but a lot of sites just kept the Flash and wrote an iOS specific app for iOS
Nov 05 12:44:56 <jonwil> rather than redo their site
Nov 05 12:45:14 <villager> I see
Nov 05 12:47:33 <Macer> damn
Nov 05 12:47:49 <Macer> maemo needs working google contacts integration
Nov 05 12:49:09 <ZogG> Macer there is some python app afaik
Nov 05 12:50:48 <Macer> i think i tried that
Nov 05 12:50:54 <Macer> it didnt work well
Nov 05 12:51:22 <Macer> at least google voice integration downloads the gvoice numbers
Nov 05 13:00:29 <merlin1991> back to flash games, the fsckd cryengine uses flash for game ui
Nov 05 13:00:32 <merlin1991> pita to edit
Nov 05 13:01:04 <merlin1991> besides also beeing strictly directx that is the 2nd most disturbing fact about it
Nov 05 13:03:43 <ZogG> ruskie, ping
Nov 05 13:03:47 <ruskie> *KLANG*
Nov 05 13:10:39 <ZogG> ruskie sup
Nov 05 13:10:46 <ZogG> ruskie, i'll pm you
Nov 05 13:10:56 <ZogG> ?
Nov 05 13:11:12 <ZogG> may i?
Nov 05 13:11:31 <ruskie> that's what pms are for
Nov 05 13:11:45 <ruskie> if I don't want to get them I'll put all PMs on ignore ;)
Nov 05 13:24:19 <ruskie> ~aegis
Nov 05 13:24:20 <infobot> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or  http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif
Nov 05 13:28:38 <slonopotamus> hmm... my n800 runs 3.1 kernel
Nov 05 13:29:07 <ZogG> slonopotamus, privet medved =()
Nov 05 13:29:13 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, ping
Nov 05 13:29:27 <slonopotamus> ZogG: who is on duty today?
Nov 05 13:30:32 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: pong
Nov 05 13:33:32 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer i had a qurestion but it doesn't matter i think
Nov 05 13:33:37 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, how are you?
Nov 05 13:33:48 <ZogG> slonopotamus duty?
Nov 05 13:34:25 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: american or german answer?
Nov 05 13:34:47 <ZogG> jewish =)
Nov 05 13:35:08 <ZogG> i would uderstand german if you say you feel shitty
Nov 05 13:35:12 <ZogG> coz it's only one
Nov 05 13:37:24 <DocScrutinizer> well, you got the german answer already, so here's the american one: great!
Nov 05 13:38:13 <DocScrutinizer> jewish I'm mostly lost, maybe: Happy to be alive!
Nov 05 13:43:31 <DocScrutinizer> or let me try better: I felt fine until you pinged me and told me "I got an unimportant question: how are you?" - now I ponder if I'm unimportant. (Dunno, I'm probably completely failing on jiddish humor)
Nov 05 14:00:02 <DocScrutinizer> unrelated comment: tmo -> #post1116491  just WTF for > 1 mio posts on that forum :-o
Nov 05 14:02:07 <DocScrutinizer> (don't bother about that particular post, it's just an example where I noticed it)
Nov 05 14:14:40 <fredep> Is there anyway to stream YouTube videos as just audio through my phone? At night I would like to listen to music, playlists, however, Adobe Flash is not very keen towards my little N900 Maemo powered device.
Nov 05 14:15:02 <fredep> I was wondering if there was anyway, for me to easily implement it in the existing media player or so, or have a application / desktop widget that comes close to it.
Nov 05 14:15:14 <fredep> (one that actually works)
Nov 05 14:16:09 <fredep> Or shall I have to implement it myself?
Nov 05 14:17:08 <SpeedEvil> Not easily.
Nov 05 14:17:16 <fredep> And if I would implement it myself, would anyone here consider there to be any demand for such an application?
Nov 05 14:17:24 <SpeedEvil> I'd like it.
Nov 05 14:17:31 <fredep> A backend that would implement YouTube video / audio streaming to the Maemo media player.
Nov 05 14:17:33 <SpeedEvil> It works best if you can run it on a seperate server.
Nov 05 14:17:48 <fredep> I would consider developing it myself, but only, if there would be a demand for it.
Nov 05 14:18:10 <SpeedEvil> The ideal way would be something that detected a flash stream, jumped in the way of the negotiation, proxying this negotiation to a server.
Nov 05 14:18:33 <fredep> I am looking for something that would stick to the ease and convenience of the existing media player, yet, have the possibility of viewing or listening to YouTube content through it, in the most optimal possible way.
Nov 05 14:18:34 <SpeedEvil> The server would then negotiate with the site, and do the transcoding, providing you with an audio only stream that gets fed into the browser.
Nov 05 14:19:00 <fredep> SpeedEvil, I would like to keep it without a server, if I would turn this into a public application.
Nov 05 14:19:14 <fredep> Just playing the audio, and hiding the video part, dirty hacky way, until Google implements ogg, is something I would stick to.
Nov 05 14:19:26 <fredep> It is dirty, it is hacky, but it works, and seems to be the only option.
Nov 05 14:19:58 <SpeedEvil> I've not found a nice player that will play all flash streams well.
Nov 05 14:20:03 <fredep> Hm.
Nov 05 14:20:05 <SpeedEvil> ffplay is sort-of-the-least-bad.
Nov 05 14:20:22 <fredep> Then I shall make it a quest to develop YouTube integration into the Maemo media player (I like things that integrate seamlessly into the existing Maemo applications).
Nov 05 14:20:42 <ShadowJK> the media player isn't modifiable :P
Nov 05 14:20:47 <fredep> And I shall see to what extend, I will consider your server suggestion.
Nov 05 14:20:49 <SpeedEvil> That would be awesome.
Nov 05 14:20:54 <fredep> I simply do not have the money to make such a server available.
Nov 05 14:21:23 * ShadowJK is having issues viewing youtube even on desktop now
Nov 05 14:21:28 <ShadowJK> damn insolvable captchas
Nov 05 14:22:14 <fredep> If I could just set a YouTube playlist in the Maemo media player, and be able to click that play button on the desktop widget, and have it run through, that would be very neat.
Nov 05 14:22:19 <fredep> Play, and close my eyes, and sleep.
Nov 05 14:22:38 <ShadowJK> If you go to m.youtube.com and tap a video, it actually opens in the media player
Nov 05 14:22:50 <fredep> At the moment I try to use browser mode, but, whenever my N900 goes into inactive / sleep mode, the music stops playing as it tries to load the next video, until I open my N900, then it continues.
Nov 05 14:22:53 <ShadowJK> but youtube only serves low quality stuff on m.
Nov 05 14:23:10 <fredep> The low quality thing is good as far as I am concerned.
Nov 05 14:23:16 <fredep> high quality flash stuff will lag the N900.
Nov 05 14:23:23 <fredep> Considering how proprietary and closed source it is.
Nov 05 14:23:31 <SpeedEvil> fredep: Attach charging cable, install simple-brightness-widget, and turn 'keep display on' on.
Nov 05 14:23:35 <ShadowJK> and by low quality I mean 176x144 video and 32kbit/s audio ;p
Nov 05 14:23:51 <ShadowJK> also disable "javascript pausing" in browser
Nov 05 14:24:00 <fredep> What does that option even do?
Nov 05 14:24:11 <fredep> It is set to 30 seconds, I left it like that because I have no idea what it actually does
Nov 05 14:24:13 <ShadowJK> it stops javascript when display is off
Nov 05 14:24:18 <fredep> Oh...
Nov 05 14:24:31 <ShadowJK> So that if you leave a site open it doesn't suck your battery empty.
Nov 05 14:24:36 <fredep> Hm still, I am considering a more convenient solution.
Nov 05 14:24:43 <fredep> Battery and all is not a problem.
Nov 05 14:24:47 <fredep> It is always plugged in when I am asleep.
Nov 05 14:24:50 <fredep> Next to my bed.
Nov 05 14:25:12 <fredep> Just need relaxing music as I fall asleep, and during sleep.
Nov 05 14:25:14 <SpeedEvil> It would be neat from a battery POV - youtube uses lots of power
Nov 05 14:25:37 <fredep> Well regardless, the implementation I have in mind would still just grab the Flash content and deal with it in a certain way.
Nov 05 14:25:49 <fredep> And I think the main point of process consumption, is that Flash content.
Nov 05 14:25:57 <fredep> Not the actual website, right?
Nov 05 14:27:31 <fredep> Or has YouTube began to provide some sort of ogg access / API / streaming?
Nov 05 14:27:31 <ShadowJK> lol
Nov 05 14:27:32 <DocScrutinizer> what's status of youtube on iPhone now?
Nov 05 14:27:32 <ShadowJK> youtube actively fights app developers :)
Nov 05 14:27:33 <fredep> Uh, did Apple not write an open letter about what they think about Adobe's Flash platform?
Nov 05 14:27:51 <fredep> http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
Nov 05 14:27:58 <DocScrutinizer> that's why I asked
Nov 05 14:28:07 <fredep> Steve Jobs, "New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind.".
Nov 05 14:28:16 <fredep> I hope they continue to fight against Flash.
Nov 05 14:28:29 <ShadowJK> iphone doesn't and has never had flash. It has used an app for youtube
Nov 05 14:28:34 <fredep> And hopefully, this will convince Google to focus on Theora for YouTube.
Nov 05 14:28:42 <DocScrutinizer> duh
Nov 05 14:28:45 <fredep> As they are very open minded using free things on other platforms (XMPP with Google Chat, etc.).
Nov 05 14:29:04 <ShadowJK> If theora wasn't so damn bad.. and if google didn't already have that vp8 thing, whatever it was called
Nov 05 14:29:16 <fredep> From what point of view would Theora be bad?
Nov 05 14:29:17 <dzho> oddly enough, many entities seem able to make their websites useable on iOS devices.
Nov 05 14:29:25 <fredep> So far, I have never really seen any trouble with it.
Nov 05 14:29:46 <dzho> when I access them with microb, though, I get this guff about needing to have flash.
Nov 05 14:29:51 <fredep> The freedom is there, and the compression does not seem that bad.
Nov 05 14:29:56 <dzho> a ver fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu   moment
Nov 05 14:30:00 <dzho> s/ver/very/
Nov 05 14:30:01 <infobot> dzho meant: a very fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu   moment
Nov 05 14:30:08 <dzho> botsnack
Nov 05 14:30:17 * dzho shrugs
Nov 05 14:30:29 * infobot shrugs too
Nov 05 14:30:53 * fredep goes to check out Maemo development documentation for basic development concepts.
Nov 05 14:31:16 <fredep> Oh, Maemo SDK, even better. :3
Nov 05 14:32:01 <fredep> Is the Maemo SDK entirely free?
Nov 05 14:32:11 <fredep> It might even be included in my distribution's repositories if that would be the case.
Nov 05 14:32:43 <SpeedEvil> No.
Nov 05 14:32:54 <fredep> Well, that is just, swell.
Nov 05 14:32:54 <SpeedEvil> There are closed binaries from nokia in it.
Nov 05 14:33:04 <ShadowJK> I guess if you don't agree to the EULA you don't get the binaries?
Nov 05 14:33:24 <DocScrutinizer> yes, exactly
Nov 05 14:33:35 <dzho> fredep: I know how you feel.
Nov 05 14:33:46 <fredep> Yeah, SpeedEvil as soon as my eyes crossed that "Nokia Binaries" part I started to doubt how free the SDK would be.
Nov 05 14:33:54 <fredep> Which made me quickly question it in here.
Nov 05 14:34:05 <ShadowJK> i don't think you actually need any of them
Nov 05 14:34:13 <DocScrutinizer> and I remember some weird stuff with placing an individual token/cert whatever somewhere in SB to get access to those binaries via apt-get
Nov 05 14:34:16 <ShadowJK> mostly for the "emulator" part I'd think?
Nov 05 14:34:29 <fredep> Well, regardless, I do not think there is a free Maemo SDK alternative, is there? It would be nice if I could just aptitude install thatmaemofreeshit on my distribution.
Nov 05 14:34:53 <fredep> I use Trisquel (trisquel.info), which is basically Ubuntu with all the non-free shit thrown out.
Nov 05 14:34:54 <dzho> fredep: it remains a dream, I think
Nov 05 14:35:16 <fredep> Well, if those non-free things are not really a dependency, I do not see how hard it would be to repackage it, without them, and throw it on the web.
Nov 05 14:35:18 <ShadowJK> ...
Nov 05 14:35:23 * SpeedEvil lols.
Nov 05 14:35:26 <ShadowJK> lol
Nov 05 14:35:40 <dzho> famous last words "how hard could it be?"
Nov 05 14:35:47 <ShadowJK> dude it's scratchbox, nothing is easy
Nov 05 14:36:03 <fredep> I have no experience with Maemo development, although I am interested, so excuses for any ignorant statements.
Nov 05 14:36:05 <fredep> At first sight.
Nov 05 14:36:13 <DocScrutinizer> du -hs /scratchbox -> 5.3G
Nov 05 14:36:22 <fredep> But I am going to familiarise myself with the available documentation at maemo.org.
Nov 05 14:36:34 <dzho> fredep: I think the most optimistic thing one could say about all this is that there remain huge opportunities :-)
Nov 05 14:36:37 <fredep> It being free is not that much of a priority, at least if I can make the applications I build for it, available under a free license.
Nov 05 14:37:03 <dzho> and that's how we get to the point of having many almost-free solutions
Nov 05 14:37:04 <fredep> Then I am happy.
Nov 05 14:37:17 <fredep> Also.
Nov 05 14:37:23 <ShadowJK> fredep, so when they created the "SDK", they first kidnapped a linux guy, a windows guy, and a steve jobs clone. Then they put them in specially designed chairs that constantly measure their level of disgust, pain and fear. The SDK was then carefully designed to produce the strongest disgust,pain and fear sensations in all 3 test subjects.
Nov 05 14:37:31 <ShadowJK> or well, scratchbox was
Nov 05 14:37:32 <fredep> I read some post about somebody loving N9 / W7 on maemo.org, what the fuck was that about?
Nov 05 14:37:33 <ShadowJK> :P
Nov 05 14:37:51 <fredep> Why would anyone think I want to read shit about Windows Phone on maemo.org?
Nov 05 14:38:05 <SpeedEvil> N9 is like n900 with all the ponies taken out.
Nov 05 14:38:10 <fredep> Can anyone just post bullshit they like at the maemo.org news section?
Nov 05 14:38:17 <SpeedEvil> yes
Nov 05 14:38:26 <fredep> Where do I report for removal. >:3
Nov 05 14:38:37 <SpeedEvil> click the down-thumb.
Nov 05 14:38:38 <ShadowJK> I think it's based on planet.maemo.org votes
Nov 05 14:38:40 <DocScrutinizer> ~tmo
Nov 05 14:38:40 <infobot> hmm... tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or trolls, morons, oxes
Nov 05 14:38:41 <fredep> Oh.
Nov 05 14:38:45 <fredep> The WP7 entry is already gone.
Nov 05 14:38:55 <ShadowJK> So it's like a collection of random people's RSS feeds
Nov 05 14:38:59 <fredep> I see.
Nov 05 14:39:00 <fredep> Hm.
Nov 05 14:39:16 <vdv> in qtcreator, i create a new mobile app, but i'm unable to select maemo/fremantle as target, is that normal? in screenshot from the tutorial it's shown
Nov 05 14:39:17 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-11-05 14:59:55] <DocScrutinizer> unrelated comment: tmo -> #post1116491  just WTF for > 1 mio posts on that forum :-o
Nov 05 14:39:48 <DocScrutinizer> you bet you see *all* $random staements and noise/BS in >10^6 posts
Nov 05 14:39:50 <fredep> I hope Maemo lives on for a long time, and Nokia should just release N900 blueprints considering they fuck up everything so other companies can continue with the N900 spirit if my N900 would ever die (hopefully, it will never die).
Nov 05 14:40:16 <fredep> I do not like N9, WP7 nor MeeGo (MeeGo, only having see the visual interface, put me off at first sight).
Nov 05 14:40:20 <dzho> may your usb port remain strong and true
Nov 05 14:40:33 <ShadowJK> which visual interface
Nov 05 14:40:36 <fredep> Is there a default way to take a screenshot of your Maemo environment?
Nov 05 14:40:42 <ShadowJK> ctrl-shift-p, iirc
Nov 05 14:40:42 <fredep> The general MeeGo interface.
Nov 05 14:40:51 <ShadowJK> fredep, are you talking about N9?
Nov 05 14:41:06 <fredep> N9, WP7 device, yes.
Nov 05 14:41:13 <fredep> But that is no MeeGo.
Nov 05 14:41:19 <fredep> I am not sure if anything is MeeGo to be honest.
Nov 05 14:41:22 <psycho_oreos> N9 is not a WP7 device
Nov 05 14:41:24 <fredep> With what has happened.
Nov 05 14:41:26 <fredep> It is not?
Nov 05 14:41:47 <ShadowJK> N9 is more like Maemo 6 Harmattan.. which marketing calls MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan... which is different from "real" MeeGo..
Nov 05 14:42:27 <psycho_oreos> and if its a WP7 device, you'd see the infamous windows logo on the bottom of the screen
Nov 05 14:42:40 <fredep> I only really read the news about what Nokia is doing, I never really got down to what actually happens behind the scenes regarding Maemo, or MeeGo, I just skimmed through little bits, of guides being available to MeeGo your N900, and all.
Nov 05 14:42:51 <fredep> I see.
Nov 05 14:43:29 <fredep> But one thing I do know is, I love my N900, I love Maemo, and if my N900 would die, I can only hope I could get it somewhere new (dislike second hand).
Nov 05 14:43:37 <fredep> N900 spoiled me rotten.
Nov 05 14:43:40 * ShadowJK has two N900, in case the infamous USB port decides to eject itself, or in case the modem stops working
Nov 05 14:43:49 <fredep> That actually is a bright idea.
Nov 05 14:43:52 * psycho_oreos has three
Nov 05 14:43:56 <fredep> Buying a few and stocking them on the attic. :x
Nov 05 14:44:14 <ShadowJK> My N900 #1 died the modem death
Nov 05 14:44:22 <ShadowJK> aka "Crossed out SIM icon" death
Nov 05 14:44:24 <fredep> I have had my N900 since 2009 I believe, still working fine to date.
Nov 05 14:44:40 <fredep> With the exception of the recharger cable breaking down.
Nov 05 14:44:43 <fredep> And having lost the touch pen. :L
Nov 05 14:44:46 <fredep> It works fine. x3
Nov 05 14:45:08 <psycho_oreos> ShadowJK, I suppose you could have used that N900 as just a pure internet tablet, like 770, N8x0 series
Nov 05 14:45:30 <fredep> ShadowJK, how did that even happen, you are scaring me with these stories. =(
Nov 05 14:45:41 <fredep> What did you do to get broken SIM slot?
Nov 05 14:46:24 * fredep hugs his N900 and whispers, "do not worry, it is all just mythological, do not listen to him"
Nov 05 14:46:41 <ShadowJK> It's not the sim slot breaking, it's probably the modem desoldering itself or something like that
Nov 05 14:46:54 <ShadowJK> or silicon rot
Nov 05 14:46:55 <fredep> Did you overclock it or do anything special?
Nov 05 14:46:57 <ShadowJK> nope
Nov 05 14:47:25 <fredep> Hm, neat, did not know about the screenshot taking feature.
Nov 05 14:47:33 <fredep> Should take some screenshots in a bit when I got my desktop ready. :3
Nov 05 14:47:34 <psycho_oreos> I thought changing the SIM card numerous times could have affected the SIM slot
Nov 05 14:47:52 <ShadowJK> It's not a problem with the sim slot
Nov 05 14:48:03 <fredep> Does anyone know where you can still buy new N900 devices.
Nov 05 14:48:03 <psycho_oreos> ahh its the actual modem
Nov 05 14:48:10 <fredep> I really feel like getting another one just in-case.
Nov 05 14:48:12 <fredep> Or two...
Nov 05 14:48:15 <ShadowJK> fredep, they're not made anymore
Nov 05 14:48:24 <fredep> Yeah, but certain stores might still have some on stock.
Nov 05 14:48:42 <ShadowJK> i think Macer ordered one from hongkong on ebay
Nov 05 14:48:45 <SpeedEvil> Fairly unlikely.
Nov 05 14:48:46 <psycho_oreos> even if they do they may not be available locally or have their own websites
Nov 05 14:48:49 <fredep> Or is the Nokia N9 not that bad?
Nov 05 14:48:56 <ShadowJK> no it's bad
Nov 05 14:48:57 <ShadowJK> :P
Nov 05 14:49:00 <SpeedEvil> It's been ~6mo since they stopped selling it at all.
Nov 05 14:49:24 <fredep> Amazon has some new ones available.
Nov 05 14:49:28 <fredep> (US Amazon)
Nov 05 14:49:32 * fredep checks Amazon UK
Nov 05 14:49:33 <ShadowJK> N9 has no keyboard, has no bluetooth keyboard support, and it has the security nazi framework to prevent you from installing stuff and modifying stuff :D
Nov 05 14:49:38 <fredep> Oh wow.
Nov 05 14:49:45 <fredep> Yeah, you convinced me at the "has no keyboard" part.
Nov 05 14:49:47 <psycho_oreos> if you'll excuse the lack of hardware keyboard, the no microSDHC slot and no interchangeable batteries. The N9 may just be slightly superior if you could somehow bypass aegis (maybe with running real MeeGo for instance)
Nov 05 14:50:03 <fredep> One of the most important things to me is the keyboard.
Nov 05 14:50:09 <fredep> The software turning out to be so lovely, was an extra.
Nov 05 14:50:34 <ShadowJK> If aegis didn't exist I might consider buying N9, just to put in the drawer as backup for the day that both my N900 have died :/
Nov 05 14:50:37 <fredep> There are two new N900s available on Amazon.
Nov 05 14:50:38 <fredep> Hm.
Nov 05 14:50:50 <fredep> One store just launched, do not really trust.
Nov 05 14:50:58 <fredep> Another store has 100% positive feedback from 18 entries.
Nov 05 14:51:05 <ShadowJK> But really, right now N9 has too much "fuck you" attitude towards the consumer that I'm not at all interested
Nov 05 14:51:19 <DocScrutinizer> and who was the first to warn you all about "aegis is hell spawn"?
Nov 05 14:51:24 <fredep> Does anyone else think, Nokia, really, really, fucked up, on such a significant scale, by ditching the N900?
Nov 05 14:51:38 <SpeedEvil> fredep: Nope.
Nov 05 14:51:41 <fredep> Why not?
Nov 05 14:51:46 <psycho_oreos> If N9 did have hardware keyboard, I wouldn't have hesitated in buying one. The rest of the issues I could sort of shrug it off.. but without hardware keyboard it pisses me off.. and no bluetooth keyboard support is pure fail
Nov 05 14:51:48 <fredep> I think it is a godly device.
Nov 05 14:51:48 <SpeedEvil> The fuckups started about 3 months into the n900s sales.
Nov 05 14:52:00 <SpeedEvil> With the ovi store screwups.
Nov 05 14:52:05 <fredep> Sure, it is a high priced device, but the money I spent on it, all worth it.
Nov 05 14:52:09 <psycho_oreos> and that N900 was released late
Nov 05 14:52:11 <fredep> Yeah, well, those are things that could have been prevented.
Nov 05 14:52:16 <fredep> But dumping it, instead of fixing it,...
Nov 05 14:52:21 <psycho_oreos> no hostmode out of the box by default
Nov 05 14:52:27 <fredep> Hm.
Nov 05 14:52:47 <psycho_oreos> that's Flop for you
Nov 05 14:53:05 <SpeedEvil> Elop wasn't the problem.
Nov 05 14:53:11 <SpeedEvil> It went wrong well before Elop.
Nov 05 14:54:17 <psycho_oreos> Flop basically was hired and he killed maemo platform, killed symbian (almost). Then N950 was crippled and given free to selected developers whilst the rest gets N9. Cripples N9 and sells it in certain countries. Makes WP7 device that looks very similar to N9
Nov 05 14:54:34 <fredep> Hm.
Nov 05 14:54:40 <psycho_oreos> nokia board of directors were smoking crack. They wouldn't give two shits anyway
Nov 05 14:54:48 <fredep> Well no matter how much they fucked up with N900 / Maemo, I still really love it to this day.
Nov 05 14:55:23 <fredep> I really was a Samsung guy (liked the way their models looked), not really too fond of Nokia, but then the N900 came along, and I liked it a lot, the design, the keyboard, the software, and got it, regardless of the price tag.
Nov 05 14:55:52 <Guest40473> im just waiting for tizen/samsung to bring desktop linux back to phones.   or meltemi.
Nov 05 14:56:18 <fredep> So do you guys think it would be a good idea to buy one of the last available new N900s from Amazon?
Nov 05 14:56:20 <Guest40473> or ubuntu to magically get partners, like they didnt manage with tablets.
Nov 05 14:56:25 <fredep> There is only one left from a reliable store on Amazon UK.
Nov 05 14:56:37 <Guest40473> fredep: i like mine, bought recently.
Nov 05 14:56:39 <fredep> I do not give a shit about the 400 pounds price tag.
Nov 05 14:56:45 <fredep> Well, I have an N900 too.
Nov 05 14:56:47 <Guest40473> it just baarely replaced my n810
Nov 05 14:56:48 <fredep> But, one day it might die...
Nov 05 14:56:50 <fredep> I want it again.
Nov 05 14:57:01 <fredep> I have had my N900 since 2009.
Nov 05 14:57:07 <ShadowJK> though I guess the real attraction of having desktop linux on phone is that a) you can have all the apps you need, b) when the manufacturer abandons the device, it's not a 14-man-month task to get the browser back to compatibility with facebook again :P
Nov 05 14:57:09 <fredep> And, I would be lost if it would die on me.
Nov 05 14:57:17 <Guest40473> im not sure it's *that* nice.. :P
Nov 05 14:57:23 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: what are the top screwups hw side on N900 design on your list, I mean what are the things Nokia shall fix on a N900i ? (please no major changes! So no "get multitouch" etc)
Nov 05 14:57:25 <fredep> It iisssss.
Nov 05 14:58:06 <Guest40473> i would have preferred the n900 hardware in an 810 form factor
Nov 05 14:58:38 <psycho_oreos> I wouldn't know if amazon sellers do sell N900 new or is it some sort of `technically new' term
Nov 05 14:58:41 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, they could fix the USB. Clock battery. Figure out why the modem dies, or put in a new one. Refresh to latest omap3, gigabyte of memory.
Nov 05 14:58:44 <psycho_oreos> or if there's just scammers
Nov 05 14:59:04 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: good list, thanks
Nov 05 14:59:54 <psycho_oreos> s/there's/they're/
Nov 05 14:59:55 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: or if they're just scammers
Nov 05 15:00:33 <Guest40473> 'new' as in unopened maybe.
Nov 05 15:01:03 <psycho_oreos> or unused, but the case was opened and resealed to make it look like new :þ
Nov 05 15:01:29 <Guest40473> or that.
Nov 05 15:01:29 <psycho_oreos> or probably used once or twice before it was cleaned up and put back into the case, and resealed
Nov 05 15:02:33 <Guest40473> if n900 dies, i'll just go back to tablet+phone.
Nov 05 15:02:46 <fredep> Has anyone ever considered purchasing the N900 schematics and rights off of Nokia?
Nov 05 15:02:54 <fredep> Or has nobody ever gone that extreme?
Nov 05 15:02:55 <Guest40473> only get a nice new linux tab, instead of n810
Nov 05 15:03:03 <psycho_oreos> fredep, you can download a leaked copy of the schematics
Nov 05 15:03:08 <fredep> No, no.
Nov 05 15:03:33 <fredep> I am actually thinking, of legally, buying them, community improving them, and open it up for manufacturers to freely manufacture them.
Nov 05 15:03:51 <ShadowJK> Something liek a gta04 for N900 would be interesting ;p
Nov 05 15:03:54 <psycho_oreos> consider forking out millions, if not billions
Nov 05 15:04:01 <fredep> Hm.
Nov 05 15:04:03 <DocScrutinizer> fredep: schematics are available. Buying the rights is sth nobody ever done I guess
Nov 05 15:04:04 <fredep> Yeah, I considered that.
Nov 05 15:04:13 <fredep> But I also considered, if somebody before me, thought about it, and gotten anywhere with that idea.
Nov 05 15:04:43 <ShadowJK> N900 also has some nokia-only parts that a) are not made anymore b) they dont sell to third parties anyway
Nov 05 15:05:37 <DocScrutinizer> fredep: also you won't get BB5 modem that simply, esp in a range of 100 < N < 100.000
Nov 05 15:05:39 <fredep> If that would be possible, if somebody could pull it off, rebrand it, turn it both, hardwarematically and softwarematically, into a fully free device, for any manufacturer to develope, manfacture and distribute (under the license of sharing alike, maintain the freedom, that was given to you, in your derivative work), then that would be one wicked collaboration started right there.
Nov 05 15:06:00 <DocScrutinizer> or what ShadowJK said :-D
Nov 05 15:06:51 <fredep> You do not need any of the hardware that it holds.
Nov 05 15:07:14 <psycho_oreos> fredep, there were talks about that at numerous stages in both this chan and on the tmo threads. However nobody has done anything considering its not an easy job let alone finding a decent manufacturer which won't charge you an arm and a leg
Nov 05 15:07:26 <fredep> If you could just obtain the rights and schematics, and open up a community collaboration to change, replace and improve the existing schematics, and open it up for manufacturers to freely manufacture it, that would do.
Nov 05 15:07:31 <DocScrutinizer> fredep: oh not?
Nov 05 15:07:35 <fredep> Indeed.
Nov 05 15:07:43 <Guest40473> i dont think it would be worth it. n900 hardware is fairly limited. everything is licensed
Nov 05 15:07:44 <fredep> I would not even envision being able to pull that off with simple email communications.
Nov 05 15:07:51 <Guest40473> contrast with freerunner neo
Nov 05 15:07:52 <fredep> You would actually have to know some people within Nokia, and go down to Finland.
Nov 05 15:07:57 <Guest40473> can n900 run hostapd?
Nov 05 15:08:01 <psycho_oreos> no
Nov 05 15:08:11 <fredep> I had a Neo Freerunner once, did not like it, software and hardware, were inconvenient to use.
Nov 05 15:08:21 <Guest40473> but, it is a much more open platform
Nov 05 15:08:33 <fredep> The thought about the freedom was nice, the usability, as a device to use daily, was lacking, and was not something that could be quickly turned over.
Nov 05 15:08:44 <ShadowJK> Guest40473, most of the circuit board components can actually be purchased, except for the modem
Nov 05 15:08:51 <Guest40473> n900 was just a 'good enough' platform that received sponsorship and attention from someone in to make a buck
Nov 05 15:09:20 <DocScrutinizer> fredep: let developer of neo FR tell you it won't fly
Nov 05 15:09:33 <fredep> What wont fly?
Nov 05 15:09:41 <psycho_oreos> open N900
Nov 05 15:09:41 <fredep> My Neo FreeRunner could fly.
Nov 05 15:09:43 <ThreeM> neo freerunner
Nov 05 15:09:51 <fredep> Although it did not have a measurement application of how high it went like my N900.
Nov 05 15:09:55 <fredep> :U
Nov 05 15:10:31 <psycho_oreos> I'd hate to see what happens if you manage to not catch the device once it lands
Nov 05 15:10:35 <fredep> xD
Nov 05 15:10:39 <psycho_oreos> *smash* oh sh*t
Nov 05 15:10:41 <psycho_oreos> :þ
Nov 05 15:10:48 <fredep> To be honest I just giggled and moved on when I saw that application in the repository.
Nov 05 15:10:59 <fredep> I thought it was some Nokia incentive to break N900's so more would be purchased. :V
Nov 05 15:11:27 <fredep> I did not have any crazy urges to install that and throw my N900 up as high as I could. :3
Nov 05 15:11:29 <psycho_oreos> I think that program was curiously questioned and I think it was sort of an unanimous conclusion that it was mainly for those who do skydiving with their N900
Nov 05 15:11:43 <DocScrutinizer> as you can see from my prev post (>>[2011-11-05 15:57:16] <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: what are the top screwups hw side on N900 design<<) I'm pondering a different approach right ATM
Nov 05 15:13:34 <DocScrutinizer> indeed N900fly can measure height of jumps as well
Nov 05 15:14:13 <DocScrutinizer>  or how deep you jumped (by multiplying the value by 2)
Nov 05 15:14:45 <DocScrutinizer> won't work for skydivers though as on reaching steady speed there's no free-fall state anymore
Nov 05 15:15:02 <Guest40473> biggest hardware screwups.  no usb-host mode, closed baseband, no driver support for wifi ap-mode, no electronic compass or gyroscopes.
Nov 05 15:15:27 <DocScrutinizer> ok, thanks. next
Nov 05 15:15:57 <psycho_oreos> Guest40473, no driver support for wifi ap-mode is not nokia's fault directly, its more of Ti's fault which was concluded by a few tmo members that its a firmware bug that prohibits AP mode
Nov 05 15:16:06 <Guest40473> ofono patches were nice, but not 18 mo later and still in a state no one can use.
Nov 05 15:16:28 <Guest40473> that makes it Nokia's fault for going with that chip
Nov 05 15:16:32 <DocScrutinizer> hostmode: FIXED, baseband: WONTFIX, wifi: WONTFIX, compass and gyro... errr
Nov 05 15:16:35 <psycho_oreos> Guest40473, wl1271 (on N950/N9) has AP mode but wl1251 (on N900) doesn't ironically. Ti never bothered to fix their shit.. just like that ACX1XX case with linux
Nov 05 15:17:34 <Guest40473> im not sure i can think of another hardware 'screwup'
Nov 05 15:17:39 <Guest40473> oh
Nov 05 15:17:47 <Guest40473> no 2mm nokia charging jack :P
Nov 05 15:18:00 <Guest40473> kickstand blows, n810 much better
Nov 05 15:18:25 <psycho_oreos> in fact we should be a little more thankful that nokia at that point in time hired K. Valo to write up a linux driver support for wl1251, otherwise we'd probably be stuck with some proprietary Ti blob with even less features
Nov 05 15:18:36 <Guest40473> n810 generally had a superior feel in hand. the 3" formfactor was a mistake in n900
Nov 05 15:19:40 <DocScrutinizer> well, that's not what I was asking at least
Nov 05 15:20:44 <DocScrutinizer> I'm more about to wonder how many devices it needs to reach break even on ramping up manufacturing line again
Nov 05 15:20:48 <flux> btw, are there QtQuick-able Qt binaries around for n810?
Nov 05 15:21:06 <Macer> i guess i should be thankful there is a google voice plugin at all
Nov 05 15:21:09 <Macer> but wow is it horrible :)
Nov 05 15:21:31 <Macer> does it just poll for new txts?
Nov 05 15:21:42 <Macer> and is there a way to disable the talking features?
Nov 05 15:21:44 * DocScrutinizer wishes konttori was around
Nov 05 15:21:47 <Macer> and only use it for txting? :)
Nov 05 15:22:09 <Macer> gvoice is just as bad as a power whore as skype is on this n900
Nov 05 15:22:18 <Macer> it is totally murdering the battery
Nov 05 15:22:19 <yigal> is anyone has anyone set up Monav http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74791 http://code.google.com/p/monav/ both client and daemon.  I have a VPS that I'm thinking of using to preprocess certain maps as a daemon and of course use the client for routing but I was wondering if anyone had experience doing this?
Nov 05 15:22:29 <Guest40473> really? you mean theonering plugin?
Nov 05 15:22:38 <Guest40473> im not sure i've noticed any problems with it
Nov 05 15:22:49 <Guest40473> i keep it in 'away' status constantly
Nov 05 15:23:10 <Macer> does keeping it in "away" allow you to receive txts still while turning off the call features?
Nov 05 15:23:21 <Macer> theonering plugin? :)
Nov 05 15:23:24 <Guest40473> no, but it saves battery life (per the instructions)
Nov 05 15:23:44 <luke-jr> Macer: I repurposed my N810 to a GPS/Wifi mapper
Nov 05 15:24:34 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: this kind of IM apps with presence and whatnot always tend to cut thru your battery, just skype is the worst of all due to even abusing your device as a relay, by skype design
Nov 05 15:25:00 <Macer> Guest40473: instructions?
Nov 05 15:25:02 <Macer> where are they?
Nov 05 15:27:27 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: gtalk seems to do rather well on the n900
Nov 05 15:27:29 <Macer> compared to gvoice
Nov 05 15:28:08 <Macer> not to mention the way the gvoice plugin adds things to your contacts
Nov 05 15:28:42 <Macer> if a contact has a phone number... gvoice adds "call and sms" options... and when you use the sms option... the person's number is only displayed and not their contact icon or name
Nov 05 15:28:49 <Macer> unless you merge it
Nov 05 15:28:57 <Macer> then you have "google voice IM" added to the contact
Nov 05 15:29:02 <Macer> this seems rather redundant
Nov 05 15:29:51 <DocScrutinizer> sorry can't comment, I use SIP and proper high quality GSM calls only, as voice is a premium service for me and I'm not interested in using shitty g* (also it starts with g* ;-P, like gmail, gconf, gnome...)
Nov 05 15:30:36 <neal> DocScrutinizer: haha
Nov 05 15:31:54 <DocScrutinizer> I basically can call via proper plain old telephone to any location on this earth for as little as 1ct/min, why should I be interested in using flaky inferior quality services
Nov 05 15:33:28 <DocScrutinizer> on mobile I'm at ~10ct/min but then on mobile it's neigh impossible to get good quality via those "free" services like skype etc
Nov 05 15:33:46 <DocScrutinizer> so again, whyt's the use of that crap?
Nov 05 15:33:58 <DocScrutinizer> what's*
Nov 05 15:46:45 <ZogG> hey anyone knows program in C working with dbus, want to check code
Nov 05 15:48:09 <neal> ZogG: What do you want to do?
Nov 05 15:48:35 <neal> ZogG: You could check Woodchuck: http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/woodchuck/src/
Nov 05 15:48:44 <neal> ZogG: It does a lot with dbus
Nov 05 15:49:09 <ZogG> neal all i need to send dbus signal from my app with data
Nov 05 15:49:23 <ZogG> actually i want to display something on rds
Nov 05 15:49:37 <ZogG> i would be glad if you can help me
Nov 05 15:49:45 <neal> what are 'rds'?
Nov 05 15:50:23 <neal> http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/woodchuck/src/branches/master/src/murmeltier.c.raw.html
Nov 05 15:50:24 <ZogG> neal it's the radio display
Nov 05 15:50:29 <neal> zogg: Look at around 415
Nov 05 15:50:51 <ZogG> i have more stupid question
Nov 05 15:51:46 <ZogG> wait, i'll trying to find answer myself =)
Nov 05 15:53:04 <ZogG> neal i'm compiling it with makefile
Nov 05 15:53:32 <ZogG> 1st time i do it manually, or even truly i use one from other program my based on..
Nov 05 15:54:10 <ZogG> all mentions i see of libs are in main.c with include blah blah blah
Nov 05 15:54:21 <ZogG> when i add dbus it doesn't give me to compile
Nov 05 15:54:51 <ZogG> found
Nov 05 15:54:53 <ZogG> my mistake
Nov 05 16:01:41 <ZogG> neal around here?
Nov 05 16:01:56 <neal> ZogG: What do you mean?
Nov 05 16:02:44 <ZogG> let me post it
Nov 05 16:02:51 <ZogG> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/503341/
Nov 05 16:03:19 <ZogG> neal you see dbus part?
Nov 05 16:03:59 <neal> you're missing a space between:  $(DBUS_LDFLAGS)$(OBJECTS)
Nov 05 16:04:17 <ZogG> Package dbus was not found in the pkg-config search path.
Nov 05 16:04:17 <ZogG> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `dbus.pc'
Nov 05 16:04:18 <ZogG> to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
Nov 05 16:04:18 <ZogG> No package 'dbus' found
Nov 05 16:04:18 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: lmao! i use it for txting
Nov 05 16:04:29 <Macer> because unfortunately most women do not want to use gtalk on their iphones :-P
Nov 05 16:04:47 <neal> ZogG: do you have the dev packages isntalled?
Nov 05 16:04:51 <Macer> they would rather pay an extra $10-20 for unlimited txts which still rake in like 50000% profit to the network charging them for it
Nov 05 16:05:13 <ZogG> $ locate dbus.h
Nov 05 16:05:13 <ZogG> /usr/include/dbus-1.0/dbus/dbus.h
Nov 05 16:05:16 <ZogG> neal, ^
Nov 05 16:06:47 <Macer> i refuse to pay for txting women when i'm already paying for dinner
Nov 05 16:07:13 <Macer> i wish maemo had G+ sharing :/
Nov 05 16:07:25 <Macer> i suppose it DOES have a picasa plugin
Nov 05 16:07:59 <ZogG> neal i think so
Nov 05 16:09:47 <Macer> ARGH
Nov 05 16:09:56 <Macer> and now the plugin has made gvoice contacts again
Nov 05 16:12:11 <Macer> now i have to rm all these fking gvoice contacts
Nov 05 16:15:08 * DocScrutinizer stutters "backup" while laughing
Nov 05 16:17:02 <ZogG> neal ?
Nov 05 16:18:29 <vdv> i'm trying to launch qt project in simulator from qt sdk, but get following: Assertion »intel->is_g4x || (tile_x == 0 && tile_y == 0)« failed. Is it related to OpenGL?
Nov 05 16:23:33 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: well.. it works fine on an android phone :)
Nov 05 16:23:34 <Macer> heh
Nov 05 16:47:54 <ZogG> neal, i think i figured it out, can you check something?
Nov 05 16:48:00 <ZogG> neal, http://dpaste.org/LI13R/
Nov 05 16:48:40 <neal> seems ok
Nov 05 16:48:51 <ZogG> neal the part of sending is right?
Nov 05 16:49:40 <neal> it's a bit strange
Nov 05 16:49:50 <neal> you want the name of your signal to be something like "artist"
Nov 05 16:49:57 <neal> and have it carry a payload
Nov 05 16:50:13 <neal> making the name of the artist the payload is unusual
Nov 05 16:50:19 <neal> and likely unusable
Nov 05 16:50:35 <neal> if the number of values that artist takes on is large
Nov 05 16:51:41 <neal> you like want to do dbus_message_append_args
Nov 05 16:51:46 <neal> http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/api/html/group__DBusMessage.html#ga591f3aab5dd2c87e56e05423c2a671d9
Nov 05 16:51:55 <neal> http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/api/html/group__DBusMessage.html#ga591f3aab5dd2c87e56e05423c2a671d9
Nov 05 16:52:05 <neal> whoops, sorry about the double paste
Nov 05 16:55:15 <fredep> http://ompldr.org/vYjU2Yg/fredwp-rawr-mobile-device.png
Nov 05 16:55:17 <fredep> Nom nom.
Nov 05 17:04:34 <hakkattakk> nice theme fredep
Nov 05 17:06:15 <Guest40473> Macer: http://wiki.maemo.org/The_One_Ring
Nov 05 17:06:17 <Guest40473> "Setting of presence: Available, Away (check for messages less often), and Do Not Disturb (disables in-bound phone calls) "
Nov 05 17:06:19 <Guest40473> "Basic features:
Nov 05 17:06:23 <Guest40473>     Support for GV Contacts w/ names
Nov 05 17:06:25 <Guest40473>         Can be disabled by setting the contact polling time to -1 "
Nov 05 17:06:36 <fredep> I am using erm.
Nov 05 17:06:45 <Guest40473> i think it was a changelog entry that first was like: "yo dog, set your status to away and battery consumption will suck less"
Nov 05 17:07:05 <fredep> Array theme and AwOken icon theme, both available in the regular repository.
Nov 05 17:07:44 <fredep> Then I am using the following background: http://www.n900wallpapers.com/wallpaper/eos-remix
Nov 05 17:07:55 <fredep> Which, would result in the above desktop.
Nov 05 17:08:22 <fredep> Oh, yeah, I modified the background, I opened it in GIMP and put the mode on grey scale, and saved it.
Nov 05 17:08:30 <fredep> That is all.
Nov 05 17:09:37 <fredep> I also modified theme settings to change the (in my opinion), not so pretty green on Active Text to blue, and using fast window transition (why is this not used by default??, not only prettier, but also faster window transition).
Nov 05 17:11:34 <Guest40473> Macer: there we go  http://maemo.org/packages/view/telepathy-theonering/   a 'feature' in the apt-cache show description. just about as close to 'does what it says on the box' as you can get
Nov 05 17:20:12 <fredep> Could anyone tell me, why the option which theme customiser provides, "Faster window transition", is not enabled by default in Maemo CSSU?
Nov 05 17:20:17 <fredep> It is faster, and prettier.
Nov 05 17:20:26 <fredep> Is it perhaps unstable or so?
Nov 05 17:48:52 <Robot101> I'm sure its not more unstable - in the run up the N900 release the product managers were changing their mind about the transition speeds / timings / effects / etc every day
Nov 05 17:48:59 <Robot101> which is why we made transitions.ini in the end
Nov 05 17:59:31 <ZogG> neal changed it but still not sure =) used examples here and there to understand
Nov 05 18:39:23 <Rioting_Pacifist> I keep getting the error "SU_GET_UPDATE_STATUS_REQ terminated with error code 1", when trying to flash the VANILLA image, it looks like the n900 is just booting up and not going into flashing mode , is there any way to fix that?
Nov 05 18:42:43 <andre__> which OS? with which command?
Nov 05 18:48:05 <Rioting_Pacifist> linux kubuntu 64bit flasher-3.5
Nov 05 18:48:47 <Rioting_Pacifist> don#t have an alternative os to use but it definelty looks like the phone is just booting up not in flash mode
Nov 05 19:04:05 <_rd> My GPS takes a long time to get my location on the n900, although I enabled cell tower positioning with the supl.nokia.com server.
Nov 05 19:04:26 <_rd> Is anybody else seeing this, did the server name change or do I even have broken hardware?
Nov 05 19:07:42 <NIN101> afaik some people changed to supl.google.com afer some issues...
Nov 05 19:08:34 <Rioting_Pacifist> any ideas for ways to to a emmc flash without using plain flasher as it keeps failing?
Nov 05 19:08:35 <bindi> yup 
Nov 05 19:08:38 <bindi> supl.nokia.com no workie
Nov 05 19:08:43 <bindi> fixed with supl.google.com
Nov 05 19:26:44 <Rioting_Pacifist> can i get root on an n900 without installing anything?
Nov 05 19:38:02 <Guest40473> yep
Nov 05 19:38:14 <Guest40473> attach USB cable, use nokia flasher to --enable-rd-mode
Nov 05 19:38:20 <Guest40473> then you can run sudo gainroot on stock tablet
Nov 05 19:38:46 <Guest40473> otherwise you must install one of the several simple gainroot scripts from the repos
Nov 05 19:39:57 <NIN101> Rioting_Pacifist: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62783 seems the guy in this thread had the same problem and it was solved.
Nov 05 19:44:42 <Rioting_Pacifist> thanks Guest40473, turned that on now hopefully if flashing fails i can just format the mmc as required from the rootfs
Nov 05 19:48:30 <Guest40473> no probs. keep in mind R&D mode may increase battery useage by eg:disabling the processor watchdog, extra blinking lights, etc.
Nov 05 19:48:48 <Guest40473> might want to --disable-rd-mode & install rootsh from extras when you're done.
Nov 05 19:55:49 <Rioting_Pacifist> ok now i broke initfs \o/ google is failing me is there an easy way to flash nolo to pass the default initfs to the kernel?
Nov 05 19:59:08 <NIN101> initfs && maemo? 
Nov 05 20:01:53 <Rioting_Pacifist> when it boots it says no initfs \o/ then froze but it seems to be booting now, perhaps meamo doesn't have an initfs thats what the \o/ is for?
Nov 05 20:03:11 <NIN101> it hasn't.
Nov 05 20:03:45 <Rioting_Pacifist> seems to have booted I'll run through that fix you found thanks
Nov 05 21:02:44 <Rioting_Pacifist> is the main memory in the screen or the keyboard half of the n900?
Nov 05 21:03:52 <Guest40473> keyboard, i'd be sure.
Nov 05 21:04:52 <Guest40473> screen's going to be only display/digitizer module, sensors, speaker & possibly an antenna.
Nov 05 21:05:17 <Guest40473> *forget that, antenna's are all going to be in the plastic main body. unlikely any are crammed around that thin top part
Nov 05 21:06:22 <SpeedEvil> yeah.
Nov 05 21:06:31 <SpeedEvil> 'all' the circuitry is in the base.
Nov 05 21:09:10 <Rioting_Pacifist> thanks, it's just that my problems started when i started switching screens and now it seems nothing can read the main memory at all
Nov 05 21:18:02 <SpeedEvil> By main memory, do you mean the EMMC?
Nov 05 21:20:46 <RiotingPacifist`> SpeedEvil: yes sorry keep dropping off due to bad conenction
Nov 05 21:20:54 <SpeedEvil> :/
Nov 05 21:21:20 <SpeedEvil> There was someone who was writing a FAQ on how to get your n900 working again from SD - I don't think they've got it quite finished yet.
Nov 05 21:36:50 <RiotingPacifist`> wait after a whole day of trying evrything i switched the screens work and BAMM it flashed and is now working :D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D thanks to everybody who helped Guest40473 NIN101 SpeedEvil and anybody who tried to help when i got dropped due to rubbish wifi i love you guys! :D:D:DD
Nov 05 21:43:11 <NIN101> gz
Nov 05 22:10:20 <SpeedEvil> Rioting_Pacifist: :)
Nov 05 22:16:24 * SpeedEvil wants a waterproof n900.
Nov 05 22:17:12 <SpeedEvil> Or more accurately, splashproof.
Nov 05 22:17:33 <SpeedEvil> I'm happy if it dies if I drop it in water, but I want to be able to use it with wet hands.
Nov 05 22:35:19 <jacekowski> i used my n900 with wet hands in rain
Nov 05 22:35:27 <jacekowski> and it was finally usb port that killed it
Nov 05 22:36:59 <SpeedEvil> And yes.
Nov 05 22:38:30 <Cor-Ai> jacekowski: same here :/
Nov 05 22:38:32 <psycho_oreos> there's many orifices on N900 :)
Nov 05 22:39:39 <jack_lt> what is the default app on the n900 to open pictures like gif? Can I start it from the terminal? Other suggestions for an picture viewer?
Nov 05 22:53:13 <DocScrutinizer> it's called "gallery" and I think you can click on *.gif in filemanager and it will open the picture in gallery
Nov 05 22:53:35 <jack_lt> ok I see
Nov 05 22:53:42 <jack_lt> and from command line?
Nov 05 22:53:46 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Nov 05 22:53:49 <DocScrutinizer> dunno
Nov 05 22:54:04 <DocScrutinizer> probably some dbus-send magic
Nov 05 22:54:42 <DocScrutinizer> possibly sth to open the "URL" file://path/to/my.gif in *browser*
Nov 05 22:54:43 <jack_lt> hmm it should be simple stupid, but it isn't
Nov 05 22:55:24 <jack_lt> strange to me that you can't launch an app via terminaĺ
Nov 05 22:55:50 <DocScrutinizer> you can, but for some apps they don't take cmdline parameters
Nov 05 22:55:57 <DocScrutinizer> e.g notes
Nov 05 22:56:05 <jack_lt> ok
Nov 05 22:56:07 <DocScrutinizer> a real PITA
Nov 05 22:56:14 <jack_lt> right
Nov 05 22:56:51 <jack_lt> anyway, I really love this device
Nov 05 22:57:03 <DocScrutinizer> I wondered for weeks and months how to get a simple shopping list using notes and a file with fixed name, and a desktop shortcut. Impossible
Nov 05 22:57:05 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
Nov 05 22:57:27 <jack_lt> hm
Nov 05 22:59:18 <jack_lt> hm no 'desktop icon' for gallery?
Nov 05 23:00:41 <psycho_oreos> /usr/share/applications/hildon/image-viewer.desktop
Nov 05 23:01:47 <jack_lt> ok  image viewer
Nov 05 23:01:49 <jack_lt> I see
Nov 05 23:02:00 <jack_lt> :)
Nov 05 23:02:16 <jack_lt> you could use evince to see those from terminal
Nov 05 23:02:30 <jack_lt> it opens gif files at least
Nov 05 23:08:30 <jack_lt> http://nokia-n900.com/guitarist-helper-guitar-chords-for-nokia-n900/
Nov 05 23:08:49 <jack_lt> hm cant find that app
Nov 05 23:10:27 <jack_lt> hm exra dev
Nov 06 00:11:27 <psycho_oreos> ahh fsck PEBKAC error: multitasking with many linux nodes and issued right set of commands to the wrong target (converting an existing ext3 partition with ext3 when its supposed to be vfat to ext3). More joy when it comes to recovery *ugh*
Nov 06 00:12:31 <valentin2> hi guys
Nov 06 00:12:48 <psycho_oreos> hai
Nov 06 00:13:54 <SpeedEvil> hai!
Nov 06 00:14:01 <valentin2> i havn't found anyone online in the UI channel, so i thought it's better showing my idea in this channel
Nov 06 00:14:23 <valentin2> http://vale2k7.deviantart.com/
Nov 06 00:15:00 <SpeedEvil> Looks interesting.
Nov 06 00:15:17 <valentin2> thx
Nov 06 00:15:37 <SpeedEvil> I question how much you can do with the existing framework though. Is it just straight to the existing apps?
Nov 06 00:15:39 <valentin2> do you have any experiance in coding and stuff?
Nov 06 00:16:00 <valentin2> yep, just with the existing apps
Nov 06 00:16:22 <SpeedEvil> If I was as good a brain surgeon as a coder, I can just about perform a lobotomy.
Nov 06 00:16:23 <valentin2> i just thought about a nw way to interact with the handheld
Nov 06 00:16:36 <SpeedEvil> you swipe from the middle to the outside?
Nov 06 00:17:14 <valentin2> you mean the lockscreen?
Nov 06 00:17:21 <SpeedEvil> yes
Nov 06 00:17:31 <valentin2> take a look at the top
Nov 06 00:17:55 <valentin2> on the left sife you should swipe your finger on to the right side in a circle
Nov 06 00:18:01 <valentin2> to unlock it
Nov 06 00:18:06 <SpeedEvil> ah
Nov 06 00:18:10 <valentin2> side*
Nov 06 00:18:18 <SpeedEvil> Neat.
Nov 06 00:18:25 <SpeedEvil> It looks like the columbus app.
Nov 06 00:18:30 <SpeedEvil> a bit
Nov 06 00:18:40 <valentin2> i wanted everything to be like in a circle
Nov 06 00:19:02 <psycho_oreos> looks like some sort of a watch based UI
Nov 06 00:19:04 <valentin2> do you know else first?
Nov 06 00:19:10 <valentin2> or first else
Nov 06 00:19:45 <psycho_oreos> not off my head, I hardly look at UI improvements/designs myself
Nov 06 00:19:56 <valentin2> ok
Nov 06 00:20:06 <valentin2> then you HAVE TO take a look at that one
Nov 06 00:20:12 <valentin2> just a moment
Nov 06 00:20:23 <psycho_oreos> the link you made just then? I did and I commented it
Nov 06 00:20:48 <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, in many ways, ideas are easy.
Nov 06 00:20:59 <valentin2> nope
Nov 06 00:21:04 <valentin2> other link#
Nov 06 00:21:04 <psycho_oreos> implementation is always hard :)
Nov 06 00:21:11 <valentin2> just looking for it, pls give me a second
Nov 06 00:22:11 <valentin2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRDm2VXByYs
Nov 06 00:22:18 <valentin2> this is just to demonstrate
Nov 06 00:22:45 <valentin2> it's been a project of the company "emblaze" 
Nov 06 00:23:27 <valentin2> they finished development on the device, wanted to sell it, but couldn't find any investors
Nov 06 00:23:35 <valentin2> sad, but true
Nov 06 00:24:12 <valentin2> so i took that one and thought about what one could do to improve it and bring it on maemo 
Nov 06 00:24:29 <valentin2> just to show what maome or linux generally is capable of
Nov 06 00:24:39 <SpeedEvil> :/
Nov 06 00:24:56 <SpeedEvil> It's a damn shame that good projects don't get funded.
Nov 06 00:25:05 <valentin2> yep
Nov 06 00:25:26 <valentin2> i also sent an email to emblaze just to ensure that the project is dead
Nov 06 00:25:40 <valentin2> and asked if any prototypes still exist
Nov 06 00:25:44 <valentin2> no answer.. :(
Nov 06 00:26:13 <valentin2> and thats just one of many vids about that device
Nov 06 00:26:32 <valentin2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHghZnOH8dA
Nov 06 00:26:45 <valentin2> just the vids are amazing
Nov 06 00:28:17 <SpeedEvil> There are regrettably other issues.
Nov 06 00:28:30 <SpeedEvil> While the company may have died, t's not unlikely it's applied for patents.
Nov 06 00:28:51 <SpeedEvil> Those patents do not cease to exist simply because the company has died - they likely have been bought by someone.
Nov 06 00:30:33 <valentin2> could be
Nov 06 00:30:42 <valentin2> just noone knows
Nov 06 00:31:00 <valentin2> and eccept of that, i changed everything
Nov 06 00:31:09 <psycho_oreos> that looks pretty interesting the whole UI, it seems to slow down the device a little and yes its a shame that it never became a mainstream device
Nov 06 00:31:11 <valentin2> i just took the idea of a circle
Nov 06 00:32:14 <valentin2> that's why know i'm looking for devs to take this idea and realizing it
Nov 06 00:32:25 <valentin2> now*
Nov 06 00:32:54 <valentin2> i think it could change the whole interaction with data and stuff
Nov 06 00:33:12 <valentin2> on any device
Nov 06 00:33:33 <valentin2> indifferent being a desktop or a handheld
Nov 06 00:34:15 <jonwil> I now know the prototype of every single function called by the conversations app :)
Nov 06 00:34:35 <valentin2> :D
Nov 06 00:35:18 <valentin2> poorly i don't have any experiance in coding
Nov 06 00:35:42 <valentin2> otherwise i'd have already started working on something
Nov 06 00:37:55 <valentin2> all i can do is designing and making *.svg mockups
Nov 06 00:46:09 <valentin2> nobody wanty to give it a try?
Nov 06 00:46:11 <valentin2> s*
Nov 06 00:48:11 <psycho_oreos> I'm not particularly good at making such UI into reality :þ
Nov 06 00:48:56 <valentin2> you're developer at all?
Nov 06 00:50:08 <psycho_oreos> no
Nov 06 00:50:27 <psycho_oreos> pretty much just a intermediate linux user 
Nov 06 00:50:36 <valentin2> ok
Nov 06 00:59:10 <valentin2> could i post that idea anywhere so the devs can see that idea?
Nov 06 01:00:07 <woldrich> psycho_oreos, thanks for the tip, got the gripper the other day and it's actually quite comfortable
Nov 06 01:00:21 <woldrich> http://i.japh.se/_photo/n900_gamegripper.jpg
Nov 06 01:00:59 <psycho_oreos> valentin2, tmo threads maybe under UI development?
Nov 06 01:01:10 <valentin2> yeah
Nov 06 01:01:31 <psycho_oreos> woldrich, damn I wanted to buy one ;)
Nov 06 01:01:34 <valentin2> just sad that i douldnt find anyone online in tha ui development channel
Nov 06 01:01:39 <valentin2> :(
Nov 06 01:04:40 <woldrich> psycho_oreos, it's still for sale, not that many still in stock 
Nov 06 01:05:00 <psycho_oreos> I really don't have any other suggestions. There's very little amount of developers left and they're either busy contributing patches to CSSU or their own programs. Though for the media player, that might be an idea for the open media player by MohammadAG. The problem is will he take that onboard or not. The rest are more or less proprietary and lacks a developer to write the underlying sources
Nov 06 01:05:04 <psycho_oreos> woldrich, interesting
Nov 06 01:05:09 <Macer> woldrich: nice!
Nov 06 01:05:10 <Macer> haha
Nov 06 01:05:18 <Macer> game grip!
Nov 06 01:05:50 <Macer> do bt gamepads not work in maemo?
Nov 06 01:05:56 <Macer> like a ps3 one or something else?
Nov 06 01:06:20 <woldrich> it should work, my ps3 controller works with the cable
Nov 06 01:06:32 <psycho_oreos> i.e. USB hostmode?
Nov 06 01:06:35 <Macer> oh
Nov 06 01:06:43 <Macer> don't you have to make an adapter for usb hostmode?
Nov 06 01:06:46 <valentin2> psycho_oreos: that's sad...:(
Nov 06 01:06:48 <Macer> i would rather avoid the usb port ;)
Nov 06 01:06:51 <Macer> and use a usb one
Nov 06 01:07:13 <psycho_oreos> valentin2, partially nokia takes the blame here fyi.. most of the maemo framework is really closed
Nov 06 01:08:05 <psycho_oreos> not to mention nokia killed maemo and left it to hang
Nov 06 01:08:09 <valentin2> ...and that's called open source device..
Nov 06 01:08:14 <woldrich> yeah, I hacked together some bizarre adapter thingy from parts I found on the floor under the bed
Nov 06 01:08:50 <woldrich> but it's not something I'd carry around on the bus or whatever
Nov 06 01:09:09 <psycho_oreos> the grass is always greener on the other side :) you can always try and look for another device that has as much functionality as N900 and with updated hardware and that it would run something at least open in some retrospects
Nov 06 01:09:38 <Macer> wth is up with 80s women and those pants that go up to their stomach?
Nov 06 01:09:40 <Macer> lmao
Nov 06 01:10:12 <psycho_oreos> woldrich, duct tape helps ;) and when they give you the stare, you tell them you're a game developer.. the kids will go "oooooooooh! can I haz some?" :3
Nov 06 01:10:35 <valentin2> what the hack :D
Nov 06 01:11:05 <woldrich> psycho_oreos, :D
Nov 06 01:12:15 <valentin2> psycho: what kind of device?
Nov 06 01:13:13 <psycho_oreos> valentin2, I was blatantly sarcastic. You won't find any alternatives to N900 in terms of openness, with loads of hardware features and has at least more updated hardware (as of 2009 of course)
Nov 06 01:15:16 <valentin2> makes me kinda sad
Nov 06 01:16:45 <psycho_oreos> sadly this is the reality, I'm sure you're not the only one that has bright ideas for UI innovations that could change the landscape of how one interfaces with the device but maemo/meego are somewhat a dead and shrinking platform
Nov 06 01:17:28 <valentin2> dead just beacause devs dont get any money on developing it further
Nov 06 01:17:53 <psycho_oreos> partially that and because the lack of manufacturer contribution
Nov 06 01:18:00 <valentin2> if they'd get some investors, i think it could take its way
Nov 06 01:18:15 <valentin2> sure
Nov 06 01:18:22 <valentin2> also of hardware lack
Nov 06 01:18:29 <SpeedEvil> If I could get some investors, I'd make a stab at an open phone.
Nov 06 01:18:30 <SpeedEvil> If...
Nov 06 01:19:56 <valentin2> i'd be happy having some devs working on any project of mine...i have a lot, not just this interface
Nov 06 01:21:29 <LaoLang_cool_> How to get the last on screen message poped up, it's disappeared so quickly...
Nov 06 01:21:39 <LaoLang_cool_> Or is there a log file for it?
Nov 06 01:23:57 <valentin2> sry dont know..
Nov 06 01:24:36 <psycho_oreos> doubt it, you mean banner type messages?
Nov 06 01:25:05 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: yes
Nov 06 01:25:20 <LaoLang_cool_> it's duration is so short
Nov 06 01:25:35 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, maybe try re-executing the program again?
Nov 06 01:26:06 <psycho_oreos> or redo the steps to produce that banner
Nov 06 01:26:08 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: some message is event info, doesn't relative to the program running
Nov 06 01:26:50 <LaoLang_cool_> For example, recaller has made a record, it will say it, rerun it doesn't make sense
Nov 06 01:26:55 <psycho_oreos> LaoLang_cool_, I wouldn't know then. There's bazillion possible messages that would appear as banner
Nov 06 01:27:05 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: yes
Nov 06 01:27:10 <LaoLang_cool_> psycho_oreos: thanks all the same
Nov 06 01:27:30 <LaoLang_cool_> the time is so short, is it configurable?
Nov 06 01:28:17 <psycho_oreos> iinm the banner appears for 3 seconds but then if you press the screen when the banner appears it may disappear upon screen event
Nov 06 01:49:10 <Macer> geez. i don't remember my n900 taking this long to charge
Nov 06 01:58:20 <DocScrutinizer51> I seem to recall a database involved in notifications
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 06 02:59:57 2011