**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 06 02:59:57 2011 Dec 06 03:03:30 Anyone here ever use the bootmenu? Dec 06 09:54:04 hello #maemo. to make better use of my phone plan, I'd like to keep track of how many minutes I phoned and messages I sent. There probably is an util for that already? Dec 06 09:55:51 Yes, look in the repositories. Dec 06 09:57:18 actually, I did, and kind of failed. picked "qonso" which is kind of special (for 2 french networks) Dec 06 09:57:45 try searching for the word "minute" Dec 06 09:58:03 oh minute is a good query... thanks. Dec 06 09:58:16 You're welcome. Dec 06 09:58:25 "plan" and "count" were not. Dec 06 09:58:27 :) Dec 06 09:58:41 Yes. Dec 06 09:59:20 hmm have I loaded the wrong repositories? there's only "sleeper", "a sleep widget to pause the music player..." Dec 06 09:59:49 Have you added the testing and devel repositories? Dec 06 10:00:04 missed the testing one...refreshing... Dec 06 10:07:46 hmm still out of luck, "sleeper" only Dec 06 10:08:21 I'll have a look. Dec 06 10:08:41 thanks Dec 06 10:09:12 No problem. Dec 06 10:11:52 ukl: there is a counter for call duration in the phone application. as for apps, there doesn't seem to be any in the repos (i have devel even) Dec 06 10:12:07 perhaps u can search tmo for a script :/ Dec 06 10:13:10 Sicelo: thank you Dec 06 10:13:24 Are you sure? I could have sworn I saw an app in the repos that tracks your minutes and data usage. Dec 06 10:15:30 just found "SMSCounter" Dec 06 10:15:44 "displays info about sms and calls between given dates" Dec 06 10:15:53 seems like "call" was the magic word to search for Dec 06 10:16:29 But you need something to track your minutes. Dec 06 10:16:45 ahem, your right. Dec 06 10:17:33 I could have sworn there was one there. Dec 06 10:19:10 could be .. i did a quick search Dec 06 10:21:22 'Personal Data Plan Monitor' will track your GPRS usage, but there should be something for minute tracking. Dec 06 10:22:01 s/Data Plan/Dataplan/ Dec 06 10:22:01 jazedel meant: 'Personal Dataplan Monitor' will track your GPRS usage, but there should be something for minute tracking. Dec 06 10:23:00 * Sicelo has that installed Dec 06 10:34:50 I can't believe that. I thought we had an app for that. Dec 06 10:34:55 Sorry. Dec 06 10:46:05 no problem, thanks for your help Dec 06 14:05:03 ShadowJK: yo Dec 06 14:05:26 were you the one wanting to control LEDs (flashlight) from a script with v4l2ctl? Dec 06 14:23:18 hi Dec 06 14:30:18 Hello Dec 06 14:34:02 ~seen arcean Dec 06 14:34:12 arcean <~Arcean@aadb225.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 3d 2h 49m 47s ago, saying: '~malf'. Dec 06 14:42:28 wow Dec 06 14:42:36 wine and games was so fail :) Dec 06 14:42:45 i wound up just installing win7 Dec 06 14:42:46 i can play diablo 2 in wine Dec 06 14:42:51 lol Dec 06 14:43:02 WoW plays ok too but i don't like wine Dec 06 14:43:10 rage ran but sound was broken Dec 06 14:43:17 as did nba 2k12 Dec 06 14:43:44 where is my nba2k12 for n900? :/ Dec 06 14:44:04 nope, chuck testa Dec 06 14:44:14 Games are often large, complex, and cut corners. Dec 06 14:44:47 i guess Dec 06 14:44:56 when done right they look great Dec 06 14:45:05 and done right is usually done in windows Dec 06 14:45:09 opentyrian on n900 is a great game Dec 06 14:45:10 vi_____; not me Dec 06 14:45:29 probably because ms has a pretty traightforward api Dec 06 14:45:33 with dx Dec 06 14:45:58 whereas any concensus on an api for linux is still up in the air Dec 06 14:46:12 Mostly because Windows has the largest market share. Dec 06 14:46:32 Not because of their api. Dec 06 14:46:47 i don't think that is the reason. most games can use a different bin with the same data files to run Dec 06 14:47:12 i think it is because there is no universal api for linux so why bother Dec 06 14:47:14 The DX API is pretty straightforward, but game companies wouldn't be deterred if linux had the largest market share Dec 06 14:47:38 linux doesnt have the market share due to its lack of such things Dec 06 14:47:39 i liked unreal tournament 2004 because it worked natively on linux Dec 06 14:47:46 if more games used opengl it would be easy to make them cross platfor Dec 06 14:47:47 2004 ;) Dec 06 14:48:00 yeah it's an old game Dec 06 14:48:06 but you could drive vehicles and kill people Dec 06 14:48:09 there were a few games linux native Dec 06 14:48:16 ut classic was so much better! Dec 06 14:48:20 yeah Dec 06 14:48:28 in ut2k4 the dudes had like a ton of body fat to drag with them :p Dec 06 14:48:30 but i can only imagine the pain it must have been Dec 06 14:48:50 where are the times :/ Dec 06 14:48:55 when I was still gaming! Dec 06 14:49:01 long long time ago :p Dec 06 14:49:05 but linux fails inasmuch that there are no centralized ideas Dec 06 14:49:18 and eventually things turn into dev hissy fits and forks Dec 06 14:49:37 whereas ms just fires people :) Dec 06 14:49:43 and also a lot of devs really should follow a course "user interfaces" Dec 06 14:49:44 Making a game run on multiple platforms is much more complicated, will have poorer performance, and provide relatively little gain. Dec 06 14:49:52 that don't conform to the common goal lol Dec 06 14:50:15 jazedal: then make the apis cross platform ;) Dec 06 14:50:27 * Macer grins Dec 06 14:50:27 dx for linux! Dec 06 14:50:53 or make an api that works with both that kis open sourced Dec 06 14:50:59 are you going to keep complaining, or wait for responses Dec 06 14:51:42 anyway strangest conversations here Dec 06 14:51:52 you run UT on your cellphone? :p Dec 06 14:52:22 that would be great Dec 06 14:52:26 Macer: That would require microsoft to make DX support linux Dec 06 14:52:29 i would play UT2004 on a n9 Dec 06 14:52:31 or n900 Dec 06 14:53:00 it's lame they didnt make a pink n900 Dec 06 14:53:19 You can paint it yourself. Dec 06 14:53:22 i'm not complainig :) Dec 06 14:53:50 Gh0sty: ioquake3 runs ;) Dec 06 14:53:52 Sure you are, but you need solutions. Dec 06 14:54:13 i thought an opensourced api for both platforms was a good idea for a solution Dec 06 14:54:25 that works cross platform Dec 06 14:54:28 java? :) Dec 06 14:54:31 * Macer hides Dec 06 14:54:35 Open source developers created OpenGL for that purpose. Dec 06 14:55:02 opengl is one aspect. but dx provides apis for the entire game Dec 06 14:55:20 audio, video, input, etc. Dec 06 14:55:38 Gh0sty: it runs pretty well too Dec 06 14:55:53 lol Dec 06 14:55:58 wasnt unreal src released? :) Dec 06 14:56:01 We're all fans of open source, portable software, but the complaints arise when the software we pay for ends up receiving more attention from developers. Dec 06 14:56:06 not sure how the hell I would play quake on my n900 Dec 06 14:56:52 opengl wasn't created by opensource devs ;p Dec 06 14:56:53 Gh0sty: you lean the phone around :) Dec 06 14:57:04 omg Dec 06 14:57:18 ShadowJK: lmao! i didn't want to say it Dec 06 14:57:22 I see myself already double jumping or walldodging with my phone for UT :P Dec 06 14:57:43 i think jumping is assigned to a key Dec 06 14:57:51 booh :p Dec 06 14:57:55 but movement uses the position of the device Dec 06 14:59:37 15:49 < Erika> it's lame they didnt make a pink n900 Dec 06 14:59:49 yeah that was what nokia was missing! Dec 06 14:59:53 like leaning left and right turns you left and right Dec 06 14:59:53 it actually workded out better th Dec 06 14:59:54 getting it sold to girls! :P Dec 06 14:59:55 an i thought it would Dec 06 15:00:02 ShadowJK: Macer: OpenGL is open source Dec 06 15:00:05 http://www.opengl.org/about/overview/ Dec 06 15:00:29 i know Dec 06 15:00:39 It is developed by open source developers in a non-profit organization. Dec 06 15:01:01 Gh0sty, they made a pink n Dec 06 15:01:02 n9 Dec 06 15:01:04 so i guess they got the idea Dec 06 15:01:22 if my n900 dies one day maybe i'll get a pink n9 Dec 06 15:01:39 there is a pink n9? :o Dec 06 15:01:52 dont want to buy a n9 Dec 06 15:02:00 its a dead platform from the start :( Dec 06 15:02:02 too bad Dec 06 15:02:44 but the statement was "opengl was creatated by open source developers" Dec 06 15:02:50 it was not Dec 06 15:02:53 With sandpaper, paint, and clearcoat you can recolor your N900. Dec 06 15:02:58 opengl was made by sgi :) Dec 06 15:03:10 anyways.. going back to stuff Dec 06 15:03:22 Erika: they used to sell pink silicon skins Dec 06 15:03:34 yeah but the n900 is already super bulky Dec 06 15:03:37 it makes a huge bulge in my pocket Dec 06 15:03:49 i never thought it was that big Dec 06 15:03:56 Erika: that is called a geekboner Dec 06 15:03:57 put a samsung note in your pocket :) Dec 06 15:03:58 the other phones i had before were smaller Dec 06 15:04:08 that one wouldlnt fit i saw it Dec 06 15:04:13 is that an n900 in your pocket or are you just happy to see me ... Dec 06 15:04:17 alas that never happens :( Dec 06 15:04:22 lol. i dont think a note would fit in cargo pants Dec 06 15:04:26 you should see the n900 in the otterbox case. Dec 06 15:04:37 It is a gargantuan titanobehemoth. Dec 06 15:04:53 otterbox case? Dec 06 15:05:17 I just tell myself it is a pocket computer, it is okay for it to be that hoooge. Dec 06 15:05:22 lol Dec 06 15:05:29 Gh0sty: otterbox made a case for the n900 Dec 06 15:05:39 you could throw a n900 at someone and knock them unconscious Dec 06 15:05:44 vi_____: it is the best one but totally massive. Dec 06 15:06:20 Erika: it is smaller than a netbook... Dec 06 15:06:28 not by much Dec 06 15:06:43 It does not really need a case it is so robust. Dec 06 15:06:54 However scratches are a bitch. Dec 06 15:07:04 How does SGI developing OpenGL mean that it wasn't developed by open source developers? Dec 06 15:07:11 it has a qwerty Dec 06 15:07:11 that makes up for it Dec 06 15:07:36 jazedal: uhm. no comment. i stopped talking about it. Dec 06 15:08:02 it is almost 2012, who buys an n900 without knowing EXACTLY what it is? Dec 06 15:08:02 SGI was an open source software developer itself, as well as all of the developers that contributed to the project. Dec 06 15:08:14 * Macer facepalms Dec 06 15:08:19 you're right Dec 06 15:08:23 you win Dec 06 15:08:44 happy? Dec 06 15:08:46 :) Dec 06 15:08:50 didnt they stop producing n900's Dec 06 15:08:53 Why do you see a difference between a company of operators and a company? Dec 06 15:09:30 i don't. you are correct. you have won. good job. Dec 06 15:09:38 Erika: skype still sells them Dec 06 15:09:43 of all people Dec 06 15:09:53 Don't make a big deal about it. Dec 06 15:10:00 lol for real Dec 06 15:10:01 they have to get them from somewhere Dec 06 15:10:12 that's pretty weird Dec 06 15:10:23 Macer: are you jerking me off? Dec 06 15:10:34 jazedal: you are making a big deal out of it. i gave up 10 mins ago. Dec 06 15:10:36 Macer: skype implementation on n900 is shit. Dec 06 15:10:43 choppy audio Dec 06 15:10:47 vi_____: uhm. no. i just saw it on their site Dec 06 15:10:52 they sell them Dec 06 15:10:56 I was merely pointing out that you were wrong, and I was right... Dec 06 15:11:07 good job :) go you! Dec 06 15:11:23 want me to slap you on the ass and give you an attaboy? Dec 06 15:11:44 :o Dec 06 15:11:51 lmao. the argument wasn't worth the trouble. Dec 06 15:11:57 I'd rather you not. Dec 06 15:12:07 vi_____: i was teying to buy a mtx handset Dec 06 15:12:10 16:02 < vi_____> It does not really need a case it is so robust. Dec 06 15:12:12 an extra one Dec 06 15:12:20 dropped my n900 on the stairs at home (wooden stairs) Dec 06 15:12:25 not there is a dent in the stairs Dec 06 15:12:34 and my n900 has nothing :/ Dec 06 15:12:37 and saw n900s Dec 06 15:12:55 Regardless of the trouble it's worth, I'm satisfied. Dec 06 15:13:18 yay! Dec 06 15:13:21 lol Dec 06 15:13:28 ATTABOY!! Dec 06 15:13:30 Gh0sty: heh Dec 06 15:13:32 Thank you. Dec 06 15:14:03 the worst one I've seen was one scratched when falling off a motorcycle Dec 06 15:14:09 see if i find that picture back :p Dec 06 15:14:10 *SmIlE* Dec 06 15:17:10 http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/821/dsc0373x.jpg/ Dec 06 15:18:02 Gh0sty: looks fine Dec 06 15:18:28 I am off to see a dodgy sounding guy to buy a 'broken' n900 for £20 Dec 06 15:18:32 Good lord, what have you done? Dec 06 15:18:37 hi. does anyone a good client for Ustream on N900? Dec 06 15:18:39 It's less shiny. Dec 06 15:19:03 we all know they cannot be broken, no matter how chavvy you are. Dec 06 15:19:30 jazedal: not to mention that opengl 3 was total shit Dec 06 15:19:50 which is what happens when it is tossed to open src devs from real company devs Dec 06 15:19:57 * Macer hides Dec 06 15:20:03 lmao... gotta go Dec 06 15:20:25 vi_____: according to description: Dec 06 15:21:21 guy was driving with a scooter, over a speedbump, the n900 escaped his pocket ... rolled over te street and ended against the sidewalk Dec 06 15:21:35 it still worked, however the slider was pretty bad :P Dec 06 15:21:44 and the fact that the screen was dented :) Dec 06 15:21:55 Macer: I do not disagree. Perhaps projects should have a more disciplined design methodology. Dec 06 15:22:05 calling opengl "something made by open source devs" is like saying the same about solaris Dec 06 15:22:16 jazedal: are you on the rag Dec 06 15:22:18 ? Dec 06 15:22:27 As well as a better financial plan. Dec 06 15:22:28 are you searching for a gnu fight? Dec 06 15:23:14 opengl was cool Dec 06 15:23:19 opengl was made by a closed company then gtossed to the masses... they were not "open developers" a better analogy would be like calling maemo open src Dec 06 15:23:23 too bad nvidia sort of sidewalked it :( Dec 06 15:23:27 or made by open src devs Dec 06 15:23:33 nokia was anything but :) Dec 06 15:24:02 OpenGL is open source, maemo is not entirely open source Dec 06 15:24:42 but the developers themselves were not "open src devs" they were sgi devs competing with sun and ibm .. their only incentive was competition Dec 06 15:24:54 money Dec 06 15:25:53 why must all open sourcers believe in this tree huggerness of opensource.. with the exception of the linux kernel.. 99% of good things in the "open" community have been done by companies Dec 06 15:25:55 As it should be. Dec 06 15:26:12 not "open developers" Dec 06 15:26:25 lol Dec 06 15:26:48 the only thing that keeps open source going is a pay check Dec 06 15:26:58 and that is the harsh reality of it Dec 06 15:27:22 I believe I alluded to that. Dec 06 15:27:45 no. you simplu said opengl was made by open developers Dec 06 15:27:51 which it was not Dec 06 15:27:59 it was made by commercial developers Dec 06 15:28:00 Open development does not necessarily preclude income. Dec 06 15:28:37 i would never consider an ibm or sgi employee an "open developer" Dec 06 15:29:02 Open development does not mean development for no monetary gain Dec 06 15:29:08 X was xerox :-P Dec 06 15:29:25 blah. anyways. circles. gotta do stuff. Dec 06 15:29:48 Open source means the source code is available to the end-user, and free software means the software can be copied freely. Dec 06 15:30:37 That does not preclude the developers from making money from it. Dec 06 15:32:26 Personally, I find portable, free and open source software ideal, though lacking in support. Dec 06 15:33:42 That is why I suggest users of FOSS software to consider donating. Dec 06 15:36:00 so you arent going to donate to the sgi developers? Dec 06 15:36:03 wtf? Dec 06 15:36:06 Almost everyone find FOSS very convenient, but they transfer almost no money into that sector. While spending a great deal on restrictive software, that has taken the lead due to better financials. Dec 06 15:36:13 or xerox? Dec 06 15:36:21 where are the xerox donations? Dec 06 15:37:06 areca released an open driver for their raid cards... do their "open developers" get a donation as well? Dec 06 15:37:09 Actually, I suggest hiring developers to contribute, or paying for more bandwith on repo servers, etc. Dec 06 15:38:35 Areca makes money from selling raid cards. Dec 06 15:38:39 true open developers make stuff like... tux based crapware games or apps that are pythonized to death... the real stuff comes from companies Dec 06 15:39:39 and i will never consider a company man a true open developer Dec 06 15:39:47 The contributions just need monitoring and review. You can pay the reviewers as well. Dec 06 15:39:49 ms releases "open" software as well Dec 06 15:40:01 However you want your software to be. Dec 06 15:40:06 lol Dec 06 15:40:10 My final proposition is this: Dec 06 15:40:21 do you consider their developers "open developers" Dec 06 15:40:24 ? Dec 06 15:40:26 actually Dec 06 15:40:37 ms releases OS software, but not free software Dec 06 15:40:47 uhm Dec 06 15:40:58 ok.. this is where i stop talking to you Dec 06 15:40:59 their software is licensed Dec 06 15:41:14 Dec 06 15:41:15 it's not enough to be opensource, it has to be free Dec 06 15:42:03 Yes, developers who develop open source software are open developers Dec 06 15:43:15 OS means open source in this context, not operating system. Dec 06 15:44:26 It's like teaching a monkey how to drive.. Dec 06 15:45:13 lol Dec 06 15:46:01 vi_____: does you client add yet another _ whenever you have nick conflict? Dec 06 15:46:10 the amount of _ in your nick is gettings silly Dec 06 15:46:24 s/gettings/getting/ Dec 06 15:46:25 merlin1991 meant: the amount of _ in your nick is getting silly Dec 06 15:53:47 the ___ represents my e-penis Dec 06 15:54:39 vi_: awww, the little fella feeling cold tonight? Dec 06 15:54:40 * hiemanshu runs Dec 06 15:54:53 ping X-Fade Dec 06 15:54:59 hiemanshu: lols Dec 06 15:55:25 who was the guy trying to turn on LED with a shell script using v4l2ctl? Dec 06 15:56:07 ~seen X-Fade Dec 06 15:56:18 x-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego. Has said a total of 42 messages. Is idling for 24m 57s, last said: 'djszapi: The possibility of people complaining :)'. Dec 06 16:29:41 dang it, I disabled some services from starting at boot time on my n810 and now when I try to turn it on, it just stays at the nokia loading screen. Is there anyway that I can boot it into a safe more or something or some way to mount its internal flash to another computer so I can undo what I did? Dec 06 16:30:36 No. Dec 06 16:31:23 anything at all that I can do? other than completly reflash it? Dec 06 16:31:34 No. Dec 06 16:32:24 I believe I've heard of a boot menu, but if you haven't set that up, and I imagine if you did, you wouldn't be asking, then the only known recourse is to reflash. Dec 06 16:32:33 crap Dec 06 16:33:38 I make lists of packages I like, and record configuration changes I've made, so I can recover as easily as possible. Dec 06 16:35:59 I recommend you do the same. Dec 06 16:37:11 any quick links to how to reflash? Dec 06 16:38:06 Sure, one moment. Dec 06 16:38:31 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Dec 06 16:39:12 on windows it boils down to downloading the flasher, downloading the image, and flashing the image to the device. Dec 06 16:39:52 Don't bother flashing the eMMC (i.e. MyDocs), as only the rootfs is corrupt. Dec 06 16:40:23 What operating system do you have? Dec 06 16:45:24 jazedal: I don't know. I think it was the latest diablo one Dec 06 16:46:55 I'm referring to your PC operating system. Dec 06 16:47:10 esaym153: ^ Dec 06 16:47:35 jazedal: oh, linux. debian testing or squeeze Dec 06 16:48:26 debian testing is nicknamed wheezy, squeeze is the stable Dec 06 16:48:50 Either way, I haven't flashed from linux. Dec 06 16:50:07 I just remembered you said you had an N810, I assume you followed the link to the correct wiki article. Dec 06 16:50:42 yea Dec 06 16:51:18 Good. Dec 06 16:52:37 Moo all Dec 06 16:57:11 RST38h: hey! Dec 06 16:57:21 how are things?? Dec 06 16:58:29 I imagine things are pretty boring as a cow. Dec 06 16:58:58 ~seen X-Fade Dec 06 16:59:01 x-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego. Has said a total of 51 messages. Is idling for 28m 38s, last said: '*his'. Dec 06 16:59:03 there is nothing like this for the n810: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd ? Dec 06 17:00:31 I don't use an N810. I'm afraid I won't be of much help. Dec 06 17:00:53 moo Dec 06 17:02:19 ping DocScrutinizer Dec 06 17:02:35 Pali: pong Dec 06 17:02:48 Nokia now send new version of bq2415x driver to LKML: https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/12/5/574 Dec 06 17:02:54 Good lord, there's more of them. Dec 06 17:04:33 Pali: I don't think their general concept and idea of a driver for bq2715x changed Dec 06 17:04:51 yes, I agree with you Dec 06 17:05:04 it's userland centric aka designed to fit bme Dec 06 17:05:34 no, concept of this driver is working without userland Dec 06 17:05:57 while I'd prefer a design that basically obsoletes bme Dec 06 17:06:06 but it is again without boost support or someting else Dec 06 17:06:40 omg Dec 06 17:07:20 Macer: lively Dec 06 17:07:36 Macer: Watching violent clashes with police, over internet Dec 06 17:08:11 all our base are belong to evil Nokia Dec 06 17:08:11 :-:p Dec 06 17:08:23 Nokia seems to feel extremely uncomfortable to give full control over bq2715x to user Dec 06 17:09:55 prolly afraid of you blowing up the battery Dec 06 17:10:02 yes, I belive that maintainers of trees where will be that driver accept future changes/driver replace :-) (when nokia finish their implementation) Dec 06 17:27:37 actually all drivers written by Nokia, that I have reviewed so far, are well written for what actually *is* written - each single one missed quite a bit or even a lot of support for the managed chip's comprehensive set of capabilities. lis302: no highpass/differential filter mode&settings, this no proper IRQ for arbitrary movements. LP5523: half of the program storage memory is not supported, 30% of opcodes not documented neither used. Now Dec 06 17:27:38 bq2415x: seems Nokia is determined to hide the fact that the chip has an own controller that is well capable of doing most of bme's job Dec 06 17:29:30 DocScrutinizer, you can write this to that LKML thread too Dec 06 17:29:36 the maximum weird thing about LP553: it's been designed by Nokia! Dec 06 17:31:41 whyat is lis302 and LP5523? Dec 06 17:31:49 DocScrutinizer, do you know how BME calculate battery percentage? Dec 06 17:32:10 Nobody does. Dec 06 17:32:31 rather easy to find empirically Dec 06 17:32:37 It's not. Dec 06 17:32:51 I asked this one of BME author Dec 06 17:32:56 the power monitor application shows both the charge and the voltage, so just tabulate the data and find function Dec 06 17:33:32 Answer: "Capacity calculations are mainly based on coulomb counter readings plus battery discharge curve." Dec 06 17:33:39 so nothing usefull Dec 06 17:33:57 The intention should be something like 'with the current battery state, including estimated ESR, what is the point at which with the maximum cellmo load, the cellmo will drop out', compared to the total capacity Dec 06 17:34:07 jonwil: lis302:accelmeter, LP5523:9chan-LED driver Dec 06 17:34:55 ok Dec 06 17:35:07 RST38h: BS, that assumes there's a simple arithmetic algo in bme doing that, or a table lookup in a 2D-table Dec 06 17:35:41 BME certainly seems to notice ESR - somehow. Dec 06 17:35:42 it's probably not exactly that simple Dec 06 17:35:57 And the above - temperature probably matters too Dec 06 17:36:02 somehow, yes. By detecting delta-V Dec 06 17:36:18 Doc:and there is none? Dec 06 17:36:22 what is the "Swap" button on the n810? Dec 06 17:38:08 extremely simple test: stop bme, wait 3 minutes with display on, start dme -> "WTF?! my battery dropped from 80% to 20%???!" Dec 06 17:38:28 bme* Dec 06 17:38:56 hardly to explain by a 2D-table lookup Dec 06 17:39:36 or any polinom Dec 06 17:39:47 poly* Dec 06 17:43:12 my suspicion: bme stores "last seen bat voltage" to CAL, so it will survive even system reboots. What it forgets to store (as there is no reliable source for it): the timestamp for this vltage reading. So stop bme, wait a bit, start bme and it goes "duh, the battery droped nnn uV since last test - must be geeting empty now, so lemme reduce percentage of charge to match the situation" Dec 06 17:44:18 getting* Dec 06 17:45:48 Not implausible. Dec 06 17:47:12 hmmm, interesting, BME uses dsmesock_* to talk to dsme Dec 06 17:48:16 jonwil: you can use ltrace application to see all library calls Dec 06 17:48:22 yeah Dec 06 17:49:33 btw 9h of 2.5G with xchat on ~10 chan, with occasional 5min of use, and a shell script (bq27200.sh 5) running all the time in background, depleted my battery from 100 to 25%, according to bq27200 Dec 06 17:51:17 DocScrutinizer, i wish i could get that long out of my battery lol Dec 06 17:51:50 That's a bit steep Dec 06 17:55:59 ok, so guys, if you run hal-device bme on the phone, which field(s) are the ones that you are talking about here? Dec 06 17:56:07 battery.charge_level.percentage? Dec 06 17:56:44 ? Dec 06 18:13:22 hmm, probably. Though I most recently talked about percentage in output of bq27200.sh Dec 06 18:15:06 does bq27200.sh talk to BME in any way or is it pulling data from the hardware directly?> Dec 06 18:15:47 People were talking about algorithms in BME and I want to know exactly which of the pieces of data returned by BME is the one people want to know more about Dec 06 18:17:06 bq27200.sh doesn't talk to bme Dec 06 18:17:18 ok Dec 06 18:17:24 Though I have a script somewhere that talks to both, and displays it side by side. Dec 06 18:18:25 "Capacity calculations are mainly based on coulomb counter readings plus battery discharge curve." <- from watching bme output, this seems correct. The devil is in the details, though. Dec 06 18:18:47 esaym153, the one that brings up the list of open apps Dec 06 18:20:54 ok, so the "details" you speak of come from the algorithm in BME used to calculate whatever battery.charge_level.percentage returns? Dec 06 18:23:02 Well, percentage is probably calculated from remaining capacity and "design" capacity Dec 06 18:23:30 I think it just uses coulomb counting, and adjusts the sum whenever voltage profile is off Dec 06 18:23:45 jonwil: whatever bme does, it's nothing we'd like to learn from ;-D Dec 06 18:24:10 ok Dec 06 18:24:11 Probably the main issue is that it doesn't have a reliable "The battery has this many mAh when full" metric Dec 06 18:24:31 so there are no secrets in BME that we need to know? Dec 06 18:24:41 not really Dec 06 18:24:46 nope Dec 06 18:24:47 ok Dec 06 18:25:26 there are secrets in bme that better stay secret til the end of times though Dec 06 18:25:53 like what? Dec 06 18:26:06 or at least until nobody could find out who's a child's child of the coder that coded that crap Dec 06 18:26:58 like e.g why bme is talking/reading to/from a register 0x44 of a chip that has registers 0x00 til 0x05 Dec 06 18:27:51 bug :D Dec 06 18:28:04 obviously Dec 06 18:28:24 I lterally *see* the sourcecode that causes such bugs Dec 06 18:28:38 or has nokia "special" chips in n900? Dec 06 18:28:43 nope Dec 06 18:29:38 they just mirror the registers until and of 7bit addr space, as all I2C chips do Dec 06 18:29:50 s/and/end/ Dec 06 18:29:50 DocScrutinizer meant: they just mirror the registers until end of 7bit addr space, as all I2C chips do Dec 06 18:30:35 BME - buffer overflow and bugs... Dec 06 18:35:27 jonwil: you don't want to RE that shit, believe me Dec 06 18:35:37 ok Dec 06 18:35:42 the more RE you do, the less sense it all makes Dec 06 18:36:25 http://enivax.net/jk/n900/bqvsbme.png bme vs bq27200. bq27200 output has been rescaled to the range 0-100%. Dec 06 18:37:00 No charging takes place on the right half of the graph, yet bme adjusts itself upwards a few times Dec 06 18:37:24 how to do it easy? Dec 06 18:45:13 ~seen pupnik Dec 06 18:45:29 pupnik was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 67d 18h 50m 43s ago, saying: 'tegra chipset?'. Dec 06 18:45:38 lol Dec 06 18:46:35 lol? Dec 06 18:51:40 ping X-Fade Dec 06 18:52:36 ~seen X-Fade Dec 06 18:52:38 x-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego. Has said a total of 51 messages. Is idling for 2h 22m 15s, last said: '*his'. Dec 06 18:54:26 ~botsnack Dec 06 18:54:27 aw, gee, DocScrutinizer Dec 06 19:43:31 does Maemo really need CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED? Dec 06 20:36:01 WTF is CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED? Dec 06 20:36:10 sysfs is deprecated? Dec 06 20:36:44 In future, all configuration is done through pulseaudio. which is now required in the kernel. Dec 06 20:37:27 * DocScrutinizer silently shoots himself Dec 06 20:40:44 haha Dec 06 20:41:05 but yeah whats the sucessor to /sys ? Dec 06 20:44:09 DocScrutinizer: It enables or disables certain deprecated _features_ of the sysfs layout. Not all of sysfs itself. Dec 06 20:45:00 pfooooh Dec 06 20:45:20 * DocScrutinizer takes a deep breath Dec 06 20:49:38 God, horrorshow is my life - in TV DrHouse butchers his own leg, here somebody butchers my linux world, and tomorrow ClearCase does the rest to my brain Dec 06 21:50:52 DocScrutinizer: old udev requires CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED; new udev won't work with it Dec 06 22:05:43 luke-jr: thanks for clarifying Dec 06 22:06:09 * luke-jr ponders Dec 06 22:06:18 * luke-jr considers trying to kexec… Dec 06 22:14:47 HI! Dec 06 22:14:52 huh? Dec 06 22:20:33 kexec and maemo != friends, unfortanly Dec 06 22:24:42 I was not able to use kexec - it did not worked Dec 06 22:25:02 (on maemo with or without kernel-power) Dec 06 22:26:26 it worked for me with meego kernels. kexecing meego kernels with meego-kernels worked, kexecing kernel-power from another distri using meego-kernel didn't really work (it basically died on booting). Dec 06 22:38:50 My Nokia N900 complains that i dont have enough Application Space for the Kernel Update Dec 06 22:39:13 but if I look how much "Application Space" there is, it is about 200mb Dec 06 22:39:17 isn't that enough? Dec 06 22:53:24 sigh! Dec 06 22:53:34 who maintains power kernel anyhwo? Dec 06 22:53:50 doesn't Pali do that? Dec 06 22:54:20 Pali: poke Dec 06 22:56:00 luke-jr: kexec does not working with kernel-power or stock Dec 06 22:56:41 in kp and last PR1.3 stock kernel are kexec pacthes but I was not able to boot anything with kexec Dec 06 22:58:19 Pali: I want to build kernel-power. Dec 06 22:59:16 Pali: but I can't figure out how to patch it up Dec 06 22:59:36 Pali: the patches in the kernel-power sources don't apply to vanilla 2.6.28, nor to fremantle 2.6.28 Dec 06 22:59:44 Pali: so … what's it based on? XD Dec 06 23:00:01 they apply to vanilla Dec 06 23:00:17 kp tree has all nokia patches Dec 06 23:00:39 download tarball 2.6.28 from kernel.org or from repository.maemo.org Dec 06 23:01:07 Pali: they don't, though :/ Dec 06 23:01:19 see: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71879 Dec 06 23:01:20 the first one to modify EXTRAVERSION in Makefile expects "-power" already there Dec 06 23:01:52 see TMO, here is how to compile Dec 06 23:02:09 I don't use Debian. Dec 06 23:02:51 uff, build scripts depends on scratchbox or madde Dec 06 23:03:03 much less those >_< Dec 06 23:03:09 I just want to apply patches and build myself Dec 06 23:03:36 but see TMO, "Compiling 0. Download source code from git repository" Dec 06 23:03:51 this needs only git & tar Dec 06 23:04:07 but doesn't seem to apply the patches? Dec 06 23:04:18 patches are quit type Dec 06 23:04:40 so you can you quilt or manully apply with patch -p1 -i Dec 06 23:04:52 yes, but the problem is they *don't* just apply on vanilla :/ Dec 06 23:05:12 it must apply, I tested it... Dec 06 23:05:22 wait, I will try again Dec 06 23:07:42 Pali: I'm somewhat confused about the patches outside the patches/ dir tho Dec 06 23:08:19 all patches are here: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power;a=tree;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches Dec 06 23:08:29 see series file for order Dec 06 23:10:05 Tested, all patches applyied without problem Dec 06 23:10:09 tarball: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.28.tar.gz Dec 06 23:10:21 $ for file in `cat patches/series`; do patch -p1 -i patches/$file; done Dec 06 23:10:46 I'm trying to build rev b4c9704d93d4a648d2fefccda89737040828429b Dec 06 23:10:52 luke-jr: I do not see any problem Dec 06 23:11:02 it's getting stuck at armthumb.diff now Dec 06 23:11:23 THUMB-WHAT? Dec 06 23:11:38 b4c9704d93d4a648d2fefccda89737040828429b is old version Dec 06 23:11:45 Hunk #1 FAILED at 90. Dec 06 23:11:52 try HEAD Dec 06 23:11:53 Pali: it's the current stable kernel-power Dec 06 23:12:01 newer kernel-power bricks my device Dec 06 23:12:03 current stable is v49 Dec 06 23:12:20 what's that thumb shit? Dec 06 23:12:38 please don't tell me now PK also tries using thunb stuff Dec 06 23:13:10 Pali: apt says it's v42 Dec 06 23:13:17 we had a rather lengthy not yet finished discussion regarding thumb on N900 CPU, over in #maemo-ssu Dec 06 23:13:42 I'm still claiming thumb is broken in silicon, on N900 Dec 06 23:13:45 DocScrutinizer: armthumb.diff is ARM errata: Stale prediction on replaced interworking branch Dec 06 23:13:52 luke-jr: X-Fade still not filed problem with apt Dec 06 23:14:01 what is it? Dec 06 23:14:04 Pali: ? Dec 06 23:14:07 I will look at it Dec 06 23:15:02 luke-jr: yeah, there are supposedly patches for thumb silicon errata, but seems they just don't clean up all the pieces Dec 06 23:15:33 DocScrutinizer: I don't really care about thumb, I just want to get this kernel to go :P Dec 06 23:15:35 though freemangordon is still "not buying it" Dec 06 23:15:57 luke-jr, only last kp versions has normal patch series Dec 06 23:16:25 Pali: if it bricks my device, do I get a warranty? :P Dec 06 23:16:31 I cannot help you with building older versions Dec 06 23:17:17 I had problems too, so I modified a lot of debian/rules parts Dec 06 23:17:43 :/ Dec 06 23:17:58 Pali: btw, is there a normal kernel git repo you guys use? Dec 06 23:18:06 ie, with kernel source, not patches Dec 06 23:18:29 what do you mean with kernel source? Dec 06 23:18:43 only this kernel-power with patch series Dec 06 23:19:08 but you can use only some patches Dec 06 23:19:21 Pali: like a git clone of Linus's tree Dec 06 23:19:26 no Dec 06 23:19:50 you can detele all patches expect "nokia-*.diff" Dec 06 23:19:59 and you get stock kernel Dec 06 23:21:05 oh wow, I got a commit hash collision that forces git to use longer short-hash Dec 06 23:21:22 Pali: know about this bugfix applied to your git tree after v49? is it important? Dec 06 23:21:49 which bugfix? Dec 06 23:22:11 Fixed bug when device restarts instead of shutdown when a charger is attached Dec 06 23:22:14 luke-jr: that's where PaulFertser almost did a rm -r * on hostmode stuff - powerkernel is a mess Dec 06 23:23:05 ? Dec 06 23:23:14 no cvs, svc, or git at all Dec 06 23:23:15 luke-jr: this problem reported more users on TMO and freemangordon wrote patch Dec 06 23:23:20 svn Dec 06 23:24:14 I'm using this patch and no problem... Dec 06 23:24:18 so no bisect either Dec 06 23:24:28 ask freemangordon about it Dec 06 23:24:40 * DocScrutinizer hides Dec 06 23:24:45 Pali: what happens if I leave it out? Dec 06 23:24:53 DocScrutinizer: you can disable some patches Dec 06 23:24:54 nuttin bad Dec 06 23:25:07 you get actual kp v49 version Dec 06 23:25:43 there's some strange shit in kernel that got triggered by hostmode patches Dec 06 23:26:09 worst case scenario, I have to shutdown twice? O.o Dec 06 23:26:24 Pali: would you like to make fcam built-in to power-kernel? Dec 06 23:26:34 if you leave out freemango's patch, you'll see strange beahviour on shutdown, startup - when charger attached Dec 06 23:27:12 luke-jr: I'm not using fcam, so I cannot test it if it works Dec 06 23:27:28 Pali: me either! :D Dec 06 23:27:35 Neither Dec 06 23:27:43 I just know applying it doesn't break normal use Dec 06 23:31:09 Pali: dspbridge.diff has a questionable hack… care for a proper fix? >_< Dec 06 23:31:21 do you know if whoever did it can confirm it's sane?\ Dec 06 23:32:47 what? Dec 06 23:32:52 looks like freemangordon wrote it Dec 06 23:33:13 he just yanked out the "#elif TARGET_ENDIANNESS_DIFFERS(TARGET_BIG_ENDIAN)" scenario entirely Dec 06 23:33:18 I presume because it wouldn't compile Dec 06 23:33:40 I have (I think) a proper fix for it Dec 06 23:34:38 ok Dec 06 23:35:33 sorry, but now I'm going sleep Dec 06 23:35:44 … Dec 06 23:35:46 send me mail Dec 06 23:49:43 osso-caluclator Dec 06 23:49:45 yaay Dec 06 23:51:01 ~seen mohammadag Dec 06 23:51:07 mohammadag is currently on #maemo (7h 44m 22s) #harmattan (7h 44m 22s) #meego (7h 44m 22s), last said: '~seen stroughtonsmith'. Dec 07 00:08:15 * DocScrutinizer ponders redifining of ~seen Dec 07 00:10:00 o_O Dec 07 01:18:32 run 'Settings -> My Nokia' will cause "Internal error, application Settings' closed." Dec 07 01:18:35 What's wrong? Dec 07 01:52:03 LaoLang_cool: did you mess with the packages? Dec 07 02:25:32 x29a: what do you mean? Dec 07 02:30:21 did you install something? Dec 07 02:30:31 or what was the action you took, before you noticed the fault Dec 07 02:49:08 x29a: sorry for delay. Yes, I've installed apps, I have to reflash n900 to check which app causes it? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 07 02:59:57 2011