**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 15 02:59:57 2011
Dec 15 03:02:43 <Pali> new final version of my cold flasher is out, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=80840
Dec 15 03:08:23 <Intan_b> any body knows about progresses of harmattan ? i wonder which device is supportet
Dec 15 03:09:40 <SpeedEvil> Only the n9 and n950
Dec 15 03:09:43 <SpeedEvil> that's it.
Dec 15 03:09:53 <SpeedEvil> And no, you can't port it to other devices legally
Dec 15 03:11:44 <Intan_b> no support for n900 then ?
Dec 15 03:12:06 <SpeedEvil> No.
Dec 15 03:14:10 <Intan_b> btw n9 is really nice device with more appropriate os 
Dec 15 03:15:26 <Intan_b> would it got beta release anytime soon (harmattan)?
Dec 15 03:16:39 <SpeedEvil> It's been released on the n9
Dec 15 03:22:46 <luke-jr> Intan_b: it's been out for a while now
Dec 15 04:06:48 <merlin1991> omfg watching unforgettable: "what kind of video games do you like?" --> "Angry birds"
Dec 15 05:45:50 <DocScrutinizer> moo flks
Dec 15 05:46:12 <DocScrutinizer> pali: nice :-)
Dec 15 05:46:50 <dm8tbr> mmoooooo
Dec 15 05:53:56 <Technomike> hey guys got a little urgent problem here i need help with. when i go to download or save files on my n900, it shows the message 'Not Allowed' . i think its a problem with the file system or something because i was unraring an archive on my n900 earlier and it froze so i had to remove the battery. Its definetly something to do with that because it was fine beforehand.
Dec 15 05:54:19 <Technomike> would really appreciate any help at all
Dec 15 05:55:33 <dm8tbr> what does 'df' tell you? which filesystem is full?
Dec 15 05:56:03 <merlin1991> also what does mount tell you?
Dec 15 05:56:20 <merlin1991> especially the MyDocs part?
Dec 15 05:56:26 <merlin1991> Technomike: ^^
Dec 15 05:57:18 <merlin1991> MyDocs should be the line /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,...
Dec 15 05:57:23 <merlin1991> the rw part is important
Dec 15 05:57:28 <dm8tbr> my current best bet would be: FAT is corrupted and mounted RO
Dec 15 05:57:42 <merlin1991> yeah that's what where I was going with this :D
Dec 15 06:07:41 <Technomike> /dev/mmcblk0p1        28312128  27962944    349184  99% /home/user/MyDocs
Dec 15 06:08:08 <merlin1991> woha nice usage
Dec 15 06:08:13 <merlin1991> that might be the reason :D
Dec 15 06:08:32 <Technomike> sorry guys I am fairly noobish to be honest
Dec 15 06:09:13 <Technomike> haha well how can i find out if it is read only because that is what seems to be the case
Dec 15 06:09:38 <merlin1991> Technomike: check "mount" in x-term
Dec 15 06:09:38 <Technomike> /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir)
Dec 15 06:09:43 <merlin1991> that's read write
Dec 15 06:09:55 <merlin1991> but from your df output it seems to be almost full
Dec 15 06:10:05 <merlin1991> maybe remove one or two videos and try again ;)
Dec 15 06:11:04 <Technomike> well i just checked the disc usage in file manager and 341mb are free
Dec 15 06:11:38 <merlin1991> you can run df -h for mor readable solution
Dec 15 06:12:46 <merlin1991> and you should have no permission issue with MyDocs at least since it's mounted with uid=29999 which makes all access to it count as user
Dec 15 06:13:51 <merlin1991> Technomike: can you run "touch /home/user/MyDocs/awesometesetfile" ?
Dec 15 06:14:59 <Technomike> aha just tried to delete a file in the file manager and it said drive is read only
Dec 15 06:15:11 <merlin1991> that IS odd
Dec 15 06:15:20 <merlin1991> according to your mount it is still rw
Dec 15 06:15:29 * merlin1991 suggests a reboot
Dec 15 06:15:50 <merlin1991> if that does not work, save all data and only the fsck the partition
Dec 15 06:16:05 <merlin1991> fsck on maemo is a synonyme for fuck up ;)
Dec 15 06:16:15 <Technomike> touch: /home/user/MyDocs/awesometesetfile: Read-only file system
Dec 15 06:16:34 <dm8tbr> merlin1991: mount will not show if kernel remounted 'ro' for broken fs
Dec 15 06:16:46 <merlin1991> dm8tbr: silly, but I didn't know it
Dec 15 06:16:47 <Technomike> i have rebooted a few times
Dec 15 06:17:04 <dm8tbr> Technomike: attach to PC, do filesystem check
Dec 15 06:17:15 <Technomike> ah so basically i have gone and corrupted the fs then....
Dec 15 06:17:20 <dm8tbr> yes
Dec 15 06:17:21 <Technomike> damn
Dec 15 06:17:36 <Technomike> i have no access to a pc at the moment
Dec 15 06:17:37 <merlin1991> well then I suggest back up your data, using pc, and after that run fs test
Dec 15 06:18:12 <merlin1991> on the other hand if you don't need your data, then you can unmount MyDocs and run the fs check on the device
Dec 15 06:18:20 <merlin1991> risking complete dataloss
Dec 15 06:18:42 <Technomike> hmm just tried an sd card and even that is saying its read only but its definetly rw because its been in my phone
Dec 15 06:19:09 <merlin1991> does dmesg reveal anything weird?
Dec 15 06:20:35 <Technomike>  2684.582214] mmc0: cover is closed, card is now accessible
Dec 15 06:20:58 <Technomike>  2685.034179] mmc0: host does not support reading read-only switch. assuming write-enable.
Dec 15 06:21:17 <merlin1991> so far promising
Dec 15 06:27:03 <villager> merlin1991: in case you want to know, "cat /proc/mounts" would say what the kernel's view of the mount points are...
Dec 15 06:27:48 * merlin1991 wonders why "mount" reports something else
Dec 15 06:28:49 <villager> merlin1991: mount/umount records what they've mounted and unmounted into the file /etc/mtab, and the kernel doesn't update that file on its own
Dec 15 06:30:13 <merlin1991> one could call the man page for mount missleading then
Dec 15 06:30:24 <villager> merlin1991: it's possible to symlink /etc/mtab to /proc/mounts (I think some distros do it), but I think that has its own problems, probably with chroots and whatnot
Dec 15 06:30:42 <merlin1991> ... lists all mounted filesystems ... sounds like the current systemstate to me when I read it
Dec 15 06:33:28 <villager> merlin1991: well, in general it's true, the bootup scripts initializes mtab and all future mounting/unmount happens with mount/umount so it would update mtab, the kernel certainly doesn't do any trickery beyond error recovery
Dec 15 06:34:32 <villager> merlin1991: in some cases such as chroots, though, you probably really do want an independent list of mounted filesystems instead of the kernel one
Dec 15 06:35:06 <Technomike> is there a command that i could at least try to make it read-write
Dec 15 06:36:43 <villager> merlin1991: also /proc/mounts is a Linuxism, other Unix-type OSes only track stuff through /etc/mtab without providing any other straightforward way to get at the data
Dec 15 06:37:36 <villager> Technomike: the MyDocs or the SD?
Dec 15 06:38:20 <Technomike> MyDocs emmc
Dec 15 06:38:35 <dm8tbr> fsck, but that can lead to data loss
Dec 15 06:39:35 <villager> Technomike: if it's not already rw, it's probably not going to work... but yes, there's a command, something like "mount /home/user/MyDocs -o remount,rw" (as root)
Dec 15 06:40:11 <Technomike> hmmm just put the sd card back in phone and deleted a file and it works fine... so its read write
Dec 15 06:43:00 <Technomike> oh well tried it and no luck as you knew anyway
Dec 15 06:43:20 <Technomike> well looks like its a format tomorrow... :(
Dec 15 06:43:23 <villager> Technomike: did it say why or put anything interesting into dmesg?
Dec 15 06:43:53 <Technomike> nope
Dec 15 06:43:55 <Technomike> /home/user # mount /home/user/MyDocs -o remount,rw
Dec 15 06:44:11 <Technomike> pressed enter
Dec 15 06:44:12 <Technomike> and
Dec 15 06:44:14 <Technomike> /home/user #
Dec 15 06:44:40 <villager> Technomike: it doesn't say anything if it works, maybe it worked then?
Dec 15 06:44:54 <Technomike> ahhh
Dec 15 06:44:57 <Technomike> [ 4427.891143] FAT: Filesystem error (dev mmcblk0p1)
Dec 15 06:45:14 <Technomike> [ 4427.891174]     fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain (i_pos 0)
Dec 15 06:45:28 <Technomike> [ 4427.891204]     File system has been set read-only
Dec 15 06:45:36 <villager> Technomike: well I'd rather try fsck before going to the step of formatting
Dec 15 06:45:47 <Technomike> ok
Dec 15 06:45:53 <Technomike> where can i obtain it
Dec 15 06:46:14 <villager> Technomike: you already have it on the device I think
Dec 15 06:47:41 <Technomike> fsck 1.41.3.maemo0 (12-Oct-2008)
Dec 15 06:47:53 <villager> Technomike: you could try something like "fsck -t vfat -y /dev/mmcblk0p1" (the -y says "fix all errors even if it's risky")
Dec 15 06:48:00 <Technomike> thanks
Dec 15 06:48:35 <Technomike> is it really that risky though
Dec 15 06:48:54 <luke-jr> run without -y and it will ask you
Dec 15 06:49:15 <luke-jr> also unmount it first
Dec 15 06:49:19 <villager> Technomike: depends on the damage... only fsck will know... the -y just says that if it does discover it's risky, it won't ask and just do it
Dec 15 06:49:50 <Technomike> /home/user # fsck -t vfat /dev/mmcblk0p1
Dec 15 06:49:51 <Technomike> /bin/sh: fsck: not found
Dec 15 06:50:19 <Technomike> /bin/sh: fsck: not found
Dec 15 06:50:21 <Technomike> what have i done wrong?
Dec 15 06:50:24 <Sc0rpius> root?
Dec 15 06:50:40 <villager> Technomike: what about /sbin/fsck?
Dec 15 06:50:45 <Technomike> got it
Dec 15 06:50:55 <Technomike> (got root shell)
Dec 15 06:51:18 <Sc0rpius> well /sbin should be in root's PATH
Dec 15 06:51:29 <villager> Technomike: or skip the wrapper and do "fsck.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p1"
Dec 15 06:51:35 <Technomike> done it
Dec 15 06:52:14 <Technomike> There are differences between boot sector and its backup.
Dec 15 06:52:25 <Technomike> does that mean anything
Dec 15 06:53:26 <villager> probably something bad
Dec 15 06:54:01 <Technomike> yeah
Dec 15 06:54:11 <villager> did it ask whether you want to fix it?
Dec 15 06:54:52 <Technomike> FATs differ but appear to be intact. Use which FAT ?
Dec 15 06:55:05 <Technomike> i have 2 choices
Dec 15 06:55:33 <villager> yeah there's definitely been some corruption then
Dec 15 06:56:40 <Technomike> what would you do? try this or just use pc to backup and reformat
Dec 15 06:56:40 <Technomike> ?
Dec 15 06:56:47 <villager> any choice is risky and may lose data, but I'd probably choose fat number 1, as it's probably the one that's written first?
Dec 15 06:57:19 <villager> and therefore most up to date?
Dec 15 06:59:05 <villager> well, even if you tried to backup, the pc would have to read one of the FATs in order to do that backup, and it'd probably use FAT 1, so can't make things much worse to tell fsck to use it
Dec 15 07:00:53 <villager> have you had the phone suddenly shut down, lose power, or whatever, while it may have been writing data to the emmc? it might explain this
Dec 15 07:04:47 <Technomike> yep
Dec 15 07:05:26 <Technomike> i was extracting a rar archive on my n900 and it froze for 10min so i took the battery out
Dec 15 07:05:36 <villager> in that case it's probably not physical damage to the emmc, and fsck will only lose whatever file was being written at the time
Dec 15 07:06:35 <Technomike> ah thats great
Dec 15 07:06:49 <Technomike> so it should be fine to do this now then
Dec 15 07:07:26 <villager> probably
Dec 15 07:21:38 <Technomike> villager and everyone else
Dec 15 07:22:00 <Technomike> many thanks for your help. i will just backup on pc and format tomorrow.
Dec 15 08:16:41 <DocScrutinizer> (<Sc0rpius> well /sbin should be in root's PATH) only when invoked via 'root', not though when invoked via 'sudo gainroot'
Dec 15 09:20:28 <pfavr> I've figured out how to close notifications using dbus, just use: mdbus2 org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.CloseNotification 23
Dec 15 09:20:50 <pfavr> This closes the notification with id 23
Dec 15 11:25:00 <jazedal> There seems to be an IPC error with gpg-agent on the n900.
Dec 15 11:28:19 <niv_> hi, how can I force the N900 to use AGPS and not GPS?
Dec 15 11:28:40 <niv_> I mean that screen that asks whether to get info from my cellular provider
Dec 15 11:36:30 <niv_> when you first use the N900 and turn the gps on , a window asks whether you like to use the cellular info for the gps
Dec 15 11:36:37 <niv_> how to get this screen?
Dec 15 11:37:13 <SpeedEvil> settings -> location -> network positioning
Dec 15 11:37:46 <SpeedEvil> I'm fairly sure that's what that is using.
Dec 15 11:38:17 <SpeedEvil> If you are having rrouble with the GPS, make sure the clock s set about right, and place it in view of the sky (note that some windows are not GPS tranparent) for 13 mintues.
Dec 15 11:54:53 <jazedal> gpg-agent works when you launch a sub-shell (e.g. gpg-agent --daemon /bin/bash), but it otherwise errs.  For example, with the command line, "gpg -d secret.txt.gpg", it outputs, "gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use", and with the command line, "gpg-agent", it outputs "gpg-agent: can't connect to the agent: IPC connect call failed". Has anyone else had this issue?
Dec 15 11:57:01 <jazedal> Oh, and the environment variables were set (i.e. eval `gpg-agent --daemon`).
Dec 15 12:55:03 <jazedal> uit
Dec 15 12:55:55 <niv_> speedEvil: this is plain gps
Dec 15 12:56:13 <niv_> speedEvil: I want to use AGPS and the cellular tower init info
Dec 15 12:56:44 <ruskie> niv_, I believe agps is only used to jumpstart the normal gps
Dec 15 12:58:22 <niv_> right ruskie
Dec 15 12:58:37 <niv_> and so the time to get a fix is a min
Dec 15 12:58:48 <niv_> I get five minutes
Dec 15 12:59:07 <niv_> and only when I see a lot of sky outdoor
Dec 15 12:59:32 <niv_> i dont think the setting/location/network is the answer
Dec 15 12:59:45 <ruskie> you in the middle of a city? out on a grassy hill? middle of a forest?
Dec 15 12:59:51 <ruskie> inside of a building?
Dec 15 13:00:11 <niv_> on the street buildings a two floors
Dec 15 13:00:16 <niv_> lots of sky
Dec 15 13:00:38 <niv_> inittal location is far away from me
Dec 15 13:00:41 <ruskie> hmm that sounds broken... what apgs server do you have in your settings?
Dec 15 13:00:47 <niv_> it allways starts there
Dec 15 13:00:52 <ruskie> I think the inital location is set to when it last had a good lock
Dec 15 13:00:52 <niv_> 100km from here
Dec 15 13:01:11 <niv_> not in my case
Dec 15 13:01:20 <niv_> int. gps
Dec 15 13:08:50 <DocScrutinizer51> niv_: change supl server to google
Dec 15 13:09:03 <DocScrutinizer51> most likely will fix things
Dec 15 13:09:13 <DocScrutinizer51> and make sure your time is correct
Dec 15 13:11:34 <DocScrutinizer51> initial loc either from agps and agps/supl/gsm, or from last fix
Dec 15 13:12:21 <DocScrutinizer51> 100km off might mean it locates you at center of your country according to GSM CC
Dec 15 13:12:31 <DocScrutinizer51> or TZ
Dec 15 13:12:36 <DocScrutinizer51> or whatever
Dec 15 13:15:06 <DocScrutinizer51> good enough for (A)GPS
Dec 15 13:15:23 <DocScrutinizer51> check your time, your supl server
Dec 15 13:15:40 <DocScrutinizer51> supl.nokia.com known to be broken 
Dec 15 14:20:32 <kodomo_> hi folks... does anyone happen to know whether the N900 VoIP client supports SRTP? 
Dec 15 14:20:59 <kodomo_> at least it seems to support SIP/TLS...
Dec 15 14:25:37 <Sicelo> doesn't. as far as i can gather
Dec 15 14:27:17 <niv_> DocScrutinizer51: thanks, was away , eatting
Dec 15 14:30:42 <kodomo_> Sicelo: ic - as far as I get it, not even the regular telepathy supports it for now...
Dec 15 14:33:47 <Sicelo> exactly... that's how i knew n900 doesn't. it's voip client is (based on) telepathy
Dec 15 14:34:44 <kodomo_> hm... I guess I'll hop to #telepathy and ask them whether it's a planned feature :P
Dec 15 14:35:29 <kodomo_> It's a bit of a surprise that it doesn't - given that libraries exist.
Dec 15 16:26:39 <MohammadAG> anyone good at graphing functions?
Dec 15 16:27:44 <bindi> y=x
Dec 15 16:27:46 <bindi> what do i win
Dec 15 16:27:53 <luke-jr> new N900s for $200: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124444
Dec 15 16:28:02 <MohammadAG> |x| + |y| = 5
Dec 15 16:28:05 <MohammadAG> I need that drawn
Dec 15 16:28:14 <bindi> havent heard of worfram alpha?
Dec 15 16:28:21 <bindi> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=+%7Cx%7C+%2B+%7Cy%7C+%3D+5+
Dec 15 16:30:47 <MohammadAG> bindi, can I plot two equations together?
Dec 15 16:31:41 <bindi> i guess 
Dec 15 16:31:45 <bindi> try seperating with comma
Dec 15 16:33:12 <MohammadAG> that site is awesome
Dec 15 16:33:23 <bindi> you can also make something like plot {x^2, sqrt(x)}, x=0..2  
Dec 15 16:35:09 <MohammadAG> this is weird though http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=plot+%7Cx%7C+%2B+%7Cy%7C+%3D+3%2C+x%5E2+%2B%7Cy%7C+%3D5
Dec 15 16:35:21 <bindi> lol
Dec 15 16:41:27 <MohammadAG> wow
Dec 15 16:41:33 <MohammadAG> bought an iOS app to help me
Dec 15 16:41:42 <MohammadAG> it's awesome, with lybniz was as powerful
Dec 15 16:41:55 <javispedro> did it cost $99999?
Dec 15 16:41:59 <MohammadAG> 2
Dec 15 16:42:19 <MohammadAG> but it draws 3D stuff and allows manipulation
Dec 15 16:42:32 <MohammadAG> (by 3D I meant X/Y/Z planes)
Dec 15 16:43:03 * javispedro runs SpaceTime on GarnetVM
Dec 15 16:46:44 <javispedro> MohammadAG, any suggestions to deal with N950 abstinence syndrome?
Dec 15 16:53:33 <MohammadAG> javispedro, what?
Dec 15 16:53:54 <MohammadAG> ah
Dec 15 16:54:01 <MohammadAG> javispedro, yeah, buy an iPhone
Dec 15 16:54:06 <MohammadAG> worked fine for me
Dec 15 17:09:03 <DocScrutinizer51> javispedro: hi!
Dec 15 17:11:23 <javispedro> hi
Dec 15 17:11:50 <javispedro> og, dual-core a5 chip
Dec 15 17:11:57 <javispedro> all-new 8mp camera
Dec 15 17:12:04 <javispedro> and siri!
Dec 15 17:13:22 <MohammadAG> ooh http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/platform-api-reference/xml/daily-docs/libmeegotouch/class_m_page_switch_animation.html
Dec 15 17:13:31 <ShadowJK> is A5 the low power core for the asymmetric multicore thing?
Dec 15 17:13:41 <RST38h> moooo javispedro
Dec 15 17:13:46 <MohammadAG> afaik it's based on the ARM-A9
Dec 15 17:13:50 <ShadowJK> Oh, apple a5 not cortex a5?
Dec 15 17:13:53 <javispedro> moo RST38h 
Dec 15 17:13:53 <luke-jr> I don't suppose anyone's looked into these "scheduling while atomic" bugs in Fremantle/power?
Dec 15 17:13:55 <RST38h> any news?
Dec 15 17:13:59 <MohammadAG> javispedro, 4S sucks, get a 4 :P
Dec 15 17:14:48 <MohammadAG> javispedro, 
Dec 15 17:14:54 <MohammadAG> I want a consistent header across my app
Dec 15 17:14:56 <javispedro> RST38h, naaah, I am also N950less due to dead pixels
Dec 15 17:15:29 <javispedro> MohammadAG, hah, I once wanted that too, but gave up
Dec 15 17:17:25 <MohammadAG> javispedro, https://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/libmeegotouch/blobs/master/demos/widgetsgallery/viewheaderpage.cpp (!!)
Dec 15 17:17:37 <MohammadAG> sadly it's on a window basis
Dec 15 17:18:35 <javispedro> interesting...
Dec 15 17:19:13 <RST38h> javispedro: this dead pixel thing scares me
Dec 15 17:19:19 * RST38h looks at n950 anxiously
Dec 15 17:19:52 <luke-jr> O.o
Dec 15 17:19:56 <luke-jr> dead pixels = useless?
Dec 15 17:20:11 <luke-jr> javispedro: I never got a N950.
Dec 15 17:21:09 <luke-jr> hum, maybe ramzswap is related to the sched while atomic bug? but mine DID look different :/
Dec 15 17:21:10 <javispedro> luke-jr, the blobs kept growing
Dec 15 17:21:16 <MohammadAG> when half the pixels go...
Dec 15 17:21:16 <luke-jr> javispedro: ew
Dec 15 17:25:20 <javispedro> it was nowhere near "half the pixels" but in three weeks it went from a few pixels to nearly a full line
Dec 15 17:26:40 <javispedro> so I worried that if I kept waiting DDP might eventually forget about the device entirely
Dec 15 17:46:16 <MohammadAG> ffs
Dec 15 17:50:51 <MohammadAG> MTF ALWAYS crashes my app for no reason
Dec 15 18:33:57 <RST38h> Meanwhile: A Chinese neighbourhood was contaminated with human waste after an explosion caused by sewage-stealing thieves.
Dec 15 18:35:46 <MohammadAG> LOL
Dec 15 18:45:17 <rd> chem|st, replacing the display revived my n900. Thanks a lot for the guidance in narrowing down the problem.
Dec 15 18:45:33 <rd> (now I have a good reason to continue building navit packages for the n900 :-)
Dec 15 19:13:32 <Jef91> It seems the charging port on my n900 no longer wants to work
Dec 15 19:13:54 <Jef91> Any ideas why that might be or do I need to crack it open?
Dec 15 19:14:31 <Proteous> hopefully the usb jack hasn't become unsoldered from the board
Dec 15 19:14:34 <ShadowJK> Most likely the port came off
Dec 15 19:15:37 <ShadowJK> Some people report their usb data cable still charges their N900s when that happens. Might just be because it applies pressure slightly differently
Dec 15 19:15:53 <ShadowJK> but I'd be nervous to try, since if it's unused it'll be alot tighter and probably dislodge the port completely
Dec 15 19:16:17 <Jef91> yea if I angle it right it appears to charge
Dec 15 19:16:29 <ShadowJK> so it's loose
Dec 15 19:16:33 <Jef91> man I was really hoping to get another year out of this
Dec 15 19:16:36 <ShadowJK> the port is about to fall off but hasn't quite fallen off yet
Dec 15 19:17:27 <Jef91> nothing to be done about it then?
Dec 15 19:17:33 <Jef91> Just piss poor nokia hardware?
Dec 15 19:17:48 <ShadowJK> A professional electronics repairman might be able to save it as long as it hasn't detached completely..
Dec 15 19:18:06 <ShadowJK> and a risky procedure 
Dec 15 19:18:16 <Jef91> well it out it the n900 is just a brick right?
Dec 15 19:18:46 <ShadowJK> Some people have a few batteries that they cycle through external chargers
Dec 15 19:19:21 <Pali> ping X-Fade
Dec 15 19:19:43 <Pali> ~seen X-Fade
Dec 15 19:19:51 <infobot> x-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego. Has said a total of 26 messages. Is idling for 1d 3h 19m 33s, last said: 'pawky: yes'.
Dec 15 19:20:34 <Jef91> Well I do have a second n900
Dec 15 19:21:04 <Jef91> swapping batteries around might work I guess
Dec 15 19:21:16 <Jef91> Where can I get an external charger from?
Dec 15 19:21:21 * ShadowJK has a external charger ready for the day when his N900s ejects usb ports
Dec 15 19:22:02 <ShadowJK> here's a selection of stuff http://www.eastmaze.com/product/product_list.php?search_in_description=1&x=0&y=0&keyword=BL-5J
Dec 15 19:24:25 <Jef91> thanks shadowjk
Dec 15 20:12:50 <DocScrutinizer> ~usbfix
Dec 15 20:12:51 <infobot> from memory, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)
Dec 15 20:13:00 <DocScrutinizer> Jef91: ^^^
Dec 15 20:14:07 <Jef91> thanks docscrutinizer
Dec 15 20:14:12 <DocScrutinizer> yw
Dec 15 20:15:36 <niwakame> someone experienced discharging at N900 while switched off?
Dec 15 20:15:50 <DocScrutinizer> may happen
Dec 15 20:16:05 <DocScrutinizer> not all subsystems of N900 are force-shutdown
Dec 15 20:16:26 <niwakame> have to remove the battery then next time
Dec 15 20:16:49 <DocScrutinizer> some contact directly to battery and have no direct /SHUTDOWN pin
Dec 15 20:17:57 <DocScrutinizer> xso if your device didn't shut down "normally" (but rather crashed to off or sth, hard shutdown by 8s powerbutton hold), you might find some subsystems still eating power
Dec 15 20:18:18 <niwakame> I just shut it down by power button
Dec 15 20:18:42 <DocScrutinizer> also the main (APE) system as well can enter a state where device *seems* to be off but actually isn't. Frequently seen on stall reboots
Dec 15 20:19:16 <niwakame> I removed the battery for extracting the SIM card and put it back in :/
Dec 15 20:19:37 <DocScrutinizer> NB in that regard plugged-in charger makes device *always* reboot
Dec 15 20:19:57 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Dec 15 20:20:08 <DocScrutinizer> inserting battery sometimes can cause this
Dec 15 20:20:26 <niwakame> Would be interesting if that happens too when connecting USB, but other end is not connected to charger / PC
Dec 15 20:20:36 <DocScrutinizer> you should always boot up the device after inserting battery, then shut it down if that's what you want
Dec 15 20:20:58 <niwakame> Ok, I will do that next time :) thanks
Dec 15 20:21:13 <DocScrutinizer> niwakame: no, there's simply no way the device could detect a open-ended cable in USB
Dec 15 20:21:20 <niwakame> So it was really taken down by my N9...somehow
Dec 15 20:21:23 <niwakame> :P
Dec 15 20:22:26 <DocScrutinizer> niwakame: when inserting battery, all the subsystems that are directly powered by battery may enter an undefined state
Dec 15 20:22:31 <DocScrutinizer> e.g whole modem
Dec 15 20:23:40 <DocScrutinizer> on booting up APE all those subsystems will see proper initialization, and will usually behave on next shutdown
Dec 15 20:24:34 <niwakame> strange
Dec 15 20:24:43 <DocScrutinizer> normal
Dec 15 20:24:50 <niwakame> in design terms
Dec 15 20:25:42 <niwakame> Like the "You can't charge the device when it's not charged" because the charging is managed by CPU / some other part that needs juice inside
Dec 15 20:25:45 <DocScrutinizer> nah, it's simply like there's no urgent need to have a 100% safe and rock solid POR circuitry on all subsystems
Dec 15 20:25:59 <DocScrutinizer> niwakame: that's BS
Dec 15 20:26:13 <DocScrutinizer> ~flatbatrecover
Dec 15 20:26:13 <infobot> Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover
Dec 15 20:26:42 <niwakame> Never experienced myself, just seeing ppl complaining at the forum
Dec 15 20:26:47 <niwakame> But good to know
Dec 15 20:27:10 <DocScrutinizer> emphasis on "Nokia wallwart fastcharger"
Dec 15 20:27:53 <DocScrutinizer> it actually won't charge from PC USB host, as for USB ENUM *obviously* the CPU and system needs to be up and running
Dec 15 20:29:06 <DocScrutinizer> (well, you might be lucky and it _does_ charge form PC nevertheless, but it's neither guaranteed nor officially supported)
Dec 15 20:29:55 <DocScrutinizer> but flatbatrecover emergency charging with the steady amber is a mere hw thing, that can't usually fail
Dec 15 20:30:07 <niwakame> ok
Dec 15 20:31:27 <DocScrutinizer> doom starts when the system kicks in after emergency charging did it's job. Then if you got a rootfs that's borked then you can't get charging to continue as booting to system stops emergency charging hw and switches to "sw-controlled charging"
Dec 15 20:32:11 <DocScrutinizer> its job*
Dec 15 20:34:34 <DocScrutinizer> and the BAD[TM] thing is that flashing a clean rootfs will fail at battery levels you could reach by hw driven emergency charging, so THAT is the well known flat battery boot loop, a vicious circle that is the reason for "WARNING!! charge your battery completely before any flashing"
Dec 15 20:35:22 <DocScrutinizer> see
Dec 15 20:35:27 <DocScrutinizer> ~flashing
Dec 15 20:35:27 <infobot> it has been said that maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Dec 15 20:37:30 <niwakame> I humbly request to stop the information flow towards me, because I will get a bad conscience not answering and do say to thee: Thank you for all previous enlighting information ;)
Dec 15 20:45:36 <DocScrutinizer> a pleasure
Dec 15 20:46:06 <niwakame> :)
Dec 15 20:46:11 <DocScrutinizer> and get your USB port fixed! :-D
Dec 15 20:46:41 <niwakame> mine?
Dec 15 20:46:44 <DocScrutinizer> check the plug of the cable, contacts might be worn out or bent or dirty
Dec 15 20:46:59 <DocScrutinizer> ooh sorry
Dec 15 20:47:05 <niwakame> That's rock solid since day one :P
Dec 15 20:47:07 <DocScrutinizer> nope, was menat to Jef91 
Dec 15 20:47:15 <DocScrutinizer> meant*
Dec 15 20:48:19 <psychologe> DocScrutinizer, has a shortcuts to forward history on microB?
Dec 15 20:48:36 <DocScrutinizer> errr
Dec 15 20:48:44 <Jef91> I tried several cables doc
Dec 15 20:48:46 <niwakame> ~shortcuts
Dec 15 20:48:47 <infobot> well, shortcuts is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures
Dec 15 20:49:01 <niwakame> ...just trying, worked for DocScrutinizer xD
Dec 15 20:49:04 <DocScrutinizer> lol, thanks niwakame 
Dec 15 20:49:36 <DocScrutinizer> ~factinfo shortcuts
Dec 15 20:49:36 <infobot> shortcuts -- created by odin_ <n=dlm@93-97-168-38.zone5.bethere.co.uk> at Sat Dec  5 16:10:16 2009 (740 days); it has been requested 2 times, last by niwakame, 49s ago.
Dec 15 20:51:46 <psychologe> infobot, when microB on fullscreen mode , i want use keyboard forwrd history,,,i can use backspace key back history,but i don't kown any key forward
Dec 15 20:53:31 <psychologe> Shift+Backsapce can't forward history on MicroB
Dec 15 20:54:38 <infobot> shrugs
Dec 15 20:54:51 * niwakame laughs
Dec 15 20:55:12 <niwakame> But I don't know either, I just clicked on the link again to forward
Dec 15 22:05:18 <troulouliou_dev> is there any news , link about a future linux phone/project  to replace the N900 with a keyboard
Dec 16 00:35:58 <federico2> hi there
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