**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 24 02:59:57 2011
Dec 24 03:17:15 <happymonkey> so does anyone know what the matter is then, lzma -dv debian-m5-v3d.img.ext2.lzma
Dec 24 03:17:15 <happymonkey> lzma: Decoder error
Dec 24 03:17:23 <happymonkey> if the image is good
Dec 24 03:17:35 <happymonkey> is it a free memory thing?
Dec 24 07:30:59 <Minze> hi there
Dec 24 07:32:41 <Minze> is there yet a release of alien dalvik for the N900 or N9 
Dec 24 07:33:07 <Minze> or some community driven project alike alien dalvik?
Dec 24 12:43:29 <n900-tw> Test
Dec 24 12:45:52 <merlin1991> test back
Dec 24 12:47:01 <n900-tw> Using pidgin on n900 for irc, not much area left to view the chat
Dec 24 12:47:11 <n900-tw> Xchat gives more view
Dec 24 13:02:13 <Pali> ping X-Fade
Dec 24 13:02:47 <Pali> ~seen X-Fade
Dec 24 13:02:54 <infobot> x-fade is currently on #maemo (1d 4h 51m 46s) #harmattan (1d 4h 51m 46s) #meego (1d 4h 51m 46s). Has said a total of 41 messages. Is idling for 23h 32m 4s, last said: 'gri: Security through obscurity is always a false sense.'.
Dec 24 13:05:43 <Macer> well at least the last thing he said was rather philosophical
Dec 24 13:05:45 <Macer> lol
Dec 24 13:05:54 <Macer> tech zen
Dec 24 13:25:39 <swiftkick> does the n900 support HSDPA ?
Dec 24 13:26:25 <auenf> iirc, yes
Dec 24 13:26:30 <auenf> 10/2
Dec 24 13:29:07 <bindi> uh
Dec 24 13:29:11 <bindi> i'm pretty sure it's 14.4
Dec 24 13:29:29 <bindi> actually, i'm sure :p
Dec 24 13:30:20 <auenf> "3 Maximum speed up to 10 Mbps (DL).
Dec 24 13:30:21 <auenf> 4 Maximum speed up to 2 Mbps (UL). "
Dec 24 13:30:24 <auenf> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N900/
Dec 24 13:30:35 <bindi> i've hit 14 Mbps on 3G
Dec 24 13:30:53 <auenf> not with n900
Dec 24 13:30:56 <bindi> yes
Dec 24 13:31:05 <bindi> exactly with N900
Dec 24 13:31:31 <auenf> bits or bytes?
Dec 24 13:31:37 <bindi> I can give you a speedtest of somesort if you remind me this night, when people are sleeping and I get full speed 
Dec 24 13:31:53 <bindi> b for bits
Dec 24 13:32:38 <bindi> http://www.nokia.com/us-en/products/phone/nokia-n900/specifications/
Dec 24 13:32:41 <bindi> Hardware
Dec 24 13:32:46 <bindi> 2 Requires data service. Data services may not be available in all networks. Data transmission speeds may be as high as HSDPA 14.4 Mbps
Dec 24 13:33:08 <auenf> "HSPA, maximum speed up to 10 Mbps (DL), 2 Mbps (UL)"
Dec 24 13:33:16 <bindi> Data transmission speeds may be as high as HSDPA 14.4 Mbps
Dec 24 13:36:08 <auenf> wouldnt be suprised if that footnote is left over from another model
Dec 24 13:37:06 <auenf> http://www.nokia.com/us-en/products/phone/nokia-2320-classic/specifications/
Dec 24 13:37:28 <auenf> if you take that footnote literally, then a 2G only device can transfer at 14.4
Dec 24 13:37:29 <bindi> I have first-hand experience of receiving 14.4 Mbps on an N900
Dec 24 13:37:50 <auenf> err, 2.75G, but point still stands
Dec 24 13:38:29 <auenf> looks like its a generic footnote on all phones
Dec 24 13:38:49 <SpeedEvil> bindi: wow
Dec 24 13:39:22 <auenf> http://www.nokia.com/us-en/products/phone/nokia-1616/specifications/
Dec 24 13:39:32 <auenf> awesome, 14.4 on a phone with no data capability
Dec 24 13:39:51 <bindi> :p
Dec 24 13:40:05 <bindi> I can give you a 1GBnull wget or a speedtest.net result at midnight
Dec 24 13:44:15 <auenf> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=622457&postcount=17
Dec 24 17:27:33 <merlin1991> ~iow
Dec 24 17:27:34 <infobot> iow is, like, In Other Words
Dec 24 17:55:19 <Venemo> hey
Dec 24 17:55:30 <Venemo> is the CSSU anywhere near stable enough to be worth bothering with?
Dec 24 17:56:34 <NIN102> CSSU has a stable branch
Dec 24 17:56:52 <NIN102> so the answer is probably: yes. 
Dec 24 17:56:56 * NIN102 afk. 
Dec 24 17:56:58 <Venemo> mmhm
Dec 24 18:12:05 <merlin1991> Venemo: stable cssu is stable enough to be worth bothering with
Dec 24 18:12:18 * merlin1991 can say that since he is responsible for cssu stable ;)
Dec 24 18:32:43 <Venemo> merlin1991, all right, installing it now :)
Dec 24 18:33:09 <merlin1991> Venemo: in case you have mhd installed get rid of it before installing cssu
Dec 24 18:33:53 <Venemo> merlin1991, I'm giving my N900 to my father. he is not too much of a tech enthusiast, but he wants to have a phone with which he can browse the web.
Dec 24 18:34:20 <Venemo> merlin1991, I myself had been using the cssu-testing since its inception :)
Dec 24 18:34:24 <merlin1991> :)
Dec 24 18:34:37 <merlin1991> what are you using now? n9?
Dec 24 18:34:49 <Venemo> well, I have both the N950 and the Lumia, and not enough free time to hack on the N900 anymore
Dec 24 18:35:19 <Venemo> unfortunately I don't have the N9
Dec 24 18:36:03 <merlin1991> well you can't hack on it at all
Dec 24 18:36:14 <Venemo> hmm?
Dec 24 18:36:23 <merlin1991> ssh and you're fine, but doing stuff on the device with the vkbd sucks
Dec 24 18:37:17 <Venemo> true. but as I said, I don't have it.
Dec 24 18:37:43 <BluesLee> Venemo: are you developing for the lumia?
Dec 24 18:38:30 <Venemo> BluesLee, not specifically for the Lumia, but I've been working on a WP7 project, yes.
Dec 24 18:39:15 <BluesLee> Venemo: i have also a lumia, i mean i am not proud of having a wp device but i have this guy
Dec 24 18:39:58 <Venemo> BluesLee, to be honest, the Lumia 800 feels a lot like a finished product than the N950. I can't comment on the N9 though, as I don't have one.
Dec 24 18:40:11 <BluesLee> Venemo: but compared to my n9 its good enough for a drawer
Dec 24 18:40:17 <Venemo> hehehe
Dec 24 18:41:03 <BluesLee> honestly, its about 99,9% in a drawer, there are so many things i dislike and i used it only for 10 minutes
Dec 24 18:41:49 <Venemo> for example?
Dec 24 18:42:20 <BluesLee> m$ bought skype for several billions, its well integrated in all os'es, guess on which os its not available so far?
Dec 24 18:43:26 <BluesLee> you can add weather tiles to the "home" screen but the tile does not update you with wearther informations, i would expect this
Dec 24 18:44:12 <BluesLee> m$ restricts the developer too much to theri standards
Dec 24 18:44:40 <Venemo> heh, well
Dec 24 18:44:47 <Venemo> I've been a .NET dev for a long time
Dec 24 18:45:09 <BluesLee> you cant update web informations on a regular basis (only >=30 minutes) but you may use therir push services
Dec 24 18:45:31 <BluesLee> tiles have to be 173x173 etc etc
Dec 24 18:47:27 <BluesLee> i wish nokia the very best with wp, i dont think that they will succeed with that, only if they modify the ui
Dec 24 18:48:02 <BluesLee> harmattan is much, much more intuitive
Dec 24 18:49:58 <BluesLee> how do you switch from the "event" screen to the "app" screen? have a look http://triangle-ware.net/wp-content/uploads/Windows-Phone-7.jpg
Dec 24 18:50:22 <ruskie> si this is now #wp
Dec 24 18:50:24 <ruskie> ?
Dec 24 18:50:44 <BluesLee> ruskie: yeah, i am talking about wp
Dec 24 18:52:47 <BluesLee> it would be interesting to know how many lumias nokia sold so far
Dec 24 19:36:17 <Vanadis__> NIN102, kommen Sie bitte in den anderen Kanal
Dec 24 19:36:23 <Vanadis__> es ist Weihnachten
Dec 24 20:18:02 <DocScrutinizer> xmess
Dec 24 22:57:38 <jacks_n900> how do I turn off sound quickly
Dec 24 22:57:47 <jacks_n900> n900
Dec 24 22:58:26 <NIN102> touch the clock, chose the profile.
Dec 24 22:59:09 <jacks_n900> eg when a website suddenly makes sound
Dec 24 22:59:14 <jacks_n900> noise
Dec 24 22:59:18 <jacks_n900> music
Dec 24 23:01:32 <jacks_n900> or can you set to turn sound off by turning your phone up side down
Dec 24 23:02:59 <jacks_n900> ?
Dec 24 23:12:00 * jacks_n900 night
Dec 24 23:47:11 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, drive-by asker
Dec 24 23:49:04 <DocScrutinizer> actually stopping sound from webpages by "turning upside down" was interesting a thing to check. On my Samsung OMNIA I had to disable this function as it introduced dropouts into music playback from mp3 when phone was in my pocket while walking :-/
Dec 24 23:49:49 <ShadowJK> flashblock
Dec 24 23:49:54 <DocScrutinizer> I think the fastest way always is VOL- button
Dec 24 23:50:03 <ShadowJK> unless it zooms
Dec 24 23:50:15 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, on webpages yeah
Dec 24 23:50:26 <DocScrutinizer> it will prolly zoom rather than hush
Dec 24 23:51:44 <DocScrutinizer> flashblock would be nice if it acts immediately on already loaded/rendered webpages and was easily accessible
Dec 24 23:52:31 <DocScrutinizer> I could figure about a powerbutton menu entry to start some script that tears down audio all together
Dec 24 23:52:54 <DocScrutinizer> like in killall pulseaudio or sth ;-P
Dec 24 23:53:31 <ShadowJK> adblock-css makes flash require a tap before it starts
Dec 24 23:53:46 <DocScrutinizer> I actually don't think turning-upside-down works for anything except ringtone
Dec 24 23:54:23 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: won't help when you learn by ears that this flash media starts nasty sound
Dec 24 23:54:28 <ShadowJK> auto-rotate pisses me off when I'm lying on the side in my bed trying to read stuff, and it's always 90 degrees off
Dec 24 23:54:35 <ShadowJK> yeah
Dec 24 23:55:19 <DocScrutinizer> auto rotate pisses me off all the time
Dec 24 23:55:40 <jacekowski> i remember that my windows mobile PDA had dedicate button for that
Dec 24 23:55:56 <jacekowski> no auto rotation
Dec 24 23:56:30 <DocScrutinizer> that's why I refused to upgrade CSSU until they promeised they will walk me thru all the gconf foo to stop it ever rotating except for dialer
Dec 24 23:57:28 <DocScrutinizer> microB still autorotates but I guess I have to live with that until I find out how to blacklist it or sth
Dec 24 23:59:00 <DocScrutinizer> I lovingly and epically explained several times to everybody involved what'S the problem with autorotation, accelerometer&mce, and a way to block it and nail it to a certain orientation
Dec 25 00:01:11 <DocScrutinizer> apps directly reading accelerometer do it wrong anyway
Dec 25 00:02:25 <DocScrutinizer> mce not providing a separate physical-orientation and logical-orientation info doesn't help either
Dec 25 00:03:03 <DocScrutinizer> and every app inventing a new sheme to deal with all this makes things a complete mess
Dec 25 00:04:41 <DocScrutinizer> basically we'd need an orientationd that gets queried by the particular app and returns individual instructions regarding what orientation this app shall use, and we needed to patch all apps that use any other method
Dec 25 00:05:51 <DocScrutinizer> alternatively HD could change aspect ratio of X display according to what app is in foreground
Dec 25 00:06:35 <DocScrutinizer> and of course according to the settings-for-this-app * accelerometer * global-override
Dec 25 00:08:56 <ShadowJK> the issue with making it overly complex is that then people reinvent new things :/
Dec 25 00:09:02 <DocScrutinizer> MCE's notion about orientation is pretty bad anyway, triggering a rotation when I hold the device with 15° tilted to the right from a flat screen-up
Dec 25 00:09:46 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: the complexity has to be covered by an ultrasimple API for that orientationd
Dec 25 00:10:08 <DocScrutinizer> dbus allows to find out about sender of a msg
Dec 25 00:11:55 <DocScrutinizer> so you (the app) send a dbus-msg_query_displayorientation to orientationd, and you get a simple answer of a degrees-value the display shall get rotated
Dec 25 00:12:43 <DocScrutinizer> usually sth like either 0, 90, 270, or even 180
Dec 25 00:14:17 <DocScrutinizer> on later orientation changes of the device or its global settings (read: override switch), orientationd will send unsolicited msgs to inform the app about the need to rotate
Dec 25 00:14:46 <DocScrutinizer> this is done via msgs, not signals
Dec 25 00:15:01 <DocScrutinizer> so each app gets the msg it needs
Dec 25 00:16:07 <DocScrutinizer> since dbus also has a way to notice termination of clients, orientationd will always know when an app process has quit and doesn't need further unsolicited msgs 
Dec 25 00:18:33 <DocScrutinizer> not that an attempt to send a msg to a process that already vanished would go unnoticed by the sender, here orientationd
Dec 25 00:20:55 <DocScrutinizer> for existing apps not complying with the whole scheme, we might find a way to do something similar to what fsoraw resource allocation wrapper does for resources needed by apps
Dec 25 00:21:49 <DocScrutinizer> maybe even along the line of LD_PRELOAD
Dec 25 00:26:25 <badcloud> how to revert back to stock bootloader?
Dec 25 00:26:55 <badcloud> I uninstalled uboot but still see the same ui on boot (penguin, countdown, etc)
Dec 25 00:27:03 <badcloud> not that it matters THAT much
Dec 25 00:27:32 <ShadowJK> Before you mess with these kinds of things, have everything backed up so you can cope with the device becoming unbootable
Dec 25 00:27:53 <ShadowJK> Then I'd guess the way is to install the normal maemo kernel
Dec 25 00:27:56 <badcloud> ShadowJK: oh, I did make a full backup
Dec 25 00:44:56 <DocScrutinizer> badcloud: since uBoot lives in same partition as kernel, it can't get uninstalled - much like you can't uninstall powerkernel. You need to flash another kernel to replace the uboot+<whatever_kernel>
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 25 02:59:57 2011