**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 30 02:59:57 2011
Dec 30 06:23:41 <Sicelo> http://htcdev.com/bootloader
Dec 30 10:31:13 <merlin1991> ~seen MohammadAG
Dec 30 10:31:20 <infobot> mohammadag is currently on #maemo #meego, last said: 'The pieces were transparent?'.
Dec 30 10:33:00 <Pali> ping X-Fade
Dec 30 10:33:00 <Pali> ~seen X-Fade
Dec 30 10:33:01 <infobot> x-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego, last said: 'gri: Security through obscurity is always a false sense.'.
Dec 30 10:59:05 <Blat-> hey all
Dec 30 12:43:07 <badcloud_> has anyone here successfully implimented bash history? not in sh, in bash
Dec 30 12:43:25 <SpeedEvil> umm - what?
Dec 30 12:43:40 <SpeedEvil> Bash history is in bash.
Dec 30 12:43:43 <psycho_oreos> what's that supposed to mean? when you install bash and you chsh to bash you should get .bash_history file under ~ directory
Dec 30 12:43:48 <badcloud_> I've tried 'shopt -s histappend' and exiting term with ctrl-d
Dec 30 12:44:03 <SpeedEvil> What are you trying to do?
Dec 30 12:44:08 <badcloud_> psycho_oreos: it's not working for some reason
Dec 30 12:44:23 <badcloud_> SpeedEvil: trying to have bash hist
Dec 30 12:44:25 <DocScrutinizer> WFM
Dec 30 12:44:30 <SpeedEvil> WFMT
Dec 30 12:44:43 <badcloud_> Whaaat
Dec 30 12:45:06 <psycho_oreos> badcloud_, which bash version are you using?
Dec 30 12:45:48 <DocScrutinizer> bash3 atm
Dec 30 12:45:51 <DocScrutinizer> iirc
Dec 30 12:45:59 <DocScrutinizer> always worked
Dec 30 12:46:01 <badcloud_> 2.05b.0(1)
Dec 30 12:47:00 <DocScrutinizer> what stopped working for bash3 is the help command :-/
Dec 30 12:47:28 <SpeedEvil> It's been renamed.
Dec 30 12:47:30 <SpeedEvil> halp
Dec 30 12:47:37 <SpeedEvil> It now displays a lolcat in ascii.
Dec 30 12:47:48 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Dec 30 12:48:50 <DocScrutinizer> I indeed pondered to replace it by a script with echo "<all the help foo>" 
Dec 30 12:49:16 <DocScrutinizer> but that's for sure monkey business to code
Dec 30 12:50:05 <DocScrutinizer> while I'd prefer to bash the bash3 maintainer for build option -DNOHELP
Dec 30 12:51:41 <badcloud_> what shoud the ownership of .bash_hiastory be?
Dec 30 12:51:55 <badcloud_> s/shoud/should
Dec 30 12:51:59 <DocScrutinizer> ok, there *might* be a legitimate reason you would want to build it without help: reducing RAM footprint
Dec 30 12:52:22 <DocScrutinizer> badcloud_: obviously owner owner 6xx
Dec 30 12:52:35 <badcloud_> DocScrutinizer: thanks
Dec 30 12:53:12 <DocScrutinizer> here probably user users 640
Dec 30 12:53:19 <DocScrutinizer> or 600
Dec 30 12:53:57 <DocScrutinizer> unless you're talking about root's bash
Dec 30 12:54:49 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# ls -l .bas*
Dec 30 12:54:51 <DocScrutinizer> -rw------- 1 root root 16943 2011-12-20 08:52 .bash_history
Dec 30 12:55:01 <DocScrutinizer> for root
Dec 30 12:55:29 <DocScrutinizer> ~ $ ls -l .bas*
Dec 30 12:55:31 <DocScrutinizer> -rw-------    1 user     users        3113 Nov 14 20:05 .bash_history
Dec 30 12:56:06 <badcloud_> thanks again
Dec 30 12:56:12 * DocScrutinizer realizes his user's locale is fsckdup
Dec 30 12:56:26 <badcloud_> (I meant user's)
Dec 30 12:56:29 <DocScrutinizer> messy date format
Dec 30 12:57:06 <DocScrutinizer> err, maybe that's messybox ls though
Dec 30 12:58:28 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/30/hawking_job/
Dec 30 12:59:21 <DocScrutinizer> indeed, messybox. Should get my $PATH right, for user
Dec 30 12:59:47 <DocScrutinizer> ~ $ /usr/bin/gnu/ls -l .bas*
Dec 30 12:59:49 <DocScrutinizer> -rw------- 1 user users 3135 2011-12-30 13:51 .bash_history
Dec 30 13:01:41 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# echo $PATH
Dec 30 13:01:43 <DocScrutinizer> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin/gnu:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin/gnu:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11
Dec 30 13:02:20 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Dec 30 13:04:51 <pronto> :O you's been haxed
Dec 30 13:12:42 <DocScrutinizer> me are hax0r ;-P
Dec 30 13:13:04 <DocScrutinizer> wtf is the rationale messybox sources .bashrc??
Dec 30 13:14:12 <DocScrutinizer> # ~/.profile: executed by Bourne-compatible login shells.
Dec 30 13:14:23 <DocScrutinizer> if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then
Dec 30 13:14:24 <DocScrutinizer>   . ~/.bashrc
Dec 30 13:14:26 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
Dec 30 13:14:53 <DocScrutinizer> messybox bourne-compatible? BWAHAHA
Dec 30 13:15:14 <DocScrutinizer> well, seems I need to give it some more tweaking
Dec 30 13:16:19 <DocScrutinizer> anybody got the affirmative answer on "how do I detect a script is running under true bash?"
Dec 30 13:17:08 <DocScrutinizer> if [ $BASH ] ?
Dec 30 13:18:31 <NIN101> if [ $SHELL = "/bin/bash" ] ; then echo "yay!"; fi ?
Dec 30 13:19:48 <SpeedEvil> BASH_VERSION nt null
Dec 30 13:19:51 <SpeedEvil> not
Dec 30 13:20:18 <joga> builtin && echo "it's bash" ? ;)
Dec 30 13:20:25 <XDS200010> Hi, is there a application or addon that can alert me when open access points are in range ?
Dec 30 13:20:36 <SpeedEvil> yes
Dec 30 13:20:40 <SpeedEvil> I forget what it's called
Dec 30 13:20:43 <SpeedEvil> It makes beepy noises
Dec 30 13:20:54 <XDS200010> We have a lot of municiple wifi networks in my area, i would like to take advantage of them
Dec 30 13:21:22 <XDS200010> municipal*
Dec 30 13:21:49 <XDS200010> SpeedEvil:  was that directed at me ?
Dec 30 13:21:56 <SpeedEvil> yes
Dec 30 13:22:23 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/packages/view/wifiinfo/
Dec 30 13:22:34 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/packages/view/wifieye/
Dec 30 13:22:41 <SpeedEvil> IIRC one of these can be put into scan and beep mode
Dec 30 13:23:32 <DocScrutinizer> I'll go for [ -n $BASH ] I think
Dec 30 13:25:22 <NIN101> while [ true ] ; do iwlist scan | grep "key:off" && [command to play sound ] ; sleep 120 ; done  -- hacky though. 
Dec 30 13:25:51 <XDS200010> Both of those apps have undesirable extras. I just want a simple toaster notification that tells me open access points are available.
Dec 30 13:26:02 <SpeedEvil> toaster?
Dec 30 13:26:11 <DocScrutinizer> ~ # echo $PATH
Dec 30 13:26:12 <XDS200010> Ah NIN101  thanks
Dec 30 13:26:12 <DocScrutinizer> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11
Dec 30 13:26:14 <DocScrutinizer> ~ # bash
Dec 30 13:26:15 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# echo $PATH
Dec 30 13:26:17 <DocScrutinizer> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin/gnu:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin/gnu:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11
Dec 30 13:26:19 <DocScrutinizer> all I need
Dec 30 13:26:40 * SpeedEvil is reminded of toaster notifications.
Dec 30 13:26:41 <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRq_SAuQDec
Dec 30 13:26:42 <Macer> hm
Dec 30 13:26:45 <Macer> efnet died lol
Dec 30 13:26:57 <DocScrutinizer> NIN101: while sleep 120; do ...
Dec 30 13:27:20 <NIN101> indeed, makes more sense.
Dec 30 13:28:39 <Macer> so how goes things? :)
Dec 30 13:28:46 <XDS200010> how do you send push notification to system NIN101  ?
Dec 30 13:28:57 <DocScrutinizer> NIN101: esp it really aborts on ^C
Dec 30 13:29:00 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Dec 30 13:29:08 <NIN101> do you mean this yellow notificatino bars? 
Dec 30 13:29:15 <XDS200010> yea
Dec 30 13:29:31 <DocScrutinizer> XDS200010: see wiki phone control
Dec 30 13:29:34 <NIN101> http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Notifications
Dec 30 13:29:36 <DocScrutinizer> dbus-send
Dec 30 13:29:39 <XDS200010> cool
Dec 30 13:30:01 <Macer> the last days of lehman brothers was kind of a letdown of a movie
Dec 30 13:30:07 <Macer> maybe the last days of nokia will be better
Dec 30 13:30:11 <XDS200010> I wonder if a RDS burst tx per channel could be done
Dec 30 13:30:36 <DocScrutinizer> err, what?
Dec 30 13:31:18 <XDS200010> DocScrutinizer:  in other words send Notifications to every single tx channel over fm
Dec 30 13:32:41 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, you completely lost me
Dec 30 13:33:16 <DocScrutinizer> I neither know what TX channels you talk about, nor what Notifications you could send via FM
Dec 30 13:34:13 <DocScrutinizer> whatever you want to do, the FMTX on N900 is so incredibly weak you won't succeed
Dec 30 13:34:49 <XDS200010> DocScrutinizer:  RDS tx already works, ive tried it
Dec 30 13:35:08 <DocScrutinizer> I know that
Dec 30 13:35:09 <XDS200010> its stereo too :)
Dec 30 13:35:20 <DocScrutinizer> ooh stereo RDS ;-P
Dec 30 13:35:56 <XDS200010> Doesn't matter to me, if im right on top of the signal it wont make much difference
Dec 30 13:36:17 <kerio> if you're on top of the signal you can read the screen
Dec 30 13:36:19 <DocScrutinizer> if you think of auto-adjusting your car radio to a channel specified by N900 via RDS sent to whole freq band, forget it
Dec 30 13:36:34 <XDS200010> kerio:  exactly
Dec 30 13:37:01 <XDS200010> DocScrutinizer:  what kerio said
Dec 30 13:37:12 <kerio> no, i mean, read the screen
Dec 30 13:37:20 <kerio> don't bother with transmitting notifications through fm
Dec 30 13:37:20 * DocScrutinizer wonders why the heck the coffee seems refuses to kick in - gets only gibberish
Dec 30 13:37:51 <XDS200010> kerio:  why not , seems to work fine for me
Dec 30 13:37:58 <XDS200010> ???
Dec 30 13:38:01 <DocScrutinizer> what kerio said is also gibberish to me
Dec 30 13:38:02 <Macer> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/frankfurt-stock-exchange-has-approved-nokias-request-to-delist-2011-12-16-1058150
Dec 30 13:38:05 <kerio> XDS200010: because it's fucking useless
Dec 30 13:38:06 <Macer> wow
Dec 30 13:38:22 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: XDS200010 wants to transmit notifications through the fmtx, in some way
Dec 30 13:38:25 <XDS200010> huh ?
Dec 30 13:38:40 <kerio> or i didn't get it but somehow was getting all the right answers anyway
Dec 30 13:38:57 <XDS200010> What the hell are you talking about kerio it already works
Dec 30 13:39:01 <DocScrutinizer> if you think of auto-adjusting your car radio to a channel specified by N900 via RDS sent to whole freq band, forget it
Dec 30 13:39:21 <DocScrutinizer> if that's not what you think about, then please enlighten me
Dec 30 13:39:41 <XDS200010> Doc i think you have been drinking the plutonium :P
Dec 30 13:40:12 <XDS200010> lol
Dec 30 13:40:40 <XDS200010> If you're not american you wont get that joke
Dec 30 13:40:41 * DocScrutinizer shrugs, accepts that sometimes he's living in a parallel reality that has incompatible grammar, and turns away
Dec 30 13:43:36 <XDS200010> http://nopaste.info/1bbb1e0b26.html
Dec 30 13:44:46 <kerio> why [ true ] and not just true?
Dec 30 13:45:17 <XDS200010> true , ill fix it :)
Dec 30 13:46:16 <XDS200010> http://nopaste.info/04b4625325_nl.html
Dec 30 13:46:16 <NIN101> nah, as doc said, remove the while [ true ] and replace it with while sleep 120 , and remove the "sleep  120" in the loop.
Dec 30 13:47:05 <XDS200010> whats the difference ?
Dec 30 13:47:19 <XDS200010> one less pipe ?
Dec 30 13:48:53 <NIN101> <DocScrutinizer> NIN101: esp it really aborts on ^C <-- aborts with while true too, so well, doesn't matter...
Dec 30 13:51:00 <DocScrutinizer> NIN101: ^C a sleep 120 in a while true; do... loop doesn'T usually abort the loop
Dec 30 13:51:33 <NIN101> well I just tested it, dunno.
Dec 30 13:51:37 <NIN101> it works here.
Dec 30 13:51:49 <DocScrutinizer> depends on your set -+e I guess
Dec 30 13:55:29 <DocScrutinizer> bwahahaha, a set -e closed my complete shell on ^C
Dec 30 13:55:47 <NIN101> yep.
Dec 30 13:57:22 <DocScrutinizer> I really dunno what exactly is causing the problem and when, but I found several times that I had a hard time to ^C a tight loop, when the ^C only aborted the sleep 2 and the loop entered another iteration
Dec 30 13:59:07 <DocScrutinizer> with while sleep 2; do ...; done it always aboets on ^C for me
Dec 30 13:59:23 <DocScrutinizer> obvious downside: it starts with a wait
Dec 30 14:01:44 <DocScrutinizer> haven't really wrapped my head around why it doesn't abort, on while true; do...; sleep 2; done loops, since I got the remedy
Dec 30 14:02:07 <DocScrutinizer> I'm rather sure it has to do with shell settings
Dec 30 14:02:23 <DocScrutinizer> maybe also with reading from stdin in loop, or sth
Dec 30 14:03:04 <NIN101> the whole loop is a job.
Dec 30 14:03:10 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Dec 30 14:03:13 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Dec 30 14:04:43 <kerio> is there a do...while in sh?
Dec 30 14:04:56 <DocScrutinizer> do until?
Dec 30 14:05:28 <XDS200010> wouldn't that just be a cron?
Dec 30 14:05:37 <DocScrutinizer> until: until COMMANDS; do COMMANDS; done
Dec 30 14:05:51 <DocScrutinizer> dunno, never use that one
Dec 30 14:06:24 <DocScrutinizer> I think it's just a while !
Dec 30 14:08:00 <DocScrutinizer> yep, it is a while ! COMMANDS loop
Dec 30 14:08:03 <NIN101> it may even has to do something with signals, SIGINT vs SIGTERM...
Dec 30 14:08:08 <XDS200010> while bomb technicial ; scan ; grep *run* ; if true ; catch up
Dec 30 14:08:17 <XDS200010> LMAO
Dec 30 14:09:41 <XDS200010> if rinse ; do repeat ; done
Dec 30 14:10:33 <Mongkeybiz> I am looking for a Nokia N9 developer who can make me a SMS filter app. Is that possible?
Dec 30 14:11:03 <DocScrutinizer> /join #harmattan
Dec 30 14:11:47 <Mongkeybiz> thanks
Dec 30 14:11:52 <DocScrutinizer> a rather good question though, for over there
Dec 30 14:11:56 <XDS200010> what does harmattan stand for ?
Dec 30 14:12:09 <SpeedEvil> All maemo variants are named for winds
Dec 30 14:12:11 <DocScrutinizer> ~dict harmattan
Dec 30 14:12:14 <infobot> Dictionary 'harmattan' (1 of 3): (s[i^]*r[o^]k"k[=o]z). [It. sirocco, scirocco, Ar. shorug, fr. sharq the rising of the sun, the east, fr, sharaca to rise as the sun. Cf. {Saracen}.] 1. An oppressive, relaxing wind from the Libyan deserts, chiefly experienced in Italy, Malta, and Sicily. [1913 Webster] 2. In general, any hot dry wind of cyclonic origin, blowing from arid or heated regions, including the desert wind of Southern California, the ...
Dec 30 14:12:15 <SpeedEvil> Desert winds
Dec 30 14:13:05 <DocScrutinizer> so obviously sth not very comforting
Dec 30 14:13:21 <XDS200010> why didn't they just namer it desertwind? , harmattan is hard to remember
Dec 30 14:13:27 <XDS200010> name*
Dec 30 14:13:57 <DocScrutinizer> wasn't fremantle also some wind?
Dec 30 14:14:08 <DocScrutinizer> ~dict fremantle
Dec 30 14:14:10 <infobot> could not find definition for fremantle
Dec 30 14:14:16 <DocScrutinizer> thought as much
Dec 30 14:14:50 <DocScrutinizer> sounds like s stinky village in USA
Dec 30 14:15:19 * DocScrutinizer googles
Dec 30 14:16:11 <DocScrutinizer> western Australia, meh
Dec 30 14:16:44 <DocScrutinizer> 25.000 residents
Dec 30 14:17:48 <DocScrutinizer> basically a suburb of Perth
Dec 30 14:19:49 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/ABSNavigation/prenav/LocationSearch?collection=Census&period=2006&areacode=SSC51501&producttype=QuickStats&breadcrumb=PL&action=401
Dec 30 14:25:51 <DocScrutinizer> sounds like Fremantle is a place where ~7000 old grumpy heathen unmarried managers live and scare all women out of the village  XP
Dec 30 14:27:22 <kerio> that's called the internet
Dec 30 14:35:45 <Raimu> *drum fill*
Dec 30 15:12:25 * RST38h yawns, asks how are things
Dec 30 15:21:56 <javispedro> RST38h: same as yesterday =)
Dec 30 15:23:20 <RST38h> javispedro: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3008/18872479.6/0_6f004_258941c6_L ?
Dec 30 15:25:01 <javispedro> beatiful combination of internet cats and optimistic predictions about the human future?
Dec 30 15:25:23 <RST38h> javispedro: ...and it is titled "December" to wrap it off.
Dec 30 15:25:43 <javispedro> lol
Dec 30 17:16:29 <PPPP> Hello :) guys when i start flashing my device (eMMC) it always stops on 20% .. the progress last for seconds..
Dec 30 17:16:34 <PPPP> any one can help ?! 
Dec 30 17:16:59 <PPPP> no errors appear 
Dec 30 17:20:34 <PPPP_> no help :/ ?
Dec 30 17:20:49 <NIN101> be patient
Dec 30 17:20:59 <NIN101> we are not here 24/7
Dec 30 17:21:12 <PPPP_> yeah i know but maybe someone here can help 
Dec 30 17:21:18 <NIN101> just wait.
Dec 30 17:21:22 <PPPP_> i can't use my phone anymore you know 
Dec 30 18:01:16 <pbpbp> Hello :) any one can help ?
Dec 30 18:03:33 <dm8tbr> don't ask to ask
Dec 30 18:04:35 <pbpbp> ohh you are here
Dec 30 18:04:39 <pbpbp> you can help me
Dec 30 18:04:49 <pbpbp> listen carefully ok 
Dec 30 18:05:07 <dm8tbr> no, but if you ask your question someone could...
Dec 30 18:05:26 <NIN101> rules for IRC: just ask and stick around. nothing more.  
Dec 30 18:05:45 <SpeedEvil> Also, don't be a dick.
Dec 30 18:06:22 <pbpbp> i start flashing the eMMC image using the flasher.. the progress always ends on 20% (just take few seconds) then the window close
Dec 30 18:06:32 <pbpbp> no any errors 
Dec 30 18:07:02 <pbpbp> whats the problem there ?
Dec 30 18:07:40 <SpeedEvil> open uip the command line, and then run it again
Dec 30 18:07:44 <SpeedEvil> See what the errors are
Dec 30 18:08:11 <pbpbp> told you no errors.. just like that 
Dec 30 18:08:23 <dm8tbr> are you on windows?
Dec 30 18:08:28 <pbpbp> yeah windows 7
Dec 30 18:10:32 <pbpbp> :/
Dec 30 18:12:45 <pbpbp> SpeedEvil dm8tbr
Dec 30 18:13:03 <SpeedEvil> Odd
Dec 30 18:13:38 <pbpbp> so what should i do :/ ?
Dec 30 18:13:44 <pbpbp> i can't run my phone anymore?
Dec 30 18:15:30 <SpeedEvil> If you set it up so that the window doesn't close - are there errors?
Dec 30 18:16:07 <pbpbp> i didn't try that
Dec 30 18:16:31 <DocScrutinizer> obviously the windows flasher is some POS that opens a new dosbox even when invoked from cmdline, and it closes that new dosbox on termination of the cmd
Dec 30 18:17:28 <pbpbp> how can i set it to not to close ?
Dec 30 18:18:15 <DocScrutinizer> pbpbp: try flashing rootfs/COMBINED first, then eMMC/VANILLA. If VANILLA flashing works then, you have to flash rootfs/COMBINED *again*
Dec 30 18:18:50 <DocScrutinizer> and also you should use linux, as windows flashing is cumbersome - obviously
Dec 30 18:18:51 <pbpbp> it is the same for the rootfs.. 20% then close
Dec 30 18:19:04 <pbpbp> i have ubuntu 
Dec 30 18:19:10 <DocScrutinizer> fine :-)
Dec 30 18:19:22 <pbpbp> will it make a difference ?
Dec 30 18:19:34 <DocScrutinizer> to windows? definitely
Dec 30 18:19:34 <pbpbp> windows to linux ?
Dec 30 18:19:45 <pbpbp> i hope it works ..
Dec 30 18:20:38 <DocScrutinizer> at least you'll get good non-volatile diagnostic output on linux. No closing windows or similar nonsense
Dec 30 18:21:14 <pbpbp> okk guys thank you very much i will try using linux :)
Dec 30 18:21:30 <DocScrutinizer> also see:
Dec 30 18:21:32 <DocScrutinizer> ~flash
Dec 30 18:21:33 <infobot> maemo-flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Dec 30 19:38:18 <Macer> virgin - n. http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2666/4231257678_e5cf79c73c_o.jpg
Dec 30 19:38:32 <Macer> lmao.. omg
Dec 30 19:40:21 <SpeedEvil> http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1430/slide_1430_20402_large.jpg
Dec 30 19:40:28 <M4rtinK> Mac OS ? srsly ? :)
Dec 30 19:57:47 <Macer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx_LWm6_6tA
Dec 30 19:57:56 <Macer> omg that was very well done
Dec 30 19:58:06 <Macer> a dumbed down version of the credit crisis
Dec 30 22:03:03 <trist4n> can anyone tell me where msn passwords are stored
Dec 30 22:03:23 <trist4n> i can see email details in gcconftool, but seemingly no msn
Dec 30 22:04:55 <NIN101> can it be /home/user/.rtcom-accounts? Just a guess.
Dec 30 22:07:02 <trist4n> apparently it was moved in pr 1.2
Dec 30 22:07:08 <trist4n> from there.
Dec 30 22:08:13 <Sicelo> if all else fails, mc-tool is your next best friend. (i don't use msn, so i can't check). mc-tool can do it though
Dec 30 22:13:18 <HyperSnyper> DocScrutinizer, got another theoretical question for you about cell towers etc ;P
Dec 30 22:13:29 <DocScrutinizer> shoot
Dec 30 22:13:42 <HyperSnyper> heh that was fast
Dec 30 22:13:56 <HyperSnyper> http://opensource.srlabs.de/projects/catcher/wiki
Dec 30 22:14:20 <DocScrutinizer> fast? well, usual IRQ service times are lower on a decent system
Dec 30 22:14:21 <HyperSnyper> IMSI Catcher Catcher.. for detcting that IMSI exploit
Dec 30 22:14:35 <HyperSnyper> was just wondering is much of that possible currently on n900
Dec 30 22:15:04 <NIN101> ah that was part of a 28c3 talk.
Dec 30 22:15:12 <HyperSnyper> Osmocom also looks pretty interesting
Dec 30 22:15:16 <NIN101> indeed
Dec 30 22:19:01 <DocScrutinizer> S1 L1 2 3 5 7? 9? 10? might be possible
Dec 30 22:19:39 <DocScrutinizer> alas BB% doesn't expose the info needed for the rest
Dec 30 22:19:43 <DocScrutinizer> BB5*
Dec 30 22:19:51 <DocScrutinizer> for all I know
Dec 30 22:20:02 <DocScrutinizer> if it does then I dunno about it
Dec 30 22:20:18 <HyperSnyper> thxs, i might try and get inspired to look into it abit more
Dec 30 22:20:36 <DocScrutinizer> it'd be nice if somebody would RE/disassemble the cmt firmware to find what actually can get done regarding service mode etc
Dec 30 22:21:21 <HyperSnyper> do you know much of that Osmocom ?
Dec 30 22:21:25 <DocScrutinizer> the ISI specs are not helpful on that, for obvious reasons
Dec 30 22:21:57 <HyperSnyper> only see one metion of it related to n900 through google about someone called "Mickey Lauer"
Dec 30 22:22:00 <DocScrutinizer> HyperSnyper: well, apart from talking with Harald Welte about it, not THAT much ;-D
Dec 30 22:22:03 <HyperSnyper> "Mickey Lauer is rewriting the N900 modem handling part"
Dec 30 22:22:21 <DocScrutinizer> irrelevant
Dec 30 22:22:25 <HyperSnyper> heh
Dec 30 22:22:39 <DocScrutinizer> that's nothing more than a replacement for our libisi
Dec 30 22:23:00 <HyperSnyper> ok
Dec 30 22:23:24 <DocScrutinizer> the interesting things happen inside BB5, before anything gets into APE land via ISI interface
Dec 30 22:23:52 <SpeedEvil> You can't do anything 'interesting' on n900, unless you crack the security on the modem, and run code on it
Dec 30 22:24:04 <DocScrutinizer> and you can not rewrite the BB5 firmware, as it's signed
Dec 30 22:24:20 <SpeedEvil> It's going to be at best tricky.
Dec 30 22:24:39 <DocScrutinizer> you can however disassemble and see what "hidden goodies" are already there
Dec 30 22:25:19 <DocScrutinizer> I'm rather sure they got some low level debugging mode interface in ISI
Dec 30 22:25:42 <DocScrutinizer> similar or even identical to age old Nokia system monitor
Dec 30 22:26:15 <DocScrutinizer> as to be found and documented at nobbi.com
Dec 30 22:27:32 <HyperSnyper> only reversing i've ever done is some basic cracme.exe's
Dec 30 22:27:33 <HyperSnyper> heh
Dec 30 22:27:42 <DocScrutinizer> oooh L13 - available
Dec 30 22:28:21 <HyperSnyper> i'm guessing most of the catcher catcher flags wouldn't be applicable to any network/operator based tracking ?
Dec 30 22:28:34 <DocScrutinizer> none
Dec 30 22:28:54 <HyperSnyper> thought so
Dec 30 22:32:45 <HyperSnyper> thxs for the feedback, appreciated.
Dec 30 22:33:07 <DocScrutinizer> yw, thanks for mentioning the URL
Dec 30 22:33:26 <DocScrutinizer> actually I wasn't aware of this nice lil fancy
Dec 30 22:34:28 <HyperSnyper> i'd remebered reading about on old "tmobile" i think it wa mobile signal booster that had ben exploited to use in MITM attacks, just decided to look into that again, and found that instead
Dec 30 22:36:15 <DocScrutinizer> HyperSnyper: you might want to /join #osmocom
Dec 30 22:36:35 <DocScrutinizer> not sure though if "noobs" like me or you are welcome there
Dec 30 22:36:47 <HyperSnyper> good to know ;P
Dec 30 22:37:12 <HyperSnyper> i'm fairly sure ur a diff class to my noob level
Dec 30 22:38:37 <HyperSnyper> ahh it was vodafone xploit, just found it
Dec 30 22:38:39 <HyperSnyper> "Vodafone Femtocell Hack"
Dec 30 22:38:44 <HyperSnyper> http://wiki.thc.org/vodafone
Dec 30 22:39:59 <DocScrutinizer> femtocells, HAH
Dec 30 22:40:14 <HyperSnyper> gota love the 6 character alphabetic lower case only root password
Dec 30 22:46:39 <DocScrutinizer> a pity I'm not involved into network signalling for those Thor chips
Dec 30 22:47:05 <kerio> hm, how does a femtocell work, with the limited upload bandwidth of most home connections?
Dec 30 22:47:45 <DocScrutinizer> you're not supposed to use a femtocell when your bandwith over the wire is too low for even a single call
Dec 30 22:47:57 <HyperSnyper> looks like it's not just black hats using IMSI catching MITM's > http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/30/metropolitan-police-mobile-phone-surveillance
Dec 30 22:47:59 <kerio> and who's going to STOP ME
Dec 30 22:48:01 <HyperSnyper> "Britain's largest police force is operating covert surveillance technology that can masquerade as a mobile phone network"
Dec 30 22:48:39 <DocScrutinizer> HyperSnyper: IMSI catchers are 99.99% used by law enforcement
Dec 30 22:49:10 <DocScrutinizer> since ~20 years now
Dec 30 22:49:19 <HyperSnyper> would they spoof legit cell id's ?
Dec 30 22:49:58 <kerio> how would they handle a data connection?
Dec 30 22:49:59 <DocScrutinizer> sure, of some legit cell in a remote area - what'S a legit cellid? is 563412 legit? is it not?
Dec 30 22:50:06 <kerio> an encrypted data connection?
Dec 30 22:50:07 <HyperSnyper> true
Dec 30 22:50:21 <HyperSnyper> i was going more by that app that can pull ap lat:long on google maps
Dec 30 22:50:25 <kerio> i mean, the n900 can use sip through a ssh tunnel
Dec 30 22:50:32 <HyperSnyper> that must be getting daat from some DB somewhere
Dec 30 22:50:52 <HyperSnyper> if you could set location with gps and then check against that db of rough cell tower lactions
Dec 30 22:50:54 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: IMSI catchers are for GSM voice calls
Dec 30 22:51:00 <HyperSnyper> then notify if say over 10 miles out
Dec 30 22:51:12 <kerio> hah, sucks for them, i don't talk on the phone
Dec 30 22:51:51 <DocScrutinizer> HyperSnyper: feasible
Dec 30 22:51:57 <HyperSnyper> Snuggle > http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1025712
Dec 30 22:52:11 <HyperSnyper> "Geolocation using CellID and Google APIs Applications"
Dec 30 22:52:36 <HyperSnyper> but if the norm is to just spoof local cell id that'd be pointless battery usage
Dec 30 22:52:37 <HyperSnyper> :D
Dec 30 22:53:02 <DocScrutinizer> "some db smewhere" = openbmap
Dec 30 22:53:24 <HyperSnyper> very good to know
Dec 30 22:53:26 <HyperSnyper> :)
Dec 30 22:54:10 <DocScrutinizer> hope they adoped my specs on how to buld up their database
Dec 30 22:54:36 <DocScrutinizer> onen_openbmap promised he'll do
Dec 30 22:54:36 <kerio> HyperSnyper: how about this - if you're going to talk about a felony on your phone, use an encrypted channel
Dec 30 22:54:45 <HyperSnyper> wat ?
Dec 30 22:55:48 <HyperSnyper> it's just somethign that interests me, i've no real need for it
Dec 30 22:56:05 <DocScrutinizer> btw the Siemens C5 signalled in display when encryption been off
Dec 30 22:56:08 <HyperSnyper> i wouldnt use any kind of digital communication if i need to discuss something like that
Dec 30 22:56:09 <DocScrutinizer> iirc
Dec 30 22:56:31 <DocScrutinizer> and old IMSI catchers were cheap, had no encryption
Dec 30 22:57:18 <DocScrutinizer> why encrypt when you're eavesdropping anyway ;-P
Dec 30 22:59:08 <DocScrutinizer> there's exactly one secure communication channel: encrypted steganography in pictures on public HTML sites
Dec 30 22:59:29 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: oh god
Dec 30 22:59:31 <DocScrutinizer> all those photo gallery sites
Dec 30 22:59:32 <kerio> tcp-over-4chan
Dec 30 22:59:40 <HyperSnyper> hahaha
Dec 30 22:59:55 <kerio> anyway, secure for what?
Dec 30 22:59:59 <HyperSnyper> imgur sure does get some crazy traffic on some pics
Dec 30 23:00:14 <kerio> for plausible deniability, you can use OTR messaging
Dec 30 23:00:40 <kerio> if you just want to avoid eavesdroppers, ssh on a previously-known host is enough
Dec 30 23:00:59 <DocScrutinizer> no, definitely not enough
Dec 30 23:01:06 <kerio> why not?
Dec 30 23:01:27 <HyperSnyper> id want atleast 7 hops
Dec 30 23:01:28 <HyperSnyper> ;P
Dec 30 23:01:41 <DocScrutinizer> a) ssh can be cracked, b) your server can already be rooted, c) they still register the fact of communication
Dec 30 23:02:08 <HyperSnyper> carrier pigeons in tinfoil hats!!
Dec 30 23:02:16 <DocScrutinizer> hehehe
Dec 30 23:02:22 <kerio> they register the fact that you communicated with a third party server in china
Dec 30 23:02:33 <kerio> and your phone can already be rooted
Dec 30 23:02:40 <DocScrutinizer> good luck with THAT one ;-P
Dec 30 23:02:42 <kerio> ssh being cracked... let's hope not! :(
Dec 30 23:03:39 <DocScrutinizer> there's been that notorious vulnerability in secure socket passwords for almost years
Dec 30 23:03:59 <kerio> >passwords
Dec 30 23:04:03 <HyperSnyper> always needs > alota hops + time delay + plausable deniability
Dec 30 23:04:04 <kerio> >almost 2012
Dec 30 23:04:07 <kerio> wtfamireading
Dec 30 23:04:08 <HyperSnyper> imo
Dec 30 23:04:36 <HyperSnyper> oh and encryption thats not broken
Dec 30 23:04:45 <kerio> HyperSnyper: that's when you need deniability
Dec 30 23:04:47 <DocScrutinizer> pictures on tmo
Dec 30 23:04:53 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: lol
Dec 30 23:04:55 <DocScrutinizer> absolutely deniable
Dec 30 23:05:01 <kerio> the one place where nobody would bother to check?
Dec 30 23:05:24 <DocScrutinizer> they can check for steganography until they get blue in the face
Dec 30 23:05:49 <HyperSnyper> can you do deniable steno in pictures ?
Dec 30 23:06:13 <kerio> sure
Dec 30 23:06:22 <DocScrutinizer> not stenography, steganography
Dec 30 23:06:46 * HyperSnyper googles
Dec 30 23:07:46 <HyperSnyper> ahh hideen within the data not with the data ;P
Dec 30 23:08:48 <jani> there was interesting project which utilizes steganography with routing around censorship firewalls .. 
Dec 30 23:09:13 <DocScrutinizer> sure - you can *not* detect stegano
Dec 30 23:09:43 <HyperSnyper> i've never read much about steganography, interesting area
Dec 30 23:09:48 <DocScrutinizer> the downside is the S/N ratio
Dec 30 23:10:08 <DocScrutinizer> like filler material is eating up 99.9% of your bandwidth
Dec 30 23:10:13 <jani> http://telex.cc
Dec 30 23:11:31 <SpeedEvil> You can't detect it reliably, but you can say the noise is wrong
Dec 30 23:11:35 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: btw, your plan is now fucked, because you talked about using steganography with pics on TMO on the internet
Dec 30 23:11:56 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you can't, if you add noise to the filler first
Dec 30 23:12:06 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
Dec 30 23:12:10 <DocScrutinizer> and crypt the data
Dec 30 23:12:18 <SpeedEvil> I mean, comparing with known images drom a camera
Dec 30 23:12:31 <DocScrutinizer> sure, then you can do a lot
Dec 30 23:13:37 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: how's it fsckd? you won't find the watersigns in the pictures I already uploaded, and you won't find the hidden messages in my future picture uploads
Dec 30 23:13:57 <kerio> of course i won't
Dec 30 23:14:08 <kerio> i wouldn't touch tmo with a 10-foot pole
Dec 30 23:14:20 * HyperSnyper looks for cat pictures posted by DocScrutinizer
Dec 30 23:14:41 <kerio> HyperSnyper: :3
Dec 30 23:14:43 <DocScrutinizer> http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.pennystore/joerg900.10129
Dec 30 23:14:53 <badcloud_> is there some way to tweak microb so that it opens new windows in the background?
Dec 30 23:15:45 <badcloud_> or open any program in maemo as a background window for that matter?
Dec 30 23:16:05 <DocScrutinizer> not afaik
Dec 30 23:16:50 <badcloud_> crudcrap
Dec 31 00:04:27 <pronto> http://i.imgur.com/7ShJT.jpg  :D yerbma mate and rumstuff
Dec 31 01:29:07 <merlin1991> anybody read about reaver by now?
Dec 31 01:29:15 <merlin1991> or rather had a look at the source=
Dec 31 01:29:22 <merlin1991> s/=/?/
Dec 31 01:29:22 <infobot> merlin1991 meant: or rather had a look at the source?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 31 02:59:57 2011