**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 09 02:59:57 2012
Jan 09 05:15:39 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
Jan 09 05:33:08 <DocScrutinizer> I wonder if I should charge each wiki user 1ct for each time I clean out a spam
Jan 09 05:39:25 <DocScrutinizer> I'd ove to charge the spammers, but alas I won't get a cent from either
Jan 09 05:39:30 <DocScrutinizer> love*
Jan 09 10:09:44 <Sicelo> hmm, jonwil mia
Jan 09 13:11:40 <badcloud_> keyboard only web browsing for n900?
Jan 09 13:12:19 <chem|st> badcloud_: make a complete sentence!
Jan 09 13:12:47 <badcloud_> chem|st: *is there*...
Jan 09 13:13:27 <chem|st> badcloud_: you can use modest keyboard only... or are you looking for text-only shell browsing?
Jan 09 13:13:32 <badcloud_> vimperator won't install on fennec and I haven't found a conqueror port for maemo
Jan 09 13:13:56 <badcloud_> modest kbd?
Jan 09 13:13:59 <chem|st> ah ok that way... no idea
Jan 09 13:14:22 <chem|st> is your touchscreen broke?
Jan 09 13:15:02 <badcloud_> no, but zooming in/out to hit links is irritating
Jan 09 13:15:24 <joga> hmm...I think it works really well, even with my desktop browser I sometimes try to double click on paragraphs to make it focus :)
Jan 09 13:15:25 <Sicelo> i didn't know u could use modest without using ts
Jan 09 13:15:45 <badcloud_> what's modest?
Jan 09 13:16:05 <badcloud_> you mean microb?
Jan 09 13:16:06 <Sicelo> stock email client
Jan 09 13:16:07 <chem|st> sry modest is the email client
Jan 09 13:16:11 <badcloud_> ah
Jan 09 13:16:12 <chem|st> yeah microb
Jan 09 13:16:38 <badcloud_> how can you use microb w/out ts?
Jan 09 13:16:40 <chem|st> both starting with m and both I do not make use of...
Jan 09 13:17:14 <chem|st> thought you could ctrl shift... lmch+
Jan 09 13:19:42 <badcloud_> what about links web browser? can it be installed on the n900?
Jan 09 13:20:09 <chem|st> I'd say I was sure that there is a way to "tab" but there isn't afaics
Jan 09 13:20:54 <badcloud_> DAMMIT, pentadactyl won't install either
Jan 09 13:21:25 <Wizzup> badcloud_, you could file a feature request at pentadactyl
Jan 09 13:21:40 <Wizzup> I perhaps somehow compile firefox for arm
Jan 09 13:21:44 <Wizzup> Perhaps debian chroot?
Jan 09 13:22:02 <badcloud_> good ideas
Jan 09 13:22:08 <chem|st> yeah links is available
Jan 09 13:23:20 <badcloud_> E: Package links has no installation candidate
Jan 09 13:23:24 <badcloud_> boo
Jan 09 13:24:04 <badcloud_> chem|st: or did you mean via debian chroot?
Jan 09 13:30:54 <stef_204> hi, thinking of switching from Nokia N900 to N9--but not convinced if worth it or not. Pretty happy with N900. Anyone here using N9?
Jan 09 13:35:22 <andre__> stef_204, some people.
Jan 09 13:35:53 <stef_204> ok, do you know what the feedback is?
Jan 09 13:36:59 <stef_204> There's a lot of reviews at the moment and depending who writes them--whether they are Linux buffs or Windows buffs--the review is positive or negative
Jan 09 13:37:38 <stef_204> I guess if the piece is done by a Windows PR, Meego had "no future", N9 is "stillborn", etc.
Jan 09 13:37:54 <stef_204> or, N9 is excellent from the Linux buffs
Jan 09 13:38:46 <stef_204> They were saying the same re. Maemo but IMHO, Maemo is still being used by a wide base, if I am not mistaken, and has lots of aps developed for it
Jan 09 13:40:28 <petteri> if you are happy with N900, i see no need to switch to anything. For me N9 really rocks
Jan 09 13:40:48 <petteri> and most of people I know that had N900 have upgraded to N9
Jan 09 13:41:35 <Wizzup> Is the battery a lot better?
Jan 09 13:42:57 <petteri> i charge it mostly every night, but i would say that it last two days
Jan 09 13:50:38 <stef_204> petteri: ok, that's good feedback. I can get the N9 for "free" with a contract extension but before doing that I am trying to get more feedback
Jan 09 13:51:14 <stef_204> one thing I read is that it had no ability to render "flash" when browsing
Jan 09 13:51:58 <stef_204> flash is so widely used that that point seems to be a negative--it's going to be some time before HTML5 is the norm, IMO
Jan 09 13:52:14 <petteri> no flash support and the browser does not have any settings, but at least it is fast :)
Jan 09 13:52:31 <stef_204> perhaps there is some other browser that can be installed which would would render flash??
Jan 09 13:53:00 <petteri> probably not
Jan 09 13:53:18 <stef_204> figures
Jan 09 13:53:54 <stef_204> petteri: what about texting? no problems with the touchscreen, no keyboard?
Jan 09 13:54:42 <petteri> no problems. The virtual keyboard is nice
Jan 09 13:56:22 <petteri> one thing that is good to note is that N9 does that much common with N900 in the UI side
Jan 09 13:57:03 <petteri> all apps are new, maps work, calendar and email are usable, etc...
Jan 09 13:58:12 <petteri> does not have that much common with N900 i meant to say :)
Jan 09 13:58:44 <stef_204> right, I understoodd, no worries
Jan 09 13:58:55 <stef_204> IMAP email is OK?
Jan 09 13:59:25 <petteri> yes
Jan 09 14:00:22 <stef_204> how is the app store, repository...? not that many aps developed or starting to get there?
Jan 09 14:02:12 <petteri> i think the app situation is also better than N900 at least there are more commercial ones
Jan 09 14:03:51 <edheldil> fredddd:  Hi, were you successful with Jabber and SSL? If you wrote me, I have missed that
Jan 09 14:04:04 <petteri> i am not missing anything, but at least at twitter i see complains that whatsapp is not ported to N9 
Jan 09 14:07:13 <stef_204> ok
Jan 09 14:08:27 <stef_204> thanks for the feedback. let me kow if anything else is worth noting on switching from N900 to N9.  I'll probably go ahead and get the N9, looks pretty nifty; and keep using the N900 for backup number
Jan 09 14:12:15 <fredddd> edheldil, there is still an issue with the used XMPP client and wildcard certificates, I got as far as trying the first build, and sending a new log to Robot101, he was then waiting to advise a knowledged friend about it.
Jan 09 14:12:22 <fredddd> This was Saturday.
Jan 09 14:12:36 <fredddd> Nothing new has happened since then, waiting for a new build to try.
Jan 09 14:25:08 <edheldil> fredddd:  ah, ok. Thanks for the effort
Jan 09 14:43:14 <fredddd> edheldil, I am prety sure it will get fixed, I am ready to continue testing and provide feedback, then we just have to hope it will get accepted by CSSU, as I am not too sure how well CSSU is going, I can not really remember last time my phone updated.
Jan 09 14:43:58 <Robot101> fredddd: merlin1991 is waiting for us to say it works and he'll include it
Jan 09 14:44:07 <fredddd> Robot101, did you make a new build?
Jan 09 14:44:13 <fredddd> I can test it, if so.
Jan 09 14:44:31 <fredddd> I only tested the first build that was setup, and it did not work, I ended up giving you new logs of it.
Jan 09 14:44:42 <fredddd> That was Saturday.
Jan 09 14:45:18 <Robot101> no we didn't work out why the old code didn't workso there's nothing to change/update yet
Jan 09 14:45:37 <Robot101> maybe just put in loads of DEBUG and see if we can figure out that way why it doesn't work
Jan 09 14:45:52 <Robot101> but I am in 2 days of meetings so I've not got time for that atm
Jan 09 15:00:35 <fredddd> Robot101, it seems that wild card certificates are troublesome?
Jan 09 15:00:48 <fredddd> If I could I would perhaps generate the certificates individually, but my provider does not allow for such an option.
Jan 09 15:01:24 <Robot101> ? it's your server isn't it? you can get certificates for free from startssl
Jan 09 15:01:32 <Robot101> but I'd rather fix it
Jan 09 15:02:59 <fredddd> Robot101, I would like to stick to just one certificate provider, I kind of paid around 140 euros for it, so I would naturally be keen on resorting to the one I paid for and trying to figure out the best solution with that. =p
Jan 09 15:03:06 <fredddd> Although I appreciate your suggestion.
Jan 09 15:03:28 <fredddd> Robot101, do you use Postfix also?
Jan 09 15:03:31 <Robot101> yes
Jan 09 15:03:43 <fredddd> I am cracking my mind on why my mail client refuses to connect, and times out.
Jan 09 15:03:55 <fredddd> Dovecot / IMAP is working, I am glad for that.
Jan 09 15:04:11 <Robot101> maybe your ISP filters port 25 - try enabling port 587 (submission) and test that instead?
Jan 09 15:04:12 <fredddd> I try to connect to Postfix, mail client times out, with no helpful error but "Time Out", and Postfix does not log any signs of me trying to connect.
Jan 09 15:04:25 <fredddd> They do not.
Jan 09 15:04:51 <fredddd> I am trying to STARTTLS on port 25, I tried to do normal SSL on 465 but nothing.
Jan 09 15:05:09 <fredddd> netstat -lnp shows postfix is up and listening.
Jan 09 15:05:13 <fredddd> But I can not see what port though.
Jan 09 15:05:56 <fredddd> I remember setting up Postfix before following the same tutorial and things worked out, only difference now is that I have my wild card certificate and configured Postfix towards it.
Jan 09 15:06:15 <fredddd> But if that would error, surely, my mail client should tell me, or Postfix should log failures or errors.
Jan 09 15:07:01 <fredddd> Going to see what it does on 587.
Jan 09 15:07:26 <Robot101> have you tried conecting with netcat?
Jan 09 15:07:35 <fredddd> No idea what that is. D:
Jan 09 15:07:51 <fredddd> * Connecting to SMTP server: acantha.expressionate.org ...
Jan 09 15:07:51 <fredddd> *** Error occurred while sending the message.
Jan 09 15:08:14 <fredddd> /var/log/mail.log <- shows nothing about me trying to connect.
Jan 09 15:08:25 <fredddd> It does show other postfix messages such as the server having started up, so the log works as far I am concerned.
Jan 09 15:08:25 <nid0> netcat will just manually connect to the port, for testing mailserver access you can also just use telnet
Jan 09 15:11:25 <fredddd> Looks like netcat is just going to time out as well on that port.
Jan 09 15:11:30 <fredddd> netcat smtp.expressionate.org 25
Jan 09 15:11:36 <fredddd> Leads to just a new line with the cursor blinking.
Jan 09 15:11:38 <Robot101> fredddd: it seems to respond well to me on port 25, with STARTTLS working too with openssl s_client
Jan 09 15:11:49 <Robot101> fredddd: means it's more likely a problem on your end / your network
Jan 09 15:12:04 <nid0> yep, smtp server responds fine here too
Jan 09 15:13:06 <fredddd> If I configure my mail on Maemo, and pick TLS.
Jan 09 15:13:10 <fredddd> It will use STARTTLS?
Jan 09 15:13:24 <fredddd> Or do I need to resort to 465 (SMTP) / 993 (IMAP)?
Jan 09 15:15:58 <Robot101> TLS means STARTTLS, so it should be normal ports, 25 or 587 for SMTP and 143 for IMAP
Jan 09 15:17:31 <fledermaus> fredddd: aha. hello. which version of openssl do you have, that currently fails the ssl certificate check inside gabble?
Jan 09 15:24:23 <fredddd> Maemo mail does not send out my mail upon configuring smtp.expressionate.org and port 25, using TLS, and the credentials for SMTP are the same as IMAP (same database), IMAP working, I can conclude the credentials are ok.
Jan 09 15:25:04 <fredddd> What is the equivalent of aptitude show openssl but then for apt-get?
Jan 09 15:25:31 <fledermaus> apt-cache show ... 
Jan 09 15:25:39 <Robot101> fledermaus: you can dig maemo.org's packagedb
Jan 09 15:25:39 <fledermaus> or dpkg -l ... 
Jan 09 15:25:50 <fledermaus> Robot101: good idea.
Jan 09 15:26:29 <Robot101> http://maemo.org/packages/view/libssl0.9.8/
Jan 09 15:26:32 <fredddd> 0.9.8n-1+maemo4+0m5.
Jan 09 15:26:37 <fredddd> But no idea if it is installed.
Jan 09 15:26:57 <Robot101> dpkg -l 
Jan 09 15:27:31 <fredddd> Uh, ii, whatever that means.
Jan 09 15:27:40 <fredddd> I usually use aptitude for this, little experience with apt thingies.
Jan 09 15:28:30 <fledermaus> ii is you asked for it to be installed, and it is installed.
Jan 09 15:28:46 <fredddd> I see.
Jan 09 15:29:43 <Robot101> fredddd: the first two lines from dpkg -l are a key, the capital letter is the one that appears in the appropriate column (requested, actual)
Jan 09 15:29:45 <fledermaus> well, assuming openssl don't number their releases backwards, that's slightly newer than the version that works for me 
Jan 09 15:30:09 <fledermaus> so it's not an old-library problem.
Jan 09 15:31:27 <fredddd> Robot101, Maemo mail does not send out mail either, and /var/log/mail.log shows nothing about it trying to connect, I am so confused by this.
Jan 09 16:16:48 <edheldil> fredddd: since you are unable to connect with netcat/telnet, I think it's your provider's doing
Jan 09 16:19:40 <fredddd> I will ask at the channel of my provider.
Jan 09 16:20:12 <fredddd> My home connection ISP?
Jan 09 16:20:14 <fredddd> Or my VPS provider?
Jan 09 16:20:22 <fredddd> I believe my VPS provider is clean on this, my home connection ISP however.
Jan 09 16:29:18 <edheldil> fredddd:  home connection. They like to do that to "prevent" end user spam.
Jan 09 16:29:43 <edheldil> Have you managed to connect to the submission port?
Jan 09 16:29:51 <fredddd> 587?
Jan 09 16:30:33 <edheldil> yes. I see that it closes connection, though
Jan 09 16:45:57 <Shapeshifter> mhh. tethering doesn't work anymore for some reason. the bluetooth connection is made and the client laptop gets an IP from my n900 but it can't connect to the internet...
Jan 09 17:15:03 <timeless> anyone awake?
Jan 09 17:15:13 <plate> yep
Jan 09 17:15:45 <timeless> i'm trying to figure out how to deal with: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/europe/finland.asp
Jan 09 17:16:02 <timeless> it makes mention of "fees"
Jan 09 17:16:21 <RST38h> You want a Canadian police certificate?
Jan 09 17:16:36 <timeless> but i can't find a corresponding document within http://www.poliisi.fi/
Jan 09 17:16:46 <timeless> i want a Finnish issued certificate
Jan 09 17:16:50 <timeless> for use in Canada
Jan 09 17:17:00 <RST38h> Oh shit
Jan 09 17:17:00 <timeless> (i got an FBI issued letter for use in Canada)
Jan 09 17:17:07 <RST38h> Ok
Jan 09 17:17:20 <timeless> but the finnish web site is well...
Jan 09 17:17:26 <timeless> yeah, shit isn't a bad way to describe it
Jan 09 17:17:31 <timeless> (crap would be a better way)
Jan 09 17:17:46 <RST38h> Basically it is a piece of paper from Finnish Internal Affairs ministry (or whatever it is called) saying you do not have criminal history that they know of
Jan 09 17:17:56 <timeless> yes
Jan 09 17:18:06 <RST38h> As you appear to be an American, you probably do not need it
Jan 09 17:18:17 <timeless> ?
Jan 09 17:18:27 <RST38h> Just get on from Maryland branch of FBI or whoever gives these in the US
Jan 09 17:18:41 <timeless> i got the fbi one
Jan 09 17:18:52 <RST38h> So, why the finnish one?
Jan 09 17:18:53 <timeless> but my lawyers want me to get one from finland
Jan 09 17:18:57 <timeless> because i spent 5 years there
Jan 09 17:19:05 <RST38h> yewwww
Jan 09 17:19:06 <timeless> obviously i could have been a  criminal for those 5 years
Jan 09 17:19:11 <edheldil> hehe
Jan 09 17:19:18 <timeless> edheldil: the logic is pretty sound
Jan 09 17:19:28 <RST38h> Yeah, smuggling vodka etc
Jan 09 17:19:45 <timeless> chewing tobacco?
Jan 09 17:19:54 * timeless can't remember what that's called
Jan 09 17:20:02 <edheldil> selling counterfeit goods, like Nokia phones. That's what ACTA protects us from! ;-)
Jan 09 17:20:09 <RST38h> Anyway, based on personal experience, the best would be to *call* the Finns at the phone number quoted by the Canadians and *ask*
Jan 09 17:20:22 <RST38h> They will tell you everything about the fees, etc. 
Jan 09 17:20:30 <timeless> RST38h: based on personal experience, i'd have to call by 4pm finnish local time
Jan 09 17:20:38 <timeless> which would be um
Jan 09 17:20:40 <RST38h> Of course
Jan 09 17:20:45 <timeless> 9am i guess
Jan 09 17:20:55 <RST38h> does not sound so bad
Jan 09 17:21:00 <timeless> yeah, it could be worse :)
Jan 09 17:21:07 * timeless sighs
Jan 09 17:21:10 <SpeedEvil> On the subject of legitimate non-smuggled goods that are a really bad idea:
Jan 09 17:21:21 <timeless> SpeedEvil: Steve Jobs action figures!
Jan 09 17:21:27 <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/tattoo-kit-2-machines-gun-54-color-inks-power-supply-needles-set-equipment-97019
Jan 09 17:22:26 <timeless> RST38h: oh, i misread it
Jan 09 17:22:33 <timeless> it isn't pay in advance
Jan 09 17:22:37 <timeless> i'd be invoiced
Jan 09 17:22:44 <RST38h> You *really* wanna call
Jan 09 17:22:59 <RST38h> Do not believe anything Canadian gov site says about Finnish gov
Jan 09 17:23:02 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/09/nokia_another_os/ <-- moar
Jan 09 17:23:08 <edheldil> SpeedEvil:  that cup holder is OK, I guess ;-)
Jan 09 17:23:30 <SpeedEvil> ruskie: I've said before it's likely for patents
Jan 09 17:24:07 <ruskie> hehe
Jan 09 17:24:13 <timeless> RST38h: i can't believe that the poliisi site is powered by notes
Jan 09 17:24:17 <timeless> that's just scary
Jan 09 17:24:44 <timeless> oh right, i was supposed to look up my finnish identity number
Jan 09 17:25:04 <timeless> (i've thankfully forgotten it, i wonder if someone else knows it)
Jan 09 17:25:20 <SpeedEvil> 42?
Jan 09 17:25:35 <edheldil> 666
Jan 09 17:27:35 <timeless> SpeedEvil: it's really 10 characters
Jan 09 17:27:58 <timeless> 6 are birthdate, another character is spent for the century
Jan 09 17:28:19 <timeless> and then 3 digits for the person
Jan 09 17:28:34 <timeless> finland doesn't support having more than 1000 people born on a given day
Jan 09 17:29:34 <timeless> amusingly
Jan 09 17:29:42 <edheldil> timeless:  hmm, we have st. similar, but it 6 digits for date, 3 for personal number and 1 digit for checksum
Jan 09 17:30:04 <timeless> one could probably break the finnish system by having 1000 foreigners apply for work permits
Jan 09 17:30:12 <timeless> (as long as they had the same birthdate)
Jan 09 17:30:27 <timeless> (actually the number would be smaller, since native borns count against the limit)
Jan 09 17:30:43 <SpeedEvil> timeless: Also by impregnating 70000 or so finnish girls.
Jan 09 17:30:44 <edheldil> and it also contains sex encoded in month number
Jan 09 17:30:44 * timeless wonders what the system would do
Jan 09 17:31:12 <SpeedEvil> Though doing them all in one day may be tiring.
Jan 09 17:31:14 <timeless> SpeedEvil: that would take too long :)
Jan 09 17:31:23 <timeless> and be moderately expensive
Jan 09 17:31:35 <timeless> the general cost of breaking the system by using live people would be cheaper :)
Jan 09 17:31:44 * timeless hunts lunch
Jan 09 17:32:08 * SpeedEvil is baking chicken.
Jan 09 17:32:32 * edheldil hopes lunch will not hunt timeless instead
Jan 09 17:40:22 <fredddd> Robot101, besides SMTP 25, it would operate at 587? Postfix?
Jan 09 17:40:38 <fredddd> My ISP blocks all incoming below 1024 and outgoing on 25. =/
Jan 09 17:42:38 <Robot101> fredddd: in postfix/master.cf there should be a line for "submission" which is basically SMTP on a different port
Jan 09 17:42:52 <Robot101> fredddd: if that's there and uncommented, postfix will already be working on port 587
Jan 09 17:43:40 <fredddd> Uncommented it, restarting, testing.
Jan 09 17:43:44 <fredddd> Hoping for the best. >.<
Jan 09 17:50:07 <fredddd> SMTP authentication failure. x.x
Jan 09 17:53:41 <fredddd> Jan  9 18:52:13 acantha postfix/smtpd[1765]: setting up TLS connection from d54$
Jan 09 17:53:41 <fredddd> Jan  9 18:52:14 acantha postfix/smtpd[1765]: Anonymous TLS connection establish$
Jan 09 17:53:41 <fredddd> (then a disconnect)
Jan 09 17:53:48 <fredddd> Do you think SSL error might be causing this? =/
Jan 09 17:55:13 <fledermaus> can you crank up the logging on postfix?
Jan 09 18:28:08 <timeless> oh, sorry, someone was right, there's a check digit
Jan 09 18:52:22 <ruskie> http://www.reghardware.com/2012/01/09/phone_maker_punts_aa_powered_blower/
Jan 09 18:54:33 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/09/apple_power_adapter_password_recovery/ <-- gee because ya know I want my power adapter to store my passwords...
Jan 09 19:45:47 <timeless> ruskie: err
Jan 09 19:45:55 <timeless> the idea is you have 2 power adapters
Jan 09 19:46:00 <timeless> the one you leave at home/work
Jan 09 19:46:09 <timeless> and the one you take with you when you travel
Jan 09 19:46:16 <timeless> the one at home/work is your emergency key
Jan 09 19:46:19 <timeless> and is in a locked space
Jan 09 19:46:38 <timeless> the one you take with you while traveling is just a normal unhelpful power adapter
Jan 09 19:46:49 <timeless> it's really not a bad idea
Jan 09 19:46:56 <timeless> when i got an MBP @Nokia, i got 2 adapters
Jan 09 19:46:57 <ruskie> I already see this going bad in so many ways
Jan 09 19:47:25 <timeless> the easiest way to go bad is if you somehow manage to confuse the normal one with the special one
Jan 09 19:47:26 <ruskie> users will take a random one
Jan 09 19:47:28 <ruskie> and not even care
Jan 09 19:47:38 <timeless> but that's solvable
Jan 09 19:47:56 <timeless> the adapter could have an (led backed) icon indicating it has passwords
Jan 09 19:47:58 <ruskie> like the don't write down your passwords but change theme every 90 days solution?
Jan 09 19:48:05 <timeless> no
Jan 09 19:48:09 <timeless> that's terrible
Jan 09 19:48:11 <rm_work> i'd lose it T_T
Jan 09 19:48:20 <timeless> i can't remember something i don't use for >10 days
Jan 09 19:48:30 <timeless> whenever i need to check my "ePost.ca" account
Jan 09 19:48:33 <timeless> i reset the password
Jan 09 19:48:39 <timeless> is that secure?
Jan 09 19:48:44 <timeless> heck no
Jan 09 19:48:48 <timeless> do i have a choice?
Jan 09 19:48:49 <timeless> no
Jan 09 19:49:05 <timeless> why not? because the a** behind the site block password storing
Jan 09 19:49:06 <ruskie> epost.ca... is that like a snail mail -> digital service?
Jan 09 19:49:15 <timeless> kinda
Jan 09 19:49:23 <timeless> there's no snail involved
Jan 09 19:49:27 <ruskie> hehe
Jan 09 19:49:29 <timeless> just the snail vendor and an evault
Jan 09 19:49:42 <timeless> it saves on dead trees
Jan 09 19:50:01 <timeless> it's not a bad theory, just a horrid implementation
Jan 09 19:50:06 <timeless> doesn't support mobile devices
Jan 09 19:50:14 <timeless> doesn't support arbitrary web browsers
Jan 09 19:50:19 <timeless> doesn't allow password storing
Jan 09 19:50:30 <timeless> doesn't allow easy storing of remote content
Jan 09 19:50:34 <ruskie> well considering that trees for paper are purpose grown I don't really see much of a problem ;)
Jan 09 19:50:37 <timeless> doesn't allow easy printing of remote content
Jan 09 19:50:38 <ruskie> but ok
Jan 09 19:50:43 <ruskie> went off on a tangent
Jan 09 19:51:13 <timeless> i'm more or less forced by payroll to use these idiots
Jan 09 19:52:55 <timeless> to be fair
Jan 09 19:52:59 <timeless> there are worse systems
Jan 09 19:53:03 <ruskie> hehe
Jan 09 19:53:06 <timeless> my finnish bank for instance
Jan 09 19:53:16 <ruskie> we just switched to google apps for business at work
Jan 09 19:53:21 <timeless> to communicate with them securely, i need to log into their web site
Jan 09 19:53:28 <ruskie> I'm happy we're getting rid of the pop3 crud we had so far
Jan 09 19:53:28 <timeless> which requires a number from a plastic card
Jan 09 19:53:48 <timeless> if i take out that card in public, anyone w/ a camera can record all the numbers on the side of the card i'm using
Jan 09 19:53:51 <ruskie> but then I cried when my manager asks me... can I use POP3?
Jan 09 19:53:57 <ruskie> hehe
Jan 09 19:54:07 <timeless> this is obviously "secure"
Jan 09 19:54:14 <ruskie> fun
Jan 09 19:54:15 <timeless> because it's something that only I have
Jan 09 19:54:23 <timeless> me, and anyone who ever sees me use it...
Jan 09 19:54:32 <timeless> and any mounted camera whereever i am...
Jan 09 19:54:49 <timeless> and after i run out of numbers, i have to have a replacement mailed to me at a Finnish address
Jan 09 19:54:58 <timeless> they don't ship out of the country, because that wouldn't be "secure"
Jan 09 19:55:05 <timeless> and no, you can't stock up on cards
Jan 09 19:55:08 <timeless> that wouldn't be "secure"
Jan 09 19:55:35 <ruskie> that's why the only stuff I ever do with mobile banking is transfering money between known accounts... anything that isn't known requires a OTP made up of 2 chars from an 8 char password they sent me
Jan 09 19:55:40 <timeless> oh, i don't think they send you an email indicating that you have "secure email"
Jan 09 19:55:44 <timeless> so i think you have to poll them
Jan 09 19:56:05 <timeless> see above for how expensive that is...
Jan 09 19:56:21 <timeless> at least w/ epost, i can cost them money each time i need to use their stupid service
Jan 09 19:56:32 <ruskie> how come?
Jan 09 19:56:33 <timeless> (call +1800 == free for me, costs for them)
Jan 09 19:56:40 <timeless> (... to reset my password)
Jan 09 19:56:44 <ruskie> ahh
Jan 09 19:56:45 <ruskie> hehe
Jan 09 21:39:04 <philheaton> Quiet in here...
Jan 09 21:40:23 <merlin1991> you can't exepect an irc channel to be full of life 24/7
Jan 09 21:40:52 <philheaton> I don't. Was just commenting.
Jan 09 21:41:27 <freemangordon> merlin1991, any development with MohammadAG's case?
Jan 09 21:43:57 <merlin1991> so far not
Jan 10 01:21:02 <Markion> Hello guys
Jan 10 01:31:33 <Markion> Hello
Jan 10 01:49:40 <Markion> Anyone willing to chat??
Jan 10 01:53:11 <merlin1991> I guess most are sleeping
Jan 10 01:53:35 <Markion> True
Jan 10 01:53:53 <Markion> But i see people joining
Jan 10 01:54:28 <Markion> And i would like to test to chat on irc from the mobile for once
Jan 10 01:56:41 <merlin1991> which client are you using?
Jan 10 01:57:05 <merlin1991> and most of the joins are people who timed out earlier, so not eaxactly actively joining :D
Jan 10 01:57:23 <Markion> I see
Jan 10 01:57:52 <Markion> The client is wireless irc on symbian, my n900 is here chargin though
Jan 10 01:58:09 <Markion> Is there a good irc client on maemo?
Jan 10 02:00:16 <Markion> Do u know any channel where people are active even during the night?
Jan 10 02:06:22 <merlin1991> #raspberrypi hst people talking pretty much 24/7
Jan 10 02:06:34 <merlin1991> on maemo I use quassel
Jan 10 02:06:51 <Markion> Never heard about
Jan 10 02:07:04 <Markion> Do i find it in the repos?
Jan 10 02:07:17 <merlin1991> it's on one of the silly nokia ovi pages
Jan 10 02:07:26 <Markion> Ah ok
Jan 10 02:07:30 <Markion> Ovi store
Jan 10 02:07:42 <Markion> Is it working properly?
Jan 10 02:07:48 <merlin1991> it's a distributed client (you run a core on some server and connect from you desktop / n900 / ...)
Jan 10 02:07:50 <merlin1991> yeah it is
Jan 10 02:08:09 <Markion> Sounds complex
Jan 10 02:08:11 <merlin1991> quassel for the n900 is actually called quassel2go
Jan 10 02:08:34 <Markion> You need a pc running so
Jan 10 02:09:42 <Markion> Hey christian do you have a mobile with hw keyboard to suggest other than n900???
Jan 10 02:13:54 <merlin1991> n950 ;)
Jan 10 02:14:05 <merlin1991> ooops too late :D
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 10 02:59:58 2012