**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 17 02:59:58 2012
Jan 17 06:27:48 <ruskie> http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Samsung-tips-Tizen-and-Bada-merger-plans/
Jan 17 06:28:12 <plate> heh
Jan 17 06:28:17 <plate> i love transitions.ini in CSSU
Jan 17 06:28:25 <plate> amazing how fast thinsg are w/o SWOOSHY crap everywehre like on iOS
Jan 17 06:28:47 <plate> itotally abhor that transition stuff, on GMA500 drivers on linux with 1fps 2D it just is a disaster
Jan 17 06:28:51 <plate> and its all over chromium/firefox anymore
Jan 17 06:29:48 <plate> "you pressed F11? unlucky you. wait 10 seconds while we redraw the URL bar 32 times "
Jan 17 06:31:01 <wmarone> if it takes 10 seconds to do that, there's something technically flawed, and it's not the presence of the animation
Jan 17 06:31:55 <plate> yes. its called GMA500 :)
Jan 17 06:32:07 <plate> its the compounding of effects of bad videodrivers and eye-candy
Jan 17 06:32:33 <plate> even w/ good drivers, it adds 0.5-1s of pointless wait, eg on iOS
Jan 17 06:32:47 <wmarone> ah yeah, a SGX530 driven to netbook display sizes tends to not work out well
Jan 17 06:32:56 <wmarone> but then the problem is, again, technical flaws
Jan 17 06:32:57 <wmarone> heh
Jan 17 06:37:57 <plate> yes, flaws in intel's driver release process, underspecced chip. unfinished drivers. yay fun
Jan 17 06:38:42 * plate checks phoronix.com quarterly for updates on the situation
Jan 17 07:45:26 <plate> "HTML5 will be a pivotal technology in the growth of a multi-screen, 4G LTE cloud that is emerging "
Jan 17 07:45:40 <plate> it annoys me that these people get a salary, and Nokia proably layed off linux/gtk/open-source programmers
Jan 17 07:46:16 <SpeedEvil> :/
Jan 17 07:52:56 <plate> ah theres much worse, Gartner analysts
Jan 17 07:53:11 <plate> im sure theyre writting up tons of reports on Tizen's market potential, and the burgeoning HTML5 app-market as we speaak
Jan 17 07:53:20 <plate> to be sold for $1100 to marketing departments at microsoft
Jan 17 07:53:22 * plate pukes
Jan 17 08:05:25 <Macer> heh
Jan 17 08:06:01 <Macer> what makes it so bad is they are using smarketing words
Jan 17 08:06:01 <Macer> "cloud" "httml5"
Jan 17 08:06:10 <Macer> just to followt the trend
Jan 17 08:06:16 <Macer> until that gets old
Jan 17 08:06:36 <Macer> and nobody cares.. they pay people 6 figures to say stupid things
Jan 17 08:06:43 <SpeedEvil> Anyone want to lend me a billion, so I can have a go at a nice open phone?
Jan 17 08:10:26 <peb> SpeedEvil, hasn't that been tried with OpenMokko?
Jan 17 08:11:04 <SpeedEvil> No.
Jan 17 08:11:14 <SpeedEvil> Neglecting the amount of cash.
Jan 17 08:11:25 <SpeedEvil> Openmoko had managment screwups.
Jan 17 08:12:30 <SpeedEvil> In march 2007, I had a neo1973, with software that would (with some bugs) wake successfully from suspend on inbound SMS and calls. Have a dialer, SMS, calculator app, and a terminal. Had an awesome screen (for the time).
Jan 17 08:13:14 <SpeedEvil> The hardware had some minor issues - but with minor fixes, it could have been sold at around xmas 2007, with a slightly more polished software stack.
Jan 17 08:14:58 <SpeedEvil> It would have sold a significant number to geeks.
Jan 17 08:15:24 <SpeedEvil> However, they decided to both refresh the hardware in a major way - and to switch software stacks.
Jan 17 08:15:44 <SpeedEvil> They changed the UI once, once to an internally developed one, and then to Qt.
Jan 17 08:16:02 <SpeedEvil> During this period, the neo1973 had sold out, and the next revision was not available.
Jan 17 08:18:53 <SpeedEvil> Android wasn't around for another 6-10 months. 
Jan 17 08:19:13 <plate> im really interested in Tizen's driver situation
Jan 17 08:19:26 <plate> if its gona be some android-esque kernel, with 0% chance of vanilla ever working, im 0% interested
Jan 17 08:19:38 <peb> SpeedEvil, nice writeup. But the neo1973 also was closed source. What's speaking against the N900? the fact that it's closed (hw)?
Jan 17 08:19:40 <plate> it seems someone will slap a touchscreen on a RAspberry Pi beforea mobile mfr gets their head out of their arse
Jan 17 08:19:52 <SpeedEvil> err - what?
Jan 17 08:20:05 <SpeedEvil> the neo1973 was more open than the n900
Jan 17 08:20:06 <SpeedEvil> by a lot
Jan 17 08:20:07 <plate> neo schematics were available under GFDL or something no?
Jan 17 08:20:25 <SpeedEvil> No closed GPU, the only closed part was the modem.
Jan 17 08:20:47 <peb> Speedevil .. sorry, had a different phone in mind. Juggling to many Lables in my head (Ex-BQmobile)
Jan 17 08:21:12 <SpeedEvil> As to what's against the n900 from an opensource perspective - it was a dead end.
Jan 17 08:22:49 <SpeedEvil> Anyone else find that this shit is going too fast? :)
Jan 17 08:23:02 <SpeedEvil> The iphone only launched just before xmas 2007
Jan 17 08:30:09 <DocScrutinizer> plate: I think we put a CC on them
Jan 17 08:31:12 <DocScrutinizer> took  a while though to publish them, even after I joined OM
Jan 17 08:32:37 <plate> SpeedEvil: it almost seems inevitable some cheap Android phone from China will run Debian vanilla out of sheer luck
Jan 17 08:33:15 <plate> id certainly prefer that to a TizenSamsung thing with 90% closed drivers, some weirdo fork of E17 (cute but hmm. i'll take my GTK thanks)
Jan 17 08:33:37 <SpeedEvil> plate: Well - yes.
Jan 17 08:34:11 <SpeedEvil> plate: Problem with that is that typically much of the stuff won't work without closed-source drivers.
Jan 17 08:34:18 <SpeedEvil> for example, the modem.
Jan 17 08:34:44 <SpeedEvil> Plus, you can't get source for cheap phones from china
Jan 17 08:37:01 <DocScrutinizer> moo SpeedEvil 
Jan 17 08:37:26 * SpeedEvil mehs.
Jan 17 08:37:43 * SpeedEvil needs to get his insulated room up and working and heatable.
Jan 17 08:39:09 <DocScrutinizer> ouch yeah, nasty weather
Jan 17 08:39:27 <DocScrutinizer> might get worse til weekend
Jan 17 08:39:49 <SpeedEvil> ~4C in here. Electric blanket ++
Jan 17 08:43:15 <jonwil> You guys are welcome to have the Summer heatwave currently going on around here
Jan 17 08:43:34 <jonwil> 36C tomorrow
Jan 17 08:54:53 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: Someone needs to implement CTCP HEATPUMP
Jan 17 11:46:44 * RST38h yawns, wonders why it is so quiet here
Jan 17 11:48:34 <MohammadAG> RST38h: Peekaboo
Jan 17 11:49:35 <RST38h> Moo, Mohammad. How are things? Has the cssu thing been settled?
Jan 17 11:51:53 <khertan> morning
Jan 17 11:52:00 <RST38h> hey khertan
Jan 17 11:52:35 <khertan> hey RST38h
Jan 17 11:54:09 <MohammadAG> RST38h: Not sure what that is but I'm back for good
Jan 17 11:57:25 <khertan> does qt quick component are available on fremantle now ?
Jan 17 12:00:02 <ruskie> hmm I wonder what I broke on my N900 that it doesn't give me an option of jingle audio/video calls
Jan 17 12:05:34 <RST38h> Mohammad: I think there was a problem with maemo.org people not being rensponsive about the infrastructure
Jan 17 12:05:46 <RST38h> Mohammad: With discussions to move cssu repos off maemo.orgb
Jan 17 12:09:53 <khertan> moving cssu off mameo.org ?
Jan 17 13:32:01 <granden> Helo
Jan 17 13:32:17 <granden> Got a bit of problem, can not boot my N900.
Jan 17 13:32:27 <granden> It stuck in some kind of reboot loop. Is it possible to do anything about it?
Jan 17 13:32:47 <granden> Was going to try to flash the emmc and latest firmwire.
Jan 17 13:32:53 <granden> But seams like I can't because Im on osx.
Jan 17 13:33:06 <granden> The flasher-3.5.pkg installs nicely but dont get any binary.
Jan 17 13:34:19 <x29a> granden: i think you have to download the images directly from nokia
Jan 17 13:34:48 <x29a> http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jan 17 13:41:06 <granden> sudo /usr/bin/flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> -f -R
Jan 17 13:41:10 <granden> that command does not work
Jan 17 13:41:18 <granden> as the /usr/bin/flasher-3.5 does not exist.
Jan 17 13:41:27 <granden> even after installing and following the intscructions 
Jan 17 13:56:24 <x29a> granden: does the flasher-3.5 binary exist somewhere?
Jan 17 13:56:56 <granden> I dont know
Jan 17 13:57:02 <granden> cant find it anywhere dunno wher eto look.
Jan 17 14:03:20 <Sicelo> did u install this one granden? http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.dmg
Jan 17 14:05:39 <granden> Sicelo: Yes
Jan 17 14:20:01 <Sicelo> i wonder if `which` works under Mac.. try `which flasher-3.5`
Jan 17 14:20:46 <granden> No error but no results either
Jan 17 14:21:16 <granden> Heading over to a friends place, borrowing his Windows PC. Perhaps it will work.
Jan 17 14:22:06 <Sicelo> ok. your best bet will always be linux ;)
Jan 17 14:24:29 <guly> which also works on osx :)
Jan 17 14:25:09 <khertan> locate flasher
Jan 17 14:25:33 <khertan> (just in case it s not in the path)
Jan 17 15:01:47 <guly> khertan: updatedb isn't enabled by default, osx(tm) users use spotlight(tm) and feel gratified
Jan 17 15:03:26 <MohammadAG> Upgrading to Ubuntu 11.10, I'll regret this, as always
Jan 17 15:09:44 <khertan> guly: wasn't the case when i was using macosx beta 10.4 :)
Jan 17 15:11:18 <khertan> [  246.605375] Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
Jan 17 15:11:20 <khertan> grrrr ...
Jan 17 15:11:23 <khertan> i like obs
Jan 17 15:11:28 <khertan> pfff prefer the maemo builder
Jan 17 15:18:52 <frals> khertan: you and me both :)
Jan 17 15:19:25 <MohammadAG> frals, khertan make that a threesome
Jan 17 15:20:05 <khertan> https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=KhtPasswdGen&project=home%3Akhertan&repository=Harmattan
Jan 17 15:20:18 <khertan> anyone understand the problem ?
Jan 17 15:20:37 <khertan> MohammadAG: about ubuntu i ve stopped using this os to use the original debian
Jan 17 15:20:47 <khertan> with gnome 3.2 shell :)
Jan 17 15:20:49 <khertan> :)
Jan 17 15:21:24 <frals> make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/packages/BUILD'
Jan 17 15:21:25 <frals> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `install'.  Stop.
Jan 17 15:21:35 <frals> # /usr/bin/make # Uncomment this line for use without Qt Creator
Jan 17 15:21:40 <frals> guess you might want to uncomment that line
Jan 17 15:22:12 <khertan> yes ... i see that
Jan 17 15:22:26 <khertan> don't know why qtcreator have build the package source with the old rule
Jan 17 15:22:27 <khertan> thx
Jan 17 15:35:29 <khertan> whao ... 7 Days for ovi store validation
Jan 17 15:35:52 <khertan> the website for submitting content have an old style and look strange
Jan 17 15:36:24 <khertan> remember me the day at palmgears in 90's year
Jan 17 15:45:48 <khertan> frals: maybe you can help me with qtcreator
Jan 17 15:45:58 <khertan> i really didn't understand why it s sucks so much
Jan 17 15:46:08 <khertan> debian/rules:21: *** commands commence before first target.  Stop. 
Jan 17 15:46:16 <khertan> there is nothing on line 21
Jan 17 15:46:25 <khertan> not even a space
Jan 17 15:50:35 <mgedmin> what's on line 20?
Jan 17 15:51:07 <khertan> nothing more
Jan 17 15:51:09 <khertan> :)
Jan 17 15:51:20 <khertan> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/apps.formeego.org << apps formeego down ?
Jan 17 15:52:04 <khertan> mgedmin: http://pastebin.com/cn0Ex7rB
Jan 17 15:52:38 <khertan> and the error log ... which have some part in french ... : http://pastebin.com/45SSxAz5
Jan 17 15:53:29 <mgedmin> I see a single space on line 21
Jan 17 15:53:52 <mgedmin> pastebin added it, I suppose
Jan 17 15:54:09 <mgedmin> since I see (can select in my browser) a single space on every other blank line as well
Jan 17 15:54:19 <mgedmin> hmm... do a hex dump, look for CR characters?
Jan 17 15:54:27 <mgedmin> 0x0d
Jan 17 15:54:54 <khertan> crlf ....
Jan 17 15:54:55 <khertan> grrrr
Jan 17 15:54:58 <khertan> stupid windows
Jan 17 15:55:37 <khertan> didn't help much :)
Jan 17 15:58:20 <merlin1991> khertan: if you find the time can you check if https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12182 is still valid on current cssu?
Jan 17 15:58:22 <povbot> 04Bug 12182: Qt.QTextEdit Shift click selection
Jan 17 15:58:55 <khertan> does it s include my patch ?
Jan 17 15:59:21 <merlin1991> no, but a lot of other changes on qt since the bugreport, and it at least seems to work without the patch
Jan 17 16:13:48 <khertan> merlin1991: hum ... need to found an working n900 ;)
Jan 17 16:14:24 * khertan have made some progress : debian/rules:29: *** missing separator.  Stop.
Jan 17 16:14:25 <khertan> :)
Jan 17 16:19:14 <khertan> Ahahah ahahah ahah qtcreator use different debian file 
Jan 17 16:19:19 <khertan> pfff
Jan 17 16:19:32 <khertan> this whole ide is nice but need more polish
Jan 17 16:39:41 <khertan> pffff tomorrow is an other day
Jan 17 16:40:02 <khertan> let see if i ll get more chance compiling something of qtcreator on obs
Jan 17 17:28:48 <ruskie> http://www.reghardware.com/2012/01/17/hp_hawks_monster_multi_touch_display/ <-- yes please
Jan 17 19:13:20 <dafox> hi. Does anyone know where the preenv package went? (apt-get install preenv --> E: Couldn't find package preenv)
Jan 17 19:25:50 <dafox> mm seems that FAM and apt-get don't share the same repositories/settings? Still doesn't explain why it doesn't show up in FAM ...
Jan 17 20:36:05 <Guest25459> does anyone have any idea why preenv wouldn't show up in faster-application-manager?
Jan 17 20:37:34 <merlin1991> #maemo knows that fapman comes from deeper layers of hell, so probably no help on that one here
Jan 17 20:42:01 <Guest25459> merlin1991: aha... ok, sorry I didn't know. What is the recommended package manger here?
Jan 17 20:42:34 <merlin1991> well hildon-application-manager
Jan 17 20:42:38 <Guest25459> ugh
Jan 17 20:42:39 <merlin1991> thought it's slow it's safe
Jan 17 20:43:00 <merlin1991> and if you know what you do you can always use apt-get in the commandline
Jan 17 20:43:08 <Guest25459> but I thought both were just wrappers around apt-get?
Jan 17 20:43:26 <merlin1991> well fapman is an inferior wrapper around apt-get
Jan 17 20:43:37 <merlin1991> first of it doesn't honor certain package flags
Jan 17 20:43:38 <Guest25459> (also, could you give me a bit more information why fapman is so horrid?)
Jan 17 20:43:53 <merlin1991> (especially the ones for system upgrades)
Jan 17 20:43:59 <merlin1991> and secondly it call autoremove
Jan 17 20:44:18 <merlin1991> which sadly is broken on maemo and tends to remove packages at random that are actually still needed
Jan 17 20:44:55 <Guest25459> that last point sounds pretty bad. Can it break my system?
Jan 17 20:45:06 <merlin1991> yep
Jan 17 20:45:13 <Guest25459> :o
Jan 17 20:45:40 <merlin1991> first thing that usually goes down is sip calls and the email desktop widget
Jan 17 20:45:48 <merlin1991> after that other things get removed each time
Jan 17 20:45:48 <Guest25459> ok, so basically my options are the default gui or cmdline? or is there anything else like fapman?
Jan 17 20:46:06 <merlin1991> default gui or cmdline is it (sadly)
Jan 17 20:47:08 <Guest25459> ugh... I'm sorry to say but the default gui plain sucks. This is the reason I installed fapman :(
Jan 17 20:47:37 <merlin1991> well I agree with you on that one, but there is no alternative (for system upgrades like cssu) everything else I just do over cmdline
Jan 17 20:50:18 <Guest25459> yes, I can use the commandline to install something (and I don't really mind), but when searching for a particular application a gui is much nicer 
Jan 17 20:50:33 <Guest25459> aka "I want a todo list"
Jan 17 20:50:46 <Guest25459> then searching via apt is not very convenient
Jan 17 20:50:55 <merlin1991> apt-cache search lists pretty much the same as ham did :
Jan 17 20:50:57 <merlin1991> :D
Jan 17 20:51:53 <Guest25459> I haven't tried apt-cache search on n900, but if it's anything like desktop linux apt-cache, then no, I don't agree
Jan 17 20:52:55 <Guest25459> apt-cache search results often contain a lot of stuff that are not related to the original query
Jan 17 20:53:00 <Guest25459> but we digress
Jan 17 20:54:47 <Guest25459> strange... HAM fails to update some catalogs
Jan 17 20:55:11 <merlin1991> can be loads of things
Jan 17 20:55:17 <merlin1991> sometimes ham just doesn't like you
Jan 17 20:55:34 <merlin1991> or you have no proper internet connection
Jan 17 20:55:45 <Guest25459> internet seems to work
Jan 17 20:55:50 <merlin1991> or the webservers that host those catalogs are down for some reason
Jan 17 20:56:14 <Guest25459> cssu testing for example gives me 302
Jan 17 20:57:21 <Guest25459> others say network unreachable (ovi, nokia system update)
Jan 17 21:12:38 <Guest25459> and seemingly preenv is also not shown in HAM ...
Jan 17 21:13:22 <Guest25459> merlin1991: I have to go now. I guess I'll have to use the commandline anyway. Thank you for the information and warning :)
Jan 17 21:13:27 <Guest25459> bye!
Jan 17 21:45:02 <Snii> Hi, I have an n900 that I would like to just run as a separate always on server or similiar at home. I was thinking of having it boot to the terminal only to have some more resources free.. 1. Is it worth it to not run the "desktop". 2. Is it possible/hard?
Jan 17 21:49:06 <MohammadAG> worth it? not sure
Jan 17 21:49:10 <MohammadAG> possible, yeah
Jan 17 21:51:05 <Snii> MohammadAG: The optimal thing would be to have it as a "dumb" box connected to my Wifi network, only running a few scripts now and then, presumably not using much power doing so,
Jan 17 21:51:53 <Snii> But I'm not quite sure where to start..
Jan 17 22:02:48 <merlin1991> edit upstart remove userland?
Jan 17 22:02:59 <merlin1991> and just boot into xterm?
Jan 17 22:22:17 <AIN2> that's actually my plan, using it as a server or something at home (by running debian), once N900 simply gets too old. 
Jan 17 22:52:21 <DocScrutinizer> meh, if he wasn't a driveby asker, I'd suggest he should look into ACT_DEAD initstate
Jan 17 22:53:10 <DocScrutinizer> you already got in place all you need to have a pretty convenient to use "server" without GUI
Jan 17 22:53:49 <DocScrutinizer> and you even have a button to switch between "serbver" and full "gui" mode: power-button
Jan 17 22:55:21 <DocScrutinizer> just look into mce.ini and start to think about what you see there
Jan 17 23:09:29 <trumee> MohammadAG: still alive!
Jan 17 23:09:50 <trumee> MohammadAG: tmo has been moaning about you.
Jan 17 23:31:00 <Estel_> Does anyone have idea, what *exactly* is shutdown and reboot button doing?
Jan 17 23:31:08 <Estel_> I plan to prepare .sh rewrite, as I would like to to safely unmount TrueCrypt volumes before shutdowning
Jan 18 02:38:35 <plate> i thnk dsme daemon is involved
Jan 18 02:39:08 <plate> sort of the runtime init system i guess
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 18 02:59:56 2012