**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 23 02:59:57 2012
Jan 23 03:24:51 <lolcat`> Hmm
Jan 23 03:27:06 <lolcat`> The N900 I want to buy was bougth for $774, so if they can't fix the charger port twice I will get it fixed
Jan 23 03:36:03 <GeneralAntilles> lolcat`, USD?
Jan 23 03:42:35 <lolcat`> yes
Jan 23 03:43:33 <lolcat`> I can purchase it for $302 so I can do a bit better than doubling my money
Jan 23 04:11:29 <ebzzry> Hi! Is it normal for the second CSSU update listed in HAM (200+KB) to not continue, after installing the first one (more than 10 MB)?
Jan 23 05:22:38 <AndrewX192> "I don't want salted data (for some OCD reason) but I want it to be crack proof (at least for a while)."
Jan 23 05:32:56 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: SpeedEvil: for me, the voice part dies too until reboot
Jan 23 05:55:13 <DocScrutinizer> a happy new year of the dragon to all Chinese users! :-)
Jan 23 09:32:12 <fredddd> Robot101, how do I remove the package that I installed a while back to test for you?
Jan 23 09:32:32 <fredddd> libloudmouth1-0_1.4.1-0osso10.1_armel.deb
Jan 23 09:33:19 <fredddd> Or if anyone else knows? I recently installed that package through dpkg, how do I remove it now?
Jan 23 09:33:21 <SpeedEvil> bindi: md5sum
Jan 23 11:44:31 <peb> Hi folks, anyone using cron-tasks on his n900?
Jan 23 11:45:06 <peb> s /tasks/job/ .... sorry for that
Jan 23 11:45:56 <khertan> peb, nope i m not sure it s available, even it s recommanded to use alarmd , so take a look at alarmed
Jan 23 11:46:49 <peb> khertan, thanks for that hint. I was reading something about fcron, but the info on that is from Aug 2010 ... somehow dated.
Jan 23 12:54:39 <Macer> hm
Jan 23 16:49:30 <Sazpaimon_> okay so
Jan 23 16:49:39 <Sazpaimon_> where do pictures on the cssu camera app get stored
Jan 23 16:50:13 <Sazpaimon_> im trying to get my girlfriend to send me a picture she just took from the N900, and she plugs it in mass storage mode and she says its not there
Jan 23 17:09:56 <Sazpaimon_> nevermind, turns out she didnt notice mass storage mode creates 2 devices
Jan 23 19:32:38 <freemangordon> ping trumee
Jan 23 19:39:46 <Estel_> guly, ping?
Jan 23 19:40:32 <trumee> freemangordon: pong
Jan 23 19:41:03 <freemangordon> trumee, are you developer?
Jan 23 19:41:12 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  ping?
Jan 23 19:41:20 <trumee> freemangordon: not really :)
Jan 23 19:41:24 <Estel_> freemangordon,  any news on alternate repo?
Jan 23 19:41:41 <trumee> freemangordon: what info do you need?
Jan 23 19:42:03 <freemangordon> Estel_, latest from DocScrutinizer is that he withdraws his offer to host the repo AFAIK
Jan 23 19:42:15 <Estel_> ?!? any reasons?
Jan 23 19:42:22 <freemangordon> trumee, I was hoping you can build the kernel fit DEBUG BT subsystem
Jan 23 19:42:39 <Estel_> no problem, we can do it other way, but some rationale would be great
Jan 23 19:42:58 <freemangordon> Estel_, look at the logs from previous week
Jan 23 19:43:02 <Estel_> oh god
Jan 23 19:43:15 <Estel_> any keywords for search?
Jan 23 19:43:20 <Estel_> "repos"?
Jan 23 19:43:38 <trumee> freemangordon: i have scratchbox setup here with kp49 sources. How do i build BT with debug?
Jan 23 19:43:50 <Estel_> I haven't been on irc due to time limitations, and reading through whole logs is pita. Damn irc :P
Jan 23 19:44:26 <Estel_> screw that, if he doesn't want, no prolblem. Will try alternatives. Sorry for bothering You, but guly is still intersted in sysadmining?
Jan 23 19:44:43 <trumee> freemangordon: if syslog is going to help, i can set that up on N900
Jan 23 19:44:46 <freemangordon> Estel_, Tuesday or Wednesday, not sure. july wants to help, yeah
Jan 23 19:44:57 <Estel_> at least, logs from maemo-ssu or maemo?
Jan 23 19:45:01 <Estel_> thanks...
Jan 23 19:45:05 <freemangordon> trumee, don't think so, give me a couple of minutes
Jan 23 19:45:12 <trumee> freemangordon: sure
Jan 23 19:45:24 <freemangordon> I will try to find a patch to enable DEBUG BT
Jan 23 19:45:40 <freemangordon> I've done it already, just need to find it :D
Jan 23 19:49:10 <Estel_> ok, foun that
Jan 23 19:49:15 <Estel_> thanks freemangordon
Jan 23 19:49:19 <freemangordon> np
Jan 23 19:49:41 <Estel_> to be honest, reading through this log and DocScrutinizer irrationale behavior, I thinks it's bettr that he woin't be hosting it anyway
Jan 23 19:50:09 <Estel_> I'm in touch with SD69, I hope guly work wasn't too host-oriented
Jan 23 19:55:15 <freemangordon> trumee, I cannot find the patch file to compile BT with DEBUG messages enabled, so I will need to make a new one. Unfortunately it will take a while (read won't happen today). I will PM you patch when I am ready , but expect it by the and of the week, have very busy program these days :). 
Jan 23 19:55:16 <Estel_> I know that CSSU problems are "kinda" solved already, but KP problems aren't.
Jan 23 19:55:51 <freemangordon> Estel_, yeah, BT bug and wifi bug must be smashed before moving KP to CSSU
Jan 23 19:55:55 <trumee> freemangordon: thats fine. do you own a Nokia BH-214?
Jan 23 19:56:08 <Estel_> also, mirroring repos is quite important for other aspect, yes? At least the community ones, for ,start
Jan 23 19:57:10 <freemangordon> nope, if i have one I will debug it myself. My BT headset works though(platronics). 
Jan 23 19:57:25 <freemangordon> trumee ^^^
Jan 23 19:58:00 <trumee> freemangordon: no worries. let me know once you find a patch.
Jan 23 19:59:10 <freemangordon> Estel_ , I think my position was clear, i.e. I would prefer to stay with Nokia and maemo.org if possible. And excluding OVI keys and KP repo case I am not aware of any outstanding problems.
Jan 23 19:59:33 <freemangordon> And KP problem will resolve itself once KP is part of CSSU
Jan 23 20:00:09 <freemangordon> The point is we are not on a hurry right now ;)
Jan 23 20:00:23 <Estel_> Well, You can talk for nokia repos (community ones) stability?
Jan 23 20:00:34 <Estel_> today, cssu problem is solved, but by mohammad, not nokia
Jan 23 20:00:44 <Estel_> Xfade told some bullshit about errors in cssu repos
Jan 23 20:00:50 <freemangordon> Well, it was not Nokia to create it
Jan 23 20:00:51 <Estel_> promised to fix it in few days
Jan 23 20:01:03 <Estel_> and of course no action was took
Jan 23 20:01:17 <Estel_> generally I agree
Jan 23 20:01:30 <Estel_> yet, I think it's better to act when there is no hurry
Jan 23 20:01:36 <freemangordon> AIUI X-Fade said he will look after the issue by the end of the January
Jan 23 20:01:44 <Estel_> than doing only "lifesavers" when thinks go bad again
Jan 23 20:01:53 <Estel_> another issue
Jan 23 20:01:59 <Estel_> KP was meant to be first
Jan 23 20:02:11 <Estel_> BTW i don't belive this "errors" in cssu repos
Jan 23 20:02:18 <Estel_> do You eperience them?:)
Jan 23 20:02:37 <Estel_> judging by logs from last irc meeting, it's so severe, it alnost should not work at all
Jan 23 20:02:44 <freemangordon> Estel_, the errors in question were not in CSSU repo
Jan 23 20:02:54 <Estel_> sounds like poor-man excuse for not assigning 2nd maintainer
Jan 23 20:02:57 <freemangordon> *are not
Jan 23 20:03:02 <freemangordon> nope
Jan 23 20:03:09 <freemangordon> the problem is with the keys
Jan 23 20:03:11 <Estel_> hm, ASIU from logs, he told it also about CSSU
Jan 23 20:03:15 <Estel_> hm
Jan 23 20:03:28 <Estel_> ok, maybe it's me that missunderstood it
Jan 23 20:03:31 <freemangordon> I do not get it that way, only extras-...
Jan 23 20:03:54 <Estel_> well, 7 months is more than enough to look into issue
Jan 23 20:04:02 <freemangordon> so, CSSU maintainership problem is with the private/public keys
Jan 23 20:04:12 <Estel_> first 3 months went, when he was rejecting problem existence at all
Jan 23 20:04:36 <freemangordon> who? X-Fade? don't think so.
Jan 23 20:04:51 <freemangordon> if we are talking about CSSU
Jan 23 20:05:06 <freemangordon> extras-devel is another beer
Jan 23 20:05:19 <freemangordon> And I agree no action was/is taken
Jan 23 20:05:37 <TNZfr> Hi all
Jan 23 20:06:16 <freemangordon> But anyway there is a solution, so there is enough time to setup things in a correct way if Nokia is to shutdoown maemo.org by the end of 2012
Jan 23 20:06:26 <TNZfr> Question about last update of CSSU few days ago in devel depot : what's inside ?
Jan 23 20:06:49 <Estel_> freemangordon,  about no action I mean KP now
Jan 23 20:06:50 <TNZfr> didn't find the changelog 
Jan 23 20:07:11 <Estel_> many months without even checking that and requesting Pali to try useless "workarounds"
Jan 23 20:07:20 <Estel_> then, 4 months of, erm, extensive fixing
Jan 23 20:07:23 <freemangordon> Which I don't believe will happen, too many orphans now
Jan 23 20:07:32 <Estel_> yet I agree, that there is time
Jan 23 20:07:33 <freemangordon> Estel_, I agree
Jan 23 20:07:50 <freemangordon> But KP is not an issue anymore
Jan 23 20:07:57 <freemangordon> Neither is CSSU
Jan 23 20:07:57 <TNZfr> and an other question about EAP-SIM availability on N900 ?
Jan 23 20:08:05 <Estel_> I also don't belive Nokia will close it. Of course, there is a chance that Nokia won't exist as Nokia by end of 2012 ;)
Jan 23 20:08:11 <freemangordon> :D
Jan 23 20:08:13 <freemangordon> yeah
Jan 23 20:08:30 <freemangordon> well, it is not funny :(
Jan 23 20:08:55 <TNZfr> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-22/nokia-lumia-sales-seen-topping-1-million-in-respite-for-stock.html
Jan 23 20:09:15 <freemangordon> TNZfr, which mens what exactly?
Jan 23 20:09:18 <freemangordon> *means
Jan 23 20:09:24 <TNZfr> 1.4 million of N9 for 1.3 million of Lumia800 :D
Jan 23 20:09:30 <freemangordon> so?
Jan 23 20:09:39 <TNZfr> freemangordon: which question ?
Jan 23 20:09:40 <freemangordon> lumia is going to save Nokia?
Jan 23 20:09:45 <Estel_> well, let alone other things, I feel we lose at least part of momentum by sticking with Nokia, but it may be only my personal opinion. Even such small projects like Maliit feel, that they benefit from own infrastructure and independence
Jan 23 20:10:21 <gregoa> TNZfr: cssu changelog: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog
Jan 23 20:10:24 <Estel_> sticking with sinking ship isn'5 best morale booster :P
Jan 23 20:10:36 <Estel_> hahaha, +1 gregoa
Jan 23 20:10:45 <freemangordon> Estel_, I don't think there is any problem work on that direction to continue, just want to point we are not on a hurry right now
Jan 23 20:11:05 <TNZfr> gregoa: thanks
Jan 23 20:12:20 <Estel_> freemangordon,  100% agree, I'm not "arguing" with You ;)
Jan 23 20:12:20 <freemangordon> Estel_, I meant the direction for Nokia independant repos
Jan 23 20:12:27 <Estel_> just, well discussing :P
Jan 23 20:12:37 <freemangordon> of course :)
Jan 23 20:12:55 <freemangordon> I am not the negatron man ;)
Jan 23 20:13:09 <Estel_> I think You're far from one ;)
Jan 23 20:13:36 <freemangordon> Anyway, I have to leave now
Jan 23 20:13:48 <RST38h> So, Estel, how is your progress creating independent repository for the cssu developers?
Jan 23 20:14:05 <freemangordon> bb
Jan 23 20:14:49 <Estel_> see ya freemangordon
Jan 23 20:15:22 <Estel_> RST38h,  "negatron" word was used and You just showed up. what a "accident" ;)
Jan 23 20:15:53 <Estel_> well, DocScrutinizer rejected his offer to host, so my idea is to make micro-fundraise for starting few months of host, and proceed
Jan 23 20:16:11 <Estel_> as planned. If SD69 accept that, we will start immediately.
Jan 23 20:18:53 <rd> Does anybody know if there are log data from the jabber client (telepathy) on the n900 ?
Jan 23 20:19:17 <rd> I have trouble with azimuth....
Jan 23 20:19:51 <RST38h> Estel: I see.
Jan 23 20:20:15 <Sicelo> rd: none afaik. your best bet is wireshark, i think
Jan 23 20:23:20 <Estel_> RST38h,  if You ask me, DocScrutinizer acted irrationaly - rejected his offer after few days, when guly was almost finishing preparations - due to "lack of progress".
Jan 23 20:24:00 <Estel_> Well, It was volunteer offer so no rant from my side, but I though he is more... "Stable" with responsible propositios
Jan 23 20:24:09 * Estel_ meant propositions
Jan 23 20:24:27 <Estel_> in light for that, it's even better that it turned out so fast
Jan 23 20:25:19 <Estel_> BTW, it isn't *my* creation of independent repos ;) I just talked few people together. I'm small mouse here ;)
Jan 23 20:26:41 <Sicelo> Estel_: i think toning down your language when talking about others won't hurt. these are people you're talking about, not bots. i'm not saying current situation is fun to see, but there's more 'polite' ways to get things done.
Jan 23 20:27:12 <Sicelo> maybe i'm off-side, but it's how i see it
Jan 23 20:27:25 <Estel_> Sicelo, our temperaments may wary, IMO I'm using lightest words ;)
Jan 23 20:27:55 <Estel_> anyway, "irrationale" doesn't seem to be most offdending word in my personal language.
Jan 23 20:28:03 <Estel_> dictionary, I mean.
Jan 23 20:28:29 <Estel_> well, maybe translated to other non-english languages it's more offending, IDK.
Jan 23 20:29:20 <Estel_> anyway, irrational compared to ADHD (*not* used as medical term) seems to be meritocratic opinion.
Jan 23 20:29:46 <Sicelo> i'm scared how u speak when using 'strong' language then .. i also followed ED thread, and u probably remember this post .. http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1150175&postcount=2513
Jan 23 20:29:56 <Estel_> excuse me if You felt offended in any way - it wasn't my purpose
Jan 23 20:30:27 <Sicelo> nope. i am not offended. i just wonder u won't offend others
Jan 23 20:30:45 <MohammadAG> may I ask why we're moving away from Nokia?
Jan 23 20:30:49 <Estel_> I remember this post, and still don't get WTF, especially, that he didn't answered.
Jan 23 20:31:10 <Estel_> "he ignored me" doesn't sound like offensive language, either.
Jan 23 20:31:18 <Estel_> it's rather stating facts.
Jan 23 20:31:43 <Sicelo> Estel_: that's why i used the word, 'toning down' 
Jan 23 20:32:02 <Estel_> I proposed contributing my image, few days passed with many posts from his side without any note about that proposition = he ignored it. No rant. No grief. Just stating fact, without any irony.
Jan 23 20:32:18 <Estel_> how would You tone "ignored"?
Jan 23 20:32:36 <Estel_> "probably forget to answer"?
Jan 23 20:32:48 <Estel_> sounds like neotalking IMO
Jan 23 20:33:08 <Sicelo> i aint going down that path Estel_. i was just making a 'friendly' suggestion
Jan 23 20:33:46 <Estel_> no problem. I asked also without irony, if You're wondering. I was really curious, what You see offending in "ignored" ;)
Jan 23 20:34:19 <RST38h> Estel_: You talk too much.
Jan 23 20:34:23 <MohammadAG> He sees offending in the way you posted
Jan 23 20:34:37 <MohammadAG> and that ^
Jan 23 20:34:43 <Estel_> maybe its some folklore - here in Poland, we had 50 years of "not our" goverment, that was using round words to go around what he wanted to say
Jan 23 20:34:46 <MohammadAG> s/offending/offense
Jan 23 20:35:35 <Estel_> I agree, that it may sound harsh - sometimes - for western people. Well, I'm sugar-coating some posts, but don't have time for it on regular basis ;)
Jan 23 20:35:47 <Sicelo> i'm african :D
Jan 23 20:35:55 <Estel_> :)
Jan 23 20:36:06 <MohammadAG> Middle eastern
Jan 23 20:36:23 <Estel_> Let me guess, Israel?
Jan 23 20:36:45 <MohammadAG> says that on my profile, so I can say you guessed(?) correctly :p
Jan 23 20:36:53 <Estel_> haven't checked
Jan 23 20:36:55 <merlin1991> central europe :D
Jan 23 20:37:30 <Estel_> hm, theoretically I'm also central europe, but like to say "east from west, west from east"
Jan 23 20:37:41 <Estel_> which have some benefits, not only cons ;)
Jan 23 20:37:56 <MohammadAG> that can be vertical or horizontal center
Jan 23 20:37:58 <MohammadAG> be specific
Jan 23 20:38:23 <merlin1991> MohammadAG: center center :D
Jan 23 20:38:27 <Sicelo> he said Poland ;)
Jan 23 20:38:27 <MohammadAG> you may use Qt::Center in future sentences
Jan 23 20:38:44 <Estel_> more honest relationships than regular western (europe) countries, yet more "polished" and structural than eastern(europe)l Of course, it's gneralizing a little.
Jan 23 20:39:01 <MohammadAG> Polished, I see what you did there
Jan 23 20:39:12 <Sicelo> anyone knows how i can get out of non-booting bootmenu without removing battery?
Jan 23 20:39:21 <Estel_> erm, I hope so, can't find correct word for it.
Jan 23 20:39:44 <Estel_> Sicelo, tried holding power button for ~10 sec?
Jan 23 20:39:44 <guly> Estel_: i think you should first agree on what you need/want
Jan 23 20:39:52 <Estel_> hey guly
Jan 23 20:39:54 <MohammadAG> Sicelo, stuff an insulator between the battery + - and the device's
Jan 23 20:40:03 <Sicelo> heh :)
Jan 23 20:40:05 <merlin1991> lol mag :D
Jan 23 20:40:07 <Estel_> me? I'm just guy that write much, ask RST38h ;)
Jan 23 20:40:20 <guly> just what a foreigner see :)
Jan 23 20:40:27 <Estel_> guly -> I'm in touch with SD69(only one qctive council member)
Jan 23 20:41:41 <Estel_> as You probably know, DocScrutinizer in his (IMO, humble, etc regular sugar coating apply here) irrational decision, rejected hosng
Jan 23 20:42:16 <guly> yes i know but he also said that a separate repo is not what they need now
Jan 23 20:42:16 * Estel_ meant hosting
Jan 23 20:42:25 <Estel_> "they"?
Jan 23 20:42:31 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  isn't any "they"
Jan 23 20:42:37 <guly> IIRC merlin1991 and MohammadAG agreed on this
Jan 23 20:42:38 <Estel_> he is nor CSSU or KP team
Jan 23 20:43:03 <Estel_> well, if You scrollback a little, we talked it with freemangordon
Jan 23 20:43:09 <Estel_> it's looking likke that:
Jan 23 20:43:29 <Estel_> we're not in *hurry*, i.e. everything isn't collapsing around...
Jan 23 20:43:47 <Estel_> Yet, it's good to proceed now, because it's better to do such thing peacefuly
Jan 23 20:44:01 <Estel_> intead of in hurry ;)
Jan 23 20:44:07 <Estel_> KP need external repos still.
Jan 23 20:44:25 <Estel_> it can promote out of devel and nokia maintentance isn't acting as it should
Jan 23 20:44:54 <MohammadAG> I fail to see what you want to achieve Estel_ 
Jan 23 20:44:56 <Estel_> KP problem may be solved by moving it to community kernel ("forking"), but it's not to happen very soon
Jan 23 20:45:00 <MohammadAG> KP needs no extra repo
Jan 23 20:45:06 <Estel_> MohammadAG,  see "ask the council" thread
Jan 23 20:45:15 <MohammadAG> KP needs devs to sanitize the package and push to main CSSU thread
Jan 23 20:45:34 <MohammadAG> Pali's doing a great job, but it can't replace the stock kernel as is
Jan 23 20:45:45 <Estel_> guly, for now, we're wanting CSSU and KP mirror, period. Accounting to roadmap, if it succeed and prove useful, whole repos mirroring.
Jan 23 20:46:35 <MohammadAG> roadmap, ahem
Jan 23 20:46:37 <Estel_> MohammadAG,  moving KP to other name and unifying with CSSU is great, but for repos problem, it's just ugly workaround
Jan 23 20:46:47 <MohammadAG> what repos problem
Jan 23 20:47:01 <Estel_> erm, You don't seem to be much up to date, yep?
Jan 23 20:47:19 <Estel_> for almost a year KP can't be promoted out of devel
Jan 23 20:47:29 <Estel_> 7 months ago it was reported to X-Fade
Jan 23 20:47:36 <Estel_> and re-reported repeatedly
Jan 23 20:47:49 <Estel_> for 3 months he was denying problem at all.
Jan 23 20:48:00 <Estel_> another 4 months, he is "fixing" it.
Jan 23 20:48:03 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: I don't like to see getiting flames for NOT supplying my own host for a project that's short on elementary things like manpower for maintenance. So your rant is rather contraproductive for your own aims
Jan 23 20:48:05 <MohammadAG> And what's the cssu got to do with this?
Jan 23 20:48:14 <Estel_> Pali is pissed  really
Jan 23 20:48:31 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  no rant. You had right to reject at any time
Jan 23 20:48:42 <Estel_> I'm surprised that You did after 4 days
Jan 23 20:48:59 <Estel_> but, well. Better sooner than later. It's just my personal opinion.
Jan 23 20:49:54 <Estel_> MohammadAG,  CSSU problem was solved now due to Your action with keys, but it may re-appear in future (no personal attack). Also, other packages have simillar probleml.
Jan 23 20:50:16 <Estel_> Nokia support for report is non-existant.
Jan 23 20:50:38 <Estel_> also, sticvking with Nokia The Sinking Ship is quite edemoralizing, wasting momentum.
Jan 23 20:50:41 <MohammadAG> how will it reappear in the future?
Jan 23 20:50:54 <MohammadAG> I doubt a bus will hit me and merlin1991 
Jan 23 20:50:56 <Estel_> devs are pissed off, that maintainership request are proceed in like 3 months
Jan 23 20:51:34 <Estel_> well, it's always better to have community control over repos, than always need to ask someone no"-wo-cooperative (Nokia, X-fade)
Jan 23 20:51:45 <Estel_> one day, CSSU may fail to upload due to some bug
Jan 23 20:52:00 <Estel_> happy waiting for 7 months to fix it, like with KP
Jan 23 20:52:24 <Estel_> Maemo community is maturate enough, for a long time, to self-govern.
Jan 23 20:53:00 <Estel_> latest meeting with Nokians showed they epic disrespect for Maemo community, council etc.
Jan 23 20:53:08 <Estel_> read short logs from meeting.
Jan 23 20:54:10 <Estel_> not to mention that Nokia's left hand doesn't know what right is doing.
Jan 23 20:54:33 <Estel_> Left hand promised QT-like transfer of Maemo governing including trademarks
Jan 23 20:54:44 <Estel_> (see "ask the council" again, with sources)
Jan 23 20:55:01 <Estel_> right hand told us, that it's a no-go
Jan 23 20:55:25 <Estel_> they're hopeless to cooperate, and much momentum is wasted due to this "partnership"
Jan 23 20:55:48 <Estel_> lately, they want to unify us with appsformeego shit. Without even asking about opinion ;)
Jan 23 20:56:22 <Estel_> well, I'm basically re-writing what was said in sources I've pointed You to - thread with Council and logs from meeting with Nokia
Jan 23 20:56:29 <Estel_> so excuse me for ending here ;)
Jan 23 20:57:00 <Estel_> BTW, accepted roadmap is also on "Ask the Council" thread, overall discussion is on last few pages (less than 10).
Jan 23 20:58:02 <Estel_> Overall, there is quite consensus, that we should prepare independent infrastructure. *Not* in haste, but if relations with Nokia went even worse than now, we can always do LibreOffice way.
Jan 23 20:58:14 <Estel_> Having infrastructure prepared, it's much easier.
Jan 23 21:01:04 <DocScrutinizer> so goddam prepare your team to drive the infra - *first*
Jan 23 21:03:20 <freemangordon> Hmm, july is right, we need to agree (once again)
Jan 23 21:04:16 <freemangordon> Just a week ago there was an agreement that independent repo is a must. Now it turns that it is a wasted effort.
Jan 23 21:04:30 <Estel_> just because one problem was fixed, eh?
Jan 23 21:04:34 <Estel_> with CSSU?
Jan 23 21:04:40 <Estel_> until nextm appear?
Jan 23 21:05:03 <Estel_> well, it seems that consensus is still there, just some people lost urgent interest.
Jan 23 21:05:13 <guly> Estel_: i read just now your question and the answer is yes
Jan 23 21:05:31 <guly> but, as i said, i'd like all of you to agree on something
Jan 23 21:05:38 <Estel_> I see
Jan 23 21:05:39 <guly> even if it's coke/pepsi debate :)
Jan 23 21:05:45 <DocScrutinizer> some people never got urgent interest in a separate hardware, just in co-maintainers
Jan 23 21:05:56 <Estel_> well, guly, project is community driven, not CSSU driven, anyway
Jan 23 21:06:17 <Estel_> guly, Council seems supportive for idea
Jan 23 21:06:26 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, so what to do, shut down the project? 
Jan 23 21:06:45 <DocScrutinizer> freemangordon: ???
Jan 23 21:06:54 <Estel_> I think Pali will be happy to GTFO from buggy Nokia repos
Jan 23 21:06:59 <freemangordon> I cannot get your point
Jan 23 21:07:05 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer ^^^
Jan 23 21:07:08 <Estel_> I'm quite sure, that other maintainers of orphaned packages too
Jan 23 21:07:15 <freemangordon> what do you think should be done?
Jan 23 21:07:18 <Estel_> brb, dinner.
Jan 23 21:07:49 <DocScrutinizer> I don't know how I could tell you what to do, but I'm sure you were not able to shut down any project not driven and hosted in your very private universe
Jan 23 21:08:19 <DocScrutinizer> MY point?
Jan 23 21:08:27 <freemangordon> Yeah
Jan 23 21:08:47 <freemangordon> a ago there was a discussion here
Jan 23 21:08:50 <freemangordon> *a week
Jan 23 21:09:07 <DocScrutinizer> I got some urgent business that'S incidentally not at all related to Nokia or maemo, recently. My whole point
Jan 23 21:09:21 <freemangordon> ok
Jan 23 21:09:49 <DocScrutinizer> I try to help where I can and see ROI
Jan 23 21:10:26 <DocScrutinizer> I like Investment of time, Return like "it made a difference"
Jan 23 21:11:35 <DocScrutinizer> I'm NOT going to nuke 30GB on my server box to make space for a repo that got no maintainer
Jan 23 21:12:21 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer, I think the case with the hosting is closed, should we discuss it?
Jan 23 21:12:38 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_ is very enthusiastic but alas that won't get work done
Jan 23 21:13:10 <freemangordon> Well, let him try
Jan 23 21:13:30 <DocScrutinizer> and I'm afk now again, as I got no point but a flu
Jan 23 21:17:35 <Estel_> hm, the fun thing is that it's not *my*project. I just contribute time by "talking together* people and ideas.
Jan 23 21:17:46 <Estel_> mirrorin repos is "ancient" idea.
Jan 23 21:18:01 <Estel_> Troubles with Nokia haven't started yesterday.
Jan 23 21:18:23 <Estel_> I don't understand why You don't see guly as maintainer-to-be DocScrutinizer.
Jan 23 21:18:37 <Estel_> Not discussing hosting, as it's closed topic indeed
Jan 23 21:19:01 <guly> (i won't give maintainer status to a one week old member)
Jan 23 21:19:26 <Estel_> by I You mean him, or what?
Jan 23 21:19:39 <guly> i mean me
Jan 23 21:19:42 <freemangordon> he meant guly :)
Jan 23 21:20:05 <Estel_> sorry, I'm lost. You won't give a maintainer to whom?
Jan 23 21:20:10 <freemangordon> hmm, I think we already have maintainers, why the hell is that discussed
Jan 23 21:20:17 <freemangordon> to july
Jan 23 21:20:22 <DocScrutinizer> maintainer!=admin
Jan 23 21:20:29 <freemangordon> guly
Jan 23 21:20:33 <Estel_> who the hell is july ;)
Jan 23 21:20:45 <DocScrutinizer> and that's (or the lack of understanding thereof) is the crux
Jan 23 21:20:47 <freemangordon> sorry, typo i meant guly
Jan 23 21:20:51 <Estel_> ok
Jan 23 21:20:58 <Estel_> well, CSSU got maintainers
Jan 23 21:21:01 <Estel_> what the problem
Jan 23 21:21:04 <Estel_> KP too.
Jan 23 21:21:23 <Estel_> "freemangordon> hmm, I think we already have maintainers, why the hell is that discussed"
Jan 23 21:21:30 <Estel_> ^+1
Jan 23 21:22:21 <DocScrutinizer> yes, and those maintainers clearly don't support that project
Jan 23 21:22:27 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  I know that sysadmin != maintainer, still fail to see problem here
Jan 23 21:22:30 <Estel_> LOL
Jan 23 21:22:47 <Estel_> "we aren't in urgent need" != "we don't support"
Jan 23 21:23:19 <Estel_> expressing personal opinions != we won't maintain it, if it happens
Jan 23 21:23:19 <DocScrutinizer> whatever, no topic for me
Jan 23 21:23:27 <Estel_> yea, I think so.
Jan 23 21:24:57 <freemangordon> need to have some sleep, nite
Jan 23 21:25:39 <Estel_> good night!
Jan 23 21:26:08 <Estel_> guly,  $D69 or, in wort case, me ;) will contact You via PM on forum ok?
Jan 23 21:26:17 <Estel_> this whole irc is too time consuming ;)
Jan 23 21:26:59 <Estel_> plan is to do micro fundraising, buy hosting for few months, and proceed with plan, if You're still interested (guly)
Jan 23 21:27:23 <guly> sure
Jan 23 21:27:52 <Estel_> also, special thread will be created (You will be PM'ed with it), so You'll be able to watch progress any time. it will take few days/week or so, probably
Jan 23 21:28:10 <Estel_> If You can prepare something "off line", it would be nice tp do it ahead
Jan 23 21:28:31 <Estel_> freemangordon will help in any CSSU related thing about maintaining it
Jan 23 21:28:37 <Estel_> he got same nick on forum
Jan 23 21:29:03 <Estel_> Pali, who is also Pali on forum, will gladly help about KP things if any questions arise
Jan 23 21:29:08 <Estel_> as for that, nothing changed
Jan 23 21:29:27 <Sicelo>  /win 25
Jan 23 21:29:34 <Sicelo> sorry :s
Jan 23 21:29:35 <Estel_> Pali is much easier reachable via forum than IRC, at least compared to freemangordon (who is reachable via both)
Jan 23 21:31:23 <Estel_> ok, see ya!
Jan 23 21:33:28 <DocScrutinizer> *sigh*
Jan 23 21:33:34 <bindi> hellooo
Jan 23 21:33:45 <bindi> what's the tweak for enabling hardware accelerated menus?
Jan 23 21:34:28 <bindi> also, my freshly flashed and just installed CSSU didn't have [thp_tweaks] in there
Jan 23 21:38:56 <Z3ROC00L> anybody here ?? 
Jan 23 21:49:48 <badcloud_> hey guys
Jan 23 21:50:06 <SpeedEvil> h
Jan 23 21:50:14 <badcloud_> when file manager formats a usd card, does it use it for swap as well as a fat32 part?
Jan 23 21:50:37 <Sicelo> not afaik
Jan 23 21:51:04 <badcloud_> strange
Jan 23 21:51:35 <badcloud_> I had multiple hangs when installing things in easy debian via apt-get
Jan 23 21:51:49 <badcloud_> never had problems when I installed it on usd
Jan 23 21:52:03 <badcloud_> right now I installed on MyDocs and am w/out usd
Jan 23 21:53:01 <Sicelo> i use mine within mydocs. no issues yet (since July) .. but if u check mailing list, these past weeks there has been discussion related to your problem
Jan 23 21:53:17 <badcloud_> have you guys had more success w/easy debian on usd than on device memory?
Jan 23 21:53:44 <Sicelo> http://maemo-community-mailing-lists.2589537.n2.nabble.com/Troubles-with-chrooted-Debian-tp7143515p7143515.html
Jan 23 21:54:07 <Sicelo> u can see if that helps u
Jan 23 21:55:00 <badcloud_> Sicelo: thanks!
Jan 23 21:55:12 <Sicelo> badcloud_: i have never had usd.. :)
Jan 23 21:55:49 <badcloud_> holy shit, I think that may be the key
Jan 23 21:56:03 <Sicelo> huh? what?
Jan 23 21:56:05 <badcloud_> nice -n 19
Jan 23 21:56:12 <Sicelo> oh :)
Jan 23 22:13:51 <bindi> cmon :p
Jan 23 22:13:56 <bindi> 23:32 < bindi> what's the tweak for enabling hardware accelerated menus?
Jan 23 22:14:20 <bindi> i remember seeing it in the wiki
Jan 23 23:43:56 <badcloud_> Sicelo: unfortunately, same result with nice -n 19
Jan 23 23:44:11 <badcloud_> I get a forced reboot
Jan 23 23:44:30 <badcloud_> and fsck has a buttload of errors for easy debian image
Jan 24 00:33:38 <whatever4ever> What's the best hardware keyboard phone? I think my n900 is done with. 
Jan 24 00:35:50 <r00t|home> get another
Jan 24 00:36:47 <whatever4ever> Is there a list of things that only the n900 can do that no android can?
Jan 24 00:36:56 <whatever4ever> It would be fun to make a  comprehensive list . . .
Jan 24 00:37:07 <LaoLang_cool> palm treo 650 is the best
Jan 24 00:37:24 <LaoLang_cool> for its keyboard...
Jan 24 00:37:25 <whatever4ever> That's barely a smartphone
Jan 24 00:38:10 <LaoLang_cool> whatever4ever: it's the best smartphone on pim..
Jan 24 00:38:16 <r00t|home> you didn't ask for a smartphone
Jan 24 00:55:57 <whatever4ever> r00t|home: not as if that would change your answer
Jan 24 01:02:00 <jpinx> whatever4ever: I think you can not run a chroot on android phones with all the apps  - as I do with debian ;)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 24 02:59:57 2012