**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 18 02:59:59 2012 Apr 18 12:40:29 well... friday i am going to get a lumia 900 Apr 18 12:40:57 time to move on with the 2nd n900 ive had in just as many years breaking on me Apr 18 12:40:59 :) Apr 18 12:41:17 plus the ms os actually looks pretty damn awesome Apr 18 12:41:55 i doubt nokia will honor the warranty for it Apr 18 12:42:24 i might open it later and see if i can see a solder break by the sim but either way i want to ditch tmob anyways... they totally suck Apr 18 12:45:40 i wish people wouldnt keep reminding me of the mortality of n900s... Apr 18 12:45:48 esp. as i havent bought a spare yet /o\ Apr 18 12:53:07 lol Apr 18 12:53:29 well... they sure had their flaws Apr 18 12:53:35 the usb port was a biggie Apr 18 12:55:44 i love the device but after this one i'm done :) Apr 18 12:55:54 it will find its place in the drawer next to the n810 heh Apr 18 12:58:23 HRH_H_Crab: my first n900 still lasts... Apr 18 13:00:53 Macer: WinMo... insane... Apr 18 13:01:33 there were more n9s sold than lumia xxxs... guess why! Apr 18 13:01:38 haha Apr 18 13:01:47 o/ Apr 18 13:02:00 3 pcs N900 here now Apr 18 13:02:09 not averse getting a 4th one Apr 18 13:02:30 DocScrutinizer: you'll get mine if my sister doesn't want it Apr 18 13:02:40 though no defects on any of them yet, apart from case scratching caused by me stepping on it Apr 18 13:03:27 (no, it wasn't on purpose ;-P ) Apr 18 13:03:29 DocScrutinizer: suggestions for a new toy? Apr 18 13:03:50 chem|st: i think the lumia 900 is different Apr 18 13:03:52 they are selling well Apr 18 13:04:00 and picking up momentum Apr 18 13:04:04 errr, if I had any, I'd not look for a pile of N900 to survive the dark times Apr 18 13:04:18 how often do your N900s break? Apr 18 13:05:00 ooh I had a defect: FPC went bonkers -> black screen Apr 18 13:05:12 took Nokia 5 weeks to repair Apr 18 13:05:18 tadzik: never Apr 18 13:06:00 lol Apr 18 13:06:11 it even survived wheat-beer coke mix 0.5L Apr 18 13:06:46 it is still my primary phone Apr 18 13:07:27 DocScrutinizer: n900 new on ebay for 250eur Apr 18 13:07:37 heh. Hearing all those "I still haven't bought my spare one" Apr 18 13:07:46 o.O Apr 18 13:08:14 http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+Phones+First+Hit+Nokia+Lumia+900+LTE+Sells+Out/article24476.htm Apr 18 13:08:21 tadzik: if they would break every 3 monts, do you think I'd bother getting spare? Apr 18 13:08:35 why, that's what I'm asking about Apr 18 13:08:54 win 28 Apr 18 13:09:10 because it's getting harder to get spare, and eventually every hw will break Apr 18 13:09:10 windows mobile's first hit lol Apr 18 13:09:27 DocScrutinizer: my mom still uses a 7 year old razr :-P Apr 18 13:09:31 chem|st: mine too Apr 18 13:09:36 but that was when motorola built stuff in the US Apr 18 13:09:46 and quality was a major concern Apr 18 13:09:54 since i read about the charger connection problem and really got to like that phone, Apr 18 13:09:58 ive been really careful with it! Apr 18 13:10:03 now companies make throwaway electronics Apr 18 13:10:16 indeed Apr 18 13:10:22 i look after my n900 more carefully than most people with a brand new iphone! Apr 18 13:10:52 the only incentive for a company to upgrade stuff and create new features is because then consumers don't feel so bad they have to throw a phone away they bought for $500 about 2 years prior Apr 18 13:11:52 well, I already "used up" 2 keymats (both have some paint coming off, usually on e/3 key) Apr 18 13:12:08 i did that as well on my last n900 Apr 18 13:12:20 the current one was actually holding up quite well tho Apr 18 13:12:22 and I 2 times dropped a N900, one time even stepped on it trying to catch it with my foot Apr 18 13:12:27 too bad the sim rader is jacked up Apr 18 13:12:43 i can do the paper thing but that's jut ghetto.. and eventually that will no longer work as well Apr 18 13:12:48 jut/just Apr 18 13:12:54 Macer: build in the US and quality is an oxymoron... Apr 18 13:13:15 please don't use the car industry as an example ;) Apr 18 13:13:25 chem|st: I wonder, what country would you trust for building stuff? Apr 18 13:13:29 my parents had a zenith television for 2 decades with no problems Apr 18 13:13:32 lol Apr 18 13:13:51 they also had a receiver that was made by a US company that they still have and still functions perfectly Apr 18 13:13:51 chem|st: I'm not from USA, so go ahead :) Apr 18 13:13:54 StyXman: germany... Apr 18 13:14:00 chem|st: hmm, true Apr 18 13:14:02 finland Apr 18 13:14:12 StyXman: :-P my nokia n900 was made in finland Apr 18 13:14:28 Made in W. Germany still applies! Apr 18 13:14:29 doesn't mean a thing Apr 18 13:14:38 with its broken sim reader that was bought in china Apr 18 13:14:43 (made in finland) Apr 18 13:14:43 Macer: your n900 was made in china... Apr 18 13:14:52 exactly Apr 18 13:14:54 chem|st: heh Apr 18 13:15:08 all electronics are made in china :-P Apr 18 13:15:13 Macer: all n900s even the developer ones are made in china Apr 18 13:15:18 or japan Apr 18 13:15:20 Macer: mine says the same, and the green led doesn't work anymore after... 5months? Apr 18 13:15:23 or korea? Apr 18 13:15:48 StyXman: that might be a mce problem... Apr 18 13:15:53 StyXman: might be starting FPC connector problem Apr 18 13:16:06 StyXman: about 5 months for mine as well ;) Apr 18 13:16:16 before the sim reader just suddenly stopped working Apr 18 13:16:44 the chinese character for months and years must have been confusing Apr 18 13:16:53 since most chinese electronics have a 5 year lifespan Apr 18 13:17:03 at least that has been the case in my experience Apr 18 13:17:07 I actually don't think N900 early failures are significantly higher than on any other device of same complexity Apr 18 13:17:14 timed solder :) Apr 18 13:17:39 nonsense Apr 18 13:18:01 DocScrutinizer: i will not believe it when someone does a study on it and proves me wrong :) Apr 18 13:18:14 aah, well you mean electronic devices made in china, not parts Apr 18 13:18:17 those asians are doing something Apr 18 13:19:00 i say timed solder... or pathways that are set to break when exposed to a certain amount of heat for x amount of time Apr 18 13:19:15 a chinese SMT LED has no way less livespan than any other one Apr 18 13:19:16 solder would be easier tho.. i'm sure you can make an easy mixture which corodes after a certain amount of time Apr 18 13:19:18 DocScrutinizer: on rebuy for 170eur Apr 18 13:20:05 DocScrutinizer: if everything lasted forever china would have a few billion starving people with no factories to work in Apr 18 13:20:05 chem|st: usually no new ones Apr 18 13:20:13 Macer: lemme guess, you´re trolling, right? Apr 18 13:20:28 i mean they're still starving.. but at least they have factories to keep their minds off the hunger :) Apr 18 13:20:31 StyXman: a little bit Apr 18 13:20:41 i'm being serious about the timed electronics tho Apr 18 13:21:11 i honestly believe there is something going on in asia where the electronics are timed to malfunction Apr 18 13:21:20 chinese stuff often is lacking any "useless" protection circuits etc Apr 18 13:21:27 Macer: most advanced countries' economies are based in consume. if shit didn't break, there would be muuuuch less consume Apr 18 13:21:43 StyXman: of course... but that's why you make new and innovative things Apr 18 13:21:45 here in .fr it's cheaper to but a new vacuum than to reapir one Apr 18 13:21:56 which results in those devices much easier break on e.g. ESD events that a decent device would survive without problems Apr 18 13:22:00 StyXman: that is every place Apr 18 13:22:05 like i said.. throwaway electronics Apr 18 13:22:17 walmart ruined the world :) Apr 18 13:22:21 Macer: you haven't been much ti the «third world», did you? Apr 18 13:22:30 sure.. i've been all over the world Apr 18 13:22:40 india was probably the worst Apr 18 13:22:50 chem|st: link? Apr 18 13:22:52 and i thought we had ghettoes here :) Apr 18 13:22:59 india is one giant slum Apr 18 13:24:13 but what do 3rd world countries have to do with asians using corrosive solder on purpose to keep sales up? Apr 18 13:24:55 Macer: in the country I grew up we repair shit because they're expensive Apr 18 13:25:21 I repaired all kinds of appliances Apr 18 13:25:36 but the main difference is: you can get the spare parts in shops Apr 18 13:25:49 here I can't find any Apr 18 13:26:40 off the top of your head was there a bigger ratio of things requiring repair which came from asia as opposed from other countries? Apr 18 13:26:46 Hi all. On my N900 I've setup openvpn in bridge (layer 2) mode. It works fine. What I want now is to create an access point such that devices connect to my phone, and have their layer2 traffic also bridged over the vpn. I've created a soft AP with airbase, and can connect. But I don't know how to forward the layer 2 traffic over the tap0 interface. Help? Apr 18 13:26:46 DocScrutinizer: http://www.rebuy.de/kaufen/suchen?q=n900&x=0&y=0 Apr 18 13:27:13 Macer: well, to be honest, most where from the country itself, and china too Apr 18 13:27:19 DocScrutinizer: sure not new, would it be rebuy if new? Apr 18 13:27:25 but I won't blame it on planned obsolesence Apr 18 13:27:43 but more on bad quality stuff Apr 18 13:27:48 probably because you didn't consider it ;) Apr 18 13:28:03 someone crunching numbers somewhere did tho Apr 18 13:28:33 Macer: it doesn't make sense if people can't buy your stuff Apr 18 13:28:50 the vacuum is broken? take a broom... Apr 18 13:29:01 ever try sweeping a carpet? Apr 18 13:29:08 it really sucks Apr 18 13:29:11 Macer: carpet? wassat? Apr 18 13:29:11 I think maybe I need to create a bridge between at0 (the soft AP) and tap0 ? Apr 18 13:29:20 lol Apr 18 13:29:28 rug? Apr 18 13:29:36 I mean, we took the only one we had for cleaning like once every year Apr 18 13:30:04 we didn't get a color tv until well into the '90 Apr 18 13:30:11 (on that second note - there doesn't seem to be the bridge-utils package available for maemo?) Apr 18 13:30:16 the VCR came later Apr 18 13:30:24 even later a cd player Apr 18 13:30:31 and only a few years ago a dvd Apr 18 13:30:52 1st cd player was '93, a gift to my sister Apr 18 13:30:59 and we were middle class, or what's left of it Apr 18 13:31:28 chem|st: for her own use, or for her family'suse? Apr 18 13:31:43 I never hav a walkman or portable cd player Apr 18 13:32:02 well, enough ranting Apr 18 13:32:11 in soviet russia we make new well to drink for chernobyl incident Apr 18 13:32:23 Macer: :))) Apr 18 13:32:25 1st cd in our houshold Apr 18 13:32:29 a little bit of that Apr 18 13:32:48 but her's Apr 18 13:33:35 narcos: sorry, no clue Apr 18 13:34:03 narcos: for stuff like that you usually need powerkernel Apr 18 13:34:38 DocScrutinizerJust managed to find brctl in busybox-power Apr 18 13:34:40 :) Apr 18 13:35:05 does it work? :) Apr 18 13:35:30 DocScrutinizer: Downloading - slow GPRS conection Apr 18 13:35:34 *connection Apr 18 13:36:12 DESCRIPTION Apr 18 13:36:14 brctl is used to set up, maintain, and inspect the ethernet bridge configuration in the linux kernel. Apr 18 13:36:32 emphasis on "in the ... kernel" Apr 18 13:36:47 DocScrutinizer: What do you mean? Apr 18 13:37:10 I mean stock kernel doesn't support such "useless" things, you need powerkernel Apr 18 13:37:41 Hmm @ the phone prompting me with "Warning: this package touches an essential system binary! Even though installation should be safe, a reflash may be required if something goes wrong" Apr 18 13:37:58 DocScrutinizer: I'm not sure what you mean - I need to update my kernel? Apr 18 13:38:07 thumbs up at messybox Apr 18 13:38:29 narcos: yes, that's what I suspect you will find out in the end Apr 18 13:38:53 DocScrutinizer: Dang - is that a difficult thing to do? i.e. I don't know how Apr 18 13:39:16 check for kernel-power in packages interface Apr 18 13:39:27 there's also a thread on tmo Apr 18 13:39:49 about "kernel-power v50" OWTTE Apr 18 13:40:21 and I'm not completely sure if bridging is supported in stock kernel as well Apr 18 13:40:36 Well, brctl installed, but doesn't seem to work, so I suspect you're right Apr 18 13:40:56 if it's needed for e.g. DUN or sth, it might already be there Apr 18 13:40:56 Apr 18 13:40:58 Nokia-N900:~# brctl show Apr 18 13:40:58 brctl: SIOCGIFBR: Package not installed Apr 18 13:40:58 Apr 18 13:41:10 see? Apr 18 13:41:39 Hmm @ : Apr 18 13:41:40 Nokia-N900:~# ls -l /usr/bin/brctl Apr 18 13:41:40 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Apr 18 15:36 /usr/bin/brctl -> /bin/busybox Apr 18 13:41:44 Apr 18 13:41:50 It's just a link to the busybox interpreter ? Apr 18 13:41:58 narcos: it's ok Apr 18 13:42:03 that's how messybox works, yes Apr 18 13:42:12 ~messybox Apr 18 13:42:13 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Apr 18 13:42:14 what you need is some support in the kernel you´re runnig Apr 18 13:42:51 StyXman: Could you elaborate ? I'm feeling a little confused Apr 18 13:43:31 narcos: you have to things to create a bridge: Apr 18 13:43:33 t900:~# apt-cache search kernel-power Apr 18 13:43:34 multiboot-kernel-power - Maemo 'kernel-power' configuration for multiboot Apr 18 13:43:36 kernel-power - Flashable Linux kernel (kernel power 2.6.28.10) Apr 18 13:43:52 a) kernel code that actually simulates a switch between your interfaces and Apr 18 13:44:03 b) a CLI util to manage it Apr 18 13:44:10 you have b), you need a) Apr 18 13:44:59 StyXman: Ah, OK. So brctl is (b) - but it can't do its business with the current kernel? Apr 18 13:45:07 narcos: AFAIK, no Apr 18 13:45:13 Oh Apr 18 13:45:17 no netfilters/ipchains, no bridging on stock kernel Apr 18 13:45:30 the original kernel lacks support for several things, mainly because the phone was not meant to do them Apr 18 13:45:45 DocScrutinizer: To install that new kernel, is it just a case of "apt-get install kernel-power" ? Apr 18 13:46:05 narcos: I strongly suggest you use HAM for that Apr 18 13:46:40 What's a HAM ? Apr 18 13:46:40 but basically yes, get the 3 relevant pkgs: kernel, kernel-flasher, kernel-modules Apr 18 13:46:50 The application manager? Apr 18 13:46:51 Hildon AppMan Apr 18 13:47:40 so yes Apr 18 13:47:59 /me Googles Apr 18 13:48:14 you definitely want to read a bit about powerkernel prior to messing with it Apr 18 13:48:51 Currently sitting on http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power :) Apr 18 13:49:01 This is cool, thanks for the help guys Apr 18 13:49:01 you don't need to google HAM though, it's simply the default GUI appman Apr 18 13:49:18 yep, that's a good starting point I guess Apr 18 13:49:42 Oh right - the one that comes with the phone on the main desktop? Apr 18 13:49:53 Doh, i've been trying to search for it to install it Apr 18 13:51:59 narcos: stick around and you'll learn maemospeak quite fast :) Apr 18 13:52:16 heh, will do :) Apr 18 13:52:18 I dig this phone Apr 18 13:55:22 Hmm I seem to have an old maemo. "The kernel package was previously called kernel-flasher-maemo" - that's what I see in my application list Apr 18 13:55:48 But I also see "Linux kernel for power user (boot image for multiboot)" Apr 18 13:58:37 Although, checking my current kernel, it looks like I already have the power one? : Apr 18 13:58:37 The kernel package was previously called kernel-flasher-maemo Apr 18 13:58:47 (wrong paste) Apr 18 13:58:48 This: Apr 18 13:58:49 Nokia-N900:~# uname -r Apr 18 13:58:49 2.6.28.10power40-wl1 Apr 18 13:59:51 narcos: it's not the original, that's for sure Apr 18 14:00:27 StyXman: So I've installed the pwniexpress pwnphone image Apr 18 14:00:33 I suspect that may be the cause Apr 18 14:04:38 Maybe a later power kernel is what I need Apr 18 14:15:17 Phew, this stuff's giving me a headache, back to other work, I'll pick it up later. Catch y'all later! Apr 18 14:25:39 narcos: get kernel-power50 Apr 18 14:27:39 nfc what's this pwnphone mage, and esp which version/tweaks vs "proper" maemo Apr 18 14:27:51 DocScrutinizer: OK cool. I'll see if I can get that installed. Apr 18 14:27:56 can I please pretty please replace the date chooser? it s**ks... Apr 18 14:28:06 Hehe Apr 18 14:28:08 While overflying a region 113.4 km from entry point at a height of 1500 meters, UAV's instruments and GPS failed and visual contact with the ground was lost. Non-essential systems were put into standby to maximize battery life and UAV was placed into freefall. As of this date, ? years later, UAV is still transmitting and is still in a state of freefall. Apr 18 14:28:37 StyXman: it sucks big time. I thought about replacing the shit in gtk lib Apr 18 14:28:51 but it seems that's not an easy thing to do Apr 18 14:29:21 Am I the only one thinking tha the date chooser is a'ok? =) Apr 18 14:29:35 RST38h: it has no DOW reference Apr 18 14:29:53 narcos: from your uname -a I gather your pwmphone thing has WLAN injection patches Apr 18 14:30:01 so «next thursday» is a guess excercise Apr 18 14:30:05 DocScrutinizer: Yeah it does Apr 18 14:30:06 kernel-power50 should come with these as well Apr 18 14:30:22 RST38h: where's that quote from? Apr 18 14:30:23 StyXman: exactly Apr 18 14:30:28 useless crap Apr 18 14:30:33 StyXman: google Apr 18 14:30:45 RST38h: «google» is quite big... Apr 18 14:31:53 Any way on pc to know if there's any update for maemo cssu? Apr 18 14:32:12 DocScrutinizer: To get a newer listing of kernel-power should I do an apt-get update .. ? Apr 18 14:32:28 StyXman: btw all slotmachine choosers suck Apr 18 14:32:41 A way needn't to run `apt-get update` on maemo Apr 18 14:33:19 narcos: I suggest you get the 3 *.dpk and install with dpkg Apr 18 14:33:30 Doc: falsely make you think the money will start streaming out of them if you get the right combination? Apr 18 14:33:40 DocScrutinizer: Oh, and on the WLAN injection note - yeah those patches allow me to create a soft access point easily with airbase, which is useful. Apr 18 14:33:43 or see if apt-get update will find it in extras-devel Apr 18 14:33:56 DocScrutinizer: OK cool I'll try that Apr 18 14:35:10 sorry headache, bbl Apr 18 14:35:29 DocScrutinizer: Ah sorry to hear that, feel better soon! Apr 18 14:36:33 Anyone know where I can find the kernel .config file on maemo? I'd like to check if CONFIG_BRIDGE is in there. Apr 18 14:39:03 Hm, maybe I need to install the headers Apr 18 14:40:02 ask Pali Apr 18 14:42:59 I think there been a way to read defconfig from device Apr 18 14:45:01 somebody tried to point modest to repository of offlineimap? Apr 18 14:45:23 i.e. displaying offlineimap folders in modest Apr 18 14:45:49 http://wiki.maemo.org/Improving_Modest_email_sync_reliability Apr 18 14:46:45 rx51power_defconfig probably Apr 18 14:47:35 http://www.google.de/search?q=rx51power_defconfig Apr 18 15:00:30 anyone here using CSSU on n900? Apr 18 15:00:42 is it reliable enough? Apr 18 15:01:10 if in doubt, use CSSU-Stable Apr 18 15:01:21 it's stable.. i use it Apr 18 15:01:54 how much modest is impoved there? Apr 18 15:02:16 Sicelo, do you use modest often? Apr 18 15:04:12 I use CSSU, but never used modest... yet? Apr 18 15:06:14 StyXman, which email client do you use then? Apr 18 15:07:23 vdv: none Apr 18 15:07:25 :| Apr 18 15:08:33 )) Apr 18 15:10:51 DocScrutinizer: Installed powerkernel50 - same trouble with brctl :( Apr 18 15:13:58 I assume you're trying this with root permissions? Apr 18 15:15:06 yeah Apr 18 15:16:15 then I dunno. Check if bridging is enabled via defconfig, ask Pali Apr 18 15:17:00 not even sure if what you try to do is supported at all, I.E. if you try to do a sane allowed thing Apr 18 15:17:31 OK I'll play with defconfig Apr 18 15:18:09 Totally not sure if what I'm trying to do is sane either Apr 18 15:18:15 Pali: Ping :) Apr 18 15:20:44 WTF Apr 18 15:20:56 I configured Maemo SIP keepalive to 30 seconds Apr 18 15:21:04 but it's doing it every HALF A SECOND -.- Apr 18 15:23:44 bah, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/source/k/kernel-power/kernel-power_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz : 69MB Apr 18 15:23:53 http://mosh.mit.edu/ Apr 18 15:24:01 would be cool for n900 perhaps? :) Apr 18 15:24:02 luke-jr: haha Apr 18 15:24:10 vdv.. not modest so often.. but occasionally, yes.. i use mutt daily ;) Apr 18 15:26:14 1 minute seems to do every 30 seconds for real Apr 18 15:27:59 Sicelo: mutt is my primary mail client... Apr 18 15:29:53 Gh0sty: if you look on the forum there is kind of a build for mosh Apr 18 15:30:05 i tried to install it yesterday without much luck. Apr 18 15:30:35 hopefully a slightly more "official" build will make the repos soon, or at least debian will get in it squeeze backports for arm so we can run it in a chroot. Apr 18 15:30:44 for some reason they support other arches but not arm... Apr 18 15:38:16 is there any sources for modest-nokiamessaging plugin or is that proprietary? Apr 18 15:39:03 (mosh) >>Roaming with SSP becomes easy: the client sends datagrams to the server with increasing sequence numbers, including a heartbeat at least once every three seconds.<< WUT? every THREE seconds?? Apr 18 15:39:21 even while idle? farewell standby time Apr 18 15:40:08 and those fools declare that as MObileSHell? BWAHAHAHA Apr 18 15:41:00 DocScrutinizer: well presumably it cant send the heartbeat if the network isnt up... Apr 18 15:41:13 so what? Apr 18 15:41:30 HRH_H_Crab: you still wake up the cpu Apr 18 15:41:38 and the transmitter Apr 18 15:41:46 DocScrutinizer: Was that 69mb url for me? Apr 18 15:41:54 StyXman: the point im trying to make, Apr 18 15:41:57 you still wake up GSM/UMTS TX, *that's* the point Apr 18 15:42:05 is that if you dont want mosh to use power Apr 18 15:42:08 close the terminal... Apr 18 15:42:08 :P Apr 18 15:42:23 narcos: somewhat, I guess most recent rx51_defconfig is in there Apr 18 15:43:14 DocScrutinizer: OK ta Apr 18 15:43:16 HRH_H_Crab: hahaha Apr 18 15:43:34 DocScrutinizer: o.k. Apr 18 15:43:38 let me put it another way Apr 18 15:43:56 are you saying that you think mosh will use more power than a standard ssh session? Apr 18 15:44:13 yes, extremely more Apr 18 15:44:25 why? Apr 18 15:44:29 hi all Apr 18 15:44:32 (all other things being equal) Apr 18 15:44:43 because of what I quoted above Apr 18 15:45:01 it makes UMTS *send* data every 3 seconds Apr 18 15:45:01 but if you just leave an ssh session connected, Apr 18 15:45:03 and idle Apr 18 15:45:16 its still going to send and receive data Apr 18 15:45:22 no Apr 18 15:45:33 maemo builder reject compilation with : undefined reference to `osName' someone have an idea ? (it compile fine under scratchbox ...) Apr 18 15:45:54 DocScrutinizer: are you talking about just idling? Apr 18 15:46:18 versus reading mail over ssh, or doing other useful stuff that people might normally use ssh for? Apr 18 15:46:37 in the N900 is there a way to list the apps installed in a read/use-able text-file format? Apr 18 15:46:53 jpinx: dpkg -l ? Apr 18 15:47:02 say im reading through my mail in ssh its got to send and receive packets (but not send that 3 second heartbeat) Apr 18 15:47:12 jpinx, dpkg -l "*" | grep ii | awk '{print $2}' Apr 18 15:47:16 StyXman: heh - that easy? :) Apr 18 15:47:20 with mosh im guessing it sends and receives about as much data (when doing the same task) plus the heartbeats Apr 18 15:47:43 Thanks Creteil :) Apr 18 15:47:44 jpinx, or just : dpkg -l "*" | grep ii Apr 18 15:47:51 for more infos ... Apr 18 15:47:51 i guess you feel those heartbeats will consume a non trivial amount of extra battery? Apr 18 15:48:06 (im honestly interested because i think the local echo thing is quite nice) Apr 18 15:48:41 Creteil: dpkg -l alone does the grep ii part :) Apr 18 15:48:59 HRH_H_Crab: I talk about those 30s you read output of last command before you start typing next command Apr 18 15:49:57 i dunno. i guess i can sort of see your point. Apr 18 15:50:24 StyXman: got it thanks :) Apr 18 15:50:30 i wont be convinced though until ive had a chance to play with it and see how it actually affects my battery life. Apr 18 15:51:00 HRH_H_Crab: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption#3.5G_data.2C_short_pings Apr 18 15:51:36 vs: >>3G connected, good signal, no data or other activity +8 mA.<< Apr 18 15:51:37 DocScrutinizer: well i tend to keep my phone in 2G mode. Apr 18 15:51:49 doesn't matter THAT much Apr 18 15:53:56 calling this thing a dedicated MOBILE shell is outright over the top Apr 18 15:54:55 yeah but thats just a catchy name. Apr 18 15:55:13 its more than likely a backronym! ;P Apr 18 15:55:26 "whats cool and ends with sh? metal is cool! mosh!" Apr 18 15:57:40 anyway: mosh over 3G: 3h standby,. mosh over 2G: 7h standby. My humble guess of best case figures you get Apr 18 15:58:00 *idle* Apr 18 15:58:22 mosh? Apr 18 15:58:46 mobile shell? Apr 18 15:58:47 http://mosh.mit.edu/ Apr 18 15:58:54 yep Apr 18 15:59:02 DocScrutinizer: im rarely more than 7 hours away from a charger! ;P Apr 18 15:59:21 if i was i might be forced to consider a different phone /o\ Apr 18 15:59:47 (because the battery in this one is no spring chicken) Apr 18 15:59:49 HRH_H_Crab: 'cause you're the lucky ones whose usb port is not borked :) Apr 18 15:59:54 yeah Apr 18 16:00:09 * StyXman has thre rotang batteries Apr 18 16:00:39 so mosh is client based right? Apr 18 16:00:48 so no mosh server? Apr 18 16:00:57 just reading... Apr 18 16:01:38 it invokes server via SSH Apr 18 16:01:42 ok Apr 18 16:01:45 got that Apr 18 16:02:05 then establishes own UDP connection on port 60...61000 Apr 18 16:02:24 where the NAT nightmare already starts Apr 18 16:02:29 heh Apr 18 16:02:59 chem|st: then sends a keepalive every 3 seconds Apr 18 16:03:05 :-S Apr 18 16:03:35 i would have said "are you alive?" more than "keepalive" Apr 18 16:03:48 $localprovider = NATdevils Apr 18 16:04:47 was wondering about SIP working on 3G... but it actually finds it's path Apr 18 16:05:19 I mean, what's the URL? MIT.EDU?? can't they come up with somthing with a little bit more common sense? Apr 18 16:05:50 hahah Apr 18 16:06:28 mit.gov? Apr 18 16:07:06 mit.we-think-we-are-elite.edu? Apr 18 16:07:43