**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 07 02:59:59 2012 May 07 09:06:56 MohammadAG: closed... but you do not really support something like whatsapp? May 07 09:12:49 lol the starting post is wonderful... May 07 09:14:14 "Whats different about whats app is that it allows >1 person to be involved in a conversation" thats just like apple claiming they brought videocalls to smartphones... May 07 09:16:07 chem|st: I may not support it but I certainly use it May 07 09:18:30 I read the Terms sometime ago... and if they didn't change nothing to use or even support for me May 07 09:34:09 hey guys May 07 09:34:31 i ssh my laptop,and i messed up my n900 terminal resolution May 07 09:34:32 lol May 07 09:34:45 the font looks to big May 07 09:34:50 how can i revert it back May 07 09:34:51 ? May 07 09:37:36 chem|st: Whats wrong with them? May 07 09:39:58 spark666, tried pressing the volume down button on the N900 whilst having X Terminal open? May 07 09:40:15 psycho_oreos: no i didnt :P let me try May 07 09:40:42 Short circuits in physics suck May 07 09:41:11 psycho_oreos: tnx man it works,didnt knew about that option May 07 09:41:23 heh nw May 07 09:42:13 and last night i had a error at boot,something like "malfuntion the device will shutdown in 10s" May 07 09:42:14 :-s May 07 09:42:48 im not sure if that were exactly the words but you get the idea May 07 09:43:45 there's no better solution than recalling what you did last that made the device prompt those words May 07 09:43:46 MohammadAG: on a S60 device it showed due payment will be required after 12month of usage May 07 09:44:02 it sounds like you're either messing with some of the upstart scripts or something May 07 09:44:12 psycho_oreos: messing a bit whit cssu features and a couple of reboots :P May 07 09:44:52 and i remeber before that,the power kernel didnt loaded proper May 07 09:44:56 MohammadAG: and it is the 1mth app using one and the same technology to do what? sending texts... May 07 09:45:07 spark666, heh well one of the CSSU things you did might have triggered it albeit rare but it is possible May 07 09:45:35 spark666, if power kernel didn't load properly, then that would usually cause bootloops or forced reboot imo May 07 09:45:39 but does it require a reflash ,or was a "once in a lifetinme problem"? May 07 09:46:02 no it works fine i didnt had that error again...yet :P May 07 09:46:07 now* May 07 09:47:50 its hard to say, though if its constantly showing up that error, then a reflash to boot is required May 07 09:48:17 it happened only once till now,i hope it wont happen again May 07 09:48:59 chem|st: Ok and? It's clear whatsapp is free for one year May 07 09:49:53 spark666: you shouldn't overclock or undervolt or use SmartReflex May 07 09:51:38 MohammadAG: nothing in life is for free May 07 09:51:55 Death is May 07 09:52:10 arguably not in life ;-P May 07 09:52:24 Or a blown tire to assist in that May 07 09:53:32 DocScrutinizer: http://twitter.com/MohammadAG/status/198301709427154944/photo/1 May 07 09:54:10 ohnoes, a twitter URL May 07 09:54:45 I should install a counter for time and traffic I wasted for showing that stupid bird an blank page May 07 09:55:14 FSCKU twitter May 07 09:55:43 hi May 07 09:55:46 whats series 40? May 07 09:56:04 something unrelated to topic of this channel anyway May 07 09:56:05 is n900 part of series 40s? May 07 09:56:10 no May 07 09:56:14 Symbian feature phone OS May 07 09:56:51 is it possible to develop with apis like nokia maps or location services on maemo? May 07 09:57:02 series 40 is not symbian May 07 09:58:15 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API May 07 09:58:57 ShadowJK: afaik it's branded as that May 07 09:59:35 Or not May 07 09:59:35 I challenge you to show it May 07 09:59:50 Challenge lost May 07 10:00:54 S30 is dumbphone Nokia os, S40 is feature/dumbphone nokia os, S60 is Symbian "smartphone" os May 07 10:01:39 for whatever metrics of smartphone May 07 10:02:12 Series 90 was called hildon? O_o May 07 10:02:12 well, I guess it still outsmarts winp7 May 07 10:03:13 MohammadAG: there's been an *awesome* story, if only I had bookmarked the link May 07 10:03:28 was s90 the touchphone thing they killed in 2002? May 07 10:03:38 DocScrutinizer: MohammadAG: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/21/nokia_hildon_the_great_lost_platform/ May 07 10:03:48 YES! this one May 07 10:04:03 thanks Kaadlajk May 07 10:04:10 ShadowJK: S60 is just the userinterface May 07 10:04:31 s40 is an ui with its own os May 07 10:05:53 so s40 is not smartphone? May 07 10:06:15 not exactly May 07 10:06:21 whats the difference between dumbphone and smartphone? May 07 10:06:29 and maemo is not s May 07 10:06:52 look at the names! ;-) May 07 10:07:27 generally you might say: dumbphones don't have apps to install May 07 10:08:09 btw it sems 'featurephone' is the accepted term May 07 10:09:03 ~dict smartphone May 07 10:09:05 could not find definition for smartphone May 07 10:09:11 bwahahaha May 07 10:09:19 topobot: s40 is a "feature phone" ui, capable of more than texting and calling, like JavaApps and other stuff, a smartphone is more likely somemore advanced as the name tells, nowadays dumbphones are any which do not count into smartphones May 07 10:09:21 ~wiki smartphone May 07 10:09:25 At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone (URL), Wikipedia explains: " A 'smartphone' is a mobile phone built on a mobile computing platform, with more advanced computing ability and connectivity than a feature phone.{{cite web |url=http://www.phonescoop.com/glossary/term.php?gid=131 |title=Smartphone |date= |publisher="Phone Scoop" |accessdate=2011-12-15}}{{cite web |url=http://www.phonescoop.com/glossary/term.php?gid=310 |title=Feature Phone |date= ... May 07 10:13:21 topobot: anyway, as it seems it needs to get mentioned, N900 is a mobile computing platform based on linux. Some even claim "N900 is NOT a phone" May 07 10:13:44 :O May 07 10:13:49 computer with a gsm chip May 07 10:14:17 why they dont still produce that kind of phones? May 07 10:14:27 mobile computing platforms May 07 10:14:49 YEAH WHY, NOKIA, WHY!!! May 07 10:15:21 ~nit May 07 10:15:22 methinks nit is Nokia Internet Tablet May 07 10:16:01 series of nit: 770, N800, N810, N900 May 07 10:16:15 N900 came with phone functions May 07 10:16:56 still it's tagged NIT May 07 10:17:23 Nokia obviously decided to discontinue NIT series May 07 10:18:19 the huge betrayal on community May 07 10:19:09 * DocScrutinizer doesn't want a friggin N9 "smartphone", wnats A NIT! May 07 10:19:28 *cough* N9 sux :P May 07 10:19:43 donkleyballs May 07 10:20:07 nit-pickers May 07 10:20:13 seriously .. i rather use my N900 May 07 10:20:13 hehe May 07 10:21:17 at least you should deliberately type N9 with lowercase n to signify its insignificance to legacy NIT series May 07 10:22:14 14n9 May 07 10:22:23 how's that ^ ? May 07 10:22:46 heh its also greyed out, you used colouring? :) May 07 10:22:57 1 meh May 07 10:25:02 * DocScrutinizer sets up a autocorrection regex s/[nN]9([^0-9])/14n9\1/ May 07 10:31:39 Awesome article May 07 10:34:02 MohammadAG: I especially liked that when I read the article couple of people passing by said that they worked on that Hildon device :-) May 07 10:37:06 DocScrutinizer: reading the whole article it sounds like elop is payed for shutting down nokia for good ^^ May 07 10:37:20 definitely May 07 10:37:25 always been clear May 07 10:37:40 and he did a good job so far May 07 10:38:03 some psion executive with a lot of money getting revenge^^ May 07 10:38:38 or alike May 07 10:38:44 I liked the part where they worried about the competition not being able to catch uo May 07 10:38:46 Up May 07 10:39:27 Kaadlajk: Oh, you're a Nokian? May 07 10:39:43 MohammadAG: nope, I was a subcontractor May 07 10:39:43 they coud have killed of iphones in the year revealed but feared change... May 07 10:40:09 they coud have killed of iphones in the year revealed but feared change... May 07 10:40:59 Indeed May 07 10:41:12 Nokia needs new management May 07 10:42:22 and a driving marketing campaign for n950s and n9s, and successors for both in 2012Q4 May 07 10:42:28 Also, I need to start on my hooking platform today May 07 10:42:56 But I can't figure out where hildon does the ecec May 07 10:43:04 Exec* May 07 10:44:01 The N9 was dead before it was announced May 07 10:44:20 Nokia needs Maemo 7, even if it's just harmattan May 07 10:45:34 Release a quad core 2GB RAM device with that, do marketing wisely, get companies developing for the platform May 07 10:45:48 And you've gained your spot again May 07 10:46:19 couldnt agree more May 07 10:46:22 I know the specs aren't needed, but apparently people are buying according to what's on paper May 07 10:47:08 FYI this could be done without Nokia May 07 10:47:20 haha May 07 10:47:22 yeah May 07 10:47:31 But the getting developers working on the platform would be impossible May 07 10:47:31 see gta04.org May 07 10:47:40 Commercial developers* May 07 10:47:50 yup May 07 10:47:54 not only that May 07 10:48:10 Mass production May 07 10:48:52 the drama in all that: Nokia itself has no more competence for doing it, they fired all those who were capable to pull such thing May 07 10:49:18 They can help themselves back DocScrutinizer May 07 10:49:30 You can rehire people May 07 10:49:38 not easy May 07 10:49:48 The main problem is if they failed this plan May 07 10:49:58 They're gone, for good May 07 10:50:07 bah May 07 10:50:17 it's still a little niche thing May 07 10:50:29 What is? May 07 10:50:35 in metrics of Nokia capitalization May 07 10:51:03 Nokia's as close to being dead as anyone can be May 07 10:51:07 they literally have billions on their coffe cash May 07 10:51:23 The only thing keeping them alive is licensing May 07 10:51:31 nope, not really May 07 10:51:45 Well it's not WP7 for sure May 07 10:51:54 they can fast for years and still are alive May 07 10:52:11 billions! 10^9 May 07 10:52:19 Then they can get themselves back where they were May 07 10:52:20 EUR, not yen or lira May 07 10:52:36 Problem is firing elop is bad now May 07 10:52:58 Market-wise, stocks and stockholders would suffer May 07 10:53:19 meh, impossible to suffer more May 07 10:53:22 And with elop, that Maemo 7 device won't happen May 07 10:55:15 no matter Evilop or not, n9 / meego been a change in paradigm away from NIT towards "dumb smartphone" that basically killed the whole thing for me and some other people May 07 10:56:13 DocScrutinizer: Not really, the UI is attractive, have that on a renewed maemo 5 base and its an instant win May 07 10:56:16 DocScrutinizer: thing is, everybody seems to be going that way May 07 10:56:23 no keyboard May 07 10:56:24 Exactly May 07 10:56:26 just touchscreen May 07 10:56:35 FSCKIT May 07 10:56:42 only samsung tried something different by adding s pen to note May 07 10:56:47 You can't fsck it May 07 10:56:59 RIM announced new smartphones without keyboard May 07 10:57:04 * dhbiker buys used N900 and freezes it for the future May 07 10:57:13 apple inspired that idea, and if apple did it right (which they did), they've `revolutionalised' the market May 07 10:57:29 well, hw keyboard takes up a lot of space May 07 10:57:39 dhbiker: hehe, exactly what I'm just doing May 07 10:57:42 xD May 07 10:57:44 which could be observed on n900 May 07 10:58:01 N950 has keyboard too... and its not that extra big May 07 10:58:02 it's size is about the same as size of a brick May 07 10:58:11 compared to N950? May 07 10:58:12 and even it's the same shape May 07 10:58:15 jacekowski: The N900 could be much thinner with today's specs May 07 10:58:19 and what about e7? May 07 10:58:28 jacekowski: no, the other way round it's a true statement: vkbd uses a lot of screen space May 07 10:58:41 DocScrutinizer: WORD! May 07 10:58:45 well n950 is n900 on steroids May 07 10:58:56 True, but that's up to UI developers to fix May 07 10:58:57 * dhbiker wishes he had one May 07 10:59:05 and you *can* brick vkbd. I've done that before with n9 and because I have phone lock and no physical keyboard, I was literally screwed May 07 10:59:21 I'm on an iPhone and the keyboard showing never annoyed me May 07 10:59:29 MohammadAG: traitor May 07 10:59:37 MohammadAG: leave the channel May 07 10:59:41 jacekowski: damn you... i wanted to write that :( May 07 10:59:47 Whereas on MeeGo and android, I had to close the keyboard to see sth behind it May 07 11:00:01 PLUS I *hate* the fingerprints all over the screen May 07 11:00:07 and don't forget, with vkbd, its entirely up to developers to implement whatever feature they want in the vkbd. You can write a program that prevents users from Copying and Pasting things for instance because there's no functionality implemented in hardware May 07 11:00:33 well, you can't copy and paste in hw keyboard May 07 11:00:39 unless it's implemented in software May 07 11:01:05 you can capture ctrl and prevent cp too :p May 07 11:01:07 not necessarily, as long as the base UI allows such functionalities to exist May 07 11:01:28 iOS implements copy paste on a library basis May 07 11:01:39 or well yeah that with hardware keyboard but not all developers would take extra notes in preventing copying and pasting from happening May 07 11:01:43 yeah, but iOS sucks May 07 11:01:49 So unless you design a new UI toolkit, you can't prevent cp May 07 11:02:02 you don't have to look far in n9's shitty browser to see that you can't copy and paste shit inside May 07 11:02:05 jacekowski: I dare to say its better than android May 07 11:02:24 MohammadAG: I *once* tried texting an SMS on a friend's iPhone. Almost killed the thing, it only survived because it's been a new gadget of my friend and I couldn't decide between smashing it into the wall or rather stomping at it May 07 11:02:26 who brainwashed you? May 07 11:02:47 Why? May 07 11:02:51 DocScrutinizer: well, swype on my android is OKish May 07 11:02:57 MohammadAG: nothing by apple is OK May 07 11:03:03 MohammadAG: all things apple suck May 07 11:03:10 MohammadAG: you should remember that May 07 11:03:16 MohammadAG: you are using whatsapp on an iPhone... selfexplanatory May 07 11:03:21 Things change jacekowski May 07 11:03:34 There are no alternatives May 07 11:03:49 hmm, i have to go now May 07 11:03:51 even though you have N950 -._ May 07 11:03:55 -.- May 07 11:04:00 I still use that May 07 11:04:10 And still devel for that May 07 11:04:24 But I need either an iOS or android device for some apps May 07 11:04:34 And I find ios way better than android May 07 11:04:40 and you chose iOS May 07 11:04:43 indeed ._. May 07 11:04:46 Yes May 07 11:04:49 "multitasking" May 07 11:04:50 Why? May 07 11:05:07 jacekowski: A jailbroken iOS device is different from a stock one May 07 11:05:09 you have to use itunes to manage May 07 11:05:14 to manage it* May 07 11:05:25 There are tweaks for that May 07 11:05:26 i could live with all iOS problems May 07 11:05:28 but itunes May 07 11:05:32 I can go without iTunes for a month May 07 11:05:41 worst piece of shitware you can think of May 07 11:05:50 didn't you have to activate iphone with itunes before you can use it? May 07 11:05:53 Or more, PwnTunes can import my songs into the stock iPod app May 07 11:05:59 No, iOS 5 May 07 11:06:29 You don't need iTunes for first start now May 07 11:06:29 itunes even supports FLAC ? May 07 11:06:41 No, ALAC May 07 11:06:46 meh.. lame May 07 11:06:52 Apple Lossless May 07 11:07:00 yeah i know whats ALAC May 07 11:07:09 You can convert between flac and ALAC without any loss of quality May 07 11:07:23 While I would prefer flac tbh, but meh May 07 11:07:34 and converting ALAC to something else once you lost your original copy of FLAC format? May 07 11:07:36 would you mind to stop iTalking? I vomitted already May 07 11:08:01 psycho_oreos: Same as converting flac to something else May 07 11:08:05 Both are lossless May 07 11:08:14 * psycho_oreos would so laugh if ALAC is that one way SCMS setup that Sory did awhile ago with their netMD stint and OMG format May 07 11:08:21 chem|st: nice... enjoy vomitting more :P May 07 11:08:23 chem|st: ++ May 07 11:08:26 Both are open source May 07 11:09:07 but of different licensing schemes May 07 11:09:19 On the subject of ios vs android, I'm surprised everyone likes android more here May 07 11:09:25 psycho_oreos: Apache May 07 11:09:27 i dont May 07 11:09:37 android is meh May 07 11:09:38 fsck andridiot May 07 11:09:50 haha May 07 11:10:11 I'd prefer android over iOS anyday but if android wasn't around then I'd prefer iOS over WP May 07 11:10:21 I find jailbreaking a universal iOS version better than continuously looking for roms May 07 11:10:43 psycho_oreos: I mainly prefer one thing May 07 11:10:53 All iOS devices get all releases at once May 07 11:10:55 either I want a proper OS - I go with maemo5. OR I want a consumer-grade device where I have to trade my brain in for geekness - then I'd use iOS. May 07 11:11:12 Everyone around the globe can upgrade to ios 5 at one point May 07 11:11:21 Whereas ics is still not out for most devices May 07 11:11:23 psycho_oreos: I prefer using a dumbphone over any of those 3 and have my netbook glued to my bag again May 07 11:11:36 And even for the ones that have ics, upgrading is a pain May 07 11:11:59 DocScrutinizer: ++ May 07 11:12:15 MohammadAG, and they force iOS 4 down people's gullet like they did with their iphone 3G and iphone 3GS users.. and don't forget to block out the excessive noise that iphone owners cringe at their now slow ass performing iphone May 07 11:12:21 descent usage and $* power tweaks I get 2 days out of my netbook May 07 11:12:57 psycho_oreos: You can stay on an older version May 07 11:13:01 chem|st, meh extra luggage.. I hate extra luggage when I've got a proper laptop to boot with (though ancient and I'd rather lug around a newer laptop) May 07 11:13:12 Saving SHSHs is better than looking for a good rom May 07 11:13:31 MohammadAG, apparently that wasn't the case with iphone 3G and iphone 3GS owners having to face the *forced* update May 07 11:13:49 iTunes forces you, you can skip that May 07 11:14:00 and for "eeeew ma gaad, I neeeed an iPhone because this acme app is not available for anything else" PAH! Either this friggin acme app is available for normal desktop PC then I can run it on N900 as well (given the kind of apps we're discussing here) - or it's a BS app that actually is not available for anything but iPhone then it's not worth bothering May 07 11:14:28 DocScrutinizer: Sometimes you need some apps May 07 11:14:28 and don't forget, whilst apple may highly discourage the use of jailbreaking. It does not necessarily mean that they won't implement anti-jail breaking techniques as they've already filed numerous patents almost a year ago May 07 11:14:39 no I don't May 07 11:14:46 Like the app to access my bank account May 07 11:14:53 psycho_oreos: I had my netbook with me in my bag before I bought a n900, charging it in the same frequency I charge my n900 now... May 07 11:14:53 Like waze, before it May 07 11:14:57 Was ported May 07 11:15:21 if your bank requires their customers to buy an iPhone to manage their account... :-x May 07 11:15:32 having it as mp3player is fail for sure, but just because of the size... May 07 11:15:45 They don't, mostly everyone has an iPhone or an android device May 07 11:16:02 I havent seen an N900 for about a year May 07 11:16:20 *I* do my bank account management via https://meine.deutsche-bank.de May 07 11:16:32 chem|st, its still extra luggage to me at the end of the day.. had there been a decent N900 successor (and not the ill fated N950 which was only destined to developers with crippling hardware handicaps) there would've probably been a redundant necessity in one having a netbook for that instance imo May 07 11:16:36 MohammadAG: I wouldn't trust apple in any terms of security... OSx saves clear-text-passwords next to the secured files... May 07 11:16:39 no matter if on PC or N900 May 07 11:17:03 psycho_oreos: true ;) May 07 11:17:04 chem|st: the n900 did the same at some point May 07 11:17:29 Probably android too May 07 11:17:56 psycho_oreos: I am waiting for nokia cutting elops testicles and announcing reopening maemo devel May 07 11:18:25 Keep on waiting May 07 11:18:32 That won't happen May 07 11:18:39 chem|st, I'd say chances of that happening is zilch at this rate.. and before nokia will release anything useful before its death, it'll probably be a shitty ass dumbphone with limited capabilities May 07 11:18:54 I don't see Nokia getting back on track in less than a year May 07 11:18:56 psycho_oreos: it started with reopening device seeding for Qt two weeks ago... qt is only needed for symbian and maemo/meego... May 07 11:19:20 And bb May 07 11:19:26 sry reopening qt devel with device seeding... that way around May 07 11:19:37 (device seeding?) May 07 11:19:51 (yeah, what?) May 07 11:19:58 what is device seeding? May 07 11:20:07 adding support for new devices? May 07 11:20:20 Giving devices to devels May 07 11:20:23 flux: there will be some more n950s and n9s for developers May 07 11:20:25 chem|st, and all three of those platforms that you've mentioned are none other than sinking platforms. symbian is going to get decapitated, maemo/meego faces death via stoning and mockery.. any takers? maybe wp? May 07 11:20:28 oh, they're doing that now again May 07 11:20:37 interesting. May 07 11:20:39 N950s? You sure? May 07 11:21:04 didn't they also hand out that lovely *cough* lumia to devels? May 07 11:21:08 flux: yeah, quim gil is back and started seeding questions on the maemo list May 07 11:21:16 Developing for the N9/50 isn't as fun as it was for the N900 May 07 11:21:49 not to mention neither the developers nor the end users were standing on the same base as it was with N900 May 07 11:21:51 psycho_oreos: That was a gift May 07 11:22:03 MohammadAG, a gift? lol May 07 11:22:12 That's what the site said May 07 11:22:21 I can sell it, legally May 07 11:22:38 a friend decided not to start using such a lumia due to the EULA May 07 11:22:52 apparently multiple screens before you get to use the device. May 07 11:22:58 MohammadAG: some requested more '50s instead of n9s for community prizes after he asked about how to choose devels for seeding May 07 11:22:59 yup May 07 11:23:12 * psycho_oreos imagines people can soon smell the rotting carcass of lumia in a few months time May 07 11:23:14 psycho_oreos: Btw May 07 11:23:29 Developing for the N900, I felt like people were interested May 07 11:23:48 are... still are! May 07 11:24:05 I released a beta for sociality, and the only feedback I got was someone complaining something broke his stock facebook app May 07 11:24:07 HARM is a brainkiller May 07 11:24:16 actually paegis is May 07 11:24:25 and qtm May 07 11:24:28 It was overclocking, and I spent a page saying ocing is bad and being convinced its not May 07 11:24:38 MohammadAG, its a different atmosphere back then.. but with harmattan, its not so much the case that the end users and developers are on the exact same level of playing field. Which is ludicrous May 07 11:24:38 MohammadAG: not true as several people in here replied with "awesome first shot" May 07 11:24:58 So basically, I didnt get any feedback on the app itself, except from a couple of users May 07 11:25:17 chem|st: Where? May 07 11:25:21 in here May 07 11:25:39 Can you point me to logs, I wasn't around here back then May 07 11:25:58 cannot remember if I said anything about but I remember someone atleast telling "cool" May 07 11:26:04 psycho_oreos: That's another thing, the lack of a proper distribution method sucks May 07 11:26:24 Appsformeego is close to a store May 07 11:26:28 could we move it to #harmattan maybe? May 07 11:26:28 MohammadAG: I had a look myself and it looked promising! May 07 11:26:35 And Nokia store is that May 07 11:28:39 DocScrutinizer: he posted on the maemo list as he wants the good old maemo community May 07 11:29:15 pretty obviously Nokia planned to earn their money with their OVI/whatever flavour of appstore rather than by selling cool hardware. That's what HARM is all about, from aegis over qtm pseudo-dalvik, to braindead missing repositories for devels May 07 11:29:38 they even stated exactly that being their plans for the future, some time back May 07 11:29:52 didn't pan out, obviously May 07 11:30:31 so now they abandoned own ship and hope for a safe passage in some yet to be founded win/M$-ecosystem May 07 11:35:11 That's also part our problem May 07 11:36:03 There's no repo, make one May 07 11:36:11 Then make an app manager May 07 11:37:53 hmm, Nokia changed from "we don't need that so we don't support/ship it with maemo5" to "we don't need that so we don't allow it on meego paegis" May 07 11:38:32 I prefer the maemo5 paradigm May 07 11:38:43 Aegis allows an app manager May 07 11:41:28 There's fapman, it just needs a UI May 07 11:42:13 yayaya, HARM even allows openmode May 07 11:42:16 haha May 07 11:42:28 aegis apparently can be defeated easitly May 07 11:42:30 easily May 07 11:42:38 because they use regexps to parse xml May 07 11:42:43 That's not the point May 07 11:43:05 For harmattan to have the same community the n900 had we need repos May 07 11:43:20 pff May 07 11:43:51 For repos to work we need an appmanager May 07 11:43:52 you'd need developers that are brainwashed enough to use a DOA OS to develop on it May 07 11:44:00 a hostile OS even May 07 11:44:57 lol May 07 11:45:02 he has a point May 07 11:45:14 True May 07 11:45:42 or you can use the old kernel for hw compatibility and make simething new May 07 11:45:55 I was somewhat sympathetic about HARM - even when neither UI nor hw had any appeal for me - until Evilop announced it will definitely not see any successor May 07 11:45:59 backported to the.functional maemo kernel and make a new repo May 07 11:46:33 evilop's wp7 phone is awesome ;) May 07 11:47:49 i never understood what prevented the n900 community from taking the backport route May 07 11:48:02 uh? May 07 11:48:07 backport what? May 07 11:48:10 mer had a good idea... was it the lack of modem functionality May 07 11:48:15 fsckng swipe UI? May 07 11:48:17 to make a new os May 07 11:48:24 or new ui May 07 11:48:31 and restructure the base May 07 11:48:40 so it wasnt a dead os May 07 11:49:00 nfc what you're talking about May 07 11:49:25 DocScrutinizer: lumia fanatic %~) May 07 11:49:57 chem|st: yeah.. im sorry.. must be the functional phone talking May 07 11:50:02 :) May 07 11:50:16 Macer: pls not again May 07 11:51:04 N900 has the most excellent voice call quality of any phone I ever used, both on GSM and SIP May 07 11:51:46 a thing I heard isn't normal for N9 nor hooker May 07 11:52:13 nor C7 btw May 07 11:52:35 or whatsitcalled May 07 12:00:12 who uses voice anymore? ;) May 07 12:01:00 Siri May 07 12:01:13 MohammadAG: touche May 07 12:02:16 é* May 07 12:18:43 maemo May 07 12:19:27 help is meego fully fxnal on N900? May 07 12:19:37 no May 07 12:19:52 wots d drawback? May 07 12:26:25 hmm.. south africa :/ May 07 12:27:17 ah, no May 07 13:35:30 DocScrutinizer: Another thing about harmattan, Fremantle times irc was very helpful, now it's quiet May 07 13:36:16 :/ May 07 13:37:17 No really, I don't see answers for lots of people's questions on #harmattan May 07 13:37:17 hmm May 07 13:38:09 Whereas Fremantle times I learned development through answers on irc May 07 13:38:16 Oh and hey timeless May 07 13:38:31 timeless: ?? heya! May 07 13:38:53 hey also timeless. May 07 13:39:00 Yeah, autocomplete showed his nick when I typed time :p May 07 14:00:40 btw: (OT) gta04 eventually with kbd: http://youtu.be/WM94%5fR5eKcc May 07 14:00:54 :) May 07 14:07:51 * DocScrutinizer puts his N900 into holster, waves and heads out May 07 14:10:58 * Sicelo wishes he could get CP-408 May 07 14:10:59 :/ May 07 14:19:43 Sicelo: Is that a gun? May 07 14:31:11 lol ltltoutltclaet. May 07 14:31:26 Nokia CP-408 May 07 14:32:52 Nokia now is building guns? May 07 14:34:00 you never know. toilet paper started the whole thing, maybe guns will put it all to rest May 07 14:34:48 anyway, CP-408 is that in-situ carrying case for N900 May 07 14:35:07 bad reviews generally.. but i kinda like it May 07 14:43:11 How to let n900 access(read/write) pc disk? May 07 15:06:19 LaoLang_cool: What are you trying to do? May 07 15:23:20 hi MohammadAG , DocScrutinizer51 , SpeedEvil May 07 15:23:28 o/ May 07 15:23:30 yes, i was actually in SFO last weekend May 07 15:23:45 i just flew back to Toronto yesterday around noon SFO time May 07 15:26:27 * timeless got a letter in the mail stating Finland does not have a criminal record for timeless May 07 15:26:42 unfortunately, it also came w/ an invoice... due... tomorrow May 07 15:36:09 If you don't pay, do they update it, and send you another one saying you do? May 07 15:38:24 they increase the amount due May 07 15:38:35 and, probably eventually, i suppose May 07 15:38:44 but, they probably don't send out the new record May 07 15:38:52 ... just what a new record would say May 07 15:38:54 * timeless shrugs May 07 15:59:06 X-Fade, ping May 07 15:59:11 was the libaux6 package removed May 07 19:04:08 chromium isnt in repos? May 07 19:48:23 If I'm planning to dual-boot Maemo/MeeGo on my N900, is it okay to rock power-kernel and U-Boot together, or should I stick with the stock kernel and U-Boot? May 07 19:59:30 cuppsy: it works just fine May 07 19:59:35 though you have todo it yourself May 07 20:19:28 Hello, I have forced rotation enabled in CSSU testing, but screen only rotates in browser, desktop and phone. I installed Theme Customizer yesterday and chose its custom transitions, so I think transitions.ini is used from theme folder. How can I use fast transitions from Theme Customizer but still get apps to rotate? May 07 20:22:37 cuppsy: aiui pali supports uBoot+stock-kernel May 07 20:23:39 cuppsy: nevertheless you of course can set up PK and meego as two alternative boot configs, while sticking with stock+uboot May 07 20:24:45 I think uboot and PK both *urgently* need a good comprehensive howro wikipage May 07 20:24:59 howto even May 07 20:25:30 DocScrutinizer51 I wrote kind of a little howto after I got it working: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83993 May 07 20:25:54 pali obviously has a few problems with english not being his native language (no offense, pali) May 07 20:26:07 would like some feedback on it anyway May 07 20:26:44 well, I'll see if I can find time to look at it. Thanks bennypr0fane May 07 20:27:04 I put it together after reading both UBoot and pk50 threads adn getting some instructions from Pali here May 07 20:27:47 so if I overlooked anything or got something wrong, please comment May 07 20:33:16 jacekowski: you looked into NOLO, no? Would you know or be able to look up whether NOLO does *anything* to mtd4: (00200000) ((initfs))? May 07 20:34:51 Blinked out for a bit. Thanks to both of you for the responses. Gonna read that link now. May 07 21:01:38 DocScrutinizer: are you looking for anything specific May 07 21:13:01 jacekowski: yep, I want to know if NOLO tries to boot a initrd May 07 21:14:44 since IF this was the case, that would be an extremely cute way to splice in uBoot May 07 21:16:17 as we see /dev/mtd4 still around, I would guess the code putting this partition to purpose also still exists in NOLO May 07 21:17:25 or maybe it's always been like kernel=mtd2 rootfs=mtd4 ? May 07 21:17:57 ...to make kernel boot with initrd rather than standard rootfs? May 07 21:18:15 this would kinda defeat the idea May 07 21:18:56 NFC how maemo4 handled this May 07 21:19:22 ShadowJK: any hints from your side? May 07 21:20:57 nfi May 07 21:21:10 thanks anyway May 07 21:21:37 I thought uboot idea was to put uboot where kernel is, and kernel on.. emmc?? no idea May 07 21:22:06 nah, the 'main' kernel is co-existing with uBoot in mtd2 May 07 21:23:04 which makes sense for flasher --flash-only=rootfs May 07 21:24:23 DocScrutinizer, afaik mtd4 is unused at all May 07 21:24:24 ShadowJK: so the idea actually been to push kernel a few bytes back, and place uBoot where kernel _started_ May 07 21:24:33 whether NOLO tries to do anything with it is something else May 07 21:24:36 MohammadAG: yes, it is unused May 07 21:24:57 that'S the intriguing thing about mtd4 May 07 21:25:09 string NOLO? May 07 21:25:38 won't fly, the addr of mtd are hardcoded to NOLO, flasher, kernel May 07 21:26:04 so NOLO has some reference to mtd4 for sure May 07 21:26:31 hmm, stringing mtd0 showed cam_launch May 07 21:26:51 there's a lot of funny stuff in there May 07 21:27:22 I even suspected they got some hidden 'shell' in NOLO, like uBoot console May 07 21:27:46 Waiting for the kernel to magically appear May 07 21:27:47 Press any key to cancel May 07 21:27:47 Yup, there it is. Stand by for some Linux pleasure. May 07 21:28:05 tornado May 07 21:28:05 blizzard May 07 21:28:07 lol the fuck May 07 21:28:18 yeah, toldya May 07 21:28:37 I had a fun 60 min reading all this lexems May 07 21:28:46 these* May 07 21:28:58 wp-test2 <-- see, the N900 was planned with WP May 07 21:29:07 LOL May 07 21:32:37 all those H!F*F and @FIF"F and H)F2F drive me nuts May 07 21:34:47 strings -n 6 /dev/mtd0|less '+/BOOT_MEDIAX' May 07 21:36:10 doesn't "nolo>" look like a shell prompt? May 07 21:36:58 Hi May 07 21:37:21 >> May 07 21:37:24 Type 'help'. May 07 21:37:26 Command requires an argument. May 07 21:37:27 Print help May 07 21:37:29 << May 07 21:37:36 serila console May 07 21:38:24 Test failed, press any key to continue. May 07 21:39:16 obviously "help", "memtest" and "membench" are some valid commands May 07 21:42:02 May I know what you are digging in NOLO? May 07 21:42:04 wp == "write protected" May 07 21:44:59 umm, I guess those are all valid bootreasons: >> swdg_to sec_vio 32wd_to pwr_key charger sw_rst rtc_alarm hw_bug<< May 07 21:46:35 DocScrutinizer: tbh i thought it's initrd that's stored there May 07 21:46:53 gimme a sec May 07 21:47:04 jacekowski: mtd4? sure, just that it isn't May 07 21:47:23 so it's empty now? May 07 21:47:26 been like that on maemo4 May 07 21:47:29 yep May 07 21:47:31 unused May 07 21:47:55 maemo5 has no initrd any more May 07 21:48:01 aiui May 07 21:48:48 >>OneNAND blocks unlocked in %d us<< May 07 21:48:52 :-D May 07 21:50:05 hmmpf, I almost forgot that one: >>usb_host_mode<< May 07 21:50:43 well, flasher can do initfs May 07 21:50:57 and i thought there is something in fiasco image May 07 21:55:34 LOL: May 07 21:55:37 Panel ID: %02x%02x%02x May 07 21:55:38 acx565akm May 07 21:55:40 lph8923 May 07 21:55:41 ls041y3 May 07 21:55:43 l4f00311 May 07 21:55:44 Unknown panel ID May 07 21:55:46 moscow May 07 21:57:47 DocScrutinizer, remember I was about to buy that new digitizer in germany? May 07 21:57:58 yup May 07 21:58:46 It turned out to be fake, but I could send it back and might get a original one May 07 21:59:30 further valid commands: "nandbench" "nandscan" May 07 21:59:57 dang, fake? how so? May 07 22:00:18 China stuff, as I call it May 07 22:00:42 anyone here in Finland and use Sampo? May 07 22:00:46 No serial number May 07 22:00:51 No earpiece May 07 22:00:56 * timeless is trying to use web banking to pay a bill to a Nordea account May 07 22:01:01 no magnet for keyboard sensor May 07 22:01:25 No lens for Notification-LED May 07 22:01:43 Looks really ugly btw :P May 07 22:01:55 >> May 07 22:01:58 Usage: May 07 22:01:59 dump: gpio dump [all] May 07 22:02:01 set: gpio [1|0] May 07 22:02:02 read: gpio May 07 22:02:04 set as input: gpio i May 07 22:02:05 output May 07 22:02:07 << May 07 22:03:04 Anyway, the company was really sorry so I still might get an original Nokia Digitizer May 07 22:03:39 Instead of a fixed screen, I still have to wait... May 07 22:06:34 Btw the "hole" is getting bigger and bigger :P May 07 22:11:42 >>Erasing certificate '%s'< >Certificate '%s' written<< May 07 22:11:59 heho May 07 22:12:10 WTF?! >>Image already contains an R&D certificate, not overwriting<< May 07 22:12:41 hey cehteh May 07 22:12:52 time for a new n900 battery here, has anyone experience with http://www.amazon.de/XpressMusic-ersetzt-original-cellePhone-ScreenCleaner/dp/B004M4H5WQ/ref=sr_1_3 ? May 07 22:12:56 hey DocScrutinizer :) May 07 22:13:00 hi doc May 07 22:13:45 errrr >>PA_ROT13<< May 07 22:13:54 ~rot13 haha May 07 22:13:54 unun May 07 22:15:49 * timeless manages to pay police department May 07 22:15:51 * timeless sighs May 07 22:15:58 * timeless needs to send a lot of money to finland :( May 07 22:16:40 cehteh: probably the battery is just good enough - I'd be careful with the screen cleaner though ;-P May 07 22:17:36 cehteh: I prefer 2nd hand batteries original Nokia BL-5j, from 2nd-handy shop etc May 07 22:17:51 whatever is next corner of your flat May 07 22:17:55 there are so many fakes on amazon that you cant tell which ones are original, so i think its prolly better to buy a fake with its own brand, at least they have some little reputation to loose May 07 22:18:13 yes i once tried that, but was not good May 07 22:18:31 so you go and swap it for a good one May 07 22:18:55 I usuallly pay 5..10EUR for a battery "with waranty" May 07 22:19:19 well i started model hely flying .. prolly i find somone who has a charger which can measure the real capacity May 07 22:19:40 and since you have the selling dude in hit distance.... May 07 22:19:52 i mean if 1400 is printed on it then it would be fine if it reaches 1200 .. May 07 22:20:02 but some fakes barely reach 700mah May 07 22:20:03 ure May 07 22:20:06 sure* May 07 22:20:28 you know your N900 has a pretty good battery meter? May 07 22:20:56 no need to find somebody with a external charger May 07 22:21:01 Isn't the battery meater kalibrated for the N900 battery? May 07 22:21:02 Tell me? Just lshal | grep battery May 07 22:21:13 ? May 07 22:22:31 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/ May 07 22:22:54 ltltoutltclaet: nope May 07 22:23:05 yes the good meter isnt used by default May 07 22:23:27 but i thought the resistor in the battery offsets the capacity May 07 22:23:49 err no May 07 22:24:15 well, it offsets hal's idea of battery's design capacity May 07 22:24:43 yes thats what i meant, nokia borked it May 07 22:24:53 now nokia is b0rken May 07 22:25:34 wrt BSI Nokia just failed to clearly specify what it's meant to do May 07 22:26:54 obviously there's been a semantics change in BSI, from battery temperature meter to battery size indicator May 07 22:27:58 ok i just order that battery .. lets see what a first charge then reads, if its <1200mah i send it back May 07 22:28:42 you'll need to do a charge-discharge-charge cycle to get any reasonable values May 07 22:29:18 yes i know, meant that with 'first charge' should saied 'complete charge' :) May 07 22:29:30 I suggest bq27200.sh 10 >batterytest.log for that May 07 22:29:32 actually batteries improve a bit on the first 2-3 charges May 07 22:30:17 but if announced at 1400 then 1200 should be it on a first complete charge anyways .. and this doesnt even test how well it behaves after many cycles May 07 22:30:24 maybe bq27200.sh 10 | tee batterytest.log May 07 22:30:34 but lithium batterys dont need that format process afaik May 07 22:31:05 well, cehteh is right about the first 2..3 cycles. May 07 22:31:11 spark666: they do May 07 22:31:16 and improvement is marginal May 07 22:31:24 not that much than older batteries but noticeable May 07 22:31:38 okey then May 07 22:32:33 while on a mobile its certaily below the noise .. but i can tell from RC-Helicopter you notice it quite much May 07 22:33:14 yeah, for discharge @ 10C it's probably a lot more May 07 22:33:32 and more reliable discharge May 07 22:34:08 for such usecases I'd actually "run in" May 07 22:34:39 LiIon might suffer @10C during the run-in period May 07 22:35:03 (well, some suffer @0.5C, any time) May 07 22:35:16 this is lipo May 07 22:35:56 no, seriously, the impedance reduces quite noticably during first charge cycles, and shouldn't get ignored May 07 22:36:17 well and RC batteries are certainly designed differently :) .. high C (actually 25C-50C discharge) May 07 22:36:27 yup May 07 22:36:39 allowing 5C charge but thats no good May 07 22:37:19 I've seen a weird cell specified for charging @2C but discharge only @0.5C May 07 22:37:21 * cehteh charging with less than 1C because of the flimsy charger :) May 07 22:37:39 sure that wasnt a gold-cap? :) May 07 22:37:44 yes May 07 22:37:46 hehe May 07 22:37:48 ;-) May 07 22:38:30 i remember there where some things researched which are somewhere inbetween caps and batteries May 07 22:39:16 and there are certainly some uses for that (hey mobile phones with fast charging!) May 07 22:39:20 laptops May 07 22:39:48 this however was a plain old Li cell May 07 22:40:02 1400 or sth May 07 22:40:03 i'd like if i can charge my laptop in 15 minutes and have 6+hours runtime May 07 22:56:31 cehteh: fuel cells May 07 23:26:18 cehteh; i have good experience with japod bl5j from dealextreme, but comments suggest quality has declined lately May 07 23:27:11 also the bl5j from eastmaze are nice May 07 23:27:20 ShadowJK: i want something i can get easily in germany May 07 23:28:41 i think with rc helis your 2nd and 3rd flight have more power as you'vw warmed up battery on first flight, and chemistry works faster when it's warm :) May 07 23:29:55 ShadowJK: those are better than genuine nokia? May 07 23:30:25 ya May 07 23:30:30 ShadowJK: certainly not .. using and charging is hours to days apart :) May 07 23:31:01 r00t|home; atleast first 100 cycles or so May 07 23:31:34 but yes, some people have heated battery cases for RC LiPo's :) May 07 23:32:13 original nokias I've used reached a "I should replace it" point after 150 cycles, but I didn't replace it to investogate how bad and quickly it degrades. at 300 cycles the phone broke, however. Was at 1000-1100 mAh remaining. May 07 23:32:43 you're not pushing 1 cycle/day like me? ;) May 07 23:33:10 i am still on my first now almost 2yrs old nokia battery (most of the time the phone is plugged into some power supply) May 07 23:33:44 in past weeks it really degraded, and i want a working battery over summertime when i am more outside May 07 23:34:20 now it shows half full after few hours laying in the backpack . .and then suddenly jumps to empty May 07 23:34:47 i ebay'd myself a bunch of (almost) new nokia bl5j, because i sometimes use up more than one per day May 07 23:35:01 no idea if that's maybe caused by the being old, but works for me May 07 23:36:04 i have my bicycle ree-charge, that works more or less well (except few glitches when it stop charging) May 07 23:36:24 but the battery indicator still works somewhat acurately for all of them, actually i still have an hour or a half left at 0% May 07 23:36:31 better than changing batteries anyways .. i dont like to open the otterbox May 07 23:37:15 http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/reecharge-power-pack i think i posted that last year already :) May 07 23:37:46 needs a slight 'shorten D+ D- Mod' to work with the N900 May 07 23:38:28 how long of a ride does it take to charge up that thing? May 07 23:40:07 dunno i keep it charged and it only drains when i an very slow (steep hills) or i emergency charge my n900 when not riding May 07 23:40:29 and rarely i charge it at home with the ac adaptor May 07 23:41:05 for normal riding i never got it empty, even with gps, monav and display always on May 08 00:04:16 wow May 08 00:04:19 http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/news/blogs/sideshow/south-korea-seizes-capsules-containing-powdered-flesh-dead-190306280.html?orig_host_hdr=news.yahoo.com&.intl=US&.lang=en-US May 08 00:04:32 the chinese found an interesting way to eliminate all the waste from those forced abortions May 08 01:28:22 https://www.tizen.org/conference/tizen-developer-conference/live-stream - tizen conf May 08 01:33:55 is tizen alive May 08 01:34:40 i mean, i thought it was more vaporware than meego May 08 01:35:46 cehteh; If you do get a hobby charger, I believe you will find that your "suddenly empty" battery will test as 1100 with .1A discharge, and significantly less with .5A and .7A discharge :) May 08 01:36:21 tizen is up and kicking .. May 08 01:55:50 Well - that was content free (the above) May 08 01:56:17 ShadowJK: I was pondering that the first medfield phones have just hit, and that something might happen **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 08 03:00:01 2012