**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 12 02:59:59 2012
May 12 03:00:22 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: yes, in git you prepare commits before doing them
May 12 03:00:42 <cehteh> thats quite useful because sometimes you dont want to commit ALL the changes you did
May 12 03:01:00 <cehteh> and you may ignore the details because, in many cases you dont need to know
May 12 03:01:23 <DocScrutinizer> exactly my concern
May 12 03:01:43 <cehteh> there is a git commit -a     for add all .. like CVS 
May 12 03:01:48 <DocScrutinizer> there's no "simple usage" of git
May 12 03:01:49 <cehteh> (i never use that but weell)
May 12 03:01:54 <cehteh> there is
May 12 03:02:58 <cehteh> well i go to bed .. if you *really* want to try I would offer you my help .. but i dont want to push you and i dont want to waste time if you are not interested
May 12 03:03:21 <DocScrutinizer> I'm interested how that simple usage would look like
May 12 03:03:27 <DocScrutinizer> for now it's a
May 12 03:03:53 <DocScrutinizer> exactly as I expected: look at manpage, gasp, shrug, turn away
May 12 03:04:03 <cehteh> yes thats wrong :) ... 
May 12 03:04:18 <cehteh> there is information overload and many many ways how to do things
May 12 03:04:27 <cehteh> 95% or more you dont need for simple usage
May 12 03:04:46 <DocScrutinizer> and no way to spot the 5%
May 12 03:05:16 <cehteh> i introduced a lot people to git, worked well
May 12 03:05:46 <cehteh> but not know .. ask me another day
May 12 03:05:55 <DocScrutinizer> I'd for sure appreciate such introduction
May 12 03:06:01 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
May 12 03:06:34 <cehteh> btw .. if you like to make it to FrOSCon this year, we (lumeira) team making a small/open git workshop
May 12 03:06:59 <DocScrutinizer> I doubt my daywork will allow that
May 12 03:07:14 <cehteh> the conference is on weekend
May 12 03:07:20 <DocScrutinizer> (messing around with ClearCase, you know)
May 12 03:07:33 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, when?
May 12 03:07:46 <DocScrutinizer> where?
May 12 03:07:47 <cehteh> http://www.froscon.de/startseite/
May 12 03:07:57 <cehteh> St Augustin (near Bonn)
May 12 03:08:49 <DocScrutinizer> might be fun
May 12 03:08:59 <cehteh> it is very much fun ..
May 12 03:09:09 <cehteh> thats my favorite conference every year
May 12 03:09:18 <DocScrutinizer> I may see if I can get a day off at work to travel there
May 12 03:09:31 <cehteh> smallish enough not to get lost, big enough to meet a lot opensource people
May 12 03:09:42 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
May 12 03:09:50 <DocScrutinizer> not too far from my QTH
May 12 03:09:58 <cehteh> yeah we arrive on friday too, usually help setup at afternoon
May 12 03:10:15 <cehteh> yoo prolly have to hurry for hotel rooms :)
May 12 03:10:25 <cehteh> (as every year)
May 12 03:10:28 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
May 12 03:10:45 <DocScrutinizer> any recommendations?
May 12 03:11:00 <cehteh> nope 
May 12 03:11:11 <cehteh> well we have a extremely cheap but okish one
May 12 03:11:30 <cehteh> they stil had 2 single rooms free last time i asked
May 12 03:12:17 <cehteh> well there is the Hotel Regina close to the conference .. but its usually first booked out, more expensive, and ugly :)
May 12 05:49:16 <teotwaki_> if anyone knows the answer to this, please do reach out: Hi, I'm creating a UDP socket on INADDR_ANY, and it is correctly shown as 0.0.0.0:port or *:port in lsof/netstat, but as soon as I call connect() on it, it automatically binds to a specific interface. Here's a testcase: http://ideone.com/IKcUr
May 12 05:58:09 <jkyro> isn't that the expected behavior? Calling connect() on an UDP socket implies that you are going to send all traffic to a specific IP which cannot change
May 12 05:58:50 <teotwaki_> jkyro: yes, but it doesn't say anything about the interface on which you'll listen.
May 12 05:59:16 <jkyro> you can't both listen and connect a socket
May 12 05:59:36 <jkyro> or, if you want to do that, don't call connect(), instead use sendmsg
May 12 06:00:01 <teotwaki_> yes, you can listen and connect.
May 12 06:00:03 <teotwaki_> Why couldn't you?
May 12 06:00:08 <jkyro> connect() effectively means that the socket will only accept data from the IP you are connecting to
May 12 06:00:30 <teotwaki_> well, maybe not listen, but receive data, and discard the data that comes from another ip:port combination
May 12 06:01:02 <jkyro> I'm not actually sure about that
May 12 06:01:17 <jkyro> might be totally wrong about this
May 12 06:01:23 <jkyro> but that's what I'd expect
May 12 06:01:55 <jkyro> because when you are telling the socket to connect(), you are implying that yhou want to converse with this specific IP
May 12 06:02:22 <teotwaki_> that's what I said :)
May 12 06:03:21 <teotwaki_> jkyro: my issue is not with the conversing to and from a specific IP
May 12 06:03:39 <teotwaki_> jkyro: it's with the fact that even though I provide INADDR_ANY, the socket ends up bound on a specific interface.
May 12 06:03:40 <jkyro> ok, what is it then? :)
May 12 06:04:10 <teotwaki_> and I have no control over said interface
May 12 06:04:34 <teotwaki_> I *think* the interface is chosen based on whether or not it can reach the ip:port combination provided during connect()
May 12 06:04:42 <teotwaki_> but I have no idea.
May 12 06:05:08 <teotwaki_> And I have no way of predicting which interface it'll pick.
May 12 06:05:12 <jkyro> the interface is chosen based on the usual routing rules I suppose
May 12 06:05:20 <teotwaki_> except it shouldn't
May 12 06:05:40 <teotwaki_> you can't go from INADDR_ANY to one single interface, just like that.
May 12 06:05:58 <jkyro> of course not, it depends on the destination IP
May 12 06:06:02 <teotwaki_> that completely breaks the whole behaviour of INADDR_ANY
May 12 06:06:41 <teotwaki_> To give you an example, our servers have 8 IP addresses.
May 12 06:07:05 <teotwaki_> One for RTP traffic, one for SIP, one for SSH, one for...
May 12 06:08:01 <jkyro> how many interfaces are there then+
May 12 06:08:09 <teotwaki_> well, 9
May 12 06:08:22 <teotwaki_> When a call arrives on the SIP interface, we open a new UDP socket on INADDR_ANY, grab the port we received, and reply "sure, send your RTP data to <RTP_IP>:port"
May 12 06:08:41 <teotwaki_> but, when we did the connect() on the UDP socket, instead of listening on all interfaces, as INADDR_ANY is supposed to
May 12 06:08:50 <teotwaki_> it bound to SSH_IP.
May 12 06:08:56 <teotwaki_> so we don't get any data.
May 12 06:09:10 <jkyro> ok, so why don't you bind it to the specific interface then?
May 12 06:09:15 <jkyro> *RTP specific
May 12 06:09:31 <teotwaki_> yes, that'd be the obvious workaround, and the one I'll be implementing in 30 minutes or so
May 12 06:09:43 <teotwaki_> but that doesn't take away the fact that this is some serious breakage.
May 12 06:10:21 <jkyro> huh?
May 12 06:10:48 <teotwaki_> I'm specifically telling the socket to not bind to a specific interface, and it does just that.
May 12 06:11:13 <jkyro> not before you call connect on it
May 12 06:11:39 <teotwaki_> but the man pages or POSIX standard don't say anything about changing the scope of a socket when calling connect() on it.
May 12 06:13:03 <teotwaki_> jkyro: basically, I'm suspecting either a bug in either POSIX or the UDP stack, I'm just trying to get confirmation of it. The problem I have is I can't believe I would've stumbled upon such a bug.
May 12 06:16:36 <teotwaki_> anyway, enough of that. Going for a jog. Waking up at 6AM on a saturday just to write a testcase for some obscure behaviour is just sad.
May 12 06:17:37 <jkyro> connect spec says "If  the socket has not already been bound to a local address, connect() shall bind it to an address which, unless the socket's  address family is AF_UNIX, is an unused local address."
May 12 06:18:04 <teotwaki_> jkyro: where did you see that?
May 12 06:18:10 <jkyro> this one http://www.unix.com/man-page/posix/3posix/connect/
May 12 06:19:17 <teotwaki_> shoot
May 12 06:19:34 <teotwaki_> ubuntu/mint's man pages suck then.
May 12 06:21:24 <jkyro> it's a bug in the man pages then
May 12 06:22:15 <jkyro> unless the intention is only to augment the posix/whatever spec with linux-specific info
May 12 06:22:54 <teotwaki_> Asking a friend in ##linux
May 12 06:24:41 <jkyro> I don't know who actually provides the man pages, libc maybe
May 12 06:26:05 <teotwaki_> Also, how do you know a specific version of Linux conforms to a specific verison of POSIX?
May 12 06:26:15 <teotwaki_> I mean, that page was last updated in 2003, apparently
May 12 06:26:30 <teotwaki_> so, when when did libc implement it?
May 12 06:28:19 <teotwaki_> jkyro: thanks a bunch, you've been an amazing help
May 12 06:28:32 <teotwaki_> here, you get to be on top of the world today
May 12 06:29:01 <jkyro> np, glad to help
May 12 06:29:11 <jkyro> and thanks :)
May 12 07:12:15 <Darkchaos> Hey Guys, I backed up my Phone yesterday after reflash, but now I'm missing conversation logs and phone call history
May 12 09:21:57 <Tofe> Hi !
May 12 09:24:29 <LaoLang_cool> Hi, after I changed system font to consolas, in conversation window, the text is broken into another line after the contact avaster, what's wrong?
May 12 09:25:00 <LaoLang_cool> In default font, the test is followed after the avaster
May 12 09:25:58 <LaoLang_cool> s/avaster/avatar/
May 12 09:25:58 <infobot> LaoLang_cool meant: In default font, the test is followed after the avatar
May 12 10:42:46 <LaoLang_cool> please recommended a font for maemo :)
May 12 10:45:04 <chem|st> LaoLang_cool: $default?
May 12 10:45:38 <LaoLang_cool> chem|st, I want to have a change :)
May 12 10:46:25 <chem|st> i like console sans... ;)
May 12 10:51:12 <Tofe> I have a font named "Ubuntu", from the "Carbon Steel" theme
May 12 10:52:40 <wesk77> i like DejaVu Sans
May 12 11:14:26 <tgalal> LaoLang_cool: Nokia pure http://brandbook.nokia.com/blog/view/item62250/
May 12 11:27:40 <Macer> tgalal: uhm... seriously? lol
May 12 11:27:47 <Macer> wtf cares about a font? :)
May 12 11:28:11 <Macer> lolz! and unless you are an artist you probably wouldn't even notice the difference
May 12 11:29:24 <tgalal> Macer: it's LaoLang_cool who was asking, not me :D
May 12 11:29:34 <tgalal> and I do like that Nokia pure font 
May 12 11:34:23 <Macer> it just seems so cosmetic
May 12 11:34:28 <Macer> our stock is in the gutter
May 12 11:34:34 <Macer> but look at this awesome new font?
May 12 11:37:59 <wesk77> i had problems with special characters in my mp3s id3 tags with the stock font
May 12 11:45:28 <DocScrutinizer> ohwell
May 12 11:55:02 <OkropNick> LaoLang_cool: Nokia Pure
May 12 12:05:59 * RST38h moos evilly, sacrifices a hampster to the Tentacled One
May 12 12:21:46 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: http://www.phonehouse.nl/telefoon/nokia/n900/
May 12 12:22:31 * DocScrutinizer orders two glasses 100g vodka for RST38h and himself
May 12 12:28:47 <SpeedEvil> "    The Complaint alleges that Nokia, a provider of telecommunications        infrastructure hardware, software, and services, and certain of its        officers and directors violated the federal securities laws.        Specifically, it is alleged that during the Class Period, defendants        told investors that Nokia's conversion to a Windows platform would halt        its deteriorating position in the smartphone market. It did not. 
May 12 12:29:00 <SpeedEvil> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-shuman-law-firm-files-class-action-lawsuit-against-nokia-corporation-2012-05-11
May 12 12:30:15 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.allboutn9.info/2012/05/nokia-management-gone-crazy-n9-banned.html?m=1
May 12 12:31:21 <SpeedEvil> yeah - saw that too.
May 12 12:31:37 * SpeedEvil in principle could afford a n9 at the moment.
May 12 12:31:45 <DocScrutinizer> my personal take on that is: Somebody at Nokia finally decided you can't do FOSS on embedded, as there's always some moron publishing the acme OC app, and Nokia end up servicing fried devices on warranty
May 12 12:31:51 <SpeedEvil> The chances of me purchasing one are rather small.
May 12 12:31:58 <SpeedEvil> I doubt OC is at all relevant.
May 12 12:32:03 <SpeedEvil> Utterly, utterly so.
May 12 12:32:15 <SpeedEvil> Consider the reported defect rate on the modem and USB
May 12 12:32:36 <SpeedEvil> Even worst-case OC, I doubt you'd claim that 10% of devices will die from it.
May 12 12:32:37 <DocScrutinizer> sure
May 12 12:33:13 <DocScrutinizer> but Nokia's technically based decisions at marketing level never been so sound
May 12 12:33:19 <SpeedEvil> Of course - who knows what the 'real' reasons are.
May 12 12:33:24 <SpeedEvil> We will never know them.
May 12 12:37:18 <psycho_oreos> I'd laugh if both cases are related.. meego instance is selling better than lumia and nokia is trying to hide meego instance
May 12 12:37:58 <SpeedEvil> Not impossible.
May 12 12:38:17 * SpeedEvil wishes he owned a lot of nokia stock, so he had a better picture.
May 12 12:38:26 * SpeedEvil looks at share price graph.
May 12 12:38:32 * SpeedEvil retracts that thought.
May 12 12:52:33 * psycho_oreos wastes time spent on wishing a slow and painful death on Stephen FLOP　along with the rest of nokia's FLOPxecutives like the 15% or so web developers spending time on wishing a slow and painful death on bill gates. He isn't going to retract that thought either...
May 12 12:53:37 <k273> what away to spend your time, psycho_oreos 
May 12 12:54:59 <psycho_oreos> k273, at least its not time wasted on not doing anything ;)
May 12 12:55:42 <k273> ha
May 12 12:56:42 <k273> my time is wasted waiting for the /usr/bin/hildon-input-desktop to stop eating my resource
May 12 12:56:45 <k273> =(
May 12 12:56:59 <k273> I still can't do nothing about it
May 12 12:57:45 <psycho_oreos> you can probably renice it, though it won't stop hildon-input-desktop from eating away resources
May 12 12:58:01 <psycho_oreos> renicing it to something like 40 or something lol
May 12 12:59:26 <k273> how, psycho_oreos ?
May 12 12:59:42 <k273> any help is appreciated
May 12 13:00:02 * psycho_oreos needs to dig out his N900
May 12 13:00:37 <k273> thanks, if not bothering you, psycho_oreos 
May 12 13:01:24 <psycho_oreos> not that it bothers me, moreso is that it reminds me of many things
May 12 13:02:00 <k273> I hope good ones =)
May 12 13:03:05 <psycho_oreos> yeah if I smoke weed it'll be good ones :D
May 12 13:03:11 <k273> lol
May 12 13:03:26 <k273> (wanna share?)
May 12 13:03:31 <k273> XD
May 12 13:03:57 <psycho_oreos> I don't smoke weed unfortunately :) but just the thought of it is nice
May 12 13:05:37 <psycho_oreos> seems like renice is included in maemo as standard
May 12 13:06:53 <psycho_oreos> renice -n 20 `pgrep hildon-input-desktop`
May 12 13:09:31 <k273> ah then?
May 12 13:11:12 <psycho_oreos> check the process, it should have 20 under nice field.. and your device shouldn't be bogged down. Though like I said, it'll only re-prioritise th{at,ose} thread(s), the thread(s) will still be running away churning resources but it won't heavily affect the overall performance of the device
May 12 13:11:17 <DocScrutinizer> k273: that's a terrible defect in either sw or hw. You dhould try to find out what's causing this problem, and fix it for good. renicing doesn't help anything basically
May 12 13:11:51 <psycho_oreos> still renicing may help in one able to pull up debuggers I suppose if its not hw issue
May 12 13:12:53 <k273> DocScrutinizer: yeah, thanks, DocScrutinizer, but it's getting annoying and while waiting to buy another n900 any tweak is wanted =)
May 12 13:13:05 <k273> possibly the HW
May 12 13:13:21 <DocScrutinizer> check your interrupts
May 12 13:13:24 <k273> Shift + Ctrl won't open character map
May 12 13:13:42 <DocScrutinizer> strace!
May 12 13:13:52 <k273> strace?
May 12 13:14:01 <psycho_oreos> debugger tool
May 12 13:14:05 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, so this might be a stuck key on kbd
May 12 13:14:10 <psycho_oreos> well one of the many debugging tools
May 12 13:14:45 <DocScrutinizer> waaaaaiiiit! SHIFT+ctrl?
May 12 13:14:46 <trx> isn't it alt+ctrl?
May 12 13:14:49 <DocScrutinizer> never did anything
May 12 13:15:05 <k273> eh
May 12 13:15:16 <k273> blue+ctrl
May 12 13:15:41 <k273> sorry my bad
May 12 13:15:45 <DocScrutinizer> so is blue+<number> working? is ctrl+C working in xterm?
May 12 13:15:51 <k273> working
May 12 13:15:57 <k273> working
May 12 13:15:57 <DocScrutinizer> ODD!
May 12 13:16:17 <DocScrutinizer> sth fsckd up with your vkbd I guess
May 12 13:16:23 <DocScrutinizer> you should reflash
May 12 13:16:26 <k273> =(
May 12 13:16:30 <k273> okay
May 12 13:16:31 <psycho_oreos> probably because its hildon-input-desktop hogging the CPU and is not responding
May 12 13:16:41 <k273> I thought that way too
May 12 13:17:15 <psycho_oreos> I'd ssh in and try to fix it from there, at least you can get a proper keyboard for starters
May 12 13:18:05 <k273> wait wait slow down, noob here. ssh in?
May 12 13:18:25 <DocScrutinizer> do a double full backup (backupmenu, cp all from MyDocs and ~user, do a 'normal' backup as well), then reflash to recent 1.3 and test without restoring *anything*
May 12 13:18:32 <k273> last resort is reflashing
May 12 13:18:37 <k273> okay
May 12 13:19:00 <psycho_oreos> SSH　= remote console (well in unix/unix-like terms　:))
May 12 13:19:07 <k273> oh
May 12 13:19:15 <DocScrutinizer> best practice: store all backups to uSD
May 12 13:19:28 <DocScrutinizer> ssh secure shell
May 12 13:19:42 <DocScrutinizer> aka 'puTTY'
May 12 13:20:20 <DocScrutinizer> ;-)
May 12 13:20:23 <psycho_oreos> if you didn't know what that meant, you're kinda a little late for all that necessary debugging knowledge and know how. Though I'd try and trace back to what you did last that screwed up your vkbd and see if you can `undo' it
May 12 13:20:48 <psycho_oreos> real geeks have linux boxens not puTTY ;)
May 12 13:21:10 <DocScrutinizer> psycho_oreos: I recall k273 complaining about that problem like months ago
May 12 13:21:38 <DocScrutinizer> so odds are it's hard to recall what's been last suspicious action done
May 12 13:21:46 <psycho_oreos> DocScrutinizer, and he hasn't fixed it since then?　lol ouch
May 12 13:22:20 <DocScrutinizer> k273: if I mixed up your case with a similar one, sorry
May 12 13:23:02 <k273> yes I think you mixed it up alright DocScrutinizer, but no need to sorry =)
May 12 13:23:26 <psycho_oreos> one of my outstanding issues is similar to that (in terms of procrastinating...)
May 12 13:23:30 <DocScrutinizer> well, so your case isn't unique at least :-D
May 12 13:23:56 <k273> yeah
May 12 13:24:07 <psycho_oreos> and at least you have N900, with n9 you're already fscked :)
May 12 13:24:20 <DocScrutinizer> yep :-D
May 12 13:24:33 <k273> why, psycho_oreos ?
May 12 13:24:58 <DocScrutinizer> n9/HARM not really "open"
May 12 13:25:06 <psycho_oreos> <<　fscked his vkbd on his n9 awhile back.. and because he has a lock code to be asked at boot, he cannot get into the device without a keyboard :)
May 12 13:25:39 <psycho_oreos> its what you get with a device like IPHONE　WANNABE　and you try to tinker with it...
May 12 13:25:40 <DocScrutinizer> Nokia invested considerable effort into a security framework aimed at keeping users away from internals like that
May 12 13:26:21 <DocScrutinizer> psycho_oreos: couldn't have stated it better
May 12 13:26:51 <k273> wow. thanks for the info guys. I guess I'm lucky I didn't bought it
May 12 13:26:52 <psycho_oreos> they've even went to the extent of providing N950 to developers only INSTEAD　of also providing one to tinkerers
May 12 13:27:04 <k273> wanna have 2 or 3 more used n900
May 12 13:27:19 <Hurrian> k273, they're not that hard to come by
May 12 13:27:28 <DocScrutinizer> k273: reasonable idea
May 12 13:27:42 * DocScrutinizer got 3 already
May 12 13:27:48 <psycho_oreos> though I'd be wary of the conditions of secondary/tertiary/subsequent N900
May 12 13:27:54 <k273> I figure as much psycho_oreos 
May 12 13:27:55 <DocScrutinizer> yup
May 12 13:28:03 * psycho_oreos has 3 (+1 broken screen..) N900
May 12 13:28:21 <DocScrutinizer> that's why I'm still very interested in stuff like that: http://www.phonehouse.nl/telefoon/nokia/n900/
May 12 13:28:26 <k273> hurrian and DocScrutinizer: yes
May 12 13:28:35 <Hurrian> also, aegis should've been removed for the final release of harmattan, knowing that there are again, a negligible amount of commercial apps and the expectations of the maemo community
May 12 13:29:12 <DocScrutinizer> Hurrian: that would've embarrassed the inventors of aegis crap
May 12 13:29:54 <DocScrutinizer> also whole OVI is based on that concept
May 12 13:29:57 <Hurrian> i mean, seriously, ONE widely-marketed MeeGo phone, and well, Nokia succesfully shot itself in the foot (again, once for every device ever)
May 12 13:30:01 <k273> oh
May 12 13:30:25 <k273> Hurrian: yeah, Nokia messed himself up these years
May 12 13:30:44 <k273> *itself
May 12 13:30:59 <Hurrian> also, way back, there was a N950-looking device being called the N9
May 12 13:31:01 <psycho_oreos> Hurrian, nokia shooting itself in the foot again <-- you can say that like as if its their tradition... it must be embedded in their genes or something -_-
May 12 13:31:22 <DocScrutinizer> more like an E7 looking device
May 12 13:31:25 <psycho_oreos> and the N950 had a kick ass advertisement
May 12 13:31:32 <DocScrutinizer> or rumour thereof
May 12 13:31:34 <Hurrian> could the N950 be the actual device, until people complained that the slider was wonky?
May 12 13:31:57 <k273> may be
May 12 13:32:03 <DocScrutinizer> quite probably, Hurrian 
May 12 13:32:32 <Hurrian> i mean, why make an ad for a device for developers?
May 12 13:32:47 <Hurrian> it was pretty abstract, but it was cool
May 12 13:32:47 <psycho_oreos> it was before Flop came in
May 12 13:33:30 <Hurrian> oh yeah, regarding hardware, i believe that the N9 and N950 were frozen quite some time ago, and thawed right after the Elopocalypse
May 12 13:34:07 <psycho_oreos> it was definitely something that would have deemed worthy of succeeding N900 but no... they had to mangle it like as if it looked nothing like its maemo ancestry
May 12 13:34:49 <k273> yea
May 12 13:39:34 <Hurrian> meh, the Elop thing totally flushed all hopes and dreams of a Maemo/MeeGo future with Nokia.
May 12 13:39:54 <Hurrian> (which, so far, has been the only company to produce a significant amount of said devices)
May 12 13:43:45 <k273> yeah
May 12 13:44:02 <k273> can't see the same coming out from Samsung or HTC
May 12 13:44:14 <psycho_oreos> conversely speaking, its a little refreshing to see people don't have windows everywhere either.. my brother for instance uses windows day in, day out but his phone doesn't even run windows. It goes to show that soon nokia will probably be eating its balls out
May 12 13:46:07 <Hurrian> psycho_oreos, i've seen way less high end Nokias (almost none, in fact) and more samsung Androids
May 12 13:46:17 <Hurrian> the iPhones and Blackberries are also declining
May 12 13:46:32 <Hurrian> Windows Mobile (6.5 and below)? dying.
May 12 13:46:45 <Hurrian> Windows Phone (7.x)? None at all.
May 12 13:46:48 <psycho_oreos> top two handheld platforms that are supposedly selling like hot cakes aren't running windows
May 12 13:47:29 <Hurrian> the WP7 fans are really quite vocal though
May 12 13:47:37 <k273> Hurrian: yes, everything's declining save for Androids
May 12 13:48:42 <psycho_oreos> religious > vocal (LOL) iOS and android I'm sure would have bigger wars than any either of those two versus wp
May 12 13:50:14 <k273> vocal how Hurrian ? don't see them getting vocal here
May 12 13:50:54 <psycho_oreos> they're somewhat more vocal on other tech related channels *points to channels like ##hardware for instance*
May 12 13:51:37 <Hurrian> have a friend on IRC that takes every opportunity to soapbox about how WP7 is so perfect, so smooth and integrated, while badmouthing everything else for "lag, insecurity, it doesn't run .net, it uses a retarded language like {java,obj-c), etc etc."
May 12 13:52:17 <Hurrian> you also see them doing the rounds on multiple websites
May 12 13:52:20 <psycho_oreos> I've got one word for him `fanboy'
May 12 13:52:49 <Hurrian> it's worse than iTrolls spamming "lag" and "fragmentation" about Android, really
May 12 13:53:25 <k273> ih
May 12 13:53:28 <k273> oh
May 12 13:54:20 <psycho_oreos> Hurrian, you know, you can point him out some statistics.. at least statistics don't lie that wp sucks
May 12 13:54:27 <k273> iPhone doesn't lag, lol, but simply because it doesn't multitask
May 12 13:54:31 <psycho_oreos> and then there was that link on one of the tmo user
May 12 13:54:43 <psycho_oreos> user's signature linking to a list of wp woes
May 12 13:54:46 <k273> I always have to emphasize that to an iphone user
May 12 13:55:05 <Hurrian> "it's (WP7) just not popular enough, so we must push hard to enlighten the unwashed masses" is the motto for them
May 12 13:55:22 <psycho_oreos> LOL
May 12 13:55:38 <k273> lolwut? XD
May 12 13:56:00 <psycho_oreos> Ballmer would SO　want a person like him :)
May 12 13:56:26 <k273> I played with Lumia 800 several days ago
May 12 13:56:34 <k273> really nice screen
May 12 13:56:41 <psycho_oreos> yeah its similar to n9
May 12 13:56:59 <k273> but the 'tiles' in wp7 wasn't what I thought I'd feel
May 12 13:57:08 <k273> too clunky to be honest
May 12 13:57:25 <k273> I thought it'd be smooth
May 12 13:57:50 <psycho_oreos> its windows.. what do you expect?
May 12 13:57:58 <k273> lol how tru
May 12 13:58:02 <DocScrutinizer> wait til tiles come to your desktop wincrap
May 12 13:58:06 <DocScrutinizer> ;-P
May 12 13:58:14 <k273> oh I saw that too
May 12 13:58:19 <k273> it's a no
May 12 13:58:23 <psycho_oreos> oh yeah that will happen too.. apparently its on win8 preview
May 12 13:58:30 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 12 13:58:32 <k273> yep
May 12 13:58:40 <psycho_oreos> `no more "start" menu'
May 12 13:58:46 <DocScrutinizer> ultimately braindamaged
May 12 13:58:58 <k273> windows (and linux too, to be honest) are pushing everything to suit touch devices
May 12 13:59:02 <Hurrian> something happened at MS, and it wasn't pretty.
May 12 13:59:17 <k273> we still have terminal =)
May 12 13:59:19 <DocScrutinizer> M$ killing their major clientel market: office/insdustry
May 12 13:59:23 <k273> but not winfanbois
May 12 13:59:46 <psycho_oreos> ballmer has gone retro like as if disco balls should be squared
May 12 13:59:58 <Hurrian> win7 is currently serving me well, the new stuff in win8 is worth renewing my technet for, but i do have a big gripe with the start screen
May 12 14:00:29 <Hurrian> Windows XP had a separate SKU for tablet features, why not part it out in Windows 8?
May 12 14:00:51 <k273> and the always increasing demand of hardware for win, I don't like it since the first time I know PCs
May 12 14:00:54 <Hurrian> with dism in windows vista and up, it's easy as balls to do
May 12 14:01:21 <psycho_oreos> k273, that's how they would say to keep the hardware manufacturers afloat ;)
May 12 14:01:36 <k273> yep
May 12 14:01:37 <Hurrian> k273, thankfully, we've reached the point where most hardware is "good enough", and system requirement pretty much stagnated since Vista
May 12 14:01:39 <DocScrutinizer> Hurrian: W8 is meant to be _one_ OS for _all_
May 12 14:01:44 <k273> yay
May 12 14:01:44 <psycho_oreos> too slow? time to upgrade! here, pay $$$$$ and you can enjoy it all
May 12 14:01:48 <DocScrutinizer> won't fly
May 12 14:02:06 <k273> psycho_oreos: that sucks, really, to the bones
May 12 14:02:29 <psycho_oreos> DocScrutinizer, you'll be assimilated.. not fly ;)
May 12 14:02:29 <k273> DocScrutinizer: and sadly that's how it goes with some linux distros too
May 12 14:02:38 <k273> (Ubuntu came to mind)
May 12 14:02:42 <k273> and Gnome3
May 12 14:02:43 <psycho_oreos> heh that's how microsoft rolls
May 12 14:02:44 <Hurrian> now, micrsoft just has to fix that problem of Windows taking up 16 freaking GB of space on a fresh install
May 12 14:02:57 <Hurrian> 16 frakkin GB
May 12 14:03:06 <k273> lol 16 fGBs?
May 12 14:03:11 <k273> dayum
May 12 14:03:21 <DocScrutinizer> buntkuh always been the windows for the cheeper fanboys
May 12 14:03:26 <Hurrian> a fresh install of win7 sp1 occupies about that much
May 12 14:03:56 <k273> lol @ DocScrutinizer , really?
May 12 14:04:22 <psycho_oreos> at least that's something noteworthy to talk about when people moan how long it takes to install linux and with all this 4GB of extra stuff
May 12 14:04:26 <k273> Hurrian: never installed one by myself, so I didn't know...
May 12 14:04:37 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer, I blame the Compiz jelly window rice rice rice rice video for the massive boost in popularity
May 12 14:05:00 <k273> what? my Linux Mint installed in 20 minutes, and I already installed it 3 times
May 12 14:06:02 <psycho_oreos> back when xp was `the bomb' (sic), a fresh install is nowhere near 1GB usage whereas a fully optioned popular linux distro (say fc) is around 4GB or so
May 12 14:06:41 <k273> ah
May 12 14:06:42 <psycho_oreos> tables has turned.. obviously..
May 12 14:06:44 <k273> yeah
May 12 14:07:02 <Hurrian> people still haven't learned to automate something small like Arch?
May 12 14:07:02 <k273> I remember installing mandrake using 4 cds!!
May 12 14:07:17 <k273> Hurrian: apparently no
May 12 14:07:27 * psycho_oreos is using Arch
May 12 14:07:51 <psycho_oreos> k273, suse linux pro 8 (8 CDS + 1 DVD).. top that!
May 12 14:08:34 <k273> haha I think I can't
May 12 14:08:37 * psycho_oreos thinks the entire debian repository is now around 3/4 DVD　full?
May 12 14:09:15 * psycho_oreos still has that suse box :)　and the fancy CD/DVD holder.. afterall he paid something like AUD$200 back then
May 12 14:09:23 <k273> lol
May 12 14:09:52 <k273> pretty expensive sentimental stuff
May 12 14:09:54 <k273> =)
May 12 14:09:59 <DocScrutinizer> psycho_oreos: yeah, those were the times
May 12 14:10:31 <DocScrutinizer> psycho_oreos: I fetched those boxes directly in Suse's office ;-D
May 12 14:10:32 <psycho_oreos> curiousity kills the cat obviously :)　I was too eager to try linux.. and those were somewhere round my first few days/weeks of linux
May 12 14:10:36 <jonwil> Will using Skype on the N900 drain the battery compared to normal use? And what about its use of network bandwidth?
May 12 14:10:56 <psycho_oreos> DocScrutinizer, damn! well so much for living in Deutschland ^^
May 12 14:11:11 <k273> =)
May 12 14:11:12 <Hurrian> jonwil, yeah, it's pretty heavy
May 12 14:11:27 <k273> as for that 4cds Mandrake, I bought a book and got the cds for free
May 12 14:11:44 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: it's THE battery killer
May 12 14:11:45 <Hurrian> can't speak for network use as i'm unmetered, but video quality's pretty low
May 12 14:12:02 <jonwil> I am not planning to use video or voice, just IM
May 12 14:12:12 <Hurrian> ah
May 12 14:12:13 <DocScrutinizer> doesn't make a difference
May 12 14:12:20 <DocScrutinizer> skyhost always running
May 12 14:12:21 <jonwil> ok, so what do I do to turn off Skype when I am not intending to use it?
May 12 14:12:22 <psycho_oreos> skype makes at least 20+ connections when its running
May 12 14:12:31 <k273> wow
May 12 14:12:34 <Hurrian> jonwil, disable the account
May 12 14:12:47 <DocScrutinizer> killall skyhost ;-P
May 12 14:13:15 <DocScrutinizer> uninstall skype XP
May 12 14:13:18 <k273> speaking of soc. networks, there's no way to fix twitter account integration with conversations?
May 12 14:13:23 <k273> lol DocScrutinizer 
May 12 14:13:34 <DocScrutinizer> not really
May 12 14:13:43 <DocScrutinizer> not really LOL I meant
May 12 14:13:53 <psycho_oreos> iptables -A OUTPUT -j DENY
May 12 14:14:01 <jonwil> so deselecting the "enable" check-box will disable the account and stop it using battery?
May 12 14:14:07 <DocScrutinizer> it's probably the best, and maybe the only way, to make skype not hog battery
May 12 14:14:21 <k273> well if you want a curative treatment, yeah, jonwil 
May 12 14:14:24 <DocScrutinizer> killall skyhost won't probably pan out
May 12 14:14:35 <k273> (uninstalling it)
May 12 14:14:56 <jonwil> ok, well I only need it on at specific times when the person I want to talk to over Skype is likely to be available
May 12 14:15:04 <k273> I meant definitive treatment
May 12 14:15:11 <jonwil> so it sounds like I can disable it at all other times and not drain the battery as much
May 12 14:15:12 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: check skyhost stuff
May 12 14:15:19 <DocScrutinizer> find a way to kick it
May 12 14:15:28 <DocScrutinizer> "stop skype" ?
May 12 14:15:30 <DocScrutinizer> NFC
May 12 14:15:38 <k273> kickall? XD
May 12 14:16:17 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: netstat and ps are your friends
May 12 14:16:27 <DocScrutinizer> buzzword skyhost
May 12 14:17:18 <psycho_oreos> there's a nice TCP　terminator tool, its called `cutter' run that on a while loop for a few seconds and you might shave off some excess battery usage ;)
May 12 14:18:19 <DocScrutinizer> cutter? should've been named mower
May 12 14:18:38 <k273> seems battery life is the main problem with n900 everywhere... 
May 12 14:18:52 <DocScrutinizer> no
May 12 14:19:03 <k273> and I don't see the rumored 3000mAh one coming anytime soon
May 12 14:19:18 <psycho_oreos> with the right setup you could make N900 last around a day of minimal-average use
May 12 14:19:21 <Hurrian> it'll easily last around a day.
May 12 14:19:33 <DocScrutinizer> it's just the devels' unawareness about embedded and what you'd better NOT do on such a platform
May 12 14:19:39 <k273> first time I have it yah, it could last 1 and a half day
May 12 14:19:40 <psycho_oreos> hardware hack for 2000+mAH is available however
May 12 14:19:50 <Hurrian> heavy use can drop the battery in ~1 hour, though
May 12 14:20:03 <k273> yep, that's what I'm talkin about
May 12 14:20:04 <Hurrian> (100% CPU at 600MHz with WiFi on, 2G)
May 12 14:20:17 <k273> I never even used wifi
May 12 14:20:17 <DocScrutinizer> Hurrian: just like on any other mobile phone
May 12 14:20:24 <jonwil> in terms of network use, the answer seem to be to make sure I am not logged into Skype when I go out and leave WiFi
May 12 14:20:24 <psycho_oreos> 3/3.5G would also drain the battery heavily too
May 12 14:20:34 <k273> yeah
May 12 14:20:50 <jonwil> on my wifi its fine because I have nice fast pipe and nice fat quota
May 12 14:21:00 <jonwil> but on GSM I have limited quota and slow speeds
May 12 14:22:08 <k273> my main thing is reading from internet, so 3G plus screen on all time
May 12 14:22:19 <k273> could get 3 hrs tops
May 12 14:22:46 <psycho_oreos> that's pretty much somewhat expected :)
May 12 14:22:52 <k273> yep
May 12 14:23:05 <k273> first time I have it it could last 5 hrs
May 12 14:23:13 * DocScrutinizer moans at missing concept of several virtual NIC devices in /dev which all link to whatever the connectivity might be right ATM, but offer different priorities and autoconnect settings and allowed real networks
May 12 14:23:21 <k273> and those trackerd and hildon-input-desktop don't help lol
May 12 14:24:15 <DocScrutinizer> like e.g. a NIC 'passive' wich never will autoconnect and only offer network when another virtual NIC opened connection for it
May 12 14:24:31 <psycho_oreos> trackerd usually runs at startup and occasionally when you've disconnected from a PC and that the device was in mass storage mode
May 12 14:24:38 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer, that's because we're not using NetworkManager
May 12 14:24:40 <k273> I don't autoconnect. that's unwise (batterylife wise and security wise)
May 12 14:25:01 <DocScrutinizer> or "free-as-beer" which will only connect to known free WLANs and USB and BT-PAN
May 12 14:25:08 <Hurrian> also, trackerd usually runs away and ramps CPU and IO to 100%
May 12 14:25:27 <k273> yes
May 12 14:25:32 <DocScrutinizer> then make each app use whatever user decides, as NIC
May 12 14:25:44 <k273> psycho_oreos and Hurrian : yes, and DocScrutinizer and chem|st had taught me a lot
May 12 14:26:21 <psycho_oreos> autodisconnect program concept isn't bad but its flawed otherwise :/
May 12 14:27:30 <psycho_oreos> at least it gives one some sense of control in extending the battery life (if tweaked right)
May 12 14:28:14 <k273> mhmm...
May 12 14:31:58 <DocScrutinizer> autodisconnect is nonsense
May 12 14:32:01 <k273> http://www.antimoon.com/blog/2012/05/ldoce-viewer/?ml
May 12 14:36:12 <k273> I found that dictionaries in linux are still limited functionally, and/or too clunky... 
May 12 14:37:13 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
May 12 14:37:15 <DocScrutinizer> ?
May 12 14:38:21 <k273> yes, DocScrutinizer?
May 12 14:41:08 <javispedro> moo
May 12 14:41:27 <k273> arf!
May 12 15:07:55 <javispedro> hm, do not leave n810 under weight, speakers are plugged in via spring contacts and wear out
May 12 15:08:03 <javispedro> (fortunately easy repaired)
May 12 15:14:40 <k273> gottago, DocScrutinizer , psycho_oreos, Hurrian . thanks for the chat. have a good day/night!
May 12 15:36:58 <Darkchaos> Do some of you experience problems with the usb port of your mobile as well?
May 12 15:40:18 <Hurrian> it's a common problem on the N900
May 12 15:40:21 <Hurrian> fix: resolder USB port
May 12 16:05:39 <Darkchaos> can it be done by a simple electrician?
May 12 16:06:11 <Darkchaos> but as it looks atm i cannot open it simply, right?
May 12 16:06:27 <Darkchaos> Is it just unsoldering and soldering again?
May 12 16:11:20 <Darkchaos> Hurrian
May 12 16:18:42 <jonwil> Seems like setting Skype availability to "offline" causes skyhost to terminate
May 12 16:18:55 <jonwil> so it looks like I can save battery doing that
May 12 17:20:32 <chem|st> jonwil: skype is known to cause alot of wakeups
May 12 17:23:59 <SpeedEvil> In addition, monster battery use due to data transfer
May 12 17:32:35 <jonwil> is it normal for multiple copies of skyhost to be running when I am connected to skype?
May 12 17:32:40 <jonwil> I am assuming it is
May 12 17:32:49 <ShadowJK> ya
May 12 17:32:55 <ShadowJK> some 10 threads or so
May 12 17:33:26 <jonwil> ok
May 12 17:35:23 <jonwil> ok, lets find out where telepathy-spirit is registered/set up/etc
May 12 17:35:28 <jonwil> i.e. what causes it to start
May 12 17:45:34 <jonwil> ok, I cant see anything in there that would allow Skype to wake up from whatever state its in when I set it to "offline", there is no Skype daemon or anything else running and nothing talking to any Skype servers so it should only start up when I actually set availability and make it come online again
May 12 17:47:17 <jonwil> all the information I have seen though indicates that the Skype protocol is a piece of junk (worse still, proprietary junk)
May 12 18:46:47 <DocScrutinizer> Darkchaos: 
May 12 18:46:52 <DocScrutinizer> ~usbfix
May 12 18:46:53 <infobot> from memory, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)
May 12 19:00:26 <cehteh> hey .. i want to seal my device for underwater: P
May 12 19:04:21 <SpeedEvil> Me too
May 12 19:05:05 <SpeedEvil> Wanna split http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silicone-encapsulant-solar-cells-1-1-kg-QSIL-216-/270717796704?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item3f0809c160 ?
May 12 19:29:56 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: SpeedEvil simple enough - place a scotch patch on USB and AV plug appertures, fill the whole kbd half with 2k-epoxy 
May 12 19:30:23 <DocScrutinizer> for the screen it's a tiny bit less simple but basicaly same procedure
May 12 19:40:15 <SpeedEvil> Epoxy is generally a bad idea 
May 12 19:40:24 <SpeedEvil> shrinkage makes electronics unhappy
May 12 19:45:59 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: i had a simpler solution: ziplock bag
May 12 19:46:31 <cehteh> doesnt look pretty but works
May 12 20:39:09 <Sicelo> hmm, bq27200 shows max 150mA charging from wall charger
May 12 20:39:11 <Sicelo> :\
May 12 20:46:43 <SpeedEvil> with the device idle?
May 12 20:46:51 <SpeedEvil> Also - what's the charge state?
May 12 20:47:16 <SpeedEvil> With device non-idle - that's not ridiculous.
May 12 20:47:30 <ShadowJK> or battery near full
May 12 20:47:37 <SpeedEvil> As with battery ...
May 12 20:47:40 <Sicelo> idle
May 12 20:48:15 <SpeedEvil> battery voltage ?
May 12 20:48:23 <Sicelo> when i disconnect charger, i get a nice 4mA standby current .. so i know i don't have bad stuff running
May 12 20:48:50 <SpeedEvil> the nokia charger?
May 12 20:49:22 <Sicelo> well, now it's full.. but voltage was about 80% when i first noticed
May 12 20:50:21 <ShadowJK> so if it was almost full the chargerate is explained
May 12 20:50:22 <SpeedEvil> 80% charge may be where it's starting to taper off
May 12 20:50:25 <Sicelo> yeah, nokia charger.. original.. same one that came with the N900 a year ago
May 12 20:50:35 <Sicelo> hmm, ok :/
May 12 20:50:53 <ShadowJK> my old battery started tapering at 50 :)
May 12 20:50:59 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
May 12 20:51:04 <SpeedEvil> Old cells are bad that way
May 12 20:53:01 <Sicelo> ow.. i have not treated my N900 battery too well :P
May 12 20:53:52 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: see CC/CV chaging, wikipedia
May 12 20:55:20 <Sicelo> thanks. i'm there now 
May 12 20:56:27 <ShadowJK> http://enivax.net/jk/n900/N900-BL5J-bq24150-std-4200-950-100.png red is voltage, green is current, seconds on x axis
May 12 21:00:11 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: this been from a 0% cell?
May 12 21:00:41 <DocScrutinizer> scratch that
May 12 21:00:51 <ShadowJK> yes
May 12 21:00:52 <DocScrutinizer> initial volatge 3.3V
May 12 21:02:05 <DocScrutinizer> dang, the time axis has to be wrong
May 12 21:02:15 <ShadowJK> could be
May 12 21:02:27 <ShadowJK> does it make more sense if you multiply it by 5
May 12 21:02:40 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 12 21:02:43 <DocScrutinizer> definitely
May 12 21:03:05 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
May 12 21:03:10 <SpeedEvil> It's quite an old cell perhaps too
May 12 21:03:49 <SpeedEvil> A third of an ohmish
May 12 21:04:01 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: I don't think so, according to delta-U @ t=1800
May 12 21:04:06 <ShadowJK> no it was probably new ish and made on main n900, as the noise looks kinda like irc and wifi left on :P
May 12 21:04:09 <DocScrutinizer> vs delta-I
May 12 21:05:20 <DocScrutinizer> delta-I almost 200mA, delta-U <100mV
May 12 21:05:28 <DocScrutinizer> doesn't look too old
May 12 21:05:39 <SpeedEvil> hmm - actually not.
May 12 21:05:48 * SpeedEvil just woke up for a bit.
May 12 21:05:59 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
May 12 21:06:13 <DocScrutinizer> you're fine over at your island?
May 12 21:07:13 <SpeedEvil> ?
May 12 21:07:21 <Sicelo> thanks for the help guys :)
May 12 21:19:23 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: just asking how's living on the isle
May 12 21:20:07 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: or did you move to the continent meanwhile?
May 12 21:21:55 <SpeedEvil> Fine - bit rainy yesterday - but a nice day today.
May 12 21:22:00 <SpeedEvil> Solar-hot-water++
May 12 21:22:05 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
May 12 21:22:13 <SpeedEvil> Tank from cold to 67C this evening.
May 12 21:22:22 <DocScrutinizer> wow
May 12 21:22:38 <SpeedEvil> ~500e panel from ebay, and some random fittings.
May 12 21:23:02 <DocScrutinizer> I recently checked parafin for thermic storage
May 12 21:23:14 <DocScrutinizer> still too expensive and bulky
May 12 21:23:18 <SpeedEvil> Storage is problematic.
May 12 21:24:23 <DocScrutinizer> I'd need a tank like 50cm high in whole my flat, to make this cross the break-even
May 12 21:24:57 <DocScrutinizer> plus isolation of course
May 12 21:25:35 <SpeedEvil> Insulation generally wins.
May 12 21:26:14 <DocScrutinizer> if my flat was 380+cm high, I'd consider it ;-D
May 12 21:26:27 <Sc0rpius> DocScrutinizer, what's your opinion on Tizen?
May 12 21:26:30 <Sc0rpius> (if you have one)
May 12 21:26:33 <DocScrutinizer> :-S
May 12 21:26:37 <DocScrutinizer> just that
May 12 21:26:41 <Sc0rpius> heh
May 12 21:26:51 <Sc0rpius> another already-dead-before-born OS?
May 12 21:26:58 <DocScrutinizer> dunno
May 12 21:27:14 <DocScrutinizer> might as well become an android kiler, for all I know
May 12 21:27:15 <SpeedEvil> Shipping hardware.
May 12 21:27:33 <SpeedEvil> Then it sort-of-gets serious.
May 12 21:27:33 <DocScrutinizer> I don't like the concept
May 12 21:27:54 <DocScrutinizer> as I don't like andridiot
May 12 21:28:30 <DocScrutinizer> I even doubt it has any decent userland
May 12 21:28:53 <DocScrutinizer> since what I hear it's massively html5 centric
May 12 21:29:18 <dm8tbr> they gave me a developer device at the conference this week
May 12 21:29:57 <DocScrutinizer> so cat andridiot| sed "/tizen/ s/dalvik/html/"
May 12 21:29:58 <dm8tbr> lacks a CMT and is not really pocket size, but otherwise it's real hardware with all the features, bells and whistles
May 12 21:30:10 <SpeedEvil> No modem?
May 12 21:30:28 <DocScrutinizer> meh
May 12 21:30:32 <dm8tbr> yeah, much easier and cheaper that way I guess
May 12 21:30:37 <DocScrutinizer> there's legion of tablet OS
May 12 21:30:38 <dm8tbr> no CE/FCC needed
May 12 21:31:04 <dm8tbr> they had a prototype with CMT they used to show it can make phonecalls during the keynote
May 12 21:31:08 <SpeedEvil> Still need CE/FCC
May 12 21:31:18 <SpeedEvil> Just it may be easier to get.
May 12 21:31:28 <SpeedEvil> I suspect they all have CMT, just disabled
May 12 21:31:30 <dm8tbr> yeah, that's what I meant :)
May 12 21:31:54 <dm8tbr> dunno, didn't open mine enough to check for signs of CMT and or antennas
May 12 21:31:59 <SpeedEvil> I've just been looking at my cheapo-tablet, a mini-pci card, and the space behind the speakers.
May 12 21:32:14 <SpeedEvil> mini-pci cellmo
May 12 21:32:22 <dm8tbr> my Archos101gen9 has a slot for a cellmo :)
May 12 21:32:47 <SpeedEvil> This is a 'wopad i7' - which is sort-of-OK, but for comedic speakers.
May 12 21:33:03 <dm8tbr> and as it's just a regular USB dongle I can also use it on my laptop
May 12 21:34:55 * DocScrutinizer ponders motivation to fudge yesterday's onliner into a proper calibrate-bq27k.sh
May 12 21:35:14 <dm8tbr> coming back to Titsen... I haven't quite made my mind up yet. Their app story has its merits, their intent on standardizing everything through W3C is commendable, but the underlying OS architecture is a harmattan-reprise
May 12 21:35:36 <teotwaki_> and?
May 12 21:35:50 <teotwaki_> Underlying OS architecture is just a means to an end -- it's not fixed in stone.
May 12 21:36:04 <dm8tbr> sure, for app developers it doesn't matter much
May 12 21:36:16 * DocScrutinizer throws up
May 12 21:36:28 <dm8tbr> but what is likely is that it will make OEMs shun the platform as they smell a major rewrite
May 12 21:36:41 <teotwaki_> OEMs don't care.
May 12 21:36:58 <dm8tbr> (it's another .deb -> .rpm transition, plus a LOT of SLP legacy that needs cleaning up)
May 12 21:37:25 <DocScrutinizer> damn you crash&die, I need to use /whois twice a day for your stupid new nick
May 12 21:37:26 <dm8tbr> also their architecture is contradictory: they laud oFono while at the same time reinventing it
May 12 21:38:10 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
May 12 21:38:47 <DocScrutinizer> probably they curse aegis while same time tweaking SE into an aegis clone as well?
May 12 21:40:01 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
May 12 21:40:10 <dm8tbr> aegis was nokia, intel seems to have this smack stuff
May 12 21:40:16 * DocScrutinizer notices we lost our +V of the day user
May 12 21:40:25 <teotwaki_> DocScrutinizer: is it because I blabber so much shite, or seem actually insightful?
May 12 21:40:50 <DocScrutinizer> it's because I never can recall your new nick
May 12 21:41:22 <DocScrutinizer> so when I think "wait, wasn't that crashand?" I have to use /whois again
May 12 21:42:20 <teotwaki_> good thing I kept the old user account then, eh?
May 12 21:42:25 <DocScrutinizer> yoh
May 12 21:42:57 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
May 12 21:43:36 <DocScrutinizer> smack, that  sounds like right name for this kinda stuff
May 12 21:44:28 <DocScrutinizer> is it also tivoized?
May 12 21:45:04 <DocScrutinizer> or rather, is it also EVIL[TM], like paegis?
May 12 21:45:27 <DocScrutinizer> or is it actually meant for user's security, rather than DRM?
May 12 21:46:31 <DocScrutinizer> or simply: who owns the root cert of smack?
May 12 21:56:20 <cehteh> 3767mV ... next try :)
May 12 23:21:38 <Jwzr> hello im searching for serial key 
May 12 23:21:47 <DocScrutinizer> for *what*?
May 12 23:21:49 <Jwzr> i cant find that crap
May 12 23:22:00 <Jwzr> some utility softwaew
May 12 23:22:12 <DocScrutinizer> this is no warez channel
May 12 23:23:30 <DocScrutinizer> we're mostly using FOSS here, which generally doesn'T need any such key
May 12 23:36:40 <cehteh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psH3HTK19rM << there was nice weather today
May 12 23:43:32 <ShadowJK> the "serial key" for "some utility softwaew". Even if this was a warez chan, you'd not have much luck getting a key
May 13 00:00:37 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders what that's been now
May 13 00:00:51 <DocScrutinizer> prolly ECHAN
May 13 00:01:15 <DocScrutinizer> or EBRAIN
May 13 00:02:16 <cehteh> ENBRAIN
May 13 00:49:13 <DocScrutinizer> wtf a heli or a hornet on meth?
May 13 01:15:01 <cehteh> throwing grass at the bystanders :) .. 
May 13 01:27:14 <DocScrutinizer> better than throwing bystanders at the grass ;-P
May 13 01:32:04 <cehteh> that was filmed with a iphone, quite wide angle, some figured ended just 3m in front of us
May 13 01:46:15 <GeneralAntilles> cehteh, is that yours?
May 13 01:46:28 <cehteh> nope
May 13 01:46:54 <cehteh> jonas, 14yrs old with a big logo 600 :)
May 13 01:47:11 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I got a 450X last month.
May 13 01:47:17 <cehteh> ah nice one 
May 13 01:47:17 <GeneralAntilles> Finally got into RC in December.
May 13 01:47:26 <GeneralAntilles> I'm still a terrible pilot.
May 13 01:47:31 <cehteh> haha i started in december/janurary too
May 13 01:47:33 <GeneralAntilles> All those years of X-Plane only paid off a little.
May 13 01:47:34 <cehteh> same here
May 13 01:47:41 <cehteh> well i am considering a 300X
May 13 01:47:43 <GeneralAntilles> Got a fleet of mCP Xs and a 450X
May 13 01:47:50 <GeneralAntilles> 300X looks amazing.
May 13 01:47:54 <cehteh> yep
May 13 01:47:54 <GeneralAntilles> I'm getting a 130X instead.
May 13 01:47:57 <GeneralAntilles> I like the small size.
May 13 01:48:06 <cehteh> i have a v120 .. same size
May 13 01:48:11 <ShadowJK> logo \o/
May 13 01:48:12 <GeneralAntilles> Less of the holy-shit-this-is-scary feeling.
May 13 01:48:39 <cehteh> 130x seems to look nice, but its pricy and 6 minutes flighttime are not promising
May 13 01:48:56 <GeneralAntilles> 300X is probably going to be less. ;)
May 13 01:49:05 <GeneralAntilles> 450X is 4-5 depending on the level of smack.
May 13 01:49:12 <ShadowJK> the sim world is perfect :)
May 13 01:49:15 <ShadowJK> real world isn't
May 13 01:49:21 <cehteh> hey i get 13.5 minutes from my V120 to batterys empty .. usually i try to fly only 9-10 minutes
May 13 01:50:07 <cehteh> well i am not getting one soon .. i wait for it to be proven or even watch and see what new will be there in 6-12 months
May 13 01:50:15 <GeneralAntilles> Yeesh.
May 13 01:50:24 <GeneralAntilles> My stock mCP X gets about 5.
May 13 01:50:27 <GeneralAntilles> Brushless 4-5.
May 13 01:50:40 <GeneralAntilles> How big is the damn battery?
May 13 01:51:01 <cehteh> the AR7200BX is awesome
May 13 01:51:05 <GeneralAntilles> 600mAh. Is that 3D flight?
May 13 01:51:07 <GeneralAntilles> Yes it is.
May 13 01:51:09 <cehteh> 1S 950mah
May 13 01:51:40 <cehteh> the stock batteries are only 650mah .. but i got hobbyking ones from hongkong 
May 13 01:52:09 <cehteh> hey 650mah costs 7eur here .. the 950mah from hk cost 2,80Eur :)
May 13 01:52:44 <cehteh> and no i dont do 3D  yet :P
May 13 01:54:14 <cehteh> apropos mcpx .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBrbegOtrsk
May 13 01:54:58 <cehteh> he is doing autorotations and bladestops with the mcpx as well (freewheeling mod)
May 13 01:55:14 <GeneralAntilles> The HobbyKing batteries don't last many cycles, though. :\
May 13 01:56:17 <cehteh> working for me
May 13 01:56:33 <cehteh> i heared mixed impressions, many tell that the 1S are ok
May 13 01:56:40 <cehteh> and i dont push them hard
May 13 01:56:59 <GeneralAntilles> They work fine
May 13 01:57:17 <GeneralAntilles> but their expected lifespan doesn't stack up again Hyperion, ThunderPower, etc.
May 13 01:58:10 <cehteh> lets see .. they are cheap and i have plenty now
May 13 01:58:56 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah. Not making a judgement. :P
May 13 01:58:59 <GeneralAntilles> Just forewarning.
May 13 01:59:14 <cehteh> (6 stock 650mah and 12 HK 950mah) .. sum up to flight time of more than 3 hours, i have to push it that i cycle them at least once a week :P
May 13 01:59:31 <cehteh> abnd if they die i just order new ones ...
May 13 01:59:52 <GeneralAntilles> Tradeoff for more flight time is reduced performance.
May 13 02:00:29 <cehteh> which is good for me .. :] ... dont want to order spare parts once a week
May 13 02:00:40 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that's one big reason Walkera doesn't work for me.
May 13 02:00:49 <GeneralAntilles> I can go to my LHS and get any Horizon Hobby part I need.
May 13 02:00:59 <cehteh> well V120D02S is quite crash proof
May 13 02:01:13 <cehteh> ok
May 13 02:01:20 <cehteh> i have to order stuff anyways
May 13 02:01:26 * ShadowJK can't get anything at all locally, except esky which I can get local-ish. :P
May 13 02:01:54 <cehteh> i also felt the mcpx is a little to small
May 13 02:02:09 <GeneralAntilles> Makes it practically crash proof if you hit throttle hold quickly.
May 13 02:02:17 <cehteh> yes
May 13 02:02:27 <cehteh> haha that was throttle hold :)
May 13 02:02:59 <cehteh> today i flew to far away and couldnt see the attitude and came down ...
May 13 02:03:06 <cehteh> long walk :P .. 
May 13 02:03:15 <cehteh> not much happened lukily
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 13 02:59:59 2012