**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 20 02:59:59 2012
May 20 05:10:39 <DocScrutinizer> new USB hotmode script: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1209444#post1209444
May 20 05:10:46 <DocScrutinizer> hostmode even
May 20 05:12:35 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: ^^^
May 20 05:12:39 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: ^^^
May 20 06:43:07 <Sicelo> LaoLang_cool: 15 minutes in calendar? :\
May 20 06:45:25 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: alarm time default is 15min before date
May 20 06:46:15 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: how do you like my script?
May 20 06:46:30 <Sicelo> let me go there :)
May 20 06:47:54 <LaoLang_cool> Sicelo, yes ;p
May 20 06:48:24 <r00t|home> <DocScrutinizer> it's completely useless since >> The following packages have unmet dependencies:  hostmode-gui: Depends: kernel-feature-usbhost<<
May 20 06:48:24 <r00t|home> <DocScrutinizer> NO way to fix this, it seems
May 20 06:48:26 <r00t|home> edit /var/lib/dpkg/status
May 20 06:48:59 <DocScrutinizer> r00t|home: thanks
May 20 06:49:57 <r00t|home> just axe whatever dependancies you don't like, will persist until package is reinstalled... i do that all the time...
May 20 06:53:58 <Sicelo> DocScrutinizer: \o/
May 20 06:55:51 <Sicelo> just one other question .. there's a couple of `if [ $notify ]` lines but it appears that $notify is never false anyway
May 20 06:57:07 <archeyDevil> Yay!
May 20 06:57:10 <archeyDevil> Hello everyone :)
May 20 06:57:35 <archeyDevil> Anyone know how to get irssi and ping working as a standard user?
May 20 06:58:02 <psycho_oreos> suid
May 20 06:58:11 <Sicelo> irssi should do so by default. at least mine did :\
May 20 06:58:20 <archeyDevil> :/
May 20 06:58:22 <psycho_oreos> and irssi shouldn't require root really
May 20 06:59:05 <archeyDevil> Hmm..
May 20 06:59:09 * archeyDevil opens vim on the config :P
May 20 06:59:25 <Sicelo> maybe you mean `screen` :P
May 20 06:59:57 <Sicelo> which is broken for user. a 'fix' is somewhere in the bug-tracker
May 20 07:00:07 * archeyDevil fixed it
May 20 07:00:53 <archeyDevil> Over ssh. TERM=xterm irssi :P (doesn't like rxvt-unicode-256colors)
May 20 07:02:25 <archeyDevil> Hmm.. Strange.. /channel -auto ##mychan freenode chanpass doesn't auto connect...
May 20 07:02:42 <DocScrutinizer51> Sicelo: $notify is env that you either define differently in shellscript, or use >> notify="" start-hostmode
May 20 07:03:02 <Sicelo> ah, gotcha :)
May 20 07:03:15 * Sicelo loves this 
May 20 07:03:52 * archeyDevil loves his Nokia n900 ( got it today ) Installed. Openssh, rootsh, irssi, vim, maybe a few other things.. But thats all that comes to mind atm :)
May 20 07:04:38 <DocScrutinizer51> Sicelo: same as $debug
May 20 07:04:42 * archeyDevil configured openssh to require keys :-) Anyone got openssh and letting passwords login? (gsm/3g/etc hackable)
May 20 07:04:56 <archeyDevil> bruteforce
May 20 07:05:19 <Sicelo> problem with gui is that some "fool" might start h-e-n without even knowing what it is, and drain my battery doing nothing. or worse, still, connect a charger while h-e-n is active (not that i'm in the habit of sharing my N900)
May 20 07:05:24 <DocScrutinizer51> Sicelo: debug=true start-hostmode
May 20 07:05:28 <psycho_oreos> someone I don't think there's a likely chance you'll get hacked via 3G/GSM because most ISP runs NAT
May 20 07:05:44 <archeyDevil> psycho_oreos: pfttt.
May 20 07:05:45 <DocScrutinizer51> Sicelo: debug=true notify=false start-hostmode
May 20 07:06:09 <archeyDevil> All you need is an ip and the ability to brute force.
May 20 07:06:15 <psycho_oreos> archeyDevil, or if you really want to be extra paranoid, there's a thing called fail2ban
May 20 07:06:51 <psycho_oreos> not really, you can't SSH to your N900 or any other linux powered handhelds if they were only connected to 3G/GSM
May 20 07:06:53 <archeyDevil> Meh
May 20 07:07:07 <archeyDevil> Umm. Yes you can.. I did
May 20 07:07:19 <psycho_oreos> which carrier?
May 20 07:07:27 <Sicelo> you have a 'nice' carrier
May 20 07:07:31 <archeyDevil> Exetel which uses optus lines.
May 20 07:07:34 <psycho_oreos> indeed
May 20 07:07:44 * archeyDevil is happy :)
May 20 07:07:53 <psycho_oreos> they must be handing out static IP for GSM/3G owners
May 20 07:08:11 <archeyDevil> Normally I don't have to worry about any uploads with this isp however mobile sadly includes upload :(
May 20 07:08:17 <archeyDevil> Static ip is great :)
May 20 07:08:41 * Sicelo doesn't mind dynamic, as long as ports are open
May 20 07:08:41 <archeyDevil> Static for business plan w\ 2cents per meg :)
May 20 07:08:51 <archeyDevil> All ports open :)
May 20 07:09:03 <Sicelo> which is rarely ever the case
May 20 07:09:48 * psycho_oreos doesn't want to divulge into debating conflicts in interests but he has through crazy johns that goes through vodafail (ahem vodafone) network. For the records, no they don't do SSH forwarding so there's no direct access between his device and computer running on completely separate connections
May 20 07:09:52 <archeyDevil> XD Music it's polling out? I've got sshfs and I'm copying my music to my phone and it changes as the songs finish :)
May 20 07:10:14 <DocScrutinizer51> hey, you know I could drain your battery in like 2h with a simple ping to your IP?
May 20 07:11:02 <archeyDevil> Shouldn't do that..
May 20 07:11:06 <archeyDevil> Well. VERY slowly.
May 20 07:11:49 * archeyDevil doubts 2hrs
May 20 07:14:52 <archeyDevil> DocScrutinizer51: 
May 20 07:16:11 <Sicelo> he's just scaring you :
May 20 07:16:26 <Sicelo> lol.. DocScrutinizer51 knows what he's saying 
May 20 07:16:54 <Sicelo> actually that's documented somewhere, tmo or wmo
May 20 07:17:12 <psycho_oreos> most likely on tmo first
May 20 07:17:32 * archeyDevil loves his phone :)
May 20 07:17:46 * archeyDevil got it for AU$120 of eBay XD
May 20 07:36:34 * archeyDevil laughs at mass storage mode :P (Will prevent me from using a section of the storage on my phone... sshfs ftw!)
May 20 08:25:12 <archeyDevil> How to align the shortcuts in a grid of some sort?
May 20 08:27:26 <archeyDevil> ??
May 20 08:32:54 <archeyDevil> :(
May 20 08:46:45 <psycho_oreos> I don't think you can with shortcuts on the desktop
May 20 10:20:25 <Sicelo> psycho_oreos: archeyDevil .. iirc Theme Customizer can do it.. although i can't swear to it
May 20 10:31:18 <Estel_> archeyDevil,  scp via ss gotone disadvantage - it's much slower than mass storage
May 20 10:31:42 <Estel_> if You're copying 8GB of music or videos it does matter ;)
May 20 10:32:09 <Estel_> although, it can be faster if You do it via usb connection and usb networking (still without mass storage)
May 20 10:32:19 <Estel_> slower than mass, but quite usable
May 20 10:32:52 <Estel_> it's also possible to do some fancy things like loopback image file for mass storage
May 20 10:33:10 <Estel_> even with auto adjusting size. But I havent tried/need it myself
May 20 10:33:27 <Estel_> BTW, welcome to the world of real FOSS linux device ;)
May 20 10:33:39 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  thanks a lot, will test new script
May 20 10:33:58 <Estel_> I appreciate You rememberdd about me while posting it :)
May 20 10:38:23 <sLumPia> Hi, is this possible: talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1209438&postcount=486
May 20 10:44:32 <Sicelo> you could check via gconf .. if it's not there, your chances are slim
May 20 10:45:12 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  You've said that it's not possible to sense what speed is ok for usb device, yet we can't do that without 5V
May 20 10:45:21 <Estel_> and with 5V we can't change speed
May 20 10:45:41 <Estel_> isn't it possible to write a script, that repeatedly enables whole procedure on different speeds
May 20 10:45:53 <Estel_> then stick to correct one?
May 20 10:46:28 <Estel_> alternatively, saves correct speed for pid&vid in database, creating personal user database of devices he is using
May 20 10:46:37 <Estel_> so, next time it's blazing fast
May 20 10:46:57 <Estel_> and "probing" for correct speed must be done only once
May 20 10:47:21 <Estel_> of course it should start with most likely speed i.e. high
May 20 10:47:38 <Estel_> so, it would save in database only for low speed or full speed
May 20 10:48:02 <Estel_> what do You think about concept, doable/feasible? doesn't sound like rocket science to me
May 20 10:48:45 <Estel_> + for Your auto script - when should we plug device?
May 20 10:49:03 <Estel_> just plug it and run script? won't it hurt that it was plugged before vbooston?
May 20 10:49:15 <Estel_> using hen gui, it makes enumerating fail
May 20 10:49:30 <Estel_> I must plug device *only* after vbooston (second or two after)
May 20 10:49:34 <Estel_> never before
May 20 10:51:20 <Estel_> + could You just shamelessly upload bumped H-E-N version with improved booston script?
May 20 10:51:30 <Estel_> don't need to be maintainer to do that
May 20 10:51:45 <Estel_> it's sitting for a year on random post inside deepless hostmode thread
May 20 10:52:16 <Estel_> and IIRC replacing booston doesn't trigger need for updating gui
May 20 10:56:24 <sLumPia> Sicelo: thanks. i will check (i'm not familiar with gconf)
May 20 10:57:33 <Sicelo> Estel_: i think that's what blue_led does .. wrt speed
May 20 10:58:20 <Sicelo> but the problem is also on N900 .. because i was explicitly doing High-Speed .. but syslog shows 12M stuf..
May 20 10:59:51 <Estel_> Sicelo,  yea, but blue_led script doesn't work + hes not keeping database, so it need to re-try every time
May 20 11:00:12 <Estel_> Sicelo,  hm
May 20 12:10:48 <MrPingu> Docscrutinizer, you are rignt something is unstable in some part of wlan0
May 20 12:11:30 <MrPingu> I was browsing with MicroB, suddenly wlan disconnected and wanted to reconnect but no go
May 20 12:12:34 <Estel_> never ever encountering anything like that
May 20 12:12:35 <MrPingu> Hmm other AP then, well same problem. Another AP, no go. I wouldn't connect to any AP anymore. 
May 20 12:12:50 <MrPingu> *it
May 20 12:13:36 <Hurrian> MrPingu, must be you then, never experienced crash in wl1251 driver even with hours of downloading
May 20 12:13:45 <MrPingu> Then decided to load bleeding edge drivers, to see if driver was crashed but even with loading bleeding edge and even unloading again
May 20 12:13:55 <MrPingu> Rebooted, everything was fine
May 20 12:14:31 <MrPingu> I have dmesg logs and I was standing next to all tested APs
May 20 12:22:33 <MrPingu> Anyway, nothing should bust wlan... Besides I didn't do anything special
May 20 12:47:48 <felipec> merlin1991: I found what NetworkManager is doing, it's using the modem directly, so to the same from the command line wvdial can be used :)
May 20 12:48:08 <felipec> through /dev/ttyACM0
May 20 13:25:24 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: you can't use database as you don't get *any* info before VBUS, and you can't change speed _after_
May 20 13:29:43 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: the script is meant to be run (and tested for) _after_ plugging in peripheral
May 20 13:32:19 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: if your peripheral doesn't provide own VBUS via extremely cheap&crappy circuitry for supplementary powersupply, there will be no way for N900 or peripheral to detect it's been plugged in as long as no VBUS from N900 boost
May 20 13:33:15 <Macer> damn
May 20 13:33:19 <Macer> had a hard drive going bad
May 20 13:33:21 <Macer> replaced it
May 20 13:33:28 <DocScrutinizer> if however the peripheral _is_ providing 5V to VBUS, you actually will see problems when plugging in too early
May 20 13:33:31 <Macer> rebuilding the raid.. a 2nd hard drive has bad sectors
May 20 13:33:32 <Macer> great :)
May 20 13:33:46 <Macer> nothing it couldn't fix during the rebuild by remapping the bad ones but still
May 20 13:34:08 <Macer> now i have to rma, wait for return, replace the 2nd bad one, send 2nd one out for rma
May 20 13:34:11 <DocScrutinizer> same brand and build of drives?
May 20 13:34:15 <Macer> yes
May 20 13:34:21 <DocScrutinizer> swap all
May 20 13:34:31 <Macer> i can't... have to keep the raid live
May 20 13:34:36 <Macer> i can swap one at a time tho
May 20 13:34:53 <Macer> i replaced one of the WD with a Seagate 3TB
May 20 13:35:04 <Macer> and am working on boxing the first WD to go out :(
May 20 13:35:47 <Hurrian> rebuilding RAIDs? frickin slow on volumes  filled to the brim with content
May 20 13:37:46 <DocScrutinizer> apropos raid: you know (some) HDD will drastically reduce throughput even on *shouting* near the rack? ;-P
May 20 13:38:00 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer, problem could easily be solved by 5v USB power supply and Y-cable
May 20 13:38:21 * Hurrian gets new idea: built-in mintyboost for N900?
May 20 13:39:12 <DocScrutinizer> Hurrian: I don't see how that's solving the problem I described above
May 20 13:39:28 <Macer> Hurrian: i know :(
May 20 13:39:39 <Macer> i've been rebuilding this one for like.... 10 hours so far and it's only 45%
May 20 13:39:43 <DocScrutinizer> au contraire it will exactly create the situation that's problematic
May 20 13:39:56 <Macer> i don't think size matters... it still has to run through the drive and put the parity on it
May 20 13:40:08 <Macer> size/amount of data
May 20 13:41:41 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: for background rebuild that sounds... normal
May 20 13:42:03 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: yeah it is
May 20 13:42:15 <Macer> it's a 3TBx4 raid 5
May 20 13:42:54 <Macer> my 1TBx8 took like.... 24hrs or so to rebuild when i swapped a drive on it
May 20 13:43:36 <Macer> this synology's 128MB of ram is murder tho
May 20 13:43:53 <Macer> i might get a higher end qnap and shove 1TB drives into the synology and give it to my parents :)
May 20 13:46:16 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders if a dd if=raid of=/dev/null will speed up things
May 20 13:46:56 <Macer> haha
May 20 13:47:24 <Macer> no.. it won't ;)
May 20 13:51:01 <jacekowski> 1TB drives are for kids
May 20 13:51:12 <jacekowski> i'm thinking about upgrading my 3TB to 4TB drives
May 20 13:52:32 <DocScrutinizer> I'm waiting for my 'new' laptop with 500G drive ;-D
May 20 14:04:49 <Hurrian> jacekowski, waiting for prices to drop, then the 2TB drives get swapped
May 20 14:24:40 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: I could update h-e-n *if* I had the original pkg. The original pkg though is somewhere on moh's PC (or in nirvana)
May 20 14:33:58 <DocScrutinizer> **VOTE!** http://bit.ly/JmchJM !!
May 20 14:36:33 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: (and btw NFC about packaging and delivery here ;-D )
May 20 14:43:16 <cityLights> is anyone here from spain? which 3G sim should I buy for one week vacation?
May 20 14:46:36 <kent_autistic> any tmo mods in here? please please close this thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84366
May 20 14:48:33 <kent_autistic> ^ another whatsapp thread
May 20 15:31:31 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: ^^^
May 20 15:36:22 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  but, isn't int possible to download sources from package interface? IIRC sources used by autobuilder are there too
May 20 15:37:38 <DocScrutinizer> I guess some sources for sure can get downloaded, but as mentioned before, NFC here. I just know you need to prepare some files for upload, and sign them and whatnot
May 20 15:38:16 <Estel_> no, no signing
May 20 15:38:32 <DocScrutinizer> see? so I suggest *you* do it ;-)
May 20 15:38:36 <Estel_> sign if You want to upload as MAG
May 20 15:38:42 <Estel_> ok, will try :D
May 20 15:38:44 <DocScrutinizer> you're more experienced than me
May 20 15:38:47 <Estel_> but but
May 20 15:38:58 <Estel_> I gaine it while uploading truecrypt
May 20 15:39:30 <DocScrutinizer> I'll happily review the pkg before you upload it
May 20 15:39:37 <DocScrutinizer> or you ping MohammadAG 
May 20 15:40:49 <Estel_> ok
May 20 15:41:12 <Estel_> but but don't expect it very soon, I suxx at providing proper build enviromnent ;)
May 20 15:44:37 <Estel_> = I can upload it only if I'm actually able to build in and dpkg drop proper source packages
May 20 15:45:15 <Estel_> so preparing proper build envo will take a while. Of course I'll send them for review
May 20 15:46:03 <Estel_> ... unless it will turn out to be much easier to bug MAG to just upload fixed version, as he already got build env ;)
May 20 15:47:34 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: ping
May 20 15:48:26 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer, Estel_ original source http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/hostmode-gui/0.3/
May 20 15:48:41 <DocScrutinizer> the source isn't the porblem
May 20 15:49:08 <DocScrutinizer> [2012-05-19 23:32:09] <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/hostmode-gui/0.3/
May 20 15:49:14 <merlin1991> oh :D
May 20 15:50:04 <merlin1991> hm can't find a problem then, what's the change you want todo?
May 20 15:50:24 <DocScrutinizer> ship another booston script with the pkg
May 20 15:51:08 <DocScrutinizer> well, the problem basically is I got no clue how to use SB and the whole upload process
May 20 15:51:49 <merlin1991> that's easy, take the .tar and .dsc from the page, add an entry to debian/changelog add the new booston script, adjust the hashes and version in the dsc and use the webuploader :D
May 20 15:52:02 <DocScrutinizer> and my PC here is basically in EOL maintenance mode
May 20 15:52:24 <DocScrutinizer> o/
May 20 15:52:32 <merlin1991> and I'm pretty sure even in eol mode you can run tar, md5sum and vi ;)
May 20 15:52:40 * DocScrutinizer heads out to enjoy last coffee of his holiday
May 20 16:07:32 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, pong
May 20 16:23:14 <kerio> ls
May 20 16:23:16 <kerio> whoops
May 20 16:24:00 <MohammadAG> mplayer /home/user/porn.mp4
May 20 16:24:03 <MohammadAG> whoops
May 20 16:28:32 <sLumPia> you actually named your porn porn.mp4? pffft...amateur
May 20 16:28:34 <sLumPia> :p
May 20 16:29:52 <kerio> mplayer /home/user/MyDocs/MohammadAG_s_mom.rm
May 20 16:29:57 <kerio> whoops
May 20 16:30:43 <Estel_> I'm going to repeat myself, but most epic typo I remember was done by me - instead of "at least she gave You moral satisfaction" I've written "at least she gave you oral satisfaction"
May 20 16:31:02 <Estel_> in fact it was written in polish, but, moral and oral meaning are same
May 20 16:31:08 <kerio> ~assrage
May 20 16:31:16 <kerio> no, how do you do this
May 20 16:31:28 <Estel_> ~kerio
May 20 16:31:33 <kerio> Estel_: SpeedEvil's ass rage mode beats your typo
May 20 16:31:52 <Estel_> I'm not sure, but, what was it about?
May 20 16:31:54 <kerio> although i'm not sure if it was intended
May 20 16:32:00 <kerio> he meant mass storage
May 20 16:32:05 <kerio> but he skipped m and sto
May 20 16:32:19 <Estel_> sounds like intended
May 20 16:32:27 <kerio> still
May 20 16:33:13 <Estel_> MohammadAG,  could You please push to repos hen with just boosted version number AND new booston script by DocScrutinizer ?
May 20 16:33:52 <Estel_> this booston was well tested, it's year old and made many people happy. unfort. only those reading tmo, cause it's not in repos
May 20 17:08:50 <MrPingu_> Yeah, i missed that script :P
May 20 17:09:34 <MrPingu_> I think I should thank you, for pointing to that script...
May 20 17:32:27 <Estel_> MrPingu_,  exactly. Even involved people could miss it
May 20 17:33:28 <Estel_> merlin1991,  You said that re-building isn't necessary for such small change?
May 20 17:33:39 <Estel_> just adjust hashes manually?
May 20 17:34:01 <merlin1991> Estel_: if you know what debhelper does you don't ever need to "build"  a sourcepackage :D
May 20 17:34:42 <merlin1991> and in this case you even have all the ingredients ready so adjust the changelog, boostscript and hashes and you're good to go
May 20 17:34:49 <Estel_> I'm pretty green on all of this packaging/autobuilder stuff
May 20 17:35:06 <Estel_> ok, will do that. Why not? what  c o u l d   go wrong? :P
May 20 17:35:32 <Estel_> but, I got some things on my device, that I'm sure would make life of other people easier
May 20 17:35:33 <merlin1991> well it's quite easy, the autobuilder expects the source in a certain format, if you keep it that way it doesn't matter how you've built your sourcepackage :D
May 20 17:35:56 <Estel_> mainly things containing of sh scripts sets + .desktop, icons etc
May 20 17:36:11 <merlin1991> only building the actual .debs is a bit harder though even that can be done without sb (if there are no arm binaries needed)
May 20 17:36:22 <Estel_> some made from scratch, some based on work of others. Never uploaded to repos. I would like to put them there
May 20 17:36:45 <Estel_> You say there is easy way to do that without build enfiromnent?
May 20 17:36:49 <Estel_> envi*
May 20 17:37:21 <Estel_> as for .debs it can be done via dpkg-build, yep?
May 20 17:37:40 <Estel_> or smth like that. I'm rather interested about what You've said about repositories
May 20 17:38:28 <Estel_> any easy way to transform my "programs" containing just few sh scripts, icon .desktop and, sometimes, sudoers, into working package in repo?
May 20 17:38:44 <merlin1991> sure
May 20 17:39:01 <merlin1991> though it's easier with the scratchbox at hand since you can test things :D
May 20 17:39:38 <Estel_> of course, but don't know why I always got something with higher priority than setting scratchbox properly :/
May 20 17:39:48 <Estel_> always promising myself that I'll do it one day
May 20 17:39:57 <lokimotive> hey
May 20 17:40:18 <Estel_> hi lokimotive 
May 20 17:40:56 <Estel_> so, merlin1991, sorry for bothering You with questions, but I fail to get how to transform my "bunch of files" into tars as expected by autobuilder
May 20 17:41:04 <Estel_> I understand .desc and hashes
May 20 17:41:19 <Estel_> changelog etc
May 20 17:41:25 <merlin1991> inside the tar.gz there is a folder debian
May 20 17:41:30 <merlin1991> which has a "rules" file
May 20 17:41:35 <merlin1991> this one is invoked by the builder
May 20 17:42:10 <Estel_> ok, so basically I need to grab some random source package from repos, check structure
May 20 17:42:17 <merlin1991> yea
May 20 17:42:24 <Estel_> and reversee-enginer it to prepare mine in same way
May 20 17:42:29 <Estel_> thanks a lot
May 20 17:42:49 <merlin1991> also if there are more then lets say 30 lines in the rules file pick another one :D
May 20 17:43:11 <Estel_> thought about it but never tried, for reasons unknown I thought it's more complicated
May 20 17:43:26 <merlin1991> a good example is this: rules file https://gitorious.org/~merlin1991/quassel/quassel2go-harmattan/blobs/master/debian/rules
May 20 17:43:40 <merlin1991> and a .install file to say which files to have in the .deb https://gitorious.org/~merlin1991/quassel/quassel2go-harmattan/blobs/master/debian/quassel2go.install
May 20 17:44:13 <Estel_> thanks a lot again, will check them
May 20 17:44:15 <merlin1991> you basically can drop everything but the %: step :D
May 20 17:44:26 <merlin1991> (in the rules file)
May 20 17:45:52 <Estel_> so all of those scare make options are irrelevant in my case... I get it
May 20 17:46:13 <merlin1991> yeah it's just for my package :D
May 20 17:46:42 <Estel_> noobish noob mode question - %:  step is just line after it, or to the end of file?
May 20 17:47:06 <merlin1991> it's a makefile
May 20 17:47:22 <merlin1991> thus of it goes from %: untill the first empty newline ;)
May 20 17:47:22 <Estel_> i.e. it end @ dh --buildsystem...
May 20 17:48:12 <Estel_> I see, so override_dh also doesnt apply here
May 20 17:48:45 <merlin1991> yep
May 20 17:48:56 <merlin1991> keep in mind you need the debian/control file aswell
May 20 17:49:10 <Estel_> of course
May 20 17:49:30 <trumee> I understand qt-components are available in CSSU. Does it mean i can use "import com.nokia.meego 1.0"   in qml?
May 20 17:49:41 <merlin1991> trumee: nope
May 20 17:49:53 <merlin1991> unless you add the qt-components package from extras-devel
May 20 17:50:07 <merlin1991> it provides the harmattan components aswell afaik
May 20 17:50:29 <trumee> merlin1991: i want to use the PageStackWindow. Otherwise creating severe pages will be a struggle
May 20 17:50:45 <trumee> s/severe/several
May 20 17:52:45 <Estel_> ok, I'm starting to mess with all of this by doing trivial nobrainer foolproof updating of HEN - all hostmode users can start to fear already ;)
May 20 18:00:35 <lokimotive> is it possible to control the status led on the n900 via dbus?
May 20 18:01:09 <lokimotive> i only found this: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS#dbus-send-activate-led but the command doesn't seem to work
May 20 18:01:29 <lokimotive> i get no error - it just does nothing
May 20 18:03:07 <Estel_> merlin1991,  pgp signature etc in .dsc file doesn't matter?
May 20 18:03:26 <merlin1991> yep you can upload unsinged packages aswell
May 20 18:03:44 <Estel_> so for: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/h/hostmode-gui/hostmode-gui_0.3.dsc
May 20 18:03:56 <Estel_> I can delete parts related to pgp?
May 20 18:04:14 <merlin1991> I'm not 100% sure but I think so
May 20 18:04:59 <Estel_> will compare that to truecrypt .dsc and adjust accordingly
May 20 18:19:34 <Venemo> hey guys
May 20 18:19:37 <Venemo> Estel_: ping
May 20 18:20:01 <Estel_> Venemo,  pong
May 20 18:20:13 <Venemo> what's up Estel_ ? :)
May 20 18:20:40 * Estel_ is working on uploading update to hostmode
May 20 18:21:02 <Estel_> but, I'm sure You're pinged me on purpose, so, lets go straight to the merit :)
May 20 18:21:25 <Venemo> I was just looking for someone to chat with, and your name popped into my head :P
May 20 18:21:35 <Venemo> an a more serious note though
May 20 18:21:47 <Venemo> do you know how I can apply for the new device program?
May 20 18:22:20 <Estel_> it depends on which category
May 20 18:23:11 <Venemo> well, I haven't found details on any of them yet
May 20 18:25:20 <Estel_> community awards - as recognition for past deeds. New Council will decide winners, only self-nominations, without reasoning (people deserving one are known enough to the Council)
May 20 18:25:34 <Estel_> coding competition - search for approriate thread on tmo
May 20 18:26:37 <Estel_> Nokia Store and QT5 categories (total of 2) - see " '12 device program" thread in tmo, qgil is managing those
May 20 18:29:22 <Venemo> yep, I'm reading both threads
May 20 18:29:26 <Venemo> no clear info on entering
May 20 18:31:52 <Venemo> hrm
May 20 18:32:13 <Venemo> I also see that there's been a lot going on in TMO since last time I checked
May 20 18:34:29 <Estel_> qt and nokia store not defined yet, qgil is to start them soon
May 20 18:34:46 <Estel_> cc same, but managed by cc team (who?)
May 20 18:35:21 <Estel_> community awards - I proposed to start receiving submittions now, as new council will decide, not needed to wait with starting
May 20 18:35:27 <Estel_> yet, no one answered ;)
May 20 18:36:04 <Venemo> mmhm
May 20 18:36:12 <Venemo> who's the council?
May 20 18:36:22 <Venemo> I've been kinda out of the loop for a long time
May 20 18:36:38 <Estel_> merlin1991,  could You please link me (or pastebin) to any .dsc file of maemo package *not* from maemo.org package interface? It seems that every from "source" is tagged via pg internally in autobuilder
May 20 18:37:18 <Estel_> I'm sure I haventb signed one for truecrypt, just sent them via scp using my public keys, yet, result is same as with hen .dsc
May 20 18:37:32 <Estel_> I'm sure You have one from Your projects ;)
May 20 18:38:01 <Estel_> Venemo,  next Council not decided, we're having election now, from 16th may to 23th may
May 20 18:38:16 <Venemo> ah
May 20 18:38:24 <Venemo> so that's why got a mail about voting on them?
May 20 18:38:42 <Estel_> well, mail was quite self-explanatory :P
May 20 18:38:44 <Estel_> yea
May 20 18:38:57 <Estel_> "them" as "them" - I'm also candidate ;)
May 20 18:39:56 <Venemo> I see
May 20 18:44:13 <Venemo> ok, you've got a vote :P
May 20 18:45:24 <Estel_> thanks ;)
May 20 18:46:58 <merlin1991> Estel_: http://paste.debian.net/170306/
May 20 18:47:48 <Estel_> thanks a lot. Why the hell hen .dsc got same file hashed 2 times
May 20 18:47:59 <Estel_> with different sums? 0_o
May 20 18:48:14 <merlin1991> huh?
May 20 18:48:19 <Estel_> so for: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/h/hostmode-gui/hostmode-gui_0.3.dsc
May 20 18:48:51 <Estel_> erm, I think I answered myself
May 20 18:48:58 <Estel_> first time it's sha1 sum
May 20 18:49:03 <Estel_> later, md5sum
May 20 18:49:06 <merlin1991> yea :D
May 20 18:49:10 <Estel_> I can skip sha1, yep?
May 20 18:49:25 <merlin1991> be happy on ubuntu they even have a sha256 sum additionally xD
May 20 18:49:35 <merlin1991> just do both
May 20 18:49:38 <merlin1991> better be safe
May 20 18:50:05 <Estel_> ok, should be easy from N900 eh?
May 20 18:50:15 <Estel_> I'm doing all on device :P
May 20 18:50:46 <Estel_> md5 sum is trivial, I must just find something to sha1
May 20 18:50:56 <Estel_> btw Your .dsc doesn't contain sha1 :P
May 20 18:51:03 <merlin1991> :D
May 20 18:51:06 <merlin1991> sha1sum?
May 20 18:51:10 <Estel_> lol
May 20 18:51:17 <Estel_> thanks ;)
May 20 18:51:42 <Estel_> don't You think it's sad that after two years (latest hen update) it's done via me? :P
May 20 18:51:52 <Estel_> for me it's great, I'm gaining experience
May 20 18:52:29 <Estel_> but imagine inasion of such noobs on repos when I document uploading to repos in a way that finally will be understandable
May 20 18:52:37 <Estel_> devel will become real -devel again
May 20 18:53:28 <Estel_> don't enter without forcefield and small arsenal :P
May 20 18:53:49 <Venemo> Estel_: what do you mean? -devel has always been like that
May 20 18:54:19 <Estel_> not necessary true
May 20 18:54:41 <Estel_> very average joe have -devel enabled now, if not just because many stable packages are stuck there
May 20 18:54:51 <Estel_> due to absent maintainers, lack of votes or whatsnot
May 20 18:55:01 <Venemo> yep
May 20 18:55:07 <Venemo> that was the case a year ago too
May 20 18:56:51 <Venemo> at some point, the devs didn't really feel like pushing their apps to extras for that very reason.
May 20 18:57:06 <Venemo> if everyone has -devel enabled, why bother with that voting thing anyway?
May 20 19:09:28 <RST38h> Venemo: Because it makes you feel legit ? :)
May 20 19:10:02 <Venemo> RST38h: yep, I agree, I was just sayin what those guys were thinking
May 20 19:10:07 <RST38h> Venemo: Because there may still be a few old-guard policy-making fans who LOVE creating policies for people and insisting that everyone obeys?
May 20 19:11:55 <Venemo> well, this reminds me that I should've pushed Puzzle Master 2.0 to the Maemo 5 repos
May 20 19:12:04 <Venemo> but I don't have an N900 to test it
May 20 19:13:17 <Venemo> meh
May 20 19:15:54 <Venemo> I'm not pushing untested software
May 20 19:21:41 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  it was necessary to remove i2c line from boostoff? Why You haven't mentioned that?
May 20 19:22:12 <Estel_> any risk was involved in using boostoff *without* removing that line in conjuction with new booston
May 20 19:22:13 <Estel_> ?
May 20 19:22:22 <DocScrutinizer> no
May 20 19:22:42 <DocScrutinizer> just useless double reset of charger chip
May 20 19:23:50 <DocScrutinizer> I published that improved booston to be compatible with former stuff, so it actually is. Doesn't mean it's optimal way to integrate it
May 20 19:25:45 <DocScrutinizer> in fact I was thinking about en even niftier setup where booston and boostoff are hardlinks (or symlinks) to same file, and you'd need no boostoff script at all. But I was too lazy and didn't want to "brag" with over-sophisticated stuff
May 20 19:26:09 <Estel_> I see
May 20 19:26:33 <Estel_> I see
May 20 19:26:37 <Estel_> well, funny thing. No one uploaded it for half year, then, I uploaded it with mag independently
May 20 19:26:56 <Estel_> fortunatelly, he made higher version number, so autobuilder wont vomit on us
May 20 19:27:00 <DocScrutinizer> I asked you to ask for a review
May 20 19:27:27 <Estel_> yea, but I got nothing to review, as merlin teached me to do it without building actual package
May 20 19:27:40 <DocScrutinizer> quite obviously this eview was meant to happen _before_ upload to repo
May 20 19:27:47 <Estel_> just grabbing current sources, replacing booston, adjusting version number, changelog and hashes
May 20 19:27:55 <Estel_> ;)
May 20 19:28:23 <Estel_> entirely true. I just wasn't sure what is to review here, Your own new booston?
May 20 19:28:36 <DocScrutinizer> the whole package
May 20 19:28:39 <Estel_> if I would do it with building package, I would surely sent it
May 20 19:28:56 <Estel_> no package in my case, unnecessary for uploading, even if it sounds crazy
May 20 19:29:02 <DocScrutinizer> beginning with "my own" booston which you might have picked an old version
May 20 19:29:09 <DocScrutinizer> to version number
May 20 19:29:12 <DocScrutinizer> to changelog
May 20 19:29:21 <Estel_> no, no, just latest published
May 20 19:29:25 <Estel_> but I got the point
May 20 19:29:46 <Estel_> but I get Your point*
May 20 19:31:03 <Estel_> well, if You would like someone to upload something without any respect to risk management, You can always count on me ;)
May 20 19:31:25 <DocScrutinizer> on reviewing changelog I would've recalled the boostoff stuff
May 20 19:34:23 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders if the bug with enabled --filebox is still unfixed
May 20 19:34:38 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: ^^^
May 20 19:36:10 <teotwaki_> Jaffa: around?
May 20 19:36:27 <DocScrutinizer> oh dang, and we should've added a postinstall to edit mce.ini to include the PatternVBoost
May 20 19:37:13 <Jaffa> teotwaki_: Yup
May 20 19:37:23 <DocScrutinizer> hi Jaffa 
May 20 19:37:36 <teotwaki_> Jaffa: can I pick your brain regarding some software architecture questions?
May 20 19:37:41 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: o/
May 20 19:37:44 <Jaffa> teotwaki_: Sure
May 20 19:38:12 <Jaffa> teotwaki_: Travelling tomorrow so about to go and spend time with the missus. Would email conversation be OK?
May 20 19:38:13 <teotwaki_> ok, so, I use ZMQ to provide IPC (in a kind of erlang-messaging fashion)
May 20 19:38:15 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: you ever even noticed the indicator pattern that booston comes with now?
May 20 19:38:24 <Jaffa> teotwaki_: Shiny
May 20 19:38:36 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  of course
May 20 19:38:38 <teotwaki_> Jaffa: sure, I'll send you an email tomorrow then
May 20 19:38:44 <Jaffa> teotwaki_: That OK?
May 20 19:38:59 <teotwaki_> yeah, no worries, not on a deadline or anything, go have fun :)
May 20 19:39:14 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: so how are users updating to new h-e-n supposed to get to know about, and handle/install it?
May 20 19:39:47 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: we at very least should've mentioned the needed steps in changelog
May 20 19:39:50 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  via changelog ;)
May 20 19:40:09 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: though I prefer a postinstall script with a few sed cmds
May 20 19:40:10 <Estel_> but why not to do this postinst?
May 20 19:40:21 <DocScrutinizer> you're too slow ;-P
May 20 19:40:29 <Estel_> MohammadAG,  package haven't gone thorough autobuilder anyway
May 20 19:40:34 <Estel_> :P
May 20 19:40:39 <Estel_> no update yet
May 20 19:40:48 <Estel_> we're still @ status quo
May 20 19:40:55 <Estel_> not queyed even
May 20 19:41:26 <Estel_> autobuilder just told both of us to GTFO, or, in fact, haven't told anything, nor accepted updates
May 20 19:41:36 <MohammadAG> mine got through and built fine
May 20 19:41:39 <MohammadAG> yours, didn't
May 20 19:42:31 <Estel_> oh. You've said otherwise a minute ago ;)
May 20 19:42:46 <Estel_> well, probably I uploaded lower version after Your higher
May 20 19:42:58 <Estel_> 0.3-1 vs 0.4-1
May 20 19:43:13 <Estel_> vs old 0.3 in repos
May 20 19:44:18 <Estel_> MohammadAG,  could You please zerobin me a proper .changelog?
May 20 19:45:05 <Estel_> I'm going to scavenge it for edu purposes that will result in me uploading some stuff that aren't in repos
May 20 19:45:36 <Estel_> that people are bugging me to do for ages, and I was never desperate enough to install scratchbox properly ;)
May 20 19:45:48 <Estel_> I mean not changelog from inside /debian
May 20 19:45:56 <Estel_> but changelog as per autobuilder needs
May 20 19:52:52 <Estel_> merlin1991,  ^ above request also apply to You, if You could
May 20 19:53:22 <Estel_> without it, ham/fapman doesn't show changelog, and changelog can't be pulled from sources in package interface
May 20 19:53:28 <merlin1991> Estel_: changelog as per autobuilder needs is the changelog in debian/
May 20 20:15:11 <MrPingu_> Whats the best solution to create a high quality screencast of N900 screen?
May 20 20:17:42 <Estel_> merlin1991,  thanks a lot
May 20 20:18:10 <MrPingu_> My intention is to record a good video on cleven, faircrack, wifite and aircrack-ng. Yet I have no idea how I should capture the screen... 
May 20 20:18:49 <Kilroo> Hook up the TV-out cable to your DVR?
May 20 20:18:57 <Estel_> very funny
May 20 20:18:58 <Kilroo> ...I have no idea.
May 20 20:19:09 <merlin1991> just use gstreamer to sink it?
May 20 20:19:38 <Estel_> I remember someone asked about it ages ago and got working, satisfying answer... yet can' remember it, something with gstreamer sink
May 20 20:19:44 <Estel_> oh, this :D
May 20 20:19:49 <merlin1991> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Capture_movie_directly_from_N9/N950_screen#Merlin1991_-_package_name_and_repository_for_gst-launch
May 20 20:21:05 <Estel_> who remember which file I need to delete, in order to make N900's menu re-arange itself alphabeically?
May 20 20:21:14 <Estel_> alphabetically*
May 20 20:22:08 <MrPingu_> that's harmattan stuff?
May 20 20:22:20 <merlin1991> applys to maemo5 aswell
May 20 20:24:04 <MrPingu_> oh I see, I am on device missed the command in the IRClog,  Im sorry
May 20 20:25:49 <MrPingu_> How does it affect performance?
May 20 20:26:14 <merlin1991> well if you don't save to an sd it probably is goign to be quite laggish
May 20 20:27:35 <MrPingu_> Hmm I have swap on sd
May 20 20:28:10 <MrPingu_> Best way is to enable swap on emmc, write movie to sd and do my thing...
May 20 20:28:15 <DocScrutinizer> iirc cpu load applet comes with screenshot and screencast
May 20 20:28:28 <Sicelo> MrPingu_: also have a look at load-applet .. has a screencast option
May 20 20:28:34 <Sicelo> :P
May 20 20:28:42 <Sicelo> ah, DocScrutinizer beat me to it ;)
May 20 20:28:43 <DocScrutinizer> though it often been more jerky than anything else for me
May 20 20:29:17 <MrPingu_> Well I thought it didn't work, from what google told me
May 20 20:29:41 <MrPingu_> I think will go the gstreamer way
May 20 20:30:12 <DocScrutinizer> I think the AV-cable approach & VCR/DVR is a good one
May 20 20:31:26 <DocScrutinizer> VDR even
May 20 20:34:13 <MrPingu> Really, sorry if you see an flying AP
May 20 20:34:52 <MrPingu> The damn thing just crashed again, as always...
May 20 20:35:55 <Estel_> I just wonder how much hassle would it take to update recaller, allowing it to record in ogg
May 20 20:36:27 <Estel_> not only aac, wav and flac (flac doesn't work for me and never have been - I'm trying to figure out now why)
May 20 20:36:31 <MrPingu> DVR, seems a good one.  However have to check if thing has a AV in...
May 20 20:37:02 <Estel_> although keep in mind that Your video will be @ pal resolution at best
May 20 20:37:10 <Estel_> = little blurred
May 20 20:37:34 <Estel_> with too much contrast etc
May 20 20:37:41 <Estel_> I would do gstreamer way
May 20 20:38:32 <MrPingu> Probably, as I can be nearer to the AP for better hacking results ;)
May 20 20:38:40 <Estel_> ;)
May 20 20:39:03 <Estel_> haven't You though about spending 30$ on wrt54gl router?
May 20 20:39:34 <Estel_> linux powered, solid as nothing I've seen...
May 20 20:40:00 <MrPingu> I'm forced to stay with the one of my provider, which is unfortunately modem+router =(
May 20 20:40:01 <Estel_> moddable - people are making helis, airplanes, rc cars and ehatsnot using it :P
May 20 20:40:31 <Estel_> I see. I was in such situation, so I used modem and my router connected to it's router
May 20 20:40:40 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: I'd *really* *really* appreciate recaller fixed to not go apeshit when storage low. It simply never stops notification of "ongoing record"
May 20 20:40:43 <Estel_> won't heko if their router crashes, though
May 20 20:40:58 <DocScrutinizer> also sometimes it actually forgets to stop recording at end of call
May 20 20:41:09 <DocScrutinizer> resulting in GB of .wav
May 20 20:41:22 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  beyond my skills, I'm just thinking about interesting some talented dev to look at it
May 20 20:41:44 <DocScrutinizer> I almost did already, as it's so annoying
May 20 20:41:53 <DocScrutinizer> *almost* :-P
May 20 20:42:08 <Estel_> :P who You've bugged? or tried Yourself?
May 20 20:42:11 <MrPingu> The end of the summer we should get a direct fiber 120mb connection :) So then I start looking for a good router and it seems you already suggested me a nice one ;) 
May 20 20:42:36 <Estel_> MrPingu,  it's great one, although some might argue that it's old
May 20 20:42:41 <Estel_> I mean, no n
May 20 20:42:47 <Estel_> a/b/g
May 20 20:42:57 <Estel_> no usb and such fancy stuff
May 20 20:43:27 <MrPingu> ah don't need usb, our printer as direct LAN ;)
May 20 20:43:33 <MrPingu> *has
May 20 20:43:34 <Estel_> although, there are more recent ones using same custom linuxes (Openwrt for max powa or tomato for ease and hassle-free usage)
May 20 20:43:41 <Estel_> nice
May 20 20:44:03 <Estel_> if You don't need wireless N, You won't ever need anything more than wrt54gl
May 20 20:44:30 <DocScrutinizer> MrPingu: you _always_ can disable WLAN of such modem-router things
May 20 20:44:31 <MrPingu> My dad was sick of our inkjet, so one day he came home with an A3 laserprinter
May 20 20:44:38 <Estel_> just be arefull with wrt54gs and wrt54g - some of them are as reliable, and some castrated, depends on serial number
May 20 20:44:42 <DocScrutinizer> then hook up decent AP to ethernet
May 20 20:45:08 <MrPingu> Well it's actually the whole modem that crashes
May 20 20:45:15 <teotwaki_> DocScrutinizer: if the wav recording is done properly, it should only use 8KB/s, or 29MB/hour.
May 20 20:45:17 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  suggested same thing, although won't help if first ap crashes as whole
May 20 20:45:23 <MrPingu> very annoying, fif you are calling
May 20 20:45:31 <DocScrutinizer> teotwaki_: fine
May 20 20:45:53 <Estel_> teotwaki,  fine, but I like to use recaller for other things than calls recording too
May 20 20:46:00 <Estel_> and, btw, it's not done right
May 20 20:46:07 <MrPingu> Estel_ that's what I meant
May 20 20:46:10 <DocScrutinizer> teotwaki_: after 4 days that's >1GB
May 20 20:46:10 <Estel_> it's jjust plan waw without cutting frequency etc
May 20 20:46:31 <Estel_> I want ogg for recording from fm radio
May 20 20:46:31 <teotwaki_> DocScrutinizer: FYI, phone recording shouldn't, for most intents and purposes, be done at anything else than 8-bit 8kHz.
May 20 20:46:50 <DocScrutinizer> tell that an EE ;-P
May 20 20:46:53 <Estel_> ^agree, yet recaller doesn't "know" that
May 20 20:47:19 <DocScrutinizer> though actually for the 8bit I tend to disagree
May 20 20:47:20 <teotwaki_> good point -- VoIP engineer reflexes.
May 20 20:47:24 <MrPingu> Anyway hope to do that cleven, faircrack thingy to do very soon, and kill the useless questions in these threads forever :)
May 20 20:47:47 <Estel_> ^agree, yet recaller doesn't "know" that
May 20 20:47:58 <Estel_> MrPingu,  good try, but it will raise even more questions
May 20 20:48:35 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: you recently installed an echo? ;-)
May 20 20:48:41 <Estel_> noobs of facepalm level MORE would try to touch it as "seen on tv", because they haven't understood it without pictures
May 20 20:48:48 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  :P
May 20 20:49:09 <Estel_> MrPingu,  they will fa8l even with direct video, and start asking like
May 20 20:49:23 <Estel_> "itsa doesn t u work me could u hlp?"
May 20 20:49:23 <teotwaki_> faeightl?
May 20 20:49:45 <MrPingu> You might have a point... 
May 20 20:49:50 <Estel_> "itsa doesn t u work me could u hlp?"
May 20 20:50:04 <Estel_> sry
May 20 20:50:05 <DocScrutinizer> yay
May 20 20:50:22 <Estel_> I mean that such videos is good thing to have talking seriously
May 20 20:50:26 <Estel_> don't get discouraged
May 20 20:50:47 <Estel_> I was half-serious, I mean I'm sure it will happen, but, it's not a reason to sop doing such video
May 20 20:50:57 <Estel_> at least some people will benefit from it
May 20 20:50:59 <DocScrutinizer> **VOTE!** http://bit.ly/JmchJM
May 20 20:51:12 <MohammadAG> is that automated or what ^
May 20 20:51:22 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  is flac working for You in recaller?
May 20 20:51:26 <DocScrutinizer> yep, I'm completely automated
May 20 20:51:39 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: can't recall
May 20 20:51:41 <DocScrutinizer> prolly not
May 20 20:51:55 <DocScrutinizer> otherwise I guess I'd use it
May 20 20:52:12 <Estel_> muwt be just some issue with path where it expects flac
May 20 20:52:25 * Estel_ will try to find that out
May 20 20:52:36 <MrPingu> I was definitely to do a video, just for show off ;)
May 20 20:53:13 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer is also living bash parser - yesterday he defined if script if ash or bash compliant for me + found invalid declaration inside
May 20 20:53:15 <MrPingu> wifite2 works nicely on N900 too =)
May 20 20:53:50 <Estel_> actually, karam recently ported some nice tools like mdk2
May 20 20:54:05 <Estel_> but, I'm always afraid to install things from him
May 20 20:54:27 <MrPingu> MDK3 ^^
May 20 20:54:38 <Estel_> in small part, because he is very, very *not* carefull, uploading stuff with broken dependencies and fixing it with 547855 updates
May 20 20:54:47 <Estel_> (although at the end, it always works ok)
May 20 20:55:04 <MrPingu> Do you want my compiled binary? :P
May 20 20:55:11 <Estel_> and, in most part, I think that I'm always afraid he's going to revenge for all battery/speedpatch mocking
May 20 20:55:21 <Estel_> by inserting some nasty thing insie package :P
May 20 20:55:27 <Estel_> I know, silly
May 20 20:55:41 <MrPingu> Yeah but batterypatch crap is just uhm let's say crap
May 20 20:55:55 <Estel_> but I don't have time to audit his sources line by line and most of his audience isn't capable of doing it either, for noobiness reasons
May 20 20:56:24 <Estel_> BTW, disclaimer, my thoughts about inserting nasty things was just without reasons
May 20 20:56:30 <MrPingu> I know the feeling, I am always a bit scared to install his "stuff" too
May 20 20:56:35 <Estel_> he seems to be nice guy for all purposes other than *patch
May 20 20:56:45 <Estel_> hehe, I see You understand
May 20 20:57:00 <Estel_> and I want Your binary, of course :)
May 20 20:57:08 <MrPingu> That's why I still have my own compiled mdk3 binary instead of the one from the repos :P
May 20 20:57:16 <Estel_> any fixes or regressions vs karam's one?
May 20 20:57:21 <Estel_> hehe
May 20 20:57:58 <MrPingu> I just grabbed the latest sources from mdk3 homepage and compiled it in SB
May 20 20:58:12 <Estel_> and it works fine, I suppose?
May 20 20:58:18 <MrPingu> Yep :)
May 20 20:58:38 <Estel_> it's usefull for routers with rate limiting vs wps reaver
May 20 20:58:49 <teotwaki_> MohammadAG & DocScrutinizer: ever looked at this: http://www.iphase.com/products/product.cfm/PCI%20Express/44 ?
May 20 20:58:57 <Estel_> if You detect rate limiting, you can wait or force router to reboo
May 20 20:59:13 <Estel_> also, some liveboxes (sagem things) got permanent rate limiting
May 20 20:59:19 <Estel_> persisting until next reboot
May 20 20:59:32 <MrPingu> haha yeah mdk3 is really stresstesting of AP :P
May 20 20:59:40 <teotwaki_> Estel_: french?
May 20 20:59:56 <Estel_> forcing them to do so by creating zillions of fake clients etc is only way then, unles You want o break pentesting and do impossible (for attacker) thing like pulling plug
May 20 21:00:12 <Estel_> teotwaki,  no, at least me. Livebox, yes, it's french
May 20 21:00:17 <Estel_> but also used in Plland
May 20 21:00:20 <Estel_> Poland*
May 20 21:00:30 <teotwaki_> really? Interesting? By Orange/Wanadoo?
May 20 21:00:33 <MrPingu> My grandparents have a livebox too
May 20 21:00:49 <MrPingu> I live in the Netherlands BTW
May 20 21:01:00 <teotwaki_> Shame you'll never get your hands on a freebox :P
May 20 21:01:06 <Estel_> Orange/Telekomunikacja Polska SA :P
May 20 21:01:14 <Estel_> our "national" provider
May 20 21:01:22 <Estel_> in fact, national/private hybride
May 20 21:01:30 <Estel_> monopolyst, sort of
May 20 21:01:33 <DocScrutinizer> teotwaki_: how's this relevant for my living room?
May 20 21:02:03 <Estel_> teotwaki,  I don't want to. Livebox is worse router on earth
May 20 21:02:10 <Estel_> ALL it's incarnations
May 20 21:02:19 <teotwaki_> Estel_: and Freebox is one of the best ;)
May 20 21:02:28 <teotwaki_> DocScrutinizer: makes your network card capable of running 100% real-time FFT or word analysis on voip streams.
May 20 21:02:42 <Estel_> is it capable of running OpenWRT?
May 20 21:02:51 <DocScrutinizer> errr wut, a FDDI concentrator?
May 20 21:02:55 <teotwaki_> Estel_: nope
May 20 21:03:07 <Estel_> so it isn't one of bect ;)
May 20 21:03:14 <Estel_> it's like comparing iphone to N900
May 20 21:03:23 <teotwaki_> Estel_: nope, it's not.
May 20 21:03:30 <Estel_> anything with locked, closed firmware is of no interest to me
May 20 21:03:32 <teotwaki_> DocScrutinizer: we bought a couple at work, initially to off-load part of the VoIP work from the CPU, directly onto the network card, but now, we're using it more to do "anger detection".
May 20 21:03:58 <teotwaki_> Estel_: it's not closed, runs a full Linux stack, with published sources, and if you ask the right people, they give you the way to load your own.
May 20 21:04:24 <Estel_> so it is capable of running openwrt
May 20 21:04:34 <teotwaki_> yeah, but you most probably wouldn't want to.
May 20 21:04:52 <Estel_> probably right
May 20 21:05:20 <Estel_> unless You want to do like with arch linux on desktop (set up only needed tools fom scratch)
May 20 21:05:51 <Estel_> but I'm sure You don't get it from Orange, yes?;)
May 20 21:05:53 <teotwaki_> I run a very low-power version of our VoIP server on it, so I can program some ccxml/vxml logic into my phone line.
May 20 21:06:02 <teotwaki_> only from the Free ISP.
May 20 21:06:06 <Estel_> wonderful
May 20 21:06:12 <Estel_> sounds great
May 20 21:06:38 <Estel_> initially I though You're talking about some livebox successor, lol
May 20 21:07:23 <teotwaki_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebox#V6_generation.2C_Freebox_Revolution
May 20 21:07:45 <Estel_> what is this Free ISP?
May 20 21:08:21 <Estel_> ok got answer myself
May 20 21:09:40 <MrPingu> Estel_ Aapo uploaded gcompris to devel, you might be interested? ( I read that somewhere)
May 20 21:10:42 <Estel_> yea, I asked him to update it :)
May 20 21:10:51 <Estel_> he was so kind to take it on himself
May 20 21:11:10 <Estel_> actually I've helped him to track down some issues
May 20 21:11:45 <Estel_> ohp, it reminds me that painting electrical schematics doesn't work due to some lacking file
May 20 21:11:57 <Estel_> You can paint, but they wont work (simulate)
May 20 21:12:01 <MrPingu> ;)
May 20 21:12:03 <Estel_> must report it to him
May 20 21:12:42 <Estel_> for some reasons it works zillion times faster than same gcompris via easy debian
May 20 21:12:51 <Estel_> at least initial startup
May 20 21:18:45 <MrPingu_> Yeah, crash #2
May 20 21:19:06 <MrPingu_> Well semi-crash, only wlan crashed, actually
May 20 21:22:28 <MrPingu_> Going to say good night!
May 20 21:22:42 <MrPingu_> Ciao
May 20 21:22:45 <Estel_> goodnight!
May 20 21:22:46 <DocScrutinizer> MrPingu_: one thing for dreaming:
May 20 21:23:05 <DocScrutinizer> I found _many_ wlan-modem-routers crash on WPA
May 20 21:23:32 <MrPingu_> I won't downgrade to WEP for sure
May 20 21:23:38 <Estel_> ;)
May 20 21:23:47 <DocScrutinizer> maybe if you switch off WLAN, your modem runs stable
May 20 21:24:10 <Estel_> + using router, like we mentioned, as ethernet client
May 20 21:24:21 <DocScrutinizer> yup
May 20 21:24:25 <DocScrutinizer> plus proper AP
May 20 21:24:36 <MrPingu_> yeah, thanks :)
May 20 21:24:41 <DocScrutinizer> g'nite
May 20 21:24:46 <MohammadAG> I need javispedro
May 20 21:24:53 <Estel_> for what?
May 20 21:24:56 <MohammadAG> teotwaki, nope, no idea what it is even :p
May 20 21:25:05 <DocScrutinizer> well, dunno if javispedro needs you ;-P
May 20 21:25:08 <MohammadAG> Estel_, making a video widget for MTF
May 20 21:25:15 <MrPingu_> Btw already busted a "intruder" when router was at wep some years ago :o
May 20 21:25:15 <MohammadAG> for Sociality youtube playback
May 20 21:25:22 <MohammadAG> the UI is a 100% clone of the internal player
May 20 21:25:32 <MohammadAG> but I need help with painting the colorkey
May 20 21:25:37 <Estel_> MrPingu_,  You could make him upside down net
May 20 21:25:42 <Estel_> or kitty network
May 20 21:25:59 <DocScrutinizer> I plan to set up a honeypot WEP
May 20 21:26:05 <Estel_> :P
May 20 21:26:14 <Estel_> and collect credit's card numers
May 20 21:26:15 <MohammadAG> also I need to know how to detect that a swipe started
May 20 21:26:50 <MrPingu_> I doubled security, WPA2 only (turned of mixed, disables some device), Hidden SSID, mac filtering
May 20 21:27:12 <DocScrutinizer> dang, you'd think a H-E-N update would cause more noise
May 20 21:27:21 <teotwaki_> MrPingu_: don't bother with mac filtering
May 20 21:27:21 <Estel_> it's funny how many noobs are filtered out just by using hidden network
May 20 21:27:32 <Estel_> teotwaki,  cant agree
May 20 21:27:32 <teotwaki_> MrPingu_: it's more hassle than it's worth (which is: zilch)
May 20 21:27:36 <DocScrutinizer> hidden SSID is BS
May 20 21:27:53 <Estel_> it is BS yet super effective against script kiddies
May 20 21:27:54 <teotwaki_> that too.
May 20 21:28:10 <Estel_> 99% of them don't know that Your wifi exist
May 20 21:28:14 <MrPingu_> BS? sorry :P
May 20 21:28:16 <teotwaki_> sure they do
May 20 21:28:21 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: absolutely not
May 20 21:28:25 <Estel_> and another 1% don't know how to reveal it
May 20 21:28:32 <teotwaki_> they see the network, get signal strength, even AP MAC.
May 20 21:28:35 <teotwaki_> All the info is there.
May 20 21:28:47 <DocScrutinizer> au contraire - hidden SSID introduces new security threats
May 20 21:28:52 <Estel_> it is, but not set in plain, untill You're actually transferring
May 20 21:29:15 <Estel_> ah sry
May 20 21:29:17 <Estel_> missread
May 20 21:29:24 <MrPingu_> much traffic so AP ESSID is reveiled quite easil tho
May 20 21:29:38 <Estel_> only during connect
May 20 21:29:40 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
May 20 21:29:52 <Estel_> cmon, most script kiddies don't know how to do it without essid
May 20 21:30:17 <Estel_> at least they don't bother AP with fake auth to wpa2
May 20 21:30:17 <teotwaki_> rule of thumb: if you need to hide to be safe, you're not safe. If you don't trust your encryption to provide good enough security, you shouldn't be operating wifi.
May 20 21:30:19 <MrPingu_> Yeah but who knows to get airodump running, probably know how to use deauth
May 20 21:30:30 <Estel_> useless for them, but bothersome
May 20 21:30:32 <DocScrutinizer> plus your device configured to scan and query hidden APs, will disclose all the SSIDs your device is known to, no matter where you are - AIUI
May 20 21:31:02 <Estel_> teotwaki,  DocScrutinizer sure thing and I don't claim it's security at all
May 20 21:31:17 <DocScrutinizer> it's anti-security
May 20 21:31:21 <Estel_> it's just a thing that makes 99% of mosquitons not notice You
May 20 21:31:28 <DocScrutinizer> plus a HUUUGE PITA for administration
May 20 21:31:34 <Estel_> I'm using wpa2 with very strong passphrase
May 20 21:31:48 <teotwaki_> but then again, if your security is good enough, they'll see you, and just skip to the next easy target.
May 20 21:31:56 <Estel_> but I also use hidden network, so, miracolously, idiots stopped to deauth me
May 20 21:31:59 <MrPingu_> Besides android can't handle all hidden SSIDs
May 20 21:31:59 <MrPingu_> including my router xD
May 20 21:32:10 <Estel_> teotwaki,  not true with noobs
May 20 21:32:20 <Estel_> tell me how You secure AP against deauths
May 20 21:32:21 <teotwaki_> Hidden SSID causes the actual useful tools to not work properly, you need to remember your ssid name, etc... it's more trouble than it's worth.
May 20 21:32:40 <Estel_> or Your security isn't good enough and You shouldn't have wifi? ;)
May 20 21:32:49 <Estel_> standards are broken, even using strong encryption
May 20 21:32:51 <teotwaki_> i don't give a fuck about deauths...
May 20 21:32:53 <DocScrutinizer> teotwaki_: exactly
May 20 21:33:11 <MrPingu_> deauths are irritating...
May 20 21:33:24 <teotwaki_> well, my neighbours aren't asshats, for one.
May 20 21:33:30 <Estel_> teotwaki,  You will give, if You will download something huge and get deauth in middle, and server doesn't support resuming
May 20 21:33:36 <Estel_> exactly
May 20 21:33:44 <Estel_> but, in place where I live
May 20 21:33:45 <MrPingu_> exactly estel_
May 20 21:33:50 <Estel_> mnay kids try it
May 20 21:34:01 <teotwaki_> and if I notice deauths, I'd pull the plug on my wifi asap 'till the kiddies fly over.
May 20 21:34:06 <Estel_> hidden network is useless in Yoiur user case teotwaki and DocScrutinizer 
May 20 21:34:12 <teotwaki_> who the fuck downloads something huge over wifi?
May 20 21:34:13 <DocScrutinizer> MrPingu_: a bunch of fsckdup clients trying to roam to your AP as they are meant to associate to neighbour's also hidden SSID are more irritating
May 20 21:34:16 <Estel_> but it doesn't mean it's useless for other cases
May 20 21:34:33 <merlin1991> somebody ran a deauth attack at the university some time ago
May 20 21:34:37 <merlin1991> was funny to watch
May 20 21:34:39 <Estel_> teotwaki,  not everyone sits on 120fiber
May 20 21:34:53 <Estel_> My network is so cheap @ bandidth
May 20 21:35:01 <Estel_> that I can use wifi without penalties
May 20 21:35:17 <Estel_> whatever it is, watching stream, downloading, no matter what
May 20 21:35:23 <Estel_> deqauths are irritating
May 20 21:35:24 <teotwaki_> my router downloads huge files -- no disconnection possible. If it's a movie, I consume it over CPL on the telly, if it's a 6GB app, I don't mind plugging in a cable and speeding up the download 100x.
May 20 21:35:45 <Estel_> see above.
May 20 21:35:47 <teotwaki_> streaming is so 2007 :P
May 20 21:35:54 <Estel_> don't care.
May 20 21:36:09 <Estel_> whatever I use, turning hidden network ON made me 0 deauths
May 20 21:36:13 <Estel_> since.
May 20 21:36:34 <Estel_> it doesn't mean I'm not using strong passphrase wpa2 with low time of group key reneval
May 20 21:36:56 <MrPingu_> wpa2 32byte hex key ;)
May 20 21:37:06 <teotwaki_> you just got lucky, if you want i'll check if I still have my aircrack script that deauths everything in range, be it hidden or not -- it used to work fine on the n900, although power hungry.
May 20 21:37:22 <Estel_> nice, but it's not popular amonsgt noobs
May 20 21:37:27 <MrPingu_> whole monitor mode on n900 is power hungry
May 20 21:37:37 <Estel_> I've said zillion of times - hidden network isn't security, it's anti-noob tool
May 20 21:37:40 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: see? that's what I'll get a honeypot WEP for. Aloow deauthing fucking script kiddies to "hack" it, then fsck then decently
May 20 21:37:41 <teotwaki_> see, i just got a disconnect from my shitty network card
May 20 21:37:46 <teotwaki_> did you notice anything? I sure didn't.
May 20 21:37:55 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  true ;)
May 20 21:38:10 <teotwaki_> but wifi went down -- none of my downloads, or connections did.
May 20 21:38:34 <Estel_> fine, but, I, for a turn, don't like such bloatboxes like freebox
May 20 21:38:40 <Estel_> fine, but, I, for a turn, don't like such bloatboxes like freebox
May 20 21:38:47 <Estel_> damn, sry
May 20 21:38:55 <teotwaki_> whatever floats your boat, I guess.
May 20 21:38:57 <Estel_> it's decent router for sure, but
May 20 21:39:09 <Estel_> if I want to plug hdd to it
May 20 21:39:20 <Estel_> I don't need 250gb inside router
May 20 21:39:28 <MrPingu_> Most of the time I use my gaming machine, connected with a wire
May 20 21:39:38 <Estel_> and cmon, can't write dvb-t movies to external disk due to copyright reasons?
May 20 21:39:47 <Estel_> my router is MY router
May 20 21:39:49 <teotwaki_> Estel_: wha? That works.
May 20 21:40:10 <teotwaki_> Estel_: there's two channels on which that doesn't work -- but stream it through VLC from the router, and dump it to the HD.
May 20 21:40:12 <MrPingu_> but sometimes, it's just more comfortable when you can use a laptop everywhere
May 20 21:40:13 <Estel_> well, so article on wiki is outdated, it was well known issue
May 20 21:40:21 <Estel_> teotwaki,  true
May 20 21:40:28 <Estel_> but You must workaround Your own router
May 20 21:40:31 <teotwaki_> they're just playing ball with content providers, doesn't mean they make it exactly difficult.
May 20 21:40:50 <Estel_> ok, I preffer to have own router that doesn't play ball with anyone
May 20 21:41:05 <Estel_> I just don't like provider's stuff
May 20 21:41:10 <teotwaki_> sure, how much do you pay again every month, and what kind of connection do you have? :P
May 20 21:41:11 <MrPingu_> agree ^^
May 20 21:41:14 <Estel_> not that I'm saying it's bad for You
May 20 21:41:50 <Estel_> I just mean that Your user habits doesn't need to be valid for others. I preffer minimalistiv approach
May 20 21:42:10 <MrPingu_> I was about to go to bed, hmm I stayed ;o
May 20 21:42:17 <Estel_> freebox got many great things softwqre wise, but for me - I repeat *just* for me, it's bloated like Ubuntu's unity
May 20 21:42:25 <MrPingu_> going for real now, good night!
May 20 21:42:31 <Estel_> MrPingu_,  interesting night conversations ;)
May 20 21:42:36 <Estel_> bye bye!
May 20 21:42:42 <teotwaki_> Don't mean to get in a pissing context, am just saying that even though I'm a FOSS dude, and I lobby everyone and their brother against patents, and copyright, and DRM, I have to admire when a company uses free software for "the greater good".
May 20 21:43:00 <Estel_> here I agree 100%
May 20 21:43:18 <Estel_> freebox sounds like something 100% better than any router given by providers
May 20 21:43:31 <Estel_> and people will, probably, always use provider's routers
May 20 21:43:38 <Estel_> so I preffer FOSS ones
May 20 21:43:43 <Estel_> it's just not for me
May 20 21:43:55 <teotwaki_> And that's one thing Free has been doing, all the time. They fought all the stupid copyright laws in France (the one where the french RIAA can just submit a list of IPs, and demand the three strike law is applied against it -- they provide the data back in paper format, and charge the french riaa for the cost of printing it and shipping)
May 20 21:43:56 <Estel_> I don't even need usb port in my router that much ;)
May 20 21:44:34 <teotwaki_> When the government tried to kill off wikileaks' hosting in france, Free and OVH were the only two companies to go "Wait, that's against the constitution" and brought it to court.
May 20 21:44:35 <Estel_> haha
May 20 21:44:38 <Estel_> sounds great
May 20 21:44:48 <Estel_> I mean paper
May 20 21:44:54 <Estel_> printing
May 20 21:45:11 <Estel_> sounds reasonable. Good to have such provider.
May 20 21:45:11 <teotwaki_> yeah, that was brilliant -- sad the masses don't hear about it.
May 20 21:45:38 <Estel_> I would surely subscribe to such provider, yet, our ones are "regular"
May 20 21:45:56 <Estel_> Cable providers less bloated by restrictions, mass ones more
May 20 21:46:14 <ThreeM> OVH MUST sue this. the most active consumers from OVH are in the warez business
May 20 21:46:35 <teotwaki_> a decade ago, they kicked the phone industry in the bollocks, by providing free phone to the whole of france, on landlines, and 6 months later, free phone service to 3/4 of the world (landlines).
May 20 21:47:12 <Estel_> would be interested in read about it, any links?
May 20 21:47:50 <Estel_> btw, despite freebox greatness, it's possible to use other routers, and to use freebox on other's lines?
May 20 21:47:57 <Estel_> i.e. not owned by Free?
May 20 21:48:01 <teotwaki_> yeah sure
May 20 21:48:25 <teotwaki_> a few months ago, they did it again, unlimited mobile phone contract, which includes unlimited minutes, texts, mms, 3g (bandwidth limited after 3GB as fair use), free SIM, no early termination fees, no subscription fees, nada... All that, for 15.99 a month (or 19.99 if you're not a prior customer)
May 20 21:48:46 <teotwaki_> and the most beautiful part? 70% of their network is provided by... Orange.
May 20 21:48:54 <Estel_> nice
May 20 21:49:03 <Estel_> but where do they make money, acually?
May 20 21:49:23 <Estel_> and, what about speed limit on 3G after 3GB, any numbers?
May 20 21:49:24 <teotwaki_> for regular users, they have a 40% margin.
May 20 21:49:33 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer: having conenction problems?
May 20 21:49:35 <Estel_> my suckin provider limit it to 16 kbps ;)
May 20 21:49:42 <teotwaki_> Estel_: no idea to be honest.
May 20 21:49:50 <teotwaki_> Estel_: my girlfriend on the N900 never hit the limit.
May 20 21:50:14 <Estel_> it's nice to have girlfriend using N900, I think ;) just side note
May 20 21:50:14 <DocScrutinizer> merlin1991: why?
May 20 21:50:24 <teotwaki_> she loves it
May 20 21:50:38 <teotwaki_> absolutely unaware it would be able to connect to wifi and stuff, or that it runs Linux.
May 20 21:50:41 <merlin1991> <-- jhb (~joerg@e176092221.adsl.alicedsl.de) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Quit: Leaving.)
May 20 21:50:47 <merlin1991> assumed that's you aswell :D
May 20 21:50:55 <DocScrutinizer> nope
May 20 21:50:57 <teotwaki_> that's his evil twin brother.
May 20 21:50:59 <merlin1991> coming from a german network + joerg
May 20 21:51:00 <Estel_> my ex wife wasn't this type, all I was able to convince her was 9300i communicator :P
May 20 21:51:00 <merlin1991> :)
May 20 21:51:59 <teotwaki_> on a side note -- it's the first time I'm lighting a cigarette on IRC in a long time (while talking on #maemo). Usually, I'd shout out "/me throws a lucky strike to lcuk" -- #knottedstomach.
May 20 21:52:05 <Estel_> so You're saying that Your girlfriend loves N900 without knowing how to mess with linux?
May 20 21:52:19 <Estel_> :)
May 20 21:52:29 <Estel_> It sound like great complement.
May 20 21:52:44 <merlin1991> hm rate limit would be awesome
May 20 21:52:49 <teotwaki_> well, she knows how to start up the terminal, launch python, and write an infinite loop saying "I love you".
May 20 21:52:49 <merlin1991> I pay per gb
May 20 21:52:57 <Estel_> ;)
May 20 21:53:09 <merlin1991> teotwaki_: I suppose that has to do ;)
May 20 21:53:19 <Estel_> well, lately I've convinced my mother to sell her xperia x10 mini pro and buy N900
May 20 21:53:32 <Estel_> She's year '53
May 20 21:53:38 <teotwaki_> hey, I got her to use LyX/LaTeX for her uni work, and git to back it all up!
May 20 21:53:42 <Estel_> no problems at all with usage
May 20 21:54:05 <Estel_> teotwaki,  :) technologgy to the masses ;)
May 20 21:54:07 <teotwaki_> next step is Mint 13 with MATE when the stable release comes out. She likes it on the desktop.
May 20 21:54:19 <merlin1991> dafuq is MATE?
May 20 21:54:25 <Estel_> who said N900 wasn't also great for non-geeks?
May 20 21:54:27 <merlin1991> also I should look into LaTeX one day
May 20 21:54:30 <teotwaki_> Gnome 2, made awesome, and supported.
May 20 21:54:59 <merlin1991> hm Gnome 2, that sounds kewl
May 20 21:55:15 <Estel_> I'm all for LXDE
May 20 21:55:34 <teotwaki_> my sister converted her whole Word-based workflow to LyX + BiBTeX (jabref to create the db) for her thesis in roughly 3 weeks.
May 20 21:55:37 <Estel_> I've said about minimalism already, eh? ;)
May 20 21:55:58 <Estel_> nice. Why not LibreOffice?
May 20 21:56:07 <teotwaki_> http://mate-desktop.org/
May 20 21:56:15 <Estel_> sounds like more natural choose for people accustomed to word
May 20 21:56:18 <teotwaki_> Estel_: because libreoffice sucks as much as office.
May 20 21:56:29 <Estel_> rationale?
May 20 21:56:31 <merlin1991> hm could be a lil more yellowis in the default style for my liking :D
May 20 21:56:48 <teotwaki_> LyX enables you to work on your content, rather than be distracted by layout.
May 20 21:56:56 <Estel_> personally, I like LibreOffice, it works great even on N900 ;)
May 20 21:57:19 <Estel_> oh, I'm getting nrvous hearing that phrase
May 20 21:57:32 <Estel_> most of the times used to rationale hiding interface from me
May 20 21:58:06 <Estel_> when next chromium got url bar hidden by default, they've said that it lets You focus more on content
May 20 21:58:31 <teotwaki_> Estel_: lemme take a couple of screenshots to illustrate, aye?
May 20 21:58:32 <Estel_> heck, If I want fullscreen on text processor or browser, I just hit F11
May 20 21:58:38 <Estel_> of course
May 20 21:58:42 <Estel_> thanks for the effort
May 20 22:02:54 <teotwaki_> http://imagebin.org/213163
May 20 22:03:12 <teotwaki_> http://imagebin.org/213164
May 20 22:03:50 <teotwaki_> Estel_: ^
May 20 22:05:25 <teotwaki_> Estel_: LyX hides the complexity of LaTeX, while still empowering you to use all what it offers, and its flexibility.
May 20 22:06:21 <Estel_> thanks for the effort
May 20 22:06:29 <Estel_> damn
May 20 22:06:34 <Estel_> my mesage got deleted
May 20 22:06:47 <Estel_> I meant "thanks for screen,, I also took reading ride"
May 20 22:07:05 <Estel_> looks like really great and powerful tool
May 20 22:07:47 <Estel_> it's for sure really quick when writing pre-defined documents, although doesn't performance hurt when doing non-standarized (layouted) thing?
May 20 22:07:58 <Estel_> You know, custom thing out of regular context
May 20 22:08:40 <Estel_> I mean that it reminds me about .css classes
May 20 22:08:48 <Estel_> teotwaki_^
May 20 22:08:56 <teotwaki_> well, my girlfriend and sister use a template designed by some german dude
May 20 22:09:01 <teotwaki_> called classicthesis
May 20 22:09:14 * Estel_ nods
May 20 22:09:32 <Estel_> I can imagine it's really great and conveinent to use
May 20 22:09:46 <teotwaki_> for some teachers, who need specific layouts, I write up a quick layout for them
May 20 22:09:53 <Estel_> and that You're able to write many complicated things blazingly fast
May 20 22:09:57 <Estel_> I see
May 20 22:10:07 <teotwaki_> usually very basic stuff, specific margins, spacing, font type and size, that kind of shit.
May 20 22:10:34 <teotwaki_> I use it at work, with a bit more "expert" settings, such as logos, or even presentations
May 20 22:10:34 <Estel_> well, I think it's not for everyone or at least not as sole text editor - I, for one, like to have fine tune about details on every basis :P
May 20 22:10:49 <Estel_> I will surely download it and install
May 20 22:11:08 <Estel_> and probably love it
May 20 22:11:20 <teotwaki_> and code, with highlighting, etc.
May 20 22:11:27 <Estel_> yet can't imagine it replacing LibreOffice with zillion of interface buttons
May 20 22:11:42 <Estel_> that I can invoke @ any time :P
May 20 22:12:03 <Estel_> for sure Lyx is a beast for things that You do often and need repeated styles
May 20 22:12:08 <Estel_> do layout once and forget
May 20 22:12:11 <Estel_> just write
May 20 22:12:48 <Estel_> I'm just like this guy who sits in propeller plane and turn all this knobs manually, instead of buying ultralight personal jet :P
May 20 22:12:56 <Estel_> that flights without me ;)
May 20 22:13:20 <Estel_> which doesn't mean I don't like using jets for inter-dontinent travels
May 20 22:13:31 <teotwaki_> well, it's got everything I need... Tables, table of contents, environments (format, headings), I use it to write our product documentation, release notes, meeting minutes, whatever with it
May 20 22:14:06 <Estel_> I don't know how to explain it properly...
May 20 22:14:09 <teotwaki_> and if something is bothering me, I just drop down to LaTeX and fix whatever the gui doesn't allow me.
May 20 22:14:30 <Estel_> it's like with swype. it's great and speeds writing like hell... Yet I like more to tap on qwerty
May 20 22:14:47 <Estel_> this way, I got like "mental connection" with text
May 20 22:14:57 <teotwaki_> haha -- I asked for a zowie celeritas keyboard for my birthday at the end of the month.
May 20 22:15:02 <Estel_> feeling that someone is formatting something for me, I got actual distracted...
May 20 22:15:11 <Estel_> while interface buttons don't distract me
May 20 22:15:17 <Estel_> just personal preff, I suppose
May 20 22:15:19 <trumee> teotwaki_: ++lyx
May 20 22:15:33 <trumee> teotwaki_: i have wanting to run Jabref on N900
May 20 22:15:41 <teotwaki_> shame it's java-based.
May 20 22:15:47 <Estel_> btw, any way to port lyx to N900?
May 20 22:15:57 <teotwaki_> I wouldn't recommend it, frankly.
May 20 22:16:00 <trumee> teotwaki_: yes, nothing comes close to jabref in terms of functionality
May 20 22:16:04 <Estel_> trumee,  teotwaki, phoneME for java based?
May 20 22:16:07 <teotwaki_> LaTeX is pretty hefty, think 300MB worth of dependencies.
May 20 22:16:20 <trumee> Estel_: yes, i have been wondering about that too.
May 20 22:16:21 <Estel_> 300 mb is nothing
May 20 22:16:30 <Estel_> I got 3GB easy debian image
May 20 22:16:38 <Estel_> and I use LibreOffice on ED daily
May 20 22:16:49 <trumee> Estel_: there is a jar for jabref, not sure if phoneME will work
May 20 22:16:50 <Estel_> Lyx looks like perfect solution for on the go writing
May 20 22:16:58 <teotwaki_> let's put it this way, on a good i5 2500K extreme CPU, generating a medium sized (90 pages) document takes 1.3 seconds, or something like that.
May 20 22:17:03 <Estel_> forget formatting and hunting ui button with stylus
May 20 22:17:20 <Estel_> hm
May 20 22:17:21 <teotwaki_> On a 1 year old Pentium something (girlfriend computer), it takes roughly 40 seconds.
May 20 22:17:33 <Estel_> trumee, we need to check ;)
May 20 22:17:45 <teotwaki_> on a 600Mhz ARM CPU? I don't dare ask.
May 20 22:17:52 <Estel_> teotwaki,  You mean generating *after* writing?
May 20 22:17:56 <teotwaki_> yeah
May 20 22:18:01 <Estel_> when You finished and click "generate" ?
May 20 22:18:07 <Estel_> so it's no problem
May 20 22:18:10 <teotwaki_> true
May 20 22:18:12 <Estel_> it can even do it 5 min
May 20 22:18:22 <Estel_> I mean easy of writing itself
May 20 22:18:26 <teotwaki_> it's like "compile time", not an issue for most devs.
May 20 22:18:27 <Estel_> it's important
May 20 22:18:32 <Estel_> yea
May 20 22:18:51 <trumee> The UI will need to modified for lyx
May 20 22:18:52 <Estel_> I use LibreOffice on N900 mainly with bluetooth mouse usb keyboard and tv-out
May 20 22:19:16 <Estel_> but for writing on the go, lyx would be great
May 20 22:19:31 <Estel_> trumee, I'll try lys via easy debian
May 20 22:19:35 <trumee> I think latex is already available on N900
May 20 22:19:43 <trumee> in the repos.
May 20 22:19:47 <Estel_> but of course version tuned for Maemo would be best
May 20 22:19:56 <Estel_> hm, nice
May 20 22:20:02 <teotwaki_> trumee: bibtex format is pretty standard, if it doesn't exist, writing a flexiyacc generator/parser would be easy... Integrating that into a small Qt app would be no challenge for MohammadAG.
May 20 22:20:24 <teotwaki_> 3 weeks 'till it's in extras, methinks, if we got to it.
May 20 22:20:38 <Estel_> MohammadAG is overprojected already
May 20 22:20:46 <teotwaki_> not for me he ain't :P
May 20 22:20:59 <Estel_> it took me year to convince him into update hen
May 20 22:21:01 <trumee> teotwaki_: jabref has a very nice plugin which pulls pdf directly from the journal website
May 20 22:21:16 <teotwaki_> I did not know that.
May 20 22:21:17 <trumee> teotwaki_: that feature is awesome
May 20 22:21:19 <Estel_> ...and he did it just when I started to do it myself :P
May 20 22:22:08 <trumee> teotwaki_: http://www.lhnr.de/ext/localcopy/index.php
May 20 22:22:45 <teotwaki_> nice
May 20 22:23:14 <trumee> teotwaki_: have been using it for past few years. love using jabref because of this
May 20 22:23:23 <teotwaki_> povbot: LOGMARKER JABREF
May 20 22:23:23 <povbot> teotwaki_: Error: "LOGMARKER" is not a valid command.
May 20 22:23:39 <teotwaki_> povbot: don't worry, google search will do it just fine :)
May 20 22:23:41 <povbot> teotwaki_: Error: "don't" is not a valid command.
May 20 22:26:20 <Estel_> Installing LYX on ed frequired 482 MB of archive ;)
May 20 22:26:42 <Estel_> archoves* downloading
May 20 22:26:46 <Estel_> archives* heck
May 20 22:27:15 <Estel_> 831 MB will be used on disk
May 20 22:27:23 <Estel_> wouldn't call it lightweight :P
May 20 22:30:55 <teotwaki_> heh, it's funny when i see ads for my product on the telly :)
May 20 22:36:53 <merlin1991> hehe
May 20 22:53:19 <teotwaki_> anyway, time for me to hit the sack
May 20 22:53:22 <teotwaki_> 'later dudes
May 20 22:58:59 <Estel_> merlin1991,  quick dirty info, what's about maemo icon in /debian/control ?
May 20 22:59:24 <Estel_> it's somehow bundled as a text string inside control file?
May 20 22:59:27 <merlin1991> yes
May 20 22:59:34 <merlin1991> it's what you see in ham
May 20 22:59:43 <merlin1991> there is a defined one for xterm stuff
May 20 22:59:48 <merlin1991> it's somewhere on the wiki
May 20 22:59:50 <Estel_> hm, thanks... how to transform?
May 20 22:59:51 <Estel_> yea
May 20 23:00:00 <Estel_> remember about defined for terminal only
May 20 23:00:25 <Estel_> somewhere in the wiki is my favorite navigational aid :P seriously though, I'll check it.
May 20 23:00:49 <Estel_> normally there is no widely-remembered way to transform icon into text stuff?
May 20 23:01:09 <merlin1991> uuencode
May 20 23:01:51 <Estel_> thx
May 20 23:02:09 <merlin1991> it's a 48x48 png icon base 64 encoded
May 20 23:02:51 <Estel_> aye. thanks a lot, saves huge searching trip
May 20 23:02:51 <merlin1991> see http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#Maemo-specific_fields
May 20 23:03:04 <Estel_> wow, that saves even more ;)
May 20 23:03:18 <Estel_> +orry for bugging You with numerous questions...
May 20 23:03:38 <DocScrutinizer> n8
May 21 00:34:06 <Macer> heh
May 21 00:34:12 <Macer> my water drives are almost done repairing the raid
May 21 00:34:24 <Macer> WD = water drives
May 21 00:37:40 <Hurrian> speaking of water drives, anyone else heard of HDD watercooling?
May 21 00:37:47 <Hurrian> it's maximum rice.
May 21 00:49:24 <luke-jr> my N900 battery won't charge anymore :/
May 21 00:50:04 <beford> at least those batteries are common
May 21 00:57:19 <luke-jr> is it the battery or the USB port? >_<
May 21 00:59:02 <Hurrian> lukr-jr, power it off, and try to power it on
May 21 00:59:10 <Hurrian> by plugging in the USB charger
May 21 01:17:34 <Macer> luke-jr: wooooo!!
May 21 01:17:48 <Macer> luke-jr: n900s seem to have so many problems with them.. my sim reader died on me ;)
May 21 01:17:55 <Macer> first n900 had the broken usb port problem
May 21 01:18:04 <Macer> they just slapped them together and threw them out there
May 21 01:18:04 <Macer> lol
May 21 01:18:19 <luke-jr> Macer: I soldered my USB port down :/
May 21 01:18:25 <Macer> luke-jr: i just gave into the dark side and got a lumia 900 
May 21 01:18:28 <Macer> the beta testing is over :-P
May 21 01:18:29 <luke-jr> a what?
May 21 01:18:36 <Macer> the wp7 phone
May 21 01:18:42 <luke-jr> wtf is wrong with yoyu
May 21 01:18:57 <Macer> got sick of using niche phones and crap ad-droid phones
May 21 01:19:04 <Macer> believe it or not.. it's pretty awesome ;)
May 21 01:19:46 <Macer> don't judge me... i was 2 steps shy of getting an iphone :-P
May 21 01:20:08 <Macer> i got sick of buying phones that break
May 21 01:20:14 <Macer> like HTC garbage and N900s heh
May 21 01:20:25 <Macer> RIP N900... you served me well
May 21 01:20:25 <robbiethe1st> Darn weak point.
May 21 01:20:46 <robbiethe1st> Personally, I couldn't stand it. Anything without a root terminal and unlocked bootloader is not for me
May 21 01:21:18 <Macer> robbiethe1st: well.. to each their own ;) it was cool when i didn't need something that worked.. but now i do and the lumia 900 works 
May 21 01:21:23 <robbiethe1st> I mean... Can your Lumia 900 run usb hostmode with a USB->serial adaptor?
May 21 01:21:35 <robbiethe1st> Or USB soundcard(for SPDIF out)?
May 21 01:21:48 <Macer> no but i honestly don't need those things either 
May 21 01:22:01 <robbiethe1st> Heck, that's the reason I still can't use my N950 as my main phone...
May 21 01:22:25 <robbiethe1st> Cause my N900 has the odd shit I need -- which includes a lot of stuff from easydebian.
May 21 01:22:52 <Macer> robbiethe1st: well.. maybe if you're a dev that's great.. but us mere mortals need something that can make sure that i get a data connection with my cell provider :-P
May 21 01:23:03 <Macer> and charge without a port breaking off
May 21 01:23:38 <robbiethe1st> Actually, erm... I had excellent luck using my N900 for that. Both on-device and USB tethering, it worked absolutely perfectly. But the second is /majorly/ valid.
May 21 01:23:40 <Macer> i have an ssh client for irc and doing remote shell based stuff.. that's all i need ;)
May 21 01:24:00 <Macer> and a jabber client
May 21 01:24:07 <Macer> other than that i need a phone to be a phone
May 21 01:24:20 <Macer> the stock stuff in wp7 is fine
May 21 01:24:36 <robbiethe1st> Forgive me if I disagree, but...
May 21 01:24:38 <Macer> plus.. att was damn near giving them away ;)
May 21 01:24:57 <robbiethe1st> Oh, also, I'm not locked into a contract.
May 21 01:25:29 <Macer> heh... i was too... i still am for about 3 more months.. i gave the phone to my gf so her son could use it
May 21 01:25:32 <Macer> well.. the sim
May 21 01:25:59 <Macer> it wasn't wroth paying the extra $100 and she needed something for her son so it actually worked out
May 21 01:26:27 <Macer> ah well... i have to head out ;) ttyl .. .but yeah... i still have the n900 with the broken sim but without it being on tmob's 3G network it really isn't worth using
May 21 01:26:35 <Macer> and it feels handicapped using it as a nit only
May 21 01:26:42 <Macer> now it's just collecting dust
May 21 01:27:01 <robbiethe1st> Sad
May 21 01:27:06 <Macer> i'll probably ebay it with the broken sim and see if i get any takers.. other than that it's in GREAT condition.. i took great care of it
May 21 01:27:31 <Macer> robbiethe1st: it is.. i'm not saying i didn't love it.. i'm just saying it was time to move on ;)
May 21 01:29:11 <Theytookourjobs> is there a roadmap or a release shedule when maemo will have reach stable?
May 21 01:34:07 <Theytookourjobs> I mean, how long is maemo around already? 
May 21 01:34:28 <merlin1991> dafuq?
May 21 01:34:35 <merlin1991> maemo is stable, it has seen several releases alreadyx
May 21 01:35:10 <Theytookourjobs> merlin1991:  now, I can prove it is now the case.
May 21 01:36:47 <Theytookourjobs> merlin1991: if you go to maemo.org it states very clearly - MAEMO [BETA] -
May 21 01:37:46 <GeneralAntilles> Theytookourjobs, Maemo is discontinued.
May 21 01:38:04 <GeneralAntilles> Theytookourjobs, it clearly states: maemo.org beta.
May 21 01:38:07 <GeneralAntilles> Lern2reed
May 21 01:39:26 <Theytookourjobs> OMG! Then it will never reach stable! 
May 21 01:39:52 <GeneralAntilles> Theytookourjobs, warning #1 (you only get 1). Quit trolling. Nobody's interested.
May 21 01:41:44 <Theytookourjobs> now come on, that isn't really trolling. more or less you should get rid of this [beta].
May 21 01:48:48 <Theytookourjobs> maemo.org beta,
May 21 01:51:22 <Theytookourjobs> beta
May 21 01:51:55 <Theytookourjobs> this beta even has a red background.
May 21 01:59:46 <Theytookourjobs> you know, in case nokia will go bankcrupt and the webserver goes offline, I'll write a wikipedia entry "...one reason might be because maemo.org was beta until the very end". no joke.
May 21 02:00:56 <GeneralAntilles> Cripes
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 21 02:59:59 2012