**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 30 02:59:58 2012
May 30 04:15:27 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!
May 30 08:06:02 <teotwaki> fuck me, are they still postulating for the n9/n950s?
May 30 08:09:46 <vi_> teotwaki: well dur
May 30 08:10:09 <vi_> FREE FONEZ. JUST SEND EMAILZ.
May 30 08:10:17 <teotwaki> good point.
May 30 08:12:09 <Jaffa> Estel_: If Twitter's a problem and you'd really like to contribute links, send them via email or we can find some other way. However, Twitter is a low-barrier submission method which makes it convenient for sending links
May 30 08:35:15 <klea> hi... yesterday I asked in here about my wifi reception problems with this used n900 that i recently picked up used (thanx to the ones that helped)...  unfortunately i got cut off again but had time to make some more tests... i installed KP50 and bleeding edge wifi drivers but this didn't help a lot. i still think it's a hardware problem... since i have some wifi cards around and a n9 sitting by (not that famous for it's wifi), i'll drop some rece
May 30 08:35:32 <klea> 1. integrated wifi in laptop (realtek): . Bit Rate=54 Mb/s  Link Quality=64/70  Signal level=-46 dBm 
May 30 08:35:32 <klea> 2. usb wifi, laptop (atheros): Bit Rate=54 Mb/s Link Quality=59/70  Signal level=-51 dBm
May 30 08:35:32 <klea> 3. N9: Bit Rate=54 Mb/s Link Quality=48/70  Signal level=-62 dBm
May 30 08:35:32 <klea> 4. N900 (bleeding edge driver 0.2, power management off in settings): Bit Rate=5.5 Mb/s Link Quality=25/70  Signal level=-85 dBm
May 30 08:38:45 <RST38h> klea: The answer is to use manufacturer supplied drivers rather than the "bleeding edge" stuff you have got from god knows where
May 30 08:39:12 <klea> ok, but it makes no difference
May 30 08:39:23 <klea> i'll post the stock results
May 30 08:45:17 <klea> 5. N900 (stock drivers, power management off): Bit Rate=5.5 Mb/s Link Quality=12/100  Signal level=-86 dBm   Noise Level =-93dBm
May 30 08:50:38 <klea> i also have to note that the 2 wifi cards detect about 20 wifi networks around, old-trusty E71 finds 16, N9 only 4 of them and N900 only 2
May 30 09:01:49 <vi_> klea: it seems pretty clear.  Your n900 is fecked
May 30 09:02:01 <klea> vi_: :)
May 30 09:02:16 <vi_> klea: take it apart and make sure the wifi aerial is sitting right
May 30 09:02:36 <vi_> it is only 'pressed' together with some springs.
May 30 09:02:57 <vi_> maybe if you bend them out slightly and clean the contacks with a little solvent it might work again.
May 30 09:04:03 <klea> vi_: that's what i thought of doing, but wanted to ask for ideas in here before
May 30 09:04:44 <klea> vi_: (maybe i could try soldering the usb port as well....)
May 30 09:07:02 <klea> vi_: strange though, didn't find anyone with a similar problem, it's a strange case
May 30 09:09:27 <MrPingu> Someone has to be the first...
May 30 09:11:19 <Jaffa> Estel_: If you want to write the bot, that'd be fine :-)
May 30 09:17:21 <MrPingu> Brb, reboot testing new hildon-desktop
May 30 09:26:02 <chem|st> o/
May 30 09:33:48 <DocScrutinizer51> vi_: how do you expl*in -69dBm by broken antenna, and how's that creating poor signal quality?
May 30 09:35:13 <chem|st> MohammadAG: ping
May 30 09:35:27 <DocScrutinizer51> moin chem|st 
May 30 09:36:00 <chem|st> MohammadAG: sociality shows a conversation missing about one day but showing one entry I do not see on facebook... o.O
May 30 09:36:05 <chem|st> moin Doc
May 30 09:36:51 <DocScrutinizer51> chem|st: could you take over and explain why solvents are generally a poor idea to 'clean' contacts
May 30 09:36:59 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm busy
May 30 09:37:51 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer51: sure
May 30 09:39:42 <DocScrutinizer51> use unvarnished paper to 'brush' contacts clean!
May 30 09:40:00 <DocScrutinizer51> or eraser, in nasty cases
May 30 09:41:31 <DocScrutinizer51> vi_ is talking klea into nonsensical enterprise
May 30 09:41:42 <chem|st> klea: for cleaning you do not want any non-polar liquids as it will destroy other things, as DocScrutinizer51 says, dry cleaning first
May 30 09:41:48 <chem|st> but I doubt it is the antenna
May 30 09:42:03 <DocScrutinizer51> me too
May 30 09:42:25 <chem|st> sounds more likely to be some other issue, my sister just had a powrmanaement disconnect last night
May 30 09:42:27 <DocScrutinizer51> chem|st: oxid! non-soluble
May 30 09:43:26 <DocScrutinizer51> but -69dBm is not a defect antr
May 30 09:43:31 <DocScrutinizer51> -r
May 30 09:44:50 <vi_> DocScrutinizer51s is gonna hate.
May 30 09:44:58 <chem|st> no the 12% link quality seems odd
May 30 09:45:06 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
May 30 09:45:30 <DocScrutinizer51> doeasn't match -69 and short dist to AP
May 30 09:45:46 <DocScrutinizer51> doesn't suggest ant is problem
May 30 09:46:16 <DocScrutinizer51> I suspect cross intermodulation
May 30 09:46:31 <DocScrutinizer51> aka 'interference'
May 30 09:46:46 <chem|st> klea: as people always mess up flashing, and sometimes the hardware firmwares do not get flashed properly (you gonna end up like my sister)
May 30 09:46:52 <chem|st> as you speak DocScrutinizer51 
May 30 09:47:04 <chem|st> klea: how far are you away from the AP
May 30 09:47:29 <DocScrutinizer51> consider BT coexistence
May 30 09:47:51 <klea> chem|st: -69 dBm was yesterdays result, 10cm from the access point (thomson)
May 30 09:48:29 <chem|st> MohammadAG: ok got it, it is dumb, it shows an conversation in overview being sent yesterday night which was actually sent 2years ago the next entry is really sent 3 days ago and so on
May 30 09:48:32 <vi_> ~seen mata
May 30 09:48:35 <vi_> ~seen matan
May 30 09:48:39 <infobot> mata <~a@c-f685e555.024-50-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se> was last seen on IRC in channel #sc2mapster, 744d 19h 36m 15s ago, saying: 'do we know what console commands there are?'.
May 30 09:48:39 <infobot> matan <530f167a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.15.22.122> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 622d 1h 54m 37s ago, saying: 'morning'.
May 30 09:48:40 <chem|st> MohammadAG: some kind of just useless
May 30 09:48:56 <klea> chem|st: today i get about -85 dBm at 5-6 meters from the AP
May 30 09:49:24 <klea> and it's a different AP today
May 30 09:49:46 <chem|st> klea: 10cm is like worthless, in ranges lower 3m it is know that your link quality may drop
May 30 09:49:53 <chem|st> klea: what is the link now?
May 30 09:50:10 <vi_> klea is this for ALL AP in different buildings?
May 30 09:50:35 <klea> vi_: yes
May 30 09:51:07 <klea> vi_: i can't even detect networks that even the N9 sees and connects to
May 30 09:51:24 <vi_> mmm, some kind of global interference ay?
May 30 09:51:26 <klea> i took it out several times to try public APs
May 30 09:51:52 <klea> i'm sure something's wrong with the n900 itself
May 30 09:52:02 <vi_> klea: clearly
May 30 09:53:09 <klea> of course i'm open to suggestions/ideas, it's my first n900 and don't have experience
May 30 09:53:16 <vi_> Then WTF is this ultrasolve PCB cleaning solvent for?
May 30 09:53:30 <vi_> Klea your N900 broken.
May 30 09:54:19 <vi_> If it was mine I would open it, clean contacts and inspect etc.
May 30 09:54:33 <klea> vi_: it can only be used reliably when at the same room as the AP
May 30 09:54:47 <chem|st> vi_: link?
May 30 09:54:53 <vi_> Despite what Doc 'I know everything!!q!' Scrutinizer51 says.
May 30 09:54:56 <vi_> link?
May 30 09:55:01 <vi_> It is sitting on my desk
May 30 09:55:14 <chem|st> klea: another try with another approach if you don't mind
May 30 09:55:27 <chem|st> vi_: picture (ingridients)
May 30 09:55:59 <vi_> http://www.electrolube.com/064/docs/cleaningmain.asp?id=22
May 30 09:56:10 <vi_> Shuv that in your truth pipe and smoke it.
May 30 09:56:22 <vi_> (actually doin't it is probably wuite harmful to inhale)
May 30 09:56:34 <vi_> ^dont ^quite
May 30 09:57:38 <chem|st> klea: flash it clean, really clean, speaking of "flash rootfs>disconnect&remove battery>flash emmc>disconnect&remove battery>flash rootfs>disconnect&remove battery>boot>try again" just to make sure everything is fine from the software side
May 30 09:59:04 <chem|st> vi_: "Compatible with most plastics"...
May 30 09:59:40 <klea> chem|st: ok, I'll do it. actually i should have done it when i got it since i've no idea what the previous owner did to it, but everything was quite default, they didn't seem to play a lot with it
May 30 09:59:43 <chem|st> I would use it on PCBs from 90's backwards...
May 30 10:00:43 <chem|st> klea: my sister had a borked rootfs, flashing emmc>rootfs did not work in the first place, osso-notes crashed instantaneous and so on
May 30 10:01:22 <chem|st> klea: getting a used device means flashing after posting every details (the owner left) on facebook
May 30 10:02:02 <chem|st> a clean rootfs>emmc>rootfs flash did the job
May 30 10:02:40 <chem|st> and pls do not ask what it does while booting, it is some populating stuff and voodoo
May 30 10:03:01 <chem|st> as it does populate home and stuff AFTER language/date setup
May 30 10:05:13 <chem|st> vi_: for your solvent... solving oil and grease off a pcb means all parts on the PCB need to be resistant, try that on your PC's mainboard and I bet you will have funny effects after a while
May 30 10:06:31 <chem|st> that is why you need to be carefull if immersing your pc in cooling liquids... they have to be polar acid-free silicon-free
May 30 10:06:35 <vi_> I will be sure to tell the boys in production to stop using it on aour PCBs then.
May 30 10:07:05 <chem|st> vi_: you are an idiot!
May 30 10:07:14 <chem|st> sry cannot help it!
May 30 10:08:13 <chem|st> I work in a surface and thin-film lab and have exactly that kind of "in-process-failures" to search for
May 30 10:09:10 <vi_> chem|st: cheers mate.
May 30 10:09:43 <chem|st> believe it or not, sometimes a replaced wheel in a production lane causes trouble as it is gassing some "solvent"
May 30 10:10:45 <chem|st> if the "ultrasolver" works for your production fine, but your production is not "all" production
May 30 10:10:48 <vi_> chem|st: also I was not advocating he bathes his n900 in a solvent.  The implication was 'put a little on a cotton bud and clean the contacts'.
May 30 10:11:07 <chem|st> our et engineer ruined a sample with such a "solvent"
May 30 10:11:30 <chem|st> vi_: yeah and maybe the contact will come off afterwards
May 30 10:11:43 <chem|st> metal does not need a solvent for cleaning
May 30 10:12:19 <dafox> Hi all. Does anyone if there (currently) exists a (global) audio-equalizer for the n900? I searched and all I could come up with was a seemingly outdated gst renderer plugin. I would like something which can adjust the global volume so that it works for applications other than my mediaplayer too (e.g. phone, games, etc).
May 30 10:13:07 <chem|st> dafox: afair there is only a mediaplayer with equelizer
May 30 10:14:05 <dafox> yes, I read about that one, the problem is that this will only work for playing music then, whereas ideally all sounds should be passed through the equalizer
May 30 10:15:08 <chem|st> so iirc the answere is "no"
May 30 10:16:56 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer51: this solvent conversation is "history repeating" dejavu whatever, seems to be about once a year
May 30 10:17:08 <chem|st> good morning freemangordon 
May 30 10:17:37 <freemangordon_> morning? 
May 30 10:18:08 <freemangordon_> let it be morning :-) 
May 30 10:19:36 <DocScrutinizer51> ~ugt
May 30 10:19:37 <infobot> i heard ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
May 30 10:20:13 <freemangordon_> :-) 
May 30 10:21:03 <chem|st> ^^
May 30 10:21:44 <chem|st> ~imk
May 30 10:21:53 <chem|st> ~wtf imk
May 30 10:21:54 <infobot> Gee...  I don't know what imk means... 
May 30 10:22:01 <chem|st> me neither
May 30 10:22:26 <chem|st> is it "in my knowledge"? sounds wrong to me
May 30 10:27:58 * chem|st lols on application emails
May 30 10:29:07 <chem|st> "We´ve created a really cool German Community around the maemo
May 30 10:29:09 <chem|st> (N900),MeeGo(N9/50;Ivi,Netbooks,Tablets),Mer,Nemo,Tizen Stuff."
May 30 10:37:07 <shanttu> Is there any way to update time and date automatically (using 'internet-time' or something) when SIM-card is not used? Now I have to set them manually after every boot
May 30 10:38:44 <petteri> probably with ntp, but I haven't tried
May 30 10:38:46 <dafox> chem|st: ok, that's unfortunate :( Thank you for the answer :)
May 30 10:41:25 <shanttu> petteri, thanks. ntp it is http://wiki.maemo.org/NTP
May 30 10:45:46 <chem|st> shanttu: openntpd or use gps
May 30 10:47:20 <chem|st> dafox: was looking in several PA possibilities but I did not manage to get anything working properly as I broke the "normal" PA setup always
May 30 10:47:40 <dafox> PA = portaudio?
May 30 10:47:46 <chem|st> pulseaudio
May 30 10:48:33 <chem|st> I never got the streams right and after several days wasting evenings I gave up
May 30 10:48:41 <dafox> ok. I guess I'll have to live with it then :(. Did you do that gst render plugin then?
May 30 10:48:49 <chem|st> no
May 30 10:48:58 <dafox> what did you try to do then?
May 30 10:49:55 <vi_>  luke_jr submitted a patch tht allowed a user to load a FIR filter into the soundchip.
May 30 10:50:03 <vi_> the patch was not his.
May 30 10:50:53 <dafox> that actually sound really useful. I'm sorry but I have afk for a little while, is it ok to talk about this a bit more later?
May 30 10:51:40 <chem|st> I tried to apply http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/system-wide-pulseaudio-equalizer.html
May 30 10:52:52 <chem|st> dafox: sure, don't know about my evening yet but others might have useful info for you too
May 30 10:56:38 <shanttu> chem|st, how to use gps to set time?
May 30 10:56:50 <shanttu> just enabling in and wait?
May 30 10:58:17 <chem|st> shanttu: the program needs to apply $date
May 30 10:58:44 <chem|st> iirc columbus did that, look in its source
May 30 10:58:53 <[DarkGUNMAN]> afternoon
May 30 10:59:06 <chem|st> good morning [DarkGUNMAN] 
May 30 10:59:30 <chem|st> shanttu: I do not know why the gpsstack doesn't do that automatically
May 30 10:59:49 <chem|st> shanttu: but ntpd should do...
May 30 11:00:07 <[DarkGUNMAN]> I've got a good puzzle for someone.. how do you find which process is trying to open an internet connection?
May 30 11:00:16 <shanttu> chem|st, thanks. got updated using gps, just took a while
May 30 11:00:25 <chem|st> [DarkGUNMAN]: lsiten to dbus calls
May 30 11:00:33 <[DarkGUNMAN]> dbus-monitor doesn't show anything
May 30 11:00:56 <chem|st> what do you need it for?
May 30 11:01:27 <chem|st> desktop widgets usually being set to autoupdate by default cause that
May 30 11:02:07 <[DarkGUNMAN]> maemo regularly tries to open an internet connection
May 30 11:02:15 <chem|st> shanttu: well it needs a valid cache to do so
May 30 11:02:21 <[DarkGUNMAN]> thought it is not all the time
May 30 11:02:33 <chem|st> frequently you mean
May 30 11:03:02 <[DarkGUNMAN]> yes, only during the day for some reason
May 30 11:03:09 <chem|st> [DarkGUNMAN]: I guess it is depending on which homescreen you are looking and one of the widgets you use wants to update
May 30 11:03:36 <chem|st> or you have set email update or something
May 30 11:04:22 <[DarkGUNMAN]> only widgets i have in play are flipclock, connectnow, and a qbw to show IP address, not set to autoupdate, only on network trigger
May 30 11:04:32 <[DarkGUNMAN]> modest is not set to update
May 30 11:04:46 <[DarkGUNMAN]> and i removed cherry
May 30 11:05:52 <chem|st> hmm
May 30 11:06:29 <chem|st> log cpu usage and compare which one is hogging right before
May 30 11:21:05 <[DarkGUNMAN]> chem|st - appart from watching htop is there a way to log this to a file.
May 30 11:21:24 <[DarkGUNMAN]> i did notice that swap space jumped in use by 32mb
May 30 11:27:14 <DocScrutinizer51> re equalizer FIR, me and a guy nick HNK or NKH or sth like that looked into that like 1.5y ago. check chanlogs fo mixer chip name and FIR
May 30 11:32:10 <chem|st> [DarkGUNMAN]: top snapshots to file
May 30 11:34:28 <[DarkGUNMAN]> chem|st - looks like modest is the culprit. shall i post here or pastebin?
May 30 11:35:05 <chem|st> pastebin
May 30 11:35:27 <chem|st> top -b -n1|head -10|tail -6
May 30 11:35:44 <chem|st> gives back 6 lines of top oftop
May 30 11:36:12 <[DarkGUNMAN]> its an entry i found in dbus-monitor
May 30 11:36:47 <chem|st> so its email trying to connect
May 30 11:37:05 <chem|st> onliner you may paste here but more pastebin pls
May 30 11:37:11 <chem|st> oneliner
May 30 11:37:17 <[DarkGUNMAN]> http://pastebin.com/AANDkp3c
May 30 11:37:52 <[DarkGUNMAN]> i'm no expert but it looked likely to me
May 30 11:38:21 <Jaffa> Oooh, exciting. I might be getting to go to OSCon in July
May 30 11:38:53 <chem|st> [DarkGUNMAN]: looks like a failing sendreceive request
May 30 11:39:14 <chem|st> does it fail after you deny connection or just blank?
May 30 11:39:48 <chem|st> ok no it does it at mine too
May 30 11:40:33 <[DarkGUNMAN]> I got this while connected (using x-chat)
May 30 11:40:48 <[DarkGUNMAN]> so this is likely prompting the connection when offline?
May 30 11:41:11 <chem|st> I just got it by closing conversations
May 30 11:41:31 <chem|st> this has nothing to do with your connection request
May 30 11:41:32 <[DarkGUNMAN]> modest is definetly not set to update automatically
May 30 11:42:10 <[DarkGUNMAN]> ok. I guess a bit of bug hunting using top is the way to go.
May 30 11:42:23 <[DarkGUNMAN]> thank you for your time
May 30 11:44:40 <chem|st> logging the top 6 cpu hogging should be fair enough
May 30 11:45:12 <chem|st> don't write several files as you will get to your inode limit pretty fast
May 30 11:47:09 <vi_> root
May 30 11:47:21 <vi_> oops, wrong xterm
May 30 11:57:08 <dafox> chem|st: I'm back. sorry again. That sounds interesting, so how far did you get?
May 30 11:58:44 <[DarkGUNMAN]> thanks again
May 30 12:11:09 <chem|st> dafox: read DocScrutinizer51's reply above
May 30 12:11:55 <dafox> chem|st: yes, I was already looking through the logs, I was just curious how far you got with your pulseaudio equalizer :)
May 30 12:12:10 <dafox> were you doing it in software or using those hw-filters?
May 30 12:12:39 <chem|st> I got it working for speakers only, as soon as something happened like incoming call or something the thing went crazy
May 30 12:12:51 <chem|st> software
May 30 12:13:13 <chem|st> AND it did keep the cpu at 99%
May 30 12:13:15 <dafox> I'm reading here that the filters were not that powerful?
May 30 12:13:28 <dafox> mm 100% cpu is maybe not so useful...
May 30 12:13:37 <chem|st> no idea, I just tried to get my earpiece adjusted....
May 30 12:13:46 <chem|st> it is always to low
May 30 12:14:50 <freemangordon> chem|st, ever tried to neon-optimize it?
May 30 12:15:30 <chem|st> so I thought to suppress and raise lvls to get speech cleared, I am not very good with PA, I also tried to network audio with pulse
May 30 12:16:27 <dafox> ugh yeah, it's hard to hear anything. I read that that was actually a fault in the hardware design though? As in they positioned the actual speaker some distance away from the speaker hole in the casing, and then there's a narrow path for the actual audio waves to travel through?
May 30 12:16:28 <chem|st> freemangordon: nope, never got to the stage of actually finding it any useful
May 30 12:17:09 <freemangordon> chem|st, that should make things 3-4 times faster for matrix operations
May 30 12:17:27 <freemangordon> the same as with MMX/SSE
May 30 12:19:40 * freemangordon assumes chem|st uses matrices for calculations
May 30 12:29:24 <chem|st> true
May 30 12:30:21 <chem|st> I decided to stay with scripting instead of coding... at least s/t I actualy am able to do right^^
May 30 12:43:04 <DocScrutinizer51> good scripting is way harder than semi-decent coding
May 30 12:43:57 <DocScrutinizer51> though abysmally bad code is way easier to create than terribly messed up scripts
May 30 12:46:51 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer51: just more my thing, especially as I needed to do alot of scripting for work, even learn a new scripting language
May 30 12:48:02 <chem|st> actually 3 new languages I never will use for anything else than those specifics
May 30 13:34:02 <chem|st> ~bq27200
May 30 13:34:20 <chem|st> ~battery
May 30 13:34:20 <infobot> methinks battery is made by Danionics http://www.danionics.com/products/icphh02.asp, or at http://www.handhelds.org/handhelds-faq/questions.html#AEN744
May 30 13:34:32 <chem|st> ~bme
May 30 13:34:33 <infobot> hmm... bme is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME
May 30 13:34:46 <ruskie> hmm is there any way on a N900 to restart all system apps(i.e. what comes up on a vanilla bootup) easily?
May 30 13:34:55 <DocScrutinizer51> ~listkeys bq27
May 30 13:34:57 <infobot> Factoid search of 'bq27' by key returned no results.
May 30 13:41:09 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer51: I cannot remember what is what in bq27200.sh output...
May 30 13:41:33 <chem|st> CI: has to be zero or something is wrong I rember
May 30 13:41:47 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
May 30 13:42:06 <DocScrutinizer51> get bq27k-detail2 from my server
May 30 13:42:10 <chem|st> my battery went flat within minutes from showing like +50% charge
May 30 13:42:26 <DocScrutinizer51> it has full epic length datasheet text
May 30 13:44:20 <chem|st> wohoo even register addresses^^
May 30 13:45:01 <chem|st> at least I do not need to reset, I just need some charging cycles to reecover right?
May 30 13:50:28 <klea> chem|st: just finished flashing rootfs>emmc>rootfs with battery removals and all, installed wireless-tools and..... same results with the wifi :-|
May 30 13:50:43 <klea> so it must be something else...
May 30 13:52:33 <chem|st> klea: different wifi APs tested, right?
May 30 13:53:07 <klea> not yet but it still detects 2 APs out of the 20 that i have around...
May 30 13:53:41 <chem|st> SNR?
May 30 13:53:48 <chem|st> quality?
May 30 13:58:14 <klea>  Bit Rate=1 Mb/s Link Quality= 10/100  Signal level=-88 dBm   Noise Level =-91 dBm
May 30 14:07:21 <chem|st> ok
May 30 14:09:41 <chem|st> at least it is not something like -50dBm/-65dBm
May 30 14:10:24 <chem|st> cleaning antenna contacts would be my next aproach
May 30 14:12:42 <ShadowJK> resetting bq27200 would make battery go empty at around 50%
May 30 14:12:43 <Hurrian> those are some horrible wifi perf metrics
May 30 14:14:43 <chem|st> ShadowJK: I didn't do nothing, I was listening to some music and it popped up with battery empty... I had a reboot in that cycle, always there is wrong reading after that and I am wondering why
May 30 14:14:50 <chem|st> well bme sucks I know
May 30 14:15:07 <ShadowJK> bme resets on reboot
May 30 14:15:29 <ShadowJK> and doesn't use data from bq27200
May 30 14:19:03 <klea> chem|st: ok, i suppose that once I get inside there is something that can be actually cleaned... but first i have to find a way to remove these torx screws :)
May 30 14:20:14 <vi_> klea torx screw driver works pretty good
May 30 14:20:22 <chem|st> lol
May 30 14:21:43 <klea> :)
May 30 14:21:53 <chem|st> klea: rub the springs on a clean sheet of blank paper and use a qtip for the PCB contacts
May 30 14:21:56 <klea> yeap, if u have one :)
May 30 14:23:20 <klea> chem|st: ok, thanx, i'll keep a note of that
May 30 14:36:56 <vi_> klea: it is worth buying a torx driver for this task.  Other wise you will mangle the head
May 30 14:37:04 <vi_> you can them on ebay for like 1 euro.
May 30 14:40:01 <dafox> chem|st: wouldn't -65 be better than -88
May 30 14:45:50 <chem|st> in terms of noise? I have -55/-108 SNR
May 30 15:28:40 <dafox> no, in terms of reception power (signal level). The noise level (-91dBm) seems ok, but the reception is very poor (at only -88dBm)
May 30 15:30:08 <dafox> where can one see these stats btw?
May 30 15:30:12 <kwtm> Hi. Is there an application that will keep reminding me every 15 minutes that there is a SMS (and possibly email) that I have not yet checked?
May 30 15:37:35 <vi_> There is but it is wriiten in python and chores your battery.
May 30 15:37:43 <beford> i would hate an app like that
May 30 15:39:03 <fw190> hello
May 30 15:39:25 <fw190> Could someone please check if mamo flasher can be downloaded?
May 30 15:39:31 <fw190> I have a problem with it
May 30 15:43:40 <dafox> ok, apt-get install wireless-tools, then iwconfig tells me -70 / -94 snr
May 30 15:52:58 <chem|st> fw190: which one?
May 30 15:53:25 <chem|st> fw190: tried 3 all work
May 30 15:53:56 <chem|st> you are here, right? http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php
May 30 15:54:22 <fw190> yes
May 30 15:54:48 <chem|st> something wrong on your end! try wget
May 30 15:55:42 <dafox> grr. Has anyone figured out a way to get MfE to work again after "error in communication with exchange server" without rebooting? Like removing some files or killing some process?
May 30 15:56:08 <chem|st> dafox: -72/-96 35% at 54Mb/s I have with powermanagement on, 10mW
May 30 15:56:44 <fw190> well chromium didn't want to download it
May 30 15:56:52 <fw190> bu firefox did the trick
May 30 15:56:52 <chem|st> wget?
May 30 15:56:58 <fw190> thank you for your help
May 30 15:57:01 <fw190> no
May 30 15:57:02 <chem|st> kk
May 30 15:57:11 <fw190> I do not know ow to wget
May 30 15:57:12 <fw190> ;)
May 30 15:57:15 <chem|st> fw190: windows7?
May 30 15:57:23 <dafox> chem|st: yes, more or less the same for me. Quality reading says ~35/100 . So 88 is really too few :)
May 30 15:57:27 <chem|st> 64bit?
May 30 15:57:44 <fw190> ubuntu 12.04 but I'm a linux noob
May 30 15:57:47 <fw190> just a user
May 30 15:57:50 <chem|st> dafox: that is my usual reception at work...
May 30 15:57:53 <fw190> firefox failed to
May 30 15:58:08 <chem|st> there is something wrong on your end
May 30 15:58:38 <chem|st> open a terminal and enter:
May 30 15:58:51 <chem|st> wget http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb
May 30 15:59:17 <chem|st> mkdir maemo
May 30 15:59:46 <chem|st> mv maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb maemo/
May 30 15:59:53 <chem|st> cd maemo
May 30 16:00:07 <chem|st> dpkg -x maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb
May 30 16:00:59 <chem|st> each line is commited by hitting enter...
May 30 16:01:06 <chem|st> gtg l8er
May 30 16:01:36 <fw190> thank you for you help
May 30 18:48:17 <DocScrutinizer51> +q *!*@* ?
May 30 18:50:04 <DocScrutinizer51> ~botsnack
May 30 18:50:04 <infobot> :), DocScrutinizer51
May 30 18:50:34 <DocScrutinizer51> I should teach er to send a 
May 30 18:50:38 <DocScrutinizer51> --- MARK ---
May 30 18:50:48 <DocScrutinizer51> line every 60min without any post
May 30 18:51:28 <DocScrutinizer51> ~attack chem|st
May 30 18:51:28 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing chem|st
May 30 18:53:04 <infobot> --- MARK ---
May 30 19:00:00 <DocScrutinizer51> klea: I still think your environment is the culprit, not your WLAN antenna
May 30 19:01:30 <chem|st> re
May 30 19:02:10 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer51: o/
May 30 19:02:18 <chem|st> ~feed DocScrutinizer51 
May 30 19:02:19 * infobot offers DocScrutinizer51 some toe-jam
May 30 19:02:46 <DocScrutinizer51> yummy, toes in jelly
May 30 19:02:56 <chem|st> you become a diva if you are hungry
May 30 19:03:00 <chem|st> :)
May 30 19:03:12 <DocScrutinizer51> :-D
May 30 19:03:25 <Raimu> Jelly-dipped toes in mouth?
May 30 19:03:28 <chem|st> well his SNR looks fine
May 30 19:03:51 <chem|st> I am wondering what the problem is,
May 30 19:04:05 <DocScrutinizer51> chem|st: doesn't meaqn much, THD alias cross-intermodulation
May 30 19:04:21 <chem|st> grml wanted to have some offline life tonight but it is raining cats
May 30 19:04:32 <DocScrutinizer51> can happen with strong nearby signals that are not (or are) WLAN
May 30 19:04:51 <chem|st> switching channels might help yes
May 30 19:05:20 <chem|st> you should havve a look on all others and pick a channel close to the weakest
May 30 19:05:25 <DocScrutinizer51> not many users are aware a single AP occupies 3 cahnnels up and 3 down from center channel
May 30 19:06:10 <chem|st> my neighbourhood scramples wlan/gsm/umts/cable 
May 30 19:06:14 <DocScrutinizer51> WLAN modulation width is much wider than channel spacing
May 30 19:06:21 <chem|st> scramble..
May 30 19:07:00 <DocScrutinizer51> get WiFi-Eye, it's awesome
May 30 19:07:12 <DocScrutinizer51> a really really decent tool
May 30 19:07:31 <DocScrutinizer51> done by a devel who knew his shit
May 30 19:07:51 <chem|st> quiet frequently a guy of our cable company is walking around trying to find the spot where wifi and stuff is interfering most to put on some extra shielding
May 30 19:07:56 <chem|st> got wifi-eye
May 30 19:08:06 <DocScrutinizer51> the graphic display is instantly intuitive
May 30 19:08:19 <chem|st> yes
May 30 19:10:02 <DocScrutinizer51> but still it doesn't show the leaking microwave oven in your neighbour's kitchen
May 30 19:11:33 <vi_____> ...use channel 14.
May 30 19:11:53 <DocScrutinizer51> for a reference: I get sth like -56dBm a 100cm away from my AP
May 30 19:12:35 <vi_____> also at 20MHz channel width...
May 30 19:12:46 <DocScrutinizer51> [11:57:22] <DocScrutinizer51> WTF my t900 doesn't know about chan13 :-S
May 30 19:12:48 <DocScrutinizer51> [11:58:11] <DocScrutinizer51> switched AP to chan13, IroN900 not even lost connection, T900 doesn't see AP anymore
May 30 19:13:42 <vi_____> and 5MHz spacing per channel.
May 30 19:13:55 <vi_____> implies 2 channels up and down.
May 30 19:14:33 <DocScrutinizer51> well, since other AP would also use 20MHz, that means you need at least 3 'unused' chan for separating
May 30 19:15:31 <DocScrutinizer51> vi_____: it's not like AP WLAN just spams the neighbour chans, it actually uses them - also for RX
May 30 19:16:47 <DocScrutinizer51> basic rule: if your modulation is X wide, you need X as minimum real chan spacing
May 30 19:18:09 <DocScrutinizer51> this would mean 4 times 5 MHz skip to center of next neighbour AP freq
May 30 19:19:01 <DocScrutinizer51> which, in my book, equals 3 "unused" channels
May 30 19:20:46 <DocScrutinizer51> don't mess with an EE ;-P
May 30 19:22:05 <DocScrutinizer51> vi_____: esp not with a badass EE like me ;-)
May 30 19:22:44 <DocScrutinizer51> vi_____: I'm temped to kick you, just to see if your e-peen gets longer or shorter on rejoin
May 30 19:22:49 <DocScrutinizer51> ;-P
May 30 19:23:47 <DocScrutinizer51> vi_{5}: this is really nasty!
May 30 19:23:48 <Estel_> vi_, in this channel discussion, DocScrutinizer is right.
May 30 19:24:03 <Estel_> standard sewttingsa have only 3 totally non-interferring channels
May 30 19:24:28 <Estel_> ho ever, klea problem soudns like ep[rfect example of lack of contact with antenna
May 30 19:24:55 <Estel_> he got -69 holding device 10 cm from AP, and -89 when holding it 3 meters away
May 30 19:25:07 <Estel_> tyr to unscrew You N900 wifi antenna totally, and You'll have same resulots
May 30 19:25:19 <DocScrutinizer51> that's a bit low
May 30 19:25:22 <DocScrutinizer51> for the 3m
May 30 19:25:50 <Estel_> blaming bleeblaming bleeding-edge drivers ias bullshit, they're well tested, but he also tried stockj
May 30 19:25:55 <Estel_> yea
May 30 19:26:07 <Estel_> and very high drop with distance
May 30 19:26:12 <DocScrutinizer51> for 10cm I'd not be surprised his RX amp gets so terribly into clipping that no detection of AP is possible :-P
May 30 19:26:16 <Estel_> IIRC, N900 without antenna at all act like that
May 30 19:26:20 <Estel_> of course
May 30 19:26:53 <Estel_> still, I'm pretty sure it's not software related
May 30 19:27:13 <Estel_> ...as long as I can be sure investigating it from IRC :P
May 30 19:27:29 <Estel_> BTw, Currently, i've 5 N900's in front of me
May 30 19:27:29 <DocScrutinizer51> and quite obviously RX clipping would cause massive intermodulation and thus the WiFi wouldn't see *any* AP then
May 30 19:27:39 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, yep.
May 30 19:28:06 <Estel_> ...and I'm planning to run qtflow on it, then create something like inter-screen flow :P
May 30 19:28:14 <Estel_> will try to film it, as a kind of gail to lcuk
May 30 19:28:16 <Estel_> hail
May 30 19:28:22 <DocScrutinizer51> nah, that's definitely not a sw problem
May 30 19:28:24 * Estel_ loads updated writing modules from KP
May 30 19:28:46 <Estel_> anti-typo check 2.0 loaded
May 30 19:29:33 <DocScrutinizer51> that's either an environment with way too many BT and WLAN messing up everything, or even a leaking microwave or door-radar, or actually a broken antenna (least probable alternative)
May 30 19:29:52 <Estel_> Hm, broken antenna OR broken contact with antenna is most likely thing here.
May 30 19:29:57 <Estel_> easy test
May 30 19:30:14 <Estel_> unscrew 6 screws, open N900, stick fork to antenna contacts :P
May 30 19:30:24 <Estel_> if reception will improve, it's antenna.
May 30 19:30:24 <DocScrutinizer51> meh
May 30 19:30:59 <DocScrutinizer51> the hosiden or whatever test connector might be defect
May 30 19:31:07 <DocScrutinizer51> seen this many many times
May 30 19:32:06 <DocScrutinizer51> those friggin things are built and designed and specified for max 50 rounds
May 30 19:32:38 <DocScrutinizer51> so odds are a certain percentage breaks on first round
May 30 19:33:03 <DocScrutinizer51> another non-negligible percentage breaks on mere aging
May 30 19:33:37 <DocScrutinizer51> waaaay more frequent defect than contact spring of antenna getting 'dirty'
May 30 19:34:14 <Estel_> no,I don't mean that.
May 30 19:34:23 <Estel_> Hirose connectors are fragile, don't put fork nthere
May 30 19:34:25 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway you're aware BT and WLAN share one antenna?
May 30 19:34:42 <Estel_> I mean "stick fork to copper spring on N900 MB"
May 30 19:34:46 <Estel_> yes
May 30 19:34:49 <MohammadAG> whoever decided that's sane...
May 30 19:34:56 <DocScrutinizer51> what?
May 30 19:35:05 <DocScrutinizer51> sharing antenna? absolutely sane
May 30 19:35:22 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, that's why i'm designing adapter in N900's body replacement - user will need to connect it to hirose connectors only once...
May 30 19:35:29 <MohammadAG> in terms of device size and power, yes, in terms of everything else
May 30 19:35:32 <Estel_> And gain plugs for external antenna in outside of N900's body :)
May 30 19:35:43 <Estel_> MohammadAG, it's not like that.
May 30 19:35:48 <Estel_> Wifi and bt use samke frequency, almost
May 30 19:36:03 <Estel_> uusing one antenna is very OK, and don't affect performance.
May 30 19:36:12 <Estel_> if You don't like that, blame BT for using 2,4 at all :P
May 30 19:36:14 <MohammadAG> download a big file while listening to music over BT
May 30 19:36:21 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: it's absolutely irrelevant if you are using same antenna, or two separate antennae that aren't (separate)
May 30 19:36:24 <Estel_> MohammadAG, using 2 antennas won't help there
May 30 19:36:37 <Estel_> still both antennas will pick up same frequency
May 30 19:36:38 <MohammadAG> then why does the N900 perform terribly there?
May 30 19:36:46 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: yep
May 30 19:36:53 <MohammadAG> whereas other devices don't
May 30 19:36:58 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: *every* device does
May 30 19:37:00 <Estel_> MohammadAG, smart BT devices "know" how to cooperate with wlan
May 30 19:37:11 <Estel_> N900's BT is also able to do that, but it depends on peripheral device
May 30 19:37:20 <Estel_> i.e. headphone
May 30 19:37:25 <DocScrutinizer51> there's so called n-wire-coexistence
May 30 19:37:37 <DocScrutinizer51> where n = [2, 3, 4]
May 30 19:37:50 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer51: switched channel... hit a bug... no TX anymore...
May 30 19:37:50 <Estel_> BTW, it's strange, I've tested it with definitelly *not* smart BT adapters, and listening to music was making 0 perceveiable impact on my WLAN
May 30 19:38:07 <Estel_> chem|st, it's becauise You use sucking stock kernel
May 30 19:38:15 <MohammadAG> Then my antenna's crappy
May 30 19:38:19 <MohammadAG> or defective
May 30 19:38:21 <Estel_> drop ash into Your head and install KP50 again in Your sister's N900
May 30 19:38:28 <Estel_> MohammadAG, not related to antenna
May 30 19:38:30 <MohammadAG> I was sending a file over BT once, and connecting to WLAN killed it
May 30 19:38:40 <Estel_> blame 2nd bluetooth device
May 30 19:38:50 <MohammadAG> an N900
May 30 19:38:54 <Estel_> and/or drivers, with coexistence disabled
May 30 19:39:18 <Estel_> BT coexistence with wlan require strict cooperation in terms of software and hardware. N900 got everything setup properly
May 30 19:39:23 <Estel_> and it's proven to work on correct setup
May 30 19:39:36 <Estel_> I think that Your 2nd device bluetooth module OR drivers/software settings were bad.
May 30 19:41:00 <Estel_> argh, damn google
May 30 19:41:08 <Estel_> it buggy me every 5 logins to give them my phone number
May 30 19:41:10 <Estel_> GTFO
May 30 19:41:18 * Estel_ by google, mean gmail
May 30 19:41:26 <Estel_> s/mean/means/
May 30 19:43:41 <Raimu> First I was wondering about the "drop ash" comment, but then I recalled it's a gesture of shame.
May 30 19:43:53 <Raimu> Sack cloth and ashes, like.
May 30 19:44:11 <DocScrutinizer51> F U Lenovo, PSU case is glued
May 30 19:44:18 <Raimu> I don't know whether it's prevalent in the English language, though. :D
May 30 19:46:31 <DocScrutinizer51> I wondered if he assumed chem|st has messybox installed in his brain ;-P
May 30 19:49:25 <DocScrutinizer51> though from IT I don't know the term "drop into", I'd rather think of the database term "drop table" which more is like delete rather than install
May 30 19:50:19 <DocScrutinizer51> so "drop ash" doesn't make sense, "drop busybox" would
May 30 19:51:00 * DocScrutinizer51 can't decide between scissors and hammer to 'repair' that Lenovo PSU
May 30 19:57:46 <vi_____> your going to 'fix' a switch mode psu with a hammer?
May 30 19:57:59 <Raimu> This sounds interesting.
May 30 19:58:26 <vi_____> if you are such a hot EE, explain PFC in 3 or less sentances.
May 30 20:03:42 <Raimu> Power factor correction, sentence 1: AC electricity is funny and gets angry when used on inconvenient-type loads.
May 30 20:04:08 <Raimu> Sentence 2: ??? Sentence 3: Profit
May 30 20:09:18 <Raimu> (I had to cheat and look this up, because I think I dozed through our AC classes way back when) Basically PFC is a filtering placed on a power supply that makes it draw current the way an ideal resistive load would.
May 30 20:10:47 <Raimu> "In this case, the voltage and current are in phase and the reactive power consumption is zero."
May 30 20:18:04 <vi_____> that is the bit that breaks my head
May 30 20:18:15 <vi_____> the voltage an current are in phase.
May 30 20:18:18 <vi_____> wtf
May 30 20:18:26 <vi_____> how can the be out of phase
May 30 20:18:33 <vi_____> ^they
May 30 20:20:12 <Raimu> Long ago I think I mainly just accepted that AC is scary and weird.
May 30 20:24:29 <vi_____> I heard it is made of magnets.
May 30 20:24:41 <Raimu> "Fucking magnets, how do they work?"
May 30 20:26:05 <vi_____> PFC I think.
May 30 20:26:17 <Raimu> :D
May 30 20:26:38 <vi_____> PFC is about as hard to grasp as VM tuning.
May 30 20:29:00 <MohammadAG> speaking of wihch
May 30 20:29:02 <MohammadAG> which
May 30 20:29:15 <MohammadAG> what would happen if I connect an AC circuit to a DC one?
May 30 20:30:03 <DocScrutinizer51> you invented a new rockmusic group
May 30 20:30:13 <Raimu> *rimshot*
May 30 20:31:11 <Raimu> MohammadAG: This one is easily tested! Some alligator clips, wire, wall AC socket and a DC battery.
May 30 20:32:09 <DocScrutinizer51> PSU won't usually mind
May 30 20:32:36 <DocScrutinizer51> good old iron core tranformers though
May 30 20:32:56 <MohammadAG> <DocScrutinizer51> you invented a new rockmusic group
May 30 20:32:56 <MohammadAG> heh
May 30 20:33:46 <DocScrutinizer51> ~wiki AC/DC
May 30 20:33:50 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC/DC (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{About|the band}} {{Use Australian English|date=November 2011}}{{Use dmy dates|date=November 2011}} {{Featured article}} {{pp-move-indef}} {{Infobox musical artist | name = AC/DC | image = ACDC In Tacoma 2009.jpg | alt = Rock band in performance on a well-lit but hazy stage. At the back is a guitarist; there are two more guitarists, a vocalist off to one side, and a drummer in the rear. ...
May 30 20:34:45 <DocScrutinizer51> oops, seems it's not THAT new
May 30 20:36:50 <doc|home> o.O
May 30 20:38:32 <Raimu> The developer of qSpot ran into a snag when Spotify updated libspotify (a closed binary API) and now it depends on glibc 2.7 instead of an earlier one we've got with Maemo.
May 30 20:38:38 <Raimu> How could one work over this?
May 30 20:40:24 <DocScrutinizer51> well, generally libs either are ABI compatible, or have distinct names
May 30 20:41:58 <DocScrutinizer51> if somebody messed things up there, you can start your stuff with "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=./here/my/glib-version/ <spotify-app>"
May 30 20:42:36 <DocScrutinizer51> maybe you need to fix some minor typos in my suggestions
May 30 20:45:32 <DocScrutinizer51> man ld-linux
May 30 20:46:45 <DocScrutinizer51> or even /lib/ld-linux.so.*  [OPTIONS] [PROGRAM [ARGUMENTS]]
May 30 20:49:17 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway WTF does this app depend on glibc2.7 at all?
May 30 20:49:29 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, who doesn't know AC/DC?
May 30 20:49:45 <Raimu> DocScrutinizer51: libspotify? Hell if I know.
May 30 20:50:21 <DocScrutinizer51> you could try and just create a symlink
May 30 20:50:32 <MohammadAG> LD_LIBRARY_PATH is the way to go
May 30 20:50:41 <MohammadAG> assuming glibc 2.7 compiles
May 30 20:50:42 <DocScrutinizer51> back to whatever version glibc you got
May 30 20:50:54 <Raimu> DocScrutinizer51: And pray for compatibility?
May 30 20:51:18 <DocScrutinizer51> sure
May 30 20:51:28 <Raimu> I've done that once with dependencies...
May 30 20:51:34 <Raimu> It felt shameful.
May 30 20:51:52 <DocScrutinizer51> praying helps I've been told - if you pray to the right diety
May 30 20:53:00 <DocScrutinizer51> if it doesn't, you either reconsider your choice of diety, or you sacrifice a hamster
May 30 20:53:22 <MohammadAG> OVER MY DEAD BODY!
May 30 20:53:33 <Raimu> If my microwave oven has been blessed by my deity, sure.
May 30 20:53:41 <Raimu> I need to check that with an exorcist or something.
May 30 20:55:33 <Raimu> Anyway, thanks. I'll test and relay the info.
May 30 21:01:12 <chem|st> Estel_: as councelor you should behave like a role-model... speaking of asking people to install kernelpanik *cough* power is it NOT
May 30 21:01:28 <Estel_> sorry, but above statement is idiotic
May 30 21:01:33 <chem|st> and I am speaking of my router
May 30 21:01:34 <Estel_> have You ever tried kernel-power since Titan's era?
May 30 21:01:51 <Estel_> (i.e. above version kp46)
May 30 21:02:08 <Estel_> it's so big FUD, that I'm spechless, actually, which, as you may know already, doesn't happen very often.
May 30 21:02:39 <Estel_> anyway, CSSU and KP are two major community projects, that are going to get *a lot* support from Council, that is guaranteed.
May 30 21:02:49 <chem|st> Estel_: speaking of "why is $that broken with KP?"
May 30 21:02:59 <Estel_> some examples, pleasE?
May 30 21:03:07 <chem|st> you did the last days
May 30 21:03:11 <chem|st> dpowertop?
May 30 21:03:13 <Estel_> or You rather mean "why it wasn't working in kp42 or kp46"?
May 30 21:03:19 <Estel_> FUD.
May 30 21:03:30 <Estel_> powertop is broken, and it was confirmed beyond any doubts.
May 30 21:03:41 <Estel_> freemangordon was irritated by this bullshi9t enough to check sources already
May 30 21:03:54 <Estel_> and posted on IRC what is broken and why, search for it, if You want.
May 30 21:03:57 <chem|st> last time I checked everything from extras and nokia worked...
May 30 21:04:02 <Estel_> also, powertop is working great, btw, only screwed thyink is frequency listing
May 30 21:04:17 <Estel_> last time I checked powertop in extras haven't had source published ;)
May 30 21:04:31 <Estel_> now, everything from nokia and extras work with KP, afaik
May 30 21:04:41 <Estel_> while *not* everything from extras work without kp
May 30 21:04:52 <Estel_> honestly, please, answer this - have you *ever* tried KP above version 46?
May 30 21:05:20 <Estel_> since Pali and freemangordon took maintainership over it, it *never* created any problems.
May 30 21:05:25 <chem|st> no I did not
May 30 21:05:31 <Estel_> spreading such FUD is not noly irritating, but even harmful.
May 30 21:05:37 <Estel_> so, please, stop spreading FUD.
May 30 21:06:02 <Estel_> I agree that some things were badly broken with Titan's version - especially, that Titan dissapeared without a single note and left it unamaintained...
May 30 21:06:04 <chem|st> Estel_: asking everyone to install kp is even worse so stop it
May 30 21:06:10 <Estel_> ...see bq27x00_battery related things...
May 30 21:06:29 <Estel_> i'm not asking everyone to install it. ho ever, if someone want device free from stock kernel bugs, he/she should install KP IMO
May 30 21:06:32 <chem|st> it does not fix all problems
May 30 21:06:33 <Estel_> stock kernel is obsolete IMO
May 30 21:06:47 <Estel_> nno problem, as sitting with stock doesn't fix ANY problem ;)
May 30 21:07:12 <Venemo> hey Estel_ 
May 30 21:07:18 <chem|st> if kp is so "good" why isnt it in cssu already?
May 30 21:07:19 <Venemo> congrats for your election! :)
May 30 21:07:21 <Estel_> BTWhi Venemo :)
May 30 21:07:24 <Estel_> thanks a lot :)
May 30 21:07:35 * SpeedEvil wonders if his one reported kernel bug got fixed in KP.
May 30 21:07:49 <Estel_> BTW, chem|st, if You find anything that KP is doing wrong - so people shouldn't install it - fel free to ping me with example.
May 30 21:08:05 <Estel_> because for not, it's total FUD, in fact sounds like very essence of FUD
May 30 21:08:21 <chem|st> you started me!
May 30 21:08:27 <Estel_> ;)
May 30 21:08:31 <Estel_> SpeedEvil, which one?
May 30 21:08:43 <Estel_> if it wasn't, it may be good idea to re-report it to freemangordon or Pali
May 30 21:08:45 <chem|st> you didn't even ask what my problem is but suggested KP
May 30 21:08:45 <SpeedEvil> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=774076
May 30 21:08:50 <SpeedEvil> The one referred to in this post
May 30 21:08:52 <Estel_> chem|st, you explained Your problem
May 30 21:08:58 <SpeedEvil> Bogus awks.
May 30 21:09:31 <chem|st> I said no TX...
May 30 21:09:37 <Estel_> chem|st, btw, whatever the reason wa,s it's not fair to depreciate freemangordon's and Pali's work by spreading bullshit'ish FUD about KP
May 30 21:09:47 <chem|st> that isn't really a descriptive one...
May 30 21:09:51 * Estel_ is investigating SpeedEvil's link
May 30 21:09:57 <SpeedEvil> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11091
May 30 21:09:58 <SpeedEvil> that.
May 30 21:09:59 <povbot> 04Bug 11091: Bug in cpufreq module - exposed in /proc/timer_stats
May 30 21:10:26 <SpeedEvil> I tried tracking this down, but I got stuck in a maze of twisty sourcecode all alike.
May 30 21:11:02 <SpeedEvil> this is, however, I suspect one of the less important bugs out there. :)
May 30 21:11:08 <Estel_> SpeedEvil, dunno, will ask freemangordon. could You, please, elaborate in noob-friendly way, how I can check if i'm hit by it myself?
May 30 21:11:15 <Estel_> wlel, probably yes ;)
May 30 21:11:21 <SpeedEvil> powertop
May 30 21:11:28 <SpeedEvil> It shows a bogus awk.
May 30 21:11:34 <Estel_> yea, understand that, but what to check? those awk ticks?
May 30 21:12:09 <Estel_> 37 | 8D| awk | cpufreq_governor_dbs (delayed_work_timer_fn)
May 30 21:12:16 <Estel_> something like that shouldn't appear at all?
May 30 21:12:20 <SpeedEvil> Nope.
May 30 21:12:21 <Estel_> I'm doing powertop test now
May 30 21:12:27 <SpeedEvil> Awk isn't actually running.
May 30 21:12:46 <Estel_> roger roger, testing that
May 30 21:13:18 <Estel_> I doesn't have anything awk related in powertop output.
May 30 21:13:20 <SpeedEvil> The call mentioned is run to see if it needs to change frequency.
May 30 21:13:44 <SpeedEvil> What is shown against the cpufreq_governor process?
May 30 21:13:57 <SpeedEvil> what process is shown against that call
May 30 21:14:16 <Estel_> sec, I'm uploading powertop log
May 30 21:15:43 <Estel_> http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?7dfe55fd658ab92d#L3C5Qr2w+9wMti3Yta+xf1bI+FM3GdSr8TtKshdA6GM=
May 30 21:16:12 <Estel_> AFK for a 15-20 minutes
May 30 21:20:23 <SpeedEvil> yeah - the above - 'preinit' - is bogus.
May 30 21:21:35 <freemangordon> SpeedEvil: I see
May 30 21:22:27 <SpeedEvil> As someone affected by this bug - I would suggest this is almost irrelevant. I only reported it as there were people actually working on the kernel, being paid for it.
May 30 21:22:36 <freemangordon> SpeedEvil: Are you aware if there is a bug against KP? There is no AFAIK
May 30 21:22:48 <SpeedEvil> I doubt it.
May 30 21:23:11 <SpeedEvil> it will at worst confuse people trying to track down power issues.
May 30 21:23:22 <freemangordon> yeah
May 30 21:24:04 <SpeedEvil> OTOH - if someone happens to know where it's set - then just setting the call to cpufreq_governor_dbs to <kernel core> would be a 1 min fix.
May 30 21:24:09 <SpeedEvil> (possibly)
May 30 21:25:04 <freemangordon> No idea. BTW i looked a day or two ago in cpufreq/cpuidle code, it is like spaghetti :(
May 30 21:25:44 <SpeedEvil> yeah.
May 30 21:25:53 <SpeedEvil> I got stuck, and couldn't see what set it.
May 30 21:26:43 <freemangordon> Anyway, filing a bug report agains KP is not a bad idea, unlike that against omap1, it actually could get solved :). Might take some time though
May 30 21:27:42 <freemangordon> Soon or later I have to somehow fix that nan% in powertop
May 30 21:28:24 <SpeedEvil> I'd hoped to build a better powertop.
May 30 21:28:34 <Estel_> freemangordon, that's why I fight with flame any FUD's against KP - it's the least I can do.
May 30 21:28:38 <SpeedEvil> But I got stalled largely as nokia set fire to everything.
May 30 21:28:55 <freemangordon> SpeedEvil, according to IDA powertop is not so hard to be REd
May 30 21:29:02 <Estel_> I got murderous instinct, when someone insist that installing KP is bad thing, for some murky, unverified, FUD'ish reasons
May 30 21:29:13 <SpeedEvil> powertop is really simple.
May 30 21:29:18 <SpeedEvil> - if you look at the input files.
May 30 21:29:27 <Estel_> Well, maybe not to the point of saying "You won't hijack KP", but still.
May 30 21:29:45 <Estel_> ( DocScrutinizer, it's just a small punb, I hope You won't get offended )
May 30 21:29:46 <freemangordon> SpeedEvil, which input files you mean - thuse in /sys?
May 30 21:29:54 <freemangordon> *those
May 30 21:29:57 <SpeedEvil> The CPUfreq/active breakdown is easy. IRQ is easy. PID/'wakeups is easy
May 30 21:30:17 <SpeedEvil> I don't understand the power domain breakups - I'd have to research that
May 30 21:30:30 <SpeedEvil> And the totals are also easy
May 30 21:30:37 <freemangordon> actually AIUI what powertop does is to read and print sysfs nodes, nothing more
May 30 21:30:39 <SpeedEvil> It's not worth REing
May 30 21:30:39 <Estel_> SpeedEvil, we would, literally *love* to see Your contributing to KP in any way, especially via kernel-development. No irony here - it's just that kernel devs are very needed.
May 30 21:30:51 <Estel_> freemangordon and Pali are doing epic things, but they're only two here :)
May 30 21:31:32 <SpeedEvil> I haven't actually done kernel code, and unfortunately, all my time at the moment is spent doing pointless unproductive stuff like reading hundreds of pages of court jugements.
May 30 21:32:02 <freemangordon> SpeedEvil, yeah, writing it from scratch is mybe a better idea
May 30 21:32:07 <freemangordon> *maybe
May 30 21:32:37 <freemangordon> Now we only have to find a volunteer for the job :D
May 30 21:33:10 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management
May 30 21:33:17 <SpeedEvil> Contains a somewhat useful script.
May 30 21:34:15 <freemangordon> On the side note: I am almost ready with REing of libfacebookcommon.so, the one I suspect is guilty for broken FB on n900
May 30 21:34:22 <SpeedEvil> :)
May 30 21:35:17 <Estel_> freemangordon, then send Nokia inco
May 30 21:35:20 <Estel_> invoice*
May 30 21:35:27 <Estel_> for fixing something that was broken from very release
May 30 21:35:43 <freemangordon> yeah, two functions remaining - facebook_login and facebook_request_free
May 30 21:35:52 <SpeedEvil> I have doubts that will work :)
May 30 21:36:04 <freemangordon> sending a invoice?
May 30 21:36:11 <Estel_> erm, sorry for bothering, but don't have google in hand (I'm on 10 kbps connection at the moment) - who remember command to check Hw revision?
May 30 21:36:12 <freemangordon> That NEVER works :)
May 30 21:36:13 <Estel_> uname what?
May 30 21:36:37 <Estel_> so send them two gangstas meant to "get loan paid"
May 30 21:36:43 <freemangordon> Estel_, osso-product-info or something
May 30 21:37:15 <Estel_> I'm having 5 devices in front of me, want to check if maybe I've luck by finding "holy revision" ;)
May 30 21:37:28 <Estel_> then, i'll install qtflow on it all and make a "family photo"
May 30 21:38:13 <Estel_> eh, stock kernel - can't reliably turn device on, while connected to charger
May 30 21:38:18 <Estel_> sure people, stay on stock ;)
May 30 21:39:02 <SpeedEvil> i don't think any kernel bugs as such are much annoying me.
May 30 21:39:13 <SpeedEvil> more sw ones.
May 30 21:39:17 <Estel_> true, it was rather irony.
May 30 21:40:40 <Estel_> osso-product-info doesn't show hw revision :/
May 30 21:40:47 <freemangordon> BTW talking about bugs in KP, I think there is at least one, and it was introduced by Pali,. But I am waiting for his exams to finish.
May 30 21:40:53 <Estel_> aye, i'll oppen google in text mode
May 30 21:41:02 <Estel_> and hope that this behemot will show me results in 5 minutes or so :LP
May 30 21:41:56 <freemangordon> i.e. echoing "0" to unlock fmtx leads to 100% CPU usage
May 30 21:42:33 <freemangordon> chem|st: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/kernel-cssu
May 30 21:42:51 <freemangordon> still only in -devel
May 30 21:45:03 <Venemo> interesting to see that there's still life in Fremantle :)
May 30 21:46:37 <chem|st> freemangordon: I know, I always have an eye for $user
May 30 21:47:02 <chem|st> meaning as long as something is still ment devel it is not for $user
May 30 21:49:40 <freemangordon> chem|st: sure thing, but honestly, if we put OC (and Pali's bug) aside, KP (v50) and kernel-cssu are rock-stable. Not that we should put them into $users throats tomorrow :)
May 30 21:50:56 * Woody14619 LOLs a  Estel_'s "You won't hijack KP" pun. :)
May 30 21:51:48 <Woody14619> So... All this chatter about "facebook" being broken on n900... What exactly is broken?  Image upload?  Chat?
May 30 21:52:12 <freemangordon> uploader and widget
May 30 21:52:27 <Woody14619> k.   I don't use the widget, but uploader seems to work fine for me?
May 30 21:52:27 <freemangordon> AFAIK
May 30 21:52:35 <freemangordon> now?
May 30 21:52:43 <freemangordon> hmm, let me try
May 30 21:52:46 <Woody14619> I just uploaded a pic yesterday.
May 30 21:52:59 <Woody14619> I'll push one now to be sure...
May 30 21:53:07 <freemangordon> ok
May 30 21:56:48 <Woody14619> yeah... slow, but it works fine.
May 30 21:58:24 <freemangordon> that is strange, I have a "Transfer error" here
May 30 21:58:43 <Woody14619> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4069393460262.2176808.1445109538&type=3&l=d7a987c01b     Check the last picture (lawnmower).
May 30 21:59:31 <freemangordon> Woody14619, yeah, saw that
May 30 21:59:35 <freemangordon> WTF?
May 30 21:59:37 <SpeedEvil> Woody14619: What does that '*' say?
May 30 21:59:57 <SpeedEvil> '5 horsepower thermal, if on fire'
May 30 22:00:37 <Woody14619> I think that means when fully charged and free-spinning. :)
May 30 22:01:18 <Woody14619> Now I'll note something odd... when I run it over T-Mobil, it works fine.  Over wifi at work, works fine.  Wifi from home?  I get a transfer error every time.
May 30 22:01:45 <Woody14619> But it's been doing that for me for about 6 months... so... I figured it was TW and FB arguing about spam or such.
May 30 22:01:53 <freemangordon> SOPA? :P
May 30 22:02:10 <Woody14619> :P I hope not..
May 30 22:03:00 <Woody14619> SpeedEvil: Love that little mower. :)  Very nice, when it works.
May 30 22:03:15 * SpeedEvil needs to strip the carb on his strimmer.
May 30 22:03:23 <chem|st> Woody14619: just tried... upload is not working for me
May 30 22:03:43 <freemangordon> Not working over GPRS too
May 30 22:04:02 <Woody14619> Hmm... See for me it works every time over gprs.
May 30 22:04:35 <Woody14619> freemangordon, have you unlinked and relinked to FB lately?  I did that a while ago because the app wanted post permissions and didn't have them.
May 30 22:04:49 <freemangordon> tried with WLAN and GPR, no joy
May 30 22:04:49 <Woody14619> And it was always giving me an error because of that.
May 30 22:04:55 <freemangordon> Woody14619, no
May 30 22:05:09 <freemangordon> Should I?
May 30 22:05:23 <Woody14619> I had to completely diban the app on FB, uninstall the plugin, then reinstall and re-auth with it.
May 30 22:05:34 <Woody14619> Maybe that's the issue?
May 30 22:05:40 <freemangordon> aaah. I see, let me try
May 30 22:05:42 <Woody14619> Couldn't hurt to try?
May 30 22:16:23 <freemangordon> Woody14619, cannot validate account
May 30 22:16:42 <freemangordon> "no internet connection available" bullshit
May 30 22:17:31 <freemangordon> though I didn;t uninstall the plugin
May 30 22:18:31 <Woody14619> Wait.. what?
May 30 22:18:57 <Woody14619> So you diabled the app on FB only?
May 30 22:19:10 <freemangordon> I deleted it. on FB
May 30 22:19:26 <Woody14619> And it won't re-enable on the N900?
May 30 22:19:32 <freemangordon> yep
May 30 22:20:04 <freemangordon> pressing "validate" results in "no network connection available. operation canceled" banner
May 30 22:20:40 <freemangordon> BTW there was an explanation from MohammadAG why it does not work
May 30 22:21:29 <Woody14619> Ok?  What was the explination?  (Perhapse I have some glitch that lets it still work?)
May 30 22:21:58 <freemangordon> FB changed theit API, the one used on n900 is deprecated
May 30 22:22:38 <Woody14619> Well, yeah, except it still works for me?  It also looks like the app page is gone.
May 30 22:23:23 <Woody14619> The pic I posted says "via Nokia N900", where the later is a link to the facebook app.  But the app page is gone. (https://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=67878695711 
May 30 22:23:58 <freemangordon> :) nice
May 30 22:25:03 <Woody14619> So, at some level the app is still there... and working... But at some level it's gone. :P
May 30 22:25:07 <freemangordon> Woody14619, maybe you are served by some server which is still not updated
May 30 22:26:16 <Woody14619> Perhapse?  Maybe the larger server houses have their own "leaf" device to interface w/ FB?  So TMobile & Verizon still are happy, but TW is not?
May 30 22:26:25 * Sc0rpius sighs
May 30 22:27:22 <wmarone> ok so the widget et. al. is dead
May 30 22:27:31 <wmarone> heh
May 30 22:27:33 <freemangordon> anyway, I almost finished REing the part with facebook_login function in it, lets hope it is the correct library
May 30 22:35:59 <MohammadAG> Application page was also deleted for sociality, apparently you have to use timeline now 
May 30 22:36:07 <MohammadAG> So it's not the reason
May 30 22:36:20 <MohammadAG> If it still works for someone it should work for everyone
May 30 22:37:15 <freemangordon> MohammadAG, it definitely does not work here whike works for Woody14619
May 30 22:37:19 <freemangordon> *while
May 30 22:38:01 <Woody14619> I have timeline, yet still can use it.
May 30 22:38:05 <MohammadAG> freemangordon: Try extending the token
May 30 22:38:13 <MohammadAG> I meant timeline for app pages
May 30 22:38:56 <freemangordon> MohammadAG, you lost me
May 30 22:38:59 <MohammadAG> They changed the comment system though, that's for sure
May 30 22:39:10 <Woody14619> ahh... I was also noting a few other apps have the same "icon" as the one that does the uploading.  They all don't support https browsing.  So I'm trying to disable that now to see if I can see it with "normal" http...
May 30 22:39:11 <MohammadAG> freemangordon: Extend the access token used
May 30 22:39:28 <MohammadAG> It should be saved in gconf
May 30 22:39:47 <freemangordon> where am I supposed to do that?
May 30 22:40:05 <freemangordon> 765c02438771b10df50fe933bfaa7734?
May 30 22:41:46 <Woody14619> YIPES!  Ok.  So, Hermes, for example, has the same app icon.  When I browse to it unsecured, it's showing me an iframe with what looks like a CGI input dump.
May 30 22:41:48 <Venemo> hey
May 30 22:41:52 <Venemo> this is awesome! :)
May 30 22:42:04 <Venemo> my app got accepted to the device program in the Qt 5 category :)
May 30 22:42:19 <Woody14619> Wow! Congrats Venemo!
May 30 22:42:36 <Venemo> thx Woody14619 :)
May 30 22:43:04 <Venemo> do you guys think it would be rude to tell qgil that I'd like a white N9?
May 30 22:43:23 <Woody14619> LOL! K... I think I know who maintains this (or is supposed to) on FB.  @INC=/home/jaffa/lib/perl-mine, /etc/perl,...
May 30 22:43:52 <freemangordon> MohammadAG, there are two "cryptic" values in libfacebookcommon.so.0.0.0, both of them give "Invalid OAuth access token." where trying to check the permissions with https://graph.facebook.com/me/permissions?access_token=xxxxx
May 30 22:44:04 <MohammadAG> Venemo: No, they're not made of diamonds
May 30 22:44:29 <Venemo> MohammadAG: they're not made of diamonds, but I'm bored about every gadget being black
May 30 22:45:45 <Venemo> so if possible, I'd like the N9 in white. if this is absolutely not possible, I'd like the blue one. if that's not possible either, I'd take the black one. under no circumstances would I want a pink one. I don't have a problem with that color, but most of my acquintances would laugh at me.
May 30 22:46:26 <jacekowski> if i could get one for free i would even take the pink one
May 30 22:46:40 <MohammadAG> I wouldn't
May 30 22:46:46 <jacekowski> to be honest, i would take pink one just for laughs
May 30 22:46:47 <MohammadAG> I hate magneta/pink
May 30 22:47:40 <MohammadAG> Cyan is a colour I wouldn't have bought on my own
May 30 22:47:50 <MohammadAG> But the lumia I got is cyan and I love it
May 30 22:49:05 <Venemo> yeah
May 30 22:49:21 <Venemo> well, I respect everyone's opinion
May 30 22:49:27 <Venemo> but my favourite N9 is the white N9
May 30 22:56:50 <Venemo> MohammadAG: so, would it be okay if I told this to Quim?
May 30 22:58:05 <MohammadAG> He won't bite your head off if you ask ;)
May 30 23:00:05 <Venemo> how should I ask? in mail, or in a PM on TMO, or in a comment under my application in the wiki?
May 30 23:03:45 <MohammadAG> Mail if you got accepted
May 30 23:07:07 <MohammadAG> Gotta hit the sack, night
May 30 23:08:22 <Venemo> night :)
May 30 23:08:28 <Venemo> I'll go too. bye!
May 30 23:15:17 <Woody14619> I'm off to home as well... Good luck w/ the FB stuff freemangordon.
May 30 23:17:59 <Estel_> gratz Venemo!
May 30 23:18:09 <Estel_> BTW, isn't ehite too applei'ish?;)
May 30 23:18:15 <Estel_> s/ehite/white/
May 30 23:18:16 <infobot> Estel_ meant: BTW, isn't white too applei'ish?;)
May 30 23:18:31 <Estel_> BTW, given device for free, I would accept event pink & glitter one
May 30 23:18:58 <Estel_> hopefully, they haven't made any pink N950's ;)
May 30 23:21:14 <SpeedEvil> Estel_: with fluttershy on the back?
May 30 23:21:32 <Estel_> with butterflies
May 30 23:22:10 <Estel_> Would create theme related to "Under the Pink" album
May 30 23:22:15 <Venemo> Estel_: :)
May 30 23:22:29 <Estel_> and would proudly use it as Tori Amos related stuff ;)
May 30 23:22:51 <Estel_> not that tori have much common with pink, hoever
May 30 23:23:18 <Venemo> Estel_: what, you haven't seen the pink N950?
May 30 23:23:35 <Estel_> Yea, i also haven't seen white mouses lately, or silver unicorns
May 30 23:23:44 <Estel_> although, someone have in signature "4x N950 silver"
May 30 23:23:48 <Estel_> whatever it means
May 30 23:24:17 <Venemo> well, there were some prototype silver N950s. their existence is denied publicly, but everyone knows they exist.
May 30 23:24:18 <Estel_> but, black is the color of the rainbow
May 30 23:24:24 <Estel_> yep.
May 30 23:24:32 <Estel_> But should I belive that some random noob got 4 of them?
May 30 23:24:34 <Venemo> such as the infamous "N9" leak from late 2010.
May 30 23:24:42 <Estel_> unless he bought some chinese fake ones, I doubt it
May 30 23:24:49 <Venemo> I don't care about random noobs
May 30 23:25:04 <Estel_> BTw, he submitted to CA
May 30 23:25:09 <Venemo> maybe he just wishes to have thise
May 30 23:25:10 <Hurrian> Venemo, didn't someone post about having a silver proto non-CE in the CA?
May 30 23:25:22 <Estel_> hbe isn't on any list with people who hjave received N950, so can't deny ;)
May 30 23:25:22 <Venemo> Hurrian: I dunno
May 30 23:25:36 <Estel_> Hurrian, it was that one I think
May 30 23:26:20 <Estel_> Hurrian, do You remember command to check hw revision?
May 30 23:26:31 <Hurrian> cat /proc/cpuinfo
May 30 23:26:38 <Estel_> thanks
May 30 23:26:51 <Estel_> ough
May 30 23:27:02 <Estel_> one of 5 N900's lying behind me on desk is 2204 revision
May 30 23:27:44 <Venemo> you have 5 N900s?
May 30 23:27:47 <Hurrian> Estel_, most of the differences between revisions seems to be on the outside
May 30 23:27:54 <Estel_> I know
May 30 23:27:57 <Hurrian> Venemo, you're not stocking up on N900s?
May 30 23:28:01 <Estel_> Venemo, only temporaly ;P
May 30 23:28:10 <Venemo> Hurrian: no, why?
May 30 23:28:21 <Estel_> Hurrian, although, some claim that PU is "better" on 2204
May 30 23:28:33 <Venemo> what could I do with an N900 anyway?
May 30 23:28:42 <Estel_> i.e. lower profiles while overcxlocking etc. Personally, I don't belive it ;)
May 30 23:28:54 <Estel_> Venemo, everything?
May 30 23:29:04 <Estel_> Hurrian, btw, what are those outside differencies?
May 30 23:29:18 <SpeedEvil> it's quite plausible that some devices have a newer version of chips.
May 30 23:29:21 <Venemo> Estel_: I use the N950 for everything :)
May 30 23:30:01 <Estel_> Venemo, honestly, currently, N900 is doing circles around N950 and N9 together, in terms of usability
May 30 23:30:07 <Estel_> and it seems it won't change in following months
May 30 23:30:19 <Estel_> sure, N950 got impressive hardware (RAM, RAM) but...
May 30 23:30:34 <Estel_> Nemo is kinda dissapointing for now - whole concept seems to be dumbed down itnerface...
May 30 23:30:35 <Venemo> Estel_: srsly? in what sense?
May 30 23:30:40 <Hurrian> Estel_, iirc it's got something to do with how slippery the keyboard is
May 30 23:30:43 <Estel_> packages are low due to change into rmp with Mer
May 30 23:30:46 <GeneralAntilles> Define "usability"
May 30 23:31:04 <Estel_> ammount of things You can achieve with it, especially re simulating desktop computer ;)
May 30 23:31:06 <Venemo> Estel_: I used to use my old N900 for a while when the N950 broke. the N900 felt sluggish.
May 30 23:31:19 <Estel_> Venemo, a matter of proper settings re swap etc
May 30 23:31:27 <SpeedEvil> i'm using my n900 more than my n950
May 30 23:31:29 <Estel_> N950 is great hardware, really
May 30 23:31:33 <Estel_> but
May 30 23:32:04 <Venemo> that being said, I used to use the N900 as a complete laptop replacement for weeks in 2009 and 2010. I just loved that thing :)
May 30 23:32:05 <Estel_> sad to say that, Fremantle beats up Harmattan a lot, and Mer is still on much development state
May 30 23:32:23 <Venemo> Fremantle beats Harmattan in which sense?
May 30 23:33:00 <Estel_> architexture - don't tell me you like frankenstein harmattan is (partly meego, partly maemo, partly whatsnot), UI (Harm one is much more closed)
May 30 23:33:11 <Estel_> + user side, i.e. available applications, etc
May 30 23:33:31 <Estel_> honestly, if I ever get N950/N9, first thing to get there will be Mer and probably, Nemo, despite flaws
May 30 23:33:40 <Venemo> it has a lot more fluent UI.
May 30 23:33:51 <Estel_> and that is because I don't belive in Cordia sucess, despite milestones being achieved
May 30 23:33:51 <Hurrian> Estel_, why not Cordia?
May 30 23:33:56 <Venemo> architecture is mostly the same, except for Aegis of course
May 30 23:34:07 <Estel_> would love to, but IMO Smoku isn't a kind of person who is interested in having more than 2 developers at all
May 30 23:34:17 <Estel_> Hurrian, I read Your mind ;)
May 30 23:34:22 <Estel_> well, I would love to be wrong...
May 30 23:34:42 <Estel_> but Cordia seems to be very niche project, with only 2 people working on it, and 0 interest in pulling mroe devs to it...
May 30 23:34:51 <Venemo> wat, smoku has 2 developers on Cordia? since when?
May 30 23:34:55 <Estel_> I'm afraid current milestone may be last, it will drown due to lack of working hands
May 30 23:34:56 <Hurrian> Estel_, yeah, kinda noticed the lack of interest on it
May 30 23:35:07 <Estel_> Venemo, he + another guy is working on it AFAIK
May 30 23:35:21 <Estel_> Hurrian, honestly, interest around Cordia was great, but smoku is just anti-social guy
May 30 23:35:27 <Hurrian> ah
May 30 23:35:27 <Venemo> lol
May 30 23:35:28 <Venemo> well
May 30 23:35:38 <Venemo> I used to have an interest in Cordia before the Harmattan times
May 30 23:35:40 <Estel_> and did *everything* to make it non-friendly for others to join
May 30 23:35:44 <Estel_> (my personal opinion)
May 30 23:35:59 <Venemo> in any case, I'm convinced that Cordia is not the way forward.
May 30 23:36:09 <Estel_> I would *love* to have hildonish UI on Mer, as Nemo irritates the hell outa me...
May 30 23:36:17 <Estel_> but don't belive it will be ever ready for everyday usage
May 30 23:36:28 <Estel_> Of course I may be wrong
May 30 23:36:39 <Estel_> maybe he is anti-social and such genius, that he will achieve everything alone
May 30 23:36:48 <Estel_> although, smoku is kinda well known for abandoning half-baked projects
May 30 23:37:07 <Estel_> almost every package that he maintain is on "update promise" for a year or 1,5
May 30 23:37:25 * SpeedEvil wishes he had a few million to drop on a sane phone platform.
May 30 23:37:33 <Estel_> disclaimer" all above is my personal view, not Council's one :P
May 30 23:37:35 <Hurrian> Estel_, which means if the fremantle community wants F-HD to be completed, more people need to be working on it
May 30 23:37:38 <Estel_> SpeedEvil, same here
May 30 23:37:54 <Estel_> Hurrian, yea, but some design decisions about Cordia irrtate people very much
May 30 23:38:00 <Estel_> have You been following Cordia mailing list?
May 30 23:38:12 <Hurrian> Estel_, not really
May 30 23:38:39 <Hurrian> also, what design decisions? The marina theme? Anything else should stick by Fremantle stuff
May 30 23:38:41 <Estel_> well, basically, this guy is jsut pivoting everything into way he imagine it and don't care much about other people view at all
May 30 23:38:52 <Estel_> i'm not talking about irrelevant things like theme
May 30 23:39:09 <SpeedEvil> Also - what's cordia.
May 30 23:39:14 * SpeedEvil hasn't been tracking.
May 30 23:39:23 <Estel_> 0 interest for documenting project in a way that other can join development in-middle
May 30 23:39:32 <Hurrian> SpeedEvil, Fremantle-Hildon-Desktop for MeeGo/Mer
May 30 23:39:35 <Estel_> SpeedEvil, Cordia is UX for Mer
May 30 23:39:37 <SpeedEvil> Ah.
May 30 23:39:44 <Estel_> re-creation of HD for Mer
May 30 23:39:52 <Estel_> of course not re-suing closed blobs
May 30 23:39:52 <SpeedEvil> i see.
May 30 23:40:11 <Hurrian> Estel_, not really re-creation, more like "porting and using newer stuff"
May 30 23:40:14 <Venemo> in my opinion, the right way forward would be a QML-based UX on top of Mer.
May 30 23:40:37 <Estel_> Hurrian, agree, but porting only open parts
May 30 23:40:48 <Estel_> and re-creating closed ones
May 30 23:40:55 <Hurrian> also, I noticed, the hildon-desktop in the Maemo 5 SDK has most of the closed components stripped out
May 30 23:40:58 <Estel_> would be sane ides, *if* done properly
May 30 23:41:13 <Estel_> although, it's a shit house re motivation and gaining interest, and gaining developers and...
May 30 23:41:24 <Estel_> well, Gnome is shithouse re motivating others, yet it's alive, so... :P
May 30 23:41:30 <Estel_> ...I may be wrong in all above. who knows
May 30 23:41:37 <Estel_> although, I wouldn't buy Cordia stocks now.
May 30 23:42:24 <Estel_> I still can't get why Mer decided to not use .deb
May 30 23:42:32 <Estel_> I understand "superiority" arguments...
May 30 23:42:35 <Hurrian> Venemo, yeah, since many closed programs for Fremantly are being rewritten in QML
May 30 23:42:57 <Hurrian> Estel_, maybe they wanted to comply with the LSB or MeeGo?
May 30 23:42:58 <Estel_> but it will slow porting Fremantle userland programs by a order of magnitude or two
May 30 23:43:06 <Estel_> they we're not obliged to.
May 30 23:43:12 <Hurrian> ^^
May 30 23:43:49 <Venemo> well, Qt is definitely the way forward, and QML is definitely the way forward, regarding UI
May 30 23:44:14 <Venemo> in any case
May 30 23:44:17 <Venemo> I'll be sleeping
May 30 23:44:17 <Estel_> I'm not sure about QT being ultimate way forward, but, it isn't problematic either
May 30 23:44:20 <Venemo> good night :)
May 30 23:44:22 <Estel_> see ya!
May 30 23:44:32 <SpeedEvil> http://www2.b3ta.com/spot-the-giference/ - completely off-topic.
May 30 23:44:35 <SpeedEvil> kitty encoding.
May 30 23:44:42 <Venemo> Estel_: one more thing: it's not called "QT". It's called "Qt".
May 30 23:45:16 <Estel_> Venemo, sure thing.
May 30 23:45:22 <Estel_> Although i hope they're not religious about it?
May 30 23:45:34 <Estel_> cause i'm going to call it qt many times soon, when i don't have shift close by.
May 30 23:47:07 <Estel_> SpeedEvil, 8/16
May 30 23:47:32 <SpeedEvil> i got about 10/10 - then i got 6 wrong in a row
May 30 23:47:38 <Estel_> heh
May 30 23:47:46 <SpeedEvil> Some are easy - it's hard to tell with the blurry ones
May 30 23:47:52 <Estel_> Hurrian, 2 of 3 new N900's are 2204
May 30 23:48:05 <Estel_> again, what are the "external differencies" You were talking about?
May 30 23:48:16 <Estel_> SpeedEvil, yeah. And sepia/black n white ones too
May 30 23:48:21 <Estel_> but some were sneaky
May 30 23:48:40 <SpeedEvil> You could probably get most if you zoom
May 30 23:48:44 <Hurrian> Estel_, how new?
May 30 23:49:01 <Estel_> new aka arrived today
May 30 23:49:02 <Estel_> all used
May 30 23:49:05 <Hurrian> 2101 is still by far the most widespread revision
May 30 23:49:10 <Estel_> yep
May 30 23:49:17 <Estel_> my main N900 is 2101 and I'm very satisfied
May 30 23:52:17 <Hurrian> Estel_, external differences are the slippery-ness of the keyboard
May 30 23:52:29 <Hurrian> a friend has a 2204, and the keys are significantly shinier
May 30 23:55:32 <Estel_> Hurrian, erm, can't notice that on N900's I'm having here, despite different revisions
May 30 23:55:49 <Estel_> it seems that shinier keys = more "sandpappered" by fingers
May 31 01:43:15 <Sc0rpius> how do you guys know what revision of N900 you have?
May 31 01:44:05 <SpeedEvil> cat /proc/cpuingo
May 31 01:46:09 <Hurrian> cat /proc/cpuinfo
May 31 01:49:11 <Estel_> cat /proc/cpuinfo
May 31 01:49:22 <Estel_> what, I just though that i;ll join the party :P
May 31 02:09:47 <Sc0rpius> hmm lemme test
May 31 02:10:12 <Sc0rpius> :(
May 31 02:10:14 <Sc0rpius> 2101
May 31 02:10:45 <Sc0rpius> I knew I didn't have the shinier keys since my keyboard peeled and I had to replace it with a chinese one
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 31 02:59:58 2012