**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 31 02:59:58 2012
May 31 04:23:08 <kwtm> really?
May 31 05:08:41 <Sc0rpius> tmo down?
May 31 05:11:46 <beford> no
May 31 08:04:57 <Jaffa> Woody14619: freemangordon: You seemed to be talking about the Facebook app on the N900 (I don't know which) but also about Hermes (which is more than just a Facebook app)
May 31 08:05:27 <Jaffa> Woody14619: There are a few errors in handling authentication (not actually related to the CGI dump - it's just that Facebook requires a URL) which are tracked in Bugzilla. Patches welcome.
May 31 08:07:03 <freemangordon> Jaffa, hopefully today I will have compete RE of FB library used by FB widget and photo uploader responsible for login part
May 31 08:07:16 <freemangordon> Will put that on gitorious when ready
May 31 08:08:03 <freemangordon> Jaffa, you mean FB requires redirect URL?
May 31 08:25:48 <StyXman> k
May 31 08:30:04 <Jaffa> freemangordon: Yes, even for apps which aren't websites
May 31 08:30:58 <vi_> freemangordon: If you have a moment could you explain to me how you eneded up with the values for :
May 31 08:31:01 <vi_>  /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_async
May 31 08:31:05 <vi_> and
May 31 08:31:11 <vi_>  /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_sync?
May 31 08:31:27 <vi_> they are a little above default.
May 31 08:31:48 <vi_> Did you simply conclude that by increasing nr_requests you should have longer fifo timeoput?
May 31 08:31:52 <vi_> ^timeout
May 31 08:38:31 <freemangordon> Jaffa, yeah, I know that
May 31 08:39:38 <freemangordon> vi_, trial/error method, actually I was decompressing easy-debian while playinf with the values, no rationale behind, that is why I just left them on TMO
May 31 09:16:05 <vi_> freemangordon: holy shit.
May 31 09:16:53 <vi_> using ramz@128MB I just decompressed an easy debian image in < 1 minute.
May 31 09:55:43 <teotwaki> holy fucking crap
May 31 09:55:46 <teotwaki> We have a winner
May 31 09:56:32 <teotwaki> in the search of the worst candidacy possible, I demand SIFO
May 31 09:56:41 <teotwaki> Whose message, the whole message, was simply "any device".
May 31 10:10:17 <aparaatti> what are these other chanels for device pitching?
May 31 10:10:44 <chem|st> aparaatti: please elaborate
May 31 10:11:20 <aparaatti> chem|st:: there is the competition for which is allocated part of n950:s so where do the rest go? :)
May 31 10:12:32 <chem|st> it is written somewhere, 25 comunity awards 25 coding competition 25 Qt-devel and 25 somewhere...
May 31 10:12:44 <chem|st> or like that
May 31 10:13:02 <aparaatti> so what are the community and Qt-devel?
May 31 10:13:46 <aparaatti> or qt-devel mainly...
May 31 10:14:54 <aparaatti> but ok... gotta go
May 31 10:18:04 <chem|st> aparaatti: community awards are 25 devices for people doing good for the community in the past, qt-devel 25 devices is nokia's way to resurrect, coding competition devices as prizes for the annual competition...
May 31 10:18:34 <chem|st> me thinks it was on the mailinglist cannot find it...
May 31 10:19:12 <jozefk> I have a question about Nokia C2-01 and asking here because on #nokia channel there is nobody. I just want to change the language set on that phone and don't have any idea if that's possible to do and how? I need Serbian language on the phone.
May 31 10:21:22 <vi_> jozefk: I do not know how you found this channel, however I can tell you are really barking up the wrong tree.
May 31 10:22:02 <jozefk> somebody on #freenode told me to try here
May 31 10:22:06 <teotwaki> jozefk: as vi_ said, wrong channel.
May 31 10:22:13 <vi_> they were trolling you.
May 31 10:22:16 <vi_> However...
May 31 10:22:30 <vi_> Or they were trollling us.
May 31 10:22:50 <jozefk> ok. sorry then
May 31 10:22:53 <teotwaki> np
May 31 10:22:59 <vi_> If you change the C2 product code to the regoin that includes serbia and then reflash the phone software
May 31 10:23:11 <vi_> the language pack should be installed.
May 31 10:23:23 <jozefk> vi_, you have some link with guides for example?
May 31 10:23:43 <jozefk> can it be done on linux or win7?
May 31 10:24:27 <chem|st> jozefk: s40 languages are preset for your region
May 31 10:24:44 <chem|st> ah yeah vi_ said it
May 31 10:25:03 <jozefk> ok thanks for that info too
May 31 10:25:34 <vi_> jozefk: use windoze.
May 31 10:25:50 <jozefk> win7 64bit I mean
May 31 10:25:53 <vi_> jozefk: search the net for 'nemisis service suite change product code'.
May 31 10:25:54 <jozefk> that's what I have
May 31 10:26:07 <jozefk> and I have linux
May 31 10:26:08 <vi_> that should get you started.
May 31 10:26:14 <vi_> jozefk: then you are fucked
May 31 10:26:20 <vi_> linux is for homos
May 31 10:26:25 <jozefk> hahahahaha
May 31 10:26:32 <vi_> linux user==lUSER
May 31 10:26:38 <Raimu> vi_: I've used ramz with 128MB now for two days and it's ridiculously powerful.
May 31 10:26:54 <vi_> Raimu: Damn, you have blown my cover.
May 31 10:27:07 <jozefk> nemesis won't work on win7 64bit?
May 31 10:27:30 <vi_> jozefk: I have NFC.  Like we said we are nothing to do with nokia symbian devices.
May 31 10:27:48 <vi_> Raimu: yeah, I think I got lucky and accidentially stumbled on the right settings.
May 31 10:28:21 <vi_> If I try and tweak any of those values for 128MB the whole thing starts to fail, hard.
May 31 10:29:23 <vi_> Raimu: as best I can tell, those settings should not work!
May 31 10:29:51 <vi_> We need someone whos VM tuning and iostat to explain why it works.
May 31 10:30:04 <vi_> (or at least I do)
May 31 10:34:02 <jacekowski> jozefk: there are two ways of doing it
May 31 10:34:15 <jacekowski> jozefk: but you need phonenix for both
May 31 10:34:22 <jacekowski> jozefk: phoenix*
May 31 10:34:56 <jacekowski> jozefk: one involves changing product code to serbian version of it and flashing firmware for that product code
May 31 10:35:14 <jacekowski> jozefk: and then language will stay when you upgrade through pc suite
May 31 10:35:29 <jozefk> where to get phoenix and all other required things?
May 31 10:35:44 <jacekowski> jozefk: or you have to just flash required language pack
May 31 10:35:58 <jacekowski> changing product code pretty much voids your warranty
May 31 10:36:05 <jacekowski> flashing additonal language packs not so much
May 31 10:36:30 <jozefk> I don't care about warranty :) I like the more simple and faster way of getting serbian language on it
May 31 10:36:35 <jozefk> but I have no XP
May 31 10:36:42 <jozefk> only Win7 64bit
May 31 10:36:44 <jozefk> and linux
May 31 10:37:17 <jacekowski> get winxp then
May 31 10:38:10 <jozefk> if that's the only one way I will just go to some repairing shop instead and ask them to do it for me :) pay them some money and finish.
May 31 10:38:24 <vi_> jacekowski: You can use 'nemisis suite' which is far simpler program than phoenix.
May 31 10:39:06 <vi_> To change product code with just a USB cable. Then you use nokia suite to update to whatever firmware you want.
May 31 10:39:19 <vi_> AFAIK phoenix requires all sorts of funky hardware.
May 31 10:39:43 <jozefk> nemesis for S40 phones?
May 31 10:39:53 <jacekowski> vi_: no it doesn't
May 31 10:40:15 <jacekowski> vi_: phoenix can work with just usb cable
May 31 10:46:06 <chem|st> Estel_: I just made up my mind about those nokia device seeding, don't you think that "standard coders" should be not eligible as there are 75 devices for coding-only?!
May 31 10:47:06 <chem|st> Estel_: meaning CA devices for non-coders and coders with community projects like KP CSSU e.a. - only
May 31 10:48:43 <vi_> So does this mean my ITT thanks and MO karma are finally going to be useful?
May 31 10:52:32 <Hurrian> vi_, I think that was the point of the CA
May 31 10:52:32 <chem|st> vi_: if council decides to do as I propose, maybe ;)
May 31 10:52:50 <vi_> Finally, everything is coming up millhouse!
May 31 10:53:44 <chem|st> Hurrian: well if they include weekend-worrior-coders and weight that above non-coders, no non-coders apart of (I guess) 3 will get a device
May 31 10:54:58 <vi_> does scriptor==coder?
May 31 10:55:37 <chem|st> coders who turned their back to the community and got aware of the CA (and applied) should get something huge shoved up their behind
May 31 10:56:03 * chem|st is looking for his firefighter-boots
May 31 10:56:04 <vi_> chem|st: finally, you and I can agree on something.
May 31 10:56:21 <chem|st> vi_: lol we agree alot you just don't recognize
May 31 10:56:31 <Hurrian> chem|st, depends what you mean on turning their back on the community
May 31 10:57:13 <vi_> Hurrian: For example, if Titan turned up and said.  Yo, dawgs I heard u like My power kernel.  N9 now plox.
May 31 10:57:23 <chem|st> my way of discussing or entering discussions for maemo is biased by the fact that I like to at least pretend to have an opposite position and want to save $user lives
May 31 10:57:58 <vi_> Or Matan appeared and said 'I more or less invented CSSU, an n950 is essential to my needs.'
May 31 10:58:44 <vi_> Or Revdkathy.
May 31 10:58:44 <Hurrian> ah.
May 31 10:58:47 <chem|st> Hurrian: well, leaving it behind, coding some fancy tool but stopped looking out for >1year
May 31 10:59:27 <vi_> 'I have not actually been involved in over a year now, howver I herd there were som free fonez.  I can have?'
May 31 10:59:29 <Hurrian> but basically, you want the coders to be left out of the CA?
May 31 10:59:48 <chem|st> I do not know why n950s are essential to his needs in terms of cssu... or does he mean cssu for harmattan?
May 31 11:00:10 <Hurrian> (definition of coders being people who have published packages on the repos/store/etc)
May 31 11:00:13 <vi_> Hurrian: I think he means not taking coding into account when evaluating and entry for CA
May 31 11:00:21 <Hurrian> ah
May 31 11:00:24 <chem|st> Hurrian: at least those who did just port/code some apps
May 31 11:00:42 <vi_> chem|st: How do you even quantify a 'coder' anyway.
May 31 11:00:44 <Hurrian> makes sense.
May 31 11:00:54 <chem|st> there are many coders heavily involved with the community which should be eligible
May 31 11:01:14 <Hurrian> vi_, yeah, that's a problem: package support does intermingle with community involement
May 31 11:01:21 <chem|st> when it comes to that the list is very short and most of them are in here...
May 31 11:01:46 <vi_> For example, is a person who contributes scripts a coder?
May 31 11:02:13 <vi_> It is all very vague.
May 31 11:02:58 <vi_> WHat I am hoping is the council will be able to spread the nokia loot as widely among the active members of TMO as possible.
May 31 11:03:24 <jozefk> jacekowski, http://www.articlecms.in/3893-how-to-flash-nokia-phones-using-phoenix-service-software.html#.T8dK-P7X-Jo
May 31 11:03:25 <chem|st> vi_: no it is not, a coder who did not get involved with this community apart of posting an tmo announcement about his app and porting like 10 apps would be not eligible
May 31 11:03:29 <vi_> And no, I do not mean the eipc android thread.
May 31 11:03:36 <jozefk> is that looks like a nice guide?
May 31 11:03:49 <chem|st> well there are 100 devices, 75 for coders only...
May 31 11:04:20 <Hurrian> vi_, or the "halp how do i flash n900 after installing speedpatch"
May 31 11:04:32 <Hurrian> "halp can you send me webos games"
May 31 11:04:37 <chem|st> coders doing CSSU or KP or something alike wont ever get one of those 75 so they should be elegible for the 25 by CA
May 31 11:05:15 <vi_> 25 devices or 24 n950s?
May 31 11:05:20 <vi_> ^25
May 31 11:05:43 <chem|st> I think its 10 n950s and 15 n9s
May 31 11:05:54 <Hurrian> chem|st, that's right
May 31 11:06:06 <chem|st> Hurrian: which part?
May 31 11:06:15 <Hurrian> # of devices for CA
May 31 11:06:16 <chem|st> devices or CSSU?
May 31 11:06:20 <chem|st> ok
May 31 11:06:37 <vi_> chem|st: are you able to delete tmo accounts?
May 31 11:06:48 <chem|st> I have hard feelings about someone porting 25 apps/whatever getting one of those 25 CA devices!
May 31 11:07:02 <chem|st> vi_: depends
May 31 11:07:09 <chem|st> in general yes
May 31 11:07:28 <vi_> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1215426#post1215426
May 31 11:07:31 <chem|st> but we prefer reggie handling deletion requests
May 31 11:07:42 <vi_> fair enough
May 31 11:14:41 <chem|st> vi_: I removed his post but didn't clean out; however, opened a moderator ticket
May 31 11:15:07 <chem|st> so he is currently invisible to $user
May 31 11:23:08 <chem|st> vi_: "council corruption scandal" nice one
May 31 11:31:25 <chem|st> Estel_: AND someone should get only a device if not getting one of the 75 coder-only devices!
May 31 11:32:18 <chem|st> at least pretend to be fair...
May 31 11:35:26 <chem|st> vi_: what do you think?
May 31 11:35:31 <chem|st> Hurrian: you too
May 31 12:01:59 <vi_> I think it is pretty obvious.
May 31 12:02:13 <vi_> You can't give someone 2 prizes.
May 31 12:02:18 <vi_> That would suck asses.
May 31 12:02:29 <vi_> For everyone else.
May 31 12:02:31 <Hurrian> chem|st, shouldn't it be one prize per person?
May 31 12:02:58 <Hurrian> >1 prize per person for lots of people with 100 phones to give out would be boo
May 31 12:06:42 <chem|st> vi_: Hurrian that's what I think too, but it seems council thinks different, at least Estel_ said to a devel that if he gets an n950 from the coder75 he could still get a n9 from CA25
May 31 12:08:34 <Hurrian> isnt the point of the CA25 is so that the people who aren't qualified for the coder75 (but still essential parts of the Maemo community who actually contribute well) to be rewarded for their efforts (and thus motivated to stay)
May 31 12:09:18 <Hurrian> the more good people we can keep happy and tinkering with Maemo, the longer we can probably stay together
May 31 12:09:23 <vi_> chem|st: in effect 1 user getting 2 prizes?  Fuck right off.
May 31 12:09:55 <chem|st> that's the idea, that is why I would say coders apart from those mentioned should not get a device from CA25
May 31 12:10:04 <vi_> People should be allowed to enter as many catagories as they see fit, however they should recieve at maximum 1 prize.
May 31 12:10:21 <chem|st> agreed
May 31 12:10:39 <vi_> Otherwise you will find your small selection of prizes going to few people.
May 31 12:10:56 <chem|st> which community coding efforts do we have besides CSSU and KP?
May 31 12:10:56 <vi_> And I can assure you, this will not kindle good will.
May 31 12:11:59 <vi_> None that I can think off, however CSSU encompasses a lot of smaller pieces.
May 31 12:12:33 <chem|st> nice comment again (email, those guys are nuts... you are never anonymous in the internet if not using TOR onion or alike properly)
May 31 12:13:10 <jacekowski> tor has been broken
May 31 12:13:27 <chem|st> for cssu, maintainers and direct efforts count in my opinion
May 31 12:13:33 <jacekowski> and saying that, i'm against anonymity
May 31 12:13:46 <jacekowski> in the way people want it
May 31 12:14:03 <chem|st> jacekowski: right
May 31 12:14:30 <jacekowski> internet access should be limited
May 31 12:14:32 <chem|st> people want anonymity to do what ever they want without getting charged
May 31 12:14:54 <chem|st> jacekowski: ok now you'r going crazy... ;)
May 31 12:15:04 <jacekowski> chem|st: unfortunately most ys
May 31 12:15:05 <jacekowski> yes*
May 31 12:15:23 <jacekowski> chem|st: it would solve spam problem
May 31 12:15:51 <chem|st> I want anonymity to not have google/microsoft/$company know everything about me just by me being online
May 31 12:16:04 <jacekowski> i agree with that
May 31 12:16:24 <chem|st> I don't want to be anonymous in here on the other hand
May 31 12:16:49 <jacekowski> but i don't want for somebody to be able to do what they want without any responsibility
May 31 12:17:26 <jacekowski> when somebody starts spamming on irc then he should be hit by a banhammer and never allowed to see internet again
May 31 12:17:36 <chem|st> ;)
May 31 12:18:30 <chem|st> as long as there are operatingsystems with holes big as I could fit in a horse there will be troyans and botnets...
May 31 12:19:04 <jacekowski> it should be user responsibility
May 31 12:19:23 <Hurrian> jacekowski, the problem is people don't behave
May 31 12:19:35 <Hurrian> that goes for both sides of the argument
May 31 12:19:35 <jacekowski> Hurrian: then they wouldn't be allowed to see internet
May 31 12:19:39 <Raimu> Not if there isn't something that makes them behave.
May 31 12:20:01 <jacekowski> simple and effective
May 31 12:20:05 <Raimu> The threat of losing public standing or getting punched in the face is enough to keep most people civil in face-to-face communication.
May 31 12:20:39 <jacekowski> threat of never being able to go to facebook.com would be probably the same for most people
May 31 12:20:55 <chem|st> vi_: please stop the trollfeeding!
May 31 12:21:01 <vi_> -_-
May 31 12:21:05 <vi_> I have a problem.
May 31 12:21:16 <Hurrian> >account gets hacked, spammer spams, user is banned off the internet
May 31 12:21:21 <Hurrian> wat do
May 31 12:21:21 <Raimu> http://swingnews.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/greater-internet-fuckwad-theory1.jpg
May 31 12:21:33 <vi_> Raimu: classic
May 31 12:21:37 <Raimu> Yes.
May 31 12:21:42 <vi_> Raimu: and I did not even open the link.
May 31 12:22:02 <Hurrian> you're only doing this if you can 100% tie everybody to their internet face
May 31 12:22:05 <Raimu> Yes, just mention John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory and people in the know raise eyebrows approvingly.
May 31 12:22:14 <vi_> I showed that to Mrs vi_ last night to try and explain why the news story on the bbc about girl gamers being targeted for abuse was BS.
May 31 12:22:59 <Hurrian> Raimu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
May 31 12:24:37 <Raimu> Hurrian, yes.
May 31 12:24:42 <Hurrian> vi_, people openly mention their genders on very large, open-access discussion forums?
May 31 12:24:47 <Raimu> vi, my missus trolls horny guys on sex chats.
May 31 12:25:06 <Raimu> So far it sounds like a worthwhile fire-with-fire cause.
May 31 12:30:00 <aparaatti> I seriously suspect that lumiaman is in tmo to make bad blood, he makes no sense
May 31 12:31:33 <chem|st> aparaatti: link pls
May 31 12:32:02 <chem|st> aparaatti: there is a thread about the devices sed http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84322
May 31 12:32:36 <aparaatti> stuff like that: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1207203#post1207203
May 31 12:32:45 <aparaatti> ty
May 31 12:33:18 <vi_> aparaatti: Yes, however he does not actually cause any problems.
May 31 12:33:42 <Hurrian> aparaatti, registering with a name "Lumiaman", openly promoting Lumias, which the community staunchly dislikes, and starting shit on tmo?
May 31 12:33:52 <Hurrian> does raise red flags.
May 31 12:33:56 <vi_> You always have to have some guy playing devils advocate.
May 31 12:34:04 <vi_> remember it is TMO, not XDA.
May 31 12:34:15 <aparaatti> what is xda?
May 31 12:34:28 <vi_> XDA is where good intentions go to die.
May 31 12:34:51 <Hurrian> aparaatti, some huge forum for every device ever made. yes, the dev to idiot ratio is insane.
May 31 12:34:58 <Hurrian> i do mean /huge/
May 31 12:35:00 <vi_> XDA developers is a forum mostly specialising in android devices.
May 31 12:35:10 <vi_> it is almost the polar opposite of TMO.
May 31 12:35:19 <vi_> It is a complete toilet of a forum.
May 31 12:35:33 <vi_> Maybe 1 notch above 'ipmart'
May 31 12:35:37 <Hurrian> every major smartphone non-nokia and non-palm from the past 7 years or so has a subforum
May 31 12:36:02 <vi_> Hurrian: yet no maemo sub-forum.
May 31 12:36:08 <vi_> What are they afraid of?
May 31 12:37:25 <vi_> XDA-they bicker over which appz to bandaid a problem.
May 31 12:37:42 <vi_> TMO-they bicker over which scipting langueage to use to bandaid a problem.
May 31 12:42:02 <chem|st> vi_: aparaatti I admonished him, next time I make it count...
May 31 12:42:16 <chem|st> sounds like a pissed off fanboy
May 31 12:43:44 <chem|st> do we need twitter accounts thread sticky?
May 31 12:43:56 <chem|st> twitter is another form of XDA to me
May 31 12:44:12 <chem|st> XDA with filtering support^^
May 31 12:46:07 <Raimu> OT: http://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/392380_3645934780207_1029526329_3281305_2046772520_n.jpg these EULAs are getting worse all the time.
May 31 12:46:57 <chem|st> ehrm warranty void if unpacked?
May 31 12:47:13 <Hurrian> :o
May 31 12:48:36 <jaska> you only get a warranty for the cardboard box :)
May 31 12:49:24 <chem|st> hehe
May 31 12:49:25 <Raimu> They've realized SSDs are bought for extreme penile compensation and they've calculated that just having the box on your bookshelf will suffice.
May 31 12:56:40 <chem|st> now all device program threads are sticky, still the question if we need twitter thread
May 31 12:56:53 <vi_> no
May 31 12:57:02 <vi_> twitter is fake.  And gay.
May 31 12:59:15 <chem|st> dated sticky threads back from 2010... those mods aren't what they used to be anymore^^
May 31 13:00:00 <chem|st> unstickied!
May 31 13:14:29 <chem|st> now he is starting me... lumiaman posted my PM...
May 31 13:14:57 <vi_> I swa.
May 31 13:15:00 <vi_> ^saw
May 31 13:15:05 <vi_> I lolled.
May 31 13:15:21 <chem|st> being called police everytime you make someone aware of being out-of-line makes me sicki
May 31 13:15:35 <chem|st> sick
May 31 13:17:16 <vi_> Fuckit, he is a douche.  It is the price you pay when you are in a position of authority.
May 31 13:18:24 <aparaatti> :) sorry
May 31 13:19:11 <chem|st> at least I got aware of a thread being in general ment to be in off-topic^^
May 31 13:19:30 <chem|st> what has nokia stock to do with maemo...
May 31 13:20:49 <Macer> heh
May 31 13:58:42 <dafox> in which country is that eula even valid/legal?
May 31 14:20:16 <teotwaki> dafox: none, as far as I can tell.
May 31 14:20:43 <vi_> It seems quite reasonable to me,
May 31 14:21:19 <vi_> Samsung can no longer guarantee the quality of this box after some spacker has spam fistedly tried to open it.
May 31 15:37:24 <ArchGT> hello, I just installed the kernel for power users but now I don't have cellular network
May 31 15:37:57 <ArchGT> I guess that's not the expected behavior
May 31 15:38:44 <Raimu> freemangordon: *ping* 
May 31 15:38:49 <Raimu> ^^^
May 31 15:39:48 <Raimu> ArchGT: Do you have tweaking apps, own-made scripts or the like that should be mentioned now, installed?
May 31 15:40:09 <Raimu> Or a really steep overclock?
May 31 15:40:16 <ArchGT> Raimu: no, I reflashed the os a couple days ago
May 31 15:40:27 <ArchGT> barely a few apps beyond stock
May 31 15:41:15 <SpeedEvil> Ow.
May 31 15:41:18 <Raimu> That's good. Hmm, I can't recall offhand what logs would be useful now. Stick around on the IRC channel and the maintainer'll pop up.
May 31 15:41:35 <ArchGT> Raimu: ok, thanks
May 31 15:41:37 <SpeedEvil> i hadn't realised it had crashed that far. Stock price had been ~5 for most of last year, and it's now half that in the last 3 months
May 31 15:41:43 <ArchGT> Raimu: ¿who's the maintainer?
May 31 15:41:55 <ArchGT> so I can ask when I see him
May 31 15:44:10 <chem|st> ArchGT: he will come back to you! was already "pinged"
May 31 15:45:01 <ArchGT> heh
May 31 15:45:15 <ArchGT> chem|st, Raimu: thanks
May 31 16:01:48 <vi_> ArchGT: are you sure you do not have offline mode on?
May 31 16:02:02 <Woody14619> chem|st, one of the qulifiers on CA is that those going for the other awards (or past award recipients) can't get a CA device.  It would be easier to guarantee if CA were after the competitions, but I'm pretty sure quim is seeing to it that the other competitions have the same clause.
May 31 16:03:29 <ArchGT> xD
May 31 16:03:38 <ArchGT> vi_: no, I have already done offline/online switching
May 31 16:06:19 <Woody14619> ArchGT, are you sure it's not a contact issue?  (eg did you try to paper-wedge trick?)  Also, when you flashed, did you flash a full fiasco image?  Was it for the correct region?  If it was for the wrong region the GSM firmware may not be liking life.  There are lots of TMO posts of people flashing region 2/3 devices with global firmware with the same issue.
May 31 16:07:39 <vi_> ArchGT: is there even an error message?
May 31 16:07:50 <vi_> like a picture of a sim card with a red line through it?
May 31 16:09:02 <ArchGT> Woody14619: I have not tried the paper wedge because cellular was lost right after the kernel install but I can try I guess. Then the flashing went ok but I did not use the "right" image I flashed with the international version. However that was two days ago so, why now?
May 31 16:09:08 <ArchGT> vi_: no error
May 31 16:11:21 <Woody14619> ArchGT, Flashing the wrong region is a bad idea usually.  Changing from a custom (eg vodaphone) to an open one is normally ok, as long as you match the region.
May 31 16:12:19 <Woody14619> ArchGT, so I'm confused a little:  If there's no sim card with a red line, what's not working?  Can it make calls?  Send sms? Is GPRS/data not working?  
May 31 16:13:01 <ArchGT> Woody14619: I'mm booting after doing the paper thing
May 31 16:13:19 <Woody14619> K. :)
May 31 16:13:33 <Woody14619> Keep an eye out for a yellow pop-up banner.
May 31 16:13:38 <ArchGT> Woody14619: and no sim card icon, just a error message about "no cellular network" -but in spanish- when i try to make a phone call
May 31 16:14:06 <ArchGT> and in connections the 3g/gprs network doesn't show up
May 31 16:14:17 <Woody14619> Often if there's trouble with a sim it tells you something like "unable to register with network" at start up.
May 31 16:14:41 <Woody14619> Hmm.. See, that's not a N900 talking to sim issue, that's a sim talking to network issue.
May 31 16:15:12 <ArchGT> Woody14619: I didn't get any error at boot
May 31 16:15:22 <ArchGT> now or the past few times 
May 31 16:16:32 <Woody14619> You can always try reverting to Nokia kernel (via the app installed by KP) and see if that fixes it?  But I susspect it something going on with your provider, not your device.
May 31 16:17:20 <ArchGT> Woody14619: I have another phone at hand, I'm going to try the sim on that phone
May 31 16:17:35 <Woody14619> Almost sounds like the provider turned your sim off.
May 31 16:17:49 <ArchGT> crap
May 31 16:17:52 <Woody14619> Another possability:  Where/when did you get this N900?  Was it recent?
May 31 16:17:53 <ArchGT> they don't like me
May 31 16:18:35 <Woody14619> Well, at least you know it's not a broken n900? ;)  Sims are easy to replace.
May 31 16:18:35 <Raimu> You've been disconnected from the service provider?
May 31 16:18:51 <ArchGT> Woody14619: actually this n900 history is quite long, I bought it from amazon, a couple of years ago. Then it stopped recognizing the sim so it went back to nokia
May 31 16:19:19 <ArchGT> they repaired the thing but it didn't got quite right
May 31 16:19:28 <ArchGT> it doesn't charge the battery now
May 31 16:19:51 <ArchGT> but since I love the device I don't want to stop using it
May 31 16:20:06 <Raimu> How do you charge the battery? :)
May 31 16:20:19 <ArchGT> Raimu: a 10$ charger from ebay
May 31 16:20:27 <Woody14619> ArchGT: that sucks. :(  My concern was if it was recent that maybe it's IMEI was registered stolen.  That would cause a provider to drop you.
May 31 16:20:45 <ArchGT> heh
May 31 16:20:51 <Raimu> Reminds me of the frail USB manufacturing defect.
May 31 16:22:03 <ArchGT> I just made a call with the sim on another phone
May 31 16:24:36 <Raimu> I see.
May 31 16:25:01 <Raimu> I suppose you've tried cleaning the SIM card's conductive surface and stuff like that?
May 31 16:25:08 <Woody14619> I'd try moving back to standard kernel & see if that brings you back.  I doubt it.  But even then, mixing hardware regions from flash images is begging for problems.
May 31 16:26:21 <Raimu> If there has been a persistent problem before with the SIM card reader part of your n900, it could be it's just breaking completely now.
May 31 16:26:59 <Raimu> ArchGT: Do you remember -- did you get to make any calls or SMSes or something after you installed kernel-power?
May 31 16:30:08 <ArchGT> Raimu: not one single call
May 31 16:30:38 <ArchGT> I installed the kernel today at 6 am, then powerdown, powerup
May 31 17:07:35 <vi__> Nher royal highnes head crab?
May 31 17:22:07 <Estel_> chem|st,  don't worry, whole CA idea is about prizes not only for devs...
May 31 17:22:49 <Estel_> it mean that if someone is dv but his community pqaryticipation is only via posting small annoucement on tmo, he won't get device
May 31 17:23:40 <Estel_> btw, who said starting in CC, qt5 and Nokia store disqualify from CA?
May 31 17:24:03 <Estel_> Woody14619,  in fact it's the opposite. Former prizes disqualify.
May 31 17:24:49 <Estel_> if, for example - hyphoteticaly - qwazix get device from CA due to his deeds for community, he dcan get one from qt5mas well
May 31 17:25:10 <vi__> Estel_: but that suscks
May 31 17:25:26 <Woody14619> Estel_, that's what I said.
May 31 17:26:07 <Woody14619> Estel_, past recipients can't get a CA device.
May 31 17:26:38 <freemangordon> Woody14619, they can if it is not the sae, i.e. if you got n950 you can get N9
May 31 17:26:39 <Woody14619> vi__: Why would you say that sucks?  Someone should be able to get multiple free N9s?
May 31 17:26:47 <freemangordon> *same
May 31 17:26:54 <freemangordon> AIUI
May 31 17:26:54 <Woody14619> freemangordon, yes, that's corret.
May 31 17:27:30 <vi__> Woody14619: I am saying they should not.
May 31 17:28:04 <vi__> A person should be allowed to enter as many catogories as they wish but only eligable to win 1 prize.
May 31 17:28:21 <freemangordon> vi__, that is what has been agreed on mailing list
May 31 17:28:27 <vi__> oh
May 31 17:28:34 <vi__> then wtf are we arguing about?
May 31 17:28:37 <freemangordon> has been/was
May 31 17:28:49 <freemangordon> NFC, just woke up :D
May 31 17:29:16 <vi__> if, for example - hyphoteticaly - qwazix get device from CA due to his deeds for community, he  dcan get one from qt5mas well
May 31 17:29:25 <vi__> ^then what does this mean?
May 31 17:30:13 <freemangordon> if qwazix gets n950 from CA he cannot get n950 from QT but can get N9. Both are devices :P
May 31 17:30:37 <vi__> so an entrant CAN get more than 1 device then?
May 31 17:30:37 <Estel_> yea
May 31 17:30:39 <freemangordon> Woody14619, correct?
May 31 17:30:46 <Estel_> correct freemangordon
May 31 17:30:52 <freemangordon> vi__, sure thing
May 31 17:30:58 <Woody14619> who's arguing?
May 31 17:31:03 <Estel_> samde for N9 from CA and N950 from qt5
May 31 17:31:17 <freemangordon> NFC :D. I am still having my coffee :P
May 31 17:31:34 <freemangordon> Woody14619 ^^^
May 31 17:31:36 <vi__> But that means that there will be fewer people with prizes at the end.
May 31 17:31:37 <Estel_> morning freemangordon ;)
May 31 17:31:42 <vi__> Therefore less good will.
May 31 17:31:44 <freemangordon> yeah, morning
May 31 17:31:49 <Estel_> vi_,  You would like sifo to get one?
May 31 17:31:59 <vi__> I have no say in the matter.
May 31 17:32:16 <Estel_> vi_,  if someone qualifies in both categories and is recognized by both...
May 31 17:32:31 <Estel_> vi_,  if someone qualifies in both categories and is recognized by both...
May 31 17:32:35 <Estel_> ops
May 31 17:32:36 <vi__> then he has a double chance of winning.
May 31 17:32:49 * Woody14619 doubts CA is going to generate anything but bitching and bad things for the community, and has througth this since it was introduced (before being elected)
May 31 17:33:04 <freemangordon> vi__, bat what if he deserves one?
May 31 17:33:04 <Estel_> Council have nothing to do with qt5 and nokia store
May 31 17:33:36 <Estel_> Woody14619,  it is going to generate, erm, smile on face of long-term contributors to community
May 31 17:34:03 <Estel_> instead of ugly ironic smile on face of people claiming what they will do after receiving N950 and dissapearing week after
May 31 17:34:04 <Estel_> :P
May 31 17:34:07 <freemangordon> Woody14619, while you may be right, how exactly merlin1991 will have a chance to get a device if not through CA?
May 31 17:34:20 <freemangordon> for example
May 31 17:34:24 <Estel_> qt5 and nokia store - especially the latter - isn't even Maemo related
May 31 17:34:46 <Woody14619> vi__, Here's the thing.  the coding compeatitions all give awards *after* CA is over.  We won't know who gets what from competitions.  If you're concerened that someone will get 2, you need to talk to someone in charge of those competitions to fix their rules...
May 31 17:35:02 <Estel_> Nokia can give their prizes whenever they want, but CA is our thing for our contributors
May 31 17:35:03 <freemangordon> Estel_, whatch what you're writing here, it is Maemo6 :P
May 31 17:35:33 <Estel_> freemangordon, :P
May 31 17:35:47 <Estel_> and winphone is maemo7
May 31 17:35:49 <Woody14619> work calls, brb
May 31 17:35:56 <Estel_> see ya
May 31 17:36:02 <vi__> I am not making a fuss.  I just felt that the most people getting the most prizes would be the most desireable outcome.
May 31 17:36:06 <freemangordon> FB RE calls, bb
May 31 17:36:17 <Estel_> vi_,  of course, but only if theydeserve it
May 31 17:36:34 <Estel_> do You see more than 25 people deserving CA prizes?
May 31 17:36:44 <vi__> Estel_: I do not know.
May 31 17:37:03 <vi__> But I can think of at least 10
May 31 17:37:17 <Estel_> btw what was that "corruption in council" thread, You've saved good laugh from me :(
May 31 17:37:23 <Estel_> no topic when I tried it
May 31 17:37:27 <vi__> ha
May 31 17:37:28 <Estel_> short summary, pls?
May 31 17:37:31 <Estel_> btw, vi
May 31 17:38:20 <vi__> it was the CA thread
May 31 17:38:36 <vi__> in response to some dumb stuff some people where suggesting.
May 31 17:38:54 <freemangordon> Estel_, ^^^
May 31 17:38:57 <vi__> Estel_: did you try compcache yet?
May 31 17:39:15 <freemangordon> vi__, BTW how that develops?
May 31 17:39:24 <vi__> freemangordon: I got lucky.
May 31 17:39:34 <freemangordon> you win the pot?
May 31 17:39:42 <Estel_> vi_,  not yet
May 31 17:40:07 <Estel_> vi_,  why You're using 50 nicknames, I query You just to notice that it doesn't arrived in proper address
May 31 17:40:07 <vi__> I am utterly unable to tweak the values to any extent without the whole thing grinding to a halt.
May 31 17:40:40 <vi__> Estel_: 50 nicknames, what?
May 31 17:40:48 <Estel_> vi_,  I'm quite afraid those settings will work only for specific user case
May 31 17:40:58 <Estel_> You're here as vi_ , then vi__ 
May 31 17:41:09 <Estel_> and probably vi____ too
May 31 17:41:33 <vi__> freemangordon: I do not understand how the settings I accidentally used work.  I have read about VM tuning a lot in the last 3 days and from what I can see these VM settings do not make any sense.
May 31 17:41:57 <vi__> however everyone who has tried them say they work.
May 31 17:42:02 <freemangordon> vi__, but you have settings that work?
May 31 17:42:06 <freemangordon> aaah
May 31 17:42:13 <Estel_> simple - Your use case mean sitting inside zram
May 31 17:42:21 <vi__> Estel_: nope
May 31 17:42:25 <Estel_> and there are people that reported ugly problems with those settings
May 31 17:42:26 <vi__> well yes
May 31 17:42:28 <freemangordon> where those settings live?
May 31 17:42:32 <vi__> Estel_: no
May 31 17:42:36 <vi__> OK
May 31 17:42:44 <vi__> EVERYBDY CHILL THE F OUT.
May 31 17:42:44 <Estel_> in compcache thread on tmo, Your own thread, freemangordon :P
May 31 17:43:15 <vi__> Estel_: The 3rd set of settings I posted are fail.  They are what everyone is complaining about.
May 31 17:43:26 <Estel_> ah, I see
May 31 17:43:38 <freemangordon> well, there was a bunch of settings there, last time i've checked there was no any breakthrough
May 31 17:43:44 <vi__> Estel_: The 2nd set, in a post that starts 'by jove FMG, I think you have done it' are made of win.
May 31 17:44:16 <freemangordon> vi__, did you update wiki entry?
May 31 17:44:38 <vi__> freemangordon: they are still on the 1st set of settings.  They also work quite well.
May 31 17:44:51 <Estel_> honestly, freemangordon, any idea why sane settings fail with comcache?
May 31 17:44:59 <vi__> they are the same as the 2nd, with a lower nr_requests.
May 31 17:45:09 <Estel_> it rather looks like bug somewhere...
May 31 17:45:09 <freemangordon> Estel_, lack of free RAM
May 31 17:45:21 <vi__> about 3996 nr_requests less.
May 31 17:45:24 <Estel_> with 64 zram?
May 31 17:45:29 <freemangordon> yes
May 31 17:45:43 <freemangordon> it is about 32MB of RAM
May 31 17:45:47 <freemangordon> less
May 31 17:45:51 <Estel_> shouldn't be much of a problem, as we have 128 swap in ram?
May 31 17:46:08 <freemangordon> but we don't have RAM for executable pages
May 31 17:46:15 <Estel_> so why it work on N800 with even less ram
May 31 17:46:37 <Estel_> and why executables can't live in zram
May 31 17:46:38 <freemangordon> well, that is a wikd guess, never traced that stuff as thumb2 looks more promising to me :P
May 31 17:46:56 <freemangordon> Estel_, because they are never swapped, just evicted from PGE
May 31 17:46:59 <Estel_> honestly I doubt we have 200+ MB of executabes
May 31 17:47:10 <Estel_> ok, understood
May 31 17:47:10 <freemangordon> page table, or whatever was the kernel term
May 31 17:47:30 <Estel_> still I don't think we have so much executables in ram
May 31 17:47:43 <Estel_> judging by my ram usage without zram
May 31 17:47:45 <freemangordon> Estel_, when kernel gets a page missing exceptio, it re-reads its content from the executable image
May 31 17:48:38 <Estel_> it's super strange, as zram is known for providing huge benefit on old notebooks with 64 mb RAM total
May 31 17:49:12 <Estel_> Your rationale sounds reasonable...
May 31 17:49:36 <Estel_> But I just don't buy that it works on N800 and every other device well - even with low ram...
May 31 17:49:36 <vi__> Estel_: try this.
May 31 17:49:38 <vi__> http://slexy.org/view/s2EZkIubXX
May 31 17:49:50 <vi__> freemangordon: chill da f out, let him try it...
May 31 17:49:52 <Estel_> and doesn't work for our 256 ram
May 31 17:50:06 <freemangordon> Estel_, the kernel is not the same, I wond bi surprozed we have some bug in 2.6.28
May 31 17:50:22 <Estel_> yea.
May 31 17:50:23 <freemangordon> *wont be surprized
May 31 17:50:24 <vi__> Estel_: whoops, cratch that
May 31 17:50:28 <Estel_> that is what I'm thinking about
May 31 17:51:04 <Estel_> vi_,  whats the point of setting whatever_ratio and whatever_background_ratio to same number
May 31 17:51:14 <freemangordon> Estel_, you can ask on Ubuntu 12.04 thread on TMO someone to try it with 2.6.37
May 31 17:51:20 <Estel_> very essence of those settings is that they should be different numbers
May 31 17:51:29 <Estel_> freemangordon,  ok
May 31 17:51:34 <vi__> Estel_: try this:
May 31 17:51:35 <vi__> http://slexy.org/view/s20mtq4yIo
May 31 17:51:46 <Estel_> I tend to agree, that it sounds like kernel bug
May 31 17:52:03 <freemangordon> though I think it was 3.2 where that swap trashing was fixed
May 31 17:52:04 <vi__> remember to swapoff/swapon you current swap to sort the priorities out.
May 31 17:53:18 <freemangordon> Estel_, there is some i/o speed regression starting from 2.6.17 or something which lives happily until 3.2 or 3.3
May 31 17:53:35 <Estel_> vi_,  I'm afraid to turn those on :P looks like lottery - will work blazing fast, until You hit case of REAL swap activity
May 31 17:53:39 <Estel_> then You're doomed
May 31 17:53:45 <Estel_> tried it with easy debian?
May 31 17:53:50 <vi__> Estel_: no.
May 31 17:53:54 <vi__> ask hurrian
May 31 17:54:00 <Estel_> run chromium or iceweasel with 10 tabs or more, even tmo only
May 31 17:54:01 <vi__> He tried it.
May 31 17:54:18 <freemangordon> there is 3 years old bug agains kernel on bugzilla, still open AFAIK
May 31 17:54:19 <Estel_> judging bu nr_request
May 31 17:54:33 <vi__> Estel_: I said it makes no sense.
May 31 17:54:39 <vi__> Estel_: just try it.
May 31 17:54:40 <Estel_> if You hit huge swap trashing, You can as good reboot device
May 31 17:54:49 <Estel_> ok, on 2nd device :P
May 31 17:54:56 <vi__> Estel_: !!
May 31 17:55:39 <Estel_> I'm cowardly refusing to try it on main device that is providing me radio, xchat and contact with world :P
May 31 17:55:59 <freemangordon> I am brave, going to try it :P
May 31 17:56:26 <Estel_> then open easy debian - even without lxde - and, I don't know, chromium with few pages
May 31 17:56:40 <freemangordon> Estel_, ok
May 31 17:57:50 <vi__> or you could try a more normal load.
May 31 17:57:59 <vi__> like 6 browser windows.
May 31 17:58:01 <vi__> sygic
May 31 17:58:07 <vi__> image viewer
May 31 17:58:17 <vi__> conversations+6 conversations
May 31 17:58:24 <vi__> while playing mp3 through OMP
May 31 17:58:34 <freemangordon> vi__, I have io scheduler timeouts tweaked, is that a problem?
May 31 17:59:00 <vi__> freemangordon: I do not know.  Anytime I touch those fifo timeouts it all goes to shit for me.
May 31 17:59:16 <freemangordon> :D
May 31 17:59:28 <vi__> freemangordon: I have also left io quantum at the default 4
May 31 18:00:11 <freemangordon> vi__, in theory those should not affect CC in any way, as those are parameters for uSD
May 31 18:00:19 <vi__> yes
May 31 18:00:30 <vi__> Sorry, I am talking about when you filled CC
May 31 18:00:40 <vi__> and you are REALLY swapping in real life
May 31 18:00:42 <vi__> as it were
May 31 18:00:56 <freemangordon> aaah, ok. my settings are amongs the best for that scenario
May 31 18:01:03 <freemangordon> :P
May 31 18:01:54 * Woody14619 hates to leave, but have a real life meeting... so want to see how this works out though. :)
May 31 18:02:10 <freemangordon> ok, 225896 of swap before starting lxde
May 31 18:03:45 <vi__> you notice no differance?
May 31 18:06:13 <Estel_> vi_,  I think that Your swap is so-called "inactive" swap
May 31 18:06:17 <freemangordon> vi__, not sure, I need to run those for at least a day to have a deffinite answer
May 31 18:06:36 <Estel_> i.e. things that get swapped long time ago and never touched
May 31 18:07:02 <Estel_> and zYou "active" swap - i.e. only one that is constantly paged to and out of ram - is less than zram
May 31 18:07:12 <Estel_> that's why those settings work for You well
May 31 18:07:23 <Estel_> try easy debian for "real" memory hogs :P
May 31 18:07:31 <Estel_> microB isn't good testbed
May 31 18:07:42 <Estel_> try chromium or iceweasel with few tabs opened
May 31 18:07:48 <freemangordon> Estel_, web browser in ED runs fine
May 31 18:07:50 <vi__> normal n900 use is not good testbed?
May 31 18:07:52 <Estel_> and loading new content
May 31 18:08:06 <Estel_> vi_,  - no, as there is no such thing as *normal*
May 31 18:08:08 <freemangordon> let me try open office while the browser is active
May 31 18:08:39 <Estel_> for me normal thing is to use chromium with plentora tabs opened
May 31 18:08:49 <Estel_> and spellchecking add-ons enabled :P
May 31 18:08:59 <Estel_> lazarus caching my test in case of any ooops
May 31 18:09:38 <freemangordon> hmm, the shit is pretty responsive
May 31 18:09:52 <vi__> HA
May 31 18:09:54 <Estel_> ok, need to test it myself
May 31 18:09:56 <Estel_> :P
May 31 18:10:11 <Estel_> but still, as vi___ said, those settings are nonsense :P
May 31 18:10:13 <freemangordon> Estel_, yeah, i am not mush in easy debian
May 31 18:10:36 <vi__> the point is before ramz=epic lag fest
May 31 18:10:43 <vi__> now ramz=good
May 31 18:10:45 <Estel_> vi__,  will try it on main device later
May 31 18:10:59 <vi__> these settings are a good starting point.
May 31 18:11:08 <Estel_> You convinced me :P
May 31 18:11:08 <vi__> However as I have said. I do not understand why.
May 31 18:11:15 <Estel_> I'll try to check wtf
May 31 18:11:20 <freemangordon> loading FB while open office writer is opened too
May 31 18:11:26 <Estel_> seems like task for tonight
May 31 18:11:35 <Estel_> FB - ultimate memory hog :P
May 31 18:12:16 <Estel_> with 128 MB of zram
May 31 18:13:28 <Estel_> afk for now
May 31 18:13:30 <freemangordon> damn. I cannot enter @
May 31 18:13:41 <vi__> freemangordon: on ED?
May 31 18:13:43 <freemangordon> my keyboard mapping is screwed up
May 31 18:13:46 <freemangordon> yep
May 31 18:13:51 <vi__> same here
May 31 18:13:57 <vi__> none of my cursor keys work
May 31 18:14:02 <freemangordon> cannot enter my email address
May 31 18:14:05 <vi__> neither does esc or tab
May 31 18:14:14 <vi__> massive pain in the testes
May 31 18:14:43 <Estel_> freemangordon,  try blue arrow + shift + space
May 31 18:14:52 <Estel_> and for having Your own keymap
May 31 18:15:39 <Estel_> cp /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 /.debian/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/
May 31 18:15:46 <Estel_> then, in ed
May 31 18:15:59 <Estel_> setxkbmap <Your language code>
May 31 18:16:12 <Estel_> = same hardware keyboard config in ED as in Maemo
May 31 18:16:14 <vi__> Estel_: ORLY???
May 31 18:16:17 <freemangordon> but as you all now I am smart, i used OO writer "insert special char" functionality :P
May 31 18:16:27 <vi__> hah!
May 31 18:16:56 <vi__> Estel_: how to make lxterm in ED respect my .profile and .bashrc?
May 31 18:19:43 <freemangordon> hmm, 100% CPU load
May 31 18:19:54 <freemangordon> for the last minute or so
May 31 18:20:04 <freemangordon> :(
May 31 18:20:47 <freemangordon> aah, finally, it dropped
May 31 18:21:24 <vi__> bah
May 31 18:21:45 <freemangordon> but only for a while, and according to iostat there is a massive io going on my swap partition
May 31 18:22:57 <vi__> well I am convinced that for normal use, it might work quite well.
May 31 18:23:06 <freemangordon> yeah, [mmcqd] and [kswapd0] are the top processes according to top :(
May 31 18:23:18 <vi__> EPIC SWAPPAGE
May 31 18:23:43 <freemangordon> vi__, or swap trashing if we should yse the correct word :P
May 31 18:24:07 <vi__> I guess asking to load the most hogging web site you can think of at the same time as a full desktop word processor is just too much for the phone.
May 31 18:24:22 <vi__> on a desktop browser.
May 31 18:24:26 <vi__> I quit.
May 31 18:24:31 <vi__> I am going to android.
May 31 18:24:36 <freemangordon> :D
May 31 18:27:34 <HRH_H_Crab> vi__: s/her/his s/head/horseshoe
May 31 18:27:54 <freemangordon> vi__, but it really seems those setings are ok for a "normal" usage, will keep them for a while and will report
May 31 18:31:08 <freemangordon> no, they are not :(
May 31 18:31:26 <freemangordon> vi__, sorry, no joy
May 31 18:31:29 <vi__> freemangordon: it has all gone to cock?
May 31 18:31:31 <vi__> meh
May 31 18:31:41 <freemangordon> no, but it swaps constantly
May 31 18:31:43 <chem|st> vi__: meh
May 31 18:31:53 <ShadowJK> if we could use ramzswap with backing swap, and add a layer to reorder write requests, it might work fast fast
May 31 18:32:17 <SpeedEvil> A nice reordering swap would be awesome.
May 31 18:32:17 <vi__> freemangordon: well it is a good starting point.
May 31 18:32:25 <freemangordon> i closed ED, opened opera (through phoneme) and facebook in microb, and it swaps all the time
May 31 18:32:29 <chem|st> vi__: the start of your email was good but you should not pretend to be a god... just be :)
May 31 18:32:32 <SpeedEvil> reordering/defragmenting
May 31 18:32:59 <vi__> chem|st: It was supposed to be tongue in cheek.
May 31 18:33:18 <freemangordon> have in mind that i use that every day, keeping opera in background with a book opened, while browsing with microb
May 31 18:34:05 <freemangordon> vi__, 128MB is just too much
May 31 18:34:31 <ShadowJK> SpeedEvil; ramzswap with backing swap seems to result in mostly random write I/O. Atleast with nokia swap, it's mostly "write sequentially into largest free block"
May 31 18:35:07 <SpeedEvil> Which works well - untill...
May 31 18:35:10 <freemangordon> ShadowJK, :nod:, and we just have to find the way to overcome that "bytes written" barrier
May 31 18:35:19 <ShadowJK> and ramzswap without backing swap seems silly, don't you end up with least often used data there, before it overflows to regular swap?
May 31 18:35:22 <chem|st> freemangordon: why is Estel_ telling people that they can get 2 devices from two categories?
May 31 18:35:31 <chem|st> then?
May 31 18:35:34 * ShadowJK shrugs
May 31 18:35:50 <chem|st> vi__: and again ;)
May 31 18:36:05 <vi__> and again what?
May 31 18:37:12 <freemangordon> chem|st, I think it is because the people can get 2 devices from 2 different categories :)
May 31 18:37:36 <ShadowJK> freemangordon; it's essentially a garbage collection problem. Java tries to solve this by having a "tenured" heap, a middle heap, and a "nursery" heap, the idea being that old objects expected to persist long migrate towards tenured heap, so that in the future garbage collection can leave it alone
May 31 18:37:48 <ShadowJK> it's a complex problem :)
May 31 18:37:53 <freemangordon> yeah
May 31 18:39:12 <freemangordon> I am wondering what will happen if we split to 3-4 partitions
May 31 18:39:19 <freemangordon> instead of 1
May 31 18:39:33 <chem|st> freemangordon: you said it was discussed on the mailinglist that they can not
May 31 18:39:56 <freemangordon> nah, you misunderstood me
May 31 18:39:57 <vi__> 1-4 zram partitions?
May 31 18:40:03 <freemangordon> no, uSD
May 31 18:41:10 <SpeedEvil> You then need to migrate tehm at some point
May 31 18:41:21 <SpeedEvil> this might in principle not be too bad, as this could be scheduled
May 31 18:43:09 <chem|st> freemangordon: k
May 31 18:43:17 <chem|st> Estel_: this sucks big time!
May 31 18:43:27 <chem|st> pls discuss at council
May 31 18:43:51 <chem|st> with quim too
May 31 18:45:22 <freemangordon> chem|st: [20:24] <freemangordon> if qwazix gets n950 from CA he cannot get n950 from QT but can get N9. Both are devices :P
May 31 18:45:28 <freemangordon> that is what I said
May 31 18:45:55 <chem|st> devels might need both n950 and n9 but that should be managed besides, devel devices... those 100 "prize" devices should get to 100 different people 75 to devs 25 to non-devs
May 31 18:46:35 <freemangordon> chem|st, I am not the one to argue with on that matter :)
May 31 18:46:41 <DocScrutinizer51> teotwaki: I gonna top that, just for the shits'n'giggles: "N9!"
May 31 18:46:47 <chem|st> if nokia wants development further than that they should lend out more
May 31 18:47:01 <chem|st> freemangordon: I was telling Estel_ 
May 31 18:47:06 <chem|st> or in general
May 31 18:47:16 <chem|st> you ust replied in between ;)
May 31 18:47:24 <freemangordon> chem|st, ok :)
May 31 18:47:54 <jpinx> is it possible to install vbox on maemo on the n900 ?
May 31 18:48:10 <freemangordon> chem|st, BTW I don't see the point devels to have N950
May 31 18:48:12 <DocScrutinizer51> *burrp*
May 31 18:48:18 <chem|st> and from what I see we have <15 people elegible for commmunity devices...
May 31 18:48:24 <chem|st> from my opinion
May 31 18:48:43 <freemangordon> if the point is future development on Qt
May 31 18:49:00 <DocScrutinizer51> LOL
May 31 18:49:24 <chem|st> freemangordon: well it includes updates from nokia!
May 31 18:49:51 <DocScrutinizer51> even more of a reason to echo N9! |  mail communityæmaemo.org -s "CA"
May 31 18:49:56 <chem|st> if the n950 is outdated like google just updated their dev-device to 4.x in april... it's never gonna work out
May 31 18:50:12 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm for sure no developer ;-P
May 31 18:50:29 <vi__> No one wants an N950 for the long term nokia support...
May 31 18:50:35 <freemangordon> chem|st, so what? is is not on the field, the FW is different from N9, etc
May 31 18:50:38 <DocScrutinizer51> indeede
May 31 18:50:42 <DocScrutinizer51> -e
May 31 18:50:53 <freemangordon> not that I care much, just a note
May 31 18:50:55 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer51: you think if, you should prefer n9s over n950s?
May 31 18:51:32 <freemangordon> the point was that if you want to develop for Harmattan you should do it on N9, not N950
May 31 18:51:33 <DocScrutinizer51> I think you won't get any update for N950 in ... well scratch that
May 31 18:51:48 <DocScrutinizer51> you won't get any updates for *any* HARM in 12 months
May 31 18:52:04 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer51: 1.3 is on its way I thought
May 31 18:52:21 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah, and quite probably for both devices
May 31 18:52:33 <chem|st> for both?
May 31 18:52:40 <DocScrutinizer51> and that's end of the road then
May 31 18:52:53 <chem|st> now you guys are confusing...
May 31 18:53:17 <HRH_H_Crab> i thought the n950s were long gone?
May 31 18:53:29 <DocScrutinizer51> no way
May 31 18:53:31 <chem|st> what is the diff between n950 and n9 FW wise?
May 31 18:53:41 <DocScrutinizer51> they probably got another 25k of them
May 31 18:53:51 <HRH_H_Crab> heh
May 31 18:53:51 <chem|st> apart of missing hardware in n950
May 31 18:54:03 <HRH_H_Crab> they are prob. holding on to them incase they need some money quickly.
May 31 18:54:04 <DocScrutinizer51> chem|st: the certs
May 31 18:54:06 <freemangordon> chem|st, if you want to make a descent application, you should test it in the device it is meant for, not on a similar device.
May 31 18:54:07 <DocScrutinizer51> ;-P
May 31 18:54:22 <freemangordon> aotherwise you can use the simulator
May 31 18:54:33 <freemangordon> it won't make any difference
May 31 18:54:34 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer51: ehrm I thought n9 had the certs problem...
May 31 18:54:39 <DocScrutinizer51> plus a lot of other nice nittygritties
May 31 18:54:54 <DocScrutinizer51> err?
May 31 18:55:05 <DocScrutinizer51> I think both have a cert "problem"
May 31 18:55:10 * freemangordon has to go
May 31 18:55:12 <freemangordon> bb
May 31 18:55:15 <DocScrutinizer51> o/
May 31 18:55:56 <freemangordon> yeah, this evening is the last we are allowed to smoke in the bars :(
May 31 18:56:06 <freemangordon> and other public places
May 31 18:56:13 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway, there are some essential differences: screen, kbd, probably even core hw components like OMAP and companion chip
May 31 18:56:14 <freemangordon> it is forbidden from tomorrow
May 31 18:56:31 <DocScrutinizer51> LOL
May 31 18:56:52 <DocScrutinizer51> next week I guess they will outlaw smoking at home here
May 31 18:57:22 <freemangordon> I am glad I am not "here" :)
May 31 18:57:31 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah
May 31 18:57:51 <DocScrutinizer51> even Frank Zapa was glad not to live 'here'
May 31 18:57:59 <DocScrutinizer51> Zappa*
May 31 18:58:01 <vi__> hah
May 31 18:58:11 <vi__> tobacco WAS his favourite vegitable.
May 31 18:58:29 <DocScrutinizer51> :-D
May 31 18:58:39 <vi__> The smoking ban in Scotland was the best thing that ever happened to bars here.
May 31 18:59:35 <joga> yeah we had that too a few years back, it was overall good imo because I rarely have many sets of clothes and now I can go to bar in weekdays without reeking the next day at work! ;P
May 31 18:59:43 <chem|st> vi__: just recognized lately that they started commercials for tobacco warez and alcohol at cinema pre-view
May 31 19:00:04 <vi__> gtg, mrs vi_ needs a lift.
May 31 19:00:13 <chem|st> for movies <16
May 31 19:03:53 <DocScrutinizer51> all hail to tobacco prohibition in bars! In former times the air was smokey and smelled like supposed for a decent bar, and nowadays the bartenders think they don't need such things like opening the windows or switch on exhaust fans, with the amazing result it now *really* stinks in bars
May 31 19:04:34 <DocScrutinizer51> *S*T*I*N*K*S*
May 31 19:04:40 <chem|st> lol
May 31 19:05:31 <chem|st> I have a cornered-bar near by... every time I want I can have the smoke of 10 cigarettes at once
May 31 19:09:33 <DocScrutinizer51> and when I ever got 20kg too much, and no money to buy any food, and want to stop eating forever, I visit that bar/restaurant nearby and take a nose of that excellent exquisite blend of smell of sweat, farting dogs, 6 or 8 differnet kinds of steaming smelly food, and of course of beer in all imaginable states of "riping" in open bottles and puddles on the floor and on the bar and in the drains
May 31 19:10:11 <DocScrutinizer51> but definitely without smoke since some 2 years now
May 31 19:11:33 <DocScrutinizer51> not to forget the hot steamy note of dish washer machine
May 31 19:12:52 <DocScrutinizer51> and breathtaking clouds of perfume of those 5 ladies that never can put enough of that cheap stinking stuff on them
May 31 19:24:14 <merlin1991> ragetrip?
May 31 19:26:05 <DocScrutinizer51> nah, what rage?
May 31 19:27:47 <DocScrutinizer51> a simple unbiased analysis of the brilliant results of outlawing smoking in bars
May 31 19:31:17 <DocScrutinizer51> and I not even touched the topic of health care and insurance balance, for the few passive smokers now 'saved' from lung cancer, vs. all the smokers that now will kill themselves with bronchopneumonia by smoking out in cold before the bar's door, at -15°C in winter
May 31 19:32:52 <merlin1991> hm I think having them kill tehmselves is more cost efficient than dealing with the cancer ;)
May 31 19:33:05 <MrPingu> What I was about to say
May 31 19:33:10 <MrPingu> ^^
May 31 19:33:17 <DocScrutinizer51> not really. Smokers are cash cows here
May 31 19:33:34 <MrPingu> In general they pay more taxes than would get back :P
May 31 19:34:02 <DocScrutinizer51> magnitudes more
May 31 19:37:51 <DocScrutinizer51> it's the non-smokes that are really expensive when they are 85, 90, 100 years old and more in hospital than at home ;-)
May 31 19:38:28 <DocScrutinizer51> they can do this only because all the smokers are paying for it
May 31 19:40:11 <MrPingu> True!
May 31 19:40:36 <MrPingu> Still I think smoking stinks and I will never going to smoke. 
May 31 19:40:44 <DocScrutinizer51> hehehe
May 31 19:41:00 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm not arguing against that
May 31 19:44:24 <vi__> There was a study performed by I think a danish university.
May 31 19:45:24 <vi__> They concluded that if ALL smokers where to stop immediatley the national health service would see immediate savings for about 15 years.
May 31 19:46:02 <SpeedEvil> Did that also factor in increase in tax reciepts due to working age cancers being eliminated?
May 31 19:46:07 <vi__> Then, as all the old smokers dies off and the population living longer, they would see an increase in the costs of caring for elderly people.
May 31 19:47:00 <vi__> cost of lots caring for lots of old people > cost of caring for smoking related illnesses.
May 31 19:47:09 <vi__> So in conclusion.
May 31 19:47:21 <vi__> Smoke it down smokey mcsmokerson.
May 31 19:47:27 <vi__> Have 2.
May 31 19:47:41 <vi__> Nae, 3 at once.  You are doing us all a favor.
May 31 19:47:58 <MrPingu> Smoke for my health treatment when I am old :P
May 31 19:48:06 <vi__> Correct.
May 31 19:48:30 <vi__> In fact, smoke, do drugs, ride motorcycles and take up a part time job as an alligator agitator.
May 31 19:48:48 <vi__> It is beneficial for all.
May 31 19:48:51 <vi__> Especially me.
May 31 19:52:31 <MrPingu> enjoy my submission :P
May 31 19:55:49 <merlin1991> MrPingu: best submission so far :D
May 31 19:58:47 <MrPingu> :)
May 31 19:58:50 <GeneralAntilles> Hey-oh, javispedro.
May 31 19:59:57 <javispedro> howdy GeneralAntilles 
May 31 20:02:56 <javispedro> how's the mood as of lately, new council et al? :)
May 31 20:03:17 <GeneralAntilles> Active
May 31 20:04:28 <javispedro> the community ML activity can attest to that indeed
May 31 20:19:12 <Raimu> How well could a n900 handle Chromium with multiple tabs in any scenario?
May 31 20:19:52 <Raimu> I mean, that thing is the biggest memory hog on my desktop PC, hands-down, because it's intended to eat a looooot of memory for smooth running.
May 31 20:19:58 * Raimu checks
May 31 20:20:54 <Raimu> Yes, even now ol' Chrome has gulped 2.5 gigabytes on my desktop PC.
May 31 20:21:26 <Woody14619> chem|st, again, I point you to the fact that CA devices will be given out before all the others.  So nothing we do will prevent someone from getting an N950 from CA and an N9 from CC.  That requires a change in the CC rules, which is all run by Nokia (quim?)
May 31 20:24:19 <Woody14619> chem|st, as for CA rules, we already state that if you won/got/stole/etc a device from a previous event, you don't get one from CA.  Others seem to want to limit that to devices "of the same type", but I'm not sure I like that...  I think that will depend on who's in the top 25 to 30 in 3 weeks.
May 31 20:35:42 <Estel_> chem|st, Woody14619, the thing is that rules are set already and we won't change them - they were also accepted by qgil
May 31 20:35:57 <Estel_> also, as Woody14619 said, we don't have impact opn QT5, nokia Store and CC mrules
May 31 20:36:09 <Estel_> if they wan to ban people that received CA, it's up to them
May 31 20:36:22 <Estel_> if they want to allow someone have N950 from Ca and N950 from CC, it's also up to them
May 31 20:37:03 <Estel_> ouyr rules, as set in annoucement and discussed, are that *no* to giving someone 2nd N950 OR 2nd N9, if the form,er was achieved through other dev program or anything like that
May 31 20:37:17 <rm_work> GeneralAntilles: are things really getting active again somehow?
May 31 20:37:20 <rm_work> that'd be amazing
May 31 20:37:21 <Estel_> ...but nothing bad in granting someone who *deserve* it N9, if he had N950 from dev program
May 31 20:37:33 <GeneralAntilles> Well, noisy at least
May 31 20:37:41 <Woody14619> Estel_, the "rules", as you have noted many times, are to be made by Council.  Nothing says we can't change them slightly.  We already have at least a few times.
May 31 20:37:42 <Estel_> thanks, GeneralAntilles :/
May 31 20:37:46 <RST38h> rm_work: Nah. ANd hey!
May 31 20:37:52 <rm_work> :P
May 31 20:38:01 <GeneralAntilles> Estel_, it's a neutral judgement based on limited information. :)
May 31 20:38:04 <Estel_> Woody14619, that's also true, although I don't like changing game rules in middle of game. that's personal opinion.
May 31 20:38:09 <chem|st> Woody14619: +1
May 31 20:38:21 <Woody14619> But overall, yes... at a minimum we're preventing past winners from getting another device of the same type.
May 31 20:38:31 * rm_work waves at RST38h 
May 31 20:38:31 <rm_work> RST38h / GeneralAntilles: yeah, i am actually *here* every day if anyone pings me... just normally not super active on these channels, just idling in the background.
May 31 20:38:32 * Estel_ nods
May 31 20:38:46 <Estel_> of cours,e if majority of councilors would like to change rules, i'm not entitled to oppose that
May 31 20:38:58 <chem|st> Estel_: lol
May 31 20:39:11 <Woody14619> My votes will likely reflect my belief that previous winners of any device should not get a second...
May 31 20:39:15 <Estel_> but, my personal view on this is that rules are set, and the pieces are moving :P
May 31 20:39:46 <Estel_> Woody14619, somehow, I sympatize, but, OTOH, I preffer to give N9 to someone who have N950 if he really deserve Ca recognition...
May 31 20:39:58 <Estel_> than to give it to someone less deserving, just because he wasn't deserving N950 before
May 31 20:40:30 <Estel_> BTw, IMO, it's perfectly possible (yet, probably, unlikely to happen) that NOT all 25 devices will be granted
May 31 20:40:33 <chem|st> Woody14619: if you keep in mind that non-devs should get served first please
May 31 20:40:40 <Estel_> if, for example, Council will find only 20 deserving submissions...
May 31 20:40:48 <Estel_> I see no reason to make a "lottery" fo remaining 5
May 31 20:40:54 <Woody14619> I would very much like to see the CC, QT5, etc update their rules to include clauses about exempting CA winners.  But I susspect there's already verbage in there, probably in the form of "no prior winners to other Nokia competions in the past X months", where CA will be covered.
May 31 20:41:02 <Estel_> chem|st, as for Ca awards, we don't care if someone is dev or not
May 31 20:41:07 <rm_work> what does CA / CC stand for?
May 31 20:41:17 <Estel_> Ca - community Awards
May 31 20:41:21 <Estel_> CC = Coding Competition
May 31 20:41:47 <Estel_> chem|st, the main principe about Ca is that we don't serve dev first or last, being dev is just part of community contribution
May 31 20:41:55 <Estel_> not better, not worse (for CA)
May 31 20:41:58 <rm_work> thx
May 31 20:42:05 <Woody14619> chem|st, with one cavet:  I think non-APP-devs should be served first.  Most of the other awards are for APP devs.  Folks working on CSSU and/or non-APP things that are important to the community should still be in the list.
May 31 20:42:09 <chem|st> being dev is not community contribution
May 31 20:42:32 <chem|st> Woody14619: +1
May 31 20:43:10 <Woody14619> Estel_, I think we're close to agreement on your concept, but the bar would have to be pretty high to merit a "second" device.
May 31 20:43:36 <chem|st> stellarium for example is a wonderfull app but n900 was just the base to get the mobile version polished out, was closed and uploaded to itunes...
May 31 20:45:08 <chem|st> just for the records: I never had a discussion with councelors on IRC yet afair
May 31 20:45:46 <chem|st> you two seem to be less elitary
May 31 20:46:01 <chem|st> what is with the others?
May 31 20:47:35 <DocScrutinizer51> err WUT? 
May 31 20:47:57 <DocScrutinizer51> <Estel_> [22:39:56] than to give it to someone less deserving, just because he wasn't deserving N950 before
May 31 20:48:14 <DocScrutinizer51> I preffer to give N9 to someone who have N950
May 31 20:49:00 <DocScrutinizer51> You're aware there are ZERO n950 owned by those who may have received them?
May 31 20:51:11 * fastlane` wants an n950 BAD! 
May 31 20:51:14 <fastlane`> -__-
May 31 20:57:04 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, i don';t get Your last message
May 31 20:57:07 <Estel_> could You elaborate more?
May 31 20:57:24 <Estel_> chem|st, ivgalvez is trying to be here too, but he is currently very busy with submissions
May 31 20:57:34 <DocScrutinizer51> *all* N950 that are _anywhere_ now, are loaners
May 31 20:57:38 <Estel_> Niel also appear here from time to time
May 31 20:57:45 <Estel_> SD69 is rather non-IRC type
May 31 20:57:55 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, doesn't matter
May 31 20:58:09 <Estel_> first and most important thing - load/have is of no interest to us
May 31 20:58:15 <Estel_> s/load/loan/
May 31 20:58:16 <infobot> Estel_ meant: first and most important thing - loan/have is of no interest to us
May 31 20:58:34 <Estel_> seond, i'm perfectly sure, that all loaners will transform to "owners" soon, but it's just my personal opinion.
May 31 20:58:34 <chem|st> Estel_: which submissions?
May 31 20:58:40 <Estel_> chem|st, CA obviously
May 31 20:58:57 <chem|st> Estel_: I am reading the mailinglist so which submissions?
May 31 20:59:00 <Estel_> they're not putting themselve son wiki on their own :P with linsk to garage accounts, TMO accounts, and submission itself on mailing lsit archive
May 31 20:59:07 <Estel_> You would not imagine how lotta hell of work is that
May 31 20:59:29 <chem|st> no I don't
May 31 20:59:31 <Estel_> well, maybe he have just too much time to waste on IRC ;)
May 31 20:59:34 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: I bet a 6pack best russian vodka that none of the loaners _ever_ will change status to "property of the one posessing it"
May 31 20:59:56 <chem|st> I jsut know that it is no excuse, if he doesn't want to be here ok but don't make something up
May 31 21:00:01 <Estel_> ok, challenge accepted. Time for processing this, 5 years?;)
May 31 21:00:28 <chem|st> Estel_: end of ralley
May 31 21:00:32 <Estel_> chem|st, in fact he wan't be here, but You know, he is not payed 8 hours worker. Lately, alst few days, he was using 100% free time to process submissions
May 31 21:00:49 <SpeedEvil> Estel_: clearly when nokia files chapter 11.
May 31 21:00:57 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, BTw, if Nokia go bankrupt and no one wil;l ever care about fate of loaned N950, can we consider it's owned too? ;)
May 31 21:01:08 <Estel_> SpeedEvil, we're thinking about same things
May 31 21:01:10 <SpeedEvil> more seriously - has any of the n900s - which must be closing on 3 years - been 'given'
May 31 21:01:28 <SpeedEvil> Estel_: If they go bankrupt - they are the assets of the reciever
May 31 21:01:40 <Estel_> + has any of "loaned" N900 were requested back, or someone selling them on Ebay bashed?
May 31 21:02:00 <Estel_> sure, as long as all owners, erm, loaners, won't say that they got destroyed in an accident
May 31 21:02:03 <DocScrutinizer51> SpeedEvil: none
May 31 21:02:08 * RST38h passed his loaned N900 to the next developer,who squandered it
May 31 21:02:21 <Estel_> +, after 50 years, N950's, which were only ~400 made, by legendary, soon deceased company Nokia...
May 31 21:02:28 <Estel_> would be sold on auction for $$$$$
May 31 21:02:41 <Estel_> RST38h, but You passed it because You wanted it, or Nokia demanded it?
May 31 21:03:30 <chem|st> EOL Estel_ 
May 31 21:03:35 <RST38h> I passed it because I promised to return it to Nokia
May 31 21:03:44 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: because nobody ever asked that question
May 31 21:04:22 <Estel_> RST38h, which means You passed it because You wanted to.
May 31 21:04:41 <RST38h> No
May 31 21:04:44 <DocScrutinizer51> no, because he's not an asshat
May 31 21:04:52 <chem|st> all devices were ordered back afair, quim then said that coders may request an extend and he will make it happen
May 31 21:04:59 <RST38h> I signed a paper saying I will pass it. So, I did what I promised in that paper
May 31 21:05:00 <Estel_> BTW, devices for current activities were promsied to be "owned", until someone started to talk on TMO how much exzpensively they can be sold...
May 31 21:05:25 <RST38h> what is this estel guy's point, anyway?
May 31 21:05:28 <Estel_> and changed to "i don't know yet"
May 31 21:05:37 <Estel_> I'm sure, aftert end of activitie,s it will be stated that they're "owned" again
May 31 21:05:41 <chem|st> Estel_: ehrm disclosure says if lost you pay it!
May 31 21:05:52 <Estel_> RST38h, honestly, you could change Your trolling attitude
May 31 21:05:55 <DocScrutinizer51> (pre-)summit loaners were even different to later DDP
May 31 21:06:07 <Estel_> You're jumping in middle of discussion, without even reading backlog for sanity sake...
May 31 21:06:14 <Estel_> and You have long history of doing so ;)
May 31 21:06:21 <Estel_> do you even know what we're discussing about, in wider context?
May 31 21:06:27 <Estel_> if no, happy trolling, but not with me ;)
May 31 21:06:58 <Estel_> chem|st, Hm, sounds strange
May 31 21:07:02 <chem|st> Estel_: don't pretend to be an IRCelder...
May 31 21:07:03 <Estel_> MAG's device got damaged
May 31 21:07:06 <Estel_> and nokia replaced it fo free
May 31 21:07:10 <Estel_> even 2 times
May 31 21:07:18 <chem|st> damaged is not lost...
May 31 21:07:35 <Estel_> yea, when truck pass on it
May 31 21:07:51 <chem|st> just by reading your own senteces you could answere your own questions... RST38h +1
May 31 21:07:53 * DocScrutinizer51 watches Estel_ rowing hybris
May 31 21:07:54 <Estel_> it will be also "damaged" ;)
May 31 21:07:57 <DocScrutinizer51> growing*
May 31 21:08:04 <Estel_> hybr what?;)
May 31 21:09:31 * chem|st pops a fresh beer and grabs some of ChanServ's popcorn
May 31 21:09:47 <chem|st> ~popcorn
May 31 21:09:48 <infobot> it has been said that popcorn is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0f2YL_MThI, which is epic.
May 31 21:09:54 <chem|st> ^^
May 31 21:10:12 * DocScrutinizer51 remarks that Estel_ is triggering troll alarm 4 times a day at average, while RST38h usually doesn't, at all
May 31 21:10:32 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, honestly, i've been reading RST38h "participations" during last few months...
May 31 21:10:41 <Estel_> and IMO, he seems to appear here ONLY when ther eis a chance to troll a little
May 31 21:10:46 <Estel_> if You enjoy it, take Your time
May 31 21:10:57 <DocScrutinizer51> ooh, I hope you used the opportunity to read your won as well ;-P
May 31 21:10:59 <Estel_> I've said what I had to said about it, and don't see any sense in continuation.
May 31 21:11:20 <Estel_> well, after all, same can be told about Your "you won't hijack CSSU" and similar ;)
May 31 21:11:35 <Estel_> ...so don't worry, rpobably evereyone have little trollish part inside.
May 31 21:11:41 <DocScrutinizer51> see, exactly meeting definition of trolling
May 31 21:11:46 <DocScrutinizer51> YOU, not me
May 31 21:11:56 <DocScrutinizer51> with your very last post
May 31 21:12:38 <Estel_> yea, because You're not doing it too, religiously ;) 
May 31 21:12:47 <Estel_> Really, is it good reason to start useless argue?
May 31 21:12:55 <Estel_> everyone is prone to use sophism from time to time.
May 31 21:13:07 <Estel_> someone tleling he is *never* sophism'ish, is like someone who say "I never lie"
May 31 21:13:16 <Estel_> either damn demagogish, or liar ;)
May 31 21:13:46 <Estel_> so, i'll conclude it with religious "Who is not guilty, shall throw popcorn first"
May 31 21:14:06 * chem|st thows popcorn at Estel_ 
May 31 21:14:14 <Estel_> ouh!
May 31 21:14:25 <DocScrutinizer51> one thing's for sure: you love to see hear your own talking / read own writing. And you love to have last 20 posts on any topic, arguing why nobody should do a single post about it
May 31 21:14:43 <Estel_> chem|st, living saints doesn't count :p
May 31 21:14:51 <Estel_> chillout, Doc.
May 31 21:15:01 <Estel_> you're not pulling me into another argue with You ;)
May 31 21:15:05 <Estel_> reeeesssist...
May 31 21:15:12 <DocScrutinizer51> see, you're doing it again
May 31 21:15:33 <DocScrutinizer51> exact definition of trolling, sorry
May 31 21:15:40 * Estel_ LOL as quietly as possible, to not wake up son, and head to read 15 new mails on council's account
May 31 21:15:46 <DocScrutinizer51> and /me away now, for good
May 31 21:16:07 * chem|st puts his halo back to his ornamentic shrine
May 31 21:30:12 <Estel_> LOLOLOL
May 31 21:30:14 <Estel_> I know I'm late
May 31 21:30:26 <Estel_> but sifo's submission, being - whole quotation:
May 31 21:30:28 <Estel_> "any device"
May 31 21:30:31 <Estel_> really owns
May 31 21:30:51 <Estel_> just yesterday, he tried to "submit" to mailing list, by spamming mails to list, containing only his email address...
May 31 21:30:53 <Estel_> now that.
May 31 21:31:04 <Estel_> well, if it's "any device", maybe we should grant him Nokia 1100
May 31 21:31:26 <Estel_> http://i.wp.pl/a/f/jpeg/19337/nokia-1100-300.jpeg
May 31 21:31:32 <DocScrutinizer51> wait for mine: "N9"
May 31 21:31:56 <MrPingu> Give him atleast the old trusty 3310 then :P
May 31 21:32:23 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, the differenc eis that - if You include also your TMO link and word "submissions" - you may actually receive it ;P
May 31 21:32:35 <Estel_> s/submissions/submission/
May 31 21:32:36 <infobot> Estel_ meant: DocScrutinizer, the differenc eis that - if You include also your TMO link and word "submission" - you may actually receive it ;P
May 31 21:33:06 <vi__> Don't be so cruel.  There will be a lot of disappointed people after this competition is finished.
May 31 21:33:23 <Estel_> yea, a LOTTA hell of them
May 31 21:33:46 <Estel_> I just hope that making real contributors happy will be at least as much fun as dissapointing the rest
May 31 21:33:48 <Estel_> (joke)
May 31 21:34:33 <MrPingu> That Sifo guy really seemed nice :P
May 31 21:34:41 <Estel_> vi___, after all, you can submit to, and in case of win, actually, sell whatever prize, then use money to donate all Maemo projects You love - at the same time, writing open letter about how You hate Nokia :P
May 31 21:34:45 <Estel_> not that i'm teasing to do so.
May 31 21:34:57 <Estel_> "Any device. Now. sifo"
May 31 21:35:22 <MrPingu> He contacted me on PM @TMO,  said sorry after I corrected him somewhere
May 31 21:35:34 <MrPingu> Was afraid to spam the thread
May 31 21:35:39 <Estel_> well, yesterday, I explained to him - via PM - that of cours ehe can submit...
May 31 21:35:50 <Estel_> (he asked me about how to - ye3a, he failed to do so even after being given correct steps)
May 31 21:35:51 <Estel_> but
May 31 21:36:06 <Estel_> I asked him if he doesn't think, that it's little embarassing to submit, considering his short contributing history
May 31 21:36:16 <Estel_> well, he didn't answered, but it seems that it isn't any problem for him ;)
May 31 21:36:21 <MrPingu> He has good intentions, but he just fails a bit
May 31 21:36:27 <vi__> Estel_: he is probably just a kid.
May 31 21:36:39 <MrPingu> He is :P
May 31 21:36:58 <Estel_> vi, i expected more comment on my idea of what You would do with prize, hah
May 31 21:37:00 <MrPingu> 1 year younger than I am
May 31 21:37:25 <vi__> hah.  IF i won the prize I desire...
May 31 21:37:49 <vi__> I would do this:
May 31 21:38:26 <Estel_> warning, porn incoming :P
May 31 21:38:31 <vi__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJBKyTfCjCc
May 31 21:38:55 <Estel_> hey, vi, You nominated Yourself
May 31 21:39:00 <Estel_> I started top read it now
May 31 21:39:12 <Estel_> but it's interesting, to sya at least, from the very beginning
May 31 21:39:32 <vi__> it was supposed to be tongue in cheek.
May 31 21:40:40 <chem|st> Estel_: thought you went reading council mails...
May 31 21:40:52 <vi__> the polar opposite of all the 'There are loads of people more deserving that me, but maybe you will choose me anyway' apologetic type entries.
May 31 21:41:11 <Estel_> chem|st, done with that already, next step[ is community list
May 31 21:41:42 <Estel_> vi_, I see. Well, at least this one is interesting to read (like Pali's one, for example)
May 31 21:41:44 <DocScrutinizer51> fsckng ZNC kills my battery in 8h, for good, since I connected a second (Konversation) client
May 31 21:41:50 <Estel_> (i mean Pali's one was interesting also)
May 31 21:42:03 <Estel_> ~ZNC
May 31 21:42:11 <Estel_> although for other reasons
May 31 21:42:16 <vi__> It is like the crayon pretend hand written credits for that movie juno.
May 31 21:42:27 <Atarii> is "Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z" the correct VM to download for Maemo 5 developing?
May 31 21:44:01 <Estel_> vi_, but You also did a suicude shot by accepting *only* n950, not only setting is as preffered one?
May 31 21:44:27 <Estel_> sounds like tactical errror, doesn't seem in line with content of that submission :P
May 31 21:44:38 <vi__> nope
May 31 21:44:51 <Estel_> hah, but reply to your email is great
May 31 21:44:55 <vi__> if I wanted an n9 I would have bought one by now.
May 31 21:44:57 <Estel_> "and your maemo username is?"
May 31 21:45:09 <vi__> !
May 31 21:45:16 <Estel_> not to mention that it's in title
May 31 21:45:26 <Estel_> well, someone probably took it as vi as vi in /usr/bin
May 31 21:46:21 <Estel_> I'm sure your nomination will make some interesting talks during deciding ;)
May 31 21:46:23 <MrPingu> Atarii, yes it is. Atleast I use it...
May 31 21:46:35 <Atarii> thanks MrPingu :)
May 31 21:47:33 <Estel_> MrPingu, while i appreciate Your nomination, I haven't though you will do it really this way
May 31 21:47:48 <Estel_> personally, i like it, but i'm also afraid it's going to bring another legion of negatrons to Ca project
May 31 21:47:51 <Estel_> like all those
May 31 21:47:57 <Estel_> "this project is grotesque" etc
May 31 21:47:59 <Estel_> well
May 31 21:48:06 <Estel_> after all, i couldn't care less, so... :P
May 31 21:48:27 <Estel_> ah, sorry, haven't noticed 2nd part
May 31 21:48:37 <Estel_> it's a little... erm, overpowered by first one ;)
May 31 21:49:09 <Estel_> so everything is ok ;)
May 31 21:49:21 <MrPingu> Estel_, told ya about the dragon :P
May 31 21:49:43 <Estel_> well, I would be a little embarasse dif you would end mail after first part
May 31 21:49:51 <Estel_> but as a whole it's nice :)
May 31 21:50:17 <Estel_> next year we must think about something for, erm, creativity
May 31 21:50:36 <chem|st> so count is 18 with even pingu as newcomer..
May 31 21:50:46 <chem|st> if I remember right
May 31 21:51:13 <Estel_> personal opinion, not related to being councilor - IMO pingu have nice chances, currently
May 31 21:51:34 <Estel_> You may be not aware, but he is very, very contributing @ tmo
May 31 21:51:39 <MrPingu> Estel_ I made sure everything you needed was written down first
May 31 21:51:41 <Estel_> and I mean this proper mean of "contributing"
May 31 21:52:39 <MrPingu> It's only in the small things though. 
May 31 21:54:04 <MrPingu> chem|sist, only 18 submissions?
May 31 21:56:07 <Estel_> no, he mean people that he think deserve prize
May 31 21:58:38 <MrPingu> Estel_ , you said widelands was working for you @TMO
May 31 21:58:44 <Estel_> yea
May 31 22:00:51 <MrPingu> I am missing LibGLU.so.1 any chance you could find out which package contains that fiel?
May 31 22:00:51 <MrPingu> *file
May 31 22:03:21 <MrPingu> Can you check if you have these packages installed: freeglut3 or libglu1-mesa
May 31 22:03:36 <MrPingu> while I typed that, I thought, I need the latter :P
May 31 22:05:11 <Estel_> no problem, wait a sec
May 31 22:05:14 <Estel_> I remember this error
May 31 22:05:43 <MrPingu> Yeah, I fixed it by installing libglu1-mesa
May 31 22:06:20 <Estel_> so, there is no problem now?
May 31 22:06:25 <MrPingu> nope :)
May 31 22:06:28 <Estel_> (other than dependency problem with widelands)
May 31 22:06:34 <Estel_> OK :)
May 31 22:07:08 <MrPingu> Atleast, not that I am aware of
May 31 22:08:38 <chem|st> Estel_: sure... but recently started is not like contributing for years is it? nvm currently anyone who did anything good to the community may still get a device...
May 31 22:10:18 <chem|st> MrPingu: in my opinion non-coders first, community-coders second and $coder last
May 31 22:10:49 <chem|st> the count of '18' is without $coder
May 31 22:11:40 <MrPingu> Actually I fully agree, this program was meant for community deeds other than coding
May 31 22:12:10 <chem|st> it was... but somehow isn't anymore
May 31 22:12:37 <MrPingu> Sure, community-coders can't submit their "app" so I guess they can join this programm
May 31 22:12:44 <chem|st> yes
May 31 22:14:24 <vi__> what was the last build of fennec for the n900?
May 31 22:17:07 <Estel_> chem|st, would agree, but a) rules stated "contributed for past months/years" and b) we're going to consider ammount of contribution, not necessary timeline. Sure, contributing @ high ammount for many years is going to be additional bonus...
May 31 22:17:30 <Estel_> ...and, probably, someone registered on 2012 have 0 chances for device - except for exceptional ;) cases, which, currently, i'm not aware of...
May 31 22:17:38 <Estel_> but, it's not required to be "old timer" to win
May 31 22:18:00 <Estel_> even good ammoutn of contribution during past year can be enough. Of cours eit depends on other submission's quality
May 31 22:18:34 <beford> hopefully davidp applies for something, would be nice to have a J2ME vm on harmattan
May 31 22:18:47 <Estel_> beford, CA program isn't mean to boost harma
May 31 22:18:54 <Estel_> BTW, j2me on harm is available for ages
May 31 22:18:56 <chem|st> vi__: 7.0.1-2
May 31 22:18:58 <Estel_> via Davy's package
May 31 22:19:50 <MrPingu> chem|st that's not the last, I have seen fennec 12 for N900
May 31 22:19:55 <Estel_> 3rd, if You wan't him to submit, jsut talk with him
May 31 22:20:01 <Estel_> inform him about program (he may not be aware of)
May 31 22:20:07 <Estel_> and write him why You think he should submit
May 31 22:20:17 <Estel_> after all, faciliating communication is one of "hidden goals" of this program
May 31 22:20:18 <chem|st> MrPingu: that is the one from devel
May 31 22:20:27 <beford> i said something
May 31 22:20:29 <beford> not CA
May 31 22:20:34 <Estel_> due to self-submissions, people need to TALK with own "idols", not only thjrow names in hat
May 31 22:20:34 <chem|st> at least I upgraded yesterday
May 31 22:20:49 <Estel_> chem|st, veriso in devel is outdated
May 31 22:20:58 <Estel_> vi_, you will be dissapointed, fennec on Maemo suxx balld
May 31 22:21:13 <MrPingu> +1: used once and never again
May 31 22:21:36 <chem|st> Estel_: the version on ovi is even older...
May 31 22:21:41 <Estel_> even marking text for copying/paste isn't officvially implemented, lol
May 31 22:21:50 <chem|st> I use it for syncing
May 31 22:21:54 <Estel_> chem|st, I'msurprised that anyone ever care for Ovi, i.e. submit anything there
May 31 22:21:59 <Estel_> I see.
May 31 22:22:17 <Estel_> yea, syncing can be a pros. Personally, I use other services to achieve that
May 31 22:22:18 <nox-> as someone here once said, fennec eats ram like candy
May 31 22:22:34 <chem|st> copy urls from it my desktop saves to sync folder... only
May 31 22:22:40 <Estel_> fennec doesn't offer full browser features - like chromium or iceweasel via ED - yet, it's much slower than microB
May 31 22:22:51 <Estel_> microB owns it and do circle arround fennec
May 31 22:22:54 <Estel_> circles*
May 31 22:22:59 <MrPingu> I only go to for airport and connect4, 2 good really nice games IMO
May 31 22:23:11 <Estel_> considering engine behind microB and it's legacy, it's a big LOL
May 31 22:23:33 <nox-> Estel_, if n900 had 1G RAM fennec probably would be pretty usable...
May 31 22:23:41 <MrPingu> if...
May 31 22:23:46 <Estel_> ...but still lacking features
May 31 22:23:46 <nox-> yeah
May 31 22:24:02 <Estel_> ....to justify being so much resource hungry
May 31 22:24:10 <nox-> yeah
May 31 22:24:38 <Estel_> with 1Gb of ram I would be using chromium via Ed without any slowdowns, and either way wouldn't care about fennced :) BTw, i'm using chromium even with our 256 MB of RAM...
May 31 22:24:45 <Estel_> many times, with 20+ TMO tabs opened
May 31 22:25:01 <Estel_> I got a habit of enabling everything from TMO control panel first, then, rerad and eventually reply and close one by one
May 31 22:25:09 <Estel_> works exceptionally well, even considering swapping
May 31 22:25:14 <nox-> heh i hadn't even noticed n900 has chromium...
May 31 22:25:23 <Estel_> you won't find it in repos
May 31 22:25:28 <nox-> oh
May 31 22:25:28 <Estel_> I use iot via Easy Debian
May 31 22:25:31 <MrPingu> I don't get it, never got it as smooth as you saying
May 31 22:25:37 <vi__> I think I am managing to make 64MB ramz stable.
May 31 22:25:47 <Estel_> MrPingu, maybe i'm just more proof for getting irritated by slowdowns?:P
May 31 22:25:49 <vi__> so was wandering about fennec.
May 31 22:25:55 <Estel_> MrPingu, tried swap-related settings as per Ed threaD?
May 31 22:26:02 <Estel_> i.e. ones suggested by freemangordon and me?
May 31 22:26:11 <vi__> however if it has no features then...meh
May 31 22:26:15 <Estel_> bundled with swap on microSd and Ed on native partition?
May 31 22:26:39 <Estel_> vi_, fennec is like opera mini, except that it run 10 time slower
May 31 22:26:44 <MrPingu> Yes, i even have it saved :P
May 31 22:26:55 <Estel_> MrPingu, hm, hoe your slowdowns look like?
May 31 22:27:01 <Estel_> i.e. how you "perceive" it?
May 31 22:27:07 <vi__> so...quite useless.
May 31 22:27:19 <MrPingu> swap on uSD however no partitions?
May 31 22:27:35 <Estel_> Honestly, I wonder what for freemangordon is using Opera mini - I have strong dislike for this browser... Just curiosity
May 31 22:27:48 <Estel_> MrPingu? I don't understand?
May 31 22:28:22 <MrPingu> popular sites are quite good optimized for opera mini
May 31 22:28:26 <vi__> estel probably for the server side rendering.
May 31 22:28:40 <Estel_> vi_, it's achievable without opera mini
May 31 22:28:45 <MrPingu> Besides opera mini has really good data-compression
May 31 22:28:47 <vi__> and tiny footprint.
May 31 22:29:23 <Estel_> probably You're right. I'm, OTOH, doing everything to *not* allow sites showing me mobile version of pages
May 31 22:29:27 <Estel_> under any circumstances :P
May 31 22:29:35 <MrPingu> What don't you understand?
May 31 22:29:46 <Estel_> <MrPingu> swap on uSD however no partitions?
May 31 22:29:54 <vi__> sometimes the mobile site is better.
May 31 22:30:06 <vi__> MrPingu: he means a swap file.
May 31 22:30:21 <MrPingu> Hmm I fail at writing :P
May 31 22:30:22 <Estel_> probably right, either I don't even like google mobile view, so about others...
May 31 22:30:28 <Estel_> It jsut seem crippled.
May 31 22:30:48 <MrPingu> I meant swap is on uSD but I have no dedicated partition for ED
May 31 22:30:48 <Estel_> MrPingu, theoretically, proper swap file should be ok...
May 31 22:30:55 <Estel_> But I use dedicated partition for it
May 31 22:30:59 <Estel_> ah
May 31 22:31:01 <Estel_> well
May 31 22:31:04 <Estel_> so it *must* be slow
May 31 22:31:17 <Estel_> as loopback file from vfat or whatsnot is much slower than native debian partition
May 31 22:31:20 <MrPingu> I have dedicated partition for swap too ;)
May 31 22:31:27 <vi__> what must be slow?
May 31 22:31:32 <vi__> a swap file?
May 31 22:31:38 <Estel_> vi_, Easy Debian via image file instead of dedicated partition
May 31 22:31:54 <vi__> I wanna see some numbers first.
May 31 22:32:12 <MrPingu> I see, time to hook my device to pc and use Gparted
May 31 22:32:15 <Estel_> vi__, some posted on Ed thread
May 31 22:32:34 <Estel_> MrPingu, yes, or use gparted from within ED
May 31 22:32:49 <Estel_> if You're not resizing partition, where Ed reside :P
May 31 22:32:56 <Estel_> as it would bring fun results
May 31 22:33:53 <Estel_> BTw, I would *love* some CLI to easy re-partitioning from recovery console
May 31 22:34:05 <vi__> cfdisk
May 31 22:34:07 <Estel_> i.e. writing partitions and their sizes, where CLI handles rest
May 31 22:34:14 <Estel_> hm?
May 31 22:34:24 <vi__> you know cfdisk?
May 31 22:34:34 <Estel_> yea, but it's usable fromk within backupmenu root console?
May 31 22:34:40 <Estel_> or recovery shell root console?
May 31 22:34:45 <Estel_> remember, most things aren't mounted there
May 31 22:34:55 <Estel_> proper CLI for our needs should intelligently mount necessary things
May 31 22:34:59 <Estel_> and cp them to tmp
May 31 22:35:03 <vi__> if it was available on rootfs I do not see why not.
May 31 22:35:06 <Estel_> to have full write access to partitions later
May 31 22:35:21 <MrPingu> :p I will just use PC, seems most convenient way to me
May 31 22:35:40 <Estel_> MrPingu, agree, would just love to be totally independent from 2nd machine
May 31 22:35:58 <Estel_> i.e. I'm inside amazon jungle, and feel urge to repartition my N900...
May 31 22:35:59 <Estel_> :P
May 31 22:36:07 <vi__> Estel_: how to check how many MB have been written to swap?
May 31 22:36:17 <Estel_> vi, is You're using busybox power
May 31 22:36:29 <vi__> I have iostat
May 31 22:36:52 <Estel_> well, asked me about it some time ago, i answered You viua PM :P but, it is:
May 31 22:37:08 <vi__>  iostat -m -d?
May 31 22:38:10 <Estel_> iostat -md mmcblk*p* | grep mmcblk*p* | awk '{print $6)')
May 31 22:38:29 <Estel_> s/$6)/$6}/
May 31 22:38:29 <infobot> Estel_ meant: iostat -md mmcblk*p* | grep mmcblk*p* | awk '{print $6}')
May 31 22:38:40 <Estel_> replace * with Your swap partition
May 31 22:38:42 <Estel_> although
May 31 22:38:57 <Estel_> someone proposed me a better solutions that doesn't involve iostat
May 31 22:39:05 <Estel_> and ones that are able to even count swap files instead of partitions
May 31 22:41:44 <Estel_> merlin1991, ping
May 31 22:41:49 <Estel_> freemangordon, ping
May 31 22:43:44 <DocScrutinizer51> ( <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, the differenc eis that - if You include also your TMO link and word "submissions" - you may actually receive it) WTF TMO link??!!
May 31 22:44:02 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, read wiki for CA
May 31 22:44:09 <Estel_> requiments for submission
May 31 22:44:10 <DocScrutinizer51> dafaq
May 31 22:44:17 <Estel_> i'm quoting from head:
May 31 22:44:18 <Sc0rpius> heh
May 31 22:44:42 <Estel_> "...and link to TMO account, or - in case of user who doesn't have TMO account - information about it"
May 31 22:44:49 <DocScrutinizer51> ooh great, register with trolls,morons,oxes or you won't stand a chance to receive a free device
May 31 22:44:50 <Estel_> it's written with better grammar on wiki ;)
May 31 22:45:00 <Estel_> erm?
May 31 22:45:14 <Estel_> Doc as ussual :>
May 31 22:45:20 <Estel_> having TMO accounts isn't requiment
May 31 22:45:38 <Estel_> but information about it (not having, or link if have) is required
May 31 22:45:47 <Estel_> also, IIRC You're also registered on TMO
May 31 22:45:55 <Estel_> so you're toll, moron, or oxe?
May 31 22:45:59 <Estel_> s/tool/troll/
May 31 22:45:59 <Sc0rpius> what do I need to do to receieve a free device?
May 31 22:46:07 <Sc0rpius> s/receieve/receive
May 31 22:46:07 <DocScrutinizer51> no, I deleted account 2 minutes ago
May 31 22:46:14 <Estel_> Sc0rpius, being dedicated contributor to Maemo Community for past few months/years
May 31 22:46:25 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, going psycho?:P
May 31 22:46:30 <vi__> DocScrutinizer51: you lie.
May 31 22:46:31 <Sc0rpius> well I've been a contributorç
May 31 22:46:34 <Estel_> ok, so Yuo was troll, moron, or oxe?
May 31 22:46:36 <Sc0rpius> not sure if dedicated, we all have jobs
May 31 22:47:01 <Estel_> Sc0rpius, 2nd link:
May 31 22:47:02 <Estel_> http://maemo.org/news/
May 31 22:47:23 <DocScrutinizer51> what do you expect? with users like estel in chan, a chanop MUST go psycho, sooner rather than later
May 31 22:47:39 <Estel_> ha! finally, pure truth, without any FUD :P
May 31 22:48:09 <Estel_> BTw, fun fact - major negatrons for Ca, like DocScrutinizer, teotwaki and so goes on tends to fail @ reading short annoucement for Ca/it's wiki page
May 31 22:48:22 <Estel_> i.e. half of my liens about Ca her eis clearing those fuds, like
May 31 22:48:30 <Estel_> <DocScrutinizer51> ooh great, register with trolls,morons,oxes or you won't stand a chance to receive a free device
May 31 22:48:44 <Estel_> (obviously wrong, as TMO account is not a requiment)
May 31 22:49:14 <Estel_> or some claims from teotwaki, that I don't mention now, as I forget them as soon as replied that it's wrong info.
May 31 22:49:40 <RiD> daddy's back
May 31 22:49:49 <Estel_> Bid Daddy?
May 31 22:49:52 <Estel_> like in Bioshock?
May 31 22:49:55 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: one of your usual misconceptions, that come as lies. I'm not failing, I just Can't Be Arsed
May 31 22:49:59 <RiD> uh oh. I apologize
May 31 22:50:06 <RiD> not intended for this channel lol
May 31 22:50:39 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, which don't change fact, that You're making FUD statements about CA all the time, without even reading it's rules, written in less than 1 page
May 31 22:50:45 <Estel_> not tell me that it isn't trolling
May 31 22:51:03 <vi__> RiD: lols, wb uncle badtouch.
May 31 22:51:07 <DocScrutinizer51> no, YOU are making FUD and BS statements
May 31 22:51:08 <Estel_> i *still* belive that it's not on purpose, though.
May 31 22:51:13 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm just commenting
May 31 22:51:14 <Estel_> about CA? ;)
May 31 22:51:24 <RiD> vi__ hmm? 
May 31 22:51:33 <GeneralAntilles> This argument is still going?
May 31 22:51:33 <Estel_> ah, so plain wrong statement about having account on TMO to receive Ca is "just commenting"
May 31 22:51:40 <GeneralAntilles> Can't you both move on to something more productive?
May 31 22:51:41 <Estel_> GeneralAntilles, no
May 31 22:51:44 <Estel_> just started again
May 31 22:51:50 <Estel_> :P
May 31 22:51:58 <Estel_> actually, 15 second before Your arrival
May 31 22:52:01 <vi__> Estel_: I think it was sarcasm.
May 31 22:52:22 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: you're an idiot, or a bad sneacky guy, with all respect
May 31 22:52:23 <Estel_> well. With chanops like DocScrutinizer user must fail to see obvious sarcasm at some point :P
May 31 22:52:30 <Estel_> yea, full respect took.
May 31 22:52:53 <DocScrutinizer51> [01.06.2012 00:43:43] <DocScrutinizer51> ( <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, the differenc eis that - if You include also your TMO link and word "submissions" - you may actually receive it) WTF TMO link??!!
May 31 22:53:04 <Estel_> If I come here and say "HEN is making people's device to fry like bad toaster!11!!1" will it be just comment too?
May 31 22:53:18 <Estel_> <DocScrutinizer51> ooh great, register with trolls,morons,oxes or you won't stand a chance to receive a free device
May 31 22:53:41 <Estel_> no. TMO account is not a requiment. You could know it by actually reading CA announce/rules JUST ONCE.
May 31 22:53:46 <Estel_> EOt for me.
May 31 22:53:58 <DocScrutinizer51> I keep my rating about your mental healt
May 31 22:54:00 <DocScrutinizer51> h
May 31 22:54:09 <Estel_> take your time.
May 31 22:54:21 <Estel_> gl & hf.
May 31 22:54:43 <GeneralAntilles> Ok. Enough.
May 31 22:55:00 <GeneralAntilles> That's has clearly descended past a reasonable discussion into the realm of personal insults.
May 31 22:55:22 <GeneralAntilles> 24 hour moratorium on discussion of the merits of the Community Awards program.
May 31 22:55:31 <GeneralAntilles> If you have problems, take it to the mailing lists.
May 31 22:56:05 <DocScrutinizer51> Number one FUD statement: <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, which don't change fact, that You're making FUD statements about CA all the time, without even reading it's rules, written in less than 1 page
May 31 22:56:43 <Estel_> GeneralAntilles, sounds like screaming into the wild ;)
May 31 22:57:44 <merlin1991> Estel_: pong
May 31 22:58:57 <DocScrutinizer51> GeneralAntilles: could you please +q me and estel for 48h?
May 31 22:59:38 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer51, you're both adults.
May 31 23:00:05 <GeneralAntilles> There's no need for this little argument to preclude useful discussion.
May 31 23:00:12 <RiD> i have no idea what im reading
May 31 23:00:17 <DocScrutinizer51> I have severe doubts about that. For both parties, though for different reasons on each side
May 31 23:00:32 <GeneralAntilles> Well, consider this the First Warning.
May 31 23:00:52 <GeneralAntilles> You only get one. Further action will be dependent on how this turns out. ;)
May 31 23:01:18 <DocScrutinizer51> oh well, then I take better measures
May 31 23:02:59 <DocScrutinizer> oops, another one
May 31 23:04:28 <Estel_> Well, honestly, i would be glad if You wouldn't tell in my name about +q - I got some things to attend on IRC too.
May 31 23:04:46 <Estel_> BTw, i'm all for civilised discussion without calling names etc, so no problem for me, i think./
May 31 23:05:01 <Estel_> After all, there is nowhere a rule that we must agree on every matter :)
May 31 23:05:23 <Estel_> lets proclaim it a "unsolved difference of pov's", and move along.
May 31 23:05:26 <RiD> we wouldn't be alive if we did
May 31 23:29:33 <MrPingu> time to sleep for this little guy, cya
May 31 23:30:00 <RiD> Penguins
May 31 23:30:06 <RiD> sleep with them
May 31 23:30:34 <RiD> i'm off too
May 31 23:30:49 <MrPingu> actually I do :P
May 31 23:31:09 <Estel_> good night :)
May 31 23:31:34 <MrPingu> I have about 9 pluche penguins lying at the end of my bed. I love penguins, hence my name :P
May 31 23:31:49 <RiD> dude
May 31 23:31:56 <RiD> i think you have a mental problem lol
May 31 23:32:00 <MrPingu> Good night
May 31 23:32:16 <RiD> why dont you like ponies like everyone else
May 31 23:32:37 <MrPingu> Really? Maybe I just need to grow up :P
Jun 01 01:07:14 <LittleOzzie> hello, any idea if there's an app to gonnect google drive to maemo on my N900?
Jun 01 01:11:22 <iphar> i'm LittleOzzie, i'll leave this client open from my remote machine, so i can see if anyone answers
Jun 01 01:11:24 <iphar> good night
Jun 01 02:23:01 <Hurrian> it looks like qole owes nokia 500 bucks
Jun 01 02:23:11 <GeneralAntilles> nou
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 01 02:59:58 2012