**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 20 02:59:59 2012
Jun 20 03:00:48 <EdLin> somebody claimed that Nokia said in their shareholder minutes that maemo.org was going to get shut down, is anything being done about that?
Jun 20 03:08:50 <Sc0rpius> that's a fact indeed, and there's a thread in talk.maemo.org about it
Jun 20 03:09:12 <LaoLang_cool> oh, bad news
Jun 20 03:09:33 <EdLin> Sc0rpius, if I got a nokia n900, as a sort of upgrade to my n810 and as a new device to hack with, would the repositories become shut down?
Jun 20 03:09:47 <Sc0rpius> yeah, everything will be down
Jun 20 03:10:06 <Sc0rpius> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84933
Jun 20 03:10:08 <EdLin> Sc0rpius, I assume I could just plug in the new repositories, are there mirrors yet?
Jun 20 03:10:09 <Sc0rpius> read that thread
Jun 20 03:10:21 <Sc0rpius> and who's paying
Jun 20 03:10:29 <Sc0rpius> who will pay new repositories, new websites, new everything?
Jun 20 03:10:45 <EdLin> Sc0rpius, it'd be possible to host the repositories somewhere, plenty of Linux distributions do this.
Jun 20 03:10:46 <Sc0rpius> while nobody is paying, there's no solution.
Jun 20 03:11:06 <Sc0rpius> you can start reading the whole thread first, understanding it, and then post your comment and ideas there.
Jun 20 03:11:27 <EdLin> Do I have to? Lots of trolls on TMO. :)
Jun 20 03:12:17 <EdLin> I already read the first couple of pages.
Jun 20 03:12:46 <EdLin> what I don't see is anyone stepping forward to try to find mirrors who'll take the maemo repos.
Jun 20 03:13:12 <Sc0rpius> well 
Jun 20 03:13:18 <EdLin> unfortunately I haven't been in academia for a long time, or I'd have the connections neccesary to arrange it.
Jun 20 03:13:20 <Sc0rpius> it's not that easy that's why I'm pointing to the thread
Jun 20 03:13:26 <EdLin> but someone is.
Jun 20 03:13:51 <Sc0rpius> Nokia should sell the domains, because if you create new repos, people at talk.maemo.org and this channel will find out, but we're only like 1% of the MAemo users worldwide.
Jun 20 03:13:59 <Sc0rpius> and the other 99% can't be fucked up like that
Jun 20 03:14:11 <Sc0rpius> so the domain names should be kept identical
Jun 20 03:14:14 <EdLin> there are non-enthusiasts who use the n900?
Jun 20 03:14:32 <Sc0rpius> if there are 500,000 N900 users in the world, only 1,000 go to maemo.org
Jun 20 03:14:49 <Sc0rpius> I have found many N900 users and never heard about maemo.org
Jun 20 03:15:03 <EdLin> as for Nokia selling the domains, look at what the MS-owned-and-operated management did with the N9 and consider the chances that they would avoid fucking us over.
Jun 20 03:15:35 <EdLin> I mean, it won't hurt to ask.
Jun 20 03:15:40 <EdLin> but don't count on it.
Jun 20 03:15:45 <Sc0rpius> that's what the council is for
Jun 20 03:16:10 <EdLin> well, does the council appear to have that on their agenda?
Jun 20 03:16:28 <Sc0rpius> I don't know you can ask Estel when he's around (he usually is)
Jun 20 03:17:03 <Sc0rpius> but I think that has been addressed in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84647
Jun 20 03:17:25 <EdLin> I'm concerned that one day my n810 will be inoperative, and until I heard this news, was considering switching to an n900. But if nobody seems interested in doing anything but moving on to bigger or better things....
Jun 20 03:18:14 <Sc0rpius> you don't have an N900?¿
Jun 20 03:18:34 <ShadowJK> I currently have 2 working N900s
Jun 20 03:18:35 <Sc0rpius> I wouldn't suggest anyone TODAY to get one, or an N9, or any other already-dropped-and-forgotten Nokia
Jun 20 03:19:03 <Sc0rpius> and anyway there's no place left to buy one hehe
Jun 20 03:19:05 <ShadowJK> As N810 replacement, N900 is fine.
Jun 20 03:19:14 <ShadowJK> Depends what aspects of N810 you like
Jun 20 03:19:33 <EdLin> Sc0rpius, I have an n810, considering getting an n900 on eBay.
Jun 20 03:19:55 <EdLin> ShadowJK, I like that it's like a small Linux computer, rather than a locked down phone thingie.
Jun 20 03:20:52 <ShadowJK> N9 is a bit locked down, N900 is like "install rootshell from app manager, type root in x-terminal", and you've got full access
Jun 20 03:21:30 <EdLin> ShadowJK, so I hear, that's why I want a n900 rather than an n9. Price also plays a role, ebay sells n900s more in my budget range.
Jun 20 03:22:27 <Sc0rpius> :S
Jun 20 03:22:28 <EdLin> but if the repos will go belly-under, with everyone doing nothing but whine about it, I think I'll stick to hacking my HD2 with various closed sorts of operating systems.
Jun 20 03:22:35 <Sc0rpius> N900 is already 5 years old
Jun 20 03:22:48 <EdLin> no, it's from 2009.
Jun 20 03:22:56 <Sc0rpius> well, 3 years old, that's a lot for a phone
Jun 20 03:22:59 <EdLin> true.
Jun 20 03:23:04 <ShadowJK> December 2009
Jun 20 03:23:06 <EdLin> but nothing else has come along like it.
Jun 20 03:23:17 <Sc0rpius> true...
Jun 20 03:23:18 <Sc0rpius> and never will
Jun 20 03:23:35 <ShadowJK> maemo.org has guaranteed funding until end of year, iirc
Jun 20 03:23:49 <Sc0rpius> the world is not ready for 100% OpenSource OSes yet.  The world is not ready for not making tons and tons of money selling a phone
Jun 20 03:23:53 <EdLin> that's 6 months.
Jun 20 03:24:00 <ShadowJK> And there are more than one person doing daily mirrors of it...
Jun 20 03:24:10 <EdLin> ShadowJK, that's nice to hear.
Jun 20 03:24:14 <ShadowJK> it works on 12 month cycles, iirc
Jun 20 03:24:53 <ShadowJK> People disappear on vacation in June, return in September-ish and start looking at what to fund
Jun 20 03:25:05 <ShadowJK> or something like that
Jun 20 03:25:31 <EdLin> ShadowJK, yeah, Europeans have real vacations. ;-)
Jun 20 03:26:06 <EdLin> here you're part of the ruling class if you get 2 weeks.
Jun 20 03:26:28 <ShadowJK> Well it's that northern europe starts in June, and southern europe starts in septemner, so it takes until october until you can expect nobody to be missing
Jun 20 03:26:53 <EdLin> I see.
Jun 20 03:28:14 <EdLin> so that means, assuming 6 months notice, we can probably assume maemo devices will have working repos until April of next year.
Jun 20 03:29:01 <EdLin> that gives the council plenty of time to work with the community to find an alternative, instead of saying not to worry about it.
Jun 20 04:21:41 <luke-jr> Sc0rpius: Think N900 will one day run a 100% open source OS? :P
Jun 20 05:49:24 <kerio> luke-jr: well, CSSU is getting pretty close, isn't it
Jun 20 05:50:12 <luke-jr> kerio: doubt it, but I don't really follow CSSU
Jun 20 05:50:39 <luke-jr> kerio: Maemo was only like 40% open source to begin with; replacing most of the system doesn't seem so trivial
Jun 20 05:50:53 <kerio> yeah but that's what they've been doing :)
Jun 20 05:51:13 <luke-jr> and there's stuff like the GLES drivers that are huge efforts to recreate
Jun 20 05:51:28 <kerio> anyway, the n900 is from 2009 but it was outdated at launch
Jun 20 05:51:43 <luke-jr> yeah, nothing better yet tho :/
Jun 20 05:51:48 <kerio> yeah :(
Jun 20 05:52:02 <kerio> i really hate the fact that i'm probably just going to get a galaxy s3
Jun 20 05:52:15 <kerio> and deal with the awful OS
Jun 20 05:52:24 <luke-jr> I really hope I win a N950
Jun 20 05:57:08 <LaoLang_cool>  /j #vim
Jun 20 05:57:49 <kerio> LaoLang_cool: wrong editor
Jun 20 05:59:20 <LaoLang_cool> kerio, I really like it on n900
Jun 20 05:59:29 <kerio> but... emacs! :c
Jun 20 06:03:57 <LaoLang_cool> kerio, heh, vim is the only reason I choose n900
Jun 20 06:04:06 <luke-jr> but nano
Jun 20 07:04:08 <zeq_laptop> I'm trying to rebuild qtm11/12, I've fixed a couple of unexpected build bugs in the maemo support (how did it build successfully previously?).  Now apparently, it needs an updated libtpsession, so I tried to check it out from vcs.maemo.org, but the SSL cert expired on 30/12/11!?!
Jun 20 07:09:56 <LaoLang_cool> How to set the mec.ini to let the led notification always on?
Jun 20 07:17:00 <zeq_laptop> never mind, it's a libtelepathy-qt4 change that's causing the build failure
Jun 20 07:26:07 <zeq_laptop> *sigh* where did qt-mobility-1.14 even come from? http://get.qt.nokia.com/qt/add-ons/ has the latest 1.1 version @1.1.3... git checkout I suppose...
Jun 20 07:41:24 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: seems like libqtm-11 isn't maintained anymore, last commit from from September last year, and it no longer compiles against our current version of libtelepathy-qt4.  I could fix it, but should I just concentrate on libqtm-12 instead? Is there any reason for the non-modular packaging with libqtm-12?
Jun 20 08:20:46 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: I've successfully built both now.  While I'm working on this, should I change the packaging for libqtm12 to match libqtm11, and/or update the libqtm12 snapshot?
Jun 20 09:01:48 <brzys> vquit
Jun 20 09:03:16 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: hmm, how you will distribute those, through CSSU-thumb? through extras-devel? We'd better ask merlin1991, maybe those should be made a part from CSSU
Jun 20 09:03:50 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: I am really not the best person to ask about packaging :)
Jun 20 09:04:02 <freemangordon> merlin1991: ^^^
Jun 20 09:04:37 <zeq_laptop> who's using qtm12 is the question
Jun 20 09:05:41 <zeq_laptop> I'm going to be away for a few hours, I'll have my N900, so I'll be on IRC, but won't be able to work on anything or necessarily reply straight away
Jun 20 09:05:53 <freemangordon> MohammadAG: sociality is using qt-mobility 1.2.0? qmltube?
Jun 20 09:05:57 <brzys> cehteh, i tried with -t ext3 or -t auto - sorry for reply, i just fall sleep xD
Jun 20 09:06:08 <brzys> sorry for long reply*
Jun 20 09:06:36 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: did you successfuly build fennec?
Jun 20 09:06:39 <zeq_laptop> there seems to be an issue with libtpsession not being compatible with the version of telepathy-qt
Jun 20 09:07:01 <zeq_laptop> it's building now against qtm12 so hopefully it will complete
Jun 20 09:07:41 <MohammadAG> freemangordon: What does QtMobility have to do with qmltube?
Jun 20 09:07:42 <zeq_laptop> it depends if I hit anything new :)
Jun 20 09:07:42 <MohammadAG> But yeah, it uses QtM 1.2 for location and media playback
Jun 20 09:07:48 <MohammadAG> It used phonon at some point afaik, but that didn't work
Jun 20 09:08:32 <freemangordon> MohammadAG: we're trying to figure out what will break, see backscroll :)
Jun 20 09:08:48 * zeq_laptop is switching over to the N900 now
Jun 20 09:09:07 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: hopefully nothing will!
Jun 20 09:09:13 <freemangordon> yeah
Jun 20 09:09:19 <MohammadAG> What will WHAT?
Jun 20 09:09:25 <freemangordon> break
Jun 20 09:09:34 <zeq_laptop> at the moment the only change other that rebuild is the inclusion of the pkgconfig files
Jun 20 09:09:48 * freemangordon gives MohammadAG a cup of coffe
Jun 20 09:09:57 <freemangordon> *coffee
Jun 20 09:09:58 <zeq_laptop> I was strange that I had to patch a few build breakages though
Jun 20 09:10:13 <zeq_laptop> strange that it ever built in the first place
Jun 20 09:10:28 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: unfortunately qtm maintainer seems to not care anymore
Jun 20 09:10:28 <MohammadAG> Why would it break then :P
Jun 20 09:10:44 <MohammadAG> freemangordon: Thanks, it's ice coffee right?
Jun 20 09:10:44 <zeq_laptop> MohammadAG: that wouldn't break it
Jun 20 09:10:56 <zeq_laptop> I was/am considering updating the snapshot
Jun 20 09:11:01 <freemangordon> MohammadAG: irish
Jun 20 09:11:11 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: where is that snapshot?
Jun 20 09:11:30 <zeq_laptop> not sure probably -extras
Jun 20 09:11:44 <zeq_laptop> I just pulled it in with apt-get source
Jun 20 09:12:01 <zeq_laptop> didn't really pay attention
Jun 20 09:12:28 <freemangordon> hmm, you need to be a maintainer in order to put the package in extras-devel
Jun 20 09:12:43 <zeq> I'm away from the laptop now
Jun 20 09:12:45 <freemangordon> *the maintainer of the package
Jun 20 09:13:17 <zeq> even if it's unmaintained?
Jun 20 09:14:04 <freemangordon> well, there is a maintainer listed in extras, even if not active. You have to request maintainership
Jun 20 09:15:25 <zeq> I guess I should fire off an email once I get this working
Jun 20 09:16:42 <freemangordon> yep
Jun 20 09:18:21 <zeq> any idea about tpsession and telepathy-qt4?
Jun 20 09:18:38 <freemangordon> no
Jun 20 09:18:53 <zeq> tpsession seems to have been left to bit-rot by nokia
Jun 20 09:20:34 <zeq> it doesn't build against telepathy-qt4 in (from CSSU I presume)
Jun 20 09:22:10 <freemangordon> well, could be, what is in CSSU is 4.7.4 and it was build agains 4.7.0
Jun 20 09:27:42 <SpeedEvil> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/06/20/049229/microsoft-to-pc-and-tablet-makers-youre-not-our-future - deeply scary.
Jun 20 09:31:41 <freemangordon> SpeedEvil: why scary, effectively he is actually putting linux on these "other manifacturers PCs, laptops,..". Or you think Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc will stick to Win7 or some crippled Win8 version M$ is going to give them?
Jun 20 09:34:20 <SpeedEvil> It's scary because it could lead to a future with a greatly reduced number of laptop makers, with lower investment.
Jun 20 09:34:28 <SpeedEvil> And the best hardware will never run linux.
Jun 20 09:42:10 <teotwaki> Why never?
Jun 20 09:42:51 <SpeedEvil> The slashdot link.
Jun 20 09:43:07 <SpeedEvil> Microsofts aspiration to be a hardware maker too.
Jun 20 09:43:24 <teotwaki> I don't believe that, even if I have to rip out the HCM with my teeth and solder the shit out of my mobo so that I can run whatever I want, that's what I'll do.
Jun 20 09:43:54 <teotwaki> Heck, I'm fairly sure that the same way we've got geeks making makerbots, we'll see alternate companies, small time, sure, but making mobos and whatnot that can run anything we want
Jun 20 09:44:35 <SpeedEvil> The problem then arises that the CPU is only sold with the trusted module installed.
Jun 20 09:44:48 <SpeedEvil> And at best - if you can get 'blank' CPUs - you have to replace it.
Jun 20 09:45:04 <SpeedEvil> If you can't, then you're faced with a brick.
Jun 20 09:46:00 <teotwaki> Yeah, I don't see that happening
Jun 20 09:46:21 <teotwaki> Even if Shuttleworth has to throw all his money at that lawsuit, he will.
Jun 20 09:46:23 <SpeedEvil> It's already almost there. Some CPUs already pretty much support this.
Jun 20 09:46:41 <SpeedEvil> err - what?
Jun 20 09:47:07 <SpeedEvil> It's not illegal,if there are two hardware makers, as there isn't an anti-trust issue
Jun 20 09:47:27 <teotwaki> no, but we can sue them for preventing us from doing what we want with it.
Jun 20 09:47:32 <SpeedEvil> Two locked-down hardware makers - apple/microsoft - are quite legal.
Jun 20 09:47:36 <SpeedEvil> And lose.
Jun 20 09:47:44 <SpeedEvil> You don't have to buy either tablet.
Jun 20 09:47:53 <SpeedEvil> In principle, a third maker could startup.
Jun 20 09:47:55 <teotwaki> Oh, I don't care about the tablet
Jun 20 09:48:20 <SpeedEvil> By tablet, I mean 'computing device'
Jun 20 09:50:04 <teotwaki> Well, I don't buy into all the whole FUD that goes around this time of year
Jun 20 09:50:52 <teotwaki> GNU/Linux was developed to break free from the autocracy of Unix. I'm fairly certain we can do it a second time.
Jun 20 09:51:09 <SpeedEvil> Hardware is a problem.
Jun 20 09:51:14 <teotwaki> No, it's not.
Jun 20 09:51:21 <teotwaki> Look at the hardware we have today, seriously.
Jun 20 09:51:36 <teotwaki> We could run the same hardware for the next ten years, and not give a flying fuck.
Jun 20 09:52:00 <SpeedEvil> If the end user cannoy purchase new hardware - your project has failed.
Jun 20 09:52:11 <SpeedEvil> As a mass market idea.
Jun 20 09:52:38 <teotwaki> I'm not saying that's what is going to happen
Jun 20 09:52:58 <teotwaki> I'm just saying, Amiga is still around, heck, you still find forums for Apple II hobbyists, I doubt you can still buy the hardware.
Jun 20 09:53:30 <teotwaki> And quite frankly, I don't _believe_ in the hardware apocalypse as it being told right now.
Jun 20 09:53:54 <teotwaki> Fuck, I'll start a hardware company if need be.
Jun 20 09:54:36 <SpeedEvil> To make a compelling entry into the tablet/laptop market, you are going to need >>10 million, if you do it from scratch.
Jun 20 09:55:02 <teotwaki> That's not really a problem.
Jun 20 09:55:03 <SpeedEvil> And that assumes you can get components.
Jun 20 09:55:10 <teotwaki> 10M is nothing.
Jun 20 09:55:29 <SpeedEvil> Where compelling = a couple of years old
Jun 20 09:57:58 <vi_> SpeedEvil: I will just run vintage hardware forever then.
Jun 20 09:58:06 <vi_> They cannot take my P4 back.
Jun 20 09:58:21 <vi_> Vim is not getting any heavier.
Jun 20 09:58:29 <SpeedEvil> Until it dies.
Jun 20 09:59:04 <teotwaki> yeah, I'm pretty sure eBay will disappear the day Microsoft goes Evil.
Jun 20 09:59:17 <SpeedEvil> The above is somewhat pessimistic.
Jun 20 09:59:33 <SpeedEvil> It neglects for example chinese tabletmakers, and android.
Jun 20 09:59:43 <teotwaki> I don't believe for a single second that Microsoft is going to abandon the OEMs
Jun 20 09:59:46 <teotwaki> I just _don't_.
Jun 20 10:00:11 <SpeedEvil> But if microsoft + apple could get to the point that they integrate the hardware makers, and manage to capture most of the market - things just got a lot less flexible.
Jun 20 10:00:13 <teotwaki> That's speculative bollocks, funded on nothing but a tin foil hat that's squeezed on a little too tight, and blocking the blood from reaching the brain.
Jun 20 10:00:33 <teotwaki> But Microsoft doesn't want that.
Jun 20 10:00:47 <SpeedEvil> And several years ago, the notion that you cannot run your own programs on a computer would seem very tin-foil-hattish
Jun 20 10:01:09 <teotwaki> Wait, I can't run my own programs on my computer?
Jun 20 10:01:16 <teotwaki> OH LORD, I'VE BEEN LIVING A LIE!
Jun 20 10:01:24 <teotwaki> anyway
Jun 20 10:01:25 <teotwaki> lunch
Jun 20 10:01:26 <teotwaki> 'later
Jun 20 10:01:31 <SpeedEvil> Not on an apple computer, in many instances, without paying tax.
Jun 20 10:12:59 <vi_> I can confirm this.
Jun 20 10:16:46 <kerio> SpeedEvil: not on an iphone
Jun 20 10:16:54 <kerio> which is *far* from being a computer
Jun 20 10:17:07 <kerio> for instance, you can't run your own programs on it, without paying a tax
Jun 20 10:29:23 <vi_> kerio: a iphone IS a computer.
Jun 20 10:29:54 <kerio> vi_: it's a fucking phone
Jun 20 10:30:02 <kerio> a n900 is a computer
Jun 20 10:30:07 <vi_> A locked down box with no controls and a fancy pants UI but a computer none the less.
Jun 20 10:30:47 <mgedmin> this is like discussing whether a tree makes a sound when it falls down in a forest with nobody to hear
Jun 20 10:31:01 <mgedmin> it depends on how you define "sound" -- or "computer"
Jun 20 10:31:12 <kerio> if a tree falls down in a forest, and apple forces you to pay money to develop for it, is it really a computer?
Jun 20 10:31:25 <kerio> no, wait
Jun 20 10:34:09 <vi_> It must be an engineer thing to see things for what they are then.
Jun 20 10:42:48 <Lava_Croft> you know whats so funny about apple
Jun 20 10:42:59 <Lava_Croft> i know tons of people who in their field are quite hacker-esque
Jun 20 10:43:10 <Lava_Croft> say, create they own tools, edit stuff they bought and make it more to their liking
Jun 20 10:43:26 <Lava_Croft> but when it comes to computers and mobiles, they all of a sudden happily embrace being locked down
Jun 20 10:43:37 <Lava_Croft> and when confronted with this odd difference, they just shrug it off
Jun 20 10:47:51 <kerio> Lava_Croft: the iphone is fucking horrible, and the mac pro is kinda meh
Jun 20 10:47:56 <kerio> i mean, it's neat, but nothing really special
Jun 20 10:48:06 <Lava_Croft> iphone is pretty special
Jun 20 10:48:09 <kerio> but the imac is still the best all-in-one desktop
Jun 20 10:48:11 <Lava_Croft> since its really good at the few things it can do
Jun 20 10:48:17 <kerio> and their laptops are fucking awesome
Jun 20 10:48:23 <Lava_Croft> better than nokia or samsung is at these few simple things
Jun 20 10:48:36 <Lava_Croft> but only for those very few things
Jun 20 10:57:29 <chem|st> Lava_Croft: you never had a phone doing those simple things better than iphone...? even my old sony blasts some iphone "features" still
Jun 20 10:57:52 <Lava_Croft> too bad sony never sold more than 10 phones
Jun 20 10:58:02 <Lava_Croft> while people buy silly iphone after silly overpriced iphone
Jun 20 10:58:05 <Lava_Croft> so reality begs to differ
Jun 20 10:58:35 <Sc0rpius> people buy iPhone to say they "can" buy an iPhone, it's like an status thing
Jun 20 10:58:47 <Sc0rpius> like "I have more money than you, look, I drive a Ferrari and I have an iPhone"
Jun 20 10:58:55 <Lava_Croft> not with the iphone users i know
Jun 20 10:59:01 <Lava_Croft> they just want shit that works and feels solid
Jun 20 10:59:01 <Sc0rpius> it's not because the phone is better than other options
Jun 20 10:59:08 <Lava_Croft> but thats the point, it is
Jun 20 10:59:11 <Lava_Croft> both software and hardware
Jun 20 10:59:13 <Sc0rpius> not to me
Jun 20 10:59:14 <chem|st> owning an iphone is like having 1000+ friends on facebook, status...
Jun 20 10:59:17 <Lava_Croft> not to me either
Jun 20 10:59:20 <Sc0rpius> to me an iPhone is pure crap
Jun 20 10:59:20 <Lava_Croft> thats why im here
Jun 20 10:59:26 <Lava_Croft> its not pure crap to me, im not a liar
Jun 20 10:59:34 <Lava_Croft> crap is what samsung makes
Jun 20 10:59:38 <Sc0rpius> I'd rather get a Galaxy S than an iPhone
Jun 20 10:59:40 <chem|st> Lava_Croft: it is not in terms of software nore in terms of hardware
Jun 20 10:59:41 <Lava_Croft> and just about any other android OEM
Jun 20 10:59:50 <Sc0rpius> oh well I love Samsung
Jun 20 10:59:59 <Sc0rpius> all my TVs are Samsung and hell they are way better than Sonys
Jun 20 11:00:00 <chem|st> Lava_Croft: nokia holds the position of best cameraphone for ages now
Jun 20 11:00:21 <Lava_Croft> i should have know better than to say anything positive regarding iphones
Jun 20 11:00:30 <Lava_Croft> you always get bitter nerds
Jun 20 11:00:33 <Lava_Croft> have a nice day!
Jun 20 11:00:44 <Sc0rpius> :S
Jun 20 11:00:48 <Lava_Croft> (and im a n900/n9 user)
Jun 20 11:00:51 <Sc0rpius> funny thing I'm in a rock band how come I am a nerd
Jun 20 11:00:59 <chem|st> Sc0rpius: that is because samsung has the best displays, in terms of smartTV they need to improve alot, in terms of 3D they need to improve a lot more!
Jun 20 11:01:07 <Sc0rpius> I love those SmartTVs
Jun 20 11:01:11 <Sc0rpius> I don't have one though
Jun 20 11:01:16 <Sc0rpius> I have normal Samsung LCD TVs
Jun 20 11:01:19 <Sc0rpius> not even LED
Jun 20 11:01:55 <chem|st> Lava_Croft: bitter nerds? I could buy an iphone or two... but I just don't want this shit...
Jun 20 11:02:11 <Sc0rpius> well my Apple hate is much deeper than that and more ancient
Jun 20 11:02:16 <Lava_Croft> stay bitter
Jun 20 11:02:19 <Lava_Croft> being bitter is very productive
Jun 20 11:02:24 <Sc0rpius> the only product Apple did absolutely right was the Apple ][c
Jun 20 11:02:24 <chem|st> Sc0rpius: I have one, tested the newest gen as well
Jun 20 11:02:28 <Sc0rpius> and even then, the C64 was better.
Jun 20 11:03:05 <Sc0rpius> Steve Jobs has alwasy been a fucking asshole that's why destiny, the devil, or maybe God punished him
Jun 20 11:03:18 <Lava_Croft> you sound mentally disturbed
Jun 20 11:03:20 <Lava_Croft> really
Jun 20 11:03:23 <Sc0rpius> I'm full of hate
Jun 20 11:03:25 <Sc0rpius> that's all
Jun 20 11:03:29 <kerio> Sc0rpius: yeah, he totally deserved liver cancer, right
Jun 20 11:03:31 <Lava_Croft> watch starwars
Jun 20 11:03:36 <kerio> i don't even
Jun 20 11:03:37 <Lava_Croft> theres a green midget in there with some sound advice
Jun 20 11:04:04 <Sc0rpius> I don't know if he deserved it, but there's a saying where I come from that goes something like (it's hard in english) "if you act bad, bad things will happen to you"
Jun 20 11:04:21 <chem|st> Sc0rpius: for artists there is much more "good" in apple than anywhere else, but that is the same with windows then... if those companies would migrate to linux noone would talk about microsoft or apple after 20years from now, apart from once upon a time....
Jun 20 11:04:22 <kerio> Sc0rpius: so... you're saying he deserved it
Jun 20 11:04:25 <Sc0rpius> Lava_Croft, you really sound like an Apple lover
Jun 20 11:04:35 <Lava_Croft> Sc0rpius: yes i dont mindlessly hate on apple
Jun 20 11:04:36 <Sc0rpius> what's good in Apple? just myths
Jun 20 11:04:37 <Sc0rpius> for example
Jun 20 11:04:42 <Lava_Croft> so i must be an apple lover, right
Jun 20 11:04:48 <Sc0rpius> there's a myth that a Mac is better for graphics design and stuff
Jun 20 11:04:55 <Lava_Croft> this is exactly the mindset that ruins communities like these
Jun 20 11:05:02 <Sc0rpius> that's so wrong that there isn't even Photoshop 64 bits for Macs
Jun 20 11:05:04 <Lava_Croft> you hate so much on what is not your community/device
Jun 20 11:05:08 <Lava_Croft> in an attempt to make your own look better
Jun 20 11:05:16 <chem|st> Lava_Croft: I do not say this and that is the best, but all apple fanboys tell apple is the best...
Jun 20 11:05:19 <Lava_Croft> but imagine that some vacuum cleaner salesman comes at your door
Jun 20 11:05:22 <chem|st> and it isn't
Jun 20 11:05:26 <Lava_Croft> and instead of tell you how awesome his vacuum cleaner is
Jun 20 11:05:29 <chem|st> it is not even close to
Jun 20 11:05:30 <Sc0rpius> well I'm the first one that always say NO to people that come here asking if they should get an N900
Jun 20 11:05:33 <kerio> Sc0rpius: you mean except photoshop cs5
Jun 20 11:05:33 <Lava_Croft> he starts to tell you how bad your current one is
Jun 20 11:05:37 <Lava_Croft> thats a rather bad sales tactic
Jun 20 11:05:41 <chem|st> it is what attracts dumb people
Jun 20 11:05:46 <Lava_Croft> certainly when im already using the device you love so much
Jun 20 11:05:48 <chem|st> like whatsapp for example
Jun 20 11:05:48 <Sc0rpius> Lava_Croft, I could care less if you use an N9 N900 or an Android phone
Jun 20 11:05:55 <Sc0rpius> but if you use Apple, you should be hated
Jun 20 11:06:00 <chem|st> people jump on the bandwagon
Jun 20 11:06:04 <Sc0rpius> by anyone, anywhere.
Jun 20 11:06:18 <Lava_Croft> stay bitter
Jun 20 11:06:24 <Sc0rpius> :)
Jun 20 11:06:30 <kerio> Sc0rpius: i would totally agree with you
Jun 20 11:06:37 <kerio> except for the fact THAT THEY MAKE THE BEST LAPTOPS
Jun 20 11:06:43 <Sc0rpius> but it's true what I said, Apple has just "fame" but they are not better in anything than other options.
Jun 20 11:06:55 <kerio> nothing comes anywhere *close*
Jun 20 11:07:05 <Sc0rpius> to a Macbook?
Jun 20 11:07:08 <kerio> yep
Jun 20 11:07:26 <Sc0rpius> I have had Asus laptops way better than any Macbook
Jun 20 11:07:32 <kerio> i'm sure you tried many
Jun 20 11:07:54 <Sc0rpius> like the beautiful Asus Zenbook Prime
Jun 20 11:08:02 <Sc0rpius> way thinner than a Macbook
Jun 20 11:08:04 <Sc0rpius> way lighter
Jun 20 11:08:07 <Sc0rpius> way faster
Jun 20 11:08:10 <Sc0rpius> and way cheaper.
Jun 20 11:08:14 <kerio> ...and 13" at most
Jun 20 11:08:17 <kerio> that's a netbook
Jun 20 11:08:22 <kerio> don't be ridiculous
Jun 20 11:08:33 <Sc0rpius> netbook with an i7?
Jun 20 11:08:37 <Sc0rpius> don't think so.
Jun 20 11:09:05 <Sc0rpius> just 1.3 kgs, SSD drive, it's beautiful
Jun 20 11:09:14 <chem|st> kerio: wrong again, the best laptop suits your needs and costs about 600eur, imagine the hardware you get for those 2k you would spend on a powerbook
Jun 20 11:09:51 <Sc0rpius> that's the point
Jun 20 11:09:55 <Sc0rpius> I don't wanna spend 2 grand
Jun 20 11:09:58 <kerio> chem|st: i'm sure i can get a 2880x1800 monitor, 7 hours of battery life on a 600€ laptop
Jun 20 11:12:08 <joga> aren't the new macbooks basically impenetrable blobs of cost-a-lot that can't be fixed in rational ways
Jun 20 11:12:14 <chem|st> kerio: you are nuts!
Jun 20 11:12:42 <kerio> joga: yeah, ifixit called them "the least repairable macbook pro ever"
Jun 20 11:12:45 <chem|st> kerio: what do you need that resolution for on a 13" laptop
Jun 20 11:12:50 <kerio> chem|st: 15
Jun 20 11:12:56 <chem|st> or even 15?
Jun 20 11:13:14 <kerio> idk, to do shit
Jun 20 11:13:27 <chem|st> kerio: you don't know is exactly the right answere
Jun 20 11:13:31 <kerio> indeed
Jun 20 11:13:41 <Sc0rpius> which Macbook is that because the Apple Macbook Pro 15" is just 1366x768
Jun 20 11:13:54 <kerio> otoh, every time i moved to a monitor with a higher resolution, i enjoyed it more
Jun 20 11:13:59 <kerio> Sc0rpius: the "retina" one
Jun 20 11:14:07 <chem|st> selling stuff to people overpriced which the do not need is reflecting a good marketing
Jun 20 11:14:19 <kerio> chem|st: is resolution *bad* now?
Jun 20 11:14:33 <kerio> you're the kind of person to blame for monitor stagnation
Jun 20 11:14:42 <kerio> the most you can get is fucking 1080p now, even for desktop monitors
Jun 20 11:15:13 <kerio> chem|st: why do you need a quadcore? why do you need an ssd?
Jun 20 11:15:22 <Sc0rpius> well at least a hybrid
Jun 20 11:15:32 <Sc0rpius> but I don't think I need more than 1920x1080
Jun 20 11:15:43 <chem|st> kerio: I have a 40" TV on my desk... and would love to have 3840x2160 sure but it is not needed!
Jun 20 11:15:55 <kerio> Sc0rpius: 1920x1200 (on a 17") is beginning to feel a bit cramped here, actually
Jun 20 11:16:05 <chem|st> some like 2400x1400 would be fair enough
Jun 20 11:16:11 <Sc0rpius> I have a 21"
Jun 20 11:16:17 <Sc0rpius> or 22"
Jun 20 11:16:20 <Sc0rpius> I don't use laptops
Jun 20 11:16:25 <Sc0rpius> just desktops and netbooks
Jun 20 11:16:49 <Sc0rpius> I have two monitors in this desktop, the first one with W7 and the second one with Ubuntu in a VM
Jun 20 11:16:55 <chem|st> my netbook could use some mor in Y but it is just a 10" screen...
Jun 20 11:17:01 <Sc0rpius> I can't live without both OS *at the same time*
Jun 20 11:17:25 <Sc0rpius> my netbook has lubuntu which is incredibly fast.
Jun 20 11:17:44 <Sc0rpius> if you have a netbook please format it and install that
Jun 20 11:18:42 <chem|st> Sc0rpius: never ever! have debian from scratch with ion3 on my netbook...
Jun 20 11:19:06 <Sc0rpius> that's too slow
Jun 20 11:19:17 <chem|st> you think
Jun 20 11:19:30 <Sc0rpius> yup, try lubuntu in a flash drive (without touching your OS installed)
Jun 20 11:19:37 <Sc0rpius> and you'll see the difference
Jun 20 11:20:17 <chem|st> I get 5hours of videoplayback out of it and still have 30minutes left reading from the batterymeter
Jun 20 11:20:21 <Sc0rpius> ion3 hasn't been updated since 2009 I think
Jun 20 11:20:31 <Sc0rpius> well that's good
Jun 20 11:20:38 <kerio> i'm using debian with openbox here
Jun 20 11:21:00 <kerio> i'm not convinced i could learn how to use a tiling wm :s
Jun 20 11:21:20 <Sc0rpius> it's for keyboard fans
Jun 20 11:21:26 <Sc0rpius> you don't even need to use the mouse
Jun 20 11:24:43 <chem|st> kerio: quick search gives me a sony vaio for 900eur 15.5" 1920x1080 which is more than enough for that size
Jun 20 11:24:45 <r00t|home> i use a tiling windowmanager and a mouse
Jun 20 11:25:10 <kerio> chem|st: i'm glad that you hold the truth regarding screen sizes and resolutions
Jun 20 11:25:28 <kerio> otoh, *i'm a bit cramped with 1920x1200*
Jun 20 11:25:33 <r00t|home> the correlation between tiling and mouse-usage is only in user personalities... from a usage point of view, both non-tiling WMs can be operated with keyboard and tiling ones with mouse
Jun 20 11:25:35 <kerio> so 1080p is most definetely not enough
Jun 20 11:25:38 <chem|st> r00t|home: no mouse otg... and I dare you telling me to use that 2x4cm touchpad on my netbook...
Jun 20 11:25:59 <chem|st> kerio: for 15"?
Jun 20 11:26:02 <chem|st> it is
Jun 20 11:26:04 <Sc0rpius> I wonder what kind of eyes you have because @ 1920x1080 I have to zoom all the fonts like 2x or 3x their size
Jun 20 11:26:24 <Sc0rpius> or I start having headaches, and yes I wear glasses
Jun 20 11:26:30 <kerio> Sc0rpius: the kind that hasn't been destroyed by old age yet
Jun 20 11:26:34 <Sc0rpius> I see.
Jun 20 11:26:38 <Sc0rpius> so you're younger than 40?
Jun 20 11:26:42 <kerio> yep
Jun 20 11:26:46 <Sc0rpius> that explains it.
Jun 20 11:48:22 <zeq> freemangordon: fennec build failed again because the mozilla configure doesn't use pkg-config for qt, but instead assumes all qt libs and includes are installed at QTDIR.  I'll convert it to use pkg-config when I get home.
Jun 20 11:50:12 <freemangordon> zeq: ok. BTW I still fail to see why did you play wtih qtm11/12 
Jun 20 11:50:28 <freemangordon> what was missing in 1.0.2?
Jun 20 12:04:30 <zeq> freemangordon: it uses a few APIs not present in 1.0. I don't have the details of which particulars to hand though.
Jun 20 12:04:40 <freemangordon> aaah, ok
Jun 20 12:05:46 <freemangordon> zeq, the proper way to use qtm11/12 is to add config += mobility11(12) in .pro file
Jun 20 12:08:50 <Macer> SO 
Jun 20 12:09:03 <Macer> how are you eu members feeling about germany leading a 1T bailout of the EU?
Jun 20 12:09:32 <Macer> they said $1T on the local news.. is it actually 1T euros?
Jun 20 12:09:50 <Macer> germany is probably paying it with cash money
Jun 20 12:34:26 <Raimu> Nah, gold.
Jun 20 12:45:41 <chem|st> Macer: there is only 890Beurs available printed... afair, how would they pash that amount cash?
Jun 20 12:46:30 <merlin1991> chem|st: you ought to shift your hands into some direction on your keyboard, or you didn't have your coffee yet :P
Jun 20 12:46:51 <chem|st> merlin1991: I just recognized...
Jun 20 12:47:29 <chem|st> talking to somewone while looking at him and typing at the same time... does not work well
Jun 20 12:48:22 <chem|st> and coffee is a good point... off to the machine!
Jun 20 12:49:54 <Macer> haha
Jun 20 12:50:09 <Macer> really? only 890B?
Jun 20 12:55:39 <vi_> annoyed.
Jun 20 12:55:49 <vi_> Why is Germany bailing everyone out yet?
Jun 20 12:55:56 <vi_> ^yet/now
Jun 20 12:57:22 <vi_> The only good thing I have seen come out of the EU is the no tax when buying somthing from an EU country, free(ish) movement when moving between member states and the harmonisation of micro USB as a standard phone charger.
Jun 20 12:57:32 <vi_> Fuck all their other retard rules.
Jun 20 12:57:52 <vi_> Anti-tampering motorcycle legislation can fuck off for example.
Jun 20 13:21:08 <chem|st> vi_: the fsck-off situation is that if euro-zone brakes most of the losses have to be paid by germany
Jun 20 13:23:58 <teotwaki> I love the "mandatory ABS" on all new bikes thingie.
Jun 20 13:24:09 <teotwaki> Because manufacturers will be forced to provide it
Jun 20 13:24:15 <teotwaki> They'll do it at lowest possible cost
Jun 20 13:24:35 <teotwaki> What we'll end up with are adventure/dirt bikes that are impossible to use, because the manufacturer didn't provide a way to turn off the ABS when needed.
Jun 20 13:26:38 <freemangordon> WTF? mandatory ABS on bikes? hehe, those guys in EU parlament are crazy.
Jun 20 13:31:59 <vi_> teotwaki: so you hve heard of the dumbass rules to come?
Jun 20 13:32:12 <vi_> mandatory hi-vis.
Jun 20 13:32:17 <teotwaki> yeah
Jun 20 13:32:23 <teotwaki> I don't care.
Jun 20 13:32:35 <vi_> Gonnae look great on my cruiser with wizards airbrushed in the tank.
Jun 20 13:32:43 <vi_> (i dont have a cruiser)
Jun 20 13:33:15 <teotwaki> The same way they've been "forcing" me to add reflective material to my mate helmet.
Jun 20 13:33:32 <vi_> wtf is a mate helmet?
Jun 20 13:33:38 <vi_> Is that a helmet for mating?
Jun 20 13:33:51 <vi_> Are they making you hi-vis your dong, bro?
Jun 20 13:34:24 <merlin1991> wtf abs on a bikes?
Jun 20 13:34:27 <merlin1991> -a
Jun 20 13:34:49 <vi_> merlin1991: MOTORbikes
Jun 20 13:34:57 <merlin1991> vi_: that makes a lot more sense
Jun 20 13:35:06 <merlin1991> on the other hand do we have mandatory abs on cars?
Jun 20 13:35:12 <merlin1991> ie my car doesn't have abs :D
Jun 20 13:35:27 <vi_> Also no modification of anything from the 'powertrain'.
Jun 20 13:35:44 <vi_> That is from the air filter to the sprocket at the back.
Jun 20 13:36:04 <vi_> Imagine the iphone of Mbikes if you will.
Jun 20 13:36:18 <vi_> You can 'own' it as such, but you cannot 'use' it.
Jun 20 13:37:06 <vi_> merlin1991: neither does mine, however my car is about 1 step from being a rolling skip.
Jun 20 13:37:11 <jacekowski> merlin1991: abs on bikes is a lot more usefull thing than on a car
Jun 20 13:37:25 <jacekowski> merlin1991: if your wheel lock on a bike that's it
Jun 20 13:37:33 <jacekowski> locks*
Jun 20 13:37:45 <vi_> jacekowski: have you seen speedway?
Jun 20 13:38:00 <jacekowski> what that has to do with it
Jun 20 13:38:05 <merlin1991> dunno my 106 gets quite some rotation when I make an emergency stop
Jun 20 13:38:46 <merlin1991> 50 to 0 in minumum time has me facing 90° different than before I start breaking
Jun 20 13:39:23 <jacekowski> fix your brakes
Jun 20 13:39:24 <vi_> Well in the UK we have 1 minister who rides a bike and he has allegedly been the voice of reason.  He has been arguing for concessions such as not including the whole ODB2 thing and 'turn-off-able' ABS.
Jun 20 13:39:46 <jacekowski> vi_: well, i don't think it should be mandatory
Jun 20 13:39:48 <vi_> merlin1991: your car sounds as safe as mine.
Jun 20 13:39:56 <jacekowski> but i think abs on a bike is a good thing
Jun 20 13:40:12 <vi_> jacekowski: The OPTION of ABS on a bike can only be seen as good.
Jun 20 13:40:23 <jacekowski> i would rather not have abs on car than on a bike
Jun 20 13:40:47 <jacekowski> on a car you have much higher chance of recovering from locked wheels
Jun 20 13:40:55 <merlin1991> vi_: how old is yours? (mine is 10 years old)
Jun 20 13:41:10 <vi_> pre ODB
Jun 20 13:41:17 <vi_> 14 years
Jun 20 13:41:29 <vi_> only 60000 miles
Jun 20 13:41:37 <vi_> Has a worn ring.
Jun 20 13:41:43 <vi_> Smokes like a 2-stroke bike.
Jun 20 13:42:38 <vi_> But it does have a GNU sticker on the back and that makes it at least 1 more horse power.
Jun 20 13:42:46 <merlin1991> :D
Jun 20 13:43:11 <chem|st> Windsurfen für Einsteiger
Jun 20 13:43:18 <chem|st> oops
Jun 20 13:43:28 <vi_> My bike however is a 1985 XT600.
Jun 20 13:43:41 <vi_> It is a work of beauty.
Jun 20 13:43:56 <vi_> A 2 wheeled tractor if you will.
Jun 20 13:45:06 <chem|st> vi_: I learned riding on one of those
Jun 20 13:45:14 <vi_> !!!
Jun 20 13:45:22 <vi_> They are very popular in Germany.
Jun 20 13:45:42 <vi_> In fact the best XT600 forum on the net is entirely in German :(
Jun 20 13:46:26 <vi_> chem|st: you have one?
Jun 20 13:46:58 <chem|st> a coworker has one and I might have access to the one I started with
Jun 20 13:47:18 <vi_> chem|st: do you know what year it is?
Jun 20 13:47:26 <chem|st> I would buy it but the owner loves to have it
Jun 20 13:47:39 <chem|st> 85 I think
Jun 20 13:47:44 <vi_> !!
Jun 20 13:47:59 <vi_> Same as mine!
Jun 20 13:48:02 <vi_> Yippee.
Jun 20 13:48:21 <chem|st> or 84 I think it was 18 when I started with
Jun 20 13:48:43 <vi_> The XT600-43f.  Apparently the engine is good for 200000 miles if you take care of it.
Jun 20 13:48:54 <vi_> 84 was the first year they made it.
Jun 20 13:49:14 <vi_> The 83 version was the XT600Z tenere.
Jun 20 13:49:36 <chem|st> have no clue about it, I have 2 Ducs
Jun 20 13:49:48 <vi_> chem|st: you have my attention...
Jun 20 13:49:58 <chem|st> vi_: hehe
Jun 20 13:50:11 <chem|st> "what else do you have in the warehouse?"
Jun 20 13:50:35 <freemangordon> jacekowski: the characters that are riding those bikes are not the same type as those that drive the cars ;). Plus removing of the ABS will as simple as cutting the 2 wires from the sensor :)
Jun 20 13:51:21 <vi_> freemangordon: assuming your onboard ECU does not go 'WTF????MY ABS??? SHUTDOWN NOW!'
Jun 20 13:51:30 <freemangordon> naah, no way
Jun 20 13:51:44 <freemangordon> imagine if that happens while you're riding 
Jun 20 13:52:07 <freemangordon> noone will risk that, it is the same now with the cars
Jun 20 13:52:11 <chem|st> vi_: a Triumph SpeedTripple, 2 Ducs Paso 907ie, a BMW100s-sidewagon, a Bimota Tesi2 and a Münch4Mammuth are ready to ride atm
Jun 20 13:52:16 <vi_> freemangordon: yes, the bike goes into emergancy mode and shutsdown.
Jun 20 13:52:28 <freemangordon> shutdown the engine?
Jun 20 13:52:39 <vi_> freemangordon: not immediatley.
Jun 20 13:53:56 <chem|st> vi_: did you get a reply to your mail yet?
Jun 20 13:54:07 <freemangordon> vi_: I refuse to believe the ECU will shut down because of the faulty sensor.
Jun 20 13:54:21 <freemangordon> it might go into a failsafe mode though
Jun 20 13:54:32 <chem|st> freemangordon: hopefully
Jun 20 13:55:07 <freemangordon> and failsafe in terms of ABS and brakes is ... guess what, brakes with no ABS
Jun 20 13:55:25 <vi_> chem|st: No.
Jun 20 13:55:27 <teotwaki> no, failsafe of faulty ABS is lockdown.
Jun 20 13:55:53 <vi_> freemangordon: I think you are optimistic as to what the EU want to inflict on us.
Jun 20 13:56:15 <flux> I was under the impression you can disable ABS from most cars by unplugging a fuse?
Jun 20 13:56:19 <freemangordon> teotwaki: at least that is what happens on the cars, 90 perceon of taxies herein Sofia are with faulty ABS
Jun 20 13:56:37 <teotwaki> flux: some, most now need intervention on the circuitry.
Jun 20 13:56:40 <chem|st> vi_: the next they want me to wear proper helmets... like the italians
Jun 20 13:57:25 <teotwaki> freemangordon: except the ABS sensor on a bike is a lot more prone to breakage -- unless you're on a beemer, those things are not made to take hits.
Jun 20 13:57:41 <vi_> chem|st: ? But you already wear a helmet.
Jun 20 13:57:56 <chem|st> vi_: sure...
Jun 20 13:58:15 <freemangordon> teotwaki: sure thing, but noone can prevent an access to the sensor wiring
Jun 20 13:58:33 <freemangordon> for the enough hard-trying biker
Jun 20 13:58:43 <chem|st> and my helmet is a state of the art italian proof 290eur shoei...
Jun 20 13:58:58 <teotwaki> 290 is cheap
Jun 20 13:58:59 <chem|st> it is my head for god sake!
Jun 20 13:59:10 <chem|st> teotwaki: yeah they are usualy 340eur
Jun 20 13:59:25 <teotwaki> I mean, 300euro price range is cheap for a decent helmet
Jun 20 13:59:31 <teotwaki> 300 gives you mid-range.
Jun 20 13:59:37 <freemangordon> chem|st: wrong, it is EU's head :P
Jun 20 13:59:43 <chem|st> I foundone without design on
Jun 20 13:59:51 <teotwaki> state of the art is 800.
Jun 20 14:00:18 <chem|st> teotwaki: I do not know where you buy helmets but the commonly bet helmets are in a range of 290-390eurs over here...
Jun 20 14:00:33 <teotwaki> yes, and that's mid range :)
Jun 20 14:00:46 <chem|st> put a design on it and they cost 450eur...
Jun 20 14:01:02 <teotwaki> design shouldn't cost you a penny if you purchase it at the right place
Jun 20 14:01:39 <chem|st> teotwaki: then why are you paying 800eurs for a helmet which has technology inside you get for 450?
Jun 20 14:02:10 <teotwaki> this is mine http://www.helmetcity.com/page/HC/PROD/scorpion-fullface-helmets/exo1100-matte-black
Jun 20 14:02:15 <chem|st> the cheap ones over here are like 130eur
Jun 20 14:03:03 <teotwaki> In terms of quality, it's miles away from http://www.helmetcity.com/page/HC/PROD/700-799helmet/araicorsairvblackfrost
Jun 20 14:05:41 <vi_> I want an arai xd3
Jun 20 14:06:02 <vi_> But they cost about 2/3 the value of my bike.
Jun 20 14:07:01 <chem|st> my head shape does not fit arai...
Jun 20 14:07:14 <chem|st> I stick with the RF 1100
Jun 20 14:10:08 <DocScrutinizer51> teotwaki: you're at RIM?
Jun 20 14:10:40 <teotwaki> DocScrutinizer: the idiots who make BlackBerry?
Jun 20 14:10:56 <DocScrutinizer51> I thouhjt so, yes
Jun 20 14:11:05 <teotwaki> No fucking way.
Jun 20 14:11:17 <DocScrutinizer51> mistaken
Jun 20 14:11:53 <DocScrutinizer51> migh've been timeless
Jun 20 14:12:17 <teotwaki> DocScrutinizer: I work at a company called Interact-IV
Jun 20 14:12:34 <DocScrutinizer51> aah SIP etc
Jun 20 14:12:38 <teotwaki> aye
Jun 20 14:12:40 <DocScrutinizer51> iirc
Jun 20 14:16:30 * timeless will look back later
Jun 20 14:17:59 <DocScrutinizer51> timeless: you're at RIM?
Jun 20 14:18:19 * timeless nods
Jun 20 14:18:57 <DocScrutinizer51> HSI?
Jun 20 14:19:26 <DocScrutinizer51> (prolly not)
Jun 20 14:19:54 * DocScrutinizer51 waves
Jun 20 14:19:57 <DocScrutinizer51> bbl
Jun 20 14:44:14 <teotwaki> timeless: I thought you were at Nokia previously?
Jun 20 14:44:19 <timeless> yes
Jun 20 14:44:21 <timeless> for 5 years
Jun 20 14:44:28 <timeless> but i left a bit over a year ago
Jun 20 14:44:31 <teotwaki> I take you like sinking ships :)
Jun 20 14:44:36 <teotwaki> s/take/take it/
Jun 20 14:44:36 <infobot> teotwaki meant: I take it you like sinking ships :)
Jun 20 14:50:28 <Viltzu> Anyone compiled Allegro5 for N900?
Jun 20 14:51:34 <Viltzu> When I try to compile it on N900, and do "make". It goes well until it tries to link lib/liballegro.so
Jun 20 14:52:13 <Viltzu> "make[2]: *** [lib/liballegro.so.5.0.6] Error 1"
Jun 20 14:52:32 <Viltzu> "make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/allegro.dir/all] Error 2"
Jun 20 14:52:42 <Viltzu> That doesn't tell anything... urh.
Jun 20 14:52:56 <Viltzu> And cross compiling seems hard :p
Jun 20 15:19:28 <Viltzu> Hum
Jun 20 15:20:16 <StyXman> Viltzu: check the logs higher up
Jun 20 15:21:18 <Viltzu> There isn't any errors there. Just some assembler messages saying that rm, rdlo or something are different. (can't remember all)
Jun 20 15:21:21 <Viltzu> But not errors.
Jun 20 16:25:19 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop, Raimu : (and whoever is interseted) new version of thumb-cssu is out, with thumb2-compiled xserver and fixed kernel
Jun 20 16:28:11 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: cool.  I had an update available notification this morning but deps seemed to be broken at the time.
Jun 20 16:29:49 <freemangordon> yeah, I am just waaiting merlin1991 to finish his exams so I can kick him in the ass for setting up the repo in such a way that older versions of the packages are deleted when a new version is uploaded :D
Jun 20 16:30:56 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: how is the fennec compilation going on?
Jun 20 16:31:27 <merlin1991> freemangordon: did you add a conflict to the uboot image?
Jun 20 16:32:02 <freemangordon> merlin1991: nope, should I?
Jun 20 16:32:20 <merlin1991> ham claims the update conflicts with it somehow
Jun 20 16:32:21 <freemangordon> conflict with wath, remind me please.
Jun 20 16:32:35 <merlin1991> mp vs uboot kernel image
Jun 20 16:32:37 <freemangordon> merlin1991: u-boot pr-13?
Jun 20 16:32:38 <zeq_laptop> the pkg-config logic is sane afterall, kindof.  It goes through the Qt packages group by group and if any fail instead of erroring out it falls back to looking for the Qt libs/includes in QTDIR, even if it isn't set!
Jun 20 16:33:12 <freemangordon> merlin1991: but it should not conflict with it
Jun 20 16:33:13 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: ah, yes. That's what happened to me this morning.
Jun 20 16:34:03 <merlin1991> freemangordon: nah, the uboot image of the cssu kernel
Jun 20 16:34:07 <freemangordon> merlin1991: after all you could safely boot cssu-kernel-bootimg qith u-boot and have a perfectly stable system
Jun 20 16:34:21 <merlin1991> well nfc
Jun 20 16:34:27 <merlin1991> didn't read the mesage from ham properly
Jun 20 16:34:38 <freemangordon> otherwise you should break mp thing in order to use uboot
Jun 20 16:35:17 <freemangordon> merlin1991: there was a broken dependency, mp (oler version) was looking for kernel-cssu1, but there was kernel-cssu2
Jun 20 16:35:41 <freemangordon> kernel-cssu1 was automatically delete when i upload the new kernel
Jun 20 16:35:59 <freemangordon> *uploaded
Jun 20 16:36:04 <merlin1991> I deinstalled the bootimg package and now the update works
Jun 20 16:36:19 <merlin1991> freemangordon: yeah that's a shortcoming of reprepro
Jun 20 16:36:23 <merlin1991> it only keeps one version
Jun 20 16:36:38 <merlin1991> I found something in the docs that could fix that and applied it to the config, but didn't have time to test it
Jun 20 16:36:58 <freemangordon> aah, so it is not some setting? ok, I am not going to kick you then :P
Jun 20 16:37:26 <freemangordon> well, nevermind, I will be careful now I know what it does
Jun 20 16:37:46 <merlin1991> if that config thingy doesn't fix it I'll look for another tool that does repos and can handle an incoming queue
Jun 20 16:38:05 <merlin1991> but reprepro was quite nice to work with :/
Jun 20 16:38:19 <freemangordon> merlin1991: but it works pretty well, I was just not aware of this "functionality
Jun 20 16:38:37 <freemangordon> don't touch it, it is working fine
Jun 20 16:38:47 <merlin1991> works well as long as I remember to enable the incoming queue after a reboot ;)
Jun 20 16:38:57 <freemangordon> :D
Jun 20 16:39:16 <freemangordon> can't it be automatically enabled?
Jun 20 16:39:29 <freemangordon> via /etc/event.d or something?
Jun 20 16:39:30 <merlin1991> yeah I'd have to write an init script :D
Jun 20 16:39:43 <freemangordon> :)
Jun 20 16:39:48 <merlin1991>  /etc/init.d/ (it's a debian server)
Jun 20 16:40:09 <freemangordon> no /etc/event.d on debian?
Jun 20 16:40:16 <merlin1991> nope
Jun 20 16:40:29 <freemangordon> hmm, why we have it on n900 then ?!?
Jun 20 16:40:37 <merlin1991> because n900 uses upstart
Jun 20 16:41:09 <freemangordon> well, anyway, it is gettting too complicated for me :)
Jun 20 16:41:27 <merlin1991> debian uses sysvinit as init
Jun 20 16:41:30 <merlin1991> mamo uses upstart
Jun 20 16:41:34 <zeq_laptop> as does ubuntu
Jun 20 16:41:36 <freemangordon> ok
Jun 20 16:41:41 <merlin1991> and mr pöttering wants us all to use systemd ;)
Jun 20 16:41:49 <zeq_laptop> I actually like systemd
Jun 20 16:42:02 <freemangordon> mr who?
Jun 20 16:42:08 <merlin1991> ~pöttering
Jun 20 16:42:19 <merlin1991> srly infobot
Jun 20 16:42:32 <freemangordon> won't work, there is some strange symbol in your paste
Jun 20 16:42:36 <ivgalvez> and which version of upstart are we using?
Jun 20 16:42:43 <ivgalvez> I guess too old?
Jun 20 16:42:52 <merlin1991> freemangordon: mr Lennart Poettering
Jun 20 16:42:56 <merlin1991> ~poettering
Jun 20 16:42:56 <infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
Jun 20 16:43:02 <merlin1991> there we go :D
Jun 20 16:43:07 <freemangordon> yeah :D:D:D
Jun 20 16:43:08 <zeq_laptop> LOL
Jun 20 16:43:11 <ivgalvez> author of Pulseaudio as well
Jun 20 16:43:27 <zeq_laptop> Pulseaudio is okay too :P
Jun 20 16:43:36 <ivgalvez> so I won't jump to systemd to fast
Jun 20 16:43:50 <zeq_laptop> systemd is fine, it's just different
Jun 20 16:43:55 <merlin1991> what's the 3rd big thing he did?
Jun 20 16:44:39 <NIN101> avahi
Jun 20 16:44:40 <merlin1991> ah yeah avahi
Jun 20 16:45:07 * freemangordon is wondering what next to include in cssu-thumb
Jun 20 16:45:21 <zeq_laptop> fennec! ;)
Jun 20 16:45:22 <ivgalvez> Python :D
Jun 20 16:45:24 <freemangordon> don't say microb
Jun 20 16:45:44 <freemangordon> ivgalvez: what will be the benefit from having Python thumb-compiled?
Jun 20 16:46:00 <ivgalvez> time to start python apps is extremely long plus memroy consumption
Jun 20 16:46:13 <ivgalvez> there are a few widgets using python as well
Jun 20 16:46:19 <freemangordon> but it is not resident, ain't?
Jun 20 16:46:31 <ivgalvez> if you have a widgets... yes I'm afraid
Jun 20 16:46:53 <freemangordon> aah, widgets. hmm, who the hell wants python widgets on his desktop?
Jun 20 16:46:54 <zeq_laptop> not sure how much difference it would make to python
Jun 20 16:47:13 <freemangordon> ivgalvez: I was asking for some core compunent
Jun 20 16:47:20 <freemangordon> *component
Jun 20 16:47:31 <ivgalvez> well it's not really critcal
Jun 20 16:47:48 <freemangordon> the one that everyone will benefit from being with reduced code size
Jun 20 16:48:07 <freemangordon> some system library or so. bluetoothd?
Jun 20 16:48:18 <freemangordon> or something like that
Jun 20 16:48:25 <zeq_laptop> that's a possiblity
Jun 20 16:49:42 <freemangordon> well, I rephrase then. Which is the biggest memory hog (excluding browserd and things that are already in the repo) according to your knowledge?
Jun 20 16:49:59 <kerio> tracker, maybe?
Jun 20 16:50:00 <freemangordon> aah, yes, libcurl3
Jun 20 16:50:16 <freemangordon> kerio: hmm, that is a good idea, let me check the code size
Jun 20 16:52:47 <ivgalvez> if you use batery-eye (very common I think) you will also see python running
Jun 20 16:53:54 <freemangordon> ivgalvez: no way to install any python stuff in my status menu.
Jun 20 16:53:59 <freemangordon> :)
Jun 20 16:56:11 <freemangordon> hmm, openssl and libcurl3 are my favorites, though I have to wait for a newer libcurl3 in CSSU-T
Jun 20 16:57:20 <zeq_laptop> probably worth looking a the difference in size with python
Jun 20 16:57:46 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: absolute difference?
Jun 20 16:58:10 <freemangordon> as I doubt it is all executable code
Jun 20 16:58:46 <zeq_laptop> obviously :)
Jun 20 17:00:28 <zeq_laptop> objdump gives a full breakdown
Jun 20 17:03:32 <DocScrutinizer51> battery-eye been  notorious to kill battery ;)
Jun 20 17:03:43 <DocScrutinizer51> IOW the eye is a hog
Jun 20 17:03:49 <freemangordon> hmm, pulseaudio modules are about 1200 KiB
Jun 20 17:04:03 <freemangordon> not sure all of them are FOSS
Jun 20 17:04:06 <ivgalvez> mine stays up to 4 days and 13 hours with Battery eye, I can live with that
Jun 20 17:04:06 <hiemanshu> some should rebuild Maemo with linaro tool chain
Jun 20 17:04:09 <hiemanshu> someone*
Jun 20 17:04:28 <freemangordon> hiemanshu: which gcc is that?
Jun 20 17:04:35 <ivgalvez> 4.7.1
Jun 20 17:04:39 <hiemanshu> there is 4.6 and 4.7 too
Jun 20 17:04:57 <ivgalvez> 4.7.1 is supposed to boost performance of Android on ARM
Jun 20 17:05:06 <hiemanshu> 4.6 does too
Jun 20 17:05:15 <freemangordon> is it much better than 4.6.2?
Jun 20 17:05:21 <hiemanshu> and its not android limited
Jun 20 17:05:33 <hiemanshu> its boosts performance of all ARM related stuff
Jun 20 17:05:35 <freemangordon> as that is what I am using for thumb thingie
Jun 20 17:06:56 <ivgalvez> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/06/android-performance-boosted-30-100-percent-by-linaro-toolchain/
Jun 20 17:07:16 <hiemanshu> ivgalvez: yes, but its not limited to android
Jun 20 17:07:29 <ivgalvez> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_1210_arm1&num=1
Jun 20 17:07:33 <ivgalvez> of course
Jun 20 17:07:39 <ivgalvez> Ubuntu too
Jun 20 17:09:30 <freemangordon> ivgalvez: but it says the performance is boosted compared to google toolchain, I was asking if there is much of a difference compared to gcc 4.6.2
Jun 20 17:10:29 <ivgalvez> apparently the benefits to Ubuntu 12.10 are also important, anyhow dunno if that would be noticeable on the N900
Jun 20 17:16:34 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: we should probably use linaro
Jun 20 17:17:02 <zeq_laptop> they do try extra hard to fix ARM issues
Jun 20 17:17:30 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: I am all for this, just tell me when to download the toolchain from :P
Jun 20 17:17:39 <hiemanshu> freemangordon: google :P
Jun 20 17:17:51 <freemangordon> (the one that runs in SB :P )
Jun 20 17:18:20 <zeq_laptop> there are instructions on the sb site to import new toolchains
Jun 20 17:18:20 <freemangordon> hiemanshu: ^^^
Jun 20 17:18:44 <freemangordon> yeah, but we need the ehole toolchain statically linked
Jun 20 17:18:55 <zeq_laptop> I would be surprised if someone hasn't already done it
Jun 20 17:18:56 <hiemanshu> freemangordon: well you'll have to do some manual stuff
Jun 20 17:19:30 <freemangordon> hiemanshu: tell me about it, I compiled gcc 4.6.2 for SB ;)
Jun 20 17:19:51 <zeq_laptop> building gcc without "--enable-shared" isn't a bit deal
Jun 20 17:20:00 <zeq_laptop> s/bit/big/
Jun 20 17:20:02 <infobot> zeq_laptop meant: building gcc without "--enable-shared" isn't a big deal
Jun 20 17:20:13 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: excluding that that option does not work
Jun 20 17:20:18 <zeq_laptop> I should say with --disable-shared
Jun 20 17:20:24 <freemangordon> at least for 4.6.2
Jun 20 17:20:53 <zeq_laptop> I've built a static toolchain recently when I was bootstrapping x32 on Gentoo
Jun 20 17:24:12 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: does not work, I had to do some trickery, i.e. configure it with --enable-shared, and after that make -j4 LDFLAGS="-static -L/scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/lib/"
Jun 20 17:24:44 <zeq_laptop> strange
Jun 20 17:24:50 <freemangordon> or make -j4 LDFLAGS="-all-static", can't remember
Jun 20 17:25:27 <zeq_laptop> I think i built 4.6 and 4.7 ... maybe it was only  4.7 I built static
Jun 20 17:25:31 <freemangordon> that is the source from gcc mirrors, didn't try some debianized package
Jun 20 17:25:34 <Viltzu> Does anyone know what I should try when compiling allegro5?
Jun 20 17:25:43 <freemangordon> make?
Jun 20 17:25:49 <Viltzu> "Linking C shared library lib/liballegro.so"
Jun 20 17:25:52 <Viltzu> And then error.
Jun 20 17:25:53 <freemangordon> dpkg-buildpackage
Jun 20 17:26:11 <Viltzu> I'm talking about the error when I do make :)
Jun 20 17:26:16 <freemangordon> :)
Jun 20 17:26:21 <freemangordon> and the error is?
Jun 20 17:26:27 <Viltzu> make just doesn't give anyinformation of the error really.
Jun 20 17:26:34 <Viltzu> Not even what the error exactly is
Jun 20 17:26:41 <Viltzu> Linking C shared library lib/liballegro.so
Jun 20 17:26:41 <Viltzu> make[2]: *** [lib/liballegro.so.5.0.6] Error 1
Jun 20 17:26:41 <Viltzu> make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/allegro.dir/all] Error 2
Jun 20 17:26:41 <Viltzu> make: *** [all] Error 2
Jun 20 17:27:54 <Viltzu> And I'm positive there really isn't anywhere else about errors
Jun 20 17:27:59 <zeq_laptop> another fennec stupidity
Jun 20 17:28:08 <freemangordon> Viltzu: no way there is no error from gcc
Jun 20 17:28:31 <zeq_laptop> nsWindow.cpp:77:40: fatal error: QtSensors/QOrientationSensor
Jun 20 17:28:53 <zeq_laptop> yet the CFLAGS contain:  -I/opt/qtm12/include/QtSensors
Jun 20 17:29:11 <zeq_laptop> duh!
Jun 20 17:29:32 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: make it QOrientationSensor only, remove QtSensors/ prefix :P
Jun 20 17:29:56 <zeq_laptop> I was hoping to avoid patching
Jun 20 17:30:03 <Viltzu> freemangordon, does it log somewhere or should it be printed on the screen when doing make? Because those 4 lines are all what it prints when I do make (Well, when it now tries to continue where it stopped. It does "Building C object" to 78% and then that)
Jun 20 17:30:45 <freemangordon> Viltzu: check if your configure scripts are not invoked eith some "--silent" option
Jun 20 17:30:58 <freemangordon> *with
Jun 20 17:31:09 * freemangordon is afk fro a while
Jun 20 17:32:10 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: you could try ti -I/opt/qtm12/include
Jun 20 17:32:13 <freemangordon> *to
Jun 20 17:32:40 <freemangordon> and add that path to -dev pkgconfig
Jun 20 17:33:07 <Viltzu> as far as I know there is not applied any silent options.
Jun 20 17:47:40 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: that's even more hacky than patching it though I guess
Jun 20 17:48:06 <zeq_laptop> especially since the other qt headers aren't prefixed
Jun 20 17:48:51 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: is that source file maemo5 specific?
Jun 20 17:49:14 <zeq_laptop> no, it's qt-mobility specific
Jun 20 17:49:44 <zeq_laptop> which is probably only used on maemo5/6
Jun 20 17:50:11 <freemangordon> hmm, strange. BTW why you include stuff from /opt and not /usr/include/qt4?
Jun 20 17:50:24 <zeq_laptop> the opt stuff is from libqtm12
Jun 20 17:50:36 <zeq_laptop> that is where it gets installed
Jun 20 17:50:37 <freemangordon> but headers should be in /usr/...
Jun 20 17:50:44 <zeq_laptop> the locations are picked up though pkg-config
Jun 20 17:50:47 <zeq_laptop> as they should be
Jun 20 17:51:18 <freemangordon> I know, seems -dev package does stupd things, headers should not be optified AFAIK
Jun 20 17:51:41 <zeq_laptop> There's no rule that I'm aware of
Jun 20 17:51:57 <zeq_laptop> certainly not generally, maybe a maemo thing?
Jun 20 17:52:30 <zeq_laptop> the whole point of pkg-config was to allow packages to be installed in non-standard locations and still work
Jun 20 17:55:23 <zeq_laptop> it's just a mozilla bug.  probably only been used on maemo6/harmattan, and there the headers were in the right place
Jun 20 17:56:20 <zeq_laptop> s/right/assumed/
Jun 20 17:56:23 <infobot> zeq_laptop meant: it's just a mozilla bug.  probably only been used on maemo6/harmattan, and there the headers were in the assumed place
Jun 20 18:04:26 <Viltzu> So any ideas? I have not silented errors or anything.
Jun 20 18:04:57 <zeq_laptop> Viltzu: there must be a way of makeing the build output verbose
Jun 20 18:05:16 <zeq_laptop> some packages you can use V=99
Jun 20 18:26:13 <Viltzu> I gave --debug=all to make and it says it is reaping winning child and also reaping losin child and such.
Jun 20 18:26:17 <Viltzu> http://pastebin.com/hMyCFW8E
Jun 20 18:26:33 <Viltzu> Does that tell anything? 
Jun 20 18:32:37 <zeq_laptop> try make VERBOSE=ON
Jun 20 18:39:32 <Viltzu> I wonder. Maybe I should update gcc and g++ to 4.6 from 4.2?
Jun 20 18:39:33 <Viltzu> :>
Jun 20 18:44:07 <zeq_laptop> Viltzu: did you try "make VERBOSE=ON" ?
Jun 20 18:44:15 <Viltzu> Not yet.
Jun 20 18:47:20 <Viltzu> Humm
Jun 20 18:47:42 <Viltzu> How did I create symlink so that gcc would call gcc-4.6
Jun 20 18:47:46 <Viltzu> ln something
Jun 20 18:49:20 <zeq_laptop> Viltzu: what are you trying to do? I suggest if you want to try gcc-4.6, you use the one we're using for thumb
Jun 20 18:50:06 <zeq_laptop> but first you really should try "make VERBOSE=ON", it should work to tell you what's wrong I think
Jun 20 18:52:27 <Viltzu> I just mean that now if I do "gcc" it will use the 4.2 version. But nothing anymore. removed the old one and then ln /usr/bin/gcc-4.6 gcc
Jun 20 18:52:32 <Viltzu> I will try that now.
Jun 20 18:53:45 <Viltzu> Hmm
Jun 20 18:53:47 <Viltzu> /usr/bin/ld: this linker was not configured to use sysroots
Jun 20 18:53:47 <Viltzu> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
Jun 20 18:54:31 <Viltzu> wait. Did I just braek it 
Jun 20 18:54:59 <Viltzu> Because it says that also without VERBOSE=ON and it didn't before :p
Jun 20 18:57:27 <zeq_laptop> yes, you've broken it :P
Jun 20 18:58:05 <zeq_laptop> you broke your scratchbox target
Jun 20 18:58:37 <Viltzu> I wonder what I should do? ;P
Jun 20 19:09:03 <ZogG_latop> zeq_laptop: oh, i finally found my brother
Jun 20 19:23:49 <zeq_laptop> ZogG_latop: where did you lose your "p"?
Jun 20 19:24:57 <Viltzu> Okay back to 4.2 because symlinking doesn't work umm.
Jun 20 19:25:39 <zeq_laptop> Viltzu: scratchbox toolchains go in /scratchbox/compiler
Jun 20 19:25:59 <zeq_laptop> s/compiler/compilers/
Jun 20 19:26:00 <infobot> zeq_laptop meant: Viltzu: scratchbox toolchains go in /scratchbox/compilers
Jun 20 19:26:48 <Viltzu> Okay... Doesn't say anything what I should do. :>
Jun 20 19:27:15 <zeq_laptop> I'm going to write a howto soon
Jun 20 19:27:32 <Viltzu> But I just now compile this thing again (yes, I tried to do with the 4.6 from the start and meh)
Jun 20 19:27:41 <Viltzu> This will take about an our.
Jun 20 19:27:53 <Viltzu> I wonder why it takes so long. On N9 it doesn't.
Jun 20 19:28:11 <Viltzu> Maybe memory is getting low (5MB free RAM when compiling) ?
Jun 20 19:28:18 <zeq_laptop> oh, you're compiling native?
Jun 20 19:28:31 <Viltzu> Hmm... yes on N900.
Jun 20 19:28:37 <zeq_laptop> eek
Jun 20 19:28:55 <Viltzu> Cross-compiling seemed complicated when allegro needs all these different libraries erhm.
Jun 20 19:29:14 <freemangordon> WTF?
Jun 20 19:29:21 <ZogG_latop> zeq_laptop: 1993 summer, late august, i remember her as i see her now in front of me ...
Jun 20 19:29:24 <Viltzu> But it would be nice to cross compile. This is taking forever to compile on N900 ;D
Jun 20 19:29:56 <zeq_laptop> Viltzu: I strongly recommend you don't do that
Jun 20 19:30:02 <zeq_laptop> native I mean
Jun 20 19:30:09 <Viltzu> WhY?
Jun 20 19:30:32 <zeq_laptop> well for a start it's slow
Jun 20 19:30:48 <Viltzu> Yes I have noticed.
Jun 20 19:31:03 <Viltzu> And?
Jun 20 19:31:47 <zeq_laptop> you'll wear out your device, you probably don't have all the *-dev packages, lack of memory
Jun 20 19:32:33 <zeq_laptop> Viltzu: scratchbox isn't hard to set up
Jun 20 19:33:53 <Viltzu> Okay hmm
Jun 20 19:43:14 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: fennec is linking...
Jun 20 19:44:32 <Viltzu> The problem was I didn't really know about this scratchbox thing :P
Jun 20 19:45:06 <zeq_laptop> yep
Jun 20 19:47:45 <freemangordon> Viltzu: it is really easy, nokia has a VmWare image on SDK site with everything preinstalled
Jun 20 19:48:09 <freemangordon> (not sure what the address was, but google is your friend)
Jun 20 19:48:30 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: still linking?
Jun 20 19:48:55 <zeq_laptop> building chrome
Jun 20 19:49:11 <freemangordon> libxul built?
Jun 20 19:49:15 <zeq_laptop> yep
Jun 20 19:49:22 <freemangordon> hooooraaay
Jun 20 19:49:24 <freemangordon> :D
Jun 20 19:49:32 <zeq_laptop> done
Jun 20 19:49:34 <Viltzu> found it.
Jun 20 19:49:49 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: gimme, gimme, gimme ...
Jun 20 19:49:50 <zeq_laptop> except not a packagebuild
Jun 20 19:49:56 <freemangordon> :(
Jun 20 19:50:03 <freemangordon> why is that?
Jun 20 19:50:27 <zeq_laptop> because I could fix problems and type make in obj-build
Jun 20 19:50:44 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: I am sure you know it, but just in case: you can comment the unpacking step in debian/rules and build with -nc
Jun 20 19:50:46 <zeq_laptop> but the debian/rules wipes everything with "build"
Jun 20 19:51:13 <zeq_laptop> execpt the silly debain/rules for this package
Jun 20 19:51:30 <freemangordon> but it works, i've tried it yesterday
Jun 20 19:51:31 <zeq_laptop> s/execpt/except/
Jun 20 19:51:31 <infobot> zeq_laptop meant: except the silly debain/rules for this package
Jun 20 19:51:43 <freemangordon> (commenting tar -xz)
Jun 20 19:51:49 <zeq_laptop> it did?
Jun 20 19:51:54 <freemangordon> yep
Jun 20 19:51:56 <zeq_laptop> oh well never mind
Jun 20 19:51:58 <zeq_laptop> :)
Jun 20 19:52:11 <freemangordon> just put # in front of it :P
Jun 20 19:52:28 <zeq_laptop> well, yes hacking it would work
Jun 20 19:53:12 <freemangordon> yeah, lets see it working, I promise I will fix debian/rules if everything is ok otherwise
Jun 20 19:53:28 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: I can make the patches available to you
Jun 20 19:53:34 <freemangordon> ie, fennec does not put n900 on its knees
Jun 20 19:53:36 <zeq_laptop> you can build faster than I can
Jun 20 19:54:11 <freemangordon> but you have it already build, just hack debian/rules and rebuild with -nc
Jun 20 19:54:25 <freemangordon> that will be faster
Jun 20 19:54:32 <zeq_laptop> ah, good idea 8-)
Jun 20 19:56:18 * freemangordon think if it is a good idea to upload that on gitorious, if fennec works ok
Jun 20 19:58:41 <zeq_laptop> in cssu-thumb you mean?
Jun 20 20:01:25 <peterbjornx> does anyone here have experience with thr n900 fm tx
Jun 20 20:01:30 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: I don't know how long this will take...
Jun 20 20:01:39 <freemangordon> no, cssu-thumb is the debian repo ;). And most of things there are branches of CSSU 
Jun 20 20:01:53 <peterbjornx> mine stopped working, no errors but no transmission either
Jun 20 20:02:02 <freemangordon> I have an account on gitorious and can create projects in my repo there
Jun 20 20:02:11 <zeq_laptop> ah ok
Jun 20 20:02:39 <zeq_laptop> if it works well, it could be quite popular
Jun 20 20:03:04 <freemangordon> that way it will be very easy to apply patches for whoever is interested (assuming he has a gitorious account)
Jun 20 20:04:04 <zeq_laptop> apparently packaging fennec takes a while ;)
Jun 20 20:04:46 <freemangordon> well , if it does its job...
Jun 20 20:04:50 <zeq_laptop> it's becaues it's using ARM compiled tools
Jun 20 20:05:03 <zeq_laptop> because*
Jun 20 20:05:03 <freemangordon> oh
Jun 20 20:05:18 <zeq_laptop> ah progressing
Jun 20 20:05:32 <freemangordon> arm qemu on coreduo :(
Jun 20 20:05:42 <zeq_laptop> emulated arm is a bit slower than native x86_64 :)
Jun 20 20:06:43 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: don't forget to maemo-optify once it is ready (if there is no optification in debian/rules)
Jun 20 20:06:53 <freemangordon> though I think there is
Jun 20 20:07:57 <zeq_laptop> it's installed into /opt in the mozconfig
Jun 20 20:08:04 <freemangordon> great
Jun 20 20:09:32 <chem|st> yeah
Jun 20 20:09:33 <ZogG_laptop> freemangordon: congrats, now i wait for harmattan CSSU =P
Jun 20 20:09:39 <chem|st> Woody14619: what happened?
Jun 20 20:09:59 <ZogG_laptop> Woody14619: oh you are here, i'm the one we talked about OBS i'm here too =P
Jun 20 20:10:51 <zeq_laptop> my power cable had fallen out
Jun 20 20:11:02 <Woody14619> chem|st: What happened about what?  :)  So much going on lately, I'm not sure which thing you're talking about. :P
Jun 20 20:11:09 <freemangordon> ZogG_laptop: thanks. harm CSSU? but there is PR1.3 on the horizon :P
Jun 20 20:11:10 <chem|st> Woody14619: CA
Jun 20 20:11:42 <Woody14619> Uhmm.. CA was decided? I'm not sure what you're asking? :)
Jun 20 20:12:02 <Woody14619> If you're asking why I didn't get a device?  Because I didn't apply.
Jun 20 20:12:23 <ZogG_laptop> freemangordon: i think in Nokia right now they went to ancient roots and wors is not round anymore so the horizont is the end of the world, good luck waiting for it =)
Jun 20 20:12:36 <trumee> does N900 support hls video playback ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming
Jun 20 20:12:56 <ZogG_laptop> Woody14619: you should re=phrase the question
Jun 20 20:12:58 <Woody14619> I felt it was both a conflict of interest, and that others had more/better community support and development than I've made.
Jun 20 20:13:06 <ZogG_laptop> Woody14619: why only you didn't get the device =)
Jun 20 20:13:06 <chem|st> Woody14619: were all councelors there? or was it estel and someone else again?
Jun 20 20:13:18 <chem|st> ZogG_laptop: he din't apply!
Jun 20 20:13:29 <ZogG_laptop> that's what i'm saying
Jun 20 20:13:42 <Woody14619> No, it was all councelors.... over a gruelying 4 hours meeting... :P
Jun 20 20:13:43 <ZogG_laptop> why only him didn't apply =)
Jun 20 20:13:44 <chem|st> misunderstood
Jun 20 20:13:55 <trumee> There seem to be iOS/android players coming up to play mythtv 0.25 streams. Wondering if there is any video player which can do that on N900.
Jun 20 20:14:25 <freemangordon> trumee: did you try to open it from microb?
Jun 20 20:14:30 <Woody14619> ZogG_laptop: I gave my reasons for not applying. :)
Jun 20 20:14:53 <trumee> freemangordon: what do you mean?
Jun 20 20:15:27 <ZogG_laptop> Woody14619: i think the reason was different
Jun 20 20:15:27 <Woody14619> .oO(And while I may or may not want to share more on that, I will refrain from doing so, reguardless of proding...)
Jun 20 20:15:33 <trumee> freemangordon: i have mythtv 0.25 here, but dont know how to access hls stream
Jun 20 20:15:43 <freemangordon> trumee: find such a stream and try to open it within microb
Jun 20 20:15:54 <trumee> freemangordon: ah, ok.
Jun 20 20:16:19 <Woody14619> ZogG_laptop: you may think what you please, but I can tell you, that was my reasoning.
Jun 20 20:16:20 <ZogG_laptop> Woody14619: if you was thinking like that you would apply anyway as you just wouldn;t get device, on other hand if you know that you'll get device for sure so you don't apply — something is wrong here
Jun 20 20:16:24 <freemangordon> if it is supported i suspect mediaplayer will kick in
Jun 20 20:16:33 <freemangordon> trumee: ^^^
Jun 20 20:17:06 <ZogG_laptop> Woody14619: i actually complimenting you man =)
Jun 20 20:17:36 <trumee> freemangordon: http://devimages.apple.com/iphone/samples/bipbop/gear1/prog_index.m3u8 , firefox on PC says loading. going to try on N900
Jun 20 20:17:50 <chem|st> vi_: merlin1991 freemangordon I hope you do not abandone your n900s now...
Jun 20 20:18:02 <Woody14619> ZogG_laptop: Again, I found it to be a conflict of interest to be both an applicant and a judge, and therefore resolved that by not being an applicant.
Jun 20 20:18:13 * Woody14619 shares chem|st's concerns... :)
Jun 20 20:18:27 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon:  fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch
Jun 20 20:18:27 <zeq_laptop> make: *** No rule to make target `binary-arch'.  Stop.
Jun 20 20:18:37 <zeq_laptop> ?
Jun 20 20:18:43 <ZogG_laptop> Woody14619: that's my point and that's why i told you that i think you did it right
Jun 20 20:18:51 * Woody14619 nods...
Jun 20 20:18:53 <ZogG_laptop> zeq_laptop: i found my p
Jun 20 20:19:07 <zeq_laptop> ZogG_laptop: congrats! :)
Jun 20 20:20:02 <trumee> freemangordon: microb opens video player which return "unable to find media file" :(
Jun 20 20:20:39 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: WTF? do a simple dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -nc
Jun 20 20:20:53 <freemangordon> trumee: I suppose your question got answered :P
Jun 20 20:21:44 <trumee> FF
Jun 20 20:21:46 <freemangordon> actually it seems it is half supported :D
Jun 20 20:22:20 <trumee> freemangordon: FF doesnt play these on PC either (https://developer.apple.com/resources/http-streaming/examples/)
Jun 20 20:22:33 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: trying again
Jun 20 20:22:34 <freemangordon> i.e. microb recognises it as a media, but maybe there is no gstreamer element installed on your n900 who can handle it
Jun 20 20:22:55 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: full compilation?
Jun 20 20:23:36 <zeq_laptop> no just the binary packaging
Jun 20 20:23:40 <freemangordon> aah, ok
Jun 20 20:33:59 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: typo in rules
Jun 20 20:34:59 <freemangordon> nice :)
Jun 20 20:35:02 <zeq_laptop> wrong obj-build directory name
Jun 20 20:35:10 <zeq_laptop> oops
Jun 20 20:35:16 <zeq_laptop> trying again
Jun 20 20:36:53 <Viltzu> /usr/bin/cmake -E cmake_symlink_library lib/liballegro.so.5.0.6 lib/liballegro.so.5.0 lib/liballegro.so
Jun 20 20:36:56 <Viltzu> make[2]: *** [lib/liballegro.so.5.0.6] Error 1
Jun 20 20:36:57 <Viltzu> When usin -
Jun 20 20:37:00 <Viltzu> make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/user/MyDocs/allegro-5.0/build'
Jun 20 20:37:08 <Viltzu> VERBOSE=ON it says that before the error
Jun 20 20:37:32 <Viltzu> But I'm downloading the scratchbox ready image thing.
Jun 20 20:46:56 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: seems to be working this time: Linking .xpt files...
Jun 20 20:55:22 <freemangordon> good
Jun 20 20:58:16 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: WTF? http://pastebin.com/e8hvXzFV
Jun 20 20:59:41 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: NFC, never seen such think
Jun 20 20:59:45 <freemangordon> *thing
Jun 20 21:01:52 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: what's your fakeroot version, maybe I have the wrong one somehow?
Jun 20 21:02:07 <zeq_laptop> fakeroot --version
Jun 20 21:02:07 <zeq_laptop> fakeroot version 1.14.4 (scratchbox)
Jun 20 21:03:05 <zeq_laptop> I installed it from the gcc-4.6/thumb compiler packages
Jun 20 21:05:48 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: I'm tying "make deb" directly in the build dir
Jun 20 21:08:21 <zeq_laptop> from debian wiki: Error Messages
Jun 20 21:08:21 <zeq_laptop> fakeroot: nested operation not yet supported
Jun 20 21:08:25 <zeq_laptop> This error occurs if an attempt is made to run fakeroot from within a fakeroot environment. The error may occur during an attempt to build project code from within a fakeroot environment and has been observed to occur when project builder tools are being used (such as debuild). 
Jun 20 21:10:34 <zeq_laptop> how did this ever work? I suppose the package is normally built without -rfakeroot
Jun 20 21:12:27 <zeq_laptop> Is there a standard method to support packaging projects with a deb make target?
Jun 20 21:13:29 <Viltzu> Now that Maemo SDK Virtual Image is up in virtualbox. :)
Jun 20 21:15:25 <zeq_laptop> okay, that worked
Jun 20 21:20:10 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: http://http://www.snewbury.org.uk/fennec_14.0b7+maemo0-thumb0_armel.deb
Jun 20 21:20:18 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: http://www.snewbury.org.uk/fennec_14.0b7+maemo0-thumb0_armel.deb
Jun 20 21:22:43 <zeq_laptop> no idea if it works though ;)
Jun 20 21:30:24 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: you are the men, downloading...
Jun 20 21:41:01 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: the shit works, you need newer libgcc_s.so.1 (the one that comes with the compiler, strip it), and export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/fennec-14.0:/opt/qtm12/lib
Jun 20 21:41:31 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: the screen orientation is incorrect though, might be a bug in libqtm
Jun 20 21:46:51 <zeq_laptop> it could be the qtm version
Jun 20 21:47:25 <zeq_laptop> I had to fix a few things to get it to build so I don't know how the version in the repos was built
Jun 20 21:47:26 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: what I have here is the one from the repos
Jun 20 21:47:36 <freemangordon> yeah
Jun 20 21:47:49 <freemangordon> but it is rotated 90 deg
Jun 20 21:47:57 <zeq_laptop> I can put my libqtm on my server
Jun 20 21:48:03 <freemangordon> veryy funny :D, but otherwise it is working
Jun 20 21:48:51 <zeq_laptop> I haven't got it working here yet though due to the fact fennec7 wouldn't remove cleanly, now the new version won't either?!?
Jun 20 21:48:56 <zeq_laptop> ah well
Jun 20 21:49:35 <freemangordon> wouldn't remove? why is that?
Jun 20 21:49:46 <freemangordon> BTW was it sunspider.com?
Jun 20 21:49:53 <freemangordon> the benchmark site
Jun 20 21:50:22 <Viltzu> Now, how I'm supposed to cross-compile allegro with this scratchbox thing? 
Jun 20 21:50:43 <Viltzu> Normally to compile it its just cmake and then make :P
Jun 20 21:51:16 <zeq_laptop> pre-removal script returned error
Jun 20 21:51:44 <zeq_laptop> libqtm-12-dbg_1.2.0+git20111104-0nd~fremantle6_armel.deb
Jun 20 21:51:54 <zeq_laptop> libqtm-12-dev_1.2.0+git20111104-0nd~fremantle6_armel.deb
Jun 20 21:52:01 <zeq_laptop> libqtm-12_1.2.0+git20111104-0nd~fremantle6_armel.deb
Jun 20 21:52:26 <zeq_laptop> same place as fennec deb
Jun 20 21:53:01 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: I need to get to bed now, gf complaining ;)
Jun 20 21:53:12 <zeq_laptop> night all
Jun 20 21:53:19 <freemangordon> night :)
Jun 20 22:01:20 <freemangordon> sunspider result for fennec-14b7 : 5670.5 ms ( device OC to 805 MHz)
Jun 20 22:15:55 <Estel_> :) I think it's quite happy day, for many
Jun 20 22:16:45 <Viltzu> ls
Jun 20 22:16:47 <Viltzu> ops
Jun 20 22:17:02 <Estel_> Congratulations for all CA winners!
Jun 20 22:17:16 <freemangordon> Estel_: 10x
Jun 20 22:17:19 <jacekowski> CA?
Jun 20 22:17:22 <jacekowski> ahm
Jun 20 22:17:24 <Viltzu> Okay I have compiled allegro in scratchbox. Now what :u
Jun 20 22:17:27 <Estel_> :)
Jun 20 22:17:27 <freemangordon> community awards
Jun 20 22:17:42 <freemangordon> Viltzu: run it :P
Jun 20 22:17:56 <Estel_> allegro ma non tropo?
Jun 20 22:18:02 <freemangordon> (whatever allegro is)
Jun 20 22:18:15 <Estel_> http://allegro.pl, probably
Jun 20 22:18:18 <Estel_> or not
Jun 20 22:18:51 <Viltzu> http://allegro.cc/
Jun 20 22:19:13 <Viltzu> And this is.. umm humm..
Jun 20 22:19:25 <Estel_> looks like lua error, to me
Jun 20 22:22:06 <Viltzu> When I try to run some demos or examples that came with allegro it says
Jun 20 22:22:08 <Viltzu> svn co https://alleg.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/alleg/allegro/branches/5.0 allegro-5.0
Jun 20 22:22:11 <Viltzu> asd.
Jun 20 22:22:16 <Viltzu> not that
Jun 20 22:22:38 <Viltzu> "X11TransSocketINETConnect() can't get address for localhost:6002: Name or service not known"
Jun 20 22:22:53 <Viltzu> When target it arm. when x86 that doesn't come
Jun 20 22:23:08 <Viltzu> But I wonder, how I'm supposed to get this to my n900 then?
Jun 20 22:23:58 <freemangordon> Viltzu: do make install --targed-dir (whatever you want it placed) most probably /opt/allegro
Jun 20 22:24:21 <Viltzu> mm.... In scratchbox?
Jun 20 22:24:24 <freemangordon> not sure though it is exactly --target-dir, so google a bit
Jun 20 22:24:51 <freemangordon> could be INSTALL_DIR variable
Jun 20 22:24:59 <freemangordon> yep in SB
Jun 20 22:25:18 <freemangordon> that will copy all the necesarry file into that dir
Jun 20 22:25:25 <freemangordon> then copy that on your n900
Jun 20 22:26:51 <freemangordon> Viltzu: make DESTDIR=<your_prefix> install
Jun 20 22:28:45 <Viltzu> And where I copy this on my N900?
Jun 20 22:28:52 <Viltzu> Just somewhere or somewhere spefic?
Jun 20 22:29:45 <freemangordon> the same place you set your DESTDIR to be
Jun 20 22:30:03 <freemangordon> use DESTDIR=/opt/allegro
Jun 20 22:30:10 <Viltzu> oh okay.
Jun 20 22:30:30 <freemangordon> the copy /opt/allegro to n900 under /opt/allegro :)
Jun 20 22:30:40 <freemangordon> *then
Jun 20 22:30:58 <Viltzu> ok
Jun 20 22:32:39 <freemangordon> ok, sunspider benchmark final results: fennec - 5670.5 ms, microb 24566 ms (device OC to 805 for both benchmarks) , my desktop-820 ms (AMD Phenom II 3.2 GHz)
Jun 20 22:32:58 <freemangordon> damn, fennec jscript is FAST
Jun 20 22:33:29 <nox-> does fennec still `eat ram like candy'?
Jun 20 22:33:37 <cehteh> but the rest is dead slow  and its a memory hog
Jun 20 22:33:39 <freemangordon> lemme check
Jun 20 22:33:59 <cehteh> if i want to do fast computing i use C not javascript :P
Jun 20 22:34:25 <cehteh> for websites i'd like a browser which shows me the pages as fast as possible 
Jun 20 22:35:28 <freemangordon> with talk.maemo.org opened it uses 23.3 % memory
Jun 20 22:35:52 <freemangordon> and it is fast, no comparison with the one in the repos
Jun 20 22:36:40 <freemangordon> maybe you miss some history, I am talking about version 14b7, thumb2 compiled and neon optimized
Jun 20 22:37:00 <nox-> so thumb works now?
Jun 20 22:37:14 <freemangordon> so far
Jun 20 22:37:55 <nox-> with nokia repo or does it need something special?
Jun 20 22:38:05 <freemangordon> no reports for crashes till now, not sure how many are using cssu-thumb, maybe about 10 people
Jun 20 22:38:14 <freemangordon> more than special :D
Jun 20 22:38:20 <nox-> hah ok
Jun 20 22:38:41 <freemangordon> a kernel, new libstdc++, new compiler, etc,etc
Jun 20 22:38:51 <nox-> oh well...
Jun 20 22:38:56 <Raimu> What's this, someone compiled Fennec 14?
Jun 20 22:39:02 <freemangordon> yep
Jun 20 22:39:06 <Viltzu> ouch umh.
Jun 20 22:39:23 <Raimu> Neat.
Jun 20 22:39:32 <freemangordon> Raimu: read the backscroll, it was zeq_laptop
Jun 20 22:39:38 <Raimu> Yeah, getting there.
Jun 20 22:39:55 <Raimu> zeq_laptop: Ooh, congrats!
Jun 20 22:40:04 <Viltzu> How I'm exactly going to copy to N900 /opt/. Because if I first copy to N900 in storage mode to that ntfs partition or whatever it is, symlinks will disappear
Jun 20 22:40:07 <Viltzu> :u
Jun 20 22:40:16 <freemangordon> use ssh
Jun 20 22:40:26 <peetah> freemangordon: I thought the fennec >8.0 issue was a change in the javascript engine that requires CPU instructions unavailable on N900 ?
Jun 20 22:40:48 <freemangordon> Viltzu: WinScp if you're under windows
Jun 20 22:40:53 <peetah> freemangordon: how thumb2 can solve this ?
Jun 20 22:40:59 <freemangordon> peetah: NFC, I have it in front of me
Jun 20 22:41:14 <freemangordon> thumb2 are special instructions
Jun 20 22:41:19 <freemangordon> :P
Jun 20 22:41:48 <freemangordon> available on n900 but broken without workarounds in kernel
Jun 20 22:43:03 <peetah> freemangordon: yes, I read your TMO thread explaining this, but I was talking of requirement for floating point related instructions that the N900 cpu cannot provide
Jun 20 22:43:50 <peetah> from what I understand, thumb2 provides the same instructions in a shorter form, am I right ?
Jun 20 22:44:10 <peetah> *same as ARM
Jun 20 22:44:21 <freemangordon> NEON? where did you get that n900 CPU does not support then
Jun 20 22:44:34 <freemangordon> it is perfectly supported (neon that is)
Jun 20 22:44:54 <freemangordon> yeah, something like that
Jun 20 22:45:26 <Viltzu> And now that I have the allegro dir in /opt/ on my n900?
Jun 20 22:45:29 <peetah> read something about it in the fennec thread
Jun 20 22:46:42 <freemangordon> Viltzu: open xterm, root, cd to /opt/allegro and do chmod -R 755 *
Jun 20 22:47:13 <freemangordon> after that exit and ./allegro (if that is the name of the executable)
Jun 20 22:47:14 <Viltzu> Don
Jun 20 22:47:43 <Viltzu> exit what?
Jun 20 22:48:11 <freemangordon> if you have some shared libs in your directory, you should do "export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/allegro/path_to_lib"
Jun 20 22:48:14 <peetah> freemangordon: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1152008&postcount=27 => "In 9.0 the JIT was finally changed, but also was disabled in non SSE2 cpu's (at least in X86). In late 12.0 builds it has been reenabled again, but all FPU operations are done in slow C++ code in non SSE2 cpu's, resulting in a 25% slowdown."
Jun 20 22:48:21 <freemangordon> exit, so you won't run it as root
Jun 20 22:48:40 <Viltzu> ah ok
Jun 20 22:48:49 <freemangordon> peetah: that is 14
Jun 20 22:49:00 <Viltzu> well it says not found?
Jun 20 22:49:07 <freemangordon> and it has --with-neon switch
Jun 20 22:49:16 <freemangordon> Viltzu: on which command
Jun 20 22:49:24 <Viltzu> ./allegro
Jun 20 22:49:34 <Viltzu> And I'm not wondering why doesn't it found..
Jun 20 22:49:38 <Viltzu> Why would it?
Jun 20 22:49:56 <Viltzu> oh wait, should I do it in /opt/? :>
Jun 20 22:49:57 <freemangordon> man, do a ls -al and check how is the executable called
Jun 20 22:50:23 <freemangordon> I am just guessing, NFC what allegro is
Jun 20 22:50:59 <Viltzu> Me neither. But I think it's more like a library ;)
Jun 20 22:51:05 <Raimu> Opera on n900 gives 4340ms in the test.
Jun 20 22:51:26 <Viltzu> Okay it is a library.
Jun 20 22:51:41 <Viltzu> So it's probably useless to try to excute it
Jun 20 22:51:42 <Raimu> Considering Opera tends to be the quick-and-dirty browser, that's VERY well from Fennec.
Jun 20 22:51:45 <Viltzu> :>
Jun 20 22:52:03 <freemangordon> Raimu: hmm, let me check the PhoneME opera
Jun 20 22:52:25 <peetah> ok, so that gives me the guts to test cssu-thumb2 !
Jun 20 22:52:54 <merlin1991> chem|st: err why should I abandon my n900? :D
Jun 20 22:53:16 <Estel_> damn, I must go to sleep, It took me 30 minutes to get that freemangordon's "10x" was "thanks"
Jun 20 22:53:31 <Raimu> Estel :)
Jun 20 22:53:34 <Estel_> either I'm getting too old for l33t, or I'm in love :P
Jun 20 22:53:50 <Estel_> now with You, Raimu :P
Jun 20 22:53:52 <freemangordon> merlin1991: aren't you supposed to sleep :P. you have an exam tomorrow
Jun 20 22:54:02 <Estel_> s/now/not/
Jun 20 22:54:03 <infobot> Estel_ meant: not with You, Raimu :P
Jun 20 22:54:04 <Raimu> But Estel! <3 <3
Jun 20 22:54:08 <merlin1991> never heard of emergency late night sessions? :D
Jun 20 22:54:11 <Estel_> lmao
Jun 20 22:54:15 <merlin1991> and the exam is 18:00-20:00 :/
Jun 20 22:54:22 <peetah> just one question: can thumb2-compiled binaries and ARM-compiled binaries coexists, or should I wait for all the softwares currently installed in my N900 to be recompiled for thumb2 ?
Jun 20 22:54:25 <freemangordon> aah, ok then
Jun 20 22:54:38 <Estel_> :)
Jun 20 22:54:38 <freemangordon> peetah: they can
Jun 20 22:54:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: sent!
Jun 20 22:54:50 <Estel_> freemangordon,  sorry for not testing CSSU-thumb yet
Jun 20 22:55:05 <freemangordon> only those packages that are int thumb repo are thumb-compiled, everything else is arm
Jun 20 22:55:14 <Estel_> idiot who send me replacement motherrboard, actually did it to outdated address
Jun 20 22:55:20 <Estel_> 400 km away
Jun 20 22:56:10 <Estel_> = I don't have guts to try it on device, that will get backuped and transferred to new motherboard soon, currently, having no usb, charging chip and camera
Jun 20 22:56:12 <freemangordon> hmm, PhoneMe opera mini does not like sunspider test
Jun 20 22:56:44 <freemangordon> Raimu: what was that html compliance site?
Jun 20 22:56:52 <Estel_> freemangordon,  someone is making chromium port for N900, again?
Jun 20 22:56:54 <Estel_> (logs)
Jun 20 22:57:03 <Raimu> freemangordon: The benchmarker?
Jun 20 22:57:06 <freemangordon> or was it CSS2 compliance?
Jun 20 22:57:51 <Raimu> I dunno what you mean -- acid3.acidtests.org ?
Jun 20 22:58:03 <freemangordon> Raimu: nah, the one with coloured squares
Jun 20 22:58:06 <freemangordon> Yeah
Jun 20 22:58:18 <freemangordon> acid3 test
Jun 20 22:59:59 <freemangordon> 99/100, not bad
Jun 20 23:00:05 <Estel_> microb result
Jun 20 23:00:19 <Estel_> I wonder what they complain about
Jun 20 23:00:20 <freemangordon> something like 80/100 or so
Jun 20 23:00:24 <Estel_> no
Jun 20 23:00:31 <Estel_> I've tested it now in microB
Jun 20 23:00:32 <Estel_> 99
Jun 20 23:00:36 <freemangordon> aah, ok
Jun 20 23:00:36 <Estel_> was the result
Jun 20 23:01:18 <freemangordon> hmm, if we can upgrade microb with that gecko, it will be a killer
Jun 20 23:02:07 <freemangordon> that should be relatively easy if there is an option for gkt build , not qt
Jun 20 23:02:12 <freemangordon> *gtk
Jun 20 23:03:43 <Raimu> Opera scores 100/100
Jun 20 23:04:10 <Raimu> But I never tested microB. 99/100 is very adept.
Jun 20 23:04:23 <vi__> Woody14619: ping
Jun 20 23:04:42 <peetah> I have KP50 bootimg package installed, and not the to-be-flashed KP50 package: will cssu-thumb2 try to flash a new kernel or will it smartly add a bootimg kernel so that I can u-boot-update-bootmenu it ?
Jun 20 23:05:03 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
Jun 20 23:05:16 <freemangordon> peetah: just have in mind there is easy no rollback from thumb , only a reflash
Jun 20 23:05:41 <freemangordon> peetah: it will flash a new kernel, you'd better read again the thread
Jun 20 23:06:01 <peetah> ok I will thanks
Jun 20 23:06:31 <vi__> gratz on your n950 FMG
Jun 20 23:06:49 <freemangordon> same to you :)
Jun 20 23:07:47 <vi__> brb
Jun 20 23:07:48 <Estel_> freemangordon,  if You will upgrade microB backend...
Jun 20 23:08:15 <freemangordon> Estel_: yeah, thats the idea
Jun 20 23:08:17 <Estel_> we will... we will... No idea, do something nice to You
Jun 20 23:08:31 <Estel_> probably involving sexual assault ;)
Jun 20 23:08:38 <Raimu> Now I see.
Jun 20 23:08:45 <freemangordon> Estel_: no, thanks :D
Jun 20 23:08:59 <Estel_> but honestly, it would be over, over, overkill
Jun 20 23:09:02 <freemangordon> But I don;t think I can make it alone
Jun 20 23:09:21 <freemangordon> anywa, that is still far in the future
Jun 20 23:09:27 * Estel_ nods
Jun 20 23:10:02 <Estel_> btw, vi_, what are You going to do with N950? :)
Jun 20 23:10:05 * freemangordon needs some sleep
Jun 20 23:10:11 <Estel_> good night!
Jun 20 23:10:14 <freemangordon> night
Jun 20 23:10:37 <merlin1991> freemangordon: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Awards#Winners
Jun 20 23:10:38 <merlin1991> err
Jun 20 23:10:39 <merlin1991> shit
Jun 20 23:10:42 <merlin1991> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1224920&postcount=184
Jun 20 23:10:48 <merlin1991> fsckd copy & paste
Jun 20 23:11:00 <Estel_> no worries, everything seem to be circulating about CA today :P
Jun 20 23:13:19 <Viltzu> Okay so yes, allegro is a library.
Jun 20 23:13:34 <Viltzu> And the files should probably be in /usr/local/lib
Jun 20 23:13:39 <Macer> n950s are collectables
Jun 20 23:13:42 <Viltzu> I put them there
Jun 20 23:13:57 <Viltzu> Programs won't find them
Jun 20 23:14:01 <Viltzu> what to do?
Jun 20 23:14:52 <Viltzu> In scratchbox I can do make install in the build directory and it will do anything needed (throw the .so files and  such to /usr/local/lib/) and there it will work
Jun 20 23:15:31 <Viltzu> But what I should now do in N900 so programs would find them.. uhm.
Jun 20 23:17:02 <Viltzu> Okay googling.
Jun 20 23:18:51 <Viltzu> Oh yeah.
Jun 20 23:19:01 <DocScrutinizer05> o/ oo
Jun 20 23:19:19 <Viltzu> added the path /usr/local/lib to ld.so.conf and then ldconfig and now it works :>
Jun 20 23:19:51 <DocScrutinizer05> a miracle
Jun 20 23:19:55 <freemangordon> merlin1991: and why the hell he has to use fapman for system upgrade?
Jun 20 23:20:04 <merlin1991> nfc
Jun 20 23:20:44 <freemangordon> some people learn it the hard way :(
Jun 20 23:20:49 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh another fatality due to fapman? lol
Jun 20 23:21:13 <freemangordon> well, it is not dead, just crashing a little bit :D
Jun 20 23:21:25 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway
Jun 20 23:21:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ~o
Jun 20 23:21:28 <infobot> methinks o is OH!, or ~o means 'over' in context of write(1)
Jun 20 23:21:35 <DocScrutinizer05> oo
Jun 20 23:21:47 <freemangordon> yeah, i am out too
Jun 20 23:30:56 <Viltzu> Why I no can get to http://maemo.org/packages/
Jun 20 23:30:57 <Viltzu> :U
Jun 20 23:32:26 <Estel_> freemangordon,  I'm stubborn and I use fapman for CSSU to, since... always :P no problems so far. Yea, I know the risk
Jun 20 23:32:58 <merlin1991> srly maemo.org down again
Jun 20 23:32:58 <Estel_> every version I check if everything works, will be first to report if really, really, one days something won't work via fapman and will via HAM
Jun 20 23:32:59 <merlin1991> ffs
Jun 20 23:33:09 <Estel_> damn
Jun 20 23:33:31 <merlin1991> repos and talk still up though
Jun 20 23:34:10 <Estel_> OK, I'm of to The Dreaming too
Jun 20 23:34:13 <Estel_> see ya!
Jun 20 23:45:27 <Viltzu> scratchbox says "_X!!TransSocketINETConnect() can't get adress for localhost:6002: Name or service not known"
Jun 20 23:45:33 <Viltzu> "failed to create display!"
Jun 20 23:45:41 <Viltzu> when trying to run one of the examples of allegro
Jun 20 23:45:46 <Viltzu> and N900
Jun 20 23:46:06 <Viltzu> 4 times "Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0"."
Jun 20 23:46:12 <Viltzu> and then the "failed to create display!"
Jun 20 23:46:25 <Viltzu> Any ideas why?
Jun 20 23:53:21 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer; cool
Jun 21 00:00:18 <r00t|home> Viltzu: no localhost in /etc/hosts ? ;)
Jun 21 00:01:46 <Viltzu> Right..
Jun 21 00:03:42 <Viltzu> That fixes (altough not the "failed to create display" but yeah)
Jun 21 00:03:51 <Viltzu> how about that GLX missing when trying on N900?
Jun 21 00:06:15 <r00t|home> Viltzu: does the program require GL?
Jun 21 00:07:22 <Viltzu> Yes
Jun 21 00:08:05 <Viltzu> Friend also got that with MeeGo on N9 and he fixed it but the failed to create display stays.
Jun 21 00:08:16 <Viltzu> Altough that error is made by the program
Jun 21 00:08:30 <Macer> heh
Jun 21 00:08:30 <Viltzu> So yeah hmm
Jun 21 00:08:41 <Macer> how much to N9s cost nowadays
Jun 21 00:08:47 <Macer> i figure they would be a bit cheap
Jun 21 00:08:52 <Viltzu> 16GB 300e
Jun 21 00:08:58 <Macer> that is not cheap :-P
Jun 21 00:08:59 <Macer> heh
Jun 21 00:09:25 <Macer> i still wouldn't mind getting an e7 if they drop to like.... 200 or less
Jun 21 00:09:41 <Viltzu> And thats at it cheapest price you probably can get as a new
Jun 21 00:09:58 <Viltzu> 430€ is more common in stores for N9.
Jun 21 00:10:08 <Macer> wow
Jun 21 00:10:14 <Macer> e7 is still in the 300s as well
Jun 21 00:10:17 <Macer> wtf? :)
Jun 21 00:10:51 <Macer> the last of the symbians
Jun 21 00:10:59 <Macer> i have a lumia 900 now... wp7 is actually good
Jun 21 00:11:01 <Macer> better than expected
Jun 21 00:11:06 <Viltzu> So they say
Jun 21 00:11:11 <Macer> still miss my N900 tho :(
Jun 21 00:11:18 <Macer> stupid sim reader stopped working correctly
Jun 21 00:11:27 <Viltzu> Tim Cook liked wp7 also.
Jun 21 00:11:36 <Viltzu> I think he said it was better than iOS
Jun 21 00:11:53 <Macer> i think it is just ios with tiles :-P
Jun 21 00:12:06 <Macer> the way it handles background apps is almost the exact same
Jun 21 00:12:08 <Viltzu> (Tim Cook, CEO of Apple, if you didn't know)
Jun 21 00:12:16 <Macer> ie: it just doesn't run them
Jun 21 00:12:36 <r00t|home> lol
Jun 21 00:12:58 <r00t|home> who needs multitasking anyway... multitasking is so last century...
Jun 21 00:13:37 <Macer> you mean jobs isn't around anymore
Jun 21 00:13:40 * Macer hides
Jun 21 00:13:59 <Macer> r00t|home: multitasking eats power i guess
Jun 21 00:14:04 <r00t|home> jobs was switched into background
Jun 21 00:14:05 <Macer> although my n900 seemed to use power just fine
Jun 21 00:14:31 <Macer> unless i was runnign something retarded.. like gcc on the battery :)
Jun 21 00:15:01 <r00t|home> depends on how urgently you need to get that code compiled...
Jun 21 00:16:13 <Macer> i'm just saying. i never really had power issues with the n900 and it was a true multitasker
Jun 21 00:16:18 <Macer> i still have it around here somewhere collecting dust
Jun 21 00:16:26 <Macer> poor thing :)
Jun 21 00:16:42 <Macer> first n900 had the usb port rip off
Jun 21 00:16:46 <Macer> 2nd one had the sim reader fail
Jun 21 00:16:55 <Macer> 3rd one will never be bought heh
Jun 21 00:19:28 <Viltzu> Where do you live?
Jun 21 00:19:41 <Viltzu> looks like in Finland
Jun 21 00:19:45 <Viltzu> How much do you ask?
Jun 21 00:20:05 <Viltzu> Macer, ^
Jun 21 00:23:31 <Viltzu> :(
Jun 21 00:23:38 <RiD> diff
Jun 21 00:24:16 <Viltzu> differential
Jun 21 00:24:58 <RiD> me no ingres sory
Jun 21 00:41:53 <Macer> chicago
Jun 21 00:42:10 <Macer> sorry. i was installing a new cssu update on the n900 that i just turned on after 2 months heh
Jun 21 00:42:21 <Viltzu> k
Jun 21 00:42:25 <Macer> it does not seem to agree with the n900.. it is stuck at the dot screen
Jun 21 00:42:44 <Macer> am i missing something here? :)
Jun 21 00:42:46 <Viltzu> In chicago for real ?
Jun 21 00:43:08 <Macer> yes.. i am in chicago
Jun 21 00:43:22 <Viltzu> Okay :<
Jun 21 00:43:42 <Macer> not all n900 owners are in the eu ;)
Jun 21 00:43:51 <Viltzu> :>
Jun 21 00:44:38 <wmarone> hehe
Jun 21 00:46:06 <Macer> although i don't consider myself much of an owner with my broken n900 :'(
Jun 21 00:46:30 <Macer> damn i love this thing.. either way i no longer have tmobile so even if i wanted to use it.. it would be edge.. and that just sucks
Jun 21 00:47:05 <wmarone> it does suck
Jun 21 00:47:17 <wmarone> but I've tolerated it for this long!
Jun 21 00:47:28 <Viltzu> blackholes suck.
Jun 21 00:47:32 <wmarone> though I did have the 2 weeks in Japan with 3.5G everywhere I went
Jun 21 00:47:35 <Viltzu> That's a fact.
Jun 21 00:53:38 <Macer> Viltzu: some might argue that black holes actually push you ;)
Jun 21 00:53:50 <Macer> gravity is more of a push
Jun 21 00:54:30 <Macer> wmarone: well.. the modem doesn't support the att freq 
Jun 21 00:54:47 <Macer> and i crossed over to the dark side after my n900 broke.. which was the only thing keeping me with crappy tmobile ;)
Jun 21 00:54:50 <wmarone> it supports the 2G frequency, which is what I've been on :/
Jun 21 00:54:58 <wmarone> well, 2.5G
Jun 21 00:55:01 <wmarone> but still, shit slow
Jun 21 00:55:02 <Macer> well.. i meant the att 3G one ;)
Jun 21 00:55:05 <wmarone> yes
Jun 21 00:55:08 <Viltzu> 2.5G is EDGE.
Jun 21 00:55:11 <Macer> i can't do slow data
Jun 21 00:55:34 <Viltzu> asd
Jun 21 00:55:43 <Viltzu> allegro filled rootfs on N900.
Jun 21 00:56:00 <Viltzu> But but... I need to throw that shit there
Jun 21 00:56:13 <Viltzu> symbolic links would do also but that means work
Jun 21 00:56:15 <Viltzu> or a script.
Jun 21 00:57:04 <Macer> i use the n900 every once in a while on my wifi
Jun 21 00:57:12 <Macer> it's good for using irc in bed ;) 
Jun 21 00:57:29 <Macer> or ssh
Jun 21 00:57:35 <Macer> :-/ wish everything had xterm
Jun 21 00:57:49 <Macer> cygwin for wp7 heh
Jun 21 00:57:53 <Viltzu> Okay looks like allegro wasn't the one using all the space..
Jun 21 00:57:56 <Viltzu> now what is it...
Jun 21 00:58:25 <Viltzu> How will I find that out?
Jun 21 00:59:53 <Viltzu> with du maybe.
Jun 21 01:00:27 <Viltzu> /usr/ is 375.3M
Jun 21 01:00:28 <Viltzu> erhm.
Jun 21 01:01:25 <Viltzu> /usr/lib is 225MB.
Jun 21 01:01:38 <Viltzu> Thats a lot of libs.
Jun 21 01:03:33 <RiD> talking to yourself
Jun 21 01:03:37 <RiD> thats nice
Jun 21 01:03:45 <RiD> you should see a doctor.
Jun 21 01:04:25 <Viltzu> Ok.
Jun 21 01:04:31 <Viltzu> gcc is taking lot of space :u
Jun 21 01:04:45 <Viltzu> I just delete it. duh don't need it anymore
Jun 21 01:06:54 * RiD looks at Viltzu, sadly.
Jun 21 01:07:30 <Viltzu> Okay apt-get remove gcc won't remove those libs
Jun 21 01:07:39 <Viltzu> Just manually remove?
Jun 21 01:07:46 <Viltzu> Why do I ask. There is just you.
Jun 21 01:08:31 <Macer> apt-get autoremove might help if you have deps that aren't going away
Jun 21 01:09:22 <Viltzu> I was just going to try that
Jun 21 01:10:12 <Viltzu> Oh wow. It's going to remove a lot. And some of em looks like I might even need them. Oh well
Jun 21 01:10:54 <Viltzu> Or are -dev just when compiling and dat?
Jun 21 01:11:51 <Macer> -dev are usually deps related to development and shouldn't affect anything not that runs
Jun 21 01:11:55 <Macer> at least in my experience
Jun 21 01:12:06 <Viltzu> okay the /usr/lib/gcc stays after autoremove
Jun 21 01:12:11 <Viltzu> I just rm it.
Jun 21 01:12:23 <Viltzu> Hope nothing breaks. Probably not, and I don't need gcc anymore so..
Jun 21 01:15:57 <Viltzu> Okay hmm something else is taking space also..
Jun 21 01:17:29 <Viltzu> but well I have enough space already.
Jun 21 01:23:00 <Viltzu> asd autoremove did delete something that I still needed :|
Jun 21 02:43:11 <jonwil> I think my precious N900 is damaged.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 21 02:59:58 2012