**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 22 02:59:59 2012
Jun 22 04:19:05 <jonwil> bah, I am still no closer to figuring out what to do about my broken N900
Jun 22 08:10:53 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: https://wiki.linaro.org/WorkingGroups/ToolChain
Jun 22 08:11:12 <freemangordon> 10x
Jun 22 08:11:47 <zeq_laptop> I'm going to have a go at building 4.7-2012.06 for scratchbox if you don't beat me to it
Jun 22 08:12:07 <zeq_laptop> did you see I'd built a new hildon-desktop ^^^
Jun 22 08:12:14 <freemangordon> no way, I won't have much time till monday
Jun 22 08:12:46 <freemangordon> yeah, saw that :). 
Jun 22 08:13:26 <zeq_laptop> I'll let you know how I get on.  Is the howto on scratchbox.org valid for importing toolchains?
Jun 22 08:14:59 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: re. fennec.  a little research has revealed we need to use the h-d API provided by qtmaemo for rotation support
Jun 22 08:15:35 <freemangordon> yep, I am in the process of implementing it
Jun 22 08:15:42 <zeq_laptop> cool! :)
Jun 22 08:16:02 <zeq_laptop> don't forget vol/zoom :)
Jun 22 08:17:19 <freemangordon> aaah, lets first finish with the rotation :)
Jun 22 08:17:32 <zeq_laptop> one thing at a time
Jun 22 08:18:06 <freemangordon> yeah
Jun 22 08:19:46 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: deffinitely we a need of version control for fennec
Jun 22 08:20:02 <freemangordon> *we need a
Jun 22 08:21:45 <zeq_laptop> mozilla uses mercurial
Jun 22 08:22:40 <zeq_laptop> https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central
Jun 22 08:25:02 <vi_> freemangordon: Yes I was highly amused by your comment.  Trollmode level 99.
Jun 22 08:26:05 <zeq_laptop> I guess we should work from http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta
Jun 22 08:30:48 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: I mean a place we can make commits, so we can share the code changes easily
Jun 22 08:32:12 <freemangordon> vi_: You call me troll ?!?
Jun 22 08:32:15 * freemangordon creeps ashamed back under the bridge where he lives
Jun 22 08:33:13 <StyXman> freemangordon: what are you planning you two?
Jun 22 08:33:36 <freemangordon> StyXman: a working and usable fennec for n900
Jun 22 08:33:52 <freemangordon> (if you mean me and zeq_laptop)
Jun 22 08:34:31 <freemangordon> so far it is working, but not easy to use as the screen is rotated ny 90 degrees :D
Jun 22 08:34:32 <StyXman> yeap
Jun 22 08:34:40 <freemangordon> *by
Jun 22 08:34:56 <StyXman> ok, tx
Jun 22 08:36:55 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: I get that.  I suppose we don't need the full history, just a public hosted git repo would do.
Jun 22 08:37:19 <zeq_laptop> I have an account on github
Jun 22 08:40:31 <zeq_laptop> StyXman: the officially supported fennec widgets are Android and qt.  The gtk widget has been left to bit-rot, that's why we've not had an official fennec build since v7. The Maemo5 support code was only in the gtk widget, the qt widget does have Maemo6 and MeeGo support code however.
Jun 22 08:41:46 <freemangordon> yep, unfortunately i have an account on gitorious. Let the battle begin :D
Jun 22 08:42:04 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: on the other hand we could setup an account on garage
Jun 22 08:42:15 <freemangordon> *project
Jun 22 08:42:36 <zeq_laptop> I need to register on them anyway...
Jun 22 08:43:55 <zeq_laptop> Would it be possible to still track upstream mozilla mercurial?
Jun 22 08:44:04 <zeq_laptop> (as a remote)
Jun 22 08:44:32 <zeq_laptop> would make it much easier if we decide to get our changes upstreamed
Jun 22 08:45:11 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: NFC, most prolly not. I don't know if git could fetch remote mercurial branches
Jun 22 08:45:35 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: If you want to make those upstreamed, I am all for it
Jun 22 08:47:39 <freemangordon> but don't expect me to be of any use but coding, i really don't have the nerves/diplomacy needed to argue on mozilla bug tracker
Jun 22 08:48:59 <zeq_laptop> I know what you mean...
Jun 22 08:49:18 <freemangordon> ok, fennec .deb with maemo5 changes ready, lets check if those work
Jun 22 08:49:40 <zeq_laptop> let me at em :)
Jun 22 08:56:00 <zeq_laptop> Maybe we need to talk to Romaxa
Jun 22 08:57:11 <StyXman> well, for git/hg interaction there's fastexport/import, but it's a PITA. you could also check Joey Hess' mr, but I barely know that it exists
Jun 22 08:57:42 <zeq_laptop> there's also git-hg, but I've no experience with it
Jun 22 09:04:40 <freemangordon> hmm, rotation work as it should, but fennec does not resize when in portrait, lemme check
Jun 22 09:05:41 <zeq_laptop> ok
Jun 22 09:09:50 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: just registered on garage
Jun 22 09:10:40 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: great. now we can start a new project and upload the source there
Jun 22 09:15:08 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: we should make sure we turn off the official branding before we make this public, unless/until we get it upstreamed.
Jun 22 09:17:22 <freemangordon> ok
Jun 22 09:17:32 <freemangordon> I'll remember that
Jun 22 09:22:17 <zeq_laptop> official fennec/qt for Maemo5 bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=566448
Jun 22 09:22:19 <povbot> 04Bug 566448: was not found.
Jun 22 09:32:25 <freemangordon> nice
Jun 22 09:35:17 <Hurrian> freemangordon, newer firefox builds for Maemo?
Jun 22 09:36:08 <mgedmin> oh silly povbot, haven't I taught you to ignore bugillas other than bugzilla.maemo.org?
Jun 22 09:36:11 <mgedmin> apparently not
Jun 22 09:36:30 <Lava_Croft> poor povbot is doing the best job it can do!
Jun 22 09:36:37 * Lava_Croft pats povbot on the shoulder
Jun 22 09:39:29 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: shall I just re-use fennec as the project "Unix Name"?
Jun 22 09:40:47 <zeq_laptop> i see "Cannot match the unix name of any other project", so I thought I'd check :)
Jun 22 09:40:48 <Lava_Croft> zeq_laptop: isnt 'fennec' what they use for firefox mobile
Jun 22 09:41:19 <zeq_laptop> yes, we're porting Fennec/Qt to fremantle
Jun 22 09:42:33 <zeq_laptop> it's the version used on Harm/MeeGo, but currently lacks h-d support etc
Jun 22 09:42:40 <zeq_laptop> see backscroll
Jun 22 09:42:55 <Lava_Croft> yes, i was kind affirming your idea
Jun 22 09:43:18 <teotwaki> Lava_Croft: /nick Lava_Cruft would be funny :)
Jun 22 09:43:31 <Lava_Croft> but that would ruin the nice story attached to this nickname!
Jun 22 09:43:36 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: it is fennec after all, if someone complains I think we can change the name
Jun 22 09:43:38 <Lava_Croft> a story of puberty, potsmoking and quakeworld
Jun 22 09:43:39 <zeq_laptop> I just wanted to check using "fennec" on Garage was okay
Jun 22 09:43:58 <freemangordon> i think it is
Jun 22 09:44:13 <freemangordon> who cares after all, mozilla?
Jun 22 09:44:22 <zeq_laptop> okay, submitted
Jun 22 09:44:27 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 22 09:44:33 <Lava_Croft> mozilla is a tainted brand for a browser anyway, makes me think of slow, fat browsers
Jun 22 09:45:00 <freemangordon> ok, almost there, rotation is 80% functional :D
Jun 22 09:45:20 <zeq_laptop> 80%? Off by a few degrees? ;)
Jun 22 09:47:15 <freemangordon> nah, the resize still not working ok
Jun 22 09:57:35 <zeq_laptop> how long does garage registation usually take?
Jun 22 09:58:47 <freemangordon> less than 24 hours
Jun 22 10:03:47 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: I'm going to give that linaro toolchain build a go, any tips?
Jun 22 10:05:44 <freemangordon> hmm, not any I can think of. lets face a real problem, maybe then i will remember something
Jun 22 10:06:05 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: you will try to build it inside SB?
Jun 22 10:07:49 <vi_> If rotation is now 80% functional does that mean it now rotates to within 18 degrees of useable?
Jun 22 10:08:42 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: tbh I don't know where to begin... do I just build a cross-toolchain?
Jun 22 10:09:00 <zeq_laptop> gcc -v output on the gcc-4.6 we're using:
Jun 22 10:09:01 <zeq_laptop> Configured with: /home/jhakala/cs2007q3-sb7/arm/src/gcc-4.2/configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi --enable-threads --disable-libmudflap --disable-libssp --disable-libgomp --disable-libstdcxx-pch --with-gnu-as --with-gnu-ld --enable-languages=c,c++ --enable-shared --enable-symvers=gnu --enable-__cxa_atexit --disable-nls --prefix=/opt/maemo --with-sysroot=/opt/maemo/a
Jun 22 10:09:50 * StyXman sees --host --target, remembers and shudders
Jun 22 10:10:22 <zeq_laptop> I've quite a bit of experience build cross-compilers so that doesn't worry me in itself
Jun 22 10:12:54 <zeq_laptop> I'm using Gentoo so I could just use crossdev setup a cross-toolchain first
Jun 22 10:13:24 <zeq_laptop> but I suspect I won't be able to just drop that into scratchbox
Jun 22 10:16:14 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: I get those from gcc 4.2.1 in SB, I suspect you should use the same
Jun 22 10:17:11 <freemangordon> vi_: exactly :)
Jun 22 10:18:06 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: you are sure this is the output from gcc 4.6.2?
Jun 22 10:18:41 <zeq_laptop> yes, that's from the toolchain you suggested I download
Jun 22 10:18:49 <zeq_laptop> and I've been using since
Jun 22 10:18:49 <freemangordon> this is what i have:
Jun 22 10:18:53 <freemangordon> Configured with: ../gcc-4.6.2/configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi --enable-threads --disable-libmudflap --disable-libssp --disable-libgomp --disable-libstdcxx-pch --with-gnu-as --with-gnu-ld --enable-languages=c,c++ --enable-shared --enable-symvers=gnu --enable-__cxa_atexit --disable-nls --prefix=/home/maemo/gcc/gcc-thumb/sb --with-build
Jun 22 10:18:53 <freemangordon> -sysroot=/home/maemo/gcc/gcc-thumb/arm/install/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/libc --with-build-time-tools=/home/maemo/gcc/gcc-thumb/arm/install/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin --with-sysroot=/
Jun 22 10:19:07 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: check your current target
Jun 22 10:19:37 * zeq_laptop feels embarrased
Jun 22 10:19:54 <freemangordon> :)
Jun 22 10:20:29 <zeq_laptop> yes, that's what I have :)
Jun 22 10:21:05 <zeq_laptop> I used /scratchbox/compilers/.../gcc -v from outside scratchbox
Jun 22 10:21:10 * freemangordon wonders what "that" is
Jun 22 10:21:43 <zeq_laptop> when I run gcc -v from within scratchbox I get the same output as you do :)
Jun 22 10:21:48 <freemangordon> aah, ok
Jun 22 10:21:52 <freemangordon> nice :)
Jun 22 10:22:42 <freemangordon> btw is that debianized?
Jun 22 10:23:11 <zeq_laptop> so I should build from within scratchbox?
Jun 22 10:23:29 <freemangordon> I don't think you'll be able
Jun 22 10:23:39 <zeq_laptop> I didn't think I would
Jun 22 10:23:39 <freemangordon> I built it from outside
Jun 22 10:23:54 <freemangordon> :nod:
Jun 22 10:24:11 <zeq_laptop> I'm on x86_64, I probably should make it for i686 ...
Jun 22 10:24:20 <zeq_laptop> canadian cross
Jun 22 10:24:24 <zeq_laptop> hmm
Jun 22 10:28:43 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: yeah
Jun 22 10:29:11 <freemangordon> don't do it 64bit, won't work in wmware images AFAIK
Jun 22 10:29:32 <teotwaki> 64-bit doesn't work in vmware?
Jun 22 10:30:15 <freemangordon> teotwaki: vmware SB images prepared by Nokia are 32bit
Jun 22 10:30:23 <teotwaki> ah
Jun 22 10:32:20 <LaoLang_cool> I installed gcc-4.6 and want to compile the simplest hello.c, but gcc says there isn't stdio.h
Jun 22 10:32:23 <LaoLang_cool> how to solve it?
Jun 22 10:33:03 <zeq_laptop> LaoLang_cool: how did you install gcc-4.6
Jun 22 10:33:06 <zeq_laptop> ?
Jun 22 10:34:05 <SpeedEvil> main(){puts("hello world");}
Jun 22 10:34:19 <freemangordon> some TMO member(Aapo?) uploaded it in extras-devel
Jun 22 10:34:29 <LaoLang_cool> zeq_laptop, apt-get install gcc-4.6
Jun 22 10:34:35 <freemangordon> but it is 4.6.1 AFAIK
Jun 22 10:36:05 <LaoLang_cool> SpeedEvil, gcc-4.6: error trying to exec 'as': execvp: No such file or directory
Jun 22 10:36:19 <freemangordon> LaoLang_cool: binutils?
Jun 22 10:36:49 <SpeedEvil> Copy the entire root filesystem to a subdirectory.
Jun 22 10:36:54 <SpeedEvil> (one not on the rootfs)
Jun 22 10:37:18 <SpeedEvil> chroot into that, install the 'tools' repo, and do apt-get build-essentials
Jun 22 10:37:24 <SpeedEvil> that way you don't fill up your /
Jun 22 10:37:31 <LaoLang_cool> If I use tcc to compile, it says: tcc: file '/usr/lib/crtl.o' not found
Jun 22 10:37:37 <LaoLang_cool> underfined symbol 'puts'
Jun 22 10:46:17 <LaoLang_cool> freemangordon, will install it
Jun 22 10:46:35 <LaoLang_cool> How to keep a pkg from apt-get upgrade?
Jun 22 10:48:57 <LaoLang_cool> freemangordon, now it says: /usr/bin/ld: this linker was not configured to use sysroots
Jun 22 10:49:05 <LaoLang_cool> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
Jun 22 10:49:29 <LaoLang_cool> tcc still outputs the same error
Jun 22 10:53:21 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: http://fennec.garage.maemo.org/
Jun 22 10:54:53 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: what's your username on garage?
Jun 22 10:55:35 <zeq_laptop> I'll add you as admin
Jun 22 11:09:26 <zeq_laptop> toolchain build is underway, fingers crossed
Jun 22 11:09:58 * zeq_laptop wanders off
Jun 22 11:50:11 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: freemangordon :D
Jun 22 12:06:32 <vi_> who could have guessed a community awards competition could foster so much butthurt and rage?
Jun 22 12:07:07 <freemangordon> vi_: well, I see only 2 trolling there (3 if you count me :P )
Jun 22 12:07:44 <freemangordon> the others look like they are ok with what was decided
Jun 22 12:11:00 <vi_> Or kojacker.
Jun 22 12:11:08 <vi_> He is normally a cool guy.
Jun 22 12:11:39 <vi_> However I don't take being antagonised easily.
Jun 22 12:13:50 <vi_> I wish there was a word in the English language for describing the manner that a person takes when on the surface they would appear to be acting overtly kind however with a little analysis their words can be seen to be an antagonistic wall of fuck.
Jun 22 12:14:54 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: done :)
Jun 22 12:16:16 <freemangordon> vi_: if you want to make him (and trolls) mad, just post a reference to qgil's statement that those devices will be owned by us, along with all taxes will be paid by Nokia. :D:D:D
Jun 22 12:16:21 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: thanks
Jun 22 12:16:32 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: I'll pull in mozilla-central with git-hg and push it to garage, or would it be too big?
Jun 22 12:16:58 <MrPingu> Really that CA thread is crazy!
Jun 22 12:16:59 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: NFC, but there should be plenty of space on garage
Jun 22 12:17:26 <freemangordon> MrPingu: it is not the thread by itself ;)
Jun 22 12:17:53 <zeq_laptop> I'd like to do it that way if we can get away with it...
Jun 22 12:18:15 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: would you rephrase, i missed the point
Jun 22 12:19:36 <zeq_laptop> I'm thinking about "cloning" mozilla from mercurial then creating a git branch with out changes
Jun 22 12:19:44 <zeq_laptop> s/out/our/
Jun 22 12:19:44 <infobot> zeq_laptop meant: I'm thinking abour "cloning" mozilla from mercurial then creating a git branch with out changes
Jun 22 12:20:08 <zeq_laptop> ^ ?
Jun 22 12:20:18 <freemangordon> seems reasonable
Jun 22 12:21:01 <zeq_laptop> my regex went a bit wrong there :P
Jun 22 12:22:36 <ivgalvez> to me, only two people argueing sounds a success (at least on TMO)
Jun 22 12:22:57 <freemangordon> yeah, similar to my statement from several weeks ago "damn, this is simple, just some 500 lies of code" :D:D:D
Jun 22 12:24:21 <MrPingu> vi_, do idea #1 :D
Jun 22 12:25:04 <vi_> MrPingu: heh.
Jun 22 12:25:19 <ivgalvez> idea #2 could be fun, but you should upload a video for confirmation
Jun 22 12:25:45 <vi_> "blow the money on being blown by..."
Jun 22 12:25:52 <teotwaki> vi_: sarcastic hypocrite
Jun 22 12:26:33 <freemangordon> damn fennec build finallt ended, lets see the result
Jun 22 12:26:42 <vi_> teotwaki: are you calling me this or suggesting it as the word(s) I was looking for?
Jun 22 12:26:56 <teotwaki> vi_: That's for me to know and for you find out.
Jun 22 12:27:19 <teotwaki> Actually, closer to the second option :)
Jun 22 12:27:26 <vi_> phew.
Jun 22 12:27:31 <chem|st> Woody14619: never ever respond to abill pls
Jun 22 12:27:51 <vi_> chem|st: why you have not banned that guy yet?
Jun 22 12:27:58 <ivgalvez> who wants to respond to abill
Jun 22 12:28:15 <teotwaki> vi_: because, he's been banned a number of times
Jun 22 12:28:21 <freemangordon> chem|st: aah, all of the fun n TMO will be gone then  
Jun 22 12:28:23 <teotwaki> We even banned him back in the day I was a forum mod
Jun 22 12:28:28 <vi_> ivgalvez: everytime I do I get a nice mail from reggie.
Jun 22 12:29:49 <teotwaki> chem|st: hack the forum source code, if (/quote.*abill/gi) $_errors = "<p>Please refrain from answering to Abill</p";
Jun 22 12:30:02 <teotwaki> s/answering/replying/
Jun 22 12:30:02 <infobot> teotwaki meant: chem|st: hack the forum source code, if (/quote.*abill/gi) $_errors = "<p>Please refrain from replying to Abill</p";
Jun 22 12:31:26 <freemangordon> teotwaki: LOL
Jun 22 12:44:51 <chem|st> Woody14619: and you should stop defending something you did not agree with in the firstplace o.O
Jun 22 12:45:49 <chem|st> vi_: 1st warning then banning, for some reason he just popped up again...
Jun 22 12:54:32 <vi_> chem|st: Just permaban his troll ass.
Jun 22 12:54:45 <chem|st> teotwaki: nice idea but I wont
Jun 22 12:55:05 <vi_> He is currently demanding that the council is diisolved and re-elected after the CA 'scandal'.
Jun 22 12:55:16 <teotwaki> scandal?
Jun 22 12:55:34 <vi_> teotwaki: You do not read TMO do you?
Jun 22 12:55:37 <teotwaki> nope
Jun 22 12:55:47 <vi_> There is a thread about the CA.
Jun 22 12:55:56 <vi_> There is a lot of raeg and butthurt.
Jun 22 12:56:05 <teotwaki> vi_: I left the mod team because I didn't have time, you think if I had the time to read I didn't have the time to moderate?
Jun 22 12:56:10 <teotwaki> how come?
Jun 22 12:56:16 <teotwaki> Because some losers didn't get their sparky device?
Jun 22 12:56:40 <vi_> Because most of the maemo council won a device in the CA.
Jun 22 12:56:54 <teotwaki> Oh really? That's cute.
Jun 22 12:57:16 <zeq_laptop> is there anything special I need to do to git over ssh working on garage?
Jun 22 12:57:47 <teotwaki> I would've only applied if GeneralAntilles, MohammadAG and Jaffa were on the council, that way I would've been sure not to get one.
Jun 22 12:58:00 <teotwaki> vi_: cute, yet predictable...
Jun 22 12:58:26 <vi_> The first thing the ministers of the scottish parliment voted on was...
Jun 22 12:58:30 <vi_> ...a pay rise.
Jun 22 12:59:15 <vi_> Although it does seem unfair if the council members could not enter for a CA.
Jun 22 12:59:16 <teotwaki> The first thing Sarkozy did was cheat on his wife, knowing that as the president, nobody could sue him.
Jun 22 12:59:23 <teotwaki> (and divorce is included in "sue")
Jun 22 12:59:34 <vi_> teotwaki: is she the hot one?
Jun 22 12:59:45 <teotwaki> no, that's the one he cheated with.
Jun 22 12:59:59 <vi_> classy guy.
Jun 22 13:00:00 <teotwaki> Can't blame him though, 10 years, datass.
Jun 22 13:00:10 <teotwaki> s/years/years ago/
Jun 22 13:00:11 <infobot> teotwaki meant: Can't blame him though, 10 years ago, datass.
Jun 22 13:00:46 <MohammadAG> yay, segfault
Jun 22 13:01:04 <teotwaki> who wouldn't... http://api.ning.com/files/YXIOUqPIP00BY2A51PuFqhSy8-mvG0rjtZWqXrBKENzIHr*2LXLn65qYf4S8OKA5Ykx2vXkY6NzKWh8pSb-m3Jiy72cCPY5O/CarlaBruni4.jpg
Jun 22 13:01:19 <Neutron__> when you transfer files or tether your N900s over bluetooth, what kind of speeds do you usually get?
Jun 22 13:01:25 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: it's on line 421
Jun 22 13:01:35 <teotwaki> Neutron__: 120KB/s
Jun 22 13:01:40 <MohammadAG> yeah, even her hair's wet
Jun 22 13:02:01 <Neutron__> and your computer has a bluetooth 2.1 EDR dongle?
Jun 22 13:02:07 <Neutron__> (or built in, whatever)
Jun 22 13:02:20 <MohammadAG> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
Jun 22 13:02:20 <MohammadAG> 0x440d8390 in MWidgetController::model() const ()
Jun 22 13:02:20 <MohammadAG>    from /usr/lib/libmeegotouchcore.so.0
Jun 22 13:02:22 <MohammadAG> :/
Jun 22 13:02:38 <jonwil> bah, I am still no closer to figuring out what to do about my broken N900 :(
Jun 22 13:03:20 <vi_> jonwil: WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT?
Jun 22 13:03:25 <vi_> oops, caps.
Jun 22 13:04:05 <teotwaki> Neutron__: in any case, the 2.1 max speed is 260KB/s, isn't it?
Jun 22 13:04:31 <Neutron__> it is said to be 3Mbit, which is 384KB/s
Jun 22 13:04:32 <jonwil> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1225158#post1225158
Jun 22 13:04:41 * teotwaki has kicked vi_ ("CAPS")
Jun 22 13:04:47 <Neutron__> while 2.0 is 2.1Mbit, about 260KB/s
Jun 22 13:04:47 <jonwil> Thats my post where I explain whats wrong
Jun 22 13:05:15 <teotwaki> Neutron__: actually, I think both have a theoretical limit of 3MBit, but both only achieve 2 Mbits tops.
Jun 22 13:05:19 <zeq_laptop> I've entered my ssh public key (id_rsa.pub) onto my garage account, but cloning the repo fails with "Permission denied (publickey)"...???
Jun 22 13:05:33 <teotwaki> zeq: what happens if you just SSH into it?
Jun 22 13:05:35 <Neutron__> well, I get around 50-60KB/s when tethering with a ~5 year old laptop.. I can't find any way to figure out which version of bluetooth that laptop has
Jun 22 13:05:40 <teotwaki> zeq: ssh -vvv user@host
Jun 22 13:07:24 <MohammadAG> oh f me, I didn't init the pointer :/
Jun 22 13:08:12 <jonwil> so can anyone suggest what I should do about my phone?
Jun 22 13:08:28 <jonwil> I dont want to take it to Nokia Care who may not have the bits and even if they do will probably need to send it away for repairs
Jun 22 13:09:09 <jonwil> I have seen a site that is selling the parts I need and cheap too
Jun 22 13:09:59 <chem|st> ~seen ivgalvez
Jun 22 13:10:09 <infobot> ivgalvez <~ivgalvez@89.140.113.138.static.user.ono.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 42m 9s ago, saying: 'who wants to respond to abill'.
Jun 22 13:10:21 <jonwil> but I have no way to know if these parts are legit or not
Jun 22 13:10:25 <teotwaki> ~ping
Jun 22 13:10:25 <infobot> ~pong
Jun 22 13:10:36 <zeq_laptop> teotwaki: I get lots of debug output, not sure what exactly I'm looking for
Jun 22 13:10:58 <teotwaki> zeq_laptop: basically, check for the part where it talks about public key auth, and see if your key is being used at all
Jun 22 13:11:41 <zeq_laptop> it seems to be
Jun 22 13:11:57 <teotwaki> So it's the server refusing your key?
Jun 22 13:12:23 <zeq_laptop> shall I upload the output to pastebin?
Jun 22 13:12:27 <teotwaki> sure
Jun 22 13:14:19 <zeq_laptop> teotwaki: http://pastebin.com/UzJvB03R
Jun 22 13:17:25 <teotwaki> no diea
Jun 22 13:17:26 <teotwaki> idea
Jun 22 13:17:29 <teotwaki> everything looks legit
Jun 22 13:17:48 <jonwil> Looks like I should avoid the crappy repair places in the major shopping centers and hit up some PROPER repair shops :)
Jun 22 13:17:52 <zeq_laptop> maybe I entered the key incorrectly on garage?
Jun 22 13:18:30 <zeq_laptop> I used "xclip -sel clip < ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub", then pasted into the textbox
Jun 22 13:20:27 <chem|st> Woody14619: would you mind to talk to quim again and ask him if he got 5 n950 loaners for the council so we can close that?
Jun 22 13:21:02 <teotwaki> Isn't that going to eat out of the Qt-assigned ones?
Jun 22 13:21:37 <chem|st> no additional council-only loaners which need be given to next council
Jun 22 13:22:28 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: I remember some note when you're clonning from the garage that you should yse SSL_NO_VERIFY or something
Jun 22 13:22:50 * chem|st grabs popcorn
Jun 22 13:24:12 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: If you experience problems with 'git clone' or 'git push' please try first to set the GIT_SSL_NO_VERIFY environment variable to 1 (e.g. type export GIT_SSL_NO_VERIFY=1 in a terminal on Linux using bash).
Jun 22 13:25:32 <zeq_laptop> ok freemangordon, I'll try it
Jun 22 13:25:48 <zeq_laptop> nope
Jun 22 13:26:05 <zeq_laptop> that doesn't apply to ssh afaik
Jun 22 13:26:17 <freemangordon> there is also a note: Git access via SSH is under development. :D
Jun 22 13:26:32 <zeq_laptop> I just read it takes 15 mins to update
Jun 22 13:26:41 <freemangordon> aah, ok
Jun 22 13:26:44 <zeq_laptop> maybe that's it
Jun 22 13:26:45 <zeq_laptop> :)
Jun 22 13:26:58 <zeq_laptop> under development for two years ;)
Jun 22 13:27:17 <freemangordon> well, thats a complicated stuff, takes time :P
Jun 22 13:55:59 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: i've just uploaded my rublic key in garage, have no problem with ssh git clone
Jun 22 13:56:05 <freemangordon> *public
Jun 22 13:56:22 <freemangordon> unfortunately fennec repo is empty :D
Jun 22 14:01:10 <vi__> jonwil: ping
Jun 22 14:03:42 <jonwil> pong
Jun 22 14:04:39 <freemangordon> jonwil: while you're here - you are aware your applet is now a part of CSSU-T?
Jun 22 14:04:48 <jonwil> nice one
Jun 22 14:04:50 <freemangordon> *are you
Jun 22 14:05:01 <jonwil> no I wasnt aware of it but that's cool
Jun 22 14:05:19 <jonwil> cool that its now in an "official" CSSU release :)
Jun 22 14:05:30 <freemangordon> yeah, but we need you
Jun 22 14:05:42 <freemangordon> as it caused a lot of talk @ TMO
Jun 22 14:05:52 <jonwil> get me a link to whatever this talk is
Jun 22 14:06:08 <freemangordon> lets switch to #maemo-ssu
Jun 22 14:06:29 <jonwil> ok
Jun 22 14:08:28 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: I must be doing something wrong then :(
Jun 22 14:10:41 <Viltzu> Is there easy way to install gcc-4.4 or newer to maemo? :)
Jun 22 14:10:53 <Viltzu> hmm to scratchbox I mean.
Jun 22 14:12:16 <vi__> jonwil: The metal bezel around the screen is an absolute bitch to replace.
Jun 22 14:12:46 <vi__> If they get bent they never sit on right again.
Jun 22 14:13:04 <vi__> Thus, getting one that is not bent is neigh near impossibru.
Jun 22 14:13:58 <vi__> Depending on what country you live in, you MAY be able to convince your local Nokia service centre to get the parts in for the repair but just let you do it.
Jun 22 14:14:10 <vi__> They say they are not allowed but you may be able to convince them.
Jun 22 14:14:25 <jonwil> vi__, I found a few sites that have the needed parts for sale
Jun 22 14:14:31 <jonwil> few online sites
Jun 22 14:14:50 <jonwil> I also intend to visit some proper phone repair places (not the shitty ones in the shopping centers) tommorow to see what they have to say
Jun 22 14:15:03 <vi__> In my experiance getting parts online can lead to receiving shitty knockoffs.
Jun 22 14:15:51 <jonwil> well I intend to visit or call these places and see what they can do
Jun 22 14:16:05 <vi__> Fortunatley I have a local Nokia care centre that I have kind of built up a rapport with.
Jun 22 14:16:20 <jonwil> see whether any of em say they can fix it and if so what it would cost
Jun 22 14:16:30 <vi__> jonwil: DANGER!
Jun 22 14:16:38 <jonwil> danger what?
Jun 22 14:16:53 <freemangordon> to get an N8 as a replacement ;)
Jun 22 14:17:04 <vi__> I would'nt let any of those hamfisted chimps near my precious n900 unless you want either:
Jun 22 14:17:17 <vi__> 1.stripped screws and knockoff parts
Jun 22 14:17:21 <vi__> 2. an N8.
Jun 22 14:17:56 <jonwil> well one of the shops I will be calling did a keypad replacement on my previous phone (a Motorola Z6) and did a damn good job of it
Jun 22 14:18:10 <vi__> jonwil: fair enough.
Jun 22 14:18:47 <jonwil> Some of em do warranty repairs for various brands (not Nokia) so presumably they must be good
Jun 22 14:19:07 <jonwil> or else they wouldn't be trusted by makers like Motorola to do warranty repairs
Jun 22 14:19:21 <jonwil> but yeah I wouldn't use anyone that looked dodgy
Jun 22 14:21:12 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: she it matter if my username differs between my local user and garage? I have .ssh/config setup as described.
Jun 22 14:24:03 <Viltzu> vi__, they don't give N8s anymore 
Jun 22 14:24:19 <Viltzu> vi__, atleast two of my friends when they sent N900 to repair they got back E7.
Jun 22 14:24:59 <jonwil> I doubt Nokia would give me an N8 or an E7 or any other phone if I sent my phone in for a non-warranty repair of a N900 with a busted front bezel
Jun 22 14:25:28 <Viltzu> well that might be true :P
Jun 22 14:26:00 <vi__> I got my local nokia store to get me a new kboard for my n900.
Jun 22 14:26:22 <vi__> I went to pick it up and they were like, just give us the phone and we will fit it.
Jun 22 14:27:09 <vi__> I take one look at the 'engineer' wearing fully sythetic clothes, sitting at there 'ESD zone' bench without a wriststrap and was  like.
Jun 22 14:27:17 <vi__> 'nah, I will do it my self'
Jun 22 14:27:35 <vi__> We then had a short discussion about how it was against policy.
Jun 22 14:28:04 <vi__> Now they get some parts for me+charge labour time but let me have the bits.
Jun 22 14:28:39 <vi__> It is kinda bull, however at least I know I am getting decent quality parts unlike that piece of shit N900 kboard you can get on ebay.
Jun 22 14:29:19 <vi__> Viltzu: that is good.  E7 can be sold for more money!
Jun 22 14:30:09 <Viltzu> vi__, I know. I actually sent my N900 to repair. I had in my mind that I would sell the E7 and buy used N900 again and keep the extra money.
Jun 22 14:30:20 <Viltzu> :>
Jun 22 14:30:58 <Viltzu> But, I got my N900 back. ;u
Jun 22 14:32:24 <jonwil> I know from the Nokia service manual exactly which parts need replacement so if someone tries to tell me "the whole screen assembly has to be replaced", I will know they are probably BSing me
Jun 22 14:32:53 <Macer> jonwil: yeah. that is what sucks about repair places
Jun 22 14:33:00 <Macer> they are big bullshitters so they can make a few extra bucks
Jun 22 14:33:05 <Macer> but i suppose that is everybody huh?
Jun 22 14:33:34 <Macer> you don't pay for the work.. you pay for the knowledge.. since most people are ignorant as to the ease of repair.... they just pay
Jun 22 14:38:07 <jonwil> in my case I know exactly what parts are needed and what work needs doing, what I am paying for is someone who can get quality parts and who has the specialist tools and skills to open up the phone and repair it without damaging it
Jun 22 14:38:13 <jonwil> damaging it further that is
Jun 22 14:42:07 <vi__> HOLY.
Jun 22 14:42:10 <vi__> SHIT.
Jun 22 14:42:14 <vi__> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nokia-N950-dev-phone-/280896512893?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item4166bca37d#ht_500wt_943
Jun 22 14:42:27 <vi__> There is a compelling reason to sell your new N950.
Jun 22 14:43:27 <vi__> £920
Jun 22 14:44:50 <Hurrian> whoa, these things go fast
Jun 22 14:45:06 <vi__> Sell 5 N950s
Jun 22 14:45:18 <vi__> Enough funding for internettablettalk for the next 5 years.
Jun 22 14:47:56 <MohammadAG> it's kind of a dick move tbh
Jun 22 14:48:05 <MohammadAG> you don't want it you send it to some other dev, not ebay
Jun 22 14:48:26 <Hurrian> MohammadAG, it is a dick move, but it sure as hell is easy money
Jun 22 14:48:27 <MohammadAG> he's a nokia employee though
Jun 22 14:48:46 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, I kinda need money but I'm not selling any of the DDPs I have
Jun 22 14:48:52 <Macer> a disgruntled nokia employee heh
Jun 22 14:49:11 <Macer> MohammadAG: tbh he probably wants to ebay them to show people how awesome the n950 was
Jun 22 14:49:27 <Hurrian> Macer, I heard it's not that cool as a phone
Jun 22 14:49:28 <Macer> keeping it within the dev circle doesn't show the general population what nokia screwed them out of ;)
Jun 22 14:49:44 <Macer> Hurrian: a phone is just for talking ;)
Jun 22 14:49:48 <MohammadAG> The N9 is kinda sexier :P
Jun 22 14:50:00 <Macer> i'm sure it does well as a computer in a pocket tho
Jun 22 14:50:02 <Macer> it has xterm
Jun 22 14:50:09 <Macer> that makes it superior
Jun 22 14:50:30 <Hurrian> meh, I'll probably just grab a BT keyboard when my N9 arrives
Jun 22 14:50:32 <Macer> i mean really.. as a PHONE.. what does it need? the ability to talk and txt and mms i suppose
Jun 22 14:50:50 <MohammadAG> or just get an iPhone
Jun 22 14:51:07 <Macer> MohammadAG: i did.. it's called a lumia 900 heh
Jun 22 14:51:15 <Macer> the microsoft iphone
Jun 22 14:51:25 <MohammadAG> the iPhone is more capable than the Lumia
Jun 22 14:51:26 <Macer> i use my n900 every now and then
Jun 22 14:51:33 <MohammadAG> plus it's kinda... supported
Jun 22 14:51:38 <Macer> MohammadAG: yeah.. it probably does cool things like... properly use wifi
Jun 22 14:51:42 <Macer> :)
Jun 22 14:51:51 <MohammadAG> no, it just doesn't suck :P
Jun 22 14:52:02 <MohammadAG> Lumias are the new 3310
Jun 22 14:52:05 <Macer> nokia wants me to send my phone in because their software is only using the att dns when it swaps back to wifi
Jun 22 14:52:11 <Macer> so now i have to rma the phone
Jun 22 14:52:14 <Macer> just to get a new one back
Jun 22 14:52:16 <Macer> that has the same problem
Jun 22 14:52:17 <MohammadAG> seriously, dump the Lumia and get an iPhone
Jun 22 14:52:23 <Macer> it's probably some lame C# script
Jun 22 14:52:28 <MohammadAG> I for one stayed with Nokia not because they're Nokia
Jun 22 14:52:32 <Macer> that doesn't refresh the dns
Jun 22 14:52:44 <MohammadAG> the moment they announced the Lumia I started considering other things
Jun 22 14:52:50 <Macer> plus there is no way to manually set wifi settings
Jun 22 14:52:51 <MohammadAG> that's why I have an iPhone
Jun 22 14:52:54 <Macer> you HAVE to use dhcp
Jun 22 14:53:05 <Macer> heh
Jun 22 14:53:08 <MohammadAG> I haven't left Harmattan cause I like it, not because it's Nokia
Jun 22 14:53:09 <Macer> i wouldn't mind an e7 still
Jun 22 14:53:12 <Hurrian> Macer, aside from the UI, WP7 blows
Jun 22 14:53:21 <MohammadAG> +1, Metro's about the only good thing
Jun 22 14:53:25 <Macer> Hurrian: what else is there on a wp phone? ;)
Jun 22 14:53:32 <Hurrian> heh
Jun 22 14:53:41 <Macer> honestly other than the wifi issue.. it works great
Jun 22 14:53:45 <MohammadAG> I even paid the 99$/yr for Apple's dev program
Jun 22 14:53:48 <Macer> i have an ssh client and a gtalk client .. i'm done ;)
Jun 22 14:53:51 <MohammadAG> wonder how good the app store sells
Jun 22 14:54:07 <Hurrian> MohammadAG, put up a semi-decent app for $1.99
Jun 22 14:54:09 <Viltzu> deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian squeeze main
Jun 22 14:54:11 <Viltzu> apt-get update
Jun 22 14:54:12 <Macer> MohammadAG: well they had a good showing as far as sales
Jun 22 14:54:17 <Hurrian> your dev sub will fund itself
Jun 22 14:54:18 <Macer> even more so that they are selling them for $50 :-P
Jun 22 14:54:29 <Viltzu> The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened
Jun 22 14:54:30 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, I already have a semi decent app
Jun 22 14:54:32 <Macer> mine was pretty much free
Jun 22 14:54:38 <MohammadAG> not sure it's useful for everyone, it's useful for me at least
Jun 22 14:54:38 <Macer> they actually... PAID ME to buy it haha
Jun 22 14:54:39 <Viltzu> in Scratchbox
Jun 22 14:54:40 <Viltzu> Why?
Jun 22 14:54:55 <Hurrian> Viltzu, fakeroot apt-get update
Jun 22 14:54:59 <Macer> you got $100 off your first bill.. .and $100 in free accessories
Jun 22 14:55:01 <Viltzu> I'm root.
Jun 22 14:55:08 <Macer> and the phone was $100 :)
Jun 22 14:55:09 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, http://i39.tinypic.com/n3w50k.jpg
Jun 22 14:55:12 <Macer> wtf?
Jun 22 14:55:13 <Hurrian> oh wait, why are you using squeeze repos?
Jun 22 14:55:22 <Macer> att must be paying an arm and leg to sell these. they want their next iphone
Jun 22 14:55:26 <Viltzu> There is packages what I need :)
Jun 22 14:55:33 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, http://i39.tinypic.com/wa599g.jpg
Jun 22 14:55:37 <Viltzu> And I'm pretty sure that repo worked in N900
Jun 22 14:55:44 <Viltzu> but not working in scratchbox... 
Jun 22 14:55:46 <MohammadAG> It shows facebook checkin locations on a map
Jun 22 14:55:57 <MohammadAG> for stuff that isn't on a map, it's useful
Jun 22 14:56:08 <MohammadAG> or just use it to stalk people who checkin at their homes
Jun 22 14:56:16 <Viltzu> Hurrian, to be more specific, I need gcc 4.4 or newer.
Jun 22 14:56:33 <Hurrian> MohammadAG, that's nice - the facebook app for mobile is only semi-done
Jun 22 14:56:35 <MohammadAG> I was planning foursquare too, but I got bored with using VM
Jun 22 14:56:52 <MohammadAG> and a Mac is 15000 NIS
Jun 22 14:57:05 <MohammadAG> about $4000
Jun 22 14:57:14 <Viltzu> Oh wait hmm...
Jun 22 14:57:19 <Hurrian> MohammadAG, hackintosh does wonders
Jun 22 14:57:26 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, I only have 500GBs
Jun 22 14:57:40 <Hurrian> it boots fine from a 16GB USB stick
Jun 22 14:57:51 <Hurrian> install macfuse/tuxera-ntfs and you're set
Jun 22 14:57:58 <MohammadAG> I cba to use sticks
Jun 22 14:58:28 <MohammadAG> thinking of getting a 1TB drive
Jun 22 14:58:30 <Hurrian> meh, it's how I ran it until I got off my ass and repartitioned my drives to GPT
Jun 22 14:58:42 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, http://i49.tinypic.com/35mqnfn.jpg
Jun 22 14:58:46 <MohammadAG> GPwhat?
Jun 22 14:58:51 <beford> with a bootloader like chameleon no GPT is needed afaik
Jun 22 14:59:06 <MohammadAG> afaik you just need a GUID (?) partition table
Jun 22 14:59:11 <MohammadAG> which seems to be the norm now
Jun 22 14:59:33 <MohammadAG> or not, msdos partition table
Jun 22 14:59:43 <Hurrian> interesting, i'll go clone ML to a USB HDD later.
Jun 22 15:00:42 <Hurrian> MohammadAG, dealing with OS X in a VM is a PITA
Jun 22 15:00:58 <Hurrian> software transitions are terrible
Jun 22 15:02:34 <MohammadAG> I usually don't condone piracy but Macs are an exception
Jun 22 15:02:43 <MohammadAG> there seems to be a modified copy that allows MBR installations
Jun 22 15:03:28 <beford> win a mac on a contest, problem solved
Jun 22 15:04:44 <Hurrian> MohammadAG, it's simply an OSInstall.mpkg patch
Jun 22 15:05:00 <Hurrian> also, not installing from vanilla source is looked down upon
Jun 22 15:05:23 <Hurrian> anyways, I have a whole drive for OS X, so I just let it do it's GPT thing.
Jun 22 15:05:38 <MohammadAG> <Hurrian> also, not installing from vanilla source is looked down upon
Jun 22 15:05:40 <MohammadAG> from who?
Jun 22 15:05:53 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, I'm at uni, so I can only use a laptop
Jun 22 15:05:58 <MohammadAG> otherwise I would've bought a mac mini
Jun 22 15:07:02 <Hurrian> MohammadAG, it's a thing in the hackintosh community that installing from untouched ISO is preferred
Jun 22 15:27:33 <teotwaki> What's you guys' take on the EUFI secure boot thingie?
Jun 22 15:58:34 <hiemanshu> teotwaki: Fedora found a way to get the OS working with secure boot, other distro should too
Jun 22 15:58:48 <teotwaki> their way was to buy the right from Microsoft
Jun 22 15:58:51 <teotwaki> not really "a way"
Jun 22 16:03:37 * zeq_laptop just finished an emergency remote server rescue for a client, nice to get some paid work :)
Jun 22 16:05:12 <beford> secure boot can be disabled afaik
Jun 22 16:05:37 <beford> if you are able to change boot order to install linux I suppose you can disable that
Jun 22 16:07:14 <teotwaki> beford: you won't be able to disable it on ARM platforms
Jun 22 16:07:46 <beford> oh right arm is locked, i was thinking about x86
Jun 22 16:09:26 <zeq_laptop> such a wonderful technology
Jun 22 16:10:17 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: yeah, FOSS is a good think, unfortunately can't be eaten
Jun 22 16:10:23 <freemangordon> *thing
Jun 22 16:11:48 <hiemanshu> teotwaki: nope, it was from verisign, microsoft gets no money from that, and well $99 isnt too much
Jun 22 16:12:29 <teotwaki> hiemanshu: whether it's verisign or microsoft doesn't really matter now, does it?
Jun 22 16:12:44 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: not actually sure how much to charge, it without any notice, needed the servers back up ASAP.
Jun 22 16:13:10 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: you're a freelancer?
Jun 22 16:13:11 <zeq_laptop> should have taken the time to negotiate rate first :P
Jun 22 16:13:13 <zeq_laptop> yeah
Jun 22 16:13:40 <beford> not sure how microsoft gets away with that
Jun 22 16:14:52 <Jaffa> Woody14619: Interesting log from last week's council meeting
Jun 22 16:21:23 <GeneralAntilles> teotwaki, we'd have voted to mail you a bag of rusty nails instead. :P
Jun 22 16:24:31 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: BTW, copied over the stub issue to edit.mwkn.net for any partial enrichment over the next few days. And thanks again for your efforts whilst I was away
Jun 22 16:25:52 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, good, Sunday evenings just aren't a high-productivity time for me.
Jun 22 16:26:05 <GeneralAntilles> And no problem. You deserve a vacation more than most. ;)
Jun 22 16:33:19 <DocScrutinizer51> morning
Jun 22 16:37:02 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if ShadowJK already is swimming drowned in a lake, naked and intoxicated
Jun 22 16:37:17 <ShadowJK> not quite
Jun 22 16:38:34 <DocScrutinizer51> so I'll try to do some of the duties on your behalf now ;-P
Jun 22 16:39:12 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Feel free to copy it over yourself if you get bored during the week and have some time. No reason we should be rushing around at weekends ;-)
Jun 22 16:39:36 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, did you get my email from last week?
Jun 22 16:40:48 <DocScrutinizer51> at least the alcohol elimination I'm going to try and help
Jun 22 16:42:05 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK: I gather no parcel service today?
Jun 22 16:42:10 <freemangordon> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1225816&postcount=227
Jun 22 16:42:30 <freemangordon> What am I supposed to do with guys like that one ?!?
Jun 22 16:42:54 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: I think the garage ssh problem I'm having is with my ssh config.  Just tried it on my server, it worked fine!
Jun 22 16:43:08 <GeneralAntilles> freemangordon, mail him a notarized apology letter?
Jun 22 16:43:10 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: yeah, same here
Jun 22 16:43:23 <freemangordon> GeneralAntilles: hmm, good idea :D
Jun 22 16:43:38 <GeneralAntilles> Although that might be construed as admitting guilt
Jun 22 16:43:47 <GeneralAntilles> which would be undesirable if he sues you in small claims court.
Jun 22 16:44:14 <ShadowJK> I havent checked, but I doubt there's even regular mail today
Jun 22 16:45:36 <GeneralAntilles> Off to work.
Jun 22 16:45:47 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: nand-erase, statically linked
Jun 22 16:46:07 <freemangordon> hmm, you mean nolo?
Jun 22 16:46:13 <freemangordon> and x-loader
Jun 22 16:46:34 <DocScrutinizer51> I mean erase mtd*
Jun 22 16:46:46 <freemangordon> yeah, the same
Jun 22 16:47:03 <freemangordon> I've done once by mistake here, cold-flashing fus a fun
Jun 22 16:47:14 <freemangordon> *was
Jun 22 16:47:25 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah
Jun 22 16:47:29 <freemangordon> givven there are no instructions how to be done
Jun 22 16:48:07 <DocScrutinizer51> then just tell him he needs to cool down N900 to <10K for coldflash to work
Jun 22 16:48:25 <freemangordon> :D:D:D
Jun 22 16:50:59 <DocScrutinizer51> (no instructions) I thought somebody added a jacekowski quote to ~flqshing wiki?
Jun 22 16:51:12 <DocScrutinizer51> ~coldflash
Jun 22 16:51:13 <infobot> somebody said coldflash was http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing
Jun 22 16:51:20 <luke-jr> freemangordon: GeneralAntilles: kp50 breaks?
Jun 22 16:51:40 <freemangordon> luke-jr: It does not have errata workaround
Jun 22 16:51:50 <DocScrutinizer51> yes, but only if cold and under severe pressure
Jun 22 16:52:02 <luke-jr> O.o
Jun 22 16:52:29 <DocScrutinizer51> otherwise it just deforms elastically
Jun 22 16:52:46 <freemangordon> LMAO
Jun 22 16:55:26 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: pali: got a link for you, just need to dig it up again when at home
Jun 22 16:55:56 <freemangordon> good, what is at the other end of the link?
Jun 22 16:56:29 <DocScrutinizer51> a kernel devfel's blog post
Jun 22 16:57:14 <DocScrutinizer51> with more nice links
Jun 22 16:57:32 <freemangordon> good
Jun 22 16:57:51 <freemangordon> you have thumb errata upstreaming in mind?
Jun 22 16:57:56 <freemangordon> :P
Jun 22 16:58:19 <freemangordon> s/errata/errata workaround/
Jun 22 17:38:49 <MrPingu> freemangordon: That cow, is really a cow? How hard is it to read the first post?
Jun 22 17:42:07 <Viltzu> Tell me how to get gcc-4.4 or newer in scratchbox :|
Jun 22 17:42:54 <freemangordon> MrPingu: unfortunately, yes :(
Jun 22 17:46:42 <BCat2000> hellos
Jun 22 17:47:52 <zeq_laptop> freemangordon: Viltzu: I'll write that scratchbox/thumb/gcc-4.6+ howto as soon as I've finished building linaro-gcc.
Jun 22 17:48:02 <Woody14619> chem|st: While I agree, I'm not defending... I'm simply noting that the rules were followed.
Jun 22 17:48:02 <Viltzu> ok. ;u
Jun 22 17:48:08 <Woody14619> Jaffa: In what way?
Jun 22 17:49:49 <Woody14619> chem|st: I'm confused by your last reply.  5 N950 loaners for what?
Jun 22 17:59:20 <Macer> haha
Jun 22 17:59:34 <Macer> give me an n950 loaner!
Jun 22 17:59:41 <Macer> does the n950 support the att freq for 4G?
Jun 22 17:59:59 <Macer> *4G 
Jun 22 18:00:09 <Macer> * might not get 3G speeds
Jun 22 18:20:45 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: sure
Jun 22 18:29:52 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK: you inow tschunk?
Jun 22 18:29:57 <DocScrutinizer51> know*
Jun 22 18:30:00 <ShadowJK> nope
Jun 22 18:31:46 <Sicelo> meh .. non-booting N900 here :( 
Jun 22 18:32:57 <Viltzu> asdf rootfs full again...
Jun 22 18:33:02 <Viltzu> Sicelo, reflash?
Jun 22 18:33:05 <Sicelo> lol
Jun 22 18:33:15 <Sicelo> not so fast :D
Jun 22 18:33:49 <Viltzu> :D
Jun 22 18:33:58 <Sicelo> been wanting to do that since a while ago .. but i'm sure it will boot before i go that far
Jun 22 18:35:10 <Viltzu> What to do when rootfs is full and not sure what to delete..
Jun 22 18:35:35 <Viltzu> /usr/lib takes 166M
Jun 22 18:44:26 <NIN101> basically there ways to move "not-so-important" stuff to /home/ and symlink...
Jun 22 18:45:32 <NIN101> Viltzu: http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space
Jun 22 18:45:52 <Viltzu> Yes symlinking would be good.
Jun 22 18:46:49 <DocScrutinizer51> ~optification
Jun 22 18:46:49 <infobot> optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"
Jun 22 18:47:20 <NIN101> how true.
Jun 22 18:49:50 <Sicelo> an, NIN101 is here :)
Jun 22 18:50:21 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway it's probably a sane thing to  do a df -h *before* and after installation of any suspicious crap
Jun 22 18:50:51 <DocScrutinizer51> and have a BM backup for easy + complete rollback
Jun 22 18:51:28 <Sicelo> i think mine has been possibly corrupted by the ungraceful shutdowns i have these days. loose battery :(
Jun 22 18:51:57 <Lava_Croft> just bend the metal pins a bit
Jun 22 18:52:08 <DocScrutinizer51> now that you're already fsckd by 0% free on /, I guess a reflash is your best option
Jun 22 18:52:12 <Lava_Croft> or use some paper or whatever to make sure the batttery dont come loose
Jun 22 18:52:40 <NIN101> or boot rescue os and nuke crap away. anyway, bbl.
Jun 22 18:52:46 <Sicelo> DocScrutinizer51: i don't know where Viltzu pulled that 05 free from
Jun 22 18:53:51 <Sicelo> s/05/0%/
Jun 22 18:53:51 <infobot> Sicelo meant: DocScrutinizer51: i don't know where Viltzu pulled that 0% free from
Jun 22 18:54:03 <Viltzu> wut?
Jun 22 18:54:04 <DocScrutinizer51> *I* pulled that from "not booting" and "usr/lib needs 188MB"
Jun 22 18:54:22 <Sicelo> that's not my N900
Jun 22 18:54:28 <DocScrutinizer51> aah
Jun 22 18:57:04 <Sicelo> yeah. i believe my problem is related to unexpected shutdowns (due to battery). what i've now done is put some kitchen foil in the battery contacts to 'improve' conductivity
Jun 22 18:57:38 <DocScrutinizer51> WUT??
Jun 22 18:57:45 <Sicelo> :P
Jun 22 18:58:07 <Sicelo> bending the pins doesn't seem to be helping me 
Jun 22 18:58:22 <DocScrutinizer51> pins?
Jun 22 18:58:30 <Sicelo> battery contacts
Jun 22 18:58:37 <DocScrutinizer51> you mean the spring brackets?
Jun 22 18:58:41 <Sicelo> yeah
Jun 22 18:58:48 <Sicelo> on battery, not n900
Jun 22 18:58:53 <DocScrutinizer51> they should touch
Jun 22 18:59:20 <DocScrutinizer51> almost
Jun 22 18:59:25 <DocScrutinizer51> or actually
Jun 22 18:59:26 <Sicelo> exactly ..mine don't .. they don't seem to be springy enough :?
Jun 22 18:59:47 <DocScrutinizer51> maybe you broke them?
Jun 22 19:00:12 <Sicelo> they still look fine. 
Jun 22 19:00:30 <DocScrutinizer51> bnding both sides in with a pin seems to help, usually
Jun 22 19:01:03 <DocScrutinizer51> the two "balls" should almost touch
Jun 22 19:01:34 <Sicelo> just one quick thing.. btw what's the file in which i can enable fbcon?
Jun 22 19:01:56 <DocScrutinizer51> you need to go  behind the sring latch to bend it inwards
Jun 22 19:02:13 <Sicelo> i'll try that DocScrutinizer51 
Jun 22 19:02:20 <DocScrutinizer51> devconfig?
Jun 22 19:03:28 <Sicelo> ah, got it. /sbin/preinit , it seems
Jun 22 19:03:34 <DocScrutinizer51> mhm
Jun 22 19:03:45 <DocScrutinizer51> thanks, didn't know
Jun 22 19:05:45 <Sicelo> at least my debian still runs happily :P
Jun 22 19:05:54 <Sicelo> if only... 
Jun 22 19:06:24 <Sicelo> with the future of our repos looking bleak, i wonder
Jun 22 19:08:37 <DocScrutinizer51> meh, other devices never had any repo
Jun 22 19:09:14 <Sicelo> looks like it's dsme that requests a shutdown of my n900
Jun 22 19:09:14 <DocScrutinizer51> and we already got 25 dozen mirrors
Jun 22 19:09:29 <Sicelo> DocScrutinizer51: are those mirrors open to the public?
Jun 22 19:09:40 <DocScrutinizer51> usually
Jun 22 19:10:13 <Sicelo> got the cause of my problem .. unknown battery something
Jun 22 19:10:28 <DocScrutinizer51> haha
Jun 22 19:10:39 <DocScrutinizer51> your BSI contact borked
Jun 22 19:11:08 <DocScrutinizer51> or your BME got nausea for some reason
Jun 22 19:11:21 <Sicelo> i'm checking bsi right now
Jun 22 19:11:35 <Sicelo> those repos.. they will be public?
Jun 22 19:11:43 <DocScrutinizer51> you don't modprobe bq27k.ko for any reason?
Jun 22 19:11:59 <Sicelo> nah, not bq27..
Jun 22 19:12:10 <DocScrutinizer51> (repos) ask jacekowski, merlin1991 
Jun 22 19:12:30 <Sicelo> i know for sure my Maemo is relatively sane atm. it's just my battery that's mad :D
Jun 22 19:13:00 <DocScrutinizer51> seems we're rapidly heading towards even more 'official' alternatives for repos
Jun 22 19:13:25 <Sicelo> ah, that's a great development :)
Jun 22 19:14:52 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway, got me two Tschunk, now I'm fine. Anf off
Jun 22 19:14:58 <DocScrutinizer51> And*
Jun 22 19:15:21 <Sicelo> cya
Jun 22 19:15:23 <Sicelo> ;)
Jun 22 19:17:42 * Sicelo doesn't like the battery & contacts combo of N900 as similar ones. 
Jun 22 19:18:00 <Sicelo> the old types, eg BL-5C were so much better
Jun 22 19:28:13 <Sicelo> lol, so we're already using itt 0.o
Jun 22 19:28:15 <Sicelo> ~itt
Jun 22 19:28:15 <infobot> [itt] the forums on internettablettalk.com ( http://internettablettalk.com/forums )
Jun 22 19:41:35 <NIN101> "Paul Sleggs (vi_) will receive N950. " joke? 
Jun 22 19:42:59 <hiemanshu> NIN101: where?
Jun 22 19:43:08 <NIN101> http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Awards#Winners
Jun 22 19:44:00 <Raimu> Why'd it be a joke?
Jun 22 19:44:42 <NIN101> well, I may be wrong, but the self-nomination itself read like a joke. Also I don't remember much technical contributions.
Jun 22 19:46:58 <Sicelo> :P
Jun 22 19:49:26 <DocScrutinizer05> I couldn't care l4ess to comment on a Community Award that's so much community driven that even nominations are only allowed in form of self-nomination
Jun 22 19:50:31 <DocScrutinizer05> it's also totally obscure to me what's the expected "return of inverstment" of that CA
Jun 22 19:52:31 <NIN101> no offense, but I could basically name a few people who would deserve it more than some winners (and yes, they applied). But anyway, I know why I didn't even tried to get free aegis fun. Even if can be turned off now more or less (not folling the whole story anymore), I have principles :P. 
Jun 22 19:52:57 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Jun 22 19:53:11 <Sicelo> principles \m/
Jun 22 19:53:54 <DocScrutinizer05> esp when I take into account the incredibly poor adaption of HARM to N950 with hw kbd
Jun 22 19:55:54 <Woody14619> NIN01: You need to read what the CA was about.  It was not about technical input, coding, or the like.  Nor is there any expected "return" on any of it.  It was about PAST accomplisments in building community.
Jun 22 19:56:15 * Woody14619 gets tired of people whining about "what are they promising" and "they're not coders".
Jun 22 19:56:29 <DocScrutinizer05> __\m/__\m/__\m/__
Jun 22 19:56:51 <DocScrutinizer05> ( ^^ barbwire)
Jun 22 19:56:56 <Woody14619> You want a coding awards, go to CC, QT5, or other coding competitions.
Jun 22 19:57:03 <Woody14619> Lol. :) Cute doc. :)
Jun 22 19:57:12 <Woody14619> Is that to keep me out, you in, or both? ;)
Jun 22 19:58:16 <DocScrutinizer05> that's to secure my principles
Jun 22 19:59:11 <DocScrutinizer05> putting money into sth you don't expect *anything* from, seems ... absolutely fool action
Jun 22 19:59:52 <NIN101> Woody14619: Ok. But the way vi_ talks with people (esp. newbies) let's me think that he doesn't deserve one, to put it bluntly. 
Jun 22 19:59:55 <DocScrutinizer05> even millionairs giving away their whole fortune do that as they hope to at least feel better afterwards
Jun 22 20:00:43 <DocScrutinizer05> this CA has *no* visible benefit, in my book
Jun 22 20:01:03 <DocScrutinizer05> except maybe for Nokia, to pollish their image a tiny itsy teeny bit
Jun 22 20:01:22 <DocScrutinizer05> and to clean out their rubbish store
Jun 22 20:01:23 <Woody14619> Someone else said something similar.. about how giving bonuses at work for past work is also foolish.  Do you agree on that?
Jun 22 20:01:44 <Woody14619> Frankly, it's the same thing... an award for past performance.... 
Jun 22 20:01:52 <Woody14619> But companies do that all the time...
Jun 22 20:02:07 <DocScrutinizer05> no, I think that's a sane thing to increase moral in your employee crew, and to strengthen identification
Jun 22 20:02:12 <Woody14619> And it seems to work pretty well in some areas.  
Jun 22 20:02:22 <Woody14619> And you don't see that working here in the same way?
Jun 22 20:02:30 <DocScrutinizer05> no way
Jun 22 20:02:31 <vi__> So you think I am a jerk?
Jun 22 20:02:34 <vi__> Thats ok.
Jun 22 20:03:13 <Woody14619> That giving a "bonus" to those that promoted community will not inspire them to continue that work, maybe even in the new community their new device gives them access into now?
Jun 22 20:03:14 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: don't try to be jerkish, that's my domain ;-P
Jun 22 20:04:00 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: for now it doesn't seem like council at large sees GARM as any significant part of community at all
Jun 22 20:04:05 <DocScrutinizer05> HARM even
Jun 22 20:04:06 <Woody14619> I think it has a better chance than not... given the recipients (minus one or two, but then I was 100% on with my votes vs the final count. ;)
Jun 22 20:04:26 <NIN101> Woody14619: Can we see the rationals behind each decision? 
Jun 22 20:04:34 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Jun 22 20:04:53 <DocScrutinizer05> NIN101: I doubt council is fully aware of that
Jun 22 20:04:55 <Woody14619> doc: Do you think that will change, now that 4 of 5 council have a harmattan device?
Jun 22 20:05:08 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly? no
Jun 22 20:05:08 <Woody14619> Nin101:  Can I see you tax return?
Jun 22 20:05:16 <NIN101> aha. ok. cool.
Jun 22 20:05:58 <Woody14619> Frankly, the process we uses was laid out in the mess of a thread on TMO...
Jun 22 20:06:17 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: particularly since HARM is waaaay more a walking dead than maemo will ever be
Jun 22 20:06:21 <Woody14619> If you're interested in process, and lists, and what not, go read that.
Jun 22 20:07:10 <Woody14619> In some ways, that could be argued.  But even the black sheep of the family is still family...
Jun 22 20:07:30 <_|Nix|_> Hey! I'm trying to get host mode working on my N810. I have a Nokia CA-157 cable and a USB stick. I tried to install usb-otg-plugin and place the device into host mode using it. However, when I plug the stick into the cable, nothing happens.
Jun 22 20:07:36 * Sicelo is also rather surprised that no return at all is expected from CA programme. Then again, it's done :P
Jun 22 20:07:40 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: ...and luring devels away from maemo5 towards and into HARM already did incredible damage to maemo5 community
Jun 22 20:08:02 <_|Nix|_> Don't I need some kernel modules or something? Like, usb_storage or something?
Jun 22 20:08:05 * Woody14619 knows.... trust me...  There are TMO threads full of me screaming about just that.
Jun 22 20:08:10 <DocScrutinizer05> so I'm basically fine with council ignoring HARM, and I don't see this changing anyway
Jun 22 20:09:02 <_|Nix|_> Also, I'm not convinced that usb-otg-plugin is doing its job, because /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode reads "UNDEFINED".
Jun 22 20:09:11 <DocScrutinizer05> _|Nix|_: try PC connectivity manager, or USB hostmode
Jun 22 20:09:30 <Woody14619> I'll note, on TMO I said as much.. That I was excited and sad to give N9 to top devels.  Excited to see what becomes of it (and how it could unite the communities), and sad because we are losing some resources (even if they split time, it's still a loss over all)
Jun 22 20:09:38 <DocScrutinizer05> _|Nix|_: I don't think automatic switching to host mode works on N810
Jun 22 20:09:57 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: I'm trying to switch manually with usb-otg-plugin.
Jun 22 20:10:15 <DocScrutinizer05> never heard of that
Jun 22 20:10:34 <Estel_> who said we're going to sue harm there?
Jun 22 20:10:42 <Estel_> I'm going to put Mer as soon as I receive it
Jun 22 20:10:53 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: OK ... I've heard of "hostmode" - where do I get it?
Jun 22 20:10:55 <Estel_> even considering that Mer adaptation for N9/50 isn't as good as for N900 ;)
Jun 22 20:11:06 <DocScrutinizer05> mompls
Jun 22 20:11:08 <Estel_> seriously though, harmattan is just another branch of Maemo Community
Jun 22 20:11:10 <Estel_> as BNF kernel was
Jun 22 20:11:14 <Estel_> or CSSU is
Jun 22 20:11:14 * DocScrutinizer05 snatches his N810
Jun 22 20:11:17 <Estel_> or CSSU-thumb is
Jun 22 20:11:27 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: Thanks for helping ...
Jun 22 20:13:03 <Woody14619> Estel_, Mer, Harmattan, reguardless and N9/N950 can't run Fremantle.  Attention will be diverted.  
Jun 22 20:13:10 <vi__> People are pretty upset that these 'dev kits' are being squandered on scum like me.
Jun 22 20:13:28 <Estel_> vi_, honestly, not very much
Jun 22 20:13:28 <vi__> Has no one realised the N9 is the ultimate N9 dev kit?
Jun 22 20:13:32 <Estel_> we've, literally, 4 jerks
Jun 22 20:13:38 <Estel_> screaming loudly
Jun 22 20:13:40 <Estel_> on TMO
Jun 22 20:13:42 <Woody14619> And is it me, or does using the abbriviation "harm" for harmattan seem more fitting, given Aires rants in TMO recently?
Jun 22 20:13:44 <DocScrutinizer05> _|Nix|_: I got "advanced power settings" which is a battery icon in systray. It has a switched "host"/"OTG" under "USB" menu item
Jun 22 20:13:44 <Estel_> and pretending that they're an army.
Jun 22 20:13:56 <vi__> Which you can request from noka as a developer.
Jun 22 20:14:02 <Estel_> yea
Jun 22 20:14:23 <Estel_> vi_, You got x votes out of x council members, so rest assured ;)
Jun 22 20:14:36 <DocScrutinizer05> "Advanced Power 0.4.1-6" "Advanced Power Monitor 0.5.1-6"
Jun 22 20:14:37 <Estel_> Woody14619, Aries is really hopeless
Jun 22 20:14:49 <vi__> Estel_: shhhh.  I do actually feel a little guilty.
Jun 22 20:14:52 <Estel_> guy leaving harmattan as soon as Nokia announce it's really dead...
Jun 22 20:15:01 <Estel_> ...but running for Council 3 weeks ago
Jun 22 20:15:20 <Woody14619> and claiming that by insulting him I'm insulting the community... I know.. :P
Jun 22 20:15:26 <Estel_> ...that seems to be absolutely unpenetrable by simple answer "Ca doesn't have anything to do with future promises"...
Jun 22 20:15:30 <Estel_> yea
Jun 22 20:15:33 <Woody14619> He got quite a bit of ego, I'll give him that much.
Jun 22 20:15:37 <Estel_> BTw, in Harm world, he is barely known
Jun 22 20:15:45 <Woody14619> lol
Jun 22 20:15:48 <Estel_> sounds like harm have their own abil_uk
Jun 22 20:15:52 <DocScrutinizer05> _|Nix|_: you're still here?
Jun 22 20:16:11 <Estel_> vi_, no worries, You're going to pay for receiving N950 :P
Jun 22 20:16:14 <Woody14619> and with that.. I'm back to doing minutes so I can avoid it on the weekend. ;)
Jun 22 20:16:20 <vi__> Can the council not get abill permabanned?
Jun 22 20:16:25 <Estel_> I've already written, that any bastard complaining, that he havem't got device, can write Pm to You...
Jun 22 20:16:41 <Estel_> and you will volunteer to reply him where he can put his complains and how to smoke it
Jun 22 20:16:50 <Estel_> vi_, we can't. TMO is Reggie thing
Jun 22 20:17:00 <Estel_> ask chem|st about that, he is supermoderator
Jun 22 20:17:12 <Estel_> he got device too, he could at least do one favor for the communitym and ban abil :P
Jun 22 20:17:24 <Estel_> Woody14619, take Your time
Jun 22 20:17:37 <Raimu> vi__: Hey, congrats on winning. Your text was humorous. I do notice you blast a lot of memes over at TMO, but mostly it's all good by me. :3
Jun 22 20:17:47 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: Rebooting as requested by the installation of advanced-power.
Jun 22 20:17:59 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: ... Nokia hands ...
Jun 22 20:18:04 <vi__> Raimu: Thank you.
Jun 22 20:18:13 <Sicelo> qgil has been asking for a while now for a vision/direction of where we want to go. /me wonders if he has got any responses yet
Jun 22 20:18:42 <Estel_> Sicelo, where we want to go with what?
Jun 22 20:18:45 <vi__> Sicelo: back to internettablettalk domain with debian style repos for all the devices.
Jun 22 20:18:50 <Raimu> Nokia hands is much nicer when you kill the sound from the video file and make it play at 60FPS. :D
Jun 22 20:18:56 <Estel_> I can suggest him few` new employers, but I'm sure he will manage to do it himself
Jun 22 20:19:14 <Estel_> It starts to look like one hand open and another showing middle finger?
Jun 22 20:19:26 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: Mine says "Unknown mode" under USB and it's grayed out. Do I need some kind of special kernel?
Jun 22 20:19:27 <DocScrutinizer05> _|Nix|_: in PC Connectivit ymanager in settings panel you find - under "network manager" "USB" a menu with "mass storage", "network", and "Host Mode"
Jun 22 20:19:33 <Raimu> vi__: Also, you're definitely much more help than hindrance by all accounts, so by all means a prize deserved.
Jun 22 20:19:47 <DocScrutinizer05> _|Nix|_: (special kernel) not afaik
Jun 22 20:19:49 <Estel_> vi_, Reggie isn't interested in hosating forum for independent community without big company paying bills.
Jun 22 20:19:58 <Estel_> ironically, Nemein is much more willing to participate
Jun 22 20:20:16 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: What is "PC connectivity manager"?
Jun 22 20:20:34 <vi__> who is reggie?
Jun 22 20:20:43 <vi__> I know of him but who is his employer?
Jun 22 20:20:48 <vi__> Is he a volunteer?
Jun 22 20:20:57 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jun 22 20:21:14 <DocScrutinizer05> _|Nix|_: an app
Jun 22 20:21:16 <vi__> Is it his webserver?
Jun 22 20:21:22 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jun 22 20:21:33 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: So I probably need to install that.
Jun 22 20:21:36 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik
Jun 22 20:21:40 <vi__> Nokia pay him to use it?
Jun 22 20:21:54 <DocScrutinizer05> I think Nokia pays some of the expense
Jun 22 20:22:02 <vi__> Who pays the rest?
Jun 22 20:22:08 <DocScrutinizer05> NFC
Jun 22 20:22:11 <DocScrutinizer05> who cares?
Jun 22 20:22:13 <Estel_> vi_, 
Jun 22 20:22:17 <vi__> HAH!
Jun 22 20:22:20 <Estel_> Reggie is guy who formed internettablettalk
Jun 22 20:22:27 <vi__> Estel_: I assumed that.
Jun 22 20:22:38 <vi__> Will he let is have the domain name?
Jun 22 20:22:39 <Estel_> vi_, he, rfeportedly, gets ncioe contract with Nokia
Jun 22 20:22:45 <Estel_> i.e. he get more than needed to pay bills ;)
Jun 22 20:22:51 <Estel_> but, not to clal him full time worker
Jun 22 20:23:09 <Estel_> anyway, it seems for him, that having Nokia funding is much more profitable than adverts.
Jun 22 20:23:10 <vi__> web hosting costs like £60 per year.
Jun 22 20:23:16 <Estel_> well, it's going to end, anyway, pretty doon
Jun 22 20:23:21 <Estel_> s/doon/soon/
Jun 22 20:23:23 <infobot> Estel_ meant: well, it's going to end, anyway, pretty soon
Jun 22 20:23:28 <vi__> For a 'full fat' service.
Jun 22 20:23:33 <Estel_> vi_,, such huge thing little more, but, anyway
Jun 22 20:23:49 <Estel_> probably, You need to add one 0 to get sum he's getting ;)
Jun 22 20:24:07 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: in belarus?
Jun 22 20:24:07 <Estel_> (disclaimer - it was pure assumption from my side)
Jun 22 20:24:20 <Estel_> lol
Jun 22 20:24:29 <vi__> Point is, I could host the forum on my webserver. (rented from bluehost)
Jun 22 20:24:36 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: wut?
Jun 22 20:24:54 <DocScrutinizer05> for 10..15EUR you get a weak vserver here
Jun 22 20:25:02 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: Imma fae scotland pal.
Jun 22 20:25:03 <DocScrutinizer05> in EU
Jun 22 20:25:28 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: I am talking about a full fat, no limits all the bells and whistles web server.
Jun 22 20:25:36 <DocScrutinizer05> nozt that tmo was really hardened against any DoS attack
Jun 22 20:26:04 <vi__> A client pays me for it to host their site.
Jun 22 20:26:26 <DocScrutinizer05> uhuh, with how many hits per day?
Jun 22 20:26:38 <vi__> I dunno, like 10.
Jun 22 20:26:47 <DocScrutinizer05> :nos:
Jun 22 20:26:54 <DocScrutinizer05> tmo might have 10k/d
Jun 22 20:27:02 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: so.
Jun 22 20:27:17 <DocScrutinizer05> plus 100k attacks
Jun 22 20:27:21 <vi__> At £60 a year I will expect them to handle it.
Jun 22 20:27:27 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Jun 22 20:27:44 <vi__> The point is we have resources.
Jun 22 20:27:48 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: Well, I found it, but when I click on the PC connectivity icon in the status bar, it still has a checkbox next to USB file storage.
Jun 22 20:28:24 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: And when I look at the advanced power thing, it still says "Unknown mode" under USB.
Jun 22 20:28:34 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: Maybe I should reboot and try again.
Jun 22 20:28:59 <DocScrutinizer05> _|Nix|_: dunno, I just recall there were like 3 apps, with 2 of them borked after 2008 OS update, and one should still work
Jun 22 20:29:21 <DocScrutinizer05> pc connectivity manager has a plugin for settings page
Jun 22 20:29:40 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: That's where I went. I chose host mode from the dropdown, save, apply.
Jun 22 20:29:56 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, froze my N810 for ~20s
Jun 22 20:30:11 <DocScrutinizer05> so I guess it tried to do sth
Jun 22 20:31:03 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry I last time played with all that stuff like 3 years ago
Jun 22 20:31:08 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: OK - it turned on my USB stick this time, so maybe it did something right.
Jun 22 20:31:20 <DocScrutinizer05> :-D
Jun 22 20:31:26 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: Me too, but I'm looking for a cheap Web server until my Raspberry PI arrives ...
Jun 22 20:31:44 <Venemo_N9> hey guys
Jun 22 20:32:05 <Woody14619> vi__: To clarify, Reggie has noted he's happy to provide us with a dump and full configs for the server TMO runs on.
Jun 22 20:33:01 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: Well, slap me around and call me Suzy! It worked!
Jun 22 20:33:16 <Woody14619> vi__: The issue is the cost of hosting it.  I can tell you for 60lb/year, you'll get about 2 days of service before they cite their usage policy and either boot you or demand more money. :)
Jun 22 20:33:17 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Jun 22 20:33:23 <_|Nix|_> DocScrutinizer05: Thanks 1e6 for your help!
Jun 22 20:33:27 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Jun 22 20:33:48 * _|Nix|_ go try it with the real thing now (SATA drive enclosure instead of USB stick).
Jun 22 20:34:08 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Jun 22 20:34:19 <DocScrutinizer05> not with USB vbus power
Jun 22 20:34:31 <vi__> Woody14619: well.  I just want to do my bit.
Jun 22 20:34:45 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc the N810 can deliver scarce 100mA
Jun 22 20:35:01 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: 100mA!!!!
Jun 22 20:35:18 <vi__> DUMP THE WARP CORE.
Jun 22 20:35:24 <vi__> That is too much power,
Jun 22 20:35:29 <Venemo_N9> lol
Jun 22 20:35:30 <vi__> ^,/.
Jun 22 20:35:38 <Woody14619> Though honestly, bluehost (and others) have lots of options for higher use systems like TMO, and it's not super expensive, all said.
Jun 22 20:36:17 <vi__> Some other forums I use have adverts.
Jun 22 20:36:21 <Woody14619> We're talking more 30/month vs 60/year, but even that is far less than it was, say 5 years ago..
Jun 22 20:36:31 <vi__> Not shit loads of them, just one at the top and one at the bottom.
Jun 22 20:36:54 <DocScrutinizer05> well, for 30EUR a month you get a decent server
Jun 22 20:36:59 <vi__> I dont mind, I turn ABP off for those forums.
Jun 22 20:37:23 * Woody14619 nods.
Jun 22 20:37:24 <DocScrutinizer05> with real mysql and all the shite
Jun 22 20:37:25 <vi__> Is there anyone from the netherlands here?
Jun 22 20:37:53 <DocScrutinizer05> I once offered to pay those 30 bucks
Jun 22 20:38:46 * Woody14619 stays away from netherlands... (too many crabs)
Jun 22 20:38:47 <DocScrutinizer05> but some dudes thought it's just a game to administrate, and I should just give them root so they can hand oit to whonmever volunteers
Jun 22 20:39:13 <vi__> did 'itsnotabigtruck' create the 'inception' hax?
Jun 22 20:39:17 <DocScrutinizer05> and that's never been the deal
Jun 22 20:39:25 <freemangordon> vi_: yes
Jun 22 20:39:47 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, also you can never give these kind of people access to the reboot button, they press it zillion times a day
Jun 22 20:39:48 <vi__> So HE haxed aegis?
Jun 22 20:39:57 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: yep, kinda. Though I'd claim it's been javispedro who actually invented it
Jun 22 20:40:03 <Woody14619> Really, keeping TMO afloat would be pretty simple.  A paypal account and another mod or two to volunteer, and you're done.
Jun 22 20:40:29 * vi__ cracks open a cold can.
Jun 22 20:40:38 <Woody14619> The costly ones to keep up are the builders and the repos.  CPU & traffic on those sucks the $$$.
Jun 22 20:40:59 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Jun 22 20:41:02 <vi__> Woody14619: can we not move to a local build dydtem?
Jun 22 20:41:07 <vi__> ^system
Jun 22 20:41:18 <freemangordon> Woody14619: if we are allowed to have what is needed for autobuilder
Jun 22 20:41:28 <vi__> have people build packages on their local machine and upload the packages or something?
Jun 22 20:41:46 <Woody14619> Sure... but it's a bit more scattered that way.  And there's the issue of getting the distributables needed.
Jun 22 20:41:57 <freemangordon> otherwise what vi__ is saying remains the only option
Jun 22 20:42:37 <Woody14619> We actually have that prett covered in OBS freemangordon... 
Jun 22 20:42:50 <freemangordon> we were discussing something like that with merlin1991, fortunately he has all of the stuff neded
Jun 22 20:43:06 <Woody14619> Assuming we can get that off the ground before the mower comes.
Jun 22 20:43:09 <freemangordon> Woody14619: which is in the same boat as maemo, ain't?
Jun 22 20:43:14 <vi__> wait, I thought eyes and itsnotabigtruck already had N9?  How else are they devloping there things?
Jun 22 20:43:36 <vi__> ^there/their
Jun 22 20:43:39 <freemangordon> vi__, by using the simulator in Qt SDK
Jun 22 20:43:47 <freemangordon> :P
Jun 22 20:43:58 <vi__> he haxed aegis in the qt simulator??
Jun 22 20:44:05 <vi__> 0_0
Jun 22 20:44:06 <Woody14619> Yes and no... If we get it packaged up, then it's quite portable.  Yes, it has the same issue with the EULA, so whomever houses it has to EULA to get the stuff on their local machine to build (same as private build setups are now)
Jun 22 20:44:11 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: who gives a shit?
Jun 22 20:44:25 <freemangordon> vi__: of course not, he has a device
Jun 22 20:44:34 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: because the CA shitstorm has me kinda bummed out.
Jun 22 20:44:42 <vi__> ^bummed me out.
Jun 22 20:44:56 <DocScrutinizer05> CA pissed me off
Jun 22 20:45:02 * Woody14619 avoids that for today... too much else going on, and frankly, it's friday... 
Jun 22 20:45:07 <vi__> everything pisses you off.
Jun 22 20:45:18 <DocScrutinizer05> esp since somebody claimed those who got a loaner may not receive a gift
Jun 22 20:45:36 <vi__> liberals, weak pullups, etc.
Jun 22 20:46:49 <DocScrutinizer05> and particularly from the very moment it started to feel like the new king is throwing gold on his people
Jun 22 20:47:09 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: steady on.
Jun 22 20:47:10 <Woody14619> Doc, that was a given before the contest even happened.  And frankly, people were told that when they applied. Nobody picked was given a device if they had won one (or loaned one) from a previous competition or program.
Jun 22 20:47:25 <Woody14619> Those rules came with the CA.
Jun 22 20:47:50 <DocScrutinizer05> so what? does it make the rule more sane?
Jun 22 20:49:01 <Woody14619> Well, I don't make the rules... just reporting them. :)
Jun 22 20:49:29 <DocScrutinizer05> plus IIRC the rule didn't even mention any excemt when you broke, lost, or gave back your loaner
Jun 22 20:49:35 <Woody14619> Personally, I'd have prefered not to been involved in the whole process. :)
Jun 22 20:49:55 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly like me
Jun 22 20:50:02 * Woody14619 nods
Jun 22 20:50:07 <Venemo_N9> so, what'll happen to maemo.org
Jun 22 20:50:22 <DocScrutinizer05> it will die after two more CA events
Jun 22 20:50:47 <DocScrutinizer05> dissolve on e one gigantic troll explosion
Jun 22 20:50:55 <Venemo_N9> CA?
Jun 22 20:51:05 <Woody14619> That's not a known yet.  There's even a slim chance funding will extend to 2013, based on release contracts in India/Asia...
Jun 22 20:51:07 <freemangordon> aah, not again :P
Jun 22 20:52:04 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: that won't stop the trolls raid all over "the community", with useless threads with flamewars about CA rules and how shitty the winners are
Jun 22 20:52:19 <Woody14619> But the only thing we know for sure now is through end of the year.  Anything after that is crystal ball gazing.
Jun 22 20:52:21 <DocScrutinizer05> two more CA and maemo.org is dead
Jun 22 20:52:25 <DocScrutinizer05> the community
Jun 22 20:52:40 <Woody14619> Happily, I don't think there will be another.
Jun 22 20:52:54 <DocScrutinizer05> pfooooh, God gracious
Jun 22 20:52:58 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: you asked what is the added value.
Jun 22 20:53:05 <freemangordon> for Nokia I mean
Jun 22 20:53:12 <DocScrutinizer05> probably exactly that?
Jun 22 20:53:20 <Woody14619> More shelf space in a warehouse? ;)
Jun 22 20:53:21 <freemangordon> ;)
Jun 22 20:53:24 <NIN101> lol. 
Jun 22 20:55:01 <vi__> hah.
Jun 22 20:55:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and pretty please no more CA at beginning of a council term!!!
Jun 22 20:56:26 <DocScrutinizer05> it just feels too much like USA president election funding
Jun 22 20:56:43 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: There was no other option AIUI, the previous council was an one man show
Jun 22 20:57:49 <freemangordon> yuo can imagne the shitload SD69 would'd had if he was to decide the winners alone
Jun 22 20:58:28 <freemangordon> aah, finally, fennec .deb is ready
Jun 22 20:59:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I think it's been a terrible idea all together. Council should've kept the whole pool of devices for handing them out to active developers who need a replacement or a loaner, on council's very own discretion, at any time due
Jun 22 20:59:44 <DocScrutinizer05> even maybe try to swap several of them for new N900, on ebay or where ever
Jun 22 20:59:56 <ds3> and why isn't there a hardware development category?
Jun 22 21:00:09 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq
Jun 22 21:00:22 <ds3> i mean for the contest 
Jun 22 21:00:31 <DocScrutinizer05> because I would win all the prices, except the one for blueled and his pimped N810
Jun 22 21:00:39 <DocScrutinizer05> X-P
Jun 22 21:00:53 <freemangordon> well, I remember that guy on #beagle that told me to replace the SoC :D:D:D
Jun 22 21:01:03 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Jun 22 21:01:12 <ds3> what's wrong with the idea of replacing the SoC?
Jun 22 21:01:18 <DocScrutinizer05> welll
Jun 22 21:01:27 <freemangordon> yeah, to put a new one to have stable thumb2 :D
Jun 22 21:01:43 <freemangordon> ds3: nothing?
Jun 22 21:01:47 <ds3> esp. if the new one is a GP part
Jun 22 21:02:13 <DocScrutinizer05> nothing really, except our most experienced engineers at openmoko killed 3 out of 4 devices by doing just that, on quite easy prototypes that had no crowded motherboard
Jun 22 21:02:20 <freemangordon> mhm, and especially if you don;t need phone calls
Jun 22 21:02:36 <ds3> DocScrutinizer05: were they doing it themselves?
Jun 22 21:02:51 <DocScrutinizer05> no, they used tools
Jun 22 21:03:01 <ds3> but they were doing it themselves
Jun 22 21:03:16 <ds3> vs having folks who are familiar with the process do it
Jun 22 21:03:22 <vi__> ds3: themselves where qualified engineers.
Jun 22 21:03:35 <ds3> vi__: soldering folks are different from design folks
Jun 22 21:03:38 <vi__> Not imaginary wizards who can reball a chip.
Jun 22 21:03:47 <DocScrutinizer05> WTF do you thin professional EE staff at a phone manuf company is "used to do"??
Jun 22 21:04:00 <vi__> ds3: I know, we look down on them!
Jun 22 21:04:02 <ds3> I have had 100% success swapping out POP's with my CM
Jun 22 21:04:04 <DocScrutinizer05> or "familliar with"?
Jun 22 21:04:32 <ds3> there is a certain knack/practice needed to swap out POPs 
Jun 22 21:04:50 <ds3> if this is their first POP rework, 1/4 isn't too bad
Jun 22 21:05:25 <DocScrutinizer05> hell, ATM we get around 50% yield on professional reflow, for GTA04
Jun 22 21:05:47 <ds3> *shrug*
Jun 22 21:07:03 <ds3> and builds of a certain other open project had yeilds of like 40% at one point
Jun 22 21:07:38 <ds3> what might be more interesting is getting Harmatten or Freemantle going on the Galaxy Nexus
Jun 22 21:07:59 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Jun 22 21:08:01 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
Jun 22 21:08:15 <ds3> the extra memory on there would be nice
Jun 22 21:08:30 <DocScrutinizer05> the extra complexity on cellmo too
Jun 22 21:09:00 <DocScrutinizer05> and on power management, and on GFX
Jun 22 21:09:19 <ds3> the stock android stuff seems to do okay on the PM
Jun 22 21:09:39 <DocScrutinizer05> :shrug:
Jun 22 21:09:46 <DocScrutinizer05> then use android!
Jun 22 21:09:47 <ds3> Linux GFX support for that chip is available... tricky with the version but available
Jun 22 21:09:50 <ds3> android blows
Jun 22 21:10:48 <DocScrutinizer05> I know one thing for sure: there's no RIL availale for maemo
Jun 22 21:11:19 <DocScrutinizer05> since that's not how maemo works
Jun 22 21:11:48 <DocScrutinizer05> so have fun with RE of libisi and stuff
Jun 22 21:12:09 <ds3> the source for the RIL might be available
Jun 22 21:12:19 <ds3> haven't searched the whole tree
Jun 22 21:12:22 <DocScrutinizer05> there IS NO RIL
Jun 22 21:12:25 <DocScrutinizer05> on maemo
Jun 22 21:12:30 <ds3> I know
Jun 22 21:12:45 <ds3> the sources for the RIL should provide hints as to what needs to be poked to setup calls, etc
Jun 22 21:13:03 <ds3> worse comese to worse, it be comes more like the N800 but faster CPU. I can live w/o a local 3G modem
Jun 22 21:13:15 <DocScrutinizer05> and that helps how? when you don't know the API of the lib?
Jun 22 21:13:31 <DocScrutinizer05> tzzz
Jun 22 21:14:58 <DocScrutinizer05> fine, so now we're from N900-it's-NOT-a-phone maemo to "android sucks" to N800-like ubuntu, or what?
Jun 22 21:15:33 <ds3> I have never used the N900 voice capabilities. 
Jun 22 21:15:49 <DocScrutinizer05> that's clearly *your* problem
Jun 22 21:15:50 <ds3> so lack of phone just isn't an issue as far as I am concern
Jun 22 21:16:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd not invest my time to port 60% of maemo to another phone, to use it as PDA
Jun 22 21:16:31 <ds3> I just want a decent UI with code behind it that isn't design to steal information.
Jun 22 21:16:37 <vi__> ~ril
Jun 22 21:16:37 <infobot> i guess ril is Remain in Light, a Talking Heads album featuring them at the peak of their Eno-ness
Jun 22 21:16:43 <vi__> wtf
Jun 22 21:16:51 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05> there IS NO RIL
Jun 22 21:16:57 <vi__> ^DAFUQ this means?
Jun 22 21:17:16 <vi__> ds3: have you tried symbian?
Jun 22 21:17:27 <ds3> vi__: no, no interest.
Jun 22 21:17:42 <DocScrutinizer05> https://github.com/aferre/u300-ril
Jun 22 21:17:51 <ds3> I just want a UI on a tablet that works.
Jun 22 21:18:18 <ds3> and android doesn't cut it. let along all the questionable code in there written to allow outside intrusions
Jun 22 21:20:01 <vi__> ds3: then there is literally nothing else available.
Jun 22 21:20:18 <vi__> ds3: Have you tried wp7?
Jun 22 21:20:48 <Macer> heh
Jun 22 21:20:49 <ds3> vi__: think so... at stores. not useable.
Jun 22 21:20:55 <Macer> ds3: that's india's doing!
Jun 22 21:21:01 <Macer> android does suck... i have a transformer :-/
Jun 22 21:21:04 <ds3> the n900 UI is the only one that is useable
Jun 22 21:21:05 <Macer> it's awful
Jun 22 21:21:11 <Macer> yeah.. it sure is
Jun 22 21:21:16 <Macer> i wish i could put maemo on my transformer
Jun 22 21:21:19 <Macer> :(
Jun 22 21:21:27 <Macer> or something.. anything else other than android
Jun 22 21:21:35 <Macer> i was making the attempt a while back but couldn't figure it out
Jun 22 21:21:39 <Sicelo> WP8 maybe
Jun 22 21:21:42 <Macer> i should look into mer and see 
Jun 22 21:21:46 <ds3> on Fremantle, is the UI a customized matchbox or ? 
Jun 22 21:21:48 <Macer> i think it's just windows 8 ;)
Jun 22 21:22:28 * ShadowJK was thinking of getting a transformer
Jun 22 21:23:40 <SpeedEvil> I was idly wondering about http://www.wopadusa.com/store/8/wopad-i9-9-7-rk-3066-dual-core-arm-cortex-a9-1-4ghz-cpu-ips-screen-tablet/
Jun 22 21:24:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ds3: yes, matchbox, iirc
Jun 22 21:25:55 <ds3> DocScrutinizer05: Hmmm. I'll need to debug more then. I made a copy of the filesystem and running matchbox from a chroot gives me something very different
Jun 22 21:26:13 <Macer> don't
Jun 22 21:26:18 <Macer> the transformer sucks
Jun 22 21:26:36 <Macer> unless you get an older one and figure out how to put kde active on it
Jun 22 21:26:47 <Macer> which from what i understand IS possible but i just don't have the skills :-/
Jun 22 21:26:59 <Macer> i'm waiting for an easy image or something to do it
Jun 22 21:27:26 <Sicelo> ds3: of course it's different. it's hildon on maemo, not matchbox per se .. although the concept is the same
Jun 22 21:27:28 <Macer> i'd give anything to put something other than android on this transformer
Jun 22 21:27:46 <Sicelo> where matchbox doesnt' allow multiple visible windows
Jun 22 21:27:59 <SpeedEvil> Then there is the thorny issue of do you still want to run android apps on it.
Jun 22 21:28:06 <Macer> no
Jun 22 21:28:07 <Macer> i don't
Jun 22 21:28:20 <Macer> if i can run xterm, ssh, and chromium, and have a gtalk client... i'm sold
Jun 22 21:28:26 <Macer> i'm more curious how it would manage the power tho
Jun 22 21:28:32 <DocScrutinizer05> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo  >>It uses the Matchbox window manager, and the GTK-based Hildon framework as its GUI and application framework.<<
Jun 22 21:28:35 <Macer> which seems to be .... usually what breaks ;)
Jun 22 21:28:46 <Macer> when not running a stock OS
Jun 22 21:28:49 <Sicelo> yeah, DocScrutinizer05, agreed
Jun 22 21:29:05 <Macer> Hildon (c)
Jun 22 21:29:08 <Macer> :-P
Jun 22 21:29:45 <Macer> ShadowJK: get an old tf101 and put active on it and tell me how you did it 
Jun 22 21:29:55 <Macer> bonus points if you get maemo on it
Jun 22 21:30:16 <Macer> but i think the screen is a tad too big for maemo's 1 window a a time system
Jun 22 21:32:40 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: but matchbox gets shutdown before HD starts...?
Jun 22 21:33:28 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd think I've seen sth like that,yes. But i'd assume HD is just another tweaked matchbox incarnation
Jun 22 21:34:36 <vi__> bootup stuff->matchbox(request password/leave offline mode?)->close matchbox->HD.
Jun 22 21:34:49 <vi__> I have NFC what HD REALLY is so yeah.
Jun 22 21:34:54 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod: seems familar
Jun 22 21:34:57 <freemangordon> MB2
Jun 22 21:35:35 <freemangordon> that is what hidon-desktop is using (i.e. libmatchbox2)
Jun 22 21:35:46 <freemangordon> whatever the difference with matchbox 1 is
Jun 22 21:35:49 <DocScrutinizer05> aiui HD is the windows manager while matchbox is... err... X ??
Jun 22 21:36:10 <DocScrutinizer05> s/windows/desktop/
Jun 22 21:36:11 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: aiui HD is the desktop manager while matchbox is... err... X ??
Jun 22 21:36:14 <freemangordon> no, h-d (along with libmatchbox2) is a window manager
Jun 22 21:36:27 <freemangordon> matchbox is WM too
Jun 22 21:36:37 <freemangordon> and xserver-xorg is X
Jun 22 21:36:58 <DocScrutinizer05> whatever
Jun 22 21:37:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I've no projects that need this detail in their wiki ATM
Jun 22 21:37:30 <freemangordon> CSSU? :P
Jun 22 21:37:39 <DocScrutinizer05> not really, for now
Jun 22 21:38:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess you'll come up with some nifty plan that will make me learn all about that stuff, next week
Jun 22 21:38:07 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Jun 22 21:38:34 <freemangordon> next week? no, it was planned for the weekend ;)
Jun 22 21:38:44 <DocScrutinizer05> dmmit
Jun 22 21:39:07 <DocScrutinizer05> duh, your link. 
Jun 22 21:39:19 <DocScrutinizer05> my laptop froze and needed a reboot :-S
Jun 22 21:39:43 <freemangordon> aah, yes. though I won;t be able to do any maemo related stuff till sunday
Jun 22 21:39:59 <ShadowJK> Macer, how does running multiple apps work, does it work, can you have more than one browser window or tab or something?
Jun 22 21:40:32 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: so lets leave it for Sunday or next week, hopefully Pali will appear too
Jun 22 21:41:38 <DocScrutinizer05> too late: here you are -> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/blogs/browse/2012/06/role-linux-kernel-maintainer
Jun 22 21:41:39 <Macer> in android?
Jun 22 21:41:47 <Macer> yes heh
Jun 22 21:42:06 <Macer> it works somewhat similar to maemo... all apps are full screen and multitask and are allowed background processes
Jun 22 21:42:37 <Macer> at the very least i can say that android does multitask unlike ios and wp7
Jun 22 21:43:21 <ShadowJK> does flash on youtube work, do you get 720 or 1080?
Jun 22 21:46:00 <Viltzu> zeq_laptop: I'm just wondering when you exactly are going to write the how to? I'm just wondering. There's no hurry.
Jun 22 21:48:20 <vi__> Is ssh over wifi broken is ssh over wifi under harmattan broken?
Jun 22 21:49:08 <vi__> Is ssh over wifi under harmattan broken?
Jun 22 21:49:13 <vi__> is what I meant.
Jun 22 22:00:42 <DocScrutinizer05> is what
Jun 22 22:01:48 <vi__> Is using ssh, over a wifi connection on the harmattan operating system 'broken'?
Jun 22 22:02:00 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: it wasn't (and isn't) for the OS rev I got here
Jun 22 22:03:00 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc about "newer" versions
Jun 22 22:03:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ssh bp; is what I do all the time. I never ever physically toucht those devices
Jun 22 22:04:03 <DocScrutinizer05> (bp like burning-platform)
Jun 22 22:04:35 <DocScrutinizer05> which actually is the N950
Jun 22 22:05:08 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks to MohammadAG for the christianizing
Jun 22 22:06:21 <DocScrutinizer05> christening actually
Jun 22 22:08:16 <DocScrutinizer05> however I *seem* to recall I had to tweak something in sshd config eventually. Dunno if it was for adopting the local class-C, or for allowing remote login from larger internets
Jun 22 22:09:01 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway it seems fact the IP range allowed to log in is restricted
Jun 22 22:09:27 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: but maybe ask that on #harmattan ?
Jun 22 22:12:40 <DocScrutinizer05> jr@HaleBopp:/btr77G> ssh -l root 192.168.1.49
Jun 22 22:12:52 <DocScrutinizer05> BusyBox v1.19.0.git (Maemo 3:1.19-7+0m6) built-in shell (ash)
Jun 22 22:12:53 <DocScrutinizer05> Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.
Jun 22 22:12:55 <DocScrutinizer05> RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# 
Jun 22 22:15:38 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: duh, wait. You'r enew to HARM, are you?
Jun 22 22:17:00 <DocScrutinizer05> I think first of all you'll need to enable developer mode in settings, and install a bunch of tools
Jun 22 22:17:16 <DocScrutinizer05> (will get installed the moment you enable DM)
Jun 22 22:18:28 <DocScrutinizer05> then the joy of forgetting all you knew about linux/unix starts. Since nothing works like you'd expect, when it comes to rootshell on HARM
Jun 22 22:19:04 <DocScrutinizer05> there's no sudo and su anymore, but devel-su and develsh
Jun 22 22:19:24 <DocScrutinizer05> (still haven't wrapped my head around when you need which of them)
Jun 22 22:20:11 <DocScrutinizer05> but hey, on fremantle we got root and sudo gainroot ;-P
Jun 22 22:21:04 <DocScrutinizer05> then you'll notice that root doesn't have *any* special powers at all, since all the permissions are linked to the executable now, not to the user
Jun 22 22:21:38 <DocScrutinizer05> so root can't even kill user processes, or write to user's homedir
Jun 22 22:22:46 <DocScrutinizer05> then you'll learn there are a shitload of files (in etc/ et al) that will cause MALF, a nasty way the system teaches you to never touch those files
Jun 22 22:23:42 <DocScrutinizer05> edit /etc/init.d/$whatever ? don't even think about it!
Jun 22 22:24:22 <RiD> er
Jun 22 22:24:31 <NIN101> summary: ham sucks if you care about usual linux experience.
Jun 22 22:25:16 <DocScrutinizer05> s/ham/HARM
Jun 22 22:25:19 <DocScrutinizer05> but yeah
Jun 22 22:28:08 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: wait, I cannot even edit the config files in /etc/?
Jun 22 22:29:07 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: what do you lose when you put it in 'open' mode?
Jun 22 22:29:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ~may-i-edit
Jun 22 22:29:20 <infobot> mayIedit () { grep "`basename $1`" /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && return; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }
Jun 22 22:29:56 <DocScrutinizer05> use dirs on this function, like /etc
Jun 22 22:30:07 <DocScrutinizer05> /etc/events.d
Jun 22 22:31:04 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: there's only one true openmode, and that will kill several of the deemed security-critical things like password storage etc
Jun 22 22:31:26 <vi__> This is sounding like an epic ballache,
Jun 22 22:31:31 <vi__> ^,/.
Jun 22 22:31:53 <DocScrutinizer05> mount|grep aegis
Jun 22 22:32:45 <DocScrutinizer05> soory but my pastebin doesn't work yet, on this laptop, so...
Jun 22 22:32:46 <vi__> So does inception totally blow aegis out of the water?
Jun 22 22:32:50 <DocScrutinizer05> RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# mount|grep aegis
Jun 22 22:32:51 <DocScrutinizer05> aegisfs on /home/user/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)
Jun 22 22:32:53 <DocScrutinizer05> aegisfs on /home/user/.odnp/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)
Jun 22 22:32:54 <DocScrutinizer05> aegisfs on /home/user/.positioningd/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)
Jun 22 22:32:56 <DocScrutinizer05> aegisfs on /home/user/.mms/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)
Jun 22 22:32:57 <DocScrutinizer05> aegisfs on /home/user/.odnp-fpcd/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)
Jun 22 22:32:59 <DocScrutinizer05> aegisfs on /var/cache/timed/aegis type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)
Jun 22 22:33:00 <DocScrutinizer05> aegisfs on /home/user/.slpgwd/layer type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)
Jun 22 22:33:02 <DocScrutinizer05> aegisfs on /etc/ssl/certs type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)
Jun 22 22:33:24 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: not really
Jun 22 22:33:49 <DocScrutinizer05> as you still have checksum-hashes on immutable/untouchable files
Jun 22 22:33:56 <DocScrutinizer05> aiui
Jun 22 22:34:54 <DocScrutinizer05> but you could install a new/edited version of a /etc/events.d/$whatever, with inception plsu the right tools, whatever those might be
Jun 22 22:36:01 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: are you fluent in any script language besides bash?
Jun 22 22:36:15 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, not really fluent
Jun 22 22:37:03 <merlin1991> I've been thinking of building a sb based "autobuilder" just in case
Jun 22 22:37:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I think I could hack up sth in python, though it'll look like my dog's arse
Jun 22 22:37:35 <merlin1991> since I have everything that's needed on my server already :DS
Jun 22 22:37:38 <merlin1991> -S
Jun 22 22:37:53 <DocScrutinizer05> sure thing
Jun 22 22:38:13 <vi__> Fuck those TMO haterz.
Jun 22 22:38:19 <DocScrutinizer05> if only javispedro would show up every now and then
Jun 22 22:38:34 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: eh?
Jun 22 22:38:36 <merlin1991> yeah, he showed up to quite a few of the obs meetings though
Jun 22 22:38:52 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen javispedro
Jun 22 22:38:58 <infobot> javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22d 2h 34m 30s ago, saying: 'the community ML activity can attest to that indeed'.
Jun 22 22:38:59 <merlin1991> I guess if X-Fade finishes the obs work we could copy paste that to any server farm
Jun 22 22:39:17 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: infobot is not in #maemo-meeting
Jun 22 22:39:24 <jacekowski> merlin1991: i've had an autobuilder
Jun 22 22:39:24 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Jun 22 22:39:30 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: the CA thread on TMO is now getting personal.
Jun 22 22:39:35 * DocScrutinizer05 neither :-P
Jun 22 22:39:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ~tmo
Jun 22 22:39:49 <infobot> somebody said tmo was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMO, or http://talk.maemo.org, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio#TMO. It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen.
Jun 22 22:40:17 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: thankfully I never read the tmo thread :D
Jun 22 22:40:17 <merlin1991> jacekowski: any code you can share to build on?
Jun 22 22:40:41 <DocScrutinizer05> hi jacekowski :-9
Jun 22 22:40:42 <merlin1991> I guess for a proper maemo.org replacement we need a good web integration
Jun 22 22:40:44 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Jun 22 22:41:19 <merlin1991> jacekowski: also in general I'm interested how you did that :)
Jun 22 22:41:20 <vi__> merlin1991: or a gun.
Jun 22 22:41:33 <jacekowski> merlin1991: with a lot of effort
Jun 22 22:41:34 <merlin1991> vi__: I don't follow
Jun 22 22:42:04 <vi__> merlin1991: sorry, too much polish special brew.
Jun 22 22:42:14 <merlin1991> hehe :D
Jun 22 22:42:16 <vi__> merlin1991: I shall proceed to lurk.
Jun 22 22:42:42 <merlin1991> vi__: input is always welcome, though I prefer clear input ;)
Jun 22 22:42:51 <jacekowski> merlin1991: buildme + reprepo
Jun 22 22:43:06 <merlin1991> reprepro is awesome, though it only keeps one version
Jun 22 22:43:25 <jacekowski> i don't think so
Jun 22 22:43:26 <merlin1991> which would break the old maemo.org repo systen
Jun 22 22:43:30 <jacekowski> hmm
Jun 22 22:43:35 <merlin1991> s/en/em/
Jun 22 22:43:35 <infobot> merlin1991 meant: which would break the old maemo.org repo system
Jun 22 22:43:41 <jacekowski> reprepo can do multiple versions
Jun 22 22:43:45 <merlin1991> how?
Jun 22 22:43:58 <merlin1991> I asked over in #reprepro yesterday and the devs said no :D
Jun 22 22:44:12 <jacekowski> hmmm
Jun 22 22:44:15 <jacekowski> dunno then
Jun 22 22:44:21 <jacekowski> i think it worked on mine
Jun 22 22:44:25 <jacekowski> but i've got no way of testing it
Jun 22 22:44:30 <merlin1991> dpkg-scanpackages doesn't do multiple versions either
Jun 22 22:44:41 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: when things get personel on tromoox, we got chem|st to fix this battle
Jun 22 22:44:53 <jacekowski> i've tried using apt-ftparchive as well
Jun 22 22:44:54 <merlin1991> and there ends my knowledge about apt-repo tools
Jun 22 22:44:58 <jacekowski> anyways
Jun 22 22:45:14 <merlin1991> did you have any kind of implementation for user uploads of source?
Jun 22 22:45:23 <jacekowski> ssh
Jun 22 22:45:33 <jacekowski> but it was only for me and few trusted users
Jun 22 22:45:42 <merlin1991> jacekowski: I'm thinking about web form ...
Jun 22 22:45:43 <jacekowski> and i didn't have to track it
Jun 22 22:46:03 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: got a link to the flame thread?
Jun 22 22:46:08 <jacekowski> merlin1991: there are standard tools that use ssh
Jun 22 22:46:18 <DocScrutinizer05> me? nah
Jun 22 22:46:27 <jacekowski> merlin1991: dput
Jun 22 22:46:39 <jacekowski> merlin1991: and dput is used all across other distros and stuff
Jun 22 22:46:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess vi__got some
Jun 22 22:46:52 <merlin1991> jacekowski: yeah, though that hardly would represent the known maemo.org interface :/
Jun 22 22:47:05 <merlin1991> (but I use it for cssu uploads ;))
Jun 22 22:47:19 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: are you in mood for popcorn, eh?
Jun 22 22:47:21 <jacekowski> merlin1991: maemo uses dput
Jun 22 22:47:34 <merlin1991> jacekowski: we've got the webinterface aswell
Jun 22 22:47:41 <merlin1991> which is even better documented
Jun 22 22:48:06 <jacekowski> you don't need a lot of documentation for dput
Jun 22 22:48:12 <merlin1991> yeah :D
Jun 22 22:48:23 <jacekowski> http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#dput
Jun 22 22:48:44 <merlin1991> though would you be interested to develop a maemo.org similar autobuilder based on any language?
Jun 22 22:48:54 <merlin1991> I don't feel like doing it completely alone
Jun 22 22:49:19 <DocScrutinizer05> why can't we use the original one?
Jun 22 22:49:27 <merlin1991> *just in case*
Jun 22 22:49:45 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: funding isn't fixed for the future, and the maemo future doesn't look good
Jun 22 22:49:53 <DocScrutinizer05> meh
Jun 22 22:49:58 <DocScrutinizer05> the autobuilder script
Jun 22 22:50:01 <merlin1991> aswell as the whole midgard system is a bit overkill for the average self paid root server
Jun 22 22:50:25 <merlin1991> it incorporates *everything* maemo.org has :/
Jun 22 22:50:33 <DocScrutinizer05> wut?
Jun 22 22:50:35 <merlin1991> as far as I can tell it doesn't look quite modular
Jun 22 22:50:40 <DocScrutinizer05> midgard does autobuilds?
Jun 22 22:51:06 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: for a proper replacement I'd like to have a running builder and at least hte package interface
Jun 22 22:51:29 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Jun 22 22:51:44 <merlin1991> the builder scripts might be independent, though they are heavily adjusted by X-Fade thus not exactly freely avaiable, and everything else is midgard
Jun 22 22:52:26 <DocScrutinizer05> thought as much, modulo I don't see why X-Fade wouldn't want to share the autobuilder scripts
Jun 22 22:52:33 <merlin1991> ture :D
Jun 22 22:52:37 <merlin1991> *ture*
Jun 22 22:52:39 <merlin1991> arf
Jun 22 22:52:41 <merlin1991> *true*
Jun 22 22:52:42 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Jun 22 22:53:13 * DocScrutinizer05 invites merlin1991 for a Tschunk
Jun 22 22:53:19 <merlin1991> I guess X-Fade would be happy to share them, but I fear they are written in something I'm not fluent in
Jun 22 22:53:39 <DocScrutinizer05> well, that's the least problem, no?
Jun 22 22:53:48 <DocScrutinizer05> you can learn ;-)
Jun 22 22:53:53 <merlin1991> stufu ;)
Jun 22 22:54:08 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: what's a Tschunk though?
Jun 22 22:54:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wiki tschunk
Jun 22 22:54:22 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschunk (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Expert-subject|Mixed Drinks|date=October 2009}} {{Unreferenced|date=October 2009}} {{WPMIXInfobox | iba = | name = Tschunk | image = Tschunk cropped.jpg | caption = | type = cocktail | flaming = | rum = yes | brandy = no | served = | garnish = | drinkware = | ingredients = *4-6 cl white rum or golden rum *limes *Club-Mate *(if desired): brown sugar *ice | prep = Dice limes, put them ...
Jun 22 22:54:28 <Raimu> Yum.
Jun 22 22:54:44 <merlin1991> omfg contains Club-Mate
Jun 22 22:55:14 <merlin1991> caffaine ftw :D
Jun 22 22:55:36 <merlin1991> we lost her :/
Jun 22 22:55:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ?
Jun 22 22:55:52 <DocScrutinizer05> whomß
Jun 22 22:55:56 <DocScrutinizer05> ?
Jun 22 22:56:03 <merlin1991> infobot
Jun 22 22:56:10 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Jun 22 22:56:18 <merlin1991> [00:55:27] <-- infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Remote host closed the connection)
Jun 22 22:56:28 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!
Jun 22 22:56:30 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, Tim's hacky hour
Jun 22 22:56:44 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wb
Jun 22 22:56:45 <infobot> thx
Jun 22 22:56:54 <merlin1991> ~botsnack
Jun 22 22:56:54 <infobot> :), merlin1991
Jun 22 22:57:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen timriker
Jun 22 22:57:41 <infobot> timriker is currently on #ldstech #infobot, last said: 'hmm. I didn't get the jira email korman sent out. Perhaps I'm not on those lists?'.
Jun 22 22:59:24 <merlin1991> wtf abill_uk actually has a sane argument on the ca thread
Jun 22 22:59:53 <NIN101> the ca is popcorn.
Jun 22 23:00:04 <DocScrutinizer05> seems a good tradition meanwhile: Tim /joins #infobot at Friday 23:00 UTC, and says ~die
Jun 22 23:00:08 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Jun 22 23:00:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+uptime
Jun 22 23:00:43 <infobot> - Uptime for purl -
Jun 22 23:00:43 <infobot> Now: 5m 5s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux
Jun 22 23:00:44 <infobot> 1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 2010
Jun 22 23:00:44 <infobot> 2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 2009
Jun 22 23:00:44 <infobot> 3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 2009
Jun 22 23:01:20 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks purl
Jun 22 23:01:20 <infobot> no worries, DocScrutinizer05
Jun 22 23:01:30 <merlin1991> NIN101: I can't complain, I got a n950
Jun 22 23:02:41 <DocScrutinizer05> traitor! ;-D
Jun 22 23:03:05 <Sc0rpius> I should have one of those
Jun 22 23:03:42 <DocScrutinizer05> welcome to #club950 anyway
Jun 22 23:04:10 <DocScrutinizer05> which probably is the best thing about the whole device
Jun 22 23:04:36 <Macer> heh
Jun 22 23:04:39 <NIN101> you deserve it, others don't (imo). Intransparent decissions and also not sure what to think that council members themselves got a device. I am not saying they don't deserve it, but it is kinda strange, because they are doing the decisions... :-)
Jun 22 23:04:39 <Sc0rpius> in the meantime I'm still waiting for a proper replacement for the N900
Jun 22 23:04:42 <Sc0rpius> and N9 is not.
Jun 22 23:04:51 <Macer> didn't the scientist who developed lsd live to be like 110 or something?
Jun 22 23:04:57 <Sc0rpius> and a device with Tizen is not either
Jun 22 23:05:05 <Macer> Sc0rpius: it will never happen :(
Jun 22 23:05:12 <Macer> the n900 is a one of a kind
Jun 22 23:05:13 <Sc0rpius> a device with Mer isn't either.
Jun 22 23:05:22 <DocScrutinizer05> NIN101: I'd argue every day that council *needs* a device for reference purposes
Jun 22 23:05:29 <Macer> what's wrong with mer?
Jun 22 23:05:36 <Sc0rpius> try it
Jun 22 23:05:43 <Sc0rpius> and then ask the question again
Jun 22 23:05:48 <Macer> i wanted to try to get it on the tf101
Jun 22 23:05:50 <Macer> and install active
Jun 22 23:05:52 <Macer> but don't know how :-/
Jun 22 23:06:48 <NIN101> DocScrutinizer05: That's probably true.
Jun 22 23:06:49 <jacekowski> Sc0rpius: there will never be device like that
Jun 22 23:06:59 <jacekowski> Sc0rpius: there is no market for it
Jun 22 23:07:07 <Sc0rpius> I guess
Jun 22 23:07:15 <jacekowski> Sc0rpius: older people don't buy smartphones
Jun 22 23:07:26 <jacekowski> Sc0rpius: so those will be happy with anything, maybe symbian
Jun 22 23:07:30 <jacekowski> Sc0rpius: and kids want iphone 
Jun 22 23:07:37 <Sc0rpius> yeah
Jun 22 23:07:38 <jacekowski> maybe android
Jun 22 23:07:48 <merlin1991> n900 was one of a kind, so much hw in one device, a update to todays standards would only include more ram, newer omap and nfc
Jun 22 23:08:07 <jacekowski> merlin1991: and capacitive screen
Jun 22 23:08:15 <jacekowski> merlin1991: with stylus, like in galaxy note
Jun 22 23:08:26 <DocScrutinizer05> jacekowski: yeah, and both the elder and the kids already asked my "don't you eventually get yourself a smartphone instead of this thing?" X-P
Jun 22 23:08:28 <jacekowski> that would be sweet
Jun 22 23:08:29 <Sc0rpius> well I never use the stylus
Jun 22 23:08:29 <vi__> jacekowski: nah, multi-touch resistive!
Jun 22 23:08:35 <NIN101> (and glonass maybe)
Jun 22 23:08:42 <Sc0rpius> I think Galaxy S series phones have better screen than the N900
Jun 22 23:08:56 <Sc0rpius> but the only real good thing about the N900 was the OS (the hardware is crap actually)
Jun 22 23:08:57 <jacekowski> vi__: resistive is soft 
Jun 22 23:09:10 <jacekowski> vi__: and it's easier to scratch than glass capacitive
Jun 22 23:09:22 <Sc0rpius> I hate that N900 doesn't have multitouch for instance
Jun 22 23:09:23 <vi__> true
Jun 22 23:09:27 <jacekowski> if you can do glass resistive i'll have it any day
Jun 22 23:09:40 <jacekowski> but having glass screen is a priority for me
Jun 22 23:09:49 <DocScrutinizer05> Sc0rpius: what should fremantle do with mt??
Jun 22 23:09:54 <jacekowski> as i don't use any screen protectors or anything
Jun 22 23:09:56 <Sc0rpius> but I really need an OS with 100% native executables in a phone.
Jun 22 23:10:04 <merlin1991> well fm transmitter is quite awesome aswell
Jun 22 23:10:05 <Sc0rpius> multitouch is important in games
Jun 22 23:10:11 <Sc0rpius> and games are important in this business
Jun 22 23:10:16 <jacekowski> Sc0rpius: you can do native on android
Jun 22 23:10:21 <Sc0rpius> do you know how much money the Angry Birds guys made?????
Jun 22 23:10:26 <jacekowski> Sc0rpius: a lot
Jun 22 23:10:27 <JakDaRippa> is anyone in here using fmms and tmobile in the US? having trouble with my configuration settings.
Jun 22 23:10:29 <Sc0rpius> that's the amount of money I need
Jun 22 23:10:38 <jacekowski> Sc0rpius: not as much as that farm game on facebook though
Jun 22 23:10:41 <Sc0rpius> yeah!!
Jun 22 23:10:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't give a flying F about AB
Jun 22 23:10:43 <Sc0rpius> true
Jun 22 23:10:56 <DocScrutinizer05> and even less about how much money they made with it
Jun 22 23:11:08 <Sc0rpius> well I would love to have JUST ONE SINGLE IDEA for an app/game that I could make that amount of money
Jun 22 23:11:11 <jacekowski> i wish i would have that kind of money
Jun 22 23:11:11 <Sc0rpius> and never ever work again in my life
Jun 22 23:11:19 <jacekowski> Sc0rpius: it's not a new idea
Jun 22 23:11:25 <jacekowski> Sc0rpius: games like that existed before
Jun 22 23:11:29 * Woody14619 is off for the weekend..bye! :)
Jun 22 23:11:30 <Sc0rpius> well but it's an very well implemented idea
Jun 22 23:11:37 <Sc0rpius> I didn't say it has to be an innovative idea
Jun 22 23:11:46 <merlin1991> JakDaRippa: I fear currently this channel is made of old european guys talking about why current smartphones suck ;)
Jun 22 23:11:46 <Sc0rpius> just a good one 
Jun 22 23:11:52 <DocScrutinizer05> seems you forgot N900 been the platform where they rolled out AB iirc
Jun 22 23:12:11 <DocScrutinizer05> so don't tell me AB needs mt
Jun 22 23:12:14 <Sc0rpius> no
Jun 22 23:12:17 <Sc0rpius> but the GOOD games do
Jun 22 23:12:25 <jacekowski> not really
Jun 22 23:12:26 <Sc0rpius> AB is not a good game, just an addictive one
Jun 22 23:12:37 <jacekowski> i hate games on phones
Jun 22 23:12:39 <jacekowski> i've tried
Jun 22 23:12:46 <jacekowski> but multitouch control is painful
Jun 22 23:12:49 <jacekowski> whatever you do
Jun 22 23:12:52 <Sc0rpius> they are pretty useful in business meetings
Jun 22 23:12:57 <jacekowski> accelerometer controll isn't perfect either
Jun 22 23:13:09 <jacekowski> mouse + keyboard
Jun 22 23:13:21 <jacekowski> it's been like that since beggining of the time
Jun 22 23:13:25 <jacekowski> and it will never change
Jun 22 23:14:32 <JakDaRippa> merlin1991, well that sucks. i have a N900 that i will never get rid of. i think it's the best phone ever made. especially once i get everything working correctly.
Jun 22 23:14:33 <DocScrutinizer05> joystick FTW
Jun 22 23:14:41 <DocScrutinizer05> literally
Jun 22 23:16:02 <DocScrutinizer05> JakDaRippa: sorry, no fmms here
Jun 22 23:16:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen frals
Jun 22 23:16:19 <infobot> frals is currently on #maemo #harmattan, last said: 'but afaik everything in the script will then be run as root'.
Jun 22 23:16:21 <JakDaRippa> n/p...have a nice day
Jun 22 23:16:50 <merlin1991> JakDaRippa: frals would be the guy responsible for fmms, thus he might be able to help
Jun 22 23:17:15 <DocScrutinizer05> JakDaRippa: maybe frals is willing to help
Jun 22 23:17:37 <DocScrutinizer05> duh, merlin1991 been faster :-D
Jun 22 23:18:27 <DocScrutinizer05> frals: ping ^^^
Jun 22 23:23:12 <freemangordon> zeq_laptop: I made some more progress with fennec rotation, unfortunately it is still not 100% ok. Will be off for the weekend, so will continue on sunday. If you find some spare time, please upload the source to garage.
Jun 22 23:23:18 * freemangordon waves
Jun 22 23:25:55 <merlin1991> freemangordon: did you change it to the usual listen for resize code, or does it still listen to the accelerometer directly?
Jun 22 23:26:58 <DocScrutinizer05> for the OT-amusement: http://adiz0r.soup.io/post/193593866/Developers-designers-project-managers-QA-and-sysadmins
Jun 22 23:27:34 <DocScrutinizer05> I quite obviously am classified as sysadmin by everybody ;-P
Jun 22 23:28:36 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: a business partner had a quite simlilar pic as a status message in skype :D
Jun 22 23:30:10 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm missing the catergory "users"
Jun 22 23:30:35 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: they are usually not wihthin your sw dev company ;)
Jun 22 23:30:42 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Jun 22 23:31:03 <DocScrutinizer05> and can't tell apart devels from QA and sysadmins
Jun 22 23:32:05 <DocScrutinizer05> so the "as seen by users" row would probably just need one picture
Jun 22 23:33:11 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe a group photo, similar to "village people"
Jun 22 23:34:36 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: but you'd have to devide the user group at least into groups with technical knolwedge and without
Jun 22 23:34:48 <merlin1991> s/devide/divide/
Jun 22 23:34:49 <infobot> merlin1991 meant: DocScrutinizer05: but you'd have to divide the user group at least into groups with technical knolwedge and without
Jun 22 23:35:09 <Atarii> hahaha that pic is amzing
Jun 22 23:35:11 <Atarii> amazing*
Jun 22 23:44:51 <Viltzu> I probably shouldn't remove gvfs on n900?
Jun 22 23:52:38 <Viltzu> Looks like it kind of impossible to even remove P
Jun 22 23:56:34 <Hurrian> meh, fremantle system packaging is messed up, too many things that depend on one another
Jun 23 00:12:51 <DocScrutinizer05> Viltzu: afaik it's mandatory
Jun 23 00:13:16 <DocScrutinizer05> Hurrian: indeed
Jun 23 00:13:23 <Viltzu> DocScrutinizer05: Yeah I tought that too :P
Jun 23 00:13:31 <DocScrutinizer05> that's the whole point about HAM
Jun 23 00:13:35 <DocScrutinizer05> and MPR
Jun 23 00:25:38 <Viltzu> Now this project thing is just 0.4 version numbers to succeed.
Jun 23 00:25:44 <Viltzu> gcc-4.2 is too old. Need gcc-4.6 :P
Jun 23 00:26:05 <Viltzu> 0.4 version numbers away*
Jun 23 00:26:13 <Viltzu> Okay that sentence is probably all messed up anyway.
Jun 23 00:29:47 <Viltzu> Just waiting for the _laptop guy.
Jun 23 00:30:31 <Viltzu> zeq_laptop
Jun 23 01:03:23 <Viltzu> Where does sbox have gcc binary? O_o
Jun 23 01:03:43 <Viltzu> No matter how I try to delete it it always works when I write "gcc" in terminal...
Jun 23 01:03:58 <Viltzu> I want it vanished.
Jun 23 01:05:35 <DocScrutinizer51> chmod -x $(which gcc)
Jun 23 01:07:11 <Viltzu> uhm? you mean like chmod -x $(gcc-4.2) or what?
Jun 23 01:07:13 <Viltzu> Oh wait hmm
Jun 23 01:07:48 <Viltzu> Okay not. asd.
Jun 23 01:08:39 <DocScrutinizer51> no, I meant exavtly ehat I wrote
Jun 23 01:08:54 <DocScrutinizer51> exactly what*
Jun 23 01:09:38 <DocScrutinizer51> maybe a-x
Jun 23 01:10:01 <Viltzu> what?
Jun 23 01:10:11 <Viltzu> But well not working.
Jun 23 01:10:25 <DocScrutinizer51> errr
Jun 23 01:11:08 <DocScrutinizer51> when you're root and it's not working, then a plain gcc neither does
Jun 23 01:11:28 <Viltzu> in scratchbox I have done apt-get remove gcc gcc-4.2
Jun 23 01:11:34 <Viltzu> it removed them from /usr/bin
Jun 23 01:11:50 <Viltzu> but when I write "gcc" in terminal it still works and uses 4.2.
Jun 23 01:12:09 <Viltzu> It's taking it from scratchbox/compilers/bin? ;U
Jun 23 01:12:39 <Viltzu> or where. oh gaawd.
Jun 23 01:12:55 <DocScrutinizer51> well, after # chmod a-x $(which gcc) it wont anymore
Jun 23 01:13:44 <Viltzu> chmod: too few arguments
Jun 23 01:13:47 <DocScrutinizer51> unless gcc is a shell alias
Jun 23 01:14:08 <Viltzu> well gcc is a symlink or whatever
Jun 23 01:14:13 <Viltzu> goes to gcc-4.2
Jun 23 01:14:16 <Viltzu> afaik.
Jun 23 01:14:32 <Viltzu> But yeah chmod says too few arguments
Jun 23 01:14:40 <DocScrutinizer51> type gcc
Jun 23 01:14:46 <Viltzu> and?
Jun 23 01:14:54 <DocScrutinizer51> and enter
Jun 23 01:14:58 <Viltzu> and?
Jun 23 01:15:13 <Viltzu> It runs gcc. (4.2)
Jun 23 01:15:15 <DocScrutinizer51> type: type gcc<enter>
Jun 23 01:15:54 <KaffeeJunky123> what's the easiest way to crosscompile qt applications for maemo?
Jun 23 01:15:54 <Viltzu> So you don't know what I should do? :)
Jun 23 01:16:09 <Viltzu> Haven't you asked it already.
Jun 23 01:16:20 <Viltzu> or deja vu or you are a bot. asd.
Jun 23 01:16:27 <DocScrutinizer51> ~ # type echo
Jun 23 01:16:59 <DocScrutinizer51> echo is a shell builtin
Jun 23 01:17:07 <Viltzu> ah
Jun 23 01:17:38 <Viltzu> gcc is hashed (/scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc)
Jun 23 01:17:43 <Viltzu> so it is taking it from there.. mm.
Jun 23 01:18:00 <DocScrutinizer51> which gcc
Jun 23 01:18:28 <Viltzu> mm what? gcc runs version 4.2. 
Jun 23 01:18:35 <Viltzu> :u
Jun 23 01:18:54 <DocScrutinizer51> type: which gcc<enter>
Jun 23 01:19:42 <Viltzu> Oh so you were serious when you told me to write exactly as you said.
Jun 23 01:19:45 <Viltzu> Wait a sec.
Jun 23 01:20:16 <Viltzu> Okay now when I did chmod a-x $(which gcc)
Jun 23 01:20:42 <Viltzu> it says changing permissions of '/scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc': Operation not permitted
Jun 23 01:22:15 <Viltzu> Oh right, as root. Not inside of scratchbox.
Jun 23 01:22:16 <Viltzu> :>
Jun 23 01:22:21 <DocScrutinizer51> type: sudo chroot a-x €(which gcc)
Jun 23 01:22:40 <Viltzu> altough outside of scratchbox it would do it to wrong gcc.
Jun 23 01:22:44 <DocScrutinizer51> noooo, not outside of SB!
Jun 23 01:22:52 <Viltzu> ye ye I got it already.
Jun 23 01:23:14 <Viltzu> sudo is just yelling "must be setuid root"
Jun 23 01:23:38 <DocScrutinizer51> aah, messybox
Jun 23 01:23:48 <Viltzu> what?
Jun 23 01:23:51 <Viltzu> :D
Jun 23 01:24:14 <DocScrutinizer51> try: su
Jun 23 01:24:26 <Viltzu> Don't have.
Jun 23 01:24:40 <DocScrutinizer51> try: root
Jun 23 01:24:46 <Viltzu> nope
Jun 23 01:24:59 <DocScrutinizer51> try: sudo gainroot
Jun 23 01:25:11 <Viltzu> nope (must be setuid root)
Jun 23 01:25:19 <DocScrutinizer51> dang
Jun 23 01:25:26 <DocScrutinizer51> try: fakeroot
Jun 23 01:25:33 <Viltzu> yes.
Jun 23 01:25:37 <Viltzu> works. And then?
Jun 23 01:26:06 <DocScrutinizer51> chmod a-x /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc
Jun 23 01:26:50 <Viltzu> Okay. which gcc would work too. (returns that path)
Jun 23 01:27:08 <DocScrutinizer51> might
Jun 23 01:27:09 <Viltzu> gcc works still.
Jun 23 01:27:20 <DocScrutinizer51> dafaq
Jun 23 01:27:23 <Viltzu> Should I exit this fakeroot thing somehow?
Jun 23 01:27:37 <DocScrutinizer51> type: id
Jun 23 01:28:11 <Viltzu> uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),46(plugdev),105,119,122,1000(maemo),1001
Jun 23 01:28:36 <DocScrutinizer51> type: exit
Jun 23 01:28:49 <DocScrutinizer51> type: id
Jun 23 01:29:09 <DocScrutinizer51> type: rehash
Jun 23 01:29:11 <Viltzu> uid=1000(maemo) gid=1000(maemo) and the rest is same.
Jun 23 01:29:29 <Viltzu> command not found
Jun 23 01:29:41 <DocScrutinizer51> type: ls -l $(which gcc)
Jun 23 01:29:43 <Viltzu> Can't I just remove/rename compilers/bin/gcc as a root outside of sbox?
Jun 23 01:30:04 <DocScrutinizer51> sb is a chroot
Jun 23 01:30:11 <DocScrutinizer51> so: no
Jun 23 01:30:26 <Viltzu> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 Oct 28 2010 /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc -> sb_gcc_wrapper
Jun 23 01:30:41 <DocScrutinizer51> dang
Jun 23 01:32:14 <DocScrutinizer51> mv /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc_away
Jun 23 01:32:51 <DocScrutinizer51> maybe need fakeroot again
Jun 23 01:32:53 <Viltzu> I have a feeling that will not work. Should I fak...
Jun 23 01:32:54 <Viltzu> yes.
Jun 23 01:33:25 <Viltzu> permission denied :u
Jun 23 01:33:36 <DocScrutinizer51> o.O
Jun 23 01:35:03 <DocScrutinizer51> well, anyway you probably should edit sb_gcc_wrapper in the end
Jun 23 01:35:30 <Viltzu> ok.... so what I should do? :>
Jun 23 01:35:45 <DocScrutinizer51> to point to your new gcc4-6
Jun 23 01:36:21 <DocScrutinizer51> or just wait til somebody with a clue takes over
Jun 23 01:36:41 <Viltzu> uhm. I'm waiting.
Jun 23 01:36:41 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm actually lost in this sbox djungle
Jun 23 01:37:29 <DocScrutinizer51> I'd have tought when you do fakeroot; apt-get remove gcc
Jun 23 01:37:36 <DocScrutinizer51> in sbox
Jun 23 01:37:47 <DocScrutinizer51> it should kill your gcc
Jun 23 01:38:07 <Viltzu> it will remove just /usr/bin/gcc but thats useless :P
Jun 23 01:38:32 <Viltzu> though I haven't done it as fakeroot
Jun 23 01:38:35 <Viltzu> would that change anything+
Jun 23 01:38:39 <Viltzu> ?*
Jun 23 01:38:50 <DocScrutinizer51> sure
Jun 23 01:38:54 <Viltzu> Nope.
Jun 23 01:42:05 <DocScrutinizer51> I dunno which gcc is used in sbox, some ARM gcc, or some x86    sbox specific gcc, or even your PC's gcc
Jun 23 01:42:32 <DocScrutinizer51> you should check in sb_gcc_wrapper what that does
Jun 23 01:43:07 <DocScrutinizer51> or wait until somebody kicks in here who has a clue already
Jun 23 01:43:54 <DocScrutinizer51> aiui freemangordon should already have done all this
Jun 23 01:44:21 <DocScrutinizer51> he will be back on Sunday iirc
Jun 23 01:46:45 <Viltzu> k.. ;u
Jun 23 02:19:44 <Viltzu> Okay no need to get rid of that thing anymore.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 23 02:59:58 2012