**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 24 02:59:58 2012 Jun 24 09:16:17 hi. Ive seen a lot of screenshots with those 15 30 and this one with 15 30 60 in the bottom right corner: http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10848&stc=1&d=1276153127 what is that? Jun 24 09:17:52 from N900 Jun 24 09:28:17 cant figure out what app or what it is Jun 24 09:46:00 Kowalczyk: it is a QBW (queen beecon widget). Jun 24 09:46:13 What it does, I have NFC. Jun 24 09:49:37 ok... thanks.. will check it out. need to figure out how to create icons and stuff. want to change the taskbar icon etc.. Jun 24 09:52:49 Kowalczyk that is sleeper widget http://wiki.maemo.org/Sleeper Jun 24 10:20:55 merlin1991: I'm seriously struggling to get a statically linked gcc cross-compiler built for scratchbox. Do you have any pointers? Using "-static" in CFLAGS or CC fails to link ppl properly, so I tried using the --with-boot-ldflags=-static, but that seemed to have no effect. :( Jun 24 10:21:34 zeq_laptop: freemangordon might have some pointers Jun 24 10:21:54 yeah, he should be back around some time today Jun 24 10:22:54 I spent a large part of yesterday setting up a 32bit chroot, and building the toolchain prerequistites. It's a long process... Jun 24 10:23:07 frustrated at the end! Jun 24 10:24:42 freemangordon: ping Jun 24 10:26:29 I also seem to have somehow broken the garage git repo for the fennec project!?! It was working, I was pushing the source tree, but it got stuck, since then git just sits there. I tried cloning from the repo, but... silence. Jun 24 10:33:31 Hi ! Jun 24 10:33:55 Tofe: Good morning! Jun 24 10:34:15 Yep, it's 1:34PM in the morning here :) Jun 24 10:34:30 :) Jun 24 10:34:41 It's a Sunday, morning all day Jun 24 10:34:46 exactly ! Jun 24 10:37:02 jon-kha: aha.. thank you :D Jun 24 10:37:27 any good guide for changing icons? example for the menu/taskswitcher? Jun 24 10:39:58 how does one debug a hildon status area plugin ? debugging directly on N900 seems a *bit* risky... Jun 24 11:06:36 Tofe: sb? Jun 24 11:07:27 is there a way to reinitialise the git repo of a garage project? do I need to email an admin, is there anybody here? Jun 24 11:14:39 zeq_laptop: you want to do what exactly? Jun 24 11:18:04 merlin1991: ah, yes, of course. With some printf, that could work well. Jun 24 11:18:19 hiemanshu: I can't pull/push to the remote repo since it got stuck. I've no idea why. It was working. But there's nothing in the remote repo atm, so I thought it might be best just to reinitialise it and start again. Jun 24 11:19:32 zeq_laptop: best speak to an admin then Jun 24 11:19:50 merlin1991: fixed the build, I needed to use " --with-host-libstdcxx="-lstdc++ -lsupc++ -lm" Jun 24 11:20:33 but does hildon-desktop load everything that is located in /usr/lib/hildon-desktop, or is there a config file to activate specific plugins ? I didn't find anything clear about that Jun 24 11:25:59 Tofe: there are .desktop files in /usr/share/ ... afaik Jun 24 11:27:56 ah ok, so I guess activating a plugin would mean "put the .desktop the right way"... I'll investigate that. Thanks ! Jun 24 11:42:53 hm Jun 24 11:42:59 need to find something to put ecomstation on Jun 24 11:43:09 :) in soviet russie os/2 runs missiles Jun 24 11:43:15 russia Jun 24 11:43:44 hehe half os, classic :D Jun 24 11:46:42 hey Jun 24 11:46:48 hi Jun 24 11:46:51 hi everyone Jun 24 11:46:57 Estel_: ping Jun 24 11:47:13 so, I hear the council had quite a party? Jun 24 11:48:03 merlin1991: heh Jun 24 11:48:11 is it true that they seized the community awards devices for themselves? Jun 24 11:48:33 ecomstation = os/2 ;) Jun 24 11:48:43 Venemo: dunno how 5 guys could seize 25 devices Jun 24 11:48:47 there is a council? Jun 24 11:48:48 I seem to have broken my scratchbox. Is it normal for targets to get "mixed-up"; I have files from my "HOST" target in /lib along with my ARM libs...? Jun 24 11:48:57 merlin1991: LOL!! Jun 24 11:48:59 that't would require quite some explaining :D Jun 24 11:49:06 N950s? Jun 24 11:49:28 well, 4 of the 5 guys applied for devices, and what surprise, they all got them too. at least this is what ZogG told me Jun 24 11:49:50 N950s? Jun 24 11:50:00 I'm unsure about the details. Jun 24 11:50:06 so, uhm, we came to think of, yeah all in all it's better for the community if each and everyone of us gets 5 devices, you see, we're by the community and for the community so it has to be right? ... Jun 24 11:50:07 :D Jun 24 11:50:21 LOL Jun 24 11:50:22 heh Jun 24 11:50:44 25 N950s for 5 guys would be awful Jun 24 11:50:51 total soviet takeover haha Jun 24 11:51:21 damn, if only Quim had passed them their working tools prior to declaring the rest as awards Jun 24 11:51:25 well, the thing is that it feels bad when you are the judge of something that you also applied in. Jun 24 11:51:32 Macer: I think you'd enjoy http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1226087&postcount=283 aswell Jun 24 11:51:55 they wouldn't have to apply for award "competition" and no harsh words Jun 24 11:52:07 I don't personally have anything against the council, but please get my point. Jun 24 11:52:15 DocScrutinizer05 must be one of them :) Jun 24 11:52:24 Macer: 25 didn't go to 5 guys. There is dispute whether council members contributed to the community... Jun 24 11:52:32 stalin's inner circle Jun 24 11:52:43 Macer: ehß Jun 24 11:52:44 while mother russia starves Jun 24 11:52:47 ? Jun 24 11:52:47 lol Jun 24 11:53:47 Macer: elaborate! Jun 24 11:54:03 merlin1991: LOL! Jun 24 11:54:17 Venemo: merlin1991 i suggest you to read the thread Jun 24 11:54:44 ZogG_laptop: I read it, but at this point I'm only in for the comedy Jun 24 11:54:44 so if 4 guys got them where did the other 21 go? Jun 24 11:54:52 Macer: elaborate! Jun 24 11:54:59 DocScrutinizer05: ? Jun 24 11:55:04 [24.06.2012 13:52:10] DocScrutinizer05 must be one of them :) Jun 24 11:55:08 Macer: elaborate! Jun 24 11:55:10 Macer: you joking, or you really don't understand? Jun 24 11:55:33 merlin1991: the thing it's not funny Jun 24 11:55:56 DocScrutinizer05: you are part of the council that horded all the N950s from awards? Jun 24 11:56:07 no Jun 24 11:56:12 heh Jun 24 11:56:34 Macer: i know council is hard work but is not to mocl in faces that they are council, especially when it's pasted only month and they were choosen 5/7. But even this is not a point, they might deserve the devices, but not the way it was done Jun 24 11:56:47 there are no devices... the council just didn't want the community to know Jun 24 11:56:52 Macer: he is more reasonable than that =) Jun 24 11:57:31 ZogG_laptop: in soviet russia phones are bourgeoisie Jun 24 11:57:38 so the govt keeps them Jun 24 11:57:41 Venemo: it would be nice if you read at least parts where they answer us in thread (not personal attacks on each other with Arie and other guy)... it's quite amazing how they do that Jun 24 11:57:50 to protect the society Jun 24 11:57:50 Macer: please shut up! this whole topic is messed up enough without your nonsense Jun 24 11:58:18 ZogG_laptop: link pls Jun 24 11:58:30 DocScrutinizer05: don't get mad at me. i didn't "steal" awards and devices from the communuity :) Jun 24 11:58:52 I'm stealing q from you if you continue Jun 24 11:58:53 Venemo: it's a long post with a lot offtopic as well =) Jun 24 11:59:06 Venemo: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85003 Jun 24 11:59:27 q? Jun 24 12:00:48 ZogG did have a point. seems wrong that the judges were allowed to choose amongst themselves Jun 24 12:00:57 hm whatabout "/topic $TOPIC | no more CA discussions, it's over" ? Jun 24 12:01:02 Venemo: i and few guys made nice point before but i would sugest to read from where itsnotabigtrucnk jumped in Jun 24 12:01:11 I mean honestly it's too late to complain Jun 24 12:01:15 that's quite obviously absolutely wrong practice Jun 24 12:01:21 Macer: than speak up, they just used that most people got silent Jun 24 12:01:58 oh no need... i am not a developer and quite honestly have contributed nothing to the maemo community tbh Jun 24 12:02:02 that's why I say "quim should have given them their 5 devices that traditionally belong to council, to do their 'job'" Jun 24 12:02:09 other than using it ;) Jun 24 12:02:28 but yeah... judges who put their names in ... that seems a bit shady Jun 24 12:03:02 merlin1991: why would it be too late, i think if half community speak up, even if they do not go back, at least community would know how people are against. just now they think it's 3 people so they call us trolls and other use political oral skills to speak around problem with no straight answer. But we need people to see what actually happened there Jun 24 12:03:05 especially for someone who worked endless nights making somthing and didnt get one Jun 24 12:03:56 ZogG_laptop: no we need to get a proper plan for post nokia maemo.org so people one year in the future can actually care what happened here Jun 24 12:04:08 s/care/read/ Jun 24 12:04:08 merlin1991 meant: ZogG_laptop: no we need to get a proper plan for post nokia maemo.org so people one year in the future can actually read what happened here Jun 24 12:04:50 Macer: i think rzr itsnotabigtrunck or e-eyes deserve it more than self nominated people. as well as you can see for example e-eyes wanted n950 to support it with nitroid and there is no way he can buy one Jun 24 12:05:13 nitroid != maemo Jun 24 12:05:15 but tbh, nitroid isn't maemo. Jun 24 12:05:29 merlin1991: with no present we can't have future. it's wrong to let it go. you let it go once, it would happen again. check Russia situation now =) even meetings are forbidden =P Jun 24 12:05:32 ZogG_laptop: nitroid is nothing but rouble, Jun 24 12:05:46 N950 nitroid support? Wtf for? Jun 24 12:05:56 It is barely supported by harmattan. Jun 24 12:06:13 zeq_laptop: actually dual boot that give you opportunity to run android apps on n9, as well as parts of bme he reverse ingineered =) Jun 24 12:06:13 You are whinging like a butthurt child. Jun 24 12:06:36 vi__: you see, the way you talk and i talk are different Jun 24 12:06:52 HOW could the council have won? They were told by quim to choose winners. Jun 24 12:07:08 ZogG_laptop: Yes, I don't hide my true meaning with platitudes. Jun 24 12:07:29 If they are not alowed to enter the competiton then they could not win. Jun 24 12:07:32 vi__: everyone even those who want to let it go see that it's wrong, even council knew when they decided to participate, but still they wanted phones more to give a f Jun 24 12:08:12 vi__: let's say they were allowed and they were there, and i think inception made a lot of more contribution last year =) Jun 24 12:08:34 ORLY? Jun 24 12:08:49 yes Jun 24 12:09:03 vi__: please no offense Jun 24 12:09:21 ZogG_laptop: it was bad politics for sure, but the council members certainly had merit. How can anything different be claimed? Jun 24 12:10:08 The wouldn't be the council if they weren't recognised as community leaders! Jun 24 12:10:09 so anyway Jun 24 12:10:20 zeq_laptop: my point was politics, but if we got personal. i see 5 councils choosen from 7 for 1 month, and people who worked all last year on harmattan and helped a lot on #harmattan as well and TMO Jun 24 12:10:22 ZogG_laptop: go and have a part in the coding competition Jun 24 12:10:59 Venemo: it's not about me, i won in other competition, and i never told i deserve community award =) Jun 24 12:11:16 anyway, I think I've managed to finish the linaro-4.7 scratchbox toolchain integration :) Jun 24 12:11:46 hm Jun 24 12:12:10 does ecoach REQUIRE a net connection to track gps speed/distance? Jun 24 12:12:33 i don't have a sim in it and haven't gotten a new arm band for my lumia 900 Jun 24 12:12:41 Venemo: i don't feel doing anything after this... so last thing i'll do is wiki post i promissed woody and few guys and this is it ... =\ Jun 24 12:12:56 zeq_laptop: just watch out if you use qt with newer gcc, freemangordon ran into some bumps, but I don't remember the fix anymore Jun 24 12:13:53 a) council *always* needs devices, otherwise they don't know their core topic b) sure throwing their hats into a competition they are the judges as well waqs a terribly bad practice c) NOW we can't do ANYTHING about it, as the incorrect behaviour already happened, damage done. d) when council acts stupid, it is useless to discuss merits and criteria of the award selection, we need to discuss why council didn't ask for **guidance** Jun 24 12:14:11 guess i will find out by myseld Jun 24 12:14:44 merlin1991: I'll be sure to test it before letting it out in the wild :) Jun 24 12:15:31 DocScrutinizer: they do ask in maillist, after there were few people on TMO telling it's not right. By telling that reasonable people on maillist and not at TMO. And i see the problem if you let it happen once it would happen more times Jun 24 12:15:34 DocScrutinizer05: as I said, bad politics Jun 24 12:16:03 yes Jun 24 12:16:19 council acted idiotic Jun 24 12:16:33 one might even wonder whether the whole point of the "competition" was to sow seeds of division Jun 24 12:16:44 indeed Jun 24 12:16:49 it feels like Jun 24 12:16:51 /s/they/as you ignore me i'll send tru bot =). They/ Jun 24 12:16:59 /s/they/as you ignore me i'll send tru bot They/ Jun 24 12:17:08 " council *always* needs devices, otherwise they don't know their core topic " well, maybe N9 for all of them, or max 1. would have been a better choise, as there not more than 500 people with an N950, iirc. But meh. Jun 24 12:17:08 hmm doesn't matter than Jun 24 12:17:39 damm. the council should've asked the community: "hey, is it a problem if we choose ourselves too?" the community would have voted: "no problem, sure" + everyone would've been happy that they're so honest and everything. Jun 24 12:17:57 end result would be the same, except we wouldn't bash them now Jun 24 12:18:02 NIN101: debatable, yes Jun 24 12:18:11 Venemo: they mentioned it btw, but noone follows everything Jun 24 12:18:23 Venemo: did you read the mailing list? Jun 24 12:18:56 I used to, but unsubscribed about a year ago due to it being kinda boring and unconstructive Jun 24 12:20:37 Venemo: they should have told community "there Quim gives us 25 devices. 5 we'll keep for reference purposes at council, and use them. 10 we keep in a pool to hand out in case of "emergencies" to projects (e.g. when a device breaks and project gets stuck without replacement). The rest will be handed out to users we feel have merits and deserve it" period Jun 24 12:21:07 that would've been good too. Jun 24 12:21:15 DocScrutinizer: i think nokia decided what the award would be for Jun 24 12:21:29 I don't think so Jun 24 12:21:32 i need to go now. =\ Jun 24 12:21:34 anyway, this whole shit is exactly the reason why I didn't even care about community awards. Jun 24 12:21:50 DocScrutinizer: few of awards are managed by qgil Jun 24 12:22:12 Venemo: that's why it's important as less devs would care about community =\ Jun 24 12:22:13 I didn't participate in the community because I wanted a device. so anyway, that's ok with me. Jun 24 12:22:18 Venemo: well a lot of people do and now they are saying some really shitty things on the forum. Jun 24 12:22:31 not the award is the problem, the extremely stupidly acting council is Jun 24 12:22:35 yup. Jun 24 12:23:00 that was my point before they started to attack personally Jun 24 12:23:13 so anyway Jun 24 12:23:23 but they choosed to answer those people who personal attack them =) Jun 24 12:23:29 I've read 13 pages of blahblah in that topic, and it has no use at all Jun 24 12:23:38 I have no objections whatsoever against council keeping devices - they need them. Alas they decided to put their merit on the benchmark, instead of plain stating "we need them, we keep them" Jun 24 12:24:36 Venemo: exactly Jun 24 12:25:04 the whole thread is exacerbating things Jun 24 12:25:24 it makes _everybody_ feel bad Jun 24 12:25:43 triggers name calling, accusations, shouting and whining Jun 24 12:26:49 and every semi-sane community member turning his back on the thread and possibly the community at large, while silently thinking "WTF?! ¼²¼€¹€@" Jun 24 12:28:35 well Jun 24 12:28:45 let me see if ecoach can work without a data connection Jun 24 12:28:46 instead of asking "the old guys" i.e. the ex-council which are all around and more than willing to help, the recent council in their hybris decided to invent all new, enforce new rules, and do things their very own new stupid way Jun 24 12:29:06 that's the result they get for that, and well it doesn't come by surprise Jun 24 12:29:36 DocScrutinizer05: that would be quite a nice way to organize it next time Jun 24 12:34:50 <_PanzerSajt> Hy! Can somebody explain me how TV-out works in N900? I'm interested in the kernel level and sysfs level. I'm asking this because I would like to find out whether TV-works on N900 with Ubuntu installed on SD card. Jun 24 12:35:14 yay Jun 24 12:35:38 AN N900 QUESTION!!!! Jun 24 12:36:14 <_PanzerSajt> this channel stands for n900 question, isn't it? Jun 24 12:36:28 _PanzerSajt: I'm not sure, but _maybe_ javispedro knows a bit about it. alas he's dropping by here really rarely during the last 4+ weeks Jun 24 12:36:33 vi__: RING THE NINE BELLS!!! Jun 24 12:37:06 _PanzerSajt: yes, sure. You're absolutely right in asking this question here Jun 24 12:37:17 <_PanzerSajt> ok thanks ;) Jun 24 12:37:27 it's a quite demanding question though Jun 24 12:37:40 I admit I have no clue Jun 24 12:37:42 <_PanzerSajt> yes I know Jun 24 12:38:12 _PanzerSajt; i suspect it wont be plug and play in ubuntu. It's also interesting to note that when playing videos it's setup differently, as the content displayed on tv doesn't match what's on n900 :) Jun 24 12:38:21 <_PanzerSajt> I have already found some clues that it might work "out of the box" Jun 24 12:38:43 why don't you just try? Jun 24 12:38:53 <_PanzerSajt> I was trying Jun 24 12:38:56 yes, there are separate framebuffers and resolutions for TVout and LCD Jun 24 12:39:28 and I think some worker-thread in kernel that does the scaling/copying Jun 24 12:40:20 <_PanzerSajt> so what I have found out already: Jun 24 12:40:40 raster knows a friggin lot about it, alas he's really not interested in N900 anymore Jun 24 12:40:58 <_PanzerSajt> under ubuntu: /sys/devices/omapdss/ and there are two displays Jun 24 12:41:09 yes, 2 displays Jun 24 12:41:22 <_PanzerSajt> display 0 is enabled (lcd) Jun 24 12:41:36 2 "framebuffers" Jun 24 12:41:53 <_PanzerSajt> but when I do the same to display1 nothing seems to happen Jun 24 12:42:48 <_PanzerSajt> there's a file called "enabled" Jun 24 12:43:03 <_PanzerSajt> and inside it show 1 for display0 Jun 24 12:43:12 <_PanzerSajt> and nothing for display1 Jun 24 12:44:29 For video atleast, the scaling and conversion is all hw Jun 24 12:44:44 <_PanzerSajt> DSP is working Jun 24 12:44:58 <_PanzerSajt> but the sgx530 isn't Jun 24 12:45:00 IroN900:~# ls /sys/devices/platform/omapdss/ Jun 24 12:45:01 bus display0 display1 driver manager0 manager1 microamps_requested_vdac modalias overlay0 overlay1 overlay2 power subsystem uevent Jun 24 12:45:54 IroN900:~# ls /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/ Jun 24 12:45:56 bus driver graphics:fb0 graphics:fb1 graphics:fb2 modalias power subsystem uevent Jun 24 12:48:15 ShadowJK: yes, sure it's scaling and copying with the DSP/gfx-accel Jun 24 12:48:35 ok, here's my 20 cents on this mess. http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1226693&postcount=387 now let's move on. Jun 24 12:48:55 dss Jun 24 12:52:15 _PanzerSajt: I suggest you repeat your question in a few (6?) hours. might actually be the wrong time for TZ like US Jun 24 12:52:42 ~seen raster Jun 24 12:52:50 raster <~raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 92d 9h 4m 35s ago, saying: 'open is just a bonus'. Jun 24 12:53:11 :) Jun 24 12:53:26 <_PanzerSajt> DocScrutinizer, thanks for the advise Jun 24 12:54:47 I however know he's online. He _might_ be willing to help when you query him with generic OMAP3430 related question, esp when you refer to ubuntu and put no emphasis on N900 (there's beagleboard as well, with omap - btw also a channel where you could ask) Jun 24 12:55:03 jesus Jun 24 12:55:10 lumia 900 gps lock... 5s Jun 24 12:55:17 n900 gps lock... never Jun 24 12:55:19 pffff Jun 24 12:55:23 lol Jun 24 12:55:51 i have to go buy a new armband for my lumia 900.. the n900 just doesn't seem to fair very well without a sim for running Jun 24 12:56:27 <_PanzerSajt> DocScrutinizer, thanks for pointing out wider product range instead of only one device Jun 24 12:56:43 yw Jun 24 12:57:05 can't work out with the n900 Jun 24 12:57:14 well... running at least.. i should buy a heart rate monitor while i'm at it Jun 24 12:57:31 why not Jun 24 12:57:38 its heavy enough for lifting weights :p Jun 24 12:58:04 heh Jun 24 12:58:16 i need it for running Jun 24 12:58:27 i just took the damn thing outside for 20mins and it never locked for the gps Jun 24 12:58:43 i just gave up.. i'm going to wait for the stores to open to see if i can find an armband that works with my lumia 900 Jun 24 13:01:57 <_PanzerSajt> Regarding GPS. Has anyone ever tried to attach a GPS antenna to the mainboard? http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#External_antennas Jun 24 13:04:36 <_PanzerSajt> DocScrutinizer, can you provide me some more details about / sys/devices/platform/omapfb/graphics:fb0; fb1; fb2 ? Jun 24 13:06:41 _PanzerSajt: I *think* this should work Jun 24 13:06:52 (attach external GPS ant) Jun 24 13:08:02 <_PanzerSajt> that was my thought also Jun 24 13:08:03 _PanzerSajt: the question is if you can reach the flimsy receptacle, and if you actually want to test the specified 100 mating rounds Jun 24 13:09:10 iirc Estel_is working on a new housing, with connector extenders and proper external receptacles. Maybe ask him Jun 24 13:09:28 new housing for what? Jun 24 13:09:33 n900 Jun 24 13:10:16 lol, for what purpose? Jun 24 13:10:29 don't ask me, ask him Jun 24 13:10:38 Estel_, you've been asked Jun 24 13:11:09 Venemo: check his tmo 'signature' Jun 24 13:14:07 I'd be interested in a thinner housing, without keyboard, and attaching a capacitive touchscreen Jun 24 13:14:09 lol Jun 24 13:14:21 get a n9! Jun 24 13:14:48 I have one. Jun 24 13:15:19 but that way, I could use the N900 for hacking around with mer & nemo Jun 24 13:16:04 argh :( Jun 24 13:16:22 Venemo: I want the opposite for something like a N9 Jun 24 13:16:22 well, I still could, but it's inconvenient to use the resistive screen anyway. Jun 24 13:16:40 FIQ|n900, they have the same hw basically. Jun 24 13:16:44 that's why I haven't bought it (no keyboard..) Jun 24 13:29:49 freemangordon: http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo/linaro-4.7-2012.06-fremantle-arm7.tar.bz2 Jun 24 14:01:39 DocScrutinizer05; in Helsinki yesterday Jun 24 14:01:54 \o/ Jun 24 14:22:12 ~usbfix Jun 24 14:22:13 rumour has it, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) Jun 24 14:25:43 Two N950 fatalities? Jun 24 14:26:02 MohammadAG: wrong channel :P Jun 24 14:29:37 hiemanshu: Oh Jun 24 14:29:43 hiemanshu: Which channel? Jun 24 14:30:10 MohammadAG: mhd Jun 24 14:46:31 game of thrones! Jun 24 14:46:42 heh Jun 24 15:06:11 damn the blonde in game of thrones is hot Jun 24 15:06:18 and i'm not a very big fan of blondes Jun 24 15:28:21 hm does rsync have any implementation like dd to listen for some signal to give me stats about the transfer? Jun 24 15:29:58 -v, --verbose Jun 24 15:29:58 This option increases the amount of information you are given during the transfer. By default, rsync works Jun 24 15:29:58 silently. A single -v will give you information about what files are being transferred and a brief summary Jun 24 15:29:58 at the end. Two -v options will give you information on what files are being skipped and slightly more Jun 24 15:29:58 information at the end. More than two -v options should only be used if you are debugging rsync. Jun 24 15:30:36 I was looking for some X mb to transfer left Jun 24 15:31:23 rsync --progress Jun 24 15:33:31 hehe dl with 3,9 MiB/s from my server :D Jun 24 16:09:56 vi__: Hey -- I was to ask, are you still using compcache on n900? What size/params did you settle on? Jun 24 16:42:20 Further to the discussion a couple of days ago, I've been researching the different ABIs/ISAs on the Cortex-a8. It turns out the performance difference between float-abi=softfp and float-abi=hard is around 40%, with a further 2x-3x(!) improvement of NEON over VFPv3. An obvious downside of float-abi=hard, is to support it we'd need a multilib glibc build, interesting though, none the less. Jun 24 16:42:44 http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort/ Jun 24 16:44:59 zeq: well, it's expected for softfp to be slow Jun 24 16:45:25 softfp is a real FP ABI Jun 24 16:45:45 yeah, but with slow calling conventions Jun 24 16:45:52 yes Jun 24 16:45:57 and ability to fall back in case of lack of fp Jun 24 16:46:07 in theory Jun 24 16:46:30 but i don't see how neon would be faster than vfp3 Jun 24 16:46:42 unless you are doing something that can be optimised for simd Jun 24 16:46:54 cortex-a8 doesn't have a real vfp3 Jun 24 16:47:20 just a cut down version, NEON being the primary FPU Jun 24 16:47:57 well, i could understand a bit of difference Jun 24 16:48:00 but not 2-3x Jun 24 16:48:57 what is your benchmark exactly Jun 24 16:49:37 Some devices such as the ARM Cortex-A8 have a cut-down VFPLite module instead of a full VFP module, and require roughly ten times more clock cycles per float operation.[32] Other floating-point and/or SIMD coprocessors found in ARM-based processors include FPA, FPE, iwMMXt. They provide some of the same functionality as VFP but are not opcode-compatible with it. Jun 24 16:49:42 from wikipedia Jun 24 16:50:36 Genesi USA, Inc. did a proof-of-concept rebuild of Ubuntu karmic (9.10)'s armel port with the hard-floating. They noticed important wins (in the order of 40% performance improvement) in floating-point heavy applications/libraries such as mesa, with a Cortex-A8 CPU. Jun 24 16:50:43 from the debian link ^^^ Jun 24 16:51:14 It is also possible to use NEON instructions for regular scalar floating point code, and this can give significant (2-3x) speedup on Cortex-A8 hardware. However GCC does not currently implement this, and it is not always applicable as NEON instructions are not fully IEEE compliant. Jun 24 16:51:20 hmm, if they are saying that vfplite is 10x slower than vfpv3 Jun 24 16:51:35 and you are saying that vfplite is 3x slower than neon Jun 24 16:51:44 then vfpv3 has to be 3x faster than neon Jun 24 16:52:14 well but question remains Jun 24 16:52:20 that's the thing about benchmarks Jun 24 16:52:20 is it really important thing Jun 24 16:52:29 how many things use fp Jun 24 16:52:33 on real phone Jun 24 16:52:36 qt ;) Jun 24 16:52:51 if you have hardware 3d Jun 24 16:52:56 then mesa argument is gone Jun 24 16:53:49 hildon-desktop is pretty heavy on FP, though as DocScrutinizer05 says, it probably shouldn't be. Jun 24 16:54:14 saying that Jun 24 16:54:17 html rendering engines Jun 24 16:54:24 hmm Jun 24 16:54:26 i've got to go Jun 24 16:54:27 dunno why though Jun 24 16:54:43 ok jacekowski, bye Jun 24 16:58:02 zeq: Interesting. Jun 24 17:01:43 Raimu: it'd be a major ABI break to support it Jun 24 17:01:46 Raimu: it'd be a major ABI break to support it Jun 24 17:03:03 zeq: Yes, I can see that. Jun 24 17:03:21 it's not at all viable to have everything multi-lib Jun 24 17:03:40 not on an N900 anyway! Jun 24 17:03:57 Yep. Hence "interesting", not "dancing the jig in the rain". Jun 24 17:04:38 shame Nokia didn't make it float=hard from the start Jun 24 17:05:03 Probably wasn't thought viable then. Jun 24 17:06:47 maybe it was for compatibilty for 3rd-party packages Jun 24 17:06:52 such as the flashplayer Jun 24 17:20:30 I think meego was one of the first to move to hardfp abi Jun 24 17:21:47 ~abi Jun 24 17:21:48 [abi] Application Binary Interface Jun 24 17:21:53 ~api Jun 24 17:23:07 I think the biggest hw constraint on N900 is the ram size, so multilib type things are pushing it in that area Jun 24 17:23:21 and also having both gtk and qt is already pushing ram :/ Jun 24 17:24:13 for maemo hardfloat is a non-starter. it would work with easy-debain though. Jun 24 17:24:18 yea, but of course, best solution, would be to have device with more ram ;) Jun 24 17:24:30 thumb is helping a lot with RAM Jun 24 17:24:31 vi_: API is app programming interface. Jun 24 17:28:40 mer should be quite a bit quicker than maemo then Jun 24 17:29:27 there is an experimental Hildon-Desktop Mer Jun 24 17:29:38 (for the N900) Jun 24 17:29:51 anybody tried it? Jun 24 17:29:53 Cordia, but it's going to be in beta stage around 2157, earlier Jun 24 17:30:15 AFAIk 2 people work on them, and are quite uninterested in getting more help :) Jun 24 17:30:23 sounds quite low for creating UI Jun 24 17:30:29 I think overall meegoce/nemo uses more ram :/ Jun 24 17:30:49 Nemo got many quierks, witohut any disrespect for people working on it Jun 24 17:31:00 IMO, it's less usable than hildon not only by advancement, but by design Jun 24 17:31:05 feel "dumbed down" Jun 24 17:31:05 I've not tried it Jun 24 17:31:20 I agree Jun 24 17:31:23 only got the one devic Jun 24 17:31:24 Nemo is not good. Jun 24 17:31:25 Estel_, u're trying to make friends :) Jun 24 17:31:29 s/devic/device/ Jun 24 17:31:29 zeq meant: only got the one device Jun 24 17:31:30 well, Mer hardware adaptation for N900 is better than for N9/N950 (!), but user itnerface is optimised for multitouch (!!) Jun 24 17:31:39 yes Jun 24 17:31:42 the browser is unusable Jun 24 17:31:43 rzr, whatever You mean? Jun 24 17:31:43 you can't zoom Jun 24 17:31:49 since you don't have multitouch Jun 24 17:32:11 Honestly, Nermo feels like smartphone Ui, not mobile computer one. I.e "symbianish" Jun 24 17:32:30 nothing personnal but the way you're kinda agressive sometimes :) Jun 24 17:32:49 well nevermind , I was just teasing you Jun 24 17:32:50 rzr, I preffer word "sharp to the merit" ;) Jun 24 17:33:02 I know, noticed :DF Jun 24 17:33:04 no problem Jun 24 17:33:10 ~tease Jun 24 17:37:00 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/06/24/1659215/rim-considers-spinning-off-handset-business-from-messaging?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=twitter Jun 24 17:38:39 http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo/linaro-4.7-2012.06-fremantle-armv7a.tar.bz2 Jun 24 17:38:48 Estel_, are u in contact w/ xfade for obs ? Jun 24 17:38:56 yes. Jun 24 17:39:44 can you estimate when meego's obs will be shut off ? Jun 24 17:41:10 having a obs up and running for m5 would be awsome Jun 24 17:41:21 but this will cost lot of time and/or money Jun 24 17:41:53 i know someone who might be interested setting up a build farm Jun 24 17:41:54 zeq: thats the toolchain? Jun 24 17:43:48 yep, that's what I've been working on Jun 24 17:47:46 testers welcome Jun 24 17:49:06 continuing game of thrones Jun 24 17:49:15 episode 5! wooo! Jun 24 18:14:27 rzr: question is, do you need a farm Jun 24 18:14:43 rzr: i mean, for most of maemo building needs a single decent server will suffice Jun 24 18:15:02 maybe amazon cloud or something Jun 24 18:19:55 since we were nemo bashing earlier, i totally agree that it feels dumbed down, it essentially is mer core + qt apps, but no desktop widgets or anything integrated deeply into the system Jun 24 18:20:07 in other words iphone + concurrent processes Jun 24 18:22:12 merlin1991: does it run on n9? Jun 24 18:22:26 afaik it does Jun 24 18:22:35 I only ever used it on the n900 though Jun 24 18:22:55 but as far as I understand it the only difference is orientation / resolution for the whole ui experience Jun 24 18:25:15 + N9/N950 isn't fully supported by Mer (underlying deeper than Nemo, which is UI), at hardware adaptation level Jun 24 18:25:43 ironically, N900 is more supporte dby Mer than any device existing, yet, support from Nemo - aka UI - is worse Jun 24 18:26:05 I've been talking with Stskeeps about it, and I msut say that You can hardly blame Mer or Nemoi devs for that Jun 24 18:26:19 it's about Nokia ADHD and Intel betrayal, to say at least ;) Jun 24 18:28:50 because mer was reborn between maemo5 and meego =) Jun 24 18:28:58 and than after meego got dumped Jun 24 18:29:14 not exactly, but it's off-topic anyway, so I won't elaborate Jun 24 18:29:36 fact is, that now we have N9/N950 supported quite well, yet not fully, and supported by Nemo (despite being dumbed down interface) Jun 24 18:29:41