**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 25 02:59:58 2012 Jun 25 03:55:59 Hey guys, does anyone know about ReplayGain on the N900? Jun 25 03:57:00 Like, some way to provide a volume-compensation value on a per-track basis to the stock media player(potentially with a custom module/addon) Jun 25 06:05:20 does anyone actually use the date picker you get after removing the battery for too long? Jun 25 06:07:00 i mean, i just tap "ok" and then connect to the internet and run ntpd -d Jun 25 06:19:18 freemangordon: The fennec repo is now at https://github.com/sjnewbury/fennec-qt-maemo5 Jun 25 06:20:37 freemangordon: When you have your account setup let me know and I'll add you as a collaborator. I've pushed the SetHighAccuracy and QtSensors prefix patches. Jun 25 07:50:34 freemangordon: something's wrong with the libstdc++ in my toolchain build :( (missing symbols) Jun 25 08:57:47 zeq: I recall FMG had a problem with malformed symbols in latest gcc, [when compil(ing|ed for) thumb] Jun 25 09:02:11 DocScrutinizer05: You can build gcc --with-mode=thumb which results in the toolchain libs etc being built as thumb, default is to build as ARM, which is what I did. Something went wrong with the linking of stdc++, I'm investigating... Jun 25 09:03:05 Generating a sb-linaro-4.6-2012.06 toolchain now, maybe I'll have more luck with that Jun 25 09:08:29 4.6-2012.06 seems ok Jun 25 09:08:49 zeq: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2012-06-07.log.html#t2012-06-07T19:33:31 Jun 25 09:10:15 looks like a different bug Jun 25 09:11:04 DocScrutinizer05: I think something must have just gone awry with th 4.7 build Jun 25 09:11:59 I can't believe linaro would release a broken g++ compiler! Jun 25 09:12:45 :nod: Jun 25 09:13:03 here's another link: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2012-06-07.log.html#t2012-06-07T01:08:31 Jun 25 09:13:49 no clue if it's even related, just felt like pointing you at it Jun 25 09:15:07 It's probably because I used the sb-toolchain-extras from the darcs repo (following the scratchbox guide) rather than the (much newer) latest stable tarball. Jun 25 09:15:28 which is what I just did for the working 4.6 build Jun 25 09:16:15 DocScrutinizer05: two logs you are pointing to are one and the same problem, but with reverse order, i.e. first link is the solution, second - the problem :) Jun 25 09:16:28 freemangordon: hi Jun 25 09:16:32 hi Jun 25 09:17:04 as just mentioned ^^ I have a working linaro-4.6 toolchain, the 4.7 one from yesterday isn't working for c++ Jun 25 09:17:19 g++ abends or what? Jun 25 09:17:20 freemangordon: quite possible, and hi! Jun 25 09:17:37 libstc++ is missing symbols somehow Jun 25 09:18:16 exact same config (except imported with a different sb-toolchain-extras) built 4.6 fine Jun 25 09:18:31 Goodmorning gentlemen. Jun 25 09:18:35 I'm trying 4.7 again now Jun 25 09:18:41 zeq: which symbols? Jun 25 09:18:46 freemangordon: another topic: do you feel like I'm generally averse about your thumb hacking? Jun 25 09:19:11 freemangordon: I think most of them Jun 25 09:19:12 wait for google to translate averse :) Jun 25 09:19:32 std::istream for example Jun 25 09:19:43 ~dict averse Jun 25 09:19:45 Dictionary 'averse' (1 of 4): abhorrent, afraid, allergic, anti, antipathetic, at odds, averse to, backward, balky, contrary, cursory, differing, disaffected, disagreeing, disenchanted, disgusted, disinclined, disobedient, displeased, forced, fractious, hating, hesitant, hostile, ill-disposed, indisposed, indocile, involuntary, loath, loathing, mutinous, not charmed, opposed, perfunctory, perverse, put off, quailing, recalcitrant, recoiling, ... Jun 25 09:20:19 I think infobot dictionary is full of shit. Jun 25 09:20:51 He meant: Jun 25 09:20:53 freemangordon: the fennec repo is ready for when you give me your github username :) Jun 25 09:21:09 vi_: yeah, got it Jun 25 09:21:16 'Do you think I ama hating when you be rolling on the thumb2 blunt homey?' Jun 25 09:21:35 :D:D:D Jun 25 09:21:40 zeq: thanks Jun 25 09:22:16 unfortunately I have to suspend fennec for a while, until I fix some packages (KPS and wireless-compat) Jun 25 09:22:38 DocScrutinizer05: TBH I don't know what to think Jun 25 09:23:03 But in general I assume you are Jun 25 09:23:25 freemangordon: I adore your work, I'm just playing advocado diaboli when it comes to deploying stuff to generall unwashed masses Jun 25 09:23:38 yeah, i know that Jun 25 09:23:55 KPS? Jun 25 09:23:59 So much bromance in here. Jun 25 09:24:08 ~KPS Jun 25 09:24:14 DocScrutinizer05: your second name is The Negatron Man :P Jun 25 09:24:21 kerel-power-settings Jun 25 09:24:23 maybe :-D Jun 25 09:24:26 zeq: Kernel-power-settings. Jun 25 09:24:30 ah ok Jun 25 09:24:36 I can live with that, you need those old farts as well Jun 25 09:24:42 zeq: A script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc. Jun 25 09:24:48 yup Jun 25 09:24:54 ^frequencies Jun 25 09:25:05 I use it to undervolt ;) Jun 25 09:25:38 DocScrutinizer05: I can live with you being a negatron man too, after all I am doing whatever I want :devil: Jun 25 09:26:03 ~KPS is kerneöpower-settings, a script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc. Jun 25 09:26:03 DocScrutinizer05: okay Jun 25 09:26:09 zeq: I do not use it. It has a funky bug that is very hard to trigger that most do not believe in the existence thereof. Jun 25 09:26:19 dafaq Jun 25 09:26:54 infobot: no, KPS is kernel-power-settings, a script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc. Jun 25 09:26:55 DocScrutinizer05: okay Jun 25 09:27:07 vi_: I was thinking to enable SR for kernel-cssu by default (in /etc/pmconfig) Jun 25 09:27:23 freemangordon: if you push your fennec patches I can work on it when I have a little more time Jun 25 09:27:30 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how typos creep in on c&p Jun 25 09:27:50 zeq: I don't anything usable so far :( Jun 25 09:28:03 s/ anything/ have anything/ Jun 25 09:28:04 freemangordon meant: zeq: I don't have anything usable so far :( Jun 25 09:28:42 freemangordon: whatever you have is something to work from, email me it if it's easier Jun 25 09:28:57 I was on the seaside during the weekend, so nothing changed Jun 25 09:29:37 zeq: ok Jun 25 09:29:49 will do it in the evening Jun 25 09:29:57 stevesnewburyorguk Jun 25 09:30:33 zeq: but i'd rater clone that on github and do a MR Jun 25 09:30:50 ~no, KPS is kernel-power-settings, a script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc. Jun 25 09:31:06 I don't know how to ask git to email a patch and not interested to learn :) Jun 25 09:31:08 ~literal no, KPS Jun 25 09:31:19 freemangordon: whatever suits Jun 25 09:31:23 ok Jun 25 09:31:34 * freemangordon is afk Jun 25 09:31:51 ~botsback Jun 25 09:31:57 ~botsnack Jun 25 09:31:57 DocScrutinizer05: thanks Jun 25 09:32:12 vi_: so what's the KPS bug? Jun 25 09:32:21 freemangordon: I think that may be unwise without considering if KPS sets it to 0 before applying new settings. Jun 25 09:32:42 fwiw I'm using SR without problems Jun 25 09:32:48 If someone were to set 250->1000 with SR@1 there be instareboots. Jun 25 09:32:55 ^insta-reboot. Jun 25 09:33:08 vi_: probably for the best ;) Jun 25 09:34:01 zeq: Sometimes KPS will spazz out and start causing ~7000 wakeups per second and keeping the CPU out of C4. This kills the battery in ~6 hours. Jun 25 09:34:15 Only some people have reported this happening though. Jun 25 09:34:23 how weird Jun 25 09:34:36 The only way to stop it from happening is to apt remove KPS. Jun 25 09:35:06 My battery is getting worn out but it still lasts all day Jun 25 09:35:07 Admitedly this was KPS from ~1 year ago. Things MAY have changed since then. Jun 25 09:35:44 Either way, I prefer not to use KPS and just 'echo' my values to the relevant /sys/ entry. Jun 25 09:35:56 And set most stuff from /etc/pmconfig. Jun 25 09:36:21 zeq: Yeah I use SR all the time as well. Jun 25 09:36:25 zeq: It rulez. Jun 25 09:37:11 I'd really like to see hard numbers Jun 25 09:37:13 Advantage of KPS though is it does allow a fallback if a stupid value was set to default Jun 25 09:37:20 zeq: But there again, 'xterm' is my favourite app! Jun 25 09:37:29 zeq: correct. Jun 25 09:37:31 mine too Jun 25 09:37:31 how much in mA avg it does, on a 'normal' system Jun 25 09:37:33 zeq: My soultion: Jun 25 09:37:39 Dont be stupid. Jun 25 09:37:56 DocScrutinizer05: We do not agree on this one remember. Jun 25 09:38:07 DocScrutinizer05: Do you believe in undervolting? Jun 25 09:38:17 you might not agree on me liking to see numbers :-D Jun 25 09:38:18 its not a religion Jun 25 09:38:30 DocScrutinizer05: That is less volts==less power used. Jun 25 09:38:33 fail Jun 25 09:39:11 DocScrutinizer05: Ok, I guess a good test would be: Jun 25 09:39:15 vi_: yes, that's absolutely right Jun 25 09:39:27 1. Read mAH Jun 25 09:39:41 2. Play mp3 with mplayer for 30 minutes Jun 25 09:39:45 3. Read mAH Jun 25 09:39:55 4. Enable SR Jun 25 09:39:59 5. Play mp3 with mplayer for 30 minutes Jun 25 09:40:04 6. Read mAH Jun 25 09:40:09 SAME mp3, at SAME volume Jun 25 09:40:10 7. Compare Jun 25 09:40:16 DocScrutinizer05: obviously. Jun 25 09:40:19 :nod: Jun 25 09:40:37 DocScrutinizer05: It would be an invalid test if ANYTHING other than SR was changed. Jun 25 09:40:46 obviously Jun 25 09:40:49 :-) Jun 25 09:40:58 Yay science. Jun 25 09:41:14 somewhere, there is someone who just knows this shit Jun 25 09:41:28 DocScrutinizer05> vi_: yes, that's absolutely right Jun 25 09:42:35 yeah, we still fail to agree on disagreement Jun 25 09:42:42 ^either you are playing the longtroll or you must concede taht as less volts==less power used therefore; less power used==a lower mA. Jun 25 09:43:10 I'm just interested in quatity of the effect Jun 25 09:43:16 qantity Jun 25 09:43:32 nobody doubts the basic effect is true Jun 25 09:44:11 I do not have numbers at the moment but surely you must acknowledge:a=b AND b=c therefore a=c. Jun 25 09:44:33 is it that simple? Jun 25 09:44:34 I think I don't need to comment this Jun 25 09:45:01 That was not a bollean AND by the way. Jun 25 09:45:07 ^boolean. Jun 25 09:46:25 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if enabling SR might cause CPU overhead for switching regulators Jun 25 09:47:16 * DocScrutinizer05 ... and/or increased power consumption for transfer of commands via McBSP2(?) Jun 25 09:47:59 but that's not exactly been my question Jun 25 09:48:36 Fine. Jun 25 09:48:37 I just said, I'd like to see numbers, so we all know what we're talking about. No need for believe and religion in here Jun 25 09:48:39 FINE. Jun 25 09:48:51 I will write a bloody script to do this. Jun 25 09:48:56 You get your numbers see. Jun 25 09:48:58 :-D Jun 25 09:49:00 The numbers wont lie Jun 25 09:49:03 Then you will Jun 25 09:49:05 see Jun 25 09:49:05 many thanks! Jun 25 09:49:08 YOU WILL ALL SEE> Jun 25 09:49:16 :D Jun 25 09:50:22 N900 will be in offline mode, screen off at half volume with headphones plugged in. Jun 25 09:50:45 No other programs running. Jun 25 09:50:54 reboot inbetween? Jun 25 09:50:58 1 hour MP3. Jun 25 09:51:08 just for fun, and to get the numbers since that seems to be the theme, I'm thinking about building a multilib softfp+hard glibc. Jun 25 09:51:21 Lava_Croft: I cannot see a need for a midway reboot. Jun 25 09:51:37 never hurts to reboot inbetween two benchmarks Jun 25 09:51:38 assuming I can fit it on my rootfs Jun 25 09:51:54 run both mp3s after a clean boot and system has eased down Jun 25 09:51:55 zeq: have you not heard? eMMC is the new rootfs! Jun 25 09:52:13 vi_: oh yes, please keep screen off, it's controlled by ALS, this will spoil results Jun 25 09:52:25 vi_: wouldn't that require a reflash? Jun 25 09:52:50 Lava_Croft: Sure, Ok. The MP3 will be played 10 minutes after a reboot in offline mode. Jun 25 09:53:09 zeq: Nah, just a shitload of symlinks! Jun 25 09:53:22 vi_: not to annoy you, but just to make sure nobody can point a finger at anything:) Jun 25 09:53:37 make sure the planets are aligned too Jun 25 09:53:41 and cut up a goat Jun 25 09:53:56 Lava_Croft: There WILL be pointing, but I assure you it will not be fingers. Jun 25 09:54:21 looking at TMO, theres not much boners there to point with Jun 25 09:54:39 ok, getting silly Jun 25 09:55:23 The scripcantation will be performed in a pentagram of N900s joined by a token ethernet ring. Each point shall be lit with the flaming candle of an N810 notification LED. Jun 25 09:56:01 Lava_Croft: are you Lava_Croft from tremulous forums? Jun 25 09:56:23 used to be, yes Jun 25 09:56:26 Lava_Croft: if we want to go for the real thing, then you need a reboot before *each* test. Or we assume the system has reached a steady state regarding any such effects, after 2 or 3 days uptime, and playing 60min mp3 won't change it much. If you want to make sure you can do A, B, A, B tests and confirm your numbers for A1,2 and for B1,2 match Jun 25 09:56:30 im tremulous furniture Jun 25 09:56:46 vi_: tremulous forums are a bit of a dark place tho Jun 25 09:56:57 no idea what it looks like nowadays, i must admit Jun 25 09:57:20 Lava_Croft: Hellish. Jun 25 09:57:20 The whole game went to shit. Jun 25 09:57:29 There are no decent servers anymore and all the admins are f****** Jun 25 09:57:31 the game is fine, ive been with it nearly since its inception Jun 25 09:57:37 and servers and admins are not the game Jun 25 09:57:46 Lava_Croft: agreed, Jun 25 09:57:51 ^,/. Jun 25 09:57:58 ever heard of SatGNU? Jun 25 09:58:09 That is a US server innit? Jun 25 09:58:16 we ran a rather gestapo-administrated server from 2006 Jun 25 09:58:29 I recognise the name. Jun 25 09:58:30 games were fine there, but you had to act like a goddamn gestapo officer to keep people in line Jun 25 09:58:58 tremulous is kind of dead tho Jun 25 09:59:05 tyup Jun 25 09:59:07 vi_: oh, and please disable phone Jun 25 09:59:16 none of the original devs really care anymore, and if they care, its only because they are annoyed with tremulous Jun 25 09:59:27 bwahaha, just thinking about trem made me press 't' in order that I may 'speak' Jun 25 09:59:30 sad story tho, tremulous gameplay is still unique for a free game Jun 25 09:59:36 network/recamping can massively spoil your power consumption numbers Jun 25 09:59:45 heh, pressing T to talk has been an annoying 'error' since Quake Jun 25 09:59:49 DocScrutinizer05: obviously, phone will be in offline mode. Jun 25 09:59:55 ack Jun 25 10:00:00 tYou always end up like this Jun 25 10:00:12 DocScrutinizer05: Doing NOTHING but playing the MP3. Jun 25 10:00:31 DocScrutinizer05: I may appear to be totally green but I am no cabbage. Jun 25 10:00:45 cabbage comes in several colours Jun 25 10:01:04 vi_: just an idea: maybe playing mp3 is more workload on DSP than on CPU Jun 25 10:01:29 SR might have more impact on e.g. numbercrunching Jun 25 10:01:48 DocScrutinizer05: he's using mplayer, don't worry :) Jun 25 10:01:48 depending on whether DSP profits from SR same way as CPU does, or not Jun 25 10:01:55 hah Jun 25 10:02:29 zeq: ok :-) Jun 25 10:03:33 Lava_Croft: I got banned from my favourite server in the end anyway. Jun 25 10:03:56 Lava_Croft: I stole all the admin GUIDs and started 'fixing' things. Jun 25 10:04:02 vi_: never tought you're a vegetable. Just trying to pick up the pieces, to help Jun 25 10:04:10 vi_: oh, you are that person? Jun 25 10:04:14 DocScrutinizer05: twas a joke. Jun 25 10:04:31 bad behaviour to wreck people's house after they decide they dont want you in their house:< Jun 25 10:04:43 Lava_Croft: yup, THAT person. (unless of course you are referring to the only other person to have done that) Jun 25 10:04:49 i could be Jun 25 10:04:53 i dont know who that other person is Jun 25 10:04:59 vcxzet? Jun 25 10:05:04 Lava_Croft: Oh god, You should at least know the story before you condemn. Jun 25 10:05:14 vi_: was it your server Jun 25 10:05:19 where you got banned from Jun 25 10:05:23 No. Jun 25 10:05:26 case closed then. Jun 25 10:05:36 lets not discuss shit like this anyway, i mean come on Jun 25 10:05:42 those people dont deserve the attention :D Jun 25 10:05:45 Well I WAS left in charge by the server admin. Jun 25 10:05:56 WHo went absent. Jun 25 10:06:04 i have a simple rule: If its not your server, then dont bother Jun 25 10:06:19 He also left another kid with the same admin lvl. Jun 25 10:06:23 what server was it Jun 25 10:06:30 into the wild. Jun 25 10:07:35 The other people get power mad. Rise up and remove the admins. Jun 25 10:08:33 i solved that by just handing out the max admin level to everybody Jun 25 10:08:35 on the official servers Jun 25 10:08:52 you had friends giving admin status to friends etc etc Jun 25 10:09:05 Then you have kickban wars. Jun 25 10:09:20 i never stuck around for that shit Jun 25 10:10:01 Well, I was a victim if the kickban wars. SHould have walked away. Jun 25 10:10:57 The only other guy to do this was a guy from the 'one' clan. He is possibly the one you are thinking of, he went around fucking things up for everyone on EVERY server. Jun 25 10:11:28 well, there was a multitude of ways to fuck shit up on tremulous servers Jun 25 10:11:34 like spamming the servers with fake clients Jun 25 10:12:00 trem's original dev also is an n900 lover Jun 25 10:12:04 almost got him to port trem to n900 Jun 25 10:12:08 but thankgod he didnt bother Jun 25 10:12:43 heh, it has been suggested that it could be played as a ioquake3 mod with GLES. Jun 25 10:13:00 I even offerd a $50 bounty for the first person to do it once. Jun 25 10:13:00 probably wont run that well Jun 25 10:13:05 Back when I gave a fuck. Jun 25 10:13:07 same goes for Darkplaces, the Quake engine port Jun 25 10:13:46 tremulous would also be unplayable on n900 Jun 25 10:15:10 oh boy, dear tremulous Jun 25 10:15:13 Lava_Croft: you could be a builder. Jun 25 10:15:15 i wonder why i still regularly play that game Jun 25 10:15:21 vi_: yes, the only option basically Jun 25 10:15:33 Lava_Croft: Every team needs a good builder. Jun 25 10:15:44 Lava_Croft: Also fucking cheaters. Jun 25 10:15:52 i can say that without question there is no tremulous player who has been building longer than i have :) Jun 25 10:15:55 questionable honour Jun 25 10:15:58 Lava_Croft: The other reason I no longer play that shit. Jun 25 10:16:04 oh, barely any cheaters Jun 25 10:16:12 and if they cheat but still suck, i dont mind Jun 25 10:16:26 these days people play GPP, the 1.2 GamePlay Preview Jun 25 10:16:42 'these days' meaning past 2 years orso Jun 25 10:18:27 vi_: you are a euro, right? Jun 25 10:18:31 UK Jun 25 10:18:38 nice, a briton Jun 25 10:18:41 what server did you always play on? Jun 25 10:19:10 dont think the servers we/you used to play on still exist Jun 25 10:19:32 TBase->pornserv->various unnamed russian servers->POC clan server->into the wild (25 ping!) Jun 25 10:19:35 ah yes Jun 25 10:19:39 the Twins' server Jun 25 10:19:57 I suspect... Jun 25 10:20:02 these days there's two 'official' servers Jun 25 10:20:03 ...They were not really twins. Jun 25 10:20:06 i know Jun 25 10:20:34 T-Base was the place where all the drunk polish people went to after they got banned from SatGNU Jun 25 10:21:07 chances are we played together quite a few times, heh Jun 25 10:21:10 small world, small world Jun 25 10:21:16 More than likely. Jun 25 10:21:28 you might have even been using my builder binds! Jun 25 10:21:29 In fact certainly, I have seen your name. Jun 25 10:21:37 well, my nickname is 'old' Jun 25 10:21:39 Not likely broski. Jun 25 10:21:51 aw, you should have Jun 25 10:21:59 selecting buildables with mousewheel is good Jun 25 10:22:06 Lava_Croft: I had the MOST convuluted badass binds setups ever created in trem. Jun 25 10:22:26 most folks just copied my binds Jun 25 10:22:32 and edited those:) Jun 25 10:22:50 http://intothewild.tremulous.ro/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31&view=previous Jun 25 10:22:53 the whole thing with binds was a whoefully unbalancing affair anyway Jun 25 10:22:54 read this and weep. Jun 25 10:23:19 4.7 is good now :) Jun 25 10:23:34 vi_: http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=qlkuv5t30dbdiko0d8vejur9p2&topic=1038.0 Jun 25 10:23:37 :) Jun 25 10:23:51 I'll put up both 4.6 and 4.7 Jun 25 10:24:02 5 year older post than yours, heh Jun 25 10:24:29 zeq: call for topic? Jun 25 10:25:14 DocScrutinizer05: are you asking what I'm on about? Jun 25 10:25:20 zeq: or rather - call "OT"? Jun 25 10:25:20 Lava_Croft: Older, certainly. Insanely over comlicated, definatley not! Jun 25 10:25:38 well, they were complicated probably because you were new to quake configs Jun 25 10:25:43 zeq: no, I'm asking if you mind the OT convo Jun 25 10:25:49 my Quakeworld configs also were ridiculous Jun 25 10:26:00 Sorry guys, we awere just getting a collective nostalgia boner. Jun 25 10:26:07 oh, I'm happy to leave them to it Jun 25 10:26:11 no problem Jun 25 10:26:16 hey, i still play tremulous! but we shall stop now:) Jun 25 10:26:25 i was getting a somewhat questionable feeling about it anyway:) Jun 25 10:26:32 no, go ahead unless somebody calls "OT" Jun 25 10:26:36 it's better than the seemly never-ending saga about CA Jun 25 10:26:39 at least its no negative whining about whatever is happening on TMO Jun 25 10:26:42 yes, haha zeq Jun 25 10:27:08 i think OT should matter the moment someone has something OT to talk about Jun 25 10:27:21 so that actual OT talking does get littered with random stuff Jun 25 10:27:23 ~tmo is trolls, morons and oligarchs. Jun 25 10:27:24 cannot alter locked factoids, vi_ Jun 25 10:27:33 tmo is like any open source-ish community Jun 25 10:27:45 a lot of religious people with a lack of ability to see things from any other POV than their own Jun 25 10:27:49 Lava_Croft: But with more butt-hurt. Jun 25 10:28:10 people being people Jun 25 10:28:25 well, i think the negative shit on TMO is fairly minor Jun 25 10:29:24 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWsC9KE-PHY Jun 25 10:29:43 The Information Super Highway viewed from 1985 Jun 25 10:31:33 new toolchains are up: http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo/linaro-4.6-2012.06-fremantle-armv7a.tar.bz2 Jun 25 10:31:47 http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo/linaro-4.7-2012.06-fremantle-armv7a.tar.bz2 Jun 25 10:32:02 be warned, they're big Jun 25 10:32:52 not sure why they're as big as they are actually... ?? Jun 25 10:33:01 zeq: please add a line what's the supposed new properties and purpose of those toolchains Jun 25 10:34:11 DocScrutinizer05: principally, they contain lots of bugfixes. also they have working LTO,graphite,vectorization,improved thumb support Jun 25 10:34:16 there are like 270 users here wondering "should I download those instantly now?" Jun 25 10:34:23 LOL Jun 25 10:34:46 its newer so it must be better Jun 25 10:34:53 exactly Jun 25 10:35:00 it is better ;) Jun 25 10:35:07 HIGHER NUMBERS MEAN MORE BETTERER. Jun 25 10:35:12 exactly! Jun 25 10:35:13 yeah, but WHO will use them, for WHAT? Jun 25 10:35:23 for CSSU-T Jun 25 10:35:29 if nothing else Jun 25 10:35:55 the current CSSU-T toolchain was rather hacked together, no offense freemangordon Jun 25 10:35:56 for *building* CSSU-T Jun 25 10:36:48 can be used for non-thumb too obviously Jun 25 10:36:52 * DocScrutinizer05 hears 250 users switching chan Jun 25 10:37:11 ;-) Jun 25 10:37:22 they can be dropped straight into /scratchbox/compilers Jun 25 10:37:28 after unpacking Jun 25 10:37:39 ok, that's nice background info Jun 25 10:37:44 create a fresh target and away you go Jun 25 10:38:00 zeq: thanks Jun 25 10:38:20 just looking into why they're soooo big Jun 25 10:38:52 usually missing strip Jun 25 10:39:00 okay 26M of docs, doesn't help Jun 25 10:39:09 LOL Jun 25 10:39:34 haha Jun 25 10:40:14 so will cssu be faster with the new toolchain, or what? Jun 25 10:40:31 anything you build with the new toolchain *might* be faster :) Jun 25 10:40:50 a lot of things *probably* will be Jun 25 10:41:14 in a way that me as user notices some improvments? Jun 25 10:41:25 that depends Jun 25 10:42:00 there's also the issue that some software just won't build with the old compiler anymore Jun 25 10:42:04 4.2 is getting pretty old Jun 25 10:42:14 common sense in that discipline is "it needs a over-all speed improvement by factor 2 until user notices" Jun 25 10:42:32 that's not impossible Jun 25 10:43:20 I read that Android saw a I think it was a 40% improvement just switching to linaro Jun 25 10:43:26 unless you're talking about hard realtime like video playback, where 2% speed increase make the difference between nice video and dropped frames Jun 25 10:43:50 a valid usecase for overclocking Jun 25 10:44:01 actually mplayer would be a pretty nice test for it... vi_ ... Jun 25 10:44:33 DocScrutinizer05: better to have faster code than an overclock though, anyday :) Jun 25 10:44:43 anyday Jun 25 10:45:07 the only thing about mplayer is it tends to have the most critical parts in assembler anyway Jun 25 10:45:10 I'm the most notorious OC-hater all around Jun 25 10:45:37 No shit, I hate orange county as well. Jun 25 10:45:47 LOL Jun 25 10:46:46 a lot of the size is just due to the static binaries, no choice there though Jun 25 10:47:03 staically linked? Jun 25 10:47:17 I bet that explains a lot Jun 25 10:47:33 it's necessated by scratchbox Jun 25 10:47:45 maybe, dunno Jun 25 10:48:02 I tried with a dyn-linked toolchain first, didn't work Jun 25 10:48:09 :nod: Jun 25 10:48:19 plus it'd only work with my system probably, anyway Jun 25 10:48:24 I don't care too much about size of SB tools Jun 25 10:48:32 SB itself is like 5GB Jun 25 10:49:03 yeah Jun 25 10:49:12 I'll probably leave them as they are Jun 25 10:49:26 let users delete the docs if they need the space Jun 25 10:49:33 yep Jun 25 10:49:39 sane idea Jun 25 10:50:31 dear god, cc1plus is 72MB! Jun 25 10:50:48 :shrug: Jun 25 10:50:54 cc1 68M, lto1 66M Jun 25 10:51:10 look at libboost ;-P Jun 25 10:56:11 49160113 Apr 5 2008 /home/jr/halley/jr/Desktop/twinkle-1.2/src/gui/twinkle 3497348 30. Okt 2011 /usr/bin/twinkle Jun 25 10:56:41 and that's not even been static linking Jun 25 10:57:01 actually I forgot what caused this explosion Jun 25 10:58:22 quite impressive Jun 25 10:59:26 might just be debug symbols / stripping Jun 25 11:09:29 I'm writing a quick guide to setting it up on tmo Jun 25 11:10:21 What's going to happen about the EULA repos? Are we going to be able to make puplic mirrors, or what??? Jun 25 11:11:34 "Post rejected. As a new member, you are only allowed to post a minimum number of links in your post. Hit the back button on your web browser and edit your post. Thanks." Jun 25 11:11:37 LOL Jun 25 11:15:05 So, not having checked my webserver log, has anybody tried out the new toolchains? Jun 25 11:17:18 * zeq checks log Jun 25 11:18:02 Some of you have" :D If anybody needs help setting it up just ask. Jun 25 11:18:10 s/"/!/ Jun 25 11:18:11 zeq meant: Some of you have! :D If anybody needs help setting it up just ask. Jun 25 11:19:09 zeq: I do not know, however I will be hosting the global 1.3 firmware on my webserver indefinatley. Jun 25 11:19:32 not sure I'm comfortable with the new council Jun 25 11:19:46 recent behaviour makes it seem childish Jun 25 11:19:58 ooh Jun 25 11:20:45 DocScrutinizer05, read the quote, the reply is a given http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1226784&postcount=394 Jun 25 11:21:27 :nod: Jun 25 11:22:05 the term "childish2 is actually a euphemism Jun 25 11:22:23 not sure the community's still the same Jun 25 11:22:35 my thoughts Jun 25 11:22:48 MohammadAG: estel is visible only as such, powerhungry and childish Jun 25 11:23:43 MohammadAG: I already posted my only comment on very same thread Jun 25 11:23:49 nothing more to add Jun 25 11:24:00 DocScrutinizer05, I'm not sure where the thread is going too Jun 25 11:24:12 staight into doom Jun 25 11:24:19 the winners won't be changed, the council can't be changed, it's just taking tmo downhill Jun 25 11:24:31 chem|st: could you find a reason to close it? Jun 25 11:24:33 Not that I have a problem with SD69 Jun 25 11:25:13 Closing the thread can only be seen as an agressive act of censorship by the 'powers that be'. Jun 25 11:25:25 DocScrutinizer05: as my popcorn is gone... I might should find one yes Jun 25 11:25:34 vi_, mods aren't council, council can't control mods and vice versa Jun 25 11:25:53 and that's the way it should be Jun 25 11:26:02 for tmo, irc, whatnot Jun 25 11:26:29 would anyone that flame the thread care? Jun 25 11:26:34 @ MohammadAG Jun 25 11:26:39 esp since council isn't our emperor Jun 25 11:26:51 FIQ|n900, the thread raises valid points Jun 25 11:27:02 If you shut that thread, then you stoke the fire. Jun 25 11:27:02 there are no possible solutions Jun 25 11:27:11 don't close it abrubtly Jun 25 11:27:26 vi_: I leave that to tmo mods' discretion Jun 25 11:27:31 Abill will get excited again then BAM the whole thing blows up again. Jun 25 11:27:35 vi_: since I actually dunno Jun 25 11:27:47 abill_uk's just adding oil to the fire Jun 25 11:28:26 zeq: no offence taken, I am the first to admit it was hackish :) Jun 25 11:29:11 uh quims post made a good point to close the thread at this point Jun 25 11:29:50 It is merely my opinon and I trust the mods will do the right thing. However if you shut it, it can be seen as suffocating legitimate protest. If you post in it, it only stirs things up again. Jun 25 11:30:26 As far as I can tell you must simply let it burn out. Jun 25 11:30:37 vi_, already shut Jun 25 11:30:37 all legitimate protest seems to have been mentioned over and over again Jun 25 11:30:37 I agree with vi_, leave it die alone Jun 25 11:31:03 chem|st, I hope closing it that way won't backfire Jun 25 11:31:07 freemangordon, it won't die alone Jun 25 11:31:10 MohammadAG: what has happened with fixed CSSU-t? Jun 25 11:31:31 not until council is replaced or awwards are reconsidered Jun 25 11:31:31 leave that fcking thread Jun 25 11:32:44 MohammadAG: What I care of, is that right now we have a bunch of devices with oss-gnome-vfs thumb2-compiled, without kernel support for it, and you are discussing some bullshit thread. WTF? Jun 25 11:33:31 It's been some 2 weeks and nothing is happening. At least I am not aware of Jun 25 11:34:57 I don't give a shit about how much arie, itsnotabigcar etc are frustrated, when we have CSSU-t users with broken SW on their devices Jun 25 11:35:27 Why should you? Jun 25 11:35:30 MohammadAG: ^^^ Jun 25 11:35:43 chem|st: thanks a lot, pal! Jun 25 11:36:03 you saved my day (and maybe council) Jun 25 11:37:12 freemangordon, nokia shipped thumb binaries on the N900? Jun 25 11:37:13 freemangordon: Ill push a recompiled gnome-osso-vfs now Jun 25 11:37:26 Hurrian: No, latest cssu t did Jun 25 11:37:31 freemangordon: exactly! Jun 25 11:38:27 Hurrian: yes, Nokia pushed thumb2 binaries, so did MohammadAG Jun 25 11:38:38 yeah, freemangordon ++ Jun 25 11:38:57 facebook-upload-applet being one of them (pushed by Nokia) Jun 25 11:39:34 I guess this is a good reason to get the fixes into the kernel Jun 25 11:39:39 which in turn exploded into our face a lot? Jun 25 11:39:57 zeq: :nod: Jun 25 11:40:03 probably Nokia anticipated FMGs thumb-fix ;-P Jun 25 11:40:14 you can bet on that :P Jun 25 11:40:35 on fixed SR too, that is why the battery is only 1320 mAh Jun 25 11:40:56 zeq: nope, that's a reason to get fixed libs, without thumb Jun 25 11:41:27 DocScrutinizer05: I will be glad to hear about your plan to fix the libs that are in OVI store Jun 25 11:41:37 :-S Jun 25 11:41:42 touche Jun 25 11:42:44 have in mind thumb2 compiled one is not some 10k lib like the one I REd Jun 25 11:43:02 it is much bigger IIRC Jun 25 11:43:32 freemangordon, git down Jun 25 11:43:50 which would mean we are missing stuff in the REd one? Jun 25 11:44:03 MohammadAG: gitorious is up here, could be your network Jun 25 11:44:40 DocScrutinizer05:which means REd one is a piece of a puzzle, which consists of about 7-8 libs Jun 25 11:44:55 freemangordon, network's fine Jun 25 11:45:19 freemangordon, can you give me the ssh URL for osso-gnome-vfs2? Jun 25 11:45:21 aaah the RE is way bigger, sorry I got that wrong Jun 25 11:45:40 MohammadAG:just a second Jun 25 11:45:42 well, nevermind, will live in /opt happily forever Jun 25 11:46:01 nobody going to need that lib in early boot Jun 25 11:46:32 MohammadAG: git@gitorious.org:community-ssu/osso-gnome-vfs2.git Jun 25 11:46:58 MohammadAG: have in mind that you need to check EVERYTHING in the last update for being thumb-compiled Jun 25 11:47:19 also libxml2 dependencies in mp- are incorrect Jun 25 11:47:29 how come? Jun 25 11:47:31 how did thumb binaries get through? Jun 25 11:47:34 (libxm2?) Jun 25 11:47:44 zeq: a *very* good question Jun 25 11:47:45 zeq, apparently stock scratchbox builds thumb2 bins Jun 25 11:47:50 with no answer yet Jun 25 11:47:56 DocScrutinizer05: WTF early boot has to do with thumb2? Jun 25 11:48:10 which isn't causing any problems (yet) Jun 25 11:48:26 it has nothing to do with thumb, but with facebook-upload-lib Jun 25 11:48:35 so? Jun 25 11:48:40 yes, gcc-4.2 can do thumb Jun 25 11:48:51 it shouldn't be default though Jun 25 11:49:01 zeq, DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS has thumb Jun 25 11:49:06 zeq: but SB installer turns it on by default Jun 25 11:49:08 or whatever the env variable is Jun 25 11:49:33 by FREMANTLE_ARMEL.environment file Jun 25 11:49:54 it is much bigger IIRC well, nevermind, will live in /opt happily forever nobody going to need that lib in early boot Jun 25 11:50:15 so it odes Jun 25 11:50:21 s/odes/does/ Jun 25 11:50:23 zeq meant: so it does Jun 25 11:50:33 wtf? Jun 25 11:51:08 DocScrutinizer05: it lives in /opt even now, that does not change the fact it is loaded in memory when there is FB widget or photo uploader active Jun 25 11:51:22 sure Jun 25 11:51:25 thumb errata could hit in both arm/thumb code Jun 25 11:51:30 what's your point? Jun 25 11:51:46 what zeq said is the correct think to do Jun 25 11:51:55 I just said "don't worry about size of your RE'd FB-upload-lib" Jun 25 11:51:57 (i.e. fixed kernel) Jun 25 11:52:10 even if it's very slightly slower Jun 25 11:52:16 DocScrutinizer05: sorry misunderstan what you were saying Jun 25 11:52:18 seems you're in a mood to argue today Jun 25 11:52:40 The problem is not the size but complexity Jun 25 11:52:59 The one I REd is not thumb2 compiled one Jun 25 11:53:24 I got that much Jun 25 11:53:39 So I don't get your question then, sorry. Jun 25 11:53:59 I thought the original lib was way larger than your RE Jun 25 11:54:06 aaah, no :) Jun 25 11:54:18 then I learnt what you said, and said "don't worry" Jun 25 11:54:39 they are about the same size, some 8-9k Jun 25 11:55:26 nevermind then my comments Jun 25 11:55:36 yup :) Jun 25 11:56:13 anyway I'm afk now Jun 25 11:57:26 seems I have to ignore the ibuprofen not kicking in, and go to daywork anyway Jun 25 12:02:39 * DocScrutinizer05 sighs "if only council had claimed 5 devices for council tasks right away, instead of putting themselves on benchmark of a contest/award" Jun 25 12:04:28 silly Jun 25 12:09:50 DocScrutinizer05: ACK Jun 25 12:44:42 But now we will never get nitroid for the n950 :( Jun 25 12:52:49 time to see how much nicer daily life is using a n900 instead of a n9 Jun 25 12:52:59 (not that i ever forgot) Jun 25 13:19:43 MohammadAG, there is a small problem with omp since the "resume on headphone connect" feature. Jun 25 13:22:17 there is a problem with the gpodder interaction, which worked fine before. if i want to play an audio podcast, omp often opens in videomode. if i repeat this, omp opens correct in audiomode, but the podcast starts from beginning then. Jun 25 14:06:59 looks like qt is a pretty good test-case for g++ compilers! Both the 4.6 and 4.7 linaro compilers hit known (but different) ICEs, both targeted to be fixed for the next Linaro release (2012.07) Jun 25 14:28:19 ~ice Jun 25 14:28:19 ice is probably Intrusion Countermeasures Electronics. In Circut Emulator. Internal Compiler Error Jun 25 14:28:27 hah Jun 25 14:30:10 mase76: you'll probably have to linger on here for a while, until MohammadAG will respond Jun 25 14:30:24 i will Jun 25 14:34:33 zeq: which qt are you trying to build? as the one in the thumb repo should have everything ready for gcc 4.4+ compiler Jun 25 14:34:48 thesource I mean Jun 25 14:37:04 mase76: I think OMP development/maintainership was transferred to gidzzz@TMO, you'd better throw a post in OMP thread on TMO Jun 25 14:37:48 MohammadAG no longer develops it? Jun 25 14:38:29 AFAIK Jun 25 14:38:44 its been like that for some time Jun 25 14:39:45 freemangordon: qt4-x11-4.7.4~git20110505+cssu6 Jun 25 14:40:16 duh Jun 25 14:40:40 zeq: where did you get that from? thumb-tesing branch in CSSU? Jun 25 14:41:25 zeq: did you do git checkout thumb-testing? Jun 25 14:41:54 freemangordon: I did add a patch for gcc-4.7 from debian, but the actual bugs I'm hitting are from fixes for other bugs upstream. The gcc-4.7 bug is actually a gcc mainline bug, while the 4.6 bug is Linaro specific. Jun 25 14:42:10 Let me check apt-cache policy Jun 25 14:42:42 zeq: where did you get Qt sources? Jun 25 14:42:58 http://maemo.merlin1991.at fremantle/free Packages Jun 25 14:43:12 thumb repo? Jun 25 14:43:19 yup Jun 25 14:43:39 aah,ok. so, none of your toolchains builds Qt? damn Jun 25 14:43:47 bummer Jun 25 14:44:05 That's not entirely true, I could probably turn off neon Jun 25 14:44:16 I was trying with neon enabled Jun 25 14:44:28 ok Jun 25 14:44:28 qt does have explict neon support Jun 25 14:44:32 makes sense Jun 25 14:44:43 does it? Jun 25 14:44:47 Just unlucky with the bugs Jun 25 14:44:55 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if he recalls something about "neon doesn't work on N900 maemo" Jun 25 14:44:58 yeah, it uses neon intrinsics Jun 25 14:45:09 DocScrutinizer05: LOL Jun 25 14:45:15 neon works fine Jun 25 14:45:20 so next 4.7 should be OK with neon and Qt? Jun 25 14:45:47 freemangordon: well, who knows. Fix one thing here, and it breaks another thing somewhere else... Jun 25 14:45:56 DocScrutinizer05: never ever trust anything on "not working on n900" if the source is not /me :P Jun 25 14:45:58 It *should* Jun 25 14:46:05 The OE folks are onto it Jun 25 14:46:14 ok Jun 25 14:46:26 zeq: I'm absolutely unsure if I ever heard such rant, but maybe there's a reason they didn't use it? might be compiler based reason though Jun 25 14:46:48 so, lets stick with my toolchain until the bug is fixed, ok? Jun 25 14:46:49 gcc-4.2 based reason probably Jun 25 14:47:15 even if it is hackish :) Jun 25 14:47:17 yup Jun 25 14:47:22 I could knock together a new toolchain based on the same upstream source as you Jun 25 14:47:30 shall I? Jun 25 14:47:39 zeq: what is the rationale? Jun 25 14:47:43 I've got the hang of it now :) Jun 25 14:47:53 it installs more cleanly Jun 25 14:47:59 :) Jun 25 14:48:37 but if you are going to make a new build in a week or two, that will be a time that will be lost Jun 25 14:49:06 I've built a toolchain base without gcc, which I compile gcc against, then use sb-toolchain-extras to sandboxize it. Jun 25 14:49:24 I mean it does not make sense to use it for a week and to throw it in favor of gcc 4.7 Jun 25 14:49:37 but it is up to you :) Jun 25 14:50:00 what was it vanilla 4.6.2? Jun 25 14:50:04 yep Jun 25 14:50:16 from gcc mirror Jun 25 14:50:41 * freemangordon is heading on his way home, bbl Jun 25 14:50:50 * DocScrutinizer05 waves Jun 25 14:51:19 freemangordon: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gcc-linaro/+bug/1013209 Jun 25 14:52:25 I've lost the other one Jun 25 14:56:10 found it: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=53135 Jun 25 14:56:12 04Bug 53135: was not found. Jun 25 15:03:52 ~pet povbot_ Jun 25 15:03:54 * infobot reaches over and pets povbot_ on the head, saying "There, there! It'll all be ok!" Jun 25 15:06:47 poor povbot :( Jun 25 15:17:13 Woody14619: post is in apps.formeego.org thread on TMO Jun 25 15:35:42 zeq: I am on my way to register on github, will ping you whne ready Jun 25 15:39:41 zeq: freemangordon@github :) Jun 25 15:44:30 Estel_: since your PM promised you'll stop insulting me (and I gather, also stop insulting generally the chanops in here), I'll like to promise I'll also try to not use harsh words and I deleted you from my ignore list. Peace! :-) Jun 25 15:45:13 freemangordon: you should now have commit access. Jun 25 15:46:02 I've just committed my changes to master, if you want to create a branch, do so. Jun 25 15:46:15 zeq: thanks. where the repo is? Jun 25 15:46:34 https://github.com/sjnewbury/fennec-qt-maemo5 Jun 25 15:46:38 nah, I would prefer not to branch Jun 25 15:46:53 I will commit only working code Jun 25 15:46:59 ok Jun 25 15:47:26 I've gotta go for a bit, I'll be back later if the gf doesn't ban me from my laptop ;) Jun 25 15:47:36 :D Jun 25 15:47:41 ok, bb Jun 25 15:49:55 keep the negative energy out of the channel. Let it flow to where it belongs Jun 25 15:50:06 I didn't write that Jun 25 15:50:52 there's no such thing like negative energy ;-) Jun 25 15:51:23 "dark" fits better Jun 25 15:52:08 DocScrutinizer05: Not even from a 7905??? Jun 25 15:52:24 :D Jun 25 15:52:36 nah, that's negative voltage Jun 25 15:52:42 energy is a scalar Jun 25 15:52:44 yepm you beat me to it Jun 25 15:53:01 P*t Jun 25 15:53:27 Damn, your good. Jun 25 15:53:34 * GeneralAntilles hands DocScrutinizer05 and freemangordon some metaphysics. Jun 25 15:53:46 ... How many volts are required to drive an LED? Jun 25 15:53:57 depends on the technology Jun 25 15:54:19 HAH! Trollmode unlocked. It is a current device. Jun 25 15:54:35 usually in the range 1.8-4 (iirc) Jun 25 15:54:52 correct Jun 25 15:55:18 some might go up to 6 Jun 25 15:55:28 vi_: bullshit, it is PN, don't tlee me diode is a current device Jun 25 15:56:24 you need a certain voltage to start current flowing thru it Jun 25 15:56:27 the current (and luminocity) depends on the voltage, though not linearly Jun 25 15:56:34 :nod: Jun 25 15:57:06 (it ws some quantum barrier, but for the gods sake i can't remember its name) Jun 25 15:57:06 usually called Vfwd Jun 25 15:57:49 or U(fwd) Jun 25 15:57:55 vi_: any other questions :P Jun 25 15:59:40 ...an LED is a current device. Jun 25 16:00:27 WTF is a "current device"? Jun 25 16:00:29 freemangordon: Yes, 1. Jun 25 16:00:35 yeah, define it Jun 25 16:00:38 freemangordon: Why does it hurt when I pee? Jun 25 16:01:05 I'd like to quote good ole FZ Jun 25 16:01:27 you got it from the toilet seat Jun 25 16:01:34 vi_: you have stones in your (place the english word here, ass?) Jun 25 16:01:56 it jumped right up and grabbed your meat Jun 25 16:02:30 mmm. My balls do feel like a pair of maraccas. Jun 25 16:02:34 you got the gono kakakakus Jun 25 16:03:10 you sure there is no some monster living in your toilet smashing your balls? Jun 25 16:03:35 you're sure that's still on topic in any way? Jun 25 16:03:43 ;-P Jun 25 16:04:01 * freemangordon is afk going to chase fennec's rotation Jun 25 16:04:14 * freemangordon turns trollmode off Jun 25 16:04:36 * DocScrutinizer05 is off taking a warm bath to stop that damn shaking Jun 25 16:04:52 I just read the thread about fennec rotation, maybe it just needs to be blacklisted? Jun 25 16:05:25 I guess he rather wanna make it work, than block rotation Jun 25 16:05:45 Qml apps handle their own rotation (and AFAIK fennec does that too) and CSSU rotates it again thus the 90° problem Jun 25 16:06:17 qwazix: you should see it on harm Jun 25 16:06:22 qwazix: it is a bit more complicated, Nokia (in their ethernal wisdom) made fennec listen to orientation sensor Jun 25 16:06:22 there it's also quite funky Jun 25 16:06:26 well, that's the root cause then. Fennecd not supposed to do anything "on its own" Jun 25 16:06:34 :nod: Jun 25 16:06:42 but on harmattan it does rotate 4 ways Jun 25 16:06:57 so definitely does something by itself Jun 25 16:07:04 and it uses pixmap rotation for that Jun 25 16:07:19 GL pixmap rotation, which is sloooow Jun 25 16:07:58 I'm not sure what that is but if it's what I think (rotating pixel by pixel) no wonder it's slow Jun 25 16:08:00 and NO software should decide on its own when to rotate. And no other software rotates 4 ways Jun 25 16:08:07 at very least it MUST NOT use accelerometer raw data to do whateveer it does Jun 25 16:08:12 yep Jun 25 16:08:17 ~2119 Jun 25 16:08:19 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Jun 25 16:08:44 qwazix: dunno the build I have on my n9 rotates 4 ways Jun 25 16:08:51 BUT jumps back a split second later Jun 25 16:09:56 merlin1991: indeed. Must be 13 because i haven't noticed that earlier. Jun 25 16:10:14 s/haven't/hadn't/ Jun 25 16:10:15 qwazix meant: merlin1991: indeed. Must be 13 because i hadn't noticed that earlier. Jun 25 16:11:15 Now i'm upside down for at least 20 seconds so it's not consistent Jun 25 16:13:46 qwazix: for me it works approximately 1 time out of 10 Jun 25 16:16:46 I'm not sure who does rotation on N900(-CSSU), but I'm absolutely sure it needs to listen to display aspect ratio, and we want to control that in a central location, to have a hook where orientation lock (switch) could attach Jun 25 16:18:26 apps listening to raw accelerometer data have no waay to learn about system global orientation lock, since there's no such thing defined in stock maemo Jun 25 16:20:51 Most probably that is what qt-components apps do, but I suppose we could change that in qt? Jun 25 16:21:14 we should, if needed Jun 25 16:23:33 btw apps constanly listening to accelerometer data as well introduce problems regarding CPU usage, power consumption and a couble of other domains. since that's not a recommended way to deal with accelerometer at all Jun 25 16:24:19 lis302 got an IRQ line and internal thresholds for a reason Jun 25 16:24:27 And of course they can't do stuff like setting thresholds. Jun 25 16:24:35 indeed Jun 25 16:25:17 that's why they need to read data constantly, several times per second Jun 25 16:25:32 and do sw based thresholds Jun 25 16:25:48 a huuuge cpu and energy hog Jun 25 16:26:23 and common practice in Qt afaik Jun 25 16:28:20 sorry, can't type anymore... afk Jun 25 16:33:21 right way: lis302 accelerometer chip senses rotation -> engages IRQ -> mce detects IRQ, reads current orientation -> signal to dbus about orientation chage -> 57 apps wake up, receive dbus signal, act accordingly, go to sleep again Jun 25 16:34:24 wrong way: 57 apps poll lis302 10 times a seond, compare (in CPU) to their local thresholds, act accordingly, go to sleep for 01s second Jun 25 16:35:10 DocScrutinizer05: is the IRQ way implemented? Jun 25 16:35:20 yes, basically Jun 25 16:35:24 ok Jun 25 16:35:46 dunno about mce though Jun 25 16:36:26 should be, otherwise we would've seen it in powertop Jun 25 16:36:38 in lis302.ko it's semi-implemented Jun 25 16:36:51 ? Jun 25 16:37:26 only detects upright and flat iirc Jun 25 16:37:37 not using highpass filter as it should Jun 25 16:37:44 and polls for the others? Jun 25 16:38:03 nah, odds are some orientation chages pass unnoticed Jun 25 16:38:21 ok Jun 25 16:38:36 since lis302 won't trigger on them Jun 25 16:39:03 yeah, got it Jun 25 16:39:15 shuldn't be a big problem though Jun 25 16:39:19 e.g flat->portait iirc won't trigger IRQ Jun 25 16:39:50 it triggers Jun 25 16:39:58 ok, at leas h-d rotates Jun 25 16:40:02 *least Jun 25 16:40:25 look into lis302.ko src, you'll spot what I mean Jun 25 16:40:40 ok, will do it some day Jun 25 16:41:22 it *should* use highpass and set threshold rather low, and do this on 2 instead of just one axis Jun 25 16:42:02 this way *any* orientation chanke aka move would cause IRQ to fire Jun 25 16:42:12 change* Jun 25 16:42:15 you mean a filter per axis? Jun 25 16:42:17 damn Jun 25 16:42:31 yep Jun 25 16:43:26 x(t)=x(t-1)+a*dx/dt+b? Jun 25 16:43:48 would that do the job? Jun 25 16:44:02 or we would need a higher order? Jun 25 16:44:21 iirc you got 2 comparators and 2 filters, and a summarizer. you set filters to 3 axis, add the results, and set one comparator so it fires when output is greater than x, which means any of the axis values changed more than y per timeframe Jun 25 16:45:38 aah, the chip has those filters build in? coll, then i will deffinitely take a look at it some day. Though I am afraid mce is closed source and noone knows how will it act when thinks work in a way they have to Jun 25 16:45:43 yep Jun 25 16:46:09 *things Jun 25 16:46:11 :) Jun 25 16:47:26 lis302.ko disables the filters, and no way to set them Jun 25 16:47:46 Nokia thought it's not needed, so driver doesn't support it Jun 25 16:48:25 there's even a comment in it on words to the effect Jun 25 16:52:11 http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/drivers/hwmon/lis3lv02d.c?v=2.6.32#L45 outright "I didn't get it, so we don't use it" Jun 25 16:52:41 that's *not* mameo implementation though Jun 25 16:52:50 that's the BS meego etc are using Jun 25 16:53:00 aka "upstream" Jun 25 16:54:36 "we poll the sensor only at 20Hz..." Jun 25 16:54:40 WTF? Jun 25 16:57:25 * RST38h moos Jun 25 16:57:41 Doc <-- segregates by OS version =) Jun 25 16:59:09 libqtm provides an orientation API, that's what fennec is using to determine when to rotate. No reason it should be of course, I'm pretty sure the API was provided for apps with a specific need to know which way is up, for things other than UI rotation. Jun 25 16:59:28 :nod: Jun 25 16:59:37 oops, that was me ;) Jun 25 16:59:50 you still have a GF? Jun 25 16:59:55 :P Jun 25 17:00:04 at the moment :) Jun 25 17:00:14 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c#165 here you are Jun 25 17:01:37 DocScrutinizer05: will look at it some day, now i am clonning fennec and will play a little bit with it Jun 25 17:01:53 WOW 730 MB Jun 25 17:02:08 (fennec sources + git info) Jun 25 17:02:16 mozilla has a long history Jun 25 17:02:17 187 /* Enable interrupt wakeup on x and y axis */ Jun 25 17:02:53 Z axis not monitored (can't be done as we have only 2 comparators aiui) Jun 25 17:07:06 freemangordon: for a proper accelerometer API we'd need to define a whole new concept. One based on app requesting for a certain "resolution" and a central entity unifying all the requests - much like in liblocation Jun 25 17:08:14 Hmm, is it normal that X consumes most of CPU time? Jun 25 17:08:21 yes Jun 25 17:08:24 usually Jun 25 17:09:27 unless screen locked, when it probably shouldn't consume all that much Jun 25 17:09:34 Then it's me Jun 25 17:10:55 877 716 root S < 15540 6.3 2.5 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.log -logverbose 1 -nolisten tcp -noreset -s 0 -core Jun 25 17:10:56 1578 1177 user S 8296 3.3 1.3 /usr/bin/hildon-status-menu Jun 25 17:10:58 14328 14173 root R 732 0.3 0.7 top Jun 25 17:10:59 2226 2224 root S 572 0.2 0.7 /bin/sh /root/bin/bq27200.sh 60 Jun 25 17:11:22 top 4 top Jun 25 17:11:56 and no, this shell displayed on my laptop, not on device screen/X Jun 25 17:12:39 nevertheless screen not locked Jun 25 17:14:53 ah I see :) I checked conky and it showed xorg as most CPU time consuming process Jun 25 17:15:10 same top 4 with screen locked: Jun 25 17:15:14 14415 14173 root R 736 0.3 0.5 top Jun 25 17:15:16 10 2 root SW 0 0.0 0.5 [omap2_mcspi] Jun 25 17:15:17 550 2 root SW 0 0.0 0.3 [wl12xx] Jun 25 17:15:19 2248 1177 user S 5172 2.1 0.2 /usr/bin/image-viewer Jun 25 17:16:42 I couldn't remember I had seen xorg that high in that list before :P Jun 25 17:16:47 wtf image-viewer?? Jun 25 17:17:47 869 712 root S < 38736 16.4 14.6 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.log -logverbose 1 -nol Jun 25 17:17:48 ystem --nofork Jun 25 17:18:12 conky isn't exactly a low overhead monitor Jun 25 17:18:45 conky does a friggin lot of gfx iirc, ... on and via X Jun 25 17:19:25 actually X is working harder for the gfx than the monitor Jun 25 17:20:02 jus accounting doc Jun 25 17:20:12 s/jus/just/ Jun 25 17:20:13 zeq1 meant: just accounting doc Jun 25 17:20:25 zeq1: no debian/ and no mozconfig? Jun 25 17:22:31 freemangordon: it's a fork of mozilla-central. It's the recommended tree for working against. We need to decide whether to include debian/ in the repo or .gitignore it. Jun 25 17:23:17 I thought we could decide that once you got your account. Jun 25 17:23:59 zeq1: if it is called maemo5... then we either do maemo5 branch and put those there or put them in master Jun 25 17:24:10 hmm, branch maemo5 should be ok Jun 25 17:24:15 I don't have a problem having it in the repo, it just makes it slightly more work if we push it upstream. Jun 25 17:24:30 we don;t need it upstream Jun 25 17:24:31 true enough Jun 25 17:24:58 I just wanted to keep our options open :) Jun 25 17:25:12 Yeah, it seems conky pushes X to about 15 percent Jun 25 17:25:27 at least it's easy to keep it up to date Jun 25 17:25:42 since it's tracking upstream Jun 25 17:25:49 zeq1: ok, I will branch and put maemo5 stuff there, pull it afterwards and compare it with yours (debian and mozconfig) Jun 25 17:26:03 okay Jun 25 17:26:05 zeq1: (options) +1 Jun 25 17:26:42 zeq1: but other changes will go to master Jun 25 17:27:08 if only nokia had upstreamed lis302.ko Jun 25 17:27:16 so anything packaging specific in a branch, fixes in master Jun 25 17:27:24 yep Jun 25 17:27:39 you already put some in master Jun 25 17:27:47 i will do the same Jun 25 17:27:47 just build fixes Jun 25 17:28:09 I know, but still Jun 25 17:28:35 I'm happy with the plan :) Jun 25 17:29:39 should HARM be using the same rotation framework? Jun 25 17:30:12 does it have qtmaemo? Jun 25 17:30:14 it is some meegotouch stuff ther AFAIK. But I am not much into harm Jun 25 17:30:50 so the manual rotate stuff is some weird fallback? Jun 25 17:31:05 or ugly hack/workaround, yes Jun 25 17:31:53 are both the ugly hack and meegotouch getting enabled on harm, hence the weird behavour mentioned Jun 25 17:31:54 ? Jun 25 17:32:30 NFC Jun 25 17:32:32 could be Jun 25 17:33:37 can't easily look at the code atm, making dinner Jun 25 17:35:01 zeq1: (re orientation) yes, and qt in turn is using this polling joystickj upstream driver, last I asked Jun 25 17:35:33 since that's the "generic2 one they found upstream Jun 25 17:35:51 weird Jun 25 17:36:29 lis3lv02d.ko is polling the chip, sensorfw is polling /dev/accel, and qt is polling sensorfw Jun 25 17:37:00 that's raouhgly their system architecture Jun 25 17:37:03 probably because apps are registered with libqtm orientaion api Jun 25 17:37:23 it's the wrong layer though Jun 25 17:38:06 it's the wrong concept Jun 25 17:38:07 zeq1: the first i did is to remove qtorientationsensor :) Jun 25 17:38:15 haven't they heard of layering violation? Jun 25 17:38:53 zeq1: will see in the commits in a couple of minutes Jun 25 17:38:59 ok Jun 25 17:40:01 iirc qtorientationsensor has a pollingrate parameter Jun 25 17:40:07 I'm sure there are valid use-cases for the API, can't think of one though Jun 25 17:40:19 spirit level Jun 25 17:40:31 is a valiud usecase for polling Jun 25 17:40:50 nope, the api reports top-up, top-down,... etc Jun 25 17:40:54 pissibly at VSYNC framerate Jun 25 17:40:58 not raw readings Jun 25 17:41:16 the typos become hillarious Jun 25 17:41:27 LOL Jun 25 17:42:19 my N900 is so nice with this hildon-desktop build :D Jun 25 17:42:22 zeq1: (API) right, there are two Jun 25 17:42:25 smooth Jun 25 17:42:29 yup Jun 25 17:42:39 orientation and real degrees or g Jun 25 17:42:57 totally separate APIs Jun 25 17:43:01 both working rather same way though Jun 25 17:43:17 I guess Jun 25 17:43:18 zeq1: do wer really need +ac_add_options --enable-tests Jun 25 17:43:25 neither should be used for rotation Jun 25 17:43:37 :nod: Jun 25 17:43:43 freemangordon: no not really Jun 25 17:43:47 ok Jun 25 17:44:04 since rotation is a virtual thing loosely related to orientation only Jun 25 17:44:11 DocScrutinizer: at least not by apps Jun 25 17:44:21 :nod: Jun 25 17:44:33 WM could reasonably use it Jun 25 17:44:51 I guess Jun 25 17:45:23 zeq1: I always come with my usecase "orientation by detection of user eye horiuzon, via front cam" Jun 25 17:45:43 nice, not low power though Jun 25 17:46:14 indeed, but a killer for orientation based rotation, and too tight coupling to accel Jun 25 17:46:15 it's always bugged me, rotation when lying on my side :) Jun 25 17:46:45 clearly shows the concept is flawed Jun 25 17:46:56 yup Jun 25 17:49:16 and polling parameter in Qt* widgets shows their sensor concept is flawed, usually Jun 25 17:49:57 since sensors need to _create_ events, not react on them Jun 25 17:50:24 that's IRQ driven hw/sw design. Only valid approach for embedded Jun 25 17:51:06 a device that doesn't do anything, has to do exactly that: NOTHING Jun 25 17:51:17 NOT poll sensors Jun 25 17:51:27 agreed Jun 25 17:51:52 you should have to register a notifier Jun 25 17:52:18 meego folks always uttered "we'll deal with those minor details later - first we need to make it work at all" Jun 25 17:52:56 to be fair, they wanted to get a device out for a deadline Jun 25 17:53:20 then they were shocked by their idle power consumption and abyssmal standby time Jun 25 17:53:34 only to be expected Jun 25 17:54:05 libqtm is still in development at least Jun 25 17:54:06 once you implemented qt and sensorfw on a fundamentally wrong architecture, you never will "fix it later" Jun 25 17:54:15 there is a chance it will be fixed Jun 25 17:54:55 I don't know, as long as you depreciate the broken way with nice noisy warnings Jun 25 17:55:05 until I start to see that chance, I stick to my staement that meego never will get decent standby time Jun 25 17:55:46 well, meego is dead, so who cares Jun 25 17:56:05 mer is going pretty strong though Jun 25 17:56:17 I just don't like to see qt spoiling maemo standby time Jun 25 17:56:23 I don't now how much they've stuck to the broken bits Jun 25 17:57:19 if stskeeps is no squarehead, he had a close look into at least this very topic, as I explained to him several times Jun 25 17:57:26 in epic length Jun 25 17:57:56 so if they kept this arch for mer, I dunno Jun 25 17:57:57 I'm going to ask, Imm on #mer anyway... Jun 25 17:59:00 maybe better not to mention my name ;-D Jun 25 17:59:06 LOL Jun 25 17:59:47 Hopefully I didn't come across too offensive Jun 25 18:01:28 maybe they're all at the pub? :P Jun 25 18:03:29 they don't respond well on too unspecific rant like yours, I guess Jun 25 18:04:15 to answer your question if they are still using the broken poll-based approach, they first had to be aware what that actually means Jun 25 18:07:10 while the problem is they aren't even aware of the concept of IRQ/event-driven architecture - at least that's what it seems to me sometimes Jun 25 18:08:43 and hell, on several desktop platforms, you don't have any IRQ for that, so you _need_ to use polling, and usually on those platforms you just don't care Jun 25 18:09:47 and that's probably also why Qt is using this approach - it works on most platforms, while IRQ driven is rather hw specific Jun 25 18:11:50 (you could argue that, if your hardware doesn't provide proper IRQ triggered on events, then at least you implement the polling timers directly into the kernel device driver, so the kernel device API and concept could stay unchanged) Jun 25 18:14:20 but when you completely neglect thinking about hw IRQ driven architecture, then of course you implement the timers as close to app as possible, as the app (seems) knows best how often it needs to poll that sensor Jun 25 18:15:38 a proper arch would define a way for apps to register to events, and define the "timer" aka resolution/frequency/sensitivity/accuracy in that registering Jun 25 18:17:44 all layers beneath would hand thru the details to lower layers, or handle parts of htese parameters themselves to consolidate multiple requests, in a way when one app requests on datapoint per second, and the other requests 20, the layer below will get asked to provide 20 Jun 25 18:18:05 look liblocation, where this got implemented in a decent way Jun 25 18:20:12 one app wants accuracy based on GSM cells, other wants accuracy based on gps, third wants a-gps. The middleware (here lib) aggregates and consolidates that to meet all requirements Jun 25 18:21:18 exactly what we'd need for accel/orientation/rotation too Jun 25 18:23:04 a nd the nice thing: this arch should work on any platform, just the return codes and resulting resource allocations are different for platforms with different capabilities Jun 25 18:23:30 sorry about disappearing gf needing attention ;) Jun 25 18:23:46 np, now I'm disappearing Jun 25 18:24:07 myself needs attention ;-) Jun 25 18:24:12 an engineers monologue ;) Jun 25 18:30:31 zeq1: any idea how to test all that gcc thumb/neon efficiency? Jun 25 18:31:08 esp. neon, for thumb the benefit is clear Jun 25 18:31:23 Povray? Jun 25 18:31:31 ? Jun 25 18:31:39 whatever it is :) Jun 25 18:31:45 It's the stereotypical heavy FP app Jun 25 18:31:48 raytracer Jun 25 18:32:33 SpeedEvil: My idea was how to compare Qt with/out neon Jun 25 18:32:38 ah Jun 25 18:33:26 maybe scrolling speed in a long list ? Jun 25 18:33:45 or some insane qt graphics view demo ? Jun 25 18:33:48 No clue as to what 'normal' stuff uses FP Jun 25 18:33:54 and taking a video with a camera? :) Jun 25 18:34:16 It would be interesting to have a 'fpumeter' Jun 25 18:34:19 SpeedEvil: yeah, first is to see when those optimizations kick in Jun 25 18:34:25 like the cpu applet Jun 25 18:34:31 s/when/where/ Jun 25 18:34:32 freemangordon meant: SpeedEvil: yeah, first is to see where those optimizations kick in Jun 25 18:34:35 but to break out the opcodes Jun 25 18:38:39 freemangordon: puzzlemaster! Jun 25 18:39:29 iirc it became slow beyond any usability when it used qt for the tile moving Jun 25 18:39:44 but does it use FP? Jun 25 18:40:05 well, iirc we comcluded that FP in Qt was the culprit Jun 25 18:40:13 ok Jun 25 18:40:40 don't forget it's not just about FP Jun 25 18:40:48 it's also about SIMD Jun 25 18:40:58 the nice part: you can scale it easily, simply by number of tiles moving around Jun 25 18:40:59 where the optimisations are? Jun 25 18:41:33 you have to ask original author about details Jun 25 18:42:40 could have a look in the qt code, grep for neon to see what get accelerated Jun 25 18:42:53 ok Jun 25 18:43:04 at least that way we'd know what to test Jun 25 18:43:26 zeq1: btw did Qt compile with neon and "my" toolchain? Jun 25 18:43:31 * DocScrutinizer05 curses his memory, as can't recall irc nick of puzzlemaster author Jun 25 18:43:51 freemangordon: haven't tried it Jun 25 18:44:24 ok, i will do that, once STUPID FENNEC ROTATES AS IT SHOULD Jun 25 18:45:01 DocScrutinizer: Stskeeps has replied :) Jun 25 18:45:38 well, that's an answer as well Jun 25 18:47:03 zeq1: on #mer? Jun 25 18:47:16 :nod: Jun 25 18:48:45 the usual answer, "send a patch!" Jun 25 18:49:03 yeah, :( Jun 25 18:49:04 ignoring that architecture can't get patched that easily Jun 25 18:49:42 yeah Jun 25 18:50:14 see what I meant? Jun 25 18:50:53 all the same I already seen in #meego Jun 25 18:51:28 "send a patch", "we'll deal with that later, for now it just needs to work" Jun 25 18:52:18 and finally "that's the only lis302 driver upstreaqm, if you got a better one, send it upstream and we'll happily use it" Jun 25 19:03:10 i got a random reboot, and here's my syslog around the time. http://paste.debian.net/176291/ Jun 25 19:04:03 it's not too much of a problem, but maybe someone can shed some light Jun 25 19:04:16 Sicelo: /dev/mtd2? Jun 25 19:04:42 hmm, what about it? Jun 25 19:05:10 :) there are the oopses Jun 25 19:05:26 i.e. kernel backtrace Jun 25 19:05:37 in short, HW fail? Jun 25 19:06:16 in short, there is a kernel crash log in /dev/mtd2, pastebinit Jun 25 19:06:52 ah.. let me see Jun 25 19:10:09 hmm, i wonder if this will help :\ Jun 25 19:10:39 that happened about 10 hours ago (i was at work, so didn't have the time to look into it) Jun 25 19:10:54 Sicelo: kernel crash backtrace is the only think that can help in case of a kernel oops Jun 25 19:11:10 i'll paste Jun 25 19:11:15 that does not matter, it is a dedicated part of NAND Jun 25 19:11:40 so it persists through rebbots and time Jun 25 19:11:47 *reboots Jun 25 19:19:14 meh, pastebinit fails on my pc, wtf. did paste.debian.net also change api Jun 25 19:20:01 freemangordon: http://members.bombshellz.net/~sicelo/mtd2 Jun 25 19:24:42 Sicelo: pastebinit on n900 is depreciated. Jun 25 19:24:49 N900 version is 1.1 Jun 25 19:24:53 current is 1.3 Jun 25 19:25:06 fortunatley is is just a glorified script. Jun 25 19:25:51 actually it's my debian pc that didn't work Jun 25 19:25:55 you can wget debian testing version Jun 25 19:26:08 deb file and dpkg -i it strait up. Jun 25 19:26:14 kewl. thanks Jun 25 19:26:31 Also pastebin.com has changed their API. They are made of fail and should now be avoided. Jun 25 19:26:42 :P Jun 25 19:26:59 that's why i was surprised paste.debian.net didn't seem to work too Jun 25 19:27:16 Sicelo: no kernel oops, check if your battery is not loose Jun 25 19:27:43 eew. i know this battery has been loose for a while Jun 25 19:27:45 :/ Jun 25 19:27:58 you can specify alternative pastebin with pastebin -b "http://www.. Jun 25 19:28:03 you can specify alternative pastebin with pastebin -b "http://www.." Jun 25 19:28:15 You can list available pastbins with -h Jun 25 19:28:23 Sicelo: that is not a major issue, just poll the contacts (on n900) a bit Jun 25 19:28:24 ah, vi__ my mistake was forgetting the quotes then :/ Jun 25 19:28:26 you can set the default in .pastebinit. Jun 25 19:28:34 Sicelo: yes, it took me while too! Jun 25 19:29:06 vi__: my English is not good enough, please explain to Sicelo what to do in case of a loose battery Jun 25 19:29:07 i've done it successfully before. slipped my mind Jun 25 19:29:22 * vi__ reads scrollback Jun 25 19:29:44 :P Jun 25 19:29:53 Sicelo: depending on how your battery is loose. Jun 25 19:29:59 Sicelo: n900 right? Jun 25 19:30:03 well, if it's battery, i'm kinda relieved. i know it is loose :\ Jun 25 19:30:07 yes, N900 Jun 25 19:30:23 he has restarts out of the blue, and ther is no kernel oops Jun 25 19:30:59 freemangordon: I don't know, that would be getting dangerously close to 'contributing to community' and we know I am nothing but troll. Jun 25 19:30:59 Sicelo: actually your n900 is damn stable, the last kernel crash is with KP47 Jun 25 19:31:07 Sicelo: put battery in ur ass. Jun 25 19:31:13 Sicelo: or not. Jun 25 19:31:19 hmm, yes, you are right. Jun 25 19:31:29 you're a troll Jun 25 19:31:33 Sicelo: if it is a loose battery it is generally the connections. Jun 25 19:31:34 :( Jun 25 19:31:37 i've taken rather good care of this piece of electronics, lol. Jun 25 19:31:49 The connections on the bl-5j battery. Jun 25 19:31:50 * Sicelo loves this N900. if only.. Jun 25 19:32:14 If you look at the terminals on the bl-5j you will see that they are made of 2 small spring clips. Jun 25 19:32:24 yeah vi__ .. i've tried to bend/unbend the springs .. still seems like i'm not successful Jun 25 19:32:50 You see the springs have like a small half sphere on them. Jun 25 19:33:05 I think there is a spring on the opposite side, butting the battery against the contacts, not sure though, lemme check Jun 25 19:33:14 The small half speres should be more or less touching. Jun 25 19:33:21 ^spheres. Jun 25 19:33:32 i was saying here on friday (iinm) that this battery+contacts design sucks. what was wrong with BL-5C type of contacts.. Jun 25 19:33:38 thanks vi__ & freemangordon Jun 25 19:33:48 Sicelo: I do not recall the bl-5c. Jun 25 19:33:59 Sicelo: on the opposite to the contacts side there are two springs, you should extend them VERY CAREFULLY Jun 25 19:34:27 so your battery will be held tighter Jun 25 19:34:44 Sicelo: Sicelo what country are you in? Jun 25 19:34:59 lulz vi__ :P Jun 25 19:35:01 swaziland Jun 25 19:35:24 mmm, to expensive to mail my spare., Jun 25 19:35:26 atmospheric pressure? ;) Jun 25 19:35:28 oh Jun 25 19:35:31 :D Jun 25 19:35:45 Sicelo: is english your first language? Jun 25 19:36:01 i can buy one from Expansys in South Africa. no, english is my 3rd Jun 25 19:36:15 Sicelo: holy shit. Jun 25 19:36:23 what? :P Jun 25 19:36:28 Sicelo: I feel like the dumbest white guy in the room. Jun 25 19:36:56 reason? Jun 25 19:36:59 Sicelo: so you are understanding EXACTLY what we mean by bending the battery terminals so they make better contact? Jun 25 19:37:10 Sicelo: Because I only speak 1 language :( Jun 25 19:37:23 Sicelo: I studied polish for a while but it is hard as hell. Jun 25 19:37:40 Sicelo: ...and the chick I was trying to impress went away. Jun 25 19:37:51 yes vi__ . i've actually done this battery thing a couple of times before.. in fact, DocScrutinizer05 was helping me on friday iirc Jun 25 19:38:05 well it sounds to me either: Jun 25 19:38:13 vi__: I think is is better to first bend the sprongs that hold the battery against contacts. Only if that don;t help, then it is contacts turn Jun 25 19:38:13 1. The battery is totally fecked. Jun 25 19:38:31 2. It is a different problem. Jun 25 19:38:39 freemangordon: aaah, I understand. Jun 25 19:39:20 Sicelo: is the battery loose in the battery bay? Jun 25 19:39:21 i had the same problem, didn't touch the contacts, only the springs on the opposite side Jun 25 19:39:33 freemangordon: That would make sense. Jun 25 19:39:39 it is battery.. i knew it was .. because sometimes when i turn the N900 on, i have to enter the time (which i doubt s/w can require) Jun 25 19:39:59 Sicelo: That means the power has been removed. Jun 25 19:40:19 Sicelo: which could be the result of several things. Jun 25 19:40:20 poor battery.. still has a lot of life in it :( Jun 25 19:40:37 Sicelo: is this an official nokia battery? Jun 25 19:40:40 Sicelo: what are the other 2 languages you speak? Jun 25 19:40:43 not a cheap knockoff? Jun 25 19:40:45 1240mAh, the last time i checked Jun 25 19:40:58 Sicelo: Ok. Jun 25 19:41:12 Sicelo: most probably there's nothing wrong with your battery, it is just loose Jun 25 19:41:20 vi__: yeah, original, came with the N900. the 1240mAh is i'ts current capacity Jun 25 19:41:23 Sicelo: I assume you understood what freemangordon said about the springs in the battery bay? Jun 25 19:41:33 Sicelo: yes/no? Jun 25 19:41:54 zeq1: wtf? /opt/fennec-16.0a1/ Jun 25 19:41:59 :D:D:D Jun 25 19:42:04 merlin1991: siswati & zulu (well, i cheated, because these two are so close to one another :P) Jun 25 19:42:13 yeah, i understood. thanks Jun 25 19:43:26 brb, making dinner. Jun 25 19:43:33 also, biltong. Jun 25 19:43:58 freemangordon: yeah, as I mentioned, it's forked off mozilla-central. Jun 25 19:45:14 I don't think it'll matter that much Jun 25 19:46:21 zeq: sure, it is just that I was surprised :) Jun 25 19:47:03 I could have made a branch of a release tag, but I didn't think it would matter. Jun 25 19:47:34 hmm, now the progress is, that we have reverse-landscape when device is in portrait :D:D:D. cool. anyway, getting closer Jun 25 19:47:36 probably should have done really. Jun 25 19:47:47 LOL Jun 25 19:48:02 how'd that happen??? Jun 25 19:48:58 I set the rotationangle in MozQOrientationSensorFilter to 270 deg, now will try with 180, that should do the job Jun 25 19:51:08 Ummm.... why are you using that? I thought we we're not using that code? Jun 25 19:51:24 s/we're/were/ Jun 25 19:51:27 zeq meant: Ummm.... why are you using that? I thought we were not using that code? Jun 25 19:51:42 zeq: let me have something working to commit on github, will optimize it afterwards Jun 25 19:51:50 agree? Jun 25 19:52:12 whe you see my commits you will understand why ;) Jun 25 19:52:43 I don't see the point of fixing the wrong code??? I'll take a look... Jun 25 19:52:47 what we will not use is qtm orientation Jun 25 19:53:36 but fennec needs the angle as it does some matrix/transformation magic. that will be the next think to get rid off Jun 25 19:53:39 but we just want to respond to resize events through the qtmaemo(?) API, right? Jun 25 19:54:21 zeq, for some reasin it don;t work, that is what I have been trying since a few hours. it is not QWidget, but QGraphicsWidget Jun 25 19:54:30 *reason Jun 25 19:55:01 it doesn't get rotated with hildon-desktop? Jun 25 19:55:35 zeq: gimme some 20 minutes, trust me , you will see why I do it that way. Getting rid of the rotation will be the next thing to do Jun 25 19:55:47 ok Jun 25 19:55:49 (GLES rotation that is) Jun 25 19:56:23 plus we can always revert the commits :) Jun 25 19:57:02 true Jun 25 19:57:49 btw I'm building gcc-4.6.3, see if that works. Jun 25 19:58:00 :) ok Jun 25 19:58:53 I'll keep an eye on linaro, when it builds qt again we can switch then. Jun 25 19:59:26 ok Jun 25 20:12:37 zeq: https://github.com/sjnewbury/fennec-qt-maemo5/commit/1539cc31529613818a4398e2221fbfe7d698a39d Jun 25 20:12:54 this is the commit we should revert for maemo5 Jun 25 20:12:58 AIUI Jun 25 20:13:09 not sure it will be enough though Jun 25 20:13:10 looking Jun 25 20:17:32 revert or #ifdef it's where all the crazy code originates Jun 25 20:18:05 I am adding #if !(MAEMO_PLATFORM == 5) Jun 25 20:18:29 otherwise I don;t think it will be upstreamed :D Jun 25 20:19:49 Yeah. By the comments though, it sounds like it was just for MeeGo, should have been #if defined WHAT_EVER_MEEGO_DEFINE_IS Jun 25 20:20:14 yeah :( Jun 25 20:20:38 (MOZ_PLATFORM_MAEMO == 6) Jun 25 20:20:48 is it though? Jun 25 20:20:53 nope Jun 25 20:21:13 didn't think so Jun 25 20:21:19 #ifdef MOZ_ENABLE_QTMOBILITY Jun 25 20:21:45 maybe I misunderstood your question Jun 25 20:21:55 qould you rephrase Jun 25 20:21:58 *would Jun 25 20:22:19 MeeGo != Harmattan Jun 25 20:22:35 It doesn't seem qtm gets used anywhere else Jun 25 20:22:54 maemo5 :) Jun 25 20:22:58 but yeah Jun 25 20:23:03 I mean in the mozilla code Jun 25 20:23:22 which one, MOZ_PLATFORM_MAEMO == 6 ? Jun 25 20:23:23 such as exposed for html5 apps Jun 25 20:23:58 ok, lets see the new build ;) Jun 25 20:24:04 isn't MeeGo different UI to Harm? Jun 25 20:24:24 the share meegotouch library Jun 25 20:24:49 *they Jun 25 20:25:15 but I imagine from the earlier report Harm doesn't need that MeeGo rotation code Jun 25 20:25:16 initially it was open, but nokia closed it IIRC Jun 25 20:25:28 zeq: NFC Jun 25 20:26:04 I guess we're not trying to fix the harm port ;) Jun 25 20:26:24 no, what makes you think that Jun 25 20:26:38 HARM == MAEMO6 Jun 25 20:26:55 and I am removeing MAEMO6 code Jun 25 20:27:00 *removing Jun 25 20:27:30 I know. I was just thinking about the report of the strange rotation behaviour ^^ Jun 25 20:27:47 (with Harm) Jun 25 20:29:23 aah, I see Jun 25 20:56:43 gcc-4.6.3 toolchain will be ready shortly Jun 25 21:04:35 no more 4.7? Jun 25 21:05:41 merlin1991: there's a bug in 4.7 currently (both mainline branch and Linaro) which prevents qt from building with neon intrinsics Jun 25 21:05:44 merlin1991: currently there is a neon intrinstics bug in 4.7 Jun 25 21:05:49 :) Jun 25 21:05:56 dang Jun 25 21:06:05 unlucky Jun 25 21:06:17 btw zeq are you building proper scratchbox-gccsomething debs? Jun 25 21:06:41 would be great if we could install the toolchain like the regular maemo sdk target Jun 25 21:06:53 not built the deb, but otherwise yes proper sb alien toolchain Jun 25 21:06:57 sb-core sb-devtools sb-gcc rootstrap and ehre we go Jun 25 21:07:22 not untar somewhere, create config :D Jun 25 21:07:56 zeq: give me some idea how to speedup fennec compilation, avery typo takes me 10 minutes :( Jun 25 21:07:59 native sb toolchain requires building glibc too Jun 25 21:09:48 merlin1991: I did look into it Jun 25 21:10:32 would have been great to the the full thing Jun 25 21:10:50 but decided to use the same glibc binaries as the other toolchains Jun 25 21:11:35 the sb toolchain builder also doesn't take into account other dependencies Jun 25 21:11:51 like ppl cloog etc Jun 25 21:12:37 the ones I've been building do integrate properly though Jun 25 21:13:31 freemangordon: I don't know. I didn't have that problem... or didn't notice, I'm using a SSD if it makes a difference. Jun 25 21:14:07 Your full build-time is certainly less than mine! Jun 25 21:17:14 if the typos are in same file, then compiling just that file until it's syntactically correct might speed up turnaround time Jun 25 21:17:57 then step up one step in tree Jun 25 21:18:06 run make there Jun 25 21:18:30 to build one .o Jun 25 21:18:57 does this make any sense to you? Jun 25 21:19:30 http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo/gcc-4.6.3-fremantle-armv7a.tar.bz2 Jun 25 21:22:49 testing qt4 build Jun 25 21:26:14 DocScrutinizer05: I need the whole think linked Jun 25 21:26:27 and .deb build Jun 25 21:26:54 linking can't get speeded up afaik. but at link time you shouldn't run into any more typos Jun 25 21:27:09 anyway Jun 25 21:27:20 it is just that fennec is HUGE Jun 25 21:28:36 I heard current firefox is faster than the old(?) fenec we got for maemo5 Jun 25 21:28:48 yep Jun 25 21:40:45 lost my net connection, but didn't notice Jun 25 21:48:29 freemangordon: I've encountered any problems with this hildon-desktop. I compiled it with 4.7 + LTO too. Jun 25 21:48:57 zeq: there are problems? Jun 25 21:49:19 I meant *not* :) Jun 25 21:49:27 :) Jun 25 21:49:38 is it thumb-compiled? Jun 25 21:50:26 I merged the double->float conversation, thumb+neon+lto Jun 25 21:50:42 it is *very* fast Jun 25 21:51:00 makes the whole thing feel much more responsive Jun 25 21:51:38 built with the linaro-4.7 Jun 25 21:51:55 great Jun 25 21:53:08 indeed sounds awesome Jun 25 21:53:59 how's binary size? compared to 'original' Jun 25 21:54:22 DocScrutinizer05: 'original' is thumb-compiled too :) Jun 25 21:54:48 lol, I meant original original Jun 25 21:54:48 though neon could reduce binary size further Jun 25 21:56:03 so could lto Jun 25 21:56:16 wtf lto? Jun 25 21:56:56 linaro something I guess Jun 25 21:58:00 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 388012 Jun 24 22:45 /usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch Jun 25 21:58:30 link time optimization Jun 25 21:58:42 aah, yeah :) Jun 25 21:58:47 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 391152 May 27 14:40 /usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch Jun 25 21:59:26 1% Jun 25 21:59:54 or even less. But it is Qt that matters, not h-d Jun 25 22:02:04 qt's still building Jun 25 22:02:15 hmm, not exactly Jun 25 22:02:17 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 482600 2012-04-07 16:16 /usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch Jun 25 22:03:07 some 20% Jun 25 22:03:24 more like it Jun 25 22:04:13 10% according to that #beagle guru, meh Jun 25 22:04:47 * zeq is off to bed Jun 25 22:04:55 bb Jun 25 22:05:35 night guys Jun 25 22:05:41 n8 Jun 25 22:05:46 DocScrutinizer05: you missed our last "discussion" with mra on #linaro Jun 25 22:06:03 obviously Jun 25 22:06:13 it ended up with a statement like:"whatever you say or do, I am right" Jun 25 22:07:20 but at least this time I was not adviced to change the SoC Jun 25 22:07:21 well, diplomacy isn't exactly your foremost competence ;-) Jun 25 22:07:35 that was not my statement ;) Jun 25 22:07:38 (mine neither, btw) Jun 25 22:07:41 otherwise I agree Jun 25 22:08:41 *sigh* Jun 25 22:09:00 those hardcore kernel gurus are sometimes hard to cope with Jun 25 22:09:22 ypu've read that link I posted? Jun 25 22:10:09 it sheds some light on why they are like that, at very least Jun 25 22:10:17 If most of them are like that guy, it is not a surprise linux is in its current state Jun 25 22:10:45 DocScrutinizer05: I opened it, but didn't have time to read it and watch the video. Though I am keeping the link Jun 25 22:11:04 will read it when have some spare time Jun 25 22:11:18 * merlin1991 doesn't see link Jun 25 22:11:23 I didn't watch the video Jun 25 22:11:39 http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/blogs/browse/2012/06/role-linux-kernel-maintainer Jun 25 22:11:50 merlin1991: look ^^^ Jun 25 22:12:26 to them we are the tmo trolls Jun 25 22:12:53 :D Jun 25 22:12:55 it takes some effort not to sound like a troll to them Jun 25 22:13:55 in this very case, I'd actually recommend to (re-)read: Jun 25 22:13:59 ~question Jun 25 22:14:00 somebody said question was If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Jun 25 22:14:16 heh Jun 25 22:48:38 DocScrutinizer, nice to hear that :) Jun 25 22:48:51 peace, peace. We should mark this day in the calendars. Jun 25 22:48:53 Seriously though Jun 25 22:49:04 now I got 1600 lines to read since yesterday, lol Jun 25 22:49:15 I just hope that it's not like 50 % of them are about CA AGAIN Jun 25 22:49:40 BTW, DocScrutinizer, just small clarification, if You don't mind. You've written that Council failed to ask for guidance. I would like to say that it' Jun 25 22:49:44 it's falce, because: Jun 25 22:50:05 on april, this issue was rised first time by me, using mailing list. I proposed to make councilors ineglible to get device, by default. Jun 25 22:50:38 Communtiy response was 100% in line that Councilors should be eglible, as they're volunteers (unpadi) + we got about 20% of voices like "councilors should *have* devices by default" Jun 25 22:50:50 2. It was rised again, on TMO, during final creation of IRC rules Jun 25 22:51:37 ok, I might be wrong regarding that Jun 25 22:51:42 only one person expressed negative opinion about it, in one liner. Rest of interested Communtiy was, again, positive to idea of councilorsd applying for device. Consensus was that councilor applying can't vote for himself, but wil lwork on reviewing other's people submissions Jun 25 22:51:53 it was again announced via mailing lsit, and in TMO. Nobody protested Jun 25 22:52:02 yep, I know these deteils Jun 25 22:52:15 then CA was in run for 3 weeks, with all submissions public, Councilor's ones too. Nobody protested, except for spamming list :P Jun 25 22:52:23 then, after results... ah, I see You know the rest :) Jun 25 22:52:40 no problem, I just wanted to clarify it, as I haven't had idea how much You were involved in it, beside IRC Jun 25 22:53:09 ~N950 Jun 25 22:53:10 I just thought Jaffa or GeneralAntilles would have given advice to not do this CA in exactly this way, if you'd have asked them directly. That's just speculation of me though Jun 25 22:53:37 I may be wrong here, because, as said, shaping CA started in April, But I remember, at least Jaffa input on mailing list Jun 25 22:53:40 if I'm not wrong Jun 25 22:54:19 ok, then maybe their answers were different that what I expected they were Jun 25 22:54:25 again, don't quote me on that, but I think he was amongst people suggesting, that Council.ors should be eglible to participate. BTW, I really like this Community for acting like that, I.E deciding to review submissions by merit, not by who is which role Jun 25 22:54:46 ...and I understand better why You've once set (or kept, no idea) TMO as troll,s morons, and oxies :P Jun 25 22:54:56 actually, only 4 trolls making noise there, but enough for 30 pages in 3 days Jun 25 22:55:16 indeed Jun 25 22:55:31 BTw, I agree that Your idea of applying devices to Councilor before CA is interesting. Hoever, I'm afraid it would create even more oucry Jun 25 22:55:34 outcry* Jun 25 22:55:40 though only abill_uk qualifies for a real troll in my book Jun 25 22:55:56 no, probably not Jun 25 22:55:57 well, AFAIK Aries is abil equvalent in Harmattan Community... Jun 25 22:56:07 and that's real issue why he elft few months ago... Jun 25 22:56:13 then returned here as self-proclaimed voice of Harmattan ;) Jun 25 22:56:22 aries contributed quite a bit to CSSU last time I checked Jun 25 22:56:36 the swiss pass out free heroin to addicts Jun 25 22:56:39 ? Where? isn't it name coincidence? Jun 25 22:56:42 how awesome of a society is that? Jun 25 22:56:52 Macer, :P Jun 25 22:56:58 vi_ ping Jun 25 22:57:19 seems like a lot of community drama Jun 25 22:57:49 well, I also wondered about name coincidence first, iirc Jun 25 22:57:50 it seems that it ended, anyway Jun 25 22:57:52 obviously if all these things are issues then there needs to be a solid way to quantify contributions to the community ;) Jun 25 22:57:57 for 2 days i don't see this shit in active topics anymore Jun 25 22:58:14 like: wiki's written, solutions made... etc Jun 25 22:58:19 someone can keep track of this stuff heh Jun 25 22:58:22 since one day it's closed now ;-D Jun 25 22:58:35 DocScrutinizer, it would be extremely hard foro hi mto contribute to CSSU, as he never held N900 in hand, and don't own N9 or N950 for months now, but, maybe... Jun 25 22:58:42 DocScrutinizer, haha :D Jun 25 22:58:54 Macer, and the, compare grapples to oranges? Jun 25 22:59:05 how is that? :) Jun 25 22:59:05 i.e. how many thanks on TMO = wiki edit?:P Jun 25 22:59:14 no.. thanks are lame haha Jun 25 22:59:19 and one package is what? 5 articles?:P Jun 25 22:59:31 heh.. i would say more of a point system Jun 25 22:59:32 those things are always subjective Jun 25 22:59:38 or we end up with idiotic results Jun 25 22:59:52 and, despite this small shitstorm, I must admit - shamelessly - that most people were satisfied by results Jun 25 22:59:54 article = 5 pts.. applied accepted edit = 1 etc ;) Jun 25 22:59:55 no matter if they won or not Jun 25 23:00:16 well.. i think the problem is that people are selfish and concentrate on the things they do Jun 25 23:00:26 I recall 2 people that lost and cried, after all, and 2 that were not involved in any way, but still cried ;0 Jun 25 23:00:33 without any regard to what others .. nor do they have a quick way to quantify WHY the other person won and not them ;) Jun 25 23:00:36 Macer: we have a solid way to qualify - as solid as it gets, called karma Jun 25 23:00:40 DocScrutinizer, you know that chem|st won one too? Jun 25 23:00:46 LOL... karma hahaha Jun 25 23:00:50 only IRC never got into the equation Jun 25 23:01:06 DocScrutinizer05: lol.. http ruined the world ;) Jun 25 23:01:13 ^^this, + as You see, it's not even possible to agree on whats qualify Jun 25 23:01:22 *this = irc, not http) Jun 25 23:01:45 irc ruined the world? Jun 25 23:01:48 IO would opt for reasonable people doing reasonable choices of winners, and, if not for those 4 people trolling, it seems that everyone agreed Jun 25 23:01:51 no way.. irc is great ;) Jun 25 23:02:00 Macer, no, fire ruined the world :P Jun 25 23:02:07 I meant that irc doesn't qualify for karma, though, seriously Jun 25 23:02:11 nevertheless all is based on karma, or been at least Jun 25 23:02:12 Estel_: i'd say evolution ;) Jun 25 23:02:28 DocScrutinizer, honestly, I'm quite sure that most winners got their karma high Jun 25 23:02:30 you are talking of some sort of some webapp or something? Jun 25 23:02:37 or actual karma? :) Jun 25 23:02:38 DocScrutinizer, also, someone may have 328757437854 karma, but been inactive for year Jun 25 23:02:46 while Ca was for continous contributions Jun 25 23:02:46 * Macer starts to spread happy thoughts to people Jun 25 23:03:02 Macer, karma is point system in TMO Jun 25 23:03:06 yep, the karma decay is not completely implemented Jun 25 23:03:06 oh Jun 25 23:03:08 not TMO Jun 25 23:03:10 maemo.org Jun 25 23:03:23 some points for wiki, some points for edits, apckage testing, uploading, thanks onh tmo... Jun 25 23:03:30 there's karma ratings? :) i never really browsed maemo.org too often Jun 25 23:03:39 only for need.. never for interest Jun 25 23:03:50 See? That why You were not good candidate for CA :P Jun 25 23:03:57 i guess Jun 25 23:04:03 i just hate the web ;) Jun 25 23:04:09 can't blame me for that Jun 25 23:04:11 phone too? Jun 25 23:04:13 of course Jun 25 23:04:15 i'm just curious Jun 25 23:04:29 phone too? no way. i love my n900 Jun 25 23:04:30 You know, landlines got some romantic feel to them, now everyone cvarry phone with him... Jun 25 23:04:34 i'm still heartbroken it is broken :( Jun 25 23:04:35 I'm joking. Jun 25 23:04:41 Macer, so repair it? Jun 25 23:04:44 eyo girl wuss poppin :> Jun 25 23:04:45 Or buy new motherboard Jun 25 23:04:55 you can buy new n900 motherboards? Jun 25 23:04:56 heh Jun 25 23:04:56 hi blackberry Jun 25 23:05:09 Macer, no, You can buy new N90 0and take motherboard from it Jun 25 23:05:18 LOL Jun 25 23:05:21 this is my 2nd one ;) Jun 25 23:05:25 = you can buy N900 with sad body and screen, then sue it's motherboard to repair Your ideal condition N900 Jun 25 23:05:26 first one had the usb break off Jun 25 23:05:32 2nd one had the sim card reader/modem issue Jun 25 23:05:38 lol Jun 25 23:05:40 i think i'm tapped out of will to buy another one Jun 25 23:05:44 Well, from time to time I have N900's with reinforced (via soldering, not epoxy...) ports, for sale Jun 25 23:05:46 i only got one, about to send it to warranty this week lol Jun 25 23:06:01 RiD, and then to sue Nokia for trashing it? Jun 25 23:06:06 without Your allowance? Jun 25 23:06:06 RiD: i couldn't they said the phone had to be sent via UK Jun 25 23:06:08 sigh Jun 25 23:06:15 at least the wifi still works.. i use it time to time Jun 25 23:06:20 Estel_ i there is still hope Jun 25 23:06:31 but i have att now anyways.. only reason i kept tmob was for my beloved n900 :( Jun 25 23:06:36 yea, that someone will finally sue them for criminal "support" Jun 25 23:06:40 Estel_ and i suck at hardware reparations - and i wouldn't trust repair shops around here. They fix your issue, and add a couple more ones Jun 25 23:06:43 tmobile totally sucks in chicago Jun 25 23:06:54 RiD, totally agree Jun 25 23:06:57 but be carefull Jun 25 23:07:09 and write in bold letters, that you don't accept replacement, and don't allow them to recycle it Jun 25 23:07:16 as they seem to do so without asking Jun 25 23:07:17 I am going to do that Jun 25 23:07:18 lol Jun 25 23:07:22 for sure. Also warn the guy at the nokia care Jun 25 23:07:24 i wouldn't mind an e7 :) Jun 25 23:07:38 or an n950 :-P Jun 25 23:07:38 yea, to sell it and buy N900 + have cash in hand after whole transaction Jun 25 23:07:53 Estel_: well.. i'd actually WANT the e7 ;) Jun 25 23:07:57 symbian doesn't suck Jun 25 23:07:58 eh, I already got one idi... guy asking me, if my N950 is for sale Jun 25 23:08:14 N950s are collectors items Jun 25 23:08:15 symbian doesn't suck, it just blowjob Your mind Jun 25 23:08:20 haha Jun 25 23:08:25 he is smartphone, so he is smart, You don't have to. Jun 25 23:08:31 yeah i guess.. but as long as i have a gtalk/xmpp and ssh client i'm good Jun 25 23:08:34 the rest is unnecessary Jun 25 23:08:36 he steals being smart from you :p Jun 25 23:08:41 Macer i can give you a symbian device. N73 Jun 25 23:08:49 5320 :P Jun 25 23:08:52 RiD: lol Jun 25 23:08:55 Macer little use. Missing screen, keyboard, case, speakers. Only motherboard + flex cable Jun 25 23:08:55 i had an n95 Jun 25 23:08:58 but i want a newer one ;) Jun 25 23:09:03 like an e7 Jun 25 23:09:05 Macer no scratches at all. (since it has no case) Jun 25 23:09:06 mostly for the qwerty Jun 25 23:09:10 haha Jun 25 23:09:13 Macer want a better option? It's in pristine condition Jun 25 23:09:14 give me an n900 instead :-P Jun 25 23:09:15 seriously, E7 suxx, I want computer with phone function in my pocket Jun 25 23:09:25 not phone pretending that it can sshso it's computer :P Jun 25 23:09:29 Estel_: n900 is the only one ;) Jun 25 23:09:34 the rest suck Jun 25 23:09:36 sadly, yes Jun 25 23:09:40 i have a lumia 900.. sucks Jun 25 23:09:40 Macer i thought about selling mine, took a look at those monster quad cores but erm Jun 25 23:09:42 android sucks. ios sucks Jun 25 23:09:45 although, some guys try to chroot into fremantle from harm Jun 25 23:09:49 maemo was the ONLY ONE Jun 25 23:09:49 They all seem so impractical to multitask on Jun 25 23:09:54 wow i hate nokia Jun 25 23:09:54 and have HD working Jun 25 23:09:55 heh Jun 25 23:09:57 (hildon desktop) Jun 25 23:10:12 well, Fremantle run from chroot with 1GB of RAM would be somehow nice Jun 25 23:10:14 maemo was the only true linux distro on a phone Jun 25 23:10:15 :( Jun 25 23:10:19 of course they want to sp;are us closed blobs Jun 25 23:10:22 * Macer sheds another tear for his n900 Jun 25 23:10:28 it's like the crippled kid Jun 25 23:10:36 Macer, Mer is, but fre ui for it - Nemo - is terrible Jun 25 23:10:37 More like nowadays music :> Jun 25 23:10:46 heh Jun 25 23:10:48 that's what i hear Jun 25 23:10:54 but no ui is no fun Jun 25 23:10:58 MAcer, but there is also plasma active, no idea about it Jun 25 23:11:01 Macer: (karma) http://wiki.maemo.org/Karma Jun 25 23:11:03 i haen't tried it Jun 25 23:11:08 write Your own :p Jun 25 23:11:14 i want to put plasma on my transformer Jun 25 23:11:19 :) Jun 25 23:11:29 just need to figure out how soon :) Jun 25 23:11:31 so do Yourself a favor and make plasma lamp Jun 25 23:11:32 maybe i will do it this weekend Jun 25 23:11:38 like good novice electronic engineer :P Jun 25 23:11:42 plasma lamps are awesome :-P Jun 25 23:11:55 in fact, they are Jun 25 23:12:00 but i honestly wouldn't mind an e7 Jun 25 23:12:07 i mean it isn't a bad phone.. just not well accepted :) Jun 25 23:12:08 I also like those green glowing things that you put on your keys Jun 25 23:12:13 but, but, plasma as a mean to keep vacuum in penetrable container is even more OP Jun 25 23:12:13 actually radiactive. but i forgot the name Jun 25 23:12:34 but my lumia 900 allows almost no background running Jun 25 23:12:35 RiD, androids, probably Jun 25 23:12:47 Macer, don't say that name in public :P Jun 25 23:12:47 best you can get is an app going while in the foreground with the screen blanked Jun 25 23:12:57 Estel_ they're not that cool Jun 25 23:12:58 try that with wifi on ;) Jun 25 23:13:09 Estel_: LOL yeah.. the wifi sucks too ;) Jun 25 23:13:16 Rid, little green guys to be put into your keys... looks like perfect description of android mascot Jun 25 23:13:16 wtf is up with turning it off when the screen goes off Jun 25 23:13:18 radioactive too Jun 25 23:13:19 with no way to keep it on? Jun 25 23:13:28 and NO wifi settings.. other than connecting with dhcp Jun 25 23:13:30 Macer, it's winphonme legacy Jun 25 23:13:34 winphone 6 was the same Jun 25 23:13:41 they need to get rid of that Jun 25 23:13:47 few years ago I spent few days trying to figure out how to make it On with screen off Jun 25 23:13:49 the wifi chipsets probably waste less power than the cell modem :-P Jun 25 23:13:52 for my father's smartphone Jun 25 23:13:57 you can't Jun 25 23:13:58 lol Jun 25 23:14:03 no, seriously?:P noticed that Jun 25 23:14:06 you can't even set an ip or dns or gateway etc Jun 25 23:14:11 wtf? Jun 25 23:14:16 why you shouldn't, it have to be smart, not You Jun 25 23:14:16 what if you didn't use dhcp? Jun 25 23:14:18 it know better Jun 25 23:14:31 you're just screwed unless you use dhcp i guess Jun 25 23:14:38 maybe if it doesn't find a dhcp server it asks you for the info Jun 25 23:14:40 i wonder Jun 25 23:14:47 honestly, I'm surprised that You don't sell this crap, but, of course, none of my business Jun 25 23:14:57 it isn't that bad at all tbh.. as far as a phone goes Jun 25 23:15:08 Mace,r sure, and what about DHCP servers that servere only pre-defined macs?... Jun 25 23:15:08 i just miss the n900 luxuries :-/ Jun 25 23:15:22 Macer, it *is* that bad, esp for that price. i.e. even if they give it for free Jun 25 23:15:34 yeah hahaha. .it was pretty much free when i got it Jun 25 23:15:36 MAcer, I don't have this problem - I use N900 and don't need to miss anything :) Jun 25 23:15:44 well.. 2 of my n900s broke Jun 25 23:15:51 i'm not buying another one unless i find one for like 20$ Jun 25 23:15:53 heh Jun 25 23:15:56 *shrugs* solder usb on 3th one and You should be good Jun 25 23:16:07 no problem .I can sell you one for 180 euro :p Jun 25 23:16:10 how did it break? Jun 25 23:16:16 ds3: sim reader problem Jun 25 23:16:21 where it keeps resetting the sim Jun 25 23:16:22 his n900? 1st usb port 2nd cell modem failure Jun 25 23:16:34 Macer, try hammer method from TMO :P Jun 25 23:16:39 oh Jun 25 23:16:42 hammer method? LOL Jun 25 23:16:46 that doesn't sound good Jun 25 23:16:53 did the person who wrote it get an n950? Jun 25 23:16:54 yea, one guy fixed it by using hammer and nails, and it was xnot joke Jun 25 23:17:00 haha Jun 25 23:17:07 contribution of the year Jun 25 23:17:11 well, I suspect broken solder joints Jun 25 23:17:12 goes to .. the hammer method Jun 25 23:17:18 reflowing would fix it better Jun 25 23:17:29 broken solder joints? Jun 25 23:17:32 why not just resolder? Jun 25 23:17:34 * Estel_ nods Jun 25 23:17:45 no idea, I would resolder. Jun 25 23:17:48 he preffered hammer. Jun 25 23:17:52 * Estel_ shrugs Jun 25 23:17:54 heh Jun 25 23:17:57 reflowing is not particularly trivial Jun 25 23:18:06 SpeedEvil, but it's not under chip Jun 25 23:18:11 it's only under sim car holder Jun 25 23:18:11 Sure it is Jun 25 23:18:15 is it? Jun 25 23:18:17 Umm - no. Jun 25 23:18:23 card* Jun 25 23:18:29 SIM card errors are not errors due to the SIM card connector Jun 25 23:18:30 well, if using hammer @ sim car holderhelped him... Jun 25 23:18:35 SpeedEvil, sometimes are. Jun 25 23:18:39 sometimes it's about gsm modem Jun 25 23:18:45 I would go so far as to say almost never. Jun 25 23:18:48 how can you tell the difference? Jun 25 23:18:57 so, people putting 2nd sim or paper to make pressure? Jun 25 23:19:11 yeah. mine worked ok putting pressure on it with paper Jun 25 23:19:17 for a while.. then it stopped working :( Jun 25 23:19:18 In principle, if spcing the contacts out on the SIM reader, or cleaning them made it work again flawlessly Jun 25 23:19:26 Putting paper under it also stresses the board Jun 25 23:19:32 SpeedEvil: i tried that too Jun 25 23:19:35 which can change the nature of a bad solder ball. Jun 25 23:19:44 and make it contact again for a bit Jun 25 23:20:04 or just hit it with a hammer and bend it back Jun 25 23:20:07 :) Jun 25 23:20:12 SpeedEvil, someone suggested, that heat from battery make sim card holder - and, through it, balls - to heat and cool Jun 25 23:20:15 thus errors Jun 25 23:20:17 bullshit? Jun 25 23:20:20 or can be related? Jun 25 23:20:36 somehow, I doubt it... Jun 25 23:20:37 There is essentially no heat from the battery that's meaningful. Jun 25 23:20:38 heat from the battery ? heh Jun 25 23:20:44 i was about to say Jun 25 23:20:47 SpeedEvil, exactly my thoughts Jun 25 23:20:50 the battery probably doesn't produce much Jun 25 23:20:59 At most ~20C - with an old battery Jun 25 23:21:00 I'vbe never seen it going more than 60 C Jun 25 23:21:19 SpeedEvil, no joke, when using 1A of power it's 50c without problem Jun 25 23:21:22 SpeedEvil: so are the broken contacts simply unreachable with a soldering iron? Jun 25 23:21:28 Macer, yes. Jun 25 23:21:30 simcardholder pins are _not_ under simcard holder Jun 25 23:21:34 but ther eis other idea Jun 25 23:21:48 a plain 8 pins easily resolderable Jun 25 23:21:48 that sucks Jun 25 23:21:49 Macer: they are under the chips likely Jun 25 23:21:51 DocScrutinizer, huh? so why paper between simcard and holder works? Jun 25 23:22:01 Macer: A delaminated board. Jun 25 23:22:04 and gigantic in relation to other such pads Jun 25 23:22:05 Macer: Ball Jun 25 23:22:17 In principle resoldering the SIM connector is easy Jun 25 23:22:19 but... Jun 25 23:22:25 well, many people repaired video cards by removing what was possible to be removed... Jun 25 23:22:36 and putting it for ten minutes in oven Jun 25 23:22:39 250 C Jun 25 23:22:45 LOL! Jun 25 23:22:47 side effect - plastic aprts on motherboard lose color Jun 25 23:22:52 in soviet russia we bake phones! Jun 25 23:23:03 Macer, it's old, actually, and confirmed to work ion 90 % of cases Jun 25 23:23:05 In principle, that's possible, to a degree. Jun 25 23:23:09 (if it doens't work due to bad ball) Jun 25 23:23:11 yep Jun 25 23:23:25 wow really? Jun 25 23:23:29 It would however require several test cycles to find a likely profile that will work, and not kill the board. Jun 25 23:23:32 you lie :) Jun 25 23:23:37 of course. It's all due to crappy, RoHS solder used Jun 25 23:23:40 nope Jun 25 23:23:45 SpeedEvil, true Jun 25 23:23:49 crazy Jun 25 23:23:55 wlel, good old Pb solder was more resistant Jun 25 23:23:57 but i feel skeptical about doing that Jun 25 23:24:01 Macer, |I was surprised to first time :p Jun 25 23:24:10 Macer, actually, do it only if You have nothing to lose Jun 25 23:24:12 how much would nokia charge to fix it? Jun 25 23:24:19 if i sent it in for repair? Jun 25 23:24:20 i.e. graphic card, that cost similar ammount to reflowing Jun 25 23:24:28 and opted to pay? Jun 25 23:24:31 Macer, they wouldn't fix it for any ammount of money Jun 25 23:24:34 lol Jun 25 23:24:36 wtf? Jun 25 23:24:40 ask them Jun 25 23:24:45 how much would their contracted repair place charge? Jun 25 23:24:47 heh Jun 25 23:25:11 Macer: they will not fix it Jun 25 23:25:19 DocScrutinizer, BTw, you know that I was able to screw one N900 while strenghtening USb port via solder method? Jun 25 23:25:32 so my option is to reflow or shove it in an oven? Jun 25 23:25:34 heh Jun 25 23:25:35 wtf? Jun 25 23:25:37 somehow, still mystery for me, USB - and V5 got crossed Jun 25 23:25:53 no idea why, my soldering iron was far away Jun 25 23:26:09 happened to me only, once, I was super carefull from this accident Jun 25 23:26:14 strange Jun 25 23:26:32 the strangest thing was that I wasn't able to see cross looking at pins Jun 25 23:26:47 and when connected charger to port, it looked like spark is coming from inside laminate, lol Jun 25 23:26:56 just like heat made it to cross under surface Jun 25 23:27:10 it was fuckin unrepairable Jun 25 23:27:31 so set the oven to 250 and keep it in ther ehow long? Jun 25 23:27:37 :-/ Jun 25 23:27:49 that made, of course, my charhing chip totally broken, resulting in one N900 inw orld that does work, but doesn't answer for i2c request regarding charging Jun 25 23:27:52 too bad i can't just put it in the microwave Jun 25 23:28:03 siode effect - camera wasn't working too, for reasons unknown, I've scavenged working camera module from it Jun 25 23:28:06 Macer, haha Jun 25 23:28:13 Macer, instructions are likely: Jun 25 23:28:19 pre-heat oven to 250 C Jun 25 23:28:33 dissasemble N900 removing whatever is possible to remove, camera module absolutely necessary Jun 25 23:28:35 i have to preheat it too? am i baking cookies afterwards? :) Jun 25 23:28:36 or it will be screwed Jun 25 23:28:41 yes :) Jun 25 23:28:47 ..and your next pizza will taste like? :) Jun 25 23:28:52 Preheat for 12 hours at 80C Jun 25 23:28:55 nox-: chinese Jun 25 23:28:56 when it's 250 C, put N900 for 7 to 10 minutes Jun 25 23:28:58 to avoid the chips popcorning Jun 25 23:29:03 Macer, :) Jun 25 23:29:07 preheat oven only, not N900 :P Jun 25 23:29:18 well, it's true, that smell isn't best Jun 25 23:29:21 Estel_: maybe i'll try it this weekend ;) Jun 25 23:29:23 better do it without wife at home Jun 25 23:29:31 7-10 minutews Jun 25 23:29:33 no longer Jun 25 23:29:36 and remove it quickly Jun 25 23:29:39 Preheat the n900 Jun 25 23:29:40 then, allow it to cool slowly Jun 25 23:29:47 "don't remove it quickly*" Jun 25 23:29:49 you need to dry out any moisture in the chips. Jun 25 23:29:50 cam module is just a detatchable ribbon cable isn't it? Jun 25 23:30:00 SpeedEvil, lol, I was told to not pre-heat it Jun 25 23:30:07 Macer, no Jun 25 23:30:13 Preheating to 80C. Jun 25 23:30:19 Speed evil, and then? Jun 25 23:30:27 WTF? disconnected Jun 25 23:30:28 detatchable part? i forget.. i haven't taken one apart since my usb debacle Jun 25 23:30:44 MAcer, to remove camera module You need either camera module removal tool, or two gilletes Jun 25 23:30:48 and screwdriver Jun 25 23:30:57 or one gillete broken into two Jun 25 23:31:00 DocScrutinizer05: the irc council had a vote and decided only they get the irc connections Jun 25 23:31:01 and screwdriver Jun 25 23:31:15 SpeedEvil, good point about moisture and popcorn Jun 25 23:31:22 Estel_: honestly. are you from russia? :) Jun 25 23:31:31 SpeedEvil, so, after pre-heating N90 0to 80 C, remove it form oven and pre-heat oven to 250, or what? Jun 25 23:31:35 Macer, nope Jun 25 23:31:38 two half gillettes and a screwdriver? hehe Jun 25 23:31:42 and baking chips was invented in UK Jun 25 23:31:51 sounds like soviet spacecraft work Jun 25 23:31:58 haha Jun 25 23:31:58 MAcer, try to remove module otherwise, without removal tool which is freaking expensive Jun 25 23:32:01 :P Jun 25 23:32:06 http://www.ami.ac.uk/courses/topics/0159_moab/solutions/0159_moab_s01.htm Jun 25 23:32:08 popcorn Jun 25 23:32:11 well, for me it sounds like DIOY ;) Jun 25 23:32:14 LOL Jun 25 23:32:15 DIY* Jun 25 23:32:21 well.. i will try it out this weekend Jun 25 23:32:27 worst i'll have is just another broken n900 Jun 25 23:32:35 i'll just send you guys the other parts like the screens etc :-P Jun 25 23:32:43 maybe i'll get an n950 for my community work Jun 25 23:33:09 SpeedEvil, so, seriously,l after pre-heating N900 to 80C, what next? Jun 25 23:33:13 remove it from the oven? Jun 25 23:33:21 and heat oven further, to 250 C? Jun 25 23:33:34 lol.. .C? Jun 25 23:33:39 i'd need to convert to F :-P Jun 25 23:33:42 leave it for 12 hours Jun 25 23:33:45 then remove Jun 25 23:33:45 you wacky EUs Jun 25 23:33:47 Mace,r one guy already promsied that he will try to repair broken eMMC balls with it, but he never replied Jun 25 23:33:50 with your weird measurements Jun 25 23:33:55 I question this is useful though Jun 25 23:34:02 SpeedEvil, no no Jun 25 23:34:11 I'm asking how to p[rotect 80 C N900 from moisture Jun 25 23:34:16 while pre-heating oven to 250 C Jun 25 23:34:23 Doesn't matter Jun 25 23:34:27 and before you put it to 250 C for 6-10 minutes Jun 25 23:34:29 Estel_: well. like i said.. i'll look it up and try it over the weekend Jun 25 23:34:30 * Estel_ nods Jun 25 23:34:36 it will be dry, and will not absorb moisture meaningfully in the time it's out Jun 25 23:34:38 who knows :) Jun 25 23:34:40 Macer, ok, but listen, to notmake fata mistake Jun 25 23:34:53 The problem is that moisture gets deep into the package Jun 25 23:34:54 after 6-10 minutes, immediately open oven and turn it off, but don't remove N90 0from it Jun 25 23:35:04 let it cool down slowly Jun 25 23:35:08 to avoid cracking of balls Jun 25 23:35:13 and, basically, anything Jun 25 23:35:25 so don't put it in a pool of water afterwards like i'm smelting iron swords? Jun 25 23:35:34 it should drop quicklyto 150 or 120 C due to opened owen,... Jun 25 23:35:37 Macer, yea ;) Jun 25 23:35:40 then report back Jun 25 23:35:40 :) Jun 25 23:35:43 ok Jun 25 23:35:46 what do i put it on? Jun 25 23:35:49 a pizza pan? Jun 25 23:35:50 and, remember, 8-10 minutes was for graphic cards, which are bigger a little Jun 25 23:36:00 erm, baking paper? Jun 25 23:36:07 baking paper? Jun 25 23:36:12 foil? Jun 25 23:36:17 * Estel_ nods Jun 25 23:36:26 it's sold as foil or as paper, both high temperature resistant Jun 25 23:36:46 remember to strip n900 motherboard bare as much as possible Jun 25 23:36:54 yeah will do Jun 25 23:36:58 and asny plastic part may lose it's colour Jun 25 23:37:08 I'm not sure about keyboard, the internal one, and it's foil Jun 25 23:37:19 DocScrutinizer, might have better knowledge if it's removeable Jun 25 23:37:22 and re-attachable Jun 25 23:37:30 the keyboard has plastic that melts rather easily Jun 25 23:37:37 i don't mean black keyboard Jun 25 23:37:44 i know :-P Jun 25 23:37:46 i'm thinking about white thing on motherboard, that cover real keys Jun 25 23:37:48 it is, when you are extremely carefull Jun 25 23:37:50 i'm talking the internal white stuff Jun 25 23:37:53 yea Jun 25 23:38:01 DocScrutinizer, how this things is removed and re-attached? Jun 25 23:38:07 it's glued, isn't it? Jun 25 23:38:19 razotblade otr dentis-pin Jun 25 23:38:24 well, i'm very curious what you will cook. Jun 25 23:38:26 * Estel_ nods Jun 25 23:38:30 heh Jun 25 23:38:35 and *carefully* Jun 25 23:38:36 in soviet russia we bake n900s Jun 25 23:38:36 I was able to de-attach digitizer from mask this way Jun 25 23:38:45 well, in fact, in USA Jun 25 23:38:46 yes, sticky Jun 25 23:38:50 lol Jun 25 23:38:56 as You'r one will be first confirmed report of such try Jun 25 23:39:00 Estel_: some may argue they are the same thing nowadays Jun 25 23:39:03 I'm keeping my thumbs for it ;) Jun 25 23:39:11 well, don't over-cook it Jun 25 23:39:16 and it stand chance Jun 25 23:39:21 heh.. i will do it this weekend Jun 25 23:39:23 saturday Jun 25 23:39:23 would be epicly funny to see it repaired this way Jun 25 23:39:32 if it works that would be awesome Jun 25 23:39:39 attaching is maybe even more demanding than removing Jun 25 23:39:41 i'll blog it ;) Jun 25 23:39:41 just don't do like thisd last guy who promised to try it and never ever answered again Jun 25 23:39:50 it has to fit, you know? Jun 25 23:39:52 DocScrutinizer05: the keyboard? Jun 25 23:39:56 yep Jun 25 23:39:59 heh Jun 25 23:40:18 DocScrutinizer, from common sense, what's worse, removing it and re-attaching, or risk of melting it? Jun 25 23:40:21 can't i just use some sort of air heater? Jun 25 23:40:22 :) Jun 25 23:40:26 I don't think it have chance in 250 C for 7 minutes Jun 25 23:40:29 on the specific section? Jun 25 23:40:33 there's a Nokia guiding tool for attaching new domesheet Jun 25 23:40:35 Macer, no way Jun 25 23:40:48 DocScrutinizer, we need to hire mercenaries and scavenge some tools from Nokia Jun 25 23:40:50 it will melt and go fubar Jun 25 23:40:52 would make life easier Jun 25 23:41:06 heh ah well Jun 25 23:41:13 so, removal is necessary Jun 25 23:41:16 * SpeedEvil wants a pile of old broken n900 motherboards. Jun 25 23:41:19 Estel_: mark your calendar Jun 25 23:41:24 definitely not rewlow'able Jun 25 23:41:25 i will do it this weekend Jun 25 23:41:27 on TMO there is photo on how to remove camera module with gilletes and screwdriver Jun 25 23:41:28 and bake my n900 Jun 25 23:41:29 hahhaha Jun 25 23:41:38 "what's cooking"? :) Jun 25 23:41:44 if it breaks... i'll blend it Jun 25 23:41:50 well.. oven type stuff is more of a bake Jun 25 23:41:53 (well, I want a pile of new, working OMAP5 boards, but...) Jun 25 23:41:53 cooking is usually pans Jun 25 23:42:03 i want a rasberry pi :-/ Jun 25 23:42:11 people started getting them and i hear they're actually quite awesome Jun 25 23:42:20 Today I got reply that those bastards sent it via royal mail, 2-3 weekls delivery Jun 25 23:42:23 Macer: It's a 12 year old laptop - basically. Jun 25 23:42:28 and they charged like for DHL Jun 25 23:42:36 they have a ver of xbmc that works great on raspi Jun 25 23:42:37 Macer: With a decent GPU, that can decode one modern codec Jun 25 23:42:44 'great' varies. Jun 25 23:42:44 SpeedEvil, but 12 years old laptop weights 3 KG Jun 25 23:42:58 ShadowJK: ping Jun 25 23:43:00 SpeedEvil: well... he said it plays 1080p mkv just fine running rasbmc Jun 25 23:43:03 ShadowJK: any mail? Jun 25 23:43:12 Macer, but it doesn't play DVD's, i.e. mpeg-2 Jun 25 23:43:13 :P Jun 25 23:43:19 wh the hell uses that anymore? :) Jun 25 23:43:27 mpeg2 is like .. so 1990s Jun 25 23:43:33 Macer, DVB-T in some countries, and, of course, good old DVDS Jun 25 23:43:46 Estel_: i haven't even touched a dvd in like 5 years Jun 25 23:43:47 XBMC without DVD is questionable Jun 25 23:43:56 that's what handbrake is for ;) Jun 25 23:44:04 don't tell me that You use blue-ray daily ;) Jun 25 23:44:15 no Jun 25 23:44:24 i usually just encode mkvs Jun 25 23:44:35 encodiong = quality loss Jun 25 23:44:42 I'mquality geek Jun 25 23:44:45 Estel_: i'm not that much of a videophile to care ;) Jun 25 23:44:56 and high quality h264/dts works fine Jun 25 23:44:59 for music I either use FLAC or ogg with settings, that make it "transparent encoding" Jun 25 23:45:16 you'd have to have an eagle eye and dog ears to notice it :) Jun 25 23:45:30 which reminds me of idiots who record in 96 KHZ just to down-sample it to 48 later Jun 25 23:45:39 because they think it produce better quality Jun 25 23:46:03 They may be right, depending on the filter. Jun 25 23:46:08 heh Jun 25 23:46:12 Macer, hardware improves, I want it to persist ideal for historical reasons too, not be forced to re-encode from loong-lsot originals in 10 years Jun 25 23:46:14 i hate securom so much :[ Jun 25 23:46:20 vinyl is a more true sound Jun 25 23:46:21 * Macer hides Jun 25 23:46:29 SpeedEvil, honestly, if You plan to mix in 48, better record in it Jun 25 23:46:31 not if you scratch it :D Jun 25 23:46:37 RiD: heh Jun 25 23:46:38 RiD, exactly Jun 25 23:46:45 RiD: i saw people arguing over that crap for an hour Jun 25 23:46:56 talking about how the analog wave produces a richer sound Jun 25 23:46:59 and I came here to extend that period Jun 25 23:47:00 like someone would even notice that Jun 25 23:47:11 digital waves step Jun 25 23:47:15 Macer, honestly, it doesn't produce a richer sound,s but sound that they're more used too Jun 25 23:47:22 I'm used to my Audigy 2ZS gold sound Jun 25 23:47:29 cause every equipment got it own little disortions Jun 25 23:47:32 i'm used to crap speakers Jun 25 23:47:32 that we get used to Jun 25 23:47:38 i guess... but these fools swore the waves produced by analog as oppsed to digital were better Jun 25 23:47:38 because crap is cheap Jun 25 23:47:45 be serious :) Jun 25 23:47:51 nobody can physically hear that Jun 25 23:47:56 Macer, what really destroyes effect is loudness war Jun 25 23:48:02 *this* is thing everyone can hear Jun 25 23:48:09 people worrying about the vinyl Jun 25 23:48:13 how about the actual speakers Jun 25 23:48:24 i.e. sacrificing varying sound (sounds range) for just mixing louder Jun 25 23:48:39 RiD, in fact, good sounding speakers doesn't have to be expensive Jun 25 23:48:45 RiD: lol Jun 25 23:48:50 many expensive are good ones, but it's not rule Jun 25 23:49:06 the best ones are the people with digital turntables :) Jun 25 23:49:15 dafuq? Jun 25 23:49:16 Estel_ i know. I am currently using not-good-for-audiophiles old Logitech Z-560 Jun 25 23:49:21 which convert the sound to digital anyways Jun 25 23:49:31 Macer, lol Jun 25 23:49:31 don't newer turntables have lasers? Jun 25 23:49:50 Just don't feel like spending money on it anytime soon. With a global equalizer to raise the higher pitches it still sounds reasonalbe. Jun 25 23:49:54 I would love analog that measures vinyl by laser, not physical needle Jun 25 23:50:17 RiD, i don't use equalizers at all, unles on really, really disorted things Jun 25 23:50:21 Estel_: real time tick and scratch skipping ? ;) Jun 25 23:50:21 like mobile speakers Jun 25 23:50:36 Macer, no, just protecting vinyls from scratch Jun 25 23:50:41 Estel_ i use equalizer because my speakers lack some higher mids and the highs overall Jun 25 23:50:44 when laser or diode follows track, not needle Jun 25 23:50:46 finding new vinyls is hard sometimes Jun 25 23:50:53 Macer, not necessary Jun 25 23:50:53 Estel_: i thought they had those Jun 25 23:51:06 laser needles Jun 25 23:51:10 Macer, quite possible, I don't have one, so I'm afraid to run my vinyls :P Jun 25 23:51:18 well, actually, I have some vinyls and no adaptor at all :P Jun 25 23:51:22 heh Jun 25 23:51:30 basically, i'm collecting everything related to Tori Amos music Jun 25 23:51:30 you should look it up ;) Jun 25 23:52:02 best part is when you get the laser needle.. get ready to use it.. pull the vinyl out.. and drop the record onto the floor lol Jun 25 23:52:04 ...including some pirate things, that she haven't been aware of (existence) while signing it Jun 25 23:53:50 The only thing i collect is dust on my table. Jun 25 23:54:45 wqell, I do listen to this music, except vinyls, kept for special ocassions Jun 25 23:54:46 ;) Jun 25 23:55:05 so, I'm eagerly waiting for Macer report about cxooking, lol. Without high hopes, but... Jun 25 23:55:21 hell, i hate this securom drm Jun 25 23:56:19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_taI-CkPD3M Jun 25 23:56:23 RiD, get rid of securom Jun 25 23:56:30 i have to use it Jun 25 23:56:37 otherwise i can't play the game Jun 25 23:57:08 http://www.addictivetips.com/hardware/fix-your-graphics-card-by-baking-in-oven/ Jun 25 23:57:13 RiD, don't play games with securom Jun 25 23:57:22 either pirate it on purpose, or screw as whole :) Jun 25 23:57:36 Macer, they converted it to F, but they use 200 C Jun 25 23:57:39 I recommend more Jun 25 23:57:44 maybe 250 is too high for N900 Jun 25 23:57:44 well Jun 25 23:57:46 220? Jun 25 23:57:54 230 is the sweet spot Jun 25 23:58:05 SecuROM detects the disc emulator software Jun 25 23:58:05 from math, or from practice? Jun 25 23:58:11 RiD, I know Jun 25 23:58:13 practice Jun 25 23:58:17 but it have been hacked anyway, ages ago Jun 25 23:58:19 I really need a workaround Jun 25 23:58:28 Yes, but apparently I'm not updated on these areas Jun 25 23:58:32 jsut don't playgames with securom Jun 25 23:58:44 but then I can't play my favorite game Jun 25 23:58:47 tell vendors that release witrrh securom to GTFO Jun 25 23:58:49 that i finally legally own lol Jun 25 23:58:52 show them middle finger Jun 25 23:59:04 so sell it on aftermarket with disgust Jun 25 23:59:06 :P Jun 25 23:59:12 Buy physical copy, leech warez version off the Internet. Jun 25 23:59:15 securom is *only* to not allow legal owners to play Jun 25 23:59:20 Sorry, did I say warez? I meant to say Linux distro! Jun 25 23:59:25 :P Jun 25 23:59:43 RiD, every priating person have no problem with playting securom things downloaded from... erm, linux distro Jun 25 23:59:51 securom is special gift for You, from loving developers Jun 25 23:59:56 and, even more, from vendor Jun 25 23:59:57 the fact is that I don't own the game physically Jun 26 00:00:08 You own it mentally? Jun 26 00:00:22 Erm. The game is activated with the serial and so on Jun 26 00:00:26 I know it. I feel like owning dizzy collection from amiga Jun 26 00:00:28 I know, I know :P Jun 26 00:00:39 but since i don't own the disc, I am trying to get a iso / mds working Jun 26 00:00:51 I tell you, just screw games with securom. At worst, pirate them, as securom is criminal attack on your rights. Jun 26 00:00:55 At best, ignore them as whole Jun 26 00:01:02 I had it pirated. Then bought it for 0$ Jun 26 00:01:22 tell us more about buying game with secxurom for 0 usd Jun 26 00:01:26 now i'm trying to fool securom into thinking my virtual disc is physic for real Jun 26 00:01:42 run it under linux with wine. problem solved Jun 26 00:01:50 but no multiplayer! Jun 26 00:02:00 why so? Jun 26 00:02:10 because it needs securom :( Jun 26 00:02:19 so download cracked version, if youre piratting it anyway Jun 26 00:02:25 or mvoe to better games Jun 26 00:02:29 move* Jun 26 00:02:50 I've been playing this game cracked since 2009 or so. Jun 26 00:02:58 You know how many FOSS games with great details etc are out there waiting for You?:P Jun 26 00:03:03 But I recently got a legit serial key that validated and all. Jun 26 00:03:05 so continue to do, if you really bought it Jun 26 00:03:14 But i never owned it physically. I want to try multiplayer Jun 26 00:03:15 You see? being legal only bring troubles Jun 26 00:03:24 That's why I barely have any physical game Jun 26 00:03:31 burn images on real disc Jun 26 00:03:35 use them Jun 26 00:03:38 with Your legal serial Jun 26 00:03:40 problem solved. Jun 26 00:03:41 It needs specific settings Jun 26 00:03:44 i guess Jun 26 00:03:55 i can't get the DPM right Jun 26 00:04:01 *headdesk* Jun 26 00:04:04 * RST38h yawns, wonders what this conversation is about Jun 26 00:04:07 no idea, search in google for it Jun 26 00:04:18 RST38h, we jsut ended about cooking N900 in 250 C in oven Jun 26 00:04:23 wow Jun 26 00:04:26 and popcorning chips Jun 26 00:04:27 final fantasy for wp7 :) Jun 26 00:04:30 win! Jun 26 00:04:33 wleh Jun 26 00:04:38 hate thos mangas Jun 26 00:04:43 * nox- not a gamer but this reminds me of http://www.geekologie.com/image.php?path=/2010/02/25/piracy-full.jpg Jun 26 00:04:49 hey! show ff some respect! Jun 26 00:05:14 conflict again! Jun 26 00:05:16 damn :( Jun 26 00:05:53 hjahahahhaa Jun 26 00:06:00 nox-, brillant Jun 26 00:06:04 especially, that it's true Jun 26 00:06:10 dissasemble of matrix dvd :P Jun 26 00:06:17 it really looked this way IIRC Jun 26 00:06:22 i think I found a good fix Jun 26 00:06:28 at least it works as per 17/08/2011 Jun 26 00:06:29 Rid, throwin it out of window? Jun 26 00:06:38 since the game was in 2008 or so, there should be no issue Jun 26 00:06:43 No, it involves throwing out the desk Jun 26 00:06:44 not window Jun 26 00:06:48 I'll try it tomorrow. See you all Jun 26 01:10:07 ...mass relocation of resources necessitating the purchase of antique railroad tracks... Jun 26 01:20:33 DAFUQ!? Homeworld on N900! Jun 26 01:20:48 Never though it's possible, really Jun 26 01:20:57 absolutely awesome, heaven for gamers **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 26 02:59:58 2012