**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 01 02:59:59 2012 Jul 01 03:00:18 I think the process is different Jul 01 03:00:19 maybe Jul 01 03:01:07 blah i have to go see about getting the stuff for this Jul 01 03:02:05 http://us.shuttle.com/scgforum/tm.aspx?m=3212 Jul 01 03:02:19 that's the same exact problem mine had ;) Jul 01 03:04:05 the 1800uF/6.3v ones are bulging heh Jul 01 03:06:53 cobalt-60 found on petco dog bowls Jul 01 03:06:58 wtf are these chinese doing?? lol! Jul 01 03:11:11 http://www.filmcapacitors.com/SeriesMF1206 Jul 01 03:11:20 i'm guessing that place won't sell me 6 caps huh? :) Jul 01 03:11:52 ShadowJK: what is a place to get good high quality caps? Jul 01 03:12:04 bonus points if you can find me caps made in the US :) Jul 01 03:14:31 I don't think there are any Jul 01 03:14:48 (any US production of capacitors) Jul 01 03:16:14 But like, uh, rubycon and Nichicon? Jul 01 03:19:46 digikey mouser or whatever Jul 01 03:39:06 friend of mine is going to order me some when he orders parts for work Jul 01 03:39:32 so i can just wait on those... lol.. but yeah.. finding us made caps would be impossible Jul 01 03:39:41 he said some place in ohio makes them still Jul 01 03:39:50 all US caps are like... special order bulk orders only Jul 01 04:13:25 This isn't limited to just capacitors Jul 01 04:14:11 Just about anything is so much easier to get from asia than from the us Jul 01 04:16:01 Like, I know some things where a US company designed something to be manufactured in china, and actually has good enough control of the factory in china, the product gets shipped right away to usa, but it's easier and cheaper to have it shipped back to china and sold from china Jul 01 04:16:12 than to try do business with the us company Jul 01 04:16:14 heh Jul 01 04:17:24 except if you live in the us, that is Jul 01 05:07:44 ShadowJK: yeah that sucks Jul 01 05:07:47 that's most places now Jul 01 05:08:28 but every now and then you find some company that is actually in the united states Jul 01 05:08:31 lol Jul 01 05:12:48 DocScrutinizer, feel silly continuing this topic, but re IRc and referendum - you're wrong, as usual. While I agree that it would be idiotic idea - and I used it as comparision - actually, chan imperator is working closely with Council, so TMO could - following your twisted logic - make referendum to have Council ask X-Fade about removing You frokm chanop Jul 01 05:12:58 and X-fade would do that, per Council request Jul 01 05:13:26 again, it's just "mind experiment" don't worry, it was just about showing how You pivot rules to your liking, in my humble opinion, which you have, of course, right to not agree. Jul 01 05:14:10 If You think that referendum can be used to remove volunteers form volunteering, it can be used to make anything. It's kinda wrong, as AFAIk, referendum is something started by Council, to see if poeople support some dieas or not. Jul 01 05:14:40 after all, council doesn't do anything alone, cause it's not fuckin goverment, despite fact, that almsot everyone is trying to apply political filters. Jul 01 05:15:18 i.e. Council can say "we're doing this and that", but without other volunteers wanting to do that, Council can kiss own ass, if manage to. Jul 01 05:15:31 it's all about collaboration. Jul 01 05:16:39 due mtot his reason, applying copy& paste from real-world goverments and politics is stupid. Not to mention, that even in real life, You have election every 4-5 years, and goverment can't be forced to go away (in legal ways, not by guns ;) ) even if have only 1% of support Jul 01 05:17:25 fortunately, despite how You see it, maemo is also absed on meritocracy. Fact that we have election of *volunteers* doesn't mean it becomes political. Jul 01 05:18:02 anyway, whatever, I'm sure that You won't agree, and everyone have better things to do, so... :) Jul 01 05:35:35 the woman who plays targaryen in game of thrones is way hotter as a blonde Jul 01 05:56:30 Macer, You're talking about it for week already, have You feel into platonical love, or what? Jul 01 05:56:37 Better tell me how cooking N900 in oven went Jul 01 05:56:46 oh... damn. i totally forgot all about that heh Jul 01 05:56:55 I knew that. phew. Jul 01 05:57:06 Am about to flash my N900. Remind me again: I only use the -R flag on the second of the two operations (1. flashing firmware and 2. flashing eMMC) whichever is done last, right? THe page at http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Linux is unclear. Jul 01 05:58:09 seen alex Jul 01 05:58:12 Estel_: i was working on getting some caps for a mboard with bad caps Jul 01 05:58:13 heh Jul 01 05:58:23 6 of 8 of them are bulging Jul 01 05:58:56 kwtm2, You flash emmc first witohut reboot, then, rootfs Jul 01 05:59:04 if You feel masochistc, You may do other way around Jul 01 05:59:15 no gain, and every accidentla reboot kills Your integrity Jul 01 05:59:32 emmc first without r and disabling it after by removing battery + flashing rootfs with -R later is best way Jul 01 05:59:44 Macer, well, caps happen :) Jul 01 06:00:21 it's an older shuttle k45 Jul 01 06:00:29 they were notorious for it Jul 01 06:00:58 i bought another one like 3 weeks after the first one and it is still working like a champ... the first one must have gotten the fake black market caps Jul 01 06:01:39 or just bad luck :) Jul 01 06:01:39 my buddy is getting me some new ones from his job... they are pretty easy to replace Jul 01 06:02:07 lovely times before everything got made for robots only, eh? Jul 01 06:02:36 well... caps are rather large.. somewhat difficult to not make them easy to replace Jul 01 06:02:52 K45s were awesome tho Jul 01 06:02:58 when the caps didn't explode :-P Jul 01 06:03:08 Don't underrate invention of designers :P Jul 01 06:04:00 You will see, when we will start to have caps with balls soldering ;) Jul 01 06:04:11 just for the sake of it. Jul 01 06:32:59 thx Estel_ Jul 01 06:33:42 ok wait... Jul 01 06:33:53 is rootfs firmeware, then? Jul 01 06:34:28 s/firmeware/firmware/ Jul 01 06:34:29 kwtm2 meant: is rootfs firmware, then? Jul 01 06:35:08 is the -R flag for rebooting, then? Jul 01 06:39:27 once I failed to be able to flash firmware, causing problems that have plagued me to this day. That was the most recent time (although I had flashed it half a dozen times prior to that, some time before). Hope it works this time. Jul 01 06:45:04 kwtm2, yea Jul 01 06:45:11 emmC is just partition layout of eMMC Jul 01 06:45:16 Okay, failed again. Says "missing image". I wonder about a number of things that are unclear on the wiki. Jul 01 06:45:18 rootfs is... rootfs:p Jul 01 06:45:35 in fact, nothing is uncleare there, it seems that you're missinterpreting something. Lets try to work through it Jul 01 06:45:38 Estel_: I see that I have 2 files. (This is from when I flashed a long time ago) Jul 01 06:45:50 first of all - if You use flasher without any arguments, it will show you list of options and meanings Jul 01 06:45:53 My two files are called EMMC and FIRMWARE. So rootfs would be part of the firmware? Jul 01 06:46:01 yes. Jul 01 06:46:21 RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Jul 01 06:46:22 Also, the unclear part: after the flasher exits, is the N900 supposed to sit there unmoving? Jul 01 06:46:28 ^^^ vanilla eMMc. you don't need it, most of the times. Jul 01 06:46:40 wait, wait, first things first Jul 01 06:46:49 ok. Pls go ahead. Jul 01 06:46:50 RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Jul 01 06:46:57 ^^^ FIASCO image Jul 01 06:47:02 containing many trhings for rootfs Jul 01 06:47:04 things* Jul 01 06:47:09 aka combined Jul 01 06:47:40 now, You just do as per wiki - if You want to flash with eMMC image restoration, you feed it by that image... Jul 01 06:47:53 flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f Jul 01 06:48:00 first, big -F is about "file" Jul 01 06:48:03 it must be path to file Jul 01 06:48:14 it depends on system, etc, but it's either relativer or absolute path Jul 01 06:48:23 then, -f is "flash" Jul 01 06:48:42 or other way around, maybe I've messed upercase and lowercase f - in any case, od as it is in wiki :) Jul 01 06:48:55 The unclear part is some things that I wonder about as a noob, about which I would like reassurance. Maybe it's just that I need something from my perspective as someone who may possibly brick my n900. :) Jul 01 06:49:00 so, you flash eMMC, and then, when it reports that I've finished with success, You remove battery from N900 Jul 01 06:49:11 I see. Jul 01 06:49:17 so, you don't remove cable, etc, just battery Jul 01 06:49:29 … Jul 01 06:49:32 after that, You may remove cable if You feel it fancy, then You feed flasher with COMBINED Jul 01 06:49:46 Well, the wiki says "you MAY have to remove battery" but it doesn't say you should, and previously I didn't remove battery. So it's not so much that I don't understand the wiki as that there is conflicting info. Jul 01 06:49:48 if you don't remove the cable, removing the battery doesn't really do anything Jul 01 06:50:08 in my experience Jul 01 06:50:12 luke-jr, true, i just said to remove batteyr first. On second though, it doesn't matter Jul 01 06:50:23 kwtm2, it's because you may disable N90 0by other means than removing battery Jul 01 06:50:30 but it's said in wiki, that You must not allow it to reboot Jul 01 06:50:33 after eMMC flash Jul 01 06:50:39 anyway Jul 01 06:50:43 then Yo0u feed flasher with Jul 01 06:51:00 flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R Jul 01 06:51:09 just watch uper and lwoer case f, i may have mixed them Jul 01 06:51:13 againt, first one is file Jul 01 06:51:18 I see. So after eMMC flash I *must* disable N900 somehow, e.g. removing the battery... I cannot just continue automatically with flashing firmware. Jul 01 06:51:18 then, "flash" command Jul 01 06:51:21 and last is reboot Jul 01 06:51:31 You may ommit the -r command, and reboot Yourself, but it's more conveinent Jul 01 06:51:37 yes. Jul 01 06:51:42 Estel_: I do have the commands in a bash script that I wisely wrote when I first learned to flash. Jul 01 06:52:01 if N900 reboots between eMMC and COMBINED, your flashing gone fubar. Jul 01 06:52:10 Ok, another thing that is unclear is... how do I reboot? the power button doesn't do anything, and I don't know what's supposed to happen. Jul 01 06:52:10 nothing irrevertible - You just need to start from scratch Jul 01 06:52:31 when do You want to reboot? After Combined? Jul 01 06:52:44 Ok, I will redo the flashing, removing the battery in between. In answer to your last question, Jul 01 06:53:13 I plan to flash both eMMC and firmware, so I guess I'll do that in that order. But after firmware (last time) I tried to reboot but the device wouldn't respond. Jul 01 06:53:41 So finally I took out the battery for a moment, replaced it, and it said "missing image". So anyway, I will redo it the way you have told me. Jul 01 06:53:46 kwtm2, You may reboot using flasher - either provide -R at end of flashing command (combined only, not after eMMC0, or just do flasher-3.5 -R after flashing Jul 01 06:53:57 because it went fubar after eMMC flashing :) Jul 01 06:54:19 basically, you flash eMMC, without -R command to not allow it reboot - after flashing, You have quite unlimtied ammount of time to remove battery and unplug cable, no need to haste. Jul 01 06:54:21 Estel_: Right, I've put -R now but previously I did not put -R and I thought I could reboot manually, which the wiki leads me to believe, but I see that this is not true. Jul 01 06:54:39 then, You flash combined, via same way as before (plugging device while holding "U"), but this time you may add -R command at end Jul 01 06:54:42 Estel_: I did not reboot after eMMC, so I don't know why it went fubar. Jul 01 06:55:04 kwtm2, You *may* reboot manuall,y by issuing "flasher-3.5 -R" after flashing Jul 01 06:55:16 it';s just dividing it to two steps, unnecessary. More conveinent is to reboot after combined. Jul 01 06:55:19 Estel_: ?? Do I need to plug the device in again while holding U? That was not clear -- I thought I flashed the firmware immediately last time and it worked. Jul 01 06:55:36 theoretically, removing batteyr again, inserting it, and booting normally shgould work too, haven't checked Jul 01 06:55:42 Ah, I reboot manually by issuing "flasher-3.5 -R" from my laptop. That part is also unclear. Ok. Jul 01 06:55:45 You flashed eMMC Jul 01 06:55:59 after eMMc, you remove battery AND unplug cable, as luke mentioned Jul 01 06:56:06 so you need to somehow plug it again to flash combined ;) Jul 01 06:56:14 and, you need to bring it into flashing mode agasin Jul 01 06:56:17 so, holding "U" Jul 01 06:56:47 basically, to flash including eMMc, You do two separate flashing, separated by removing battery. To flash normally, you just flash combined. Jul 01 06:57:00 warning - if You have done custom partition layout, it will be gone after flashing eMMC vanilla. Jul 01 06:57:14 Ah. That part was completely unclear. There were 2 sections in the wiki, and they sounded independent, like written for people who only wanted to flash one or the other. It was not clear that the U part was still necessary and could not be skipped if I wanted to do both. Ok, I will put that in my script file. Jul 01 06:57:21 Otherwise in 2 years I will forget again. Jul 01 06:59:03 kwtm2, thats true, wiki was written by different people. Jul 01 06:59:07 You could also upgrade wiki Jul 01 06:59:18 making it better source of knowledge not only for You, for later, but for others too Jul 01 06:59:25 but please, do it only after successful flashing :) Jul 01 07:01:55 Estel_: Well, I successfully flashed about half a dozen times when I first got the device, two years ago, and wished I had updated the wiki then. :P Jul 01 07:02:28 so do it this timer, cause there is high chance that You will be using Yuor N900 after next 2 years too :) Jul 01 07:02:34 sorry for typos. Jul 01 07:04:56 Estel_: Yes, I probably will; seeing Nokia's sinking ship, I bought an extra N900 because I don't want to give up my investment in all the scripts I've written for the N900 (and I don't want to have to learn Android or Apple). Jul 01 07:05:15 That's partly why I dare to reflash my N900 now: I have an extra one in case something goes wrong. Jul 01 07:05:35 The previous times it was out of necessity. I learned firsthand about the ~/.profile bug. :P Jul 01 07:06:06 hehe. Jul 01 07:06:16 Yea, no really suitable devices on horizon Jul 01 07:06:16 eMMC flashed. So now I *must* not remove the USB cable when I remove the battery? Or I *may* remove the USB cable before I remove teh battery? Jul 01 07:06:36 you may either buy android that got 21432453543543543543543 MHZ and RAMJ, just to spy on you more effectively, but don't allow You to use that horsepower... Jul 01 07:06:42 on anything usable... Jul 01 07:06:58 or stick to Your good N900 that does circles around multi-core devices, in terms of real life usability :) Jul 01 07:07:06 I had such high hopes for The Samsung Linux Phone Secret Project. Jul 01 07:07:15 you may do it hoever you want Jul 01 07:07:23 But I need to knwo. Can I remove the cable before the battery? Ah, I can. Ok. Jul 01 07:07:24 just be sure to, at the end, have both batteyr and cable unplug Jul 01 07:09:10 Ohh!!! I see the firmware flashing now. It did not do that previously, but listed all the stuff it was going to flash, and then exited to prompt, so I thought it had flashed already. Someone should program the flasher to say "I did not flash"!!! I thought the list of stuff was shown as it was flashing, and it was done. Geez, no wonder. Jul 01 07:09:36 Now I will have to go flash CSSU. I want the power kernel that lets me do mobile hotspot. Jul 01 07:09:59 Oh, and it's even rebooting. Look at that. Jul 01 07:12:25 Holy cow, I must put in the wiki that it will flash does 5 dots for 67 seconds. I was worried it had gone into infinite loop like the other time with the ~/.profile bug. Jul 01 07:18:17 wait, the CSSU is just a package to be installed? It does not need flashing? Jul 01 07:26:22 seen anyone Jul 01 07:26:49 kwtm2, yes CSSU is meta packge which install all updated packages Jul 01 07:27:21 Ok, Pali. Question about the power kernel (boy the web page is very ambiguous). Jul 01 07:28:26 I'm reading wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power It says with the stable kernel you can change the frequency limits, the voltages and DSP frequencies online." Does that mean I *cannot* do the mobile hotspot (tethering)? Do I need the unstable kernel for that? Jul 01 07:28:58 It says of the unstable kernel "This kernel version contains additional experimental features and patches. " But it doesn't say which additional features. Jul 01 07:29:39 kwtm2, kernel-power is stable now Jul 01 07:29:40 v50 Jul 01 07:29:53 The page "http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/kernel-power-flasher/" lists features. Jul 01 07:30:16 last version (v50) which is in Extras (and also on that link) is stable Jul 01 07:30:19 Pali: Oh, so there is only one version of power kernel that I need to install, and it is both stable and contains the ability for hotspot? Jul 01 07:30:35 yes Jul 01 07:30:36 Also, it does not list hotspot but it lists NAT. Is NAT what is required for hotspot? Jul 01 07:30:50 yes Jul 01 07:30:54 ~wiki NAT Jul 01 07:30:55 Ok. Hmm, someone (probably me) should sort through that wiki and update it. Jul 01 07:30:58 At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAT (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Redirect|NAT||Nat (disambiguation)}} In computer networking, 'network address translation' ('NAT') is the process of modifying IP address information in IP packet headers while in transit across a traffic routing device. The simplest type of NAT provides a one-to-one translation of IP addresses. RFC 2663 refers to this type of NAT as 'basic NAT'. It is often also referred to as Jul 01 07:31:07 I know what NAT is. Jul 01 07:31:21 I did not know that that is what is required to run hotspot. I thought all Linux came with NAT. Jul 01 07:31:35 Anyway, now I know. Will install CSSU and power kernel. Jul 01 07:31:38 Thx. Jul 01 07:31:55 you can disable it when building linux kernel Jul 01 07:32:25 Pali: Right, but I never figured Nokia would actually disable it. it almost kills the point of having Linux. Well, I am glad I can reenable it. Jul 01 07:35:45 kwtm2, wiki says about long time for 5 dots Jul 01 07:35:58 i remember, that it's written somewhere, about long time of first run due to optification Jul 01 07:36:37 Estel_: Yes, but I think people would benefit from knowing a more absolute number. 15 seconds seems long to me (after all, the clock ticks at 600 million times a second, you'd think it would be done in 5 seconds). Jul 01 07:36:48 Pali, I remember now, thatone aprt of my tonight's dream was about forwarding info to You about osso-backup source codes being released Jul 01 07:36:52 I need vacation, I think Jul 01 07:37:10 kwtm2, there is no absolute number, it may be longer or shorter Jul 01 07:37:20 generally, it's just longer than usual Jul 01 07:44:11 Wow, does the N900 change its mac address after reflashing!? Jul 01 07:45:42 incredible! So the firmware must have something that generates a MAC address after it's reflashed. Jul 01 07:50:06 kwtm2, no. mac address is stored in CAL NAND (/dev/mtd1) Jul 01 07:50:34 and maemo system read it from nand at startup and send address to wifi chip Jul 01 07:50:45 well, my n900 just got a new MAC address. So maybe the nand is updated? Jul 01 07:51:15 kwtm2, it could be corrupted Jul 01 07:51:27 or some app removed/changed your mac address in nand Jul 01 07:52:06 can somebody forward maemo.org website bugs to X-Fade? Jul 01 07:52:25 bug 12581 Jul 01 07:52:27 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/12581 Not possible to browse history of Developer forum Jul 01 07:52:37 bug 12623 Jul 01 07:52:38 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/12623 Do not auto log out on maemo.org midgard Jul 01 07:52:46 bug 12633 Jul 01 07:52:47 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/12633 Maemo.org website via HTTPS not working for anonymous users Jul 01 07:52:55 Estel_ ^^^ Jul 01 07:53:01 Pali: It could be. I have a record here that my N900 MAC address changed on 2010-06-19, so it's happened before. Jul 01 07:53:28 2010? Jul 01 07:53:46 also *original* mac address is somewhere on n900 box Jul 01 07:57:05 Really? I don't know if I still have the original box. In any case ... it changed again. Jul 01 07:57:09 Not that I mind. Jul 01 10:29:40 Macer: (bulging caps) you MUST use low-ESR types for replacement, usually Jul 01 10:34:14 Estel_: yes, you're absolutely right about possibility of council asking x-fade (or - as group contact employer - Nokia in general) to change anything in IRC. I'm sure x-fade will follow _reasonable_ requests, to the degree his company policy allows (e.g. he mustn't give up control over channel, even if he maybe wasn't averse to do ;-D ) Jul 01 10:34:50 Estel_: still I don't feel I pivot rules Jul 01 10:36:05 Estel_: let's agree that we disagree sometimes about how to read any existing rules Jul 01 10:36:27 zeq: trying GTK build with HW acceleration enabled, it was a mistake (or better said ignorance :) ) by my side when I said the enabling GLES with GTK does not make any difference. There is about:config value that defaults ot"HW acc disabled", but I find it after i've tried GTK Jul 01 10:36:47 GTK build uses 10-20 less MB, I think that is the option we have to find a way to use Jul 01 10:37:07 freemangordon: Of real memory - PSS ? Jul 01 10:37:23 yep, RAM, according to conky Jul 01 10:37:38 That's misleading, it's probably using RSS, which has issues Jul 01 10:38:03 you don't care about - for example - the amount of RAM used for mapped libraries that are mapped by system processes Jul 01 10:38:14 SpeedEvil: well, Qt is not mapped ;) Jul 01 10:38:18 (libs) Jul 01 10:38:21 k Jul 01 10:38:24 while GTK is Jul 01 10:38:33 I just woke up, so I may be say ing crap. Jul 01 10:38:38 :) Jul 01 10:38:46 http://www.selenic.com/smem/ Jul 01 10:38:56 Works fine on n900 - the python bit, not the graph Jul 01 10:39:02 I found it useful. Jul 01 10:39:07 even with thumb, newer compiler, etc,etc, Qt is still HUGE Jul 01 10:39:14 Some of the trivil nokia resident stuff is _very_ lightweight Jul 01 10:39:18 trivial Jul 01 10:40:04 and if we find a way to get rid of it for fennec(which itself is a memory hungry animal), we will gain some speedup,whatever Jul 01 10:40:47 also i tried flash with fennec, it works, but it is SLOOOW. And I can bet it is because of Qt Jul 01 10:41:27 Flash is crap, and should die. But it's very useful :/ Jul 01 10:41:45 back in the days I was tring to make my own Qt/WebKit based browser, it was PITA to run flash without performance penalty because of Qt Jul 01 10:42:08 Not that I did not succeed, but it was PITA Jul 01 10:42:42 anyway, lets see how GTK will behave with GLES acceleration enabled Jul 01 10:44:24 Estel_: (( If You think that referendum can be used to remove volunteers form volunteering,...)) please reread my post - I *never* suggested _anything_ like that. Such a referendum would be outright silly, unless it was about massive (criminal) lapse of one particular council member, in which case I guess most democracies know the concept of removing immunity from politicians. In same context: I think applying rules known from good Jul 01 10:44:25 democratic constitutions / politics is the only thing we got for most "common sense" questions regarding council and maemo 'administration' at large Jul 01 10:44:29 SpeedEvil: in the meantime I agree with you re flash. But on the other hand if we have a working plugin on n900, why not use it? Jul 01 10:44:53 Totally agree. Jul 01 10:47:06 Estel_: the basic concept however is always same, no matter how silly the request: first you collect supporters for your idea; if you can find sufficient number of supporters it will get attention of the administrative entity which then decides (based on whatever rules) if they will start a referendum about that topic Jul 01 10:49:22 it's one of the most honourable duties of the administrative entity to make sure common sense applies to any such request and that no reasonable well supported request goes unheard Jul 01 10:50:51 changing rules of council elections is a reasonable request in my book, if that change cures a perceived flaw in the present rules Jul 01 10:55:11 so MfE is one hell of a beast on N900. m.google.com for server does not put any packet at all on outgoing pipe. it's like this thing is set to ignore m.google.com. otoh, its IP address works, but gets stuck because the certificate only mentions m.google.com Jul 01 10:55:41 Sicelo: do you have newer libcurl3 installed? Jul 01 10:56:16 i had older one yesterday. same thing. then i upgraded, same thing too Jul 01 10:56:46 no offence, which libcurl3 version you have now? Jul 01 10:57:34 it should be 7.25.0-1maemo7 Jul 01 10:57:39 7.25.0-1maemo7 Jul 01 10:57:39 Sicelo:^^^ Jul 01 10:57:42 ok Jul 01 10:57:45 yeha Jul 01 10:59:44 freemangordon: this is a bad one? Jul 01 11:00:03 it is good Jul 01 11:01:14 just interesting why MfE doesn't send anything at all. i would understand if it sends wrong or incompatible stuff. but here, nothing at all (according to wireshark) Jul 01 11:01:43 Sicelo: did you restart after installing libcurl3? Jul 01 11:01:55 any other url/ip does at least result in some sent packets, except m.google.com Jul 01 11:02:08 hmm, i don't remember. let me do it just in case Jul 01 11:02:14 :nod: Jul 01 11:04:24 moo folks, btw Jul 01 11:07:20 lulz, works after a reboot. thanks freemangordon :P Jul 01 11:07:36 :P Jul 01 11:10:52 i'm still puzzled why it exhibits this behavior Jul 01 11:12:16 DNS type AAAA records Jul 01 11:29:12 Sicelo: :o) Jul 01 11:30:27 * DocScrutinizer send Sicelo off for 6 moths windows training, to learn about "you changed position of mouse - please reboot to make the changes to pointer take effect" Jul 01 11:31:48 hmm,:P Jul 01 11:32:08 lulz. Jul 01 11:34:16 anyway, freemangordon I guess we *need* a mandatory system reboot in libcurl postinst Jul 01 11:35:50 maybe a tiny bit of overkill (since in RL a restart of all services using libcurl should probably suffice), but MEH Jul 01 11:36:09 i know i did reboot, but i suppose now that it was before this libcurl update. that said, i guess i should have known upgrading a lib would need a reboot Jul 01 11:36:20 DocScrutinizer: anyway, libcurl3 is not supposed to be distributed through extras-devel Jul 01 11:36:30 LOL right Jul 01 11:38:41 what's the name of the friggin service that waits til apt-worker and HAM and whatnot all have quit, then notifies user "now boot is pending! you can't dismiss this requester!" Jul 01 11:39:41 (assuming there has to be such process/script/tool already) Jul 01 11:42:57 DocScrutinizer, so in fact, we completely agree. Jul 01 11:43:06 You were describing process for "any" big change Jul 01 11:43:18 which, of course, fall for referendum Jul 01 11:43:24 falls under* Jul 01 11:44:00 in context of person asking question etc. it could be, hoever, interpret as Your suggestion, how he shoul.d proceed ikn *his* case Jul 01 11:44:32 i.e. someone not satisfied by CA results -> referendum about removing councilor(s). That was why I called it silly Jul 01 11:44:44 I think that You mean procedure as whole, generaly Jul 01 11:44:52 remove CA Jul 01 11:44:54 problem solved Jul 01 11:44:58 in which case, as said, we totaly agree Jul 01 11:45:07 jacekowski, ca is removed, it's ended :P Jul 01 11:45:47 DocScrutinizer, just keep in mind that I wasn't only one who took Your answer there as invitation to make silly trollstorm referendum - it seems that lma got same feeling, and, possibly, other readers Jul 01 11:45:58 just problem of misscomunication and context :) Jul 01 11:46:08 freemangordon, ping Jul 01 11:46:17 pong Jul 01 11:46:24 about cssu-thumb Jul 01 11:46:34 (if You have time now) Jul 01 11:46:39 what about it? Jul 01 11:47:00 what are plans for painless integration with current, erm, ecosystem (joking :P) of programs depending on KP? Jul 01 11:47:10 i.e. will kernel-cssu "provide" kp in future? Jul 01 11:47:34 I feel silly changing control files and repacking everything that want to see KP and have kernel-cssu instead Jul 01 11:47:49 ...from kernel-power-settings, to cleven and h-e-n Jul 01 11:47:58 so far there are 2 packages which don't like kernal-cssu - KPS and compat-wireless-power Jul 01 11:48:02 disclaimer - I'm not demanding or whinning, just curious Jul 01 11:48:05 h-e-n has no problem Jul 01 11:48:14 ough, so I did it without reason Jul 01 11:48:33 so it's rather packages in question problem, not kernel-cssu one? Jul 01 11:48:35 Pali, ping Jul 01 11:48:46 freemangordon, pong Jul 01 11:48:47 Estel_: yep Jul 01 11:49:01 Pali: will you push newer KPS? Jul 01 11:49:06 also, is there anything depending on cssu (normal, not thumb) that cries when thumb one is present? Jul 01 11:49:14 Pali, I've seen bugs about web, forwarded them Jul 01 11:49:21 none I am aware of Jul 01 11:49:35 Pali: maybe new KP too Jul 01 11:49:39 Estel_, ok Jul 01 11:49:51 Pali, yes, please, newer KPS would be greatly appreciated - as I presume, it will work with both KP and KCSSU with no problems Jul 01 11:49:55 with the fix for FMTX Jul 01 11:49:55 from now on Jul 01 11:50:06 wut fix for ftmx? Jul 01 11:50:16 freemangordon, there was problem with kernel-power-settings some shift problem when user has old config file Jul 01 11:50:25 Pali: I know Jul 01 11:50:32 do you have log? Jul 01 11:50:41 I'd like to fix this too Jul 01 11:51:03 Estel_, echo 1 > lock for fmtx not worked Jul 01 11:51:03 Pali: no Jul 01 11:51:12 I see Jul 01 11:51:19 but printf 1 > lock worked (e.g omit \n) Jul 01 11:51:24 erm, what this echo was supposed to do? Jul 01 11:51:33 lock or unlock fmtx Jul 01 11:51:36 (actually it causes sh to use 100% CPU) Jul 01 11:51:40 ouh Jul 01 11:51:48 understood Jul 01 11:51:56 kernel-cssu also contain fix? Jul 01 11:52:01 no :) Jul 01 11:52:04 freemangordon, it seems that linux-backports-modules-power depends on KP too Jul 01 11:52:13 Hurrian: yep Jul 01 11:52:22 and guess who is the maintainer :D:D:D Jul 01 11:52:42 ~span freemangordon Jul 01 11:52:45 ~spank freemangordon Jul 01 11:52:45 * infobot bends freemangordon over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on freemangordon's pasty white buttocks. Jul 01 11:52:51 it should probably be inlined into the kernel now Jul 01 11:53:18 freemangordon, seriously though, to this day I wonder, what is use for those bluetooth modules? Jul 01 11:53:22 compat one? Jul 01 11:53:29 what use is* Jul 01 11:53:36 whelp, ran out of time this weekend, but come next weekend, I'll try winging it and simply replacing the driver trees and rebuilding Jul 01 11:53:43 Hurrian: a better solution is Provides: kernel-feature-wireless-compat-VNN Jul 01 11:53:51 Pali: ^^^ Jul 01 11:53:51 agree. Jul 01 11:53:55 what do you think Jul 01 11:54:19 freemangordon, agreed Jul 01 11:54:20 Estel_: (problem of context) quite likely. I strictly answered on this one post of zogg - not even reading the prev thread Jul 01 11:54:56 Estel_: NFC what these BT modules do, better as whoever was the author of wireless-compat drivers Jul 01 11:55:02 i've just packaged it Jul 01 11:55:04 DocScrutinizer, this answers it. Of course it's not Your fault, but You may consider (or not) some clarification, as, per what I know, 100% of readers took it as support for zog's idea Jul 01 11:55:08 also, imo kp-based kernels should provide kernel-feature-poweruser or something to indicate presence of augmentations Jul 01 11:55:30 freemangordon, aye. So we're not using them anywhere? I wonder if anyone tried loading them Jul 01 11:55:37 and live to tell tale about effects Jul 01 11:55:51 Estel_: NFC. You're free to try them :P Jul 01 11:56:05 freemangordon: I'll be about later this afternoon. I agree, we need to go with whatever works best qt vs gtk, and memory consumption is a big one! Jul 01 11:56:24 GTK! GTK! just for the sake of it :P Jul 01 11:56:46 zeq: yep, unfortunaltely GTK build spits "Attempting load of libEGL.so Jul 01 11:56:46 Failed to create EGL config!" Jul 01 11:56:57 Hurrian, see u-boot thread for initrd Jul 01 11:57:00 does it fail to find libEGL.so? Jul 01 11:57:12 it fails to create EGL config Jul 01 11:57:43 freemangordon, where to add Provides? Jul 01 11:57:51 DocScrutinizer, stupid question mode on - considering N900 board layout, are there any chances for hassle-free inclusion of active cooling, as prrof-of-concept? Or due to sandwitched chips, it would be placebo? Jul 01 11:57:53 * freemangordon reboots the device in an attempt to make that work Jul 01 11:58:07 to package linux-backports-modules-power? Jul 01 11:58:08 Pali: in KP Jul 01 11:58:13 freemangordon: similar to the situation with qt with egl enabled? Jul 01 11:58:20 zeq: no Jul 01 11:58:27 zeq: use one, and only one Jul 01 11:58:29 Qt port works Jul 01 11:58:32 Estel_: Cooling is largely pointless Jul 01 11:58:38 SpeedEvil, hm? Jul 01 11:58:48 Estel_: Issues with overclocking are not due to temperature. Jul 01 11:58:53 of course Jul 01 11:58:58 Pali: right now compat-wireless-power depend on KP ==== v50 Jul 01 11:59:07 == Jul 01 11:59:09 I'm not telling, that it will create devices with 1.7 GHZ Jul 01 11:59:14 freemangordon: we'll need to look into where all the memory is going Jul 01 11:59:20 Just woke up. Sorry, there is now a kernel-cssu which is not kernel-power? If I want mobile hotspot, do I need kernel-power or is kernel-CSSU enough? I dont' need to overclocking; I just want mobile tethering for my portable wifi devices like the non-cellphone-enabled iPad we have. Jul 01 11:59:27 SpeedEvil, I'm thinking about it as attempt for counter-electromigration Jul 01 11:59:33 kwtm2, kernel-cssu is kernel-power Jul 01 11:59:34 prolonging live of device Jul 01 11:59:36 zeq: it is Qt by itself Jul 01 11:59:37 just... rebranded Jul 01 11:59:46 and, generally, cooler cpus works better :P Jul 01 11:59:53 Estel_: (cooling) terribly complicated and of rather questionable benefit Jul 01 12:00:15