**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 07 02:59:58 2012
Jul 07 03:26:54 <DocScrutinizer05> recaller indeed could use a major update
Jul 07 07:55:42 <jean_brat> hiHi these keys [Shft Fn   CTRL      Rght Down T] in my n900 keyboard is not workin.. i cleaned my domesheet with petrol and tryied to put it back in.. and cleaned the contacts as well..but still cant figureout the issue.. ironicaly i cant find a new domesheet on ebay or anyother website. i have to fix the existing one.
Jul 07 07:55:42 <jean_brat> is there any Detailed key matrix picture with respect to Domesheet so that i can figureout which part of my domesheet is broken and manage to fix it?
Jul 07 07:57:00 <psycho_oreos> could it be a software issue and not a hardware issue?
Jul 07 08:04:18 <jean_brat> is that possible?
Jul 07 08:06:35 <jean_brat> some row is discontinued or now been driven high from the domesheet.. but don know where that row make contact with the main supply line on the top of the board
Jul 07 08:06:48 <jean_brat> *not been driven
Jul 07 08:08:11 <psycho_oreos> I'm not sure how its electronically wired to be honest.. I'd study the schematics myself
Jul 07 08:12:54 <jean_brat> guess i am out of luck
Jul 07 08:16:19 <psycho_oreos> I wouldn't really rule out that you're out of luck.. you could just be overlooking things if you're lucky
Jul 07 08:19:01 <jean_brat> what could possibly be wrong. i cleaned up the circles on the board with extreme precision and also the innner side of the domepad.. 
Jul 07 08:19:07 <jean_brat> don know what i am missing here
Jul 07 08:20:46 <psycho_oreos> have you tried reflashing? I mean obviously backing up and then reflash
Jul 07 08:22:32 <jean_brat> yes..there is nothing in my phone now
Jul 07 08:23:03 <jean_brat> domesheet is pretty fucked up  now
Jul 07 08:23:21 <jean_brat> after removing it several times
Jul 07 08:24:08 <psycho_oreos> hmm
Jul 07 08:27:00 <psycho_oreos> I'd probably stick around till DocScrutinizer is around, he'd probably know how to solve this.. or maybe some people on tmo
Jul 07 08:29:09 <japh> I'm fed up with harmattan and its ui now. Would flashing my n950 with the maemo5 n900 images cause obvious issues?
Jul 07 08:32:51 <jean_brat> thanks psycho_oreos 
Jul 07 08:33:15 <psycho_oreos> japh, most definitely yes
Jul 07 08:33:27 <japh> :(
Jul 07 08:33:30 <psycho_oreos> japh, not that flashing to some ancient firmware is supported for starters
Jul 07 08:33:44 <psycho_oreos> N900
Jul 07 08:33:56 <japh> I hate the harmattan ui
Jul 07 08:34:03 <psycho_oreos> N900's CPU doesn't have hardfp whereas N950/n9 has hardfp for starters as well
Jul 07 08:34:29 <psycho_oreos> the UI can probably be customised... though you might have to wait for a long while (if ever) :)
Jul 07 08:35:22 <_freemangordon> zeq: pong
Jul 07 08:35:38 <psycho_oreos> jean_brat, I'm also curious to ask, how did you manage to get to the stage where the dome are stuffed?
Jul 07 08:35:48 <psycho_oreos> its not because of excessive wear and tear I hope is it?
Jul 07 08:36:01 <japh> psycho_oreos, http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/09/forum-view-single-post-cordia-maemo5-ui-top-meego-core-meego
Jul 07 08:36:06 <japh> but, no :(
Jul 07 08:37:36 <psycho_oreos> japh, I'm afraid that's not for harmattan :) harmattan still uses deb package management
Jul 07 08:38:06 <japh> alien(?)
Jul 07 08:38:11 <japh> oh well. not sure what to do
Jul 07 08:38:11 <psycho_oreos> and yeah cordia was the thing to bridge that missing link.. though cordia now seems to be on their own specific hardware rather than going through the same area as nokia/harmattan
Jul 07 08:38:19 <psycho_oreos> japh, I wouldn't recommend that
Jul 07 08:38:30 <psycho_oreos> maybe source a N900? :)
Jul 07 08:39:08 <japh> I have n900s but I would really like to have something that I can use on the n950 hw since it's so  much better
Jul 07 08:39:31 <psycho_oreos> harmattan in nokia's sense is more of what they technically called it `meego instance'.. which isn't real meego for instance
Jul 07 08:39:59 <psycho_oreos> heh I'm afraid you might end up being on your own.. though you may (and only may) find like-minded users in #harmattan however
Jul 07 08:46:55 <jean_brat> i had a perfectly working n900, i flashed the latest firmware 1 day with the help of DocScrutinizer after that my phone never booted
Jul 07 08:47:30 <jean_brat> i gave it to Nokia Service centre. explaining them the issue.. and they almost took 2 months and returned my phone
Jul 07 08:47:59 <jean_brat> everything worked.. except the keypad.
Jul 07 08:48:00 <psycho_oreos> uh oh..
Jul 07 08:48:00 <psycho_oreos> that ^ was where the problem
Jul 07 08:48:34 <jean_brat> don know what they did with that..
Jul 07 08:48:42 <japh> but I have no issues with the latest firmwares on the n900s
Jul 07 08:48:51 <japh> I wanted to use maemo5 on my n950
Jul 07 08:48:58 <freemangordon> psycho_oreos: N9 and N900 have one and the same CPU ;)
Jul 07 08:49:16 <jean_brat> hang on.. is it a known firmware issue?
Jul 07 08:49:28 <psycho_oreos> when did you hand your N900 in to their care centre?
Jul 07 08:49:49 <jean_brat> its almost 3 months back
Jul 07 08:52:29 <Lava_Croft> jean_brat: they will replace it
Jul 07 08:52:38 <japh> with a samsung
Jul 07 08:52:39 <Lava_Croft> unless you presure them
Jul 07 08:52:41 * japh giggles
Jul 07 08:52:46 <Lava_Croft> lumia probably
Jul 07 08:52:54 <Lava_Croft> they tried N8 on me
Jul 07 08:52:58 <Lava_Croft> they failed
Jul 07 08:53:14 <Lava_Croft> i have to bring an N9 in on monday
Jul 07 08:53:26 <Lava_Croft> they better not replace it:P
Jul 07 08:54:29 <jean_brat> i still think i can fix it if i get to know the layout of the keypad
Jul 07 08:55:44 <psycho_oreos> jean_brat, I really doubt its a firmware issue.. if you reflashed it and those set of keys still don't work then it's most likely a hardware issue
Jul 07 08:55:54 <zeq> freemangordon: I can't stay, busy today, but did you read what I wrote when I got home yesterday? ^
Jul 07 08:55:59 <jean_brat> any ways.. bfn.. will be back later when DocScrutinizer is around
Jul 07 08:56:12 <psycho_oreos> freemangordon, I beg to differ :) same brand and maybe family yes.. but different clock rate and maybe different cpu flags
Jul 07 08:56:44 <jean_brat> do they still make spares..? of those domesheets? any ways i can get a spare?
Jul 07 08:56:48 <jean_brat> or buy a spare
Jul 07 08:57:39 <psycho_oreos> I don't know about domesheets but I have bought keymat from China awhile back.. though you might be able to find spares (though most likely clones) of the N900 hardware
Jul 07 08:58:19 <jean_brat> :P that will do.. hope they have some clone domesheets
Jul 07 08:58:20 <psycho_oreos> I know that nokia stopped producing N900 ages ago.. lots of owners tried getting their N900 fixed but they instead get replaced with some other non-linux based crap
Jul 07 08:58:28 <jean_brat> got a link ? :)
Jul 07 08:58:33 <psycho_oreos> nope... fleabay
Jul 07 08:58:58 <Lava_Croft> nokia cant replace N900 yet
Jul 07 08:59:12 <psycho_oreos> s/cant/won\'t/
Jul 07 08:59:18 <Lava_Croft> as long as you are in eu, you have 2y warranty
Jul 07 08:59:32 <Lava_Croft> you can happily go to court, as i threatened them
Jul 07 08:59:41 <doc|home> no, they actually can't. They have no OS and they're too incompetent to do it
Jul 07 08:59:49 <jean_brat> hmm.. unfortunately i am not :(
Jul 07 08:59:54 <Lava_Croft> they can, they got me two back
Jul 07 09:00:15 <doc|home> I have an n900 I'm not using
Jul 07 09:00:41 <Lava_Croft> i have on break software on and one for daily use
Jul 07 09:00:44 <doc|home> where are you? I'd consider selling it
Jul 07 09:00:50 <Lava_Croft> one to break*
Jul 07 09:01:13 <Lava_Croft> jean_brat: look up warranty laws in your country
Jul 07 09:01:17 <jean_brat> psycho_oreos, where did you find the chinese site selling parts
Jul 07 09:01:17 <jean_brat> ?
Jul 07 09:01:32 <japh> doc|home, I'll buy it
Jul 07 09:01:34 <Lava_Croft> jean_brat: where are you located
Jul 07 09:01:43 <jean_brat> i am in india fella
Jul 07 09:01:46 <Lava_Croft> aw
Jul 07 09:01:56 <Lava_Croft> idk jackshit about laws there
Jul 07 09:02:07 <doc|home> japh: ping me later in the weekend
Jul 07 09:02:14 <doc|home> it's 2am here, I need sleep :)
Jul 07 09:02:30 <japh> alright
Jul 07 09:02:32 <psycho_oreos> jean_brat, ebay (if you didn't get that fleabay comment). Again I stress I do not know if they sell dome sheets I do know they sold clone N900 (awhile back.. and no.. not genuine N900 nor is it even running maemo) and parts for that cloned (and faked..) N900
Jul 07 09:02:36 <jean_brat> its ok.. i am not considering suing nokia.. they are already in enough toruble 
Jul 07 09:02:36 <japh> I'll try to remember your nick
Jul 07 09:03:02 <psycho_oreos> jean_brat, they need more trouble imo :)
Jul 07 09:03:23 <psycho_oreos> for loyally screwing their own loyal maemo owner base
Jul 07 09:03:53 <Lava_Croft> yes burning nokia will certainly help
Jul 07 09:03:55 <Lava_Croft> right?
Jul 07 09:04:03 <psycho_oreos> s/burning/obliterating/
Jul 07 09:04:16 <Lava_Croft> must be puberty taking over
Jul 07 09:04:36 <jean_brat> it has to happen eventually..but i never expected 2 years ago android will grow so fast
Jul 07 09:04:57 <jacekowski> maemo is dead
Jul 07 09:05:04 <Lava_Croft> all i ever care about is gnu userland on my mobile
Jul 07 09:05:10 <psycho_oreos> manufacturer-wise jacekowski 
Jul 07 09:05:11 <Lava_Croft> screw the rest of the politics
Jul 07 09:05:50 <psycho_oreos> community-wise.. maemo is now more or less similar to openmoko
Jul 07 09:06:15 <jean_brat> TI is all time down.. what you expect from nokia to keep up the competition ?
Jul 07 09:06:45 <psycho_oreos> jean_brat, they teamed up with microsoft.. does that explain anything? :)
Jul 07 09:07:35 <jean_brat> yes.. MS pays 1 billian an year to use Windows on its phone for nokia
Jul 07 09:08:04 <jean_brat> for a company which is not making any revenue its a good decision 
Jul 07 09:08:11 <jean_brat> but MS will backstab soon
Jul 07 09:08:28 <jean_brat> its in their DNA ;P
Jul 07 09:08:39 * psycho_oreos is unsure of exactly how much MS actually paid/pays nokia but is sure that MS　was sure enough jealous that n9 sold like hotcakes when there wasn't even much of an advertisement for n9 compared to nokia's lumia range
Jul 07 09:08:57 <psycho_oreos> I can't wait for that.. it'll be the death of nokia.. probably
Jul 07 09:09:43 <Lava_Croft> its great how people think ms is worse than nokia
Jul 07 09:09:47 <Lava_Croft> or other companies
Jul 07 09:10:00 <psycho_oreos> hate comes in territories
Jul 07 09:10:11 <Lava_Croft> hate comes from children
Jul 07 09:10:29 <Lava_Croft> and people who have the time and space in their sad life to hate a goddamn company
Jul 07 09:10:35 <psycho_oreos> indeed but that would also imply that politicians are also children
Jul 07 09:10:38 <jean_brat> fellas.. believe it or not.. Nokia made amazing phones with TI platform which was mostly opensource
Jul 07 09:10:39 <psycho_oreos> not really
Jul 07 09:11:05 <Lava_Croft> n900 is awesome, but its a shit phone
Jul 07 09:11:15 <psycho_oreos> Lava_Croft, its also known as a `bad customer' which literally kills business when there's more than enough
Jul 07 09:11:15 <Lava_Croft> good computer tho
Jul 07 09:11:43 <Lava_Croft> politicians rarely hate things
Jul 07 09:11:44 <psycho_oreos> jean_brat, hintword: was
Jul 07 09:11:45 <jean_brat> and TI is struggling to keep up the competition
Jul 07 09:11:54 <psycho_oreos> Lava_Croft, they don't hate, they just incite war
Jul 07 09:12:16 <psycho_oreos> its called powertripping
Jul 07 09:12:31 <Lava_Croft> i think its the other way around
Jul 07 09:12:35 <psycho_oreos> no
Jul 07 09:12:44 <Lava_Croft> people always childiishly hate the big companies 
Jul 07 09:12:59 <Lava_Croft> wether its ibm, apple, activision, whatever
Jul 07 09:13:05 <jean_brat> FYI i worked for MS
Jul 07 09:13:05 <psycho_oreos> and people always will.. that doesn't necessarily mean that they're children
Jul 07 09:13:06 <jean_brat> lol
Jul 07 09:13:07 <Lava_Croft> nokia, ms, etc
Jul 07 09:13:11 <Lava_Croft> they are
Jul 07 09:13:21 <psycho_oreos> to you they are
Jul 07 09:13:31 <psycho_oreos> just like politicians
Jul 07 09:13:36 <Lava_Croft> to anyone with a bit of common sense too
Jul 07 09:13:53 <Lava_Croft> but common sense mixes really bad with open source communities
Jul 07 09:13:57 <psycho_oreos> more like to anyone who's been smoking god knows what
Jul 07 09:13:57 <Lava_Croft> fact of life
Jul 07 09:14:23 <jean_brat> don know about that.. but i respect nokia in replace BL5C voluntary with the issue was found
Jul 07 09:14:25 <psycho_oreos> yeah and inherently you've just mocked richard stallman.. good job
Jul 07 09:14:34 <Lava_Croft> stallman  ol
Jul 07 09:14:37 <zeq> Lava_Croft: you seem to have a rather simplistic view of human psychology (no offense intended.)
Jul 07 09:14:37 <Lava_Croft> lolololol
Jul 07 09:14:39 <NIN101> #trollemo
Jul 07 09:14:43 <psycho_oreos> jean_brat, what about the microUSB issue on N900?
Jul 07 09:14:54 <Lava_Croft> stallman is the worst advertisement for foss ever
Jul 07 09:14:58 <Lava_Croft> come on now
Jul 07 09:15:04 <jean_brat> ya.. its pathetic
Jul 07 09:15:19 <psycho_oreos> jean_brat, rather.. how nokia responded *initially* to that
Jul 07 09:16:58 <zeq> We're social animals, our forming of communities, necessitates that we see threats to that community as a person affront.  It incites strong emotional response, if it didn't we wouldn't be here discussing this.
Jul 07 09:17:27 <jean_brat> brb
Jul 07 09:17:28 * psycho_oreos would love to see when Lava_Croft gets done in by some bad business practise.. `oh lets not sue/hate them or else I'll be seen as a child!'
Jul 07 09:18:22 <psycho_oreos> zeq, lets not forget there's a huge base of such examples *points to apple fan base*
Jul 07 09:20:54 <Lava_Croft> companies are companies and will be companies
Jul 07 09:21:06 <psycho_oreos> and those antitrust laws existed worldwide are `childlish-motives'
Jul 07 09:21:16 <Lava_Croft> any amazement over being sodomized by a company is bordering stupidity
Jul 07 09:21:35 <Lava_Croft> be it ms, be it nokia
Jul 07 09:26:05 <japh> mm finaly it seems I can get somewhere with the flashing
Jul 07 09:26:16 <japh> while true; do modprobe -r cdc_phonet phonet; ./Linux_OCF_02-6_RM680-RM680-OEM1.bin;  sleep .1; done 
Jul 07 09:26:19 * japh grins
Jul 07 09:26:45 <psycho_oreos> or you could just temporarily blacklist those modules
Jul 07 09:27:08 <japh> blacklisting means I'll have to unblacklist them
Jul 07 09:27:11 <japh> effort :)
Jul 07 09:27:25 <psycho_oreos> or you could really hack up a simple script that'll do it
Jul 07 09:27:41 <psycho_oreos> maybe a flasher `wrapper' tool
Jul 07 09:42:58 <user> hi there!cant connect to msn with pecam.could somebody help me?
Jul 07 09:46:12 <psycho_oreos> is that the messages based plugin thingy? have you tried that other one?
Jul 07 09:46:35 <psycho_oreos> and you meant pecan? iirc there were two variations, one is hazel and the other is pecan
Jul 07 09:48:32 <user> it is a plugin for conversations
Jul 07 09:49:20 <psycho_oreos> ahhh yeah that too, well there's two different plugins for msn, one was pecan and the other was hazel
Jul 07 09:49:21 <user> i would like to connect to msn from contacts
Jul 07 09:49:45 <user> pecan doesnt work
Jul 07 09:49:46 <psycho_oreos> have you tried the other one? I recall one of them was based on an older method of connecting
Jul 07 09:50:12 <user> i going to try it
Jul 07 09:52:20 <user> thank you
Jul 07 09:53:27 <qwazix_900> japh: I also want maemo5 ui on the N950 and I'm working on it. If you have any experience with hildon-desktop your help is welcome
Jul 07 09:54:28 <qwazix_900> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84987
Jul 07 09:55:29 <qwazix_900> Later today I will try to document the situation as detailed as possible and reach out for help in any possible direction
Jul 07 10:21:37 <japh> qwazix_900, awesome!!
Jul 07 10:22:08 <japh> I assume qwazix on github is you, is the current situtation as far as code goes not public?
Jul 07 10:22:26 <Hurrian> anyone know villa's email address?
Jul 07 10:22:29 <Hurrian> *ville
Jul 07 10:24:16 <freemangordon> zeq: ok, i'll clone again
Jul 07 10:25:16 <Hurrian> freemangordon, have you got your device?
Jul 07 10:25:26 <freemangordon> Hurrian: no
Jul 07 10:25:34 <Hurrian> no word from DHL too?
Jul 07 10:25:46 <freemangordon> no
Jul 07 10:42:22 <qwazix_900> japh: qwazix on github is me but there is no code. I'm trying to make hildon desktop from maemo work on harmattan, as is.
Jul 07 10:42:42 <japh> okay
Jul 07 10:43:08 <qwazix_900> Any modifications will of course be published but till now I only have modified some makefiles and configure scripts
Jul 07 10:44:16 <qwazix_900> hildon is the version from cordia, because the guys there have made enough modifications to remove maemo specific dependencies
Jul 07 10:44:17 <japh> qwazix_900, is your fingers also incompatible with the horrible harmattan swipe ui? 
Jul 07 10:44:25 <japh> aha
Jul 07 10:45:40 <qwazix_900> japh: No, I like swipe ui. I'm doing it more to be able to run the abundance of quality apps in maemo extras
Jul 07 10:46:17 <qwazix_900> also N950's awesome kb is being wasted with the slab-oriented harmattan ui
Jul 07 10:46:50 <japh> hehe I think I'm the only one whose fingers doesn't work with it
Jul 07 10:46:54 <japh> yes, yes, indeed
Jul 07 10:48:02 <qwazix_900> If this project goes forward we'll have ourselves a real mamemo 6
Jul 07 10:48:15 <qwazix_900> s/mamemo/maemo
Jul 07 10:50:32 <qwazix_900> I also need someone to take on gtk-doc on harmattan as maemo gtk depends on it and I have been hacking ./configure scripts to get past it, which isn't the most elegant of solutions
Jul 07 10:52:14 <japh> pure docs? I'm sorry but I have a very limited experience with gui stuff in general
Jul 07 10:55:22 <qwazix_900> gtk-doc is a package which I assume handles documentation
Jul 07 10:55:55 <qwazix_900> normally you can specify a configure flag to build without it but maemo-gtk ignores it
Jul 07 10:56:06 <japh> not sure why that's a dependency when everything else documentation wise is instantly purged
Jul 07 10:56:32 <qwazix_900> I tried to build gtk-doc on harmattan but entered into a dependency labyrinth
Jul 07 10:56:33 <jipiese> anybody know if you can switch from cssu-stable to testing?
Jul 07 10:57:19 <qwazix_900> it shouldn't be, and it isn't on upstream gtk. It's a specific maemo bug
Jul 07 10:57:44 <japh> qwazix_900, I'll read up on this scratchbox business and hopefully I can help investing next week
Jul 07 10:57:48 <qwazix_900> so we need either fix the bug or build gtk-doc 
Jul 07 10:58:29 <japh> mm reminds me of a bug I ran in to when having built gtk but having no icon files
Jul 07 10:58:40 <qwazix_900> japh: I'll be glad to have a helping hand :)
Jul 07 10:59:18 <qwazix_900> fortunately harmattan scratchbox is a breeze to install
Jul 07 11:00:03 <qwazix_900> unfortunately there are far less libs/apps on harmattan repos
Jul 07 11:00:23 <qwazix_900> even git is missing
Jul 07 11:00:58 <japh> I think I found it in some of the repos listed on the wiki
Jul 07 11:01:06 <japh> or maybe that was on my n900
Jul 07 11:01:12 <qwazix_900> I've been cloning using ubuntu git outside of scratchbox
Jul 07 11:01:37 <qwazix_900> maybe, didn't search community repos
Jul 07 11:03:13 <qwazix_900> it's there on the N900 though
Jul 07 11:17:41 <iluminator105> what do you guys suggest for long term support since the standard shipped one is pretty much obselete
Jul 07 11:19:55 <Sicelo> what is?
Jul 07 11:20:16 <iluminator105> the n900 shipped kernel/os
Jul 07 11:21:01 <iluminator105> i used the community edition but until it stopped upgrading
Jul 07 11:21:13 <SpeedEvil> iluminator105: I suggest you start a new company that is dedicated to offering 512M RAM upgrades for the n900, and producing a better software stack.
Jul 07 11:21:23 <ShadowJK> 1 gig
Jul 07 11:21:44 <SpeedEvil> I couldn't find info that the compatible 1G part had actually been made
Jul 07 11:22:08 <iluminator105> SpeedEvil, that is actually a brillant idea
Jul 07 11:22:17 <SpeedEvil> And it would have required hackiness, as it had no flash.
Jul 07 11:22:34 <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure teh n900 would actually boot from EMMC/SD with no onboard flash.
Jul 07 11:23:12 <iluminator105> is there like a long term support newer kernel
Jul 07 11:23:21 <SpeedEvil> No.
Jul 07 11:23:54 <iluminator105> i guess i could upgrade to meego but thats not the best option
Jul 07 11:24:01 <NIN101> for maemo 5 we need to live with 2.6.28.* 
Jul 07 11:24:23 <iluminator105> is there like a centos for n900
Jul 07 11:24:47 <Sicelo> there is an actively-developed Ubuntu
Jul 07 11:25:01 <NIN101> not that I am aware of, there other distris. Most of them fail when it comes to phone functions. 
Jul 07 11:27:52 <NIN101> active developed but wasting time with getting it to play together with u-boot instead of focusing on relevant things.
Jul 07 11:28:18 <iluminator105> is there like a commercial grade replacement for maemo
Jul 07 11:29:59 <qwazix_900> NIN101: there is no other way to play if you want to move on from the maemo kernel
Jul 07 11:30:26 <qwazix_900> and IIRC ubuntu now plays with 2.6.37 if not newer
Jul 07 11:30:39 <NIN101> you don't need u-boot for that
Jul 07 11:36:28 <qwazix_900> you do except if you want to flash that kernel permanently and lose maemo
Jul 07 11:36:45 <qwazix_900> multiboot is just not an option
Jul 07 11:36:55 <qwazix_900> it should be killed with fire
Jul 07 11:37:08 <NIN101> there is a way to load the kernel without flashing anything
Jul 07 11:37:25 <qwazix_900> using flasher from your pc.
Jul 07 11:37:36 <qwazix_900> not the most optimal solution
Jul 07 11:37:37 <NIN101> which should be sufficient. It of course isn't possible when you are in RL, but tell me you boot into ubuntu when you are out there in the real world...
Jul 07 11:38:04 <qwazix_900> i would happily do
Jul 07 11:38:41 <qwazix_900> I just didn't get around to install it again after the morons at nokia care reflashed my N900
Jul 07 11:39:55 <qwazix_900> as I was using e-d regularly
Jul 07 11:40:23 <qwazix_900> I just need 3G data but that ought to be working by now
Jul 07 11:42:16 <qwazix_900> wtf? battery low. I was >50% 1 hour ago
Jul 07 11:49:56 <kerio> jean_brat: on the maemo.org wiki there were some technical specs for the keyboard
Jul 07 12:02:32 <Estel_> wow, have You heard about Jolla project?
Jul 07 12:02:48 <Estel_> it's really exciting to hear that they will manufacture new devices with Mer.
Jul 07 12:03:12 <Estel_> see: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1233345#post1233345
Jul 07 12:03:18 <Estel_> I can't wait to see first device :)
Jul 07 12:30:13 <StyXman> I'me pretty sure you already readyhis, but anyways: http://thehandheldblog.com/2012/07/07/jolla-meego-ex-nokia/
Jul 07 12:31:30 <Lava_Croft> i dont want Mer
Jul 07 12:31:31 <Venemo_N9> yep
Jul 07 12:32:12 <GeneralAntilles> Well, they don't have the rights to Nokia's proprietary stuff.
Jul 07 12:32:32 <Venemo_N9> they might.
Jul 07 12:33:13 <GeneralAntilles> I'm just happy the idea of an open source mobile device isn't completely dead.
Jul 07 12:33:27 <Venemo_N9> :)
Jul 07 12:33:45 <GeneralAntilles> 'Cause, you know, Mer > *.
Jul 07 12:33:52 <kerio> what the hell
Jul 07 12:34:03 <kerio> wiki.merproject.org forcibly redirects you to the https version
Jul 07 12:34:08 <kerio> but the certificate is self-signed
Jul 07 12:34:14 <Stskeeps> it is
Jul 07 12:34:19 <kerio> yay for completely defeating the point
Jul 07 12:34:29 <Stskeeps> not really, some kind of ssl is better than not
Jul 07 12:34:35 <Stskeeps> we have not shelled out for a certificate as we keep a low budget
Jul 07 12:34:54 <kerio> Stskeeps: startssl.com
Jul 07 12:35:00 <kerio> free class 2 certs
Jul 07 12:36:34 <kerio> and it's a wiki
Jul 07 12:36:47 <kerio> you don't need encryption to read public web pages
Jul 07 12:37:02 <Stskeeps> that is true
Jul 07 12:37:04 * Stskeeps files a bug
Jul 07 12:37:35 <kerio> https is for encryption and verification - you guys don't need the first, and the second fails because it's a self-signed certificate
Jul 07 12:37:48 <kerio> mind you, CA certs have a load of problems
Jul 07 12:38:15 <Stskeeps> we do need the first though, we use a common login across them all
Jul 07 12:38:20 <kerio> but there isn't a good alternative, really
Jul 07 12:38:25 <Stskeeps> but for anonymous viewing.. that's trrue
Jul 07 12:38:35 <kerio> Stskeeps: yeah but i can't be sure someone isn't MITMing me
Jul 07 13:09:32 <lohn> can I ask an n900 question
Jul 07 13:09:35 <lohn> ?
Jul 07 13:09:44 <NIN101> sure
Jul 07 13:09:46 <qwazix_> go ahead
Jul 07 13:09:47 <lohn> okay
Jul 07 13:09:53 <lohn> so I deleted the kernel...
Jul 07 13:09:59 <lohn> I am a moron, so let get past that
Jul 07 13:10:21 <lohn> now, when I plug my phone it, it keeps trying to reboot, but never gets past the nokia screen
Jul 07 13:10:37 <lohn> trying to flash, computer doesn't recognize
Jul 07 13:10:45 <lohn> am I screwed?
Jul 07 13:10:53 <qwazix_> what do you mean deleted the kernel?
Jul 07 13:11:07 <qwazix_> kernel is flashed to nand
Jul 07 13:11:22 <qwazix_> I am not aware of a way to delete it unless you flash garbage over it
Jul 07 13:11:30 <lohn> as in removed linux kernel for power user from application manager
Jul 07 13:11:38 <lohn> via
Jul 07 13:11:47 <qwazix_> ah, ok let's see
Jul 07 13:12:26 <qwazix_> fact is that you're not missing a kernel, just some supporting packages, but your N900 should be recognized by pc
Jul 07 13:12:41 <lohn> maybe the problem was that I was on linux?
Jul 07 13:12:51 <Lava_Croft> that is usually causing LESS problems with flashing
Jul 07 13:13:09 <lohn> I did lsusb, and the device did not even show up
Jul 07 13:13:11 <qwazix_> did you issue the flasher command as root?
Jul 07 13:13:17 <lohn> yes
Jul 07 13:13:27 <qwazix_> ok let me think
Jul 07 13:13:42 <kerio> lohn: are you sure that your removal of the kernel is what caused the problem?
Jul 07 13:13:51 <kerio> because removing kernel-power-installer won't reflash the old kernel
Jul 07 13:13:51 <lohn> i guess not?
Jul 07 13:14:10 <kerio> in fact, there's no way to do so without internet, because the stock kernel isn't saved anywhere on the device
Jul 07 13:14:21 <qwazix_> btw I have flashed the N900 from linux many times that is definitely not the problem
Jul 07 13:14:22 <kerio> it has to download the stock kernel to flash it
Jul 07 13:14:32 <kerio> lohn: were you able to flash your n900 in the past?
Jul 07 13:14:35 <lohn> no
Jul 07 13:14:48 <lohn> I had tried, but was on 32 bit
Jul 07 13:14:49 <kerio> is your microusb port working?
Jul 07 13:15:03 <lohn> how would I know?
Jul 07 13:15:11 <kerio> did it charge, before?
Jul 07 13:15:12 <lohn> it had worked before..
Jul 07 13:15:13 <Lava_Croft> is your battery charged enough
Jul 07 13:15:24 <lohn> well it keeps turning on and off, won't even charge really
Jul 07 13:15:25 <Lava_Croft> does the N900 show the USB icon when you boot it with 'u' pressed
Jul 07 13:15:30 <lohn> for like 5 seconds
Jul 07 13:15:37 <Lava_Croft> n900 cant charge without being in maemo
Jul 07 13:15:38 <Lava_Croft> iirc
Jul 07 13:15:54 <qwazix_> Lava_Croft, correct
Jul 07 13:16:26 <Lava_Croft> i experienced that first hand
Jul 07 13:16:31 <Lava_Croft> <3 my DT-33 external charger
Jul 07 13:16:33 <Lava_Croft> and 4 batteries
Jul 07 13:16:35 <qwazix_> lohn, do you have any other recent nokia smartphone (recent as in ~4 years)
Jul 07 13:16:42 <lohn> no, unfortunately
Jul 07 13:16:45 <NIN101> well, there is emergency recharge, but afaik won't kick in if there is a reboot loop or something...
Jul 07 13:16:57 <Lava_Croft> best bet is getting DT-33
Jul 07 13:17:08 <Lava_Croft> its not that expensive, and it charges more than just the BL5J
Jul 07 13:17:15 <kerio> Lava_Croft: :O i want one
Jul 07 13:17:17 <Lava_Croft> but im not really sure that its problem
Jul 07 13:17:23 <Lava_Croft> its his*
Jul 07 13:17:24 <lohn> so the non recognize issue is related to power?
Jul 07 13:17:31 <kerio> lohn: no, but it's the same port
Jul 07 13:17:34 <qwazix_> or find a friend with a recent nokia smartphone and use it to charge your battery
Jul 07 13:17:35 <kerio> well
Jul 07 13:17:49 <kerio> if the battery is low enough, it won't boot correctly
Jul 07 13:17:56 <kerio> was the battery charged?
Jul 07 13:17:56 <qwazix_> 5800, X6 or N97 would be best (same battery)
Jul 07 13:18:10 <Lava_Croft> you can flash with a relatively low battery tho
Jul 07 13:18:26 <lohn> every once and a while, it will boot up with green text across the top of the nokia logo, saying "device malfunctioning, will shut down in 10s"
Jul 07 13:18:33 <lohn> not boot up, but start up
Jul 07 13:18:34 <Lava_Croft> lohn: you only have linux computers there?
Jul 07 13:18:37 <lohn> yeah
Jul 07 13:18:45 <qwazix_> but even with a slightly different model (E90, E52, N810) you will be able to contact the battery to the charging contacts good enough to charge it a bit
Jul 07 13:18:51 <NIN101> lohn: that's the first I ever hear baout something like that on the N900.
Jul 07 13:18:52 <kerio> qwazix_: NO
Jul 07 13:18:54 <kerio> just no
Jul 07 13:18:54 <Lava_Croft> it boots itself?
Jul 07 13:18:56 <Lava_Croft> or do you boot it
Jul 07 13:18:59 <Lava_Croft> the first sounds scary
Jul 07 13:19:05 <NIN101> the green "device malfunctioning"-message.
Jul 07 13:19:06 <qwazix_> kerio, why?
Jul 07 13:19:13 <kerio> qwazix_: repeat after me: "i won't fuck around with lithium batteries"
Jul 07 13:19:14 <Lava_Croft> NIN101: yes
Jul 07 13:19:20 <Lava_Croft> never saw it
Jul 07 13:19:23 <Lava_Croft> or read about it
Jul 07 13:19:31 <qwazix_> yesterday we saved a N900 by charging a battery in a E90
Jul 07 13:19:37 <Lava_Croft> :)
Jul 07 13:19:59 <lohn> how's this, how about I just send it to one of you guys
Jul 07 13:20:04 <lohn> if you get it figured out, great
Jul 07 13:20:11 <qwazix_> They have the same voltage. As long as you don't leave it to fully charge there should be no problem
Jul 07 13:20:13 <lohn> if not, then it doesn't really matter anyway
Jul 07 13:20:13 <lohn> haha
Jul 07 13:20:20 <Lava_Croft> :)
Jul 07 13:20:26 <qwazix_> it's like the dualscud hack
Jul 07 13:20:29 <lohn> I will pay in bitcoin :D
Jul 07 13:20:35 <qwazix_> bigger capacity, same voltage
Jul 07 13:20:39 <qwazix_> no problem
Jul 07 13:21:06 <Lava_Croft> lohn: can always try to get help on the forums
Jul 07 13:21:17 <Lava_Croft> post your problem there, see what happens:|
Jul 07 13:21:23 <lohn> ok
Jul 07 13:21:39 <lohn> unfortunately, it looks like maemo is dying
Jul 07 13:21:50 <Lava_Croft> from the nokia side, its been dead for a while
Jul 07 13:21:54 <Lava_Croft> but there's still users
Jul 07 13:22:07 <kerio> lohn: there's still an active community
Jul 07 13:22:08 <Lava_Croft> and as long as there are devices to run maemo on, there will be users that use it
Jul 07 13:22:45 <lohn> can you guys think of anything that might be potentially wrong?
Jul 07 13:22:58 <lohn> at what point, are you pretty much up the crick without a paddle?
Jul 07 13:23:31 <qwazix_> lohn, it's possibly a flat battery, but otherwise you could try a cold flash
Jul 07 13:23:31 <kerio> "We'll always have CSSU" - Rick Blaine (Humphrey Bogart)
Jul 07 13:23:34 <qwazix_> ~cold flash
Jul 07 13:23:38 <kerio> ~coldflash
Jul 07 13:23:39 <infobot> methinks coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing
Jul 07 13:24:49 <lohn> so, granted the battery is not dead, it should be recognized by the computer?
Jul 07 13:25:03 <kerio> lohn: what did you do with your n900?
Jul 07 13:25:10 <lohn> its laying around
Jul 07 13:25:18 <kerio> i mean before the troubles
Jul 07 13:25:24 <lohn> I was on FAP
Jul 07 13:25:27 <lohn> deleting crap
Jul 07 13:25:32 <kerio> oh boy
Jul 07 13:25:39 <lohn> including FAP
Jul 07 13:25:42 <lohn> I have no idea why
Jul 07 13:25:58 <lohn> maybe part of me wanted to see what would happen if I tottaly messed stuff up
Jul 07 13:26:22 <kerio> http://anongallery.org/img/4/1/i-have-no-idea-what-im-doing-dog.jpg ?
Jul 07 13:26:29 <lohn> yeah, about right
Jul 07 13:26:55 <kerio> well
Jul 07 13:26:55 <lohn> interestingly, the phone still worked after that everything was delted
Jul 07 13:27:00 <kerio> hahaha
Jul 07 13:27:07 <kerio> until you powered it off and back on?
Jul 07 13:27:11 <lohn> it was upon rebooting that the problems started
Jul 07 13:27:12 <lohn> yeah
Jul 07 13:27:26 <kerio> well, my official diagnosis is that u dun goof'd
Jul 07 13:27:36 <kerio> lohn: try coldflashing, maybe
Jul 07 13:27:50 <kerio> but make sure that normal flashing isn't working because of a problem in the n900, and not just your computer
Jul 07 13:27:51 <kerio> ~flashing
Jul 07 13:27:51 <infobot> methinks maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jul 07 13:27:51 <lohn> okay.. I guess first step is to charge the battery
Jul 07 13:27:54 <kerio> follow the guides
Jul 07 13:28:01 <Sicelo> aiui it's very seldom you need coldflashing
Jul 07 13:28:03 <kerio> lohn: that's always a good idea, but it might not be easy
Jul 07 13:28:16 <NIN101> as already that, this probably won't work, but:
Jul 07 13:28:17 <kerio> do you have access to a compatible phone/charger?
Jul 07 13:28:21 <NIN101> ~flatbatrecover
Jul 07 13:28:21 <infobot> Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover
Jul 07 13:28:50 <kerio> NIN101: hm, what needs to work for that?
Jul 07 13:28:53 <kerio> just NOLO?
Jul 07 13:29:44 <lohn> well, thanks for the help guys, I am going to try again
Jul 07 13:29:51 <lohn> until then, I have a nice 10 year old blackberry
Jul 07 13:30:16 <NIN101> I think this may not work in a reboot-loop maemo, but I don't know. 
Jul 07 13:31:47 <lohn> last question: is this legit? http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOKIA-DT-33-Original-Desktop-Charger-Adapter-Fr-BL-5C-BL-4CT-BL-5B-BL-4S-Battery-/280903820557?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item41672c250d
Jul 07 13:32:07 <lohn> doesn't look like it
Jul 07 13:32:34 <Lava_Croft> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOKIA-DT-33-Original-Desktop-Charger-Adapter-Fr-BL-5C-B
Jul 07 13:32:35 <Lava_Croft> er
Jul 07 13:32:52 <Lava_Croft> at least the design is legit
Jul 07 13:32:57 <Lava_Croft> and dt-33 isnt expensive at all
Jul 07 13:39:21 <zeq> freemangordon: ok cool.  It is working btw :)
Jul 07 13:56:09 <Lava_Croft> need someone who wants to toy around in QML
Jul 07 13:56:16 <Lava_Croft> need a spin-dial for my n900
Jul 07 13:56:23 <Lava_Croft> so i can enter numbers like on my old spin-dial phone!
Jul 07 14:01:23 <kerio> i just realized that "Battery" in the status menu is absolutely useless
Jul 07 14:01:27 <kerio> is there a way to make it more useful?
Jul 07 14:03:37 <qwazix_> kerio, advanced battery status plugin
Jul 07 14:03:41 <qwazix_> or something
Jul 07 14:04:22 <jonwil> hi
Jul 07 14:04:44 <qwazix_> jonwil, hi
Jul 07 14:05:04 <kerio> qwazix_: nope
Jul 07 14:05:19 <kerio> Advanced power
Jul 07 14:05:49 <Lava_Croft> freemangordon: i can once again confirm that kernel-power equals way less battery hours :<
Jul 07 14:05:56 <Lava_Croft> i tried thumb-cssu
Jul 07 14:06:12 <qwazix_> Lava_Croft, disagree
Jul 07 14:06:21 <Lava_Croft> qwazix_: i never knew you were watching my n900 
Jul 07 14:06:30 <Lava_Croft> and therefore can disagree with my observations
Jul 07 14:06:33 <Lava_Croft> but go ahead! :)
Jul 07 14:07:06 <qwazix_> no, I meant that I disagree that kernel-power equals less battery hours
Jul 07 14:07:25 <qwazix_> not "kernel-power equals less battery hours on Lava_Croft's N900"
Jul 07 14:07:30 <Lava_Croft> its a different reality over here, sadly
Jul 07 14:07:31 <qwazix_> :)
Jul 07 14:08:12 <Lava_Croft> i get around 20% to 30% less battery time, for some strange reason
Jul 07 14:08:14 <qwazix_> so it's probably something with your configuration
Jul 07 14:08:17 <Lava_Croft> i had it before with kernel-power
Jul 07 14:08:20 <Lava_Croft> my config is near default:)
Jul 07 14:08:32 <Lava_Croft> actually, it was default on the thumb device
Jul 07 14:08:34 <qwazix_> (or your hw revision?)
Jul 07 14:08:42 <Lava_Croft> and i already ran through quite some stuff with freemangordon before
Jul 07 14:08:52 <Lava_Croft> the hw revision could very well be the case, yes
Jul 07 14:09:06 <Lava_Croft> i have two n900s, from different factories
Jul 07 14:09:20 <qwazix_> I just rushed to disagree as I have a reflashed N900 with almost no apps (X-chat and cradio)
Jul 07 14:09:24 <Lava_Croft> its not in any way the usual "KP SUX OMG" rant
Jul 07 14:09:47 <qwazix_> and installed thumb, and I didn't notice any significant battery drain
Jul 07 14:10:07 <qwazix_> the opposite really I feel that it lasts a bit longer
Jul 07 14:10:11 <Lava_Croft> i did, as i did before :<
Jul 07 14:10:22 <Lava_Croft> its not that i really mind it myself, but its always worth noting
Jul 07 14:10:27 <Lava_Croft> i can live with KP just fine
Jul 07 14:10:36 <Lava_Croft> er without*
Jul 07 14:10:40 <qwazix_> Lava_Croft, ofc
Jul 07 14:10:54 <Lava_Croft> its just annoying as hell
Jul 07 14:11:18 <Lava_Croft> i know damn well that it should actually not hurt battery life, or actually have a positive effect on it :<
Jul 07 14:16:08 <kerio> qwazix_: hmm, Advanced Power has a setting regarding which battery to show
Jul 07 14:16:14 <kerio> nokia bme, nokia bme alternative, dummy
Jul 07 14:16:17 <kerio> what's nokia bme alternative?
Jul 07 14:16:44 <qwazix_> kerio, Don't know, do you have kernel-power?
Jul 07 14:16:48 <kerio> i have
Jul 07 14:17:00 <qwazix_> I remember there was a setting to use bq_27x00
Jul 07 14:17:07 <qwazix_> which was a bit more accurate
Jul 07 14:17:28 <kerio> sweet
Jul 07 14:17:33 <qwazix_> but I don't remember bme alternative altogether, maybe something recent
Jul 07 14:17:47 <Lava_Croft> its been in there for a while, dont know what it is either
Jul 07 14:18:54 <Lava_Croft> i think the BME alternative is actually bq_27x00
Jul 07 14:21:14 <kerio> and wtf is dummy?
Jul 07 14:21:20 <kerio> bme alternative reports a slightly lower battery charge
Jul 07 14:21:36 <Lava_Croft> all i recall about bme alternative is that it was broken
Jul 07 14:21:43 <Lava_Croft> but thats from quite a while ago
Jul 07 14:21:50 <Lava_Croft> it probably has changed by now
Jul 07 14:23:54 <kerio> vaguely unrelated: still no opensource BME replacement?
Jul 07 14:24:23 <freemangordon> kerio: FOSS replacement not ready
Jul 07 14:24:28 <kerio> :(
Jul 07 14:25:06 <freemangordon> kerio: why sad? get the source and complete it :P
Jul 07 14:25:15 <kerio> sure, i'll get my ninja suit
Jul 07 14:25:23 <kerio> is the source code stored in finland? it's cold there
Jul 07 14:25:44 <freemangordon> kerio: in gitorious
Jul 07 14:25:54 <Gh0sty> probably on ice! :p
Jul 07 14:25:57 <kerio> freemangordon: i meant the official BME
Jul 07 14:28:10 <freemangordon> kerio: but you don't need it. And I was serious, just grab the source from https://gitorious.org/libbmeipc and https://gitorious.org/hald-addon-bme and add what is missing
Jul 07 14:29:59 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: the only way to have less battery life with KP or KCSSU is to have something broken on your side. And it is SW not HW that is broken 
Jul 07 14:30:26 <Lava_Croft> fresh device
Jul 07 14:30:44 <Lava_Croft> using a lot of streaming audio over 2g all day long
Jul 07 14:31:01 <Lava_Croft> we talked about this before, no idea where it comes from :|
Jul 07 14:31:04 <freemangordon> stock frequencies?
Jul 07 14:31:12 <Lava_Croft> yes, everything untouched
Jul 07 14:31:18 <freemangordon> SR?
Jul 07 14:31:27 <Lava_Croft> you got me to toy with SR before, i didnt toy with it this time around
Jul 07 14:31:27 <kerio> kcssu? :o
Jul 07 14:32:19 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: don't get that, but anyway, the way battery life is prolonged in KP is SR
Jul 07 14:32:30 <Lava_Croft> i know, :)
Jul 07 14:33:02 <Lava_Croft> i just wanted to report it again, since this is a 'new' way i tried KP
Jul 07 14:33:09 <Lava_Croft> with cssu-thumb
Jul 07 14:33:09 <freemangordon> kerio: kernel-cssu, the one that is used with thumb binaries
Jul 07 14:33:52 <Lava_Croft> you dont enable SR by default on cssu-thumb yet?
Jul 07 14:33:55 <Lava_Croft> or ever will?
Jul 07 14:33:57 <kerio> used with what? :o
Jul 07 14:34:25 <Lava_Croft> kerio: look on TMO for 'announce cssu-thumb' orso
Jul 07 14:34:26 <Lava_Croft> :)
Jul 07 14:34:44 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: no, I didn't want reports of thumb being broken ;)
Jul 07 14:34:56 <Lava_Croft> freemangordon: i figured
Jul 07 14:35:02 <Lava_Croft> but i would have reported it if it changed too, so meh
Jul 07 14:35:13 <freemangordon> but enabling SR will come in near future
Jul 07 14:35:16 <Lava_Croft> its not something im really angered about orso, but it still remains strange
Jul 07 14:35:26 <kerio> what's SR?
Jul 07 14:35:34 <freemangordon> SmartReflex
Jul 07 14:35:37 <kerio> and do i have to do anything, if i installed CSSU and kernel-power?
Jul 07 14:35:42 <Lava_Croft> freemangordon: ill just keep looking at it with every new release:)
Jul 07 14:35:46 <Lava_Croft> one day it might work!
Jul 07 14:35:54 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: which one?
Jul 07 14:35:58 <freemangordon> SmartReflex?
Jul 07 14:36:09 <kerio> oh no, it's a different cssu
Jul 07 14:36:09 <Lava_Croft> the overall battery thing in relation to KP
Jul 07 14:36:10 <kerio> ouch
Jul 07 14:36:17 <Lava_Croft> wether its with cssu-thumb or just KP
Jul 07 14:36:40 <Lava_Croft> i can do fine with KP and cssu-thumb is on my second n900
Jul 07 14:36:44 <Lava_Croft> so its not an actual problem for me
Jul 07 14:36:49 <Lava_Croft> goddamnit
Jul 07 14:36:51 <Lava_Croft> without kp*
Jul 07 14:37:35 <kerio> freemangordon: how does your -thumb repo work?
Jul 07 14:37:48 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: so, lemme check if I got that correct. your second device has worse battery life that your primary? primary is with stock kernel, while second is with KP. Correct?
Jul 07 14:37:49 <kerio> and do those programs work with the standard KP?
Jul 07 14:37:55 <Lava_Croft> freemangordon: no
Jul 07 14:38:00 <Lava_Croft> every device i tried KP on had worse battery life
Jul 07 14:38:11 <Lava_Croft> with or without SR, fresh or tailored to my tastes
Jul 07 14:38:15 <Lava_Croft> thats why we talked about it before:)
Jul 07 14:38:30 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: lets then find the common denominator (besides KP)
Jul 07 14:38:45 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: I man to that young I used to be :(
Jul 07 14:38:55 <Lava_Croft> what?
Jul 07 14:38:56 <freemangordon> *I am not that
Jul 07 14:39:00 <Lava_Croft> nor am i
Jul 07 14:39:13 <freemangordon> So I can't recall what we were talking
Jul 07 14:39:14 <Lava_Croft> but you get much more people whining about cssu than i do
Jul 07 14:39:18 <Lava_Croft> so its easy to remember for me
Jul 07 14:39:24 <Lava_Croft> or KP, or SR :)
Jul 07 14:39:35 <freemangordon> :)
Jul 07 14:39:37 <freemangordon> yeah
Jul 07 14:39:57 <Lava_Croft> you actually helped me locate a bunch of apps that used a lot of python etc
Jul 07 14:40:05 <Lava_Croft> so you did help me get some more usage out of my battery:)
Jul 07 14:40:09 <freemangordon> kerio: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84829
Jul 07 14:40:19 <kerio> freemangordon: yeah, i figured
Jul 07 14:40:29 <Lava_Croft> also the second device is currently running meego
Jul 07 14:40:48 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: hmm, but I was thinking we solved your issue.
Jul 07 14:41:11 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: how long your battery lasts?
Jul 07 14:41:48 <Lava_Croft> i havent done a 'scientific' test on it
Jul 07 14:41:55 <Lava_Croft> but generally i dont have to recharge before i go to bed
Jul 07 14:42:04 <Lava_Croft> and i get up at 4am and go to bed around 9pm
Jul 07 14:42:05 <kerio> freemangordon: will it overwrite my beautiful kernel-power? :c
Jul 07 14:42:19 <Lava_Croft> and stream audio over 2g several hours a day, besides browsing quite a bit with opera
Jul 07 14:42:19 <freemangordon> kerio: yes
Jul 07 14:42:28 <Lava_Croft> so it actually does quite nice already
Jul 07 14:43:27 <Lava_Croft> i can flash the second device with stock pr1.3.1 first, and have it play some music until the battery dies
Jul 07 14:43:42 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: I will appreciate that
Jul 07 14:43:46 <Lava_Croft> and then repeat the same test with cssu-thumb (with and without 'tweaks')
Jul 07 14:43:52 <freemangordon> ok
Jul 07 14:43:58 <Lava_Croft> i will not do it this weekend tho, since this is my vacation
Jul 07 14:44:02 <Lava_Croft> so it will be next weekend:)
Jul 07 14:44:07 <Lava_Croft> work starts again on monday:<
Jul 07 14:44:23 <Lava_Croft> and i have to mentally prepare for going to nokia care with my n9
Jul 07 14:44:45 <freemangordon> You have plenty of time, as I won;t have time to do anything for the next 10 days or so, I am going on a vacaion
Jul 07 14:44:54 <Lava_Croft> :)
Jul 07 14:45:11 <Lava_Croft> make sure you dont do any maemo related shit during your vacation
Jul 07 14:45:14 <Lava_Croft> at all
Jul 07 14:45:29 <freemangordon> but I will appreciate that test, so we can be sure there is something. Or not ;)
Jul 07 14:45:35 <Lava_Croft> yes
Jul 07 14:45:40 <Lava_Croft> i want it for myself too, i guess
Jul 07 14:45:41 <Lava_Croft> :)
Jul 07 14:45:51 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: be sure I won't :)
Jul 07 14:46:10 <Lava_Croft> good, that means you will be invigorated once you return
Jul 07 14:46:29 <freemangordon> Lava_Croft: I will remember to pester you once I am back :P
Jul 07 14:46:51 <Lava_Croft> good, since i am good at forgetting stuff that i have to do myself
Jul 07 14:46:57 <freemangordon> as if there is something broken in KP I wan't to know it
Jul 07 14:47:04 <Lava_Croft> yes, naturally
Jul 07 14:47:12 <Lava_Croft> i want to know if im being silly too
Jul 07 14:48:38 <freemangordon> yeah. BTW we found one bug in KP that could be sucking battery, it is related to script trying to echo 1 to fmtx lock. will be fixed in next KP/KCSSU
Jul 07 14:59:03 <kerio> freemangordon: how does the -thumb repo work? the packages have a higher version than the packages in community-testing?
Jul 07 14:59:21 <freemangordon> something lik ethat
Jul 07 15:01:24 <kerio> so what is it?
Jul 07 15:01:30 <kerio> higher priority?
Jul 07 15:02:51 <freemangordon> it appends -thumbN to package version, making it higher than tccu-test
Jul 07 15:02:56 <freemangordon> *cssu-test
Jul 07 15:04:27 <freemangordon> kerio: ^^^
Jul 07 15:05:02 <kerio> freemangordon: neat
Jul 07 15:05:37 <freemangordon> kerio: BTW kernel-cssu IS kernel-power with some additional stuff that workarounds silicon bugs
Jul 07 15:06:24 <freemangordon> but you may want to wait Pali to push new kernel-power-settings, which is compatible with both KP and KCSSU
Jul 07 15:07:35 <kerio> freemangordon: k
Jul 07 15:07:41 <kerio> well, it's not like i use kernel-power-settings
Jul 07 15:07:47 <kerio> isn't it only for overclocking?
Jul 07 15:12:09 <kerio> freemangordon: if thumb binaries are so good, why aren't they in cssu-testing?
Jul 07 15:12:15 <kerio> :C
Jul 07 15:12:22 <BCMM> what's the best way of sending keyboard input from the n900 to another machine (linux/X11)?
Jul 07 15:12:43 <BCMM> i mean, using the n900 as a wireless keyboard. I usually end up using VNC but it's not exactly optimal for the situation
Jul 07 15:13:24 <kerio> BCMM: well, why not?
Jul 07 15:13:31 <kerio> VNC has (or should have) a way to only send input
Jul 07 15:13:49 <BCMM> ah, i should look in to that
Jul 07 15:14:35 <BCMM> i was also wondering if there is a decent way of sending mouse input touchpad style
Jul 07 15:14:49 <BCMM> there are a few android/ios things that do something similar
Jul 07 15:15:05 <zeq> bluemaemo?
Jul 07 15:15:28 <Sicelo> symbian did that first :P
Jul 07 15:15:32 <NIN101> well, in theory it could be done sending some /dev/input/ business using netcat or something, if the ther machine is linux. 
Jul 07 15:15:45 <zeq> BlueMaemo does it over bluetooth
Jul 07 15:15:58 <BCMM> zeq: damn, that looks brilliant except for the bluetooth
Jul 07 15:16:21 <NIN101> but thanks to keyboard mapping etc. it won't be fun.
Jul 07 15:17:27 <BCMM> NIN101: wouldn't work nicely for mouse
Jul 07 15:17:35 <NIN101> indeed
Jul 07 15:18:05 <BCMM> i'm looking at the bluemaemo video and it's pretty much exactly what i was thinking of except for running over bluetooth
Jul 07 15:18:07 <kerio> hm, why is SR enabled by default? it used not to be the case
Jul 07 15:19:03 <BCMM> hmm, looks like there is discussion but no such thing
Jul 07 15:19:31 <BCMM> somebody on the forums points out what i was thinking, which is that you could probably abuse the synergy client to avoid having to write clients for various platforms
Jul 07 15:20:15 <kerio> freemangordon: will kernel-cssu eventually be merged in kernel-power?
Jul 07 15:20:21 <kerio> and/or viceversa?
Jul 07 16:22:54 <kerio> freemangordon: i read a bit about the thumb binaries
Jul 07 16:23:10 <kerio> if they're so good, why aren't they used already?
Jul 07 16:23:27 <kerio> or, at least, why isn't CSSU going to use them officially?
Jul 07 16:31:22 <vi_> any open media player experts here?
Jul 07 16:38:25 <kerio> vi_: i use it!
Jul 07 16:38:30 <kerio> that makes me an expert, right?
Jul 07 16:46:16 <pronto> kerio: depends, did you stay at a holiday in express last night?
Jul 07 16:47:07 <kerio> pronto: nope, just my bed :(
Jul 07 16:47:23 <pronto> thenno expert 
Jul 07 16:47:33 <kerio> it's a comfy bed though
Jul 07 16:47:44 <kerio> and i live with my parents, so i have lunch *and* dinner covered
Jul 07 16:47:47 <kerio> for free!
Jul 07 16:48:04 <Sc0rpius> now that's nice.
Jul 07 16:48:28 <udovdh> kerio, depending on your age this might be part of the new economic paradigm and not so good
Jul 07 16:48:29 <pronto> lol 
Jul 07 16:48:39 <kerio> udovdh: i'm 20
Jul 07 16:48:45 <udovdh> that's on the edge ;-)
Jul 07 16:49:04 <kerio> i'm still a student
Jul 07 16:49:08 <kerio> it counts for something, right?
Jul 07 16:49:19 <Sc0rpius> those paradigms suck, I should go back living with my mom :/
Jul 07 16:49:27 <Sc0rpius> and she'll be happy if I do that actually
Jul 07 16:49:27 <udovdh> yup, but prepare for moving out...
Jul 07 16:49:45 <Sicelo> and damn! does my network suck!
Jul 07 16:49:59 <Sicelo> eew, wrong window
Jul 07 16:50:20 <jabis> who has it in their right mind to move BACK  to their parents x)
Jul 07 16:50:26 <Sc0rpius> I would definitely
Jul 07 16:50:37 <Sc0rpius> I guess depends on the parents too
Jul 07 16:50:55 <jabis> I mean - for what purpose? x)
Jul 07 16:51:10 <Sc0rpius> people in their late 20s or their 30s actually love to be away from the parents
Jul 07 16:51:20 <Sc0rpius> in your 40s you actually start missing them a lot
Jul 07 16:51:31 <Sc0rpius> and in your 50s when you don't have them anymore, it REALLY sucks.
Jul 07 16:51:32 <Lava_Croft> its all depending on the situation:P
Jul 07 16:52:05 <jabis> I appreciate my parents - but you're here to live your own life
Jul 07 16:52:17 <Sc0rpius> anyway I go to lunch with my parents every tuesday and thursday :)
Jul 07 16:52:23 <Sc0rpius> at home
Jul 07 16:52:25 <vi_> Sc0rpius: you are a god guy.
Jul 07 16:52:30 <Sc0rpius> :)
Jul 07 16:52:37 <vi_> ^goof
Jul 07 16:52:39 <vi_> ^good
Jul 07 16:52:40 <Lava_Croft> my parents live about 300m away from me, i see them once a month orso
Jul 07 16:52:48 <jabis> that's a nice tradition :) I tend to see my mom at least every week too
Jul 07 16:52:53 <Sc0rpius> nice
Jul 07 16:53:04 <vi_> Lava_Croft: really?  BUT THEY ONLY LIVE  less than 1/3 of a KM from you!1
Jul 07 16:53:15 <Sc0rpius> yeah 300 meters is walking distance
Jul 07 16:53:16 <Lava_Croft> yes, same village
Jul 07 16:53:26 <jabis> range approx 50km
Jul 07 16:53:26 <Lava_Croft> near peeing distance
Jul 07 16:53:48 <vi_> now somone tell me why OMP will not open AAC files?
Jul 07 16:53:50 <Lava_Croft> theres no need for us to see each other that often :)
Jul 07 16:53:59 <jabis> my younger siblings still live with my mom - so I don't need to worry x)
Jul 07 16:54:03 <Lava_Croft> vi_: it opens aac streams
Jul 07 16:55:27 <Sc0rpius> that Jolla startup sounds nice
Jul 07 16:55:29 <kerio> vi_: i find that kinda hard to believe, most of my music is AAC
Jul 07 16:55:35 <Sc0rpius> but I wonder who will make the hardware
Jul 07 16:56:21 <kerio> vi_: yep, false
Jul 07 17:16:01 <DocScrutinizer05> Scorcerer: it seems jolla will do
Jul 07 17:18:57 <qwazix_> vi_: does regular media player play those files?
Jul 07 17:20:06 <NIN101> is OMP using tracker?
Jul 07 17:20:31 <Lava_Croft> yes
Jul 07 17:23:55 <vi_> kerio: yep, false?
Jul 07 17:24:37 <vi_> ?
Jul 07 17:24:49 <vi_> kerio: You have no idea what tF you are talking about.
Jul 07 17:25:02 <vi_> qwazix_: Yes, regular MP does play files.
Jul 07 17:25:07 <vi_> Allow me to explain.
Jul 07 17:25:35 <vi_> You click on an mp3 through file manager, it opens said mp3 file with OMP.
Jul 07 17:26:03 <vi_> You click on an AAC file (as recorded with recaller) and it will open OMP but the file will not play.
Jul 07 17:26:29 <vi_> it will show 0/0 files available.
Jul 07 17:26:39 <vi_> As if the playlist is not populated.
Jul 07 17:26:57 <vi_> If you rename the AAC file to an MP3 file, it will play just fine.
Jul 07 17:27:15 <vi_> So, how tf do you open AAC files with OMP?
Jul 07 17:28:42 <DocScrutinizer05> Sc0rpius: ^^^
Jul 07 17:43:57 <kerio> vi__: ooh, how do you select OMP as the default program to launch when you open a multimedia file?
Jul 07 17:46:52 <jean_brat> Hi DocScrutinizer 
Jul 07 17:47:41 <jean_brat> i posted this question 6 hours ago.. but you were not around.. and some one said you might be an expert to know this one
Jul 07 17:47:47 <jean_brat> Hi these keys [Shft Fn   CTRL      Rght Down T] in my n900 keyboard is not workin.. i cleaned my domesheet with petrol and tryied to put it back in.. and cleaned the contacts as well..but still cant figureout the issue.. ironicaly i cant find a new domesheet on ebay or anyother website. i have to fix the existing one.
Jul 07 17:47:47 <jean_brat> is there any Detailed key matrix picture with respect to Domesheet so that i can figureout which part of my domesheet is broken and manage to fix it?
Jul 07 17:51:37 <kerio> in general, how do i choose what's the "default application" for a certain file type?
Jul 07 17:54:38 <StyXman> can someone tell me where can I get marble's source package? I want to try a patch for it... I have my scratchbox setup and ready
Jul 07 17:58:00 <kerio> no, seriously, is there a way to change the file associations?
Jul 07 18:02:43 <StyXman> I got to http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/m/marble/, but no sources :(
Jul 07 18:03:42 <StyXman> also: should I update my SB setup to SSU?
Jul 07 18:06:24 <StyXman> aha: http://repository.maemo.org/
Jul 07 18:08:53 <Sicelo> hmm, so i'm late to the Jolla news. I wish them well. just a question.. i assume use of code they had worked on while they were Nokia employees will not necessarily be permitted, right?
Jul 07 18:10:03 <SpeedEvil> Generally not, unless it's GPL
Jul 07 18:10:55 <Sicelo> suggesting that they'll be sort of forced to start on a fresh slate, unless they ask for, and get, permission for reuse of code from Nokia
Jul 07 18:10:58 <Sicelo> :\
Jul 07 18:11:04 <SpeedEvil> yep
Jul 07 18:11:13 <Sicelo> eew
Jul 07 18:11:16 <SpeedEvil> Chances of - for example - maemo 5.1 are zero.
Jul 07 18:11:28 <Sicelo> jean_brat: you have the service manual?
Jul 07 18:11:51 <StyXman> SpeedEvil: not necesaarily, if the resulting binaries were not distibuted, the GPL doesn't give you permission to just take the sources
Jul 07 18:12:09 <kerio> SpeedEvil: how do i change the file associations?
Jul 07 18:12:14 <jean_brat> yes i have the PDF
Jul 07 18:12:26 <jean_brat> Sicelo,
Jul 07 18:12:35 <SpeedEvil> StyXman: yes, but if you have the sources, you can fork the sources.
Jul 07 18:12:51 <SpeedEvil> (assuming there were no other constraints on you )
Jul 07 18:13:10 <Sicelo> i was just asking jean_brat. i guess you need someone to scrutinize the document then :P
Jul 07 18:13:24 <SpeedEvil> kerio: No clue
Jul 07 18:13:39 <SpeedEvil> I assume not /etc/mimetypes :)
Jul 07 18:14:58 <Sicelo> so Jolla aims to build hardware, or use existing Harmattan hardware?
Jul 07 18:15:06 <SpeedEvil> build
Jul 07 18:15:13 <kerio> should i just remove mediaplayer then?
Jul 07 18:15:18 <jean_brat> Sicelo, its not much of a help. i wanted to know is.. inside the domesheet how the connections are?
Jul 07 18:15:47 <jean_brat> where the domesheet gets the supply from the main supply line to pull up these pads
Jul 07 18:15:58 <kerio> and hope that OMP will pick up its role?
Jul 07 18:16:16 <SpeedEvil> Search for keyboard matrix on the wiki
Jul 07 18:17:57 <Sicelo> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard
Jul 07 18:19:12 <jean_brat> ya i have seen that Sicelo . my question is .. how it is inside the domesheet? where does the domesheet gets the supply for a particular key
Jul 07 18:19:30 <jean_brat> routing inside the domesheet.. any diagram for that?
Jul 07 18:20:47 <Sicelo> i don't know much hardware-wise jean_brat. sorry. i've never even taken a screw out of my N900
Jul 07 18:21:58 <jean_brat> its ok fella.. thanks for your help..
Jul 07 18:24:45 <jean_brat> is there a place i can place my querry..? about n900? in meego site?
Jul 07 18:31:32 <StyXman> jean_brat: talk.maemo.org
Jul 07 18:31:41 <StyXman> and it's maemo, not meego
Jul 07 18:32:33 <DocScrutinizer05> jean_brat: there's that little info bit I posted to wiki:
Jul 07 18:34:26 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems
Jul 07 18:34:49 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard
Jul 07 18:35:49 <DocScrutinizer05> jean_brat: your QROW4 is defect. Quite probably not a problem of domesheet
Jul 07 18:37:51 <jean_brat> i figured that. and thought its not getting the supply from the board to pull up.. but don know whcih part of the board
Jul 07 18:39:43 <DocScrutinizer05> jean_brat: eiter your QROW4 trace has a short to GND (or other signal), or a break, or the GAIA chip pin/GPIO is defect
Jul 07 18:43:01 <jean_brat> Hi DocScrutinizer could you please explain me from the diagram shown in pagenumber 20 of service manual?
Jul 07 18:43:30 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, no service maual at hand atm
Jul 07 18:43:54 <DocScrutinizer05> jean_brat: please test if "u" key still works when you hold "t" key pressed
Jul 07 18:44:34 <jean_brat> i can send if you want? PDF.. just take a screen shot
Jul 07 18:44:49 <jean_brat> DocScrutinizer, what does that prove?
Jul 07 18:45:09 <DocScrutinizer05> it proves QROW4 not pulled to GND hard
Jul 07 18:45:21 <DocScrutinizer05> so it must be a break then
Jul 07 18:47:09 <DocScrutinizer05> if QROW4 was short to GND (or other alien signal), pressing "t" connects QCOL0 to same level. This should stop iuyrewq keys to work as long as t keys pulls QCOL0 to GND via QROW4
Jul 07 18:48:26 <DocScrutinizer05> for all I know the domesheet has no traces whatsoever, just contact pads to short 2 contact rings on each key position
Jul 07 18:48:51 <DocScrutinizer05> so nothing you could fix on domesheet to make QROW4 work again
Jul 07 18:49:40 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm rather afraid you got a fatal defect
Jul 07 18:51:12 <jean_brat> U works even if i kept pressing the T button
Jul 07 18:51:13 <DocScrutinizer05> can't tell for sure without inspecting the device myself, but probably your GAIA chip is broken
Jul 07 18:51:42 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, that confirms it's not an accidental short of QROW4 to any other signal
Jul 07 18:52:02 <DocScrutinizer05> so it has to be a break in QROW4 trace
Jul 07 18:52:09 <DocScrutinizer05> probably inside chip
Jul 07 18:52:20 <DocScrutinizer05> or on chip solder point
Jul 07 18:53:12 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry!
Jul 07 18:53:26 <DocScrutinizer05> :.(
Jul 07 18:53:51 <jean_brat> i already lost faith on this.. so be it.. lets screw this thing
Jul 07 18:54:09 <jean_brat> can you point me to the main keyboard control chip?:
Jul 07 18:54:19 <jean_brat> from the diagram?
Jul 07 18:58:11 <peterbjornx_n900> twl4030 i think
Jul 07 18:58:21 <jean_brat> GAIA chip that you have mentioned DocScrutinizer 
Jul 07 18:59:13 <peterbjornx_n900> thats gaia iirc
Jul 07 19:01:06 <jean_brat> thanks peterbjornx_n900 
Jul 07 19:02:31 <jean_brat> are you sure abut this peterbjornx_n900 ?
Jul 07 19:06:10 <peterbjornx_n900> not completely
Jul 07 19:06:36 <peterbjornx_n900> but as far as i can remember the twl4030 handles kb 
Jul 07 19:06:48 <peterbjornx_n900> and tons of other tasks
Jul 07 19:16:07 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jul 07 19:16:55 <DocScrutinizer05> GAIA == twl4030 == tps65950 == the companion chip handling kbd among others
Jul 07 19:17:53 <DocScrutinizer05> page 4 of Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf
Jul 07 19:28:59 <Sicelo> our jean_brat evidently didn't have that doc
Jul 07 19:48:46 <kerio> did someone uninstall mediaplayer successfully?
Jul 07 19:50:52 <Sc0rpius> I think Jolla + Meego + good hardware manufacturer is better than Tizen + Samsung
Jul 07 19:50:57 <Sc0rpius> and better than Mer?
Jul 07 19:51:07 <Sc0rpius> I'm really looking forward to that
Jul 07 19:51:42 <Stskeeps> well, it's Jolla + Mer, but sure
Jul 07 19:51:50 <Sc0rpius> JOLLA + MER??????????
Jul 07 19:51:53 <Sc0rpius> please don't
Jul 07 19:51:57 <Sc0rpius> I thought it was Jolla + Meego :(
Jul 07 19:52:06 <Sc0rpius> I mean I tried Nemo and I didn't like it.
Jul 07 19:52:14 <Sicelo> Lol. evidently you don't know who Stskeeps is
Jul 07 19:52:15 <Sicelo> :P
Jul 07 19:52:25 <Sc0rpius> I don't know who anybody is around here :P
Jul 07 19:53:04 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: then he maybe should have downloaded it from the intarnetz
Jul 07 19:54:21 <kerio> wtf is mediaplayer-restore
Jul 07 19:54:28 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc
Jul 07 19:54:49 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wtf mediaplayer-restore
Jul 07 19:54:50 <infobot> usage: wtf <foo>.
Jul 07 19:54:51 <kerio> you always say that! :C
Jul 07 19:55:07 <DocScrutinizer05> ~useless
Jul 07 19:55:08 * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :(
Jul 07 19:55:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wtf wtf
Jul 07 19:55:24 <infobot> WTF: {what,where,who,why} the fuck 
Jul 07 19:55:32 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wtf mediaplayer-restore
Jul 07 19:55:33 <infobot> usage: wtf <foo>.
Jul 07 19:55:36 <kerio> why the hell does imageviewer depend on mediaplayer-l10n-mr0?
Jul 07 19:55:39 <kerio> hahaha wow
Jul 07 19:55:52 <kerio> it depends on mediaplayer-l10n-mr0 OR mediaplayer-l10n-mr0
Jul 07 19:56:10 <kerio> why does nokia suck so many balls
Jul 07 19:56:13 <kerio> ~8ball
Jul 07 19:56:13 * infobot rolls the eight ball and gets: Outlook good
Jul 07 19:56:22 <kerio> that's not a good answer :(
Jul 07 19:56:44 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: do you have any clue of how mime types are resolved, when opening files in maemo?
Jul 07 19:56:46 <Stskeeps> Sc0rpius: nemo has nothing to deal with how good a product people can make..
Jul 07 19:57:11 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: a faint clue, yes. there's sth around .desktop files
Jul 07 19:57:57 <DocScrutinizer05> each app has some "serviced filetypes" def in .desktop
Jul 07 19:58:01 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik
Jul 07 19:58:08 <freemangordon> :nod:
Jul 07 19:58:23 <freemangordon> mime types are in .desktop files
Jul 07 19:58:29 <Sc0rpius> well, we'll see I guess
Jul 07 19:58:30 <kerio> if i remove mediaplayer, will media files be opened by omp?
Jul 07 19:58:35 <Sc0rpius> if it's a product as good as the N900, I'm in.
Jul 07 19:58:48 <Sc0rpius> and I said N900 not N9.
Jul 07 20:00:24 <DocScrutinizer05> Sc0rpius: it seems this new spinoff might be not completely averse to hiring me. so odds are I might throw in some helping rant about properties of product, which - I promise - would help to make the final product meet your requirements regarding that
Jul 07 20:00:38 <Sc0rpius> nice
Jul 07 20:00:43 <Sc0rpius> that's good news
Jul 07 20:01:04 <Stskeeps> Sc0rpius: nemo has nothing to deal with how good a product people can make using Mer, for good measure :)
Jul 07 20:01:07 <japh> kerio, what is omp, is that the thing that we got ootb?
Jul 07 20:01:10 <Stskeeps> (if i already said that, sorry)
Jul 07 20:01:21 <kerio> japh: no, omp is openmediaplayer
Jul 07 20:01:28 <kerio> it's a replacement UI for mafw
Jul 07 20:01:32 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: of course you know it's always the product managers that define the product, never the engineers
Jul 07 20:01:50 <DocScrutinizer05> err Sc0rpius^^^
Jul 07 20:01:54 <japh> hms, and here I thought I had every possible repo there is
Jul 07 20:02:15 <freemangordon> japh: it is in in extras-devel
Jul 07 20:02:52 <japh> but I have that enabled :(
Jul 07 20:02:57 <japh> what's the package name?
Jul 07 20:03:00 <DocScrutinizer05> Sc0rpius: and tbh I'm fine with that. I wouldn't want me and my colleagues define fianl shape and appearance of any product
Jul 07 20:03:05 <kerio> japh: openmediaplayer, i think
Jul 07 20:03:08 <kerio> it's a really good UI
Jul 07 20:03:16 <kerio> freemangordon: should i install cssu-thumb?
Jul 07 20:03:34 <freemangordon> kerio: it is up to you
Jul 07 20:03:49 <DocScrutinizer05> Sc0rpius: but I goddamn want product managers to *ask* us about our opinion
Jul 07 20:03:52 <kerio> will it screw with the rest of cssu?
Jul 07 20:04:06 <freemangordon> you'll have some more free RAM
Jul 07 20:04:21 <kerio> that's good
Jul 07 20:04:22 <freemangordon> kerio: no, installing CSSU-thumb automagically installs CSSU-testing
Jul 07 20:04:23 <Sc0rpius> hehehe
Jul 07 20:04:32 <kerio> freemangordon: i'm already on cssu-testing
Jul 07 20:04:32 <kerio> i mean, duh
Jul 07 20:04:39 <freemangordon> NP 
Jul 07 20:04:46 <kerio> who the hell is *not* on cssu-testing?
Jul 07 20:04:58 <freemangordon> kerio: most of the n900 owners
Jul 07 20:05:13 <DocScrutinizer05> proct manager: "it needs OLEDS!" Me: "where? for what purpose? how many?"  PM: "no idea. but make it happen. it needs OLEDS!"  <-- I *HATE* that
Jul 07 20:06:24 <kerio> hm, what's the package that installs the "Single sign on for Ovi by Nokia" extension in microb?
Jul 07 20:06:53 <kerio> can i uninstall that in microb?
Jul 07 20:08:35 <japh> ☃_ apt-cache search o'mp|open.*med'|grep play
Jul 07 20:08:35 <japh> libcanberra-gtk0 - Gtk+ helper for playing widget event sounds with libcanberra
Jul 07 20:08:38 <japh> :(
Jul 07 20:08:57 <japh> there's a billion mediaplayer-foobar packages though
Jul 07 20:09:02 <kerio> japh: "openmediaplayer"
Jul 07 20:09:07 <kerio> i mean, seriously now
Jul 07 20:09:18 <japh> why doesn't it show up here? I do have testing enabled
Jul 07 20:09:48 <kerio> maybe it's only in -devel?
Jul 07 20:10:11 <japh> ☃_ grep devel /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list 
Jul 07 20:10:12 <japh> deb     http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free non-free
Jul 07 20:10:12 <japh> deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free
Jul 07 20:10:14 <japh> this, no?
Jul 07 20:10:17 <kerio> yeah
Jul 07 20:10:20 <kerio> \_o_/
Jul 07 20:10:23 <japh> grr
Jul 07 20:11:16 <japh> http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/install/openmediaplayer.install 
Jul 07 20:11:20 <japh> <_<
Jul 07 20:13:48 <japh> ok, guess what
Jul 07 20:13:57 <DocScrutinizer05> Sc0rpius: btw N9 is all but a sub-par piece of hardware craftmanship. Just I guess the product requirement specs don't exactly meet your taste
Jul 07 20:14:01 <japh> openmediaplayer unvanished now
Jul 07 20:14:16 <japh> though it feels like I've been doing nothing but apt-get updates all day
Jul 07 20:15:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Sc0rpius: in fact I think it's one of the cutest *phones* I ever owned
Jul 07 20:15:26 <Sc0rpius> I didn't know you had one
Jul 07 20:15:55 <DocScrutinizer05> $Nokia thought I need one for hw reference purposes
Jul 07 20:16:24 <DocScrutinizer05> and my attestation is: it's quite nicely built
Jul 07 20:16:42 <DocScrutinizer05> just absolutely not what I want to use
Jul 07 20:17:02 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: would you use it if it had a physical keyboard and maemo?
Jul 07 20:17:13 <DocScrutinizer05> probably yes
Jul 07 20:17:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd still _miss_ the uSD slot though
Jul 07 20:21:01 <kerio> freemangordon: how much do i have to download to install cssu-thumb? i'm kinda short on traffic for the summer, sadly
Jul 07 20:21:44 <freemangordon> kerio: NFC, about 40-50 MB. HAM will tell you the value
Jul 07 20:21:50 <kerio> hm
Jul 07 20:22:04 <kerio> i suppose i can deal with that
Jul 07 20:22:12 <kerio> not sure, i have to think about it
Jul 07 20:22:23 <kerio> freemangordon: will it remove kernel-power-installer?
Jul 07 20:22:28 <kerio> i mean, by itself?
Jul 07 20:24:35 <freemangordon> kerio: and what is kernel-power-installer?
Jul 07 20:24:49 <kerio> freemangordon: the thingy that installs KP
Jul 07 20:25:28 <freemangordon> aah, you mean kernel-power-flasher? no, it will stayu there, along with kernel-power-modules
Jul 07 20:25:40 <freemangordon> and all other kernel-power-* packages
Jul 07 20:26:55 <kerio> but why? kernel-cssu clearly conflicts with it
Jul 07 20:27:02 <kerio> because, you know, it's another kernel
Jul 07 20:28:26 <freemangordon> conflicts? in what exactly way? what if you want both kernels u-bootable?
Jul 07 20:28:58 <kerio> then you'll quickly find that your old kernel can't boot
Jul 07 20:29:10 <kerio> because a good third of your installed system requires the new kernel
Jul 07 20:30:52 * DocScrutinizer05 hmmm's loudly
Jul 07 20:30:59 <freemangordon> kerio: I heard from the maintaner, that next KP will have thumb errata fixes included :P
Jul 07 20:31:03 <kerio> yay ^_^
Jul 07 20:31:19 <japh> kerio, woah!!
Jul 07 20:31:29 <DocScrutinizer05> the kernel itself has just an added feature to support thumb
Jul 07 20:31:29 <kerio> japh: what?
Jul 07 20:31:44 <freemangordon> :nod:
Jul 07 20:31:55 <freemangordon> which will be included in next KP
Jul 07 20:32:04 <DocScrutinizer05> nothing that could potentially conflict too much with anything PK or stock kernel
Jul 07 20:32:08 <japh> kerio, there was this strange looking icon in that openmediaplayer thing that I mashed, and what happens? it's using this DLNA or whatever it's called to access all of my shit on the n950
Jul 07 20:32:17 <japh> very cool, but very dangerous 
Jul 07 20:32:31 <kerio> if cssu decides to move to thumb binaries, they'll have to actually make people install PK, right?
Jul 07 20:32:38 <freemangordon> no
Jul 07 20:32:56 <kerio> japh: neat
Jul 07 20:33:06 <freemangordon> kernel-cssu will be a part of that binaries
Jul 07 20:33:16 <kerio> but kernel-cssu is kernel-power
Jul 07 20:33:17 <DocScrutinizer05> besides cssu never will "move" to thumb, it will just need a kernel that has thumb-errata workaround feature
Jul 07 20:33:20 <freemangordon> if there is no KP already unstalled
Jul 07 20:33:38 <freemangordon> kerio: so what?
Jul 07 20:34:02 <kerio> so... something something overclock something something slippery slope
Jul 07 20:34:11 <kerio> something something DocScrutinizer
Jul 07 20:34:17 <freemangordon> who told you KP is OC only?
Jul 07 20:34:44 <DocScrutinizer05> this thread lost me
Jul 07 20:34:55 <kerio> freemangordon: idk, i only install it for wifi injection
Jul 07 20:35:18 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: example wifi-hotspot
Jul 07 20:35:25 <kerio> ooh right
Jul 07 20:35:26 <kerio> that too
Jul 07 20:35:27 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: it needs netfilters in kernel
Jul 07 20:35:33 <freemangordon> kerio: ever heard of SR, 720p, etc..
Jul 07 20:35:38 <kerio> i don't have a data plan as of now though, so i still haven't installed it
Jul 07 20:35:43 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: ...so it will depend on any kernel providing that feature
Jul 07 20:35:50 <freemangordon> :nod:
Jul 07 20:35:58 <kerio> freemangordon: i didn't know SR required KP :o
Jul 07 20:36:03 <kerio> and what's that 720p thing?
Jul 07 20:36:14 <kerio> you need a special *kernel* for hd playback?
Jul 07 20:36:29 <freemangordon> kerio: google is your friend, ask gogle for "n900 720p"
Jul 07 20:36:41 <freemangordon> yeap, that special kernel is KP
Jul 07 20:37:11 <freemangordon> kerio: not only playback ;)
Jul 07 20:37:28 <kerio> wtf, 720p video capture?
Jul 07 20:37:29 <kerio> that's neat
Jul 07 20:37:53 <kerio> the fact that you have to overclock the dsp is kinda bad though
Jul 07 20:38:39 <freemangordon> well, even if you don't want DSP OC, using that makes a huge difference for standart resolutions, by by stuttering videos
Jul 07 20:38:42 <kerio> and i suppose that having a good kernel is required, if you want to dick around with the chips
Jul 07 20:39:18 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: the whole point about cssu and new kernels is: no modules built for stock kernel will work with _any_ new kernel. So we'd lose all the apps (and users of those apps) that come with kernel modules for whatever weird stuff. If those apps are closed source (think e.g. blessN900, or a USB webcam driver) we're screwed with a cssu that would ship new kernel
Jul 07 20:40:13 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer: blessn900 works with KP, fcam drivers too and I can't think of any other app
Jul 07 20:40:21 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: on the other hand, backwards compatibility with closed-source stuff is something that cssu shouldn't *aim* for, at least
Jul 07 20:40:26 <freemangordon> not that I want to start that discussion now :)
Jul 07 20:40:30 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: doesn't change the basic rationale
Jul 07 20:40:41 <kerio> freemangordon: joikuspot?
Jul 07 20:40:44 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: ^^^
Jul 07 20:40:58 <freemangordon> kerio: NP with joikuspot AFAIK
Jul 07 20:41:06 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: since you by definition can't know about all the possibly existing packages out there that would conflict
Jul 07 20:41:26 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: that is what CSSU-testing is for
Jul 07 20:41:31 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: do we really want to keep that kind of backwards compat?
Jul 07 20:41:33 <DocScrutinizer05> nope
Jul 07 20:41:43 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: yes
Jul 07 20:42:09 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: ok, so how would you integrate something like cssu-thumb in cssu proper?
Jul 07 20:42:14 <DocScrutinizer05> since cssu-testing is exactly _not_ about shipping a new not backward compatible OS version
Jul 07 20:42:15 <freemangordon> you can take the last fiasco with cbs-widget as an example
Jul 07 20:42:35 <kerio> freemangordon: which fiasco?
Jul 07 20:42:43 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05 knows
Jul 07 20:42:48 <kerio> yeah but i don't
Jul 07 20:42:50 <kerio> that's why i asked
Jul 07 20:43:01 <freemangordon> see cssu-testing thread on TMO
Jul 07 20:43:02 <DocScrutinizer05> the mega fiasco of operator name applet got fecked by this pckg
Jul 07 20:44:06 <DocScrutinizer05> there's nothing wrong with optional packages, even optional kernels. But no way we'll sacrifice cssu backward compatibility at large for any leete new feature
Jul 07 20:44:19 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: moar ram! :c
Jul 07 20:45:04 <DocScrutinizer05> cssu original idea been that user is allowed to cherrypick any subset she likes
Jul 07 20:45:22 <DocScrutinizer05> not to replace original maemo by a complete new rewrite
Jul 07 20:45:35 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: we included a package with no real benefit which breaks another package, agree? But you refuse to include a package with clear benefit, that MIGHT break some yet unknown application. I fail to see the rationale.
Jul 07 20:46:03 <freemangordon> re-compile is not re-write
Jul 07 20:46:39 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: do we have some stats wrt the kernel that cssu users use?
Jul 07 20:46:43 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: that's a really nasty way to argue. We did this fault by accident, and ypou suggest we now do it on purpose as we don't yet find the forseeable conflicts and breakages it will give us?
Jul 07 20:47:00 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: irrelevant
Jul 07 20:47:17 <kerio> it doesn't seem too irrelevant to me
Jul 07 20:47:47 <DocScrutinizer05> anything that's now is vastly irrelevant for what's where we wanna go to
Jul 07 20:48:23 <kerio> the kind of person who would buy a n900, the kind of person who would install cssu and the kind of person who would install KP are very similar though
Jul 07 20:48:34 <DocScrutinizer05> "we got 23 users now. So why don't we distribute new OS by sending out DVDs?"
Jul 07 20:48:39 <kerio> i mean, the last two are obviously subsets of the first, but...
Jul 07 20:50:17 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: Being an accident or on purpose is irrelevant, now cbs-widget is a part of CSSU-T and AIUI we will have to find a way to make it compatible with the package it conflicts with. Don;t see a reason why the same would not work for thumb.
Jul 07 20:50:26 <kerio> what does it conflict with?
Jul 07 20:50:51 <DocScrutinizer05> CSSU is meant to allow painless migration to every N900 user, no matter if she's a kernel hacker, power user, or my granny with no clue abiut KP and thumb
Jul 07 20:51:24 <kerio> "It just works"
Jul 07 20:51:28 <kerio> i've heard that somewhere
Jul 07 20:51:30 <DocScrutinizer05> actually it's not even any migration
Jul 07 20:51:37 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: agree, but it is not by chance that we have 2 flavors
Jul 07 20:51:45 <DocScrutinizer05> it's merely continuation of what Nokia did, but better
Jul 07 20:52:03 <freemangordon> and thumb fits perfectly in that
Jul 07 20:52:19 <freemangordon> they fail to do it, we make it
Jul 07 20:52:20 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: right, we got Stable only because I pushed it like mad
Jul 07 20:52:45 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: no matter why, we have it
Jul 07 20:53:16 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, and it has a clearly defined purpose, that doesn't change the definition of cssu-t at all
Jul 07 20:54:01 * freemangordon is afk for a couple of minutes
Jul 07 20:54:37 <DocScrutinizer05> cssu-t and cssu-s both are meant to be continuations on stock maemo - just we're not Nokia so we can't switch basic properties of whole system just because some devels think it's leete
Jul 07 20:54:50 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: but it's really, really, really leete!
Jul 07 20:54:58 <DocScrutinizer05> irrelevant
Jul 07 20:55:08 <DocScrutinizer05> we got cssu-thumb for that
Jul 07 20:55:15 <DocScrutinizer05> and the cssu optional packages
Jul 07 20:55:49 <DocScrutinizer05> thumb for a basic change in system properties that'll break continuity, optional packages for all other crap
Jul 07 20:56:26 <DocScrutinizer05> if that's still not sufficient for you, suggest augmenting
Jul 07 20:56:28 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: in what way thumb is not a continuation of stock maemo?
Jul 07 20:56:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I already elaborated on it
Jul 07 20:57:00 <DocScrutinizer05> it breaks stuff for old packages
Jul 07 20:57:36 <DocScrutinizer05> we got cssu-thumb for a reason
Jul 07 20:57:39 <freemangordon> no, what you said is that it MIGHT break some unknown package
Jul 07 20:57:57 <DocScrutinizer05> the reason not being it was originally meant to be named cssu-t
Jul 07 20:58:19 <DocScrutinizer05> no, it WILL break any arbitrary number of yet unknown packages, definitely
Jul 07 20:59:09 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: and the reason to have cssu-thumb was that noone (including me) was 100% sure thumb thingie will actually work without crashes
Jul 07 20:59:39 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i can make a package that works with pr1.3.1 and stops working with cssu
Jul 07 20:59:45 <kerio> i can make an arbitrary amount of those
Jul 07 20:59:49 <kerio> why should cssu care?
Jul 07 20:59:56 <DocScrutinizer05> look budy, if you're the leete kernel hacker you say you are, you can build a new kernel that still keeps module compatibilty to old stock kernel modules. I'm mor ethan willing to support a migration to such a kernel
Jul 07 21:00:54 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: I can design a virus that - when set free - will find its way to you and kill you in 5 minutes. Why should you care?
Jul 07 21:01:06 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: that is totally different thing to what you were saying ;)
Jul 07 21:01:36 <freemangordon> I can easily add my workarounds to omap1, matter of 1 hour
Jul 07 21:02:27 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: only because *I* personally don't think your SUCH an awesome leete kernel hacker to pull that - no offense, me neither is
Jul 07 21:03:39 <DocScrutinizer05> demonstarte fcam kernel modules for stock maemo kernel will load and work on your patched thumb-kernel and i'm all for including it (as an option) to CSSU
Jul 07 21:03:56 <freemangordon> so what if I am not? Not that I disagree, but how that makes it different. I need 1 hour to put ARM thumb errata workaround in omap1
Jul 07 21:04:21 <DocScrutinizer05> but that kernel has feckedup ABI
Jul 07 21:04:21 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: ok, we have a deal
Jul 07 21:04:30 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: no, why?
Jul 07 21:04:40 <freemangordon> what's wrong with ABI?
Jul 07 21:04:44 <DocScrutinizer05> becuase you changed addresses
Jul 07 21:04:54 <DocScrutinizer05> and module signing hash
Jul 07 21:04:58 <DocScrutinizer05> and whatnot else
Jul 07 21:05:14 <freemangordon> I see.
Jul 07 21:05:30 <DocScrutinizer05> nota bene I didn't suggest you recompile fcam drivers for your modded "original fake" kernel
Jul 07 21:05:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I meant the real original binaries, compiled against original kernel
Jul 07 21:06:22 <freemangordon> yeah, i got that. fortunately gc assigns one and the same addresses every time it compiles the kernel
Jul 07 21:06:30 <freemangordon> *gcc
Jul 07 21:06:40 <DocScrutinizer05> the very reason why fcam drivers for KP48 didn't even work for KP49
Jul 07 21:07:21 <freemangordon> of course, because it has different signiture, ie power48 against power49
Jul 07 21:07:28 <DocScrutinizer05> so why would fcsm drivers compiled for stock kernel work for your kp50+thumb kernel?
Jul 07 21:07:49 <DocScrutinizer05> make that work and you got one more supporter
Jul 07 21:08:07 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: I was talking about omap1, not KP
Jul 07 21:08:19 <DocScrutinizer05> whatever you like
Jul 07 21:08:27 <freemangordon> ok, we have a deal :)
Jul 07 21:08:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not per se against new kernels, I'm against breaking module ABI
Jul 07 21:09:58 <DocScrutinizer05> as long as users aren't even aware what kernel they run, as *all* packages install and work just like on stock kernel (except those that install now but wouldn't install on stock)
Jul 07 21:10:06 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm fine with new kernel
Jul 07 21:10:09 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: so, if there was no way to keep it, cssu would be stuck with the crappy nokia kernel?
Jul 07 21:10:16 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: ok, got it
Jul 07 21:10:27 <kerio> (it = module ABI)
Jul 07 21:11:13 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: we got closed blobs in stock maemo that need stock kernel
Jul 07 21:11:28 <kerio> like what?
Jul 07 21:11:34 <DocScrutinizer05> err, maybe a bit fuzzy
Jul 07 21:11:45 <DocScrutinizer05> scratch it, you probably misunderstood
Jul 07 21:11:51 <kerio> i probably did
Jul 07 21:12:34 <kerio> i am aware that there are or might be third-party packages that won't work, except with the stock kernel, because they ship modules for the stock kernel and only the stock kernel
Jul 07 21:12:35 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway I think fmg and me have a deal, and I _really_ hope fmg will reach the aim
Jul 07 21:12:59 <kerio> of course he will
Jul 07 21:13:03 <kerio> he's gordon fucking freeman
Jul 07 21:13:10 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
Jul 07 21:13:16 <kerio> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SM-tUO5uqMQ/TP9gJvSWIWI/AAAAAAAAA1g/61JnKjAsA2w/s1600/half_life.jpg this dude
Jul 07 21:13:37 <freemangordon> yeah, right :D:D:D
Jul 07 21:13:49 <Raimu> Any coding involving pushing buttons or hitting with a crowbar can be done.
Jul 07 21:14:15 <kerio> or shotgunning aliens and government agents
Jul 07 21:14:23 <freemangordon> Raimu: but of course, that is why I use that tool for coding
Jul 07 21:14:31 <Raimu> That's not technically coding, although shooting aliens could creatively fall under debugging.
Jul 07 21:15:11 <Raimu> There was a hilarious line of dialogue in H-L2 I think when someone orders Gordon to press some buttons and remarks that there his MIT education finally pays off.
Jul 07 21:16:04 <kerio> "So the game starts on a ridiculously long tram trip to work as Gordon Freeman, a PhD graduate in theoretical physics which apparently translates to pushing a button and moving a cart" - notBowen, Half-Life 1 in 60 seconds
Jul 07 21:16:37 <kerio> Raimu: that's Barney, in the first scene with dr kleiner
Jul 07 21:16:51 <Raimu> Yuh, been a while since I beat the game.
Jul 07 21:17:33 <kerio> "You are of course beyond all of this, and you manage to teleport to the alien world where you begin to research the shit out of everything in sight."
Jul 07 21:17:45 <Raimu> "With your shotgun."
Jul 07 21:17:57 <kerio> Raimu: http://youtu.be/AlJB9Wg-MTU
Jul 07 21:18:03 <Macer> lol
Jul 07 21:18:06 <Macer> http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/523448_355791824490804_1355028907_n.jpg
Jul 07 21:18:59 <Raimu> kerio: haha!
Jul 07 21:20:38 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer: are you aware of any other modules besides fcam that need babysitting?
Jul 07 21:20:59 <DocScrutinizer05> actually not
Jul 07 21:21:10 <freemangordon> ok
Jul 07 21:21:22 <DocScrutinizer05> but then I never looked into commercial sw for N900
Jul 07 21:21:38 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno even if there's any
Jul 07 21:21:55 <kerio> well, isn't joikuspot supposed to ship some kernel modules to do its thing?
Jul 07 21:21:56 <Raimu> I think you can count 'em with two hands.
Jul 07 21:21:58 <kerio> that's commercial and stuff
Jul 07 21:22:07 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: yep quite possible
Jul 07 21:22:21 <freemangordon> kerio: joikuspot has no problrms with KP
Jul 07 21:22:33 <freemangordon> .ko loads pretty well
Jul 07 21:22:34 <kerio> freemangordon: that's probably special handling by KP though
Jul 07 21:22:44 <freemangordon> no matter what
Jul 07 21:23:11 <DocScrutinizer05> a very goot strting point for investigations
Jul 07 21:23:17 <DocScrutinizer05> good*
Jul 07 21:23:22 <DocScrutinizer05> damn
Jul 07 21:23:27 <freemangordon> Pali should be able to elaborate
Jul 07 21:23:31 <DocScrutinizer05> a very good starting point for investigations
Jul 07 21:23:41 <freemangordon> yeah
Jul 07 21:24:14 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: do you still have concerns about stability if thumb?
Jul 07 21:24:16 <freemangordon> *of
Jul 07 21:24:21 <DocScrutinizer05> if joghurt sport works with own closed src .ko, then we should expect to see how that works and generalize that solutions
Jul 07 21:25:12 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon:  I'm still undecided on it, since I still have no nice reading for a weekend that explains every gory detail why it works now
Jul 07 21:25:25 <kerio> oh wtf, why isn't OMP in the file manager's application list
Jul 07 21:25:27 <kerio> :s
Jul 07 21:26:11 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: did you read the thumb thread's OP. I know it is not tachnical, never intended to be, but still
Jul 07 21:26:21 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: so until I read such article, I'm still sceptic and expect to run into oversights
Jul 07 21:26:27 <kerio> vi__: how did you make File manager open shit in OMP?
Jul 07 21:27:21 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: come on man, even mra said it is possible :P
Jul 07 21:27:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I still haven't - for example - wrapped my head around how branch prediction queue is flushed every single time it needs flushng
Jul 07 21:27:52 <freemangordon> in kernel code that switches the contexts
Jul 07 21:28:15 <DocScrutinizer05> we got that patch in kernel code?
Jul 07 21:28:19 <freemangordon> the original workaround from TI does exactly that
Jul 07 21:28:22 <freemangordon> yes
Jul 07 21:29:14 <freemangordon> we got that patch since KP46, but it was not working, because IBE is not accessible (writable) from outside secure mode
Jul 07 21:29:23 <DocScrutinizer05> well, then if we assume this is actually the only possible way for a context switch, we probably are safe
Jul 07 21:30:00 <freemangordon> well, we should count on TI for that. but in general, yes
Jul 07 21:30:15 <DocScrutinizer05> I see possible context switches in IRQ and FIQ as well, for example
Jul 07 21:30:30 <DocScrutinizer05> no idea if that's a problem, got dealt with, or whatever
Jul 07 21:30:30 <freemangordon> those are executed with different register set
Jul 07 21:31:34 <freemangordon> you should be aware that user/kernel/secure/exception have their own registers
Jul 07 21:31:45 * DocScrutinizer05 has a peek on other window on this screen...
Jul 07 21:32:28 <DocScrutinizer05> system monitor: context switches / second: 1100...12000
Jul 07 21:32:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, that's a 2.7GHz Intel
Jul 07 21:32:48 <DocScrutinizer05> dual core
Jul 07 21:33:54 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: own registers: maybe. Own branch prediction queue: hardly
Jul 07 21:34:01 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: since slowdown is invisible from the user POV, we should not care about BTB flush
Jul 07 21:34:49 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: I still think we should trust TI on that
Jul 07 21:35:31 <freemangordon> have in mind this is an upstreamed patch, not some random piece of code I found over the inet
Jul 07 21:35:35 <DocScrutinizer05> but then, the context switch hook is a botch anyway. It's mainly about program text changes on a particular physical memaddr, and I hardly see that happen for IRQ handlers and kernel
Jul 07 21:36:04 <freemangordon> :nod: 
Jul 07 21:36:34 <DocScrutinizer05> so we *might* (hypothetically) run into a sigill whenever a new kernel module gets loaded
Jul 07 21:37:00 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a rather complex stuff to evaluate
Jul 07 21:37:03 <freemangordon> I think IRQ/FIQ handlers are impossible to be moved in memory
Jul 07 21:37:19 <DocScrutinizer05> don't ask me if I *believe* in it, since believe got nothing to do with it
Jul 07 21:37:21 <freemangordon> have in mind kernel is ARM
Jul 07 21:37:31 <DocScrutinizer05> :-D
Jul 07 21:37:49 <freemangordon> no thumb code there, so no way for this sigill to happen
Jul 07 21:38:28 <DocScrutinizer05> still a way to happen, if any thumb code been on same addr prior to loading that kernel module
Jul 07 21:38:48 <DocScrutinizer05> sigill works both ways
Jul 07 21:39:23 <DocScrutinizer05> actually faulty branches based on a bogus branch prediction not matching the actual code at that loacation
Jul 07 21:40:17 <freemangordon> hmm, again, priviledged mode has it's own PC and CPSR (i.e. mode flag placeholder). Don't aske me why, but I think that is not possible to happen
Jul 07 21:41:33 <DocScrutinizer05> previously acme app used that memory and had a branch instruction at 0xdeadbeef. BPB holds branch destination. Now acme app quit and we load a kernel module there. Now at 0xdeadbeef there's again a branch instruction, but this time ARM instr set. It will happily use the bogus BTB value since it never got flushed
Jul 07 21:42:09 <freemangordon> no, as we will have at least one context switch in between ;)
Jul 07 21:42:32 <freemangordon> agree?
Jul 07 21:42:46 <DocScrutinizer05> we really have, for the process that's using this part of BTB?
Jul 07 21:43:01 <freemangordon> no, the flush is for whole BTB
Jul 07 21:43:04 <DocScrutinizer05> (I admit I have NFC about sice of BTB)
Jul 07 21:43:08 <freemangordon> not by address
Jul 07 21:43:22 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm, then we're safe for this scenario
Jul 07 21:43:27 <freemangordon> (or by process, whatever)
Jul 07 21:43:29 <freemangordon> yep
Jul 07 21:44:14 <DocScrutinizer05> I admit it's hard to find the bug in this fix, but I can't say I would bet my ass on it being bugfree
Jul 07 21:44:44 <DocScrutinizer05> at least I appreciate you did your very best to ensure it is
Jul 07 21:45:26 <DocScrutinizer05> so is thumb-arrata-fix safe? I dunno. Would I dare to use it? probably yes
Jul 07 21:45:41 <freemangordon> well, both theory and practice tell us it is bugfree. Not that I will bet my ass. Neither on that, nor on any other piece if SW :D
Jul 07 21:46:06 <freemangordon> BUt it seems to be as stable and bugfree as humanly possible
Jul 07 21:46:15 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Jul 07 21:46:18 <Raimu> :nod:
Jul 07 21:46:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd appreciate a watchdog that tells us whenever something smells odd
Jul 07 21:46:58 <DocScrutinizer05> e.g a special sigill handler
Jul 07 21:47:30 <freemangordon> judging from the TMO thread, at least 15-25 people use that for a month or so, some of them being knowledgeable enough to spot is something looks bad. 
Jul 07 21:47:33 <DocScrutinizer05> that pops up a distinguishable unique error msg
Jul 07 21:47:46 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: you don't need that woth thumb2-compiled xserver ;)
Jul 07 21:47:54 <freemangordon> *with
Jul 07 21:48:17 <freemangordon> ass soon as something gets wrong with X you are busted
Jul 07 21:48:31 <freemangordon> and you will notice it
Jul 07 21:48:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd just want to make sure users can instantly tell apart sigill from general usual null-pointer-deref
Jul 07 21:49:20 <DocScrutinizer05> _all_ users
Jul 07 21:50:26 <DocScrutinizer05> thjough again: a stale BPB branch isn't invariably related to SIGILL
Jul 07 21:50:37 <DocScrutinizer05> it can cause whatever BS to happen
Jul 07 21:50:58 <DocScrutinizer05> so the watchdog approach is moot
Jul 07 21:51:46 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: yep, segfault as well, actually that happened to me (and I put another patch in kernel) because thumb2 signal handlers were not properly supported in the kernel
Jul 07 21:52:18 <DocScrutinizer05> and that's the abstract problem with this thumb-erratum: it has no defined recogniceable error pattern
Jul 07 21:52:47 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: it was a bug in our kernel, nothing to do with the erratum
Jul 07 21:53:08 <DocScrutinizer05> not answering to your last post
Jul 07 21:53:17 <freemangordon> aah, ok
Jul 07 21:54:06 <DocScrutinizer05> whenever this shit hits, you get an arbitrary random error in arbitrary sub-systems
Jul 07 21:54:31 <DocScrutinizer05> nobody really can tell hindsight "it's benn caused by thumb erratum"
Jul 07 21:54:37 <DocScrutinizer05> been*
Jul 07 21:54:51 <freemangordon> sure, thats what happens without countermeasuers
Jul 07 21:56:07 <DocScrutinizer05> we *could* tell if we had a ETM trace of the last 5k branches that happened, plus the memory coredump
Jul 07 21:56:18 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: but still, I think it is stable.
Jul 07 21:56:35 <DocScrutinizer05> so we'd see the intruction tells "jump to 0xdead but it jumped to 0cbeef
Jul 07 21:56:55 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, probably stable enough to give it a shot
Jul 07 21:57:08 <freemangordon> :nod:
Jul 07 21:57:47 <DocScrutinizer05> I just wonder if our OMAP3 has Embedded Trace Macrocell
Jul 07 21:57:55 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: have in mind I am using it on my primary (only) phone
Jul 07 21:58:04 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah, I seem to recall I read it has
Jul 07 21:58:30 <DocScrutinizer05> would be mad usefull to put that thing to purpose
Jul 07 21:58:52 <DocScrutinizer05> a trace of last 6500 branches, incredible
Jul 07 21:59:13 <DocScrutinizer05> even with timestanps it's still at least 3000
Jul 07 21:59:15 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: patches are welcome :P
Jul 07 21:59:21 <DocScrutinizer05> sure sure
Jul 07 22:00:49 <DocScrutinizer05> my colleagues are working on some similar stuff. I'l just "steal" their knowledge when they finished it ;-)
Jul 07 22:01:00 <Raimu> *chuckles*
Jul 07 22:01:19 <DocScrutinizer05> seems that ETM is a bitch
Jul 07 22:01:24 <freemangordon> anyway, I am off for sleep, night
Jul 07 22:01:29 <DocScrutinizer05> esp regarding clocks
Jul 07 22:01:32 * freemangordon waves
Jul 07 22:01:38 <DocScrutinizer05> night fmg
Jul 07 22:02:53 <DocScrutinizer05> but you *can* set it up to trace certain ranges of code/memory-addr, and you *can* read out the ETB content from main ARM core 
Jul 07 22:03:32 <DocScrutinizer05> no need to do that via JTAG only
Jul 07 22:06:04 <DocScrutinizer05> go figure that! on core dumps we not only get a dump of RAM content and register content, but also a trace of last few thousand cpu operations the CPU did
Jul 07 22:06:53 <Raimu> Well, that's convenient.
Jul 07 23:50:25 <RST38h> Moo, all
Jul 07 23:50:40 <RST38h> Jolla jolla jolla anyone? =)
Jul 07 23:51:37 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, I'm excited.
Jul 07 23:51:56 <DocScrutinizer05> hah
Jul 07 23:52:13 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, why hah?
Jul 07 23:52:16 <RST38h> General: pissing-acid excited or wait-and-see excited?
Jul 07 23:52:29 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, mostly wait-and-see.
Jul 07 23:52:34 <GeneralAntilles> There isn't much to go on
Jul 07 23:52:37 <DocScrutinizer05> just jolla jolla hah! ;-D
Jul 07 23:52:40 <RST38h> True
Jul 07 23:52:42 <GeneralAntilles> but the right people seem to be involved.
Jul 07 23:52:50 <DocScrutinizer05> hah
Jul 07 23:52:54 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
Jul 07 23:53:06 <GeneralAntilles> I'm heartened by the fact that they're announcing it months into progress
Jul 07 23:53:11 <GeneralAntilles> with a device supposedly coming this year.
Jul 07 23:53:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ???????????????
Jul 07 23:53:30 * RST38h hopes these guys will do community interaction right
Jul 07 23:53:37 <RST38h> i.e. the old Maemo4/5 way
Jul 07 23:53:43 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, well, given who it is, how could they not?
Jul 07 23:53:50 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: I'm already trying to "fix" that part
Jul 07 23:53:54 <DocScrutinizer05> among others
Jul 07 23:53:55 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, dumb question.
Jul 07 23:53:58 <RST38h> I dunno. You know how fatalistic I am about these things.
Jul 07 23:54:02 <GeneralAntilles> Still, I have a lot of optimism on that front.
Jul 07 23:54:30 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, the small size does mean we have a lot more leverage than we did with Nokia if things aren't going in the right direction.
Jul 07 23:55:00 <RST38h> Only if they are willing to listen
Jul 07 23:55:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm shouting
Jul 07 23:55:33 <DocScrutinizer05> already offered they hire me for basically free, for now
Jul 07 23:55:38 <GeneralAntilles> In all franklitude. I'm just freaking excited at the prospect of a disruptive, open source contender
Jul 07 23:55:49 <GeneralAntilles> and not being relegated to trying to nurse my N950 through the next 10 years.
Jul 07 23:56:07 <RST38h> Doc: not joking?
Jul 07 23:56:13 <DocScrutinizer05> not joking
Jul 07 23:56:25 <GeneralAntilles> Why for free?
Jul 07 23:56:30 <GeneralAntilles> If you have skills, demand currency for them.
Jul 07 23:56:30 <RST38h> Doc: I mean, applying for a startup like this, and not even asking for much money is a hard decision to make
Jul 07 23:56:35 <GeneralAntilles> Otherwise you're devaluing your skills.
Jul 07 23:56:49 <DocScrutinizer05> because they can't really reject such an offer ;-D
Jul 07 23:57:24 <RST38h> of course they can
Jul 07 23:57:33 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, funnily enough, one of the first things I thought of was "I wonder if DocScrutinizer05 is going to apply."
Jul 07 23:57:36 <DocScrutinizer05> they hire me for free, to do nothing for now, except "being in"
Jul 07 23:57:38 <RST38h> most companies hire by skills, not by asking price
Jul 07 23:57:51 <RST38h> although the price also matters of course
Jul 07 23:57:53 <DocScrutinizer05> if they want more, they gonna pay more - simple thing
Jul 07 23:59:04 <DocScrutinizer05> actually the real hacker wonders each day WTF they pay him for things he'd do anyway
Jul 07 23:59:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-D
Jul 08 00:00:24 <DocScrutinizer05> last company hiring me for my skills did that when they noticed they are in a pinch and that's actually been too late for fixing anything
Jul 08 00:00:38 <DocScrutinizer05> so this time I tried to make sure I'm in a bit earlier
Jul 08 00:01:44 <DocScrutinizer05> let's see if I managed to transport that idea to jolla
Jul 08 00:02:45 <DocScrutinizer05> "first device out this year" pretty much sounds like it's already too late again
Jul 08 00:03:42 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I got skills on the low level sw / driver side as well, and there the window closes way later than for hw design
Jul 08 00:05:53 <DocScrutinizer05> and for my main competence to explain to hw department what sw needs and explain to sw department what way hw is meant to be used, it's never too late. Just it's the most hard to explain part, as nobody usually sees the need for such an ambassador
Jul 08 00:08:14 <DocScrutinizer05> sw dudes looking down on EE and not really appreciating own competence is in bits and bytes not gates and busses, and EE not really bothering about what sw does with their brilliant hw design, as "it's obvious how to use it right - if anybody can't see that he's probably an idiot"
Jul 08 00:10:16 <DocScrutinizer05> so since it's always not your own fault how could you see the need for a translator or ambassador. If "the others" need one, fine. *They* can consider hiring a dude like doc
Jul 08 00:11:31 <SpeedEvil> Any sane vendor needs someone in that role.
Jul 08 00:11:55 <DocScrutinizer05> tell that the vendors, not me ;-)
Jul 08 00:13:01 <DocScrutinizer05> you know the origin of my nick
Jul 08 00:13:16 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jul 08 00:13:25 <DocScrutinizer05> .doc scrutinizer, eats .doc datasheets for breakfast
Jul 08 00:14:07 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Jul 08 00:14:14 <GeneralAntilles> I always figured Dr. Scrutinizer
Jul 08 00:14:33 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, everybody does
Jul 08 00:17:03 <GhostRider> nice name :o
Jul 08 00:17:08 <GhostRider> wait what why is this ghostrider
Jul 08 00:23:00 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: to me it seems only natural for such an ambassador at borderline between hw and sw to also do some communication to community about both domains
Jul 08 00:23:42 <DocScrutinizer05> and filter and channel feedback and questions from community to devels
Jul 08 00:23:53 <SpeedEvil> Logical.
Jul 08 00:24:58 <DocScrutinizer05> let's hope somebody at jolla sees this the same we both do ;-)
Jul 08 01:09:43 * RST38h loves, loves, loves Synology
Jul 08 01:10:25 <RST38h> It is the small-server version of N900! =)
Jul 08 01:12:37 <GeneralAntilles> I've got an SS4200 with FreeNAS 8.
Jul 08 01:12:39 <GeneralAntilles> I hate it.
Jul 08 01:14:32 <RST38h> a moment, general
Jul 08 01:15:04 <RiD> halt, hammerzeit
Jul 08 01:15:22 <RST38h> General: Test-drive this: http://www.synology.com/products/dsm_livedemo.php?lang=us
Jul 08 01:17:38 <RST38h> In my case, running on this: http://www.synology.com/products/product.php?product_name=DS212%2B
Jul 08 01:20:02 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, that is awesome.
Jul 08 01:20:25 <RST38h> exactly
Jul 08 01:20:40 <RST38h> and scary because it is all js
Jul 08 01:20:48 <GeneralAntilles> Why didn't I know about this. . . .
Jul 08 01:22:03 <RiD> i dropped my n900 on my head
Jul 08 01:22:14 <RiD> my nose man
Jul 08 01:22:21 <RiD> face* not head
Jul 08 01:25:20 * SpeedEvil sets up SIP on his phone for the first time.
Jul 08 01:25:40 <SpeedEvil> I realised my ISP has free SIP, and I can drop to teh low-user package on my phone proveder, and save!
Jul 08 01:25:50 <RiD> :o
Jul 08 01:55:35 <RiD> SpeedEvil: i got free 1GB monthly internet from my operator. no fees no disadvantages. Envy that!
Jul 08 01:56:27 <cehteh> sounds like you are not in europe and not in US
Jul 08 02:03:56 <RiD> lol. Europe
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 08 02:59:58 2012