**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 09 02:59:58 2012 Jul 09 08:27:13 new u-boot version 2012.04-2 which can generate omap atag, see: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 Jul 09 08:32:11 ...excellant. Jul 09 08:35:28 freemangordon: ping Jul 09 09:21:15 vi__:pong Jul 09 09:22:16 goofy´ Jul 09 09:27:45 email? Jul 09 09:28:18 also what is this microb engine thumb2 you have compiled? Jul 09 09:28:23 Is that browserd? Jul 09 09:29:49 http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/278/550/82f.jpg Jul 09 09:30:48 <_freemangordon> damn, stupid inet Jul 09 09:30:57 <_freemangordon> [12:25] vi__: no Jul 09 09:44:43 Pali, just built it with GCC 4.7 under e-d, and it is nice. Jul 09 09:45:02 one question, why is kernel name for first entry static "2.6.28-omap1"? Jul 09 09:45:33 I think it should read attached kernel's name, as appended in uImage Jul 09 09:46:41 Hurrian, for compiling u-boot I'm using arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu5) Jul 09 09:47:19 default first entry is attached kernel image to u-boot which is default pr13 Jul 09 09:47:25 freemangordon: You mentioned on the forum you have compiled microb engine with thumb2. Jul 09 09:47:31 yep Jul 09 09:47:37 I assume you mean browserd? Jul 09 09:47:45 no, microb-engine Jul 09 09:47:51 I'm trying to recover a SIP password from the device - http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=82855 refers to a tool called mc-tool - this is not on my device - and apt-get doesn't work Jul 09 09:47:58 oh, I thought they were one and the same. Jul 09 09:48:31 vi__: browsed itself is some 100k, but it loads libxul.so, that is a part of microb-engine Jul 09 09:48:47 I thought browserd was the rendering engine and messaging, microb etc were the clients, as it were. Jul 09 09:48:54 so in that regard they are one and the same Jul 09 09:49:01 ah - nvm Jul 09 09:49:06 apt-get install libmissioncontrol-utils Jul 09 09:49:12 the real browser is microb-engine Jul 09 09:49:46 vi__: you can check /usr/lib/microb-engine Jul 09 09:50:01 ty Jul 09 09:50:15 also, how does camera-ui2 work? Where is the binary? Jul 09 09:50:25 browserd is just a user of libgtkmozembed, which wraps libxul Jul 09 09:50:38 "/usr/bin" Jul 09 09:51:42 so camera-ui IS in fact camera-ui2? Jul 09 09:51:48 yep Jul 09 09:51:58 ah hah! Jul 09 09:52:26 (assuming you have CSSU-testing or CSSU-thumb installed :P) Jul 09 09:52:35 ofc! Jul 09 09:52:59 I roll with all the wacky testing shit! Jul 09 09:53:13 man, you're brave :D Jul 09 09:53:50 Well I find in general I have the linuxz skillz to troubleshoot my own system. Jul 09 09:54:02 mostly... Jul 09 09:54:12 * freemangordon is going afk Jul 09 09:54:19 bbl, bye Jul 09 09:54:24 ~bbl Jul 09 09:54:24 hmm... bbl is be back later Jul 09 09:54:39 SpeedEvil: nice Jul 09 09:55:03 SpeedEvil: I just wonder wtf it stores the password Jul 09 09:55:59 freemangordon, all the wacky testing shit is stable enough for me ;) Jul 09 09:57:20 SpeedEvil: btw your URL is another instance of evidence that this DNS setup is evil - how comes even in 2012 we still refer to http://forums.internettablettalk.com/ rather than tmo Jul 09 09:58:20 DocScrutinizer05, pretty soon iirc we're going to have to refer to ITT again Jul 09 09:58:38 that's if the maemo.org domain isn't transfered Jul 09 10:02:54 did anyone else notice nokia suite is a colossal pile of shit? Jul 09 10:03:12 Hurrian: I still fail to see why anything regarding tmo should change Jul 09 10:03:32 vi__: ORLY? ;-P Jul 09 10:03:40 money, etc. Jul 09 10:03:47 vi__, no shit? Jul 09 10:03:59 it's pretty basic and non-power-user and BUGGY with the custom skinning Jul 09 10:04:06 what's wrong with money? Jul 09 10:04:13 It has no logs. Jul 09 10:04:36 DocScrutinizer05: a shortage in the near future, the way M.O's running Jul 09 10:04:41 IPv6 support thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85357 Jul 09 10:04:46 with ICD2 ipv6 plugin Jul 09 10:04:54 I don't mind whether council collects funding for Reggie/tmo or for any new server somebody hires somewhere Jul 09 10:04:59 easy, auction 5 N950s. Jul 09 10:05:15 prune the shite. Jul 09 10:05:50 actually I'd prefer to pay Reggie for his expense to run tmo the way it is, to migrating everything to new location and infra Jul 09 10:08:02 and for domain I'd hope Nokia either keeps it and keeps it functional, or will free it so e.g. council can grab the domain for like 10$/year Jul 09 10:08:28 Things I hate #494 - Configuration dialogs with noncanonical names for fields. Jul 09 10:08:51 SIP has been especial fun for this. Jul 09 10:08:56 honestly I haven't heard sound reasoning why anything regarding talk.maemo.org must change Jul 09 10:09:06 except who's paying Jul 09 10:09:45 SpeedEvil: wait til you eneter something to "display name" - you never again delete that Jul 09 10:10:21 only way to recover: delete whole account and redo from scratch Jul 09 10:10:37 nice bug Jul 09 10:10:55 This is basically to use my free SIP connection from my ISP, and to drop to 'low user' on my phone. Jul 09 10:11:02 Which saves some pounds a year. Jul 09 10:13:31 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how lazy one can get, hasn't ever opened a ticket against that "SIP configuration dialog: can't delete content of 'display name' field" Jul 09 10:13:36 kernel-power v51 for testing: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1234313&postcount=445 Jul 09 10:13:54 Pali: \o/ Jul 09 10:14:26 Pali: is this already with switchable thumb workaround? Jul 09 10:14:34 yes Jul 09 10:14:37 cooool Jul 09 10:14:46 thumb is from cssu-kernel Jul 09 10:14:48 default? Jul 09 10:14:58 on or off? Jul 09 10:15:52 default should be on Jul 09 10:16:02 yep, I think so too Jul 09 10:16:05 there was no problem in cssu-kernel Jul 09 10:16:40 otherwise you might face problems with booting a massively thumbified system Jul 09 10:19:21 oh wow, that's nice. time to reuse builder.py again, it seems Jul 09 10:34:10 wait, is kp51 compatable with thumb2 binaries? Jul 09 10:35:38 And does this new bq2415x module finally allow us to eliminate bme for charging? Jul 09 10:36:06 BME does more than charging. Jul 09 10:36:24 It also has various interfaces tot he rest of the stack that tell it about battery state Jul 09 10:37:16 you'll also nee hald-addon-bme to use that bq2415x module Jul 09 10:37:20 need* Jul 09 10:37:39 I'm sure the product brief had somewhere in it 'make the OS dependant on an interrelated tightly coupled mesh of binaries, talking over undefined interfaces, for muddy reasons'. Jul 09 10:37:47 So I still cannot get away without bme? Jul 09 10:38:13 until then you're no way better regarding substitution of bme than you were with charge21.sh Jul 09 10:38:40 -_- Jul 09 10:39:25 charging will work but system has no clue about battery state etc Jul 09 10:39:38 DocScrutinizer05: that is irrelevant to me. Jul 09 10:40:17 well, then you could've get rid of bme since.... 2 years already Jul 09 10:41:19 since charging worked since very first POC for bq24150 charging mode of ShadowJK&me Jul 09 10:41:24 what I want is charging when I plug in the charger and NO bme. Jul 09 10:41:37 System knowing battery level is irrelevant. Jul 09 10:41:47 that's exactly what charge21.sh does since 2 years Jul 09 10:42:20 But it runs relentlessly in the background chewing up CPU cycles. Jul 09 10:42:32 ShadowJK never used bme since as long Jul 09 10:42:47 pfff, guess what bme does! Jul 09 10:43:24 thats why I want rid of BME! Jul 09 10:43:39 I want somthing that does not spam the I2C bus like a douche. Jul 09 10:43:57 well, desolder the bq24150 then, replace it by a linear regulator Jul 09 10:44:12 vi__: found someone with some C skills to complete my FOSS replacement Jul 09 10:44:22 *find Jul 09 10:45:31 * freemangordon is afk again Jul 09 10:45:34 vi__: it's really not a big issue. Jul 09 10:45:38 vi__: during charging the bq24150 *needs* service every ~10s Jul 09 10:45:50 vi__: the power usage is almost zero on discharge. Jul 09 10:45:52 that's utterly lightweight Jul 09 10:46:08 vi__: I'd guesstimate at perhaps an extra half milliamp. Jul 09 10:46:24 vi__: during unplugged from charger you need to listen to sysfs node signalling vbus = 1 Jul 09 10:46:54 Perhaps 10% more standby battery life - approaching 7 days not 6 in the ideal case. Jul 09 10:47:06 vi__: you *might* find a way so kernel signals this state change and thus your script/process may sleep all the time Jul 09 10:48:11 vi__: ...or you simply accept that checking sys/*/*/*/vbus every 10 or 30s is not a big deal even when done in a while sleep 30; do... loop Jul 09 10:49:26 regrarding this particular detail the bq2415x.ko might actually be better than charge21.sh Jul 09 10:49:51 since it's already kernel, so might easily get to know about state changes in vbus Jul 09 10:52:24 what's this charger thing? Jul 09 10:52:41 kerio: you don't wanna know ;-D Jul 09 10:53:18 ...no Jul 09 10:53:21 i want to know Jul 09 10:53:26 that's why i asked, "what's this charger thing?" Jul 09 10:53:32 anything that removes the need for BME is good Jul 09 10:53:57 which it evidently fails to accomplish yet Jul 09 10:54:01 (also, how do you completely remove bme without tripping the watchdog?) Jul 09 10:54:12 ??? Jul 09 10:54:17 stop bme Jul 09 10:54:53 or what do you mean by "completely remove"? Jul 09 10:55:15 won't the watchdog freak out if there's no running bme? Jul 09 10:55:23 no Jul 09 10:55:32 ...what does watchdog even do? Jul 09 10:56:02 as bme or initctl/upstart tells watchdog to no longer monitor bme, when you run "stop bme" Jul 09 10:57:31 oic Jul 09 10:57:37 what happens if you don't run watchdog? Jul 09 10:59:00 nothing Jul 09 10:59:28 modulo I don't really know what you mean by "don't run watchdog" Jul 09 10:59:43 kerio: lol, wtf r u on abut? Jul 09 11:00:04 vi__: usual Jul 09 11:00:07 watchdog is an utube app. It is for making tweets on ur facebook pag. Jul 09 11:00:11 vi__: idk, my bff jill Jul 09 11:00:42 stop that, gives me nausea Jul 09 11:00:44 hm, does backupmenu run bme? Jul 09 11:00:51 no Jul 09 11:00:52 i mean, can you use it to charge the battery? Jul 09 11:00:54 aww :( Jul 09 11:00:59 it runs charge21.sh Jul 09 11:01:03 kerio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchdog_timer Jul 09 11:01:06 oh so you can, neat Jul 09 11:01:14 so yes, it charges battery ;-) Jul 09 11:01:35 does charge21.sh do the same things bme does? Jul 09 11:01:43 no Jul 09 11:01:49 kerio: however the prefered maemo term is 'tickling' the watchdog. Jul 09 11:01:49 i thought bme also reported shit to the kernel wrt charge status and stuff like that Jul 09 11:01:55 it doesn't talk to hald-addon-bme Jul 09 11:02:10 vi__: it makes it sound much cuter than it is Jul 09 11:02:13 see above Jul 09 11:02:21 i see Jul 09 11:04:11 a DOG? I prefer the term "kick the watchdog" Jul 09 11:04:24 ;-P Jul 09 11:04:45 that makes it sound much more violent than it is Jul 09 11:06:00 kerio: no Jul 09 11:06:51 ced117[-]: FYI, your hostname cloak didn't work properly - you joined channels before the cloak was applied Jul 09 11:07:15 if the purpose of the cloak is to hide your IP, you should fix it Jul 09 11:07:18 hehe, quite usual Jul 09 11:08:07 use server password auth Jul 09 11:08:19 indeed Jul 09 11:15:56 How to migrate from kernel-cssu2 to kp51 in a clean way? Jul 09 11:16:31 I mean normally I would use the remove kp in launcher then apt-get remove the kernel packages Jul 09 11:16:46 MrPingu, if you are using u-boot with bootmenu just install -bootimg package Jul 09 11:16:47 MrPingu: You mean kp51-so fucking hot it is not even in a repo-alpha-0.001? Jul 09 11:17:19 Nah I don't use uboot ;) Jul 09 11:17:28 Pali: Does kp51 have FMG thumb patches? Jul 09 11:17:42 yes it has ;) Jul 09 11:18:17 MrPingu: i think you have to wait for freemangordon, because kernel-cssu is pulled in by some deps Jul 09 11:18:21 at least, i think it is Jul 09 11:18:48 So, in short, if you have installed a bunch of thumb binaries, they should work with kp51. Jul 09 11:19:13 Vi__, I guess that's why I wanted to migrate to kp ;) Jul 09 11:20:18 Anyway, removing kernel-cssu2 first and then to kp51 didn't seem very well because of thumb :P Jul 09 11:20:36 That's why I asked here, just to be sure ;) Jul 09 11:20:45 removing a kernel seems a silly idea anyway Jul 09 11:21:01 DocScrutinizer05: you don't remove a kernel, you remove its installer Jul 09 11:21:10 but yeah, modules should stay until you booted the new kernel Jul 09 11:21:31 MrPingu: it's not like you uninstall kernel-cssu2 and you're suddenly without a kernel Jul 09 11:21:43 PSA: cssu-thumb depends on kernel-cssu in apt Jul 09 11:21:51 that's silly :c Jul 09 11:22:01 anyone mind making a dummy kernel-cssu-modules and kernel-cssu-flasher package? Jul 09 11:22:05 Hurrian: are you sure it depends on kernel-cssu? Jul 09 11:22:14 trying to remove it removes fremantle-pr Jul 09 11:22:18 kerio: just because we had no kernel-feature-errata-430973-workaround Jul 09 11:22:30 and not on kernel-feature-errdammit DocScrutinizer Jul 09 11:22:58 hmm, it should probably depend on kernel-feature-errate-omgtimessedupbigtime Jul 09 11:23:04 how does apt choose a package depending on Provides metapackages? Jul 09 11:23:21 no, how are they called? Jul 09 11:23:34 I guess it will be better if we wait for SSU-thumb update from FMG and then migrate to kp51 :) (atleast for me) Jul 09 11:24:12 somebody recently mentioned in here he's always editing the dependency-database of apt manually ;-D Jul 09 11:24:32 MrPingu, kp51's running nice here for me Jul 09 11:25:08 Hmm I guess i want to learn to use u-boot Jul 09 11:26:18 is NOLO open? Jul 09 11:26:30 of course if you simply rm kernel-thumb and force KP51 to install, apt will think kernel-cssu feature still satisfied Jul 09 11:26:46 kerio: no Jul 09 11:26:58 DocScrutinizer05: oh, so it depends on the errata feature, not the actual package at least - phew Jul 09 11:27:05 DocScrutinizer05: why the fuck not? :( Jul 09 11:27:14 nfc :-( Jul 09 11:27:40 probably because there's some gfx init stuff in there that's not free Jul 09 11:28:15 or maybe it's for same reason as flasher-3.5 also being a blob Jul 09 11:28:32 DocScrutinizer05: becasue no one can be assed going through the legal hoops to open it. Jul 09 11:28:33 whatever that reason might be then Jul 09 11:28:48 vi__: probably Jul 09 11:28:57 I am a bit confused,: how to install u-boot (with bootmenu safely) Jul 09 11:29:13 As I have said. Nokia, just dump the source on megaupload (or whatever) anonomously and we will take it from there. Jul 09 11:29:31 There's a thread on TMO from Pali, and there's a version in the repositories Jul 09 11:29:33 :nod: Jul 09 11:29:48 DocScrutinizer05: http://www.rebuy.de/i,1845826/handy/nokia-n900-black Jul 09 11:30:15 chem|st: thanks Jul 09 11:30:31 but used and a tad too expensive Jul 09 11:30:33 MrPingu, Pali's one in post is newer Jul 09 11:30:41 I'm running it right now, and it works just fine. Jul 09 11:30:45 I see :) Jul 09 11:30:46 vi__: megaupload?! Jul 09 11:30:49 DocScrutinizer05: 18month warranty Jul 09 11:30:56 :nod: Jul 09 11:31:08 whatever that means Jul 09 11:31:16 If you have kp51, I can send you a combined.bin ready to flash via softupd --local && flasher -f -k combined.bin --local Jul 09 11:31:47 DocScrutinizer05: afaik megaupload doesn't exist anymore Jul 09 11:31:55 wtf is softupd? Jul 09 11:31:55 I am also reading here that pali's uboot will overwrite my kernel in NAND, so I need to have kp51 bootimage first, right? Jul 09 11:32:06 (whops wrong person) Jul 09 11:32:12 MrPingu, not really Jul 09 11:32:14 nah, ok Jul 09 11:32:21 FallenWarlock: megaupload== Jul 09 11:32:21 if your /home is ext3 it's fine Jul 09 11:32:33 if not, it'll be slightly annoying to select new kernel on boot Jul 09 11:32:40 kerio, softupd is nokia proprierary daemon for flashing nand on n900 Jul 09 11:32:50 it also flash emmc image Jul 09 11:32:58 wait, *on* the n900? Jul 09 11:33:09 MrPingu, install u-boot and then -bootimg kernel package and then reboot Jul 09 11:33:11 Hurrian, I am on thumb so I need errata workarounds in kernel ;) Jul 09 11:33:18 kerio, yes on n900 Jul 09 11:33:41 kerio: you can flash kernel or nolo directly on n900 without pc Jul 09 11:33:44 isn't the nand kinda... used? Jul 09 11:33:48 oh, kernel and nolo Jul 09 11:33:50 i see Jul 09 11:33:52 MrPingu, use a kernel-power attached uboot on n900 Jul 09 11:33:58 MrPingu: uBoot is a patch attached to default kernel in NAND kernel partition. NOLO thinks it loads kernel but in fact loads uBoot first Jul 09 11:34:01 u-boot does not replace nolo! Jul 09 11:34:25 and if you want to flash eMMC, flasher-3.5 will tell n900 to boot into flashing mode and n900 start softupd Jul 09 11:34:42 and then flasher will send eMMC image to softupd and softupd will write it to eMMC Jul 09 11:34:44 MrPingu: uBoot in turn either starts the adjacent kernel (stock nokia kernel afaik) or any of the additional kernel images sitting somewhere in /home or whatever location Jul 09 11:35:22 * MrPingu is learning, thanks guys :D Jul 09 11:36:00 ping lxp Jul 09 11:36:15 hi Jul 09 11:36:45 lxp, kernel-power v51 has packet injection modules included in /opt/... Jul 09 11:36:59 Pali: only wifi though, right? Jul 09 11:37:07 MrPingu: with a thumb system you shouldn't probably use uBoot as you need the thumb workaround in kernel. No use in booting any other kernel Jul 09 11:37:08 only wifi Jul 09 11:37:42 DocScrutinizer05, u-boot can boot other systems like ubuntu Jul 09 11:37:42 Pali: linux-backports-modules-power has the whole of compat-wireless Jul 09 11:37:45 including bluetooth Jul 09 11:37:54 Pali: ack, forgot Jul 09 11:38:12 kerio, but bluetooth modules which is not for rx51 hw :-) Jul 09 11:38:28 anyway the stock kernel attached to uBoot is basically useless Jul 09 11:38:44 if you got thumb system Jul 09 11:39:22 DocScrutinizer05, more people report that their MyDocs (where are stored kernels) are no readable by u-boot Jul 09 11:39:34 problems was with BAD formating (maybe windows) Jul 09 11:39:43 after mkfs.vfat all was ok Jul 09 11:40:08 DocScrutinizer05, I know but actually I am tempted to try nemo-mobile too ;) Jul 09 11:40:12 Pali: (softupd) it's also used to 'loopback' USB to 127.0.0.1 on N900, for flashing kernels on board Jul 09 11:40:44 as kernel-falsher also uses flasher-3.5 maemo build version afaik Jul 09 11:41:02 DocScrutinizer05, so if you erase MyDocs, you have no bootable kernel - so fallback attached kernel is usefull Jul 09 11:41:29 pali: you know that i don't consider the injection driver final, but it's probably the best thing to do as it looks like i won't have enough time to get the packet injection patches into official kernel... Jul 09 11:41:33 Pali: not if it doesn't work with your thumbified system Jul 09 11:41:50 DocScrutinizer05: it only has to work with backupmenu :) Jul 09 11:41:56 indeed Jul 09 11:42:18 kerio: good point Jul 09 11:42:24 freemangordon: does cssu-thumb thumbify stuff that's used by backupmenu? Jul 09 11:42:37 backupmenu will work and can export eMMC via USB Jul 09 11:42:43 damn, I hope NOT Jul 09 11:42:59 so you can copy here kernels and u-boot can boot it Jul 09 11:43:09 fine Jul 09 11:43:15 DocScrutinizer05, fix is easy: make "Backupmenu OS" Jul 09 11:43:24 also backupmenu is started by fanoush bootmenu Jul 09 11:43:37 and fanoush bootmenu has support for mass storage mode too Jul 09 11:44:20 lxp, you sent some patches to mailinglist last year Jul 09 11:44:30 was something upstreamed? Jul 09 11:45:28 pali: yes but only the bugfixes and some feature ports, but no packet injection patches Jul 09 11:45:48 ok Jul 09 11:45:59 what's wrong with the injection drivers, btw? Jul 09 11:46:00 lxp, what was problems with packet injection patches? Jul 09 11:46:07 why aren't they good enough for normal use too? Jul 09 11:46:26 lxp: I just an hour ago wondered how things ended for your unpaid work on injection Jul 09 11:46:50 after sending the patches to the kernel mailing list i invested much time to rewrite the packet injection part, but i haven't finished it Jul 09 11:47:12 lxp: did you finally get fair payment from users buying the packet? Jul 09 11:48:12 yes my previous development for neopwn was financed by the users Jul 09 11:48:15 or was it a big fail when you did your ballance at end of year? Jul 09 11:48:59 aah, good to hear it turned out to be ok in the end for you :-) Jul 09 11:52:36 yeah i was glad that it worked, but it also was a hard decision for me to go that way, because i think it should have been publicly available from the start Jul 09 11:53:15 I never had problems with the approach you've chosen Jul 09 11:54:00 I think it been as fair as it could get Jul 09 11:54:07 lxp, is wl1251-cal tool working with packet-injection driver? Jul 09 11:55:08 or is ifconfig wlan0 hw ether needed for setting correct mac address? Jul 09 11:55:53 the binary version of wl1251-cal should work with the driver version 0.2 Jul 09 11:56:00 this is the major change between 0.1 and 0.2 Jul 09 11:56:22 nice Jul 09 11:56:29 lxp, and other question: can be packet injection driver used for normal everyday wifi work? Jul 09 11:56:43 or is there some known problems? Jul 09 11:57:16 i am not aware of any problems, but i don't use the 0.2 driver myself Jul 09 11:57:42 i wouldn't recommend it, because it is based on some old wireless-testing Jul 09 11:57:52 so there may be unfixed bugs in the wireless stack Jul 09 11:58:23 guess how many bugfixes are in stock drivers ;-) Jul 09 11:58:25 also maemo wl1251 is based on old wireless stack from kernel 2.6.28 Jul 09 11:58:47 or that ^^^ Jul 09 11:58:51 yeah but it is at least from an official kernel release, the driver is based on the development branch Jul 09 11:59:06 mhm Jul 09 12:01:18 i am personally using a version of the driver based on a little bit newer wireless-testing with some rewritten patches i made after submitting the patches to the kernel mailinglist, but it doesn't contain the injection patches Jul 09 12:01:18 does jolly meego mean, we'll install jollymeego on our n900 at the end of the year? Jul 09 12:03:18 grammoboy: hell naw Jul 09 12:03:43 kerio, sorry? Jul 09 12:04:15 it's jollamobile Jul 09 12:04:17 I, for one, would be prepared to pay for a useful upgrade to n900 software. Jul 09 12:05:32 SpeedEvil: practical issue is that hw blobs say 'not for commercial redistribution' Jul 09 12:06:03 Now I'm writing shell script for loading packet injection drivers Jul 09 12:06:03 * vi__ waves to Stskeeps Jul 09 12:06:15 m00. Jul 09 12:06:21 Stskeeps: Yeah - I meant a blob free solution Jul 09 12:08:08 "Jolla has confirmed that it will not handle maintenance or further development of Maemo/MeeGo devices released by Nokia such as the aforementioned N900/N9/N950" Jul 09 12:09:01 And yes. That too. Jul 09 12:11:30 ok that's doesn't seems to be good news for the n900 users, good news but not practical for them Jul 09 12:12:23 ...another tablet. Jul 09 12:12:27 boring. Jul 09 12:13:03 tablet, what Jul 09 12:13:04 ? Jul 09 12:13:04 :P Jul 09 12:14:07 vi__: ms showed their tablets Jul 09 12:14:23 wonder if foxxxconn makes them Jul 09 12:14:54 I know you know something Stskeeps. Jul 09 12:15:11 But I also know that now you know that I know you Know somthing you won't tell. Jul 09 12:15:35 jolla isn't tablet Jul 09 12:15:36 :P Jul 09 12:15:50 Stskeeps: it is an OS right? Jul 09 12:16:05 no, it's a company Jul 09 12:16:08 go read the press release Jul 09 12:16:41 My point still stands. Tablets suck and are for noobz. Jul 09 12:18:58 Macer: tablets have been on offer for over a decade. They still suck. Jul 09 12:19:13 You just cannot enter data in an efficient way. Jul 09 12:19:56 vi__: not one uses the ubiquitous calendar interface? Jul 09 12:20:12 (the n900 doesn't :( ) Jul 09 12:20:14 vi__: voice can in some cases be OK Jul 09 12:21:09 vi__: I saw a customs-taskforce documentary yesterday, they made good use of tablets in briefings... and I know some other usecases I'd want a tablet for but a 3.6GHzquadcore with dedicated SOTA graphics... Jul 09 12:21:14 vi__ tablets do not suck. They don't have a mouth Jul 09 12:22:02 ~gentoosmite RiD Jul 09 12:22:03 * infobot spends 6 days recompiling RiD, and when it's all done, RiD runs no faster than previously Jul 09 12:22:59 vi__: heh... guess that's a fair point Jul 09 12:23:14 thumb keyboards make it easier but you're right. they still suck Jul 09 12:23:31 i have a transformer and it spends its time in the keyboard dock 90% of the time Jul 09 12:23:45 I've been wondering about hacks. Jul 09 12:24:10 Tablet + screen cover made as a fake keyboard + internal camera on the tablet watching the fingers. Jul 09 12:24:31 the tablet needs to hold itself in the air so you could type on the keyboard with all your fingers Jul 09 12:24:40 i hate being limited to 70wpm on tablets Jul 09 12:24:44 RiD: Quadcopter. Jul 09 12:25:03 haha Jul 09 12:25:28 That would also solve the problem of accidental drops. Jul 09 12:25:48 speedevil, as a replacement to touch-screen kbd? Jul 09 12:26:01 yes Jul 09 12:26:10 SpeedEvil how about the erm, how it is called, propeller? Jul 09 12:26:16 What* Jul 09 12:26:26 Accidental hits on it would cause flying eyes Jul 09 12:26:32 I suppose it would have the benefit of not using screen area, but detecting 'presses' reliably might turn out to be quite a trick. Jul 09 12:26:36 RiD: I was not being serious. Jul 09 12:26:45 SpeedEvil i am Jul 09 12:26:50 RiD: In practice, that would have probably insoluble problems. Jul 09 12:26:55 ALWAYS Jul 09 12:27:00 probably a more working solution - if you need a 'fake keyboard' in the first place - is to overlay a touch surface to the keyboard Jul 09 12:27:11 of course, not as hacky and cool. Jul 09 12:27:14 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1536586/derparound/das/goobytheftauto.png Jul 09 12:27:15 RiD: Propellors to provide (say) 250 grams of thust are neither quiet or low power. Jul 09 12:27:31 flux: That involves considerable extra hardware. Jul 09 12:27:49 speedevil, is a capacitive or resistive touch surface really that complicated? Jul 09 12:28:00 we need holograms :( Jul 09 12:28:09 speedevil, btw, the camera and signal processing would consume consderable amount of energy Jul 09 12:28:10 flux: yes. Jul 09 12:28:11 RiD: LOL. i was about to say the same Jul 09 12:28:23 flux: For making in small quantities. Jul 09 12:28:48 Macer hell yes. Then all you would have to do is stick a support between your legs and put the hologram device there Jul 09 12:28:50 and bam, hands free Jul 09 12:29:06 or on the waist Jul 09 12:42:50 how does bootmenu work? Jul 09 12:44:35 Sc0rpius: ping Jul 09 12:44:37 via a hook in initscript Jul 09 12:45:42 actually in /sbin/preinit iirc Jul 09 12:46:58 which (again iirc) checks for a file /bootmenu.sh Jul 09 12:47:55 if [ x"$SLIDE_STATE" = "xopen" ] ; then Jul 09 12:47:56 echo_g "slide open, attempting to use bootmenu" Jul 09 12:47:58 [ -f /bootmenu.sh ] && . /bootmenu.sh Jul 09 13:00:06 * freemangordon idly wonders where zeq is and hopes its not something with his grandma Jul 09 13:08:48 if [ x"$SLIDE_STATE" = "xopen" ] ; then Jul 09 13:08:53 ^explain this line Jul 09 13:09:09 specifically the x in x"$SLIDE_STATE" Jul 09 13:10:16 old test (ie [ ) versions would not cope well with empty vars Jul 09 13:10:36 so x before makes sure the argument to test is not empty Jul 09 13:11:31 FWIW, it is also worth sticking you insmod fbcon inside a if slide stare = closed. Jul 09 13:11:46 This stops FB text from vomiting all over backup menu. Jul 09 13:12:22 "$SLIDE_STATE" this will be always non empty because of "" Jul 09 13:12:42 I was explaining the idiom Jul 09 13:12:48 if [ x$var ] .... Jul 09 13:12:48 not the accuracy of that line Jul 09 13:12:55 if [ "$var" ] ... Jul 09 13:13:16 but using if [ x"$var" ] is really stupid :D Jul 09 13:13:58 seems like some shell beginer written this into crytical /sbin/preinit script Jul 09 13:21:12 the correct test should be Jul 09 13:21:27 if [ -z "$foo" ] Jul 09 13:21:36 but I think it's a bashism Jul 09 13:27:50 <_berto_> StyXman: it's not a bashism Jul 09 13:29:41 Oh dear. Just made the mistake of reading TMO. And a thread about the Council at that ;-) Jul 09 13:31:21 Fortunately it ends with sense from woody14619: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1234448#post1234448 Jul 09 13:32:38 Jaffa: feel free to pitch in on my question on how you'd like to see the community around things Jul 09 13:32:56 Stskeeps: Sorry, missed that. URL? Jul 09 13:33:29 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85315 , http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1233937#post1233937 Jul 09 13:35:03 _berto_: yes, I was just checking that Jul 09 13:35:08 dash supports that Jul 09 13:37:44 Stskeeps: Thanks Jul 09 13:38:43 StyXman, test -z is in posix shell, so should work Jul 09 13:38:54 Stskeeps: Didn't immediately see any sensible answers ;-) Jul 09 13:40:11 Jaffa: from my side mostly because i can't say more than what mer can do, and what's in press releases and twitter.. doesn't mean i can't ask people how they feel Jul 09 13:41:14 Stskeeps: Fair point. Jul 09 13:41:38 and get proper inspiration on how we can do this Jul 09 13:41:50 arf you part of Jolla? Jul 09 13:42:05 Corsac: :nod: Jul 09 13:44:37 Stskeeps: I feel hungry. Jul 09 13:44:44 * SpeedEvil goes and gets an omelette. Jul 09 13:44:49 SpeedEvil: me too. and the water isn't working in my apartment. i feel like richard stallman. Jul 09 13:53:28 Stskeeps: what, fat and sassy? Jul 09 13:53:39 vi__: dancing with ze gnus Jul 09 14:08:27 So has *anyone* received their CA device yet? Jul 09 14:26:03 * SpeedEvil discovers a handy race condition. Jul 09 14:26:28 If you start to launch a video, and immediately lock using the switch, the player will play audio with the screen off. Jul 09 14:27:03 (otherwise it pauses on lock) Jul 09 14:27:04 I've sometimes seen the player continue playing after switching away from it Jul 09 14:27:16 but i dont know the exact timings to accomplish that Jul 09 14:28:18 hm, recaller didn't stop a recording when a call ended Jul 09 14:28:21 that's not nice Jul 09 14:36:13 Macer: seems like transformer would be a few magnitudes cooler if yo could run a normal linux on it Jul 09 14:36:40 though "normal linux" seems to be getting much harder to find these days :) Jul 09 14:37:29 what the hell is "normal" linux? Jul 09 14:39:22 like from before gnome/kde/ubuntu became stupid Jul 09 14:39:36 with their unusable fancy guis :0 Jul 09 14:40:55 ShadowJK with jello afks Jul 09 14:40:58 effects* Jul 09 14:41:41 It almost works in fremantle, the effects most of the time dont get in the way or distract Jul 09 14:43:17 ShadowJK: try MATE Jul 09 14:45:07 On my ancient linux desktop install I have xfce with 9x9 virtual desktops and ctrl-cursor to navigate that grid. it's speedy navigation :) Jul 09 14:49:37 ShadowJK: sounds more like a sliding puzzle Jul 09 14:50:35 It's similar to fremantle, except on fremantle i dont have hotkeys other than the "show grid" hotkey of ctrl-backspace Jul 09 14:50:38 15 puzzle, or more like 81 puzzle Jul 09 14:51:05 oops I meant 3x3 :) Jul 09 14:51:13 jajaja, ok Jul 09 14:51:35 ShadowJK: and qwerasdfzxcv to select the window, you mean Jul 09 14:51:40 and QWERASDFZXCV to close the window Jul 09 14:51:49 ShadowJK: if its ancient, I bet it cant do 9x9 with all occupied without swaping all the time :P Jul 09 14:52:22 Q9550 and 8G ram Jul 09 14:52:28 thats not ancient Jul 09 14:52:39 pentiumD Jul 09 14:52:41 with kde plasma it was too slow to be usable Jul 09 14:52:46 :P Jul 09 14:52:57 ShadowJK: thats the GPU probably, Intel GPU? Jul 09 14:53:02 no Jul 09 14:53:30 i meant the os is ancient-ish Jul 09 14:53:36 ah Jul 09 14:53:37 fedora 9 or 10 or something. Jul 09 14:53:48 ShadowJK: seriously, upgrade :P Jul 09 14:54:03 hiemanshu; when I find 2 months spare time Jul 09 14:54:34 ShadowJK: if you find 2 months spare time, install gentoo/arch linux, rolling distro, forget upgrades :P Jul 09 14:56:00 * ShadowJK remembers the horrors of wrangling notworkmanager into working last time he upgraded :/ Jul 09 14:56:34 you can get the same with debian sid Jul 09 14:56:38 Though reading the bugzilla where linus torvalds was also flaming because notworkmanager didn't network was amusing :) Jul 09 14:57:26 Now I've got it behaving pretty nicely, only issue is nfs server dies after hibernate Jul 09 14:59:12 ShadowJK: probably you can upgrade the kernel without much breaking Jul 09 14:59:14 hey all Jul 09 14:59:17 not too much, tho Jul 09 15:05:26 what is stdcam_replacer? Jul 09 15:05:47 * freemangordon feels relaxed, no inet drops for the last 15 minutes :D Jul 09 15:06:06 freemangordon: why would you have inet drops? Jul 09 15:06:12 ShadowJK: seriously nice, simple UI, gnome 2 fork. Task-centric, highly recommended. Jul 09 15:06:28 teotwaki: what is? Jul 09 15:06:33 ShadowJK: try MATE Jul 09 15:06:33 what does task-centric mean? Jul 09 15:06:36 ^ this Jul 09 15:06:48 ShadowJK: openbox-session or gtfo Jul 09 15:06:49 also can someone recmmend a debian based distro that can 'run from ram'? Jul 09 15:07:36 task-centric means that you don't have to use your mouse to switch between windows (as in, windows in your taskbar aren't organised by application type, but actual window instance) Jul 09 15:07:56 aaah. Gnome before it went full retard. Jul 09 15:07:58 the win7, unity and gnome3 window managers are notoriously poor in that regard. Jul 09 15:08:51 vaguely related, anyone know of any bluetooth trackballs? Jul 09 15:09:33 vi__: run from ram as in a hack to a live cd? Jul 09 15:09:46 StyXman: more or less Jul 09 15:09:55 vi__: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions_that_run_from_RAM Jul 09 15:10:05 kinda like knoppix before it got bent. Jul 09 15:10:07 teotwaki: jojo Jul 09 15:10:08 vi__: there was som problem with my cabling/splitters/taps, a guy from my inet provider came and replace a bunch of devices. He promised it will be ok, but I don't believe such kind of technicians ;) Jul 09 15:10:28 well, it looks ok now, indeed Jul 09 15:10:31 vi__: it's not the same from RAM that from CD Jul 09 15:10:32 aaah. Nothing worse than 'non-technical' technicians. Jul 09 15:28:58 DocScrutinizer: "I see possible context switches in IRQ and FIQ as well" wut? Jul 09 15:37:55 [\ Jul 09 15:45:32 Hi i have a silly question.. Why cant meego can be flashed on similar OMAP platform used by nokia such as X6 or N97? are there any attempts made on this? Jul 09 15:45:59 Nokia probably could Jul 09 15:46:16 also N97 isn't omap? Jul 09 15:47:09 But the thing is that those devices are locked, the flashing software for them is secret and not distributed, and the bootloader/cpu will only execute OS that is cryptographically signed by Nokia Jul 09 15:47:32 in other words they've done everything to prevent you from replacing or modifyig the operatihg system. Jul 09 15:47:41 * RST38h moos at Shadowjk Jul 09 15:48:23 jean_brat: It would generally require at least porting in addition. There will be unsupported devices that need to be configured. Jul 09 15:48:41 ok.. first of all.. congradulations for every one here involved in the formation of jolla.. and keep the good work :) Jul 09 15:48:55 This may vary from trivial - for example a new accellerometer driver - to very complex - supporting a new soft-modem. Jul 09 15:49:06 Which might have issues legally with required IP. Jul 09 15:49:26 i assume all the drivers drivers for N900 is same as for X6.. Jul 09 15:49:43 that looks like a very bad assumption Jul 09 15:49:45 Umm... Jul 09 15:49:57 because.. all are TI components .. inside the soc but don know sensors may differ Jul 09 15:50:01 jean_brat: I assume that you wear a dress, and are 18 feet tall, and smell of elderberries. Jul 09 15:51:06 * ShadowJK 'd assume no drivers from N900 work on X6 Jul 09 15:51:39 If the processor is identical - that means it is likely to work. Jul 09 15:51:43 wat? x6=? Jul 09 15:52:10 Unfortunately, there are well over a dozen other chips onboard that need seperately and accurately configured for the device to work. Jul 09 15:52:36 Simply booting the wrong kernel may in principle even damage stuff, as it turns on the wrong things at the wrong voltage. Jul 09 15:52:43 ok.. lets perhaps all of em reqire little or more modification., in order to do so.. hardware details of x6 is open? Jul 09 15:52:49 No. Jul 09 15:53:07 Essentially no phones, with very, very few exceptions have published details. Jul 09 15:53:45 Phones with android source are sort-of-documented if you can actually get source. Jul 09 15:54:21 hmhm, didn't receive any answer to my sources request Jul 09 15:54:43 when TI sells a platform for nokia.. with all the hardware details..and nokia use it on 10 different phones with some variations Jul 09 15:54:50 * ShadowJK thought N97 and X6 were arm11 not cortex 8 based SoC Jul 09 15:55:14 jean_brat: it's not that simple. Jul 09 15:55:21 but basically if we have the datasheet for N900 we should be having stuffs for similar stuffs as well i guess? Jul 09 15:55:25 jean_brat: To make a PC analogy - you're looking at the processor. Jul 09 15:55:42 ok lets consider this way Jul 09 15:55:49 jean_brat: There are a dozen seperate plug-in cards that may be from different vendors, or different versions that will be required to work. Jul 09 15:55:59 And there is no BIOS to help you autoconfigure this. Jul 09 15:56:09 when intel sells a chipset.. Asus uses it on 10 diffenent motherboards Jul 09 15:56:18 It's not a PC. Jul 09 15:56:21 but basically driver is the same correct? Jul 09 15:57:04 Or consider N8x0, TI Omap2, but without knowing what Nokia added you'd not even get working mmc/sd storage, no wifi, no bt, no screen, no sound, no usb Jul 09 15:57:05 PCs have standard chips - mostly - that are designed to conform to one standard. They have a BIOS that configures the board to a state where it will boot, and stuff like ACPI and friends to inform the OS about the hardware. Jul 09 15:57:12 Phones don't. Jul 09 15:57:42 Phones are a bunch of hardware that is connected in random ways that was cheapest - that vary even within a model - and there is no BIOS or anything to tell you how it's configured. Jul 09 15:58:47 Adding to the fun is that some of the required chips may not have documents available unless you purchase a sizeable fraction of a million of them, and sign a NDA. Jul 09 15:59:32 Which NDA may even prohibit you from making open-source drivers using the info. Jul 09 15:59:59 I can confirm this. Jul 09 16:00:03 ok i get it SpeedEvil . as for as the SOC is concerned. there are dozens of stuffs inside Jul 09 16:00:46 but its all TI IP's .. but nokia configures this differently in different mobiles with its boot codes Jul 09 16:00:50 The SoC is the CPU essentially, and the chipset - in PC terms. There are _lots_ of external cards hooked in. Jul 09 16:00:58 It's not all the CPU. Jul 09 16:01:40 Translation.. nokia does not use the same vender mostly? Jul 09 16:01:51 even if you have a completely standard and supported SoC - if you boot a kernel that does not know about the phone - the display won't work, neither will the touchscreen, phone, ... Jul 09 16:02:44 On PC you've got autoconfig and discovery on the PCI(e) busses, the cpu can detect the presence and address of a device on the bus, and even get an identification code so that the os knows what device it is, and can pick an appropriate driver. On phones there's no such luxury. :) Jul 09 16:03:18 Probing can make stuff explode. Jul 09 16:03:23 yes Jul 09 16:03:25 It's back to the days of ISA - but worse. Jul 09 16:04:31 You could have two devices containing the exact same soc, and exact same accelerometer and battery charger (for example), but kernel from one device wont work on the other because the devices are hooked up differently Jul 09 16:04:46 wow.. that was a very convincing explanation.. Jul 09 16:05:01 Thanks for that ShadowJK Jul 09 16:05:07 and SpeedEvil Jul 09 16:05:31 np Jul 09 16:06:35 And heck, there could be devices in out N900 we don't know about. Docscrutinizer has observed bme accessing an i2c bus/address combination that no known devices are on. Either it's a bme bug, or a device we dont know of sits there, or a device we know of is secretly also listening to that address for some unknown function :) Jul 09 16:06:43 in our* Jul 09 16:07:35 hahaha Jul 09 16:07:46 signs point to BME being a piece of crap Jul 09 16:07:52 bme == ? Jul 09 16:08:00 battery management Jul 09 16:08:01 Battery Management Entity or something Jul 09 16:08:08 a closed-source piece of crap Jul 09 16:09:48 how do you probe all these? Jul 09 16:11:01 probe the devices? You don't, because it can be misinterpreted as a command, and can do bad things Jul 09 16:12:06 As for the software bme, you can run it under gdb or strace to try figure out what it does Jul 09 16:13:32 or disassemble it Jul 09 16:13:47 ShadowJK: I assume you know it's that the charge meter doesn't actually care about the high bits of the address? :) Jul 09 16:16:00 I don't remember the details Jul 09 16:16:06 but wtf? Jul 09 16:16:12 Indeed. Jul 09 16:16:26 which bits does it care about? Jul 09 16:17:01 It has registers 0-7 from memory - and if you access register 34, it just aliases to those 7 Jul 09 16:17:02 8 Jul 09 16:17:18 ah Jul 09 16:24:21 is there a way to not get the usb mode dialog? Jul 09 16:41:45 are you all work for nokia? Jul 09 16:42:24 nope. Jul 09 16:43:50 sw professionals i assume? ShadowJK SpeedEvil ? Jul 09 16:44:02 not really Jul 09 16:44:05 hobbyist Jul 09 17:14:03 have a question.when N900 charge full battery,if use not unplug charger, when battery only half ,N900 can't auto start charge,has some terminal command let it start charge? Jul 09 17:17:45 have a question.when N900 charge full battery,if you are not unplug charger, when battery only half ,N900 can't auto start charge,has some terminal command let it start charge? Jul 09 17:20:38 no such problems known Jul 09 17:24:03 with bme your N900 should basically _always_ start charging when you plug in fastcharger, and it shall keep battery at 100% charge as long as plugged to charger. With charge21.sh the bq24150 does all the charging management and restarts charging after stop-on-full only when battery is down to 75% Jul 09 17:25:37 on plugging charger charging is supposed to always start, and unless your battery is actaully 100% full, it will signal amber charging light and icon for a while. Only on 100% full battery it doesn't signal charging when plugging USB fastcharger Jul 09 17:29:29 jean_brat: I'm currently unemployed for health reasons. Jul 09 17:31:14 ohh.. am sorry SpeedEvil Jul 09 17:37:34 is it very difficult to get USB keyboard and mouse working on N900 with the help of belkin multiport adopter? Jul 09 17:40:40 no Jul 09 17:41:11 moderately difficult, for beginners Jul 09 17:45:16 cool.. i have the belkin adopter. need to buy a spare keyboard and mouse.. Jul 09 17:45:43 DocScrutinizer, you know the steps you can guide me when i am ready? Jul 09 17:46:29 it's all in talk.maemo.org Jul 09 17:47:06 sorry, no precice link atm here Jul 09 17:47:58 thanks to vandalism also the bot has no link anymore Jul 09 17:48:41 say "thanks you, estel!" Jul 09 17:50:14 thank you, estel! Jul 09 17:50:23 well, let's try ... Jul 09 17:50:31 ~hostmode-powered Jul 09 17:50:31 extra, extra, read all about it, hostmode-powered is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 Jul 09 17:54:40 jean_brat: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=866309&postcount=9 you find some useful links to youtube videos and tmo threads Jul 09 17:55:30 particularly http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65570 Jul 09 17:57:58 is http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/genuine-samsung-galaxy-s3-s2-note-micro-usb-to-usb-converter-p29425.htm this the cool hostmode adapter for n900? Jul 09 17:58:05 15£ is quite expensive Jul 09 18:00:08 bluetooth keybord mouse are faster then USB connected via HUB ? in N900 Jul 09 18:01:19 i have a belkin hub which is also powered externally as well Jul 09 18:07:31 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=872844&postcount=17 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=873530&postcount=27 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=874074&postcount=34 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=875849&postcount=51 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=883873&postcount=65 ... Jul 09 18:12:09 jean_brat: you'll anyway need a special F-F-adapter or cable with usb B plugs on both ends Jul 09 18:12:31 otherwise your cables won't fit Jul 09 18:12:55 or rather, will fit but to the wrong receptacle of hub Jul 09 18:15:11 generally speaking: if you can't plug an external HDD directly to the N900 with your cables, you are missing an adapter. Hub won't help then Jul 09 18:16:04 well, read the thread I linked you to, that detail is mentioned there in at least 100 posts Jul 09 18:18:47 http://www.belkin.com/in/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=534950 Jul 09 18:18:54 this is what i have Jul 09 18:20:12 and that's a hub Jul 09 18:20:41 please re-read my last 5 posts Jul 09 18:22:20 jean_brat: special performance just for you: plug your CA-157 cable that comes with N900. On other end you see a flat rectangle plug (A-plug) Jul 09 18:22:36 now try plugging that plug to your belkin hub Jul 09 18:22:48 if you succeeded you did it wrong! Jul 09 18:23:09 it has to go into the one receptacle at hub where it DOESNT fit Jul 09 18:23:57 thus you neede an adapter Jul 09 18:24:07 i am confused Jul 09 18:24:41 just do what I told you Jul 09 18:25:05 I can't see how you get confused by that Jul 09 18:25:57 so please ask precise questions when any of the 4(?) steps above turns out to be unclear Jul 09 18:26:48 you watched that recommended youtube video? Jul 09 18:28:16 seems my estimation of "moderately complicated, for beginners" been off the point Jul 09 18:29:48 please watch this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ&NR=1 you won't need any translation ;-) Jul 09 18:34:12 no English version of this? Jul 09 18:35:34 damn! english version of italian yaggediyagg? what for? ;-P Jul 09 18:36:07 why cant i directly connect the micro usb cable came with the box to the hub? Jul 09 18:36:14 our easern european members wouldn't need more than 4 words to say the same XP Jul 09 18:36:44 because it fits to downstream receptacles of hub Jul 09 18:36:57 but N900 is upstream aka host here Jul 09 18:37:38 as the name "usb HOSTmode" might make you guess Jul 09 18:37:59 hmm Jul 09 18:38:27 on USB you always got ONE host and one or more peripherals Jul 09 18:38:27 since i don understand his language.. what exactly i need here? Jul 09 18:38:59 your N900 CAQ-157 cable is for N900 playing peripheral role when plugging it to PC *HOST* Jul 09 18:39:37 on HOST mode the N900 is the HOST Jul 09 18:39:55 i get it DocScrutinizer so how does this conversion happens? Jul 09 18:39:59 so you have to plug in the N900 as if it were a PC Jul 09 18:41:09 with a F-F adapter as shown http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fkCDyUO0sKQ#t=40s Jul 09 18:41:33 slave --- --? ?? Jul 09 18:44:36 so F&F will make downstreem device into Upstream device? Jul 09 18:46:07 Even a 3rd party micro usb will not make it as a master(upstream device) >? Jul 09 18:46:52 ohh i am sorry i am asking too many questions.. is there any document which describes this? Jul 09 18:47:05 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 #1 by MohammadAG: "You will need to a female to female USB adapter, and the stock USB cable." ->http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-cable-coupler-extension-connector-2646 Jul 09 18:47:33 PRETTY PLEASE read(!) this post Jul 09 18:48:06 even Jul 09 18:49:09 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 #1 by MohammadAG: "You will need to a female to female USB adapter, and the stock USB cable." Jul 09 18:51:06 ooops, stock nokia cable is CA-101 not CA-157 Jul 09 18:51:21 (not that this matters) Jul 09 18:52:35 theoretically how does F&F converter make a master as Slave? Jul 09 18:52:50 or slave as host Jul 09 18:53:11 it doesn't Jul 09 18:53:27 h-e-n does that for N900 Jul 09 18:53:36 turning it into a HOST Jul 09 18:53:49 aka master, in your terminology Jul 09 18:54:32 i ripped the usb thingy from a broken motherboard ;D Jul 09 18:54:49 so h e n detects this bridge and make the device as master Jul 09 18:55:08 the whole point is: N900 is designed as peripheral (slave), but with H-E-N we turn it into a host. Alas it still has a usb receptacle that says "I'm a peripheral" so you need the F-F adapter Jul 09 18:55:10 it doesn't detect shit, actually Jul 09 18:55:12 it just makes it so Jul 09 18:56:17 you need both a strap-on dildo and the willingness to use it Jul 09 18:56:20 indeed Jul 09 18:56:36 h-e-n is the willingness Jul 09 18:56:48 as soon as you start h-e-n (and activate vbus) the N900 turns into a USB host Jul 09 18:57:13 so what does F&F does? Jul 09 18:57:22 except for receptacle which we can't control per software ;-P Jul 09 18:57:32 *sigh* Jul 09 18:57:34 the F-F adapter is the strap-on dildo Jul 09 18:57:44 hehe, exactly Jul 09 18:57:57 although it's kinda the converse Jul 09 18:58:02 it's like a double fleshlight Jul 09 18:58:14 but that's just confusing Jul 09 18:58:30 jean_brat: you need 1) to make sure your N900 acts like a usb host device Jul 09 18:58:33 you do that with hen Jul 09 18:58:42 and 2) you need to actually make stuff fit in the n900 Jul 09 18:58:45 you do that with the adapter Jul 09 18:59:05 thanks kerio, I'm off Jul 09 18:59:09 need a break Jul 09 18:59:15 nooooo Jul 09 18:59:20 i need answers first Jul 09 18:59:29 where could i buy a F-F adapter? Jul 09 18:59:45 ebay Jul 09 18:59:58 DAFAQ, look at dealextreme link above, or use fleabay or aunt google Jul 09 18:59:58 Search for double-ended Jul 09 19:00:08 SpeedEvil: ¬.¬ Jul 09 19:00:15 anyway Jul 09 19:00:35 does anyone know if the galaxys2's usb host adapter was sold separately? Jul 09 19:00:38 because a friend of mine has one Jul 09 19:00:43 i might steal it Jul 09 19:01:32 kerio do you have a broken motherboard around or so? Jul 09 19:01:40 RiD: nope Jul 09 19:01:45 well, then nvm Jul 09 19:03:32 kerio: meanwhile those adapters are available in every other electronics shop, also at your hometown Jul 09 19:03:46 DocScrutinizer05: it's definetely available in my hometown Jul 09 19:03:53 it's Rome, ffs Jul 09 19:04:04 but i'm not there Jul 09 19:04:28 i'm on holiday, and the closest electronics shop is probably... Jul 09 19:04:30 well, in Rome Jul 09 19:04:35 so no Jul 09 19:04:46 but i found an USB A-A adapter for 4.40€ shipped Jul 09 19:04:48 well, do you think WE know where to get such adapter in the australian outback? Jul 09 19:04:49 from the netherlands Jul 09 19:04:59 so yay! Jul 09 19:05:48 now... should i actually buy it? Jul 09 19:05:58 is it actually usable without a powered usb HUB? Jul 09 19:06:18 up to 200mA yes Jul 09 19:07:14 and with new h-e-n version you even got my awesome warnings if you try to pull more than 200 Jul 09 19:07:25 so i would only be able to use it for small usb drives and mouses/keyboards Jul 09 19:07:46 or for self-powered stuff, but where would i find something like that on the go? Jul 09 19:07:53 it seems most memory sticks need less than 200 Jul 09 19:08:50 kerio: yeah, and how would you intentionally break kernel ABI while on holiday. Honestly sometimes I don't think you really want your questions get answered Jul 09 19:09:07 i mostly like trolling Jul 09 19:09:29 it's not my fault :( Jul 09 19:09:30 well, it is Jul 09 19:10:09 kerio: you only got a limited contingent of useless silly questions to ask. If it's used up nobody will answer *any* of your questions anymore Jul 09 19:10:15 D: Jul 09 19:10:19 does it recharge with time? Jul 09 19:10:30 no Jul 09 19:10:46 or at least very very slowly Jul 09 19:11:01 hm, can i get some kind of potion to recharge it quickly? Jul 09 19:11:09 and are these questions draining the question pool? Jul 09 19:11:36 pling, pling, another two off the account Jul 09 19:11:48 dammit! Jul 09 19:12:21 /me see's kerio's silly-question-tokens jar half empty Jul 09 19:12:45 s/^ // maybe? Jul 09 19:20:59 StyXman: maybe because he didn't post a bitcoin address for it yet Jul 09 19:54:55 hrmpf, qtmobilehotspot requires rootsh Jul 09 19:55:01 what's up with all this bullshit requirements Jul 09 19:55:18 why can't developers just find out what's the *good* method of running stuff as root? :/ Jul 09 20:05:49 i keep pushing the "upgrade" button but i keep not seeing KP51 :c Jul 09 20:11:26 I wonder if anyone here knows why SSL connections always fail in scratchbox Jul 09 20:11:32 it's driving me crazy Jul 09 20:30:36 http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-09/samsung-wins-u-k-apple-ruling-over-not-as-cool-galaxy-tablet.html Jul 09 20:31:20 samsung isn't as cool as apple? :) Jul 09 20:31:39 haha Jul 09 20:33:37 Does someone can say me if pr1.3 contain an updated pyside package ? (didn't have any n9) Jul 09 20:35:29 don't you mean n900? Jul 09 20:35:40 nope just wrong channel :) Jul 09 20:35:45 i mean n9 on harmattan Jul 09 20:35:46 oic Jul 09 20:35:52 i ve an n900 and n950 :) Jul 09 20:38:55 khertan i envy you Jul 09 20:40:12 RiD: to be honest n950 have to much problem to be a phone to use everyday Jul 09 20:43:15 khertan: want to sell the N950? Jul 09 20:43:25 luke-jr: i can't Jul 09 20:43:29 lame Jul 09 20:47:33 khertan: what kind of issues? Jul 09 20:48:18 Corsac: losing network that require a reboot ...and worst today i got, was a nice screen displaying : Cleaning Device, Please wait Jul 09 20:49:07 :P Jul 09 20:51:25 ouh, nice… Jul 09 20:56:14 for the moment i trying to identify what app leak battery when device idle Jul 09 21:37:13 hello fellas. Jul 09 21:37:49 hi Jul 09 21:38:07 jusk quick question: can someone please point me what's the path where angry birds for N9 store the saved data, puntuations etc? Jul 09 21:38:41 puntuations? :o Jul 09 21:39:02 sorry, scores xD not my native language Jul 09 21:39:49 i don't want to create a thread on tmo just to ask this, i'ts bloated enough as it is Jul 09 21:41:09 i want to flash my device and don't want to loose all the data Jul 09 21:42:24 hmm n9 is harmattan, but on N900 it's /opt/rovio/ iirc Jul 09 21:45:32 i will try that, thanks MrPingu. but nobody here with a N9? Jul 09 21:46:04 We have a special harmattan channel ;) Jul 09 21:46:32 Sure there are some users here who own n9 too Jul 09 21:47:08 really? real irc noob here :p whats the channel? #harmattan? Jul 09 21:47:50 #harmattan Jul 09 21:47:53 yeah ;) Jul 09 21:48:19 goka, I am not the best with irc either, so don't worry Jul 09 21:49:08 :-D Jul 09 21:55:19 w00t picked up a spare N900 for $200 Jul 09 21:55:51 luke-jr: ha! picked up a used (but barely) n900 for 150€ Jul 09 21:56:02 luke-jr: :) Jul 09 22:04:54 Hmm why are my earphones detected as tv-out? Jul 09 22:05:41 ah after 3rd time plugging in it detected it as earphones... Jul 09 22:45:09 oh wow Jul 09 22:45:18 someoen bought my n900 screen for $50 :) Jul 09 22:45:55 it was me Jul 09 22:45:57 no, not me Jul 09 22:46:04 heh Jul 09 22:46:06 Macer, congrats Jul 09 22:46:16 my first ebay sale lol Jul 09 22:49:58 it was the whole screen and assembly tho Jul 09 22:50:09 so i probably sold it cheap :) considering the scarcity of them Jul 09 22:52:47 i wonder if anyone here has experience with file headers and so on to find out data packed with zlib inside of them D: Jul 09 23:11:12 errr Jul 09 23:20:29 haha Jul 09 23:20:44 i sent an email to nokia about my lumia 900 a month ago Jul 09 23:20:47 finally got a response Jul 09 23:20:52 Nokia is total shit Jul 09 23:21:11 they still make the best quality hardware but the company itself is absolute garbage Jul 09 23:21:58 What was the Jul 09 23:22:13 Macer last good phone was n900 Jul 09 23:22:21 well, maybe n9 too but they failed at comercializing it Jul 09 23:22:46 heh Jul 09 23:22:49 e7 was nice too Jul 09 23:22:51 :) Jul 09 23:22:58 hardwarewise they make awesome stuff Jul 09 23:23:01 n808! Jul 09 23:23:08 42MP of win? Jul 09 23:23:12 they have the best hardware .... as far as quality... minus..... Jul 09 23:23:16 falling off usb ports Jul 09 23:23:18 and breaking modems Jul 09 23:23:23 but that's asia's fault :-P Jul 09 23:30:51 * Muelli still has a broken modem phone :- Jul 09 23:30:58 \ Jul 09 23:35:13 :/ Jul 09 23:39:17 http://www.reichelt.de/Kippschalter/GUARD-R17-10/3/index.html?;ACTION=3;LA=2;ARTICLE=105434;GROUPID=3275;artnr=GUARD+R17-10;SID=12T1fXn38AAAIAAAu8sgMbe0fe10bae7243de7c39d0da02514df2 Jul 09 23:39:54 mhm .. planning automatic plant watering for the balcony .. i think i always wanted such a security switch :) Jul 09 23:42:31 cehteh: I thought that was a stapler when I first looked at it. Jul 09 23:42:53 :/ .. just figured out that it wont fit into the case Jul 10 01:15:14 Meanwhile: Criminals Distribute Infected USB Sticks In Parking Lot Jul 10 01:16:58 haha Jul 10 01:20:03 robbiethe1st, ping? Jul 10 01:22:45 RST38h: Always works well. Jul 10 01:25:53 ping Jul 10 01:25:56 ~ping Jul 10 01:25:57 ~pong Jul 10 02:39:03 hi i am working ppp0 is always on my internet connections? Jul 10 02:39:12 hi i am wondering what ppp0 is always on my internet connections? Jul 10 02:39:25 Point-to-point protocol Jul 10 02:39:49 Used for some dsl type connections, though is usually dealt with by your modem Jul 10 02:40:39 i am was wondering if it was open port or someone could connect into my device using it Jul 10 02:41:19 No, I'm pretty sure not Jul 10 02:43:21 it has next to a dot three semi archs and a dot Jul 10 02:44:06 what is symbol called Jul 10 02:44:57 My phone uses something like that for wifi point-to-point networking **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 10 02:59:58 2012